does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

BrianDavion wrote:
does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

That's exciting. I might have to start stockpiling BT upgrade kits. Anyone know how well some of the bits for on Primaris? Lol.

BrianDavion wrote:does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

Carnikang wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

That's exciting. I might have to start stockpiling BT upgrade kits. Anyone know how well some of the bits for on Primaris? Lol.

Crimson Fists and Black Templars are going to be part of the Imperial Fists supplement.

BrianDavion wrote:
does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

They will almost certainly be in the Imperial Fists book.

If they skip out on Ravens and Salamanders for BT and CF that would be hilariously awful. Hopefully they are crammed in the Fists book.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
(SIDE NOTE): They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well. You will be able to still ally, but all the best rules will come from staying within 1 faction.

Source?

It's already in the SM/Ultramarine/White scars codexes ! You get doctrines only if all your detachments have the SM keyword. Doctrines are specifically made in order to push people to make one codexes army... And yes DA/SW/BA not having doctrines most likely means that they will get their own doctrines and that to get those doctrines you will have to get a pure DA/BA/SW army.

WhiteDog wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
(SIDE NOTE): They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well. You will be able to still ally, but all the best rules will come from staying within 1 faction.

Source?

It's already in the SM/Ultramarine/White scars codexes ! You get doctrines only if all your detachments have the SM keyword.

I am talking about "They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well"

 BaconCatBug wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
(SIDE NOTE): They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well. You will be able to still ally, but all the best rules will come from staying within 1 faction.

Source?

It's already in the SM/Ultramarine/White scars codexes ! You get doctrines only if all your detachments have the SM keyword.

I am talking about "They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well"

I think he is extrapolating from the current trend.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If they skip out on Ravens and Salamanders for BT and CF that would be hilariously awful. Hopefully they are crammed in the Fists book.

If you have the new Codex, check pg166. There's a list of what counts as "Bolt Weapons", described as being found in Codex Supplements.

Gorgon's Wrath is listed, Dorn's Arrow is listed, Blackout(I don't remember seeing this one before), and Quietus(which strikes me as very Raven Guard-y).
There's also the Gauntlet of the Forge and Drakkis listed for Salamanders in a supplement.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If they skip out on Ravens and Salamanders for BT and CF that would be hilariously awful. Hopefully they are crammed in the Fists book.

If you have the new Codex, check pg166. There's a list of what counts as "Bolt Weapons", described as being found in Codex Supplements.

Gorgon's Wrath is listed, Dorn's Arrow is listed, Blackout(I don't remember seeing this one before), and Quietus(which strikes me as very Raven Guard-y).
There's also the Gauntlet of the Forge and Drakkis listed for Salamanders in a supplement.

Quietus is Telions relic stalker bolter.

Blackout is probably the ravenguard relic weapon.

WhiteDog wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
(SIDE NOTE): They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well. You will be able to still ally, but all the best rules will come from staying within 1 faction.

Source?

It's already in the SM/Ultramarine/White scars codexes ! You get doctrines only if all your detachments have the SM keyword. Doctrines are specifically made in order to push people to make one codexes army... And yes DA/SW/BA not having doctrines most likely means that they will get their own doctrines and that to get those doctrines you will have to get a pure DA/BA/SW army.

I haven't picked up the new 'dex yet, but what, specifically, is being looked for to define an army as being able to use the doctrines?

If I'm reading the PDF update for FW units correctly, it isn't a keyword per day, but the Angels of Death ability - am I right on that?

 Dysartes wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
(SIDE NOTE): They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well. You will be able to still ally, but all the best rules will come from staying within 1 faction.

Source?

It's already in the SM/Ultramarine/White scars codexes ! You get doctrines only if all your detachments have the SM keyword. Doctrines are specifically made in order to push people to make one codexes army... And yes DA/SW/BA not having doctrines most likely means that they will get their own doctrines and that to get those doctrines you will have to get a pure DA/BA/SW army.

I haven't picked up the new 'dex yet, but what, specifically, is being looked for to define an army as being able to use the doctrines?

If I'm reading the PDF update for FW units correctly, it isn't a keyword per day, but the Angels of Death ability - am I right on that?

Angels of Death is just four special rules rolled onto one (Bolter Discipline, ATSKNF, Shock Assault, and Angels of Death). To benefit from the doctrines every unit in your army must have the Combat Doctrines special rule (excluding SERVITOR and UNALIGNED units).

Ice_can wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
If they skip out on Ravens and Salamanders for BT and CF that would be hilariously awful. Hopefully they are crammed in the Fists book.

If you have the new Codex, check pg166. There's a list of what counts as "Bolt Weapons", described as being found in Codex Supplements.

Gorgon's Wrath is listed, Dorn's Arrow is listed, Blackout(I don't remember seeing this one before), and Quietus(which strikes me as very Raven Guard-y).
There's also the Gauntlet of the Forge and Drakkis listed for Salamanders in a supplement.

Quietus is Telions relic stalker bolter.

Blackout is probably the ravenguard relic weapon.

Ah yeah, Telion--the wannabe Raven Guard.

Blackout is likely one of the Raven Guard relic weapons...or at least the 'newest'.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
(SIDE NOTE): They will be doing so for Astra Militarum as well. You will be able to still ally, but all the best rules will come from staying within 1 faction.

Source?

It's already in the SM/Ultramarine/White scars codexes ! You get doctrines only if all your detachments have the SM keyword. Doctrines are specifically made in order to push people to make one codexes army... And yes DA/SW/BA not having doctrines most likely means that they will get their own doctrines and that to get those doctrines you will have to get a pure DA/BA/SW army.

I haven't picked up the new 'dex yet, but what, specifically, is being looked for to define an army as being able to use the doctrines?

If I'm reading the PDF update for FW units correctly, it isn't a keyword per day, but the Angels of Death ability - am I right on that?

Angels of Death is just four special rules rolled onto one (Bolter Discipline, ATSKNF, Shock Assault, and Angels of Death). To benefit from the doctrines every unit in your army must have the Combat Doctrines special rule (excluding SERVITOR and UNALIGNED units).

Angels of Death is recursive? Interesting.

 Dysartes wrote:
Angels of Death is recursive? Interesting.

No, I am just an idiot who needs to sleep at normal times. Angels of Death is And They Shall Know No Fear, Bolter Discipline, Shock Assault and Combat Doctrines.

We already know for sure that Salamanders will be a supplement, a picture is going around of someone's White Scars dice that came in a "Salamanders dice" case.

DA/BA/SW will not be supplements. GW will not release these and then add "by the way, you have to buy the Space Marine codex too, sorry about that". Anything that will be a supplement is already in the SM codex, period.

We also don't know if DA/BA/SW will get their own second codex at all this edition. they may be relegated to existing books, CA changes to points and perhaps WD article for Doctrines, etc. I highly doubt it though as why wouldn't GW want to sell you another book instead of having source material spread all over the place.

telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

BrianDavion wrote:
telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

It's same than all vanilla marines. No one is really going to play without a supplement in the long run.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and a DOZEN seperate units

All are obsolastartes though, no unique primaris units, am I right? See where this goes?

no Because I'm not one of the people running around wearing a tinfoil hat screaming "OLD MARINES ARE GOING AWAY IN A YEAR!" because the evidance is overwhelmingly that they're not going anywhere

Adeptus obsoletus are the future!

GW gave them some wonderful new options in the codex yeah.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and a DOZEN seperate units

All are obsolastartes though, no unique primaris units, am I right? See where this goes?

no Because I'm not one of the people running around wearing a tinfoil hat screaming "OLD MARINES ARE GOING AWAY IN A YEAR!" because the evidance is overwhelmingly that they're not going anywhere

Adeptus obsoletus are the future!

Could not find Discord image, Crimson.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Could not find Discord image, Crimson.

Does it work now?

I wish GW would’ve just ripped the band aid off already!

I want Primaris squads with all the options, special weapons, heavy weapons, devastator squads, real assault squad options with jump packs...

I can no longer stand the sight of mini marines mixed in with Primaris - let’s go already!

(I’ve no problem with my mini-marines for 30k though!)

All kidding aside, I do wish Primaris squads had a bit more flexibility.

And s terminator equivalent squad too!

termy equivilant'll come I suspect. Primaris seem to be coming in waves, the next wave'll proably be the gravis wave

 Crimson wrote:
Does it work now?

Yes. You are basically agreeing with me ^^.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Does it work now?

Yes. You are basically agreeing with me ^^.

The codex is agreeing with you! (And so am I.)

Yeah the "GW isn't going to make BA/DA/SW buy 2 books" argument doesn't really hold. Why do they get 1 book, but they other 8 (counting CF & BT) do have to buy 2 book? How is that fair, or more importantly, consistent?

It would 100% make sense to bring all Chapters into the Codex + supplement format. Sadly, though, that's probably why it isn't going to happen.

Before today I was sure the door was open for those 3 to get a supplement update down the line. But after getting the codex in my hand, there are several places that specifically exclude those 3, seemingly closing that door.
So while it's great that they got an Errata to update profiles and give Shock Assault, those 3 won't be getting Combat Doctrines or the many new Stratagems.

What would have been nice about them being consolidated is that they'd be somewhat on par with each other and easier to update with blanket FAQs

-

Can Space Marines still do that Assassins thing without losing Doctrines?

 AduroT wrote:
Can Space Marines still do that Assassins thing without losing Doctrines?

I've seen interpreations both ways, this is gonna be a FAQ question I'm guessing

BrianDavion wrote:
telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

Its the same for every chapter except MAYBE for custom ones with unknown foundings.

BrianDavion wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Can Space Marines still do that Assassins thing without losing Doctrines?

I've seen interpreations both ways, this is gonna be a FAQ question I'm guessing

I could see the assassins getting another errata. And probably a reprint in the next chapter approved.

Also, it would be nice if the primaris ultramarine sprue got repackaged to 2 in a clam like the white scars one is. The um sprue was always punished on price, since for a while the ba and da ones were added to boxes for free.

 AduroT wrote:
Can Space Marines still do that Assassins thing without losing Doctrines?

I don’t think so.

The Assassin Strat says you add the Assassin to your army. From that moment forward, your army would include a model without Angels of Death.

on another note the codex makes it sound, at least to me, clear that Primaris do spend time as a scout. good to know for those of us working on a all Primaris force. also it sounds like the Primaris have no special vetern units. I'm sure that'll sudden;y be retconned but... it's good to know thats ther case presently

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

Carnikang wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
does that mean black templars and crimson fists are getting their own supplement? intreasting.

but good, Black Templars deserve a supplement, heck I thought it criminal that during 6th/7th the Imperial fists third company got a supplement but black tempalrs didn't

That's exciting. I might have to start stockpiling BT upgrade kits. Anyone know how well some of the bits for on Primaris? Lol.

Crimson Fists and Black Templars are going to be part of the Imperial Fists supplement.

No they are not they are getting there own book this was confirmed on the podcast. Every "enhanced chapter tactic is getting its own book.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Can Space Marines still do that Assassins thing without losing Doctrines?

I don’t think so.

The Assassin Strat says you add the Assassin to your army. From that moment forward, your army would include a model without Angels of Death.

Raw if you use the Assassin stratagem you still get all marine rules because the whole book is "during army creation" the strat is during deployment this does not effect your rules at all.

Do you have a link to the podcast.
Is it a good listen in general?

ThatMG wrote:
No they are not they are getting there own book this was confirmed on the podcast. Every "enhanced chapter tactic is getting its own book.

Frankly, I'll believe it when the books are previewed on WHC (or mentioned in a seminar).

