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Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/30 15:42:01


Post by: Strat_N8


This thread is intended to serve as a general overview of the Genestealer Cult faction in 8th edition and a place to discuss tactics as it relates to the faction as a whole under the new rules. May it prove useful to all aspiring Primus' out there!

The current FAQ for the army may be found here, under Xenos 2 in the Warhammer: 40,000 tab. I will attempt to keep this post updated as things are adjusted.

Army Specific Rules:

- Unquestioning Loyalty: Compared to 7th, this rule is weaker in that it now triggers on a 4+ rather than automatically and the model taking the hit is slain outright rather than suffering the wound in place of the character. However, no other army has a similar rule as universally available which makes it fairly strong in the context of 8th edition, adding an extra layer of defense for our characters and their valuable effect auras.

- Cult Ambush: The ambush table was tweaked a bit to accommodate for the new reserve mechanics, though it is now available to all GSC infantry to use for deployment and any result but a 3 will allow the ambusher to attempt a charge. New table is as follows:
1 - Your opponent picks two table edges and you roll off to see which one your forces will arrive on. Must stay more than 9'' away from enemy models. One advantage this one has over result 2 is that, since you roll the die for where the models arrive, you can use a command point to reroll the result if needed.
2 - You pick two table edges and your opponent rolls off to see which one your forces will arrive on. Must stay more than 9'' away from enemy models. Keep in mind, since your opponent makes the roll they can elect to spend a command point for a reroll to try to send your units to the less advantageous edge.
3 - Unit can be placed anywhere more than 12'' away from enemy models or 9'' if they cannot be seen. Probably the worst result on the table since it is the one of the few (if not only) deployments in the game with such a large range band.
4 - Unit can be placed anywhere more than 9'' away from enemy models. Simple but effective.
5 - Unit can be placed anywhere more than 9'' away from enemy models. The unit may choose to make an out of sequence shooting attack for free or make a free D6'' move. Useful for both melee and shooting squads, probably the best result overall on the new table.
6 - Unit can be placed anywhere more than 9'' away from enemy models. The unit may make a full move after being set up. Almost the same effect as the 7th edition version, though since it is a move after placement it can allow for some fun shenanigans such as picking up the Relic out of ambush and running off with it in one fell swoop.

- Brood Brothers: A lengthy rule that basically allows the Genestealer Cult to bring Astra Militarum allies in matched play despite not sharing any faction keywords. A Genestealer Cult player is allowed to bring 1 AM detachment for each GSC detachment, ignoring the AM units when choosing your faction (basically meaning you ignore the Imperial keyword and the lack of shared keywords between the two factions). All units within this detachment replace their <regiment> keyword with Brood Brothers (FAQ), meaning they do not benefit from AM regimental traits and cannot take named characters, but can still use generic AM relics, stratagems, and warlord traits if desired.

- Broodmind Discipline: As with the other psychic disciplines in the indexes, the Broodmind Discipline was reduced from 6 powers to 3 powers. While it is all but assured the missing 3 will return when the codex is released, the powers we kept are thankfully quite strong and we can now pick which power is desired rather than having to roll for them.

1. Mass Hypnosis: A devastating debuff power. Mass Hypnosis prevents its victim from firing overwatch, forces them to swing last in combat, and puts a -1 to hit penalty on all of their attacks (ranged or melee).
2. Mind Control: More or less the same as before, though now it works against vehicle models in addition to infantry and monsters. If manifested it rolls 3D6 against the target's leadership and if the result is equal to or exceeds the leadership that model may make a shooting attack or make a single close combat attack against a target of your choice. While being able to use the foe's own models against them is always powerful, the power of Mind Control goes up significantly the more guns the victim has to shoot and is especially dangerous to models carrying plasma weapons since they can be overcharged in hopes of slaying the model outright with an overheat.
3. Might from Beyond: When successfully cast the target Genestealer Cult Infantry unit gains +1 strength and +1 attack. Simple, but deadly when paired with the already excellent melee capabilities of most GSC infantry.

Units Overviews:

HQ:

Patriarch:
Spoiler:
Roughly analogous to the Tyranid Broodlord, Patriarchs combined premier melee capability with speed and army support. Each has a suitably monstrous stat line with WS: 2+, S6, T5, 6 attacks, and 6 wounds backed by a 4+ armor save. In addition, they share the Lightning Reflexes rule with their Purestrain kin, granting them the ability to charge after advancing and a 5+ invulnerable save. When combined with the Patriarch's already high innate movement speed, this grants an impressive average threat range of 19’’. Once in combat, the Patriarch’s aptly named Monstrous Rending Claws grant the ability to reroll all failed wound rolls and excellent armor piercing capability with D3 damage per blow, with 6’s to wound being resolved at a staggering AP-6 and a damage characteristic of 3. Outside of its direct offensive capabilities, the Patriarch also acts as a psyker with a single psychic power from the Broodmind discipline. Furthermore, they also posses two aura effects, one that grants friendly GSC Infantry moral immunity and a second which provides a +1 to hit effect for Purestrain Genestealers.

While powerful, all of these features come at a rather premium cost. The Patriarch is the second most expensive model in the army and despite its impressive statline is fairly fragile for its cost.


Magus:
Spoiler:

The Magus serves as a budget psyker and a potent psychic defense battery thanks to his Spiritual Leader ability, which allows all friendly GSC models (including vehicles) within range to attempt to deny a hostile psychic power targeting them as though they were psykers themselves. This is especially helpful against mass Smite and similar offensive powers, as it reduces the denial burden on the Magus and can potential result in more deny attempts than the opponent has casters. In addition, the Magus is fairly competent in melee if needed with a WS of 3+, 3 attacks, and a S5 staff with AP-1 and D3 damage per blow. He also carries an Autopistol which can be used to plink wounds away here and there.


Primus:
Spoiler:
Whereas the Magus is a budget psyker, the Primus at first glance appears to be a budget fighter with an elite WS of 2+, four attacks, and a choice between a bonesword or a special rending claw that wounds non-vehicles on a 2+. However, his true power is in the Cult Demagogue and Meticulous Planner abilities. The first is a replacement for his old Zealot bubble, now a flat +1 to hit for all friendly GSC units in range during the fight phase, allowing even lowly Neophytes hit most things on a 3+ and practically everything else in the army to hit on a 2+. The second ability is slightly more situational but still very useful, allowing the Primus to reroll the result on the Cult Ambush table for himself and attending squad if he elects to set up in Ambush.



Acolyte Iconward:
Spoiler:
The Iconward got quite a bit cheaper than his 7th edition counterpart and more or less acts similar to before, though they traded their formation bonuses for the ability for friendly GSC units to reroll failed moral checks within his area of effect. He also still confers a 6+ FNP-like ability to nearby units which adds a bit of extra durability and offers a save against mortal wounds. Besides being the cheapest HQ choice for filling out detachments, the Iconward's buffs are extremely helpful for any footslogging units and the Iconward himself can contribute in combat with 4 Rending Claw attacks.


Genestealer Familiars:
Spoiler:
Familiars have changed rather significantly compared to their 7th edition selves. Now, instead of being a marker indicating extra attacks for their master, they are full fledged models in their own right that may be purchased for either of the psykers, forming a character "unit" with their master. While they lost their rending claws, they still provide 2 additional attacks and grant a once per game ability to cast an additional psychic power after successfully manifesting a power. Critically, the Familiar's toughness is not used when rolling to wound against their host and any casualties are ignored for the purposes of moral, making them ideal for taking a hit if Unquestioning Loyalty fails to intercept it. They are a touch expensive for what they do however, so should generally be used as filler or in power level games where they are free.


ELITES:

Aberrants:
Spoiler:
Aberrants are perhaps one of the biggest beneficiaries of the changes wrought by 8th, no longer suffering from low initiative or the instant death rule. While Aberrants lost their FNP and Stubborn abilities they gained the Bestial Vigor rule which reduces the damage suffered by enemy attacks by 1 to a minimum of 1. This makes Aberrants unusually resilient against common 2 damage weapons such as overcharged plasma or autocannons compared to other multi-wound infantry, though they are still fairly vulnerable to small arms fire due to their 5+ armor. Offensively, each model is equipped with Rending Claws and either a Power Hammer or Power Pick and may mix weapons in the squad.

- Power Hammers: While they do suffer from a -1 to hit modifier, Power Hammers are one of the hardest hitting weapons in-army with S10, AP-3, and a fixed 3 damage per blow. This makes Aberrants with Hammers the best weapon in faction for demolishing T8+ models while offering consistent damage against any multi-wound target. By and large, these will be your go-to weapon for Aberrant squads.
- Power Picks: Power Picks unfortunately lost a lot in the change over from 7th, with their sole advantage over Hammers being a lack of any to-hit modifiers and lower cost. Generally speaking, the main role for Aberrants with Picks is taking hits on behalf of their more damaging brethren, keeping the more expensive hammers swinging for as long as possible. They can do well against armored infantry but lack the volume of attacks to deal with larger units.


Metamorphs:
Spoiler:
Metamorphs unfortunately took a fairly heavy nerf in the transition to 8th in the form of both a cost increase and an overhaul in how their weapons work. Apart from the Metamorph whip, their weapons lost the passive bonuses they used to confer and instead act as weapons of their own with their old bonuses built in. Unfortunately, all of them are fairly expensive and lack any form of armor piercing capability which makes them overlap with the free attack provided by the Cult Knives carried by Acolytes. Weapons are as follows:

- Metamorph Whip: With the loss of the Initiative stat the new version of the Metamorph whip grants the ability to swing even if the bearer is slain, allowing a bit more flexibility in activation order and insurance against foes with "always strike first" abilities. Cheapest weapon option and the only one that benefits Rending Claw attacks.
- Metamorph Talon: The Talon now grants a +1 to hit rolls made when attacking with it, allowing the barer to hit on a 2+ without the aid of a Primus at the cost of no AP.
- Metamorph Claw: The most heavily nerfed of all three weapons, partially due to a heavy price increase and partially due to the new damage table in 8th. While S6 was the golden benchmark of utility in 7th (being able to wound most infantry on 2's and glance most vehicles on 4's), in 8th it is now only appreciably better than S5 against T3 and T5 models. Lack of any benefits beyond the enhanced strength is further compounded by the Claw replacing both the model's Metamorph weapon and Rending Claw, making it far less flexible than the other weapons.

Other Equipment:
- Bonesword: Unique to the Metamorph leader, a Bonesword offers an additional weapon with AP-2 to supplement the lack of AP on the Leader's Metamorph weapon.
-Hand Flamer: Any Metamorph may exchange their default Autopistols for a Handflamer, trading range for D3 shots that automatically hit. While the rate of fire increase and automatic hits are nice, each is fairly expensive which makes spamming them somewhat unappealing given the already high cost of the squad.

Like Acolytes, one model in the unit may be equipped with a Cult Icon to gain the ability to reroll to-hit rolls of 1 in combat. This has some synergy with the Metamorph Talons but the overall smaller maximum squad size limits its efficiency somewhat.


Purestrain Genestealers:
Spoiler:
Purestrains are more or less the same as their 7th edition selves with a few new abilities replacing their old universal special rules and having a slight cost increase compared to before (changed a couple times via FAQ). In place of the old Fleet rule, they gained the same advance and assault ability as the Patriarch and enjoy the same high base movement of 8''. In addition, when the unit contains 10 or more models they gain an additional attack per model thanks to their Flurry of Claws ability. These traits combine to make Genestealers a highly effective problem solver unit, as they have the speed to catch most things and the volume of attacks to blend infantry and threaten just about anything else.

Like their Hive Fleet cousins, Purstrains may take Purestrain Talons (aka Scything Talons) at no additional cost (FAQ). While the talons lack the AP of the Rending Claws, they do allow the Genestealer to reroll hit rolls of 1 which can be of help against hoard models with poor armor and daemons who's invulnerable saves ignore the AP on the Rending Claws anyway.


TROOPS:

Neophyte Hybrids:
Spoiler:
Neophytes serve as basic grunt troops and are the most flexible infantry unit in-faction due to their plethora of weapon options. Each retains their autoguns and autopistols (or the las-equivalent) from before and may exchange the former for the newly improved shotguns which are now S4 at half range (6'') and may be fired even if the unit advanced. In addition, the special and mining weapon arsenals have been tinkered with:

- Flamers: As with all other template weapons, Flamers now get D6 shots that automatically hit. They have rather low range, but pair nicely with Shotguns as a means of spamming mobile S4 shots.
- Grenade Launcher: An excellent multi-role special weapon that offers either D6 S3 shots for hunting infantry or a single S6 AP-1 D3 damage shot if faced with a tougher target. In general is more effective as an anti-infantry weapon but the multi-damage option is nice against heavy infantry.
-Webber: An unfortunate casualty of the new AP system, the Webber changed from being able to use the strength of the target as its AP value to being able to wound against either the target's strength or toughness (whichever is lower). Relatively low rate of fire paired with short range and no AP makes it fairly unattractive compared to its cousins, though it has niche use against bike or cavalry models which tend to have +1 toughness but unaltered strength.
- Heavy Stubber: Mostly unaltered from 7th, though the new rules for Heavy Weapons means it is far more useful on the move compared to before. Acts as another source of S4 shooting for killing infantry with fairly good reach. Ideal for a cheap dedicated infantry hunting squad or objective sitters.
- Mining Laser: While lacking the reach of a full Lascannon and being capped at D3 damage instead of the full D6, the Mining Laser compensates with its ability to be deployed in pairs, allowing for more S9 AP-3 shots per squad than its military cousin. The lower maximum damage makes them better suited for harassing multi-wound infantry than heavy vehicles, but they can be used to burn off wounds here and there in support of more dedicated armor crackers.
- Seismic Cannon: Probably the most altered weapon in the Neophyte's arsenal, the Seismic Cannon had its long range profile reduced from S5 to S3 and its close range profile reduced from S8 to S6 in the edition change but gained 2 damage per shot on its close range profile and retained its ability to ignore most armor on to-wound rolls of 6+. Despite the loss of strength, the new Seismic Cannon is still an effective tool against infantry (particularly heavy infantry) that pairs especially well with grenade launchers due to similar weapon profiles.

Neophytes also retained their ability to form a single special weapon team and equip the corresponding weaponry (Heavy Bolter, Mortar, Autocannon, Lascannon, Missile Launcher) in place of taking any mining weapons. All weapon team options possess good reach and are ideal for backfield objective squads/ambush enablers, though as they are limited to 1-per squad they don't have the volume of fire that the shorter ranged mining weapons offer.

Finally, one Neophyte may take a Cult Icon and the Neophyte leader also retained their unique pistol and melee weapon options and gained the ability to take an Autogun (though oddly not a Shotgun, maybe the Chaos Cultist leader stole it?). In general, the leader melee weapons are better suited to Shotgun squads as there is a greater likelihood they will come into play.

- Chainsword/Cult Knife: Cheap and chipper basic melee weapon that provides an extra attack.
- Power Maul: Adds a much appreciated strength boost to the Leader and a bit of AP capability, making him a credible threat to most infantry at the cost of fewer attacks.
- Power Pick: The Power Pick no longer suffers from unwieldy and offers good AP and D3 damage but lacks a strength boost which means the poor S3 Leader will have difficulty wounding the multi-wound models it is designed to hurt.
- Bolt Pistol: Basically a boost to S4 for the Leader's pistol for a point more. Not a must have, but makes sense for shotgun squads and is a good place to dump odd leftover points.
- Web Pistol: While it has the same ability as the larger Webber at -1 strength, the Web Pistol is more valuable than its larger kin thanks to it effectively upgrading the Leader's pistol to D3 shots instead of 1. Again not a must have, but a reasonable option for some extra firepower with a situational ability.


Acolyte Hybrids:
Spoiler:
Compared to the expendable melee hoard unit they were in 7th, the new Acolytes are less effective as a source of mass rending attacks due to a combination of increased cost per model and the loss of the extra attacks from multiple melee weapons they had in 7th (replaced with a single bonus attack from their Cult Knives). Instead, Acolytes are now much more optimized as special weapon teams as all of their unique mining weapons were given an extensive overhaul and feature S8, very good AP, and multiple damage. This makes Acolyte squads so equipped ideal for armor cracking while still being able to contribute against opposing infantry.

- Demolition Charges: The cheapest of the four special weapon options, each Demolition Charge is effectively a single-use battlecannon with better AP and the Assault type for a very modest cost, making them the ideal weapon for smaller disposable squads. They are effective against most target types but especially excel against single-model units where their volume of dice coupled with multiple damage allows for greater overall damage potential than against single wound infantry. Due to the short range, Demolition Charge equipped units benefit enormously from a transport of some sort to reliably deliver them into range.
- Rock Saw: Rock Saws are the cheapest and most general purpose of the three melee weapons. Being what amounts to a chainfist without any to-hit penalty, they are designed to simply put damage on targets without frills or fuss. Of the three weapons, they are the best suited for chopping up multi-wound infantry due to their combination of accuracy and consistent 2 damage per blow backed by AP-4, but can threaten larger targets when used en-mass.
- Rock Cutter: The Rock Cutter shares most of the characteristics of the Rock Saw but with the drawback of a -1 to hit penalty (added via FAQ). In exchange, each time a non-vehicle model is damaged by the cutters they may make a D6 roll against the target's remaining wounds. If the roll exceeds the wound remaining the target is simply slain outright. This makes the Cutters an extremely deadly tool for character assassination and monster hunting, though they are slightly less efficient against other targets due to the aforementioned to-hit penalty. Due to their ability, they will generally want to swing after the other models in the unit to make hitting the kill threshold easier.
- Rock Drill: The most expensive of the three melee weapons, Rock Drills have the lowest initial damage per swing but make up for it with their ability to inflict multiple mortal wounds upon successfully wounding a target (initially on a 2+, then a 3+, 4+, 5+, and finally a 6+). This makes them especially well suited for dealing with high health targets and models with invulnerable saves, as they only require 1 wound to slip by in order to start the mortal wound chain and grind the target down.

Other equipment:
-Bonesword: Only available to the Acolyte Leader, the Bonesword provides a fixed AP-2 weapon for a relatively low cost. It is a bit redundant with Rending Claws but is slightly better at slicing through single wound 3+ save models due to the better AP and doesn't replace any existing weapons.
-Bonesword/Lash Whip: Same weapon as above, but paired with a Lash Whip which allows the Acolyte Leader to swing even if slain.
-Hand Flamer: Any model may exchange their default Autopistols for a Handflamer, trading range for D3 shots that automatically hit. While a bit expensive, the overall lower cost of the Acolytes makes them a bit more attractive as a pseudo-special weapon than on Metamorphs.

One Acolyte may also opt to take a Cult Icon for rerolls of 1's to hit in combat for the unit. While especially useful under the guidance of a nearby Primus, the relatively high cost of the Icon means it is more efficient for larger units than with smaller ones.


FAST:

Cult Sentinels (Armored and Scout):
Spoiler:
Sentinels are the sole Fast Attack choice available to the Genestealer Cults and regardless of version provide relatively cheap heavy weapon platforms. The primary difference between the two models is the Armored Sentinel sports T6 (FAQ), a rare-in-faction 3+ save and the ability to take an equally rare Plasma Cannon while the Scout Sentinel has a 4+ save and T5 in exchange for +1'' of movement and the ability to make a free move before the first battle round. This means Scout Sentinels will generally be playing more aggressively forward in support of ambushers while Armored Sentinels will generally be lurking near the backfield to provide fire support.

Weaponry includes:
- Heavy Flamers: Ideal for Scout Sentinels which will generally be up in the opponent's lines in support of ambushers as it is the least expensive weapon option and the only weapon that doesn't care about movement. Less ideal for Armored Sentinels due to very short range.
- Multi-Laser: Anti-infantry weapon with good range and the cheapest non-flamer weapon option for either Sentinel variant.
- Autocannon: Mid-priced weapon good against multi-wound infantry and light vehicles. While it is one of the more flexible guns in terms of targets, it is a bit redundant if taking multiple Goliath Trucks unless the goal is to put as many autocannons on the table as possible.
- Plasma Cannon: Same cost and strength as the Autocannon but with better AP in exchange for lower damage and D3 shots instead of a fixed 2. Can overcharge like other plasma weapons for +1 Strength and Damage but destroys the Sentinel if any 1's are rolled to-hit. As the Genestealer Cult lacks any means of modifying shooting rolls, this should only be done if the Sentinel is likely going to die anyway.
- Lascannon: The premier long range anti-tank weapon everyone knows and loves/loathes. Ideal for a back-field Armored Sentinel due to its reach.
- Missile Launcher: Effectively an up scaled Grenade Launcher with both an anti-infantry and anti-tank firing mode for the same price as the Lascannon.

In addition, both Sentinels have the option to take a Hunter Killer Missile and a Sentinel Chainsaw - the former a single use anti-tank shot and the latter a melee weapon that upgrades the Sentinel's close combat attacks with AP -1.


DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:

Note: Both dedicated transports have the same damage table with Ballistic Skill, Movement, and Attacks characteristics being affected.

Cult Chimera:
Spoiler:
While being mostly identical to its counterparts within the Astra Militarum, the Chimera serves a valuable role as assault transport for the Genestealer Cults thanks to its generous transport capacity of 12 models and copious amounts of anti-infantry firepower to clear a path for its cargo. In addition to its Lasgun array, the Chimera must take two heavy weapons for its turret and hull mounts. For Genestealer Cults this almost always means twin heavy flamers as the vehicle is mainly going to be delivering units to the front lines rather than sitting back lending fire support, making the automatic hits of the flamers more useful than the range offered by the Heavy Bolter or Multi-laser options. In addition, the Chimera may take a Hunter Killer Missile for a single use anti-tank shot and/or a Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter for added infantry clearance capability.


Goliath Truck:
Spoiler:
What the Chimeria is to assault troops the Goliath is to ranged ones, thanks to its Open Topped rule allowing its 10 passengers to contribute their shooting while embarked. The Goliath itself comes equipped with a Twin-Autocannon and Heavy Stubber, giving it reasonable multi-purpose firepower and range. While defensively the Goliath lacks the toughness and armor of its military counterpart (T6 and 4+ save), its Rugged Construction special rule grants it the ability to negate unsaved wounds on a 6+ (including mortal wounds) and the range of its weaponry paired with a generally less aggressive mission allows it to sit back at a safe distance. The sole upgrade option available to a Goliath Truck is the Demolition Cache, effectively arming it with reusable Demolition Charges while a unit is embarked. They are best taken on Trucks that are dedicated to transporting Acolyte demolition teams for drive-by bombings due to the very short range and damage saturation with the passenger's own demolition charges.



HEAVY:

Goliath Rockgrinder:
Spoiler:
The Goliath Rockgrinder is a flexible vehicle that can perform multiple roles depending on its armaments and the overall army composition, but in general serves a melee-oriented vehicle with six attacks to start with and a modest transport capacity of 6 infantry models. It combines aspects of both the Chimera and standard Goliath Truck in terms of durability, featuring T7 and a 4+ Save backed up by the 6+ from Rugged Construction. As with the Goliath Truck and Chimera, the Rockgrinder's damage table reduces its Movement, Ballistic Skill, and Attacks characteristics once it reaches half health, but thankfully its attacks characteristic never decays lower than D3 which allows it to still get some work done in melee even on its last legs. Unlike its dedicated transport counterpart, the Rockgrinder has several ranged weapon options to choose from in addition to its Heavy Stubber.

- Clearance Incinerator: The Clearance Incinerator is effectively a heavy flamer with 12'' range and the Assault type. It is ideal for an aggressive Rockgrinder intent on getting itself or its cargo into combat as quickly as possible since they can move at top speed while still being able to fire to full effect. Being a weapon that automatically hits its targets also makes it the sole weapon option that is unaffected by the Rockgrinder's damage table.
- Heavy Seismic Cannon: The cheapest weapon available to the Rockgrinder post Chapter Approved. Like its man-portable counterpart, the Heavy Seismic Cannon features the ability to ignore most armor on to-wound rolls of 6+ and two profiles depending on range. At 12''-24'' it is Heavy 4 S4 with AP -1 and 2 damage per shot while at 12'' and closer it morphs to a much more scary Heavy 2 S8 AP -2 gun with 3 damage per shot.
- Heavy Mining Laser: Effectively a Lascannon in all but name and with slightly less range. While it suffers from being a single-shot weapon on a relatively low ballistic skill platform, the Heavy Mining Laser is the longest ranged weapon available to the Rockgrinder which may be useful for units operating in a counter-assault role in the mid-field.
- Demolition Cache: Optional weapon that may be taken in addition to one of the three heavy mining weapons above. As the Rockgrinder will generally want to get close to foes the Cache has more utility than on the more stand-off Goliath Truck but has the slight drawback of more limited passenger options to activate it due to the Rockgrinder's reduced carrying capacity.

Regardless of ranged weaponry the Rockgrinder's main armament is the extremely unsubtle Drilldozer blade at the front of the vehicle, which adds an additional D3 attacks on the charge and hits at S8 AP-2 with D3 damage. While effective against both infantry and larger targets, the Rockgrinder's (admittedly better-than-usual-for-a-vehicle) WS of 5+ means it really wants a Primus nearby to maximize its potential.


Cult Leman Russ:
Spoiler:
Unlike the Cult Chimera and Sentinels which both have unique functions and interactions with the GSC army, the Cult Russ is more or less identical to its Imperial counterpart as a mobile firebase. As such, if taking more than 1-2 it may be more efficient to simply use the Brood Brothers rule to take an AM Spearhead detachment as the individual tanks are both slightly cheaper and have access to force multipliers their cult cousins lack. Regardless, the Cult Leman Russ offers a blend of durability and firepower, having the greatest concentration of heavy weaponry to be found on a single model in the army and being the sole T8 model available innately to the cults. Its Grinding Advance ability now allows it to fire its main turret-mounted cannon twice if it moves at half speed or remains stationary. (FAQ). Each tank comes equipped with one of the following turret weapons:

- Battle Cannon: In most instances this will be the go-to gun option unless one has something more specific in mind, as it offers the highest strength and flexibility of the three weapons at the lowest cost.
- Eradicator Nova Cannon: The Eradicator trades the strength of the other turret mounts for the ability to ignore cover, making it ideal for rooting marines and similar high save models out of cover in hard to reach places.
- Exterminator Autocannon: Effectively the same armament as a Goliath Truck with the ability to fire twice due to Grinding Advance and on a more durable platform. Has some merit if spamming autocannons but otherwise doesn't offer anything unique.
- Vanquisher Battle Cannon: A variant of the battle cannon that trades rate of fire for range and more reliable damage. As it shares the same strength as the standard cannon (FAQ), it is probably better to just take the normal weapon and rely on weight of fire to inflict damage.

In addition to its turret mount, the Cult Leman Russ must take a single hull mounted weapon (Heavy Flamer/Bolter or Lascannon) and may also take a pair of sponson mounted heavy weapons, of which Multi-meltas are entirely unique to it and Plasma Cannons are shared only with Armored Sentinels.



Warlord Traits:

- Legendary Fighter: (main rulebook)
Warlord gains +1 attack on turns in which they charge. Most Genestealer Cult Characters are fairly respectable in combat so extra attacks are always welcome. Best suited to the Patriarch as he will most likely be hunting opposing characters himself and the extra attack increases the odds of getting a lethal rend.

- Inspiring Leader: (main rulebook)
Warlord grants +1 Ld. to nearby units. Not especially helpful with the Patriarch since they already confer moral immunity, but the support-minded characters can make good use from it. Especially useful for the Iconward, as the trait stacks with their moral reroll ability.

- Tenacious Survivor: (main rulebook)
Warlord gains 6+ FNP ability. More or less universally useful, though especially appreciated by a Magus or Primus Warlord as they lack invulnerable saves and in the case of the former provides a bit of protection from Perils of the Warp. Currently stacks with the Iconward's ability.

- Focus of Adoration: (Chapter Approved)
Warlord allows nearby Genestealer Cult Infantry units to perform Heroic Interventions. This has some interesting applications since it allows unengaged units to pile into a fight if the opposing charger ends their move within 3'' and per the assault rules the intervening unit cannot be chosen as targets for attack unless they were included as charge targets during the charge phase, effectively allowing for risk-free combat for the turn and leaves the victim locked down on your turn to deal with as you see fit. The biggest limitation is the short range for Heroic Interventions and relatively few things having any desire to get into combat with GSC models to begin with.

Relics:

Icon of the Cult Ascendant: (Chapter Approved)
Only available to Iconwards. Genestealer Cult Infantry units near the barer gain +1 to their Strength characteristic. Simple but effective relic that provides an additional support functionality to an Iconward and stacks nicely with Might from Beyond, allowing Acolytes to hit Strength 10 with their special weapons and Aberrants with Hammers to reach strength 12.


Stratagems:

- Return to Shadows: Cheap stratagem used at the end of the movement phase that allows a Genestealer Cults infantry unit to be removed from the table provided no enemies are within 6'' of them and they did not arrive from reserves that turn. The removed unit then returns to play next turn via Cult Ambush. The much anticipated return of the extremely useful rule from 7th, mostly unchanged from its prior self save for the added command point cost and matched play restrictions. Return to shadows adds a great deal of tactical flexibility and board control options, allowing a stranded unit to redeploy at a moment's notice, a large unit to be reallocated as the needs of the battle dictate, or a wounded character to be whisked away to safety.

- Meticulous Uprising: Cheap stratagem used before rolling on the Cult Ambush table for a unit arriving from ambush. When used, the unit rolls 2 dice for their ambush result or 3 dice if ambushing alongside a Primus. This allows for much finer control over the ambush table which makes ambushing with larger units less risky


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/30 17:44:22


Post by: Niiai


Well done. :-)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/30 17:47:17


Post by: Ecdain


just to let you know you have the "magus" written as "magnus" not a huge deal at all just thought you might wanna know the primarch has snuck his way into your hive xD


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/30 23:03:46


Post by: Hoodwink


Also of note, unless I somehow missed a FAQ or errata, the Rock Drill begins it's mortal wound rolling on a 2+ and goes up rather than starting at a 4+.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 00:13:29


Post by: Asmodas


Big thumbs up for this StratN8


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 00:16:07


Post by: Strat_N8


Ecdain wrote:just to let you know you have the "magus" written as "magnus" not a huge deal at all just thought you might wanna know the primarch has snuck his way into your hive xD


Hoodwink wrote:Also of note, unless I somehow missed a FAQ or errata, the Rock Drill begins it's mortal wound rolling on a 2+ and goes up rather than starting at a 4+.


Not sure how I missed those... Both errors have been corrected, thanks for pointing them out!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 02:32:50


Post by: Hoodwink


Tyranids codex is announced to be released before the end of November. Is GSC going to be included or a separate codex?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 11:19:49


Post by: Niiai


Hoodwink wrote:
Tyranids codex is announced to be released before the end of November. Is GSC going to be included or a separate codex?


Ecstremly unlikly.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 12:34:57


Post by: Strat_N8


Hoodwink wrote:
Tyranids codex is announced to be released before the end of November. Is GSC going to be included or a separate codex?


They will be a separate codex. While both armies have the Tyranid faction keyword, Genestealer Cult units lack the secondary <Hive Fleet> keyword that Tyranid-specific units have and (more importantly) are listed as their own faction on GW's website. That said, it will probably still be worth picking up for ally purposes and some of their Stratagems might be useable with Cult units too.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 13:42:12


Post by: Kroem


Nice guide! I don't play Genestealer Cultists but enjoy reading evaluations of other armies, especially the cool ones.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 15:36:13


Post by: Caspian89


Really appreciate the time and effort that went into that primer. Enjoyable read. I'm furiously painting up my army and getting a few games in now and then. This primer is helpful in planning my future purchases.

Looking forward to any new rules we might see in Chapter Approved.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/08/31 19:13:26


Post by: Hoodwink


(Ignore, missed a rule)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/01 14:27:07


Post by: RIPferdy


Starting up a cultist army! Where is the best place to look to see what I can take in a AM detachment?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/01 14:49:15


Post by: the_scotsman


RIPferdy wrote:
Starting up a cultist army! Where is the best place to look to see what I can take in a AM detachment?


Index: Imperium 2?

Or wait for the Astra Militarum codex in September/October.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/01 17:53:51


Post by: Caspian89


I've been watching battle reports of various armies, trying to get a sense of armies different strengths and weaknesses. I've heard a few people say that they employ some novel Cult Ambush tactics when playing and I'd be interested to hear more about that directly from players. Rather than creating a sort of gun-line with Neophytes and Tanks and then ambushing your melee units as close as possible you, instead, could put your Genestealers, Acolytes and Aberrant units inside Chimeras/Goliath/Rockgrinders and ambush your Neophytes as needed, usually inside some nice cover. This allows you to lay down a bunch of small-arms fire and a few quasi-Lascannon (aka. Mining Laser) shots to soften tougher units before your hard hitting, but glass-jawed, melee units get to them. This tactic, I assume, also is quite confusing to the opponent who now wants to deal with what is very close them (Neophytes) but is a much lower threat than what is about to hurtle into their ranks (Genestealers/Rock Drills). Rapid firing Neophytes are a bit worse than Guardsmen with orders but still probably no slouches. If you bring those Neophyte squads in with a Primus then, after helping with the ambush roll, he moves off to give his buff aura to the incoming melee units.

It seems that the Rockgrinder is a particularly good model, being a transport and can contribute quite a bit of damage if a Primus is around to buff it's WS rolls.

Maybe a few Lascannon Sentinels stay back and provide support fire against tougher units not engaged.

Does anyone have experience trying this? I have not seen it or tried it myself.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/03 15:42:36


Post by: Strat_N8


RIPferdy wrote:Starting up a cultist army! Where is the best place to look to see what I can take in a AM detachment?


Welcome! Besides the aforementioned Imperial 2 index, I found this thread to be rather insightful. It is written with pure AM in mind (thus without consideration for the strong melee presence we have), but there are things that can be learned from it.


Caspian89 wrote: Rather than creating a sort of gun-line with Neophytes and Tanks and then ambushing your melee units as close as possible you, instead, could put your Genestealers, Acolytes and Aberrant units inside Chimeras/Goliath/Rockgrinders and ambush your Neophytes as needed, usually inside some nice cover.

Does anyone have experience trying this? I have not seen it or tried it myself.


I've used this tactic before and it offers good flexibility compared to all-mech or all foot + ambushers. The main advantage of using Neophytes for ambushers is none of the results on the Cult Ambush table are entirely bad for them due to their ranged weaponry (the worst result still puts them in rapid fire range) and ambushing allows them to deploy in larger squads than if they were transport-bound. On the melee side of things, transports offer protection and can soak overwatch on behalf of their cargo once it has been delivered (or in the case of the Rockgrinder can contribute themselves).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/24 20:40:57


Post by: N.I.B.


Brace for a Tyranid/Cult curve ball;

Outrider
Hive Tyrant with wings, rending, stranglethorn

6x Hive Crones

2x Biovores
1x Biovore

Supreme Command
5x Magus
1x Familiar

Brigade
3x Magus
3x10 Neophytes

Karl is currently Sweden's #1 ranked 40K player, usually playing nids and/or cult. He's had success with this list in the recent ETC and also grabbed 2nd place at a major ITC tournament. He's dropped the Familiar and the Stranglethorn cannon since ETC.

You can read about it here: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53497/magos-crone-spam


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/20 23:24:11


Post by: Amishprn86


 N.I.B. wrote:
Brace for a Tyranid/Cult curve ball;

Outrider
Hive Tyrant with wings, rending, stranglethorn

6x Hive Crones

2x Biovores
1x Biovore

Supreme Command
5x Magus
1x Familiar

Brigade
3x Magus
3x10 Neophytes

Karl is currently Sweden's #1 ranked 40K player, usually playing nids and/or cult. He's had success with this list in the recent ETC and also grabbed 2nd place at a major ITC tournament. He's dropped the Familiar and the Stranglethorn cannon since ETC.

You can read about it here: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53497/magos-crone-spam


This is very funny, i literally was looking at starting GSC and wanted to know if Magus spam was a thing, it looks good along with Nids, but i was thinking a different nid list to go with it.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/20 23:42:27


Post by: Kill Team Blitz


A am starting genestealer cult where should I start?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/21 00:40:14


Post by: Strat_N8


 Amishprn86 wrote:

This is very funny, i literally was looking at starting GSC and wanted to know if Magus spam was a thing, it looks good along with Nids, but i was thinking a different nid list to go with it.


Yeah, the Broodmind discipline is quite strong and the Magus himself is fairly good for Smite spam and especially countering opposing Smite spam thanks to their passive buff.


Kill Team Blitz wrote:
A am starting genestealer cult where should I start?


