For those not in the know, at a convention the super geniuses at Prodos put all their cash from sales in a metal lockbox on the counter and no one was watching it. Some schmuck took off with it getting all the cash from the whole weekend while the employees were doing demos and selling other things.
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I think the size comparisons show the new stuff is alot bigger. Like the an old Emperor class just kinda sorta meets the size requirements for the new warlord size.
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I believe this image from the OP sums it up nicely:
Bit of an unboxing video. Plenty of info we've already heard but some new snippets.
I was most interested in the talk about new plastic weapons, new rules for different legions, and transfer sheets for said legions all as (possible) future releases.
zedmeister wrote: Well, the knight theft means all models now being under lock and key in future open days. No more handling. Little Berk thief...
It sucks that people are so shifty. But they aren't going to stop letting people handle stuff, this isn't the first time this has happened either. This was confirmed by AH or one of the other staff on FB. They should just have a surveillance handling area though if this continues to happen. Or just not let anything slip out of sight, but that can be hard in a busy event.
Chopstick wrote: Soooo....no-option Warlord. and no-option Imperial Knight.
Guess I'm on team Warhound then.
How else will they nickel-and-dime you for upgrade sprues and reboxed solo Warlords with more options?
The real test of how cynical their strategy for this is will be if the main rules don’t include rules for the other Titans and you have to buy their rules later, a la Gang War.
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
You could use a lot of the older Warhounds as Knights, and the old plastic Warlords as Warhounds.
Also, quoting myself:
Darnok wrote: For those interested in a szie comparison of the old plastic Imperator titan.
On its own...
... and alongside a Primaris Marine and the new Warlord titan (identical base size):
So the old Imperator titan could still "count as" a Warlord - maybe some fancy variant. But without the castle structures atop of it it would qualify as a Reaver, so...
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I don't think you'll have much of a problem if you only use one set of minis or the other. Mixing will not probably work, given the radical change in size of at least the Warlord.
Chopstick wrote: Soooo....no-option Warlord. and no-option Imperial Knight.
Guess I'm on team Warhound then.
How else will they nickel-and-dime you for upgrade sprues and reboxed solo Warlords with more options?
The real test of how cynical their strategy for this is will be if the main rules don’t include rules for the other Titans and you have to buy their rules later, a la Gang War.
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I don't think you'll have much of a problem if you only use one set of minis or the other. Mixing will not probably work, given the radical change in size of at least the Warlord.
It might need a little fudging (e.g. that fire arc template will look a bit silly placed against the smaller base of the old Titans), but yep, I think it should be feasible. As long as both sides use the same mini scale, and your terrain is scaled accordingly.
I don't know much about how the new rules work, though, so I can't be sure.
If worst comes to worst, and the big base size is vital for rules mechanics and whatnot, you could always blu-tac your old based Warlord onto the new Warlord's base for AT games and pretend it's the 'void shield radius' or something. Could even drill it out and do it as an oversized scenic base.
It also looks like the new Knights are roughly the right size for old Reavers. Maybe a bit small, and I do love the old Reavers, but I wouldn't sneeze at an easy way to get a lot of them for Epic. Likewise, new Warlord could make an especially impressive 'true scale' Imperator for Epic, and so on.
Hmm... now that's got me thinking. (A dangerous pastime, I know.)
changemod wrote: They probably won’t consider it that big a deal that someone palmed an unpainted model worth what, £10-12 when you factor in it’s a third of a kit?
Theft = Bad, sure, but it’s not really damaging to the company.
I imagine it's more about having one before release. Even if you can never brag about it.
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I don't think you'll have much of a problem if you only use one set of minis or the other. Mixing will not probably work, given the radical change in size of at least the Warlord.
It might need a little fudging (e.g. that fire arc template will look a bit silly placed against the smaller base of the old Titans), but yep, I think it should be feasible. As long as both sides use the same mini scale, and your terrain is scaled accordingly.
As far as I can see, the fire arc template is only to divide the oval base into equal quadrants - no need to use it with models on other-shaped bases - either eyeball it or paint marks onto the bases (original 60mm titan bases have 8 marks around the rim at 45degree increments anyway).
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I don't think you'll have much of a problem if you only use one set of minis or the other. Mixing will not probably work, given the radical change in size of at least the Warlord.
It might need a little fudging (e.g. that fire arc template will look a bit silly placed against the smaller base of the old Titans), but yep, I think it should be feasible. As long as both sides use the same mini scale, and your terrain is scaled accordingly.
I don't know much about how the new rules work, though, so I can't be sure.
If worst comes to worst, and the big base size is vital for rules mechanics and whatnot, you could always blu-tac your old based Warlord onto the new Warlord's base for AT games and pretend it's the 'void shield radius' or something. Could even drill it out and do it as an oversized scenic base.
It also looks like the new Knights are roughly the right size for old Reavers. Maybe a bit small, and I do love the old Reavers, but I wouldn't sneeze at an easy way to get a lot of them for Epic. Likewise, new Warlord could make an especially impressive 'true scale' Imperator for Epic, and so on.
Hmm... now that's got me thinking. (A dangerous pastime, I know.)
I’m not quite as confident there.
See, previously Reavers and Warlords were on the same sized Titan Base. With the new version, it’s likely if you can fit your base between buildings, you can’t take that route. And being a game of manoeuvring as much as sheer Dakka, that could mean you miss out on some of the intended challenges.
And here’s a quote from the original that I hope still carries meaning!
The arming of Titans must, by necessity, always be a compromise. To gain long range you must sacrifice firepower, and vice versa. You must approach this decision at two levels.
Firstly the level of the individual Titan. Consider carefully what it must achieve and how its armament will affect its ability to fulfil its objective.
Secondly, the level of the force itself: this may be the Legion as a whole or a battle group on a particular mission. Never forget that a Titan force is a team - a single body, and may have specialised members designed for specific tasks.
Meditate on the subject if you feel the need, or consult the Imperial Tarot. The decision is important, so do not take it lightly.
- De Bellis Titanicus, attributed
Having the old Epic AT models, are they going to be close enough in size that if I were to just grab the rulebooks I should be able to use my old models?
Not that I wouldn't love to get my hands on the new ones, but if I can also use my old models as, say, Mars pattern titans I'd certainly like to find use for them.
I believe this image from the OP sums it up nicely:
Spoiler:
Yikes, that’s quite the difference!
Definitely interested in pick this up now, at least for the models.
The push-fit models in the Warhammer box sets usually don't have all the options either. It's pretty normal for the basic game to have limited options and the full option kit to be sold separately later.
Having seen them In person now, Warlords are more like Armigers or a Telemon Dreadnought than anything else in size. I have a feeling that storing and transporting an army for this game will be very reasonable in practice.
And if we follow the likely size progression based off the differences between Titan classes so far, I’d wager an Imperator would end up around imperial knight size.
Crazyterran wrote: Game will have to be blood bowl successful to get Things like imperators that they said they wouldn’t do.
I’d expect an Imperator in the context of it coming out in full scale first, given this is a side thing. Whilst making it for Titanicus would probably be more sensible and pragmatic, I don’t see it it happening for a long while.
Well, if an Imperator is 40K knight sized, I can see folks just using their Knights if GW/ Forgeworld doesn’t make ‘em.
Though that would be a hilarious wrap-around - someone’s then going to take their Forgeworld war hound and make it a Grendel-class behemoth of a titan...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And here’s a quote from the original that I hope still carries meaning!
The arming of Titans must, by necessity, always be a compromise. To gain long range you must sacrifice firepower, and vice versa. You must approach this decision at two levels.
Firstly the level of the individual Titan. Consider carefully what it must achieve and how its armament will affect its ability to fulfil its objective.
Secondly, the level of the force itself: this may be the Legion as a whole or a battle group on a particular mission. Never forget that a Titan force is a team - a single body, and may have specialised members designed for specific tasks.
Meditate on the subject if you feel the need, or consult the Imperial Tarot. The decision is important, so do not take it lightly.
- De Bellis Titanicus, attributed
GW rapidly made that quote go out the window in the past as ever more options and Titans got released. Eventually there was a set of optimized weapon choices combining the best of range, armor penetration, and number of shots. I hope they do a better job this time.
Chopxsticks wrote: Do I recall a rumor that the models had magnet holes in them already? Is it a thing to swap out weapon loadouts?
That is confirmed, yes, for that very purpose. Can't recall the exact size now, but it was reasonable and easy to use.
5x1mm disc magnet holes, says the grapevine. An odd choice I think but certainly workable. This applies to carapace weapons and possibly Warlord main weapons only: Reaver main weapons are on ball-and-socket joints and not pre-fitted for magnets. Even so it should be little challenge for someone with a decent vice drill and some 3x2mm or so magnets. Warhounds are unknown as of yet.
Imperator titan - not likely, according to Owen Barnes. Using an Imperator would be the equivalent of fielding a battle titan in a 40k game. For the foreseeable future, the Warlord is intended to be the largest unit in the game (although not necessarily the only unit that size; there's mention in some of the Horus heresy books of other classes of battle titan; the Nightgaunt, Eclipse, Deathbringer and Nemesis used to be configurations of the Warlord chassis; some or all of them may become different units in the future).
One suggestion for the introduction of alien titans would be that a hypothetical "Adeptus Titanicus: The Beast Arises" supplement would add Orks, and "AT: Dirty Eldar Bastards" would add them, etc. Similar to how Epic Armageddon was firmly focussed on the War on Armageddon, then the Swordwind expansion looked at a different conflict and added Imperial Guard siege regiments, Craftworld Eldar and Feral Orks.
No plans for a digital rulebook (they're of the opinion that you need all the other bits and pieces in the rules pack anyway), but they're not ruling out some sort of app in the future, if there's development time available.
Seems to me that is going to be challenging to manage the hobby aspect of this initially.
Even with magnets, it's going to be interesting to figure out what options to model onto the initial release of Titans and what to leave open for later.
Personally I think things like Imperators and Xeno's are "not/never/may" happen because the don't want to be on record committing to making one when they don't know how the product is going to sell yet.
So I think Imperators WILL come IF it sells like mad. If it makes modest sales or its sales drop off fast or if it never takes off then they can end it with what they've got out now as a finished, just not viable long term project. If it does well I fully expect to see them advance it to the Heresy and see Chaos titans appear, both as parts upgrades and as full knights and titans (back in old Epic there were some cool Slaanesh knight scaled monsters). From there if it continued to do well I'd fully expect to see Ork, Eldar and Tyranid titan units appearing in the game.
Heck it if kept selling strong I'd wager we could see Dark Eldar, Necron and even Tau war engines appear in the game (in fact of all the current races Dark Eldar are the most likely to not end up with a titan scale unit, being as outside of sticking spikes on an Eldar one, they've never had one in any form*)
*Granted part of that is that Forgeworld appears to hate them/dislike them as all they've got is one upgrade kit and one single model. Tau on the other hand have several big knight sized war engines.
Yeah you don't make a game called Titanicus without planning at some point to produce the biggest warmachines produced by the imperium....
That being said though I appreciate them not making wild promises and saying that basically everything you could imagine is in the pipeline at some point. Even if the game is massively successful, the other specialist games have shown us that anything major like an Imperator would be a couple of years down the line at the absolute minimum.
I'd love to see some new versions of knights and titans that we haven't seen before as well! Given the scale even if they are in resin they "shouldn't" be too prohibitively expensive.
Also looking forward to some of the inevitable kits that come out of Shapeways, they are usually a good source for obscure conversion kits that FW would never have the time to produce.
RiTides wrote: I was really hoping for Cerastus Knights - they’d be so perfect at this scale!
I wonder if they'll be sturdy enough in resin if FW decides to do them...
At the open day I was told that Cerastus and Acastus are in the works when I asked if they were planning on doing other knights.
Essentially I asked about other knights, and the guy said the forge world ones were planned and specified those two, probably to differentiate and thus say there’s not current plans for Armigers and dominus.
