Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A chap posted an interesting point about what sort of game Epic should be.

What Epic 40,000 and Epic Armageddon got Right was the blast markers and unit suppression rules.

Those helped turn a ‘mere’ large scale engagement game into one that replicated the command experience.

Not saying it did so perfectly, but it played very differently to 40k. Yes, you could just shoehorn in the biggest of big guns. But reliable success came from knowing when and how to best suppress enemy formations.

Get something like that back for a hypothetical Epic scale game, and it’ll offer a different gaming experience to 40k.

 KTG17 wrote:
The main concern and the purpose of all my posts was the worry that this AT would be designed to be just this AT, and not a system that could be expanded on to introduce marines and vehicles, like SM1 did, let alone ever bringing in other races.

If the game is designed to be too heavily focused on what titans are doing, it wont mix well with other kinds of units. Some people want that, fine. However, if the game isn't thinking longer term, then that expansion probably wont happen. Some of you are saying 'This is AT and all I want is AT' and that's fine, you're getting that. But for many of us we were hoping this would be a gateway to an expanded system. The concerns I was voicing had to do with the realization that probably won't happen.

 Pacific wrote:

And if you want to expand to Epic there are the existing games out there, with a great community and support network (Which I just won't stop banging on about ). You don't need to wait for GW to release what would most likely be a slightly different version of an existing game..

 KTG17 wrote:
The main concern and the purpose of all my posts was the worry that this AT would be designed to be just this AT, and not a system that could be expanded on to introduce marines and vehicles, like SM1 did, let alone ever bringing in other races.

If the game is designed to be too heavily focused on what titans are doing, it wont mix well with other kinds of units. Some people want that, fine. However, if the game isn't thinking longer term, then that expansion probably wont happen. Some of you are saying 'This is AT and all I want is AT' and that's fine, you're getting that. But for many of us we were hoping this would be a gateway to an expanded system. The concerns I was voicing had to do with the realization that probably won't happen.

 Albertorius wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Yeah but the person wasn't saying that they couldn't be done right, they were saying that the ones that DID exist looked awful.

He was saying that he would imagine that if Gw moved on with epic the scale would be 8mm or bigger because "the 6mm infantry models looked awful and were impossible to paint". I certainly read it as cause effect. But ok.

You can make mkiv marines in 6mm. Models that distinctly look like mk4 armour. It's been done.

That was my point, yes. I even linked some.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In 8mm (or even in 10 or 15), you can still have hundreds of infantry models, and they will look a hundred times better than the indistinct pinhead blobs that are 6mm models. 6mm is just too small a scale for good looking infantry.

RazorEdge wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In 8mm (or even in 10 or 15), you can still have hundreds of infantry models, and they will look a hundred times better than the indistinct pinhead blobs that are 6mm models. 6mm is just too small a scale for good looking infantry.

+40.000 !!!!

So true...

 KTG17 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

And if you want to expand to Epic there are the existing games out there, with a great community and support network (Which I just won't stop banging on about ). You don't need to wait for GW to release what would most likely be a slightly different version of an existing game..

I know all about those, but I am not looking for just talking about games online with a international group. Its a lot easier to find players for a in-production game that is widely available as opposed to one that is oop for some time.

tneva82 wrote:
Customer spends 100$ on 40k.

Epic comes. Customer spends 50$ to 40k, 50$ to epic.

Where's the profit for GW? He would have got 100$ anyway. Now GW just needs to pay resources for TWO games.

Maximize sales, minimize expenses. That's how companies make money. If all you do is increasing expenses and just shifting same money into multiple things your sales stay same while expenses go up.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Customer spends 100$ on 40k.

Epic comes. Customer spends 50$ to 40k, 50$ to epic.

Where's the profit for GW? He would have got 100$ anyway. Now GW just needs to pay resources for TWO games.

Maximize sales, minimize expenses. That's how companies make money. If all you do is increasing expenses and just shifting same money into multiple things your sales stay same while expenses go up.

You can't seriously believe that malarkey, can you?

I mean, you're aware that companies diversify their product lines all the time, and that offering a broad (or broader) range of products to appeal to (or expand into) different markets/demographics is one of the driving forces behind business?

You're looking at this as a zero sum game and that's, forgive the vulgarity, really fething stupid.

 skeleton wrote:
so the game should come in august, some of you whit conections know or meaning to know what the big box is gonna cost??
could be a very pricy produckt.

 Krinsath wrote:
Imperial Knights Renegade was $195USD if memory serves. While not a “starter,” so it could be a red herring, that’s the realm I imagine things will end up in. Will be happy to be wrong about that, but that’s how i’m planning for August.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

Oggthrok wrote:
The original Titan Legions sort of nibbled its way into Epic.

That was Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine, not Titan Legions.

 War Drone wrote:
All these pricing speculations are interesting, but ... those of us still here on P54 are gonna be buying it anyway, regardless of "cost" ... aren't we?

puree wrote:
On the Sunday specialist game seminar they said it would be the most expensive starter, following some questions (give us a clue so we can start saving!) they said it would be less than £200. How much I don't know, 1p or £50. But from what they said £200 is the max it will be.

It does look really nice, going to be hard to not buy it.

 Mysterio wrote:

Given how GW does conversions, what does £200 turn into elsewhere?

In the 'real world', that would be about $270US, but would that mean GW would put it at $300?

Would they...dare?

