Mmmpi wrote: Reroll 1d6 every turn for five turns.
and
Ignore moral on a unit every turn for four turns.
and
Attempt to stop a Psychic power a turn, for four turns.
dracpanzer wrote: Brigade has way too many required HS slots to fill for my tastes. But I have been running dual SoB Battalions to good effect, my amount of "lets see what this does" points is way down post FAQ, but I still sneak a bit in.
My first thought is 1 Heavy and 1 Elite choice away from a Brigade. My second though is what would you do with 15 CP anyway?
I don't care about the CP, it gets me the units I want without having to pay the Elite and HS tax to get a Brigade.
Mmmpi wrote: Yeah, martyrdom is another very good choice.
Speaking of martyrdom, does anyone know of any good third party dialogus models? I really don't like the ones GW makes.
Sisters plus Comms packs from Guard and Cherubs from vehicle kit can be fun.
I've been using some Inquisitor warband models to test the Dialogus out; there's a couple who present a Ministorum-side John Blanchesque version of someone belting out motivational oratory.
dracpanzer wrote: Brigade has way too many required HS slots to fill for my tastes. But I have been running dual SoB Battalions to good effect, my amount of "lets see what this does" points is way down post FAQ, but I still sneak a bit in.
I hear that... getting a break on Elites and Heavies allows some extra investment in Fast Attack at the cost of a cheap Canoness. Here's my non-Forge World dual Battalion list for this month's game... I'm excited to see how it plays. Double Battalion, 1997 points, 112 PL, 13 CP
My first thought is 1 Heavy and 1 Elite choice away from a Brigade. My second though is what would you do with 15 CP anyway?
Thanks for the feedback. My collection limits me a bit... I don't own a third HB Retributer squad and my Penitent Engine has the wrong Keyword, so it's down to Exorcists. I'll have more options when I buy every plastic thing they release next year. The Imagifier is hard to give up and the replacement Canoness a little hard to use, but it helps me max out Seraphim and Dominions and not skimp on transports. I've run the Brigade version a way back, and I'm a little torn between the two detachment configurations, even though I'm not really worried about CP. I spend a few each turn and aim to run out by the end of the game, and I rarely find myself short of what I need.
Some really great discussion recently! I'm of a similar mind to dracpanzer - I personally don't enjoy sitting and shooting and so eschew the classic firebase (and even any Imagifiers) in favour of fast-moving things that bring the fight to the enemy. Somebody asked what's else has been working for people - I've been having great success and fun running the following 1750pt fully mechanized list (everything moves 12"+):
Great Alpha strike from Vanguard Melta Doms, AoF Celestine + AoF Seraphim, three advancing Immolators and Dark Talon all moving right up the board - still takes people by surprise 8 Drops for a good chance of that +1 for first turn Super fun to play IMO - charging headstrong into the enemy. Bit of a glass hammer, but one that's on fire! Great Plasma Synergy with the twin Canoness' reroll 1s Auras Dark Talon provides sorely needed access to Mortal Wounds. Probably not a terribly efficient ally at 200pts in a -1CP Aux (no strats ), but I spent ages converting the Sisters pilot into it and it's really fun to play. Can be either a great firepower distraction or chaff-deleter when ignored. Dialogus and BSS squad can T1 disembark to hold backfield objectives (I'm with dracpanzer that 1-2 units is all you usually need here)
It fares better in wider deployments (Dawn of War, Vanguard) where you can pull a refused flank and use the hulls to screen and block LoS to the infantry while concentrating fully on one flank before sweeping round to the other. Need to keep 2CP for Seraphim to pass morale, but worth it to keep your IPs around for another turn. Gotta love the Dialogus - or Sister Die Alone-us as I like to call her. Holding a backfield objective, your opponent will have to massively overreach to take her out, popping Matyrdom in the process. Stick her in an Immolator and make her die when it explodes, doing the same. Such a troll. I'm loving the Canoness this edition - not a bad hitter with the BoA or Evisc!
I'm playing my first 8th ed game against the dreaded Drukhari tonight - upping it to 2K by adding some SB Doms in a fourth Immolator and a single HB ret squad to cover the backfield. I'm expecting 4 Immolators to provide a decent answer to Venom spam, but will report back on how it goes...
Looks like a fun, fast-moving list with a solid base.
Good luck on your first game of 8th. Drukhari are one of the top tier (read: undercosted) factions right now (how is a Dark Talon 200 points and yet a Razorwing with Dark Lances is 145 points? It’s not even close!!)
Best of luck!!
So my game against the Drukhari was definitely my most interesting yet - unfortunately we had to call time after turn 3 with no clear winner (we rolled kill point eternal war). Avoiding going into too much depth (we're here for Sisters tactics after all), my opponent's list was largely raider spam, three ravagers with disintergrators, voidraven, plus a small wytch cult. By god, DE can just bring *so* many units to a game. How he kept track of who was in what transport and who had fired I'll never know. Anyway, here are some highlights and learnings:
Hammer and Anvil and him deploying right on the back edge was my worst nightmare - absolutely killed my alpha strike. Need to adjust my tactics to this in the future. Suggestions? Deploy right at the back too and surrender the first turn?
Knowing when to pop smoke on your vehicles can be deal breaking - absolute best time IMO is when your tanks are forced to fall back from combat.
8 of my 10 Seraphim died to a voidraven bomber's void mine - a major downside to taking a unit of 10. Though the final two (with IPs) in cover soaked up a ludicrous amount of his T1 shooting.
As expected Immolators were great against the venoms - but that black heart 6+++ on vehicles is super cheeky (especially when the black heart transports are loaded with wyches)
I played very poorly with Celestine. She didn't have a good T1 charge target and in hindsight I should have just placed her behind my lines (and up a building or something) ready for a T2 charge, but I sent her into some chaff and next turn she got tarpitted to hell by his wyches - 4+ invul and rolling off to fall back just trapped her, even using The Passion AoF to try and clear them. Eventually he managed to kill Celestine properly (i.e twice) - which was the first time she's ever died for me
MVP was my Canoness with Evisc and PP who killed TWO Archons, a Lahmean and also finished off a unit of Scourges, and would have gone on to even more.
The lone unit of HB rets at the back was surprisingly solid firepower vs. an Immolator - so each can max pump out 12 S5 -1 hits max, but rolling 12 3+ dice was consistently producing more firepower than 2D6 autohits (which rolled largely poorly this game). Though Rets have diminishing returns as they die and the Immolator has the incredible overwatch and is potent down to it's final wound.
Getting Agents of Vected 3 times isn't fun at all q_q and the -1 to hit stratagem and +1 to cover save are insanely good. Can't what to see what we get in our beta toolkit in December.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lastly, Celestine's 5++ SoF Aura was absolutely invaluable to my tanks, saving them from many a blaster hit. I'll be sure to factor this into my positioning in the future.
Lastly, Celestine's 5++ SoF Aura was absolutely invaluable to my tanks, saving them from many a blaster hit. I'll be sure to factor this into my positioning in the future.
I have been forgetting to use this for anyone except Seraphim.
Oh same! This was the first game where it actually occurred to me, and upon checking I was genuinely surprised to find that the rule didn't say ADEPTA SORORITAS INFANTRY units...
I’ve had a problem the last few games keeping Celestine alive. Once she makes her attack run against whatever character / flyer etc I need to get rid of, my opponent inevitably falls back and then she gets lit up by the majority of my opponents’ units. And it usually doesn’t matter if she has her Geminae or not.
It wouldn’t be so dis-heartening except that she doesn’t make her points up usually. I’ve been taking her more so recently due to the number of players running Eldar and Dark Eldar.
How do you keep her alive long enough to make taking her worthwhile?
Re: Celestine dying, I think it's just a case of people are figuring out how to beat her with their armies, so sending her in alone isn't cutting it any more. Play her more conservatively.
Alternatively, if your opponent spends his entire turn shooting her and not your Doms/Rets, that sounds like a win in my book. She's making her points back, just not directly in a killy sense.
I usually run Celestine as a big distraction early in the game, exactly to provide a little cover for my other units coming into the fray. Once she dies, though, I usually pop her up somewhere in more of a support/counter role. I also have not been running her with Geminae unless the points are really obviously in favor. The extra wounds and survival are just not worth getting locked into position because she raised a twin and is now bound to resurrect next to it. And if you're not ressing twins... why are you playing with them?
I res twins so long as their are no wounds on Celestine, once she takes a wound I either heal her up and res a twin or just burn her until she goes down.
I play DE and Eldar regularly (the Xenos live in my house) against competitive lists and players who know how to use them. I try to keep Seraphim up close to Celestine to make it harder for them to surround her, get away from her, or have her be the closest model to shoot at. Of course a wall of charaging Repressors helps as well, as everything gets charged at the same time.
I use Celestine the opposite way than most, I run her to destroy all the little things she can easily kill and usually don't just throw her at the first big nasty I see. Meltaguns work well on those.
Resipsa131 wrote: Are Gemenia Superia characters for purposes of the martyrdom strategum. It seems like they shouldn’t but where is the prohibative wording
FAQs Q: Can I use the Martyrdom Stratagem when any model from
the Celestine unit is slain?
A: No. Only when the entire unit has been destroyed.
dracpanzer wrote: I try to keep Seraphim up close to Celestine to make it harder for them to surround her, get away from her, or have her be the closest model to shoot at. Of course a wall of charaging Repressors helps as well, as everything gets charged at the same time.
My typical tactic has been to run her up behind the Repressors and usually by T2 have her take out something nearby with the Repressors in support. The problem is that you are forced to take a supporting cast of Seraphims to keep her from getting charged / shot, etc. Yes, she becomes the distraction carnifex everyone talks about, but her cost to be an effective fighter is closer to 300. I just need convincing.... there is so much you can do with 300 points!
dracpanzer wrote: I try to keep Seraphim up close to Celestine to make it harder for them to surround her, get away from her, or have her be the closest model to shoot at. Of course a wall of charaging Repressors helps as well, as everything gets charged at the same time.
My typical tactic has been to run her up behind the Repressors and usually by T2 have her take out something nearby with the Repressors in support. The problem is that you are forced to take a supporting cast of Seraphims to keep her from getting charged / shot, etc. Yes, she becomes the distraction carnifex everyone talks about, but her cost to be an effective fighter is closer to 300. I just need convincing.... there is so much you can do with 300 points!
Granted, but with the rule of 3 in effect you were going to get those Seraphim anyways if you were not playing allies (I never do). I don't play her as a distraction, I like to feed her the soft squishy units she can chew through quickly yet still keep her isolated from the mech Sisters following along in Repressors. Its all about focus fire, target priority and making sure the bulk of my forces are where they need to be to keep my opponent from just focusing her down.
As much as I’ve wanted to play pure Sisters since the beginning of 8th, there just never were enough interesting and competitive units for me to run them pure. Then the cost increase of Celestine (overcosted by 10 to 15 points) and the nerf to Doms due to the Rule of Three really changed my lists.
Even with allies I always ran more than half my points with Sisters. After the Ro3 change I’m just below half my points with Sisters now *sad face*.
I am sure once we get our Dex there will be new fluffy and competitive units there to make our girls more well-rounded.
davidgr33n wrote: As much as I’ve wanted to play pure Sisters since the beginning of 8th, there just never were enough interesting and competitive units for me to run them pure. Then the cost increase of Celestine (overcosted by 10 to 15 points) and the nerf to Doms due to the Rule of Three really changed my lists.
Even with allies I always ran more than half my points with Sisters. After the Ro3 change I’m just below half my points with Sisters now *sad face*.
I am sure once we get our Dex there will be new fluffy and competitive units there to make our girls more well-rounded.
I don't know if I played all of ten games of 7ed 40k. 8ed formations pulled me back in to 40k pretty hard. I could play very thematic lists that varied greatly from game to game and really enjoyed it. Repentia horde backed by foot BSS one game, Seraphim and Rets the next, SB Doms were an unexpected favorite and I filled that hole in my collection. I had 3 at the start of 8ed and I now have 45. Don't worry, I still have more meltagunners. Just one more way I can field Sisters so I am fine running 100% Sisters in whichever way. I'm not a fan of allies, never have been. I know CA isn't that far off now with our Beta rules, but I know what hoping gets Sisters and I don't suspect it will do much to open up the reins a bit and let Sisters have some variety again without having to take 85% of our index to get it.
Honestly, if they did I'd expect it to be something like we see with Space Marines. You can take a Palatine, and if you want one to be a canoness, you can spend CP to upgrade.
Mmmpi wrote: Honestly, if they did I'd expect it to be something like we see with Space Marines. You can take a Palatine, and if you want one to be a canoness, you can spend CP to upgrade.
With the scarcity of our HQ dataslates that would not be a good thing.
Mmmpi wrote: Honestly, if they did I'd expect it to be something like we see with Space Marines. You can take a Palatine, and if you want one to be a canoness, you can spend CP to upgrade.
Not to encourage non-tactical commentary on this thread, but with the lack of HQ choices we have I doubt that will happen. I do believe they’ll reprise the Palatine, it’ll just be comparable to a SM Lieutenant, and the Canoness will be like the Captain. I also would expect one new named HQ choice of Canoness.
There's a good chance I draw the Necron player at this weekend's matchup, and I know he's been busy building things. I expect Warrior blobs with buffs, destroyers, tomb blades, and probably a vault. I'll be running pure Sisters for the first time in a while. Any advice on target priority, favorable matchups, traps to avoid?
If you start shooting at a unit with reanimation protocols... do not cease shooting at it or clobbering it with melee until the entire unit is dead. Don't let him get free models back, even if you have to melta the last one in the face or thwack it with a Superior's chainsword.
Target priority also has a lot to do with your army composition, too. If you have a lot of foot troops... you probably want to limit his volume of fire from warriors and such. If you play mechanized, you're probably going to prioritize bigger guns faster.
Rubenite wrote: Some really great discussion recently! I'm of a similar mind to dracpanzer - I personally don't enjoy sitting and shooting and so eschew the classic firebase (and even any Imagifiers) in favour of fast-moving things that bring the fight to the enemy. Somebody asked what's else has been working for people - I've been having great success and fun running the following 1750pt fully mechanized list (everything moves 12"+):
Great Alpha strike from Vanguard Melta Doms, AoF Celestine + AoF Seraphim, three advancing Immolators and Dark Talon all moving right up the board - still takes people by surprise
8 Drops for a good chance of that +1 for first turn
Super fun to play IMO - charging headstrong into the enemy. Bit of a glass hammer, but one that's on fire! Great Plasma Synergy with the twin Canoness' reroll 1s Auras
Dark Talon provides sorely needed access to Mortal Wounds. Probably not a terribly efficient ally at 200pts in a -1CP Aux (no strats ), but I spent ages converting the Sisters pilot into it and it's really fun to play. Can be either a great firepower distraction or chaff-deleter when ignored.
Dialogus and BSS squad can T1 disembark to hold backfield objectives (I'm with dracpanzer that 1-2 units is all you usually need here)
It fares better in wider deployments (Dawn of War, Vanguard) where you can pull a refused flank and use the hulls to screen and block LoS to the infantry while concentrating fully on one flank before sweeping round to the other.
Need to keep 2CP for Seraphim to pass morale, but worth it to keep your IPs around for another turn.
Gotta love the Dialogus - or Sister Die Alone-us as I like to call her. Holding a backfield objective, your opponent will have to massively overreach to take her out, popping Matyrdom in the process. Stick her in an Immolator and make her die when it explodes, doing the same. Such a troll.
I'm loving the Canoness this edition - not a bad hitter with the BoA or Evisc!
I'm playing my first 8th ed game against the dreaded Drukhari tonight - upping it to 2K by adding some SB Doms in a fourth Immolator and a single HB ret squad to cover the backfield. I'm expecting 4 Immolators to provide a decent answer to Venom spam, but will report back on how it goes...
Don't take 6 unit doms. Take 5 and use the extra 20pts to get 2 more inferno pistols on the seraphim. The ablative wound is never worth as much as what those points can do elsewhere, even just to protect from explosions. Also the dark talon is pretty trash now, I'd drop it, and the PP/Evis to fill out your dominions. The other canoness Combiplas would be next on the block if you need more points.
Well, I drew Eldar instead of Necrons... 3x Rangers, 3x Wraithguard, 3x Wave Serpent, 2x Spiritseer and 1x Farseer. I dropped down to 1500 to play him: Celestine and friends, BoA Canoness, stock Canoness, 3x SBBSS, 2x Melta Doms, 2x Inferno Seraphim, 3x Immolator, 2x Imagifier, 2x HB Rets. Played Contact Lost on a Dawn of War table. He spent two whole turns without objectives to generate points and I actually scored Domination (control all objectives) for the first time ever. My unit count and mobility went big in my favor and we ended 10-3 on points. There was a moment where I thought he might table me, but the game ended after turn 5. First time playing mono Sisters Index vs. Codex, so I'm pretty pleased with the win.
EDIT: Adding a photo... last stand of the Canoness, heavy bolters roaring as the Wraithguard prime their D-Scythes.
davidgr33n wrote: I would think DE would struggle more against Mech Sisters than foot Sisters.
Poison 4+ always wounds T3 on 4+ and has 0 AP, Dis Cannons are made to kill 2W+ things so they are wasting the Dis cannons on them, HB's rips DE apart and we can have 20+ without trying, they have fast moving units that can tie up vehicles turn 1-2, and we also have Celestine and Seraphim that could get to the Important Archon, we also dont have any extremely important Stratagems for AoV counter, killing the Archon off and trying to force them to waste their CP keeping Celestine alive till they have less than 3 CP for our important re-roll if you fail.
