LOL However, I must deny being anyone's Mom's Irish boyfriend (though given I post as Baron Iveagh, that is pretty funny). Just on the grounds my current significant other has no kids. (That I know of).
I know, I was just being a turd I'm really excited about the missing episodes possibly coming to light, the very few I remember watching as a child I've been unable to find anywhere so I'm assuming they're part of the "lost library." That being said, I hope there's more to come than just those this winter, some kind of 3 or 5 doctors special for the regen of Smiths doctor would be awesome.*
The first two doctors have either been found or reconstructed. The reconstructions are hard to watch because it's a series of pictures and some text on the screen explaining what is happening.
and I was watching those episodes this month or the reconstruction of them. I can neither confirm no deny I found a good torrent site that had bundles by doctor of every episode for that doctor
Whilst I have no doubt there are torrents of all sorts of Dr. Who episodes whizzing around the tubes that the internet, apparently, is made up of, it would be impossible for there to be torrents of all of the above episodes.
If you scroll down to the " Reconstruction" section of that link it lists the ones that have been done.
Despite these valiant/obsessive efforts -- MMV -- there are still several stories which are currently still "AWOL".
reds8n wrote: Whilst I have no doubt there are torrents of all sorts of Dr. Who episodes whizzing around the tubes that the internet, apparently, is made up of, it would be impossible for there to be torrents of all of the above episodes.
If you scroll down to the " Reconstruction" section of that link it lists the ones that have been done.
Despite these valiant/obsessive efforts -- MMV -- there are still several stories which are currently still "AWOL".
It's not impossible, I have them. while the released show is lost, the story was found and reconstructed. so the story isn't AWOL, as I've seen every story on that list.
Sure having the original video would be the ideal, the reconstructions at least let us enjoy the stories that may never be fully recovered.
pretre wrote: Not to second guess you here, but if love to see a reconstruction of the smugglers. The only thing that exists is audio and behind tr scenes.
Here’s what I’ve been led to expect from Sunday night’s show.
Zoe Ball.
A live studio audience of fans, who were encouraged to come in Doctor Who cosplay.
A few previous Doctors as guests, taking part in a discussion of the show’s legacy.
The first footage from the 50th Anniversary special to be screened in the UK. It may be the same trailer I saw at Comic-Con.
Matt Smith and Steven Moffat interviews, including some pre-recorded stuff.
The new Doctor. Live.
A simultaneous broadcast on BBC America in the US.
At midnight tonight – about an hour and ten minutes from now – the BBC are going to update their Doctor Who microsite with a post about this special show. That story should include these quotes.
Steven Moffat:
The decision is made and the time has come to reveal who’s taking over the Tardis. For the last of the Time Lords, the clock is striking 12.
BBC Drama Controller Ben Stephenson:
We can’t wait to unveil the next Doctor with everyone live on BBC1 on Sunday night. Amongst all the speculation and betting, there has been lots of fun and intrigue at work as we’ve been using the codename Houdini as a decoy. It’s the biggest secret in showbiz, even those working with the new Doctor on other projects at the moment have no idea they are in the presence of the 12th incarnation.
Audience tickets to the show come with the following instruction:
I just realised how much he looks like Arsene Wenger.
There had better be a damn good explanation for it being him. I'm thrilled. But he's already played Caecilus in the Fires of Pompeii and John Frobisher in Torchwood. Moffat had better come up with a good reason as to why the Doctor is regenerating into the appearance of someone he has met before. It was handwaved with Eve Myles' appearance in The Unquiet Dead by being "spatial genetic multiplicity". This needs a proper and precise explanation to quell the nerdrage brewing in many parts of the Internet.
However; if we do get to hear the Doctor poke his head round the TARDIS door and say "Come the feth in or feth the feth off!"
Ovion wrote: To be honest, if he has facial hair, such as in this photo:
He looks different enough you can pass him off a entirely unconnected.
Even though there, to me, he looks like my my first Doctor. The (non canon) Doctor played by Peter Cushing. Still doesn't work on a personal level ( ) But whatcha gonna do?
Grimtuff wrote: There had better be a damn good explanation for it being him. I'm thrilled. But he's already played Caecilus in the Fires of Pompeii and John Frobisher in Torchwood. Moffat had better come up with a good reason as to why the Doctor is regenerating into the appearance of someone he has met before. It was handwaved with Eve Myles' appearance in The Unquiet Dead by being "spatial genetic multiplicity". This needs a proper and precise explanation to quell the nerdrage brewing in many parts of the Internet.
"Prior to being cast as the Doctor, Baker had guest starred in the programme (as Commander Maxil in the Peter Davison serial Arc of Infinity), the only Doctor actor to have done so prior to taking the role. At one point in the serial, Maxil shoots the Doctor; Baker often jokes that he got the part of the Doctor by killing the incumbent. "
Grimtuff wrote: There had better be a damn good explanation for it being him. I'm thrilled. But he's already played Caecilus in the Fires of Pompeii and John Frobisher in Torchwood. Moffat had better come up with a good reason as to why the Doctor is regenerating into the appearance of someone he has met before. It was handwaved with Eve Myles' appearance in The Unquiet Dead by being "spatial genetic multiplicity". This needs a proper and precise explanation to quell the nerdrage brewing in many parts of the Internet.
"Prior to being cast as the Doctor, Baker had guest starred in the programme (as Commander Maxil in the Peter Davison serial Arc of Infinity), the only Doctor actor to have done so prior to taking the role. At one point in the serial, Maxil shoots the Doctor; Baker often jokes that he got the part of the Doctor by killing the incumbent. "
So this is nothing new.
I never said it was. But this was before the days of the likes of IMDB where you can look up what someone has been in at the click of a button (such as why the "Marylin Manson in the Wonder Years" urban legend would never work today). Unless Baker ever brought it up, we may have never known. With a few people possibly saying "it sure looks like him" (such as with the Manson example above) but never truly able to know for sure.
They've already broken the fourth wall with this as they've acknowledged he was in Dr Who on the program just shown on BBC1. I mean, even if they make a nod to it during the regeneration scene (such as with 12 saying "Oh I've now got a very Roman nose!") that'll be good enough for me.
Grimtuff wrote: I never said it was. But this was before the days of the likes of IMDB where you can look up what someone has been in at the click of a button (such as why the "Marylin Manson in the Wonder Years" urban legend would never work today). Unless Baker ever brought it up, we may have never known. With a few people possibly saying "it sure looks like him" (such as with the Manson example above) but never truly able to know for sure.
Things aren't any different now. Even with IMDB, google and Snopes, folks still fall for that crap all the time. Heck, do a google search for Marilyn Manson Wonder Years in the last month 10+ pages of results. And back in the day, they didn't have IMDB< but they had the Radio Times casts lists which were accessible in libraries. Crazy places that they are. I'm sure a good deal of the Who community knew all about the Baker bit.
They've already broken the fourth wall with this as they've acknowledged he was in Dr Who on the program just shown on BBC1. I mean, even if they make a nod to it during the regeneration scene (such as with 12 saying "Oh I've now got a very Roman nose!") that'll be good enough for me.
I didn't see the program on BBC1, was it in universe or an interview show? According to previous posts, it was a live show with real life folks. It isn't breaking the fourth wall if it wasn't in universe.
I didn't see the program on BBC1, was it in universe or an interview show? According to previous posts, it was a live show with real life folks. It isn't breaking the fourth wall if it wasn't in universe.
It was real life. If you're going to be picky, to use a term from pro wrestling; they "broke kayfabe". They acknowledged he had played another character in the show already. To use two examples from the current WWE crop. We have Ryback and Bray Wyatt. Neither are acknowledged as having previously been seen onscreen as Skip Sheffield and Husky Harris respectively; even though it is blindingly obvious they're the same person.
pretre wrote: "Prior to being cast as the Doctor, Baker had guest starred in the programme (as Commander Maxil in the Peter Davison serial Arc of Infinity), the only Doctor actor to have done so prior to taking the role. At one point in the serial, Maxil shoots the Doctor; Baker often jokes that he got the part of the Doctor by killing the incumbent. "
So this is nothing new.
Karen Gillan had also previously been in Doctor Who (in the Fires of Pompei, oddly enough) before being signed on as a companion and different person.
pretre wrote: "Prior to being cast as the Doctor, Baker had guest starred in the programme (as Commander Maxil in the Peter Davison serial Arc of Infinity), the only Doctor actor to have done so prior to taking the role. At one point in the serial, Maxil shoots the Doctor; Baker often jokes that he got the part of the Doctor by killing the incumbent. "
So this is nothing new.
Karen Gillan had also previously been in Doctor Who (in the Fires of Pompei, oddly enough) before being signed on as a companion and different person.
Also Freema Agyeman in Army of Ghosts and Eve Myles (Gwen in Torchwood) in The Unquiet Dead.
And other in the original series; Nicholas Courtney, Ian Marter and Lalla Ward all appeared as other characters before being cast as companions or similar. Conversely Jean Marsh and Jacqueline Hill appeared as other characters years after they were companions.
Peter Purves played another entirely independent character in the same story as he was introduced at the end. His striking similarity to the character met a few episodes previously was never remarked upon.
Simply, I see no reason for them to comment on Peter Capaldi have previously been in the series, it's nothing.