And would that become too large a barrier for many?

 Mysterio wrote:
Oh I don't know - I think quite a few 40K Starter sets had terrain in them.

And you're definitely going to need terrain in AT in order to make it more interesting - and fun!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One thing to keep in mind is GW may be looking to crowd out competitors. This is coming just as Battletech is trying to relaunch.

Ben2 wrote:
Done well it'll be a visually incredible game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
Oh I don't know - I think quite a few 40K Starter sets had terrain in them.

And you're definitely going to need terrain in AT in order to make it more interesting - and fun!

You’re gonna need terrain to make the game work!

Consider. Warhound Titans traditionally rely on their speed and small (relatively speaking) profile. They can go where larger Titans can’t, and hide where other larger Titans can’t.

Strip them of that, and they just become a ready source of cheap victory points (assuming VPs are in AT of course!). And thus, without terrain, they become a liability, and you might as well just field the biggest and toughest Titan you can. At that point, the game devolves into a mindless slugfest devoid of any and all tactical challenge.

Get the terrain right though? Warhounds suddenly become quite desireable. They may lack the wallop to drop a Warlord, or even a Reaver, but they can stalk the battlefield to find favourable positions, then get shield stripping, giving your Big Boys the chance to do the real damage.

You know, thinking about it, AT is a very difficult game to get right from a design point of view. Each unit needs its own niche, and each niche must have a viable role within the game (if not specific army selections). If Warhounds are too cheap, or too squishy, they’ll be no-brainer choices, or a straight up waste of points. If the Reaver proves too middling, it may lose out to the classes either side. Knights? Much the same as Warhounds. If they can’t even tickle a Warhound beyond Shield stripping, why take them over more Warhounds or Reavers?

The game needs to be offering us real tactical choices, and list building sacrifice. A Maniple of say, three Warlords, should be a challenge for most, but struggle against say, massed Warhounds - because they’ll die the death of a thousand cuts, without ever really being able to properly engage. If there’s a wide variety of possible, effective Maniple options, the game ought to prove good fun

What I will do is firstly go through the rough release schedule of the products before doing a break-down of the game in detail.

Products

Month 1 – Basic rules box containing hardback rulebook; 2x Warlord, Reaver, Warhound and Questoris pattern knight terminals; loads of tokens and basic weapon cards.

- Grand Master edition box: contains everything above plus 2x Warlords, 6x Questoris Knights and 4 (I think) sprues of buildings.

- Warlord Titan

- Warlord Titan terminals

- Questoris Knights in boxes of 3



Month 2 – Reaver titan (boxes of 1)

- Reaver titan terminals



Month 3 – Warhound titan

- Warhound terminals

There are other products due for release such as:

- Maniple sets of terminals for fixed types of titan combinations

- building sets coming in two sizes of boxes for expanding terrain

- resin realm of battle boards

- Cerastus pattern Knights

- Titan-Death (Beta-Garmon) campaign book

- New titan varients

- Weapon cards for Warlords, Reavers and (I presume) Warhounds

- Plastic weapon upgrades for all titan classes for common weapons

- Resin weapon upgrades for rarer weapons (the most requested are the Ursus Claws – ADB has a lot to answer for).

- Decal sheets for the titan legions

The Warhounds have been produced and painted by the FW team but weren`t shown for release as they are outside of the three month preview period as they are due for October. The first month of releases is due for release in August.

The titan sprues have been designed in a certain way and are spread over three sprues.

 1. Chassis

 2. Armour plates

3. Weapons

What this means is that in the future if different variants of existing titans are released, all the FW team have to do is swop out the appropriate sprue. For example, Siege of Terra Chaos titans will have the spikes, tentacles etc that we associate with Chaos so the standard armour plate sprue can be replaced with a Chaos version. This saves on tooling and product design. Also, currently, only the Warlord has magnet points (we don`t know about the Warhound). The Reaver has ball-joints on its arms so could be magnetised with a bit of work. The poseability of the kits is great and if you look online, you will find many, many photos of the sprues that show you how many parts there are. The kits also include options for Loyalist or Traitor armour plates with plain, Eye of Horus or Titan Legio symbols on them. No two titans need look the same.

The Specialist Games team have also suggested that if the game is successful then we will see an expansion into 40k with Eldar Phantoms and Ork Gargants being included in future expansions but for the moment – the focus is on Heresy. What was clarified many times is that this is a game of titans. The emphaisis is on God-Engines fighting each other as per the original game. There are no plans at all to expand into infantry, vehicles etc as the old Epic as the feeling is that it devalues the role and use of the titans. They have not ruled out a later version of epic as a separate game but there are no plans for the moments.

The plastic products will be supported by GW in the same way as Bloodbowl and Necromunda but will have a limited placement in physical stores just due to the sheer size of the products and the amount of space they will take up in the stores.

The game

The Specialist Team put on a demo-pod explaining the mechanics of the game in detail. This was hugely popular and the event organisers removed all the chairs from another area to ensure there were enough seats – there still wasn`t. This was a flaw I think. Rather than a demo-pod they should of organised this as a seminar supported by demo games in the Studio area. This would of ensured that people could see the game being played and enough people could hear it. The level of interest in this game is huge and probably only getting larger after this weekend.

I`ll begin with some lore and background before moving onto the separate components of the game.

