"Promo Rules
The challenge scenarios and associated cards will be provided via PDF November, 2015. Printed versions will be made available at a later date."
I prefer Model Masters (fancy Testor's) plastic model glue that comes in an odd-shaped (square with clipped corner) black bottle with a long metal dispensing tip for controlled application.
There are some tiny pieces and connection points that you don't want to flood.
Also, plastic glue melts plastic forming a "weld" of like materials creating a stronger bond than super glue which is the bond. YMMV, but, in my mind, I'd rather glue and paint once rather than again after a super glue join fails.
The testors stuff in the needle bottle. Once had a super-glued Malifaux model explode when it had slightly too much pressure in a case (since the stuff is still only a glue) and now only use the solvent/"weld" variety. Needle applicator is necessary for joins that small.
Myrthe wrote: I prefer Model Masters (fancy Testor's) plastic model glue that comes in an odd-shaped (square with clipped corner) black bottle with a long metal dispensing tip for controlled application.
There are some tiny pieces and connection points that you don't want to flood.
Also, plastic glue melts plastic forming a "weld" of like materials creating a stronger bond than super glue which is the bond. YMMV, but, in my mind, I'd rather glue and paint once rather than again after a super glue join fails.
Yup, that's the good stuff. Plus, it melts acrylic paint the same way, so you don't have to worry about sloppy painting weakening connection points if you're painting something in sub-assemblies.
I've built plenty of kits produced by WGF (DFG, Malifaux), so I have every confidence that the casting quality will be excellent.
Normally, I build with Testors gel (in the orange tube), and have been building HIPS polystyrene with the stuff for decades. I'm pretty comfortable with it, and got pretty decent results for Robotech.
KD:M models are pretty tiny, and seem a bit less forgiving on seams. I wonder if I should switch to liquid for thinner joints.
The gel is good to work with and helps fill gaps when parts don't fit together precisely; only downside is a bit of thin white chalky residue as it dries - easily wiped clean or painted over without consequence. Have used this for all manner of materials, too, and not just miniatures.
The liquid version applies relatively thin and bonds well. Application is not as fine as I'd like sometimes, but I've learned to work with it. Still good control out the bottle.
I'm gonna have to try a fine applicator glue like the Testors stuff, probably plastic glue/cement specifically. Looks like what I need for KD.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Normally, I build with Testors gel (in the orange tube), and have been building HIPS polystyrene with the stuff for decades. I'm pretty comfortable with it, and got pretty decent results for Robotech.
KD:M models are pretty tiny, and seem a bit less forgiving on seams. I wonder if I should switch to liquid for thinner joints.
You lose that, and your dip dries, you're up gak creek.
I just found a bottle of that in a models case I hadn't opened in 3-4 years. Still seems liquid, but I didn't try to squeeze any out. Probably still perfectly liquid due to a well stoppered applicator tube (Dried shut I mean.)
You lose that, and your dip dries, you're up gak creek.
Can't find this stuff for sale in UK, thinking about picking up the Tamiya Cement that comes in a little bottle and is applied with a brush.... how does this stuff compare?
You lose that, and your dip dries, you're up gak creek.
Can't find this stuff for sale in UK, thinking about picking up the Tamiya Cement that comes in a little bottle and is applied with a brush.... how does this stuff compare?
I've had both and I recommend needle over brush. Much more precise. Get GWs thin plastic glue, it's like the model master one.
Wehrkind wrote: Probably still perfectly liquid due to a well stoppered applicator tube (Dried shut I mean.)
Apparently (I've never had the problem so haven't tried it), very carefully running a lighter along the applicator pin thing can burn it out. I'd of course try it w/ good ventilation since, well, solvents.
anab0lic wrote: Can't find this stuff for sale in UK, thinking about picking up the Tamiya Cement that comes in a little bottle and is applied with a brush.... how does this stuff compare?
I'd recommend you get Revell Contacta Pro in the UK/Europe, it is exactly fit for purpose and has a needle applicator as well. I've seen some absolutely perfectly assembled KDM models which were glued together with it and I use it for all plastic work as it is unsurpassed.
Does it surprise anyone? The forum is seething with white knights, its so annoying. You point out that Adams comments on making an update are rather hollow and everyone gets pissy.
RE: white knights, personally I think this stuff looks amazing, but it'll really depend on rules execution. If it turns out to be about as good as it looks, I won't give him that much gak about being obnoxiously slow.
If the game's anything less than solidly good, though, I expect all a huge amount of that good will will dry up and blow away, since it is insanely late and the dominant excuse has been perfectionism, which at that point would be ego tripping at most generous. Plus, you know, the price tag.
And if this game secretly turns out to be Myth but with good models (positively reviewed and flashy, but with clunky and poorly written/completely untested-feeling rules), I know I'll be seething mad and expect I won't be the only one.
spiralingcadaver wrote: RE: white knights, personally I think this stuff looks amazing, but it'll really depend on rules execution. If it turns out to be about as good as it looks, I won't give him that much gak about being obnoxiously slow.
If the game's anything less than solidly good, though, I expect all a huge amount of that good will will dry up and blow away, since it is insanely late and the dominant excuse has been perfectionism, which at that point would be ego tripping at most generous. Plus, you know, the price tag.
And if this game secretly turns out to be Myth but with good models (positively reviewed and flashy, but with clunky and poorly written/completely untested-feeling rules), I know I'll be seething mad and expect I won't be the only one.
During the KS, I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
As the rules and game components consumed ever more of the time to deliver, the expectation for the game portion increased as well. The hush hush of the game gives me some concern.
If we had just wanted (and gotten) models, Adam could have shipped that many months ago. I seem to recall that the resins were ready over a year ago, and I'm not so sure that the plastics were that far behind.
Anyhow, for how long I've waited, I sure hope the game portion justifies the additional delay.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
I got a shipping notification for my "small reward" today. It's been so long I can't even remember what I ordered.
I'm still on the fence whether I should just sell this stuff on ebay once It's all here. The near three year wait has meant I've long since lost all interet in the game. But I figure I'll wait until it's out in the world and maybe there's some demo videos up before deciding.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
Your on the wrong forum, I think you want the official KS page...
I went in on models as well with the hope of a decent board game. It doesn't feel like a board game anymore. It feels like an even bigger commitment than D&D but with the luxury of not needing a DM and you can play by yourself.
I never liked the fact that more and more content was being added, but people on the official forum were eating it up, and Adam kept telling everyone it was not adding to the time frame, so he kept packing more and more in. It clearly grew the box to 17lbs and then it was crushing the card trays...
I have a feeling Im going to have alot of extra stuff that's not going to get touched that could have been left out of the core box.
I also think as your time line drags out you should be posting more updates not less. It seems you would wish to calm fears after your 2 years late rather than avoid everyone and their issues, talk about an update in July and then not deliver 2 months later.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
Your on the wrong forum, I think you want the official KS page...
I went in on models as well with the hope of a decent board game. It doesn't feel like a board game anymore. It feels like an even bigger commitment than D&D but with the luxury of not needing a DM and you can play by yourself.
I never liked the fact that more and more content was being added, but people on the official forum were eating it up, and Adam kept telling everyone it was not adding to the time frame, so he kept packing more and more in. It clearly grew the box to 17lbs and then it was crushing the card trays...
I have a feeling Im going to have alot of extra stuff that's not going to get touched that could have been left out of the core box.
I also think as your time line drags out you should be posting more updates not less. It seems you would wish to calm fears after your 2 years late rather than avoid everyone and their issues, talk about an update in July and then not deliver 2 months later.
Maybe not?
I was in this for the models AND the game - and it looks like both things are going to meet my expectations...
Given that KD:M is now shipping 2 Waves to each backer, Adam could have started shipping the resins and core models with the lightweight game as originally previewed over a year ago.
Expansions and stretch goal add-ons (both resin and plastic) would have started shipping 6 months ago.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
Agreed.
Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.
I backed primarily for the models. It was something like 95% plasti-crack and 5% a game to use it in.
We can't know that people backed only for the miniatures or only for the game or a combination of both. Obtaining that kind of Knowledge - notice the uppercase - is difficult. But as not much of the game had been revealed, then I'd think it safe to assume the models were a pretty big part of why people pledge. Not something we should assume in general, but in this case feels like a fair assessment. At least, I know I wouldn't have pledged if the models were styled similar to Privateer Press or Games Workshop lines, all else being equal.
At this point I'm equal parts excited for both miniatures and game, though. Really happy with this thus far.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
Agreed.
Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.
Why would you have backed primarily for the board game, that no one really knew anything about up until a few months ago... I would lean way more to the assumption side of miniatures on this one vs say Zombicide where they have a track record on board games already.
Also considering a HUGE portion of this KS was selling people Pinup models and out of stock resins.
So ya, assuming people backed this for the models is a pretty safe bet.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
Agreed.
Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.
Why would you have backed primarily for the board game, that no one really knew anything about up until a few months ago... I would lean way more to the assumption side of miniatures on this one vs say Zombicide where they have a track record on board games already.
Also considering a HUGE portion of this KS was selling people Pinup models and out of stock resins.
So ya, assuming people backed this for the models is a pretty safe bet.
Because there are lots of gamers who won't back just for the sake of models, they'll back because they have something they want to do (play) with the models (even if it isn't the game that a given KS is pushing).