Random ITC people on a podcast are not a trustworthy source.

 Dysartes wrote:

ThatMG wrote:
No they are not they are getting there own book this was confirmed on the podcast. Every "enhanced chapter tactic is getting its own book.

Frankly, I'll believe it when the books are previewed on WHC (or mentioned in a seminar).

Random ITC people on a podcast are not a trustworthy source.

I tend to agree, it could just be a random "every chapter with a chapter tactic gets a book" statement thats being misinterpreted

ThatMG wrote:


Raw if you use the Assassin stratagem you still get all marine rules because the whole book is "during army creation" the strat is during deployment this does not effect your rules at all.

Yes. And RAW, you'd benefit from Doctrines until you play the strat.

If, hypothetically, you could play the Assassin Stratagem in Battleround 3, you'd have Doctrines up until that moment (battleround 1 and 2), and lose them as soon as you add a model without the Angels of Death special rule.

As the Assassin Stratagem is played during Deployment, it effectively negates Doctrine before they ever become relevant (unless there is some strat to start shooting during deployment before playing the Assassin stratagem).

Rule 1: "... units only benefit from this bonus if every unit in your army has this ability..."
Rule 2: "Add one Officio Assassinorum unit of your choice to your army."

Once Rule 2 has happened, the condition set by Rule 1 no longer applies.

Silly question - what has the UNALIGNED keyword these days?

 Dysartes wrote:
Silly question - what has the UNALIGNED keyword these days?

Terrain, for the most part.

 Dysartes wrote:
Silly question - what has the UNALIGNED keyword these days?

Fortifications.

Also some bits and bobs from blackstone fortress

ThatMG wrote:
No they are not they are getting there own book this was confirmed on the podcast. Every "enhanced chapter tactic is getting its own book.

And that's why both WC, official 40K youtube channel, and GW promos proper shown 6 supplement books with redacted names?

Please, I'd maybe believe this if the pictures shown 8 books, but seeing IF and CF have next to zero unique material throwing BT in to pad the book a bit is not only the most logical solution, it cuts on waiting time for the players of all 3 and reduces the amount of shipping and warehouse problems (as well as what players need to spend on the rules). It would be really puzzling if GW did otherwise.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

Its the same for every chapter except MAYBE for custom ones with unknown foundings.

No. No chapter "need" to buy their supplement like DA/SW/BA : there's already all the rules to play the chapters that get supplements in the core book - chapter tactics, relics, librarian discipline, etc. The supplement just adds things, it is not a necessity to play the chapter.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

Its the same for every chapter except MAYBE for custom ones with unknown foundings.

No. No chapter "need" to buy their supplement like DA/SW/BA : there's already all the rules to play the chapters that get supplements in the core book - chapter tactics, relics, librarian discipline, etc. The supplement just adds things, it is not a necessity to play the chapter.

Yep this, I agree.

WhiteDog wrote:

No. No chapter "need" to buy their supplement like DA/SW/BA : there's already all the rules to play the chapters that get supplements in the core book - chapter tactics, relics, librarian discipline, etc. The supplement just adds things, it is not a necessity to play the chapter.

Only in theory. It would be like playing with an index army against a codex army in the beginning of this edition. Supplement just gives you free extra stuff, the super detachment benefits in particularly are really strong. There is really no reason to not use a supplement.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

Its the same for every chapter except MAYBE for custom ones with unknown foundings.

No. No chapter "need" to buy their supplement like DA/SW/BA : there's already all the rules to play the chapters that get supplements in the core book - chapter tactics, relics, librarian discipline, etc. The supplement just adds things, it is not a necessity to play the chapter.

Basically 0 people are going to do that. Unless you're just a contrarian that wants to prove something. Also you don't need a book to play with the rules, the fact that the rules exist make them eligible to be used.

FYI, the guy who told me the right point price for the repulsor executioner and its profil and the impulsor's price told me the BT won't be in the IF supplement but in a vigilus campaign kind of supplement.
We'll see

 Kirasu wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
telling SW, DA, BA fans that they have to buy 2 books instead of 1 to play their army is sure to go over like a lead weight from a PR POV

Its the same for every chapter except MAYBE for custom ones with unknown foundings.

No. No chapter "need" to buy their supplement like DA/SW/BA : there's already all the rules to play the chapters that get supplements in the core book - chapter tactics, relics, librarian discipline, etc. The supplement just adds things, it is not a necessity to play the chapter.

Basically 0 people are going to do that. Unless you're just a contrarian that wants to prove something. Also you don't need a book to play with the rules, the fact that the rules exist make them eligible to be used.

Well, a ravenguard player, an IH player, can play with the current SM codex even if their supplements are not out, that's how it is. A DA/SW/BA cannot because they have no chapter tactics in those codex, that's just a fact.

 godardc wrote:
FYI, the guy who told me the right point price for the repulsor executioner and its profil and the impulsor's price told me the BT won't be in the IF supplement but in a vigilus campaign kind of supplement.
We'll see

That would be kinda awkward.

heck, all of the chapters in C:SM would be in a much better place, even without their new splat books. You still have a specific Chapter Trait and Warlord Trait in the codex so is completely playable now, minus the special characters/units.
If BA/DA/SW also had this in the book, and access to all the options, then they would be getting a supplement. They are not however, so will be getting a full codex or nothing.

Blame GW for this hole they have dug, having to put all of those datasheets in the appropriate codex repetitively now. Perhaps they should have been smarter with execution, but it is what it is.

Quick question, is the new codex the same as the last one when it comes to art and fluff or less?

 godardc wrote:
FYI, the guy who told me the right point price for the repulsor executioner and its profil and the impulsor's price told me the BT won't be in the IF supplement but in a vigilus campaign kind of supplement.
We'll see

See I would have loved these types of Supplements to have been Campaign supplements with a couple of different factions.....

Next week's releases for marines according to WHC are:

*Drumroll*

Nothing. Aaarg!

yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

 godardc wrote:
FYI, the guy who told me the right point price for the repulsor executioner and its profil and the impulsor's price told me the BT won't be in the IF supplement but in a vigilus campaign kind of supplement.
We'll see

OMG, Warzone: Armageddon confirmed!

 Ghaz wrote:

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

Except they have only released one Chapter-neutral model so far. And a divisive one at that. Had they led off with the Impulsor or Eliminators, I would agree here.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

Except they have only released one Chapter-neutral model so far. And a divisive one at that. Had they led off with the Impulsor or Eliminators, I would agree here.

For the non-Chapter specific units they've dropped a codex, and on pre-order we have the Invictor, Primaris Lieutenant and the Primaris Captain and Librarian in Phobos Armour.

 Ghaz wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

Except they have only released one Chapter-neutral model so far. And a divisive one at that. Had they led off with the Impulsor or Eliminators, I would agree here.

For the non-Chapter specific units they've dropped a codex, and on pre-order we have the Invictor, Primaris Lieutenant and the Primaris Captain and Librarian in Phobos Armour.

Only the Codex and the Invictor are actually new though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

Except they have only released one Chapter-neutral model so far. And a divisive one at that. Had they led off with the Impulsor or Eliminators, I would agree here.

where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

BrianDavion wrote:


where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

Did anyone complain about the new Abaddon? I don't recall seeing complaints about him on dakka but it's possible I missed some. And if chaos players can't find anything to complain about in a release then I suspect no one can...

 warboss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

Did anyone complain about the new Abaddon? I don't recall seeing complaints about him on dakka but it's possible I missed some. And if chaos players can't find anything to complain about in a release then I suspect no one can...

I mean the pricetag is bonkers on him though

No that's it, it's a beautiful model easily kitbashable.

Danny76 wrote:
Do you have a link to the podcast.
Is it a good listen in general?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY892gpuI64

34:05 (statement that includes) the confirmation of 6 books AFTER white scars and Ultramarines...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

ThatMG wrote:


Raw if you use the Assassin stratagem you still get all marine rules because the whole book is "during army creation" the strat is during deployment this does not effect your rules at all.

Yes. And RAW, you'd benefit from Doctrines until you play the strat.

If, hypothetically, you could play the Assassin Stratagem in Battleround 3, you'd have Doctrines up until that moment (battleround 1 and 2), and lose them as soon as you add a model without the Angels of Death special rule.

As the Assassin Stratagem is played during Deployment, it effectively negates Doctrine before they ever become relevant (unless there is some strat to start shooting during deployment before playing the Assassin stratagem).

Rule 1: "... units only benefit from this bonus if every unit in your army has this ability..."
Rule 2: "Add one Officio Assassinorum unit of your choice to your army."

Once Rule 2 has happened, the condition set by Rule 1 no longer applies.

Spoiler:

No you are wrong because reinforcement points and etc do not effect army rules. The game rules are NOT designed on a conditional passive state,
It's similar to how Chapter Master strat worked with a specilist detachment. You meet the condition for combat doctrines when you make your army.
once this is met, it no longer needs to be maintained. The stratagem for an assassin is past the timing window for the rules to even matter.
it is during deployment and has no bearing on the "army list" you just get a free assassin (or for RF points).
The other way is how Chaos Players rules break if you take daemon units but if you summon them with RF you don't care.
"they are treated as an external element."

Where did they get their info though?
They said things like “probably going to be” and “this isn’t like one book, it’s like 8 books” but I didn’t hear mention of that being definitive, just the way people chat. But do they have insider knowledge for some reason?
(Also, the Codex and 6 supplements makes 7, so it would technically be one more supplement there..)

ThatMG wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Do you have a link to the podcast.
Is it a good listen in general?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY892gpuI64

34:05 (statement that includes) the confirmation of 6 books AFTER white scars and Ultramarines...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

ThatMG wrote:


Raw if you use the Assassin stratagem you still get all marine rules because the whole book is "during army creation" the strat is during deployment this does not effect your rules at all.

Yes. And RAW, you'd benefit from Doctrines until you play the strat.

If, hypothetically, you could play the Assassin Stratagem in Battleround 3, you'd have Doctrines up until that moment (battleround 1 and 2), and lose them as soon as you add a model without the Angels of Death special rule.

As the Assassin Stratagem is played during Deployment, it effectively negates Doctrine before they ever become relevant (unless there is some strat to start shooting during deployment before playing the Assassin stratagem).

Rule 1: "... units only benefit from this bonus if every unit in your army has this ability..."
Rule 2: "Add one Officio Assassinorum unit of your choice to your army."

Once Rule 2 has happened, the condition set by Rule 1 no longer applies.

Spoiler:

No you are wrong because reinforcement points and etc do not effect army rules. The game rules are NOT designed on a conditional passive state,
It's similar to how Chapter Master strat worked with a specilist detachment. You meet the condition for combat doctrines when you make your army.
once this is met, it no longer needs to be maintained. The stratagem for an assassin is past the timing window for the rules to even matter.
it is during deployment and has no bearing on the "army list" you just get a free assassin (or for RF points).
The other way is how Chaos Players rules break if you take daemon units but if you summon them with RF you don't care.
"they are treated as an external element."

Is the assasin part of your army

operative requisition sanctioned
Use this strategum during deployment.
Add One Offico Assassinorum unit of your choice to your army.

the strategum tells you it's part of your army.

if you have a battleforged army, units only benefit from this bonus if every unit from your army has this ability(excluding SERVITOR and UNALIGNED units).

Do assasins have combat doctrines NO
Are assasins UNALIGNED NO
Are they part of your army YES

So you now have a model that does not have the ability in your army .
Hence No body gets doctrines.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

Except they have only released one Chapter-neutral model so far. And a divisive one at that. Had they led off with the Impulsor or Eliminators, I would agree here.

where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

True, but in terms of models even GW themselves said were most clamored for, the Impulsor was at the top of the list for SM units (Dedicated Transport), as well as the Eliminators (dedicated anti-tank). They may have even used the word "finally".

