Small update soon. Got some more plastic and the digital proofs back for the main game. Short list of things we had to change, but I suspect that's pretty normal. It's now back into processing for print.
Creator Kingdom Death about 1 hour ago
Yep. We've got (i think) most people finally sorted out. So yeah, I suspect the pledge manager will reopen.
The nightmare ram is the living spawn of a parasitic plant. It subsists on the salt of creatures which it metabolizes to power the glowing bulbs that grow atop its tough horns and the large lantern organ on it carries outside its body. They are sensitive, lonesome creatures that carefully cultivate beautiful, hidden gardens containing the plants that produce them. They will often beat trespassers into a pulp and use them as salt-rich fertilizer.
Like any fruit that has been picked, their life span is short.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wish I could get the Knightmare ram, but I've just not got the budget at the moment....
(although I don't think the sculptor quite managed to pull off the staring eyed madness of the Ram, or the tragic look of the female face on the top of it's head.... although I'm sure Adam decided on the final look I'd have preferred that was closer to the art in this case)
I'm pretty late at the party, but I'm searching for a euro based person who could buy stuff on the pledge manager for me (a LOT of stuff..), I'm located in Germany, and I would, of course, cover all fees and shipping when the stuff is ready to ship + something extra..
I would imagine he means there will be no formal announcement (yet?),
as every time he formally lets folk know the PM is open it ends up with 1000s of emails from folk to deal with
(What did I order, will I get bonuses if I order, will I effect my place in the order queue, I've changed my mind can I swap x for y, etc)
all of which means either he/his tiny team get tied up responding to emails instead of doing the nessesary work to get the KS finished OR they ignore the emails, upset people, and get even more emails asking why havn't you responded to my email
Right, so how do I add the King? Send an email? Try to access and reopen the old PM or the other old PM? If there were a simple, clear option, I wouldn't have to bother them.
I didn't have to do that. At the very least, after adding and paying for my additional items the Order Summary lists everything correctly.
The email confirmation I received, however, was different from the previous version in that it only lists additions, not the entirety of the pledge like before.
I was thinking (hoping?) that we're due an update, but...
Aug 25 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster
Sorry guys. There is no milestone hard plastic progress to update you with yet. I am expecting a package this week, which will include samples of a few more tools. I was promised that the rest of August and all of September, KD should be getting major priority. We got the digital proofs on the core game, had a few minor issues here and there that we took care of, so that is moving along well. The pledge manager has a "soft" opening, so that we could take care of all the outstanding issues and do improvements without getting overwhelmed. I'll make more of a point to keep on top of comments this week, leading up to when I get the package and can actually assemble and make an update.
Alpharius wrote: I was thinking (hoping?) that we're due an update, but...
Aug 25 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster
Sorry guys. There is no milestone hard plastic progress to update you with yet. I am expecting a package this week, which will include samples of a few more tools. I was promised that the rest of August and all of September, KD should be getting major priority. We got the digital proofs on the core game, had a few minor issues here and there that we took care of, so that is moving along well. The pledge manager has a "soft" opening, so that we could take care of all the outstanding issues and do improvements without getting overwhelmed. I'll make more of a point to keep on top of comments this week, leading up to when I get the package and can actually assemble and make an update.
Still, it is kind of an update, right?
Better than radio silence I suppose. Then again, tough to post an update when there is naught but tools to show.
Package arrived! The building of more tiny men has commenced! That means the work on the update has officially begun!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Creator Kingdom Death about 1 hour ago
So here is what I got and have been preparing. Lantern Kit tool, Mask Tool, Screaming Antelope + Hand tool. We got the next round of files for the Phoenix, White Lion and Leather armor kit. So far we've spent 2 days checking every part and we are not quite finished yet. Once we approve it, the factory will have to make any tweaks / changes I require and then the tools can go into layout and finally get cut.
So here is what I got and have been preparing. Lantern Kit tool, Mask Tool, Screaming Antelope + Hand tool. We got the next round of files for the Phoenix, White Lion and Leather armor kit. So far we've spent 2 days checking every part and we are not quite finished yet. Once we approve it, the factory will have to make any tweaks / changes I require and then the tools can go into layout and finally get cut.
Aug 27 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@ Kyle Currie, Got the scribe, its great! I am waiting on a version that has labels on the parts. Since right now its a really challenging build. So many arms and no guide, make it quite the puzzle. Face bases are fantastic. I had forgotten I haven't shown them off yet!
Aug 27 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@Aredman. Once the leather and fur are done, I'll add them to the pledge manager. The unarmored I could add. Perhaps not this round but next? All of the additional heads live on the unarmored sprue, so we have to do some internal decision making on how to split it up.
Aug 27 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@Num, while the factory has made progress. They are not finished with all of the tools. The next update which will be soon, will show where we are now.
So what do you guys think - would it be overly optimistic to still hold on to a 2014 fulfillment date? Four months left in the year - maybe 1-2 months left to produce everything (maybe we will know more with the next update), 1 month shipping of boxes from China to the U.S., 2 weeks packing (at least) and then shipping to us backers - which means at least 2 months for a package to Germany, if my order from the KD Store is any indication...
I think he is talking about the tax/custom fees we are likely to expect once everything is completed and shipped.
I've stopped looking at the KS comments page, nothing but white knights and backers who are more vocal about the waiting. We can't talk about KD:M much more as there is no new information/speculation to talk about.
I'm really at the point where This better be a damn good game, or I'll feel I will have wasted my money. This wait is beyond silly, and really disenfranchises me from every kicking something of his again.
Sep 4 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
The factory delays have been difficult. However, I am very confident we will get thru it and the increased game content and overall quality more then makes up for the poorly estimated time frame I was provided with when manufacturing began.
Sep 4 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
Communication, takes a lot of time and I apologize for not being around as much in the past 6 weeks, but It was absolutely critical that I remained on the ball, dealing with issues as they arose.
Sep 4 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@Vanderhagast, I understand. And I really wish an Update only took 5 minutes. I have been working on the update for many days now and we will have it soon! Please consider that an update has to be written, edited, many miniatures have to be assembled, photographed and then the parts of the project that we show off need to get decided on and then formatted so they are appropriate for kickstarter. (slicing images, saving for web etc). This is of course, no way an excuse and I agree I should have been more communicative. It just wasn't possibly between everything else I had to, absolutely had to, stay on top of.
Sep 4 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@Chris Linton, I do apologize. However I refuse to take "your bad at communication" fully on the chin! I will wedge a defense between that comment! On average I answer about 10 kickstarter related emails or messages every day. After an update goes live, this amount usually triples for around a week. That means post campaign I have answered well over 6,000 messages! That doesn't even include the comments here which I do try to keep up with. While I enjoy fielding questions and adding a personal touch to everything, this is not a small amount of time. If someone were to run a kickstarter, with perfect communication and constant updates, they would essentially need communication to be their full time job. Not only are their legitimate questions and concerns, there is also the content creation that goes into each update. That person would need to have, communication skills, knowledge of what is going on in the project (otherwise their messages would be nothing but mere validation) and the ability to source assets and prepare a large content post for thousands of viewers. Not to say this is journalism, because its not. However the time that goes into what seems like simple communication is indeed real. I am not really an outwardly communicative person by nature. I am creator, I like to labor in seclusion until I am ready to share. This project has been a big challenge, since I need to communicate on a much more regular basis! Since I am also running the show, directing the content, personally checking the miniatures that also means I need to wait until I have a level-head before I start communicating. Otherwise I risk imparting the wrong information. I think overall, I have grown and will continue to improve. Despite hurdles, we will get there. That is the kickstarter promise.
Sep 5 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@magicpink, whether i like it or not. the updates have become a very major source of news and traffic for us. I agree that not all of them need to be massive, but they do require care and the right amount of attention. Its also that I have to portion my time in order to make them and sometimes that can be a little bit of a challenge.
Sep 5 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
@QuickSilver, lol you are exactly right! Currently our project manager in china is out having lunch. This gives me a little bit of time to focus my evening shift elsewhere. During the day shift, the team comes to work at the studio and today I spent most of my time working on finalizing the Dung Beetle Knight expansion with one of our in house play testers. After everyone left at 8pm I switched over to my night shift, answered emails, lined up some times slots with sculptors and began to review the files for the cut Screaming Fur armor kit. Part of the challenge is most certainly trying to budget your time. When you have to switch gears and fulfill a myriad of roles it can be tricky. But I do fully believe each one of them requires the right amount of attention. And that, ultimately is why I am apologetic. I don't like that when things heat up, It takes me away from the comments and chatting with everyone. Since it is, a part of the process I do enjoy. The part I don't enjoy, is hounding the factories.
Sep 5 2014 on Kingdom Death : Monster.
Overall, I think its ok. The campaign has a good rep which I believe is because I put myself out there and keep things as open and honest as I can. Hiding from the criticism won't make the factory move faster, so I prefer to put myself center row as often as possible. Everyone here is free to (as always) deliberate as they wish. There is nothing wrong with opinions, however the facts are always good to keep in mind. Most importantly, that this is a kickstarter and not a regular point of sales. Without everyone, none of this would have been possible. And while I personally find it very frustrating that I cannot send everyone their rewards this exact moment, I have to look at it not from my own perspective. But one that encompasses us all. That is why, with the extra time we have been investing so much into improving the overall experience. I am perfectionist, to an extent. But this is more about making the best of the current situation. The factory will finish and to a very high quality mark. It is just much much slower then originally estimated.
The factory bit is unfortunate. Seems they hit snags constantly.
But perhaps that is why we see so few super high quality plastic kits from brand new companies. If a start up without as much capital behind it as KD had these delays, it could outright destroy the company.
From twitter-
@kingdomdeath: Kickstarter Update Status : Assembly is complete. Finish photographing tomorrow. Baring a typhoon hitting china, update will be this week.
Kickstarter Update Status : Miniature assembly is complete. Need to finish photographing tomorrow. Baring a typhoon hitting china, update will be this week. (finally!)
Sinful Hero wrote:From twitter-
@kingdomdeath: Kickstarter Update Status : Assembly is complete. Finish photographing tomorrow. Baring a typhoon hitting china, update will be this week.
Alpharius wrote:This is good news - but I have to wonder what the weather in China has to do with the update...
...unless part of the update is news of a container ship packed and headed this way?
Sinful Hero wrote:He could also be in China maybe?
Alpharius wrote:That's a far less exciting reason - plus I don't think he is...
BlackTalos wrote:might be checking up on Production in person?
Thought CMON sent 1 or 2 guys over for theirs?
In any case, hope to get the whole package soon.... been waiting enough and most other KS of the same period are coming over now-ish =)
Kickstarter Update Status : Miniature assembly is complete. Need to finish photographing tomorrow. Baring a typhoon hitting china, update will be this week. (finally!)
Reinforces the rumor that he's in China.
We know!
Also, how exactly does it give rise to a rumor that he's actually in China?
Maybe a Typhoon would simply cripple the project and he'd be too busy flying over to rebuild the factory single-handedly/drowning his sorrows in a swimming pool of alcohol to finish the update
Or he needs an updated status list for each kit to complete the update (I think this one is more plausible!)
Warehousing stuff in China would be a lot cheaper (if he even had to pay for it as WGF might well have to do so), than paying for a warehouse in the US (especially in New York where Adam is based)
Don't forget WGF has a warehouse in the US as well. If they're down to a handful of kits that could be air-freighted then getting the bulk on the water and moved closer to the client would allow them to wrap this project up and get it done with.
