I think autoguns will always be the safest modelling choice, and the strength of shotguns will depend on the universal rules given in the dex. It's also likely something you won't bother with for minimum size troops, and more of a specialised squad.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think autoguns will always be the safest modelling choice, and the strength of shotguns will depend on the universal rules given in the dex. It's also likely something you won't bother with for minimum size troops, and more of a specialised squad.

Fair point I guess. I'm rather fond of the idea of shotguns, but the autoguns are indeed the safer choice in the end. At least until we get a codex and know what's actually coming for us.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think autoguns will always be the safest modelling choice, and the strength of shotguns will depend on the universal rules given in the dex. It's also likely something you won't bother with for minimum size troops, and more of a specialised squad.

Fair point I guess. I'm rather fond of the idea of shotguns, but the autoguns are indeed the safer choice in the end. At least until we get a codex and know what's actually coming for us.

I think at the very least have a staple of 30 autogun cultists for a battalion and then branch out to as many shotties as you want

I'm not at a stage where I can main GSC though I just use them as a detachment so maybe it's different if you solo GSC

 SHUPPET wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think autoguns will always be the safest modelling choice, and the strength of shotguns will depend on the universal rules given in the dex. It's also likely something you won't bother with for minimum size troops, and more of a specialised squad.

Fair point I guess. I'm rather fond of the idea of shotguns, but the autoguns are indeed the safer choice in the end. At least until we get a codex and know what's actually coming for us.

I think at the very least have a staple of 30 autogun cultists for a battalion and then branch out to as many shotties as you want

I'm not at a stage where I can main GSC though I just use them as a detachment so maybe it's different if you solo GSC

I'm still in the early stages of painting and building. I've only got an Abominant and Iconward done, and have a Rockgrinder next in the queue with 2 boxes of Hybrids (going to make one a unit of two saws the other a unit of two drills) and a box of Neophytes (the non-IG ones) somewhere behind that sitting with the rest of the Tooth and Claw box.

So it's a solid start, but a long way to go too.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think autoguns will always be the safest modelling choice, and the strength of shotguns will depend on the universal rules given in the dex. It's also likely something you won't bother with for minimum size troops, and more of a specialised squad.

Fair point I guess. I'm rather fond of the idea of shotguns, but the autoguns are indeed the safer choice in the end. At least until we get a codex and know what's actually coming for us.

I think at the very least have a staple of 30 autogun cultists for a battalion and then branch out to as many shotties as you want

I'm not at a stage where I can main GSC though I just use them as a detachment so maybe it's different if you solo GSC

I'm still in the early stages of painting and building. I've only got an Abominant and Iconward done, and have a Rockgrinder next in the queue with 2 boxes of Hybrids (going to make one a unit of two saws the other a unit of two drills) and a box of Neophytes (the non-IG ones) somewhere behind that sitting with the rest of the Tooth and Claw box.

So it's a solid start, but a long way to go too.

Nice man! early stages for myself too. I'd love to run a Nid-less GSC army but we'll get there in time, hopefully the dex will support it.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I think autoguns will always be the safest modelling choice, and the strength of shotguns will depend on the universal rules given in the dex. It's also likely something you won't bother with for minimum size troops, and more of a specialised squad.

Fair point I guess. I'm rather fond of the idea of shotguns, but the autoguns are indeed the safer choice in the end. At least until we get a codex and know what's actually coming for us.

I think at the very least have a staple of 30 autogun cultists for a battalion and then branch out to as many shotties as you want

I'm not at a stage where I can main GSC though I just use them as a detachment so maybe it's different if you solo GSC

I'm still in the early stages of painting and building. I've only got an Abominant and Iconward done, and have a Rockgrinder next in the queue with 2 boxes of Hybrids (going to make one a unit of two saws the other a unit of two drills) and a box of Neophytes (the non-IG ones) somewhere behind that sitting with the rest of the Tooth and Claw box.

So it's a solid start, but a long way to go too.

Nice man! early stages for myself too. I'd love to run a Nid-less GSC army but we'll get there in time, hopefully the dex will support it.

Purestrains are the only true Nids I'm looking at running in the near future at least.

I'm building more towards the PDF/GSC uprising aspect, so in the long run I'll likely fall suspect to that sweet siren call of the Guard (though screw Cadian colors, I'm painting them to match the colors of the GSC itself instead).

Yea I have a 20 man shotgun unit but keep in mind I also have 100 neophytes total. I batch painted all the base colors and washes a week ago and took this week off lol. It was a bit of a large bite to take but that is my painting style, I either paint an army in massive chunks or I spend ages on single characters lol.

Shotgun neophytes I built with the skitarii ranger upper body so the entire unit have dusters on. I built it with 18 shotguns and 2 flamers with a pick and banner. I definitely won't make another unit like it any time soon, but that unit hasn't performed poorly for me as of yet and I am currently practicing against my brothers T'au for a tournament mostly. If they do well against massed s5 shooting I know they are solid.

But to back Shuppet, you generally want to stick with autoguns in my experience since you can take advantage of the longer range a lot more often then you can the short range strength of the shotgun. I like my shotgun guys for two very important reasons, 1 . they look friggen boss but 2. they fill the very important need for getting into my opponents back field (or elsewhere) and applying pressure in a very focused way. Sometimes you need to clean sweep an objective, or tie down the enemy and thats when this unit come in handy, I was going to use a unit in this fashion every game anyway so I figured I would arm them a bit more specialized.

I will also say I am playing pure GSC, I own a huge Catachan army and have no interest in mixing in Guard, if I want to play guard I will just play my guard army lol. My brother has a massive Nid army, so for freshness sake I am trying to go as pure as I can. I also like the mining/construction aesthetic the most, so I find my army would clash quite a bit. I built my Chimeras to look more like a retrofit bulldozer or hauler and my scout sentinels were cut down too. I'll have to get a photo of everything when it is further along, to date I have 80 acolytes and 100 neophytes all at a very clean tabletop standard with everything else either base primed or further along. This army can definitely become a horde fast. I have so many acolytes because they were 8 ppm in 7th lol.

Question of the day: Genestealers: 32mm or 25mm for best results? I know that they generally look better on the 32mm (and stand better) but with the original being the wobblier 25mm slotta base I'm curious which people are running more of.

Arguably the 25mm is better for pushing them all into melee range, but the 32mm allows the unit stronger board control and screening.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Question of the day: Genestealers: 32mm or 25mm for best results? I know that they generally look better on the 32mm (and stand better) but with the original being the wobblier 25mm slotta base I'm curious which people are running more of.

Arguably the 25mm is better for pushing them all into melee range, but the 32mm allows the unit stronger board control and screening.

Great question. I think you've identified what both do best yourself.

I choose 25mm because I want to get maximum amount of Stealers into combat, and have maximum control in that aspect. But 32mm has it's own set of benefits and is arguably better for the right player. That's not really an answer I know.



25mm isn't just for the original btw, it's for every single Genestealer release ever except for the guys in DW Overkill, I believe. Even Tooth & Claw went back to 25mm. But it doesn't really make a difference I think since it released in 32mm in one set so you can't really be turned away for going with it. I imagine most people will have 25mm bases for this reason alone, but we can always upgrade them if needed.

Thinking on it some more I guess the other advantage of 32mm is it makes it easier to wrap target units/models to prevent them getting away, and to hit multiple units when charging due to your larger footprint.

I'm considering it mostly for the stability and aesthetics, but I wanted to pick people's brains if there was a major problem with running the 32mm instead.

If anyone complains, ask them to show you in the FAQ where their army was specifically mentioned and they as a player were apologized to and promised better in the future

"...We have also removed the exemption [Tactical Reserves] that Genestealer Cults had in the previous beta version of this rule – rest assured this has been
taken into account for Codex: Genestealer Cults, which is currently in development..."

25mm also makes it a little easier to squeeze in an ambushing unit in a limited space. But since the arms gets in the way the difference is not that big.

I went ahead an cut the tabs on the slot stealers and based them on 32's because they look much better, don't get nearly as tangled up in eachother, and most importantly because it is inevitable that they switch to 32's. It's idiotic to have Acolytes and abbs on 32's and purestrains on 25's but thats just my neuroticism with army aesthetics.

Ultimately I've decided to use Guardsmen as my Autogun Cultists and make Shotgun cultists out of the Neophyte models proper.

This gives me more out of every box and lets me get a more mixed look to my army (which is something I rather like as a whole).

In other news, considering the melee abilites of the Rockgrinder I'm thinking it's perfect for supporting MSU units who want to get into melee (Abberants and Alcolytes namely). I know that means they can't have someone else ride with them, but I am finding more and more that putting too many eggs in one basket seems to end up with the basket getting wrecked and the eggs getting smashed so I want to spread my threats around a bit.

On a different note: special weapons in shotgun squads, are they worth bothering with?

I visited a friend of mine over the weekend. Got four games in against his Orks. We tried out all the leaked rules for the Greenskins, as well as proxying the new vehicles. In the end it was a draw with me winning and losing 2 games respectively.

However, I tried ambushing in 20 Neophytes with 2x Seismic Cannons and 2x GLs, alongside either a Primus or the Iconward. The former provided me with a nice 5 on the ambush table, which translated into 10 dead Boys and 3 dead Bikers. In another game they took the last few wounds off of two of the buggies and killed a bunch of Stormboys.

I am actually quite surprised how well they performed. And with the Iconward (and ambushing into cover) they also survived till the next round so that I could return them to the shadows to strike elsewhere.

Still think the mining weapons should really be assault weapons. Or cheaper. And/Or hopefully we might get something to buff our shooting! Seriously, it felt bad being out-gunned by fu*king Orks! Bad Moons + Dakka Dakka means they generate extra shots on 6s AND re-roll 1s ARMYWIDE.

First whisperings of rumors from our codex! The Warlord Traits seem to have been leaked.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/10/40k-breaking-the-first-genestealer-cult-rumors-arrive.html

#6 is obviously stronger than the others, I'm not sure why that wouldn't be an auto-pick every time.

ajax_xaja wrote:
First whisperings of rumors from our codex! The Warlord Traits seem to have been leaked.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/10/40k-breaking-the-first-genestealer-cult-rumors-arrive.html

#6 is obviously stronger than the others, I'm not sure why that wouldn't be an auto-pick every time.

#6 is great, but we don't know how good the table will be or how else we can manipulate it.

#5 is a fearless+ bubble, also pretty good.
I also think #3 might be alright for a Patriarch or something.

These look good, and yes 6 is great but does anyone else see our "Wall crawler" being our solution to bubble wrap. It's not like "Fly" where it only effects the movement phase it just gives us blanket ignore characters and terrain for movement purposes.

Which gives rise to the question of the 10" high building/2" charge from top to bottom again. We may have the new Smash Capitan.

Focus of Adoration looks good for a blob style army, Wall Creeper definitinely feels like a Patriarch focused option (guess we could call it the Patrician's choice?), Born Survivor isn't bad for any combat focused HQ option and could make the Abominant even harder to kill, Alien Majesty definitely feels like another one that's good for a blob (albiet a more gunline focused one), and Ambush Leader feels like it's made for a Primus to bounce on and off the table escorting units in ambush.

So who else is looking forward/dreading what our 6 psychic powers will be and if our current 3 will stay as is?


Just thinking alien majesty will be great for a Magus and 2-3 blobs of 20 neophytes. Fearless 20 strong blobs with built in deny the witch that are objective secured seems pretty nice to me.

Timeshadow wrote:
So who else is looking forward/dreading what our 6 psychic powers will be and if our current 3 will stay as is?


Just thinking alien majesty will be great for a Magus and 2-3 blobs of 20 neophytes. Fearless 20 strong blobs with built in deny the witch that are objective secured seems pretty nice to me.

I don't see our current three changing to be honest. I do see us getting something offensive as we lack mortal wound output when compared to other armies.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Ultimately I've decided to use Guardsmen as my Autogun Cultists and make Shotgun cultists out of the Neophyte models proper.

This gives me more out of every box and lets me get a more mixed look to my army (which is something I rather like as a whole).

In other news, considering the melee abilites of the Rockgrinder I'm thinking it's perfect for supporting MSU units who want to get into melee (Abberants and Alcolytes namely). I know that means they can't have someone else ride with them, but I am finding more and more that putting too many eggs in one basket seems to end up with the basket getting wrecked and the eggs getting smashed so I want to spread my threats around a bit.

On a different note: special weapons in shotgun squads, are they worth bothering with?

I've been haveing great success with a 20 strong blob of 10 shotguns and 10 lazguns. When they deepstrike in the 10 shotguns are up front and laz in back. This makes it easier to get the shotguns in that 6" sweet spot wile the laz can still double tap with rapid fire. All for only 100pts total :-)

Timeshadow wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Ultimately I've decided to use Guardsmen as my Autogun Cultists and make Shotgun cultists out of the Neophyte models proper.

This gives me more out of every box and lets me get a more mixed look to my army (which is something I rather like as a whole).

In other news, considering the melee abilites of the Rockgrinder I'm thinking it's perfect for supporting MSU units who want to get into melee (Abberants and Alcolytes namely). I know that means they can't have someone else ride with them, but I am finding more and more that putting too many eggs in one basket seems to end up with the basket getting wrecked and the eggs getting smashed so I want to spread my threats around a bit.

On a different note: special weapons in shotgun squads, are they worth bothering with?

I've been haveing great success with a 20 strong blob of 10 shotguns and 10 lazguns. When they deepstrike in the 10 shotguns are up front and laz in back. This makes it easier to get the shotguns in that 6" sweet spot wile the laz can still double tap with rapid fire. All for only 100pts total :-)

That sounds pretty awesome actually. It justifies having some Grenade Launchers in the squad as well since they'd be shooting from further back anyways.

I'd considered it and if I have pts to spare Grenade launchers are a consideration but a squad of 20 dudes ambushing in the opps face with a little primus magic is golden GL or not

Timeshadow wrote:
I'd considered it and if I have pts to spare Grenade launchers are a consideration but a squad of 20 dudes ambushing in the opps face with a little primus magic is golden GL or not

Oh, I don't doubt it, I was just thinking of meshing the two Neophyte squads I've got together to form an ambushing blob, and the IG half of it has 2 GLs mixed in. I plan on doing some more Neophyte squads as I need some rear army support for objectives and the like, but those will be GL/Seismic Cannons in a blob of 10 models.

My big concern is making sure I've got the tools for vehicles and MCs, and I'm torn between mixing in some Lascannons (via Sentinels and LRBT) or running Autocannons and relying on the weight of fire instead.

Me back in August concerning Abominant:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Fueli wrote:I like them. Don't know if there's any kind of utility to be had with pure beatstick hq, but we'll see. At least the model is cool.

If it has a low enough wound threshold to "hide" behind other models it could have a lot of utility, especially if it is swinging at S10+ (dare I dream S14?) with that Sledge Hammer.

Give him a jump pack GW!

GW today:

"Your Warlord can move across models and Terrain as if they are not there."

Thank you based GW

 SHUPPET wrote:
Me back in August concerning Abominant:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Fueli wrote:I like them. Don't know if there's any kind of utility to be had with pure beatstick hq, but we'll see. At least the model is cool.

If it has a low enough wound threshold to "hide" behind other models it could have a lot of utility, especially if it is swinging at S10+ (dare I dream S14?) with that Sledge Hammer.

Give him a jump pack GW!

GW today:

"Your Warlord can move across models and Terrain as if they are not there."

Thank you based GW

10:1 if that's from the playtester documents they'll change it to only work in the Movement phase.

Alright, guys. I've been looking to get into GSC for a long time, and I just sold a Deathwatch army and have some money to blow.

For context, I have a full AM infantry army (enough for a brigade and a little more) and currently very little Tyranid models.

I know the codex isn't out yet, but are there any safe bets? The tooth and claw GSC half is about $70 on eBay, and I'm thinking 2-3 of those is an amazing start.

Any tips/ideas?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Alright, guys. I've been looking to get into GSC for a long time, and I just sold a Deathwatch army and have some money to blow.

For context, I have a full AM infantry army (enough for a brigade and a little more) and currently very little Tyranid models.

I know the codex isn't out yet, but are there any safe bets? The tooth and claw GSC half is about $70 on eBay, and I'm thinking 2-3 of those is an amazing start.

Any tips/ideas?

Tooth and Claw is good investment towards a Brigade right out of the box, and since you have IG you can go pretty ham with Brood Brothers to bring the toys the Cult can't access on it's own. That said, troops and Genestealers are always safe bets since the army is built around them and you'll want them in there anyways.

Personally I'm building a bit of everything as I go, but part of that is just to get more mileage out of the boxes since the Hybrid box only gives you 1 of each mining tool with 5 models but you can currently take more than that.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Alright, guys. I've been looking to get into GSC for a long time, and I just sold a Deathwatch army and have some money to blow.

For context, I have a full AM infantry army (enough for a brigade and a little more) and currently very little Tyranid models.

I know the codex isn't out yet, but are there any safe bets? The tooth and claw GSC half is about $70 on eBay, and I'm thinking 2-3 of those is an amazing start.

Any tips/ideas?

It depends, do you want to play guard with some GSC or are you looking at pure GSC? It makes a huge difference. If your leaning on your guard army then you can get whatever you want as a second detachment very easily.

In my own case I have ~15k of guard and I really didn't want to play it with GSC because why wouldn't I just play IG at that point. But that's just me. So I collected a full army of GSC and honestly it was pretty expensive. Buying acolytes sucks hard since they only come 5 to a kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Alright, guys. I've been looking to get into GSC for a long time, and I just sold a Deathwatch army and have some money to blow.

For context, I have a full AM infantry army (enough for a brigade and a little more) and currently very little Tyranid models.

I know the codex isn't out yet, but are there any safe bets? The tooth and claw GSC half is about $70 on eBay, and I'm thinking 2-3 of those is an amazing start.

