Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.
Well to be fair, most of that ap3 is S4 and doesn't have ignore cover. The heldrake torrent is still a LOT better. It's a good auxiliary choice for the cost too. Not as cheap as a singular spawn but it packs a lot more punch and most people seem to include one in their list anyway.
If you have the points and are using the daemon weapon though, you'd want the traitors hate formation. Combined with some of the formation bonus or psychic rerolls one (exalted)sorcerer could take out a wraithknight if you can get it down to leadership 8.
Grand Coven:
War Cabal:
-Exalted Sorcerer
-1 Unit of 10 Rubrics (Soulreaper/Icon/Bolters/AspSor)
-2 Unit of 5 Rubrics (5xFlamers)
-1 Unit of 4 Scarab Occult (Soulreaper/Helfyre)
-1 Terminator Sorcerer
Tzaangor Warherd:
-Exalted Sorcerer
-3 Units of 10 Tzaangor
Lord of the Legion:
-Exalted Sorcerer
I think that makes a decent ~1850/2000 point list. Not very competitive, but that's okay. What do you people think?
I think this needs to be posted in the 40k section for army lists and not cluttering up the news and rumors thread. Please stop talking about your list
Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.
Technically the Squadrons were errata'd in with Traitor's Hate so....
Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.
I don't really see the attraction of a trilas predator since FW gave us deimos vindicator laser destroyers.
They cost 10 points less and all their lascannons are twinlinked as opposed to the main gun on preds. Plus they have built in pseudo tank hunter with ordnance. for the low low cost of risking a hullpoint on a 1 afterwards.
The only thing you're missing out on is monster hunter, but you're likely wounding those on 2+ anyway. I'd rather have twinlinked guns to hit them in the first place.
Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.
I don't really see the attraction of a trilas predator since FW gave us deimos vindicator laser destroyers.
They cost 10 points less and all their lascannons are twinlinked as opposed to the main gun on preds. Plus they have built in pseudo tank hunter with ordnance. for the low low cost of risking a hullpoint on a 1 afterwards.
The only thing you're missing out on is monster hunter, but you're likely wounding those on 2+ anyway. I'd rather have twinlinked guns to hit them in the first place.
I don't think they can be used in a Grand Coven though.
Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.
I don't really see the attraction of a trilas predator since FW gave us deimos vindicator laser destroyers.
They cost 10 points less and all their lascannons are twinlinked as opposed to the main gun on preds. Plus they have built in pseudo tank hunter with ordnance. for the low low cost of risking a hullpoint on a 1 afterwards.
The only thing you're missing out on is monster hunter, but you're likely wounding those on 2+ anyway. I'd rather have twinlinked guns to hit them in the first place.
Well, the first attractive point is the fact you can take a Tri-Las predator in meta-detachment but you can't take a Deimos.
Ah, I thought tzeetnch only got daemon engines. After another look at their formations, yea, makes more sense to take a trilas then considering they have so little anti tank.
Kirasu wrote: Sorta disappointing that the detachment is basically just all the new models forced on you. Yet you can take demon engines but no warsmith or vehicles but no CSM? (Who pilots them then?). They could have made this a bit more interesting rather than be so dogmatic about restricting it heavily to new kits.
Not sure what you mean, Rubrics can take Rhinos as DT.
Scarab Termies can take Land Raider.
Taking them separate is just there.
Not only that, but if for some reason you wanted to take CSM, they would also have their DT option , you just follow the list for them becoming Thousand Sons CSM.
As a sidenote, FW/GW really need to do something about this incompatibility. It's always been irritating to point but especially now with all these formations, both loyalists and traitors have a really hard time to shoehorn FW into their lists. We really need more unit swaps like the cataphractii and kytans.
Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?
You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.
BEcause a Helldrake dominiates the board more than some AP2.
Helldrake wrecks Eldar bikes, wrecks Nid swarms, ork swarms, guard swarms, and now GSC swarms.
Kirasu wrote: Sorta disappointing that the detachment is basically just all the new models forced on you. Yet you can take demon engines but no warsmith or vehicles but no CSM? (Who pilots them then?). They could have made this a bit more interesting rather than be so dogmatic about restricting it heavily to new kits.
Not sure what you mean, Rubrics can take Rhinos as DT.
Scarab Termies can take Land Raider.
Taking them separate is just there.
Not only that, but if for some reason you wanted to take CSM, they would also have their DT option , you just follow the list for them becoming Thousand Sons CSM.
Apparently they have two auxiliaries covering all of our base dex vehicles, so you don't even need DTs to get them.
For everything else though you need a CAD or traitor's hate, which sucks because you can't use the new units and vice versa (... or can you? Still nobody that has answered this XD). Well unless you keep the detachments small of course, which is kinda hard.
My impression so far is that with TSons you either go full ham wrath of magnus with daemons mixed in or you don't use Wrath of magnus at all aside from maybe an allied detachment of WC batteries and relics.
I hope so. If you've seen them from the Silver Tower set, you'll know how small they are. A box that contains 10 Blues & 10 Brimstones + 20 bases would be the same amount of plastic as the currently box of 10 Pinks + all their extras like icons and instruments. We know Blues and Brimstones don't have those extras, so probably less plastic is needed
I have a question on the exact wording of the Blessing of Tzeentch rule. Does the +1 invuln save bonus apply only to the targeted unit, or will it apply to any unit that benefits from a blessing even if they are not targeted? For example, would sinistrum power armor of hatred cause a 12" radius bubble of +1 to invuln saves? Obviously it's not a great power by itself, but could be a way to spread the love around more easily if you aim for something like warp fate and don't get it.
Roknar wrote:As a sidenote, FW/GW really need to do something about this incompatibility. It's always been irritating to point but especially now with all these formations, both loyalists and traitors have a really hard time to shoehorn FW into their lists. We really need more unit swaps like the cataphractii and kytans.
Agreed, if you want FW, you'd have to take a TSCAD to get them. There should be a side formation that covers the FW stuff
I hope so. If you've seen them from the Silver Tower set, you'll know how small they are. A box that contains 10 Blues & 10 Brimstones + 20 bases would be the same amount of plastic as the currently box of 10 Pinks + all their extras like icons and instruments. We know Blues and Brimstones don't have those extras, so probably less plastic is needed
A box of 10 Blues and 10 Brimstone pairs for ~30$ would be great
A box of 10 Blues and 10 Brimstone pairs for ~30$ would be great
~$30 for 10 & 10 would be great, but you'd still need 2 boxes for each box of Pinks
My strategy is to have 11 PINK w/ blue and 11 BLUE w/ pink. Each time a Pink dies, I use reuse it + 1 Blue to represent the 2 Blues. No sense in those models sitting in the dead-pile when they can keep fighting.
A box of 10 Blues and 10 Brimstone pairs for ~30$ would be great
~$30 for 10 & 10 would be great, but you'd still need 2 boxes for each box of Pinks
My strategy is to have 11 PINK w/ blue and 11 BLUE w/ pink. Each time a Pink dies, I use reuse it + 1 Blue to represent the 2 Blues. No sense in those models sitting in the dead-pile when they can keep fighting.
That's a great idea actually, would be interesting to see how the color scheme comes out, would fit the theme really well too imo
Bulldogging wrote: I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but how are you supposed to run the horrors? Combined arms only(as daemon)?
You run them the same way you do now, but with tons of Blue and Brimstone horrors on the side lines ready to spawn. Most players took 2x 11 Horrors in a CAD and I don't see that changing.
However, I suspect players who were running the Warpflame Host with many units of 11 Pink Horrors may choose to cut that number in half and re-paint some Pinks as Blues. Blue & Brimstone Horrors will not benefit from Detachment bonuses (until FAQ'd) so I think players will still rely on Pinks, but you need less of thanks to the split rule
From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.
Bulldogging wrote: I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but how are you supposed to run the horrors? Combined arms only(as daemon)?
You run them the same way you do now, but with tons of Blue and Brimstone horrors on the side lines ready to spawn.
Most players took 2x 11 Horrors in a CAD and I don't see that changing.
However, I suspect players who were running the Warpflame Host with many units of 11 Pink Horrors may choose to cut that number in half and re-paint some Pinks as Blues.
Blue & Brimstone Horrors will not benefit from Detachment bonuses (until FAQ'd) so I think players will still rely on Pinks, but you need less of thanks to the split rule
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Thanks. I was just hoping there was a formation that could be used in the thousand son "decurion" since it was in this book.
So, it's basically just a random unit update for an army that isn't the main focus of the book its in.
buddha wrote: From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.
What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.
SonsofVulkan wrote: Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?
Let's nip this one in the bud early.
I fail to see how this is "nipping it in the bud" since it is entirely possible for Wrath of Magnus to state: "The following Daemon Formations can be taken as Auxiliaries for the Incursion Detachment from the Curse of the Wulfen book". That would surely count as being "explicitly stated otherwise"
This is the question that was asked: Does the book allow the Daemon formations to be taken in an Incursion Detachment?
SonsofVulkan wrote: Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?
Let's nip this one in the bud early.
Spoiler:
I fail to see how this is "nipping it in the bud" since it is entirely possible for Wrath of Magnus to state: "The following Daemon Formations can be taken as Auxiliaries for the Incursion Detachment from the Curse of the Wulfen book".
That would surely count as being "explicitly stated otherwise"
This is the question that was asked: Does the book allow the Daemon formations to be taken in an Incursion Detachment?
-
Sure it's possible, but there has never been an instance of GW adding new formations to old detachments, and there is no indication that this would be any different.
