I didn't mean that you did. Sorry for the confusion. I'm just saying, it seems awfully strong at least on surface level. People will probably do a ton of analysis, math based and otherwise, in the coming months to discover where the cheese is. I'm just now looking at what high toughness good save wounds cost in general. And if you can get T7 3+/5++ wounds that fly and fight pretty damn well for a bit over 10 points a pop, you'll probably see quite a few of those ^_^
That's on me for not being clear, sorry! It is looking good for the Heldrake though. No more firing arcs/fixed moves to worry about, it is both easier (no penalties to hitting it meaning you can shoot normally at it and charge it) and harder (more wounds/Toughness/an armor save) to destroy, and it is a super fast melee unit that at worst can be used to tie up enemy units as early as the first turn. I'm guessing it will only have 3 max Attacks so that it's not so much a pure damage dealer as it is more of a complete package - it does decently to good in every aspect and is hard to kill for its points while being hyper mobile. 30" base move is...amazing.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
Poor advice as Heldrake isn´t Fast Attack. (It´s a flyer so you can take a detachment of them without any taxes).
Therion wrote: How many attacks do vehicles with * for A get in close combat? Both the Heldrake and Chaos Land Raider dataslates show * for A value but the degrade box doesn't show A anywhere. Is it outside the camera shot?
The stock Heldrake looks awfully strong for me. T7 12 wounds, 3+ save, 5+ invulnerable, flies, shoots, fights in close combat and does D3 wounds per hit. For 138 points. And it heals one wound automatically at the start of every turn. It means that each T7 3+/5+ wound costs about 10 points each if you assume it heals even once. Sounds pretty efficient to me, even with multiwound guns all over the place.
Like, for comparison, the LR is T8 16 wounds with no invulnerable and no healing and costs about three times as much kitted up. It does have that 2+ save though, and carries some dudes.
I would be more hyped about quaranteed T1 charge on anywhere.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
It's a flyer not fast attack. Meaning, as Daemons have next to no flyers, I'll probably have to buy a third drake...
Either way, KDK had access to them. So what happens here now that there is no KDK...
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
Poor advice as Heldrake isn´t Fast Attack. (It´s a flyer so you can take a detachment of them without any taxes).
It wasn't advice. I've seen about 10% of the leaks so I'm not sure what's what. I just wasn't seeing the problem since as far as I understood he was worried he can't use them. I still don't see the problem, by the way. Thanks for stopping by though.
tneva82 wrote: I would be more hyped about quaranteed T1 charge on anywhere.
Anyway is the 138 before or after guns are added?
I presume it's before weapons, but the thing doesn't have that many weapons and the stock one is pretty meh so I guess it'll stay really cheap.
A lot of the points disparity will be the amount of weapons each has - the Heldrake has 1, the LR has potentially 5 (2 TL Lascannons, TLHB, Havoc, Combiweapon) and can use every one of them on a different target, the heldrake is going to ruin someone's day, but only one or two units a turn, and it doesn't hit as hard as the LR's combined firepower
I'm sad to see vehicle upgrades greatly reduced, they're either "baked in" like Smoke Launchers or picked from a reduced list like Havocs. Where's our Dirge Caster option?
A detachment simply has to share some keywords. So a detachment could all say "chaos" and you're golden. Or, for more perks you could make sure everything in the detachment has "khorne" as a keyword as well for more synergies.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
Poor advice as Heldrake isn´t Fast Attack. (It´s a flyer so you can take a detachment of them without any taxes).
It wasn't advice. I've seen about 10% of the leaks so I'm not sure what's what. I just wasn't seeing the problem since as far as I understood he was worried he can't use them. I still don't see the problem, by the way. Thanks for stopping by though.
The problem is that I only have 2 Heldrakes and you need 3 flyers for the formation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: A detachment simply he to share some keywords. So a detachment could all say "chaos" and you're golden. Or, for more perks you could make sure everything in the detachment has "khorne" as a keyword as well for more synergies.
Take what you want and enjoy
I just can't force myself to take something sub-optimal. If just taking 1 Heldrake will ruin the bonus - I'll treat them as unusable.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
It's a flyer not fast attack. Meaning, as Daemons have next to no flyers, I'll probably have to buy a third drake...
Either way, KDK had access to them. So what happens here now that there is no KDK...
Run a CSM detachment as well I guess? You can run them with CSM as far as I can see.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
It's a flyer not fast attack. Meaning, as Daemons have next to no flyers, I'll probably have to buy a third drake...
Either way, KDK had access to them. So what happens here now that there is no KDK...
Run a CSM detachment as well I guess? You can run them with CSM as far as I can see.
Fk everything to do with space marines. I don't want humans in my daemon army.
I am guessing you don't know that heldrakes are literally a space marine in a flyer that has been twisted by the warp?
You already have space marines in your army.
Space Marine vehicles are listed as "does not include wargear", does this include weapons as well? Land Raiders (and other vehicles) get pretty expensive when you add their weapons to the "base cost".
Weazel wrote: Space Marine vehicles are listed as "does not include wargear", does this include weapons as well? Land Raiders (and other vehicles) get pretty expensive when you add their weapons to the "base cost".
Also, anyone got stats for Demolisher Cannon?
Yeah, you need to buy weapons seperately. Razorbacks getting quite costly with their low transport capacity.
Weazel wrote: Space Marine vehicles are listed as "does not include wargear", does this include weapons as well? Land Raiders (and other vehicles) get pretty expensive when you add their weapons to the "base cost".
Also, anyone got stats for Demolisher Cannon?
All weapons have points costs, some might be 0 but you still have to pay for them if the book tells you to.
Basically, yes, a Land Raider has a base price then you have to add on the price for each of its guns even if they are a part of its stock equipment.
The Land Raider gets pricey because it puts out a lot of heavy firepower and can move and shoot without suffering the penalty for to-hit rolls with heavy weapons. It is also one of the most durable units we've seen so far and is a transport. It's safe to say the points cost is high for good reason!
My Spartan Assault Tank is looking pretty bloody amazing right now, if it retains its 25 model limit... Can take 5 termies, a lord of contagion or Typhus, a sorcerer and a squad of Plague Marines in it...
Rippy wrote: I am guessing you don't know that heldrakes are literally a space marine in a flyer that has been twisted by the warp?
You already have space marines in your army.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the more expensive vehicles, because their powerlevel (and durability) has increased significantly. But good to know that price increases are expected. Hopefully with other armies as well. I don't mind a more infantry focused game...
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: A detachment simply he to share some keywords. So a detachment could all say "chaos" and you're golden. Or, for more perks you could make sure everything in the detachment has "khorne" as a keyword as well for more synergies.
Take what you want and enjoy
I just can't force myself to take something sub-optimal. If just taking 1 Heldrake will ruin the bonus - I'll treat them as unusable.
There hasn't been any mentions yet of keyword related bonuses, so it might be that they only come in codexes (like in AoS), meaning that for many armies the stricter keywords are just prospects of far future.
Oh dang, all SoB can deny the witch - that seems good. It's not going to happen often, but you'll eventually roll 5's and 6's and deny low-end powers.
Low end that rolled low...I mean average for 2d6 is 7. He needs to roll 5 or less on 2d6 for 1d6 to be able to be greater...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and lol indeed as somebody said before rhino is tougher than dreadnought. T7, 3+, W10 vs T7, 3+, W8. Wonder what designers were thinking there.
Oh dang, all SoB can deny the witch - that seems good. It's not going to happen often, but you'll eventually roll 5's and 6's and deny low-end powers.
Low end that rolled low...I mean average for 2d6 is 7. He needs to roll 5 or less on 2d6 for 1d6 to be able to be greater...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and lol indeed as somebody said before rhino is tougher than dreadnought. T7, 3+, W10 vs T7, 3+, W8. Wonder what designers were thinking there.
in fairness the rhino IS supposed to be famed for it's durability.
that and I suspect thats a play testing issue, rhinos proably where getting popped early and fast, inflicting too many casualities, leading to GW to toughen them up in response
That and....it's a tank. A Rhino isn't supposed to be a paperweight that stops working thanks to a stiff breeze, that's why we've seen things like Venoms and Annihilation Barges have lower Toughness and Wounds than the Dreadnought. Rhinos are the go-to transport for Space Marines - you know, the Imperium's super soldiers - and it's about time they bloody well started to play like it.
Some of the points are really wonky. Like the Devilfish. If I've read the blurry scans correctly, it's 101 points. Why 101? What about it required that extra point over 100? Is it vastly undercosted at 100 so they just had to push it to 101. There's another one on there that's 97 points. Why 97 and not 100, or 95?
It doesn't degrade if charge does mortal wound on a 4+ Crushing claws are Sx2 AP-3 damage 3 Scything Talons S: User AP-3 damage 3 Bonemace S8 Ap-1 d3 damage. If with 2 weapons +1 attacks 2 Scything talons reroll 1 to hit.
Thank you.
That doesn't seem too bad. The save could probably stand to be better, but T7 W8 is better than he used to be. Still, depends on the multi-damage weapons now render all those extra wounds moot.
BrianDavion wrote: in fairness the rhino IS supposed to be famed for it's durability.
that and I suspect thats a play testing issue, rhinos proably where getting popped early and fast, inflicting too many casualities, leading to GW to toughen them up in response
And dreadnoughts aren't supposed to be paper thin either. Actually logically they SHOULD be pretty damn tough seeing they are host to one of the chapters heroes. Loss of which is grave loss indeed. Dreadnoughts shouldn't be dime in a dozen models.
BrianDavion wrote: in fairness the rhino IS supposed to be famed for it's durability.
that and I suspect thats a play testing issue, rhinos proably where getting popped early and fast, inflicting too many casualities, leading to GW to toughen them up in response
And dreadnoughts aren't supposed to be paper thin either. Actually logically they SHOULD be pretty damn tough seeing they are host to one of the chapters heroes. Loss of which is grave loss indeed. Dreadnoughts shouldn't be dime in a dozen models.
T7 is still pretty damn tough in the whole context of the units.
But if not, it's weird unless they have some sort of a calculator (toughness = 4 points per point, plus strength equals 5 points per point) etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RoninXiC wrote: I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?
It's for bonuses, some things will only grant these bonuses for keyword X, infantry keyword can go in transports etc
That doesn't seem too bad. The save could probably stand to be better, but T7 W8 is better than he used to be. Still, depends on the multi-damage weapons now render all those extra wounds moot.
It's a bit of a weird one. For anything that wasn't Strength 4 or 5, it's harder to wound than before which makes a difference (lascannons) but variable Damage means heavy weapons tend to be better against it than before. On the flip side, even if they wound on 5s now as opposed to 6s, having to get through double the Wounds means the Carnifex is either better off or the same against small arms fire - takes the same number of bolter hits to kill it, but double the lasgun hits thanks to the T7. If Strength 6-7 still sticks around a lot then that's another buff for the Carnifex as those now wound on 5s and 4s as opposed to 4s and 3s. The kicker is that those multiple Damage weapons tend to be much more expensive than they used to be, so I'd class it a sideways or slightly positive shift for its survival rate.
We'll have to wait and see how much its weapons are, if they aren't too expensive then the Carnifex looks like it will be in a good place. Slightly faster than before, has 5 Attacks all the time now if you run dual close combat weapons, the Crushing Claws look to be nastier than before with Strength 12 Damage 3, etc. I'm not sure replacing D3 S9 Hammer of Wrath with a 4+ mortal wound is a good trade, but it looks like Carnifexes might be the cheapest they've been in nearly a decade.