(Personally, I think a single base with a lance of Armigers on it would be cool, like a 40k swarm unit)
I was told they weren't sure if the Dominus would be suitable for AT, as quite a few of its weapon systems would be irrelevant (the shoulder-mounted cannons, for example). I wouldn't rule them out, but I expect we'll see the Forge World-designed chassis first.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was told they weren't sure if the Dominus would be suitable for AT, as quite a few of its weapon systems would be irrelevant (the shoulder-mounted cannons, for example). I wouldn't rule them out, but I expect we'll see the Forge World-designed chassis first.
The solution there is to abstract the extra weaponry into a single system that, as a whole rather than individually rolled, does chip damage.
Given that we see the Questoris knights in the box, I suspect they may do the common GW knights like the Dominus before branching into the rare FW stuff.
Nurglitch wrote: Given that we see the Questoris knights in the box, I suspect they may do the common GW knights like the Dominus before branching into the rare FW stuff.
The fact that they’ve stated the opposite aside, that’s pretty illogical on the grounds that the dominus and Armigers are brand new, whilst the FW and Specialist Games dept have had Cerastus knights to work with for years.
Nurglitch wrote: Given that we see the Questoris knights in the box, I suspect they may do the common GW knights like the Dominus before branching into the rare FW stuff.
The fact that they’ve stated the opposite aside, that’s pretty illogical on the grounds that the dominus and Armigers are brand new, whilst the FW and Specialist Games dept have had Cerastus knights to work with for years.
Facts and logic are over-rated! Just kidding, good point. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the chickens actually hatch.
Most of GW’S work is digital sculpting these days, so my guess is it would be easier for them to rescale recent kits more so than older kits - I’m not sure if FW itself is using digital sculpts these days for its kits.
Can't wait to see the Reviler Titan (sized between a Warhound and heavy Knight, armed with an Inferno Cannon), the Carnivore, Maines, and Mirage (heavy battle titan) Titan classes as well!
AndrewGPaul wrote: They are. The Cerastus Knight-Atrapos is definitely digitally-sculpted, not sure about the others.
I think the Atrapos is the best looking one of the lot.
The imperator would be cool but they should focus on getting the "normal" ones out first. The dominus stuff will be interesting if they can get the loadouts right(maybe new types).
I'm hoping the cerastus knights end up in plastic, maybe 2 per box. Keeping the chassis plastic will help these be less expensive and easier to obtain than resin from FW. I have very little interest in seeing armigers though.
The quality of the models is such that I, a person who was never really into Titans and stuff before, am gonna be hard tempted to pick up some little knights. Getting the big box is probably too much for me despite that warlord looking amazing...
Rescaling 3d files is largely a myth, while it might be a time saver in terms of the basc shape and geometry of the model, all of the details still need to be resculpted manually as they need to be exaggerated in order for them to be rendered appropriately for production. Most of the details on the 40k scale models (things like rivets, etc) need to be removed entirely because they are below the threshold of what can be rendered at this scale.
I believe one of the GW sculptors confirmed as much at one of the open days and said thst all the AT minis are being sculpted from scratch.
So, this is GW releasing Titans as an official part of the game now?, instead of just ForgeWorld Apocalypse games?
So, what does GW plan on doing for the Imperitus Titan? You know, the titan whose scale model is suppose to be a Minimum of 6 ft tall?
Vasarto wrote: So, this is GW releasing Titans as an official part of the game now?, instead of just ForgeWorld Apocalypse games?
So, what does GW plan on doing for the Imperitus Titan? You know, the titan whose scale model is suppose to be a Minimum of 6 ft tall?
Vasarto wrote: So, this is GW releasing Titans as an official part of the game now?, instead of just ForgeWorld Apocalypse games?
So, what does GW plan on doing for the Imperitus Titan? You know, the titan whose scale model is suppose to be a Minimum of 6 ft tall?
Umm. I think you got a bit confused. This game is at a different scale.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was told they weren't sure if the Dominus would be suitable for AT, as quite a few of its weapon systems would be irrelevant (the shoulder-mounted cannons, for example). I wouldn't rule them out, but I expect we'll see the Forge World-designed chassis first.
Then again main guns are more relevant than normal knights.
So, this is GW releasing Titans as an official part of the game now?, instead of just ForgeWorld Apocalypse games?
So, what does GW plan on doing for the Imperitus Titan? You know, the titan whose scale model is suppose to be a Minimum of 6 ft tall?
Your confusion had ME now second guessing the release
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was told they weren't sure if the Dominus would be suitable for AT, as quite a few of its weapon systems would be irrelevant (the shoulder-mounted cannons, for example). I wouldn't rule them out, but I expect we'll see the Forge World-designed chassis first.
Then again main guns are more relevant than normal knights.
It'll be useful against other knights . Or did they just spilled out the secret that knight play no role in this game, they're just decorating pieces on the field
All questoris guns are useless against titan armor and shield, only melee weapon would work.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was told they weren't sure if the Dominus would be suitable for AT, as quite a few of its weapon systems would be irrelevant (the shoulder-mounted cannons, for example). I wouldn't rule them out, but I expect we'll see the Forge World-designed chassis first.
Then again main guns are more relevant than normal knights.
It'll be useful against other knights . Or did they just spilled out the secret that knight play no role in this game, they're just decorating pieces on the field
All questoris guns are useless against titan armor and shield, only melee weapon would work.
Have they said so? So far it's never been so in any incarnation before so would be quite a change. Especially when gw these days think enough lasg(ns will finish off imperator
Have they said so? So far it's never been so in any incarnation before so would be quite a change. Especially when gw these days think enough lasg(ns will finish off imperator
Nah, it's just some of the old rule or fluff that I remember. The titan ceramite plate is so good even melta weapons of smaller vehicle are ineffective.
I actually read some of the old 40k rule again and the plate is actually resistance against haywire, not melta. But all the Questoris guns except for the Thermal cannon is indeed useless against a Warlord Front and Side tho.
The Warhound also have thinner armor on the back. But still I found the most effective way to fight is hit them with the D In that same rule the Dominus battle cannon would be a very good tool to bring down the shield or even damage a warhound in the back armor.
They've said I think that Knights are pretty much just going to be skirmish/distraction units. Not much of a threat, but just enough of one to an already damaged or void-stripped Titan that flat-out ignoring them could go very badly.
I imagine until the bigger and more specialised chassis make an appearance they'll mostly be used as a way to divert the attention of Scout Titans - I imagine a couple of Lances of the basic Knights could pose a modest threat to a single Warhound even if it's still an uneven fight - or maybe as a disposable literal-roadblock to force an enemy to spend an activation clearing them out of the way.
Purely speculation of course, but I can see a single Lance of Knights being to a Warhound what a Warhound is to a Warlord; one-on-one an almost certain defeat for the smaller, but in the right circumstances with the right timing enough of a threat that deciding whether or not to deal with them when other targets are available will be an actual choice rather than a no-brainer.
Owen Barnes did say that the demand for Knights has made them think about creating a Knight Household force list. At present, you basically make a core force of titans, then add one or two Knight lances as support formations. Instead, you could have the reverse - a force of several Knight lances backed up by a single titan.
Overread wrote: Personally I think things like Imperators and Xeno's are "not/never/may" happen because the don't want to be on record committing to making one when they don't know how the product is going to sell yet.
So I think Imperators WILL come IF it sells like mad. If it makes modest sales or its sales drop off fast or if it never takes off then they can end it with what they've got out now as a finished, just not viable long term project. If it does well I fully expect to see them advance it to the Heresy and see Chaos titans appear, both as parts upgrades and as full knights and titans (back in old Epic there were some cool Slaanesh knight scaled monsters). From there if it continued to do well I'd fully expect to see Ork, Eldar and Tyranid titan units appearing in the game.
Heck it if kept selling strong I'd wager we could see Dark Eldar, Necron and even Tau war engines appear in the game (in fact of all the current races Dark Eldar are the most likely to not end up with a titan scale unit, being as outside of sticking spikes on an Eldar one, they've never had one in any form*)
*Granted part of that is that Forgeworld appears to hate them/dislike them as all they've got is one upgrade kit and one single model. Tau on the other hand have several big knight sized war engines.
Ork and Eldar Walkers seem the most likely as both are heavily active in this time period and the Eldar do join the loyalists on a number of occasions - although they make it clear they are not fighting with the Imperium they are fighting against Horus.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The suggestion was that expansions introducing alien factions might not necessarily be set during the Heresy, but that was an off the cuff discussion.
I think if AT gets to a point where they are adding Xeno factions then they will advance the setting or release a "xeno expansion". One neat thing about Titans is that they basically don't change through time. They are huge ancient war walkers of death that generally remain the same design and structure*. They can keep all the Imperial designs and then just add Xenos in a few thousand years later.
I also love the idea of houses of knights, though suspect it will be rather like many subfactions. House Bob gets +1 close combat whilst House Dave is +1 ranged damage and House Steve is +1 to hit roles.
* Yes titans have actually changed a fair bit from their early days, esp some like the Warlord. However this is more sculpting advance/change. If anything the current designs are closer to the original older designs than some of the Epic 40K ones.
I've mostly been contemplating the use of the new AT rules with my old (small) Epic minis.
But if I do find the temptation of the new embiggened models overwhelming, it's just occurred to me that I have a couple of Five Star Stories kits stashed in the cupboard that might just work for Eldar Titans.
OK, possibly more WFB High Elfy than space elfy, but I reckon they look neat.
I suspect they might be slightly too large for a Phantom or Warlock--but they'll be closer to the right scale with the new AT minis than any other game I've seen. (Which is why they've stayed in their boxes all these years, unloved and unappreciated.)
Yodhrin wrote: They've said I think that Knights are pretty much just going to be skirmish/distraction units. Not much of a threat, but just enough of one to an already damaged or void-stripped Titan that flat-out ignoring them could go very badly.
I imagine until the bigger and more specialised chassis make an appearance they'll mostly be used as a way to divert the attention of Scout Titans - I imagine a couple of Lances of the basic Knights could pose a modest threat to a single Warhound even if it's still an uneven fight - or maybe as a disposable literal-roadblock to force an enemy to spend an activation clearing them out of the way.
Purely speculation of course, but I can see a single Lance of Knights being to a Warhound what a Warhound is to a Warlord; one-on-one an almost certain defeat for the smaller, but in the right circumstances with the right timing enough of a threat that deciding whether or not to deal with them when other targets are available will be an actual choice rather than a no-brainer.
there are occasions in which several knights brought down titans when working together in the books - hell, there is even the case of huse devin bringign down an Imperator on Molech, although admittedly not without betrayl in the lower decks crews preventing emergancy protocols. The idea is that knights are a minor threat but when ignored are capable to outflank and out manouver titans, expecially the larger ones, and deliver surgically executed crippling blows leaving the bigger fishes in situations where your titans can bring them down quick and without geting into danger themselves.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Owen Barnes did say that the demand for Knights has made them think about creating a Knight Household force list. At present, you basically make a core force of titans, then add one or two Knight lances as support formations. Instead, you could have the reverse - a force of several Knight lances backed up by a single titan.
Well, I was intending to collect a whole Household in AT scale anyway(it's a lot easier to execute my idea of a generally middle eastern-themed House that uses Calligrams of mottoes in place of heraldry without offending anyone while being pretty much entirely ignorant of the language when you can just scribble tiny wee shapes that look vaguely correct ), so having an official list to use them all at once would be slick.
Bloodmaster wrote: ... hell, there is even the case of huse devin bringign down an Imperator on Molech, ...
Of course they did. Because any time an Imperator shows up in BL fiction, it's going to die.
I can only think of like 3 that haven't. Casus Belli (the original Imperator) came close in it's book, but is still alive. One that showed up for a parade in the Second Imperium at some point, and an unnamed one mentioned in one of the Armegeddon novels. The rest are all dead.
Ordinatus are even worse.
And GW is not adding titans to 40k, in fact they raised the points costs of all of them for no reason except to make them harder to take in matched play. 33% to 50% increases in points with no changes to the stats at all.
