After this model moves in your movement phase, if this model did not advance, any units embarked aboard it can disembark. Units that do so cannot be chose to charge with that turn."
What.
The.
feth.
Then HOW IS IT AN ASSAULT VEHICLE??
God these rules writers GW has working for them are idiots.
It's still very strong.
Other armies can't have a unit disembark after transport movement.
The exception I can think of, is the Valkyrie, but there is a risk of losing some dudes on a
Ravajaxe wrote: It's still very strong.
Other armies can't have a unit disembark after transport movement.
The exception I can think of, is the Valkyrie, but there is a risk of losing some dudes on a
Seeing as all those dudes are less than 10 points who cares?
Maybe they finally will get power knife?.. Or monomolecular blade, or indominus pattern vengeance deathbringer (AP1/AP2) blade.
Thats my hope.
Togusa wrote:"Assault Vehicle"
After this model moves in your movement phase, if this model did not advance, any units embarked aboard it can disembark. Units that do so cannot be chose to charge with that turn."
What.
The.
feth.
Then HOW IS IT AN ASSAULT VEHICLE??
God these rules writers GW has working for them are idiots.
Yeah its dumber than Feth, but, it can fit 3 Agressors in it, give them a 4++ and race them forward so they can shoot with the now Ap -1 Bolters.
Maybe they finally will get power knife?.. Or monomolecular blade, or indominus pattern vengeance deathbringer (AP1/AP2) blade.
Thats my hope.
Togusa wrote:"Assault Vehicle"
After this model moves in your movement phase, if this model did not advance, any units embarked aboard it can disembark. Units that do so cannot be chose to charge with that turn."
What.
The.
feth.
Then HOW IS IT AN ASSAULT VEHICLE??
God these rules writers GW has working for them are idiots.
Yeah its dumber than Feth, but, it can fit 3 Agressors in it, give them a 4++ and race them forward so they can shoot with the now Ap -1 Bolters.
So thats good, maybe, probably not.
Stupid rule.
It still is an assult vehicle.
Just instead of terminators charging into the fray you get a bunch of up-armored panzergrenadiers that storm out and start shooting.
Ravajaxe wrote: It's still very strong.
Other armies can't have a unit disembark after transport movement.
The exception I can think of, is the Valkyrie, but there is a risk of losing some dudes on a
Seeing as all those dudes are less than 10 points who cares?
It still is an assult vehicle.
Just instead of terminators charging into the fray you get a bunch of up-armored panzergrenadiers that storm out and start shooting.
Fair, we do get a more historical style of assault vehicle.
It still is an assult vehicle.
Just instead of terminators charging into the fray you get a bunch of up-armored panzergrenadiers that storm out and start shooting.
Fair, we do get a more historical style of assault vehicle.
You get a "realistic" Assault Vehicle.
Not a 40k one though.
Maybe they finally will get power knife?.. Or monomolecular blade, or indominus pattern vengeance deathbringer (AP1/AP2) blade.
Thats my hope.
The blue is also on the pistols and half-masks. It's just how they painted metal on these guys.
Its just more visible because they left it to pool on the blade.
It still is an assult vehicle.
Just instead of terminators charging into the fray you get a bunch of up-armored panzergrenadiers that storm out and start shooting.
Fair, we do get a more historical style of assault vehicle.
You get a "realistic" Assault Vehicle.
Not a 40k one though.
"Realistic" historic same difference, it can be made to work.
Maybe they finally will get power knife?.. Or monomolecular blade, or indominus pattern vengeance deathbringer (AP1/AP2) blade.
Thats my hope.
The blue is also on the pistols and half-masks. It's just how they painted metal on these guys.
Its just more visible because they left it to pool on the blade.
Ah, thats a shame I was hoping it was one of their "hidden" things.
I mean it would be nice if also found on Land Raider or rhinos aswell but it is a good rule imo.
One certainly necessary, altough i am wondering why even change the patern in the first place.
Huh, Krak Grenades launched from Intercessors are now Str 6, AP-2, D3 damage during the first turn. Not half bad.
GW really amped up the Anti-Tank with this release. I am probably going to replace my Lascannon Devastators with a squad or two of Eliminators with Las Fusils. Straight 3 damage is worth the reduction in strength. Add in the fact that they will be AP-4 for the first turn, nothing to turn my nose at.
I am trying to figure out the best troops to put in the Impulsor. If it can carry Aggressors, that might be it. If not, probably Hellblasters. In either case, I am probably going with the shield dome. 4++ will make them durable enough to get to where they need to be and disgorge their cargo for some prime shooting. I will magnetize them just in case though. That missile launcher seems nice.
The Invictor is pretty nice. A solid Anti-Infantry weapon and some nice mid-strength shooting. Don't really care for the model though.
I am not really feeling the Incursors. Might be able to put them to good use. Definitely giving the Phobos Lieutenant one of their helmets though. I like the Infiltrators for their Helix Adepts (the Army Nurse in me wants a nice representation of myself). I will wait for a better look at both though.
The Phobos Lieutenant has an interesting blend of Incursor Visor(it looks like the Incursors' perk of ignoring modifiers comes from the visor and the Oculus Bolt Carbine working together) and a mask that we haven't seen yet on anything Phobos. It's shown up just on the Lt and a somewhat similar mask is on Intercessors(minus the quad cylinders).
Spoiler:
Interestingly enough as well, the Instigator Bolt Carbine is what the Phobos Captain has a Master-Crafted version of.
Kanluwen wrote: The Phobos Lieutenant has an interesting blend of Incursor Visor(it looks like the Incursors' perk of ignoring modifiers comes from the visor and the Oculus Bolt Carbine working together) and a mask that we haven't seen yet on anything Phobos. It's shown up just on the Lt and a somewhat similar mask is on Intercessors(minus the quad cylinders).
Spoiler:
Interestingly enough as well, the Instigator Bolt Carbine is what the Phobos Captain has a Master-Crafted version of.
The Phobos Librarian has the same mask. Just splitting hairs though.
Part of me wants to really see what the stats are for the Pistol and Knife Lieutenant. I might convert my Shadowspear LT into that one if the stats are good.
Everyone knows, Ghaz, that the real trendsetter is Geordi LaForge.
Honestly, I like the concept though. I think this is the first time we've actually seen the whole concept of the "scope isn't really a scope and links wirelessly to something else" actually modeled.
Kanluwen wrote: The Phobos Lieutenant has an interesting blend of Incursor Visor(it looks like the Incursors' perk of ignoring modifiers comes from the visor and the Oculus Bolt Carbine working together) and a mask that we haven't seen yet on anything Phobos. It's shown up just on the Lt and a somewhat similar mask is on Intercessors(minus the quad cylinders).
Spoiler:
Interestingly enough as well, the Instigator Bolt Carbine is what the Phobos Captain has a Master-Crafted version of.
The Phobos Librarian has the same mask. Just splitting hairs though.
Part of me wants to really see what the stats are for the Pistol and Knife Lieutenant. I might convert my Shadowspear LT into that one if the stats are good.
You're right, and upon closer examination...it's interesting.
The quad cylinders are there, just the 'mask' is the same as the Infiltrators instead of the other Intercessor styled mask.
Well, the Phobos Librarian has single cylinders rather than double cylinders, but the mouthpiece is the same.
I really hope the Infiltrator/Incursor kit comes with plenty of extra heads so I can fix the no helmet issue for several kits. Same with the Eliminators.
Kanluwen wrote: At the very least, we know there's Infiltrator vs Incursor heads--and apparently different toppers for the backpacks.
Yeah, might need to get a box to combine with my Infiltrators to make 10 Infiltrators(with a Helix Adept per squad)and 5 Incursors. Should be a fun unit to try out at least. It'll give me plenty of options.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Now do the Doctrines apply to the whole army or the detachment?
If it's just detachment, Shrike leading Vanguard or a Templar HQ going with Vanguard all get AP-1 Chainswords OR Pistols when they dual wield. That's fething WILD to me and makes me actually want to order the stuff I need for my Jump Pack dudes instead of my proxies.
I have been told by people in the know that the entire army has to be pure single faction to get the combat doctrines.
That makes me very happy.
Me too. We need more rules that give bonuses for single faction armies
-
they should only effect mono armies. a cohesive army would innately work better with their gene brothers than those of another. I've only fielded mono marine(unless apoc/specific scenario) and cant wait for the new stuff. My Salamanders should be a bit more resilient(like they should be) and a bit more deadly(master artisans they are).
I think chucking either hellblasters or aggressors out of impulsors into/on to cover can be a pretty effective use of them. then the impulsor can either continue up the field(sticking around with the 4++)and intercept/feint another unit while the previously transported unit sweeps out of cover killing whatever needed killing in threat range. Or it can sit back and provide close fire support to provide a defensive kill zone around them while the units do the heavy lifting.