As Dentry said, nobody knows exactly why each of the five to seven thousand+ backers (don't forget the Black Friday people) gave their money to this project years in advance. You can make assumptions, but assumptions are exactly that and easily prone to being wrong. Pretending to speak for "the majority" is no different than going "I speak for Dakka when I say that..." which five seconds on this site would reveal as false due to the spectrum of opinion on any topic; there is no "backer hive-mind" where those who disagree with you are clearly some sort of heretical sect. Reality is a lot more nuanced.
I would have backed just for the models, but I would have not backed for anywhere near as *much* without a game to go with it. You can sift through tons of comments by people who only ordered items with game content and skipped everything else; clearly the game was just throwaway content to them? In actuality it may be, but you'd have to ask each of them. You'll also find plenty of examples of people who couldn't care about the game in the slightest and just want their models. If you look hard enough, there are also people who probably would have been content getting the rules (printing being dramatically faster than miniatures) and the models can show up whenever they want. While I personally find it hard to fathom that there were people who backed *solely* for the game content and plan on tossing the miniatures immediately, that is a possibility.
However, that was the deal at the start, and is the package deal of most KickStarters. You are backing a project, and in the miniatures game space that project probably includes things you may not care to have or that add no value to you personally. Such is the deal presented, and it's up to the individual to decide if it's worth it to them or not. Accepting the offering and providing funding gives you the right to complain about delays in a general sense, certainly, but I'm not sure it entitles anyone to complain that the project creator isn't catering to their preferences in how they fulfill things.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.
Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?
Agreed.
Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.
Why would you have backed primarily for the board game, that no one really knew anything about up until a few months ago... I would lean way more to the assumption side of miniatures on this one vs say Zombicide where they have a track record on board games already.
Also considering a HUGE portion of this KS was selling people Pinup models and out of stock resins.
So ya, assuming people backed this for the models is a pretty safe bet.
OOOORRRRR you were like me who wanted a game that reminded me of a delux version of Mordheim. Sexy models were a bonus sooooooo... yea. Points at assumptions.
Krinsath wrote:However, that was the deal at the start, and is the package deal of most KickStarters. You are backing a project, and in the miniatures game space that project probably includes things you may not care to have or that add no value to you personally.
Nicely put. Just like the cable companies, not allowing me to cherry pick my ~7 channels.
Mymearan wrote:The models were what prevented me from backing what looks to be a pretty great game :(
I backed for a game that with my group played once a month maybe able to spill out over two years. I only picked those miniatures that had game content, so still was looking at adding to the game. I hope the AI concept works well enough for solo play as that too was part of my interest. I did not like the hush hush part of the rule set, but the playtesters were somewhat active on the forums and comments sections. Only time will tell.
I backed for a chance to get some of the gorgeous models at far cheaper prices than what they had been available for before. As it went, the info about the game drew me in for more.
Regardless of why anyone backed, I'm confident that we'll be satisfied. The few kits that backers have received seem to be top quality, and those who played the demos at GenCon said that the game was fun to play.
I backed as soon as I saw the gameplay demos. the idea of a board game, mmo hybrid//dungeon crawler got me hooked. I dislike the pinup models but I won't state my opinion on those. The armor kits and being able to customize my survivors is what made this icing on the cake.
If I could of got a refund a year ago I would of due to communication alone, Adam Poots' communication is pathetic and the white knighting makes me sick. In the end as long as I get my pledge and the gameplay is fun I will be happy, I am sure I will easily make some of my money back selling a lot of the freebies I got.
My total pledge was every expansion sans the Tree and a Survivor pledge.
Krinsath wrote:However, that was the deal at the start, and is the package deal of most KickStarters. You are backing a project, and in the miniatures game space that project probably includes things you may not care to have or that add no value to you personally.
Nicely put. Just like the cable companies, not allowing me to cherry pick my ~7 channels.
Mymearan wrote:The models were what prevented me from backing what looks to be a pretty great game :(
It was the penis monsters, wasn't it?
That and the sexualized figures, yep. I really hope Adam does another game with a different esthetic but the same amazing sculpt and technical quality.
I backed 99% for the models, 1% for the artwork and hope of a good game. I was not bothered by the "sexy" pinups, nor the anatomic monsters.
Over the years, I don't think that has changed that much, simply because the game itself hasn't had a lot of detail until this past GenCon. Even then, the gaming previews were just a snippet of the overall campaign picture. On the models front, I am delighted with the big monsters, which is why I added them to my pledge - the few $ extra were totally worth it to see before adding. I'm also very happy with the look of the armor kits, although I am disappointed that Adam chose to add more weapon bitz and masks that will sit unused, instead of extra torso and legs that could make a 3rd male and/or 3rd female. Also the smooth backs are creepy, and I won't use them. I'd say I'm more like 90% models / 10% artwork & game today.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I backed 99% for the models, 1% for the artwork and hope of a good game. I was not bothered by the "sexy" pinups, nor the anatomic monsters.
Over the years, I don't think that has changed that much, simply because the game itself hasn't had a lot of detail until this past GenCon. Even then, the gaming previews were just a snippet of the overall campaign picture. On the models front, I am delighted with the big monsters, which is why I added them to my pledge - the few $ extra were totally worth it to see before adding. I'm also very happy with the look of the armor kits, although I am disappointed that Adam chose to add more weapon bitz and masks that will sit unused, instead of extra torso and legs that could make a 3rd male and/or 3rd female. Also the smooth backs are creepy, and I won't use them. I'd say I'm more like 90% models / 10% artwork & game today.
He said from the outset his goal was, effectively, to make Monster Hunter the board game. We may not have known specifics, but there was plenty regarding gameplay.
We get that you don't back games for the games. I think it's odd, but whatever shakes your tree.
Believe it or not, there ARE plenty of us that are backing for the whole package, INCLUDING the game.
I pledged for both the figs and the game. If there was no game i probably would have pledged for a lot fewer figs (likely just some of the pin-ups), but i know i would have still bought some.
For me it really was about a 50/50 split on desire for the figs and game. The reports from Gencon are promising, and the figs look every bit as nice as i had hoped.
Either way, at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel!
I was in this for the models AND the game - and it looks like both things are going to meet my expectations...
...I hope!
Same here. The models are beautiful, and the game looks like it could be fun--maybe not for my board game club, but I still want to run a Dwarf Fortress style forum game where different people take turns at running the same settlement. And if it's the worst case scenario and it sucks, I can sell the whole lot off, and probably easily make my pledge back.
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Chopxsticks wrote: Does it surprise anyone? The forum is seething with white knights, its so annoying. You point out that Adams comments on making an update are rather hollow and everyone gets pissy.
Dude, if you want to talk about bad communications or communities, I backed the Exalted 3e Kickstarter, which is also set to beat out KD as the most ludicrously delayed one I've backed. Maybe that's numbed me.
I pledged for minis. Unless there's a lot of fluff and sumptuous artwork on them, I'll sell off the gaming components to whoever wants them. If there are tiles, I'll sell them to the highest bidder.
And in actual news a sneek peek at a non KS expansion
Sneak Peak!
As a treat between rounds of packing we have been play testing the Nightmare Ram expansion! It has some more "classic" dungeon crawling elements and right now the Monster loves to slam you through unexplored rooms and directly into spikes! We are messing with cold climates and giant Hissing Cockroaches filled with boiling water, to you know... keep you warm at night.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I pledged for minis. Unless there's a lot of fluff and sumptuous artwork on them, I'll sell off the gaming components to whoever wants them. If there are tiles, I'll sell them to the highest bidder.
Breaking my heart. I am, however, quite interested ;-)
You have to admit, the update art was a nice touch. Got my package with some pin-ups, though had to put in a correction order. My Kara Black fig was missing.
Chopxsticks wrote: It really seems that kickstarter backer and people who ordered last month will be receiving their games at the same time. Is what it is I suppose.
Functionally you are correct; backers and pre-orders will be getting them so close in proximity as to be the same time and I can see where some pre-orders right near the shipper will get it before more remote backers even if the latter were sent first.
On the other hand, backers saved $40-60 per year on the price of the core game (varying with how one decides what dates to use) versus the pre-orders, and are getting freebies that the pre-orders do not get with Wave 1, which may include Herald of Death freebies depending on individual pledge amount. Additionally, backers are also getting paid extras that the pre-orders do not have any access to yet, but naturally an option is a nebulous thing when discussing such matters; if you didn't buy any of that stuff then the access wasn't worth anything.
I can see where it may rankle if you examine the shipping window of the big ticket item of the project in isolation, but from a wider view there's still perks that backers get over late-comers. How those different factors compare is, as always, in the sight of the individual.
It's a little annoying, but yeah, Krinsath has it right- having sent out a bunch of custom packages to a tiny fraction of the crowd behind this, I know it's be a nightmare to fulfill based on anything other than similar packages at the same time.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So the next thing that's shipping is the core game, right? All the expansions (gorm, various knights, dragon king, etc) are all next year?
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So the next thing that's shipping is the core game, right? All the expansions (gorm, various knights, dragon king, etc) are all next year?