Any tips/ideas?

Tooth and Claw is good investment towards a Brigade right out of the box, and since you have IG you can go pretty ham with Brood Brothers to bring the toys the Cult can't access on it's own. That said, troops and Genestealers are always safe bets since the army is built around them and you'll want them in there anyways.

Personally I'm building a bit of everything as I go, but part of that is just to get more mileage out of the boxes since the Hybrid box only gives you 1 of each mining tool with 5 models but you can currently take more than that.

Tooth and Claw is a nice deal on ebay for sure but it isn't anywhere close to a start to a brigade. It's contents give you a vanguard plus an HQ if your building metamorphs which isn't a great idea.

One tooth and claw will get you ~500 points on the table which isn't awful but it's using the units that are higher priced right now keep in mind. It also has zero neos. I am betting 10:1 acolytes drop to ~8 ppm as well. You can always run your guardsmen as neophytes though. I bought 100 neopytes in the end because my IG are all 2nd edition catachans and they really don't fit the cult aesthetic lol.


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The new stratagems look like money if they are true. Sabotage is my favorite. Auto detonating a knight in their lines is a game changer but even blowing a tank near their support characters can have good results. It pairs well with a few tactic. You can use the auto ambush WLT on an abomanant and abberants and go wreck something then detonate it lol. If the abomanant dies just 1cp him back to life. You could also use acolytes with 8 rock saws and the mining strat to double their attacks!

I don't want to get to hyped though, these could be rampant BS.

Also, the WLT that regens a character could make an abomanat almost unkillable lol. The fearless bubble is also awesome since it saves you ~100 points on a banner in place of a patriarch.

I hope we get our book before the new year!

 Red Corsair wrote:

I hope we get our book before the new year!

I'd have hoped so too, but it's looking less and less likely now. :/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/28/christmas-preview-bundles-battleforces-and-boxed-games/

The releases until the end of 2018 look pretty jam packed. They've got 10 Christmas Battleforces to release, Blackstone Fortress, Chapter Approved and more before 2018 is up. The Genestealer Cults codex hasn't been announced yet.

For all previous codexes in the past, they announce them once the previous batch of codexes has hit the shelves - typically the day after. The current "batch", is Space Wolves and Orks. So next weekend, when Orks hit the shelves, GSC will be announced.

In the past there has traditionally been a 50-90 day wait time between the announcement of a codex and its release. That gives us a potential release window from roughly Saturday 22nd of December to Saturday 2nd of February. I expect it will fall somewhere in that window.

I'd have loved to do some 2018 battles with my GSC, but it's looking very certain to me that it won't be happening.

I like the idea of using GSC/Guard as a sort of combination horde. Lots of IG Bodies, lots of GSC bodies, a few key units to delete things, but idk.

I really, really love the Neophyte kit and everything about them, but that's true for all GSC models I suppose.

With Aberrants and Acolytes currently going for $25/5 on eBay, this seems like the best time if any to jump on board, I just can't decide between Neophytes, Acolytes, or Aberrants.

Anyone have Nick Rose' list from So Cal Open? Seems he was making effective use of Abberants. Curious to see what loadout he was using exactly as I plan to build my Tooth and Claw Abberants.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Anyone have Nick Rose' list from So Cal Open? Seems he was making effective use of Abberants. Curious to see what loadout he was using exactly as I plan to build my Tooth and Claw Abberants.

Probably pick and rending claw. They benefit from abomanant exploding sixes over hammers because they have twice the attacks stock.They get the most mileage from nearby buffs and are cheaper. Hammers are OK but very one dimensional and more expensive. The abomanant fills the roll of a hammer unit all his own. He's probably using neos up the wazzoo with abbs as his elite hitting unit. In ITC format GSC is actually pretty strong since they have built in mobility and fearless bodies.

No, it wasn't a giant horde list. It was two big units of Aberrants. A bunch of rippers and Neurothropes, and Kraken Genestealers. There was probably a few units of Neophytes - but small units that I think were running around in Chimeras.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Anyone have Nick Rose' list from So Cal Open? Seems he was making effective use of Abberants. Curious to see what loadout he was using exactly as I plan to build my Tooth and Claw Abberants.

Cheers!

Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Yea I watched the stream, he played fast and loose in areas of that game against Kenny.


The biggest goof was him using the tyranid Overrun strat on his big stealer blob in his first turn despite not killing a unit, which saved his stealers. He claims he would have fought again, but he wasn't in range to pile in because of how the models were removed. Plus he hadn't declared more then the one unit as a target, so he couldn't attack the other unit.

Kenny was a great sport and they just played on but honestly him losing his stealers turn 1 rather then him recharging the next turn and mulching through another 30 or so cultists is massive.

It was still a decent game, but that error definitely changed the outcome IMO. Without the stealers he loses much of his mobile threat. Abberants are just as killy but WAY slower and currently have zero combat stratagems.



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 Cephalobeard wrote:
Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Goliaths aren't that uncommon, they work well with elite units like abbs riding in them, they also tank overwatch and tie things down decently. If you use armor you need multiple tanks, which he did. More models is definitely better though, but you need to paint and move stupid amounts of guys which has it's own issues at a multi round event.

In Nicks list specifically, he needed the tanks to make a wall for his stealers. Basically he is using kraken stealers so he can charge turn 1, fight twice, with buffs. So he makes a preset semi circle wall in front of them. If your not using a bomb of nid stealers I can't see any point in taking the tanks over more guys.


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Man Nick plays cult ambush sketchy. He doesn't place the unit over 9" then move when he gets a 6, he just deploys them 3.1" away from the start. This is a major no no, the way he was doing it he was fitting into some tight spaces he had no way of getting to in order to snipe out kennys characters. It's really hard to ambush between 3 units fitting over 9" from each when they surround you, he got to Ahriman this way.

It's important to mention because that is something you don't want to get wrong on your opponent.

I didn't watch the game in depth because I was busy all weekend, but intend to watch them both this week. It's a shame some of his mistakes were big game changing ones. Everyone keeps getting those Tyranid stratagems wrong - Overrun in particular.

Nick has been really championing Nids though - he played them on Team America at the ETC and did well with that interesting horde list with Zoanthropes. I like that strategy of using the vehicles to block for the Genestealers for that first turn charge.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I watched the stream, he played fast and loose in areas of that game against Kenny.


The biggest goof was him using the tyranid Overrun strat on his big stealer blob in his first turn despite not killing a unit, which saved his stealers. He claims he would have fought again, but he wasn't in range to pile in because of how the models were removed. Plus he hadn't declared more then the one unit as a target, so he couldn't attack the other unit.

Kenny was a great sport and they just played on but honestly him losing his stealers turn 1 rather then him recharging the next turn and mulching through another 30 or so cultists is massive.

It was still a decent game, but that error definitely changed the outcome IMO. Without the stealers he loses much of his mobile threat. Abberants are just as killy but WAY slower and currently have zero combat stratagems.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Goliaths aren't that uncommon, they work well with elite units like abbs riding in them, they also tank overwatch and tie things down decently. If you use armor you need multiple tanks, which he did. More models is definitely better though, but you need to paint and move stupid amounts of guys which has it's own issues at a multi round event.

In Nicks list specifically, he needed the tanks to make a wall for his stealers. Basically he is using kraken stealers so he can charge turn 1, fight twice, with buffs. So he makes a preset semi circle wall in front of them. If your not using a bomb of nid stealers I can't see any point in taking the tanks over more guys.


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Man Nick plays cult ambush sketchy. He doesn't place the unit over 9" then move when he gets a 6, he just deploys them 3.1" away from the start. This is a major no no, the way he was doing it he was fitting into some tight spaces he had no way of getting to in order to snipe out kennys characters. It's really hard to ambush between 3 units fitting over 9" from each when they surround you, he got to Ahriman this way.

It's important to mention because that is something you don't want to get wrong on your opponent.

Red I wouldn’t say it’s sketchy, I think you are missing context or a couple of pieces.

1. You were right about over run and I did misplay it. That is on me, when I was told, I brought it up with Kenny in what he wanted to do. I would of taken whatever was needed. The only thing that we discussed was I could of piled in more to still swing on the same unit and the fight twice. That was the discussion but then couldn’t over run. Kenny's decided it woulda of been better off and we go from there. I don’t know what Incoukd do better then that as I made a mistake there and as soon as I was informed I brought it up with Kenny.

As for the stealers they didn’t mulch through the cultist , the abberants did and killed them all before the stealers could swing. Now they did go into the prince and get wrapped there. So that could of caused the change of the game, which you are right.

2. This one I think needs more context. There is a lot of measuring that is done before hand, and I have to roll my result first otherwise it can be a 1 or a 2 and I have to be on a board edge. We measured all the 9 inch spaces and since he doesn’t have any interactions then move forward because the result was a 6. Which means if I start from the 9 inches I am there. What you saw was me start from inside the building moving towards that. If there was action or I get a 5, usually place and the roll because you have to commit. I can see the concern but there are cases where it’s okay because it speeds it up and there are cases were yes, you should be careful and measure correctly depending on what goes on.

If people are using cult ambush you have to really figure out when to go fast because it can take up a lot of time.as for the list, I wouldn’t say the list I had was good nor should be considered. It was models in what I wanted to play with and haven’t played with before. Have to wait for chapter approve and go from there. I am sure I made mistakes on other places but wouldn’t be intentional.

Respect that response.

Darkwynn wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I watched the stream, he played fast and loose in areas of that game against Kenny.


The biggest goof was him using the tyranid Overrun strat on his big stealer blob in his first turn despite not killing a unit, which saved his stealers. He claims he would have fought again, but he wasn't in range to pile in because of how the models were removed. Plus he hadn't declared more then the one unit as a target, so he couldn't attack the other unit.

Kenny was a great sport and they just played on but honestly him losing his stealers turn 1 rather then him recharging the next turn and mulching through another 30 or so cultists is massive.

It was still a decent game, but that error definitely changed the outcome IMO. Without the stealers he loses much of his mobile threat. Abberants are just as killy but WAY slower and currently have zero combat stratagems.



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 Cephalobeard wrote:
Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Goliaths aren't that uncommon, they work well with elite units like abbs riding in them, they also tank overwatch and tie things down decently. If you use armor you need multiple tanks, which he did. More models is definitely better though, but you need to paint and move stupid amounts of guys which has it's own issues at a multi round event.

In Nicks list specifically, he needed the tanks to make a wall for his stealers. Basically he is using kraken stealers so he can charge turn 1, fight twice, with buffs. So he makes a preset semi circle wall in front of them. If your not using a bomb of nid stealers I can't see any point in taking the tanks over more guys.


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Man Nick plays cult ambush sketchy. He doesn't place the unit over 9" then move when he gets a 6, he just deploys them 3.1" away from the start. This is a major no no, the way he was doing it he was fitting into some tight spaces he had no way of getting to in order to snipe out kennys characters. It's really hard to ambush between 3 units fitting over 9" from each when they surround you, he got to Ahriman this way.

It's important to mention because that is something you don't want to get wrong on your opponent.

Red I wouldn’t say it’s sketchy, I think you are missing context or a couple of pieces.

1. You were right about over run and I did misplay it. That is on me, when I was told, I brought it up with Kenny in what he wanted to do. I would of taken whatever was needed. The only thing that we discussed was I could of piled in more to still swing on the same unit and the fight twice. That was the discussion but then couldn’t over run. Kenny's decided it woulda of been better off and we go from there. I don’t know what Incoukd do better then that as I made a mistake there and as soon as I was informed I brought it up with Kenny.

As for the stealers they didn’t mulch through the cultist , the abberants did and killed them all before the stealers could swing. Now they did go into the prince and get wrapped there. So that could of caused the change of the game, which you are right.

2. This one I think needs more context. There is a lot of measuring that is done before hand, and I have to roll my result first otherwise it can be a 1 or a 2 and I have to be on a board edge. We measured all the 9 inch spaces and since he doesn’t have any interactions then move forward because the result was a 6. Which means if I start from the 9 inches I am there. What you saw was me start from inside the building moving towards that. If there was action or I get a 5, usually place and the roll because you have to commit. I can see the concern but there are cases where it’s okay because it speeds it up and there are cases were yes, you should be careful and measure correctly depending on what goes on.

If people are using cult ambush you have to really figure out when to go fast because it can take up a lot of time.as for the list, I wouldn’t say the list I had was good nor should be considered. It was models in what I wanted to play with and haven’t played with before. Have to wait for chapter approve and go from there. I am sure I made mistakes on other places but wouldn’t be intentional.

1. Good on you for owning the mistake. Much repsect I disagree on your prediction of the events, had you played the strat correct. The fight again wouldn't have been as inpactful as your claiming since he pulled casualties so you were several inches away from the units remnants. You have to pile into the closest model even on fighting again strats, and unless I missed something you hadn't declared the second cultist unit. Even if you had, losing all your stealers in his turn for a handful of cultists is a very bad trade. You decided to play on from what was done though, so I won't condemn you for it or anything silly and dramatic, but it definitely puts an asterisk by the win for me at least. BTW really clever idea using the tank wall and hive fleet stealers to circumvent the ambush nerf.

2. I wasn't as bothered by the unit in the building as much as the 3rd aberrant unit that ambushed. If you look at the replay you can see that between the prince in the center, Ahriman behind, the tzangors and finally the cultists in the building to the left, your never fitting 6 32mm bases where you did if you ambushed in the correct order of operations. Your best bet was on his back line behind the yellow crate, which would have gotten you closer to Ahriman, but not the prince. Not sure it impacted the game much, but as this is a learning thread I felt it necessary to point out that the order really does matter and is easy to forget in the moment when your saving time like you were.

I apologize for saying sketchy, I definitely chose a poor word there and meant sloppy. I definitely think most of the errors or inaccuracy was do to playing on a timed event and trying to be faster. I remember thinking "I" would feel sketchy playing it like that which is probably why I typed it out that way.

As for sloppy on the last part on the 3rd one, I think you are right. At that point of the game we’re trying to go through and Finish the game, I think we were both down to 30 mins left and the game was mostly over already after the big abberants wave came in.


As for number one, I can see the point but that is why I put it in Kenny’s hands in what he wanted to do because we went on so far ahead but i had to bring it up.

Darkwynn, are you liking the Abberants with picks? I am thinking about how I want to build my unit from Tooth and Claw, and whether to pick up another set from ebay.

Darkwynn wrote:
As for sloppy on the last part on the 3rd one, I think you are right. At that point of the game we’re trying to go through and Finish the game, I think we were both down to 30 mins left and the game was mostly over already after the big abberants wave came in.


As for number one, I can see the point but that is why I put it in Kenny’s hands in what he wanted to do because we went on so far ahead but i had to bring it up.

Again, much respect for how you handled it. You clearly made an honest mistake and were trying to do what little you can at that point. Just trying to use the game footage as a learning tool, which btw it wouldn't be worth anything if you weren't doing good things


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 rollawaythestone wrote:
Darkwynn, are you liking the Abberants with picks? I am thinking about how I want to build my unit from Tooth and Claw, and whether to pick up another set from ebay.

I am not Darkwynn, but I own 10 of each type and I find myself wanting the picks more often then the hammers. That doesn't mean hammers are trash, they are just much more niche as a tool. The picks are good vs everything, hammers really only excel for my vs high toughness multiwound targets without invulns. I'll also add the abomanant pretty much does what a hammer unit will do for much less and he synergizes better with picks. He sucks verse big units, but the picks excel there. They get more explodes since it works with the rending claw as well. I find he solos most tanks so him and hammers is usually mucho overkill lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:

I am not Darkwynn, but I own 10 of each type and I find myself wanting the picks more often then the hammers. That doesn't mean hammers are trash, they are just much more niche as a tool. The picks are good vs everything, hammers really only excel for my vs high toughness multiwound targets without invulns.

Which weapon do you prefer on the Hypermorph?

I agree with Corsair on the picks. I only equipped the hyper morph with a hammer and that is it. I can’t see doing more but we really have to wait for the codex.

Picks just do so much work

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

I am not Darkwynn, but I own 10 of each type and I find myself wanting the picks more often then the hammers. That doesn't mean hammers are trash, they are just much more niche as a tool. The picks are good vs everything, hammers really only excel for my vs high toughness multiwound targets without invulns.

Which weapon do you prefer on the Hypermorph?

Stop sign lol. Looks way too cool and is cheaper. Getting double hits helps with unwieldy.


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Darkwynn wrote:
I agree with Corsair on the picks. I only equipped the hyper morph with a hammer and that is it. I can’t see doing more but we really have to wait for the codex.

Picks just do so much work

Yea right now the math says picks, but I am sure the book will entice us with both. That said I take the stop sign where I can because I can't not build killer croc

I do like running one hammer Incase you go into knights or into a character the 3D helps out a lot and ensures it goes through. I do have one stop sign guy as a sweeper which worked out real well.

I think I want to run more aberrant characters at least another one but the list is so bloated on points.

Aberrants just seem so good, but there's this part of me that wants to believe the "leaks" where Acolytes get much, much cheaper.

Would that make them viable? Is there an opinion on that?

I already have 1 Abominant, 4xpicks, 4xhammer, 1 hypermorph with sign but I just checked ebay and damn, you can get aberrants for only $25 and an abominant for $15 ... that seems so cheap to me for those kits! I really would like another box of aberrants so I can mix and match a bit more. Thoughts?

Based on my understanding it seems picking up 2-3 sets of those Aberrants is a no brainer currently for GSC folks.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Based on my understanding it seems picking up 2-3 sets of those Aberrants is a no brainer currently for GSC folks.

Considering it's our only source currently for Abberants and GW failed to release the Deathwatch Abberants in their own kit....I'm picking up at least 2 sets (my first 5 are almost finished being painted, and I want at least 5 more to have enough to make a unit of pick, hammers or 10 with picks and hammers).

