All Gravis went up to three wounds (and Agressors to 3 attacks) with no points change. That's huge, I'm going to field at least 3 bolter/plasma Inceptors + 3 boltstorm Agressors.
Plus, Chaplains seem to pair nicely with Boltstorm Agressors. +1 to wound prayer, +1 to hit prayer, +2 to charge prayer... It's a shame none of them gives a defensive boost.
But the half-damage Stratagem (for 1 CP) is also a godsend for them.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: With the +2" charge distance thingie from Chaplains BT are back in business. 7" charges with 'Ere We Go from Deep Strike.
Yay, another thing stolen (and improved) from orks. Why bother playing any other faction when marines kan do everything?
And the Orks stole it and improved it from Black Templars in the first place. Zero sympathy for you guys in that department.
Excactly when could Black templar deep strike and charge?
'Ere We Go is the old BT Chapter Tactic except better. Complaining that BT get to "steal" this capacity when Orks did the same thing is rank hypocricsy.
Aggressors got a massive boost. It's honestly scary what they will be able to do. Thank goodness they can't ride in the cheap transports. Glad I have 12 of the guys because they're gonna see a lot of use. One block of six can be heavily boosted and have that buff to make them unable to be wounded on a 1,2,3 will be massive levels of durability on a t5 3 wound platform.
DanielFM wrote: All Gravis went up to three wounds (and Agressors to 3 attacks) with no points change. That's huge, I'm going to field at least 3 bolter/plasma Inceptors + 3 boltstorm Agressors.
Plus, Chaplains seem to pair nicely with Boltstorm Agressors. +1 to wound prayer, +1 to hit prayer, +2 to charge prayer... It's a shame none of them gives a defensive boost.
But the half-damage Stratagem (for 1 CP) is also a godsend for them.
Would have to have multiple chaplains, as a Chaplain can only chant one at a time.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: With the +2" charge distance thingie from Chaplains BT are back in business. 7" charges with 'Ere We Go from Deep Strike.
Yay, another thing stolen (and improved) from orks. Why bother playing any other faction when marines kan do everything?
And the Orks stole it and improved it from Black Templars in the first place. Zero sympathy for you guys in that department.
Excactly when could Black templar deep strike and charge?
'Ere We Go is the old BT Chapter Tactic except better. Complaining that BT get to "steal" this capacity when Orks did the same thing is rank hypocricsy.
I asked when.
Not what you think about his position.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: With the +2" charge distance thingie from Chaplains BT are back in business. 7" charges with 'Ere We Go from Deep Strike.
Yay, another thing stolen (and improved) from orks. Why bother playing any other faction when marines kan do everything?
And the Orks stole it and improved it from Black Templars in the first place. Zero sympathy for you guys in that department.
Excactly when could Black templar deep strike and charge?
'Ere We Go is the old BT Chapter Tactic except better. Complaining that BT get to "steal" this capacity when Orks did the same thing is rank hypocricsy.
I asked when.
Not what you think about his position.
Since the current Marine Codex was released, then.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: With the +2" charge distance thingie from Chaplains BT are back in business. 7" charges with 'Ere We Go from Deep Strike.
Yay, another thing stolen (and improved) from orks. Why bother playing any other faction when marines kan do everything?
And the Orks stole it and improved it from Black Templars in the first place. Zero sympathy for you guys in that department.
Excactly when could Black templar deep strike and charge?
'Ere We Go is the old BT Chapter Tactic except better. Complaining that BT get to "steal" this capacity when Orks did the same thing is rank hypocricsy.
I asked when.
Not what you think about his position.
Since the current Marine Codex was released, then.
So 8th edition.
Not 7th no nothing.
So your argument is, questionable?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: With the +2" charge distance thingie from Chaplains BT are back in business. 7" charges with 'Ere We Go from Deep Strike.
Yay, another thing stolen (and improved) from orks. Why bother playing any other faction when marines kan do everything?
And the Orks stole it and improved it from Black Templars in the first place. Zero sympathy for you guys in that department.
Excactly when could Black templar deep strike and charge?
'Ere We Go is the old BT Chapter Tactic except better. Complaining that BT get to "steal" this capacity when Orks did the same thing is rank hypocricsy.
I asked when.
Not what you think about his position.
Since the current Marine Codex was released, then.
So 8th edition.
Not 7th no nothing.
So your argument is, questionable?
The bickering isn't really relevant either.
Back to SM stuff.
Gravis Cap got the buffs too, which is awesomesauce.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: With the +2" charge distance thingie from Chaplains BT are back in business. 7" charges with 'Ere We Go from Deep Strike.
Yay, another thing stolen (and improved) from orks. Why bother playing any other faction when marines kan do everything?
And the Orks stole it and improved it from Black Templars in the first place. Zero sympathy for you guys in that department.
Excactly when could Black templar deep strike and charge?
'Ere We Go is the old BT Chapter Tactic except better. Complaining that BT get to "steal" this capacity when Orks did the same thing is rank hypocricsy.
I asked when.
Not what you think about his position.
Since the current Marine Codex was released, then.
So 8th edition.
Not 7th no nothing.
So your argument is, questionable?
How is my argument "questionable". The complaint was that Black Templars had somehow "stolen" Orks' ability to do Deep Strike charges reliably. The thing is Orks already stole that from Black Templars in the first place anyway. I think that argument is bunk (you don't "steal" rerolls to charge ranges and + to charge distance in 8th edition, a bunch of stuff has it), but even if I didn't reject the premise the argument is bunk.
DanielFM wrote: All Gravis went up to three wounds (and Agressors to 3 attacks) with no points change. That's huge, I'm going to field at least 3 bolter/plasma Inceptors + 3 boltstorm Agressors.
Plus, Chaplains seem to pair nicely with Boltstorm Agressors. +1 to wound prayer, +1 to hit prayer, +2 to charge prayer... It's a shame none of them gives a defensive boost.
But the half-damage Stratagem (for 1 CP) is also a godsend for them.
Would have to have multiple chaplains, as a Chaplain can only chant one at a time.
I just listed different interesting options. Not suggesting they would be up simultaneously.
So, Sternguard with a Chaplain and Tactical Doctrine can now have AP-3 30" bolters with Bolter Discipline that wound on 2+ against T4 and 4+ against T8 if you pop their stratagem. That's pretty juicy.
Not quite, the lack of invulnerable save, varied weapon load-out including dedicated Close Combat load-out, not carrying heavy weapons on a single arm with a close combat weapon on the other and the inability to deep strike means they are not terminator replacements yet. I personally think they will update terminators personally to primaris size and aggressors will be more like a centurion.
Terminators are far too iconic to be squatted, I could be wrong but it is so prevalent throughout the law, i don’t think it will be sacked off for gravis armour.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: So, Sternguard with a Chaplain and Tactical Doctrine can now have AP-3 30" bolters with Bolter Discipline that wound on 2+ against T4 and 4+ against T8 if you pop their stratagem. That's pretty juicy.
Make them Crimson Fists or Imperial Fists for those sweet sweet 6s for additional hits.
Out of curiosity, how many points is a Rhino now? Given how much more durable the new Impulsor thingy is, 70+ points for a tin box in relation seems a tad silly.
Sherrypie wrote: Out of curiosity, how many points is a Rhino now? Given how much more durable the new Impulsor thingy is, 70+ points for a tin box in relation seems a tad silly.
93pts gets you a 4++ on the Impulsor, on top of the -2" to enemy charges. As a screening unit they're arguably better than the old stuff.
so looking at a preview of the "make your own chapter tactics" and it looks like blood ravens was a quiet preview of the make your own.
edit: ohh the vanguard warlord traits made the codex. which is nice, I wasn't expecting that as the CSM ones didn't make theirs. (god every bit of detail on this codex makes it clear how LAZY the 2.0 chaos dex was)
godardc wrote: Not even a points drop ? :( Speaking about Blood Raven, did they make it in the codex or should we still use the WD ?
If you want to use the BLOOD RAVENS keyword, or any of the named Characters, or any of the relics, etc, you have to use the White Dwarf rules. If you want to be the BLUD RAEVENS you can make your own successor chapter just fine.
Sherrypie wrote: Out of curiosity, how many points is a Rhino now? Given how much more durable the new Impulsor thingy is, 70+ points for a tin box in relation seems a tad silly.
93pts gets you a 4++ on the Impulsor, on top of the -2" to enemy charges. As a screening unit they're arguably better than the old stuff.
edit: I believe the Rhino is 65pts now
Ok, so you can get a fast, resilient, effective at its job transport and a Redemptor for dakka (all for 248 points) or a single Repulsor for quite a bit more. I think the latter is pretty much defunct.
godardc wrote: Not even a points drop ? :(
Speaking about Blood Raven, did they make it in the codex or should we still use the WD ?
If you want to use the BLOOD RAVENS keyword, or any of the named Characters, or any of the relics, etc, you have to use the White Dwarf rules. If you want to be the BLUD RAEVENS you can make your own successor chapter just fine.
Blood ravens are not in the codex, but their chapter tactics can be recreated via the "Create a chapter" rules and the rules specificly say blood raven players don't have to use the tactics involved and can instead "use one that you feel best suits the chapter" so you can basicly use the create a chapter rules for blood ravens and then get access to the relic and chief librarian strat.
thats actually pretty good all considered
edit: and yeah literally the ONLY thing blood ravens get unique to them is the chief librarian strat, unless the review I'm reading just missed it
mightymconeshot wrote: So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?
you're going to need the new one. GW has, wisely abandoned the idea of "well you won't 100% need this new codex" so that they can give us a good codex rather then a lazy patch job.
mightymconeshot wrote: So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?
If you have a variant chapter book like DA,BA, or SW, they're coming out with a pdf to add some of the new primaris units though I suspect they'll be replaced in the next year or two as well. If you've got the 2017 vanilla marine codex then this is a full on replacement and you have a two year old doorstop or drink tray unfortunately.
mightymconeshot wrote: So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?
If you have a variant chapter book like DA,BA, or SW, they're coming out with a pdf to add some of the new primaris units though I suspect they'll be replaced in the next year or two as well. If you've got the 2017 vanilla marine codex then this is a full on replacement and you have a two year old doorstop or drink tray unfortunately.
Well, and also White Dwarf apparently.
Gotta be awkward to juggle, say, "old" Space Wolves Codex (8 months now?), a pdf, new Marines Codex, probably some White Dwarf stuff and a few unit sheets from the miniature boxes until GW get's around to compile it into a 2.0 Space Wolves Codex, probably about 3 weeks before they bring out Space Marines 3.0 or simply 9th Edition.
Intercessor sergeants can now have thunder hammers. Assault bolters really are 3 shots now and still only 1 point. Stalkers still seem to be free – but look even more stupid now eliminators exist.
The Vigilus stratagems to let the various different bolt rifles fire at RF2, auto hit at close range, or snipe characters, are all in there. They work on any intercessors – not just veterans. They cost 2CPs though, or 3 to let stalkers shoot characters. You can make squads into veterans too, at 1 CP or 2 for squads of 6+. And there’s one to let a unit fire as if it was standing still.
Chaplains might be worth taking. They’re cheap and they now do something kind of new. And they aren’t terrible at fighting.
Reivers are unchanged. Seriously. Aggressors and inceptors both got an extra wound and aggressors have 3 attacks, so they are far better. Poor reivers.
Burning blade is now D2, which makes it vastly better – and thereby makes a lot of Primaris guys who can only have a power sword better. A Primaris captain with the burning blade is nasty, and even a lieutenant with one is decent.
Incursor is 19. Infiltrator 22. Intercessor still 17. I can actually see a strong case for taking Incursors instead of infiltrators. They lose the 12” deep strike bubble but they still get to deploy forward, and cost 3ppm less.
Impulsor 75. The guns for this are kind of lame but it can have a 4++, so it will. I thought maybe people would be able to fire out but they can’t. I expect to see this thing’s points go up, because right now it’s very low in my opinion. Can't transport aggressors though, which is a big deal. No catapulting flamer guys miles forward.
