Yes, we should all be embarrassed that someone, somewhere did something that doesn't conform to our private standards of quality and good taste.
Well, judging the size of this thread and the mixture of respondents, I think it is safe to say the general perception of these is that they are poor, cringe worthy, embarrassing and definitely of poor taste.
If you like 'em, knock yourself out. But don't be surprised if they garner negative attention.
How is your response in any way, shape or form relevant to my comment? Were you trying to respond to a different post or something?
I'm not actually sure this is meant to be taken all that seriously... the models look good from a technical point of view, a 'tad' unrealistic from an armour design point of view. Maybe they live on a world where the only threats are sunburn-less intense heat, dangerous foliage below the knee and branches at neck height.
Either way the board game looks... interesting... and the demonettes look good AFAICT.
Gitkikka wrote: If this isn't Prodos vaporware, I'm going to get it just to irritate people.
Hi there, product will be released, also now... there probably will be a PG13 version due 60+ emails I gone through this morning with a request to make this game more accessible for kids.
Surprisingly, retail is more interested in 18+ version.
I'm not sure it's exactly fair to assume anyone who likes this miniatures is the type of person who refuses to bath and is just generally repellent. People have many different tastes and reasons for liking certain things, and these will be no different(if they ever end up in people's hands anyway).
Unfair? Perhaps. But, to me, it's all too easy to imagine that scenario...
See, to me the problem is that's exactly the same thought process that gave us the "I'll buy this to spite all those stupid SJWs" scenario from this very thread: to them it's also all too easy to imagine.
I think most of those minis are kind of horrible (although some of the Chaos ones look cool, or would look really cool if they made alternate versions), but I can't (and won't) say anything against anyone that likes them.
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
You're wrong.
Extensive and eloquent enough for you?
You're also kind of cute. It's like watching a 16 year old discover how to cause a debate on the internet for attention for the first time. 'Let's see, if I misrepresent this, lump him in with him, and then apply a few offensive tags and genera;lisations, I can get people to react a certain way to me! That way, they're doing what I want, making me feel powerful!'
See, to me the problem is that's exactly the same thought process that gave us the "I'll buy this to spite all those stupid SJWs" scenario from this very thread: to them it's also all too easy to imagine.
Not really. My making generalisations differs in that I'm not doing it to draw attention to myself or in order to make myself appear "edgy" in a misguided attempt to make a point.
Hi there, product will be released, also now... there probably will be a PG13 version due 60+ emails I gone through this morning with a request to make this game more accessible for kids.
Surprisingly, retail is more interested in 18+ version.
Reaper Miniatures said that, while the "miniatures men like" were the most opposed in comments, they were still the miniatures which sold the most.
See, to me the problem is that's exactly the same thought process that gave us the "I'll buy this to spite all those stupid SJWs" scenario from this very thread: to them it's also all too easy to imagine.
Not really. My making generalisations differs in that I'm not doing it to draw attention to myself or in order to make myself appear "edgy" in a misguided attempt to make a point.
There is that, yes ^^. But still, the "it's too easy to imagine" line rubs me the wrong way, a bit, somehow.
I mean, they are sexy, but not that much far away from market standards for this kind of miniatures ... it's a product that is appealing to some customers, not WZR or AvP customers in general, thus for us as company it open up new avenues... in general, we wanted to place it between KD and TTG in terms of "sexiness".
As for the board game, I'll be showing demons soon as well with next SC update along with PG13 miniatures.
Thanks...resin in hand makes people feel alot better about ability to deliver. Not that anyone who has commented on this tread is gonna buy. But I'm sure lurkers are pleased to see them.
Yeah, there's some really good detail on the armour and bikes. Still don't like the anatomical proportions of the upper torso, and some of the poses are way too Ifinityesque, but they sure do look better than the painted/coloured versions.
You should really invest in a decent lighting setup for taking pictures of your products. Half your WZR stock doesn't have a single good image on the store.
Gitkikka wrote: If this isn't Prodos vaporware, I'm going to get it just to irritate people.
Hi there, product will be released, also now... there probably will be a PG13 version due 60+ emails I gone through this morning with a request to make this game more accessible for kids.
Surprisingly, retail is more interested in 18+ version.
Why is it surprising that everyone who isn't into stupid boob minis has already walked away while the people who are into stupid boob minis are asking for more boobage? That seems like the least surprising result possible.
Give one of them some half-assed cat ears and you'll probably hear from a lot of people who want more cat features. At this point, the only way forward is going to be full nip.
Unless you betray your artistic vision and fully armor those minis, of course.
Just a shame they aren't full armoured, because I'd love to have some bikes and not-terminators to flesh out my Sister army and use it as not-space marines some times!
Is it not easier to sculpt over a lack of armour than carve out to get at the flesh?
They may want to look at offering optional armour panels to stick on the standard models (or just offer both types). Making the panels cost-free would certainly make a lot of people's day.
Shandara wrote: Just a shame they aren't full armoured, because I'd love to have some bikes and not-terminators to flesh out my Sister army and use it as not-space marines some times!
This. The armour is actually excellently executed. Its more detailed than Marine armour and not in a 'throw on more detail' AOS way- in a way that makes it look like it would work if the servitors and serfs had just managed to attach those last few plates.
(Hilariously, they remind me of black and white art from Inquisitor- there's a woman in a black zip up catsuit with an armour plate around her shoulders and neck, giving her significant black latex underboob.)
The bolters look slimmer and more humanscale than the astartes bolters.
I'm not buying them just to greenstuff on my own armoured corset though, as I'd probably ruin the lines.
I don't know... I'm not for or against T&A on my models, but I know what I like... and in the case of the not-Marines on Bikes, I like them quite a lot.
I'm indifferent to the rest, but the bikes are pretty nice, and that resin pic makes me eager to buy a set or two to paint for my wife.
Shandara wrote: Just a shame they aren't full armoured, because I'd love to have some bikes and not-terminators to flesh out my Sister army and use it as not-space marines some times!
Someone else is in fact already making them - or, well, planning to make them.
I think someone else in this thread might have already linked to that someone else already too!
Shandara wrote: Just a shame they aren't full armoured, because I'd love to have some bikes and not-terminators to flesh out my Sister army and use it as not-space marines some times!
Someone else is in fact already making them - or, well, planning to make them.
I think someone else in this thread might have already linked to that someone else already too!
AegisGrimm wrote: One does wonder why they didn't sculpt chest and thigh armor, throw on backpacks, and make a bunch of money selling them as Sisters of Battle.
I definitely would have bought them.
Obviously they didn't want to step on GW's toes or infringe upon anyones IP
Because that's not the market they're going after? I'd be curious to know what their retail sales numbers are and who's buying them though.
Obviously that's their strange choice, but they want us to believe that the market for not-Sisters of Battle that are 100% cheesecake is larger than the market that would buy cool-looking fully-armored ones? Pfft.
One of the main lines for Onslaught Games is their 6mm not-Sisters of Battle, just with additional terminator armored troops so they can easily be fielded mechanically as Space Marine forces. 28mm versions of that would be so cool.
Plus I actually really like the Prodos armor, with the added filigree like Scibor uses.
I'm not sure I'm buying your assumption of a large volume of SoB players gnashing at the bit for models that havent already blown their budget on TGG2 models.
Skinnereal wrote: Is it not easier to sculpt over a lack of armour than carve out to get at the flesh?
They may want to look at offering optional armour panels to stick on the standard models (or just offer both types). Making the panels cost-free would certainly make a lot of people's day.
This is what I imagined as the best solution, too. Having attachable armor pieces would appeal to a broader audience, maybe. It would make for neat customization, too. Though I'm sure most of the people that are upset already aren't going to be wooed back.
I'm not sure I'm buying your assumption of a large volume of SoB players gnashing at the bit for models that havent already blown their budget on TGG2 models.
Maybe it's the optimist in me that wants desperately to believe that while it's not a large volume, it could still be bigger than the ones buying these "because of the artistically presented boobies", lol.
I actually think the core of a lot of these models is actually really good looking. Whoever did the armor has some real skill with that.
Skinnereal wrote: Is it not easier to sculpt over a lack of armour than carve out to get at the flesh?
They may want to look at offering optional armour panels to stick on the standard models (or just offer both types). Making the panels cost-free would certainly make a lot of people's day.
This is what I imagined as the best solution, too. Having attachable armor pieces would appeal to a broader audience, maybe. It would make for neat customization, too. Though I'm sure most of the people that are upset already aren't going to be wooed back.
Easier still to not bother with these models.
Which is my personal intention - Prodos has now removed themselves from the list of companies that i would wish to do business with.
And it is not prudishness - I have a fair number of Raging Heroes models to bear (bare?) witness.
skarsol wrote: Because that's not the market they're going after? I'd be curious to know what their retail sales numbers are and who's buying them though.
These aren't up for retail yet- they're just on preorder.
skarsol wrote: I'm not sure I'm buying your assumption of a large volume of SoB players gnashing at the bit for models that havent already blown their budget on TGG2 models.
skarsol wrote: Because that's not the market they're going after? I'd be curious to know what their retail sales numbers are and who's buying them though.
These aren't up for retail yet- they're just on preorder.
He stated they've gotten good numbers from their retail partners/distributors already.
skarsol wrote: Because that's not the market they're going after? I'd be curious to know what their retail sales numbers are and who's buying them though.
These aren't up for retail yet- they're just on preorder.
He stated they've gotten good numbers from their retail partners/distributors already.
Sales are better than WZR(preorders), while retail appears to be interested in the 16+ line.
Spoiler:
Warzone Resurrection wrote:Afternoon all, 5 pages already, wow that was quick.
So yes, we have taken a different approach for this product line, I understand that it may not be everybody cup of tea.
I wont really try to defend it as I don't want to get into any arguments about it. so to put it simply, the game is PG16, the models we have designed are not for every customer ( we know that). As for sales, sadly, SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.
Why this approach, well there is lack of this kind of miniatures on the market and we wanted to fill the gap.
Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Hi there, product will be released, also now... there probably will be a PG13 version due 60+ emails I gone through this morning with a request to make this game more accessible for kids.
Surprisingly, retail is more interested in 18+ version.
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
"Retail Newsletter Orders": is that retail orders, customer orders through a shop, or something else?
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
I guess it depends on whatever "retails newsletter orders" means.
Lockark wrote: It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(
Not to pile on, but it's probably best not to talk about sales figures when your shop uses live stocking. Your box set seems to have sold a mighty 5 boxes, so if it's selling "far better" than WRZ, and you think Warzone is doing well then you are far more easily pleased than I am
Bad form to quote yourself but it's kind of amusing that live stocking has disappeared from your website this morning. I'm sure that's just a coincidence
TheAuldGrump wrote: Well, I can say that this pushed me into making an order for Dream Forge figures... females in full armor - whoda thunk it?!
The Auld Grump
Are they back in stock?
No, and I just discovered that The War Store seems to think that they have been 'discontinued' instead of just out of stock - so they did not accept my back order. (For the record, they are out of stock, not discontinued - but I think that The War Store is going by Wargames Factory, not Dream Forge.)
The Auld Grump, grumble, grumble, gripe, gripe, gripe....
Right aim, GREAT concept, awesome adeia... And a execution who would have made GW proud (and this is not a cumpliment).
Serious Prodos?
Would that be so hard to make womans in practical armor?
IF we assume the "armours" are actually just a set of servo arms/legs, and those girls are actually some sort of "amazons in space", who love the female body and dont like to cover it (for sacred reasons, maybe), why botter to cover their nipples and groins?
Because there is a difference PG-13 vs Rated R in not only the movies but in how games are marketed, bought and sold (varies depending on country/state laws). It is why Kingdom Death, other than the high price point, tends to be behind the counter or only having the name shown on the shelf.
Because there is a difference PG-13 vs Rated R in not only the movies but in how games are marketed, bought and sold (varies depending on country/state laws). It is why Kingdom Death, other than the high price point, tends to be behind the counter or only having the name shown on the shelf.
Got it, i was kinda of making a joke...
BUT actually, putting the "moralism" aside: those girls are not wearing armor, just servo-arms/legs (in the case of the big armors, at least), with buit in "personal shield generators" at the back pack, which make the whole ideia of "cover myself in bulky sheets of plate" a nonsense. The lack of clothes is just a preference of the warriors themselves. Maybe with cultural roots? As someone pointed out, that smooth skin may be just a tight cloth (you know, real womans rarelly have skin so perfect).
Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
I wonder those that are the biggest opponents are the ones that throw money at the pole dancers?
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
I guess it depends on whatever "retails newsletter orders" means.
Lockark wrote: It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(
Not to pile on, but it's probably best not to talk about sales figures when your shop uses live stocking. Your box set seems to have sold a mighty 5 boxes, so if it's selling "far better" than WRZ, and you think Warzone is doing well then you are far more easily pleased than I am
Bad form to quote yourself but it's kind of amusing that live stocking has disappeared from your website this morning. I'm sure that's just a coincidence
I think it means 'If we pretend it's selling well, we may get other people to pile on the imaginary bandwagon'
When you remove a function of your own webshop just to avoid contradicting your own story then I think it's a little past 'pinch of salt' time.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
I don't think you were paying attention, then, because Vinnie's more 'exploitative' stuff has certainly copped its fair share of flak, and Raging Heroes likewise took a lot of criticism over the exagerated proportions of their females. Hasslfree tends to get a pass from most people as Kev's stuff tends to stick to more realistic proportions.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
Because going out of your way to deliberately annoy people is clearly the best way for everyone to enjoy their hobby time, no?
Alternatively, you could try actually reading the thread, at which point you might notice that most of the complaints about these minis have nothing whatsoever to do with 'social justice' ...
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
I don't think you were paying attention, then, because Vinnie's more 'exploitative' stuff has certainly copped its fair share of flak, and Raging Heroes likewise took a lot of criticism over the exagerated proportions of their females. Hasslfree tends to get a pass from most people as Kev's stuff tends to stick to more realistic proportions.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
Because going out of your way to deliberately annoy people is clearly the best way for everyone to enjoy their hobby time, no?
Alternatively, you could try actually reading the thread, at which point you might notice that most of the complaints about these minis have nothing whatsoever to do with 'social justice' ...
Don't they? a few years back people would say, too campy for me, but now we already have already 10 pages of people who gak over it, the sculpts aren't worse than other kick starters i have seen, i am just saying that people are over reacting, like you are over reacting to my post, if people are head over heals in this thread what will happen if i would field them?
And yes IMHOPC and SJW's have changed the landscape, everyone is so quickly offended these days, or maybe i am just an insensitive prick.
But i have seen the strange reactions to my Hello Kitty army and there were no boobs there, so i have to change my army or make disclaimers to not offend other people?
Jehan-reznor wrote: Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
I wonder those that are the biggest opponents are the ones that throw money at the pole dancers?