What I want to know is can you have a Thousand Sons Black Legion Army. As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping an army from being both, and if so does that mean that you can use Artifact from both books?
Sure it's possible, but there has never been an instance of GW adding new formations to old detachments, and there is no indication that this would be any different.
Forge World has done it for the Eldar Warhost detachment. You can take a Hornet Swarm formation as an Aux for them. And there is plenty of precedent for GW copying FW
The Pandemoniad of Tzeencth (this WoM unique demon army) is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle forged army. Unlike the detachment shown in Warhammer 40,000 the rules it has a force organization chart who slots are a combination of specific formation and Arnie list entries instead of battlefield roles. However it still has compulsory an optional elements as well as restrictions and command benefit just like any other detachment.
Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment units from a formation that is part of a Pandemoniad of Tzeencth are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If you're warlord is part of the formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a Pandemoniad that entire Pandemoniad is your primary detachment.
Page 60. Not sure if this helps.
Wow. Thanks VeteranNoob. I think that does answer it. So the Pandemoniad of Tzeencth is a detachment that can be included in any other detachment and share that detachments benefits.
So it would not count as an AUX for the Incursion, but can be included and gains Daemonic Corruption. If I understand correctly
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: What I want to know is can you have a Thousand Sons Black Legion Army. As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping an army from being both, and if so does that mean that you can use Artifact from both books?
You might want to ask that in YMDC, because there was quite an argument about whether or not that would work with traitors hate and more specifically its sub formations.
But this is even more of a can of worms.
buddha wrote: From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.
What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.
A formation that you may as well be playing Apocalypse for because lol, 3 of them required.
buddha wrote: From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.
What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.
I would also like to know that. So far I have NOTHING on it's contents beyond what was in the community site "leak".
Galef wrote: Wow. Thanks VeteranNoob. I think that does answer it. So the Pandemoniad of Tzeencth is a detachment that can be included in any other detachment and share that detachments benefits.
So it would not count as an AUX for the Incursion, but can be included and gains Daemonic Corruption. If I understand correctly
No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.
buddha wrote: From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.
What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.
A formation that you may as well be playing Apocalypse for because lol, 3 of them required.
I mean, you could also use Kytans and be under 1850 if you were in the mood to lose in a non-apoc game.
Verviedi wrote: So I'm guessing we'll see a lot of lists that look like this in the future. Forgive me if I'm wrong and have no clue how Chaos works.
THOUSAND SON MFD
War Cabal
Core:
Exalted Sorceror
Exalted Sorceror
Min Rubric Marines
Min Terminators
Aux:
Daemon Engine with Heldrake To Infinity
To start, yes. This will be the most basic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kirasu wrote: Sorta disappointing that the detachment is basically just all the new models forced on you. Yet you can take demon engines but no warsmith or vehicles but no CSM? (Who pilots them then?). They could have made this a bit more interesting rather than be so dogmatic about restricting it heavily to new kits.
You could cut off the lower half a tzaangor and kit the top half to poke out of the hatch. I read that sorcerer get loyalty from them by treating them well. That was a joke but I would like to see it.
Galef wrote: Wow. Thanks VeteranNoob. I think that does answer it. So the Pandemoniad of Tzeencth is a detachment that can be included in any other detachment and share that detachments benefits.
So it would not count as an AUX for the Incursion, but can be included and gains Daemonic Corruption. If I understand correctly
Same with the TS Grand Coven it specifically states this, I quoted, wel,speech to text quoted. Hope that helps.
andysonic1 wrote: No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.
Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.
andysonic1 wrote: No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.
Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.
I'm not sure I follow...
Are you saying, in a regular Incursion list (say, the Warpflame host), I can add Magnus in that Command slot?
andysonic1 wrote: No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.
Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.
No. Daemons inside the Pandemoniad of Tzeentch (from Wrath of Magnus) have the special rules from the PoT detachment. Daemons inside the Daemonic Incursion (from Curse of the Wulfen) have the special rules from the DI detachment. You can never belong to both, and therefore can never benefit from both benefits.
andysonic1 wrote: No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.
Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.
No. Daemons inside the Pandemoniad of Tzeentch (from Wrath of Magnus) have the special rules from the PoT detachment. Daemons inside the Daemonic Incursion (from Curse of the Wulfen) have the special rules from the DI detachment. You can never belong to both, and therefore can never benefit from both benefits.
This. This is how it has been for every detachment released to date. No double dipping.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: What I want to know is can you have a Thousand Sons Black Legion Army. As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping an army from being both, and if so does that mean that you can use Artifact from both books?
You might want to ask that in YMDC, because there was quite an argument about whether or not that would work with traitors hate and more specifically its sub formations.
But this is even more of a can of worms.
GW really needs to get their gak together, why should someone need a PhD to figure this stuff out?
The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.
Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.
On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.
Crazyterran wrote: The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.
Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.
On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.
If you are going to trust the average imperial idiot...
Crazyterran wrote: The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.
Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.
On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.
If you are going to trust the average imperial idiot...
Dorn coming back is probably just as much wishful thinking. I mean, one had his hands were fished out of the ruins of a chaos battlebarge the other could be using technology that has been set up in the Horus Heresy books.
Edit: remember, faith is a thing in 40k. Enough people believe the Emperor is a god, thus his powers are increased. All primarchs have latent psychic potential, so if enough people believe Guilliman is healing, it is another way in universe.
Crazyterran wrote: The Ultramarines never said it, but various people that visited. Typically pilgrims.
Enough people in the Imperium believe it that its spread around, and that these pilgrims come to visit the 'miracle of the primarch'. We all know how beliefmworks in 40k.
On top of that, there was a stasis unit that healed someone in the 30k books, so there's a couple ways they could do it. It could have taken ten thousand years to counteract Fulgrim's Anathemes, heal the threat slash, and for someone to trip over the power cord.
If you are going to trust the average imperial idiot...
Dorn coming back is probably just as much wishful thinking. I mean, one had his hands were fished out of the ruins of a chaos battlebarge the other could be using technology that has been set up in the Horus Heresy books.
Edit: remember, faith is a thing in 40k. Enough people believe the Emperor is a god, thus his powers are increased. All primarchs have latent psychic potential, so if enough people believe Guilliman is healing, it is another way in universe.
Are you familiar with the common trope of "Never found the body"
BTW, I am not in the camp of people thinking Dorn WILL come back. I just wish he would come back. I am firmly in the camp of the Loyalist Primarch that will come back is the Lion.
It would be a laugh but they'd most likely botch it. The existing primarchs only get away with their cringeworthy names and characterisation because they have so much history. If they dropped Justice Valourheart of the Emperor's Paladins or Vipus Snakeskin of the Sons of the Serpent on us out of the blue now we'd (rightfully) tear them to shreds, lol. Actually, now I'm going to start rooting for that. Lost primarch 2016!
casvalremdeikun wrote: The healing has always been characterized as wishful thinking on the part of the Ultramarines.
True but it's still there. Can be written with one paragraph that it wasn't just wishful thinking but reality. Stasis collapses, Guilliman opens eyes and hey presto.
He's never been dead for good so it doesn't even cause any real retconning like Iron hands or blood angel primarch would require. All it requires is that the "wishful thinking" was actually true after all.
Compared to what they did with phoenix crown in fantasy it's insignificant change if it's change at all.
The Thousand Sons are a powerful, but elite, force on the battlefield, and creating an army of them and using it effectively in games can be a challenge. When you get it right, however, the scions of lost Prospero can take control of a game through lethal, focused firepower and utter domination of the Psychic phase.
The lore and history of the Thousand Sons provides many examples of great inspiration for how you could collect an army of these rubric-damned traitors. Here, we’ve picked out a few easy ways you could go about it that both fit the rich narrative of the Legion and also get you a force that is none-too-shabby in the game.
An unaffiliated Chaos Space Marines armies can still use all the new Thousand Sons units, but by creating a purely Thousand Sons force, you get a selection of enviable bonuses, and this applies to any Formation or Detachment. This means that the ever-popular Combined Arms build is an option. So long as you meet the requirements of a Thousand Sons Detachment, your Rubric Marines backed up by Tzaangors troop options can take full advantage of the Objective Secured rule to claim objectives, while also getting the Blessing of Tzeentch, Blood Feud, and Legacy of the Rubricae rules (find out what these do in Wrath of Magnus) for being a Thousand Sons Detachment.
Ahriman makes a perfect warlord for these infantry-heavy armies, allowing units to Infiltrate as a way of compensating for their lack of natural speed. 20 Rubric Marines in their deployment zone on turn one is not something any enemy wants to have to deal with.
Each Exalted Sorcerer is the lord of a Silver Tower, and this makes for a great theme to build an army around.
While the Thousand Sons are usually an elite force, they are also versatile enough that, if you like, you can still get quite a few models on the battlefield, thanks to 7pt Tzaangors (8 with an autopistol). This is really handy if you want to spend a lot of your points on powerful psykers, but still want the man-power (gor-power?) to go and hold objectives. In this case, we’d suggest that building an army around some of the smaller Formations in the new book – such as the War Coven and Tzaangor Warherd – is the way to go, as both Exalted Sorcerers and Tzaangors are at their best in these.
The Sons of Magnus Detachment is the best way to play a Thousand Sons army in any kind of larger game. Formed of several (all pretty useful) Formations, it further bolsters the psychic power of the warriors within.