The only thing i'd say we are weak against is the Grotesques, We just need to out shoot those guys unless you add in Null Zone.
My daughter is 3-2. She faced Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Thousand Sons, Militarum Tempestus and Death Watch.
After three victories, she decided to switch up her list to better handle armored spam more quickly.
She now has 2 Canoness (eviscerator+combimelta, Sword of Admonition+ combiflamer), Celestine, 2 Exorcists (hk's), 3 x 5 sisters squads, Imagifier, 1x 9 and 1x6 Melta Dominion squads (one in Rhino and one in an Immolator) and two Seraphim squads (w Inferno pistols and plasma on the Superior).
Her first game with the new list was a blood bath, and almost no models remained on either side and sh's going to try again tomorrow (same opponent). She made a pretty fair number of errors in her last game and still was in the game through 6 rounds, but lost in the 7th. Sh's hoping to improve and get her revenge. Biggest improvement thus far is the time she takes to play. Best time thus far is 3.5 hours. So she's getting faster, quickly.
She asked me today how much the tournament in July would be. I teared up.
Rubenite wrote: Some really great discussion recently! I'm of a similar mind to dracpanzer - I personally don't enjoy sitting and shooting and so eschew the classic firebase (and even any Imagifiers) in favour of fast-moving things that bring the fight to the enemy. Somebody asked what's else has been working for people - I've been having great success and fun running the following 1750pt fully mechanized list (everything moves 12"+):
Great Alpha strike from Vanguard Melta Doms, AoF Celestine + AoF Seraphim, three advancing Immolators and Dark Talon all moving right up the board - still takes people by surprise
8 Drops for a good chance of that +1 for first turn
Super fun to play IMO - charging headstrong into the enemy. Bit of a glass hammer, but one that's on fire! Great Plasma Synergy with the twin Canoness' reroll 1s Auras
Dark Talon provides sorely needed access to Mortal Wounds. Probably not a terribly efficient ally at 200pts in a -1CP Aux (no strats ), but I spent ages converting the Sisters pilot into it and it's really fun to play. Can be either a great firepower distraction or chaff-deleter when ignored.
Dialogus and BSS squad can T1 disembark to hold backfield objectives (I'm with dracpanzer that 1-2 units is all you usually need here)
It fares better in wider deployments (Dawn of War, Vanguard) where you can pull a refused flank and use the hulls to screen and block LoS to the infantry while concentrating fully on one flank before sweeping round to the other.
Need to keep 2CP for Seraphim to pass morale, but worth it to keep your IPs around for another turn.
Gotta love the Dialogus - or Sister Die Alone-us as I like to call her. Holding a backfield objective, your opponent will have to massively overreach to take her out, popping Matyrdom in the process. Stick her in an Immolator and make her die when it explodes, doing the same. Such a troll.
I'm loving the Canoness this edition - not a bad hitter with the BoA or Evisc!
I'm playing my first 8th ed game against the dreaded Drukhari tonight - upping it to 2K by adding some SB Doms in a fourth Immolator and a single HB ret squad to cover the backfield. I'm expecting 4 Immolators to provide a decent answer to Venom spam, but will report back on how it goes...
Don't take 6 unit doms. Take 5 and use the extra 20pts to get 2 more inferno pistols on the seraphim. The ablative wound is never worth as much as what those points can do elsewhere, even just to protect from explosions. Also the dark talon is pretty trash now, I'd drop it, and the PP/Evis to fill out your dominions. The other canoness Combiplas would be next on the block if you need more points.
Interesting points, thanks. There are already four inferno pistols in the Seraphim, but I could split them down into two units to add more... Agree that the Dark Talon is probably sub-optimal for the points, but it's very cool and really fun to use IMO (in the same way that people still run Exorcists). As for the Doms, the ablative wound has actually been doing alright for me as they can throw a krak grenade out of the repressor - but I have found that my melta doms have been rather unreliable. The pair of melta dom repressors took five rounds of shooting to take down a Knight crusader last game (three turns and two AoFs). Five melta shots just don't add up to that much when you filter them through hits, wounds, invulnerable saves, and bad damage rolls.
I'll probably drop one Immolator for some HB rets (slightly more statistically reliable firepower) or more Seraphim perhaps. It's a work in progress though. Is a list ever complete?
To add to the other discussion, I do think we have some good cards to play against DE. As well as S5 spam, the fact that our main strength isn't tied up in strats is a godsend against AoV - which only really shuts down a key re-roll or martyrdom.
My daughter is 3-2. She faced Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Thousand Sons, Militarum Tempestus and Death Watch.
After three victories, she decided to switch up her list to better handle armored spam more quickly.
She now has 2 Canoness (eviscerator+combimelta, Sword of Admonition+ combiflamer), Celestine, 2 Exorcists (hk's), 3 x 5 sisters squads, Imagifier, 1x 9 and 1x6 Melta Dominion squads (one in Rhino and one in an Immolator) and two Seraphim squads (w Inferno pistols and plasma on the Superior).
Her first game with the new list was a blood bath, and almost no models remained on either side and sh's going to try again tomorrow (same opponent). She made a pretty fair number of errors in her last game and still was in the game through 6 rounds, but lost in the 7th. Sh's hoping to improve and get her revenge. Biggest improvement thus far is the time she takes to play. Best time thus far is 3.5 hours. So she's getting faster, quickly.
She asked me today how much the tournament in July would be. I teared up.
MacPhail wrote: Well, I drew Eldar instead of Necrons... 3x Rangers, 3x Wraithguard, 3x Wave Serpent, 2x Spiritseer and 1x Farseer. I dropped down to 1500 to play him: Celestine and friends, BoA Canoness, stock Canoness, 3x SBBSS, 2x Melta Doms, 2x Inferno Seraphim, 3x Immolator, 2x Imagifier, 2x HB Rets. Played Contact Lost on a Dawn of War table. He spent two whole turns without objectives to generate points and I actually scored Domination (control all objectives) for the first time ever. My unit count and mobility went big in my favor and we ended 10-3 on points. There was a moment where I thought he might table me, but the game ended after turn 5. First time playing mono Sisters Index vs. Codex, so I'm pretty pleased with the win.
Spoiler:
EDIT: Adding a photo... last stand of the Canoness, heavy bolters roaring as the Wraithguard prime their D-Scythes.
[
I had a couple other thoughts on the game... Lesson 1: watch out for the Eldar Stratagem "Phantasm"... it's a game changer. Redeploy 3 units for 2CP... he shifted all three Wave Serpents with all three Wraithguard units to the end of the table where I had the lightest anti-tank presence.
He left only his Rangers holding the center of his deployment zone. I quickly accounted for them by advancing the Dominion Immolators... the meltas had nothing to shoot, but the Immolator Cannons ruined the Rangers' day. Looking back, this cost him important objectives and won them for me... I had dedicated tank-hunters (1 Inferno Seraphim, 1 Melta Dominion) with no tanks to hunt. Instead they spent turns 1 and 2 holding down objectives he had deployed on. In the Contact Lost mission, this kept him from generating Tactical Objectives and allowed me to score Domination for 4 VPs, which won me the game.
In return his Wave Serpents wrapped my flank, dropping a unit of Wraithguard with Spiritseer every 18 inches with the last one in my backfield. The Wraithguard were brutal and tough to bring down, but the real damage points to Lesson 2: beware Shuriken Cannons... S6 vs. T3 is murderous. Make no mistake, D-Scythes are devastating as well. Between turns 2 and 4 I lost 2 Canonesses, 1 Immolator, 2 Retributers, 1 Seraphim, 2 BSS, and 2 Imagifiers, but hey, I scored the Advance TacO when he cleaned out my deployment zone.
Over turns 4 and 5, I was able to reposition Dominions and Seraphim to intercept Wave Serpents, and Celestine accounted for a full dozen of the Wraithguard herself, dying once and going through at least 6 Geminae in the process. If there's a Lesson 3 it's one we all know: be patient, control the board, and play the mission.
Hope any of those lessons learned are of use to someone else out dispensing the Emperor's Justice.
phydaux wrote: The Sisters Index army was a strong list. I fully expect our trial rules to nerf the army into the sand, then have that sand put in a litter box.
Nah, i think they will be just as strong as they are now, but a redesign of AoF, Celestine and some other units.
What recent codex has been bad? I think it's pretty widely believed that they've been getting better and better written in fact, "codex creep" occurring simply from quality of rules writing improving - more clever strategems, relics, warlord traits and special rules.
Most people would say the weakest codices are in fact the first two, Grey Knights and Space Marines.
So I think we can safely say that being the last codex written should, based on prior precedent, end pretty well for the Sisters.
It would sure seem like the Sisters should get a good Codex the way 8ed is going. But, with their luck it will drop just a couple months before the next edition is announced and blows it up. It's not like it hasn't happened before...
Giving up entirely on the hope of going first. Running two battalions of Sisters with melta BSS in Repressors, full SB Doms in Repressors piggybacking Repentia, Mistress, Imagifers and Canonesses with the typical Retributor firebase has been doing well for me. Deploying with as much hidden as possible and a Dialogus on each flank to keep the deepstrikers away seems to work as I never win first turn.
Working well against DE, Custodes and Eldar. Repressor charges to soak overwatch still work well when looking to get Repentia in to hth. Actually had a Repressor make three 6++ saves in one turn, two in the next to stay unharmed. Its a lot of CP, find myself throwing them at everything.
This is the standard setup I have been running at my local shop. It seems to fair well against any army. The Vanguard detachment is a fun and nasty mix of hth units. I could just drop the 2 Death Cul, but it has been handy at times to let them run off in a different direction and tie up other units (plus the models are cool).
Basically getting the Immolator in firing range and then have the girls pop out and lay down fire or hold an objective (canonness rides along as well). I find the heavy bolters to be a more reliable source of damage over the flamer. Doms and Celestine are pretty obvious.
The Seraphim squad is really the biggest challenge. They always get targeted first. Even being near Celestine for AoF, they do not survive hth well at all, and if anyone shoots at them.. their numbers go down quick. I suppose it is a great use of points for such a big threat.
At times I have dropped the Seraphim Squad and add heavy bolters to the BSS to increase firepower, its a toss up. But over well set up preforms well and wins most games.
5 command points is tough but it can be done. I've kinda been running with 5. My daughter runs with 9. She doesn't like the unpredictability of Acts of Faith so she wants lots of re-rolls and of course healing is key at times for Celestine.
This is the standard setup I have been running at my local shop. It seems to fair well against any army. The Vanguard detachment is a fun and nasty mix of hth units. I could just drop the 2 Death Cul, but it has been handy at times to let them run off in a different direction and tie up other units (plus the models are cool).
Basically getting the Immolator in firing range and then have the girls pop out and lay down fire or hold an objective (canonness rides along as well). I find the heavy bolters to be a more reliable source of damage over the flamer. Doms and Celestine are pretty obvious.
The Seraphim squad is really the biggest challenge. They always get targeted first. Even being near Celestine for AoF, they do not survive hth well at all, and if anyone shoots at them.. their numbers go down quick. I suppose it is a great use of points for such a big threat.
At times I have dropped the Seraphim Squad and add heavy bolters to the BSS to increase firepower, its a toss up. But over well set up preforms well and wins most games.
You could trade in your Superior upgrades for a naked BSS and the Battalion CPs... I suspect I'd wish for a few more at 1500 points. If you aren't going to use those BSS to chase a Battalion, you could reorganize them into a stormbolter Dominion squad and Vanguard them into optimum range, trailing a couple of members for the Canoness reroll.
I never really get the Canonness in to hth. They are for the BSS tand Immolators to re roll the 1s. If they are in hth, then I let the enemy get too close.
I have before dropped the Seraphim squad and added another BSS which does give the Battalion build out to get more CP.
But those Seraphims, people hate them, threat vs CP.
Back to Tactics... apologies if this has been previously discussed, but I'm toying with the following idea; wondering if anyone has thought of something similar?
Since the Rule of Three I've been missing doubling up Doms in my Repressors, opting instead to run 6-woman Melta Doms in them. However it occurred to me that it would be possible to still get another non-Dom unit into the back of the same vehicle after it has used the Dominion's Vanguard move but before the tank itself moves on T1.
Assuming a Vanguard move going straight ahead, and considering that the tank is just over 5" long, it seems like you could easily get a unit to within 3" of the rear, allowing you to embark before the tank itself then completes its T1 move. Here's a diagram:
Granted it would be trickier to get a whole unit to within 3" and if you lose the first turn they are ripe for being shot, but I'm looking at getting just a Canoness in there for some epic Combi-Plasma out the 6th Fire Port, and providing a potentially clutch reroll aura to the Doms once the tank pops (not to mention a T2 charge for the Blade of Admonition ), and she is reasonably protected by the character rule if you go second.
Math wise I think that assuming a tank length of just over 5" (will measure tonight) that you could Vanguard up to 14" and a 6" move would get you to within 3" to embark and still allow you to fire out the top that turn, or you could go 15" Vanguard if Canoness advanced and up to 18" if you're willing to risk her advance roll being 2-4".
Moving the tank diagonally gets a little more complicated, but if I fashion a 9" rod to put in base contact with the Canoness, and ensure this is touching the back of the Repressor post-vanguard move, I'll be all good whatever direction it moves in.
You could also do this with an Immolator to get any character into that 6th transport slot.
Rubenite wrote: Back to Tactics... apologies if this has been previously discussed, but I'm toying with the following idea; wondering if anyone has thought of something similar?
Since the Rule of Three I've been missing doubling up Doms in my Repressors, opting instead to run 6-woman Melta Doms in them. However it occurred to me that it would be possible to still get another non-Dom unit into the back of the same vehicle after it has used the Dominion's Vanguard move but before the tank itself moves on T1.
Assuming a Vanguard move going straight ahead, and considering that the tank is just over 5" long, it seems like you could easily get a unit to within 3" of the rear, allowing you to embark before the tank itself then completes its T1 move. Here's a diagram:
Spoiler:
Granted it would be trickier to get a whole unit to within 3" and if you lose the first turn they are ripe for being shot, but I'm looking at getting just a Canoness in there for some epic Combi-Plasma out the 6th Fire Port, and providing a potentially clutch reroll aura to the Doms once the tank pops (not to mention a T2 charge for the Blade of Admonition ), and she is reasonably protected by the character rule if you go second.
Math wise I think that assuming a tank length of just over 5" (will measure tonight) that you could Vanguard up to 14" and a 6" move would get you to within 3" to embark and still allow you to fire out the top that turn, or you could go 15" Vanguard if Canoness advanced and up to 18" if you're willing to risk her advance roll being 2-4".
Moving the tank diagonally gets a little more complicated, but if I fashion a 9" rod to put in base contact with the Canoness, and ensure this is touching the back of the Repressor post-vanguard move, I'll be all good whatever direction it moves in.
You could also do this with an Immolator to get any character into that 6th transport slot.
Thoughts?
Sneakier would be to put a Dialogus in so she can do a speedbump/Martyrdom MIRV in turn 2.
Could even be done with a unit of Battle Sisters Troops in order to grab objectives, but would probably require Hand of the Emperor to get them into embarkation range reliably. Seraphim are the better target for that Act of Faith, though.
But with so many units to drop it's less likely that we'll even get the first turn.
I've used it, it does work. Though Vanguarding just a few vehicles, even if you go first, in my experience just gets them dead. I was all over it pre Ro3. Now, I rarely get to go first so there is that, but I prefer just to roll out a full wave of Repressors doubled up with SBBSS, a few Melta Doms running solo and InfernoSeraphim for AT all hitchhiking in Celestine's SoF buff. Hits en masse and doesn't care who goes first. I give the AoF to my InfernoSeraphim and use them to bust some tanks and put down a wall of SBolter shots. Not terribly exciting, but Spamming BSS is the new non WAAC way to play and double Battalions is a gakton of CP's
Yeah... I have to admit that's my experience as well. It's all or nothing because half measures get you dead. Unfortunately Ro3 means that 'all' is no longer an option. If i'm going 2nd, which feels more often than not, I just vanguard to get out of line of sight or into celestines 6" bubble for the 5+ invul. Soak a few more shots before the tin openers do their job.
It's sickening to see about 700 points worth of repressors and dominions eat dirt before doing anything because you didn't get first turn and have to play a survival game trying not to get tabled because you're glass cannon got shattered before it got a shot off.
I have to say though, I've found that a couple of Armiger Warglaives with their codex points reduction have great synergy with dominions. They are what penitent engines wish they were, fast enough to get the job done. Also Armiger Helverins are a decent support option and i'd take them any day over an Exorcist.
I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS for late game objective grabbing.
Rynner wrote: I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS to late game objective grabbing.
Ah is the Repressor not a DT? I don't have the Forgeworld book
Rynner wrote: I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS to late game objective grabbing.
ITC has totally screwed up the VP points regarding STC and the twins. A dead twin won't trigger Martyrdom because a character didn't die, but a dead twin awards points because the enemy killed a character. Seems fair. It's pretty terrible they can milk STC for 10 VPs a game.
Yeah I suppose but then it means I have 250 points doing mostly nothing. I'll probably write something up after the event to let everyone know how it goes.
Rynner wrote: I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS to late game objective grabbing.
