Requizen wrote: Kutlakh will probably have a buff to Flayed Ones. His sword was Instant Death in the last edition, I wonder what that will translate to now.
Toholk's thing was that he gave vehicles IWND (and I think he had a slightly better gun or something?). If he buffs Doomsday Arks he might just become an auto-include.
Think anything with ID typically has a higher damage output. I'm expecting a flat 3 Damage to his sword.
Requizen wrote: Kutlakh will probably have a buff to Flayed Ones. His sword was Instant Death in the last edition, I wonder what that will translate to now.
Toholk's thing was that he gave vehicles IWND (and I think he had a slightly better gun or something?). If he buffs Doomsday Arks he might just become an auto-include.
Think anything with ID typically has a higher damage output. I'm expecting a flat 3 Damage to his sword.
Either that or a variable output of mortal wounds. Probably not both though.
For those with Facebook, Warhammer 40,000: Tau Empire group is sharing some info. I'll post the relevant stuff:
- Technical Drones heal 1D3 wounds on Battlesuits on a 4+. Vehicles cannot be repaired by them.
- R'varna's weapons are 60" Heavy 3D3 S6 AP-2 Dam3. Higher power level than Riptide, less than Y'vhara. W15, M8"
Comes with a Multi-tracker and can picks ATS and/or Stimms.
Nova profiles:
a) re-roll number of shots
b) 3++
c) cause D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ at any enemy unit within 6"
- Hammerhead variants are 2:
a) one with 2 HYMP b) other with the 3 other options from old FW Hammerheads.
- Tetras have the same shadow ability from Remoras, a High Intensity Markerlight (1 attack, but gives 3 ML tokens at once). No homing beacons anymore.
- R'myr is from Dal'yth sept. Same Kauyon/Mont'ka effects. Dislikes Astra Militarum
- R'alai is from Kelshan Sept. Same Kauyon/Mont'ka effects. 3++ against enemies at 12", re-roll hits vs characters
- Barracuda has 5++, railgun is Heavy 2 S8. BS3+
- Tigershark lost the drone bay and now fires a lot of missiles: D6 S6 AP-2 Dam2, as the same railgun of the Barracuda. BS2+
Tigershark AX-0-1 has the same Railgun of Ta'unar
power levels less than 31
(funny detail: Tigershark AX-0-1 doesn't have Titanic keyword, but his weapon is a Macro one. RAW, can't fire it when moving)
- Orca can carry 65 infentry models, with battlesuits taking 2 spaces each. Lower power level than a Riptide
- Manta has W60 and same railgun of ta'unar. carry a lot of stuff
- Sensor Tower has the high intensity markerlight, overwatches at BS5+, has For the Greater Good, 1 unit within 3" of it can re-roll 1s to hit. can't deep strike
- Heavy gun drones are gun drones with W3 and 2 burst cannons
Man, the words on those tyranid datasheets...and the general formatting, there are a fair few large mistakes I am seeing, and stuff that just doesn't really make sense.
Guys, I appreciate all the passion, but on Dakka, please generally speaking:
1) Do not post links to sites that offer scans and/or direct downloads of copyrighted documents that do not have permission from the copyright holder to be freely distributed.
2) Do not discuss methods or ways of avoiding copyright (such as where people can find sites that allow people to circumvent copyright protections).
3) Do not ask for people to provide you with materials that are copyrighted (that they don't have permission from the copyright holder do distribute) or where to find sites where you can circumvent copyright protection.
You are obviously free to discuss the contents of leaked information that you hear/read about (and posting general summaries like Vector Strike did) is obviously fine.
Finally, can you hotlink scans of copyrighted documents (that you do not have permission from the copyright holder to re-post) on Dakka? Well, technically as those images reside on someone else's site, it can be okay. However, ONLY if the contents of those scans aren't like the entire set of rules (so people can avoid buying the book, for example), then it simply isn't allowed.
So please take care about what you post/discuss in this thread. I will be deleting some posts that do not conform to these rules. Further discussion in this thread ignoring this warning may result in disciplinary action.
Marauder bombers are better at shooting other zooming flyers than a vendetta........
A guardsman is better at shooting other flyers than a vendetta.....
Vendettas are better at shooting vehicles flying over 700 miles an hour when it is stationary........
bs modifiers when shooting with a lightning as are follows: -1 to bs for moving (mandatory) -1 to bs for hard to hit, and +1 to hit for it's autocannon. This gak is is indefensibly bad.
Seriously this edition is pretty cool so far, but the way flyers work is so stupid.
I guess I wasn't specific enough with my earlier warning (so I've updated it).
Please also do not request someone to provide you with copyrighted material that they don't have permission from the copyright holder to distribute, nor ask for directions to sites where copyrighted material is being distributed without the copyright holder's permission.
To clarify my earlier post, I'm curious if they're good or not. I'll have the index downloaded in a few hours. But if anyone happens to have seen things already, I'm curious to know about people's initial impressions, like how Vector Strike summarized.
Sledgehammer wrote: Marauder bombers are better at shooting other zooming flyers than a vendetta........
A guardsman is better at shooting other flyers than a vendetta.....
Vendettas are better at shooting vehicles flying over 700 miles an hour when it is stationary........
bs modifiers when shooting with a lightning as are follows: -1 to bs for moving (mandatory) -1 to bs for hard to hit, and +1 to hit for it's autocannon. This gak is is indefensibly bad.
Seriously this edition is pretty cool so far, but the way flyers work is so stupid.
That has to be a mistake. Why in the world would they apply the heavy penalty on a flyer that cant hover.
Sledgehammer wrote: Marauder bombers are better at shooting other zooming flyers than a vendetta........
A guardsman is better at shooting other flyers than a vendetta.....
Vendettas are better at shooting vehicles flying over 700 miles an hour when it is stationary........
bs modifiers when shooting with a lightning as are follows: -1 to bs for moving (mandatory) -1 to bs for hard to hit, and +1 to hit for it's autocannon. This gak is is indefensibly bad.
Seriously this edition is pretty cool so far, but the way flyers work is so stupid.
That has to be a mistake. Why in the world would they apply the heavy penalty on a flyer that cant hover.
For the same reason the doom scythe has a heavy penalty? That reason being "who knows".
ncshooter426 wrote: Why in the world would they apply the heavy penalty on a flyer that cant hover.
Because 8th is a complete dumpster fire, from beginning to end.
From a guy who usually ascribes to a pretty logical point of view and defends his positions, I am disappointed. [that was a misplaced modifier I couldn't figure out how to word differently a]. Nay, I am offended.
Gordon Shumway wrote: From a guy who usually ascribes to a pretty logical point of view and defends his positions, I am disappointed. [that was a misplaced modifier I couldn't figure out how to word differently a]. Nay, I am offended.
I'm not sure what defense you think is necessary here, when there are obvious stupid rules like this it's pretty self-evidently clear that the book is a mess and probably had very little effort put into it. And I've made my position on 8th edition in general clear plenty of times, even if I don't drag this thread off-topic by repeating that explanation again.
ncshooter426 wrote: Titans? I am ordering the physical books - just curoius about my warhound
75 power, S10 T9 35 wounds, 3+ save. 4 damage steps (typo it looks like, since it goes from M 24 to M8, 6, 4 while the other titans go to from say M 20 to M18. I think they left off the 1 in front. Typical copy editing)
Voids are Inv saves that work vs mortal wounds, gets weaker as the titan loses health.
Turbolaser is still probably strongest, but less shots with 2d6 damage. Plasma blastgun is 2d6 shots with 3 damage, so better against elite infantry units. Can overcharge.
Vulcan Megabolter and Inferno gun are now pretty useful since they can overwatch.
Double the old point cost.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sledgehammer wrote: Marauder bombers are better at shooting other zooming flyers than a vendetta........
A guardsman is better at shooting other flyers than a vendetta.....
Vendettas are better at shooting vehicles flying over 700 miles an hour when it is stationary........
bs modifiers when shooting with a lightning as are follows: -1 to bs for moving (mandatory) -1 to bs for hard to hit, and +1 to hit for it's autocannon. This gak is is indefensibly bad.
Seriously this edition is pretty cool so far, but the way flyers work is so stupid.
Vendetta is a gunship, so other fliers being better at shooting aircraft is a good thing.
Lightning and Thunderbolt are now 3+ to shoot base, while they used to be BS3 before, countering their -1 for moving. So no net change against fliers, and +1 against ground targets. Both became far more durable, and only are 10 points more expensive for a base loadout than in 7th. They are huge winners of this edition.
Most annoying army in the game that I thought up: big circle of earthshaker batteries. Inside are 50+ individual dual heavy bolter tarantulas. Some characters hide in the middle. Everything can shoot into melee, morale does not matter because it is all single model units in infinite bubble wraps. Earthshakers can shoot at anything anywhere on the table. Every model is a pain to kill in melee.
Ex: 6 Earthshakers and 50 bolter tarans leaves you 290 points for characters or more stuff in a 2k list. CPs limited only by how many HQs you bring.
ncshooter426 wrote: Titans? I am ordering the physical books - just curoius about my warhound
75 power, S10 T9 35 wounds, 3+ save. 4 damage steps (typo it looks like, since it goes from M 24 to M8, 6, 4 while the other titans go to from say M 20 to M18. I think they left off the 1 in front. Typical copy editing)
Voids are Inv saves that work vs mortal wounds, gets weaker as the titan loses health.
Turbolaser is still probably strongest, but less shots with 2d6 damage. Plasma blastgun is 2d6 shots with 3 damage, so better against elite infantry units. Can overcharge.
Vulcan Megabolter and Inferno gun are now pretty useful since they can overwatch.
Double the old point cost.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sledgehammer wrote: Marauder bombers are better at shooting other zooming flyers than a vendetta........
A guardsman is better at shooting other flyers than a vendetta.....
Vendettas are better at shooting vehicles flying over 700 miles an hour when it is stationary........
bs modifiers when shooting with a lightning as are follows: -1 to bs for moving (mandatory) -1 to bs for hard to hit, and +1 to hit for it's autocannon. This gak is is indefensibly bad.
Seriously this edition is pretty cool so far, but the way flyers work is so stupid.
Vendetta is a gunship, so other fliers being better at shooting aircraft is a good thing.
Lightning and Thunderbolt are now 3+ to shoot base, while they used to be BS3 before, countering their -1 for moving. So no net change against fliers, and +1 against ground targets. Both became far more durable, and only are 10 points more expensive for a base loadout than in 7th. They are huge winners of this edition.
None of this excuses the fact that it is penalized for moving, and is less effective at shooting down other aircraft than some guy on the ground with an anti tank weapon.
The Valkyrie itself while having the official classification as dropship/gunship still has the general flight characteristics of a standard aircraft.The only difference being that it is simultaneously capable of generating vertical thrust (this only makes it more maneuverable). What this means is that the valkyrie itself flies like any other aircraft. Aircraft themselves tend to be pretty freaking stable weapons platforms considering they can move as quickly as they do. Couple this with a sophisticated fly by wire system and you have an aircraft that is for all intents and purposes unaffected by subtle changes in air pressure and buffeting. It therefore stands to reason that a forward facing weapon on an aircraft such as the vendetta should not be affected by movement.