Invictor 90 – but wargear adds a lot to that I think. I think the fist might be free but you’ve got the two ironhail stubbers, heavy bolter, frag launcher and the main gun to pay for. Blurry so I couldn’t see that price. That said, these guys look fantastic to me – loads of dakka (15+D6 shots) on a thing that infiltrates and has a 10” move. Fantastic and well worth the ~140-150 that I think it’ll cost.
There’s a fun strat for if a land raider or repulsor dies. It can explode or fire a gun with its undamaged BS. Revenge!
I’m kind of amazed they didn’t fix reivers, given how many other toys they gave us. That unit remains absolute trash tier. It's not really a problem because I don't like them anyway, but it's a bit lame.
Intercessor sergeants can now have thunder hammers. Assault bolters really are 3 shots now and still only 1 point. Stalkers still seem to be free – but look even more stupid now eliminators exist.
The Vigilus stratagems to let the various different bolt rifles fire at RF2, auto hit at close range, or snipe characters, are all in there. They work on any intercessors – not just veterans. They cost 2CPs though, or 3 to let stalkers shoot characters. You can make squads into veterans too, at 1 CP or 2 for squads of 6+. And there’s one to let a unit fire as if it was standing still.
Chaplains might be worth taking. They’re cheap and they now do something kind of new. And they aren’t terrible at fighting.
Reivers are unchanged. Seriously. Aggressors and inceptors both got an extra wound and aggressors have 3 attacks, so they are far better. Poor reivers.
Burning blade is now D2, which makes it vastly better – and thereby makes a lot of Primaris guys who can only have a power sword better. A Primaris captain with the burning blade is nasty, and even a lieutenant with one is decent.
Incursor is 19. Infiltrator 22. Intercessor still 17. I can actually see a strong case for taking Incursors instead of infiltrators. They lose the 12” deep strike bubble but they still get to deploy forward, and cost 3ppm less.
Impulsor 75. The guns for this are kind of lame but it can have a 4++, so it will. I thought maybe people would be able to fire out but they can’t. I expect to see this thing’s points go up, because right now it’s very low in my opinion. Can't transport aggressors though, which is a big deal. No catapulting flamer guys miles forward.
Invictor 90 – but wargear adds a lot to that I think. I think the fist might be free but you’ve got the two ironhail stubbers, heavy bolter, frag launcher and the main gun to pay for. Blurry so I couldn’t see that price. That said, these guys look fantastic to me – loads of dakka (15+D6 shots) on a thing that infiltrates and has a 10” move. Fantastic and well worth the ~140-150 that I think it’ll cost.
There’s a fun strat for if a land raider or repulsor dies. It can explode or fire a gun with its undamaged BS. Revenge!
I’m kind of amazed they didn’t fix reivers, given how many other toys they gave us. That unit remains absolute trash tier. It's not really a problem because I don't like them anyway, but it's a bit lame.
What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.
What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.
The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.
he can get 5 attacks gaining additional hits wiuth every roll or 6. that's not BAD. especially as it can get AP -1 in the assault doctrine. it's not great no but if you're advancing him up with reivers you're proably not using him in melee vs a Knight.
What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.
The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.
he can get 5 attacks gaining additional hits wiuth every roll or 6. that's not BAD. especially as it can get AP -1 in the assault doctrine. it's not great no but if you're advancing him up with reivers you're proably not using him in melee vs a Knight.
And with him and Reivers, you are stacking at least -2 ld. Add in a Phobos librarian with the negative leadership power and you are at -3 ld. Don’t know how many times it will stack, but it does.
he can get 5 attacks gaining additional hits wiuth every roll or 6. that's not BAD. especially as it can get AP -1 in the assault doctrine. it's not great no but if you're advancing him up with reivers you're proably not using him in melee vs a Knight.
It's bad. An intercessor sergeant outperforms him. For a dedicated combat character that is pathetic.
What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.
The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.
Didn't the reiver carbine also go up to assault 3 to match the auto bolt rifle. I think it did. That's a lot of dakka to deepstrike in turn 2 with tactical doctrine.
I think the soldier blade ultramarine relic can be used on the phobos lieutenants now too since they get a combat knife.
Didn't the reiver carbine also go up to assault 3 to match the auto bolt rifle. I think it did. That's a lot of dakka to deepstrike in turn 2 with tactical doctrine.
If it did I haven't seen any review mentioning it.
I think the soldier blade ultramarine relic can be used on the phobos lieutenants now too since they get a combat knife.
Yes, that is a good relic, but I'm super salty that it is not a generic one as it it is basically required for making that character functional and it is given to a chapter whose forte traditionally is not close combat.
Also he's not a dedicated close combat char, he's a support character. gone are the days when space marine characters where designed to be one man engines of destruction. they they're designed more as "buff bots"
BrianDavion wrote: Also he's not a dedicated close combat char, he's a support character. gone are the days when space marine characters where designed to be one man engines of destruction. they they're designed more as "buff bots"
Then why is there a knife and pistol loadout? What's the point? And why can the normal Primaris lieutenant who is not a terror warrior with an ability to drop close to the enemy have a power sword? Why can sergeant of a shooty Intercessor squad?
Yes, that is a good relic, but I'm super salty that it is not a generic one as it it is basically required for making that character functional and it is given to a chapter whose forte traditionally is not close combat.
I'm sure some of the other chapters will get combat knife relics in their supplements, and those that don't can use pistol relics.
assuming nothing from VD has changed it's +1 to attacks and leadership, they also gain the veteran keyword.
it's pretty solid, you'll have intercessors with 4 attacks each on the charge.
Thanks. That sounds pretty traditional if carried over (not sure what VD is as I've been pretty hands off this edition). I was hoping that maybe it opened up some extra wargear options though.
Yes, that is a good relic, but I'm super salty that it is not a generic one as it it is basically required for making that character functional and it is given to a chapter whose forte traditionally is not close combat.
I'm sure some of the other chapters will get combat knife relics in their supplements, and those that don't can use pistol relics.
ultramariens did, Soldier's blade can replace a combat knife the problem is the phobos leuiteant doesn't have a combat knfie, he has a "close combat weapon" granted this to my mind seems something that should be FAQed
BrianDavion wrote: ultramariens did, Soldier's blade can replace a combat knife the problem is the phobos leuiteant doesn't have a combat knfie, he has a "close combat weapon" granted this to my mind seems something that should be FAQed
Does anyone else think that Aggressors are slightly comedic at this point? Especially for Ultramarines. I like a lot of stuff in this book, but they’re just a hilarious oversight.
BrianDavion wrote: ultramariens did, Soldier's blade can replace a combat knife the problem is the phobos leuiteant doesn't have a combat knfie, he has a "close combat weapon" granted this to my mind seems something that should be FAQed
Already changed in new codex.
if thats the case then Ultramarines can make the Phobos Lt damn good.
Heres a bat rep against necrons from TTT guys using new marine rules and a little bit of a preview for those that want to see the new rules in action.. Make of that what you will.
For me seeing what a very average marine list can do now springs one word to mind: Obnoxious!
Heres a bat rep against necrons from TTT guys using new marine rules and a little bit of a preview for those that want to see the new rules in action.. Make of that what you will.
For me seeing what a very average marine list can do now springs one word to mind: Obnoxious!
Heres a bat rep against necrons from TTT guys using new marine rules and a little bit of a preview for those that want to see the new rules in action.. Make of that what you will.
For me seeing what a very average marine list can do now springs one word to mind: Obnoxious!
Rather glaring and impactful errors in that one unfortunately. Plus Necrons.
I’m really curious about the custom chapter tactics. Finally gives hope to create some fluffy rules for the Relictors.
Also hoping we finally see some generic Primaris chapter master and honor guard.
From the start there were full primaris chapters created and enough times passed that this should be a normal thing..
If it did I haven't seen any review mentioning it.
Because it didn't change, still assault 2.
Kinda weird.
That is weird. Running auto intercessors in a impulsor is probably smarter then.
Yeah - Reivers as a bully unit with the extra attack, Chaplain support, and the bonus AP during Assault Doctrine might be decent, but I'm not really inclined to give it a shot.
If it did I haven't seen any review mentioning it.
Because it didn't change, still assault 2.
Kinda weird.
That is weird. Running auto intercessors in a impulsor is probably smarter then.
Yeah - Reivers as a bully unit with the extra attack, Chaplain support, and the bonus AP during Assault Doctrine might be decent, but I'm not really inclined to give it a shot.
Make a custom chapter with Hungry for Battle and Fearsome Aspect. +1 to advance and charge and -1 ld while in 3”, respectively. Take a Phobos lieutenant, give him a hero of the chapter warlord trait (master of the vanguard for +1 to advance and charge)
With two units of Reivers, that’s what? -4 ld and +2 to advance and charge? Has anyone seen the max of how much just Terror Troops stacks now? Add a Phobos Librarian for another -1 leadership by using Hallucination.
I haven’t run the math, but I still think carbines are better than knives, though the different phases may change this. Heavy bolt pistols are -2 AP in the assault phase, right?
I'd like to point out that the restriction on half of your army max being in reserve is also part of the Tactical Reserves rule. That the Drop-pod now ignores. Sorry if already pointed out. I did not read every single post.
Can't wait for the absolutely wild over reactions to the new book. It happens every single release, I remember when GSC were released and everyone lost their minds bit I've never seen them actually used before.
Justyn wrote: I'd like to point out that the restriction on half of your army max being in reserve is also part of the Tactical Reserves rule. That the Drop-pod now ignores. Sorry if already pointed out. I did not read every single post.
Back to the good ol'days of Null deploy drop-pods?
Nah, they'll be a scout squad hidden somewhere.
I joke. While I have some doubts about them not making them better, I don't think they changed the price on them. I know I might see a few, since it looks like there will be a resurgence of SM players coming out of hibernation in my area.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Can't wait for the absolutely wild over reactions to the new book. It happens every single release, I remember when GSC were released and everyone lost their minds bit I've never seen them actually used before.
I'm a little sad since I was playing around with a guilliman + aggressors list for a few weeks now, and now Aggressors, especially UM ones, are now rather bonkers.
It will be fun to see what some of the local SM players come up with though. Hopefully some changes from castle devastator + officers.
It's pretty amazing with all these upgrades that reivers still manage to be trash. Their grenades still don't so anything due to range, their CC is on par with intercessors who are troops with better guns and their shooting is on par with scouts who are cheaper.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Can't wait for the absolutely wild over reactions to the new book. It happens every single release, I remember when GSC were released and everyone lost their minds bit I've never seen them actually used before.
Rules in a vacuum always look like either pure gold or pure crap. No one ever considers what other armies can have to counter them. I still remember when Custodes first got their codex and some people said they would break the game. LOL
there's also the fact that poeople comment before seeing the points cost. Custodes is a good example. powerful true, but also pointed highly
So BOLS has a good look at the imuplsor datasheet, and the 4++ invul save, missle launcher etc are all, per RAW OPTIONAL. and you can run it with just a pair of storm bolters. So you can run the transport for as cheap as 79 points.
The impulsor can’t carry Gravis guys. As such it’s an excellent transport for hellblasters, but nobody else - because nothing much else needs one.
It’s cheap but it’s not free. A 97 point vehicle with a 4++ but only armed with two storm bolters still isn’t much of a threat to anyone. It’s definitely useful but far from game breaking.
The invictor is pretty cool though. Lots of dakka and awesome deployment options, with a 10” move. Apparently it clocks in around 131 points with all its gear, which is pretty good. I’m sure they’ll die, but they have to be dealt with, taking the heat off other stuff.
Reivers still seem bad at 16 points. I guess there’s a case for a unit to deep strike onto objectives, and at 90 points for that they aren’t awful - just a big sad. Intercessors are just so much better. The new sneaky troops are vastly better at the reivers’ actual job, thanks to forward deployment, decent guns and fancy knives.
In future I think I might well take a primaris lieutenant with the burning blade. It makes him a pretty serious melee threat, where now he’s basically irrelevant.
A chaplain is looking like maybe a better third hq than a librarian. Not sure on this one. I’m not blown away by the litanies to be honest, but he’s pretty cheap.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Can't wait for the absolutely wild over reactions to the new book. It happens every single release, I remember when GSC were released and everyone lost their minds bit I've never seen them actually used before.
