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Post by: Commander Cain
Still don't like the Marauders. I can see the improvements that have been made but the ripper suits still don't match the art and the commandos are "alright". Granted I have never liked ork factions anyway, Mantic would have had to pull off something seriously impressive to convince me not to sell them the second they arrive on my doorstep...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I still maintain that a simple choice of factions rather than the fixed ones would be a vast improvement. As it is I am teetering on the edge of dropping out and buying some FW stuff.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Honestly, if you still dislike the Marauders then make sure to tell Mantic. Because a ground-up resculpt is still on the table for them if people still don't like them.
For me, the proportions are a lot better and the poses much improved. Not sure on the faces still but a lot of that is due to it being hard to pick out exact details on them. They probably look fine painted up.
I'm hoping the arms are interchangeable as well since that should help variety.
Overall, I am basically fine with them as is now. Just enough RT/2nd Edition Ork look for me to enjoy them. But they were never my primary faction, so I feel I have less of a dog in that race. If they end up seeing a ground-up re-sculpt then I doubt I'd pitch a fit, but if they stay as is I will still be fine with them. Now that I have my Forge Fathers, I am a happy stubborn fuzzball.
But if you still have misgiving about the Marauders, then don't hesitate to voice 'em either in the comments or via direct email to Mantic. They have said that they are open to the idea and if a bunch of people sit and stew rather than tell them then no one is happy.
As an aside... What the hell do I do with the extra $10? Chovar merc, a couple of specialists or maybe grab that Marauder biggun for an extra $2 on-top. Has Mantic said when FF-related add-ons would go up? My guess is we will probably be waiting until it hits $575k and we have a bit more variety in EU units, but I'm chomping at the bit to add a few more Forge Guard to my pledge. I loves me my stompy power armour units and can always use a few more. 
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Post by: Bossk_Hogg
Did they say if there's going to be a pledge manager to add on after the KS ends? I'm stretched thin now, but wil have more scratch later. And some of the terrain is hard to beat.
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Post by: Barzam
I guess I can throw in my 2 cents on the Marauders. I was fine with them as they were. Their GW-ness didn't bother me. That being said, seeing the old sculpts versus the new, modified ones, the old ones really looked bad. It's amazing what a few tweaks can do to change a figure. I know they mentioned that they based the figures' proportions more on the Marauder Warlord and I can really see it. He didn't seem to have the same shape of head as the standard Grunts. It jutted out more and had a more pronounced underbite. These guys seem to match up quite well with the Warlord. I'd actually like to see a picture of the running guy against the Warlord to see how well the measure up against one another.
Overall, I like how they look now a lot more. The Rippers though.... not so much. I think I'm going to use that money I'd put down for a spare on something else.
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Post by: Azazelx
Just get some Kromlech mecha-armoured Orcs for Rippers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0BYrCIrs4
I assume that just like Kings of War/Warpath, Mantic are going to be fine with people using their or other brands of figures for their games.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Not so certain that will apply here. It all depends how LOS rules pan out. If even the tip of you gun makes it to where I can shoot you, they may want more control on how guys are posed. For that reason, I've refused to play by house rules that let people shoot at hands and feet on models in Necromunda. It's of my opinion, people's sculpts shouldn't be the determining factor on how hard or easy it is for a model to hide behind cover.
So if they are trying to put standards on how much a model sticks out, and ensure models of a certain type have xxxx amount of girth to them, it might get pretty unbalanced once the power gamers show up with the skinniest Sci-Fi orcs they can find, just so they aren't getting shot at as often.
It's partially why I feel the LOS rule needs adjustments made, but maybe they have a sculpting standard for each model, and that's part of their "intangible" stats. If Jake or Ronnie has issued such instruction, I suppose I'm okay with the rule, but that also mean outside models and major adjustments to official ones shouldn't be legal.
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Post by: PEARSCW
I am not so bothered with the LOS rules, I only dissagree with the base being used. Being able to use anypart of the model allows for the abstract of the models are constantly in motion, poking heads around corners etc.
As for people using skinny models. You could always overwatch. You can trigger the overwatch when they begin or end in an "Area of fire" LOS. which means you dont need to see them to shoot them. Well you can blaze away and try get their head(s) down. Also, dont forget a smaller model means if you can get to see it, its easier to see all of it to get that +2 for Clear Shot.
You can always move squares to try and get a LOS on them. You can move 4". Then depending how big the cover is it might have hidden a normal sized model.
I personally think that combat is a little too powerfull. The ability to move into a square and fight for free. Then do it again is a little powerfull. The whole group I play with feels this.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
560k goal passed.
So what are your ideas on the beta rules?
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Post by: Riquende
I much prefer the activation changes, haven't looked too much into what the other differences is. I noticed LoS hasn't changed but to be honest I don't think that's up for debate as no Mantic game thus far has used anything different.
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Post by: Commander Cain
 Ronin_eX wrote:Honestly, if you still dislike the Marauders then make sure to tell Mantic. Because a ground-up resculpt is still on the table for them if people still don't like them.
That's true but like I said, it would take a miracle for me ever to like them. Besides, general consensus is that they are much improved and I have no desire to become that one whiny person goes on about it from now until the end of the campaign. 
That being said however, I will whine and complain about not being able to switch starters for the duration of the Kickstarter...
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
The problem with the Orx fixes is they are good enough to be "acceptable" but still away from what they could have been.
At this point a full resculpt may hurt the kickstarter more than it could help.
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Post by: Talking Banana
I agree with the general consensus that the Orx fixes make the models ok, but still not worth purchasing if you had the choice. The Orx were never going to be my favorite faction either, and if I ran the zoo, they wouldn't be in Deadzone at all. But that's just my taste. I still think the Orx are a drag on the Strike Team ticket, but no longer a catastrophic one.
I am disappointed in Mantic as a company for settling for "good enough". It's clear that the majority of pledgers don't actually like the commandos, they just don't hate them anymore. But there aren't many (there are a few, always a few) people who are excited to be buying them. And Mantic should take that as market research, perhaps not ironclad but not worthless either, and a good indication that the Marauder faction isn't going to do very well at retail. I think Mantic should want to resculpt them not to satisfy "whiny pledgers", but out of standard business practice / greed: they want to make more money. These aren't throw-away units for a niche game, they're planning on using the Marauders as a crucial component of their Warpath armies. Why not invest in the models properly so they'll pay off later? The Kromlech models posted by Azazelx show what's possible - why didn't Mantic aim higher?
As a first time Mantic customer, it's apparent that they're moving towards higher sculpting standards. But it's also apparent that they're still in transition, and that high standards aren't held across the entire line. I have looked over the KOW sculpts coming in, and fantasy is not my thing, but if I were Azazelx I would be disappointed in them too. On balance, Deadzone is looking much better. There are some poor sculpts in the mix - I can't use include the Marauders and Plague 3rd gens - but there are also outstanding ones, and the good outweigh the bad right now by a high enough margin that I'm staying in. I also think that the Asterians and Forge Fathers are looking like good risks. The Asterians will be 3-d sculpted, so we'll get well-proportioned figures in dynamic poses, like the Enforcers. The Forge Fathers will probably be sculpted by hand, but as Mantic's leading line in the Warpath property, I don't think they can afford to have the FF look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll be having Remy do them.
But as people have well articulated here many times already, they need to drop the fixed faction thing. If they do something similar in the Warpath KS, I won't participate. And putting up individual restic figures as high-priced add-ons with only the concept art for customers to go on is nonsensical. If there has to be a gamble involved in terms of what the final sculpt will actually look like, they need to sell those figures at a significant discount to move them.
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Post by: scarletsquig
But as people have well articulated here many times already, they need to drop the fixed faction thing.
This. I'd pay extra for this.
Cain nails it really... no matter what they do with the Orx, some people aren't going to want that faction.
Forgefathers would have been a more natural fit as the fourth faction, they're the most popular Warpath army.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I'm firmly of the opinion after the polite non-responses that the fixed faction thing isn't changing. Shame since I'm likely to drop Strike now as the more I look at it the more the only starter that looks worth painting to me is the Rebs.
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Post by: CptJake
Questions:
If I do express my dislike for the Orx on the KS comments, Will it be seen by anyone that matters or is it swept away?
Is there a better place to express my dislike?
And finally, does anyone know if the shooting sniper replaces the dancing sniper or are we still stuck with the dancer?
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Post by: Zweischneid
Well, don't think they'll switch out the Orx.
If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.
If you want to play Deadzone with Orx, you'll have a gazillion alternatives out there (straight GW Orks, Kromlech, etc..).
If Mantic wants to "kickstart" their own sci-fi green-skins - bumps along the road and all - they'll need to place them strategically "smart" into the pledge-structure.
Unlike DreadBall, Deadzone may potentially (!) be facing some severe "reverse-counts-as" risk from people that just grab the awsome "no-measuring-tape, "true-line-of-site", rule-set from Jake, but simply plug-in their dust-gathering collection of GW Space Marines, some Kromlech Orks, Necromunda-minis-as-Rebs, new-Wraithguard as Cyphers, etc.., at least until they know whether they truly dig the game or not.
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Post by: recruittons
 Hulksmash wrote:Shame since I'm likely to drop Strike now as the more I look at it the more the only starter that looks worth painting to me is the Rebs.
I did this exact thing a while ago. I was Strike, but then the Orx greens came out. I was already not a fan of the Enforcers (they are decent for what they are, but I don't really like the whole armored marine aesthetic) and the plague looked silly except for the 1st Gen. Once the Marauders were shown to be sort of comic relief style instead of brutal monsters, I knew I was going for the Rebs and maybe the odd add-on.
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Post by: recruittons
 CptJake wrote: Zweischneid wrote:
If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.
Not sure why you would say that, I'm thinking Hasslefree Grymm would work great.
Those are brilliant!
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
CptJake wrote:Questions:
If I do express my dislike for the Orx on the KS comments, Will it be seen by anyone that matters or is it swept away?
Is there a better place to express my dislike?
And finally, does anyone know if the shooting sniper replaces the dancing sniper or are we still stuck with the dancer?
main KS comments and the last orx faction focus.
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Post by: JMMelo
 recruittons wrote: CptJake wrote: Zweischneid wrote:
If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.
Not sure why you would say that, I'm thinking Hasslefree Grymm would work great.
Those are brilliant!
Mantic had a colaboration with Hasslefree Minis for a while before Warpath came to be... I for one was hoping they get a license from Kev White and did the Grimm in plastic. I like some stuff from the FF, but the Grimm are the best sci-fi dwarf minis out there, by far
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Post by: RiTides
Can someone copy the old orx (or is it marauders?) and new orx pictures here? People keep referring to how the new is better than the old (but perhaps still needs work), but I don't know where to find that comparison...
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
go to page 89
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
So having never been around for a Mantic KS. How does the post-KS pledge-manager work? More specifically, "when" does that tend to make the rounds?
I'm increasingly thinking I am going to go in with a lesser total for the moment, and bolster my pledge later on.... unless their notion of "later" is actually right after the KS ends, which does me and the finances, little good. :-p
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Post by: Riquende
It's usually a week or two after the end date.
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Post by: Compel
Does the Asterian starter set now come with 2 gun-thingies after that stretch goal?
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Well the later on addition hurts the kickstarter pledgers, since it does not increase the kickstarter pledge so fewer unlocks.
But aside that and it is entirely understandable you may not be able to add stuff now, the pledge manager will come some time after the kickstarter ends usually a few months after when things are tooled and the need to know how many they need to make.
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Post by: Compel
And you usually have a while before you need to send in your survey as well.
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Post by: Alpharius
I'd also say " PM" them directly from within Kickstarter too, using the 'contact me' link on the front page.
Also, the Vermonter is dead nuts on - the Orx represent an ongoing problem for Mantic in terms of future sales as well.
If they looked more like the Dreadball versions, everyone would be a lot happier, and they'd probably sell a lot more - now and later on...
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
That would be a nice issue to either say on the KS page or in directly in the contact us.
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Post by: DaveC
Interesting new post
Creator Mantic Games less than a minute ago
@ JMMelo - the Enforcer Captain has separate cloak and an alternate head with the mask closed
There is also the Warpath Enforcer Captain available too!
Glad the cloak is separate the head I could live with the cloak not so much but different head to!
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Post by: Compel
Mantic needs to advertise those alternative sort of things a helluva lot more.
That's probably going to make a whole load of people REALLY happy.
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Post by: edlowe
Dont know if its been mentioned but the enforcer captain comes with an alternative closed helm and the cape is now seperate 
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Post by: CptJake
The cape being separate is only helpful/useful if there is detail it covers. If instead it is an undetailed blob which really needs the cape glued on to make the figure look complete it is not very useful.
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Post by: edlowe
Being digitally sculpted id guess there will be detail. Il ask in comments
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Post by: Mo'teef
I'll never understand why everyone is so quick to offer up Grimn as sci fi Dwarves. I know that's what Kev meant them to be, but they just look like sci fi short people. Not like Dwarves at all.
I really do like them, and I have several of them, but I use them as humans with dwarfism not Space Dwarves. To me they just aren't fit for their intended purpose.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
At least the option is there for people now!
Plus Mr. Grumpyface can stick to the fluff and keep that mask DOWN.
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Post by: edlowe
Mantic on comments say definitely detail underneath
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Seriously they waited for the last 3rd to reply to the very first criticism they had....
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Post by: judgedoug
 PsychoticStorm wrote:Seriously they waited for the last 3rd to reply to the very first criticism they had....
It was probably only recently changed. It's a digital sculpt and the fig we've scene is probably a resin test cast.
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Post by: CptJake
I am less than sure how "humans with dwarfism" in a sci fi setting are NOT "Space Dwarves".
Additionally, they really do not display the physical characteristics one would expect from 'humans with dwarfism'.
But to each their own, right?
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Post by: scarletsquig
Awesome, really happy to hear about the captain getting enclosed helm and no cloak options.
Mantic listen. And act.
Also, I'm changing the KS link in the OP (and my sig) to a Jamply referral link, hope no-one minds.
Basically, Mantic are giving away resin casts to whoever manages to drive the most traffic to their kickstarter page. I don't expect to win because I don't use facebook all that much, mainly doing it because I'm curious about seeing how many people actually click through to it from dakka. :p
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Post by: Taarnak
DaveC wrote:Interesting new post
Creator Mantic Games less than a minute ago
@ JMMelo - the Enforcer Captain has separate cloak and an alternate head with the mask closed
There is also the Warpath Enforcer Captain available too!
Glad the cloak is separate the head I could live with the cloak not so much but different head to!
Yes! Glad to hear that!
Totally agree that I could have l lived with the head, but definitely not the cloak.
Mo'teef wrote:I'll never understand why everyone is so quick to offer up Grimn as sci fi Dwarves. I know that's what Kev meant them to be, but they just look like sci fi short people. Not like Dwarves at all.
I really do like them, and I have several of them, but I use them as humans with dwarfism not Space Dwarves. To me they just aren't fit for their intended purpose.
They fit just as well as any other "Dwarves in space". Plus they are a helluva lot better sculpted than pretty much all the alternatives.
~Eric
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Post by: Commander Cain
Huzzah for the news about the Enforcer captain! This makes another starter set of those guys much more appealing...
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Post by: Zweischneid
 scarletsquig wrote:
Basically, Mantic are giving away resin casts to whoever manages to drive the most traffic to their kickstarter page. I don't expect to win because I don't use facebook all that much, mainly doing it because I'm curious about seeing how many people actually click through to it from dakka. :p
Hmmm... resin casts. 
Wonder when I'll get mine from the DreadBall Zzor-Team naming contest..... 
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Post by: Deathwolf
Does anyone know roughly how large the Asterian Cyphers are intended to be, i.e. are they roughly as large as Wraithguard?
I'm probably going to pick a couple sets up as an Add O. I intend to use them primarily for Warpath but would like to have the option to use them for 40K also.
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Post by: DaveC
 Deathwolf wrote:Does anyone know roughly how large the Asterian Cyphers are intended to be, i.e. are they roughly as large as Wraithguard?
I'm probably going to pick a couple sets up as an Add O. I intend to use them primarily for Warpath but would like to have the option to use them for 40K also.
This is all I've seen for scale - that's the Dreadball Praetorian (front center) - who is a Cypher
1
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Post by: Pacific
Cool stuff, I'm glad they're giving the helmeted option for the enforcer captain. That being said, I do quite like the 'Creed' style scowling face.
And what is the massive, unpainted thing with the Predator-style wrist blade in that photo?
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Ultimate Dreadball Alpha simian.
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Post by: insaniak
Ronin_eX wrote:For me, the proportions are a lot better and the poses much improved. Not sure on the faces still but a lot of that is due to it being hard to pick out exact details on them. They probably look fine painted up.
The faces really don't work for me. They look like someone was trying to sculpt GW orks without making them look like GW orks... so they just look like bad copies. They won't fit with GW models, and they don't look good as stand-alones.
That and Mantic's trademarked skinny leg, knock-kneed posing kill these for me.
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Post by: JMMelo
Mo'teef wrote:I'll never understand why everyone is so quick to offer up Grimn as sci fi Dwarves. I know that's what Kev meant them to be, but they just look like sci fi short people. Not like Dwarves at all.
I really do like them, and I have several of them, but I use them as humans with dwarfism not Space Dwarves. To me they just aren't fit for their intended purpose.