Very nice models and the create-your-own-chapter feature is obviously uber-cool. But its time GW took a look at the Eldar, a very iconic 40K race along with the Orks.
SamusDrake wrote: Very nice models and the create-your-own-chapter feature is obviously uber-cool. But its time GW took a look at the Eldar, a very iconic 40K race along with the Orks.
And what? Nerfed them? Eldar have been a top-performing faction for twenty years. They need to look at Necrons and Tyranids long long long before they look at Eldar.
I will guess now that BA/DA/SW will get combat doctrines in some form or another. Maybe they get completely different effects, or in the case of BA maybe they get them in a different order, such as tactical, the assault then Devastators etc.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I will guess now that BA/DA/SW will get combat doctrines in some form or another. Maybe they get completely different effects, or in the case of BA maybe they get them in a different order, such as tactical, the assault then Devastators etc.
That would make a ton of sense, actually. Space Wolves could be Assault, then Tactical, then Devastators (Blood Claw, Grey Hunter, Long Fang).
Argive wrote: Yeah... nah.. they gone too far... The power creep is stong in this one..
All of this has made all the other factions look pedestrian.
I'm keen to read more about the extensive play-testing you've done with this new codex in order to reach that conclusion.
Going on the assumption the points will stay roughly similar to what they already are.
I cant think of any other army that gives you this many layers of special rules and options currently. Maybe I'm jumping the gun. We can revisit this conversation in a couple of weeks and see.
SamusDrake wrote: Very nice models and the create-your-own-chapter feature is obviously uber-cool. But its time GW took a look at the Eldar, a very iconic 40K race along with the Orks.
And what? Nerfed them? Eldar have been a top-performing faction for twenty years. They need to look at Necrons and Tyranids long long long before they look at Eldar.
My man. But yeah, honestly, Necrons need the most help of all the xenos rules wise. Tyranids have some good stuff, and one two-tone trait (kraken), as well as some good synergies. But Necrons don't seem to have that from what I've experienced fighting them.
I'd honestly like to see most armies move to traits having two effects, one major and one lesser would be fine, or if they work together well. They don't have to be the best, just worth taking in certain builds.
SamusDrake wrote: Very nice models and the create-your-own-chapter feature is obviously uber-cool. But its time GW took a look at the Eldar, a very iconic 40K race along with the Orks.
And what? Nerfed them? Eldar have been a top-performing faction for twenty years. They need to look at Necrons and Tyranids long long long before they look at Eldar.
And they have been using the same kits for 20 years is the point he's trying to make im sure.
I like both the new tacticool look and the old space knight look. I hope a future release will lean more towards the space knight side.
I'm interested in seeing if the Black Templars will get something different than the regular doctrines. Not that the regular doctrines don't work well for them, I think it would be just fine if that's what they got, I'm just curious if they'll get something different because they're weirdos.
Argive wrote: Yeah... nah.. they gone too far... The power creep is stong in this one..
All of this has made all the other factions look pedestrian.
I'm keen to read more about the extensive play-testing you've done with this new codex in order to reach that conclusion.
Going on the assumption the points will stay roughly similar to what they already are.
I cant think of any other army that gives you this many layers of special rules and options currently. Maybe I'm jumping the gun. We can revisit this conversation in a couple of weeks and see.
Can you think of any other army whose base unit stats are this bad compared to their points cost? SM need this many buffs to make them worthwhile. Everyone else will still be able to just scrub them with plasma.
looking at the impulsor it looks like it'll have two built in storm bolters. so.. even the 4++ transport one is gonna ahve some guns. about on par with a rhino. so yeah.. proably 100-115 points
BrianDavion wrote: looking at the impulsor it looks like it'll have two built in storm bolters. so.. even the 4++ transport one is gonna ahve some guns. about on par with a rhino. so yeah.. proably 100-115 points
Hopefully that Heavy Stubber isn't required. I would drop that to save points. I am actually leaning toward going with the Missile Launcher variant. It is probably the most expensive version, but tossing a Krak missile or two out is some decent Anti-Tank.
I still think the Devastator Doctrine paired with Intercessors with the Auxillary Grenade Launcher is going to be pretty money. Str 6, AP-2, D3 damage is decent for a 0 pt weapon.
The fact that they list a Phobos Captain in the datasheets that the non-codex chapters are getting makes me hopeful that we might be getting non-model loadouts for HQs. As far as I can remember there isn’t a Phobos Captain model.
NivlacSupreme wrote: The fact that they list a Phobos Captain in the datasheets that the non-codex chapters are getting makes me hopeful that we might be getting non-model loadouts for HQs. As far as I can remember there isn’t a Phobos Captain model.
So I am rereading the Eliminator Sergeant's ability. Seems like it is best to take the cheapest weapon available on him and put him in the biggest squad you can. You'll be wounding T4 on 2+(MW on 5s and 6s) and hitting on 2s. Seems like a great way to delete a character. Add in Crimson Fists or Imperial Fists for additional shots on a 6. Not bad for wiping out those pesky enemy Psykers and or Captains.
Question: Angels of Death Rule was supposed be a catch all for "all marines" is this GW team failing at words again, cause that would mean Chaos Marines getting doctrines as well? As Shock Assault is one part of Angels of Death Rule.
Also from £30 (Current Codex) to £130 for Space Marines + 6 Faction 1st Founding Supplements.
ThatMG wrote: Question: Angels of Death Rule was supposed be a catch all for "all marines" is this GW team failing at words again, cause that would mean Chaos Marines getting doctrines as well? As Shock Assault is one part of Angels of Death Rule.
Also from £30 (Current Codex) to £130 for Space Marines + 6 Faction 1st Founding Supplements.
Yeah but that only sucks if you have a salamanders, iron hands, imperial fists, raven guard, whitescars and ultramarines armies already.
For those whinging a about power creep... Remember the repulsor executioner went up in points in the Faq recently. No one knows point costs as of yet, many units could go up in points.
ThatMG wrote: Question: Angels of Death Rule was supposed be a catch all for "all marines" is this GW team failing at words again, cause that would mean Chaos Marines getting doctrines as well? As Shock Assault is one part of Angels of Death Rule.
Also from £30 (Current Codex) to £130 for Space Marines + 6 Faction 1st Founding Supplements.
Yeah but that only sucks if you have a salamanders, iron hands, imperial fists, raven guard, whitescars and ultramarines armies already.
My only disappointment is that they’re continuing to up the anti on brutality instead of reining it in to let for cool units to live a little longer. They seem like they want to continuously update with more dmg and more AP. That said, if they want to keep going down this path at least marines are looking good now.
My hope now is that 9th comes in during or after the next stream of codex updates, and turns it into Kill Team’s semi-alternate activation, which will be all we can expect I think, especially if you want the new books to work with how their rules are written with aura abilities and such.
Tiberius501 wrote: My only disappointment is that they’re continuing to up the anti on brutality instead of reining it in to let for cool units to live a little longer. They seem like they want to continuously update with more dmg and more AP. That said, if they want to keep going down this path at least marines are looking good now.
My hope now is that 9th comes in during or after the next stream of codex updates, and turns it into Kill Team’s semi-alternate activation, which will be all we can expect I think, especially if you want the new books to work with how their rules are written with aura abilities and such.
Kinda feel that 9th if it DID happen (I personally don't think we have to worry GW are making bank in 8th so they can delay for longer hopefully.) They would combine many rules from other systems. Damage being resolved at the end of the round, Garrisoned structures, you go I go from apocalypse.
Argive wrote: Yeah... nah.. they gone too far... The power creep is stong in this one..
All of this has made all the other factions look pedestrian.
I'm keen to read more about the extensive play-testing you've done with this new codex in order to reach that conclusion.
Going on the assumption the points will stay roughly similar to what they already are.
I cant think of any other army that gives you this many layers of special rules and options currently. Maybe I'm jumping the gun. We can revisit this conversation in a couple of weeks and see.
Yeah... Iron Hands get an unconditional version of the Tau Sept trait, a 6+ FNP, effectively ignore degrading wounds on vehicles, +1 Attack on charge etc, +1 AP depending on doctrine, and unique strategems that haven't been released yet. It does seem like a bit much to do at once. It would be hilarious if the landslide of buffs results in point increases across the board as a direct result of 1-2 chapter tactics being too strong.
Bad news, no new kit of suppressor. Shadowspear only. ermm.gif
Eliminators 3 max>unit
auto bolt riffle goes Assaut 3
15pts lasgun
75pts Impulsor naked (15 to 18 pts for options)
19pts incursor + 10pts mine
If the Las Fusil is really 15 pts, that would make Eliminators 36 pts a piece. That is a bit too rich for my blood. And that sucks. If they really are 108 per squad, I will just keep my Lascannon Devastators.