It doesn’t take the all-seeing Eye of Tzeentch to know that, in really big games, you want Magnus in your corner. He is utterly dominating in the psychic phase, and a match for most anything in combat, provided you have the right powers in play. There are a few options for how to get him into this Detachment, but we like the Sekhmet Conclave best – formed of Magnus (or one of his chief lieutenants) and Scarab Occult Terminators – because it raises him to a potential Toughness 8. This takes the Daemon Primarch beyond the damage of bolters and most Space Marines guns, and means that popular Strength 6 weapons (we’re looking at you, Eldar) will only wound on 6’s, halving their effectiveness against him.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lady Atia posted up some preview pictures from Wrath of Magnus of Thousand Sons color schemes.
Spoilered two samples so that the images don't just sneak up on people.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?
Points costs have been adjusted by FAQ's before. The Final draft of the Eldar codex FAQ has yet to be released. Maybe if we wish hard enough, they will make Scatter lasers 20ppm (double what they are now) for Windriders. That is the easiest fix.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.
There are some potentially competetive lists: sorcerors and pink horrors could make up the majority of your list with a couple of rubrics mixed in.
Ahriman as your warlord would allow you to infiltrate your rubrics forward and decimate any armoured infintry your opponant has with ap3, soul blaze bolters and flamers. Your sorcerors and pink horrors can then summon tons of WC on your first turn.
It comes round to their turn: they have the option of shooting a 3+/4++(3++ if you bless them) unit with infantry munching weapons or they can try to destroy some of the WC batteries you have created (which spawn more WC when killed).
Back to your turn: you have enough WC to start hammering their bigger models.
The new TS gives you reliable control of the psychic phase and a glass cannon in the form of rubric who will either burn through tons of infantry or be a massive waste of points, it will vary from game to game.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.
Competitive? No, I don't think it will be able to compete with the Gladius, Eldar and other top table armies at this point. The army is shaping up to be plenty viable though right now it appears to be very distinctly middle of the pack. As I've mentioned before, due to the uniqueness of the psychic phase in this case, I think we'll a bit more time to really figure out where it stands. I am upset about Rubrics still being 5 PPM overpriced.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?
Points costs have been adjusted by FAQ's before. The Final draft of the Eldar codex FAQ has yet to be released. Maybe if we wish hard enough, they will make Scatter lasers 20ppm (double what they are now) for Windriders. That is the easiest fix.
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Again, then you get arguments about whether or not people "have" to use FAQs/Erratas.
The simplest fix would be to release a new Eldar codex, with the Scatter Lasers bumped up in price. But even then you'll get people arguing "I don't have to buy the new Eldar book, I can just use the old one! All it did was change Scatter Lasers in cost!".
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
I'm more incensed that none of what they wrote is true and that the army is still shaping up to be neither competetive or viable.
Competitive? No, I don't think it will be able to compete with the Gladius, Eldar and other top table armies at this point. The army is shaping up to be plenty viable though right now it appears to be very distinctly middle of the pack. As I've mentioned before, due to the uniqueness of the psychic phase in this case, I think we'll a bit more time to really figure out where it stands. I am upset about Rubrics still being 5 PPM overpriced.
Sasori, you always are the voice of wisdom. This is not a beginners army.
It will take forward thinking, versatility and evolving strategies based on how your psychic phase goes.
If folks want a stand a shoot army play necrons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the recent article on warhammer TV about how to play the army is right on.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Am I the only one incensed that they are pointing out how unbalanced the eldar scatbikes are instead of fixing the friggin things?
How exactly do they fix them, with no arguments being able to be made for or against using an FAQ/Errata, without bringing out a new Codex?
Points costs have been adjusted by FAQ's before. The Final draft of the Eldar codex FAQ has yet to be released. Maybe if we wish hard enough, they will make Scatter lasers 20ppm (double what they are now) for Windriders. That is the easiest fix.
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Again, then you get arguments about whether or not people "have" to use FAQs/Erratas.
The simplest fix would be to release a new Eldar codex, with the Scatter Lasers bumped up in price. But even then you'll get people arguing "I don't have to buy the new Eldar book, I can just use the old one! All it did was change Scatter Lasers in cost!".
If somebody is bound and determined not to use the rules, then there's really nothing you can do but not play against them. And I've literally never heard of anyone doing the latter. Like, ever.
I mean, there are good arguments against bringing out another Eldar codex just to adjust the point cost of one model (like that being a crazy waste of resources), but "people won't use it" isn't really one of them.
Requizen wrote: So when are those Traitor Legions leaks coming?
Leaks should be hitting any day now.
THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID LAST WEEK! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED IIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT!
Seriously, preorders are Saturday and none of the people who currently have the book have leaked anything. I expect there to be an explosion of info when the preorder drops and the reviews come out.
SonsofVulkan wrote: I'm really only interested in the Command formation "Omniscient Oracles", Fatey, 1-3 LoC. I wish it can be a part of the Daemonic incursion detachment
Even without being part of the Incursion, it probably will replace many Tetrads for several reasons A) it doesn't require 4 FMCs, so if you just wanna do 3 it's more flexible and less expensive B) All Tzeentch is probably better that 1 of each C) LoC are always T6, even if you lose a model, making LoC have more durability than DPs. Plud they have more wounds D) It has Fateweaver
I could go on, but you get the point
Honestly a Omniscient Oracles formation with FW + 3 LoCs will be cheaper than an average Tetrad and may allow a decent Warpflame Host Incursion That list is terrifying.
I can't blame the people holding review copies, it's really good that that is a thing (how do you go about getting those?). I wouldn't want them to spoil anyhting beyond what they are allowed. But I'm disapointed in the rogue elements not having any kind of insight at all XD
Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
His dataslate page got leaked and has a 4+ in the statline.
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
I don't see why he couldn't have a 4+ even if he doesn't have wargear that specifically gives him it. Nothing in his wargear makes him his WS/BS/T/I
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
His profile gives him an armor save of 4+.
"Nothing in his wargear gives him an armor save" isn't a thing.
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
he has both 4+ armor and 4+ invuln before any formations granting bonuses.
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Roknar wrote: I can't blame the people holding review copies, it's really good that that is a thing (how do you go about getting those?). I wouldn't want them to spoil anyhting beyond what they are allowed. But I'm disapointed in the rogue elements not having any kind of insight at all XD
My review will go up tomorrow night after pre-orders go live in the East. Sorry, but it's just not worth jeopardizing my relationship with GW and breaking my agreement. Some do and pics get leaked, but I'm sure you understand why we (I at least) stick to the rules.
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
His profile gives him an armor save of 4+.
"Nothing in his wargear gives him an armor save" isn't a thing.
I have never come across a model that has an armour save that doesn't have wargear or a special rule that gives it to them, just seems strange. :/
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
His profile gives him an armor save of 4+.
"Nothing in his wargear gives him an armor save" isn't a thing.
I have never come across a model that has an armour save that doesn't have wargear or a special rule that gives it to them, just seems strange. :/
Do you not own any modern Codex? Very few of them list any sort of armour in their wargear. Codex Space Marines is an example of that.
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
His profile gives him an armor save of 4+.
"Nothing in his wargear gives him an armor save" isn't a thing.
I have never come across a model that has an armour save that doesn't have wargear or a special rule that gives it to them, just seems strange. :/
I have never come across a model that has an armour save that doesn't have wargear or a special rule that gives it to them, just seems strange. :/
Check most of the Necron codex. Warriors have a 4+, yet the only wargear the have is their guns, same with Immortals with their 3+.
I think Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers & Fleshhounds have a 6+ on their profile, but no wargear giving them that.
It used to be incredibly common for models to simply have an armour save, but no wargear granting it. It is only the last 2 editions that unit entries have spammed wargear the grant armour saves.
Do you not own any modern Codex? Very few of them list any sort of armour in their wargear. Codex Space Marines is an example of that.
While I agree with your point, most of the modern codices do in fact have wargear armour save. Certainly all of the loyalist Marines, Eldar, heck even Dark Eldar which have pathetic saves have wargear or special rules granting those.
Gw was smart when giving him that 4+ armor save. They knew it was a middle finger to their poster boy loyalists and their grav and did it anyway. Thumbs up gw!
Do you not own any modern Codex? Very few of them list any sort of armour in their wargear. Codex Space Marines is an example of that.
While I agree with your point, most of the modern codices do in fact have wargear armour save. Certainly all of the loyalist Marines, Eldar, heck even Dark Eldar which have pathetic saves have wargear or special rules granting those.
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They have wargear listed in the Armory section, but not in, say, the Tactical Marine's wargear.
mrhappyface wrote: Can someone confirm if Magnus has a 4+ armour save or is it just the 4+ invul? Some people are saying he has a 4+ armour because it says save: 4+ but nothing in his wargear gives him an armour save.
he has both 4+ armor and 4+ invuln before any formations granting bonuses.
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Roknar wrote: I can't blame the people holding review copies, it's really good that that is a thing (how do you go about getting those?). I wouldn't want them to spoil anyhting beyond what they are allowed. But I'm disapointed in the rogue elements not having any kind of insight at all XD
My review will go up tomorrow night after pre-orders go live in the East. Sorry, but it's just not worth jeopardizing my relationship with GW and breaking my agreement. Some do and pics get leaked, but I'm sure you understand why we (I at least) stick to the rules.
No need to apologize. Like I said, I'd rather you honor your agreement with GW.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't read leaks from other less reputable sources though
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captyn_Bob wrote: Guh. Exalted sorcerors can only take force staves. Dull.