And the Hypermorph with the stop sign all the way. The sign is just too good to leave off the table.

If my other army sale goes through I'm likely going to get 2 Abominants and 4 sets of Aberrants, for sure. As Darkwynn suggested, maybe 1-2 Hammers, then the rest as claws with a Hypermorph in each squad. Feels good.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
If my other army sale goes through I'm likely going to get 2 Abominants and 4 sets of Aberrants, for sure. As Darkwynn suggested, maybe 1-2 Hammers, then the rest as claws with a Hypermorph in each squad. Feels good.

Yeah, a mixed squad feels the most flexible for a TAC army.

Abberants and abomanants are currently more efficient then none neophyte choices as of now. Expect that to change when other things get point cuts though. Acolytes should go down to at least 8ppm, that makes them a big consideration over much of the elite slots now when your looking at cutting down tough things.

I am not sure metamorphs will ever be viable unfortunately, since they are effectively none troop acolytes and each one is forced into purchasing an upgrade I don't think they need. So use your boxes on acolytes.

If I were starting from scratch I'd be stocking up on acolytes, neophytes and as far as abberants are concerned I'd probably never get more then 20. To start I'd get 10 and buy 3 abomanants before getting more abberants honestly. I have been finding more and more that this army works best using characters for specific tasks. You can hide them in a swarm of neophytes and they are more durable not only from the character rule but with fanatical devotion. Abbomanats do more work and are harder to kill then hammerants for much less. They let your spread a major threat throughout your lines.

The issue GSC always faces is losing steam mid match. I find the list goes on and remains a threat for much longer when I use abomanants and patriarchs as heavy lifters. A sculking patriarch or two in among 30-40 neophytes will keep most units away which works extremely well in missions especially ITC. It's a PITA to remove large fearless neophytes bricks without exposing things to the counter charge from the characters. At 5ppm and cult ambush you should be able to keep the board covered for a long time. Whenever I take too many abberants I find myself having trouble getting them where they want to be without blowing huge amounts of points in my list and while they are tough, they are not nearly as tough as you would think, massed small arms still wrecks them pretty quickly.

So the TLD advice is A+ on Abbs but don't get too carried away with them unless you already have ~100 troops (currently neos are the only decent take but as stated acolytes will definitely get better) and characters are always useful, try to collect 3 of each type except the Iconward.

I also want to add my latest playtesting, I was mentioning a while back at wanting to test ninja purestrain units or only 5 models. In my last few games they were actually amazing. Their speed and small footprint makes them easy to hid going from terrain to terrain feature while they still pose a massive threat from considerable distances. The table matter though, I will note I play on table with a healthy amount of terrain and we use the ITC ruins ruling, this makes them very strong and you can put them in harms way without worrying too much like you would from a large group. I don't think I will take large purestrain units anytime soon, they are just too much of a liability, but the small hit teams have loads of viability for 75 points. An average move of 12" after advancing is a big deal. I still think they are too much at 15ppm but working with what we have they are a good tool I am finding.


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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
If my other army sale goes through I'm likely going to get 2 Abominants and 4 sets of Aberrants, for sure. As Darkwynn suggested, maybe 1-2 Hammers, then the rest as claws with a Hypermorph in each squad. Feels good.

Yeah, a mixed squad feels the most flexible for a TAC army.

Well, currently picks are always better unfortunately. Whether hitting high toughness, or chaf. The volume of attacks is also better against things with invulns, in other words characters. Each hammer only nets you a single hit, which REALLY hurts the units ability to chew on chaf, something you see everywhere. The improvised weapon I am OK with since it's dirt cheap considering, and you double your hits effectively canceling the unwieldy part, plus he has a tail attack allowing him to pull double duty. I think GW kind of made picks too good now and they should probably drop the cost of the hammer to even, or maybe even the cheaper option since it's so one dimensional. Which very well could happen mind you.

EDIT I should point out hammers do net more damage verse tanks I just find that they are always nearby the abomanant who wants to hit the same thing and picks complement him much better. He is terrible verse infantry lol.

Red Corsair, thank you for the info, I appreciate it. I'm really hoping the Acolyte Hybrids get improved with the codex, just small groups dropping in everywhere from the shadows is what got me into the army. But I'm loving these new aberrant models. I'm still curious about this gunslinger guy we haven't heard anything about yet!

It's great sharing an army with Red Corsair lol, he always has such a strong understanding of the game and writes great explanations of his opinions


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Red Corsair wrote:
I also want to add my latest playtesting, I was mentioning a while back at wanting to test ninja purestrain units or only 5 models. In my last few games they were actually amazing. Their speed and small footprint makes them easy to hid going from terrain to terrain feature while they still pose a massive threat from considerable distances. The table matter though, I will note I play on table with a healthy amount of terrain and we use the ITC ruins ruling, this makes them very strong and you can put them in harms way without worrying too much like you would from a large group. I don't think I will take large purestrain units anytime soon, they are just too much of a liability, but the small hit teams have loads of viability for 75 points. An average move of 12" after advancing is a big deal. I still think they are too much at 15ppm but working with what we have they are a good tool I am finding.

I've actually been doing this with Tyranids too. At least one 5 man unit of Kraken Genestealers, it's easy to keep safe, it's cheaper, even faster usually going 13-14", can advance and charge, is obsec, and can actually push troops off objectives, if it charges a 10 man GEQ squad it can kill them by the time it's your turn again. I'd probably run more but my list doesn't need it, however it's good to have one unit that can. Are you ambushing your 5 mans?

Thanks for the kind words fellas!

Whether or not I CA the ninja stealers really depends on the mission and what terrain is available to me. If the board has a lot of ruins and BLOS pieces I can hide them forward in my deployment then I don't bother CA them. I can always return them to shadows if they end up on an un-needed flank etc. They are so fast, as you mentioned that generally they can be where I would be able to on turn 2 anyway only I am not trusting on an ambush roll. That said, in hammer and anvil I would probably reserve a unit but honestly they scare the
crap out of people just by being near an objective because they are so fast and still hit hard. I find opponents waste more resources then I paid for trying to get rid of them, or they just concede a portion of table to me which I am happy with.

Kraken stealers are amazing, your totally right on that. If I wanted a pair of neuothropes I'd just run them as allies. Currently I am running to many GSC HQ's though, I don't really want for more.

I’ve been trying out a gimmicky fortification list with 3 Plasma Obliterators, and it’s done alright in my last few games. Two full of neophytes, one stuffed full of Kraken genestealers, and Broodlords in 2 of them. Everything else in reserve.

With buildings able to hold objectives and use the cover save stratagem, I can safely turtle the first turn with little damage taken until everything comes in from reserves, at which point the stealers zip out with their huge threat range. I’ve been running 2 squads of abominants, shotgun neophytes, and assorted acolytes but could probably improve it a bit.

I feel like Alcolytes should be our go-to for dealing with elite troops, but I can also understand if they don't quite hold up as well as they should since even the cheapest melee option for them is still 10 points.

Actually, when the codex comes around I have to say I'd like to see more IG stuff slipped in to the FA and Heavy slots (Salamanders and Basalisks mainly) as well as more generic civilian stuff. I know there is some desire for a limo, but I'd like to see some other stuff instead to be honest. Oh, and Rockgrinders go to units of 1-3 that split up.

Red Corsair wrote:I am not sure metamorphs will ever be viable unfortunately, since they are effectively none troop acolytes and each one is forced into purchasing an upgrade I don't think they need. So use your boxes on acolytes.

I think they could be viable if they go back to their 7th edition design as low cost mass-attack specialists. In 7th a Metamorph would throw 5 attacks on the charge (3 base, +1 for multiple melee weapons, +1 for charging) for 9 points. An Acolyte in comparison would get 4 on the charge for 8 points but would generally be hitting on a 4+ while the Metamorph usually needed a 3+ (assuming talon).

Badablack wrote:I’ve been trying out a gimmicky fortification list with 3 Plasma Obliterators, and it’s done alright in my last few games. Two full of neophytes, one stuffed full of Kraken genestealers, and Broodlords in 2 of them. Everything else in reserve.

I wish they would re-release that model. Our store received a single one and it was bought by our local guard fanatic who hasn't had much time to play.

I'd be curious to hear more about how fortifications in general have been serving you. I'm wanting to add a section on fortifications to the primer in the first post but have not had much time to do proper tests as I'm currently responsible for running our shop's Kill Team campaign. I haven't been able to get many full-sized games in as a result...

the model looks super stupid to me, I'd rather just create something better out of one of the other similarly sized terrain pieces

I made all my Plasma Obliterators out of Ferratonic Furnaces with Plasma Regulators, they look better for a bunch of insurgent miners and aren’t a million bucks on eBay.

Honestly for the purpose of just staying alive, Imperial Bastions are probably better. Much lower damage output, but with 2D6 shots a Plasma Obliterator is usually doing more damage to itself than to the enemy. But they plug in a weakness in GSC lists with a 72” gun.

It really needs a points reduction though. And battallion/brigade detachments REALLY need a single fortification added, because taking any buildings really limits your ability to bring allies.

 Badablack wrote:
I made all my Plasma Obliterators out of Ferratonic Furnaces with Plasma Regulators, they look better for a bunch of insurgent miners and aren’t a million bucks on eBay.

Honestly for the purpose of just staying alive, Imperial Bastions are probably better. Much lower damage output, but with 2D6 shots a Plasma Obliterator is usually doing more damage to itself than to the enemy. But they plug in a weakness in GSC lists with a 72” gun.

It really needs a points reduction though. And battallion/brigade detachments REALLY need a single fortification added, because taking any buildings really limits your ability to bring allies.

Pics of this please

They still need to be painted beyond a basecoat, but 3 giant buildings are kind of a low priority. Magnetized in case people throw a fit at the side pipes possibly affecting ranges.

 Badablack wrote:
They still need to be painted beyond a basecoat, but 3 giant buildings are kind of a low priority. Magnetized in case people throw a fit at the side pipes possibly affecting ranges.

Spoiler:

That is very fine work!

Can you recommend any of the FW flyers for the Cult? Is there anything good besides the obvious Vulture?

 Causalis wrote:
Can you recommend any of the FW flyers for the Cult? Is there anything good besides the obvious Vulture?

It's Lord of War, but the Marauder Destroyer is worth looking into.

 Causalis wrote:
Can you recommend any of the FW flyers for the Cult? Is there anything good besides the obvious Vulture?

The Arvus Lighter is cute. Cheap flying transport that can start off table.
If it could transport GSC infantry it would be excellent.

What about the Thunderbolt or the Strike Fighter? Too expensive?

I've also just finished painting my Patriarch, but I hate the Genestealer models. Is he worth taking by himself? I mean he is so expensive...

I hate to say it but Patriarchs are a questionable take even when paired with genestealers. Without them, strategicly I'd say they are a hard pass.

If you're looking for some kind of daemon prince brute, look into tyranid allies.

He's great with a million cultists for fearless

SHUPPET wrote:He's great with a million cultists for fearless

+1 this can't be underestimated.

weaver9 wrote:I hate to say it but Patriarchs are a questionable take even when paired with genestealers. Without them, strategicly I'd say they are a hard pass.

If you're looking for some kind of daemon prince brute, look into tyranid allies.

I disagree whole heartedly. In fact I'd say he performs better when not attached to purestrains. It marries into my previous rant on purestrains being a trap. Well, beside them being a trap in large numbers, so is taking a patriarch to baby sit them. He makes that issue so much worse and will in turn under perform because he will be relegated to buffing the stealer bomb which doesn't need him really, so he will always look poor standing behind them watching. He also adds to that investment that will never payoff. He will work well threatening center field however.

I have been having a ton of success running 2-3 patriarchs. The dude is a blender but he also catches folks off guard, he's infantry so he runs through walls, but he also goes 8+d6 and charges. His psychic powers are all great, plus familiars and unquestioning loyalty make him a PITA to kill. Mine ran through an armiger at my last RTT like a wet bag. He caught me by surprise when my abomanant whiffed but the patriarch stripped all 12 wounds lol. They work well as enforcers. They anchor your lines from moral, cause de-buffs and mortal wounds and bully large table sections. He looks expensive until you realize he is a faster abomanant and a magus rolled into one guy. Those two characters cost roughly the same when added togehter. Nothing in the nid book with the excepotion of broodlords which are the same dude and old one eye do what he does. Any large monster you take from nids will get focus fired down and in fact rewards your opponents AT weapons. GSC works best when you focus on hordes of cheap bodies and hide-able characters so you punish them for taking AT weapons. He's literally a demon prince for cheaper, with better claws, the same speed, can buy ablative wounds that also make his psychic phase more potent and has an army of fearless body guards that can tank wounds for him. All he lacks is fly lol. Even then he is infantry so he gets around most of the setbacks especially now that flying models took a nerf in the charge phase. Nobody thinks demon princes are bad (you didn't say so either), in fact you see lists with 4-6 of them do quite well. It has tempted me to take 3 patriarchs and 3 brood lords actually. Would also unlock cheaper faster genestealers that have obsec and grant more CP's.

I like sticking patriarchs in fortifications then busting him out 12-17 inches. He’s got a huge threat window and gives me more stuff in reserve. The familiars are also a big boost to survivability. It’s not just extra wounds, it’s extra models that can absorb any amount of damage. If someone smacks him with a thunder hammer that’s 3 damage per each little guy.

I have been having a ton of success running 2-3 patriarchs

I'm a fluff player so I'll only ever take one.

How exactly do you play him "with a million cultists"? Do you take 20 Neophytes, stick him in the second row and just advance up the field? Or are 20 not enough? What weapons do you give your meatshields?

I have great success fielding 20 Neos in ambush w/ 2x SCs and 2x GLs. Since we know what Warlord Traits we will get I am thinking about making an Iconward the Warlord (or the Cowboy if he buffs shooting) so that he can choose #5 on the table and pop up with the Neophytes. He adds a bit survivability to them and lets them re-roll morale.

My other Neophytes are 10 dudes in a Truck with 2x GLs and 2x MLs to strip some wounds from vehicles and 10 guys with 2x GLs and a HWT with a Lascannon to sit on an objective all game.

I would at max add another 20 dudes with Shotguns, GLs and Flamers to play bodyguard for a Patriarch. Good idea? Or do I need even MORE Neos to run with him?

Well, there is plenty of fluff justification if you use that imagination! They could be Twins or triplets that share a psychic bond, sort of like being psychic Siamese twins. Or you could just treat the other two like lieutenants. Basically they are brood lords given more strength to help lead the final uprising. Or imagining your cult is extremely large, which would require more then 4 blokes to lead and administrate. Again they simply are using the data sheet, nothing is stopping you from explaining why, who or what the data sheet represents.

I have 100 painted neophytes for reference, if that helps lol. I don't always run them all but at larger scale games I'd always take 60-80 and likely all 100 at 2k. How you split them is all based on your preferred method of engagement. I like 10 man squads with grenade launchers apart from my one 20 man shotgun squad. This gets me triple battalion if I want the command points and the MSU works well for layering a screen or sacrificing a unit here and there toward a plan.

Just run the patriarch in the center of the units, not necessarily in the center of the models of a unit, do it so he spreads the fearless bubble. Think of a bicycle wheel where each spoke is a unit and he is at the center. Obviously the "wheel" doesn't need to be round or symmetrical, it's just a visual aid to give you an idea on how to reach multiple units.

As I said in the other post he is basically a faster abomanant and magus rolled into one, so you can take multiples of either of those to function in the same capacity of enforcer. If you want to stick to established fluff simply take one patriarch and magus but three abomanants. This works fine as well, he [abomanant] is less of a blender and is slower, but he is also roughly half the cost.


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 Badablack wrote:
I like sticking patriarchs in fortifications then busting him out 12-17 inches. He’s got a huge threat window and gives me more stuff in reserve. The familiars are also a big boost to survivability. It’s not just extra wounds, it’s extra models that can absorb any amount of damage. If someone smacks him with a thunder hammer that’s 3 damage per each little guy.

Yup, they [familiars] also eat oathbreaker missiles and the extra 2 attacks a piece is nothing to scoff at either. The only scenario I hate is when I take small arms fire, like say over watch wounds and I end up killing off the familiars. You need to be careful because once the patriarch eats a wound you must allocate all further wounds to him. That's a minor issue though since they are still doing their job, I just prefer soaking big hits with them, I guess I am greedy that way lol.

Red Corsar you can still use the bodyguard rules to pass off a wound to a familiar after you start taking wounds on your patriarch if needed (it's only on a 4+ but beggars can't be choosers :-) ).

The Familiar is part of the Patriarch (or Magus) unit so you don't have to pass a test in order to allocate a wound on him.

I've got a question regarding this little fellow, though: Isn't he a little bit annoying to use alongside the Patriarch, since he have less movement than him but must stay in unit coherency? I've never used it that way for this exact reason, i will have the feeling to sacrifice one of the Patriarch main strength to gain some optional survivability (since the big guy is still a character with less than ten wounds). So if i run him with fast unit, it slows him down, and if in the middle of a bazillion cultists, it's seems a little bit redundant for his point cost: for two of these little guys, I've got nearly five more neophytes.

 Red Corsair wrote:
It marries into my previous rant on purestrains being a trap. Well, beside them being a trap in large numbers...

You had spoken before about taking a Tyranid Battalion with small squads of 'Stealers. I think this is a really interesting idea and intend to try it next time I get a chance. Can you tell us more about it? Do you take two Neurothropes then as the Battalion tax? What do you use them for? Do you find yourself using many/any Tyranid stratagems?

I can imagine deploying them (the 'Stealers) in a spread out fashion all over the board and because of their movement they can bunch up and really push against a tough cluster of units or remain spread out as need be. Fast, threatening and at super discount point price. Do you find 5 is the right number or do you field them in slightly larger counts? I can imagine they are good back-line enforcers to discourage deep-strike shenanigans too.

