I take people's point about having this sort of discussion elsewhere. So I'm going to try to satisfy everyone by staying on topic, and then going off topic again. That way I can piss off everyone!
So here's the genuine news I have for you, hot off the email press. I emailed Mantic last night, both as an interested customer and as a pledger who wants to maximize sales, to recommend that they prioritize getting larger, more expensive sculpts like the Marauder Hulk done before the KS campaign ends. My reasoning was that big, expensive add-on sculpts that are minimally discounted ONLY have the quality of their final sculpt to attract buyers. If only concept art for figs like the Hulk is available, not many people will plunk down $12 and say, "I'm sure it will be great." Personally, I'm not thrilled to take that gamble for a $5 figure, either, but I'm much more likely to do it for $5, or for a well-discounted package like the the EU bundle, than I am for a single full-price $12 fig.
Anyhow, here's the response I got from Stewart:
"Thanks for getting in touch. I take your point completely, and we are working as hard as we can to get as many of the sculpts completed by the end of the KS as possible. Those that aren't, we will get pictures up later, so that people can add them on in the surveys. The sculpt for the Survivor has just been finished, and it looks fantastic! We should be getting it off of the sculptor next week, and we'll get some photos up as soon as we can. The Kraaw is also finished, and I'll see if we can get that too.
The Hulk is next on the list for our in-house sculptor, so we'll have a good deal of control over this one in particular. I'll try to get some pictures up asap."
Looks like we'll be seeing the Survivor and Kraaw soon, and pics of the Marauder Hulk sculpt before anyone has to finalize their purchase. Good news.
As for the female thing, I take your points Azazelx. I know the chainmail bikini thing has been around since Tolkien introduced Eowyn (kidding, kidding). Seriously, even way back when I was a kid getting Dragon magazine with Larry Elmore bikini chainmail models on the cover, I found it idiotic. But Tolkien is actually a good example - if you plopped an Elmore bikini model character into one of Tolkien's books - not on the cover, into the story - she wouldn't fit with the rest of the narrative. She'd be a weird, incongruous thing calling attention to itself and distracting from the story.
We're really talking about aesthetics rather than gameplay or sales (and since games are a hybrid product of all of those, I'm not discounting them.) In the world of Dust, the sexy women are part of the game's guiding aesthetic. They fit. Same thing with Kingdom Death. People like me who are really bothered by that aesthetic don't buy those games, regardless of how well they might play. In other games, gratuitous sex appeal would look odd and out of place. For me, at least as its been established so far, that kind of cheesecake doesn't work in the Warpath / Deadzone universe any better than it would in Tolkien. If Mantic put out a sexy Warpath mini just for the sake of sex-appeal, I'm sure they'd attract some buyers with that. They'd also lose my money on that figure, and they'd lose me as a customer completely if they did that kind of thing a lot. As a customer, whether they would end up making more or less money is irrelevant to me. The Kingdom Death KS made a hell of a lot more money than Deadzone ever will, but it'll never enter my house. I vote with my money same as anyone, and if I lose an election, I'm not going to turn around and start voting with the other party. Maybe in the grand sense I'm "losing" some ideological battle for the sexualized soul of gaming or something, but at that level this is all getting ridiculous anyway.
@Azazelx - I don't think your characterization of KS comments boards was entirely fair, but neither was it without truth, and I found it interesting. This is the first KS I've participated in, and so the first KS comments thread I've been involved in. I wonder if maybe the KS comments format really was subtly influencing me to be more declamatory here. Or maybe that's just an appealing, reassuring thought because it allows me to duck some responsibility for writing garbage. Regardless, the idea that thread formats influence the content of what we say or the psychology of how we present it, even if only slightly, is interesting. It's not a new idea, I know, but it's the kind of thing I usually dismiss out of hand, like I dismiss the idea that I'm influenced in any way by commercials. Maybe I shouldn't.
@Pacific - Much obliged for the kind words. If my argument had been well constructed, accurate, and fair, and then got cheaply attacked, I'd have grounds for anger. But it really was full of holes, so the critical responses were doing me a favor by pointing that out. It's easy to forget when your ego and emotions are on the line, but when people have valid critical points to make about your writing, they're not your enemies. Quite the opposite, we depend on each other's criticism to see around our blind spots, hold us to account when we're way off, and sharpen our thinking.
@Everyone - I won't shut down this discussion, but in the interest of keeping things Deadzone-centric on this thread, if this race / gender dialogue continues I'll move my responses to a relevant thread on the forums from here on out.
GrimDork wrote: I like the Doc. Looks like she's being wracked by mutation while dragging herself towards cause of her condition (too-slow corp forces) filled with hate.
I mean yeah, she looks more like a zombie than the other 3rd gens, but I dont think she's going to look bad lined up next to them.
Yes that's why I think too.. kind of like her mind is still coherent, but she is having to drag her deformed, plague-racked body around with her.
I like the concept art for the doc but I do hope they show a sculpt in progress for her before the end of the KS with all the controversy surrounding mantic figs versus concept art of late.
Hey everyone, now that we have the sprue pics and the battlezones have been expanded, I've made a new pic showing what you can do with 1 battlezone set:
Yep, you can actually squeeze a 2-storey 9x6" out of it, with a tile spare.
The ability to convert 2x barricade tiles into a "wall with firing slit" tile really adds a lot of extra flexibility.
PLEASE take all of the "Diversity" discussions to a different thread, maybe in Dakka Discussions - or perhaps even more importantly, directly to Mantic itself.
Since the Deadzone Kickstarter began, a lot of people have wanted to know more details about the terrain sprues - what's on them, how many buildings can be made, and so on. Well, we've just received final confirmation of the Core Worlds sprue contents, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised...
Yes, it turns out the sprues are even bigger than we thought they would be! In our original plan, each sprue was going to be big enough to hold six terrain tiles - that meant that if we wanted to include barricades, walkways, or other extras they would take up the space of one or more of those tiles. However, the clever folk who have been working on the design have come up with an even better idea: each sprue will now be big enough to hold eight terrain tiles! That means each sprue in the Core Worlds Battlezone gives you six tiles (or five tiles and two half-tiles) and also features plenty of extras like the barricades, supports and walkways shown above.
With the additional sprue that was unlocked at the last stretch goal, the plan is for a Core Worlds Battlezone to include two of each of these sprues plus a connector sprue. We'll be putting up more shots of terrain sprues once we have them, and over the next few days we will be releasing some images of different ways you can put your Core Worlds buildings together.
So what do you think of the contents of the Core Worlds Battlezone? What are you hoping to see on the Landing Pad and Fortifications sprues? You know the drill - drop us a comment below!
For those wanting terrain to play Deadzone on, here's a link to some awesome papercraft terrain I have been using for quite awhile, that looks like it would be perfect for the grid system Deadzone uses.
It's very simple terrain (it represents colony buildings that are brought in like shipping containers), but the cool thing is that it is meant to be simple to cut out (for people who don't know much papercraft), and is expressly designed to be folded away for easy storage.
http://www.toposolitario.com/workshop/ikube.html
The rest of his paper vehicles are very awesome, too. It's geared more towards Infinity, but I think that could also be a boon towards being compatible with Sedition wars and Warpath, which both use "cleaner" near-future artstyles than GW.
Deadzone is a smaller 5-15 model per side game, so Necromunda sized. But Mantic says that all the models will be able to be used in Warpath as units, like the Forgefather Deadzone squad also being their not-terminator squad in Warpath.
So much wishing this had come out at the same time as SedWars so I could have pledged for it instead and could be playing it now...........
I think getting nice, round numbers for warpath squads will be the main focus/challenge for me by the end of the campaign. That and getting enough battle zones to make some kind of tower-bridge mega city.
i like the sprues, however the one thing i would love for them to add are the corner peices that they have in the pictures, that hide the connecting edge on the outside.
Grot 6 - yes this is very much a skirmish sized game. However, I think the idea is that the models will all be usable in Warpath as well if you want to expand (which I believe is currently straddling the smaller size of 'mass combat games' with the 2.0 rules available currently).
GrimDork wrote: I think getting nice, round numbers for warpath squads will be the main focus/challenge for me by the end of the campaign. That and getting enough battle zones to make some kind of tower-bridge mega city.
Compel wrote: Here's a thought. What if she's modelled aiming the gun, or doing something requiring more.... dexterity with it (EG, some pose reloading the gun?).
That keeps the whole plague-wracked torture thing but shows the potential for higher thinking than some plague zombie blazing away would do.
It's been a crazy day today, but I'm going to have to do some math and figuring to see what would really be involved in a proper TBMC(tm). May have to skimp on minis (stick to strike or so) to make it happen... I think we'll assume it at a 4'x4' table size since the multiple levels *sort of* double the playing area.
Compel wrote: Although that discussion can be had, and is held elsewhere on the boards.
I would like a not-dead version of Gayle as an add-on at a later time.
A bit of a Sedition Wars/Zombicide feel if they did that - not that I'm opposed to it.
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PsychoticStorm wrote: What I meant is, she looks and is posed as a zombie, a mindless thing, not a genius, her overall appearance is not bad, her pose is.
Think of the warped pose as something more like a scoliosis brought on by the plague.
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Vermonter wrote: In other games, gratuitous sex appeal would look odd and out of place. For me, at least as its been established so far, that kind of cheesecake doesn't work in the Warpath / Deadzone universe any better than it would in Tolkien. If Mantic put out a sexy Warpath mini just for the sake of sex-appeal, I'm sure they'd attract some buyers with that. They'd also lose my money on that figure, and they'd lose me as a customer completely if they did that kind of thing a lot. As a customer, whether they would end up making more or less money is irrelevant to me. The Kingdom Death KS made a hell of a lot more money than Deadzone ever will, but it'll never enter my house. I vote with my money same as anyone, and if I lose an election, I'm not going to turn around and start voting with the other party. Maybe in the grand sense I'm "losing" some ideological battle for the sexualized soul of gaming or something, but at that level this is all getting ridiculous anyway.
@Azazelx - I don't think your characterization of KS comments boards was entirely fair, but neither was it without truth, and I found it interesting. This is the first KS I've participated in, and so the first KS comments thread I've been involved in. I wonder if maybe the KS comments format really was subtly influencing me to be more declamatory here. Or maybe that's just an appealing, reassuring thought because it allows me to duck some responsibility for writing garbage. Regardless, the idea that thread formats influence the content of what we say or the psychology of how we present it, even if only slightly, is interesting. It's not a new idea, I know, but it's the kind of thing I usually dismiss out of hand, like I dismiss the idea that I'm influenced in any way by commercials. Maybe I shouldn't.
Keeping it DeadZone/Warpath related, my own opinion is that the universe isn't really established at all. The few products (including Pandora) that have come out utilising the universe are really just the beginnings of whatever it will become, assuming Mantic stay in business. To that end, my own assumption is that their universe will be as "expansive" in many ways as the 40k universe is - in that you can shoehorn almost anything (or mode of localised dress for the Imperial Guard) you like into it.
As for KS comments, I'm not a fan of the format or the overall "sub-communities" that they tend to attract. KS comments are essentially temporary, there's one long line of posts that need to contain every individual's feedback and discussion, all in a format that would make twitter wince. The Bulletin Board format - in many ways an extension of the old Usenet threads allows commentary and discussions to be self-contained - and it's possible to catch up or continue discrete multiple conversations with multiple people on multiple topics over weeks and months. The conversation that we're having here would pretty much be impossible to have in a KS comment thread, for example. Now, for some odd reason I feel like some delicious KFC and ice-cold Coca-Cola, so I'll catch you later.
I think it has been mentioned a few times by mantic both Dreadball and now Deadzone are attempts to flesh out parts of the lore, it has potential to be as big as any universe and I do not see it as a bad idea to use such tie ins to flesh it out.
As for Simmonds, its the twisted legs the arms positions, the hunched posture, I really hope they change her.
Ruined, it's all ruined!
Update #46 · May 20, 2013 · 4 comments
Heck yeah – that’s Doctor Simmonds IN DA HOUSE!
Concept Art – some of you have mentioned the pose looks a little too Zombie-ish – no worries, we’ll get that changed when we come to doing the sculpt.
Next up…
$525,000 – FREE Deadzone Short-Story Compilation
Enriching the Warpath universe was one of the key motivations behind Deadzone and, if we hit this goal, you’ll allow us to delve further into the background as we will write a short story compilation written by the likes of esteemed authors Guy Haley, Alessio Cavatore, Jake Thornton PLUS special guests.
This epic new compilation will feature all-new explosive stories between the warring factions and special characters both new and old. If we hit this goal, we will add a FREE digital copy of the Deadzone Short Story Compilation with every pledge on the Deadzone Kickstarter.