There is a small chance that they ship a few (very simple) Expansion orders this year, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I read Adam's "January 2016" and mentally replaced it with "1st Quarter 2016", just as I read "summer, 2015" as "late Q3, 2015". As it turned out, I was lucky to actually receive my 2 pinups at the very tail of Q3. That worked very well for my mental state.
I think Adam will be shipping Wave 1 for the rest of September, possibly going into October. At that point, he'll have his hands full dealing with Wave 2 and any screwups. Then it'll be the mid-November, and everybody will be exhausted, with no time to push expansions out for X-mas, so Q1.
Of course, if I get the Expansions as an X-mas present, I will be completely delighted. In this KS, I my hopes and expectations are for quality, not promptness.
I will be pleasantly surprised if my Core game arrives in October, but I have also mentally prepared myself to receive it late November/ possibly December
It looked like from the update that they'll be shipping the next wave (core game) starting very soon here - does that mean they'll be done shipping the first wave?
Still no word on my order of pin-ups and misc one-offs.
My understanding was they are still working on Wave 1, and they have only shipped 1500 orders... which if one assumes every ba backer is getting something wave 1, thats 5000 orders. If it took them a month to do 1500 orders I would think its going to be awhile still...
Just got my box. Missing four models (strangely, they were the last four listed on the packing list, possibly a connection? Also, there was a small bag of gummy bears in the box.
There was one model I had to puzzle over, as it was the one sprue that wasn't actually labeled (all of the other sprues have the model name printed on it). I thought it might have been one of the missing models, but after Googling each one of them, one of the pictures that did show up matched what I got: a plastic White Speaker. I wasn't sure about that, as it wasn't on my packing list, but it was in the email I received listing what was being sent.
I actually got two extra models, and one I do not recognize, but have already in resin, just forgot who she is. My t-shirt is now too large for me as I have lost 70lbs since this Kickstarter began.
Ulsif wrote: I actually got two extra models, and one I do not recognize, but have already in resin, just forgot who she is. My t-shirt is now too large for me as I have lost 70lbs since this Kickstarter began.
Shame about the shirt, but awesome on bettering yourself in the process!
I'm still not sure if I was supposed to get my plastic Twilight Knight now or with the game. I'm sure it'll be a while before they get around to fixing order errors too.
Is it wrong of me to hope that people start dumping some of these plastics on ebay for reasonable prices to tide me over? I want a Messenger of the Spiral now.
Ulsif wrote: I actually got two extra models, and one I do not recognize, but have already in resin, just forgot who she is. My t-shirt is now too large for me as I have lost 70lbs since this Kickstarter began.
Congrats on the box, bummer on the T-shirt but congrats again on the weight loss!
Random thought...when they get to the armor kit orders are they shipping all the armor kits that were ordered "loose", even those not in the Core box? If so, that might make the wait for my shipping notice go by a bit easier as I'm reasonably sure I'm getting extra Dragon King armor. Suppose I could dig up my receipt and check...
Ulsif wrote: I actually got two extra models, and one I do not recognize, but have already in resin, just forgot who she is. My t-shirt is now too large for me as I have lost 70lbs since this Kickstarter began.
Shame about the shirt, but awesome on bettering yourself in the process!
Yes, Grats on the weight loss!
Is it wrong of me to hope that people start dumping some of these plastics on ebay for reasonable prices to tide me over? I want a Messenger of the Spiral now.
You can hope, but if it's like anything else KD on eBay you're going to be disappointed.
Ulsif wrote: I actually got two extra models, and one I do not recognize, but have already in resin, just forgot who she is. My t-shirt is now too large for me as I have lost 70lbs since this Kickstarter began.
Shame about the shirt, but awesome on bettering yourself in the process!
I'm still not sure if I was supposed to get my plastic Twilight Knight now or with the game. I'm sure it'll be a while before they get around to fixing order errors too.
Is it wrong of me to hope that people start dumping some of these plastics on ebay for reasonable prices to tide me over? I want a Messenger of the Spiral now.
If you got the game the twilight knight will be with that, she's only coming with this wave for people who didn't get the main box
Mine was all correct including the t-shirt size. I did get Allison even though I got the main game as well, so we'll see what happens with that next time. I also got two versions of the White Speaker, this one: http://gallery.kingdomdeath.com/White-Speaker and the seated "holiday" one, so I assume that's intentional.
ecurtz wrote: Mine was all correct including the t-shirt size. I did get Allison even though I got the main game as well, so we'll see what happens with that next time. I also got two versions of the White Speaker, this one: http://gallery.kingdomdeath.com/White-Speaker and the seated "holiday" one, so I assume that's intentional.
It isn't on the White Speaker, count... but I got the exact same mispack. Who knows? :-p
Well, I've got the $30 or so pledge with the exclusive survivors and the digital artbook. I know i have some of the messengers, Kingsmen, green knight armor, dragon armor, and a handful of expansions. Shouldn't I be in wave 1 shipping for my non expansion stuff?
Barzam wrote: Well, I've got the $30 or so pledge with the exclusive survivors and the digital artbook. I know i have some of the messengers, Kingsmen, green knight armor, dragon armor, and a handful of expansions. Shouldn't I be in wave 1 shipping for my non expansion stuff?
The 'loose' armour kits will ship this wave, but they have yet to deal with any orders including them (or any of the resins either) so I think you'll be waiting a few weeks more for them
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Sinful Hero wrote: Were the Adam and Anna figures supposed to be included? I assumed those would be coming with the game box
If you ordered extras of Adam & Anna they'll be coming now (I've seen one report from somebody who has them on their shipping email), but if you're just getting them as part of a Survivor pledge they come with the game box
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Schmapdi wrote: Oh yeah - have we gotten word of the digital art book? That's really one of the things I'm most excited to see.
I think (and this is not official, just my opinion) that we won't see that until everything including the expansions has shipped to avoid spoilers as much as possible
I didn't order an Adam and Anna, but am getting the game and piles of expansions, and yet I got mine in my Wave 1 box. There's definitely a lot of mispacking going on, but mercifully it seems like most people's mispacks are in consumer favor... which is weirdly refreshing. :-p
I've assembled 7 of the models I received. The parts go together beautifully. GW can certainly stand to learn a few things from WGF about how to cut a model for mold tooling and assembly. The Watcher was a slightly difficult one, as it was harder to figure out where each little "streamer thingie" attached (couldn't find any instructions online, had to use a couple pics of the finished model as a go-by).
Also, with these models and some of the really fine connection points, plastic glue is a godsend. I'm using the Testor's Model Master bottle that has the metal needle-like head for precise application. Superglue would be difficult for some of this stuff. The Phoenix Dancer, for example, connects to the base at the front halves of her feet, which isn't much more than a square millimeter each.
But, still, these models are completely amazing so far.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I've assembled 7 of the models I received. The parts go together beautifully. GW can certainly stand to learn a few things from WGF about how to cut a model for mold tooling and assembly. The Watcher was a slightly difficult one, as it was harder to figure out where each little "streamer thingie" attached (couldn't find any instructions online, had to use a couple pics of the finished model as a go-by).
Also, with these models and some of the really fine connection points, plastic glue is a godsend. I'm using the Testor's Model Master bottle that has the metal needle-like head for precise application. Superglue would be difficult for some of this stuff. The Phoenix Dancer, for example, connects to the base at the front halves of her feet, which isn't much more than a square millimeter each.
But, still, these models are completely amazing so far.
Funny, coming from putting together some of the End Times figures and the new Goretide models from the AoS stater, after putting together my Watcher, felt the exact opposite. Was thinking GW would have made the Watchers cloak in more layered pieces. Was the first figure of the several I got in my batch. Having put the Pinup of Death set together earlier, those didn't strike me as being anywhere as near as GW is.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I've assembled 7 of the models I received. The parts go together beautifully. GW can certainly stand to learn a few things from WGF about how to cut a model for mold tooling and assembly. The Watcher was a slightly difficult one, as it was harder to figure out where each little "streamer thingie" attached (couldn't find any instructions online, had to use a couple pics of the finished model as a go-by).
Also, with these models and some of the really fine connection points, plastic glue is a godsend. I'm using the Testor's Model Master bottle that has the metal needle-like head for precise application. Superglue would be difficult for some of this stuff. The Phoenix Dancer, for example, connects to the base at the front halves of her feet, which isn't much more than a square millimeter each.
But, still, these models are completely amazing so far.
Funny, coming from putting together some of the End Times figures and the new Goretide models from the AoS stater, after putting together my Watcher, felt the exact opposite. Was thinking GW would have made the Watchers cloak in more layered pieces. Was the first figure of the several I got in my batch. Having put the Pinup of Death set together earlier, those didn't strike me as being anywhere as near as GW is.
It all depends on what your priority is in a model. If you care about ornate designs with ease of assembly, GW's approach is generally better. GW tends to have the clever compromise of detail versus parts variety where you don't notice the loss of the latter as much until you start putting down dozens of models from the same kit next to each other. Their approach generally keeps the part count low and for some people that is more important. The freebie Sigmarine is only 4 parts (not counting the base) and is a reasonably detailed model. For someone not concerned with modelling, this is a much better option as it's not tons of effort just to get to the painting stage; you can knock out whole units very fast.