Quoting CptJake, they really have no characteristics of regular dwarfism. I could accept them as "space hobbits" since they are better proportioned than the usual fantasy/sci fi dwarf, but then again, the problem we have here is the usual representation of dwarfs as "bearded balls with legs, monkey arms and axes". We have GW in part to thank for that one Seriously, ever try to imagine the anatomy of a GW dwarf? Where do the legs even connect?
CptJake wrote:I am less than sure how "humans with dwarfism" in a sci fi setting are NOT "Space Dwarves".
Additionally, they really do not display the physical characteristics one would expect from 'humans with dwarfism'.
But to each their own, right?
 Exactly what I was trying to say... plus the scultps are just excelent, and Mantic already has a working relationship with Kev White...
Taarnak wrote:DaveC wrote:Interesting new post
Creator Mantic Games less than a minute ago
@ JMMelo - the Enforcer Captain has separate cloak and an alternate head with the mask closed
There is also the Warpath Enforcer Captain available too!
Glad the cloak is separate the head I could live with the cloak not so much but different head to!
Yes! Glad to hear that!
Totally agree that I could have l lived with the head, but definitely not the cloak.
Mo'teef wrote:I'll never understand why everyone is so quick to offer up Grimn as sci fi Dwarves. I know that's what Kev meant them to be, but they just look like sci fi short people. Not like Dwarves at all.
I really do like them, and I have several of them, but I use them as humans with dwarfism not Space Dwarves. To me they just aren't fit for their intended purpose.
They fit just as well as any other "Dwarves in space". Plus they are a helluva lot better sculpted than pretty much all the alternatives.
~Eric
I would still prefer a more dinamic captain, but closed helm and no cloak beats Captain Grumpy Pants any day
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Post by: Mo'teef
CptJake wrote:I am less than sure how "humans with dwarfism" in a sci fi setting are NOT "Space Dwarves".
I'm pretty sure you and 99+% of everyone else on Dakka know that "Space Dwarves" refers to the Fantasy trope of Dwarves transplanted into a sci fi setting and has nothing to do with humans who have dwarfism.
CptJake wrote:Additionally, they really do not display the physical characteristics one would expect from 'humans with dwarfism'.
But to each their own, right?
On this point, I asked around and they were the best suggestion I received. If someone offers a better alternative, I'll happily take it.
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Post by: Alpharius
Braaaaaainzzzzzzzzzz Update #56 · May 24, 2013 · 15 comments We’re really stepping things up as we finish off the core game and start going big! Just check out these goals – and make sure you read all the way to the bottom $600,000 – Deadzone Compendium: The Ultimate Gamer’s Guide If we hit this goal, we’ll write, layout and print this kickass soft cover book – the Ultimate Guide to Deadzone!  This mighty tome contains: - The complete Nexus Psi Campaign: all 6 Narrative Scenarios, including the Recon Unit extraction, the hunt for Simmonds and the Trapped DreadBall MVP Missions - plus an additional scenario for every 500 Backers we get (and we’re now less than 100 backers from the next one!) - Detailed Assembly Guides for your miniatures and scenery - Detailed Painting Guides for your miniatures and scenery - Faction Strategy Guides - Hobby Gallery of Scenery and Miniatures - PLUS all rules expansions funded as part of this campaign – we’re aiming for Solo play, “Zombie” Rules and large skirmish games played on multiple boards! If we hit this goal we’ll include a digital copy of this must-have book into every pledge!! Become a Deadzone Veteran! As we enter the final week of the Deadzone Kickstarter we wanted to give you something extra special to say thank you - and the Deadzone Compendium was the answer! The ultimate guide to Deadzone is a fantastic resource but we just couldn’t squeeze a free printed copy into Strike Team. So, we came up with this: If you have made a total pledge of $300 or more, including any add-ons and shipping, you'll become a Deadzone Veteran and will get a FREE printed copy of the Ultimate Gamer’s Guide included with your package. This will be a limited edition Veteran Edition of the book, signed with a personal message of thanks from Ronnie. It will also have an exclusive cover with alternate art, available only to Veteran backers.  Whether you’re in for the scenery or going for the game, there’s something in this book for everyone but if you can't quite stretch to $300 then you can still add-on a physical of the standard book to your pledge:  $610,000 – Insane new Zombie Rules Towering men in shining suits of armour, hulking green monstrosities, the alien with a face full of tentacles… Ana thought she’d seen it all. But the sight of her friend, half of her face missing, clawing herself along the ground; that was too much to take. Paralysed, too scared to even scream, listening to the sounds of the half-dozen Infected tearing flesh from bone in the next room, Ana resigned herself to death. If we hit this goal, we will write and publish rules for adding Plague Zombies to your two player game. The "Zombies" are a brutal new enemy that will attack both forces, even the Plague themselves! We will add a free digital copy of these rules in every pledge as we’ll include them in the Deadzone Compendium! These combatants add an extra dimension and tactical challenge to your games as you’re not only fighting against your opponent, but also the horde baying for blood. Of course, you’ll also be needing some models too… $635,000 – Hard Plastic Plague Zombies In the aftermath of infection, many millions of citizens encounter the nightmare horrors of the Plague. Not all meet the same fate. A handful survive, scratching out a living on the shattered remnants of their world. By far the majority are slaughtered, their minds and bodies succumbing to the infection. The remainder are those who survive the first attacks, often horribly wounded and mentally scarred by the ferocity of the mutants. These regular citizens are infected by the mutating horror of the alien plague. This mutation creates the sadly familiar monsters you see on the battlefield, but these are just its greatest works. Far more common are the rejected mutations that have overwhelmed their host to the point of leaving little but a hollow shell of a twisted animal. Officially these creatures are 3rd Generation Plague mutants. However, to distinguish them from the normal 3rd Gens who retain memories and skills from their former lives and hold a degree of higher cognitive function, these are coded as 3Z. They are bestial and savage creatures, driven by pain and hunger to attack, though lacking the fighting skill of the purer, more successful mutations. Given their appearance it is hardly surprising that most combat troops refer to them as zombies. If we hit this goal, we’ll be able to sculpt and tool a multi-part set of Plague Zombies in Hard Plastic.  Concept art is work in progress. These will be separated at the waist with a ball joint meaning that the torsos and legs will be interchangeable, just like the plastic Kings of War Zombies we're famed for. There will also be a range of heads and weapons allowing you to customise your figures. To say thank you for hitting the goal, we’ll include a free sprue of 5 Plastic Zombies into every pledge of Strike Team ($150 and Early Bird) and up!* * Not including the scenery only pledge Note that the Plague Zombies will ship in the second shipment. Of course, you'll be wanting more and you can now pick up a set of 20 Zombies for $15 in the add-on section:  Spread the word – we think these could be popular
I was already in for more than $300.. And Zombies seem to be popular with the kids these days, so why not? And hard plastic SF Zombies? That ought to generate some pledge money!
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Post by: DaveC
75 cent a zombie can't argue with that and it effectively makes the Plague a full Warpath army already. Yeah I'm well past Veteran level at this stage The total is certainly moving again.
EDIT: Plague Zombies will be digital sculpts and be compatible with the ghouls and current zombies
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Post by: Alpharius
Additional update info:
Following the same fit and function as our Kings of War Plastic Zombies, these Sci-fi Variants are cut at the waist and have a ball joint for extra posability. There will also be a range of heads and weapons for you to model your Plague Zombies with.
Note that even if you’re not interested in Deadzone or the scenery you can still pick up a set of the Plague Zombies on the Kickstarter. All you have to do is pledge $20 (includes $5 for shipping) and we’ll send you a set of 20.
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Post by: Riquende
To be honest the book is somewhat underwhelming... it will contain the campaign, which was already a SG, plus probably some very basic guides. I suppose it will take on more value when the 'rules expansions' get funded, but I'd expect to see it a little later down the line, especially as it still seems the FF/Asterian starters are a bit on the bare side.
Also, not interested in zombies, personally. However, lots of people are so hopefully it proves a popular series of stretches.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Hmm, may add some to use as undead fodder in Warzone scenarios. The price is certainly right. Damn you Mantic!
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Post by: overtyrant
You know I'll take your Z's Riquende!
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Post by: Compel
I'm seriously impressed, although I won't be getting any extra zombies other than the basic 5.
I got the big z-corps box, so I'm not really needing many more, though I could use them as almost squad leaders...
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Post by: scarletsquig
Also, Mantic have confirmed cross-compatibility with their KoW zombie and ghoul frames.
They won't be re-using any parts from them, but they will be compatible, to give lots of extra variety if you want it.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Grymn are much tinier than it looks from the pictures, I bought some on speculation that they would make good Squats...but they are the size of Ratlings. Their autoguns are the size of GW auto pistols.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Generally speaking on the semi off topic dwarfs and space dwarfs in particular, I hate the "GW dwarfs" look and refuse to accept the kneeless beard with gorilla arms as what a dwarf should look like, dwarfs should be correctly proportioned well build humanoids and not a parody.
Mantic does a decent work in depicting them, they could do better though, hasselfree grimms look good, but could be a bit better proportioned.
on the on topic, its a nice strachgoal, the real question is what are they planning ahead of that because it looks like a funding raiser, they probably plan something big.
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Post by: Warboss Gubbinz
So does anyone quite understand how this works? I missed out on Dreadball
Lets say i i pledge 285$ for the terrain package, it says i can pick the sprues, is this essentially after it funds then they will give you the option then?
Same thing with addons, how can i upgrade my pledge to let them know what I want?
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Man... zombies are really starting to get old. :-p
That said, anything for this game, tooled for hard-plastic, that I KNOW will fill a slot in a Warpath list, is a good thing, and makes me happy.
Still... i'll be even happier when we pass this big batch of goals, and get to the teased items like more faction specialists, and heavy weapons/walkers, etc...
Also, less zombie horde mode.... more larger scale Deadzone rules please. :-p
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Post by: Riquende
Maybe. If there are scenarios that require having 5, then I'll keep my free ones for that, but if not then I don't really want them for anything else.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:So does anyone quite understand how this works? I missed out on Dreadball
Lets say i i pledge 285$ for the terrain package, it says i can pick the sprues, is this essentially after it funds then they will give you the option then?
Same thing with addons, how can i upgrade my pledge to let them know what I want?
Don't worry after the kickstarter ends when the survey comes you will get a simple comprehensive survey were you will add the things you wanted.
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Post by: GrimDork
Gah. Already overextended on this thing, and now it looks like I'm gonna have to get some sci-fi zombies on top of it...
Still looking forward to the actual locking-in of solo and multiplayer/larger battles. If we're going to have games on 4x4 tables I wanna know as soon as possible so I can modify my expectations for the terrain I'll be needing.
Seems like the enclosed enforcer captain head and optional cape will make that model a lot more versatile.
While the female reb commander looks amazing, I'm not sure what you could do with 4 of her unless she also gets a different head etc.
Enforcers may have just gained a slight advantage in the continual battle for bonus faction starter slots...
Also, rather stoked about the book.
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Post by: Azazelx
Earth Dragon wrote:
Not so certain that will apply here. It all depends how LOS rules pan out. If even the tip of you gun makes it to where I can shoot you, they may want more control on how guys are posed. For that reason, I've refused to play by house rules that let people shoot at hands and feet on models in Necromunda. It's of my opinion, people's sculpts shouldn't be the determining factor on how hard or easy it is for a model to hide behind cover.
So if they are trying to put standards on how much a model sticks out, and ensure models of a certain type have xxxx amount of girth to them, it might get pretty unbalanced once the power gamers show up with the skinniest Sci-Fi orcs they can find, just so they aren't getting shot at as often.
It's partially why I feel the LOS rule needs adjustments made, but maybe they have a sculpting standard for each model, and that's part of their "intangible" stats. If Jake or Ronnie has issued such instruction, I suppose I'm okay with the rule, but that also mean outside models and major adjustments to official ones shouldn't be legal.
The problem with that is, well, there's obviously no control of that kind over the figures coming out. The Orx were "fine" until the backlash - and one of the normal ones and a ripper suit were both in "I'm a butterfly" poses with their arms akimbo. Additionally, any model with posable arms is going to run afoul of it, not to mention if they're going to allow Warpath models in (which I'm sure they will). Just think of that Forgefather walker dreadnought thing. Fully posable arms. If you raise it's hammer up for an action pose, it's suddenly a difference of about a whole infantry figure in the air. Besides, it's not like they can stop anyone outside of their own tournaments.
 Vermonter wrote:These aren't throw-away units for a niche game, they're planning on using the Marauders as a crucial component of their Warpath armies. Why not invest in the models properly so they'll pay off later? The Kromlech models posted by Azazelx show what's possible - why didn't Mantic aim higher?
As a first time Mantic customer, it's apparent that they're moving towards higher sculpting standards. But it's also apparent that they're still in transition, and that high standards aren't held across the entire line.
And putting up individual restic figures as high-priced add-ons with only the concept art for customers to go on is nonsensical. If there has to be a gamble involved in terms of what the final sculpt will actually look like, they need to sell those figures at a significant discount to move them.
Good post. (and not because you referenced me). There are a couple of key points here though - this is an issue of a number of the KoW sculpts. And not just in terms of going off-concept, like the trolls (or these orks). The arms on the Nuns are simply disproportionate. If you look at the early-sculpts of them, long before the painted ones, you can see that. Yet that let that one through and past the goalkeeper. The result is that we bitch and moan a bit, but we'll be forgotten in a month or two. The end result is that they will have sub-par comedy models on the shelf as their new releases for years to come. Of course the same applies to a number of the KoW sculpts, and will to these Orx. If I stay in, I might paint or use the "free" Orx, because at least one of them has moved from gak to okay, and the others might be usable, but there's no chance in hell I'll buy more (I buy a lot of models, incidently). If I need more "Orx" for my Warpath or DreadZone games, I'll be buying Orks from GW and Orcs from places like Kromlech/Maxmini. Then again, I could just as easily leave them in a box and just paint the better ones instead. - not a great advertisement for Mantic. Especially since it's a "starter" set.
The point on individual "concept art" characters is a good one. I really do like the concept art for the Helfather and a couple of the others. Unfortunately, I'm just not likely to trust Mantic to come up with a figure that matches the art anymore. Why give them money for it now and take the risk? Better to just pick it up at retail for about the same amount of money, if it's a good figure, if we still care enough about it by then.
scarletsquig wrote:But as people have well articulated here many times already, they need to drop the fixed faction thing.
This. I'd pay extra for this.
Cain nails it really... no matter what they do with the Orx, some people aren't going to want that faction.
Forgefathers would have been a more natural fit as the fourth faction, they're the most popular Warpath army.
That's why they're a paid add-on - (which can now be a "free" addition.) I believe the "free faction" thing wasn't part of the initial roadmap, but was instead damage control brought in to stop the backlash over the Orx from derailing the campaign.
Zweischneid wrote:Well, don't think they'll switch out the Orx.
If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.
Unlike DreadBall, Deadzone may potentially (!) be facing some severe "reverse-counts-as" risk from people that just grab the awsome "no-measuring-tape, "true-line-of-site", rule-set from Jake, but simply plug-in their dust-gathering collection of GW Space Marines, some Kromlech Orks, Necromunda-minis-as-Rebs, new-Wraithguard as Cyphers, etc.., at least until they know whether they truly dig the game or not.
Well, not entirely accurate. If you want to play Forgefathers, you've still got the same options as Squat players have had for the past 20(?) years. Grymm, Bob Olley, Heartbreaker/Black Tree, Plastic GW, etc, fantasy dwarfs + sci-fi mod parts, Old GW models, etc, etc. The Mantic ones are the cheapest/easiest at this point, though. (and fit Plastic fantasy dwarfs + sci-fi mod parts!) As you say, there's no shortage of other proxy models that will be usable though. Which makes sense, given the "proxy-for- GW" nature of the ranges and models that Mantic started with.
- fake edit - great pics of the Grymm, CptJake! - they even have females that appear to just fit in without being sexualised!
Good news on the Enforcer captain getting upgraded. And the space zombies are an interesting/good result. I guess their conversion kit is selling well, 40k players are keen for them. With that announcement, I think I also heard Chris Valera orgasm al the way from across the Pacific. 
Automatically Appended Next Post: The book's not bad either. Free/$10 is quite reasonable.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
There is a non-zero chance we may actually break through $575k by the end of the night, that would be most excellent. Here's hoping this is the start of the ramp up phase (though the weekend is still likely to be slow; hopefully we'll at least pick up Nastanza and get a good start toward $600k before Monday).
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Post by: Kalamadea
Zombies are ok, but I'm not blown away by the concept art. Price is decent, but besides the 5 freebies I think I'd rather just get some of the Wargames factory ones:
Or just get some Zombie chickys
either way ya can't beat 30 figs for $20 USD
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Post by: Azazelx
 Kalamadea wrote:Zombies are ok, but I'm not blown away by the concept art. Price is decent, but besides the 5 freebies I think I'd rather just get some of the Wargames factory ones:
Or just get some Zombie chickys
either way ya can't beat 30 figs for $20 USD
I'm just hoping they come out as good as their fantasy ones. Who sculpted those? Bob Naismith? They should get whoever sculpted the originals back in for the sci-fi ones, to keep them looking good and consistent - then I won't be worried by the concept art. I do intend to get a box or two of each of the WGF ones as well, and I've got.. 80 each of the studio Miniatures modern and Nazi ones as well, (plus Zombicide stuff) so some sci-fi themed ones would work well also. I could see getting at least one set of these, and maybe a couple.
edit - removed redundant pic quotes.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I just got home and it already looks like we'll be getting those extra EU figures within the next few minutes (under 300 until they unlock).
So now we've got zombies entering the fray? Hmm...