I think that's wishful thinking in the extreme and we care about the weather in China to get an up-to-date "still to do" list, but the above is a possibility.
Pictures of Lantern Armor Kit, Stone Face Base Inserts, Antelope Monster, The Hand Monster, Masks, The Scribe (and his dong), and Dung Beetle Knight rules/cards/art
Posting pics for people to see along with the text of the update. (spoilered because they're massive)
Kingdom Death wrote:#88 This project is not finished yet.
The amount of effort that has gone into each and every miniature is akin to squeezing a diamond from a lump of coal. Metaphorically speaking, I’m covered in soot, my finger nails are cracked and I’m coughing up black chunks.
I’ve been busy, more busy then I’ve ever been in my life, trying with every ounce of myself to keep the plastic production on track. It has been a huge challenge and has required more of my attention than I anticipated. When I tried to step back, I had to balance it against more lost time or worse yet, a loss of quality and thus, I’ve just had to keep my nose to the grindstone.
I could not step away from the tasks at hand and thus, could not get this update out any sooner. Between preparing it and getting my brain ready to respond to the follow up messages, I decided to finish the time sensitive stuff, and then return to the public surface.
And well... here I am!
Core Game Printing We have approved many digital proofs and are moving into the next stage, which will be approving physical proofs. There are… a lot of cards. Its sort of insane.
Continued Development And while the season quietly changes are hearts don’t waver. I don’t think any of us expected to be spending quite so much time together… not playing the game or building miniatures… Yet, the KD team’s commitment is absolute. Much to the chagrin of some of the staff, I have continued to stuff the expansions silly with content. Later this update I’ll be showcasing the Dung Beetle Knight expansion and how its evolved as we await the plastic production to be finished.
This translates directly to more value for the people that matter the most. You backers. You helped lift this vision into reality and the only way to thank that is to continue polishing and improving while our hard plastic manufacturing wraps up.
If I have to make you wait, I will make it better.
When you don’t have to wait, I will destroy your postman with the heaviest box they’ve ever had to deliver!
Lantern Armor Kit The quality of the Lantern Armor kit is astounding. I am really pleased with how it turned out. The kits are fun, there is defiantly a balance you need to strike depending on the gear and the subtle adjustments of the joins in order to get a strong pose. Getting absorbed in model building was a nice change of pace for a bit!
Oh, the lantern topped shoulder pads are fully optional. You can add them to most other kits and you also don't need to have them on these to complete them. Each arm and torso piece is fully independent.
Spoiler:
Plastic Progress + Gift! As of this moment, there are only 3 core game tools left to be cut. The Pheonix Armor kit, the Lion Armor Kit and the Screaming Fur armor kit. This DOES mean, that the Stone Face Base insert, Screaming Antelope and Hand are done! I squeezed yet another gift, ("who cares we want the project to be done already!" Yes I know... me too ;_ onto the tool with Antelope and the Hand. Two new miniatures that I simply will not reveal. They have been publicly posted anywhere. You'll just have to get your box and open it up to find out whom they are.
The Great Game Hunters translated very well. And the Twilight Cloak, its hands are armor kit compatible so you can add whatever weapons you like to em. And the Scribe! The Scribe is intense! It came out really well, although the build on it is a real process. Took our poor intern about half a day! He was working without instructions which made it a real puzzle for sure. We increased his size about 3% from the original and as promised both the scribe and the lectern lady have optional privacy fabric.
The plastic scribe is amazing. I am just glad we have instructions for it now.
Spoiler:
Dung Beetle Knight Upgrade! The DBK has received a lot of love from yours truly. Everyone here had to pry the project away from me as I was simply pouring too much into it. I guess that's what happens when you have a personal favorite. Dung Beetles are just soooo cool! They are like the little try hard of insects, watching videos of them struggle made me think of myself. Working so hard to just get my ball of poop from one side of the yard to the other. Ah.
Anyway, the fight with this monster is nuts. It will totally stuff you inside the ball, then blast it across the board leaving your friends with the difficult choice of either saving you, or attacking it while they are separated. Included is an Errant Badge that nets you one of the 3 random knight tactics cards ( a theme that is carried across the other expansion knights) and if you meet the right conditions you can bury gear for a few years, to later unbury it and access its more powerful calcified side! It's a pretty big time and resource investment tho! And naturally you can always fail.
Here is the teaser! Next week it's off to editing and then can be added to the DONE pile. Yeah we actually have that now.
Spoiler:
Manning Up There is actually some content I had prepared that I have cut for today. The reason for this, is that I have decided that every other wednesday I will post an update. I'll wake up that morning, check in with the crew, then dedicate the morning to you. You have show me nothing but astounding amounts of patience, respect and kindness. The slew of encouraging emails I get from you backers, even when I haven't posted an update for what... 9 weeks?! Is just too flattering to handle anymore. The real reason I delay updates, isn't because of the amount of work that goes into it. Its because I have to switch gears and go from art directing / game writing / factory yelling / day dreaming and suddenly... gulp... communicate to thousands of people! Its really tough!
But, that's enough whining about it. Every other Wednesday morning. I am yours. Even if there has been no signifigant factory progress I'll just fill you in on whats been going on at our internal studio. I might, might turns these smaller things into blog posts, unto which I will notify everyone about. I don't want to just flood the kickstarter with anything but serious milestones. We shall see.
Regardless of it being a blog post or an update. I will create it and I will notify you. That time will become SACRED BACKER TIME.
P.S. The game is amazing. We just went through a round of interviewing more play testers (yes more!) and they were blown away. And throughout the day I can hear the cries of triumph and defeat from the various play test areas. It is exciting!
I know our factory is doing a stellar job. And I am so thrilled to stand behind the plastic we've produced together. But let me go on the official record and say that WE (me and you) REALLY NEED THEM TO HURRY IT UP!
CUT THOSE TOOLS! INJECT THAT PLASTIC!
GO GO GO GO GO GO !!!!!!!!!!
P.P.S
Omg, I almost forgot about that thing everyone was asking for!!!! The production list! AUHG! All new entires are in blue. Yeah.. the core game crew by another full tool. Ugh. I don't know how we are going to afford producing these outside of the kickstarter. You backers are fine of course. It's just the future stuff. Hehe. Too much ambition.
Too much want!
Spoiler:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, for the sake of speed I didn't spell check or copy edit this or anything. Anna is going to yell at me soon as she finishes reading it.
The hard plastic Lion God is in tooling (somebody at the factory obviously thinks it must be done for us.... or more likely the bod(s) who splits the monsters is not the one(s) who splits the humans
Creator Kingdom Death about 3 hours ago
Yeah, its currently being cut up!
Which is cool but... UGH. It was supposed to be AT THE END OF THE QUE. They even jumped it past other armor kits. lol
Yeah, that is going to be one hefty box when it arrives. I suspect this will be constructed as and when the creatures are needed in a slow burn solo campaign!
Well this pretty much confirms next year looks like they need 5 months to finish the tools which brings it up to CNY so could be Q2 2015
.... speaking from history only. The factory's average has been 3 tools / month. Sometimes its zero, sometimes its up to 8. We have right now... about 15 tools left. Which, if you do the math is really not ok. While I have nothing but praise for the quality and their communication with me has been good. I am upset that their speed is causing such massive delays for everyone. I want, more then anything, to get this project out to everyone ASAP.
How many times can we reopen our pledges? At this point I just need the flower knight and I've got all the expansions, but I wouldn't mind grabbing some of the individual figures.
I'm also awfully tempted to go and add a survivor level to my order (since I pledged for the base game at the time of the campaign).
I have a funny feeling I would make back the cost of selling off the extra base game when all is said and done.
DaveC wrote: Well this pretty much confirms next year looks like they need 5 months to finish the tools which brings it up to CNY so could be Q2 2015
.... speaking from history only. The factory's average has been 3 tools / month. Sometimes its zero, sometimes its up to 8. We have right now... about 15 tools left. Which, if you do the math is really not ok. While I have nothing but praise for the quality and their communication with me has been good. I am upset that their speed is causing such massive delays for everyone. I want, more then anything, to get this project out to everyone ASAP.
I posted this in July:
RiTides wrote: Plenty of time to get practice before this ships . With no estimate given, I'm going to say Q3 2015 for this to be completely fulfilled. Mark me down now!
Depending on how CNY goes, then transit time on the boat, shipping to all the backers... I'm still sticking to this for "complete" fulfillment. Feature creep is still ongoing, after all (two figures added to the antelope sprue, all the extras he keeps adding to the expansions contents, etc). More content is good, but I backed a board game (Xia) where most backers were asking for an end to revisions after a while. Sounds like his staff feels similarly
When the KS was still running we got everything. Every single item that came with a card or whatever that could be used in the game was snatched up, because why not eh?
highlord tamburlaine wrote: How many times can we add stuff though? Are we locked in and finished after we add stuff right now?
You can add more than once... There probably is no 'limit' in place as that would require additional coding and stuff... Poots said it would remain open through October, at the least. Who knows. I think it's safe to assume that this is the last round (unless he gets info from the factory just prior to wrap-up and shipping to US, and he has the demand from backers to open for one final window). Who knows...
ATTENTION! LAST UPDATE BEING POSTED AS BACKER ONLY WAS AN ACCIDENT. IF YOU MISSED THE CONTENT, HERE IS WHAT IT SAID:
"Allright!
So this time around I don't have any "milestone" progress to share. It's a vacation week over in china, so we won't have new plastic to share just yet. So I decided to keep it a bit more toned down and have added the first Sacred Backer time post over on the KD Blog.
The PVC Lion god turned out well detail wise, tho I admit its insanely hard to assemble. The joins ended up being pretty severe since PVC tends to warp each piece differently. The hard plastic lion was scaled up from the original resin version and does assemble MUCH more easily and cleanly then either the resin or PVC version. The creature is on a 100mm base here, so he is rather large!
This update is going to be a combination of Sacred Backer time and a kickstarter update. Just so happened plastics arrived just at the right time.
Sharing Today
It was a busy day! The first round of color proofs arrived and we divided the tasks of checking everything amongst the team here. This round was to ensure the colors matched what the designs intended and they were not printed on their final stock or given the matte coating everything will have. The settlement locations were a big hit!
I am happy to report that the black on black effect looks great for the gear grids! However on the monster control panel the design is not quite as “bold” and I will have to adjust the contrast to make things readable.
Deck Organizers
Not sure I've actually shared these yet. Each deck comes with divider to make your life of managing all the cards easier. Since a monster generally has 4 decks, they get a single divider that lists everything they have.
The rulebook itself is around 70 gigs of data. I am confident to report that the game language is very consistent, the glossary terms are accurate and last but not least, the pages are all in the right order! There are… (counting)…60 full pages pieces of art (not including the comic which is 28 pages) and around 100 unique smaller pieces of art scattered throughout the book.
After checking the rough proofs and the current color proofs we made the final adjustments, tweaks and updates and here it is! The final print revisions, being shipped out tomorrow to the printer! If your curious here is a list of the changes for what we are internally calling version 1.2
Kingdom Death: Monster Core Game V1.2
Final Fixes & Tweaks
Bridge Sized Cards
- Katar Specialization, changed to "cancel reaction".