Tanks need gyroscopic stabilizers for a reason, otherwise they would be pretty useless on the move. This is why the turret weapons on the lemon russ can ignore that penality. Guess what, we have had gyroscopic sights and stabilizers on aircraft since ww2......
I'm fine with vendettas hitting other flyers on 5s, but It makes no sense for them to be hitting other zooming flyers on 6s.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Vendetta is a gunship, so other fliers being better at shooting aircraft is a good thing.
Not when the other flyer in question is a heavy bomber. I think the more likely explanation is that nobody bothered to pay much attention to how the -1 penalty for moving works on a unit that is required to move every turn.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Vendetta is a gunship, so other fliers being better at shooting aircraft is a good thing.
Not when the other flyer in question is a heavy bomber. I think the more likely explanation is that nobody bothered to pay much attention to how the -1 penalty for moving works on a unit that is required to move every turn.
I agree here the manta thunderhawk and stormbird are perfect marksmen. Eldar fw flyers are bs4+ best case scenario.... makes the nightwing a great interceptor when it's as likely to hit as the Phoenix bomber or how the vampires are the only super heavy flyer that has a penalty...
Oh hey, and the dumpster fire continues. FW didn't bother putting the flyer movement restrictions on the Marauders, so my heavy bomber can now out-turn air superiority fighters.
How do renegades work? Do they get access to AM tanks?
These are the AM units they get. Otherwise, they have the faction keywords CHAOS and RENEGADES AND HERETICS. The regular Milita Squads are also pretty bad.
What. Is. The. Issue. With Renegades getting the malcador Infernus! I want to burn things!
And there definitely were renegade sabre platform models. FW forget this.. shame as the new searchlights some amazing
Sorry, only loyal servants of the Emperor gets to burn things :^)
But yeah, it's a bit of a sloppy job for both the Death Korps and the Renegades and Heretics, although the former came out better in the end. Hoping for an update to Vraks to come within a year or two.
Peregrine wrote: Oh hey, and the dumpster fire continues. FW didn't bother putting the flyer movement restrictions on the Marauders, so my heavy bomber can now out-turn air superiority fighters.
You think that's bad? The Tau Tigershark AX-1-0 can't even fire it's own main weapon because they forgot to add a keyword to it. Oh Forgeworld stay classy. Meanwhile in GW land it's space marines around every corner. Tau with a loss rate closing in on 90% and the community saying this is all great since at least we have more space marines. :( Naturally the Tau famous for giant battlesuits can't even get a good titan in 8th. Nope can't give the filthy dirt Tau players anything.
warl0rdb0b wrote: Has anyone checked over the Ork stuff? Just wondering if we can clear up the whole Mega Dred problem so I know if the books a complete loss.
Peregrine wrote: Oh hey, and the dumpster fire continues. FW didn't bother putting the flyer movement restrictions on the Marauders, so my heavy bomber can now out-turn air superiority fighters.
You think that's bad? The Tau Tigershark AX-1-0 can't even fire it's own main weapon because they forgot to add a keyword to it. Oh Forgeworld stay classy. Meanwhile in GW land it's space marines around every corner. Tau with a loss rate closing in on 90% and the community saying this is all great since at least we have more space marines. :( Naturally the Tau famous for giant battlesuits can't even get a good titan in 8th. Nope can't give the filthy dirt Tau players anything.
They gave you 7th Ed all wrapped up with a bow. What more do you want??
XeZZ wrote: How many points are tetras and what BS do they have?
They are garbage, bs 4+ and make a single to hit roll for placing 3 ML markers. They get -1 to hit for moving.
Are you serius?
feth. I have four of these.
I didn't expect MUCH, as markerlights, and tau in general, seems to be pathetic in 8th, but this is absurd.
Why bother with what is basically 3 pathfinders and costs like 8?
warl0rdb0b wrote: Has anyone checked over the Ork stuff? Just wondering if we can clear up the whole Mega Dred problem so I know if the books a complete loss.
No mega dred, no problem.
Well , standard FW rules writing at its finest. Maybe I'll get to use my model in 6 months time but how they could mess up with so many units as they seem to have and not pick up on it is anyones guess.
warl0rdb0b wrote: Has anyone checked over the Ork stuff? Just wondering if we can clear up the whole Mega Dred problem so I know if the books a complete loss.
No mega dred, no problem.
Well , standard FW rules writing at its finest. Maybe I'll get to use my model in 6 months time but how they could mess up with so many units as they seem to have and not pick up on it is anyones guess.
feth. I have four of these.
I didn't expect MUCH, as markerlights, and tau in general, seems to be pathetic in 8th, but this is absurd.
Why bother with what is basically 3 pathfinders and costs like 8?
I've got four as well. Terribly sad.
If they had made the weapon 3 separate shots AND allowed the vehicle to move and shoot the markerlight without being penalized it still wouldn't have been worth the 53 points it costs for one of these.
But having it be a one-shot deal AND the fact that its -1 if the Tetra moves? You've got to be kidding me.
Just a quick few questions, are there technically any bonuses for using the different Leman Russ pattern turrets, and any bonuses for using the alternative hull pattern? Also, do the Chimeras get their Autocannon turrets back? And lastly, any bonus for using the alternative Hell hound hull over the vanilla one?
Freddy Kruger wrote: Just a quick few questions, are there technically any bonuses for using the different Leman Russ pattern turrets, and any bonuses for using the alternative hull pattern? Also, do the Chimeras get their Autocannon turrets back? And lastly, any bonus for using the alternative Hell hound hull over the vanilla one?
The Conqueror and Stygies Vanquisher have Co-axial storm bolters, otherwise no for the Ryza patterns.
The Mars hull has +1Sv against S4 or less.
Death Korps Chimeras can take autocannons, normal ones can't.
Artemia Hellhound is identical to normal Inferno cannon but rolls two dice and discards lowest for number of hits.
The tiger shark AX-1-0 is pretty disappointing as well, since it's 2 heavy rail guns (which are 260 points for both!) are macro weapons and thus can't be fired on the move by non-titanic units (which the tiger shark is not). As a supersonic flyer it has to move, and therefor can never fire its very expensive heavy rail cannons. The barracuda, and basic tigershark fighter bomber look alright for the points though. The real gem is the Y'varha, clocking in at 395 points with it's weapons, not including the 2 support systems it can take. Oddly enough, it can take a normal shield generator for 40 points, though that's hardly worth it.
chalkobob wrote: The tiger shark AX-1-0 is pretty disappointing as well, since it's 2 heavy rail guns (which are 260 points for both!) are macro weapons and thus can't be fired on the move by non-titanic units (which the tiger shark is not). As a supersonic flyer it has to move, and therefor can never fire its very expensive heavy rail cannons.
Another failure for inferior Tau technology! How can they hope to stand against superior Imperial munitions?
It's just a mistake in the rules, there are far too many even considering Forge World's usually lax quality control. I guess they didn't have enough time.
taemu_touhi wrote: It's the loss of JSJ which makes tau players sad, myself included. However that just means I need to adjust my play style.
Ratlings stole your jump jets!
I'm starting to agree with Peregrine over this, although to a far lesser degree. It just seems like quite a rushed mess. It is like the vanilla indices fell to the normal FW level and the FW ones fell the same amount. Example:
Macharius Vulcan: If this model does not move during the Movement phase, in the preceding Shooting phase, change this weapon's Typeto Heavy 30 until the end of the turn.
So going by RAW (as I think we all know what RAI is for this) you could fire 30 shots as long as you don't move next turn? Or FW have somehow invented time travel.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Is there anything allowing g you to make a corsair army list, or do we just get the couple units?
Sitting on over 4000 points of corsair over here, I need to know!!!
Well you get Cloud dancers, reavers and skyreavers as corsair units, with the anhrathe and <coterie> keywords. I don't know how you would make an army out of that though.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: What I can STRONGLY suggest is that FW are under a lot of pressure due to their head writer dying of cancer[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]
Yeah that was a tragic thing. I actually didn't consider that he was head writer, feel a bit gakky now. I really wish that they had delayed this release though, it would have been preferable and understandable. I guess it is easy enough to update the e-books but I am a physical book lover and would rather have waited.
Plus it looks fairly obvious that the indices were rushed, indicating that FW likely wasn't given enough notice as to when they'd be expected to release these (that or they were just too busy on other existing projects like Inferno & then Fires).
Limited time scale and a loss of an individual that important will have a negative effect on basically any work.
vipoid wrote: Does anyone know if Corsair Princes still a thing?
They are not.
Get fu ed, Forgeworld.
These books are a tide-over to ensure models get transferred over to the new rules, it's more than likely such things will be covered later on.
What I can STRONGLY suggest is that FW are under a lot of pressure due to their head writer dying of cancer[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]
These books were probably done years ago.
I highly doubt it, honestly. From all that we see from GW and FW, they are not that far ahead. And even still, they are just meant to get stuff up to speed. You might wind up with an 8th Ed release that fleshes the faction out a bit, so definitely might want to calm that rage a bit and wait. The game literally just came out a week ago.
While I do agree with you, MGS, the fact that there are plenty of other characters without models that transitioned whilst characters and units with legal models for left out kinda puts paid that whole tide-over notion, so people are understandably upset.
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]FW can crank out a dataslate for every other unit, but somehow this one just pushed them over the edge? Literally the only reason for them to do this is because they are dropping the Prince (along with the Void Dreamer, the Barons and everything else that hasn't been given a stat card.)
Does it have options like the renegades army list to give those keywords to select Aeldari units?
If not, then I am at a loss for words. I've been building my corsair army for 3 edditions and (accidentally) bought 3 different books to field them. (Bought an apocalypse book because it had a corsairs raiding band listed)
Now, they may have to be stand-ins for other units. I can't imagine them giving all the weapon options that existed for the same body types to these units.
Can the skyreavers take a mix of power weapons, dual weilding pistols, three different ranged weapons, and four different special weapons? I converted the hell outta a bunch of the eldar/ dark eldar range and now my army may have been completely eliminated.
I hope I didn't just waste all of that time and money :(
Any model in the unit can replace their lasblaster with a shuriken catapult, shardcarbine or spar-glaive. They also get about 8 different "1 model in 5 can replace" weapons.
Not being acquaintanced with the printing industry, I have no idea how long it would take to print the Index Books, but I don't think it would be months. Also having read plenty of FW books, they have their errors, but it's usually correct. This is on an entirely different scale, with glaring issues anyone with a bit of time would catch, unlike anything I've seen before. So either they just didn't give a damn, or they were rushed in one way or another.
Oh God, I forgot about the heavy penalty for vehicles...
This is so dumb; vehicles should not suffer heavy penalties after moving at all. 1 shot at BS5+ for 3 ML tokens?!?
Looks like my 5 Tetras will meet the shelves
Aenarian wrote: Not being acquaintanced with the printing industry, I have no idea how long it would take to print the Index Books, but I don't think it would be months. Also having read plenty of FW books, they have their errors, but it's usually correct. This is on an entirely different scale, with glaring issues anyone with a bit of time would catch, unlike anything I've seen before. So either they just didn't give a damn, or they were rushed in one way or another.
Assuming they're still produced in China, the lead time for printing like this would be months. After the production run, goods like this are normally sent via container ships which are typically on the water for 4-6 weeks. You have land transport times & possible customs delays on top. Then there's further distribution on GW's side to get things into regional warehouses well before launch day.