Lately I have been taking a pair of broodlords and 3 small 5 man stealer units from kraken. It gets me obsec fast stealers at a discount and you can use them for exactly the type of goals you listed. They have a huge threat range as well. With neurothropes it is much cheaper and you get more reliable powers which is also nice. For stratagems you can always move that small stealer unit twice to get into their backfield turn 1 and score a point depending on format etc, or use overkill after mopping up a small camping squad to get beck into a concealed position. If they assassinate a weaker buff character you can use feeder tendrils and gain CP.

Just keep in mind, we are in a weakened state on a competitive level. Without any real way to remove cheap screens and lower quality shooting it will be frustrating against some of the current top armies. But this gives a good opportunity to learn how the army functions and test some neat strategies that will still apply whenever we finally get a book.

Hope this helps.

That is helpful thank-you. I appreciate your contribution to the hive mind.

Where are the fortifications rules this edition. Index Imperial 2?

Yeah all the generic fortifications are in there. Bastion, Plasma Obliterator, Skyshield, Void Shield, Aquila Cannon, all that stuff.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Lately I have been taking a pair of broodlords and 3 small 5 man stealer units from kraken. It gets me obsec fast stealers at a discount and you can use them for exactly the type of goals you listed. They have a huge threat range as well. With neurothropes it is much cheaper and you get more reliable powers which is also nice. For stratagems you can always move that small stealer unit twice to get into their backfield turn 1 and score a point depending on format etc, or use overkill after mopping up a small camping squad to get beck into a concealed position. If they assassinate a weaker buff character you can use feeder tendrils and gain CP.

Just keep in mind, we are in a weakened state on a competitive level. Without any real way to remove cheap screens and lower quality shooting it will be frustrating against some of the current top armies. But this gives a good opportunity to learn how the army functions and test some neat strategies that will still apply whenever we finally get a book.

Hope this helps.

That's awesome. I'm still not sure why the community has written off Broodlords/Patriachs. They are barely more expensive than a Thunder Captain and damn are they jolly.

Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

Also, does anyone know some alternative models for the FW Thunderbolt or Lighting Strike Fighter? The models themselves are nice but I don't want to throw down that kind of cash. Maybe some converted Ork flyer or something?

 Causalis wrote:
Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

Also, does anyone know some alternative models for the FW Thunderbolt or Lighting Strike Fighter? The models themselves are nice but I don't want to throw down that kind of cash. Maybe some converted Ork flyer or something?

I have used necromunda gangers for cultists they look great.

 SHUPPET wrote:

That's awesome. I'm still not sure why the community has written off Broodlords/Patriachs. They are barely more expensive than a Thunder Captain and damn are they jolly.

5+ invuln. They can dish a fair hit but can’t take one. They also can’t rely on a good armor save in case they come across a high volume of attacks.

 Causalis wrote:
Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

I'll put some up later today hopefully when I can take the photos. Might take till tomorrow. I haven't finished painting a squad but I do like how the ones so far turned out.

 Causalis wrote:
Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

I simply swapped a few of the more chaosy heads and painted the icons purple. Worked out quite allright imho.

Here is a pic with my necromunda cultists

.

I'm wonder what folks here do about flyers. It seems to me that we have amazing armour cracking tools on the ground: Abberants, Acolytes w/saws being the two main ones. But at my club there are a lot of flyers these units cannot connect with. I'm looking at 2 Hydras as a possible solution to this problem. I just can't see how a few random Lascannons and Goliaths with Autocannons are going to get the job done.

People have also suggested to just kill their troops and ignore the flyers.

I've heard from other people that they prefer Hellhounds to Hydras because they are more versatile and they auto-hit. I can see that Hellhounds also add to the general strategy of the GSC mixed army because of the forward press they represent. While the Hydras want to sit back like a Basilisk and not be in threat range.

From a financial stand-point I'm leaning toward Hydras because they can double as Wyverns with some magnets and I feel pretty confident I could also convert them into Chimera and possibly Hellhounds. But the Hellhound kit is pretty limited. Also, the Hydra kit comes with two Guard models, one of which is kneeling and that's one more Heavy Weapon Team as long as I get a 60mm base.

Hey guys, just want to talk about Nick Rose getting first place at a 100+ man GT the other weekend, with 1500+ points of GSC.



He had a battalion with

double Magus

3x Neophytes

3x Cult Chimeras

2x squads of 6-7 Aberrants with Power Picks
15x Purestrains


and a SupCom detachment with 2x Abominant, 2x Primus, and an Iconward.


He had 500 pts of Tyranid allies, which was basically just 3x Nuerothropes + a unit of Krak Stealers, and then a couple of Rippers, which is probably the baseline allied detachment for every good GSC list, because the Kraken Stealers just add too much utility to leave at home.





I THINK his general approach was Ambushing at least all 3 elite units and the Abominants, giving him 3 hard hitting units each of them being able to re-roll the result once (CP re-roll) and the ambush strat used on the largest unit of Abominants. I'm guessing a lot of the other stuff was ambushed too.

It's a cool list and similar to what I'm building towards. I really like the Abominants though I'm still unsure on Aberrants, I haven't run the numbers there but they seem like they are a bit pricey for what they do

 SHUPPET wrote:
Hey guys, just want to talk about Nick Rose getting first place at a 100+ man GT the other weekend, with 1500+ points of GSC.



He had a battalion with

double Magus

3x Neophytes

3x Cult Chimeras

2x squads of 6-7 Aberrants with Power Picks
15x Purestrains


and a SupCom detachment with 2x Abominant, 2x Primus, and an Iconward.


He had 500 pts of Tyranid allies, which was basically just 3x Nuerothropes + a unit of Krak Stealers, and then a couple of Rippers, which is probably the baseline allied detachment for every good GSC list, because the Kraken Stealers just add too much utility to leave at home.





I THINK his general approach was Ambushing at least all 3 elite units and the Abominants, giving him 3 hard hitting units each of them being able to re-roll the result once (CP re-roll) and the ambush strat used on the largest unit of Abominants. I'm guessing a lot of the other stuff was ambushed too.

It's a cool list and similar to what I'm building towards. I really like the Abominants though I'm still unsure on Aberrants, I haven't run the numbers there but they seem like they are a bit pricey for what they do

I feel like when using aberrants I need a primus to give the hit buff and the sure fire ambush. And I want to have the abominant with them as well for exploding 6s. But we need to choose one for the ambush and that's the primus...at least until we get our new warlord traits just imagine being able to cult ambush the primus with a big aberrant unit and then have a wl abominant choose result on ambush to play right next to them. That would be great. I'm so looking forward to our codex....

The Abominant doesn't need a good ambush roll, even if he just stands there he still provides the Abominant buff, potentially the Psyker debuff bubble, but most of all is unlikely to get blasted off the table because of character rule if you bring enough in with him.

 SHUPPET wrote:
The Abominant doesn't need a good ambush roll, even if he just stands there he still provides the Abominant buff, potentially the Psyker debuff bubble, but most of all is unlikely to get blasted off the table because of character rule if you bring enough in with him.

I guess but considering the premium we pay for cult ambush I like to as close to possible guarantee assaults on ambush if that's what I'm looking for. Yes he is still useful but he is "most" useful smashing faces...off knights.

You just can't buff the chances for everything. Abominant isn't overpriced at all. Fit up a Captain with ThunderhThunderhammer and compare.

There is some discussion currently on a French rumor page that GSC codex will be up for on preorder 15 Jan. Not sure how reliable this info is, but it’s out there.

caladancid wrote:
There is some discussion currently on a French rumor page that GSC codex will be up for on preorder 15 Jan. Not sure how reliable this info is, but it’s out there.

thats about what i would have estimated it at, mid Jan, so it might just be an educated guess, or might accurate and be educated guessing will get it right

Has GW released an faq letting hybrid acolytes keep their knife/claws if they take demo charges? 10 points seems like a high price to pay for a single use grenade if it also takes away their close-combat capabilities.

Played a couple of games against the new Orks, using our rumored stratagems and the leaked Warlord Traits. Here's what I learned:

1. Small, 5-guys Acolyte squads are better than a big 10-guy blob. The latter will demolish anything it touches but promptly die afterwards. A small squad is still very killy, especially with the "Industrial Brutality" stratagem. They too will die the next turn but it won't be such a big loss.

2. The Avenger Strike Fighter is a nice allied vehicle. It is a good tank-hunter and can give some anti-horde firesupport as well.

3. I feel like everything (aside from the Leman Russ maybe) we have is just too squishy. Both Goliath variants can be destroyed quite easily. A big Neophyte blob with max special and heavy weapons just gets shot to pieces in one turn. I feel like they are only useful as screens, objective campers and maybe if you put ten guys in a Truck they will survive a round longer. The Acolytes can dish out damage but they too die instantly after that. Same for the Metamorphs, same for the Abberants (unless you play them in big squads).

4. The Patriarch isn't really worth his points. I tried what we discussed here and ran him up the board with 20 Shotgun Neophytes. He did blender a Truck or maybe 6 boys but after that even a Nob with a Power Claw can just bash his head in. A Warboss on Bike is cheaper, faster, more durable and can smash face almost as well.

5. I also find it difficult to keep the characters I ambush in with my units alive. My Primus(es) acompany my Acolytes, they kill a unit and then just get shot off the board. The Neophyte screen around my Magus also dies to a stiff breeze and hiding behind a tank is also hard with all the advancing and still-charging Warbikers.

So I am looking at some Tyranid allies to give me some anvil units that will actually survive more than one turn. I am thinking about Old One-Eye and three Carnifexes to support my lines or stomp up the board to break the enemy lines. Other ideas?

It seems like this is a very difficult army to play that rewards lucky rolls and punishes poor roles. We have to hit hard enough off the bat to cripple the crack-back but that is very, very hard without the Turn 1 Ambush.

I played against Dark Angels on the weekend and they quickly blew up all forward pushing units like Rockgrinders and Power Lifters. I went 2nd and so by the time I got to turn 2 and started Ambushing most of my army was gone, had done basically nothing and I was left with a single turn to pray for good Ambush rolls across multiple units. I only got one use of the Chapter approved stratagem and one re-roll in that crucial sequence of Ambushes. Loosing the turn 1 Ambush really hurts and now I have a better understanding of why: because I can't spread out the stratagem use on multiple Primuses over multiple turns while the opponent gets free reign with their whole army.

I had the same problem as you with my Abominant getting hosed even with a 20 man blob trying to take his wounds for him.

Having access to the aura de-buff stratagem would have been great for my Stealers against Azreal's 4++ buff to infantry. That really slowed them down.

My thought is to create an AM Tank Gunline with many cheaper tanks like Basilisks, Hydras, Wyverns and even Sentinels to draw the enemy closer so that I have more room for Ambushes later in the game. Two flanks of concentrated tanks with cheap Guard screening units should spread the enemy out and hopefully keep enough on the table while my Ambushers take a slow scalpel approach in coming on-board. I'd like to avoid putting too many points into Leman Russes when I can get more targets and more guns with with the T6 and T7 vehicles. Those Russes are just going to get degraded and only be hitting on 5s....basically dead.

Yes, exactly. If we go second it is very, very hard to win. Everything that is on the board doesn't do much damage and by the time our ambushers actually arrive most of our army is dead already and the ambushers themselves will also just die after killing a unit (IF they get a good result and make it into melee that is).

An AM Tank Gunline is probably effective but too boring for me. If I wanted to play that I would have played Guard from the beginning.

Fair enough. I'm had a 'Nid army in the past and I like to paint weathering and rust....so Tanks for me are an aesthetic choice. I would also like to double it up as a Tallarn force in future.

My plan is to play GSC as essentially a supplement to my typical guardsman tank force. Lots of LRs and 90 or so guardsman to bubblewrap with maybe one third of my points in GSC for second or third turn ambushes and back-caps.

The Vigilus Weekender is coming up. Hopefully they'll announce our codex...

On another note, I hope they improve the Iconward a bit. I really like the model but that 6+++ is not doing anything at all and re-rolling moral is also not good since our troops die in droves. So they'll most likely be running anyway.

 Causalis wrote:
The Vigilus Weekender is coming up. Hopefully they'll announce our codex...

On another note, I hope they improve the Iconward a bit. I really like the model but that 6+++ is not doing anything at all and re-rolling moral is also not good since our troops die in droves. So they'll most likely be running anyway.

The basic Iconward is very underwhelming, but that +1 relic is pure magic. S5 ‘Stealers are a whole new level of killy.

I don't run Stealers. Don't like the models. But yeah that +1 S is nice. Although I hope we will get some better relics in the codex. I rather take a Primus to ambush my Acolytes. The mining weapons profit more from +1 to hit than +1 S.

What do we think of the bikes? They look interesting but I am not sure how good a single sniper ( or even a squad) would be on a unit that is probably best moving. However a cc screener squad or 2 to cover genestealera and your vehicles sounds like a blast.

with +1S and +1 WS bubbles they will likely be WS 3+ S4 T4 2A speedsters so they could have some use

the options of bikes is always good, even overpriced Bikes see play in minimum size units for board control. Also they will probably have a special weapon available on the quad


also they look cool

They do look very, very cool. However, from what we can see on the models they don't seem to have any real damage output. The models are wielding an axe (Neophytes are riding the bikes so they are S3, unless the axe gives them +1S they won't deal any damage in melee), a shotgun, which at least synergieses somewhat with their fast movement speed and they have these pouches on the back that look like they could have Demo Charges in them. That would be nice.

It's also a bit sad to see that there are no weapons on the bikes themselves. That would literally make them the only bikers in the game that don't have shooty stuff on their bike.

So Neophytes on bikes would be WS/BS 4+ S3 T4 2W 4+(?) 1A. That's not a good statline for a presumably small unit. They'll die before they ever reach their target and unless they have a better stats than the Neophytes on foot, they also won't be dealing any damage.

So these guys will probably be quite cheap objective grabbers. But unless they have some sweet special rules I sadly don't see them making a real impact.

Well they might still have access to cult ambush which would be something. Plus what happens when you put a 3 armed master warrior on a bike? What if you can take the buggies in squads of bikes giving fast firepower. Lots of options. Regardless even if the rules suck(which I very strongly doubt) they are super cool and so many people will be getting them just to make roughriders out of they will be sold out for the next two years.

I can’t see the bikes being worth it in any regard. They will be over costed and it’s not something the army needs. If we need quick objective grabbers go get rippers unless these guys are cheaper than 33 points.

Have to see the rules for the other characters but remember ambush is changing so the whole army will change most likely. We can’t get a good idea till more comes out.

Plus what happens when you put a 3 armed master warrior on a bike?

I'm not sure what you are referring to. As far as we know there aren't any 3 armed (I assume you mean Acolytes/Metamorphs?) Bikers. Would be awesome if we could put a Primus on bike though!

What if you can take the buggies in squads of bikes giving fast firepower

Yes the quad will probably be available as the heavy weapon platfrom for a bike squad. It's nice to have but honestly... a single Mining Laser shot that will likely hit on a 4+ (5+ if the thing moved, unless it gets a rule that lets it ignore the penalty) is nothing to write home about.

It would be nice if the bikes could take special weapons. Giving them flamers (lets assume they can take 2 special weapons) and the Quad a heavy flamer (there's a picture where it is build with a HF so it's confirmed that it can take this) would be a nice unit to clear some screens and deter charges.

I'm honestly a little hopeful for the bikes, depending on cost. They could offer a good little backfield/screen disrupting unit for GSC, so allow Aberrants and others to break through and get where they wanna go.

Let's assume Cult Ambush is changing in some regard, and won't be working as well turn 1, having something that can move up and take out a squad of Scouts, for example, could prove helpful.

I'm mostly agreeing and basing this off the assumption Causalis lays out, where they can take flamers. Decent amount of dakka.

Edit:

Let's just compare them to scout bikes. They're about 75p for 3 of them, and those are T5, 4+, Twin Bolters, Bolt Pistol, Shotgun, and 2 Melee attacks each with Chapter tactics.

If we assume these bikes have only Shotguns and/or a melee weapon, and potentially demo charges, I can't see them costing much more than 10-12ppm, and maybe 25-35 for the quad if it can take a Heavy Flamer. They could easily be a great addition as a 3 of MSU for a Brigade, over sentinels.

I really hope we get at least ONE unit that can tank some damage. As of right now our codex exists almost exclusively of "Suicide Teams" that come in from ambush etc. kill or heavily damage a target and then promptly get just obliterated the next turn.

Don't get me wrong, the new bikes, the tablet guy and the Gunslinger are all phenomenal models but none of them look like they bring any survivability to the table. I've actually ordered 4 Carnifexes to play in a spearhead with OOE, just to have some durability on the table.

In the seminar the GW guys stated that they want GSC to be good without allies. So I am very interested to see how they might adress this weekness of ours.

Also, I am really excited that we will (very likely) be getting "Chapter Tactics" for the different Cults. That alone could be HUGE. Dammit GW, just release that Codex already!

 Causalis wrote:
I really hope we get at least ONE unit that can tank some damage. As of right now our codex exists almost exclusively of "Suicide Teams" that come in from ambush etc. kill or heavily damage a target and then promptly get just obliterated the next turn.

Don't get me wrong, the new bikes, the tablet guy and the Gunslinger are all phenomenal models but none of them look like they bring any survivability to the table. I've actually ordered 4 Carnifexes to play in a spearhead with OOE, just to have some durability on the table.

In the seminar the GW guys stated that they want GSC to be good without allies. So I am very interested to see how they might adress this weekness of ours.

Also, I am really excited that we will (very likely) be getting "Chapter Tactics" for the different Cults. That alone could be HUGE. Dammit GW, just release that Codex already!