And that’s not all:
NEWS STRETCH! $550,000 – Ruined BattleZone
Citizen Jael burst through the security door, weaving side to side as debris and rubble crashed to the floor. Warning sirens blared in the background and Jael tripped over lose wiring, electric sparks fizzing as he scrambled to his feet.
“Halt, Citizen!” came a robotic voice from behind.
Jael has been in hiding ever since the armour clad super soldiers had arrived in the region, unleashing devastating salvos of laser cannon fire on the surrounding buildings sending them crashing to the ground in a bid to trap the mutant beasts inside. But that wasn’t the end of it - Jael was learning just what happened when the Enforcers quarantined an area.
After their transports had landed, scores of citizens had been killed at point blank range as the soldiers ensured that the Plague wouldn’t break out again...
Now Jael was being hunted and, as he rounded a corner, he felt a searing pain in his shoulder. Smashing his head on the floor as he fell backwards, a dark presence loomed over him, snarling.
The Marauder Raiders had landed in the ruins.
Sample Concept Art:
The Ruins BattleZone contains 4 Buildings Sprues of approximately 6 tiles and 1 Connector Sprue.
By hitting this goal you will:
- Unlock the Ruins as one of your choices if you have pledged for the Urban Fight ($25), Urban Skirmish ($50), Urban Battle ($95) or Urban War ($185) scenery add-ons.
- Unlock the Ruins as one of your choices if you have pledged at either the One-Click Urban Battlefield ($100 + Early Bird) or One-Click Urban Wargames Table ($285 + Early Bird) scenery-only pledge level.
AND FINALLY
We are now less than 250 backers away from our next Nexus Psi scenario and we need your help to get there!
Please tell all of your friends and club members about the Deadzone Kickstarter – we’ve got a great game in production and an awesome scenery range being developed, as well as a beautiful miniatures line… even if you can bring in just one backer we can get closer to our next goal and give you more free stuff.
Thank you for your support!
Moving much slower than I'd hoped/thought, and I don't think the PDF story goal will light any fires, but maybe the ruined scenery will?
PDF fiction book seems a waste to me. I know some folks like it, but I doubt even they will increase their pledge (or decide to back the project) based solely on the availability of a fiction PDF...
Odd as it may be to say this, but I think the Ruined terrain doesn't look ruined enough
If they had made it so 2 or 3 of the available sections (or more!) were heavily ruined, like down to a triangle-shaped piece, then setting up partial-building ruins would look a lot more natural. These "ruins" however are almost all the same level of damage one could make with a dremel tool or a hobby knife for the most part, and in fact making a partial building from them would simply look awkward imo ("Apparently the building walls were pockmarked and damaged, but spontaneously the roof blew off! ).
Really hope they rework these into proper "Ruins" instead of just "Battle-Damage" stuff.
The PDF goal will be (largely) intended to break up a higher stretch target
eg
we need $60,000 to add these models to the FF and/or Astarians starters
but that's a bit of a big jump,
instead we'll ask $30,000 for a PDF, then $30 for the models so there are two targets to aim for (it has to be this way round just in case they miss the second stretch)
I think it would have been a better idea for the short stories to have been a far earlier stretch. There was a very long period at the beginning where we didn't have any stretch goals. Something like this, with no tangible product I think would've been better to have had back then, or sandwiched between a pair of miniature stretches, like the Asterian/FF one.
Even ignoring the 'artificial high' that the campaign gets in the beginning, this one was projected to finish at or above 1 million not that long ago, and now it is 'on pace' for below $800K.
Still good - but not what it 'could be'.
Yes, there's still time, but Mantic needs to do a few things:
1) Show actual terrain being built with the sprues from each level, including the 'in the box' stuff at Striker.
2) Get going on Forgefather and Asterian add-ons
Until they do, this one's going to limp along like the last few days...
And how's this for a totally useless upgrade to Kicktraq:
I have that feeling they try to push the "boring" stuff out of the way in order to make it run smoother at the later days, the battlezones are essentially a necessity to entice the terrain only pledges and by definition these are big.
Been Working on a Deadzone board.
It's just texture paint, drybrush and marker lines drawn on VCT floor squares, but I like it.
The terrain is just some Pegasus Hexagon kits, but I'm going to dig out my Necromunda terrain and search my other terrain to find other appropriately sized items. The width of Hexagon square and hexagon floor pieces is just shy of 3" so they work quite well on a Deadzone grid.
Barzam wrote: I think it would have been a better idea for the short stories to have been a far earlier stretch. There was a very long period at the beginning where we didn't have any stretch goals. Something like this, with no tangible product I think would've been better to have had back then, or sandwiched between a pair of miniature stretches, like the Asterian/FF one.
Guys... think of this as a 30k stretch-goal to the ruined terrain, with the short-story anthology being a given that just happens to be included along-the-way.
I began talking about the short-stories, well before this stretch-goal. It was always planned, and the Mantic folks probably just felt like this was a healthy time to announce it formally. :-)
Oh, and while I know many of you aren't excited for the goal, I encourage you to give it a chance anyway. I think you might be surprised by some of the flavor versus bombastic, often silly 40k. I mean, I am currently pitching a very small, intimate story with a lot of thought, and human sentiment. Its the kind of story you'd never be allowed to do under GW.
Geez Squig, how much is Mantic paying you for this? They should double it. Now, of course, doubling zero is still zero, but I definitely appreciate all the effort you put into promoting their stuff.
Is there any software you're using to make the mock-ups? Might be fun to play around with seeing what I could do myself if it's not too hard.
Lansirill wrote: Geez Squig, how much is Mantic paying you for this? They should double it. Now, of course, doubling zero is still zero, but I definitely appreciate all the effort you put into promoting their stuff.
Is there any software you're using to make the mock-ups? Might be fun to play around with seeing what I could do myself if it's not too hard.
Just google sketchup (free software), only need to use the move and rotate tool, dead easy once you've got your head around it (if you're new to 3d modelling this generally involves about an hour or two of cursing and "this is impossible!" before it all starts to click, the learning curve is steep but quick). And yeah, it is a lot of fun, like playing with lego... or a slightly more complicated minecraft.
I didn't make the tiles, those were made by Daedle over on the Mantic forums, here's a link to download the sketchup file containing them all: http://www.filesnack.com/files/ctunqnpz
Barzam wrote: I think it would have been a better idea for the short stories to have been a far earlier stretch. There was a very long period at the beginning where we didn't have any stretch goals. Something like this, with no tangible product I think would've been better to have had back then, or sandwiched between a pair of miniature stretches, like the Asterian/FF one.
Guys... think of this as a 30k stretch-goal to the ruined terrain, with the short-story anthology being a given that just happens to be included along-the-way.
I began talking about the short-stories, well before this stretch-goal. It was always planned, and the Mantic folks probably just felt like this was a healthy time to announce it formally. :-)
Oh, and while I know many of you aren't excited for the goal, I encourage you to give it a chance anyway. I think you might be surprised by some of the flavor versus bombastic, often silly 40k. I mean, I am currently pitching a very small, intimate story with a lot of thought, and human sentiment. Its the kind of story you'd never be allowed to do under GW.
Don't misunderstand, I wasn't actually complaining. I just feel it would have been better placed earlier in the campaign.
I did see in the comments, Mantic has mentioned that the Ruins will be the last of the Basttlescape (or whatever it's called) terrain unlocks and that after that, we're hitting miniature stretches again.
In case anyone is curious, 2 of the barricades convert into a wall piece perfectly, leaving hexagonal shaped half windows on each side.
Squig, are there going to be enough of the support pieces to hold all that roof And the "bridge"? That's my main concern, their sprue pics don't show any of the smaller connector pieces, and only 4 roof, balcony, bridge, walkway pieces per sprue, so it will be interesting to see exactly what you can model with this stuff, and just how well it will hold together without glue. If you've heard anything, especially if they've been playing with actual plastic pieces, we'd love to know.
Since there seems to be someone from Mantic actively posting right now, I thought I'd go ahead and ask him a question. I was wondering if Mantic had considered doing any kind of sneak preview figures kind of like how Dreamforge did with their Shadowkesh. The answer I got is that they have considered it, did do it with dreadball, and have plans for something towards the end of this KS.
So... you survived?
Update #47 · May 20, 2013 · 3 comments
Well well, two stretches in a space of two days and one not so far away at all… it’s going well guys, very well! Can we hit two in a day?
Up next we have the Ruined Buildings sprue, one of the last BattleZones we will be doing.
The Ruins are designed to add more character to your buildings and more cover for your battlefield, allowing to depict a scarred Warzone succumbing to the effects of battle - perfect for staging many of the city fights and street crawls Deadzone allows you to play.
So far we’ve shown off some early concepts for the damaged tiles but the ruined frame will go much further than this...
We want to add pieces that depict areas of cover, solid pieces of strewn rubble and broken girders for your models to hide behind, broken barricades and other details that really brings the character out of your battlefield.
If you have suggestions for what you want to see, please feel free to drop them into the comments.
You'll be able to choose the Ruined BattleZone as part of a scenery-only pledge or scenery add-on, such as Urban Skirmish ($50)
From there, we’ll be scenery free for a while (though of course we think Strike Team could use another Buildings Sprue or two…) whilst we focus on fleshing out the Asterians and the Forge Fathers, as well as detail more unique characters to keep Doctor Simmonds company.
The Asterians and Forge Fathers will be getting more troops and more equipment, such as Brokkrs, Shield Drones, Mining laser and more… then of course the mighty Headhunter might even make an appearance!
Simmonds is look rather lonely with it just being her and the Survivor (I suspect she's pretty jealous of his resistance to the Plague...) - she could use a few few characterful friends!
We’ll also be showing off new photography and more sculpts as we break into the last ten days of the campaign.
Speaking of which, here is a work in progress shot of The Survivor, straight from the sculptor's desk.
Not only that but we will be bringing out the Deadzone Beta rules on Wednesday, an improved set of rules tweaked according to your feedback. We think you’re going to like the tweaked turn activation system
kicktraq isn't an accurate indicator of where the total will end up, it's massively skewed by the big opening day and doesn't take into account the big finish most miniatures kickstarters experience. how could the software now that kingdom death would do a quarter of it's final total on the last day?
Sigh. Have you ever actually worn a helmet? How big do you think that guy's head must be under that thing? It's not truescale, it's reverse heroic scale...
Sigh. Have you ever actually worn a helmet? How big do you think that guy's head must be under that thing? It's not truescale, it's reverse heroic scale...
Yep. Compare helmet to torso and this dude has a teensy noggin.
Head is 1/8th of the total body height in adult males.
Almost no minis stick to this though, generally going for 1/6th, or even 1/5th for particularly goofy-looking or GW sculpts, which is why it can be jarring when you do see a properly proportioned mini.
i like the survivor, my question is is he even human? does it state that he is human, if not then this entire "pinhead" nonsense is nonsense.
edit:
and i love truescale/mantic scale stuff, i just want the orcs to go back to the concept art, i like the rippers, but i dont like the giant gw heads and gorilla arms.
Squig, are there going to be enough of the support pieces to hold all that roof And the "bridge"? That's my main concern, their sprue pics don't show any of the smaller connector pieces, and only 4 roof, balcony, bridge, walkway pieces per sprue, so it will be interesting to see exactly what you can model with this stuff, and just how well it will hold together without glue. If you've heard anything, especially if they've been playing with actual plastic pieces, we'd love to know.
There will be a seperate connector sprue in addition to the 4 tile sprues in every set. It'll be loaded with a lot more connectors than you need.
Black Nexus wrote: kicktraq isn't an accurate indicator of where the total will end up, it's massively skewed by the big opening day and doesn't take into account the big finish most miniatures kickstarters experience. how could the software now that kingdom death would do a quarter of it's final total on the last day?
We know.
But it is the only metric we can use to gauge the current and projected future of a project, so for that, it works out.. OK.
I wonder if it's particularly simple to access the raw data from kickstarter. It might be fun to play around with it and see if there are any decent models to fit it.
That and he has thick padded clothing on. I would say it is lack of a neck though not small head. Most head sizes are distorted even when claiming "true scale". I don't think it looks bad at all. A little too knit picky if folks want to fuss over the survivor.
I like the Survivor, I'm looking forward to painting mine..
I'm pledged as highly as I'm probably going to go at the moment,
Strike, a battlezone, and the detailing package, with extra postage for the Forgefathers.
If they want more cash out of me, they're going to have to come up with something jaw dropping.
Well, Robotech finally finished. That craptastic looking yet nostalgic game wasn't doing this one any favors. Hopefully retention won't be as much an issue moving forward.
Lansirill wrote: I wonder if it's particularly simple to access the raw data from kickstarter. It might be fun to play around with it and see if there are any decent models to fit it.
Take the average from Days 3-10, project using that + the overflow from Days 1-2 as an addition rather than using it in the average would be a non-scientific start. Though there's no real way to estimate the last-day bumps.