If the Impulsor is 90 or so points that is pretty sweet. Incursors are pretty inexpensive for Fast Attack if you want to try for a Brigade. I still plan on getting a squad of them. I wonder if Infiltrators will be brought down in cost to match Incursors.
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
I really hoped for them, they'd make great ALpha legion chosen.
Or more ghostly ghost chosen for my cursed chaos warband.
i also kinda grew fond of the venomcrawler and a cheap daemon engine (money wise) would be cool to have, maybee evene in swarms? 1-3? Pls?!?
As for cultists. Surprising really after chapterhouse.
Anvil it is there for me
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
I wouldn't be surprised if they made changes to the Suppressor Squad's rules to make them very desirable so you have to buy the Shadowspear boxed set to get more. They kinda did so with the Oblits. Either way, it is annoying.
Aren't Poxwalkers available as ETB? Not sure how that factors into things.
Why there isn't a multi-kit I do not know. Maybe they're waiting to re-do Zombies for AoS, and then there will be a conversion kit to turn them into Pox Walkers ala Tzaangors vs 40K Tzaangors.
Why there isn't a multi-kit I do not know. Maybe they're waiting to re-do Zombies for AoS, and then there will be a conversion kit to turn them into Pox Walkers ala Tzaangors vs 40K Tzaangors.
Well that is bizarre. Can you even run them in squads of 6? And yeah, ETB is a non-starter. I wouldn't count on a new zombie release. Tzaangors seemed to be a unique thing
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
The incursor head look like it had some inspiration from the vindicare asassin.
I like primaris in general, but not really tempted by any of the new guys -maybe if I wanted to start a new army and decided to build it around phobos marines.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.
They'll probably turn up as a SC box.
a squad of CSMs, 2 oblits and a venom crawler? yeah I could see it
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.
They'll probably turn up as a SC box.
Not before solo box of them though. SC is older units in discount box.
My guess is no Suppressors because this is a Phobos centered release and they’re not wearing Phobos armor. I was hoping for some new options for them though, anti tank preferably, but that seems to be getting covered by the Eliminators instead.
Kanluwen wrote: Everyone knows, Ghaz, that the real trendsetter is Geordi LaForge.
Honestly, I like the concept though. I think this is the first time we've actually seen the whole concept of the "scope isn't really a scope and links wirelessly to something else" actually modeled.
Kanluwen wrote: The Phobos Lieutenant has an interesting blend of Incursor Visor(it looks like the Incursors' perk of ignoring modifiers comes from the visor and the Oculus Bolt Carbine working together) and a mask that we haven't seen yet on anything Phobos. It's shown up just on the Lt and a somewhat similar mask is on Intercessors(minus the quad cylinders).
Spoiler:
Interestingly enough as well, the Instigator Bolt Carbine is what the Phobos Captain has a Master-Crafted version of.
The Phobos Librarian has the same mask. Just splitting hairs though.
Part of me wants to really see what the stats are for the Pistol and Knife Lieutenant. I might convert my Shadowspear LT into that one if the stats are good.
You're right, and upon closer examination...it's interesting.
The quad cylinders are there, just the 'mask' is the same as the Infiltrators instead of the other Intercessor styled mask.
This model looks like the designer was told to make a Reiver more high tech and had no idea how to do so, so he just dabbed some glue and rolled it in a bits box full of nothing but scopes and sensors. Seriously, how the hell is there such a huge disconnect in design quality between the “high tech” models like these and the moon shoe marines, and the actually good Primaris models like Kor’sarro and the Intercessors.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.
They'll probably turn up as a SC box.
a squad of CSMs, 2 oblits and a venom crawler? yeah I could see it
These are the sprues:
Spoiler:
It would get you:
10x Chaos Space Marines
2x Obliterators
2x Greater Possessed(can't forget these chaps!)
1x Venomcrawler
For giggles, here's the Primaris half:
Spoiler:
Shadowspear got you a duplicate of the first sprue(the 'rank and file') and a single of the second, if released by itself it would get you:
10x Infiltrators
3x Eliminators
3x Suppressors
1x Phobos Lieutenant
The Captain and Librarian in Phobos Armor plus the Master of Possession are all individual sprues.
Interestingly enough, the CSM side comes out heavier in terms of Power Levels if you plug just the Shadowspear contents into the Combat Roster:
The chaos side is definitely NOT the "expensive" stuff. Gotta get away from using GW prices to determine worth :p The CSM side of shadowspear is super easy to get on ebay or in trades still... because it's not good.
Marine side is extremely hard to find and you pay basically $30-40 for each unit.
Kanluwen wrote: "Expensive" clearly was in reference to the unit's in-game values, given that the spoilered section immediately above was army rosters.
You used the term "heavier" in the spoiler and then expensive after it.. Either way, in points/PL or money its a bad deal for CSM!
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?
GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed. It is just stupid that the only way to get some of these things is by buying a $170 boxed set. Chaos definitely has it a lot worse, IMO.
And Shadowspear is "No Longer Available" (in the UK, at least).
Of course it is. I suppose GW could release the Sprue as an ETB Obliterators and Venomcrawler.
Hmm. If I'm going to run a brigade then three suppressors are not enough. I hope they do get a proper kit. I'd be pretty surprised if they don't, eventually. But they never particularly fitted with the Vanguard thing, which this release is mainly focused on. The full kit might not come for a while - which would suck.
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?
GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.
Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.
This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?
GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.
Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.
This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.
I never claimed it was smart.
And it still worked, those boxsets sold out faster around here than anything else released in months. I was talking to two of the local store owners in my area. One store (the bigger) sold 105 copies of Shadowspear, the other store sold 56 copies.
That is a metric ton of sales for a boxset if you ask me.
Then again I guess you could say the same thing about Venomcrawlers and Oblits. Or Primaris Ancients. Or Poxwalkers. Or Cultists.
One really does wonder why GW makes these units, some which might be integral, but never releases full kits for them. I mean you can't even get the Cultist Heavy weapons or leader now.
That's the stratagem. Make a thing that people want, but make sure it's locked behind a paywall that creates an artificial sense of urgency and need. Want Obliterators? Of course you do! Look at them! They're awesome, great models, great rules. Well, wait no longer, just fork over 150$ for this boxset and you can have TWO of them! How lucky is that?
GW has moved right into the slimey realm of the same kinds of gak AAA game developers have been doing with loot boxes and "liiiiveeee services." It's the same behavior.
Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.
This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.
I never claimed it was smart.
And it still worked, those boxsets sold out faster around here than anything else released in months. I was talking to two of the local store owners in my area. One store (the bigger) sold 105 copies of Shadowspear, the other store sold 56 copies.
That is a metric ton of sales for a boxset if you ask me.
It worked, but it would still be working if they were still selling the box.
I can't wait for SM players to have to buy their codex again when inevitably the next campaign book set has more new primaris. Like more dudes in suppressor armor or more dudes in gravis armor. lol
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
Makes sense. Gives a reason not to just use the cheesiest version of chapter traits. So either you can mix and match your traits or take one of the set ones and get lots of other stuff.
Question is if these require the entire army, not just detachment, to be drawn from the same books. (i.e. all Ultramarines)
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
I don’t get the Master of Strategy warlord trait. It says allows an accompanying unit the use of the Tactical doctrine, but I thought everything used the doctrine that was activated at the same time across the army? Or does it mean that it can use the Tactical doctrine out of sequence on the unit? If it does then that plus the Scions of Guilliman rule on some supercharged hellblasters with Heavy Plasma incinerators will be harsh
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
Only a -1 if you advance them. Instead you can pop 3 in the Impulsor, move drop and fire twice.
If the rest of the splat books contain abilities as powerful as this one hello marine meta.
The cash grab aspect of this really bothers me though. Obvious OP rules are obvious and this doesn't even look like GW was trying to put out something balanced.
The splat books are going to be a must buy. The "marine book" is basically a 40$ tax to be able to play your chapter.
DA/SW/BA/DW (me) are majorly boned by this release though. Paying for marine units without new and improved marine rules is so bad for factions (DA/SW/BA) that already struggled to keep up with codex marines. The same for the rest of the marine chapters who don't have their releases yet (at least their salvation is just beyond the horizon...)
As much as I like to see marines improved this release is starting to look bad for the health of the game, a thinly veiled pay to win cash grab and indicative of GW not understanding the game they make (most of my main gripes about 40k).
All this could be changed by what we actually see in the codex so I'm trying my best to hold off on rushing to judgement but from what we've seen so far it's not looking good (no Gman nerf!?!?)...
