Goliath Rockgrinder
Selections: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
HQ
Magus
Selections: Power: Mass Hypnosis
Patriarch
Selections: Power: Might From Beyond
Primus
Selections: Bonesword
Elites
Aberrants
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
Aberrant
Selections: Power Hammer
The idea is to have the 3 Russ's be a gunline to destroy multi-wounded T7 or lower models.
Primus Ambushes w/ the 8 Aberrants for better deployment and then have Magus and the Iconward to deploy as close to them as possible. This will be my main CC threat at either S12 AP -3 D 3 2 A per model or S14 Ap -3 D 3 3 A per model depending on what I cast on them or if i cast anything at all.
Genestealers will ambush with the Patriarch as my main T4 or lower infantry type unit killer with over 100 attacks (buffed by Might from Beyond) it should be enough to clear anything they fight.
3 unit of Neos will Cult Ambush to make use of the shotguns +1 if within 6".
Acos will go inside the Rockgrinder to make use of the charges otherwise I could drop them and the charges and just use the Rockgrinder to charge enemy units.
3 units of lasgun troops will just sit back and stop me from being tabled (hopefully).
Anything you guys would change in this list? Cheers
mugginns wrote:Does anyone have any good examples of how to use Focus of Adoration (the new Chapter Approved Warlord Trait)? I'm struggling to figure out where we'd use it.
Rajah wrote:Sorry, has this been addressed yet: Can you use the back to the shadows stratagem in turn 4 and then re-deploy in turn 5? The basic rules say that any unit not on the table by the end of turn 3 is considered destroyed. Does this mean I cannot take a unit back into ambush beginning of Turn 4?
Might be something for YMDC, but my first inclination reading over the rules is that Return to Shadows should still work after turn 3. The introduction to the Tactical Reinforcements rule specifically refers to units that have been "set up" elsewhere during deployment while Return to Shadows doesn't "set up" a unit, it removes one from the table and returns it to the battlefield the following turn. Mawlocs and Swooping Hawks have similar redeployment rules so I'll skim the FAQs and see if they had any mentions for use as precedent.
Any luck on finding this? I couldn't find anything in my searching, and I am too new to the game to have a confident interpretation of this rule.
Odrankt wrote:
Anything you guys would change in this list? Cheers
1. Might want to consider the Heavy Seismic Cannon for your Rockgrinder in place of the Clearance Incinerator. The weapon's close range profile matches up the Demolition Charges perfectly and thanks to Chapter Approved the Heavy Seismic Cannon is cheaper than the Incinerator, so it will help offset some of the cost of the charges. The Shotgun Neophytes might also benefit from some Grenade Launchers or Flamers for more volume of fire, but not strictly necessary.
2. The Acolyte Squad really wants some special weapons, either Demolition Charges or Rock Saws. Small Acolyte units generally act as fire and forget missiles, with their weapons allowing them to threaten big targets. Demolition Charges are disposable and cheap alpha strike tools while the Rock Saws are mildly more expensive but can be used repeatedly if the squad survives.
3. I don't have my AM book handy at the moment, but if I remember correctly tank commanders cannot issue orders to infantry units and cannot receive orders from other tank commanders. As such I don't think the Laurels of Command will do anything for you. Also if I remember correctly, the Icon of the Cult ascendant can only be used if the Warlord is from the GSC faction, as there currently isn't a stratagem to unlock additional GSC relics like Tyranids and Astra Militarum have.
Apart from those looks like a solid start.
Rajah wrote:
Any luck on finding this? I couldn't find anything in my searching, and I am too new to the game to have a confident interpretation of this rule.
Didn't find anything in the FAQ's sadly. I'll see about sending GW an email asking for clarification and spending some time picking through the rulebooks tomorrow while I am off.
mugginns wrote:Does anyone have any good examples of how to use Focus of Adoration (the new Chapter Approved Warlord Trait)? I'm struggling to figure out where we'd use it.
Rajah wrote:Sorry, has this been addressed yet: Can you use the back to the shadows stratagem in turn 4 and then re-deploy in turn 5? The basic rules say that any unit not on the table by the end of turn 3 is considered destroyed. Does this mean I cannot take a unit back into ambush beginning of Turn 4?
Might be something for YMDC, but my first inclination reading over the rules is that Return to Shadows should still work after turn 3. The introduction to the Tactical Reinforcements rule specifically refers to units that have been "set up" elsewhere during deployment while Return to Shadows doesn't "set up" a unit, it removes one from the table and returns it to the battlefield the following turn. Mawlocs and Swooping Hawks have similar redeployment rules so I'll skim the FAQs and see if they had any mentions for use as precedent.
Any luck on finding this? I couldn't find anything in my searching, and I am too new to the game to have a confident interpretation of this rule.
Yes you should be able to return from the shadows after turn 3 woth out killing the squad. Using the swooping hawks ruling
Q: If, in a matched play game, I use the Swooping Hawk’s
Skyleap ability to remove the unit from the battlefield during the
third or subsequent battle round, does the Tactical Reserves rule
mean they count as destroyed?
A: No. The unit must already have arrived on the
battlefield before the end of the third battle round in
order to be able to use the Skyleap ability.
However, if the unit used its Children of Baharroth
ability to set up in the skies during deployment, and it
had not arrived by the end of third battle round, then it
would count as destroyed in a matched play game due to
the Tactical Reserves rule.
It's not the same you it or exact rule, but it shows how the tactical reserves rules works, and it seems to only work specifically for units put in reserves at the start of the game, and who haven't arrived yet. It does not effect units that leave again for some other reason.
Aberrants. Hammers or Picks and mixed squads or one or other. Also what is max unit size? I don't have the book as I don't plan on playing them yet, but they are coming up in my list of things to get ready.
Thank you! That is a huge help. I thought I had picked through the FAQ's with a fine tooth comb, but apparently not.
mightymconeshot wrote:Question for you guys.
Aberrants. Hammers or Picks and mixed squads or one or other. Also what is max unit size? I don't have the book as I don't plan on playing them yet, but they are coming up in my list of things to get ready.
Hammers are broadly speaking the best weapon since they fill a role that cannot easily be filled elsewhere. Mixed squads are ok with Picks providing cheaper ablative wounds and slightly better performance against heavy infantry. Max squad size is currently 8 models, though if they get a kit with the codex that number might change.
I don't have my AM book handy at the moment, but if I remember correctly tank commanders cannot issue orders to infantry units and cannot receive orders from other tank commanders. As such I don't think the Laurels of Command will do anything for you. Also if I remember correctly, the Icon of the Cult ascendant can only be used if the Warlord is from the GSC faction, as there currently isn't a stratagem to unlock additional GSC relics like Tyranids and Astra Militarum have.
Thank you for the tips! Currently re-working the list a small bit and thought I'd ask if you have your AM book so see if any of those issue you mentioned actually take place? I would happily take the Iconward as my Warlord if it means taking the relic. Only using the Tanks as my Warlord to re-gain the CP on a 5+. I also only want to issue commands between the Tanks and not so much the Infantry.
Thank you for the tips! Currently re-working the list a small bit and thought I'd ask if you have your AM book so see if any of those issue you mentioned actually take place?
Checked it. Looks like I was mistaken regarding the Tank Commanders not being able to order each other (might have been thinking of the prior edition book) but was correct that they can only issue orders to Russes. Also, it looks like the Laurels of Command will be a bit wasted as the Tank Commanders only have 3 orders to choose from and of those one is once per game and the other two are mutually exclusive (one is move instead of shoot and the other is rerolls while shooting).
Also the Acolyte Iconward does not have to be the Warlord to carry the banner, just the Warlord needs to be a GSC model to enable it. Hope that helps!
My favorite AM detachment is an air drop vanguard.
2 company commanders
2 Plasma Special Weapon Squads
2 Plasma Company Command Squads
2 Astropats
2 Valkyries
Everything deploys in the valks (1 of each per). The valks in i remember coorectly can be deployed together. That gives you 10 GSC units you can deepstrike in. You also won't be tabled turn one you just gotta make sure you eventualy get stuff on thetable.
Also to protect your deep srikes you could drop the astropaths or for ratlings, to keep rom getting coutner deep striked on.
Thank you for the tips! Currently re-working the list a small bit and thought I'd ask if you have your AM book so see if any of those issue you mentioned actually take place?
Checked it. Looks like I was mistaken regarding the Tank Commanders not being able to order each other (might have been thinking of the prior edition book) but was correct that they can only issue orders to Russes. Also, it looks like the Laurels of Command will be a bit wasted as the Tank Commanders only have 3 orders to choose from and of those one is once per game and the other two are mutually exclusive (one is move instead of shoot and the other is rerolls while shooting).
Also the Acolyte Iconward does not have to be the Warlord to carry the banner, just the Warlord needs to be a GSC model to enable it. Hope that helps!
Basically dropped a Tank Commander, Unit of Abberants, Primus Acolyte unit and Rockgrinder .
Buffed all the Neos to 7 Shotguns and 2 flamers, Infantry squad all run 1 Gnade launcher.
Added 3 units of Ratlings 2 8 man and 1 7 man to target enemy characters as I didn't realise i lacked that option.
Brought in a Banehammer to take over the Abberants goal e.g. BH's QC is 2d6 14 -4 D D6 (1-2's damage rolls become minimum 3) vs full unit of AB w/ Hammers buffed by Relic is 16 hits at 12 -3 D 3. Plus, it is a good bit tougher, better save and more wounds.
Idea for this list is to have both Tanks Commanders to give them re-roll 1s for shooting on a 4+.
BHammer is basically to kill Anything with Toughness 8 or above and to be a distraction carnifex.
Using your above info for the Neos w/ flamers and Infantry w/ Gnade launchers.
Gstealers will have Might from Beyond casted on them for +1 A and S (S5 100 attacks) by the Patriarch and Magus uses Mass Hypnosis to make sure they dont get over-watched in the charge phase.
Heres my dilemma though. Is it worth giving the Iconward the relic to make the Gstealers S6 instead of S5? I mainly want to use him for his 6+ FnP but not sure if taking the relic is worth a CP. Your thoughts lads? Thanks so far for the help.
What do you guys think of building a 1500 points brigade detachment? Those 9 CP for redeploying can be quite a thing, but it severely limits unit strength (and there is no points left for russes)
Thought about something like this one:
Spoiler:
HQ Acolyte Iconward; Icon of the Cult Ascendant [53pts]
Magus; Power: Mass Hypnosis [73pts]
Primus; Warlord, Warlord Trait: Focus of Adoration [76pts]
Heavy Support Goliath Rockgrinder; Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator [136pts]
Goliath Rockgrinder; Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator [136pts]
Goliath Rockgrinder; Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator [136pts]
Metamorphs are interchangible with purestrains, though. Alpha strike is crippled due to little numbers in squads, but delaying the ambushes for a few turns of rockgrinders/scouts fire is a viable tactic for me. And those neophytes may hop around carelessly with 12 CP, as well as army can react to deep striking squads if army get to stretched (and oh boy, it probably will)
Niiai wrote:There has been some time since CA came out. How are the cultists now?
GSC feels like they are in a fairly good spot right now, especially compared to most of the other index armies. The cost tweaks made several options more competitive (Aberrants being the stand-outs) and the two stratagems both are a huge boon for ambush tactics.
If I were to rank them, I'd probably put GSC near the top of the indexes as far as competitive capabilities and near the middle of the pack overall.
Vexler wrote:What do you guys think of building a 1500 points brigade detachment? Those 9 CP for redeploying can be quite a thing, but it severely limits unit strength (and there is no points left for russes) Thought about something like this one:
I'm not sure if 12 command points are entirely needed at 1500 points. I like the general idea of the list though, main issue is just how relatively thin the units are as you noted. I'd probably drop the Cult Icon from the Metamorphs as they are a bit too expensive for small units (4 points per fellow at five strong vs 2 points per fellow at 10 strong). Might also want to swap the Multi Lasers for Heavy Flamers (cheaper if I remember right) so the Sentinels can move and fire at full effect for tying up opposing units.
Give it a go and report back to us. I'd be curious to hear how it does.
Odrankt wrote: Added 3 units of Ratlings 2 8 man and 1 7 man to target enemy characters as I didn't realise i lacked that option.
Not been too impressed with Ratlings in my encounters with them. One of our local guard players includes a unit in virtually every game and they tend to bounce harmlessly off whatever they fire at. They are speedy little hobbits with their shoot and scoot rule though...
Odrankt wrote: Brought in a Banehammer to take over the Abberants goal e.g. BH's QC is 2d6 14 -4 D D6 (1-2's damage rolls become minimum 3) vs full unit of AB w/ Hammers buffed by Relic is 16 hits at 12 -3 D 3. Plus, it is a good bit tougher, better save and more wounds.
Should be a fair substitution, though keep in mind one of the advantages the Abberrants have is that they can hide in ambush off table until you are ready to deploy them while the Banehammer has to start on the table and is a very tempting target for an alpha strike. The Aberrants are also easier to hide and slightly more accurate with a Primus around (hitting on 3's vs 4's or worse depending on damage table).
Odrankt wrote: Heres my dilemma though. Is it worth giving the Iconward the relic to make the Gstealers S6 instead of S5? I mainly want to use him for his 6+ FnP but not sure if taking the relic is worth a CP. Your thoughts lads? Thanks so far for the help.
Probably something to experiment with and see for yourself. In terms of math S6 helps against T3 (wounding on a 2+ vs 3+), T5 (wounding on a 3+ vs 4+), T6 (wounding on a 4+ vs 5+), and a hypothetical T10 (wounding on a 5+). With the amount of attacks you have though, they probably won't require the extra strength to eviscerate most troops and light vehicles.
Also remember the moral reroll ability on the Iconward. I usually have mine follow Neophytes around as insurance against bad moral rolls (though granted, they need to take a lot of casualties before moral becomes problematic).
Not been too impressed with Ratlings in my encounters with them. One of our local guard players includes a unit in virtually every game and they tend to bounce harmlessly off whatever they fire at. They are speedy little hobbits with their shoot and scoot rule though...
I know that feeling. It's worse when models that cost 20pts (Necron Deathmarks) bounce Everything they shoot... They are a cheap sniper unit so I am not losing that much of an investment. Better to have snippers then hsve none.
Should be a fair substitution, though keep in mind one of the advantages the Abberrants have is that they can hide in ambush off table until you are ready to deploy them while the Banehammer has to start on the table and is a very tempting target for an alpha strike. The Aberrants are also easier to hide and slightly more accurate with a Primus around (hitting on 3's vs 4's or worse depending on damage table).
The real difference is one is a Singular Gun Line that Destroys nearly everything but it's 50% chance to hit it's 2d6 shots is very swingy. Aberrants need to be buffed to make them any way defensive otherwise they are pretty squishy after they do there attacks. Acolyte Iconward producing 6+ FnP and +1 w/ relic us probably the best 53pt invest you could make for the Aberrants besides a Primus for +1 to hit. They can also re-cult ambush for 1 CP.
Probably something to experiment with and see for yourself. In terms of math S6 helps against T3 (wounding on a 2+ vs 3+), T5 (wounding on a 3+ vs 4+), T6 (wounding on a 4+ vs 5+), and a hypothetical T10 (wounding on a 5+). With the amount of attacks you have though, they probably won't require the extra strength to eviscerate most troops and light vehicles.
Also remember the moral reroll ability on the Iconward. I usually have mine follow Neophytes around as insurance against bad moral rolls (though granted, they need to take a lot of casualties before moral becomes problematic).
I used a website called www.dice-hammer.com and when comparing the +1 S on a Genestealers unit (S5 vs S6) the difference in wounds was only about 5 e.g. T4 S3 took 30 wounds vs S6 and it was 25 wounds vs S 5. However, it does depend on the to hit and the to wound rolls as well as getting 3+ instead of 4+ is better or 2+ vs 3+ etc. I would say that S5 Genestealers is enough if they produce 100 attacks but having them at S6 is just to make sure they kill Everything they touch while getting a 6+ FnP.
Also, nice idea for the Neophytes! Didn't think of giving them the 6+ FnP via Acolyte Iconward. I was mainly using them as a cheap tax unit to fill requirements but I guess I could make them pretty deadly vs T4 or less and quite resilient all for 53pts. Spamming Iconward is probably the way to go.
The only issue with the Iconward is that it's models w/in 6" not units. So to maximize efficiently you need to clump up, which is fine unless you're supposed to be bubble wrapping and/or area denying, then it's counter productive. Depends on your list I guess.
Fair point, whilst the 6+ FnP is for infantry models within 6" you can still prove +1 Strength and re-roll morale per unit within 6" so still not a bad idea to have them for morale rolls.
Are we able to mix Genestealers/Tyranids/Astra Militarum together? E.g. Battalion Detach of GSC and AM and then a Patrol Detach for Tyranids? Just wondering if that is possible as it would add a lot to our armies capabilities.
Fenris-77 wrote: The only issue with the Iconward is that it's models w/in 6" not units. So to maximize efficiently you need to clump up, which is fine unless you're supposed to be bubble wrapping and/or area denying, then it's counter productive. Depends on your list I guess.
Embarrassed to say, I never noticed that... Still, it should be possible to spread out a bit and still benefit by allocating hits to the models closest to the Iconward first. The Iconward is small enough he can wedge himself amidst the unit too in order to get more coverage.
Are we able to mix Genestealers/Tyranids/Astra Militarum together? E.g. Battalion Detach of GSC and AM and then a Patrol Detach for Tyranids? Just wondering if that is possible as it would add a lot to our armies capabilities.
Fenris-77 wrote: The only issue with the Iconward is that it's models w/in 6" not units. So to maximize efficiently you need to clump up, which is fine unless you're supposed to be bubble wrapping and/or area denying, then it's counter productive. Depends on your list I guess.
Embarrassed to say, I never noticed that... Still, it should be possible to spread out a bit and still benefit by allocating hits to the models closest to the Iconward first. The Iconward is small enough he can wedge himself amidst the unit too in order to get more coverage.
Are we able to mix Genestealers/Tyranids/Astra Militarum together? E.g. Battalion Detach of GSC and AM and then a Patrol Detach for Tyranids? Just wondering if that is possible as it would add a lot to our armies capabilities.
Yes, with the FAQ specifically confirming it.
I am officially happy I picked GSC as my Escalation League army for a Yearly Tournament.
How does it affect Codices, battle-forged armies and Stratagems? If using GSC/AM then the Regiment is Brooder Brothers does that mean I could run my Nids as Kraken and have GSC/AM as Brood brothers and use nid Stratagems on the Nids Detachment? My mind in blown right now. Never seen an army that can borrow from 2 different armies
If using GSC/AM then the Regiment is Brooder Brothers does that mean I could run my Nids as Kraken and have GSC/AM as Brood brothers and use nid Stratagems on the Nids Detachment? My mind in blown right now. Never seen an army that can borrow from 2 different armies
Yes. Each detachment is their own self contained force with their faction's stratagems. You just ignore the guard units when selecting your overall faction (meaning you can't bring other Imperial forces along with the cultists and their alien masters) and can only take 1 AM detachment for each GSC detachment.
Sorry if this question was answered, but, are we sure that tyanids stratagems dont affect GCs units?
The faq said that genestealer cults cannot make use of the rules. But a friend (Tournament player) has told me that it refers to not winning the rules (stratagems, items. spells..) for take a mix or a pure genestealer cult detachament. That if we take a tyranid (hive fleet) detachament we win the stratagems, and there is no rule that says a stratagem can't affect to a genestealer cult.
Unfortunately there isn't really any ambiguity with the Tyranid FAQ, as one of the additions was a clarification that all instances of "Tyranids Unit" in stratagems, warlord traits, and psychic powers equals "Tyranids unit with <Hive Fleet> keyword". No GSC models have the <Hive Fleet> keyword, so aren't eligible targets. In order for stratagems to target units out of faction, they have to match the targeting keywords. An earlier FAQ gave an example of Death Guard Cultists being able to benefit from the Chaos Space Marine Tide of Traitors stratagem because it targets a friendly Chaos Cultist unit, not a <Legion> Chaos Cultist unit.
Tyranids are still great allies for the Genestealer Cults though if aiming for a more aggressive approach. Lots of fast units in the army that can tie up guns so ambushers can go to work without getting shot up.
Anyone try Bullgryns or Crusaders with GSC / AM? They make for great centerline defenders with their 2+/4++ and 3++. They can be pretty offensive in Valkyries too. AM psykers can also give them a 2++ / 3++ invuln.
I kind of want to try an Valkyrie with 2 special weapon squads with 3 demo charges each (for a total of 39 points per unit.. lol). The AM stratagem allows you to throw all grenades in a unit (all 3 demo charges at once). They could really help abberants or acolytes finish off vehicles. 6 demo charges you can put wherever you want for 220 points.
I've been working on this list and have landed here. Thanks for your time in reading it and commenting, it's very helpful to me.
GSC 1999 points. 8 CPs
Spoiler:
GSC Battalion HQ Primus (Ambush w/Genestealers)
Primus (Ambush w/Aberrants)
TROOPS Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
ELITES Aberrants x6: Power Hammer x6
Purestrain Genestealers x19
HEAVY SUPPORT Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
GSC Supreme Command Detchment Magus: Mass Hypnosis (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
Magus: Mind Control
Magus: Might from Beyond (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
AM Outrider Detachment HQ Tank Commander: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Lascannon, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
Company Commander (basic)
HEAVY SUPPORT Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
I've tried to create a good balance between ranged punch that can stand up to an opening salvo of fire turn one and close-combat units that can get where they need to be.
I went with the 3 Magus detachment over buying Neurothrope models as I'm hesitant to spend $80 CAD for units that might get heavily nerfed with the possible new Smite rules. The Magus casts less powers and are weaker so it's a bit of a shame. I'd like a 3rd unit of Neophytes to body-guard that last Magus but can't figure out a way. These guys are all support all the time. They buff, harass, die and hold objectives.
The Acolytes in Rockgrinders rush up the board to provide some forward pressure while the ambushers come in. They play a flexible roll against characters or tanks. A Primus can show-up to buff them. I'm assuming the ambushers are coming in a bit slower because I really want to make use of our new strategem paired with the Primus(es?) to ensure the heavy hitters land where and when I want them.
The Heavy Weapons team and Company Commander are primarily there as a screen for the Tank Commander. They can do some damage to hoards on their own though so can be deployed as a separate unit if required.
The Sentinels and Tank Commander are my long-range anti-armour weapons. The Sentinels can be sacrificed to tie up ground and draw fire. I'm SO tempted to drop them all out for 3x Power Lifters at 45 points each given the AM stratagem that gives them move, advance and charge AND hit on 2's. I chose the Tank Commander as my Warlord to essentially double my CPs. I intend to use many of them
I'm wondering if I've missed anything? Any units that could do jobs better than what I've chosen?
Caspian89 wrote: I've been working on this list and have landed here. Thanks for your time in reading it and commenting, it's very helpful to me.
GSC 1999 points. 8 CPs
Spoiler:
GSC Battalion HQ Primus (Ambush w/Genestealers)
Primus (Ambush w/Aberrants)
TROOPS Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
ELITES Aberrants x6: Power Hammer x6
Purestrain Genestealers x19
HEAVY SUPPORT Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
GSC Supreme Command Detchment Magus: Mass Hypnosis (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
Magus: Mind Control
Magus: Might from Beyond (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
AM Outrider Detachment HQ Tank Commander: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Lascannon, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
Company Commander (basic)
HEAVY SUPPORT Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
First thing, in order to be able to use Cache of Demo charges on the Rockgrinders the units inside need to have demo charges. Heavy Seismic Cannon synergize better with the Cache of demo charges and are cheaper than Clearance Incinerators.
You could drop 1 Acolytes so your lone Mangus could hitch a ride.
Lascannon HWT with orders or fitting in 3 Tank commanders would do much better than 3 Armoured Sentinels with Lascannons... Sentinels are not really that good and can die very fast.
If you take a Supreme Command Detachment with 3 Tank Commanders with lascannons thats 627 points. ~100 off from your outrider detachment, but SOOOO much more firepower. You need some Neophytes bubble wrap for them though.
Caspian89 wrote: I've been working on this list and have landed here. Thanks for your time in reading it and commenting, it's very helpful to me.
GSC 1999 points. 8 CPs
Spoiler:
GSC Battalion HQ Primus (Ambush w/Genestealers)
Primus (Ambush w/Aberrants)
TROOPS Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
ELITES Aberrants x6: Power Hammer x6
Purestrain Genestealers x19
HEAVY SUPPORT Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
GSC Supreme Command Detchment Magus: Mass Hypnosis (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
Magus: Mind Control
Magus: Might from Beyond (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
AM Outrider Detachment HQ Tank Commander: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Lascannon, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
Company Commander (basic)
HEAVY SUPPORT Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
I would drop an Acolyte unit cause you only need 3 Troops and put those points to buff your units. You also have Genestealers and Hammer Abberants so not like your lacking in CC. If you want to produce Mortal wounds why not use a Tyranid Detachment and bring some Biovores?
You might as well drop a Primus and Magus for Patriarch because they basically cost the same ( Magus + Primus = 149, Patriarch = 150) and the Patriarch gives both +1 to hit and can cast a power. Also, no Acolyte Iconward? You should really field 1 of these guys to at least give your Aberrants 6+ FnP and +1 S via the relic.
I would swap the Gnade launcher for a Missle Launcher on the Neophytes. Better range and better stats overall. Is a bit more expensive though.
You could Supreme Command the AM Detach to get 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannon instead of bringing Sentinels and heavy weapons squad?
Caspian89 wrote: I've been working on this list and have landed here. Thanks for your time in reading it and commenting, it's very helpful to me.
GSC 1999 points. 8 CPs
Spoiler:
GSC Battalion HQ Primus (Ambush w/Genestealers)
Primus (Ambush w/Aberrants)
TROOPS Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Acolytes x6: Heavy Rock Saw x2 (Transported in Rockgrinder)
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
Neophytes x10: Autoguns, Grenade Launcher x2, Siesmic Cannon x2
ELITES Aberrants x6: Power Hammer x6
Purestrain Genestealers x19
HEAVY SUPPORT Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
Goliath Rockgrinder: Cache of Demolition Charges, Clearance Incinerator, Heavy Stubber
GSC Supreme Command Detchment Magus: Mass Hypnosis (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
Magus: Mind Control
Magus: Might from Beyond (Ambush with Neophyte back-up)
AM Outrider Detachment HQ Tank Commander: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Lascannon, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
Company Commander (basic)
HEAVY SUPPORT Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy bolter x3
I would drop an Acolyte unit cause you only need 3 Troops and put those points to buff your units. You also have Genestealers and Hammer Abberants so not like your lacking in CC. If you want to produce Mortal wounds why not use a Tyranid Detachment and bring some Biovores?
You might as well drop a Primus and Magus for Patriarch because they basically cost the same ( Magus + Primus = 149, Patriarch = 150) and the Patriarch gives both +1 to hit and can cast a power. Also, no Acolyte Iconward? You should really field 1 of these guys to at least give your Aberrants 6+ FnP and +1 S via the relic.
I would swap the Gnade launcher for a Missle Launcher on the Neophytes. Better range and better stats overall. Is a bit more expensive though.
You could Supreme Command the AM Detach to get 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannon instead of bringing Sentinels and heavy weapons squad?
Aberrants
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
Niiai wrote: Can cultists use AM transports, like the airplane?
Sadly no. They can't even use normal transport of AM, it has to be GSC Chimera due to wording saying AM Infantry, and Regiment. Normal cultists lack both keywords.
Niiai wrote: But I am looking into adding more to my tyranids. I am having a hard time thinking what that should be. What do they have that nids don't have?
Not a whole lot,
Abberants
Acolytes
Both with good AP and a good method (primus + stratagem) to get into CC.
GSC has some good pysker abilities, mass hypnosis could really help Tyranids melee wise.
GSC can take some good ranged anti tank with better AP than Tyranid weapons, although they don't really have a good platform for lascannons or preventing mining lasers from moving (BS 5+).
GSC allows you to take guard with tyranids, but that generally limits you on Tyranids you can take.
I want to try out taking 2 primus and a 10-15 of purestrain genestealers and 4-6 abberants with a Kraken tyranid army. Genestealers from GSC and Tyranids could get nasty alpha strike turn 1, then abberants can come in turn 2 close to vehicles. Hard to find a detachment to fill this with though....
I don't think I'd take GSC with a shooty tyranid army. Maybe a Battalion detachment with Neophytes? but meh... A Acolyte Iconward, a Magus and 3 Neophyte units would give you 5 Deny the witch attempts (if they're all together), mass hypnosis or mind control, 30 5+/6++ humans and options for heavy weapons / anti tank weapons.
That actually may not be bad for a ranged tyranid army:
Battalion (~360 points)
HQ Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Troops
3x Neophyte Hybrids with lascannon HWT or 2 mining lasers. (grenade launchers too if you want)
This might be asking a lot. But the hammerants with a primus using the stratgem, as well as a potensial re-roll in the psykick phase and charge phase. What are the chances that they both make it into charging a unit? Has anybody done the math?
Niiai wrote: But I am looking into adding more to my tyranids. I am having a hard time thinking what that should be. What do they have that nids don't have?
Not a whole lot,
Abberants
Acolytes
Both with good AP and a good method (primus + stratagem) to get into CC.
GSC has some good pysker abilities, mass hypnosis could really help Tyranids melee wise.
GSC can take some good ranged anti tank with better AP than Tyranid weapons, although they don't really have a good platform for lascannons or preventing mining lasers from moving (BS 5+).
GSC allows you to take guard with tyranids, but that generally limits you on Tyranids you can take.
I want to try out taking 2 primus and a 10-15 of purestrain genestealers and 4-6 abberants with a Kraken tyranid army. Genestealers from GSC and Tyranids could get nasty alpha strike turn 1, then abberants can come in turn 2 close to vehicles. Hard to find a detachment to fill this with though....
I don't think I'd take GSC with a shooty tyranid army. Maybe a Battalion detachment with Neophytes? but meh... A Acolyte Iconward, a Magus and 3 Neophyte units would give you 5 Deny the witch attempts (if they're all together), mass hypnosis or mind control, 30 5+/6++ humans and options for heavy weapons / anti tank weapons.
That actually may not be bad for a ranged tyranid army:
Battalion (~360 points)
HQ Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Troops
3x Neophyte Hybrids with lascannon HWT or 2 mining lasers. (grenade launchers too if you want)
Use a Supreme Command Detachment to bring 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannon. That comes to 627pts which give you 1373pt to use on GSC and Tyranids Detachments.