- Grand Weapon Specialization changed to "cancel reactions".
- Chatter Phoenix AI, changed zone to show correct monster size.
- Tumble, changed to more accurately describe rules. (Thanks DBK!)
- Principles Graves, updated to reflect final play testing. Now grants extra endeavors for deaths during the hunt and showdown. The endeavor on it was dropped.
Gear Cards
- First Aid Kit, overhauled. +3 Survival to all survivors at start of showdown, you ignore disembowled.
- Scavenger Kit, updated to be unique and give 1 basic or monster resource.
- Leather Shield, updated block 1 to works as intended.
- Beacon Shield, updated block 2 to works as intended. - Scrap Sword, moved art, was clipping into keywords.
Rulebook
- Game Over Page, updated text so it does not break the game.
- Glossary, updated rules for block.
- Glossary, destroy armor was updated
- Replaced instances of armor levels with armor points.
- Table of contents updated, story event entries now point you to the rules side and not the art side of the spread.
Monster Control Panel
- Contrast increased, is currently too hard to read.
Production Update
Screaming Fur Armor is complete! Here are some photos of the assembled kits. The screaming fur kit is where all the rare gear in the game lives. The armor kit compatible butchers cleavers, lantern halberd etc.
The Lion God is also finished. Here are some photos showing off its grand and bizarre majesty!
Here is a little teaser from the Lion Gods, expanded Expansion. Upon defeating the monster, your survivors will encounter a strange parasite that calls itself the "Necromancer"! Perhaps they should take it home with them...?
Factory News
The factory has finished the Dung Beetle Knight, the leather armor set and the phoenix armor set. I do not have them in hand yet, so I cannot check them and strike them from the list. The man-hunter and the white lion kit are currently getting finished up and I just approved the layout for spidicules. I think the layout for the dragon king is next. I fear how many sprues that is going to be.
Last Sacred Backer Update Question:"In regards to tabletop miniature gaming, which gameplay element do you feel is the most important and why?"
It was really interesting to read everyone's response to my question. If I were to answer based on all the very solid and very different responses I received, I would say the most important gameplay aspect is to have fun, in the way you like to have fun. While that answer sort of embodies, the spirit and the definition of the word "play", it is a mere observation seeing just how important very different aspects of the "game" and "play" experience can mean to people.
However, I will share my own unique perspective as both a gamer and creator. In specific to tabletop miniature gaming, I would say the most important gameplay element is movement. First and foremost, we are talking about a tabletop miniature game, so actors/pieces within this game all have a physical representation. Looking at some ancient games like GO or Mancala, it tells me that physical pieces, how you move them and where they are placed is a very fundamental part of gaming around a tabletop. We could increase the scope a little more and say that even card games as where they cards are, their placement if you will, are generally the foundation of the game. But, lets not go that far, I'll focus back in on specifically miniature tabletop games.
Movement is generally the only time you physically touch your miniature. So its when you are most connected with your gaming piece and most often will have a change of state.
Movement and placement is the heart and soul of any good tabletop miniature strategy game. If its not, then the game will feel very static and you'll begin to wonder why you have miniatures at all. Why would we play a game on a huge table... when nothing on it moves. Or worse yet, the rules that govern movement are difficult / unsatisfying to us personally.
My theory is that the better and more satisfying the movement rules are, the better a miniature tabletop game will be. I won't use the word intuitive, since thats more like one of those dreaded gaming buzz words these days. What is intuitive to one individual may or may not be to another. The best you can do, is build solid rules that layer well without requiring too much back and forth in a game book to learn. Tabletop miniatures are usually quite complex, much more so then candy land where you move along a single track. Part of the enjoyment is the flexibility and in the moment developments that can happen. But when it takes either too much deliberation or research to determine the outcome of something exciting... it goes from fun to frustrating and finally to boring.
Did we perfect movement in Kingdom Death: Monster?
Heh, surely not. However we did keep these fundamental ideals close as we developed, broke, repaired and polished the game system and its many automated monster fights. There is a lot of movement in the game, and its a rare turn that passes where you won't think about how best to take advantage of moving in some way or another.
After all, we are not playing whack a mole. Although if we were, we could use a much smaller game board!!!
Much like last time, I will leave everyone with another question!
Are you more of a hobbyist or more of a gamer? And why do you think that is?
KD Store! We released some new stuff on the store! Of the new releases only the Great Game Hunter Rogue is left. This is a resin collectors edition, so there are no game rules / content and if you have never worked with resin before, he is a pretty simple character to put together.
Lol, its now 12:30am!
I gotta get on the call with the factory now, I will however keep my eye on the comments until around 4am or so when I need to pass out. See you again in 2 weeks!!
P.S. This has not been spell checked, proof read, or even reread by me for the sake of speed.
Having trouble bringing the photos over, someone may have better luck.
I really think that I have put myself in the worst possible position for this! Missed out on the Kickstarter, but got in on the "Survivor level-only" pledge last year, which did not allow add-ons. It was either that, or a $600-$700 level that included all of the plastic expansions.
So now every time there's an update, I'm both re-engaged with the agony waiting for delivery of the base game, and saddened further by all of the other lovely expansions which are not coming my way and will financially ruin me if I end up buying them at retail! I think at this point, it's better to be fully in or fully out...
Although I defy you 'one of everything' pledgers to find an appropriate storage solution for this stuff. Certainly, the Lion God and Dragon King are very large, but what on earth are you going to do with Spidicules?
cincydooley wrote:OKay, thats the straw. Looks like I'll be adding the Lion God.
Dammit.
Just added mine, too. I'm telling you guys, by the end we'll have at least one of everything.
Bioptic wrote:I really think that I have put myself in the worst possible position for this! Missed out on the Kickstarter, but got in on the "Survivor level-only" pledge last year, which did not allow add-ons. It was either that, or a $600-$700 level that included all of the plastic expansions.
So now every time there's an update, I'm both re-engaged with the agony waiting for delivery of the base game, and saddened further by all of the other lovely expansions which are not coming my way and will financially ruin me if I end up buying them at retail! I think at this point, it's better to be fully in or fully out...
Sadly, at this point I've ended up adding all the expansions. Each update seems to bring one more expansion on to my pledge.
I was hoping to see some lion god equipment show up on those sprues. I find it odd that there's a monster we can have an encounter with that I can't skin and make a bunch of awesome gear out of.
cincydooley wrote:OKay, thats the straw. Looks like I'll be adding the Lion God.
Dammit.
Just added mine, too. I'm telling you guys, by the end we'll have at least one of everything.
Bioptic wrote:I really think that I have put myself in the worst possible position for this! Missed out on the Kickstarter, but got in on the "Survivor level-only" pledge last year, which did not allow add-ons. It was either that, or a $600-$700 level that included all of the plastic expansions.
So now every time there's an update, I'm both re-engaged with the agony waiting for delivery of the base game, and saddened further by all of the other lovely expansions which are not coming my way and will financially ruin me if I end up buying them at retail! I think at this point, it's better to be fully in or fully out...
Don't have access to the pledge manager?
No, sadly not! This was for 'late backers' who missed the Kickstarter, and it was made very clear that the pledge manager was not allowed. The options were 1) a slightly more expensive Survivor level, 2) survivor + all expansion content for $600-700, 3) all plastic content for over $1000 if I recall. Of course, this was before the price rises - I thought I'd be paying $10-15 more per expansion at retail, not e.g. $50 for something that was $15 on the Kickstarter. I also thought I'd have the game in my hands by now, of course!
But yes, the updates do a very good job of tantalising and opening wallets, and the quality is still almost universally high. I still wonder how a $250+ minimum buy-in for the base game at retail is going to go over, though! That would cause all of the boardgamers/RPGers I know to emit a continuous high-pitched whining sound...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Sadly, at this point I've ended up adding all the expansions. Each update seems to bring one more expansion on to my pledge.
I was hoping to see some lion god equipment show up on those sprues. I find it odd that there's a monster we can have an encounter with that I can't skin and make a bunch of awesome gear out of.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Sadly, at this point I've ended up adding all the expansions. Each update seems to bring one more expansion on to my pledge.
I was hoping to see some lion god equipment show up on those sprues. I find it odd that there's a monster we can have an encounter with that I can't skin and make a bunch of awesome gear out of.
Bioptic wrote: No, sadly not! This was for 'late backers' who missed the Kickstarter, and it was made very clear that the pledge manager was not allowed. The options were 1) a slightly more expensive Survivor level, 2) survivor + all expansion content for $600-700, 3) all plastic content for over $1000 if I recall. Of course, this was before the price rises - I thought I'd be paying $10-15 more per expansion at retail, not e.g. $50 for something that was $15 on the Kickstarter. I also thought I'd have the game in my hands by now, of course!
But yes, the updates do a very good job of tantalising and opening wallets, and the quality is still almost universally high. I still wonder how a $250+ minimum buy-in for the base game at retail is going to go over, though! That would cause all of the boardgamers/RPGers I know to emit a continuous high-pitched whining sound...
That's a shame. Good for your wallet, bad for your soul. My pledge has steadily been creeping toward the $1k mark. But, ugh, don't tell anybody.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The worst is still not upon us though. The worst is when the game starts to ship, and some people have it, but YOU don't.
I have somehow held steadfast and not added anything since the KS ended! And it has almost nothing to do with the fact that my fiancee and I bought almost everything the first time around! Nope! Not even a little bit!
In all seriousness, we had the survivor edition with almost all of the expansions and several pin-ups. The only expansions we left out were the Lonely Tree and the Lion God. The tree tempts me slightly, but I don't want to spend more money. I stand by my not getting the Lion God, though, the art may be beautiful (and creepy), but the model doesn't appeal to me.
Alpharius wrote: During the campaign, I made sure that I got everything that had 'gameplay' options in it, and a few of the pinups that I thought looked good.
I haven't added anything else in yet, and I *think* I'll be able to resist the temptation to do so...
You and I, Alpharius, we can do this. Stay strong!
It's a lot easier for me to add something when I view it as a singular purchase. $20? $25? Not a big deal, really.
But once I see the running total for my KD:M purchases, well, it becomes considerably more difficult to heap those same $20 onto the pile, so to speak.
Dentry wrote: It's a lot easier for me to add something when I view it as a singular purchase. $20? $25? Not a big deal, really.
But once I see the running total for my KD:M purchases, well, it becomes considerably more difficult to heap those same $20 onto the pile, so to speak.
This is the most apt description of my current situation possible.
Oct 16 2014
The arrows and quivers are just for "general use". They are not specific to any gear.
Oct 16 2014
@AGN1964, I couldn't update the spreadsheet. The Screaming Fur Kit and the Lion God both had some shrinkage issues. The kits photographed here are from the first round of test shots. Usually it takes a week or so to adjust the pins and tweak the gates to reduce shrinkage and get a precision join from the parts. Until I have those and can quickly dry fit them, I can't consider these ready for production. Hence, the lack of a production sheet update.
Oct 16 2014
Backers will be getting the hard plastic lion god. I am unsure what to do with the PVC lion god, or currently how to absorb the cost that went into its tooling.
Oct 17 2014
The contents have the core game have been thru 4 editors. The game must PRINT!
SBT#3 - Lots of Tiny Men
All the core game armor kits, arrived for review this week!