I am definitely no social justice warrior, I can rant about that for hours and don't get me started on "cosplay is not consent". I also have had no issue with strippers, haven't gone to a club in many, many years but actually have a few friends that did that. They used to joke that Portland Oregon has most strip clubs and adult stores per capita than anywhere in the US. I believe Houstan is 1st place then Portland, Los Angeles, New York and Las Vegas.
BUT actually, putting the "moralism" aside: those girls are not wearing armor, just servo-arms/legs (in the case of the big armors, at least), with built in "personal shield generators" at the back pack, which make the whole idea of "cover myself in bulky sheets of plate" a nonsense. The lack of clothes is just a preference of the warriors themselves. Maybe with cultural roots? As someone pointed out, that smooth skin may be just a tight cloth (you know, real woman's rarely have skin so perfect).
In that case I apologize, always hard to tell when there isn't an emoticon. ^_^
For some background I collect Kingdom Death, although a good portion of their models are over the top for me. That is my personal preference though, I don't expect others to have the same tastes. I also have backed and have a lot of Raging Heroes miniatures. I don't have an issue with Brother Vinni's although I believe some of the sculpts are just bad design, but again that is my personal preference. I'm all for cheesecake and I have a fairly good collection of resin garage kits to back that up.
I'm actually ok with the whole suspense of reality that they are using "personal shield generators" so they don't need armor. They want to be comfortable, move freely and most every female will tell that once they get home, off work and not out the first thing they do is remove their bra (because it is uncomfortable). In half seriousness and joking manner I used to say the reason they don't need to support and they are perfect is because they are genetically engineered and utilize gravity node for support.
I can't suspend belief though with jet packs (that generate no heat, anti-grav maybe?) being worn by someone with no protection. How good is the shield if it covering her but not her equipment. The bikes are about 50/50, guess it depends on how the shields work. I like some of the sculpts but a good portion I honestly think are poor design period. The paint job doesn't help much either in my opinion although I couldn't tell you why.
I'll go to Anime as example. I love my fan service but there are times when I think it goes over the top. For example I really liked the story behind Freezing and Cross Ange, was ok with some of the more mature moments but the constant clothes ripping off and naked bodies completely detracted from the story. There would be an awesome fight scene or some deep emotional moment and then no clothes destroyed during battle. At first it was funny, after episode 1 it gets really old quickly. The story, artwork and mecha designs were great though but probably will vanish into obscurity.
Want to go cheesecake and say they are shield and antigrav generators then I have no problem with that. However I do question why do we need a really big shield? Why do we need really big shoulder pads? Why do we need a loin cloth, isn't that going to get in the way of movement (I've never understood tabards personally in a scifi setting)? How is she being held in that powersuit, because those straps won't do it, are they there in addition to clamps bolted to a metal spinal column (allah Starcraft style)? Does the forcefield only stop projectile weapons and not melee weapons, does it stop acid or liquid and if it does, how does air get through? Those are my issues with the sculpts. For me the T&A aren't the issue, the designs just seem bad to me.
In Kingdom Death defense, despite it being over the top, boutiquish it is a fantasy horror game. They start with no clothes, have to hunt, gather and create their own clothes. It makes a bit more sense they can only make some things, other things end up better and end game they are full armor sets. So if some curvy demon wants to have a dress of male parts and tongues then that fits just fine, although I did prefer the People of the Sun miniatures they did. I actually want to get Satan at some point but not ready to answer questions from my son and daughter on that yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jehan-reznor wrote: But i have seen the strange reactions to my Hello Kitty army and there were no boobs there, so i have to change my army or make disclaimers to not offend other people?
For the record I love your Hello Kitty army and told my daughter if she wants to get into gaming I'd make her army like that (and showed her pics of your army), which she completely loved. ^_^
I believe this discussion has gotten a lot of posts because it covers a lot of ground in difference of opinion. There are people that genuinely don't like the sculpts, just think they are bad, not because of T&A. There are people that are going "OMG sexism". There are people who are social justice warrior. There are people who are just plain against SJW so will buy to spite. There are trolls. There are people who aren't unhappy with Prodos.
I've missed a few groups, but there is more to the discussion and many groups of opinions because of it. It isn't just T&A vs No T&A objections. Where if they were just Raging Heroes style, you'd have less voices from each camp. You'd definitely have a lot less from the 'bad sculpt' camp because WH40K is the genre it fits with. You might have some people that would just say, not my style good luck. Unfortunately when things start getting labeled SJW then things spiral out because there are rarely decent discussions on opinions... just a lot of people talking. That isn't completely what this thread is, but there is some mixed in plus the other normal dislikes.
Jehan-reznor wrote: ... the sculpts aren't worse than other kick starters i have seen,
I think that depends on the criteria that they're being graded on. We've certainly seen less competently-sculpted miniatures. I've only seen a couple that were sillier concepts. And that's where my dislike for them comes from... they're so close to being something that I would like to buy... The armour styling is nice, the sculpting is competent... if they had remembered to put on the rest of their armour, they would have been a happy purchase for me.
I suspect that a part of the reason these have received the reaction that they have is that people think of Prodos as a bigger company than they actually are due to the Warzone connection, and so expect a certain standard from them that these just don't match. Miniatures that wouldn't be surprising (if no better liked) from a small start-up will meet with a considerably worse reaction when they come from a company that people think should know better.
i am just saying that people are over reacting, like you are over reacting to my post, if people are head over heals in this thread what will happen if i would field them?
I suspect that you're imbuing people's posts with a lot more frothing rage than is actually present.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote: Right aim, GREAT concept, awesome adeia... And a execution who would have made GW proud (and this is not a cumpliment).
Serious Prodos?
Would that be so hard to make womans in practical armor?
IF we assume the "armours" are actually just a set of servo arms/legs, and those girls are actually some sort of "amazons in space", who love the female body and dont like to cover it (for sacred reasons, maybe), why botter to cover their nipples and groins?
That was honestly my thought as well. I mean, they clearly aren't for me or anyone who wants practical gear, so why bother pretending these aren't just spank fodder. Just make them completely nude, spread legs, guns that work by blowing them, the works. Own it and double down I say.
I do think the resins look better than the painted versions. Maybe something to do with the highlights.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
I don't think you were paying attention, then, because Vinnie's more 'exploitative' stuff has certainly copped its fair share of flak, and Raging Heroes likewise took a lot of criticism over the exagerated proportions of their females. Hasslfree tends to get a pass from most people as Kev's stuff tends to stick to more realistic proportions.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
Because going out of your way to deliberately annoy people is clearly the best way for everyone to enjoy their hobby time, no?
Alternatively, you could try actually reading the thread, at which point you might notice that most of the complaints about these minis have nothing whatsoever to do with 'social justice' ...
Don't they? a few years back people would say, too campy for me, but now we already have already 10 pages of people who gak over it, the sculpts aren't worse than other kick starters i have seen, i am just saying that people are over reacting, like you are over reacting to my post, if people are head over heals in this thread what will happen if i would field them?
And yes IMHOPC and SJW's have changed the landscape, everyone is so quickly offended these days, or maybe i am just an insensitive prick.
But i have seen the strange reactions to my Hello Kitty army and there were no boobs there, so i have to change my army or make disclaimers to not offend other people?
If anyone does pre-order this stuff, care to let us know when it actually turns up? Be a useful indicator for me of Prodos getting their ass into gear or not.
I heartily encourage everyone in this thread who are just buying this 'to offend SJW's' to absolutely do so, in fact buy multiple sets, immediately. Hell max out that credit card!
I'm pretty certain the amusement of knowing that you guys have spent actual money on this drek to make the world's lamest point definitely helps wash away the bad taste
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
I don't think you were paying attention, then, because Vinnie's more 'exploitative' stuff has certainly copped its fair share of flak, and Raging Heroes likewise took a lot of criticism over the exagerated proportions of their females. Hasslfree tends to get a pass from most people as Kev's stuff tends to stick to more realistic proportions.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
Because going out of your way to deliberately annoy people is clearly the best way for everyone to enjoy their hobby time, no?
Alternatively, you could try actually reading the thread, at which point you might notice that most of the complaints about these minis have nothing whatsoever to do with 'social justice' ...
Don't they? a few years back people would say, too campy for me, but now we already have already 10 pages of people who gak over it, the sculpts aren't worse than other kick starters i have seen, i am just saying that people are over reacting, like you are over reacting to my post, if people are head over heals in this thread what will happen if i would field them?
And yes IMHOPC and SJW's have changed the landscape, everyone is so quickly offended these days, or maybe i am just an insensitive prick.
But i have seen the strange reactions to my Hello Kitty army and there were no boobs there, so i have to change my army or make disclaimers to not offend other people?
You're actually the only one offended.
This post offend me
I am not, i just don't understand why people go on a tangent to let other people know that they don't like it and that other people also shouldn't like it.
I know it is in bad taste but there is a market for it.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
I wonder those that are the biggest opponents are the ones that throw money at the pole dancers?
What is everyone's problem with single Jewish females?
Artemis Black wrote: I heartily encourage everyone in this thread who are just buying this 'to offend SJW's' to absolutely do so, in fact buy multiple sets, immediately. Hell max out that credit card!
I'm pretty certain the amusement of knowing that you guys have spent actual money on this drek to make the world's lamest point definitely helps wash away the bad taste
Theoretically it will also give Prodos some money to ship AvP pledges Everyone's a winner!
Artemis Black wrote: I heartily encourage everyone in this thread who are just buying this 'to offend SJW's' to absolutely do so, in fact buy multiple sets, immediately. Hell max out that credit card!
I'm pretty certain the amusement of knowing that you guys have spent actual money on this drek to make the world's lamest point definitely helps wash away the bad taste
Theoretically it will also give Prodos some money to ship AvP pledges Everyone's a winner!
Everyone except Alien Justice Workers, they've been fighting the man, and trying to bring to life the injustice wrought upon the poor alien species who are just trying to survive in a universe filled with gun totting humans, especially the half naked chicks with awkward tits
Jehan-reznor wrote: I am not, i just don't understand why people go on a tangent to let other people know that they don't like it and that other people also shouldn't like it.
I know it is in bad taste but there is a market for it.
I asked this before but I'll ask it again: is there any point at which criticism of a product is appropriate? Or are we obligated to never criticize anything that other people might decide to buy, no matter how tasteless or offensive or lacking in quality it might be?
PS: I expect you to be consistent about your outrage over criticism. I'd better not see you criticizing a new GW release because there's clearly a market for it and you don't need to let everyone know how you don't like it.
Sectiplave wrote: If anyone does pre-order this stuff, care to let us know when it actually turns up? Be a useful indicator for me of Prodos getting their ass into gear or not.
Look again at the pictures. The ass is definitely not in the gear.
I'm actually morw outraged by the fact that they are not only blatantly ripping off GW, they are also calling it freaking Space Crusade to be uber-blatant and unoriginal!
Seriously, the conscious act to stick to "boobies" as the consistent theme rather than just on some of the figures is the single original idea in this game so far. I'm surprised it doesn't take place on Space Hulk-style tiles with a backstory about the ladies being the holy warriors of an Emperor of Humanity just to round out having everything40K-themed.
And yes IMHOPC and SJW's have changed the landscape, everyone is so quickly offended these days, or maybe i am just an insensitive prick.
But i have seen the strange reactions to my Hello Kitty army and there were no boobs there, so i have to change my army or make disclaimers to not offend other people?
Obviously you don't get it, so I'll spell it out for you so you can stop making stuff up to suit your naritive.
It's not SJW or PC, so knock it off. I'm tired of people trying to get me to buy their products by putting in Clan Bikini. It's been done so many times that it's just eye-ball rolling at this point, and it's tiring that people think that's the best way to bring in The Moneys. Better sculpts, better themes will bring in The Moneys, but that takes work, and this is just lazy.
Wow. I don't understand the design of this armor at all. You have to carry all that weight without having any protection of the vitals. It's the worst of both worlds really. Like that Dreadnought looking thing. Why have all that heavy armor plating when you're just going to hang out of it half naked? All it'd take is a stray bullet to take down that walking tank.
(I am of course being obtuse on purpose. I know the purpose of these models and, frankly, it's silly cheesecake for the sake of being cheesecake)
I think I've figured it out! Prodoss hasn't delivered AVP yet because they spent all their money on cocaine! Because Hunter S. Thompson levels of drug use are the only fething way to think this is a good idea.
TheCustomLime wrote: Wow. I don't understand the design of this armor at all. You have to carry all that weight without having any protection of the vitals. It's the worst of both worlds really. Like that Dreadnought looking thing. Why have all that heavy armor plating when you're just going to hang out of it half naked? All it'd take is a stray bullet to take down that walking tank.
That was my thought as well. I mean, there's probably a hundred pounds of armor up there, and no connection to the lower half of the suit that bears all the weight. You could probably kill them by gently pushing on the top bit and watching their spines snap.
Laughing Man wrote: That was my thought as well. I mean, there's probably a hundred pounds of armor up there, and no connection to the lower half of the suit that bears all the weight. You could probably kill them by gently pushing on the top bit and watching their spines snap.
Genetically engineered test tube babies grown in a vat with the best traits and stats. Their spine is reinforced alloy with adamantium like Wolverine and the armor is grafted into injection ports, utilizing a mini antigravity device.
I like these miniatures and if I played 40k....I might even buy some to mix in to a Army to make it different looking. But all I play and buy is bloodbowl stuff so I wont.
I'm all about defending them and fighting the fight and etc etc blah blah blah ....
However..
Even I found it funny that not only do they have under boob...they ALSO have a boob window. Thats dedication to the cause.
Second. Painting the skin a glossy black like its a undersuit sounds like a really good idea and would look cool I think.
Jehan-reznor wrote: I am not, i just don't understand why people go on a tangent to let other people know that they don't like it and that other people also shouldn't like it.
I know it is in bad taste but there is a market for it.
I asked this before but I'll ask it again: is there any point at which criticism of a product is appropriate? Or are we obligated to never criticize anything that other people might decide to buy, no matter how tasteless or offensive or lacking in quality it might be?
PS: I expect you to be consistent about your outrage over criticism. I'd better not see you criticizing a new GW release because there's clearly a market for it and you don't need to let everyone know how you don't like it.
Do you understand tangent? Some people seem that it is their task to show other people that if they think it is wrong, everybody should think it is wrong.
I can criticize anything i want, i just not go pages on about it, so if it is not PC and not SJW, then Boobie armor is okay and we can talk just about the sculpt quality
Kid_Kyoto
What is everyone's problem with single Jewish females?
Laughing Man wrote: That was my thought as well. I mean, there's probably a hundred pounds of armor up there, and no connection to the lower half of the suit that bears all the weight. You could probably kill them by gently pushing on the top bit and watching their spines snap.
Genetically engineered test tube babies grown in a vat with the best traits and stats. Their spine is reinforced alloy with adamantium like Wolverine and the armor is grafted into injection ports, utilizing a mini antigravity device.
And yet they still give them shoddy and ineffective armor.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Do you understand tangent? Some people seem that it is their task to show other people that if they think it is wrong, everybody should think it is wrong.