Ah is the Repressor not a DT? I don't have the Forgeworld book
It is but it's 110 points and you can only vanguard three of them now. I've heard of people having success by doubling up BSS in them. I've just never tried it as I've found allies to be more beneficial.
Melta Doms in Repressors with Combi-Plasma Canoness chasing after one of them and the HBBSS squad chasing the other (depending on mission they can hop in and fire HB out the 6th port or hang back on an objective).
Evisc PP Canonness w Plasma/Melta BSS squad in Immolator for a turn 3-4 "wait, there's even more melta?"
Dialogus and SBBSS in other Immolator purely for Objectives or frontline chaff clearing.
Dropped an Immolator and added barebones HB rets for more consistent firepower and faith-dumping if the Seraphim die quickly.
Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
Rubenite wrote: Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
My table will drown in the new ruins from Killteam. Only thing left to decide is color scheme.
Rubenite wrote: Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
My table will drown in the new ruins from Killteam. Only thing left to decide is color scheme.
Why limit yourself? I'll take one in white marble, one in green marble, one in a dark granite, one in red....
So much Mechanicus terrain after selling my soul to get everyones Renegade terrain to add to my existing stuff. Now KT launches with the new stuff. Is there such a thing as too much terrain?
Rubenite wrote: Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
My table will drown in the new ruins from Killteam. Only thing left to decide is color scheme.
Why limit yourself? I'll take one in white marble, one in green marble, one in a dark granite, one in red....
So much Mechanicus terrain after selling my soul to get everyones Renegade terrain to add to my existing stuff. Now KT launches with the new stuff. Is there such a thing as too much terrain?
My golf budget thinks so. I have two expensive time consuming hobbies that fight for my attention.
Doubling up Doms and BSS in a repressor. It does cancel the Vanguard ability, but how often are you all using it?
Seems like everytime I do run the Vanguard movement, my repressors get toasted. Since going first never seems to happen for me.
Been thinking of changing my list up to have the Doms pair up with BSS with the Superior carrying a combi melta as well. So 6 melta firing out of the repressor.
Then just use my only Immolator to run Rets around the board with a canonness to secure objectives if needed. Versus having them walk anywhere
zaahul wrote: Doubling up Doms and BSS in a repressor. It does cancel the Vanguard ability, but how often are you all using it?
Seems like everytime I do run the Vanguard movement, my repressors get toasted. Since going first never seems to happen for me.
Been thinking of changing my list up to have the Doms pair up with BSS with the Superior carrying a combi melta as well. So 6 melta firing out of the repressor.
Then just use my only Immolator to run Rets around the board with a canonness to secure objectives if needed. Versus having them walk anywhere
Vanguard every single game without fail. If I'm going second I'll use it to redeploy to a more favorable position, but I usually get the first turn (I run mechanised without the retributor firebase for ~9/10 deployment drops).
I think that Repressors are there to die - I charge them straight forward into the enemy lines and though 12 wounds with a 5++ from Celestine is pretty tanky, I often only get one round of shooting out of the fire ports. Don't forget popping smoke to help them absorb a bit more firepower. But I find that once the Meltas are out of the tank that Act of Faith shooting them is very effective as you're already in position in the thick of it, especially if you can engineer a cheeky Martydom for them too from a Dialogus.
IMO I think a 6th Melta would be overkill. In my last game I doubled up a bare BSS squad with a Heavy Bolter into the Repressor with the Melta Doms (made them chase after it post-vanguard as detailed in my previous posts) and I found the Heavy Bolter firing out the 6th port to give a decent amount of utility even though it was hitting on 4+. It just had great range and LOS from the tank and was great for picking things off here and there.
zaahul wrote: Doubling up Doms and BSS in a repressor. It does cancel the Vanguard ability, but how often are you all using it?
Seems like everytime I do run the Vanguard movement, my repressors get toasted. Since going first never seems to happen for me.
Been thinking of changing my list up to have the Doms pair up with BSS with the Superior carrying a combi melta as well. So 6 melta firing out of the repressor.
Then just use my only Immolator to run Rets around the board with a canonness to secure objectives if needed. Versus having them walk anywhere
I double up SB/BSS in Repressors with other SB/BSS. Dominons run solo in Repressors with Meltaguns so that Vanguard is something my opponent at least has to take in to account. I deploy the Doms aggressively but unless my opponent gives me something foolishly worth it, I deploy sideways or in to LOS cover with Vanguard. It still has its uses to isolate an opposing flank from targets or run and hide, not what it sued to be. Ro3 makes the Vanguard elment generally too small to survive long enough on its own to make their sacrifice worthwhile.
Rynner wrote: Any one got an tips for dealing with DE? I wound up taking all of them this weekend at ATC so my team mates didn't have to. They are really mean.
When I play against them, I use the Dom/Melta to take out any Ravager (which on it is that can run three dark lances)
DE also put out lots of fire power at half range and wound on 4+ always. Immolators are good, lots and lots of storm bolters. Get Celestine in hand to hand, what out for the wyches.... they can get nasty.
Ret squads with a Imagifer/Cannoness is good as well. It's the longest range we get.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My question is, is there ANY way to make the Exorcist useful at all? Other than a cool paper weight. At 135 points... it just doesn't perform. Agreed, it is like the classic SoB model...but.
And speaking of SoB tanks... to model repressor or learn to use Immolators. 1) Will they be dropped 2) FW is not always allowed in events.
Rynner wrote: Any one got an tips for dealing with DE? I wound up taking all of them this weekend at ATC so my team mates didn't have to. They are really mean.
SoB are one of the better counters to them as far as Power Army types go, try to make more bodies and less multi wounds, try to take as many HB's and SBs as you can, Vehicles are good, but i wouldnt take MM or HF versions, mass HB's will help a lot. DE have limited ways to kill vehicle "fast" they can kill them easily, but will take a turn a full shooting just to kill 1 or 2, Repressors might be best.
Depending on the list will depend on how you fight them, Venoms spam just shoot them as soon as you can and ignore the kabals, if they have Ravagers they will be more important to kill, if there is a lot of Grots try to still kill the Ravagers and move away from the Grots, make sure they dont get to you for 3 turns if not 4 (tho thats hard to do), if you must throw a Diagolos in there way as they are only melee units.
Celestine should be able to handle a couple vehicles for you or as least do good damage.
Good allies are Custodes Shield Caps on Daweagles.
Rynner wrote: Any one got an tips for dealing with DE? I wound up taking all of them this weekend at ATC so my team mates didn't have to. They are really mean.
When I play against them, I use the Dom/Melta to take out any Ravager (which on it is that can run three dark lances)
DE also put out lots of fire power at half range and wound on 4+ always. Immolators are good, lots and lots of storm bolters. Get Celestine in hand to hand, what out for the wyches.... they can get nasty.
Ret squads with a Imagifer/Cannoness is good as well. It's the longest range we get.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My question is, is there ANY way to make the Exorcist useful at all? Other than a cool paper weight. At 135 points... it just doesn't perform. Agreed, it is like the classic SoB model...but.
And speaking of SoB tanks... to model repressor or learn to use Immolators. 1) Will they be dropped 2) FW is not always allowed in events.
IMO Exorcist are still a bit over costed, i would rather their gun be H6 instead of D6, honestly i would just take a Stalker, its basically the same thing but for cheaper, vs a Rhino the Exorcist does 2.6 wounds where the Stalker does 2.67, so they are the same on averages but the stalker is cheaper and better vs <fly> and better vs lower toughness and Invuls of 4+ and yes they both are T8. The only problem is you need a SMHQ, but a Captain with the Relic (i think i might mix it up) so you can have Re-rolls.
My daughter fought Dark Eldar and lost twice and my observation from watching her games was that prioritizing was important. I know thats trite but its REALLY important. The disintegrator Ravagers were easily the scariest piece. Focusing them down was very productive in her second game and made a big difference. Those are probably a-1 on my list and a-2 is the transport w/ Lelith in it. Lelith is a butcher. So when she did that it dramatically changed the game for the better.
My daughter uses two exorcists had the luxury of being able to reach them even though they started intentionally out of her charge range round one. One other thing I picked up from that second game is that she shose to Vanguard up the field but would have been better served moving to cover and giving up some distance for smoke launchers and cover saves instead. While it is OFTEN better to play with maximum aggression... the hammer and anvil and vanguard zones do offer smart de players quite a lot of protection from the early volley and it leaves the sisters exposed. So it could well be that a more PATIENT approach to the game might yield better results against them.
For example, going first you may move to cover, pop smoke and hid firing exorcists only. You might even play the mouse and make him come to you, so that less of the clock is working against you. His 36" range is great but it means he must eventually get closer to handle the exorcists and right into the teeth of waiting seraphim, celestine, canoness torpedoes and so on. Doing less early and killing the ravagers could leave him with a lot less time than he wants to bring his force to bear.
IMO Exorcist are still a bit over costed, i would rather their gun be H6 instead of D6, honestly i would just take a Stalker, its basically the same thing but for cheaper, vs a Rhino the Exorcist does 2.6 wounds where the Stalker does 2.67, so they are the same on averages but the stalker is cheaper and better vs <fly> and better vs lower toughness and Invuls of 4+ and yes they both are T8. The only problem is you need a SMHQ, but a Captain with the Relic (i think i might mix it up) so you can have Re-rolls.
Your math seems to be slightly off (or I'm missing something), the stalker should do 2 wounds and the Exorcist 3.1 on a normal Rhino. (stalker is str 7 so 4+ to wound, and normal rhinos don't get the 6+ invul so no saves vs ap4)
That aside I personally figure. That if the Exorcist was 95 points it would have the same per point damage output as a laspred (two Exors to one pred). But with more then twice the survivability. (t8 24w 6++) which would be fairly broken. Meaning the actual value of should be somewhere between 95 (borderline broken) and 135 (meh). So In my head I just pay 115 points for the Exorcist and 20 points for the Awesome model advantage it gives. (Which, since very few people i play are used to playing against sisters, translates nicely into a turn 1 fire magnet advantage)
zaahul wrote: Since we were talking about immolator earlier, HF or HB option? I feel like the HB with H6 is a better more consistent option.
Even though HF always hits, 2D6 seems to varied. Any input on which are best to take for general game play
The immolation flamer is an assault weapon, so you can get around with it fairly quickly.
For heavy bolters there is little reason to not just sit them on retributors.
I find having a Twin Multi-Melta Immolator a great help in longer ranged S8.
It usually tags along with two Rhinos to dump out BSS squads and Canoness in mid field for a Dakka Distribution Depot.
I tried adding Hunter killer Missiles since Knights are looming around most of the battlefields I frequent. I keep them off of Repressors and Immolation Cannon Immolators since they should be adavancing and shooting assault weapons anyway.
You should actually "figure" it out with math rather than guessing, lol. ;-)
Edit: that seems more hostile than I intended lol, but I mean, there is an exact answer here.
If it doesn't move, 6 shots at BS3+ means an average of 4 hits If it moves, 6 shots at effective BS4+ means an average of 3 hits
Meanwhile the Immolation Flamer averages 7 hits irrespective of whether it moved or not, or even if it advanced.
The only thing to consider is cost and range, but the Immolation Flamer is so much deadlier that and as a transport the Immo will be closer to the enemy, so I personally feel it's definitely the best choice. The decent overwatch is just a bonus.
Lanlaorn wrote: You should actually "figure" it out with math rather than guessing, lol. ;-)
Edit: that seems more hostile than I intended lol, but I mean, there is an exact answer here.
If it doesn't move, 6 shots at BS3+ means an average of 4 hits
If it moves, 6 shots at effective BS4+ means an average of 3 hits
Meanwhile the Immolation Flamer averages 7 hits irrespective of whether it moved or not, or even if it advanced.
The only thing to consider is cost and range, but the Immolation Flamer is so much deadlier that and as a transport the Immo will be closer to the enemy, so I personally feel it's definitely the best choice. The decent overwatch is just a bonus.
Its also who and how you play, if you 12" gun is not in range until turn 3, does it matter anymore? 3 turns of shooting at BS 4+ will be better than 1 turn at 7hits, and they might just be dead turn 1 or 2.
So, I took a beating from Deathwatch this weekend, but it was a fluke... my opponent badly overplayed his Corvus Blackstar and I didn't ask to see the datasheet, just assumed it was the usual old stuff vs. new stuff gap.
He claimed -1 to hit for being a Hard to Hit flyer (legit) and an additional -1 for the Halo Launcher wargear (bogus) that should have only applied to other Fly units. Basically -2 to hit for my entire army, and I couldnt touch it. He played his Hurricane bolter as Rapid Fire 12 (it's RF6) and chewed up my infantry with 24 dice per turn. He treated his lascannons and rockets as BS3+, but the Corvus doesn't have Power of the Machine Spirit. He basically killed a tank and an infantry squad every turn while ignoring return fire.
So, it was a total junk game. I have to assume he just didnt know... it was a borrowed model and he was playing the army for only the second time. I'm bummed about my one game a month being a dud, especially since I had a solid list and played well. I feel like I should have had a nice underdog index v. codex win. Oh well. Rant over.
Other thoughts to pass along: Hammer and Anvil deployment (playing the length of the board rather than the width) sucks for Sisters. Basically no alpha or beta strike due to the extra depth of the deployment zones. I had Meltas disembarking for the first time in turn 4. It was the first time in a while I'd wished for Exorcists.
As for Deathwatch, frag cannons are brutal against T3. For that matter, a whole squad of shotguns firing their flame shells (d6 auto hits at S3 x 5 dudes) was pretty rough too. The extra range they get from special issue ammo means they hit you (or rapid fire you) before you can return the favor. Basically, his whole army hit me before I could hit him, had mad rerolls to hit and wound, wounded on 4s with shotguns, 3s with bolters, and 2s with frag cannons. Ouch.
Now, if he hadn't ruined me with a broken Corvus Blackstar, I think I'd have had the model count and the mobility to outscore him and maybe even wear him down. Hard to know for sure... I really try to lose graciously and forgive honest mistakes, but the entire game turned on his misplayed flyer and I'm not afraid to say it.
That said, it seems like Deathwatch is a tough matchup in terms of wargear and buffs. Is this an army other Sororitas players have struggled with?
MacPhail wrote: So, I took a beating from Deathwatch this weekend, but it was a fluke... my opponent badly overplayed his Corvus Blackstar and I didn't ask to see the datasheet, just assumed it was the usual old stuff vs. new stuff gap.
He claimed -1 to hit for being a Hard to Hit flyer (legit) and an additional -1 for the Halo Launcher wargear (bogus) that should have only applied to other Fly units. Basically -2 to hit for my entire army, and I couldnt touch it. He played his Hurricane bolter as Rapid Fire 12 (it's RF6) and chewed up my infantry with 24 dice per turn. He treated his lascannons and rockets as BS3+, but the Corvus doesn't have Power of the Machine Spirit. He basically killed a tank and an infantry squad every turn while ignoring return fire.
So, it was a total junk game. I have to assume he just didnt know... it was a borrowed model and he was playing the army for only the second time. I'm bummed about my one game a month being a dud, especially since I had a solid list and played well. I feel like I should have had a nice underdog index v. codex win. Oh well. Rant over.
Other thoughts to pass along: Hammer and Anvil deployment (playing the length of the board rather than the width) sucks for Sisters. Basically no alpha or beta strike due to the extra depth of the deployment zones. I had Meltas disembarking for the first time in turn 4. It was the first time in a while I'd wished for Exorcists.
As for Deathwatch, frag cannons are brutal against T3. For that matter, a whole squad of shotguns firing their flame shells (d6 auto hits at S3 x 5 dudes) was pretty rough too. The extra range they get from special issue ammo means they hit you (or rapid fire you) before you can return the favor. Basically, his whole army hit me before I could hit him, had mad rerolls to hit and wound, wounded on 4s with shotguns, 3s with bolters, and 2s with frag cannons. Ouch.
Now, if he hadn't ruined me with a broken Corvus Blackstar, I think I'd have had the model count and the mobility to outscore him and maybe even wear him down. Hard to know for sure... I really try to lose graciously and forgive honest mistakes, but the entire game turned on his misplayed flyer and I'm not afraid to say it.
That said, it seems like Deathwatch is a tough matchup in terms of wargear and buffs. Is this an army other Sororitas players have struggled with?
Step 1: Make sure he knows all of the things he played wrong to prevent future abuse.
Step 2: He buys you a beer.
Step 3: Rub some dirt in and walk it off. This is war, soldier.
Step 4: Enjoy beers 2-12.
Step 1: Make sure he knows all of the things he played wrong to prevent future abuse.
Step 2: He buys you a beer.
Step 3: Rub some dirt in and walk it off. This is war, soldier.
Step 4: Enjoy beers 2-12.
Yep, we already traded emails... no harm, no foul. Thanks all, for letting me vent. Onwards for the Emperor!
I was going to but after the garbage at ATC I just didn't have another GT in me so soon.
You going and playing sisters?
Nope. Stupid wife is making me take her to stupid Iceland for a stupid honeymoon. I couldn't afford both.
I can understand choosing sex over a tournament, but this is a Grand Tournament.
Unicorns ARE sexy. To be fair, I'm going straight from a major here in STL to the airport for our trip, and I'll be spending our 1 year anniversary in Vegas at LVO. (1 year married, 13 years together)
In an actual game related note. Celestine failed to kill Eldrad last night in 4 rounds of assault while my relic cannoness stripped 15 wounds from a Wraithknight in two turns. Weird game... weird game..
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.
So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.
So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.
So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...
If you can't beat them...get a knight yourself?