Where WGF is ahead at the moment is with those detailed multi-part kits with the caveat of "when someone else designs them." WGF's own designs seem to be a bit lackluster though as sort of "cheap bulk unit fodder" that may be intentional; similar to GW emphasizing ease of assembly, WGF may have chosen to prioritize price over appearance. However, take a DFG kit such as the Leviathan and compare to the Knight, or the Keilerkopf APC compared to any of GW's transports or the DFG stormtroopers compared to GW's troop kits. Aesthetics aside, almost every one of those comparisons from an engineering standpoint is in DFG's favor IMO (and WGF by extension). You could likely, through the use of the Accessory and/or Panzerjager kit, make an entire Imperial Guard infantry force with completely unique models without doing anything more involved than part swaps. Doing that with GW troops is a bit more of a challenge. Posing a Knight is an adventure in sawing, posing a Leviathan is...well it's just about designed to be posed however you want it to be.
GW may not offer that level of customization, but that comes with a commensurate increase in assembly time; someone can probably build a Knight in nearly no time at all, but that Leviathan will be several hours of build time even if you know how it goes together. The same holds true of the infantry; Cadians are 5 parts while storm troopers are 10 each.
So my thoughts on it would be if you're primarily a gamer, GW's design approach is probably going to be more appealing. If you're a modeller, the variety and customization of the WGF-engineered kits are more likely to win out. In the case of Kingdom Death, I think the WGF approach is the superior option since the game is about individual characters and the variety and customization of the armor kit system is going to be very much appreciated as players tailor their survivors exactly how they want them. That said, the GW design approach to the monsters may not have gone amiss either, as those have much less variety during gameplay.If it had to be one or the other though, I'm glad it's going the way it did.
Krinsath wrote: Aesthetics aside, almost every one of those comparisons from an engineering standpoint is in DFG's favor IMO (and WGF by extension). You could likely, through the use of the Accessory and/or Panzerjager kit, make an entire Imperial Guard infantry force with completely unique models without doing anything more involved than part swaps. Doing that with GW troops is a bit more of a challenge. Posing a Knight is an adventure in sawing, posing a Leviathan is...well it's just about designed to be posed however you want it to be.
Seconded - I have a DFG Leviathan, and it was/is easy to pose.
I also have an Eldar Wraithknight. Even if you cut the locking tabs, it's a bear to pose - it was designed as a static model, so the joints have far less range of motion than they should. It is mind-boggling terrible how poorly the joints were designed.
Just got my package today. Panicked at first, because the packing slip was wrong, but the contents were correct.
The models I got (White Speaker and Kara Black) look fantastic. Casting quality seems to be excellent. There are a looooot of fiddly bits, but that was expected. They'll look great when assembled.
I will say, I didn't realize how big they were going to be. Both figures are going to be quite tall. Kara Black is head-and-shoulders taller than the Malifaux Guild Rifleman I compared her to. These are definitely at least 35mm scale. I honestly don't think they'll proxy into other systems well at all.
Ask, and ye shall receive. I'm not much good at taking pics, but here's what I've assembled so far, not including the Watcher (it's about 1.5 times the height of one of the regular minis). Random Space Marine for scale purposes.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I guess it depends on what you plan to proxy them as in other systems. In 40K, for example, the standard squatting marine (pictured above) is 28mm. A marine standing fully upright is 32mm. And then Primarchs and other major characters can be even taller.
Thanks for the pics. Using the 25mm GW base for measuring the pinups, it looks like the KD:M figs are around 37mm to the eyes, and overall height of a pinup is something like to 42-43mm tall?
It all depends on what your priority is in a model. If you care about ornate designs with ease of assembly, GW's approach is generally better. GW tends to have the clever compromise of detail versus parts variety where you don't notice the loss of the latter as much until you start putting down dozens of models from the same kit next to each other. Their approach generally keeps the part count low and for some people that is more important. The freebie Sigmarine is only 4 parts (not counting the base) and is a reasonably detailed model. For someone not concerned with modelling, this is a much better option as it's not tons of effort just to get to the painting stage; you can knock out whole units very fast.
Where WGF is ahead at the moment is with those detailed multi-part kits with the caveat of "when someone else designs them." WGF's own designs seem to be a bit lackluster though as sort of "cheap bulk unit fodder" that may be intentional; similar to GW emphasizing ease of assembly, WGF may have chosen to prioritize price over appearance. However, take a DFG kit such as the Leviathan and compare to the Knight, or the Keilerkopf APC compared to any of GW's transports or the DFG stormtroopers compared to GW's troop kits. Aesthetics aside, almost every one of those comparisons from an engineering standpoint is in DFG's favor IMO (and WGF by extension). You could likely, through the use of the Accessory and/or Panzerjager kit, make an entire Imperial Guard infantry force with completely unique models without doing anything more involved than part swaps. Doing that with GW troops is a bit more of a challenge. Posing a Knight is an adventure in sawing, posing a Leviathan is...well it's just about designed to be posed however you want it to be.
GW may not offer that level of customization, but that comes with a commensurate increase in assembly time; someone can probably build a Knight in nearly no time at all, but that Leviathan will be several hours of build time even if you know how it goes together. The same holds true of the infantry; Cadians are 5 parts while storm troopers are 10 each.
So my thoughts on it would be if you're primarily a gamer, GW's design approach is probably going to be more appealing. If you're a modeller, the variety and customization of the WGF-engineered kits are more likely to win out. In the case of Kingdom Death, I think the WGF approach is the superior option since the game is about individual characters and the variety and customization of the armor kit system is going to be very much appreciated as players tailor their survivors exactly how they want them. That said, the GW design approach to the monsters may not have gone amiss either, as those have much less variety during gameplay.If it had to be one or the other though, I'm glad it's going the way it did.
You obviously haven't put any of the figures I mentioned together if you are only referring to freebie Sigmarine as an example. Several of the AoS starter figures were definitely not beginner figures and one of the big complaints about the AoS starter box is that isn't geared towards entry level hobbyists. While an OTT model, the Khorne BSB is cut in such a way and with a number of pieces that give depth, space, and appearance of undercut that none of the KD models I have put together have come close to equaling. I am far more impressed with how organic figures are done by GW.
And as for variability, the Stormtroopers are no more variable then a standard space marine. Both have the same basic piece count at 10 each. It's been that way since the plastic space marines started coming out over 15 years ago. You can swap between all the chapters no problem.
Plus, all the posing you talk about isn't in any of the KD figures. If anything, you are making it sound like KD is a massive step down from WGF earlier works. All I can say to that is, it is not true. I will take a gorgeous single pose model over an average multi-pose model. The KD models are gorgeous and all I can imagine what awesome insanity could be done with the KD designs and GW's plastic technology.
You obviously haven't put any of the figures I mentioned together if you are only referring to freebie Sigmarine as an example. Several of the AoS starter figures were definitely not beginner figures and one of the big complaints about the AoS starter box is that isn't geared towards entry level hobbyists. While an OTT model, the Khorne BSB is cut in such a way and with a number of pieces that give depth, space, and appearance of undercut that none of the KD models I have put together have come close to equaling. I am far more impressed with how organic figures are done by GW.
I believe my post gives the nod to GW on mono-pose models so this really isn't a point we disagree on. GW has decided on a design approach that suits their vision and they are quite good at it now. I'm not sure how one could find fault with the engineering; only with the design approach itself which again boils down to the individual's priorities.
silent25 wrote: And as for variability, the Stormtroopers are no more variable then a standard space marine. Both have the same basic piece count at 10 each. It's been that way since the plastic space marines started coming out over 15 years ago. You can swap between all the chapters no problem.
The point is not about part count, it's about how variable those parts are and how well the inter-operate. The Space Marine range is without a doubt GW's best offering in the multi-part realm for breadth of choice. However, they are not particularly versatile from a modelling perspective. Take your basic bolter marine. There's a finite number of things you can do with him, especially without bringing in multitudes of kits. With 2 DFG kits (stormtrooper + accessory), I can make a platoon with the sergeant giving tactical hand-signs, one fire-team clearly reacting to that with another preparing to be base-of-fire. Does that make one bit of difference in a game versus all the troopers in the same 3 poses? Not in the slightest which IMO is likely why GW doesn't prioritize it. From a modelling perspective though, being able to have a kit that tells a story without speaking a word is a huge asset. In a game like Kingdom Death, that element of story-telling IS the point of the miniatures, hence why I'm glad that they didn't crib from GW's notes when it came to the survivors.
silent25 wrote: Plus, all the posing you talk about isn't in any of the KD figures. If anything, you are making it sound like KD is a massive step down from WGF earlier works. All I can say to that is, it is not true. I will take a gorgeous single pose model over an average multi-pose model. The KD models are gorgeous and all I can imagine what awesome insanity could be done with the KD designs and GW's plastic technology.
To my knowledge, we've not seen the multi-part KD models in the wild (i.e. - the armor kits). The monopose models are monopose models. GW's design philosphy and practice gives them an edge on those, not their plastic technology. I know WGF employs slide-core tools for true undercuts on some of their sprues; I do not believe GW does (though they are again very skillful in compensating for this). I look forward to seeing what's possible with the armor kits to see if WGF was able to transfer the expertise of multi-part they demonstrated with DFG or if we get the "smooth back" disappointment on more than just the naked survivors.