I can criticize anything i want, i just not go pages on about it, so if it is not PC and not SJW, then Boobie armor is okay and we can talk just about the sculpt quality
I see, so what you're really saying here is "disagreeing with me is a tangent and needs to be stopped, we can only talk about what I want to talk about". Sorry, but no, it's a discussion forum. If you don't like seeing people criticize the existence of models like this then you're free to leave the thread.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Do you understand tangent? Some people seem that it is their task to show other people that if they think it is wrong, everybody should think it is wrong.
I can criticize anything i want, i just not go pages on about it, so if it is not PC and not SJW, then Boobie armor is okay and we can talk just about the sculpt quality
I see, so what you're really saying here is "disagreeing with me is a tangent and needs to be stopped, we can only talk about what I want to talk about". Sorry, but no, it's a discussion forum. If you don't like seeing people criticize the existence of models like this then you're free to leave the thread.
That is not what i said, I forgot you are the one who said that he is always right.
You won the internet fight have a cookie
rayphoton wrote: I like these miniatures and if I played 40k....I might even buy some to mix in to a Army to make it different looking. But all I play and buy is bloodbowl stuff so I wont.
I'm all about defending them and fighting the fight and etc etc blah blah blah ....
However..
Even I found it funny that not only do they have under boob...they ALSO have a boob window. Thats dedication to the cause.
Second. Painting the skin a glossy black like its a undersuit sounds like a really good idea and would look cool I think.
Excuse my super quick photo shopping
These would make for some cool Agents of the Imperium like Inquisitors, acolytes, assassins etc.
Jehan-reznor wrote: That is not what i said, I forgot you are the one who said that he is always right.
No, that's exactly what you said. You said that it's ok to criticize sculpt quality, but not any of that "SJW" stuff. IOW, only criticism that you approve of is allowed.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
I wonder those that are the biggest opponents are the ones that throw money at the pole dancers?
What is everyone's problem with single Jewish females?
Jehan-reznor wrote: Wow i never would have thought that the SJW's would have reached dakkadakka in droves. I never seen this outrage on Brother Vinnie's, Raging heroes stuff or Hasslefree miniatures.
Now i will certainly have to get them just to see SJW's foaming at the gaming table.
I'm one of the biggest anti-SJW types you'll find at this place (there's no 'justice' in what those lunatics cry out for, they are nothing but racist, sexist, misandrist, left-wing authoritarians who desire nothing more than to stifle any form of expression that doesn't fit within their narrow world-view, but I digress...), but come. The. feth. On.
These minis are atrocious (for the most part, I actually like the not-Dread, reminds me of Tiamat, and some of the bikes are cool), but these are just silly minis. People in full not-Terminator armour except for their front's missing to show off a bikini? You don't have to be a white-male-hating-twitter-shaming-SJW to see that that's the very definition of gratuitous.
Those miniatures are butt-ugly. I know nice tits can upgrade of almost anything for some guys but seriously, this is 2016!
If I want to look at queer, badly sculpted sexualized miniatures, I go to Excalibur Miniatures, thank you very much.
In technical terms it's a High Elf, so no, it isn't!
Also still not a man, dammit! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
H.B.M.C. wrote: they are nothing but racist, sexist, misandrist, left-wing authoritarians who desire nothing more than to stifle any form of expression that doesn't fit within their narrow world-view
There is a very deep irony in this. Specifically, do you usually get offended when others get offended?
Actually, don't answer that. I can feel the judging eyes watching this topic closely, waiting to strike.
rayphoton wrote: I like these miniatures and if I played 40k....I might even buy some to mix in to a Army to make it different looking. But all I play and buy is bloodbowl stuff so I wont.
I'm all about defending them and fighting the fight and etc etc blah blah blah ....
However..
Even I found it funny that not only do they have under boob...they ALSO have a boob window. Thats dedication to the cause.
Second. Painting the skin a glossy black like its a undersuit sounds like a really good idea and would look cool I think.
Excuse my super quick photo shopping
That looks great. It would still bother me that the top half of the armour is not connected to the greaves.
I'd have to sculpt armour lips on the hips to show that 'dem thighs' are actually armour plates and tubetool up some armoured cables to connect and support the 'breastplate'- which could use an under layer to cover the rest of the vitals.
At that point though it would feel like i'd been sculpting too much.
If Prodos can provide me with re-sculpts that make sense as power-armoured sexy girls rather than 'sexy marine' halloween costumes, I'll definitely pick some up.
For the record I am 100% on board with sexy, tits out, cheesecake daemonettes. A good succubus knows that on the battlefield you don't have time to slowly seduce that guardsman, you'll be at full sprint/dance speed when you break from cover and if you're not jiggling hard enough you'll be eating high energy lasbolts.
For the record I am 100% on board with sexy, tits out, cheesecake daemonettes. A good succubus knows that on the battlefield you don't have time to slowly seduce that guardsman, you'll be at full sprint/dance speed when you break from cover and if you're not jiggling hard enough you'll be eating high energy lasbolts.
[EDIT]: Ah, you're weren't actually making a point. You were just attacking me. Well done.
Assuming you want to interpret me pointing out that those you accuse of various things are actually not so bad as an 'attack', then I guess you can conclude that I did both.
In essence....well, you know how the Internet attracts people who want to win arguments without the bother of actually arguing? And how they'll use bad logic and rhetoric to try and shut the opponent down as quickly as possible? The stereotypical SJW does that, just using accusations of sexism, racism and other forms of bigotry to give their arguments a veneer of unassailable righteousness; if you disagree with them, you're not just disagreeing with them or even wrong, you're a terrible person who needs to be shamed.
In short, they're people who don't get that no matter how righteous the cause is, you can still argue it badly. And communities where they are dominant can start to feel stifled in a different but comparable way to ones where sexist or homophobic jokes are routinely thrown around.
Of course, some people who actually are bigoted or painfully insensitive to the feelings of others, and who hide behind "Hey, I'm not politically correct!" like to turn SJW's into a grand left-wing conspiracy dedicated to stifling freedom of speech. Any expression of distaste or offence, no matter how unsavoury the thing you're reacting to actually is, makes you into a dirty SJW who can't take a joke, can't stand the sight of a woman's body, etc.
Guys, please, let's take that entire realm of who is and who isn't a SJW elsewhere? In order to save yourselves from the Wrath of Mod, if nothing else.
I simply don't understand why it would be important to protect your shoulders and legs, but not your internal organs and ribcage. You can live without one of those things, and it's not the one with total lack of armor.
Poor show, Prodos. You had a chance to do something cool, inventive and alternative, and you decided to go for "easy" market of T&A.
Then seemingly neglecting to hire anyone who understood how physics functions around heavy sacks of flesh.
Except the not-Nurgle seems to be flopping around realistically, so I have no idea why all the not-sisters have helium tits rather than the pleasant curve of a weighted breast going on.
I think that's what is sparking so much annoyance with everyone. Prodos came really close to making badass female power armored troops. The basic ideas behind the sculpts are very nice. But then they decided to go full cheesecake and ruin what could have been something very nice.
Buttery Commissar wrote: I have no idea why all the not-sisters have helium tits rather than the pleasant curve of a weighted breast going on.
It because Prodos is going for a sexy look. They said it themselves. Obviously weird thighs, hips, pelvis and helium tits are part of that. (On the Space Crusaders - Not demons have more realistic pillows).
(Wondering how this can now be construed as a SJW comment)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheCustomLime wrote: I think that's what is sparking so much annoyance with everyone. Prodos came really close to making badass female power armored troops. The basic ideas behind the sculpts are very nice. But then they decided to go full cheesecake and ruin what could have been something very nice.
These aren't so much cheesecake as rancid cottage cheese.
I hope they sell enough of the demons though to ensure KS pldeges from way back are fulfilled in their entirety.
This game is magnificent, in the absurd, shameless, laughable kind of magnificent. I actually really like that Nurgul (Or, sorry, "generic plague demon") creature, but the rest is just brilliantly cringe worthy. Loving it.
NoPoet wrote: The more I see of sci-fi women who go into battle with no clothes on, the more I appreciate that I can get a girlfriend, and that I know real women.
To be fair, you have to assume that they're trained in fighitng with their bodies displayed, but shoulders/legs heavily armoured.
Then seemingly neglecting to hire anyone who understood how physics functions around heavy sacks of flesh.
Except the not-Nurgle seems to be flopping around realistically, so I have no idea why all the not-sisters have helium tits rather than the pleasant curve of a weighted breast going on.
The physics and anatomy of breast seems to often escape sculptors. In this case it looks like they have used bad breast enlargements as their anatomy guide. But maybe it is because internet porn is cheaper than an actual book on anatomy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And to why this has gotten a lot of flak and others haven't? I don't even know if that is actually the case. In my case it was mostly because I clicked on this thread. Brother Vinni do some of the worst sexist crap (case in point: ukrainian slavegirl). Knowing this I do not even bother with those threads.
Hasselfree sure do some things that might be catagorised as cheesecake, but they also do all kinds of women of all shapes and almost always with agency. This makes a huge difference. Because you know, nudity per se is not the problem.
And it is hilarious that someone actually pulls the freedom of expression card. The straw men are strong in this thread.
Ironic that Jehan lives in the one country where these minis could be on every game table and no one would bat an eye. Heck in 2004, you could still buy used school girl panties from vending machines outside of 7-11 in Kita-Kyushu...
@Jorny, required breast enlargement would explain why they're all roughly the same size.
It was fun 30+ years ago in Conan comics and in the occasional fantasy early female miniature in the 80s and 90s.
But half-naked woman in armour always were and will be nonsense.
In regard to Prodos: I want the AvP Predators. But i after 2 years i am still waiting for those.
Warzone has good models, these Space Crusade are just uninspired work (or inspired by another organ than the brain ;-)
Buttery Commissar wrote: I simply don't understand why it would be important to protect your shoulders and legs, but not your internal organs and ribcage. You can live without one of those things, and it's not the one with total lack of armor.
There is a tiny bit of sense in the arms/shoulder. Not for armor, but for some sort of strength enhancement. To boost your effective strength, you need to anchor against something. Just having a powered glove is not going to help you lift things. But both arms connected to a shoulder rig gets your back muscles into play, and distributes the load. You could also push/pull things together in front of you, as most of the lateral forces could be taken up by the rig.
Now once you move away from the “armor” you are limited by the fleshy parts. So by not being connected to the hips/legs, you loose a lot of the potential.
Just armoring your lower legs is going to keep the snakes off your ankles, but not much more.
Buttery Commissar wrote: I have no idea why all the not-sisters have helium tits rather than the pleasant curve of a weighted breast going on.
Anti-gravity pasties, of course.
Or if you prefer, anti-graviteets.
EDIT:
TheCustomLime wrote: Like that Dreadnought looking thing. Why have all that heavy armor plating when you're just going to hang out of it half naked? All it'd take is a stray bullet to take down that walking tank.
Yeah, the Penitent Engine is a dumb idea, isn't it?
I don't think armor color would have the same effect, only because there isn't a thin skin tight armor like that. I guess since they have force field generators and antigrav devices this could be a possibility but black suits make more sense, it makes it more Gantz like. You could do different color bodysuits though in Evangelion style.
rayphoton wrote: Painting the skin a glossy black like its a undersuit sounds like a really good idea and would look cool I think.
That is probably what I do and not because of boobs or skins, but more for an anime feel. At least I can pretend they are incased in venom like suit and substances, so when a wound happens, this black ooze fills and cauterizes it.
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
TheCustomLime wrote: I think that's what is sparking so much annoyance with everyone. Prodos came really close to making badass female power armored troops. The basic ideas behind the sculpts are very nice. But then they decided to go full cheesecake and ruin what could have been something very nice.
Yea this is totally the case for me, I love boobs as much as most men, but there is a time and a place !
I am pretty sure that if these troops were less sexualized they would sell many many more, but what do i know ?
Also, this thread has been quite an amusing read with people taking the high ground, people getting offended, people trying to further offend the offended and the odd baseless remark here and there about how boobs on minis are the realm of young single men !
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
The robot woman looks good from the front. If she has flapping robo-buns, that would be a bit of a shame, but Sedition Wars style back armor would suit her. The Victoria's Secret fantasy warrior is fairly typical and boring. The boots look really uncomfortable.
agnosto wrote: Ironic that Jehan lives in the one country where these minis could be on every game table and no one would bat an eye. Heck in 2004, you could still buy used school girl panties from vending machines outside of 7-11 in Kita-Kyushu...
@Jorny, required breast enlargement would explain why they're all roughly the same size.
Don't forget their massive rape sim game industry and anime with racist caricatures that makes Mammy from the old Tom and Jerry cartoons look progressive.
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
And Crusaders Hero reinforcement concepts
This actually makes me happy. I would be willing to give the game a try now. A little more armor in key areas could make this something I wouldn't be embarrassed to own.
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
And Crusaders Hero reinforcement concepts
This actually makes me happy. I would be willing to give the game a try now. A little more armor in key areas could make this something I wouldn't be embarrassed to own.
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
And Crusaders Hero reinforcement concepts
They're still ridiculous. Massive armored boots, and a handkerchief skirt?
The people who approve these ideas should have to try walking around in similar clothing, outdoors.
"Not quite as mind bogglingly crass as the previous artwork." If you're looking for quantifiable feedback.
I'm agreed that everything in the original box art is a pile of gak - sexist, stupid, ugly as hell models. The stuff on this page - which they call 'PG13' - is much, much better female miniature design.
Hell, I'm even insulted at the implication that the only reason people want the covered models is because they're children - because OBVIOUSLY any male over the age of 13 just wants cheesecake, right? It's not the 'PG13' version, it's the 'not a desperately horny teenage boy' version.
Anyway. What im more interested to know is - is this REALLY Space Crusade? Like, three groups of power armoured protagonists with varying weapon load outs chasing blips, finding out what's in each room, facing a vast array of different aliens? From the box contents, I can't see how you couLd play the Space Crusade we remember from the 90s. It looks like a totally new game with 'Space Crusade' stamped on it for reasons of IP?
I'm actually confused about this statement... mainly because these are PG-13 miniatures, at least in terms of movie rating with the exception of Mabs and Mamoona. Topless women is PG-13 rating, technically so is full frontal nudity, they just can't show sex or have graphic depictions of love-making. You can't use the F-word. Beyond that these are already PG-13.
The original style was really different and stood out. It is fantasy after all, and I find the weapons that should require a crane to lift more out of proportion than the exaggerated female bits.
Frankly I like campy style, over the top ludicrous things. This minis made me chuckle and it was nostalgic back to the old days when things were fun just because they were outrageous.
Thrud minis were insanely out of proportion. Massively over muscled in a small loin cloth. I don't remember if people reacted in the same way.
Many of the old "B" movies were simply filled with insane gore and blood as well as pointless cleavage. Remember Elvira? Check out movies like- " Slave Girls from Beyond Infinity", or " Nymphoid Barbarian in Dinosaur Hell". Utterly horrible but that is the appeal.