I would not be at all surprised if the master copies of all indexes (GW and FW) were finalised around New Year.
xttz wrote: Assuming they're still produced in China, the lead time for printing like this would be months. Goods like this are normally sent via container ships which are typically on the water for 4-6 weeks then you have land transport & customs delays on top.
Just glanced at my Index Imperium 2, says printed by Belmont Press in the UK. Still, printing takes a significant amount of time no matter where you do it. Add to that the fact they have done the Main Rulebook, the 5 Indices, the 4 FW indices and also the miscellaneous printed materials. Then they have to get all of that distributed worldwide, I can guess a significant lead time would be needed.
Edit: Main rule book says Westdale in UK. Maybe they gave the hardbacks to a different company.
xttz wrote: Assuming they're still produced in China, the lead time for printing like this would be months. Goods like this are normally sent via container ships which are typically on the water for 4-6 weeks then you have land transport & customs delays on top.
Just glanced at my Index Imperium 2, says printed by Belmont Press in the UK. Still, printing takes a significant amount of time no matter where you do it. Add to that the fact they have done the Main Rulebook, the 5 Indices, the 4 FW indices and also the miscellaneous printed materials. Then they have to get all of that distributed worldwide, I can guess a significant lead time would be needed.
Edit: Main rule book says Westdale in UK. Maybe they gave the hardbacks to a different company.
Eh. 90-120 days? I can't imagine it takes that much for an established publishing house to roll out books.
Feels like not a lot of thought was put into some of the updated units. I have liked the Tau R'alai model but it has always been suffering from sub-par rules.
It has kept its fairly useless character assassin rule, but unless the enemy character is the closest model it's not going to do anything. In addition his blacklight marker drones are not different in anyway from regular marker drones, but cost more points.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Eh. 90-120 days? I can't imagine it takes that much for an established publishing house to roll out books.
Yeah but it strikes me as one of those things that people outside the industry (like me) have no idea about. You have all sorts of typesetting, materials and other choices. Then all that needs to get approval of several people and the usual bureaucracy. It is not as easy as some people think, which is "print it off and ship it".
xttz wrote: Assuming they're still produced in China, the lead time for printing like this would be months. Goods like this are normally sent via container ships which are typically on the water for 4-6 weeks then you have land transport & customs delays on top.
Just glanced at my Index Imperium 2, says printed by Belmont Press in the UK. Still, printing takes a significant amount of time no matter where you do it. Add to that the fact they have done the Main Rulebook, the 5 Indices, the 4 FW indices and also the miscellaneous printed materials. Then they have to get all of that distributed worldwide, I can guess a significant lead time would be needed.
Edit: Main rule book says Westdale in UK. Maybe they gave the hardbacks to a different company.
Both SM & Chaos forgeworld Indexes say that they are printed in the UK.
GW Indexes are a mix, some China, some UK. My rulebooks says UK also.
Quite likely that they used a selection of places for all the books due to the volumes needed.
Hmm interesting. If I'm reading this right its either a typo or the Elysian Drop Troopers Plasma guns are a bit stronger then other versions while being the same price. That could be a big deal.
Zach wrote: Im just curious given the silliness that they were the past year or so, did Skat Knights get toned down?
You got your hands on the FW Astra Militarum book?? I am seeking for some datasheet about the Avenger Strike Fighter and Thunderbolt flyer as well as Elysians rules...
Zach wrote: Im just curious given the silliness that they were the past year or so, did Skat Knights get toned down?
You got your hands on the FW Astra Militarum book?? I am seeking for some datasheet about the Avenger Strike Fighter and Thunderbolt flyer as well as Elysians rules...
^ Did you mean to quote me? I have no books, I dont play these days.
Khadorstompy wrote: Hmm interesting. If I'm reading this right its either a typo or the Elysian Drop Troopers Plasma guns are a bit stronger then other versions while being the same price. That could be a big deal.
Yeah, the overcharged damage being 3 instead of 2 is likely a typo. One of many. Who knows though.
Zach wrote: Im just curious given the silliness that they were the past year or so, did Skat Knights get toned down?
You got your hands on the FW Astra Militarum book?? I am seeking for some datasheet about the Avenger Strike Fighter and Thunderbolt flyer as well as Elysians rules...
ncshooter426 wrote: I missed it -- Avenger fighter? Just the shakedown info, no scans per rules
S6 AP-2 Heavy 8 cannon. Heavy stubbed that hits "fly" keyword things with a +1 (even if they've been standing on the ground for the entire game), up to 10 mortal wounds using tactical bombs and a minimum move of 20" (max is 45, then 30" then 20"
xttz wrote: Assuming they're still produced in China, the lead time for printing like this would be months. Goods like this are normally sent via container ships which are typically on the water for 4-6 weeks then you have land transport & customs delays on top.
Just glanced at my Index Imperium 2, says printed by Belmont Press in the UK. Still, printing takes a significant amount of time no matter where you do it. Add to that the fact they have done the Main Rulebook, the 5 Indices, the 4 FW indices and also the miscellaneous printed materials. Then they have to get all of that distributed worldwide, I can guess a significant lead time would be needed.
Edit: Main rule book says Westdale in UK. Maybe they gave the hardbacks to a different company.
Both SM & Chaos forgeworld Indexes say that they are printed in the UK.
GW Indexes are a mix, some China, some UK. My rulebooks says UK also.
Quite likely that they used a selection of places for all the books due to the volumes needed.
Completely normal publishing practice. First print runs done in Far East for cost reasons, reprints in Europe/UK once volumes needed are established after preorders are in to avoid the 3-month China leadtime (which is standard for even big publishing houses... paper is too heavy to fly economically so books literally sit at the docks or on a boat for weeks and weeks). I doubt FW got sorted in time to print Far East, and likely also expecting lower volumes, so had to stump up for domestic printing.
Just flipping through the books I've found numerous problems.
Haven't read the whole thread so if these have been mentioned before then so be it.
Sent these to FW asking for answers
Imperial Armour - Index - Forces of the Astra Militarum page 46
Arvis Lighter
Transport : This model can transport 12 Astra Militarum Infantry
I bought mine for my Sisters of Battle army as the Arvus Lighter was the only flying transport in the game that Sisters had access to. So my purchase is now completely useless for my sisters army?
Shouldn't the rule say:
This model can transport 12 Astra Militarum, Adepta Sororitas or Vraksian Renegade Infantry models. As per the IA Apocalypse 2E which is the most recent book with the Arvus if I'm not mistaken.
Imperial Armour - Index - Xenos
A model armed with a Macro weapon may not fire if it has moved previously in the turn, unless the firing unit also has the TITANIC keyword.
Tau Tiger Shark AX-1-0 has a Heavy rail cannon that is Macro, it can't hover and must move a minimum of 20" a turn, it does NOT have the Titanic keyword...
So by RAW it can never fire this weapon?
Orks don't have the MEGA DREAD and there are no rules for the kill saw or kill kannon arm.
FW site says the rules for the Mega Dread can be found in Xenos but they are missing.
Found these from just 10 minutes of flipping through the book. As always there is no quality control with FWs books as with their models...
So I've wanted to make a converted salamander recon/command tank for a while now. Do they still give the -1 cover save rule or do they have something a bit more useful now? Also does the scout vehicle have transport abilities and/or 'outflank'??? (*crosses fingers)
Twoshoes23 wrote: So I've wanted to make a converted salamander recon/command tank for a while now. Do they still give the -1 cover save rule or do they have something a bit more useful now? Also does the scout vehicle have transport abilities and/or 'outflank'??? (*crosses fingers)
The command gets to give a vehicle within 6" a +1 to hit. They both get a 9" scout move, no outflank. Also, the command variant lost the ability to take 2x bolters, and is fixed with flamer/bolter.
Twoshoes23 wrote: So I've wanted to make a converted salamander recon/command tank for a while now. Do they still give the -1 cover save rule or do they have something a bit more useful now? Also does the scout vehicle have transport abilities and/or 'outflank'??? (*crosses fingers)
Salamander Command Vehicle
Auspex Surveyor: During shooting phase, a single friendly regiment vehicle within 6" adds 1 to all hit rolls.
Scout Vehicle: At the start of the first battle round but before first turn can be moved 9" but cannot end it's move within 9" of enemy models.
Salamander Scout Tank: 1-3 Vehicles per fast attack.
Doesn't have Auspex Surveyor but does have Vehicle Squadron: When models are set up they have to be within 6" of each other but then act independently.
No transport capacity that I can see.
I hope FW can shift some of its Horus Heresy work ethic and resources over to 40k soon and update these books, because the Renegades and Heretics 8th army is the worst and laziest thing FW has ever produced (which is saying something, considering that IA:13 and IA: Vraks were both riddled with typos and omissions that desperately needed errata that never got published).
The army lost the few interesting rules and units it had, what it kept got worse and more expensive, and now almost everything is a worse LD and BS version of the Astra Militarum equivalent, except without orders. And there are tons of mistakes (missing character keywords, can't ride in transports, some unit rules missing, etc.).
Whichever intern wrote the R&H rules for 8th must have been drunk as heck. This publication makes no sense at all.
So the only benefit of the scout vehicle is switching to autocannon load outs changes and squadrons? Dang gw, missed a chance with special weapon squads in salamanders ...the command one giving plus 1 To hit isn't that bad for my leman russ's
Well just to remove any doubt about the number of ork datasheets in the FW book, I bought
the digital version... and there is only 13 datasheets and not 19 as stated on the website.
This is just bad advertisement people!
The treatment the FW ork range received with this book is just a shame.
What. Is. The. Issue. With Renegades getting the malcador Infernus! I want to burn things!
#
And there definitely were renegade sabre platform models. FW forget this.. shame as the new searchlights some amazing
At least the last list from The IA 13 didn't have the infernus either.
But for exemple, the valdor is also missing now (still sold with the renegade tank commander!) which is .
I have a pair of them which should see no more use that most of my ork FW models...
Leman russ variants which were avalaible before also vanished...
This might be the first product I ask a refund on and return it. I can't believe the index isn't even alphabetized. Quitr possibly the worst book I've seen produced.
I may be missing something,
but Renegades and Heretics can choose a Medusa battery... which is not in the book!
(the old platform: the earthshaker is in the list, the medusa seems not).
They lost, the valdor, the malcador destructor, the maccharius omega...
wyomingfox wrote: So comparing a match-up of a Taunar with Pulse Ordnance and Dual Tri-Axis Ion Cannons (Plus 4 SS and 4 BC) vs a Revenant with Dual Pulsars and Cloudburst Missiles, the Taunar will do 24 unsaved damage per turn on average (27 if within range of burst cannons & Smart missiles) where as the Revenant will do 34 unsaved damage on average.
Now comparing their power points of 55 for the Taunar vs 60 for Revenant, this seems fair. However if you played match play, the Revenant is 1200 points vs the Taunar at 1202, yet the Revenant has 2 more wounds, +1 toughness, does more damage, and has 16" more movement.
Tau 8th ed balancing at its finest. Our AX-1-0 Tigershark can't fire it's heavy rail cannon arrays either because it lacks a keyword. So we effectively have no titan scale weaponry left worth a damn except the Manta. Great... got to read three more shiny new Tau battle reports today. Three more losses. Tau rebalance when?
mortar_crew wrote: I may be missing something,
but Renegades and Heretics can choose a Medusa battery... which is not in the book!