Earth Dragon wrote: Well, Robotech finally finished. That craptastic looking yet nostalgic game wasn't doing this one any favors. Hopefully retention won't be as much an issue moving forward.
Not saying much about Deadzone if even a "craptastic" game steals its audience...
Nostalgia is powerful, and the robotech crowd holds a lot of older, spendier players who wouldn't blink at spending >$700 or so; even comparatively few of those can make a big dent.
One of my gaming group's members backed out of funding Deadzone to drop $240 on Robotech, even though he has no serious intention of ever playing Robotech.
Robotech also had a clear focus, miniatures. Deadzone is all over the place like a mad woman's gak, here's some miniatures, now terrain, now a book, it's the KS equivalent of an Old Spice advertising campaign.
Joyboozer wrote: Robotech also had a clear focus, miniatures. Deadzone is all over the place like a mad woman's gak, here's some miniatures, now terrain, now a book, it's the KS equivalent of an Old Spice advertising campaign.
Yet a board full of terrain is a huge part of the game. So if it just focused on miniatures, you wouldn't even have all the tools you needed to play the game. Robotech also can only be used with Robotech. Pretty much everything here can be used with one or more other games.
Mantic should know better though at this point that gamers are short-sighted as a whole and don't understand the concept of filler goals. It's a marketing tool with a sound sensible basis that's just back firing at this point.
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Barzam wrote: Wow, somehow we've managed to drop nearly $2,000 tonight. We were almost at $525k, too.
Correction. It has been broken twice now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Squig. You are better off putting the next "actual" goal as the thread goal. I honestly think the goal is having an adverse effect itself, kinda like the Chovar Merc people freaked out about not getting for free.
I agree, without terrain this game won't work, people would be scared off by having to make their own.
I think the greater concern is the book and extra races at a later date goals so early in the campaign. It just doesn't look good.
Actually, Robotech can be used with Battletech, many of the minis are compatible. I know of a ton of people who went big on that project because there was a secondary use.
I would have gone in for the BT reasons, but only the Destroids are the proper size. The VF's are too big to be lights and the Zentradi-based stuff is too big for the weight class their in. I figure I will probably pick up some Archers from 'em down the road, but I didn't want to be saddled with any of the out of scale stuff. That and even if it is only being licensed through Palladium, KS is a bit of a control freak so I'm keeping well back until it is released to avoid any of his famed "rewrites" of finished material.
Still, no reason to disparage another KS, they did well for themselves and the concepts looked pretty good. Just not what I was hoping for as someone who wanted to raid them for BTech proxies.
Edit - And ouch, looks like a $1-1.5k backer pulled out recently. Oh well, I survived the gut-wrenching roller-coaster of the WZ KS campaign, bring on the high-pledge dropping!
At least in this campaign the high-level guys aren't backing new game content.
If we hit this goal, we will be able to tool the Recon Unit N32-19 unique figure, star of the Six_Alpha Twitter feed in the run up to the Kickstarter campaign beginning.
N32 is in danger, trapped by the Plague, his life in the balance. Can you save him?
Armed with a rapid-fire, neodurium-tipped Needle Gun and serrated blade, Recon Unit N32-19 was a fan favourite over on the Mantic Forums and not only will we give them this awesome new unique character some special rules, but Jake will also base a scenario around him.
If we hit this goal, we will give him away for free in pledges of Recon ($100+Early Bird)* and up!
The Pathfinder
Update #48 · May 21, 2013 · 22 comments
We came ever so close to locking the Short Story Compilation in and moving towards the Ruined Walls BattleZone and it looks like we have a little more work to do to get there.
Well, we’re in the mood for dropping our shoulder and racing towards the end, and when we had this render into our inbox this morning, we just couldn’t resist getting him up…
So, let’s begin with a new Stretch Goal!
$537,500 – Recon Unit N32-19
Gripping his weapon, his finger itching on the trigger, N32 breathed heavily, his back pressed against some low-lying rubble.
The Enforcer Pathfinder shifted slightly, reaching for his belt and unstrapping a metallic sphere from his belt. He tossed it in the air, a red glow bursting from the Drone's eye, and he opened the vidscreen. It lived.
He had eyes everywhere and still he couldn’t see where the beast had gone.
He’d been on the trail of the Prime Vector for days, even managing to unleash a salvo from his needle-gun into the colossal beast. And still it had kept going, luring N32 into the ruins of Nicorasi and it’s waiting brood.
Now he was cornered.
He knew the 3A’s were out there, he had heard their weapons fire, but it was the sight of the female that had concerned him – about as frightened as an Enforcer could get.
There.
He’d seen it, an oncoming pack – and the Female was with them!
The Pathfinder flicked open his Comms link, inputted the code and pulled himself off the ground...
<<N32-19 – requesting fire support>>
If we hit this goal, we will be able to tool the Recon Unit N32-19 unique figure, star of the Six_Alpha Twitter feed in the run up to the Kickstarter campaign beginning.
N32 is in danger, trapped by the Plague, his life in the balance. Can you save him?
Armed with a rapid-fire, neodurium-tipped Needle Gun and serrated blade, Recon Unit N32-19 was a fan favourite over on the Mantic Forums and not only will we give them this awesome new unique character some special rules, but Jake will also base a scenario around him.
If we hit this goal, we will give him away for free in pledges of Recon ($100+Early Bird)* and up!
* Not including the scenery only pledges.
Up Next:
We’re going to be posting up our road-map for the next part of our campaign in an update later today. With the Ruined BattleZone our last foray into scenery for a while, all those things you’ve been asking for will be addressed… look out for the update later today!
Oo, we’re also going to be refreshing our home page. Look out for the up-to-date pledge level diagrams, new simplified Add-on diagram and our guide to pledging coming later today.
Nice!
I'm really looking forward to this:
We’re going to be posting up our road-map for the next part of our campaign in an update later today.
as it will hopefully show us what's coming up for Forge Fathers and Asterians...
IMO, the lack of *current* value in this compared to Dreadball is the main factor for the pledge droppers at this point.
I can wail and bawl until the cows come home about how awesome the value in this will be on the final day, but that doesn't mean anyone has to pay attention to me.
I was kinda hoping we'd get all 6 teams, something like 6x13 minis + a bunch of mercs to end at 90 minis or thereabouts. We might get a swarm of plague zombies and a unit of warpath enforcers towards the end, but that seems to be it. I'm still confident it'll hit dreadball levels of value, but they haven't front-loaded the freebies properly, instead holding back on them after the massive day 1 made them think they needed to slow down when they really didn't. So, we've seen a lot of "endgame, would be nice but not essential, doesn't give any freebies" goals like the alternate battlezones really early on instead of the juicy ones like hard plastic enforcers that everyone would go nuts for.
Instead we got only 5 teams + one hell of a confusing and overelaborate "pay for shipping even though the pledge level says free shipping".. not good. $15 shipping on a $50 box in the Loka campaign was incredibly poorly received, I don't know why they chose to repeat it in the middle of this one after initially rolling with a good "free ship" model.
Now, shipping does have to be paid for, so if that means reducing the freebies then so be it. But in this case, both the freebies were reduced from what people were anticipating (no free new forgefathers) and there was the shipping to deal with, so it got confusing/ disappointing fast for a lot of people.
Nobody likes paying for "shipping", if they'd just put "new factions, only a $10 add-on!" people would have lapped it up and raised their pledges. But when you say "$10 for shipping for your freebie!" it all gets a bit, well, boring.. quite frankly. Especially if you're in the UK and starting to question why exactly a few small bits of lightweight restic in the second shipment costs £6-7 to post to you.
This is the kind of secondary stuff that will be in the back of people's minds, forming their decisions without them really realising it, the primary reason is "something else looks shinier", and the secondaries give them a reason to bail.
Mantic have some serious damage control to sort out at this point, they've done it before when other kickstarters have floundered (KoW and Loka), so I'm confident they'll pull it out of the bag, but at this late point in the campaign it's a matter of urgency.
Squig. You are better off putting the next "actual" goal as the thread goal. I honestly think the goal is having an adverse effect itself, kinda like the Chovar Merc people freaked out about not getting for free.
There wasn't a new stretch goal when you made that post, Mantic has made rumbling about ruins but didn't give an actual number, and now they've changed that to a merc so I'd have looked pretty stupid if I'd posted it. Also I was asleep.
Anyway, changed it to the new merc despite the fact that we're not there yet.
Add in the new factions are not complete yet. Why would I pledge $50 plus shipping in the hopes that more get added as stretch goals? Especially when those goals are as of yet not announced/specified and may not get achieved?
As it stands, those are just not good value.
Also considering that we will likely be asked to pledge based on concept art which Mantic have shown the propensity to deviate far away from (and not in a good way) and pledging for incomplete starters seems less attractive.
CptJake wrote: Add in the new factions are not complete yet. Why would I pledge $50 plus shipping in the hopes that more get added as stretch goals? Especially when those goals are as of yet not announced/specified and may not get achieved?
I completely forgot about that, thanks for the alt. perspective.
From my POV it's obvious that Mantic will fill out those factions instead of 5 minis for $35, but to new backers all they see is poor value without realising that it's going to get better.
The new marauder sculpts should be ready by the end of this week if I remember correctly.
scarletsquig wrote: Nobody likes paying for "shipping", if they'd just put "new factions, only a $10 add-on!" people would have lapped it up and raised their pledges. But when you say "$10 for shipping for your freebie!" it all gets a bit, well, boring.. quite frankly. Especially if you're in the UK and starting to question why exactly a few small bits of lightweight restic in the second shipment costs £6-7 to post to you.
This is very true. I feel like the number one issue for people and KS is shipping. People feel like Shipping is a 'loss' and expect in the world of Amazon prime and most companies shipping 'large' orders for free, if I drop 200$ on a product... it better damn well be free shipping.
Then you get to Kickstarters where they have weird issues like 'Our product is heavy, 50$ to Europe' and suddenly almost all the EU backers are simply gone from your pledgebase.
One of the problems when you attempt to ship in waves, yes people get stuff faster, but now you have multiplied your shipping. So you have the following options:
1. Only make one shipment, which means plan your delivery date and potential stretch goals to all fit within your original manufacturing capacity so it all ships at once, on time.
2. Make multiple shipments, but set price points to average out to cover shipping so people may pay 12$ instead of 10$ but everyone gets free shipping for everything.
3. Have complicated shipping fine-print, with conflicting easy to misunderstand options, confuse and discourage backers, take the focus off the KS itself and then when it funds, enrage a bunch of people by asking for 'BTW, I need 10$ more than what you pledged because you failed to read the fine print.'
And If I was doing a KS, I would do my damnedest to figure out a partner in each of the major markets to handle redistribution to cut costs. I have seen many KS take almost deathblows from shipping issues and cutting out whole markets, Especially Indegogo ones which are EU based and want US/AUS to pay for shipping, they just fail hard losing those markets.
Personally, Added shipping is not one of my hot buttons. If I want a model or a game or 'something', I don't mind paying for it, and shipping to get it. I accept a wide range of prices for things because many low-run products can cost a lot more... But I have seen the shipping thing come up a lot in regards to KS. Someone will pay 50$ for something but not 40$ with 10$ shipping because they feel like that is 10$ thrown down a crapper.
Earth Dragon wrote: Well, Robotech finally finished. That craptastic looking yet nostalgic game wasn't doing this one any favors. Hopefully retention won't be as much an issue moving forward.
Especially when you compare the Hydrocephalic Orx Marauders and Enforcer Captain Grumpypants to the beautiful mecha designs of Shoji Kawamori... sorry, Deadzone looks like a turd. Didn't stop me from supporting both, and still no reason to attack another KS (why? because it was super successful?)
Doesn't help either that Spartan Games released their new line of scenerey. Spendy, sure for MDF laser-etched, but imo far more attractive than the fairly boxy Deadzone terrain.
IMO, the lack of *current* value in this compared to Dreadball is the main factor for the pledge droppers at this point.
i think this is nonsense to be honest.
you're getting $175 worth of models, $50 worth of scenery, a $20 gaming mat, $10 hero before you even get into the game components.
those plastic tiles aren't small, easily worth 3,4 or even 5 minis each.
and actually, if you "Front load" the freebies, you have nothing to give away free later on. they alone know their margins, what they absolutely have to make what they can give away and the scenery doesn't look cheap and neithers shipping.
Eh. That looks like every other MDF/HDF laser cut terrain set that's out on the market already. The only thing those Spartan sets really have going for them is the resin accessories and that space ship. Beyond those, this isn't anything special. I very highly doubt this is going to make any kind of dent in Deadzone's sales.
I still think that period in the first couple of days when they had no stretch goals listed is when they should have gotten some of these, shall we say less interesting goals put out, like the fiction and maybe have the funding for the other two factions set around that period as well. I think they took too long to get the stretches out and wasted some the kickstarter's most productive days.