It's been said that HH era is intially the setting. Its obvious they'll expand to 40k. They wouldnt keep the same knights units, as nothing would change. So a 40k setting later must include xenos. Am I wrong to assume this?
jspyd3rx wrote: It's been said that HH era is intially the setting. Its obvious they'll expand to 40k. They wouldnt keep the same knights units, as nothing would change. So a 40k setting later must include xenos. Am I wrong to assume this?
They haven't promised moving into 40K though.
But the important thing to think about is that it's FW. If 40K titans aren't already in the works, it's going to be quite a while before we see them. There seems to be this idea that 40K titans are coming right on the heels of the 30K stuff. They spent a year moving three titans and the knights from resin to plastic. One would therefore think that 40K titans are probably a few years away.
Bloodmaster wrote: ... hell, there is even the case of huse devin bringign down an Imperator on Molech, ...
Of course they did. Because any time an Imperator shows up in BL fiction, it's going to die.
I can only think of like 3 that haven't. Casus Belli (the original Imperator) came close in it's book, but is still alive. One that showed up for a parade in the Second Imperium at some point, and an unnamed one mentioned in one of the Armegeddon novels. The rest are all dead.
Ordinatus are even worse.
And GW is not adding titans to 40k, in fact they raised the points costs of all of them for no reason except to make them harder to take in matched play. 33% to 50% increases in points with no changes to the stats at all.
The Ordinatus in Helsreach is just fine, Storm Herald less so but not sure if it was salvagable - the Warlord that GodBreaker kills is returned to servicec 18 months later IRC so the Imperator may well be able to restored too?
jspyd3rx wrote: It's been said that HH era is intially the setting. Its obvious they'll expand to 40k. They wouldnt keep the same knights units, as nothing would change. So a 40k setting later must include xenos. Am I wrong to assume this?
They haven't promised moving into 40K though.
But the important thing to think about is that it's FW. If 40K titans aren't already in the works, it's going to be quite a while before we see them. There seems to be this idea that 40K titans are coming right on the heels of the 30K stuff. They spent a year moving three titans and the knights from resin to plastic. One would therefore think that 40K titans are probably a few years away.
If FW move AT from 30 to 40K then they won't really have to touch the titans. Titans are huge walking weapons that last through the ages. So they won't need to update them in any way. This means if they expand to 40K they only have to focus really on adding the Xeno factions - which would be the primary reason to move toward the 40K setting.
But that is all dreaming; right now we need a very solid release that sells strong. From there I expect to see more titans, more knights and Chaos variations/upgrades as well as weapon upgrades. After that we'll have to see if GW take it further.
I'll be happy to see the rest of the weapon options for the existing titans. We have a grand total of 2 carapace weapons represented, out of at least 7
jspyd3rx wrote: It's been said that HH era is intially the setting. Its obvious they'll expand to 40k. They wouldnt keep the same knights units, as nothing would change. So a 40k setting later must include xenos. Am I wrong to assume this?
They haven't promised moving into 40K though.
But the important thing to think about is that it's FW. If 40K titans aren't already in the works, it's going to be quite a while before we see them. There seems to be this idea that 40K titans are coming right on the heels of the 30K stuff. They spent a year moving three titans and the knights from resin to plastic. One would therefore think that 40K titans are probably a few years away.
If FW move AT from 30 to 40K then they won't really have to touch the titans. Titans are huge walking weapons that last through the ages. So they won't need to update them in any way. This means if they expand to 40K they only have to focus really on adding the Xeno factions - which would be the primary reason to move toward the 40K setting.
Right...but the bare minimum for that would probably be something like two titans each for Eldar and Orks. Which is four kits, and there are four titan kits in this release. They'd probably give us more than two each, mind you. And if Chaos is to be a faction, they'd want to develop upgrade kits for the heresy titans. The advantage of the heresy setting is the same as it was with the original release...both sides can use the same miniatures. 40K makes all of that more complicated.
The point is...it's going to take them time even if they started today. And if you pay attention to FW's development times...it's just not something I'd hold my breath for like some people seem to be.
Heretical mutated armour plate kits are almost certainly already in the works, possibly just waiting on sell-through feedback to determine how many to cast for the initial batch.
So the Axiom Maniple shows a Warlord with plasma and a fist. Hopefully this means that more weapon options for the big guy are inbound soon. Its a shame there are no prices shown. But I guess that probably means GW had not made a final decision by the time WD went to print.
Are the Axioms and Warlord Titan really going to be web exclusive? Or is it something else?. That, besides Chainrasps, would be a second really weird decision, making me think of Kirby's GW.
So the Axiom Maniple shows a Warlord with plasma and a fist. Hopefully this means that more weapon options for the big guy are inbound soon. Its a shame there are no prices shown. But I guess that probably means GW had not made a final decision by the time WD went to print.
It's been a while since I've read a copy, but that doesn't look like the normal "here's the things and what they cost" pages, so it might be in another part of the magazine.
CragHack wrote: Are the Axioms and Warlord Titan really going to be web exclusive? Or is it something else?. That, besides Chainrasps, would be a second really weird decision, making me think of Kirby's GW.
The warlord model is not web exclusive - the warlord command terminal pack and weapon cards are web exclusive.
Note that that maniple pack is also command terminals, not models.
The question is - do the models come with command terminals? If they do then the Web only packs are purely for people using non-official models.
So the Axiom Maniple shows a Warlord with plasma and a fist. Hopefully this means that more weapon options for the big guy are inbound soon.
In a recent video ( I think the unboxing one from the FW open day ) one of the game designers says that most options in the weapon cards at launch are covered by plastic add-on kits planned within the next few months. There are a few exceptions that would likely be in resin - he specifically mentioned the warp missile for this.
We get it GW, the promo shots are very pretty, but how about you just tell us the price already? Either we're going to hate it or we're going to love it, blue-balling us with these "leaks" isn't going to change that.
Slinky wrote: I printed those myself on decal paper, and painted in the colours by hand
Very nice! Do you have high res originals? You use laser transfer paper? Alps micro-dry?
Cheers! I found an okay-ish image, tidied it up a bit in MS Paint and gave it a go It's laser printer stuff I bought on Amazon or eBay, not sure which.
Zethnar wrote: We get it GW, the promo shots are very pretty, but how about you just tell us the price already? Either we're going to hate it or we're going to love it, blue-balling us with these "leaks" isn't going to change that.
From Facebook:
Andy Hoare wrote:Well, I could have sworn all the details *were* in there, so I apologise if the actual price and date aren't. I'm sure they'll be released very soon then!
Onky key difference is one person can use all the Titanicus box for one force.
Theoretically:
2 x warlords £100
2 x 3 sets of Knights £60
Rules box £40
Scenery £20?
From seeing the Warlords I don't think they would be £50 each or the Knights so high either as not even the size of a Stormcast with less bulk.
I'm really interested in what the individual prices are for the titans. still planning on the grandmaster box, but kinda want to know value rather than just buying what I want (Reavers & Warhounds) with the terrain.
If the warlords are $65-70ish I'd call them a good deal. Knights should be $35-40. with reavers & warhounds fitting in between. but it also depends on how they do the packaging. if they start to make them bundled together it may change either the actual or the "perceived" value.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Using soul Wars as a basis it's entirely possible the main box is the usual £95.
Soul Wars;
Hardback £35
20 chainrasps £40
4 grimghast £12 ( based on 10 pack price)
5 glavewraith £12.50 (based on 4 pack price)
Ballista £15
Sequitors £22 (based on 10 pack price)
Castigators £16 (based on 3 pack)
Evocators and incanted £24 (based on 5 pack)
Remaking characters based on clampacks £40
£216.50
Onky key difference is one person can use all the Titanicus box for one force.
Theoretically:
2 x warlords £100
2 x 3 sets of Knights £60
Rules box £40
Scenery £20?
From seeing the Warlords I don't think they would be £50 each or the Knights so high either as not even the size of a Stormcast with less bulk.
This is a bit of a false equivalency. Soul wars comes with 8 big sprues of minis. From the adepticus titanicus unboxing video, it looks like 10 big sprues and 4 small sprues and the template sprue are in the box. Also they probably also expect this box to sell fewer copies so they will adjust the price accordingly.
Of course I would love to see the price set at £95. At that price I would buy it for sure. Unfortunately I could see them charging as much as £150.
Personally I think £120 would be an ok price. Any more than that and I will be waiting to see how the game develops.
Yodhrin wrote: The rumour was 180 quid wasn't it? Or did that turn out to be nonsense/speculation?
Sounds entirely feasible. "Knights Renegade" was "Great value" at £120 (despite the fact that it's a few bits of plastic, which in most industries equates to packaging, of sub-negligible value). But aside from me being churlish, a knight is pretty much a warlord from what I've seen, meaning £120 for the two warlords seems reasonable, and the rest of the contents could be anything from £30-£60, I'd say £150 is a moderately optimistic estimate and £180 is certainly within the realms of possibility.
/edit - Renegade also included scenery, so if we factor out the scenery in titanicus, £150 seems about right (though as mentioned above, sales volume must be considered, so they may well tack on a few extra quid).
That's a hell-no for me, then. I'd have to take out a second mortgage.
A cheaper start can be had with the rules box and a couple of separate Titans. It would be even better to buy a big box and a rules box and split the lot with a buddy. That way you still get to take advantage of the discount of the big box.
That's a hell-no for me, then. I'd have to take out a second mortgage.
A cheaper start can be had with the rules box and a couple of separate Titans. It would be even better to buy a big box and a rules box and split the lot with a buddy. That way you still get to take advantage of the discount of the big box.
Ok Buddy. I'll take the knights and Titans, you get the terrain and rules. PM me for my paypal
changemod wrote: Warlords are more like a chunkier Armiger, I was at the most recent open day.
Really? I saw this pic a while back and it suggests differently. I'll take your word for it as a first hand source, but if that is indeed the case I'm a bit disappointed (I was planning on perhaps modding a couple of 28mm knights into warlord proxies)
They are smaller, but definitely aren't armiger sized. I've read more than one person describe 8mm Warlords as about Thanatar-sized, which looks like this:
(for comparison, an Armiger would come up to the Knight's waist)
changemod wrote: Warlords are more like a chunkier Armiger, I was at the most recent open day.
Really? I saw this pic a while back and it suggests differently. I'll take your word for it as a first hand source, but if that is indeed the case I'm a bit disappointed (I was planning on perhaps modding a couple of 28mm knights into warlord proxies)
They are smaller, but definitely aren't armiger sized. I've read more than one person describe 8mm Warlords as about Thanatar-sized, which looks like this:
(for comparison, an Armiger would come up to the Knight's waist)
A thanatar is an apt comparison, but an Armiger is taller than a knight’s waist.
changemod wrote: Warlords are more like a chunkier Armiger, I was at the most recent open day.
Really? I saw this pic a while back and it suggests differently. I'll take your word for it as a first hand source, but if that is indeed the case I'm a bit disappointed (I was planning on perhaps modding a couple of 28mm knights into warlord proxies)
They are smaller, but definitely aren't armiger sized. I've read more than one person describe 8mm Warlords as about Thanatar-sized, which looks like this:
(for comparison, an Armiger would come up to the Knight's waist)
changemod wrote: Warlords are more like a chunkier Armiger, I was at the most recent open day.
Really? I saw this pic a while back and it suggests differently. I'll take your word for it as a first hand source, but if that is indeed the case I'm a bit disappointed (I was planning on perhaps modding a couple of 28mm knights into warlord proxies)
They are smaller, but definitely aren't armiger sized. I've read more than one person describe 8mm Warlords as about Thanatar-sized, which looks like this:
(for comparison, an Armiger would come up to the Knight's waist)
A thanatar is an apt comparison, but an Armiger is taller than a knight’s waist.
CragHack wrote: Are the Axioms and Warlord Titan really going to be web exclusive? Or is it something else?. That, besides Chainrasps, would be a second really weird decision, making me think of Kirby's GW.