Yea, some of their options or rather lack thereof seem puzzling.
They don't even have access to melee weapons, so you can't give them a claw or anything. No melta bombs and sadly no terminator armour....while the lower ranking generic sorcerer do.
They're kind of a mixed bag.
I don't have the book, I'm simply a messenger that works a desk job and has a lot of time to catch the leaks from all over as they show up. Sorry, nerds!
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Gw was smart when giving him that 4+ armor save. They knew it was a middle finger to their poster boy loyalists and their grav and did it anyway. Thumbs up gw!
Why is giving a 4+ armor save a middle finger to poster boy loyalists when giving him NO armor save would be even more effective at making Grav less powerful without really affecting Magnus' durability?
Ah yea, thanks for sharing. I missed that in my dissapointment
@Roknar what do you want to know? The demons portion I'll pull in spoiler here to start.
Spoiler:
Demons
Also 3 alter of war, 6 new fluffy tactical objectives, a new Tzeentch warp storm chart if your warlord is in the primary detachment (like TS model for creating a battle-forged army above)
Pink Horrors here replace the ones from the Demons codex. 90 for 10, up to 20 (9 pts/each). 1 is iridescent horror who can take 20 pts of rewards combination) and take choice of icons and icon upgrades
Blue (50pts for 10) and brimstone horrors (30 pts for 10) have been added as units. Pink horrors die and split into 2 blue which die and split into brimstones if you have them. An awesome return to the game! One formation even doubles the amount of horrors spawned from their colorful kin. Horrors use Change discipline.
-contains new loci, transmogrification in this book replaces the one from the demons codex because horrors split differently now. Demons of Tzeentch can be demon of tzeentch detachments. Pink horrors can carry new icons as well.
-You make a Pandemoniad of Tzeentch as your primary detachment but for warlord traits you need WF 1: Curse of the Wulfen.
the Pandemoniad gives you 1 better invuln save to a max 3+ and you can reroll the warlord trait (from WF1) AND the tzeentch warp storm table.
Same as a GC in format.
-1+ Core - Warpflame Host, Lorestealer Host
-0-3 Command - Lord of Pandemonium or Omniscient Oracles (Kairos plus more Lords of Change to help the blind bastard actually see the present, lol!)
-1+ aux -[this is where the rest of your demons of tzeentch come in] Agents of Tzeentch, Forgehost (soul grinders), Burning Skyhost, Brimstone Conflaguraions and Groups of Heralds.
Galef wrote:Check most of the Necron codex. Warriors have a 4+, yet the only wargear the have is their guns, same with Immortals with their 3+.
I think Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers & Fleshhounds have a 6+ on their profile, but no wargear giving them that.
It used to be incredibly common for models to simply have an armour save, but no wargear granting it. It is only the last 2 editions that unit entries have spammed wargear the grant armour saves.
Ah yes, I forgot about Khorne Daemon 'fluff armour' of a 6+ since it is never actually used in game.
TBH I was thinking about the CSM codex (seeing as though I'll be getting out for games again soon) and I couldn't think of any units in there with an armour save and no armour wargear.
It's worth noting the new Daemon detachment appears to REMOVE the rerolls of 1s to saves. So... it's worse than the normal one, with an arguably better warpstorm stable.
Well, what DON'T I want to know lol. It's only like the biggest news since our 3.5 dex XD. However there is one thing you might be able to answer since it's not really a spoiler.
How does Traitor Legions affect the Black Legion supplement? One would imagine that the new supplement invalidates the existing one?
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Gw was smart when giving him that 4+ armor save. They knew it was a middle finger to their poster boy loyalists and their grav and did it anyway. Thumbs up gw!
Why is giving a 4+ armor save a middle finger to poster boy loyalists when giving him NO armor save would be even more effective at making Grav less powerful without really affecting Magnus' durability?
With something like him they aren't going to assume he has NO armor, and gw seems to like to put an armor save on most things that have some form
Of armor. So, with a 4+ (and yes he is flying so it doesn't even matter to an extent) is showing just how much harder it'll be to wound him win grav. They could of easily given him a 2 or 3 plus because "primarch" and chose not too
Cephalobeard wrote: Why would it invalidate it? The black legion is the black legion, the thousand sons are the thousand sons, etc.
And that would not be the case with Black Legion. You'd have Black Legion rules in their supplement and in the traior legion supplement, which have different rules (presumably). Tsons has a different system on how to make a TSons detachment and I think it's safe to assume that Traitor Legions will follow that, including the Traitor Legion version of Black Legion.
Thanks for the pictures Cephalobeard, saw some things that I really like;
- Seer's Bane apparently counts as S10 against T, so will ID everything with T5 or less!
- Exalted Sorcerers are awesome. For 40 pts over a regular CSM Sorcerer with similar wargear they gain; +1BS, +1W, +1I, +1A, Fearless, Inferno ammo for their pistol and Coruscating Beam. Easily worth the cost in my opinion. I'm also relieved that they have access to Spell Familiars and Giftof Mutation. Can't wait to try out my Exalted Sorcerer with Biomancy, Seer's Bane and Disc of Tzeentch.
- Occult Terminator Sorcerer having access to 11 disciplines, lots of variety offered.
- Occult Terminators being able to have 2 Hellfyre Missile Racks and 2 Soulreaper Cannons (or Heavy Warpflamers) in a 10 man unit, or one of each at 5 man is awesome.
- Tzaangors 'Relic Hunters' rule made me chuckle. It's not an amazing rule, but it's fun and fluffy.
Captyn_Bob wrote: Guh. Exalted sorcerors can only take force staves. Dull.
Give him Seer's Bane and watch him go to town on ...well anything really.
Cephalobeard wrote: It doesn't invalidate it, they're simply different detachments.
On second thought. They're going to copy all the formations from the supplement because why wouldn't they? Same for the relics and warlord traits and objectives.
Except they will become generic csm formations where you have to obey the new requirement lists.
The only thing to change is how to make a csm detachment a black legion detachment and they should hopefully gain different special rules.
So there should be no incentive to draw from the old supplement as opposed to the new detachment. Invalidated or not.
Don't know y people don't like the larger models. I think they are much more impressive looking and leaves so much more room.for modifications, resculpt, freehand,etc.
Roknar wrote: Wow, that heralds anarchic seems really good. That essentially gives them a free pseudo mastery level, which are what? 25 points normally?
Same as a GC in format.
-1+ Core - Lorestealer Host CHEAP!!! -0-3 Command - Omniscient Oracles MAX out the LoC! -1+ aux -[this is where the rest of your demons of tzeentch come in] Agents of Tzeentch, Forgehost (soul grinders), Burning Skyhost, Brimstone Conflaguraions and Groups of Heralds.
Cephalobeard wrote: Why would it invalidate it? The black legion is the black legion, the thousand sons are the thousand sons, etc.
GW isn't much in invalidating. You can for example still use greentide from first ghazkhul supplement despite same supplement getting redone without it...
These aren't even new version of old supplement but new supplement alongside.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
StarFyre wrote: Don't know y people don't like the larger models. I think they are much more impressive looking and leaves so much more room.for modifications, resculpt, freehand,etc.
Well for one thing they make boards too crowded. They occupy too much space thus driving everything into smaller space and reducing movement room=less room for tactics.
Galef wrote: My Tetrad is very sad now, as it may be replace with an Omniscient Oracles formation.
Is it that much of a points difference between the two formation?
If you take 3 Lords of Change it is about 50+pts cheaper for more total wounds, all the FMCs re-roll 1's on their saves and the don't lose the T6 if one dies.
Plus guaranteed Str8 on all the LoCs and re-rolling all To hit & wound rolls.
But since you can take only 2 if you want, it opens up SOOOOO many more possibilities.
Galef wrote: My Tetrad is very sad now, as it may be replace with an Omniscient Oracles formation.
Is it that much of a points difference between the two formation?
If you take 3 Lords of Change it is about 50+pts cheaper for more total wounds, all the FMCs re-roll 1's on their saves and the don't lose the T6 if one dies.
Plus guaranteed Str8 on all the LoCs and re-rolling all To hit & wound rolls.
But since you can take only 2 if you want, it opens up SOOOOO many more possibilities.
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I personally wouldn't take that many LoCs, because they only know divination, malefic and change disciplines. Only reason DPs are a better flying shooting platform is because of guarantee shriek and can fish for invis if needed.
But having one LoC with impossible robe is great tho, you can keep him on the ground and use him as a durable beat stick while summoning daemons. Having a second one on the ground might be risky tho since you will need another IC to carry grim to keep him alive. And if you keep him in the air to shoot...I'm not too impress with all the change spells aside from prismatic gaze since a few bad S D6 rolls can ruin some of the spells.
Cephalobeard wrote: It's a shame the LOC can only take one relic, otherwise a grounded LOC with Impossible robes + a weapon would compliment Magnus very nicely.
Couldn't you take a cheap CAD with Magnus + Omniscient Oracles?
Cephalobeard wrote: It's a shame the LOC can only take one relic, otherwise a grounded LOC with Impossible robes + a weapon would compliment Magnus very nicely.
Couldn't you take a cheap CAD with Magnus + Omniscient Oracles?
Easily. In fact, I intend to take a Cad with Magnus and a FULL Omniscient Oracle formation. It's less than 1850.
Cephalobeard wrote: It's a shame the LOC can only take one relic, otherwise a grounded LOC with Impossible robes + a weapon would compliment Magnus very nicely.
Couldn't you take a cheap CAD with Magnus + Omniscient Oracles?