Currently the best place to start is the Deathwatch:Overkill boxed game. It has a good selection of miniatures including almost all of our HQ options (just missing an Iconward) and three troop units so you can start with a battalion. The Deathwatch half can either be kept for use with the game itself (it is surprisingly fun in its own right) or sold/traded to recoup some of the cost. After Overkill, I'd probably look towards picking up a box of Genestealers (giving you 10 in total) and a box of Acolytes to build special weapons to add into the squads from Overkill. A Goliath or two are also nice, giving transport options and some extra autogun neophytes if you leave the vehicle crew off.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/26 09:02:51


Post by: C4790M


Has anyone come up with cheap alternatives to the magus model? I want to try the spam list but don't feel like buying a bunch of broodcovens


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/26 12:36:12


Post by: Amishprn86


I was thinking about https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Empire-Battle-Wizards

Its 2 models that are close enough, especially when you had GSC heads


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/26 13:12:08


Post by: Strat_N8


 Amishprn86 wrote:
I was thinking about https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Empire-Battle-Wizards

Its 2 models that are close enough, especially when you had GSC heads


There is also a new 4-pack version that is a bit cheaper per model: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Collegiate-Arcane-Mystic-Battle-Wizards. Also the push-fit High Elf mage from the old Warhammer starter set/Spire of Dawn box would make a good basis for a Magus, just swap the head and it is good to go. Should have a fairly plentiful supply on the second hand market too.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/09/26 13:14:52


Post by: Amishprn86


 Strat_N8 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
I was thinking about https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Empire-Battle-Wizards

Its 2 models that are close enough, especially when you had GSC heads


There is also a new 4-pack version that is a bit cheaper per model: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Collegiate-Arcane-Mystic-Battle-Wizards. Also the push-fit High Elf mage from the old Warhammer starter set/Spire of Dawn box would make a good basis for a Magus, just swap the head and it is good to go. Should have a fairly plentiful supply on the second hand market too.



I did not see this, perfect thanks.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/10 00:04:09


Post by: D6Damager


So, has anyone tried to use their Astra Militarum detachment to add a Baneblade or Shadowsword? Seems like the Shadowsword could potentially 1-shot a Knight or maybe Mortarion if you get lucky on the disgustingly resilient rolls.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/11 05:14:33


Post by: ZergSmasher


I've got a friend who's trying to figure out a good pure GSC list for 8th. I'm trying to work with him to help optimize his lists, but I'm not as familiar with the army so I'm turning to this thread. In our last game, my friend was using a list like the following:
Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment:
HQ:
Patriarch
Primus
Acolyte Iconward
Troops:
3x10 Neophyte Hybrids with 2x Mining Laser, 2x Grenade Launcher
1x20 Acolyte Hybrids with banner
Elites:
1x20 Purestrain Genestealers
Fast Attack:
3x3 Scout Sentinels with Lascannons
Dedicated Transport:
3x Goliath Truck
Total 2000 points

In this game I ended up winning by a landslide with him conceding by the end of the third turn (I was running Alpha Legion CSM). He put his three Neophyte squads in the trucks to make them into mobile gun platforms, and he mostly kept the sentinels sitting still after scout moving them into better firing positions. He used Cult Ambush with the Patriarch and Purestrains coming in as one group, the Primus and Acolytes as another group, and the Iconward as a separate ambush (which he rolled poorly for). Long story short, in our game I had good bubble wrap with Chaos Cultists, which were slaughtered to a man but stalled the ambushers long enough to allow me to Smite and shoot most of them off the board in my first turn. My Alpha Legion trait meant that most of his shooting from range with the trucks and Sentinels just kept missing. I'm ultimately thinking that this was just a bad matchup for his list, but I'm asking for advice to pass on to him on how to improve his GSC lists. Is the list I just posted any good at all?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/11 06:52:22


Post by: N.I.B.


GSC has disappeared from tournaments in my region. They are so hosed by their index.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/11 23:57:05


Post by: Strat_N8


ZergSmasher wrote:
Is the list I just posted any good at all?


It has some good individual components but it suffers a bit from a lack of redundancy on the part of the melee elements and perhaps a bit too much emphasis on anti-tank overall. I'd probably look towards dropping the Patriarch and Genestealers for more Acolytes with Demolition Charges (and break the existing squad into 2 ten-strong units - adding demolition charges) or exchange the Primus and Acolyte blob for more Genestealers. In the first case the Acolytes will want to take the Goliaths to deliver their payload (Neophytes can ambush and then jump in after the Acolytes are delivered) while in the latter case the Genestealers will want to lurk in Ambush until chaff is cleared or a counter-assault threat is required. Given the amount of anti-tank in the list he might also want to consider dropping the Mining Lasers on the Neophyte squads for Seismic Cannons or Heavy Stubbers for more chaff clearing capabilities.

Also regardless he will probably want to shift the Sentinels to an Outrider detachment to earn an extra command point. If he has the book available he could also make them an Astra Militarium detachment to gain access to regiment traits (Tallaran are probably ideal - no penalty for moving and firing heavy weaponry) and relics/warlord traits.

D6Damager wrote:So, has anyone tried to use their Astra Militarum detachment to add a Baneblade or Shadowsword? Seems like the Shadowsword could potentially 1-shot a Knight or maybe Mortarion if you get lucky on the disgustingly resilient rolls.


Don't have access to one at this time, but it might be a fun addition. It is certainly a huge fire magnet if nothing else which is great for other units. I'm actually somewhat hoping Baneblades and their ilk become more popular, as they are the perfect targets for Mind Control.

 N.I.B. wrote:
GSC has disappeared from tournaments in my region. They are so hosed by their index.


Metamorphs and mass-ambushing yes, but a lot of that is also from core rule changes rather than the Index. If you look past the old 7th edition standbys I think the army as a whole has the tools and potential to be competitive with the index.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/12 13:59:16


Post by: Kandela


Can somebody help a new Genestealer Cult player out? I can't find cost for the Cult Icon in the points section. Is it simply free?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/12 14:14:55


Post by: C4790M


So what did we get out the imperial guard codex? Anything juicy? I know we can take a bunch of extra stuff that gained the AM keyword like crusaders. Think its worth it?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/12 20:48:41


Post by: gorgon


I think Tallarns are definitely interesting, with all their move-and-fire and ambush abilities.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/12 21:32:25


Post by: C4790M


I had a look through my friends codex today, one of their warlord traits specifies that the warlord + one friendly unit can advance 6" each turn. It didn't specify AM units, so there could be a spicy interaction there. Apart from that, the Tallarn ambush stratagem is solid, could use it to add 3 ambushing baneblades to the cult ambush


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 01:04:15


Post by: Strat_N8


Kandela wrote:Can somebody help a new Genestealer Cult player out? I can't find cost for the Cult Icon in the points section. Is it simply free?


The FAQ added it as a 20 point upgrade. It is a bit too expensive for smaller squads, but it is nice to have for larger units.

C4790M wrote:So what did we get out the imperial guard codex? Anything juicy? I know we can take a bunch of extra stuff that gained the AM keyword like crusaders. Think its worth it?


I haven't had a chance to look through it thoroughly, but at first glance there appears to be quite a few useful things. Part of me is curious about Bullgryns, as from what I have heard so far they are now very tough which could be helpful to supplement our assault units.

gorgon wrote:I think Tallarns are definitely interesting, with all their move-and-fire and ambush abilities.


Agreed.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 05:33:08


Post by: Kandela


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Kandela wrote:Can somebody help a new Genestealer Cult player out? I can't find cost for the Cult Icon in the points section. Is it simply free?


The FAQ added it as a 20 point upgrade. It is a bit too expensive for smaller squads, but it is nice to have for larger units.

Gotcha, thank you! Guess I should be happy now, I have exactly 20 points gap to fill it with Cult Icon for my Acolytes.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 13:03:46


Post by: Benlisted


So... With AM russes getting a huge buff in the form of grinding advance letting them fire twice, is there any faq out that adds the rule to FW and cult units? Doesn't seem any reason to deny us it frankly, and we could use some decent firepower.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 13:38:08


Post by: gorgon


 Strat_N8 wrote:
I haven't had a chance to look through it thoroughly, but at first glance there appears to be quite a few useful things. Part of me is curious about Bullgryns, as from what I have heard so far they are now very tough which could be helpful to supplement our assault units.


Yeah, I really like the idea of a tough-as-nails unit of Bullgryns stuck in to provide an anchor of sorts for all our glass hammer units.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 13:57:36


Post by: Yarium


As far as I can tell, your best choice is to play a Vanguard detachment for Genestealers, Patriarch, and Magus, and fill the rest with Astra Militarum whom do all the other stuff you need to do way better.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 14:39:09


Post by: Kandela


 Yarium wrote:
As far as I can tell, your best choice is to play a Vanguard detachment for Genestealers, Patriarch, and Magus, and fill the rest with Astra Militarum whom do all the other stuff you need to do way better.


I don't know about it really, but I like my Neophytes and Acolytes better than normal guardsmen. The only benefit over them is the fact that guard have those orders like FRFSRF. Will agree that they do Leman Russes better for instance.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 15:07:17


Post by: gorgon


My next test army has a battalion for each. Neophytes with mining lasers fill troops slots nicely.

I like having 9 CPs, especially when I can also take the Grand Strategist AM warlord trait and Kurov's Aquila relic to potentially generate more CPs every time my opponent or I use stratagems. It's nothing like the number of CPs a pure AM army can rack up, but it's a solid number.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 19:06:21


Post by: Caspian89


Does anyone know when we can expect to see an FAQ for the Astra Militarum Codex? I'm hesitant to start theory crafting until I know what restrictions we'll get to our Brood Brothers rule.

On another note...Has anyone looked into or tried any Forgeworld stuff with GSC? I'm looking at the Hades Drill Squadron and the Cyclops Demolition Vehicle. They really suit the fluff and style of the Cult. I love the idea of running my cult with a bunch of Trucks loaded up with Acoltyes and Demolition Charges, backed up by drones zooming around the table behind cover as counter-charge threats as well as anti-deep-strike buffers.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 19:19:28


Post by: Amishprn86


Im guessing Late November early December b.c chapter approve is then and they most likely will just release it at the same time, along with Eldar and Nids since tho codex's are out early/mid nov.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/13 22:40:28


Post by: Strat_N8


Benlisted wrote:So... With AM russes getting a huge buff in the form of grinding advance letting them fire twice, is there any faq out that adds the rule to FW and cult units? Doesn't seem any reason to deny us it frankly, and we could use some decent firepower.


The FAQ's so far seem to drop a week or so after the codex but with the Eldar book on the horizon they might delay it. Besides the Russes, Armored Sentinels apparently went up to T6 which would be interesting for additional armor saturation.

Caspian89 wrote:Does anyone know when we can expect to see an FAQ for the Astra Militarum Codex? I'm hesitant to start theory crafting until I know what restrictions we'll get to our Brood Brothers rule.


I don't think they will be altering the Brood Brothers rule (or at least, not in the Astra Militarum FAQ) but if they do the only thing I'd expect would be a restriction on unique models for fluff purposes (though admittedly, anything can be excused by Hypnosis and Mind Control ). If there are any changes I will update the main post accordingly when the FAQ drops.


Yarium wrote:As far as I can tell, your best choice is to play a Vanguard detachment for Genestealers, Patriarch, and Magus, and fill the rest with Astra Militarum whom do all the other stuff you need to do way better.


If you are running Astra Militarium as your primary then that is an excellent way to add some melee bite, but for a more GSC-oriented list I'm thinking the only things that are really needed from the Astra Militarium are meatshields and a sprinkling of heavy fire support. As it stands GSC runs mechanized infantry far better than the AM due to Goliaths having Open Topped, they mainly need help in the areas of attrition and long-range fire support.

Caspian89 wrote:
On another note...Has anyone looked into or tried any Forgeworld stuff with GSC? I'm looking at the Hades Drill Squadron and the Cyclops Demolition Vehicle. They really suit the fluff and style of the Cult.


Forgot about those! Did they get rules for 8th?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/14 03:07:26


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


 Strat_N8 wrote:

I don't think they will be altering the Brood Brothers rule (or at least, not in the Astra Militarum FAQ) but if they do the only thing I'd expect would be a restriction on unique models for fluff purposes (though admittedly, anything can be excused by Hypnosis and Mind Control ). If there are any changes I will update the main post accordingly when the FAQ drops.


Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.

Also this is alittle off topic but, does anyone know a good place to get Ymgarl heads in large quantities. I really like the look of them and want to use them for most of my GSC and Purestrain Genestealers going forward. However I can't seem to find a bit shop that actually has them.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/14 06:42:30


Post by: Kandela


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
 Strat_N8 wrote:

I don't think they will be altering the Brood Brothers rule (or at least, not in the Astra Militarum FAQ) but if they do the only thing I'd expect would be a restriction on unique models for fluff purposes (though admittedly, anything can be excused by Hypnosis and Mind Control ). If there are any changes I will update the main post accordingly when the FAQ drops.


Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.


That would be super cool to have separate regiment. Here's hoping that it will be useful, but thanks for the info!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/14 20:39:48


Post by: pinecone77


It might "just be me" but I forsee the GSC looking like Brood Brother AM to hold the Table, and Cultist ambushes. It seems like it would be a good "play" feel, and fairly ballenced.


I think if you want to run Russes a AM detactment is the way to go. That gives you a Tank Commander, and the improved tank abilities. Tallarn is likely the "best" but for "fluff" I really like Catacans as the "extra buffness" could come from GSC infiltration.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/15 12:08:43


Post by: Kandela


pinecone77 wrote:
It might "just be me" but I forsee the GSC looking like Brood Brother AM to hold the Table, and Cultist ambushes. It seems like it would be a good "play" feel, and fairly ballenced.


I think if you want to run Russes a AM detactment is the way to go. That gives you a Tank Commander, and the improved tank abilities. Tallarn is likely the "best" but for "fluff" I really like Catacans as the "extra buffness" could come from GSC infiltration.


I really hope it won't be just GSC for ambush and AM for everything else. That would put GSC in a weird place where people would see GSC as situational units needed to be counteracted by good AM units.
Tallarn in my opinion suits the army best - the quick, all or nothing attacks suit the guerilla theme of GSC.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/15 14:38:04


Post by: Amishprn86


 Kandela wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
It might "just be me" but I forsee the GSC looking like Brood Brother AM to hold the Table, and Cultist ambushes. It seems like it would be a good "play" feel, and fairly ballenced.


I think if you want to run Russes a AM detactment is the way to go. That gives you a Tank Commander, and the improved tank abilities. Tallarn is likely the "best" but for "fluff" I really like Catacans as the "extra buffness" could come from GSC infiltration.


I really hope it won't be just GSC for ambush and AM for everything else. That would put GSC in a weird place where people would see GSC as situational units needed to be counteracted by good AM units.
Tallarn in my opinion suits the army best - the quick, all or nothing attacks suit the guerilla theme of GSC.


I have a small GSC army (600pts) but a HUGE Nids army (15k).... Honestly tho, i think GSC should have a bit of AM in them, but i want it to be GSC AM and not real AM..... as of right now there is no reason to not take 1 Detachment of AM, they are really good and useful, they also fill a good weakness of the GSC.

Hopefully the GSC rules for those few units and their troops get a couple rules/stratagems that will change this.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/15 17:32:28


Post by: Caspian89


 Strat_N8 wrote:

Forgot about those! Did they get rules for 8th?


They did!

Forgeworld AM units that I think fit the GSC well:
Hades Drill Squadron is an Elite choice, gets to deep strike, brings along a unit of Veterans. Drill is 65 points +Veteren basic costs and special weapons costs.
It gets D6, S10, -4 AP, D3 Damage melee attacks. Against Vehicles it's D6 Damage and against Forifications it's 2D6 damage.
It has WS 3+, T7, W7 and 3+ Sv!
Seems like a no brainer given its power and its awesome fluff parallels with the RockGrinder and other industrial-equipment-made-weapon theme of the GSC models. In most ways it is superior to the Rockgrinder, except that its move is 6". mind you it can deep strike.

Cyclops Demolition Vehicle - 40 points each, Heavy Supprt. Can be grouped into a unit of 3 for detachment purposes, deployed together and can then operate independently, like Sentinels. Can also be taken as single model units if you want cheap Heavy Support slots.
10" move. Detonates at beginning of shooting (no advancing and detonating) doing 2D6 S9, AP -2, D3 Damage to each unit within D6" of it. Auto hits.
T6, W4, 3+ SV. And is a small model, shorter than a guard model so can hide more easily behind cover.
It explodes on a 3+ if reduced to 0 wounds.

I love that Cyclops Vehicle! I think it really helps fill gaps for us. It's a disposable threat that can play offense or defense.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/15 17:50:25


Post by: Kandela


What do you guys think about Chimera vs. Goliath? To be quite honest I think I like my Chimeras better with double Heavy Bolter or straight up assault loadout with double Heavy Flamer.Goliath seem fairly priced but then they are only 10 capacity (so no special characters can cart around with squad of Neophytes) and suffer a bit by having to buy Heavy Stubber, but I could be looking at them in bad light. I mean they are awesome models with a neat rule, just this capacity...


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/15 19:28:42


Post by: Caspian89


 Kandela wrote:
What do you guys think about Chimera vs. Goliath? To be quite honest I think I like my Chimeras better with double Heavy Bolter or straight up assault loadout with double Heavy Flamer.Goliath seem fairly priced but then they are only 10 capacity (so no special characters can cart around with squad of Neophytes) and suffer a bit by having to buy Heavy Stubber, but I could be looking at them in bad light. I mean they are awesome models with a neat rule, just this capacity...


Trucks with Acolytes toting Demolition Charges and a special weapon seem like a good all rounder support unit to me that do things a Chimera could not.

For Chimeras I intend to load them up with Bullgryns. I think Chimeras loaded up with 4 Bullgryn will be a better choice than Aberrants most times given their points costs. You could also go 3 Bullgryns, 1 Priest and 1 Primaris Psycher for full buffs.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/16 02:29:36


Post by: Strat_N8


Caspian89 wrote:
 Strat_N8 wrote:

Forgot about those! Did they get rules for 8th?


They did!


Very nice! I might have to order a couple Hades for use in my own army (it leans towards the industrial side). From the sounds of things it should pair well with Rock Grinders, just with a priority for heavy vehicles and structures while the Goliath goes after infantry and lighter vehicles.

Kandela wrote:What do you guys think about Chimera vs. Goliath? To be quite honest I think I like my Chimeras better with double Heavy Bolter or straight up assault loadout with double Heavy Flamer.Goliath seem fairly priced but then they are only 10 capacity (so no special characters can cart around with squad of Neophytes) and suffer a bit by having to buy Heavy Stubber, but I could be looking at them in bad light. I mean they are awesome models with a neat rule, just this capacity...


Both are useful, just depends on what you need your transports to do. The main advantage of the Goliath Truck is that squads within can fire while embarked, allowing them to move and operate in optimal range while being protected from anti-infantry firepower. The Goliath also is the most reliable way to get Demolition Charges in range for maximum carnage since the squad within can still throw the charges after moving (basically increasing the threat range from 6'' to 18''). The Chimera in contrast is optimal for melee squads that don't really have the ability to take advantage of the open topped rule and as you said the enhanced carrying capacity allows characters to ride alongside their troops.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/16 17:03:42


Post by: gorgon


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.


I have to say that I would be very disappointed in GW if this is true.

In an environment with the silliness of "Imperial Soup" armies, I don't know why it's an issue for GCult players to be allowed to choose (what will be 99% of the time) a single regular AM regiment. If the BB regiment rules are simply an option, then fine.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/16 17:33:58


Post by: Amishprn86


 gorgon wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.


I have to say that I would be very disappointed in GW if this is true.

In an environment with the silliness of "Imperial Soup" armies, I don't know why it's an issue for GCult players to be allowed to choose (what will be 99% of the time) a single regular AM regiment. If the BB regiment rules are simply an option, then fine.


But i'd rather have a GSC one just for AM, it would be a bit more fitting for GSC, they dont want you to play from multi-codex's anymore, they aer not forcing you to stop but instead using stratagems and buffs to lead you that direction.

An AM GSC regiment that is more fitting to GSC might be better for GSC anyways, you wont know till we see it.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/16 18:02:11


Post by: Timeshadow


 Amishprn86 wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.


I have to say that I would be very disappointed in GW if this is true.

In an environment with the silliness of "Imperial Soup" armies, I don't know why it's an issue for GCult players to be allowed to choose (what will be 99% of the time) a single regular AM regiment. If the BB regiment rules are simply an option, then fine.


But i'd rather have a GSC one just for AM, it would be a bit more fitting for GSC, they dont want you to play from multi-codex's anymore, they aer not forcing you to stop but instead using stratagems and buffs to lead you that direction.

An AM GSC regiment that is more fitting to GSC might be better for GSC anyways, you wont know till we see it.


I'd be up for it if the regiment bonus gives them all the Tyranid and GSC kw's and some other minor bonus. That way our psychic powers would work on them and we could mix and match and our leaders would get the 4+ Look out sir with them as well...maby even give them cult ambush but that might be to much as well as invalidating our neophytes.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/16 18:50:45


Post by: Hitokageresu


How does the cult fare in friendly games?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/16 19:08:30


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


Timeshadow wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.


I have to say that I would be very disappointed in GW if this is true.

In an environment with the silliness of "Imperial Soup" armies, I don't know why it's an issue for GCult players to be allowed to choose (what will be 99% of the time) a single regular AM regiment. If the BB regiment rules are simply an option, then fine.


But i'd rather have a GSC one just for AM, it would be a bit more fitting for GSC, they dont want you to play from multi-codex's anymore, they aer not forcing you to stop but instead using stratagems and buffs to lead you that direction.

An AM GSC regiment that is more fitting to GSC might be better for GSC anyways, you wont know till we see it.


I'd be up for it if the regiment bonus gives them all the Tyranid and GSC kw's and some other minor bonus. That way our psychic powers would work on them and we could mix and match and our leaders would get the 4+ Look out sir with them as well...maby even give them cult ambush but that might be to much as well as invalidating our neophytes.

I feel pretty mixed about it. On one had I'd love to use the IG Regiments, on the other getting to do silly stuff like ambushing in Bullgryns or a Baneblade sounds fun as hell.

Also apparently GSC placed 7th at the recent GT. I cant seem to find the list anywhere however. Anyone know where to look?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/17 14:28:45


Post by: D6Damager


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Also apparently GSC placed 7th at the recent GT. I cant seem to find the list anywhere however. Anyone know where to look?


It was Magus spam plus AM detachment.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/17 17:57:00


Post by: gorgon


 Amishprn86 wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Apparently in a livestream awhile back they said that Brood Brothers are not suppose to have regiment bonus and will have a unique regiment. No idea if we'll see that implemented before the GSC codex drops though.


I have to say that I would be very disappointed in GW if this is true.

In an environment with the silliness of "Imperial Soup" armies, I don't know why it's an issue for GCult players to be allowed to choose (what will be 99% of the time) a single regular AM regiment. If the BB regiment rules are simply an option, then fine.


But i'd rather have a GSC one just for AM, it would be a bit more fitting for GSC, they dont want you to play from multi-codex's anymore, they aer not forcing you to stop but instead using stratagems and buffs to lead you that direction.


Well, if that's true they're certainly failing at that in the case of 'soup' armies.

Even AM can easily min-max and get the ideal regiment rules they want for each of their detachments. In most cases you're looking at a single AM detachment for most GCult armies, and so a single set of regiment rules. So why the extra restrictions? There are already neutered AM units in the GCult list. Why slightly neuter any AM detachments also? Doesn't make much sense to me. *shrug*



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/17 19:17:15


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


 D6Damager wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Also apparently GSC placed 7th at the recent GT. I cant seem to find the list anywhere however. Anyone know where to look?


It was Magus spam plus AM detachment.

Oh well thats kinda disappointing. I was hoping for a more pure GSC list.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/18 01:21:10


Post by: Strat_N8


Hitokageresu wrote:How does the cult fare in friendly games?


Depends on what one defines as friendly games. Broadly speaking they should do well, though it is wise to keep in mind against less experienced opponents GSC can be overwhelming between their ability to drop threats right on top of the opposing army and the high damage potential the army has (generally if GSC can charge it, it will die).

gorgon wrote:
Even AM can easily min-max and get the ideal regiment rules they want for each of their detachments. In most cases you're looking at a single AM detachment for most GCult armies, and so a single set of regiment rules. So why the extra restrictions? There are already neutered AM units in the GCult list. Why slightly neuter any AM detachments also? Doesn't make much sense to me. *shrug*


We'll have to wait and see how it plays out, but if true I don't expect to see a Brood Brothers <regiment> until we get our codex, by which point AM might very well not be as attractive an ally for us as they are now. I also fully expect the AM units within the index will be brought in line with their Imperial equivalents, just a matter of how soon (still on the look out for the FAQ).

Also I am extremely curious to see how the Tyranid book turns out. Sharing the same faction keywords means some of the Stratagems may have some crossover potential.

 D6Damager wrote:
Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Also apparently GSC placed 7th at the recent GT. I cant seem to find the list anywhere however. Anyone know where to look?


It was Magus spam plus AM detachment.


Any information on what units were taken alongside the Magi? While they could have simply loaded up on high command detachments, a Magnus really wants some pawns around to take hits on his behalf and act as denial batteries against opposing Smites.


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
I was hoping for a more pure GSC list.


Here's one I've been tinkering with that took 5th place at a local tournament last month. It probably would have placed higher had I been able to finish my last game (opponent seized on me and we didn't get past turn 2/top of 3 before time was called...) but overall it performed well on the table.

Spoiler:

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Primus
HQ: 1x Magus

TROOPS: 10x Acolytes
- 4x Demolition Charges
TROOPS: 10x Acolytes
- 4x Demolition Charges
TROOPS: 5x Acolytes
- 2x Rock Saws
TROOPS: 5x Acolytes
- 2x Rock Saws

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
- Demolition Cache
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
- Demolition Cache

HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Magus
HQ: 1x Magus

TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- Leader Bolt Pistol
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck

Total: 2000 points


I'm thinking I might swap some of the Mining Lasers for Seismic Cannons and the Rock Saws for Demolition Charges as further optimizations. The Mining Lasers did ok but were overshadowed by other weapons for anti-tank and I ended up needing more anti-infantry firepower than anything else. Seismic Cannons mesh nicely with the Grenade Launchers weapon profiles so they should allow the squads to double down on their main roles while retaining an element of flexibility. As for the Rock Saws, they never really got a chance to do much work, as they generally ended up taking hits on behalf of their boss or else were targeted in attempt to get to their boss once disembarked.

One thing I really likeis the flexibility of deployment the list offered. When I needed first turn I could condense all 19 drops down to 8 while retaining the option of deploying almost all of the infantry via ambush.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/19 02:59:16


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


 Strat_N8 wrote:



Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
I was hoping for a more pure GSC list.


Here's one I've been tinkering with that took 5th place at a local tournament last month. It probably would have placed higher had I been able to finish my last game (opponent seized on me and we didn't get past turn 2/top of 3 before time was called...) but overall it performed well on the table.

Spoiler:

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Primus
HQ: 1x Magus

TROOPS: 10x Acolytes
- 4x Demolition Charges
TROOPS: 10x Acolytes
- 4x Demolition Charges
TROOPS: 5x Acolytes
- 2x Rock Saws
TROOPS: 5x Acolytes
- 2x Rock Saws

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
- Demolition Cache
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
- Demolition Cache

HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Magus
HQ: 1x Magus

TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- Leader Bolt Pistol
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck

Total: 2000 points


I'm thinking I might swap some of the Mining Lasers for Seismic Cannons and the Rock Saws for Demolition Charges as further optimizations. The Mining Lasers did ok but were overshadowed by other weapons for anti-tank and I ended up needing more anti-infantry firepower than anything else. Seismic Cannons mesh nicely with the Grenade Launchers weapon profiles so they should allow the squads to double down on their main roles while retaining an element of flexibility. As for the Rock Saws, they never really got a chance to do much work, as they generally ended up taking hits on behalf of their boss or else were targeted in attempt to get to their boss once disembarked.

One thing I really likeis the flexibility of deployment the list offered. When I needed first turn I could condense all 19 drops down to 8 while retaining the option of deploying almost all of the infantry via ambush.

So that looks neat, but I got a question. How many Acolytes can use the Cache of Demolition Charges? Is it just one per shooting phase? I'm fairly new but I could never seem to find an answer for this in the Index.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/19 13:09:04


Post by: Strat_N8


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

So that looks neat, but I got a question. How many Acolytes can use the Cache of Demolition Charges? Is it just one per shooting phase? I'm fairly new but I could never seem to find an answer for this in the Index.


Technically none as the Demolition Cache is a vehicle weapon system that activates when a unit is embarked (like the Lasgun Array on the Chimera) so the Goliath Truck/Rockgrinder that is equipped with the Demolition Cache makes the attack using the profile. The Acolytes themselves can throw as many Demolition Charges as they are equipped with.





Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/19 13:33:24


Post by: Caspian89


 Strat_N8 wrote:

Here's one I've been tinkering with that took 5th place at a local tournament last month. It probably would have placed higher had I been able to finish my last game (opponent seized on me and we didn't get past turn 2/top of 3 before time was called...) but overall it performed well on the table.

Spoiler:

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Primus
HQ: 1x Magus

TROOPS: 10x Acolytes
- 4x Demolition Charges
TROOPS: 10x Acolytes
- 4x Demolition Charges
TROOPS: 5x Acolytes
- 2x Rock Saws
TROOPS: 5x Acolytes
- 2x Rock Saws

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
- Demolition Cache
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
- Demolition Cache

HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Magus
HQ: 1x Magus

TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- Leader Bolt Pistol
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Mining Lasers

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck

Total: 2000 points


I'm thinking I might swap some of the Mining Lasers for Seismic Cannons and the Rock Saws for Demolition Charges as further optimizations. The Mining Lasers did ok but were overshadowed by other weapons for anti-tank and I ended up needing more anti-infantry firepower than anything else. Seismic Cannons mesh nicely with the Grenade Launchers weapon profiles so they should allow the squads to double down on their main roles while retaining an element of flexibility. As for the Rock Saws, they never really got a chance to do much work, as they generally ended up taking hits on behalf of their boss or else were targeted in attempt to get to their boss once disembarked.

One thing I really likeis the flexibility of deployment the list offered. When I needed first turn I could condense all 19 drops down to 8 while retaining the option of deploying almost all of the infantry via ambush.


I've been very curious to hear how this list did. Thanks for the update. From my perspective as a relatively new player it's great to see a list not using Genestealers, which seem like the obvious best choice, bar-none in the army. Note that I said 'seem like.' Your use of Acolytes has me thinking about how useful they are and how flexible given their decent melee stat line.

I'm really curious to hear more about the demolition charges both the Cache versions and the infantry version. How useful did they turn out? What was the randomness factor like for you? How about the getting into range issue, the weapons only being 6."

How long did it take you to collect and paint 8 Goliath models!? They are $ expensive!

How often are you planting your Neophytes and shooting to avoid the -1 to hit with the Heavy Weapons?

Can you go over how you move your vehicles and delpoy your guys? I'm not clear on the tactics when it comes to using vehicles to deliver charging units - what I think is called "Rhino Rush."

Thank-you for any time you spend answering these questions. I'm keen on the army, working on painting-up what I have and there is very little tactical information available for this army online.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/19 15:12:39


Post by: Strat_N8


Caspian89 wrote:

I've been very curious to hear how this list did. Thanks for the update. From my perspective as a relatively new player it's great to see a list not using Genestealers, which seem like the obvious best choice, bar-none in the army. Note that I said 'seem like.' Your use of Acolytes has me thinking about how useful they are and how flexible given their decent melee stat line.


I tend to not use Genestealers as often as I probably should simply because mine are a mish-mash of newer models with my modern color scheme and older models with "still learning how to paint" schemes (put waaaaayyy too much shade on my first models, making their flesh more of a dark brown than the rusty orange the newer ones are). Still, Acolytes are better than a lot of people give them credit but they do not do mass rending attacks very well. They need to take advantage of their special weapon options to tailor them for a specific task, otherwise they won't be as efficient as they should be.


Caspian89 wrote:

I'm really curious to hear more about the demolition charges both the Cache versions and the infantry version. How useful did they turn out? What was the randomness factor like for you? How about the getting into range issue, the weapons only being 6."


The Demolition Charges did well for the most part, save for the second game against a foot-based Astra Militarium list where they didn't have any particularly juicy targets to go after (just Celestine, but she gets back up so...). The randomness is a potential issue but I rolled mostly average for the number of shots during the tournament and if nothing else there is always a command point reroll available for at least one shot. I didn't have much problem with range with the squads mounted in a Goliath, as it gives them an extra 12'' of movement (for an 18'' threat range) and allows all of the charges to be thrown from the same point on the hull.

I'm not sure what I think about the Demolition Cache upgrade, as in the first game the Goliaths were shot out from under the squads before they were in range themselves while in the other games the squads themselves generally blew up whatever they targeted which left the truck without anything to use the charges against. I still need to try them on the Rockgrinders though, as they should pair nicely with the Clearance Incinerators.

Caspian89 wrote:

How long did it take you to collect and paint 8 Goliath models!? They are $ expensive!


I already had two Rockgrinders and three Trucks from 7th edition as formation fodder so I only needed two more trucks and a single Rockgrinder. Painting actually went surprisingly fast, I think I had the three new acquisitions done in the week leading up to the tournament with the Rockgrinder itself being painted the night before. Our shop also has a punch-card program that grants $25 off when a full card is turned in, so that helped ease some of the burden.

Reminds me, I probably should update that painting thread I made regarding the army...

Caspian89 wrote:

How often are you planting your Neophytes and shooting to avoid the -1 to hit with the Heavy Weapons?


Depends on how they deployed. If they Ambush they generally just stay put in whatever cover they set up in while in the Goliaths they generally remain stationary once they reach an optimal firing location (generally 24'' out) but will move if needed. I've generally found the bulk of the work is done by the autogunners and grenade launchers using their frag profile while the Mining Lasers are mostly for targets of opportunity. As mentioned prior, I'm tempted to swap a squad or two over to Seismic Cannons to double down on anti-infantry firepower since they provided the bulk of my infantry removal alongside the mass heavy stubbers and clearance incinerators.

Caspian89 wrote:

Can you go over how you move your vehicles and delpoy your guys? I'm not clear on the tactics when it comes to using vehicles to deliver charging units - what I think is called "Rhino Rush."


There isn't really that much thought to it. Each vehicle gives the squad inside 9'' from its hull to be placed (3'' disembark + 6'' movement) and if this is sufficient to put them at about 8-9'' away from the foe I'll consider disembarking them to set them up for a charge. The main thing to keep in mind is to leave a route for the transport itself to charge as it makes an excellent overwatch sponge for its cargo (and in the case of the Rockgrinder is deadly in its own right) and gives survivors an escape option once the foe is dead or fled.

Caspian89 wrote:

Thank-you for any time you spend answering these questions. I'm keen on the army, working on painting-up what I have and there is very little tactical information available for this army online.


Happy to be of help! I think the dearth of tactical information is partially a side effect of the 7th edition meta list for the army not transitioning to the new edition well at all coupled with their being a relatively new army coming into 8th edition.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/19 15:49:52


Post by: Kandela


I am about to get me some 6 boxes of neophytes for my army. I think I will get an uneven split between shotguns and autoguns (2 squads with shotguns and 4 with autoguns). How do you think I should outfit them? Keep them bare to keep the cost low or get some special weapons? Which ones are considered the best option?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/20 00:10:47


Post by: Strat_N8


 Kandela wrote:
I am about to get me some 6 boxes of neophytes for my army. I think I will get an uneven split between shotguns and autoguns (2 squads with shotguns and 4 with autoguns). How do you think I should outfit them? Keep them bare to keep the cost low or get some special weapons? Which ones are considered the best option?


I'd probably build 2x flamers for each Shotgun squad and 2x Grenade Launchers for each autogun squad as the weapons pair well with the main weapons while remaining fairly inexpensive relative to the firepower boost they provide. The heavy mining weapons are all useful in their own way, just a matter of what you need. Mining Lasers are good against multi-wound infantry and can plink wounds off vehicles while the Heavy Stubber and Seismic Cannon offers more anti-infantry firepower. Of those two, I personally like the Seismic Cannon slightly more than the Heavy Stubber since it can't be gotten elsewhere and its range band matches with the other weapons in the squad, but both are viable and the Heavy Stubber is half the cost so it is easier to spam.

Regardless of options, make sure you always take two of whatever you choose. One of the biggest advantages Neophytes have over Guardsmen (besides built-in ambush) is that they can double up on special and heavy weapons while the Guard only get 1 of each.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/20 11:11:58


Post by: C4790M


I tried a Magus smite battery (5x magus in a supreme command) in my tyranid list in a friendly the other day and my god it felt cheesy. Was fun though, they tore holes in his army, would recommend.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/20 13:44:40


Post by: Kandela


 Strat_N8 wrote:
 Kandela wrote:
I am about to get me some 6 boxes of neophytes for my army. I think I will get an uneven split between shotguns and autoguns (2 squads with shotguns and 4 with autoguns). How do you think I should outfit them? Keep them bare to keep the cost low or get some special weapons? Which ones are considered the best option?