Kirby's GW wouldn't have brought Adeptus Titanicus back so that's an odd thing to say.
CragHack wrote: Are the Axioms and Warlord Titan really going to be web exclusive? Or is it something else?. That, besides Chainrasps, would be a second really weird decision, making me think of Kirby's GW.
Kirby's GW wouldn't have brought Adeptus Titanicus back so that's an odd thing to say.
It might have, but it would have been a single boxed set with a once off production cycle like Dreadfleet - probably in way smaller numbers than Dreadfleet was sold. However considering that one-off games like that didn't prove to sell well it might well have been that we'd never have seen it.
There would have likely been no open consideration of taking the game further, which in itself would have stifled sales.
Instead GW today is giving us a game which has a good solid base, which we know they will support in to the medium term with additional releases and which, if given sufficient traction and sales, they are prepared and likely want to, take further with advancing the story and providing more and more choice.
CragHack wrote: Are the Axioms and Warlord Titan really going to be web exclusive? Or is it something else?. That, besides Chainrasps, would be a second really weird decision, making me think of Kirby's GW.
Kirby's GW wouldn't have brought Adeptus Titanicus back so that's an odd thing to say.
It might have, but it would have been a single boxed set with a once off production cycle like Dreadfleet - probably in way smaller numbers than Dreadfleet was sold. However considering that one-off games like that didn't prove to sell well it might well have been that we'd never have seen it.
There would have likely been no open consideration of taking the game further, which in itself would have stifled sales.
Instead GW today is giving us a game which has a good solid base, which we know they will support in to the medium term with additional releases and which, if given sufficient traction and sales, they are prepared and likely want to, take further with advancing the story and providing more and more choice.
And with the hype this game has generated unless the price turns out to be a real deal breaker I think we're sure to see expansions. I'd say up to eldar and orks at the very least.
Luckily FW seem to favour the slender eldar style rather than the riveted monstrosity that gw released in the last edition of epic. Though I'm not sure they'll take a similar retrospective view to the ork gargants, GW's last more angular design seems to fit the current aesthetic more closely and we'll probably see any new gargants rooted in that design which is a shame. (I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself here but god I'm excited for this game!)
CragHack wrote: Are the Axioms and Warlord Titan really going to be web exclusive? Or is it something else?. That, besides Chainrasps, would be a second really weird decision, making me think of Kirby's GW.
Kirby's GW wouldn't have brought Adeptus Titanicus back so that's an odd thing to say.
It might have, but it would have been a single boxed set with a once off production cycle like Dreadfleet - probably in way smaller numbers than Dreadfleet was sold. However considering that one-off games like that didn't prove to sell well it might well have been that we'd never have seen it.
There would have likely been no open consideration of taking the game further, which in itself would have stifled sales.
Instead GW today is giving us a game which has a good solid base, which we know they will support in to the medium term with additional releases and which, if given sufficient traction and sales, they are prepared and likely want to, take further with advancing the story and providing more and more choice.
And with the hype this game has generated unless the price turns out to be a real deal breaker I think we're sure to see expansions. I'd say up to eldar and orks at the very least.
Luckily FW seem to favour the slender eldar style rather than the riveted monstrosity that gw released in the last edition of epic. Though I'm not sure they'll take a similar retrospective view to the ork gargants, GW's last more angular design seems to fit the current aesthetic more closely and we'll probably see any new gargants rooted in that design which is a shame. (I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself here but god I'm excited for this game!)
Yeah. As a wee lad I loved all the Titanicus stuff (all GW stuff truth be told) but looking back I really don't want to see those old style models (Gargants, Imperator) returning. Much like the vastly improved Imperials I'd far prefer updated Eldar / orks / Tyranids / whatever else we might get.
Oh I really would love the old style Imperator and the thundering huge tracked wagon that was the old Great Gartant. Those two models on the box got me into Warhammer (heck my first ever models was a boxed set of Titan Legions). I agree some of the Epic 40K Eldar didn't look so great so there I'd love the traditional old style titans.
Also lets not forget the sticker price on the AT boxed set is for 2 full armies and terrain and rules and everything. It's basically everything two people need to get started. So it might well have a high price; but so long as rules, models and stuff outside of it is decently priced I think it should be easy to buy into.
Also being new and very low model count to be viable for games its likely to be a, higher priced, nice side project for many.
Overread wrote: Oh I really would love the old style Imperator and the thundering huge tracked wagon that was the old Great Gartant. Those two models on the box got me into Warhammer (heck my first ever models was a boxed set of Titan Legions). I agree some of the Epic 40K Eldar didn't look so great so there I'd love the traditional old style titans.
Also lets not forget the sticker price on the AT boxed set is for 2 full armies and terrain and rules and everything. It's basically everything two people need to get started. So it might well have a high price; but so long as rules, models and stuff outside of it is decently priced I think it should be easy to buy into.
Also being new and very low model count to be viable for games its likely to be a, higher priced, nice side project for many.
Titan legions and epic 2nd edition were the first starters I bought from gw and at the time I loved the those plastic titans. I think they've aged badly, but to be fair looking at a lot of the other plastics from that time they have held up better than most of the starters. The eldar and ork titans from then still remain a favourite but the launch of epic armageddon brought the boxy slightly uglier gargants and the afformentioned riveted reaver notable for its gargant looking feet! which inspired me to spend many a morning trawling markets and later ebay trying to find the those old gems (and a notable few other imperial bits that had by that point risen to rediculous prices... I'm looking at you capital imperialis!)
Looking back on what I spent on some of my epic armies I might be able to consider titanicus a steal at this point! XD. That is as long as they don't try to go too far in there usual "price based on power level" cause then those warlords could be as much as £100 each and I think that would be pushing it. But either way we'll know where we stand soon enough.
Apparently, it's Knight Renegade price. UK anyway. Which I think is the upper limit for what I'd pay as however you try dress it up, you've got 8 minis and some buildings and a 96 page book accompanied by some card and counters. Pellanor fields is a lot of minis with a bigger book for £95 rrp.
I'd say grand master edition is a good starter for one person but two players is pushing it other than a starter in the sense of "least you got something".
TwilightSparkles wrote: Apparently, it's Knight Renegade price. UK anyway. Which I think is the upper limit for what I'd pay as however you try dress it up, you've got 8 minis and some buildings and a 96 page book accompanied by some card and counters. Pellanor fields is a lot of minis with a bigger book for £95 rrp.
I'd say grand master edition is a good starter for one person but two players is pushing it other than a starter in the sense of "least you got something".
Yeah well if it’s pricier than Knight Renegade, that’s where you have to start thinking “Do I, a single player, actually need terrain?” And start price checking the individual components.
TwilightSparkles wrote: I'd say grand master edition is a good starter for one person but two players is pushing it other than a starter in the sense of "least you got something".
Get a rules box along with the grand master box and you should have enough stuff for two people to start learning the game until they can pad out their maniples with Reavers next month and Warhounds the month after that.
If it does turn out to be 120 quid, meaning somewhere around 90 from online discounters, that will either be stupendous value for money or else the prices for individual Titans are going to be much lower than I was expecting. Either way, it would be reason to celebrate, but I'm going to continue believing the 180 quid rumour until we get official confirmation to guard against disappointment.
Yodhrin wrote: If it does turn out to be 120 quid, meaning somewhere around 90 from online discounters, that will either be stupendous value for money or else the prices for individual Titans are going to be much lower than I was expecting. Either way, it would be reason to celebrate, but I'm going to continue believing the 180 quid rumour until we get official confirmation to guard against disappointment.
Not necessarily. Renegade gave us a crusader and a warden and terrain for 120. But a Warden alone is what, £90?
So it follows (potentially) that if Titanicus is £120, that's where the value is, but you pay a high premium for individual warlords / Reavers etc.
/edit - or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you saying that they might "cut" the value from the starter box, but instead give us cheaper standalones?
Yodhrin wrote: If it does turn out to be 120 quid, meaning somewhere around 90 from online discounters, that will either be stupendous value for money or else the prices for individual Titans are going to be much lower than I was expecting. Either way, it would be reason to celebrate, but I'm going to continue believing the 180 quid rumour until we get official confirmation to guard against disappointment.
Not necessarily. Renegade gave us a crusader and a warden and terrain for 120. But a Warden alone is what, £90?
So it follows (potentially) that if Titanicus is £120, that's where the value is, but you pay a high premium for individual warlords / Reavers etc.
/edit - or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you saying that they might "cut" the value from the starter box, but instead give us cheaper standalones?
No I'm going by the rumour that the "bonus" value in the big box would be about equivalent to a free Warlord. Considering the box appears to contain the rulebook, rules starter pack(terminals, dice, cards, doodads etc), two warlords, two knight lances, and a box of terrain then if it clocks in at 120, either the box is a lot better value or some of the stuff inside is a lot cheaper than we thought it would be. I mean, assume old-Knight price for each Warlord, another 25 quid for each lance of knights, maybe 15 for the rules pack and 25 for the terrain? That'd be well over 200 quid's worth of stuff. At 180 RRP, the "free Warlord" comment makes sense, but at 120? It'd be practically half price compared to buying everything individually at those prices. Or, maybe we're overestimating how much they'll be asking for the Titans individually, if they're more like 50 bob for a Warlord and 15 quid for a lance of knights, 120 works.
Either way it would be great, but as I say I won't buy it until GW confirm it because it does seem like too good a bargain even for today's supposedly-reformed GW.
I can’t imagine that it’ll be as low as 120. That’s wishful thinking that will end in disappointment, IMO.
The Renegade box didn’t include the equivalent of two boxes of Terminators (Knights) or all the terminals, etc. that AT will come with. The ATGM box will be 150 minimum and probably more like the rumored 180.
For being only 8 models, the AT box has quite a substantial number of sprues in it on the unboxing video. It looks like enough terrain for a 4"x4" table, along with lots of plastic tokens, templates & counters.
There's definitely more content that the Renegade box.
Yodhrin wrote: If it does turn out to be 120 quid, meaning somewhere around 90 from online discounters, that will either be stupendous value for money or else the prices for individual Titans are going to be much lower than I was expecting. Either way, it would be reason to celebrate, but I'm going to continue believing the 180 quid rumour until we get official confirmation to guard against disappointment.
Not necessarily. Renegade gave us a crusader and a warden and terrain for 120. But a Warden alone is what, £90?
So it follows (potentially) that if Titanicus is £120, that's where the value is, but you pay a high premium for individual warlords / Reavers etc.
/edit - or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you saying that they might "cut" the value from the starter box, but instead give us cheaper standalones?
No I'm going by the rumour that the "bonus" value in the big box would be about equivalent to a free Warlord. Considering the box appears to contain the rulebook, rules starter pack(terminals, dice, cards, doodads etc), two warlords, two knight lances, and a box of terrain then if it clocks in at 120, either the box is a lot better value or some of the stuff inside is a lot cheaper than we thought it would be. I mean, assume old-Knight price for each Warlord, another 25 quid for each lance of knights, maybe 15 for the rules pack and 25 for the terrain? That'd be well over 200 quid's worth of stuff. At 180 RRP, the "free Warlord" comment makes sense, but at 120? It'd be practically half price compared to buying everything individually at those prices. Or, maybe we're overestimating how much they'll be asking for the Titans individually, if they're more like 50 bob for a Warlord and 15 quid for a lance of knights, 120 works.
Either way it would be great, but as I say I won't buy it until GW confirm it because it does seem like too good a bargain even for today's supposedly-reformed GW.
If a warlord costs as much as a knight paladin, that’s widely overpriced for how much plastic you get even by GW standards.
Yodhrin wrote: If it does turn out to be 120 quid, meaning somewhere around 90 from online discounters, that will either be stupendous value for money or else the prices for individual Titans are going to be much lower than I was expecting. Either way, it would be reason to celebrate, but I'm going to continue believing the 180 quid rumour until we get official confirmation to guard against disappointment.
Not necessarily. Renegade gave us a crusader and a warden and terrain for 120. But a Warden alone is what, £90?
