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 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

MaxT wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Wait, what? Did I miss something? Why these "refunds" and panics? What happened?

The FW indexes have some really poor editing, and (I think?) some people were saying they were missing info advertised.

Online internet hardman hysteria mainly. The editing is bad in some places yes, but it hardly makes all the books worthless.

"I'm not going to play with any of my forgeworld models anymore because GW wrote preceding instead of following in a rule, take that GW!"

More like people finding they can't play with many of their FW minis any more as they aren't in the index and so have no official rules any more (unless used as a proxy for something else in which case they might as well have saved their cash and used them as proxies for something in the main indexes)

I cannot agree more.
Ask your fellow ork players...

Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

MaxT wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.

MaxT wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

Renegades and Heretics. 12 pages. 15 datasheets.

Chaos Covenant says if the Commander is the Warlord you can set the CHAOS COVENANT Keyword to whatever covenant he has. It doesn't say what to do with that keyword if you don't have a Commander as your Warlord. Can you set the Covenant of each unit to whatever you want? Does that keyword just vanish?

They can take a "Medusa Battery" but the only unit similar to that is "Medusa Carriage Battery". This isn't a trivial error as they can take an "Earthshaker Battery" while there are entries for both "Earthshaker Battery" and "Earthshaker Carriage Battery".

They can take AM transports but since they aren't AM, they can't actually ride in the transports.

Renegade Commander isn't a Character.

Renegade Command Squad: Sheet says 4 Disciples + 5 or +10. Points page says 4 only.

Renegade Enforcer isn't a Character.

Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers: Only the Pack Master has CHAOS COVENANT so how do the covenants work with a mixed unit? (The Hounds have no keywords at all)

Renegade Ogryn Brutes: Sheet says 3-12, price list says 1-5.

Renegade Plague Ogryn: Sheet says 3-9, price list says 3-6.
This unit replaces <CHAOS COVENANT> with <NURGLE> similar to how <LEGION> and such work. It then has a rule that effects non-<NURGLE> units. Is that Covenant <NURGLE> units, as distinct from Mark of Chaos <NURGLE> units, similar to how Legion <MADEUPNAME> is not the same as Craftworld <MADEUPNAME>?

... I'd say that's a wee bit more than "a dozen typo errors" as that's only a small subsection of the book, but yes, it's not 70-80%.

skarsol wrote:

MaxT wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

Renegades and Heretics. 12 pages. 15 datasheets.

Chaos Covenant says if the Commander is the Warlord you can set the CHAOS COVENANT Keyword to whatever covenant he has. It doesn't say what to do with that keyword if you don't have a Commander as your Warlord. Can you set the Covenant of each unit to whatever you want? Does that keyword just vanish?

They can take a "Medusa Battery" but the only unit similar to that is "Medusa Carriage Battery". This isn't a trivial error as they can take an "Earthshaker Battery" while there are entries for both "Earthshaker Battery" and "Earthshaker Carriage Battery".

They can take AM transports but since they aren't AM, they can't actually ride in the transports.

Renegade Commander isn't a Character.

Renegade Command Squad: Sheet says 4 Disciples + 5 or +10. Points page says 4 only.

Renegade Enforcer isn't a Character.

Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers: Only the Pack Master has CHAOS COVENANT so how do the covenants work with a mixed unit? (The Hounds have no keywords at all)

Renegade Ogryn Brutes: Sheet says 3-12, price list says 1-5.

Renegade Plague Ogryn: Sheet says 3-9, price list says 3-6.
This unit replaces <CHAOS COVENANT> with <NURGLE> similar to how <LEGION> and such work. It then has a rule that effects non-<NURGLE> units. Is that Covenant <NURGLE> units, as distinct from Mark of Chaos <NURGLE> units, similar to how Legion <MADEUPNAME> is not the same as Craftworld <MADEUPNAME>?

... I'd say that's a wee bit more than "a dozen typo errors" as that's only a small subsection of the book, but yes, it's not 70-80%.

It's multiple dozens at least. This book is a complete disgrace and an insult to players. Defending it is just another symptom of why we'll never get an actual well thought out rule system.

Well at least, those who just bought the digital version do not have to worry about shipping issues...
Or refund either?

From Titan Owners Club:


Secutarii in 8th Edition- Forge World Responds
BigJon recently got in touch with Forge World about the Secutarii rules and their status in 8th Edition since many have noticed that they aren't in Imperial Armour- Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum. Here was the response he received:

"Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for the email, As far as we are aware the Mechanicum Sekutarii and the Ordinatus that all had a warhammer 40,000 stat sheet will have a new data sheet in the forth coming Forge world campaign book Fires of Cryxis.

We are requesting that the rules team release these data sheets ahead of the book release as it would be great for all of those that own these units to start using them as soon as possible.