I'd probably build 2x flamers for each Shotgun squad and 2x Grenade Launchers for each autogun squad as the weapons pair well with the main weapons while remaining fairly inexpensive relative to the firepower boost they provide. The heavy mining weapons are all useful in their own way, just a matter of what you need. Mining Lasers are good against multi-wound infantry and can plink wounds off vehicles while the Heavy Stubber and Seismic Cannon offers more anti-infantry firepower. Of those two, I personally like the Seismic Cannon slightly more than the Heavy Stubber since it can't be gotten elsewhere and its range band matches with the other weapons in the squad, but both are viable and the Heavy Stubber is half the cost so it is easier to spam.

Regardless of options, make sure you always take two of whatever you choose. One of the biggest advantages Neophytes have over Guardsmen (besides built-in ambush) is that they can double up on special and heavy weapons while the Guard only get 1 of each.



Thanks, I always overlooked Seismic Cannon as it was very expensive. Nice to know it's good option. I'm a big fan of grenade launchers myself - grenade launchers with mortar is a great combination in my opinion, good to know that they are recommended.


EDIT:
Could somebody review my list?
Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command (CP +1) (Genestealer_Cults) [365 Pts] ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ 'Faction +

Genestealer Cults

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) [1635 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, Mortar, 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Autoguns

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, Mortar, 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Autoguns

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, Mortar, 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Autoguns

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Shotguns

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Magus

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Scout Sentinels: 2x Cult Scout Sentinel, 2x Heavy Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ 'Faction +

Genestealer Cults

++ Total: [2000 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I know it looks a bit cheesy but I hope to win some games with them (and since I view my cult as Tzeentchian cult it's very fluffy!).
Woops! Bad BattleScribe - no points now!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/21 14:05:59


Post by: Strat_N8


 Kandela wrote:


EDIT:
Could somebody review my list?
Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command (CP +1) (Genestealer_Cults) [365 Pts] ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ 'Faction +

Genestealer Cults

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) [1635 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, Mortar, 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Autoguns

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, Mortar, 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Autoguns

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, Mortar, 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Autoguns

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid - Shotguns

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Magus

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Scout Sentinels: 2x Cult Scout Sentinel, 2x Heavy Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ 'Faction +

Genestealer Cults

++ Total: [2000 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I know it looks a bit cheesy but I hope to win some games with them (and since I view my cult as Tzeentchian cult it's very fluffy!).


The main vulnerability I see with the list is the melee presence is a bit lacking with just 10 Acolytes and an Iconward (I suppose the Magi too, but they would rather hang back and Smite). Smaller Acolyte squads in my experience tend to operate like missiles that hit the foe and then are expended unless there are other things around that warrant more attention ('stealers, Rockgrinders, etc.). Admittedly it may not be too big an issue since your list as a whole has a lot of firepower to throw at the foe, but worth keeping in mind. One nice thing about the list is that you have lots of ambush slots available due to the mechanized elements, so it might be worth trying a few games ambushing with most of the Neophytes and Magi while the Chimera rumble forward and use the transports to relocate them as needed. Also if you want to squeeze a little more cheese out of the list, take the Leman Russes and Sentinels from the battalion and form an Astra Militarium Outrider detachment with one or both of the Russes as tank commanders for the mandatory HQ choice and an upgrade to BS: 3+.

Regardless, looking forward to hearing how it works for you.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/21 15:23:11


Post by: Amishprn86


C4790M wrote:
I tried a Magus smite battery (5x magus in a supreme command) in my tyranid list in a friendly the other day and my god it felt cheesy. Was fun though, they tore holes in his army, would recommend.


How did you play it? Did you use Cult Ambush at all or just walk them? In a Nids army i'm thinking of walking them if no snipers.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/21 16:17:25


Post by: Kandela



The main vulnerability I see with the list is the melee presence is a bit lacking with just 10 Acolytes and an Iconward (I suppose the Magi too, but they would rather hang back and Smite). Smaller Acolyte squads in my experience tend to operate like missiles that hit the foe and then are expended unless there are other things around that warrant more attention ('stealers, Rockgrinders, etc.). Admittedly it may not be too big an issue since your list as a whole has a lot of firepower to throw at the foe, but worth keeping in mind. One nice thing about the list is that you have lots of ambush slots available due to the mechanized elements, so it might be worth trying a few games ambushing with most of the Neophytes and Magi while the Chimera rumble forward and use the transports to relocate them as needed. Also if you want to squeeze a little more cheese out of the list, take the Leman Russes and Sentinels from the battalion and form an Astra Militarium Outrider detachment with one or both of the Russes as tank commanders for the mandatory HQ choice and an upgrade to BS: 3+.

Regardless, looking forward to hearing how it works for you.


This. Is. Brilliant. Thank you. I will definitely use that little cheese gem.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/21 22:54:10


Post by: C4790M


 Amishprn86 wrote:
C4790M wrote:
I tried a Magus smite battery (5x magus in a supreme command) in my tyranid list in a friendly the other day and my god it felt cheesy. Was fun though, they tore holes in his army, would recommend.


How did you play it? Did you use Cult Ambush at all or just walk them? In a Nids army i'm thinking of walking them if no snipers.


I did ambush them, but I’m not sure if it was the right call. I basically popped them all up close to eachother behind the enemy force (went second vs eldar). I’d almost definately footslog them in a future list though, wrap em all snug in a malanthrope/termagant sushi roll


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/21 23:09:02


Post by: Amishprn86


C4790M wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
C4790M wrote:
I tried a Magus smite battery (5x magus in a supreme command) in my tyranid list in a friendly the other day and my god it felt cheesy. Was fun though, they tore holes in his army, would recommend.


How did you play it? Did you use Cult Ambush at all or just walk them? In a Nids army i'm thinking of walking them if no snipers.


I did ambush them, but I’m not sure if it was the right call. I basically popped them all up close to eachother behind the enemy force (went second vs eldar). I’d almost definately footslog them in a future list though, wrap em all snug in a malanthrope/termagant sushi roll


Yeah having 5 characters mixed in should be really hard to kill them.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/22 13:08:06


Post by: Kandela


 Strat_N8 wrote:

The main vulnerability I see with the list is the melee presence is a bit lacking with just 10 Acolytes and an Iconward (I suppose the Magi too, but they would rather hang back and Smite). Smaller Acolyte squads in my experience tend to operate like missiles that hit the foe and then are expended unless there are other things around that warrant more attention ('stealers, Rockgrinders, etc.). Admittedly it may not be too big an issue since your list as a whole has a lot of firepower to throw at the foe, but worth keeping in mind. One nice thing about the list is that you have lots of ambush slots available due to the mechanized elements, so it might be worth trying a few games ambushing with most of the Neophytes and Magi while the Chimera rumble forward and use the transports to relocate them as needed. Also if you want to squeeze a little more cheese out of the list, take the Leman Russes and Sentinels from the battalion and form an Astra Militarium Outrider detachment with one or both of the Russes as tank commanders for the mandatory HQ choice and an upgrade to BS: 3+.

Regardless, looking forward to hearing how it works for you.


Well I played some test (with heavy proxing - I was AdMech player before) games (2) with my friend and my brother - one against heavy melee Dark Eldars and one against Genestealer Cult.
Have to say I wasn't expecting anything out of my list but was both pleasantly surprised and worried by your excellent deduction skills:
- Against both armies I lacked melee numbers
- Acolytes break face and die the next turn due to heavy fire
- Ambush rocks, I don't know why I was worried to use it - just had to re-roll 1s and 2s for it to be useful
- Smite battery works wonderful! I just carted their ass in chimera and dropped where they could do some damage
- Shotguns are... mediocre. They look cool but have short threat range and not that good in cc as Acolytes.
- Chimeras with double Heavy Bolter rock. In both games they managed to wipe some infantry, kill a fragile carrier (Venom I believe) and cart around some Magi.
- Leman Russes were OK.
- Had a problem with Rockgrinders and enemy Leman Russes - too little heavy firepower.

Due to these things I decided that I should change my list just slighly
Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command (CP +1) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, 10x Neophyte Hybrid, 2x Seismic Cannon

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, 10x Neophyte Hybrid, 2x Seismic Cannon

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, 10x Neophyte Hybrid, 2x Seismic Cannon

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Acolyte Iconward

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: Cult Armored Sentinel, Hunter Killer Missile, Lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
. . Two Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy Bolter

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
. . Two Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy Bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/22 19:04:36


Post by: sureblade


for smite spam.

are primarus psykers better than a magus now?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 04:57:03


Post by: Strat_N8


FAQ dropped and the main post has been updated accordingly.

- Brood Brothers are now a <Regiment> and locks out the regiments from the Astra Militarium Codex though it is implied they will get their own trait when the GSC codex itself drops. (guess I was wrong earlier )
- Cult Leman Russ now has the same Grinding Advance as the Astra Militarium one.
- Armored Sentinels are now T6 like the Astra Militarium ones.

The Astra Militarium received quite a few changes as well, with the most major being Commissars now kill a model to reroll failed moral tests instead of limiting moral casualties to 1.

Kandela wrote:
- Had a problem with Rockgrinders and enemy Leman Russes - too little heavy firepower.


If you are still in the proxy stage, try running some of your Acolytes with Demolition Charges. From my experience they are great for cracking high value targets like Russes and the like when used en-mass. If they don't blow the target up in one go it generally will be damaged enough something else can finish it off. Each Acolyte box also comes with 2 sets while only having 1 of the other mining weapon options, so they are slightly easier to amass as well. Might from Beyond is also very helpful for any of the other Acolyte weapons going after T8 models, as it allows them to wound on 3's instead of 4's.

If nothing else, Aberrants and their S10 hammers have no problem wrecking armored targets and they play rather well with mechanized lists. With your Chimeras you can fit a medium-sized Acolyte Squad and Aberrant squad in one transport.

sureblade wrote:for smite spam.

are primarus psykers better than a magus now?


Not sure. They are cheaper per model and have a bit of innate insurance against catastrophic perils but their secondary power selection isn't as good and they loose out on Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty, and Spiritual Leader abilities. Taking them en-mass also means sacrificing your Astra Militarium detachment allowance for a High Command, which may or may not be worth it depending on what else you may want to borrow.

Thematically I like the idea of using them in conjunction with Magi though. It would stand to reason captive psykers would be released when the Cult begins its uprising to add to the carnage and confusion.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 13:06:40


Post by: Caspian89


 Strat_N8 wrote:
FAQ dropped and the main post has been updated accordingly.


Well I must say I am disappointed but not surprised by the FAQ. One thing to note is that the Cult Leman Russ DID NOT drop 10 points like the AM version did - just a little salt in the wound.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 14:41:43


Post by: Strat_N8


To be fair, the Forge World versions didn't see a cost reduction either. I'm not too bothered by it, as we gained the new version of Grinding Advance which boosts the firepower of each tank significantly and makes taking 1-2 tanks more appealing (any more than that would probably be better as a Brood Brother spearhead).

Also while Brood Brothers replaces the Regiment Keyword, by the look of things we can still use the unaligned relics and warlord traits. The Daggers of Tu'Sahk in particular look like they would work nice with us as they allow a character and infantry unit to "ambush" from a table edge in a similar manner to results 1 and 2 on our ambush table. All manner of possibilities there, be it a blob of infantry or some Bullgryns.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 14:54:54


Post by: Caspian89


 Strat_N8 wrote:
To be fair, the Forge World versions didn't see a cost reduction either. I'm not too bothered by it, as we gained the new version of Grinding Advance which boosts the firepower of each tank significantly and makes taking 1-2 tanks more appealing (any more than that would probably be better as a Brood Brother spearhead).


Can we also access non-regiment specific Stratagems?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 15:04:29


Post by: D6Damager


Caspian89 wrote:
 Strat_N8 wrote:
FAQ dropped and the main post has been updated accordingly.


Well I must say I am disappointed but not surprised by the FAQ. One thing to note is that the Cult Leman Russ DID NOT drop 10 points like the AM version did - just a little salt in the wound.



Me too. Valhallan Banehammer was fun while it lasted.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 15:10:42


Post by: Strat_N8


Caspian89 wrote:Can we also access non-regiment specific Stratagems?


Yes as far as I can tell. The FAQ only specifically restricts Brood Brothers from using <Regiment> specific items, orders, and characters.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/23 15:25:04


Post by: gorgon


Well, I fully expect that the eventual Brood Brothers regiment rule will give something really 'useful' like WS 3+.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/24 12:56:24


Post by: Caspian89


If indeed we can use AM Stratagems then how about using 'Crush Them!' with a Sentinel Power Lifter - found in the Forgeworld Imperial Armour book. The Sentinel in particular (which gets a scout move!) can move 9", Advance and still charge (with the stratagem), hitting on 2+'s, 3Attacks, Strength 10, -2AP, D3 Damage each. It doesn't degrade like other vehicles either and can take on another role using "Go Recon!" at other stages in the game to move quick or grab objectives. I think I will prefer this version of the Scout Sentinel over a Heavy Flamer version. Sadly I don't see any powerlifter kits on the FW website at this time.
EDIT: Sadly "Go Recon!" clearly states that it only targets Scout Sentinels and that's it.
EDIT 2: Also noticed that Power Lifters are Heavy Support and not Fast Attack...odd.
EDIT 3: Forgeworld has confirmed that they no longer produce Sentinel Power Lifters, nor do they plan too. If I'm that keen on them I would make them out of Kastelian Robots as the base with Meganobz bits for arms.

Surely we will get a similar Stratagem to "Crush them!" that we can utilize with our Rockgrinders. Maybe it will be called "Grind them!" or maybe "Mincemeat!"

And I will be taking Kurov's Aquilla every time.

Seperate topic: Has anyone tried running Biovores in their lists? They seems pretty great and very tactically flexible. Adding to the mortal wound spam OR messing up opponent movement and reserve placement. They are also cheap.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/25 09:20:24


Post by: Kandela


Wanted to share results of another proxy game against my friend playing Genestealer Cult:

List I used:
Spoiler:


++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Grenade Launcher, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Abberants: 4x Abberant, 4x Power Hammer

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Acolyte Iconward

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
. Two Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy Bolter

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
. Two Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy Bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

++ Supreme Command (CP +1) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus

Magus



Results - minor victory for me (2 points more than my friend)

Notes:
- Smite battery great again! They squashed squad of enemy genestealers in one turn (10 Genestealers).
- Aberrants are decent answer against enemy heavies - they kill whatever they need to kill and then stand there threateningly ensuring overreaction from enemy.
- Leman Russ with Grinding Assault is premium heavy hitter. They can kill whatever they want - kind of swiss army knife of vehicles.
- I think I like my Neophytes squad with only grenade launchers as it warrants them staying cheap and mobile.
- Acolytes with Rock Saws are indeed like a missile - unless you park an Iconward behind them, then they turn a little more tricky to kill.
- Don't know what to say about Sentinels - they are OK at dealing with enemy heavies I guess. Nothing major though.

That leads me to creation of my future shopping list:
6 boxes of Neophytes (6 Grenades, 6 Seismic Cannons, 30 Autoguns, 10 Shotguns)
6 boxes of Acolytes (2 converted Acolyte Iconwards, 4 converted Aberrants, 6 Rock Saws, 6 Demolition charges, 9 normal Acolytes)
2 Leman Russes
3 Cgimeras
4 Sentinels
5 Magi (how on earth will I manage that?!? Guess I will convert some form Eldar Farseers...)

Some of the boxes I already have. This is actually super fun to plan your future force.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/25 09:28:33


Post by: Amishprn86


I would use this for Magus Spam
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Collegiate-Arcane-Mystic-Battle-Wizards

Also how did you deploy and play your Magus?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/25 10:45:27


Post by: Kandela


 Amishprn86 wrote:
I would use this for Magus Spam
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Collegiate-Arcane-Mystic-Battle-Wizards

Also how did you deploy and play your Magus?


I started with them inside Chimeras (2 can fit with my Neophytes Squad inside a Chimera). They mostly stayed behind a Neophyte meatshields in squads of 2 with my Warlord being alone (he was a big target, had to have one squad and Iconward to stay on the board and stay relevant). Squads of 2 generic Magi went with Neophytes and started to encircle foes, that's where lack of heavy weapons came handy - they were on the constant move for that sweet 18" Smite. Genestealers went after my Warlord so I had to back away a bunch, generic Magi and their squads were respectively on the left and the right of the board. Sadly I positioned my Iconward too close to Neophytes as Genestealers run rampart on them, costed me an important piece. Then every Magi casted smite on Genestealers as they killed 10 man squad of Neophytes and Iconward like they didn't even existed. 4 smite went off, one rolled 10 on their cast and got 5 mortal wounds after that getting 5 wounds on 3 smites was quite easy.

They managed to kill one squad of 10 Genestealers alone and support my Neophytes with killing some other infantry, 2 Magi casted Smite on a damaged Leman Russ and managed to kill it, they tore chunks out of Acolyte squads (I sadly lost 3 Magi when they appeared so only 2 left standing when the game ended). Surprisingly they are quite good in cc with 3+ and 3 attacks, one of my lost Magus managed to took down 2 Acolytes before death.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/25 15:49:14


Post by: Caspian89


Thank-you for your battle reports. They are helpful to me as I work on painting the models I have and deciding what units get to be 'coloured in' next.

I have to watch my hobby budget very closely so here is what I have done to reduce the costs as much as I can think of:

What I have done is to use Facebook to connect to 40k USED model swaps/sale groups. If you pay through PayPal AND make sure you indicate it's for a good or service, NOT to a friend or family you have 100% coverage if you don't get your models. So 0 risk, other than the risk of getting models that are put together poorly. Sometimes you can get 'used' models that haven't even been taken off the sprue. I have been able to pick up three of the GSC side of the Deathwatch: Overkill for a very good price. Each set gives you: 1 Patriarch, 1 Primus, 1 Magus, 2 Familiars, 16 Neophytes (w/2x Grenade Launcer, 2x Mining Laser), 12 Acolytes (no special weapons), 2 Genestealers and 4 Abberhants. This is massive value and getting them used is even better.

The Acolyte box comes with only 5 models BUT if you just buy 1 set of extra legs (and a base) from a bits store you can make a 6th Acolyte from the box as there is an extra torso and plenty of extra heads and arms. (one of the models will have to have the RockDrill back-pack stuck on unless you want them to have a blank space on their back. I carved up some of the generic 12 Acolytes that came from Deathwatch: Overkill sets and glued on the demolition charges and Iconward pieces to make the box go even further. I also purchased Rocksaws individually from a bitz store and then used my Acolyte box to make them. SO...from 1 box of Acolytes and a bitz purchase I get 6 Heavy Rock Saw models. NOTE: That the torsos are asymmetrical. Some are meant for the Rocksaws/Drills and some are meant for the Rockcutters. I just ignored that and did all Rock Saws. You'll never notice once they are painted and on the table.

Buying a 2nd Deathwatch:Overkill set will provide you with the rest of the Neophytes you need as well as the last 4 Abberhants and another Magus. When you make your bits order for the Rocksaws make sure you also buy 2 extra Grenade Launchers to outfit a couple of generic Neophytes (this may require some knife work to cut away the arms sculpted to the torsos) from the Overkill set. Voila! You now have 6x Grenade Launcher models, and 22x generic Neophytes (+4x Mining Laser models). That leaves you 2 generic Neophyte Models short for the 24 your list from above needs. If you're purchasing Chimeras I'd buy the one that comes with the extra squad of Guardsmen and the GSC upgrade sprue - that'll give you your extra dudes plus a grenade launcer/flamer/pistol/chainsword.

You can then sell off any extra models to help make back any money you may want.

So your pruchase list for the above becomes:
2x Used Overkilleathwatch sets
1 Box of Acolytes
5x Heavy Rocksaws, 2x Grenade Launcher (I used AM versions for ease of conversion), 1x Acyolte Legs, 1x 32mm base from a bits store
1x Armoured Claw box-set (Chimera + 10 guardsmen)



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/25 16:45:50


Post by: Kandela


Caspian89 wrote:
Thank-you for your battle reports. They are helpful to me as I work on painting the models I have and deciding what units get to be 'coloured in' next.

I have to watch my hobby budget very closely so here is what I have done to reduce the costs as much as I can think of:

What I have done is to use Facebook to connect to 40k USED model swaps/sale groups. If you pay through PayPal AND make sure you indicate it's for a good or service, NOT to a friend or family you have 100% coverage if you don't get your models. So 0 risk, other than the risk of getting models that are put together poorly. Sometimes you can get 'used' models that haven't even been taken off the sprue. I have been able to pick up three of the GSC side of the Deathwatch: Overkill for a very good price. Each set gives you: 1 Patriarch, 1 Primus, 1 Magus, 2 Familiars, 16 Neophytes (w/2x Grenade Launcer, 2x Mining Laser), 12 Acolytes (no special weapons), 2 Genestealers and 4 Abberhants. This is massive value and getting them used is even better.

The Acolyte box comes with only 5 models BUT if you just buy 1 set of extra legs (and a base) from a bits store you can make a 6th Acolyte from the box as there is an extra torso and plenty of extra heads and arms. (one of the models will have to have the RockDrill back-pack stuck on unless you want them to have a blank space on their back. I carved up some of the generic 12 Acolytes that came from Deathwatch: Overkill sets and glued on the demolition charges and Iconward pieces to make the box go even further. I also purchased Rocksaws individually from a bitz store and then used my Acolyte box to make them. SO...from 1 box of Acolytes and a bitz purchase I get 6 Heavy Rock Saw models. NOTE: That the torsos are asymmetrical. Some are meant for the Rocksaws/Drills and some are meant for the Rockcutters. I just ignored that and did all Rock Saws. You'll never notice once they are painted and on the table.

Buying a 2nd Deathwatch:Overkill set will provide you with the rest of the Neophytes you need as well as the last 4 Abberhants and another Magus. When you make your bits order for the Rocksaws make sure you also buy 2 extra Grenade Launchers to outfit a couple of generic Neophytes (this may require some knife work to cut away the arms sculpted to the torsos) from the Overkill set. Voila! You now have 6x Grenade Launcher models, and 22x generic Neophytes (+4x Mining Laser models). That leaves you 2 generic Neophyte Models short for the 24 your list from above needs. If you're purchasing Chimeras I'd buy the one that comes with the extra squad of Guardsmen and the GSC upgrade sprue - that'll give you your extra dudes plus a grenade launcer/flamer/pistol/chainsword.

You can then sell off any extra models to help make back any money you may want.

So your pruchase list for the above becomes:
2x Used Overkilleathwatch sets
1 Box of Acolytes
5x Heavy Rocksaws, 2x Grenade Launcher (I used AM versions for ease of conversion), 1x Acyolte Legs, 1x 32mm base from a bits store
1x Armoured Claw box-set (Chimera + 10 guardsmen)



Nice thinking! Sadly where I come from getting bits is very expensive or not available at all (some bitzshops even refused to send it to Poland... for some reason) I will buy me some Deathwatch Overkill though I already have 4 boxes of Neophytes coming to me as we speak. Maybe the game itself is fun to play, who knows?
I intend to get my Magi by converting some of these:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eldar-Farseer
and using this one as my Warlord (so he's more visible on the board):
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eldrad-Ulthran-2017

Don't chimeras squads with guardsmen come with mortars? I could use some of these for extra flexibility.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/25 22:30:48


Post by: Niiai


Hi.

So I was thinking of adding some cultists to my turanid army.

I have acces to: 2 magus, 1 primus, 1 patriarch, a group of genstealer and 1 chimera. Any thoughts on what I should take?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 06:42:24


Post by: Kandela


 Niiai wrote:
Hi.

So I was thinking of adding some cultists to my turanid army.

I have acces to: 2 magus, 1 primus, 1 patriarch, a group of genstealer and 1 chimera. Any thoughts on what I should take?


Magi are great way to deny psychic powers and cast smite. Patriarch with group of genestealers can cast on them Power from beyond to give them the needed extra attacks - genestealers in group of 10+ with power from beyond will kill anything, not to mention Patriarch being good.

You could bring them in a Supreme Command detachment as it has place for 3-5 HQ and 0-1 Elites. Magi are very cheap, Patriarch costs more than two Magi unfortunately and squad of 10 Genestealers is quite affordable for the power they bring.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 09:21:19


Post by: C4790M


For people trying to track down multiple magi for cheap, I find the Wyrdvane Psykers fit the bill pretty well, and for dirt cheap. Just got to cult them up a bit with cult symbols


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 09:40:28


Post by: Amishprn86


C4790M wrote:
For people trying to track down multiple magi for cheap, I find the Wyrdvane Psykers fit the bill pretty well, and for dirt cheap. Just got to cult them up a bit with cult symbols


Those are perfect!, I'm ordering my now lol

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Imperial-Guard-Sanctioned-Psykers


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 11:13:03


Post by: Kandela


C4790M wrote:
For people trying to track down multiple magi for cheap, I find the Wyrdvane Psykers fit the bill pretty well, and for dirt cheap. Just got to cult them up a bit with cult symbols


This is actually really good, haven't checked the IG line, thank you.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 13:31:54


Post by: Caspian89


But those guys look so tired and pathetic! Your Magus is your powerful HQ guy...don't you think he should look at least a little epic?

To be fair though...with the level of epic-ness on display via every other faction's HQ having a tired, "oh gak, not again" sort of leader might be pretty funny. Epically non-epic.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 13:51:22


Post by: Kandela


Caspian89 wrote:
But those guys look so tired and pathetic! Your Magus is your powerful HQ guy...don't you think he should look at least a little epic?

To be fair though...with the level of epic-ness on display via every other faction's HQ having a tired, "oh gak, not again" sort of leader might be pretty funny. Epically non-epic.


Yeah, to be fair it's kind of silly. You have countless minions at your disposal, minions that would do everything in your place even die instead of you but some weird outer realm magic called "detachment requirement" calls you to come forth onto the battlefield where you could die. No wonder he is tired and with no hope


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 14:17:44


Post by: Amishprn86


HAHA thats funny


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 15:45:39


Post by: Kandela


So I've been thinking lately about my Magus Smite Battery and have to say even though I'm pleased by their performance it kinda feels like they could use a change. 5 Magus is maybe too much. I've never seen anyone fielding more than 3 Magi at once, maybe that's because they are afraid to be called cheesy or they don't have enough models but maybe there is something more to it. 3 Magi can get every power from the Broodmind discipline and have Smite in case they need something to die. Is it just me or more than 3 Magi feels somewhat redundant?

What do you think? What is the magic number of Magi in one army?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 15:57:10


Post by: Timeshadow


I built a list with 9 magi and a patriarch and a bunch of chaff units just to see how it plays but haven't had the chance to use it.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 19:43:12


Post by: Caspian89


This is the list I'm looking at building. I'm mainly playing casually but that doesn't mean that winning isn't an important goal to keep in mind. Perhaps the generous and more experienced minds than mine on the forum will care to tell me what you think before I spend more money.

2000 Points
4 Detachments (which I realize is not legal for tournaments) and 9 Command Points
Spoiler:

GSC - Battallion Detachment
HQ
- Magus (Mind Control)
- Magus (Mass Hypnosis)
- Magus (Mind Control) - back-up
Troops
- Acolyte Hybrids (x10) w/ 3x Heavy Rock Saws, 1x Leader w/ Lashwhip & Bonesword.
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10)
Fast Attack
-Scout Sentinel, Heavy Flamer
-Scout Sentinel, Heavy Flamer

GSC Vanguard Detachment
HQ
- Patriarch (Power from Beyond)
Elite
- Genestealers (x15)

AM Vanguard Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Executioner Cannon, hull mounted Heavy Bolter, Kurov's Aquila
Elite
- Hades Breaching Drill Squadron, w/10x Veterans, 2x Plasma Guns, 1x Plasma Pistol, 7x Shotguns
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles

AM Spearhead Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Executioner Cannon, hull mounted Heavy Bolter
Heavy Support
- Basilisk
- Basilisk
-Sentinel Powerlifter


I have no idea about this list...it's unlike other lists I've seen. I presume I will always go second with this list but I'm hoping my deployment can be quite sneaky given I get to deploy all the Ratlings, the 2x Scout Sentinels and the Sentinel Powerlifter after all other models have been set-up AND the Sentinels all get a Scout move.

All the GSC Infantry slots can be in reserve as well as the Hades Breaching Drill if required.

At least one Neophyte Squad tries to protect the Basilisks, which are there to provide needed long-range firepower.

The Ratlings are split up to help avoid losses in the morale phase given their low leadership.

I think it's a fun all round list that'll be quite unique and fun to play with and against.

I think I'm weak on long-range fire power and probably will suffer against Flyers. I may have also diluted my strengths too much trying to do too many things in one list.

Any suggestions are helpful.




Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 20:02:05


Post by: D6Damager


Caspian89 wrote:
This is the list I'm looking at building. I'm mainly playing casually but that doesn't mean that winning isn't an important goal to keep in mind. Perhaps the generous and more experienced minds than mine on the forum will care to tell me what you think before I spend more money.

2000 Points
4 Detachments (which I realize is not legal for tournaments) and 9 Command Points
Spoiler:

GSC - Battallion Detachment
HQ
- Magus (Mind Control)
- Magus (Mass Hypnosis)
- Magus (Mind Control) - back-up
Troops
- Acolyte Hybrids (x10) w/ 3x Heavy Rock Saws, 1x Leader w/ Lashwhip & Bonesword.
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10)
Fast Attack
-Scout Sentinel, Heavy Flamer
-Scout Sentinel, Heavy Flamer

GSC Vanguard Detachment
HQ
- Patriarch (Power from Beyond)
Elite
- Genestealers (x15)

AM Vanguard Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Executioner Cannon, hull mounted Heavy Bolter, Kurov's Aquila
Elite
- Hades Breaching Drill Squadron, w/10x Veterans, 2x Plasma Guns, 1x Plasma Pistol, 7x Shotguns
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles

AM Spearhead Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Executioner Cannon, hull mounted Heavy Bolter
Heavy Support
- Basilisk
- Basilisk
-Sentinel Powerlifter


I have no idea about this list...it's unlike other lists I've seen. I presume I will always go second with this list but I'm hoping my deployment can be quite sneaky given I get to deploy all the Ratlings, the 2x Scout Sentinels and the Sentinel Powerlifter after all other models have been set-up AND the Sentinels all get a Scout move.

All the GSC Infantry slots can be in reserve as well as the Hades Breaching Drill if required.

At least one Neophyte Squad tries to protect the Basilisks, which are there to provide needed long-range firepower.

The Ratlings are split up to help avoid losses in the morale phase given their low leadership.

I think it's a fun all round list that'll be quite unique and fun to play with and against.

I think I'm weak on long-range fire power and probably will suffer against Flyers. I may have also diluted my strengths too much trying to do too many things in one list.

Any suggestions are helpful.




I would take a max squad of genestealers. You're going to lose a few to overwatch even with a perfect ambush.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/26 21:47:32


Post by: C4790M


Caspian89 wrote:
But those guys look so tired and pathetic! Your Magus is your powerful HQ guy...don't you think he should look at least a little epic?

To be fair though...with the level of epic-ness on display via every other faction's HQ having a tired, "oh gak, not again" sort of leader might be pretty funny. Epically non-epic.


I have two of the deathwatch ones and three of the wyrdvanes, in my mind the three wyrdvanes are either apprentices or they were imperial psykers psychically subdued into fighting for the cult, getting their power amplified by the hive mind to accomplish their task.

On the tabletop, five magi is AMAZING. I usually put them in ambush so I can observe the enemies deployments before having to commit to the board. Generally they don’t care where they pop up from ambush either - all they’re doing is popping skulls with smite. Don’t forget to conga-line your wounded at the front so the enemy has to waste firepower on weakened targets. Also, don’t overlook them in melee - they get 3 S5 AP-1 D3 damage attacks hitting on 3+, they will put a couple of wounds on things. Being able to get a Mass Hypnosis or a Mind Control off almost wherever you want is stellar. I usually run the magi as an extra in Tyranid lists though so Might from Beyond gets limited use.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/27 06:50:04


Post by: Kandela


So it seems that Genestealer Cult won't receive codex 11th November as people rumored since 11th is the day Necromunda arrives at pre-order.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/26/necromunda-news-from-spiel-release-date-gang-war-and-more-oct26gw-homepage-post-1/


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/28 14:07:03


Post by: Strat_N8


Kandela wrote:So I've been thinking lately about my Magus Smite Battery and have to say even though I'm pleased by their performance it kinda feels like they could use a change. 5 Magus is maybe too much. I've never seen anyone fielding more than 3 Magi at once, maybe that's because they are afraid to be called cheesy or they don't have enough models but maybe there is something more to it. 3 Magi can get every power from the Broodmind discipline and have Smite in case they need something to die. Is it just me or more than 3 Magi feels somewhat redundant?

What do you think? What is the magic number of Magi in one army?


I think 2-3 is probably enough for most lists if you aren't aiming for Smite spam specifically. The Broodmind powers are all really strong and potentially game changing so having some duplicates is probably still a good idea. I know at our local shop my Magnus has earned the eternal scorn of our resident Guard player after suffering a series of devastating Mind Control usages.

Caspian89 wrote:This is the list I'm looking at building.

Any suggestions are helpful.


Biggest vulnerability I see with the list is its melee compliment. You have a good mix of assault and shooting elements but the assault aspect doesn't have much threat saturation (assuming they are being used as ambushers of course) which makes them fairly obvious targets for enemy shooting. Not sure what I think about the mass Ratlings. I've had a squad used against me and they didn't impress, but then again GSC characters have a back-up via Unquestioning Loyalty that most characters do not so it isn't perhaps the fairest of circumstances.

Also you can probably get the list down to 3 detachments by moving the artillery and extra tank commander to the Vanguard detachment, though you would have to drop the Powerlifter Sentinel to do so.

Speaking of the Powerlifter, I bet one could make a fairly convincing one using the Scout Sentinel chassis and some of the servo arms from the Galvanic Servohauler kit.


Kandela wrote:So it seems that Genestealer Cult won't receive codex 11th November as people rumored since 11th is the day Necromunda arrives at pre-order.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/26/necromunda-news-from-spiel-release-date-gang-war-and-more-oct26gw-homepage-post-1/


I am actually rather interested to see if Necromunda might have some hints as to things we might inherit when the time comes for our codex. The gangs use a lot of the same low-tech/civilian equipment as the cults and the game might end up introducing new weaponry for the army (already mentioned a "Needle Rifle" which I assume is a bigger version of the Needle Pistol our Primus carries around). Also if GSC becomes a playable "gang" as some of the rumors implied we might get a couple new kits alongside it (good place for an Aberrant kit for instance).




Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/28 17:45:09


Post by: Caspian89


Thank-you for the comments on my list. I'll take it all into consideration. It seems that a no brainer first purchase are 2x Leman Russ kits, followed by 2x Sentinel Kits. Hopefully by then I'll have more games and the theorycrafting can make way to in-game experiences. That said...a few in game experiences can skew otherwise sound theorycrafting and lead to less that satisfying long-term results. Good thing this is just a hobby and making mistakes just means buying different models!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/29 15:44:28


Post by: Kandela


My friend and I hung out a little bit and he pointed out to something about our league - majority of games is being run in 1700 format with 2000 format being reserved for special occasions (like the league ending tournaments). That's a pain in the bum since I want to play with them in this year league, hence my request to review an army list in more "unusual" format of 1700.

Spoiler:


++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Abberants: 4x Abberant, 4x Power Hammer

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Acolyte Iconward

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

++ Supreme Command (CP +1) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


League follows some additional rules too:
Can't repeat a same detachment (so can't for instance run two battalions as I would like)
Auxiliary detachment is disallowed

Has anyone played in 1700 format? Is it different from 1500 or is it just 1500 with 200 points tacked-on?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/29 16:47:36


Post by: Timeshadow


 Kandela wrote:
My friend and I hung out a little bit and he pointed out to something about our league - majority of games is being run in 1700 format with 2000 format being reserved for special occasions (like the league ending tournaments). That's a pain in the bum since I want to play with them in this year league, hence my request to review an army list in more "unusual" format of 1700.

Spoiler:


++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Abberants: 4x Abberant, 4x Power Hammer

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Acolyte Iconward

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

Cult Armored Sentinels: 2x Cult Armored Sentinel, 2x Lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

++ Supreme Command (CP +1) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


League follows some additional rules too:
Can't repeat a same detachment (so can't for instance run two battalions as I would like)
Auxiliary detachment is disallowed

Has anyone played in 1700 format? Is it different from 1500 or is it just 1500 with 200 points tacked-on?