Chibli minis are also a bit odd, what with the huge heads and all. I think they are pretty cool though.
Politically correct minis lose some of the fun. That seems to be the point of political correctness, taking all the joy out of life.
Yes, it is a bit inexplicable why the driver of an armored robot would choose to hang naked in the front with no protection. I will grant you that this makes no sense whatsoever.
But if you are looking for a laugh out loud army that is truly different, I can not think of a better example. I much prefer the painted skin look. Very nice job.
ArbitorIan wrote: I'm agreed that everything in the original box art is a pile of gak - sexist, stupid, ugly as hell models. The stuff on this page - which they call 'PG13' - is much, much better female miniature design.
Hell, I'm even insulted at the implication that the only reason people want the covered models is because they're children - because OBVIOUSLY any male over the age of 13 just wants cheesecake, right? It's not the 'PG13' version, it's the 'not a desperately horny teenage boy' version.
Anyway. What im more interested to know is - is this REALLY Space Crusade? Like, three groups of power armoured protagonists with varying weapon load outs chasing blips, finding out what's in each room, facing a vast array of different aliens? From the box contents, I can't see how you couLd play the Space Crusade we remember from the 90s. It looks like a totally new game with 'Space Crusade' stamped on it for reasons of IP?
Yes, so, a for the game play:
1. It's Heroquest style game with an option to either expand your army OR get your hero loaded up with experience and equipment, so it's really combining OLD style of Space Crusade gameplay (army vs army) with a bit of hero-quest.
2. The game is for 2-6 players.
3. Main goal is to release Mamoona demon and kill it (as cooperative game) OR to find a Relics that will allow to one of the player to control Mamoona and her demons and use it in fight against other players. The cool bit about it that the true Relic card (drawn at the beginning of the game or you can get one by fulfilling missions) is never shown to other players so, you may be going co-op game to find out at the end that one of the players actually want to be the bad one (sh/he does't have to use the Relic)... never trust your friend I would say.
4. We have currently in the box : 3 factions, NPC/controllable (demons), Crusaders and Unfaithful (Heroes)
5. The plan is to add (could be to main box or as a set of add-ons) Orc Hero (and it's reinforcement models as an add-on), IA Hero (name needed + add-ons separate).
I'm actually confused about this statement... mainly because these are PG-13 miniatures, at least in terms of movie rating with the exception of Mabs and Mamoona. Topless women is PG-13 rating, technically so is full frontal nudity, they just can't show sex or have graphic depictions of love-making. You can't use the F-word. Beyond that these are already PG-13.
One of the problem is advertising the product. The law is really badly done in EU, in general your kid may watch Star Wars with all it's valence (killing) but when it comes to nudity that is BIG NO!!! That's PG16 at least ...
1. It's Heroquest style game with an option to either expand your army OR get your hero loaded up with experience and equipment, so it's really combining OLD style of Space Crusade gameplay (army vs army) with a bit of hero-quest.
2. The game is for 2-6 players.
3. Main goal is to release Mamoona demon and kill it (as cooperative game) OR to find a Relics that will allow to one of the player to control Mamoona and her demons and use it in fight against other players. The cool bit about it that the true Relic card (drawn at the beginning of the game or you can get one by fulfilling missions) is never shown to other players so, you may be going co-op game to find out at the end that one of the players actually want to be the bad one (sh/he does't have to use the Relic)... never trust your friend I would say.
4. We have currently in the box : 3 factions, NPC/controllable (demons), Crusaders and Unfaithful (Heroes)
5. The plan is to add (could be to main box or as a set of add-ons) Orc Hero (and it's reinforcement models as an add-on), IA Hero (name needed + add-ons separate).
Great - thanks for the fast response,
So, that clears it up for me, then. This is 'in the style' of old SC and HQ games, but it is not a re-release or remake of the 90s game 'Space Crusade' - it's a new game.
You're just using the name 'Space Crusade' to drum up sales. If it's out of copyright, then absolutely fine, but it's a bit misleading to gamers.
I'd love a re-release of Space Crusade, but this isn't it...
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
Pffff, bring back the boobs I say.
But in all seriousness the sculpts arent actually too bad, they're just totally OTT boobage for no good reason.
Whoever photoshopped that black carapace idea was onto something.
1. It's Heroquest style game with an option to either expand your army OR get your hero loaded up with experience and equipment, so it's really combining OLD style of Space Crusade gameplay (army vs army) with a bit of hero-quest.
2. The game is for 2-6 players.
3. Main goal is to release Mamoona demon and kill it (as cooperative game) OR to find a Relics that will allow to one of the player to control Mamoona and her demons and use it in fight against other players. The cool bit about it that the true Relic card (drawn at the beginning of the game or you can get one by fulfilling missions) is never shown to other players so, you may be going co-op game to find out at the end that one of the players actually want to be the bad one (sh/he does't have to use the Relic)... never trust your friend I would say.
4. We have currently in the box : 3 factions, NPC/controllable (demons), Crusaders and Unfaithful (Heroes)
5. The plan is to add (could be to main box or as a set of add-ons) Orc Hero (and it's reinforcement models as an add-on), IA Hero (name needed + add-ons separate).
Great - thanks for the fast response,
So, that clears it up for me, then. This is 'in the style' of old SC and HQ games, but it is not a re-release or remake of the 90s game 'Space Crusade' - it's a new game.
You're just using the name 'Space Crusade' to drum up sales. If it's out of copyright, then absolutely fine, but it's a bit misleading to gamers.
I'd love a re-release of Space Crusade, but this isn't it...
It's worth to mention that the game tiles are double sided, on one side is Lost Temple, and this one is to used for more old classic SC, and as it' with AvP, build your army system will be incorporated, giving you full experience of old SC + NPC (demons).
Then seemingly neglecting to hire anyone who understood how physics functions around heavy sacks of flesh.
Except the not-Nurgle seems to be flopping around realistically, so I have no idea why all the not-sisters have helium tits rather than the pleasant curve of a weighted breast going on.
The physics and anatomy of breast seems to often escape sculptors. In this case it looks like they have used bad breast enlargements as their anatomy guide. But maybe it is because internet porn is cheaper than an actual book on anatomy.
From the 90's maybe, even porn stars don't have breasts that bad these days.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: One of the problem is advertising the product. The law is really badly done in EU, in general your kid may watch Star Wars with all it's valence (killing) but when it comes to nudity that is BIG NO!!! That's PG16 at least ...
That makes sense. I am used to sing PG-13 and R but didn't realize there was a difference between those ratings between countries (I should have known that though, so my bad). I just looked up the different ratings at least with movies between countries, it is interesting when comparing them with each other.
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
Spoiler:
The waist is smaller with armour than without, it's smaller than the things bloody leg.
I kept comeing back and looking at the image thinking "Something dosen't look right here, but I'm not sure what...." Yah it's the torso is two thin with thows armoured plates.
I'm actually confused about this statement... mainly because these are PG-13 miniatures, at least in terms of movie rating with the exception of Mabs and Mamoona. Topless women is PG-13 rating, technically so is full frontal nudity, they just can't show sex or have graphic depictions of love-making. You can't use the F-word. Beyond that these are already PG-13.
You seem to be able to get in *one* F-Word nowadays (see Wolverine's response in X-Men first class), but good luck getting even a flacid dong past the MPAA in PG-13 movies (or an R for that matter!). Nudity in general has been cut back, whereas in the 70's/80's there were more "non-sexual" nudity, Perseus' mother's bare breasts in Clash of the Titans for example. Which seems absurd given that every kid with an internet connection has access to so much online porn that one has to actually work to AVOID it now. Back in my day, you had to walk 5 miles uphill both ways to find an old Playboy in the woods (and what manner of woods goblin ran around throwing slightly mildewy mags around?!).
I am surprised that the bikini clad models aren't the equivalent of PG-13 in the UK, given the old Page 3 girl thing in their tabloids.
Don't you dare blame this dislike of the designs on "children".
By doing so, you are saying that to appeal to adults, it must have nudity. It is insulting to your own customers and the hobby scene in general to pretend that only kids don't want helium breasts or pointlessly tiny armour on their models.
Plenty adults can work out what they want without being lead by their trousers.
I like tits. I like pizza.
I don't want to combine the two of these things. The pizza company do not have to use naked women to convince me it's worth buying.
I like tits. I like miniatures.
See what I'm getting at here?
Buttery Commissar wrote: Don't you dare blame this dislike of the designs on "children".
By doing so, you are saying that to appeal to adults, it must have nudity. It is insulting to your own customers and the hobby scene in general to pretend that only kids don't want helium breasts or pointlessly tiny armour on their models.
Plenty adults can work out what they want without being lead by their trousers.
I like tits. I like pizza.
I don't want to combine the two of these things. The pizza company do not have to use naked women to convince me it's worth buying.
I like tits. I like miniatures.
See what I'm getting at here?
I'm actually confused about this statement... mainly because these are PG-13 miniatures, at least in terms of movie rating with the exception of Mabs and Mamoona. Topless women is PG-13 rating, technically so is full frontal nudity, they just can't show sex or have graphic depictions of love-making. You can't use the F-word. Beyond that these are already PG-13.
You seem to be able to get in *one* F-Word nowadays (see Wolverine's response in X-Men first class), but good luck getting even a flacid dong past the MPAA in PG-13 movies (or an R for that matter!). Nudity in general has been cut back, whereas in the 70's/80's there were more "non-sexual" nudity, Perseus' mother's bare breasts in Clash of the Titans for example. Which seems absurd given that every kid with an internet connection has access to so much online porn that one has to actually work to AVOID it now. Back in my day, you had to walk 5 miles uphill both ways to find an old Playboy in the woods (and what manner of woods goblin ran around throwing slightly mildewy mags around?!).
I am surprised that the bikini clad models aren't the equivalent of PG-13 in the UK, given the old Page 3 girl thing in their tabloids.
Anyone could buy The Sun newspaper (the one with Page 3). Not really a big deal seeing a pair of boobs, nothing kids won't see on any beach. I don't think nudity/sex is such a big issue as it is in the US.
Toys aren't general age rated either.
Nonetheless the models in this games are not good. The extra armour (such as it is) hasn't really improved them.
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
So...before or after everyone gets their AvP stuff? I'm actually hoping all the people who said they'd buy the...whatever you want to call them...just to spite those evil SJWs go ahead and preorder. The next couple years should be entertaining.
The dreadnought's not too bad - it ties a bit into the Penitent Engine, which I'm sure was the idea - but the 'force-fielded' terminators? The jetpack and biker ladies with their magically unburned lower bodies? Come on, now.
The new demon models don't bug me quite as much, actually. I guess it seems more 'body horror' than "LOOKATTHETIIIIIITS", and I'm a sucker for Geiger.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Ygood luck getting even a flacid dong past the MPAA in PG-13 movies (or an R for that matter!). Nudity in general has been cut back, whereas in the 70's/80's there were more "non-sexual" nudity
In the US male nudity does not equal female nudity or receive the same rating. A fully naked male will always get a R rating, while a fully naked female will usually be seen as PG-13. Providing frontal nudity is just the top and not bottom, then it usually will always get a pass while full frontal is dependent on the 8 people rating the movie. That is mostly because of western culture beliefs and society... a nude male is viewed as pornographic while a nude female is viewed as beautiful and artful. That is the unfortunate truth but often overlooked reverse nature in terms of sexism in relation to just plain nudity, without sexual overtones or situations.
The above however only refers to US standards or lack of standards for that matter. Other countries as I have found out, have a much different scale and rating of things.
Wolverine was only rated 5/10 for profanity for, average for both Theatrical Cut and Extended Cut
4 uses of sh**, 3 uses of bi***, 4 uses of he**, 1 use of ba***, 1 use of a**, 2 use of a**hole, 1 use of da**. 1 religious exclamation, 1 use of bas****.
1-F word in the Theatrical Cut
3-F words in the Extended Cut
Buttery Commissar wrote: Don't you dare blame this dislike of the designs on "children".
By doing so, you are saying that to appeal to adults, it must have nudity. It is insulting to your own customers and the hobby scene in general to pretend that only kids don't want helium breasts or pointlessly tiny armour on their models.
Plenty adults can work out what they want without being lead by their trousers.
I like tits. I like pizza.
I don't want to combine the two of these things. The pizza company do not have to use naked women to convince me it's worth buying.
I like tits. I like miniatures.
See what I'm getting at here?
Anyone could buy The Sun newspaper (the one with Page 3). Not really a big deal seeing a pair of boobs, nothing kids won't see on any beach. I don't think nudity/sex is such a big issue as it is in the US.
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
Spoiler:
The waist is smaller with armour than without, it's smaller than the things bloody leg.
I kept comeing back and looking at the image thinking "Something dosen't look right here, but I'm not sure what...." Yah it's the torso is two thin with thows armoured plates.
Is it the impractical, free flowing hair that obvs won't get in the way at the crucial moment?
Pacific wrote: Buttery Commissar - so you're saying that anything combining boobs, pizza and miniatures would not be worthwhile?
I will challenge you, sir, at a fundamental level there
Because I'm genuinely quite frustrated at how bad these figures are, and the condescending attitude that they'll only be toned down because mummy and daddy complained, I'll pass on the continuation of frivolity.
Speaking as someone who owns a Slaanesh army, even I fething despair.
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
Spoiler:
The waist is smaller with armour than without, it's smaller than the things bloody leg.
I kept comeing back and looking at the image thinking "Something dosen't look right here, but I'm not sure what...." Yah it's the torso is two thin with thows armoured plates.
Is it the impractical, free flowing hair that obvs won't get in the way at the crucial moment?
Well a fair point, the thing that keeps bugging me is the strange Rob Liefeld poportions going on with that waist.
It looks like she has to have a waist like this to fit in the power armour.
I'm pretty sure that if there were any women in the Warhammer 40K universe, this is what they would look like. Sure, they are ridiculous caricatures, but so is everything in 40k and Warhammer. Didn't the Age of Sigmar box come with a bunch of Khorne cultists with armor all over their shins and forearms and nowhere else (aside from some with helmets, I think)? Presumably so that everyone could see their 12-pack abs mighty pecs.
Albino Squirrel wrote: I'm pretty sure that if there were any women in the Warhammer 40K universe, this is what they would look like. Sure, they are ridiculous caricatures, but so is everything in 40k and Warhammer. Didn't the Age of Sigmar box come with a bunch of Khorne cultists with armor all over their shins and forearms and nowhere else (aside from some with helmets, I think)? Presumably so that everyone could see their 12-pack abs mighty pecs.
This.
Toy soldiers fantasy, anyone.
"Your fantasy soldiers are not realistic and are sexist! Mine are only unrealistic and racist!"