I personally love that spartan scenery. I considered going in for some Mantic scenery, but the more I looked at it the more plain it looks. It looks like something out of a toy aisle at Walmart.
Showing that chart isn't gonna help anything Alph. It just makes more flakes flake like peasants fleeing from battle. Some gamers grabbed their pitchforks since this was the "cool thing to do" then once it hit a few bumps, several ran off, it became apparent they were running off, an others followed suit.
scarletsquig wrote: Another 3D render from me, for those of you wondering how much terrain you get for $50:
[/img]
If we get another 1 free sprue added to Strike Team, then the above picture will be accurate for the terrain you get in that as well.
That's actually pretty good coverage. There are some fire lanes that are too long, but any gamer worth their salt can make some tall barricades, fences or rubble piles to break those up.
Thanks for posting that.
Does anyone have a recollection of roughly how the value of the KoW and Dreadball kickstarters improved over time? I wonder how much of this is people thinking 'Mantic is always a great value.' while it takes awhile to get there. Really this thing could end today and it'll have been a success and a good value, with the arguable exception of the expanded universe kits.
--
Nice mockup for the 2x2. I was planning on getting 8 or 10 battlezones worth of terrain to cover a 4x4 infinity board and it looks like that will indeed work out well. Mantic's guidelines appear to have turned out fairly accurate.
Lansirill wrote: Nice mockup for the 2x2. I was planning on getting 8 or 10 battlezones worth of terrain to cover a 4x4 infinity board and it looks like that will indeed work out well. Mantic's guidelines appear to have turned out fairly accurate.
Thanks, I went ahead and made a mockup for 4x4 as well since I know that's the size a lot of you will be more interested in. Really good coverage for $185 of terrain, I think you'd struggle to get this kind of "full board coverage" from MDF/HDF terrain at that price, and the GW terrain won't do it for that price either.
Plus, there is some variety that can be added, that pic is just using the core worlds set and nothing else.
Add a landing pad set, and you could replace those 4 towers with a raised landing pad in the centre as well as making some non-boxy buildings with the triangle pieces... put an AW dropship on the top and have one hell of an impressive gaming board.
So Squig, would you feel it's safe to say if you got Suppression Team, the 8 battlezones add-on and 3 mats (a $670 pledge), you'd have a pretty packed full board?
^ You'd be able to pretty much anything you wanted with that, you'd have around 14 battlezones total, 75% more stuff that is shown in the above pic.
You'd be looking at being able to do lots of high-rise or pyramids with walkways leading to towers coming off them or pretty much whatever you want within that 4x4 space.
The above pic doesn't include the 4 accessory sprues you also get with the $185 level, so there's a ton of ladders, crates, barrels and angled battlement/ siding pieces that you also get as well.
Earth Dragon wrote: Showing that chart isn't gonna help anything Alph. It just makes more flakes flake like peasants fleeing from battle. Some gamers grabbed their pitchforks since this was the "cool thing to do" then once it hit a few bumps, several ran off, it became apparent they were running off, an others followed suit.
Focus on the fight, not the flight.
Disagree, completely.
The facts are the facts, and the sooner the ship is righted, the better.
Earth Dragon wrote: Showing that chart isn't gonna help anything Alph. It just makes more flakes flake like peasants fleeing from battle. Some gamers grabbed their pitchforks since this was the "cool thing to do" then once it hit a few bumps, several ran off, it became apparent they were running off, an others followed suit.
Focus on the fight, not the flight.
Disagree, completely.
The facts are the facts, and the sooner the ship is righted, the better.
Something is always wrong if withholding data is reasoned away with the common good.
But at the same time raw numbers posted sans-context are meaningless. Sure, pledges over the last few days haven't been mind-blowingly high, but they have generally kept up fairly well compared to, say, Dreadball. I think the main problem is people contextualizing the data from Kicktraq as inherently bad and trying to push the narrative that a KS that has done quite well is floundering (possibly because more than a few people were coming up with some kind of Robotech rivalry in their head and so are comparing this campaign to that one). People are getting to convinced of their own predictions on how well they thought it should be doing.
I remember a week or two in, people were declaring that backers per day would unlikely ever dip below 40-50 people. I get the urge for people to go out, grab a flag and team jersey and root for their side but when that enthusiasm starts to sour because they should be doing better than this that sentiment can turn toxic.
I have backed Kickstarters that would have killed to put up Mantic's numbers as they stand. So posting them with a comment indicating that it is somehow bad seems weird to me. Is the sub $10k day thing less than they have generally gotten lately? Sure! Is it a bad total? No! If the KS ended today would I regret backing it? Not a chance.
So post the numbers, that's cool. But I think that we are letting our bias show up in how we interpret them at this point.
But then again, this is pretty normal for people to start getting all downtrodden around this time in a KS, so it doesn't surprise me. I just think people are starting to fetishize Kicktraq numbers themselves rather than focusing on the Kickstarter. Wallowing in a pit of "X < Y, we're all going to die!" isn't going to help and just makes me think people need to sit back, have a cold one and maybe do something else for a bit.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ You'd be able to pretty much anything you wanted with that, you'd have around 14 battlezones total, 75% more stuff that is shown in the above pic.
You'd be looking at being able to do lots of high-rise or pyramids with walkways leading to towers coming off them or pretty much whatever you want within that 4x4 space.
The above pic doesn't include the 4 accessory sprues you also get with the $185 level, so there's a ton of ladders, crates, barrels and angled battlement/ siding pieces that you also get as well.
While we can't really get into what the different ones would look like since we have no idea what the sprue layout on the new battlezones will be, I wonder how the fortification and landing pad would fit into that. If you had 6 battlezones, could you still fill out a table if you didn't want to use the "specialty" zones?
Just trying to establish what the level of value is looking like in a large-scale pledge in this regard.
As the campaign has evolved it started to become more of a “Kick within a Kick” – which is great because not only do we now have a beautiful range of sci-fi figures that also crossover into our Warpath armies, but we also have a brilliant game and an excellent science fiction scenery range.
However, with the reveal of the Ruined BattleZone pledge level we’re all but done with the scenery and from here on out we’re going to be focusing on the core game by:
Finishing the Asterians and the Forge Father Faction Starters
Our newest additions need some love and they will be getting some awesome specialists and fantastic support options as we finish off the Faction Starters in style.
Expanding the Game
We’ve already started fleshing out the core Game with some new and unique characters such as Simmonds and Recon Unit N32-19 - both of which are free in game pledges of Recon ($100+Early Bird) and up!
We’ve got more to come – a psychotic Judwan has been spotted and there’s rumours of a wicked headhunter wandering around these parts – and we’re going to cap them off with Solo Play and Zombies.
Yep, Zombies.
Those Corporation explorers on Nexus Psi never were safe…
From there – we’re going BIG!
Big boards, big faction expansions (we’re talking orbital drop troops, 2-man weapon teams, new leaders, bigger named characters and more assault rifles and heavy weapons than you can shake a Corporation Carbine at!!) and bigger kits means your factions will be dripping in character and variety.
Some more discussion from Ronnie about what's coming next for the kickstarter:
Ronnie Renton wrote:Once we are through 'finishing' the core factions, solo play and the named characters we will start in earnest looking at the game on a 4x4. this does a couple of things - it brings ranges into effect - until this point it is only pistols and grenades that have been limited - but with a 'killing zone' between the factions there is room for bigger things, and faster things and things that shoot further - like 2 man weapon teams!!!
What this means is that you will start having to pick your favorite faction (or 2!) and tool them up for larger skirmishes... and for each faction we will look to provide a 'booster pack' - with another leader (to command the second squad who looks different than the captain), 2 man weapon teams (HMGs, mortars, shield and weapons combos - you know the types) and a few more (hard core) specialists - once through that a name character for each faction - a proper big, hard dude/bossman - and then a vehicle - bikes, jeeps/walkers and kick-ass robots!
Glad they're looking into vehicles after all. I just hope we'll be able to reach that goal. I just noticed we've reached $525k though, so there's hope.
Ronin_eX wrote: But at the same time raw numbers posted sans-context are meaningless. Sure, pledges over the last few days haven't been mind-blowingly high, but they have generally kept up fairly well compared to, say, Dreadball. I think the main problem is people contextualizing the data from Kicktraq as inherently bad and trying to push the narrative that a KS that has done quite well is floundering (possibly because more than a few people were coming up with some kind of Robotech rivalry in their head and so are comparing this campaign to that one). People are getting to convinced of their own predictions on how well they thought it should be doing.
I remember a week or two in, people were declaring that backers per day would unlikely ever dip below 40-50 people. I get the urge for people to go out, grab a flag and team jersey and root for their side but when that enthusiasm starts to sour because they should be doing better than this that sentiment can turn toxic.
I have backed Kickstarters that would have killed to put up Mantic's numbers as they stand. So posting them with a comment indicating that it is somehow bad seems weird to me. Is the sub $10k day thing less than they have generally gotten lately? Sure! Is it a bad total? No! If the KS ended today would I regret backing it? Not a chance.
So post the numbers, that's cool. But I think that we are letting our bias show up in how we interpret them at this point.
But then again, this is pretty normal for people to start getting all downtrodden around this time in a KS, so it doesn't surprise me. I just think people are starting to fetishize Kicktraq numbers themselves rather than focusing on the Kickstarter. Wallowing in a pit of "X < Y, we're all going to die!" isn't going to help and just makes me think people need to sit back, have a cold one and maybe do something else for a bit.
That's a heck of a circular argument there, combined with a fair amount of "moral highgrounding"!
In the end - don't fear the truth. Or the numbers.
Anyway...
The Deadzone Kickstarter continues to storm ahead, smashing through $500,000 and knocking over a couple of stretches over the weekend, adding in a free faction starter of your choice (that's up to 13 free models) and a special unique character.
As the campaign has evolved it started to become more of a “Kick within a Kick” – which is great because not only do we now have a beautiful range of sci-fi figures that also crossover into our Warpath armies, but we also have a brilliant game and an excellent science fiction scenery range.
However, with the reveal of the Ruined BattleZone pledge level we’re all but done with the scenery and from here on out we’re going to be focusing on the core game by:
Finishing the Asterians and the Forge Father Faction Starters
Our newest additions need some love and they will be getting some awesome specialists and fantastic support options as we finish off the Faction Starters in style.
Expanding the Game
We’ve already started fleshing out the core Game with some new and unique characters such as Simmonds and Recon Unit N32-19 - both of which are free in game pledges of Recon ($100+Early Bird) and up!
Enforcer Pathfinder Recon Unit N32-19 and the late Doctor Gayle Simmonds.
We’ve got more to come – a psychotic Judwan has been spotted and there’s rumours of a wicked headhunter wandering around these parts – and we’re going to cap them off with Solo Play and Zombies.
Yep, Zombies.
Those Corporation explorers on Nexus Psi never were safe…
From there – we’re going BIG!
Big boards, big faction expansions (we’re talking orbital drop troops, 2-man weapon teams, new leaders, bigger named characters and more assault rifles and heavy weapons than you can shake a Corporation Carbine at!!) and bigger kits means your factions will be dripping in character and variety.
Join us and let's see which of these concepts we can unlock!
From here on out it’s all about the creating the best science fiction game we can make: Fantastic Miniatures, Awesome Scenery, a Fast, Simple and Fun Rules System.
This is Deadzone. Please pledge your support on Kickstarter.
Earth Dragon wrote: Showing that chart isn't gonna help anything Alph. It just makes more flakes flake like peasants fleeing from battle. Some gamers grabbed their pitchforks since this was the "cool thing to do" then once it hit a few bumps, several ran off, it became apparent they were running off, an others followed suit.
Focus on the fight, not the flight.
Disagree, completely.
The facts are the facts, and the sooner the ship is righted, the better.
Something is always wrong if withholding data is reasoned away with the common good.
Well, you can throw out cheesy philosophy all you want. Constantly posting that people are abandoning ship whilst nothing is wrong is just gonna cause panic and in turn more people abandoning ship. We've seen there is a problem. There is a HUGE difference between withholding data and constantly showcasing data people already know about.
Is that a Judwan I see there? I like them! Shame I will not be playing the rebs, it's the Enforcers, plague and Forge Fathers for me! (If the FF turn out like the DB ones that is!).
Ronin_eX wrote: But at the same time raw numbers posted sans-context are meaningless. Sure, pledges over the last few days haven't been mind-blowingly high, but they have generally kept up fairly well compared to, say, Dreadball. I think the main problem is people contextualizing the data from Kicktraq as inherently bad and trying to push the narrative that a KS that has done quite well is floundering (possibly because more than a few people were coming up with some kind of Robotech rivalry in their head and so are comparing this campaign to that one). People are getting to convinced of their own predictions on how well they thought it should be doing.