Why the 2 iconwards? I'd rather see 2 primus or even 2 more magus. Yes the 6+FNP is ok but unless it's stacked with somethingelse (like tyranid Catalist) it's too little too late too often. I'd also consider Genestealers over the Aberrants....I'd love for aberrants to be better but they die too easily...yes they likely take a unit with them but they are not likely to make their points back unless you hit a super sweet big target and those are likelt going to be too well bubble wraped.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/29 17:41:27


Post by: Kandela


Timeshadow wrote:
Why the 2 iconwards? I'd rather see 2 primus or even 2 more magus. Yes the 6+FNP is ok but unless it's stacked with somethingelse (like tyranid Catalist) it's too little too late too often. I'd also consider Genestealers over the Aberrants....I'd love for aberrants to be better but they die too easily...yes they likely take a unit with them but they are not likely to make their points back unless you hit a super sweet big target and those are likelt going to be too well bubble wraped.


Fair point about Iconwards. Though they do allow to re-roll failed morale test too not only 6+FNP. I'm not yet ready to replace my Aberrants with Genestealers. I'll make them work damn it


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/29 22:46:40


Post by: Strat_N8



 Kandela wrote:
League follows some additional rules too:
Can't repeat a same detachment (so can't for instance run two battalions as I would like)
Auxiliary detachment is disallowed

Has anyone played in 1700 format? Is it different from 1500 or is it just 1500 with 200 points tacked-on?


I understand why they don't want duplicate detachments, but it is a bit unfortunate. Our local group tends to play at 1500, 1850, 2000, and 2500 point brackets so I don't really have any experience at the 1700 bracket unfortunately. Main thing I'd be weary of is the possibility of seeing Lords of War with the extra points available. Mind Control is a solid counter to the shooty ones, but Primarchs could be a problem as they basically require Genestealers or mass Demolition Charges to deal with due to their redundant defenses making low-volume attacks fairly unreliable.

Timeshadow wrote:
Why the 2 iconwards? I'd rather see 2 primus or even 2 more magus. Yes the 6+FNP is ok but unless it's stacked with somethingelse (like tyranid Catalist) it's too little too late too often.


Iconwards are mainly for moral mitigation. Most GSC infantry actually have fairly good leadership values and the reroll from the Iconward generally will suffice to keep them around baring extreme casualties. The 6+ FNP should be thought of as a handy bonus (especially vs mortal wounds) rather than a main feature. While the Patriarch is the best at mitigating the effects of moral, each Iconward is just over a third of the cost so they represent a smaller investment for less aggressive squads like Neophytes and can cover a greater portion of the army. They also are handy in a pinch as a counter-assault unit as each hits like a Genestealer with its Flurry of Claws ability up.

Timeshadow wrote:
I'd also consider Genestealers over the Aberrants....I'd love for aberrants to be better but they die too easily...yes they likely take a unit with them but they are not likely to make their points back unless you hit a super sweet big target and those are likely going to be too well bubblewrapped.


To be fair, those arguments against Aberrants can be made against Genestealers as well. Both are fragile if left exposed and both are unlikely to make their points back if stymied by bubblewrap. Based on my experience with Aberrants they do much better as mechanized troops than as ambushers. Transports generally solve the issue of getting them to their preferred target and their small squad size leaves plenty of space for support to ride alongside them. They need to avoid infantry fights when possible, as apart from multi-wound T5 it is a waste of their capabilities.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/30 07:57:57


Post by: Kandela


 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Kandela wrote:
League follows some additional rules too:
Can't repeat a same detachment (so can't for instance run two battalions as I would like)
Auxiliary detachment is disallowed

Has anyone played in 1700 format? Is it different from 1500 or is it just 1500 with 200 points tacked-on?


I understand why they don't want duplicate detachments, but it is a bit unfortunate. Our local group tends to play at 1500, 1850, 2000, and 2500 point brackets so I don't really have any experience at the 1700 bracket unfortunately. Main thing I'd be weary of is the possibility of seeing Lords of War with the extra points available. Mind Control is a solid counter to the shooty ones, but Primarchs could be a problem as they basically require Genestealers or mass Demolition Charges to deal with due to their redundant defenses making low-volume attacks fairly unreliable.

Timeshadow wrote:
Why the 2 iconwards? I'd rather see 2 primus or even 2 more magus. Yes the 6+FNP is ok but unless it's stacked with somethingelse (like tyranid Catalist) it's too little too late too often.


Iconwards are mainly for moral mitigation. Most GSC infantry actually have fairly good leadership values and the reroll from the Iconward generally will suffice to keep them around baring extreme casualties. The 6+ FNP should be thought of as a handy bonus (especially vs mortal wounds) rather than a main feature. While the Patriarch is the best at mitigating the effects of moral, each Iconward is just over a third of the cost so they represent a smaller investment for less aggressive squads like Neophytes and can cover a greater portion of the army. They also are handy in a pinch as a counter-assault unit as each hits like a Genestealer with its Flurry of Claws ability up.

Timeshadow wrote:
I'd also consider Genestealers over the Aberrants....I'd love for aberrants to be better but they die too easily...yes they likely take a unit with them but they are not likely to make their points back unless you hit a super sweet big target and those are likely going to be too well bubblewrapped.


To be fair, those arguments against Aberrants can be made against Genestealers as well. Both are fragile if left exposed and both are unlikely to make their points back if stymied by bubblewrap. Based on my experience with Aberrants they do much better as mechanized troops than as ambushers. Transports generally solve the issue of getting them to their preferred target and their small squad size leaves plenty of space for support to ride alongside them. They need to avoid infantry fights when possible, as apart from multi-wound T5 it is a waste of their capabilities.


From what I understand Lords of War are a bit sketchy in the tournament. You could bring one but there is always a big fuss about it, maybe it will change in 2018 to not allowed or fully allowed, I don't know yet.
Thank you for more fair points. Will take it into consideration.

Think I will go with no Iconwards for a bit but still get a squad of aberrants for heavy target hunting. I don't really have to watch out for morale as they are all a 10 man meatshield with no upgrades. The lack of Iconwards opens up points to get myself a third Leman Russ that I'm very fond of:
Spoiler:

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids: 5x Acolyte Hybrid, 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Abberants: 4x Abberant, 4x Power Hammer

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ Fast Attack +

Cult Armored Sentinels: 3x Cult Armored Sentinel, 3x Lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

Cult Leman Russ: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Aberrants will take one chimera (heavy flamer one) and I will leave one squad back with my warlord for objective securing. Triple Leman Russ will be huge firing 6 battle cannon shots a turn. 2 Magi will try to cast mass hypnosis on units that my acolytes will charge and sentinels will plink away at enenmy heavies (the ones in the back as I suspect Aberrants to kill or scare away anything worth shooting at).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 0004/10/13 13:34:25


Post by: Caspian89


On the topic of Aberrants.

They also seem very weak to me. They should at least be Toughness 5! I hope they get a boost in our codex. Right now I'd take them because it's easier to paint 6 models that any number of Genestealers/Acolytes!

A 6 model unit of Aberrants with 2x Power Hammers and 4x Power Picks is 214 points. That's 12 wounds at toughness 4, 5+ save with their Bestial Vigor rule...which is not that great. you get 4 S10 attacks, -3AP, 3wounds, hitting on 4+ and 8x S7, -2 AP, D3 wound attacks hitting on 3+. I only take 2 Hammers because they are so expensive and I'd rather loose the cheaper Pick wielding models and have the Hammers models get into combat.

Compare to a 10 model unit of Acolyte Hybrids with 4x Heavy Rock Saws is 206 points. That's 10 wounds at toughness 3, 5+ save. Also pretty squishy...but I think Toughness 3 is a lot worse than Toughness 4. 8x S8 attacks, -4 AP, 2 wounds hitting on 3+. EDIT: Not to discount the 13x Rending Claw attacks at Strength 4 AND the 6 Cultist Knife attacks at S3.

If you go to AM you get Bullgryns. For 168 points you get 4x Bullgryns with Power Mauls. that's 12 wounds at toughness 5, 4+ save. You get 12 attacks at S7, -1ap, 2wounds, that goes up to 16 attacks on the charge. For 119 points you get a Chimera with Heavy Flamers to carry them. Bullgryns are WAY more durable than the Aberrants but do not hit as hard. Not they could potentially do a psuedo Cult Ambush by coming in from a table edge via the Dagger of Tusakh.

For Toughness 8 vehicles and monsters I think the Acolyte squads with higher model counts (12+ models) might be the best choice, especially ambushing with a Primus, now hitting on 2's. If you go to 15 count you can take 2 more Cutters (or Drills or Cutters) or 2 Demo charges. If you really need to stretch the units capacities you can buff then with a Power From Beyond for S10 Rocksaw attacks. Power From Beyond also grants an extra attack so now you've got 3x S10 attacks, -4 AP, 2 wounds hitting on 3+ per Rocksaw model. Also don't discount the cultist knife attacks, especially when buffed to S5.

Just for comparison a 15 model Acolyte Squad with 4x Rocksaw and 2x Democharges is 281 points. You can loose 9 wounds in this squad before removing a special weapon - good luck with Morale though. EDIT: Also remember the 19x S4 Rending claw attacks AND 9x Cultist Knife attacks....that's a lot of attacks.

A 20 count Purestrain Genestealer squad is 300, though that squad cannot crack big armour very easily.

The Aberramts are so expensive per Hit Roll you have to make...even if they are hard hitting. I'd rather have more chances to hit with moderate damage that hit hard once or twice.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/30 13:44:14


Post by: D6Damager


 Kandela wrote:
From what I understand Lords of War are a bit sketchy in the tournament. You could bring one but there is always a big fuss about it, maybe it will change in 2018 to not allowed or fully allowed, I don't know yet. Thank you for more fair points. Will take it into consideration.


There's no Lord of War available to GSC that is scarier than Mortarion or Magnus. In a tournament setting you will probably face off against these and Imperial Knights, Lord of Skulls and other Baneblade chassis.

Taking a lean (no sponsons) Shadowsword as your AM detachment can give you a fighting chance against other Lords of War without throwing away your Purestrains or Hammer Aberrants. Even better is to take a supreme command detachment with 3x Primaris Psykers to protect it (Psychic Barrier etc.) and add more Smites/Deny and an additional 1 CP.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/30 14:36:18


Post by: Kandela


Caspian89 wrote:
On the topic of Aberrants.

They also seem very weak to me. They should at least be Toughness 5! I hope they get a boost in our codex. Right now I'd take them because it's easier to paint 6 models that any number of Genestealers/Acolytes!

A 6 model unit of Aberrants with 2x Power Hammers and 4x Power Picks is 214 points. That's 12 wounds at toughness 4, 5+ save with their Bestial Vigor rule...which is not that great. you get 4 S10 attacks, -3AP, 3wounds, hitting on 4+ and 8x S7, -2 AP, D3 wound attacks hitting on 3+. I only take 2 Hammers because they are so expensive and I'd rather loose the cheaper Pick wielding models and have the Hammers models get into combat.

Compare to a 10 model unit of Acolyte Hybrids with 4x Heavy Rock Saws is 206 points. That's 10 wounds at toughness 3, 5+ save. Also pretty squishy...but I think Toughness 3 is a lot worse than Toughness 4. 8x S8 attacks, -4 AP, 2 wounds hitting on 3+

If you go to AM you get Bullgryns. For 168 points you get 4x Bullgryns with Power Mauls. that's 12 wounds at toughness 5, 4+ save. You get 12 attacks at S7, -1ap, 2wounds, that goes up to 16 attacks on the charge. For 119 points you get a Chimera with Heavy Flamers to carry them. Bullgryns are WAY more durable than the Aberrants but do not hit as hard. Not they could potentially do a psuedo Cult Ambush by coming in from a table edge via the Dagger of Tusakh.

For Toughness 8 vehicles and monsters I think the Acolyte squads with higher model counts (12+ models) might be the best choice, especially ambushing with a Primus, now hitting on 2's. If you go to 15 count you can take 2 more Cutters (or Drills or Cutters) or 2 Demo charges. If you really need to stretch the units capacities you can buff then with a Power From Beyond for S10 Rocksaw attacks. Power From Beyond also grants an extra attack so now you've got 3x S10 attacks, -4 AP, 2 wounds hitting on 3+ per Rocksaw model. Also don't discount the cultist knife attacks, especially when buffed to S5.

Just for comparison a 15 model Acolyte Squad with 4x Rocksaw and 2x Democharges is 288 points. You can loose 9 wounds in this squad before removing a special weapon - good luck with Morale though. A 20 count Purestrain Genestealer squad is 300, though that squad cannot crack big armour very easily.

The Aberramts are so expensive per Hit Roll you have to make...even if they are hard hitting. I'd rather have more chances to hit with moderate damage that hit hard once or twice.


Very nice, that's sound assessment of Aberrants in my opinion, even if we disagree with their usability.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/30 17:49:48


Post by: Caspian89


Listened to advice and revised my army list:

2001 Points, 2 Detachments, 7 CPs
Spoiler:
GSC - Battallion Detachment
HQ
- Magus (Mind Control)
- Magus (Mass Hypnosis)
- Patriarch (Power from Beyond)
- Primus

Troops
- Acolyte Hybrids (x15) w/ 4x Heavy Rock Saws, 2x Demo Charges (Ambush w/Primus for Armour cracking)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher (Ambush w/Magus)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher, 2x Mining Laser (Ambush w/Magus)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), HWT: Heavy Bolter (Bubble wrap tanks)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10) HWT: Heavy Bolter (Bubble wrap tanks)

Elite
-18x Genestealers (Infantry blender)

Fast Attack
-Armoured Sentinel, Heavy Flamer (resilient disruption)
-Armoured Sentinel, Heavy Flamer (resilient disruption)

AM Vanguard Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Battle Cannon, hull mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Kurov's Aquila (Firebase hitting on 3+, rerolling wounds)
-Tank Commander, Battle Cannon, hull mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber (Firebase hitting on 3+, rerolling wounds)

Elite
- Hades Breaching Drill Squadron, w/10x Veterans, 2x Plasma Guns, 1x Plasma Pistol, 7x Shotguns (Armour cracking)
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles (disruption....I have to try them)
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles


I put my anticipated battlefield roles next to the units. I have increased the melee capacity at the cost of the Basilisks and two Sentinels.

Is it crazy to put so many points into the Tank Commanders? I figure I should go all-in on those guys, bubble wrapping with Neophytes. I do not want to be firing Lascannons on 4+'s..it hurts too much.

The Neophyte/Magus Squads are supporting units, ideally popping up in cover and shooting/psyching.

I bought a Goliath model and now I feel like an ass not using it...


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/31 06:47:04


Post by: Kandela


Caspian89 wrote:
Listened to advice and revised my army list:

2001 Points, 2 Detachments, 7 CPs
Spoiler:
GSC - Battallion Detachment
HQ
- Magus (Mind Control)
- Magus (Mass Hypnosis)
- Patriarch (Power from Beyond)
- Primus

Troops
- Acolyte Hybrids (x15) w/ 4x Heavy Rock Saws, 2x Demo Charges (Ambush w/Primus for Armour cracking)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher (Ambush w/Magus)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher, 2x Mining Laser (Ambush w/Magus)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), HWT: Heavy Bolter (Bubble wrap tanks)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10) HWT: Heavy Bolter (Bubble wrap tanks)

Elite
-18x Genestealers (Infantry blender)

Fast Attack
-Armoured Sentinel, Heavy Flamer (resilient disruption)
-Armoured Sentinel, Heavy Flamer (resilient disruption)

AM Vanguard Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Battle Cannon, hull mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Kurov's Aquila (Firebase hitting on 3+, rerolling wounds)
-Tank Commander, Battle Cannon, hull mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber (Firebase hitting on 3+, rerolling wounds)

Elite
- Hades Breaching Drill Squadron, w/10x Veterans, 2x Plasma Guns, 1x Plasma Pistol, 7x Shotguns (Armour cracking)
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles (disruption....I have to try them)
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles


I put my anticipated battlefield roles next to the units. I have increased the melee capacity at the cost of the Basilisks and two Sentinels.

Is it crazy to put so many points into the Tank Commanders? I figure I should go all-in on those guys, bubble wrapping with Neophytes. I do not want to be firing Lascannons on 4+'s..it hurts too much.

The Neophyte/Magus Squads are supporting units, ideally popping up in cover and shooting/psyching.

I bought a Goliath model and now I feel like an ass not using it...


About Tank Commanders: You are literally paying 35 points for 3+ BS, I don't know if that's worth it (as in - I really don't have an idea, didn't run math on them).
Another problem is this 1 point in 2001. It's not a 2000 list, you would have to ask people for this one point before every game.
Genestealers with Patriarch will blend almost everything.
I'm not so sold on Mind Control power, maybe it would be better to run 2 Mass Hypnosis for better coverage and just smite if you used it with the other Magus (again I don't know, just giving ideas)
I would personally split Acolytes into 10-man squad with 4 heavy rock saws and 5 man squad with demo charges, but maybe you want to make sure that they arrive in decent position with your Primus.
I don't know about Ratlings but if you want to field them go ahead. Just tell us how they fared later


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/10/31 19:39:47


Post by: Caspian89


 Kandela wrote:
Listened to advice and revised my army list:
About Tank Commanders: You are literally paying 35 points for 3+ BS, I don't know if that's worth it (as in - I really don't have an idea, didn't run math on them).
Another problem is this 1 point in 2001. It's not a 2000 list, you would have to ask people for this one point before every game.


I didn't quite realize they were that much more expensive, thanks for the reflection! I messed about a bit with Battlescribe and for the cost of 2x Tank Commanders, all kitted out I can get 3 Battle Cannon Russes w/Heavy Bolter sponsors and hull mount. For the cost of accuracy and wound re-rolls I get additional shots but the real bonus here is a 3rd T8 12wound model that gets the Defenders of Humanity rule for securing objectives. I did some Mathhammer (http://mathhammer8th.surge.sh/):

Assuming I'm shooting a Leman Russ Equivilent target. Toughness 8, 3+ save.

Assuming 1 Tank Commander gets roughly 7 Battlecannon shots per shooting phase using Grinding Advance rules and re-rolls 1's via Tank Orders.
Multiply that by 2 for 14 Battle Cannon shots because two Tank Commanders.
This should yield 3.63 failed saves amounting to roughly 6 or 7 Wounds.

Assuming 1 Leman Russ gets roughly 7 Battlecannon shots per shooting phase using Grinding Advance rules BUT NO re-rolls.
Multiply that by 3 for 21 Battle Cannon shots because of three Russ tanks.
This should yield 3.5 failed saves amounting to roughly 6 or 7 wounds.

There's also very little difference between 18x BS3+ w/reroll 1's VS 27x BS4+ Heavy Bolters shooting Marine Equivilent infantry.

(Hopefully I did it right)
So based on that I WOULD prefer 3x Leman Russ tanks at 4+ BS given that I get an additional tank with 12 more wounds AND an additional bunch of heavy bolter shots as well. It also feels good to roll more dice.

EDIT: Further consideration yields....To take 3x Russes still leaves you short an HQ option for a Spearhead detachment. The Primaris Psycher seems like the no-brainer choice for 40 points. That being the case it makes sense to instead take 1x Tank Commander and 2x Russes....which still leaves you short a Heavy Support choice for the detachment! So I guess it's splitting hairs either way.

As far as the rogue 1 point...I can adjust to avoid difficulties like that. Point taken.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/01 07:40:23


Post by: Kandela


Caspian89 wrote:


Spoiler:
GSC - Battallion Detachment
HQ
- Magus (Mind Control)
- Magus (Mass Hypnosis)
- Patriarch (Power from Beyond)
- Primus

Troops
- Acolyte Hybrids (x15) w/ 4x Heavy Rock Saws, 2x Demo Charges (Ambush w/Primus for Armour cracking)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher (Ambush w/Magus)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), 2x Grenade Launcher, 2x Mining Laser (Ambush w/Magus)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10), HWT: Heavy Bolter (Bubble wrap tanks)
- Neophyte Hybrids (x10) HWT: Heavy Bolter (Bubble wrap tanks)

Elite
-18x Genestealers (Infantry blender)

Fast Attack
-Armoured Sentinel, Heavy Flamer (resilient disruption)
-Armoured Sentinel, Heavy Flamer (resilient disruption)

AM Vanguard Detachment
HQ
-Tank Commander, Battle Cannon, hull mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Kurov's Aquila (Firebase hitting on 3+, rerolling wounds)
-Tank Commander, Battle Cannon, hull mounted Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber (Firebase hitting on 3+, rerolling wounds)

Elite
- Hades Breaching Drill Squadron, w/10x Veterans, 2x Plasma Guns, 1x Plasma Pistol, 7x Shotguns (Armour cracking)
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles (disruption....I have to try them)
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles
-Ratlings (x5), Sniper Rifles


So I've taken a look at your list again and found something weird - you can't have 4 HQs in Battalion Detachment. Right now you have to either ditch one HQ or make a Patrol Detachment with one of your HQ and one troop from your Battalion.
Also for armour cracking squad for Hades breaching drill I would consider Melta - they are going to arrive with deepstrike either way and 2 Meltas are way better at cracking armour than Plasmas.
Additional note: Since you have an IG detachment you should get your Sentinels from IG - Heavy Flamers are 2 points cheaper than Genestealer Cult for some reason.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/01 12:54:13


Post by: Caspian89


 Kandela wrote:

So I've taken a look at your list again and found something weird - you can't have 4 HQs in Battalion Detachment. Right now you have to either ditch one HQ or make a Patrol Detachment with one of your HQ and one troop from your Battalion.
Also for armour cracking squad for Hades breaching drill I would consider Melta - they are going to arrive with deepstrike either way and 2 Meltas are way better at cracking armour than Plasmas.
Additional note: Since you have an IG detachment you should get your Sentinels from IG - Heavy Flamers are 2 points cheaper than Genestealer Cult for some reason.


Thanks for the tips. I hear what you're saying about Meltas...especially since those Vets squads will not have a Commander to help Order them to re-roll those 1's on rapid-fire Plasma shots.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Enjoying this analytical Mathhammer approach so I did some more comparisons. Acolytes (228 pts) VS. Aberhants (222 pts) VS. 15 Genestealers (225pts)
NOTE: I don't know anything about math or probability so I could be totally missing the mark here.

12 Model Acolyte Squad (4x Rock Saw) VS Leman Russ EQ vehicle.
Rock Saw Attacks: 8x S8, AP4, D2. Yields: 2.6 failed saves. Roughly 4-6 wounds.
Rending Claw attacks: 16x S4, AP1, D1. Yields: 1.3 failed saves. Roughly 1 wound. (Don't know how to sort out the Rending aspect...but let's assume +1 Wound)
Knife Attacks: 9x S3, AP0, D1. Yields: 0.4 failed saves. Roughly 0.5 wound.
Average result from a full attack: 8 wounds (roughly)
W/ Primus Buff: 9.5 wounds (roughly)
w/ Power From Beyond: 14 wounds (very roughly)

6 Model Abberhant (3 Hammers/3 Picks) Squad vs Leman Russ EQ vehicle
Hammer Attacks: 6x S10, AP3, D3. Yields: 1.7 failed saves. Roughly 3-6 wounds.
Pick attacks: 6x S7, AP2, Dd3. Yields: .89 failed saves. Roughly 2 wounds.
Average result from a full attack: 5-8 wounds
w/ Primus Buff: 8 wounds, just more likely to be 8 than 5.
w/ Power From Beyond: 12-15 wounds.

15 Genestealers Squad vs Leman Russ EQ vehicle
Rending Claw Attacks: 60x S4, AP1, D1. Yields: This one is a bit beyond me but I think it's around 8 wounds trying to rough in rends...
w/ Patriarch Buff: Very roughly 10
w/ Power From Beyond: very very roughly 20 (!?)

Genestealers win. They have more wounds in their squad and they have an invulnerable save, a higher leadership and are likely to be in range of a Patriarch most of the time to provide the buffs and fearless. Downside is they can't fit in a transport.

It's interesting to see the +1 to Hit isn't as useful as I had though. Increasing Strength though....that seems to yield the most benefit.

So that was my fun for this morning. Back to work.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/02 20:14:47


Post by: Boss Salvage


I crunched some numbers a little harder and got the following vs T8 Sv3+:

12 Model Acolyte Squad (4x Rock Saw)
Full Attak = 8 wounds
Primus Buff = 8 wounds
Power From Beyond = 13 wounds
PFB + HQ Buffs = 18 wounds

6 Model Aberrant Squad (3 Hammers/3 Picks)

Full Attak = 8 wounds
Primus Buff = 11 wounds
Power From Beyond = 13 wounds
PFB + HQ Buffs = 18 wounds

15 Genestealers Squad
Full Attak = 7 wounds
Patriarch Buff = 8 wounds
Power From Beyond = 12 wounds
PFB + HQ Buffs = 15 wounds

Some of those different results are due to rounding before multiplying for damage, such as the Primus seemingly not affecting the Acolytes at all (he added 0.5 saw wounds and 0.5 claw wounds, but all that did was mean I was rounding down instead of up).

I'm pretty impressed with how close they all are, but Stealer survivability feels like it still tips it to them a bit. Curious how the numbers skew vs T7 instead of T8.

- Salvage


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/02 20:37:19


Post by: Caspian89


Wow! Thanks for doing that math and tightening up the numbers. It's also very easy to read. Thanks for condensing the language.

While I will not base my decisions about what to buy/paint totally on average probabilities it does really help a beginner to make sense of their units. It's great to get a cool model and paint it really nicely but that good feeling doesn't last long when you find out it is not nearly as powerful as you hoped. I think this approach can also can give units that a veteran has put aside after two or three bad showing another chance - once they see that maybe they just had a less than average showing.

Acolytes and Abberants get a nod if you don't want to Ambush. They fit well inside a Chimera or Rockgrinder respectively.

Stealers would have to Ambush I think to be of best use. Stealers get another point in their favour because their buff machine - the Patriarch - is so much more powerful than the Primus. When you assume that the squad of 15 is likely to have the Patriarch in the mix the # of wounds goes up substantially. This does not include the additional Smite damage the Patriarch could do as well. Having the Patriarch with Power From Beyond means that those Stealers are far more likely than the other two units to be getting that final epic average of 15 wounds. Stealers are also so much more flexible given their 'fast and deadly' ability to advance and charge. If they wipe out a unit they are more likely to get into contact with another one quickly.

Sadly I think the entire army is outshone by the Genestealers.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/02 21:34:22


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


Figured I'd post this over here as most of the Tyranid stratagems only require the Tyranid Keyword which all GSC have.
Spoiler:

Anything neat we can do with this? The only one that struckout to me was the ability to regen wounds on a leman russ to keep it operational longer.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 09:15:03


Post by: Kandela


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Figured I'd post this over here as most of the Tyranid stratagems only require the Tyranid Keyword which all GSC have.
Spoiler:

Anything neat we can do with this? The only one that struckout to me was the ability to regen wounds on a leman russ to keep it operational longer.


Leman Russ regenerating wounds, anyone thinks about corrupted Marines from Starcraft II?
What struck me as insanely good is Metabolic Overdrive on squad of Aberrants - they have 2 wounds each so 1s are mitigated and moving them twice makes for great charge turn 1 - they will work like a gigantic missile that hits enemy heavy with 8 S10 attacks hitting on 4+. This is gold for Aberrants.

Damn, I need to buy this book, this is gold. Hopefully GW won't change the tyranid keyword in our codex.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 12:21:13


Post by: luke1705


Metabolic overdrive specifies that you cannot charge or shoot...it's an interesting mobility trick for when you need to get to an objective or linebreaker, but not much else from what I can see. Maybe setting up a nice turn 2 charge for a slow infantry unit, but GSC shouldn't ever be missing turn 2 charges Maybe if you roll poorly on the cult ambush table though


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 12:40:06


Post by: Kandela


 luke1705 wrote:
Metabolic overdrive specifies that you cannot charge or shoot...it's an interesting mobility trick for when you need to get to an objective or linebreaker, but not much else from what I can see. Maybe setting up a nice turn 2 charge for a slow infantry unit, but GSC shouldn't ever be missing turn 2 charges Maybe if you roll poorly on the cult ambush table though


Ah, darn it. It was almost cut off. Welp, then nothing other than regenerating Leman Russ comes to my mind. Which is awesome btw.

EDIT: Nvm, found something interesting: You can arrive from Ambush with squad of 10 shotgun Neophytes, and use Single-Minded Annihilation. You get to shoot 40 times at S3, 60 if you get a 5 (as you can either shoot or move d6) on cult ambush roll or 40 S4 if you get 6 (as you can move closer).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 15:55:30


Post by: Strat_N8


 Boss Salvage wrote:

I'm pretty impressed with how close they all are, but Stealer survivability feels like it still tips it to them a bit. Curious how the numbers skew vs T7 instead of T8.


Bit I had done in the old thread:
Spoiler:

(most efficient in category underlined)

VS: T3 5+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip - Using Rending Claw): 12.27 wounds @ 12.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 11.8 wounds @ 18.64 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 11.8 wounds @ 15.25 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 23.76 wounds @ 9.46 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 8.91 wounds @ 12.3 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 8 wounds @ 13.75 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.52 wounds @ 46.5 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.6 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 3.5 wounds @ 20.7 points per wound.


VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (1 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 10.21 wounds @ 20.37 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 9.08 wounds @ 22.24 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.09 wounds @ 53.07 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 2.69 wounds @ 53.53 points per wound.

VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (2 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 14.86 wounds @ 13.9 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 12.6 wounds @ 16.03 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.19 wounds @ 26.46 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 4.59 wounds @ 27 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 5.39 wounds @ 26.71 points per wound.


VS: T5, 3+ Sv.

- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.9 wounds @ 28.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 9.29 wounds @ 17.65 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.63 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 6.94 wounds @20.74 points per wound.

VS: T7, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.23 wounds @ 98.65 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.39 wounds @ 32.44 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.

VS: T8, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 3.2 wounds @ 46.87 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.22 wounds @ 99.09 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 1.44 wounds @ 125 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 6.3 wounds @ 35.7 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 1.08 wounds @ 101.85 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.27 wounds @ 33.63 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 6.65 wounds @ 31.27 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 4.01 wounds @ 57.35 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 5.37 wounds @ 37.61 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.


The calculations didn't include the abilities of the Rock Cutters or Drills which skews them a bit compared to the Saws. Also at the time I didn't realize the Cult Knives always added an extra attack no matter what opposed to granting an extra attack when attacking with them, so some of the Acolyte values might be slightly off given that they do not include the single free knife attack.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

Anything neat we can do with this? The only one that struckout to me was the ability to regen wounds on a leman russ to keep it operational longer.


Feeder Tendrils could be fun seeing as we have access to the AM's command point recovery tools as well. While gimmicky, one could possibly have a list that ends the game with more command points than one started with. Power from the Hive Mind looks nice too, seeing as it does the same thing as the Familiars but for a command point instead of points. Implant Attack and Overrun look potentially useful for relatively low CP cost and Sporefield might be handy for screening purposes (Spore Mines in the index have a rule that they never cost reinforcement points - presumably it remains seeing as the army has a lot of weapons that spawn them).

Also on a more fluff related side of things, I find it very interesting that Hive Fleet Hydra is basically the same color scheme as the GSC Purestrain 'stealers with the addition of black chitin plates.

Picture for reference:
Spoiler:


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 17:59:24


Post by: Kandela


So I have a question regarding list building:
I have a Spearhead Detachment with Magus and 3 Cult Leman Russes, everything have a Tyranid keyword so... is there anything stopping me from developing a "little" pet such as Trygon in this detachment and calling it just Tyranid Detachment?
Cause I now really want a Trygon pet...


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 18:13:10


Post by: Strat_N8


Yes you can put the Trygon in there. However, the Magnus looses Cult Ambush and the Trygon won't benefit from the Hive Fleet Adaptations (and presumably no Tyranid stratagems will be unlocked).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 18:23:10


Post by: Kandela


Great! I have exact points for Trygon Prime. This will be added to my wish-list later next year.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 18:46:01


Post by: Cephalobeard


The idea of combining Guard w/ a GSC detachment and a Supreme Command of 3 Kronons Flyrants is very appealing to me.

Any fun combinations you folks have been able to identify with the Guard codex and the Nid codex now available for combination?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/03 21:17:14


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


Might be a good idea to use Bullgryns to protect things like Malanthropes or help OOE move up the board unharassed due to him being under 9 wounds now. Other than that, any long range support that IG can provide would be nice for Nids. Like a Basilisks or something.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/04 15:57:04


Post by: Caspian89


 Strat_N8 wrote:

Bit I had done in the old thread:
Spoiler:

(most efficient in category underlined)

VS: T3 5+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip - Using Rending Claw): 12.27 wounds @ 12.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 11.8 wounds @ 18.64 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 11.8 wounds @ 15.25 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 23.76 wounds @ 9.46 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 8.91 wounds @ 12.3 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 8 wounds @ 13.75 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.52 wounds @ 46.5 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.6 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 3.5 wounds @ 20.7 points per wound.


VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (1 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 10.21 wounds @ 20.37 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 9.08 wounds @ 22.24 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.09 wounds @ 53.07 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 2.69 wounds @ 53.53 points per wound.

VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (2 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 14.86 wounds @ 13.9 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 12.6 wounds @ 16.03 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.19 wounds @ 26.46 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 4.59 wounds @ 27 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 5.39 wounds @ 26.71 points per wound.


VS: T5, 3+ Sv.

- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.9 wounds @ 28.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 9.29 wounds @ 17.65 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.63 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 6.94 wounds @20.74 points per wound.

VS: T7, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.23 wounds @ 98.65 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.39 wounds @ 32.44 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.

VS: T8, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 3.2 wounds @ 46.87 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.22 wounds @ 99.09 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 1.44 wounds @ 125 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 6.3 wounds @ 35.7 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 1.08 wounds @ 101.85 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.27 wounds @ 33.63 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 6.65 wounds @ 31.27 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 4.01 wounds @ 57.35 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 5.37 wounds @ 37.61 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.


The calculations didn't include the abilities of the Rock Cutters or Drills which skews them a bit compared to the Saws. Also at the time I didn't realize the Cult Knives always added an extra attack no matter what opposed to granting an extra attack when attacking with them, so some of the Acolyte values might be slightly off given that they do not include the single free knife attack.


Thanks for posting your work from before! Good comparisons.

What conclusions did you draw from that math? That the units are specialized? Has the math lined up with your experience in-game?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/04 16:59:55


Post by: Kandela


So I might have watched a little bit too many previews of the new tyranids codex and came to conclusion that Genestealer Cult Smite battery might want to change into Neuropthropes with Zoanthropes in Supreme Command.
First off: It's way easier to amass psykers with Zoanthropes boxes (which come in 3 with bits to make one Neuropthrope) That means with 3 boxes you get 3 Neuropthropes and full unit of 6 Zoanthropes. This makes me pleased.

Second: Neuropthropes allow nearby Zoanthropes to re-roll 1s on psychic test and have the ability to heal itself or the nearby Zoanthropes with its smite power, while itself having 2 powers (so smite and something else). Psychic powers of Tyranids are just bonkers. Catalyst let's you give a Tyranid unit 5+ FNP that also saves vs. mortal wounds (say hello to your new friend - immortal Leman Russ) Onslaught allows a Tyranid unit to advance and shoot assault weapons without penalties. It also allows you to move your heavy weapons and ignore penalties when just moving. And they can still charge, yay for shotguns chaff units! Paroxysm makes the unit fight last, Mass Hypnosis is better but you can only cast it once so second similar power is welcome. Psychic Scream disables random power from enemy psykers.

For nifty 450 points package of 3 Neurothropes with 6 Zoanthropes in Supreme Command you can get not only a buffed-up smite in form of Zoanthropes (3+d3 mortal wounds if in 4-5 unit strong I heard) but also all 4 best powers I described above. Add 2 Magi to your Battalion for Power from Beyond and Mass Hypnosis for maximum screw you. Did I mentioned that Supreme Command gets to choose it's Hive-Fleet adaptation so how about your psykers being perpetually in cover with your Jormungandr hive or 6+FNP if in 6" range from your Neurothropes (aka always) with Leviathan.

If I ever want to try Smite Battery I think I will add Supreme Command of Space Mind Flayers.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/05 22:28:30


Post by: Strat_N8


Caspian89 wrote:
Thanks for posting your work from before! Good comparisons.

What conclusions did you draw from that math? That the units are specialized? Has the math lined up with your experience in-game?