Wait, Gunslinger? What did I miss?

This nerd.

Was shown a few months ago, we havent heard anything since.

Much appreciated.

I added a brief mention of the new units to the original post under an "Upcoming" heading. Hopefully we will get some previews relatively soon that will allow for information to be fleshed out.

My initial thoughts:

Nexos: Might be our rumored "mini Primus" given the description they put with its unveiling. I'm hoping his ambush manipulation will work while he is on the table rather than needing to ambush alongside squads, since it doesn't appear he has much in the way of weaponry (Auto Pistol?) but even still it could help mitigate some of the reliance on multiple Primus for ambush delivery. The Primus should still be in a good spot due to Meticulous Uprising.

Neophyte Bikers: I feel as if GW might have been reading my posts...

 Strat_N8 wrote:

2. Biker Hybrids - Either Acolytes or Neophytes mounted on civilian motor bikes to provide a non-Sentinel Fast Attack option while keeping with the repurposed aspect of the army.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
For the GSC:
Also Acolyte and Neophytes on civilian bikes would be neat as a fast ground unit, with Neophytes perhaps with attack-bike style sidecars carrying a Heavy Stubber or Flamer while Acolyte bikers get access to Demolition Charges.

Anyway, I'm quite excited to see what these beauties can do. At first glance it looks like the regular bikers get a choice between shotguns or stub-guns for their default weapon and blasting charges. I've read in a handful of places that the lady with the sniper rifle is a character, which might be very interesting. The mobility of a bike paired with character shooting protection and the ability to snipe could be quite a potent combination. As for the regular bikers, I think their utility will depend on how expensive they are and how large the squad can get. If they mirror most bikers, I'd expect 3-10 but we might see more than that. They should make for nice ambush support like Scout Sentinels and as an added tool for harrying enemy artillery. I'm very curious to see how the ATV works. I suspect it will be a clone of the Space Marine Attack Bike but with mining weaponry (probably looking at T4 with 2 wounds). If they can be run as squadrons of their own they might be nifty as a quick-moving anti-armor team that can lurk among other mechanized units or as chaff removal.

When the book goes to pre-order I will ready a new thread for implementation.

 Causalis wrote:
I really hope we get at least ONE unit that can tank some damage. As of right now our codex exists almost exclusively of "Suicide Teams" that come in from ambush etc. kill or heavily damage a target and then promptly get just obliterated the next turn.

From my experience that's sorta the role for Goliath vehicles at the moment (more so the Rockgrinder than the stock Truck since it wants to get up close like most of the infantry). They don't like mass mid-strength guns though which is an issue for the army across the board.

The army as a whole since 7th has been built on the idea of offense being the best defense, so I don't expect to see anything especially tanky (in the vein of Imperial Knights or similar) added. That said, I'd love a mining dozer converted into a super-heavy battle fortress...

Strat I think you're right and I'll be trying the bikes as another element in a cheap, saturated horde-like, mechanized deployment. I've got a unit of 3x Sentinel Powerlifters, 3x Cyclops Demolition Vehciles (made from Kataphron Breacher bases), 2 Rockgrinders (w/Saw Acolytes) and intend to get a few squads of the bikes. That leaves 2 Basilisks, 2 HVY Weapon Squads w/Mortars, and 2 Sniper Command Squads with a Company Commander in the backfield with 3 screening units. That's my intended 1000 point(ish) anchor while the rest of the army is in ambush. I like the idea of more squishier targets than I do a few tough ones. If any of those advancing units get into range they will do damage and pave the way for an opening for the rest of the army.

From my experience that's sorta the role for Goliath vehicles at the moment (more so the Rockgrinder than the stock Truck since it wants to get up close like most of the infantry)

I don't see what would qualify those to be an anvil unit in any way. They are neither threatening enough that the opponent has to shoot them not are they cheap enough to be taken in sufficient numbers. They are light vehicles that can't take punishment very well.

I am often tempted to compare GSC to my Dark Eldar. They too have squishy T3 models and light vehicles. But at least I can take Grotesques with a 4++ and a 5+ FNP. That's a decent anvil unit. And I just wish the Cult had something similar that doesn't just keel over when 10 Marines open up with bolters. Like some sort of especially beefy Abberants or maybe something akin to a GK Dreadknight that looks like a massive exoskeleton designed for mining work (a bit like the Power Lifters) etc.

Of course I am aware that GSC are a horde army, both in fluff and in design. But having something substantial would me much appreciated.

I hope they double down on the horde aspect and give us a Tide of Traitors like stratagem, along with points reductions in the Troops/Transport department. The rumoured strat where we get a combo Tide + Return to Shadows would be amazing. Sure...kill my guys, there are more and more and more. Maybe it's good to think of GSC as assault Guard. Attrition, layers of redundancy and weight of dice.

I think this is a tough army to play that current punishes us both for small mistakes AND on poor dice rolls at the wrong time. The best we can hope for is that the codex reduces the randomness to a degree so our decisions can be effective on tactical merit, rather than a bottleneck of pivotal dice rolls. If you want tough units you can dip into Tyranids or Guard.

I'm hoping that we'll also see a lot of de-buff capability to double down on our effective 'offense is the best defense' strategy. Shutting down a key aura could go a long way against certain deathstar formations.

I just hope they give brood brothers guardsmen/vehicles some cool regimental abilities and orders.

They could really emphasize the saboteur nature of genestealers. If anyone else would get the Vect stratagem, it would be the cult. Make their defenses revolve around turning off crucial abilities rather than any inherent toughness. A squad of marines is gonna pop a nasty shooting stratagem, reroll all misses, and tear up a squad of acolytes? Turn off the stratagem and the aura, and they’ll weather the damage much better without the need for increased toughness or saves which would be at odds with their rag-tag nature.

Forces like the Vietcong didn’t win battles through their superior firepower or armor, they hindered and harried while ignoring their own losses to eventually make the battle infeasible to continue despite their enemy having a huge military advantage.

The rumour in the Vigilus thread was that the sniper on a bike was a special character, but no mention of what her rules were. There are also more units to come...

Not sure why people are complaining about the lack of anvil units when we have leman russes. Yes they aren’t stellar but they get the job done. Once knights (hopefully) get their balance pass in CA the meta should be less skewed towards killing T8 and the russ should become better

CA rumors are indicating normal Knights aren't being adjusted at all. just the Dominus ones.

You also explained in your own post why people don't want to use Russes; they're not good.

C4790M wrote:
Not sure why people are complaining about the lack of anvil units when we have leman russes. Yes they aren’t stellar but they get the job done. Once knights (hopefully) get their balance pass in CA the meta should be less skewed towards killing T8 and the russ should become better

On a point for point basis the best anvil unit is the Artemia pattern hellhound. 81 points for a T7 W11 A3+ Chimera chassis. 690 for a 3 commissar 3 Artemia 3 HWS mortar brigade. Infantry squads are also technically anvil units at 4 points per model.

Guard ones are decent though, I think we can ally in decent Russes for at least a big enough threat to draw fire. Thinking out loud though

For a fruitful discussion we should first agree on what qualifies an anvil unit as such.

The LR for me isn't an anvil unit since its only "tanking quality" is being T8.

Dark Eldar Grotesques on the other hand are an anvil unit because they have a lot of damage mitigation in form of a 4++ and a FNP, paired with T5 which makes them good against most anti-infantry weapons.

The Russ also doesn't help to protect our units from other melee threats. Yes, it draws anti tank fire (somewhat) away from our Goliaths.

My reasoning for allying in 3 Carnifexes with OOE is that 1. they can absorb melee charges 2. they still draw anti tank fire 3. they have damage mitigation since I can give them a -1 to-hit and 4. they are somewhat cheap.

Another problem is that our army wants to be really close to our enemy (for melee and since most of our shooty weapons want to be in 12" for RFR or even closer like Shotguns) but we aren't really that fast. Our melee units come in via ambush which means we have to wait for Turn 2 and also have to hope for good rolls - otherwise they might fail their charge and will just be wiped.

Compare this to Orks. Also a horde army (that's at least one viable playstyle). Also need to get close or into melee. But now they are very, very fast. Speedfreek units can easily manage a T1 charge.

If the codex gives us the tools to be right up in the enemy's grill on Turn 1 then yes, I think we don't neccessarily need anvil units.

Today’s Tales from Vilgus is about our mysterious gunslinger Primus. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/30/the-three-armed-gunfightergw-homepage-post-3/

1. Sounds like he will indeed be a unique named character.
2. He is armed with 3 heavy autostub pistols. Not sure if these have been used anywhere else but I assume he’ll have S4 since they are compared to a heavy Stubber in the story.

 Causalis wrote:

I don't see what would qualify those to be an anvil unit in any way. They are neither threatening enough that the opponent has to shoot them not are they cheap enough to be taken in sufficient numbers. They are light vehicles that can't take punishment very well.

A typical Carnifex is going to be running close to the cost of a Rockgrinder (cheapest grinder is 13 points more than a barebones dakkafex with Spore Cysts), so it isn't too far off a comparison. Both have T7, Grinders trade a 3+ for 2 more wounds, +2'' to their movement, and always on 6+ FNP.

I tend to run fairly heavy on trucks and grinders, so usually the opponent only has vehicles as an option to shoot at until turn 2 when ambushers come in. By that point the vehicles and their cargo are up in their grill and threatening assault (grinders) or else have delivered their cargo (trucks). A lot of the perceived threat depends on what exactly the vehicles are carrying.

Hopefully he can target Characters too with aim like that!

Played a 2K points game against Tyranids today.

Tried to make some Shotgun + Flamer Neophytes work again. Put them and a Magus in a Chimera with 2 HF. Lo and behold, the squad did something for once! Very effective combo at clearing screens. The Magus can buff them to S4 so they can actually do a bit HTH. Between their two flamers, 18 S4 shotgun shots (I took 11 Neophytes, 2 with flamers and the rest with shotguns) and the Chimera adding two heavy flamers to the mix they shredded 15 Genestealers and 5 Warriors (not in the same turn of course).
They are also a nice counter-punch unit that we can park in the backfield against other melee armies. And once their units come storming in the Neophytes can disembark and roast stuff alongside their ride.

In the end I won 15-11. All of my infantry units were either in reserve or in a transport. But the game still just showed me again that the Goliaths are not tanky units. He only had a single Exocrine and it still deleted my Truck in one go. If our transports get a good pricecut in the codex then yes, we might be able to spam them enough so that the enemy can't just delete them all in one or two turns. But right now both Goliath variants are just too expensive.

Also the Rockgrinder has THE worst "deathroller"-esque weapon in the game. The Bonebreaker has more attacks and hits on 2s. The Fleshmower from the Plague Drone is also better at hitting and a plague weapon if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully the codex will buff the Grinder a bit. Give it WS 4+ and +1 to-hit when it charged. Maybe some way to deal mortal wounds (stratagem or something). It should mow through a horde of Cultists without even slowing down, not kill two or three and then stand there uselessly.

Well I think if you're just putting them in Chimeras and pushing them up the board you're going to find them to be bad almost
everytime. That seems like a definite case of "playing the unit wrong" rather than any weakness with the unit imo.

Ok, so how would you suggest to play that unit?

Like was said, Ambushing in with a Primus and Magus support for a potential Might or Hypnosis if needed. Throwing them into what they can do a lot of damage to and leaving the surviving bodies to tie something up in your opponent's shooting phase.

To me that seems a bit of an odd choice. I would rather use that Primus for an Acolyte squad - and even when they are ambushing in, that squad probably wants a 6 to get close enough to use the S4 of their shotguns.

I agree though. Just charging them forward often gets them killed before they reach their target. Thus I will try to play them more defensively. Hide them in their Chimera and use them to protect my deployment zone against deepstrikers or incoming melee units.

Edit: When we get the codex I could potentially see a big unit with Shotguns, Flamers and SCs ambushing in with a Magus (with the WT that lets him choose the ambush result). Just choose a 6, position the unit close to their target and buff them with Might from beyond. They should shred infantry and screens quite well.

I hope we get a character or something that can buff our shooting units with re-roll 1s or smth so that ambushing in Neophytes becomes a more valid alternative to just ambushing in Acolytes/Aberrants.

Having the icons work for melee and ranged attacks would help a lot. As is, they kinda suck for neophyte squads.

Guardsmen without the Orders system is a big hindrance though. That’s what lets them actually hurt things with their punt weapons. As is, autoguns, heavy stubbers and seismic cannons are just a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing.

Agreed. I also think Seismic Cannons should be assault weapons. They want to be close to their target to use the stronger profile but they punish our units for moving, which is very at odds with what the weapon wants to do.

Heavy stubbers should just be assault if mounted on vehicles and -1 AP (across all armies that have access to them).

 Causalis wrote:
To me that seems a bit of an odd choice. I would rather use that Primus for an Acolyte squad - and even when they are ambushing in, that squad probably wants a 6 to get close enough to use the S4 of their shotguns.

I agree though. Just charging them forward often gets them killed before they reach their target. Thus I will try to play them more defensively. Hide them in their Chimera and use them to protect my deployment zone against deepstrikers or incoming melee units.

Edit: When we get the codex I could potentially see a big unit with Shotguns, Flamers and SCs ambushing in with a Magus (with the WT that lets him choose the ambush result). Just choose a 6, position the unit close to their target and buff them with Might from beyond. They should shred infantry and screens quite well.

I hope we get a character or something that can buff our shooting units with re-roll 1s or smth so that ambushing in Neophytes becomes a more valid alternative to just ambushing in Acolytes/Aberrants.

if it seems weird then just don't run shotgun Neophytes. If you see what Red Corsair was saying about them, their strength is thathat a full unit of Purestrains is overkill a lot of the time, where a unit of Neophytes with a Primus buff, Icon and might often hits hard enough to do the job except for a fraction of the price, and because they are getting the Primus + stratagem re-roll it also means they can use Shotguns to get a double tap at the start in S4 range. Just skipping all that was said about using them to good effect, and throwing a full unit of shotgun Neophytes to charge up the board isn't going to do any of that and isn't likely to be a very successful strategy. Similar story to when we were talking about the strengths of the Patriarch and you said that it wasn't very good, but then I noted that you weren't playing it in the way we had said was strong. How you use a unit is just as important as how you equip it, the two need to work in harmony.

So in order to make them work I should ambush them with a Primus but also buff them with the Magus or Iconward. How do you go about doing this? Ambush those characters too and then congaline the Neophytes to be near the Iconward?

And I did try running the Patriarch as described here. With a bunch of Neophytes around him as a meatshield. Didn't do much apart from the screen dieing. He is just too expensive in my eyes for what he does.

I also don't quite understand why you are so against sticking them in a Chimera etc. It protects them, adds firepower and is fast enough to deliver them where they want to go by turn 2. Yet I think with that setup they might be better at protecting my deployment zone.

Next game I'll try both. Ambushing in a squad with a Primus (and trying to position my Magus so that he can buff them) and the Chimera squad will fortify my backfield.

Would you advice ambushing in 20 Neophytes or just 10 dudes? I appreciate your insights.

 Causalis wrote:
So in order to make them work I should ambush them with a Primus but also buff them with the Magus or Iconward. How do you go about doing this? Ambush those characters too and then congaline the Neophytes to be near the Iconward?

And I did try running the Patriarch as described here. With a bunch of Neophytes around him as a meatshield. Didn't do much apart from the screen dieing. He is just too expensive in my eyes for what he does.

I also don't quite understand why you are so against sticking them in a Chimera etc. It protects them, adds firepower and is fast enough to deliver them where they want to go by turn 2. Yet I think with that setup they might be better at protecting my deployment zone.

Next game I'll try both. Ambushing in a squad with a Primus (and trying to position my Magus so that he can buff them) and the Chimera squad will fortify my backfield.

Would you advice ambushing in 20 Neophytes or just 10 dudes? I appreciate your insights.

Neophytes with a Primus. Just ambush the magus solo, he doesn't need a particulary good roll to make it into cast range, and even with bad luck you can use a CP re-roll there.

Shotty's are basically a 6" weapon to see any advantage for them, this is why Red Corsair was saying to basically take them simply because you are using them with the intention of getting a near-guaranteed 9" deploy into free move, into assault, from the Stratagem + Primus deployment. You're the one saying they have been bad every game for you, I'm pointing out that nobody said they would be good in Chimera's. If you think they are good in Chimera's then do so, you were the one saying that they sucked for you? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

If ambushing them with a Primus and Magus support, take a full 19 to 20 man unit, with a banner.

If you’re looking to add some serious muscle to your Genestealer Cults, the Anointed Throng will help you do just that. This Specialist Detachment unlocks a number of useful tricks, including a Warlord Trait that adds 1 to charge rolls for nearby Anointed Throng units, and the Blessed Sledgehammer relic that improves your Abominant’s weapon to a tank-busting AP of -4. If you’re looking to take on a particularly powerful foe, why not charge them with an Aberrant unit and activate Devotion Till Death – even if they die, you may find yourself able to take out a choice target for the loss of a much cheaper unit!

Genestealer Cults players will also have access to the Deliverance Broodsurge, representing flotillas of Goliath Trucks brimming with Hybrids.

From Warhammer Community today.

That was all I needed to buy 15 Aberrants. :^)

"pile in and fight" is interesting wording. RAW you get to pile in, then fight so pile in again, etc. In practice makes absolutely no difference though, there's no tricks to be had there so pointless anyway. But interesting wording

Oh it absolutely matters. You're piling in during the enemies turn, and you're deciding which models to remove. You can very, very easily daisy chain things within 4" of other enemy units/trap them in such a way that if they kill any single model from your Aberrants and they weren't careful, you can just pile into that unit and have it locked down already.

I think it has some real teeth.