Rules in a vacuum always look like either pure gold or pure crap. No one ever considers what other armies can have to counter them. I still remember when Custodes first got their codex and some people said they would break the game. LOL
Untill knights came with bigger cheese custodians were constant sight in top armies...so bad example from you
Rogerio134134 wrote: Can't wait for the absolutely wild over reactions to the new book. It happens every single release, I remember when GSC were released and everyone lost their minds bit I've never seen them actually used before.
Rules in a vacuum always look like either pure gold or pure crap. No one ever considers what other armies can have to counter them. I still remember when Custodes first got their codex and some people said they would break the game. LOL
Untill knights came with bigger cheese custodians were constant sight in top armies...so bad example from you
And the Arms races wheels turn and turn and turn.
Until we don't know the price of 12" in young mens lives.
bullyboy wrote: Can we have confirmation that character THs are really 40pts? Surely thats just someone trolling.
No it it isn't seems, TH for characters ARE 40 points [Source] D6Evolution.
Overall you lose various other points here and there in the codex so you most likely have the same list, it just hurts armies that field multiple Smash Captains rather than just a single one. Also I think they confirmed for non characters it is 14 points so it has gone down there.
This seems a baked in cost for able to get D5 or so TH.
It's a shame that they probably won't update the old Index units - I'm not expecting any detailed update to individual units, but it would be nice if they made army-wide special rules also available to units that are only in the Index, i.e. letting them use Angels of Death, and e.g. letting Orks use DakkaDakkaDakka. Otherwise the Index units are difficult to use now.
OrkPlayer137 wrote: It's a shame that they probably won't update the old Index units - I'm not expecting any detailed update to individual units, but it would be nice if they made changes to army-wide special rules also available to units that are only in the Index, i.e. letting them use Angels of Death, and e.g. letting Orks use DakkaDakkaDakka. Otherwise the Index units are difficult to use now.
honestly if someone was using an index unit I'd allow them to assume they had those stuff, not doing so just seems kinda a donkey-cave ruleslawyer thing to me.
OrkPlayer137 wrote: It's a shame that they probably won't update the old Index units - I'm not expecting any detailed update to individual units, but it would be nice if they made changes to army-wide special rules also available to units that are only in the Index, i.e. letting them use Angels of Death, and e.g. letting Orks use DakkaDakkaDakka. Otherwise the Index units are difficult to use now.
honestly if someone was using an index unit I'd allow them to assume they had those stuff, not doing so just seems kinda a donkey-cave ruleslawyer thing to me.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Can't wait for the absolutely wild over reactions to the new book. It happens every single release, I remember when GSC were released and everyone lost their minds bit I've never seen them actually used before.
I'm a little sad since I was playing around with a guilliman + aggressors list for a few weeks now, and now Aggressors, especially UM ones, are now rather bonkers.
It will be fun to see what some of the local SM players come up with though. Hopefully some changes from castle devastator + officers.
I think it is still good. Guilliman's to-hit-re-rolls got better, he's cheaper and Guilliman can now Honour the Chapter to fight twice. Don't underestimate the ol' Girlyman. Also, Ultramarine Aggressors can now pseudo-Greater-Good-Overwatch for each other (again with Guilliman re-rolls probably in there too).
The nerf to guilliman’s wound rerolls is pretty major. He’s always been used to reroll wounds of low-ish strength weapons that need 5s to wound most stuff.
Now you’re not getting anything from Guilliman that you can’t from normal HQs for about half the cost - and without needing to fit in a lord of war somehow.
So it’s a pretty major nerf, combined with major buffs elsewhere. I expect the end result will be that people run other chapters more.
People ran Guilliman with Repulsors or Scout Bikes, Scout Snipers, etc.. re-rolling the low strength stuff and fishing for mortal wounds. That build is probably dead.
But people also ran Guilliman with, say, triple-Krast Crusaders or some such, no other Ultramarine even in sight. Just for the Advance & charge & Re-roll 1s buff, and for his insane cc. damage output.
The latter got a lot better with Guilliman fighting twice, and can I see Guilliman be very worth it in a Marine list that is something of a hybrid of the above two: A more aggressive Marine list that moves up, uses the Guilliman ranged re-rolls as a bonus turn 1, maybe 2, but is more geared towards getting Guilliman stuck in there, maybe with a Gallant or so, maybe with just more close combat Marines. etc..
People ran Guilliman with Repulsors or Scout Bikes, Scout Snipers, etc.. re-rolling the low strength stuff and fishing for mortal wounds. That build is probably dead.
But people also ran Guilliman with, say, triple-Krast Crusaders or some such, no other Ultramarine even in sight. Just for the Advance & charge & Re-roll 1s buff, and for his insane cc. damage output.
The latter got a lot better with Guilliman fighting twice, and can I see Guilliman be very worth it in a Marine list that is something of a hybrid of the above two: A more aggressive Marine list that moves up, uses the Guilliman ranged re-rolls as a bonus turn 1, maybe 2, but is more geared towards getting Guilliman stuck in there, maybe with a Gallant or so, maybe with just more close combat Marines. etc..
People ran Guilliman with Repulsors or Scout Bikes, Scout Snipers, etc.. re-rolling the low strength stuff and fishing for mortal wounds. That build is probably dead.
But people also ran Guilliman with, say, triple-Krast Crusaders or some such, no other Ultramarine even in sight. Just for the Advance & charge & Re-roll 1s buff, and for his insane cc. damage output.
The latter got a lot better with Guilliman fighting twice, and can I see Guilliman be very worth it in a Marine list that is something of a hybrid of the above two: A more aggressive Marine list that moves up, uses the Guilliman ranged re-rolls as a bonus turn 1, maybe 2, but is more geared towards getting Guilliman stuck in there, maybe with a Gallant or so, maybe with just more close combat Marines. etc..
Remeber gallant means no combat doctrines.
If the end result is that Guilliman ends up pushing forward to chop things up, rather than standing in a gunline, then I'm all for it.
The elites slot feels very busy now. You've got Aggressors competing with the Invictor, and you likely still want an ancient a lot of the time. I don't like reivers but a unit held back to drop on an objective could be worth its points, as they'd be fairly hard to shift late game.
At 2k I'm actually considering a brigade. Vague shape of the army is captain, Lieutenant and chaplain, 4x10 intercessors, 2x5 incursors, Aggressors and ancient for elites, supporessors for FA and eliminators for HS. It fits into 2k, more or less. I quite like the idea of effectively a Primaris horde of roughly 80 models, most of which are obsec.
The alternative is a repulsor-based list. It looks like repulsor executioners with squads of 3 Aggressors inside will be a pretty good option. I think aggressors are nasty enough that now they'll attract a lot of hate - but there's always the option of just taking loads of them. Having 3 wounds each instead of 2 is just fantastic.
Auto rifle intercessors seem like a pretty awesome troop unit now. Each guy almost has an assault heavy bolter now, with the tactical doctrine running. I can see these guys causing havoc and I particularly like how they don't require any CP nonsense to work. They just chuck out 3 shots each at 24" and are hard to get rid of. I'm not sure if I'd always take them over normal rifles, but I think there's a strong case for going half and half now - where before you'd only ever take normal rifles. Auto rifle guys have close to the number of shots per point you get from aggressors now, in a troop choice with a lot more bodies, but of course they lack the option to fire twice and have no power fists.
Whatever happens I've got a ton of stuff I'd need to paint for the London GT, if taking this army. Probably more than I can do. Tricky.
Yeah I'm thinking about the tactical doctirine, giving them AP-1. Admittedly that also gives normal rifles -2.
But 3 shots is a lot. I'd rather have 3 shots at 24" than 1 at 30, even if it meant sometimes missing out that shot.
Normal rifles do have access to the rapid fire stratagem though. Going to 4 shots each at -2 ap is definitely enough to warrant taking at least one unit with those I think. That's proper dakka. The auto rifle thing of auto-hitting within 12" is nowhere near as good.
Sadly I'm pretty sure stalkers remain rubbish in comparison. I guess you could take a squad with them to snipe characters but that's pricey on CPs, and eliminators exist. I could well be wrong about this though. 10 guys with D2 sniper rifles would be scary, and they aren't expensive. AP-3 on turn 1 with the devastator discipline too. Actually that really isn't bad.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Don't autorifles have no AP and 24" though? If not, then there's still a reason to take bolt rifles, which are 30" range and -1 AP.
You're right on the auto's profile, and thus there's still a reason to use the basic rifle, but auto bolt rifles are now extremely viable. They're much better against GEQ, match them against MEQ, and have a similar threat range to 30" immobile bolt rifles (because they don't need to stand still, they can move 6" and still fire out to 24"). They trade -1 AP and an extra point for 1 shot the flexibility to advance and fire if needed. That's a fair trade off considering that 1 extra shot makes them either equivalent or slightly better than the rifle against almost every target.
People ran Guilliman with Repulsors or Scout Bikes, Scout Snipers, etc.. re-rolling the low strength stuff and fishing for mortal wounds. That build is probably dead.
But people also ran Guilliman with, say, triple-Krast Crusaders or some such, no other Ultramarine even in sight. Just for the Advance & charge & Re-roll 1s buff, and for his insane cc. damage output.
The latter got a lot better with Guilliman fighting twice, and can I see Guilliman be very worth it in a Marine list that is something of a hybrid of the above two: A more aggressive Marine list that moves up, uses the Guilliman ranged re-rolls as a bonus turn 1, maybe 2, but is more geared towards getting Guilliman stuck in there, maybe with a Gallant or so, maybe with just more close combat Marines. etc..
Remeber gallant means no combat doctrines.
I don't think that kind of list cares.
Combat Doctrines can be nice, if you build your army for it, but they certainly aren't necessary.
Kirasu wrote: It's pretty amazing with all these upgrades that reivers still manage to be trash. Their grenades still don't so anything due to range, their CC is on par with intercessors who are troops with better guns and their shooting is on par with scouts who are cheaper.
I wouldn't call Reivers trash as they are only a point (well two points in practical use) more expensive than Intercessors and offer deep strike. I will admit continuing to be Elites does hamper them a bit not having a Objective Secured and potentially getting the way of other Elites options thus costing CP. However, they do have a unique niche, a small one but a niche none the less, to offer a space marine army. Especially a Primaris only army like mine. . As for their melee, I think there is something to be said for not having to foot slog or buy a transport to get them on the other side of the table.
At the same time, all Reivers really having going for them is deep strike (and Phobos Librarian powers if they work the same) compared to Intercessors. The rest of the things Reivers have that Intercessors don't tends to be pretty situational. So I can't say the extra point makes much sense, but we are talking about 10 points or so here so I am less concerned about to this feasibility of Reivers vs. Intercessors now. In summary, I think they are a weaker option but not so much that with a little extra effort they can pulling their own weight to not be a burden.
I do kinda hope that Raven Guard or some other chapter can make them Troop options though.
All the fancy rules seem to have stopped them looking at some core issues, like what are Reivers for? Why does a Pred have only one more wound than a Rhino? etc.
But FWIW Reivers went down 2pts apparently. I like them (my version at least) but wish they had a tiny bit more utility (being troops would be a good start).
Quick question, soz if it’s been answered: how many points does the War Walker cost with the flamer or autocannon and whatever wargear it can have?
And how many points is the new Reiver Lt? Trying to work out if I can shove them into my list.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Reivers are still useless. Morale tricks aren't good, they don't get Assault 3 on their Carbines, and I can get Vanguard to do more.
They're a great example of a pointless model. Proxy them into Intercessors because skull helmets for your troops is cool.
They're not terrible, but ya, the carbine version are outperformed by troops right now.
Still, it's quite possible that some chapters that have complimentary abilities will get a use out of the knife version. It wouldn't take much for BT to use them with a phobos lieutenant. Their charge rerolls plus the +1 to charge warlord trait would help them get in close. A combat knife relic, another way to boost charges, or a way to get to assault phase turn two would just be gravy. I'm sure they will get at least one thing that helps reivers.
The same goes for Raven Guard. Who knows what their character will do and a combat knife relic would be right up their ally. With every supplement getting so many stratagems, odds are one of the books will make knife reivers useful. It really wouldn't take all that much.