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Phobosftw wrote:
yup, we`re looking at at least 2 weeks of waiting for the supplements we know are coming. maybe more.fething bs move by GW.

Or a good move, letting most bank accounts have a week to recover...

Except they have only released one Chapter-neutral model so far. And a divisive one at that. Had they led off with the Impulsor or Eliminators, I would agree here.

where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

True, but in terms of models even GW themselves said were most clamored for, the Impulsor was at the top of the list for SM units (Dedicated Transport), as well as the Eliminators (dedicated anti-tank). They may have even used the word "finally".

I can find posts bashing the impulsor. granted, like most of the primaris range it's the useal primaris are aweful and none of their units can possiably be good looking and any that are useful is clear proof oif GW's neferous plan to burn my old marine minis #tinfoilhat crap

I mean frankly I think the Impulsor looks GREAT, but I think looked at in person the repulsor tank also isn't as bad as some people claim and the gun placement is even.. sensable.

I mean you have your big turreted gun, a heavy bolter covering the front, and then the rear and sides each have a anti-infantry weapon. it's just.... 8th edition doesn't have firing arcs for tanks

Impulsor looks far better than the exterminator and repulsor. Mostly because it looks like an awesome concept both in real deployment and overall look.

I adore the model, except the Invictius makes me laugh.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Impulsor looks far better than the exterminator and repulsor. Mostly because it looks like an awesome concept both in real deployment and overall look.

I adore the model, except the Invictius makes me laugh.

yeah but 40k should have the odd "make you laugh" mini

 Asherian Command wrote:
Impulsor looks far better than the exterminator and repulsor. Mostly because it looks like an awesome concept both in real deployment and overall look.

I adore the model, except the Invictius makes me laugh.

To me the Invictus is a call back to the original STC that humanity would have had. Pre-Dark Ages. We would"t have much use for an armoured coffin carrier but a piloted Mech? Sure.

I see it more likely moving equipment than being used on the frontlines.

the codex also notes that it plugs into the marines armor and interacts with it so chances are the majority of the controls are being made by DNI, the controls we can see are proably just to control the stubbers or something

Now to wait on primaris assault squad. as the inceptors really don't fill the gap of melee.

Which is my only complaint so far... wheres my melee marines!

 Asherian Command wrote:
I see it more likely moving equipment than being used on the frontlines.

The main battle tank ofnthe Guard is based on a tractor isn't it?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I see it more likely moving equipment than being used on the frontlines.

The main battle tank ofnthe Guard is based on a tractor isn't it?

No. Never was that has been spread by id4chan.

If anything it might of been a retro tank back during the dark age of technology.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Now to wait on primaris assault squad. as the inceptors really don't fill the gap of melee.

Which is my only complaint so far... wheres my melee marines!

\

it si a little odd especially given that this new codex has pushed to make marines better and better at melee. right now even our basic primaris troops are alright at melee but having a amazing unit on hand to really push it to the next level'd be nice

A good start would be giving characters and other sergeants access to the Intercessors Sergeants weapon options.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
A good start would be giving characters and other sergeants access to the Intercessors Sergeants weapon options.

*sigh* That was the thing I wanted the most to happen in this new codex... I'm thankful of all the buffs, but still...

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
A good start would be giving characters and other sergeants access to the Intercessors Sergeants weapon options.

*sigh* That was the thing I wanted the most to happen in this new codex... I'm thankful of all the buffs, but still...

I emailed the FAQ team to (politely) ask for just that and honestly encourage others to do the same.

We have upgrade sprues, might as well let us use them on more stuff.

Primaris got lots of toys but they still remain boring when it comes to their kits.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Primaris got lots of toys but they still remain boring when it comes to their kits.

If by kits you mean individual weapon options for sergents and characters, then I agree.

So can a primaris captain be upgraded to Chapter Master now?

dogfender wrote:
So can a primaris captain be upgraded to Chapter Master now?

Looks like it, yes.

 warboss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

Did anyone complain about the new Abaddon? I don't recall seeing complaints about him on dakka but it's possible I missed some. And if chaos players can't find anything to complain about in a release then I suspect no one can...

*raises hand*

I did - he's far too big. For some reason they released the 3-up rather than the normal model, which would've been smaller than the old one, as nature intended.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Primaris got lots of toys but they still remain boring when it comes to their kits.

If by kits you mean individual weapon options for sergents and characters, then I agree.

Plus torso and legs all being on the same bit sprue which is still VERY annoying.

Plus weapon kits being very lack luster for primaris in general

Revilers using only knives is still the dumbest thing in 40k.

Chainswords please.

reivers using knives instead of chainswords makes sense if they're supposed to be stealthy I suppose but given they're terror troops they TOTALLY should have chainswords I agree. I can't think of much thats more terrifying then a chainsword dismemeberment.

BrianDavion wrote:
reivers using knives instead of chainswords makes sense if they're supposed to be stealthy I suppose but given they're terror troops they TOTALLY should have chainswords I agree. I can't think of much thats more terrifying then a chainsword dismemeberment.

Their helmets are equipped with vox AMPLIFIERS. They don't do quiet. They do loud. Like screaming at your enemy until they piss themselves type combat. Chainswords would definitely add into that.

I still think the following model is the coolest though. I might need to give that knife arm to a Reiver.

(I just had a FANTASTIC idea. I am going to use my extra Reivers to make even MORE Incursors!)

I mean they would look awesome reaper chainblades which have barbed hooks instead to absolutely terrify people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
reivers using knives instead of chainswords makes sense if they're supposed to be stealthy I suppose but given they're terror troops they TOTALLY should have chainswords I agree. I can't think of much thats more terrifying then a chainsword dismemeberment.

Their helmets are equipped with vox AMPLIFIERS. They don't do quiet. They do loud. Like screaming at your enemy until they piss themselves type combat. Chainswords would definitely add into that.

I still think the following model is the coolest though. I might need to give that knife arm to a Reiver.

(I just had a FANTASTIC idea. I am going to use my extra Reivers to make even MORE Incursors!)

thats what I am doing!

 Dysartes wrote:

 warboss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

Did anyone complain about the new Abaddon? I don't recall seeing complaints about him on dakka but it's possible I missed some. And if chaos players can't find anything to complain about in a release then I suspect no one can...

*raises hand*

I did - he's far too big. For some reason they released the 3-up rather than the normal model, which would've been smaller than the old one, as nature intended.

Abigail was always supposed to be pretty big though. Far too big isn't a valid complaint in the same vein as saying the current Primarch models are too big.

Yeah. Rumors of being a Horus Clone wouldn't make a ton of sense if he was incredibly smaller than him.

Danny76 wrote:
Where did they get their info though?
They said things like “probably going to be” and “this isn’t like one book, it’s like 8 books” but I didn’t hear mention of that being definitive, just the way people chat. But do they have insider knowledge for some reason?
(Also, the Codex and 6 supplements makes 7, so it would technically be one more supplement there..)

They have direct access to the playtesters of the entire release so...he also specifically stated they know because they have retail outlet info on upcoming products with no official release date.

A couple of things I noticed in the new Ultramarines Codex:

- The Chapter Champion is massively improved! 6" heroic interventions, always fights first, re-rolls to wound as well as to hit, an extra attack, and a master-crafted power sword instead of a standard one. It's also gone down in points. I think I'll be trying one out soon.

- The Terminus Ultra is mentioned in the fluff section of the book and there is even an illustration of it, but there is no datasheet. I was very surprised by this - looks like they thought about including it, then decided not to and forgot that the fluff was still there!

1) Is speculation (Sisters of Battle)
2) Is solved by the spirit of "let's talk to each other about what type of game we want to play and come to an agreement." So insert random player doesn't put his FW God List on the table in a casual pick up game. (FW Units)
3) Again is speculation, until an official statement from GW. (Index getting Squatted)

Slayer-Fan123

Your opinion doesn't count once you start your whole rambling about FW stuff being broken when it's decidedly not.

With the formatting you used who is the targeting...I never said FW is broken, however some people ARE salty about FW in games.
The person I am replying to for whatever reason. The response was talk to others in order to find out what types of games people want to play and come to an agreement.

dogfender wrote:
So can a primaris captain be upgraded to Chapter Master now?

That was already possible in the last codex. But yes, it is still possible.

 Dysartes wrote:

 warboss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


where 40k minis are concerned everything is "divisive" I've yet to see a mini get released that EVERYONE is behind. and certainly nothing space marine.

Did anyone complain about the new Abaddon? I don't recall seeing complaints about him on dakka but it's possible I missed some. And if chaos players can't find anything to complain about in a release then I suspect no one can...

*raises hand*

I did - he's far too big. For some reason they released the 3-up rather than the normal model, which would've been smaller than the old one, as nature intended.

-Nostalgia- They haven't used 3-ups in a long time, it's all CAD designed now :(

So next weeks releases includes a new Kill Team box, which is bewildering to me. Was hoping to see the third or fourth supplement.

We have the supplements, Infiltrator/Incursor box, the Phobos Lieutenant, Impulsor, and Eliminators still to come.

Plus whatever characters come with the supplements.

C'mon Shrike and Shadowborn!

So I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a rumor circulating in a French forum puts Black Templar seperate from the Imperial Fists and other supplements:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/269878-codex-space-marines/&do=findComment&comment=3383307

Apparently the source was correct about some infor regarding the Space Marine release so it may be trustworthy.

 Kanluwen wrote:
We have the supplements, Infiltrator/Incursor box, the Phobos Lieutenant, Impulsor, and Eliminators still to come.

Plus whatever characters come with the supplements.

C'mon Shrike and Shadowborn!

Plus Kardan Stronos, and an iron hands character...

Also maybe a new crimson fist character?

Maybe anything new?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a rumor circulating in a French forum puts Black Templar seperate from the Imperial Fists and other supplements:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/269878-codex-space-marines/&do=findComment&comment=3383307

Apparently the source was correct about some infor regarding the Space Marine release so it may be trustworthy.

I could see it, Black Templars are so divergant from the Imperial fists that combining them would mean two sourcebooks in one. even Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists will be a fair bit of stuff, although I expect they'll share a librarius disipline and strats. Black Templars however are orginized radically differantly, and will have a fair number of datasheets unique to them,.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a rumor circulating in a French forum puts Black Templar seperate from the Imperial Fists and other supplements:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/269878-codex-space-marines/&do=findComment&comment=3383307

Apparently the source was correct about some infor regarding the Space Marine release so it may be trustworthy.

I could see it, Black Templars are so divergant from the Imperial fists that combining them would mean two sourcebooks in one. even Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists will be a fair bit of stuff, although I expect they'll share a librarius disipline and strats. Black Templars however are orginized radically differantly, and will have a fair number of datasheets unique to them,.

It would just mean a book with about 10 entries and three sets of relics and warlord traits, maybe an extra page of stratagems. Closer to ultramarine supplement with all the characters and couple units than white scars with the mere 2 character datasheets.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a rumor circulating in a French forum puts Black Templar seperate from the Imperial Fists and other supplements:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/269878-codex-space-marines/&do=findComment&comment=3383307

Apparently the source was correct about some infor regarding the Space Marine release so it may be trustworthy.

I could see it, Black Templars are so divergant from the Imperial fists that combining them would mean two sourcebooks in one. even Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists will be a fair bit of stuff, although I expect they'll share a librarius disipline and strats. Black Templars however are orginized radically differantly, and will have a fair number of datasheets unique to them,.