Albino Squirrel wrote: I'm pretty sure that if there were any women in the Warhammer 40K universe, this is what they would look like. Sure, they are ridiculous caricatures, but so is everything in 40k and Warhammer. Didn't the Age of Sigmar box come with a bunch of Khorne cultists with armor all over their shins and forearms and nowhere else (aside from some with helmets, I think)? Presumably so that everyone could see their 12-pack abs mighty pecs.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong.
There's various official artwork of women who aren't bite-the-bedpost crazy in 40K.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Because the original post said "if there were any", so I was giving scope.
Fair enough.
The demons look fine as-is and the armored up versions of the Crusaders and the not-Cron look acceptable. They don't scream of the worst expectations of the wargaming community - true or not.
Wasn't interested in the heavy Crusaders anyway - not because I was disgusted or anything, just didn't want termies - and the new model doesn't really change that.
This is like, really bad. I was planning to spend some more money on Warzone, but now I have to reconsider the purchase. Don't think I want to support a company that profits on sexism and alienates the female audience from the hobby. Not to mention how unoriginal and cheap the whole concept is.
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
And Crusaders Hero reinforcement concepts
This actually makes me happy. I would be willing to give the game a try now. A little more armor in key areas could make this something I wouldn't be embarrassed to own.
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
This sculpt makes a lot more sense space armor wise
The waist should be almost as wide as the ribcage, and the inside of the thighs should be closer together. Making the inside knee roundel smaller would help - the idea should be to allow her to stand in as close to a natural pose as possible, so putting the articulation on the outside of the knees to avoid getting in the way would make sense. The last thing you'd want is for the knee joints to catch while running and knock her flat.
Wow, the fully armored version is 100% better! I agree that the ab area could be a little beefier, but damn, her arms in the not-terminator armor actually look somewhat anatomical versus actual GW terminators! She doesn't need her shoulders to be dislocated to fit like they do.
I can't believe I am looking at a decently-sculpted power armor boob-plate from the same company who would sell the other versions.
I think they'd be fun to paint. I'll take some of these and fully-armored regular troops, versus the Succubi versions as they are, because those at least can make sense as they are.
I'm a little scared about how close the lower halves of the medium daemons look like....ahem. I'm pretending to believe it's a distended belly being pulled open.
AlexHolker wrote: The waist should be almost as wide as the ribcage, and the inside of the thighs should be closer together. Making the inside knee roundel smaller would help - the idea should be to allow her to stand in as close to a natural pose as possible, so putting the articulation on the outside of the knees to avoid getting in the way would make sense. The last thing you'd want is for the knee joints to catch while running and knock her flat.
It's as if the sculptor is a writer in the fashion section of the Daily Mail...
agnosto wrote: Ironic that Jehan lives in the one country where these minis could be on every game table and no one would bat an eye. Heck in 2004, you could still buy used school girl panties from vending machines outside of 7-11 in Kita-Kyushu...
Well i agree i live in a country that misogynists run rampant, and under aged girls are objectified. And during my travels through the sub culture i found a shop in Tokyo that sold used school panties back in 2000.
But openly this would also be frowned upon, if it is cutesy and super deformed style than it would be ok. They have still strong obscenity laws here in Japan.
Back to the topic, The terminator variant waist is too thin unless this is where you want to go for?
Pacific wrote: Buttery Commissar - so you're saying that anything combining boobs, pizza and miniatures would not be worthwhile?
I will challenge you, sir, at a fundamental level there
Because I'm genuinely quite frustrated at how bad these figures are, and the condescending attitude that they'll only be toned down because mummy and daddy complained, I'll pass on the continuation of frivolity.
Speaking as someone who owns a Slaanesh army, even I fething despair.
Well.. two hours of searching for a combination of the aforementioned three and couldn't really find anything - perhaps you are right after all!
Seriously though, think the daemons are the best part of this.
I don't play Slaaneshi (well.. haven't owned any miniatures from that range for probably 20 years or so, so god-knows what is about these days) but think these aren't too bad:
Another alternative I think would be to have a more alien-looking skin (deep purple or darker red perhaps - which might then look good with a burnished gold or dark metal armour)
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
And Crusaders Hero reinforcement concepts
At the risk of Quote'ception, thanks for the response.
I'll definitely be picking up some properly armoured ladies for use in place of other armoured ladies whose models predate my own involvement in the game for which they are designed.
Much like the original designers of the sisters of battle, I'm less concerned that the armour makes perfect sense as space future armour and more concerned that its quite obvious that they are women.
The armour does have to be there for them to be considered armoured females however, and I'm looking forward to seeing these realised.
ergotoxin wrote: This is like, really bad. I was planning to spend some more money on Warzone, but now I have to reconsider the purchase. Don't think I want to support a company that profits on sexism and alienates the female audience from the hobby. Not to mention how unoriginal and cheap the whole concept is.
Me too! I've been looking into WZR for a while now, but hearing about the aVP shenanigans and then seeing this, I don't really think I want to give them any money!!
ergotoxin wrote: This is like, really bad. I was planning to spend some more money on Warzone, but now I have to reconsider the purchase. Don't think I want to support a company that profits on sexism and alienates the female audience from the hobby. Not to mention how unoriginal and cheap the whole concept is.
Me too! I've been looking into WZR for a while now, but hearing about the aVP shenanigans and then seeing this, I don't really think I want to give them any money!!
Shenanigans are putting it mildly. Without going too far off topic it's been a fething nightmare, and a lot of folks are still waiting for their pledge rewards. A fair few folks dropped a good bit of money on that- I think some of them were in the 100s of pounds region. I've got most of my rewards, but still waiting on youngblood preds, obj markers and face huggers.
ANYWAYS- the models for Prodos' Space Crusade PG are sooo much better than the 18+ lol. With the exception of size minus 10 waistlines that is.
ArbitorIan wrote: Me too! I've been looking into WZR for a while now, but hearing about the aVP shenanigans and then seeing this, I don't really think I want to give them any money!!
Same here.
I saw Prodos, thought I might see something to use with the small amount of WZR I have, and got shown this.
I'll see how they look after this has settled down.
Me too! I've been looking into WZR for a while now, but hearing about the aVP shenanigans and then seeing this, I don't really think I want to give them any money!!
Thats kinda dumb. Its similar to not going to china on vacation cause they used slave labor to build their wall. If you like the war zone stuff....and think its worth buying ..then get it . If you don't like the crusader stuff..then don't buy it.
I do not understand the outrage.
Sideshow statues made this
Some people didn't like it, but no one boycotted the company..cause they also made this
Raging heroes ran a 800000k Kickstarter. People gave them grief about crappy communication but...it doesn't seem like anyone REALLY went off on them for the concepts.
Kingdom Death is PRAISED for it execution of some...damn near naked ladies. there IS a sold out mini of a girl with a bikini made of TONGUES....
I DO understand why some people don't like them. Sure...you don't like pin-uppy unrealistic stuff. (I'm ignoring the obvious this is space fantasy argument there). The hawkeye initiative is very clever and totally makes sense.
I DON'T understand the (I'll be honest..this is just how it feels and I might be misreading tone on the internet) frothing hatred people have for these miniatures. Its like prodoss went out and took pictures of people mothers and then made these miniatures off of them. these are not real people...no one is being hurt.
Maybe its cause I'm older and just am out of touch, or...I really like gil elvgren and olivia so i just don't care as much or...you know, I'm a sociopath...or something. But why are you all (most not everyone) so angry about this?
Also..I'm not trying to troll or be internet obnoxious...I'm just really curious....cause to me...this seems like a non issue
People are wary of prodos due to AVP kS shenanigans i.e: some rewards have still not been delivered though retail have been getting their goods.
For me I don't hate Prodos but take issue with the poor sculpting of the Crusaders especially when compared with their demons (which actually look half decent).
RH and KD are superior sculpts. And reflect their own internal fluff. I have no use or desire for either companies product but they are consistent in their art direction.
Prodos have deliberately gone for a sexy look only to ensure exposure and hopefully for them revenue. The Space crusaders are not even consistent with their own approach. Especially given that they are now considering a PG-13 version.
Even the PG-13 version of the Crusaders with the armoured torsos are poorly designed. Given that they can produce decent work with Warzone I am at a loss as to what response they really expected when garage casters are producing superior work.
Finally cheesecake doesnt have to be as grotesque as Prodos seem to think the consumer wants.
Maybe its cause I'm older and just am out of touch, or...I really like gil elvgren and olivia so i just don't care as much or...you know, I'm a sociopath...or something. But why are you all (most not everyone) so angry about this?
I'm not angry. I was disappointed there but now I'm relieved that we're getting fully armoured versions of the crusaders.
From what I've read, people's resistance to this stems from:
1: Actually disliking the minis- subjective
2: Liking the mini's but being upset at the missed opportunity. Sisters players looking for good proxies go in here, but Prodos said they'll bring out armoured versions so this is a bit of a non issue unless you take issue with their poses, which aren't gritty combat stances- in which case that's number 1.
3: Virtue Signalling- being seen to reject what are admittedly highly sexualised toy soldiers for one of the following causes:
_3a: Moral outrage- sexuality is bad.
_3b: Social Justice- these women are sexy which reduces women to objects, women should only be sexy when they so choose and for reasons which I find valid.
_3c: Space marines are Serious Business- this reinforces the idea that wargamers are just lonely losers and now nobody will take my hobby of collecting and playing with toy space soldiers seriously.
4: Not erotic enough. Why stop at bare midriffs and thighs?
5: The armour is not logical. Rather than a resistance to the form, its a resistance to the lack of function. Whether the glaring vulnerabilities which could be waved away in fantasy setting's chain mail bikini or spine crushing weight the lack of support between the boots and chestplate would place on the girls shoulders, the internal inconsistency of power armoured lingerie is too much to suspend disbelief. This ties in with 2 and hopefully will be rectified.
6: Fans of Prodos' other projects are either aggrieved that effort is going into this with promises unfulfilled elsewhere or advising others to be wary of said unfulfilled promises
Note that none of these grievances are entirely without merit. None of them are a valid reason for this product not to exist or be successful.
I can get behind the "Prodos has screwed us on this other thing(AVP) so [Radio Edit} them on this project. Its just not many people seem to mention that angle very much.
And yeah...if you don't like the mini..say so.
"I think the wulfen look weird but thats just me"
I'm just sorta take a back at the vitriol.
"These aren't cheese cake these are rancid cottage cheese"
"I hope GW sues them and they go out of business cause they deserve it"
"I was gonna buy something from them but now I wont cause I'm so offended"
All actual quotes.....(paraphrased)
etc etc
But thank you for responding respectfully and not calling me a terrible name or inferring I'm a loser 15 year old with 0 dating prospects.
Without a major corporation/IP to deal with, I doubt there will be delays in delivery with this product.
Not really my cup of tea, but the resins look much better than the computer painted models. The fully armored models seem fairly generic to me, but folks seem to like em.
rayphoton wrote: Thats kinda dumb. Its similar to not going to china on vacation cause they used slave labor to build their wall. If you like the war zone stuff....and think its worth buying ..then get it . If you don't like the crusader stuff..then don't buy it.
No, it's similar to not liking the business practices of a company, and therefore choosing not to use the company. Like avoiding Nestle, or Amazon, or Uber, because you disagree with the company. Plenty of people do it all the time.
Also..I'm not trying to troll or be internet obnoxious...I'm just really curious....cause to me...this seems like a non issue
Yeah, I find it interesting too. There are a fair amount of female models out there, made to varying different levels of sexualisation. I think the point at which people dislike this is actually much more connected to the perceived intent of the designers (and thus the attitude of the company) than what clothing is on the models.
I don't think Raging Heroes made a line of badass punk 'Jailbirds' influenced by Tank Girl and Vasquez because they REALLY wanted to see boobs. The models are sexualised, but also campy, and play on a trope that already exists. In short, I don't think an outsider seeing someone play with a toy soldier army of Kurganovas or Jailbirds or Sisters of Battle would think of them as any more stupid than Space Marines are - both gendered, some sexualised to a degree, but both references to real-world things. My punk commando girls fight your warrior monk guys.
But the Prodos models don't look like they're sculpted for kitsch value. or with any art or reference in mind. They look like the design process went 'HURRR... BEWBS'. The sole purpose of these models is boobs. That's what they're for. Boobs. The whole range looks like it was conceived by a thirteen year old boy, and I think that's what an outsider to the hobby would think about grown adult humans playing with THAT army.
Let's be clear that this isn't about 'models can't be sexy' - Jailbirds are still 'sexy' models. It has nothing to do with prudishness or how much flesh is on show. Make naked models if it works in the background. Juan Diaz' Daemonettes were fetching amazing models, and made sense the BG. The Dark Eldar range has a brilliant balance of 'slightly S&M stuff and lithe, sexy female forms without being stupid. This doesn't.
We could just say 'Well, don't buy them then' but that misses the point. The models put out by the TTG industry affect how people see the TTG industry and that, in turn, affects how people see us gamers. I'm not a thirteen year old boy who goes 'HURR...BEWBS'. I don't want people seeing these and assuming that I am. Further, I don't want people seeing these, and assuming that ALL gamers are just thirteen year old boys going 'HURR...BEWBS'. Because then less people will get involved. And that's bad for gaming.
It's a vague and messy collection of thoughts that could probably do with some editing, but I think that's why the response is anger rather than just 'meh, I won't buy those'.
Meh.
You know what's the issue with those minis ? They're wearing too much. I don't mind a game full of bikini babes at all, but why go half-way ?
"Space Babes in Bikinis with Guns!". Now that's a game that'll have my attention.
As they are currently, the "armor" makes no sense at all, it doesn't provide protection, nor does it even fit...
So you go full bikini babes OR you go power-armored nuns, but you don't go for a lame half-hearted attempt at both.
rayphoton wrote: Thats kinda dumb. Its similar to not going to china on vacation cause they used slave labor to build their wall. If you like the war zone stuff....and think its worth buying ..then get it . If you don't like the crusader stuff..then don't buy it.
No, it's similar to not liking the business practices of a company, and therefore choosing not to use the company. Like avoiding Nestle, or Amazon, or Uber, because you disagree with the company. Plenty of people do it all the time.
Also..I'm not trying to troll or be internet obnoxious...I'm just really curious....cause to me...this seems like a non issue
Yeah, I find it interesting too. There are a fair amount of female models out there, made to varying different levels of sexualisation. I think the point at which people dislike this is actually much more connected to the perceived intent of the designers (and thus the attitude of the company) than what clothing is on the models.
I don't think Raging Heroes made a line of badass punk 'Jailbirds' influenced by Tank Girl and Vasquez because they REALLY wanted to see boobs. The models are sexualised, but also campy, and play on a trope that already exists. In short, I don't think an outsider seeing someone play with a toy soldier army of Kurganovas or Jailbirds or Sisters of Battle would think of them as any more stupid than Space Marines are - both gendered, some sexualised to a degree, but both references to real-world things. My punk commando girls fight your warrior monk guys.