100pt HQ - I don't know what? 10 Tzaangors 10 Tzaangors Magnus
Fateweaver LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Robes LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Paradox -----------------------------------------------------------------------------1850pts
Not sure how you can get a "Full" Oracles formation + Magnus at 1850. -
Cephalobeard wrote: It's a shame the LOC can only take one relic, otherwise a grounded LOC with Impossible robes + a weapon would compliment Magnus very nicely.
Couldn't you take a cheap CAD with Magnus + Omniscient Oracles?
100pt HQ - I don't know what?
10 Tzaangors
10 Tzaangors
Magnus
Fateweaver
LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Robes
LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Paradox
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------1850pts
Not sure how you can get a "Full" Oracles formation + Magnus at 1850.
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Cephalobeard wrote: It's a shame the LOC can only take one relic, otherwise a grounded LOC with Impossible robes + a weapon would compliment Magnus very nicely.
Couldn't you take a cheap CAD with Magnus + Omniscient Oracles?
100pt HQ - I don't know what?
10 Tzaangors
10 Tzaangors
Magnus
Fateweaver
LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Robes
LoC with ML3, 2x greater reward, 1 Staff, Paradox
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------1850pts
Not sure how you can get a "Full" Oracles formation + Magnus at 1850.
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Perhaps I misquoted. However, I don't know if I would go full greater rewards on all of them etc.
However, I don't know if I would go full greater rewards on all of them etc.
You should. It can mean the difference between living an extra turn or being an easy target. Besides, dropping the rewards off 2 of them isn't going to get you the points for a 3rd, nor is a 3rd LoC advisable. One gets Robes, the other Paradox. That's all you need.
demons objectives
1 VP if you successfully manifest a blessing in your turn
Roll D6 when this objective is generated. and again in each of your following turns. Score 1Vp if you take that corresponding obj this turn
D3 VP at end of turn if successfully manifest conjuration, or at least 3 Tz demons units arrived on battlefield in your turn via deepstrike
D3 VP at end of turn if your opponent controlled more obj than you at start of the turn but you ended turn with more than him
1Vp if you manifested 1 or 2 psy powers in your turn; D3 if 3-8 powers; D3+3 if 9 or more powers in turn
where are you seeing Blessing of Tzeentch special rule? so much content...
mrhappyface wrote: Isn't that the name of the rule that gives units with VotLW +1 invul when targrted by blessings or am I being an idiot? :/
Oh yeah, the building CSM army page. Sorry, dancing between this book, Traitor's Hate, CSM codex and Traitor Legions today. "If a unit with the VotLW special rule is affected by a blessing their invulnerable save is improved by 1 until the start of your next Psychic phase."
Alpharius wrote: I suppose I haven't been paying too much attention to GW lately but...$40 for a plastic Ahriman?
Ouch!
$28 if they had allowed you to buy it from the UK....
er isnt that EUROs lol? wouldnt the exchange rate be about the same
We're paying £25.oo GB over here which is $31.99. US However unless it's part of a big order you'd have to pay the shipping charge which would be about £6.00 GB Whish Would be $7.55 US. So you would only save yourself 69 cents at best.
mrhappyface wrote: Isn't that the name of the rule that gives units with VotLW +1 invul when targrted by blessings or am I being an idiot? :/
Oh yeah, the building CSM army page. Sorry, dancing between this book, Traitor's Hate, CSM codex and Traitor Legions today. "If a unit with the VotLW special rule is affected by a blessing their invulnerable save is improved by 1 until the start of your next Psychic phase."
VeteranNoob wrote: Oh yeah, the building CSM army page. Sorry, dancing between this book, Traitor's Hate, CSM codex and Traitor Legions today.
VeteranNoob wrote: this book, Traitor's Hate, CSM codex and Traitor Legions today.
I've been ranting with my buddy about this new book and he got this argument that despite there is a whole new 9 legion - every one of them have a 2 uniqe Faction rules, another 2-3 rules for their uniqe detachments and every one have a 6 relics (so if we do the math it's something about 99 NEW rules) he says that there can't be so many new rules - and there must be some duplicates.
So my question to you - is there any duplicate rules for this 9 legions?
Basicly i just want to know - is that truth that there is a 9 uniqe legions with rules or there is some pattern that is just slightly differentiates)
He can't tell you ...yet. That only makes it worse knowing he's reading the supplement right now while we're left imagining lol So close to leaks and yet so far. *waves fist angrily at the dark gods in impotence*
Roknar wrote: He can't tell you ...yet. That only makes it worse knowing he's reading the supplement right now while we're left imagining lol So close to leaks and yet so far. *waves fist angrily at the dark gods in impotence*
But... that wouldn't count for leaks)
It's just some kind of verification that I would really get what already been posted by GW)
That would suck if there is a lot of duplicates :/
I heard some people compare it to Angels of Death. Apperantly that reshuffled a lot of formations from previous releases.
I could easily see that happening.
Every legion comes with a decurion, so what's likely to happen is that we see a few new formations, but mostly reshuffling of the traitor's hate formations.
With a few different rules for each decurion and rules for each legion on top of that. Although I'm not sure we'll get both.
I imagine just about every legion will have a chaos warband for example. And I'd expect to see maelstrom of gore as a core choice for world eaters.
TSons detachments have 1 new rule and one fluffy rule to hate wolves. I expect that patttern to occur a few more times.
With relics it would easily reach 99. Just relics alone is 42 new ones since we already have TSons and Black Legion.
It's really hard to put a number on new stuff, but we're getting plenty of new stuff. Though obviously not equally impactful.
Extra Hatred vs space wolves is...cute. Fluffy and good when you do get into a fight but most of the time useless.
I can see a lot of relics being similar, but not identical. 2-3 melee weapons, a ranged weapon, an armor or other defense, something specific to a warpsmith or dark apostle or sorcerer, and 1-2 oddball.
Daedalus81 wrote: So, from the looks of it I can't take raptors / talons in pure thousand sons force?
Why not? They can be Tzeentch-marked. If you're talking in the Decurion then yes, but you can in a CAD, far as I can tell.
Adding in a CAD with a Exalted Sorcerer, a pair of Rubric Marine squads, and some Raptors or Warp Talons would be a nice way to accomplish that. Though Raptors and Warp Talons aren't exactly all that fluffy, IMO. But the addition of some Objective Secured Rubric Marines certainly couldn't hurt, especially since they would still get a lot of the benefits of the Thousand Sons.
Having lost contact with the regiment’s sniper platoon*, you are being drafted in to replace them**. Full mission briefing will be at first light. For now, it is vital that you read this target acquisition and priority guide taken from the sniper’s handbook.
As a sniper, your role will be to identify and eliminate the warlords and commanders in the enemy army.
The Arch Enemy’s forces are disorganized and anarchic, making the identification of key enemy personnel tricky, but it is essential. You are not permitted to waste precious sniper rounds*** on rank and file troops.
1) Target’s helm is adorned with skulls
Particularly deranged individuals have an unhealthy fascination with skulls. Helpfully, though, these targets are easy to bait into a trap. Simply find a skull**** and leave it where you would like the target.
When the target stops to inspect the skull, you’ll have an easy shot. Distant targets of this nature can also be lured to the kill-spot by laying a long trail of skulls from their position to where you want them. To save on time, we’d suggest spacing the skulls about three strides apart.
2) Target is stood on a ‘disc’ and wields a primitive stick
Abnormally stupid, these so called sorcerers opt not to travel to battle in armoured vehicles but rather glide along on discs. Raised above the masses, they make easy targets for a skilled marksmen, and they sometimes travel in groups. Take them all out.
3) Target has wings and stands taller than three men
In their arrogance, some Chaos champions have opted to make themselves even easier to hit. Getting head shots on these lumbering brutes is a simple matter.*****
4) Target has ridiculous top-knot and oversized claw
You’ve spotted one of the leaders of the Black Legion – good job trooper.
Target this character with extreme prejudice. Note, hits on the topknot are unlikely to be fatal, so do still target the head.
That’s it for now trooper. We’ll see you at dawn.
Good hunting.
Thought for the Day:
‘Identify your target. Concentrate your fire on it to the exclusion of all else. When it is destroyed, choose another target. That is the way to secure victory!’
*For now, we are assuming they have just become exceptionally good at hiding.
**Unfortunately, while we do have spare bodies, namely you, we do not have any spare equipment. You will not be furnished with any specialist supplies. But…
***Good news! As our allocation of sniper rifles is still missing in action, along with the last squad, you can shoot at whomever you like as we have plenty of the standard rounds that your regular rifle uses.
****If this proves difficult, you are likely too far away from the war zone. Return immediately.
*****Note: some larger Chaos creatures have multiple heads. For best results – target them all simultaneously.
An Article on the regimental standard called "Slay the Warlord" i really like that silly dark humour that GW had in the 80's and 90's
I'm going to assume that those "close combat weapons" that the Tzaangors get as standard aren't chainswords? In which case, they're compatible with Age of Sigmar, right?
Quarterdime wrote: I'm going to assume that those "close combat weapons" that the Tzaangors get as standard aren't chainswords? In which case, they're compatible with Age of Sigmar, right?
The have a sprue of chainswords and pistols as well as their AoS weapons. They are usable in both game systems.
For the love of god I would be so happy if traitor legions just bundled all of the existing formations into a single book, slapped some legion-soecific additional rules on there and call it a day.
The amount of publications I need in order to play a game sometimes goes beyond ridiculous with all the books and dataslates and IA printouts I need to play all of my models.