(the old platform: the earthshaker is in the list, the medusa seems not).
They lost, the valdor, the malcador destructor, the maccharius omega...
The Medusa Carriage Battery is absolutely in the book, page 26 of the digital one. The Armageddon pattern Medusa is on page 14. RAI, these should be the Medusa Battery and the Medusa the R&H list refers to. Of course, RAW, none of these are called "Medusa Battery" or "Medusa", and I personally think they should have the normal Medusa tank as well, but take what you can get.
If you refer to the Earthshaker Platform from the Earthshaker Battery, I don't think the Medusa had a model for this one?
mortar_crew wrote: I may be missing something,
but Renegades and Heretics can choose a Medusa battery... which is not in the book!
(the old platform: the earthshaker is in the list, the medusa seems not).
They lost, the valdor, the malcador destructor, the maccharius omega...
The Medusa Carriage Battery is absolutely in the book, page 26 of the digital one. The Armageddon pattern Medusa is on page 14. RAI, these should be the Medusa Battery and the Medusa the R&H list refers to. Of course, RAW, none of these are called "Medusa Battery" or "Medusa", and I personally think they should have the normal Medusa tank as well, but take what you can get.
If you refer to the Earthshaker Platform from the Earthshaker Battery, I don't think the Medusa had a model for this one?
Yes I spotted the Medusa Carriage Battery at the page you refer to, and as you understood I was refering to the the Earthshaker Platform, fitted with the Medusa gun,
which was in thw old list (IA 13) if my memory serves. Basically it is the same rules as the carriage version anyway but I find this lack of care annoying.
And as you wrote, the reason why they lost the tank version of the guns (Basilisc and Medusa) is beyond me. (there is even one painted in the FW masterclass book!)
The sabre platforms were lost long ago (which I still find annoying also, owning them), but as for the russes and the valdor tank hunter,
(which also were painted in the FW masterclass book!) these where axed without any reason I can understand.
Well, at least we lept the griffon, which is still one of my favorite model...
mortar_crew wrote: I may be missing something, but Renegades and Heretics can choose a Medusa battery... which is not in the book! (the old platform: the earthshaker is in the list, the medusa seems not).
They lost, the valdor, the malcador destructor, the maccharius omega...
The Medusa Carriage Battery is absolutely in the book, page 26 of the digital one. The Armageddon pattern Medusa is on page 14. RAI, these should be the Medusa Battery and the Medusa the R&H list refers to. Of course, RAW, none of these are called "Medusa Battery" or "Medusa", and I personally think they should have the normal Medusa tank as well, but take what you can get.
If you refer to the Earthshaker Platform from the Earthshaker Battery, I don't think the Medusa had a model for this one?
Yes I spotted the Medusa Carriage Battery at the page you refer to, and as you understood I was refering to the the Earthshaker Platform, fitted with the Medusa gun, which was in thw old list (IA 13) if my memory serves. Basically it is the same rules as the carriage version anyway but I find this lack of care annoying. And as you wrote, the reason why they lost the tank version of the guns (Basilisc and Medusa) is beyond me. (there is even one painted in the FW masterclass book!)
The sabre platforms were lost long ago (which I still find annoying also, owning them), but as for the russes and the valdor tank hunter, (which also were painted in the FW masterclass book!) these where axed without any reason I can understand.
Well, at least we lept the griffon, which is still one of my favorite model...
A Medusa Platform was not in the IA13?
In R&H heavy support in that book, you have Renegade Artillery Battery, which are the Basilisk and Medusa Tanks, Renegade Griffon and Wyvern Tanks, Renegade Hydra, Renegade Bombard (The Colossus Bombard Tank), Renegade Heavy Ordnance Battery (Earthshaker and Medusa Carriages), Renegade Heavy Weapons Teams, Renegade Laser Destroyers and Renegade Field Artillery.
The Earthshaker Platform was an entirely different unit, shown in the spoilers below, and never had a Medusa counterpart from what I know. I added the Earthshaker/Medusa Carriage as well, to show the difference.
Spoiler:
Both the Manticore and Hydra had platforms as well, and they are both in Index Astra Militarum.
And just for reference, I'll show the platform and the carriage versions of the Earthshaker
mortar_crew wrote: I may be missing something,
but Renegades and Heretics can choose a Medusa battery... which is not in the book!
(the old platform: the earthshaker is in the list, the medusa seems not).
They lost, the valdor, the malcador destructor, the maccharius omega...
The Medusa Carriage Battery is absolutely in the book, page 26 of the digital one. The Armageddon pattern Medusa is on page 14. RAI, these should be the Medusa Battery and the Medusa the R&H list refers to. Of course, RAW, none of these are called "Medusa Battery" or "Medusa", and I personally think they should have the normal Medusa tank as well, but take what you can get.
If you refer to the Earthshaker Platform from the Earthshaker Battery, I don't think the Medusa had a model for this one?
Yes I spotted the Medusa Carriage Battery at the page you refer to, and as you understood I was refering to the the Earthshaker Platform, fitted with the Medusa gun,
which was in thw old list (IA 13) if my memory serves. Basically it is the same rules as the carriage version anyway but I find this lack of care annoying.
And as you wrote, the reason why they lost the tank version of the guns (Basilisc and Medusa) is beyond me. (there is even one painted in the FW masterclass book!)
The sabre platforms were lost long ago (which I still find annoying also, owning them), but as for the russes and the valdor tank hunter,
(which also were painted in the FW masterclass book!) these where axed without any reason I can understand.
Well, at least we lept the griffon, which is still one of my favorite model...
A Medusa Platform was not in the IA13?
In R&H heavy support in that book, you have Renegade Artillery Battery, which are the Basilisk and Medusa Tanks, Renegade Griffon and Wyvern Tanks, Renegade Hydra, Renegade Bombard (The Colossus Bombard Tank), Renegade Heavy Ordnance Battery (Earthshaker and Medusa Carriages), Renegade Heavy Weapons Teams, Renegade Laser Destroyers and Renegade Field Artillery.
The Earthshaker Platform was an entirely different unit, shown in the spoilers below, and never had a Medusa counterpart from what I know. I added the Earthshaker/Medusa Carriage as well, to show the difference.
Spoiler:
Both the Manticore and Hydra had platforms as well, and they are both in Index Astra Militarum.
And just for reference, I'll show the platform and the carriage versions of the Earthshaker
Spoiler:
Platform:
Carriage:
I checked back and you are absolutely right, there was no medusa upgrade option for the medusa platform then.
Only the later carriage entry has this option.
But the list for R&H from the index for 8th shows "Earthshaker battery" (the platform if you see details in the datasheet), a "Medusa battery" (in theory... a platform?)
which is nowhere to be found in the index itself, so I believe there is some kind of miss in this list (the list for R&H has no carriage for example).
And some of the rarer stuff (the valdor, damnit!) found missing is pretty annoying in my opinion.
I checked back and you are absolutely right, there was no medusa upgrade option for the medusa platform then.
Only the later carriage entry has this option.
But the list for R&H from the index for 8th shows "Earthshaker battery" (the platform if you see details in the datasheet), a "Medusa battery" (in theory... a platform?)
which is nowhere to be found in the index itself, so I believe there is some kind of miss in this list (the list for R&H has no carriage for example).
And some of the rarer stuff (the valdor, damnit!) found missing is pretty annoying in my opinion.
I believe they simply refer to the Carriage Battery as the Earthshaker or Medusa Battery, and the fact that there happens to be another, entirely different unit with that name is one of the many errors in the book. Since there never has been any Medusa Platform, and that the Earthshaker one is now out of production (and only remains for the benefit of the ones who bought it before that), I don't see why they would ever want to make rules for a Medusa Platform.
For the Valdor, I have two theories. The simplest one is just that they missed it, so an accident. The other is that since the Valdor could only be taken if you had a Heretek Magos Demagogue Devotion in IA13, they removed it becuase it wouldn't fit with the barebones, "generalist" renegade list you have here. While maybe not entirely likely, if you look at the DKoK list, it is more or less a copy of the Assault Brigade in IA12 and thus loses all the Carriage Batteries or Combat Engineer troops it previously had. If they get around to updating the Imperial Armour books for 8th, you might see a return to the full lists.
But yeah, R&H god shafted hard and are more or less worse AM with some Chaotic options, and the ability to include units with CHAOS instead of IMPERIUM.
For the XV9 Hazard support team, it says that a suit can take one of the abilities listed on the support systems list. Does that mean its free? Since you are not taking a support system, but the ability. It's worded different from normal crisis suits. Not sure if design intent... Or just bad rules.
I checked back and you are absolutely right, there was no medusa upgrade option for the medusa platform then.
Only the later carriage entry has this option.
But the list for R&H from the index for 8th shows "Earthshaker battery" (the platform if you see details in the datasheet), a "Medusa battery" (in theory... a platform?)
which is nowhere to be found in the index itself, so I believe there is some kind of miss in this list (the list for R&H has no carriage for example).
And some of the rarer stuff (the valdor, damnit!) found missing is pretty annoying in my opinion.
I believe they simply refer to the Carriage Battery as the Earthshaker or Medusa Battery, and the fact that there happens to be another, entirely different unit with that name is one of the many errors in the book. Since there never has been any Medusa Platform, and that the Earthshaker one is now out of production (and only remains for the benefit of the ones who bought it before that), I don't see why they would ever want to make rules for a Medusa Platform.
For the Valdor, I have two theories. The simplest one is just that they missed it, so an accident. The other is that since the Valdor could only be taken if you had a Heretek Magos Demagogue Devotion in IA13, they removed it becuase it wouldn't fit with the barebones, "generalist" renegade list you have here. While maybe not entirely likely, if you look at the DKoK list, it is more or less a copy of the Assault Brigade in IA12 and thus loses all the Carriage Batteries or Combat Engineer troops it previously had. If they get around to updating the Imperial Armour books for 8th, you might see a return to the full lists.
But yeah, R&H god shafted hard and are more or less worse AM with some Chaotic options, and the ability to include units with CHAOS instead of IMPERIUM.
Agree 100%
Got shafted for sure. Still better than the treatment the the ork range received in the index Xenos... So much stuff is simply missing.
I have a question: I read the rules for my thunderbolt a saw it can take four hellstrike missiles.
Is it one use per game per missile or can I shoot all four each turn?
I can't find anything on this.
All of the Forgeworld indexes are horrible. Everyone has tons of error, rules left out, half complete rules. an index that is not alphabetized....
I would bet they gave this entire task to a single intern and after he said its done, they just sent it off to print without a single readthrough for proofing.
Glad I went for the digital version after reading this thread. Not sure if its because I glanced over a lot but I am a bit confused why there is like artillery crews but no actual artillery for i think either DKoK or R&H.
Edit: The Medusa platform doesnt seem to be on the DKoK list?
Also noticed myself, I haven't read GW's Index yet but I imagine it's the same. Has the unit composition for guard changed now? It doesn't seem to say each platoon you need a cs, 2 squads etc, now they are just seperate units? Now banner bearers are part of the infantry squad. Is this correct? Kinda happy as it eases my wallet to get a legal squad.