RoninXiC wrote: I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?
Also Strategems, certain Strategems will be for certain keywords.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.
S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.
GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.
Im sure (hopeful that) in a yeat or two we'll get Custodes style grav raiders that'll make current land raiders seem trivial both rules (and hopefully) model wise...
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.
S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.
GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.
Im sure (hopeful that) in a yeat or two we'll get Custodes style grav raiders that'll make current land raiders seem trivial both rules (and hopefully) model wise...
This is another good point, I am sure they will release a Primaris style Land Raider that will have the stats the normal land raider "Should" (as seen with normal marines stats compared with Primaris*)
soooo...where are those sweet sweet leaks that will lighten up my tuesday?^^ Esp. Skitarii and Cult Mech...or lets just call em AdMech should get some attention.
RoninXiC wrote: I have a question regarding the faction keywords and/vs keywords.
What exactly is the difference? Is the first "just" for the deteachment building?
Faction keywords affect list building yes, but also a few other things.
Transports are keyed by faction keywords, so only Tyranids will be able to board a Tyrannocyte.
Some stratagems will be tied to certain factions, but can only be used if your army is consistently made of that faction. For example, if you take Blood Angels with GK allies, you could use Adeptus Astartes stratagems, but not any specific Blood Angels or Grey Knights ones.
CSM have a special rule that gives them bonus combat attacks against units with the Imperium keyword. I expect to see a wide variety of similar rules that fulfill a similar purpose to the old Hatred or Preferred Enemy USRs.
Eh, the Land Raider actually seems usable now. Before, you either sacrificed the guns to move or sacrificed the mobility to fire the guns. Now you can do both and its firepower doubled.
From what I understand using very basic math and rounding averages up, it takes roughly 6 unsaved Lascannon wounds to destroy a Land Raider assuming average rolls, which would mean you need to inflict about 9 Lascannon wounds before saves. To inflict 9 Lascannon wounds, as they wound on 3s you'll want about 13 Lascannon hits. Previously, it would generally take about 12 Lascannon hits to destroy a Land Raider - a third of them would strip a hull point and it had 4 hull points, but that's not accounting for cover (not that you could get it that easily for something as big as a Land Raider). Mind you, that's average rolls; the potential is there now to roll high on the D6 Damage rolls, just as the potential was there to roll a 6 on the vehicle damage chart and one-shot it. Basically, it's roughly the same against Lascannons.
I don't mind that at all, Missile Launchers getting a boost to their anti-tank role isn't a bad thing seeing as....let's be honest, how many Space Marine armies did you see using Missile Launchers before?
Oh, those Necron leaks confirm Gauss Flayers carried by Necron Warriors are -1 AP, not -2 as was initially said. That's fair, Gauss gets its anti-armor usefulness it had before and it can still wound anything. Way more balanced than entire army of -2 AP 13 point models that come back to life on a 5+ each turn!
Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.
Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.
That is crazy good.
That seems very good, surely it must be 2d6? I haven't read that rule yet.
Oh dang, all SoB can deny the witch - that seems good. It's not going to happen often, but you'll eventually roll 5's and 6's and deny low-end powers.
Low end that rolled low...I mean average for 2d6 is 7. He needs to roll 5 or less on 2d6 for 1d6 to be able to be greater...
.
I Played a game of AOS the other day, rolled in successive turns 3, 4, 3, 5, trying to get a target 6 spell off.... my opponents rolls were not much better. Its a bit of a meh ability but may be useful now and again - maybe their will be some bonuses from somewhere to the deny roll.
Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.
That is crazy good.
Uhhuh. Don't bother firing with meltas at them.
Though yet another example of GW changing style of wargear/weapon/etc from 7th ed even if it would be possible to have similar feel as before.
Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.
That is crazy good.
That seems very good, surely it must be 2d6? I haven't read that rule yet.
Doesn't look like it based on the Catacomb Command Barge rules. Gives an example and everything:
(for example, if this model receives 4 damage and rolls 3 or less the damage is ignored)
I will say though this is Google Translated so it may be missing some nuance.
Whenever this model suffers damage due to an unsaved wound, roll a D6.
If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored.
That is crazy good.
That seems very good, surely it must be 2d6? I haven't read that rule yet.
Doesn't look like it based on the Catacomb Command Barge rules. Gives an example and everything:
(for example, if this model receives 4 damage and rolls 3 or less the damage is ignored)
I will say though this is Google Translated so it may be missing some nuance.
Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?
Also, Celestine...is it just me or is she ridiculously good again? Gives nearby Sororitas 5+ invulnerable saves, gives out a free bonus Act of Faith each turn, has 11 effective Wounds - 4 of which can respawn each turn - and has a 5/6 chance of coming back to life with a full 7 Wounds, 2+ armor and 4+ invulnerable saves are now shared by her and her Geminae, her Geminae have 3 Strength 3 -3 AP attacks each that hit on 3s, Celestine has 6 Strength 7 -3 AP Damage 2 attacks that hit on 2s, etc.
She looks like a nutcase....AND she has the Character keyword so she can't be targeted unless she's the closest visible unit. Wow.
Caederes wrote: Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?
There is a discussion re this on the Necron 8th ed thread - its interesting - it provides protection against powerful attacks but not weaker ones.
Caederes wrote: Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?
Well that's the ideal weapon. OTOH any dam1 weapon ignores it.
Against lascannon it seems to be about 40% ignored. Against d3 about 1/6 or so(note these from simulations. Didn't calculate exact odds).
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool rule and luckily the biggest model to have Quantum Shielding is the Ghost Ark/Doomsday Ark which probably won't have too many Wounds. Still, it seems to really penalize people who use Lascannons for anti-tank but not so much those that take massed Missile Pods/Launchers and the like. It's very weird. I guess it's to deincentivize loading up only on "really" heavy weapons? The fact that it's still random will balance it but I do feel sorry for anyone that thinks running an Imperial Knight into a Necron vehicle will work out for them Titanic feet ahoy!
Hi, I am completely new to WH40K. I will buy the new core box but with the new Primaris do you think there will be new starter boxes for the different chapters or even for other armies? I will probably want to expand the space marines and the death guard coming in the core but I don't know if I should go for already existing boxes or better wait for new releases.
soulforged wrote: Hi, I am completely new to WH40K. I will buy the new core box but with the new Primaris do you think there will be new starter boxes for the different chapters or even for other armies? I will probably want to expand the space marines and the death guard coming in the core but I don't know if I should go for already existing boxes or better wait for new releases.
You can be 100% sure there will be new releases for Primaris. They are new poster boys for GW. If you want multipose models with many options then after starter box I suggest to wait for new boxes for starter units and completly new units.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it appears the Land Raider in 8th, if converted back to 7th, would have 1 less Hull Point.
S8 Krak vs AV14 in 7th -vs- S8 Krak Missiles vs T8 W16 Sv2+ = 24 hits in 7th, and just over 18 in 8th, to kill the Land Raider.
GW succeeded in making the pinnacle of the Imperium's tanks weaker. Top job.
This? This is better characterized (as best one can across different editions) as krak missiles getting a buff, rather than some kind of Land Raider nerf.
Krak has kind of been in a lackluster middle ground for a while. Due to average rates of fire, S7 is usually better at busting AV13 and due to the breakpoint, S9+ (or rending S6 and above) are better at dealing with AV14.
Krak was just sort of left in limbo, not being good against lighter vehicles and being insufficient for heavy.
Compared to 2nd Edition, the super krak had a pen roll of d6+d10+8 versus the lascannon's 3d6+0. Average roll on the krak was 17, average roll for the lascannon was 19.5. Due to the large variation in AVs during 2nd, this was actually pretty close (especially with krak having a better chance of nailing a max roll due to higher variance from two dice). But when AV got truncated and damage got removed, for 3rd's system, the breakpoints ended up leaving the single-shot S8 krak missile in a bad way going forward. Seems it was always outshined in each edition with more specialized weapons getting picked due to a combo of lackluster profile and price differences.
In 8th, it got a boost to actually be pretty close to the lascannon in terms of anti-tank capability (with it being basically equivalent where T5-7 is concerned). So in general, most tanks are more vulnerable to krak now, and that's fine.
Because while a krak missile now rivals the lascannon's anti-tank performance (though still comes up short on heavier stuff) we are no longer seeing, say, assault cannons beating either out for average armour penetration. Best of all, look at how meltas stack up now. Still kills faster than krak, but compared to how fast it could immolate a tank in 6th/7th, it is a lot slower to kill these days. And with transports getting pricier, it will be harder to deliver those alpha-strike melta squads that made vehicles largely worthless.
So basically, what you've noticed is a krak buff, not a raider nerf. Working as intended if you ask me.
Models without a save can't get save modifiers applied to them. So giving things a 7+ save means cover and other armour mods can affect them without giving them a save by default in the open.
So a 7+ becomes a 6+ in cover, and with most small arms being AP -0 that means they will actually get some use out of cover.
Basically, think of 7+ as the new unarmoured save. If a model lacked a save entirely, then no amount of modifiers could give it one.
soulforged wrote: Hi, I am completely new to WH40K. I will buy the new core box but with the new Primaris do you think there will be new starter boxes for the different chapters or even for other armies? I will probably want to expand the space marines and the death guard coming in the core but I don't know if I should go for already existing boxes or better wait for new releases.
You can be 100% sure there will be new releases for Primaris. They are new poster boys for GW. If you want multipose models with many options then after starter box I suggest to wait for new boxes for starter units and completly new units.
Yeah, we already know about the Dreadnaught and some kind of tank (blurry pic a few pages ago), maybe a Predator variant.
Deathguard has also new kits coming, we've seen a few of them in the initial trailer for them.
Other factions already have Start Collecting! boxes, I'm sure they will stay around, maybe even will get repackaged with new rules.
this is done so that there can't be any discussion about positive modifiers to saves, for example cover. A +1 save to a 7+ would give a 6+, but you could argue that a +1 to a - sv would not grant any save.
Maybe allows them to work with Save modifiers to gain a save after at least +1.
Similiar to AoS maybe, if a unit has Save '-', it can't ever gain a +1 from various sources. Only if they have at least a '6+', they can make a save roll.
It's a rule ported over from Age of Sigmar where whoever finishes setting up first chooses who takes the first turn, but in 40K it does seem to be a bit more punishing considering there's no random player turn order and shooting is so much deadlier. It makes sense from a thematic stand point and apparently lines up with a 2nd or 3rd Edition rule?
Latro_ wrote: Anyone notice a massive thing about the missions, you get the first turn if you finish setting your army up first.
Perhaps this is baked in MSU punishment? problem i see is it hurts hordy/non elite armies a fair bit... my ork army isnt ever going first,
Only hurts some MSU, because lets say you have two 5man space marines in a rhino. that is one deploy. Then you can have some deepstriking double 5 man squads in drop pods. All of a sudden you have a very fast deploy but a lot of units, ie MSU.
Latro_ wrote: Anyone notice a massive thing about the missions, you get the first turn if you finish setting your army up first.