Niiai wrote: But I am looking into adding more to my tyranids. I am having a hard time thinking what that should be. What do they have that nids don't have?
Not a whole lot,
Abberants
Acolytes
Both with good AP and a good method (primus + stratagem) to get into CC.
GSC has some good pysker abilities, mass hypnosis could really help Tyranids melee wise.
GSC can take some good ranged anti tank with better AP than Tyranid weapons, although they don't really have a good platform for lascannons or preventing mining lasers from moving (BS 5+).
GSC allows you to take guard with tyranids, but that generally limits you on Tyranids you can take.
I want to try out taking 2 primus and a 10-15 of purestrain genestealers and 4-6 abberants with a Kraken tyranid army. Genestealers from GSC and Tyranids could get nasty alpha strike turn 1, then abberants can come in turn 2 close to vehicles. Hard to find a detachment to fill this with though....
I don't think I'd take GSC with a shooty tyranid army. Maybe a Battalion detachment with Neophytes? but meh... A Acolyte Iconward, a Magus and 3 Neophyte units would give you 5 Deny the witch attempts (if they're all together), mass hypnosis or mind control, 30 5+/6++ humans and options for heavy weapons / anti tank weapons.
That actually may not be bad for a ranged tyranid army:
Battalion (~360 points)
HQ Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Troops
3x Neophyte Hybrids with lascannon HWT or 2 mining lasers. (grenade launchers too if you want)
Use a Supreme Command Detachment to bring 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannon. That comes to 627pts which give you 1373pt to use on GSC and Tyranids Detachments.
I take 3 Primaris Psykers and either a Shadowsword or Banehammer for less points.
Niiai wrote: This might be asking a lot. But the hammerants with a primus using the stratgem, as well as a potensial re-roll in the psykick phase and charge phase. What are the chances that they both make it into charging a unit? Has anybody done the math?
Odds of a six with the primus re-roll (assuming that you are fishing for just a six and don't settle for a 5 on the first roll) = 67% chance.
Odds of a six or five with the primus re-roll = 92% chance.
A six is a practically guaranteed charge assuming you want to charge a unit you were over 9" away from (35/36 chance)
A five is going to get you an average of around an 80% chance of getting in.
I take 3 Primaris Psykers and either a Shadowsword or Banehammer for less points.
while that is true I don't think it matches the fire power for 3 Tank Commanders w/ battle cannons. Every varient of Baneblade are B4 and while TC are B3 and can all give them self's re-rolling 1s. The guns on a "varient " are usually worth it but you can only select 1 target with the main gun while 3 TC can shoots 2d6 at 3 different targets.
Also, he was looking for a way to enhance his Tyranids army which 3 TC would do perfectly as it would give him a strong gunline. How would the 3 Primaris Pyskers help him out unless he was running mainly AM with a good few Infantry type units?
Hey peeps of the underhive, I’ve been struggling lately to find an army I’m happy with but checking out Genestealer Cults, and playing a couple of 750pt games, got me curious.
I’m looking for an army that is quick and deadly, like Tyranids, but has a human eliment for me to get behind, so these dudes seemed like a good fit. I also like the models.
Are they fun to play at higher points limits and do they perform well? Being able to spawn the Genestealers and Patriarch in my enemy’s face was fun, and genestealers seem to wreck face. But I was struggling on the Guard side of things, neophytes seemingly pointless but maybe I was using them wrong.
Anyway:
1) even though they’re an index force, are they good?
2) what units perform well?
3) is it worth using their own units or allying Guard?
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey peeps of the underhive, I’ve been struggling lately to find an army I’m happy with but checking out Genestealer Cults, and playing a couple of 750pt games, got me curious.
I’m looking for an army that is quick and deadly, like Tyranids, but has a human eliment for me to get behind, so these dudes seemed like a good fit. I also like the models.
Are they fun to play at higher points limits and do they perform well? Being able to spawn the Genestealers and Patriarch in my enemy’s face was fun, and genestealers seem to wreck face. But I was struggling on the Guard side of things, neophytes seemingly pointless but maybe I was using them wrong.
Anyway:
1) even though they’re an index force, are they good?
2) what units perform well?
3) is it worth using their own units or allying Guard?
Thanks in advance
I've found that Neophytes have a few things to recommend them over guard. They do pay 1 point more per model, which isn't enormous but it isn't nothing, but they get 3 big things. First, Cult Ambush, which is not only deep strike but also a solid chance to get results like doubling their firepower the turn they come in or allowing them to tie something up in melee with a six. Second, access to a good transport, which Guard does not have. The Goliath Truck is solidly armed with its pair of autocannons and offers true open topped so you can fire special and heavy weapons out of it. Speaking of those, GSC get 2 heavy and 2 special weapons, double what guard squads get in a 10 man squad.
The two loadouts I have found most effective for my GSC are: 2x Grenade Launchers 2x Mining Lasers 6x Autoguns/lasguns in a Goliath Truck, I do run one squad with the lasers swapped out for Seismic Cannons, post CA both weapon options are solidly useful. The second is Chainsword leader, 2x Grenade Launchers, 7x Shotguns Cult Ambushing. Shotguns over autoguns there because range won't be an issue and if I happen to roll a 6 they get to be S4.
I will say there are some head scratchers in the neophytes weapon pool (why would I ever want a stubber over a seismic cannon? Why would I ever want a webber over a Grenade Launcher? I've tried flamers as well but GLs are pretty much always more efficient, since ambushing neo squads only have a 1/3 chance of getting to use the flamers the turn they come in, and to do so they have to give up the double shot on a 5 so really the flamer is only twice as effective on a roll of 6)
Strictly speaking it may be very slightly more efficient to run guard squads naked in a separate detachment than to fill more GSC troop slots with neophytes but IMO synergy-wise that is a mistake. GSC don't need what Guard provide, which is an effective screen to back up a hard-hitting gunline. We're not admech, with onagers and dakkastelans, we are a high pressure melee alpha strike army, what does a guard screen do to help that? neophytes and a couple russes provide me with a solid armored core to the army that helps clear out infantry/light vehicle chaff from long range and scores me points while my melee elements do the killing.
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey peeps of the underhive, I’ve been struggling lately to find an army I’m happy with but checking out Genestealer Cults, and playing a couple of 750pt games, got me curious.
I’m looking for an army that is quick and deadly, like Tyranids, but has a human eliment for me to get behind, so these dudes seemed like a good fit. I also like the models.
Are they fun to play at higher points limits and do they perform well? Being able to spawn the Genestealers and Patriarch in my enemy’s face was fun, and genestealers seem to wreck face. But I was struggling on the Guard side of things, neophytes seemingly pointless but maybe I was using them wrong.
Anyway:
1) even though they’re an index force, are they good?
2) what units perform well?
3) is it worth using their own units or allying Guard?
Thanks in advance
GSC are... not bad, but they aren't particularly good. What they do have is access to two of the best allies in the game, tyranids and guard.
They do have some good units though. Going through them all:
HQ:
Magus - amazing psychic powers, relatively cheap. Take at least one in every list
Primus - amazing when combined with the meticulous uprising stratagem, gives you a 90% chance of getting your melee unit in a <9in charge range.
Patriarch - Good but I find it a bit overcosted. Ignoring morale is nice, it blenderises things and buffs purestrains.
Iconwards - Pretty awful tbh. The FnP is done by a model basis, not by unit so sucks. The relic it can carry is nice though.
Familiars - Probably a waste of points. 12pts for +1 wound and an extra smite cast is ok but there are better things to take.
Troops:
Neophytes - guardsmen with a different name. That being said, they get 2x the special weapons (take grenade launchers), have built in deepstrike, they all have pistols, can all take shotguns and they have the option to take mining weapons (not really recommended though, just take the heavy weapons). On the downside, they cost 1 more point each and cannot take orders. Pretty solid, probably better than guard squads.
Acolytes - used to be pretty bad, now decent. Take a large squad armed with rock saws and use a primus to guide them in to where they need to be. They'll mulch whatever they touch (if they survive). Small squads are probably best used with demolition charges.
Elites:
Aberrants - BRING THE HAMMER DOWN! Need to kill a superheavy? Throw 8 power hammer aberrants with a primus nearby and cast might from beyond on them. They will kill that knight or baneblade on average
Purestrains - fast and deadly, will massacre infantry and will put damage on anything tougher thanks to rending claws. Personally I like putting 10-12 of them in a chimera.
Metamorphs - do not want
Fast Attack:
Scout sentinel - the better choice, use them to counter deepstrike shenanigans and to up the number of drops you put on the table. I fit mine with autocannons and use them as stationary turrets.
Armoured sentinel - tougher scouts but without the anti-deepstrike utility. I'd pass on these.
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ - The big guns. Unless you're going for a brigade though, you may as well take a guard detachment and run tank commanders.
Goliath Rockgrinder - Fun, but underwhelming IMO. I'd rather take the trucks and stuff neophytes in them. 6 transport capacity is a bit awkward too.
Dedicated Transports:
Chimera - Box #1. Carries 12 so you can take a magus, patriarch or iconward along for the trip. I like double flamers on mine; pop smoke t1 and advance as far as possible, then t2 drop off your genestealer/acolyte payload, flame the enemy and charge to soak up overwatch.
Goliath Truck - Box #2, but this one doesn't have a lid so you can shoot out of it. Put neophytes in it.
Hey guys, thanks heaps for the replies. So what I'm getting from this is: Genestealer are great; neophytes in trucks are great and always take grenade launchers; Magus and Primus are best leaders, but Patriarch is also somewhat good if I want to use it; lemon russes for long range fire support; Neophytes armed with shotguns and Acolytes are great for ambushing; Scout sentinels with autocannons for screening and adding some extra autocannons.
What's the main anti-tank unit for this lot? Lemon Russes and those hammer dudes? Though I can't find where to get those hammer dudes
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey guys, thanks heaps for the replies. So what I'm getting from this is: Genestealer are great; neophytes in trucks are great and always take grenade launchers; Magus and Primus are best leaders, but Patriarch is also somewhat good if I want to use it; lemon russes for long range fire support; Neophytes armed with shotguns and Acolytes are great for ambushing; Scout sentinels with autocannons for screening and adding some extra autocannons.
What's the main anti-tank unit for this lot? Lemon Russes and those hammer dudes? Though I can't find where to get those hammer dudes
The hammer dudes just came in the Deathwatch: Overkill box (which is an excellent value if you can find it for the models contained within) but if you're just looking for a targeted purchase for hammer Aberrants, the Goliath box from Necromunda can be super easily kitbashed with Acolyte heads and bits to make Aberrants. It's basically 10 big muscly dudes with heavy hammers/axes on the right base sizes for 40$. Well worth getting a box so you can have 8 hammerberrants with a primus.
Not sure what the above poster is on about regarding taking a HWT instead of 2 mining weapons though, I have to disagree - I'll always take 2 Mining Lasers over 1 lascannon shot and none of the HWT options come close to holding a candle to the seismic cannon in terms of anti-elite/anti-infantry output.
I haven't yet decided if I prefer 2 lasers or 2 seismics for my truck squads, but I would always choose one of those two options to go for. the lasers are good for staying safe at 24" and knocking the occasional hull point off something heavy, but now that my two battlecannon/lascannon cult russes and hammerberrants actually pull their weight (and good lord have they been doing so in spectacular fashion post-CA) I have been getting better performance out of the seismics in my games, plus they're a good deal cheaper.
A double-seismic, double-GL unit tosses out an average of 21 S3 shots per turn from 24" away, 8 of which rend on 6s. for a unit that costs what, 74 points, has obsec and gets to shoot that out comfy cozy from the safety of their transport, that's pretty darn solid. Better damage output than Tau Fire Warriors, Space Marines, or skitarii at that range. Only unit that beats it out to my knowledge for its points is lasgun guardsmen receiving the First Rank Fire order which do 1/3 more damage, but which don't have a nice mobile bunker to fire out of.
TwinPoleTheory wrote: Acolytes are also amazing, I hate Rock Drills sooooooooo much.
Rock drills may be the most fun weapon in 40k to use (or at least, they're up there) but in terms of effectiveness for points post-CA I don't think anything beats the rock saw. It's almost half as expensive for nearly the same average damage output. Given that with a primus and an icon (which you should take if you're going for a 10-man, 4-saw unit) you're going to be hitting on 2s rerolling 1s, wounding most things on 3s and then doing a flat 2 damage rather than D3....they are one of the best anti-armor melee units out there.
Only overshadowed in pure anti-tank punching power by...a unit in the same codex, hammerberrants.
Automatically Appended Next Post: crunching the math, for general use it seems like 10x saw acolytes with banner are somewhat more efficient than 8x hammerberrants (assuming both are going in with a primus and meticulous uprising) because the saw boys do just about perfectly enough damage on average to fell a "rhino equivalent vehicle" (i.e. T7, 3+, 10-12 wounds) while the aberrants cost about 1/3 again as much but deal almost double that damage.
The hammers' S10 is cancelled out by the saws' AP-4 for the most part, so really the aberrants are only more efficient if you end up having more than one vehicle target you want to engage, or a really big one like a superheavy. Durability wise the units are very close, aberrants I'd call slightly less durable than acolytes because the acolytes require 6 wounds before you start reducing their anti tank power, but you can readily assume that both will essentially be suicide troops.
I think most times I'd prefer 10x acolytes with saws.
Patriarch - Good but I find it a bit overcosted. Ignoring morale is nice, it blenderises things and buffs purestrains.
I actually think the Patriarch is the right price. It can cast and deny 1 pysker power and allows Purestrains to add +1. If you were to buff Purestrains with a Magus for Might from Beyond and using a Primus to get +1 to hit then just get the Patriarch as a Magus and Primus cost 149 together while the Patriarch is 150 and a beast in melee. I almost always use one for my Purestrains unless I don't want to buff their stats.
It's interesting to see the variety of answers for the loadouts of neophyte teams. For the past few weeks that I've been reading this topic, I've seen recommendations for 2x grenade launchers + mortar HWT, stationary Lascannon objective holders, and in/out of a goliath truck.
I guess that really speaks to just how flexible the unit is.
Same thing with sentinels, the debate between armored/scout sentinels has been fun to watch.
I take it that this means GSC can really be built to how YOU prefer to play? Aka take a unit outfitted however you want, and synergize with other pieces as you please.
ajax_xaja wrote: It's interesting to see the variety of answers for the loadouts of neophyte teams. For the past few weeks that I've been reading this topic, I've seen recommendations for 2x grenade launchers + mortar HWT, stationary Lascannon objective holders, and in/out of a goliath truck.
I guess that really speaks to just how flexible the unit is.
Same thing with sentinels, the debate between armored/scout sentinels has been fun to watch.
I take it that this means GSC can really be built to how YOU prefer to play? Aka take a unit outfitted however you want, and synergize with other pieces as you please.
Yes, but like with all the Index factions....to an extent.
The Neophytes for instance have a few obvious "why would you ever take one of these" choices. All the stuff that uses the well-tested imperial weapons profiles? Great. Heavy Stubbers/Web weapons/Sergeant weapon upgrades? Bleah no. If we have bespoke pricing for all our gear, why the flippity flip do neophytes (WS4+ A1 S3 guys with no weapons) pay the same price as Acolytes (WS3+ A2 S4 guys with a rending claw AND a bonus attack knife) for a Cult Icon? The icon for the neos should be like...5 points. Same deal with the Heavy Stubber, as well as some of the HWT options like autocannon and heavy bolter.
My thoughts on them as for instance Lascannon Objective Holders is...why not bring guard at that point. You're just paying 10 points to call them neophytes. For me, unless you're making use of their advantages, they're 100% guard-1.
Armored vs Scout Sentinels are a tossup because neither is particularly great and the difference is pretty minuscule.
Aberrants with Picks really need never apply, same with Metamorphs as before they're just utterly outclassed by Acolytes and Genestealers. Leman Russ is pretty much battlecannon or bust since we don't have the other good variants from the AM codex (and I still can't figure out why...)
I would say that GSC are a contender for best index book out there post-CA. But that doesn't say much.
Other than Neophytes in Goliath, ambushing shotgunners, or blob with magnus to give lots of deny the witch, guardsmen are generally just better and cheaper. Plasma guns are just so much better than grenade launchers and 2 points more. You can get 3 guard squads and a company commander HQ for same cost as 3 neophytes.
Does anyone really ever take mobile mining lasers? 5+ to hit sucks...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Odrankt wrote: Every varient of Baneblade are B4 and while TC are B3 and can all give them self's re-rolling 1s.
Tank Commanders cannot give themselves orders, only Pask can issue orders to tank commanders. So no rerolling 1s.
Other than Neophytes in Goliath, ambushing shotgunners, or blob with magnus to give lots of deny the witch, guardsmen are generally just better and cheaper. Plasma guns are just so much better than grenade launchers and 2 points more. You can get 3 guard squads and a company commander HQ for same cost as 3 neophytes.
Does anyone really ever take mobile mining lasers? 5+ to hit sucks...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Odrankt wrote: Every varient of Baneblade are B4 and while TC are B3 and can all give them self's re-rolling 1s.
Tank Commanders cannot give themselves orders, only Pask can issue orders to tank commanders. So no rerolling 1s.
Pask can only Issue orders to Cadian Leman Russ's and he is allowed to give a Leman Russ 2 Tank Commands.
Any Normal TC can give any <Regiment> Leman Russ a Tank Command. Also, taken from the AM codex; "This model can issue one order each turn to a friendly <REGIMENT> LEMAN RUSS at the start of your Shooting phase. To issue a Tank Order, pick a target LEMAN RUSS within 6" of this model and choose which order you wish to issue from the Tank Orders table. Each LEMAN RUSS can only be given a single order each turn."
So... That means that because a Tank Commander has the "Leman Russ" keyword it is allowed to Command itself or any LR within 6".
Unless you have other evidence to say this is illegal?
Purely for curiosity's sake, I'm taking another glance at a unit I had previously dismissed as "like Purestrains, but 100% worse" - metamorphs.
These guys, equipped entirely with whips and talons, would seem to me to be a fairly effective anti-horde tool when applied with a Meticulous Uprising Primus. Throw in a few hand flamers on ~half the squad and you'd have what would seem to be a more reliable chaff-clearer than a unit of purestrains. And if you can surround a model (something I've found myself getting better and better at as 8th goes on) you get to do more damage against the melee counterattacks that kill your models.
Is anyone running whip metamorphs? Or are the tradeoffs from metamorph to genestealer (faster movement, higher toughness, 5++ as opposed to 5+) just too big to stomach?
I used them with +2 strenght and the iconward so with strenght 7 (can even go to 8 with the spell) you can hit anything even some light vehicules and wound t3 on 2+ it give me a versatile unit but i only take 5.
taetrius67 wrote: I used them with +2 strenght and the iconward so with strenght 7 (can even go to 8 with the spell) you can hit anything even some light vehicules and wound t3 on 2+ it give me a versatile unit but i only take 5.
Eh... seems like a lot of effort to go to just to get something to S7, especially when its 0 ap 1 damage so it basically has zero chance of ever hurting a vehicle.
For reference, that squad of buffed Claw metamorphs does 1/3 less damage vs a standard T7 3+ vehicle than an unbuffed metamorph with just a rending claw. Wounds on a 4+, no AP, vs wounds on a 5+, -1 AP and half the wounds at -4 AP.
The only time that strategy actually nets you good results is vs T5 and T6, which are pretty rare toughness values. and you pay a bundle for the claws.
Hence why I went with whip/claw. The claw is free, and mathematically it seems to be superior to both of the other weapons, which you pay a CRAZY amount for (talon and claw) against almost all targets. So you get the whip, which is cheaper and gives you an ability that lets you swing an extra time with your claw when you die.
don't get me wrong: I think the difference between purestrains and whipmorphs is so minuscule that it's almost a preference choice. You get a tiny bit more offense with the whipmorphs vs a bit more flexibility and durability with the purestrains. On average the purestrains probably still edge them out, but both are going to show up, absolutely obliterate something with their rending claws, and then probably die to return anti infantry fire the next turn. The only difference is, if you wind up against an opponent who is melee focused, they can charge and wipe your genestealers fairly easily with a lot of common alpha strike units, while if they send some zerkers or death company against the whipmorphs, they are going to get demolished by the whip special rule.
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:
Plasma guns are just so much better than grenade launchers and 2 points more.
To be fair, the Grenade Launcher isn't a bad weapon per say. It just suffers tremendously from the restriction of a single special weapon per guardsmen squad, as with only one it isn't really possible to get enough shots from it to get work done. With Neophytes, the extra special allowance makes Grenade Launchers more useful and Seismic Cannons provide a complimentary rate-of-fire weapon with very similar weapon profiles for more firepower saturation.
Also worth keeping the unit roles in mind. Plasma is a fantastic weapon for hunting large targets and heavy infantry, but it isn't that efficient against hoard infantry which for the most part is what Neophytes are tasked with thinning out so the GSC melee units can go to work.
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:
Does anyone really ever take mobile mining lasers? 5+ to hit sucks...
From my experience autogun squads tend to stay put once they are in a good firing position (be it from ambushing into cover or riding in a Goliath) so the move and fire penalty hasn't been too big a drawback.
the_scotsman wrote:
Hence why I went with whip/claw. The claw is free, and mathematically it seems to be superior to both of the other weapons, which you pay a CRAZY amount for (talon and claw) against almost all targets. So you get the whip, which is cheaper and gives you an ability that lets you swing an extra time with your claw when you die.
They are. I remember calculating it out awhile ago and the Talon and Claw are both fairly inefficient against almost every target (mostly due to lack of AP - Claw was worse due to higher cost) while the Whip + Rending Claw is about on par with Purestrains provided they don't have their bonus attack from larger squad size in effect. The main area I see Metamorphs being a superior option compared to Genestealers is in smaller mechanized units (such as Rockgrinder-mounted cohorts), since they actually get more attacks than their counterparts in small squads due to their squad leader and as you mentioned they always get their swings in if they make it to combat.
If building a brigade they are probably the cheapest elite option given that they are fine operating at minimum squad sizes while 'stealers want larger units and Aberrants are more expensive than either (though to be fair, they fill a different role entirely). Biggest problem is you will need to loot some Venomthrope arms to build mass whips, as the official Metamorph Whip arm is a left-handed pair and there are only two torsos that fit that particular configuration per box.
Timeshadow wrote:Metamorphs definitly need some love and someting to make them different from a slightly slower genestealer with no inv.
I'm expecting to see their biomorphs brought in line with the Tyranid weapons they are based on (Talon = Scything Talon, Claw = Crushing Claw, Whip = Toxic Lash/Lash Whip) and perhaps a few extras added to account for the "head" biomorphs as was the case with the Hive Fleet Genestealers (Acid Maw and Flesh Hooks, maybe a variantion of enhanced senses and adrenal glands). Might also see a cost decrease for both 1st/2nd generation hybrids too, given that pre FAQ/Chappter Approved they were significantly cheaper than Purestrains.
Niiai wrote: The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.
The Imperial guard Conversion ( Neophyte Hybrid Squad ) has a grenade launcher, flamer, 1 laspistol / 1 chainsword and 10 lasguns. Big thing it comes with is a single Heavy weapons team.
The Neophyte hybrids has far more weapon options, 10 autoguns, 10 shotguns, 1 seismic cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 1 webber, 1 flamer, 1 webber pistol, 1 bolt pistol, 1 autopistol, and 3 melee weapons.
Niiai wrote: The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
One is IG with conversion bits.
The other one are a kit designed for GSC.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.
Guard one is literally just the cadian infantry kit with some extra heads and cult symbols - ten guys with lasguns with parts for one heavy weapon team (one of each heavy weapon but only one base). Each set comes with 2 flamers, 2 grenade launchers and 2 laspistol/chainswords. You can build 10 neophytes AND a heavy weapon team
The cult one comes with enough parts to build 10 regular neophytes OR 8 neophytes and 2 heavy gun ones, not both (I think. not 100% certain). But it does come with enough shotguns for the entire squad, which is the only place of getting them in bulk as far as I know. Also comes with a cult icon, power maul, power pick auto pistol, bolt pistol, web pistol, webber, grenade launcher, flamer and one of each heavy mining weapon.
I've got a wargear question related to cult icons - is anything stopping me from giving me one to an acolyte with a heavy rock saw? It'd require conversion but it'd give me one extra body before my squad loses combat effectiveness
So the neophyte is lacking 1 grenade launcher and 1 mining laser if that is how I wanne do it? Both mining laser and grenade launcher has 24" range.
It is a pitty because I really like the neophyte kit, but I think I want the heavy weapon from th heavy weapon team. Lascannon seems king in 8th edition. For 70 points it seems like good chaff with some teeth. Chaff when you meet alpha strike. Lascannon for when you meet a gunline.
You could just get a IGHWT kit that comes with 3 of them, you just really need the 6 heads for the guardsmen, which you will likely have extras from the neophyte hybrid kits.
Getting the deathwatch overkill box comes with a bunch of neophyte hybrids, some of the molds are the same so instead of putting autoguns on them I put shotguns on them from the hybrid kit.
Niiai wrote: The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.
The Imperial guard Conversion ( Neophyte Hybrid Squad ) has a grenade launcher, flamer, 1 laspistol / 1 chainsword and 10 lasguns. Big thing it comes with is a single Heavy weapons team.
The Neophyte hybrids has far more weapon options, 10 autoguns, 10 shotguns, 1 seismic cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 1 webber, 1 flamer, 1 webber pistol, 1 bolt pistol, 1 autopistol, and 3 melee weapons.
How do we get access to Missle Launchers or are they apart of the Normal Neophytes?
Niiai wrote: The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.
The Imperial guard Conversion ( Neophyte Hybrid Squad ) has a grenade launcher, flamer, 1 laspistol / 1 chainsword and 10 lasguns. Big thing it comes with is a single Heavy weapons team.
The Neophyte hybrids has far more weapon options, 10 autoguns, 10 shotguns, 1 seismic cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 1 webber, 1 flamer, 1 webber pistol, 1 bolt pistol, 1 autopistol, and 3 melee weapons.
How do we get access to Missle Launchers or are they apart of the Normal Neophytes?
I think the missile launcher is part of the heavy weapon team.
Niiai wrote: The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.
The Imperial guard Conversion ( Neophyte Hybrid Squad ) has a grenade launcher, flamer, 1 laspistol / 1 chainsword and 10 lasguns. Big thing it comes with is a single Heavy weapons team.
The Neophyte hybrids has far more weapon options, 10 autoguns, 10 shotguns, 1 seismic cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 1 webber, 1 flamer, 1 webber pistol, 1 bolt pistol, 1 autopistol, and 3 melee weapons.
How do we get access to Missle Launchers or are they apart of the Normal Neophytes?
I think the missile launcher is part of the heavy weapon team.
Awesome, thank you!
I personally prefer the Missle Launcher over a Lascannon. S8 and S9 wound the same, both have the same D6 damage only difference is the -2 on the ML vs -3 on the LC. Missle Launcher also has the possibility to shoot a grenande at 48". What do ye guys prefer.? I am usually going Lascannon on a Tank Commander and Missle Launcher on my Neophytes.
With the missile launcher loosing its template and going to D6 for frag, its pretty crap actually. I don't think I've seen anyone take a missile launcher if they could instead take a lascannon.
S9 Lascannon vs S8 Missile is actually pretty big, on T8 targets the lascannon wounds on a 3+, there are very few ranged weapons that are S9.
In GSC I don't really think taking lascannons or missile launchers are really that worth it. Acolytes and abberants are so much better at taking out S7 or S8 targets then a few neophytes with heavy weapons would ever be.
Neophytes would be a lot better off going with a heavy bolter or mortar. Having a single fire weapon at 4+ or 5+ to hit is a pain.
The HWT kits are nice, they only give you 2 infantry but they come with all the weapons, so with some extra 60mm bases, some sort of block to rest the guns on and some more infantry you can make all the heavy weapon types you want.
So... That means that because a Tank Commander has the "Leman Russ" keyword it is allowed to Command itself or any LR within 6".
Unless you have other evidence to say this is illegal?
I can't remember exactly where it says it but it does specifically say Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to characters. They are characters so they cannot issue orders to themselves or other Tank Commanders.
It is stated in Imperium 2 FAQ that Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to themselves, I'm pretty sure the wording about not being able to order characters is in the index and codex.
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote: With the missile launcher loosing its template and going to D6 for frag, its pretty crap actually. I don't think I've seen anyone take a missile launcher if they could instead take a lascannon.
S9 Lascannon vs S8 Missile is actually pretty big, on T8 targets the lascannon wounds on a 3+, there are very few ranged weapons that are S9.
In GSC I don't really think taking lascannons or missile launchers are really that worth it. Acolytes and abberants are so much better at taking out S7 or S8 targets then a few neophytes with heavy weapons would ever be.
Neophytes would be a lot better off going with a heavy bolter or mortar. Having a single fire weapon at 4+ or 5+ to hit is a pain.
The HWT kits are nice, they only give you 2 infantry but they come with all the weapons, so with some extra 60mm bases, some sort of block to rest the guns on and some more infantry you can make all the heavy weapon types you want.
So... That means that because a Tank Commander has the "Leman Russ" keyword it is allowed to Command itself or any LR within 6".
Unless you have other evidence to say this is illegal?
I can't remember exactly where it says it but it does specifically say Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to characters. They are characters so they cannot issue orders to themselves or other Tank Commanders.
It is stated in Imperium 2 FAQ that Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to themselves, I'm pretty sure the wording about not being able to order characters is in the index and codex.
Hi. How do your runn acolites? I play a leviathan nid army. I am adding some hammerants as well. S10 alpha strike is to tempting. But I would like another element. For the moment I am considering IG spearhead with heavy weapon teams for lascans and mortars.
If I'm taking hammerants I usually take a 10 man of Acolytes and have a primus for both to ambush with rolls of 5 or 6s.
10x Acolytes 193 points
4 with Heavy Rock Saws
Leader with bonesword and lash whip
Cult Icon
The Heavy Rock Saws do 1 less damage but have better AP than the hammers, they don't have the -1 to hit though so with a primus and cult icon thats 2+ to hit reroll 1s. If you combine that with the Might from beyond, thats equivalent (most likely better) than 8 hammerants.
Heavy rock drills can be good too but they're expensive. Great against enemies with invuln saves but as nids you may as well just bring biovores.
I ambush the Acolytes in turn 1, since they have 6 models without heavy weapons they can loose some models to overwatch and still be effective. Turn 2 I usually ambush the hammerants since there is a better chance of them not being killed in overwatch and more deployment options.