**snip**
I have backed Kickstarters that would have killed to put up Mantic's numbers as they stand. So posting them with a comment indicating that it is somehow bad seems weird to me. Is the sub $10k day thing less than they have generally gotten lately? Sure! Is it a bad total? No! If the KS ended today would I regret backing it? Not a chance.
The only kickstarters that are negatively affecting this one are namely the other ones done by Mantic that seem to have had a significant increase in complaints recently. People are noticing that the art they saw in previous efforts isn't matching to their expectations the models they're actually getting or finally seeing. Add to that an apparent perceived lack of mantic levels of value (whether true or not) and the that this is a relatively long campaign where the added week is apparently firmly in the typical mid-kickstarter lull. This kickstarter is already a big success and even if it only earns 5k per day for the rest of the campaign with no tail, it'll still be a huge seller. I see no way of this campaign thon-ing out frankly so getting your feathers in a ruffle over posted stats is a bit pointless as it's a non-issue in the end when there are other tangible reasons (see above) why the kickstarter isn't performing to fan expected standards.
Does anyone own the pegasus hobbies hex or platformer terrain to compare the value of the deadzone battlezones to those existing kits? I've been on the fence about going in for the urban battlefield pledge but I get the feeling I could do better buying some of the pegasus kits from the warstore.
I am also very weary of going into a pledge level that is "done for a while."
The Judwan will be a very hard close combat opponent if they decided to turn there hand to it. There meditation is almost a form of Martial Arts, they remind me of Shalin Monks.
Well we've seen painted pictures of the Grogan, that hand/feet guy, and the two human troops. They've been showed in a lot of random photos. Only ones we haven't seen is the little running fella, commander, and flying dude so far. Oh, and the drones.
Hulksmash wrote: Well we've seen painted pictures of the Grogan, that hand/feet guy, and the two human troops. They've been showed in a lot of random photos. Only ones we haven't seen is the little running fella, commander, and flying dude so far. Oh, and the drones.
Yeah, in the "action shots". I mean photos of the miniatures and that's it. Kinda like you would for the webstore.
If when all is said and done and I've got Enforcer/ Reb mecha slugging it out with Spikey McPlauge as heavy weapons teams perched on a catwalk three stories above are blowing chunks out of the walls to allow an allied squad through, I'll be in a state of gaming Nirvana.
Doesn't hurt to have family pledging nice and high either for bloody family gatherings.
Dais wrote: Does anyone own the pegasus hobbies hex or platformer terrain to compare the value of the deadzone battlezones to those existing kits? I've been on the fence about going in for the urban battlefield pledge but I get the feeling I could do better buying some of the pegasus kits from the warstore.
I am also very weary of going into a pledge level that is "done for a while."
They get the job done, but they are far from great quality, and frankly, look a little odd mixed with other stuff. I'm liking this terrain since, as far as Sci-Fi buildings go, it should be able to blend with a wider variety of stuff. The Hexagon sets are also kinda a one time shot. Very hard to break apart again, and difficult to really think of anything overly elaborate to build. Squares are better then hexes.
Ok, so... contributor hat off, consumer hat on....
I've been quiet as of late, as my loyalty is obviously a touch torn. That said... I feel like, in broad strokes, the "road-map" was a good call, and that hearing about faction-boosters, larger scale, more nods toward acknowledging the Warpath hooks, vehicles, etc.... all of that is music to my ears. I am enthused, and briefly felt excited about throwing my $400 or what-not, back at this...
... then someone from Mantic posted on the KS that they're bumping up against the limits of what they can add to a $150 pledge.... and that they hope/expect add-ons to be what drive numbers going forward.
I REALLY hope that doesn't mean we've hit the "added value" wall, and that where we are is largely where we'll be. I don't know yet that I feel "done", and certainly want to feel some balance of getting more for your buck, in accordance with asking more for add-ons. Going strictly one way sounds like a sure fire way to stagnate.
Anyway, my pledges are intact, my hope strong... but I do feel a bit like smirking at how my own feelings, and fortunes change in short spans of time. After a rough start, I suddenly feel like All Quiet on the Martian Front has suddenly found its footing, value, etc... and can't do wrong (it helps that their alpha playtest was fun as hell).... whereas my Deadzone enthusiasm has stopped advancing, and i'm sort of just in for some terrain and as an excuse to invest in the Warpath IP.
Great chat with Ronnie tonight on the ks comments, seemed very open to any new ideas and let slip plenty of info on where deadzone is heading.
We should see a load of new info rolled out this week. Mantic plan to finish of the basic game this week with the final week when they go crazy with giant robots, support weapons, small vehicles, plastic zombies, solo rules and other expansions.
Looking good for the future. Plus they will shortly have up a rolling list of the next 100k stretch goals
Edit - Ronnie stated that the two new factions would be rounded out fully before the strike pledge was maxed out, plus there would be more free stuff for striker after that.
If the Dreadball is a template then by some time you will indeed reach the point that the "core" will not get much extras, logical as you need the backers to spend on add on and the add on will start get move value for money with streachgoals making them more value for money.
It does not mean there will not be the odd free update for the core pledge or that they free stuff for it will not be spaced, but tis time to look at the extras, look at t this way, forge fathers and Asterians need to be fleshed out, none is from the core box so all free updates for them are de facto not in the core pledge.
Well if the issues with KoW (for those that think there were problems) are down to cost,
and this does seem to be the case since they had to do the extra command bits in metal and using their own cash not KS funds
And the issue of overly thick mould lines on a few (by no means all) dreadball minis was attributed to running the line to fast (so meaning less expensive machine time)
it could well be both previous campaigns were too generous in terms of give aways and this time mantic will have to reduce them somewhat to allow them to produce a still higher quality product...
Whoever was complaining that a "4 mats" add-on wasn't there (I forget who but there was like 2-3 pages of discussion on the matter a while back... well, now there is!
Looks like there's 6 more mercs that Mantic wants to unlock, too, with 3 of those being free in Strike Team.
scarletsquig wrote: Whoever was complaining that a "4 mats" add-on wasn't there (I forget who but there was like 2-3 pages of discussion on the matter a while back... well, now there is!
Looks like there's 6 more mercs that Mantic wants to unlock, too, with 3 of those being free in Strike Team.
That would be H.B.M.C., I believe - now he be happy, for certain!
scarletsquig wrote: Whoever was complaining that a "4 mats" add-on wasn't there (I forget who but there was like 2-3 pages of discussion on the matter a while back... well, now there is!
Indeed there is.. at absolutely no savings compared with before. The price for the new even numbered amount of mats is exactly the price of the old odd numbered actual deals (that save you $5-10) plus the full price of adding the single mat add on. I guess that technically saves you a mouse click in the pledge manager but no additional money with the new offerings.
Aye, it's definitely a "math is hard, lets go shopping!" add-on.
New renders are cool, but they don't really show off the terrain as it'll be used by players themselves... people will want to make functional-looking, enclosed buildings or open ruins with the kits, not abstract lines of walls.
scarletsquig wrote: Whoever was complaining that a "4 mats" add-on wasn't there (I forget who but there was like 2-3 pages of discussion on the matter a while back... well, now there is!
Looks like there's 6 more mercs that Mantic wants to unlock, too, with 3 of those being free in Strike Team.
That would be H.B.M.C., I believe - now he be happy, for certain!
scarletsquig wrote: Whoever was complaining that a "4 mats" add-on wasn't there (I forget who but there was like 2-3 pages of discussion on the matter a while back... well, now there is!
Looks like there's 6 more mercs that Mantic wants to unlock, too, with 3 of those being free in Strike Team.
Judging from Mantic's KS comments one of those locked panels in Strike Team will likely be upgraded counters.
No, the locked panel will be something else--there's already a panel showing the current card counters, so if there's an upgrade it will replace that panel.
That doesn't mean each locked panel will be a merc, though. Probably, yes, but not certainly. Nor does it account for the additional 2 terrain sprues that will be coming to Strike, and of course if any additional minis are added to the factions themselves they'll go up there and not in the locked panels.
All you can really say for sure is that, provided pledging goes high enough, there are at least four freebie stretch goals to be added to Strike Team (the sprues, plus the three panels).
New renders are cool, but they don't really show off the terrain as it'll be used by players themselves... people will want to make functional-looking, enclosed buildings or open ruins with the kits, not abstract lines of walls.
players of 40K maybe, i suspect deadzone will look more like this after looking at photographs of jakes' alpha game.
still, look forward to seeing more renders tomorrow, apparently they've got a lot they'll be teasing out.
I just took another look at the Survivor, and I noticed he has a fairly wide stance. Does this mean that Deadzone figures won't come on the classic Mantic bases?
Well good on Mantic. They seem to have just unlocked the battle damage terrain without a stretch goal to hopefully increase the pace of the kickstarter back to models.
Huh, where's the source on that? I think they just added a stretch in between to push things along with a free mini. The ruined battlezone is still at $250k as far as I know. Unless they posted something in the comments I don't think any of the updates have changed that.
Still very tempted by the terrain, broken down and spread out like above it looks like a very good table filler for a very reasonable price and lets face it if you are playing necro you will be using that style....
can see me going in for a few battlezones at least.
Hell, that kind of terrain is still good for Infinity. Lots of broken sight lines, lots of verticality. I will probably only make a couple of full on buildings with a punch of industrial walkway stuff.
I'm still trying to figure what breakdown of battlezone themes I'll be using. I'm thinking (not including the pile from Strike Team) that a nice mix of a couple core, a landing pad and a fortifications set will do me good. I have enough ruined terrain so I'll probably pass on that (though they look really good). It also occurs to me that this stuff would be great for doing various Infinity objectives for Paradiso (especially those ubiquitoues 12"X12" rooms). I may have to make a few roofless rooms just for that. Hmm, suddenly the $95 terrain add-on is feeling so small. Oh well, we'll see how it goes. I still have another $85 to throw at this, so I will probably wait to see what FF upgrades we get after reaching $550k.
There is a consideration for a mini rulebook (from the scientist level) as an add on
Antenociti's bundles have been expanded in quantity (and some new items) so they are even better deal
There are a few more things to be added for free in striker, but it is nearing maxing out (I assume this is because the next stretch goals will be for Asterians and Forge Fathers that are not part of striker)
Focus now will be in getting new backers to bolster the ranks of backers already supporting the game
There will be booster sets for the faction packs
Beta should be up today and there is discussion about 4x4 multiplayer and solo play rules, there was also discussion for cooperative multiplayer play
Building renders should be up today
Orx are been worked on, but will be up only when they feel the models are up to our expectations
There will be better/ more redesign on the frontpage to make the project focus more evident and there will be more streachgoals in advance
Forge Fathers and Asterians will get a blitz of updates to bring them in line with the other starters
There will be some solution to the second wave shipping posted today
Female enforcer(s?) are in.... ok ok this did not need a bullet point, but I am glad there was an announcement about them
There was also discussion about customization packs of heads and gear, a push in getting more coverage about it, versions of infected and not infected of characters, Dr Simmonds been the spotlight but were not that well received as an idea by the community snd discussion of more "Mantic Value" in the project so more models.
I just noticed the '4 Free Terrain Sprues' on the Strike Team pledge. Any idea if this means we get 13 sprues with Strike Team, or was that from way back in the beginning and was just us taking us from 5 sprues to 9?
And any details on what changed in the Antenociti bundles? I was kindof meh about them originally, but I could be persuaded to change my mind,
At the 'Ranger' level you get 10 containers and a bunch of steps/railings/walkways for $135. Not cheap, but I didn't think it was too bad a deal. Any stretch goals will make it better.
I don't get the scifi vibe from the Maki KS. I can either make shipping containers or some skull infested monstrosity, neither of which interest me greatly. I know they've talked about different designs and I'll look back again at it, but right now I'm not impressed by the aesthetic nor impressed by the buy-in price.
I hope Mantic can get the Forge Father and Asterian factions completely filled out as fast as possible, preferably with a single modest stretch goal. Having them sloooowly be unlocked a few new specialist and duplicate figures at a time will take longer than they have time for at this point in the KS cycle. I even wonder if it would be worth it to Mantic to hedge their bets and say, "we'll cover the tooling costs for these" and just put up the completed sets as add-ons immediately.
Mantic now has to prioritize what stretch goals they consider essential to accomplish by the KS's end, without taking massive pledge escalation in the final days for granted. This is my first KS and I could just be a poor backseat strategist, but pledging trends on this campaign have absolutely baffled me, rising when I was sure they'd fall and falling when I was sure they'd rise. If the Ruins stretch goal turns out to be killing momentum over the next day or two, Mantic might even want to consider saving ruins as a major theme for a future expansion and completely replace them with other stretch goals for now. As a customer, I'd like to have the ruins available to add-on, but not at the expense of the campaign's overall success.
If Maki makes to 40.000 they will do a Sci Fi themed container, that looks A LOT like the terrain on Deadzone.