I could totally picture my family using an adapted ruleset from Zombicide with all the Plague and zombie figures. Drop in whatever for characters and voila, we'll have instant sci fi Zombicide!
Of course Zombicide doesn't really account for cover, varying elevation, or anything really of a tactical nature- but since the kids already know how to play that one, I'm one step closer to getting them to play the games Dad wants!
Yay!
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Post by: GrimDork
And getting them to do what you want, and think its their own idea, isn't that what being Dad is all about?
Dance puppets!
DANCE!
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Post by: greywulf
Sorry to probably bring up something that's been discussed before, but I've been reading and can't find an answer. So is the terrain supposed to be the kind of thing you can take apart and assemble again and again in different forms, like LEGO, or is it just a one time connect it all together then glue it permanently thing?
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ It's designed to be take apart + reassemble, with no glue required.
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Post by: GrimDork
Boom 575k, assuming we will wait for morning for update. Yay for EU factions, almost up to par with the others.
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Post by: greywulf
Hmm... considering jumping in now. Thanks!
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Alright, looks like I'm rolling in laser-tanks and cantankerous space miners now. Hopefully the next update will open up prices for FF and Asterian unit add-ons. I needs me some of those. Wonder if we'll see anything else for the wave 2 factions after this. Some extra specialists and characters are never a bad thing.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I really wouldn't mind seeing them add an Iron Ancestor at discount like they did with the Enforcer and Marauder captains. At least I'm assuming they were at a discount...
And I don't even like the Forge Fathers really! What the hell is wrong with me?
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Post by: GrimDork
Hmm well next is merc. Then we get book--zombie rules--zombies. I agree, zombies should bring in some outside attention, while being a great value at the same time... It would be good to lock in the last update for the EU factions. or maybe they will need two, depends on what kind and how many of it they add in the next one.
After that, I really wanna see either solo or multiplayer, especially with 4x4' support.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You've got the bug Highlord! No escape!
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Post by: jdelrio22
I am thinking of going with the Forge Fathers. Would I be better off picking a different faction?
Anyone know if that helfather will play with the Forge Fathers?
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ He will, in fact he's a merc so should play for any faction unless it specifically mentions otherwise. Helfathers are part of the forgefathers in the Warpath lore, not "chaos dwarfs" specifically.
Really glad that the zombies have got this thing moving into the fast lane.
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Post by: Barzam
highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I could totally picture my family using an adapted ruleset from Zombicide with all the Plague and zombie figures. Drop in whatever for characters and voila, we'll have instant sci fi Zombicide!
Oh, you better believe it. I already dropped the money for the add-on as soon as I got home. I will have my hoard and you will have to deal with it.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I don't even like the Forge Fathers really! What the hell is wrong with me?
What's not to like? I've already got a decent sized force of them. They're good figures.
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Post by: Yonan
scarletsquig wrote:Also, Mantic have confirmed cross-compatibility with their KoW zombie and ghoul frames.
They won't be re-using any parts from them, but they will be compatible, to give lots of extra variety if you want it.
Now i"m happy that I've been too slack to assemble my box of 80 Z Corps marines ; ) Mixing in some of these will make them all even more awesome.
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Post by: GrimDork
Meh not a big fan of dwarfs/ves in any setting personally. I kinda like the forge guard though. Not a huge zombie fan either but its mantic and the price is right. Hard to argue with environmental hazards and extra solo/ scenario fodder!
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Post by: Azazelx
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:I really wouldn't mind seeing them add an Iron Ancestor at discount like they did with the Enforcer and Marauder captains. At least I'm assuming they were at a discount...
And I don't even like the Forge Fathers really! What the hell is wrong with me?
Is this (one of) your first KS? If so, that's part of it - getting carried along with the excitement. It's a psychological thing - kind of like the way people go ape gak when bidding on eBay (sometimes going higher than the BIN auction from the same seller).
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Nah, I've done my fair share of kickstarters- those fat little suits of armor are really growing on me. I'm am however excited because the more goals we hit the sooner we can get to the stuff that's been teased that I'm really after- more big nasties and powered armor/ robots/ mecha of some sort.
Those little stubby tubs of armor plus their thick little tracked inferno cannons looks like they could end up being a fun army to work with. Slow and sturdy, the kind of army I like (which explains all our Trollbloods and Khador man-o-wars).
I like my models to have some girth to them- easier to paint, and the kids gravitate towards those too as they're easier to fiddle with.
I'm probably going to have to hit a kickstarter hiatus pretty soon, and I figured I'd go out with a bang on this one. At least until something REALLY awesome shows up.
besides this one OBVIOUSLY
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Post by: Deathwolf
@ DaveC Thanks! I was looking for a picture like that of the Praetorian but couldn't find one.
That picture does make it look like the Cyphers are about a head taller than normal humans which is about Wraithguard-sized. I used to play an Iyaden Ghost Army back in the day before I sold all of my non-Wolves 40K stuff
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Can anyone explain the logic to me of giving out a free starter in a pledge to make up for the poor sculpts from the Marauders? Wouldn't it be a much better idea to have some really excellent sculpts for the Marauders made and piggyback excitement for that instead of doling out tons of free miniatures to make up for the lack in the ones currently?
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Post by: Yonan
 Fenriswulf wrote:Can anyone explain the logic to me of giving out a free starter in a pledge to make up for the poor sculpts from the Marauders?
Where was that done?
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Post by: Fenriswulf
From Azazelx's post above - Azazelx wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:But as people have well articulated here many times already, they need to drop the fixed faction thing.
This. I'd pay extra for this.
Cain nails it really... no matter what they do with the Orx, some people aren't going to want that faction.
Forgefathers would have been a more natural fit as the fourth faction, they're the most popular Warpath army.
That's why they're a paid add-on - (which can now be a "free" addition.) I believe the "free faction" thing wasn't part of the initial roadmap, but was instead damage control brought in to stop the backlash over the Orx from derailing the campaign.
My wording is inelegant, but the question still remains. Is it not cheaper to just re-sculpt the miniatures rather than having to placate people with additional miniatures?
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Post by: Azazelx
Fenriswulf wrote:Can anyone explain the logic to me of giving out a free starter in a pledge to make up for the poor sculpts from the Marauders? Wouldn't it be a much better idea to have some really excellent sculpts for the Marauders made and piggyback excitement for that instead of doling out tons of free miniatures to make up for the lack in the ones currently?
I imagine that it's related to time constraints. The Orx appeared partway through the KS, and they (appeared to) hurt the momentum, at least from the comments. Getting them reposed and offering extra models gets the campaign moving much faster, as resculpts would take a lot longer to have completed (and then QAed). I agree that a far better long-term solution for Mantic would be to get the stuff sculpted beforehand, and actually QA it properly, but I'm talking about "what is, not what should be".
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ Ronnie was talking about how "lots of people might pick Rebs as their primary faction later on in the campaign" really early on before the pics of the Orx existed... which indicates that the extra faction was the original plan.
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Post by: Azazelx
I think you're reading stuff into it that you want to read into it. I simply understand that comment as people picking "their team" from the starting four/"sweet spot" pledge level. The statement by Ronnie doesn't really say anything at all.
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Post by: Yonan
That said, your belief that the free faction is because of bad Orx sculpts is due to what exactly?
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Post by: Saxon
 Yonan wrote:That said, your belief that the free faction is because of bad Orx sculpts is due to what exactly?
Hit the nail on the head!
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Post by: Pacific
Fenriswulf - not quite sure that was their intention, think you are looking for boogey men in the shadows to be honest? 
Quite like the idea of the new book and will add $10 for that, although already have an absolute pile of Sci-fi zombies from Sedition Wars! One-player zombie survival games and the like definitely sound interesting, and it's quite cool that Mantic are tapping into the whole FPS computer game-type ideas.
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Post by: Azazelx
Yonan wrote:That said, your belief that the free faction is because of bad Orx sculpts is due to what exactly?
Timing and reasonable circumstantial evidence.
The free faction was announced as complaints about the Orx were really getting loud, and came just a day before they announced they would be reposing them. It also came several days after Forgefathers and Asterians were revealed as "Buy 1 for $35, or two for $50" - which is clearly a much better value to buy-in for both factions. Adding in a free starter actually kinda screws the "Buy 1 for $35, or two for $50" as I'm sure a lot of people would have gone in for both at $50, and now can easily choose to grab one for free and not bother with a second for an additional $35.
I believe this is damage control in action - and well done, at that. It instantly negates anyone who has a problem with getting the Orx, because they're now "free". (I'll admit that seeing SS continue to say he'd pay extra to choose a different fourth faction after the freebie was added threw me.) Reposing the Orx, and the new "$20 of add-ons means free Wave 2 shipping" just further work to defuse the Orx situation. I think the free faction, reposing and shipping change were all very smart moves to defuse the Orx issues, and in turn the potential complaints about Forgefather shipping (were there complaints in the KS comments? We didn't seem to have them here).
No proof of course, and all circumstantial, but based on what I think is a reasonable set of circumstances and factors.
If you think otherwise, that's fine.
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Post by: overtyrant
Fenriswulf wrote:Can anyone explain the logic to me of giving out a free starter in a pledge to make up for the poor sculpts from the Marauders? Wouldn't it be a much better idea to have some really excellent sculpts for the Marauders made and piggyback excitement for that instead of doling out tons of free miniatures to make up for the lack in the ones currently?
I believe the new tweaked sculpts are a lot better and its just the vocal minority that still dislike them.
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Post by: Azazelx
Hard to judge really. Speaking for myself, I've gone from strongly disliking them to being much more ambivalent towards them. I still don't like them, but I don't especially dislike them either. People here seem to be much less negatively passionate about them. What's it like on the KS comments?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, I agree that the tweaking makes them much better than they were.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Azazelx, I will have to disagree the announcement came exactly with the update that announced their streachgoal and the buy two for 50.
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Post by: Yonan
Isn't the value of this KS still roughly in line with other Mantic Kickstarters? If it's not substantially above, it stands to reason that this was all as planned. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned expecting both factions to be added as freebies to get this KS in line with "Mantic value."
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Post by: Krinsath
PsychoticStorm wrote:Azazelx, I will have to disagree the announcement came exactly with the update that announced their streachgoal and the buy two for 50.
This is correct as evidenced at: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/deadzone-the-sci-fi-miniatures-board-game/posts/480948
I suspect the truth is somewhere in-between. There was likely some concern with the grumbling about the Orx as well as a question about the model count in comparison to their other KSers, but I don't think that was why they did it; it was more pushing the pendulum in the direction it was already headed. In the grand scheme once tooling is paid for, the models cost a little bit of nothing to make and are added to shipping that was being done anyway so the overall loss on the "free" faction is comparatively minor. As Azaelx said, it's a smart move to warm people up to Mantic's "we want you here" pledge level.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Was it ever confirmed one way or another if that's it faction- wise for this kickstarter?
I know they discussed further deadzone areas (Contagion, Insurrection... I forget what else they mentioned) would have their own sets of rivals to fight it out... Zzor, Corporation, and Veermyn were mentioned as being the stars further down the line.
Are there any other untapped Warpath/ Dreadball races at this point?
Simians, Zees, Judwan, Nameless... have I forgotten anyone? I know we're still waiting on our Judwan medic/ rogue monk model.
I'm still mulling over what I want to do with that extra bonus starter faction. Wondering if we might see a seventh faction before things are all said and done.
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Post by: overtyrant
Pretty much it faction wise. Jake said if he had to put the Zz'or or the Ver'myn in he would feel like he would not be doing them justice.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Plus, they've said they have bigger plans for the Veer-myn and Zzor, which might indicate expansions based around them creating their own deadzones.
Zees are being added at some point.
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Post by: Grot 6
Which of these figures is already available?
Do the current range selections work with this game?
Any of you have any pictures of already painted Mantic sci fi guys already put together and painted up?
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Post by: Cyporiean
Other then a variant of the Enforcer Captain, none.
 Grot 6 wrote:Do the current range selections work with this game?
No, these are meant to be 'elite' units rather then the few grunts that have been released.
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Post by: overtyrant
I'll be surprised if they add the Zees as Jake said they were not really designed with combat in mind. Though I could imaging the Alpha Siemen getting some armour and becoming a line breaker or something. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Cyporiean wrote:
Other then a variant of the Enforcer Captain, none.
Grot 6 wrote:Do the current range selections work with this game?
No, these are meant to be 'elite' units rather then the few grunts that have been released.
Well IMO yes you could as the only real difference between the grunts and elites are how many medals they have on there chest. Also all the new stuff WILL have rules for them in Warpath.
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Post by: Compel
I don't see why you couldn't use the current enforcer models in deadzone.
Aside from the fact they're metal/plastic hybrids with skinny knees, that is!
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Post by: Triszin
so whats the current sweet spot in terms of most band for your buck? I'm talking strike team + addons
at 346$ you get (with strike team) 25 building sprues, and 113 minis so far.
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Post by: Eilif
Triszin wrote:so whats the current sweet spot in terms of most band for your buck? I'm talking strike team + addons
I think it's the Strike Zone plus just the two faction (Forgefathers and Asterians) upgrade. That's 200 bucks for 7 factions, a total of around 80 miniaures, $50 worth of terrain, and all the other supplies necessary to play the game.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Does anyone know if the Dreadzone compendium will include artwork? It mentions a hobby gallery and I would love to see some of those amazing line drawings included.
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Post by: Triszin
 Commander Cain wrote:Does anyone know if the Dreadzone compendium will include artwork? It mentions a hobby gallery and I would love to see some of those amazing line drawings included.
that would be awesome to have like 15 pages dedicated to the artwork behind deadzone.
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Post by: Cyporiean
Triszin wrote: Commander Cain wrote:Does anyone know if the Dreadzone compendium will include artwork? It mentions a hobby gallery and I would love to see some of those amazing line drawings included.
that would be awesome to have like 15 pages dedicated to the artwork behind deadzone.
How about a blog?
http://artofhf.wordpress.com/
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Post by: standanko
Another question on add-ons, since this is the first time I've participated on a kick-starter.
If I'm pledging Strike Team and want to add on $20.00 of stuff for the free shipping of a FF kit, do I pledge $170.00 out of the gate or add them on at a later date?
Thanks
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Post by: Compel
You select the 'Strike Team' radial button for the reward you want. Then on the textbox at the top, you put in $170
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Post by: standanko
 Compel wrote:You select the 'Strike Team' radial button for the reward you want. Then on the textbox at the top, you put in $170
D.d.d.dang you're fast. Thanks!
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Post by: Lansirill
There is a sweet spot for miniatures (Strike plus EU) but there isn't much of one for terrain. More sprues gives a bit of a discount but nothing huge.
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Post by: deleted20250424
I think I'm going to go;
Strike
5 Mats
4 Battlezones - 1 Core, 1 Fort, 2 Damaged
Dual Scenery Pack - Military and Warehouse
That should put me at $400.
For the extra starter, you can pick any of them right? Don't think I'm too interested in the Forge/Ast guys at this point.
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ Yep, you can.
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Post by: Saxon
I'm thinking of the Asterians or Enforcers as my free one... Think the duplicate models won't stand out as much, as for the most part the faces are covered and they have a very homogeneous look - if that makes sense.
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Post by: Pacific
Couple of interesting things from that
- the zombies being a kind of '3rd party' AI element that attack both players during the game.
- a plastic release, rather than resin.
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Post by: GrimDork
Loving how much zombies seem to be driving the total up. And any extra game modes are gravy.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Well Nastanza is in at this point.
Can't make up my mind which will be the most obnoxious faction to get the extra one of.
Plague seem the natural choice to swarm the field, but since there's going to be more fleshing out the EU groups those could be a treat as well. Fielding multiple shield generators and swarms of robots with a single Asterian could be a recipe for annoyance. Only time will tell for what is still to come.
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Post by: Alpharius
 GrimDork wrote:Loving how much zombies seem to be driving the total up. And any extra game modes are gravy.
I agree!
And until the kids stop buying zombies, expect to see... lots of zombies!
At the risk of summoning an irate dragon of the earth, look at this:
Zombies, helping bring us the good stuff!
Yes, they are:
More Stretches Smashed - can we get a third today?
Update #58 · May 25, 2013 · 7 comments
Well well, would you look at that? That’s twice in a day ladies and gentlemen, and we’re well on our way to the third…
Just how many stretch goals can we break?!
Nastanza, the Twilight Huntress, has now been added to game-only pledges of Recon ($100 and Early Birds) and up! She is now available to add-on to your pledge for $8.
Next up:
$600,000 – Deadzone Compendium: The Ultimate Gamer’s Guide
If we hit this goal, we’ll write, layout and print this kickass soft cover book – the Ultimate Guide to Deadzone!
This mighty tome contains:
- The complete Nexus Psi Campaign: all 6 Narrative Scenarios, including the Recon Unit extraction, the hunt for Simmonds and the Trapped DreadBall MVP Missions - plus an additional scenario for every 500 Backers we get (and we’re now less than 40 backers from the next one - please spread the word!!)
- Detailed Assembly Guides for your miniatures and scenery
- Detailed Painting Guides for your miniatures and scenery
- Faction Strategy Guides
- Hobby Gallery of Scenery and Miniatures
- PLUS all rules expansions funded as part of this campaign – we’re aiming for Solo play, “Zombie” Rules and large skirmish games played on multiple boards!
If we hit this goal we’ll include a digital copy of this must-have book into every pledge!!
And then of course, there’s the Zombies…
Don’t think we won’t be returning to the core faction though, we’ve still plenty to add to them…
Dare we dream that we might just get the Compendium tonight? Let's find out!