It’s gonna take a bit of time to properly review everything, ensure all the bits are on each sprue and that the multi-part pieces have numbers. This is the first time I got to see the plastic Phoenix, Lion and Leather set in person and there are just soooo many bits, its daunting!
Here are some of the survivors I assembled yesterday and this morning.
One of our play testers Zanbato (weapon above) wielders actually got decapitated by the level 2 Kings Man yesterday. He was sad, but it was awesome!
Phoenix armor is cool! I haven’t put together a male yet.
The White Lion Armor is one of the more offensive armors in the game. It’s usefulness trails off in the 2nd half of the campaign and ends up feeling very glass cannony.
Joe assembled this leather armored Whistling Mace wielder above!
Printing!
I think I might be just as excited by the token sheet, as I am all the armor kits. I am super pleased with the material, its very dense and the edges are extremely hard to fray.
Here is a glam shot:
Thickness:
Play testing
So here is, a quick, unedited grab from one of our play testers log. Some of it, might not make any sense… you have been warned!
**After Hunt**
Settlement name: Beta
Population: 8
Death Count: 23
Survival Limit: 4
Departing Survivors gain 3 Survival
Innovations: Language, Paint, Inner Lantern, Symposium, Lantern oven, Guidepost, Face painting, Ammonia, Shield mastery, Scrap Smelting
Principles: Life - Protect the children, Death - Graves, Conviction - Romantic
Locations: Lantern hoard! Bone smith, Skinnery, Organ grinder, Catarium, Stone circle, Weapon crafter, Leather worker, Plumery
Quarries: White lion, Screaming antelope, Phoenix
Nemeses: The butcher, The king’s man, The hand
5 Endeavors gained from butching the Butcher.
An acid storm ravages the settlement. Kristina must skip the next hunt. Sara skips while fiddling around with useless Butcher bits in a dark corner. A corner darker than the darkness that surrounds the settlement. Survivors pass some time with wildly fun face painting.
Available resources:
White fur, 2 Monster organ, 2 Love Juice, 4 Broken Lanterns
Small Feathers, Tail Feathers, Phoenix Finger, Muculent Droppings, Pustules, Phoenix Eye, Shimmering Halo, Rainbow Droppings
Some scrap was smelted into iron for working on the phoenix gear. Lance and Jose took the time to get crazy in the acid through innovative battle painting. Tracie then took the time to scavenge for scrap near the end of the storm.
No new items were made.
With a murder looming over the settlement, it is determined that Shane II leaves for this hunt without Tracie so that he can die in her stead. What a sick game these survivors are playing among themselves…
Shane II
Ins 4, Sur 1, 9 xp, Grand W. prof: 0
1 Str, 1 Acc
4 Und, 1 Cou (Tinker)
Fighting Arts: Rhythm Chaser, Combo Master, Mighty Strike
Impairments: Destroyed genitals
Jose
Ins 3, Sur 2, 2 xp, Sword prof: 0
1 Acc
4 Und, 1 Cou (Analyze)
Other notable survivors:
Marcy
Ins 4, Sur 4, 3 xp
3 Und, 2 Cou (Analyze)
Fighting Arts: Double Dash, Scavenger
Kristina
Ins 7, Sur 4, 3 xp, Katar prof: 1
1 Str 3 Und, 3 Cou, (Analyze, Stalwart)
Fighting Arts: Combo Master, Pickaxe Power
Sara
Ins 3, Sur 1, 1 xp
2 Und, 1 Cou
Disorders: Secretive
Tracie
Ins 2, Sur 2, 10 xp, Grand W. prof: 1
1 Str, 1 Acc, 1 Mov
3 Und, 1 Cou (Explore)
Fighting Arts: Clutch Fighter, Legendary Lungs
Hunt for a level 2 Antelope (with Manhunter additions)
William finds a dead antelope! No one wants to mess with a level 3 lion, it thankfully doesn’t happen. He then leads the party to a strange statue. Lance ends up touching it and switching existences with Ishi, the indecisive rageholic that loves him an axe. Ishi then leads his newfound friends to some wailing smoke. Jose straggles, but something in the smoke gives him a new perspective on life and death. In fact, he stops believing in either and embraces a sort of immortality. Shane finds a Vomit Pile that Ishi and Jose each scavenge for some courage. Ishi gains survival and Jose found some understanding and a pelt. Jose found a relic and got some insanity for it. William then led this fresh batch of men to a swarm of Man-stealers… What a friend. Jose had his genitals destroyed.
The darkness overwhelmed.
William took 4 damage to the head and 2 to the arms.
Ishi gained insanity and courage.
Jose lashed out and dealt 1 arm dmg to Will, 1 body dmg to Ishi, and 1 body dmg to Shane II.
Shane unnaturally cried out, dealing damage to everyone’s brains.
Jose tried to gather some minerals, but destroyed his axe with his furor. (rolled 1)
Ishi gained the Careful fighting art and 1 survival. Jose gained the Scavenger fighting art. William gained the Careful fighting art. Shane II did nothing with his report. While wrapping up the report, the survivors learned that the place they decided to pause at before approaching the antelope was actually covered in a carpet of ticks! Bill and Jose freaked out and lost their will to survive.
Screaming Antelope Shodown
An ore vein was discovered! This is auspicious. Iron was gained. Awesome. William goes a bit crazy, but then becomes a Rageholic. Wonderful. Then the Antelope eats a Lion Katar… Shenanigans.
Well, since Lance died, the settlement is looking at 2 endeavors. There’s still a full party, so that’s 5 more. Shane II tinkers for 1 more… And Shane is going to die after returning next year… 9 endeavors is a good number. I’m ok with this.
Question from last time: Are you more of a hobbyist or more of a gamer? And why do you think that is?
Answer: With Warhammer and Warhammer 40k, I can certainly say I am more of a hobbyist then a gamer. Growing up, playing was a treat! Getting everyone together at someone’s house was hard, people in brooklyn don’t really have a lot of space. We played in basements and when peoples parents were out of town! Looking back, I spent way more time building miniatures, painting them and chatting about playing, then actually playing. The smaller games, especially the euro style ones, however saw a lot of play. I’ve lost weekends to marathon catan or dominion runs, and I try every week to gather friends to game. Last time we played Trajan and next time I think we are going to try Quantum. I also played Kingdom Death for leisure on Saturday and we had the best 1st year I’d ever seen. It filled me with the urge to run my own solo-campaign and try out some whacky builds, but I just don’t have the time such an endeavor takes. Maybe once its all shipped out!
I think my question here is a little unfair. We are all gamers at heart, the hobby aspect of hobby games is part of the experience and getting black and white on it its nearly impossible. A better question would have been: “What come first, the hobbyist or the gamer?” For me, it was the gamer side, then the hobbyist in me embraced the assembly, painting and fussing about with all the small variables on out of the box game, can’t provide you with.
Sinful Hero wrote: Plastic Dragon King! The end is nigh! Death will soon bring the Monsterpocalypse upon our doorsteps! Ia! Ia! Poots Fhtagn!
Have an exalt!
Though I just realized, I have not planned where I am going to hide this monstrosity when it comes. I have pondered on where I may store this beast as to not draw the ire of the Feminine one. Too long have I labored under the illusion of permanent delays, and with the end nigh, the wool has been removed from my eyes.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I do wonder how big the game box will get. Bigger than Ogre? That's the biggest one for me so far.
A few updates ago:
24" x 12.5" x 4.5" & ~12# of total awesomeness...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gunslingerpro wrote: [Though I just realized, I have not planned where I am going to hide this monstrosity when it comes. I have pondered on where I may store this beast as to not draw the ire of the Feminine one. Too long have I labored under the illusion of permanent delays, and with the end nigh, the wool has been removed from my eyes.
This project is coming. And I now know true fear.
And this…. This is completely true. Everyone else is giddy for a different reason, but I'm feeling the same dread.
Will I be able to pass it off as "I've had it for years" …I don't think the fact that I paid for it years ago will change any inbound ire…
Oh well, so long as I get to roll the dice and watch some survivors and monsters die before she claims my skull for a cereal bowl, I'll die a happy man...
Heh, KD is actually the first time my wife's actually pushed me to get more invested in a game- think I ended up putting another $150 or so in after she got ahold of it.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Heh, KD is actually the first time my wife's actually pushed me to get more invested in a game- think I ended up putting another $150 or so in after she got ahold of it.
Count yourself lucky sir. I of course jest when I say she will kill me and or be upset, as she could careless what I'm spending my money on. But the look I will get when she sees the models/art direction/nudity and how big the box is will be the stuff nightmares are made of.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Heh, KD is actually the first time my wife's actually pushed me to get more invested in a game- think I ended up putting another $150 or so in after she got ahold of it.
Count yourself lucky sir. I of course jest when I say she will kill me and or be upset, as she could careless what I'm spending my money on. But the look I will get when she sees the models/art direction/nudity and how big the box is will be the stuff nightmares are made of.
That is something not many of us remembered to take into account... I would place money on my misses being over the moon about all these naked women...
gunslingerpro wrote: Count yourself lucky sir. I of course jest when I say she will kill me and or be upset, as she could careless what I'm spending my money on. But the look I will get when she sees the models/art direction/nudity and how big the box is will be the stuff nightmares are made of.
I certainly do- I believe body horror, co-op, and "booby ladies" were the selling points for her . Having similar tastes in media, food, games, and alcohol is pretty nice.
One thing I've wondered about--I made a comparison to Dwarf Fortress earlier, and it occurs to me that we could use a forum to play a "succession game", where someone plays a few rounds, reports the state of their settlement and the notable events that happened in it, and then hands it off to someone else. Anyone else like the idea?
There'd been talk on BGG about doing a similar forum experience I believe.
I'm down for it.
My wife has at least gotten accustomed to everything in the mail being paid for "a long time ago." Between kickstarters and preordering boks on Amazon nearly years in advance, she just assumes at this point anything in the mail was purchased months and months ago.
....suuuuuure it was.
I've cleaned out a lot of gaming space in my house, so I've got a special spot in mind for KD when we finally get it.
At this point, though I certainly appreciate all the effort and little bonus that are going into this project, the only thing that will really get be to Highlord it up and Barzam like a madman is a shipping date!
Yeah, not holding my breath on a firm release date, but I would be happy to hear that all the molds are tooled and full model production commencing in December. Then there'd be a decent chance of it getting on the water before CNY.
I really need to stop buying things, but it's harder to remember to have space when things take multi-year intervals to arrive. Ah well.
Two years ago, the Kingdom Death: Monster campaign was launched. Our humble project was met with such enthusiasm and support, it pushed our ambitions into the stratosphere!
Before I really get into it, let me just cover the major highlights in summary form.
Official Fulfillment is TBA. Estimated Summer 2015. International backers should expect packages shipped from the United States. For legal reasons, it cannot be marked as a gift. There is a possibility EU backers will have their rewards shipped from within the EU. Do not expect it and do not count on it. This all boils down to logistics, budget, and liability which cannot be finalized yet. Only 4 kits remain to be tooled by the plastic manufacturer! It’s Black Friday, many things in the store are 50% off and we have taking pre-orders for an encore run of the very popular Satan miniature(s).
Black Friday 2014 Last Chance Backers Welcome!