They a a touch smaller (2,75 inches (high and wide) and 5.5 inches long against 3 inches all around on deadzone), but if they make to the 40K stretch goal, I might pick a couple to add some variety to the table
Dakka is starting to look like the comments section in the Kickstarter, which has, for the past three days been filled with "OMG Robotech!" "OMG Galaxy Defenders!" "OMG Maki!" "OMG Spartan!" far more than actual discussion about Deadzone itself.
It was a relief to have Ronnie chatting in the KS comments last night just to get things semi back on-topic, even if half of the questions were about Brian Blessed...
Since about 10% of the posts in the Maki-thread are about Deadzone, not least those by you Squig, it only seems fair if at least 10% or so of the posts in the Deadzone thread would be about Maki.
^ I gave my opinion on Maki on the Maki thread. It's nice enough, but the Mantic stuff costs at least three times less.
At the risk of going wildly on-topic and completely derailing the discussion in this thread, here's a couple of new links that have been put up by Mantic, one for the terrain renders and another for a recommended pledge loadout:
Dakka is starting to look like the comments section in the Kickstarter, which has, for the past three days been filled with "OMG Robotech!" "OMG Galaxy Defenders!" "OMG Maki!" "OMG Spartan!" far more than actual discussion about Deadzone itself.
It was a relief to have Ronnie chatting in the KS comments last night just to get things semi back on-topic, even if half of the questions were about Brian Blessed...
You constantly are dropping comments for Mantic products in other people's KS threads... Double standard much? You have made multiple "dreadzone's terrain is better' in other people's threads already.
Comparing products quality and value is part of the discussion. If people see a legitimately better product or cheaper and they want to support it, then it is valid to discuss here.
The main reason I'm out of this kickstarter is the main reason why I first became a Mantic customer: I love plastic.
Having re-evaluated how much time I want to spend on restics thanks to Dreadball, I've decided to wait until the hard plastics of the Warpath KS come out.
However, I probably still would have stayed in for forgefathers and asterians if it hadn't been for Mantic's handling of the KoW and Dreadball kickstarters. They have openly admitted to ditching the concepts they sold backers on as well as repeatedly promising to fix unsatisfactory models only to renege. Their attitude is difficult to reconcile with the company that seemed to care about satisfying customers last year.
I too would like to just see some of the proposed stretches put up in one fell swoop.
After getting confirmation that the booster packs for the starter factions will be static and set, I hope those go up soon because I would imagine if they offer any sort of discount on multiple purchases the total should start climbing.
At that point put a farther stretch goal where both factions get completely filled out and we'll keep climbing from there.
I find the smaller table with taller terrain much more visually interesting than the 4x4 space with less. Unfortunately I can't afford it right now, but sometime down the road I may try and pick up more of this terrain.
Because I've only been keeping a cursory glance at this KS (I did the Ron Popiel, I set it [my pledge] and forgot it ) How many sprues makes up a battlezone?
Alfndrate wrote: Because I've only been keeping a cursory glance at this KS (I did the Ron Popiel, I set it [my pledge] and forgot it ) How many sprues makes up a battlezone?
4 Building Sprues
1 Connector Sprue
So 4 sprues worth of tiles, bits, ladders, and so on, and then another sprue of all the little fiddly bits to snap everything together.
That's so funny that they made that picture. They have way more solid "walls" and "floors" shown than actually come on the sprues they showed. And, unless those walkway railings are on the connector sprues, they weren't shown on the two core worlds sprues. So, it's funny that the walkway with railing is used for the core worlds representation, but neither actually appears on the sprues they showed.
I want to buy in on the terrain, but their ability to go from artwork to real pieces actually scares the out of me more so with the terrain than the figures. I really hope they have some renders of the other battlezones before the end of the KS. Because if it is going to take 4 sprues to make that defence position, then that's not worth it. And the damaged sections are all heavily armored, so doesn't really fit in with interchanging with the core worlds stuff. I really don't like my DB stuff, so I don't want the figures, but I'd really like for the terrain besides the core world stuff to be good.
Alfndrate wrote:So as it stands, if I've pledge for the Strike Team, I currently have 2.25 Battlezones worth of terrain sprues and could roughly make the following?
Sorry for the questions, KS is work blocked and I'm very behind the times I'm just trying to imagine everything I'm getting
Okay, I'm going to (of course) say the opposite of kenshin and say that you don't get quite that much. You get 9 sprues with Strike Team, but only 6 of them are building sprues. So you're more accurately looking at 1.5 battlezones (plus a little extra in terms of connectors.)
Alfndrate wrote:So as it stands, if I've pledge for the Strike Team, I currently have 2.25 Battlezones worth of terrain sprues and could roughly make the following?
Sorry for the questions, KS is work blocked and I'm very behind the times I'm just trying to imagine everything I'm getting
Okay, I'm going to (of course) say the opposite of kenshin and say that you don't get quite that much. You get 9 sprues with Strike Team, but only 6 of them are building sprues. So you're more accurately looking at 1.5 battlezones (plus a little extra in terms of connectors.)
Hahaha, perhaps I can ask the question in the comments section . I'm debating about adding more to my pledge so I can get more stuff... I'm kind of tapped atm as it is, but one can never have too much terrain.
Alfndrate wrote:So as it stands, if I've pledge for the Strike Team, I currently have 2.25 Battlezones worth of terrain sprues and could roughly make the following?
Sorry for the questions, KS is work blocked and I'm very behind the times I'm just trying to imagine everything I'm getting
Okay, I'm going to (of course) say the opposite of kenshin and say that you don't get quite that much. You get 9 sprues with Strike Team, but only 6 of them are building sprues. So you're more accurately looking at 1.5 battlezones (plus a little extra in terms of connectors.)
Counting the walls and half-walls that picture is made from roughly seven building sprues.
pretre wrote: I'm ashamed to admit it, but their recommended loadout made me add $68 (Forgefathers/Elves, Chovar and Hellfather).
I keep waiting to pledge more but I don't want to open the flood gates!
C'mon, you know you want to.
I figure the way I have it, I get one of each faction (plus a duplicate) and all the mercs. I don't need extra terrain, I have a bunch. $218 isn't bad for one of everything.
Did you forget the extra faction individual models? The Marauder Hulk, Kreegaw, Enforcer w/Lasercannon, and Plague Grenadier? Seems like the 218 wouldn't cover all that to for one of everything...
Hulksmash wrote: Did you forget the extra faction individual models? The Marauder Hulk, Kreegaw, Enforcer w/Lasercannon, and Plague Grenadier? Seems like the 218 wouldn't cover all that to for one of everything...
Reinforcements have arrived!
And that’s Recon Unit N32-19 locked in!!
We’ll now include him free in pledges of Recon ($100 and Early Bird) and Strike Team ($150 plus Early Bird)!
Up next:
$550,000 – Ruined BattleZone
Featuring area cover pieces, debris, and a mix of newly designed broken and battle damaged tiles (these won’t all be the same designs as on the Core World Sprue), if we hit this goal we’ll be able to tool the Ruined Building sprue and unlock the BattleZone for you to pick and choose from as part of your scenery pledge or scenery add-on.
This kit is fully compatible with the Core Worlds Building Sprue, allowing you to introduce new character and details to your battlefield.
Up next, we’re going to be doing some work on fleshing out the Asterians and Forge Fathers:
$560,000 – Asterian and Forge Father Faction Support
Forge Father Inferno Drill
Brokkr Engineers have harnessed the power of one of their hull-mounted Inferno Drills – an industrial mining laser – and have bolted it onto a tracked base. On the battlefield it is difficult to maneuver, often leaving the operator at risk from oncoming fire, but can cut through all but the toughest armour.
Asterian Weapon Drone with Energy Cannon/Shield Generator
The Asterians’ dependence on light units can lead to them being outclassed when coming up against heavily-armed opponents; the Support Drone is the standard response. They can be fitted with shield generators to protect those around them; Fission Beams, which mirror the flux rifle in tearing its target apart at a subatomic level, or the Force Cannon, which fires destructive blasts of concussive energy.
If we hit this goal, we will be to sculpt and tool:
- The Asterian Weapon Drone with Fission Beam/Shield Generator options, and add it to the Asterian Faction Starter!
- The Forge Father Inferno Drill and crew member, and add it to the Forge Father Faction Starter!
$575,000 – Asterian and Forge Father Upgrade!
Forge Father Brokkrs
Brokkrs are the metal scrap merchants of Forge Father society. They aggressively excavate an area for whatever materials they can find with the aim of putting them to good use back in the Star Realm – whether that’s raw minerals or concrete foundations. They are protected on their mission by the Forge Guard, though they aren’t bad in combat themselves. Each carries a Hailstorm Pistol to defend themselves with, and their heat hammers are perfect for swatting aside pesky Plague or irritating Asterians.
Asterian Cypher with Fission Beam
Each Cypher is piloted manually from orbit during a mission, although they do have rudimentary artificial intelligence that can take control if the signal is lost for any reason. They are armed with a high-powered flux rifle that explosively destabilizes the target’s molecular structure. Some even carry Fission Beams that fire concentrated streams of blue, crackling energy.
If we hit this goal we will be boost the number of troops available by sculpting and tooling:
- Three uniquely posed Forge Father Brokkrs and add them to the Forge Father Faction Starter!
- One Cypher with Fission Beam and add it into the Asterian Faction Starter, along with two more Cyphers with Flux Rifles.
$590,000 – Nastanza, Twilight Huntress
"It is said that if one was to catch a glimpse of Nastanza they would be hollowed out – joyless, emotionless: forever empty.
A solitary figure, she is neither human nor Asterian, more an agent of something altogether more sinister. She is the silent reaper, stalking across the battlefield cloaked behind her camo shield, taking pleasure in the slaughter. She is the invisible executioner, a precision shot and expert head hunter responsible for the murder of countless soldiers.
She is the Twilight Huntress, and where Nastanza walks, only darkness follows.
If we hit this goal, we will sculpt and tool the Nastanza, Twilight Huntress mercenary figure and include her free in game pledges of Recon ($100+ Early Bird) and up!*
Mercenaries are great characterful figures and powerful additions to your squad.
* Not including scenery only pledges.
OK – a confession!
We made a mistake on Update 38 regarding second shipment shipping after we got some wires crossed and, what we meant to happen got changed to something we didn’t. It was our mistake in the middle of a busy Kickstarter when we were all a bit tired. We are sorry for the confusion it caused!
So forget everything we've said on the second shipment shipping. Here’s the way we’re going to do it… *please read this carefully!*
You only need to add $10 for second shipment shipping if you choose any Asterians or Forge Fathers as your free Faction(s) at Strike Team, Assault Team, or Suppression Team AND you have selected less than $20 worth of add-ons (this applies to all add-ons listed).
That's it, it's that simple.
If you’ve added on the $10 second shipment shipping and you already have $20 or more of add-ons as part of your pledge (Strike, Assault or Suppression Team), then you now have an extra $10 free with which to spend on more miniatures or put towards a shiny scenery bundle!
Reinforcements
The Asterians and Forge Fathers are getting some serious reinforcements with the next couple of stretches and we’ll be adding even more troops and variety to really flesh out the factions.
You can now add on the Asterian and Forge Father Faction Starters to your pledge as part of the wonderful Expanded Universe Faction Bundle, or as individual Faction Starters - grab one now and help us knock over these stretch goals!!
Phew - one heck of an update! That's your roadmap for the next couple of goals after which we've got some more reinforcements, more special characters, solo play and some depraved, sleep-walking degenerates. In hard plastic.
Tell all of your friends - Deadzone is in for a big finish!!
I doubt we're going to hit the end of this list by this time next week. I was hoping for additional pledging levels but I should probably give up on that. Well, we'll see
Really liking Nastanza, hopefully we'll some more cool looking female characters like her before this campaigns over. Also glad they changed the Asterian Cypher fluff from cyborgs/dead Asterians to semi autonomouss AI with uplinked
controllers, I wonder if this means there will be some sort of "buffing" uplink drone added at some point.
All in all great update, also sorry to spam a previous question but isn't there surppost to be a larger Cypher coming in a future update?
I want to drop some cash on this thing. I'm looking at Strike Team as it appears to be the sweet spot in this KS. Also want to add on some mats to get up to 6x4 and maybe some terrain.
Since I don't feel like farming 88 pages or 20k comments, can anyone tell me about the "9 scenery sprues" ?
As in; How many buildings is that, does anyone know how much surface that covers? Will 9 sprues be enough for 2x2, 2x4, etc...
.. minus the L shaped building at the bottom, but + a bunch of scatter terrain from the accessory sprue which isn't included in that pic. Roughly speaking. (back pedants, back I say! *waves firey stick*)
They want to add some more terrain sprues to Strike Team before this is over though, depends on if they get the funding or not. Hopefully we'll see a couple more sprues added so we can make 2x battlezones + 1 accessory sprue total.