I havent fought them yet, but my SOB list has 3 Shield captains for stuff like that lol.
Honestly, on a personal level not too bad. Probably because I've been using Harlequins and Dark Eldar more than Sisters. Haywire does a number on knights. It seems I'm not alone in thinking Sisters just don't have the tools to take on IKs at this point, meltas bounce off too easily and too often, Exorcists too unreliable, and nothing that can really hold up or do enough damage in CC.
Solutions, Ally in tools that can handle them, like your own knights, or Blood Angels HQs. Or, (what I'm doing) wait for the Sisters Dex or at least Chapter Approved to drop and play a different army in the interim.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
Honestly the smaller knights are probably more of a sticking point. They can rotate shields for less CP and are better able to kick their way through blocking units. Getting past them to the dominus at the back is the first problem.
Against the 4++ you'd expect one shot in every 5 or 6 attempts to land and cause 3-5 wounds. You can do worse than CP the damage roll if you have the points.
The shield stratagem makes a lot of difference, but the exorcist doesn't do enough damage to bait it out and the short range of the sisters makes it blatantly obvious which knight is going to want it. Clusters of heavy bolters with a canoness do more than you would think (if not enough to matter).
In terms of close combat squads of penitent engines will wreck knights on the charge but are too slow. Though they do have _just_ enough wounds to avoid being one-punched if they have somehow managed to avoid being shot at all game. The rest of the assault units are a bit of a wash. Three full charging squads of repentia with all the bells and whistles... won't do it, though they'd could put enough of a dent in one for the knight player to spend valuable CP to stamp on them out of sequence.
If you don't engage in melee a knight can't walk through a circle of infantry, so seraphim can briefly slow one up. If you do engage then enough rhino chassis surrounding a knight can prevent it from falling back, enough to tie up a non-combat knight for a turn or two before it stomps its way out without help. Roughly 1 wound per 3 exploding rhinos.
Otherwise pile the objectives and pray. The sisters have no special objective cards to the point control cards will come out more frequently for them.
This does not sound promising. My group is sketching out a one-off game where everyone-- everyone but me, of course-- brings all knights and superheavies. I'd run all tanks and Seraphim and hope for the best. My collection can offer 3x inferno Seraphim, 3x melta Doms, 3x Exorcists, 2x Repressors, and 4x Rhinos/Immolators as needed, plus a lone Penitent. Sounds like that isn't nearly enough.
What about target priority? Which knights have guns that can one-shot a transport? Which melee profiles do you absolutely avoid, even if it means sacrificing melta range?
MacPhail wrote: This does not sound promising. My group is sketching out a one-off game where everyone-- everyone but me, of course-- brings all knights and superheavies. I'd run all tanks and Seraphim and hope for the best. My collection can offer 3x inferno Seraphim, 3x melta Doms, 3x Exorcists, 2x Repressors, and 4x Rhinos/Immolators as needed, plus a lone Penitent. Sounds like that isn't nearly enough.
Exorcists have less firepower than a las-razorback against superheavy tanks. But between them and the meltas you'll be able to dogpile one or two.
MacPhail wrote: What about target priority? Which knights have guns that can one-shot a transport? Which melee profiles do you absolutely avoid, even if it means sacrificing melta range?
All of them can one-shot transports but the regular knights will likely need two salvos (or two weapons), more with avengers. T8 vehicles have extra protection against the battlecannon, being stepped on, and the meltas they sometimes carry.
Thunderstrike gauntlets can easily wreck a vehicle twice over in one go (particularly on the gallants who are notably more dangerous than the others close in.
Watch out for guard superheavies in close combat as they have a cheap stratagem to hit on 2+ giving your average tank 9 strength 9 attacks with -2 AP and D3 damage.
Notes:
Anti-Tank: 15 melta out of Repressors, 4 inferno pistols on the seraphim, 8 lascanons. (also the 6 Xiphon missiles, but they're S6 so better at anti-elite than anti-tank)
Anti-Horde: 3 HF, 10 SB, and the aggressors with their potential 144 bolter shots of glory.
Assault: Celestine, SmashCap, and the Canoness can function as beatsticks. The aggressors can be punchy too if need be with their 13x S8 power fists.
I've been running the Xiphons for a bit and they are sneaky MVPs. A lot of people ignore them. I've also gotten pretty decent at sniping characters with them. You just fly over the top and park the Xiphon 1.1" away and then open up with Lascannons or their missiles.
It's a tight list with a low body count. I've ran it before with 2x Dominions and 3x BSS with SB in a battalion for more CP, but then it lacks the melta punch I feel i'm going to need.
The aggressors are a point sink, but I've only gotten 4 games in with them, so I'm not sure if they're worth it yet.I don't even have them fully painted. They'll be finished tonight, though!
If I get roflstomped at Siegeworld, then most likely I'll bite the bullet and buy an IK Castellan to replace the 2 Xiphons for LVO.
As the adage goes: If you can't beat them, they are obviously heretics and you need more cleansing fire. (or join them)
Rare to see a non-BA captain described as such without all of the 'roiding-up' stratagems, etc.
Eh.. any captain with a jump pack, shield, and hammer is a smash cap to me.
BA Red Thirts is really strong, when you can wound vehicles/Knights on a 2+ thats insane, +d3 attacks for 1CP, you can actually 1 round a Knight.
True, but I don't have everyone else's obligatory IGCP battery to fuel it. Also, I'd rather have the RG aggressors to plop down anywhere on the battlefield than more of an investment in the captain. In this case, he's the tax on the aggressors/xiphons and the list isn't built around him.
I ran RG aggressors for a bit before swapping to Shield Captains. RG used to mesh really well with Sisters pre rule of 3. Post rule of 3 I find that it's hard to want to commit so much to an alpha strike/get everything to the center of the board right away technique as 3 repressors are way worse than 4-5.
Rynner wrote: I ran RG aggressors for a bit before swapping to Shield Captains. RG used to mesh really well with Sisters pre rule of 3. Post rule of 3 I find that it's hard to want to commit so much to an alpha strike/get everything to the center of the board right away technique as 3 repressors are way worse than 4-5.
I like Shield captains a lot for my SoB, they seem to work well with them.
Yeah I ran Shield Captains for awhile. I mostly like them but it's hard to turn down CP farm to power up a couple of BA captains that run behind your repressors.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.
So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...
Exactly the opposite of fun. But oh great and wise GW hath decreed that only cheap infantry and OP stuff expensive enough to not be affected by the rule of 3 be allowed. After all, everyone knows how much more fun and balanced the game is when you play the same exact Guard+knights, Eldar+Ynnari, Cultist+w/e lists over and over and over again instead of *GASP* FOUR UNITS OF DOMINIONS!!!!!?!?!?!!
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.
So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...
If you can't beat them...get a knight yourself?
This is kinda the Sisters of Battle thread...so...at least trying to come up with a sisters related solution seems fairly prudent.
Sisters are tough spot in that kind of match up. Meltas a short ramged and likely to be blasted away before getting into range with the exception of seraphim and dominions. Thats all we have range wise but you'll be wanting luck needing 4s to do anything. Exorcist is only other ranged option but last thing you need is a 135pt handicap.
Spam heavy bolter rets with heavy bolter immos? Whats that? Around 54 shots a turn...more with AoF? Mix in cannonesses for reroll 1s. Got yourself a nice static boring gunline.
Otherwise youre looking at bypassing knight invos with combat. Only option there is repentia but that is a huge points sink to make just a unit effective. They might get some good licks in the first round of combat but theyre going to immediately die to the retaliatory stomp attacks.
Hopefully the new dex next year *fingers crossed* will give us some things to answer this. (S9 or rerolling failed wound meltas because gw wants to sell our models).
....or heavily convert a knight to look sororitas if youre not patient enough for the new release.
This is kinda the Sisters of Battle thread...so...at least trying to come up with a sisters related solution seems fairly prudent.
The problem is you asking for a mono faction with the best soup in game to go against the best soup list. If it was pure Knights list, then just focus done the shooting ones and play the objectives. We "can" fully counter them with list tailoring, but a tac list is going to be hard as we dont really have MW's, strong fast Melee units (other than 1 HQ) or anytype of DSing at all, sob just dont have many of the tools other armies have. So we really should ally or just outplay the knights player.
If melta guns were better or cheaper that would be different, given them now, your looking at something like 4 damage per 4 melta guns. Sadly, a unit of HB rets only does 1-2 wounds, and a Exorcist is 2D total.
SO if you manage to get 3 units of Melta Doms in range (very hard to do) you can have 600pts deal 12 wounds....... Man i wish melta was better. IMO Melta needs to better, always 2D6 take highest vs Vehicles is a must.
I played in an RTT Saturday, with the overly elite list posted above, and boy did I get my pushed in.
My first game was against the current perfect soup list. IG + Castellan IK + 2x BA Cap'n. Lost the roll to go first, then proceeded to pull off models. The first two shots of the game were from the knight. Volcano canon. Xiphon #1 dead. Second shot was from the plasma canon. Xiphon #2 dead. 480 points gone, strong start. He had his 3 BA scouts setup in a line across the mid board, so I only got to vanguard move up 3". He actually ran at me with all of his IG and BA. I barely got a unit out of my deployment zone. Oddly enough, I didn't get tabled until top of 4 because Celestine is stubborn. He was a good guy and we made a fun game of it, but it was over before it started.
Game two was against an ultramarines guy I played last year at Siegeworld STL. We ended up tying last year based on a weird turn 6. I lost the second +1 roll off in a row, but seized on him. I had a pretty good first turn against his SM bubble and had board control and the killing advantage. He was on the ropes and I was setup perfectly to kill everything he had left (except Guilliman). My dice abandoned me. I fired 11 melta shots. 6 of 11 missed. The five that hit failed to wound. It was absolutely stunning. In return, he wiped out everything I had in that corner and I was left with a canoness opposite field sitting on a point.
Game three was against some Admech and a Castellan. I tabled him top of 3. Everything went text book.
So... I'm at a complete loss on how to make a competitive, yet fun, SoB + Soup list.
This is a SoB tactics thread, but I feel mono sisters is quite the handicap. We've been lagging behind since the rule of 3 gutted a lot of our options.
What are our best soup allies?
I've been having success locally with a Sororitas foot brigade backed up by 2x Dominions in Immolators.
That said, even at tournaments my local meta is fairly casual (DA plasma spam with IG allies, Emperor's Children mono, Guard + custodes, and then Guard + Knights is about the hardest list with no custodes).
So... I'm at a complete loss on how to make a competitive, yet fun, SoB + Soup list.
This is a SoB tactics thread, but I feel mono sisters is quite the handicap. We've been lagging behind since the rule of 3 gutted a lot of our options.
What are our best soup allies?
IG?
IK?
BA?
Custodes?
I've found that IG/BA/Custodes work well depending on what you want to do. I took Sisters/Custodes/BA to the Louisville Slugga/ATC and did fairly well at both events. I've been playing around with Sisters + IG + BA. I like CP farm but I've never liked having to defend a backfield.
Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.
Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.
Amishprn86 wrote: Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.
Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.
That's exactly what I did Saturday. I issued him a challenge to table me top of 2, and he failed. I declared the moral victory as I reported my 17-36 loss.
Amishprn86 wrote: Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.
Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.
Yes but we do have some great units. Celestine (Well she isn't great in ITC though), Seraphim, and Repressors are currently great.
I have been building my lists around 3-4 units and taking allies to fill the gaps as I've seen fit.
Amishprn86 wrote: Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.
Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.
Yes but we do have some great units. Celestine (Well she isn't great in ITC though), Seraphim, and Repressors are currently great.
I have been building my lists around 3-4 units and taking allies to fill the gaps as I've seen fit.
I wont play ITC unless i go to a tournament that rules it, our local (thank god) doesnt use it nor believe in ITC, we all agree its not balanced and just makes a different meta, why play house rules if they arent anymore balanced?
Amishprn86 wrote: Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.
Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.
Yes but we do have some great units. Celestine (Well she isn't great in ITC though), Seraphim, and Repressors are currently great.
I have been building my lists around 3-4 units and taking allies to fill the gaps as I've seen fit.
I wont play ITC unless i go to a tournament that rules it, our local (thank god) doesnt use it nor believe in ITC, we all agree its not balanced and just makes a different meta, why play house rules if they arent anymore balanced?
This is a little off topic but I don't disagree with you about ITC missions not being balanced. They are however the most common missions in the US. I know for the GT I'm running in early September people voted to us ITC missions as they know them and their pitfalls rather than go with something custom.
Celestine bleeds points in ITC missions but I still find myself taking her (although mostly w/o her friends) as her buffs are really good. Hopefully the updated missions make her less of an achilles heel.
Amishprn86 wrote: Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.
Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.
How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.
I have rolled since the Ro3 with double battalions each sporting three BSS doubled up in three Repressors with three Dom squads riding single in Repressors with Seraphim for AT, Rets + Imag/Canoness for backfield and a couple Dialogus to fend off deepstrikes on my flanks and try to spark a martyrdom for Celestine. ITC is pants on head kind of stupid for her, but I don't bother with it.
SoB are gimped for sure, Ro3 ensured that. I flirted with SoB and Knights while painting mine up, really don't like mixing them. I say give up on Vanguard unless your opponent is going second, didn't sieze and didn't infiltrate or screen you away from a worthwhile suicide target. Otherwise, its a trap. Focus fire them off objectives and play the scenario. Pray the Emperor Protects, start lighting fires because SOUP blows.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
I beat a Knight army recently w warriors and 2 Monoliths basically. It was my first stab at fighting them. I won 17-0. I played cat and mouse and really didnt engage or offer up any important targets and had him come at me. Then i popped behind and kinda forced him to choose. Once his troops choices were dead it was just about hiding and gank8ng objectives late game.
Most will bring ig derachments so if you can just kill those, you can outnumber on objectives pretty easily. I only ever killed his valliant and his troops. It was enough. So basically i acknowledged his armed supremacy and tried to outlast him.
dracpanzer wrote: How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.
It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.
As for knights, it's surprising how easy it is to fight them with some other factions. Death hex, S9 ranged weapons, worthless chaff to screen them, and a big mobile S10 melee beatstick if it broke through (it didn't, not even close). Doesn't help sisters but may curb the knights in tournaments if people start showing up with hard counters.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.
How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?
I beat a Knight army recently w warriors and 2 Monoliths basically. It was my first stab at fighting them. I won 17-0. I played cat and mouse and really didnt engage or offer up any important targets and had him come at me. Then i popped behind and kinda forced him to choose. Once his troops choices were dead it was just about hiding and gank8ng objectives late game.
Most will bring ig derachments so if you can just kill those, you can outnumber on objectives pretty easily. I only ever killed his valliant and his troops. It was enough. So basically i acknowledged his armed supremacy and tried to outlast him.
Um? Them be necrons not see sisters!
I can beat them with other armies..... the question was with sob lol
dracpanzer wrote: How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.
It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.
I get that, you would expect that with the supposed increased level of involvement the lack of any progress since the render would point to Q4 being a best case scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if it spills over in to 2020 at the earliest.
dracpanzer wrote: How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.
It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.
I get that, you would expect that with the supposed increased level of involvement the lack of any progress since the render would point to Q4 being a best case scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if it spills over in to 2020 at the earliest.
I'm putting my money on May or June. They'll either finish off the fiscal year with a big boom, or kickstart the next year with one. If they release the beta rules in CA like they mentioned, then the codex would be mostly finished. I would think the renders would be the time consuming part. Pressing start on the CNC for the molds and injections would the quick part.
dracpanzer wrote: How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.
It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models. Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.
I get that, you would expect that with the supposed increased level of involvement the lack of any progress since the render would point to Q4 being a best case scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if it spills over in to 2020 at the earliest.
I'm putting my money on May or June. They'll either finish off the fiscal year with a big boom, or kickstart the next year with one. If they release the beta rules in CA like they mentioned, then the codex would be mostly finished. I would think the renders would be the time consuming part. Pressing start on the CNC for the molds and injections would the quick part.
My bet is on Kick start the fiscal year, b.c we will have a new SM codex for the end (Im betting we get a SM codex in the next 9 months).
I'm hoping for no earlier then June, or July. GW said that they're going to release the beta in December, so I want them to have enough time to collect data and make changes for the actual Codex before publication.
Yes, I do know their reputation, but I'm being optimistic.
She is pretty mandatory. Unfortunately with the new ITC missions she bleeds victory points, so she's at a weird state right now of being necessary, but also being a huge impedence to actually winning tournament missions.
Thus is the state of Sisters, at least until Chapter Approved comes out.
Creeping Dementia wrote: She is pretty mandatory. Unfortunately with the new ITC missions she bleeds victory points, so she's at a weird state right now of being necessary, but also being a huge impedence to actually winning tournament missions.
Thus is the state of Sisters, at least until Chapter Approved comes out.
Everyone keeps saying that. Let's go over it. She only gives up:
*Headhunter: 1pt for each enemy Character that is destroyed.
1 if killed twice.
*Kingslayer: Choose an enemy model that is a Character.
4 if 8 wounds removed, 5 if she's your warlord and killed a second time.
*Marked for Death: Choose 4 of your opponent’s units with a Power Level of 7+. Earn 1 pt for each of these units destroyed.
1 if chosen and killed twice.
*Big Game Hunter: 1 point for every enemy model with the Monster or Vehicle keyword and 7+ wounds destroyed.
0
*Titan Slayers: For every 8 wounds lost by enemy units with the Titanic keyword in total throughout the course of the game, earn 1 point.