I'm wondering if I can use spare bits from the new kits to turn the Reiver bodies I've got into any of the cool new stuff. Depends if they come with multiple of the bolt guns or just 5 with alternate scopes - which seems more likely.
I did use the body of one to make a standing eliminator using most of the bits from a shadowspear one. That worked ok.
If I squint correctly, the Reiver liutenant seems to be even crappier than I first though. It seems that in order to gain the Reiver mask, the pistol, combat blade and smoke grenades, he has to (along with weapons) sacrifice the grav-chute! So he cannot even do the only think he could reasonably be there for: to deploy along Reivers to give them rerolls and an extra terror stack.
Though rubbish, this isn't surprising. Presumably it's because the Reiver one doesn't come with a grav chute, having accidentally swapped back packs with the inwhatever lieutenant.
A Reiver lieutenant sort of isn't awful. Scarier than a normal lieutenant, but hard to actually argue in favour of. Not exactly bad, but certainly unclear what the actual point of him is. You mostly want a lieutenant stood around his own lines buffing stuff, don't you?
Edit, here he is. Classic tripping over, grav-chute-free pose:
I really like the scaling between the bolt rifles. Either:
3 shots at 24" with AP-0/1
2 shots (rapid fire, bolter Discipline, etc) at 15/30" with AP1/2
Or 1 shot at 36" with AP2/3 with damage 2.
Makes the Auto and Stalker feel like they have a specific purpose while the standard BR is more all purpose but not as good against either the first 2's ideal targets
Wow. Another week of no purchases from me. The Invictor Warsuit is not doing for me. It looks like they are spreading this release out quite a bit. Unfortunately, it also means other armies besides the UM and WS have to continue waiting for their piece of the pie.
The funny thing about the wake the dead lieutenant is its armed exactly like one of the starter set lieutenants. (Sword and pistol, different pose), so having it wandering free in the world doesn't actually increase available options in any way at all.
Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
Edit: Small thing, but the guy driving the Invictor has controls that look kind of useless for it. I know people hate the baby carrier but at least it's got a vaguely believable control system. I don't think you can say that of the Invictor.
Overall I don't hate the thing but I definitely don't love it. The other releases are better though.
Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
Impulse buys form all of the pre-existing marine players - oh this week you need a codex and ultras suppliment, here you go. two weeks later... here is the xxx marines suppliment with even better rules, you want this one too?
Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
I'm glad they are spacing things out. Lets the wallet recover
Voss wrote: The funny thing about the wake the dead lieutenant is its armed exactly like one of the starter set lieutenants. (Sword and pistol, different pose), so having it wandering free in the world doesn't actually increase available options in any way at all.
It does in the sense that it’s now available without having to buy the starter.
Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
Production capacity, almost certainly (keep in mind that warcry would've taken a lot of that capacity with a ne game with 6 entirely new warband sprues, plus terrain plus critters, plus ramping up some production of the other two terrain kits). Also the brand new enforcers were squeezed in here as well. Side order of spacing them out so budgets don't feel too overwhelmed in one go.
Given that they've shown the models off already, I feel fairly certain that the 23rd of August is going to be more marines. It should wrap with the incursors/infiltrators, tank and eliminators. Three kits is manageable.
Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
Production capacity, almost certainly (keep in mind that warcry would've taken a lot of that capacity with a ne game with 6 entirely new warband sprues, plus terrain plus critters, plus ramping up some production of the other two terrain kits). Also the brand new enforcers were squeezed in here as well. Side order of spacing them out so budgets don't feel too overwhelmed in one go.
Given that they've shown the models off already, I feel fairly certain that the 23rd of August is going to be more marines. It should wrap with the incursors/infiltrators, tank and eliminators. Three kits is manageable.
Production issues makes sense for the models but not for the books.
I'm basically just panicking that my Crimson Fists won't have their rules in time for the LGT. But I can just be lazy and take the knights I've already painted in that scenario. Not the end of the world.
AduroT wrote: The Warsuit has a heavy flamer option doesn’t it? Have we not seen what that looks like yet?
We have not seen what it looks like yet. And apparently there's more options too!
One of the early shots of it had something that looked like a comms array, so I wonder if the Warsuit will have an Orbital Array too.
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Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
That's actually why I'm curious to know if there's just a "Phobos Lieutenant with Reiver Mask" profile or "Phobos Lieutenant" or just "Lieutenants can take Phobos Armor" options.
A Grav-Chute isn't hard to pack into the sprues. For the Reivers, it's a small bit that is separate to the actual backpack while the Shadowspear Lt had it built into the backpack proper.
That's actually why I'm curious to know if there's just a "Phobos Lieutenant with Reiver Mask" profile or "Phobos Lieutenant" or just "Lieutenants can take Phobos Armor" options.
It is Phobos Lieutenant with options for both Shadowspear gear and new Reiver gear. And if I saw correctly, the Reiver one can't have the grav-chute, making him completely and utterly pointless.
As much as they're hyping the Primaris Lieutenants, they all pretty much suck. The old power sword and pistol combo remains pretty much as the only sensible loadout, and that's nothing to write home about.
That's actually why I'm curious to know if there's just a "Phobos Lieutenant with Reiver Mask" profile or "Phobos Lieutenant" or just "Lieutenants can take Phobos Armor" options.
It is Phobos Lieutenant with options for both Shadowspear gear and new Reiver gear. And if I saw correctly, the Reiver one can't have the grav-chute, making him completely and utterly pointless.
As much as they're hyping the Primaris Lieutenants, they all pretty much suck. The old power sword and pistol combo remains pretty much as the only sensible loadout, and that's nothing to write home about.
And now you won't feel bad about replacing his Power Sword with the Burning Blade!
xttz wrote: We're under 3 weeks from the NOVA preview, wonder if they're keeping something back for that
Dark Angels...something is stirring
They’re in White Dwarf, that’s all we know. White Dwarf isn’t even connected to new releases anymore, so it might literally just be an Index Astartes thing for them.
Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
Production capacity, almost certainly (keep in mind that warcry would've taken a lot of that capacity with a ne game with 6 entirely new warband sprues, plus terrain plus critters, plus ramping up some production of the other two terrain kits). Also the brand new enforcers were squeezed in here as well. Side order of spacing them out so budgets don't feel too overwhelmed in one go.
Given that they've shown the models off already, I feel fairly certain that the 23rd of August is going to be more marines. It should wrap with the incursors/infiltrators, tank and eliminators. Three kits is manageable.
Production issues makes sense for the models but not for the books.
Yes it does. They can't go to their usual printer and say 'Hey, do seven books simultaneously for us. Just bump your other customers off the press.'
Though at this point they don't seem to even have a regular printer- various books this year have different company names from China and the Warcry rulebook was surprisingly published in the UK.
But having inconsistent relationships (rather than being a regular customer) makes it even more difficult to schedule time.
Would like the Primaris Lieutenant, but if at £17.50 I'd much rather the easy-to-build intercessors and perform a simple conversion with plasticard and putty.
They are nice sculpts though - especially the Librarian.
I'm pretty sure the RAW, this means not only is first turn deep strike but also means you can put your entire army into them. Especially since acceptable losses means that tabling isn't a victory condition.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I'm pretty sure the RAW, this means not only is first turn deep strike but also means you can put your entire army into them. Especially since acceptable losses means that tabling isn't a victory condition.
Incorrect. While you can arrive turn 1, only the units are exempt. The part where you must have half your army on the battlefield isn't affecting units, it's applying to the player.
ulfhednir86 wrote: I'm pretty sure the RAW, this means not only is first turn deep strike but also means you can put your entire army into them. Especially since acceptable losses means that tabling isn't a victory condition.
Incorrect. While you can arrive turn 1, only the units are exempt. The part where you must have half your army on the battlefield isn't affecting units, it's applying to the player.
Makes sense, but 5th line down does mention matched play.
I think we've seen all the new stuff, they're just going to stretch it out. as it is if they keep to 2 supplements a month they've got marine releases for a good length of time. well until, next year if one assumes the space wolves, dark angels and blood angels will each get a updated codex
BrianDavion wrote: the space wolves, dark angels and blood angels will each get a updated codex
At least they're getting an updated Codex, looking at the digital releases, the new SM Codex is entirely new, not like the CSM 2.0.
we dunno if they will, I said if one assumes GW is wanting to put out a updated SW, DA and BA codex, they might just point out a FAQ saying "you can take these vanguard units" and call ti a day
BrianDavion wrote: the space wolves, dark angels and blood angels will each get a updated codex
At least they're getting an updated Codex, looking at the digital releases, the new SM Codex is entirely new, not like the CSM 2.0.
At least Chaos had a 1.0 Codex for a good 2 years, rocking all kinds of insane tournament winning combos, while Space Wolves sat on their index.
Now Chaos has a 2.0 and a gazillion cool Specialist Detachments, while Space Wolves sit on outdated garbage and half-assed PDFs, probably for another 2 years, when they‘ll get a a 2021 book written for the 2019 game, probably a month before either Chaos 3.0 or straight 9th Edition.
Chaos Marines should probably lose all Strats, Relics, Legion Traits, WL Traits, etc.. and Play straighten Index for a year or two, to get a taste of how it feels to not be constantly pampered like Chaos Marines, lol.
So can someone clarify for the wording of the Successor Chapter rule; Can you still take one extra Chapter Tactic, so you can have say, Salamander Chapter Tactics + the +3" to ranged weapons CT.
Or is it only the founding Chapter Tactics and nothing else?
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So can someone clarify for the wording of the Successor Chapter rule; Can you still take one extra Chapter Tactic, so you can have say, Salamander Chapter Tactics + the +3" to ranged weapons CT.
Or is it only the founding Chapter Tactics and nothing else?
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So can someone clarify for the wording of the Successor Chapter rule; Can you still take one extra Chapter Tactic, so you can have say, Salamander Chapter Tactics + the +3" to ranged weapons CT.
Or is it only the founding Chapter Tactics and nothing else?
only the founding chapter.
Yeah that makes sense, watching the GMG video he worded it like you could take the founding CT AND one extra one, which made no sense because then EVERYONE would run successor chapters.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So can someone clarify for the wording of the Successor Chapter rule; Can you still take one extra Chapter Tactic, so you can have say, Salamander Chapter Tactics + the +3" to ranged weapons CT.
Or is it only the founding Chapter Tactics and nothing else?
only the founding chapter.
Yeah that makes sense, watching the GMG video he worded it like you could take the founding CT AND one extra one, which made no sense because then EVERYONE would run successor chapters.
I forget what it was as it was minor but I did catch him making at least one mistake in his video. the first videos are GOING to have the odd error, simply due to the rush
Nah you just get some basic tenets from the founders. I wish there were more choices though but I think there's some strong stuff to do. I'm thinking of doing my Raptors Lias Bomb as the first part of Raven Guard + the 3" additional range so far.
Mandragola wrote: Notable that the lieutenant from Shadowspear isn't available, as he's not on his own sprue. I actually douubt we'll see him again.
In general those previews are a disappointment. I'd been expecting rules for another chapter or two. And there are quite a lot of models not yet with a release date. I guess they're spacing them out for some reason.
I'm glad they are spacing things out. Lets the wallet recover
yeah, I'm a fluffy monkey so wanna get all these supplements, my wallets going to feel that
From all the leaks then of Codex reviews, did anything change with the Suppressors? Wondered if they'd be getting any alternate weapon options since basically every Primaris unit has at least 1 alternate weapon loadout option and would seem odd if they didn't.
Suppressors are the same. They do benefit from devastator doctrine on turn one, if you like that sort of thing. Downside is they can’t be bought anywhere outside shadowspear.
They also still have no real way to mitigate their -1 to hit outside the Tactical Doctrine with Ultramarines. Oh well. I still think they are neat models.
Mandragola wrote: Suppressors are the same. They do benefit from devastator doctrine on turn one, if you like that sort of thing. Downside is they can’t be bought anywhere outside shadowspear.
Listen carefully: Starter set Intercessors + Marine Jump Packs + FW autocannons (or sentinel autocannon). You can make them for less than actual Suppressors, and they look SO much better.
2) are the Phobos troops better than intercessors, or are intercessors better? I’m a little confused. Basically,
Should I buy Shadowspear or not while I have the chance?