Nice thing too with acolytes is if you have might from beyond that's 6 x 3 attacks that will pretty much all hit, on 6s to wound thats AP -4, so still quite effective against vehicles, but also far more effective against infantry than hammerants are. They also have autopistols.
Hammerants and acolytes that ambush work best with kraken. That's how I usually run, its pretty devastating to gunlines.
If you want to gum up the works even more, throw in some ambushing neopyhtes with shotguns and flamers / grenade launchers. They may not ambush well but they make a good nuisance and if they're within 6" of the primus they get ws3+.
I can't remember exactly where it says it but it does specifically say Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to characters. They are characters so they cannot issue orders to themselves or other Tank Commanders.
It is stated in Imperium 2 FAQ that Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to themselves, I'm pretty sure the wording about not being able to order characters is in the index and codex.
the Index said what you are saying, Pask can command himself or any Leman Russ and TC can only command non-character Leman Russ's.
However, in the codex, they changed or misprinted it to them having the same wording in that they can both Command any Leman Russ within 6". I also could not find any FaQ to say otherwise. I will ask in the AM fourm, they will most likely knwo the answer.
If I'm taking hammerants I usually take a 10 man of Acolytes and have a primus for both to ambush with rolls of 5 or 6s.
10x Acolytes 193 points
4 with Heavy Rock Saws
Leader with bonesword and lash whip
Cult Icon
The Heavy Rock Saws do 1 less damage but have better AP than the hammers, they don't have the -1 to hit though so with a primus and cult icon thats 2+ to hit reroll 1s. If you combine that with the Might from beyond, thats equivalent (most likely better) than 8 hammerants.
Heavy rock drills can be good too but they're expensive. Great against enemies with invuln saves but as nids you may as well just bring biovores.
I ambush the Acolytes in turn 1, since they have 6 models without heavy weapons they can loose some models to overwatch and still be effective. Turn 2 I usually ambush the hammerants since there is a better chance of them not being killed in overwatch and more deployment options.
Nice thing too with acolytes is if you have might from beyond that's 6 x 3 attacks that will pretty much all hit, on 6s to wound thats AP -4, so still quite effective against vehicles, but also far more effective against infantry than hammerants are. They also have autopistols.
Hammerants and acolytes that ambush work best with kraken. That's how I usually run, its pretty devastating to gunlines.
If you want to gum up the works even more, throw in some ambushing neopyhtes with shotguns and flamers / grenade launchers. They may not ambush well but they make a good nuisance and if they're within 6" of the primus they get ws3+.
Nice comparison with Acolytes vs Hammerants.
I was thinking of running my Hammerants with an Acolyte Iconward w/ relic to be S12 and 6+ FnP but you not got me thinking about using Acolytes.
Would you say that 10 Acolytes, Icon bearer and 4 Acolytes with Rock Saw accompanied by an Iconward w/ Relic would be any good. Sure your losing 2+ to hit but you get 6+ FnP and if casted with MfB they would be S12 which is totally comparible to Hammerants.
Looks like I'm going over my Tournament list again
Thoughts on handflamers now that we can reliably get into range off of ambush? I’m tempted to give them to my rocksaw acolytes to doubledown on their damage
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote: With the missile launcher loosing its template and going to D6 for frag, its pretty crap actually. I don't think I've seen anyone take a missile launcher if they could instead take a lascannon.
I see it very often, because i am a tyranid player as well and its used so mulch low armor save units faster with the potential to threat vehicles and high toughnes models as well.
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote: In GSC I don't really think taking lascannons or missile launchers are really that worth it. Acolytes and abberants are so much better at taking out S7 or S8 targets then a few neophytes with heavy weapons would ever be.
If you can reach them beyond their screens and have some luck with the ambush rolls. IF you can make contact, then sure, they are great. If its not possible to do so, then better shoot some heavy weapons. Again, its the option to do so which makes it worth in my opinion.
Heavy alpha strikes and hard first turn melee/shooting/smite is common, so most enemies will have screens or some other kind of protection.
Sidenote: In my lokal meta its close to impossible to just ambush somewhere and freely charge what ever i want. If you have a competent opponent, it can be a very hard job to place abberants right to have them shine.
Edit:
And with heavy weapons, the opponent cant afford to just ignore such neophyte squads entirely. Draws fire from other units.
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote: Neophytes would be a lot better off going with a heavy bolter or mortar. Having a single fire weapon at 4+ or 5+ to hit is a pain.
Bigger probability to get 1 of 3 shots in, but on the other side have way less impact on high toughnes targets or good armor saves.
easypeasylemonsquezy wrote: With the missile launcher loosing its template and going to D6 for frag, its pretty crap actually. I don't think I've seen anyone take a missile launcher if they could instead take a lascannon.
S9 Lascannon vs S8 Missile is actually pretty big, on T8 targets the lascannon wounds on a 3+, there are very few ranged weapons that are S9.
In GSC I don't really think taking lascannons or missile launchers are really that worth it. Acolytes and abberants are so much better at taking out S7 or S8 targets then a few neophytes with heavy weapons would ever be.
Neophytes would be a lot better off going with a heavy bolter or mortar. Having a single fire weapon at 4+ or 5+ to hit is a pain.
The HWT kits are nice, they only give you 2 infantry but they come with all the weapons, so with some extra 60mm bases, some sort of block to rest the guns on and some more infantry you can make all the heavy weapon types you want.
So... That means that because a Tank Commander has the "Leman Russ" keyword it is allowed to Command itself or any LR within 6".
Unless you have other evidence to say this is illegal?
I can't remember exactly where it says it but it does specifically say Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to characters. They are characters so they cannot issue orders to themselves or other Tank Commanders.
It is stated in Imperium 2 FAQ that Tank Commanders cannot issue orders to themselves, I'm pretty sure the wording about not being able to order characters is in the index and codex.
Hi. How do your runn acolites? I play a leviathan nid army. I am adding some hammerants as well. S10 alpha strike is to tempting. But I would like another element. For the moment I am considering IG spearhead with heavy weapon teams for lascans and mortars.
How do the acolitea you mention help?
I ran the math on it earlier, a 10-man squad of acolytes with 4x saws and Cult Icon does better damage for the points than a maxed squad of aberrants to tanks, and can alternatively shred infantry fairly well, so I would call them a better TAC option. Aberrants are good if you find yourself struggling vs a superheavy vehicle or a very tank heavy army because they essentially pack the anti-tank pwoer of two aco squads into one unit that only needs one turn's worth of meticulous uprising. Aberrants can pretty reliably charge and take down 2 main battle tank models if theyre close together, or down a single superheavy type unit.
I would take acos either with max saws+icon if you're Meticulous Uprising them onto the board, or 5-man with 2 Demo Charges if they're just going to be a standard troop squad unsupported/transported in a rockgrinder. Both those loadouts are solid IMO.
Niiai wrote: Wait what? They are better vs T7 and 8 then 3 damage aberants?
no, but they're more efficient for the points spent. Since so many vehicles in the game currently use the "T7 3+ 10-13 wounds" mold, you can try to tune your anti-vehicle units to kill exactly that amount and not waste anything in overkill.
10 sawcolytes deal 10.3 damage with their saws, .65 damage with their knives, 2 damage with rends, and 1 damage with non-rends to deal an average of 14 damage on the dot to the T7 3+ profile. 8 hammerberrants deal almost double that and cost a bit less than double the sawcolytes, about 1.6x if I remember right. So they're more efficient in the instance where you get the charge on 2 T7 3+ normal vehicles (not that outlandish if you consider how easily you get a 6 with Meticulous Uprising), or 1 double-wounds superheavy like a baneblade or knight. Critically though the sawcolytes aren't locked into JUST the narrow band vehicle target - those claws and knives are perfectly happy chewing up some medium or light infantry as well.
My thought here is that both units are good, acolytes are better in more circumstances.
My thoughts was that it was much cheaper to buy some goliaths and turn them into abberants then buying the super expensive acolytes.
acos are cheap if you get a DWO set of 12 and one or two squad boxes. The DWO models are very easy to convert because the arm shoulder join is a simple flat plane, you can easily clip the arms cleanly off the dwo models and mount the arm sets from the kit. That's how I got my acolytes.
Only trouble with the goliath box is there's really only 4 proper two-handed hammer bits. most of the arm builds are gun+small melee weapon which doesnt really work.
My thoughts was that it was much cheaper to buy some goliaths and turn them into abberants then buying the super expensive acolytes.
acos are cheap if you get a DWO set of 12 and one or two squad boxes. The DWO models are very easy to convert because the arm shoulder join is a simple flat plane, you can easily clip the arms cleanly off the dwo models and mount the arm sets from the kit. That's how I got my acolytes.
Only trouble with the goliath box is there's really only 4 proper two-handed hammer bits. most of the arm builds are gun+small melee weapon which doesnt really work.
All that cost me £270/€313 which is easily an unreal offer. I also got some AM stuff like Russ's and platoon commanders and 5 Biovores from the same transaction.
I actually found that one and bought it before I saw your link. Finding good ebays for Norway is hard because of the steep shipping.
If I buy a pack of acolytes I think I can make 2 buss saws out of that. (Green stuff off one of the sides, and glue the busssaw on one of the other tools.) But I would like to see 2 more buss saws in a unit, making a total of 4. I think 4 busssaw in a group of 15 acolytes is a good mix of wounds and damage.
Edit: Someone in the paint an modeeling forum found me some made out of lego. Some filing and I think it will be good. :-) Although shipping was 12x the price of the saws. :-p
Automatically Appended Next Post: In what situation do you use hybrid metamorphs over purestrain genestealers?
Automatically Appended Next Post: How is the math on demolition charges? Is a group of 5 with 2 demo charges in a chimera good? Seems to me that it can have a very high variance on the dice. (2d6 assault, BS4+, d3 damage.)
Yeah I'm not convinced on democharges either, short range, super high variance, bleh. Much rather take rocksaws.
A short while ago I couldn't praise aberrants enough, but recently I feel like rocksaws hit that TAC sweetspot (as an aside, ork bitz are great for rocksaw conversions).
I'm currently primusing a group of ten acolytes and they do really nice work. I'm hoping they get a better way to up their longevity than the iconward in the codex though, they are painfully filmsy
Great timing on the demo charge discussion, because I came here to ask the same thing. The benefit that Rock Saws seem to have is the extra AP, but caps at 2 attacks.
The Demo Charges swing both ways, average die roll is going to be 3.5, and does similar amounts of damage.
Chances are if you're in range to swing a saw, you'll be able to throw a demo charge right? Furthermore, failing a charge but having some demo charges at least grants you the ability to do SOME damage.
I've gone the non-committal way of 2 of each in my 10 man acolyte squad :p
If you’re within 6” and fail the charge then the dice gods were dead set against you making a charge. Thats what, a 1/9 chance? Then you’ve got to hit on a 4+ instead of a 3+, then your opponent has to fail a save, compared to hit on a 3+ then leaving no save for most targets. Also you can buff the melee with primus, banner, relic and might from beyond. And you can reuse the rocksaws on the offchance that the acolytes survive. In my eyes its a no brainier
What bases are the different cultists on? I try to base my cultists on industrial bases, while my nids on outdoor bases, I am confused.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, the mining laser. Can often shoot at range 24, when they sett up. But only on a 5+. But it 14 points. S9, but only d3 damage. The dark eldar do not like the blaster, (assault 1 18", bs3+ 1d3 damage) d3 damage is not very much. 28 points for 2 chances as 5+. Asuming you set up within 24", you have 55% chance to hit with one of the weapons. That is very bad for 24 points, right? I mean they are gonne get eaten in the following turn. They seem bad.
Neophytes are on 25mm bases (like Guardsmen), pretty much everything else is on 32mm bases (like Space Marines). Genestealers are a bit of an oddity since the ones from Overkill are on 32mm bases while the stand-alone box has them with slotted 25mm bases.
As for the Mining Laser, post chapter approved I'm not sure what I think of them. Their main purpose is similar to plasma as a general purpose weapon that can deal with well armored infantry while having the strength to threaten larger targets, but with melee anti-tank getting a big boost and Seismic Cannons getting a sizable cost reduction it isn't really needed to fill those niches anymore.
I'm still quite fond of Demolition Charges though. One of the more notable advantages they have over Rock Saws still is that they are a shooting weapon so they can blow up one target and still be free to charge another. I've still been running more mechanized lists though, which admittedly skews my opinion of them. They aren't very good with ambushers since most results won't be in range to fire, but transports have no problem getting them next to whatever needs to be blown up.
What is the best way to deal with Hard to Hit T6 Flyers as GSC? Rockgrinders with Clearance Incenerators, Scout Sentienels with Heavy Flamers, Acolyte Iconward artifact backed HandFlamers, or Spamming Magnus for Smite?
Honestly, I don't know that chasing flyers with short range flamers has ever been a decent answer. If you can manage to get in range to shoot them, sure.
But how often is your opponent going to be giving you that kind of opportunity, especially on supersonic flyers?
I'm sure this has been asked before - so I'm sorry - but I couldn't search and find it. The AMFAQ says:
Q: Can an Astra Militarum Detachment that is included in an army alongside a Genestealer Cults Detachment using the Brood Brothers rule gain a Regimental Doctrine, and can the units in such a Detachment use any of the regiment-specific Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Orders, Relics, etc.?
A: No, Brood Brothers Detachments cannot use any regiment-specific rules.
Does this mean I can take a Tank Commander (officer) and give him Kurov's Aquila? It seems like it is not a regiment-specific relic, so I should be good, right?
edit: never mind, the army has to be led by an AM character.
I could be wrong, but I saw some talk about being able to use an armies extra relic stratagem even if your warlord isn’t from that army. Can anyone confirm? Think it was deathguard related.
On a related note, can’t wait until we get our codex so I don’t feel forced into taking some wimpy company commander as a warlord over my patriarch
What are your experiences with sentinels? I would think the armored wariant is outplatformed by a platon of infatery for heavy weapons. But is the scout any interestng?
Arachnofiend wrote: You can use the "get an extra relic" stratagem to get relics from codexes that are not your warlord's.
Question, In the Codex's it states you can take relics if your HQ is the Warlord of the detachment e.g. I am using a GSC/AM/Nids army and have my AM Tank Commander as my Warlord w/ Grand Strategist to gain a CP and Kurovs Aquila to regain CPs.
Would I be able to spend the Extra 1 - 3 CPs to take relics from GSC and Tyranids or are we only able to take extra relics from the Warlords Detachment?
Arachnofiend wrote: You can use the "get an extra relic" stratagem to get relics from codexes that are not your warlord's.
Question, In the Codex's it states you can take relics if your HQ is the Warlord of the detachment e.g. I am using a GSC/AM/Nids army and have my AM Tank Commander as my Warlord w/ Grand Strategist to gain a CP and Kurovs Aquila to regain CPs.
Would I be able to spend the Extra 1 - 3 CPs to take relics from GSC and Tyranids or are we only able to take extra relics from the Warlords Detachment?
Tyranids yes, GSC no. It's a no on GSC because even though we know it WILL exist the "extra relics" stratagem doesn't technically exist for GSC yet.
Niiai wrote: What are your experiences with sentinels? I would think the armored wariant is outplatformed by a platon of infatery for heavy weapons. But is the scout any interestng?
I like mine as scouts with autocannons. I run 2-3 and use them to deny alpha strikes. The auto cannons are cheap (5 points extra, or 2 points extra if run as guard sentinels). Once they’ve dont their pre-game move I tend to keep the stationary and use the autocannons range to harass the enemy
Arachnofiend wrote: You can use the "get an extra relic" stratagem to get relics from codexes that are not your warlord's.
Question, In the Codex's it states you can take relics if your HQ is the Warlord of the detachment e.g. I am using a GSC/AM/Nids army and have my AM Tank Commander as my Warlord w/ Grand Strategist to gain a CP and Kurovs Aquila to regain CPs.
Would I be able to spend the Extra 1 - 3 CPs to take relics from GSC and Tyranids or are we only able to take extra relics from the Warlords Detachment?
Tyranids yes, GSC no. It's a no on GSC because even though we know it WILL exist the "extra relics" stratagem doesn't technically exist for GSC yet.
So, As long as the army is battle-forged and the Codex's you use has the stratagem to allow extra relics it is perfectly leagal to have a relic in an AM detachment and an extra in the Tyranids Detachment? Or vice-a-versa.
What do people reckon to hand flamers on Acolytes? Given how short the range is, are you running the risk of just making your charges more difficult if you take them? Wonder if they're maybe best on a demo charge unit if so.
I've toyed around with having hand flamers on the rock saw guys in my primus ambush sqaud. Fishing for 5/6 on the cult ambush lets you get in range and only giving them to the rocksaw guys gives you plenty of ablative wounds before you start losing important points. On a related note, is anything stopping me from giving a banner to an acolyte with a heavy weapon? It'd require converting but it'd give me one more wound before the squad starts losing combat effectiveness
I just wonder if you’re putting out hand flamer wounds, you’re potentially just setting yourself up for more difficult charges (because why would you be within 6” of something you're not planning to charge)? I suppose it’s nice to have the auto hits if a combat drags on though…
Q: When a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Daemons
uses the Daemon keyword, can it be used to affect any unit
with the Daemon keyword, or only units with the Daemon
Faction keyword?
A: These Stratagems can only affect units with the
Daemon Faction keyword
watching the faq about stratagems, it said that can only AFFECT units with the Daemon Faction keyword.
The faq about cult genestealer said that they cant USE the tyranids stratagems.
maybe this means that cult genestealer can be affected by tyranids stratagems?
Niiai wrote: What are your experiences with sentinels? I would think the armored wariant is outplatformed by a platon of infatery for heavy weapons. But is the scout any interestng?
I painted two heavy flamer scout ones thinking they'd be really cool, but mostly I just get disappointed when I roll a 2 or 1 for their heavy flamer hits and miss the wound, then they die to bolters / cc.
Niiai wrote: What are your experiences with sentinels? I would think the armored wariant is outplatformed by a platon of infatery for heavy weapons. But is the scout any interestng?
I painted two heavy flamer scout ones thinking they'd be really cool, but mostly I just get disappointed when I roll a 2 or 1 for their heavy flamer hits and miss the wound, then they die to bolters / cc.
Yeah, but that is 100 point to deny deep srtikers first and foremost, is it not?
Niiai wrote: What are your experiences with sentinels? I would think the armored wariant is outplatformed by a platon of infatery for heavy weapons. But is the scout any interestng?
I painted two heavy flamer scout ones thinking they'd be really cool, but mostly I just get disappointed when I roll a 2 or 1 for their heavy flamer hits and miss the wound, then they die to bolters / cc.
Yeah, but that is 100 point to deny deep srtikers first and foremost, is it not?
It definitely helps. I love the models, too, so there is that. They are also 'cover' for my cyclops demolition vehicles that are gonna move up behind - cover in that they're distractions so the cyclopses don't get shot.
What are peoples thoughts on the Rock Grinder so far? I can't really see a use for it, hitting on 5+ only seems pretty weak. Granted, you can take a primus to help with those hit rolls, but for that many points and access to ambushing melee units, I feel like it's not that great a choice.
Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant
Magus [4 PL, 73pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis
++ Total: [121 PL, 1988pts] ++
...Aren't heavy weapons acolytes two for every 5 acolytes? Need some non-rock saw acolytes to make that a legal unit.
It is 2 per 5. That is 11 dudes, 1 leade (12) and 8 rock saw (20). I apreciate the atempted reach around but I was hoping for a post about tactics and not semantics. Thanks though.
His load out looks pretty leagal to me. For every 5 Acolytes you get to make 2 Heavy weapons e.g. Acolyte leader+ 2 Acolytes + 2 Heavy Acolytes. For the next "upgrade" he would just need to add 3 normal Acolytes to get 2 more Heavy Ones. E.g. Leader, 5 Acolytes, 4 Heavies = 10, leader, 8 Acolytes, 6 Heavies = 15 and Leader, 11 Acolytes , 8 Heavies = 20.
So, while the Leader + 11 Acolytes + 8 Heavies looks illegal it is actually quite legal unless there is a restriction on the no. of models per unit.
Niiai wrote: Can I get an opinion on the following army? Would it be viable, or just bad?
My main point of concern with the list is that it might be a touch static outside of the ambushers. Both melee blobs are fairly strong but there isn't much immediate threat saturation to help with their survivability, so odds are they will get a good turn in and be eliminated. That in and of itself isn't entirely bad, just a matter of how well you can capitalize on the damage done.
Also I'd probably drop the mortar from the shotgun squad and have them just act as a screen for the other Neophyte units or ambushers. Shotguns will generally want to be moving constantly so heavy weapons don't have as much usefulness with them as they do with autogun/lasgun squads.
...Aren't heavy weapons acolytes two for every 5 acolytes? Need some non-rock saw acolytes to make that a legal unit.
It's just the unusual formatting. He has 12 regular Acolytes (including Leader) + 8 Rock Saws for a total of 20 (5x4, so 8 heavy weapon allowances), but the formatting makes it look like 11 with 8 Saws and a Leader if you are used to seeing the total body count followed by upgrades.
C4790M wrote:On a related note, is anything stopping me from giving a banner to an acolyte with a heavy weapon? It'd require converting but it'd give me one more wound before the squad starts losing combat effectiveness
Currently there doesn't appear to be anything that would prevent it. Would be a fairly easy conversion to do as well, just take one of the backpacks and attach a banner to it or strap one of the Icons from the upgrade sprue to the icon bearer's back..
zamerion wrote: watching the faq about stratagems, it said that can only AFFECT units with the Daemon Faction keyword.
The faq about cult genestealer said that they cant USE the tyranids stratagems.
maybe this means that cult genestealer can be affected by tyranids stratagems?
Unfortunately the Tyranid FAQ also added that in every instance where a stratagem or other effect has the "Tyranids" keyword it means "Tyranids unit with <Hive Fleet>", so GSC unit can be a legal target.
ajax_xaja wrote:What are peoples thoughts on the Rock Grinder so far? I can't really see a use for it, hitting on 5+ only seems pretty weak. Granted, you can take a primus to help with those hit rolls, but for that many points and access to ambushing melee units, I feel like it's not that great a choice. Thoughts?
Rock Grinders have generally performed well for me in my mechanized lists. They make for a good place to hide HQ models that otherwise have no transport and provide a good overwatch sponge that can contribute a bit on its own (on average adds the same amount of S8 hits as 4 Rock Saws). I tend to have Rock Grinders working in support of my assault infantry, so a Primus is usually around anyway to lend their to-hit boon. Rockgrinders are also fairly fast until they drop to their final bracket so they make a good rapid-response unit as well.
Nazrak wrote: What do people reckon to hand flamers on Acolytes? Given how short the range is, are you running the risk of just making your charges more difficult if you take them? Wonder if they're maybe best on a demo charge unit if so.
I don't think I'll ever take hand flamers on Acolytes. If I take them they have Heavy weapons every time already, they're a big threat and they're usually going after / getting close to high toughness units to charge, so a S3 weapon is kinda useless when short range. I doubt I'd ever get my points back on a hand flamer.
They come with a autopistol already, I mean come on... If the hand flamers were 2-4 points I may consider them. Why take a hand flamer when you could almost get another Acolyte or 2 Neophytes for that!? GSC don't have the armor saves to pay for weapons that are only good if used each turn, and acolytes are usually threat #1 or #2.
Niiai's 20 man Acolytes unit is legal, but I don't think I'd take that many Acolytes in one unit. There is a lot of risk there, if they somehow get badly positioned or are unlucky, it wouldn't take much firepower to wipe nearly 1/4 of your list. Also managing to fit 20 guys 9" inches away from enemies could be a pain in the ! Especially when they want to go after tanks and high Toughness (genestealers don't mind as much + advance and charge).
Currently GSC have so few stratagems to use their CP on. It's not a bad idea to plan on using a primus and the ambush stratagem on turn 1 and turn 2 for 2 big nasty units to come out each time. If 8th edition wasn't so Alpha Strike orientated it would be worth using every turn possible. The turn 2 ambush gives you that chance to try and create a hole or opening to come in from, and can also keep your opponent warry. So I usually save the nastiest unit for turn 2 (usually 6-8 abberants), in the end it just gives you more options.
I haven't used a rockgrinder yet, they're kinda cool in concept but GSC strength is hording infantry that have lots of options. I usually ally guard or Nids and ambush nearly all the GSC. If you take a rockgrinder you kind of want to take a few transports to spread the incoming fire out a bit.
Niiai's 20 man Acolytes unit is legal, but I don't think I'd take that many Acolytes in one unit. There is a lot of risk there, if they somehow get badly positioned or are unlucky, it wouldn't take much firepower to wipe nearly 1/4 of your list. Also managing to fit 20 guys 9" inches away from enemies could be a pain in the ! Especially when they want to go after tanks and high Toughness (genestealers don't mind as much + advance and charge).
Morale is also an issue with so many Acolytes. Having a blob of 20 is definitely going to attract a lot of attention. Even if you kill off the normal ones you could still lose all your Heavies to Morale if you don't use 2cp to auto pass or if you don't have a unit that allows re-rolls or auto passes.
If I was Niiai I would just use 2 units of 10 and split them accordingly. More situational and he could keep one in CA deployment.
Niiai's 20 man Acolytes unit is legal, but I don't think I'd take that many Acolytes in one unit. There is a lot of risk there, if they somehow get badly positioned or are unlucky, it wouldn't take much firepower to wipe nearly 1/4 of your list. Also managing to fit 20 guys 9" inches away from enemies could be a pain in the ! Especially when they want to go after tanks and high Toughness (genestealers don't mind as much + advance and charge).
Currently GSC have so few stratagems to use their CP on. It's not a bad idea to plan on using a primus and the ambush stratagem on turn 1 and turn 2 for 2 big nasty units to come out each time. If 8th edition wasn't so Alpha Strike orientated it would be worth using every turn possible. The turn 2 ambush gives you that chance to try and create a hole or opening to come in from, and can also keep your opponent warry. So I usually save the nastiest unit for turn 2 (usually 6-8 abberants), in the end it just gives you more options.
The unit with a primus clock in at 428. With the stratagem there is 91% chance of it getting a 5 or 6 on the ambush. After that the chances of getting a charge is very big.
That unit will melt anything it hits, it might also be able to kill 2 units if I can pull of a multi charge. I do belive both eldar and SM has the abilaty to shoot units that deep strike.I have not taken that into account, I would like to know more about it.
Also it is the question of what to use for the ambush. The usual suspects is that rocksaw unit, genstealers and abberamts.
I was a huge advocate of abberants, but somebody ran the numbers and the rocksaw unit just came out better vs a lot of targets. Abberants are overkill vs non T8. And genstealers are a sort of all around unit. Genstealers would be better vs the shooting startagems thanks to the 5++.
Asuming I find a way to remove chaff in allies. (Trygon tunnel or mortals in nids and IG.) What is the best unit to bring in turn 2, or 3?
The t2/3 ambush depends on the situation really. Genestealers will shred the infantry and the aberrants mince the armour, with neophytes filling the mid point. Ambush the unit depending on what is exposed
Rattlings we're kinda meh to be honest. They only killed one character all game and I mostly used them to get on objectives and/or line breaker plus scoring cards and what not. I am going to drop them for more Devigaunts because they prefromed pretty well.
Acolytes w/ Primus were good in some situations and meh in others e.g. they knocked 13 wounds off a Wraith Knights, 10 wounds on a Leman Russ and killed another completely. However, when against stuff with 4 toughness they kind of under-preformed and I charged them against Girlyman and only did 3 wounds via the drill and 2 mortal wounds going through.
I will probably drop the drill for another Saw and put the points into another Magus for Mind Control.
Just so people know, I used the Neophytes for anti-deepstriking and then used a CP per turn to re-deploy them onto objectives and line breaker. This tactic really pissed my opponentd off and won me 2 of those Eldar games. It was also the reason I lost the other Eldar game by not rolling a good Cult Ambush.
I'd love to hear more if you are willing. I think that is the first "Genesoup" list I've seen so far with elements of all three together. How did the Hive Tyrants fare? I've not been very impressed with them so far as allies due to how expensive they are relative to just adding more bodies.
I'd love to hear more if you are willing. I think that is the first "Genesoup" list I've seen so far with elements of all three together. How did the Hive Tyrants fare? I've not been very impressed with them so far as allies due to how expensive they are relative to just adding more bodies.
One battle report I saw had a 3 landspeeders with maguses in them as count as hive tyrants. Looked a bit dumb and cool at the same time.
I'd love to hear more if you are willing. I think that is the first "Genesoup" list I've seen so far with elements of all three together. How did the Hive Tyrants fare? I've not been very impressed with them so far as allies due to how expensive they are relative to just adding more bodies.
No problem my friend. This post will be a tad long so everything will be in spoiler tags.
Flyrants
Spoiler:
They preformed pretty well to be honest. I was only bringing them so that I could charge units with Fly Keyword and/or Supersonic rule. The Flyrant with the Chameleonic Mutation Tanked nearly everything that hit it. Having a 4+ invul w/ -1 to hit is pretty good. I mostly casted Catalyst on this Flyrant as well to make it's durability at least 3 times better. It is hard to wound a model with 4+ invul, -1 to hit and a 5+ FnP. I also used a combo of The Horror and Magus's Mass Hypnosis to make units it was charging or mostly likely to be attacked with to have a -3 for shooting and -2 in CC. it never died in any of my games.
The other Flyrant was more Situational. I kind of kept him closer to the Devigaunts to help them Move and advance without taking a -1 to its hit rolls by casting Onslaught and used Paroxysm to buff the other Flyrant in CC scerinos. all of my opponents thought this was a nice Combo of 2 Flyrants but also hated how durable I was able to make one of them.
In fear of going second (which I did in all my games) I usually had the Mutated Flyrant in reserves and fielded the other one so that it could buff the Devigaunts if I was to go 1st. They weren't the best in CC but they held up things with great durability. I was using the Mutated Flyrant to multi-charge 3-5 models a turn so that crippled my Gunline opponents and used the other for scoring objectives or going on random objectives in the hope that my opponent needs it and then has to target this one instead of the Mutated one.
Overall, The Mutated Flyrant would get a 9 out of 10 and the other Flyrant would get an 8 due to it not having as much durability besides healing D3 wounds via Stratagems. I thought of them as durable CC holders rather then CC killers which I think worked out as a better state of mind.