It's a very common thing in tv, in Star Trek NG you see many actors in bit parts who go on to leading roles in the other series (voyager, ds9, enterprise).
I am very pleased with Peter Capaldi, not only because he's a great actor who I like, but because the tears of fangirls, complaining that he's too old and gross and not some floppy haired yoof, will be like sweet wine.
I hope he is the herald of darker Who stories, I want more 'hiding behind the cushion' back into Who and less 'timey whimy fairytale' bs.
The reveal was slightly ruined for me after it caused an argument between me and a friend, I excitedly told her the news and she was just annoyed that it was another white male.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: It's a very common thing in tv, in Star Trek NG you see many actors in bit parts who go on to leading roles in the other series (voyager, ds9, enterprise).
I am very pleased with Peter Capaldi, not only because he's a great actor who I like, but because the tears of fangirls, complaining that he's too old and gross and not some floppy haired yoof, will be like sweet wine.
I hope he is the herald of darker Who stories, I want more 'hiding behind the cushion' back into Who and less 'timey whimy fairytale' bs.
insaniak wrote: It would seem to suggest less focus on the Doctor trying to get jiggy with his companions... Which is good. Girls are icky.
While out was never really all that likely, I do find myself a little disappointed that it isn't Hugh Lawrie... Dr Whouse could have been awesome...
Just laughed my ass off imagining Hugh Lawrie with a sonic screwdriver and the tardis going around calling people idiots and telling them to let him do his job.
The reveal was slightly ruined for me after it caused an argument between me and a friend, I excitedly told her the news and she was just annoyed that it was another white male.
Even though The Doctor can't change gender no more than you or I can. One day people will get that through their heads. Here's the quote from Moffat from the show that was just broadcast.
For those hoping that the Doctor would regenerate into a woman, you’ll have to wait. It won’t be happening on Moffat’s watch, as he oddly made a joke about it not happening anytime soon: “I like that Helen Mirren has been saying the next Doctor should be a woman. I would like to go on record and say that the Queen should be played by a man.”
The reveal was slightly ruined for me after it caused an argument between me and a friend, I excitedly told her the news and she was just annoyed that it was another white male.
Given that the role has always been played by white males what exactly did she expect?
Grimtuff wrote: Even though The Doctor can't change gender no more than you or I can. One day people will get that through their heads. Here's the quote from Moffat from the show that was just broadcast.
For those hoping that the Doctor would regenerate into a woman, you’ll have to wait. It won’t be happening on Moffat’s watch, as he oddly made a joke about it not happening anytime soon: “I like that Helen Mirren has been saying the next Doctor should be a woman. I would like to go on record and say that the Queen should be played by a man.”
Zing!
Except that time lords CAN change sex during regeneration. In The Doctor's Wife, the Doctor mentioned his friend, the Corsair, who had regenerated as both male and female.
Except that time lords CAN change sex during regeneration. In The Doctor's Wife, the Doctor mentioned his friend, the Corsair, who had regenerated as both male and female.
Well yes in theory the Doctor could regenerate as a woman/minority but to do so would be PC tokenism that would be detrimental to the show. I'm extremely relieved that they didn't go down that route as knowing the BBC there was always a risk they would. Peter Capaldi however is an excellent choice.
LuciusAR wrote: Well yes, the Doctor could regenerate as a woman/minority but to do so would be PC tokenism that would be detrimental to the show
bs, on both counts. If they chose Idris Elba to play the Doctor and someone stopped watching the show becuase of that, it says more to the small mindedness of the viewer, not the show.
The BBC got to have its internal PC-venting spooge with Torchwood to shut up all the whiny liberals it hires.
New doctor is a brilliant choice, although I thought Matt Smith was a good pick too (he looks a lot older than his age, which is perfect for the character)... I stopped watching during Tennant's stint... can't really explain why, just lost interest.
Companions are important too, I didn't find any of the companions between Piper and Gillan to be even slightly interesting.
It does seem like a male companion might be good for a change if they no longer feel the need to push totty on the screen for the sake of ratings.
On the other hand, it might be deemed essential to the national interest, dads around the country will be desperate for a bit of pond-tier leg on a saturday night once the tory porn block comes in and the missus makes damn sure its set to off.
Ahtman wrote: If they chose Idris Elba to play the Doctor and someone stopped watching the show because of that, it says more to the small mindedness of the viewer, not the show.
Sadly, I would rather have seen Idris get the part myself. Not because he's black, but because he's a much better actor, IMHO. I think him as the Doctor would have been very interesting. Peter Capaldi may be a good actor, but one thing he won't be doing is shaking Moffet's writing up anytime soon. What the show needs is a regeneration of the writing staff more than of the Doctor.
On the other hand, it might be deemed essential to the national interest, dads around the country will be desperate for a bit of pond-tier leg on a saturday night once the tory porn block comes in and the missus makes damn sure its set to off.
One of my friends had a status on facebook about betting that the next doctor would be a white male with a British Accent. She knew it would be, and wasn't trying to start anything... She was just a little miffed that they didn't try and make the jump to another gender or race.
I think Capaldi would make for dark stories ahead. Honestly, I think that is part of the reason why I enjoyed Eccleston's doctor. Things were dark and dangerous. Not to say that 10 or 11 (I'm a season behind with 11) didn't have their moments, or some genuinely creepy stuff, but I think MGS hits the nail on the head with the while flimy fairy tail sort of thing. *shrugs*
I'll try and keep up on the show as I did with the 11th. Though I'll probably remain a season behind as I wait for it on Netflix.
bs, on both counts. If they chose Idris Elba to play the Doctor and someone stopped watching the show becuase of that, it says more to the small mindedness of the viewer, not the show.
Idris Elba is an amazing actor, but he's just not Dr Who. Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement. edit: (I have mixed up English and British here. My bad.)
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
While Tennant may have been Scottish, he did have to use a British accent during his tenure as the Doctor, and got to speak in his normal accent during a single episode if I recall.
bs, on both counts. If they chose Idris Elba to play the Doctor and someone stopped watching the show becuase of that, it says more to the small mindedness of the viewer, not the show.
Idris Elba is an amazing actor, but he's just not Dr Who. Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
Get real, you could change it in a heart beat. You get Dame Judi Dench got up there saying she wants to be the Doctor then Blamo! new grls Doctor.
EDIT: For the record I think J Dench would be awesome as the Doctor. Imagine her against the Daleks. The Daleks would run like girly boyz.
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
While Tennant may have been Scottish, he did have to use a British accent during his tenure as the Doctor, and got to speak in his normal accent during a single episode if I recall.
What's a "British" accent? You mean a stereotypical Londoner one? Tennant spoke like a Scotsman throughout...
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
While Tennant may have been Scottish, he did have to use a British accent during his tenure as the Doctor, and got to speak in his normal accent during a single episode if I recall.
What's a "British" accent? You mean a stereotypical Londoner one? Tennant spoke like a Scotsman throughout...
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
While Tennant may have been Scottish, he did have to use a British accent during his tenure as the Doctor, and got to speak in his normal accent during a single episode if I recall.
What's a "British" accent? You mean a stereotypical Londoner one? Tennant spoke like a Scotsman throughout...
It is a not not-British accent. I.e.not American, not Canadian, Not NZ, Zimbabwean, French, Russian, etc.
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
Scottish is British, just as Welsh, English, Cornish etc.
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
Scottish is British, just as Welsh, English, Cornish etc.
The Shadow wrote: We need a Northern Doctor. Like, a REALLY strong Northern accent. That would be fantastic. Northern is best.
Which one? There's the Lancashire, which is really a softer version of the Yorkshire. There's Liverpudlian, there's Geordie... a Geordie or Liverpudlian Doctor would be absolutely hilarious.
LuciusAR wrote: Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
David Tennant would certainly disagree with this statement.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad. Dr Who has always been a white male because that's who they have cast. There is no requirement to keep him such.
Scottish is British, just as Welsh, English, Cornish etc.
Yankee? I'm a Texan. Thats it, whippy sticks at dawn sir! Jihadin and Whembly will be my seconds. Kronk is too busy house hunting. Tbone and Rodney the Shanker will provide security. I promise Rodney won't sneak around and bite your keister...much.
Good dog Rodney. Hold on TBone is trapped in the garden hose again. There won't be any garden hoses there will there?
bs, on both counts. If they chose Idris Elba to play the Doctor and someone stopped watching the show becuase of that, it says more to the small mindedness of the viewer, not the show.
Idris Elba is an amazing actor, but he's just not Dr Who. Dr Who's character has always been an eccentric British gentleman and messing with that for the sake of being right-on just would be bad for the whole show.
Dr Who is a white male, you can no more change that than you can make Miss Marple a man or Shaft white.
Dr. Who is whoever they want him to be...and that is the beauty of the character and his many incarnations. The character has to be one of the best designed in fiction; death of the character isn't the end but a random beginning. To say he is of a specific type of person, or race, is to limit him and that is not what the character is about. Yes it takes the right attitude to play the doctor but that is more to the abilities of the actor and not their skin color or genetics.
So, as someone who just recently got into this show a couple of months ago with the 2005 series and now mostly through season 6, anyone else really annoyed with the apparent disconnect of the show with season 5+ and 1-4? 1-4 seemed fairly unified in story, feel, progression, etc. Eccleston to Tennant seemed to have a fairly natural progression of attitude and character while Smith seems to basically start from scratch. While the newer episodes definitely have better production values, it's basically as if the show just started after the Doctor crashes into what's-her-face's back yard. It seems much more serial and much more "fairy tale"-ey than the older series despite being much better produced, but most of all I just can't bring myself to care about the characters as much.