0
The Reaper: For every 20 enemy models destroyed, earn 1 point.
1 if she is in the pile of 20 modes and killed twice.
Recon: Have a unit at least partially in each table quarter at the end of your player turn. A unit may only count as being in one table quarter at a time for the purposes of this rule. 1pt per turn.
0
Behind Enemy Lines: If at least one of your units is wholly in the enemy Deployment Zone at the start of your turn, earn 1 Point. A unit is wholly in if every model in the unit is at least partially in the enemy Deployment Zone.
0
The Butcher’s Bill: Destroy 2+ enemy units during a player turn to earn 1 Point.
1 If killed twice.
Ground Control: Earn 1 point for each objective held at the end of the last Battle Round played.
0
Old School: Earn 1 point for the following:
● First Strike: An enemy unit is destroyed in the first Battle Round.
1 If killed twice first round.
● Slay the Warlord: The enemy Warlord is destroyed at game’s end.
1 if killed twice.
● Linebreaker: Have one of your models within your opponent’s deployment zone at the end of the game.
0
● Last Strike: An enemy unit is destroyed in the last Battle Round played.
1 if killed twice last round.
So at most she can give up 7 on her own if she's the warlord. Kingslayer + Old School + (Headhunter/First Strike/Last Strike/Butcher's Bill/Marked for Death/Reaper)
The reason I ask is I've developed a Mechanized Brigade where everything except the Seraphim and Retributors fit into transport vehicles (3 Repressors and 3 Immolators) at 2k. But to do this, I had to drop Celestine's 200 points.
I like the brigade and I like mechanized sisters, but I don't like losing Celestine.
The twin Gemini are characters also, people say that killing one of her BFFs thus scores a point for Headhunter (and makes that ridiculously easy to complete)
GW say that the Geminae do not count as unnamed characters so they cannot take the relic sword. It's to balance the unit and not make it even more powerful than it already is, otherwise they'd have to increase the cost to balance around it.
ITC say that the Geminae count as characters so they give up a point for head hunter every time one of them dies. it's to make her less attractive to imperial soup lists, unfortunately it means that it's a nerf to one of the only two good things in our index.
Although with the itc ruling, if a geminae is killed and head hunter is scored, surely that must mean that it's a viable trigger for the martyrdom stratagem?
Where is that ruling published? I've had people mention it before, but no one seems to have a written copy of it.
Plus, as of last week, secondaries don't stack anymore.
*Secondaries marked with an asterisk may not earn more than one point for destroying any one unit. If such a unit would award points for multiple secondaries, you must decide which it scores at the time it is destroyed. For example, if you chose Marked for Death and Big Game Hunter, and Marked an enemy Rhino, you must decide which Secondary Mission you earn a single point for when you destroy it.
So you can't use HH and KS for Celestine. I forgot that bit in my earlier post.
I can't see where it's written down but I believe the argument is that:
The Geminae are on Celestine's dataslate, which has the <Character> keyword, there for the Geminae models gain the <Character> key word. If one is killed then it counts as a model with the <Character> keyword having died.
Headhunter is worded as "*Headhunter: 1pt for each enemy <Character> that is destroyed. " Not score 1 point for each unit with the <Character> keyword that was destroyed.
How does Celestine interact with the Kingslayer secondary?
Treat Celestine and her Geminae Superia as a single model for the purpose of this mission. Wounds dealt to any of the models in the unit count towards Kingslayer, but destroying Celestine or the Geminae Superia do not count towards any other non-stacking secondaries.
It makes her less of a liability than before which is nice.
Unit1126PLL wrote: How necessary is St. Celestine? I'd say she's practically mandatory for a mono-Sororitas list, but I'm just curious.
Very, considering without her you are limited to just the Canoness, three times.
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Unit1126PLL wrote: The reason I ask is I've developed a Mechanized Brigade where everything except the Seraphim and Retributors fit into transport vehicles (3 Repressors and 3 Immolators) at 2k. But to do this, I had to drop Celestine's 200 points.
I like the brigade and I like mechanized sisters, but I don't like losing Celestine.
Go double battalion, she fits just fine without all the extra req's.
How does Celestine interact with the Kingslayer secondary?
Treat Celestine and her Geminae Superia as a single model for the purpose of this mission. Wounds dealt to any of the models in the unit count towards Kingslayer, but destroying Celestine or the Geminae Superia do not count towards any other non-stacking secondaries.
It makes her less of a liability than before which is nice.
How does Celestine interact with the Kingslayer secondary?
Treat Celestine and her Geminae Superia as a single model for the purpose of this mission. Wounds dealt to any of the models in the unit count towards Kingslayer, but destroying Celestine or the Geminae Superia do not count towards any other non-stacking secondaries.
It makes her less of a liability than before which is nice.
Unit1126PLL wrote: How necessary is St. Celestine? I'd say she's practically mandatory for a mono-Sororitas list, but I'm just curious.
Very, considering without her you are limited to just the Canoness, three times.
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Unit1126PLL wrote: The reason I ask is I've developed a Mechanized Brigade where everything except the Seraphim and Retributors fit into transport vehicles (3 Repressors and 3 Immolators) at 2k. But to do this, I had to drop Celestine's 200 points.
I like the brigade and I like mechanized sisters, but I don't like losing Celestine.
Go double battalion, she fits just fine without all the extra req's.
My struggle with double BN is that I end up with only 1 or 2 fewer options anyways: maybe 1 fewer Elite (saves 40 pts), and 1 fewer HS (saves like, barely 100 points), and then makes me buy an extra Canoness anyways (because you need 4 HQs). That's still not enough to allow Celestine in.
Right now, I like having: 1) A firebase of at least two Retributor Squads with HBs, Imagifier, Canoness (280 points ish) (Lately I've splurged for a foot-mobile unit of heavy-flamer Retributors who have been surprisingly productive at deterring this firebase from being attacked, mostly by melting the first wave of attackers to goo)
2) 2 all-melta Dominion squads in Immolators with Immolation Flamers for tank hunting. (480)
3) 10 Seraphim with inferno pistols to screen for celestine and help with tank hunting (~150)
4) 6 Sororitas squads (either around 10 girls each on foot plus an Imagifier to help them along, or 5 girls each in 3 Repressors, so ~616 for foot and 636 in repressors)
This is already ~1600 points or so, and only has 1 HQ in it, and for double BN I'd need 4 (assuming 2 more stock Canonesses that puts me at like 1700), and a mechanized unit to carry them (103 for Immolator) puts me at just over 1800ish. I can look into squeezing her in, maybe.
GW say that the Geminae do not count as unnamed characters so they cannot take the relic sword. It's to balance the unit and not make it even more powerful than it already is, otherwise they'd have to increase the cost to balance around it.
ITC say that the Geminae count as characters so they give up a point for head hunter every time one of them dies. it's to make her less attractive to imperial soup lists, unfortunately it means that it's a nerf to one of the only two good things in our index.
Although with the itc ruling, if a geminae is killed and head hunter is scored, surely that must mean that it's a viable trigger for the martyrdom stratagem?
The gemini can trigger the martyrdom strategem... but read the end of the strategem. You must remove the WHOLE unit the character was part of at the end of the turn. So... that means you just killed off any remaining gemini and celestine to trigger an act of faith. I don't think this will be worth it 99% of the time.
The reason the gemini can't take the relic sword is related to the fact they are "named" characters and no other named character can take relics. Sucks... but yes... thats what it is.
I think the biggest problem with sisters currently with ITC is how our core build gives up almost every itc secondary and our army is short ranged, meaning we can't keep up with the progressive mission style.
celestine gives up king slayer
Transports bleed BGH
moment of blood shed is cake with t3 models and 5 man size and BGH stacking with moment.
AND we can't even sit back and "out poke" like we used to because our exorcist is terrible.. str 8/ap-4 is good... but d6 shots and d3 dmg makes it terrible. The exorcist had random shots in previous editions because when it shot 3 shots it was on par with things like lascannon predators... but half the time is spiked to more efficient... now... its utter crap. If the missiles did flat 6 damage per hit and it fired 2d3 shots it'd be back to the old spikey efficiency (and rightfully feared status). OR... fire 2d6 shots... the damage output of sisters at range is crap.
My understanding this edition is that... Pt for point... storm bolters are the best weapon sisters of battle have and cause more damage than anything else. I'm gonna do some comparisons in excel one day and share
Just to clarify. According to the 2017 CAFAQ losing a Geminae does not trigger Martyrdom. The entire unit has to be destroyed to before you can use it. Small change, but in the spirit of getting it right.
Fought a looong and inconclusive game against Thousands Sons today. I enjoy playing this opponent, but today he had a new build with a lot of relatively new and less familiar powers, stratagems, etc. We didn't get past turn 2 after quite a few hours; he was up on Maelstrom points, but I was turning the tide. Magnus and his warlord were both down to their last wound: the Warlord I ran down with Seraphim, and Magnus was dragged down by Celestine, Bullgryns, and an Inquisitorial Vanguard. The cards hadn't gone my way early and I really needed another turn after my Scions hit the board. Takeaway message: Magnus is a badass, and the volume of Smite and other psychic ruination 1kSons can bring is frightening. Having 3x Deny attempts plus Purity of Faith is was got me through those phases.
I took 3rd at the tournament last night with Sisters of Battle.
My loss was to the ridiculous Imperial Knight, with two mini-Knights. He had three Blood Angel Captains and 15 scouts. He had an IGCP battery with Straken and a Priest.
I had a perfectly executed first turn but dice simply would not cooperate. I failed to kill anything important which was absurdly unlikely. Even Celestine and her minions couldnt kill 5 scouts.
And in my second turn, it was similar luck. Two of his captains took massive firepower to the face and lived AGAIN.
Came away feeling pretty cheated (not by him). If we played that game 10 times, I win it 8. But not this day. Lol.
It felt like good news to me because his Knight alone couldnt win it for him and he was most definitely in trouble. I just couldnt close the deal.
Jancoran wrote: I took 3rd at the tournament last night with Sisters of Battle.
My loss was to the ridiculous Imperial Knight, with two mini-Knights. He had three Blood Angel Captains and 15 scouts. He had an IGCP battery with Straken and a Priest.
I had a perfectly executed first turn but dice simply would not cooperate. I failed to kill anything important which was absurdly unlikely. Even Celestine and her minions couldnt kill 5 scouts.
And in my second turn, it was similar luck. Two of his captains took massive firepower to the face and lived AGAIN.
Came away feeling pretty cheated (not by him). If we played that game 10 times, I win it 8. But not this day. Lol.
It felt like good news to me because his Knight alone couldnt win it for him and he was most definitely in trouble. I just couldnt close the deal.
My local shop is just getting into tournament play. We are setting up a 750 pt tournament in Oct.
Interesting to see all the discussion about Celestine. Honestly, I'm tired of using her - or feeling that I have to. I know our options are limited at the moment. But I am working on a list for this 750pt, to build to a 1500pt later that does not require Celestine. When I do run her, I have been taking her without either of the twins. if she dies, that deep strike her somewhere else.
Without the twins she is 200pt, my 750pt battalion line up has a 195pt vanguard detachment to be used as the HtH replacement for Celestine. Not sure how well it will work, but going to test it.
Canoness: Blade of Admonition / Plasma pistol
Priest
Imagifier
Celestian Squad: Power Maul, Storm bolter x2
I know, I know everyone say don't use Celestian squads. But, I look at it that my Canoness now has 9 wounds... and with the Priest there is a total of 21 attacks coming from Canoness / Celestian team. Now only 9 of those are any -AP.
The lore of the Order of the Argent Shroud, they typically have more Seraphim and Celestian squads - lore doesn't win tournaments, but its fun.
Tournaments =/= ITC, there are many tournament rules packets, even GW has their own. Before getting worried, worked up, or happy about the rules we are talking about, its very important to know this is 1 type of rules set. All large tournaments have House Rules and House Missions that can completely change the game.
With your list, for Small/low points, for your list, IDK if an Imagifier is worth it at all, try to get some type of 5man BSS at least for more bodies or a small Seraphim to keep Celestine alive, b.c it looks like she will be doing most the worth, you have no long range at all, so you need to make up with bodies/movement.
With that Vanguard, there is a Battallion
2x Canoness
2x BSS squad w/ melta, heavy bolter, storm bolter
1x BSS squad with 3 storm bolter
1x Seraphim squad 4x inferno, 1 plasma
2x Immolator tanks w/ heavy bolters
Just testing out the 200 point allotment for Celestine with a the HtH Vanguard
I get not wanting Celestine at that point level. She's a bit much for 750. At higher point levels it becomes more difficult to build a list without her.
Looking at your list, I think I would recommend you ditch the Celestians and use the points to buy wargear for your other two Canoness requirements. If you still have spare points a Hospitaller in the mix will allow you to heal more wounds on your HQ than your Celestians will let you absorb.
I may be misremembering the bodyguard rule but I believe its each unsaved wound kills a Celestian, so additional damage after the first wound kills another Celestian. It would be great if one Celestian could soak up a 6 damage lascannon shot, but it would wipe the squad in one go.
Amishprn86 wrote: Tournaments =/= ITC, there are many tournament rules packets, even GW has their own. Before getting worried, worked up, or happy about the rules we are talking about, its very important to know this is 1 type of rules set. All large tournaments have House Rules and House Missions that can completely change the game.
With your list, for Small/low points, for your list, IDK if an Imagifier is worth it at all, try to get some type of 5man BSS at least for more bodies or a small Seraphim to keep Celestine alive, b.c it looks like she will be doing most the worth, you have no long range at all, so you need to make up with bodies/movement.
I know you dislike ITC (for some reason), but there's a couple points to mention for those uninitiated. Not all tournaments are ITC, but the vast majority in the US are. It's easy to find them, they're promoted well, the rules generally speak to balance, and there's a fun ranking system to compare yourself with others. But the most important part about ITC, is there are no strict rules or missions. Literally any tournament format can be ITC. I've participated in ITC highlander tournaments. ITC's only mission is to get people to play tabletop games. That's it. It's not sinister or elitist.
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zaahul wrote: Guess I should have posted the full list.
With that Vanguard, there is a Battallion
2x Canoness
2x BSS squad w/ melta, heavy bolter, storm bolter
1x BSS squad with 3 storm bolter
1x Seraphim squad 4x inferno, 1 plasma
2x Immolator tanks w/ heavy bolters
Just testing out the 200 point allotment for Celestine with a the HtH Vanguard
I would also suggest taking a look at some heavy bolter rets with an Imagifer. for the ~130 points you can fire 24 HB shots.The 40 point imagifer might be pricy, tho. And... obvisouly, Repressors over immolators.
Amishprn86 wrote: Tournaments =/= ITC, there are many tournament rules packets, even GW has their own. Before getting worried, worked up, or happy about the rules we are talking about, its very important to know this is 1 type of rules set. All large tournaments have House Rules and House Missions that can completely change the game.
With your list, for Small/low points, for your list, IDK if an Imagifier is worth it at all, try to get some type of 5man BSS at least for more bodies or a small Seraphim to keep Celestine alive, b.c it looks like she will be doing most the worth, you have no long range at all, so you need to make up with bodies/movement.
I know you dislike ITC (for some reason), but there's a couple points to mention for those uninitiated. Not all tournaments are ITC, but the vast majority in the US are. It's easy to find them, they're promoted well, the rules generally speak to balance, and there's a fun ranking system to compare yourself with others. But the most important part about ITC, is there are no strict rules or missions. Literally any tournament format can be ITC. I've participated in ITC highlander tournaments. ITC's only mission is to get people to play tabletop games. That's it. It's not sinister or elitist.
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zaahul wrote: Guess I should have posted the full list.
With that Vanguard, there is a Battallion 2x Canoness 2x BSS squad w/ melta, heavy bolter, storm bolter 1x BSS squad with 3 storm bolter 1x Seraphim squad 4x inferno, 1 plasma 2x Immolator tanks w/ heavy bolters
Just testing out the 200 point allotment for Celestine with a the HtH Vanguard
I would also suggest taking a look at some heavy bolter rets with an Imagifer. for the ~130 points you can fire 24 HB shots.The 40 point imagifer might be pricy, tho. And... obvisouly, Repressors over immolators.
My point was that not all tournaments are ITC, i was only saying it b.c he needs to check the rules for the tournament 1st before he builds his list. This should always be your 1st thing you do when going to a tournament.
I wasnt saying it b.c of my bias against ITC, but just to help him out that not all are ITC.
I think this list adds a little bit of everything. Using the two canoness as main HtH with repentia as fodder. Want to take death cult instead and or a priest, but then you cant use the stratagems unless they are in a separate detachment
BSS as objective holders. And Dom / Seraphims as fast antiarmor
I would add the Rets, but lack of Imagifiers and points.
Jancoran wrote: I took 3rd at the tournament last night with Sisters of Battle.
My loss was to the ridiculous Imperial Knight, with two mini-Knights. He had three Blood Angel Captains and 15 scouts. He had an IGCP battery with Straken and a Priest.
I had a perfectly executed first turn but dice simply would not cooperate. I failed to kill anything important which was absurdly unlikely. Even Celestine and her minions couldnt kill 5 scouts.
And in my second turn, it was similar luck. Two of his captains took massive firepower to the face and lived AGAIN.
Came away feeling pretty cheated (not by him). If we played that game 10 times, I win it 8. But not this day. Lol.