Just like last year, we are honoring black friday by opening the door and allowing late backers into the fold. I was very mixed coming to this decision, as I feel that you backers are sacred and should be taken care of. It wasn’t the emails from fans begging to be part of the project, nor the ones asking me questions about “piggybacking” a practice I am sorry but we cannot officially support. Rather it was the kind and very genuine emails from fans patiently awaiting the public release, knowing full well that the final price is much higher than what we kickstarted it for.
It is for those patient and understanding fans, that I have decided to make an exception for black friday. They are just excited, have grabbed whatever resin miniatures they could, and have stated they are happy to pay our final retail price! Please come on board now, while we are still mid-production so I can offer you some of the benefits our current backers have. Granted, the pledge rates for things have increased since we pitched, the shift to hard plastic was brutal on the budget.
We have 3 black friday packages and they are based on the current pledge manager rates. If you you were looking to show your support while we are still mid-production, now is the time.
Plastic Production Info
Here is an updated plastic production list:
There are currently 5 kits still being worked on.
Dragon Armor Kit, tooling complete samples in the mail. Silk Armor Kit, currently being tooled. Gorm Armor Kit, currently being tooled. Sunstalker Armor Kit, Currently being tooled. Green Knight Kit, Currently being tooled.
The contents of the core game and the survivor level rewards all need to be boxed and packaged. We are still working out the details, but it looks like this process will take a team of 10 people around 1.5 months.
Paper Production Info
We have the proofs for all the cards, the game boards, the tokens, everything except the game box itself which might need some final size adjustments.
Our current drop dead delivery date on all the expansions to the printer is end of Feb. The printer is pushing us for the end of Jan, but I am currently unsure. There is so much content, and I need to ensure that our internal team here, delivers the best possible version for mass production.
The printer did a fantastic job! I also sprung for the more expensive matte coating, instead of the aqueous coating you normally see on game cards. It really supports the art and it gives all the cards this wonderful physical feel.
Holding the rulebook feels magical. This is just a print proof / sample, but everything came out so incredibly nice. I don’t think I’ve ever held a game book that has this much art in it. Perhaps I went a little overboard? lol
Miniatures
Here are the hard plastic miniatures!
With this, all the core game miniatures have been finished, approved and are currently in production! YAY! I also screwed up on the Phoenix Kit and put x6 of PK21. It went into production, so I guess we can all enjoy 6 handless Sonic Tomahawks, instead of the planned 1!
The Dragon King is utterly huge and mesmerizing. The hard plastic version is nearly identical to the original resin version. The process of scanning and cleaning really seems to lend itself well to large monsters.
The Dragon King Human form turned out great! It is actually the personal favorite of our Project manager at the plastic factory. The Dragon People come with an extra pair of armor kit compatible heads, and their hands are also armor kit compatible.
Playing with the Spidicules is really cool. Unlike every other monster thus far, the monster has no “base”. Instead you use can either use a 2x2 square shadow token or place its downward facing hands in the center of 4 squares, to indicate where the spider’s main body is. The Spidicules showdown has been the studio favorite. I’ll get more into detail about it next time. Oh yeah, we also added 6 spidering miniatures to the expansion!
Lonely Tree Upgrade
Yeah so… this was originally going to be just a tree, with a few cards that modified a couple of fights. Buuutt… I figured what the hell, so we went in, made it so the Lonely Tree is actually a battle with its own Hit Location / AI deck and also includes a special Lonely Muse Miniature, along with some story events to support the small campaign arc!
Man Hunter
We scaled the Man Hunter miniautre up a tiny bit. And we really added a ton to the expansion! Next time I'll share a little about how the Man Hunter expansion can improve your hunt phase, making tracking down difficult targets a little bit easier. This was our play testers top request, so we were thrilled to make it happen in a way that made sense.
Dung Beetle Knight
My personal favorite! The DBK has been scaled up and the pair of survivors wearing the rolling armor turned out great! Hector Moran, actually cleaned up the scan data of the this hand sculpted knight monster. We very much on purpose made the effect of its carapace much more pronounced so that it would be nice and crisp for the hard plastic incarnation. The Shoulder pads and leg pads features on the rolling armored survivors are hollow underneath. This allows for a lot more freedom placing them on other armor kits.
Schedule and Fulfillment
Black friday, for me, is the only day that is the exception for all exceptions. From the very place I sit right now (on my mom's couch!), the kickstarter was launched and my vision for the most insane and ambitious tabletop game I could conjure up was set into motion. Never did I expect my humble idea to capture the interest of so many people and for it to bloom into what is now, a truly massive experience with a score of content-packed expansions!
So for once a year, I will share my earnest opinion rather than hard facts on where we are. Over the course of communicating with everyone in the last 2 years, this is something I've learned to be a big no-no... but screw it!
Based on the estimate from the plastic factory, production of the core game, the survivor level pledge box, and all the expansions will be finished in a month and a half. Then all of this will be shipped over to the factory that is handling our paper printing needs (boxes, cards, rulebooks etc). This means that everything will be all ready to go... just in time for Chinese new year. During the Chinese New Year, all of the factories are closed. Usually it lasts about a month as people travel to see their loved ones and then travel back to work and the factories wind up again.
Our internal schedule is simple. We will work like crazy the rest of November, December, January and February, to get all of the content in the expansions to the same polished level the core game currently is. Up until the very last day, I will cram in as much artwork, content, and love into everything. Starting March, printing of all the expansions will begin, with final proofs estimated to be on their way to us in may. If things look good, then it all gets packed into containers and loaded onto a boat. At that point, its 4-7 weeks away from the containers arriving at our door, wherein we will unpack and begin fulfillment. Leaving us looking at... June or July 2015.
I know... I know. This seems insane. How could all of this possibly take so long?! Dear backers, I really hope that sharing this entire process and the roller coaster that it has been sheds some light on that. The over funding lead to a tremendous amount more content then we pitched, swapping to hard plastic and ensuring that it came out right was... just a task that I couldn't even fathom how massive it would be. Finally, play testing, polishing, writing clean rules, and making sure the experience was as fun and rewarding as the vision intended, was yet another huge challenge.
All of it has been awesome. And more and more I find myself wishing I had the extra time so I could actually attempt my own run of the core campaign. The game has such a tremendous variability I am really curious to see how my settlement and survivors might evolve! It really forces you to think, as going into the game with a straight "yolo" attitude has resulted in a campaign wipe every time.
You Backers
You guys are the best. Finishing the project to the absolute best the team can offer is certainly something each one of us wants, craves, and needs. But underlying that almost visceral feeling is the desire to bring something to all of you that will give you the utmost joy and pride for being a part of it. Well that is, until you start playing it and it crushes you! lol
Seriously tho. None of this would have happened without you guys. Kingdom Death would have never made it this far. We never would have stretched towards (what I am being told) creating some of the best hard plastic kits the industry has ever seen. Nor would I have been so driven to make sure the vision for the world, the stories told between the gear, cards, resources and story events of the campaigns, were as polished and complete as they have turned out to be.
This truly is a once in a lifetime project. And I can honestly say, I have given this my all. And I am more then ready for our last 3 month sprint at the end of this very long marathon.
So thank you. Thank you all so very much!
We can see the lantern light at the end of this long tunnel, leading us to a bounty of hard plastic miniatures and the start of your journey into Kingdom Death.
I want to post the Spidicules image, but it's gigantic: I find it almost impossible to believe that spider monster can be real. The details are so fine, the limbs so think, lordy!
I look forward to the day I might actually get to play this.
I'm curious, what are you all going to do with your figures? Are any of you going to take the challenge of actually making them modular? Or will you guys just build them straight?
given the shear number of bits we'll all be getting, i'm thinking i'll build most straight, but keep maybe one of each gender set up to be modular perhaps
greenskin lynn wrote: given the shear number of bits we'll all be getting, i'm thinking i'll build most straight, but keep maybe one of each gender set up to be modular perhaps
Pretty much this. I had hopes of magnetizing, but I have no interest in losing myself to insanity Summer/Fall/Winter 2015.
greenskin lynn wrote: given the shear number of bits we'll all be getting, i'm thinking i'll build most straight, but keep maybe one of each gender set up to be modular perhaps
Pretty much this. I had hopes of magnetizing, but I have no interest in losing myself to insanity Summer/Fall/Winter 2015.
As someone already crazy, I will probably attempt to make them modular for transport.
I was tempted by the black friday sale, but I'm going to have an insane amount of minis anyway, so think I'll be fine.
Summer 2015, though? That's... frustrating. And that'd make the delay more than 1.5x the estimated delivery time.
As gorgeous as these minis are, I'm pretty tired of this, and don't really feel great about the treatment with round 2 of black friday pledges, and it's souring my attitude a bit.
...think I might just quit backing KS's if this one turns out to be a disappointment.
I'm happy enough even if summer (or later) 2015 is still a fair bit away
(although I so want to play with this all now)
and I'm OK with BF pledge sales more folk enjoying the goodies (at what is quite a bit more than the original KS backers paid) is cool
and if only to help pay for the tooling of the hard plastic lion god which basically sneaked in otherwise I suspect we'd have been 'stuck' with the PVC version tooled earlier
but I can quite understand those who are getting a bit fed up with the delays
Yeah, I can understand frustration too with the length of time involved past the projected date.
At the same time, Adam has certainly not been idle and the deal KS backers have gotten on their initial investment has gotten better. Certainly disappointing that we had been hoping to be getting things about now, but it's been a trade-off and not a "you get nothing" scenario like some delayed KS projects.
I want the shiny now of course, but it'll be here soon enough I suppose and certainly decades before I run out of models on hand to occupy the time.
BrookM wrote: He said don't count on it though, which to me sounds an awful lot like "not even going to try at this stage"
but the bigger and heavier the boxes gets the more sense it will make to do it cost wise,
especially if he decides he can trust china to pack the stuff into the boxes in which case he could consider getting them to make up pledges and labelling them too like CMON is now doing meaning the expensive picking wouldn't have to be done by an EU dropshipper
(all the same I sadly suspect your right and it's not going to happen)
Don't get me wrong, I want it to happen, but I seriously doubt it. At this stage I just think he, his team and the people over at the factory just want to get it all over with.
I do find it a little frustrating that almost every other KS I have backed has found a way to get EU deliveries sorted from within the EU but for some reason this one cannot.
Glad to know he's giving us some kind of de lux matte finish. Matte is my favorite kind of finish!
Also, Adam had originally said not to count on a pledge manager and ultimately that's something he was able to do. His dissuading people from putting much hope in EU shipping is hard to view as a kindness but I believe he just doesn't want to raise hopes; it'd disappoint folks more and cause a larger backer outcry if it were promised and not delivered.
I was tempted by the black friday sale, but I'm going to have an insane amount of minis anyway, so think I'll be fine.
Summer 2015, though? That's... frustrating. And that'd make the delay more than 1.5x the estimated delivery time.
As gorgeous as these minis are, I'm pretty tired of this, and don't really feel great about the treatment with round 2 of black friday pledges, and it's souring my attitude a bit.
...think I might just quit backing KS's if this one turns out to be a disappointment.
I feel the same way. If I knew I wouldn't see the product for over 2 years, I would never have backed it in the first place.
I mean, all the extra stuff has been nice... but these delays have really killed my desire for anymore KD stuff. I hope the game is good.
I was tempted by the black friday sale, but I'm going to have an insane amount of minis anyway, so think I'll be fine.