Maybe I'm just crazy or not the target demographic, but I'm just not liking this phase of the show as much as seasons 1-4. I'm hoping Capaldi changes that.
Whoa. All those people who were complaining that the role of the 13th Doctor was given to yet another white guy, listen up — Neil Gaiman just revealed that the role was offered to an undisclosed black actor before Peter Capaldi, who turned it down. Hey, at least they tried!
Gaiman revealed this and his thoughts on female Doctors and regeneration limits in a serious of recent Tumblr posts. Here's the important news, beginning with the subject of non-white males playing the Doctor:
"I was rather disappointed that Paterson Joseph didn’t get [the role] last time, although I’ve loved Matt’s Eleven.) And yes, I have no doubt there will be [a black Doctor]. (I know one black actor who was already offered the part of the Doctor, and who turned it down.) Just as there will be a female Doctor."
On how the Doctor could theoretically regenerate past his 13th incarnation:
"Well, [the regeneration limit of 13] was the rule when we had Time Lords running the show. (And they were the ones who gave the Master his extra regenerations.) There aren’t any Time Lords any more… MY OPINION (which is not Canon) is that the regeneration limit is a lot like the speed limit. You can break it, but things get a lot more dangerous if you do. The Time Lords were the traffic cops: they enforced the limit. With them gone, the Doctor can keep regenerating beyond 13, but with consequences."
On Peter Capaldi:
"I think Peter’s a brilliant actor... I can’t wait to see what he does. I’m glad that we’re getting an older Doctor — we’ve had two puppies, it’s time to see someone older. It’ll change the nature of the relationship with Clara in interesting ways, for a start."
And most interestingly, why Capaldi is possibly the best choice to follow Matt Smith:
"And here, for what it’s worth, are my other thoughts: Do I think it’s time to cast a woman as the Doctor? Not yet. Not quite... [f I were show-running (I’m not) I wouldn’t cast a woman as the Doctor yet, and it would absolutely be on my list of things to do in the following regeneration. (I was the one who wrote the line about the Corsair changing gender on regeneration, in “The Doctor’s Wife" after all, and made it canon that Time Lords can absolutely change gender when they regenerate.) Some of that is stuff I’d find hard to articulate, mostly having to do with what kind of Doctor you follow Matt Smith’s Doctor with: someone harder and much older and more dangerous and, yes, male feels right to me, as a storyteller. Where you go after that, ah, that’s a whole new game…"
You know, I kind of agree with him. I'm not sure why, exactly, but somehow it feels like a female or black (or, god forbid, a black female!) Doctor will have more impact after Capaldi than it would after Smith. Maybe because the Doctor has traditionally been an old white dude, so by returning the Doctor to that default the change becomes more meaningful? Maybe? I'm not sure, but with the news that showrunner Stephen Moffat tried to expand the Doctor's forms, I have high hopes for #13.
Meh, it's more of the eccentric englishman angle that is compulsory for me. The Doctor could be any skin colour or gender so long as he is an eccentric englishman.
Back to Dr Who, on the endless gnashing of teeth about why not black, why not female, why not asian or whatever, my question back is simply why should we, The Doctor has regenerated many times, with each regen, showing a variety of ages, hair, accent but no variation previously to gender or outward appearance of 'race' (he isn't European either, he's an alien). We should not be changing things like this in the name of equality for equality's sake. Equality and the serious issues faced by those who are discriminated against are, I strongly believe, undermined a great deal when it becomes mired in trivia like this, which is counterproductive and ends up belittling equality as 'political correctness gone mad'.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Back to Dr Who, on the endless gnashing of teeth about why not black, why not female, why not asian or whatever, my question back is simply why should we, The Doctor has regenerated many times, with each regen, showing a variety of ages, hair, accent but no variation previously to gender or outward appearance of 'race' (he isn't European either, he's an alien). We should not be changing things like this in the name of equality for equality's sake. Equality and the serious issues faced by those who are discriminated against are, I strongly believe, undermined a great deal when it becomes mired in trivia like this, which is counterproductive and ends up belittling equality as 'political correctness gone mad'.
It wasn't as if he was originally cast as white man on purpose; it is the same as why almost every Superhero up until the late 60's/early 70's was white: it was a default selection. Unless you honestly believe there are no good non-white actors, then it seems unusual to pretend the only reason why a person of color or woman (or god forbid a female person of color) could play the role without it only being tokenism. There is nothing inherently 'white' about the character, and the only criteria that should important is whether they would be interesting as The Doctor. Pretending he must be white because he has always been white seems a more corrosive idea then broaching the idea that the BBC can expand their casting call to all of the UK's talent pool. No one is forcing them to pick a black person or a woman, just saying that it should be an option, but even saying that much gets a lot of blow back.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Back to Dr Who, on the endless gnashing of teeth about why not black, why not female, why not asian or whatever, my question back is simply why should we, The Doctor has regenerated many times, with each regen, showing a variety of ages, hair, accent but no variation previously to gender or outward appearance of 'race' (he isn't European either, he's an alien). We should not be changing things like this in the name of equality for equality's sake. Equality and the serious issues faced by those who are discriminated against are, I strongly believe, undermined a great deal when it becomes mired in trivia like this, which is counterproductive and ends up belittling equality as 'political correctness gone mad'.
It wasn't as if he was originally cast as white man on purpose; it is the same as why almost every Superhero up until the late 60's/early 70's was white: it was a default selection. Unless you honestly believe there are no good non-white actors, then it seems unusual to pretend the only reason why a person of color or woman (or god forbid a female person of color) could play the role without it only being tokenism. There is nothing inherently 'white' about the character, and the only criteria that should important is whether they would be interesting as The Doctor. Pretending he must be white because he has always been white seems a more corrosive idea then broaching the idea that the BBC can expand their casting call to all of the UK's talent pool. No one is forcing them to pick a black person or a woman, just saying that it should be an option, but even saying that much gets a lot of blow back.
Precisely, he was not a white man on purpose, neither was anyone who followed him, so why should he be a black man on purpose, or a woman, on purpose, or have a disability, on purpose... How about the casting is open, the creative team gets to pick who they want to run with without the sword hanging over their heads that if they don't pick 'something minority', they will be subject to criticism and allegations of being 'ists' about some group.
I personally think Paterson Joseph would make a phenomenal Doctor, in fact if they just cut and pasted his Marquis De Carabas, nuances, costume and all, into the role, I'd be entirely happy. What I was saying in the post you quoted, was that many were saying 'It's time for a black doctor' or 'it's time for a woman doctor' and then the same voices collectively sighing in disappointment when another white actor was chosen and saying 'Dr Who makers chickened out of a black Doctor', 'Dr Who makers are still the establishment and sexist in not making the Doctor a woman', well, I don't buy that, I think such voices are calling for change for change's sake, the appeasing of some need to make the character black or a woman or any other random combination which would not give a white male result because it ticks some box for political correctness, rather than because he or she would have been a good actor in the role.
That was the point I was raising, not that I am against the Doctor being anything other than a white dude, but that the clamor for the change should not exist and that making the casting of the role into a race/gender issue is a hijacking of the casting of the next Doctor by an agenda which, I think, doesn't give much of a gak about enjoying a scifi show and is instead entirely focused on ticking that box I mentioned earlier.
Neil Gaiman, a chap I normally have infinite time for (and who mentioned the role was offered to a black actor who turned it down), said that the time was not right for a female Doctor, but that the next Doctor should be a woman, I strongly disagree, the time has always been right to just say 'ta-da! I regenerated as a woman, right, lets get on with the show' instead of pondering if the time is right for a woman doctor, the ramifications of a woman Doctor and what this means to the world and the changing face of society.
It should mean nothing.
Just make sure Who-ever it is is great to watch, the stories are good and I'm all for it.
Back to Dr Who, on the endless gnashing of teeth about why not black, why not female, why not asian or whatever, my question back is simply why should we, The Doctor has regenerated many times, with each regen, showing a variety of ages, hair, accent but no variation previously to gender or outward appearance of 'race' (he isn't European either, he's an alien). We should not be changing things like this in the name of equality for equality's sake. Equality and the serious issues faced by those who are discriminated against are, I strongly believe, undermined a great deal when it becomes mired in trivia like this, which is counterproductive and ends up belittling equality as 'political correctness gone mad'.
IMO, if they made one female Doctor, there's a whole string of jokes that they could roll out. But, I think they don't because many/most of those sorts of jokes would not fit in with the Doctor Who universe.
IMO, if they made one female Doctor, there's a whole string of jokes that they could roll out. But, I think they don't because many/most of those sorts of jokes would not fit in with the Doctor Who universe.
One shudders at the inevitable 'Pregnant Doctor' story arch which seems to come about due to the way TV writers seem to think almost as inevitably as a Hitler mention in a thread about politics.
Oh, I'm sure I've seen him in a ton of stuf, I just don't know a lot of actors names, but John Hurt always got a special mention in the opening credits of Merlin.