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
Only a -1 if you advance them. Instead you can pop 3 in the Impulsor, move drop and fire twice.
That's unsettling, if they actually fit in the Impusor (no particular reason they wouldn't, but termies don't fit in rhinos).
I guess you can't do it on turn 1, unless there's a stratagem to let you... which is pretty likely. This makes even the flamer aggressors not awful.
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
Only a -1 if you advance them. Instead you can pop 3 in the Impulsor, move drop and fire twice.
That's unsettling, if they actually fit in the Impusor (no particular reason they wouldn't, but termies don't fit in rhinos).
I guess you can't do it on turn 1, unless there's a stratagem to let you... which is pretty likely. This makes even the flamer aggressors not awful.
Impuslor fits 6 Primaris, 3 Agressors is 6 Normal Primaris. Rush up, shoot.
Thats what 12+2d6 Shots per dude at Ap -1 (Ap -2 with the Ultra Strat and 6s)
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
EEEP
A pod of three Aggressors dropping out of an Impulsor turn 2 is going to put out ~54 S4 AP-1 D1 shots. Thats bloody terrifying.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Weird to see an Ultramarine army without any Marines in it.
All Primaris.
Didn't you get that memo?
Yeah, they ripped off that band aid two years ago. Anyone who thought otherwise (not necessarily HBMC as I suspect he's playing coy) was kidding themselves. The best we can hope for is legacy support going forward.
Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.
Latro_ wrote: I meant minus 1 as in not only moving and firing twice but the tactical doctrine also makes those shots ap -1.
Didn't the counts as moving thing recently have a long exhaustive faq explanation maybe baconcatbug or someone can workout if this will be legit
This is ofc assuming they even still have the fire twice thing in the new codex
Well they still wouldnt get a -1 from Firing twice, and they ignore the -1 from Advancing, which would discount them from firing twice with this. So I should have known thats what you were meaning, my bad.
I cant imagine them changing them from being able to fire twice, its pretty much the only thing they have going for them. Im pretty sure they would benefit from it. As long as they have the Doctrine, they count as not having moved.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Weird to see an Ultramarine army without any Marines in it.
All Primaris.
Didn't you get that memo?
Yeah, they ripped off that band aid two years ago. Anyone who thought otherwise (not necessarily HBMC as I suspect he's playing coy) was kidding themselves. The best we can hope for is legacy support going forward.
So unpopular opinion time.
I started this hobby with marines, Salamanders to be exact at the beginning of 7th end of 6th.
Bring on the Primaris.
The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines
To me, I'd be happy if they just squatted all midget marines withthis book and included only primaris models.
The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines
I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.
They can't feel more marine than the marines, that's nonsense...
And if you have ever read the very first page of a rule book, you know they fit less: forget science etc ? Does this remind you of smth ?
You know, it's weird, I have no interest whatsoever in buying or owning Primaris Marines and yet I agree 100% with Togusa. My Beakies got a wonderful send off with the Battle Company rules in 7th, and it's nice to see GW doing something new with them.
I think the real question is whether this codex makes Marines good enough to stand up to Knights and Aeldari.
So is it, like, really dangerous to cross the Rubicon Primaris? And if so, what are the chances we'll see any named characters dying in the process? Like, oh no! Commander Dante died in surgery! Such a tragic end for such a noble hero!
Or maybe it just so happens that the only ones who don't make it are ones we don't care about and/or who they don't want to update the models for and/or who are Black Templars.
The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines
I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.
I agree they are just much better. They are the right size for marines and they have the stats marines always should have had.
Marines are supposed to be badasses. For several editions a tactical marine with a bolt gun was nothing more than a scoring unit token. These are meant to be GW’s signature model - probably the first thing anyone thinks of when they think of the company. Now they have an actual value in the game.
The mini marines were great kits when they came out, but that was decades ago. It’s not good enough to have armour that a person (no mater how enhanced) could never fit inside any more.
I do understand the nostalgia, and not wanting to bin companies worth of plastic, but it’s impossible to argue that the old models are better.
xKillGorex wrote: Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.
I see a diorama with a marine policeman and ork buggy
xKillGorex wrote: Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.
I see a diorama with a marine policeman and ork buggy
Ha yeah, that’s exactly the image i had in mind when i saw the mini.
What primaris did for marines needed to happen to marines even if primaris weren't the best way to do it. Tactical marines being something of the baseline unit for the game meant as time went on power creep was leaving them in the dust to the point that it almost didn't matter how cheap they were since they ended up as disposable and vulnerable as scouts... and you couldn't really change that much without addressing a bunch of other armies too.
Space Marines relative to the wider pop culture end up not as cool as they were in the 80's and 90's when they were conceptually solidified. You have a generation exposed through video game to a slew of the tactical equipment of modern military and you have sci-fi movies and games where fictional advanced technology is portrayed in something of a departure of the more grounded portrayal more common in the decades Space Marines were created.
How often does someone new ask, "why do marines use Rhinos and not Chimeras?" because of the perception that a tank with a gun and transport capacity is better than a dedicated armored people mover. There are a slew of reasons but Space Marines are meant to appeal in a way that immediately resonates with people that are intrigued by gaming miniatures.
I like my classic space marines and I like the Primaris. I wish one didn't need to be propped up by keeping the other one down... likely phasing them out. I would have liked to have seen Primaris released more gradually. My issue with Primaris is that they represent how far behind in generations of models many other factions are... but the Primaris represent a shift away from updating the model kits for existing units, to just replacing them.
SamusDrake wrote: Very nice models and the create-your-own-chapter feature is obviously uber-cool. But its time GW took a look at the Eldar, a very iconic 40K race along with the Orks.
And what? Nerfed them? Eldar have been a top-performing faction for twenty years. They need to look at Necrons and Tyranids long long long before they look at Eldar.
And they have been using the same kits for 20 years is the point he's trying to make im sure.
So ultra agressors are literally insane then? Can move and fire twice at -1 to their bolters (unless the remains stationary thing overrides this, i guess it does?)
EEEP
A pod of three Aggressors dropping out of an Impulsor turn 2 is going to put out ~54 S4 AP-1 D1 shots. Thats bloody terrifying.
Aggressors don’t get -1 AP during tactical doctrine. Gotta wait for the assault doctrine.
Also, now that Stalker Bolt Rifles are basically the Master crafted Stalkers what will Master crafted do to them in this edition? I think either extra shots or higher strength
here are also a number of bespoke Ultramarines datasheets, from the noble Captain Sicarius of the 2nd Company to power axe-wielding Honour Guard and even their glorious Primarch and Lord-Commander of the Imperium, Roboute Guilliman.
people had been doing the math and speculating honor guard where removed from the codex and put into the UM supplement. looks like this is confirmed.
UM get another bonus on top of the tactical doctrine and not a shabby one. I'm curious what the other chapters will get. Also a bonus on doctrines or something unique?
The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines
I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.
Clarification: They look the appropriate size when compared to other races on the tabletop. Proportions look better, they feel powerful just from their aesthetics.
warboss wrote:Yeah, they ripped off that band aid two years ago. Anyone who thought otherwise (not necessarily HBMC as I suspect he's playing coy) was kidding themselves. The best we can hope for is legacy support going forward.
My guess: There will be legacy support until Primaris have everything you need (all the main selling chapters, all the units,…). From then on you will be lucky to get some sort of simple army list that maybe gets updated with each new edition of the game. Then when they see that "nobody" is playing old marines in their stores and tournaments (because the rules are coincidentally not good enough) and when Primaris sales have stabilised or overtaken old marine sales there won't even be lists anymore two/three editions later.
You'll get to play your old marines with legacy rules at home (if you want) and from then on the focus will be on Primaris Marines alone. Your old marines will feel like some of those old RT metal marines with strange weapon combinations that don't work in modern (meaning: 90s or 00s) rules anymore. An old artefact that's of no use in the new game except for some conversions or as an oddity (like using the occasional Mk1 Land Raider once the new one was released).
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:So is it, like, really dangerous to cross the Rubicon Primaris? And if so, what are the chances we'll see any named characters dying in the process? Like, oh no! Commander Dante died in surgery! Such a tragic end for such a noble hero!
They will extract the character specific gene-seed when they die in some dramatic/heroic way (too heroic for a dreadnought) and use that with the new, experimental process to create Primaris special characters. This experimental approach might even have some downside like rapid ageing so that your new Primaris special character will feel like your old marine character always was a Primaris character. For historic characters who are already dead: They found some of their gene-seed/DNA somewhere, then the sam process.
That way all the nicely selling special characters can get a Primaris makeover. GW just need to "invent" some new cloning lore by looking back at Dune.