Krinsath wrote: To my knowledge, we've not seen the multi-part KD models in the wild (i.e. - the armor kits).
The monopose models are monopose models. GW's design philosphy and practice gives them an edge on those, not their plastic technology.
I know WGF employs slide-core tools for true undercuts on some of their sprues; I do not believe GW does (though they are again very skillful in compensating for this).
I look forward to seeing what's possible with the armor kits to see if WGF was able to transfer the expertise of multi-part they demonstrated with DFG or if we get the "smooth back" disappointment on more than just the naked survivors.
If you go through the KD:M Updates, there are pictures of actual models, or at least proofs.
GW does OK on monopose models, but I wouldn't say GW has the edge, at least, not based on my experience with the WraithKnight. I would say that GW designs their models as monopose first, in that there are a relatively limited number of ways their kits go together for best appearance and posing.
GW used slides in the Baneblade secondary weapon barrels, but this is the exception that proves the rule.
The smooth backs are a gross oversight by Adam that I do not understand, given the attention to detail in other areas. Or maybe, in KD:M world, every day is chest day, but never a back day?
I'm no expert, especially cause none of my figures have arrived yet, but I get the feeling the flat back syndrome was a limitation of wanting to keep everything as modular as possible, including all the gigantic shoulder guards. I dont believe we heard any response about this from Adam, but it's my explanation. At least for now
greywulf wrote: I'm no expert, especially cause none of my figures have arrived yet, but I get the feeling the flat back syndrome was a limitation of wanting to keep everything as modular as possible, including all the gigantic shoulder guards. I dont believe we heard any response about this from Adam, but it's my explanation. At least for now
I share this theory/hope.
Also JHDD, I know they armor kits are in the updates having drooled over them many a time, but I don't know that we've seen what's possible to do outside of the "studio." I have a feeling when the wider community get their hands on them we'll start to see how versatile the kits are (or not, though obviously I hope that's not the case). I look forward to seeing what people's creativity makes happen.
I can't imagine how flat backs improve modularity, as nothing attaches there. From what I recall, the armored and clothed models had no such restrictions on "flatness". Oh, well. It's not like I won't have other stuff to work in.
____
@Alphy - FWIW, I got my Tracking number a few days before it went live. I doubt the holiday did anybody any favors. I think you'll have your stuff before long..
Tracking packages outside the US is generally a real pita... At least from what I know. Only way I can send stuff with tracking is if I dole out <$45 for the super special shipping.... Maybe its different for businesses, though. Or maybe thats the magic of the "International Consolidator"
Have you tried googling the tracking number? Occasionally it'll recognize it (like for UPS, USPS, and FedEx) and point you in the right direction.
Ramos Asura wrote: Tracking packages outside the US is generally a real pita... At least from what I know. Only way I can send stuff with tracking is if I dole out <$45 for the super special shipping.... Maybe its different for businesses, though. Or maybe thats the magic of the "International Consolidator"
Have you tried googling the tracking number? Occasionally it'll recognize it (like for UPS, USPS, and FedEx) and point you in the right direction.
No dice.
Googling "International Consolidator" does lead to a site that seems to be about international shipping, but no visible way of doing tracking.
Micky wrote: Hey fellow international backers, have any of you figured out the tracking on the wave 1 shipment?
All i got in my email was "Your package will be delivered via International Consolidator" and a tracking number.
I can see mine here. http://www.trackitonline.ru just enter your your tracking number
The label was generated on the 2nd but it has yet to enter the postal system which seems to be normal based on what US backers have said
JohnHwangDD wrote: I can't imagine how flat backs improve modularity, as nothing attaches there. From what I recall, the armored and clothed models had no such restrictions on "flatness". Oh, well. It's not like I won't have other stuff to work in.
Agreed!
The "smooth back syndrome" has been, to date, the only real head scratching misstep.
@Alphy - FWIW, I got my Tracking number a few days before it went live. I doubt the holiday did anybody any favors. I think you'll have your stuff before long..
I hope so!
Well, I'll have it by tomorrow actually - time flies!
My wife and I had a funny realization when our box came, that when we ordered this, not only were we not married yet, we weren't even engaged! And we certainly didn't rush into marriage (five years of being together first), so that was kind of a fun thing to realize.
I received my stuff last week, but haven't had the chance to start any until now. I got:
Spoiler:
1 Spider Silk Assassin,
1 Phoenix Dancer,
1 free White Speaker,
1 Lantern Festival Girl (for my cousin),
1 Primal Huntress (cousin),
2 Allison, Twilight Knight (one for me, one for the wife),
and 2 Messenger of Courage (one for me, one for wife),
along with the shirt.
Sadly, I only received one Allison and one Messenger, so I emailed them about that and heard back within a few days. My wife is also bummed that she has to wait until wave three for her Regeneration Suit. These are lovely models, though!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, I have called and emailed about my mis pack and heard nothing. What is the next step I should take? Should I go directly to worrying?
I sent a email to the customer support email and got a response in a few days after getting my pack. I had the replacement fig in a week.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, I have called and emailed about my mis pack and heard nothing. What is the next step I should take? Should I go directly to worrying?
I sent a email to the customer support email and got a response in a few days after getting my pack. I had the replacement fig in a week.
Which email was customer support? I sent an email through the Contact Us page that seemed addressed to Adam.
Holy Crap. I just went to My UPS and there is a 22lb package shipping from San Leandro set to arrive next Tuesday. Reference number is Survivors, so this has to be it. I can't believe it.
Triple9 wrote: Holy Crap. I just went to My UPS and there is a 22lb package shipping from San Leandro set to arrive next Tuesday. Reference number is Survivors, so this has to be it. I can't believe it.
Same, I just got my UPS email, for a 22 lbs package.
i also got the magic email, and i'm not going to lie, it took me a bit to figure out what it was, since i was expecting this to not show for a couple more months, rather then next week
I keep checking my email over and over again and nothing.. I wonder what order they are doing this in. I also need to prepare the explanation to my wife.
I don't think there's much to worry about as they are coming from different sources - so if you've received the 'main box' notification before your 'small rewards' notification, it should be OK for now.
That sounds about right. I'm still waiting on a wave one email myself, but I'm pretty sure I have some resins in it. From what I understand that's wave 1.3, after 1.1 (plastic extras) and international backers (plastic extras). So after thats all sorted, we should be seeing something. Hopefully!
Nice, got my shipping notice, w delivery slated for 9/22/15. Just gotta remind my wife it was ordered years ago lol. She's placed me on kickstarter austerity.
JohnHwangDD wrote: OK, so right now it's Wave 1a - Survivor Games with Resin
I don't have the resins, so I guess I wait a bit for Wave 1b - Game only.
I don't know about that - I'm pretty sure I didn't order anything resin, but I got a shipping notice today as well.
I'm willing to bet that the statement about Wave 1.1 - 1.3 was all about the shipments leaving the warehouse in NY. So all of the small rewards. We know that they are trying to pick each order in a logical fashion, as it appears they started with just pinups and promos (1.1) then started overseas (1.2), then we don't know. Maybe everything with armor kits (a wave 1.3), everything with resin (a wave 1.4), and the poor souls getting everything (a wave 1.5). (Note that the Wave #'s I've been giving are wild guesses! and I want my armor kits to show up....)
The Wave 2 was just survivor and base game pledges going out, nothing to do with resin. I know I didn't get any resin, but got a shipping notice! It is coming from a shipping company though, so should go out much faster.
Ya, Adam handling wave 1 was probably a mistake. It looks like he made it more confusing for everyone and more work for himself. Given the amount of miss packed boxes, I wonder if it would have been cheaper to have someone else have handled wave 1.
Im glad a shipping company will be handling the core game and hopefully the expansions. Im in Oregon and I hear they are shipping out of Cali! No shipping notice for me on either wave, but at least its looking more promising.
Hm, I seem to recall Adam was pushing to get resin games out first, for playtesting, etc. But plastic Survivor is shipping now? Do we know if resin is moving for those who ordered it?
Also, Green Armor is included in Herald of Death, so a LOT of people are getting those (assume a Herald of Death reward box, picked during Wave 3 expansions)
I had ba ked at the $30 or so level, so I for sure have the two exclusive survivors. I did order sone extra armor sets, namely the Green Armor and a set of Dragon Armor. I also had several Messengers, Candy & Cola, a Kingsmen regiment, and several monster expansions. Shouldn't the exclusive survivors, the crossovers, and the messengers be shipping in wave 1?
Chopxsticks wrote: Ya, Adam handling wave 1 was probably a mistake. It looks like he made it more confusing for everyone and more work for himself. Given the amount of miss packed boxes, I wonder if it would have been cheaper to have someone else have handled wave 1.
Im glad a shipping company will be handling the core game and hopefully the expansions. Im in Oregon and I hear they are shipping out of Cali! No shipping notice for me on either wave, but at least its looking more promising.
Based on information shared by SPM on their recently-concluded KickStarter, I don't think farming out Wave 1 would be financially feasible:
Spoiler:
In the office we have a joke that Amazon ruined shipping and customer service for any company that isn’t Amazon. Amazon’s infrastructure is incredible. They have the benefit of controlling every level of it. Amazon will even provide fulfillment for small companies. Indeed, many Kickstarters have made use of this service, and this was the first option we looked at. We quickly discovered that the number of options we provided to customers made Amazon fulfillment back-breakingly expensive. Amazon loves to ship one thing to lots of people. But the moment you need to ship 11,000 orders and 45,000 items in random configurations they charge you per item, not just per shipment. Ouch!