Summer 2015, though? That's... frustrating. And that'd make the delay more than 1.5x the estimated delivery time.
As gorgeous as these minis are, I'm pretty tired of this, and don't really feel great about the treatment with round 2 of black friday pledges, and it's souring my attitude a bit.
...think I might just quit backing KS's if this one turns out to be a disappointment.
I feel the same way. If I knew I wouldn't see the product for over 2 years, I would never have backed it in the first place.
I mean, all the extra stuff has been nice... but these delays have really killed my desire for anymore KD stuff. I hope the game is good.
I understand the point completely, as I've often asked if the Delivery Estimate was correct at launch -- Summer 2015, would it have succeeded? Would it have hit $2M and broken records?
Probably not! But, the scope of the game exploded several times over with the sculpts / sprues alone, not including rules, cards, etc. I think when you get the kind of attention this campaign has, you're also beholden to polish this into a proper gem--you know folks will hold it to an insanely high standard!
I think it could be frustrating to original backers with the secondBF deal, but it generates interest and spreads more good press around, and creates company viability down the road. If we all want to delve deeper into Kingdom Death (and new Monsters / rules & hard plastic for old ones!), then the more financially secure KD is, so is that bleak, lantern lit future…
Not being idealist, and I understand the commitment to initial backers--but everyone is basically in a queue at this point. KS / BF1 / BF2 … eventually Preorders / Final retail -- and we're all getting a project polished far beyond what we pledged for (unless you're just joining in this round).
**Also, EU backers that want it shipped from China -- It won't happen that way. Since the resin components all come from a vendor in France, the kraft boxes are stored in Adam's WH in NY, and he's mentioned his printer as being local (for the rulebooks), and it looks like the cards / token sheets are being produced in China, also. In essence, he can't ship packages that are incomplete from the manufacturer. This Monster is going to require all inventory landing in one warehouse, picking and selecting pretty intense orders--probably a huge number of these orders are unique. If WIthin-EU shipping is possible, it'll be sent from the US in bulk…. Not necessarily an opinion, There's facts there...
Regarding perfectionism, problem is, it feels like the attitude of perfectionism has caused things to be a lot slower, and it's the question of diminishing returns on time. If he's put another 6 months on the estimate (i.e. something more reasonable), even if it were late, it'd still feel a lot less than it is. Also, if it's this delayed and not awesome, it'll be received a lot more poorly than if it were only 6 months late and not awesome.
Just to chime in- if he originally estimated September 2015 I still would have backed with little to no hesitation. It would have made no difference to me at all.
I do own a few of the resin limited stuff and as far as I can tell, the plastic will be almost as good.. doesn't really matter when it'll be released :x
Sinful Hero wrote: Just to chime in- if he originally estimated September 2015 I still would have backed with little to no hesitation. It would have made no difference to me at all.
I've got to agree with this. Yes, delays suck and it can get frustrating. Yes, I would LOVE to have my KD stuff and play it now, but, you know what? That's life. gak happens, and not always when you think it will. If nothing else, consider this a lovely reminder that patience is a virtue, and when we finally have this game, we'll be able to appreciate it all the more. Two years have already gone by in the blink of an eye while waiting for this stuff, what's another six to eight months? I do feel for our non-US backing friends, though, as we'll likely have our stuff long before they do, just a guess, anyways.
Yeah, I too still would have backed at the level I did even if it had said 2015 on the delivery date. Probably more if I had known that it'd be in HIPS rather than PVC as was initially offered.
I don't begrudge people who are frustrated with another 6-9+ month wait (depending on location), but I'm more concerned about how I'll have space for this thing when it finally does arrive. WGF might be slow, but they do excellent work and as long as I've waited and as much as it's cost (in both outlay and opportunity cost) I want nothing less. If they were going to hit within 3-4 months of the delivery window I might have taken "good enough" and been okay with it. We're past that point for me now, but I still feel quite comfortable that everything will be as polished as it can be. The regular and thorough communication (versus the radio silence of many delayed projects) makes a big difference.
If I knew it would take 3 years, I wouldn't have backed.
If I knew it would be shipped from the US instead of the EU, I wouldn't have backed.
2 years later and I have no interest in this particular feel of models anymore, so it's straight to e-Bay, anyway.
All this KS has taught me is to never participate in another KS, ever. It's all the downsides for me, foreseen and unforeseen, in exchange for a measly discount, if that. Not worth the time and money versus buying available product from a store.
The good news is that you should be able to do quite well on eBay - I imagine that initially the Kickstarter pledge auctions will do VERY well on there...
Alpharius wrote: The good news is that you should be able to do quite well on eBay - I imagine that initially the Kickstarter pledge auctions will do VERY well on there...
Hopefully that's the case, so I can recoup my investment, including the imminent customs.
The bad news - I somehow doubt there is going to be high demand for a resin Phoenix :/
All this KS has taught me is to never participate in another KS, ever. It's all the downsides for me, foreseen and unforeseen, in exchange for a measly discount, if that. Not worth the time and money versus buying available product from a store.
Well, delays and future painful customs bill aside, at least we weren't lied to, misled or treated like idiots, unlike some how some companies feel like going about a KS.
Really? Could you elaborate? With a bigger image this time, to help get the point across.
Well, delays and future painful customs bill aside, at least we weren't lied to, misled or treated like idiots, unlike some how some companies feel like going about a KS.
Since we're off topic, anyway - I'd be pretty pissed had I backed Warzone, having paid close to what the models sell for in online stores and received vastly inferior sculpts. Or backed Kings of War and got Basileans. Or Relic Knights and got malformed, featureless PVC... objects. I could go on... Ah, the wonders of miniature kickstarters.
Dang, well at least he has honestly said it will be Q3 next year (I've never seen a campaign that says "June/July" hit the first month in the guess).
Those pics from the update are stunning, though. The only disappointment for me is the Lion armor, since it looked much better during the campaign... I guess it was not moldable.
It is somewhat similar to Dreamforge for me, and I think the whole thing has been a learning experience for creators and backers. Polystyrene plastic parts from injection molds is a long and expensive process, and funding TONS of molds at once might not be the best path forward in the future. It will make an incredible product, but getting it years late isn't worth the tradeoff for me. I was thrilled with my resin Dreamforge Leviathans, for instance - and I had those in early 2012! Paid more, but was actually able to use them...
All that said, I have several friends really interested in Kingdom Death, so those who want to recoup their investment after it delivers should have an easy time of it.
Yes, it's very easy to get discouraged by a delay especially when the rush of the campaign is so long ago. For instance Dreamforge, as RiTides mentioned, is horribly delayed as well. I recall being quite annoyed that we reached February of 2013 before Wave 1 hit, but once I actually had the kits on hand it was a completely different story and they're some of my favorite models now. Likewise the wait for Wave 3 has been awful, but at the same time everything I've seen of the final product shows that they are top-notch quality. The wait may make me grumble and grouse, but the rational part of me knows that once plastic is in hand all of that will fade away.
Some other campaigns have taken forever, and then deliver results that are...lackluster. Alternately, I've seen a few where they just flat-out break promises made to their backers or just ignore them entirely. None of that has happened here, and I do believe Adam will deliver the best experience possible.
However, delayed gratification is really not my thing, which is why I too have tried to curtail my KS habits.
Guys, I backed KD:M at the Herald level and I'm mostly OK with the KS. I love the look of Spidicules and the Dragon King, and think they will be awesome to play with. Really, the product looks to be truly amazing stuff. KD:M is definitely raising the bar with what we can expect in plastic.
That said, no, I'm not totally happy with the delay. IMO, this game, of all games, could have used a stronger manager to prioritize and push things out the door. And there should have been a tactical decision to do multiple waves of product, so that resins could have shipped Holiday 2013, the base box would have been out for summer of 2014, and the rest for holiday 2014-summer 2015. Had the product been ready, I'm sure a lot of people would have paid for multiple waves of shipping.
OTOH, it does look like KD:M will complete all of its stretch goals before Ogre DE does, so there is that dubious honor of not being the most completely overdue KS.
But that's all shoulda, coulda, woulda over the dam and under the bridge... It's a good thing I was able to keep busy with other stuff while I've been waiting.
I'm pretty much not backing anything that's KSed and using WGF as a partner. Not to say I'm very bitter but I haven't received anything from a WGF KS, including DFG because I backed for valkir troopers -_-. It's an even bet whether this or DFG will show up on my doorstep first
To expand why the delays aren't really bothering me, besides actually communicating what's going on, Adam keeps doing things like this...
"I'm sorry things are taking so long, but I DOUBLED the size of the core game..."
"More delays, but I'm throwing in some free bits and heads..."
"Guys and gals I'm really sorry, here's another model for this expansion..."
"More delays inbound, but I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions..."
It's like the longer it's delayed, the better it gets from what I pledged for in the first place.
How many heads and weapons do we really need? We're already getting a hundred or so models (or I am, anyway), so at this stage I do not need or want more. I just want the damn box.
Sinful Hero wrote: To expand why the delays aren't really bothering me, besides actually communicating what's going on, Adam keeps doing things like this...
"I'm sorry things are taking so long, but I DOUBLED the size of the core game..."
"More delays, but I'm throwing in some free bits and heads..."
"Guys and gals I'm really sorry, here's another model for this expansion..."
"More delays inbound, but I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions..."
It's like the longer it's delayed, the better it gets from what I pledged for in the first place.
The question, to me, when he says stuff like this is:
Is that actually true, or are the sentences actually reversed....
I DOUBLED the size of the core game, so "I'm sorry things are taking so long"
I'm throwing in some free bits and heads...so here are More delays.
"I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions...so More delays inbound "
If I was a gambling man, I'd say that's more likely the issue here. The original scope of this project was completely shat upon and discarded, and when you let so much creep and expansion happen, it's inevitable that there will be delays.
Lots of people don't like on KS when a campaign "fizzles" at the end because all of the planned KS goals have been met, but the ones that don't have people "chasing" last goals are the ones that tend to ship closer to on time because the project was better managed.
I'm not unhappy, but I think we should be realistic and not place all the blame on WGF.
BrookM wrote: Aye, adding more stuff is always neat, but won't that add even more production time to the final product?
Depends. He added a lot of paper content (AI cards, actual scenarios/encounters for things that didn't have them before) which didn't slow the project at all, because he was still waiting on the plastic kits. Likewise, the changes made after playtesting didn't change anything because they were waiting on plastic.
The only thing that may have lengthened the process was when he added new bits to open space on sprues that were not in production yet (like the Slenderman fiddle etc). But overall, after they were sculpted (during the ensuing wait for plastic) would it have added that much time to the tooling process? Of that I am unsure.
Right, and while it's great that the original backers are getting this enormous "Monster" of a project for their original pledges, the end result is going to be a $250 board game with multiple $50-$100 expansions that very few people outside of the backers are going to be able to play. Not even counting how people are going to store and organise all these giant decks of cards, individual rulebooks and the like.
Personally, I think it will be an amazing, luxurious experience that I will have difficulty convincing friends to try or stick with and will see 2-3 play sessions in its lifetime. But will be an amazing painting project.
Also, I'm glad that people are still really pumped over the project 2 years on, but time for delivery very much is a factor. Aside from impatience, people's situations change - they move house (possibly to somewhere with less space), relationships end, people move away, have children, or die. The further away you get from the original proposed endpoint, the less likely people's personal situations are going to match what they were when they pledged.