Have to decide between Magnus and a bunch of horrors to get the skulls for my chaplain, or BaC for Tacticals 80-110, five more fulmentarii, a VV squad, and twenty bucks on paints or some stuff.
Slayer le boucher wrote: Particularly deranged individuals have an unhealthy fascination with skulls. Helpfully, though, these targets are easy to bait into a trap. Simply find a skull**** and leave it where you would like the target.
Golden!
Damn the regimental standard is good Best part of new releases tends to be regimental standard that accompanies them!
Do we get to see "Armory of the Thousand Sons" (meaning, "who can take what Relic?" ) or the Warlord Traits anytime soon? I want to see if it's technically possible to make a Psychic Walker with the Warpack :>
What do you mean? The armoury has been posted and the only new units that can take artefacts are the exalted sorcerers. So no psychic anything that isn't already a psyker.
Scarab Occult Terminators have terminator armor, not Tartaros terminator armor, so no sweeping advances. Sad face.
Exalted Sorcers can't take special issue war gear, so unless they get permission elsewhere, no jump pack exalted sorcerer, so one of the three sorcerers in the box is just a sorcerer.
I'm still pretty excited for this release. Just made up a few different 1000 point lists to try out. Looking forward to it!
Scarab Occult Terminators have terminator armor, not Tartaros terminator armor, so no sweeping advances. Sad face.
Exalted Sorcers can't take special issue war gear, so unless they get permission elsewhere, no jump pack exalted sorcerer, so one of the three sorcerers in the box is just a sorcerer.
I'm still pretty excited for this release. Just made up a few different 1000 point lists to try out. Looking forward to it!
I'm just an ork player, so I might be missing something, but do tzangors suck ASS?
They're like boyz, but more expensive, fewer attacks, no furious charge, somehow worse shooting than boyz, in that they have none, other than a S3 pistol for 1PPM, and nothing like mob rule to hold them in combat.
If they had the demon USR, they'd be ok, but all they've got is MoT.
And that would stack with a blessing to give them a 5++ but even with a 5++, they still seem like they'd get curbstomped by anything scarier in CC than a fire warrior.
Can you take cultists in 1K sons armies? Because they seem almost as good as tzangors for half the price, even having to buy them MoT.
Kap'n Krump wrote: I'm just an ork player, so I might be missing something, but do tzangors suck ASS?
They're like boyz, but more expensive, fewer attacks, no furious charge, somehow worse shooting than boyz, in that they have none, other than a S3 pistol for 1PPM, and nothing like mob rule to hold them in combat.
If they had the demon USR, they'd be ok, but all they've got is MoT.
And that would stack with a blessing to give them a 5++ but even with a 5++, they still seem like they'd get curbstomped by anything scarier in CC than a fire warrior.
Can you take cultists in 1K sons armies? Because they seem almost as good as tzangors for half the price, even having to buy them MoT.
Higher toughness, fleet, can run and charge and so forth.
I'm looking at their datasheet, and the only special rule I see is MoT and effectively hatred: enemy relics. No mention of fleet, run and charge, or anything else. They do have higher T than cultists, but that just makes them on par with an ork boy statline with none of the rules that makes boyz even marginally useful (furious charge, 'ere we go, mob rule).
Kap'n Krump wrote: I'm just an ork player, so I might be missing something, but do tzangors suck ASS?
They're like boyz, but more expensive, fewer attacks, no furious charge, somehow worse shooting than boyz, in that they have none, other than a S3 pistol for 1PPM, and nothing like mob rule to hold them in combat.
Tzaangors have +1 I and a 6++.
(Relic Hunters is a fluff-rule, it will very rarely, if ever happen.)
Orc Boyz are 1 point cheaper, have +1 A, +1 S on the charge, a slugga and Mob Rule.
Regular Tzaangors are inferior to Orc Boyz, but there's probably a "fodder-tax" on them, since a cheap fodder-unit is more unique in the Thousand Sons-army, than in the Orc-army.
I'd take Tzaangors over Cultists with Mark of Tzeentch any day though, +1 WS and +1 T for 1 point is well worth it.
There's also a formation for them which gives them some nifty bonuses, but I can't see myself ever using it.
I've ordered 20 Tzaangors, I'll use them as compulsory troops in my TSCAD.
Kap'n Krump wrote: I'm looking at their datasheet, and the only special rule I see is MoT and effectively hatred: enemy relics. No mention of fleet, run and charge, or anything else. They do have higher T than cultists, but that just makes them on par with an ork boy statline with none of the rules that makes boyz even marginally useful (furious charge, 'ere we go, mob rule).
Their formation gives them run and charge. IIRC, it also provides +1S and +1I if you charge more than 9", I don't remember seeing anything about fleet, though.
Well orks can't buff their boyz like Tsons can. That might have been factored in....probably not though.
Never mind that though, isn't it saturday somewhere in the world yet? I need ma leaks XD
Roknar wrote: Well orks can't buff their boyz like Tsons can. That might have been factored in....probably not though.
Never mind that though, isn't it saturday somewhere in the world yet? I need ma leaks XD
Roknar wrote: Well orks can't buff their boyz like Tsons can. That might have been factored in....probably not though.
Never mind that though, isn't it saturday somewhere in the world yet? I need ma leaks XD
Another 7 1/2 hours till GMT 0.
The question I want to know is if we will get leaks straight away or do I get to sleep tonight?
Kap'n Krump wrote: I'm looking at their datasheet, and the only special rule I see is MoT and effectively hatred: enemy relics. No mention of fleet, run and charge, or anything else. They do have higher T than cultists, but that just makes them on par with an ork boy statline with none of the rules that makes boyz even marginally useful (furious charge, 'ere we go, mob rule).
Their formation gives them run and charge. IIRC, it also provides +1S and +1I if you charge more than 9", I don't remember seeing anything about fleet, though.
Ok, that's something then, missed that. Still, depending on a 9" charge to get +1S is kind of a long shot. I suspect it would largely come down to buffing the crap out of them with blessings, which could be done, I suppose.
Roknar wrote: Well orks can't buff their boyz like Tsons can. That might have been factored in....probably not though.
Never mind that though, isn't it saturday somewhere in the world yet? I need ma leaks XD
Another 7 1/2 hours till GMT 0.
The question I want to know is if we will get leaks straight away or do I get to sleep tonight?
It was said that the reviews would drop as soon as the preorders went up.
Roknar wrote: Well orks can't buff their boyz like Tsons can. That might have been factored in....probably not though.
Never mind that though, isn't it saturday somewhere in the world yet? I need ma leaks XD
Another 7 1/2 hours till GMT 0.
The question I want to know is if we will get leaks straight away or do I get to sleep tonight?
It was said that the reviews would drop as soon as the preorders went up.
You should sleep and dream of the worst, that way when you wake up and it's only moderately bad (or, Emperor forbid, actually decent), you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Roknar wrote: I can't wait to hear what world eaters get. They could make for some delicious combos.
It would be sad if TS get a way to make troops move 12" but world eaters dom't.
If everything goes according to predictions, then they will have a maelstrom of gore, except now buffed by a more combat oriented decurion than traitors hate plus a bonus for being world eaters, plus whatever aretfacts they get....and then you can still ally in a TSons character with the jump relic to make them extra angry. And I plan to mix it with Black Legion for a proper Black Legion warband that's made of world eaters that have a bone to pick with marines.
I'd be happy with not taking gets hot. I give my zerker champs plasma pistols just because and both them and kharn eat a wound from them like every. damn. game lol
Whew, so much typing. Wish we could just post pics and give summary thoughts. I hope everyone appreciates how much timt and much work it takes to compose these detailed reviews
VeteranNoob wrote: Whew, so much typing. Wish we could just post pics and give summary thoughts. I hope everyone appreciates how little Mc and much work it takes to compose these detailed reviews
C'mon, man! Spill the beans! You're killing us here.
Ok. I literally JUST bought everything that came out today. I have one of each box. However, I need help making an army for them using ONLY the Wrath of Magnus book as it's the only one I have for an event in 2 weeks. This is a charity event where friends of players can donate and buy things like extra dice, re-rolls, extra warlord traits and stuff so this should be a lot of fun and for a good cause. But I'm not very good at making army lists in a short amount of time. Does anyone care to help or at least supply ideas?
Remember, I only have 1 of each box, and maybe the FW Abaddon 30k model lol.
Right now, I couldn't care less about wrath of magnus XD I'm sitting at the edge of my chair waiting for some leaks lol. It's been like groundhog day over here checking this thread over and over this week
Automatically Appended Next Post: @VeteranNoob: If you still have it in you, could check if there is some specific limitation to combine detachments? Right now it looks like you could have, say, a Black Legion Thousand Sons CAD.
Roknar wrote: Right now, I couldn't care less about wrath of magnus XD I'm sitting at the edge of my chair waiting for some leaks lol. It's been like groundhog day over here checking this thread over and over this week
Automatically Appended Next Post: @VeteranNoob: If you still have it in you, could check if there is some specific limitation to combine detachments? Right now it looks like you could have, say, a Black Legion Thousand Sons CAD.
I have the book in my lap right now. I think the only thing that would stop it is the wording that says "A Thousand Sons detachment may blah blah blah." And basic sanity, I guess.
Roknar wrote: Right now, I couldn't care less about wrath of magnus XD I'm sitting at the edge of my chair waiting for some leaks lol. It's been like groundhog day over here checking this thread over and over this week
Automatically Appended Next Post: @VeteranNoob: If you still have it in you, could check if there is some specific limitation to combine detachments? Right now it looks like you could have, say, a Black Legion Thousand Sons CAD.