Now, they go on to say they found distribution partners, but I suspect that there's a reason the Wave 1 shipments which have the most variety are being handled in-house while the things coming from the fulfillment partner are the ones that have a minimal number of SKUs.
I have neither notice yet, so I'll be over here with the other likely-thousands of red-headed step-children.
Krinsath wrote: I have neither notice yet, so I'll be over here with the other likely-thousands of red-headed step-children.
+1
So thirsty. The only thing I can say is that things will likely be interesting now that presumably the core game delivery looks to be overlapping with wave 1 fulfillment.
Dentry wrote: The only thing I can say is that things will likely be interesting now that presumably the core game delivery looks to be overlapping with wave 1 fulfillment.
I'm OK with the overlap - more people getting their stuff sooner is a good thing. Yay for parallel distribution!
Just figured out what the UPS ship notification I received this afternoon was. Set to be delivered on the 23rd. Wasn't expecting it for at least another month!
Barzam wrote: I had ba ked at the $30 or so level, so I for sure have the two exclusive survivors. I did order sone extra armor sets, namely the Green Armor and a set of Dragon Armor. I also had several Messengers, Candy & Cola, a Kingsmen regiment, and several monster expansions. Shouldn't the exclusive survivors, the crossovers, and the messengers be shipping in wave 1?
Some of that for certain - the Messengers and Candy & Cola.
I'm not sure if it is 'panic' time yet, but it is odd that you haven't heard anything about your Wave 1 stuff yet - you are in the USA right?
I don't believe we've heard of any Wave 1 orders with "loose" armor kits being sent out, which is likely why both Barzam and I are in the cold, cold darkness.
Promo: Candy and Cola
Promo: Kara Black
Messenger of Courage
Messenger of the Spiral Path
Messenger of the First Story
Messenger of Humanity
Lantern Armor x5 (makes 20 minis)
Silk Assassin Resin
Promo: Holiday White Speaker Nico
Allison the Twilight Knight: Plastic
Breotan wrote: Which of these should I have received from Adam?
Promo: Candy and Cola
Promo: Kara Black
Messenger of Courage
Messenger of the Spiral Path
Messenger of the First Story
Messenger of Humanity
Lantern Armor x5 (makes 20 minis)
Silk Assassin Resin
Promo: Holiday White Speaker Nico
Allison the Twilight Knight: Plastic
None yet. Just to recap from a support ticket Adam answered for me a couple weeks ago. Wave 1.1 was plastics only US (which is complete), 1.2 would be internationa (which they are working on; not sure if this is just plastics or plastics/resins/armor as well)l, then wave 1.3 would be armor/resins/plastics US, so if you ordered even a single resin or armor add-on it would be part of the last wave shipped.
There's pics of the full, unboxed Survivor pledge level boxes appearing all over the shop now, particularly on Facebook. Is it indicative that Adam is getting ahead of shipping?
gohkm wrote: There's pics of the full, unboxed Survivor pledge level boxes appearing all over the shop now, particularly on Facebook. Is it indicative that Adam is getting ahead of shipping?
You mean the pre-order? That stuff has been up for a month or so at least.
Not, sorry, mate. A couple of folks on Facebook have provided shots of the Survivor game box. Not the pre-order on the KD shop, but shots of the monster box I somebody's home, and an assembled Nico of holiday model.
The core game has already started to show up at some peoples homes. Wave 2 was sent out by an actual distribution company. So alot of people are getting Wave 2 ( core game/survivor level pledge) if that is what you mean.
As for Wave 1, Adams handling all that and I would not expect it any time in the near future..
Those unboxing photos are likely to be the famous few that got their boxes airlifted over because of their pledge level. As of next week we should start seeing a lot more as the American ship seems to have reached port and cleared customs well ahead of schedule. This part is Wave 2, so is not being handled by Adam.
Barzam wrote: Okay, so from what you guys are saying, due to me purchasing some armor sets, I've been kicked to the back of the line. Well that sucks.
Its all Random at this point, I didn't purchase anything extra and have not received a Wave 1 notice. I don't think your purchase effected your placement, I'm pretty sure Adam is playing drunk twister to select the next pledge to fulfill.
Beware that the group is locked. You will need approval to join and see the pictures. The Survivor Level Rewards box is funny (if you've been following one of the running jokes in the KS), but I won't spoil the entertainment when you get yours
I for one appreciate the lack of "spoilers" here so far. Unboxing the game is something I've been looking forward to literally for years at this point, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
On a different note, does anyone know of a company producing base inserts that would fit KD bases? They're 30mm at the bottom edge, but the recess in the top is probably 28mm across.
Guildsman wrote: I for one appreciate the lack of "spoilers" here so far. Unboxing the game is something I've been looking forward to literally for years at this point, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
On a different note, does anyone know of a company producing base inserts that would fit KD bases? They're 30mm at the bottom edge, but the recess in the top is probably 28mm across.
+1 re: no spoilers being pleasant.
On bases, I've been casting plaster off of the unique bases provided- hardly perfect, but just a suggestion...
Barzam wrote: Okay, so from what you guys are saying, due to me purchasing some armor sets, I've been kicked to the back of the line. Well that sucks.
Its all Random at this point, I didn't purchase anything extra and have not received a Wave 1 notice. I don't think your purchase effected your placement, I'm pretty sure Adam is playing drunk twister to select the next pledge to fulfill.
If you didn't order any extras, why are you expecting a wave one?
Barzam wrote: Okay, so from what you guys are saying, due to me purchasing some armor sets, I've been kicked to the back of the line. Well that sucks.
Its all Random at this point, I didn't purchase anything extra and have not received a Wave 1 notice. I don't think your purchase effected your placement, I'm pretty sure Adam is playing drunk twister to select the next pledge to fulfill.
If you didn't order any extras, why are you expecting a wave one?
Because I backed as a survivor and have stuff coming in wave 1..??
Just a survivor box would still (I think) be due a T-shirt and White Speaker in wave 1
but NOT all US backers were dealt with before the moved to doing the internationals (just enough to test out and solve the majority of their picking/packing issues)
so there's no need to worry if you've not had a shipping notice yet
Ya, not worried. I know it will be awhile, plus in all honesty even if I was forgotten in wave 1 I would not really mind as I have seen the T-shirt and its not something I would wear.
endtransmission wrote: Beware that the group is locked. You will need approval to join and see the pictures. The Survivor Level Rewards box is funny (if you've been following one of the running jokes in the KS), but I won't spoil the entertainment when you get yours
I am not getting a survivor box. Would you please spoil it for me?
I got my confirmation mail a week ago for Wave 1, which included 17 promo plastics, the dice, and the shirt. Considering the quantity of promo stuff I picked up off the kickstarter, I'd assumed that I'd be last in line, so I was surprised to get it. That said, I did email support earlier that day to inquire about my wave 1 status, so it's possible they sent me the mail as a result of that. If it means it's actually shipped, I've no idea - still can't track the number yet. (Note, I'm on the opposite side of the planet, so that may be part of the delay).
Really cool to see that Wave 2 is already shipping for some people, makes me a bit hopeful that I may get it sooner than expected. Hoping we get some Wave 3 prior to year end as well, though I'm not expecting it.
This is interested news. I live in Oregon and if these are shipping out of California I would expect they should show up sooner rather than later. No notice here yet for either, but would be pleasantly surprised if my survivor box just showed up!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I will be severely disappointed if I, as a fellow Southern Californian, don't have a 22lb box waiting for me when I get home.
Or tomorrow. I guess I can wait until tomorrow.
But I want it now.
My precioussssssss.....
It came via OnTrac delivery van. A small woman, about chest high, was hugging the box to her chest with two hands and heaved it to my garage.
Now, I need to go surf on the survivor box packaging.
Nothing on the porch but a couple of cheap Hell Dorado guys I got off ebay.
Shucks.
Still haven't gotten an email though. I also have a base game rather than a Survivor pledge, since I didn't get the pledge levels at the time (being my first Kickstarter, and nobody helping me upgrade my pledge).
So got my box this morning, and began assembling the prologue figures. They go together easy enough, but there's a few leftover butcher bits and loincloths I cant match up. Are there assembly instructions anywhere?
Can anyone who has got it provide an inventory of the sprues in the survivor bonus rewards box? Between not getting my wave 1 yet and the reward organization being a bit disjointed, I'm not sure what extras are supposed to be in there. The unboxings I watched tend to hold up the Phoenix and then move along.
People in Seattle are receiving there boxes... Im literally right off I-5 and they are probably driving right past me on their way to Washington... I think im going to have to stand on the side of the road and jump out in front of an Ontrac truck!
EDIT: Wife just sent me text of Survive Level box on out front porch, whew, no having to jump out in front of OnTrac truck now!
Got my wave 1 yesterday. Contents were as expected.