With only $8K to go - they just might...
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Post by: greenskin lynn
well, bumped my pledge to include 3 mats, extra terrain, and some mercs, and that'll probably be it unless they release something just unskippable
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Post by: tyrant of loserville
I want to see that mystery pile of leaves before I pledge my $500+.
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Post by: scarletsquig
It's a plague-infected space haemorrhoid.
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Post by: Yonan
Pass the eye bleach when you're done with it please ; p
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Post by: Vain
My bet is that the leaves are some kind of vermin, like plague rats, that like to tear and rip, like darn little rippers they are.
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Post by: edlowe
Hopefully its a case of come for the zombies stay for the game!
The zombies have really given this ks a kick up the arse, hopefully the increase in pledges and backers will continue for the next few days
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Post by: Pox Apostle
So I've got a question for anyone in the know about this, will the deluxe gaming mats be available for retail after the kickstarter, or are they kickstarter exclusives? I'm trying to decide on saving some cash on mats and extra terrain if they will be available later, else my pledge is going to go from under $500 to close to $600 and I'm not sure I can toss that much into this right now.
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm pretty sure they'll be available later - no idea on what the post-Kickstarter price will be though.
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Post by: Talking Banana
I'm thinking the leaf pile could well be a plagued Nameless unit.
Not to fan the fire, but I also remember being on the KS comments thread earlier in the campaign when one person asked Mantic if they'd be doing BOGOF for the two new factions, as they did with the Dreadball teams. Mantic's reply was that they couldn't do that this time. It was very clear from the way it was phrased that they meant that in the negative, not neutral, and definitely not, oh no, it'll be BETTER this time!
Well, now they're giving away one faction for free (if you pick FF or Asterians), and selling the other one at the standard $35 price. That is better than BOGOF.
Also, they revised their shipping terms twice. As long as you pay at least $20 in extras, you don't pay the additional $10 for your "free faction". In effect, the "free faction" is now more free than it was.
I think Azazelx is correct - this was damage control. And it came at a good time. Things were getting tense on the comments thread with people getting wound up about the Orx, there were a lot of non-discounted add-on stretch goal figures, and I think people were starting to feel less assured they were getting the traditional Mantic 'good deal'. I remember how some people took the "moral high ground" and started trying to shut down anyone "whining", insinuating people were being greedy for wanting more stuff. I found that absolutely ridiculous. I said then, and will say again, if you want to take the moral high ground, take your pledge money and donate it to a worthy charity. Otherwise, if you're pledging in this KS campaign, you're buying toys for yourself, not setting a moral example. Don't throw stones in glass houses and all that. This is capitalism, and customers want more for their money. There's nothing wrong with that, it's how the whole system works. Some of these moralists got so turned around that when Mantic said they were doing the FF and Asterians for $50, they thanked them for "not giving away too much", or something very close to that.
Yes Mantic, give us less and charge us more, please! Otherwise we're like whiny children asking for candy, and we'll never learn to go out and earn it ourselves. (A poster actually put up a German saying stating exactly this.) I'm sorry, I'm really enjoying the KS and liking Mantic right now, but I'm a customer. You will never catch me arguing that I should receive less for my money, and I can't take such arguments seriously. What the moralists missed completely was that the "whiners" were beside the point anyway. It's nice that free stuff keeps the troops happy, but they're already there. You add more free stuff so that all those people on the fence who DON'T think the KS is worthwhile will be compelled to join. You can try throwing moralistic arguments at the holdouts and tell them they should join now because they're wrong, the deal is already good enough for any right-thinking, hardworking, patriotic person. Good luck with that sales pitch.
At any rate, if the truly free Asterian / FF faction starter was 'damage control', then the Orx fiasco actually accomplished something good. (Well, besides the tweaks which improved the Orx models.) Power to the "whiners".
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Post by: Pox Apostle
Thanks for the answer. I had a feeling they would be available as the only thing labeled an exclusive right now is the Survivor model. It would also be good business on Mantic's part to sell them later on for those who want to expand. One of the things I might look at is maybe just getting one extra mat. I have a feeling that it would be easy to play slightly larger two player scenarios of my own devising on a 2x4 table. Just looking at the 4x4 table i played a game of 40K on today I realize it would be huge for Deadzone, definitely something more akin to team games, and I'm not sure how many times I'd be playing like that.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
My assumption is that it is some sort of homage to the Horta, from the classic Trek episode Devil in the Dark ;
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Post by: Talking Banana
Ah - forgot to tell you guys a tidbit of news we got out of the Mantic HQ guy on the comments thread today.
Somehow we all got to talking about Blaine, the convict MVP from Dreadball, and how we'd like to see him in the game. (I actually thought a Penal suicide squad would be fun, but that didn't seem to go anywhere.)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game/posts?page=6
I said to Mantic, "you could even use the same concept art."
And Mantic replied - after commenting that indeed, Blaine would fit well in the Deadzone setting - that Blaine was so badass, they got new concept art for him anyway.
I take that to mean chances are excellent we'll be seeing some version of this guy as a stretch goal.
I can understand where people who don't like homage figures are coming from, but in this case I can't agree. I'm really hoping that we'll see this figure and break that goal before the KS concludes.
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Post by: Cyporiean
I'll confirm that Blaine is coming.
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Post by: scarletsquig
 edlowe wrote:Hopefully its a case of come for the zombies stay for the game!
The zombies have really given this ks a kick up the arse, hopefully the increase in pledges and backers will continue for the next few days
Wait until you see what the multipart hard plastic enforcers do. >_>
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
That Blaine guy looks pretty cool.
I'm assuming he's from a new race we haven't heard about yet?
What else do you guys know of that you're keeping mum on?
Mechs perchance?
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Post by: Talking Banana
Mechs?
Glad you asked. We haven't had confirmation, but the Mantic guy was being pretty obviously coy when asked about the chance of the Dreadball Mech getting kitted out military-style and appearing as a stretch goal.
It was about as obvious as a humorous "I couldn't possibly comment" style comment can be, so take it as you will.
Scarletsquig, where are you getting this plastic multi-part Enforcer kit stuff? You've been very confident about it right from the beginning. Where does this intel come from?
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ Ronnie himself, he's talked at length about a full unit of hard plastic enforcers wearing the same heavy armour as the Enforcer Captain, multipart, with loads of different weapon options, reserved for the event that the kickstarter total gets really high.
The plague zombies were another endgame kit, but it seems that they've brought them forward a bit to drum up some interest going into the final week.
If one hard plastic kit can drum up that much interest, I'm looking forward to seeing what 20-50 hard plastic kits can do when the Warpath KS rolls out.
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Post by: Azazelx
It'll depend on what they look like, obviously - and what they are. Zombies have a very special place in our current pop culture, especially with the geek subsets that we're a part of. I'm sure Enforcers would also do quite well.
On the other hand, the Basilean Men-At-Arms aren't exactly setting the world aflame.
PsychoticStorm wrote:Azazelx, I will have to disagree the announcement came exactly with the update that announced their streachgoal and the buy two for 50.
I've just had another look through the many updates, and you are indeed correct. 15th May. Regardless, I still hold my opinion on why the free faction was announced as (to me) it fits the way this KS has gone. Not that it especially matters at this stage, but the outcomes (Orks can now be considered non-optional, but "free" - so not worth stressing about) are the same either way.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Was it ever confirmed one way or another if that's it faction- wise for this kickstarter?
I'm still mulling over what I want to do with that extra bonus starter faction. Wondering if we might see a seventh faction before things are all said and done.
I imagine that there are contingencies ready if the KS were to go absolutely ape gak, including extra faction(s). There was no way to predict if it would hit, say $2m. They would be long-term goals though. If the fulfilment dates for Forgefathers and Asterians are a year away (2nd Quarter 2014) then factions beyond those would be a hell of a long way away.
I don't think it will, however. The timing of this KS coinciding with the end of pledges for the KoW KS has undoubtedly cannibalised a good amount of pledge money, and that's without getting into people's individual issues with the KoW models. To explain - If you have an (extra?) $100 or so to spend, do you buy that heavily-discounted KoW ogre army, or double down on DZ Factions and terrain? If you want both badly, you'll buy the ogres since the end date is now and Pledge Manager the DZ extras later - which takes away from the potential DZ KS total.
Cyporiean wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:Do the current range selections work with this game?
No, these are meant to be 'elite' units rather then the few grunts that have been released.
Of course, you can freely proxy anything else in that fits. Mantic models or otherwise.
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Post by: Barzam
I hadn't seen that Blaine guy before. He's certainly interesting. I can definitely see some influence from the Kel-Dor from Star Wars. This guy actually looks cool though. So, is he the Riddick to Dead Zone's Pitch Black?
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Post by: scarletsquig
Okay, this is a rather cool screengrab from this KS:
Onwards, to zombies!
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I had noticed that comment about the Dreadball mech, and then promptly forgot about it for some bizarre reason.
Good to see we've already cleared the 600k for the compendium. We may even get the zombie rules before the weekend is over!
In honor of such a momentous occasion I will purchase my first ever set of Warpath figures tomorrow. I'm thinking I'll get some Forge Father storm guards or whatever they're called with the leader dude.
Or an Iron Ancestor.
Or some Kings of War orcs.
Some day I may even get the gumption to post some pictures of the terrible paint jobs I splatter all over these figures!
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Post by: Azazelx
 Barzam wrote:I hadn't seen that Blaine guy before. He's certainly interesting. I can definitely see some influence from the Kel-Dor from Star Wars. This guy actually looks cool though. So, is he the Riddick to Dead Zone's Pitch Black?
He looks a bit like Predator goes Bane, really. Still, a good fit as a merc for a game like this.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Some hints of future stretch goals in the comments:
- 2 extra terrain sprues for strike team.
- Filling out the Asterians and Forgefathers more.
- Upgrading the counters to acrylic.
Plus, all the other stuff for the starting 4 factions (looks like there might be at least 2 more lots of those that they want to add), and maybe some more mercs.
Plenty more goals to knock down, hopefully not everyone waits until the last 24 hours.
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Post by: Alpharius
"Hard Plastic" Enforcers would really make this thing take off, I'd think.
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Post by: Mr Gutsy
Has Mantic said who will be handling the plastic production for the Zombies/Enforcers yet? Im hoping that they won't be using the same Chinese company that was responsible for those horrible plastic KoW Goblins...
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Post by: Azazelx
 Alpharius wrote:"Hard Plastic" Enforcers would really make this thing take off, I'd think.
Agreed on that one. It would probably also help Warpath a lot in the interim as well, I think.
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Post by: Taarnak
Alpharius wrote:"Hard Plastic" Enforcers would really make this thing take off, I'd think.
I tend to agree. Although, I feel they should start with the "basic" Enforcers first, and not the heavies. I will get one or two squads of the heavies, but I would get at least 5 squads of the basic ones. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
They may not want to do that because it they already have the Restic ones though. Plus, Terminator proxies would probably sell well.
~Eric
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Post by: Peredyne
I have to say it - After checking out the Blaine artwork, I find myself thinking "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy". I think DZ is tripping the little kid in me that loves Star Wars. I never cared for the Star Wars CMG, but I can see where DZ would have a very SW feel. Minus the whole Jedi/Sith thing.
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Post by: Krinsath
scarletsquig wrote:Plenty more goals to knock down, hopefully not everyone waits until the last 24 hours.
This will now be exactly what I wait for... To make it up to you I'll make sure to use your sig link.
Also didn't you say the hard plastic Enforcers were hinted to be the big guys like the captain (i.e. - not-terminators) instead of the rank-and-file? I wouldn't mind the big guys, just want to make sure my expectation level is properly adjusted.
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Post by: DaveC
More Stretch Goals smashed! So, what's next?
Update #59 · May 26, 2013 · 30 comments
Wahey – that’s the Deadzone Compendium Stretch Goal swatted aside, great work guys!
We'll now include a free digital copy with every pledge!
Not only that, but we’ve broken through 3,000 backers, an amazing milestone, meaning that we can now write a brand new scenario for the Nexus Psi campaign - your new Deadzone Compendium has just gotten bigger!
You can now add on a printed version of the book in the add-ons:
However, don’t forget that our Deadzone Veterans get a free printed Veteran version of the Compendium, signed by Ronnie with a personal message of thanks, with an exclusive limited edition front cover:
So, how’s the best way to become a Veteran?
Assault Team ($290) is increasingly getting better and better value – not only do you get 2 of every faction, you also get two deluxe gaming mats, a shed load of scenery and two free faction starters of your choice - meaning you could pick up the Asterian and Forge Father Faction Starters.
From there, you could perhaps add on the Expanded Universe Faction Bundle, doubling up on the Asterians and Forge Fathers, breaking through the $300 and getting you your free Veteran Edition Deadzone Compendium!
This leads us on nicely to our next stretch goals:
Currently funding:
$610,000 - Insane Zombie Rules
Up Next:
$635,000 - Plague Zombies
New Stretch Goal:
$650,000 – NEW Asterian and Forge Father specialists
Asterian Black Talon
Asterians employ a range of specially equipped Cypher-units on the battlefield, each controlled by an operator aboard a cloaked Starship. Lithe and dextrous, only the most capable Asterian pilots command a Black Talon unit, a nimble jet-pack equipped Cypher. Like vultures they circle the battlefield, committing to deadly strafing runs with their rapid-fire Flux Rifles at the call of their commander.
Work In Progress Concept Art - we think some winglets around the legs are needed. What are your thoughts?
Forge Father Brokkr with Muspell-pattern Rifle
Forge Fathers know better than to be left wanting in a fight and, in addition to the Forge Guard entourage a ship may carry, the armoury is stocked with heavy duty weapons. Too powerful for a Brokkr to use without power-assisted Aesir armour, a modified version of the Heat Cannon called the Muspell is used instead.
When the Brokkrs are forced into a fight, they do so with devastating fire power at their fingertips.
Sample Concept Art for illustrative purposes only.
If we hit this goal, we will be able to sculpt and tool:
- The Asterian Black Talon specialist and add it to the Asterian Faction Starter!
- A new Forge Father Brokkr with Heat Cannon and add it to the Forge Father Faction Starter!
This goal adds more variety and options to the Expanded Universe Factions, fleshing out the troop choices they have at their disposal - add on the Faction Starter Bundle and help us get these brand new troops locked in!
Not only that but the following are now available to add-on to your pledge:
- Deadzone Compendium - $10
- Plague Zombies (20 Figures) - $15
- Nastanza, Twilight Huntress - $8
- Recon Unit N32-19 - $8
- Doctor Gayle Simmonds - $8
- 2 Asterian Weapon Drones with Fission Beam, Force Cannon and Shield Generator - $8
- 1 Forge Father Inferno Drill and 1 Crew Member - $8
- Asterian Black Talon ($5)
- Forge Father Brokkr with Heat Cannon ($5)
Download our Add-ons Guide to see the full range of extras we have available to add on to your pledge!
There's even more to come after this with plastic counters, new unique characters, solo play and faction starter booster sets all coming before the end of the campaign - let's see how many stretches we can breeze past today.
Get to it troops - and please spread the word, we're into the last week!
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Post by: Alpharius
Mantic is at a bit of a crossroads with Deadzone, at least for me.
Kings of War is suffering from a bad transition from concept art to actual miniatures.
Dreadball suffered from some really bad quality Restic miniatures making it out into the wild.
Deadzone has already had one misstep in terms of concept art to miniature in the Orx Marauder figures.
Now, there's not much faulting Mantic's customer service in terms of trying to accommodate people that want to switch things up if they don't like the look of miniatures that previously only existed as art, or in replacing defective casts, but...
IF there are similar problems with Deadzone, I'll pretty much be done with Mantic - and certainly won't support Warpath when it is announced/Kickstartered/released.
Which would be a shame, as Mantic has a golden opportunity to really grab some market share now...
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Does dreadball have such big issues though?
I will agree on realization of concept art to reality is an issue and they seem to have generally fixed it, but still have slip ups and dreadzone will be a huge test for them.
But the casting, are the miscasts percentage bigger than what is expected from the sector? they said they will go to tighten the quality control.
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Post by: Alpharius
PsychoticStorm wrote:Does dreadball have such big issues though?
I will agree on realization of concept art to reality is an issue and they seem to have generally fixed it, but still have slip ups and dreadzone will be a huge test for them.
But the casting, are the miscasts percentage bigger than what is expected from the sector? they said they will go to tighten the quality control.
No idea, but if they've said they're going to tighten QC, well, maybe the problems were a bit more widespread than they should have been?
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
the story so far is the first dreadball had issues because the machines were run faster than they should in order to meet the deadline, mantic directed their contractors to run machines at normal speed so season 2 should have no such issues, it seems this didn't happen and they will go over there to tighten their control.
Who knows why this happened, I read here that the factory may had taken another order from another entity and despite mantic paying for normal speed they seeded them in order to shove the extra order in their time schedule, speculation of course but it may happened.
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Post by: Krinsath
Alpharius wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:Does dreadball have such big issues though?
I will agree on realization of concept art to reality is an issue and they seem to have generally fixed it, but still have slip ups and dreadzone will be a huge test for them.
But the casting, are the miscasts percentage bigger than what is expected from the sector? they said they will go to tighten the quality control.
No idea, but if they've said they're going to tighten QC, well, maybe the problems were a bit more widespread than they should have been?
You could easily say that any problems related to an issue you had previously mentioned to your supplier as being more widespread than they should have been though.