The look better,
Fit the Universe More
Feel more like marines
I agree that some of them look much better (basically the interceptor and phobos/reaver types) but how do they fit the universe more? As for feel more like marines, do you mean in regards to the rules? GW purposefully gave Secundus/classic marines gakky rules (like no AP on bolters) in order to differentiate Primaris. Primaris are what normal marines should have been this edition given the decades of fluff but they obviously and unsurprisingly prioritized selling the new kits.
Clarification: They look the appropriate size when compared to other races on the tabletop. Proportions look better, they feel powerful just from their aesthetics.
The models are definitely a much more powerful and imposing size compared to other miniatures, but the problem seems to still be there as the Primaris Marine lore says they are meant to be bigger than standard marines. If normal Space Marine Miniatures should really be around the same size as a Primaris Marine miniature in comparison to other stuff, that means the Primaris Marines miniatures are the wrong size to be Primaris Marines.
Anyone know if you can mix elements of the First founding Chapters? Or do you have to start from, say, Salamanders reroll 1 hit/wound trait and add a second trait that ISN'T shared by UM, WS, RG, etc
As-in, can you have a Salamanders successor with reroll 1 hit/wound and fallback/shoot traits allied with an UM successor detachment with fallback/shoot and reroll 1 hit/wound traits? I ask because my son's play Salamanders/UMs respectively and they have a brotherly rivalry for whose Chapter is the best. With the successor traits, we could basically make them the same without either giving up their chosen Chapter
Although what's more likely to happen is that they chose completely different traits to keep one-upping each other
There are a lot of pages on this thread but will the new codex and supplements be primaris only? on the back of the white scars book There is a bike and land speeder, unless they are primaris versions with no discernible difference.
Jimbobbyish wrote: There are a lot of pages on this thread but will the new codex and supplements be primaris only? on the back of the white scars book There is a bike and land speeder, unless they are primaris versions with no discernible difference.
Most certainly not Primaris only. GW confirmed the main Codex will have 76 datasheets, and there aren't nearly that many Primaris units.
Jimbobbyish wrote: There are a lot of pages on this thread but will the new codex and supplements be primaris only? on the back of the white scars book There is a bike and land speeder, unless they are primaris versions with no discernible difference.
Most certainly not Primaris only. GW confirmed the main Codex will have 76 datasheets, and there aren't nearly that many Primaris units.
-
Depends, do you count all of the lieutenants separately...?
Jimbobbyish wrote: There are a lot of pages on this thread but will the new codex and supplements be primaris only? on the back of the white scars book There is a bike and land speeder, unless they are primaris versions with no discernible difference.
Most certainly not Primaris only. GW confirmed the main Codex will have 76 datasheets, and there aren't nearly that many Primaris units.
-
Depends, do you count all of the lieutenants separately...?
Don't be silly, with all the Primaris Lieutenants that wouldn't be a codex but rather a full enceclopedia.
Galef wrote: Anyone know if you can mix elements of the First founding Chapters? Or do you have to start from, say, Salamanders reroll 1 hit/wound trait and add a second trait that ISN'T shared by UM, WS, RG, etc
As-in, can you have a Salamanders successor with reroll 1 hit/wound and fallback/shoot traits allied with an UM successor detachment with fallback/shoot and reroll 1 hit/wound traits?
I ask because my son's play Salamanders/UMs respectively and they have a brotherly rivalry for whose Chapter is the best. With the successor traits, we could basically make them the same without either giving up their chosen Chapter
Although what's more likely to happen is that they chose completely different traits to keep one-upping each other
-
You probably won't be able to do that for balancing reasons. Imagine someone taking the Fall Back trait of the Ultramarines and the assault trait of the White Scars. It would get a bit silly.
Galef wrote: Anyone know if you can mix elements of the First founding Chapters? Or do you have to start from, say, Salamanders reroll 1 hit/wound trait and add a second trait that ISN'T shared by UM, WS, RG, etc
As-in, can you have a Salamanders successor with reroll 1 hit/wound and fallback/shoot traits allied with an UM successor detachment with fallback/shoot and reroll 1 hit/wound traits?
I ask because my son's play Salamanders/UMs respectively and they have a brotherly rivalry for whose Chapter is the best. With the successor traits, we could basically make them the same without either giving up their chosen Chapter
Although what's more likely to happen is that they chose completely different traits to keep one-upping each other
-
You probably won't be able to do that for balancing reasons. Imagine someone taking the Fall Back trait of the Ultramarines and the assault trait of the White Scars. It would get a bit silly.
Can’t you do that with the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment?
Galef wrote: Anyone know if you can mix elements of the First founding Chapters? Or do you have to start from, say, Salamanders reroll 1 hit/wound trait and add a second trait that ISN'T shared by UM, WS, RG, etc
As-in, can you have a Salamanders successor with reroll 1 hit/wound and fallback/shoot traits allied with an UM successor detachment with fallback/shoot and reroll 1 hit/wound traits?
I ask because my son's play Salamanders/UMs respectively and they have a brotherly rivalry for whose Chapter is the best. With the successor traits, we could basically make them the same without either giving up their chosen Chapter
Although what's more likely to happen is that they chose completely different traits to keep one-upping each other
-
You probably won't be able to do that for balancing reasons. Imagine someone taking the Fall Back trait of the Ultramarines and the assault trait of the White Scars. It would get a bit silly.
Can’t you do that with the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment?
Which would cost CP to pull off, which is a balancing point.
xKillGorex wrote: Never thought I’d say this but damn i really want all of these new marine kits. Although some of the scopes need to go, they remind me of the speed guns the police use.
I see a diorama with a marine policeman and ork buggy
Im excited to see the potential for a Slamghatai Khan tomorrow. Since Khan Bikers are back, give him a Thunder Hammer, Advance and Charge with a Bike. 5 base Attacks, Plus Shock Assault. Sure you might not get the no overwatch stuff (unless WS end up with a relic). But Suppressors can deny overwatch.
Careful now. The return of Khan Bikers might just mean the resin conversion pack with the power lance/spear thingy. Khan Bikers could very well have exactly one option - that spear - and nothing else.
Careful now. The return of Khan Bikers might just mean the resin conversion pack with the power lance/spear thingy. Khan Bikers could very well have exactly one option - that spear - and nothing else.
As long as it's multi-damage or close to a Relic Blade I wouldn't care too much.
bananathug wrote:Wow, as a marine player this is just crazy.
If the rest of the splat books contain abilities as powerful as this one hello marine meta.
The cash grab aspect of this really bothers me though. Obvious OP rules are obvious and this doesn't even look like GW was trying to put out something balanced.
The splat books are going to be a must buy. The "marine book" is basically a 40$ tax to be able to play your chapter.
DA/SW/BA/DW (me) are majorly boned by this release though. Paying for marine units without new and improved marine rules is so bad for factions (DA/SW/BA) that already struggled to keep up with codex marines. The same for the rest of the marine chapters who don't have their releases yet (at least their salvation is just beyond the horizon...)
As much as I like to see marines improved this release is starting to look bad for the health of the game, a thinly veiled pay to win cash grab and indicative of GW not understanding the game they make (most of my main gripes about 40k).
All this could be changed by what we actually see in the codex so I'm trying my best to hold off on rushing to judgement but from what we've seen so far it's not looking good (no Gman nerf!?!?)...
At this point I'm pretty sure GW knows exactly what kind of game they want to make. Balance is probably only 25%(if that) of GW's total game design. They release stuff(perceived good or not), people buy a bunch, GW messes with stuff, now there's something else.....lather, rinse, repeat.
GW makes the game for people like them; laid back, no purposefully trying to break the game, fielding stuff just cuz cool. that may not jibe with tourney/power gamers wants/needs but it seems to work for the majority.
Careful now. The return of Khan Bikers might just mean the resin conversion pack with the power lance/spear thingy. Khan Bikers could very well have exactly one option - that spear - and nothing else.
or it might simply be "khans on bikes have a power spear: or can replace it with.."
Well that would work, if you could buy the box set anymore. Which you can’t (in the UK at least). So they just aren’t getting any money.
This is also something they’ve done for a long time, it’s not new behaviour. Starter boxes tend to have a unit or two that are only available in that box.
Except generally the kits appear on their own generally ~half a year later so in this fall oblits and venom crawler are very likely to appear on their own.
Looks like chapter master is a unit and not a stratagem again.
Why would you think that? The current Halo states "ULTRAMARINES CAPTAIN or CHAPTER MASTER only." despite the CHAPTER MASTER being a Stratagem.
Just a thought but I think a chapter master should be either a separate unit or an upgrade for a captain that costs points - not CPs. After all, why would an army commanded by a chapter master have fewer CPs to spend than one led by a captain?