But the Prodos models don't look like they're sculpted for kitsch value. or with any art or reference in mind. They look like the design process went 'HURRR... BEWBS'. The sole purpose of these models is boobs. That's what they're for. Boobs. The whole range looks like it was conceived by a thirteen year old boy, and I think that's what an outsider to the hobby would think about grown adult humans playing with THAT army.
Let's be clear that this isn't about 'models can't be sexy' - Jailbirds are still 'sexy' models. It has nothing to do with prudishness or how much flesh is on show. Make naked models if it works in the background. Juan Diaz' Daemonettes were fetching amazing models, and made sense the BG. The Dark Eldar range has a brilliant balance of 'slightly S&M stuff and lithe, sexy female forms without being stupid. This doesn't.
We could just say 'Well, don't buy them then' but that misses the point. The models put out by the TTG industry affect how people see the TTG industry and that, in turn, affects how people see us gamers. I'm not a thirteen year old boy who goes 'HURR...BEWBS'. I don't want people seeing these and assuming that I am. Further, I don't want people seeing these, and assuming that ALL gamers are just thirteen year old boys going 'HURR...BEWBS'. Because then less people will get involved. And that's bad for gaming.
It's a vague and messy collection of thoughts that could probably do with some editing, but I think that's why the response is anger rather than just 'meh, I won't buy those'.
Various edits for clarity....
Thanks for your comments, please bear in mind, as explained in our previous posts SC (18+ Miniatures) style is based more on manga/ heroic '90/ fantasy Conan - as for reference... in general '90 comic book style?
Frankly, Prodos is manufacturing a lot miniatures for other companies and to be hones, some of them are over the top... however I don't see much storm about them, thus, I thing the issue is somewhere else.
As with TGG or KD or RK miniatures all of the appealing to different customers, and sell very well.
For Prodos having a different style of miniatures is important, it's same as car companies have in their range a Sport car, family and a Van... something for a different customer, it only shows that we are not one trick pony in case of design (32mm true scale minis).
Also, let me get that clear in my head : Juan Diaz' Daemonettes is not sexism, labelling nor it should offend anyone because it's justified by the fluff (sculpted with reference in mind)?
Maybe I am missing the point but ,really don't think, as a parent, I would allow my 13y old son paint the boobz just because its OK with fluff, no, this product is for 16+ same as SC, and to be clear, I don't see personally any issues with them, it's just product for older audience.
Me too! I've been looking into WZR for a while now, but hearing about the aVP shenanigans and then seeing this, I don't really think I want to give them any money!!
Thats kinda dumb. Its similar to not going to china on vacation cause they used slave labor to build their wall. If you like the war zone stuff....and think its worth buying ..then get it . If you don't like the crusader stuff..then don't buy it.
I do not understand the outrage.
Spoiler:
Sideshow statues made this
Some people didn't like it, but no one boycotted the company..cause they also made this
Raging heroes ran a 800000k Kickstarter. People gave them grief about crappy communication but...it doesn't seem like anyone REALLY went off on them for the concepts.
Kingdom Death is PRAISED for it execution of some...damn near naked ladies. there IS a sold out mini of a girl with a bikini made of TONGUES....
I DO understand why some people don't like them. Sure...you don't like pin-uppy unrealistic stuff. (I'm ignoring the obvious this is space fantasy argument there). The hawkeye initiative is very clever and totally makes sense.
I DON'T understand the (I'll be honest..this is just how it feels and I might be misreading tone on the internet) frothing hatred people have for these miniatures. Its like prodoss went out and took pictures of people mothers and then made these miniatures off of them. these are not real people...no one is being hurt.
Maybe its cause I'm older and just am out of touch, or...I really like gil elvgren and olivia so i just don't care as much or...you know, I'm a sociopath...or something. But why are you all (most not everyone) so angry about this?
Also..I'm not trying to troll or be internet obnoxious...I'm just really curious....cause to me...this seems like a non issue
Those are different markets. Not all people who buy dolls buy sex dolls, obviously. Not all people who buy statues buy sexualized statues. The models as presented will have a fairly sizable number of people interested, I believe; personally, I don't care for nudity for the sake of nudity but I get that "cheesecake" is a thing for some people.
All of that said, I often game around small children and it's not my place to expose them to nudity or sex, I also object to them taking part in simulated violence but not being their parent, it's not my call. What is my call is whether I bring models that exude a certain esthetic, theme, whatever that I, myself, would not want my child exposed to by a stranger.
Other than that, the models are a bit puerile in design. If you're going to sculpt semi-nudes, you can at least recognize that a) gravity exists and b) not all breasts are the same size and/or shape. Sure, you can apply handwavium all you like and say, "well it's sci-fi" but there's a reason people laugh at GW's heroic models and their guerrilla hands and disproportionate anatomy.
I also agree with HudsonD to a certain extent that campy sexualization is a bit different than "bewbs for the bewb god." And there might actually be a market for a late 60's movie-esque representation of "beach, blanket, bombs!" Bikini girls with bolters (channeling the Cramps here [old band]....gee I'm old) or whatever vs just enough armor for potential customers to draw the obvious conclusion that these models are counts-as GW models (not necessarily a bad thing). Either they stand as counts-as models or they stand on their own, no need for 1/2 measures unless you realize that there simply isn't enough technical skill used in the creation of the models for them to stand on their own merit.
Maybe its cause I'm older and just am out of touch, or...I really like gil elvgren and olivia so i just don't care as much or...you know, I'm a sociopath...or something. But why are you all (most not everyone) so angry about this?
I'm not angry. I was disappointed there but now I'm relieved that we're getting fully armoured versions of the crusaders.
From what I've read, people's resistance to this stems from:
1: Actually disliking the minis- subjective
2: Liking the mini's but being upset at the missed opportunity. Sisters players looking for good proxies go in here, but Prodos said they'll bring out armoured versions so this is a bit of a non issue unless you take issue with their poses, which aren't gritty combat stances- in which case that's number 1.
3: Virtue Signalling- being seen to reject what are admittedly highly sexualised toy soldiers for one of the following causes:
_3a: Moral outrage- sexuality is bad.
_3b: Social Justice- these women are sexy which reduces women to objects, women should only be sexy when they so choose and for reasons which I find valid.
_3c: Space marines are Serious Business- this reinforces the idea that wargamers are just lonely losers and now nobody will take my hobby of collecting and playing with toy space soldiers seriously.
4: Not erotic enough. Why stop at bare midriffs and thighs?
5: The armour is not logical. Rather than a resistance to the form, its a resistance to the lack of function. Whether the glaring vulnerabilities which could be waved away in fantasy setting's chain mail bikini or spine crushing weight the lack of support between the boots and chestplate would place on the girls shoulders, the internal inconsistency of power armoured lingerie is too much to suspend disbelief. This ties in with 2 and hopefully will be rectified.
6: Fans of Prodos' other projects are either aggrieved that effort is going into this with promises unfulfilled elsewhere or advising others to be wary of said unfulfilled promises
Note that none of these grievances are entirely without merit. None of them are a valid reason for this product not to exist or be successful.
I'm still waiting on some of my AVP items (Youngbloods, Invisible predators, facehuggers, etc.), and I respect the grievances of those who also participated in the KS.
But I also want to say that the AVP miniatures that I have received so far were top quality. Extremely well done, to a standard I'm not sure any other company could pull off. The same goes for the WarZone miniatures I've purchased at retail. When Prodos get their act together, they do what they do very well. If they follow through and deliver my last AVP items, I'm willing to bury the hatchet.
. . . IN THEIR COMPANY'S HEART!!! HA HAHAHAHAHAH!
Ok, seriously, the quality of the work is outstanding. And despite waiting over 2 years for my AVP stuff, that's worth something.
That said, this new Space Crusade line looks pretty terrible to me. Keep in mind that I am NOT the intended market, as cheesecake generally annoys or disturbs me, but that aside (if it's possible to set that aside), the designs here just don't seem to be executed on the same level as their excellent WarZone and AVP work. I don't mind Prodos having another line that doesn't cater to my taste or politics or whatever, but I am a little surprised to see it designed at what looks like a lower standard. I guess it's no bother to me as long as they keep making AVP and WarZone as well as they do.
Since I like Prodos's other work, I just hope that whatever other new initiatives lie in store, some of them will be more to my taste. And whoever has been doing your art design and computer modeling for AVP and WarZone, Jarek, don't let them get away.
Don't take my disinterest in SC too hard. Here's a hearty pat on the back for your Cybertronic troopers. I already loved the chasseurs, armoured and otherwise, and just spotted the new Machinators.
Ok, seriously, the quality of the work is outstanding. And despite waiting over 2 years for my AVP stuff, that's worth something.
That said, this new Space Crusade line looks pretty terrible to me. Keep in mind that I am NOT the intended market, as cheesecake generally annoys or disturbs me, but that aside (if it's possible to set that aside), the designs here just don't seem to be executed on the same level as their excellent WarZone and AVP work. I don't mind Prodos having another line that doesn't cater to my taste or politics or whatever, but I am a little surprised to see it designed at what looks like a lower standard. I guess it's no bother to me as long as they keep making AVP and WarZone as well as they do.
Agree completely , the quality of the AvP miniatures for one is absolutely stupendous. Honestly, despite everything that has gone on with the late KS, if you view those miniatures in isolation then they are stunning - I can't really think of what else they could do to make them better in my book, and that's speaking as someone as a massive Aliens and Predator fan.
So, Prodos are certainly capable of producing some cracking stuff - those terminator things above look pretty neat also.
Apart from the above-it-all self righteousness, maybe. Angel's kind of sniffy dismissal of the likes and dislikes of the intended market is pretty much why this rubbish is getting hauled over the coals.
Byte wrote: I like the Bikini armor. I hope they stick with it.
Good news, then, because that still appears to be the plan. Only now they'll also be making an alternate up-armored version in addition to the bikini marines.
Apart from the above-it-all self righteousness, maybe. Angel's kind of sniffy dismissal of the likes and dislikes of the intended market is pretty much why this rubbish is getting hauled over the coals.
I didn't mean to be dismissive. I did say that none of the objections were without merit. I do understand people not liking these, they are very marmite.
I was trying to be comprehensive, not know-it-all or above-it-all. I maintain that you could slot any of the posts following mine into one of those categories.
Married men do as well. As do women. As a matter of fact, if you judge by her art prints my wife appreciates the female form more than I do!
I think many people saying the boob minis are mainly for young men would be very surprised to see who is actually buying them, its definately not just horny young teens...
Married men do as well. As do women. As a matter of fact, if you judge by her art prints my wife appreciates the female form more than I do!
I think many people saying the boob minis are mainly for young men would be very surprised to see who is actually buying them, its definately not just horny young teens...
Yes, they are for the same single horny young teens that grow up to be single 40 year old virgins that play with Man-dolls and watch Anime because they can't get passed their parents (who they still live with) parental control lock outs on the internet (Sorry, I couldn't pass that up)
Married men do as well. As do women. As a matter of fact, if you judge by her art prints my wife appreciates the female form more than I do!
I think many people saying the boob minis are mainly for young men would be very surprised to see who is actually buying them, its definately not just horny young teens...
Actually, we had a purchase from a lady, that want them for her boyfriend as birthday gift.
Turns out, sometimes women enjoy sexuality, kink, T&A, etc... no way, right!?
These particular miniatures only touch the latter.
Scandalous!
skarsol wrote:It's like people are different and have different tastes!
Heresy!
To appeal to all tastes, perhaps there needs to be a range of male crusaders with their codpieces removed and their old fella hanging out (protected by force field, naturally).
Could work well for 40k too. It would certainly make it easier for Noise Marines to "honor Slaanesh" without that cumbersome armor in the way.
Nostromodamus wrote: To appeal to all tastes, perhaps there needs to be a range of male crusaders with their codpieces removed and their old fella hanging out (protected by force field, naturally). Could work well for 40k too. It would certainly make it easier for Noise Marines to "honor Slaanesh" without that cumbersome armor in the way.
That's a BRILLIANT idea.
I propose a third version of Space Crusade, this time with male models whose torso and groin armour is removed, all with teen boyband pecs & abs and raging, oversized boners. Released to the internet in exactly the same way as this. Aimed at the same people. Coming to your local FLGS soon.
I look forward to the gaming community being as accepting of that as they are of this product. Don't be offended, gamers - dicks are totally natural and some people like nude models. If you don't like it just don't buy it...
To appeal to all tastes, perhaps there needs to be a range of male crusaders with their codpieces removed and their old fella hanging out (protected by force field, naturally).
Could work well for 40k too. It would certainly make it easier for Noise Marines to "honor Slaanesh" without that cumbersome armor in the way.
Yeah, its funny how, other than the odd dark age berserker, its never some fella with his old chap out.
rayphoton wrote: If were gonna be accurate..we would need to feature marines the way woman want to see them...which is not how you have just described them.
they would have soft pouty lips and really great long hair. Big soulful eyes.
rayphoton wrote: If were gonna be accurate..we would need to feature marines the way woman want to see them...which is not how you have just described them.
they would have soft pouty lips and really great long hair. Big soulful eyes.
It's not just pervy old guys or teenagers that buy this kind of stuff.
Got a female friend who is really into buying women miniatures specifically, has some of the Kingdom Death and more striking Bushido releases etc.
ArbitorIan wrote:
I look forward to the gaming community being as accepting of that as they are of this product. Don't be offended, gamers - dicks are totally natural and some people like nude models. If you don't like it just don't buy it...
Has already been done, although not as 'sexified' as these are. Gripping Beast beserkers for SAGA, actually the first models my friend bought for his army just because he found them amusing.
In fact, I think that's how a lot of people find these things, and how I would find naked-torso space marines with power cod pieces; Just as a bit of fun and there for people who want them, rather than something I felt the need to clamber up onto the morale high-ground about.
His schlong is a personal forcefield which protects him, which is why he doesn't wear armour. He is posed squeezing his man nip, which is a MULTILAZOR!
If Prodos release the Space Crusade rules in free PDF form I might buy a few of these and have a game.
This thread has gotten far more entertaining than I expected it to
That said, I am often bothered at the boobs <> dicks analogy when (jokingly) demanding parity in sexual fetishism. I mean, it seems pretty clear that female nether gear are the functional equivalent to male nether gear, as frightening as female bits are to Western culture.
Maybe it's that male secondary sex characteristics are less exciting / hard to recognize as such, particularly for men? Given current pop culture, I'd probably argue that male AAAAABS are the equivalent to female BOOOOBS when it comes to titillation, with BUUUUUUTTS being shared gradually equally (though clearly still to the on-female-types side of things).
But I digress, do keep the wang jokes going!
- Salvage
PS: I tried to stick with male/female since we're talking about sexual dimorphism, apologies to other-gendered types reading, I've not intended to alienate when musing about objectified body fetishes!
Here are Demon models, that are included in the Space Crusade Board Game (PG13 and 18+ will have the same models).
In next few days we will reveal PG13+ miniatures as well. Thanks
Thanks
Can you please clarify this?