Edit: Lol I completely forgot the Kytan will have rules. My favourite Khorne model next to the BT and I forgot. What is the big fella like?
unmercifulconker wrote: Glad I went for the digital version after reading this thread. Not sure if its because I glanced over a lot but I am a bit confused why there is like artillery crews but no actual artillery for i think either DKoK or R&H.
Edit: The Medusa platform doesnt seem to be on the DKoK list?
Also noticed myself, I haven't read GW's Index yet but I imagine it's the same. Has the unit composition for guard changed now? It doesn't seem to say each platoon you need a cs, 2 squads etc, now they are just seperate units? Now banner bearers are part of the infantry squad. Is this correct? Kinda happy as it eases my wallet to get a legal squad.
The Death Korps list is just an update of the Assault Brigade, which didn't have any of the static heavy artillery batteries. You can still bring them in the army without any problems though, they just won't benefit from future stuff I guess.
Platoons are gone. Infantry Squads are a troops choice, SWS are elites choice etc. Banners are only in command squads for normal guard, Krieg can take the worse one in infantry squads.
Just want to chime in regarding publishing since there have been a lot of pretty silly statements getting thrown around- I've done my own, and worked for a fairly large publisher in the USA.
Printing times (for anything fancy and full color; I've got very little experience with traditional text-only books): you can expect somewhere around a month domestically almost always for short runs that are pretty expensive for usually a compromised quality and tend to be for smaller things only, due to those first two issues; foreign runs, if it's under 3 months, you're running really efficiently and have a good relationship with that press. A book-length publication will probably have around a year creation time, assuming things run smoothly. Quicker magazine formats, and you could do maybe half that, depending on work involved and if they're in that faster domestic printing bracket. FW's actual book department seems pretty small, and I'd give them the benefit of the doubt here. Also, anyone thinking about company reaction times (GW or anyone else) and ability to produce anything (non-digital, that is), movement can be glacial.
Editing: this is just awful. There's a ton of stuff that a freelance proofreader worth a damn should have caught, let alone anyone on staff who actually knows the material. A personal (I have no idea what any industry standard is) meter of a proofreader who isn't embarrassing is, if the page is grammatically correct (minus stylistic grey areas that vary by material) and nothing on the page contradicts anything else on it, including format. Not getting to what good proofing is, FW failed to get past not embarrassing.
unmercifulconker wrote: Glad I went for the digital version after reading this thread. Not sure if its because I glanced over a lot but I am a bit confused why there is like artillery crews but no actual artillery for i think either DKoK or R&H.
Edit: The Medusa platform doesnt seem to be on the DKoK list?
Also noticed myself, I haven't read GW's Index yet but I imagine it's the same. Has the unit composition for guard changed now? It doesn't seem to say each platoon you need a cs, 2 squads etc, now they are just seperate units? Now banner bearers are part of the infantry squad. Is this correct? Kinda happy as it eases my wallet to get a legal squad.
The Death Korps list is just an update of the Assault Brigade, which didn't have any of the static heavy artillery batteries. You can still bring them in the army without any problems though, they just won't benefit from future stuff I guess.
Platoons are gone. Infantry Squads are a troops choice, SWS are elites choice etc. Banners are only in command squads for normal guard, Krieg can take the worse one in infantry squads.
Ah all good cheers fam!
Took a look at the Kytan, praise Khorne! And I thought the 2h axe Bloodthirster was a badass mf!
Reading the Elysian list I notice that my squads are once more invalidated. Sergeants can only carry swords and pistols, something FW does not cater towards with their models as is. All my sergeants have lasguns with auxiliary grenade launchers, an option glaringly absent from the list.
Looks like my Elysians will not be seeing action any time soon then..
BrookM wrote: Reading the Elysian list I notice that my squads are once more invalidated. Sergeants can only carry swords and pistols, something FW does not cater towards with their models as is. All my sergeants have lasguns with auxiliary grenade launchers, an option glaringly absent from the list.
Looks like my Elysians will not be seeing action any time soon then..
On the upside, at least you're consistent with my Cadians now!
But for reals, that sucks Brook. I don't know what stick got up their butts when it came to taking away Lasguns from Sergeants back in the first post-Doctrine book, but I hoped it would have fallen out by now.
Major Durra is also absent, also a bit annoying, but at this point it is to be expected I suppose. So much for having a heavy chainsword and shotgun wielding HQ.
My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
And yeah, Guard sergeants not able to take lasguns or shotguns any more is beyond naff. If Marines can do it, then why can't the Imperial Guard, bunch of witches.
BrookM wrote: Major Durra is also absent, also a bit annoying, but at this point it is to be expected I suppose. So much for having a heavy chainsword and shotgun wielding HQ.
My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
And yeah, Guard sergeants not able to take lasguns or shotguns any more is beyond naff. If Marines can do it, then why can't the Imperial Guard, bunch of witches.
Not just Marines.
Genestealer Cultists can in their Neophyte Squads!
BrookM wrote: Major Durra is also absent, also a bit annoying, but at this point it is to be expected I suppose. So much for having a heavy chainsword and shotgun wielding HQ.
And yeah, Guard sergeants not able to take lasguns or shotguns any more is beyond naff. If Marines can do it, then why can't the Imperial Guard, bunch of witches.
Major Markus Durra is a D-99 character, is he not? The Elysian list is not a D-99 one. I'll explain it again: the lists in the book are not "all options from all books"-lists, but based upon one incarnation. The DKoK is the Assault Brigade from IA12, I believe the Elysian one is either Taros Campaign and/or Kastorel Novem. The R&H is whatever they thought was more or less unique (and some other options) to the list. This means that some options are gone until we get more comprehensive updates. All evidence points to either FW not giving a damn about any of the books, or that they were not given sufficient time to write everything and then quality control it. This leads to the present indeces.
Also, the best regiment (read: Death Korps of Krieg) has sergeants that come with lasguns, and you can change them to laspistols and chainswords.
BrookM wrote: My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
Wait, you converted a battlecannon and demolisher cannon malcador? Was that ever an option?. I thought only the defender and annihilator could get a demolisher. It could be in one of the later IA books I guess, I was using IA1:2nd ed which doesn't have that.
BrookM wrote: My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
Wait, you converted a battlecannon and demolisher cannon malcador? Was that ever an option?. I thought only the defender and annihilator could get a demolisher. It could be in one of the later IA books I guess, I was using IA1:2nd ed which doesn't have that.
Having checked IA1 2nd, IA5 2nd, IA: Apocalypse, IA13, no, it was not an option.
BrookM wrote: My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
Wait, you converted a battlecannon and demolisher cannon malcador? Was that ever an option?. I thought only the defender and annihilator could get a demolisher. It could be in one of the later IA books I guess, I was using IA1:2nd ed which doesn't have that.
BrookM wrote: My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
Wait, you converted a battlecannon and demolisher cannon malcador? Was that ever an option?. I thought only the defender and annihilator could get a demolisher. It could be in one of the later IA books I guess, I was using IA1:2nd ed which doesn't have that.
It is for the Horus Heresy, so one would assume it would also go with 40k. I mean, they ported over the Stormhammer all of the sudden.
BrookM wrote: My Malcador heavy tank is another illegal in my collection now, as I've given her a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon, an option to the Annihilator and Defender, but not the vanilla chassis. Ffffff-
Wait, you converted a battlecannon and demolisher cannon malcador? Was that ever an option?. I thought only the defender and annihilator could get a demolisher. It could be in one of the later IA books I guess, I was using IA1:2nd ed which doesn't have that.
It is for the Horus Heresy, so one would assume it would also go with 40k. I mean, they ported over the Stormhammer all of the sudden.
Let's hope they make rules for it then. But I wouldn't get my hopes up.
All they'd need to add is the option to swap out the heavy bolter for a Demolisher cannon. But then again, it is hard as feth to give Elysian officers and NCO's the option to take lasguns, so I may just be gak out of luck on that front.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Just want to chime in regarding publishing since there have been a lot of pretty silly statements getting thrown around- I've done my own, and worked for a fairly large publisher in the USA.
Printing times (for anything fancy and full color; I've got very little experience with traditional text-only books): you can expect somewhere around a month domestically almost always for short runs that are pretty expensive for usually a compromised quality and tend to be for smaller things only, due to those first two issues; foreign runs, if it's under 3 months, you're running really efficiently and have a good relationship with that press. A book-length publication will probably have around a year creation time, assuming things run smoothly. Quicker magazine formats, and you could do maybe half that, depending on work involved and if they're in that faster domestic printing bracket. FW's actual book department seems pretty small, and I'd give them the benefit of the doubt here. Also, anyone thinking about company reaction times (GW or anyone else) and ability to produce anything (non-digital, that is), movement can be glacial.
Editing: this is just awful. There's a ton of stuff that a freelance proofreader worth a damn should have caught, let alone anyone on staff who actually knows the material. A personal (I have no idea what any industry standard is) meter of a proofreader who isn't embarrassing is, if the page is grammatically correct (minus stylistic grey areas that vary by material) and nothing on the page contradicts anything else on it, including format. Not getting to what good proofing is, FW failed to get past not embarrassing.
Anyone who bought the digital or physical book should get a refund if physical and free to got digital for a updated version. Or refund everyone. Literally one of the worst things they have done.
I've got my fingers crossed that the file(s) that have been released are not the up to date ones, but are an early version that has been put out in error (I have a vague recollection of at least one previous GW e-codex suffering from this which got fixed fairly fast),
things like calling out 19 ork entries but only having 13 (?) tend to reinforce this view (please be a cock up)
if not as Spiralingcadaver says the attempt of proof reading is appauling as there's so much wrong that even a drunk evening of checking after a hard days work should have caught it, far less any sort of professional stuff during the actual working day
This is Forge World we're talking about here, I had a feeling it would be having its share of typos, copy-paste errors and whatnot. Just didn't expect the other disappointing stuff as well.
Gah. Macharius Vulcan rules on the Community site have a dumb error in. Again, easy to fix, but so easy to spot.
Maybe I should just cancel my book. They couldn't even get it to me for release date and it's apparently not remotely been proofed. Hugely disappointing.
TheGuest wrote:I have a question: I read the rules for my thunderbolt a saw it can take four hellstrike missiles.
Is it one use per game per missile or can I shoot all four each turn?
I can't find anything on this.
bubber wrote:it'll be one per turn.
Rules as written do not mention anything about one per turn or being one shot weapons. Given that each individual missile costs as much as a normal IG Missile Launcher, I think it's intended that you can fire all four every turn. They'd be horribly overpriced for one use only weapons.
After several editions of neglect in favour of that horrible Vendetta abomination, the Thunderbolt is once again the undisputed terror of the skies.
The drill looks pretty solid for that cost-- unreliable, but tough and strong. And cool, about what I expected on the lascutter, though I'm a bit surprised it didn't have the inaccurate rule or buff vs. buildings. I guess it seems like most weapons only have one special rule now.
You roll two dice, discarding the lowest, BUT whenever they fail a morale test they lose an additional model.
Wouldn't a "but" indicate something counteracting the original penalty?
"Your mom was in an accident, but she died."
Almost certainly typo, though at least it's optional.
And not the only one, I've noticed the Scorpions Pulsar says 3 damage but it's special rule indicates it should do D6 (as it does 2D6 on 6's to wound).