Most of the conclusions found their way into the original post's summations, but for the most part the math has been fairly consistent with how units have performed against various targets on the table-top. Acolytes do best fighting higher toughness models due to the superior strength of their special weapons but have a degree of flexibility due to their cult knives while Genestealers generally speaking blend infantry and Aberrants smash the really tough targets (T9 and T10 - we have someone that runs a Fortress of Redemption fairly often...). Metamorphs and Power Pick Aberrants are the main under-performers, but even then according to the math Whip-Morphs are actually fairly close to Genestealers so long as Flurry of Claws isn't active and Power Picks offer cheaper wounds to soak damage for hammer equipped models in exchange for slightly less efficiency offensively.

The only ones that are arguably unplayable are the Talon-morphs and Claw-morphs. The lack of AP coupled with their cost really hurts their efficiency despite having better accuracy and better strength respectively.


Kandela wrote:Did I mentioned that Supreme Command gets to choose it's Hive-Fleet adaptation so how about your psykers being perpetually in cover with your Jormungandr hive


Jormungandr's adaptation doesn't effect Zoanthropes, as they both have Fly (which the adaptation specifically calls out as ineligible for its effect) and their Invulnerable save is far superior to their armor even in cover anyway (5+ Armor, 4+ in cover vs 3++ invul). That said, it is a fairly nice little module to throw in and does play off the Magi fairly well. Both help with denial extensively - shadow causes a -1 to cast penalty and Magi allow GSC units to deny as psykers when targeted. I think I might lean towards Kronos for the Psychic battery. While the trait has no effect, Kronos' warlord trait and stratagem are both excellent for shutting down opposing psykers (Balethorn Cannon is fairly nice too - Magnus won't like saving on a 5+ armor with no invul). Leviathan plays into our ability to have army wide 6+ FNP coverage so it would probably be my second choice, not sure if any of the others would be particularly useful for zoeys specifically.

Still, part of me is tempted to just flood the board with gaunts as an ally option. Having a sea of gribblies for the foe to contend with would be excellent for an ambush-minded list and there are lots of options with each Hive Fleet to augment them. Jormungandr would actually be great in this instance, as all of the gaunts would basically be upgraded to a 5+ armor which makes for maximum threat saturation when paired with Acolytes and Neophytes. With enough ambush slots one could even take a Ravener brood or two and deploy a few screens further afield with their fleet stratagem too if the rumors are accurate.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/05 22:33:53


Post by: pinecone77


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Caspian89 wrote:
Thanks for posting your work from before! Good comparisons.

What conclusions did you draw from that math? That the units are specialized? Has the math lined up with your experience in-game?



Most of the conclusions found their way into the original post's summations, but for the most part the math has been fairly consistent with how units have performed against various targets on the table-top. Acolytes do best fighting higher toughness models due to the superior strength of their special weapons but have a degree of flexibility due to their cult knives while Genestealers generally speaking blend infantry and Aberrants smash the really tough targets (T9 and T10 - we have someone that runs a Fortress of Redemption fairly often...). Metamorphs and Power Pick Aberrants are the main under-performers, but even then according to the math Whip-Morphs are actually fairly close to Genestealers so long as Flurry of Claws isn't active and Power Picks offer cheaper wounds to soak damage for hammer equipped models in exchange for slightly less efficiency offensively.

The only ones that are arguably unplayable are the Talon-morphs and Claw-morphs. The lack of AP coupled with their cost really hurts their efficiency despite having better accuracy and better strength respectively. I've thinking a Hydra detach with a Tervigon, and two+ Broods of Termagants/Devilgaunts could be a decent "hold the Table" force while the Cultists ambush


Kandela wrote:Did I mentioned that Supreme Command gets to choose it's Hive-Fleet adaptation so how about your psykers being perpetually in cover with your Jormungandr hive


Jormungandr's adaptation doesn't effect Zoanthropes, as they both have Fly (which the adaptation specifically calls out as ineligible for its effect) and their Invulnerable save is far superior to their armor even in cover anyway (5+ Armor, 4+ in cover vs 3++ invul). That said, it is a fairly nice little module to throw in and does play off the Magi fairly well. Both help with denial extensively - shadow causes a -1 to cast penalty and Magi allow units to deny as psykers when targeted). I think I might lean towards Kronos for the Psychic battery. While the trait has no effect, Kronos' warlord trait and stratagem are both excellent for shutting down opposing psykers (Balethorn Cannon is fairly nice too - Magnus won't like saving on a 5+ armor with no invul). Leviathan plays into our ability to have army wide 6+ FNP coverage so it would probably be my second choice, not sure if any of the others would be particularly useful for zoeys specifically.

Still, part of me is tempted to just flood the board with gaunts as an ally option. Having a sea of gribblies for the foe to contend with would be excellent for an ambush-minded list and there are lots of options with each Hive Fleet to augment them. Jormungandr would actually be great in this instance, as all of the gaunts would basically be upgraded to a 5+ armor which makes for maximum threat saturation when paired with Acolytes and Neophytes. With enough ambush slots one could even take a Ravener brood or two and deploy a few screens further afield with their fleet stratagem too if the rumors are accurate.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/05 23:39:48


Post by: Strat_N8


pinecone77 wrote:

I've thinking a Hydra detach with a Tervigon, and two+ Broods of Termagants/Devilgaunts could be a decent "hold the Table" force while the Cultists ambush.


Might actually want Gorgon with that for reroll 1's to wound, as the Tervigon already provides a to-hit reroll and the Gorgon relic would be very nice on them (T9 monster sound good to you?).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 04:44:12


Post by: pinecone77


 Strat_N8 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:

I've thinking a Hydra detach with a Tervigon, and two+ Broods of Termagants/Devilgaunts could be a decent "hold the Table" force while the Cultists ambush.


Might actually want Gorgon with that for reroll 1's to wound, as the Tervigon already provides a to-hit reroll and the Gorgon relic would be very nice on them (T9 monster sound good to you?).
Good thinking! I've just been goofing around building Hydra Fleets because of their way cool Warlord trait. Also Hydra gets re rolls in the fight phase if they outnumber...that might be real handy in the late game if you kept them replenished.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 14:17:16


Post by: the_scotsman


So far in the new edition I am 0-6 with GSC, while most of my other armies, even ones constructed fairly casually, are doing fine (Only lost 1 time so far with Dark Eldar, 1-1 with CWE pre-codex, 2-2 with Thousand Sons) and I'm wondering what the best tactics people have found with units in a couple areas.

1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons? I've been running knives and saws on one squad as a full 20 man blob arriving from ambush with my Primus, but after so many 1-3 results (I have never rolled nor re-rolled a single 4+ for this squad in all 6 of my games) I'm feeling like I need to spread out and hedge my bets more. In 7th I ran 5-man squads, but dropped that in 8th primarily because I no longer had Subterranean Ambush and I had a 1/2 unit limit on ambushers. Is 10-man with 2 saws optimal now?

3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 14:39:00


Post by: Kandela


the_scotsman wrote:
So far in the new edition I am 0-6 with GSC, while most of my other armies, even ones constructed fairly casually, are doing fine (Only lost 1 time so far with Dark Eldar, 1-1 with CWE pre-codex, 2-2 with Thousand Sons) and I'm wondering what the best tactics people have found with units in a couple areas.

1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons? I've been running knives and saws on one squad as a full 20 man blob arriving from ambush with my Primus, but after so many 1-3 results (I have never rolled nor re-rolled a single 4+ for this squad in all 6 of my games) I'm feeling like I need to spread out and hedge my bets more. In 7th I ran 5-man squads, but dropped that in 8th primarily because I no longer had Subterranean Ambush and I had a 1/2 unit limit on ambushers. Is 10-man with 2 saws optimal now?

3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?


1) I prefer Ambush to be honest. You can still re-roll them for command points and these are fairly easy to come by. But a Chimera with double Heavy Flamer is a very nice assault vehicle.

2) I run them in squads of 5-man with double saws. Running anything than full weapon options is such a waste (so 10-man with 4 saws/drills etc.)

3) Don't use Rockgrinder but if I would there is no reason not to take Incinerator in my book.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 14:49:15


Post by: Niiai


Could not genstealers benefit from some Jhormungard ravaners? Wait til the FAQ before you buy this, but they would be great transports for shooty cultists.

Looking at you mining laser.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 16:09:12


Post by: the_scotsman


 Kandela wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
So far in the new edition I am 0-6 with GSC, while most of my other armies, even ones constructed fairly casually, are doing fine (Only lost 1 time so far with Dark Eldar, 1-1 with CWE pre-codex, 2-2 with Thousand Sons) and I'm wondering what the best tactics people have found with units in a couple areas.

1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons? I've been running knives and saws on one squad as a full 20 man blob arriving from ambush with my Primus, but after so many 1-3 results (I have never rolled nor re-rolled a single 4+ for this squad in all 6 of my games) I'm feeling like I need to spread out and hedge my bets more. In 7th I ran 5-man squads, but dropped that in 8th primarily because I no longer had Subterranean Ambush and I had a 1/2 unit limit on ambushers. Is 10-man with 2 saws optimal now?

3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?


1) I prefer Ambush to be honest. You can still re-roll them for command points and these are fairly easy to come by. But a Chimera with double Heavy Flamer is a very nice assault vehicle.

2) I run them in squads of 5-man with double saws. Running anything than full weapon options is such a waste (so 10-man with 4 saws/drills etc.)

3) Don't use Rockgrinder but if I would there is no reason not to take Incinerator in my book.


I'd moved more towards the Seismic over the Incinerator as "least bad" because for the same price as the HML it does 50% more damage on average against the kind of T7 3+ targets my rockgrinders are typically moving towards to attack in melee. still <1hp on average, but .9 wounds vs .6 wounds average from the HML. Hilariously, the Incinerator does almost the same damage as the HML vs a typical vehicle. A+, GW, A+, that HML was definitely dominating the meta in an unhealthy way back when it had 2 shots.

I can run one 10-man with 2 drills+2 saws (I have only bought 2 boxes of Acolytes, 1 of which became a currently-benched Metamorph squad, 1 of which became a full 5 heavy melee weapons, so I only have access to 5 heavy weapons with 24 of the monopose sculpts. Everything's painted, so I'm not willing to go ripping off arms and sawing to swap in my remaining 1 drill. I'll probably give that a shot.

So that brings my Benched+Painted Total to 16 unarmed acolytes, 8x Aberrants, 5x Metamorphs, 20x Neophytes with shotguns, flamers, cult icon, and melee geared sarge, 4x Neophyte Seismic Cannons, 1x Cult Chimera.

Yay most playtested edition ever...


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 22:10:52


Post by: Gremmer


Rockgrinder have their charm, being assault and 12 inch range with auto hit vs all the Eldar shenanigans out there. But yeah, to play competitively I guess a supreme command detach with magus and stealers is the way to go, to bridge miss with some AM. Had my friend offer me a straight 20% discount on all units to make it competetiv the other day :(


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 22:30:44


Post by: pinecone77


Yeah, I feel that the GSC suffers from not having a Codex, but that will change once one comes out. I'd hope to see some point drops on many units, and Brood Brothers get some tactics and Strats as well.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/06 22:59:15


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, I feel that the GSC suffers from not having a Codex, but that will change once one comes out. I'd hope to see some point drops on many units, and Brood Brothers get some tactics and Strats as well.

That'd be nice. I'd also kill to get some AP on our Metamorphs. As it stands there is no reason to use any of their morph weapons other than rending claws.

Also a bit off topic but, GSC looks to be getting a battleforce boxset for the holidays. Picture is very blurry, but looks like it includes all our hqs, a goliath, a set of acolytes, and two neophytes in each flavor. Seems like a fairly good way to stock up on bodies, I'll need to double check to see how much we actually save though.
Spoiler:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yep just took a quick look it's about 62.56USD cheaper. pretty neat


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/07 05:08:48


Post by: pinecone77


It's kind of boring, but in the meantime, Smite spam seems like a completely doable way to win games with GSC....Magus, Primaris, Neuros and Zoeys...lots of tools. Oh and a big Brood of Purestrains.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/07 10:50:16


Post by: Strat_N8


the_scotsman wrote:
1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?


I like both for Genestealers personally. Most of my melee forces tend to be loaded up in vehicles but Genestealers have enough innate mobility and a desire for larger squad sizes that I am comfortable ambushing them too. Main thing to keep in mind is that you don't want your ambushers to be isolated unless you have a strong enough gunline to mop up after the initial ambush has done its work. Most of the time I hold my ambushers back until turn 2-3 as it gives time for the rest of the army to get into charge range and clear away bubblewrap.

the_scotsman wrote:
2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons?


I tend to run 10-strong units with maxed out demolition charges as mechanized troops. Demolition Charges have the advantage of a very strong alpha strike against most targets for a relatively low cost coupled with a perceived loss of threat once the bombs are thrown adding a level of survivability. They need a transport though to insure they can get in range to use the charges (Goliath Truck being the best suited), as most ambush results put them too far away. The other special weapons are also viable, but are more specialized than the Demolition Charges (Saws are strongest vs multi-wound heavy infantry and light vehicles, Cutters are strongest vs characters and monsters, and Drills are strongest vs invuls and high-wound vehicles/monsters due to highest damage potential).

I haven't made especially heavy use of larger squads yet, but that is more due to a lack of special weapons (I have 8 Demolition Charges, 4 Saws, 2 Drills - still need to build some Cutters). The main strength of Acolytes over Genestealers is their access to S8 AP-3/4 weaponry for dealing with tougher targets while retaining a level of anti-infantry flexibility that Aberrants lack.

the_scotsman wrote:
3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?


I actually like the Seismic Cannon when paired with Grenade Launchers, as each basically adds an extra Grenade Launcher with a fixed 4 Frag Grenade shots at 24''-12'' or fixed 2 damage Krak Grenade at 12'', with the added benefit of rends on 6's. Whenever I've fielded them they have done good work against opposing infantry, just leave anti-tank to Acolyte squads.

As far as the Rockgrinder goes I like the Clearance Incinerator for the most part, as it meshes with the assault-minded nature of the vehicle and can still do a lot of work even when the Rockgrinder is on its last legs (also note that it gets 12'' range and the assault-type over a Heavy Flamer, so it can fire after advancing and has more reach). I used to like the Heavy Mining Laser as mine were equipped with them as a holdover from 7th (cheapest gun at the time and I always had them in the Demolition Claw for Tank Hunter) but they basically force the Rock Grinder to a mid-field/backfield role to use which sacrifices their melee capabilities and being 1-shot weapons makes them unappealing on a platform who looses accuracy as it is damaged... I have not tried the Heavy Seismic Cannon yet as none of mine are currently modeled with one (though my most recently added 'grinder has the main weapon slot magnetized), though I think it has potential as a multi-role weapon. Its long range profile meshes with the Heavy Stubber fairly well while the close range shot basically adds extra attacks from the Drilldozer Blade prior to a charge.

the_scotsman wrote:
that HML was definitely dominating the meta in an unhealthy way back when it had 2 shots.


I don't think it ever had 2 shots...

the_scotsman wrote:
So that brings my Benched+Painted Total to 16 unarmed acolytes, 8x Aberrants, 5x Metamorphs, 20x Neophytes with shotguns, flamers, cult icon, and melee geared sarge, 4x Neophyte Seismic Cannons, 1x Cult Chimera.


Apart from the metamorphs most of that should still be usable. I do have a bit of a soft spot for Aberrants as mine tend to do well for me when I can find room to field them. The last time I brought them as a unit of 8 they won the game for me by assassinating one obnoxious Typhus which earned slay the warlord and allowed my other units to clean up his Pox Walker hoards without needing Might from Beyond to counteract his buffs. They should fit nicely in the Chimera and would make a nice back-up for your Acolytes given they have less special weapons than normal (could take a unit of 6 of each in the Chimera - put 2x Drills on the Acolytes and 4x Hammers on the Aberrants).


pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, I feel that the GSC suffers from not having a Codex, but that will change once one comes out. I'd hope to see some point drops on many units, and Brood Brothers get some tactics and Strats as well.


Agreed, though to be fair we are in a better place than most of the remaining non-imperial index armies (non-Tzeench Daemons, Tau, Necrons, and Orks especially). The biggest boon I expect from the codex besides point adjustments is a slight restructuring of the ambush table and the reintroduction of Return to Shadows as a stratagem, which combined should allow entirely ambush-centric lists to be functional again in matched play without needing allies to hold down the table.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:Also a bit off topic but, GSC looks to be getting a battleforce boxset for the holidays. Picture is very blurry, but looks like it includes all our hqs, a goliath, a set of acolytes, and two neophytes in each flavor. Seems like a fairly good way to stock up on bodies, I'll need to double check to see how much we actually save though.
Spoiler:
Yep just took a quick look it's about 62.56USD cheaper. pretty neat


That is exciting! I know a couple people at our gaming group that want to start the army but have no interest in buying a copy of Deathwatch Overkill. This should do it for them. Kinda wish it had a second Goliath or a Chimera with an Iconward in place of the Brood Coven, but that's from someone who already has 3 Overkill sprues...

pinecone77 wrote:
It's kind of boring, but in the meantime, Smite spam seems like a completely doable way to win games with GSC....Magus, Primaris, Neuros and Zoeys...lots of tools. Oh and a big Brood of Purestrains.


GSC mechanized lists are also fairly strong, since all of our vehicles have fairly good offensive capabilities (including Open Topped on the Truck for shooting units) paired with reasonable durability and unlike Orks or AM/Guard our units are generally expensive enough to justify a delivery vehicle to keep them safe.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/07 12:47:00


Post by: pinecone77


Yeah ...I'm just guessing, but I expect return to the shadows to come back as a 1cp strat. But maybe it will be a regular function.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/07 13:47:55


Post by: Strat_N8


pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah ...I'm just guessing, but I expect return to the shadows to come back as a 1cp strat. But maybe it will be a regular function.


I'm expecting it will be a variable cost stratagem depending on how many infantry units you nominate, though it could return as a universal ability (would be nice). Thankfully, both Tyranids and Astra Militarium give us access to command point recovery and our book might come with a few methods of its own.

Also speaking of stratagems, I updated the main post with the allied ones that can be used by the faction. I'll be keeping an eye out for an FAQ regarding the Tyranid ones though, as there are a couple that might have unintended interactions and the sheer amount that only require the target have the Tyranids keyword makes me wonder if they forgot GSC has it too.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/07 14:49:48


Post by: Kandela


 Strat_N8 wrote:


I'm expecting it will be a variable cost stratagem depending on how many infantry units you nominate, though it could return as a universal ability (would be nice). Thankfully, both Tyranids and Astra Militarium give us access to command point recovery and our book might come with a few methods of its own.

Also speaking of stratagems, I updated the main post with the allied ones that can be used by the faction. I'll be keeping an eye out for an FAQ regarding the Tyranid ones though, as there are a couple that might have unintended interactions and the sheer amount that only require the target have the Tyranids keyword makes me wonder if they forgot GSC has it too.


Yeah let's hope that when they find out they won't overreact and remove every Tyranid keyword in the codex
I'm actually quite pleased with how it is right now. We are subpar when alone but thanks for our unique rules we are decent as Tyranid/AM/both soup.


Could someone help me out in figuring out how this conversion was made?

I think it is Goliath Truck on Leman Russ tracks, but it is incredibly well made, it is seamless.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/09 15:47:29


Post by: Caspian89


Sorry can't help with the conversion...other than to say - that's an expensive piece of plastic!

I continue to work on list building - thank-you Battle Scribe! - trying to work out what to paint/buy with my limited resources.

I finally say that the Spearhead, Vanguard and Outrider detachments CAN contain 0-2 of the other battlefield role slots which makes building legal lists much easier for me. Missed that before and it was getting convoluted!

Here is my attempt at a balanced list. 2000 pts. 7 CPs
Spoiler:

GSC Battalion
HQ
Magus [4 PL, 73pts] - Mass Hypnosis
Patriarch [7 PL, 150pts] - Might From Beyond
Primus [4 PL, 76pts]

TROOP
12x Acolyte Hybrids [15 PL, 228pts]
-4x Rock Heavy Rock Saw
5x Acolyte Hybrids [5 PL, 75pts]
-2x Demolition Charges
5x Acolyte Hybrids [5 PL, 75pts]
-2x Demolition Charges
10x Neophyte Hybrids [5 PL, 88pts]
-2x Mining Laser, 2x Grenade Launcher

ELITE
20x Purestrain Genestealers [16 PL, 300pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT
Cult Leman Russ [11 PL, 186pts]
-Battle Cannon, Hull: HVY Bolter, Sponsons: HVY Bolter, HVY Stubber
Cult Leman Russ [11 PL, 186pts]
-Battle Cannon, Hull: HVY Bolter, Sponsons: HVY Bolter
DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Goliath Truck [5 PL, 119pts]
-Demolition Cache

AM OUTRIDER DETACHMENT
HQ
Company Commander [2 PL, 35pts]
-Chainsword, KUROV’S AQUILA, Plasma pistol
FAST ATTACK

Hellhound [6 PL, 120pts]
-Heavy Flamer, Track guards, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]
-Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]
-Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]
-Heavy Flamer

HEAVY SUPPORT
Heavy Weapon Team [78pts]
- 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Team [63pts]
- 3x Autocannon


Your comments and suggestions have been really helpful to date.

This feels like a good mix of unit roles across the table. For long range shooting power there's the Leman Russes - taken as GSC for Force Org. purposes - which are supported and lightly screened by the Heavy Weapons Teams, who benefit from the Company Commander's Orders. For Ambushing into the backfield there is the big Genestealer Squad, Patriarch as well as the 12 model Acolytes w/Primus. For the mid-field and for pressuring the opponent's lines to set-up for a good Ambush I have the Scout Sentinels and Hellhound. The Magus has his supporting Neophytes who can ambush in where needed for support. The demo-charge Acolyte squads mount up in a truck and join the forward assault of the Sentinels/Hellhound hopefully creating too many targets to deal with easily.

Is that too many heavy flamers? Are those heavy weapon teams better as 3x AM Infantry Squads?

I've been submitting a bunch of lists and I appreciate any and all feedback.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/09 16:28:28


Post by: Timeshadow


I think that we really need to make use of our cult ambush to keep up with other armies. Half our army should be reserved every game. Takeing a small Tyranid hive fleet detachment with a lictor or two to hedge our bets for cult ambush seems like an interesting and fluffy thing to do Lictors are vanguard organisms afterall. I'm thinking a Broodlord and 3 lictors (just under 300 pts) is a steal, lets us use a hive fleet and dosent break fluffy immersion (it's just a portion of the cult genestealers mutateing in reaction to an approaching hive fleet). This also gives you access to the new tyranid psychic powers as well.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/09 17:01:04


Post by: Kandela


Caspian89 wrote:
Sorry can't help with the conversion...other than to say - that's an expensive piece of plastic!

I continue to work on list building - thank-you Battle Scribe! - trying to work out what to paint/buy with my limited resources.

I finally say that the Spearhead, Vanguard and Outrider detachments CAN contain 0-2 of the other battlefield role slots which makes building legal lists much easier for me. Missed that before and it was getting convoluted!

Here is my attempt at a balanced list. 2000 pts. 7 CPs
Spoiler:

GSC Battalion
HQ
Magus [4 PL, 73pts] - Mass Hypnosis
Patriarch [7 PL, 150pts] - Might From Beyond
Primus [4 PL, 76pts]

TROOP
12x Acolyte Hybrids [15 PL, 228pts]
-4x Rock Heavy Rock Saw
5x Acolyte Hybrids [5 PL, 75pts]
-2x Demolition Charges
5x Acolyte Hybrids [5 PL, 75pts]
-2x Demolition Charges
10x Neophyte Hybrids [5 PL, 88pts]
-2x Mining Laser, 2x Grenade Launcher

ELITE
20x Purestrain Genestealers [16 PL, 300pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT
Cult Leman Russ [11 PL, 186pts]
-Battle Cannon, Hull: HVY Bolter, Sponsons: HVY Bolter, HVY Stubber
Cult Leman Russ [11 PL, 186pts]
-Battle Cannon, Hull: HVY Bolter, Sponsons: HVY Bolter
DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Goliath Truck [5 PL, 119pts]
-Demolition Cache

AM OUTRIDER DETACHMENT
HQ
Company Commander [2 PL, 35pts]
-Chainsword, KUROV’S AQUILA, Plasma pistol
FAST ATTACK

Hellhound [6 PL, 120pts]
-Heavy Flamer, Track guards, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]
-Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]
-Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 52pts]
-Heavy Flamer

HEAVY SUPPORT
Heavy Weapon Team [78pts]
- 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Team [63pts]
- 3x Autocannon


Your comments and suggestions have been really helpful to date.

This feels like a good mix of unit roles across the table. For long range shooting power there's the Leman Russes - taken as GSC for Force Org. purposes - which are supported and lightly screened by the Heavy Weapons Teams, who benefit from the Company Commander's Orders. For Ambushing into the backfield there is the big Genestealer Squad, Patriarch as well as the 12 model Acolytes w/Primus. For the mid-field and for pressuring the opponent's lines to set-up for a good Ambush I have the Scout Sentinels and Hellhound. The Magus has his supporting Neophytes who can ambush in where needed for support. The demo-charge Acolyte squads mount up in a truck and join the forward assault of the Sentinels/Hellhound hopefully creating too many targets to deal with easily.

Is that too many heavy flamers? Are those heavy weapon teams better as 3x AM Infantry Squads?

I've been submitting a bunch of lists and I appreciate any and all feedback.



In my opinion there is never enough Heavy Flamers.
I actually quite like this list. Not a fan of Heavy Weapons teams myself, would rather see another Leman Russ.
12 Acolytes are quite odd, I would rather see them as 10-man squad with Heavy Weapons teams being both Lascannon.
Demolition charge Acolytes are nice for alpha strike, too bad it's only once per game.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/13 13:43:14


Post by: vipoid


Quick question, guys - if you have a GSC army with one or more IG detachments, are you allowed to make one of the IG HQs your warlord and take relics from the IG book?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/13 20:42:18


Post by: Gremmer


I don’t see why not. Just remember you can’t use anything regiment specific


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/14 03:26:34


Post by: Timeshadow


So I have the Tyranid codex in hand....looking at the relics warlord traits and many of the stratagems.....they all key off the Tyranid KW and "Tyranid" army which all pure GSC units/armies are. It looks like we can use them all unless a FAQ comes down preventing it.

So what do we all think? It would be nice to put Ygmeral factor onto our paterarch or Primus, or give the Paterarch Mawclaws, go with the reduce wounds by one to min of one after beeing damaged WL trait.... Rain down Spore mines with the Strat.... tons of options really it's almost as good as getting a codex ourselves. :-)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/14 12:43:17


Post by: the_scotsman


Timeshadow wrote:
So I have the Tyranid codex in hand....looking at the relics warlord traits and many of the stratagems.....they all key off the Tyranid KW and "Tyranid" army which all pure GSC units/armies are. It looks like we can use them all unless a FAQ comes down preventing it.

So what do we all think? It would be nice to put Ygmeral factor onto our paterarch or Primus, or give the Paterarch Mawclaws, go with the reduce wounds by one to min of one after beeing damaged WL trait.... Rain down Spore mines with the Strat.... tons of options really it's almost as good as getting a codex ourselves. :-)



So far, with my GSC ambush tactics mainly revolving around dropping three nasty "money" units and hoping to get 1-2 into combat, most of my CPs will be going towards "3CP to attack again in combat." Whether that's with my purestrains, my Acolytes, or my Aberrants, I don't know, but this could really help in a situation where 2/3 of my melee threats don't roll well. 3/3, I'm still boned, but that's the nature of the beast with GSC, if you roll in the low 5-10% early you're just hosed for the rest of the game (while on the flipside if you roll in the high 5-10% you auto-win)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/14 17:18:38


Post by: Strat_N8


Timeshadow wrote:So I have the Tyranid codex in hand....looking at the relics warlord traits and many of the stratagems.....they all key off the Tyranid KW and "Tyranid" army which all pure GSC units/armies are. It looks like we can use them all unless a FAQ comes down preventing it.

So what do we all think? It would be nice to put Ygmeral factor onto our patriarch or Primus, or give the Patriarch Mawclaws, go with the reduce wounds by one to min of one after being damaged WL trait.... Rain down Spore mines with the Strat.... tons of options really it's almost as good as getting a codex ourselves. :-)


I'm still waiting on an FAQ in regards to the Relics before making use of them myself, but the ones that can be equipped both look nice. I like the idea of using the Ymgarl Factor to represent an Ymgarl Patriarch (would be a fun modeling project) but the Maw Claws would probably be the best one for him since they grant complete rerolls which are extremely powerful. Spores sadly require reinforcement points to use the stratagem (their Living Bomb rule was modified in the new book).

Didn't occur to me that the Warlord traits were also eligible for use, though again that is probably another item subject to FAQ. Alien Cunning would be nice for the Patriarch though, since you could set him up in Ambush and then redeploy him on the table or vice versa if desired.

the_scotsman wrote:
So far, with my GSC ambush tactics mainly revolving around dropping three nasty "money" units and hoping to get 1-2 into combat, most of my CPs will be going towards "3CP to attack again in combat." Whether that's with my purestrains, my Acolytes, or my Aberrants, I don't know, but this could really help in a situation where 2/3 of my melee threats don't roll well. 3/3, I'm still boned, but that's the nature of the beast with GSC, if you roll in the low 5-10% early you're just hosed for the rest of the game (while on the flipside if you roll in the high 5-10% you auto-win)


I've been leaning somewhat similarly with less mechanized lists, with 1-2 melee units backed up by 2-3 Neophyte ambushers and 1-2 attending characters. I did see an interesting tactic in the Tyranid thread involving the use of Overrun to slingshot 'stealers deeper into enemy lines after obliterating a screening unit and then using Adrenal Surge to have them pile in and fight a second time against their real targets. Its expensive, but it does help bypass speed bumps. Also supposedly Chapter Approved has the old Sub-Terrain Uprising formation bonus returning as a stratagem which should help out a bit.

Also have you been having any better luck since your last post in here?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/16 15:41:37


Post by: Caspian89


Wonder if anyone has anything to say about the advantages/disadvantages of Scout Sentinels (w/HVY Flamers) vs. Lictors. I can't imagine this conversation happening anywhere but this thread.

I'm looking for a disruptive unit that can add some pressure to an opponent while the rest of my army moves up the board or cult ambushes. They both seem like really good tactically diverse units that can do a variety of tasks - I guess you would say they are support units.

They are both about the same cost and they are both 'disposable' units, good at disrupting the enemy. They can tie up vehicles to keep them from shooting, they can soften up a unit of infantry or character, they can grab objectives way across the table. Lictors seem to be a lot easier to kill than Sentinels but Lictors certainly hit a lot harder than the Sentinels, though a Sentinel Power Lifter ( 3attacks, WS4+, S10, -2AP, D3 Damage) is pretty intense and still gets a scout move.

Thanks to a previous post on this thread pointing out how good Lictors could be the Lictor is edging ahead for me because it seems to hit a lot harder than a Sentinel and given some of the Lictor specific stratagems from the Tyranids Codex it seems very strong. The Scout Sentinels can up their armour save and have a variable boost across the table with "Go Recon!" but that seems paltry compared to the fallback, shoot and re-charge one. Not to mention the capacity to attack twice, the Ovverun, the Pheromone Trail, the returning command points, etc ones the Lictor gets. The Lictor cannot deny deepstrike as well as Scout Sentinels but may work better with our army overall.

Taking 3x and a Neurothrope is only 205 points. If you make them Kraken you can always fall back and charge without costing a CP and your movement capacity for objectives is insane with the Kraken strategem. A Kraken Lictor could move 21" for 1 CP in a way that is far more reliable than the "Go Recon." one for Scout Sentinels. The Neurothrope is no slouch either.

And as far as I can tell from the GSC Index entries we can field Lictors in our normal GSC detachments though we lose our ambushing capacity for units in that detachment.

What am I missing about the Scout Sentinel?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/17 15:58:18


Post by: Gremmer


I like the Sentinel as its though, and its harder to screen it away. The T5 vs T4 is really a huge difference vs bolter/heavybolter fire. A well set up army will make it hard for the lictor to charge something worthwhile form ambush ime, but the sentinel with scout move can get close to a screen, with some help from the backline flame the screen away and charge in and lock up something nasty in CC. Oh, and rule of cool mandates thats all sentinels take chainsaws.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/17 19:11:52


Post by: the_scotsman


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:So I have the Tyranid codex in hand....looking at the relics warlord traits and many of the stratagems.....they all key off the Tyranid KW and "Tyranid" army which all pure GSC units/armies are. It looks like we can use them all unless a FAQ comes down preventing it.

So what do we all think? It would be nice to put Ygmeral factor onto our patriarch or Primus, or give the Patriarch Mawclaws, go with the reduce wounds by one to min of one after being damaged WL trait.... Rain down Spore mines with the Strat.... tons of options really it's almost as good as getting a codex ourselves. :-)


I'm still waiting on an FAQ in regards to the Relics before making use of them myself, but the ones that can be equipped both look nice. I like the idea of using the Ymgarl Factor to represent an Ymgarl Patriarch (would be a fun modeling project) but the Maw Claws would probably be the best one for him since they grant complete rerolls which are extremely powerful. Spores sadly require reinforcement points to use the stratagem (their Living Bomb rule was modified in the new book).

Didn't occur to me that the Warlord traits were also eligible for use, though again that is probably another item subject to FAQ. Alien Cunning would be nice for the Patriarch though, since you could set him up in Ambush and then redeploy him on the table or vice versa if desired.

the_scotsman wrote:
So far, with my GSC ambush tactics mainly revolving around dropping three nasty "money" units and hoping to get 1-2 into combat, most of my CPs will be going towards "3CP to attack again in combat." Whether that's with my purestrains, my Acolytes, or my Aberrants, I don't know, but this could really help in a situation where 2/3 of my melee threats don't roll well. 3/3, I'm still boned, but that's the nature of the beast with GSC, if you roll in the low 5-10% early you're just hosed for the rest of the game (while on the flipside if you roll in the high 5-10% you auto-win)


I've been leaning somewhat similarly with less mechanized lists, with 1-2 melee units backed up by 2-3 Neophyte ambushers and 1-2 attending characters. I did see an interesting tactic in the Tyranid thread involving the use of Overrun to slingshot 'stealers deeper into enemy lines after obliterating a screening unit and then using Adrenal Surge to have them pile in and fight a second time against their real targets. Its expensive, but it does help bypass speed bumps. Also supposedly Chapter Approved has the old Sub-Terrain Uprising formation bonus returning as a stratagem which should help out a bit.

Also have you been having any better luck since your last post in here?


I haven't played them since, but I have a game set up this weekend where I will be trying out two Goliath trucks I recently got painted.

If you don't mind me asking, where were you seeing rumors for the GSC stuff in Chapter Approved?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/19 22:33:03


Post by: Strat_N8


Caspian89 wrote:Wonder if anyone has anything to say about the advantages/disadvantages of Scout Sentinels (w/HVY Flamers) vs. Lictors. I can't imagine this conversation happening anywhere but this thread.
[...]

What am I missing about the Scout Sentinel?


The biggest advantage the Scout Sentinel has is that it is more durable and isn't as concerned with opposing screens as Lictors. The other factor to keep in mind is that Lictors are major consumers of command points to use their abilities (albeit with the ability to make back some via Feeder Tendrils) while Scout Sentinels are mostly fine being left to their own devices. The Scout Sentinels also don't impact the amount of ambushes that can be performed while Lictors more or less will always use their Chameleonic Skin ability to deploy and thus "cost" a potential ambush slot.

Also if nothing else, a Scout Sentinel can mount an anti-tank gun on its chassis if needed while Lictors by and large are locked into anti-infantry (though having Rending Claws they can hurt big things, just better off vs infantry).

the_scotsman wrote:
I haven't played them since, but I have a game set up this weekend where I will be trying out two Goliath trucks I recently got painted.


Hope it goes well for you! I've generally had good results from my Goliaths, so hopefully they will serve you well.

the_scotsman wrote:
If you don't mind me asking, where were you seeing rumors for the GSC stuff in Chapter Approved?


http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-deathwatch.html

Take with salt of course. They announced the Chapter Approved book on the Warhammer Community Page for pre-order next week, so previews should start popping up shortly to confirm or reject.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/19 22:49:32


Post by: Eihnlazer


BTW spores do not require reinforcement points. Ive read the rule over and over and while some people will say "only spores spawned by units don't cost reinforcement points" that's not at all what the rule says.


Its just giving examples of things that spawn them. The rule itself clearly says "if you are playing a matched play game, the creation of new spore mines by another unit is free, and the spore mines points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points".

The stuff in parenthesis isn't important towards the context of the whole sentence.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/19 23:49:55


Post by: Strat_N8


It isn't the parenthesis examples that causes them to require reinforcement points unfortunately, it is the condition of being created by another unit. The stratagem isn't another unit so it doesn't qualify for the exemption provided by the Living Bomb rule.