So it follows (potentially) that if Titanicus is £120, that's where the value is, but you pay a high premium for individual warlords / Reavers etc.
/edit - or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you saying that they might "cut" the value from the starter box, but instead give us cheaper standalones?
No I'm going by the rumour that the "bonus" value in the big box would be about equivalent to a free Warlord. Considering the box appears to contain the rulebook, rules starter pack(terminals, dice, cards, doodads etc), two warlords, two knight lances, and a box of terrain then if it clocks in at 120, either the box is a lot better value or some of the stuff inside is a lot cheaper than we thought it would be. I mean, assume old-Knight price for each Warlord, another 25 quid for each lance of knights, maybe 15 for the rules pack and 25 for the terrain? That'd be well over 200 quid's worth of stuff. At 180 RRP, the "free Warlord" comment makes sense, but at 120? It'd be practically half price compared to buying everything individually at those prices. Or, maybe we're overestimating how much they'll be asking for the Titans individually, if they're more like 50 bob for a Warlord and 15 quid for a lance of knights, 120 works.
Either way it would be great, but as I say I won't buy it until GW confirm it because it does seem like too good a bargain even for today's supposedly-reformed GW.
If a warlord costs as much as a knight paladin, that’s widely overpriced for how much plastic you get even by GW standards.
Yes. I'd like to think that the Warlord is £50, £60 at most, and not the £85+ they're charging for individual knights.
I guess the fun of the game will be micro-managing the Warlord and others as they barely move on a 4x4 table, shooting 24 inches before moving into close combat that will take several turns to resolve. No room for movement, and judging by those city tiles, about as much strategy as Battletech. I mean with a model that big, you have to create a system that allows it to remain on a table for awhile, so its going to probably soak up a lot of damage. I am sure most games will come down to who has the last healthiest Warlord on the table.
@Ktg17
In the old Titan Legions managing a titan was micro managing it. You had a reactor and power per turn which you had to allocate to different areas of its body (legs, weapons, head etc..) which would let you make attacks, move, boost performance, repair, run shields etc...
Barring big boards the warlords will not be manoeuvring so much as micro managing their attacks; the manoeuvring is the reavers, warhounds and knights etc.... The smaller and more nimble titanss which can duck past buildings and sweep in for surgical strikes.
KTG17 wrote: This size of these models are ridiculous.
I guess the fun of the game will be micro-managing the Warlord and others as they barely move on a 4x4 table, shooting 24 inches before moving into close combat that will take several turns to resolve. No room for movement, and judging by those city tiles, about as much strategy as Battletech. I mean with a model that big, you have to create a system that allows it to remain on a table for awhile, so its going to probably soak up a lot of damage. I am sure most games will come down to who has the last healthiest Warlord on the table.
I would personally be giddy it it manages to need even a fraction of the tactical gameplay you need for Battletech.
£120 is about $150, but given this is GW, that would mean...$175?
Imperial Knight: Renegade is 120 Pounds and 195 US. Despite 120 Pounds being about 155 US currently. I wouldn't be so annoyed with it except that they also force retailers to not ship to certain locations. GW seem bent on screwing Americans as hard as they can.
Overread wrote: @Ktg17
In the old Titan Legions managing a titan was micro managing it. You had a reactor and power per turn which you had to allocate to different areas of its body (legs, weapons, head etc..) which would let you make attacks, move, boost performance, repair, run shields etc...
Yes, for the Imperator but not everyone else (the Mega Gargant has its own rules). But the Warlords were given orders like everyone else. It wasn't until they started taking damage did you have to worry about specifics. Plus while that model was the biggest on the board, it was still small enough to not physically dominate the board. Plus with all the other vehicles, infantry, etc, there was a lot to move and create tactics with. This game is going to have what? 6-12 models per side? Essentially everyone is just going to move those to the center of the board and blow each other up at point blank range. And being as tall as they are, shouldn't take too long to accomplish.
Barring big boards the warlords will not be manoeuvring so much as micro managing their attacks; the manoeuvring is the reavers, warhounds and knights etc.... The smaller and more nimble titanss which can duck past buildings and sweep in for surgical strikes.
That sounds nice if the models were smaller. Suppose this game is a huge hit. And I hope it is. What are Eldar Phantoms and Ork Gargants going to look like? Both of those were larger than the old Warlords.
gorgon wrote: I can’t imagine that it’ll be as low as 120. That’s wishful thinking that will end in disappointment, IMO.
The Renegade box didn’t include the equivalent of two boxes of Terminators (Knights) or all the terminals, etc. that AT will come with. The ATGM box will be 150 minimum and probably more like the rumored 180.
That punched cardstock (terminals, etc.) is surprisingly expensive.
gorgon wrote: I can’t imagine that it’ll be as low as 120. That’s wishful thinking that will end in disappointment, IMO.
The Renegade box didn’t include the equivalent of two boxes of Terminators (Knights) or all the terminals, etc. that AT will come with. The ATGM box will be 150 minimum and probably more like the rumored 180.
That punched cardstock (terminals, etc.) is surprisingly expensive.
As any boardgamer can attest to... yes, cardboard is expensive as all hell.
£120 is about $150, but given this is GW, that would mean...$175?
Imperial Knight: Renegade is 120 Pounds and 195 US. Despite 120 Pounds being about 155 US currently. I wouldn't be so annoyed with it except that they also force retailers to not ship to certain locations. GW seem bent on screwing Americans as hard as they can.
£120 is about $150, but given this is GW, that would mean...$175?
Imperial Knight: Renegade is 120 Pounds and 195 US. Despite 120 Pounds being about 155 US currently. I wouldn't be so annoyed with it except that they also force retailers to not ship to certain locations. GW seem bent on screwing Americans as hard as they can.
That's cute.
yeah, I really feel for y'all down under. you get screwed both ways. I've looked into getting an engine shipped and it takes forever and costs $$$$$US.
So just from speculation/wishing here, in this thread?
I mean, I'd be really happy if it was 'only' £120, but if our only 'source' for this is 'no source'...
£120 is about $150, but given this is GW, that would mean...$175?
Does GW dare to put out a $200 'starter' set?
If it ends up being more than 200 usd then it probably won't take off at my lgs, it'll just be too prohibitive to start a community around an inherently niche game. I'll probably still get it, but it's going to be a battle to get other people interested in the game when they are already busy with 40k/aos or whatever else. You basically need 5 titans per side to play a full game, plus a banner of knights depending on what the points level is. They probably have this line of thinking that it isn't a starter set, but moreso a compilation box.
Regardless, if they are previewing the game thursday on twitch they need to seriously consider revealing the prices so people can prepare. If we don't find out until the pre orders go up on the NZ site it'll be hilarious to see the backlash...and that depends on whether it's a reasonable price or just absurd.
That sounds nice if the models were smaller. Suppose this game is a huge hit. And I hope it is. What are Eldar Phantoms and Ork Gargants going to look like? Both of those were larger than the old Warlords.
The models really aren't that big for a 4x4 board. Even if a Phantom ended up the size of a Wraithknight it's hardly like it's taking up the whole board.
Overread wrote: @Ktg17
In the old Titan Legions managing a titan was micro managing it. You had a reactor and power per turn which you had to allocate to different areas of its body (legs, weapons, head etc..) which would let you make attacks, move, boost performance, repair, run shields etc...
Yes, for the Imperator but not everyone else (the Mega Gargant has its own rules). But the Warlords were given orders like everyone else. It wasn't until they started taking damage did you have to worry about specifics. Plus while that model was the biggest on the board, it was still small enough to not physically dominate the board. Plus with all the other vehicles, infantry, etc, there was a lot to move and create tactics with. This game is going to have what? 6-12 models per side? Essentially everyone is just going to move those to the center of the board and blow each other up at point blank range. And being as tall as they are, shouldn't take too long to accomplish.
Do you not think we'll be getting squadrons of shadowsords and the like? I never played Epic but I loved those models and the idea of them, moving slowly, setting up firing zones, bringing down giants that crossed their range (but like I say I never played, maybe they were crap ingame).
Overread wrote: @Ktg17
In the old Titan Legions managing a titan was micro managing it. You had a reactor and power per turn which you had to allocate to different areas of its body (legs, weapons, head etc..) which would let you make attacks, move, boost performance, repair, run shields etc...
Yes, for the Imperator but not everyone else (the Mega Gargant has its own rules). But the Warlords were given orders like everyone else. It wasn't until they started taking damage did you have to worry about specifics. Plus while that model was the biggest on the board, it was still small enough to not physically dominate the board. Plus with all the other vehicles, infantry, etc, there was a lot to move and create tactics with. This game is going to have what? 6-12 models per side? Essentially everyone is just going to move those to the center of the board and blow each other up at point blank range. And being as tall as they are, shouldn't take too long to accomplish.
Do you not think we'll be getting squadrons of shadowsords and the like? I never played Epic but I loved those models and the idea of them, moving slowly, setting up firing zones, bringing down giants that crossed their range (but like I say I never played, maybe they were crap ingame).
To begin with, no we don't. Designers have repeatedly said they want it to focus on titan combat. And yes, micro managing is in much larger focus here (which is fine) with only several models in the game (which is also entirely fine), so let's chill for the time being and wait for it. Perhaps they'll add tanks later on, perhaps not, as long as they'll stay true to the intended focus on titans that's fine for me.
Overread wrote: @Ktg17
In the old Titan Legions managing a titan was micro managing it. You had a reactor and power per turn which you had to allocate to different areas of its body (legs, weapons, head etc..) which would let you make attacks, move, boost performance, repair, run shields etc...
Yes, for the Imperator but not everyone else (the Mega Gargant has its own rules). But the Warlords were given orders like everyone else. It wasn't until they started taking damage did you have to worry about specifics. Plus while that model was the biggest on the board, it was still small enough to not physically dominate the board. Plus with all the other vehicles, infantry, etc, there was a lot to move and create tactics with. This game is going to have what? 6-12 models per side? Essentially everyone is just going to move those to the center of the board and blow each other up at point blank range. And being as tall as they are, shouldn't take too long to accomplish.
Do you not think we'll be getting squadrons of shadowsords and the like? I never played Epic but I loved those models and the idea of them, moving slowly, setting up firing zones, bringing down giants that crossed their range (but like I say I never played, maybe they were crap ingame).
To begin with, no we don't. Designers have repeatedly said they want it to focus on titan combat. And yes, micro managing is in much larger focus here (which is fine) with only several models in the game (which is also entirely fine), so let's chill for the time being and wait for it. Perhaps they'll add tanks later on, perhaps not, as long as they'll stay true to the intended focus on titans that's fine for me.
My hope is that the game'll end up a bit like battletech, combined arms is there, and it's important, but the focus is VERY much on the big stompy robots which are just better.
Stop trying to make Epic happen, this game is Adeptus Titanicus and I just want to micromanage my giant robots without worrying about tanks or squishies.
BrianDavion wrote: My hope is that the game'll end up a bit like battletech
It won't. Games Workshop has a recognizable brand for an 8mm combined arms games - it's called Epic. There's absolutely no reason for them to dilute the AT formula with things that would work much better in a separate (if related through miniatures) product line.
If you want Epic like I do, buy a lot of titans, then throw them at Tony Cottrell during the next Specialist Games seminar while shouting ARMAGEDDON. I'm sure that will get the point across.
But AT will likely advance to the Horus Heresy first and add in Chaos knights and perhaps even a greater demon. THEN it will come to the 40K era and add in Eldar, Tyranid, Ork etc....
Only then might we have a chance at Epic. So we are looking at least 5 perhaps 8 years of solid good sales and development.
BrianDavion wrote: My hope is that the game'll end up a bit like battletech
It won't. Games Workshop has a recognizable brand for an 8mm combined arms games - it's called Epic. There's absolutely no reason for them to dilute the AT formula with things that would work much better in a separate (if related through miniatures) product line.
If you want Epic like I do, buy a lot of titans, then throw them at Tony Cottrell during the next Specialist Games seminar while shouting ARMAGEDDON. I'm sure that will get the point across.