It would just mean a book with about 10 entries and three sets of relics and warlord traits, maybe an extra page of stratagems. Closer to ultramarine supplement with all the characters and couple units than white scars with the mere 2 character datasheets.

remember though that the other supplements also gave a company by company breakdown of the chapter. so assuming a combined IF book comes out we're looking at a chompany by company breakdown of 2 chapters and a break down of "prominant black templar crusades"

BrianDavion wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a rumor circulating in a French forum puts Black Templar seperate from the Imperial Fists and other supplements:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/269878-codex-space-marines/&do=findComment&comment=3383307

Apparently the source was correct about some infor regarding the Space Marine release so it may be trustworthy.

I could see it, Black Templars are so divergant from the Imperial fists that combining them would mean two sourcebooks in one. even Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists will be a fair bit of stuff, although I expect they'll share a librarius disipline and strats. Black Templars however are orginized radically differantly, and will have a fair number of datasheets unique to them,.

It would just mean a book with about 10 entries and three sets of relics and warlord traits, maybe an extra page of stratagems. Closer to ultramarine supplement with all the characters and couple units than white scars with the mere 2 character datasheets.

remember though that the other supplements also gave a company by company breakdown of the chapter. so assuming a combined IF book comes out we're looking at a chompany by company breakdown of 2 chapters and a break down of "prominant black templar crusades"

Books are typically blocks of 16 pages, so 10 pages of crimson fists and 6 major crusades would work. And white scars is 64 pages while ultramarines is 80. Unless there are new primaris characters, the total you its would be lysander, pedro, helbrect, grimaldus, crusader squad, emperors champion, cenobyte servitors. 7 datasheets and 6 fluff entries. Say 2 pages for 3 sets of warlord traits and a psychic powers set. Maybe some vows for the templars. Page of imperial fist relic, page of crimson fist relics, page of templar relics, page of special issue relics.

I would be fine with Black Templars getting their own supplement. If nothing else, it will make the "We used to have our own codex" people pipe down. Honestly though, I could see them getting something that boosts Litanies of Faith somehow. Or maybe the ability for a Captain to gain a Litany.

Otherwise, moving them out of the Imperial Fists supplement gives the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists more room for stuff. And really, Black Templars wouldn't really use much of the same Stratagems as the Fists in the first place. Then again, a lot of the Stratagems between the Ultramarines and White Scars books were the same thing, different names.

I guess my question is if the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists will have a different Doctrine ability. Who knows. I just want my Primaris Pedro Kantor and some decent rules.

 bullyboy wrote:
So next weeks releases includes a new Kill Team box, which is bewildering to me. Was hoping to see the third or fourth supplement.

I reckon they're taking a week off so that either a, the wallets of SM players get a week to recover; b, it doesn't look like an entire month or six week period dedicated to just SM releases; or c, they're trying to keep a week per month available for "minor game" releases, without a big "main game" release detracting from them.

If Black Templars do get a separate supplement, then you can nearly 100% guarantee that it won't be in this initial round of 6 books. And, if that is the case, then GW would have already added the BT special units into the FAQ as datasheets.

They will likely have their own set of stuff inside the Fists supplement, but, the chances of them getting their own BT only book this year, or next, is pretty slim.

Kdash wrote:
If Black Templars do get a separate supplement, then you can nearly 100% guarantee that it won't be in this initial round of 6 books. And, if that is the case, then GW would have already added the BT special units into the FAQ as datasheets.

They will likely have their own set of stuff inside the Fists supplement, but, the chances of them getting their own BT only book this year, or next, is pretty slim.

Do you mean these datasheets from the character FAQ? https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_character_datasheets_en.pdf

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Kdash wrote:
If Black Templars do get a separate supplement, then you can nearly 100% guarantee that it won't be in this initial round of 6 books. And, if that is the case, then GW would have already added the BT special units into the FAQ as datasheets.

They will likely have their own set of stuff inside the Fists supplement, but, the chances of them getting their own BT only book this year, or next, is pretty slim.

Do you mean these datasheets from the character FAQ? https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_character_datasheets_en.pdf

Somehow missed them… And i’m not sure why I forgot about the characters already being in the faq when they will also be in the supplements, so my additional reasoning is completely random lol!

I’m still of the firm belief that they won’t be part of the 6 initial supplements as a stand alone supplement though.

Primaris Grimaldus and Helbrecht would be a reason for me to finally start a Templars army.

Kdash wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Kdash wrote:
If Black Templars do get a separate supplement, then you can nearly 100% guarantee that it won't be in this initial round of 6 books. And, if that is the case, then GW would have already added the BT special units into the FAQ as datasheets.

They will likely have their own set of stuff inside the Fists supplement, but, the chances of them getting their own BT only book this year, or next, is pretty slim.

Do you mean these datasheets from the character FAQ? https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_character_datasheets_en.pdf

Somehow missed them… And i’m not sure why I forgot about the characters already being in the faq when they will also be in the supplements, so my additional reasoning is completely random lol!

I’m still of the firm belief that they won’t be part of the 6 initial supplements as a stand alone supplement though.

Those are the codex 1.0 datasheets with angles of death added only. I suspect the actual 2.0 datasheets are being held back untill the supplements. They only released these as the 1.0 codex datasheets dont have angles of death.

Ice_can wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Kdash wrote:
If Black Templars do get a separate supplement, then you can nearly 100% guarantee that it won't be in this initial round of 6 books. And, if that is the case, then GW would have already added the BT special units into the FAQ as datasheets.

They will likely have their own set of stuff inside the Fists supplement, but, the chances of them getting their own BT only book this year, or next, is pretty slim.

Do you mean these datasheets from the character FAQ? https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_character_datasheets_en.pdf

Somehow missed them… And i’m not sure why I forgot about the characters already being in the faq when they will also be in the supplements, so my additional reasoning is completely random lol!

I’m still of the firm belief that they won’t be part of the 6 initial supplements as a stand alone supplement though.

Those are the codex 1.0 datasheets with angles of death added only. I suspect the actual 2.0 datasheets are being held back untill the supplements. They only released these as the 1.0 codex datasheets dont have angles of death.

yeah those are a bare minimum effort C&P sheet

Coldfyre at B&C caught this bit in the fluff of the Ultramarines Supplement:



Another likely upcoming Primaris unit called the Hellfury. From the progression shown it looks to be fire support infantry squad, possibly in Gravis armour.

 Redemption wrote:
Coldfyre at B&C caught this bit in the fluff of the Ultramarines Supplement:



Another likely upcoming Primaris unit called the Hellfury. From the progression shown it looks to be fire support infantry squad, possibly in Gravis armour.

A lot of theory crafting seems to be melta or flamer based, though I have seen some mention a desire for Volkite.

Volkite would be an intreasting way to really dial up the heresy era feel of primaris. if I was going to take a guess the Hellfury is going to be a gravis heavy platform, Maybe the Lascanon/Missle centurion to the Agressors heavy bolter/Hurrican bolter Centurion. twin Plasma canons and a cyclone missile launcher maybe? (dear lord that'd be expensive but brutal)

At some point one of these rumour/news sites is going to actually read the new marine codex and realise you can tell what the supplements are by reading the warhead section.....

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
At some point one of these rumour/news sites is going to actually read the new marine codex and realise you can tell what the supplements are by reading the warhead section.....

Warhead section?

 Redemption wrote:
Coldfyre at B&C caught this bit in the fluff of the Ultramarines Supplement:



Another likely upcoming Primaris unit called the Hellfury. From the progression shown it looks to be fire support infantry squad, possibly in Gravis armour.

Be it that there are no references to the Suppressors in that passage, I am inclined to believe Hellfury was an early name for the Suppressor.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Be it that there are no references to the Suppressors in that passage, I am inclined to believe Hellfury was an early name for the Suppressor.

I'm not. The naming pattern wouldn't make sense.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Coldfyre at B&C caught this bit in the fluff of the Ultramarines Supplement:



Another likely upcoming Primaris unit called the Hellfury. From the progression shown it looks to be fire support infantry squad, possibly in Gravis armour.

Be it that there are no references to the Suppressors in that passage, I am inclined to believe Hellfury was an early name for the Suppressor.

Suppressors are likley part of the 8th Company instead of the 9th since, you know, jump pack.

Unlikely, Suppressors are more of a fast attack option than heavy support. Hellfury sounds like a minigun.

Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

But supressors are a fast attack option? Like Inceptors?

I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?

 Asherian Command wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

But supressors are a fast attack option? Like Inceptors?

which has no bearing on what company the units belong to.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?

I thought they were a phobos armor?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?

yes they did. It is in the Fire Support section.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I forgot the Fire Support Badge.

So 9th, or Battle Company then.

Did Suppressors even get a.lore entry in the codex?

I thought they were a phobos armor?

no they are not they are an omnis armor. And again it makes no difference. Inceptors and Aggressors are both in gravis armor but one is close support the other one is fire support. Incursors are Close Support but are Troops.

thats strange, wonder why they put them in the fast attack option? Because they have always have the role they occupy be what they are in the space marine chapter.

Not that Aggressors being fire support makes much sense. They're guys with with power fists and short ranged guns or flamers. How are they conceptually different than Assault Centurions which are close support?

 Asherian Command wrote:
thats strange, wonder why they put them in the fast attack option? Because they have always have the role they occupy be what they are in the space marine chapter.

That's how it used to be, but things changed as early as the last codex. Aggressors are Fire Support, not Veterans, but are in Elites. Reivers are Close Support, not Veterans, but are also in Elites. Now we have Incursors in Troops, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support. Suppressors are in Fast Attack, not Heavy Support, despite being Fire Support. And Eliminators are Heavy Support, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support.

Really, the only units in Primaris that are in their typical Unit Type and Company are the Intercessors, Infiltrators, Inceptors, and Hellblasters. The rest are a mess.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
thats strange, wonder why they put them in the fast attack option? Because they have always have the role they occupy be what they are in the space marine chapter.

That's how it used to be, but things changed as early as the last codex. Aggressors are Fire Support, not Veterans, but are in Elites. Reivers are Close Support, not Veterans, but are also in Elites. Now we have Incursors in Troops, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support. Suppressors are in Fast Attack, not Heavy Support, despite being Fire Support. And Eliminators are Heavy Support, not Fast Attack, despite being Close Support.

Really, the only units in Primaris that are in their typical Unit Type and Company are the Intercessors, Infiltrators, Inceptors, and Hellblasters. The rest are a mess.

To make it fun, the Reivers, who are in an Elite slot usually saved for -Veterans- tend to be made of Astartes fresh out of Vanguard training.

Reivets definitely should be fast attack.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

They're ostensibly part of the Vanguard, which means 10th Company.

TLDR version:
There's always, on paper, 100 Vanguard Marines as part of the 10th. Neophytes/Scouts don't count towards it anymore.
Vanguard includes:
Suppressors(Fire Support/Fast Attack)
Infiltrators(Battleline/Troops)
Incursors(Close Support/Troops)
Eliminators(Fire Support/Heavy Support)
Reivers(Close Support/Elites)
Invictors(Fire Support/Elites)

but
Any of the other 9 Companies can also field Marines that are effectively acting as Vanguard, it just requires them to choose to do so.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors wear the fire support badge which puts them in the 9th company not 8th.

They're ostensibly part of the Vanguard, which means 10th Company.