I suppose on a different note, has anyone looked to Mawlocs as ambush support? They have the handy ability to start on the table and use their burrow ability to go into reserve, thus they count towards units that can ambush while still being able to effectively do so themselves. Plus they are very cheap and have a decent number of attacks.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/20 00:03:41


Post by: Eihnlazer


 Strat_N8 wrote:
It isn't the parenthesis examples that causes them to require reinforcement points unfortunately, it is the condition of being created by another unit. The stratagem isn't another unit so it doesn't qualify for the exemption provided by the Living Bomb rule.

I suppose on a different note, has anyone looked to Mawlocs as ambush support? They have the handy ability to start on the table and use their burrow ability to go into reserve, thus they count towards units that can ambush while still being able to effectively do so themselves. Plus they are very cheap and have a decent number of attacks.




The parenthesis is examples of units that spawn them during the game, which they get for free. Noone contested that part.

its the second part that people are getting confused.

AND the spore mines points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points.

That part has nothing to do with them being spawned free, its a seperate clause of the Living bomb rule.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/20 17:52:37


Post by: the_scotsman


Game went alright, my list was 2 battalions of pure GSCs. I had a Primus striking in with 15 Acolytes, maxed out heavy weapons, a Chimera full of stealers and a patriarch, 2 squads of Neophytes with shotguns and flamers, 2 squads of neophytes with lasers and grenade launchers in Goliaths. 2 Battlecannon/Lascannon russes, 1 scout sentinel with HF, and a goliath rockgrinder with a magus and bomb acolytes in it.

I played against a very un-powergamed Ork list and came out well on top in terms of scoring (we played Drawn and Quartered from open war and I won something like 12 to 5) but got pretty much slaughtered and if it had gone past turn 5 I may have been tabled. I had 2 empty goliaths, empty rockgrinder, the Primus on an objective, and a Russ at the end of the game, everything else dead. He had a trukk full of tankbustas, a battlewagon with deffrolla, two empty trukks, a biker big mek, and a handful of ork boyz left by the end.

Despite loading what seems like inordinate amounts of anti-tank into my list, I struggled to take out even one trukk a turn with my full firepower, and I rolled really well with the 15 acolytes and sent them on a huge rampage through 2 units of bikers, a Scorcha, a warboss, and a trukk until finally 20 ork boyz piled out and smashed them to a pulp. All our anti tank shooting is super unreliable, BS4+ mostly Heavy Weapons with no to-hit buffs to be had. So how do we compensate for that and kill tanks successfully?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/20 18:37:41


Post by: Strat_N8


the_scotsman wrote:

I played against a very un-powergamed Ork list and came out well on top in terms of scoring (we played Drawn and Quartered from open war and I won something like 12 to 5) but got pretty much slaughtered and if it had gone past turn 5 I may have been tabled. I had 2 empty goliaths, empty rockgrinder, the Primus on an objective, and a Russ at the end of the game, everything else dead. He had a trukk full of tankbustas, a battlewagon with deffrolla, two empty trukks, a biker big mek, and a handful of ork boyz left by the end.


Congratulations on your victory! Might not have been a power gamer list, but it sounds like it was still a good fight. Most of my games with pure GSC have been pretty casualty heavy for both sides as well, just have to insure that for each unit you give you take something more valuable from the opponent.

the_scotsman wrote:
All our anti tank shooting is super unreliable, BS4+ mostly Heavy Weapons with no to-hit buffs to be had. So how do we compensate for that and kill tanks successfully?


I probably sound like a broken record, but my go-to tank remover has generally been Demolition Charges en-mass (4-ish per Acolyte squad). They usually get a large number of shots (about 12 to 15-ish for me) which helps compensate for BS4+ and overwhelm the target or at least blow a sufficient enough chunk away that one of the other ranged options or a melee squad can finish it off.

Melee is definitely our main way of reliably removing tanks for the time being though. The ranged weapons are chiefly to soften the target up on the approach.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/21 19:33:34


Post by: Eihnlazer


This seems like a fun list:

+++ 2666 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [105 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

+ HQ +

Tempestor Prime: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Tempestor Prime: Astra Militarum Orders, Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions
. 5x Scion: 5x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions
. 5x Scion: 5x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions
. 5x Scion: 5x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions
. 5x Scion: 5x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Malanthropes: Malanthrope

Tervigon: Chameleonic Mutation, Massive Scything Talons, Power: Psychic Scream, Stinger Salvo, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants
. 10x Termagant (Devourer): 10x Devourer
. 19x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants
. 10x Termagant (Devourer): 10x Devourer
. 19x Termagant (Fleshborer)

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward

Patriarch: Power: Mass Hypnosis

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids: 9x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids: 9x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids: 9x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Purestrain Genestealers: 20x Purestrain Genestealer, 20x Purestrain Talons

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/21 20:11:09


Post by: Strat_N8


It looks potentially quite nasty, but I'm not sure if we can take a detachment of purely Miltarium Tempestus models as our Brood Brother allowance with the current FAQ since they don't have a Regiment keyword to replace with <Brood Brothers> and the FAQ specifically forbids the Brood Brothers detachment from taking a regiment doctrine.

Apart from that possible issue, I'd probably try to get some of the command point recovery tools in the AM detachment as Tyranids have quite a few excellent stratagems (most of which currently also work on GSC models) and being able to reclaim spent command points is probably one of the strongest elements AM bring to them. Also there may be some issues with the number of units that want to deploy from reserves compared to the relatively few number that are fine starting on the table. Might be wise to see about adding some weapon teams or sentinels as a means to enable more reserve deployments while also contributing to offense.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/25 01:57:52


Post by: Strat_N8


Some leaks from chapter approved are floating around. Looks like none of our units received a direct cost reduction but quite a bit of equipment got cheaper. Power Hammers dropped 8 points, Power Picks dropped 6 points, Rock Saws dropped 10 points, Seismic Cannons dropped 7 points while the Heavy Seismic Cannon dropped 10 points. Biggest winners here are Aberrants with 4x power picks being 27 points cheaper, 4x hammers being 32 points cheaper, and a 2x2 squad being 24 points cheaper.

I will update the main post once I have a copy myself to confirm.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/25 02:31:23


Post by: Caspian89


It also seems like given that the rumours for the other factions have been accurate that we also get our Warlord trait, Relic and two strategems.

The Relic, if true, is +1 Strength to all Infantry units in 6". With the cost reduction on the Abberants and the potential to give them +1Strength, those 10points Power Picks will be hitting at S8, this makes them very attractive. I can see myself running the relic on a Primus who can Ambush on and off the table (with the new 'return to the shadows'-like stratagem) wherever the buffs are needed.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/26 14:32:22


Post by: zamerion


Im very disappointed without the drop points of acolytes and metamorphs .. and handflammers.. and mutations of metamorphs..

I'll keep waiting for the codex.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/26 14:59:12


Post by: Kandela


I've seen some leaks and you didn't mention the fact that Purestrain Genestealers got points reduced to 15. Not to mention Purstrain Talons being free upgrade now. Don't know how reliable those leaks are though.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/26 15:29:55


Post by: zamerion


Genestealers cost 15 points for months.. (FAQ)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/26 16:17:38


Post by: Strat_N8


One thing that didn't occur to me until reviewing the leaks and comparing to the index, but the Heavy Seismic Cannon is now the cheapest weapon for the Rockgrinder at a full 7 points cheaper than the Clearance Incinerator! I might have to see about building a few more for my magnetized 'grinders...


Caspian89 wrote:
The Relic, if true, is +1 Strength to all Infantry units in 6". With the cost reduction on the Abberants and the potential to give them +1Strength, those 10points Power Picks will be hitting at S8, this makes them very attractive. I can see myself running the relic on a Primus who can Ambush on and off the table (with the new 'return to the shadows'-like stratagem) wherever the buffs are needed.


Sadly the Power Picks are currently Strength User weapons, so at best you can get them up to S7 with both buffs in effect. On the other hand, Hammers would then go to Strength 12 which has some interesting potential as it allows them wound up to T6 on a 2+.

zamerion wrote:Im very disappointed without the drop points of acolytes and metamorphs .. and handflammers.. and mutations of metamorphs..

I'll keep waiting for the codex.


Acolytes did get an indirect cost drop with the Rock Saws almost halving in cost. Of all of their special melee weapons, Saws are the best suited to being deployed en-mass since their main function is strictly consistent damage dealing and the new cost makes them much more affordable. An Acolyte squad of 10 with 4x Saws is now 166 points rather than 206, making them only 16 points more than an equal amount of Purestrains and unlike their kin they aren't as badly impacted by casualties.

Agreed in regards to Metamorphs, it is a shame they didn't look into them with this update. They basically need their unique weapons to be free in order to be viable as they exist now, though I'm expecting they might see a major overhaul come time for the codex.

Kandela wrote:I've seen some leaks and you didn't mention the fact that Purestrain Genestealers got points reduced to 15. Not to mention Purstrain Talons being free upgrade now. Don't know how reliable those leaks are though.


As Zamerion mentioned, both of those changes were made back in the second Xenos 2 FAQ after the first one messed up and made them 10 points each to match Tyranid 'stealers, forgetting that GSC doesn't pay for Rending Claws and Tyranids do.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/26 19:40:08


Post by: Kandela


Here goes me trusting external sources like battlescribe for current point value. Thanks for clarification!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/27 14:03:24


Post by: D6Damager


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Some leaks from chapter approved are floating around. Looks like none of our units received a direct cost reduction but quite a bit of equipment got cheaper. Power Hammers dropped 8 points, Power Picks dropped 6 points, Rock Saws dropped 10 points, Seismic Cannons dropped 7 points while the Heavy Seismic Cannon dropped 10 points. Biggest winners here are Aberrants with 4x power picks being 27 points cheaper, 4x hammers being 32 points cheaper, and a 2x2 squad being 24 points cheaper.

I will update the main post once I have a copy myself to confirm.


I really wish they had put Aberrants in the new battleforce box instead of the HQ options.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/28 03:50:12


Post by: ajax_xaja


So I've just purchased the holiday bundle, and have a bunch of tempestus scions from my previous army. Are they compatible with each other?

What are some of the "must" purchases on the AM side of things? Not really a huge fan of tyranids outside of the GSC stuff, but Lemans and sentinels have always looked cool to me.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/28 09:00:53


Post by: Kandela


ajax_xaja wrote:
So I've just purchased the holiday bundle, and have a bunch of tempestus scions from my previous army. Are they compatible with each other?

What are some of the "must" purchases on the AM side of things? Not really a huge fan of tyranids outside of the GSC stuff, but Lemans and sentinels have always looked cool to me.


Everything AM is compatible with Genestealer Cult (part why I like the army so much).

In my book a "must" purchase is 3 Leman Russes. Now that we have access to Grinding Assault they are very good in Genestealer Cult. Next one are Acolytes with Heavy Rock Saws (2 in each squad). They were good without point decrease, now they are absurdly good. Sentinels with Heavy Flamers do nice as points filler, just don't expect them to do wonders.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/28 13:53:53


Post by: Strat_N8


D6Damager wrote:
I really wish they had put Aberrants in the new battleforce box instead of the HQ options.


That would have been nice, but I can understand why they did not. The current Aberrant models are part of the Overkill sprue with all the other models and don't have a continent place to separate them like the characters had. That said, the new Goliath gang models might make a good substitute. They are about the same size as the Aberrants (and are on the same bases) and the kit comes with what looks like 4 Power Hammers. Just swap the heads and it should work, albeit they will be less mutated that proper Aberrants without a bit of kitbashing.

ajax_xaja wrote:So I've just purchased the holiday bundle, and have a bunch of tempestus scions from my previous army. Are they compatible with each other?.


They should be, though as mentioned prior due to the FAQ on Brood Brothers I'm not sure if you can take a pure Tempestus detachment as your brood brother's allowance since they have a fixed regiment and the FAQ prohibits taking regiments doctrines. The Astra Militarium codex itself allows Scions to be included in another regiment's detachment by ignoring the Scion's regiment keyword, so they should still work when included with other units.

ajax_xaja wrote:
What are some of the "must" purchases on the AM side of things? Not really a huge fan of tyranids outside of the GSC stuff, but Lemans and sentinels have always looked cool to me.


Both Sentinels and Russes have cross-faction compatibility so they aren't a bad place to start. I'd probably look towards the AM artillery units as the next step since they can be hidden out of sight which forces your opponent to come to you which makes things easier for the melee-minded GSC. While I have not had an opportunity to employ them, Ogryns also look like they would pair well with GSC units since they also have a bias towards close combat and provide a solid anvil for the more glass hammer GSC melee units.

Lastly, you probably want a company commander for access to the widest range of AM relics, including things like Kurov's Aquila for command point regeneration.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/29 19:03:27


Post by: Cephalobeard


With Chapter Approved, Acolytes with Rocksaws are pretty Decent, imo.

A squad of 20 with 8 saws and a Primus for making use of the new Stratagem is 410pts, but ends up giving you 18 S8 AP-4 2d, 36 S4 ap- 1d Attacks on the charge if everyone is in range. That's... pretty neat, especially when rolling 3 dice on the table w/ rerolls from the Primus.

2 Squads of those would allow you to, pretty safely, drop in turn one and then again on turn 2 with another use of the stratagem.

I'd like to combine this idea w/ either IG or Tyranids for Stratagem combinations, especially the Nid fight-twice stratagem. Any opinions here, folks? Currently this is a pet idea i'm having fun playing with, and may pick up a few boxes of things just to expand on after/during the Holidays.

Edit: Not to mention might from beyond/using a Lictor to deep strike the Banner Relic in, there's lots of options.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/29 23:41:25


Post by: C4790M


I was crunching the numbers and Aberrants can hit CRAZY hard. Like, kill multiple knights per turn under optimal conditions crazy.

8 Aberrants buffed by Might from Beyond and a Primus using the Adrenaline Surge stratagem deals a whopping 54 wounds on T8/3+ on average. Of course that relies on both a psyker power going off, making the charge, not dying to overwatch and the enemy not smacking the aberrants before they get to attack again, but still thats insane.

Also, Return to the Shadows occurs during the end of the movement phase, so it should be possible to have a primus ferry in a large squad (with very high chances of getting a 5/6 and optional lictor taxi back-up), then return to the shadows in the same turn to set up another drop next turn.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 02:01:58


Post by: Strat_N8


Cephalobeard wrote:With Chapter Approved, Acolytes with Rocksaws are pretty Decent, imo.
I'd like to combine this idea w/ either IG or Tyranids for Stratagem combinations, especially the Nid fight-twice stratagem. Any opinions here, folks? Currently this is a pet idea i'm having fun playing with, and may pick up a few boxes of things just to expand on after/during the Holidays.


Adrenal Surge is probably overkill for a 20-strong unit unless fighting something like a titan, but I like the overall idea (especially as an add-on for 'nids - a dedicated armor cracker is something they usually lack in pure swarm lists since most of their anti-tank is tied to monstrous creatures). If the rumored stratagems turn out to be correct they should make ambushing larger units more viable. Might want to mix some Cutters or Drills into the unit in low numbers, if only to reduce the number of Acolyte boxes that will be needed if not buying bitz separately (16 saws = 16 boxes...).

Also might be worth trying a 20-strong unit with Demolition Charges. You need about 18 to 1-shot Mortarion (probably the toughest model one will see in regular play) with average rolls and the 20-strong unit has almost half of the amount needed if maxed out.

C4790M wrote:I was crunching the numbers and Aberrants can hit CRAZY hard. Like, kill multiple knights per turn under optimal conditions crazy.

8 Aberrants buffed by Might from Beyond and a Primus using the Adrenaline Surge stratagem deals a whopping 54 wounds on T8/3+ on average. Of course that relies on both a psyker power going off, making the charge, not dying to overwatch and the enemy not smacking the aberrants before they get to attack again, but still thats insane.


Very nice! That should be enough to wreck most titans in one go for just a bit more than 250 points before the Primus/Psyker support (throw in another for Mass Hypnosis if the target has good guns). Eight Aberrants with Primus and Magnus will also fit in either of our dedicated transport options as well, so they have some deployment flexibility too.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 15:21:44


Post by: Cephalobeard


One saw squad and one blasting charge squad is growing on me.

The ability to snap out a bunch of shots against things that absolutely need to die with blasting charges, and still being able to charge with normal attacks, seems like it would be decent to have a mix of both.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 20:02:42


Post by: Niiai


How doea the primus work with the new chapter aproved stratagem? Do you roll 3 dice? Is the primus allowed to re-roll some or all of them?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 20:07:21


Post by: Cephalobeard


3 Dice, reroll all 3 if you want. Can't see any reason to the contrary.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 20:13:38


Post by: Niiai


What I read from blood of kittens, it might be an abreviation, but that is how I see it as well. Seems like a very good way to get some genestealers to make the charge from reserves. I am a tyranid player and the cult stealers and the prime comes in at about 145 extra over regular stealers (60 for 20 stealers and 85 for the prime.) But it might be worth it for a good charge.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 21:38:46


Post by: Requizen


Interested in that box set, are the changes in Chapter Approved enough to boost GSC back up? They seemed like they were a bit over-costed before.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 21:42:44


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'd be interested in the box if it didn't have the guardsmen neophytes and the truck. Wish it was just a huge, actual GSC infantry box.

However, yes, I believe the changes are for the better, without a doubt.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 23:06:37


Post by: C4790M


Ran a nid/GSC hybrid list, and I made good use of the chapter approved stratagems. Played Vs Iron Hands SM with a Knight Paladin. The primus guided in 4 habberrants, they got boosted with might from beyond and the knight got mass hypnotised. The aberrants did 15 wounds on the first swing, 3 of them died in retaliation and the survivor did another 6 wounds with adrenaline surge. The same aberrant then proceeded to get roided by MfB each turn and took down a librarian and a predator and ultimately survived the game. Fun times


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/11/30 23:56:01


Post by: Thieros


How did you get a mass hypnosis and a might from the beyond off? Magus and patriarch ambush in that way too? Or. Does familiar allow you to cast any broodmind spell aside from one you casted already?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 08:42:47


Post by: C4790M


I ambushed 3 magi alongside, one with each power and used mind control on the superheavy to bait out the deny he had nearby, using LoS blocking terrain to prevent his other psykers from being able to deny. I did get very lucky with the consistent power success though


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 14:05:06


Post by: Cephalobeard


I'm fairly certain LoS is irrelevant for DTW.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 14:32:47


Post by: Resin Glazed Guardsman


Guard player here, looking to join the cult. Playing around with wanting to bring some extra melee punch to my lists with some acolytes, genestealers, and abberants supported by a patriarch magus and a primus or two.

Would running 2 10 man squads of acolytes with rock saws and a rock cutter or drill in the mix be a viable competitive idea? I should have a ton of CP to re-roll any undesirable shadows rolls ontop of the re-rolls the primus allows. Patriarch would run with 20 stealers, and 8 abberants would come in with a primus as well.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 14:51:51


Post by: the_scotsman


Its kind of a minor topic at this point, but how are folks feeling about the Seismic Cannon mini-version now that it's been nearly halved in cost? its still garbage outside of 12" range (4 lasgun shots...smh GW what the frick...) but since we have very good ways to get inside 12", how do you think two seismics for 20pts will stack up in an ambushing neophyte squad with 2 GLs as well?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 15:14:16


Post by: Kandela


 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Guard player here, looking to join the cult. Playing around with wanting to bring some extra melee punch to my lists with some acolytes, genestealers, and abberants supported by a patriarch magus and a primus or two.

Would running 2 10 man squads of acolytes with rock saws and a rock cutter or drill in the mix be a viable competitive idea? I should have a ton of CP to re-roll any undesirable shadows rolls ontop of the re-rolls the primus allows. Patriarch would run with 20 stealers, and 8 abberants would come in with a primus as well.


Hello Brood Brother!

If running 10 man squads you almost surely need to equip 4 of them with special weapons - it's kind of a waste otherwise in my opinion. So far the best option is Heavy Rock Saw (as it got points decreased) and Demolition Charges (as they are very cheap and effective). You could convert a Rock Cutter to Rock Saw using spare bits from Chainswords or those bladed circles from Goliath Truck (or rather the Rockgrinder version).

Patriarch with 20 Genestealers will break face most assuredly.

Good luck getting 8 Aberrant with Power Hammers (the best option) though... It would require at the very least 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill at least if you convert those with picks to have hammers.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 16:15:48


Post by: Aeneades


Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Finally (sorry for all the questions), is the Deathwatch Overkill still worth picking up if I have both Battleforce boxes?

Thanks


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 16:54:18


Post by: Resin Glazed Guardsman


 Kandela wrote:
Good luck getting 8 Aberrant with Power Hammers (the best option) though... It would require at the very least 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill at least if you convert those with picks to have hammers.


Already picked up 4 from eBay and currently the high bidder on 4 more.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 17:13:25


Post by: C4790M


 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm fairly certain LoS is irrelevant for DTW.


Well I learned somthing new today, thank you.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 18:58:05


Post by: Kandela


Aeneades wrote:
Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Finally (sorry for all the questions), is the Deathwatch Overkill still worth picking up if I have both Battleforce boxes?

Thanks


Though I'm weird in that I like my Cultists as meatshields for my Magi (their rule rocks!) I heard that optimal use of GSC xmasbox and AM xmasbox is to take the mining suit cultists and acolytes with some added Genestealers and a Patriarch with Magi as one detachment and taking AM looking cultists as AM with the AM box as Battalion. People like their orders and AM is very competitive right now. Besides you get a Chimera, Leman Russ and Sentinel - all of which can be used as GSC.

Deathwatch Overkill is in my opinion still worth taking if you want more cultists and HQs. It's also the only source of Aberrants right now (though they are equipped with two different weapons - so if you want 4 of the same you have to convert them or buy two boxes). Acolytes that come in that box are pretty useless in my opinion as they don't come with any special weapons.

Hope that helps.


 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
 Kandela wrote:
Good luck getting 8 Aberrant with Power Hammers (the best option) though... It would require at the very least 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill at least if you convert those with picks to have hammers.


Already picked up 4 from eBay and currently the high bidder on 4 more.


Man, I envy you. In my region eBay asks for ludicrous amount of money for transit.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/01 20:39:38


Post by: Resin Glazed Guardsman


Granted they are the ones from the box set and I'm not going to bother trying to replace the picks with hammers, just run them as is.

I play with a small group of people and no one really minds about WYSIWYG.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/02 00:25:05


Post by: C4790M


The pick to hammer conversion is really easy though, jus cover one end in greenstuff then square it off once it dries


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/02 15:21:48


Post by: Strat_N8


Requizen wrote:Interested in that box set, are the changes in Chapter Approved enough to boost GSC back up? They seemed like they were a bit over-costed before.


While the points adjustments are nice, I'd say the biggest area of improvement is the new stratagems. When combined they revitalized ambush-centric lists since units can once again start on the table and be reliably redeployed where they are needed. Also larger units are now more viable since the points investment isn't stranded in whatever table section they arrived after ambushing, allowing more work to be gotten out of them.

I'll be picking up my copy of Chapter Approved today before bed, so I'll see about updating the main post over the weekend with the new content.

the_scotsman wrote:Its kind of a minor topic at this point, but how are folks feeling about the Seismic Cannon mini-version now that it's been nearly halved in cost? its still garbage outside of 12" range (4 lasgun shots...smh GW what the frick...) but since we have very good ways to get inside 12", how do you think two seismics for 20pts will stack up in an ambushing neophyte squad with 2 GLs as well?


I'd definitely run them with the grenade launchers, but don't discount their capabilities at long range either. Four Lasgun shots per gun doesn't sound impressive, but combined with the grenade launchers you are adding a minimum of 10 extra shots to the unit outside of rapid fire range which allows the Neophytes to trade shots against rapid-fire wielding opponents without exposing themselves to the opponent's double tap. The other benefit is that the guns allow most of the squad's firepower to be concentrated in 4 models that you can insure will die last, so the loss of firepower isn't as drastic as it is on a Guardsmen squad for instance.

10 Guardsmen with First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!: 20 shots.
10 Neophytes with Seismic Cannons/Grenade Launchers: 16-26 shots, 21 shots on average.
vs.
5 Guardsmen with First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!: 10 shots. (50% loss of firepower)
5 Neophytes with Seismic Cannons/Grenade Launchers: 11-21 shots, 16 shots on average. (24% loss of firepower)

Cephalobeard wrote:I'd be interested in the box if it didn't have the guardsmen neophytes and the truck. Wish it was just a huge, actual GSC infantry box.


To be fair, that is basically what the Overkill box is if you ignore the Deathwatch and game parts. If I could make a tweak to the battleforce, I'd have swapped the Brood Coven for an Acolyte Iconward and another vehicle or maybe more Acolytes/Genestealers. Still, it is a nice box for someone starting out as it covers almost all of the HQs and gives a good assortment of models for a battalion, just not so nice for someone like me who already has 3 Overkill boxes and doesn't really need more Patriarchs/Primus/Magi.

Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Would running 2 10 man squads of acolytes with rock saws and a rock cutter or drill in the mix be a viable competitive idea? I should have a ton of CP to re-roll any undesirable shadows rolls ontop of the re-rolls the primus allows. Patriarch would run with 20 stealers, and 8 abberants would come in with a primus as well.


Ten-strong with maxed out special weapons has more or less been how I have been running my Acolyte squads pre-Chapter Approved, though with the new stratagems you may be better served running them in a squad of 20 if you are only planning on ambushing them since it makes Cult Icons and stratagems more efficient. With 10-strong units I'd borrow a Chimera from your Guard collection to transport them around while leaving open the possibility of ambush if a good opportunity presents itself.

As for weapons, Saws are your general purpose weapon best used en-mass while the Cutters are for character/monster hunting and the Drills are for hunting large targets in general due to their high damage potential. Demolition Charges are a strong alpha strike weapon that can be thought of as being akin to one-use melta weapons in operation, though with much higher damage potential due to the greater volume of shots at the cost of short range.

Aeneades wrote:Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?


Welcome back! The Astra Militarum box should suffice nicely, as it gives you the ability to use the bulk of the contents (save Commissar) as part of your GSC army or expand a Brood Brothers detachment if you want access to the rest of the AM armory. Most of the options available to the Cadians in their box are also available to Neophytes, so you needn't be too concerned over building them as one or the other save for maybe some head swaps (Neophyte heads look much better).

Aeneades wrote:
(sorry for all the questions)


No need to apologize for asking questions, we're here to help!


 Kandela wrote:

Acolytes that come in that box are pretty useless in my opinion as they don't come with any special weapons.


Actually they are quite useful for filling out the generic models in a squad. The Overkill box basically comes with two squads of 6 Acolytes (with the robed models being squad leaders), so you only need to provide 4 special weapons to fill out a 10-strong unit. Getting 4 special weapons out of a single Acolyte box is fairly easy (2x Demolition Charges + 1 of each other weapon) so you can build enough equipment for both squads with just two of them.

C4790M wrote:
The pick to hammer conversion is really easy though, jus cover one end in greenstuff then square it off once it dries


The new Necromunda Goliath gang box also comes with at least 2 Power Hammers in it, so if you know anyone with the kit they may be willing to part with a few if they didn't use them. Admittedly, the Goliath gang in general would probably make some nice Aberrants with a bit of kitbashing (add a Rending Claw/extra arm somewhere and swap punk head with a 2nd generation acolyte head).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/02 15:34:32


Post by: C4790M


I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/02 15:56:26


Post by: Strat_N8


C4790M wrote:
I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good


You wouldn't happen to have pictures would you? Would be neat to see as proof of concept.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/02 23:24:39


Post by: Niiai


C4790M wrote:
I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good


Do you mean the necromunda goliaths?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/03 10:01:55


Post by: C4790M


 Strat_N8 wrote:
C4790M wrote:
I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good


You wouldn't happen to have pictures would you? Would be neat to see as proof of concept.


http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/54298/c4790m-cheap-knockoffs-conversion-compilation

The Aberrants are down at the bottom of the post. Would love some feedback on them. Some aren’t strictly WYSIWYG as they have saws/choppas instead of hammers, but they’re close enough for casual. I deliberately went inconsistent with the size and number of arms as they supposed to be highly mutated


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/03 19:14:55


Post by: Strat_N8


Nice! Those turned out really well. I'll have to see about converting a few myself to diversify my forces a bit.

In regards to the test color, for mine I used my Hive Fleet's skin color on the alien parts with a complimentary flesh tone for the human parts (in my case a somewhat tanned flesh, since the Tyranid skin is a brownish orange) and used the chitin color for the face plates and spines. Given your Hive Fleet has a fairly dark green skin, I'd probably use something like Death Guard Green or Deathworld Forest for the hybrid skin so the flesh stands out from the mutations.


In other news, the main thread has been updated with the new material from Chapter Approved.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/03 20:30:23


Post by: EnTyme


I like the abberant conversions, C4790M. The 3rd-generation heads look best IMO.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 00:11:20


Post by: C4790M


Thanks for the feedback on the aberrants!

Got to play a open war game vs primaris Ultramarines today using a hybrid tyranid/GSC list. A few things:

Aberrants are great at killing primaris
While the primus’ aura is great, I struggle to get it to affect more than one unit, and I also find the primus just sits there awkwardly, contributing nothing except the aura
Acolytes are probably the most fragile glass cannons we have and I’m not sure if its worth the payoff, I’m just going to stick to neophytes in future I think (which is a shame, I love the models)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 13:57:11


Post by: Strat_N8


Tyranid FAQ dropped and among other things GSC no longer can benefit from the Tyranid Stratagems (all instances of "Tyranids" is now Tyranids with <Hive Fleet> keyword) or relics/warlord traits. Bit sad but not entirely unexpected. Since none of the stratagems can be used on GSC models I've taken the liberty of removing them from the original post alongside the Astra Militarum ones to simplify the section (I'll probably write up a dedicated ally section and put the handful of cross-faction stratagems left there).

Still, no major nerfs on the Tyranid side of things besides the aforementioned cross-faction capabilities. They should still make a good ally option.

C4790M wrote:

While the primus’ aura is great, I struggle to get it to affect more than one unit, and I also find the primus just sits there awkwardly, contributing nothing except the aura


Is he charging in as well or sitting back? I've generally not had too much difficulty getting multiple units in range if he is in combat as well, but it is easier with low model count units (Aberrants and Rockgrinders especially). His 2+ to wound Rending Claw is actually fairly capable as long as the target isn't a vehicle, though he doesn't want to get into a fight with opposing characters since his defenses aren't that great.

C4790M wrote:

Acolytes are probably the most fragile glass cannons we have and I’m not sure if its worth the payoff, I’m just going to stick to neophytes in future I think (which is a shame, I love the models)


Might also be having a bit of conflict with the Aberrants since melee-minded Acolytes fulfill a similar function in a list (trading raw strength for a bit of flexibility). One of the reasons I like Demolition Charges so much is that they let the squad do a huge chunk of damage in one go and then their perceived threat drops significantly so they tend to live longer. I'm planning on trying out a few larger melee-centric units with our new stratagems at our gaming group this week, so we'll see how it goes.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 14:19:37


Post by: the_scotsman


Aeneades wrote:
Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Finally (sorry for all the questions), is the Deathwatch Overkill still worth picking up if I have both Battleforce boxes?

Thanks


I would say the perfect start to a GSC army would be DWO+Battleforce. The DWO sculpts are incredibly easy to convert using the bits from the multipart kit (the shoulder landing for their arms is perfectly flat, so you just clip them at the shoulders and you can put whatever arms on there) so to get the most out of the 5 multipart acolytes I would recommend using the 12 monopose acolytes and just clipping them, thatr way you can have all the special upgrade weapons and whatnot. The DWO neophytes are monopose as well and harder to convert but they're monopose in the most competitive loadout anyway (Autoguns, GLs, mining lasers).

biggest problem with the pair is you get two broodcovens, which is honestly not a big deal, as youre going to want 2 of most of the HQs anyway, since those three are the good HQs.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 14:29:23


Post by: zamerion


Bad news with the faqs :(


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 15:51:29


Post by: EnTyme


zamerion wrote:
Bad news with the faqs :(


Honestly at this point, we should be expecting that sort of loophole to be closed. Use it while its still there if you must, but don't include it in your longterm strategy.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 16:18:36


Post by: Strat_N8


Still, they were nice enough to wait until Chapter Approved dropped before removing the interactions, so we where able to enjoy some stratagems before getting our own. That said, with Return to Shadows and Meticulous Uprising added to our arsenal we probably will be running shy of command points anyway, as both are very useful and probably will see heavy use.

Anyway, what do people think of our new warlord trait? I think it has a lot of potential but am not sure how to best use it. At first glance it looks perfect for someone guarding the artillery against getting tied up in combat but the only character that is content to operate in the backfield is the Iconward since his abilities are mainly defensive in nature while the others need to get closer to make the most of theirs. Also might have some interesting use in mitigating first turn charges since per the rules units that charge can only attack units they declared as targets during the charge sub-phase, so any GSC infantry that intervene can't be chosen as targets unless they too where targeted.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 18:00:19


Post by: Caspian89


Wondering if anyone has found any bits that are suitable replacements for the Heavy Rock Saws? Anything we can make use of with the stock DWO Acolyte Hybrids. The availability of Heavy Rock Saw bits is all but completely dried up. Even if there was supply they are VERY expensive. I realize there are probably good buzz saw bits in Orc kits but is there anything that has hands, etc, that could get glued onto Acolytes without too, too much extra sculpting or modelling?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 18:49:51


Post by: Strat_N8


Not sure if the scale would work, but you might be able to take the Kill Saws from the Mega Nob box and combine them with one of the other weapons for a mounting. The clampack Mek has an arm fitted kill saw that might be able to fit on an Acolyte arm without issue, but it will probably be a fairly expensive piece given how relatively unpopular that particular kit is. Another possible option would be to take a spare Eviscerator and attach the blade to one of the heavy weapon chassis to make a "Heavy Rock Chainsaw".

Bit surprised that the Rock Saws have disappeared from the secondary market... Hopefully that is a good sign?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 18:55:08


Post by: Benlisted


I'm not entirely convinced that Cult can no longer use Nid strats and Psychic powers, etc. Ysee, the wording of the FaQ is as follows:

Change the first sentence to read:
‘In this section you’ll find rules for Battle-forged armies
that include Tyranids Detachments.’
Add the following section before ‘Abilities’:
‘Tyranids Units
In the rules described in this section we often refer to
‘Tyranids units’. This is shorthand for any Tyranids
unit that also has the <Hive Fleet> keyword. A Tyranids
Detachment is therefore one which only includes units
with both the Tyranids and <Hive Fleet> keyword
.
Note that although Genestealer Cults are devoted to
the Hive Mind and will willingly fight alongside their
xenos masters, they deviate significantly in terms of
organisation and tactics, not to mention physiology!
Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of
any of the rules listed in this section (this includes the
Detachment abilities, Stratagems, bio-artefacts, psychic
powers, Warlord Traits and Tactical Objectives described
in this section), and instead have their own rules.’


Essentially, a "Tyranids unit" is a <Hive Fleet> Tyranids unit. But all the stratagems, powers, and such refer to TYRANIDS units. So verbatim, they can still be used on them (though admittedly this contradicts the "make use of" part of the text in the FaQ. It's ambiguous, as they're lumped into a lot of things like relics, WL traits, etc, that you definitely can't get, so who knows what the intent was really. There's certainly precedent from last edition for Cult being able to use Catalyst (I think?) - but I am personally inclined to think they wanted to dissassociate the two entirely and just got lazy with the wording.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 19:15:03


Post by: C4790M


Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of any of the rules listed in this section”

Nothing with the GSC keyword can utilise any Codex:Tyranids stuff :(


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 19:21:32


Post by: Benlisted


C4790M wrote:
Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of any of the rules listed in this section”

Nothing with the GSC keyword can utilise any Codex:Tyranids stuff :(


Oh yeah, sorry, didn't explicitly quote this and what I said still stands. The perspective you could take is that that refers to strats being enabled by having a Cult detachment. Basically the problem is that "cannot make use of" is vague - what is making use of? Does having Catalyst cast on you count as making use of, for instance? Intent is you can't I think, but basically GW are bad at making things explicit...

I wouldn't try to do this in a game tbh, but the ambiguity is there and could be cleared up.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 19:22:05


Post by: Strat_N8


I suppose it might be something for YMDC, though I think the intent is to restrict the Tyranid things to the actual Tyranids. Granted, the Chaos Space Marine codex has similar restrictions towards the Thousand Suns and Death Guard in their stratagem/relic section and the Death Guard FAQ clarified that stratagems work on units in different detachments and factions so long as the targeting keywords match (example given was the Tide of Traitors and Death Guard Cultists) which implied the restriction was that a Death Guard or Thousand Suns detachment did not unlock the various things for use, only a Chaos Space Marine detachment. Admittedly, there is still the issue of the bit that states that "Tyranid Units" in the section means "Tyranid unit with <Hive Fleet> keyword" which GSC models obviously are not.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 19:33:26


Post by: the_scotsman


Benlisted wrote:
C4790M wrote:
Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of any of the rules listed in this section”

Nothing with the GSC keyword can utilise any Codex:Tyranids stuff :(


Oh yeah, sorry, didn't explicitly quote this and what I said still stands. The perspective you could take is that that refers to strats being enabled by having a Cult detachment. Basically the problem is that "cannot make use of" is vague - what is making use of? Does having Catalyst cast on you count as making use of, for instance? Intent is you can't I think, but basically GW are bad at making things explicit...