Packing slip said:
1x t-shirt, 1x messenger of the spiral path, 1x messenger of courage, 1x messenger of humanity
Box contents:
1x t-shirt, 1x messenger of the spiral path, 1x messenger of courage, 1x messenger of humanity, 1x white speaker, 1x bag of hairdo candy
I posted a craptastic unboxing on my youtube, along with some other random KD shipments. Craptastic because i kept holding stuff outside of the view of the camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySEIIBXGY6k
Bossk_Hogg wrote: So got my box this morning, and began assembling the prologue figures. They go together easy enough, but there's a few leftover butcher bits and loincloths I cant match up. Are there assembly instructions anywhere?
They're meant to be up on build.kingdomdeath.com as noted on the sub-box that contains the miniatures. However, the site isn't live yet. The best option we have is just improvising and looking at pictures.
I'm having a similar problem figuring out the pieces especially for the top-covered female adventurer who seems to be in several pieces.
Got my box here in Texas today. I knew it was supposed to be a big box, but damn is it big. I think I'll focus on assembling just the base survivors and the initial monsters, first,
I jumped right to the Phoenix, I never would have imagined this level of detail and quality out of a board game. This stuff is insane. I can easily say the Phoenix is a table top show piece. That being said, holy feth me in the poop hole these have so many little pieces AND no indication of where they go. The Phoenix has 30 little hands, and 3 other traily bits and its been 30min alone of "does this go there, no.. try again, Found it! next one, does this go there, no..."
For comparison, this Phoenix is larger than a Games Workshop Blood Thirster.
For the big boxes (core game and expansions) I believe they have an EU-friendly shipper. The Wave 1 box, which you now might get second and is the complex orders of single miniatures and extra armor kits, will be coming from the U.S.
So not entirely EU friendly, but dramatically more so than they were thinking it was going to be earlier.
I got my wave 1 stuff without any customs charges, which was a pleasant surprise because the last orders of the resins I made direct from KD did get charged (and subsequently made it too expensive to get )
Adam did make oblique references that the declared value of the wave 1 packages would reflect that the focus of the campaign, and thus your pledge, was on the big boxes in the expansion while the extra money KD themselves put in with the delays went towards those small rewards. However, I think that's a "the first rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club" thing.
Vorian wrote: I got my wave 1 stuff without any customs charges, which was a pleasant surprise because the last orders of the resins I made direct from KD did get charged (and subsequently made it too expensive to get )
You, me outside now!
£6.49 custom charges and £8 waa- waa-we-don't-like-competition-but-we-fleece-you-as-soon-as-we-have-a-monopoly charge from Royal Mail
Perhaps I had less than you? I just had the t-shirt, white speaker, nico, kara and candy & cola - so maybe it was small enough that they didn't realise the opportunity to screw me was there
Very glad the main box is coming from inside the EU
I'm annoyed with myself that I based the PU Collection normally, completely forgetting the base inserts coming in the KS, hopefully there are 8 spares in the 50 and I can rebase them
I received my core box but im still pretty annoyed honestly. No tracking from UPS who passed the delivery down to OnTrac. When I contacted them with my name and address they told me they had no information in regards to a package being delivered there. It showed up the following day. I feel I dodged a bullet.. For a game valued at $400 I really didnt feel comfortable with how shipping was handled.
Otherwise the models are amazing, game looks like it should be fun. Hope to play this weekend.
@Chopxsticks - that may be an OnTrac issue, and I wonder what the experience is for others in their coverage area. My game box was poorly packaged in a thin skin of cardboard, cut down from a double core shipper. It got a little beat up, and the vacuum-formed organizer tray was cracked in several places.
My cardboard was stamped with a Kingdom Death Surviver Pledge logo, box looked like it was custom made for this size. Hot damn though I cant express how nice these models are. Assembled a Kingsman model, this is not a board game!! This is something else entirely.
I think im going to make my own bases, I dont particularly like the face bases. I will make some mold copies and break them up and make some custom bases.
My box (both shipping and game) had minor damage from OnTrac shipping, but not really worse than I've seen from any of the other carriers. If I was buying it retail it would really annoy me, but I unfortunately have learned to accept it from mail order.
The shipping box mine came was clearly custom made to fit, as it even said Kingdom Death Survivor-something on the side. That did mean there was no padding to protect the game box inside, but fortunately it didn't suffer even one bit of damage to a corner. By some sheer miracle, mine must have been the one box that somehow slipped past all the UPS handlers without getting dropped even once.
Mine thankfully was ok. its got some crease lines ontop where you can tell other boxes had sat on it. I took a photo of this box with my 2 year old laying next to it. Its Huge!! Like you dont really believe it when you read the dimensions online... now if I could just get time to play a game
Additionally, my rulebook wasn't in it's "spot" and has a pretty mangled corner.
Usually I wouldn't be concerned because it's a rulebook, but this thing is no ordinary rulebook. That being said, If I was offered the option to purchase a hardcover one for, say, $15-20 bucks I'd probably do that in a heartbeat.
Looks like I'll be putting in a service order after I inventory everything.
Id throw down money quick for a hardback or a PDF. And if Poots ever got into Graphic novels based on the Kingdom Death lore, I'd probably buy those as well.
I pledged for the premium survivor level (had additional resin goodies), and 1 of every add on, plastic and resin included (pledge was over $1400).
I just got a box in the mail. It included the base game and survivor add on pack. Were we supposed to get our other goodies in the firat wave too? I only ask because I have seen the plastic promo and pinups on ebay already but I didn't gwt mine yet.
I was thinking of selling because I have too many games but probably won't now -holy crap this stuff is good! Much better than resin, durable, and detailed as hell!!!! Kudos poots!!
Adam and his team is picking and packing the very complex pinup/promo/tshirts/extra armour kits and resins (wave 1)
they did some test using the USA to optimise their methods (cheaper to fix issues) then moved on to international orders which will take longer to arrive.
orders without armour kits and resins, then those with one of them, and finally both,
they'll then do the remainder of the usa orders (all of the armour kit/resins will be in this batch)
expectt this to take several weeks more
the game boxes are being sent out via a freight forwarder which is nice and fast as all he need to do is put on address labels (also known as wave 2). the usa stuff is going out now, Australia and Canada look to just be starting, and the EU is stii on the boat sa far as we know
Mine just arrived. Box was in great shape, although a couple cracks in the internal tray. Looks like it probably happened during packing as opposed to transit.
The box is a behemoth; I put it up on my oversize game shelf and it makes Cthulhu Wars look itty bitty.
Well, my Survivor box arrived at my parents' house (as my apartment complex's mail office is less than reliable). From what I can tell, it came in good condition. My main concern, however, is that I still haven't received a shipping notification for it!
So, hopefully within scope of the thread, does anyone know if the armor kit sprues will be available individually later on, and if so, how much they will run?
I don't know about that. What little comparison we have shows that single figures in plastic will probably be $12.50 U.S., half of the resin prices, so they're definitely thinking about costs. While I'm sure you won't be able to build regiments with them, I expect they'll be in the same neighborhood as Malifaux plastics.
EDIT: To be completely fair, this is purely speculation on my part.
Guildsman wrote: I don't know about that. What little comparison we have shows that single figures in plastic will probably be $12.50 U.S., half of the resin prices, so they're definitely thinking about costs. While I'm sure you won't be able to build regiments with them, I expect they'll be in the same neighborhood as Malifaux plastics.
EDIT: To be completely fair, this is purely speculation on my part.
I think the only certainty is they will be more expensive than they were during the KS,
but that's not a bad guess for multiples as it's what the pinups of death box works out too, and just below what the SF twilight knight cost at $15 which I think will be the price for the singles
this is going to be 'overstock' at their shipping warehouses from the look of it (so EU orders come from within the EU, no extra VAT to pay)
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Does anyone know of any repository for all the Kingdom Death fluff? I wasn't in any position to back the game but the setting and imagery has really struck a chord with me.
I wish. They've been keeping the fluff pretty well under wraps so far. What little I know is pieced together from model descriptions and Adam's comments.
bossfearless wrote: Does anyone know of any repository for all the Kingdom Death fluff? I wasn't in any position to back the game but the setting and imagery has really struck a chord with me.
That would be the KS page, Kingdom Death Website, and... A. Poots.
Near as I can tell, it will be growing its own fluff and backstory as we see more.
Supposed to be more games in the works from the original plan explained in the KS.
Yeah, this game is top notch, and will probably be the go to game, instead of GW from now on. Box, contents, books, all make me want to wear a Gimp mask to play the game. Great fun!!!!! Wheeeeeee!!!!!!
So, Highlord Tamburlaine suggested I should post these pics. I received my stuff today and among my handful of sprues was the Dragon King armor set. I hadn't heard of anyone else getting the armor from the expansions yet.
Hopefully you can make everything out on here.
Sprue 1: figures and armor. 2 guys, 2 girls
Sprue 2: pile 'o weapons
I'll post these in the other KD: M thread as well.
That... Looks terrifying. I need it. This game has gotten to the point that I bought every expansion sans the Lion God and Lonely Tree, and will likely buy any (and every) expansion in the future. I'm still hoping the Nightmare Ram makes its way into Monster, and I can't wait to see this fox creature he teased not too long ago.
My gaming group has discussed some things we'd love to see, and first and foremost, we'd love to see models (pin-ups or otherwise) of the starting four survivors; Alistair, Zachary, Erza, and Lucy. We've discussed how cool a creepy giant golem or some sort of burrower worm would be. I'd love to see his take on a wendigo, or (thanks to Monster Musume) either in pin-up or monster version, a Lamia!