@plastictrees: Yes, and yes. Best to front the money during the campaign if possible though, so that it contributes towards the total.
Honestly, the KoW sculpts - botht he quality and the way they're really dragging out showing them off are making me very dubious about this KS, not to mention the Orks that were being rebuilt over the weekend.. week's almost over now.
Seeing the KoW ogres go from "BOGOF" to "16.5% off" also makes me dubious about the end value here as well. I simply don't have the money I had this timelast year top throw at KS, nor do I trust Mantic as much as I did at this time last year after seeing the way they handled scukpts in KoW/DB.
I'm not going to be dropping my Strike Team pledge at this stage - if I do it'll be in the last hours to a few bucks, rather than out completely and won't really impact the KS since it'll be during the final flood. By the same token though, since I'm neither sure about the KS nor a "Mantic Fanatic", I won't be adding anything like the dorfs and elves, etc to my pledge until those last hours (or the post-KSPM) - both for reasons of personal cash available and also that it would be much more dodgy to upgrade to double or triple strike team + potential add-ons, only to drop all of that at the Nth hour...
Earth Dragon wrote: Well, Robotech finally finished. That craptastic looking yet nostalgic game wasn't doing this one any favors. Hopefully retention won't be as much an issue moving forward.
Especially when you compare the Hydrocephalic Orx Marauders and Enforcer Captain Grumpypants to the beautiful mecha designs of Shoji Kawamori... sorry, Deadzone looks like a turd. Didn't stop me from supporting both, and still no reason to attack another KS (why? because it was super successful?)
Yeah, I don't understand this attack. Robotech offered a ton of beautiful looking mecha at a sweet price. Most easily used as, say, Robots in 40k as well - as well as the obvious Battletech uses.
The Ogres in the Kickstarter are $25 for 3 + Buy One, Get One Free - which makes $25 = 6 Ogres. Compared to retail now being $29.99. (before retail discounts)
Worth mentioning since some people keep going on about things like Mantic's Kickstarters offering "70% off RRP". Some stuff might work out just as cheap from retailers, so I'm wanting to watch my purchases very carefully.
The Ogres in the Kickstarter are $25 for 3 + Buy One, Get One Free - which makes $25 = 6 Ogres. Compared to retail now being $29.99. (before retail discounts)
Worth mentioning since some people keep going on about things like Mantic's Kickstarters offering "70% off RRP". Some stuff might work out just as cheap from retailers, so I'm wanting to watch my purchases very carefully.
Nice cherry pick. You don't have to be a douche about it.
The 70% is referring to the pledge packages not the add-ons. You re better then that
I believe the best thing this kickstarter does is helping mantic flesh out or rewrite their background
So far the enforcers have been dislodged from the idiotic "GW space marine" background they had (still waiting to see how well they have been) and Asterians were firmly dislodged from "GW eldar" background, both can be only good things.
mantic must understand that while they share glancing similarities with GW, in the form of a fantasy setting gone science fiction, in their background they should go on their own pure background and avoid any similarities with GWs archaic background.
mantic is in the privileged position of having a clean slate, practically all warpath's background is generated now and in Dreadball, the few snippets that existed before can easily be altered now and have their universe influenced by modern sci fi.
Are those cameras? Will they have some sort of flying base? Rules, maybe?
On a side note, does anyone know just how big is a Teraton? The scale shot on the Rebs picture makes it look HUGE, but on the pictures from dreadball they didnt look that large... never seen any side by side comparasion shots, though...
That makes kinda sense because the scale is all over the place when comparing the in scale concept art in the mercs starter and the ones in the artwork or the dreadball models.
Can't do a proper post for the update so I'll let someone else do it, but the new Marauders are looking pretty fantastic. There's still a bit of humor in them, and they definitely have an ape-ish appearance, but they're pretty spot on. Got excited looking at what they had to offer, which was nice... it's been awhile since they had an update that put a big grin on my face like that.
Faction Focus: The Marauders
Update #52 · May 23, 2013 · comment
In this update we explore the Marauders, showing you all of the sculpts we have so far, including a little Rebs teaser at the end - here we go!
The Marauders, as they became known after the Mandrake Rebellion, are a terror of the shipping lanes, known for attacking cargo haulers and pillaging spaceports. They see a Deadzone as an opportunity too great to pass up, even if they have to fight their way through a fleet blockade to reach one.
Marauder Ripper Suits
The Gorsch Corporation shot to fame when its Heavy Load Exo-Suit was adapted for combat use by Marauder units. With the addition of dense armour plating and support-level weaponry, the Exo-Suits became a common sight on battlefields across the galaxy. Although the Marauders no longer work for the Corporation, there are rumours that Gorsch still provides them with suit upgrades – for a price, of course.
Marauder Sniper
Although Goblins are as much a part of Marauder fleets as any of the other greenskins are, their lack of obvious battlefield potential often goes against then. However, their keen eyes and penchant for stealth leads many of them to become marksmen, carrying long-ranged rifles that let them stay out of harm’s way while sowing chaos in the enemy’s ranks.
Marauder Commandos
Right then – Commandos!
The work in progress Commando sculpts that found their way onto the interwebs simply did not match up to the bar set by the Enforcers, Rebs and Plague. With your feedback in mind, we’ve gone over the figures, tweaking the models and photographing them properly for you to see.
We want to know what you think of the improvements before we approve the figures so please do leave your feedback in the comments!!
The Orx were not always mercenaries and brigands. For a good time their considerable martial skill was put to good use by the Corporation; they were equipped and trained to act as shock troops by decree of the Council itself. Within the regime the Corporation secretly introduced the Green Watch Enhancement Programme, training the biggest of the Orx as elite Commandos. This need breed of soldier was faster, stronger and more intelligent than regular Grunts, trained in the art of subterfuge and sabotage.
Even after the rebellion the brutal elitist regime still exists within Marauder Society, the Dreadnaught-Class starship Supremacy, stolen in a legendary raid by General Gruik’s “Lucky Fives,” housing the Green Watch Training Academy. It is here where the Commandos learn their trade.
The Commandos are bigger, elite troops rather than regular Grunts and have been sculpted with the design of the Marauder Warlord and DreadBall Marauder Guard in mind.
Marauder Mawbeast Bombers
Mawbeasts are a common sight in Marauder camps. Bred to be intimidating and obedient and enhanced with mechanical “upgrades”, they are used primary as guard-dogs, but occasionally they find a place on the battlefield. In fact, it’s a surprisingly common occurrence for an enterprising Goblin to strap a Mawbeast with explosives and drive it towards the enemy. If the teeth don’t get ‘em, they say, the big bang will.
AND FINALLY
The Marauders aren’t the only sculpts we have to show you today… just check this beauty out:
Yes looking quite better and tapped to a nice old vibe in them, I still do not like the right one I would rather have a 1 rifle version of him, still a good salvage.
Well crap, now I want the Strike Team so I can get at dem orx.
Funny how just lowering the double-gun arms and a few other minor tweaks takes them from looking like GW cartoons to the badass marauders from Warpath proper.
I feel a lot better about the Strike Team level pledge now!
Though I admit, I'm still confused on whether or not I have to pay additional shipping for the "Expanded Universe" $50 bundle that includes Forge Fathers and Asterians.
Rippers are 'ok' as models but do not match the scale or proportions of the original concept art. Poses still need work, and the 'guns aiming' pose promised by concept art with actual sketches describing poses never materialized.
Goblin sniper = Great. Amazing what a nice simple model with a simple pose produces.
All 3 of the mauraders are trash, and not at all changed, so all the "we are fixing them and resculpting them" were boldface lies just like they did before. They have not changed at all from the greens seen before and the poses are terrible and not at all realistic. (like the knobby knee enforcers before they became 3D and had their legs fixed)Also: proportion issues from their concept art and previous orx lines.
Mawbeasts are silly fun... neither good or bad, just are.
Now I am afraid to buy A bunch of rippers as add-ons because I might get some BoGo or buy them for 10$ only to find out at retail they are less than that. So I will probably wait for retail for ripper suits and if I pay a few dollars more, so be it but better than paying extra for the honor of Kickstarting.
Welp, they closed the book on possibly getting a Maurauder force. The Orx are too terrible and throw away to make the package worth getting for the goblins and rippers.
Edit: LOL, inconsistent sculpting and design is now a 'feature'. If they can't get artists to follow a single vision, then just say so.
The Commandos are bigger, elite troops rather than regular Grunts and have been sculpted with the design of the Marauder Warlord and DreadBall Marauder Guard in mind.
How terrible. So apparently Orx in the mantic universe, when they grow into leadership, have hands which become twice the size of their head and lose the ability to stand or walk normally while regular Orx have regular reasonable 28mm proportions.
I agree. The Female commander has a "Reaper" look, and I mean that in a good way. I've got some of the Reaper Chronoscope Bones figures on the way and I think that at least 4 or 5 of them will fit in nicely with my rebels.
I feel a lot better about the Strike Team level pledge now!
Though I admit, I'm still confused on whether or not I have to pay additional shipping for the "Expanded Universe" $50 bundle that includes Forge Fathers and Asterians.
I'm thinking that I don't...
No, you don't. If you add-on any add-ons over $20, there's no extra postage.
we are fixing them and resculpting them" were boldface lies just like they did before
they never said they'd resculpt them - they said they'd tweak them and they have, the poses look much better.
They said if people still hated them, then they'd redo them. Looks to me like the pledge total is going up and the comments show almost unanimous support of the repose.
They are also more in line with the warlord by Remy than the crappy hard plastic ones which are just fantasy orx with badly sculpted rush components.
And actually, they said they'd fix the judwan and if you look at the production models they did.
I like the reposes. I'd like it more if they redid the faces so they weren't all smiling...I like the ripper suits but again, the heads look like they are smiling. They should tweak to make them snarl, not smile. But otherwise the major issue (the attrocious poses) have been rectified. Still not excited about them but they aren't a zero value anymore.
Well, they're hosted on Mantic's site and that's blocked for me at work. That means I had to look at them on my phone, which makes the pictures quite small. Clearly, this is all an elaborate ploy to prevent me from seeing the flaws in the new sculpts.
@Alpharius
The commando holding his gun upright has a different head. The other 2 have had their arms repositioned. An improvement, but still could have gone alot further.
@Alpharius They're subtle
The arms have been scaled down and reposed, and at least one (maybe two) of the heads have been replaced. That's what it looks like to my eye, at least.
Anyone have the Photoshop etc. skills to show the old and new, side by side, or as close as possible to side to side?
Automatically Appended Next Post: They have improved them quite a bit but I'm still not too keen on them. And I usually like orcs/orks/orxs of all types. Something about their headgear ...
@Alpharius
The commando holding his gun upright has a different head. The other 2 have had their arms repositioned. An improvement, but still could have gone alot further.
@Alpharius They're subtle
The arms have been scaled down and reposed, and at least one (maybe two) of the heads have been replaced. That's what it looks like to my eye, at least.
Anyone have the Photoshop etc. skills to show the old and new, side by side, or as close as possible to side to side?
Thanks!
The flaws were in the legs of the running one. Which was not fixed. Which means right now 50% of the models are trash because they only appear to have 2 torsos. Repositioned the arms... it is a multipart kit, the arms still look pretty bad as the 'Hay, here are my gunz' pose is bad, and the awkwardly holding my gun in a non-shooting position doesn't do the other model any favors.
There is no significant difference in the changes, this is the same BS from before where they say 'we fixed it', and they didn't and the models are not as good as they should have been. I don't know why they couldn't simply match the concept art in style, scale and pose as these do none of that.
This further shows their models will not be faithful representations of the concept art, and that they have zero intention of resculpting when they show us flawed models. Mantic should just be upfront and say 'we are not going to change a thing.'
Oh, And nice flash on the mawbeast... Close to a week, multiple emails to multiple sources, no response over my Dreadball models being unacceptable. Too busy taking people's money in a KS to attend to the needs of previous backers. Of course the water carriers say 'Not mantics fault, they are all busy and their website doesn't work' as if that is ok and excuses customer service. Apparently there must be a new secret hoop I need to jump through to get my needs addressed. Well I am going out of town this weekend, maybe next week I will begin calling internationally to try to get some action.
The shotgun dude is unchanged (but fine anyway); the other two have vastly improved. I'd much prefer the twin-gun model to lose the left-hand gun but doing this myself is a lot easier than it would be for someone to sculpt on a second distinctive gun so I'm fine with it as it seems many rather like that model as well.
I like Mantic. A lot. They've made some stuff I've really liked. I've tried to not be too negative on the KS comments section, but I need to vent. I think they just didn't try hard enough to fix the commandos.
It really irritates me because they had all the input they needed to do them right.
The running commando could have had is left arm brought further forward and his right arm moved further back.
The 2 gun commando just needed 2 new arms.
They changed the heads, but they are almost indistinguishable from GW Orks.