If azrael goes primaris... What will happen to the lion helm? There's rumours Lion El may come back so many he'll get it back after it gets a XXXL upsizing, or will the helm stay with Azrael, in which case, do they update the design to the new style helmets or not?
Tiberius501 wrote: Aw man, the Reiver Lt can’t take a Grav-chute...? Really? Not sure how to get him up with the Reivers now :/
Does the Reiver Lt. mini have a grav-chute?
nope. honestly kinda annoying. it woul;dn't have been hard to include an optional one on the sprue
They must drop this ridiculous no model = no rules policy, especially with how easy it is to do conversion wise (backpack swap). This needs to be the next big push by the community with GW, it's just so daft. If it's as simple as swap a back pack, or a weapon conversion wise, bloody allow it!!
I just discovered an important fact many of these previews have missed
Relics of the Chapter = 1 CP Use this stratagem before battle, your army can have one additional relic. All of the Relics in your army includes must be different and given to different models.
ERGO there is no limit to the number of relics you can have (CP allowing.)
Mandragola wrote: Suppressors are the same. They do benefit from devastator doctrine on turn one, if you like that sort of thing. Downside is they can’t be bought anywhere outside shadowspear.
Listen carefully: Starter set Intercessors + Marine Jump Packs + FW autocannons (or sentinel autocannon). You can make them for less than actual Suppressors, and they look SO much better.
Anyone got any pictures of those?
Sounds like they could be good..
ulfhednir86 wrote: I'm pretty sure the RAW, this means not only is first turn deep strike but also means you can put your entire army into them. Especially since acceptable losses means that tabling isn't a victory condition.
Incorrect. While you can arrive turn 1, only the units are exempt. The part where you must have half your army on the battlefield isn't affecting units, it's applying to the player.
Incorrect the rule for tactical reserves includes the condition of number of units and points costs. The Drop Pod and units inside the Drop Pod ignore this rule entirely. Ergo you can NULL deploy with enough drop pods. Simply put if you have units that are not in drop pods the ones IN or ARE Drop Pods are not COUNTED as if they are in your army for the relevance of this rule.
ThatMG wrote: I just discovered an important fact many of these previews have missed
Relics of the Chapter = 1 CP Use this stratagem before battle, your army can have one additional relic. All of the Relics in your army includes must be different and given to different models.
ERGO there is no limit to the number of relics you can have (CP allowing.)
yeah I noticed that too, all the reviewers where claiming "ohh you can have only one other relic" but there's no limits on the number of times you can use this stratigium. my read is this is a buff not a nerf to how many relics you can take
ThatMG wrote: I just discovered an important fact many of these previews have missed
Relics of the Chapter = 1 CP Use this stratagem before battle, your army can have one additional relic. All of the Relics in your army includes must be different and given to different models.
ERGO there is no limit to the number of relics you can have (CP allowing.)
yeah I noticed that too, all the reviewers where claiming "ohh you can have only one other relic" but there's no limits on the number of times you can use this stratigium. my read is this is a buff not a nerf to how many relics you can take
Yeah it is a buff considering we have many relic options now due to Main Book + Faction Book. It's also a buff because if you want to run the typical list or 3 relics it's, 1 Free for Warlord, and 2 CP rather than 3 CP for 2 additional.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If azrael goes primaris... What will happen to the lion helm? There's rumours Lion El may come back so many he'll get it back after it gets a XXXL upsizing, or will the helm stay with Azrael, in which case, do they update the design to the new style helmets or not?
I hope the Lion just let his pal Azrael keep it and fight with his head uncovered... like all other Primarchs and Sergeants like to do!
Definitely a buff. I could see myself using the banner, the Fist of Vengeance for my Captain (if it exists??) and the burning blade or some other thing on a lieutenant.
The flexibility is actually really nice. I could imagine giving the lieutenant the armour indominatus if he needs to stay alive for a mission, the relic of Gathalmor, or maybe even a gun.
Mandragola wrote: Definitely a buff. I could see myself using the banner, the Fist of Vengeance for my Captain (if it exists??) and the burning blade or some other thing on a lieutenant.
The flexibility is actually really nice. I could imagine giving the lieutenant the armour indominatus if he needs to stay alive for a mission, the relic of Gathalmor, or maybe even a gun.
you'll still only be able to put one relic on a character
Mandragola wrote: Definitely a buff. I could see myself using the banner, the Fist of Vengeance for my Captain (if it exists??) and the burning blade or some other thing on a lieutenant.
The flexibility is actually really nice. I could imagine giving the lieutenant the armour indominatus if he needs to stay alive for a mission, the relic of Gathalmor, or maybe even a gun.
I play Battle-Forged Narrative so..
Relic of Gathalmor is mandatory, most my armies that can run 3 or more Psykers (unlimited powers).
Ancient Relic (I personally prefer the 9" range rather than the +1 to action on death.)
Master-Crafted Weapon is one that is going to be strong on lots of things.
Mandragola wrote: Definitely a buff. I could see myself using the banner, the Fist of Vengeance for my Captain (if it exists??) and the burning blade or some other thing on a lieutenant.
The flexibility is actually really nice. I could imagine giving the lieutenant the armour indominatus if he needs to stay alive for a mission, the relic of Gathalmor, or maybe even a gun.
you'll still only be able to put one relic on a character
Yes of course, but you can decide what to give them (if anything) each game, depending on what you're up against. Personally I've had quite a lot of use out of the Crimson Fist relic bolt rifle - which may or may not exist right now.
It is pretty funny that no chapter except WS and UM can use their Unique characters when the codex is released. Hopefully this wasnt an "oversight" or the last chapter could be waiting quite a while if we're doing 2 a month.
Of course someone will say "...but the index". Well that's a pretty absurd idea too, you telling me that its acceptable that we have to go BACK to a book that was made obsolete years ago in order to use previous versions of characters? lol.. also those characters dont have the Angels of Death rule.
Kirasu wrote: It is pretty funny that no chapter except WS and UM can use their Unique characters when the codex is released. Hopefully this wasnt an "oversight" or the last chapter could be waiting quite a while if we're doing 2 a month.
Of course someone will say "...but the index". Well that's a pretty absurd idea too, you telling me that its acceptable that we have to go BACK to a book that was made obsolete years ago in order to use previous versions of characters? lol.. also those characters dont have the Angels of Death rule.
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Special characters and units that aren't yet covered in their own supplement (such as Captain Lysander or Crusader Squads) will be included in a free PDF which will be available alongside the release of the new Codex, so you won't need to wait to use these models.
Pardon me if I've missed it, but the way I'm hearing things is that named characters are exclusive to the supplement books? And not only that, certain units like Honour Guard and Chapter Ancients are too? Meaning, if say, you had Calgar, Lysander, Shrike, you'd need the main codex + 3 supplements to use them?
Chapter = UM
Bat 1
HQ Super Calgar (Warlord)
Super Tiggy
Troop
3x5 Infiltrators (or scouts if points run out)
3x6 Aggressors (Bolt+Frag)
1x Primaris Ancient (Relic Banner)
1x Primaris Apothecary
1x6 Centurion Devastators (Grav Cannon and amp, Hurricane Bolters)
Bat 2
HQ Primaris Captain (Master-Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword Relic)
Primaris Lieutenant (Relic Auto Bolt Rifle)
3x5 Infiltrators (or scouts if points run out)
+other stuff (not sure if this has hit 2k points yet)
ThatMG wrote: Theory Crafted "That's a lot of damage" List.
Chapter = UM
Bat 1
HQ Super Calgar (Warlord)
Super Tiggy
Troop
3x5 Infiltrators (or scouts if points run out)
3x6 Aggressors (Bolt+Frag)
1x Primaris Ancient (Relic Banner)
1x Primaris Apothecary
1x6 Centurion Devastators (Grav Cannon + AMP)
Bat 2
HQ Primaris Captain (Master-Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword Relic)
Primaris Lieutenant (Relic Auto Bolt Rifle)
3x5 Infiltrators (or scouts if points run out)
+other stuff (not sure if this has hit 2k points yet)
Based on the old Tiggy price i think you're about 270 points over the 2k with all of that stuff. With 6 units of scouts, you're about 50-60 points under the 2k.
That list could surely bring the hurt, but all your firepower is concentrated in 18 aggressors and 6 centurions. If your opponent has a decent amount of high AP mid/high damage weapons, you will soon find yourself with a lot of support elements for no one to support.
ThatMG wrote: Theory Crafted "That's a lot of damage" List.
Chapter = UM
Bat 1
HQ Super Calgar (Warlord)
Super Tiggy
Troop
3x5 Infiltrators (or scouts if points run out)
3x6 Aggressors (Bolt+Frag)
1x Primaris Ancient (Relic Banner)
1x Primaris Apothecary
1x6 Centurion Devastators (Grav Cannon + AMP)
Bat 2
HQ Primaris Captain (Master-Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword Relic)
Primaris Lieutenant (Relic Auto Bolt Rifle)
3x5 Infiltrators (or scouts if points run out)
+other stuff (not sure if this has hit 2k points yet)
Based on the old Tiggy price i think you're about 270 points over the 2k with all of that stuff. With 6 units of scouts, you're about 50-60 points under the 2k.
I am sure infiltrators went down in points and so did the grav weapons (significantly.) Update: I kinda see I need to drop infiltrators you most likely don't need many, for scouts instead.
Spoletta wrote: That list could surely bring the hurt, but all your firepower is concentrated in 18 aggressors and 6 centurions. If your opponent has a decent amount of high AP mid/high damage weapons, you will soon find yourself with a lot of support elements for no one to support.
Making your enemy only wound on a 4+ is also a thing.
An when they die, they have a 50/50 chance to shoot the enemy due to banner.
Aggressors are 3 wounds cents are 4 wounds.
Turn 1 is sit back, turn 2 is ROLL-OUT in the doctrine for "count as stationary if moved"
Also this list reminds me for The human faction from starcraft for some reason....
Considering Reivers, maybe I am mistaken, but are they the same cost or they dropped to 16 points base? I have hard time focusing on GMG review.
I think that grapnel launcher stayed the same though (2 pts)
Taken from the usual French forum, price costs.
I have reworked the originally dark and blurry images.
Now that unit names and some equipment names are not translated anymore, it should be straightforward.
Feel free to ask if a translation is needed.
Mandragola wrote: Suppressors are the same. They do benefit from devastator doctrine on turn one, if you like that sort of thing. Downside is they can’t be bought anywhere outside shadowspear.
Listen carefully: Starter set Intercessors + Marine Jump Packs + FW autocannons (or sentinel autocannon). You can make them for less than actual Suppressors, and they look SO much better.
Anyone got any pictures of those?
Sounds like they could be good..
So reivers for 18 pts with grapnel launcher vs intercessor hmmm. Now it has sense that bolt carbines did not get assault 3. You trade 1 shot and troop role for deepstrike, terror troops and free vertical move. Interesting
Gnollu wrote: So reivers for 18 pts with grapnel launcher vs intercessor hmmm. Now it has sense that bolt carbines did not get assault 3. You trade 1 shot and troop role for deepstrike, terror troops and free vertical move. Interesting
Which is a crap tradeoff. Morale gimmicks suck and Vanguard would be able to Fly and do the same thing.
Based on the review by WintersSEO, they have gone completely overboard with the special rules.
All marine units apparently have +1 attack in the first round of combat in addition to bolter drill and have the ability to choose whether to withdraw from combat.
I'm legitimately scared to run any kind of Ork unit other than Meganobs or a 30 blob into most primaris units. That is outrageous close combat ability. Combined with bolter drill and the tactical doctrines allowing for -1 AP everywhere, I could see entire blobs of orks being vaporized by basic boltgun fire. The resulting close combat ability from Ork boys would be pretty embarrassing against a 3 attack unit of basic intercessors with 2 wounds each. Trukk boys RIP. I wouldnt dare run 12 boys into even a primaris combat squad.
When is this smorgasbord of special rules coming to Dark Angels? I know were going to have access to the new primaris models but I want that free +1 attack. Too easy.
Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.
TedNugent wrote: Based on the review by WintersSEO, they have gone completely overboard with the special rules.