Genestealers
Spoiler:
They preformed better then I expected. I felt like the 5+ invul made them quite durable as I usually lost 3-4 a turn wheres the Devigaunts where losing 7-9 a turn due to a worse save and toughness. I was using them as anti-deepstrike and for maximum board control e.g. I had them set up 8' away from my deployment lines in all games to stop DS in my side of the board and them moved, advanced them in this same formation to gather 1-3 Objectives to halt my opponent from gathering points and getting into my lines. I then charged them into units to hold things up and gather more board control. Gstealers moving 14-20" a turn plus charging another 12 or so inches is mind blowingly fast and dangerous. Obviously they weren't as affective against units with Fly keyword but they usually destroyed everything they charged besides Stuff with T8 or better. I reserved them for my 1st game but where destroyed 1st turn by having my opponent land within the nodes range. This was the reason I lost the 1st game so I promised my self it is better to deploy them naturally rather then in reserves. Unless, its GSC Genestealers and using the Cult Ambush reserve.
Overall, I would give them a 9 out of 10. The only faults they made were because of me. They would be a 10 if I could cult ambush them. But then its 15pts a model vs 12pts a model.
Devigaunts
Spoiler:
These guys were good but definitely have their faults. 26 doing 78 shoots is quite the lump-some of shots to be shot but I never got 1st turn and I usually only started my 1st turn with 15-18 Models so they didnt preform like I wanted. If I had 1st turn and deployed the Mutated Flyrant I would have given them Catalyst but the situation never arose. I think if I brought another unit of them it would made them better because even though one will get depleted I will still have another unit to do the damage. Unless my opponent has enough shots to deal with 60 Devigaunts. They were mostly used as a Screen that went behind the Genestealers during deployment to definitely make sure nothing was deepstriking and to prevent my Platoon Commander and Magus from being charged.
Overall, I would give them 7.5-8 out of 10. They did the damage but didnt do the damage I wanted due to never having them at full strength. I imagine with 2 units they would easily be a 9 but I need more testing to confirm my thoughts.
Biovores
Spoiler:
These guys pack a punch but they need numbers to reliably do it. While having the Spore set up even if you miss is quite the rule it isnt ass effective as it wounds on paper. I mostly wanted them for MW spam so that I didnt have to rely on Smite but most of the time they missed and I had to set up the spore away from the enemy I was targeted and have them get destroyed before they were able to pop. They did stop my opponents from moving into critical places but 3 spores is nothing to worry about if they didnt pop when being shot.
Overall, 3 Biovores in separate FA would only be a 6 out of 10. Having the ability to produce MW is good but when your hitting on 5 or 6s due to moving or Natural -1 and 2s it makes them only okay in what I wanted them to do. If people are to bring Biovores I would recommend people bring them in full size squads to to make sure your getting the most out of them and their MW ability.
Primus w/ Acolythes
Spoiler:
Probably the most swingy unit in that they had the ability to destroy models with T8 or lower but never excelled at their job. Against Models with invul saves , FnP's or whatever some form of -1/2 to hit rolls they just didnt do any solid damage. 6 S8 -4 D 2 attacks hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s was good on paper and preformed well in that form but when agaisnt units with 3+ invuls or 5/6 FnPs they jsut never did the damage they were suppost to which meant they just kinda tied things up for a turn then got smacked off the table. Also, wasting S8 attacks on units with T4-5 felt like a waste of points. The drill was only good in 1 game in that it did 2 MW's on Gulliman. other then that all its damage was saved because my opponents knew they produced MWs on 2+, 3+, 4+ etc. I then though about how the points for the Primus and Acolythes is enough to fund another Tank Commander or Flyrant which made them kind of meh in my eyes.
Overall, I would give this combo a 3-4 out of 10. I think they would preform better if we were able to make every model take Heavy weapons rather then having some do High Strength attacks while some are still only good against T4 or lower models. Would make them better at doing specific jobs rather then being situational at best. I think, for the future, I will stay away from this combo unit the codex is released just to see if it is more reliable. A unit of 10 Normal Acolytes w/ a Primus would have probably preformed better then this mixture of half Heavy Weapons and half normal dudes.
If you guys want this combo to work then bring them as standard Acolythes and leave the S8 weapons to Leman Russes. Primus on his own is pretty decent at making Cult ambush reliable but he isnt all that good at anything else. on his own he would be a 6 out of 10. Very situational but not needed unless using Hammerants.
Neophytes
Spoiler:
Hands down the most underrated unit I brought. 50pts for a unit with Objective Securing that can Deepstrike 6 different ways is a fuqqing Steal. Seriously, everyone should take these guys in tournaments. while I kept 1 unit in CA I used the 2nd unit as my back up screen for my Plat Commander and Magus. I also figured out that most tournament games only last 2-4 turns at most unless using Elite armies. With this in my mind I always had a strategy for my games. Because the Devigaunts and Gstealers look more dangerous no one paid attention to the Neos which let me move my Devigaunts around the board while still having a Screen no one cared for. Also, going 2nd was actually a good thing in most scenarios. Because the game would officially end on my turn I never felt afraid to have these guys on risky objectives or situations like charging units without objective secured because the game would never go past my turn if the game had to end so I had nothing to lose but a lot to gain.
Overall, 10 out of 10. These guys out preformed my expectations which was a really nice surprise and made for some hilarious moments during my games.
Magus
Spoiler:
Mass Hypnosis is the bomb. The fact it was denying Overwatch, granting a -1 to hit and making my enemy hit last in the fight phase made me fall in love with this model. His destruction made all my opponents focus fire him with Snipers units which let my Plat Commander Warlord survive all my games bar 1 which never gave my opponents Warlord killer or StW besides that one guy.
Overall, 9 out of 10. The only issue is that he is rather squishy so if he had a 5+ invul he would be a 10 right away but I guess we have the Patriarch for that extra durability.
Tank Commander
Spoiler:
2D6 plus 2d3 Strength 8 shots is outstanding. While wounding T8 models on 4+ is only okay the a mount of shots you get makes up for this. T8 was also amazing as I only lost them in 1 game (Deployment mistake, I learned that the hard way). The ability to hit on 3s re-rolling 1s or popping smoke to grant them a -1 for the turn is an amazing ability to have at our disposal. Never take a GSC Leman Russ if you can Afford Tank Commanders.
Overall, 10 out of 10, ,y next list has these guys w/ Lascannons so I can only imagine how much better they will get.
Rattlings
Spoiler:
These guys were only okay tbh. They were just basically Neophytes with Heavy Snipers. While having the ability to deepstrike is nice I would of rathered more Neos then these guys as of the weekend. They are probably good in actual AM Regiments but I dont think they preform well with GSC soup lists.
Overall, 4 out of 10. Not much I can say to make them better.
Platoon Commander
Spoiler:
For 20pts you can got wrong with him as a Warlord. Hid behind an anti-deepstriking army with lots of bodies is fun to play. I mostly set him up at the very back of my table edge just so I can make sure no Snipers could target him. I only wished I had given him the 4+ invul relic rather then the 5+ CP if my opponent uses a stratagem. I was getting D3 CPs via the Gstealers on most turns plus re-rolling the CP I spent. While he did die only once It was the reason I placed 14th instead of 11th due to it literally going down to the small details.
Overall, 9 out of 10. The only thing it is missing is a natural Invul save but it is not that hard to get access to one.
I hope this breakdown was helpful and can pass on more information if needed e.g. the games I played and the armies.
The Orlock gang box for Necromunda is out on the 17th of February and it's meant to be compatible with the Genestealer Cult upgrade kit so depending on the weapons they come with that's a third style of Neophytes to add some additional variation. Not sure how likely it is but it could mean some of the more unique weapons in the box may see an appearance in the eventual codex such as the harpoon gun.
Has anyone tried out a Neophyte Spam list with GSC?
Looking at it on paper it has the potential to be really powerful as it could emulate the old conscript spam lists. the general idea would be to spam neos with a couple of patriarchs to make them fearless, then back it up with as much IG arty as possible. Possible list could be:
Detachment 1: GSC Battalion
HQ Patriarch
Magus
Troops
20x neos
20x neos
20x neos
20x neos
Detachment 2: GSC Battalion
HQ Patriarch
Magus
Troops
20x neos
20x neos
20x neos
20x neos
Detachment 3: Astra Militarum Spearhead
Company Commander
Master of Ordinance
2x Manticore
2x Basilisk
2x Basilisk
Obviously this is a rough list. Some neos could be dropped to get some extra equipment on them etc. Also you could swap out the 2 Magus for 2 Primus and have a couple of blobs cult ambush to distract the enemy.
But overall what do you guys think of 160 fearless infantry backed up by 6 big guns? Useless or good?
I'm going to assume you are either are Mordian Glory or were inspired by his video. Love your/his videos FYI, they have been super helpful for in understanding how to use the Guard part of the GSC army.
This army list as posted is a bit one-note. It seems like all your eggs are in the artillery basket and you are counting on them to do all the work while the rest of the points are just there to screen and protect them. The Neophytes are pretty lackluster when it comes to shooting, even with special mining weapons and standing still. How much damage will those 6 artillery tanks really be doing in the first two turns? I don't think they will cripple the opposing army. It seems like too much chaff and not enough wheat. That said my experience with Neophytes is in squads of 10 and I generally accept that they will only do a wound or two with shooting per unit per game.
The Patriarch's are really great but I'm not sure their role is best used as counter-assault units, which is what they look to be doing here - presumably sitting back with your blobs to keep them fearless.
I would suggest not duplicating your 2nd battalion into the 'fighting group' style of thinking. Instead put those points (roughly 625pts) into an aggressive cult ambush detachment that can harass and do real damage up close to the enemy while you bombard them with your artillery. You'll still have 80 squishy fearless neophytes protecting your tanks. But your tactics are more diverse, not just rely on a meat-wall to try and hold off the enemy. Try 20 Genestealers and 6 Abberants (10 Acolytes with 2xRock Saws) with 2 Primus's. Now you've got your hammer and anvil. You may also want to split a few of those 20 man Neophyte Squads into 10's and spam Mortars or Heavy Bolters.
I would suggest dropping the Magus in the 1st detachment for the Iconward so you can re-roll morale saves for the units that get outside of the Patriarch's bubble. Also take the 'Icon of the cult Ascendant' and outfit one Neophyte unit with Shotguns, a Cult Icon for re-roll 1's in CC and take a power weapon for the squad leader for a light counter assault group.
I think splitting your groups of 20's into 10's is a better move because you get more special weapons...which is really the main tactical bonus the GSC infantry get over regular guard.
So i libared all my genestealers from the cardbord storage. I am in a levithan pattern. I am also starting GSC in leviathan colour, but a yellow orange inatead of the red. Now i am finishing these 40 genestealera. Should i paint 20 of them as GSC genestealers (orange claws) to take them with a primus, or keep all 40 as leviatan?
I am looking to start a new project and play some 40k with some friends so I picked up a box of acolytes and a box of neophytes. As someone who doesn't play GW games that often, I'm completely overwhelmed by how many options I have to assemble. I've read through this thread but everyone seems to have different opinions on how to equip their troops. How should I build these 15 models as someone starting the faction?
I have bought the GSC Battleforce and nearly done painting them and I want to get them on the table.
I also bought a Leman Russ and 8 Genestealers.
What kind of a list I can make from them or what tactics to use?
Im quite new to all of this so don't really know much about GSC but man, I'm in love with the models.
This is my very short summary of the common reccomendations that I find often comes up in listbuilding and strategy discussions.
Three really good assault units:
15-20 purestrains. Best unit we have.
10-15 acolytes with as many rock saws as possible. Good against many different targets, dies quickly.
5-8 Aberrants with hammers. Best against superheavy vehicles.
Primus. Used as a delivery service for reliably cult ambushing the three assault units. Take two, and ambush one unit each turn with the stratagem Meticulous Uprising. Recycle the first one with Return to the Shadows to ambush a unit the third turn.
Patriarch. If you have several units of purestrains one can run with a Patriarch.
Magus. Our spells are fun. Mass Hypnosis is a good support for the assault units. Keep near a GSC unit for Unquestioning Loyalty.
Leman Russ. Take several in AM detachment for orders and more options.
AM infantry is like Neophytes but cheaper and can use Orders.
Neophytes. They don't really kill much, and they die easily. take 10 with only autoguns, or with 2 grenadelaunchers and/or 2 mining lasers. You can instead have 8 shotguns and 2 flamers. Cult ambush them on objectives.
Scout Sentinels with H-flamers or lascannons. (GSC or AM)
AM Bullgryns, mauls and both types of shields. Good synergy with our agressive playstyle. Give them a priest and maybe an astropath to buff them.
AMHW-teams with 3 mortars or 2mortars+1lascannon. Stays on objectives and does a little damage.
Chimera is best troop transport. Double heavy flamer will hit things.
Goliath rockgrinder with incinerator is fun and somewhat useful. Add 5 acolytes with 2 demo charges or 2 rock saws as bonus damage.
Goliath truck with shotguns+flamers neophytes is also fun and somewhat useful.
The more vehicles (transports and russes) you have, the more valuable each vehicle will be. Because target Saturation.
Basic strategy:
Deploy several tanks with AM-infantry around them to be bubble wrap for your tanks. Try to concentrate their fire to either open up paths for your assaulting units or to destroy dangerous targets.
Deploy scout sentinels, bullgryns, magus and extra units of genestealers to the front. Spread out scout sentinels with scout move to make it harder to deepstrike near your valuable units.
Each turn cult ambush one of the dangerous assault units with primus and Meticulous Uprising. They should kill something important. Genestealers might even survive to your next turn. Try to support with mass hypnosis, or soak up overwatch fire with a vehicle charging first.
Advance bullgryns, magus with unit and any transported units.
Bonus things:
One unit of neophytes with shotguns + 2 flamers and a power pick stay behind to counter assault enemy infantry.
Use "Return to shadows" to move around units to where they can hold objectives/annoy the enemy.
We can build a decent army completely without vehicles. That might be useful against enemies with a lot of anti tank firepower.
2 squads of 20 neophytes and a Patriarch between them is a decent bubble wrap and counter assault unit.
There are good advice for mixing with tyranid units as well, but I know too little about them.
Final words.
At the moment we are not a very competitive force. With lucky ambush rolls we can win, with unlucky ambush rolls we are in a very rough place. We are sort of waiting for the codex to be released, and we can't really know what is going to be good and useful by then. So don't worry too much about it, build what you think looks cool and enjoy the game.
No problem my friend. This post will be a tad long so everything will be in spoiler tags.
Thanks for the summaries! Bit curious about your evaluation of Acolytes given that their relative flexibility in viable targets has been viewed as a benefit compared to the more single-minded Aberrants, but it makes sense given the context of the rest of the list. Having Might from Beyond available probably would have helped them out a bit since the extra strength and attacks makes the Saws much scarier. Also like seeing that the Drill performed reasonably well. I'm still painting up a few for testing.
Regarding the Magus, did you remember Unquestioning Loyalty? In some regards it is comparable to a 4+ invul but it also works against mortal wounds too.
Niiai wrote:So i libared all my genestealers from the cardbord storage. I am in a levithan pattern. I am also starting GSC in leviathan colour, but a yellow orange inatead of the red. Now i am finishing these 40 genestealera. Should i paint 20 of them as GSC genestealers (orange claws) to take them with a primus, or keep all 40 as leviatan?
I painted my cult to match my Tyranids so I could use the 'stealers interchangeably. Unless you are running a mixture of Hive Fleet Genestealers and Purestrains and need a way to tell them apart they should be fine with the Leviathan paint scheme.
Niiai wrote:40 gs. Are some gsc or not?
Looks like they are the Genestealer Box/Space Hulk sculpts. The version that comes in the Overkill box is a hybrid between the original plastic Genestealers and the 4th edition sculpt. Realistically though, any Genestealer is appropriate.
neenj wrote:I am looking to start a new project and play some 40k with some friends so I picked up a box of acolytes and a box of neophytes. As someone who doesn't play GW games that often, I'm completely overwhelmed by how many options I have to assemble. I've read through this thread but everyone seems to have different opinions on how to equip their troops. How should I build these 15 models as someone starting the faction?
Welcome! I would probably run the Acolytes with 2x Demolition Charges and build the Neophytes with Shotguns with the Leader taking a melee weapon of some sort (Autogun/Lasgun equipped models are fairly easy to get but shotguns are exclusive to the industrial Neophyte box). That way you have two basic squads with relatively low points cost and can build duplicates of special weapons for them with the next box (probably will want 2x Mining Lasers, 2x Seismic Cannons, 2x Grenade Launchers, 2x Flamers for the Neophytes and 2x Rock Saws for Acolytes).
Araablane wrote:I have bought the GSC Battleforce and nearly done painting them and I want to get them on the table. I also bought a Leman Russ and 8 Genestealers. What kind of a list I can make from them or what tactics to use? Im quite new to all of this so don't really know much about GSC but man, I'm in love with the models.
Hard to give a specific list without knowing how things were built, but in general I'd probably look towards putting Acolytes + Primus in the Rockgrinder/Genestealers + Patriarch/Magnus in the Chimera and drive them up the board while the Neophyte squads ambush into good positions and the Russ sits back lending fire support.
While the Primus is an excellent way to control ambushing, their +1 to hit bubble is a huge boon for the Rockgrinder and will give the small Acolyte unit better hitting power than their squad size would suggest. Meanwhile, the Patriarch and 'stealers provide a strong blender unit with access to both Might from Beyond and Mass Hypnosis available. Lastly, the Russ and Neophytes provide fire support to weaken targets for the melee units and clear opposing screening units.
Mellon wrote: Neophytes. They don't really kill much, and they die easily. take 10 with only autoguns, or with 2 grenadelaunchers and/or 2 mining lasers. You can instead have 8 shotguns and 2 flamers. Cult ambush them on objectives.
Chapter Approved made Siesmic Cannons fairly viable now as a generalist tool also. I've generally found Neophytes aren't too bad at killing other infantry (2x Grenade Launcher, 2x Seismic Cannon actually outshoots Guardsmen), they just can't be expected to do more than a wound or two vs big things.
Mellon wrote: Goliath truck with shotguns+flamers neophytes is also fun and somewhat useful.
From my experience, anything with a bias towards their ranged weapons will more or less prefer a Goliath Truck since it allows them to use said weapons while embarked. I'd actually probably put the Shotgun/Flamer units in a Chimera instead since they need to get close for full effect while the Goliath will generally want to hang back a bit. That said, Goliaths are more or less mandatory for Acolyte demolition squads since it is the most reliable way to get them in range to blow stuff up and can contribute an additional bomb itself.
Mellon wrote: There are good advice for mixing with tyranid units as well, but I know too little about them.
Tyranids offer a lot of flexibility but in general support aggressive armies. They can bring a lot of cheap, fearless bodies and get them into combat fairly quickly which is great for Ambushing units as it adds more threat overload. Tyranids also have a noticeable lack of high damage melee infantry which GSC can provide in the form of Aberrants and Acolytes. Lastly, Tyranids bring a lot of tools to counter psychic powers (Shadow in the Warp, Kronos) and a plethora of mortal wound generation for countering units with good invulnerable saves.
Thanks for the summaries! Bit curious about your evaluation of Acolytes given that their relative flexibility in viable targets has been viewed as a benefit compared to the more single-minded Aberrants, but it makes sense given the context of the rest of the list. Having Might from Beyond available probably would have helped them out a bit since the extra strength and attacks makes the Saws much scarier. Also like seeing that the Drill performed reasonably well. I'm still painting up a few for testing.
Regarding the Magus, did you remember Unquestioning Loyalty? In some regards it is comparable to a 4+ invul but it also works against mortal wounds too.
The reason I scored Acolytes so low is because of their 5+ save and only 3 toughness. While they look good with the ability to either go infantry killer or half Tank/Infantry killer they just under preformed for me. Might be because I pinned them against really strong units with good saves or FnP type abilities but they didn't last longer then 2 turns in all those games.
I could have given them Might from Beyond but the issue was that if they did die (which they did in all of my games) what would my next MfB target be? Mass Hypnosis was a better pysker power because it affect Overwatch rather then any specific unit so it allowed Magus to help my Nids and AM detachments rather then MfBwhich only targets GSC infantry units and once they are gone your only target is the caster.
I also never used Unquestioning Loyalty because I needed my Neophytes in full units so that when they charged a you it after Cult ambushing I would have more modles which made me objective secured over my opponents battle-torn units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What I like about Abberants is that they have lower modles which means it easier to buff them and Deploy them. They also reduce all damage taken by one so out that with an Iconwards 6+ FnP and they become stupidity resilient. Only bad thing about them is that when one dies you have no "tax" models that you can put the damage on to make sure these models last as long as possible.
Acolytes are pretty much to the total opposite of Abberants. Can have mass numbers (20 modles per unit at Max), can take on both infantry type units and Tank-type units, can pay to re-rolling 1s for fighting and of something takes damage they have tax modles that let you put damage where you want it. Issue is that it is hard to buff them in bigger numbers and if Cult ambushing them having more is harder to CA when the area your deploying is could be restricted by other enemy units
I would probably bring Acolytes in Trucks and Rockgrinder from now on if I was to bring them for tournament type situations.
I played a game last night which was admittedly mostly using my tyranids with a small GSC portion. reports in spoilers:
Spoiler:
My game last night was practise with a team mate for an upcoming GT.
I was running my Tyranids/GSC friends and he was running Admech+Custodes.
My list:
Kraken battalion
Flyrant-devourers and claws, adrenal, onslaught and psychic scream, chameleonic
Neurothrope-catalyst
20 stealers
2x3 rippers
29 termagants-20 devourers
2x3 meiotic spores
Kronos Spearhead
Malanthrope-warlord, soul hunger (he had no psykers but event makes you select warlord trait on your list so I played it as it is.)
6 Hive guard-impalers
Exocrine
3x1 biovores
GSC Patrol
Magus-Mass Hypnosis
17 Stealers-13 talons (WYSIWYG, will be upping to 17 eventually)
neophytes-lasguns and a mortar team
His list:
Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
5 dakkabots
3x Neutronagers
Mars Battalion
2x cheapo enginseer hq’s
3x10 rangers
Custodes supreme command:
3 shield captains on bikes. Warlord was here with 3++ and 5+FNP
We were playing chapter approved mission 1 and the short board edges pointy deployment (names escape me) Note: where we are playing the terrain is terrible. So in prep this was on a board with two small ruins and 3 forests. That’s it for terrain. No BLOS at all.
I used my deepstrike drops (all the GSC, flyrant, rippers) to see where he was going, using single biovores dropped in the backfield until he was down with the crucial robots.
Built a firebase of hive guard, exocrine and biovores cuddling the malanthrope in some ruins. All 37” away from the robots so if he got first turn he would have to move to shoot them. Including malanthrope buff I’ll take re-rollable 6’s to hit me. Neurothrope central surrounded by termagants. Genestealers loitering out of range.
We roll off and he gets first turn. That’s not ideal.
I put my meiotic spores 12” away from him anyway. Pretty pointless but thought I’d see if he was daft enough to not kill them.
Eddies Turn One:
He moved up with his screen, pushing up to block my deep strikes as best as possible. His custodes stayed behind his screen as the whole army moved up. Using his techpriests to block me out of his backfield.
He popped the stratagem to flip the robots into double fire mode, locking them down for the game.
His onagers let fly and oh boy were they hot. 3 onagers, all rolled max shots, all hit, all wounded. Dead exocrine, 3 dead hive guard. Ouch!
Fortunately his robots were less hot and somehow just killed 1 hive guard and wounded another.
The rest of his shooting predictably picked up the meiotic spores.
Reasonably pleased the turn passes to me.
My turn one:
Stealers pop movement stratagem and finish 1” from the screen.
Termagants mill around a bit, moving up but not close enough to achieve much. Then reserves. Rippers stay at home, the rest drops in. Pop the meticulous uprising stratagem on the purestrains and get that 6. They line up 1” away from his screen too. Magus tags along for the ride. Flyrant drops on the other side to draw his forces into two halves. Neophytes join the flyrant because why not.
Psychic phase I catalyst the stealer, smite and psychic scream some screening rangers. Importantly I get mass hypnosis on the robots.
I shoot some more holes into the screens and take 5 wounds off an onager with what remains of my gunline.
Charge phase: purestrains charge in and take 2 rangers units, robots and one of the custodes (couldnt possibly clip the robots without letting the custode heroically intervene so might as well tag him so I can hit him.)
Other stealers grab the same 2 rangers units, robots and another custode (same issue)
Flyrant makes a long bomb into the last rangers unit (already depleted)
I target the custodes as much as possible as they will obviously be problematic at some stage. One takes 2 wounds, the other takes 4. Jesus these things are tough. I also do a sneaky consolidation into an onager.
Both units of stealers take minimal damage back.
Through morale and leftover attacks the 3 rangers units are all removed.
Eddies turn 2:
He falls back with both custodes, jumping over into my lines. The third custode comes over to play with the flyrant. The engaged onager falls back. Cawl moves up to shoot the flyrant with his sunshine gun.
This turn largely revolves around shooting at the flyrant and the flyrant not caring.
The custodes on the other side of the board cleans up the magus who foolishly stood 6.5 inches from a gsc unit so they didn’t fancy jumping in front of the hurricane bolter for him.
In combat the custode which didn’t fall back charged the flyrant and they mostly shouted at each other. The flyrant ended the turn on 11 wounds. The custode was unscathed.
The genestealers whaled on the robots for a bit. Killed 3 of them.
My turn two:
Kraken stealers fall back from the robots towards the onagers. The flyrant hope out of combat and makes the 5 wound custodes closest target.
Neurothrope moves to make the 3 wound custode the closest. Termgants move up some more as do the neophytes.
Psychic phase I do 1 wound to each custode……with two smites and psychic scream. Despite burning a command point on a re-roll.
All the biovores shoot the 2 wound custode. No damage…..Hive guard shoots him. No damage.
Termagants and flyrant shoot the 4 wound custode. No damage. Seriously?
Assault the stealers charge all 3 onagers. The flyrant charges the damaged custode.
Stealers take a chunk out of an onager, purestrains kill another robot. Flyrant does 1 wound on the custode (really?) in return I lose a couple of stealers and the flyrant takes 3 wounds.
Eddies turn 3:
Nobody falls back, the 2 wound custode moves up to dakka the neurothrope. The admech characters go to clear the stealers off the onagers.
Shooting phase the custode does 3 wounds to the neurothrope.
Assault he charges the neurothrope and puts the unscathed custode into the flyrant too. All the characters charge the genestealers.
Neurothrope dies (proving at least one of us can fail 3++) to the custode who piles into the last hive guard (one died earlier, cant remember how.) Flyrant takes 1 wound from the custodes and kills the wounded custode.
The stealers finish off the first onager and are in turn cleaned up by cawl and friends.
Purestrains kill the last robot.
My turn 3:
Purestrains move to tie up the onagers again. Flyrant hops out of combat and positions to smite and mess with the unharmed custode.
Rippers drop onto objectives.
All the dakka lines up to shoot him too.
Smite and psychic scream take 3 wounds off the custode.
Dakka does nothing to him.
The bivores finally kill the wounded custode nearby to them.
Stealers charge and tie up the onagers again (and grab an enginseer who was in the way)
Neophytes heroically run into the custode overwatch so the flyrant doesn’t have to. They are heros.
Flyrant takes 2 more wounds off the custode. The custode either kills him this round or next.
Stealers wound the enginseer and knocks an onager down some.
Turns 4-7:
It all sort of blurs here. The flyrant dies to the custode who takes 62 2+ saves without failing any from dakka. Hes eventually killed by spore mines.
The purestrains eventually die to cawl and friends who heal each other.
A damaged onager makes a run for the objectives but is eventually finished off by a malanthrope whipping his tail back and forth.
Game ends with him having 2 enginseers and cawl.
I have the neophyte mortar team, 8 termagants, enough rippers to hold objectives, malanthope, 3 biovores and 1 hive guard.
He has first blood.
I have warlord, linebreaker, a 1t objective and 2 2pt objectives.
Extremely violent and bloody but a 7-1 victory to the hive mind.
The event I'm practising for has very very little terrain and I'm finding the purestrains combined with meticulous uprising invaluable for locking down gunlines before they can do too much damage.
Originally I had a primus in there for re-rolling the ambush but found I didn't need it and it actually tempted me to re-roll 5's (a perfectly adequate result) fishing for that 6. I'm happier with the magus to shut down overwatch and saving a CP for incase I need a re-roll on the ambush.
I am gluing together my neophytes. I dont know what weapons to give them. One I asume will get the 2 mining lasers and grenade launcher. I do not know about ther other..
I don't know what to put on the 2nd group of neophytes. I plan to scale the list up and down on points. I can iclude ripper swarms, so just 10 naked neophytes seems like a waste.
Guys, I've assemled my 7edition GSC army for the game I play tomorrow.
Seems kinda weak.
Any comments?
Spoiler:
Is there any way right now to take both Genecult artefact and Kurov's aquila in the same army if I have IG warlord?
If only games workshop gave us generic stratagem for extra relics. :(
I will try to stretch my ambush over couple turns to allow Primus to jump back and forth for extra miticulous planner value.
Unfortunately the core of my GSC army comes from the Overkill box, so I lack extra heroes and kinda reluctant to expand collection before we get codex.
Fan67 wrote: Guys, I've assemled my 7edition GSC army for the game I play tomorrow.
Seems kinda weak.
Any comments?
Spoiler:
Is there any way right now to take both Genecult artefact and Kurov's aquila in the same army if I have IG warlord?
If only games workshop gave us generic stratagem for extra relics. :(
I will try to stretch my ambush over couple turns to allow Primus to jump back and forth for extra miticulous planner value.
Unfortunately the core of my GSC army comes from the Overkill box, so I lack extra heroes and kinda reluctant to expand collection before we get codex.
You can definitely have 2 relics. Just make your IG relic your 2nd one and use 1CP from the IG Stratagems to use an extra relic. You can also 5+ the CP you used for Kurovs Aquila once you take it as your 2nd relic.
I would also buy the Battleforce box for GSC as it is quite the steal. Nothing in our army will get worse once the codex comes out. So, there should be no issue buying yourself more models.
Speaking of Codex's, wouldn't it be amazing if we could take our own Tank Commanders and name them Cult Commanders? Would be awesome to have our Russ's hitting on 3s.
You can definitely have 2 relics. Just make your IG relic your 2nd one and use 1CP from the IG Stratagems to use an extra relic. You can also 5+ the CP you used for Kurovs Aquila once you take it as your 2nd relic.