I am really, really impressed with everything I've seen so far though, and perhaps boardgames deserve a few more mad grand follies.
Bioptic wrote: Also, I'm glad that people are still really pumped over the project 2 years on, but time for delivery very much is a factor. Aside from impatience, people's situations change - they move house (possibly to somewhere with less space), relationships end, people move away, have children, or die. The further away you get from the original proposed endpoint, the less likely people's personal situations are going to match what they were when they pledged.
When I pledged for this I had no kids. Now I have 4!
BrookM wrote: I think WGF at this point is done with KS as well for the time being.
WGF is simply building for DFG, KD, Wyrd, etc. They do great work, so I'm sure other "boutique" KS will continue to use them. If I were to want my designs realized in plastic, and I had the budget, WGF would be at the top of my list of manufacturers.
Is that actually true, or are the sentences actually reversed....
I DOUBLED the size of the core game, so "I'm sorry things are taking so long"
I'm throwing in some free bits and heads...so here are More delays.
"I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions...so More delays inbound "
If I was a gambling man, I'd say that's more likely the issue here. The original scope of this project was completely shat upon and discarded, and when you let so much creep and expansion happen, it's inevitable that there will be delays.
Lots of people don't like on KS when a campaign "fizzles" at the end because all of the planned KS goals have been met, but the ones that don't have people "chasing" last goals are the ones that tend to ship closer to on time because the project was better managed.
I'm not unhappy, but I think we should be realistic and not place all the blame on WGF.
I tend to agree with this assessment. KD:M has a certain amount of "unrestrained artistry" here, with a lack of editorial control. With an editor, someone says, you know, we don't need 10 heads, 3 or 4 will be enough - just keep the best ones, and leave the rest for a future expansion. That editor says, a set of 60 cards is plenty to start, save the other 40 for the expansion. Pick the best, the most distinctive, and move on. Versus throwing everything in the box. While Adam says that adding stuff it didn't add time, I doubt that very much - time was still spent on layout, proofing, etc.
Had KD:M simply pushed to get the base game in backer hands by December 2013, I think everyone would look at this as an unqualified success, with minimal griping over the delays for the remaining pieces still in production.
I don't really blame WGF. People go to them with *very* ambitious projects, things that push the state of the art. Those things take time to do "right", and by all indications, WGF delivers. Case in point: DFG's Leviathan Crusader. Mark committed to tooling as soon as he was sure the project would fund to allow production. The Crusaders shipped a few months late in Q1 2013, and people routinely rave over it. Granted that the subsequent waves of DFG product have been running very late, but the quality is there.
Sinful Hero wrote: To expand why the delays aren't really bothering me, besides actually communicating what's going on, Adam keeps doing things like this...
"I'm sorry things are taking so long, but I DOUBLED the size of the core game..."
"More delays, but I'm throwing in some free bits and heads..."
"Guys and gals I'm really sorry, here's another model for this expansion..."
"More delays inbound, but I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions..."
It's like the longer it's delayed, the better it gets from what I pledged for in the first place.
The question, to me, when he says stuff like this is:
Is that actually true, or are the sentences actually reversed....
I DOUBLED the size of the core game, so "I'm sorry things are taking so long"
I'm throwing in some free bits and heads...so here are More delays.
"I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions...so More delays inbound "
If I was a gambling man, I'd say that's more likely the issue here. The original scope of this project was completely shat upon and discarded, and when you let so much creep and expansion happen, it's inevitable that there will be delays.
Lots of people don't like on KS when a campaign "fizzles" at the end because all of the planned KS goals have been met, but the ones that don't have people "chasing" last goals are the ones that tend to ship closer to on time because the project was better managed.
I'm not unhappy, but I think we should be realistic and not place all the blame on WGF.
+1.
Well put, there- my instinct is there's at least a bit of truth to that hypothesis.
Sinful Hero wrote: To expand why the delays aren't really bothering me, besides actually communicating what's going on, Adam keeps doing things like this...
"I'm sorry things are taking so long, but I DOUBLED the size of the core game..."
"More delays, but I'm throwing in some free bits and heads..."
"Guys and gals I'm really sorry, here's another model for this expansion..."
"More delays inbound, but I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions..."
It's like the longer it's delayed, the better it gets from what I pledged for in the first place.
The question, to me, when he says stuff like this is:
Is that actually true, or are the sentences actually reversed....
I DOUBLED the size of the core game, so "I'm sorry things are taking so long"
I'm throwing in some free bits and heads...so here are More delays.
"I expanded the AI for all the encounters in the core game and expansions...so More delays inbound "
If I was a gambling man, I'd say that's more likely the issue here. The original scope of this project was completely shat upon and discarded, and when you let so much creep and expansion happen, it's inevitable that there will be delays.
Lots of people don't like on KS when a campaign "fizzles" at the end because all of the planned KS goals have been met, but the ones that don't have people "chasing" last goals are the ones that tend to ship closer to on time because the project was better managed.
I'm not unhappy, but I think we should be realistic and not place all the blame on WGF.
+1.
Well put, there- my instinct is there's at least a bit of truth to that hypothesis.
I would go with a "bit" of truth there, but not much more than that.
Based on their performance with DFG, WGF has some serious issues with production scheduling. I'm not well-versed on the topic, but my suspicion is that they are struggling to budget engineering time adequately between all their various projects due to the somewhat bizarre nature of multi-part miniatures compared to say, a Happy Meal toy. As a result, I think they are not completing phases like they thought they would be, which has a knock-on effect as they switch gears due to contracts or other requirements and have to keep circling back all the while juggling their own internal lines and anything else the factory is making that is not related to miniatures. That dates seem to continually slip on production points at this being at least partially an issue.
In both of the mentioned projects, months have passed where no progress was made on kits that has been reported. Factor in how involved the process actually is as well as how sometimes engineers make some very...unfortunate decisions which then have to be corrected in back-and-forth sessions over the course of weeks (time zones, schedules, etc.) and it's not hard to see where there is a lot of dead air in the overall project due to the plastic production cycle. In DFG's case, the project is the models, so there's nothing else to work on other than instructions and art. With this project, there's tons of things to work on, and I suspect the truth is more that Adam is filling the deadtime with something to feel "productive" more as a distraction from how undoubtedly frustrating it is to NOT be done with this. When you're a Type A workaholic, waiting around on a process that was described as a "negotiation" with a factory on the other side of the world would undoubtedly be maddening, especially as months rolled by.
Did the stuff he add put more time into the project? Sure, because that's basically a requirement of the physical world. Was it time that lengthened the project? Probably not, because this is a multi-branch proejct and it's likely the critical path through the plastic production would still be where it is at.
-Yes, I agree, if it said 2016 -- Still woulda backed it.
-I think this will be a horse with a strong finish… I think the only thing Adam has (slightly) overlooked is the promised T-shirts (Must have realized it this Black Friday, since the bundles DID NOT include 'em!!). It won't fizzle out like others.
-There was definitely SCOPE CREEP, but come on… when he's been waiting for tools to wrap-up, at least he was putting effort BACK into the game and not working on "KD:H," new expansions, etc. Yeah, there have been new monsters, models and pinups all the like, but if KD sits still, it'll be hell to get that train back on the tracks. Gotta keep those artists pumping out concepts, sculpts, etc… I bet the lead time on some of the resin production is anywhere from 6-9 months between shipping the Master sculpt, making the moulds, and building the run, shipping to the US, printing cards / art, boxing, and finally listing for sale.
-Yeah, if this ISN'T the definitive coop survival-horror SMASH hit of the century, there will be bunched-up panties the world over… The plus side is, the plastics will be beautiful, and plenty of folks will paint / convert / etc. drive demand for those needing to unload.
-Unhappy backers will probably have an easy time unloading this stuff… especially after Reviews start going up. Especially on the Core Game. Paid ~$100, and the MSRP is $200-300…. It'll be easy to make your cost and then some--Which would be FAR more than if you had put this in the savings all that time ago...
-EU / ROW shipping: If you luck out, and he can figure out a customs free way to get this to you, then, HUZZAH! If not, well, it wasn't like this fact was hidden when you backed it! Caveat Emptor.
-Adding a few weapons onto a sprue (the 3x added to Slenderman) here-and-there, didn't add countless hours of time reviewing. Especially back when these were being proofed, there was still a mountain of plastics to tool and approve! Of course, peppering the whole dish here and there added time. YES. But a few drops in the bucket overall. Probably the SINGLE biggest time sink was the issue with all of the male armor kits (arm sockets?) not being compatible with the others and all of the male kits had to be adjusted to fix that oversight.
-While I wish we could have gotten the Core first, there must have been a convoluted plan for how to tool everything. It seems like there was a drive to do the monsters & pinup / promos first, and a lot of the Armor Kits went last (and seem to be the most tedious and labor-intensive with all of the bits).
-Speaking of life events changing, I think someone mentioned on the KS comments "according to the CDC, 12 people will have perished before receiving their pledges"
--I think that this project was just so huge, it went from "simple game, fun concept, maybe a few stretch goals," to a bonanza of pinups, expansions and sculpts, and while Adam has been communicative and shows proof of development, I think there has been some opportunity to better address the concerns of the backers. There were a few windows (esp. this summer) where there were massive lulls in communication (which was addressed with SBT), but to me, the single greatest disappointment in the management of this entire project is the fact that many of the failed fulfillment goals, were BLATANTLY not going to happen on time.
When he secured the plastics plant (WGF) it was late May '13. Target fulfillment TO backers was still Nov '13. To tool, approve and produce 70-80 TOOLS alone, in that time frame, is practically impossible. Especially with the number of bits on each one! The Update announcing the delay, was, reactive… not proactive. Proactive would have been in the June Update: "Guys, great news, got a producer and they're pumped and it's a pet project. (as stated) …but, reality is, this probably will NOT ship in Nov, and almost definitely before / until Q1 '14." Same thing with the next (and next delay). From Adam's perspective, he could see the ends would not meet, not even close. He should have been more forthcoming with that information.
----Consider this, It'll take an entire QUARTER for this: Producing plastics, shipping to the second factory in China, then getting loaded on a boat and shipping to the States, clearance thru customs, delivery to KD, getting warehoused, organized / slotted, building boxes (rules, sprues, cards, etc), etc. before it'll even start to ship to backers. Not trying to fault Adam, for this is certainly a Herculean undertaking, but come on… Transparency is seeing that. Especially as soon as he saw that. Waiting until the week of fulfillment to share it'll be 6+ more months is crappy. At least the 3rd time, he shelved the ETA to curtail further butt-hurt (which caused a whole different kind).
That's really my only criticism of his management technique: Earlier acknowledgement of delays. Heck, after the campaign funded… even a short, 1 paragraph note about that: "Wow, we funded over $2M. We'll probably be looking at an early 2014 delivery at the soonest, but it'll depend when we find the plastics manufacturer..."
BUT…. All sides considered: Yes, this will wrap up and ship as one (unlike Ogre, Myth, WoK, etc, etc, etc), so we shouldn't be awaiting delayed and fumbled wave after wave…. Hey, at least this isn't Up Front. Or The Doom That Came to Atlantic City. We will see this. Even if we're old, gray, and grandparents… (my son was born mid-campaign, he's TWO on Wednesday! He should be talking by the time this arrives… "Mama, Dada got a BIG box… Dumpster sized." …. "Hey, honey…." "(Gulp), ….yeah?"