Before some quotes me into oblivion, see below. I misread.

it won't be locked down cause that model is getting removed at the end of the phase anyway, and isn't doing any damage to anything it didn't already charge. So there's no real tricks possible in there. Use it to make Abberants kill a Knight in a turn basically.

Oh, yeah, right. Suppose I misread and misimagined in my excitement.

Regardless, still a surprise little "feth you" from a model if someone gets too close. Let's you hammer down the whole control notion of aberrants a bit if you opt to go that route.

How would this interact with the leaked GSC stratagem to resurrect an abominant when it dies? Would it still be able to, since that one says it removes the Abominant from play?

I’m assuming the Abominant gets access to it since the stratagem uses the bolded Aberrant keyword, which the Abominant has.

Those leaks were confirmed fake by the leaker iirc

 Badablack wrote:
How would this interact with the leaked GSC stratagem to resurrect an abominant when it dies? Would it still be able to, since that one says it removes the Abominant from play?

I’m assuming the Abominant gets access to it since the stratagem uses the bolded Aberrant keyword, which the Abominant has.

if that strat is real then yes

Well, with Field Commanders being a thing it's basically even more of a love relationship I have with this Formation.

Making the Abominant always giving +1 to Charge while also retaining another Warlord is all the sweeter.

I wonder if they'll remember to prevent us from using the IG formations

Updated the original post with the new information. Stratagem, Relic, and Warlord trait have been noted and I made a new section covering Specialist Detachments.

I'm very curious to see what will be in the Deliverance Broodsurge one. The 7th edition version allowed embarked models to disembark after the vehicle moved at cruising speed (basically advanced) and charge but had to take a dangerous terrain check for doing so (basically roll a D6 for each model and each roll of 1 killed a model). It also upgraded the Rugged Construction rule, though at the time it only affected the ability to shoot after taking a hit rather than mitigate damage directly.

I bet the new version will probably include the new Neophyte bikes, as a GSC counterpart to the Ork Speed WAAAGH!!! which has buggies and warbikers. If such is the case that would explain why it has not been previewed.

 Badablack wrote:
How would this interact with the leaked GSC stratagem to resurrect an abominant when it dies? Would it still be able to, since that one says it removes the Abominant from play?

I’m assuming the Abominant gets access to it since the stratagem uses the bolded Aberrant keyword, which the Abominant has.

I think the "leak" was just taking the "Anointed One Rises" from Tooth and Claw and making it generic (same with some of the others - Final Detonation is from the first mission involving Metamorphs blowing up chunks of the city to distract the Space Wolves). The exact wording is "Use this Stratagem if Bregg the Anointed is slain. At the end of this phase, Bregg the Anointed is set up again, as close as possible to his previous position and more than 1'' from any enemy models with D3 wounds remaining". Hypothetically, he could go down, swing, and then stand back up again at the end of the phase.

Still, Devotion Till Death will never interact with The Anointed One Rises in its present form because the mission the stratagem is from is effectively a kill team mission played using full game rules. Neither side has a battleforged army, so no specialist detachment is possible.

C4790M wrote:
I wonder if they'll remember to prevent us from using the IG formations

Technically they don't have to. We can use non-regimental things as is from Astra Militarum and any specialist detachments that require a particular regiment keyword can't work on Brood Brothers. No idea what the codex is going to change mind you.

The new AM Formation that denies OW Coupled with Mass Hypnosis is a recipe for happy Cults.

Hi all, I have some Genestealer Cult models from various box sets lying about and thought about making them into a cohesive force.

Was curious if they are decent as a stand alone army? I know a codex is rumored soon as well as dirt bike and 4 wheeler models. Just wondered how everyone felt about GSC currently.

Also is every variant of Leman Russ available to us or just the battle tank?

Thanks!

Incognito15 wrote:
Hi all, I have some Genestealer Cult models from various box sets lying about and thought about making them into a cohesive force.

Was curious if they are decent as a stand alone army? I know a codex is rumored soon as well as dirt bike and 4 wheeler models. Just wondered how everyone felt about GSC currently.

Also is every variant of Leman Russ available to us or just the battle tank?

Thanks!

Hey and welcome to the cult!

Currently GSC is unfortunately quite weak as a standalone force, but can be very useful as a smaller detachment in a tyranid or astra militarum army. The general advice for people wanting to play singularly GSC competitively is to wait for the codex. If you wanna play for fun rather than in hardcore tournaments and are fine with being higly reliant on lucky Ambush rolls to win, then GSC works :-)

Best units currently are probably: genestealers, aberrants with picks, abominant, patriarch (but the tyranid broodlord that does the same job gets a serious points drop in Chapter Approved) and magus. For troop choices: Neophytes without heavy weapons (or possibly a mortar) are allright, as are big units of acolytes with plenty of rocksaws.

For Leman Russ we can use the four variants that are buildable from the Battle Tank box, so Battle Cannon, Eradicator Nova Cannon, Exterminator Autocannon and Vanquisher Battle Cannon. My clear favourite is the regular Battle Cannon. It is rumoured that Chapter Approved will lower the cost of some of the variants, so maybe they will become more useful in a week.

Welcome to the Cult, brother!

In my experience it is always tough to answer the question of "is army x any good?" online. We don't know what your local meta looks like. At my LGS we play mostly casual or semi-competitive games. So in my non-trounament-lists environment, my GSC is doing quite well, actually. And I play a pure GSC army, without Nid or Guard allies (so far).

The Cult hits like a ton of bricks when our units come in but right now we are a rather "gimmicky" army. Bad rolls on the ambush table can literally cost us the game and with the "no deepstriking before turn 2" we are at a big disadvantage, especially if we don't get first turn.

I have to disagree on big units of Acolytes. Those are only usefull if you want to take down something like a Knight. But against anything else they are often just overkill. I play min squads with two Rocksaws each and they do the job just as well as a big squad of 10 guys.

Neophytes are sadly not that good. They can neither be taken in as big blobs as for example Chaos Cultists can (so you can screen off less with a single unit) and they are as expensive as a Guardman but don't have access to any orders. The way I play them is 10 in a truck with 2x GL and 2x Mining Lasers as well as a big blob of 20 with Shotguns and Flamers dropping in with a Magus and Primus via ambush.

BoLS has a review of the Deliverance Broodsurge. If goliath trucks drop in price I think this can be useful for first turn pressure and objective grabs.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-deliverance-broodsurge-special-detachment-deep-dive.html

Yup. But it seems worse than ambushing in our CC units. Keeping more than 9" away makes this only useful for objective grabs, board control and maybe getting shooty units in RFR.

However, nothing is stopping us from taking that detachment, ambushing in the Acolytes (instead of sticking them in the Truck) and then using that sweet +1 to-wound stratagem.

Or even just a big blob of Neophytes with a Patriarch and Magus buffing them. Hitting on 3s with S4, re-rolling 1s for the Cult Icon and +1 to-wound means they now wound MEQs on 3s or vehicles on 4s.

To me, it's less good than the Anointed Ones, but that'll all depend on the Codex.

edit: nmind

 SHUPPET wrote:
holy hell. First to Draw Blood is an incredible stratagem. So is Vial of the Grandsires Blood.

Assuming Might hasn't changed With the stratagem + Might, a unit of Neophytes alone can ambush in with a Primus and do 100 attacks at S6, 3+ to hit, re-rolling 1s... and +1 to wound..... for 120 points. And that's not even counting the shotguns.

For measure, that's putting 38 wounds onto a Knight (no AP tho). It's absolutely shredding everything else, without even risking many points worth of models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wow the same thing with Purestrains is 140 attacks S7 +1 to wound

just multi assault everything in range it's all gonna melt

The vials one use effect only targets a single model, not a unit :-(

Mellon wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
holy hell. First to Draw Blood is an incredible stratagem. So is Vial of the Grandsires Blood.

Assuming Might hasn't changed With the stratagem + Might, a unit of Neophytes alone can ambush in with a Primus and do 100 attacks at S6, 3+ to hit, re-rolling 1s... and +1 to wound..... for 120 points. And that's not even counting the shotguns.

For measure, that's putting 38 wounds onto a Knight (no AP tho). It's absolutely shredding everything else, without even risking many points worth of models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wow the same thing with Purestrains is 140 attacks S7 +1 to wound

just multi assault everything in range it's all gonna melt

The vials one use effect only targets a single model, not a unit :-(

ack my eyes

not very good then

+1 to wound strat is still the wave for Neophytes tho

Will the +1 to Wound rolls with Rending Claws turn 5's into 6's for -4 AP...Would it also change 6's into hypothetical 7's?

Rending claws do their magic on a 6+, so yep it works. If it said unmodified 6’s it would need just a 6, and if it said just 6 then 7’s wouldn’t work. But saying it needs a 6+ means modifiers work.

I heard rumours that a GSC army with tyranid allies placed second in in heat 3 at the Warhammer World Grand Tournament.

Have anyone got more details on this? Maybe even a list?

I hear the chap who did it is handsome and kind too. Also that it was me and I’ll find you a list.
Went 5-0, most secondaries, most kill points and missed out on 1st by a single paint/sports vote.
List to follow once I’m unpacked and my knees stop hurting.

Sneggy wrote:
I hear the chap who did it is handsome and kind too. Also that it was me and I’ll find you a list.
Went 5-0, most secondaries, most kill points and missed out on 1st by a single paint/sports vote.
List to follow once I’m unpacked and my knees stop hurting.

My hero! <3

Here you go folks, enjoy. Loads of fun to play.

Faced ork horde with the loota shenanigans round one.
Blood angels with 18 aggressors and some guard friends round 2.
Drukhari and Aeldari vehicle spam round 3
Ad Mech priest/dragoon spam round 4
Orks again round 5.

Tabled everybody except the last ork player who had an empty trukk run away for two turns to avoid being tabled.

That’s a solid list. Probably about the same points cost after CA with neurothropes and chimeras balancing each other out.

Sneggy wrote:
I hear the chap who did it is handsome and kind too. Also that it was me and I’ll find you a list.
Went 5-0, most secondaries, most kill points and missed out on 1st by a single paint/sports vote.
List to follow once I’m unpacked and my knees stop hurting.

Grats!

Could you maybe write a bit more detailed report? I'd like to know how that list plays.

Anyone want to transcribe that? Unfortunately can't make it out on mobile.

If not, no worries, I can't wait a day or two to hop on a PC and make sense of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind, I'm a dumby.

How did the Aberrants do?

Bit busy this morning but I'll try and get you chaps a rundown of my army list, match ups and how it played later on.

As for on the list, the font is horrible. Its meant to be the style of a targetted at middle aged women trashy erotic novel cover.
The list is called "Muscles, Moustaches and mining: An erotic novel/army list"

I did have legible ones to give to my opponents, this was just one of the troll ones I had for laughs.

Sneggy wrote:
Here you go folks, enjoy. Loads of fun to play.

Faced ork horde with the loota shenanigans round one.
Blood angels with 18 aggressors and some guard friends round 2.
Drukhari and Aeldari vehicle spam round 3
Ad Mech priest/dragoon spam round 4
Orks again round 5.

Tabled everybody except the last ork player who had an empty trukk run away for two turns to avoid being tabled.

Wow... this list looks very fragile. Against most people I play against aside from the obvious ambushes I'd expect most of this to be gunned down turn one. Well done and very well played. You must have had very good terrain to work with.

At Warhammer World? I wish. Most boards had a couple of ruins, couple of forests and a generator or two. All with gaps/windows so they didn’t block line of sight. I had two line of sight blocking pieces (total, 1 in round 2 and 1 in round 3) all tournament. This list plays super defensive and punished you turns 2 and 3. Most gun lines get to shoot just once. Certainly at anything I don’t want getting shot.

sounds like a blast, and very thematic. Any photos from the day? Cool list too. Do the Aberrants go in the Chimera's?

Sneegy glad to see someone else with my
List run it and do good . It’s a tricky list but it can hit so hard.

Quick question: With heavy stubbers dropping to 2 points are they worth it now? 10 Neophytes with two HS could camp on objectives but I fear that they are just not viable without a vehicle to hide in. They just die so easily.

 Causalis wrote:
Quick question: With heavy stubbers dropping to 2 points are they worth it now? 10 Neophytes with two HS could camp on objectives but I fear that they are just not viable without a vehicle to hide in. They just die so easily.

Neophytes with 6++ are probably the best tanking cheap models in the game atm. I would get 2x grenade launchers on every squad for measly 6 points

Did I miss something or where did they get a 6+ invul save? Or are you referring to the Iconward with his 6+ FNP. Because he can't babysit all units across the board.

 Causalis wrote:
Quick question: With heavy stubbers dropping to 2 points are they worth it now? 10 Neophytes with two HS could camp on objectives but I fear that they are just not viable without a vehicle to hide in. They just die so easily.

Neophytes are unlikely to do any meaningful shooting. That said, upgrading two autoguns to heavy stubbers adds a little dakka for less points than one extra neophyte, so I'd say it is worth it if you plan to shoot at all. (One H-stubber standing still will average 0,25 dead spacemarines.) HW-team with mortar is also an option if you are hiding and camping objectives in the back field.

They do indeed die easily. If I need them to survive I prefer to bring more for the points, rather than giving them a transport. One goliath truck costs about as much as two units of Neophytes.

 Causalis wrote:
Did I miss something or where did they get a 6+ invul save? Or are you referring to the Iconward with his 6+ FNP. Because he can't babysit all units across the board.

He babysits the Neophyte units...this is his only role atm and he is damn efficient at doing so

Yes he does. But he can't babysit all of the squads. Unless we buy multiple Iconwards. He's also one of the worse Icon-carriers out there. Other Icons let the models shoot/fight again before dying, ignore morale altogether, give - 1 to being hit etc.

A 6+ FNP barely does anything noteworthy. It most certainly won't stop a Neophyte squad from dying in droves so I don't really see how he is "damn efficient". Love the model though and I hope we can buff him in the codex somehow.

 Causalis wrote:
Yes he does. But he can't babysit all of the squads. Unless we buy multiple Iconwards. He's also one of the worse Icon-carriers out there. Other Icons let the models shoot/fight again before dying, ignore morale altogether, give - 1 to being hit etc.

A 6+ FNP barely does anything noteworthy. It most certainly won't stop a Neophyte squad from dying in droves so I don't really see how he is "damn efficient". Love the model though and I hope we can buff him in the codex somehow.

With the relic banner though he gives +1str Which is super useful for genestealers letting them wound everything on a 5+ max is very useful.

I'm having a hard time trying to plan out the future. Obviously, without codex information, that's likely to be the case.

However, here's my dilemma.

I very much want to be running a detachment of AM using the new emperor's wrath formation, and part of me really wants to use the anointed ones as well, just because I love the stratagem.

So we're sold on a GSC Detachment of either a Battalion or a Supreme Command, and an AM Batallion.

What do I look into for the third detachment?

It's currently hard to pick between either expanding a GSC Batallion to include more and more units (which may likely be the case once the codex drops, that could prove to be the best choice.) or do I pursue a Tyranid detachment?

Sure is hard to say no to the Swarmlord and 2x20 Genestealers now that Swarmy dropped to 250. That's some real teeth. On the same token, Kronos Hive Guard on top of tons of brood brothers mortars and a wyvern as well as GSC mortars just brings tons of indirect fire to the party, and that sounds quite appealing.

It's a rough spot, boys.

.

Keeping tabs for the tournament details!

Broodlords are probably going to replace Neurothropes in most allied detachments. The price difference compared to what you get is much more competitive now.

Of course, going by current points costs Patriarchs will end up even cheaper in the codex, so the obligatory allied nids micht end up unnecessary.

I'm torn on that, purchase wise. Patriarchs really do need a drop, and without one I can't see myself bothering with Purestrains over Aberrants.

Here's hoping it's nearly as drastic.

Darkwynn wrote:Sneegy glad to see someone else with my
List run it and do good . It’s a tricky list but it can hit so hard.

indeed, I was running something not a million miles from this list but with a lot more neophytes instead of the transports before your major win. You put me onto the Chimeras and it really does help the list with the first few turns. I assume you are doing LVO with the Genestealer Cult? I'll be taking mine down there, be interesting to have a beer and see how we get on.

Rheel wrote:Keeping tabs for the tournament details!

Ha ha sorry folks I got distracted. I've actually done an interview on a podcast which is due to go out on tuesday I believe and am scheduling in an interview on twitch in the next week or so. Might be easier if I just link those here rather than try and type out an essay on how everything went?

If people have specific questions I'm happy to answer them of course.

Badablack wrote:Broodlords are probably going to replace Neurothropes in most allied detachments. The price difference compared to what you get is much more competitive now.

Of course, going by current points costs Patriarchs will end up even cheaper in the codex, so the obligatory allied nids micht end up unnecessary.

I'm not saying I'm painting a second broodlord as we speak. But I'm not, not doing that.

For sure Sneggy. I think next step for me to look at is Pyrovores

I incorporated the new stuff from Vigilus Defiant in the main post.

Just musing, but I think the Deliverance Broodsurge is better than we might have initially suspected. Reckless Maneuver is going to be really nice as a compliment to the newly cheaper Swarmlord as a way to get two threats up the table in the enemy's face turn 1. Should be able to slingshot a unit of ‘stealers or gaunts up to lock things down and then deploy Acolytes with weapons for armor cracking. Admittedly I am biased since I already run a lot of trucks, but the individual components look like they have potential for shenanigans.

I'll try to go over the points adjustments in chapter approved as well. I suspect most of them are just copying the AM points adjustments but we'll see...

Yeah I don’t think any of our stuff was changed in chapter Approved other than what changed for astra militarum as well.

I've only managed the briefest of looks though Vigilus Defiant, but it is there any reason a Brood Brothers detachment couldn't use the AM specialist detachments?

The (four-armed) emperor's artillery detachment could be good with it's ignore overwatch stratagem.

Nope. Brood brothers changes the regiment, not the faction, so it's 100% usable.