Perhaps this is baked in MSU punishment? problem i see is it hurts hordy/non elite armies a fair bit... my ork army isnt ever going first,
Only hurts some MSU, because lets say you have two 5man space marines in a rhino. that is one deploy. Then you can have some deepstriking double 5 man squads in drop pods. All of a sudden you have a very fast deploy but a lot of units, ie MSU.
i would say this mainly hurts gunlines, more than MSU. Because they want everything on the table on turn 1 ready to fire.
makes perfect sense to me, mounted or drop pod armies generally represent forces that would get the drop (heh) on their opponents, and should therefore go first
Caederes wrote: Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?
Also, Celestine...is it just me or is she ridiculously good again? Gives nearby Sororitas 5+ invulnerable saves, gives out a free bonus Act of Faith each turn, has 11 effective Wounds - 4 of which can respawn each turn - and has a 5/6 chance of coming back to life with a full 7 Wounds, 2+ armor and 4+ invulnerable saves are now shared by her and her Geminae, her Geminae have 3 Strength 3 -3 AP attacks each that hit on 3s, Celestine has 6 Strength 7 -3 AP Damage 2 attacks that hit on 2s, etc.
She looks like a nutcase....AND she has the Character keyword so she can't be targeted unless she's the closest visible unit. Wow.
Celestine is a bit awesome Seraphim with her will be 5+ Invuln, re-rolling.
Also it looks like you can use the Acts of Faith on her as well!
Maybe allows them to work with Save modifiers to gain a save after at least +1.
Similiar to AoS maybe, if a unit has Save '-', it can't ever gain a +1 from various sources. Only if they have at least a '6+', they can make a save roll.
Of course not like 7+ was needed in 3th to 7th ed yet - saves got 6+ cover...
no, 7+ save is going to be common. It means no save unless they get a + to save being in cover. EG 7+ save, goes in to cover that provides +2 cover. they get 5+ save.
Caederes wrote: Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?
How is it good? Barring things which used to be D weapons, it's a huge nerf compared to the old AV13 it gave. Against a lascannon it's effectively a 5++, and against anything doing D3 damage it's a 6++. Considering how ridiculously fragile the Command Barge and Annihilation Barge are, I doubt this will help them live past turn 1 - they will just melt to autocannon equivalents.
Caederes wrote: Yeah, that sounds insane. It basically means that you have a 5/6 chance of completely ignoring the Damage dealt by an Imperial Knights' Reaper Chainsword. That can't be right, surely?
How is it good? Barring things which used to be D weapons, it's a huge nerf compared to the old AV13 it gave. Against a lascannon it's effectively a 5++, and against anything doing D3 damage it's a 6++. Considering how ridiculously fragile the Command Barge and Annihilation Barge are, I doubt this will help them live past turn 1 - they will just melt to autocannon equivalents.
Because it's just been leaked... and we must overreact!! Argh!!
Through Google translation then a little applied common sense on the translations the powers of the C'tan appear to be:
Range 24
1: Roll a dice, on a 2+ do 1d3 mortal wounds.
2: Roll a dice, if it's greater than wounds characteristic (I don't know if it means base or remaining) one model dies.
3: For each model in the unit roll D6, for each 6 do a mortal wound.
So, based on where we are now, what kind of armies are we expecting to see? The detachments allow for all super-heavy, all-flyer, all-vehicle, all-monster, all-horde, whatever lists really. Are we entering an era where a tournament army is just 12 vehicles and no infantry whatsoever, or do you guys think there's something in the rules that we're missing that will force everyone to go balanced between infantry and big gribblies?
And I know Knight armies existed before, but a lot of people, especially casuals, hated them, and they were mostly the exception, not the norm.
Personally, I don't mind if an army consists of 10 superfriends, or 10 vehicles, or 200 infantry models, but if there's that big differences in style then the balance has to be near perfect for everyone to enjoy the games.
changemod wrote: Through Google translation then a little applied common sense on the translations the powers of the C'tan appear to be:
Range 24
1: Roll a dice, on a 2+ do 1d3 mortal wounds.
2: Roll a dice, if it's greater than wounds characteristic (I don't know if it means base or remaining) one model dies.
3: For each model in the unit roll D6, for each 6 do a mortal wound.
It's the wound stat
antimatter meteor: on a 2+, closest enemy in sight gets d3 mortal wounds
time arrow: choose an unit within 24 and roll a d6, if the result is more than the wound stat of the unit's models, remove a model
sismic assault: roll a d6 for each model of the closet unit within 24 of the ctan, for each 6 is a remove
Therion wrote: So, based on where we are now, what kind of armies are we expecting to see? The detachments allow for all super-heavy, all-flyer, all-vehicle, all-monster, all-horde, whatever lists really. Are we entering an era where a tournament army is just 12 vehicles and no infantry whatsoever, or do you guys think there's something in the rules that we're missing that will force everyone to go balanced between infantry and big gribblies?
My suspicion is that the top army for a few months will end up being Tyranids or GSC as people learn to adapt to assault being so strong. Then I think Eldar will take over again, because they always do.
In all seriousness, I can't see all vehicle lists doing well at all; vehicles are tough now, but their damage output is middling compared to equivalent infantry units and they can be locked in assault. My hunch would be MSU infantry bubble wrapping vehicles is going to be the way to go.
no, 7+ save is going to be common. It means no save unless they get a + to save being in cover. EG 7+ save, goes in to cover that provides +2 cover. they get 5+ save.
no, 7+ save is going to be common. It means no save unless they get a + to save being in cover. EG 7+ save, goes in to cover that provides +2 cover. they get 5+ save.
And thanks to you also good sir.
sorry, jumped the gun and missed the other dudes who replied first
Wtf?!
By the looks of that pic, the Monolith appears to be almost 400 points.
Surely I'm misreading that very blurry text (after all, it also looks as if Immortals are... 8 points? That can't be right)
Consider all the space marine leaks mostly relevant and you'll have higher morale.
I don't see it in the leaked pages, maybe there are more i don't know of?
I can only see a cost of 232.
Ah fair, though if I'm not mistaken I think some of the weapons or wargear is C'tan related? It's hard to tell which without speaking Italian, but the Transcendent C'tan is listed in the "without weapons or gear" cost area.
Can someone explain me what is this Lord of War in the Space Marine list, I can't find it?
Some people are saying Land Raider Terminus Ultra but it seems unlikely: all others LR are named "Land Raider <Version>" and it was never in any SM codex if I remember correctly.
Spoletta wrote: I'm at work right now, but if you ask for specific necron rules, i can sneak a translation here and there.
its abit hard to read, but the translation of the necron resurrection orb? its under overlord page
It's been cut, but if I had to guess it it's that once per game, after having made the reanimation protocol rolls, you can make them for every infantry model of the same dinasty within X inches (probably 6) from him again
skoffs wrote: Wtf?!
By the looks of that pic, the Monolith appears to be almost 400 points.
Surely I'm misreading that very blurry text (after all, it also looks as if Immortals are... 8 points? That can't be right)
Immortals are 8 points base with mandatory 9 point guns (both options) so 17 points per model.
Monolith is Pricier because nearly everything but unupgraded infantry costs 1.5-2 times what it did in 7th. 3500 points is the new 2000 points.
I can find a weapon that translates to: "Fists of star god" Strenght: user Ap -4 damage 3
and "Scythe of the nightbringer" Ap -4 d6 damage, always wounds on 2+.
Been comparing the leaks against the current codex's
Just about everything for Necrons has a higher base cost than before, while the datasheets we can see seem a little..flat?
I thought it might be due to weapon/gear choices, but Necrons are not known for their options,
Has me worried when you look at something like the CSM leak where alot of it became cheaper...
Dunno, not the biggest leak atm, will have to wait for more,
The Deceiver sounded like it had some nice tricks, allowing for teleporting units,
225p base cost, one of the few that improved.
Was hoping to see some extra range put in, but looks like they are still stuck in the 24" bubble,
With all the CC buffs in 8th, i was hoping for some options to counter.. again, early days.
Edit: Also, re-animation impossible after losing the squad? back to maxing out squad size and trying to hide survivors behind vehicles/buildings
Spoletta wrote: I'm at work right now, but if you ask for specific necron rules, i can sneak a translation here and there.
Some clarification on Zahndrekh's rules would be nice.
Might as well ask about Obyron's as well, to see how they might still interact.
Zandrek at the start of enemy turn choose a character within 12 and it can't active rules
4++
at the beginning of your turn choose a sautek infantry within 6 and add 1 to advance, charges and hit rolls
passing madness: roll a d3, choose an infantry unit within 6 at the start of the turn
1: avenge the fallen: + 1 attack
2: stop the rebellion: +1 to bs 3: sunmills? charge!: reroll charge
Obyron If killed, he can still fight in the phase (like the Wulfens, for example)
Can reroll leadership tests of Sautekh units within 6"
At the end of the movement phase you can teleport Obyron and a unit of Sautekh infantry within 6" of Zandrek
If within 3" of Zandrek he can take Zandrek's wounds
(the last two has been cut so maybe they're not complete/completely right)
Hmm, so far from the leaks I'm seeing a lot of reasons for the increased Elite slots and a lot of reasons to slap on a secondary Elite detachment.
It seems that banner bearers and the odd sergeant style character for Elite units are becoming seperate free roaming characters across the board. I suppose that's a nice thing...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, anyone else notice with the Sisters leaks in particular that the 1 Heavy per 10 rule seems to be...gone...sort of? So a 5 man squad can have a heavy and a special weapon. Neat.
no, 7+ save is going to be common. It means no save unless they get a + to save being in cover. EG 7+ save, goes in to cover that provides +2 cover. they get 5+ save.
And thanks to you also good sir.
sorry, jumped the gun and missed the other dudes who replied first
Spoletta wrote: I'm at work right now, but if you ask for specific necron rules, i can sneak a translation here and there.
Some clarification on Zahndrekh's rules would be nice.
Might as well ask about Obyron's as well, to see how they might still interact.
Zandrek at the start of enemy turn choose a character within 12 and it can't active rules
4++
at the beginning of your turn choose a sautek infantry within 6 and add 1 to advance, charges and hit rolls
passing madness: roll a d3, choose an infantry unit within 6 at the start of the turn
1: avenge the fallen: + 1 attack
2: stop the rebellion: +1 to bs 3: sunmills? charge!: reroll charge
Obyron If killed, he can still fight in the phase (like the Wulfens, for example)
Can reroll leadership tests of Sautekh units within 6"
At the end of the movement phase you can teleport Obyron and a unit of Sautekh infantry within 6" of Zandrek
If within 3" of Zandrek he can take Zandrek's wounds
(the last two has been cut so maybe they're not complete/completely right)
Does the Obyron teleport only work if Zahndrekh is on the field? That's rubbish.
Zahndrekh seems pretty bad now. Stopping an aura is amazing, but realistically if they're within 12" you're going to die, and the D3 thing only has 1 good result for most units; picking the unit then rolling makes that rule mostly worthless. Damn shame.
Lord gives reroll morale to friendly <Dynasty> models within 6".
Overlord
Overlord has a skill that gives a unit within 6" +1 to advance charge and hit rolls. The same unit cannot be affected twice in the same turn. Zhandrek too has this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Both lord and overlord have the resurrection orb.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tesla rule is the same, on a 6 to hit you roll to wound 3 times (or inflicts 3 damage, it's out of the camera unfortunately)
DarkStarSabre wrote: Hmm, so far from the leaks I'm seeing a lot of reasons for the increased Elite slots and a lot of reasons to slap on a secondary Elite detachment.