In one of the good examples for why we keep the BBC around. Today, on a Bank Holiday - usually one of the big days where TV channels bring out their big films, the BBC have been reshowing "Doctor Who at the Proms" this afternoon. (Probably now on iplayer again, hopefully).
Hopefully a bunch of kids did end up watching it and get into music more.
And that's me as someone with absolutely no musical inclinations or talent whatsoever.
Technically, they already brought them back in the new series once. (They were at the Pandorica or so I've heard.)
As with most old monsters they brought back though, they update them a bit. I really liked the updated look/feel of the ice warrior, so I'm okay with this.
Technically, they already brought them back in the new series once. (They were at the Pandorica or so I've heard.)
As with most old monsters they brought back though, they update them a bit. I really liked the updated look/feel of the ice warrior, so I'm okay with this.
Having been to the Doctor Who Experience and seen both iterations of the Ice Warrior in person, I look forward to seeing what they do with the Zygons.
-Shrike- wrote: Having been to the Doctor Who Experience and seen both iterations of the Ice Warrior in person, I look forward to seeing what they do with the Zygons.
From the brief glimpses we've seen, I'm optimistic for the zygon 'redesign', as they seem pretty close visually to the originals, only less clunky. I'm not at all a fan of the current cybermen and not really of the Ice Warrior redux (I think they still should have left the helmet on the whole time), but these zygons look good.
I'm somewhere between cautiously optimistic, absolutely terrified they're going to mess it up, and massively excited because it Dr Who...with Zygons... And Daleks... And John Hurt!
After watching the trailer and seeing the return of the 2005 style Daleks, I'm really looking forward to this. The brightly coloured blobs new-style Daleks get on my nerves.
-Shrike- wrote: After watching the trailer and seeing the return of the 2005 style Daleks, I'm really looking forward to this. The brightly coloured blobs new-style Daleks get on my nerves.
You mean the iDaleks?
I'm avoiding watching anything to do with this episode, so I get it all at once.
NecronLord3 wrote: Then the incarnation that the 9th, 10th, and 11th have claimed to be is wrong. Though this could be the secret that several characters have accused the doctor of keeping and the answer to the question Doctor Who? could be answered by the Doctors actual incarnation number.
Exactly. Basically, as said in this episode, that incarnation is the one who broke the promise and was not 'The Doctor'. It means that the 9th, 10th and 11th Doctors are actually correctly the 9th, 10th and 11th doctors because the one after 8 was not the doctor just the 8th regeneration.
I laid it out a couple pages back like this: - Hartnell - 1st Doctor, Unregenerated (or X previous regenerations that are unknown) - Troughton - 2nd Doctor, 1st Regeneration - Pertwee - 3rd Doctor, 2nd Regeneration - T Baker - 4th Doctor, 3rd Regeneration - Davison - 5th Doctor, 4th Regeneration - C Baker - 6th Doctor, 5th Regeneration - McCoy - 7th Doctor, 6th Regeneration - McGann - 8th Doctor, 7th Regeneration - Hurt - Not a Doctor, 8th Regeneration - Eccleston - 9th Doctor, 9th Regeneration - Tennant - 10th Doctor, 10th Regeneration - Smith - 11th Doctor, 11th Regeneration
- 'Valeyard' - Not a Doctor, between 12th and 13th Regeneration according to the Master
Bingo. Page 48.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, super geek points because in the video McGann's doctor references a bunch of companions who only existed in the Audio Dramas between the movie and the new Who series giving legitimacy to those episode in 'real canon'.
So, I'm not particularly a Dr Who fan, but I'm very impressed that they got McGann involved. I had a sense he was almost the black sheep of Dr Who. "Oh, he was in that American thing, best pretend he didn't exist."
Didn't there use to to be a limit of 11 regenerations? Has this been retconned? I thought that Smith's Doctor was supposed to be the final incarnation, and he was hurtling towards his doom?
Hmm, saw that last night. Excellent short to set up the special, also loved the slip in on the idea that regenerations could allow a change of gender, something not fully confirmed in show before this short if I recall correctly.
Regarding the regen limit, there are a number of theories as to how they're going to get round it.
1) When River gave the Doc her regenerations to revive him he got 'recharged' as it were and can now use those.
2) The regen limit was imposed and controlled by the Time Lord parliament (proven when the Master had to go to Gallifrey to get more regenerations. Episode I think was called The Deadly Assassin). No Time Lords, no limit.
3) New one, the Elixir from Karn in the episode above fully restored his regenerations as it supposedly grants 'eternal youth'.
There are a few more, but these are the main ones I think.
Good point on being past 12 already, but the Valeyard is technically a 'possible future' from somewhere between the 12th and 13th. ie. Between Smith and Capaldi factoring in Hurt shifting all the numbers by one.
Also, I can't be the only one here who wants to see more of McGann. The movie was never enough, and this episode proves he can still Doctor with the best of them. Come on, BBC, give him a spin-off series about the build-up to the Time War!
Wolfstan wrote: What about when Ecclestone died? He took a hell of a lot energy on board, could that be a reset?
Another interesting theory. Not one I've seen before, but certainly feasible. I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that Moffat claims he has a plan for the limit and how to resolve it, but there are so many possibilities that it should be fairly simple. No need to worry that Capaldi will be the last (although technically with the War Doctor and the tennant-tennant regeneration possibly counting, Smith is the 13th, so this could be resolved sooner than we think)
John Hurt was listed as "The War Doctor" in the credits of that mini episode.
Let the debate continue!
The writers have said the numbering as is, is correct, IIRC it was 11 who said that he did many things but those things were not in the name of "The Doctor" I guess you could say it's like being Sybil. Sure she technically did a lot of weird stuff, but if you look deeper, or believe her, it wasn't her at all, but someone else borrowing her skin for a bit
Not as good as the last one, but still pretty cool, and the Fall of Arcadia is something that has become almost a myth in nuwho. Tennant mentions it when facing down the Cult of Skaro, 'one day I might even come to terms with that.'. Seeing it from the soldier's POV was a little too much like the first level of any FPS for me (look over here... look up... look down ect). The dalek was a little predictable but still cool.
Still very much excited for Saturday, and also for An Adventure in Space ad Time on BBC2 tonight, should be very good.
An Adventure in Space and Time was an exceptionally moving, well-written and stunning piece of television, I recommend anyone who didn't see it last night looking it up. Even if you're not that into Old Who, it's a great piece of drama and well worth watching.
I never was able too get into DW. But I've just seen the 50th anniversarie and I am hooked! My favourite part was in the end with all the doctors standing together (well sort off).
Interesting that they included an eye shot of the next doctor but didn't have him at the ending.
Also a nice new epic quest/story arc for the doctor to occupy himself with in the next few series.
I really enjoyed it, loved the hat tip to Tom Baker as the most popular doctor but a bit more of John Hurt would have been even better, perhaps 90 minutes rather than the odd timing of 75 mins.
Also good work on organising a worldwide screening with other networks for simultaneous post discussion.
I wish there was more Time War and less Zygons... would have loved to have seen the Nightmare Child or the army of meanwhiles and neverwheres and the could have been king.
BUT
It hit all the right notes to me, it did what it needed to, bringing back Gallifrey, redeeming the character, and setting up a great quest arc for the next series.
Great to get a peek at... what I guess now is the 13th, Capaldi
I will miss Matt Smith very much though, he was my Doctor.
The Curator was Tom Baker's Doctor, not an unknown incarnation, and AFAIK the Valeyard is not necessarily a numbered incarnation, either, but more of a title based on his actions, or rather something akin the Dream Lord - existing as part of an existing Doctor as opposed to an altogether separate one.
Wow, the episode was brilliant. Just brilliant. Fantastic, even.
Funny, well-written, great acting, and JOHN HURT! I loved the way Hurt seemed to become the voice of Fandom, bemoaning the overuse of the sonic and endless arm-waving. He was the perfect gap between old and new style of Doctor. I did feel that Billie Piper's role was a little forced, but still worked.
Would have liked more Time War, less Zygon, or just a longer episode, as some of the Zygon stuff was pure gold. The rabbit scene was hilarious. I'd liked to have seen a proper resolution to the Zygon plot, but it's not essential.
The shots of the old Doctors and Capaldi were great, and now we've had the war Doctor-9th Doctor Regeneration (if not in full) we've now seen the complete set. I liked the appearances from the past that have been deniedfor months. Tom Baker was also a nice surprise, even if he had announced it to the world a few days ago online.
The change to the Time War plot was very well-handled, changing the setting and character of the show without breaking it. Should go somewhere interesting.
Looking forward, the teaser for Christmas looks great. Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels, the Silence... This is hopefully going to wrap up a lot of plots so it can really get going in the new direction in 2014 with Capaldi at the helm.
Also, if you haven't seen the '5-ish Doctors rebooted' on the BBC site/red button service, check it out, it's hilariously good.
Regarding the Valeyard, he is a representation of a possible future of the doctor between his 12th and 13th incarnations (ie Smith and Capaldi), so it's not an actual regeneration. The Dream Lord is just a manifestation of his subconscious, and the Curator is I think an alternative version of Tom Baker's doctor. Not too sure on that last one though.
Ah, I'm worn out now. Probably going to go and watch Day of the Doctor again now....
That episode was fething amazing.
The three minute scene showing the actual fall of Arcadia was so incredible, I almost forgot to breath.
And by far the best line: "What are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?"