TLDR version:
There's always, on paper, 100 Vanguard Marines as part of the 10th. Neophytes/Scouts don't count towards it anymore.
Vanguard includes:
Suppressors(Fire Support/Fast Attack)
Infiltrators(Battleline/Troops)
Incursors(Close Support/Troops)
Eliminators(Fire Support/Heavy Support)
Reivers(Close Support/Elites)
Invictors(Fire Support/Elites)

but
Any of the other 9 Companies can also field Marines that are effectively acting as Vanguard, it just requires them to choose to do so.

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.

Hellfury sounds like a fancy title for a Hellblaster Sgt to me

-

 Galef wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.

Hellfury sounds like a fancy title for a Hellblaster Sgt to me

-

Really sounds like a machine gun to me

Actually...it sounds like when my wife gets upset at me...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:

The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.

The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.

...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:

The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.

The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.

...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.

The 10th company is a bit confusing now, but okay.

I've got a bit of a theory regarding Primaris vehicles though, after the blurb about the Executioner being inspired by the Razorback: The Repulsor is the Rhino Equiv, the Executioner is a Razorback equiv, and the Impulsor is actually a Landspeeder Storm equiv.

Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.

Sterling191 wrote:
Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.

Driving, not riding in.

Apparently the seatbelts up front work but not the ones in the back.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Driving, not riding in.

Apparently the seatbelts up front work but not the ones in the back.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.

Thats The Joke.gif

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Driving, not riding in.

Apparently the seatbelts up front work but not the ones in the back.

No wonder no Primaris can fit in the back, that's where the Primaris drivers sit!

except not in mastodons or land raiders... Ugh primaris rules are so stupid.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:

The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.

The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.

...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.

The 10th company is a bit confusing now, but okay.

I've got a bit of a theory regarding Primaris vehicles though, after the blurb about the Executioner being inspired by the Razorback: The Repulsor is the Rhino Equiv, the Executioner is a Razorback equiv, and the Impulsor is actually a Landspeeder Storm equiv.

It really makes me wonder why GW hasn't just done away with the previously established Chapter size and composition. In lore Roboute admits the Codex Astartes was flawed and has since made changes. It would make far more sense for Roboute to say "Chapters should be 11 or 12 companies, and here are the 1 or 2 companies of primaris to fill out those ranks" or even if he said "Scouts/Neophytes they don't count towards your 1000"... rather than to try to shoe horn Primaris into random places through out the Chapters. With Guillimans in lore reforms where he introduced the Primaris into the Astartes ranks, it would make sense if he made other changes besides "take these Primaris". There are also practical reasons too... in lore the attrition rate for producing Primaris is suppose to be 10 times higher... you'd need more than just 1 company of scouts or neophytes to maintain a chapter now... in fact you'd need just about as many neophytes to maintain one company of Primaris as you would to maintain the rest of the chapter.

Primaris sound great on paper but if you think about it if a marine chapter is already struggling to maintain their ranks, giving them a more demanding to produce Marine or expecting them to maintain their ranks with them would tax a chapter's resources. With the stated attrition rate, every time you stand up a company of Primaris you could have instead created a whole new chapter. Do chapter's have that kind of surplus resources and man power? What's more worthwhile Primaris or double the number of Chapters?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

 Elbows wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Hold the phone. Primaris boys in a Rhino? What heresy is this.

Silver Templars (a pure Primaris army) have Land Raiders, so it's likely a thing we'll see on the table eventually.

I wouldn't hold your breath...

Considering it is the gw rules team.
Which had whole armies not beeing able to even access their transports
I am with Elbows on this one

 aka_mythos wrote:
Primaris sound great on paper but if you think about it if a marine chapter is already struggling to maintain their ranks, giving them a more demanding to produce Marine or expecting them to maintain their ranks with them would tax a chapter's resources. With the stated attrition rate, every time you stand up a company of Primaris you could have instead created a whole new chapter. Do chapter's have that kind of surplus resources and man power? What's more worthwhile Primaris or double the number of Chapters?

Even if the attrition rate was true, humans are cheap. Adding a few more dead aspirants hardly changes anything (especially seeing hilariously dumb and wasteful practices of some chapters, like say Space Wolves). What is not cheap is all the power armour, bolters (and ammunition), plasma guns, tanks, dreads, etc, etc - from this perspective it makes far more sense to put limited resources into arming far better warrior, not to spam extra marines and then give them glorified guard gear, especially seeing then you have much bigger chance of geneseed being lost outright or diluted/degenerated in the increased production.

Funnily enough, that is one of the few things Phil Kelly got right recently - just look up (or better, don't) his Tau books, they are hilariously dumb and fluff-wrecking, but they do manage to show difference between squatmarine and primaris. Tau have no idea what to expect from them, tactics and weapons good against SM previously fail, primaris being more of a soldiers than chainsword waving madmen counter Tau attempts at feints and ambushes with ease, all in all, a company of primaris kills more Tau in the space of a single book than two entire battleforces of squatmarines managed in previous three (though to be fair, a lot of it was Kelly being stupid and writing SM like ogryns)...

It’s not that humans are cheap, it’s that progenoid glands are very much not. You get two per marine, they take ten years to mature, and if you lose them both that’s a marine you can’t replace until the next batch matures. Losing a neophyte halfway through implantation or training means losing both progenoids by default.
That said, only chapters with significant defects or stupid-high mutation rates seem to have issue with making their tithes to the Adeptus Mechanicus gene-banks. And unlike planetary governors they’re entitled to withhold that if it endangers the integrity of the chapter. Just expect an inquisitor to show up asking awkward questions if it’s withheld too long…

 Mr_Rose wrote:
It’s not that humans are cheap, it’s that progenoid glands are very much not. You get two per marine, they take ten years to mature, and if you lose them both that’s a marine you can’t replace until the next batch matures. Losing a neophyte halfway through implantation or training means losing both progenoids by default.
That said, only chapters with significant defects or stupid-high mutation rates seem to have issue with making their tithes to the Adeptus Mechanicus gene-banks. And unlike planetary governors they’re entitled to withhold that if it endangers the integrity of the chapter. Just expect an inquisitor to show up asking awkward questions if it’s withheld too long…

Eh, I always had a problem with the progenoids in aspirants. If they weren't recoverable or duplicable somehow (say, by old fluff of growing extra ones in chained slaves) chapters like Space Wolves or Flesh Tearers would cease to exist after a decade. They often lose more than two aspirants per every marine that actually manages to get into black carapace stage, the numbers simply don't add up.

Even your withholding example shows this - Huron managed to produce 3500 marines out of what, a decade or two of withheld geneseed? There must be a way to accelerate production of genetic stock somehow, or Badab War would be a Badab weekend skirmish...

 Irbis wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
Primaris sound great on paper but if you think about it if a marine chapter is already struggling to maintain their ranks, giving them a more demanding to produce Marine or expecting them to maintain their ranks with them would tax a chapter's resources. With the stated attrition rate, every time you stand up a company of Primaris you could have instead created a whole new chapter. Do chapter's have that kind of surplus resources and man power? What's more worthwhile Primaris or double the number of Chapters?

Even if the attrition rate was true, humans are cheap. Adding a few more dead aspirants hardly changes anything (especially seeing hilariously dumb and wasteful practices of some chapters, like say Space Wolves). What is not cheap is all the power armour, bolters (and ammunition), plasma guns, tanks, dreads, etc, etc - from this perspective it makes far more sense to put limited resources into arming far better warrior, not to spam extra marines and then give them glorified guard gear, especially seeing then you have much bigger chance of geneseed being lost outright or diluted/degenerated in the increased production.

Funnily enough, that is one of the few things Phil Kelly got right recently - just look up (or better, don't) his Tau books, they are hilariously dumb and fluff-wrecking, but they do manage to show difference between squatmarine and primaris. Tau have no idea what to expect from them, tactics and weapons good against SM previously fail, primaris being more of a soldiers than chainsword waving madmen counter Tau attempts at feints and ambushes with ease, all in all, a company of primaris kills more Tau in the space of a single book than two entire battleforces of squatmarines managed in previous three (though to be fair, a lot of it was Kelly being stupid and writing SM like ogryns)...

I read Dark Imperium and the Primaris in that book were nothing but glorified giant guardsmen. I dislike when 40k writers talk about "tactics and strategy" and then just have their super soldiers stand there in the open and shoot until they win. I haven't read the Phil Kelly books (sorry you did lol) but I can only assume the Primaris's unpredictable tactics and strategy mostly amounts to having mountains of plot armor and an opponent who learned military tactics from the inside of a blank cardboard box.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Coldfyre at B&C caught this bit in the fluff of the Ultramarines Supplement:



Another likely upcoming Primaris unit called the Hellfury. From the progression shown it looks to be fire support infantry squad, possibly in Gravis armour.

A lot of theory crafting seems to be melta or flamer based, though I have seen some mention a desire for Volkite.

Nah Man Pichu wrote:Hellfury to me sounds like an extension conceptually for Hellblasters. So maybe Primaris Devastator equivalents? Regular Mk X armor with heavy weapons? Would probably pair nicely with the Impulsor.

I thought there was a fluff bit the SM codex 1.0 about Salamander Hellblasters armed with flamers. I can’t find it right now and I have to go to work, but I’ll try to look for it tomorrow.

that was agressors

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I read Dark Imperium and the Primaris in that book were nothing but glorified giant guardsmen. I dislike when 40k writers talk about "tactics and strategy" and then just have their super soldiers stand there in the open and shoot until they win. I haven't read the Phil Kelly books (sorry you did lol) but I can only assume the Primaris's unpredictable tactics and strategy mostly amounts to having mountains of plot armor and an opponent who learned military tactics from the inside of a blank cardboard box.

You don't want to know

wow and I thought war of secrets was bad

 Irbis wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I read Dark Imperium and the Primaris in that book were nothing but glorified giant guardsmen. I dislike when 40k writers talk about "tactics and strategy" and then just have their super soldiers stand there in the open and shoot until they win. I haven't read the Phil Kelly books (sorry you did lol) but I can only assume the Primaris's unpredictable tactics and strategy mostly amounts to having mountains of plot armor and an opponent who learned military tactics from the inside of a blank cardboard box.

You don't want to know

Spoiler:

The writing is so bad that in not one, but two books Tau combatants are being shown mercy (!!!) by space marines and one of the protagonists survives only because marine has no idea how to kill a wounded Tau without using his gun (despite PK describing killing enemies with fists and kicks a few chapters back). Oh, and a sidekick psychic inquisitor apparently has no idea what a daemon is and can hide full size SM combi-grav gun down tight pants. No, this is not a joke.

Those books were pretty bad.

I hate war of secrets because of how the protrayed both the dark angels and the primaris. They are so childish. I hate those books that show primaris marines as complete and utter foolish children.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breaking it downt hat way does seem to make it make more sense. The 10th basically is a sort of battle company of new recruits then with Reivers being the veterans of those recruits.

Yes...and no.

Per p19:

The Chapter's 10th Company is its Scout Company. The majority of its members are neophytes--those whose combat training, physical transformation and cultural initiation is still incomplete--but the company also contains a standing force of ten Vanguard Space Marine squads. These warriors can be called upon to conduct a variety of stealth operations behind enemy lines. The Codex Astartes dictates no formal size for a Scout Company as the rate of recruitment is not fixed, meaning that some Chapters will be able to field comparatively large 10th Company formations while others must husband their limited resources carefully.

The only set thing we have is the ten Vanguard Space Marine Squads...which are mentioned as distinct from the neophytes/recruits. There's a popout on top of p19 that suggests that once the Neophytes/Recruits undergo the Primaris treatments, they then are assigned to the Vanguard Squads to take all the different roles on--but it seems that Reivers might be the start of the path if you go by page 14-15. Gaius Pollandus, after his body had accepted his gene-seed and all of his organs, he joined Reiver Squad Agamnus. From there, he later got assigned to an Infiltrator Squad and advanced to the 9th to join an Eliminator Squad.