Firstly, they emphasised that unlike the Astartes Legions which are limited to 18 in the Heresy, the Titan Legios are the opposite. There are hundreds of them – many of which do not survive past the Heresy. This means that there is a large emphasis on creating your own Titan Legio and developing your own lore.

The first campaign book is focusing on Beta-Garmon (for details of this campaign see my Weekender Summary). This will include more rules for different Titan Legions and Maniple-types. The basic game only comes with Gryphonicus and Warp-Runners. The details on the campaign mechanics and development haven`t yet been released from the Studio team. However, they will detail specifics on each Legio such as campaign banners, colour schemes etc. 

The game focused on between 3-5 titans and attending Knight banners and will give 1500-2000 pts and is played on a 4`x4` board but can be expanded depending on number of players etc.

Each titan has a command terminal. This tells you the in-game details for your titan allows you to track the damage etc, that your titan has suffered. For example, it tells you how fast your titan can move, how many turns it takes, how many servitor clades it carries, what do you need for shooting or close combat. It also tells you your armour on different locations of the titan.

In game, you can manipulate your reactor to increase movement or shields but this runs the risk of over-loading the reactor (this is bad) or allowing the machine-spirit to dominate the princeps forcing the titan to act in a certain manner. The general principle is you take damage to the void shields, then armour and then start going critical and explode. Engine kill confirmed!

During the game, you can repair systems. Each titan has a number of servitor clades that each one allows you to roll a single d6. For each system there is a target number to repair a damage or a void shield. If all the shields are dropped, they can only be brought back on a 6+ thus try not to allow your shields to drop.

Knights also have a terminal but this represents a unit (banner) of between 3-5 knights. Each knight can be armed individually and each gives slightly different advantages and disadvantages. Knights cannot go toe-to-toe with a titan but can bring down void shields or finish off a heavily damaged titan. These are you skirmishers and light troops and can access areas of the board that bigger titans can`t. Ignore them at your peril.

The game also includes stratagems and commands. Stratagems give you advantages before the game begins such as outflanking, fortifications etc. If your maniple has lower points than your opponent, then you gain extra stratagems to balance your forces.

Commands are issued at the start of the turn and each titan class has a target number to achieve a command. If the roll is failed, no further commands are issued for the rest of your turn so does include some risks. There are 3 basic commands that don`t need a roll and 6 advanced orders. The box will include command dice so that you can mark the order given on the terminal. Each order gives bonuses and negatives. For example, you could focus on shooting but you can`t move.

Movement and shooting is alternative actions so both players are involved at all points of the game. For me, this makes much more sense as too many GW games have one person (or team) sitting around and letting things happen to them. Alternative activations allow more tactics to take place.

Movement is a key part of the game as weapon arcs are limited and titans are not manoeuvrable. A warlord, for example, can only make a turn for each 4” of movement or two if it overloads its reactor for movement. Smaller titans become faster and more manoeuvrable. Knights are free to move as they wish. Moving backwards is possible but at half-speed. Facing directly dictates the fire arcs of your weapons.

Weapon arcs are two types depending on the weapon and its location on the titan. Carapace tend to be fixed forward which is a straight corridor from the titans base; arm weapons have the typical 90° forward arc. Carapace weapons also include a minimum distance to shoot at as well. The weapon arcs are shown using a template that comes on the titan sprues to limit arguments. What all of this means is that Warlords are very powerful but if smaller titans can close the distance or get round the flanks, then the Warlord can be at a disadvantage as not all the weapons can be brought to focus on the target.

After selecting your target you make your attack rolls. Typically, the more dice you roll, the lower the strength of the weapon. Once any attack rolls are made, then you roll for damage. This is similar to 7th ed. vehicle penetration. You roll a d6, add the weapon strength and compare to the location armour to see the effect. Some hits won`t do anything at, high strength attacks could cause critical damage which is recorded on the template. Weapons also have special rules attached like shield-drain which knocks down void-shields faster, or greater critical damage. Void Shields allow you to make saves for each hit you take, the more shields you have left, the better your void saves. As your shields drop, their save gets worse. There are still templates for weapons like barrage launcher or flamer weapons.

What this means in practice is that the titans (or maniples) need a variety of weapons. You could load out your titan with engine-killers like volcano cannons but you won`t knock down shields quickly. Weapons which can shred shields may not have the strength to penetrate armour. Void Shields also have a minimum range so if you get close enough, the target won`t get its saves for shields. Shooting is alternative activation so selecting order of units is key for success. 

Close-combat is a part of the game but the emphasis is on the shooting aspect. The risk of close combat is that it’s very dangerous. If you kill an enemy titan in melee and it goes nuclear then you can kill yourself in the blast. 

Creating a maniple is key. The game includes several `model` maniples for you to base your forces on which reflects the narrative of the legio. Each type of maniple gives bonuses for using that type but restricts your choice of titan.

For example, a battleline maniple consists of:

1 Warlord

2 Reaver

2 Warhounds

The minimum maniple size for a battleline maniple is:

1 Warlord

1 Reaver

1 Warhound

Another maniple type (my personal favourite and my planned first build) is a hunting pack consisting off:

1 Reaver

4 Warhounds

Different titan legios may have unique maniples to reflect their fighting styles or units available. These will be detailed in specific campaign books.

The weapon pack cards give extras of different types of weapon beyond the basic game and will include all the plastic planned upgrade sets. These give you enough to field most of your maniple unless you are using multiples of the same class of titans. The weapon cards give you the rules and points for that weapon to place on your titan terminal.