I fully support this idea
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Prometheum5 wrote: Stop trying to make Epic happen, this game is Adeptus Titanicus and I just want to micromanage my giant robots without worrying about tanks or squishies.
Stop trying to limit it to just titans, I want my grand battles with combined arms.
Joking aside, why not have both, of this game eventually evolves into epic then we still have the Titan game.
I do agree that the rules should be different if they go down the epic route, too much detail in a battalion sized game is not needed, as much as I love battletech it’s one of its biggest weaknesses, it doesn’t scale well.
xttz wrote: So was it confirmed that the August WD didn't include any price details?
Yes. From Facebook:
Andy Hoare wrote:Well, I could have sworn all the details *were* in there, so I apologise if the actual price and date aren't. I'm sure they'll be released very soon then!
BrianDavion wrote: My hope is that the game'll end up a bit like battletech
It won't. Games Workshop has a recognizable brand for an 8mm combined arms games - it's called Epic. There's absolutely no reason for them to dilute the AT formula with things that would work much better in a separate (if related through miniatures) product line.
If you want Epic like I do, buy a lot of titans, then throw them at Tony Cottrell during the next Specialist Games seminar while shouting ARMAGEDDON. I'm sure that will get the point across.
No. I will not buy titans. I don't want to spend money on game I have zero interest and wouldn't play or even paint in the off chance fw might change tune in future. Atm they don't sound like epic is on cards even if at sells 10000000 boxes.
Idea of customer buying something they don't want on super slim chance it might get what they want is stupid. You want customer money you offer something they want.
Joking aside, why not have both, of this game eventually evolves into epic then we still have the Titan game.
I do agree that the rules should be different if they go down the epic route, too much detail in a battalion sized game is not needed, as much as I love battletech it’s one of its biggest weaknesses, it doesn’t scale well.
Agreed, Battletech does not scale but it does serve a purpose and have a particular flavor. I am looking forward to exactly what AT is promising. I just don't get why the thread for AT is full of people wishing it was a different game when GW/FW has made it abundantly clear what this game is. Folks in this thread are just spinning each other up and setting themselves up for disappointment based on made up expectations. Like Battletech, nothing about the new AT looks like it would scale, so if you want Epic you're looking at a different game system that is not what they're selling right now.
I don't want Epic, but I want to have skitarii infantry. I'm not exactly sure what role they would serve in the game, nothing particularly crucial anyway. But I want them to emphasise the scale. I want tiny humans standing next to the gigantic titans.
But that will, of course, have to come (maybe) after AT launches, and is super-duper successful AND GW hears that people would love a return of EPIC as well.
I’d probably prefer epic over micromanaging single models as far as rules go, but honestly I’m pretty happy just to buy up a Titan house with a game I’m unlikely to get much chance to play because it isn’t 40k being a distant issue.
In the context of it being a model first buy in, some to-scale infantry to display them with would be great, even if it was just a token unit tossed out as an aesthetic purchase.
Not really, I clearly want the focus to be on the titans. I guess the role I'd envision for this infantry is to basically be some sort of objective holding tokens, they could not harm the titanic units at all.
I want Titans plus super heavy vehicle formations. I'm not keen on Epic infantry. They remind me of the pegs used in that oldschool board game Cribbage (or Game of Life, if anyone remembers that one).
The titan on titan combat is what I want, epic would be badass but AT should just be small model count armies with lots of decisions and choices to make.
In the future I do want epic, more so that I can use my badass titan models in an additional game.
I'm really looking forward to blasting heretics with the might of God-machines.
Crimson wrote: I don't want Epic, but I want to have skitarii infantry. I'm not exactly sure what role they would serve in the game, nothing particularly crucial anyway. But I want them to emphasise the scale. I want tiny humans standing next to the gigantic titans.
I would have loved some little Skitarii thrown on the sprues purely as basing details to show off the scale of the Titans. As it stands, I'll probably be buying some old Epic infantry instead.
Weii if gw doesn't sell product i want why would i buy it? I buy titans when there's game i want that uses them. Not a day before. Maybe you are rich enough you buy models just to put on boxes never to be seen again but i can think better use for the money
Would I still be happy if we "just" keep getting more titan's (including Xenos)? Heck, yeah!
The only "lose" scenario I see is if the basic set is all we ever get.
I'd be very surprised if that was the case. Remember that the core components of this game have been complete for at least 2 years; GW judged demand high enough to delay the release and start a new range of plastic models rather than small-run resin ones.
My only worry is how much stuff they have in the pipeline to keep momentum going until they have time to develop major additions. Eldar knights & titans could be simple enough given that they already exist and are much less complex models that their imperial counterparts. Ork content worries me, as I expect doing gargants to the same standard as these new titans would take a good couple of years.
Weii if gw doesn't sell product i want why would i buy it? I buy titans when there's game i want that uses them. Not a day before. Maybe you are rich enough you buy models just to put on boxes never to be seen again but i can think better use for the money
It's very nice of you to drop by a thread about a new game to proclaim to a bunch of strangers that you have no interest in buying it.
Please be sure to do this for all the other rumour threads. Clearly the opinion of forum poster tneva82 is very valuable and greatly contributes to everyone discussing details of a game they will play.
Damn kids are just too young to k ow that Adeptus Titanicus was titans only.
Its like complaining as to why vehicles are not in Necromunda, even though it was years after the original release that the Ash Waste vehicles rules came out.
We aren't going to see an Epic game come out soon (as much as I want a resurgence of it, too) At least let all the damn titans get released for the game that specifically features them first!
just gonna throw this out there... Travel battle from the perry brothers is 8mm scale. The napoleonic line troops and gun betteries could make a pretty good stand in for those wishing to add crew/groud troops to their terrain and objectives.
nicromancer wrote: just gonna throw this out there... Travel battle from the perry brothers is 8mm scale. The napoleonic line troops and gun betteries could make a pretty good stand in for those wishing to add crew/groud troops to their terrain and objectives.
That's not a bad idea - and they sell the Infantry & houses separately.
Natfka have posted an anon rumour that suggests the Grand Master box is not worth the money as you only need one Warlord per force typically..
Which seems unlikely. TBH by now WD subscribers should have their copy, it'll be on UK shelves Friday morning so surprised we have not seen more images?
Well yeah the game can clearly be played with just one Warlord; its a very micro heavy game so one Warlord and a few knights is still going to be fun.
Doesn't mean taking two or three isn't fun
I think its more likely that a lot of people will drip-feed into this with one or two purchases of the titans over time rather than leaping in with the boxed set. Indeed this game could be the expensive end micro heavy game that people seem to enjoy a lot of today. Giving players that micro experience but with bigger more impressive models instead of always limited itself to small troops.
At this point the lack of pricing info and 'accidentally' missing it out of White Dwarf is starting to smell like those hyped up video game releases that mysteriously don't get reviewed until release day...
Oh, I know that I need four Warlords. At least. Two loyalist, and two traitor, bare minimum, right?
Also, the Battle report is somewhat limites on the rules revealing, but the game does seem fun. Some managing of resources, decent tactical flexibility, looks fine really.
I’m building a standard Demi-legio: two Warlords, three Reavers, six Warhounds, five banners of Knights. Then an Imperator when Tony C. finally gets tired of people asking.
The Grand Master box is basically a down-payment on that as far as I’m concerned.
That’s the kind of hair brained logic that will also see me buy the Legio Cupboard. Always kept in reserved on sprue in their glorious PlasticBattlegrey livery.
Regarding game size, in the WD preview James Hewitt answers the question by saying that the full game usually includes a couple of titans and few banners of knights per side. So worry not, the Grand Master will see use in its entirety and Natfka can piss the right off as like the baseless rumourmongers that they always are.
Edit: more accurate quote: "four or five titans and maybe a banner of knights".
Sherrypie wrote: Regarding game size, in the WD preview James Hewitt answers the question by saying that the full game usually includes a couple of titans and few banners of knights per side. So worry not, the Grand Master will see use in its entirety and Natfka can piss the right off as like the baseless rumourmongers that they always are.
Edit: more accurate quote: "four or five titans and maybe a banner of knights".
I just don't understand why people go to naftka and BoLS anymore. All I ever see there is outright lies, wild rumors with no basis in reality, terrible tactics discussions and very unfunny dry humor that only their fanbases understand. When it comes to getting news, I've pretty much only stuck two the official community site. It's far too reliable for me to go anywhere else.
Mr_Rose wrote: I’m building a standard Demi-legio: two Warlords, three Reavers, six Warhounds, five banners of Knights. Then an Imperator when Tony C. finally gets tired of people asking.
The Grand Master box is basically a down-payment on that as far as I’m concerned.
Yup, demi-Legio and a Knight Household for me, hopefully the latter becomes a viable list of its own eventually once the big'un FW Knights are available. What's odd for me is I don't have any idea what faction and theme to go with for my Legio. Normally I have all this stuff planned out well before I buy a single model, but for this I'm as hype for new background material as I am for the models.
Okay, odd question for longtime Epic/Adeptus Titanicus players. I have the original 1E AT rules, and I've been wondering of late what the 2E rules ("Titan Legions") changed, and if they were worth picking up for use with my old models. Unfortunately, the online articles I've been looking over haven't been clear if there were any significant changes between 1E and 2E.
I also likewise ran across an Adeptus Titanicus PDF rulebook last night - I think it was from the GW web site before they took down their specialist game rules. Would that have been the 3E rules?
I'm still excited for this release, but the price has me worried, as I've overbought on my hobbies of late and may end up not having the funds for this at release, and I may have to satisfy myself with older versions until I can save up for the new version.
I’m a weird case in that I’m going to build a Legio Audax maniple. So I only need Warhounds (maybe some Knights too), and those won’t be arriving until October or November. Hence, I’m going to have a wait until I can start building Titans.
I’m still thinking about getting the GM box though. I can move the Warlords to interested parties and hang onto that lovely terrain...
A part of me wants to do a canon legion... another part of me wants to give a nod to my orgins and paint the titans up in the colour scheme of a Battletech Merc Regiment
TwilightSparkles wrote: Natfka have posted an anon rumour that suggests the Grand Master box is not worth the money as you only need one Warlord per force typically..
That's a bizarre criticism.
I'm sure that most Ultramarine players don't need the Deathguard that come with Dark Imperium. Can't imagine there are many slots for Sigmarines in a Nighthaunt army either. And last time I checked you couldn't take Goliath gangers in an Escher gang.
The box is designed for two players. Of course it's going to have more than what one player needs.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Natfka have posted an anon rumour that suggests the Grand Master box is not worth the money as you only need one Warlord per force typically..
That's a bizarre criticism.
I'm sure that most Ultramarine players don't need the Deathguard that come with Dark Imperium. Can't imagine there are many slots for Sigmarines in a Nighthaunt army either. And last time I checked you couldn't take Goliath gangers in an Escher gang.
The box is designed for two players. Of course it's going to have more than what one player needs.
Except that everything within can be used by one person without any hitch too, moreso here than usually, so it is better value for single persons too. Also, that Natfka rumour is just bogus that contradicts what the actual designer of the game has said, so no worries.
But yeah, that line of criticism is very weird. As if people wouldn't buy more models than they'd need at one game ever.
Sherrypie wrote: Regarding game size, in the WD preview James Hewitt answers the question by saying that the full game usually includes a couple of titans and few banners of knights per side. So worry not, the Grand Master will see use in its entirety and Natfka can piss the right off as like the baseless rumourmongers that they always are.
Edit: more accurate quote: "four or five titans and maybe a banner of knights".
I just don't understand why people go to naftka and BoLS anymore. All I ever see there is outright lies, wild rumors with no basis in reality, terrible tactics discussions and very unfunny dry humor that only their fanbases understand. When it comes to getting news, I've pretty much only stuck two the official community site. It's far too reliable for me to go anywhere else.