In that, they should have done what they did for AoS and previously updated army lists - just put out a bunch of datasheets for the time being until they can get new books out
You guys are breaking my heart.. I don't even have the xenos book in hand yet and knowing that it's a steaming pile before it even gets here just sucks the fun out of a FW order :(
I don't realistically expect a refund but it'll be interesting to see if they're going to issue any.
MLaw wrote: You guys are breaking my heart.. I don't even have the xenos book in hand yet and knowing that it's a steaming pile before it even gets here just sucks the fun out of a FW order :(
I don't realistically expect a refund but it'll be interesting to see if they're going to issue any.
MLaw wrote: You guys are breaking my heart.. I don't even have the xenos book in hand yet and knowing that it's a steaming pile before it even gets here just sucks the fun out of a FW order :(
I don't realistically expect a refund but it'll be interesting to see if they're going to issue any.
MLaw wrote: You guys are breaking my heart.. I don't even have the xenos book in hand yet and knowing that it's a steaming pile before it even gets here just sucks the fun out of a FW order :(
I don't realistically expect a refund but it'll be interesting to see if they're going to issue any.
They do require you to pay return shipping, which is a non-trivial percentage of the cost of one of the indexes.
Since you're allowed to refused delivery of a package, you might not have to pay for return shipping if you haven't already received the book. Just contact them about a refund and don't accept the package. They'll have to send it back.
Doesn't look like they're "fixing" 7th like people were hoping for.
Where did you see that? All this said was they were consolidating some rules. The Facebook thread, they talk about other things like psychic powers, basically saying more info is to come on it. They don't at all say it's just going to be a total rehash of the system.
This post was really nothing more then a "Hey, just letting you guys know we're still working on this" thing. No real information at all was shared.
Doesn't look like they're "fixing" 7th like people were hoping for.
Where did you see that? All this said was they were consolidating some rules. The Facebook thread, they talk about other things like psychic powers, basically saying more info is to come on it. They don't at all say it's just going to be a total rehash of the system.
This post was really nothing more then a "Hey, just letting you guys know we're still working on this" thing. No real information at all was shared.
Except the part that says 'there will be no major changes to the game'.
Doesn't look like they're "fixing" 7th like people were hoping for.
Where did you see that? All this said was they were consolidating some rules. The Facebook thread, they talk about other things like psychic powers, basically saying more info is to come on it. They don't at all say it's just going to be a total rehash of the system.
This post was really nothing more then a "Hey, just letting you guys know we're still working on this" thing. No real information at all was shared.
Except the part that says 'there will be no major changes to the game'.
Well they say no major changes to HH as currently played a subtle but important difference to 40k 7th
Doesn't look like they're "fixing" 7th like people were hoping for.
Honestly, I don't know how it could be any clearer that FW is in no position to tackle any major projects like 'fixing' 7th edition. There are things in the HH books that have needed FAQs/errata for a LONG time, and that was before Inferno and some of the 'yeesh' in that book. Basically every FW project of late has been coming in months -- and sometimes many months -- behind schedule. Well okay, other than the index books, but those arrived with some of the same issues of Inferno.
There are important reasons for this, and I still really enjoy all the work they do. Just want to be clear about that. But I can't ignore what I clearly see *right in front of me* and convince myself that FW is about to launch some sublime new version of 7th ed in a matter of weeks. This is about republishing a 7th ed. rulebook since GW isn't selling them anymore. HH will be stuck with plenty of 7th ed. rules silliness and sloppiness for quite some time. It is what it is.
MLaw wrote: You guys are breaking my heart.. I don't even have the xenos book in hand yet and knowing that it's a steaming pile before it even gets here just sucks the fun out of a FW order :(
I don't realistically expect a refund but it'll be interesting to see if they're going to issue any.
They do require you to pay return shipping, which is a non-trivial percentage of the cost of one of the indexes.
Since you're allowed to refused delivery of a package, you might not have to pay for return shipping if you haven't already received the book. Just contact them about a refund and don't accept the package. They'll have to send it back.
Since it's sent without tracking it's real hard to intercept, but yes, that's possible.
I don't think anyone was expecting a major update to the rules from forgeworld, HH already does away with the worst parts of 7th edition (formations and huge disparity between codex's) but there is just one or two things we HOPE they tidy up. Mainly the pyshic phase.
The hash job they have done with the index's for 8th doesn't really give me great confidence, hopefully it's because A; they rushed it to meet a deadline or B; their rules guys are busy with HH stuff and they let a janitor do it?
The Psychic phase is the major problem I have with 7th edition, in particular the psychic powers. Those needed an almost total redo in order to make the powers balanced and useful, instead of ranging from useless to Invisibility. Also, get rid of random rolling for Warlord traits and the psychic powers.
krazynadechukr wrote: Wait, what? Did I miss something? Why these "refunds" and panics? What happened?
The FW indexes have some really poor editing, and (I think?) some people were saying they were missing info advertised.
Online internet hardman hysteria mainly. The editing is bad in some places yes, but it hardly makes all the books worthless.
"I'm not going to play with any of my forgeworld models anymore because GW wrote preceding instead of following in a rule, take that GW!"
More like people finding they can't play with many of their FW minis any more as they aren't in the index and so have no official rules any more (unless used as a proxy for something else in which case they might as well have saved their cash and used them as proxies for something in the main indexes)
I think it's more a case of when people are spending £100+ on a model from Forge World they expect them to at least proof-read the rules for said models, or not to make said model less useful than one costing 1/3 the price from GW.
Doesn't look like they're "fixing" 7th like people were hoping for.
Where did you see that? All this said was they were consolidating some rules. The Facebook thread, they talk about other things like psychic powers, basically saying more info is to come on it. They don't at all say it's just going to be a total rehash of the system.
This post was really nothing more then a "Hey, just letting you guys know we're still working on this" thing. No real information at all was shared.
I see it as a sneaky announcement that their new head rules writer is Neil Wylie.
krazynadechukr wrote: Wait, what? Did I miss something? Why these "refunds" and panics? What happened?
The FW indexes have some really poor editing, and (I think?) some people were saying they were missing info advertised.
Online internet hardman hysteria mainly. The editing is bad in some places yes, but it hardly makes all the books worthless.
"I'm not going to play with any of my forgeworld models anymore because GW wrote preceding instead of following in a rule, take that GW!"
More like people finding they can't play with many of their FW minis any more as they aren't in the index and so have no official rules any more (unless used as a proxy for something else in which case they might as well have saved their cash and used them as proxies for something in the main indexes)
I cannot agree more.
Ask your fellow ork players...
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
Renegades and Heretics. 12 pages. 15 datasheets.
Chaos Covenant says if the Commander is the Warlord you can set the CHAOS COVENANT Keyword to whatever covenant he has. It doesn't say what to do with that keyword if you don't have a Commander as your Warlord. Can you set the Covenant of each unit to whatever you want? Does that keyword just vanish?
They can take a "Medusa Battery" but the only unit similar to that is "Medusa Carriage Battery". This isn't a trivial error as they can take an "Earthshaker Battery" while there are entries for both "Earthshaker Battery" and "Earthshaker Carriage Battery".
They can take AM transports but since they aren't AM, they can't actually ride in the transports.
Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers: Only the Pack Master has CHAOS COVENANT so how do the covenants work with a mixed unit? (The Hounds have no keywords at all)
Renegade Ogryn Brutes: Sheet says 3-12, price list says 1-5.
Renegade Plague Ogryn: Sheet says 3-9, price list says 3-6.
This unit replaces <CHAOS COVENANT> with <NURGLE> similar to how <LEGION> and such work. It then has a rule that effects non-<NURGLE> units. Is that Covenant <NURGLE> units, as distinct from Mark of Chaos <NURGLE> units, similar to how Legion <MADEUPNAME> is not the same as Craftworld <MADEUPNAME>?
... I'd say that's a wee bit more than "a dozen typo errors" as that's only a small subsection of the book, but yes, it's not 70-80%.
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
Renegades and Heretics. 12 pages. 15 datasheets.
Chaos Covenant says if the Commander is the Warlord you can set the CHAOS COVENANT Keyword to whatever covenant he has. It doesn't say what to do with that keyword if you don't have a Commander as your Warlord. Can you set the Covenant of each unit to whatever you want? Does that keyword just vanish?
They can take a "Medusa Battery" but the only unit similar to that is "Medusa Carriage Battery". This isn't a trivial error as they can take an "Earthshaker Battery" while there are entries for both "Earthshaker Battery" and "Earthshaker Carriage Battery".
They can take AM transports but since they aren't AM, they can't actually ride in the transports.
Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers: Only the Pack Master has CHAOS COVENANT so how do the covenants work with a mixed unit? (The Hounds have no keywords at all)
Renegade Ogryn Brutes: Sheet says 3-12, price list says 1-5.
Renegade Plague Ogryn: Sheet says 3-9, price list says 3-6.
This unit replaces <CHAOS COVENANT> with <NURGLE> similar to how <LEGION> and such work. It then has a rule that effects non-<NURGLE> units. Is that Covenant <NURGLE> units, as distinct from Mark of Chaos <NURGLE> units, similar to how Legion <MADEUPNAME> is not the same as Craftworld <MADEUPNAME>?
... I'd say that's a wee bit more than "a dozen typo errors" as that's only a small subsection of the book, but yes, it's not 70-80%.
It's multiple dozens at least. This book is a complete disgrace and an insult to players. Defending it is just another symptom of why we'll never get an actual well thought out rule system.
Secutarii in 8th Edition- Forge World Responds
BigJon recently got in touch with Forge World about the Secutarii rules and their status in 8th Edition since many have noticed that they aren't in Imperial Armour- Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum. Here was the response he received:
"Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for the email, As far as we are aware the Mechanicum Sekutarii and the Ordinatus that all had a warhammer 40,000 stat sheet will have a new data sheet in the forth coming Forge world campaign book Fires of Cryxis.
We are requesting that the rules team release these data sheets ahead of the book release as it would be great for all of those that own these units to start using them as soon as possible.
Whilst we wait for our rules team to get back to us regarding this we would ask that you bare with us as it may be a few weeks before we hear anything further.
Until the New campaign has been announce and released we are not sure what other Mechanicum units will make the leap from the 30k universe to the 40k universe though we eager and exited to find out.
Please keep an eye on our community forum updates and Facebook posts for all of the latest and official announcements regarding rules and products.
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.
I think you guys may be interpreting his statement differently than he intended. He's saying that 4 out of 5 indexes contain some sort of error, not that 4/5ths of indexes as a whole are incorrect or 4/5ths of each index is wrong. A single error like one misspelled word on one rule on a full page index would count as a error and therefore include that whole page. I don't have the index so can't comment on it personally but if so many entries have rookie mistakes like that then I'd agree that they put out a very unprofessional product.
I think my biggest problem with the FW index books is that they did NOT contain everything they were advertised to have. Saying there are 19 Ork entries when there are only 14 is a huge letdown.
As I've already mentioned here on Dakka and all the R&H online groups, the 8th R&H army publication is the worst and most embarrassing thing Forge World has ever produced, both from a publication as well as from a game design perspective, for all the reasons already mentioned here numerous times. It is a black stain on their record and is so bad as to be insulting to the players.
We can only hope they dramatically revamp the army in a full publication within a short time frame, but I suspect those of us who play the army will be stuck getting the middle finger from FW for quite some time.
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.