To calculate the cost of the titan you add the base chassis cost to the individual cost of the weapons.

Iracundus wrote:


[/quoteOf course then the games have to have some reason for Warlords to not simply park themselves at the table edge with their rears facing the edge.

 Overread wrote:
Most games don't have reach-across-the-table weapons - I think Dropzone Commander is one of the few that does, but that game also introduces more countermeasures and often has a very dense terrain table coupled to objectives to break things up and force you closer.

Titans is likely going to have fewer long ranged weapons with a focus on getting closer for the real damage; though I'd wager we will see some long-range weapon battery options. The key then will be good positions and such.

Also don't forget a lot of titan weapons are close combat - those chainsaws, claws, hammers, lances etc.... that all work best when you're striding up to smash the opposing mech in the face (or in the back!).

Iracundus wrote:
Those Warlords look like they are packing Volcano cannons in each arm, which are both long range and hard hitting.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Anyone heard if the different Legions will get rules?

I hope not personally, I don't want 40k style 'paint them red for these rules, green for those rules'.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Anyone heard if the different Legions will get rules?

I hope not personally, I don't want 40k style 'paint them red for these rules, green for those rules'.

zerosignal wrote:
I'm half expecting the next thing to be My Little Warhound Titan.

RazorEdge wrote:
No Epic Expansion for me - no Money for GW

 Mysterio wrote:
....awesome?

I mean, I'll be buying a LOT of Adeptus Titanicus stuff AND hoping that someday there's also a new EPIC too.

Also, I had a salad with some grilled chicken for lunch.

 gorgon wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
No Epic Expansion for me - no Money for GW

Well, no clutter in my Titan game = more money from me.

 mjl7atlas wrote:
So did they retcon the Ordo Sinister to be just the 25 Warlords instead of the 12 Imperator's or along with the Warlords?

 gorgon wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
No Epic Expansion for me - no Money for GW

Well, no clutter in my Titan game = more money from me.

 mjl7atlas wrote:
So did they retcon the Ordo Sinister to be just the 25 Warlords instead of the 12 Imperator's or along with the Warlords?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 mjl7atlas wrote:
So did they retcon the Ordo Sinister to be just the 25 Warlords instead of the 12 Imperator's or along with the Warlords?

Horus Heresy book 7: Inferno mentions only 25 Warlord titans. Where is the mention of Imperators from?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
We already know; there's a picture of one in HH: Inferno. It looks exactly like a normal Warlord from the outside.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In 8mm (or even in 10 or 15), you can still have hundreds of infantry models, and they will look a hundred times better than the indistinct pinhead blobs that are 6mm models. 6mm is just too small a scale for good looking infantry.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In 8mm (or even in 10 or 15), you can still have hundreds of infantry models, and they will look a hundred times better than the indistinct pinhead blobs that are 6mm models. 6mm is just too small a scale for good looking infantry.

While that may be your opinion, I would strongly dispute any claim that this was objectively true.

tneva82 wrote:
I'm betting it won't STAY looking like identical though.

 schoon wrote:
I'm excited that we may finally get to see what a Psy-Titan looks like!

Only been waiting a few decades...

 Dysartes wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In 8mm (or even in 10 or 15), you can still have hundreds of infantry models, and they will look a hundred times better than the indistinct pinhead blobs that are 6mm models. 6mm is just too small a scale for good looking infantry.

While that may be your opinion, I would strongly dispute any claim that this was objectively true.

tneva82 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In 8mm (or even in 10 or 15), you can still have hundreds of infantry models, and they will look a hundred times better than the indistinct pinhead blobs that are 6mm models. 6mm is just too small a scale for good looking infantry.

While that may be your opinion, I would strongly dispute any claim that this was objectively true.

How can it be pinhead blobs when you can clearly make out are they MKIV or MKVII power armour is beyond me...

Macrossmartin wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
No Epic Expansion for me - no Money for GW

Well, no clutter in my Titan game = more money from me.

Amen, Brother Gorgon, Amen!

Friend of mine on FB was commenting on the Battle of Jutland just now... so that got me thinking...

Re-fight Jutland. With Titans.

... help.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
No, but ...

Imagie them fighting on a world with "undergrowth" 20' high. Warlords and Reavers striding waist-high through the plains, while Warhounds peek over the top of the plantlife, and mere ripples show where Knight lances move unseen, until an unfortunate Reaver tumbles into the undergrowth.

 zedmeister wrote:
Indeed, it had a very limited release through Mailorder:

Spoiler:

 schoon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Indeed, it had a very limited release through Mailorder:

Spoiler:

Wow! That is a piece of history I'd forgotten about.

Bravo, Sir. Bravo.

MaxT wrote:

 schoon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Indeed, it had a very limited release through Mailorder:

Spoiler:

Wow! That is a piece of history I'd forgotten about.

Bravo, Sir. Bravo.

I think my brain had protected itself by forgetting such a monstrosity

 howie wrote:
If it's just the pinhead comment, I think this is usually on a more personal level. I have terrible eyesight for instance and 6mm does really look like a mesh of colours to me, whether or not they're great sculpts. Though looking on the picture someone put up of the different marks or armour I can see they have detail enough to paint.