There's a subset of news sites that have found they can generate decent income for themselves purely through advertising links and clicks on their site. So they give up publishing proper notes and put a spin on everything that makes for "headline news". Outlandish claims; twisted truths; whatever they can say which makes things sound extreme so that they can get all the clicks to their site. IT's very obvious but it works, plus it gets people constantly talking about their site which means new people go and check it out just for that. Even if you go there just for a laugh you're working the system in their advantage.
Stormonu wrote: Okay, odd question for longtime Epic/Adeptus Titanicus players. I have the original 1E AT rules, and I've been wondering of late what the 2E rules ("Titan Legions") changed, and if they were worth picking up for use with my old models. Unfortunately, the online articles I've been looking over haven't been clear if there were any significant changes between 1E and 2E.
I also likewise ran across an Adeptus Titanicus PDF rulebook last night - I think it was from the GW web site before they took down their specialist game rules. Would that have been the 3E rules?
I'm still excited for this release, but the price has me worried, as I've overbought on my hobbies of late and may end up not having the funds for this at release, and I may have to satisfy myself with older versions until I can save up for the new version.
Second Edition basically tightened up the rules set, so that all the model types were using the same system (looking at you, gargants and the 'quick' "Epic Damage System"). It moved from being a titan game with 'normal' units fighting their own battle and trying not to get crushed into a more rounded combined arms game, where there was more interaction between giant robots and hapless soldiers. Titans were still awesome though. It was the game that brought in the popular 'army cards' for troop selection and the targeting grid for damaging titans (and the up/down and left/right dice). The Emperor-class titans and Mega-gargants were introduced in this version. Unlike 40k 3rd to 7th, you couldn't use 1st edition stats with 2nd edition rules, they're too different.
Out of all the Epic to date, it's my favourite version (but I'll happily play any version of Epic at any time).
Finger crossed that warhound titan is small enough to fit all the gun so you don't have to buy FW weapons. Even if that mean getting 2 kits just to get to dual the 2 same guns.
Chopstick wrote: Finger crossed that warhound titan is small enough to fit all the gun so you don't have to buy FW weapons. Even if that mean getting 2 kits just to get to dual the 2 same guns.
I'd expect it to be this size http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28069&start=15 (there's a few size comparison shots that include this mini alongside the new reaver and warlord, and it scales perfectly, despite that the old reavers were far smaller than the new reavers).
Natfka have posted an anon rumour that suggests the Grand Master box is not worth the money as you only need one Warlord per force typically..
Which seems unlikely. TBH by now WD subscribers should have their copy, it'll be on UK shelves Friday morning so surprised we have not seen more images?
Eh? I'm planning to have multiple huge legions. I've got 6 legions I'd like to do at the least with multiple Warlords. The grandmaster box is my first purchase.
So when the game was being designed, the plan was for resin titans, which would be kinda pricey, so a lot of time went into making sure people could play a game with whatever Titans they wanted (up to a maniple). After all, it would suck if people got really excited, spend a load of time and money on a Reaver and four Warhounds only to discover that you *suck* if you don't take at least one Warlord. The game was tested at various levels - at one point, 5 Warhounds vs 5 Warlords was tested. The warhounds lost, naturally, but they gave a good account of themselves.
At least, that's what I heard.
zedmeister wrote: Eh? I'm planning to have multiple huge legions. I've got 6 legions I'd like to do at the least with multiple Warlords. The grandmaster box is my first purchase.
Knew we could count on you for the correct answer.
lagoon83 wrote: So when the game was being designed, the plan was for resin titans, which would be kinda pricey, so a lot of time went into making sure people could play a game with whatever Titans they wanted (up to a maniple). After all, it would suck if people got really excited, spend a load of time and money on a Reaver and four Warhounds only to discover that you *suck* if you don't take at least one Warlord. The game was tested at various levels - at one point, 5 Warhounds vs 5 Warlords was tested. The warhounds lost, naturally, but they gave a good account of themselves.
At least, that's what I heard.
zedmeister wrote: Eh? I'm planning to have multiple huge legions. I've got 6 legions I'd like to do at the least with multiple Warlords. The grandmaster box is my first purchase.
Knew we could count on you for the correct answer.
That's great to hear, never hurts to have flexibility in the game. Judging by the White Dwarf report, the game play itself seems tasty, my BFG side is tingling with joy to have the smaller nimbler knights run rings around cumbersome titans like that.
James, can you tell us anything about the distribution of weapon profiles in the game or do we have to wait until the release? I'm very curious as to how different roles and shapes are spread around the bodies, like what type of weapons use the flame template, can knight guns do anything but plink away at some void shields, how much synergy you built into combinations of shield-strippers and hull killers and so forth?
(And most importantly, will the ursus claw be awesome? 'Cause it's awesome.)
Stormonu wrote: Okay, odd question for longtime Epic/Adeptus Titanicus players. I have the original 1E AT rules, and I've been wondering of late what the 2E rules ("Titan Legions") changed, and if they were worth picking up for use with my old models. Unfortunately, the online articles I've been looking over haven't been clear if there were any significant changes between 1E and 2E.
I also likewise ran across an Adeptus Titanicus PDF rulebook last night - I think it was from the GW web site before they took down their specialist game rules. Would that have been the 3E rules?.
Potentially controversial opinion here but I don’t consider Epic as an edition of AT. The 2nd edition of AT was released in parts in one of the old Black Library magazines, which is probably the PDF you mentioned. Epic is a separate line, currently on its fourth edition (Epic: Armageddon).
Every version of AT has been different in detail but the core concepts of manoeuvrability vs firepower and small forces driven by hidden orders remain consistent.
Epic started from that point but instead of individual titanic vehicles you have entire companies of infantry and tanks equipped with small arms (relatively speaking) - it diverged hardest with Epic: 40,000 which streamlined things too much and nearly killed the game but Epic: Armageddon is actually a really great game spoilt by terrible (non-existent) ongoing support.
Of particular interest to me is that at least the Apocalypse Launchers, as carapace Weapons, have a fixed forward arc.
Given those are solid shield strippers, that really adds to the deployment challenge. Against someone else who knows what they’re doing, a straight ‘in my sights from the get go’ risks them doing the same.
The battle report (Warlord and Reaver vs Warlord and Knight Banner) is over quite quickly, as you’d expect any demo game to be.
Reckon once there’s a bit more metal on the field, that’ll help to extend games somewhat.
Stormonu wrote: Okay, odd question for longtime Epic/Adeptus Titanicus players. I have the original 1E AT rules, and I've been wondering of late what the 2E rules ("Titan Legions") changed, and if they were worth picking up for use with my old models. Unfortunately, the online articles I've been looking over haven't been clear if there were any significant changes between 1E and 2E.
I also likewise ran across an Adeptus Titanicus PDF rulebook last night - I think it was from the GW web site before they took down their specialist game rules. Would that have been the 3E rules?.
Potentially controversial opinion here but I don’t consider Epic as an edition of AT. The 2nd edition of AT was released in parts in one of the old Black Library magazines, which is probably the PDF you mentioned. Epic is a separate line, currently on its fourth edition (Epic: Armageddon).
Every version of AT has been different in detail but the core concepts of manoeuvrability vs firepower and small forces driven by hidden orders remain consistent.
Epic started from that point but instead of individual titanic vehicles you have entire companies of infantry and tanks equipped with small arms (relatively speaking) - it diverged hardest with Epic: 40,000 which streamlined things too much and nearly killed the game but Epic: Armageddon is actually a really great game spoilt by terrible (non-existent) ongoing support.
It's all part of the same big happy family. AT2 was spread over several issues of Firepower and/or Epic 40,000 magazine (not Black Library), bouncing of rules of Epic 40,000 (aka 3rd edition epic). It was a mess, even the writer didn't what it should do. In one issue it was declared it was compatible with the current Epic rules, then it wasn't. The points values were on one scale, then another. Then they dumped all that was written so far at went with a dice allocation mechanic. Bit of a mess really.
Sherrypie wrote: That's great to hear, never hurts to have flexibility in the game. Judging by the White Dwarf report, the game play itself seems tasty, my BFG side is tingling with joy to have the smaller nimbler knights run rings around cumbersome titans like that.
Yeah, BFG definitely had some influence on the rules!
Sherrypie wrote: James, can you tell us anything about the distribution of weapon profiles in the game or do we have to wait until the release? I'm very curious as to how different roles and shapes are spread around the bodies, like what type of weapons use the flame template, can knight guns do anything but plink away at some void shields, how much synergy you built into combinations of shield-strippers and hull killers and so forth?
(And most importantly, will the ursus claw be awesome? 'Cause it's awesome.)
I ain't saying nothing! (Except that yeah, synergy is something that was very carefully considered, tested and worked on...)
Sherrypie wrote: That's great to hear, never hurts to have flexibility in the game. Judging by the White Dwarf report, the game play itself seems tasty, my BFG side is tingling with joy to have the smaller nimbler knights run rings around cumbersome titans like that.
Yeah, BFG definitely had some influence on the rules!
Can you elaborate on this, as far as general design goes? The fire arcs, turning angles, different armour values and such bear a similar shape but it would be interesting to hear how analyzing that rule set lead to some decisions made here.
Sherrypie wrote: James, can you tell us anything about the distribution of weapon profiles in the game or do we have to wait until the release? I'm very curious as to how different roles and shapes are spread around the bodies, like what type of weapons use the flame template, can knight guns do anything but plink away at some void shields, how much synergy you built into combinations of shield-strippers and hull killers and so forth?
(And most importantly, will the ursus claw be awesome? 'Cause it's awesome.)
I ain't saying nothing! (Except that yeah, synergy is something that was very carefully considered, tested and worked on...)
lagoon83 wrote: So when the game was being designed, the plan was for resin titans, which would be kinda pricey, so a lot of time went into making sure people could play a game with whatever Titans they wanted (up to a maniple). After all, it would suck if people got really excited, spend a load of time and money on a Reaver and four Warhounds only to discover that you *suck* if you don't take at least one Warlord. The game was tested at various levels - at one point, 5 Warhounds vs 5 Warlords was tested. The warhounds lost, naturally, but they gave a good account of themselves.
As a soon-to-be Legio Audax player, you just made my day with that comment.
FIRE THE URSUS CLAWS!
Now I just have to wait until...November?...for my models.
Sherrypie wrote: Can you elaborate on this, as far as general design goes? The fire arcs, turning angles, different armour values and such bear a similar shape but it would be interesting to hear how analyzing that rule set lead to some decisions made here.
Mechanically, it was mostly how orders work - in earlier builds of the rules the order system was very heavily influenced by AT first edition, but I swapped in a system very similar to how Gothic worked and sure enough it felt a lot better. But there were loads of other little bits and bobs, too. Always been a fan of BFG.
Maaaan, they need to tell us the feckin' price already, I need to order a bunch of hobby supplies but I can't until I know how much of my budget this month has to go to AT
Nurglitch wrote: Are there objectives or whatever in the game so it's more than just trying to kill the other guy first?
Absolutely! I think the matched play system's one of the strengths of the game - it's a bit different to any other current GW games (it harks back a *little* bit to 2nd edition 40k), and was great fun during playtesting. In short, though, yeah, there's a variety of objectives.
Every weapon has its place, and positioning and manoeuvring are vital to using them well. Anyone who ignores Knights is a fool. There you go
Such enlightenment, much info
But really, it would be very interesting to hear designer commentary once the release is out and you can talk about it more freely, like how weapon profiles were chosen or how their carriers' intended roles in the background affected that.
Are you at liberty to hint at what sort of expansions we could expect to come? Campaign packs with missions and post-game tracking, weapon add-ons, titan variants with the same basic body, expanded battlefield effects?
I think I'll have two warlords, two reavers, a warhound to shadow each of them, and a couple more pairs of warhounds to run around and do their own thing. Also this will probably be the first WD I've bought in at least 10 years.