Are you armouring up the Crusaders 2m exhaust ports with the stomach plates etc or are you filing the nips off the succubi?
If not the former, would you consider adding the missing armour pieces?
Yes, as mentioned in my previous posts, we had a tons of emails asking to make this game accessible for kids as well, So version PG13+ is the one that will have more armour plates (Heroes) and eventually same will go for every add-on model.
One more questions:
What Dakkadakkars think about his miniature , a future add-on for the SC game (or may be included in the main box as a free gift)
And Crusaders Hero reinforcement concepts
This actually makes me happy. I would be willing to give the game a try now. A little more armor in key areas could make this something I wouldn't be embarrassed to own.
It' still a WIP but this is more less PG13+ version (need a bit more love for a Hero model)
Way better. Get that waist to a size that isn't silly and the whole package starts sounding real convincing (re-iterating that I think the daemon side looks great already).
Pacific wrote: It's not just pervy old guys or teenagers that buy this kind of stuff.
Got a female friend who is really into buying women miniatures specifically, has some of the Kingdom Death and more striking Bushido releases etc.
ArbitorIan wrote:
I look forward to the gaming community being as accepting of that as they are of this product. Don't be offended, gamers - dicks are totally natural and some people like nude models. If you don't like it just don't buy it...
Has already been done, although not as 'sexified' as these are. Gripping Beast beserkers for SAGA, actually the first models my friend bought for his army just because he found them amusing.
In fact, I think that's how a lot of people find these things, and how I would find naked-torso space marines with power cod pieces; Just as a bit of fun and there for people who want them, rather than something I felt the need to clamber up onto the morale high-ground about.
The demons for this release are more alluring and sexified than the crusaders. If two or more different sculptors were used on this release it would explain a lot. Especially when the crusaders are compared against their Warzone models.
Nostromodamus wrote: To appeal to all tastes, perhaps there needs to be a range of male crusaders with their codpieces removed and their old fella hanging out (protected by force field, naturally). Could work well for 40k too. It would certainly make it easier for Noise Marines to "honor Slaanesh" without that cumbersome armor in the way.
That's a BRILLIANT idea.
I propose a third version of Space Crusade, this time with male models whose torso and groin armour is removed, all with teen boyband pecs & abs and raging, oversized boners. Released to the internet in exactly the same way as this. Aimed at the same people. Coming to your local FLGS soon.
I look forward to the gaming community being as accepting of that as they are of this product. Don't be offended, gamers - dicks are totally natural and some people like nude models. If you don't like it just don't buy it...
So basically an updated GWAR boxed set instead of Space Crusade?
So is the bikini armor concept scrapped? If so thats a shame. I'd buy those over space marines with female heads. I have that option now.
I thought the models in the first post were super cool, different and fills a niche. No, I'm not a preteen or tween. I'm a grown man, veteran, married almost 20 years!
Don't lube to the squeaky wheels, the models on the first post will fly out of stock. Full power armor with female heads... wait, I can buy that now. Bikini armor however...
So is the bikini armor concept scrapped? If so thats a shame. I'd buy those over space marines with female heads. I have that option now.
I thought the models in the first post were super cool, different and fills a niche. No, I'm not a preteen or tween. I'm a grown man, veteran, married almost 20 years!
Don't lube to the squeaky wheels, the models on the first post will fly out of stock. Full power armor with female heads... wait, I can buy that now. Bikini armor however...
We have not scrapped anything, both lines 18+ and PG13 will be in parallel developed.
Sinful Hero wrote: Married men do as well. As do women. As a matter of fact, if you judge by her art prints my wife appreciates the female form more than I do!
Except this is the female form that, at least on the Reaper forums, the women prefer:
Spoiler:
Amusingly, Oathsworn Miniatures (and The Dice Bag Lady) have lines of "sensibly dressed women" which seem to be doing well. Oathsworn's KS pulled in nearly 50K for fully-clothed women.
Spoiler:
"Female form" doesn't mean "oversexualized". Still, if the wife prefers these Prodos miniatures, it's good to hear at least one woman does.
Honestly? This is garbage. You're doing a rush job on these "PG13" models and it shows. Scrap the whole mess, read some 101 guides to anatomy and human proportions, and start over from the beginning. And you should probably try to lose some of the clutter on the model, the overlapping plates are way too exaggerated.
Sinful Hero wrote: Married men do as well. As do women. As a matter of fact, if you judge by her art prints my wife appreciates the female form more than I do!
Except this is the female form that, at least on the Reaper forums, the women prefer:
Spoiler:
Amusingly, Oathsworn Miniatures (and The Dice Bag Lady) have lines of "sensibly dressed women" which seem to be doing well. Oathsworn's KS pulled in nearly 50K for fully-clothed women.
Spoiler:
"Female form" doesn't mean "oversexualized". Still, if the wife prefers these Prodos miniatures, it's good to hear at least one woman does.
Yeah, I got in on the Oathsworn Kickstarter. That Half-Orc has swagger down pat.
Honestly my wife's tastes range all over the place, from outright cheesecake to the more artsy "reclining nude". For her own sketches and artwork she prefers pinup girls and models like Stefania Ferrario.
I'm not too big on Prodos's take with the bikini bashers, and the better half rolled her eyes. Got a good friend(married) who's probably trying to figure out how to fit an order into his budget. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
...We have not scrapped anything, both lines 18+ and PG13 will be in parallel developed.
I'm compelled to express concern that this will divide y'alls attention. I heartily recommend going all in one direction or another.
Obviously (in case it's not obvious), my self-interest in Sisters of Battle proxies leads me to urge you for the more-armored PG-13 version.
But your pre-sales and fan feedback may be telling you to do the 18+. In which case don't risk under-developing that product with split attention and resources on a parallel production.
\shrug\ just some free advice from an old man. For what it's worth.
Peregrine wrote: Honestly? This is garbage. You're doing a rush job on these "PG13" models and it shows. Scrap the whole mess, read some 101 guides to anatomy and human proportions, and start over from the beginning. And you should probably try to lose some of the clutter on the model, the overlapping plates are way too exaggerated.
Honestly? That model has better proportions than most of the SM range. You hear anyone complaining? No, because rule of cool overwrites having thin thighs.
Ratius wrote: Thats pretty cool. Claw maybe a little oversized but good.
Thought that was a claw as well (and was a little intrigued with it), but I think that "claw" is a shield. You can see her left hand armored fingers just in front of the sash.
His Master's Voice wrote: Honestly? That model has better proportions than most of the SM range. You hear anyone complaining? No, because rule of cool overwrites having thin thighs.
Actually I do hear a lot of complaints about GW's models.
His Master's Voice wrote: Honestly? That model has better proportions than most of the SM range. You hear anyone complaining? .
Uh... yes? People constantly complain about the proportions of GW's models.
It's a style choice, but even within that exagerated style it's possible to take things to far. And, for my taste at least, having a waist that's thinner than your head just looks wrong, exagerated styling or no. Especially when you're factoring in heavy armour, which makes the actual human parts inside even thinner.
sing your life wrote: Hey, at least the motorbike sculpts themselves look very nice.
Agreed, I'd just hate to give them money for the bikes alone since it would encourage more of this sexist crap.
Well, wait then for Armoured version
and a quick update :
We are please to announce that due to huge amount of emails with request to make the Space Crusade more accessible to younger audience we will be also releasing PG13 version of the game, now in pre-order at shop.prodosgames.com. Please find attached 1st re-done for PG13 Heroine, Calypso and close ups of Demon miniatures that you will find in both versions of the game. If you have pre-ordered 19+ version, fear not, we will give you an option get PG13 instead. Stay tuned for next week update. Thanks.
I am a big fan of the Warzone Resurrection minis, but this is just horrid. It is just a shameless copying of 40k miniatures, with only distinguishing thing being that they are ridiculously sexualized and have oversized boobs. I really hope Prodos will stick to making more nice miniatures for Warzone instead, those are really nice. Prodos can produce really beautiful, great quality miniatures. Why not use that talent to make even more stuff for Warzone, an awesome and unique setting, rather than make a low-quality rip-off of the 40k style?
The armoured ones are better though, but still nothing more than pseudo-GW miniatures. And some of those daemon miniatures have merit for a Slaanesh army in 40k. Oh, and I agree with the bikes being really awesome.
Mr. Burning wrote: So. Now the Prodos webshop has updated Space cRusade from shipping after Feb 23rd to after June 2016.
The boxed game has always had a June release date. The individual models were the only ones that had a Feb release date and are still showing Feb release dates.
I could potentially see myself buying some of these now, but I'd want to hear that everyone has finally got their WarZone and AVP stuff first. Until that happens, I'd honestly sooner buy from recasters. (which is in itself unlikely).
Sinful Hero wrote: Married men do as well. As do women. As a matter of fact, if you judge by her art prints my wife appreciates the female form more than I do!
Except this is the female form that, at least on the Reaper forums, the women prefer:
Spoiler:
There - now that is a model that I like!
My good lady is of similar mind, but the one that I am getting for her is
Amusingly, Oathsworn Miniatures (and The Dice Bag Lady) have lines of "sensibly dressed women" which seem to be doing well. Oathsworn's KS pulled in nearly 50K for fully-clothed women.
You know, I'd like to make clear that I'm less concerned about 'accessible to a younger audience' and more concerned about 'gross and/or weird looking.' Which is all relative, but it's a bit irksome to see this hewing back to requests to please think of the children. Keep the gross, 18+ daemons, keep the weird-ass sexy-penitant-dread-thing. Pull back on the Liefeld-hipped size XL Dark Elf Wytches, and even then, only because they're, well, weird and gross looking.
sing your life wrote: Hey, at least the motorbike sculpts themselves look very nice.
Agreed, I'd just hate to give them money for the bikes alone since it would encourage more of this sexist crap.
Well, wait then for Armoured version
and a quick update :
We are please to announce that due to huge amount of emails with request to make the Space Crusade more accessible to younger audience we will be also releasing PG13 version of the game, now in pre-order at shop.prodosgames.com. Please find attached 1st re-done for PG13 Heroine, Calypso and close ups of Demon miniatures that you will find in both versions of the game. If you have pre-ordered 19+ version, fear not, we will give you an option get PG13 instead. Stay tuned for next week update. Thanks.
Well I'm disappointed. After removing live stocking from the entire site because it showed up the exaggeration of sales I fully expected to come back a few days later to pronouncements of world market domination at the very least.
Might as well have left the sales figures up if you weren't going to tell even bigger fibs
I shall have to make do with tales of just how many private messages and emails desperately asking for a PG13 version of this sexist dogshit have been sent.
(Oh and I appreciate the sharing of the demonwangs, we are happy to help even the score. We also have a couple of naked short bald guys, a naked chaos minotaur, a naked half ogre and there's a naked ogre on the way. Happy to help put a dent in the wang/boob ratio )
Completely off topic, but if you're the guy who made those Red-Box and Artemis Black sculpts (just going by your name here as my phone doesn't load up much else in view) then I have to say they are gorgeous.
Artemis Black wrote: Well I'm disappointed. After removing live stocking from the entire site because it showed up the exaggeration of sales I fully expected to come back a few days later to pronouncements of world market domination at the very least.
Might as well have left the sales figures up if you weren't going to tell even bigger fibs
I shall have to make do with tales of just how many private messages and emails desperately asking for a PG13 version of this sexist dogshit have been sent.
(Oh and I appreciate the sharing of the demonwangs, we are happy to help even the score. We also have a couple of naked short bald guys, a naked chaos minotaur, a naked half ogre and there's a naked ogre on the way. Happy to help put a dent in the wang/boob ratio )
Thanks for your comment, live stocking was removed because it's not working with back orders (pre-orders), as for sales on SC miniatures alone, excluding board game pre-orders + miniatures (being on the back-order): here is a screenshot, trending:
Frankly, I would actually expect a bit more professional comment from someone how is also producing and selling miniatures, especially on the sales bit...
Ha, the mod only jumps in when WR guy lightly defends himself, ah well.
Dunno about the game, one side gets ridiculous awesome space marines, the other gets melty demons ( the guo is cool tho ). Now SEXY demons, I could get behind that! That would probably get x2 the whining
If you think people are complaining about your models just because of tits then you haven't been reading.
Scouring the internet and posting pictures of other models with exposed breasts doesn't prove anything apart from you not understanding why your models are receiving such negative reactions.
Artemis Black wrote: Well I'm disappointed. After removing live stocking from the entire site because it showed up the exaggeration of sales I fully expected to come back a few days later to pronouncements of world market domination at the very least.
Might as well have left the sales figures up if you weren't going to tell even bigger fibs
I shall have to make do with tales of just how many private messages and emails desperately asking for a PG13 version of this sexist dogshit have been sent.
(Oh and I appreciate the sharing of the demonwangs, we are happy to help even the score. We also have a couple of naked short bald guys, a naked chaos minotaur, a naked half ogre and there's a naked ogre on the way. Happy to help put a dent in the wang/boob ratio )
Thanks for your comment, live stocking was removed because it's not working with back orders (pre-orders), as for sales on SC miniatures alone, excluding board game pre-orders + miniatures (being on the back-order): here is a screenshot, trending:
Frankly, I would actually expect a bit more professional comment from someone how is also producing and selling miniatures, especially on the sales bit...
Your use of the last two examples in particular just underlines your poor grasp of context and, frankly, quality.
I would really suggest getting a painter involved again. The coloured renders/masters are not doing you any favours, for this product or your War zone releases.
The Artemis sculptor is a different person to the Hasslefree sculpter. The two companies merged if I recall correctly.
Take a look at the beyond-awesome Viking etc lines under Artemis Black / Redbox. They're all heavily armoured or cloaked in animal furs etc. Theres a female druid who I desperately want for Frostgrave and a dwarf with a crossbow. None of them are naked iirc
(I'm not interested in this kerfuffle btw, I'm just excited because... vikings that look realistic yet heroic)
If you think people are complaining about your models just because of tits then you haven't been reading.
Scouring the internet and posting pictures of other models with exposed breasts doesn't prove anything apart from you not understanding why your models are receiving such negative reactions.
I think you are missing my point references are not just random models ... anyway, no point of having this discussion....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wulfmar wrote: The Artemis sculptor is a different person to the Hasslefree sculpter. The two companies merged if I recall correctly.
Take a look at the beyond-awesome Viking etc lines under Artemis Black / Redbox. They're all heavily armoured or cloaked in animal furs etc. Theres a female druid who I desperately want for Frostgrave and a dwarf with a crossbow. None of them are naked iirc
(I'm not interested in this kerfuffle btw, I'm just excited because... vikings that look realistic yet heroic)
I like some of their miniatures, but I don't think that it's professional to make a comments about sales (and make accusations) by someone who is in working in the industry and have a naked, only armed with shield model in his shop... sorry that is hypocritical in my opinion.
and personally, think than miniatures presented by us are more classy than completely naked miniature , armed just with shield/helmet and a sword ... but hey they are not touching sci-fi (ohh yeah 40k! )style so it must be totally OK! Right.
and personally, think than miniatures presented by us are more classy than completely naked miniature , armed just with shield/helmet and a sword ... but hey they are not touching sci-fi (ohh yeah 40k! )style so it must be totally OK! Right.