I wouldn't try to do this in a game tbh, but the ambiguity is there and could be cleared up.


This feels more like one of those "I really want there to be an ambiguity" ambiguities. If, in your eyes "Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of any of the rules listed in this section" does not mean "cannot activate any of the rules in the following section on units with the Genestealer Cults keyword even though they otherwise would be able to due to having the Tyranid keyword", then what would be a more clear wording?

Yes, having Catalyst cast on you counts as "making use of" - what other way is there to make use of a buff power? Reading it to your opponent for psychological effect? Knocking over an opponent's model with the rule printed on a piece of paper to try and cause the model to break so you can call the TO and claim that your opponent is violating WYSIWYG?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 19:44:34


Post by: EnTyme


Don't be that guy, Ben. If it isn't clear by that FAQ that GSC aren't able to use Tyranid strategems, I don't know how else they can make it clear.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 23:23:30


Post by: C4790M


Its a bummer that I can’t buff a squad of haberrants with everything then double-tap with adrenaline surge to have a 23% chance of killing a hieropherant bio-titan in one go anymore, but I guess that was a bit overkill


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/04 23:36:44


Post by: Benlisted


 EnTyme wrote:
Don't be that guy, Ben. If it isn't clear by that FAQ that GSC aren't able to use Tyranid strategems, I don't know how else they can make it clear.


I mean I did already explicitly say I would not play it this way lol...

I still think it should be cleared up more as there is some ambiguity (and precedent as per Chaos stuff discussed above) and this is a pretty big thing. The guy above has a point too - if it was worded as Genecults, then it would be clearer. Butin any case, the point is, if there's any gap at all in the rules people will try and exploit it - exactly as my line of reasoning went, even if my actually having a conscience means I wouldn't. But mostly, any excuse to moan about unclear writing - I do wish they would make proper use of the keywords system though.

Anyway, with the new stratagems, do we think it viable to bring multiple big scary squads in on one turn, or do we want to keep a constant flow of scary stuff almost certainly rolling 6s (i.e. 2x20 purestrains, 8 habberants, each with a primus, bringing one in each turn?

Might also be worth thinking about whether we can combine with some of the almost autocharge Nid shenanigans (Hive Commander, the Kraken strat) to get as much punchy stuff in the opponent's face all at once...


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/05 09:04:43


Post by: C4790M


Honesty, I don’t think the cults can stand around too well without allies right now. I guess the best we can do is ambush one big thing a turn (haberrants/purestrains/big acolyte squads) while a bunch of transports move up the board with more of those inside.
If we want any sort of long-range capability theres no reason to not use guard (or nids) as our artillery (Russ and sentinels) are flat out inferior


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/05 13:29:46


Post by: Caspian89


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Not sure if the scale would work, but you might be able to take the Kill Saws from the Mega Nob box and combine them with one of the other weapons for a mounting. The clampack Mek has an arm fitted kill saw that might be able to fit on an Acolyte arm without issue, but it will probably be a fairly expensive piece given how relatively unpopular that particular kit is. Another possible option would be to take a spare Eviscerator and attach the blade to one of the heavy weapon chassis to make a "Heavy Rock Chainsaw".

Bit surprised that the Rock Saws have disappeared from the secondary market... Hopefully that is a good sign?


I looked around a little while and I think that the Nobz 'big choppas' will fit the scale best of the Acolytes. Plus they are cheap. I can get 8 for $6 USD + shipping. They looks relatively easy to convert too. I'm going to go for it and when I finally get the conversion done..probably in a couple of weeks I'll post the results. The Nobz 'cybork' arm with the Buzzsaw looks great but it's quite a bit more expensive and I also think it'll be harder to convert with.

Sadly the Rock Saws have been in short supply for a while. I was hesitating on pulling the trigger a few months ago and now what few remained are all gone. I think it's a situation of a relatively unpopular army just having the dregs of it's bits supply run out. I don't see stores rushing to -restock until the codex comes out. By then GW may decide to raise the cost of the saw again!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/05 14:43:37


Post by: Strat_N8


C4790M wrote:
Honesty, I don’t think the cults can stand around too well without allies right now. I guess the best we can do is ambush one big thing a turn (haberrants/purestrains/big acolyte squads) while a bunch of transports move up the board with more of those inside.


I think stand-alone cults actually got a bit of a boost with chapter approved. It is easier to deliver large combat units now and two of our heavy hitters are now much more affordable. Plus, the new cost on the Siesmic Cannon makes it a far more attractive weapon for screen clearing and the Rockgrinder version's new cost adds more flexibility for Rockgrinders (can take them at 7 points cheaper than the Incinerator Grinder for a cheap melee vehicle or run them with Demolition Caches for short ranged S8 spam). We also got a rather nice relic that encourages pure GSC since in order to take it the warlord must be from the GSC detachment (no extra relic stratagem).

Caspian89 wrote:

By then GW may decide to raise the cost of the saw again!


I don't see the cost going up again seeing as the Rock Saws are basically a Chainfist without the -1 to hit penalty and Chainfists currently sit at 12 points. If anything, the other weapons will probably see some adjustments downward as well (currently they don't have equivalents in the other armies to compare against).

Also working on a new mathhammer chart for our melee troops with the cost adjustments factored in and it looks like the Power Pick Aberrants with the new cost are now actually reasonably cost efficient against armored infantry now! The Hammers still have them beat when dealing with large targets, but against infantry with a 4+ or better the Picks are more efficient (as they should be).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/05 21:08:58


Post by: ajax_xaja


Anyone have any recommendations on how to build out both the GSC and AM Christmas boxes for someone new to the faction?

I'm thinking:

Rockgrinder over Truck
Acolytes over Metamorphs, with saws in the rockgrinder
Battle Cannon Russ vs everything else
Lascannon armored sentinel(?)
Are maxed units better for neophytes, or do I keep them in 10s? Heavy vs Mining upgrades? Or are they just meatshields?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/06 01:28:35


Post by: Odrankt


Hi all, 1st time poster on this Thread.

I just got a GSC Battleforce box from my other-half as an early Christmas present as I couldn't stop talking about them lol.

Sorry if this is not the place for this kind of post but looking for Guidance and Help so thought this would be a great place to find It!

Anyway, I have a "hoorah" game at my gaming club to end 2017, requirements is to bring an army you started during 8th edition (if you started any) and it is max 1500pts any detachment and everything must share the same Keyword.

I currently have (unbuilt) the GSC Battleforce Box, Tyranids Old Start Collecting box and old Swarm box as well as access to 23 Genestealers. I can also get my hands on 4 Russ's, 4 Chimeras and 12 Scouts.

Out of what I listed to my availability, what is the best list I could run for 1500pts? I am unsure of "obviously" Synergies and buffs so any help would be appreciated.

Again, sorry if this is not the thread for this post.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/06 04:14:58


Post by: Strat_N8


ajax_xaja wrote:Anyone have any recommendations on how to build out both the GSC and AM Christmas boxes for someone new to the faction?


Most of those should work out. The only thing I'd suggest differently would be Demolition Charges on the Acolytes instead, as the box only comes with 1x Rock Saw but has 2x Demo charges which will allow you to fill out your special weapon allotment cheaply. The charges are also excellent anti-tank weapons that will pair well with the Rockgrinder.

ajax_xaja wrote:
Are maxed units better for neophytes, or do I keep them in 10s? Heavy vs Mining upgrades? Or are they just meatshields?


Depends on what you are doing with them. Ambushing squads like larger units for more force concentration on the area they arrive and are more efficient targets for stratagems and psychic buffs while the 10-man squads are more efficient for spamming special and heavy/mining weaponry and can be mechanized. Weapon teams are good for backfield objective sitter squads while the mining weapons are better for mechanized or ambushing squads. In most cases you will want to max out on the special weaponry as their ability to double up on special/heavy/mining weaponry is one of their biggest advantages over other GEQ units which are generally limited to 1 or 2 per squad rather than 4. In general Grenade Launchers are good for autogun/lasgun squads and flamers are good for shotguns.


Odrankt wrote:Hi all, 1st time poster on this Thread.

I just got a GSC Battleforce box from my other-half as an early Christmas present as I couldn't stop talking about them lol.

Sorry if this is not the place for this kind of post but looking for Guidance and Help so thought this would be a great place to find It!

Anyway, I have a "hoorah" game at my gaming club to end 2017, requirements is to bring an army you started during 8th edition (if you started any) and it is max 1500pts any detachment and everything must share the same Keyword.

I currently have (unbuilt) the GSC Battleforce Box, Tyranids Old Start Collecting box and old Swarm box as well as access to 23 Genestealers. I can also get my hands on 4 Russ's, 4 Chimeras and 12 Scouts.

Out of what I listed to my availability, what is the best list I could run for 1500pts? I am unsure of "obviously" Synergies and buffs so any help would be appreciated.

Again, sorry if this is not the thread for this post.


Welcome! Happy to be of help here. I suppose the first question would be what do you want to be your main detachment (Tyranids or Genestealer Cults)? If you want Tyranids to make up the bulk of the army you could probably make a fairly nice GSC High Command with the Brood Coven and 20x Purestrain Genestealers and run the Tyranid detachment as a Hive Fleet Hydra battalion with maxed out swarm creatures (40x Hormagaunts, 40x Termagants, 20x Gargoyles) and whatever monsters you can make room for (Old One Eye would be good - he can't be targeted with shooting due to character rules and brings some tank cracking ability). Based on your collection it will be a bit harder to do GSC as your primary since you only have 3 GSC troops, but you certainly have enough vehicles to run a fairly mechanized GSC list if desired. If going that route run the Acolytes with a Rockgrinder and the Neophytes with the Chimera while the Russes provide backfield fire support and the Patriarch ambushes alongside his Purestrain kin.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/06 19:38:47


Post by: Odrankt


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Welcome! Happy to be of help here. I suppose the first question would be what do you want to be your main detachment (Tyranids or Genestealer Cults)? If you want Tyranids to make up the bulk of the army you could probably make a fairly nice GSC High Command with the Brood Coven and 20x Purestrain Genestealers and run the Tyranid detachment as a Hive Fleet Hydra battalion with maxed out swarm creatures (40x Hormagaunts, 40x Termagants, 20x Gargoyles) and whatever monsters you can make room for (Old One Eye would be good - he can't be targeted with shooting due to character rules and brings some tank cracking ability). Based on your collection it will be a bit harder to do GSC as your primary since you only have 3 GSC troops, but you certainly have enough vehicles to run a fairly mechanized GSC list if desired. If going that route run the Acolytes with a Rockgrinder and the Neophytes with the Chimera while the Russes provide backfield fire support and the Patriarch ambushes alongside his Purestrain kin.


Thanks for the reply.

Is there a way to play Genestealers/Tyranids/Militarum together? I mainly want to use GSC pure-strain Genestealers w/ HQs for buffs and use the Rock grinder/Goliath to transport the Acolytes/Neophytes. Chimera for transport and mobile flamer of death. Russ's for double Shooting if moved less then half it's movement and Lasgun to kill high Toughness units.

If I was to bring Tyranids I would probably bring their best CC units and mass Hormagaunts/Termagants/ and Garoyles for lots of number. I am also not that familiar with Tyranids so if someone could point out their CC units that would be great! If I can access AM I probably just bring a Baneblade or some Variation of a Baneblade.

I would probably make GSC my main Detachments and Tyranids the secondary. I can get my hands on the Deathwatch Overkill box with all models. Would that be worth the money? Would it be enough to beef up the Battleforce box?

Thanks for the help man, much appreciated!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/06 20:32:53


Post by: the_scotsman


 Odrankt wrote:
 Strat_N8 wrote:
Welcome! Happy to be of help here. I suppose the first question would be what do you want to be your main detachment (Tyranids or Genestealer Cults)? If you want Tyranids to make up the bulk of the army you could probably make a fairly nice GSC High Command with the Brood Coven and 20x Purestrain Genestealers and run the Tyranid detachment as a Hive Fleet Hydra battalion with maxed out swarm creatures (40x Hormagaunts, 40x Termagants, 20x Gargoyles) and whatever monsters you can make room for (Old One Eye would be good - he can't be targeted with shooting due to character rules and brings some tank cracking ability). Based on your collection it will be a bit harder to do GSC as your primary since you only have 3 GSC troops, but you certainly have enough vehicles to run a fairly mechanized GSC list if desired. If going that route run the Acolytes with a Rockgrinder and the Neophytes with the Chimera while the Russes provide backfield fire support and the Patriarch ambushes alongside his Purestrain kin.


Thanks for the reply.

Is there a way to play Genestealers/Tyranids/Militarum together? I mainly want to use GSC pure-strain Genestealers w/ HQs for buffs and use the Rock grinder/Goliath to transport the Acolytes/Neophytes. Chimera for transport and mobile flamer of death. Russ's for double Shooting if moved less then half it's movement and Lasgun to kill high Toughness units.

If I was to bring Tyranids I would probably bring their best CC units and mass Hormagaunts/Termagants/ and Garoyles for lots of number. I am also not that familiar with Tyranids so if someone could point out their CC units that would be great! If I can access AM I probably just bring a Baneblade or some Variation of a Baneblade.

I would probably make GSC my main Detachments and Tyranids the secondary. I can get my hands on the Deathwatch Overkill box with all models. Would that be worth the money? Would it be enough to beef up the Battleforce box?

Thanks for the help man, much appreciated!


IMO deathwatch overkill is the best companion buy to the battleforce. Use it to make tons of acolytes in tons of different weapon configs, and the neophytes in the box are the best weapon config anyway.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/06 23:18:46


Post by: Asmodas


For those working on Aberrant conversions, I have had some luck using Khorne fantasy characters as a basis. I converted a Khorne slaughterpriest into a Hammerant, and an Exalted Deathbringer into a Pickerant. These are not cheap conversions, unfortunately, but they turned out real nice when mixed with pieces from the initiate/acolyte kits.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/07 00:11:03


Post by: Odrankt


IMO deathwatch overkill is the best companion buy to the battleforce. Use it to make tons of acolytes in tons of different weapon configs, and the neophytes in the box are the best weapon config anyway.
Cheers man! A few people told me that the box contains 4 Abberants. Looking at their stats it seems 4-6 Abberants in a Rock grinder w/ Incinerator looks like a fast-reliable way to deploy them and make the most out of them. I imagine this has been discussed before? Lol


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/07 13:14:28


Post by: the_scotsman


 Asmodas wrote:
For those working on Aberrant conversions, I have had some luck using Khorne fantasy characters as a basis. I converted a Khorne slaughterpriest into a Hammerant, and an Exalted Deathbringer into a Pickerant. These are not cheap conversions, unfortunately, but they turned out real nice when mixed with pieces from the initiate/acolyte kits.


The Goliath gang box also comes with a few weapons that are really great for Aberrants. I'm converting 4 Aberrants out of my box and the other 6 are going to my orks as Digganobz.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/07 15:05:05


Post by: Strat_N8


the_scotsman wrote:

[...] the neophytes in the box are the best weapon config anyway.


With the changes to Chapter Approved I'm not sure anymore, at least in terms of the mining lasers. I've been trying to hammer out some math on the newly priced Seismic Cannon and the short-ranged profile has generally been able to keep pace with the Mining Laser until T7+, but is cheaper per wound inflicted and the extra shot gives it a bit of an edge against lower toughness models. The long range profile is also reasonably good against T3 models and beats out the Stubber for damage against models with a 3+ save due to the rending effect and extra shot, though the Stubber is cheaper overall and has longer range.

Here is what I have so far, though I'm not 100% confident on my math (don't try calculating things with no sleep...).
Spoiler:

T3: 5+
Seismic Cannon (far): 0.71 unsaved wounds @ 14 points per wound
Seismic Cannon (close): 0.79 unsaved wounds @ 12 points per wound
Heavy Stubber: 0.65 unsaved wounds @ 12 points per wound
Mining Laser: 0.44 unsaved wounds @ 22 points per wound

T3: 3+
Seismic Cannon (far): 0.53 unsaved wounds @ 18 points per wound
Seismic Cannon (close): 0.51 unsaved wounds @ 19 points per wound
Heavy Stubber: 0.32 unsaved wounds @ 25 points per wound
Mining Laser: 0.38 unsaved wounds @ 26 points per wound

T 4: 3+
Seismic Cannon (far): 0.43 unsaved wounds @ 23 points per wound
Seismic Cannon (close): 0.48 unsaved wounds @ 20 points per wound
Heavy Stubber: 0.24 unsaved wounds @ 33 points per wound
Mining Laser: 0.35 unsaved wounds @ 28 points per wound

T6: 3+, multi wound
Seismic Cannon (far): 0.32 unsaved wounds @ 31 points per wound
Seismic Cannon (close): 0.58 unsaved wounds @ 17 points per wound
Heavy Stubber: 0.16 unsaved wounds @ 50 points per wound
Mining Laser: 0.55 unsaved wounds @ 18 points per wound


T 7: 3+, multi wound
Seismic Cannon (far): 0.32 unsaved wounds @ 31 points per wound
Seismic Cannon (close): 0.49 unsaved wounds @ 20 points per wound
Heavy Stubber: 0.16 unsaved wounds @ 50 points per wound
Mining Laser: 0.55 unsaved wounds @ 18 points per wound


Odrankt wrote:
Is there a way to play Genestealers/Tyranids/Militarum together? I mainly want to use GSC pure-strain Genestealers w/ HQs for buffs and use the Rock grinder/Goliath to transport the Acolytes/Neophytes. Chimera for transport and mobile flamer of death. Russ's for double Shooting if moved less then half it's movement and Lasgun to kill high Toughness units.



Yes. The Brood Brothers rule allows you to take a detachment of Astra Militarum alongside the GSC detachment while ignoring their IMPERIUM keyword, so you can take a Tyranid detachment as well since both Tyranids and GSC share the TYRANIDS keyword.

Odrankt wrote:
If I was to bring Tyranids I would probably bring their best CC units and mass Hormagaunts/Termagants/ and Garoyles for lots of number. I am also not that familiar with Tyranids so if someone could point out their CC units that would be great! If I can access AM I probably just bring a Baneblade or some Variation of a Baneblade.


Most anything with talons is a close combat unit in the Tyranid army. That said, the general consensus so far is that their best CC unit is Genestealers followed by Hive Tyrants and Trygons (honorable mention Raveners vs hoards and Warriors). Hormagaunts (and to a lesser extent Rippers) are mainly for locking down guns while the majority of the other melee-centric creatures tend to be hybrids that can do a bit of shooting and a bit of fighting. I personally like the Haruspex (especially with its cost reduction in the codex) but it is more a bio-bulldozer than an elite melee unit. The Toxicrene also looks neat as another melee-minded beast with a decent selection of shooting as well, but I haven't had a chance to run one yet (it does suffer from a rather nasty damage table...).

Odrankt wrote:Cheers man! A few people told me that the box contains 4 Abberants. Looking at their stats it seems 4-6 Abberants in a Rock grinder w/ Incinerator looks like a fast-reliable way to deploy them and make the most out of them. I imagine this has been discussed before? Lol


Aberrants haven't gotten too much discussion prior to Chapter Approved as they were rather pricey in points and hard to get ahold of in numbers. Chapter Approved gave them an indirect price cut by making their weapons significantly cheaper which made them much more attractive as dedicated armor cracker. As far as delivery goes, Aberrants do pair nicely with the Rockgrinders due to their small squad size, but can also make good use of a Chimera too (in the case of a Chimera you can fit 3 squads worth). There was also some discussion about ambushing a large unit of them in alongside a Primus using the new stratagem to improve their chances of getting a 5 or 6 on the ambush table, but I haven't had an opportunity to try that yet.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/07 17:28:07


Post by: Ratius


Not much help over in general with this. Yee broodbrothers wanna help out a neophyte?

Spoiler:
Im thinking about starting (another ) faction and GSC are high on my watch list.
Currently can pull together
2 x Patriarchs
60 Stealers
Magus
5 neophytes
1 leman russ
1 converted truck thingy
and can ally in a fairly significant portion of pure Nids and AM on top of that.

However Im looking for advice on starter sets, good boxs to get going etc. The current Xmas starter sets look juicy enough and grabbing two would give:
2 more patriarchs, magi, primes etc
2 trucks
and about 50 basic infantry type dudes

The army would be for fun and I'd have no problem proxying a neophyte as a hybrid or whatever else. I also have a large Nid bits box that I can kitbash extra claws or talons or whatnot.
Any recommendations to get up and running?

Secondly my reading of the GSC tactics thread and codex is that GSC rely heavily on swamping the opponent with mostly hth dudes. Their shooting especially long range in a pure GSC build seems very poor.
Also read that the CA table can either be really lethal, very meh (forcing one into a cat n mouse game) or darn bad. Is that true mostly?
Any ideas around decent GSC builds and what to look out for etc?

thanks!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/07 19:10:05


Post by: Asmodas


 Ratius wrote:
Not much help over in general with this. Yee broodbrothers wanna help out a neophyte?

Spoiler:
Im thinking about starting (another ) faction and GSC are high on my watch list.
Currently can pull together
2 x Patriarchs
60 Stealers
Magus
5 neophytes
1 leman russ
1 converted truck thingy
and can ally in a fairly significant portion of pure Nids and AM on top of that.

However Im looking for advice on starter sets, good boxs to get going etc. The current Xmas starter sets look juicy enough and grabbing two would give:
2 more patriarchs, magi, primes etc
2 trucks
and about 50 basic infantry type dudes

The army would be for fun and I'd have no problem proxying a neophyte as a hybrid or whatever else. I also have a large Nid bits box that I can kitbash extra claws or talons or whatnot.
Any recommendations to get up and running?

Secondly my reading of the GSC tactics thread and codex is that GSC rely heavily on swamping the opponent with mostly hth dudes. Their shooting especially long range in a pure GSC build seems very poor.
Also read that the CA table can either be really lethal, very meh (forcing one into a cat n mouse game) or darn bad. Is that true mostly?
Any ideas around decent GSC builds and what to look out for etc?

thanks!


Based on what you already have, I would probably suggest Deathwatch overkill box instead of the other set, as what you are lacking is primarily Aberrants, Neophytes and Acolytes, which.DWO has. Not sure exactly what kind of build you are going for, though, so it is hard to give you much guidance beyond that.

I don't think you are every going to need more than 2 Patriarchs, by the way (even with 60 genestealers ). Extra Magi and Primuses could definitely come in handy, however.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/07 20:31:57


Post by: Ratius


Ok thanks, I'll have a look at some DW boxes

Unsure of a build myself. Im drawn to a giant stealer force backed up by lots of cannon fodder type guys, maybe riding around in trucks and stuff. Will have to try a few builds out via battlescribe etc.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/08 14:21:30


Post by: Kandela


Hey guys,
Since there is no response from general Army List thread I wanted to ask you if my list is any good:
Spoiler:

++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Astra Militarum) ++

+ Elites +

Veterans: 10x Shotgun

+ HQ +

Company Commander: Shotgun

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds: Heavy Flamer, Melta-Cannon, Special Weapons Tank

Hellhounds: Heavy Flamer, Melta-Cannon, Special Weapons Tank

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer Cult) ++

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

It's pretty basic as I wanted to start a Chimera spam list. Basilisks will get me a long ranged support against anything heavier than MEQ, all of my Chimeras have Hunter-Killers too to blow anything 1st turn and then switch into Heavy Bolter turret mode. Hellhounds (Devil Dog configuration - could get them as regular Hellhounds too - not exactly sure) rush ahead of the army and try to scorch the earth for my infantry blobs to arrive via transport. Their main job is to make sure that my Magi are safe and sound. Company Commander as HQ tax and Veterans with shotguns serve as my vanguard.

The idea is that my Cult is deploying large numbers of Chimera chassis based vehicles refurbished as vehicles of war (I won't glue the turret on top - instead I will make something like Salamander Scout Vehicle plates on top with 2 Heavy Bolters).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/08 17:20:17


Post by: the_scotsman


I mean...you're going to have trouble accomplishing much? You've got a bunch of dudes with S3 weaponry and no buffs, a bunch of tanks with hardly any guns on them, and pretty sparse anti tank.

You've certainly achieved chimera spam, but the question is why would you want to spam chimeras?

It'd probably be fine in casual games just on the fact that everything is really barebones with no upgrades meaning you just have a lot of stuff. But any list with a significant shooting alpha strike will just drop in, blow away the basilisks ASAP, and you'd be left with not much to hurt high toughness stuff. HK missiles rarely do anything in my experience.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/08 19:10:41


Post by: lord_blackfang


Fellas, I got Overkill and a Battleforce on the way. Is there a point to two Broodcovens or should I move one and get more dudes?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/08 19:18:59


Post by: Kandela


the_scotsman wrote:
I mean...you're going to have trouble accomplishing much? You've got a bunch of dudes with S3 weaponry and no buffs, a bunch of tanks with hardly any guns on them, and pretty sparse anti tank.

You've certainly achieved chimera spam, but the question is why would you want to spam chimeras?

It'd probably be fine in casual games just on the fact that everything is really barebones with no upgrades meaning you just have a lot of stuff. But any list with a significant shooting alpha strike will just drop in, blow away the basilisks ASAP, and you'd be left with not much to hurt high toughness stuff. HK missiles rarely do anything in my experience.


Hmm, thought about it today really hard.

Came up with a solution - get some Genestealers for Cult Ambush and Vendetta for armor-hunting.

Spoiler:


++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Astra Militarum) ++

+ Elites +

Veterans: Chainsword, 3x Meltagun, 6x Shotgun, Shotgun

+ HQ +

Company Commander: Chainsword, Shotgun

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds: Heavy Flamer, Inferno Cannon, Special Weapons Tank

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

+ Flyer +

Vendetta Gunships
. 2 Twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon
. Vendetta gunship: Twin lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Purestrain Genestealers: 10x Purestrain Genestealer

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Hunter Killer Missile

++ Total: [1730 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/08 19:59:39


Post by: EnTyme


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Fellas, I got Overkill and a Battleforce on the way. Is there a point to two Broodcovens or should I move one and get more dudes?


The extra Patriarch won't get much use, but the other two can come in handy.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/09 16:16:07


Post by: Odrankt


Hey guys, so after yer advice and reading the bios on pg1 I came up with a 1500pt GSC/AM list. I was just wondering if it is legal to play this list and if there is anything wrong that I need to fix as I made it on Battlescribe.

Thanks guys!

Spoiler:
Star gods (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 1500pts]

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum)

No Force Org Slot
Regiment

Astra Millitarum/Imperium

Lord of War

Banesword
Storm Bolter, Twin heavy bolter

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults)

Brood Brothers

HQ

Acolyte Iconward
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Warlord

Magus
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Power: Might From Beyond

Patriarch
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Power: Mind Control

Troops

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
10x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
9x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
9x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Elites

Aberrants
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Aberrant
Power Hammer
Aberrant
Power Pick
Aberrant
Power Hammer
Aberrant
Power Pick
Aberrant
Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Heavy Support

Goliath Rockgrinder
Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Dedicated Transport

Cult Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer




Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/09 16:43:04


Post by: Kandela


 Odrankt wrote:
Hey guys, so after yer advice and reading the bios on pg1 I came up with a 1500pt GSC/AM list. I was just wondering if it is legal to play this list and if there is anything wrong that I need to fix as I made it on Battlescribe.

Thanks guys!

Spoiler:
Star gods (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 1500pts]

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum)

No Force Org Slot
Regiment

Astra Millitarum/Imperium

Lord of War

Banesword
Storm Bolter, Twin heavy bolter

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults)

Brood Brothers

HQ

Acolyte Iconward
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Warlord

Magus
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Power: Might From Beyond

Patriarch
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Power: Mind Control

Troops

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
10x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
9x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
9x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Elites

Aberrants
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Aberrant
Power Hammer
Aberrant
Power Pick
Aberrant
Power Hammer
Aberrant
Power Pick
Aberrant
Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Heavy Support

Goliath Rockgrinder
Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Dedicated Transport

Cult Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer




It is legal list but seriously? Lord of War at 1500? That's seen as dick move at my flgs.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/09 17:12:00


Post by: Odrankt


 Kandela wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Hey guys, so after yer advice and reading the bios on pg1 I came up with a 1500pt GSC/AM list. I was just wondering if it is legal to play this list and if there is anything wrong that I need to fix as I made it on Battlescribe.

Thanks guys!

Spoiler:
Star gods (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [101 PL, 1500pts]

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum)

No Force Org Slot
Regiment

Astra Millitarum/Imperium

Lord of War

Banesword
Storm Bolter, Twin heavy bolter

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults)

Brood Brothers

HQ

Acolyte Iconward
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Warlord

Magus
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Power: Might From Beyond

Patriarch
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Power: Mind Control

Troops

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
10x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
9x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
9x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
Neophyte Leader
Autogun, Autopistol

Elites

Aberrants
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Aberrant
Power Hammer
Aberrant
Power Pick
Aberrant
Power Hammer
Aberrant
Power Pick
Aberrant
Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Heavy Support

Goliath Rockgrinder
Heavy Mining Laser, Heavy Stubber

Dedicated Transport

Cult Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer




It is legal list but seriously? Lord of War at 1500? That's seen as dick move at my flgs.


The guy I'm playing plays AM and usually brings a LoW at 1500pts so it's only there just in case. Otherwise I have a list with 2 russe's and another unit of Genestealers incase he doesn't bring a LoW. I don't really play power list I just don't want my 1st time playing GSC to be a slaughter-fest as the guy I am playing is a pretty big power player. Only playing him as we did a draw system.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 07:20:52


Post by: Kandela


 Odrankt wrote:

The guy I'm playing plays AM and usually brings a LoW at 1500pts so it's only there just in case. Otherwise I have a list with 2 russe's and another unit of Genestealers incase he doesn't bring a LoW. I don't really play power list I just don't want my 1st time playing GSC to be a slaughter-fest as the guy I am playing is a pretty big power player. Only playing him as we did a draw system.


If you are taking LoW to bring justice to this world against someone who brings LoW unexpectedly at 1500 points go for it, hate that kind of players that force your hand


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 10:46:22


Post by: Niiai


I have been flirting with the thought of an alpha strike in my mainly tyranid list.

Most tyranid lists run trygons, genestealers and some thing to remove wrapping. (Jorm or trygon deviigaunts, or a dakka flyrant.) Usuaoly the swarm lord spores inn to garante a charge.

I think a primus with abbreants looks very good as an ally. A lot damage in those hammers. The primus is effectivly the transport, and the hammers offer a lot of high damage attacks, smething nids currently do not have.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 14:56:02


Post by: the_scotsman


Tbh if you're facing a low, it's actually better to just bring a fairly heavy alpha strike.

8 Hammer abberants with a Primus who has the new relic and getting the night from beyond power on them deal 54 wounds on average to LOW T8/2+ stats.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 14:58:35


Post by: Niiai


the_scotsman wrote:
Tbh if you're facing a low, it's actually better to just bring a fairly heavy alpha strike.

8 Hammer abberants with a Primus who has the new relic and getting the night from beyond power on them deal 54 wounds on average to LOW T8/2+ stats.


Would not 8 hammerants be a fairly heavy alpha strike? It is better then much else we have in the tyranid codex.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 17:27:53


Post by: Odrankt


the_scotsman wrote:
Tbh if you're facing a low, it's actually better to just bring a fairly heavy alpha strike.

8 Hammer abberants with a Primus who has the new relic and getting the night from beyond power on them deal 54 wounds on average to LOW T8/2+ stats.


Good point. Would it be better transporting then in a Chimera or Truck? Or would using the Cult Table be the better option?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 18:11:28


Post by: C4790M


 Odrankt wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Tbh if you're facing a low, it's actually better to just bring a fairly heavy alpha strike.

8 Hammer abberants with a Primus who has the new relic and getting the night from beyond power on them deal 54 wounds on average to LOW T8/2+ stats.


Good point. Would it be better transporting then in a Chimera or Truck? Or would using the Cult Table be the better option?


Ambush using the strat that gives you 3 dice, which you can then reroll with the primus


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/10 21:08:23


Post by: gorgon


Isn't the relic only for Iconwards?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/11 09:24:06


Post by: zamerion


 gorgon wrote:
Isn't the relic only for Iconwards?


Yes.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/11 12:27:14


Post by: the_scotsman


Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.

I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/11 12:33:49


Post by: Astmeister


the_scotsman wrote:
Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.

I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.


My calculations say the following for 8 Abberants with Hammers against T8 3+ Save.

Normal:
13.4 wounds

With might from beyond:
20 wounds

With might from beyond and Primus +1 to hit:
26.7 wounds

So unless I am mistaken they need massive support to kill a Baneblade equivalent in 1 phase.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/11 12:57:06


Post by: Niiai


Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/11 13:05:08


Post by: Astmeister


 Niiai wrote:
Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.


Yes, but in the case against T8 models this is no difference, if you have S10, S11 or S12.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/11 23:41:48


Post by: C4790M


 Astmeister wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.

I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.


My calculations say the following for 8 Abberants with Hammers against T8 3+ Save.

Normal:
13.4 wounds

With might from beyond:
20 wounds

With might from beyond and Primus +1 to hit:
26.7 wounds

So unless I am mistaken they need massive support to kill a Baneblade equivalent in 1 phase.


1 psychic power and 1 HQ unit buff that they need to get in range isn’t exactly huge support, and you sound like you aren’t impressed by the ability to OHKO a baneblade. Remember you also don’t have to one shot it, crippling it is good enough


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/12 09:48:41


Post by: Astmeister


C4790M wrote:
 Astmeister wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Maybe skip the relic then, iconwards are hot garbage in my experience. Besides, 36 odd wounds on average vs 54 isn't going to matter unless you're fighting a warlord titan.

I think 4-8 hammerants is a nice handy tactical option to include in your list alongside a couple other units that could use the same Primus+stratagem depending on what you're up against. If you see a Land Raider, Knight, unit of dakkastelans, etc, send in the mutant gorillas to take care of them. horde of infantry, maybe the Primus brings in some Purestrains instead.


My calculations say the following for 8 Abberants with Hammers against T8 3+ Save.

Normal:
13.4 wounds

With might from beyond:
20 wounds

With might from beyond and Primus +1 to hit:
26.7 wounds

So unless I am mistaken they need massive support to kill a Baneblade equivalent in 1 phase.


1 psychic power and 1 HQ unit buff that they need to get in range isn’t exactly huge support, and you sound like you aren’t impressed by the ability to OHKO a baneblade. Remember you also don’t have to one shot it, crippling it is good enough


You need 8 Abberants for 297 points, the primus and the magus in range. Most likely at least the Abberants and the Primus are dead after they hit the Baneblade, since they are super exposed.
Isn't it more clever to just ignore the LoW, since they don't have enough Dakka to matter against mass infantery GSC anyway?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/12 20:34:47


Post by: Niiai


How are the troop choises for cultists these days? What are they used for? Do either of the ootion offer anything for a tyranid army?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/13 13:57:44


Post by: Kandela


 Niiai wrote:
How are the troop choises for cultists these days? What are they used for? Do either of the ootion offer anything for a tyranid army?


They are good in my opinion.
Neophytes:
Leader can take autogun or shotgun (really important to me), others can take 2 special weapons and 2 Heavy Mining Weapon or one heavy (which you never take - Heavy Mining Weapons are just better), they can die for your HQ choices as they have Unquestioning Loyalty. Want some anti-tank? Mining Lasers. They also have the same range as your autoguns so a win-win situation. Want to make horde player cry? Heavy Seismic Cannon (which got points decreased by whooping 7!) + Grenade Launchers (as they synergize well). The only bad choice is Heavy Stubber imo.

Acolytes:
CC heavy hitters guys. Nevermind normal Acolytes (though they are not that bad) - you want some nice special weapons. Heavy Rock Saws after point decrease is in my opinion best (basically two-handed chainfist) and you can take 2 in a 5-man squad for about 80 points. That's a steal for heavy lifting they bring. Just treat them like a missile that dies with whatever you point them at as they will be shot next turn. Demolition Charges are also an excellent choice. You take 4 in 10-man squad and blow something on turn 1. Then they are expended so they won't be targeted by your enemy allowing you to take them and bully some infantry with their rending claws. Heavy Rock Cutters are great if you know you will be against monstrous creatures like Tyranids or Daemons, but they are worse than Heavy Rock Saws now that we got points decreased. Still decent, just not good anymore in my opinion.