My DreadBall stuff has been mostly just fine. The worst was the robots who had some considerable flash, and I had to straighten 3 Judwan and John Doe (a whole 5 minutes, mostly heating water) and one female human striker didn't seem to want to go together. Other than that, the models have been good and 10 "work" jobs out of just shy of 100 models isn't bad; not awesome of course but not enough to cause me to have grave misgivings.
In general, the only gripe I have with the physical aspects is models being twisted off sprues rather than snipped. As far as concept matching art, that's obviously a more subjective area. For DreadBall I feel they have stayed within a reasonable tolerance, though some KoW stuff has been quite...odd. The models we've seen for the non-marauder factions have been pretty close to the concepts though.
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Post by: Zweischneid
No.
Than again, most of my buddies could wait for DreadBall's retail release, pick up the stuff they like by looking at the miniatures on the actual release, or get release-mega-bundle deals that were almost as good a deal as the KS-pledges, and still have 2 or 3 weeks to paint their stuff before (!) my KS-stuff even shipped.
I don't find the DreadBall stuff bad. I really enjoy most of it. But if there's one thing I learned from DreadBall it's that there's no advantage with Mantic to buying the pig in a poke.
The - in my humble opinion - way to super-charge this Kickstarter would be for Mantic to give a Kingdom-Death-style guarantee that KS-backers get served first, no matter what (Chinese delays and all) and no Deadzone stuff will be on sale - including on events, Christmas if it has to be - until (random number) 4 weeks after the very last KS-package has left the warehouse.
Not gonna happen though.
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Post by: Alpharius
Probably more accurate to say "Who knows?"
Krinsath wrote: Alpharius wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:Does dreadball have such big issues though?
I will agree on realization of concept art to reality is an issue and they seem to have generally fixed it, but still have slip ups and dreadzone will be a huge test for them.
But the casting, are the miscasts percentage bigger than what is expected from the sector? they said they will go to tighten the quality control.
No idea, but if they've said they're going to tighten QC, well, maybe the problems were a bit more widespread than they should have been?
You could easily say that any problems related to an issue you had previously mentioned to your supplier as being more widespread than they should have been though.
My DreadBall stuff has been mostly just fine. The worst was the robots who had some considerable flash, and I had to straighten 3 Judwan and John Doe (a whole 5 minutes, mostly heating water) and one female human striker didn't seem to want to go together. Other than that, the models have been good and 10 "work" jobs out of just shy of 100 models isn't bad; not awesome of course but not enough to cause me to have grave misgivings.
A 10% defect rate in the customer's hands would not work in any of the various industries I've worked in...
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Post by: scarletsquig
PsychoticStorm wrote:the story so far is the first dreadball had issues because the machines were run faster than they should in order to meet the deadline, mantic directed their contractors to run machines at normal speed so season 2 should have no such issues, it seems this didn't happen and they will go over there to tighten their control.
Who knows why this happened, I read here that the factory may had taken another order from another entity and despite mantic paying for normal speed they seeded them in order to shove the extra order in their time schedule, speculation of course but it may happened.
Entirely possible, they paid the factory in advance to deliver the first wave of dreadball with all the printing and casting done, in fully shrink-wrapped retail boxes.
What *actually* arrived from China was all the seperate components in a million different parts, and no counters, resulting in pretty much no-one in the company getting any sleep for a month as they scrambled to assemble everything and find a new printer at really short notice to make sure DB didn't miss its shipping deadline.
Not something the consumer cares about at the end of the day, mind. IMO, they'd be better off using one of the many startup companies in the UK offering digital CNC + hard plastic tooling.
Money for tooling costs isn't really an issue as long as you have kickstarter and a captive audience highly eager to pay for that magical combination of low pricing *and* quality.
Not gonna happen though.
Have you asked them if it will or not?
I will never understand defeatist (and absolute) statements when you have easy access to click on a button and directly ask the people running the company anything you like.
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Post by: warboss
Zweischneid wrote:
No.
Than again, most of my buddies could wait for DreadBall's retail release, pick up the stuff they like by looking at the miniatures on the actual release, or get release-mega-bundle deals that were almost as good a deal as the KS-pledges, and still have 2 or 3 weeks to paint their stuff before (!) my KS-stuff even shipped.
That happened? Very poor form indeed. Kickstarter backers should recieve their stuff first before anyone else as they paid first prior to any other customers or retail chain members. Following these various kickstarter threads has definitely worsened my opinion of mantic. Poor qc, multiple bad or purposefully variant transitions from concept art to model, and now mercenary shipping to stores prior to fullfilling their existing obligations to maximize profit. Prior to a few months ago, the only bad thing I had seen or heard about them was the goofy looking elven dragon model they put out years before. The above moves are something I'd expect for Gw and not mantic.
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ Actually in the case of Dreadball, retail stores were the existing obligation.
They put money down on Dreadball orders before the kickstarter even existed.
Which is why I'm saying "ask Mantic and get a statement out of them if it's a concern".
None of the wave 1 shipments for Dreadball were late, they were delivered on the date listed on the kickstarter page.
If you want to wait for retail because you're certain that Mantic will ship to retail in November, and to backers in December, and immediacy is more important to you than discount, then wait for the retail release. That's your opinion and your decision to make.
Also, for the record, pretty much everything from the KoW kickstarter is shipping to backers either just before or up to 3-6 months before it will be appearing in retail stores.
Following these various kickstarter threads has definitely worsened my opinion of mantic
They're not half as bad as the echo chamber that these threads create would have you believe. That doesn't mean they don't have flaws, but the often-repeated "deliberate malicious intent" as the reasons for those flaws quite simply doesn't bear any relation to reality whatsoever.
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Post by: Krinsath
Alpharius wrote:
A 10% defect rate in the customer's hands would not work in any of the various industries I've worked in...
And if we're going to include "under 3 minutes to correct the issue(s)" as "defects", most of the manufacturers in the industry would have rates just as bad, if not much worse.
The worst was the robots, and overall they were no worse than cleaning up a metal GW kit and still better than more than a few FineCast ones. FineCast has its reputation for a reason though...
warboss wrote:That happened? Very poor form indeed. Kickstarter backers should recieve their stuff first before anyone else as they paid first prior to any other customers or retail chain members. Following these various kickstarter threads has definitely worsened my opinion of mantic. Poor qc, multiple bad or purposefully variant transitions from concept art to model, and now mercenary shipping to stores prior to fullfilling their existing obligations to maximize profit. Prior to a few months ago, the only had thing I had seen or heard was the goofy looking elven dragon model they put out years before. The above moves are something I'd expect for Gw and not mantic.
I'd contest the timeframe involved, but I have no local retailers to definitively refute that. 2 to 3 weeks of lag seems a bit much (but it could be the difference in nation; US naturally takes longer than UK) and, as Squig pointed out, we have no proof that those retailers weren't big backers themselves. You'll notice the DZ one has a pledge level specifically for retailers. Factor in additional contracts with some retail/distribution partners (whose support of Mantic likely pre-dates the KSes) and it's less a "we want all the money" and more "we want to be on good terms with the FLGS" (a decidedly non- GW move). Remember, many retailers hate KS because they cannot compete on the price and it's a crap shoot on if their clientele got it cheap from KS or if there's enough market left to be worth the money. Some store owners won't carry products that were Kickstartered for this reason.
An olive branch to that sector given the already-thin margins overall in there is far from "maximizing profits"; they likely make about the same money in the end. Given that they never said "we will ship this to you first" and they are in a position to have to honor existing agreements with distributors/retailers (unlike KD who does it all themselves online), it's no where near the asshattery of say taking a 10 model kit for $38 and turning it into a 5 model kit for $35. They're not perfect, but they've done reasonably well in trying to keep things up.
Most importantly, they're the only KS I've backed that hasn't missed their delivery window (jury still out on KD:M, naturally). They were on-time/early for the first shipment and on-time for the second with the third shaping up to be the same.
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Post by: Zweischneid
 Krinsath wrote:as Squig pointed out, we have no proof that those retailers weren't big backers themselves. You'll notice the DZ one has a pledge level specifically for retailers.
Well, with DreadBall at least they weren't backers. They were simply retailers ordering stock. That's actually how a list of the first handful of DreadBall stretchgoals were leaked. Someone posted a retailer-order list which had a fair few on them before they were "funded" or even announced on the Kickstarter.
Even if they would've been Backers though, through a retailer-pledge, they shouldn't get it massively earlier than other Backers though, but roughly at the same time (give or take a few days).
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Post by: Krinsath
Zweischneid wrote: Krinsath wrote:as Squig pointed out, we have no proof that those retailers weren't big backers themselves. You'll notice the DZ one has a pledge level specifically for retailers.
Well, with DreadBall at least they weren't backers. They were simply retailers ordering stock. That's actually how a list of the first handful of DreadBall stretchgoals were leaked. Someone posted a retailer-order list which had a fair few on them before they were "funded" or even announced on the Kickstarter.
Even if they would've been Backers though, through a retailer-pledge, they shouldn't get it massively earlier than other Backers though, but roughly at the same time (give or take a few days).
Yeah, your case in particular seems quite odd really from your other postings; it's almost like it would have been faster for you to drive to Nottingham to get it (since you have that option unlike the international backers). Out of curiosity, was Season 2 the same delay or roughly in line with retail shipments?
I ask because as we know now their supplier for DB really messed them up. If a distributor prior to the KS signed up for 400 copies to be delivered by December then that becomes the priority. An ink-signed contract carries infinitely more weight than a KickStarter pledge, and I think that mix-up with their supplier really screwed them over on meeting those contracts and getting the KS out. I would expect that to be a one-time thing and not impact DeadZone at all though, but obviously if you experienced the same delay on Season 2 that would not be the case.
All that said, I'm leaning much more towards supporting DZ in a big way and then just getting some Enforcer kit from the eventual WarPath KS. Having just spent the past couple hours taking advantage of the goregous weather to primer some Cadians reminded me that I have a lot of proxy models on hand for WarPath...
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Alpharius wrote:Mantic is at a bit of a crossroads with Deadzone, at least for me.
Kings of War is suffering from a bad transition from concept art to actual miniatures.
Dreadball suffered from some really bad quality Restic miniatures making it out into the wild.
Deadzone has already had one misstep in terms of concept art to miniature in the Orx Marauder figures.
Now, there's not much faulting Mantic's customer service in terms of trying to accommodate people that want to switch things up if they don't like the look of miniatures that previously only existed as art, or in replacing defective casts, but...
IF there are similar problems with Deadzone, I'll pretty much be done with Mantic - and certainly won't support Warpath when it is announced/Kickstartered/released.
Which would be a shame, as Mantic has a golden opportunity to really grab some market share now...
I'm not entirely sure the degree to which Mantic appreciates how widespread this attitude may be. For the most part, Mantic has been a " promising" company, that is, a company that may be great, might be good or might be crap.
The single descriptor that seems to be applicable to Mantic and their products right now is inconsistent.
Just look at the KoW sculpts and compare "Damon Richardson's Basilean Lord"
To the Sisterhood troopers and Lancers
One of the biggest problems is the appearance that they have very limited "tier 1" sculpting time, and it gets allocated to the characters... which seems rather self defeating, since the enormous hunger is for good looking rank and file troopers that are affordable.
Although in fairness they seem to share this attitude with GW at least, who seem perfectly fine with selling infantry units sculpted years ago alongside new, big money kits.
To get back to the point, the problem is that Mantic is still quite reliant on KS funds to flesh out their lines, and inconsistency is brutal for KS campaigns. If they have another "oops" moment like the first pictures of the Orx, they may find they have finally poisoned the well when they go back for Warpath or whatever.
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Post by: willb2064
The use of 3D sculpting is making me feel slightly better backing Deadzone as you can get a much better idea of the finished sculpt from a 3D render than concept art. Also, a lot of the figures that aren't 3D renders have already been sculpted, so it is much easier to see what you are getting than in KOW.
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Post by: Sining
Wasn't the whole DB issue simply because the season 1 shipment consisted of some MVPs etc that hadn't arrived yet? So while the shops could get the core set, nobody had the full s1 package.
Also, I think quite a few people were happy to receive their s1 shipment when they did because originally, there were supposed to be 2 backer tier shipments scheduled apart because of worry about the qty of the first print run, with the 2nd shipment being 1-2 months later. Yet, Mantic managed to deliver both tiers at the same time and on time. And when you consider what they went through to get the first tier out on time, they could have just said 'meh, screw this, I need some sleep. These guy know they're going to wait for theirs anyway' but they didn't.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I'm less and less excited about this the closer it gets to closing. I think I'm dropping to just terrain since I could use that for sure. The models I'm just not convinced I couldn't get them cheaper or at an equal value later (similar to how KoW wound up).
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Post by: Lansirill
Sining wrote:Wasn't the whole DB issue simply because the season 1 shipment consisted of some MVPs etc that hadn't arrived yet? So while the shops could get the core set, nobody had the full s1 package.
Mantic did give that explanation, yes.
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Post by: Krinsath
 Lansirill wrote:Sining wrote:Wasn't the whole DB issue simply because the season 1 shipment consisted of some MVPs etc that hadn't arrived yet? So while the shops could get the core set, nobody had the full s1 package.
Mantic did give that explanation, yes.
Wasn't Mantic so much as Jake, who's technically a freelancer I believe? I know Squig will be along to confirm or deny that. He was the one who detailed the supply failures and Mantic's response to said enormous failures (which amounted to "  it! We'll do it live!" as they hand-packed every box and still got it out by the KS estimated dates).
While the outcome was unfortunate in that retail got theirs before backers on Season 1 (again, I'm curious on Season 2), I think the other side of the story does illustrate how serious Mantic takes their fulfillment. A lot of companies would have just informed the backers of a delay and sorted it in due time, especially since most people expect that in a KS anymore. Mantic did not, and while they didn't do it perfectly, let's at least give them that bit of credit.
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Post by: Sining
Lansirill wrote:Sining wrote:Wasn't the whole DB issue simply because the season 1 shipment consisted of some MVPs etc that hadn't arrived yet? So while the shops could get the core set, nobody had the full s1 package.
Mantic did give that explanation, yes.
Well, does anyone remember seeing all the s1 minis in shops at that time?
They actually got it out before ETA for the wave2 backers, who were expected to get theirs in Jan/Feb.
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Post by: sparkywtf
Hulksmash wrote:I'm less and less excited about this the closer it gets to closing. I think I'm dropping to just terrain since I could use that for sure. The models I'm just not convinced I couldn't get them cheaper or at an equal value later (similar to how KoW wound up).
I am right there with you. Plus the fact that only a couple people at the store I go to would even bother to try to play, and I will never get it together and painted anyways.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Krinsath wrote:
I ask because as we know now their supplier for DB really messed them up. If a distributor prior to the KS signed up for 400 copies to be delivered by December then that becomes the priority. An ink-signed contract carries infinitely more weight than a KickStarter pledge, and I think that mix-up with their supplier really screwed them over on meeting those contracts and getting the KS out. I would expect that to be a one-time thing and not impact DeadZone at all though, but obviously if you experienced the same delay on Season 2 that would not be the case.
Yes. It was the Season 2 delay that got me a bit mad (leading me to post some less-than-ideally-thought-through posts here).
With Season 1, I accepted the "China-messed-up" story. It's Kickstarter and things are expected to be rough around the edges. Being served the exact same story for Season 2 felt ... off.
That said, as was repeatedly pointed out to me, Mantic never mentioned in any way that KS-backers would be the first to get it. So my indignation wasn't based on anything tangible, merely on what I "thought" the "proper" sequence would be.
And before anyone jumps in again saying it's not a "big issue"... it is not. I still enjoy my DreadBall stuff. I'll not be abandoning Mantic for a few moves I don't agree with (just like I haven't abandoned GW despite many things I don't agree with). But even the little things need mentioning IMO.
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Post by: adamsouza
Back on topic
http://quirkworthy.com/ wrote:
Dead in Deadzone
Zombies in Deadzone aren’t your traditional animated corpses. Really they should be called “zombies” because that’s just a nickname. However, they behave so similarly to the monsters from the old fashioned horror vids that most Corporation citizens wouldn’t argue about the niceties of the details. They shamble about in the tattered remains of their clothing, drooling, raving and attacking people (then eating them). Zombies seems pretty fair.
What they really are is the in-betweenies of the Plague infections. When Stage 2 Plague beasts fail to kill their victims outright then the survivors are usually infected anyway. Many more of them will die from this mutagen – the transformation is not kind. The “lucky” ones will survive the change to become Stage 3 Plague creatures and will romp off to join the merry band of mutants, ransacking the burning remnants of the civilisation they helped to build. Those that do not die, but fail to entirely survive the transformation, are left with pain, fury and mush for brains. These are the “zombies”.
They are far too stupid to be commanded in battle in any normal fashion and will merrily attack anyone from any faction. For this reason they are just as much trouble for the Plague that spawned them as for the Enforcers or Forge Fathers.
I’ve not finalised the rules yet, but the general idea is to have them bimble about the battlefield in large numbers, causing trouble for both sides. It’s an AI system, but given that the zombies have only the barest minimum of “I” in the first place the simplified version in the game won’t be terribly smart. And that suits them just perfectly
Dead Good
What is particularly good news about these zombies (apart from the cool rules and campaign) is the new models being planned. The concepts at the top of this page are what Mantic are aiming for, and I think they look pretty good. They will be moulded in hard plastic rather than resin-plastic, which is also good (it’s my favourite modelling medium), and the plan is to make them so that they are interchangeable with the existing Mantic zombies and ghouls from the Kings of War range. By mixing and matching between these sprues you’ll be able to build a great mix of poses and gear for a really shambolic and random zombie horde.