It seems that banner bearers and the odd sergeant style character for Elite units are becoming seperate free roaming characters across the board. I suppose that's a nice thing...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, anyone else notice with the Sisters leaks in particular that the 1 Heavy per 10 rule seems to be...gone...sort of? So a 5 man squad can have a heavy and a special weapon. Neat.
Lord gives reroll morale to friendly <Dynasty> models within 6".
Overlord
Overlord has a skill that gives a unit within 6" +1 to advance charge and hit rolls. The same unit cannot be affected twice in the same turn. Zhandrek too has this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Both lord and overlord have the resurrection orb.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tesla rule is the same, on a 6 to hit you roll to wound 3 times (or inflicts 3 damage, it's out of the camera unfortunately)
Thanks for this. The overlord +1 to hit - is that just in combat, or is it ballistic skill too?
Eyjio wrote:How is it good? Barring things which used to be D weapons, it's a huge nerf compared to the old AV13 it gave. Against a lascannon it's effectively a 5++, and against anything doing D3 damage it's a 6++. Considering how ridiculously fragile the Command Barge and Annihilation Barge are, I doubt this will help them live past turn 1 - they will just melt to autocannon equivalents.
Sensible Sherlock strikes swiftly!
I already figured that out. I'm just commenting on how crazy - i.e. silly - it seems that a Reaper Chainsword is less likely to hurt an Annihilation Barge than a Boltgun
Vorian wrote:
Because it's just been leaked... and we must overreact!! Argh!!
The amount of "feth off" comments I could write right now considering I'm the one normally calling people out for over-reacting is telling.
But I'll not put any down because I guess my original comment does have that vibe...meh. The moment I saw the rule I was suddenly very glad I've got plenty of Missile Launchers on my Havocs rather than Lascannons.
Lord gives reroll morale to friendly <Dynasty> models within 6".
Overlord
Overlord has a skill that gives a unit within 6" +1 to advance charge and hit rolls. The same unit cannot be affected twice in the same turn. Zhandrek too has this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Both lord and overlord have the resurrection orb.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tesla rule is the same, on a 6 to hit you roll to wound 3 times (or inflicts 3 damage, it's out of the camera unfortunately)
Thanks for this. The overlord +1 to hit - is that just in combat, or is it ballistic skill too?
So it's almost like everything has a role now and more unique unit special rules that require you to think about how your approach things differently. I like it.
It also means that you really need to think about how you build your army. Hopefully we see the return of the take all comers list and more infantry on the table given the prices we are seeing. Might be nice to mix it up.
Re Tau markerlights: if I'm reading it correctly entries 1 and 5 on the chart would apply in thr Fight phase if markerlights were placed on Overwatch. Quite possible as Tactical Drones have For the Greater Good. Might even be able to trigger Seeker and Destroyer missiles.
I also like how the first markerlight results help later ones hit as well. Eg you getting 3 down would then allow a Skyray hit with it's 2 more, rerolling 1s and negating the minus to hit on the move.
Did anyone else see the page with the Vespid on it from the leaked Tau stuff (was that posted in this thread? I can't remember) and could make out the rules? Their stats aren't too impressive from what I saw. They have a special rule but I couldn't make out what it was.
Sidstyler wrote: Did anyone else see the page with the Vespid on it from the leaked Tau stuff (was that posted in this thread? I can't remember) and could make out the rules? Their stats aren't too impressive from what I saw. They have a special rule but I couldn't make out what it was.
Essentially Deep Strike over 9" away.
It might have some bearing on the amount of units you need to set up - but probably not. I think it's included in the 'less than half in reserve' restrictions.
Sidstyler wrote: Did anyone else see the page with the Vespid on it from the leaked Tau stuff (was that posted in this thread? I can't remember) and could make out the rules? Their stats aren't too impressive from what I saw. They have a special rule but I couldn't make out what it was.
Classic new deepstrike. Enter at the end of movement phase, further than 9" from enemy,
I'm really not too worried about those force orgs that are all Heavy/Fast/Elite/Superheavy and whatnot being the default best options. The frickin' cost of heavy/special weapons and vehicles is a wonderful limiter in this regard.
I was dinking around with the BA list and so far I'm finding it very difficult to spam non-troops stuff without my army shrinking enormously. With things like Furioso Dreads being 170-200 points, and Landraiders ballooning to over 300 it's tough to spam armour. Even transport spam is hard with the increased costs. (this is a very good thing IMO)
Also, another thing I noticed is that the compared cost to get weapon X on the board seems well balanced. I pointed out a bunch of ways to try and spam LC in a Marine list and didn't find one way that was significantly better than another. Early days of course, and just the one list, but so far I'm very happy with the balance in the list. Hopefully the other lists follow suit.
Wait, do we actually know what Gauss does now?
(if anything)
That and RP(WBB) have been staples of every Necron codex since their inception.
We know that RP has returned to something similar to the 5th Ed. version, though a little better.
All I've seen for Gauss thus far is the weapon profiles (in Italian), and all that looked like was everything had an armor modifier. I mean, that's cool and all, but I'm really hoping it does something iconic, still...
I would guess that the standard game size will get larger in around the same proportion as the price hikes on the "good stuff". Resulting to "cheaper" troops while other stuff is costed relatively same.
skoffs wrote: Wait, do we actually know what Gauss does now?
(if anything)
That and RP(WBB) have been staples of every Necron codex since their inception.
We know that RP has returned to something similar to the 5th Ed. version, though a little better.
All I've seen for Gauss thus far is the weapon profiles (in Italian), and all that looked like was everything had an armor modifier. I mean, that's cool and all, but I'm really hoping it does something iconic, still...
Looks like Gauss doesn't do anything special. From the Italian leaks the Gauss Flayer (Scorticatore Gauss) is:
I've lost track of everything with all these huge leaks, love it though! Anyone heard anything about the Skitarii? I know they are combined with admech now.
skoffs wrote: Wait, do we actually know what Gauss does now?
(if anything)
That and RP(WBB) have been staples of every Necron codex since their inception.
We know that RP has returned to something similar to the 5th Ed. version, though a little better.
All I've seen for Gauss thus far is the weapon profiles (in Italian), and all that looked like was everything had an armor modifier. I mean, that's cool and all, but I'm really hoping it does something iconic, still...
Looks like Gauss doesn't do anything special. From the Italian leaks the Gauss Flayer (Scorticatore Gauss) is:
24" Rapid Fire 1 S4 AP -1 D1
Yes, it looks like Gauss is just an additional -1 ap over what the weapons should have based on it's 7th ed AP value, like a weaker version of the Primaris weapons.
skoffs wrote: Wait, do we actually know what Gauss does now?
(if anything)
That and RP(WBB) have been staples of every Necron codex since their inception.
We know that RP has returned to something similar to the 5th Ed. version, though a little better.
All I've seen for Gauss thus far is the weapon profiles (in Italian), and all that looked like was everything had an armor modifier. I mean, that's cool and all, but I'm really hoping it does something iconic, still...
I think it's just the AP thing, which to be fair is still pretty good. Last edition they had the "6 hurts anything" which all guns now have, so giving all their guns an AP value seems fair. Am I mistaken in seeing that the Gauss Blaster Immortals use is -2 AP? Yikes!
Vespid do look decent now, actually. They can put out a fairly nasty alpha strike on the first turn and their guns are much more all-purpose than they used to be. It's a similar deal with Rubric Marines; "Space Marine killers" that were inefficient at everything else, but now looking like great elite hunters in general.
IG leak pleeeeaaaase! I just want to know if my tank list is viable, I want to know about the Tank commander, and I want to know about tank orders! TANKS
skoffs wrote: Wait, do we actually know what Gauss does now?
(if anything)
That and RP(WBB) have been staples of every Necron codex since their inception.
We know that RP has returned to something similar to the 5th Ed. version, though a little better.
All I've seen for Gauss thus far is the weapon profiles (in Italian), and all that looked like was everything had an armor modifier. I mean, that's cool and all, but I'm really hoping it does something iconic, still...
Looks like it only gives better AP than average. Which to be fair, is more consistent with the lore than the traditional gauss rule.
I mean, we are talking about a high powered magnetic field that pulls apart targets at the molecular level. You'd think they would be good at piercing armor, and not randomly do things to vehicles sometimes.
skoffs wrote: Wait, do we actually know what Gauss does now?
(if anything)
That and RP(WBB) have been staples of every Necron codex since their inception.
We know that RP has returned to something similar to the 5th Ed. version, though a little better.
All I've seen for Gauss thus far is the weapon profiles (in Italian), and all that looked like was everything had an armor modifier. I mean, that's cool and all, but I'm really hoping it does something iconic, still...
Looks like Gauss doesn't do anything special. From the Italian leaks the Gauss Flayer (Scorticatore Gauss) is:
24" Rapid Fire 1 S4 AP -1 D1
Yes, but it's a basic weapon with AP -1. Interesting change is the Tesla guns are Assault 2, and, if the wording works like in AOS, the "My WIll Be Done" rule of Overlords/catacomb Barges gives them +1 to hit rolls, which MIGHT (not sure, got to check the ruling) let them get Tesla shots on 5+ to hit. There seem to be MANY different kind of claws, meaning that maybe there'll be a different way of equipping Wraiths or Flayed Ones. The Nightbringer has Fleshbane, and hits at S7 against vehicles.
Mandibles will probably be the Scarabs' weapon, and it wounds anything on 5+ or better.
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Seems a bit OP
Not really. All your opponent has to do is finish the job and systematically wipe out each squad. They're like that in the fluff too; you have to throw everything you have at them, otherwise they just keep coming back.
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Seems a bit OP
Yeah that does seem more then a bit OP, you can make your enemy miss an entire round of shooting if he tries to go after warriors. That's extremely powerfull
alleus wrote: IG leak pleeeeaaaase! I just want to know if my tank list is viable, I want to know about the Tank commander, and I want to know about tank orders! TANKS
I am dieing to see the FW Guard and Renegade stuff, get those artillery brahs!
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Seems a bit OP
It's a worse version of FNP, or "Disgusting Resilience" which Plague Marines get, because those ones can't be denied; if you wipe the unit, RP is never rolled. It's pretty good, but nowhere near OP.
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Seems a bit OP
Think of it as a mostly weaker version of FNP: You take it later so it's useless for getting to contribute in assault if killed before you can strike, the wounds count against battleshock and you can't take it at all if the unit dies.
Oh and it looks like characters can't reanimate anymore, which is tremendously lame.
Now yes, you get to keep trying each turn, but that's just as annoying for the Necron player as the opponent, because it means long winded book keeping. I can see the reanimation pseudo-phase taking nearly as long as a second shooting phase in some cases.
Honestly reanimation = FNP was the quickest and easiest solution we've ever had, and very neatly covered the confusion of what to do with character reanimation.
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Seems a bit OP
It's a worse version of FNP, or "Disgusting Resilience" which Plague Marines get, because those ones can't be denied; if you wipe the unit, RP is never rolled. It's pretty good, but nowhere near OP.
No its not "worse" - its different
DR allows you to ignore wounds, RP allows you to bring back dead models apparently ove mutiple turns
It's both worse and better. Worse because it can be negated and losses impact the morale.