 Dysartes wrote:

 howie wrote:
If it's just the pinhead comment, I think this is usually on a more personal level. I have terrible eyesight for instance and 6mm does really look like a mesh of colours to me, whether or not they're great sculpts. Though looking on the picture someone put up of the different marks or armour I can see they have detail enough to paint.

Yeah, the pinhead comment, and the implication you can't get a good infantry sculpt at 6mm.

Knowing people who sculpt and produce miniatures at that scale, it's an insult to some very talented artists to make such a claim.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No, of course it was not an objective statement. No statement of like or dislike is ever objective. I just don't like miniatures that small. Not enough room for detail, which means that equipment like guns, belts, grenades etc. just become blobs. I like seeing detail like that on my infantry. Details like that are what in my opinion makes them actual miniatures as opposed to mere tokens. I have yet to see an infantry sculpt at 6mm that I thought was good. I'd be happy if you could show me one though.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Not enough room for detail, which means that equipment like guns, belts, grenades etc. just become blobs.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 howie wrote:
If it's just the pinhead comment, I think this is usually on a more personal level. I have terrible eyesight for instance and 6mm does really look like a mesh of colours to me, whether or not they're great sculpts. Though looking on the picture someone put up of the different marks or armour I can see they have detail enough to paint.

Yeah, the pinhead comment, and the implication you can't get a good infantry sculpt at 6mm.

Knowing people who sculpt and produce miniatures at that scale, it's an insult to some very talented artists to make such a claim.

No, of course it was not an objective statement. No statement of like or dislike is ever objective. I just don't like miniatures that small. Not enough room for detail, which means that equipment like guns, belts, grenades etc. just become blobs. I like seeing detail like that on my infantry. Details like that are what in my opinion makes them actual miniatures as opposed to mere tokens. I have yet to see an infantry sculpt at 6mm that I thought was good. I'd be happy if you could show me one though.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I know price has been thrown around regarding the Grandmaster edition, but I thought I'd note Andy Hoare said on the Warhammer TV stream earlier tonight that the figure being tossed around at Warhammer Fest by one of his colleagues was accurate but vague in the sense it was being touted at Between £200 and £500.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I know price has been thrown around regarding the Grandmaster edition, but I thought I'd note Andy Hoare said on the Warhammer TV stream earlier tonight that the figure being tossed around at Warhammer Fest by one of his colleagues was accurate but vague in the sense it was being touted at Between £200 and £500.

He added the money men are still crunching the final number, but he did say it will be very good value and he'd expect that one of the Warlord's would be effectively free.

 Overread wrote:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperator-class_Titan

They are big and tough but they are far from immobile; mobility is their primary focus in bringing the might of the Emperor to His foes.

I'd say they are far from a unicorn considering that we've had them before in the previous titan based games (heck Titan Legions they were one half of the box art)

Chopstick wrote:
They want knight in the game, with Imperator in place of Warlord, knight would be too small.

Chopstick wrote:
The Dreadnought size in that pic is wrong.

 Albertorius wrote:

Well, I don't know about you, but these look superb to me:

Chopstick wrote:
They want knight in the game, with Imperator in place of Warlord, knight would be too small.

 Albertorius wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
They want knight in the game, with Imperator in place of Warlord, knight would be too small.

That's the reason there's never been knights in Epic scale.

Oh, wait...

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Well, I don't know about you, but these look superb to me:

Who makes these?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
They want knight in the game, with Imperator in place of Warlord, knight would be too small.

That's the reason there's never been knights in Epic scale.

Oh, wait...

They were also nearly the same size as the old warhounds, or taller in the case of the lancers and barons.

Floofybirb wrote:
I never thought I'd register here, but this post is incorrect enough to make me stop lurking. The figure given at the stream was the same one as at the Fest: between 5 and 200 pounds. As the exact figure has indeed not been set yet, any other figure you hear can safely be discarded. At some point I will make a second post detailing what went on at the Fest regarding AT as depressingly few people have done that.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Not really; it’s just that all the titans and stuff around them are tiny. The old Epic knights are all on 25mm bases.

Floofybirb wrote:
Ok here is my attempt at answering questions from the last few pages of thread:
1. Urban combat was chosen because it is the worst and most difficult place for a titan maniple to fight. Other terrain styles are supported but I would say cities are the most tactically interesting.
2. Different legio have special rules. Players are encouraged to make up custom legio to go with these rules given.
3. Alpha strikes are impossible due to alternating activations in phases. Also Warlords are too tough to die turn one even if you permit the enemy to do everything right. Resource management is key to victory.
4. Space Marine is an example of an interesting expansion they have prepared the game for not collapsing over. Scale was picked to accomodate all model types conceivable. Obviously no work is being directed at this angle.
5. The bunker things you see in some pictures have gameplay effects--like if you are outgunned in narrative play you may get a fortified position. There is also a gauntlet type mission where you advance down a very narrow table manned by the enemy.
6. Imperators would be the size of 40k reiver titans and reduce the game to who activates theirs first. Not coming.

That is everything off the top of my head.

Chopstick wrote:
The Dreadnought size in that pic is wrong.

 Overread wrote:
Scale is like time - its a wibbly wobbly concept that gets the job done in obeying the "RULE OF COOL" in games/fantasy/scifi.

I'd maintain that if Titanicus sells well and proves to be a viable strong line of models then we will one day see an Imperator. Sure they are super rare; heck most of what we use in the game is super rare, We've got a legion of one-off characters who only ever appear at the rarest of battles - we've got units that are unique; we've got chaos gods who stride the battle field. So 3 Imperators is a luxury considering what else there is that is a one off.