Whilst we wait for our rules team to get back to us regarding this we would ask that you bare with us as it may be a few weeks before we hear anything further.

Until the New campaign has been announce and released we are not sure what other Mechanicum units will make the leap from the 30k universe to the 40k universe though we eager and exited to find out.

Please keep an eye on our community forum updates and Facebook posts for all of the latest and official announcements regarding rules and products.

Thanks again"

At least the book doesn't seem TOO far off then?

Edit: Also more 30k to 40k robots hype.

 Platuan4th wrote:

MaxT wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.

I think you guys may be interpreting his statement differently than he intended. He's saying that 4 out of 5 indexes contain some sort of error, not that 4/5ths of indexes as a whole are incorrect or 4/5ths of each index is wrong. A single error like one misspelled word on one rule on a full page index would count as a error and therefore include that whole page. I don't have the index so can't comment on it personally but if so many entries have rookie mistakes like that then I'd agree that they put out a very unprofessional product.

For feths sake, can FW not spell "Cyraxus" correctly?

Good to know it's soon^TM (although soon means next winter probs)

Edit: Proof that I'm not insane:

 Verviedi wrote:
For feths sake, can FW not spell "Cyraxus" correctly?

Good to know it's soon^TM (although soon means next winter probs)

Edit: Proof that I'm not insane:

Spoiler:

Cool a Hunchback!

 unmercifulconker wrote:
to the 40k universe though we eager and exited to find out.

I get that it's not a book, but that's some fine use of language

Plasma Mortar > AC/20, although AC/20s certainly make a better noise when fired.

Thanatars do look suspiciously like Hunchbacks, now that you mention it...

 Verviedi wrote:
Plasma Mortar > AC/20, although AC/20s certainly make a better noise when fired.

Thanatars do look suspiciously like Hunchbacks, now that you mention it...

I just thinking the other day that the Thanatar-Calix looks like a chubby Hollander

I think my biggest problem with the FW index books is that they did NOT contain everything they were advertised to have. Saying there are 19 Ork entries when there are only 14 is a huge letdown.

As I've already mentioned here on Dakka and all the R&H online groups, the 8th R&H army publication is the worst and most embarrassing thing Forge World has ever produced, both from a publication as well as from a game design perspective, for all the reasons already mentioned here numerous times. It is a black stain on their record and is so bad as to be insulting to the players.

We can only hope they dramatically revamp the army in a full publication within a short time frame, but I suspect those of us who play the army will be stuck getting the middle finger from FW for quite some time.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
to the 40k universe though we eager and exited to find out.

I get that it's not a book, but that's some fine use of language

Hahaha, didn't even notice this.

 warboss wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

MaxT wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.

I think you guys may be interpreting his statement differently than he intended. He's saying that 4 out of 5 indexes contain some sort of error, not that 4/5ths of indexes as a whole are incorrect or 4/5ths of each index is wrong. A single error like one misspelled word on one rule on a full page index would count as a error and therefore include that whole page. I don't have the index so can't comment on it personally but if so many entries have rookie mistakes like that then I'd agree that they put out a very unprofessional product.

That would have made some sense if there were 5 FW indexes. But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs

 Platuan4th wrote:
Indeed. Yes, there are some issues, especially with the Xenos book, but to claim 4/5's of the entire body of work is in error is hyperbole to the extreme.

"Hyperbole to the extreme" sounds rather hyperbolic. (-:

If you look at the current FAQ compilation you can see the sheer number of weird things that have been spotted. There are more than "some issues". Then there are the weird points anomalies which just seem wrong but it is hard to tell.

Verviedi wrote:Plasma Mortar > AC/20, although AC/20s certainly make a better noise when fired.

Thanatars do look suspiciously like Hunchbacks, now that you mention it...

Can't unsee that now... Or should it be can't UNSEEN that now?!




...and yes, I know it wasn't unseen. Let me have this!

Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?

skarsol wrote:

MaxT wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Is it not "Online internet hardman hysteria mainly."

Its a solid 70-80% of EVERY index they have released has edit errors, rules missing, or rules that contradict eachother making some models unplayable Literally page after page having issues.

Forgeworld did a horrible job, so hence the asking for refunds. they are taking refunds, but they make you pay shipping.

70%/80% of the indexes are wrong? That's so much bs that has to be called out., There's maybe a dozen typo errors. Yes a dozen is a dozen too many, but to say that 80% of all the rules across the 4 books is simply wrong.

Renegades and Heretics. 12 pages. 15 datasheets.

Chaos Covenant says if the Commander is the Warlord you can set the CHAOS COVENANT Keyword to whatever covenant he has. It doesn't say what to do with that keyword if you don't have a Commander as your Warlord. Can you set the Covenant of each unit to whatever you want? Does that keyword just vanish?