That might actually make sense, a captain can devote all his energy and thought to the battle in question,
a chapter master will also have to consider things in in terms of what's good for the chapter (eg well we could win but the losses we'd take will leave us dangerously weakened), and may well be getting messages from bits of the chapter engaged elsewhere looking for advise/orders etc
Honestly, I think with a little bit of a points bump none of these rules are all that bad for the game in terms of power creep. Marines have sat in a place where a whole bunch of their units aren't great, and this rolls around and gives them some serious potential to function in a number of different ways.
Even I have a box of intercessors sitting around waiting for me to do something with them, this looks like I may finally actually have a reason to. Might get them a transport and some friends and call it an army.
Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Deadshot wrote: Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Don't forget there's a reinvisioned demios rhino coming with sisters you'll be able to use in worst case scenario.
Deadshot wrote: Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Don't forget there's a reinvisioned demios rhino coming with sisters you'll be able to use in worst case scenario.
Of course, I'm just suggesting that if OldMarine transports are going the way of the dodo, then OldMarines themselves might not be far behind. Stuff like Land Raiders are big enough to accommodate Primaris but what use are Rhinos or Razorbacks if 80%+ of your troops can't fit inside?
Deadshot wrote: Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:
Well, what I like about the new codex is:
- the return of the “Create your own faction” mindset, which really should have come earlier.
- maybe, finally, we will see the 3 snowflake marines being rolled back into the main marine codex. I mean, seriously, what's the big difference between some death company marines, some wulfen and some dragon claws ( https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Dragons ) ? Should just be a generic “mutated melee marines” choice, available for the Black Dragon players without requiring them to use the DA or SW specific rules… Same with “elite bikers” (should be available to White Scars not just DA) and all that.
What I don't like is:
- More “story advancement” non-sense? Please no stop stop!!!
- Why mix the grey knight baby carrier with the centurion when both are widely mocked and disliked? Why? It looks terrible!
- Primaris are still an unbelievably bad addition to the settings, lorewise, and prepping up stupid stuff about the rubicon being dangerous when every named character will go through it without problem? Baaaaad!
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
Count how many releases marine got since the last Sisters release. If the new Sisters get one tenth of what marines got, and none of the old models are kept, the range will, like, quadruple or something.
Deadshot wrote: Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:
oni wrote:They're probably (finally) consolidating the two into a single product.
Who buys Rhinos? I know I and everyone I know just buys the Razorback. Changing between the two option is literally as easy as swapping the top hatch.
I think you guys are probably right. I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a price bump. GW's financial statements made it clear its their priority to improve the margin on older products... Reboxing and or combining kits accompanied by price increases is how they've done that in the past.
It's not as obvious and in your face as the ultras but their intercessors are landing 3 str 4 ap-1 d2 attacks each, which is a problem for mirror matches and death guard etc. I'm sure there's a unit that will screw up big stuff with the extra damage
It's not as obvious and in your face as the ultras but their intercessors are landing 3 str 4 ap-1 d2 attacks each, which is a problem for mirror matches and death guard etc. I'm sure there's a unit that will screw up big stuff with the extra damage
Extra damage in melee is potentially awesome, for the right unit, but I agree it's not quite as good as firing like you were standing still.
White Scar captain on bike with thunder hammer could be fun. Lots of attacks for 4 damage. And things like power fists in Intercessor squads become about 50% more effective on the charge. They're actually a decent threat now - for their price - with the extra attack as well.
Kor’sarro Khan is also very respectable. Against characters he'll have 6 attacks, rerolling to hit and wound (probably on a 3+), each doing a rerollable D3+1 damage. Presumably he's losing the option of riding a bike though.
The key thing I, a non-White Scar player, take from this is that everyone's getting one of these extra doctrine-related things. Wonder what my Crimson Fist one will be. Hope it's not just vs orks!
Seeing as how both Chapters get special abilities when in certain doctrines, I hope Salamanders get something to help out with flamers and the amount of shots they generate.
On another note, did they mention how Warlord traits will work with named characters now? Before you were forced to use the one unique to your chapter, but now there are multiple traits to choose from.
It's not as obvious and in your face as the ultras but their intercessors are landing 3 str 4 ap-1 d2 attacks each, which is a problem for mirror matches and death guard etc. I'm sure there's a unit that will screw up big stuff with the extra damage
Biker type smash captain...?
Provided the Khan on Bike gets Hammers, we're seeing Slamghatai Khan.
Orodhen wrote: Seeing as how both Chapters get special abilities when in certain doctrines, I hope Salamanders get something to help out with flamers and the amount of shots they generate.
On another note, did they mention how Warlord traits will work with named characters now? Before you were forced to use the one unique to your chapter, but now there are multiple traits to choose from.
Likely each Character will have a fixed Warlord trait - normally works like that?
It's by no means a bad trait and give me hope for how awesome the Iron hand and Imperial Fist one will be. White Scars are going to fall behind IMO just because bikes are not that great and do not look good. They need to be updated with primaris bikes before I'd even consider WS. Their tactic also being highly restricted to said ugly bikers is a problem.
From the preview it seems the dev took into consideration the fact that the white scar is one of the few chapter, along with the space wolves I think, that have a long time relationship with the warp and that know its potential / dangers. I would love if the codex actually dig a little on that.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: It's by no means a bad trait and give me hope for how awesome the Iron hand and Imperial Fist one will be. White Scars are going to fall behind IMO just because bikes are not that great and do not look good. They need to be updated with primaris bikes before I'd even consider WS. Their tactic also being highly restricted to said ugly bikers is a problem.
Are bikes going to still be bad though? From Turn 2 onwards if you change to Tactical doctrine with bolter discipline they'll be pumping out 4 AP -1 bolter shots each as the tactical doctrine will actually give them AP and being Bikes they can RF full range with their bolters. Then from turn 3 onwards if you swap to Assault doctrine you can charge in with them for an additional -1 AP on all their melee weapons, +1 attack and now +1 damage to all their melee weapons as well. Should make them somewhat usable in conjunction no?
I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?
Crimson wrote: I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?
I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one
Crimson wrote: I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?
I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one
This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.
Supplement books aren’t necessary for successor chapters.
Not even for the White Scars themselves actually.
It just adds the extra stratagems, relics, and other goodies.
So if you want any of them to use for your successor chapter. You get it. If not. You don’t.
If you pick your own chapter tactics using main book. You then can’t use the white scar bits I think. As they’d have key words etc.
But if your successor is WS and you like the Scars chapter tactic anyway, then just run them as WS.
Unless you specifically wanted to take some successor tactics you liked..
Crimson wrote: I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?
I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one
This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.
Deadshot wrote: Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:
They did that with every release that happened after the first CA. They are getting reboxed with the new style manuals, new bases where applicable and slightly different boxes.
Crimson wrote: I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?
I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one
This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.
There may be some combos that benefit a specific detachment, or turn some key units up to 11. Bit early to write anything off.
Deadshot wrote: Not sure if its been mentioned already but thought it relevant to the SM rumour thread - Rhinos and Razorbacks have been completely removed from the GW website. Chaos Rhino and all variant tanks still there but it seems like its the beginning of the end for OldMarines
Or they could be getting reboxed and released under a new SKU. They did that with a bunch of CSM units when their last codex came out, including the Rhino. Look at the date in the URL:
They did that with every release that happened after the first CA. They are getting reboxed with the new style manuals, new bases where applicable and slightly different boxes.
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Hi chaps - yes just to confirm, these are just being reboxed and should be back up and ready for purchase within the next couple of days. Thanks!
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Hi chaps - yes just to confirm, these are just being reboxed and should be back up and ready for purchase within the next couple of days. Thanks!
Hmmm.. with 'New and Improved' pricing too, most likely.
I'm most concerned with the fact we didn't see a new Bike unit, Land speeders or even a different weapon option for suppressors. maybe regular bikes and land speeders will have a longer life span than we thought?
Redemption wrote: This image is doing the rounds on Facebook, supposedly from the September White Dwarf. Looks like Marines might be on the menu for a while.
Looks like GW will be letting us know how they plan on handling the DA, BA and SW post Codex SM V2 sooner rather than later.
Redemption wrote: This image is doing the rounds on Facebook, supposedly from the September White Dwarf. Looks like Marines might be on the menu for a while.
Looks like GW will be letting us know how they plan on handling the DA, BA and SW post Codex SM V2 sooner rather than later.
How made would people be if DAs get an Index Astartes in WD as a "supplement" to the Marine Codex that replaces their current Codex? I don't even play Marines and that would kinda tick me off.