Highly suggest reading p14-15 though.

There's also a mention on p18 that talks about the Battle Companies and how squads break up if they're not being broken up by 5s.

...for example, were six battle-brothers to take to the field as Aggressors, the remaining four warriors of their squad might find roles piloting Invictor Warsuits, driving the strike force's Rhino APCs and the like.

The 10th company is a bit confusing now, but okay.

I've got a bit of a theory regarding Primaris vehicles though, after the blurb about the Executioner being inspired by the Razorback: The Repulsor is the Rhino Equiv, the Executioner is a Razorback equiv, and the Impulsor is actually a Landspeeder Storm equiv.

It really makes me wonder why GW hasn't just done away with the previously established Chapter size and composition. In lore Roboute admits the Codex Astartes was flawed and has since made changes. It would make far more sense for Roboute to say "Chapters should be 11 or 12 companies, and here are the 1 or 2 companies of primaris to fill out those ranks" or even if he said "Scouts/Neophytes they don't count towards your 1000"... rather than to try to shoe horn Primaris into random places through out the Chapters. With Guillimans in lore reforms where he introduced the Primaris into the Astartes ranks, it would make sense if he made other changes besides "take these Primaris". There are also practical reasons too... in lore the attrition rate for producing Primaris is suppose to be 10 times higher... you'd need more than just 1 company of scouts or neophytes to maintain a chapter now... in fact you'd need just about as many neophytes to maintain one company of Primaris as you would to maintain the rest of the chapter.

Primaris sound great on paper but if you think about it if a marine chapter is already struggling to maintain their ranks, giving them a more demanding to produce Marine or expecting them to maintain their ranks with them would tax a chapter's resources. With the stated attrition rate, every time you stand up a company of Primaris you could have instead created a whole new chapter. Do chapter's have that kind of surplus resources and man power? What's more worthwhile Primaris or double the number of Chapters?

Well, the thing is, Scouts already didn't count towards the 1000 marine limit. Every instance I can recall said that there was no set number of Scout Squads, as they are recruits in training. The idea there being that a good applicant doesn't get frozen out because the scouts are full.

That said, right now the idea is "phasing out." Every time an Assault Marine dies, he is replaced by an Inceptor or Reiver. Every time a Devastator dies, he is replaced by a Hellblaster, Suppressor or Eliminator. Every time a Tactical Marine dies, he is replaced by an Intercessor. Maybe not within the same squad. But say, 15 Tactical Marines die in a battle company, across 9 in one squad, 6 in the other. One from the 6 might move over and make a new full squad of 10, while the 5 remain their own squad, and a new, 5 man squad of Intercessors from the Reserve companies joins the battle company. As more of the Tactical Marines perish, the remaining 5 move into the 10, and more Intercessors join the 5-man squad until its up to 10. As the 10-man Tacts die off, more Intercessors move up to replace them.

 Deadshot wrote:

That said, right now the idea is "phasing out." Every time an Assault Marine dies, he is replaced by an Inceptor or Reiver. Every time a Devastator dies, he is replaced by a Hellblaster, Suppressor or Eliminator. Every time a Tactical Marine dies, he is replaced by an Intercessor. Maybe not within the same squad. But say, 15 Tactical Marines die in a battle company, across 9 in one squad, 6 in the other. One from the 6 might move over and make a new full squad of 10, while the 5 remain their own squad, and a new, 5 man squad of Intercessors from the Reserve companies joins the battle company. As more of the Tactical Marines perish, the remaining 5 move into the 10, and more Intercessors join the 5-man squad until its up to 10. As the 10-man Tacts die off, more Intercessors move up to replace them.

That's not what is happening. Many chapters are still making standard marines alongside primaris marines.

I imagine it'll depend from chapter to chapter, so The Emperor's Hawks spaceMarine chapter may be going full Primaris and thus phasing them out, however the Imperial Hawks chapter may have supply issues with getting Primaris equipment and thus only be able to maintain 200 suits of the Mark X armor, and 5 repulsor tanks, and thus chooses to maintain a force of 200 primaris, (100 of which is the vanguard) and thus only the most promising canidates are selected for Primaris treatments

So hey, have Space Marines gotten anything to allow them to shoot twice or fight twice, excepting Aggressors?

Nurglitch wrote:
So hey, have Space Marines gotten anything to allow them to shoot twice or fight twice, excepting Aggressors?

SM have the same stratagem as before, Honour the Chapter, that lets them fight again.

WHIRLWIND and THUNDERFIRE CANNON can shoot out of LOS twice via Stratagem.

A CHARACTER can shoot when they get killed via Stratagem.

Steady Advance stratagem also allows infantry who moved to get Bolter Discipline.

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine it'll depend from chapter to chapter, so The Emperor's Hawks spaceMarine chapter may be going full Primaris and thus phasing them out, however the Imperial Hawks chapter may have supply issues with getting Primaris equipment and thus only be able to maintain 200 suits of the Mark X armor, and 5 repulsor tanks, and thus chooses to maintain a force of 200 primaris, (100 of which is the vanguard) and thus only the most promising canidates are selected for Primaris treatments

The codex fluff section covers some of it, but I suspect that the reality is it's just GW adjusting the business strategy to the market reality not be quite inline with what the marketing department though people would accept.

Ice_can wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine it'll depend from chapter to chapter, so The Emperor's Hawks spaceMarine chapter may be going full Primaris and thus phasing them out, however the Imperial Hawks chapter may have supply issues with getting Primaris equipment and thus only be able to maintain 200 suits of the Mark X armor, and 5 repulsor tanks, and thus chooses to maintain a force of 200 primaris, (100 of which is the vanguard) and thus only the most promising canidates are selected for Primaris treatments

The codex fluff section covers some of it, but I suspect that the reality is it's just GW adjusting the business strategy to the market reality not be quite inline with what the marketing department though people would accept.

ohh look another unsubstantiated "primaris are failing" line. I think it's just as likely both primaris and old marines are selling well and GW has no incentive to ditch the old marine line if people wanna buy em

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine it'll depend from chapter to chapter, so The Emperor's Hawks spaceMarine chapter may be going full Primaris and thus phasing them out, however the Imperial Hawks chapter may have supply issues with getting Primaris equipment and thus only be able to maintain 200 suits of the Mark X armor, and 5 repulsor tanks, and thus chooses to maintain a force of 200 primaris, (100 of which is the vanguard) and thus only the most promising canidates are selected for Primaris treatments

The codex fluff section covers some of it, but I suspect that the reality is it's just GW adjusting the business strategy to the market reality not be quite inline with what the marketing department though people would accept.

ohh look another unsubstantiated "primaris are failing" line. I think it's just as likely both primaris and old marines are selling well and GW has no incentive to ditch the old marine line if people wanna buy em

That's a rather massive leap from what I said to primaris are failing,
I'm told GW has been compairing Primaris sales against Stormcast sales, which I dont believe was ever a realistic measure.

They seem to have missed that AoS and 40K aren't realy that great benchmarks for each other, it feels like everyone second person who plays AoS has some stormcasts, which didn't exsist untill how long ago, while adding models to an already large line was never going to generate those kinds of sales numbers.

Having the difference between Marines and Primaris Marines be the difference between warriors and soldiers could be interesting, and parallels the difference between Thunder Warriors and Marines. There have been some lore lines that make me think ‘Did GW hype these up only to have them fail in universe?’ I suppose they aren’t reckless enough for that.

they won't fail but it's clear tyhat Primaris marines aren't flawless

Ice_can wrote:
the reality is it's just GW adjusting the business strategy to the market reality not be quite inline with what the marketing department though people would accept.

I can see why the original SM codex gave people on here the impression that Primaris would be replacing regular marines, but I think with this new codex it's clear that isn't the case for the core units. The marketing strategy seems more consistent now - chapter supplements including rules for named characters being re-released as Primaris models, and also new Primaris units for different battlefield roles. It will be interesting to see if GW also handle those with a supplement now. I suppose the other option is to make a free PDF available (like they did with the Chaos Space Marine codex and Daemonkin datasheets), but somehow that doesn't seem very 'GW' - they generally like you to pay for rules as well as models. Having said that, I can't see even Primaris players being happy to buy the core codex for a third time, so I'm assuming it will be a supplement.

Reading the copes of marine players reminds me of one of those "mind of a psychopath" type shows.

JSG wrote:
Reading the copes of marine players reminds me of one of those "mind of a psychopath" type shows.

That is an awfully dramatic post.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

JSG wrote:
Reading the copes of marine players reminds me of one of those "mind of a psychopath" type shows.

That is an awfully dramatic post.

Just wait until the manlet range goes last chance to buy in a few years.

JSG wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

JSG wrote:
Reading the copes of marine players reminds me of one of those "mind of a psychopath" type shows.

That is an awfully dramatic post.

Just wait until the manlet range goes last chance to buy in a few years.

I smell a troll

BrianDavion wrote:

JSG wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

JSG wrote:
Reading the copes of marine players reminds me of one of those "mind of a psychopath" type shows.

That is an awfully dramatic post.

Just wait until the manlet range goes last chance to buy in a few years.

I smell a troll

No, your right. I'm sure they'll find space in store for the tactical squad next to the RTB01 beakies.

Thats bait

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
So hey, have Space Marines gotten anything to allow them to shoot twice or fight twice, excepting Aggressors?

SM have the same stratagem as before, Honour the Chapter, that lets them fight again.

WHIRLWIND and THUNDERFIRE CANNON can shoot out of LOS twice via Stratagem.

A CHARACTER can shoot when they get killed via Stratagem.

Okay, cool. Thank you.

For successors, if I am say a Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor, do I have to use their particular tactics?

Or can I make them using the regular 'pick 2' successor trait rules?

 ph34r wrote:
For successors, if I am say a Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor, do I have to use their particular tactics?

Or can I make them using the regular 'pick 2' successor trait rules?

You have to use the DA or BA rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
For successors, if I am say a Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor, do I have to use their particular tactics?

Or can I make them using the regular 'pick 2' successor trait rules?

You have to use the DA or BA rules.

Incorrect, he can do whatever he wants with his models. The plastic models do not have an inherent codex they must be used for. You can use your models one day using Codex: Space Marines and another day using Codex: Blood Angels. Just use the right rules, how a model is painted is irrelevant. That’s the most bizarre part of 8th edition, the constant questions over if you’re allowed to use YOUR models in a way you want.

 Kirasu wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
For successors, if I am say a Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor, do I have to use their particular tactics?

Or can I make them using the regular 'pick 2' successor trait rules?

You have to use the DA or BA rules.

Incorrect, he can do whatever he wants with his models. The plastic models do not have an inherent codex they must be used for. You can use your models one day using Codex: Space Marines and another day using Codex: Blood Angels. Just use the right rules, how a model is painted is irrelevant. That’s the most bizarre part of 8th edition, the constant questions over if you’re allowed to use YOUR models in a way you want.

That’s flat out not what was asked. DA/BA/SW/DW are not compatible with the custom chapter traits.

Then we’re reading different English.

The statement of “or can I make them using regular pick 2 successor traits rules” denotes a CHOICE between Blood Angel rules or Codex: Space Marines.

Yes, he has a choice to use Codex: SM instead of BA.

 Kirasu wrote:
Then we’re reading different English.

The statement of “or can I make them using regular pick 2 successor traits rules” denotes a CHOICE between Blood Angel rules or Codex: Space Marines.