Better because if you fail the role, you can try again in the following turns, and regain your warrior. A necron unit is always dangerous, even with a single model left.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yes, the overlord/zhandrek/CCB buff allows tesla to trigger on 5+.
Eyjio wrote: It's a worse version of FNP, or "Disgusting Resilience" which Plague Marines get, because those ones can't be denied; if you wipe the unit, RP is never rolled. It's pretty good, but nowhere near OP.
But FNP is once and a deal. You botch it, you are dead.
WBB you fail it, you can still come back.
(not to mention how useful repositioning of dead models can be...)
DR allows you to ignore wounds, RP allows you to bring back dead models apparently ove mutiple turns
With respect, I'm sticking with worse. There are not many multi-wound models in the necron army currently, and those that are tend to be too expensive to run in large groups. I'm expecting the same thing to happen as it did in 5th & 6th edition - units are wiped before they can possibly reanimate - in which case it is strictly worse than FNP. The only situation in which it's better is if the opponent rolls really poorly against a super elite unit.
I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system. In fact, I can just picture their grinning faces as they roll above the odds and dump half a unit back into play.....
And some game mechanisms are more for gaming sake than would be logical. Eg resolving armour after wounding. Rolling 19 dice and placing 6 figures back has a psychological impact that fnp just doesn't touch - ignoring potential repositioning shenanegans.
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?
Seems a bit OP
Think of it as a mostly weaker version of FNP: You take it later so it's useless for getting to contribute in assault if killed before you can strike, the wounds count against battleshock and you can't take it at all if the unit dies.
Oh and it looks like characters can't reanimate anymore, which is tremendously lame.
Now yes, you get to keep trying each turn, but that's just as annoying for the Necron player as the opponent, because it means long winded book keeping. I can see the reanimation pseudo-phase taking nearly as long as a second shooting phase in some cases.
Honestly reanimation = FNP was the quickest and easiest solution we've ever had, and very neatly covered the confusion of what to do with character reanimation.
Not to mention the fact that the old Reanimation was taken against every wound not death, so thats been lost also
I'm liking how each faction gets its own spin on morale/durability type mechanics, rather than just copy-pasting the same USRs everywhere. It means they play more like the fluff and can be countered the same way. Before, if a unit was Fearless it was all or nothing, and anything with FNP was only countered with high-strength/ID weapons (even infantry).
Now you have:
Marines are reliable, but not immune to retreating. Apothecaries can patch up guys or even restore important 'dead' ones.
Commissars limit IG losses when present
Necron units need to be fully obliterated or they're still a threat.
Orks won't care about losses unless their numbers are severely whittled down.
Tyranids will fall apart if their synapse units are killed off, but the Hive Mind can focus on a specific unit to keep it going longer (Catalyst).
DR allows you to ignore wounds, RP allows you to bring back dead models apparently ove mutiple turns
With respect, I'm sticking with worse. There are not many multi-wound models in the necron army currently, and those that are tend to be too expensive to run in large groups. I'm expecting the same thing to happen as it did in 5th & 6th edition - units are wiped before they can possibly reanimate - in which case it is strictly worse than FNP. The only situation in which it's better is if the opponent rolls really poorly against a super elite unit.
Disagree - I remember 5th ed - you had to really try to kill units - especuially large units. Having them cosntantly regnerate is a pain but its a intersting rule and fits the fluff perfectly.
I have 15k of Necrons, and I wouldn't say I'm annoyed at the new system, I just don't think it'll actually do very much in actual games. Fluffy, sure. More demoralising? Maybe. Worse than the 7e version? Absolutely. I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are (seriously though, look at them - it's pathetic) than I am about the change to RP.
xttz wrote: I'm liking how each faction gets its own spin on morale/durability type mechanics, rather than just copy-pasting the same USRs everywhere. It means they play more like the fluff and can be countered the same way. Before, if a unit was Fearless it was all or nothing, and anything with FNP was only countered with high-strength/ID weapons (even infantry).
Now you have:
Marines are reliable, but not immune to retreating. Apothecaries can patch up guys or even restore important 'dead' ones.
Commissars limit IG losses when present
Necron units need to be fully obliterated or they're still a threat.
Orks won't care about losses unless their numbers are severely whittled down.
Tyranids will fall apart if their synapse units are killed off, but the Hive Mind can focus on a specific unit to keep it going longer (Catalyst).
Agreed - fluff and rules working together should be a nice combination.
Caederes wrote: I'm just commenting on how crazy - i.e. silly - it seems that a Reaper Chainsword is less likely to hurt an Annihilation Barge than a Boltgun
It's not silly -- it's Quantum!
This is a fantastic piece of work from GW, I think. They're really hitting that 80s/90s retro vibe, when any amount of laziness in writing, worldbuilding, or game design could be hand-waved away just by adding the word "quantum".
I'd say that RP is better long-term, worse short-term.
However given 40k won't last long enough for the long term to really, truly exist... it's probably worse overall.
Not that I'm complain. I liked the old system because of how thematic it is. It's a shame it Characters really aren't affected though...
xerxeshavelock wrote: I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system. In fact, I can just picture their grinning faces as they roll above the odds and dump half a unit back into play.....
And some game mechanisms are more for gaming sake than would be logical. Eg resolving armour after wounding. Rolling 19 dice and placing 6 figures back has a psychological impact that fnp just doesn't touch - ignoring potential repositioning shenanegans.
I am a Necron player and i am looking forward to the new RP rules. It is a more unique feature putting models back on the table appeals more to me compared to another save roll. And don't forget about Mortal wounds FnP and IS are useless against mortal wounds.
Reanimation protocols sounds a bit like a lot of the abilities Death has in AoS, which makes sense. I would assume that characters heal wounds instead.
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
Zewrath wrote: So... From all the leaks I've seen so far... Is it safe to assume that dozerblades are dead now?
Almost all vehicle upgrades are out, or pared down to a very small list of options. Chaos lost Dirge Casters on the LR, warpflame gargoyles, daemonic possession...
fewer options are easier to balance, so rather than give people the old options and work hard to balance them, they've chosen to kill off the choice
I don't think we see them on "day one".
In Live FAQ there was annouced that Space Marine Codex will be published later this year and will cover Chapter Tactics rules.
I think the same goes for:
CSM <LEGIONS>
TAU <SEPT>
NECRON <DYNASTY>
and others factions.
You see - everyone will have to buy additional rules for their army
IMHO Indexes will only include points and "vanilla" rules for "day one" release.
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?
Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?
Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.
Umm no. They don't roll at all, automatic 6 damage.
I am seeing no reason to take a Lord of Contagion over Typhus.
As much as I love the traveller (never had a battle without him leading), I was looking forward to using a dude of my own fluff creation.
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?
Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.
Plasma guns are damage 2 yes? So 1/3 of those are disregarded if I understood the rules as translated? So you're looking closer to 10 shots again with a plasma gun.
Also while we haven't seen the exact wording of Living Metal, it is meant to restore wounds automatically now and it seems like all Characters and Vehicles have it.
It looks like between RP and Living Metal, if you don't destroy a Necron unit outright, it may be they're restoring lost models/wounds every turn.
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?
Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.
Umm no. They don't roll at all, automatic 6 damage.
Which is negated if the necron player rolls less than 6.
At least we know why variable damage is a thing; its because of quantum shielding.
Kingsley wrote: Sad to see grav-guns get dumpstered by the new edition - Rapid Fire 1 is a huge nerf from Salvo 2/3, since it means that they will only fire one shot at 18" instead of potentially 3. I was hoping for Heavy 2.
To make matters worse, plasma guns cost less and are much improved thanks to variable power settings. The grav-cannon is still a valuable option, but I don't see why anyone would pay 15 points for a grav-gun when they could pay 13 points for a plasma gun, which has more range, higher strength, the same AP, and can overcharge if increased damage is necessary.
"On a hit roll of 1, the bearer is slain after all this weapons' shots have been resolved" That's pretty harsh. No more 'time to make a save'. You just lose the model. Every turn you rapid fire it, there is a 30% you will lose it. In 7th edition, a marine only had a 1/18 chance of dying from his PG.
1d3 damage is much better vs things with a 3+ armor save and lots of wounds -- like most vehicles we have seen. Grav is wounding everything we have seen thus far on a 5+.
I would not say grav is better or worse than plasma. It's more reliable than overcharged plasma and better at heavily armored targets.
Dudeface wrote: Plasma guns are damage 2 yes? So 1/3 of those are disregarded if I understood the rules as translated? So you're looking closer to 10 shots again with a plasma gun.
5/6. It blocks only if you roll less.
Made some more simulations and lascannon does average about 1.6dmg per wound that goes through saves and d3 weapon 1.1 or so.
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?
Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.
Umm no. They don't roll at all, automatic 6 damage.
Sorry yes you are right - its only if the Necron player rolls a 6 I think.
1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW
First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.
Requizen wrote: If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:
1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW
First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.
Here you go:
1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound
Garion wrote: 2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
How does that interact with units with mixed wound values, I wonder? If they even exist any more (surely nobs didn't get nerfed down to 1 wound?)...
Well, Quantum Shielding is OP as hell vs. highly damaging weapons. Melta is going to be awful against vehicles equipped with it. Again, mass plasma is the winning combination here. Overcharging only gives a 16.7% chance of the wounds not going through. The fact it can deflect a frickin' reaper chainsword is pretty lame. I guess if you keep shooting at it with the heavy stubber...
Requizen wrote: If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:
1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW
First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.
Here you go:
1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound
Thanks, seems I wasn't too far off (travel Italian doesn't really translate to Warhammer rules).
Can you give a quick rundown of the Command Barge stats and abilities?
I think what's really going to make/break the Necrons is:
1. What's the exact ruling for Living Metal (How durable does it actually make the unit).
2. How does the Night Scythe Invasion Beam work.
3. How does the Ghost Ark's repair barge power work.
4. Is there any way Wraiths can have access to WBB?
Why? Because, as a Necron Player, I need to know about two things, Durability and Mobility. I don't have to worry about weapons. The Necrons always have amazing weapons. Have you looked at the ranged weapon profiles listed?
Garion wrote: 2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
How does that interact with units with mixed wound values, I wonder? If they even exist any more (surely nobs didn't get nerfed down to 1 wound?)...
It can be referring to the majority value of the unit. It look likes there is a missing word in the pict
Eyjio wrote: I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are
Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?
Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.
Mathhammer like this doesn't really work on rules that protect against outliers rather than averages, a single roll can have a statistically huge effect. All it takes is for a few of those 7.7 lascannons to roll 4+ damage and there's a decent chance of ignoring them altogether. Also, those 7.7 lascannons plus whatever they're attached to will cost way more than any Annihilation Barge, so I'd hardly call that 'frail'.
As a Tyranid player, I'd kill for a rule that lets me ignore a bunch of lascannon, melta or railgun damage.
Requizen wrote: If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:
1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW
First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.
Here you go:
1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound
Thanks, seems I wasn't too far off (travel Italian doesn't really translate to Warhammer rules).
Can you give a quick rundown of the Command Barge stats and abilities?
Something like this:
Command Barge Stats: 12" 2+WS 2+BS S5 T6 W8 A3 Ld10 3+Sv Living Metal
Command Wave (?): +1 to advance, charge and hit within 12" to one unit. Not stacking with other buffs like this.
Quantum shielding: Avoids dmg if you roll (d6) less than the damage received.