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Hi chaps - yes just to confirm, these are just being reboxed and should be back up and ready for purchase within the next couple of days. Thanks!
Hmmm.. with 'New and Improved' pricing too, most likely.
Its higher priced so you know they're keeping up the quality.
Crimson wrote: I still don't understand how these supplements work with the successor chapters. Can I just freely create my own chapter tactic, declare my chapter to be be a White Scar or (*sigh*) Ultramarine successor and gain the associated stratagems and bonuses?
I imagine you can use the UM or WS rules for a sucessor but you can't sue create a chapter. create a chapter owever allows you to custom tailor your CTs and potentially get a moire powerful one
This would mean that the custom chapter stuff is dead on arrival, which would suck.
There may be some combos that benefit a specific detachment, or turn some key units up to 11. Bit early to write anything off.
Right, but the first founding (and maybe proper successors who use their tactics) get all those combos too. Plus more combos, and what amounts to an additional 'chapter tactic' in the form of these doctrine adjustments. Plus special characters, more relics to choose from an etc.
The supplement books are really blatantly pay more for additional options and power.
It's fine to be ok with that, but it's really obvious there are more benefits and more combos when you do.
Redemption wrote: This image is doing the rounds on Facebook, supposedly from the September White Dwarf. Looks like Marines might be on the menu for a while.
Looks like GW will be letting us know how they plan on handling the DA, BA and SW post Codex SM V2 sooner rather than later.
How made would people be if DAs get an Index Astartes in WD as a "supplement" to the Marine Codex that replaces their current Codex?
I don't even play Marines and that would kinda tick me off.
-
why? What difference does it make? What even changes?
If I create a Dark Angel Successor chapter (in my case, the're named the Avengers) can I use both the generic units (such as Centurions) and DA special units (such as Deathwing Knights) or am I limited to the DA list? And what stratagems do I get access to - general space marine or DA only?
If I create a Dark Angel Successor chapter (in my case, the're named the Avengers) can I use both the generic units (such as Centurions) and DA special units (such as Deathwing Knights) or am I limited to the DA list? And what stratagems do I get access to - general space marine or DA only?
You use the Dark Angel rules. So whatever units can have the DARK ANGELS keyword can have your AVENGERS keyword. However, you lose access to all Dark Angel named characters and all but one relic, so why would you bother? Just use the DARK ANGELS keyword.
If I create a Dark Angel Successor chapter (in my case, the're named the Avengers) can I use both the generic units (such as Centurions) and DA special units (such as Deathwing Knights) or am I limited to the DA list? And what stratagems do I get access to - general space marine or DA only?
You use the Dark Angel rules. So whatever units can have the DARK ANGELS keyword can have your AVENGERS keyword. However, you lose access to all Dark Angel named characters and all but one relic, so why would you bother? Just use the DARK ANGELS keyword.
Might change a lot with the future DA V2 codex tho, considering how successor chapter seems to be dealt with in the new supplement codexes...
my guess is the primaris dark angels talked about is a showcase in white dwarf of DA Primaris Minis, a story about DA priamris and maybe we'll see a DA 2.0 codex for september
BrianDavion wrote: my guess is the primaris dark angels talked about is a showcase in white dwarf of DA Primaris Minis, a story about DA priamris and maybe we'll see a DA 2.0 codex for september
The "new" white dwarf supposedly doesn't do any kind of commercial reveal, so I'm more tempted to believe they will just give the DA some temporary rules until they actually get a true codex, similarly to what they did with the crimson fists, and some DA fluff/story because the chapter is in dire need of that with all the things that are up the air at the moment.
A good question to anyone who can math better: With the new shock assault rule, which became better out of the power sword, axe and mace?
My money is on the mace, as +2S -2AP will simply devastate chaff screens. It seems the power sword might be usurped from its position as best as ll round power weapon...
Dr. Mills wrote: A good question to anyone who can math better: With the new shock assault rule, which became better out of the power sword, axe and mace?
My money is on the mace, as +2S -2AP will simply devastate chaff screens. It seems the power sword might be usurped from its position as best as ll round power weapon...
The mace was before allready the better allrounder?
PS is good if you fight heavy infantry. That's it.
And even there it Starts to struggle due to generally beeing Stuck as S3/4
•A Dedicated Transport vehicle for the Adeptus Astartes
•Carries up to 10 Space Marines
•Can instead be assembled as a Razorback, which sacrifices an increased carrying capacity for a turret-mounted heavy weapon
Some preview images are out on the New Zealand website! I have noticed two new things so far:
- Ultramarines Codex Supplement shows Intercessors painted in 1st company colours.
- The Space Marine Codex shows las-fusils and an Eliminator sergeant with instigator bolt carbine. There is also an Eliminator with a new type of pistol.
OrkPlayer137 wrote: Some preview images are out on the New Zealand website! I have noticed two new things so far: - Ultramarines Codex Supplement shows Intercessors painted in 1st company colours. - The Space Marine Codex shows las-fusils and an Eliminator sergeant with instigator bolt carbine. There is also an Eliminator with a new type of pistol.
Nice try, but logic and actual arguments will never win with a FUD and nonsense thrown from around the corner, no matter how baseless and wrong it is.
It's just sad to see people buy into this idiotic scare asking here if their armies will be squatted, when if anything 2/3 of new rules works much better for oldmarines...
I think it’s a good change. Also, I could be wrong, but the wording seems to have changed for hit rolls. Says you can re-roll hit rolls in general, rather than just failed hit rolls, like Abaddon. So can re-roll the hit rolls that would be modified into a miss.
Considering I can't see any of the new units on the NZ pre-order and just the books, dice etc, I assume they are coming later then alas? Or could the NZ site just not be fully updated?
Dunno Alpha, but Irbis can't help but try and correct people whenever he makes a post, which makes it amusing how often he's wrong.
I mean, given that this week alone they are re-releasing the Rhino, Razorback and Predator - all things that were "already on sale" - makes me wonder if the "logic and actual arguments" he talks about are things he actually understands, or words he heard once and is just repeating because he thinks they sounded smart. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also, I could be wrong, but the wording seems to have changed for hit rolls. Says you can re-roll hit rolls in general, rather than just failed hit rolls, like Abaddon. So can re-roll the hit rolls that would be modified into a miss.
GenRifDrake wrote: Considering I can't see any of the new units on the NZ pre-order and just the books, dice etc, I assume they are coming later then alas? Or could the NZ site just not be fully updated?
We knew Sunday that this is what was going on pre-order this weekend.
The Eliminators are very sexy models. Shame about the 3 whole poses, and the fact that they'll no doubt be astronomically priced for 3 whole minis, but they still look ace.
Cawl's workshop was obviously in a corner of the stubber factory. Whenever he had a prototype that had some free space, he just went to the production line and snagged a few stubbers to use...
Crazyterran wrote: it's probably because Stubbers look cool on the tops of tanks.
Not really marine tanks. Maybe it’s because I’m used to the amazing absurdity of a pintle mounted heavy bolter. I suppose that if Knights Make use of stubbers vehicles might as well.
GenRifDrake wrote: Considering I can't see any of the new units on the NZ pre-order and just the books, dice etc, I assume they are coming later then alas? Or could the NZ site just not be fully updated?
Nope, just books, cards, dice (and a couple other gubbins) and special characters (and the non-special LT) this week... as announced in last Sundays standard pre-order article.
DS Turn 1 Pods... I... I don't know how to feel about that as a GSC player.
It'll make them more attractive to use depending on how expensive they are. Of course, this is considering if they're able to DS anywhere else on the board aside from the deployment zone.
Carnikang wrote: DS Turn 1 Pods... I... I don't know how to feel about that as a GSC player.
It'll make them more attractive to use depending on how expensive they are. Of course, this is considering if they're able to DS anywhere else on the board aside from the deployment zone.
Dont do too much hand wringing. Drop pods at current price and current rules are the defacto worst vehicle in the game. At a minimum they needed their DECADE spanning rule back.
Yeah, if drop pods stay limited to infantry units other than primaris/terminator/centurion/jump-pack units, then I wouldn't mind seeing how it plays out, since those exceptions seem to be the biggest infantry threats for this update.
next week, we can expect the rest of the month to be space marine releases. my guess is next week we get pre-orders for the vanguard stuff, the weak after that 2 more codex supplements and characters. then another 2 supplements
next week, we can expect the rest of the month to be space marine releases. my guess is next week we get pre-orders for the vanguard stuff, the weak after that 2 more codex supplements and characters. then another 2 supplements
Rogerio134134 778663 10532186 wrote:
Don't forget the dark angels!
Imagine getting raven wing Primaris...
I'm not expecting new DA models so soon. I think they'll drop the remaining new marine units & supplements this month then move onto some of the new AoS models in Sept.