 Pacific wrote:

P
Many thanks for coming out of lurking to make this post Floofybirb

Some really interesting stuff there.

Are you able to clarify what the point 4 means, about Space Marine?

Splog wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

P
Many thanks for coming out of lurking to make this post Floofybirb

Some really interesting stuff there.

Are you able to clarify what the point 4 means, about Space Marine?

I’m pretty sure this means that although there are no plans or any design work done to introduce infantry, the scale was selected/tested so that infantry could be added.

 zedmeister wrote:

AT Facebook Group:

Chopstick wrote:
only 2 Questoris knight terminal? and 6 Titan? But you get 6 knight and 2 titan in the box game.

Chopstick wrote:
only 2 Questoris knight terminal? and 6 Titan? But you get 6 knight and 2 titan in the box game.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, when infantry get added, it’ll be “Adeptus Titanicus – infantry expansion” not “Epic infantry wars! Now with Titans.”

I also want to say FW should make an Imperator in AT scale, just so they can finally write that “Resin Imperator Titan Now On Sale!” headline they’ve wanted to do since the first Warhound was released…

 aka_mythos wrote:
With the way they've talked about long term plans it really doesn't seem like infantry, tanks, etc will make an appearance for a while. At that point, it seems more likely they'd do a new edition or an all together separate rule set.

 Thargrim wrote:

Spoiler:

Stumbled across this on FB today, hadn't seen this image before. These are the full contents of the rules box. The battlefield assets sprue will be particularly interesting. I believe the next open day is around july 15 so no too long before we see more stuff hopefully including the warhounds sprue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
With the way they've talked about long term plans it really doesn't seem like infantry, tanks, etc will make an appearance for a while. At that point, it seems more likely they'd do a new edition or an all together separate rule set.

Well it it sells like hotcakes and the demand is there, plans will change.

Remember, most of this stuff was going to resin originally.

 gorgon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
With the way they've talked about long term plans it really doesn't seem like infantry, tanks, etc will make an appearance for a while. At that point, it seems more likely they'd do a new edition or an all together separate rule set.

Well it it sells like hotcakes and the demand is there, plans will change.

Remember, most of this stuff was going to resin originally.

The AT system pretty clearly isn't designed to handle infantry and such easily. It's a system focused on the details of titan combat.

If you're talking about an Epic relaunch in this scale, then sure, that could follow eventually.

 zedmeister wrote:
Remember that James Hewitt, who originally wrote the game, did say that it is designed to expand into tanks an infantry as a possible future option.

The Specialist Games team have also suggested that if the game is successful then we will see an expansion into 40k with Eldar Phantoms and Ork Gargants being included in future expansions but for the moment – the focus is on Heresy. What was clarified many times is that this is a game of titans. The emphasis is on God-Engines fighting each other as per the original game. There are no plans at all to expand into infantry, vehicles etc as the old Epic as the feeling is that it devalues the role and use of the titans. They have not ruled out a later version of epic as a separate game but there are no plans for the moments.

 gorgon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Remember that James Hewitt, who originally wrote the game, did say that it is designed to expand into tanks an infantry as a possible future option.

Source?

Because the designers at Warhammer Fest said this, per Penddraig:

The Specialist Games team have also suggested that if the game is successful then we will see an expansion into 40k with Eldar Phantoms and Ork Gargants being included in future expansions but for the moment – the focus is on Heresy. What was clarified many times is that this is a game of titans. The emphasis is on God-Engines fighting each other as per the original game. There are no plans at all to expand into infantry, vehicles etc as the old Epic as the feeling is that it devalues the role and use of the titans. They have not ruled out a later version of epic as a separate game but there are no plans for the moments.

However, he is writing the rules engine so that they are able to add in vehicles or infantry without requiring a whole new set of rules to be written. He described the jarring effect of Titans and Infantry needing two sets of rules in previous games and it's something that he definitely wants to avoid.

Cyrixiinus wrote:
Not really, because the Legions didn't have personal Titans but nominally allied Legios, each of which have their own theme. Legio Audax is only a 'World Eaters themed Legio' because of its atypically close allegiance to that single Legion.

Cyrixiinus wrote:
In terms of auxiliary forces in general, then yes Audax is just a prominent example. In terms of Titan Legions it is more like an anomaly. Even if a Legions theme has rubbed of onto a Titan Legio, that is not a Legion army. The other example would be Xestobiax; a Legio Xestobiax army is still not a Thousand Sons army. The point I am trying to make is that Titan Legios are not part of the Astartes Legions, so adding a Titan Legio that is closely aligned to a Legion is still not expanding Titanicus to the Legions.

In other words, I may be arguing over the semantics of your first post rather than the intent.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I'm perfectly happy if AT stays a titan only game, but I'd also love some adorable little superheavies to paint.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly as much as I love Epic as a game format I'd actually like to see GW bring back Warmaster instead of Epic. Warmaster (even if its Sigmar era) is the ideal home of rank and file tabletop; plus with endless spells being a thing now that would let you have even more powerful spell effects. Plus that scale lets big monsters like dragons, feel more like dragons when they cn set fire to a whole company of troops instead of 5 or 6 or so.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly as much as I love Epic as a game format I'd actually like to see GW bring back Warmaster instead of Epic. Warmaster (even if its Sigmar era) is the ideal home of rank and file tabletop; plus with endless spells being a thing now that would let you have even more powerful spell effects. Plus that scale lets big monsters like dragons, feel more like dragons when they cn set fire to a whole company of troops instead of 5 or 6 or so.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly as much as I love Epic as a game format I'd actually like to see GW bring back Warmaster instead of Epic. Warmaster (even if its Sigmar era) is the ideal home of rank and file tabletop; plus with endless spells being a thing now that would let you have even more powerful spell effects. Plus that scale lets big monsters like dragons, feel more like dragons when they cn set fire to a whole company of troops instead of 5 or 6 or so.