They look better, but I just feel like they barely tried.
Both seem to be improvements. Would love some better pictures though.
nkelsch wrote:
The flaws were in the legs of the running one. Which was not fixed. Which means right now 50% of the models are trash because they only appear to have 2 torsos. Repositioned the arms... it is a multipart kit, the arms still look pretty bad as the 'Hay, here are my gunz' pose is bad, and the awkwardly holding my gun in a non-shooting position doesn't do the other model any favors.
There is no significant difference in the changes, this is the same BS from before where they say 'we fixed it', and they didn't and the models are not as good as they should have been. I don't know why they couldn't simply match the concept art in style, scale and pose as these do none of that.
Legs weren't really ever the problem. Arm position and comedy elements were. Some of the arm position is down to casting limitations I am sure, but they really could have done better to match the concept art. Updated sculpt is much changed and much better from what I can tell.
Still wish they had gone for serious and deadly rather than comedic and brutal.
~Eric
Edit:
Also, since they said these are resin castings in the new update, I guess that means they are satisfied and running with them. Not sure why they would take the trouble to mold and cast them otherwise.
Not sure why they would take the trouble to mold and cast them otherwise
Assuming that he modified resin castings, and not the original greens, It would hide the exact nature of the changes so that critics wouldn't harp on them as much. Also, the detailing stands out in a more flattering manner on the grey resin than it does on the greens.
The legs were very scrawny in relationship to the arms in the earlier sculpts, but they seem to have towned down the arms enough that the models don't look quite as unbalanced any more. They're not human proportioned but, well, they're not humans.
The biggest problem left that I can see (and this is going to be true for most of the factions I suspect) is that the models are so characterful that it'll look really off if you have multiples. A more generic sculpt can be made to look unique with just a little repositioning (think Space Marines.) Commando Sergeant Double-Guns is going to look like Commando Sergeant Double-Guns unless you do some serious conversion. It's probably not a huge problem if you're playing Deadzone, but I could see it getting repetitive for Warpath (or possibly even for large DZ games.)
Also, since they said these are resin castings in the new update, I guess that means they are satisfied and running with them. Not sure why they would take the trouble to mold and cast them otherwise.
Because resin casting is fast, cheap and easy way to prototype things, does not commit the original sculpt and can be a good basic point for improvements.
I think the resculpt will have forced them to make (most of) the arms separate, yeah. Could be a decently modular bunch as long as you don't need more than 5-6 total after all.
The runner would look much better with the 2-handed shotgun. When running with a firewarm, I would expect him to secure it to his body and point it 'away' from things opposed to running with a 2-handed gun one-handed while pointing it at things.
If the arms are swappable, that may allow people to 'fix' a lot of the pose issues themselves. KoW scale orcs in those new sculpts are much better and more consistant, unless Mantic has decided to go hero scale for all sci-fi games.
scarletsquig wrote: I blame Bob for spending his DZ pledge wedge on nipple tassles and fursuits.
No, I spent some on Robotech (because I was confident their sculpts would turn out decently), some on the two new good-plastic KSs, and what remained of my DZ pledge is now earmarked for KOW. The most I would use DZ for is to try to kitbash heavy cruisers out og the terrain bits.
Besides, I already have more than enough of that other stuff.
I think I agree with hulksmash's assessment the most; I'm not in love with the tweaked models, but they're not a zero value anymore either. The adjusted angle on the enforcer captain picture for the stater set makes him look much less derpy (less being a key word), though again I'm still not enthused about it. They've not moved me towards pledging, but they're no longer moving me away so I suppose that's a success of a sort for Mantic.
Really the hang-up at the moment is knowing it's this or WarPath; I'm not going to be putting a ton of money into one of those campaigns. My inclination at the moment is to go big with DeadZone, because I have 40k for the more pitched-battle setup and I really don't have a skirmish game. Suppose I'll wait to see what the WarPath rules for the models are and try to decide from there.
Krinsath wrote: I think I agree with hulksmash's assessment the most; I'm not in love with the tweaked models, but they're not a zero value anymore either.
Agreed. It's sort of. "I don't really like the models but I accept that the money it costs to make me really like them is not a good use of funds. Plus, I'm sure other people really will like them more."
However, the Rebel Commander is looking great. The Rebs are definitely going to be my main faction. I'm thinking they'll be my 'double up' starter. Either them or Asterians depending on if they sort out the whole postage thing.
^ They have sorted out the postage thing, it was in the last update:
You only need to add $10 for second shipment shipping if you choose any Asterians or Forge Fathers as your free Faction(s) at Strike Team, Assault Team, or Suppression Team AND you have selected less than $20 worth of add-ons (this applies to all add-ons listed).
So basically, $20 of add-ons of any type unlocks Forgefathers/Asterians with no extra shipping.
An update from the (now finished) Secret Weapon Kickstarter relevant to this one, since it shows the board which is still available to buy as an add-on to the Deadzone Kickstarter for $60:
Mantic Games asked us to update the Deadzone Display Board to reflect a true 3" grid -- and so we have!
I already got one of these from the SWKS, really looking forward to having an all-plastic board and terrain to use.
I'm a Deadzone backer and really looking forward to this game. I haven't posted here or on the Kickstarter page much but I've been trying to follow the Comments whenever possible. I apologize if this question has been asked and answered repeatedly but:
Has Mantic announced whether the Asterians, Plague, and Rebs will be getting Warpath rules to accompany their Deadzone release?
I asked because the answer will determine A) What I choose for my extra faction and B) How much of Add On money will go towards terrain and how much towards miniatures.
The rules are simple but nice, a good thing, activation is written a bit oddly, but works well, grenades need rework, "can't scatter to a higher level" what if I drop it from above? overall seem quite powerful and dominating equipment.
An update from the (now finished) Secret Weapon Kickstarter relevant to this one, since it shows the board which is still available to buy as an add-on to the Deadzone Kickstarter for $60:
Mantic Games asked us to update the Deadzone Display Board to reflect a true 3" grid -- and so we have!
I already got one of these from the SWKS, really looking forward to having an all-plastic board and terrain to use.
Had they shown that during their kickstarter I may have pledged for one.
PsychoticStorm wrote: That makes kinda sense because the scale is all over the place when comparing the in scale concept art in the mercs starter and the ones in the artwork or the dreadball models.
With scale, it's important to bear in mind that not all Humans/Cats/Dogs/Bears/Hares etc etc are the exact same height. [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism]Sexual dimorphism[/url] is also very common in living things. Some variation is normal and really should be welcomed.
The reposed Orx just don't do it for me. The poses still feel very forced and the proportions and faces/heads of the models seem bizarre, even from the company that brought us knock kneed Ogres (which admittedly I like).
PsychoticStorm wrote: That makes kinda sense because the scale is all over the place when comparing the in scale concept art in the mercs starter and the ones in the artwork or the dreadball models.
With scale, it's important to bear in mind that not all Humans/Cats/Dogs/Bears/Hares etc etc are the exact same height. [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism]Sexual dimorphism[/url] is also very common in living things. Some variation is normal and really should be welcomed.
All 3 of the mauraders are trash, and not at all changed, so all the "we are fixing them and resculpting them" were boldface lies just like they did before. They have not changed at all from the greens seen before and the poses are terrible and not at all realistic.
Stewart wrote:
The Deadzone Orcs are not final, and the photography does not show them in a good light. They are actually very nice figures in terms of detail, and I am having the poses rebuilt over this weekend. Once you see the finished models I’m sure you’ll change your mind.
Resculpts were always on the table as a second option if the rebuilds (poses) still had a negative reaction, so I assume that it's still an option if they get enough negative feedback.
I don't love the ripper ruits, but I no longer hate them. Mawbeasts still look stupid. I never saw the original goblin in any detail, but the new one looks fine. On the orcs themselves, the middle one is fine, and the other two (left and right) still look "off" to me. I think it's something about the proportions or poses, as the detail and actual sculpting looks nice enough. Dunno, I can't quite put my finger on it.
With scale, it's important to bear in mind that not all Humans/Cats/Dogs/Bears/Hares etc etc are the exact same height. [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism]Sexual dimorphism[/url] is also very common in living things. Some variation is normal and really should be welcomed.
I will point out that ammo pouches and rifles are all the same size though. Many companies screw that all up when they make figures different sizes within a range.
Lansirill wrote: The legs were very scrawny in relationship to the arms in the earlier sculpts, but they seem to have towned down the arms enough that the models don't look quite as unbalanced any more. They're not human proportioned but, well, they're not humans.
The biggest problem left that I can see (and this is going to be true for most of the factions I suspect) is that the models are so characterful that it'll look really off if you have multiples. A more generic sculpt can be made to look unique with just a little repositioning (think Space Marines.) Commando Sergeant Double-Guns is going to look like Commando Sergeant Double-Guns unless you do some serious conversion. It's probably not a huge problem if you're playing Deadzone, but I could see it getting repetitive for Warpath (or possibly even for large DZ games.)
It really depends on if the arms and heads are separate pieces. If they are, I'd swap in some Kromlech or GW heads, and do the same using GW Ork arms of some description. You could argue that you shouldn't need to do arm or headswaps, but then again it's going to be an issue with getting duplicates from almost any range of dynamically-posed, non-uniform models, regardless of game or company...
scarletsquig wrote: ^ They have sorted out the postage thing, it was in the last update:
You only need to add $10 for second shipment shipping if you choose any Asterians or Forge Fathers as your free Faction(s) at Strike Team, Assault Team, or Suppression Team AND you have selected less than $20 worth of add-ons (this applies to all add-ons listed).
So basically, $20 of add-ons of any type unlocks Forgefathers/Asterians with no extra shipping.
It's essentially designed to encourage you to but $20 of add-ons, since you'd pay $10 for shipping anyway, you may as well spend a second $10 and get $20 worth of toys. Smart and reasonable.
I will point out that ammo pouches and rifles are all the same size though. Many companies screw that all up when they make figures different sizes within a range.
If they're the exact same ammo pouches and rifles, then yes. There's variation between weapon families (M4 vs M16, M4 stock extended vs not, The G36 series) and also pouches, depending on weapons (Kar98 vs MP40 pouches). There's also a lot of variation between modern pouches that you'd see on the same loadout.
Actually, amazingly I'm going to say that mantic could justifiably have gone a bit higher and jumped for say, $35 of add-ons for fully free shipping. - WHICH THEY HAVEN'T (so that noone gets confused). Encourage people to go for even more extra toys...
I still hate captain grumpy pants... just because of him, I am considering going double on Rebs rather than enforcers :(
Krinsath wrote: I think I agree with hulksmash's assessment the most; I'm not in love with the tweaked models, but they're not a zero value anymore either. The adjusted angle on the enforcer captain picture for the stater set makes him look much less derpy (less being a key word), though again I'm still not enthused about it. They've not moved me towards pledging, but they're no longer moving me away so I suppose that's a success of a sort for Mantic.
Really the hang-up at the moment is knowing it's this or WarPath; I'm not going to be putting a ton of money into one of those campaigns. My inclination at the moment is to go big with DeadZone, because I have 40k for the more pitched-battle setup and I really don't have a skirmish game. Suppose I'll wait to see what the WarPath rules for the models are and try to decide from there.
JMMelo wrote: I still hate captain grumpy pants... just because of him, I am considering going double on Rebs rather than enforcers :(
I wonder if his head is part of the model or separate? If it's a separate part, that opens up a lot of options. On the same lines, restic is soft enough to easily drill his head out. A lot easier than what we had to do with metal terminators in the old days...
Yonan wrote: The Orx look good now. The mawbeasts bodies look fine, heads look silly though.
Can't say the bodies are doing it for me either. If I stay in and end up with these and manage to start painting them, I'll be removing those stupid chainsaw-tongues from inside their mouths. That will improve them no end. Still won't make them good models, but they'll be a lot better than they are...
I think the more I look at this the more I'm going to be dropping strike for just Scout (for rebs) and then a bunch of terrain. Or maybe just specific models and terrain.
Either way they don't seem to be on board with letting us pick what we want Faction wise so my pledge is going to be lower.
Yonan wrote: The Orx look good now. The mawbeasts bodies look fine, heads look silly though.
Can't say the bodies are doing it for me either. If I stay in and end up with these and manage to start painting them, I'll be removing those stupid chainsaw-tongues from inside their mouths. That will improve them no end. Still won't make them good models, but they'll be a lot better than they are...
Yonan wrote: The Orx look good now. The mawbeasts bodies look fine, heads look silly though.
Can't say the bodies are doing it for me either. If I stay in and end up with these and manage to start painting them, I'll be removing those stupid chainsaw-tongues from inside their mouths. That will improve them no end. Still won't make them good models, but they'll be a lot better than they are...
out of me more so with the terrain than the figures. I really hope they have some renders of the other battlezones before the end of the 
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