Out of interest, are you willing to buy 'small' single-monster expansions at $50 and 'large' expansions at $100 for this game on a regular basis? Given the play-length of the average campaign, at what point is there more content than you'd realistically experience?
I'm interested, because the setup is quite dramatically different from a normal boardgame, even a miniatures-heavy one. The $50/$100 correlates quite nicely with the Zombicide "expansions" and "base games" for example, and I can definitely say that every Zombicide player I know has heavy fatigue with the game after 2 of the former and 3 of the latter.
Equally, you can be midway through a fairly epic campaign in Kingdom Death, buy a new monster box and have it slot seamlessly into the experience, so perhaps it's more like buying a meaty expansion book for a multi-month RPG that you've been running.
(depending on how the postage costs go for things to come direct from KD)
I enjoy model building (and painting if they inspire me which almost all of the KS stuff does) and price wise it's about the same as I'd end up paying for a decent scale model kit, (or something from GW)
and the fact that it's then usable in a game that I think I'm going to enjoy too makes it even better
Depends on availability outside of the US I suppose. Despite my criticism of the items in hand thus far, I am all for more of this stuff, as replays of the game will ultimately make you want to add in new adversaries and new rewards. It's a great way of keeping both a company and a game alive without rebooting it.
I'd be happy to buy expansions of this quality for $50-$100 as I can see this one being the sort of game I leave set up in the corner of the room and play solo if there is no-one around. As long as it isn't too often though as postage/customs will kill me
Digital record sheets are going to be a must for this too
As for things I'd like to see? a giant worm creature that appears and disappears from the board would be great, as would a Trap-door spider-like event.
Oh lord, a KD wendigo would be horrifying. A burrowing monster would be interesting also. I'm really looking forward to the "fox demon" that Adam mentioned in one of the updates.
As far as expansions go, as long as the quality stays at least as high as it is now, I'm willing to buy most anything I can afford. There are quite a few items that have shown up in the KD store that I passed on, only because I want to wait until they have game content. *stares longingly at the storm knight*
I can easily see a Settlement Vs. Settlement action going on in here, especially with the diametrically opposed options that happen. ( Life/ Death) (burial/ Cannibalism) etc.etc...
As for the expansions, I want that last one, that I don't remember what it was... LMAO!!!!! Gimme Gimme Gimme!!! Gimme Some more!!!
The most striking thing about this game is the quality, BTW.
The best product on the market, even if it doesn't come with directions on how to build the stuff, it is simple, amazingly detailed, and reasonable in terms of expand on your own, build as you go.
Each task should take a couple of days, at best, then you have a top notch "We're not worthy" to paint miniature on your hands...
Biggest gripe I have is Glue. Be careful with your Zap a gap on these babies, might have to get some Gundam glue for it, instead. Save my finger meat, save the model from getting its D 10 sacrifice.
Anyone want to get rid of their base survivors, I need more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaveC wrote: Now I'm home I can post the Jungle Queen/Lotus Monster artwork as well
Bioptic wrote: Out of interest, are you willing to buy 'small' single-monster expansions at $50 and 'large' expansions at $100 for this game on a regular basis? Given the play-length of the average campaign, at what point is there more content than you'd realistically experience?
I'm interested, because the setup is quite dramatically different from a normal boardgame, even a miniatures-heavy one. The $50/$100 correlates quite nicely with the Zombicide "expansions" and "base games" for example, and I can definitely say that every Zombicide player I know has heavy fatigue with the game after 2 of the former and 3 of the latter.
Equally, you can be midway through a fairly epic campaign in Kingdom Death, buy a new monster box and have it slot seamlessly into the experience, so perhaps it's more like buying a meaty expansion book for a multi-month RPG that you've been running.
Well, the estimated MSRP (I believe is a more recent estimation) on minor expansions is about $35, while major expansions are anticipated to be about $65. They have seen scale-creep in content much like the base board game did, though, it's said to be not nearly as much, and I believe the original estimates for MSRP were $25 and $50, so I think $35 and $65 is a good guess.
To actually answer your question, yes, I would buy expansions as they came out, assuming money wasn't extremely tight. There's generally a video game I'd like to buy but can pass on to make up for the funds, kind of deal, you know? At least, I'd use the standard my wife and I set out during the Kickstarter (wow, she was only my girlfriend when we backed this, crazy!) in that we'd definitely buy any major expansion, and will buy any minor expansion if we like the monster. That's how I ended up passing on only the Lion God (though we'll see if I buy it once it hits retail...) Major expansions seem to offer enough content to warrant a purchase even if I'm not a huge fan of the monster (more armor in game/models is more better!), whereas if it's just a monster and a few pieces of gear, it's not as big of a thing to miss out on.
Given how often KD stuff comes out as it is, I don't think we'll have to worry about too many new expansions too quickly, I'd be surprised if more than, say, six come out per year (not including the ones in the kickstarter, obviously).
I bet he'll just put them in his store and not do a kickstarter for more Monster content. When it comes time to do the next KD game, then it'll hit Kickstarter for sure, though. So we know he's working on at least two major expansions (Ring tailed fox demon, as he showed the armor) and the Nightmare Ram (he mentioned fighting the Ram in a dungeon, which would mean new board tiles? Definitely a major expansion). I'm guessing that the Lotus monster will be a minor expansion, and I'd wager we'll be getting a Storm Knight, Smoke Knight, and/or Flower Witch minor expansion in the near(ish) future.
The Fragile Breath wrote: I bet he'll just put them in his store and not do a kickstarter for more Monster content. When it comes time to do the next KD game, then it'll hit Kickstarter for sure, though. So we know he's working on at least two major expansions (Ring tailed fox demon, as he showed the armor) and the Nightmare Ram (he mentioned fighting the Ram in a dungeon, which would mean new board tiles? Definitely a major expansion). I'm guessing that the Lotus monster will be a minor expansion, and I'd wager we'll be getting a Storm Knight, Smoke Knight, and/or Flower Witch minor expansion in the near(ish) future.
I don't see why he wouldn't do a small(er) KS for those 2 majors and 4+ minors. It'd be far more manageable with what should be a tighter delivery window.
Is there a painting guide for the figures, or somewhere that has some pointers on the color pallet for the game? Black, white, or gray spray-paint is nice, but its kind of missing something.
So far, some skin tones for the survivors, and white/ off-white for the cloth.
Bone white on the lion so far, but it needs something else. I can't say enough good things about this game, by the way.
Grot 6 wrote: Is there a painting guide for the figures, or somewhere that has some pointers on the color pallet for the game? Black, white, or gray spray-paint is nice, but its kind of missing something.
So far, some skin tones for the survivors, and white/ off-white for the cloth.
Bone white on the lion so far, but it needs something else. I can't say enough good things about this game, by the way.
Grot 6 wrote: Is there a painting guide for the figures, or somewhere that has some pointers on the color pallet for the game? Black, white, or gray spray-paint is nice, but its kind of missing something.
So far, some skin tones for the survivors, and white/ off-white for the cloth.
Bone white on the lion so far, but it needs something else. I can't say enough good things about this game, by the way.
On the question of expansions, this is of course a bit of speculation, but based on the core campaign...
I wouldn't hesitate to pick any of the major ones (though you could probably do it really gradually, since there's not much advantage to fighting a ton of types in any campaign). If they've got a full armor style, you can expect easily getting more than a half-dozen games in in a campaign if you're trying to fight them. It also looks like at least some come with what amount to campaign variants.
On the nemeses, they come up far less regularly (nor as controllably), and basically take the role of minibosses, so are more variety than anything else. If money were a factor, I'd probably limit that to my favorite one in addition to the core three.
The Red Graf wrote: Can anyone tell me when the second release of Percival will happen? Is there a certain number of weeks between the original release and the follow up?
As far as we know there's no way to predict when items will be made available with Kingdom Death. The best way to obtain that kind of information is to join their mailing list. An email is usually sent out announcing new model releases and/or restocks.
The Red Graf wrote: Can anyone tell me when the second release of Percival will happen? Is there a certain number of weeks between the original release and the follow up?
If you are looking for one, I will probably end up not painting mine for a while. Drop me a PM if you're interested.
The Red Graf wrote: Can anyone tell me when the second release of Percival will happen? Is there a certain number of weeks between the original release and the follow up?
As far as we know there's no way to predict when items will be made available with Kingdom Death. The best way to obtain that kind of information is to join their mailing list. An email is usually sent out announcing new model releases and/or restocks.
Also they're in 24/7 Kickstarter delivery mode, so I wouldn't expect any new releases between now and Black Friday.
And a bunch of encores including the Halloween Twilight Knight!
Spoiler:
Also, I was unable to place an order for more than three miniatures at once. Said no shipping option was available to my location when I tried and it wouldn't go through until I split the miniatures into multiple orders. Just as an FYI to anyone who experiences the same thing.
It says 'Limit 3 per a customer' for the witches, this might mean you cant order more than 3 of em tin total. I just ordered the thief mage fighter and forsaker with no problem.
(Dried shut I mean.)
Suppose I could dig up my receipt and check...