The close second being "Geronimo!" "Allons-y!" "For God's sake, Gallifrey stands!"
And by far the best line: "What are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?"
The close second being "Geronimo!" "Allons-y!" "For God's sake, Gallifrey stands!"
Agreed, Hurt's dialogue and criticisms of the new doctors was great. I loved the 'Can't you say anything without waving your arms around?' and the comments on the outfits and reliance on the sonic. The Tennant-Smith dialogue was also awesome.
MS pulls out larger sonic
DT: Someone's compensating.
MS: Compensating for what?
DT: Regeneration, it's a lucky dip.
I liked it, but I was really hoping to see the Nightmare Child and a reference to the Crucible falling into its jaws.
Also, it seems that now, all that Smith has to do is go to Trenzalor, regenerate (because he won't want to go, Tennant says so) into Capaldi, find Gallifrey, then be gifted with a new set of regenerations for saving them from the time war.
Also, doesn't that mean that the Doctor's mother is still down there before serving as a "weeping angel?" Also, this means that something can be done with the loose ends with Rassillon from The End of Time.
EDIT: And thank you, Moffat. You didn't turn the anniversary special into an "I miss Rose" pity party. (That's what I was expecting as soon as it was announced that she'd be in the episode.)
Avatar 720 wrote: The Curator was Tom Baker's Doctor, not an unknown incarnation, and AFAIK the Valeyard is not necessarily a numbered incarnation, either, but more of a title based on his actions, or rather something akin the Dream Lord - existing as part of an existing Doctor as opposed to an altogether separate one.
The curator said that the Doctor would return to old faces in the future. Granted, I just watched it but... I think this is a future incarnation that chose Tom Baker's face to go back to, not Tom Baker's doctor. After all, if it was Tom Baker's doctor that would be some explaining to do. As for the Valeyard, even if it is a title based on actions it is a future incarnation that takes that title. The dream lord is an incarnation that wasn't a doctor, just part of his consciousness because of dream pollen or whatever.
The explanation for the curator is that the producer wanted a cameo role for Tom Baker as the oldest surviving Dr. Who actor, who is also the longest serving in the role and one of the most popular.
His on screen persona may have represented the current Doctor’s subconscious mind integrating changed knowledge of the outcome of the Time War.
Wow. This is probably the best NuWho episode yet. It hit every note. Would I have liked more Time War, less Zygon? Yep. In the end, that doesn't really matter. My only real complaint was that it was too short - and extra 15 minutes would've been perfect.
Also, some more random thoughts and observations:
Did anyone else wipe away tears of joy when the Doctors realized they could save Gallifrey? Man. I haven't felt that much emotion in ages.
I totally didn't expect to see Peter Capaldi's angry-puffin eyes staring out of the screen at me. I quite literally whooped!
The parallels between the Doctors' situation and the Human/Zygon situation were really neat.
Overall, I'm very excited to see that there's a huge new plot arc coming up, one that could very possible change everything about the show. I mean, the return of the Timelords would be HUGE. I'm really gonna miss Matt, though - I started DW with season 6, so I'm very emotionally attached to him. Still, Capaldi will most likely be brilliant.
Anyways, I need to go have a lie-down or I'm afraid my heart will burst from excitement.
I have been musing this. I wonder if we will see a pretty young male assistant when Capaldi takes the reins, in order to retain the seeming horde of young female viewers the show currently has?
I predict a floppy haired fella as an assistant if the viewing figures are deemed to dip with Capaldi returning the Doctor to old irritable bastard status.
Overall, I'm very excited to see that there's a huge new plot arc coming up, one that could very possible change everything about the show. I mean, the return of the Timelords would be HUGE. I'm really gonna miss Matt, though - I started DW with season 6, so I'm very emotionally attached to him. Still, Capaldi will most likely be brilliant.
I also started with the 11th Doctor, but gone back and watched most everything else (working through Classic Who now). I do wonder though, if they bring back the Time Lords, will the be like from the Christmas Special that gave us Matt Smith? (evil masterminds trying to come out of "exile") or will the be more or less, good guys?
MeanGreenStompa wrote:I have been musing this. I wonder if we will see a pretty young male assistant when Capaldi takes the reins, in order to retain the seeming horde of young female viewers the show currently has?
I predict a floppy haired fella as an assistant if the viewing figures are deemed to dip with Capaldi returning the Doctor to old irritable bastard status.
I personally think that if they get some air time for male companions/assistants, they may go with their tried and true, Captain Jack Harkness. Or, they'd probably go a similar route to the Rory/Amy dynamic, though perhaps siblings instead of married couple?
And especially since Clara is all alternative reality / reincarnation / splintered through time stuff anyway, they could very well get a lot of mileage out of something like Clara's brother but not Clara-the-companion's brother. Especially if the brother's Clara has (yet another) horrible death.
I enjoyed it, I found the Zygons a bit misplaced and they often seemed reduced to slobbering monsters, especially when in their natural orange form, that growl instead of their more talkative and quiet menace of their original appearance.
The story changed what we know about the time war well without hitting a reset button, the insertion of another Doctor between the others was done well and John Hurt was a great addition. It's a shame Eccleston didn't want to be involved but he has his reasons, and his absence did seem a bit obvious at times, but we had a good multi doctor story all the same and all the older doctors were included as much as could be practical.
Now I'll be buying that not-John Hurt Doctor from Heresy Miniatures. Oh yes, need all my 12 Doctors together.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: Did anyone else really like how Moffat handled Rose? I'd take this Rose over RTD's any day.
~Tim?
To be honest, I did. The excuse did seem a little shoehorned in at first, but on the other hand, it was far far better than her other reappearances (like the one in Stolen Earth/Journey's End) which seemed to be just yet another repeat of the frankly poor Doctor-Rose love story. So yeah, better 'consciousness of ultimate weapon' than 'the Doctor's ex shows up again, cue snogging.'
The Five(ish) Doctors was amazing. Laughed constantly at it and am left wishing for a series featuring these three roaming time and space.
It was, by a country mile, more enjoyable and a better tribute to the 50 years of the series than the entirely recent-centric 'special', which really fell flat for me.
Avatar 720 wrote: The Curator was Tom Baker's Doctor, not an unknown incarnation, and AFAIK the Valeyard is not necessarily a numbered incarnation, either, but more of a title based on his actions, or rather something akin the Dream Lord - existing as part of an existing Doctor as opposed to an altogether separate one.
The curator said that the Doctor would return to old faces in the future. Granted, I just watched it but... I think this is a future incarnation that chose Tom Baker's face to go back to, not Tom Baker's doctor. After all, if it was Tom Baker's doctor that would be some explaining to do. As for the Valeyard, even if it is a title based on actions it is a future incarnation that takes that title. The dream lord is an incarnation that wasn't a doctor, just part of his consciousness because of dream pollen or whatever.
I took away from it the same thing you did, that from the "You know, I really think you might" line, to the "in the years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few, but just the old favorites" he was implying that he was a future incarnation once again using the Tom Baker face. As for the Valeyard (who we know is still out there waiting from The Name of the Doctor), it makes you wonder where he is going to fall (somewhere between 12th which we now know is Matt Smith) and final incarnation with original limit being 13. It'll be fun to see how they get around it all. Doing what they did in the 50th without retconning anything was an amazing bit of storytelling.
Also as much as I would have liked to see Bad Wolf and interact with more than just the War Doctor I think they did it right. I know a lot of speculation was that they were going to bring Human Doctor and Rose over from Pete's World and I am so glad they didn't do that. The focus of the special was exactly where it should be, on setting the course for the future of the show. It paid homage to the past in a significant way, without putting the focus there. All of the Time Lord High Council scheming from The End of Time is intact, and even has references to the Day of the Doctor period with how the War Doctor has disappeared and that "We know his intention. He still possesses the Moment and he'll use it to destroy Dalek and Time Lord alike." It's all been tied together nicely, and really makes you think about some of the things from the new era in a different perspective.
The special really highlighted how much I despise Matt smith and adore David Tenant. I was also quite disappointed that the three doctors had a "everyone lives" moment regarding Gallifrey as I quite liked the 10th doctors survivor guilt, though I will admit it makes a lot more sense (especially for that finale when the time lords came out of stasis) having them alive.
Did a miss the resolution to the Zygons? Or was it simply just that they're negotiating now? What happens after five minutes when they remember which are which?
I'll be curious to see, if at all, they try to reconcile how this fits with the events of "The End of Time", which was also set on the last day of the war but saw The High Council try to destroy Earth to make a new Gallifrey.
I was entertained, but felt that it undercut a lot of the previous storyline, and I thought having the Doctor dealing with the past was a nice element added to the character from the earlier incarnations. I worry we are replacing character growth for a never ending search for the One Armed Man, so to speak.
Ahtman wrote: I'll be curious to see, if at all, they try to reconcile how this fits with the events of "The End of Time", which was also set on the last day of the war but saw The High Council try to destroy Earth to make a new Gallifrey.
From what I recall, End of Time took place in 'the final days' of the Time War, rather than explicitly the last day. Rassilon mentions the Doctor 'has the Moment' but not that he's used it yet. As such, it all happened as normal and was stopped by Tennant. There's also the line from the Time Lord Commander, 'Damn the High Council, their plans have already failed', possibly referencing End Of Time and the Final Sanction. So I think we can assume that Rassilon fails as already established, and DOTD is set after that incident.