TBF soul Wars had the same missing price info and it turned out really good value. Looking at the pic of contents I still think the £120 price point I was told is right
I'm good with the pricing band between 165 (current starters) and 195 (knight renegade). I figure we're closer to that $195 for us americans but assuming we're even looking at $30 per knight lance and $60 per warlord we'd still be getting the rulebook, all the fidley bits, and the terrain for $15 which is solid.
Starter? $165 is the current ceiling. Most expensive regular boxset is currently $195 I believe as I don't think they currently have any army boxes on sale for more than $175.
The warlord is definitely smaller than a knight, and with no weapon options. They showed an image in the stream today and the warlord is more detailed, but has less physical mass..at least to my eye.
I think 170-190 usd would be okay...anything past that excessive. Though i'm really feeling like it shouldn't be past 180$. I wanted to buy this in store to support the lgs but with california sales tax that would bump the price up by something like 15 bucks. I'm pretty bummed they didn't reveal the price today. Now I can't make an educated decision on whether I should pre order all the Cawdor stuff...which now i'm not going to do cause I can't go crazy spending money on Necromunda if I don't know how much money I need a couple weeks from now.
Watched a bit of the twitch game, it looks good aside from a few nagging issues.
Random locations being hit by shooting, always feels a bit lazy to me. I hope the rules don't allow for systems to be hit when they are not within line of sight being hit. There is apparently an order to target locations, which helps, but seems to be added to address what to me is a game flaw.
In combat, Knights seem to be able to leap into the air and strike a Warlord's torso from 2" away. There should be a restriction on what smaller titans can reach.
Blast template scatter, it doesn't seem right at this scale. In the game one Warlord's weapons missed a Warlord that was within 6" and each scattered to either side of the Warlord by a large degree. Again, given the scale scatter should only be a small amount, not anywhere close to what was shown.
Now apart from those three points, everything else seems spot on.
Thargrim wrote: The warlord is definitely smaller than a knight, and with no weapon options. They showed an image in the stream today and the warlord is more detailed, but has less physical mass..at least to my eye.
.
Thargrim wrote: The warlord is definitely smaller than a knight, and with no weapon options. They showed an image in the stream today and the warlord is more detailed, but has less physical mass..at least to my eye.
.
like this ?
And that’s a camera angle that’s generous to the warlord.
I think everybody is forgetting that the grandmaster box comes with terrain. depending on how much they sell the buildings for, the box may be an even better deal.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Do we know how much terrain? Are we talking a surprising amount (enough for a 6x4 table) or a couple of small modular buildings?
Game is intended for a 4x4, with only some narrative battles using 6x4.
According to WD, this is so we’ve got somewhere to put the datacards and that. Also, seemingly no counters on the board, all on the datacards.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Do we know how much terrain? Are we talking a surprising amount (enough for a 6x4 table) or a couple of small modular buildings?
3 small buildings. Contents is in one of the recent links posted.
stonehorse wrote: Watched a bit of the twitch game, it looks good aside from a few nagging issues.
Random locations being hit by shooting, always feels a bit lazy to me. I hope the rules don't allow for systems to be hit when they are not within line of sight being hit. There is apparently an order to target locations, which helps, but seems to be added to address what to me is a game flaw.
This doesn't seem too bad to me. Even the best marksman aiming for the heart is gonna hit the liver a lot of the time
In combat, Knights seem to be able to leap into the air and strike a Warlord's torso from 2" away. There should be a restriction on what smaller titans can reach.
Personally I'd just think of this as an abstract
Blast template scatter, it doesn't seem right at this scale. In the game one Warlord's weapons missed a Warlord that was within 6" and each scattered to either side of the Warlord by a large degree. Again, given the scale scatter should only be a small amount, not anywhere close to what was shown.
This does seem a bit weird
Now apart from those three points, everything else seems spot on.
I was afraid of that. I remember earlier in its rumor-mill life, people were claiming what would go on to be called "Grand Master Edition" would be coming with an insane amount of terrain.
Those three buildings will definitely not cut it on a 4x4.
When the heart, soul and machine spirit of a mighty Warlord titan are united in the glory of battle against His enemies. When the Warlord battles with those who would attempt to turn against the will of the most Holy Emperor.
Then in those dire times the will of the Emperor flows through the Machine spirit; powers so vast that they can turn aside the fire of enemies; twist their vision to hit where a titan is not and to leave his righteous engine of war free to deliver the killing blow.
Ergo scatter is partly caused by advanced sciencemagic countermeasures hidden deep within the mysterious innards of the Titans.
Overread wrote: When the heart, soul and machine spirit of a mighty Warlord titan are united in the glory of battle against His enemies. When the Warlord battles with those who would attempt to turn against the will of the most Holy Emperor.
Then in those dire times the will of the Emperor flows through the Machine spirit; powers so vast that they can turn aside the fire of enemies; twist their vision to hit where a titan is not and to leave his righteous engine of war free to deliver the killing blow.
Ergo scatter is partly caused by advanced sciencemagic countermeasures hidden deep within the mysterious innards of the Titans.
Eyeless and screaming, the regiments of the dead shiver their burned bones together at the sound of your tread.
Foul vapours clot the sun.
Oh Machine! Oh Divine Engine! Photo-bright the discharge of your weapons, shattering the vault of the sky and smiting the dirt of the ground to dust.
stonehorse wrote: Watched a bit of the twitch game, it looks good aside from a few nagging issues.
Random locations being hit by shooting, always feels a bit lazy to me. I hope the rules don't allow for systems to be hit when they are not within line of sight being hit. There is apparently an order to target locations, which helps, but seems to be added to address what to me is a game flaw.
In combat, Knights seem to be able to leap into the air and strike a Warlord's torso from 2" away. There should be a restriction on what smaller titans can reach.
Blast template scatter, it doesn't seem right at this scale. In the game one Warlord's weapons missed a Warlord that was within 6" and each scattered to either side of the Warlord by a large degree. Again, given the scale scatter should only be a small amount, not anywhere close to what was shown.
Now apart from those three points, everything else seems spot on.
regarding random locations, depending on how it's done it should work just fine, if they do it like battletech there will still be a reason to flank and attack from differant sides
(this game is 20 years old btw - holds up pretty well imo)
You do understand that game is based on an existing miniatures wargame, right? One that is apparently undergoing somewhat of a renaissance as we speak?
(this game is 20 years old btw - holds up pretty well imo)
You do understand that game is based on an existing miniatures wargame, right? One that is apparently undergoing somewhat of a renaissance as we speak?
In fairness the name Mechwarrior as opposed to Battletech throws a LOT of people. Wasn't a big fan of Mechwarrior: Dark Age but I DID think they did the smart thing to rename the board game Mechwarrior when they did that
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Do we know how much terrain? Are we talking a surprising amount (enough for a 6x4 table) or a couple of small modular buildings?
pretty small amount of terrain but given the scale of the game it should be easy to get more, any "model train store" should sell stuff in the right scale I'm thinking
BrianDavion wrote: pretty small amount of terrain but given the scale of the game it should be easy to get more, any "model train store" should sell stuff in the right scale I'm thinking
Oh damn that's worth looking into. Do model train hobbiests ever need like.. old school gorthic European buildings for anything?
There are options all over the place for easily made papercraft buildings that can be used for Titanicus. Not especially "grimdark" but they still exist.
BrianDavion wrote: pretty small amount of terrain but given the scale of the game it should be easy to get more, any "model train store" should sell stuff in the right scale I'm thinking
Oh damn that's worth looking into. Do model train hobbiests ever need like.. old school gorthic European buildings for anything?
not a clue, never did that stuff myself nor know anyone who does. I've got a hobby store downtown that sells the stuff, might be worth looking into, the best bet for that I'm thinking would be trying to find replicas of famous cathedrals in the right style. Notre dame, westminister abby etc.
So if you remove the scale references (rivets and some of the weapon options), the Knight Castellan would make a great Imperator Titan. I guess it should be pretty simple to use the new AT terrain to get some "carapace castle" if one wants this.
Also: a Wraithlord should be about Reaver size, Wraithguard should be a bit bigger than Knights. So any Eldar aficionado could easily do a "counts as" list based on these two.
BrianDavion wrote: pretty small amount of terrain but given the scale of the game it should be easy to get more, any "model train store" should sell stuff in the right scale I'm thinking
Oh damn that's worth looking into. Do model train hobbiests ever need like.. old school gorthic European buildings for anything?
not a clue, never did that stuff myself nor know anyone who does. I've got a hobby store downtown that sells the stuff, might be worth looking into, the best bet for that I'm thinking would be trying to find replicas of famous cathedrals in the right style. Notre dame, westminister abby etc.
Style would totally fit, it lists dimensions and sounds small but I guess Titanicus is a smaller scale. I also found this just to get a better idea of what it'd look like and maybe a size pic:
https://imgur.com/gallery/U4kXW
(this game is 20 years old btw - holds up pretty well imo)
You do understand that game is based on an existing miniatures wargame, right? One that is apparently undergoing somewhat of a renaissance as we speak?
I absolutely do. I've been into GW and related products on and off for maybe 30 years (I'm 37). The first mini I painted was "Squat with melta gun" I painted him black and gold. He was awesome. I was into MW3 for about a year in the late 90s. I was vaguely aware of Battletech at the time. Now that I think about it I'm surprised I never sought out a Madcat to paint up. But yeah, I know of the game of which you speak.
BrianDavion wrote: pretty small amount of terrain but given the scale of the game it should be easy to get more, any "model train store" should sell stuff in the right scale I'm thinking
Oh damn that's worth looking into. Do model train hobbiests ever need like.. old school gorthic European buildings for anything?
not a clue, never did that stuff myself nor know anyone who does. I've got a hobby store downtown that sells the stuff, might be worth looking into, the best bet for that I'm thinking would be trying to find replicas of famous cathedrals in the right style. Notre dame, westminister abby etc.
Style would totally fit, it lists dimensions and sounds small but I guess Titanicus is a smaller scale. I also found this just to get a better idea of what it'd look like and maybe a size pic:
https://imgur.com/gallery/U4kXW
midget_overlord wrote: Where are the plastic weapon emplacements and silos? The description has them, but they forgot them in the complete set picture, I hope they did.
The sprue was in the rulebook unboxing video, I should be in the master edition box set too.
BrianDavion wrote: pretty small amount of terrain but given the scale of the game it should be easy to get more, any "model train store" should sell stuff in the right scale I'm thinking
Oh damn that's worth looking into. Do model train hobbiests ever need like.. old school gorthic European buildings for anything?
Z-Scale railway scenics will be close to the mark - 1/200th to 1/220th, depending on the subject. (Model railway scales vary to match the differing gauges of real track to the stock-standard track widths produced by model companies.) Z-scale figures are around 8-10mm, so that seems about right.
Kibri make a nice Cathedral that offers good conversion potential:
Alternatively, you could go for N-Scale (1/160th). Lots more buildings etc available. Doors will be large enough for 8mm scale Primaris Marines.
midget_overlord wrote: Where are the plastic weapon emplacements and silos? The description has them, but they forgot them in the complete set picture, I hope they did.
The sprue was in the rulebook unboxing video, I should be in the master edition box set too.
Spoiler:
[/quote
The Arc templates are also missing from the Master box?
Gotta say....if that's the full contents of the Grand Master Edition I don't know why it would be very expensive. I thought it was going to provide a lot more terrain, etc.
PS: Silly minimal complaint, but I'm sad to see three types of D6 dice all cast in the same colour. Would have vastly preferred different colour dice for each type --- simply easier mid-game.
At that price point I'd likely have to pass as well. I like the models and ideas but if that's where they're planning on pricing models (as that's supposed to include a free Warlord) I'd be out. But I still feel like that's inaccurate. $180 would make it the highest cost starter yet and would fit more inline with what's been shown.
The Warlord is 3 sprues and the knights are three to a sprue. Add two, IIRC, sprues for the little bits and 8 sprues of buildings that's 18 standard-sized frames (i.e. sized to fit in the box a Space Marine Tactical Squad comes in, or 1/4 the area of the box top).
Necromunda has 4 sprues that size plus two double-sized sprues.
But probably not 