Well, yeah, but in order to do this I need to change my Warlord from IG to GSC, and GSC warlord traits suck, while Grand Strategist feels important (but I have no idea what I am going to do with all these CP - probably should have taken one serious IG squad to spent CP on. Lemon Bus propably or Wyvern to go through the screening units).
I probably will dump a lot of CP for charge rerolls and morale of the larger units, so some extra points won't hurt.
Although I can see how legendary fighter and the icon of the cult ascendant can be useful as well.
You can definitely have 2 relics. Just make your IG relic your 2nd one and use 1CP from the IG Stratagems to use an extra relic. You can also 5+ the CP you used for Kurovs Aquila once you take it as your 2nd relic.
Well, yeah, but in order to do this I need to change my Warlord from IG to GSC, and GSC warlord traits suck, while Grand Strategist feels important (but I have no idea what I am going to do with all these CP - probably should have taken one serious IG squad to spent CP on. Lemon Bus propably or Wyvern to go through the screening units).
I probably will dump a lot of CP for charge rerolls and morale of the larger units, so some extra points won't hurt.
Although I can see how legendary fighter and the icon of the cult ascendant can be useful as well.
Fair enough point. I think if you are using an IG Warlord for Grand Strategist then you will not need K.Aquils because GS grants a 5+ for every CP used e.g. if you spend 3 you get to roll 3 dice. while K.Aquila lets you gain a CP on a 5+ your opponent uses a stratagem e.g. if they use a Stratagem worth 2CP you only get to roll 1d6 to gain a CP on a 5+.
just use IG as your warlord and use the GSC relic.
just use IG as your warlord and use the GSC relic.
As per current rule set this is impossible, because GSC lacks extra relic stratagem.
You can either have GSC warlord and relic, and buy IG relic with CP, or otherwise stuck with IG general and IG relics with no access to GSC banner.
Well... today I lost to drop GK+BA (plus couple of assassins).
Anihilated death company with accolytes, but couldn’t withstand the amount of bolter drill and smite spam from GK.
I went first, so he waited till turn 3 and obliterated me.
Really wanted that Aquila Strongpoint from my Chaos army.
Missions were Ascension (lol) and Race for Victory, both from Chapter Approved.
Had very thematically appropriate terrain this time
Fan67 wrote:Well... today I lost to drop GK+BA (plus couple of assassins). Anihilated death company with accolytes, but couldn’t withstand the amount of bolter drill and smite spam from GK.
Did they remember Grey Knights only get 1 mortal wound per Smite (barring Purifiers) from their Rites of Banishment rule? I've seen a few people who overlooked that little detail and it skewed their matches quite a bit... Even still, all the storm bolters do make Grey Knights obnoxious to deal with unless you go heavy on the mechanized elements (Our local Grey Knight absolutely hates my Goliath-spam lists, just too many metal boxes to chew through before his anti-infantry weapons can do any work).
Apart from that how well balanced did the new missions feel? I have not had an opportunity to play them yet but they look interesting.
Fan67 wrote: Had very thematically appropriate terrain this time
Spoiler:
Beautiful miniatures! Wish mine were as cleanly done as that (alas, no airbrush).
Odrankt wrote: Practicing some lists for my tournament scene. Any one have any tips to make this list better?
Looks good apart from perhaps your Hive Fleet adaption. With the forces you have I don't think you are really getting much from Kronos apart from its additional psychic defense. Besides the obvious Kraken, Hydra might actually be a good fit. Genestealers love the reroll to hit ability and Hydra has the relic Deathspitters for one of your Tyrants. If you just need the psychic defense, you could try fiddling around with the points to make room for a Fortification Network detachment and a Kronos Sporocyst. It doesn't require synapse oversight, never moves so it always benefits from the adaptation, and spits out additional Kronos Spore Mine and Mucolid Spores to spread out the area of influence for The Deepest Shadow stratagem. Bit fragile, but you can drop it somewhere safe and churn out Spore Mines or else plop it down aggressively and force the enemy to deal with it or drown in a cloud of mortal wound dealing bombs.
Wish there was room to include more than a token GSC presence, but with the amount of Genestealers and tanks it should still look like a GSC army even if it is technically mostly allies.
Looks good apart from perhaps your Hive Fleet adaption. With the forces you have I don't think you are really getting much from Kronos apart from its additional psychic defense. Besides the obvious Kraken, Hydra might actually be a good fit. Genestealers love the reroll to hit ability and Hydra has the relic Deathspitters for one of your Tyrants. If you just need the psychic defense, you could try fiddling around with the points to make room for a Fortification Network detachment and a Kronos Sporocyst. It doesn't require synapse oversight, never moves so it always benefits from the adaptation, and spits out additional Kronos Spore Mine and Mucolid Spores to spread out the area of influence for The Deepest Shadow stratagem. Bit fragile, but you can drop it somewhere safe and churn out Spore Mines or else plop it down aggressively and force the enemy to deal with it or drown in a cloud of mortal wound dealing bombs.
Wish there was room to include more than a token GSC presence, but with the amount of Genestealers and tanks it should still look like a GSC army even if it is technically mostly allies.
Yeah I thought Kronos Stratagem lasted a whole turn rather then 1 time use. With that in mind I am looking at either Behemoth for re-rolling charges. Kraken for 3 dice rolls for advancing as well as the Stratagem to double up 1 of those dice. Or, Leviathan to to give everything 6+ FnP if within range of the Flyrants.
I never thought of Hydra though. Ability to re-roll hit rolls might be clutch. Only issue is that I would need the Stealers to be in combat to make use of this.
Fortification detach. Of Kronos Sporocyst sound lethal! Never thought of it and it is such a great idea. If I was to run it I would probably drop the AM Detachment though and just use straight GSC Russ's.
To be fair, the lack of GSC is because I am focusing on a list I can bring to the singles event at ETC and while my GSC is basically a "tax" Detachment it is the glue that binds the rest of my army working together.
However, if I was to drop the AM and went for something like this do you think it would preform just as well?
I never thought of Hydra though. Ability to re-roll hit rolls might be clutch. Only issue is that I would need the Stealers to be in combat to make use of this.
I've been experimenting a bit with Hydra and I've found them to be better than I initially thought, though they do have a strong bias towards infantry swarms over monsters which makes them a bit less flexible than the others. If you have points left over you could also use their version of the Endless Swarm stratagem to respawn a 'stealer unit in the opponent's backfield after it is destroyed (one nice thing about it, respawned units pop up 6'' from any board edge - basically outflank).
To be fair, the lack of GSC is because I am focusing on a list I can bring to the singles event at ETC and while my GSC is basically a "tax" Detachment it is the glue that binds the rest of my army working together.
I know and it is quite understandable. The comment was meant as a minor lament rather than a criticism. I think the first list is probably going to do "soup" better, though I like the second one too. Main thing is the first gives you lots of CP regeneration from both the AM and Tyranids (Feeder Tendrils) and you have the Neophytes to bodyguard the Magus when he ambushes (opens up Mind Control as an option too if your opponent has a good target for it). I've not really had a chance to play with our Cult Russes, but I have been on the receiving end of Tank Commanders enough to know they are a royal pain to deal with.
Fan67 wrote:Well... today I lost to drop GK+BA (plus couple of assassins).
Anihilated death company with accolytes, but couldn’t withstand the amount of bolter drill and smite spam from GK.
Did they remember Grey Knights only get 1 mortal wound per Smite (barring Purifiers) from their Rites of Banishment rule? I've seen a few people who overlooked that little detail and it skewed their matches quite a bit... Even still, all the storm bolters do make Grey Knights obnoxious to deal with unless you go heavy on the mechanized elements (Our local Grey Knight absolutely hates my Goliath-spam lists, just too many metal boxes to chew through before his anti-infantry weapons can do any work).
Apart from that how well balanced did the new missions feel? I have not had an opportunity to play them yet but they look interesting.
Beautiful miniatures! Wish mine were as cleanly done as that (alas, no airbrush).
Yeah, it wasn't the first time I faced GK. They yield remarkbale number of MW from Smites due to the sheer number of casts, but Purge Soul mechanic, Banner of Refining Flame and Brother-captain doubing the range of smite - that's all more that enough compensates for the limitations of the Rites of Banishment and helps to pile up the number of MW which is very hard to deal with. Astral Aim on a 10 man strike squad is also crucial to deny, but GSC alone lacks reliable counter to psychic army, while GK just put Culexus amid themselves with no drawback, which along with +1 bonus to cast from Brotherhood of Psykers requires GSC to roll +4 higher than initial cast roll... it's just dirty.
<here is the mandatory rant about culexus not hurthing friendly psykers>
Thank you for the compliment. I love my GSC army, which is essentialy a Deathwatch Overkill box expanded with several genestealers from Space Hulk, a rockgrinder and the 4 boxes of accolytes/metamorphes.
Looking forward to the Codex so I can safely expand my collection.
I never thought of Hydra though. Ability to re-roll hit rolls might be clutch. Only issue is that I would need the Stealers to be in combat to make use of this.
I've been experimenting a bit with Hydra and I've found them to be better than I initially thought, though they do have a strong bias towards infantry swarms over monsters which makes them a bit less flexible than the others. If you have points left over you could also use their version of the Endless Swarm stratagem to respawn a 'stealer unit in the opponent's backfield after it is destroyed (one nice thing about it, respawned units pop up 6'' from any board edge - basically outflank).
While that is a sound strategy I Dont know if I will have 180-240pt spare to use for reinforcements on. I could swap a unit out with a unit of ripper swarms to save those pts but not sure if it is a wise move. I will play test it atleast and come back with a better idea on Hydra Flyrants + Stealers.
To be fair, the lack of GSC is because I am focusing on a list I can bring to the singles event at ETC and while my GSC is basically a "tax" Detachment it is the glue that binds the rest of my army working together.
I know and it is quite understandable. The comment was meant as a minor lament rather than a criticism. I think the first list is probably going to do "soup" better, though I like the second one too. Main thing is the first gives you lots of CP regeneration from both the AM and Tyranids (Feeder Tendrils) and you have the Neophytes to bodyguard the Magus when he ambushes (opens up Mind Control as an option too if your opponent has a good target for it). I've not really had a chance to play with our Cult Russes, but I have been on the receiving end of Tank Commanders enough to know they are a royal pain to deal with.
You are fine my friend. No criticism taken. I understand you point though as this is the GSC tactics page not Specifically Nids/Am The main reason I take Am is for Grand Strategist Warlord trait because regaining CPs on a 5+ is totally amazing and you should definitely do it if you can. Second reason is because of Tank Commanders. While more expensive they have a better BS skill and grant re-rolling ones to other Russ's including themselfs so in regards to GSC Russ's it probably always better to go AM if you can.
I like Mind Control cause you can take over an enemy unit that next to their Warlord and just use the closest model to attack it. Not a bad option to have. I just think Mass Hypnosis is more situational though.
Thank you for the compliment. I love my GSC army, which is essentialy a Deathwatch Overkill box expanded with several genestealers from Space Hulk, a rockgrinder and the 4 boxes of accolytes/metamorphes.
Looking forward to the Codex so I can safely expand my collection.
Spoiler:
Those models are an inspiration! Thank-you so much for posting such nice detailed photos. I too lack an airbrush but I'm pretty happy with what I've accomplished. I'll post when I'm done my army....3 Sentinels, 2 Rockgrinders and a Leman Russ to go.
Lots of great comments in the thread - I actually am writing up a personal GSC index review myself. I started with HQ models - check it out here. If you have any thoughts let me know on the blog for sure!
Edit: I finished my thoughts on Troop choices and Dedicated Transports as well, here.
Have had my GSC packed since 7th while I work on a DG army, I see a lot talk about rock saws now, I thought the 1.1 FAQ gave them -1 to hit?
Mine are modeled with rock drills, mostly because that's the only bit that I could find to buy, and sure as gak wasn't going to buy entire boxes for 1 saw each(my army is almost entirely converted overkill boxes), and when I built them drills didn't have -1 to hit so seemed like a good go.
So I've got two units of, 10 acolytes with an icon and 2 drills each.
How terrible is this load-out with current rules, or are they still workable?
Just hack the drill bit off and glue on an ork buzzsaw, it’s what I did with all my non-saw rock weapons. As it is, it turns out to be roughly the same points per wound but you have significantly more expensive units, which is suboptimal when the saws acolytes are already expensive
Pages 116 and 144 – Heavy rock cutter
Add the following to the Abilities text:
‘When attacking with this weapon, you must subtract 1
from the hit roll.’
Danny slag wrote: Have had my GSC packed since 7th while I work on a DG army, I see a lot talk about rock saws now, I thought the 1.1 FAQ gave them -1 to hit?
Niiai beat me to the exact quote from the FAQ. But yeah, the only weapon that suffers the to hit penalty is the Rock Cutters. I think originally they added the penalty to justify their being cheaper than the Rock Saws despite their added abilities, though even post Chapter Approved they do still have the potential to do more damage total due to their ability. As for Rock Saws, they saw a fairly heavy cost reduction in Chapter Approved which made them a lot more appealing as a general purpose melee weapon. Acolytes currently are a lot like the melee equivalent of a Devastator marine squad, you can run them without special weaponry but their main strength is the flexibility granted by their unique weapons, hence Saws being popular since they are one of the cheapest ways to fill those "slots".
Danny slag wrote: So I've got two units of, 10 acolytes with an icon and 2 drills each. How terrible is this load-out with current rules, or are they still workable?
I don't think that is a terrible build, but how effective it will be depends on what you are throwing them against. Against big targets they should do about as well as a similar unit equipped with 4x Rock Saws due to the mortal wound chain (likely better if invulnerable saves or wound negation abilities are in play) but they aren't going to be as efficient chopping up single/two wound infantry since there are less special weapons in the unit.
mugginns wrote: Edit: I finished my thoughts on Troop choices and Dedicated Transports as well, here.
Very nice write ups! If I may make one slight nitpick with the second one, the Demolition Cache on the Goliaths does not require the unit embarked be equipped with Demolition Charges, it just needs a unit to be riding (like the Chimera's Lasgun Arrays). I am personally rather fond of 10-man Acolyte squads with 4 Demolition Charges riding in a Goliath. Bit pricy, but it delivers a nice alpha strike and the Acolytes can pile out to go pick on things in melee afterwards.
Is anyone a fan of Hybrid Metamorphs? I've been playing with them 10 model unit recently and really enjoy them backed by an Icon against armor or MEQ. They feel versatile enough in my meta.
Resipsa131 wrote: Is anyone a fan of Hybrid Metamorphs? I've been playing with them 10 model unit recently and really enjoy them backed by an Icon against armor or MEQ. They feel versatile enough in my meta.
I've not had much luck with Metamorphs, but I also haven't used them as much since 8th dropped. Genestealers broadly speaking do mass attacks better while Acolytes bring higher strength and good AP with their special weapons. Whip-morphs do compare fairly well to Genestealers but the others are a touch too expensive for what they do and the lack of AP reduces a lot of their killing power.
Still, glad to hear you are having some success with them.
We were playing the 1st maelstrom missions from Chapter Approved. Where you draw 3 object cards and every enemy unit killed grants and extra VP.
I won 12 VP vs 7 VP due to getting 1st blood, slay the Warlord, getting 4 objectives (one was to defend an objective) and killing 3 units completely - Flyrant, Broodlord and the Gargoyles
What went down?
Well,
Turn 1, Flyrant moved and advance 22", casted the ability to charge even if advanced, charged one of my Russ's and brought it down to 2 wounds. I fell back the Russ and charged the Flyrant with my Primus w/ Genestealers who Cult Ambushed into position. Magus casted Might from Beyond to make the Genestealers S5 w/ 90 attacks hitting on 2. Flyrant Died pretty easily but opponent spend 2 CPs to attack before going of the board and killed my Primus.
Turn 2, opponent surrounded the Genestealers, Russ and Magus with Trygon, 12 Devigaunts and 12 Gargoyles being backed up by Broodlord and Genestealers. He charged my Rockgrinder with the Broodlord and Genestealers and took it down to 5 wounds. I attacked back and got the Broodlord down to 1 wound. I then casted Might from Beyond again on my turn and killed all his gargoyles. Rockgrinder attacked the Broodlord and killed him. Genestealers then took care of the Rockgrinder and left my to place my Acolytes where the Rockgrinder was.
Turn 3, opponent charges my Genestealers with his own, rippers swarms and Devigaunts. Brought the unit down from 12 to 1. The good Leman Russ knocked 8 Devigaunts down and 1 Nid Warrior. Game finished at this point due to timing issues.
Overall it was a fun game and nothing is better then seeing a unit on Genestealers take down a Flyrant. Especially since it was GSC vs their own gods.
mugginns wrote:
Edit: I finished my thoughts on Troop choices and Dedicated Transports as well, here.
Very nice write ups! If I may make one slight nitpick with the second one, the Demolition Cache on the Goliaths does not require the unit embarked be equipped with Demolition Charges, it just needs a unit to be riding (like the Chimera's Lasgun Arrays). I am personally rather fond of 10-man Acolyte squads with 4 Demolition Charges riding in a Goliath. Bit pricy, but it delivers a nice alpha strike and the Acolytes can pile out to go pick on things in melee afterwards.
Wow, yeah, I must have read a weird comment on fb - the demo charge entry on the truck is oddly worded as well but now I see basically it only uses that weapon when someone is embarked.
I am making a new list that has either 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannons + 2 Heavy Bolters or 2 Tank Commanders w/ heavy Bolter, 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Basiliks w/ Master of Ordance for re-rolling 1s and HQ for Grand Strategist.
This issue I am having is that I never protect my bigger guy s properly and my opponents always find ways to get them into combat and prevent them from shooting. So, I am just wondering what's the cheapest/best screening unit we have from the Tyranids and Astra Militarum Codex's. I either thinking of using Conscripts or Termagaunts due to them both being able to go 20+ models, somewhat extra fire power and because it's only 80pts for 20 if either units.
What would you guys choose or have ye had luck using others units? Cheers everyone
Basic guard infantry or fleshborer termagants are the cheapest, both at 4ppm. Guard are probably better due to orders and longer range guns but gants have access to fearless for the cost of a neurothrope (70pts)
Conscripts are 4ppm and they have a 5+ though. You can also cast Auto Pass morale on a 4 with an Astropath (36pts) or Primaris Pysker (46pts but can cast 2 powers).
It really hard fitting Mawlocs, Basiliks and Russ into 1 list
You need more chaff to drop on the board as you can only have 50% in reserves. I think you want Primus + abberants ambushing, so just for that you need 2 board drops, I guess the grinder and maybe icon ward who is protected by character rule. You then either have to footslog 2 acolytes or hav stealers unprotected on board. I would try to get my hands on some neophytes if I where you!
Going to try my first game of GSC.
Thinking of making AM Neophyte and Leman russ stay in the back with Magus, Patriach so they can provide fire support and cast spells.
Acolyte hybrids will drive close with the Rockgrinder and Genestealers will ambush in with Primus.
Also Neophyte hybrids will drive close with the Chimera.
Something like that, i have no idea how to play them and basically this was the most generic plan i could think.
Basically load out is the same as i built or theres somethig i should definetly change?
Recently picked up a second hand baneblade for cheap, any suggestions on how to integrate it into a cult force? I currently got a fairly mechanised force with tauroxes, chimera and Goliath trucks
Araablane wrote: Looks really nice, where are the 2 melee weapons from?
Any tips and tricks you can give, any problems when converting?
Thanks!
Weapons heads are power hammers from MaxMini.eu and the shafts are part of the Goliath arms.
Shorten and thin down the acolyte/genestealer arms a bit at the shoulder. You don't have to glue them neatly or greenstuff, because the shoulder armour will cover the joint.
Try leaning the models forward when gluing them to the bases, that way they look more feral/hulking.
Use the nastiest and most monstrous heads from the acolyte box. Place them further forward and downward than the original heads would be.
It was a very simple conversion because the models actually look better if they turn out a bit out of proportions and ugly ;-)
Araablane wrote: Cool, thats great advice but one more question, did you convert 3 models because you did not need more or it was not possible from the box?
I only happened to convert three, it wasn't planned :-D
I think the biggest limitation is hammers. On each Goliath sprue there are two good looking obvious options, the over-the shoulder hammer and the two-handed weapon. But the rest can be converted quite easily. So with 1 box of Goliaths, 1 box of Acolytes and a bunch of hammers, you should easily be able to build 10 aberrants.
Sorry for the delay in replies, just got back from vacation.
Overdose wrote:Could I just grab some advice for this starter 1k point list?
Thank you!
Given the focus on Infantry, I'd probably drop the Rockgrinder for now to make room for some Neophyte squads to enable more ambushes and lend a bit better threat saturation. It also might be worthwhile experimenting with the Acolyte squads merged as one large unit to improve the utility of the expensive icon and keep the Saws protected.
Araablane wrote:Going to try my first game of GSC.
Thinking of making AM Neophyte and Leman russ stay in the back with Magus, Patriach so they can provide fire support and cast spells.
Acolyte hybrids will drive close with the Rockgrinder and Genestealers will ambush in with Primus.
Also Neophyte hybrids will drive close with the Chimera.
Something like that, i have no idea how to play them and basically this was the most generic plan i could think.
Basically load out is the same as i built or theres somethig i should definetly change?
Were you playing with Power or Points? In points I would probably leave the Cult Icons off the Neophyte squads as in most cases they will want to avoid melee (beyond tying up guns for a more dangerous unit to charge). While the Acolytes like the banner, I generally don't put one on an Acolyte unit until 10-15 models since it becomes much more cost efficient.
As for the rest of the list, I think the vehicle part is fairly well equipped, though I am a touch concerned about your infantry. The second Neophyte squad is a bit haphazard with its load-out and the weapon team squad would probably benefit from a second flamer (pretty much always double up if you can, it is one of the main advantages Neophytes have over guardsmen). For the second squad, I'd probably have the Shotguns "counts as" autoguns for the time being to keep range bands even. The Webber is sadly a fairly poor special weapon nowadays so you may be better served counting it as another Grenade Launcher or Flamer until the Codex is released.
I would also suggest keeping a CP around for the Patriarch to use Return to Shadows if needed. While he can lend moral immunity to your backfield, it does waste a bit of his impressive combat potential so having the ability to sling him up the board is quite useful.
C4790M wrote:Recently picked up a second hand baneblade for cheap, any suggestions on how to integrate it into a cult force? I currently got a fairly mechanised force with tauroxes, chimera and Goliath trucks
Sounds like it should integrate fairly well. It might be worthwhile to add some more Russes to the list for additional T8 saturation since the Banebade chassis will probably draw the bulk of anti-armor attention for a few turns.
Mellon wrote:I made a few Aberrants from Goliaths. It is indeed a pretty easy mod.
I also added some more armour to the original aberrants to make the unit fit together better.
So I'm working on fitting a baneblade into my GSC list, I was currently thinking of a guard supreme command like this:
HQ Company Commander w/ Grand Strategist and Kurov's Aquilla
Primaris Psyker w/ Nightshroud and Psychic Barrier
Tank Commander
Elite
Tech-Priest Engiseer
LoW Baneblade
Company commander lets me farm CP, psyker buffs the baneblade with +1 sv and -1 to be hit and the engiseer keeps it topped up. The tank commander adds to the target saturation and stops the psyker/engiseer becoming useless when the baneblade dies.
The rest of the list will be cult ambush melee with cheap neophytes as screens (can't take guardsmen due to 3 detachment limit and having to have at least 1 GSC det per IG det)
On a slightly related note, anyone got any cool tech-priest conversions using grafted tyranid/GSC limbs instead of mechanical arms? Looking for inspiration
I know this a big and really not that fun of a question but im going to ask it anyway.
How would you make a semi- competitive 1800 pts GCS list?
Im asking because my local players will have a bigger than a normal tourmament but one of the rules that it must be fully painted so basically i have to have some idea what to buy and paint before that, so i can practise before giving my opponent free wins, because i didnt know what to bring.
I doubt that GSC will have a codex before that time.
Araablane wrote: I know this a big and really not that fun of a question but im going to ask it anyway.
How would you make a semi- competitive 1800 pts GCS list?
Im asking because my local players will have a bigger than a normal tourmament but one of the rules that it must be fully painted so basically i have to have some idea what to buy and paint before that, so i can practise before giving my opponent free wins, because i didnt know what to bring.
I doubt that GSC will have a codex before that time.
I have no idea. Having 2 primuses for delivery with the stratagem is probably a good place to start. Use them to deliver a unit with 6 or 8 saws, and the other one has genestealers. 15 or 20.
Problem is none of them can remove chaff like tyranids can.
Most lists should probably include IG if you wanne winn. Either take no vehicles to screw over lascannons, or armour up. If you take none IG heavy weapon teams is a must. If you mix look towards tank commanders and leman russes. 3 tank commanders as a supre colmander scuad sounds great. 1 plasma,1 with gateling and 1 regular one. Perhaps some gsc regular russes as back up. That is a lot of T8.
Ps: do sentinels prevent khorn berderkers and other deployment shenanigans?
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C4790M wrote: So I'm working on fitting a baneblade into my GSC list, I was currently thinking of a guard supreme command like this:
HQ Company Commander w/ Grand Strategist and Kurov's Aquilla
Primaris Psyker w/ Nightshroud and Psychic Barrier
Tank Commander
Elite
Tech-Priest Engiseer
LoW Baneblade
Company commander lets me farm CP, psyker buffs the baneblade with +1 sv and -1 to be hit and the engiseer keeps it topped up. The tank commander adds to the target saturation and stops the psyker/engiseer becoming useless when the baneblade dies.
The rest of the list will be cult ambush melee with cheap neophytes as screens (can't take guardsmen due to 3 detachment limit and having to have at least 1 GSC det per IG det)
On a slightly related note, anyone got any cool tech-priest conversions using grafted tyranid/GSC limbs instead of mechanical arms? Looking for inspiration
does not most lists stop at 3 deteachments? You can only have 1 detachment of IG per gsc detachment? Newer mind. Saw it now.
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Araablane wrote: I know this a big and really not that fun of a question but im going to ask it anyway.
How would you make a semi- competitive 1800 pts GCS list?
Im asking because my local players will have a bigger than a normal tourmament but one of the rules that it must be fully painted so basically i have to have some idea what to buy and paint before that, so i can practise before giving my opponent free wins, because i didnt know what to bring.
I doubt that GSC will have a codex before that time.
How about sometting like this? The list probably needs more screening units.
Wow, thx Niiai, thankie you for your input, i truly like your list but one thing i realised, i wont be able to paint your list in to the quality i like before the tournament. So, im going to ask differently, how to expand on these models to make something reliable? Im thinking of making a abberants from the Necromunda box.
Weapons dont matter, i can say whats needed, they just want painted models.
Araablane wrote: Wow, thx Niiai, thankie you for your input, i truly like your list but one thing i realised, i wont be able to paint your list in to the quality i like before the tournament.
So, im going to ask differently, how to expand on these models to make something reliable?
Im thinking of making a abberants from the Necromunda box.
Weapons dont matter, i can say whats needed, they just want painted models.
Mmmmm.... I do not know the transports well enough to se how this list plays out.
What are you planing on putting where?`(Or is these one of the lists that is rather flexible upon deployment?) Also, your weapons are a bit all over the place.
Oh, my bad, this is just a list of things that i have. Easy to make a list of things in Battlescribe.
Basically i want to build a playable force using most models that i have and buying needed things so i can get things painted.
Just my 2 cents but I'd take missile launchers over las cannons for weapon teams. Same price, almost as good vs armor, and retaining anti hoard attack gives more flexibility. Especially if your bringing a lot of leman russ' or ig artillery
Araablane wrote: So, im going to ask differently, how to expand on these models to make something reliable?
I'd probably focus on getting your Acolyte and Genestealer numbers up so you can run multiple squads and have more heavy weapon options for the former. After that, the main consideration is whether you want an ambush-heavy gunline army or an aggressive mechanized infantry oriented one. For the former you will need more Russes to provide fire support and another Primus for reliable threat delivery while in the latter you'll want more Goliaths and Chimera for threat saturation and troop transportation.
So I need a solid opinion on baneblade chassis. I have the money set aside but I don't have any experience with them. Which is the best for the points and effectiveness for the army.
Picked up the Overkill box set the other day and want to dabble in GSC. Had some questions.
1) How many genestealers should I buy if I plan on playing at 2k?
2) If I take a GSC can I then take a IG battalion with mass scion drop spam and have them benefit from all rules in the AM codex? If so can I also just take a Catachan TC and tanks because they seem better than the Battle Tank in the GSC index. Unless Im missing something.
3) Reading through the Index I can't see a way around the 50% must be deployed. I can't cult ambush my entire army correct?
4) Kind of confusing on this box set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen acolytes. Are they all just acolyte hybrids in the index? Got the box from a Deathwatch player so has no rules. Also why two different kits for Neophyte Hybrids? The Cadian one and a more GSC looking one?
5) How should I build the army up from here? Is battleforce insurrection best or neophytes?
Any general tips for the GSC? Not looking to be super competitive.
Incognito15 wrote: Picked up the Overkill box set the other day and want to dabble in GSC. Had some questions.
1) How many genestealers should I buy if I plan on playing at 2k?
2) If I take a GSC can I then take a IG battalion with mass scion drop spam and have them benefit from all rules in the AM codex? If so can I also just take a Catachan TC and tanks because they seem better than the Battle Tank in the GSC index. Unless Im missing something.
3) Reading through the Index I can't see a way around the 50% must be deployed. I can't cult ambush my entire army correct?
4) Kind of confusing on this box set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen acolytes. Are they all just acolyte hybrids in the index? Got the box from a Deathwatch player so has no rules. Also why two different kits for Neophyte Hybrids? The Cadian one and a more GSC looking one?
5) How should I build the army up from here? Is battleforce insurrection best or neophytes?
Any general tips for the GSC? Not looking to be super competitive.
Thanks!
1. Think the general consensus os 0-3 Units of 12-20. I personakt like 2 Units of 16 in a spam Heavy meta.
2. If tanks are flat out better (-10 points, can take orders) as the gsc buffs except maybe magus don’t help em. You are however prevented from taking regimental doctrines as your regiment must be “brood brothers” who don’t benefit (check if FAQs)
3. Correct. But try deploying Ig mainly
4. 1 and 2 gems are acolytes, 3 and 4 is neophytes. The two different kits are just different models with different model option, but rule wise identical.