Anointed Thron and Four Armed Emperor's Artillery for life.

Nids player *takes notes*

Nick Rose won another large event with GSC. Can't wait to see his list.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Nick Rose won another large event with GSC. Can't wait to see his list.

It’s the same list as before, as far as I can tell. Seems to be doing a lot of work for him.

What was the event?

Battle for the Shield GT or something along those lines.

Yep same list as last time. Went against knights, orks and tau. Pulled it through and landed it near the end.

Very nice work.
I was told by the events team at Warhammer World during the Heat 3 awards that they would pass on to the rules writers not to bother giving us a codex as we are clearly fine without.
We'd best calm down for a bit Nick before we cost these poor fellows a new codex!

No, no, clearly they need to let Nick write the codex because the man can somehow work almost literal trash to his advantage. Lol

I won't argue that the book is pretty bad ! One reason I think its doing so well as it sits right outside the cusp of the meta and is becoming a spolier army. We have to maximize everything we can get. One of the reasons why I enjoy the list so much is I can't make a single mistake. If I do... its game over

Darkwynn wrote:
I won't argue that the book is pretty bad ! One reason I think its doing so well as it sits right outside the cusp of the meta and is becoming a spolier army. We have to maximize everything we can get. One of the reasons why I enjoy the list so much is I can't make a single mistake. If I do... its game over

I agree, makes it really interesting. You really feel you earn the results too. No point and click here.
I also found it helped that a lot of people simply dont understand what Genestealer cult can do. Its one thing explaining to people how it works at the start of the game. Its another entirely experiencing it. The difference between how my regular opponents play vs my cult and how strangers at events do is incredible.

Darkwynn wrote:
I won't argue that the book is pretty bad ! One reason I think its doing so well as it sits right outside the cusp of the meta and is becoming a spolier army. We have to maximize everything we can get. One of the reasons why I enjoy the list so much is I can't make a single mistake. If I do... its game over

How do you feel on the cusp of the book?

Looking at more melee tyranid allies or the shooty/hive guard option?

Obviously no way to know until the codex is ready, but I'm personally super torn.

At this point, I want a book... It is really sad to look at the Vigilius book look at all these artifacts and go ... wow I can only have one of these, wait maybe if I spend CP to buy another reli... oh wait...

Wait. Did the tyranid broodlord get cheaper, but the GSC did not get cheaper?

Correct. No GSC Changes because the book is coming.

Geoff Robinson on the Chapter Tactics podcast also indicated today that you will have a "hard time" fitting AM/Nids AND GSC all in one list post codex.

I can't imagine wanting to give up the new Emperors Wrath Artillery formation, but hey, we'll see where things go.

 Niiai wrote:
Wait. Did the tyranid broodlord get cheaper, but the GSC did not get cheaper?

Yeah. The patriarch is still 150p. We didn't get any points reductions for sentinels or chimeras either, despite AM getting them.

Still waiting for the codex...

So is this basically Nick Rose's list?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-top-list-of-the-week-december-19th-the-gsc-rises.html

I can't seem to wrap my mind around it to be honest. I understand what the theme of the army is, but I don't see how he's dealing with the "meta" picks (Knights).

Can anyone break this list down for a newbie?

Well he has 3 Thropes for smites, his Abbs put out an Average of 12 Wounds per attack cycle to the Knights BEFORE taking exploding 6s into account with Abominants.

Pick and Claw Abbs shred things now that every pick attack nets an extra claw attack, and Abominants turn them into blenders.

Genestealers tear apart infantry, etc

I aint no Nick Rose, dude is a GSC Wizard, but he has a great mix of models that fill roles he needs filled.

He can kill a Gallant with nothing but two Abominants and a single unit of Aberrants, and that's just on average.

 Niiai wrote:
Wait. Did the tyranid broodlord get cheaper, but the GSC did not get cheaper?

Correct, though I anticipate that will adjust with the codex as well. Most of the chapter approved adjustments were a mirror of changes to the IG (though Heavy Stubbers indirectly drop the cost of our Goliaths a fair amount).

I suppose also to play devils advocate, the Tyranid army list only has 1 HQ at 80 points or less (formerly the Neurothrope, now the Tyranid Prime) while the GSC army list has 4 (Iconward, Primus, Magus, Abominant).

 ajax_xaja wrote:
So is this basically Nick Rose's list?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-top-list-of-the-week-december-19th-the-gsc-rises.html

I can't seem to wrap my mind around it to be honest. I understand what the theme of the army is, but I don't see how he's dealing with the "meta" picks (Knights).

Can anyone break this list down for a newbie?

I think they are relying on psychic shenanigans coupled with good armor cracking melee for anti-Knight work. Neurothropes can cast two powers a turn, so they should be laying down a lot of Smites followed by Psychic Scream (similar to Smite but with a bonus against psykers), Paroxysm (target has to swing last - no interrupts), and The Horror (-1 to hit, stacks with Mass Hypnosis for a -2 and smoke launchers for -3 if applicable). All of the Broodmind powers are good against Knights in their own way, though I imagine he is mainly using Mass Hypnosis and Might from Beyond. Mind Control is also great against Knights, but it can be hard to get off if the opponent knows what it will do if they allow the Magi to get close enough.

The list is basically designed to get the Aberrants to the foe and buff them to the stratosphere, with 'stealers providing back-up. Meanwhile, the Rippers and Neophytes basically go for objectives while the enemy is occupied with the melee threats blending through their lines.

I should add, a lot of the "meta" builds are relying on a relatively small handful of units to provide firepower (Knights, Loota Bomb, etc.) which is exactly the sort of opponent GSC wants to fight. The more concentrated the opponent's damage output, the easier it is for us to eliminate it.

What is he putting in the chimeras ?

taetrius67 wrote:
What is he putting in the chimeras ?

I'm guessing the Aberrants + support characters (6-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, Iconward, and Magus, 7-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, and Magus), but it would depend heavily on the match-up, mission, and whether they have first turn or not. If conditions are favorable for ambushing the Neophytes presumably ride inside instead and the Aberrants + Primus ambush into position. Chimeras with the new cover for the second player stratagem are surprisingly hard to kill first turn at long range, and can pop smoke for a -1 to hit after advancing on the first turn prior to delivering their cargo.

If the Aberrants are Ambushing I assume the Chimeras are also acting as screen clearing alongside the 'stealers. I vaguely remember someone mentioning they were being employed as a mobile wall to shield the Kraken stealers on their way up the table as well (makes sense, both are very fast and Chimeras are fairly long models).

In depth interview with James who rocked GSC in a tournament. Really interesting to listen to, I learned a lot.

Listen to 40k // The Tom Leighton Interviews EP 2 - James Mackenzie by The Honest Wargamer #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/the-honest-wargamer/40k-the-top-leighton-interviews-ep2-james-mackenzie

 Strat_N8 wrote:

taetrius67 wrote:
What is he putting in the chimeras ?

I'm guessing the Aberrants + support characters (6-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, Iconward, and Magus, 7-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, and Magus), but it would depend heavily on the match-up, mission, and whether they have first turn or not. If conditions are favorable for ambushing the Neophytes presumably ride inside instead and the Aberrants + Primus ambush into position. Chimeras with the new cover for the second player stratagem are surprisingly hard to kill first turn at long range, and can pop smoke for a -1 to hit after advancing on the first turn prior to delivering their cargo.

If the Aberrants are Ambushing I assume the Chimeras are also acting as screen clearing alongside the 'stealers. I vaguely remember someone mentioning they were being employed as a mobile wall to shield the Kraken stealers on their way up the table as well (makes sense, both are very fast and Chimeras are fairly long models).

Yeah I don’t think he ever put the aberrants into a chimera. They were just used as a wall to block LOS to the Kraken stealers (think Rhino scoping but in reverse). He also went second a lot. It’s an interesting list in that it’s reserve heavy but also a list that wants second turn. Most lists are the opposite if they’re reserve heavy - wanting first turn to mitigate damage done prior to reserves coming in. Looks like I may need some chimerae, especially if they come down in price in the codex like they should to mirror the IG chimera. Also I love that the abominant is every bit the monster that we thought he was.

Can second the plug on the podcast though. It’s a good listen, and I’ve played a ton of tyranids and a decent amount of GSC, though not much GSC post 8th

290 pts of empty transports to block line of sight to 190 pts of Stealers is an interesting decision. Surely there's more to it than that, he must be putting something in them?

 SHUPPET wrote:
290 pts of empty transports to block line of sight to 190 pts of Stealers is an interesting decision. Surely there's more to it than that, he must be putting something in them?

There are lots of details about how the "Nick Rose army" plays in the podcast I linked a few posts up.

As I understood it, the chimeras are usually loaded with neophytes, maguses and abomnants. Since he starts with putting a lot of things into reserve, he will know where the enemy has their firebase when it's finally time to deploy the chimeras and genestealers. So he can do a minimum deployment of chimeras, neurothropes and genestealers in a position where they are fairly well protected. So the chimeras are a way to reduce drops, reduce tabletop footprint, to bunker up the squishies and to protect the genestealer unit that is key to this entire playstyle. Aberrants and purestrains where usually ambushed.

I don’t think he has ever started the aberrants on the table. Maybe with the ability to disembark and charge it could be a thing but that only applies to rockgrinders and just generally it’s bad if your opponent can kill a single chimera and then shoot at the important stuff inside

I know it probably wouldn't be competitive, but for a fun match how do you think an elite only army would do on the table Something like

Supreme command detachment
Abomination
Abomination
Patriarch
Primus

Vanguard Detachment
Abomination
Abberants x10 with picks and improvised weapon
Abberants x10 with picks and improvised weapon
Abberants x10 with picks and improvised weapon
Genestealer x10
Genestealer x10
4x chimera with Heavy Flamers

mightymconeshot wrote:I know it probably wouldn't be competitive, but for a fun match how do you think an elite only army would do on the table Something like

I'm a bit concerned about the body count truthfully. GSC already struggles with attrition and only having 55 infantry models just feels way too few to be safe. I think the list could do well if you are able to table your opponent, but you are going to struggle with objectives and against anyone who can take the initial blow and counter-punch. You might want to run 6 units of 5 Aberrants instead of 3 units of 10, since it gives you a bit more control over where you want to direct your killing power (having a big blob of 10 means they will just carve through whatever they are against and then promptly get shot - 5 might leave some survivors that you can surround and lock in until next turn).

I don't think the Patriarch is really doing much for this list. He is a great blender but in a composition consisting almost entirely of blenders you might be better off with a pair of magi to provide more psychic coverage (You are really going to need Mass Hypnosis to mitigate your low body count and lack of chaff for overwatch soaking, Might From Beyond is good too for both 'stealers and Aberrants).


Also on a non-gameplay related note, that list would be horrendously expensive to build. The Aberrant kit only has enough parts to build 3 Power Pick-equipped models, so you're going to need 9 boxes worth to get enough for that list without conversion work...

I'm on the camp of 5 boxes of Abbs, and would have needed a 6th to have enough for 2x10 w/ 2 Hypers and 8 picks each.

Did wonky conversion to make it work. Honestly, itsnt too hard on Abbs since they're mostly all muscle and chitin anyway, but you do still need an extra pick and claw somehow. Luckily, had a buddy.

It's .. the rest of GSC that's making me have some restraint until the book drops, even basic neophytes I barely want to build because it's possible all shotguns becomes the best loadout in the future, lol.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

It's .. the rest of GSC that's making me have some restraint until the book drops, even basic neophytes I barely want to build because it's possible all shotguns becomes the best loadout in the future, lol.

Eh, I have a heap of autogun neophytes from Deathwatch Overkill and Goliath kits, so every time I pick up a box the new recruits are given shotguns. I actually rather like shotguns for cheap cannon fodder squads, as they don't need any further upgrades to do what they need to do but can hit fairly hard for their price point when at 6''. Being able to run-and-gun is also rather nice for objective grabbing while still getting to throw some dice.

The main thing I'm curious to see for Neophytes is what they are going to do with the Webber. The old version was really nice and unique while the current version just doesn't do anything useful to justify it vs a grenade launcher or flamer.

Hell, even Hybrids may actually somehow prove worth it.

It's an exciting time.

I run 2 minimum size squads and one of 8 with aberrants personally (2 tooth/claw boxes and 2 overkill). It gets me more hypermorphs, who seem to do all the heavy lifting anyway.

They’ve been working great for me, usually with the big squad in reserve with a Primus and the other 2 in chimeras with Abominants. I do think aberrants and Abominants will get a ‘counts as 2 models in transports rule’ in the codex though. Most other multiwound models get that one. Which should still let let them ride in chimeras fine, just without other characters tagging along.

I ran and tested my 2x10 Aberrants w/ 2 Hypermorphs and 8 picks with an Abominant and a Primus last night.

Did some surprising work and the exploding hits were just as impressive as I'd assumed.

Really, really loving that change.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a non-Guard GSC Lord of War? What would it be lol?

You mean a lord of war that has not been loted? Or that is not Imperial Guard? Perhaps something like a giant modules (burrowing armored personel carriee) or the technodrome from TMNT.

Peehaps some psyonic amplifyer with a magus on topp. Think the sonic tanks from Atradies in Dune 2 or Dune 2000.

Gianth flesh crafted things are more of a tyranid thing.

I can’t see GSC getting big superweapons that they didn’t just steal from someone else. That would be like ISIS rolling up on America with an aircraft carrier, it’s outside their level of logistics or manufacturing.

Their fluff could change drastically in their codex and the Vigilus supplements though, so who knows.

Yeah a GSC Gargant might just be a pipe dream. And any technology they get is obviously just jacked from Guard.


rules for Infected Knights would be an awesome addition though!

Maybe a mining rig platform, like those monstrosities that are used for fracking. Or huge powerloaders to lift and transport stuff.

Mellon wrote:
Maybe a mining rig platform, like those monstrosities that are used for fracking. Or huge powerloaders to lift and transport stuff.

oh that's a great idea


I actually saw a great conversion of something like that


the guy just ran it with Baneblade rules, which is cool

Yah I've seen this before and would love to see an actual kit/official rules for this.

Is that a doctor who screwdriver on top?

Put that image in a spoiler tag please. Its messing up the page formatting.

News coming from GW this weekend. Cannot wait.

I reaaaaally hope they'll announce the release date for out codex this weekend. I'm also suspecting that we'll see more new units or maybe some rule sneek peeks.

New GSC reveals.



Images are titled, Sanctus, Clamavus, Locus, and Magus, respectively.

I think that is unit names, not chapter tactics, as the girl is definitely a Magus.



We've seen the rest of the (non-terrain) models, though the Gunslinger has been given a unit name as well, the Kelermorph, and the moonbuggy got a name on the image title "Wolf Quad". For a second I thought that drill was gonna be some sort of mining Lord of War as was suggested here just recently, which would have been awesome.







My big takeaways from all this from a gameplay perspective:

this looks like the addition of FOUR new characters to the army. It's possible Kelermorph is an elite, but even so, our HQ slot is already FLOODED with key options, so I think this might make it even harder to pick which ones.

The Locus is almost DEFINITELY Cult of The Bladed Cog, and while we could assume that we were getting chapter tactics of some sort, this one in particular implies that ADMECH ALLIES MAY BE OPENED UP FOR GSC, maybe even just for this cult choice specifically, which could be incredible.

It also makes me think none of the GSC leaks were at all true, because not only have we famously been a target for fake leaks before, we're seeing about 6-7 new units here being added to the dex and not one of them was mentioned in the leaks which were otherwise pretty in depth.

I guess in a world of 8~ Primaris Lieutenants its not impossible - but explicitly having two Magus models with the same equipment seems kind of redundant. Could she be a special character? I suspect I am reaching.

I also agree that having all these as HQs seems a bit impractical, so I wouldn't be surprised if some were elites choices instead. Or there is some sort of special rule so they don't take up slots. Maybe they come together in a unit like a command squad - since wasn't there a guy with a table as well?

In any case they look great except the Sanctus, which I feel looks stupid. Its just a guy with some strange goggles and a knife. They had to stick a familiar on the model because it doesn't otherwise tie in with the rest.

 SHUPPET wrote:
It also makes me think none of the GSC leaks were at all true, because not only have we famously been a target for fake leaks before, we're seeing about 6-7 new units here being added to the dex and not one of them was mentioned in the leaks which were otherwise pretty in depth.

At the very least the one about the reduced brood brothers rule was fake, dude made it as an example of how easy the things were to fake and people then ran with it to other places without context.

yeah, guy with the table, this guy was spotted too. Looks like an apothecary type:


agreed, sanctus looks dumb. If he ends up being any good I'll just be using this guy:

Huh, so many new characters! I am almost certain that at least some of them will be "mini characters" in the elite section, instead of being all HQ choices (look at the Death Guard release. They too have many characters but those are divided into HQs and Elites).

They all look great. I love the apothecary, Locus and the female Magus. The Assassin looks odd. But to be honest "a guy with strange googles and a knife" fits the GSC thematicaly. Their assassins should have some neat gimmicks but not the best gear since all their ressources are looted etc. Or just convert the Dark Elf Assassin.

I also hope they end up as Elites. It's unlikely they're all worth using, but I cannot contain my excitement.

She can corrupt my genes any time. Er...

This model might look quite nice if the familiar is repositioned. I'd probably shift it to an entirely separate base.

Might be tempting to do a face swap too.

I'd honestly probably remove the familiar entirely. If it can't fit on the base properly it shouldn't even be there.

See what I mean...

To be fair if his rules were like WHFB assassins, so say you could swap him into a neophyte squad after charging/being charged then that could potentially be interesting.

The goggles are putting me off though.

No goggles...

this model is getting better by the post. Can someone give him a more obviously Genestealer face now (with no goggles)?

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Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll stop spamming this thread with these now.