Ressurrection Orb: Repeat RP rolls (theres more info but its cut)
Explodes: When it dies, roll a d6, on 6 it explodes and deals ? Mortal Wounds to every unit within ? (cut too)
A vehicle that flies, nothing on chariots or the OLord able to disembark.
My italian is travel too, but I give you something
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, Quantum Shielding is OP as hell vs. highly damaging weapons. Melta is going to be awful against vehicles equipped with it. Again, mass plasma is the winning combination here. Overcharging only gives a 16.7% chance of the wounds not going through. The fact it can deflect a frickin' reaper chainsword is pretty lame. I guess if you keep shooting at it with the heavy stubber...
It's worse than riptides nova shield. Vs lascannon it's 55% protection. Krak 36 or so.
xerxeshavelock wrote: I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system.
I have more than 11,000 points worth of Necrons, so I guess over 20,000 in the new system, and I am annoyed by this system.
But then you've been annoyed by so much it kind of loses any meaning
I've liked about as much as I've disliked, and honestly there's been more people filled with so much glowing positivity it loses all meaning.
I'm approaching it as "I'm presuming the people who have stated that balance and enabling diversity aren't absolute idiots and have foreseen most things that seem to be ridiculously OP, UP or a nightmare of micromanagement and there's more to it"
Some people are specifically waiting to find something to post snark about the "most playtested version ever" so they can tell us all how terrible GW is - but I'm operating on the assumption that putting a GW T-shirt on doesn't automatically make you an idiot.
Give it a while and wait until you have a full picture before the whinging begins.
BrianDavion wrote: in fairness the rhino IS supposed to be famed for it's durability.
that and I suspect thats a play testing issue, rhinos proably where getting popped early and fast, inflicting too many casualities, leading to GW to toughen them up in response
One of the key things I noticed is that there is no reference to 'fire points' on the rhino.
This means that, unless the trait 'transport', gives some of the units inside the ability to fire out -- then the Rhino is just a transport - not a mobile bunker.
Edit : If I missed something that indicates otherwise, please let me know. I remember in the DE faction focus they talked about how all the models could shoot out of the raider, but I don't see anything about that for the rhino.
Between Latin, French, and Spanish I can read a decent amount surprisingly.
Has anyone pointed out the return of cryptek gear? Lancia ultraterrana are the old eldritch lance weapons unless I'm horribly mistaken. Bastone del domani would be aeon staff as well, I think at least.
Requizen wrote: If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:
1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW
First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.
Here you go:
1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound
Thanks, seems I wasn't too far off (travel Italian doesn't really translate to Warhammer rules).
Can you give a quick rundown of the Command Barge stats and abilities?
Command Barge
Standard loadout:
Overlord with staff of light
The barge is armed with a Gauss Cannon
Options:
The Overlord can swap the staff of light with an object from the melee weapons list
The Overlord can take a resurrection globe
The barge can replace the Gauss Cannon with a Tesla Cannon
Abilities
Living Metals
Command wave (?) : at the beginning of each of your turns select an Infantry unit of the friendly <Dynasty> within 12" of this model. You can add 1 to the Advance / Charge / Hit rolls of that unit until the beginning of your next turn. An unit can't be subject to both Command wave and Let my will be done in the same turn
Quantum shielding : every time this model suffer an unsaved wound roll a D6. If the result is lower of the attack damage, the damage is ignored (eg: if you suffer 4 damages and you roll a 3 or less, the damage is ignored)
Resurrection Globe : the text is cut but it look like you can make another Rianimation Roll for a nearby Infantry unit of the same Dynasty after you make one for the Barge/Lord
Explode: roll a D6 before you remove the model from the table (when it react 0 wounds I guess). On a 6 it explodes and any unit (withing X"?) suffer a mortal wound
Mr Morden wrote: I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?
Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.
Yes, though I did it incorrectly. There's 36 possibilities for 2 dice being rolled, and in 15 of them you ignore the damage, so it's actually like a 4.5++ save. That means it's more like 8.81 lascannons. Still frail just not as bad as I said. The other maths still all works out.
Mathhammer like this doesn't really work on rules that protect against outliers rather than averages, a single roll can have a statistically huge effect. All it takes is for a few of those 7.7 lascannons to roll 4+ damage and there's a decent chance of ignoring them altogether. Also, those 7.7 lascannons plus whatever they're attached to will cost way more than any Annihilation Barge, so I'd hardly call that 'frail'.
Mathhammer is good for exactly the reason that it is an average without outliers. Sure, you can say snipers are the best guns in the game if you roll all 6's to wound, but the average is far less. Likewise, it's fair to say that an annihilation barge is weak if the maths behind it average out to make it look weak.
You can't compare units to the cost to eliminate them in a single turn either, that's a poor judge of how good something is. The fact of the matter is that Annihilation Barges have gone from a particularly durable heavy support to one which is likely dead in the first or second turn. Even if it's balanced, they're frail and it's a change for, as far as I can tell, very little reason at all.
I want to see the whole thing, and not bits and pieces.
"Blah and blah were nerfed!"
"Sure, but how were Blah and Blah changed to balance it?"
I'm not ready to hit the panic button. Not yet, anyway.
Will you have to change tactics and design your army a bit differently? Sure. We all will, actually.
My friend and I played a game yesterday extrapolating as much as possible and not stressing about exact points. The game plays in ways you don't expect. It was quite enjoyable.
anyone got a link to the 40k 4chan-board (actually I am too stupid to find my way to that damn board with its hundreds of archives -.-) or knows if they got some new leaks over there? need my fix and finally something for my armies
Iago40k wrote: anyone got a link to the 40k 4chan-board (actually I am too stupid to find my way to that damn board with its hundreds of archives -.-) or knows if they got some new leaks over there? need my fix and finally something for my armies
So, I just watched a game of 8th edition being played using the starter forces. I have to say that even though it was the first time playing this edition for both players the game ran really smoothly. The match was very even, the marines seeming to be winning at first via their strong shooting, but once the nurglites managed to get into close combat the tables were turned.
Primaris lieutenants allow units within 6" to re-roll wound rolls of one, while the ancient adds one to leadership of nearby units and on 4+ allows slain models in those units to attack either by shooting or in close combat before they're removed.
The guns on the inceptors are chunkier than I expected, they certainly look like believable heavy bolter variants when seen up close.
And most importantly, the beginning blurb in the BRB remains unchanged.
Iago40k wrote: anyone got a link to the 40k 4chan-board (actually I am too stupid to find my way to that damn board with its hundreds of archives -.-) or knows if they got some new leaks over there? need my fix and finally something for my armies
The thread changes constantly. You need to go to 4chan.org/tg and go to the catalog. Search for the 40,000 General thread. Threads eventually die and a new one pops up.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Well, Quantum Shielding is OP as hell vs. highly damaging weapons. Melta is going to be awful against vehicles equipped with it. Again, mass plasma is the winning combination here. Overcharging only gives a 16.7% chance of the wounds not going through. The fact it can deflect a frickin' reaper chainsword is pretty lame. I guess if you keep shooting at it with the heavy stubber...
It's worse than riptides nova shield. Vs lascannon it's 55% protection. Krak 36 or so.
Optimal gun to shoot is likely autocannon btw
The Predator Autocannons, maybe. Otherwise, high Strength, High AP, Low damage would be the best option. Good thing I have a Knight Warden and prefer Plasma for my Space Marines (admittedly, I love Melta as well). I guess my Knight will just be stomping on Necron vehicles rather than punching them with his Thunderstrike Gauntlet.
Also, Nova Shield causes a mortal wound in order to use it, so that is pretty rough. Though, a Riptide with Stims can still ignore a wound on a 6+, so risk versus reward, I guess.
I saw the recent (brief) spoilers about Magnus, but have there been any further Thousand Sons leaks? I'm very curious to see what kind of unique psyker powers (if any) they have.
Iago40k wrote: anyone got a link to the 40k 4chan-board (actually I am too stupid to find my way to that damn board with its hundreds of archives -.-) or knows if they got some new leaks over there? need my fix and finally something for my armies
1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW
First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.
Here you go:
1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain
3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound
Is anyone able to read/trans the small section above these psykic powers? it mentions something about D3
So I just did the points for centurions and damn if it isnt interesting
So Cent with hurricane bolter and heavy bolters is 86
Meanwhile a cent with twin lascannons and cent missiles is 140 each!!
Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
tneva82 wrote: Pred autocannon good for marines. I looked more from ig pov. And my sons of horus though they won't play 8tg ed.
But ac wounds on 3, barge saves on 5plus, quantum blocks 1/6 times, 5/6 2 dam through. Not too bad. And no overload danger vs plasma
A Captain-backed Hellblaster Squad will put some hurt down with their Overcharged Plasma Incinerators and not have to worry too much about Overcharge eating them. An Apothecary will bring them back up as well.
At any rate, spamming one weapon type is a recipe for disaster now, which I am perfectly fine with. Plasma seems to be a good choice for dealing with most everything though.
Leth wrote: So I just did the points for centurions and damn if it isnt interesting
So Cent with hurricane bolter and heavy bolters is 86
Meanwhile a cent with twin lascannons and cent missiles is 140 each!!
Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
Try doing a crisis suit with 3 missile pods, or a Dreadnought with 2 Twin Autocannons. Heavy weapons are way more expensive now generally, as are vehicles. I mean, 2 lascannons and missiles for 140 points isn't that bad even - that's much more firepower than most armies can spit out for that price. Necrons are paying 63 points for 2 S5 AP-3 Dam D3 shots, so consider yourself lucky.
Leth wrote: So I just did the points for centurions and damn if it isnt interesting
So Cent with hurricane bolter and heavy bolters is 86
Meanwhile a cent with twin lascannons and cent missiles is 140 each!!
Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
With split fire that seems like a pretty wise decision.
Leth wrote: So I just did the points for centurions and damn if it isnt interesting
So Cent with hurricane bolter and heavy bolters is 86
Meanwhile a cent with twin lascannons and cent missiles is 140 each!!
Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Leth wrote: So I just did the points for centurions and damn if it isnt interesting
So Cent with hurricane bolter and heavy bolters is 86
Meanwhile a cent with twin lascannons and cent missiles is 140 each!!
Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Honestly in the context of how expensive all heavy and special weapons are now its not that bad. It just takes some re-thinking of how much fire power would be on the table at a points value.
Personally I am a really big fan, one of the big problems in the previous edition is that heavy weapons fire was way to cheap for the amount of damage it did. Made the regular guys totally worthless. No you can get those heavy weapons but it is costing you 1-2 squads of the regular guys haha. I like how it is actually a decision and trade off compared to before.
Someone was complaining that it takes about 18 missiles to kill a land raider......well that is 450 points in missiles....
I do like how they simplified barrage, there is no BS modifiers or anything like that. IT simply says you can fire at things out of LOS. Simplified and streamlined. I like it, might actually have to bust out my whirlwinds...
Another thing I would like to highlight is that vehicle squadrons are gone in the space marine list. So we are back to solo units, which is fine. With the openning up of the force org charts its not as big of a deal.
Leth wrote: Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
The ability to split fire for everyone makes mixed weapon units not the boneheaded move as it was in the past. It's a nice touch.