It felt like good news to me because his Knight alone couldnt win it for him and he was most definitely in trouble. I just couldnt close the deal.
Rynner wrote: Did the Exorcists do anything for you? I've found them to be lack luster.
If your opponent has not played against a Sister's army before the Exorcists will draw a great deal of fire that would otherwise be pointed at your vulnerable transports.
Even though they are not the best Heavy Support option, they are one of the few weapons that can drop fire on the enemy at great range.
Rynner wrote: Did the Exorcists do anything for you? I've found them to be lack luster.
Their range allows me to assist my forward units in finishing things off with relatively little worry I will lose them. They are t8 and my army is pretty much in their face turn one so theres a lot of priorities before you get to exorcists. 12 wounds. I mean, it's not the answer to cancer but as a finisher? Pretty useful if you wait til last to fire them.
So.... I played at nova and ended up going 3-1 with sisters primary before brackets. I probably could have won that first game upon reflection and I have to say sisters seem to lend themselves more to "end game" win conditions more than the ITC progressive style.
To me this means we need to have better "punches" available that can kill a unit each turn while our bodies focus on having more objectives. Hopefully exorcists get updated to fill this role.
frgsinwntr wrote: So.... I played at nova and ended up going 3-1 with sisters primary before brackets. I probably could have won that first game upon reflection and I have to say sisters seem to lend themselves more to "end game" win conditions more than the ITC progressive style.
To me this means we need to have better "punches" available that can kill a unit each turn while our bodies focus on having more objectives. Hopefully exorcists get updated to fill this role.
What was your list if you dont mind?
And i agree the Exorcist needs more punch for sure.
frgsinwntr wrote: So.... I played at nova and ended up going 3-1 with sisters primary before brackets. I probably could have won that first game upon reflection and I have to say sisters seem to lend themselves more to "end game" win conditions more than the ITC progressive style.
To me this means we need to have better "punches" available that can kill a unit each turn while our bodies focus on having more objectives. Hopefully exorcists get updated to fill this role.
What was your list if you dont mind?
And i agree the Exorcist needs more punch for sure.
My list... was nothing special to be honest. I finished 27th overall
Rd 1, barely lost to guard/custodes/hellverns... i misplayed and could have charged a shield captain on an objective with a tank so my obsec sisters could have claimed the objective for the win...
Rd 2, beat spacewolves (dreads) and hellverns ... great guy, loved our game, his list was not optimized for nova missions.
Rd 3, beat castellan, ultra smash captain, Fire raptor, guard cp battery, and aggressors... I won pretty big here... with 5 models left on the table
Rd 4 beat Mortarion/big terminator unit/cultists/princes and ahriman.... killed morty turn 1 when he was shoved in my face, then won end game objectives as i fed units at his buffed termi unit so they couldn't kill everything.
Sororitas: Order of the Curcubita Ordoramen Brigrade
HQ cannoness with evisorator/plasma pistol 64
HQ cannoness with power sword/melta pistol 58
HQ Celestine, one friend 225
Elite 5 celestians with bolters, vet with chainsword 55
Elite 5 celestians with bolters, vet with chainsword 55
Elite imagrifier 40
troops 5 sisters, 3 storm bolters, vet with chainsword 51
troops 5 sisters, 3 storm bolters, vet with chainsword 51
troops 5 sisters, 3 storm bolters, vet with chainsword 51
troops 5 sisters, 3 storm bolters, vet with chainsword 51
troops 5 sisters, 3 storm bolters, vet with chainsword 51
troops 5 sisters, 3 storm bolters, vet with chainsword 51
fast 5 dominions with storm bolters, vet with chainsword 60
fast 5 dominions with storm bolters, vet with chainsword 60
fast 5 dominions with storm bolters, vet with chainsword 60
Heavy 5 retributors with 3 heavy bolters 75
Heavy 5 retributors with 3 heavy bolters 75
Heavy 5 retributors with bolters 45
Supreme command (BA)
HQ Blood angels hammer/shield jump captain (death visions, angels wing) 129
HQ Blood angels hammer/shield jump captain (WL, death visions, veritas vitea ) 129
Heavy whirlwind with vengence launcher 104
Heavy whirlwind with vengence launcher 104
Heavy whirlwind with vengence launcher 104
They are a highly underrated unit. I'd probably take a culexus/callidus/eversor next time
As far as not doing much... I think that most people i see try to use them as hammers. They are actually harassing units. Smash captains are hammers. A callidus is there to kill backfield units that you won't be able to shoot with your retributors, or to add a little more poke with the mortal wounds. They won't go toe to toe with tough targets... they are there to fight away from the main battle and kill the opponents supporting units
A vindicare sometimes spikes and kills things... but really they are there to make your opponent play differently... you can use the "threat" of a vindicare to force your opponent down channels that aren't optimal... basically they try to play around it and you can use this to your advantage. People are really afraid of them and try to minimize their output... which in itself is doing a lot if you can plan for that.
Eversors are closer to hammers... but still they can't be unsupported
Culexus won't do much... but they'll soak a lot of fire and they'll finish off stragglers....and with good positioning they can stop smites from things like smash captains.
Oh i dont think they are hammers at all, they are unique role that many units dont have, they just dont seem to be worth the points for me so far, around 80pts ish i could do more with in SoB,
Amishprn86 wrote: Oh i dont think they are hammers at all, they are unique role that many units dont have, they just dont seem to be worth the points for me so far, around 80pts ish i could do more with in SoB,
In nova format, they often allowed me to earn secondaries, very worth it. But in ITC, they'd likely not be worth it due to the hyperfocus ITC has on KILL KILL KILL
Does anyone that has been to Warhammer world conventions or Release conventions etc asked or know if the new SoB (2019 release) are gunna be on 32mm bases or 25mm bases?
I recently (as in last year or so) converted my SoB to 32mm (have around 2k or so left to do). Just wondering if worth my time to convert over or wait out?
Sorry I didn't re-read in case was said before (I did skim a few pages. However, a lot of pages, but skimmed the last couple).
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Does anyone that has been to Warhammer world conventions or Release conventions etc asked or know if the new SoB (2019 release) are gunna be on 32mm bases or 25mm bases?
I recently (as in last year or so) converted my SoB to 32mm (have around 2k or so left to do). Just wondering if worth my time to convert over or wait out?
Sorry I didn't re-read in case was said before (I did skim a few pages. However, a lot of pages, but skimmed the last couple).
Spectral Ceramite wrote: Does anyone that has been to Warhammer world conventions or Release conventions etc asked or know if the new SoB (2019 release) are gunna be on 32mm bases or 25mm bases?
I recently (as in last year or so) converted my SoB to 32mm (have around 2k or so left to do). Just wondering if worth my time to convert over or wait out?
Sorry I didn't re-read in case was said before (I did skim a few pages. However, a lot of pages, but skimmed the last couple).
The 'Only 1 regenerated CP per turn, no matter the source' rule makes me think that they're going to spread that ability out to all the armies in some fashion or another.
Otherwise I'll just continue work on that Ubiquitous Guard battalion to fold in if the Chapter Approved Sisters Open Beta list has any decent Stratagems to use.
However, I notice that 'Rule of Three' for Matched Play was not made official in the same way that reserves were... Hope for Dominion Spam once more.
I'm torn on the rule of 3. Not being able to spam dominions has forced more variety into my lists and probably made them better but at the same time I want to spam dominions sooooo badly.
Yeah we are not that effected by it, if you are like me and play celestine and 3 units of seraphim, the new fly rules you need to remember not to use fly in charge, pile in, and consolidate phases now.
If anything it helps us a lot, if we go 2nd we can have 80-120 bodies with a 2+ save turn 1 without trying.
PS: my Local has already been playing Ro3 since the 1st addition to the beta rules, its not that big of a deal, i take 3 Doms, 3 Rets, 3 Seraphim, 2 Canoness, Celestine, 3 BSS as my base every game and i highly enjoy it.
Before the Ro3 it was 6 Doms, 6 Rets, i lost some movement and weapon damage for sure, but its not as "TFG" feeling anymore.
Rynner wrote: I'm torn on the rule of 3. Not being able to spam dominions has forced more variety into my lists and probably made them better but at the same time I want to spam dominions sooooo badly.
My problem with the Ro3 has always been that we have so few units across all unit types. Sisters having a maximum of four HQ choices is rudiculous from a rule designed to prevent 7 flyrants from showing up that still doesn't stop you from bringing 15 hellhounds. As the CA list draws closer the idea of additional data-slates for our army is starting to smell like hope. Though we know what lies down that road...
My double Battalion all SoB list got a buff from the FAQ. Avoided the non Battle Forged CP nerf, Repressors went up to a 2+/5++ when not going first and no longer have to think about turn one deepstrike screens just to get out of my deployment zone without being assaulted. No nerfs came our way (I have never embraced the vertical weirdness of the fly rule in 8ed anyways) so for the most part all of those are buffs for us.
I think the meta loyal "32" might just become "64" to overcome the BFCP nerf, who knows, it does put its cost a bit closer to my BSS cost in a double Batt build. I don't think we have to look very far to see where the Meta will go to counter the FAQ. If CA comes the same times as last year, maybe we will get some new tricks to make a bump when it shows up.
Rynner wrote: I'm torn on the rule of 3. Not being able to spam dominions has forced more variety into my lists and probably made them better but at the same time I want to spam dominions sooooo badly.
My problem with the Ro3 has always been that we have so few units across all unit types. Sisters having a maximum of four HQ choices is rudiculous from a rule designed to prevent 7 flyrants from showing up that still doesn't stop you from bringing 15 hellhounds. As the CA list draws closer the idea of additional data-slates for our army is starting to smell like hope. Though we know what lies down that road...
My double Battalion all SoB list got a buff from the FAQ. Avoided the non Battle Forged CP nerf, Repressors went up to a 2+/5++ when not going first and no longer have to think about turn one deepstrike screens just to get out of my deployment zone without being assaulted. No nerfs came our way (I have never embraced the vertical weirdness of the fly rule in 8ed anyways) so for the most part all of those are buffs for us.
I think the meta loyal "32" might just become "64" to overcome the BFCP nerf, who knows, it does put its cost a bit closer to my BSS cost in a double Batt build. I don't think we have to look very far to see where the Meta will go to counter the FAQ. If CA comes the same times as last year, maybe we will get some new tricks to make a bump when it shows up.
What are the loyal 32?
A 2+ Repressor sounds great if/when I back to running them.
I've been running 2 Dominion squads with Meltas in one Repressor and another Dominion squad with flamers, CombiFlamer, and a Canoness with CombiFlamer who runs up behind and jumps in turn 1 before the second Repressor moves.
6d6 autohits against that annoying bubblewrap? So nice...
I still run all SB Doms, they get ignored more for some reason. I double up my BSS in Repressors, each squad brings one MG and two SB's. All six specials can shoot out, I don't have that fistful of MG shots that will miss 3 of 5 everytime, can still rattle off 20 SB shots with the Repressors thrown in and leave the tank killing to my Seraphim.
Has anyone tried running Celestians recently? With the 'why aren't you just running more Doms?' Question answered, I'm curious to know if +1WS and +1A for counter charges has any potential appeal at 2 ppm.
Celestians have the problem of BSS being able to do the same job for less.
Ive not found use for them myself. Maybe throwing a priest near a max squad might be worth trying, but the again, why the heck would anyone throw them into combat. Oonly time i put sisters into combat is to sacrifice them to prevent a threatening unit from shooting or charging on their own terms.
Lammia wrote: Has anyone tried running Celestians recently? With the 'why aren't you just running more Doms?' Question answered, I'm curious to know if +1WS and +1A for counter charges has any potential appeal at 2 ppm.
I tried for a long time, even using them as elite fillers in a brigade after the Ro3. BSS are just cheaper for all the things that both Celestians and BSS SHOULD be doing.
Lammia wrote: Has anyone tried running Celestians recently? With the 'why aren't you just running more Doms?' Question answered, I'm curious to know if +1WS and +1A for counter charges has any potential appeal at 2 ppm.
They can potentially tank a little first turn fire for Celestine before she gets off the line, or fill out a multi-canoness assault unit (as ablative wounds). Though deepstrike changes have made getting shot from behind in the first turn unlikely.
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [31 PL, 544pts] ++
Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf [7 PL, 154pts]: Saga of the Wolfkin, Storm shield, Thunder hammer, Warlord
- The Wulfen Stone: Relic of The Fang
Rune Priest on Bike [8 PL, 130pts]: 2. Tempest's Wrath, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Bolt pistol, Runic armour, Runic axe
- Bike: Twin boltgun
Rune Priest on Bike [8 PL, 130pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 6. Jaws of the World Wolf, Bolt pistol, Runic armour, Runic axe
- Bike: Twin boltgun
Rune Priest on Bike [8 PL, 130pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 5. Storm Caller, Bolt pistol, Runic armour, Runic axe
- Bike: Twin boltgun
My only goal for the weekend is to kill 3 units with 1 Living Lightning.
Rynner wrote: Why the wolves? I get the living lighting thing but even with the fly nerf I still think BA are way better.
Well, I already have the wolves and bike priests. But I also have a jump captain. All of my Imperial units are the same paint scheme and interchangeable. This will be my first attempt with wolves in 8th. The lord is a pretty good beat stick without any CP help, unlike Smash Cap who is CP thirsty. A Rune Priest can dish out 80 attacks in a single turn with the correct circumstances. (real fringe possibility, but a fun stat to state). I spent most of 7th running Sister/Wolves. After this weekend GT I'll have the lightning itch scratched and I'll drop 2 rune priests for a squad of aggressors to outflank on turn 2 for the first week of a new league.
It's not the best list by any means. I'm just planning on having some fun with it.
I hear you about wanting chapter approved. If I wasn't going all in on attempting to win best sisters in ITC this year (I think it'll come down to LVO though) I would have probably shelved them for now.
Rynner wrote: Why the wolves? I get the living lighting thing but even with the fly nerf I still think BA are way better.
Well, I already have the wolves and bike priests. But I also have a jump captain. All of my Imperial units are the same paint scheme and interchangeable. This will be my first attempt with wolves in 8th. The lord is a pretty good beat stick without any CP help, unlike Smash Cap who is CP thirsty. A Rune Priest can dish out 80 attacks in a single turn with the correct circumstances. (real fringe possibility, but a fun stat to state). I spent most of 7th running Sister/Wolves. After this weekend GT I'll have the lightning itch scratched and I'll drop 2 rune priests for a squad of aggressors to outflank on turn 2 for the first week of a new league.
It's not the best list by any means. I'm just planning on having some fun with it.
Dear CA 2018,
Get here faster.
Love,
Josh
80 attacks from a rune priest? Not at all on topic, but I didn;t know that was even a thing lol
Rynner wrote: What do you guys think of the Hosptilar? I'm currently mulling over my list for the Michigan GT and I'm torn on taking one or not.
The general concensus is your better off paying the extra points for a 'Box of Bones' as they're always going to do something and can fill the Hospitallar role in a pinch.
Edit: Also, squads aren't likely to stay on the board long enough for her to be useful in a GT.
That's fair on the imagifer. The one advantage the Hospitilar has is that I can heal a unit and act of faith them.
I don't think I'm going to be taking one because I found a far better use of those points but I really want to try it out one day. I'll let you all know if I do try it out.
Rynner wrote: That's fair on the imagifer. The one advantage the Hospitilar has is that I can heal a unit and act of faith them.
I don't think I'm going to be taking one because I found a far better use of those points but I really want to try it out one day. I'll let you all know if I do try it out.
yeah, bring back 1 11-19pt model once a turn isnt really worth it lol.
We already have a 6++ no? I could get behind some kind of Feel no Pain aura though. I play a Hospitaller sometimes for my base of fire Rets alongside an Imagifer. The one unit can only AoF once, shooting twice with a resurrectable model is nice, and sometimes getting two back up us better than shooting twice. I don't make sure to set aside parts for her, but if Inhave them to spare why not.
dracpanzer wrote: We already have a 6++ no? I could get behind some kind of Feel no Pain aura though. I play a Hospitaller sometimes for my base of fire Rets alongside an Imagifer. The one unit can only AoF once, shooting twice with a resurrectable model is nice, and sometimes getting two back up us better than shooting twice. I don't make sure to set aside parts for her, but if Inhave them to spare why not.
dracpanzer wrote: We already have a 6++ no? I could get behind some kind of Feel no Pain aura though. I play a Hospitaller sometimes for my base of fire Rets alongside an Imagifer. The one unit can only AoF once, shooting twice with a resurrectable model is nice, and sometimes getting two back up us better than shooting twice. I don't make sure to set aside parts for her, but if Inhave them to spare why not.
Or there's the plan to make the Chapter Approved Beta List suck in order to genereate controversy/buzz/etc.
Then for the March FAQ they can swing wildly in the other direction and make them overpowered.
That way the September FAQ can bring them in line with other armies while the Codex goes off to the printers.
Just in time for the Codex release at 11:59:59 PM on December 31st, 2019 (See! It totally was released in 2019!) and for 40K 9th Edition to be announced January 1st, 2020 to come out January 8th 2020 and introduce new rules which make the Sisters Codex unplayable.
Frowbakk wrote: Or there's the plan to make the Chapter Approved Beta List suck in order to genereate controversy/buzz/etc.
Then for the March FAQ they can swing wildly in the other direction and make them overpowered.
That way the September FAQ can bring them in line with other armies while the Codex goes off to the printers.