I dunno, I think the goggles make him look very unique, and the familiar is so cute!

I love of the playstyle is a lot of mooks and cool characters. Itw will be unique.

Guys don't forget some armies get characters that don't eat force org slots. It's entirely possible that some of the advisors or whatever you want to call them will have a battlefield designation but not count toward filling them. This can be good and bad depending on how you designing armies.

I would guess a multiple of these are named characters for different cults. The assassin, magus, locus and gunslinger all seem pretty unique. I'd wager only the medic, vox caster dude and nexos are generic elite slot editions. Could be wrong though.

Imperial Guard have officers in elite slots. I am sure GSC could too.

 Fifty wrote:
Imperial Guard have officers in elite slots. I am sure GSC could too.

It's confirmed that all new characters are in the Elite slot

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
Imperial Guard have officers in elite slots. I am sure GSC could too.

It's confirmed that all new characters are in the Elite slot

Source?

 luke1705 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
Imperial Guard have officers in elite slots. I am sure GSC could too.

It's confirmed that all new characters are in the Elite slot

Source?

It isn't "CONFIRMED!" confirmed but purportedly from the Open Day all that were shown at the Open Day barring the Magus(which is just an alternate build) and the Jackal Alphus(the dirtbike sniper) are Elites.

Jackal Alphus is purportedly an HQ as well as the Magus remaining in that slot.

Question about rules, does Bestial Vigour lower the damage from Smites also?

 SHUPPET wrote:


Images are titled, Sanctus, Clamavus, Locus, and Magus, respectively.

I think that is unit names, not chapter tactics, as the girl is definitely a Magus.

We've seen the rest of the (non-terrain) models, though the Gunslinger has been given a unit name as well, the Kelermorph, and the moonbuggy got a name on the image title "Wolf Quad".

Excellent! Added to the original post under upcoming. Once we know for sure where the units go (though we can take some educated guesses for the non-character options) I'll move them to the correct places in preparation for the codex thread.

I find it interesting they are making a separate release Magus, though it makes sense. Most GSC lists up to this point have been making fairly heavy use of them, so it adds an alternate sculpt to mix things up a bit and presumably a cheaper alternative than buying 3 Brood Coven boxes (maybe). Here's hoping they don't do away with the brood coven box anytime soon though, I do like the sculpts within.

 SHUPPET wrote:

this looks like the addition of FOUR new characters to the army. It's possible Kelermorph is an elite, but even so, our HQ slot is already FLOODED with key options, so I think this might make it even harder to pick which ones.

I think the Kelermorph is probably going to be an HQ, as most of the commanders in Kill Team are (main exception is Death Guard using their elite characters, but their actual HQ models would probably be too tough for most factions to deal with in the kill team setting). Still, having an abundance of HQ models isn't the worst problem to have (certainly compared to the opposite - see poor Admech, Drukhari, and Sisters).

I do think the Neophyte-based ones might (or likely will) end up as Elite choices though. Neophytes in the fluff aren't held in the same regard as the hybrids that overtly show Tyrannic influences. Still, we have two solid Elite options already and one that hopefully will be seeing a buff with the codex, so that slot is going to be fairly heavily contested as well.

 SHUPPET wrote:

The Locus is almost DEFINITELY Cult of The Bladed Cog, and while we could assume that we were getting chapter tactics of some sort, this one in particular implies that ADMECH ALLIES MAY BE OPENED UP FOR GSC, maybe even just for this cult choice specifically, which could be incredible.

Unfortunately, I think it is done up in the standard Cult of the Four Armed Emperor scheme with added purple robes. The Bladed Cog color scheme has red hazard suits with teal-blue cloth. (see here) while the Locus has visible gray shoulder pads.

Also worth noting, the Bladed Cog HATES admech with a passion as their primary oppressors. The 7th edition codex painted them as being more tech-savvy than your average cult due to being headquartered on a forge world, but there isn't anything to suggest they have access to Mechanicus war material (though they do apparently steal Russes directly off the production line).

Also a car/van version of the Goliath was in the preview video, which might be a Venom equivalent.

Araablane wrote:
Question about rules, does Bestial Vigour lower the damage from Smites also?

No, because mortal wounds are dealt one at a time for 1 damage each. The 5+ to negate a wound still works however. Also in the case of Smite remember the Spiritual Leader ability on the Magus if you happen to have one nearby as it allows the squad to attempt a deny itself rather than having to burn the Magus'
deny attempt.

Tastyfish wrote:
Also a car/van version of the Goliath was in the preview video, which might be a Venom equivalent.

I saw that, though if it is indeed a new vehicle I'd wager it is something closer to the new Ork Buggies than a Venom (Venom's 6-seater transport role is kinda filled by Rockgrinders at the moment). Paired with the Jackals I have to wonder if GW isn't planning a GSC expansion for the Speed Freaks game, since each player has what amounts to a unit of bikes and 1 vehicle.

Also a car/van version of the Goliath was in the preview video, which might be a Venom equivalent.

I'm pretty sure that our new toy will be more of the liking of a Battlewagon: check the proportions:



And:



The Neophytes looks tiny on the new one. So there may be some kind of artistic licence with the proportions, but i'm pretty sure this thing is at least as big as the Goliath, and bigger would not surprise me. Futhermore, i think the Goliath is doing well enough in the "light vehicle"category, and that we need way more some kind of big transport.

It also might be nothing, and is just a Goliath.

The guy drew the Aberrants behind the doctor model and they look like Carnifexes.

Please put spoiler tags on the pictures, they are a bit too big.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
It also might be nothing, and is just a Goliath.

The guy drew the Aberrants behind the doctor model and they look like Carnifexes.

I think those are more likely purestrains if anything. Aberrants don't have carapaces at all on their backs apart from the Hypermorph and none of them have 4 arms.

Granted, those could be something related to the Cult of the Twisted Helix. They got an icon in the 7th edition codex and a bit of fluff but never had a color scheme (Pauper Princes were similar actually - had an icon and color scheme but minimal fluff). Their specialty was genetic manipulation owing to being in control of what amounted to a pharmacy world, with lots of Aberrants and Metamorphs resulting from their tinkering. Making some proto-fex using DNA harvested from Purestrains isn't outside the realm of possibility.

I'll recognize that there was some artistic license with these illustrations, but all the models shown where clearly distinguishable and kept the general form and all the importants details. The drawing of the Nexos, will being more stocky than the model even retains the scratching on the Aquila.

We do know that there will be others unseen models, and nothing says that the Aberrants/genestealers are not a new unit, and the general shape of the vehicle has nothing to do with the Goliath: no side turret, centered main gun, different shape for the car hood, emplacement for a neophyte on the left, bigger wheels, etc.

The drawing may have some differences with the actual models, but retains all the importants details and general shape. So i definitely cannot imagine this thing not to be a new vehicle for the Cults. And furthermore, it also seems way bigger than what we do have for now.

Araablane wrote:
Question about rules, does Bestial Vigour lower the damage from Smites also?

No, it isn't a damage roll it is just lost wounds.


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GunSmith wrote:
I'll recognize that there was some artistic license with these illustrations, but all the models shown where clearly distinguishable and kept the general form and all the importants details. The drawing of the Nexos, will being more stocky than the model even retains the scratching on the Aquila.

We do know that there will be others unseen models, and nothing says that the Aberrants/genestealers are not a new unit, and the general shape of the vehicle has nothing to do with the Goliath: no side turret, centered main gun, different shape for the car hood, emplacement for a neophyte on the left, bigger wheels, etc.

The drawing may have some differences with the actual models, but retains all the importants details and general shape. So i definitely cannot imagine this thing not to be a new vehicle for the Cults. And furthermore, it also seems way bigger than what we do have for now.

The lady magus looks nothing like the one in the video so I am not sure I trust that set of art for any solid proof.

Per the GSC Facebook group

(cult ambush): "It's been completely overhauled. Essentially, you get a number of "blip tokens" (which are included with the codex) equal to the number of units you have in Cult Ambush reserves, plus one spare token for every two units in reserves (to use as "decoy tokens". After both sides have finished deploying, you get to place your tokens down anywhere on the board that is more than 9" from enemy units. At the end of any of your movement phases (including first turn) you may flip over a blip token to reveal a unit in cult ambush reserves (you choose which one, if any, appears there - if nothing appears there it's one of your "decoy" tokens). They must also be flipped if an enemy unit goes within 9" of a blip token. There are a number of mechanics that allow you to place more blip tokens down and move them."

"There are NO named characters, sadly"

"If an enemy unit moves within 9" of them, you place down the GSC unit as close as possible to the blip token.

So if a guard squad advances onto the token and surrounds it, you then place the GSC unit as close as possible (but outside of 1" of enemy units. If they move to 3" away from it, you just place it down on the token (but outside of 1" of enemy units). One model from the unit must be centered on the token if possible."

>Any confirmation of a new vehicle like a buggy being added? Not the quadbike or bikes but something akin to the goliath but smaller?
"Yes, it's a Goliath variant with fewer weapons, an open topped transport bed, that moves significantly faster (i.e. 14" rather than 10". It has a lower body as well. Apparently it was seen in an earlier trailer, but I've not seen that yet."

(faction traits) "
> One is catachan (but all models get to reroll one dice with random weapons, rather than just vehicles)
> One is Kronos.
> One is jormagordr.
> One gives 6+ fnp.
> One allows reroll charges and +1 Str on the charge if you roll more than 10" on the charge move
> The last one makes heavy weapons assault and you ignore penalties for moving and firing assault weapons.

They didn't seem too great to me."

(relics that stand out) "There's a cool one that allows for 10 shots at 18" range. It's called "Staff of the Subterran Master", and does 10 shots at S2, it has AP-1 (but -4 on 6+ to wound), and enemy units don't gain cover vs. its attacks. It's only for Magi though."

(best warlord trait) "There's one that prevents enemy units from firing overwatch at your warlord, and you roll 3d6 when charging, drop the lowest. It looks like it's meant to represent the warlord being so fast and agile you can't properly target it.

I like it because you can charge it in, tie up the units you charge and get your squishy guys in, risk free."

(stand out strat) "An agent of vect copy paste for 4CP. Represents the GSC theme of sabotage. It's really representative of pic related."

(what does the guy with the stick do?) "He gives +1 attack to all GENESTEALER CULT infantry within 6" of him. He has a hypermorph tail (I can't see it on the miniature which is confusing, but I must have missed it) and two swords which are S:user AP:0 D:1, but AP-3 on 6+ to wound. He has 3 attacks, hitting on 2+."

(rules for Brood Brothers) "Many guard units are now in the GSC dex (hydras and wyverns for example). Same restrictions as index. The GSC subfactions don't benefit Guard units either. You can't mix transports either (the Cult Chimera being the exception)." "You can't take Tempestus Scions anymore, don't know why. My mate's telling me it's because they didn't have a <REGIMENT> wildcard to swap with BROOD BROTHERS, and already had their regiment selected?"
(baneblades) "It's not as good as the Guard Baneblade, as it lacks their regimental bonuses/stratagems. Nevertheless, the Shadowsword does provide a nice counter to titanic units. It's a shame the Brood Brother bonus of +1Ld does nothing to it."

>Whose the wrangler/medic dude from the trailer? What's his point?
"He's a herder for aberrants, he's not a medic. He just gives them a bonus of your choice at the start of each turn - +2" movement, +1 attack, +1 to their feel no pain or +1 to hit. He's 43pts."

(acolytes points drop?) "Yeah, they're now 7ppm."

(brood brothers stratagems?) "There are a few stratagems for Brood Brother units. The best part about it is that there seems to be a loophole in it.

The stratagem is done at deployment, and you get to place down an extra blip marker, and put any BROOD BROTHER unit into Cult Ambush reserves, to appear at a blip later.

However, it doesn't give any restriction on what can be chosen for this - it doesn't say infantry or non-titanic. So you can Cult Ambush a fething Baneblade. For some reason your opponent couldn't see the Baneblade hiding until it gets within 9" of it.

Expect that to get FAQ'd within a week of release."

(psyker spells) "Psychic Stimulus, which allows you to target a unit within 24", which allows them to reroll advance rolls, they don't suffer penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons or advancing and firing assault weapons, and the unit can charge even if they advanced.

Psionic blast is just smite, but it targets a non-character unit of your choice within 24" and it doesn't do d6MW on an 11+.

Mental onslaught is the last one, it's a leadership roll off, if the opponent loses, they must attack last in the fight phase and take a mortal wound. Every time they lose do another roll off, they lose another mortal wound, this carries on until they beat the roll off."

(patriarch info?) "Yeah, the most interesting is a familiar relic, it allows the Patriarch to know one more psychic power, cast one more, and deny one more psychic power each turn. It's called "The Crouchling"."

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
Imperial Guard have officers in elite slots. I am sure GSC could too.

It's confirmed that all new characters are in the Elite slot

if something isn't confirmed don't say it's confirmed, that's not what that word means

Worth noting, as the person who posted this complained I reposted the info:

They can't verify if it's real and take it with tons of salt.

I never claimed it was true, I'm just sharing the info

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(cult ambush): "It's been completely overhauled. Essentially, you get a number of "blip tokens" (which are included with the codex) equal to the number of units you have in Cult Ambush reserves, plus one spare token for every two units in reserves (to use as "decoy tokens". After both sides have finished deploying, you get to place your tokens down anywhere on the board that is more than 9" from enemy units. At the end of any of your movement phases (including first turn) you may flip over a blip token to reveal a unit in cult ambush reserves (you choose which one, if any, appears there - if nothing appears there it's one of your "decoy" tokens). They must also be flipped if an enemy unit goes within 9" of a blip token. There are a number of mechanics that allow you to place more blip tokens down and move them;

Sounds plausible. Bit more reliable and closer to the feel of the previous version. Have to wonder what will happen with the Primus and Return to Shadows stratagem if such a change is accurate.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

"Yes, it's a Goliath variant with fewer weapons, an open topped transport bed, that moves significantly faster (i.e. 14" rather than 10". It has a lower body as well. Apparently it was seen in an earlier trailer, but I've not seen that yet."

The Goliath truck moves 12'' (Rockgrinder is 10''), so I wouldn't say "significantly" faster. Still, if accurate makes me happy. I love my Trucks and Rockgrinders, so another Rugged Construction hull option works for me.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(faction traits) "
> One is catachan (but all models get to reroll one dice with random weapons, rather than just vehicles)
> One is Kronos.
> One is jormagordr.
> One gives 6+ fnp.
> One allows reroll charges and +1 Str on the charge if you roll more than 10" on the charge move
> The last one makes heavy weapons assault and you ignore penalties for moving and firing assault weapons.

1. Might be Rusted Claw. They could justify higher strength from gold-plated talons and rerolls on random die could correlate with their expertise in demolition work.
2. Probably Hive Cult, since they focus more on the stolen AM side of the army and are described as being more militant.
3. Possibly Cult of the Four Armed Emperor, given they originally infested a great tunnel network. Alternatively could be Sons of Jormungandr if they want to have a direct correlation.
4. Pauper Princes. One of their fluff blurbs was having an uncanny clairvoyance. Ulthewe has a similar trait with similar justification.
6. Not sure.
7. Probably Bladed Cog. They have access to higher quality equipment than the others and possibly cybernetics.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(relics that stand out) "There's a cool one that allows for 10 shots at 18" range. It's called "Staff of the Subterran Master", and does 10 shots at S2, it has AP-1 (but -4 on 6+ to wound), and enemy units don't gain cover vs. its attacks. It's only for Magi though."

That relic was in the 7th edition codex with the same rules more or less. It's supposed to be a staff of office with a Tyranid Warrior carved on top instead, with the ability to summon various critters to fight on behalf of the bearer.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(patriarch info?) "Yeah, the most interesting is a familiar relic, it allows the Patriarch to know one more psychic power, cast one more, and deny one more psychic power each turn. It's called "The Crouchling"."

Likewise, though the Crouchling was available to a Magus as well in 7th.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(acolytes points drop?) "Yeah, they're now 7ppm."

If true, not entirely unexpected but appreciated. Generic Acolytes are 7 ppm in Kill Team which has otherwise kept itself fairly close to standard 40k in unit pricing (wargear is cheaper).

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(brood brothers stratagems?) "There are a few stratagems for Brood Brother units. The best part about it is that there seems to be a loophole in it.

The stratagem is done at deployment, and you get to place down an extra blip marker, and put any BROOD BROTHER unit into Cult Ambush reserves, to appear at a blip later.

However, it doesn't give any restriction on what can be chosen for this - it doesn't say infantry or non-titanic. So you can Cult Ambush a Baneblade. For some reason your opponent couldn't see the Baneblade hiding until it gets within 9" of it.

Expect that to get FAQ'd within a week of release."

I'm not sure if that is a loop-hole per say. One of the old formations allowed something similar (Russes and Chimeras could outflank/scout sentinels cult ambushed).

 Cephalobeard wrote:
(psyker spells) "Psychic Stimulus, which allows you to target a unit within 24", which allows them to reroll advance rolls, they don't suffer penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons or advancing and firing assault weapons, and the unit can charge even if they advanced.

Psionic blast is just smite, but it targets a non-character unit of your choice within 24" and it doesn't do d6MW on an 11+.

Mental onslaught is the last one, it's a leadership roll off, if the opponent loses, they must attack last in the fight phase and take a mortal wound. Every time they lose do another roll off, they lose another mortal wound, this carries on until they beat the roll off.

Basically the same as what the powers did in 7th (save Psionic Blast, but the old version was a small blast which has generally translated into D3 hits so more or less a direct port with mortal wounds replacing the old S5 AP3 profile).

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I have mixed feelings about these. Some seem specific enough (Locus and medic's effects) but others seem a bit much like educated guesses (lot of stuff pulled directly from the 7th edition book). Still, very much appreciated in any case!