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Post by: Pacific
Wow, away for the weekend and seems I have some catching up to do..
I’ve not finalised the rules yet, but the general idea is to have them bimble about the battlefield in large numbers, causing trouble for both sides. It’s an AI system, but given that the zombies have only the barest minimum of “I” in the first place the simplified version in the game won’t be terribly smart. And that suits them just perfectly
How cool does that sound?
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Post by: Riquende
Well I'm always 'meh' on zombies, so to me not very, but it's certainly helped push the pledges up so I can't say I'm unhappy about it!
Hard plastic Enforcer not-Terminators though? If they get there, that'll be a lot more exciting to me.
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Post by: Black Nexus
Ooompf those plague zombies...
anyone else picking up 80 of these?
Based on the popularity and quality of mantic's fantasy zombies these would drop in nicely into my chaos army.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Teraton sculpt:
Very happy with that.
And a concept for the plague teraton:
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Post by: Vain
That Terry sculpt looks boss!
And it is large enough to make a damn fine Plague figure too.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
The female enforcer has issues for the time been at least, no space in tooling...
I hope she gets better and is included in the final pack.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Yeah, but there's lots of other stuff for them to getting on with, forgefathers and asterians probably need 3 more stretch goals to get them up to scratch, then there's probably two lots of new specialists for all the basic 4 factions, acrylic counters, extra terrain for strike team, new battlezones, hard plastic enforcers.
They need to hit $800k to get the basic game "done" before they can go off and do other fun stuff.
Hopefully we won't just trickle along at $15k/day right until the last 48 hours, otherwise its going to be a bit boring until the weekend finish (the 48 hour warning will go out on friday evening, perfect timing there from mantic since that's the busiest time for pledging).. but if anything kickstarters are becoming even more skewed towards the first and last 48 hours of a project than ever before.
It's entirely possible that this one could swing an extra $500k on the final day or two.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
It is, but it should have hit 800k by now, or Wednesday at the latest in order to be successful, dreadballs success was that it had went to season 2 and beyond, before the final rush was reached.
Time will tell, I remain optimist for the ladies chances.
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Post by: Black Nexus
^^ DreadBall didn't break 500K until the last couple of days and ended on $700+
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I do not disagree with that, but dreadball had finished with season 1 stuff long before that, it was mid way funding season 2 stuff, well you may say we are there too and you might be right, although I am not sure if extended universe is part of the original pack or not, that been said as scarletsquig said the basic packs seem to need some fleshing out, w still have announced models that have not seen the light of day and models that have seen the light of day, but have not been announced.
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Post by: Pacific
Teraton looks rather cool! Can imagine that thing duking it out in close combat with some of the plague guys..
Are those some kind of Halo-style energy wrist blades I wonder?
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I understood them as regular impactors, they even fold back for added kinetic energy.
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Post by: Compel
I'm going to painting mine up as Mass Effect style Omni Blades.
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Post by: warboss
Cool looking sculpt... kind of reminds me of the space triceratops villains from TMNT.
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Post by: scarletsquig
There's some new graphics up on the front page now...
In the add-ons section, the mercenaries pic shows 4 "locked" boxes, indicating that there's another 4 mercs to come, for 10 in total.
And the "expand your faction" pic has 6 "locked" boxes, possibly indicating that booster packs for all 6 factions will be an add-on, once all of the minis for those have been revealed via stretch goal.
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Post by: Lansirill
Does anyone have a link to the post regarding force selection? I think there was a post on Jake Thornton's blog about it, but I didn't see it while skimming.
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Post by: squall018
Teraton sculpt is awesome. The enforcers will be my main faction, but I think the Rebs will be the most fun to paint by far.
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Post by: rosafari
I played a couple of beta DZ games at the weekend, I was going to put some thoughts together for this thread but my opponent went one better and wrote a fully fledged blog post. I've since added my response below the line:
http://cautionsmallparts.com/crossing-over-to-the-deadzone/
or here (may not make total sense without his bit but I don't want to c+p his hard work):
We both struggled to get our heads around the activation mechanic -which I think I have the gist of now, after asking for clarification on Jake’s blog- and I think it’s an ok idea but woefully underwritten in the Beta ruleset.
The game appears (from KS promos etc) to exist halfway between board game and tabletop wargame but in practise is much much closer to the latter, albeit skilfully streamlined. I’d hesitate to recommend it to boardgamers at all except as a gateway to games with mini’s – I suspect even my friends who have happily played Zombicide etc would be turned off by DZ, coloured playing pieces or not.
But as a light skirmish wargame it works pretty well. The abstractions – gridded movement/distance measuring and cubic volumes, binary cover/no cover, direct fire v blazing away – are all generally elegant and (once understood) argument free. What I didn’t like so much were the LOS definitions (which I’d summarise as: able to see any part of the model inc base = allows direct fire, able to see whole of model inc base = clear shot bonus). In practise this is no quicker than necromunda’s ‘can I see more or less than half of the figure?’ just with the goalposts shifted, losing some immersion at the same time with its gameyness. Other thoughts – cards worked well, whilst being a bit vanilla – I can totally see those getting more tactical/faction specific. Factions were pleasingly different to play, and seemed balanced. The rules have clearly been written with the boxy Mantic scenery in mind, our impromptu setup was sometimes a bit fuzzy.
Overall I enjoyed it without being blown away. The beta lacks a bit of character and pizazz that maybe mission variants, specialists and the bigger monsters will add, but there is a sound ruleset to build on.
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Post by: GrimDork
I think secret missions in the faction decks will help make games more interesting, when you don't know what your opponent's goal is.. adds more urgency to completing your own goals and or room for deception.
The LOS doesn't bother me, I figure its a Scifi game... scanners, UAVs supersenses, if you catch even a glimpse of an enemy you can probably light him up through the wall he's behind.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, rosafari, the more we hear the better!
Also the new update is out, sick new merc incoming, talk of multiplayer/mat just not too much details, probably more when its a stretchgoal for realsies.
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Post by: Triszin
Invoking the Wrath of...
Update #62 · May 27, 2013 · 12 comments
We're into the final week and we're going to be rolling out a number of goals as we build up for a massive finish!
Of course, the Plague Zombies are up next - and we've got some updated concept art!
Concept Art is work in progress
After that comes the fabulous Asterian and Forge Father Specialists - but then comes:
$665,000 – Wrath
Throughout their long and noble history, there has never been a Judwan warrior or a Judwan murderer, and certainly nothing like the psychotic assassin known as Wrath. At least, not until now. The following information has been pieced together from a variety of sources, and the truth of the matter will probably never be known for certain. The few that did know the truth of this code 8 secret operation are mostly dead. The handful that remain are running for their lives or hiding where they think he cannot find them.
It seems that he was taken from his parents at an early age and raised as an assassin for the Council of Seven. Producing such unwavering killers was probably only one order issued among many others and was long forgotten by the time he was old enough to be sent on his first mission. Still, he was their work.
His first mission was almost his last as the Enforcers he accompanied nearly shot him on the spot for disobeying direct orders under fire. Despite his excellence in training and simulation, when it came to reality he would not kill. He was, after all, Judwan.
The programme leader was give a month to persuade his subject to see reason. Failure would not be a healthy option for either of them. From that point the means of persuasion became increasingly blunt and desperate. Hypnotism, indoctrination, and behavioural therapy were quickly replaced by surgery, implants and mind-probes. These failed too, so more were tried, as was simple torture to break his will – to force him to obey. After a month the programme leader claimed a great success. He had broken the Judwan. Turning around such a high cost investment was such good news that even one of the Council saw fit to inspect this most lethal of new weapons in their arsenal.
Reports of this official demonstration are sketchy, but the results are clear. Today the assassin known as Wrath is the most wanted sentient in the galaxy. He is at the top of every Enforcers shoot to kill list and has been the target of no less than nine fleet sized actions. Small cities have been nuked in an effort to kill him, but he has slipped away quietly every time.
The main reason for this unusually costly pursuit is simple revenge. Wrath carries one of the Council of Seven’s ceremonial blades, and this he took from the dead hand of the Councillor himself. He cannot be allowed to live. His every breath is an encouragement to the Rebels and an embarrassment for the Council and the Corporation. The problem is that he was trained too well...
Mercenaries are powerful additions that can be brought into your squad. They offer unique rules and abilities.
If we hit this goal we will be able to sculpt and tool Wrath, a Psychotic Judwan Mercenary who has unfortunately been experimented on by the Corporation a little too much…
We’ll include this amazingly characterful figure to game pledges of Recon ($100 and Early Bird)* and up to say thanks!
* Not including scenery-only pledges.
Going BIG
If you didn't catch Jake's Quirkworthy post on game modes earlier, you'll notice he talked about games that go BIG. Here's what we had to say:
Multi-mat Games
Two-player games with more than one mat as a battlefield. Playing lengthways down a two-mat battlefield gives a different type of game as there is a longer approach/position phase, plus long ranged weapons play more of a role. It’s possible to use light vehicles as there is enough space and ground to cover.
Multi-Mat boards look very impressive - 4x4 or even 6x4 games are achievable.
Multi-player Games
Usually on more than one mat, but possible to play on a single one. These games pit teams of players against other teams of players – in effect taking a large two-player game and breaking each side down into sub-commands. Introduces an element of co- op play into Deadzone. Naturally I’ve slightly spun this by saying that even though each side shares a common goal they also retain separate missions for the sub-commands.
Of course, both of these games could be combined together
Let us know what you think in the comments! Automatically Appended Next Post: so vehicles after all this, i cannot wait.
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Post by: Ahtman
 rosafari wrote:I played a couple of beta DZ games at the weekend, I was going to put some thoughts together for this thread but my opponent went one better and wrote a fully fledged blog post.
Interesting read, and some nice pics, but I am a little confused by this statement: "If you like more traditional board games (even ameritrash)".
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Post by: rosafari
Boardgamers tend to divide games into "euro's" - strategic, chit heavy diceless affairs - such as Puerto Rico, and "ameritrash" - more random beer n pretzel games - such as Zombicide etc all the way back to Heroquest et al. It's not generally meant as a pejorative as such, but some serious boardgamers are sniffy about games that involve any luck at all.
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Post by: Krinsath
 Ahtman wrote: rosafari wrote:I played a couple of beta DZ games at the weekend, I was going to put some thoughts together for this thread but my opponent went one better and wrote a fully fledged blog post.
Interesting read, and some nice pics, but I am a little confused by this statement: "If you like more traditional board games (even ameritrash)".
Ameritrash is a quasi-affectionate term given to board games that have tons of little individual plastic pieces and are typically "overproduced" with counters, cards, etc. rather than being simple "Euro-style" games.
I believe it goes back to the 80s with Milton Bradley's Gamemaster series of Axis and Allies, Shogun and Fortress America. For more modern examples, Fantasy Flight Games is known to make them with Twilight Imperium and Horus Heresy standing out in my mind at the moment.
While it sounds offensive, it's my understanding that it's more a reflection of the game's style than anything related to quality. Most people I've seen use the phrase have said they love the games they're applying the label to, so it's one of those strange little terms I think. If DeadZone were a true board game, I do believe it would qualify for the label, but as an actual miniatures game that likes to pretend to be a board game it isn't.
Since we're approaching neckbeard territory I'm sure any errors in the above will be pointed out soon...
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Post by: rosafari
No, that's a much better explanation
The point attempted on blog (and briefly in the KS comments before getting BB gunned down) is that DZ looks a bit like an ameritrash board game - with its board/mat and scientist level coloured playing pieces - and has at times been talked up as such but it isn't by any stretch, it's an out and out skirmish wargame, and anyone pledging expecting something akin to even Zombicide will be baffled and frustrated.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Ameritrash is a good thing. The more the better.
Most games I own are Ameritrash ones.
1st Edition Descent was a fine example of an ameritrash game. Hell, basically anything in a Fantasy Flight coffin box.
I can't see board gamers being too put off by the rules. Especially ameritrash fans. Many ameritrash games already take their cues from min games anyways, and even those that don't tend to pour the rules on pretty heavy. Fantasy Flight games especially dig in to similar rules- cover, suppressed fire, overwatch, ammo issues/ jams/ malfunctions... I know we've dealt with most of those in games like Doom, Tannhauser, Descent...
Maybe I need to read through the beta rules. I'm still fiddling with the alpha ones.
Weren't they going to have both styles of turn order available?
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Post by: Black Nexus
wrath of judkhan?
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Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
So, what are the real chances that we see a "big Kboom" in pledges until the end of the week? I really want more forge fathers...
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Post by: decker_cky
 The Dwarf Wolf wrote:So, what are the real chances that we see a "big Kboom" in pledges until the end of the week? I really want more forge fathers...
Guaranteed. But the size of the boom varies considerably from Kickstarter to Kickstarter.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Minis Kickstarters almost always have a fairly pronounced end rush because many of us hold of final pledge increases until the last day. So while gained backers tend to be lower than the first few days, the total cash intake can often be many multiples higher. It is just the effect of a large portion of the entire existing pledging base adding non-inconsequential amounts of money to their pledge. This is why having a large number of backers is often the most important metric for the end rush, because a bunch of people popping $20+ on to pledges has a pretty pronounced effect when you have thousands of backers.
That said, whether the end rush will exceed the first day on this one is up in the air. But lately we have been seeing a trend in really heavy last-day rushes, so there is a fair chance. It will be interesting to watch, either way.
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Post by: GrimDork
I'm in at $400 right now. Started at 2, went to 4 after a paycheck. There is one more installment to come from me, its partially waiting on accrued funds, and partially because I wanna see what exactly I want before I put down a final sum. I realize I could throw it all in now and Sort things out when the survey comes but I'm already stretching my hobby budget waay too far for this as it is.
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Post by: Black Nexus
does seem like more and more people are waiting until the end and boom then it goes. Would be impressed if it's bigger than the first day though, that was a mega result.
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Post by: GrimDork
Seems like there are a lot of miniatures kickstarters, people maybe are just waiting to see if something more exciting comes along, where they just stick to the sweet spot pledge or drop out instead of going all-in.
I think we can beat the 170k or whatever it was on day 1. I guess maybe i'm rolling the last day or two together though. I would be ecstatic if we could get our heads down and bullrush 1m.
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Post by: Alpharius
The last two days will probably at a minimum equal the first tow days, if not 2x them.
IF they have the 'right' stretch goals, of course!
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Post by: JoshInJapan
Huh. We blew through three stretch goals to get to the rules for zombies, but now that zombies are actually on the table, pledging has slowed down. Are there that many people sitting on a pile of unused SW Strain models...?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I suspect the reason you blew through stretches to reach the zombies was folk adding the cash for the zombies before they were achieved.
So most existing backs don't need to add more money, and it's all down to recruiting new folk again
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Post by: scarletsquig
There's a lack of good add-ons with this one, at this point Dreadball was rolling out completionist upgrades for season 1 teams as well as having the extra teams themselves as BOGOF deals.
We have the terrain on this, but there aren't any bundle deals for it, it's all $25/battlezone (pretty much), so.. who really knows how that will compare to the retail release?
Then there's the mercs which look to be roughly in line with Dreadball MVPs at their current price, so not much incentive to add them. Starter factions.. no idea what these will contain at retail, or their price.
Needs super-value bundle deal for all the mercs not included in Strike Team.
Needs super-value bundle deal for the specialists not included in Strike Team.
In fact a "any 2 factions for $50" bundle would be pretty sweet too, the EU bundle worked great since it is a good value add-on, can't see the harm in applying that to all factions.
The main issue is, the add-ons have to at least somewhat compete with simply going for assault team... which is a reasonable option, but does tend to result in a few more duplicates than the average backer might want.
The rules previews haven't really indicated whether or not the duplicated and extra minis will be made useful or not. In Dreadball, this was xrystal clear, if you wanted to play a team, you really ideally wanted 16 players in that team to fill out all of your gameplay options for different positions which made expanding the team quite an easy choice.
It's possible that Mantic are aiming for a slightly lower total on this than its potential, after the pain of having to make a loss of 10k minimum on the KoW kickstarter, which is fine too, I think they know they struggle to cope if things get too big, which this KS easily could have done.
I don't mind if they only make kickstarters with no stretch goal freebies at all and only a nice, simple hefty discount on all the new minis that get produced. I'd still happily back that kind of structure as long as I was able to make a good call on the value.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
It probably half because of people adding for the zombies and half of been holidays in the UK and US.
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Post by: Widdershinz
I'd really like to see some mock ups of the other battlezones. The image of how much of the core world set can cover a table was great, something like that for the others would sell me up. The fort zone doesn't look like you'd get much out of it comparatively.
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Post by: edlowe
The lack of addons is certainly damaging the pledge total.
Bundle deals for warpath players to pick up larger units would certainly be welcome.
To be honest im staring at the screen waiting for the list of stretch goals that Ronnie promised the other night. If we knew what was coming in the next 100k it would drive enthusiasm and let us see more clearly where the games heading.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
scarletsquig I will agree with this, problem is for once there are only two mercs not included in the strike team and the completionists packs are waiting for streachgoals....
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Post by: scarletsquig
Oh, and 100 zombies for $60 would probably get more than a few people going nuts on them. I've bought hard plastic from mantic at less than that price before, and it was very, very enjoyable.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
It needs something to get things pumping for the next few days.
Warpath bundles, zombie bundles, those factions boosters we've heard about yet haven't seen, a roadmap of where those funds are going to take us... we just need more.