Just in time for the Codex release at 11:59:59 PM on December 31st, 2019 (See! It totally was released in 2019!) and for 40K 9th Edition to be announced January 1st, 2020 to come out January 8th 2020 and introduce new rules which make the Sisters Codex unplayable.
I like this plan and fully support it. That gives us 6 months of a curbstomping codex before going back to the way it's been the last few years. I'll make that trade.
Might get in a bit trouble as I'm going to be asking a similar question in other tactics threads over the next couple of days.
I'm looking at changing up my current guard/dkok army into an inquisitorial task force of 1350 of guard and 650pt of sister, grey knights and deathwatch that can be swapped out to keep the army feeling fresh while having a cohesive theme for display.
Any suggestions of a good general purpose 650pts of sisters?
To keep the post short here's a brief overview of the 3 ideas I've had:
A patrol with celestine, melta seraphim and 2 squads of storm bolter equipped sisters in immolators.
Pros: nice mix of units for a mix of play styles
Cons: no cp, a living Saint seems out of place in an inquisition army but maybe I could come up with a suitable conversion/fluff reason.
A out rider detachment with a canoness, melta dominion squad in a repressor, 2 storm bolter dominions squads in immolators.
Pros: drive by repressor is an effective anti tank unit, visually fits theme of army better, scouting vehicles pair up well with my scouting grenadiers in centaurs.
Cons: little cp
A battalion of 2 canoness, 2 melta sister squads in repressors
1 storm bolter squad in an immolators
Pros: more cps (especially if I decide to field the ordo millant forces together and leave the guard at home), more anti tank
Cons: less mobile with out the scout move, only 1 immolator (I love these tanks)
Also interested in colour schemes, as the usual black and red is the same as inquisitorial storm troopers so might look a bit bland, not sure whether to change the guard element or use an alternative sisters scheme, I tend to prefer more subdued schemes looks a bit more realistic (as 40k can be :p) rather than the traditional guided pageantry.
You take a 2 Canoness, 3 BSS squads, an Imagifer, and 3x Ret squads with heavy bolters and a unit of Serpahim. This would give you 36-60 heavy bolter shots a turn, 5 command points, and Seraphim.
Hmm not really considered a pure foot list, that would be a nice number of bodies and antihorde fire power though less mobile. How would you use the seraphim, equip with inferno pistols and use the act of faith to charge up the table and suicide any targets not effectively screened? The imagifer worth it? I thought consensus was that it wasn't worth the points though I guess the chance of having two retributer squads double tapping makes it worthy of consideration.
It would be a bit more than 650 but I would take 10x Seraphim with dual Inferno Pistols. The imagifer did well for me at Michigan but your milage with it will vary.
ragnorack1 wrote: Might get in a bit trouble as I'm going to be asking a similar question in other tactics threads over the next couple of days.
I'm looking at changing up my current guard/dkok army into an inquisitorial task force of 1350 of guard and 650pt of sister, grey knights and deathwatch that can be swapped out to keep the army feeling fresh while having a cohesive theme for display.
Any suggestions of a good general purpose 650pts of sisters?
To keep the post short here's a brief overview of the 3 ideas I've had:
A patrol with celestine, melta seraphim and 2 squads of storm bolter equipped sisters in immolators.
Pros: nice mix of units for a mix of play styles
Cons: no cp, a living Saint seems out of place in an inquisition army but maybe I could come up with a suitable conversion/fluff reason.
A out rider detachment with a canoness, melta dominion squad in a repressor, 2 storm bolter dominions squads in immolators.
Pros: drive by repressor is an effective anti tank unit, visually fits theme of army better, scouting vehicles pair up well with my scouting grenadiers in centaurs.
Cons: little cp
A battalion of 2 canoness, 2 melta sister squads in repressors
1 storm bolter squad in an immolators
Pros: more cps (especially if I decide to field the ordo millant forces together and leave the guard at home), more anti tank
Cons: less mobile with out the scout move, only 1 immolator (I love these tanks)
Also interested in colour schemes, as the usual black and red is the same as inquisitorial storm troopers so might look a bit bland, not sure whether to change the guard element or use an alternative sisters scheme, I tend to prefer more subdued schemes looks a bit more realistic (as 40k can be :p) rather than the traditional guided pageantry.
Paint scheme wise, Please feel free to explore away from Order of Our Martyred Lady, there are 5 other major Orders or you could make your own.
Army composition wise, it depends on what you need. Saint Celestine supports any army that needs her, so that's fine either way. I'd probably be more inclined to take the Melta Outrider, the only trick would be having someone to use the AoF in the 1st turn. (Probably dropping the SB Doms.)
ragnorack1 wrote: Might get in a bit trouble as I'm going to be asking a similar question in other tactics threads over the next couple of days.
I'm looking at changing up my current guard/dkok army into an inquisitorial task force of 1350 of guard and 650pt of sister, grey knights and deathwatch that can be swapped out to keep the army feeling fresh while having a cohesive theme for display.
Any suggestions of a good general purpose 650pts of sisters?
To keep the post short here's a brief overview of the 3 ideas I've had:
A patrol with celestine, melta seraphim and 2 squads of storm bolter equipped sisters in immolators.
Pros: nice mix of units for a mix of play styles
Cons: no cp, a living Saint seems out of place in an inquisition army but maybe I could come up with a suitable conversion/fluff reason.
A out rider detachment with a canoness, melta dominion squad in a repressor, 2 storm bolter dominions squads in immolators.
Pros: drive by repressor is an effective anti tank unit, visually fits theme of army better, scouting vehicles pair up well with my scouting grenadiers in centaurs.
Cons: little cp
A battalion of 2 canoness, 2 melta sister squads in repressors
1 storm bolter squad in an immolators
Pros: more cps (especially if I decide to field the ordo millant forces together and leave the guard at home), more anti tank
Cons: less mobile with out the scout move, only 1 immolator (I love these tanks)
Also interested in colour schemes, as the usual black and red is the same as inquisitorial storm troopers so might look a bit bland, not sure whether to change the guard element or use an alternative sisters scheme, I tend to prefer more subdued schemes looks a bit more realistic (as 40k can be :p) rather than the traditional guided pageantry.
If want your guard army to be around 1350 pts (they are gunna be you screens, deployment objectives and do your ranged fire power I gather) the other 650 is prob better served with a punchy element that do pinpoint damage or are your close hitters, or forward objective grabbers. SoB are prob not the faction to be that (they can do it if you want to run and inquistion'esk army, but DW or even the GK are better I think for your army). You are looking for probably multiple deep striking elements that can f**k stuff up and be good on turn arrive if charge or not, while the rest of your army does the mainstream. DW I would suggest cause ammo, weapon choices and storm shields but GK with baby carriers, or other combo's could do as well with your soup. Both these armies can Deepstrike with pretty much everything (with command points) good with your 1350 support and can be average to good at everything (when deep strike).
If want to run sisters depends on your army atm (only 650 of sisters)? If your guard army is defensive (probably), you need some forward elements from your sisters. Celestine is a good choice (If you are a person who thinks she is in every battle, like ever) You could run a unit or 2 of Seraphim (they are average, espec with AoF but not that great) and a immolator to advance and shoot and drop later or repressor with a squad or 2 and advance and shoot all. However, if go repressor/immolator route, how much support does it have from your guard etc, do they move up as well? None except fire support? Can maybe be surrounded or cut off. If sisters are cut off how long do they last? Just with a small contingent of sisters what do you want their roll to be is probably a pertinent question?
If want your guard army to be around 1350 pts (they are gunna be you screens, deployment objectives and do your ranged fire power I gather) the other 650 is prob better served with a punchy element that do pinpoint damage or are your close hitters, or forward objective grabbers. SoB are prob not the faction to be that (they can do it if you want to run and inquistion'esk army, but DW or even the GK are better I think for your army). You are looking for probably multiple deep striking elements that can f**k stuff up and be good on turn arrive if charge or not, while the rest of your army does the mainstream. DW I would suggest cause ammo, weapon choices and storm shields but GK with baby carriers, or other combo's could do as well with your soup. Both these armies can Deepstrike with pretty much everything (with command points) good with your 1350 support and can be average to good at everything (when deep strike).
If want to run sisters depends on your army atm (only 650 of sisters)? If your guard army is defensive (probably), you need some forward elements from your sisters. Celestine is a good choice (If you are a person who thinks she is in every battle, like ever) You could run a unit or 2 of Seraphim (they are average, espec with AoF but not that great) and a immolator to advance and shoot and drop later or repressor with a squad or 2 and advance and shoot all. However, if go repressor/immolator route, how much support does it have from your guard etc, do they move up as well? None except fire support? Can maybe be surrounded or cut off. If sisters are cut off how long do they last? Just with a small contingent of sisters what do you want their roll to be is probably a pertinent question?
Cheers for the advice, hoping to make a detachment each of sisters, GK and DW (eventually) so that I can pick which to combine with my guard depending on what flavor of purging I feel like that day. The guard is very glass canon-y with 2 valks with DKOK engineers an officer and a priest, 3 small units of grenadiers with plasmas in centaurs and 3 10 man squads of engineers hanging back/ advancing to hold mid field later on in the game. Its a smaller chunk of a larger 2000pt force I have which I find fun to play, though it gets annihilated if there's little LOS blocking terrain but the mobility let's me get objectives early on and pick off any enemy units that get strung out.
The result of this is an aggressive sisters element wouldn't find itself unsupported up front, (the dominions in vehicles pair nicely with the centaur grenadiers, and my engineers in Valks should be able to reach anywhere celestine and the seraphim can first turn. Having a source of highly mobile melta does plug the anti-tank hole problem my army has (wish valks could still shoot 2 missiles a turn) trick is just finding the most effective way to squeeze it in with it being so expensive.
Hi everyone, as I am in preparing for a Tournament in my area.
This tournament has harsh restrictions when it comes to list-building.
I wanted to bring mono Sisters so following restrictions are in place:
- 3 Detatchments
- max. 5 of the same Troop-choice
- max. 2 of the same HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, Heavy Support or Flyer choice
- max. 5 of the same transport
- max. 1 FW unit over 300P
- no Fortifications
- min. 3 Troop-choices
Retributor Squad [6 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Retributor Squad [6 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
++ Total: [99 PL, 1749pts] ++
Dialogi would be driving in the Immolators with a SOB Unit,
1 Cannoness in the back with the HB Rets and the Exorzist.
Priest, Relic Cannoness and Celestine in the front for Buffs and melee.
My plan was to make the most of what the Sisters have and hope to trigger Martyrdom through the dialogi in the Fight phase.
And small question, when Celestine "dies" the first time but comes back, can I trigger Martyrdom?
would like to hear what you think.
Those are very harsh rules, especially for armies like SOB, Harlequins, and other swill little variety, not very far. But that is besides the point.
Knowing those rules and every army will follow them, you need to be careful for Squads, IG and Nids still can take 9+ of the same unit do to squads, its easy to have a full carnifex army, as its different named datasheets and each can have in units of 3, there is a total of 4 datasheets (and 1 HQ) for Carnifex, IG can basically do the same.
CWE/DE are still going to be a huge problem as they normally will take 1 of each good unit and still be highly effective.
Knowing those, I would keep your list the same (IMO i think MG's are one of the top 5 worst guns in the game, but i wont tell people to not bring them as they can do very good in Repressors and with AoF once out, SoB are one of the few armies they are consider good and when at lower points and limited slots they become even more appealing).
It really will come down to timing, movements, and target priority.
Is it ITC missions at all? or just GWbrb ones?
"And small question, when Celestine "dies" the first time but comes back, can I trigger Martyrdom? " No, b.c you have to remove the unit from the game, you need to do it after she dies the 2nd time.
I would take out the Priest as you are not doing much melee and 1 Dialgus for 1 more Imagifier or something else.
EDIT: I agree with Giant, remove the priest, i said so b.c no melee but i forget he doesnt have the Adepta Sororitas Keywords
Get rid of the priest. Having him there prevents you from using our stratagems and from the cannoness from taking the relic blade as well as makes the bss no longer have obsec. This is due to him not having the sororitas keyword and as such that battalion detachment defaults to being a ministorum detachment because that is the most common keyword they all share.
Hopefully this is something that is fixed in this years CA. Until then, no non-sororitas units in detachments at all if you want to have the shinies.
Unless youre hopelessly in love with the priest. Then pay the -1CP to put him in his own auxilliary detachment.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Get rid of the priest. Having him there prevents you from using our stratagems and from the cannoness from taking the relic blade as well as makes the bss no longer have obsec. This is due to him not having the sororitas keyword and as such that battalion detachment defaults to being a ministorum detachment because that is the most common keyword they all share.
Hopefully this is something that is fixed in this years CA. Until then, no non-sororitas units in detachments at all if you want to have the shinies.
Unless youre hopelessly in love with the priest. Then pay the -1CP to put him in his own auxilliary detachment.
Slight correction, its a bit complicated but you can take the relic... but lose access to the strategems if there is a priest there. You just need a character with the same faction as the Warlord for the relic and the priest doesn't block that. HOWEVER... they block access to the strats. It took me a few reads to see this as well after someone pointed it out to me!
Righto still a heavy hit to lose strats. Fortunately that spearhead detachment still has access so no problem.
What about the obsec? Does the priest cause that to be lost?
Also, this tourney is so rough for sisters. I feel for ya. Crikey, immediately cut out of brigade and double battalion detachments with that stupid limitation of troop.
Good luck and have fun though.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Righto still a heavy hit to lose strats. Fortunately that spearhead detachment still has access so no problem.
What about the obsec? Does the priest cause that to be lost?
Also, this tourney is so rough for sisters. I feel for ya. Crikey, immediately cut out of brigade and double battalion detachments with that stupid limitation of troop.
Good luck and have fun though.
Yeah, and the top armies like DE and CWE have 0 problems with this.... My DE would love these tournament rules i would win so easily.
This will be somewhat of a "Casual" tournament.
The Missions are kind of like the ITC but more Objektive focused.
its a bit altered but it is played by "Ars Bellica" rules, wich are like 5-6months old and German.
A rule i forgot was Units with the keywords "Vehicle", "Battlesuit" or "Monster" can not be taken in groups, if they are 62 points or more without Weapons and upgrades.
And if i would choose an ally i could only take 2 Detatchments, one of wich must be a Battalion.
That Ministorum units block access to Stratagems is a bummer, but one more Imagifier would also be good.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Yeah he still has them from the Spearhead, so no worries there. Whether the troops lose obsec is still to be answered. Im fairly certain they do.
Imagifier sounds better than priest. No real combat units in that list to benefit from priest. Plety of retributors thatd enjoy an imagifier though.
The easiest solution is to swap the Priest in the Batt with the Imagifier in the Spearhead, it doesn't need ObSec.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question of how much Value you'll get out of a Priest is another question though.
Exactly. Drop the priest and add another imagifier to the spearhead; then tou have 2 retributor squads with an imagifier each.
I just fail to see what benefit the priest adds aside from fluff.
You are right a out the swap though, that does solve the problem.
If want your guard army to be around 1350 pts (they are gunna be you screens, deployment objectives and do your ranged fire power I gather) the other 650 is prob better served with a punchy element that do pinpoint damage or are your close hitters, or forward objective grabbers. SoB are prob not the faction to be that (they can do it if you want to run and inquistion'esk army, but DW or even the GK are better I think for your army). You are looking for probably multiple deep striking elements that can f**k stuff up and be good on turn arrive if charge or not, while the rest of your army does the mainstream. DW I would suggest cause ammo, weapon choices and storm shields but GK with baby carriers, or other combo's could do as well with your soup. Both these armies can Deepstrike with pretty much everything (with command points) good with your 1350 support and can be average to good at everything (when deep strike).
If want to run sisters depends on your army atm (only 650 of sisters)? If your guard army is defensive (probably), you need some forward elements from your sisters. Celestine is a good choice (If you are a person who thinks she is in every battle, like ever) You could run a unit or 2 of Seraphim (they are average, espec with AoF but not that great) and a immolator to advance and shoot and drop later or repressor with a squad or 2 and advance and shoot all. However, if go repressor/immolator route, how much support does it have from your guard etc, do they move up as well? None except fire support? Can maybe be surrounded or cut off. If sisters are cut off how long do they last? Just with a small contingent of sisters what do you want their roll to be is probably a pertinent question?
Cheers for the advice, hoping to make a detachment each of sisters, GK and DW (eventually) so that I can pick which to combine with my guard depending on what flavor of purging I feel like that day. The guard is very glass canon-y with 2 valks with DKOK engineers an officer and a priest, 3 small units of grenadiers with plasmas in centaurs and 3 10 man squads of engineers hanging back/ advancing to hold mid field later on in the game. Its a smaller chunk of a larger 2000pt force I have which I find fun to play, though it gets annihilated if there's little LOS blocking terrain but the mobility let's me get objectives early on and pick off any enemy units that get strung out.
The result of this is an aggressive sisters element wouldn't find itself unsupported up front, (the dominions in vehicles pair nicely with the centaur grenadiers, and my engineers in Valks should be able to reach anywhere celestine and the seraphim can first turn. Having a source of highly mobile melta does plug the anti-tank hole problem my army has (wish valks could still shoot 2 missiles a turn) trick is just finding the most effective way to squeeze it in with it being so expensive.