The WD rules will be like the Crimson Fists earlier this year, a preview for a later codex or supplement. Something like veteran Primaris with the Deathwing keyword, or new stratagems.
they mention primaris dark angels, but that could just be an indepth index astartes article on how primaris are within the dark angels. the most I'd expect to see is a updated codex and a primaris Azeral.
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
but but GW is trying to dischourage us from taking old marines! how can this be!
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
The regular or the executioner or both?
Wait a tac marines are now cheaper then csm?
Wtf.
expect that to be changed when they get around to adjusting CSMs next
Sergeant Chronus can now go into any vehicle with the appropriate keyword, not just specific named vehicles like before. So he can now go in many of the Forgeworld vehicles or the Terminus Ultra from the Index!
The Ultramarines Chapter Ancient has a 9" radius instead of 6" for the Company Ancient. I think that could be combined with the relic to go to 12" total.
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
The regular or the executioner or both?
Wait a tac marines are now cheaper then csm?
Wtf.
Emperor protects. Guardsmen and marines alike are rewarded for their loyalty.
BrianDavion wrote: but but GW is trying to dischourage us from taking old marines! how can this be!
GW would probably be glad if you never bought another old marine kit, but few companies would want to antagonize a significant portion of their existing user base by making the old product artificially substandard.
As long as Primaris kits as generally better than old marine kits, GW gets what it wants.
Ice_can wrote: Tac's now 12 points according to winter's
wow all those buffs AND points drops!?
Everything but the repulsor stayed the same or got points reductions mostly 1 point here or their with the exception of Grav Cannons which are down 8 points.
The repulsor got +30 points, I sort of feel bad for the genuine primaris player but I love the way this is going to make the squat OG marine guys rage.
The regular or the executioner or both?
Wait a tac marines are now cheaper then csm?
Wtf.
Emperor protects. Guardsmen and marines alike are rewarded for their loyalty.
Look we already knew that no one in the rules writing department talks to each other or reads each other's work. This can't be that surprising. If I ever visit the GW offices I wouldn't be surprised to find that each office is on a different floor and they all have personal elevators to get to their private offices.
Look we already knew that no one in the rules writing department talks to each other or reads each other's work. This can't be that surprising. If I ever visit the GW offices I wouldn't be surprised to find that each office is on a different floor and they all have personal elevators to get to their private offices.
Look we already knew that no one in the rules writing department talks to each other or reads each other's work. This can't be that surprising. If I ever visit the GW offices I wouldn't be surprised to find that each office is on a different floor and they all have personal elevators to get to their private offices.
See, that's what get's me. SM get the propper rework.
Look we already knew that no one in the rules writing department talks to each other or reads each other's work. This can't be that surprising. If I ever visit the GW offices I wouldn't be surprised to find that each office is on a different floor and they all have personal elevators to get to their private offices.
See, that's what get's me. SM get the propper rework.
We get the intern with no fething clue.
Who???
We see everything marines get, so next will be a poxy xenos
I mean we are trying to wipe our hands but f me they stick....
So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
Red Corsair wrote: So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
like 8th at start almost, true i didnt see many survivable things just mass killing, mass killing, mass killing, which is why I went DW at start can survive, and kill.
Thing with marines is they die, a lot, didnt look at to much but hopefully fixed? There problem was not offensive, but how long survive for points, is not fixed but atleast they kill more...
Red Corsair wrote: So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
like 8th at start almost, true i didnt see many survivable things just mass killing, mass killing, mass killing, which is why I went DW at start can survive, and kill.
Thing with marines is they die, a lot, didnt look at to much but hopefully fixed? There problem was not offensive, but how long survive for points, is not fixed but atleast they kill more...
Woot kill more things latlh HoH ...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Marines need to survive more not die easier to be viable, but what do I know,
Red Corsair wrote: So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
like 8th at start almost, true i didnt see many survivable things just mass killing, mass killing, mass killing, which is why I went DW at start can survive, and kill.
Thing with marines is they die, a lot, didnt look at to much but hopefully fixed? There problem was not offensive, but how long survive for points, is not fixed but atleast they kill more...
Woot kill more things latlh HoH ...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Marines need to survive more not die easier to be viable, but what do I know,
For that to work you could look at Death guard.
Oh wat Plague marines went down twice allready and were not really picked.
Red Corsair wrote: So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
like 8th at start almost, true i didnt see many survivable things just mass killing, mass killing, mass killing, which is why I went DW at start can survive, and kill.
Thing with marines is they die, a lot, didnt look at to much but hopefully fixed? There problem was not offensive, but how long survive for points, is not fixed but atleast they kill more...
Woot kill more things latlh HoH ...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Marines need to survive more not die easier to be viable, but what do I know,
Play Deathguard if you want durable marines.
These guys are now real dangerous. Can't kill them if you're dead
Red Corsair wrote: So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
like 8th at start almost, true i didnt see many survivable things just mass killing, mass killing, mass killing, which is why I went DW at start can survive, and kill.
Thing with marines is they die, a lot, didnt look at to much but hopefully fixed? There problem was not offensive, but how long survive for points, is not fixed but atleast they kill more...
Woot kill more things latlh HoH ...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Marines need to survive more not die easier to be viable, but what do I know,
For that to work you could look at Death guard.
Oh wat Plague marines went down twice allready and were not really picked.
Probably because they're still only have 1 dinky attack and their Bolters aren't counted as plague weapons for whatever forsaken reason.
Red Corsair wrote: So in a game already over bloated, too lethal, and way to front loaded on the first turn or so, they decide to triple the rules (not even counting the splat books lol) and further reduce points.
This book should highlight how incapable or unwilling GW is to try to make the game healthy. Old habits die hard.
Drop points, make the game more lethal. Now you get to buy double the guys to play the same points in the same time! Sucks for that guy who painstakingly built and painted 80 guardsmen, they get evaporated in a phase lol.
All the books going forward will follow this same recipe. Heck, I bet books like blood angels even have splat books for flesh tearers etc.
But when eldar or admech get an update like this, the game really will be a 50/50 coin flip for first turn lol.
like 8th at start almost, true i didnt see many survivable things just mass killing, mass killing, mass killing, which is why I went DW at start can survive, and kill.
Thing with marines is they die, a lot, didnt look at to much but hopefully fixed? There problem was not offensive, but how long survive for points, is not fixed but atleast they kill more...
The problem WAS entirely offensive. They're more survivable if you looked at the math compared to previous editions. The issue became that even Gaunts get saves to your basic Bolter.
casvalremdeikun wrote: After watching the GMG reviews of the Codex, it looks like Intercessor Sergeants can take a Thunder Hammer. Not bad!
I literally do not get this. Why the feth is the Intercessor sergeant the only Primaris model that is allowed to have decent gear options? Not other sergeants, not the characters. It is really frustrating. Marines got a lot of buffs, but they din't get the one thing I wanted the most, which was to be able to reasonably equip my Primaris characters.
So is there already a glaring misprint in the Ultramarines supplement?
The warlord traits for Guilliman and Calgar seem reversed.
Per the new supplement, Calgar has Adept of the Codex (ie get CP’s back) and Guilliman has Nobility Made Manifest (ie units within 6” can heroically intervene).
Dudeface wrote: So based on this wording the doctrines look to be mono faction only. Linked from wildweasel over at b&c.
This. I do not play marines, but more ideas like this to benefit mono-codex lists would be great, at the moment there is no benefit to taking mono-faction lists really.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
oni wrote: So is there already a glaring misprint in the Ultramarines supplement?
The warlord traits for Guilliman and Calgar seem reversed.
Per the new supplement, Calgar has Adept of the Codex (ie get CP’s back) and Guilliman has Nobility Made Manifest (ie honour guard within 6” can heroically intervene).
There’s some cool stuff and some seemingly dumb stuff in this release. +3” range flamers huh? Mhm. Drop pods coming in first turn to let these flamers turn 1 wreck huh? Mhm. It’s not like alpha strike is heinous already...
This is potentially okay though if this is thought out for a 8.5/9th Ed, and they put Kill Team style activation in. That’d be nice.
Also, I’m looking forward to a Blood Angels update with some of these changes looking pretty awesome, and I look forward to getting my own versions.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also with all the datasheets being available to all Chapters as it suggests, that means you Dark Angels players can finally enjoy 4++ Centurions.
I guess DAs/BAs/SWs will become supplements like in 3rd edition. That's fine as long as we don't get the situation from 4th where SW still only had that 3rd ed. Supplement and didn't get the goodies from the new SM dex.
Doesnt seem a problem... Moondraken is now obviously a relic.... no Whitescare bikers any where to be sceen...