5. Skip the battle force, to many duplicates. I’d like 2-3 big ambushing units to go with a character and stratagem, and 1-2 units of neophytes to ambush onto objectives and meat shield for the magus. Buy 2 boxes of stealers, one Goliath gang that you convert to a total of 6 abberants, convert in some rock saw acolytes.
For the rest of the points, go for either a guard or a mid detachment imo
Basic plan was deploy all tyranids except the rippers and the magus. Depending on match ups I sometimes deployed the neophytes too.
Then it was pretty simple. control the objectives and board using the screens, biovores make spores/do mortal wounds for fun and games.
The genestealers ambush in (using meticulous uprising) to pin my opponent back and assist me in dominating the board.
Rippers and neophytes drop in to take recon/behind enemy lines/objectives/generally be a nuisance.
My acolyte unit was included because I didnt get my GW order so didnt have enough neophytes. They died horribly in 2 games. hid behind a wall in game 3 and in game 4 I completely forgot them and they died in the sewers of reserves.
Notable moments included:
A magus surviving celestines charge and then smiting her last wound off her.
My Neophytes beating a different celestine to death with their lasgun butts.
My genestealers in game 2 both got 6's on ambush and charging an entire sisters of battle army was particularly impressive.
Timeshadow wrote:So I need a solid opinion on baneblade chassis. I have the money set aside but I don't have any experience with them. Which is the best for the points and effectiveness for the army.
I haven't had a chance to play with a Baneblade (or variant thereof) but from what I understand the Shadowsword (the one with the Volcano Cannon) is one of the more popular variants due to their ability to wreck most multi-wound targets in a single volley from range. The Stormlord is also fairly popular due to its transport capacity and hoard control capabilities, which might be useful for GSC. Not sure on the other variants as I haven't seen much discussion regarding them.
Might be worth hopping over to the Astra Miltarum thread to see if they have any advice and report back here.
Sneggy wrote:Won a little RTT this weekend with my Genestealer Cult. We were playing on short chess clocks for speed 40k. Using ITC missions.
I went 42-13 vs sisters of battle 42-1 vs sisters of battle and blood angels 35-13 vs Ultramarines 35-13 vs Deathwatch
Power armour everywhere, good job my genestealers sharpened their claws
Congratulations on your victory! Seeing your list further down, what Hive Fleet did you use to compliment your hybrids?
Incognito15 wrote:Picked up the Overkill box set the other day and want to dabble in GSC. Had some questions.
1) How many genestealers should I buy if I plan on playing at 2k?
2) If I take a GSC can I then take a IG battalion with mass scion drop spam and have them benefit from all rules in the AM codex? If so can I also just take a Catachan TC and tanks because they seem better than the Battle Tank in the GSC index. Unless Im missing something.
3) Reading through the Index I can't see a way around the 50% must be deployed. I can't cult ambush my entire army correct?
4) Kind of confusing on this box set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen acolytes. Are they all just acolyte hybrids in the index? Got the box from a Deathwatch player so has no rules. Also why two different kits for Neophyte Hybrids? The Cadian one and a more GSC looking one?
5) How should I build the army up from here? Is battleforce insurrection best or neophytes?
Any general tips for the GSC? Not looking to be super competitive.
Thanks!
1.) You'll probably want between 30 and 40 'stealers give or take. Redundancy is your friend with GSC and Purestrains want to be in larger units for their Flurry of Claws bonus and to make better use of a Primus' ambush modifications.
2.) I don't think it is currently possible to bring pure Scions in the allied detachment since per the FAQ models within said detachment must replace their <Regiment> keyword with Brood Brothers and Scions have a fixed "Miltarium Tempestus" regiment keyword. The Astra Miltarum Codex itself allows them to be included with a <regiment> at the cost of not using their own keyword's benefits, but I'm not sure if that would allow them to fit into a Brood Brothers detachment or not. As far as Russes go they are fine taken in-faction until you get to ~3 vehicles, at which point a Spearhead or High Command open up and they can be moved to a Brood Brothers detachment and gain the benefits of tank orders and AM stratagems.
3.) Currently no workaround other than to construct your list with an "anvil" that remains on the table (usually handled by allies or mechanized elements) with the ambushing portions acting as a "hammer". Chapter Approved brought back Return to Shadows as a stratagem but it only works on 1 unit a turn in matched play due to the restrictions on stratagems. That said, you could use it to add another ambusher if you run out of ambush slots, but they won't be able to arrive until turn 2 at the earliest.
4.) The 1st and 2nd generation hybrids are the Acolytes (the ones that look like 3-armed Genestealers in mining suits) while the 3rd and 4th generation hybrids are Neophytes. The Militant (Cadian) Neophyte kit exists to provide a bundle for the GSC upgrade sprue for converting Astra Militarum units to GSC units and provides the parts to build Neophyte heavy weapon teams while the Industrial Neophyte kit provides Shotguns and the heavy mining weapons. Both are the same unit within the army, just different equipment options and aesthetics.
5.) The Cult Insurrection box isn't a bad place to start as almost everything within it will be useful for you. The main issue with the box is that it doesn't have any duplicate sprues so it is a bit short on special weapons compared to buying duplicate individual boxes, though in exchange it does offer a $75 discount on its components. Going from Overkill I'd probably look towards adding some vehicles, as they provide a bit of deployment flexibility and an "anvil" for the ambushers as previously stated.
As a general piece of advice, the biggest difficulty with GSC is learning when to ambush and when to hold back. It isn't something that can really be learned in one or two games but rather requires a bit of trial and error to figure out when to strike and when to sulk in the shadows.
Wanted to be sure before iassembling my models, this is legal, right?
For 15 models i have Leader, 9 random guys and 5 heavy weapons guys.
Is the cult icon model a separate model or does the leader carry it in games?
Its just for building, i can always say what model represents what but easier when Heavy weapon guys are what they are supposed to be.
Acolyte Hybrids
Selections: Cult Icon
9x Acolyte Hybrid
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Demolition Charges
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Drill
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Leader
Selections: Autopistol, Cultist Knife
Araablane wrote: Wanted to be sure before iassembling my models, this is legal, right?
For 15 models i have Leader, 9 random guys and 5 heavy weapons guys.
Is the cult icon model a separate model or does the leader carry it in games?
Its just for building, i can always say what model represents what but easier when Heavy weapon guys are what they are supposed to be.
Acolyte Hybrids
Selections: Cult Icon
9x Acolyte Hybrid
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Demolition Charges
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Drill
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Leader
Selections: Autopistol, Cultist Knife
Yepp, that looks absolutely legal. Two heavy weapons per 5 acolytes in the unit. So 15 models in total means you can even have 6 heavy weapons.
"One Acolyte Hybrid may carry a cult icon." So not the leader, but any one of the others in the group may carry it.
Building your army will be a lot easier if you get the Index instead of relying on BattleScribe ;-)
I'm stepping back into 40k after a layoff and wanted to try and rebuild my old GSC army. I've got my Sisters on the go at the moment, but I fancy trying out a CC faction as well - I played both Daemons and GSC in 7th, and of the two I enjoyed GSC a lot more (mostly because RttS/ Ambush shenanigans were awesome).
With that in mind I have a few questions for the more experienced GSC players:
- How much different is the army nowadays? In 7th I played a Decurion full of MSU Hybrids for max Ambush rolls - the army relied on Psychic Summons, Decurion bonuses and RttS to function, and in all honesty it was a little OP against certain lists, but it made for a hellishly fast playstyle with all kinds of tactical flexibility. Is it still like that, or has the Strat-ification of RttS made the army more Ork-like (i.e. mongle forward and charge, then do it again)?
- I want to play Tyranids. I like monsters, and I want to have monsters in my army, but last Edition having Nids as Allies was kinda inefficient - 500pts for 2 Flyrants meant losing 30-50 Hybrids, and that just wasn't happening. Also the Shadow messed with Summons and that sucked. Are Nid allies more viable now?
- What precisely is the deal with Astroglide Guard allies? Are they worth taking? Can you bring them alongside Nids for a Nid soup army?
- How much different is the army nowadays? In 7th I played a Decurion full of MSU Hybrids for max Ambush rolls - the army relied on Psychic Summons, Decurion bonuses and RttS to function, and in all honesty it was a little OP against certain lists, but it made for a hellishly fast playstyle with all kinds of tactical flexibility. Is it still like that, or has the Strat-ification of RttS made the army more Ork-like (i.e. mongle forward and charge, then do it again)?
I think the traditional image of the Dark Eldar is probably a closer approximation than Orks. Units are fairly fragile but they hit fairly hard and can get up the board very quickly between ambushers and mechanized troops.
The main difference from 7th with the index version of the army currently is that the ambushers will generally want to be in larger units rather than the MSU swarm of old. The main culprit is the matched play rules which require at least half of the units in the army start the game on the table so swarms of small units require a greater investment in non-ambushing models than a handful of larger units. The new ambush modification abilities granted to the Primus also incentivize taking larger units to maximize the amount of force concentration he can deliver at a time and certain unit rules reward larger units as well (Cult Icons now allow rerolls of 1s to hit and get more cost efficient with larger units, Purestrains gain an additional attack when in units 10 or more). Vehicles also play a much greater role than they did in 7th, as they offer relatively durable units to hold down the board and enable ambushes with. Plus, vehicles can now charge and fight like infantry or monsters so they are good for soaking overwatch on behalf of fragile assault troops.
- I want to play Tyranids. I like monsters, and I want to have monsters in my army, but last Edition having Nids as Allies was kinda inefficient - 500pts for 2 Flyrants meant losing 30-50 Hybrids, and that just wasn't happening. Also the Shadow messed with Summons and that sucked. Are Nid allies more viable now?
They are viable allies, though it has generally been more popular to use GSC to support Tyranids rather than the other way around. The main issue for GSC with Tyranid allies is that a lot of Tyranid units like to deploy from reserve as well, so they tend to cut into ambush slots unless running an attrition oriented list (swarms, monster mash). That said, Tyranids are one of the most flexible armies in the game as far as list archetypes go. They provide a very wide toolbox to draw from if you find a particular gap that you need covered.
Shadow in the Warp was changed to only impact enemy psykers and only non-Tyranid ones at that, so GSC isn't affected by it. Granted, the Daemonology discipline as a whole is gone now (summoning currently exists as a special rule on Chaos characters) so that perhaps isn't as impactful as it used to be.
- What precisely is the deal with Astroglide Guard allies? Are they worth taking?
Astra Militarum are currently one of the strongest armies in the game (albeit mostly as allies rather than a stand-alone) which makes having access to them a huge benefit. As far as whether they are worthwhile or not, they pair fairly well with GSC both from a saturation perspective (most units have comparable stats) as well as providing a solid gunline to enable ambushing. GSC in turn provides mobility and melee capabilities that traditional AM lacks. Also the AM have command point recovery tools in the form of a generic warlord trait and relic, both of which are helpful for enabling the two GSC stratagems (though this comes at the cost of the GSC relic banner from Chapter Approved since GSC does not yet have the stratagem that enables extra relics.)
Strat_N8 - I think I was talking to you in the other thread too. Thanks for the replies, brah.
Strat_N8 wrote: Vehicles also play a much greater role than they did in 7th, as they offer relatively durable units to hold down the board and enable ambushes with. Plus, vehicles can now charge and fight like infantry or monsters so they are good for soaking overwatch on behalf of fragile assault troops.
This last part I like. IIRC I often lost more dude to Overwatch than I did in CC, so the fact I can send in a Goliath to eat bolters is fantastic. In all honesty the fact vehicles are useful now is a good thing - the GSC vehicle models are awesome and I always wanted to field them, but they just sucked so hard in 7th it was never worth it. Also I have an excuse to convert up a Cult Limousine, which is nice.
Still not sure I like the new tactical iteration of RttS though. Getting up the board quickly is great, but one of the army's biggest strengths in 7th was the fact they could get back down the board quickly too. I guess it was a little cheesy being able to teleport around willy nilly, but it's still a little disheartening that one of the army's big strengths has been nerfed so hard. I really need to put a list together and maybe get a tester game in before I start whining about it though.
Tyranids are one of the most flexible armies in the game as far as list archetypes go. They provide a very wide toolbox to draw from if you find a particular gap that you need covered.
I played a game against Nids the other day and have since bought the Codex - I can see what you mean, both about the toolbox and the potential for arriving from reserves. IIRC the most common combination in 7th was to have tough Nid units to camp on the table and eat shots while your Ambushers came and went. Is that still the best way to do Nid allies? Or do the improvements in GSC vehicles make stuff like Mawlocs and Mucolids more viable?
The Summoning thing - I meant Psychic Summons, the Broodmind version. Dropping a full blob of Neophytes with Seismic Cannons and Webbers on people every Psychic Phase was awesome, and I think added to the army's board presence and resilience (at least it did until people realised the Neophytes sucked and stopped shooting at them), and being able to throw a full unit of buff Whip-Morphs at a First Curse was handy too. It was also stupidly OP and I'm fine with it being removed, in all honesty.
The AM ally dynamic doesn't seem to have changed much from 7th, so if I can get my head around the new GSC playstyle I might give that a go too. The ComPoint recovery tools seem worth a look, if nothing else. Is losing the GSC relic a big deal?
godardc wrote: How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?
I'm afraid so. Gamewise we are pretty much waiting on the codex to (hopefully) be competitive again. Until then GSC can be somewhat useful as allies for armies that are mainly AM and/or Tyranids.
godardc wrote: How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?
I'm afraid so. Gamewise we are pretty much waiting on the codex to (hopefully) be competitive again. Until then GSC can be somewhat useful as allies for armies that are mainly AM and/or Tyranids.
I'm sorry to say though that I don't see the point of taking GSC allies for my Nids. I just don't see what they can do any better than what Nids already have. The models are beautiful, but that's really all they have doing for them for Nids. I can't speak for how much GSC might help as allies for AM, as I don't play them, but AM is already so strong I don't see the point there either - again, except for models.
godardc wrote: How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?
I'm afraid so. Gamewise we are pretty much waiting on the codex to (hopefully) be competitive again. Until then GSC can be somewhat useful as allies for armies that are mainly AM and/or Tyranids.
I'm sorry to say though that I don't see the point of taking GSC allies for my Nids. I just don't see what they can do any better than what Nids already have. The models are beautiful, but that's really all they have doing for them for Nids. I can't speak for how much GSC might help as allies for AM, as I don't play them, but AM is already so strong I don't see the point there either - again, except for models.
Agree wholly but there are 2 niche options GSC can bring that can be effective: Magus and Ambush
GSC currently have very good spells. Their mind control spell activates on a 6 and can target any unit as opposed to only characters. Might from beyond can make a GSC purstrain or acolyte blob downright terrifying and, potentially most significantly, mass hypnosis with -1 to hit, no overwatch, and always strike last on a castign value of 7 or 8.
The main advantage for ambush is twofold. First it means you don't need to spend 160-200 points on a trygon or tyrannocyte nor cp for stratagems. Attach a 76 point primus who is respectable in combat himself and a very good force multiplyer with +1 to hit and you get better ambush rolls. The second is the rolls themselves. on a 5+ (4+ with primus) you can either immediately move d6 and still charge or have a full movement phase for the ambushing unit. This gives a 1/2 chance of being closer then 9 inches during the charge phase and with a 1cp strategem in chapter approved it becomes almost guarenteed by rolling 3 ambush dice.
That beign said they are best used competitvely as a small auxiliary to either AM or nids if at all.
I played a game against Nids the other day and have since bought the Codex - I can see what you mean, both about the toolbox and the potential for arriving from reserves. IIRC the most common combination in 7th was to have tough Nid units to camp on the table and eat shots while your Ambushers came and went. Is that still the best way to do Nid allies? Or do the improvements in GSC vehicles make stuff like Mawlocs and Mucolids more viable?
In general the main thing GSC looks for from their allies is something to hold down the table to enable ambushers and be your anvil. Mawlocs are actually fairly good for this since they can start on the table to enable an ambush slot and use their Burrow ability to leave the table themselves.
Mucolids were moved to Fast Attack so they don't fill minimum requirements anymore, but they can be created by Sporocysts every turn now rather than once per game and don't cost reinforcement points to spawn. Both they and Spore Mines are good for mortal wounds and board control, but are best gotten for free since they are fairly expensive in points.
The Summoning thing - I meant Psychic Summons, the Broodmind version. Dropping a full blob of Neophytes with Seismic Cannons and Webbers on people every Psychic Phase was awesome, and I think added to the army's board presence and resilience (at least it did until people realized the Neophytes sucked and stopped shooting at them), and being able to throw a full unit of buff Whip-Morphs at a First Curse was handy too. It was also stupidly OP and I'm fine with it being removed, in all honesty.
Ah, my mistake. Most summoning abilities were nerfed in matched play as they require setting aside points for the resulting units now rather than creating the unit for free. There is still an element of utility from such abilities in that they allow the army to be customized on a per-battle basis, but it does have the drawback of points off the table makes one more vulnerable to alpha strikes.
I think the Psychic Summons will probably come back as a stratagem with a new power replacing it on the Broodmind discipline. Tyranids have a couple stratagems that create new units in a similar fashion but need reinforcement points to function.
It depends on your list more than anything. The relic grants a +1 strength bubble to an Iconward which is mainly a boon for the Rending Claw equipped models (especially Purestrains) as it lowers the threshold needed to score non-rend wounds. Also it can be combined with Might From Beyond to allow a unit to hit S6 base, at which point they can reliably threaten lighter vehicles before taking any special weapons into account.
godardc wrote:How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?
They are somewhat weak for tournament play but are able to give most armies a good fight in pick-up games (especially given that they are an index army).
The Christmas battleforce box helped a bit in regards to the expense to collect the army, but the army still lacks a proper start collecting box and getting special weapons for units requires multiple infantry boxes which adds up quickly. Still, with the current rate of releases I expect to see the Codex in June at the latest and there will probably be a Start Collecting box released alongside it.
TonyH122 wrote: I'm sorry to say though that I don't see the point of taking GSC allies for my Nids. I just don't see what they can do any better than what Nids already have.
As someone who plays both, GSC melee is actually quite a bit better than Tyranid melee. Most Tyranid assault units (bar Tyrants, Warriors, and Genestealers) are stuck with WS: 4+ while most GSC assault units have WS: 3+ that can be boosted to a 2+ fairly trivially. The second factor is that GSC has ready access to Sx2 weaponry on infantry chassis along with in-faction strength buffs for dealing with high toughness models, wereas almost all Tyranid melee infantry are capped at S4. Monstrous creatures can provide similar armor cracking capabilities, but for the most part they don't have the accuracy that GSC models have and suffer from low speed or high cost to deliver them safely.
CommissarCuddles wrote:Hi Guys
I've foolishly signed up for a 500 pt Icebreaker tournament this Sunday with my GSC (which I've been collecting since Xmas but have yet to play).
What's a good list for GSC at this level?
I have everything from DW:Overkill plus;
~20 purestrains 8 more aberrants (goliath kitbashes)
+chimeras & a Leman Russ from AM.
Currently looking at;
Magus Primus
2 x Neophyte squads with grenade launcher and Mortar team
4 x aberrants 8 x Purestrains
for 499 points.
Viable? expectation is to build a firebase with the magus and 2 x neophytes and then cult ambush the primus, purestrains and aberrants.
Thanks
For 500 points you might be better served with a unit or two of Acolytes with weapons instead of the Aberrants and Purestrain mix. While both specialists are good at what they do, at 500 points it is very easy to build skew lists that are designed to overload an opponent's ability to deal with a given target type. While Acolytes aren't quite as good at armor cracking or horde removal as the more specialized elites, they can do both roles which will get you a bit more flexibility and insurance against overload lists. Plus, they are troops so you could upgrade to a battalion for more command points.
Now that the FAQ is available, what will change for us?
And with the Beta rules, we now have a very interesting niche as GSC is now the only army that can deploy deepstrikers all over the table in turn 1. I'm really curious to see what that changes.
Yeah! We got our niche as the ambush army back! That should give us a really strong advantage as most armies might cut back on screening bubbles now they don’t have to worry about the T1 charge as much
1. The restriction on turn 1 deepstrikes and exception for Cult Ambush is fairly nice as far as allowing us to do something no one else really can. The one part I am unsure about though is the additional requirement that half your army's power level start on the table in addition to half its units. Most of the ambushing melee units are fairly expensive in power while the standard on-table units (vehicles, Neophytes) are comparatively cheaper. To ambush with a 10-man Acolyte squad for instance requires either 20 Neophytes (1 squad of 20 or 2 squads of 10), 5 Scout Sentinels, 2 transport vehicles, or a Leman Russ tank to enable. Genestealers and Neophytes are the cheapest infantry in power level, so they might end up being the main Ambusher units while Acolytes and Aberrants settle for riding to war.
2. The Index: Xenos 2 FAQ added another line to Cult Ambush that allows units unable to be deployed to go back into ambush to be rolled again next turn. Nice little buff in the event of a 1 or 2 roll against someone hugging their table edge.
3. The Tyranid FAQ clarified that Paroxysm shuts down the Counter Attack stratagem. Paroxysm's "must fight after all eligible units have done so" is shared with Mass Hypnosis, so presumably the FAQ applies there as well. Nice little bit of insurance against opponents with mass attacks that you can't afford to have interrupt.
4. Some of the clarification's charging into ruins might hurt us a bit. Now if there is no space to place at least one model in base to base (no more "wobbly model") the charge fails. Conversely, ambushing Neophytes love this change since it is fairly easy for them to crowd out a level and then be immune to assaults for the rest of the game.
1. The restriction on turn 1 deepstrikes and exception for Cult Ambush is fairly nice as far as allowing us to do something no one else really can. The one part I am unsure about though is the additional requirement that half your army's power level start on the table in addition to half its units. Most of the ambushing melee units are fairly expensive in power while the standard on-table units (vehicles, Neophytes) are comparatively cheaper. To ambush with a 10-man Acolyte squad for instance requires either 20 Neophytes (1 squad of 20 or 2 squads of 10), 5 Scout Sentinels, 2 transport vehicles, or a Leman Russ tank to enable. Genestealers and Neophytes are the cheapest infantry in power level, so they might end up being the main Ambusher units while Acolytes and Aberrants settle for riding to war.
Can we simply run 11 man Neophyte squads to bump the Power Level of that unit to 10 rather than 5? If so then 11 man units mounted in a Chimera are 15 PL which is one shy of the 16PL to match a maxed out ambushing Genestealer Squad. The 11 man Neophyte squad plus Chimera perfectly matches a 15 man Acolyte Squad in ambush. It lessens the utility of a Goliath Truck since it can only take up to 10 infantry sadly. Similarily, if this is true then a 6 man Acolyte squad mounted in a Rockgrinder (total 16 PL) may be another great 'anchor' unit to start on the table to enable other ambushing units.
Can we simply run 11 man Neophyte squads to bump the Power Level of that unit to 10 rather than 5? If so then 11 man units mounted in a Chimera are 15 PL which is one shy of the 16PL to match a maxed out ambushing Genestealer Squad. The 11 man Neophyte squad plus Chimera perfectly matches a 15 man Acolyte Squad in ambush. It lessens the utility of a Goliath Truck since it can only take up to 10 infantry sadly. Similarily, if this is true then a 6 man Acolyte squad mounted in a Rockgrinder (total 16 PL) may be another great 'anchor' unit to start on the table to enable other ambushing units.
I hadn't thought of that. That should work nicely actually. Goliath Trucks could still do the PL shenanigans with weapon team Neophytes (combined team counts as 1 model, so 9 Neophytes + weapon team + Goliath = 15 PL) and Demolition Charge Acolytes (10 Acolytes + Goliath = 15 PL). Rockgrinders with 6 Aberrants might be another option, as that is 20 PL for little over 250 points (assuming Hammers of course).
Goliath Trucks could still do the PL shenanigans with weapon team Neophytes (combined team counts as 1 model, so 9 Neophytes + weapon team + Goliath = 15 PL) and Demolition Charge Acolytes (10 Acolytes + Goliath = 15 PL). Rockgrinders with 6 Aberrants might be another option, as that is 20 PL for little over 250 points (assuming Hammers of course).
The Goliath/Neophyte trick will work for now because the wording on the Goliath Transport rule is different from the normal ones I see in the Astra Militarum codex. There it always states that Heavy Weapons teams count as two models for filling out transport capacity. I suspect this is an oversight that will be changed in our Codex. For now we could play with the rule as written but I don't think it is as intended.
I'll play the rule as I believe it is intended. Can anyone think of a good reason to the contrary? Best reason I can manage is the introduction of Power Level as a way to decide reserves is a beta rule that seems a little half-baked and therefore using a half-baked Index rule is fair game.
Hey awesome people of the filthy xenos cults, my friend is thinking of getting into your horrific, back stabbing shenanigans and I want to give him a fun, 1000pt game to introduce him into this heretical, scum filled coven.
You all know how this admittedly awesome army works, so I was wandering if you guys could take a look a the list we came up with and what I'll be facing him with and let me know how to make it fairer for a good experience.
I'll be playing Blood Angels allied to Death Korps (for our sweet fluff we loosely came up with) but won't be using Stratagems so he doesn't feel the pain of being an Index as much.
—MY ARMY—
Spoiler:
[Battalion]
HQ - Marshal officer
- Tank Commander in an exterminator w/ hull las cannon
TROOP
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
[Vanguard]
HQ - Captain w/ duel lightning claws and jump pack
ELITE
- Sanguinary Ancient w/ sword and Angelis boltgun
- 4x Sanguinary Guard w/ 4x swords and boltguns
- 10x Vanguard w/ 4x shields, 5x power swords, all w/ chainswords, serg w/ duel inferno pistols, jump packs
—HIS LIST—
Spoiler:
[Battalion]
HQ - Patriarch
- Magus
TROOP
- 5x acolytes w/ 2x rock saws, leader w/ bonesword and whip
- 10x neophytes w/ 1x grenade launcher, 1x seismic cannon
- 10x neophytes w/ 1x grenade launcher, 1x seismic cannon
ELITES
- 18x Genestealers
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Leman Russ battle tank w/ sponson and hull mounted heavy bolters
TRANSPORT
- Goliath Truck
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey awesome people of the filthy xenos cults, my friend is thinking of getting into your horrific, back stabbing shenanigans and I want to give him a fun, 1000pt game to introduce him into this heretical, scum filled coven.
You all know how this admittedly awesome army works, so I was wandering if you guys could take a look a the list we came up with and what I'll be facing him with and let me know how to make it fairer for a good experience.
I'll be playing Blood Angels allied to Death Korps (for our sweet fluff we loosely came up with) but won't be using Stratagems so he doesn't feel the pain of being an Index as much.
—MY ARMY—
Spoiler:
[Battalion]
HQ - Marshal officer
- Tank Commander in an exterminator w/ hull las cannon
TROOP
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
[Vanguard]
HQ - Captain w/ duel lightning claws and jump pack
ELITE
- Sanguinary Ancient w/ sword and Angelis boltgun
- 4x Sanguinary Guard w/ 4x swords and boltguns
- 10x Vanguard w/ 4x shields, 5x power swords, all w/ chainswords, serg w/ duel inferno pistols, jump packs
—HIS LIST—
Spoiler:
[Battalion]
HQ - Patriarch
- Magus
TROOP
- 5x acolytes w/ 2x rock saws, leader w/ bonesword and whip
- 10x neophytes w/ 1x grenade launcher, 1x seismic cannon
- 10x neophytes w/ 1x grenade launcher, 1x seismic cannon
ELITES
- 18x Genestealers
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Leman Russ battle tank w/ sponson and hull mounted heavy bolters
TRANSPORT
- Goliath Truck
Thanks guys
Unless he's planning to ambush those neophytes, and based on his list I highly doubt that he is, he should probably swap out the seismic cannons for a weapons team. aside from heavy stubbers the single man heavy weapons have short range and all of them have piss poor accuracy when footslogging. they work best when a big blob ambushes well within range and hammers geq with the alpha strike.
As for strategems, do you have chapter approved? While GSC do have few strategems they got a very good one in chapter approved for modifying ambush rolls that almost guarentee a favourable roll if the unit has a primus attached and makes the army much more fun to play. Personally i'd replace the patriarch with a primus, maybe take a couple genestealers out of the blob (15-16) and make the acolyte squad a bit stronger with the extra points but that is just me. The GS death star just feels too risky in low point games as a bad ambush roll means lots of dead genestealers before they get to charge, which the primus and the strategem helps mitigate significantly. The army hits like a truck but if they do not cripple whatever they attacked before retaliation the casualties will be high.
The Acolyte squads and Abberants mount up in Rockgrinders and rush where needed. The one Neophyte Squad with Heavy Bolter and the Sentinels sit back and camp on objectives. The other three can pop up anywhere on the board to grab objectives. Or they can come in with the Primus and hopefully for a 5 and get the double shot off at an appropriate target. 2 Primus come in with the Stealer squads. The Iconward goes where needed.
I can reduce a bunch of upgrades, drop the Iconward and add two more Lascannon Sentinels for saturation.
Caspian89 wrote: The Acolyte squads and Abberants mount up in Rockgrinders and rush where needed.
This is what I was thinking too, given the discussion in the thread post-FAQ - 5 Aberrants in a Rockgrinder (Incinerator) with an Iconward seems like a nasty little blunt instrument to hit people with while the Ambush scalpel gets to work. Two of those blobs would run you 608pts and put 6 units on the table with 46PL between them (assuming I've done all my calcs properly). I was thinking about adding a Cache to the Grinder initially, but it seems like a waste - once the Aberrants are out I doubt anything will be getting back in, unless the Iconward needs to run away or something.
I like the look of it, and really want to use GSC vehicles, but I'm a little worried about flexibility and utility - these blobs only do one thing, mongle forward and charge, and while (on paper) it seems like they'd do these things well they're still one dimensional and unsubtle.
Alternatively, I was thinking of going wide rather than tall with my PL shenanigans. Maybe building a semi-mobile firebase out of AM or Neophyte squads, stuffing the PL somehow, and running a few big Acolyte squads as my Ambush contingent.
I’m toying with the idea of using a guard leman russ spearhead (3 barebones russes and a company commander) for my anchor.
The tanks provide staying power and high levels of threat and have obsec because they’re in a spearhead.
My plan is to use them more aggressively than usual, pushing objectives. If they get charged I ambush in purestrains, acolytes or aberrants to get an overwatch-free charge and counter attack.
Tiberius501 wrote: You all know how this admittedly awesome army works, so I was wandering if you guys could take a look a the list we came up with and what I'll be facing him with and let me know how to make it fairer for a good experience.