I just wonder how much longer they want to tease us with snippets and glimpses of things to come? Things are starting to wind down.
With less than a week I hope they lay all their cards out on the table soon.
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Post by: Alpharius
More clarity/examples on what you can do with the various terrain types would be helpful...
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Post by: Compel
I'm sort of agreeing. I'm sitting on a fairly high value pledge right now and... There simply isn't enough stuff for it to be filled out.
I don't need a load of terrain - I've spent the last 10 years buying terrain. (And yet, I still went for an extra 2 battlezones over strike team for variation).
Zombies? Bought 80 of them in Halloween
Table? Bought a table years ago
Paints and hobby stuff? Bought years ago.
That basically just leaves the EU factions, some specialist dudes and the urban detailing kits. - Which I'm kinda iffy about because I'm not sure how well they'll blend in with my desert based battlefield...
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Post by: edlowe
I think scarlet squigs right, theres no big exciting offers to pull people in. Everything seems very nice but its not really at the crazy levels I thought it would be.
Dont get me wrong im very happy with whats in strike at the moment but it does seem like there could be another 200k in the bank if the options were there for bundle deals and bogof.
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Post by: darkPrince010
Right now I'm only in for $20: The rules and an Enforcer Captain (The original, better imo one) as it's about the cost of retail elsewhere anyways.
Problem is I have no home or tabletop space for terrain (So anything above the $40 mark is starting to look like money spent for unneeded, if cool, terrain), and I have my stupidly-massive Bones KS in the wings here within the month or so so I have no shortage of figures.
Worst of all is that I just don't feel I'm getting the value out of the minis I would be getting (Terrain, definitely, but see my above sentence on storage space/need). Right now it's approximately $30 for 15 minis, and I don't think it's enough to be worth my currently-tight budget monies.
In the KoW KS the BOGOF offers were incredible values, and I'm still-now kicking myself for not budgeting more towards Elohi, Trolls, Ogres, and even the battle nuns for Sisters of Sigmar proxies. However, I have yet to see anything like this from the DZ KS, with the closest being the BOGO42%O ("Buy-One-Get-One-42%-Off") of the EU bundle. Maybe the KoW BOGOF was a terrible idea that cost Mantic money and wasn't something they wanted to repeat, but right now the pricepoint is turning me off of pledging any higher.
I'm really disappointed by this as I really want to support Mantic more, but I can't afford to pay GW prices for minis, even for a company I really like, at this point in time. If they pop out BOGOF offers here in the next few days then I will be a happy camper and most likely be seeing if I can squeeze more blood from the turnip of a paycheck I'm working with, but until then I'm sitting with just a rulebook, a mini, and a lot of hopes.
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Post by: edlowe
New update seems to imply there will be better offers and deals coming soon!
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Post by: adamsouza
I think Striker is a good value
5 Teams + Terrain + Gaming Mat + Personalities(3?) + Dice + Cards + zombies(5)
The only thing I'm more concerned with is only ordering stuff from Wave 1. I'm slightly annoyed with still waiting for stuff that goes with my Wave 1 Dreadball Teams a year later in Wave 3 (extra figures, prone figures)
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I guess I will drop the update
Big on Miniatures
We are half way to securing the Hard Plastic Plague Zombies (Seriously, $15 for 20, you just can’t go wrong!) so it’s time for our next, next, next goal… yup, if Asterian and Forge Father Specialists AND Wrath wasn’t enough…
$675,000 – BIG Games!!
We will write rules for playing Large Skirmish Games!
This new mode of playing allows you to:
Play on a larger battlefield
Two-player games with more than one mat as a battlefield. Playing lengthways down a two-mat battlefield gives a different type of game as there is a longer approach/position phase, plus long ranged weapons play more of a role. It’s also possible to use light vehicles as there is enough space and ground to cover.
It’s possible to play on a 4’x4’ Battlefield or even a 6’x4’!
You’ll also be wanting some longer ranged troops …
Play cooperatively with a friend, or against many friends
Usually on more than one mat, but possible to play on a single one. These games pit teams of players against other teams of players – in effect taking a large two-player game and breaking each side down into sub-commands. Introduces an element of co- op play into Deadzone. Even though each side shares a common goal they also retain separate missions for the sub-commands.
You’ll also be wanting to expand your force beyond your initial faction starter (you may want to pick up a second one, or look out for our Faction Boosters for games played on four or more mats) so some sergeant-level models will be coming up...check out Jake's Force Organisation post for more details of how to construct your force.
If we hit this goal, we will add a free digital copy of the rules for playing larger skirmish games to all pledge levels by including them in the Compendium.
This includes both multi-player and multi-mat modes. You don't have to use both, you could for instance use multi-player on a standard 2'x2' board and have your friends join in. Similarly, you could combine the two new modes with the experience-driven linked campaign system already included in the Core Rulebook to create some truly epic multi-player, multi-mat games where your squad grows in experience and power - the choice is yours!!
Preparing for Big Games
With larger games on the horizon and the prospect of playing on multiple mats, we have some deals available so that you can get multiple Deluxe Gaming Mats - and then you'll be wanting more scenery to go on top of that!
After that we have the Faction Boosters coming up PLUS some cool new deals designed to boost your starting force…stay tuned!
Until tomorrow fine folks Let's see if we can get those Zombies in!
Interesting is the shaded image pic name goblin weapon teams.
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Post by: Yonan
That's something I like about the terrain in this KS though - it's modular and can be disassembled into space efficient stacks of walls and bags of connectors. You could collapse the entire tabletop of terrain down into a very small area. Which also means, every time you use it you'll assemble it in a new way which is also great ; ) Edit: Looking forward to the rules for the large games. If they can keep it similar yet still play different, it will make for a great variety of gameplay depending on what you feel like.
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Post by: darkPrince010
Yonan wrote:
That's something I like about the terrain in this KS though - it's modular and can be disassembled into space efficient stacks of walls and bags of connectors. You could collapse the entire tabletop of terrain down into a very small area. Which also means, every time you use it you'll assemble it in a new way which is also great ; )
Trust me, I don't even have space for that! I have minis almost overflowing from my cupboards,and they certainly will be overflowing once the Bones KS arrives.
The thing is I really don't need the terrain, and the Bones KS has heavily diluted my thirst for minis. As a result, I'm only really looking at springing for them if a ridiculous deal pops up (The zombies are a contender atm, but not definite yet for me personally as I have lots of fantasy ones at home), and so far nothing stands out at me.
Now, if there was a $60 deal for two factions, rules/chits/paper maps, and no terrain, or $100 for all four factions, the game stuff, and no terrain, I'd be looking at them more heavily as the unlocks start to make it more like $1/model rather than $2/model, but right now I'd be paying for a lot of terrain I wouldn't need for any pledge over $40. Hopefully they might introduce a reverse-Terrain pledge, but I dunno.
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ I'm in at $140 EB + secret weapon Deadzone board currently (this thing is seriously good, take another look at it if you haven't already, it is getting proper 3" tiles, custom-produced for deadzone and the person making them *really* knows what he's doing).
I have another $150 or so worth of add-on potential before the survey ends if it looks like a good deal. There would be room for more than that too if it wasn't for also dropping $185 on the KoW survey (big spending month for me and Mantic ).
The 2x2 board is appealing for me since it means that not a lot of effort is required to cram it full of terrain, and paint all of that terrain to an extremely high standard, I can see myself with a very sweet looking plastic board + full terrain set for this.
I already know what I'm going to do with it. There's not going to be any grey whatsoever on the board.
I'd like to get a "full set" for the Rebs.
I'd also like to add $50 to get some ruins battlezones, but have some concerns about the concept art, which just looks like a carbon copy of the core worlds sprues at the moment, with a few small bullet holes and minor scratches on it rather than being actually "ruined" in the same way that the GW terrain is.
So, that's 2 major add-ons that I'm firmly in "wait and see" mode on.
We're not getting the new faction stuff until the post-$675k mark, so things are likely to remain pretty slow until the last 48 hours, at which point the rush of pledges will unlock all the add-ons that people have been waiting for.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Unless mantic does something to fix that.
The blank streachgoals are intriguing, they seem to save up in order to make shorter streachgoals later, not sure if this is the best strategy, worked well on the start, but flattened momentum in the middle, now?
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ The forgefathers/asterians kinda turned things into molasses, and I think I know why.
They marked the point at which strike team stopped getting a steady stream of freebies, and the project started to do too many different things at once.
Ideally, the goals should have already finished off the starting 4 factions 100% by now.
They went a bit too early with the forgefathers/asterians and the terrain expansions. Not enough focus on the core.
The "1 choice of faction free" + weird shipping stuff* if you want that to be one of the new ones thing also made things confusing as well as making people doubt the value that would be offered.
Mantic would have been better off doing something like "Strike Team booster unlocked!" +$25 gets you TWO new factions, forgefathers and asterians, which will be boosted with stretch goals!
*Everyone* currently on strike would have added that as a "no brainer" add-on, and it would have been exactly the same deal that the EU bundle currently offers.. it's just that the wording and marketing would have been a hell of a lot more appealing.
*I spent a LOT of time banging on like a broken record on the Mantic forums before this KS started about "don't make people pay separate shipping, it is boring and confusing", so seeing a confusing-as-hell shipping .pdf rear its head in the middle of the campaign was a bit of a facepalm moment.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Clearly Mantic are in damage control*.
*Sorry, it's just that everyone says that whenever it appears something goes wrong, and I just wanted to say it once.
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Post by: warboss
scarletsquig wrote:
They went a bit too early with the forgefathers/asterians and the terrain expansions. Not enough focus on the core.
People seemed to be clamoring for those here in the thread at least IIRC... was it the same over on the kickstarter comments?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well advertised Kickstarters are like reverse bell curves. I don't think we have anything to worry about.
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Post by: scarletsquig
People were clamouring for pretty much everything, and still are.
I'm still really hoping for acrylic counters, +2 terrain sprues for strike team, all 6 core factions completed, hard plastic enforcers.
Just needs that little push to get it there, and I don't think the three upcoming stretches of " ff/asterian, free merc and then a free rules expansion" are going to do the trick before the weekend compared to stuff that could unlock some more good value add-ons that people are wanting as this starts to end... only the ff/asterian specialist goal really helps towards that end, and then only for the people buying the EU bundle.
Still really confident that we're going to see around +$500k in the last 2 days, it's just frustrating to be following this like a hawk every day, knowing that I'll only have the last day or so to make my add-on decisions and won't be able to increase until the last minute since the stuff I want won't be live until then... which is ironic because since having to do this will result in me personally being a textbook "spike at the start and end" backer, as all of my contributions to this will fall on the first day and the final day.
Quite a well planned KS in terms of timing though. It covers two end-of-month paydays, and the final 48-hour warning goes out on Friday, the most active day for any KS campaign.
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah this should do well before its all said and done. I, too, am hanging on to the last portion of my pledge as i'm not 100% certain what I'll be filling the gaps with.
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Post by: Lansirill
scarletsquig wrote:
Still really confident that we're going to see around +$500k in the last 2 days, it's just frustrating to be following this like a hawk every day, knowing that I'll only have the last day or so to make my add-on decisions and won't be able to increase until the last minute since the stuff I want won't be live until then... which is ironic because since having to do this will result in me personally being a textbook "spike at the start and end" backer, as all of my contributions to this will fall on the first day and the final day.
Well, I pledged on the first day, and then around 4-7 days later when the terrain add-ons went live, and I'm probably not upping my pledge anymore (I'll just shuffle how I allocate what I pledged) so we can balance each other out. Sortof.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I still wish I could pick my factions.....
As a side note I think what's happened with the KoW stuff has hurt this. The retail price coming out showing that the BOGOF was actually more than most people will get stuff at retail was pretty harsh. Between that and the Orx and other iffy sculpts I think it's put a bit of a pinch on this one.
I might be down just Scout for Rebels with one or two additional models and then I might boost it during the post-kickstarter survey thing.
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Post by: Talking Banana
I did some rough calculations on the Antenociti stuff. From what I can tell, it's a slightly better deal than ordering straight from Antenociti IF you want everything in a given bundle. If you want most of it, but find some pieces uninteresting, it seems the price offset isn't worth it, and you're better off just going to Antenociti's website to pick and choose. I did say rough calculations, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
By my reckoning that makes the Warehouse deal and Military bundles worthwhile.
My plans for this keep fluctuating up and down, but at the moment I'm hedging my bets and sticking to the two Antenociti sets and Strike team. If Mantic decides to offer some good bundle deals, I could easily see my pledge going up again.
I have to agree with Scarletsquig - the current stretch goals are not going to motivate a lot of new pledging, or increased pledges. And at this stage in the game, putting up a stretch goal for a rules upgrade is counterproductive. They want to upgrade the rules for bigger scale skirmishes so people will want to buy more mats and figures and terrain. It's in their own best interest to get those rules expanded asap. Making it a stretch goal - one that will motivate no one - just means it will take longer for the pledge total to get to the point where they can release the big units etc. that will motivate people to want to buy the extra terrain etc. in the first place.
Really, the time for phantom "new rules in your digital pdf" goals ended a long time ago. Filler like that at this stage in the game is just clogging up the works.
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Post by: Triszin
hey, slightly off topic, i just assembled my season 2 figures from dreadball, and i got a bug head instead of the robot hero head. =/ where do i contact?
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Post by: Alpharius
Triszin wrote:hey, slightly off topic, i just assembled my season 2 figures from dreadball, and i got a bug head instead of the robot hero head. =/ where do i contact?
Not sure, but I'd suggest asking in the Dreadball thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/502957.page
instead of in the Deadzone thread.
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Post by: frozenwastes
The terrain is starting to catch my eye. I actually found the pictures of what you get spread out on 2x2 (and larger) sections to be the best thing about the latest update. I'm now getting tempted by a terrain only pledge with some Antenocitti's add ons.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
MORE rules? Seriously?
Gotta echo the sentiment of that being a totally LAME stretch goal at this point in the show.
How's that going to drive numbers up? They should have had those rules locked in a lot earlier, or they should offer something to go along with those rules to get people spurred into buying more.
I'm not personally interested in bigger games at this point. Why would that push me to pledge more to reach that?
Oh, what's that? You wan to offer me new models to purchase- not just have a goal to start tooling as a carrot dangling far off in the future, but as an actual purchase without all the song and dance so that funds start driving up substantially? Okay, that I can get behind.
Stop dicking around already!
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Post by: Hulksmash
It's felt from the beginning that Mantic has been trying to keep funding on this one farther down than it has the potential for.
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Post by: Yonan
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I'm not personally interested in bigger games at this point. Why would that push me to pledge more to reach that?
It's not all about you thankfully. Other people might prefer to play only larger games, and this will draw them into pledging. Given they plan to play large games, they'll also likely pledge a lot. Other people decided to pledge less because you don't need much on a 2x2 board. With rules for 4x4 and larger they'll have the justification they need to get more terrain and minis to fill out larger boards. Sounds like a good way to get more funding to me.
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Post by: Triszin
I'm excited for big games, not for the rules, but for the light vehicles it will add.
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Post by: Hulksmash
@Yonan
Then they should produce the rules and present them. Instead of making them a stretch at this point. They should already be allowed and new bundles should be put up for them with stretches for new models/extra models to be added either for purchase or in Strike.
A stand alone rule stretch at this point isn't going to increase pledge amounts.
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Post by: Yonan
It's no different to any other stretch goal. "Oh I want that, I'll pledge to help achieve it". Making substantial additions to the rules will be expensive, it's a valid stretch goal.
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Post by: Trasvi
Are there any pics of Mantic minis against Sedition Wars minis? Would they be reasonably interchangeable between games?
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Post by: Azazelx
Yonan wrote:With rules for 4x4 and larger they'll have the justification they need to get more terrain and minis to fill out larger boards. Sounds like a good way to get more funding to me.
Honestly, then it shouldn't even be a stretch goal. Want people to buy more models? Throw the rules expansion in as a bonus, not a stretch. Automatically Appended Next Post: Trasvi wrote:Are there any pics of Mantic minis against Sedition Wars minis? Would they be reasonably interchangeable between games?
They're basically the same size, and I'd consider them interchangeable/compatible. Latest post from the weekend on my blog was some size comparison stuff around Maxmini heads. The pics show some Mantic corp and enforcers and a SW male and female. Note, the SW figures are about 1mm shorter because they lack an integral base.
Quick pic for those who don't want to click. More pics on the blog, obviously.
From left-right, we have a Sedition Wars female, a “marine” made of a Maxmini head, GW torso and Anvil Industries legs. A sci-fi Bombshell Babe. She’s about the height of a marine, but less bulky – A good representative for many of Reaper’s sci-fi figures. Next is A Mantic Enforcer, Mantic Corporation with actual head, Sedition Wars male, and another Mantic Corporation fig with Maxmini “Biohazard” diving bell. Last up, we have a completed GW Space Marine.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Yonan wrote:
It's not all about you thankfully. Other people might prefer to play only larger games, and this will draw them into pledging. Given they plan to play large games, they'll also likely pledge a lot. Other people decided to pledge less because you don't need much on a 2x2 board. With rules for 4x4 and larger they'll have the justification they need to get more terrain and minis to fill out larger boards. Sounds like a good way to get more funding to me.
You're right, it isn't all about me. What it should be about is getting fence sitters and new backers interested and enticing people like me to put more money into this project.
If I'm already throwing hefty sums of money at Mantic for a product I'm obviously interested in, why aren't they doing more to sell it to me? Get me for all I've got!