Where this really gets interesting is that it means that The Master was potentially on Gallifrey when it was frozen. So The Doctor flies off and finds it, gets given his new cycle of regenerations, and then out pops the Master, reasserting him as a potential recurring character without any kind of cheesy cop-out needed. They've kind of done it with the Daleks already, having them still present as a threat and just defeating them on odd occasions (An entire Dalek fleet survived Asylum), rather than the annual extinction (followed by one ship 'falling through time') they've suffered for the last few years, so the same could happen with the Master.
He could be a projection of future/past Doctor, like the Watcher or K'anpo Rimpoche from Planet of the Spiders. I think it's better if it isn't addressed actually.
I see quite a few people bringing up the Valeyard as an issue during the Doctors last incarnation but even by the confused standards of that story (Trial of a Timelord) it was fairly clear he was only a possible future Doctor distilled from the very worst of the Doctor's possible futures, he wasn't actually the Doctor's true future self.
Last night I ordered my John Hurt Doctor from Heresy...
I wonder if Tom Baker represented the choice that the Doctor made right at the end of his time. He chooses to live out his days as that regeneration?
Have to say that the Doctor getting so under the skin of the Time Lord hierarchy was brilliant. They have the choice of total destruction or letting him try out his idea... and there is a brief pause as they weigh it up. Brilliant. It just shows how important a Time Lord the Doctor is. Here's to more background fluff coming out. Modern film technology should allow some good stuff to come out.
... just had a thought. What now happens to the Master and Timothy Dalton's Time Lord character?
best doctor? well got to be Mr J Hurt hasn't it? he was in the 40k movie and also voiced a damn dragon! seriously though the top 4 are Hurt, Tennent, Baker and smith
Ahtman wrote: I'll be curious to see, if at all, they try to reconcile how this fits with the events of "The End of Time", which was also set on the last day of the war but saw The High Council try to destroy Earth to make a new Gallifrey.
I was entertained, but felt that it undercut a lot of the previous storyline, and I thought having the Doctor dealing with the past was a nice element added to the character from the earlier incarnations. I worry we are replacing character growth for a never ending search for the One Armed Man, so to speak.
They seem to have explained it as this created a "bubble" within his timeline, yeah he "fixed" Gallifrey, but the way in which he did it, 10 and 11 (and theoretically 9) don't remember, so they still have the conscious memory of destroying their home planet/people.
... just had a thought. What now happens to the Master and Timothy Dalton's Time Lord character?
I reckon they were still on Gallifrey, although in what state I'm not sure, but there's scope to bring them both back as and when Gallifrey is rediscovered. As I said earlier, a plot arc involving the Master and the Doctor, both with brand-new cycles of regenerations, would be inetersting to see.
taffy2499 wrote:best doctor? well got to be Mr J Hurt hasn't it? he was in the 40k movie and also voiced a damn dragon! seriously though the top 4 are Hurt, Tennent, Baker and smith
No Pertwee? No taste...
But seriously, though John Hurt's doctor was nothing short of amazing, both in terms of character and acting. He is an amazing actor, an did very well.
Just for the record, my favourite Doctors: 1) Pertwee 2) Tennant 3) Hurt 4) Smith 5) Tom Baker.
Eccleston and McGann both needed more time, but showed great potential. Go on, BBC, give McGann the series he's deserved for 17 years!
Graphite wrote: Damn I've missed David Tennant's doctor. Only one more episode of Matt Bloody Smith left!
Thank god.
Me and the two mates I watched the special with were hoping he'd die early.
Ah, the haters are finally starting to come out of the woodwork now that the blaze of euphoria over the special is dwindling. Time for me to be pretending the fandom doesn't exist again...
I just can't understand people that hate kids. I mean, I'm the kinda person that never really sees any reason to outright hate anything* (I'd rather use the energy to find something to enjoy), so there's that. But there's also the fact that kids' brains are still undergoing massive amounts development and growth...I think that a lotta people that loathe children forget this and expect them to act like little adults.
Alfndrate wrote: I'm so glad that there are people that like Eccleston just as much as I do
It's okay. You're not alone anymore.
I don't understand why not many people love Eccleston. As well as the excellent scripts, Eccleston's Doctor was kinda like a sarcastic, normal bloke, and so made the series really scary. The episode with that gas mask child is the scariest Dr Who episode of all time.
Yeah, Ecclestone was pretty amazing as the Doctor, especially having to both stay true to the original character while making it relevant and engaging to a new audience, which was something he did exceptionally well.
And I agree, The Empty Child is one of the most awesome episodes ever. It still stands as the only episode ever to have freaked me out, and the scene where he sends it to its room only to then realise he's in that room is just brilliantly done.
The only problem was that he needed more time, 1 series was not enough for the character to properly develop ad evolve.
But yes, he was an exceptionally good Doctor given the circumstances.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, Ecclestone was pretty amazing as the Doctor, especially having to both stay true to the original character while making it relevant and engaging to a new audience, which was something he did exceptionally well.
And I agree, The Empty Child is one of the most awesome episodes ever. It still stands as the only episode ever to have freaked me out, and the scene where he sends it to its room only to then realise he's in that room is just brilliantly done.
The only problem was that he needed more time, 1 series was not enough for the character to properly develop ad evolve.
But yes, he was an exceptionally good Doctor given the circumstances.
I think he either left the series because he didn't want to get typecast (a good decision) or that he got angry with the production team. He doesn't want to disclose the full details.
Anyway, if John Hurt was the war doctor, does that make him the ninth doctor? And Eccleston the tenth, Tennant the eleventh and so on?
Really excited for Capaldi, as well. I think he's going to be eccentric without being stupid (Matt Smith), serious without being boring. I hope he says loads of sarcastic remarks, too.
Alfndrate wrote: And by some wonky Doctor Who fluff, Time Lords don't regenerate after their 13th iteration, but there are of course exceptions to this rule.
We also don't know if any of the following may have affected it:
- River giving him all her regens reset his or gave hium extras
- He finds Gallifrey and the High Council gives him another 12 regens (similar to the offer they made to the Master)
- It was never a biological law, but a Time Lord law and since there's no one around to enforce it...
Actually, they Retconned it. the 13 regeneration are just rules made by the council. They can do it indefinitly.
Now, I found it lacking, The Big bads where rubber suits, bad ones. No high stakes, No epicness TBH
The Day of the Doctor 50th special was fantastic! As for the Regenerations I seem to remember Moffit (or maybe Davis) commenting in an interview that it was Time Lord law as regenerations after the initial twelve started to have issues with personality degradation or some such.
Alfndrate wrote: And by some wonky Doctor Who fluff, Time Lords don't regenerate after their 13th iteration, but there are of course exceptions to this rule.
We also don't know if any of the following may have affected it:
- River giving him all her regens reset his or gave hium extras
- He finds Gallifrey and the High Council gives him another 12 regens (similar to the offer they made to the Master)
- It was never a biological law, but a Time Lord law and since there's no one around to enforce it...
Or somebody misheard him and it is actually thirty, not thirteen? Just a speculation.
Alfndrate wrote: I'm so glad that there are people that like Eccleston just as much as I do
It's okay. You're not alone anymore.
I don't understand why not many people love Eccleston. As well as the excellent scripts, Eccleston's Doctor was kinda like a sarcastic, normal bloke, and so made the series really scary. The episode with that gas mask child is the scariest Dr Who episode of all time.
Personally, while I don't mind Eccleston as The Doctor, the biggest draw back to his series, is Rose. She quite literally kills any desire I would have to like him/ his Doctor. Personally, I think that if he had been able to stick around a bit longer, and gotten Martha instead, he may have been more likeable for me.
I do think it somewhat sad also that with the writing he had, his companion was able to so thoroughly destroy my enjoyment of his portrayal, but YMMV.
Given the revelations about Gallifrey still being around, I'm pretty sure they're going for the granting of another cycle. There's a precedent in The Deadly Assassin, where the master is seeking another set, so they don't need to retcon anything, and it makes sense given the new plot arc.
And what with the Silence plot arc apparently being wrapped up at Christmas, they're going to need a new overriding story. The Quest for Gallifrey+ Bonus Lives is making more and more sense.
Paradigm wrote: And what with the Silence plot arc apparently being wrapped up at Christmas, they're going to need a new overriding story. The Quest for Gallifrey+ Bonus Lives is making more and more sense.
Doctor Who and the Quest for the Infinite Arcade Tokens
Alfndrate wrote: I'm so glad that there are people that like Eccleston just as much as I do
It's okay. You're not alone anymore.
I don't understand why not many people love Eccleston. As well as the excellent scripts, Eccleston's Doctor was kinda like a sarcastic, normal bloke, and so made the series really scary. The episode with that gas mask child is the scariest Dr Who episode of all time.
the biggest draw back to his series is Rose.
Somebody who dislikes Rose?! I think this is the first time I have encountered anyone with such an opinion. Why did she ruin it for you?
I must admit I am not the biggest fan of Rose. I found her character very annoying, the Bad Wolf thing got tired, and the romance with the Doctor really annoyed me. He spent 900 years pre-Rose avoiding relationships with humans, and all of a sudden he's head over heels with Rose? No, sorry, I don't buy that.