All marine units apparently have +1 attack in the first round of combat in addition to bolter drill and have the ability to choose whether to withdraw from combat.
I'm legitimately scared to run any kind of Ork unit other than Meganobs or a 30 blob into most primaris units. That is outrageous close combat ability. Combined with bolter drill and the tactical doctrines allowing for -1 AP everywhere, I could see entire blobs of orks being vaporized by basic boltgun fire. The resulting close combat ability from Ork boys would be pretty embarrassing against a 3 attack unit of basic intercessors with 2 wounds each. Trukk boys RIP. I wouldnt dare run 12 boys into even a primaris combat squad.
That's the case already though. Even 30 slugga boys bounce off a unit of 10 infiltrators/intercessors. Those extra attacks just make it an even worse idea to charge them.
Just don't bring boyz near a primaris shooting castle - capture objectives, force them to move and shot them to bits.
Tiberius501 wrote: Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.
If im doing the math correctly, and Incendium Invictor clocks in at 131 points.
Tiberius501 wrote: Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.
Looks like 136.
Base - 90
Autocannon - 20
Iron Hails - 6 (12)
Heavy Bolter - 10
Fragstorm - 4
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last poster is right about the flamer one. It's 5pts cheaper.
Awesome thanks heaps guys. Now I just need to work out if I want the autocannon or flamer, but I’m leaning towards the autocannon for a little bit of anti-elite/anti-light vehicle support.
I haven't read the full codex (obviously) but I'm pretty sure he has a 12" flamer and can infiltrate 9" away from the opposing force? (i.e....stupidly good)
Yeah that’s very true, thinking about it, it just seems better than the autocannon actually. I’m not really much of a math hammer dude but even vs vehicles it seems better on average, especially as he can move and shoot at full effectiveness.
Mantle wrote: Do we know how many point las fusil eliminators are and are they still capped at 3?
From the pictures :
Heavy support : Eliminators , 3 per squad, 18 points
"Arquebuse laser" (las fusil) : 15 points (They are not called fusil laser in french because it's the name of the IG weapon )
Total 99 points.
X078 wrote: So are Infiltrators now minimum 5 with the Helix/Comms, looks that way, before you had to take 6 dudes.
Its seems so, troops, 5-10 per squad, 22 ppm, 32 for the Helix.
Mantle wrote: Do we know how many point las fusil eliminators are and are they still capped at 3?
From the pictures :
Heavy support : Eliminators , 3 per squad, 18 points
"Arquebuse laser" (las fusil) : 15 points (They are not called fusil laser in french because it's the name of the IG weapon )
Total 99 points.
35 points for pretty durable snipers with a single 36 s8 ap-3 damage 3 gun isn't too bad I think. Considering Primaris before had to use dreads or hellblasters for anti tank this is a pretty solid options or for anti tank compare it to the suppressors which are s7 ap-2 damage 2 which are squishier, but have twice the number of shots.
Hmmm....
The warsuits seem pretty solid compared to the redemptor. Strong firepower and very strong if you get 1st and at the very least if you go second they can soak some firepower. That 10 inch move can get you far.
Mantle wrote: Do we know how many point las fusil eliminators are and are they still capped at 3?
From the pictures :
Heavy support : Eliminators , 3 per squad, 18 points
"Arquebuse laser" (las fusil) : 15 points (They are not called fusil laser in french because it's the name of the IG weapon )
Total 99 points.
Don't forget the camo-cloaks.
Oh you are right, I have forgotten about them.
Capes de camouflage (camo cloaks) : 3 points.
My French is not the best, but it seems like the Contemptor Dread got a price drop? CCW + Keres used to be 145 now it is [132]. (88 for dread, only 20 now for CCW only 22 for Keres, plus same 2 points for combi bolter).
TedNugent wrote: Based on the review by WintersSEO, they have gone completely overboard with the special rules.
All marine units apparently have +1 attack in the first round of combat in addition to bolter drill and have the ability to choose whether to withdraw from combat.
I'm legitimately scared to run any kind of Ork unit other than Meganobs or a 30 blob into most primaris units. That is outrageous close combat ability. Combined with bolter drill and the tactical doctrines allowing for -1 AP everywhere, I could see entire blobs of orks being vaporized by basic boltgun fire. The resulting close combat ability from Ork boys would be pretty embarrassing against a 3 attack unit of basic intercessors with 2 wounds each. Trukk boys RIP. I wouldnt dare run 12 boys into even a primaris combat squad.
That's the case already though. Even 30 slugga boys bounce off a unit of 10 infiltrators/intercessors. Those extra attacks just make it an even worse idea to charge them.
Just don't bring boyz near a primaris shooting castle - capture objectives, force them to move and shot them to bits.
What's to stop them from just plowing into you using bolter drill. 30 inch range, tactical doctrines -2 AP, multiple shots if they stand still, rerolls to hit and wound. Gg bro. Even an intercessor squad is bleeding boy units hard. Not counting scary stuff like aggressors.
Stavkat wrote: My French is not the best, but it seems like the Contemptor Dread got a price drop? CCW + Keres used to be 145 now it is 130. (88 for dread, only 20 now for CCW and 22 for Keres).
Stavkat wrote: My French is not the best, but it seems like the Contemptor Dread got a price drop? CCW + Keres used to be 145 now it is 130. (88 for dread, only 20 now for CCW and 22 for Keres).
Don't forget the storm bolter.
Combi Bolter. Crap, yes, will edit, thank you
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, how does this new codex work with that imperial index book that let you take Contemptor Mortis Dreads, is that still allowed?
Elbows wrote: I haven't read the full codex (obviously) but I'm pretty sure he has a 12" flamer and can infiltrate 9" away from the opposing force? (i.e....stupidly good)
Well, he can be set up like a scout during deployment. He cannot Deepstrike in (except if you're using the White Scars strat).
But you can set him up 9" from the enemy, hope you don't get seized on, move 10", do some flamering, charging, etc.. in your first turn.
TedNugent wrote: Based on the review by WintersSEO, they have gone completely overboard with the special rules.
All marine units apparently have +1 attack in the first round of combat in addition to bolter drill and have the ability to choose whether to withdraw from combat.
I'm legitimately scared to run any kind of Ork unit other than Meganobs or a 30 blob into most primaris units. That is outrageous close combat ability. Combined with bolter drill and the tactical doctrines allowing for -1 AP everywhere, I could see entire blobs of orks being vaporized by basic boltgun fire. The resulting close combat ability from Ork boys would be pretty embarrassing against a 3 attack unit of basic intercessors with 2 wounds each. Trukk boys RIP. I wouldnt dare run 12 boys into even a primaris combat squad.
That's the case already though. Even 30 slugga boys bounce off a unit of 10 infiltrators/intercessors. Those extra attacks just make it an even worse idea to charge them.
Just don't bring boyz near a primaris shooting castle - capture objectives, force them to move and shot them to bits.
What's to stop them from just plowing into you using bolter drill. 30 inch range, tactical doctrines -2 AP, multiple shots if they stand still, rerolls to hit and wound. Gg bro. Even an intercessor squad is bleeding boy units hard. Not counting scary stuff like aggressors.
how are marine units getting re-roll wounds now? they might be able to re-roll 1s to wound with a Lt nearby but other then that..
TedNugent wrote: What's to stop them from just plowing into you using bolter drill. 30 inch range, tactical doctrines -2 AP, multiple shots if they stand still, rerolls to hit and wound. Gg bro. Even an intercessor squad is bleeding boy units hard. Not counting scary stuff like aggressors.
The sole difference to the game I had two weeks ago is and additional -1 AP against a unit that has a 6+ armor save.
Everything you just listed has been there since the bolter beta rules. Nothing changed!
OverlyGrumpyTau wrote: Okay, so I haven't done too much digging because I'm worried about the results.
But did GW forget the Emperor's Spears exist in the codex?
Like did we get any updates the their tactic? Or even a mention?
Emperor's Spears don't exist "in the codex", they were a 1 card tactic and nothing more. I guarantee they won't get any update.
I'm pretty sure their rule became a Successor choice anyway, so you'd get that and some other rule. No real problems there unless you need to complain for the sake of complaining.
I'm curious to see what, if anything, happens to the Badab War chapters/characters. I'm particularly interested if many will get shoehorned into having "Inheritors of the Primarch". If not hello executioners exploding dice silliness.
StarHunter25 wrote: I'm curious to see what, if anything, happens to the Badab War chapters/characters. I'm particularly interested if many will get shoehorned into having "Inheritors of the Primarch". If not hello executioners exploding dice silliness.
FW likely won't specify although I'd argue novamarines should run with the Ultramarines sucessor rules
Apparently assault centurions now have 4 wounds, 3 attacks and cost 52 points each with two flamers. You get a ton of dakka out of these, then a squad of 3 seems to have 13 S10 ap-4 D3 attacks with no hit modifier. They do 17.33 wounds to a knight on the charge, without using rerolls.
So here’s a thought. What about a land raider (lol?) with three of these and maybe Pedro in? Or just loads of them. Crusaders with squads of five in, that sort of thing.
Why. In the utter, absolute hell balls. Did Boltstorm Gauntlets. On Aggressors. Go down to being CHEAPER than the Flamestorm Gauntlets? Why did they go down at all?!
GW are absolute mad ladz haha, not only are Aggressors buffed and already insane, especially the obnoxious UM ones, but they got cheaper? ...
EDIT: I read the wrong thing, nvm thank god. Peeps corrected me, it was actually the Gravis Captain’s that went down which is actually a good thing.
Tiberius501 wrote: Why. In the utter, absolute hell balls. Did Boltstorm Gauntlets. On Aggressors. Go down to being CHEAPER than the Flamestorm Gauntlets? Why did they go down at all?!
GW are absolute mad ladz haha, not only are Aggressors buffed and already insane, especially the obnoxious UM ones, but they got cheaper? ...
They didnt. Thats the Gravis Captain weapon. Agressors use the Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets item, which didnt change.
Tiberius501 wrote: Why. In the utter, absolute hell balls. Did Boltstorm Gauntlets. On Aggressors. Go down to being CHEAPER than the Flamestorm Gauntlets? Why did they go down at all?!
GW are absolute mad ladz haha, not only are Aggressors buffed and already insane, especially the obnoxious UM ones, but they got cheaper? ...
They didn't.
The single boltstorm gauntlet for the Gravis captain went down in price.
The auto boltstorm gauntlets for Aggressors are the same as they've been for awhile. 12 points for the gauntlets, 4 points for the fragstorm, and 21 points a body comes to the same exact cost they are today.
Flamestorm Aggressors are now 2 ppm cheaper than the bolt ones.
Tiberius501 wrote: Ah thank god, I read the wrong thing. Thanks for correcting me, I was about to whine to my friends and give them the wrong idea haha.
Haha, I hear that.
Though I'm not sure if you noticed - all Aggressors went up 1 attack and 1 wound. So if that produces some salt in your bloodstream, you can still begin whining to your buds
And starting turn 2, Ultramarine Aggressors can move around (but not advance) and still benefit from double shooting.
Tiberius501 wrote: Ah thank god, I read the wrong thing. Thanks for correcting me, I was about to whine to my friends and give them the wrong idea haha.
Haha, I hear that.
Though I'm not sure if you noticed - all Aggressors went up 1 attack and 1 wound. So if that produces some salt in your bloodstream, you can still begin whining to your buds
And starting turn 2, Ultramarine Aggressors can move around (but not advance) and still benefit from double shooting.
Even on overwatch.
Yeah that’s why I was getting so triggered haha. They were buffed and then I thought they also got cheaper. UM Aggressors are obnoxious.
Can GW settle on a price for the damned Auxillary Grenade Launcher for Intercessors?! First it was free. Then it was one point. Then it was free again. Now it is back to being one point.
Apparently assault centurions now have 4 wounds, 3 attacks and cost 52 points each with two flamers. You get a ton of dakka out of these, then a squad of 3 seems to have 13 S10 ap-4 D3 attacks with no hit modifier. They do 17.33 wounds to a knight on the charge, without using rerolls.
So here’s a thought. What about a land raider (lol?) with three of these and maybe Pedro in? Or just loads of them. Crusaders with squads of five in, that sort of thing.