Yes, he has a choice to use Codex: SM instead of BA.

Not if he wants to run any non Codex-Sm units. Try to run say, Ravenwing or Wolf Guard or Death Company with custom chapter Tactics and you’re playing an illegal army.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Then we’re reading different English.

The statement of “or can I make them using regular pick 2 successor traits rules” denotes a CHOICE between Blood Angel rules or Codex: Space Marines.

Yes, he has a choice to use Codex: SM instead of BA.

Not if he wants to run any non Codex-Sm units. Try to run say, Ravenwing or Wolf Guard or Death Company with custom chapter Tactics and you’re playing an illegal army.

Sure, I’ll agree with you on that but I was assuming he understood basic rules of creating armies. Just like how you can’t use your Iron Hands successor with ultramarine characters. You can however change any of those models to use a different armies rules as you see fit from game to game, that was my point.

Good thing this is all totally not a bit clumsy. I bet it never occured to anybody in the rules team because, you know, they talked about their intention for the rules and had a common understanding what they were supposed to do. Too bad not everyone is working at GW HQ

I'm really driven to finish the multitude of Astartes Kill Teams made from Dark Imperium (and now Shadow Spear) I started last year, though. Even that gives me paralysis of choice when it comes to what chapters I want to actually paint and which are just "cool, I guess". Full Marines army like I wanted as a kid? While having to chose traits *and* a look?! Forget it. I wish I could knock out an army like todays Space Sharks as a "quick" project

Sorry for being vague. In my instance I am thinking about specifically Lamenters, and taking a Lamenters special character. So, sounds like I need to use the Blood Angels codex in this case.

 ph34r wrote:
Sorry for being vague. In my instance I am thinking about specifically Lamenters, and taking a Lamenters special character. So, sounds like I need to use the Blood Angels codex in this case.

Yeah if you want to use Malakim Phoros you're locked into the Blood Angels rules. If you're ok with using the SM codex rules and none of the special BA stuff you can always make your own chapter THE LAMENTERS and use the SM Successor rules, of course.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Sorry for being vague. In my instance I am thinking about specifically Lamenters, and taking a Lamenters special character. So, sounds like I need to use the Blood Angels codex in this case.

Yeah if you want to use Malakim Phoros you're locked into the Blood Angels rules. If you're ok with using the SM codex rules and none of the special BA stuff you can always make your own chapter THE LAMENTERS and use the SM Successor rules, of course.

That makes sense. Thanks guys.

it's worth noting one of the generic chapter traits is actually part of the dark angels traits

BrianDavion wrote:
it's worth noting one of the generic chapter traits is actually part of the dark angels traits

It is also worth noting that none of them mimic the Imperial Fists or Crimson Fists. Both traits for either of those armies are exclusive (besides sharing the Bolter trait between the two of them).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It is also worth noting that none of them mimic the Imperial Fists or Crimson Fists. Both traits for either of those armies are exclusive (besides sharing the Bolter trait between the two of them).

Which is weird. I almost suspect that Bolter Fusillades was supposed to be it, but there was some feth up.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It is also worth noting that none of them mimic the Imperial Fists or Crimson Fists. Both traits for either of those armies are exclusive (besides sharing the Bolter trait between the two of them).

Which is weird. I almost suspect that Bolter Fusillades was supposed to be it, but there was some feth up.

I personally can see it initially being Bolter Fusillades but them realising it was too powerful or it made IF/CF redundant.

The current Bolter Fusillades rule is also really badly written. It allows for all 1's to be re-rolled but at first glance it doesn't read like that.

yeah thats my read they where worried it';d be a bit too good. IFs and CFs chapter tactics are solid, but the second part of them is VERY situational. IFs, just for example might fight an opponent who doesn't bother with cover in which case their CT is pretty much JUST he bolter part of it. Likewise Crimson fists CT is situational, I mean if you're playing agaisnt a custodes army (just for example) your squads aren't going to be out numbered. I think GW was being very careful to avoid a situation where the sucessor chapters where clearly better then the first founding.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Sorry for being vague. In my instance I am thinking about specifically Lamenters, and taking a Lamenters special character. So, sounds like I need to use the Blood Angels codex in this case.

Yeah if you want to use Malakim Phoros you're locked into the Blood Angels rules. If you're ok with using the SM codex rules and none of the special BA stuff you can always make your own chapter THE LAMENTERS and use the SM Successor rules, of course.

And use a generic character and call him “Malakim”, if you don’t specifically want his special profile.
You could even run the Ultramarine book, with Calgar, and call him that, and call the chapter Lamenters on paper/out loud.
As long as the rules for the list are all from one place etc etc

*sigh* Another week of waiting for more SM stuff. I really want my Impulsors and Eliminators. This is getting ridiculous.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
*sigh* Another week of waiting for more SM stuff. I really want my Impulsors and Eliminators. This is getting ridiculous.

Why with all the supplements that will take along time longer.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
*sigh* Another week of waiting for more SM stuff. I really want my Impulsors and Eliminators. This is getting ridiculous.

Why with all the supplements that will take along time longer.

I don't get what you mean. There is no good reason the releases should be spaced a month or so apart. At this rate, it will be Christmas before they are done releasing the kits.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
*sigh* Another week of waiting for more SM stuff. I really want my Impulsors and Eliminators. This is getting ridiculous.

Why with all the supplements that will take along time longer.

I don't get what you mean. There is no good reason the releases should be spaced a month or so apart. At this rate, it will be Christmas before they are done releasing the kits.

Excactly, steady income.
Polishing up those Quartal numbers and with SoB around christmas nice big hike there.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
*sigh* Another week of waiting for more SM stuff. I really want my Impulsors and Eliminators. This is getting ridiculous.

Yeah, i agree, they took the wind out of the sails of this release. I don't care about the supplements and special characters, but you'd think they'd want to get the new troops, heavy weapons and dedicated transport out in the world.
People might actually buy those if given the chance, rather than overpriced gimmick releases.

I'm starting to wonder if Nova coming up was factored into the release schedule.

Nova would give them an opportunity to showcase the remaining 4 supplements all at once, highlight a forthcoming story arc(cause I'm basically guaranteeing you that there is one coming), and give us an idea as to what to expect for the remaining part of the year.

And I say this as someone who is sitting on cash earmarked for 3 sets of Incursors, 2x Reiver Lts, and at least two boxes of Eliminators plus that Raven Guard Supplement and whatever character+upgrade stuff comes out.

definatly annoying the wait, the supplements I can almost understand but would it have killed GW to I dunno.. put out a new kit each week in addition to all this other crap?

BrianDavion wrote:
definatly annoying the wait, the supplements I can almost understand but would it have killed GW to I dunno.. put out a new kit each week in addition to all this other crap?

Probably, just like coordination and communication between their writers seemingly kills them

They are drastically reducing my desire to get much of anything else. Had they posted the article today? They might have gotten me to go in for an Invictor Warsuit on next Saturday. Now it is going to be two weeks at a minimum before a pre-order. And that Invictor will probably be staying on the shelf because it won't be in the New Releases section anymore.

this is definatly reducing impulse buys.

It's a safe bet that they showed the missing kits alongside the things they already released because people would see them in the codex anyway, but given GW's usual behavior this raises expectations among the customers. To have the new Marine releases split up like this atypical to say the least. What an odd release.

on the bright side my birthday is on the 4th so I'll have birthday money for the big mini release that presumably pre-orders on the 7th

Yeah, the wait is killing my drive to buy. And I don't even play Marines. My son that plays UMs just needs 2 Impulsors to complete his list and the wait is making me want to just buy 2 Razorbacks and turn them into Impulsors. My other son plays Salamanders, so we don't even know what he needs for his list

-

honestly, a 3 week wait time isn't that long once we step back, the big problem is a communication issue from GW. truthfully it's hurting them as well. if they'd released the SM stuff I mighta looked at aeronautica, but I'm in a holding pattern until I can get the SM stuff I need

BrianDavion wrote:
on the bright side my birthday is on the 4th so I'll have birthday money for the big mini release that presumably pre-orders on the 7th

How old are you now?

 Alpharius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
on the bright side my birthday is on the 4th so I'll have birthday money for the big mini release that presumably pre-orders on the 7th

How old are you now?

in my thirties but I still get a little bit of money from my folks when I have it.

Lord, the “losing drive” comments are driving me nuts. I hate that GW doesn’t normally give us a six month window on upcoming releases. They have really trained their customers to impulse buy, instead of allowing us to plan ahead and saving up for releases.

 Stormonu wrote:
Lord, the “losing drive” comments are driving me nuts. I hate that GW doesn’t normally give us a six month window on upcoming releases. They have really trained their customers to impulse buy, instead of allowing us to plan ahead and saving up for releases.

Yeah, I don't understand this at all. I plan on adding plenty of Vanguard units to my still in progress Primaris army, but I certainly don't plan or need to buy them all in the next two weeks. I'm finishing up my summer army still, won't be working on any more Marines for at least a few more weeks and still have DI/Shadowspear jump guys to do. The Incursors not being available yet doesn't make me want or plan to buy them any less.

We're probably getting more Space Marine reveals at Nova, 7pm Wednesday evening Eastern time.

 axisofentropy wrote:
We're probably getting more Space Marine reveals at Nova, 7pm Wednesday evening Eastern time.

If all they preview is a couple of supplements and 2 characters that'll suck.

Not all of us are sitting on mountains of plastic crack shame

 axisofentropy wrote:
We're probably getting more Space Marine reveals at Nova, 7pm Wednesday evening Eastern time.

multipart supressors would be a nice suprise

Dudeface wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
We're probably getting more Space Marine reveals at Nova, 7pm Wednesday evening Eastern time.

If all they preview is a couple of supplements and 2 characters that'll suck.

I would be surprised if we even get that. And really, what do we even need for kit previews? We already know what all of the units do. Supplements would be nice though.

 Stormonu wrote:
Lord, the “losing drive” comments are driving me nuts. I hate that GW doesn’t normally give us a six month window on upcoming releases. They have really trained their customers to impulse buy, instead of allowing us to plan ahead and saving up for releases.

Eh. Its not necessarily about buying, and is a lot of about planning. I was interested in the new stuff, but at this point can't even plan around it because the bulk of the release got kicked into limbo immediately after being shown off.
They have trained us to expect releases shortly after they get the song and dance on the website, and new troops and a new dedicated transport for the primary army in the primary game don't usually get shoved off in favor of a procession of niche products.
No word on what should be the highlight of the summer releases is just plain weird.

Don't care which one it is, how much people like it, or how much they're looking forward to it, AI, Warcry and a BF expansion don't compare to SM sales at all.

 axisofentropy wrote:
We're probably getting more Space Marine reveals at Nova, 7pm Wednesday evening Eastern time.

The preview is 8pm Eastern.

I'm thinking/speculating that the 40k side of things will show:
-Remaining Space Marine supplements and associated characters(we have 4 to go still)
-Psychic Awakening
-Kill Team related boxes/whatnots


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Lord, the “losing drive” comments are driving me nuts. I hate that GW doesn’t normally give us a six month window on upcoming releases. They have really trained their customers to impulse buy, instead of allowing us to plan ahead and saving up for releases.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the simplest issue is that there's a [/i]lot[/i] of items tied up with relation to these missing sets.
Eliminators with Las-Fusils? Not here yet.
Incursors? Not here yet.
Impulsors? Not here yet.
Hell, even the Reiver LT isn't here yet.

It's an entirely reasonable response for some people to get burnt out while just remaining in a holding pattern waiting for the items they actually wanted or were excited for. I didn't care about anything beyond the Invictor or the Ultramarines/White Scars stuff from the currently released stuff.