Bleughch, if they were going to AoS it I'd rather they didn't bother. It's hard enough to get games of stuff like Warmaster and Mordheim as it is, if they throw AoS versions into the mix then it'll be impossible - some kids(and kid-adults) already chuck a hissy if they're not allowed to use their Land Marines in Mordheim campaigns, if the "official" and "supported" version of the games allowed that then they'd be even more obnoxious.

 Overread wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly as much as I love Epic as a game format I'd actually like to see GW bring back Warmaster instead of Epic. Warmaster (even if its Sigmar era) is the ideal home of rank and file tabletop; plus with endless spells being a thing now that would let you have even more powerful spell effects. Plus that scale lets big monsters like dragons, feel more like dragons when they cn set fire to a whole company of troops instead of 5 or 6 or so.

Bleughch, if they were going to AoS it I'd rather they didn't bother. It's hard enough to get games of stuff like Warmaster and Mordheim as it is, if they throw AoS versions into the mix then it'll be impossible - some kids(and kid-adults) already chuck a hissy if they're not allowed to use their Land Marines in Mordheim campaigns, if the "official" and "supported" version of the games allowed that then they'd be even more obnoxious.

To be fair Warmaster is a dead game and very unlikely that GW would bring it back, esp since they are clearly committed to Sigmar being the leading role for fantasy. I can't see Warmaster returning without it being the Sigmar version. The only way it could happen is massive demand as a result of the TW games; even then the "end of the world" that the TW campaigns are messing with honestly leads me to think that after the 3 Warhammer games we'll see Sigmar Total War.

 Overread wrote:
Sigmar on the tabletop isn't rank and file but the actual battles in the setting would be closer to that. Just the same way the rank and file of actual fantasy warhammer was never close to the actual rank and file of the setting.

As for the over-map that could easily be done with a bit of creative work. CA could even invent some kind of super war on a single map area with the other factions gating-in at their own start locations to try and secure the region entirely. etc....

 aracersss wrote:
more pics from titanicus
http://novaopenfoundation.org/archives/product/2018-model-40k-mortarion

 Overread wrote:
Methinks its the wrong list; however I suspect we don't see any GW news for a while - until the end of July or beginning of August. The only other Titanicus news we might see is more info from the computer game of the same name.

changemod wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Methinks its the wrong list; however I suspect we don't see any GW news for a while - until the end of July or beginning of August. The only other Titanicus news we might see is more info from the computer game of the same name.

There’s a forge world open day in two weeks, seems as good a time as any to unveil the Warhound.

changemod wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Methinks its the wrong list; however I suspect we don't see any GW news for a while - until the end of July or beginning of August. The only other Titanicus news we might see is more info from the computer game of the same name.

There’s a forge world open day in two weeks, seems as good a time as any to unveil the Warhound.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly if GW wanted to re-do a tabletop Warmaster for Age of Sigmar then tieing it into a release of Total War Sigmar would be a great marketing move

Right I've been chatting with several GW staff and I have bad news at launch the grandmaster boxset is limited to 20000 copies world wide with no more available until Xmas with a sale price of £180 and will NOT be available in-store



This is due to low production prority as it's only a specialist game

 Yodhrin wrote:
I really, really dislike these "limited time only! buy buy buy!" affairs. I want to give you money GW, I have it right here put aside for this, but now you demand that in order to be permitted to give it to you I have to fething camp out your website at 10am on a Saturday morning and hope I can get my transaction through before all the other folk doing the same thing, many of whom will doubtless be scalper-scum who'll turn around and stick them on ebay.

If the big "deal" box is limited to 20K global and webstore exclusive(which is will be, surely? They won't be willing to allocate any to online retailers if there's that few available), will it even be a deal any more compared to just buying all the parts on their own with 20-25% off?

Unless the production thing means stock of the whole launch range is going to be pretty scarce(hence why so little of it is getting put in the big showy discount box), which is a great way to ensure the game is stillborn.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I really, really dislike these "limited time only! buy buy buy!" affairs. I want to give you money GW, I have it right here put aside for this, but now you demand that in order to be permitted to give it to you I have to fething camp out your website at 10am on a Saturday morning and hope I can get my transaction through before all the other folk doing the same thing, many of whom will doubtless be scalper-scum who'll turn around and stick them on ebay.

If the big "deal" box is limited to 20K global and webstore exclusive(which is will be, surely? They won't be willing to allocate any to online retailers if there's that few available), will it even be a deal any more compared to just buying all the parts on their own with 20-25% off?