I think you guys may be interpreting his statement differently than he intended. He's saying that 4 out of 5 indexes contain some sort of error, not that 4/5ths of indexes as a whole are incorrect or 4/5ths of each index is wrong. A single error like one misspelled word on one rule on a full page index would count as a error and therefore include that whole page. I don't have the index so can't comment on it personally but if so many entries have rookie mistakes like that then I'd agree that they put out a very unprofessional product.
That would have made some sense if there were 5 FW indexes. But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs
Platuan4th wrote: Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.
"Hyperbole to the extreme" sounds rather hyperbolic. (-:
If you look at the current FAQ compilation you can see the sheer number of weird things that have been spotted. There are more than "some issues". Then there are the weird points anomalies which just seem wrong but it is hard to tell.
Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?
str00dles1 wrote: Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."
Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.
Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.
70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.
Renegades and Heretics. 12 pages. 15 datasheets.
Chaos Covenant says if the Commander is the Warlord you can set the CHAOS COVENANT Keyword to whatever covenant he has. It doesn't say what to do with that keyword if you don't have a Commander as your Warlord. Can you set the Covenant of each unit to whatever you want? Does that keyword just vanish?
They can take a "Medusa Battery" but the only unit similar to that is "Medusa Carriage Battery". This isn't a trivial error as they can take an "Earthshaker Battery" while there are entries for both "Earthshaker Battery" and "Earthshaker Carriage Battery".
They can take AM transports but since they aren't AM, they can't actually ride in the transports.
Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers: Only the Pack Master has CHAOS COVENANT so how do the covenants work with a mixed unit? (The Hounds have no keywords at all)
Renegade Ogryn Brutes: Sheet says 3-12, price list says 1-5.
Renegade Plague Ogryn: Sheet says 3-9, price list says 3-6.
This unit replaces <CHAOS COVENANT> with <NURGLE> similar to how <LEGION> and such work. It then has a rule that effects non-<NURGLE> units. Is that Covenant <NURGLE> units, as distinct from Mark of Chaos <NURGLE> units, similar to how Legion <MADEUPNAME> is not the same as Craftworld <MADEUPNAME>?
... I'd say that's a wee bit more than "a dozen typo errors" as that's only a small subsection of the book, but yes, it's not 70-80%.
FWIW, here are some of the issues from just eight Tyranid datasheets:
Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.
Malanthropes give -1 to hit models within 3" (rather than units) which cannot work in the core rules.
Malanthrope points are way out of line with ability and power level.
Stonecrusher Bio-Flail attacks can be interpreted to work three different ways.
Hierophants re-use a Scything Talon weapon name from the main GW index with a totally different profile and points value.
Scything Talons are inconsistently listed for the Harridan and both Hierodules compared to what's on the models and the GW index.
ph34r wrote: Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?
cuda1179 wrote: I think my biggest problem with the FW index books is that they did NOT contain everything they were advertised to have. Saying there are 19 Ork entries when there are only 14 is a huge letdown.
I cannot agree more.
I would have not even considered buying if there was only the 14 that was previewed.
Too much entries were missing, period.
I ended buying the digital version, just to find what I still think is a huge letdown also.
Peregrine wrote: Oh hey, and the dumpster fire continues. FW didn't bother putting the flyer movement restrictions on the Marauders, so my heavy bomber can now out-turn air superiority fighters.
I don't think things like this mean 8th is a "dumpster fire" (that term describes 6th/7th pretty well, IMO). It simply means it's Forge World being Forge World when it comes to rules, proofreading, editing....
ph34r wrote: Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?
Ah yes Fires of Cyraxus. This alleged FW book that will bring 30k into 40k and unveil new Tau units coming out soon. We have dismissed this claim.
xttz wrote: Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.
That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!
MaxT wrote: But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs
There's another way to take it: The truth.
You're just nitpicking what they said "Well if it's not exactly 4/5ths of the rules, then it's hyperbole" and basically ignoring the growing litany of problems with the book. Just look at the Chaos Renegade and Tyranid problems. You think those armies are alone in having issues?
I don't suppose we'll get a small addendum or errata included for the Master of Ordnance, that his "Master of Ballistics" special rule can also be used on the various artillery pieces done by FW.
I mean, I've finally got three Earthshaker carriages (maybe) on the way, would be nice if I could park one of my various Masters of Ordnance alongside them for that extra oomph.
xttz wrote: Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.
That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!
MaxT wrote: But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs
There's another way to take it: The truth.
You're just nitpicking what they said "Well if it's not exactly 4/5ths of the rules, then it's hyperbole" and basically ignoring the growing litany of problems with the book. Just look at the Chaos Renegade and Tyranid problems. You think those armies are alone in having issues?
To be fair the problems aren't as extensive as some people are making them out to be. For the the Xenos factions there seems to be only one or two problems at most, Renegades and AM seem to be the only lists that have really suffered here (well, and Corsairs since they're no longer an army at all now). Most of the entries still work fine and there's quite a few things that I intend to add to my armies from Forge World now.
Thats not to excuse the problems though, this complete and total lack of proof reading absolutely should not have happened.
xttz wrote: Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.
That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!
On the upside, I just saw this posted on another forum:
From: Forgeworld [mailto:forgeworld@gwplc.com]
Sent: 28 June 2017 11:08
To: Mauler
Subject: Re: Scythed Hierodule Feedback
Hi xxxx,
Thanks for the email, currently your rules team have requested we gather as many questions as we can related to the new index books and rules that may not be present, clear or need addressing in future FAQ's.
As such we are not able to answer individual questions as they come in but rather add them to our list to send over to the designers as requested to address at a later date.
Rest assured, we will tag and categorize your email and forward it on and soon we should see an FAQ for the new data sheets and units that we have had questions about.
Our rules team have already made an FAQ for the Dimachaeron which is as follows
Rule should be:
When Targeting Infantry units, each hit roll of a 6+ made with the weapon is resolved at Strength x2 and Damage D6.
They seem pretty inconsistent about answering emails too: I'm still waiting on one I sent ten days ago about no version of the Contemptor having rules for the missile launcher part they sell, and didn't get anything back at all when I asked some questions about Custodes when Inferno came out.
I'm thinking I'll do a follow-up email this time around rather than let it pass though, probably about the three week mark.
xttz wrote: Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.
That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!
MaxT wrote: But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs
There's another way to take it: The truth.
You're just nitpicking what they said "Well if it's not exactly 4/5ths of the rules, then it's hyperbole" and basically ignoring the growing litany of problems with the book. Just look at the Chaos Renegade and Tyranid problems. You think those armies are alone in having issues?
To be fair the problems aren't as extensive as some people are making them out to be. For the the Xenos factions there seems to be only one or two problems at most, Renegades and AM seem to be the only lists that have really suffered here (well, and Corsairs since they're no longer an army at all now). Most of the entries still work fine and there's quite a few things that I intend to add to my armies from Forge World now.
Thats not to excuse the problems though, this complete and total lack of proof reading absolutely should not have happened.
One or two problems at most? You are joking right?
Can't tell about necron or eldar, but about half the tau slates have obvious mistakes, inconcictancies or unclear rules (and not "lawyer trap" unclear, full blown "I honestly don't know if it has X or not, or if I pay points for Y, or what Z even does, with rare cases of rules from 7th that 8th got away with being referred)
And that's before going into" why on earth you did it this stupid way" cases like the high intensity markerlight, rules not given to things that are actually on the model, units losing things they used to have (while that thing still very much exists) mismatch between points and power levels (two models with no options, one is more expensive in points, but in power its the other way around), or really dumb overpricing of a few things
The xenos index is really poorly made.
As in, single employee spent a day, tops, quality level.
And that's before going into" why on earth you did it this stupid way" cases like the high intensity markerlight, rules not given to things that are actually on the model, units losing things they used to have (while that thing still very much exists) mismatch between points and power levels (two models with no options, one is more expensive in points, but in power its the other way around), or really dumb overpricing of a few things
Almost all of these "problems" are subjective problems rather than objective quality issues, though. "Really dumb overpricing" has always been an "issue" with Forgeworld units due to them erring on the side of caution, High Intensity Markerlights work as intended(they're just not GOOD), and units losing previous things is a GW edition change symptom since forever.
Once you take out the subjective issues like these that not everyone sees as problems, the amount of actual issues isn't as many as is being stated, barring the Renegades by volume.
For Necrons at least I can't see any obvious errors: I guess the death ray option on the Sentry Pylon is really obviously useless at a glance and that might be a misprint, but it'd hardly be the only unit to have a gun option no right-minded person would take when an obviously better profile or two is below it.
Other than that the Flyer and Terrain Piece are wimpy, but I think those are just genuinely poor units rather than a n FAQ requiring mistake.
And that's before going into" why on earth you did it this stupid way" cases like the high intensity markerlight, rules not given to things that are actually on the model, units losing things they used to have (while that thing still very much exists) mismatch between points and power levels (two models with no options, one is more expensive in points, but in power its the other way around), or really dumb overpricing of a few things
Almost all of these "problems" are subjective problems rather than objective quality issues, though. "Really dumb overpricing" has always been an "issue" with Forgeworld units due to them erring on the side of caution, High Intensity Markerlights work as intended(they're just not GOOD), and units losing previous things is a GW edition change symptom since forever.
Once you take out the subjective issues like these that not everyone sees as problems, the amount of actual issues isn't as many as is being stated, barring the Renegades by volume.
HIM might work as intended, but they way its intended looks as if they didn't even read how markerlights work in 8th, because it honestly makes no sense.
Dumb pricing can be just bad, but at some point it goes beyond bad
And that's why I said half have obvious issues BEFORE you go into these kind of oddities.
I'm talking half have issues when you count ONLY things like missing rules, or obvious point oddballs/errors/omissions.
Ralai missing a pulse submmunition shot on his pulse submmunition rifle, or the XV9's photon casters), his marker drones lack the stable platform rule (so does heavy gun drones)
Ralai also have different T value from XV9, despite sharing the same suit, for no apparent reason. (the only char i know of that has the same armor and different T from his corresponding unit)
Speaking of XV9s, they don't take a support system, they take "one of the abilities listed", so, is it a system you pay for or not?
R'myr upgraded shield generator is identical to a regular shield generator.
Turrent drones immobile repair rule just makes no sense when referring to vehicle repair/ rendering immobile/forcing to move, its not even a vehicle. Also they can't be taken as compulsory troops. except they are no longer troops.
Hammerheads that are identical to GW index but cost WAY different (and even different from each other despite being identical)
Swiftstrike railgun-its exactly like a HRR, except shorter range, and costs more. one the flipside, a long-barrled ion cannon has longer range, it's extra hits ability on large units works on overcharge too (unlike the regular), and it costs less.
Y'Vahra does not say if it can or cannot move after using his "leave table then come back" rule, as unlike most thing that come from off table, he does so at the begining of the move phase, rather than the end.
Railshark has a macro gun, except it's not titanic, and can't stand still, so legally it can never fire.
Remoras referring to the target lock, despite never being mentioned they actually have one-do they have it? do they pay?
These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.
ph34r wrote: Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?
Yes on the first part. Unknown on the second.
Uh, no. It's known.
Fires of Cyraxus was going to be a campaign book with rules for the Heresy stuff for the Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii forces fighting against the Tau.
thank you for your email. We can provide you with our interpretation of the rules, but any official ruling would come as part of an Errata or FAQ from the Forge World Studio.