Rose also destroyed the character of Martha Jones, which was a shame.
hotsauceman1 wrote: She is just not that fun of a character. She doesnt have the sense of Awe the other do.
Explain that better.
Companions are supposed to be Awe-inspiring or are supposed to be inspired with awe?
She goes t these cool places with the docter and all she has is this slack jawed look like "Uhhh, what is this derp" And her back and forth is just not funny.
Explain. You mean the idea that there were clues up until the final story?
I mean that it was fine in the one series, but when it's still being used in series 4 and even as recently as last week, it does get a little repetitive. I just think that bringing her back again after Doomsday in Stolen Earth was a bit forced and uninspired, and prevented the Doctor from moving on.
He spent 900 years pre-Rose avoiding relationships with humans, and all of a sudden he's head over heels with Rose? No, sorry, I don't buy that.
Knowing what we know now about the War doctor, perhaps Eccleston needed someone, needed true companionship or love in order to get over what he did.
Even the biggest loner needs love sometimes.
Fair point, that is certainly something that came across in the series. I just find it a little sudden given the character of older Doctors. I can see the reasons, I'm just not a fan of it.
Somebody who dislikes Rose?! I think this is the first time I have encountered anyone with such an opinion. Why did she ruin it for you?
Well, I agree with many of the reasons already presented, but I just don't find her all that attractive (which could also come down to wardrobe choices, but the photo posted in thread isnt much better), and her voice is fething annoying and just grates on my nerves (though, to be fair, not as bad as Donna Noble's does). IMO, the doctor tends to like intelligent, witty and independent types for his companions, none of which describe Rose.
hotsauceman1 wrote: She is just not that fun of a character. She doesnt have the sense of Awe the other do.
Let me guess, you are too young to have had a crush on Tapenga, right?
From what, Boy Meets World? If yes, nope I grew up watching that show
Weird, Piper pushes my buttons in the same way Fishel used too. And however bad her acting could get, I would still get suckered in by them hips & lips.
Basically, the Doctor has used all his regens already, with Hurt being introduced and Tennant using one to save himself in 'Jounery's End'
I bet it will be all wibbly wobbly
Well the short before Day of the Doctors show the Doctor using a "potion" to help become the War Doctor (may not count as a true regen) and River used up her regens to save the Doctor. Maybe she didn't so much use them up as transfer them to the Doctor, less the one need to save him of course.
I'm also not a fan of Rose. That is, RTD's Rose. Now, the Rose in The Day of The Doctor, on the other hand, was really cool. Would've been wonderful if she had been like that during the RTD years.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: I'm also not a fan of Rose. That is, RTD's Rose. Now, the Rose in The Day of The Doctor, on the other hand, was really cool. Would've been wonderful if she had been like that during the RTD years.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: I'm also not a fan of Rose. That is, RTD's Rose. Now, the Rose in The Day of The Doctor, on the other hand, was really cool. Would've been wonderful if she had been like that during the RTD years.
Rose wasn't in DotD. The Moment was.
Then why did she call herself 'Bad Wolf'? And what interest is there for the Moment in changing the fate of Gallifrey?
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: I'm also not a fan of Rose. That is, RTD's Rose. Now, the Rose in The Day of The Doctor, on the other hand, was really cool. Would've been wonderful if she had been like that during the RTD years.
Rose wasn't in DotD. The Moment was.
Then why did she call herself 'Bad Wolf'? And what interest is there for the Moment in changing the fate of Gallifrey?
The Moment picked a form from the Doctor's past/future; she called herself that because there was a connection between them that would be known to the doctor at the point the Moment picked from. There is also no interest from the Moment in changing anything; Rose was simply the Moment's conscience. It wasn't in its interest to do anything, it was simply the fact that there could have been another way.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: I'm also not a fan of Rose. That is, RTD's Rose. Now, the Rose in The Day of The Doctor, on the other hand, was really cool. Would've been wonderful if she had been like that during the RTD years.
Rose wasn't in DotD. The Moment was.
Then why did she call herself 'Bad Wolf'? And what interest is there for the Moment in changing the fate of Gallifrey?
The Moment picked a form from the Doctor's past/future; she called herself that because there was a connection between them that would be known to the doctor at the point the Moment picked from. There is also no interest from the Moment in changing anything; Rose was simply the Moment's conscience. It wasn't in its interest to do anything, it was simply the fact that there could have been another way.
She said that the Moment picked a form from the Doctor's past/future. She then said, "I think I'm called... Rose Tyler. No. Yes. No, sorry. I this form, I'm called... Bad Wolf."
Now, I'm not saying it's actually Rose there, but I do wonder why the Interface said that. It may be that she just represented another 'harbinger of the apocalypse', like Rose became when she was exposed to the TARDIS's engine. But it struck me as odd, and I wonder if there's not going to be a tie in later.
Another thing that struck me as weird was the bit about the scarf-girl hating her own sister. That seemed just a bit out of place.
Another thing that struck me as weird was the bit about the scarf-girl hating her own sister. That seemed just a bit out of place.
The Zygon talked about how it wished it had taken the "better looking" form of her sister. It was just implying that she was jealous of her sister's looks, in my opinion.
kay, there’s been a lot of fuss about upcoming announcements and releases regarding missing Doctor Who episodes. Bleeding Cool first ran stories about what’s now dubbed the Omnirumour about rumours of a found horde of the episodes in question, to a mixture of elation and condemnation.
Then Web Of Fear and episodes of Enemy Of The World were rereleased and suddenly people thought there might be something in this.
Since then, there’s been quite a cottage industry in the release and the regulation of such rumours. Last week press were running the stories that the announcement of Marco Polo would be made at the Doctor Who Afterparty on BBC3. We were wary of that, didn’t run it and, indeed, it did not come to pass.
But the Marco Polo rumours have been hard to ignore.
This is what is currently being rumoured amongst international television types over what they are expecting. As ever, bear in mind that this is hearsay and tittle tattle and, again, doesn’t come direvtly from anyone who has seen a frame in question.
But that was true last time as well.
But from what Bleeding Cool are told, Marco Polo and the Massacre Of St Bartholomew’s Eve, both starring William Hartnell, are nearly ready to go.
The rest are in negotiations regarding restoration with the revived-TIEA director Philip Morris. There are expectations for Power Of The Daleks and the Macra Terror to follow… though some also believe there’s an Evil Of The Daleks to come as well.
Expect everything to be denied of course. Maybe it’s all nothing more than idle gossip. Just remember the denials last time…
A BRIEF STATEMENT .T.I.E.A DOES NOT HOLD ANY MISSING EPISODES OF THE LONG RUNNING DR WHO SERIES. THE ORIGINAL VIDEO TAPES WERE WIPED SUBSEQUENT FILM COPIES WERE EITHER RETURNED TO THE BBC AND SENT TO LANDFILL ODD FRAGMENTS HAVE SURFACED TWO EPISODES ON 16MM FILM BUT THATS IT. THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION LIKE MANY OTHERS WERE DESTROYED AS THEY HAD NO FURTHER COMMERCIAL VALUE .THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END.I am sorry if this upsets some people but these are the facts.I have also become aware of the tracking of some of our clients shipments these are local cultural materials sent to us for migration to a modern format as the playback equipment in the country of origin no longer exists and as such is the best road to preserve international cultural heritage .I will be making no more statements on this subject.Philip MORRIS Executive director T.i.e.a
and scheduling wise..
This is how we are hearing Doctor Who Series Eight will break down. Again, nothing official, nothing released, don’t regard this as gospel. Or we’ll send Malcom Tucker round.
Fourteen episodes, split across two years.
Seven episodes, including a Christmas Special in 2014, including that two parter Dalek story. First episode on April 19th. And similarly, seven episodes, including a Christmas Special in 2015.
And that is how long Peter Capaldi is locked down to play the character. Doesn’t mean he won’t extend it, of course.
Let's hope he is around longer than that.
in the meantime
BAD wolf err language -- seriously -- ahoy in that
I'm not too worried about Capaldi only being on the show for a season. Don't all BBC actors have to renew their contracts on a yearly basis? I know Tennant and Matt did.
I lapsed from my Doctor Who boycott to watch the 50th special, it was nice to see David Tenant as more than half of his episodes were tolerable, even a couple good and i didn't come out thinking it was bad.
John Hurt was relatively interesting but felt, to me, underdeveloped. Yes i am aware that it might have went beyond a (nearly) feature length episode to have a really fleshed out character but a couple more scenes would have been nice. My main problem is that he didn't seem particularly different, when the build up would suggest he very much was.
Another issue was the war scene in the painting. Why were Timelord combatants just Grunts? In the First series of 'Nu-Who' and i think a couple of Tenant episodes the war was described in Vague terms and the impression was of a pretty Unfathomable conflict, the name itself 'Timewar' would also suggest this. I am, again, aware of the slight unfairness of this criticism but i feel something more unique could have been shown than a 1940's air raid with flying saucers.
The climactic action scene was cool but made little sense. It also completely went against the fact that earlier on the other doctors were ready to blow the place up with him, with zero hints that they knew of an alternative. Either scene would have been a satisfying climax but trying to put in both riddled it with plot holes.
All in All it was enjoyable and quite thrilling when it needed to be
EDIT: I know it is incredibly bad criticism to suggest one's own alternatives but i think David Tenant should have said the exact number of children. '2.4 billion'(iirc) felt too vague.