I'm not going to give them more money just for the hell of it or to be nice. However if Mantic said "Oh, we'll toss in these (?) items to whet your appetite for larger scale games, and then we'll offer X items at a reduced price to go along with these new rules," well all of a sudden, I'd be a hell of a lot more interested in wanting to play a much bigger game- which means I'm tossing more money into the pot and everyone wins.
Right now though, I'm content to sit with my pledge currently where it is.
I get rules take resources to put together, test, edit, and test some more. Rules alone aren't going to drive pledges up. My opinion the goal should have been the rules+ some bonus to entice me to play larger games. Offer up vehicle add- ons when it unlocks, or free non- faction artillery included at certain pledge levels... something besides more pages to a PDF file/ book I'd end up with anyways if there were more options to purchase.
I'll chalk my attitude up to sheer impatience, but I really feel Mantic has tried to play it a lot safer this time around. I won't pass judgement until all is said and done.
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Post by: Compel
I guess what they could do is just bump up any stretch goals by the amount of money needed for the rules then try to go for, "we'll do the model and the rules for it to integrate it into the game."
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Post by: Lansirill
They could simply have made it a stretch goal because Jake is still working on getting the rules drafted. I wouldn't be surprised if he's working on stuff right already, and they just placed a stretch goal at about the point they figured he'd be done.
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Post by: Riquende
Hulksmash wrote:
I want to pledge more but nothing really fits for what I want. I'm not even sure my current pledge is going to stay where it is....
Hulksmash wrote:
I think the more I look at this the more I'm going to be dropping strike for just Scout (for rebs) and then a bunch of terrain. Or maybe just specific models and terrain.
Hulksmash wrote:
Shame since I'm likely to drop Strike now as the more I look at it the more the only starter that looks worth painting to me is the Rebs.
Hulksmash wrote:
I'm less and less excited about this the closer it gets to closing. I think I'm dropping to just terrain since I could use that for sure.
Hulksmash wrote:
I might be down just Scout for Rebels with one or two additional models
For someone so set on dropping their pledge you sure are taking a while to actually do it....
Still not sure how much to put on this, I've just spend far too much panic-completing an Epic army.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Is it wrong to hold out hope till the last day or two? I keep hoping they'll do something to inspire me. I'm still currently in for $300. Most of what I've written is me verbalizing my conflict at spending on this project when I also have spent far to much finishing my Epic and Gothic forces in the last few weeks.
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Post by: jdelrio22
Anyone care to provide input on how the game plays?
I'm debating on getting two of the same starters but I don't want to be in a situation where I can't use all the minis.
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Post by: Zweischneid
jdelrio22 wrote:Anyone care to provide input on how the game plays?
I'm debating on getting two of the same starters but I don't want to be in a situation where I can't use all the minis.
There are actually a few game-play "aspects" video on the Deadzone Kickstarter ( Line of Sight for example.)
Not to mention the actual Beta Rules. Have a try with some proxies from your bitz-box.
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Post by: Ahtman
There was a blog post a few pages back with some gameplay impressions of the beta rules. Here is a link to the blog.
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Post by: Alpharius
I think the hinted at vehicles will cause a surge in excitement and pledges, especially for 'weaponized' versions of the Dreadball mech...
A much needed 'shot in the arm', though really in all likelihood this one is still going to finish in the $900K - $1M range!
I just hope they've got those stretch goals ready for the last day frenzy - which is on a Sunday at 7PM EST!
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Post by: scarletsquig
The gameplay video should be out today, too, which will be nice, it's a lot easier to learn a game by viewing it being played than by reading about it.
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Post by: Alpharius
scarletsquig wrote:The gameplay video should be out today, too, which will be nice, it's a lot easier to learn a game by viewing it being played than by reading about it.
Agreed!
I'm looking forward to that - I'm sure there are a lot more visual learners out there!
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Just $5k before zombies! Hopefully with it not being Memorial Day things will step up a bit today and we see the stretch hit by the end of the day. Then it is on to more precious specialists.
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Post by: Krinsath
Hulksmash wrote:Is it wrong to hold out hope till the last day or two? I keep hoping they'll do something to inspire me. I'm still currently in for $300. Most of what I've written is me verbalizing my conflict at spending on this project when I also have spent far to much finishing my Epic and Gothic forces in the last few weeks.
I understand this completely, as I'm pretty sure my waffling on this KS is very well-documented at this point. I really want to go big, but I don't want to be one of those "STUFF FOR THE STUFF GOD!" crazies...anymore.
I'm just waiting for that killer add-on to show up that helps break the indecision between the two extremes at the moment.
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Post by: agnosto
I don't get the big games thing; isn't that what Warpath is for? I feel they shouldn't develop this to the point it will compete with Warpath...
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Post by: scarletsquig
At the moment, I'd mainly like to see them round off the basic core game (getting all the stuff for all 6 factions sorted, and those booster packs that everyone wants unlocked) before going off and starting the 4x4 stuff with the vehicles and large models and stuff.
It's just kinda nice to have the core stuff "in the bag" before moving on to other nice, but non-core stuff like the zombies rules expansion and the 4x4 rules expansion... people get itchy fingers whenever a "Your .pdf will get a couple more pages of rules in it" $10k stretch goals are posted, and the fanfic .pdf goal at $525k was an absolute pain in the arse to get past, it was funded at 3am one morning, but wasn't funded at 9pm the next day after the total yo-yo'ed like crazy for that entire 18-hour period.
That one definitely wasn't necessary, we already get more fanfic submitted to Ironwatch magazine*, than can be published, and that's in a monthly .pdf fanzine.
With dreadball, all the season 1 stuff was 100% funded before they moved on to season 2, which worked quite well (if you look at the kicktraq pages for both projects, you can see how well they handled the endgame with dreadball).
*(which I occasionally make cover art for, if anyone is curious, issues #2, #8 and #9 are my work, as well as the logo )
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Post by: Zweischneid
I agree. The Dread-Ball Seasons added a really nice structure to the overall Kickstarter. It was "tidy" in a way this one kinda isn't. And - at least in my experience - it created a really good "Kickstarter-Dynamic" at the end of the DreadBall-KS as everyone wanted (!) to get Season 3 into the bag.
There's no "milestone" of that sort apparent with this one (at the moment).
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Post by: Alpharius
From the comments section:
scarletsquig 39 minutes ago
Also, maybe a super-bundle that has all 6 of the faction boosters... that kind of thing really worked well in the last 2 weeks of Dreadball.
Creator Mantic Games 8 minutes ago
@ Scarletquig - get out of our heads!
Creepy!
Also, what exactly would that entail, do you think?
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Post by: Gitzbitah
Alpharius wrote:From the comments section:
scarletsquig 39 minutes ago
Also, maybe a super-bundle that has all 6 of the faction boosters... that kind of thing really worked well in the last 2 weeks of Dreadball.
Creator Mantic Games 8 minutes ago
@ Scarletquig - get out of our heads!
Creepy!
Also, what exactly would that entail, do you think?
Sounds like Scarletsquig would have be some sort of multilimbed, mind invading organism- I'm thinking something like Invader Zim's house, or a beholder/mindflayer hybrid. Then Mantic would have to extricate him without damaging the grey matter- it actually sounds like a fine game of Cthulu.
As far as a 6 faction pack goes, perhaps a terrain style booster, with levels of 3 faction packs, 4, 5, and 6 at progressively better discounts- they might not come with associated freebies so as not to devalue or encourage sidegrades of the Strike pledges, but would provide more raw models.
36276
Post by: Zweischneid
I don't really understand why they don't throw in the odd pdf and perhaps even a mini with high terrain-only pledges.
Not the full thing you'd get with strike perhaps. But it would cost you nothing (pdf) or very little (the odd character mini) to throw in a little teaser for those guys pledging "only" for the terrain for their Infinity group or whatever. Who know's, you might tease yourself into a new customer in the long run.
61979
Post by: DaveC
Here come the boost packs will that got another $40 from me.
Buy One Get One Free!
Update #64 · May 28, 2013 · 1 comment
It’s time for more stretch goal madness as we delve into the mysteries of what’s next – here we go again!
$700,000 – Enforcer Faction Booster
From the start of the campaign we committed to producing six fantastically varied Factions bursting with exciting troop choices, rather than producing many Factions that were lacking in support.
To this end, we've created the Faction Boosters, cool upgrade packs with fantastic new specialists to add variety and options to your Faction Starter - your squad will pack one hell of a punch with these great new choices! Whether you're playing through a campaign and earning experience (and accruing powerful heavy weapons) or just picking up and playing against a mate on a rainy weekend, these new models will allow you to tailor your force to the mission at hand.
If we hit this goal, we will tool the Enforcer Faction Booster – the first of these upgrade packs for your Factions full of brand new specialists:
Enforcer Medic
Enforcer Sergeant with Energy Gauntlet – can also double up as an alternate Assault Enforcer.
Enforcer Defender with Shotgun and Blast Shield - Pose 1 of 2 shown, 2nd still to come.
Faction Boosters are designed to fill out your squad with new and exciting figures including Sergeant level models, two-man weapon teams (or in the case of the Enforcers who probably wouldn't utilise this kind of unit, the Defenders) and new support characters, adding more variety and choice to your squad and offering simple one-click add-ons for you to get all of the latest figures coming out.
To this end we will also include the Enforcer with Burst Laser/Incinerator in the set as well (similarly we'll add the Marauder Hulk, Rebs Kraaw and Plague 3rd Gen with Grenade Launcher to their respective Faction Boosters as well!)
The Enforcer Faction Booster is available to add on to your pledge for just $20:
BUT WAIT!
We will be doing a Faction Booster for at least the first four races before the end of the campaign (and if we get into uncharted territory, we hope to be able to add the other two on as well!), so to make it extra easy to expand your factions, we've put together some mega deals!
Here comes the…
Buy One Get One Free!
Boost your faction!
In order for you to make your money go further we've put together some awesome booster bundles based around all of our specialists - a one-click purchase option to add on a whole heap of cool new troops for your squad.
To make the deal all the more sweeter, if you add-on any one Booster Bundle you can choose any second bundle FOR FREE! You can either pick two of the same Bundle or two different sets – the choice is yours!
This deal effectively includes 6 Booster Packs at a price of under $10 per booster - bargain!
Ships Q2 2014.
The Plague Faction Booster set is coming not long after the Enforcer Set meaning the choice of cool models available is set to get a whole lot bigger!
Right guys, let's start knocking some of these goals over - we're so close to the Plague Zombies we can almost - almost - taste them.
4001
Post by: Compel
And here... we... go.
$50 buy one, get one free faction boosters.
First up is the enforcers at 700k.
39827
Post by: scarletsquig
Looks like we're in luck! BOGOFs are back!
Think I'll go for Rebs and Enforcers boosters.
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
That Enforcer booster looks great! Hmm, I may have to grab one afterall. I hope this goes far enough to produce some Wave 2 faction boosters, but if not a Reb or Marauder booster would probably be of some interest. Well that's another easy $50 when we hit it.
61979
Post by: DaveC
Just realised I only have to add $13 more not $40 for the the first 4 factions $20 boosters as I already had $27 in for their specialists but they are now oart of the boosters.
20774
Post by: pretre
Ohh snap. I have no idea how much I'm going to spend now.
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
And that little announcement seems to have surged us closer to the zombies unlock now! Less than $1000 left.
1478
Post by: warboss
I dunno... the BOGOFs seemed to be the cause of much drama in KOW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:  DaveC wrote:
If we hit this goal, we will tool the Enforcer Faction Booster – the first of these upgrade packs for your Factions full of brand new specialists:
Enforcer Medic
Is it just me or does this guy look like the biggest badass of the whole enforcer lineup? Awesome looking mini.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
So looking carefully at those boosters, it seems that's where some of our silhouettes are ending up.
Our carpet things looks like it's next to the base of the infected teraton.
It also looks like we're getting artillery in those boosters for the other factions- it seems the plague are getting a mortar while the marauders get their cannon.
Is that a 2 man heavy weapon team for the rebs?
This is more like i was expecting deal-wise.
Good on Mantic! Drive those numbers up!
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Post by: Alpharius
Same here!
This one just got expensive!!!
59456
Post by: Riquende
 warboss wrote:
Is it just me or does this guy look like the biggest badass of the whole enforcer lineup? Awesome looking mini.
There's a certain Master Chief vibe going on with his helmet. I don't know if it's just the angle though.
4001
Post by: Compel
I do have an visual image of Ratchet talking to Optimus Prime from that pic.
And dammit. Mantic now has me in for 500 frikking dollars. (In other words, I've re-hedged my bets upwards again).
It's a good thing that after this 40k campaign I'm going to is over, I pretty much won't need to do anything remotely GW related, except for buying a couple of books, for a long time...
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Post by: Alfndrate
We all know medics are the biggest bamfs ever. So lemme get this straight, I'm in for a strike team, I currently have the option of 1 free faction starter on top of the 4 I'm already getting yes? If I spend 20 dollars in addons, I can choose Forge Fathers or Asterians without the 10 dollar shipping charge? Feth me I think I might drop 50 bucks on this and grab me Enforcers and Rebs (love the little sebulba looking guy )
4001
Post by: Compel
Yup, Alfndrate, exactly.
Incidently, we just unlocked zombies.
44183
Post by: decker_cky
Those booster add-ons also seem to increase a lot of the various models into small warpath unit sizes. If you want to play X faction in warpath, scout + BOGO booster bundle of that faction gives you a fair bit (lacking in basic troops, but a good number of specialists).
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
Stretch goal reached. We have zombies people! Now, lets get me some more dorfy goodness! 
Can't wait for this thing to hit $700k so we can start knocking out boosters though. If we can send the total high enough, then we should be able to get Asterians and Forge Fathers in to the mix before the end. If not, the Enforcer booster is really doing it for me. I'm a sucker for riot shields and shotguns. I can foresee my Enforcers getting a lot of use in Tomorrow's War with the amount I have now.
39827
Post by: scarletsquig
So, you can get either 30 minis for $50 or 60 minis for $100.
Using the enforcer booster bundle as a base, obviously other factions will have less if they have larger models.
That's some seriously good value there.
*and* if you add an add-on, you don't have to worry about the shipping thing and can pick up forgefathers or asterians with your freebie.
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
That Medic is pretty bad-ass looking. Especially for a medic.
He does give off a bit of a Spartan vibe.
I tossed another hundred in. Hell at this point with the booster and all the figures would I have enough figures for a starting warpath Enforcer army?
My brother will be happy his energy gauntlet Enforcer has finally made a formal appearance.
1478
Post by: warboss
 Riquende wrote: warboss wrote:
Is it just me or does this guy look like the biggest badass of the whole enforcer lineup? Awesome looking mini.
There's a certain Master Chief vibe going on with his helmet. I don't know if it's just the angle though.
I didn't get that vibe but I could see where someone else could, especially with all the armor customizations options in Reach and Halo 4. I'm personally getting a nostalgic RIFTS vibe from him. Is there any way of picking up just single minis like this guy from the kickstarter?
39827
Post by: scarletsquig
highlord tamburlaine wrote:That Medic is pretty bad-ass looking. Especially for a medic.
He does give off a bit of a Spartan vibe.
I tossed another hundred in. Hell at this point with the booster and all the figures would I have enough figures for a starting warpath Enforcer army?
My brother will be happy his energy gauntlet Enforcer has finally made a formal appearance.
Yes, you do have enough for a Warpath army, easy. Probably around 1000 points or so, and with the nicer-looking DZ minis too.
61979
Post by: DaveC
Just to clarify as I asked
Creator Mantic Games 1 minute ago
For clarity, the $20 Boosters are not BOGOF, only the $50 bundle
Looks like I'm in for $100 then makes more sense than $80 for 4 $20 sets.
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
Now that is a bit of a boost right there. Already a few thousand more dollars up and only a few minutes since breaking $635k. This could shape up to be a pretty good day.
1478
Post by: warboss
Ouch.. so this newly revealed stuff is coming out in Q2 2014?
72319
Post by: highlord tamburlaine
scarletsquig wrote:
Yes, you do have enough for a Warpath army, easy. Probably around 1000 points or so, and with the nicer-looking DZ minis too.
Awesome.
Only problem is he called Enforcers first. I guess for skirmishes between the two of us I'll let him use his guys. I'll just have to roll with one of the other factions.
Kids called Plague already so I guess I'll field Rebs until the EU guys (hopefully) get decked out as well.
Onwards and upwards until the eventual mecha!
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Post by: Saxon
Yes, says it in the update!
39827
Post by: scarletsquig
@DaveC: Yep. For $100 you get 12 of the $20 sets, saving $140 in total.
It's a stacked discount, which makes it even sweeter.
- $20 for one booster.
- $50 for 3 boosters. (so saving $10)
- Then the BOGOF doubles that to $50 for 6 boosters.
So, really, really insanely good deal and the pledge total has jumped by like $5k in the last 30 minutes.
And it's pick and mix, whichever factions you want.
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
warboss wrote:Ouch.. so this newly revealed stuff is coming out in Q2 2014?
Yup, I figured most stuff at this point was going to be Wave 2. But I'm already waiting on FF's and Asterians, so this lot can keep 'em company on the way over. Too insane a deal to pass it up though.
1478
Post by: warboss
It's a pretty good deal but I'm only looking for a few figs from the whole lineup. With all the drama surrounding mantic about variation from concept art (or renders in this case), I'm probably better off waiting to see the medic and recon enforcer guys in the wild (along with two other figs from different factions I like). If they were coming out quicker, it might be a different story though.
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