Unless the production thing means stock of the whole launch range is going to be pretty scarce(hence why so little of it is getting put in the big showy discount box), which is a great way to ensure the game is stillborn.

if you read a bit further in the sentence you get to 'with no more available until Xmas '

sound like they either do the planned launch with limited stock or delay the whole thing, limited production capacity is clearly a thing they're struggling with given how many releases have stuff going OOS on the first day of the pre-order period remaining tricky to get hold of for months afterwards

better to do a release with a significant chunk of stock (20K isn't small) and then build up enough for a refresh at Christmas than the same release then maybe a box or 2 for some stores the week after, and some different stores the week after that

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Was gonna save some money for this, but not at that price. Looks like my historicals collection will be getting some love.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And don’t forget, this is a Heresy Product. I suspect very few Heresy players will blink at £180, simply because they can spend that on a single Super Heavy, or even just a couple of squads.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Maybe I'm not getting enough of a handle on 20K units, but it doesn't sound like a whole lot globally.

 smurfORnot wrote:
180 is a lot for 6 primaris size knights + 2 warlords. And I kinda don't see it being very appealing just to play as core box with 1 warlord + 3knights vs 1 warlord + 3knights. This would get old very fast, whoever has a bit more luck with dices wins. So you wanna invest in few more blisters, and suddenly you are already at 300pounds mark and have like 6 models per side,lol, of which 50% are primaris size...

Cyrixiinus wrote:

Right I've been chatting with several GW staff and I have bad news at launch the grandmaster boxset is limited to 20000 copies world wide with no more available until Xmas with a sale price of £180 and will NOT be available in-store



This is due to low production prority as it's only a specialist game

Grandmaster damion on the Bolter and Chainsword.

 Original Timmy wrote:

Are you gaking me!? extremely limited release on a product they have been pushing at a lot of events and a hefty £180 price tag! was more expecting @£120 entry point in line with most the other boxes

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, 20k is, taken at face value, a lot of product.

To put it on context, they could (I know the rumour says they're not, but they could) send each store on the planet 5 copies and still have 90% of it left.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It is indeed.

Sceptical as I usually am of such things, it’s still the only info we’ve got so far.

Grandmaster damion wrote:Right lts a combination of managers back from regional brief at Nottingham and some one in warehouse

Cannot be more specific as I don't want to land them in hot water I was in two minds as to weather to post at all

I trust them all implicetly as we have been good friends for years

 Original Timmy wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, 20k is, taken at face value, a lot of product.

To put it on context, they could (I know the rumour says they're not, but they could) send each store on the planet 5 copies and still have 90% of it left.

Do you know how many copies worldwide GW made for Armageddon and Blood Bowl? they ran out pretty quick and im trying to see if this might be a similar case.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, 20k is, taken at face value, a lot of product.

To put it on context, they could (I know the rumour says they're not, but they could) send each store on the planet 5 copies and still have 90% of it left.

Do you know how many copies worldwide GW made for Armageddon and Blood Bowl? they ran out pretty quick and im trying to see if this might be a similar case.

Don’t think anyone has that info. Rumor just dropped some numbers that we have no comparison for to other typical releases. For what it’s worth they overproduced Dreadfleet, and had the stock recalled and destroyed.

 xttz wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:

Are you gaking me!? extremely limited release on a product they have been pushing at a lot of events and a hefty £180 price tag! was more expecting @£120 entry point in line with most the other boxes

20,000 copies is hardly 'extermely limited'. That's enough for every single GW store globally to have 25 copies each with many to spare. That's before factoring in the cheaper rules-only starter set too.

It's also worth pointing out that every single product release ever (not just for GW) is a 'limited release' simply because there is always a finite amount of product made. We usually just don't know what that figure is.

Vorian wrote:

 smurfORnot wrote:
180 is a lot for 6 primaris size knights + 2 warlords. And I kinda don't see it being very appealing just to play as core box with 1 warlord + 3knights vs 1 warlord + 3knights. This would get old very fast, whoever has a bit more luck with dices wins. So you wanna invest in few more blisters, and suddenly you are already at 300pounds mark and have like 6 models per side,lol, of which 50% are primaris size...

Are there not two Reavers and buildings too?

MaxT wrote:
Gotta stop calling the Grand Master edition a “starter”. It isn’t. It’s more akin to an all in pledge on Kickstarter.

I was hoping for £150 personally as recently sold stuff on eBay to the tune of 300 quid meaning 2 boxes was an easy buy.

MaxT wrote:
Gotta stop calling the Grand Master edition a “starter”. It isn’t. It’s more akin to an all in pledge on Kickstarter.

I was hoping for £150 personally as recently sold stuff on eBay to the tune of 300 quid meaning 2 boxes was an easy buy.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The big question is exactly how much scenery we get in the box. If it is a full table's worth then the price seems about right.

Vorian wrote:
Aw, don't know where I got the two extra Reavers from :(

Ah well, wait and see what it actually looks like before worrying over a rumour.

I believe it's 4x4

Instructions for the Warlord titan. Having built the full sized variant, this pint sized kit looks very similar.

Fully posable legs as well.

Knights are mounted on 40mm bases. The Warlord is bigger than an Armiger, smaller than a knight.


Street date is August for Grand Master Edition, price in the month's White Dwarf.

Great news on price: it WILL be sold via independent stockists!


Reaver expansion for October release, Warhound for November. Monthly releases planned all the way through to January.

This is a much "crunchier" game than most from GW so expect a more involved amd detailed game.

Chopstick wrote:
So the city is 2 of this set?

Spoiler:

Hopefully you can stack them into a skyscrapper.