I am opposite I play the specialists and sometimes get my old guard out etc. Example, from a fluff stand point I have armies from the 3 Inquisition factions (So GK, SOB, DW are my main play armies (I have a lot more but these are my non shelf sitters, I just find every other SM chapter boring and I have a lot.) Then a lot of Inquisition and some other imperium stuff, xenos from secondary sources (like when I bought Death Masque, I bought 3 or 4 boxes and ended up with a harlequin army and had to buy more cause played them and liked them etc). Or even more recent, I bought a few of the Tooth and claw (the Marines are for my DW) and ended up with a semi GSC army etc. (maybe more now...sigh)
It is hard to read your army atm, I would suggest laying your IG army out in a battle list format. Brackets of your perception of their role to be. And put at top what you want your sisters element to be (that way others might read it and comment). From a read, very fragile guard list, but fast moving. You almost are trying to do what sisters do but with less gumption. For your list you could try the opposite, a support based sisters list with a lot of Retributors etc and guard are the forward element. Or could:
This a copy and paste of my last 750pts army (was a narrative build up army but is last list I have for such small amount)
HQ
Celestine
Fast Attack
5x Dominion Squad: 2x Meltaguns, 1x Storm bolter, 1x Boltgun, Sup (Combi-melta & Power axe)
5x Dominion Squad: 2x Meltaguns, 2x Boltgun, Sup (Combi-melta & Power axe)
• Repressor: 2x Storm bolter, 1x Heavy flamer
Chapter approved 2017. Its not listed on their page but rather in the faction rules page (the page before their page). Short version = pure sororitas detachment gets obsec on its troops.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Exactly. Drop the priest and add another imagifier to the spearhead; then tou have 2 retributor squads with an imagifier each.
I just fail to see what benefit the priest adds aside from fluff.
You are right a out the swap though, that does solve the problem.
I can actually see a role for the Priest up front with the BSS, Relic Cannoness and Immolators. Depending on what's happening.
What do you guys think of the Penitent Engine?
They should be brought in an extra detatchment, but if they reach a target they can do some damge.
Are thy worth taking?
WhitelistedUserGX wrote: What do you guys think of the Penitent Engine?
They should be brought in an extra detatchment, but if they reach a target they can do some damge.
Are thy worth taking?
Thats the problem, they are very slow and easy to kill.
Ive only fielded them in 2 games due to being hesitant to field them from previous edition problems.
One game they died first turn before they even got a chance to move (only have 2 pengines).
Another game, they took out a repulsor, the aggressors inside it and another squad of aggressors before finally going down to that same squad due to nearby lieutenants stupid you can hit again before dying cuz my flag is flappy derp.
Theyre just too slow imo. Good for counter deepstrike assault. Cant keep up with the front line.
I think they are way too fragile for their points. They hit hard if they can get there but that usually takes 1-2 turns. They only have a 4+ and no built in invulnerable save which means most anti tank weapons are cutting right through them.
I ran them at the start of the edition and found that they just didn't get it done most of time.
As everyone else has said they are good if get there (just getting there is the problem). You have to run something that's more of a threat to give them a chance to get in, otherwise are blowin away like paper. Second thing against them is the models are a pain in the a**. You have to pin all the joints and then it is still fragile. The models look ok but is on my top hate model to put together (or more pertinent, keep together).
I have 8 of them. 5 built and painted, 2 unbuilt, and 1 a WP. Each one was a nightmare to build and painted. I would wait for plastic versions of them unless for some reason you really want to use then right now.
Rynner wrote: I have 8 of them. 5 built and painted, 2 unbuilt, and 1 a WP. Each one was a nightmare to build and painted. I would wait for plastic versions of them unless for some reason you really want to use then right now.
Ye I have 6 but I will never buy anymore or do any other again, like ever. Unless is released in plastic. Even if upgraded them to be more survivable but had to use that model. Pass, I could use something else.
EDIT: I did sell a lot of my old Sob, so I have put together more (the signature is my current, I had way more).
I am happy with the Bloody Rose rules as they are my convent of choice. Let's hope that Celestians can be loaded properly for close combat
I am looking forward to other convent rules. Once new models are out, I will absolutely buy them and just build a new convent to ally with my Bloody Roses
The OotBR chapter tactic is novel and fun, but I’m hoping there’ll be something decent on offer too.
That seraphim stratagem is just a joke though. I play Seraphim all the time. They didn’t necessarily need any love, but to give them that strat is almost more of a slap in the face than getting nothing.
You’ll drop turn two at the earliest, use the strat to let the two girls shoot their hand flamers (and a bunch of bolt pistols...) and then they’ll be out of range in the shooting phase anyway so the last sentence is moot.
Maybe if we kick up enough fuss about it they’ll give us something better for the codex (since they are allegedly listening to player feedback on this one). Really anything for seraphim would be better than that. A redeploy or faster move. A reroll hits/wounds against certain units strat. Or even if they’re trying to diversify things and encourage flamers and bolt pistols, add +1 to strength to the turn, or make them 12” range for the full turn not just the phase, so they can at least shoot them again in the shooting phase.
Goof to see convictions confirmed. OoBR seems like a bit of a stinker unless they give us a unit you actually want to get in to close combat. Getting the chance to hit like a SM a few times doesn't make much of a Bolter girl who still has T3. I'll wait and see, but unless something else changes I'll keep my Sisters out of close combat as much as possible.
Hand Flamer Strat buff.... Even if they were free I wouldn't take them.
I think the conviction is interesting on Seraphim because they generally wind up in hand to hand but that Stratagem is a joke. Every single time I've deep struck my Seraphim it's been the wrong play. They are far better starting off on the board and moving 24" a turn.
We will have to see what the full rules are before passing judgement as some units may change, but has it stands I quite like the Bloody Roses.
The Eviscerator Canoness just got that much more deadly. 5 attacks at str 7. She will be able to wound most vehicles on 4s now.
A squad of repentias, while still very fragile, is going to dish upwards of 30 attacks at str 7 on the charge now. Also made them much better at dealing with vehicles.
Your sister squads should still not be charging (unless absolutely necessary), but getting charged now means you're going to be that much more dangerous on the counter punch. Basic sisters get 2 attacks and your superior, if armed with a chainsword, gets 4 attacks.
Given how close range the sister army is, and subsequently how often they can get charged, I think its a decent offensive and defensive bonus.
The Bloody Rose special rule is pretty interesting. Sister really need some counter punch ability in close combat. They are far too vulnerable to it to my liking.
Voldrak wrote: We will have to see what the full rules are before passing judgement as some units may change, but has it stands I quite like the Bloody Roses.
The Eviscerator Canoness just got that much more deadly. 5 attacks at str 7. She will be able to wound most vehicles on 4s now.
A squad of repentias, while still very fragile, is going to dish upwards of 30 attacks at str 7 on the charge now. Also made them much better at dealing with vehicles.
Your sister squads should still not be charging (unless absolutely necessary), but getting charged now means you're going to be that much more dangerous on the counter punch. Basic sisters get 2 attacks and your superior, if armed with a chainsword, gets 4 attacks.
Given how close range the sister army is, and subsequently how often they can get charged, I think its a decent offensive and defensive bonus.
Arent multipliers done after bonuses? So theyd be S8? I thought i saw a FAQ on this somewhere...
I didn't notice the increase to attacks as well as strength. That makes it a bit more gutsy. Celestians would benefit nicely from this. Mix in a priest assuming he no different to the one in guard dex. 4 attacks. Very respectable.
Dammit, now i know how everyone else felt with their dex previews. Cruel strip tease. Show us all the goods GW!
Lammia wrote: Hmm... I actually like the stratagem. You want more bolt pistols than hand flamers though.
So you’d run the stratagem just to shoot your bolt pistols twice? Wait till turn two to deepstrike, drop in 9” away knowing you’re gonna get murdered next round, just so you can fire twice with a bunch of bolt pistols?? Not worth the points or the CP, surely.
Lammia wrote: Hmm... I actually like the stratagem. You want more bolt pistols than hand flamers though.
So you’d run the stratagem just to shoot your bolt pistols twice? Wait till turn two to deepstrike, drop in 9” away knowing you’re gonna get murdered next round, just so you can fire twice with a bunch of bolt pistols?? Not worth the points or the CP, surely.
Depends on what I'm shooting at and what the rest of the board is like. Shooting twice in a single turn is always going to be useful, even if Seraphim aren't the best use of the ability to do so.
Never mind Seraphim as we know them should be taking inferno pistols. I agree DS is a death sentence for them. Unless hand flamers get a huge buff, the strat is an auto pass for me.
Voldrak wrote: We will have to see what the full rules are before passing judgement as some units may change, but has it stands I quite like the Bloody Roses.
The Eviscerator Canoness just got that much more deadly. 5 attacks at str 7. She will be able to wound most vehicles on 4s now.
A squad of repentias, while still very fragile, is going to dish upwards of 30 attacks at str 7 on the charge now. Also made them much better at dealing with vehicles.
Your sister squads should still not be charging (unless absolutely necessary), but getting charged now means you're going to be that much more dangerous on the counter punch. Basic sisters get 2 attacks and your superior, if armed with a chainsword, gets 4 attacks.
Given how close range the sister army is, and subsequently how often they can get charged, I think its a decent offensive and defensive bonus.
Arent multipliers done after bonuses? So theyd be S8? I thought i saw a FAQ on this somewhere...
I didn't notice the increase to attacks as well as strength. That makes it a bit more gutsy. Celestians would benefit nicely from this. Mix in a priest assuming he no different to the one in guard dex. 4 attacks. Very respectable.
Dammit, now i know how everyone else felt with their dex previews. Cruel strip tease. Show us all the goods GW!
There we go, i found it. Its in the Designers Commentary on the GW website. Too many words for me to bother typing out manually but the basic gist is the characteristic stat is sorted out then weapon bonus applied.
Its actually the very first thing covered in it.
So all repentia and cannoness with their respective eviscerators using the Bloody Rose Conviction are stat strength 3 +1 from conviction and then x2 from the weapon.
Bloody Rose Repentia and Cannoness correctly S8. Tasty!
Loving the Order concepts thus far, as OotBR addresses the biggest problem with Sisters' melee elements: base strength 3.
Doesn't make Repentia viable, because they're still too expensive and too squishy with their required support characters and transport to ever achieve cost-efficiency. In order for Repentia to get off the couch, they're going to need either a stratagem that slingshots them, a significant points reduction, or to get increased defensive options.
It would, however, make Celestine and absolute f-ing monster: Strength 8, 7 attacks, with two girls that are strength 4, 4 attacks each on power swords. If Sisters get an Immediately Fight Again strat, she will be an auto-include in every Imperium list again.
It also makes it possible for Celestine to escape being double-deleted by a gauntlet grab.
Combine that with the effectiveness increase for Seraphim (making melee options a reasonable alternative to the bolt pistol, and having her be the one who throws the grenade in shooting phases), and the "core" of most allied-in Sisters lists (Celestine and three sets of Seraphim) gets a lot more competitive.
EDIT: we can ignore the stratagem, as you will never deepstrike Seraphim because inferno pistols don't have enough range to make it worthwhile. Even if you kitted out the squad in complete bolter pistols, it's still not worth deepstriking them*. If it could be used without the requirement of coming in from deepstrike, it'd be bananas though.
However, if we're being given the option to kit out Seraphim with power weapons and chainswords, or to give pairs of plasma pistols to the special weapon girls, then this stratagem gains a TON of traction.
EDIT2: I stopped and did the math. If you took 10 seraphim with bolt pistols and gave the superior a plasma pistol, it would actually be cost-effective enough to perform this manuever, as you'd get 38 bolter shots and 2 plasma shots out of a 115 point unit. Probably not worth taking over melta Seraphim, but definitely worth taking in a Seraphim spam list if rule of 3 wasn't a thing.
Lanlaorn wrote: Celestine doesn't have an Order right now and if she gains one in the codex it'll certainly be Our Martyred Lady as per the fluff.
Celestine can't be Order-locked, because the entire faction is currently dependent on her being present.
Introducing a Build-a-Saint (0-1) clone with her mechanics for other Orders would cause every SoB list to be an OML-Celestine detachment and a Build-a-Saint detachment.
Celestine not having the Order keyword would mean that she would disrupt Orders, unless she was specifically exclaimed like the entire Ministorum keyword will have to be.
Basically, messing with Celestine would mean rebuilding the faction from the ground up, and I just don't see a Chapter Approved having enough real estate to dedicate to that kind of an undertaking.
There are a handful of changes I'd expect to see in the beta rules:
All Sisters units which currently lack Order keyword getting it.
Exorcist getting either 3d3 shots with flat 3 damage; or 4d3 shots with d3 damage.
Penitent Engines getting Sororitas, Order, Shield of Faith and Acts of Faith keywords, a 3+ save, and Buzzblades getting reduced to 30 points.
Flamers across the board coming down in points (Hand Flamers free, Flamers 4 points, Heavy Flamers 11 or 12 points).
Eviscerators dropping to 9 points.
Multi-meltas dropping to 20 points.
Repentia dropping to 14 points per model, and getting Angelic Visage.
Mistress giving Repentia a 5+++ FnP bubble.
Adding a data sheet for Canoness Veridian.
Adding a data sheet for the boxing day fig as a named HQ.
Since most of those are point changes, I could see the beta codex data sheets for the changed units being six pages, then four pages for stratagems and two pages for warlord traits. Two pages for the Orders, and a couple pages for pictures and fluff, wrap the whole thing up in less than 20 pages.
Listen, I don't know what you're expecting, but just like the vast majority of Tau special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Tau sept and the majority of Space Marine special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Ultramarines, it wouldn't exactly be shocking if the best and only named Sisters character was Our Martyred Lady.
Space Marines and Ad Mech are a lot weaker without being UM for Guilliman or Mars for Cawl, why do you imagine Sisters would be different with regards to Celestine?
Anyway there's really nothing to be gained by wishlisting in the tactica thread.
Lanlaorn wrote: Listen, I don't know what you're expecting, but just like the vast majority of Tau special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Tau sept and the majority of Space Marine special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Ultramarines, it wouldn't exactly be shocking if the best and only named Sisters character was Our Martyred Lady.
Okay, Space Marines: they're split into multiple codexes, and those chapters were strictly worse than Ultramarines until their codexes released. The codexes added buffs to specific units which made them strictly superior versions of those units which are available to the other chapters (Smashcaps, DA Libs, Runepriests, etc.). This is not an option for Sisters of Battle, because all Orders will be using the same base units and there are no psychic powers, so the only mechanical change between the different Orders will be the Order trait itself and a single stratagem. Ergo, it will be similar to Ad Mech.
Lanlaorn wrote: Space Marines and Ad Mech are a lot weaker without being UM for Guilliman or Mars for Cawl, why do you imagine Sisters would be different with regards to Celestine?
Most competitive Ad Mech run Stygies, because the -1 to hit is mechanically superior to Cawl's additional Canticles.
Sisters faces a unique problem in that Celestine is the source of several things which are exclusive to her model:
She is the only source of a Kustom Force Field equivalent.
She is half of the faction's reliable sources of the faction mechanic.
She is the only redeployable unit.
on top of being the faction's best unit.
And most importantly: she is the most recent and only readily available model for the faction at the time Chapter Approved will release.
So any Stygies-like Order mechanic that comes via not-OML would have to be ridiculously OP to be able to compete with both the OML Order trait (whatever it ends up being), Celestine's several unique force multiplier mechanics, and the opportunity cost of not taking the faction's best unit. And then you'd still be able to force multiply them with Celestine by taking her in another detachment, which would end up making them OP whenever she's present, and end up being nerfed until unplayable when she isn't (aka- "the Ynnari paradox" with Shining Spears).
I just don't see that happening within the limited real estate of a Chapter Approved add-on, that is designed to drive interest towards a future product line.
Not very impressed by either of the reveals. The strat is bad, the order trait is worse. Basic Space Marines are garbage in melee, this turns Sisters into a T3 WS4+ space marine in melee. Maybe there are a couple niche units that could benefit from it but unless we see a radical change in stat lines it's not going to suddenly make sisters even a mediocre melee unit.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Celestine will not have an order and will be allowed to be included in any detachment and not deny order abilities, like aux units from codexes like DE and AM. That's assuming the fluff stays the same and she just appears in random battles to fight for the imperium.
It's also possible that "Celestine" just becomes "Living Saint" and could be in any order and you call her what you want.
She is half of the faction's reliable sources of the faction mechanic.
I'm going to give like 80% odds that faith goes away as a special mechanic and becomes a set of "Faith Stratagems". Various units, abilities, etc in sisters will generate "Faith CP" that can only be used on Faith Strats. There's some precedence for GW moving in this direction in Rogue Trader from Kill Team. If you take that RT woman as your Warlord in a 40k army you get 4 extra CP that can only be used on RT strats.
Edit: And personally I think that would be a very good way to go. It's still unique because you're powering them only through Sisters units and abilities and would enable a wide variety of faith powers instead of the couple generic ones. You could gain Faith CP for having certain models/units in your army, when units die, when characters kill stuff, when you kill a psyker, a die roll of X+ when you kill any chaos unit. There are tons of ways to give sisters a unique way of interacting with the proven and understood framework of Strats to create their faith mechanic. With a caveat that you can gain more than 1 faith per turn in matched play.
), but I spent ages converting the Sisters pilot into it and it's really fun to play. Can be either a great firepower distraction or chaff-deleter when ignored.
- a major downside to taking a unit of 10. Though the final two (with IPs) in cover soaked up a ludicrous amount of his T1 shooting.
pushed in.
still a heavy hit to lose strats. Fortunately that spearhead detachment still has access so no problem.