First time commenting here but since we are talking about the 50th...
I thought all in all it was good episode, a few plot holes here and there and nothing overly fantastic but overall i thought it was a fitting tribute to 50 years of the show.
the little references and links to other episodes and doctors was fantastic and the way they executed it really did sum up the franchise i felt.
The War Doctor was a little under developed as Perkustin has said but i feel it worked, adding much more would have seriously over complicated the episode and ruined it.
The main thing for me was the content of all 13 doctors, that i felt was fantastic. it shows in my eyes that Moffat at least plans to stick to the doctor's claim of only 12 regenerations, rather than stretching the franchise out beyond its reach and potentially ruining 50 years.
Perkustin wrote: Another issue was the war scene in the painting. Why were Timelord combatants just Grunts? In the First series of 'Nu-Who' and i think a couple of Tenant episodes the war was described in Vague terms and the impression was of a pretty Unfathomable conflict, the name itself 'Timewar' would also suggest this. I am, again, aware of the slight unfairness of this criticism but i feel something more unique could have been shown than a 1940's air raid with flying saucers.
The Time War was unfathomable in size and scope, not in the power of the individual combatants. The are Time Lords and then there are guys from Gallifrey. Most of the grunts are guys from Gallifrey.
The climactic action scene was cool but made little sense. It also completely went against the fact that earlier on the other doctors were ready to blow the place up with him, with zero hints that they knew of an alternative. Either scene would have been a satisfying climax but trying to put in both riddled it with plot holes.
The whole of Doctor Who is inevitable odds until the Doctor does something clever that saves the day. This is just the same thing.
i think David Tenant should have said the exact number of children. '2.4 billion'(iirc) felt too vague.
I thought 1940s sci fi goodness was the WHOLE point of the doctor. I like nu-doctor I think it's far superior to the original ( I grew up watching tom baker) , My favourite doctor of all time being eccleston, I just loved his manic , ragey personality.
Billy piper is one of my fave companions, but I also like the insane dalek, she's very watchable.
The making of the doctor drama thingy I found to be excellent and I got almost teary at one point .
Another issue was the war scene in the painting. Why were Timelord combatants just Grunts? In the First series of 'Nu-Who' and i think a couple of Tenant episodes the war was described in Vague terms and the impression was of a pretty Unfathomable conflict, the name itself 'Timewar' would also suggest this. I am, again, aware of the slight unfairness of this criticism but i feel something more unique could have been shown than a 1940's air raid with flying saucers...
...
.
As I understand it, most members of the “Time Lord” species are basically ordinary, apart from two hearts and such like. Only a small number of special Time Lords have the affinity with time energy to operate a Tardis. These would operate like commandos, doing time based special missions. The Time Lords obviously lost the war, so when the Daleks were besieging Gallifrey, the bulk of the troops on the ground were ordinary soldiers.
The Chancellery Guard have always died easily in the old series, they don't seem to be Timelords. It's a shame the grunts on the ground weren't designed with their aesthetic a bit more in mind rather than quite generic blokes with lasers.
Vermilion wrote: First time commenting here but since we are talking about the 50th...
I thought all in all it was good episode, a few plot holes here and there and nothing overly fantastic but overall i thought it was a fitting tribute to 50 years of the show.
the little references and links to other episodes and doctors was fantastic and the way they executed it really did sum up the franchise i felt.
The War Doctor was a little under developed as Perkustin has said but i feel it worked, adding much more would have seriously over complicated the episode and ruined it.
The main thing for me was the content of all 13 doctors, that i felt was fantastic. it shows in my eyes that Moffat at least plans to stick to the doctor's claim of only 12 regenerations, rather than stretching the franchise out beyond its reach and potentially ruining 50 years.
I don't know. The featurette after the show had the creators talking about looking forward to the Dr.'s next 50 years. Perhaps the Dr. will find a different way of regeneration like the master did.
Any idea on who the big bad is for the Christmas special? The name they released is not known to me but the pic that came with it reminded me very strongly of the Rahni back in Sylvester Macoy's era.
From what we've seen in the pics and trailers, we're looking at Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels and the Silents all making an appearance, and the Army of the Silence are showing up again.
The blurb also mentions someone coming back from the Doctor's past, so possible the Rani. Other theories include the return of Romana.
One thing I've seen suggested the Rani on the basis that, as a Time Lady and a scientist, if anyone had a motive and ability to counter the regeneration limit, it would be her. Which ties in nicely to the '11 is 13' thing we have going on at the moment.
Paradigm wrote: One thing I've seen suggested the Rani on the basis that, as a Time Lady and a scientist, if anyone had a motive and ability to counter the regeneration limit, it would be her. Which ties in nicely to the '11 is 13' thing we have going on at the moment.
I agree, this does make the most sense. Conversely, Romana may have stumbled across information regarding Gallifrey while returning from espace.
Gonna go with the Rani as Romana according to the stories written while the series was of the air went back to Gallafray and was elected president at one point. From what I understand the books are cannon but who knows.
Stormdrake wrote: Gonna go with the Rani as Romana according to the stories written while the series was of the air went back to Gallafray and was elected president at one point. From what I understand the books are cannon but who knows.
Well, we could have Gallifrey return, the Doctor deposes Rassilon, Romana is put in power for helping the Doctor and being popular, maybe.
I've only seen one episode with Romana (The City of Death, I think) and I gotta say, I'd LOVE to see her join up in the search for Gallifrey. She's a great character. It would be cool to see the Doctor traveling with an equal.
Stormdrake wrote: I rewatched the "End of Time" episode and I can't find anywhere that they refer to the Time Lord president as Rassilon. Am I mistaken?
Spoiler:
This dude?
"As the Master's face falls, the Doctor orders him to get out of the way. Suddenly understanding, the Master jumps away from the White-Point Star just as the Doctor shoots it, and its destruction severs the link and reinforces the Time Lock, pulling the Time Lords back into the Time War and to their inevitable doom. The Doctor sends them "back into Hell", and identifies the Lord President as Rassilon. "
Another issue was the war scene in the painting. Why were Timelord combatants just Grunts? In the First series of 'Nu-Who' and i think a couple of Tenant episodes the war was described in Vague terms and the impression was of a pretty Unfathomable conflict, the name itself 'Timewar' would also suggest this. I am, again, aware of the slight unfairness of this criticism but i feel something more unique could have been shown than a 1940's air raid with flying saucers...
...
.
As I understand it, most members of the “Time Lord” species are basically ordinary, apart from two hearts and such like. Only a small number of special Time Lords have the affinity with time energy to operate a Tardis. These would operate like commandos, doing time based special missions. The Time Lords obviously lost the war, so when the Daleks were besieging Gallifrey, the bulk of the troops on the ground were ordinary soldiers.
So I would say the battle scene you are refering to is at the very end of the war. THe Time Lords are under seige on their own world and the council is thinking of destroying all of reality to save themselves. All of this pretty much points to the end game where as the comments you are talking about are referencing the struggle when the Time Lords were at their strongest. At least thats what I am thinking. All the crazy stuff 10 and 11 talked about occured prior to the Daleks gaining the upper hand.
They in fact call out the 'crazy stuff' in the episode when they talk about the Time Vaults where the moment is stored. They already did all that and it didn't stop the Daleks.
In Doctor Who Magazine, Steven Moffat opened up a little on Orly Brady's character, Tasha Lem:
The Doctor meets an old friend. Someone from his distant past. Someone who knows him very well, but whom we have never met. She's the Mother Superious of the Papal Mainframe.
[Blogtor Who]
Brady herself elaborated a little bit, talking about Tasha Lem's Bladerunner-inspired makeup:
That was a reference actually. That was the director's idea, Jamie [Payne]. We did make-up tests at the beginning and he looked at them and said he wanted a touch of alien, and I think he referenced Ridley Scott. It was that idea of human, but with a twist. And there is a twist, it's as Steven Moffat said, she's a descendant of humans, there's a grandmother or a great-grandmother who was from elsewhere, a touch of something else in her. Jamie wanted that slightly not-quite-human, three-quarters human thing, hence that Blade Runner reference, so he asked for that. They know their world so well, Howard Burden and the costume designers, they all know what they want and have a very good vision of it.
She also said the script made her laugh out loud, not at her character, but at a Doctor interaction she's worried about spoiling:
Not my character. It was Matt's interaction with a certain other character who I'm trying not to name [laughing]. There were other conversation strands between the Doctor and somebody else that made me laugh out loud. There were a couple of moments between Tasha and the Doctor that made me laugh out loud, but she's not a particularly funny character and in truth – and this is completely understandable – some things had to be shaved back because there's only so much time on Christmas Day. There's only an hour, and essential story has to be told, so some of the funnier moments, when we got to actually shooting, had been trimmed away, which I was sad about, because selfishly, you always want as much character as possible. Equally I could see quite properly that this episode was firmly about wrapping up the Doctor's story, so everything else that isn't that is up for grabs in terms of cuts.
In fact, as it's been mentioned previously, how about we stop banging on about it?
Oh, don't get your panties in a twist. There's a difference between talking about an upcoming episode and using every opportunity to tell us how much you hate Matt Smith.
) But whatcha gonna do?
Somebody who dislikes Rose?! I think this is the first time I have encountered anyone with such an opinion. Why did she ruin it for you?