We would suggest using it as per the Venomthrope rules as a unit rather than a model. With regards to the flyer keyword as it is not included in its rules currently, it doesn't get it, but we have put it forward as a question to the Forge World studio team with regards to any future FAQ etc.
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BoomWolf wrote: The xenos index is really poorly made.
As in, single employee spent a day, tops, quality level.
Okay, I think the indexes are junk, too. But seriously, I can't tell if this stuff is hyperbolic, rude, or just uninformed.
Any volume of writing like that takes time, and, as others pointed out, one of their lead creators died recently and was sick before.
This job was clearly rushed and poor, but as insulting as it is to consumers for such a poorly proofed product to reach us, it's also I think pretty rude for you to suggest that the work they did took no time.
Personally, I'm irritated that it's so obviously a rush job, and that they should have taken the time to get it right, but I expect that there was a lot of pressure from inside the company to get everything up at once.
I've noticed a few problems browsing through the eldar section.
Nightwing and pheonix are listed as fast attack they very clearly are flyers and have all the eldar flyer rules including a minimum movement. (Prevents them from being part of an air wing allows, you to take flyers 8n fast attack if you already exceeded your slots or to fill a minimum outrider slot).
Vampire Hunter and raider not as clear but almost certainly should have the new super heavy flyer rule that thunderhawk stormbird and manta have. The rule gives benefits but it also means you don't measure to it's non existent non compulsory base which isn't even close to the size of its over 1 foot wingspan and length.
Eldar scorpion Grav tank it's pulsar is dmg 3 but if it roles a 6 it says treat this as dmg2d6 instead of d6. So either it's bonus rule is wrong and it's damage is different compared to both other pulsars. Or they messed up the damage there.
Nothing else seems glaringly wrong other than maybe the revenant max invulnerable should be attainable without having to advance and therefore not shoot.
BoomWolf wrote: The xenos index is really poorly made.
As in, single employee spent a day, tops, quality level.
Okay, I think the indexes are junk, too. But seriously, I can't tell if this stuff is hyperbolic, rude, or just uninformed.
Any volume of writing like that takes time, and, as others pointed out, one of their lead creators died recently and was sick before.
This job was clearly rushed and poor, but as insulting as it is to consumers for such a poorly proofed product to reach us, it's also I think pretty rude for you to suggest that the work they did took no time.
Personally, I'm irritated that it's so obviously a rush job, and that they should have taken the time to get it right, but I expect that there was a lot of pressure from inside the company to get everything up at once.
It might be a little rude directly to their face, but it's perfectly acceptable use of conversational hyperbole to suggest a poorly made document is done in an afternoon by an intern or whatever.
It's frankly bizzare the basic communication tools that trip people up on the Internet at times.
changemod wrote: It might be a little rude directly to their face, but it's perfectly acceptable use of conversational hyperbole to suggest a poorly made document is done in an afternoon by an intern or whatever.
It's frankly bizzare the basic communication tools that trip people up on the Internet at times.
BoomWolf wrote: The xenos index is really poorly made.
As in, single employee spent a day, tops, quality level.
Okay, I think the indexes are junk, too. But seriously, I can't tell if this stuff is hyperbolic, rude, or just uninformed.
Any volume of writing like that takes time, and, as others pointed out, one of their lead creators died recently and was sick before.
This job was clearly rushed and poor, but as insulting as it is to consumers for such a poorly proofed product to reach us, it's also I think pretty rude for you to suggest that the work they did took no time.
Personally, I'm irritated that it's so obviously a rush job, and that they should have taken the time to get it right, but I expect that there was a lot of pressure from inside the company to get everything up at once.
It might be a little rude directly to their face, but it's perfectly acceptable use of conversational hyperbole to suggest a poorly made document is done in an afternoon by an intern or whatever.
It's frankly bizzare the basic communication tools that trip people up on the Internet at times.
Also, considering many units are variants of GW index units, they are a copy-paste then edit, and even THESE failed horribly at times (as in, forgot to copy an important rule, or gave a totally different point cost for no reason, or whatever)-I'm honestly not sure its not a one-day-job.
xttz wrote: Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.
That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!
MaxT wrote: But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs
There's another way to take it: The truth.
You're just nitpicking what they said "Well if it's not exactly 4/5ths of the rules, then it's hyperbole" and basically ignoring the growing litany of problems with the book. Just look at the Chaos Renegade and Tyranid problems. You think those armies are alone in having issues?
To be fair the problems aren't as extensive as some people are making them out to be. For the the Xenos factions there seems to be only one or two problems at most, Renegades and AM seem to be the only lists that have really suffered here (well, and Corsairs since they're no longer an army at all now). Most of the entries still work fine and there's quite a few things that I intend to add to my armies from Forge World now.
Thats not to excuse the problems though, this complete and total lack of proof reading absolutely should not have happened.
There are about 3 units which have the keyword <COTERIE> or where they include the word CORSAIR (e.g. CORSAIR REAVER BAND), 2 jetbike and 1 infantry. There is no army list anymore, no princes and almost no special rules. You play Eldar (Craftworld or Dark) with a few corsair units now.
There are about 3 units which have the keyword <COTERIE> or where they include the word CORSAIR (e.g. CORSAIR REAVER BAND), 2 jetbike and 1 infantry. There is no army list anymore, no princes and almost no special rules. You play Eldar (Craftworld or Dark) with a few corsair units now.
There are about 3 units which have the keyword <COTERIE> or where they include the word CORSAIR (e.g. CORSAIR REAVER BAND), 2 jetbike and 1 infantry. There is no army list anymore, no princes and almost no special rules. You play Eldar (Craftworld or Dark) with a few corsair units now.
I don't suppose there's any reason given...
None, but the general feeling is that the books were rushed. If that was because Forgeworld were told about the new edition a week before they had to send the books for printing or something else, we don't know. I think they'll return when they are given a more comprehensive book, but that would be a least one or two years from now.
I was planning on visiting Warhammer World for the first time this year and was wondering wether to hold my forgeworld order for now and do it all at Nottingham. It would be a good space to save up, but is going to an open day a good idea for a first time? Would it be too crowded to be able to enjoy everything such as the dioramas and stuff? Do they clear any of the normal space for ForgeWorld, for example do they clear some of the cabinets or will the experience stay the same?
unmercifulconker wrote: I was planning on visiting Warhammer World for the first time this year and was wondering wether to hold my forgeworld order for now and do it all at Nottingham. It would be a good space to save up, but is going to an open day a good idea for a first time? Would it be too crowded to be able to enjoy everything such as the dioramas and stuff? Do they clear any of the normal space for ForgeWorld, for example do they clear some of the cabinets or will the experience stay the same?
It's been a few years since I've been, but they use the gaming hall; the display areas are totally separate and should be open as usual (although you can email the events team to check).
Yeah I saw that. I get notifications on my email from Forgeworld on new releases & I am about to unsubscribe. Years of back to back to back to back to back space marine releases.
Its too much. I wrote them a letter & apparently custodes are all the rage right now and are selling like hotcakes. I don't know how. They are the elite of the elite. How many would any one person honestly need of them? They are extremely expensive to deploy so by default you will only need a handful of them.
Meanwhile armies like orks, nids, IG etc which require literally hundreds of bodies haven't seen an update in emperor knows how many years. I guess all we can hope for is maybe they will start releasing cool terrain pieces again someday like they use to. Many of the OOP terrain pieces sell for hundreds of dollars on Ebay. No idea why they stopped producing them.
Yeah I saw that. I get notifications on my email from Forgeworld on new releases & I am about to unsubscribe. Years of back to back to back to back to back space marine releases.
Its too much. I wrote them a letter & apparently custodes are all the rage right now and are selling like hotcakes. I don't know how. They are the elite of the elite. How many would any one person honestly need of them? They are extremely expensive to deploy so by default you will only need a handful of them.
Meanwhile armies like orks, nids, IG etc which require literally hundreds of bodies haven't seen an update in emperor knows how many years. I guess all we can hope for is maybe they will start releasing cool terrain pieces again someday like they use to. Many of the OOP terrain pieces sell for hundreds of dollars on Ebay. No idea why they stopped producing them.
Then again owning army of custodes is much more feasible for most than army of hordes. Just check how much army of HH militia costs from FW and weep.
Resin is pretty bad material for horde armies. Too expensive. Not surprising elite models sells like hot cake though as you need less of them to constitute significant force.
mortar_crew wrote: A great third of my ork FW collection begs to differ...
Of those Orks, which ones are still being made?
Well since technically, most of the line has been axed, you may have a point but still:
-Mega Dread
-All Gun trukk variants (FW trukks and guns still sold)
are missing.
As said before there are trukkload of oop models in the imperial book alone.
Why so few for the orks?
Ok they are green, and do not sell as much as space marines...
And do not get me started with the fact that they annouced 19 datasheets on the site,
and we got 14 in the book...
unmercifulconker wrote: I was planning on visiting Warhammer World for the first time this year and was wondering wether to hold my forgeworld order for now and do it all at Nottingham. It would be a good space to save up, but is going to an open day a good idea for a first time? Would it be too crowded to be able to enjoy everything such as the dioramas and stuff? Do they clear any of the normal space for ForgeWorld, for example do they clear some of the cabinets or will the experience stay the same?
It's been a few years since I've been, but they use the gaming hall; the display areas are totally separate and should be open as usual (although you can email the events team to check).
Thanks. Oh that's good, I wont be needing the gaming hall.
I don't understand how theres people that still is pissed about FW making 95% HH marines.
Is like... they did made "Bolter-Porn 2: The Wargame: Historical Edition" and everybody and his mother jumped to play it. Is like asking McDonald to stop doing hamburguers
Do we ever get news of what's up for grabs before the open days or is it always a surprise?
Typically a weekly drip feed of info on stuff without pricing, usually at least one item is not shown and w I'll be on the leaflet you get whilst queuing. The last thing I went to, New Years open day, they'd finally employed common sense and limited mass purchases of early releases to stop scalping and sell outs early on. 1-2 of stuff was the limit, anything more and you had to nail order it with free postage.
For open days the back open room is accessible usually with previews, talk to designers etc plus you've still got the exhibition to go around and golden demon entries.
I expect the updated Tigershark to be there for sale, but this isn't the fist time I've said this. Hopefully it is on sale. Also if there are any new models for Tau coming out like they implied all those months ago then this is probably one of the last major events of the year to show them at. As usual ask about Fires of Cyraxus if you can folks and see if they have even started it yet. Honestly I am beginning to doubt any more xenos models for the rest of the year from both GW and FW.
Do we ever get news of what's up for grabs before the open days or is it always a surprise?
Typically a weekly drip feed of info on stuff without pricing, usually at least one item is not shown and w I'll be on the leaflet you get whilst queuing. The last thing I went to, New Years open day, they'd finally employed common sense and limited mass purchases of early releases to stop scalping and sell outs early on. 1-2 of stuff was the limit, anything more and you had to nail order it with free postage.
For open days the back open room is accessible usually with previews, talk to designers etc plus you've still got the exhibition to go around and golden demon entries.
Ooh, I wonder what they'll show off this time. Proabably not to many new minis, they still have all those ones from the HH weekender left to release, but they might show of a new Primarch or some other character. Blood angels?
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