I'm sitting on around $300 strictly for Eliminators, Incursors, and the Reiver LT--plus the Raven Guard book and associated items. If I wasn't a big Raven Guard fanboy? I might have just moved on to something else or used that cash for something else.

I find the fact they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant and then took forever to release him pretty hilarious. Way to feth up royally, GW Marketing Team.

And yeah, it is more the fact that I am sitting around waiting for the stuff I AM adding to my army(2x Impulsors, 2x Eliminators) that I don't even want to get the things I don't necessarily need but kinda want (Invictor, Incursors). They are giving me more time to talk myself out of a lot of things.

Do I want to finish up collecting all the new Primaris models that haven't come out yet?

Yes.

Am I finished painting all the Primaris stuff I already have?

Not Quite.

I'll admit I am chomping at the bit some for the rest of the vanguard Primaris stuff. At the same time, I still have a Primaris Chaplain, Primaris Librarian, 5 Hellblasters, 2 Inceptors, a repulsor executioner, a repulsor and a storm raven to finish painting on the space marine side of things. So I'll try and turn my anticipation into painting time to get caught up so I can focus on the new stuff when it does get released.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
Do I want to finish up collecting all the new Primaris models that haven't come out yet?

Yes.

Am I finished painted all the Primaris stuff I already have?

Not Quite.

I'll admit I am chomping at the bit some for the rest of the vanguard Primaris stuff. At the same time, I still have a Primaris Chaplain, Primaris Librarian, 5 Hellblasters, 2 Inceptors, a repulsor executioner, a repulsor and a storm raven to finish painting on the space marine side of things. So I try and turn my anticipation into painting time to get caught up so I can focus on the new stuff when it does release.

There are a lot of new things I covet, but my pile of shame is deep enough to keep me painting for years. If they drag things out too long, I can probably wait a little longer, and see if the stuff I care about gets bundled together for the holidays. Because I’d totally plop down the cash for a vanguard megaforce. Or a Start Collecting: Vanguard marines. Or heck, with a lot of the updates to the older units, I could probably use more of them as well, if the discount is there...

But buying individual units is generally something that should be avoided when you can from GW. The patient hunter gets the prey...

I'm chomping at the bit waiting to see what's going to be in next month's White Dwarf. The only hint was Primaris Dark Angels, so my hope is that one or more of the characters get the Primaris treatment. I hope it isn't just a Start Collecting bundle with the DA Primaris Lieutenant, some Intercessors, and some Hellblasters, as those are all things I've already got a lot of (well, as many as I need, anyways).

I have feverishly been painting my unfinished primaris stuff for last two weeks. If I get at least majority of it done it is easier to justify myself getting new things.

 Crimson wrote:
I have feverishly been painting my unfinished primaris stuff for last two weeks. If I get at least majority of it done it is easier to justify myself getting new things.

Please, easy or not, we always find a way to justify it!

I try to paint more then I buy, but if the price is right am willing to forgo that goal. I also don’t rush painting so fast I drop in quality trying to meet quotas. They are not going to go stale, better to take my time and be happy with the results.

But any motivation you can harness to get things across the paint bench is a good one.

My Redemptor dreadnought has been on my workbench since it was released, what, two years ago. So I decided that I at least finish it before getting another dreadnought.

Thought technically Invictor is not a dreadnought...

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I have feverishly been painting my unfinished primaris stuff for last two weeks. If I get at least majority of it done it is easier to justify myself getting new things.

Please, easy or not, we always find a way to justify it!

I try to paint more then I buy, but if the price is right am willing to forgo that goal. I also don’t rush painting so fast I drop in quality trying to meet quotas. They are not going to go stale, better to take my time and be happy with the results.

But any motivation you can harness to get things across the paint bench is a good one.

Oh, I get that. I would probably be pretty close to finished with my space marine stuff if it weren't for Warcry coming out (closest thing to a miniatures regret I have). Well, that and work, hot weather and work in hot weather. The week Warcry came out, I had all the terrain and both teams built with a fair amount of base painting on them. I still haven't even read the rules for Warcry. The worst part was the whole time I just wanted to be painting my space marines.

So I have enough paint on the Warcry stuff (I still haven't built the creatures) that if someone does want to play warcry my stuff has a least 4 colors on everything. I have largely boxed it up to go back to painting my marines. Unfortunately, it looks like I am getting into the painting commission service, and I will be reducing my personal painting time for a couple of commissions (nothing fancy, just some GW terrain).

I am with you on not having painting quotas, I don't get asked to paint stuff on commission enough for it to be an issue as I do commissions more to see more painted armies out there than any kinda of profit. For my own stuff, I usually paint in phases with the first one being the minimum amount of paint on the model before I will allow myself to even field it. Followed by painting to pretty good standard and finally little details pretty much only I will notice or show up in photos. Currently, I just want to paint Primaris space marines. They don't have too much baroque detail like my CSM that if feels like it takes too long to paint a single model, yet the also are so simple, like Necrons, that I can paint a whole squad over a weekend. They have just enough details that I feel like I really accomplished something. It doesn't hurt that their main color is my favorite paint color.

Quasistellar wrote:
Not all of us are sitting on mountains of plastic crack shame

Your doing it wrong then

 Stormonu wrote:
They have really trained their customers to impulse buy, instead of allowing us to plan ahead and saving up for releases.

Nothing stops you putting a little money aside each month, there will eventually be things released that you will want. If you are capable of doing when you know the release schedule, you can definitely do it when you don't.

I just want GW to come out and let me know if my DA/BA/DW/SW are getting updated codexes or not so I can decide what color to paint my new models and figure out what to do with all of the chapter specific models I won't be using this edition if they don't get a re-boot...

Danny76 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Sorry for being vague. In my instance I am thinking about specifically Lamenters, and taking a Lamenters special character. So, sounds like I need to use the Blood Angels codex in this case.

Yeah if you want to use Malakim Phoros you're locked into the Blood Angels rules. If you're ok with using the SM codex rules and none of the special BA stuff you can always make your own chapter THE LAMENTERS and use the SM Successor rules, of course.

And use a generic character and call him “Malakim”, if you don’t specifically want his special profile.
You could even run the Ultramarine book, with Calgar, and call him that, and call the chapter Lamenters on paper/out loud.
As long as the rules for the list are all from one place etc etc

It actually depends how FW worded how to take Malakim. It's not outside plausibility he's worded that he can be taken as a Codex Marines CM.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I find the fact they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant and then took forever to release him pretty hilarious. Way to feth up royally, GW Marketing Team.

I find it even funnier that they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant when his design is such a confused mess and no one was particularly excited about the rules he already had. "Oh boy, a new model for a unit that I probably already have and definitely don't see a reason to own a second one of. Hooray." [/sarcasm]

Fictional wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
They have really trained their customers to impulse buy, instead of allowing us to plan ahead and saving up for releases.

Nothing stops you putting a little money aside each month, there will eventually be things released that you will want. If you are capable of doing when you know the release schedule, you can definitely do it when you don't.

Thing is, that money I put aside is already allocated for things I know that are coming. GW springs something unexpected on me, and they’ll have to wait two months (or more) before I’ve put aside money for their kit.

The Newman wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I find the fact they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant and then took forever to release him pretty hilarious. Way to feth up royally, GW Marketing Team.

I find it even funnier that they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant when his design is such a confused mess and no one was particularly excited about the rules he already had. "Oh boy, a new model for a unit that I probably already have and definitely don't see a reason to own a second one of. Hooray." [/sarcasm]

Have you noticed how most of the Lieutenants they have released recently all have the top of their helmet off or no helmet altogether. GW must have gotten tired of painting those stripes.

I would really like the ability to swap the backpacks on the two different Phobos Lieutenants to make an actual halfways useful Lieutenant. I also think the one without a grav chute should have Concealed Positions. But apparently GW wanted to make two totally useless Lieutenants instead. Pass.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I find the fact they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant and then took forever to release him pretty hilarious. Way to feth up royally, GW Marketing Team.

I find it even funnier that they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant when his design is such a confused mess and no one was particularly excited about the rules he already had. "Oh boy, a new model for a unit that I probably already have and definitely don't see a reason to own a second one of. Hooray." [/sarcasm]

Have you noticed how most of the Lieutenants they have released recently all have the top of their helmet off or no helmet altogether. GW must have gotten tired of painting those stripes.

I would really like the ability to swap the backpacks on the two different Phobos Lieutenants to make an actual halfways useful Lieutenant. I also think the one without a grav chute should have Concealed Positions. But apparently GW wanted to make two totally useless Lieutenants instead. Pass.

No model, no rules cost them sales. Who knew?

Just one Lt. dataslate with a few options you could mix and match, and a simple backpack/weapon swap would sort this mess out and rack up some sales. Right now a pass from me as well.

I used to buy multiple boxes to kitbash one unit, would do so again. I’d rather work in GW plastic than 3rd part resin.

Even if you incorporporated 3rd party bitz, most people still used mainline gw models for use and kitbashes off these.

But alas we now have dexes that are stuck on 3 hq choices without special ones.
For 3 subtypes.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I find the fact they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant and then took forever to release him pretty hilarious. Way to feth up royally, GW Marketing Team.

I find it even funnier that they hyped the crap out of that Lieutenant when his design is such a confused mess and no one was particularly excited about the rules he already had. "Oh boy, a new model for a unit that I probably already have and definitely don't see a reason to own a second one of. Hooray." [/sarcasm]

Have you noticed how most of the Lieutenants they have released recently all have the top of their helmet off or no helmet altogether. GW must have gotten tired of painting those stripes.

I would really like the ability to swap the backpacks on the two different Phobos Lieutenants to make an actual halfways useful Lieutenant. I also think the one without a grav chute should have Concealed Positions. But apparently GW wanted to make two totally useless Lieutenants instead. Pass.

No model, no rules cost them sales. Who knew?

Just one Lt. dataslate with a few options you could mix and match, and a simple backpack/weapon swap would sort this mess out and rack up some sales. Right now a pass from me as well.

I used to buy multiple boxes to kitbash one unit, would do so again. I’d rather work in GW plastic than 3rd part resin.

Except that both kits exist in GW plastic, it is just a matter of swapping backpacks and/or heads. It is what it is, I guess. Money saved for me. I have more LTs than I could ever make use of anyway.

So I'm assuming everyone now has saw the new Kayven Shrike tacticool Primaris Phobos model... I'm going to be the first to jump in and say its possibly the ugliest character model they've made in 10 years.

Yeah, Shrike's not particularly asthetically pleasing IMO. I compared him to an emo cosplay space marine Crow crossover but there was another comparison to Winter Soldier that seemed apt as well.

You know the only thing worse then the new Shrike model?

 Alpharius wrote:
You know the only thing worse then the new Shrike model?

The constant complaining about it, and the fact that I have to wait for the model to come out?

 Alpharius wrote:
You know the only thing worse then the new Shrike model?

Possibly the Pumbagore, if we're talking general sculpts.

On a more macro scale, what's going on in the Amazon at the moment.

Well we’ve seen the iron father and shrike now so we I’m guessing we will be getting RG and IH next.

I guess it’ll be black marine month.

 Alpharius wrote:
You know the only thing worse then the new Shrike model?

The jokes from amateur grimdark comedians like myself who point out that he's so depressingly emo that he's the first primaris to get lightning claws just so he can cut himself if he doesn't get first turn?

 Crazyterran wrote:
I guess it’ll be black marine month.

Can't be if it doesn't include Salamanders too

-