It is very kind of you to go to the trouble of making an even match for your friend. Based on his list I assume he started his army with the battleforce box?
Depending on how many models he has available, it might be wise to replace the tank commander with something a tad softer. From what I can see he doesn't have much for dedicated T8 tank hunting beyond his Russ (can be tied up fairly easily by your melee assets) and the Acolyte squad (very fragile).
Caspian89 wrote: Given the changes to the 50% units and 50% Power Level for ambushing this is the list that seemed to generate itself for me. Brigade!
Nice! Nothing immediately stands out to me as a potential issue. Might be worth finding the points to upgrade to Clearance Incinerators on the Rockgrinders if they are going to be advancing each turn.
I can reduce a bunch of upgrades, drop the Iconward and add two more Lascannon Sentinels for saturation.
I'd probably hold on to the Iconward. The relic banner is very much appreciated by Purestrain Genestealers for their infantry munching duties and helps slightly if they are forced to fight against T8.
I have a bunch of nids, and i'm looking to get into GSC -- however, I don't want to buy tanks, or anything mechcanical, due to personal 'fluff' that I think is cool.
That being said, I have a local person willing to sell me 8 abberants, 38 Acolyte Hybrids (Seemingly all the same), 7 Heavy Weapon Neophyte and 34 Neophyte Hybrids (seemingly, mostly rifles, but some shotgun/grenade) for $180
1) Is that a good price? Theyre hard to find on ebay, so its hard to really 'know'
2) Is that a good start to the army, or would I be buying a lot of useless stuff? (I have 20 Purestrains already)
3) Can I easily convert the acolytes in this box to have the heavy weapons, if I buy them somewhere? Or to a metamorph if i find the bits?
4) Can the neophytes be easily converted to have shotguns?
I don't know enough about tyranids, so there might be some useful things here that I'm missing. But I'll comment on the GSC part of the list.
Purestrains work better in bigger units. They need to be able to take a bit of overwatch shooting and still be at 10+ for the extra attack, so at least 12 each. If you want them to be a problem even the turn after they ambushed, take even bigger units.
You need two primus. Both the purestrain units will want to be delivered with one each to minimize the random of their cult ambush.
I can't make the trucks feel useful in my lists. They are expensive and not that powerful. (I'd rather have more infantry, or tanks) But maybe you have a thing going here, where there will be no soft targets on the field turn one?
The beta rules from the recent FAQ makes us deployt at least half or our power levels on the table from the start. With your current list that shouldn't be a problem, but it might be if you up the size of your genestealer units. A neat trick to cover that is to simply add one model to the neophyte units, they will increase in PL to 10. They can still fit inside the trucks because the HW-team only counts as one model.
KnarlocChan wrote: Hey guys, I’m working on starting Genestealer Cults. Can I get some feedback on a 2000 point list?
GSC: As mentioned, it would probably be a good idea to swap the Patriarch for another Primus to insure safe delivery. Since the bulk of the force is mechanized you won't really need the Patriarch's moral immunity bubble and being able to insure the Purstrains end up in a favorable position is going to be very important given they are the only real melee threat in the detachment. I like the Neophyte + Goliath squads, only thing I am not sure on would be the Power Mauls. I'd probably leave them off if possible and use the points saved from the Patriarch to add some Grenade Launchers to each squad.
Tyranids: Not sure about the Warlord trait, as Mawlocs aren't exactly the greatest fighters and the Tyrant himself will probably want to avoid combat where possible. That said, the Mawlocs should provide good disruption capabilities for the Purestrains and draw fire away from your mechanized elements.
AM: Not much to say here. Provides long-range fire support and does so well. Depending on the circumstances you might want to make the Company Commander your warlord and give him the CP regeneration tools (warlord trait and relic). If such is done you can still spend 1 CP to get the Cameleonic Mutation for the Tyrant.
I'd be very keen to see any battle reports featuring the list. Looks like fun if nothing else.
As a nidplayer, maybe I can give you some pointers on the tyranid-part of the army.
Don't take the toxin sacs on the mawlocs, they are there to distract and the whole purpose for them is to die. 8 attacks seems really good but 0 AP... My mawlocs never do any damage to even marines. I wouldn't take the flyrant as the warlord, he will get targeted down. Easy kill...
As the Chameleonic Mutation is a Kraken-special I assume you will go Kraken? Have you thought about Jormangunder? The detachment is more for the Mawlocs and the +1 save will make them so much harder to kill. If even one survives you can tie up so much with it Leivathain is also a option for the 6++ but then you have to have the Flyrant nearby for the synapse.
Mawlocs are still awesome but the FAQ did hurt their uses. But still, to have 3 big monsters that look scary in your opponents face will make some panic.
Does anyone play Age of Sigmar or other 40k Armies and could extrapolate from existing rules to guess at what we might be seeing in our codex? We've got a pretty unique army but I suspect there are similar mechanics in AoS but that's a black box for me.
Does anyone have any speculation on what the Brood Brothers doctrines might be?
My dreams are:
-Orders for ab-humans (ratlings and Bullgryn/Ogryn)
-Sentinel Commanders that can order Sentinels
-LD boost when near Cult HQ or Genestealer units
I'm hoping for a toughness boost on the Abberants in the codex, or some sort or rule to make them tougher. It would also be nice to be able to re-spawn Neophytes.
My dream for brood brothers is that it allows Astra Militarum units get into Genestealer Cult transports and vice versa. Open-topped Goliath Truck filled with plasma or lascannons? How about a Baneblade variant stuffed with purestrains?
Somewhere in the new changes there's a ruling about moving/advancing after coming in from reinforcements. Basically you can't. For example GW said you can't use Warp Time to move or use the Swarmlord's ability or a stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Tyranids codex.
Does this completely hose the Cult Ambush rules? Does our Cult Ambush override this rule? What is the logic to explain why it effects us or does not effect us?
Caspian89 wrote: Does anyone play Age of Sigmar or other 40k Armies and could extrapolate from existing rules to guess at what we might be seeing in our codex? We've got a pretty unique army but I suspect there are similar mechanics in AoS but that's a black box for me.
Does anyone have any speculation on what the Brood Brothers doctrines might be?
My dreams are:
-Orders for ab-humans (ratlings and Bullgryn/Ogryn)
-Sentinel Commanders that can order Sentinels
-LD boost when near Cult HQ or Genestealer units
I'm hoping for a toughness boost on the Abberants in the codex, or some sort or rule to make them tougher. It would also be nice to be able to re-spawn Neophytes.
I'm hoping for ways to make Cult Ambush more reliable. It even seems like a reasonable expectation given how GW has been treating it as our core mechanic in both Chapter Approved and the latest FAQ.
Things that might contribute to that:
- Models that contribute, like the primus
- Changed ambush table, where there are fewer really bad alternatives
- Several stratagems to affect cult ambush
- Different cults having different "flavours" and at least one of them contributes to cult ambush
I'm a bit worried that the brood brother rules will be restricted so we can only take datacards that have the <regiment> keyword. So no more psykers, ogryns or tempestus scions for example. But likely then with some trade off where those we can take integrates even better with the rest of our army.
Caspian89 wrote: Does anyone play Age of Sigmar or other 40k Armies and could extrapolate from existing rules to guess at what we might be seeing in our codex? We've got a pretty unique army but I suspect there are similar mechanics in AoS but that's a black box for me.
My best guesses:
Spoiler:
1. While there is a chance there won't be any sub-faction rules given that no unit has a <subfaction> tag in the index, if we do get them I imagine the GSC "chapter tactics" equivalent will probably be called "Gambits", tying into Deathwatch:Overkill.
2. Assuming we do get sub-faction rules, I'd expect to see the <Cult> tag added to unit entries with Cult of the Four Armed Emperor, Pauper Princes, Bladed Cog, Rusted Claw, and Hivecult as available sub-factions. These five had fairly extensive background in the 7th edition book and pages dedicated to their color schemes. - Cult of the Four Armed Emperor is the "poster boy" color scheme used on the boxes and in Deathwatch Overkill, so their trait would probably be the most general purpose one. Possibly something with Cult Ambush or the -1 to hit at >12'' trait since the army as a whole had the stealth special rule in 7th edition. - Cult of the Rusted Claw is the color scheme used for the pictures accompanying the unit entries within the 7th edition codex. Their background paints them being obsessed with entropy (worshiping the "metallophagic wyrm" ), so I could see them having the extra AP in close combat trait or possibly a reroll to wound trait (maybe both). - Hivecult is shown as being an extremely militant cult with a lot of captured AM equipment, so they will probably be the "shooty" sub-faction like Kronos is for Tyranids. - The Bladed Cog hails from an Adeptus Mechanicus dominated world, so their trait might reflect the superior quality of their equipment (seeing as they can pinch it right from the assembly line) or possibly bionic augmentations. - The Pauper Princes are mentioned as being particularly fanatical and prescient, so they might get a moral improving trait coupled with a "once per phase reroll" ability like Salamanders.
3. We will probably see quite a few of the old Formation bonuses bought back as stratagems. I'm expecting: - A stratagem that allows units to reload their demolition charges if near or riding in a vehicle with a demolition cache (Demolition Claw) - A stratagem that that allows Sentinels to Cult Ambush (Neophyte Cavalcade) or vehicles to ambush from a flank (also Neophyte Cavalcade) - A stratagem that allows a unit embarked on a Goliath Truck to disembark after the Goliath Truck moves, albeit at the risk of taking mortal wounds (Deliverance Broodsurge) - A stratagem version of Telepathic Summons (the old summoning psychic power) with the CP cost replacing the Warp Charge cost. Will need reinforcement points. - A stratagem akin to Tide of Traitors or Fresh Coverts that removes a targeted infantry unit and redeploys it back at full strength, possibly via Cult Ambush. (Numbers Beyond Counting from the Cult Uprising detachment) - A stratagem similar to Forward Operatives that allows infantry units to infiltrate up the board turn 1 (Subterrain Uprising). - A few Astra Militarum stratagems repurposed for the Cults (Go! Recon! and Crush 'em! being the most likely).
4. Small tweaks to some units. - Iconward changed to affect units rather than models, possibly see the range of their bubble increased back to 12''. - Patriarch capped at 1 per detachment (for fluff reasons). - Familiars given back their Rending Claws and given a 6+ invulnerable save, possibly moved to ELITES as an option that requires bringing a Patriarch or Magnus to unlock (like Drukahri Beastmasters unlock a beast unit or an Archon unlocks Court of the Archon models) - Metamorph weapons given an overhaul, possibly adding Flesh Hooks and Acid Maws as equipment options like they did for the Hive Fleet Genestealers since there are metamoph heads with said biomorphs. - Acolytes and Metamorphs both given a slight cost reduction. - Purestrain Genestealers changed to have the same equipment options as their Hive Fleet counterparts (baring a new kit) and infestation node deployment option. - Goliath Rockgrinder might gain the open topped rule to reflect its old ability in 7th that allowed embarked units to shoot despite not being an open topped vehicle (done mostly so it wouldn't hurt itself as bad while tank-shocking/ramming). - Mining Lasers and Heavy Mining Lasers might be changed to a flat 3 damage per shot as they are in Necromunda, with the reduced range and lower max damage being the trade-off compared to a standard Lascannon.
5. I expect to see the Cult Ambush table tweaked again, mainly results 1-3 as the first two are somewhat redundant (main difference being who rolls to see where the units arrive) and result 3 was a direct port from the previous version where arriving 12'' away in the open was normal. Alternatively they might change it to a pseudo D3 with results 1-2 and 3-4 being merged while 5-6 remain as-is.
That said, while speculating is fun it is probably wise to keep the topic mostly oriented towards tactics. A bit is fine of course, but we probably don't want pages of wishlisting cluttering up things.
Also on a related note, when the time comes and our codex arrives should I update the main post with codex information or would it be better to make a new thread?
Caspian89 wrote: Somewhere in the new changes there's a ruling about moving/advancing after coming in from reinforcements. Basically you can't. For example GW said you can't use Warp Time to move or use the Swarmlord's ability or a stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Tyranids codex.
Does this completely hose the Cult Ambush rules? Does our Cult Ambush override this rule? What is the logic to explain why it effects us or does not effect us?
It is in the main rulebook FAQ. I don't believe it affects Cult Ambush as the extra movement is granted as part of the unit's deployment rather than an outside ability. To put it another way, the movement from results 5 or 6 comes into effect before the part in the rulebook that states a model cannot move further after arriving from reserves since they are making the movement as part of their arriving from reserves.
That said, while speculating is fun it is probably wise to keep the topic mostly oriented towards tactics. A bit is fine of course, but we probably don't want pages of wishlisting cluttering up things.
Fair enough! It's great to get your input though, I didn't play in 7th, don't have the codex from then. So knowing what is likely is really entertaining and fun, appreciated.
Also on a related note, when the time comes and our codex arrives should I update the main post with codex information or would it be better to make a new thread?
I think it's fair to start a new thread...I don't see why having 1 big one is any advantage over having 1 streamlined one.
Caspian89 wrote: Somewhere in the new changes there's a ruling about moving/advancing after coming in from reinforcements. Basically you can't. For example GW said you can't use Warp Time to move or use the Swarmlord's ability or a stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Tyranids codex.
Does this completely hose the Cult Ambush rules? Does our Cult Ambush override this rule? What is the logic to explain why it effects us or does not effect us?
It is in the main rulebook FAQ. I don't believe it affects Cult Ambush as the extra movement is granted as part of the unit's deployment rather than an outside ability. To put it another way, the movement from results 5 or 6 comes into effect before the part in the rulebook that states a model cannot move further after arriving from reserves since they are making the movement as part of their arriving from reserves.
Thanks for the language on that. I didn't want to be caught without a coherent answer if challenged. Now I have one. Cheers.
Am I right in thinking that if we get turn 1 we could Cult Ambush 3 units of 20 Neophytes pretty much 9-12" from our enemies deployment zone so that;
1) every enemy unit that cannot fly or has the fly keyword can only move in their DZ and up to 1" of our enemy models so that prevents board control and them getting objectives.
2) we can deploy "smartly" with the Neophytes to basically make no room for anything our opponent has to deepstrike in
3) create enough bodies that even if the "NeoWave" last at least 2 turns of shooting and charging?
Am I right in thinking all this and how much will my opponent hate me of I do this tactic? All fair in love and wargames
Odrankt wrote: Am I right in thinking that if we get turn 1 we could Cult Ambush 3 units of 20 Neophytes pretty much 9-12" from our enemies deployment zone so that;
1) every enemy unit that cannot fly or has the fly keyword can only move in their DZ and up to 1" of our enemy models so that prevents board control and them getting objectives.
2) we can deploy "smartly" with the Neophytes to basically make no room for anything our opponent has to deepstrike in
3) create enough bodies that even if the "NeoWave" last at least 2 turns of shooting and charging?
Am I right in thinking all this and how much will my opponent hate me of I do this tactic? All fair in love and wargames
It is an interesting idea. Neophytes are cheap enough that you should have room to include some heavy hitters that can capitalize on the opponent being contained within their deployment zone and it does buy time for mechanized units to trundle up the board while the enemy deals with the immediate threat. The biggest issue I see is probably going to be moral. You will probably want an Iconward or Patriarch to ambush alongside to mitigate the results of casualties so they will have to invest more into removing the Neophyte counter-screen than they would like.
The question then becomes, Shotguns or Autoguns/Lasguns? Shotguns would love starting that close to the enemy (potentially even within S4 range) and are fine being run cheap, but Autoguns/Lasguns are slightly more flexible due to their range advantage. Maybe a mix of both squads?
Odrankt wrote: Am I right in thinking that if we get turn 1 we could Cult Ambush 3 units of 20 Neophytes pretty much 9-12" from our enemies deployment zone so that;
1) every enemy unit that cannot fly or has the fly keyword can only move in their DZ and up to 1" of our enemy models so that prevents board control and them getting objectives.
2) we can deploy "smartly" with the Neophytes to basically make no room for anything our opponent has to deepstrike in
3) create enough bodies that even if the "NeoWave" last at least 2 turns of shooting and charging?
Am I right in thinking all this and how much will my opponent hate me of I do this tactic? All fair in love and wargames
It is an interesting idea. Neophytes are cheap enough that you should have room to include some heavy hitters that can capitalize on the opponent being contained within their deployment zone and it does buy time for mechanized units to trundle up the board while the enemy deals with the immediate threat. The biggest issue I see is probably going to be moral. You will probably want an Iconward or Patriarch to ambush alongside to mitigate the results of casualties so they will have to invest more into removing the Neophyte counter-screen than they would like.
The question then becomes, Shotguns or Autoguns/Lasguns? Shotguns would love starting that close to the enemy (potentially even within S4 range) and are fine being run cheap, but Autoguns/Lasguns are slightly more flexible due to their range advantage. Maybe a mix of both squads?
Thanks for the input. If you can Patriarch with your 1st unit of Neos you will be able to set the other 2 Neo units to get the Auto-pass morale buff. Even if a unit is forced a morale we can just spend 2 CPs to auto pass if we need too. If your worried bout spending to much CPs we can still take a AM Brood Brother detachment so we still have access to Grand Strat and K.Aquila to get CPs back.
I'm thinking of running this in my Next game. Might record it if people are interested in the game?
I'd like to see a battle report if you would be willing to do one. There aren't too many around and it would be neat to see how the idea works in practice rather than pure theory crafting.
On a related note, I've recently come into possession of quite a few Guardsmen missile launchers. Might be interesting to see how a couple truck-mounted squads with 2x Grenade Launcher and 1x Missile Launcher team play out.
I don't get to play that much so take this with a few grains of salt.
I really like what you're proposing with the 60 model, nigh-fearless screen but I'm not sure what your Neophyte ambush will accomplish in this list. A lot of your points is tanks and AM units that will just sit in your deployment zone and shoot. Are you just buying time to get more battle cannon shots off?
I see a lot of ambushers but not enough balance of Power Level or units to accommodate them. For my money I would be taking those 20 man units of Neophytes and matching them with aggressive assault units in transports. I would take units of 6 Acolytes with 2x Saws in Rockgrinders or 11 man units (15PL!) in a Chimera with a Primus. That way you have your Neophytes tying them up and then you have this big sledge hammer coming up to finish the job. I suspect you'll want to keep those big units of Genestealers in reserve to do what they do, that Patriarch can then sally forth from his meat shield at the appropriate time to support his little bros. Getting the Power Level balance is tricky!
I also wonder how much damage could be done fishing for a 5 on the Cult ambush chart with those big Neophyte squads. You'll get 62 shooting phases! That's 80 autogun shots...not great, but also not terrible.
So, im mostly a painter that likes to play every 3 months so i need your help, what should i get for my army next.
Im going to add 3-4 boxes of units this month, but what, there are so many options.
I would like to go Astra Militarum side, there only few nids i really like.
Below is the list that i currently have.
HQ:
Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Patriarch
Primus
Troops:
15x Acolyte Hybrid
10x Neophyte Hybrid (AM version)
1x Heavy weapons team
Araablane wrote: So, im mostly a painter that likes to play every 3 months so i need your help, what should i get for my army next.
Im going to add 3-4 boxes of units this month, but what, there are so many options.
I would like to go Astra Militarum side, there only few nids i really like.
Leman Russes both work well and look great together in pairs.
If price is not an issue go Banblade chassies, enginseer, 2 primaris psykers in a sup command detachment. Covers pwr/pts for on board drops so rest of your force (minus bubblewrap) can cult ambush.
Uhh, Baneblade is the one thing I really want to get but I'm thinking about adding more different units before that because I can get so much more for that cost.
Hmm, should I get 2 or 3 Leman Russes and how good is artillery for GSC, love the models for Basilisk and Manticore models.
I have started to build up my first Cult and I am loving building and painting the models (going for a C7C Brotherhood of Nod paint scheme).
I really like the look of the Goliath rock grinder and was wondering how effective it would be to take 3 of these things with a primus (for the +1 to hit) and just smash them into the enemy lines? 18 + 3d3 "battle cannon shots" on the charge seems pretty good.
I am concerned they will die before they are able to reach the enemy. How would you deliver the Rock Grinders to the enemy lines? Would it be good to have a couple units of pure strains as a first wave distraction that enemy has to deal with?
I believe rockgrinders can be useful. I would transport a small assault unit inside (acolytes w saws or aberrants) to give a more reliable turn 2 delivery of them (more reliable than cult ambush without a primus). Combine with Russes and maybe sentinels to create target saturation of heavy armour.
Mocked up a quick mechanized list around this idea. Genestealers + Primus ambush each turn. One primus rides with aberrants. Neophytes ambush aiming for an objective. Could be fun to play!
I have started to build up my first Cult and I am loving building and painting the models (going for a C7C Brotherhood of Nod paint scheme).
As an RTS fan, that is a thematically brilliant idea! I'm quite attached to my own color scheme, but that should look really nice on the table. Maybe make a Temple of Nod ('Nid) from a Vortex Missile bunker to go with the theme?
I really like the look of the Goliath rock grinder and was wondering how effective it would be to take 3 of these things with a primus (for the +1 to hit) and just smash them into the enemy lines? 18 + 3d3 "battle cannon shots" on the charge seems pretty good.
I am concerned they will die before they are able to reach the enemy. How would you deliver the Rock Grinders to the enemy lines? Would it be good to have a couple units of pure strains as a first wave distraction that enemy has to deal with?
I usually run 3 Goliath Rockgrinders alongside 3-5 Goliath Trucks in mechanized lists and saturation of both hulls and Rugged Construction usually sees them through. There are usually at least two of the Goliath Trucks loaded with Demolition Charge Acolytes in said list, which makes for a similarly aggressive threat to help to draw some of the firepower away from the Rockgrinders while they advance. Here was the original version of the list if you're interested (near the bottom of the post).
I'm hoping that Rockgrinders will regain their old Squadron rules with the codex. If not for the recent Errata I'd consider doing a T7 spam list with a 50/50 mix of Rockgrinders and Chimeras. Chimeras probably aren't a bad idea regardless since they offer more flamer shots and threat saturation (more assault units to unload), but I only have 1 currently.
I'm hoping that Rockgrinders will regain their old Squadron rules with the codex. If not for the recent Errata I'd consider doing a T7 spam list with a 50/50 mix of Rockgrinders and Chimeras. Chimeras probably aren't a bad idea regardless since they offer more flamer shots and threat saturation (more assault units to unload), but I only have 1 currently.
Is there merit in running lists with only light armour, such as Basilisks, Sentinels and GSC Trucks? Is there a logic there of more units to take down as well as potentially 'wasting' the points your opponent paid for higher caliber weapons?
What errata are you referring to that would impact this strategy? Do you mean the one that incentivizes us to be more ambush centric?
Is there a logic there of more units to take down as well as potentially 'wasting' the points your opponent paid for higher caliber weapons?
Kinda. The main idea with such skew lists is to overwhelm the opponent's ability to deal with whatever defensive profile you are focusing on. Ideally they won't have enough specialized firepower to destroy more than a handful of such units a turn, so the rest can survive to do what they need to do. Any inefficiencies that arise from weaponry not having a good target is an added benefit, but your main goal is to force your opponent to make difficult choices as to what they really want dead and try to capitalize on it with the survivors.
What errata are you referring to that would impact this strategy? Do you mean the one that incentivizes us to be more ambush centric?
It was in the main rulebook errata/FAQ. In the event organizing section they added a new cap on the number of duplicate datasheets can be included in an army to the table that provided guidelines for how many detachments per point level and the size of the playing area for a given point value. The new limit restricts non-troop/dedicated transport unit based on how many points one is playing (under 1000 allows two duplicates, 1001 to 2000 allows three, 2001 to 3000 allows four, and so on). While the table is intended as guidelines rather than a strict rule per the introductory paragraph, most people take it as required, so in practice it limits most units to a maximum of 3 in average games.
Kinda. The main idea with such skew lists is to overwhelm the opponent's ability to deal with whatever defensive profile you are focusing on. Ideally they won't have enough specialized firepower to destroy more than a handful of such units a turn, so the rest can survive to do what they need to do. Any inefficiencies that arise from weaponry not having a good target is an added benefit, but your main goal is to force your opponent to make difficult choices as to what they really want dead and try to capitalize on it with the survivors.
It was in the main rulebook errata/FAQ. In the event organizing section they added a new cap on the number of duplicate datasheets can be included in an army to the table that provided guidelines for how many detachments per point level and the size of the playing area for a given point value. The new limit restricts non-troop/dedicated transport unit based on how many points one is playing (under 1000 allows two duplicates, 1001 to 2000 allows three, 2001 to 3000 allows four, and so on). While the table is intended as guidelines rather than a strict rule per the introductory paragraph, most people take it as required, so in practice it limits most units to a maximum of 3 in average games.
That's clear and helpful, thank-you. Luckily for us Leman Russes and Sentinels have the squadron rules so we can deploy 3 models as a single datasheet entry right? So if I was crazy enough I could run 9 Armoured sentinels and still be within the limit.
We can still take 3 Rockgrinders and infinite Goliath's since they are transports, which I believe dodge the rule of three. So it looks like I can still make the dream of the mechanised list work. And given that the Sentinels had deepstrike rules in the last Codex I suspect (hope!) that this will be the case in the new one as well. But I doubt this will extend to the Sentinel variant I most want to have deepstrike, Sentinel Power Lifters.
Im thinking about a 1550 of GSC, how does this list seem like.
Most will be in cult ambush and drop in.
Patriach, Primus, Magus, Purestrain and Abberants will all come via Cult Ambush.
Primus will buff the Genestealers to get the best change of rolling and Magus will try to buff something when on the board.
At the moment im thinking of putting Acolyte iconward with 5 acolyte hybrids in Goliath rockgrinder and the other 5 in to the Chimera to give more targets to shoot at.
Im not sure about the Magus, may be a second Primus would be better?
Araablane wrote:Im thinking about a 1550 of GSC, how does this list seem like.
I think you have too many ambushers for the new matched play rules (45 power in reserves, 43 on the table) unfortunately. I'd probably consider swapping out the Patriarch for a second Rockgrinder for the other Acolyte unit to ride in and give the Chimera to the Aberrants. That frees up the Primus to lead the Genestealer bomb and frees up a big chunk of power level for your other ambushers. Alternatively, you could use the left-over points from the Rockgrinder swap to add another Acolyte to each squad for a net +10 power level which would pay for the Aberrants as ambushers (in this case have the Iconward ride in the Chimera with the Neophytes).
So I played a 1250pt game vs Necrons. 1 unit of Genestealers Cult back by Might from Beyond killed a unit of 9 Tomb Blades, Canoptek Sentinel, Canoptek Wraiths and a Catacomb Command Barge. it was outrageous.
Okay, i made some changes but now i have a few questions.
Should both squads of Abberants ride with Chimera or should i try to Ambush 1 or both of them in and but the Neophytes to the Chimera?
Im thinking that i should add the Magus to one of the Goliaths so he realibly gets near Purestrains or Abberants to buff them or worse case buffs Acolyte Hybrids.
Odrankt wrote:So I played a 1250pt game vs Necrons. 1 unit of Genestealers backed by Might from Beyond killed a unit of 9 Tomb Blades, Canoptek Sentinel, Canoptek Wraiths and a Catacomb Command Barge. it was outrageous.
Genestealers in general are rather good against Necrons. Most Necron Vehicles require volume of attacks over quality attacks to disable (with relatively low toughness, this is fairly easy with Might from Beyond or the Icon) and the Genestealer's 5+ Invul isn't affected by the extra AP Gauss weapons tend to have. On the downside, Tesla chews them up rather bad, but Mass Hypnosis can mitigate that to a small degree (-1 to hit means no extra Telsa hits unless they use My Will Be Done to make up the difference).
Araablane wrote:Okay, i made some changes but now i have a few questions. Should both squads of Abberants ride with Chimera or should i try to Ambush 1 or both of them in and but the Neophytes to the Chimera?
That is probably something to be decided on a game-by-game basis. Against a gunline for instance you may be better served by ambushing while against a more mid-field or assault minded opponent the Chimera will suffice. Putting one or both squads in the Chimera does have the advantage of fewer drops which makes it more likely you will get the +1 to go first, which is helpful.
Araablane wrote: Im thinking that i should add the Magus to one of the Goliaths so he realibly gets near Purestrains or Abberants to buff them or worse case buffs Acolyte Hybrids.
It is a fairly good place for him to go if they are not ambushing. Might be wise to have him go with the Neophytes in the Chimera if the Aberrants choose to ambush, as they offer the best protection for the points and like his bubble ability.
IMHO: Leman Russes. Heavy weapon teams with mortars. Basilisks or manticores. Infantry squads and commanders. Possibly ogryns and crusaders (with a priest and/or an astropath ofc) as they have more staying power than the melee units in our army.
More or less what Mellon said (I'd add tank commanders and the Hellhound variants - nice with Rockgrinders). The main thing to look for from Brood Brothers is durability to counteract the fragile nature of GSC, followed by chaff clearing tools to allow melee units to do their job. I'm not sure if they are quite as good at enabling ambushes as they used to be due to the new PL requirements (Guard units tend to be fairly cheap), but they do provide a good firebase to build upon regardless.
To pass some of the time between now and the eventual Codex: Genestealer Cults release:
What sort of things are you expecting in the codex? What sort of stratagems? Any subfaction traits? How will they adapt previous relics, psychic powers and warlord traits (from 7e) to 8th edition, as has happened with all other codexes?
What sort of things are you expecting not to happen in the codex?
Where do you expect we might stand on the 'tier list' after a codex? Are there certain aspects of "what it is to be Genestealer Cults" that make it difficult to be really good/really bad?
Points reductions on acolytes and matamorphs is almost a certainty.
We will have subfaction traits (I was chatting to a rules writer at warhammer fest who more or less said as such)
I'm expecting more movement shenanigans, some sort of -1 to hit or something for units arriving from the shadows would be nice. An element of surprise type thing.
Would be good to see Imperial Guard allies 'brood brothers' actually get some kind of trait instead of just being worse guard.
Sneggy wrote: Points reductions on acolytes and matamorphs is almost a certainty.
We will have subfaction traits (I was chatting to a rules writer at warhammer fest who more or less said as such)
I'm expecting more movement shenanigans, some sort of -1 to hit or something for units arriving from the shadows would be nice. An element of surprise type thing.
Would be good to see Imperial Guard allies 'brood brothers' actually get some kind of trait instead of just being worse guard.