Leth wrote: Dont get me wrong that is two lascannon and d3 missile shots each but wow are points different haha Feel like Hybrid unit builds are going to be necessary. Otherwise you are losing a lot more points per death. Like 1-2 Lascannon ones with 3-4 heavy bolter ones. Something like that to help mitigate the prices.
The ability to split fire for everyone makes mixed weapon units not the boneheaded move as it was in the past. It's a nice touch.
Yeah, I always hated how I had to waste my bolter shots because I was firing my melta at the tank over there.
Removing the "have to charge what you shoot" is nice as well. That rule always annoyed me.
Interesting thing about the cent missile launcher is that it only has one fire mode, however it is assault d3 and does d3 damage instead of assault 1 d6 damage. Significant differences between the two!
Also I like how grav and plasma now have two very distinct roles and targets. Before it was all grav all the time. Now they are pretty good against a wide variety of things but they both shine in different areas.
Multi Wound good save infantry is good for grav. Plasma is better against tougher single wound enemies. Also the over charge finally makes sense IMO. It is a plasma pistol blowing up in your hand. I dont care who you are: it takes that entire arm with it in the fluff. Now you have the CHOICE to overcharge it so there is no reason to complain about it "being unreasonable that a character dies" You are choosing to take a calculated risk. Dont want to take the risk, dont over charge it. You would think with their hundreds of years of experience they would know better huh?
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(
Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake
I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.
If they share the Chais keyword (and I think they do) they should be able to roll in the same detachment with no issues.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
Thas the reason why a Grav gun is now 7 points.
looks like 15 to me. If it was rapid fire 2 it might be worth it but as noted a plasmagun is cheaper and probably the best option in 99% of cases
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
From 4chan:
old one eye: 10w r7
>ws3+, gives +1 to hit on carnifices within 6
>his charge does d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 1
>each attack that hits generate another attack to resolve with the same weapon against the same target
>140pts
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
Grav Gun more reliably takes on heavy armor.
Yes, a plasma gun can overcharge, but you're ignoring the *required* cost of a hero so that you don't obliterate yourself in the process.
From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
>boyz cost the same with slugga, choppa and bomms; hit on 3+, shoot on 5+; if 20 or more gain an additional attack
>nobz 17ppm, 3 models minimum
>old one eye: 10w r7
>ws3+, gives +1 to hit on carnifices within 6
>his charge does d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 1
>each attack that hits generate another attack to resolve with the same weapon against the same target
>140pts
>kantor same characteristics of other chapter masters (w6 ws2+ s4 t4 4++)
>crimson fists within 6 get another attack and reroll to hit
>dorn's arrow: 24" ass4 s4 ap-1 d1
>sternguards same stats as marines but with ld8(-9 sergeant)
>specialist requiem: rapid fire1 s4 ap-2 d1
>up to 2 can have heavy flamers, heavy weapons, special weapons or combi-weapons
>everyone can have combi-weapons
>16ppm without weapons (which go from 11ppm to 15 ppm respectively for combiflamer and combiplasma)
>vanguards are almost the same but can get any weapon combination between melee and pistols
>yes twin pistols too
SirDalavar wrote: Is anyone able to read/trans the small section above these psykic powers? it mentions something about D3
You either select the powers you want or you select them randomly using a D3
?!!
That's a pretty big "or".
(assuming it let's you choose instead of making to roll, why would anyone ever want to roll?)
It says you have the option to roll a D3 to randomly select your power or you can just choose.
The reason you should roll is exactly why they introduced randomly generated power in the first place; so that the best ones aren't auto-include (and all that can entail) and the rest languish. It's the AoS model. However, if not forced to roll and generate powers randomly, then yes, I don't see why anyone would ever do it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: From 4chan: >ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+ >living metal, quantum shielding >you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit >also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
>boyz cost the same with slugga, choppa and bomms; hit on 3+, shoot on 5+; if 20 or more gain an additional attack >nobz 17ppm, 3 models minimum
>old one eye: 10w r7 >ws3+, gives +1 to hit on carnifices within 6 >his charge does d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 1 >each attack that hits generate another attack to resolve with the same weapon against the same target >140pts
>kantor same characteristics of other chapter masters (w6 ws2+ s4 t4 4++) >crimson fists within 6 get another attack and reroll to hit >dorn's arrow: 24" ass4 s4 ap-1 d1
>sternguards same stats as marines but with ld8(-9 sergeant) >specialist requiem: rapid fire1 s4 ap-2 d1 >up to 2 can have heavy flamers, heavy weapons, special weapons or combi-weapons >everyone can have combi-weapons >16ppm without weapons (which go from 11ppm to 15 ppm respectively for combiflamer and combiplasma)
>vanguards are almost the same but can get any weapon combination between melee and pistols >yes twin pistols too
Arks are still transports? That's annoying. I hated that necrons still used conventional transports, instead of teleport shenanigans. If you can manipulate time and space, why would you ride around on a vehicle that could be destroyed like a peasant? Especially if said transport clearly has no space to carry models due to the wreckages, and lore wise is basically a corpse wagon. Not one of the better designed vehicles, and necron vehicles aren't well designed to begin with. Except for the monolith. That one is special.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Yeah, those are some crazy high points values. Hopefully Centurions pack rules to make it worth it. Given how Grav was nerfed into Oblivion, I really doubt Centurions (the most egregious users of Grav) will survive without a heavy nerfing as well. At any rate, I am thinking I am going to make a Bolter spam squad of Centurions.
Nerfed into oblivion or brought down from it's sky-high perch? You're reaching a bit on this grav thing.
It functionally serves next to no purpose anymore. It doesn't compete with any other SM weapon for its points. Plasma is cheaper and more effective in almost every instance.
Thas the reason why a Grav gun is now 7 points.
Or 15...
The pistol's seven, so there's that.
lol nope thats a plasma pistol a grav pistol is 8
In I don't remember what article, they said that the Grav pistol is 7 points.
I left comments off the previous post so it was easier to catalog. But here are some thoughts I have on the SM stuff.
>kantor same characteristics of other chapter masters (w6 ws2+ s4 t4 4++)
>crimson fists within 6 get another attack and reroll to hit
>dorn's arrow: 24" ass4 s4 ap-1 d1
F$(# Yeah, Pedro! Dorn's Arrow seems to be nice. Overall good stats. His granting additional attacks and reroll to hit makes him ideal for my drop pod force. I can't wait for him to take the field >sternguards same stats as marines but with ld8(-9 sergeant)
>specialist requiem: rapid fire1 s4 ap-2 d1
>up to 2 can have heavy flamers, heavy weapons, special weapons or combi-weapons
>everyone can have combi-weapons
>16ppm without weapons (which go from 11ppm to 15 ppm respectively for combiflamer and combiplasma)
Looks like Specialist Ammo is basically just AP-2 Boltgun rounds. I am okay with this. I was only expecting them to have AP-1 so this was a pleasant surprise. My non-Combi Weapon Sternguard are going to be in a good place. I still wonder what Imperial Fists Tactics do. >vanguards are almost the same but can get any weapon combination between melee and pistols
>yes twin pistols too
No big surprise here. Power weapons are cheaper so that helps them out some.
Any other tyranid players coming to a grim conclusion that v8 is going to be stealershock 2? What with fexes being strictly inferior dreads, and tervigons costing ~250 points base,
StarHunter25 wrote: Any other tyranid players coming to a grim conclusion that v8 is going to be stealershock 2? What with fexes being strictly inferior dreads, and tervigons costing ~250 points base,
I think you judge nids too early. We do not have all the rules for all bugs yet (including points, options etc.).
...
Damn, we knew it was going to lose Armorbane, but no abilities at all?
:/
That's a damn fine statline tho, nothing to sniff at whatsoever.
Yeah, there's no tricks, just pure damage.
Didn't that use to ignore Invulns - I get mixed up with Necron weapons.
3rd ed, yes. In 5th to 7th they replaced that with +2S and armorbane.
It would have been nice if it could inflict mortal wounds, as a nod to its original form.
That would probably have been disgustingly powerful though.
casvalremdeikun wrote: From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
Well those Ghost Ark rules are pretty abysmal. Actually, it's just straight up awful. For 170 points I was hoping it would, you know, not have a 4+ save and die to a stiff breeze like the Annihilation Barge. A Dreadnought gets to survive 42 autocannon shots, yet a Ghost Ark lives only through 28.35! Because it makes sense that an old AV13/13/11 HP4 vehicle is weaker than an old AV12/12/10 HP3 walker, right, and that it's less durable than ever VS autocannons? And it's yet another pointless buff to RP which you'll never get to roll, hurray! Guess I won't be using them then.
That's a damn fine statline tho, nothing to sniff at whatsoever.
It's pretty awful in comparison to the old armourbane, slightly faster than a powerfist, AP1 monster that it once was. Hell, they used to ignore invuln saves, let alone armour. I guess it's cheaper than a powerfist now though, so again, while probably balanced, they're randomly changing the flavour of how Necrons play from tough and advanced at a cost, to weak and expendable at little cost. I hate it. I already have a horde army with good shooting in the form of IG, I don't want another.
Friday sees something new this week, as we will be showing a showcase game of the new Warhammer 40,000. We will be joined by members of the studio team as we play through multiple scenarios from the new Warhammer 40,000 book using the contents of the box set. This will be the first time we will get to see the new game played on the live stream so tune in to see how this brand new edition of Warhammer 40,000 works.
casvalremdeikun wrote: From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
Well those Ghost Ark rules are pretty abysmal. Actually, it's just straight up awful. For 170 points I was hoping it would, you know, not have a 4+ save and die to a stiff breeze like the Annihilation Barge. A Dreadnought gets to survive 42 autocannon shots, yet a Ghost Ark lives only through 28.35! Because it makes sense that an old AV13/13/11 HP4 vehicle is weaker than an old AV12/12/10 HP3 walker, right, and that it's less durable than ever VS autocannons? And it's yet another pointless buff to RP which you'll never get to roll, hurray! Guess I won't be using them then.
That's a damn fine statline tho, nothing to sniff at whatsoever.
It's pretty awful in comparison to the old armourbane, slightly faster than a powerfist, AP1 monster that it once was. Hell, they used to ignore invuln saves, let alone armour. I guess it's cheaper than a powerfist now though, so again, while probably balanced, they're randomly changing the flavour of how Necrons play from tough and advanced at a cost, to weak and expendable at little cost. I hate it. I already have a horde army with good shooting in the form of IG, I don't want another.
What is with this sudden ideology that anything without a 2+ dies to a cough? The amount of whining is astounding.
casvalremdeikun wrote: From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
Well those Ghost Ark rules are pretty abysmal. Actually, it's just straight up awful. For 170 points I was hoping it would, you know, not have a 4+ save and die to a stiff breeze like the Annihilation Barge. A Dreadnought gets to survive 42 autocannon shots, yet a Ghost Ark lives only through 28.35! Because it makes sense that an old AV13/13/11 HP4 vehicle is weaker than an old AV12/12/10 HP3 walker, right, and that it's less durable than ever VS autocannons? And it's yet another pointless buff to RP which you'll never get to roll, hurray! Guess I won't be using them then.
That's a damn fine statline tho, nothing to sniff at whatsoever.
It's pretty awful in comparison to the old armourbane, slightly faster than a powerfist, AP1 monster that it once was. Hell, they used to ignore invuln saves, let alone armour. I guess it's cheaper than a powerfist now though, so again, while probably balanced, they're randomly changing the flavour of how Necrons play from tough and advanced at a cost, to weak and expendable at little cost. I hate it. I already have a horde army with good shooting in the form of IG, I don't want another.