As for what they offer to Tyranids I don't really know. Probably some nice ranged anti-tank ability with Mining Lasers or CC Heavy hitter in form of Acolytes with Rock Saws. That's how I would use them.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/13 18:45:47


Post by: ajax_xaja


Are neophytes and Heavy Weapons really that bad? A HWT sitting on an objective firing lascannon shots seems like a big enough threat that the opponent can't ignore. Delivering mining lasers seems hard unless you've got them in goliaths (or I guess ambushing).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/13 19:35:24


Post by: Kandela


ajax_xaja wrote:
Are neophytes and Heavy Weapons really that bad? A HWT sitting on an objective firing lascannon shots seems like a big enough threat that the opponent can't ignore. Delivering mining lasers seems hard unless you've got them in goliaths (or I guess ambushing).

They ain't bad. Just AM does them much better (their squads cost less) than GSC and we have more point efficient options in terms of Heavy Mining Weapons. I found that Heavy Mining Weapons are great if you take them in Chimeras and deliver them in their threat ranges. That and since we aren't a top tier army we need to take any advantage over AM we can get - that is getting double firepower in form of two Heavy Mining Weapons instead of one better Heavy Weapon.
But hey, that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary. I'm still at quite early stage with my GSC tactics but love them more and more with every new list I make. Not so long ago I wasn't convinced by Heavy Mining Weapons myself.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 13:38:09


Post by: Gremmer


I must disagree with the praise of the mining weapons. As your main asset in cult is your mad mobility your units is close to always in the move, even more so with 24 inch range mining weapons trying to find targets. With 2 mining lasers in a squad moving or coming in from ambush they deal .74 wounds together to a Leman Russ, slightly above the laser platform (0.65 in similar circumstances). This comes at a higher cost, 38 vs 30 including platform. They are significantly better thoug vs 2 wound targets such as primaris Marines, but for me this is offset by the range differences.

They main reason I rarely use either though is the terrible synergy with the rest of the army, they stack terribly with a mobile army and cult ambush. They work considerably better for a static guard army hitwise. Also, I find teams useful for guards to bring down stray wounds on enemy monster/veichles just above the deterioration bracket, after the ruses and basilisk have done their main punch. As our main punch comes in the cc phase, we need to assign the shots without knowing where 1-2 extra wounds can make a difference, lowering the utility considerably.

In another note, I wish that gw would allow us some more customisation, I’m dying to rip the bone sword of my Primus’es and the heavy stunner from my grinders


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 15:04:10


Post by: Kandela


Gremmer wrote:
I must disagree with the praise of the mining weapons. As your main asset in cult is your mad mobility your units is close to always in the move, even more so with 24 inch range mining weapons trying to find targets. With 2 mining lasers in a squad moving or coming in from ambush they deal .74 wounds together to a Leman Russ, slightly above the laser platform (0.65 in similar circumstances). This comes at a higher cost, 38 vs 30 including platform. They are significantly better thoug vs 2 wound targets such as primaris Marines, but for me this is offset by the range differences.

They main reason I rarely use either though is the terrible synergy with the rest of the army, they stack terribly with a mobile army and cult ambush. They work considerably better for a static guard army hitwise. Also, I find teams useful for guards to bring down stray wounds on enemy monster/veichles just above the deterioration bracket, after the ruses and basilisk have done their main punch. As our main punch comes in the cc phase, we need to assign the shots without knowing where 1-2 extra wounds can make a difference, lowering the utility considerably.

In another note, I wish that gw would allow us some more customisation, I’m dying to rip the bone sword of my Primus’es and the heavy stunner from my grinders


Fair points, though I play more static than you it seems. I tend to play it more like the Guard with Chimeras and AM supporting units. In those circumstances Mining Weapons shine.

BTW
How does my list looks?
Spoiler:

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids: 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Astra Militarum) ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander: Shotgun

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad: 3x Mortar

+ Flyer +

Vendetta Gunships
. 2 Twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon
. Vendetta gunship: Twin lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ Elites +

Veterans: 3x Flamer, 7x Shotgun

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

It's more a static Guard army with GSC twist to get some nice support in form of Mining Weapons and Magi.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 17:16:04


Post by: Gremmer


You need to answer one question: why is your list better than a pure AM list? It looks like you don’t plan to ambush much, and all those cult chimaeras could be rerolling ones or ignoring -1 ap, and the cultist could take orders. the magi don’t have a lot of spells that benefit you. Why not play a Armageddon guard with those models? You have 300 p left to 2k, I would go Primus and a bunch of genestealers


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 17:30:54


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Niiai wrote:
Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.


The Psychic power gives +1S, the weapon then doubles that.

See the Designers Commentary FAQ:

Q: If a rule modifues a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength
is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.


Using this as guidance, an Aberrant under the effects of Might From Beyond using a Power Hammer fights at S12.

Base S5
+1 for the power = 6, their "current Strength characteristic" as per the FAQ
Then apply x2 for the Power Hammer = 12


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 17:58:55


Post by: ajax_xaja


 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.


The Psychic power gives +1S, the weapon then doubles that.

See the Designers Commentary FAQ:

Q: If a rule modifues a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength
is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.


Using this as guidance, an Aberrant under the effects of Might From Beyond using a Power Hammer fights at S12.

Base S5
+1 for the power = 6, their "current Strength characteristic" as per the FAQ
Then apply x2 for the Power Hammer = 12


You've literally proved yourself wrong in the exact FAQ that you quoted. Apply all multiply/divide modifiers, and THEN add/subtract modifiers. They're hitting at STR 11.

Edit: Ugh, yeah I goofed. Poor reading comprehension + horrible GW wording ftl.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 18:29:46


Post by: C4790M


ajax_xaja wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Remember that you multiply before adding S, in 8th edition.


The Psychic power gives +1S, the weapon then doubles that.

See the Designers Commentary FAQ:

Q: If a rule modifues a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength
is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.


Using this as guidance, an Aberrant under the effects of Might From Beyond using a Power Hammer fights at S12.

Base S5
+1 for the power = 6, their "current Strength characteristic" as per the FAQ
Then apply x2 for the Power Hammer = 12


You've literally proved yourself wrong in the exact FAQ that you quoted. Apply all multiply/divide modifiers, and THEN add/subtract modifiers. They're hitting at STR 11.


Check it again, it says calculate unit buffs (might from beyond and the relic), then calculate the weapon buffs (the power hammer x2)


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 18:38:10


Post by: Kandela


Gremmer wrote:
You need to answer one question: why is your list better than a pure AM list? It looks like you don’t plan to ambush much, and all those cult chimaeras could be rerolling ones or ignoring -1 ap, and the cultist could take orders. the magi don’t have a lot of spells that benefit you. Why not play a Armageddon guard with those models? You have 300 p left to 2k, I would go Primus and a bunch of genestealers


Hmm maybe your right and I should just play Guard... But I like the GSC fluff...
Maybe I'll get 2 squads of Acolytes or 11-man Genestealer unit instead of one of the double Mining Laser squad.

Sadly I don't have 300 points as here in Poland most tournaments are 1700 points.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 19:16:24


Post by: Odrankt


Hey all,.

Having but of an issue building a "CC Threat". Not sure if I want 1 unit if Genestealers and 2 units of Abberants or 1 unit of Abberants and 2 units of Genestealers.

1 Gene + 2 Abrants
Spoiler:
Aberrant
7x Aberrant, 7x Power Hammer

Aberrant
7x Aberrant, 7x Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Plan is the have the 2 units of 7 Abberants Cult Ambush w/ Primus for +1 to hit for fighting, Magus to have 7 anti-pysker rolls and Acolyte Iconward with the the relic for +1 Strength.
You
Then a unit of 18 Genestealers w/ a Primarch with the Might From Beyond power to give +1 Strength and Attack to the Genestealers as well as +1 to hit.


1 Abberants + 2 Genestealers
Spoiler:
Aberrant
8x Abberants, 8x Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Plan with the is to have the Acolyte Iconward w/ relic and a Primus for +1 to hit and a Magus w/ Mind Control with the 2 units of Genestealers.

Another Magus w/ Might from Beyond and Primus for +1 to hit for the 8 Abberants


What do you guys think would be the better CC option? Cheers for the help lads.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 20:55:15


Post by: Kandela


 Odrankt wrote:
Hey all,.

Having but of an issue building a "CC Threat". Not sure if I want 1 unit if Genestealers and 2 units of Abberants or 1 unit of Abberants and 2 units of Genestealers.

1 Gene + 2 Abrants
Spoiler:
Aberrant
7x Aberrant, 7x Power Hammer

Aberrant
7x Aberrant, 7x Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Plan is the have the 2 units of 7 Abberants Cult Ambush w/ Primus for +1 to hit for fighting, Magus to have 7 anti-pysker rolls and Acolyte Iconward with the the relic for +1 Strength.
You
Then a unit of 18 Genestealers w/ a Primarch with the Might From Beyond power to give +1 Strength and Attack to the Genestealers as well as +1 to hit.


1 Abberants + 2 Genestealers
Spoiler:
Aberrant
8x Abberants, 8x Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Plan with the is to have the Acolyte Iconward w/ relic and a Primus for +1 to hit and a Magus w/ Mind Control with the 2 units of Genestealers.

Another Magus w/ Might from Beyond and Primus for +1 to hit for the 8 Abberants


What do you guys think would be the better CC option? Cheers for the help lads.


Like the second option more. Though why Talon instead of Rending Claws?
Mind Control is subpar compared to Mass Hypnosis in your list.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 22:16:39


Post by: Odrankt


Kandela
Spoiler:
Like the second option more. Though why Talon instead of Rending Claws?
Mind Control is subpar compared to Mass Hypnosis in your list.
They have access to the rending claws,I just made the info smaller on Battlescribe. Hmm, Hypnosis on the Abberants might be a good combo. Will need another Magus though to cast that ability.

I also have 1 Company Command and 2 Russe's with the Heavy 20 S5 0 D1 to produce 60-120 shots depending on what they move. I am starting to think that if I go list 2 then I will have LOTS of S5 weaponary in both shooting and attacking.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/14 23:53:54


Post by: Gremmer


 Kandela wrote:
Gremmer wrote:
You need to answer one question: why is your list better than a pure AM list? It looks like you don’t plan to ambush much, and all those cult chimaeras could be rerolling ones or ignoring -1 ap, and the cultist could take orders. the magi don’t have a lot of spells that benefit you. Why not play a Armageddon guard with those models? You have 300 p left to 2k, I would go Primus and a bunch of genestealers


Hmm maybe your right and I should just play Guard... But I like the GSC fluff...
Maybe I'll get 2 squads of Acolytes or 11-man Genestealer unit instead of one of the double Mining Laser squad.

Sadly I don't have 300 points as here in Poland most tournaments are 1700 points.


12 stealers in a chimaera is quite good. With the Goliath gang from Necromumda you can make some cool abberants. I just think you need some hard hitting CC stuff


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Odrankt wrote:
Hey all,.

Having but of an issue building a "CC Threat". Not sure if I want 1 unit if Genestealers and 2 units of Abberants or 1 unit of Abberants and 2 units of Genestealers.

1 Gene + 2 Abrants
Spoiler:
Aberrant
7x Aberrant, 7x Power Hammer

Aberrant
7x Aberrant, 7x Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Plan is the have the 2 units of 7 Abberants Cult Ambush w/ Primus for +1 to hit for fighting, Magus to have 7 anti-pysker rolls and Acolyte Iconward with the the relic for +1 Strength.
You
Then a unit of 18 Genestealers w/ a Primarch with the Might From Beyond power to give +1 Strength and Attack to the Genestealers as well as +1 to hit.


1 Abberants + 2 Genestealers
Spoiler:
Aberrant
8x Abberants, 8x Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Purestrain Genestealers
18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

Plan with the is to have the Acolyte Iconward w/ relic and a Primus for +1 to hit and a Magus w/ Mind Control with the 2 units of Genestealers.

Another Magus w/ Might from Beyond and Primus for +1 to hit for the 8 Abberants


What do you guys think would be the better CC option? Cheers for the help lads.


I think that abberants mandate a Primus to ambush with the new stratagem, so if you go with double abberants you need double Primus as well


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/15 04:35:11


Post by: Kandela


Gremmer wrote:

12 stealers in a chimaera is quite good. With the Goliath gang from Necromumda you can make some cool abberants. I just think you need some hard hitting CC stuff

Thanks for the tip! Got some Goliaths coming to me already and MkIII Power Hammers to make the conversion.

Think I'll do something like this:
Spoiler:

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Abberants: 4x Abberant, 4x Power Hammer

++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Astra Militarum) ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander: Shotgun

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad: 3x Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad: 3x Mortar

+ Flyer +

Vendetta Gunships
. 2 Twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon
. Vendetta gunship: Twin lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ Elites +

Veterans: 3x Flamer, 7x Shotgun

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

This gives me stuff from both world - a heavy hitting campers and a heavy hitting CC. Alternatively I can still take my list with 11 Genestealers:
Spoiler:

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Genestealer_Cults) ++

+ HQ +

Magus

Magus

Magus

+ Dedicated Transport +

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Cult Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

Neophyte Hybrids: 2x Mining Laser, 10x Neophyte Hybrid

+ Elites +

Purestrain Genestealers: 11x Purestrain Genestealer

++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Astra Militarum) ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander: Shotgun

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Basilisks: Basilisk, Heavy Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad: 3x Mortar

+ Flyer +

Vendetta Gunships
. 2 Twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon
. Vendetta gunship: Twin lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter

+ Elites +

Veterans: 3x Flamer, 7x Shotgun

++ Total: [1700 Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Which would be better? Or do you think I should try and combine the two?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/18 02:51:28


Post by: tag8833


I just picked up some more IG. 5 Scount Sentinels, 1 hellhound, and a Lemun russ.

I was considering an outrider detachment to my Tyranids. Via a GSC patrol detachment.

The Hellhound is glued, but the Sentinels are magnetized and the lemun russ is unbuilt. I'm hoping they can provide some anti-tank, and maybe a few msu objective grabbers.

Am I nuts for thinking Las Cannon Scout sentinels might be the right choice?

For the russ I'm thinking about going plasmacutioner tank commander giving itself reroll 1's every turn (gunners kill on sight). Would I be better off BC / Muilti-Melta?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/18 15:11:26


Post by: Caspian89


tag8833 wrote:
I just picked up some more IG. 5 Scount Sentinels, 1 hellhound, and a Lemun russ.

I was considering an outrider detachment to my Tyranids. Via a GSC patrol detachment.

The Hellhound is glued, but the Sentinels are magnetized and the lemun russ is unbuilt. I'm hoping they can provide some anti-tank, and maybe a few msu objective grabbers.

Am I nuts for thinking Las Cannon Scout sentinels might be the right choice?

For the russ I'm thinking about going plasmacutioner tank commander giving itself reroll 1's every turn (gunners kill on sight). Would I be better off BC / Muilti-Melta?


I don't think you want to split your force so much. If you're going to run a Hellhound I'd also run at least 2, better 3, of those Scout Sentinels as Heavy Flamer models. They can advance together or split the flanks. That Hellhound will just get blown out of the water without some more threats coming up with it. That will also help support a Plamsacutioner tank that needs to get a little closer to be effective. I'd run the remaining 2 sentinels as Armoured Sentinels if you're going to put Lascannons on them. They will mostly be static if you want to hit with them and the +1 toughness and +2 Save really make a difference.

Make your Tank Commander your warlord with the master strategist trait and the Kurov's Aquilla relic and you'll nearly double your CPs!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/18 16:32:30


Post by: Odrankt


Hey guys, need help with a few things. Still new to mixing AM and GSC lol. Anyway, if I bring an AM detachment with the GSC am i okay to pick a regiment like Cadian, Catachan etc or do they strictly have to be Regiment Imperial? Also, if we can take regiments what is the best one to take if using 2 Tank Commanders with Battle Cannons? Cheers guys.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/18 19:23:19


Post by: C4790M


 Odrankt wrote:
Hey guys, need help with a few things. Still new to mixing AM and GSC lol. Anyway, if I bring an AM detachment with the GSC am i okay to pick a regiment like Cadian, Catachan etc or do they strictly have to be Regiment Imperial? Also, if we can take regiments what is the best one to take if using 2 Tank Commanders with Battle Cannons? Cheers guys.


You have to take the Brood Brothers regiment instead of Cadia etc. The rules for this are currently unknown and will be released with the codex, whenever that may be, so effectively we don’t get regiments for the time being.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 08:50:55


Post by: ritualnet


HI, I bought the battleforce, and have a few bits and pieces spare (a leman russ, a rock grinder I picked up cheap, Overkill and about 20 imperial guard), I want to join my friend's 500pt escalation league, however not sure where to start.

Does anyone have any views on where to start with GSC? I'm pretty new to playing 8th (although been around for a while).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 09:06:57


Post by: C4790M


Thats a hefty army you’ve bought there! For 500 points I’d recommend a batallion using the Magus and Primus, 2 squads of Neophytes, and Acolyte squad, and a Chimera (I think theres one in the battle force? If not, use the goliath truck). This should give you decent damage and mobility for a 500 pt game


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 09:34:14


Post by: ritualnet


C4790M wrote:
Thats a hefty army you’ve bought there! For 500 points I’d recommend a batallion using the Magus and Primus, 2 squads of Neophytes, and Acolyte squad, and a Chimera (I think theres one in the battle force? If not, use the goliath truck). This should give you decent damage and mobility for a 500 pt game


Battleforce has a goliath in

So far I think there's Primaris, Orks and possibly Imperial Guard in this escalation league. I have "must buy it all" syndrome so have a half painted start collecting craftworlds, and the nurgle stuff from Dark Imperium (plus nurgle deamons... and dark eldar start collecting... and space marines... ) but something about the idea of the cults rising up and taking over the planet gets me? Then they do all that, and get consumed as biomass.

How would you build the Neophytes/Acolytes? I think a post earlier on in here said the best way was what came in overkill, with no real special weapons barring mining laser, but not sure if that is still true.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 13:36:26


Post by: Caspian89


In terms of building here's what I've done and I'm very satisfied with it.

I have 2 Death Watch: Overkill sets + 1 box of Acolytes
I bought the following bits separately: Orc Nobz Big Choppas (x2), Goliath Siesmic Cannon (x3)

Images here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/oSRsDw6AyreyHkfo1

I then magnetized the non-Rock Saw Heavy Weapon Acolytes. I cut of the ends of the weapons, putting the magnet inside the body of the weapon, it's quite intuitive where to make your cut. I can swap out the ends of the heavy weapons to make more rock saws (via the Big Choppas) or the original Cutters and Drill. This will get you 3 Heavy Rock Saws out of each box of Acolytes without the loss of the other weapons. I have since ordered 1 more box of Acolytes so I can have 6 total heavy weapons in a 15 model squad.

I carved up a bunch of the DWO Acolytes to make Demolition Charge Acolytes as well as the Icon bearer.

I did the same magnet thing with the Neophyte DWO Mining Laser models, cutting off the barrel of the mining laser, placing the magnet in the gun's body. I can have a mining laser or I can have a Siesmic Cannon - I used the Goliath bit because they were a lot cheaper and multi-purpose compared to the Neophye cannon.

It's worth the little bit of extra time and effort because you'd not so tied to your models when points costs change, new rules come out or you just want to try something new.

Bonus: Genestealers.



Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 14:06:46


Post by: Strat_N8


ritualnet wrote:
How would you build the Neophytes/Acolytes?

Since you have Overkill I'd probably use the Acolyte box from the Battleforce to build special weapons (2x Demolition Charges, 1x Rock Cutter, 1x Rock Drill, 1x Rock Saw). The biggest problem you'll encounter with the battleforce Neophytes is that you get one box of each type, so it is impossible to double up on the heavy mining weaponry. Given that, I'd probably aim to build the one squad with a weapon team and build special weapons (each box should have 1x Flamer and 1x Grenade Launcher, for 2 of each), then pick up another "normal" Neophyte box for heavy mining weapons.

ritualnet wrote:
I think a post earlier on in here said the best way was what came in overkill, with no real special weapons barring mining laser, but not sure if that is still true.


The Overkill configuration for Neophytes (2x Grenade Launcher/2x Mining Laser) is the most flexible option since it has a mix of anti-tank capability and anti-infantry firepower, though if you have sufficient anti-tank elsewhere Seismic Cannons at their new cost are decent for dedicated anti-infantry minded squads. In general Grenade Launchers are the best general purpose special weapon while Flamers have some utility with shotgun squads due to shared typing and similar range bands. Webbers unfortunately don't do much in 40k currently, but they do have some use in Shadow War:Armageddon.


Are there any particular restrictions for the escalation league?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 15:39:41


Post by: ritualnet


 Strat_N8 wrote:
ritualnet wrote:
How would you build the Neophytes/Acolytes?

Since you have Overkill I'd probably use the Acolyte box from the Battleforce to build special weapons (2x Demolition Charges, 1x Rock Cutter, 1x Rock Drill, 1x Rock Saw). The biggest problem you'll encounter with the battleforce Neophytes is that you get one box of each type, so it is impossible to double up on the heavy mining weaponry. Given that, I'd probably aim to build the one squad with a weapon team and build special weapons (each box should have 1x Flamer and 1x Grenade Launcher, for 2 of each), then pick up another "normal" Neophyte box for heavy mining weapons.


What about shotguns vs autoguns? I believe autoguns and lasguns are pretty much the same thing (barring the look), but is there a good reason to use shotguns unless cult ambush is used?

ritualnet wrote:
I think a post earlier on in here said the best way was what came in overkill, with no real special weapons barring mining laser, but not sure if that is still true.


 Strat_N8 wrote:
The Overkill configuration for Neophytes (2x Grenade Launcher/2x Mining Laser) is the most flexible option since it has a mix of anti-tank capability and anti-infantry firepower, though if you have sufficient anti-tank elsewhere Seismic Cannons at their new cost are decent for dedicated anti-infantry minded squads. In general Grenade Launchers are the best general purpose special weapon while Flamers have some utility with shotgun squads due to shared typing and similar range bands. Webbers unfortunately don't do much in 40k currently, but they do have some use in Shadow War:Armageddon.


Are there any particular restrictions for the escalation league?


Not sure about restrictions.

Regarding weapons, the only anti-tank I would have would be a leman russ (hull built, no weapons attached yet), as I built the Rock Crusher with a clearance incinerator. It's a shame about Webbers, I always thought the idea of them were good (back in Rogue Trader days), but guessing they got hit hard.

I do wonder if the battleforce was a good purchase now, but yeah. If I need to, I can try and resell it for what I paid for it (£80), and then use that money to get 2x boxes of Neophytes, a chimera/Goliath, and use what I have in the Overkill boxed set. I could proxy the Rock Crusher as a Goliath too until I get a transport.

if I did not touch the Battleforce I have:

20x Imperial Guard (flamers/grenade launchers)
1 Leman Russ (not built weapons)
1 Rock Crusher (clearance incinerator)
contents of the Overkill game (Primus, Magus, Patriarch, 2x Familiars, 2 purestrain Genestealers, 4 aberrants, 16 Neophytes, 12 Acolytes).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 19:08:08


Post by: Strat_N8


ritualnet wrote:

What about shotguns vs autoguns? I believe autoguns and lasguns are pretty much the same thing (barring the look), but is there a good reason to use shotguns unless cult ambush is used?.


Shotguns do get a strength boost over the other two weapons when firing at 6'', so they are slightly better against T3, T4, and T6 models when that close. Getting them there basically requires ambush or a transport though. I don't have very many shotgun equipped Neophytes so my table time with them has been limited to smaller games, but I think they would make a good bodyguard for a Patriarch seeing as they are cheap (don't want heavy weapons, don't really need special weapons) and can still contribute offensively if they need to advance to block an opponent.

ritualnet wrote:

It's a shame about Webbers, I always thought the idea of them were good (back in Rogue Trader days), but guessing they got hit hard.


They were fairly good in the 7th edition book, just the changes to the AP system caused their old ability (target's strength = AP value) to not translate to the new edition. As is they are currently inferior to Grenade Launchers as a rate of fire special weapon despite sharing the same cost, though we will see what the codex itself brings.

ritualnet wrote:

I do wonder if the battleforce was a good purchase now, but yeah. If I need to, I can try and resell it for what I paid for it (£80), and then use that money to get 2x boxes of Neophytes, a chimera/Goliath, and use what I have in the Overkill boxed set.


I suppose it depends on how much of the IG aspect of the army one wants vs the more industrial/civilian mutant side. For what it is worth, the battleforce gives you special weapons for your Overkill Acolytes (which they really want) along with another Rockgrinder/Goliath chassis and extra HQ models. Patriarchs are a touch on the expensive side for spamming but the Magi and Primus are both worth taking multiples of. The neophytes are also not bad, just the sprues only have 1 of each heavy mining weapon so doubling up on the same weapon isn't possible without another box.


ritualnet wrote:
I could proxy the Rock Crusher as a Goliath too until I get a transport.


You might not have to, depending on what you are running. The Rockgrinder can carry 6 models, so either your Acolytes or Aberrants can borrow it for a ride (helps that it is a melee minded vehicle - dropping off its cargo and then charging itself works nicely).


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 20:22:49


Post by: mugginns


Does anyone have any good examples of how to use Focus of Adoration (the new Chapter Approved Warlord Trait)? I'm struggling to figure out where we'd use it.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 20:52:59


Post by: Rajah


Sorry, has this been addressed yet: Can you use the back to the shadows stratagem in turn 4 and then re-deploy in turn 5? The basic rules say that any unit not on the table by the end of turn 3 is considered destroyed. Does this mean I cannot take a unit back into ambush beginning of Turn 4?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/21 22:29:33


Post by: Strat_N8


mugginns wrote:Does anyone have any good examples of how to use Focus of Adoration (the new Chapter Approved Warlord Trait)? I'm struggling to figure out where we'd use it.


It is a bit tricky to take full advantage of, since it activates on the opponent's turn and requires a unit end the charge phase within 3'' of an affected GSC infantry unit. The first application that comes to my mind is as a tool vs first turn charges (Tyranids or Chaos being the main offenders), since it allows friendly units to pile in and join the fight and per the assault rules the charger cannot allocate attacks to the models performing the intervention unless they were declared as targets during the charge phase. Most of my games since Chapter Approved dropped have been against shooting lists (Tau, Ultramarines, Renegades) so I haven't had a good opportunity to really play with it yet, sadly.

Rajah wrote:Sorry, has this been addressed yet: Can you use the back to the shadows stratagem in turn 4 and then re-deploy in turn 5? The basic rules say that any unit not on the table by the end of turn 3 is considered destroyed. Does this mean I cannot take a unit back into ambush beginning of Turn 4?


Might be something for YMDC, but my first inclination reading over the rules is that Return to Shadows should still work after turn 3. The introduction to the Tactical Reinforcements rule specifically refers to units that have been "set up" elsewhere during deployment while Return to Shadows doesn't "set up" a unit, it removes one from the table and returns it to the battlefield the following turn. Mawlocs and Swooping Hawks have similar redeployment rules so I'll skim the FAQs and see if they had any mentions for use as precedent.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/22 01:39:58


Post by: C4790M


Ritualnet, keep the battleforce. The extra weapons for the aco/neophytes are really useful, and the duplicate magus/primus are almost essential. For neophyte loadouts, the DWOK are decent generalists, but I’d go shotguns for the battleforce neophytes to get some variety. Acolyte heavy weapons are all pretty fun/useful, but rock saws/democharges are the best


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/22 10:00:03


Post by: ritualnet


C4790M wrote:
Ritualnet, keep the battleforce. The extra weapons for the aco/neophytes are really useful, and the duplicate magus/primus are almost essential. For neophyte loadouts, the DWOK are decent generalists, but I’d go shotguns for the battleforce neophytes to get some variety. Acolyte heavy weapons are all pretty fun/useful, but rock saws/democharges are the best


shotgun/flamer in a Goliath could be nice, especially against Orks.

My friend who's doing the league is thinking I should stick with one of the other armies I started (DG/Craftworld) but, come on. Gribblies in the pipes and ducts, a fanatical doomsday cult trying to call forth the destruction of the whole planet, and a group of genestealers going "oh. Erm. Yeah let's hide on the next ship out of here before we get eaten!".

I decided to try my hand at damaging my leman russ. My view is that their IG equipment such as the tanks are actually vehicles being scrapped, but they fudged the paperwork, stole the vehicles and repaired them. It went well until I decided to get the lighter out, now I'm not so sure melting a sponson was a good idea


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/22 13:54:45


Post by: wuestenfux


With the Goliath gang from Necromumda you can make some cool abberants. I just think you need some hard hitting CC stuff

Indeed, Goliath gangers as Abberants is a nice idea. These gangers have unique weaponry anyway. You could mix with the GSC upgrade frame.
I think an AM detachment is a must-have in a competitive GSC army. For me, three LRBTs is the way to go.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/22 16:16:09


Post by: the_scotsman


I think chapter approved may have had a bigger impact than I initially thought. I played a game against a very competitive Guard list and the new stratagem came up absolutely clutch and the points adjustments were very appreciated.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/747135.page

I'm going to need some more aberrants, I think!


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/23 13:16:11


Post by: Kandela


I have a stupid question I noticed that I don't know the answer:

Can your Brood Brothers HQ be your Warlord? It would seem so, but I would like clear-cut response as I have doubts that my brain can interpret rules.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/23 16:21:56


Post by: Strat_N8


ritualnet wrote:

My friend who's doing the league is thinking I should stick with one of the other armies I started (DG/Craftworld) but, come on. Gribblies in the pipes and ducts, a fanatical doomsday cult trying to call forth the destruction of the whole planet, and a group of genestealers going "oh. Erm. Yeah let's hide on the next ship out of here before we get eaten!".


The question lies in how competitively minded the league is intended to be. GSC might not be top tier competitive, but their alpha strike potential, threat overload, and general trickery can be very mean if the opponent doesn't have the right tools to deal with it. Death Guard and Craftworld Eldar also are both more shooting-oriented with a handful of close combat specialists, whereas GSC is innately more melee-oriented with a handful of shooting support (though having full access to the AM armory means they can be pretty shooty too if desired). You already mentioned Orks are present, so another assault army being represented probably won’t hurt.

Also on a more fluff related note, not all of the cults are doomsday fanatics. The Pauper Princes from the 7th edition codex for instance seem to be mostly comprised of ordinary humans looking towards their Patriarch as a source of (perhaps somewhat misguided) hope on an otherwise miserable planet, while those of the Rusted Claw apparently started out as freedom fighters against an especially cruel and corrupt Imperial/Ad Mech regime before ascending to a planetary scale genestealer cult.

ritualnet wrote:

I decided to try my hand at damaging my leman russ. My view is that their IG equipment such as the tanks are actually vehicles being scrapped, but they fudged the paperwork, stole the vehicles and repaired them. It went well until I decided to get the lighter out, now I'm not so sure melting a sponson was a good idea


I like that idea! As a source of military vehicles for industrial cults it works perfectly. For battle damage I'd probably stick with Clippers (for chunks that have blown off) and a small drill (for blast holes), though you could probably just go with some plasticard "patches" bolted on here and there to achieve a similar salvaged look.

the_scotsman wrote:I think chapter approved may have had a bigger impact than I initially thought. I played a game against a very competitive Guard list and the new stratagem came up absolutely clutch and the points adjustments were very appreciated.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/747135.page

I'm going to need some more aberrants, I think!


Congratulations on the win! Liked the mission and justification for the fight as well, thematic yet effective. Very nice to see all of the elements of the army go to work for you as well, especially those heroic Aberrants!

Kandela wrote:I have a stupid question I noticed that I don't know the answer:

Can your Brood Brothers HQ be your Warlord? It would seem so, but I would like clear-cut response as I have doubts that my brain can interpret rules.


Technically any model may be nominated as the Warlord, just they only get a trait if they also happen to be a character (see pg.186 in the rulebook). If you really wanted to, you could have a liberated Baneblade be the warlord, though that would require forgoing a trait.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/26 06:10:12


Post by: Arachnofiend


Genestealers are the uncontested kings of infantry killing, right? I'm wondering about using acolytes for that role instead. If I were to do that how should I kit them out?


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/26 14:00:19


Post by: the_scotsman


 Arachnofiend wrote:
Genestealers are the uncontested kings of infantry killing, right? I'm wondering about using acolytes for that role instead. If I were to do that how should I kit them out?


IMO, acolytes are optimally run as more "target agnostic" versions of purestrains with anti-tank weaponry on their special weapons. If you were gonna run them to fight infantry, use the advantage that they have over purestrains: Upgrades. Maybe run a big squad along with a primus (to get you that sweet 5/6 result almost guaranteed with Meticulous Uprising) and give them a few hand flamers to carve up light infantry. The heavy weapon that often gets overlooked for its cost is the rock drill, which I actually like because of how purely "doesn't give a toss about what it's targeting" it is. Obviously vs tanks the saw is the clear victor here, because it costs nearly half as much for almost the same average damage, but charge a squad of MEQs with the drills and them putting out 3-4 mortal wounds each on average really starts to shine because mortal wounds stack if you kill the model. A marine just gets insta-gibbed by the saw, meaning that despite its massive strength and damage it only kills about 1 marine average, while the drill kills a marine on the initial hit, then several more with the mortals it dishes out. It also makes daemons and characters with beefy invuln saves pretty sad for the same reason.

Anti-infantry acolytes are never going to be as efficient as anti-infantry purestrains, keep in mind, I'm just telling you the best way to use them for that role because you seem to want to.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/26 17:33:42


Post by: Arachnofiend


Hmm, after taking your advice into consideration and thinking about it some more I think I'm just gonna go with the genestealers for now. The unit that I really want to use is Aberrants and I'm starting off at 1000 points for this campaign I'm playing my first GSC army in so I don't think I can afford a target agnostic unit yet. Maybe once my army develops into higher point values I can grab some acolytes.

For now, this is what my 1000 point list looks like. The general idea is to ambush in the most target relevant unit turn one (genestealers if facing infantry screens and aberrants if trying to crack transports) and then to bring in the other unit turn two to finish off the opponent's army. The Magus and Neophytes stay in the back/mid-field and just try not to die while I'm bringing in my real threats.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [57 PL, 996pts] ++

+ HQ +

Magus [4 PL, 73pts]: Warlord

Primus [4 PL, 76pts]: Bonesword

Primus [4 PL, 76pts]: Bonesword

+ Elites +

Aberrants [14 PL, 231pts]
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer

Purestrain Genestealers [16 PL, 300pts]: 20x Purestrain Genestealer

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [5 PL, 80pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Hybrid (Special Weapon): Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Hybrid (Special Weapon): Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autopistol, Chainsword

Neophyte Hybrids [5 PL, 80pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Hybrid (Special Weapon): Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Hybrid (Special Weapon): Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autopistol, Chainsword

Neophyte Hybrids [5 PL, 80pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid
. Neophyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Hybrid (Special Weapon): Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Hybrid (Special Weapon): Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autopistol, Chainsword

++ Total: [57 PL, 996pts] ++

It feels like a very "all in" army that will either win or lose on that second turn which I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with, though big ambushes are also a large part of why I was drawn to GSC so it's a bit of a give and take there.


Genestealer Cult 8th Edition Tactics - The day of Ascension draws near. @ 2017/12/26 18:05:39


Post by: Strat_N8


the_scotsman wrote:A marine just gets insta-gibbed by the saw, meaning that despite its massive strength and damage it only kills about 1 marine average, while the drill kills a marine on the initial hit, then several more with the mortals it dishes out.


Unfortunately the Drill's ability shuts off after the target is slain. The wording is slightly ambiguous as to whether you get the first roll if the standard attack kills the target, but it is fairly clear that once the target dies you can't make any addition rolls. I goofed that up a week ago while playing with some new weapon configurations and earned quite a bit of scorn afterwards for it... That said, they are still really nice weapons by virtue of their ability to bypass most defenses and they don't really need to be used en-mass to inflict a lot of damage. I'm planning on incorporating 1 in my Demolition squads so they still have some bite once their charges are thrown.


Arachnofiend wrote:
It feels like a very "all in" army that will either win or lose on that second turn which I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with, though big ambushes are also a large part of why I was drawn to GSC so it's a bit of a give and take there.


With the new stratagems it should work out well enough (Return to Shadows a Neophyte squad turn 1 and 2 and by turn 3 everything will be in the opponent's face). You might want to swap a few of the Seismic Cannons for Mining Lasers to augment your anti-armor capabilities, as your anti-armor is a touch on the thin side otherwise. I'd probably do 2x Squads with Mining Lasers, 1x Siesmic Cannon for chaff clearing and swap back to all Siesmic Cannons as you add more anti-armor tools.