Thebiggesthat wrote: It's a strange situation for those of us missing kickstarter items from prodos.
I would like them to take this sexist trash and sink it along with their shoddy company.
But I would also like people to give them money so I get my stuff.
The ultimate salt in the wound, would be if people get SC box sets before all the AvP KS box sets are shipped out. Lets hope this doesn't become the case. Right now I'd be happy just to see the barebones AvP KS box set turn up at my door :(
Hey WarZone, are you able to tell us if any pre-sales of SC will actually assist with AvP KS shipping costs? The cat is already dead, curiosity can no longer kill it.
"Today, students, we'll be learning how to alienate our customer base. We'll start with grotesque sexualization, and then move on to blatant insults towards the competition."
Guildsman wrote: "Today, students, we'll be learning how to alienate our customer base. We'll start with grotesque sexualization, and then move on to blatant insults towards the competition."
What an absolute trainwreck.
Arti was banging that drum about web tracker sales being poor and implying they removed them to hide the lack of sales pretty hard. He was going to get a response sooner or later. If you're surprised by the lack of professionalism, welcome to Prodos
Hindsight would say posting the raw numbers alone would have been fine, but even then, he's got people like me asking where the f**k our AvP stuff is while they pay to produce gak like this. It's a lose lose for Prodos right now, wouldn't want to be the guy stuck with the job of managing "social media" around this product release.
Artemis Black wrote: Well I'm disappointed. After removing live stocking from the entire site because it showed up the exaggeration of sales I fully expected to come back a few days later to pronouncements of world market domination at the very least.
Might as well have left the sales figures up if you weren't going to tell even bigger fibs
I shall have to make do with tales of just how many private messages and emails desperately asking for a PG13 version of this sexist dogshit have been sent.
(Oh and I appreciate the sharing of the demonwangs, we are happy to help even the score. We also have a couple of naked short bald guys, a naked chaos minotaur, a naked half ogre and there's a naked ogre on the way. Happy to help put a dent in the wang/boob ratio )
I stayed out of this but I have to say I am deeply disappointed by Artemis yet again and from those that defend him in this page.
Like with fallen fronteerss, here, Artemis attacked yet another company that makes competing products with Hasslefee, he is an employ there and such behavior should not have been tolerated from the start, not attacking Prodos for replying.
To be entirely honest, I am amazed this has escalated here and in other forums so much, such sculpts are shown from many companies and are either brushed off to obscurity or have a comment or two, I am assuming its the well deserved bad blood Prodos has gained over APV and WZ (and a title name that means something only to the few of us that were alive when it was released) but still, it got way too much drama.
and personally, think than miniatures presented by us are more classy than completely naked miniature , armed just with shield/helmet and a sword ... but hey they are not touching sci-fi (ohh yeah 40k! )style so it must be totally OK! Right.
Hahahahaha.
That's an astonishing statement.
Regardless of what quality these minis is deemed to posses, I don't think even the people who appreciate the cheescake tit-marines enough to buy them would claim that they are anything close to the realm of being "classy".
I actually have a hard time recalling any miniature that I would consider less classy than the underboob terminators.
Guildsman wrote: "Today, students, we'll be learning how to alienate our customer base. We'll start with grotesque sexualization, and then move on to blatant insults towards the competition."
Artemis Black wrote: Well I'm disappointed. After removing live stocking from the entire site because it showed up the exaggeration of sales I fully expected to come back a few days later to pronouncements of world market domination at the very least.
Might as well have left the sales figures up if you weren't going to tell even bigger fibs
I shall have to make do with tales of just how many private messages and emails desperately asking for a PG13 version of this sexist dogshit have been sent.
(Oh and I appreciate the sharing of the demonwangs, we are happy to help even the score. We also have a couple of naked short bald guys, a naked chaos minotaur, a naked half ogre and there's a naked ogre on the way. Happy to help put a dent in the wang/boob ratio )
Thanks for your comment, live stocking was removed because it's not working with back orders (pre-orders), as for sales on SC miniatures alone, excluding board game pre-orders + miniatures (being on the back-order): here is a screenshot, trending:
Oh I'm absolutely sure it was removed for some other reason. The timing of it happening 'immediately' upon finding out that people can see how many sets of this you sold was just a huge coincidence.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: Frankly, I would actually expect a bit more professional comment from someone how is also producing and selling miniatures, especially on the sales bit...
Thanks for the advertising As others have pointed out, repeatedly, the problem isn't 'boobs'. You'e about 6 pages too late to point out we make miniatures that have breasts, in fact I pointed out that we sell fully naked miniatures so you missed quite a few there. We have a larger percentage than usual of female customers 'because' we sell realistic women, whether dressed or undressed. And yes, those female customers buy our unclothed women all the time.
The problem is that 'pinup' or 'nakedness' does not equal 'sexist dogshit'. Naked people exist, fantasy fighters who fought without protection exist.
You know what shouldn't exist? Female miniatures who go into battle with 700lbs of armour on their arms and legs but zero on their torsos 'just' to have boobs on a miniature. If you can't see the difference between that and us, or Kingdom Death, or other companies that make unclothed miniatures of any type then there's really no point in explaining it to you.
Your AvP miniatures are great, sidestepping the awful handling of the KS, the miniatures themselves are very good indeed. Warzone seems fine, not something I've ever been into but looks well made enough. 'This' is sexist dogshit that I'm embarrassed to have in the hobby.
People make badly sculpted minis every day, there's small companies out there making sexist minis too, I haven't spoken up in public like this about any of them. You''re a large company, with a lot of attention, good and bad, because of the AvP KS. You'v also tagged it onto the dubious trademark for extra attention. 'That' is something worth speaking out against.
I can't be arsed to make separate replies, so if someone has a problem with me expressing my opinion because I also work for a miniatures company then tough. I'm not padlocking my lips because of my job. This kind of sexist nonsense belongs in the past so that the hobby as a whole can move forward.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I guess "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" doesn't ring a bell.
You cannot be bothered to reply in legitimate comments? ok.
It does ring a bell, that's why my reply pointed out that Prodos and I live in completely different houses as far as this product is concerned. Should Kev ever have a stroke and sculpt something as sexist as this nonsense then I'll keep my stones to myself.
And I did reply, just all at once, I said I couldn't be bothered to reply individually to the same people who whinged when I called FF out for lying. It's the same reply to all of you, saves time and space. This thread is about a particular product not your grudge against me.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I guess "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" doesn't ring a bell.
You cannot be bothered to reply in legitimate comments? ok.
It does ring a bell, that's why my reply pointed out that Prodos and I live in completely different houses as far as this product is concerned. Should Kev ever have a stroke and sculpt something as sexist as this nonsense then I'll keep my stones to myself.
And I did reply, just all at once, I said I couldn't be bothered to reply individually to the same people who whinged when I called FF out for lying. It's the same reply to all of you, saves time and space. This thread is about a particular product not your grudge against me.
You sound really bent out of sorts that someone can't achieve your level of artistic tastefulness in their product line.
Artemis Black wrote: As others have pointed out, repeatedly, the problem isn't 'boobs'. You'e about 6 pages too late to point out we make miniatures that have breasts, in fact I pointed out that we sell fully naked miniatures so you missed quite a few there. We have a larger percentage than usual of female customers 'because' we sell realistic women, whether dressed or undressed. And yes, those female customers buy our unclothed women all the time.
The problem is that 'pinup' or 'nakedness' does not equal 'sexist dogshit'. Naked people exist, fantasy fighters who fought without protection exist.
You know what shouldn't exist? Female miniatures who go into battle with 700lbs of armour on their arms and legs but zero on their torsos 'just' to have boobs on a miniature. If you can't see the difference between that and us, or Kingdom Death, or other companies that make unclothed miniatures of any type then there's really no point in explaining it to you.
Your AvP miniatures are great, sidestepping the awful handling of the KS, the miniatures themselves are very good indeed. Warzone seems fine, not something I've ever been into but looks well made enough. 'This' is sexist dogshit that I'm embarrassed to have in the hobby.
People make badly sculpted minis every day, there's small companies out there making sexist minis too, I haven't spoken up in public like this about any of them. You''re a large company, with a lot of attention, good and bad, because of the AvP KS. You'v also tagged it onto the dubious trademark for extra attention. 'That' is something worth speaking out against.
I can't be arsed to make separate replies, so if someone has a problem with me expressing my opinion because I also work for a miniatures company then tough. I'm not padlocking my lips because of my job. This kind of sexist nonsense belongs in the past so that the hobby as a whole can move forward.
Exalted. Thanks for articulating very well what I was clumsily attempting to express a while back.
I'm also annoyed by Prodos' continued insistence that they're now clothing their models to 'protect the kiddies'. Nobody complaining about these is doing so because they're worried about kids buying them.
I am sorry but what constitutes a sexist sculpt and what constitutes nonsense is in the eye of the beholder, run many of HF sculpts on the "female armour bingo", of a well known site criticizing sexism in the gaming genre and you will get high scores indeed (if the sites view is right or wrong is debatable, but gives another perspective).
So no, I do not buy your line, ours are sexy theirs are sexist, they plunder well known IP we..... you what? many of HF sculpts blatantly use others IP.
You do not see me complain about either because I either don't care or like the end result, but I am expecting you to understand you have no moral high grounds in judging others for the things you and the company you represent do yourself.
ArbitorIan wrote: I'm also annoyed by Prodos' continued insistence that they're now clothing their models to 'protect the kiddies'. Nobody complaining about these is doing so because they're worried about kids buying them.
Yup. That's such obvious bs.
Why not say, "a lot of people didn't like the first minis so we'll be putting out a alternative line of more 'sensibly armoured' versions of the models"?
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am sorry but what constitutes a sexist sculpt and what constitutes nonsense is in the eye of the beholder, run many of HF sculpts on the "female armour bingo", of a well known site criticizing sexism in the gaming genre and you will get high scores indeed (if the sites view is right or wrong is debatable, but gives another perspective).
So no, I do not buy your line, ours are sexy theirs are sexist, they plunder well known IP we..... you what? many of HF sculpts blatantly use others IP.
You do not see me complain about either because I either don't care or like the end result, but I am expecting you to understand you have no moral high grounds in judging others for the things you and the company you represent do yourself.
I don't find our miniatures 'sexy', I don't find 'any' miniatures sexy. So that's definitely not 'my line' as you inaccurately put it. I also haven't mentioned them 'plundering IP' are you perhaps getting me mixed up with someone else?
You want to claim our miniatures as just as sexist as this then go ahead, nobody is stopping you, that's kind of the point. Someone makes sexist dogshit and puts it out in public they can expect people to come out and call it as it is. And boy has it happened here. I think 'moral high ground' is a little pretentious but giving me a dissenting opinion isn't going to miraculously make me change my mind about this project being sexist dogshit that embarrasses me and the hobby in general.
Now, as this thread is about this product not your personal grudge then perhaps we do the forum a favour and start a new thread if you really want to carry on talking about me personally or HF products, I might even reply. It's not like the internet is running out of room.
PsychoticStorm wrote: To be entirely honest, I am amazed this has escalated here and in other forums so much, such sculpts are shown from many companies and are either brushed off to obscurity or have a comment or two, I am assuming its the well deserved bad blood Prodos has gained over APV and WZ (and a title name that means something only to the few of us that were alive when it was released) but still, it got way too much drama.
You're amazed that a well-known company cynically exploiting an expired copyright... for a game a lot of people remember fondly from childhood... to peddle porn-40k crossover models... got a strong negative reaction?
You know what shouldn't exist? Female miniatures who go into battle with 700lbs of armour on their arms and legs but zero on their torsos 'just' to have boobs on a miniature. If you can't see the difference between that and us, or Kingdom Death, or other companies that make unclothed miniatures of any type then there's really no point in explaining it to you.
With this logic so should not exist fantasy female fighters with armour that would kill them if they moved, cannot be realistically attached on them or really have no point of been there.
I see no practical difference in your line and this (skill aside) for all terms and purposes for me you are a competitor dragging a rival down.
And I am expecting from people who represent companies to be professional in a public discussion.
Artemis Black wrote: Now, as this thread is about this product not your personal grudge then perhaps we do the forum a favour and start a new thread if you really want to carry on talking about me personally or HF products, I might even reply. It's not like the internet is running out of room.
Do you find it funny that the whole tangent started because you took a dig at Prodos over something not related to the product itself?
PsychoticStorm wrote: To be entirely honest, I am amazed this has escalated here and in other forums so much, such sculpts are shown from many companies and are either brushed off to obscurity or have a comment or two, I am assuming its the well deserved bad blood Prodos has gained over APV and WZ (and a title name that means something only to the few of us that were alive when it was released) but still, it got way too much drama.
You're amazed that a well-known company cynically exploiting an expired copyright... for a game a lot of people remember fondly from childhood... to peddle porn-40k crossover models... got a strong negative reaction?
Amazed.
'Kay.
I honestly do not expect to be that many of us left that "fondly remember Space Crusade" its what? 25 years dead?, I said I think this name means almost nothing to most of the buyers base and I do not see than much comment on the Space Crusade part.
My amazement is it got that much comments for the sculpts, seen many such sculpts been advertised or mentioned here and in other forums or news sites and they do not get that many comments really.
The problem is that 'pinup' or 'nakedness' does not equal 'sexist dogshit'. Naked people exist, fantasy fighters who fought without protection exist.
You know what shouldn't exist? Female miniatures who go into battle with 700lbs of armour on their arms and legs but zero on their torsos 'just' to have boobs on a miniature. If you can't see the difference between that and us, or Kingdom Death, or other companies that make unclothed miniatures of any type then there's really no point in explaining it to you.
In regards to the bolded part, really? So half naked fantasy models exist, but half naked Sci-Fi is sexist doggak? That hole in that logic is large enough to no longer be considered a hole at all.
You really seem to think that a different aesthetic from yours is sexist doggak. I hate to break it to you, but to most people outside of this industry, it sounds like you're arguing the difference between the nude photos in playboy vs the nude photos in hustler. "Well, yes, our photos are nude, but they are tastefully nude. Those nudes, those are just pornography, you can't even compare them!"
Most of the world just sees the pot speaking down to the kettle.
Well, as fun as this all is. Anyone else reminded of Nigels mother in the film 'Brain Dead' towards the end when she tries to consume him with that horrific 'come to mummy Nigel' line when they see the Daemons with the mouth running down their belly?
Obscure B movie reference I know (same director as LOTR believe it or not). I wonder if the sculptor had been inspired by it
Everyone's a winner!
Everyone except Alien Justice Workers, they've been fighting the man, and trying to bring to life the injustice wrought upon the poor alien species who are just trying to survive in a universe filled with gun totting humans, especially the half naked chicks with awkward tits 