Probably easier out of a stormraven.
Also, codex contemptor dreads are stupidly cheap. Khres builds are down to 132 by my count which is insane.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Can GW settle on a price for the damned Auxillary Grenade Launcher for Intercessors?! First it was free. Then it was one point. Then it was free again. Now it is back to being one point.
Look. It is no easy. Basically the whole meta depends on the correct balancing of this versatile and powerful weapon.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Can GW settle on a price for the damned Auxillary Grenade Launcher for Intercessors?! First it was free. Then it was one point. Then it was free again. Now it is back to being one point.
Look. It is no easy. Basically the whole meta depends on the correct balancing of this versatile and powerful weapon.
At least the ten points I am saving from my two Primaris LTs going down in price helps make up for the apparent 1 pt increase in each of my six Intercessor Squads. But honestly, the AGL did go up in effectiveness due to the Devastator Doctrine becoming AP-2 on Turn 1.
Tiberius501 wrote: Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.
Looks like 136.
Base - 90
Autocannon - 20
Iron Hails - 6 (12)
Heavy Bolter - 10
Fragstorm - 4
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last poster is right about the flamer one. It's 5pts cheaper.
Man, that's a tough edgecase right there. With 13 wounds and the IHCT it's on the cusp of being a competitive option in a mech heavy build, but I'm not sure that for 131 points it has the damage output to justify the investment.
Tiberius501 wrote: Anyone who can understand that stuff, how much does a fully kitted Invictor War Suit cost in points? Sorry to keep asking, just won’t get my hands on the codex for a little while, and not sure when BattleScribe will update.
Looks like 136.
Base - 90
Autocannon - 20
Iron Hails - 6 (12)
Heavy Bolter - 10
Fragstorm - 4
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last poster is right about the flamer one. It's 5pts cheaper.
Man, that's a tough edgecase right there. With 13 wounds and the IHCT it's on the cusp of being a competitive option in a mech heavy build, but I'm not sure that for 131 points it has the damage output to justify the investment.
Oh actually, what about the rocket pod thing it has on it's back? How much does that cost?
TedNugent wrote: Based on the review by WintersSEO, they have gone completely overboard with the special rules.
All marine units apparently have +1 attack in the first round of combat in addition to bolter drill and have the ability to choose whether to withdraw from combat.
I'm legitimately scared to run any kind of Ork unit other than Meganobs or a 30 blob into most primaris units. That is outrageous close combat ability. Combined with bolter drill and the tactical doctrines allowing for -1 AP everywhere, I could see entire blobs of orks being vaporized by basic boltgun fire. The resulting close combat ability from Ork boys would be pretty embarrassing against a 3 attack unit of basic intercessors with 2 wounds each. Trukk boys RIP. I wouldnt dare run 12 boys into even a primaris combat squad.
When is this smorgasbord of special rules coming to Dark Angels? I know were going to have access to the new primaris models but I want that free +1 attack. Too easy.
Well orks were codex:tellyporta when they came and are even more so these days. Days of footslogging into enemy lines are loooong gone. You get 37 orks vs 20 tacticals that move and shoot 40 shots hitting on 3+ and kills on 4+. If they charge that's another 42 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 4+ and you get 6+ save. Literally only thing that allows you to have any shot is tellyporta/da jump into combat. On foot you pretty much have to get close enough to let them charge least they simply back away 6" and shoot 40 bolter shots more.
Feels like best option will be actually go for >30"(>36" against primaris heavy army) range shooting for first 2-3 turns followed by T3 deep strikes against hopefully softened up. Any boyz on board will simply vaporize even more efficiently than they have before(I regularly lose 60+ greenskin per turn vs unoptimized marine list. Record vs unoptimized list was 106 greenskin turn 1 before I got to do anything...taught me to not leave anything important visible though all the grots would be dying anyway as I can't hide out of LOS EVERYTHING).
Pity but that footslogging across the board is dead was obvious from first leaks of ork codex.
Mek guns, lootas, ssag. Anything that can shoot from far and can cause 2 damage and preferably at least -1 to save is going to be needed. Rushing into combat is just going to get vaporized. Weird idea that orks are more of shooty army but that's GW's idea of orks for you.
TedNugent wrote: What's to stop them from just plowing into you using bolter drill. 30 inch range, tactical doctrines -2 AP, multiple shots if they stand still, rerolls to hit and wound. Gg bro. Even an intercessor squad is bleeding boy units hard. Not counting scary stuff like aggressors.
The sole difference to the game I had two weeks ago is and additional -1 AP against a unit that has a 6+ armor save.
Everything you just listed has been there since the bolter beta rules. Nothing changed!
Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, that extra AP is wasted against boys. Even at no AP it doesn't matter, because 6+ saves suck.
a) it's not even the -1 thing that is the big thing. Remember doctrine isn't just -1 AP...
b) it's still 20% more casualties for basic bolters. 6 kills vs 5.
Kdash wrote: Does anyone have any info on the supposed Reiver Lieutenant? Couldn't see it listed on that google doc.
Is it just the Phobos Lieutenant with combat blade and bolt carbine? With the unit then having the grav chute as a wargear option?
Yes, except it seems you can't have grav-chute if you take the Reiver weapons so he is completely useless.
I'm not 100% sure, but, i intent to test putting him in an Impulsor with 5 combat Reivers. Jump him out 1st turn after moving to provide re-rolls for the Vanguard stuff holding the centre of the table, and then allowing the Reivers to use their grenades turn 2 to prevent overwatch.
It's probably 252 points poorly spent, but, an interesting concept.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.
The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i doubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.
The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i diubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.
I think it’s all going to be about options. 5 Reivers and a 4++ Impulsor rocks in at 183 points. All going to depend on what you want those 183 points to do. The Lieutenant is likely going to be in your army anyway, at 62+ points, so we can ignore that investment cost.
I guess it’ll depend on where you setup your early game gunline. If it is mid table using the Warsuits etc, then, getting re-roll 1’s to wound up the table 1st turn is handy. If you’re backlining, then it’s pretty redundant and you can just go for another squad of 10 Intercessors or use the points towards another Repulsor Executioner.
The thought process currently being that – if you’re going 2nd, the scouts will die as an easy first strike and achieve nothing, but the Reivers/Impulsor will likely survive due to there just being more important threats on the table.
On the flip side, if you go first, it’s 34 bolter shots vs re-roll 1’s to wound and positioning for your turn 2. Again, depends on the rest of your army.
My current thought process is leading me down a turn 2 punch with high ROF at -1 or -2ap and charges. The only issue is, as I think with most Marine lists… Is that not having 1st turn could be problematic.
I think there are a lot of small and possibly workable, synergies in this book, though it might take time to work them out and will likely require focus on them when building the list to make the whole thing work.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.
The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i diubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.
I think it’s all going to be about options. 5 Reivers and a 4++ Impulsor rocks in at 183 points. All going to depend on what you want those 183 points to do. The Lieutenant is likely going to be in your army anyway, at 62+ points, so we can ignore that investment cost.
I guess it’ll depend on where you setup your early game gunline. If it is mid table using the Warsuits etc, then, getting re-roll 1’s to wound up the table 1st turn is handy. If you’re backlining, then it’s pretty redundant and you can just go for another squad of 10 Intercessors or use the points towards another Repulsor Executioner.
The thought process currently being that – if you’re going 2nd, the scouts will die as an easy first strike and achieve nothing, but the Reivers/Impulsor will likely survive due to there just being more important threats on the table.
On the flip side, if you go first, it’s 34 bolter shots vs re-roll 1’s to wound and positioning for your turn 2. Again, depends on the rest of your army.
My current thought process is leading me down a turn 2 punch with high ROF at -1 or -2ap and charges. The only issue is, as I think with most Marine lists… Is that not having 1st turn could be problematic.
I think there are a lot of small and possibly workable, synergies in this book, though it might take time to work them out and will likely require focus on them when building the list to make the whole thing work.
Yes, that could work.
First turn is for most armies an issue though, but with the investment in pts for Marines (and scouts) it seriously hurts if you don't get it.
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
Referred to ability to shoot rapid fire weapons for 2 shots at will. Move, short range, irrelevant since marines can now have ability to always shoot as if stationary. Those 10 tacticals will be pumping out 20 shots regardless of do they move or not. 20 tacticals will pump out 40 shots. 37 ork boyz(same points) will never reach on foot the marines facing 40 shots at that hit on 3+ and kill on 4+. And all their heavy weapons etc are also moving and shooting without penalty. They don't even need assault weapons anymore to move and shoot at will.
Only thing that keeps ork boyz relevant is ability to deep strike. Other than that marines will simply pepper them to death. Well not that they could before but at least before marines were either static or lost firepower. Now they aren't static and can move around with no penalties.
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.
No stratagem. That's their ability as long as they don't soup up with non-space marines.
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.
Not a strat, it’s an extra passive buff the Ultramarines have as long as Tactical Doctrine is in effect. Pretty damn good, as it affects everyone, including tanks like the Executioner, or their now obnoxious Aggressors.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You have a very broad definition of "interesting concept" apparently.
The concept is interesting.
it's just that it is easily more replicable and better done with scouts, or any other chaff unit.
and i diubt spending 1/8th of a 2000 pts army fo that one gimick to be great.
but yeah the concepts there.
I think it’s all going to be about options. 5 Reivers and a 4++ Impulsor rocks in at 183 points. All going to depend on what you want those 183 points to do. The Lieutenant is likely going to be in your army anyway, at 62+ points, so we can ignore that investment cost.
I guess it’ll depend on where you setup your early game gunline. If it is mid table using the Warsuits etc, then, getting re-roll 1’s to wound up the table 1st turn is handy. If you’re backlining, then it’s pretty redundant and you can just go for another squad of 10 Intercessors or use the points towards another Repulsor Executioner.
The thought process currently being that – if you’re going 2nd, the scouts will die as an easy first strike and achieve nothing, but the Reivers/Impulsor will likely survive due to there just being more important threats on the table.
On the flip side, if you go first, it’s 34 bolter shots vs re-roll 1’s to wound and positioning for your turn 2. Again, depends on the rest of your army.
My current thought process is leading me down a turn 2 punch with high ROF at -1 or -2ap and charges. The only issue is, as I think with most Marine lists… Is that not having 1st turn could be problematic.
I think there are a lot of small and possibly workable, synergies in this book, though it might take time to work them out and will likely require focus on them when building the list to make the whole thing work.
Yes, that could work.
First turn is for most armies an issue though, but with the investment in pts for Marines (and scouts) it seriously hurts if you don't get it.
Though, to be fair, the more I think about it, the less enthused I am about it lol – with my current list direction anyway… I think it could work, but it is firmly one of the synergy ideas to build completely around and may be better suited for a mech heavy list.
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
I believe there is a strat in the Ultramarines supplement that allows a unit to fire as if it remained stationary in it’s preceding movement phase.
Not a strat, it’s an extra passive buff the Ultramarines have as long as Tactical Doctrine is in effect. Pretty damn good, as it affects everyone, including tanks like the Executioner, or their now obnoxious Aggressors.
Ah, it was the Steady Advance strat I was thinking of – which applies Bolter Discipline regardless of how far you move for 1 unit.
tneva82 wrote: Marines didn't move and shoot twice with bolters before though last I checked. They can do that now. At least they had to camp static for two shots before. Now if you try to close in they can move away and if you try to stay far they move and fire twice anyway.
I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a stratagem allowing them shot shoot twice at full range now?
Referred to ability to shoot rapid fire weapons for 2 shots at will. Move, short range, irrelevant since marines can now have ability to always shoot as if stationary. Those 10 tacticals will be pumping out 20 shots regardless of do they move or not. 20 tacticals will pump out 40 shots. 37 ork boyz(same points) will never reach on foot the marines facing 40 shots at that hit on 3+ and kill on 4+. And all their heavy weapons etc are also moving and shooting without penalty. They don't even need assault weapons anymore to move and shoot at will.
Only thing that keeps ork boyz relevant is ability to deep strike. Other than that marines will simply pepper them to death. Well not that they could before but at least before marines were either static or lost firepower. Now they aren't static and can move around with no penalties.