They can take a "Medusa Battery" but the only unit similar to that is "Medusa Carriage Battery". This isn't a trivial error as they can take an "Earthshaker Battery" while there are entries for both "Earthshaker Battery" and "Earthshaker Carriage Battery".

They can take AM transports but since they aren't AM, they can't actually ride in the transports.

Renegade Commander isn't a Character.

Renegade Command Squad: Sheet says 4 Disciples + 5 or +10. Points page says 4 only.

Renegade Enforcer isn't a Character.

Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers: Only the Pack Master has CHAOS COVENANT so how do the covenants work with a mixed unit? (The Hounds have no keywords at all)

Renegade Ogryn Brutes: Sheet says 3-12, price list says 1-5.

Renegade Plague Ogryn: Sheet says 3-9, price list says 3-6.
This unit replaces <CHAOS COVENANT> with <NURGLE> similar to how <LEGION> and such work. It then has a rule that effects non-<NURGLE> units. Is that Covenant <NURGLE> units, as distinct from Mark of Chaos <NURGLE> units, similar to how Legion <MADEUPNAME> is not the same as Craftworld <MADEUPNAME>?

... I'd say that's a wee bit more than "a dozen typo errors" as that's only a small subsection of the book, but yes, it's not 70-80%.

FWIW, here are some of the issues from just eight Tyranid datasheets:

Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.

Malanthropes give -1 to hit models within 3" (rather than units) which cannot work in the core rules.

Malanthrope points are way out of line with ability and power level.

Stonecrusher Bio-Flail attacks can be interpreted to work three different ways.

Hierophants re-use a Scything Talon weapon name from the main GW index with a totally different profile and points value.

Scything Talons are inconsistently listed for the Harridan and both Hierodules compared to what's on the models and the GW index.

 ph34r wrote:
Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?

Yes on the first part. Unknown on the second.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I think my biggest problem with the FW index books is that they did NOT contain everything they were advertised to have. Saying there are 19 Ork entries when there are only 14 is a huge letdown.

I cannot agree more.

I would have not even considered buying if there was only the 14 that was previewed.
Too much entries were missing, period.
I ended buying the digital version, just to find what I still think is a huge letdown also.

 Peregrine wrote:
Oh hey, and the dumpster fire continues. FW didn't bother putting the flyer movement restrictions on the Marauders, so my heavy bomber can now out-turn air superiority fighters.

I don't think things like this mean 8th is a "dumpster fire" (that term describes 6th/7th pretty well, IMO). It simply means it's Forge World being Forge World when it comes to rules, proofreading, editing....

 ph34r wrote:
Is Fires of Cyraxus supposedly going to provide us Mechanicus players rules for our Heresy era stuff and/or rules for fielding a true Dark Mechanicus army?

Ah yes Fires of Cyraxus. This alleged FW book that will bring 30k into 40k and unveil new Tau units coming out soon. We have dismissed this claim.

Enough with the LULZ and the pic only posts, please.

There's a topic here, please stick to it.

If don't have anything constructive to add, feel free to...not add it?

 xttz wrote:
Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.

That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!

MaxT wrote:
But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs

There's another way to take it: The truth.

You're just nitpicking what they said "Well if it's not exactly 4/5ths of the rules, then it's hyperbole" and basically ignoring the growing litany of problems with the book. Just look at the Chaos Renegade and Tyranid problems. You think those armies are alone in having issues?

I don't suppose we'll get a small addendum or errata included for the Master of Ordnance, that his "Master of Ballistics" special rule can also be used on the various artillery pieces done by FW.

I mean, I've finally got three Earthshaker carriages (maybe) on the way, would be nice if I could park one of my various Masters of Ordnance alongside them for that extra oomph.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Dimachaerons have a weapon that becomes double strength on 6+ to wound. Yep.

That genuinely made me burst out laughing at work. Ha!

MaxT wrote:
But there's 4 FW indexes, so the only way to take it is hyperbole bs

There's another way to take it: The truth.

You're just nitpicking what they said "Well if it's not exactly 4/5ths of the rules, then it's hyperbole" and basically ignoring the growing litany of problems with the book. Just look at the Chaos Renegade and Tyranid problems. You think those armies are alone in having issues?

To be fair the problems aren't as extensive as some people are making them out to be. For the the Xenos factions there seems to be only one or two problems at most, Renegades and AM seem to be the only lists that have really suffered here (well, and Corsairs since they're no longer an army at all now). Most of the entries still work fine and there's quite a few things that I intend to add to my armies from Forge World now.

Thats not to excuse the problems though, this complete and total lack of proof reading absolutely should not have happened.