Luciferian wrote: Wait a second, where are Lieutenants on the space marine points list?
After the librarians. 70 points per guy, two per slot can be taken. I saw the dataslate today. Re-roll ones on wound rolls to nearbby units. Can have a power sword or auto bolt rifle (which is a piece of trash, I don't understand why it can't fire the same ammo as the normal bolt rifles.)
casvalremdeikun wrote: From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
Well those Ghost Ark rules are pretty abysmal. Actually, it's just straight up awful. For 170 points I was hoping it would, you know, not have a 4+ save and die to a stiff breeze like the Annihilation Barge. A Dreadnought gets to survive 42 autocannon shots, yet a Ghost Ark lives only through 28.35! Because it makes sense that an old AV13/13/11 HP4 vehicle is weaker than an old AV12/12/10 HP3 walker, right, and that it's less durable than ever VS autocannons? And it's yet another pointless buff to RP which you'll never get to roll, hurray! Guess I won't be using them then.
Yeah, T6 is surprisingly weak. It does have a lot of wounds, but its going to be easy to strip them with mid strength weapons due to its poor defenses. Not sure I like where they are going with the necron vehicles.
I guess they are trying to base the rules on their fragile appearance. Which makes sense, I guess. I don't like the 5th ed vehicle design anyway. The only good one were the scythes, and of course they fethed that up with the nonsensical "shoot me here" cockpit.
Of course, you just know they will release new, more durable looking necron vehicles that won't get destroyed by a stiff breeze.
Requizen wrote:What is with this sudden ideology that anything without a 2+ dies to a cough? The amount of whining is astounding.
No-one said that, and there's a certain irony in you whining about whining that isn't even there. Do you understand the difference between "wanting a 2+ save" and "wanting one of the old, toughest vehicles in the game to get better than T6 4+"? Come on now.
Vorian wrote:Do you know what living metal does?
Auto heals 1 wound. Good for characters and vehicles if they live one turn. Good luck with that.
From 4chan:
>ghost arc: w14 s6 t6 4+
>living metal, quantum shielding
>you can still make reanimation protocols for the embarked unit
>also at the end of the movement phase you can choose an unit within 3 for additional reanimation protocol rolls (doesn't stack with the resurrection globe)
>you can choose one unit to hold in reverses "on the tomb world"; it can come out within 3 of the monolith but more than 1 from the enemy at the start of the movement phase
Well those Ghost Ark rules are pretty abysmal. Actually, it's just straight up awful. For 170 points I was hoping it would, you know, not have a 4+ save and die to a stiff breeze like the Annihilation Barge. A Dreadnought gets to survive 42 autocannon shots, yet a Ghost Ark lives only through 28.35! Because it makes sense that an old AV13/13/11 HP4 vehicle is weaker than an old AV12/12/10 HP3 walker, right, and that it's less durable than ever VS autocannons? And it's yet another pointless buff to RP which you'll never get to roll, hurray! Guess I won't be using them then.
That's a damn fine statline tho, nothing to sniff at whatsoever.
It's pretty awful in comparison to the old armourbane, slightly faster than a powerfist, AP1 monster that it once was. Hell, they used to ignore invuln saves, let alone armour. I guess it's cheaper than a powerfist now though, so again, while probably balanced, they're randomly changing the flavour of how Necrons play from tough and advanced at a cost, to weak and expendable at little cost. I hate it. I already have a horde army with good shooting in the form of IG, I don't want another.
"Why my dreadnaught requires only 4.155 lascannon hits to go down while a ghost ark requires 10,9?!?!?" Do you see? It's easy to make a counter argument.
Right tools for the right job, comparing the autocannon shots needed to kill it's perfect target (ghost ark) against the shots required to kill a non optimal target (dreadnaught) do not make for a fair comparison, the same i did with lascannons.
Requizen wrote:What is with this sudden ideology that anything without a 2+ dies to a cough? The amount of whining is astounding.
No-one said that, and there's a certain irony in you whining about whining that isn't even there. Do you understand the difference between "wanting a 2+ save" and "wanting one of the old, toughest vehicles in the game to get better than T6 4+"? Come on now.
Vorian wrote:Do you know what living metal does?
Auto heals 1 wound. Good for characters and vehicles if they live one turn. Good luck with that.
Eyjio wrote: For 170 points I was hoping it would, you know, not have a 4+ save and die to a stiff breeze like the Annihilation Barge.
Requizen wrote:What is with this sudden ideology that anything without a 2+ dies to a cough? The amount of whining is astounding.
No-one said that, and there's a certain irony in you whining about whining that isn't even there. Do you understand the difference between "wanting a 2+ save" and "wanting one of the old, toughest vehicles in the game to get better than T6 4+"? Come on now.
Vorian wrote:Do you know what living metal does?
Auto heals 1 wound. Good for characters and vehicles if they live one turn. Good luck with that.
Are those 28 autocannon shots coming in one turn? Or did you factor the extra wounds from loving metal in?
Seems like they went high wounds to let you get the most out of living metal perhaps?
Luciferian wrote: Wait a second, where are Lieutenants on the space marine points list?
After the librarians. 70 points per guy, two per slot can be taken. I saw the dataslate today. Re-roll ones on wound rolls to nearbby units. Can have a power sword or auto bolt rifle (which is a piece of trash, I don't understand why it can't fire the same ammo as the normal bolt rifles.)
Thanks, hah, I don't know how I didn't see that. Now how long until we can put Primaris on bikes...
Requizen wrote:What is with this sudden ideology that anything without a 2+ dies to a cough? The amount of whining is astounding.
No-one said that, and there's a certain irony in you whining about whining that isn't even there. Do you understand the difference between "wanting a 2+ save" and "wanting one of the old, toughest vehicles in the game to get better than T6 4+"? Come on now.
Vorian wrote:Do you know what living metal does?
Auto heals 1 wound. Good for characters and vehicles if they live one turn. Good luck with that.
Irony of ironies.
You think it's simple to bring down a T6 14W vehicle in one turn? Because that would take 56 autocannon shots (28 autocannons).
From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
>scarab occult have 4++
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6 >ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork
>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6 >1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before
Shadow Walker wrote: From 4chan:
>drop pods deploy 9 away from enemy, troops must disembark 9 away from enemy
>can transport 10 infantry models, but they can't have the jump pack, terminator, centurion or primaris keyword
>scarab occult have 4++
>taurox and taurox prime m14" w10 r6 3+
>chimera m12" w10 r7 3+
>veterans have same stats as normal infantry except bs 3+; can have 3 special weapons, a heavy weapon a heavy flamer; 6ppm without equip
>valkyrie m20"(min)-45"(max); w14 s7 t7 3+
>can go in stationary flight mode and reduce its movement to up to 20", but loses the other rules of fliers (-1 to be hit, can only be charged by flying stuff)
>grav-chute deployment still in: if performed when moving more than 20" 1/6 models die
>hellstroke missiles: heavy1 s8 ap-2 d6 >ogryns w3 s5 t5; ws3+; +1 attack on charge; weapon is 12" ass3 s5 ap- d1
>vanquisher is heavy 1 72" s8 ap-3 d6, roll 2 dice for damage and discard the lower
>basilisk 240" heavyD6 s9 ap-3 d3, roll 2 dice for determining the number of shots and discard the lower; can shoot on units it can't see
>confirmed characters: yarrick, pask, creed, kell, harker, straken, nork
>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6 >1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before
Awesome news!
Can you ask for info on chapter tactics, Legion traits, tau septs and so on. Nothing has been leaked and I would think those would be important. It makes me ask if they are even in the indexes.
Spoletta wrote: "Why my dreadnaught requires only 4.155 lascannon hits to go down while a ghost ark requires 10,9?!?!?" Do you see? It's easy to make a counter argument.
Right tools for the right job, comparing the autocannon shots needed to kill it's perfect target (ghost ark) against the shots required to kill a non optimal target (dreadnaught) do not make for a fair comparison, the same i did with lascannons.
Technically, it's 6.17 to kill a Dread and 15.42 to kill a GA but yes, it's a valid point. My issue, though, is that it's a total characteristic change of the vehicle - it's gone from immune to low strength and very weak to high damage to the total reverse - it now hates small arms and loves being shot by high damage. It's a change for no reason other than to arbitrarily change the feeling of the vehicle. Plus, there's a lot more weapons that are S6-8 with damage of 3 or less than there are lascannon equivalents - the lascannons can shoot other units, but the Ghost Ark can't pop back to life if it gets shot to death.
Requizen wrote:What is with this sudden ideology that anything without a 2+ dies to a cough? The amount of whining is astounding.
No-one said that, and there's a certain irony in you whining about whining that isn't even there. Do you understand the difference between "wanting a 2+ save" and "wanting one of the old, toughest vehicles in the game to get better than T6 4+"? Come on now.
Vorian wrote:Do you know what living metal does?
Auto heals 1 wound. Good for characters and vehicles if they live one turn. Good luck with that.
Irony of ironies.
You think it's simple to bring down a T6 14W vehicle in one turn? Because that would take 56 autocannon shots (28 autocannons).
Maybe a bit more due to the living metal rule.
It probably isn't as fragile in practice, but the base stat line looks underwhelming. I doubt that it will go down in a single turn, but it will most likely go down eventually.
I suggest brushing up on your reading skills. The issue is that a vehicle which was stronger than a Leman Russ is now considerably weakened whilst almost every other vehicle became more durable. If you can't see the difference between what I said and your argument, that's on you.
benlac wrote: Woah, Rhinos are 70 points? Double what it used to be. Hopefully they have great armour for that cost..
T7 10W - no shooting out of it now though.
Its more or less the same vs something like a lascannon
e.g. 4 marines with lascannons average 2.2 hull points in 7th
same in 8th = 1.78 wounds round it up thats 2d6 wounds say 7
3rd left alive ish in both cases
It's no longer exploded or immobilized though.
Also, i'll repeat. Do not make comparisons using the best tools for the job. Sure lascannons kept a good deal of efficency, but it also one of the best weapons in 8th for that role. In 7th you could take down a razorback with 6 plasma shots (less with a lucky roll), now you need 20 (10 if overcharged, which means a lot of dead shooters). I would say that the razorback got quite an improvement in thoughness.
DarknessEternal wrote: So every faction leaked so far has massive ways to ignore Morale.
Didn't the article say something about having to worry about Morale? "It will apply to almost every unit"
Well, we know that's a lie now. Wonder what else was a lie.
Morale is back to being exclusively for Eldar.
It does apply to every unit though. Its just that there's a way to mitigate it so it doesn't screw you over that much.
It would seem that the more fragile forces get more of a buff against it; orks, ig and nids can just ignore while, while marines only get a reroll and necrons have to rely on their high stats.
DarknessEternal wrote: So every faction leaked so far has massive ways to ignore Morale.
Didn't the article say something about having to worry about Morale? "It will apply to almost every unit"
Well, we know that's a lie now. Wonder what else was a lie.
Morale is back to being exclusively for Eldar.
Yes because there's no way to kill characters or reduce morale. Plus, really, you are using elder to put on the cross? Wasn't everyone just complaining how punishing morale is?
Titanic feet ahoy!