I have the book in my lap right now. I think the only thing that would stop it is the wording that says "A Thousand Sons detachment may blah blah blah." And basic sanity, I guess.
Sanity and common sense aren't really a feature of GW Besides, it does make sense form a fluff perspective. It just doesn't feel quite right from a game mechanic perspective, but who knows.
I intend to send them a mail and ask on their facebook page if it doesn't go out its way to specifically limit this.
nintura wrote: Ok. I literally JUST bought everything that came out today. I have one of each box. However, I need help making an army for them using ONLY the Wrath of Magnus book as it's the only one I have for an event in 2 weeks. This is a charity event where friends of players can donate and buy things like extra dice, re-rolls, extra warlord traits and stuff so this should be a lot of fun and for a good cause. But I'm not very good at making army lists in a short amount of time. Does anyone care to help or at least supply ideas?
Remember, I only have 1 of each box, and maybe the FW Abaddon 30k model lol.
See if you can get hold of a Heldrake/Dinobot/Predator/Vindicator/Land Raider.
If so you can field a Grand Coven Detachment.
Core - War Cabal - Ahriman, 2 Exalted Sorcerers, Rubrics and Scarab Occult Terminators.
Aux - Your Dinobot/Tank
Command - 2 x Lord of the Legion (Magnus and the last Exalted Sorcerer).
Tada, using only 1 of each box released this weekend and WoM - you have an army.
nintura wrote: Ok. I literally JUST bought everything that came out today. I have one of each box. However, I need help making an army for them using ONLY the Wrath of Magnus book as it's the only one I have for an event in 2 weeks. This is a charity event where friends of players can donate and buy things like extra dice, re-rolls, extra warlord traits and stuff so this should be a lot of fun and for a good cause. But I'm not very good at making army lists in a short amount of time. Does anyone care to help or at least supply ideas?
Remember, I only have 1 of each box, and maybe the FW Abaddon 30k model lol.
See if you can get hold of a Heldrake/Dinobot/Predator/Vindicator/Land Raider.
If so you can field a Grand Coven Detachment.
Core - War Cabal - Ahriman, 2 Exalted Sorcerers, Rubrics and Scarab Occult Terminators.
Aux - Your Dinobot/Tank
Command - 2 x Lord of the Legion (Magnus and the last Exalted Sorcerer).
Tada, using only 1 of each box released this weekend and WoM - you have an army.
PM'd you.
*EDIT: This isn't possible within an 1850 army. Without the tank auxiliary, that comes up to 1835 lol.
nintura wrote: Ok. I literally JUST bought everything that came out today. I have one of each box. However, I need help making an army for them using ONLY the Wrath of Magnus book as it's the only one I have for an event in 2 weeks. This is a charity event where friends of players can donate and buy things like extra dice, re-rolls, extra warlord traits and stuff so this should be a lot of fun and for a good cause. But I'm not very good at making army lists in a short amount of time. Does anyone care to help or at least supply ideas?
Remember, I only have 1 of each box, and maybe the FW Abaddon 30k model lol.
See if you can get hold of a Heldrake/Dinobot/Predator/Vindicator/Land Raider.
If so you can field a Grand Coven Detachment.
Core - War Cabal - Ahriman, 2 Exalted Sorcerers, Rubrics and Scarab Occult Terminators.
Aux - Your Dinobot/Tank
Command - 2 x Lord of the Legion (Magnus and the last Exalted Sorcerer).
Tada, using only 1 of each box released this weekend and WoM - you have an army.
PM'd you.
*EDIT: This isn't possible within an 1850 army. Without the tank auxiliary, that comes up to 1835 lol.
Could you drop the last exalted sorcerer? Might that give you the points needed for the tank?
nintura wrote: Ok. I literally JUST bought everything that came out today. I have one of each box. However, I need help making an army for them using ONLY the Wrath of Magnus book as it's the only one I have for an event in 2 weeks. This is a charity event where friends of players can donate and buy things like extra dice, re-rolls, extra warlord traits and stuff so this should be a lot of fun and for a good cause. But I'm not very good at making army lists in a short amount of time. Does anyone care to help or at least supply ideas?
Remember, I only have 1 of each box, and maybe the FW Abaddon 30k model lol.
See if you can get hold of a Heldrake/Dinobot/Predator/Vindicator/Land Raider.
If so you can field a Grand Coven Detachment.
Core - War Cabal - Ahriman, 2 Exalted Sorcerers, Rubrics and Scarab Occult Terminators.
Aux - Your Dinobot/Tank
Command - 2 x Lord of the Legion (Magnus and the last Exalted Sorcerer).
Tada, using only 1 of each box released this weekend and WoM - you have an army.
PM'd you.
*EDIT: This isn't possible within an 1850 army. Without the tank auxiliary, that comes up to 1835 lol.
Could you drop the last exalted sorcerer? Might that give you the points needed for the tank?
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
I'll add this here until we get the review copy leaks:
In The Book
- Datasheets for the following models:
- Kharn the Betrayer
- Ahriman
- Exalted Sorcerer
- Tzaangors
- Rubric Marines
- Scarab Occult Terminators
- Khorne Lord of Skulls
- Magnus the Red
- 26 Formations for Chaos Space Marines
- Chaos Warband
- Maelstrom of Gore
- The Lost and the Damned
- Helforged Warpack
- Heldrake Terror Pack
- Cult of Destruction
- Fist of the Gods
- Raptor Talon
- Terminator Annihilation Force
- Favoured of Chaos
- Trinity of Blood
- The Chosen of Abaddon
- The Bringers of Despair
- The Hounds of Abaddon
- Daemon Engine Pack
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband
- War Cabal
- War Coven
- Tzaangor Warherd
- Sekhmet Conclave
- Ahriman’s Exiles
- Rehati War Sect
- Plague Colony
- Kakophoni;
- Chaos Artefacts, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and an exclusive Detachment for each of the 9 Traitor Legions;
- Updated Disciplines of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, as well as the Sinistrum, Heretech, Ectomancy and Geomortis Psychic Disciplines;
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
Spoilers - there's a chap called Magnus and he's rather wrathful.
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
Spoilers - there's a chap called Magnus and he's rather wrathful.
Roknar wrote: I'll add this here until we get the review copy leaks:
In The Book
- Datasheets for the following models:
- Kharn the Betrayer
- Ahriman
- Exalted Sorcerer
- Tzaangors
- Rubric Marines
- Scarab Occult Terminators
- Khorne Lord of Skulls
- Magnus the Red
- 26 Formations for Chaos Space Marines
- Chaos Warband
- Maelstrom of Gore
- The Lost and the Damned
- Helforged Warpack
- Heldrake Terror Pack
- Cult of Destruction
- Fist of the Gods
- Raptor Talon
- Terminator Annihilation Force
- Favoured of Chaos
- Trinity of Blood
- The Chosen of Abaddon
- The Bringers of Despair
- The Hounds of Abaddon
- Daemon Engine Pack
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband
- War Cabal
- War Coven
- Tzaangor Warherd
- Sekhmet Conclave
- Ahriman’s Exiles
- Rehati War Sect
- Plague Colony
- Kakophoni;
- Chaos Artefacts, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and an exclusive Detachment for each of the 9 Traitor Legions;
- Updated Disciplines of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, as well as the Sinistrum, Heretech, Ectomancy and Geomortis Psychic Disciplines;
- Armoury of the Chaos Space Marines.
So only two new formations?
I can only hope they've tweaked the previous formations to not have Warpsmith taxes up the Wazoo.
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
Spoilers - there's a chap called Magnus and he's rather wrathful.
Yeah on first glance this looks worrisome. Aren't these just copy-pastes of the Traitor's Hate stuff? (obviously more than that is listed.. but there is serious overlap here...)
rollawaythestone wrote: Yeah on first glance this looks worrisome. Aren't these just copy-pastes of the Traitor's Hate stuff? (obviously more than that is listed.. but there is serious overlap here...)
I care more about relics and other special rules than formations.
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
Spoilers - there's a chap called Magnus and he's rather wrathful.
hehe.
I hope they give world eaters something decent. All other gods got updated after all. And daemonkin is no replacement for world eaters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rollawaythestone wrote: Yeah on first glance this looks worrisome. Aren't these just copy-pastes of the Traitor's Hate stuff? (obviously more than that is listed.. but there is serious overlap here...)
They copy pasted all of traitors hate minus the knight, like literally all of it from the looks.
They also copied all of the Black Legion formations and the TSons formations. It looks like all is not remotely equal among the legions.
rollawaythestone wrote: Yeah on first glance this looks worrisome. Aren't these just copy-pastes of the Traitor's Hate stuff? (obviously more than that is listed.. but there is serious overlap here...)
They copy pasted all of traitors hate minus the knight, like literally all of it from the looks. They also copied all of the Black Legion formations and the TSons formations. It looks like all is not remotely equal among the legions.
Disappointing. Guess we should have expected that.