Ah, found it, thank you. It's Ultramarines only though, so that's kind of a relieve.
I'm not worried about tacticals at all though. Intercessors and Infiltrators are what worry me as an ork player, since the are difficult to shift through shooting, two unit of intercessors piling up on a unit of boyz will now wipe them in close combat, and infiltrators simply make da jump charges impossible.
So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?
X078 wrote: So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?
It seems pretty good to me. It is quite cheap and can have an invulnerable save. Granted, as it cannot carry Gravis, the passenger options are limited. Hellblasters, Intercessors and characters all benefit from it though. Five Hellblasters + a captain or five veteran Intercessors with a thunder hammer or power fist sergeant + some choppy character seem like valid builds for me.
X078 wrote: So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?
Basically it’s for hellblasters. It stops the baddies shooting you dead on turn one, then you can move a massive distance before rapid firing.
I have a feeling they might have planned for it to be open topped with guys firing off the deck, but that would have been horrendous.
It’s interesting though. People (other than me) have been demanding a primaris rhino forever. Now it’s arrived and nobody is that fussed. The uses for an unarmed box are slightly limited, especially single so many primaris don’t need/can’t use it.
I actually think it’ll be a handy thing to have bobbing around against some people, as it’s cheap and fast enough to use to block movement or assault random things. You can soak overwatch for a smash captain or just try and lock down broadsides, for example. Not sure that warrants actually buying some.
X078 wrote: So is the Impulsor worth it?
I am probably missing something but it seems rather redundant with all the new Vanguard units outside of transporting Intercessors/Hellblasters? I'm thinking why even bother with it when i can just take a few Repulsor Executioners or something else for AT for mono SM?
Basically it’s for hellblasters. It stops the baddies shooting you dead on turn one, then you can move a massive distance before rapid firing.
I have a feeling they might have planned for it to be open topped with guys firing off the deck, but that would have been horrendous.
It’s interesting though. People (other than me) have been demanding a primaris rhino forever. Now it’s arrived and nobody is that fussed. The uses for an unarmed box are slightly limited, especially single so many primaris don’t need/can’t use it.
I actually think it’ll be a handy thing to have bobbing around against some people, as it’s cheap and fast enough to use to block movement or assault random things. You can soak overwatch for a smash captain or just try and lock down broadsides, for example. Not sure that warrants actually buying some.
If you want to hold an objective, impulsor filled with primaris is tough to beat. Rock hard transport and when you do kill it, rock hard infantry pop out and still hold. It's like more expensive venom spam.
Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…
Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!
Kdash wrote: Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…
Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!
There are a few things that you may be thinking of:
Stratagem: Fury of the first (1cp): Any phase. Chosen terminator unit, until the end of phase add +1 to hit rolls.
Chaplain Litany: Resitation of focus: select a friendly unit within 6”, +1 to hit roll for ranged weapons (I believe this is only if they target the closest enemy unit)
Kdash wrote: Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…
Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!
There are a few things that you may be thinking of:
Stratagem: Fury of the first (1cp): Any phase. Chosen terminator unit, until the end of phase add +1 to hit rolls.
Chaplain Litany: Resitation of focus: select a friendly unit within 6”, +1 to hit roll for ranged weapons (I believe this is only if they target the closest enemy unit)
BrianDavion wrote: that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.
My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.
That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!
I am shocked. They actually gave space marine players point reductions, custom successor chapters, buffs and new strategems ( rapid fire 2 bolt rifles anyone? ). Auto bolt rifles assault 3 all the time? LOLWTF thats awsome! 3 wound Aggressors are actually worth taking now, stick 3 in a repulsor executioner or 5 in the Repulsor. Heck yes. 6 Hellblasters in a shield dome Impulsor is a staple now.
Kdash wrote: Another question as I can’t seem to find it right now and can’t re-watch the vids until this evening…
Can anyone confirm whether there is a +1 to hit stratagem or not, please? I seem to remember there being one, but I can’t see it being talked about anywhere so I can’t help but think my tired brain made it up!
There are a few things that you may be thinking of:
Stratagem: Fury of the first (1cp): Any phase. Chosen terminator unit, until the end of phase add +1 to hit rolls.
Chaplain Litany: Resitation of focus: select a friendly unit within 6”, +1 to hit roll for ranged weapons (I believe this is only if they target the closest enemy unit)
Looking at that 'leak' list, there is a lot of stuff that's flatly wrong. Successor tactics, for example, aren't a founding trait + one other trait, nor are crimson fists the same as the WD version.
Tiberius501 wrote: I have a question. Is the War Suit worth taking over a second Redemptor?
If you're taking the warsuit, you're taking 3, along with some other infiltrators/scouting units. Juat taking one Warsuit is donating 130+ pts to your opponent.
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Crusaderobr wrote: I am shocked. They actually gave space marine players point reductions, custom successor chapters, buffs and new strategems ( rapid fire 2 bolt rifles anyone? ). Auto bolt rifles assault 3 all the time? LOLWTF thats awsome! 3 wound Aggressors are actually worth taking now, stick 3 in a repulsor executioner or 5 in the Repulsor. Heck yes. 6 Hellblasters in a shield dome Impulsor is a staple now.
I wouldn't say staple and I wouldn't say 6 Hellblasters, 5 hellblasters and a naked captain would likely be better.
The problem is that that's still more than 200pts of models in what is essentially a tin can. The competitive pricing makes the strategy viable for sure, perhaps even competitive, but even a 4++ is not that hard to break.
If you were going for impulsor/transport based list you'd want at least 5 total transports and enough chaff scouts to protect your deployment zone from things like bloodletter bombs or Slaanesh units that encircle a transport and prevent disembarkation.
TL: DR, If you're buying new transports, buy a couple.
BrianDavion wrote: that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.
My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.
That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!
Nope. Chaplain prayers go off at the start of the battle round. Deepstrike units can't benefit.
BrianDavion wrote: that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.
My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.
That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!
Nope. Chaplain prayers go off at the start of the battle round. Deepstrike units can't benefit.
My understanding was that the Chaplain can only attempt to use a litany at the start of the battle round, the aura is still in effect once that's done. So a chaplain can still effect a deepstiking unit, as long as the effect doesn't require picking a unit once the litany is cast.
... Q: If a transport moves, do any models embarked inside it count
as also having moved?
A: Yes.
"Counts as having moved" and "Counts as having moved X inches" are two wildly differing things.
Relevant quote from the BRB:
Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn. Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons.
Good catch on the units disembarking not being able to move. But I'd hardly call it situational. Being able to hide your dudes in a T7, 4++ vehicle that can then place them ~18" (14" move + 3" disembark + base width) forward first turn is still really good.
Yeah the transport is really solid for the hellblaster boys. It's got some pew pew with an ironhail and two SBs and with a 4++ it's pretty durable I'd think. Pretty solid for getting your hellblasters into position, playing alongside more aggressive builds and of course just charging it into things to die them up or eat overwatch. Also as an added bonus it'd make a solid screening unit against DS due to the -2 to charge it.
I've not seen anyone mention the chapter master stratagem? I really just want to get Primaris Pedro to lead my force anyway as I've already converted a model for him!
If the impulsor held 12 I would be excited about it. 6 hellblasters and a box for 300 points doesn't seem that effective to me for what it is going to cost.
Hellblasters still die T2 and if they are just going to show up-pew and then die you might as well bring inceptors (killing a 3 wound model on a modified roll of 1 while overcharging makes me soooooo salty) as they get more offensive out-put for less points and you don't need to spend 100points/$$ to get them where they want to be without dying t1.
bananathug wrote: If the impulsor held 12 I would be excited about it. 6 hellblasters and a box for 300 points doesn't seem that effective to me for what it is going to cost.
Hellblasters still die T2 and if they are just going to show up-pew and then die you might as well bring inceptors (killing a 3 wound model on a modified roll of 1 while overcharging makes me soooooo salty) as they get more offensive out-put for less points and you don't need to spend 100points/$$ to get them where they want to be without dying t1.
That's the big weakness of the impulsor.
It's a brilliantly designed, well costed model...that really doesn't have anything to transport. Hellblasters have a 30" range anway, most primaris stuff deepstrikes or infiltrates and intercessors don't matter enough to spend a transport on.
If it could hold aggressors then I'd buy 6 (because having 3 makes the next 3 a lot better and hellblasters would be worth it at that point) as it stands though, it's a good model without a purpose in life.
BrianDavion wrote: that chaplain might be yummy paired with hellblasters.
My intention is simply running a JP Chaplain up the table, deep striking 10 terminators turn 2 and then having a +4 to change, whilst they have exploding attacks and +1 to hit.
That said, could go even further by running them as White Scars!
Nope. Chaplain prayers go off at the start of the battle round. Deepstrike units can't benefit.
My understanding was that the Chaplain can only attempt to use a litany at the start of the battle round, the aura is still in effect once that's done. So a chaplain can still effect a deepstiking unit, as long as the effect doesn't require picking a unit once the litany is cast.
I actually read that as chaplain deepstriking as well, which would not work.
Yes, you could use the new chaplain that way and when it works, it'll be awesome. It's definitely not always gonna work though, especially with more sniper than ever kicking around the tables.
Impulsor with hellblasters inside is good if you also play with redemptor dreads, the new one or repulsor/repulsor executioner or aircraft in your lists. Your opponent might be tempted to shoot the Impulsor and kill the hellblasters that pour out instead of your other armor that you want to keep alive, and when they do, you have the shield dome. Id rather them shoot my shield dome with their anti tank high str guns instead of my Redemptor Dreads/repulsor any day of the week...
Crusaderobr wrote: Impulsor with hellblasters inside is good if you also play with redemptor dreads, the new one or repulsor/repulsor executioner or aircraft in your lists. Your opponent might be tempted to shoot the Impulsor and kill the hellblasters that pour out instead of your other armor that you want to keep alive, and when they do, you have the shield dome. Id rather them shoot my shield dome with their anti tank high str guns instead of my Redemptor Dreads/repulsor any day of the week...
Bingo. If your opponent has units that are more effective at killing infantry than vehicles, they may aim their anti-tank weapons as the Impulsors first to allow those units to pew-pew them, thereby leaving you Dreads, Repulsors, etc that much more alive for next turn.
IMO, the only downside to any of this is that the existence of the Impulsor really makes Marines want to go all mech (but it's subjective if that's even a downside)
With the move rule for transports, interestingly White Dwarf that's out this week has a column by Jervis discussing how people are often making understanding rules harder than they should because they aren't using them RAW or reading it wholly in context - taking single sentences.
Models disembarking with heavy weapons would count as moving , but otherwise those models can act as stated.
OverlyGrumpyTau wrote: Okay, so I haven't done too much digging because I'm worried about the results.
But did GW forget the Emperor's Spears exist in the codex?
Like did we get any updates the their tactic? Or even a mention?
Emperor's Spears don't exist "in the codex", they were a 1 card tactic and nothing more. I guarantee they won't get any update.
The Spears have been buffed, they are now a successor chapter with their entire old chapter trait as one of the two picks you can take from the create your own menu. No stratagems/characters/relics/traits are lost and you gain all the new tools.
OverlyGrumpyTau wrote: Okay, so I haven't done too much digging because I'm worried about the results.
But did GW forget the Emperor's Spears exist in the codex?
Like did we get any updates the their tactic? Or even a mention?
Emperor's Spears don't exist "in the codex", they were a 1 card tactic and nothing more. I guarantee they won't get any update.
The Spears have been buffed, they are now a successor chapter with their entire old chapter trait as one of the two picks you can take from the create your own menu. No stratagems/characters/relics/traits are lost and you gain all the new tools.
they're al;so an ultramarines sucessor so could if they wanted to just use the sweet sweet ultramarines rules.
TwilightSparkles wrote: With the move rule for transports, interestingly White Dwarf that's out this week has a column by Jervis discussing how people are often making understanding rules harder than they should because they aren't using them RAW or reading it wholly in context - taking single sentences.
Models disembarking with heavy weapons would count as moving , but otherwise those models can act as stated.
Maybe Jervis should spend less time complaining and more time writing rules properly? Or, because he's proven over decades he can't, spend time hiring someone who can?