Did you hear anything about other rules? The reason I thought that we wouldn't get subfaction traits is because we don't have a <REGIMENT>, <DYNASTY>, <MASQUE>, <LEGION> etc. equivalent keyword (despite having subfactions referenced in the fluff). That's really good to hear though if true!
On this darkly glorious day of war, the cult’s warriors are already ten steps ahead of the enemy. Saboteurs have shattered the supply lines of those who would oppose them, hidden agents have assassinated key commanders, and routes of escape have been cut off by demolition crews and blast teams. Every eventuality the cult’s masters could foresee is accounted for, every advantage stacked in their favour. The enemy find their ammunition crates empty, their fuel reserves dry, their transport craft hijacked and their supporting fleet holed and listing in orbit. When the cult attacks, the enemy is already surrounded, stranded and half-beaten, ripe for a slaughter long planned.
Just for reference, here's the Agents of Vect flavour text:
"The Supreme Overlord of Commorragh develops countermeasures for every concievable course of events, and he teaches his Kabalites to bring the enemy's best-laid plans to ruin."
It would seem fitting to have this sort of "trickery based stratagem".
Sneggy wrote: Only other thing they mentioned was that the codex might be "sooner than I expected".
I mean nothings announced after Knights right?
Nothing is announced after Knights. Furthermore, Genestealer Cults are an army that will likely fit into a 1 week schedule (maybe 2 if they release ""new"" kits, like separately boxed HQs and Aberrants. I'd love to see them in June, but maybe they'll see a July release?
hopefully a 2 week with individually packaged characters and abberrants outside the main box. I wouldnt be surprised to see them in the next wave of 3 codices.
I wonder what sorts of subfaction traits we'd get. Going from the 7e codex, we have the following subfactions:
Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor
Spoiler:
"The Cult of the Four-armed Emperor was originally incepted by the Trysst Dynasty of Ghosar Quintus. It spread its dire influence far and wide before coming under attack from the Deathwatch of the Adeptus Astartes. A dozen new infections have since grown in its image – the Genestealers the original Tryssts sent to other planets under the guise of industrial shipments have sired new generations and variant cults in their turn"
Cult of the Rusted Claw
Spoiler:
"The Cult of the Rusted Claw came to prominence on the planet of Newseam. The oppressive regime of the planet’s overseers saw the cult spread its creed throughout the bitter and resentful citizen-workers with shocking speed. The hybrids of the cult believe that an eternally hungry beast called the metallophagic wyrm will devour not only the flesh of the unbeliever, but also his creations."
"The worldwide minecorps that toil beneath Newseam unearth hundreds of tons of precious metal from the planet’s crust each day. The sickeningly rich upworlders forbid the downtrodden miners from keeping the metal they dig out from the seams, let alone spending it, but much is smuggled away nonetheless. Known as the Cult of the Rusted Claw, this embittered brotherhood believes that the all-consuming emptiness of the void devours all, even metal. They see the tarnish of every coin and the rust that eats away at every vehicle as divine entropy brought to their world by their Patriarch, and they welcome its spread. Only when the oppression of the upworlders is gnawed away completely will they be truly free. Their symbol shows the cog of industry being consumed by the wyrm-form that represents the Patriarch’s great hunger."
The Hive Cult
Spoiler:
"Perhaps unwittingly inspired by the coming of Hive Fleet Leviathan, the brotherhood of the Hivecult wear regalia of bone-white and purple. There are those in the Imperium aware of the cult’s infection of New Gidlam and their infiltration of the Astra Militarum defenders. However, each hive’s populace numbers in the billions, and the cult is well versed in the arts of secrecy, revealing its true numbers only when sure of victory."
"The Hivecult is a prime example of a Genestealer infection that has spread like wildfire across a densely populated Imperial world. The planet of New Gidlam has thirteen hives upon its pollution-blasted surface, each harbouring tens of billions of souls. All bar one is besieged from below by the same cult. Though the cult’s emergence began in each hive with a spate of ritual killings, the violence soon blossomed into all-out war. The icon of the bladed wyrm-form is carried by all the dynasty’s members, whether they be the brood brothers of New Gidlam’s Astra Militarum regiments, or the hive gangs themselves. So militarised is the cult that the icons themselves are weaponised, appearing in stylised form as knuckle dusters, throwing stars or daggers. They are often used to slay those who stand in the cult’s way, an act rich in symbolism originally started by the cult’s Magus."
The Bladed Cog
Spoiler:
"Infesting the forge-clades of Feinminster Gamma is the cult of the Bladed Cog. The code-brands and electoos with which the planet’s Tech-Priest overseers mark their citizen workers are often altered in illicit inker-dens. The Omnissiah’s Cog is changed and adapted to better resemble the jag-spined emblem with which the creed marks out its faithful. Slogan-tattoos are also common, worn across the collarbones or spine."
The slave revolt of the planet Feinminster Gamma eventually proved more powerful than the Cult Mechanicus crusade that surged across its surface. The army of Tech-Priest Dominus Ovid Thrensiom had arrived in force seeking a rich harvest of bio-electricty from the planet’s living population. The atmosphere of oppression and paranoia that resulted was fertile ground for the spread of an underground religion. When a Purestrain Genestealer was unwittingly borne to the planet’s surface by the freighter Redspark , a widespread cult was soon to follow. The xenoform was seen as proof that there were other worlds beyond the clouds and that salvation could be found in its worship. When Thrensiom was overthrown, the broodkin of the Bladed Cog swapped one set of cruel masters for another, though the latter brotherhood are infinitely worse."
Infestations Beyond Number
Spoiler:
"Upon the fringes of Ultramar operate the Behemoid Undercult. This hidden organisation is of such cunning it has infested several worlds, despite continued attacks from the Tyrannic War Veterans trained by Ortan Cassius. There are rumours the cult’s founders once worshipped a battle-scarred Tyranid monstrosity trapped in ice, and that they still revere that great beast alongside their own Patriarch as the saints of a new order."
The Innerwyrm
Spoiler:
"The Innerwyrm Cult infests the abattoir world of Fleishgate. A lynchpin planet that provides the meat of grox, grontock and bovian to the Mawdlin System, Fleishgate has long been taken over by a Genestealer Cult. They take their inspiration from the arm-length intestinal parasites they find within the guts of their livestock, just as their hidden cult grows strong within the fat-bodied mass of Humanity’s ignorant herd. The use of the saw-spined wyrm-symbol, inspired in part by the meatslasher machines the Innerwyrm cultists use in their daily slaughter, is not confined to Fleishgate. Many cults have elements that use ripping circular saws, whether to grind rock, cut through steelwood roots or salvage the parts of industrial machines – it is common for such broods to echo this sigil upon their own standards."
The Pauper Princes
Spoiler:
"The Pauper Princes have all but taken over the slum world of Chancer’s Vale. Most of the populace lives in the squalid shanty towns that pepper the coasts, their skin badly desiccated by the constant salt-mining of minerals from its barren seas. Such is the deprivation and abject poverty of this world that many of its people turned to worship of the cult – not because they were forced to by coercion or the Genestealer’s Kiss, but because they are desperate for a way off-planet. The promises of Magus Marovitch Tenndarc saw swathes of the world’s populace united in their devotions to the Star Saviour. Every Emperor’s Day the Magus sermonised to rapturous crowds about the glories to come. Magus Tenndarc died saving the Star Saviour himself – the cult’s Patriarch – by diving in front of a Ratling sniper’s bullet. The abhuman assassin was torn to pieces within the hour, Tenndarc attained the status of saint, and the cult’s flock quadrupled in size"
The Twisted Helix
Spoiler:
"Hailing from the macro-alchemical distilleries that provide the medicae-class civilised world of Vejovium III with its exported medicines, the cult of the Twisted Helix has spread far and wide. The cult’s broodkin skulk in enormous medifactoria that appear from the aristocracy’s spires like the laboratory of some godly sage, all spiral glass pipelines and chimneys that belch strangely coloured smoke. At a high cost in volunteers’ lives, the magisters of the industrial cult have learned how to extract the germ-seed of the Genestealer and incorporate it into the curative syringe-phials that form a major part of Vejovium’s medical exports. Though the imperfections of this bio-alchemical breakthrough have resulted in a great many aberrations and metamorphs, the process has seen the Twisted Helix swiftly spread its curse with across the Vejovium System and beyond"
From these, there are a lot of potential types of subfaction bonuses we could potentially have.
Usually subfaction bonuses have similar duplicates seen in previous codexes. I wonder what sort of things we'll get.
Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor: Maybe something generic and Cult Ambush related, to give us more control over the table? Like the ability to do +/- 1 to the roll after rolling.
Cult of the Rusted Claw: Maybe something anti-vehicle, like re-roll wounds/damage?
The Hive Cult: Something to do with Brood Brothers? Maybe the option to give some Cult Ambush, or allowing you to take them in a Genestealer Cults detachment without preventing Cult Ambush?
The Bladed Cog: Not too sure, maybe something vehicle related.
Infestations Beyond Number: The fluff definitely refers to Old One Eye, I don't know how that could be worked in - maybe something similar to what I suggested for the Hive Cult, but with Tyranid allies?
The Innerwyrm: Something that increases the effectiveness of combat, particularly with mining weapons?
The Pauper Princes: Not sure, maybe some better form of Undying Loyalty (could be a Warlord trait).
The Twisted Helix: Something that benefits Metamorphs and Aberrants in particular?
Obviously we wouldn't get all of these, but there's a lot of potential. What do people think for subfaction traits?
I didn't play in 7th edition but I'm happy that this 'educated speculation' is happening....It's a long wait! The good news is that I should have my 2000 points fully painted by the time the codex comes out.
Okay, so here's what I know about the Codex: Genestealer Cults, compiled from rumours I've seen.
Explicitly about Genestealer Cults:
"I spoke to one of the rules guys upstairs [at Warhammer Fest] and he did basically confirm that Orks, Wolves and Genestealer Cults were the next three codexes after the current batch (Deathwatch, Harlequins and Knights)." Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceWolves/comments/8iuukp/warhammer_fest/dyw85rf/
"I don't know anything about the Genestealer Cult Codex. [...] Genestealer Cults are coming out this year though, but I have no idea when.". Source: https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=TGP55-eks4Y Note that this source seems to know a lot about codexes before release.
From uberbeast9000 on the 3++ chatroom (April 22nd 2018): "I got a hint from [Frontline Gaming] that GSC might be the last Codex out of [Orks, Space Wolves and Genestealer Cults]." Source (will require heavy scrolling): http://www.3plusplus.net
From uberbeast9000 on the 3++ chatroom (April 22nd 2018): "So I am friends with Reece and Frankie and every time I play them with my GSC the only thing they constantly tell me is: "Your army is going to be amazing soon." So I think they aren't getting worse. However, they could just mean...your 11 point guardsmen might cost less points soon. They haven't made any explicit references to rules that might be changed that I've picked up on." Source (will require heavy scrolling): http://www.3plusplus.net
Inferences we can make from other rumours/areas:
Not a link or sourced point, but as we've seen this with every codex with an update in Chapter Approved previously, the Stratagems, Warlord Trait, and Relics from Chapter Approved 2017 will be found in the codex.
As we can assume Genestealer Cults to be coming in the same wave as Space Wolves/Orks, if we know Space Wolves/Orks are coming around December, we can be fairly sure Genestealer Cults will be released around then. This source (which was deleted from the French forums it was posted on, but is still quoted on dakkadakka at the link provided. According to this, Space Wolves are coming out around the "end [of] August", and Orks are coming in "November - December", after a Slaanesh release (as it looks like the releases are organised chronologically). Might we expect Genestealer Cults to come between the two, in around September/October? The actual source is quoted on dakkadakka here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1590/748328.page
"I was informed that summer is massive for 40k and AoS. 30% of product from either side being sent back to GWHQ and replaced with new product. I was told by a store manager." Source: The Wargaming Discord server 24/05/2018, 19:29 UK time.
Things I've been told by someone with what appears to be good authority, but I don't think I can share my source for:
As of the 25th of May 2018, the Genestealer Cults codex has not yet been initialised (i.e. it is not yet ready to be printed).
As they'll be in the same release wave as Orks (which are apparently December 2018), the Genestealer Cult codex will likely be much later in the year.
Information I saw, but now I'm trying to re-find the sources for:
Genestealer Cults are coming last week of September 2018
Interesting things I've seen with regards to playtesting as a whole:
From uberbeast9000 on the 3++ chatroom (April 22nd 2018): "They also don't test the books in the order they are released. So they could have tested GSC a year ago, but GW didn't want to release it then. The release schedule is not the design schedule." Source (will require heavy scrolling): http://www.3plusplus.net
From my (CaptainBetts') conversations with certain people, they don't have the same playtesting team for the codexes. For example, a playtester might work on the AdMech and Dark Eldar Codexes, but not on the Grey Knights or Tau codex.
That's all I have. Does anyone have any rumours themselves that they can contribute?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Caspian89 wrote: I didn't play in 7th edition but I'm happy that this 'educated speculation' is happening....It's a long wait! The good news is that I should have my 2000 points fully painted by the time the codex comes out.
I feel like we should have a Discord server or something, for real-time Genestealer Cults discussion. I made this one not long ago:
Automatically Appended Next Post: We might see a mention of Codex: Genestealer Cults at the UK Games Expo (1st - 3rd June 2018). Games Workshop are doing a Q&A session on the 1st. Source: http://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk/game.php?id=SEM3955.
Join us as we take an exclusive first look at just what’s in store for Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer Age of Sigmar and beyond for the next few months. You’ll be among the first in the world to know what the future holds and see some MAJOR reveals…
Captain Betts, you got bitten hard. Thanks for putting that list together. I'm expecting Q4....and trying to hold off spending $1 more on models until that Codex comes out.
CaptainBetts wrote: Okay, so here's what I know about the Codex: Genestealer Cults, compiled from rumours I've seen.
Explicitly about Genestealer Cults:
"I spoke to one of the rules guys upstairs [at Warhammer Fest] and he did basically confirm that Orks, Wolves and Genestealer Cults were the next three codexes after the current batch (Deathwatch, Harlequins and Knights)." Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceWolves/comments/8iuukp/warhammer_fest/dyw85rf/
"I don't know anything about the Genestealer Cult Codex. [...] Genestealer Cults are coming out this year though, but I have no idea when.". Source: https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=TGP55-eks4Y Note that this source seems to know a lot about codexes before release.
From uberbeast9000 on the 3++ chatroom (April 22nd 2018): "I got a hint from [Frontline Gaming] that GSC might be the last Codex out of [Orks, Space Wolves and Genestealer Cults]." Source (will require heavy scrolling): http://www.3plusplus.net
From uberbeast9000 on the 3++ chatroom (April 22nd 2018): "So I am friends with Reece and Frankie and every time I play them with my GSC the only thing they constantly tell me is: "Your army is going to be amazing soon." So I think they aren't getting worse. However, they could just mean...your 11 point guardsmen might cost less points soon. They haven't made any explicit references to rules that might be changed that I've picked up on." Source (will require heavy scrolling): http://www.3plusplus.net
Inferences we can make from other rumours/areas:
Not a link or sourced point, but as we've seen this with every codex with an update in Chapter Approved previously, the Stratagems, Warlord Trait, and Relics from Chapter Approved 2017 will be found in the codex.
As we can assume Genestealer Cults to be coming in the same wave as Space Wolves/Orks, if we know Space Wolves/Orks are coming around December, we can be fairly sure Genestealer Cults will be released around then. This source (which was deleted from the French forums it was posted on, but is still quoted on dakkadakka at the link provided. According to this, Space Wolves are coming out around the "end [of] August", and Orks are coming in "November - December", after a Slaanesh release (as it looks like the releases are organised chronologically). Might we expect Genestealer Cults to come between the two, in around September/October? The actual source is quoted on dakkadakka here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1590/748328.page
"I was informed that summer is massive for 40k and AoS. 30% of product from either side being sent back to GWHQ and replaced with new product. I was told by a store manager." Source: The Wargaming Discord server 24/05/2018, 19:29 UK time.
Things I've been told by someone with what appears to be good authority, but I don't think I can share my source for:
As of the 25th of May 2018, the Genestealer Cults codex has not yet been initialised (i.e. it is not yet ready to be printed).
As they'll be in the same release wave as Orks (which are apparently December 2018), the Genestealer Cult codex will likely be much later in the year.
Information I saw, but now I'm trying to re-find the sources for:
Genestealer Cults are coming last week of September 2018
Interesting things I've seen with regards to playtesting as a whole:
From uberbeast9000 on the 3++ chatroom (April 22nd 2018): "They also don't test the books in the order they are released. So they could have tested GSC a year ago, but GW didn't want to release it then. The release schedule is not the design schedule." Source (will require heavy scrolling): http://www.3plusplus.net
From my (CaptainBetts') conversations with certain people, they don't have the same playtesting team for the codexes. For example, a playtester might work on the AdMech and Dark Eldar Codexes, but not on the Grey Knights or Tau codex.
That's all I have. Does anyone have any rumours themselves that they can contribute?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Caspian89 wrote: I didn't play in 7th edition but I'm happy that this 'educated speculation' is happening....It's a long wait! The good news is that I should have my 2000 points fully painted by the time the codex comes out.
I feel like we should have a Discord server or something, for real-time Genestealer Cults discussion. I made this one not long ago:
Automatically Appended Next Post: We might see a mention of Codex: Genestealer Cults at the UK Games Expo (1st - 3rd June 2018). Games Workshop are doing a Q&A session on the 1st. Source: http://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk/game.php?id=SEM3955.
Join us as we take an exclusive first look at just what’s in store for Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer Age of Sigmar and beyond for the next few months. You’ll be among the first in the world to know what the future holds and see some MAJOR reveals…
CaptianBetts, can you take this to a rumor thread, this is for tactics.
Infestations Beyond Number: The fluff definitely refers to Old One Eye, I don't know how that could be worked in - maybe something similar to what I suggested for the Hive Cult, but with Tyranid allies?
Minor nitpick, but Infestations Beyond Number actually is a header for the section introducing multiple cults. The Behemoid Undercult is the one inspired by Old One Eye and Hive Fleet Behemoth. Incidentally, Hive Cult is said to be inspired by Hive Fleet Leviathan and there are Sons of Jormungandr and Cult Hydraic entries based on Jormungandr and Hydra respectively. I had my thoughts regarding sub-factions on the previous page, though as a minor adjustment I could see the Bladed Cog getting access to the -1 to hit trait as Overkill has a Gambit involving haywire machine spirits being unleashed by the cult to mess up targeting information and the Bladed Cog is in control of a forge world so presumably would have more knowledge of the machine cult that normal.
On a tactics related note, anyone else excited for the new Imperial Knights? I've generally found the Cult does very well against armies with heavy force concentration like the Knights and most of their new guns aren't especially scary for GSC (still get Unquestioning Loyalty against the new character-sniping missiles for example). Furthermore, Mind Control makes any Knight a huge liability for the opponent and most GSC armor cracking is melee oriented which bypasses the Ion Shields.
If I were to take an allied Bullgryn squad, what’s the preferred loadout and delivery method? Mauls and slabshields? 3 with a priest in a chimera, or 5-6 advancing up the board?
Sinful Hero wrote: If I were to take an allied Bullgryn squad, what’s the preferred loadout and delivery method? Mauls and slabshields? 3 with a priest in a chimera, or 5-6 advancing up the board?
I really dont see the point of Bullgryn in GSC as Aberrants do the job better except as maby a stationary body guard for your company commander/artillery blob.
Sinful Hero wrote: If I were to take an allied Bullgryn squad, what’s the preferred loadout and delivery method? Mauls and slabshields? 3 with a priest in a chimera, or 5-6 advancing up the board?
I really dont see the point of Bullgryn in GSC as Aberrants do the job better except as maby a stationary body guard for your company commander/artillery blob.
Mostly it’s as a modeling opportunity I want to try, with the Bullgryn as thinly disguised Abberants. With T5 and a 2+(Slabshield) I assumed they’d be more of a defensive unit/tarpit than the Abberants. I’d just like to know if I need to bother with 5-6 Bullgryn if the general tactic was to use them as a screening unit, or keep them at three with a Chimera to get them closer to where I want them.
Bullgryn work just fine on foot, they do not need a transport. When I take them I take 7 (for the bump in power level) and run them upfield with a Psyker casting Psychic Barrier, or nightshroud if I have two. For squad composition, all need mauls and I'd do 3 with a 4++, 4 with a 2+.
jifel wrote: Bullgryn work just fine on foot, they do not need a transport. When I take them I take 7 (for the bump in power level) and run them upfield with a Psyker casting Psychic Barrier, or nightshroud if I have two. For squad composition, all need mauls and I'd do 3 with a 4++, 4 with a 2+.
I realize this is more AM/IG than GSC, but are many people taking mechanized lists with Russes and Sentinels?
Currently looking at a spearhead detachment of 1 tank commander (executioner) and 3 russes, with some scout sentinels (still undecided between las/flamers). Filling out the rest of the points with a battallion of GSC, mostly for bubblewrap and objective holding, but ambushing acolytes do a lot of work themselves.
ajax_xaja wrote: I realize this is more AM/IG than GSC, but are many people taking mechanized lists with Russes and Sentinels?
Currently looking at a spearhead detachment of 1 tank commander (executioner) and 3 russes, with some scout sentinels (still undecided between las/flamers). Filling out the rest of the points with a battallion of GSC, mostly for bubblewrap and objective holding, but ambushing acolytes do a lot of work themselves.
Scout Sentinels should probably take Heavy Flamers since their main utility for GSC is mid-field interference on behalf of ambushers. If you have sufficient Elites available, you could move the Sentinels to the GSC detachment to enable a Brigade, as they do like the Primus' +1 to hit bubble and surprisingly there aren't that many IG exclusive abilities that benefit them outside of regimental doctrines (unlike Russes, who still get tank orders).
Not really. GSC can't use the AM regimental doctrines so most of the things that put Russes over the top aren't available. That said, they are still a strong firebase and good for enabling ambushes.
Mostly it’s as a modeling opportunity I want to try, with the Bullgryn as thinly disguised Abberants. With T5 and a 2+(Slabshield) I assumed they’d be more of a defensive unit/tarpit than the Abberants. I’d just like to know if I need to bother with 5-6 Bullgryn if the general tactic was to use them as a screening unit, or keep them at three with a Chimera to get them closer to where I want them.
The Ogryn models are quite a bit bigger than Aberrants, but thematically it works. I have not had an opportunity to run Bullgryns yet but in theory they should pair up well with GSC melee. You could mimic Cult Ambush to a degree with the one relic sword that allows a commander and select infantry to outflank, though it might be tricky to get enough power set aside to enable it.
Also incidentally, Warhammer Community teased a new Aberrant model and implied there might be a few other things releasing with him.
Im little bit confused, im using Battlescribe (yea, yea, buy the one book for AM) to make my AM Supreme command detachment for my Shadowsword and i see that Tech priest is now elite, didn't it used to be a HQ?
Or im remembering something wrong?
Araablane wrote: Im little bit confused, im using Battlescribe (yea, yea, buy the one book for AM) to make my AM Supreme command detachment for my Shadowsword and i see that Tech priest is now elite, didn't it used to be a HQ?
Or im remembering something wrong?
it's an HQ for Admech, elite for IG
EDIT: used to be elite for both but was promoted to HQ for admech in an FAQ or the codex, forget which
Okay, basically I'm trying to make a Supreme C. D. for my Shadowsword and seems like only option is 3x Primaris Psyker (HQ), Shadowsword (Lord of War), Tech- Priest Engineer (elite).
Or something else for the Elite slot?
Araablane wrote: Okay, basically I'm trying to make a Supreme C. D. for my Shadowsword and seems like only option is 3x Primaris Psyker (HQ), Shadowsword (Lord of War), Tech- Priest Engineer (elite).
Or something else for the Elite slot?
If I remember correctly the Elite is optional so if you don't want to spend points there you could leave it off (and for that matter I'm not sure if we can take the Tech-Priests given that they lack a <Regiment> keyword in favor of <Forge World> one). A commander isn't a bad idea if you want to take advantage of the relics or go with the CP regeneration route. Also tank commanders are an option as well if you want to add a bit more fire support with BS: 3+, though they are a bit on the expensive side.
Lastly, you could take a Superheavy Auxiliary detachment if all you require is the Shadowsword.
Just stopping by to say the new aberrant model looks sweet. Looks like new improvised weapons options incoming.
On another note, I have been considering running GSC as an all-infantry skew list. Anyone tried it before? The theory seems sound, especially with 50+ neophytes backed up by an Iconward and Patriarch to make them fearless/6+ FNP, but I’m curious what others’ experiences may have been.
mightymconeshot wrote: What special/heavy weapon pairings do people like on their neophytes?
I am starting to build up my forces now that I finished Harlequins. Looking to do a very hordy infantry type list.
Mine tend to be either completely bare or GL and Mortar. Occasionally I’ll kit a shotgun squad with flamers or put lascannons into a couple if I plan of castling up/am facing a lot of armour
Gremmer wrote: What do you think about the new limitation rumours for brood brothers? My 2 valkyries and 8 Bullgryns are sad...
I read the thread where it was originally posted and I don't think it is genuine. The way the supposed "play tester" speaks is pretty irresponsible. I can't think of anyone who got a great position in the gaming industry, testing for GW, would be so quick and willing to disparage their co-workers as well as prove their credentials by giving out further information about themselves. If that post is real then that person has ended their career in the gaming industry. Also there's this:
From the Warhammer Community FB Page:
"Hey Nick!
Well, that doesn't look like something we've shared on the Warhammer Community so we wouldn't trust in random pictures found on the internet...
We'd also like to point out that those suggested allies are from the previous edition of Warhammer 40,000, when the Genestealer Cults first emerged back into the 41st Milennium and the game was very different."
Sounds like who ever made this fake used the original GSC entry from White Dwarf (?) as their basis. That's my take.
Asmodas wrote:On another note, I have been considering running GSC as an all-infantry skew list. Anyone tried it before? The theory seems sound, especially with 50+ neophytes backed up by an Iconward and Patriarch to make them fearless/6+ FNP, but I’m curious what others’ experiences may have been.
It might be worth revisiting. I know in early 8th it was difficult to pull off since everyone was designing their lists to handle hundreds of conscripts. My main concern would be the relatively low mobility of such a list, though with Return to Shadows back it isn't as big a concern as it used to be.
I imagine one would probably want the first wave comprised of shotgun squads (ambush into position) while the rest are comprised of autoguns/lasguns with special and heavy weaponry (weapon teams in the very back). Could possibly include a few 'stealer units as part of the ambushing elements since they are cheap in power.
Araablane wrote:Im going to play against Raven guard Primaris in 1500 pts game but i have no idea what to expect, can anyone help me make a list?
Raven Guard in general are skewed against shooting lists so their chapter tactic isn't as big a nuisance for GSC since we can ambush up close to shut off their -1 to hit by proximity and it has no effect on melee units. Biggest thing I'd be weary of is ambushing Aggressor squads as they put out enough shots to wipe out a couple units each per turn (they get to shoot twice if they remain still - Raven Guard's stratagem just deploys them up close so they count as stationary first turn). Your best defense against them is to hide whatever heavy hitters you have in transports or ambush and counter punch if they drop them in close (using Mass Hypnosis or a vehicle to deal with their mean overwatch). Pretty much any of our melee units will make mincemeat of the Primaris infantry, though rocksaws are especially effective as each hit kills a model on 2+. Also remember that Marine Chapter Tactics do not apply to their vehicles, so if you have any Russes or similar fire support aim them at any vehicles they might choose to deploy first for maximum efficiency.
mightymconeshot wrote:What special/heavy weapon pairings do people like on their neophytes?
Grenade Launchers are nicely flexible and inexpensive options regardless of main weaponry, so I'd usually start by maxing out on them where possible. Flamers are nice on Shotgun squads since they tend to operate close regardless and they can take full advantage of the assault type. Webbers are sadly a poor choice in the main 40k game currently, but are really strong in Necromunda so if you ever plan on playing that you will probably want at least one (if not two) modeled.
As for heavy weapons, Seismic Cannons are good for anti-infantry squads and pair very well with Grenade Launchers (same weapon profiles and similar flexibility) and Mining Lasers are nice for supplemental anti-armor (better against multi-wound infantry that vehicles admittedly). The Heavy Stubbers are cheap and have the longest range of the Mining Weapons but can be gotten on vehicles so aren't quite as attractive. I haven't had much experience with the Neophyte weapon teams, but I know Mortars are very popular with the Guard and the other weapons all have their uses.
Patriach, Primaris, Purestrains will be in the cult ambush to kill something nasty.
Both Neophytes will go in to the ambush to take a objective or try to kill something while coming from ambush.
Acolytes and Iconward will go to Chimera and Abberants will have Rockgrinder.
So if he gets first turn then may be the transports will protect the units and after that i can charge him.
Been losing a lot lately, would be nice to win something for a change.
What about the whole "Allies of Convenience" thing? As a result of that rule could you field any AM units in your overall force? This sort of thing lines up with the 8th Xenos 2 Index version right?
Caspian89 wrote: What about the whole "Allies of Convenience" thing? As a result of that rule could you field any AM units in your overall force? This sort of thing lines up with the 8th Xenos 2 Index version right?
In 7th anyone could ally with anyone but depending on alliance level there were penalties put in place. Allies of Convenience meant that the two factions involved could be used together without penalty but treated each other as enemy models for the purposes of various rules (such as aura abilities). The 7th edition GSC codex had Tyranids and Astra Miltarum available as "Allies of Convenience" while every other army was rated as "Come the Apocalypse" (heavy penalties to all involved parties). As such, you could take an AM detachment consisting of whatever units desired as an ally if you wanted without penalty, though the Cult Uprising detachment that came with the GSC codex gave very little incentive to do so.
I have not seen the rumors regarding Brood Brothers, so I'm not sure what is being suggested as changing from now.
Araablane wrote: Feels fake.. atleast im hoping it, i want to play GSC with artillery and sometimes with a Shadowsword.
I agree. I've got 2 Basilisks I just primed and this rumour took some wind out of my sails. I read the Reddit thread and I came to the conclusion that it is not authentic. Could be wrong but I'll have 2 painted Basilisks in either case.
What is peoples opinion on Battleforce: Genestealer Cults Insurrection, i have already one painted but im thinking if i should get one before its sold out.
Definetly going to need a second Rockgrinder, Neophyte squad at some point and Primus wouldnt be bad.
I thought I had picked through the 
! Especially when they want to go after tanks and high Toughness (genestealers don't mind as much + advance and charge).