Roknar wrote: I'll add this here until we get the review copy leaks:
In The Book
- Datasheets for the following models:
- Kharn the Betrayer
- Ahriman
- Exalted Sorcerer
- Tzaangors
- Rubric Marines
- Scarab Occult Terminators
- Khorne Lord of Skulls
- Magnus the Red
- 26 Formations for Chaos Space Marines
- Chaos Warband
- Maelstrom of Gore
- The Lost and the Damned
- Helforged Warpack
- Heldrake Terror Pack
- Cult of Destruction
- Fist of the Gods
- Raptor Talon
- Terminator Annihilation Force
- Favoured of Chaos
- Trinity of Blood
- The Chosen of Abaddon
- The Bringers of Despair
- The Hounds of Abaddon
- Daemon Engine Pack
- Cyclopia Cabal
- The Tormented
- Black Legion Warband
- War Cabal
- War Coven
- Tzaangor Warherd
- Sekhmet Conclave
- Ahriman’s Exiles
- Rehati War Sect
- Plague Colony
- Kakophoni;
- Chaos Artefacts, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and an exclusive Detachment for each of the 9 Traitor Legions;
- Updated Disciplines of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, as well as the Sinistrum, Heretech, Ectomancy and Geomortis Psychic Disciplines;
- Armoury of the Chaos Space Marines.
So only two new formations?
I can only hope they've tweaked the previous formations to not have Warpsmith taxes up the Wazoo.
If it's anything like angels of death it will just be a copy paste. Even with the new CT rules (hope to all chaos they don't blow) for the legions their decurions are going to look pretty limited outside of Black Legion and Thousand Sons and much like the traitor's hate supplement.
The supplement essentially looks like an ombinus of wrath of magnus, traitors hate, and the black legion supplement. I guess people were complaining about too many books earlier in the thread.
I look at the "copy/paste" aspect of Traitors Legion as a blessing for players. It basically means that a new player only needs the CSM codex and the Legions book, rather than both of those + Traitor's hate & WoM. If the Agents of the Imperium indeed consolidates the rules for Assassins, Inquisition, Sisters, Custodes, etc than it would be a great step forward for GW and point to a less bloated direction on their part.
I was hoping that all of the legions would get at least one unique formation. This is pretty sad in terms of formations, but at least we'll get tailored decurions and legion rules. It could still be a good book overall. Just the formations part is kinda lame.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galef wrote: I look at the "copy/paste" aspect of Traitors Legion as a blessing for new players. It basically means that a new player only needs the CSM codex and the Legions book, rather than both of those + Traitor's hate & WoM.
If the Agents of the Imperium indeed consolidates the rules for Assassins, Inquisition, Sisters, Custodes, etc than it would be a great step forward for GW and point to a less bloated direction on their part.
Yea, it's good to have them all in one place. It wouldn't have killed them though to give each legion a unique formation. Well other than BL and TSons that is.
Right now it looks like BL and TSons get all the col stuff and the rest get the scraps and have to make due with traitor's hate.
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
Spoilers - there's a chap called Magnus and he's rather wrathful.
hehe.
I hope they give world eaters something decent. All other gods got updated after all. And daemonkin is no replacement for world eaters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rollawaythestone wrote: Yeah on first glance this looks worrisome. Aren't these just copy-pastes of the Traitor's Hate stuff? (obviously more than that is listed.. but there is serious overlap here...)
They copy pasted all of traitors hate minus the knight, like literally all of it from the looks.
They also copied all of the Black Legion formations and the TSons formations. It looks like all is not remotely equal among the legions.
Keep in mind, Angels of Death didn't include any new formations, either. It was a compilation of existing formations along with detachments that had previously been scattered among different source books. If I remember right, only two of the detachments in the book were actually new: the Salamanders detachment and the vehicle-heavy detachment (can't actually remember the name). I expect this to be largely similar. A lot of previously-released formations form different Chaos Space Marine supplements plus different detachments for the different legions.
Roknar wrote: I was hoping that all of the legions would get at least one unique formation. This is pretty sad in terms of formations, but at least we'll get tailored decurions and legion rules. It could still be a good book overall. Just the formations part is kinda lame.
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Galef wrote: I look at the "copy/paste" aspect of Traitors Legion as a blessing for new players. It basically means that a new player only needs the CSM codex and the Legions book, rather than both of those + Traitor's hate & WoM. If the Agents of the Imperium indeed consolidates the rules for Assassins, Inquisition, Sisters, Custodes, etc than it would be a great step forward for GW and point to a less bloated direction on their part.
Yea, it's good to have them all in one place. It wouldn't have killed them though to give each legion a unique formation. Well other than BL and TSons that is.
In fairness, do the loyalist chapters from the SM codex have chapter specific formations? If the Legion book at least gives rules for a detachment to be X legion (a la chapter tactics) it would go a long way toward putting CSM on par.
If you get the wrath of Magnus fluff book, could you please post all discussions of the fluff in the fluff thread not this one? I foolishly decided to tell someone that I wanted the WoM book and now they are getting it for me for christmas! I must now dodge spoilers for the next 22 days. :(
Spoilers - there's a chap called Magnus and he's rather wrathful.
hehe.
I hope they give world eaters something decent. All other gods got updated after all. And daemonkin is no replacement for world eaters.
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rollawaythestone wrote: Yeah on first glance this looks worrisome. Aren't these just copy-pastes of the Traitor's Hate stuff? (obviously more than that is listed.. but there is serious overlap here...)
They copy pasted all of traitors hate minus the knight, like literally all of it from the looks.
They also copied all of the Black Legion formations and the TSons formations. It looks like all is not remotely equal among the legions.
Keep in mind, Angels of Death didn't include any new formations, either. It was a compilation of existing formations along with detachments that had previously been scattered among different source books. If I remember right, only two of the detachments in the book were actually new: the Salamanders detachment and the vehicle-heavy detachment (can't actually remember the name). I expect this to be largely similar. A lot of previously-released formations form different Chaos Space Marine supplements plus different detachments for the different legions.
CSM don't have the same foundation of chapter tactics and previous releases that SM have had though. So we pretty much have to get more completely new content. So here's to hoping they gave decent decurions and legion benefits.
Updated psychic powers for each god to make them less poopy is great, though. Sounds like a pretty okay release to me. I can't imagine that anyone thought a book with nine other Legions in it was going to have the same amount of content as T-Sons and Black Legion, though.
In fairness, do the loyalist chapters from the SM codex have chapter specific formations? If the Legion book at least gives rules for a detachment to be X legion (a la chapter tactics) it would go a long way toward putting CSM on par.
Yes, isn't there a chapter-specific "decurion" for each Chapter?
Roknar wrote: I was hoping that all of the legions would get at least one unique formation. This is pretty sad in terms of formations, but at least we'll get tailored decurions and legion rules. It could still be a good book overall. Just the formations part is kinda lame.
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Galef wrote: I look at the "copy/paste" aspect of Traitors Legion as a blessing for new players. It basically means that a new player only needs the CSM codex and the Legions book, rather than both of those + Traitor's hate & WoM.
If the Agents of the Imperium indeed consolidates the rules for Assassins, Inquisition, Sisters, Custodes, etc than it would be a great step forward for GW and point to a less bloated direction on their part.
Yea, it's good to have them all in one place. It wouldn't have killed them though to give each legion a unique formation. Well other than BL and TSons that is.
In fairness, do the loyalist chapters from the SM codex have chapter specific formations? If the Legion book at least gives rules for a detachment to be X legion (a la chapter tactics) it would go a long way toward putting CSM on par.
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Fair point. I honestly don't know. I thought that for the most part they did. They have had their share of supplements too. I thought angels blade copied those over so there wasn't much left that didn't have one yet.
And that's why they didn't get many new formations. I suppose I might have gotten that confused with detachments for the various chapters.
Zerosoul wrote: Updated psychic powers for each god to make them less poopy is great, though. Sounds like a pretty okay release to me. I can't imagine that anyone thought a book with nine other Legions in it was going to have the same amount of content as T-Sons and Black Legion, though.
If the Tzeentch one is any indication, it's not new just 3 tacked onto the existing ones.
In fairness, do the loyalist chapters from the SM codex have chapter specific formations? If the Legion book at least gives rules for a detachment to be X legion (a la chapter tactics) it would go a long way toward putting CSM on par.
Yes, isn't there a chapter-specific "decurion" for each Chapter?
As far as I know, yes. That as well as chapter tactic equivalents but on a detachment level. Not sure how chapter tactics are chosen in the loyalist dex.
Zerosoul wrote: Updated psychic powers for each god to make them less poopy is great, though. Sounds like a pretty okay release to me. I can't imagine that anyone thought a book with nine other Legions in it was going to have the same amount of content as T-Sons and Black Legion, though.
If the Tzeentch one is any indication, it's not new just 3 tacked onto the existing ones.
I expect that to be the case too, but tzeentch got at least one really good new power and the other two weren't so bad to start with.
Sersi wrote: Well...this looks to be what we feared. Copy-pasted bad chaos formation. At least Slaanesh and Nurgle appear to have a new formation each.
The meat of the supplement is in the legion and decurion rules though. That and the artefacts of course. So while this is a bit disappointing, it doesn't really lessen the impact the supplement could have.
Traitor's hate wasn't bad, it just wasn't enough. And now we're getting two extra layers of rules on top of that book along with relics. Well, one and a half layers anyway lol
Yes, isn't there a chapter-specific "decurion" for each Chapter?
As far as I know, yes. That as well as chapter tactic equivalents but on a detachment level. Not sure how chapter tactics are chosen in the loyalist dex.
What!?!?! Since when? I thought the main 7 chapters shared the same FBD (the Gladius) and you just applied chapter Tactics. Is this an Angels of Death thing? I know DAs, BAs and SWs have there own stuff because they don't share a Codex like the others do.
would totally be worth it.