(BTW, Sorry if you were _secretly_ holding out hope for Up Front. I'm not the first to burst your bubble, I hope…)
Oh, and espresso takes, short, shotgun facts, and gives me ramble on powers...
IMO, the biggest loss is this not having been planned and edited for 2 Waves of shipping. Having a hard deadline for the base game, resins and Dragon King expansion would have kept a lid on the scope, and forced a number of key design decisions on how everything has to work. Once that first hurdle clears, the rest of the stuff simply needs to be compatible.
Oh well, the result will be impressive, when we finally get it.
I think that 2 waves of shipping might have killed the whole project,
in that KD asked for too little in terms of shipping (and far far too little if you are international)
and even paying for 2 waves I'll bet the extra they'd have added on would not have come close to covering the costs of the extra shipment (that is one scary heavy box)....
but then again it might have change the priorities and we'd have ended up with a smaller product sooner
(probably not though as the armour kit cross compatibility issues would have still led to big delays which would have given time for extra content to be added)
2 Waves means that the base game and joints would have been locked in stone a year ago. There wouldn't have been time to keep adding more stuff to the base game or the various sprues.
Initial timeframe was November of 2013. That would put the delay in absolute terms at approximately 18 months if this does ship in the summer. However, absolute terms are a bit disingenuous given that the project expanded a tremendous deal from the initial offering, not factoring in a switch from PVC plastic to HIPS. Since KickStarter doesn't allow changes in the delivery timeframes as projects grow past their scope, that introduces a problem in figuring out what the actual delay is. A year late seems more correct to me, but each individual has their own beliefs on how to calculate that more relative delay.
I am not aware of any rules out in the wild; only in the playtesting groups.
Most recent target delivery is June 2015 - 18 months delayed.
Assuming Adam hits things roughly as planned (and he appears to be pretty close), I think it's fair to say that most backers will have their stuff by the end of Q3, 2015 (Sep. 30, 2015); 99% of backers likely to be fulfilled by November 30, 2015.
2 years is a long time, to be sure, but I also backed Ogre, which had Wave 1 delivered full year late. There are significant stretch goals on that project that SJG hasn't even started to fulfill. From their Nov 2012 target to likely final fulfillment of their last stretch goal, it will likely be at least 3 years, probably 4 or 5 years given how slowly SJG is tackling them.
Is there somewhere I can see all the extra heads that come with this whole shebang? I tried digging through the updates, but damn it, too many of them.
This is what I've got written down (for a Survivor level pledge)
paul adam anna 2x Allister 2x Lucy 2x Ezra 2x Zachary 3x male unique survivor heads 3x female unique survivor heads
and that was at the end of the campaign so it's possible there may be more from Adam adding stuff to the armour kit sprues,
and of course I'm now going to a have to go through them as find out (curses)
3x female heads (with fancy hair styles)
and if you're getting the appropriate expansion
male lion knight court head female lion knight court head male skull helm head female skull helm head male dragon people head female dragon people head
phoenix mask (needs head to use) white lion mask (needs head to use) screamer mask (needs head to use) antelope mask (needs head to use) death mask (needs head to use) god mask (needs head to use) forsaker mask (needs head to use)
BrookM wrote: Is there somewhere I can see all the extra heads that come with this whole shebang? I tried digging through the updates, but damn it, too many of them.
We are going to be swimming in extra heads, extra arms, and extra weapons.
There is probably 3 peoples worth of extra for every set of torso+legs.
That I know, we pledged for one of everything. I just want to check and see what kinds of heads are going to be included, I swear there were one or two heads with an eyepatch, I just want to be sure, so I can claim that one for myself when it finally arrives and I can start magnetizing the heads.
For you Brook, I skimmed through every KD:M update since the end of the campaign and was unable to really find any heads that clearly showed an eyepatch. A lot of masks, but no eyepatch.
Krinsath wrote: For you Brook, I skimmed through every KD:M update since the end of the campaign and was unable to really find any heads that clearly showed an eyepatch. A lot of masks, but no eyepatch.
Edit: If you manually adjust the URLs you can get in, but I dunno if they'll respect any orders made that way. That said:
Flower Knight Expansion ($25)
Manhunter Expansion ($25)
Lion Knight and Court Expansion ($25)
Dragon King Expansion ($45)
Gorm Major Expansion (includes Regeneration Suit) ($45)
Dung Beetle Knight Expansion ($25)
Spidicules Major Expansion ($45)
Sunstalker Major Expansion ($45)
Lion God Expansion ($25)
The Lantern Festival Major Expansion ($45)
Slender Man Expansion ($25)
The Lonely Tree Expansion ($30)
Adam and Anna Explorers of Death ($30)
Promo: Holiday White Speaker Nico ($20)
Promo: Candy and Cola ($15)
Promo: Kara Black ($15)
Messenger of Courage ($15)
Messenger of the Spiral Path ($15)
Messenger of the First Story ($15)
Messenger of Humanity ($15)
Watcher ($15)
Beyond the Wall ($15)
Aya the Survivor ($15)
Paul the Survivor ($15)
Kingsmen x5 ($20)
Kingsmen x25 ($75)
XXXXXXX Armor (makes 4 minis) ($25)
XXXXXXX Armor x5 (makes 20 minis) ($75)
Green Knight Armor Male and Female ($25)
Extra Survivor level (includes shipping) ($225)
Extra game (includes shipping) ($150)
Four Starting Survivors ($60)
Six Starting Survivor Alternate Heads ($10)
KD: Monster Custom Dice x5 ($10)
Allison the Twilight Knight: Plastic ($15)
Flower Witch is a real beauty!
And some other cool new stuff… (Warlords!)
A timed release Xmas Pinup - HARD PLASTIC (With a KD:M gear card and plastic bits for your survivors)
And if you've been looking for Twilight Order Knights, Relic Knights or Deserters, the final run of the LE is available…
A "normal" figure is still $25… Flower Witch is more $$ because of all of the frilliness. Just like White Knight costing $27.50 due to his extra bits.
The price on the Xmas pinup is pretty steep, indeed… I think partially due to the fact it's plastic and a "limited" timed edition, he can't offset the cost of the mold over a longer lifetime printing run…. Plus, it comes will all of the extra decorations.
The Xmaxe looks pretty sweet. It has strength equal to your current insanity. It's irreplaceable (which I'd assume if you die with it on hand, it doesn't drop for scavenging). It also has two half red and two half green boxes letting it form a central spot for a double "line" combo for gear… That type of gear alone may be rare in the KD:M world. Who knows, though (ahem, Adam, play testers, ahem…)
I have to agree with Alph here. I understand the limited nature makes it such that you don't see the savings you normally would with plastic, but that really just makes me question why do it in plastic. Only things I can come up with is that this will be offered again next year or that they didn't want to mix materials with KD:M content (or a bit of both).
Excellent models though, even if I'd prefer more tanks or spaceships for the money.
It is likely the mold was aluminum. They are far cheaper to produce than standard steel molds, but they have a limited life span. That is why you're seeing more limited edition plastics being produced.
Annnndddd we are back to not getting any communication. Man those few weeks of updates where nice of golden backer updates.
This has been my problem with this kickstarter from the start and I think it has been glossed over a lot by everyone especially when the Golden Backer updates started.
However before that we would barely get any information regarding what whats happening despite there clearly being progress.
Further more delays on updates and posts on "Oh it will be in two more weeks" seemed common place.
I have faith this will get done but it sure is annoying that Adam seems to be back in the habit of "Don't Show, Don't Tell" mindset.
Pretty sure he mentioned he'll be gone until the 5th.
"@kingdomdeath: Season's greetings everyone! All webstore orders placed after 12pm EST on 12/23/14 will not ship until 1/5/15. Have a wonderful New Year!"
Sinful Hero wrote: Actually it's probably packin and shipping all the Flower Witches and what-not they sold. I just got my shipping notice a few days ago.
Joe does all of the packaging and web store orders now…
Adam might put up orders (like the Xmas stuff), but Joe does all of the shipping, confirmations and CS on orders (since it was too much for Adam to do all of that, the creation of new things, directing art, approving and editing tooling, etc.)
I got confirmation on the 8th or 9th, and it'll be here tomorrow (according to tracking!).
There were over 1000 orders during the holiday vacation (I ordered right after it dropped, and got mid 111XX) and ordered the promo (mostly free from some other things happening) before it closed up, and got 120XX.
It's a lot to do for one person, but Joe is stellar!
Oh, in regards to the longest span without word, I think that was last summer before the big Dung Beetle Knight Update (which also heralded the SBT announcement). It was like 2.5 months +/-
Right. Paddy's day it is, then!
It should be on its way to the 2nd manufacturer in China with any luck...
Well, nearly two weeks since the last update (er, comment?), and for the first time since the project began, my goodwill is starting to lag.
I realize this is crunch time and they're in the final push before Chinese New Year, yet somehow I'm more disappointed about this radio silence than the 2 months around the Dung Beetle update.
Maybe it's because it felt like there was finally a light at the end of the tunnel, only to return to being in the dark.
I, too, would like an update. Almost as much as I would like to see this project start shipping. At this point, it's very much the Agony and the Ecstacy..
Hello! Happy New Year! Just a quick note to let everyone know we are back in action. I will have an update prepared and out to everyone within the next few days. !
No word yet. I think he sits on some stuff for a good while before it comes out. Didn't we get a preview of the antelope beforehand, and waited 6 months or more?
Although this line of conversation may be more appropriate for the N&R Thread...
I almost dread when this does start shipping, as I'll bet it will take several months (for the US alone)
and lots of people will expect to get theirs within a few days of the first post about an arrival
it's bad enough in campaigns which are not nearly as anticipated, not nearly as delayed and which are being shipped with bigger organisations to do the packing (although probably not as dedicated to quality)
let alone the number of sets that have probably been picked up to be resold (or part resold) and the people who've done this will see the ebay prices spike and then steadily fall as they stuff slowly ships out.... (OMG I AM LOOSING MONEY, I must have my stuff yesterday etc)
Assuming that they bought at the start, the discount from then-predicted MSRP suggests they would be able to sell competitively enough to recover their "investment" with interest (currently running less than 1.0% annually). They will not lose money. They just won't make much money.
I think this will be in such high demand, whenever it finally ships, that they'll profit just fine... mostly on the core box though, which seems to be where the best deal was by far.
My friend actually added one this past Black Friday (which I think was at the original price?). Heck of an investment, that - all of the rewards, and only like a third of the waiting
Yeah, I like KD a lot, but I don't trust kickstarter and the fickle ways of man to drop that much scratch on it. I don't ever drop more than I can afford to lose.
I ordered literally everything on the pledge manager in Resin, and it still only comes out at just over a quarter of that figure. Some people really like vapourware RPG games!
I know this is gonna sound selfish but I honestly HATE the fact they let people come in later when it was assured they might get something.
Not to mention its the 2nd time Adam has let late backers in and we're 2 plus years down the line.
Anyone recall when we weren't even guaranteed plastic and other such things?
I dunno man; just feels like I've waited forever when there was way more risk when it really didn't matter because you could have waited.
Im in for around 350ish? I basically pledged to make sure to get all the expansions, only one I really don't have is the tree.
. Having similar tastes in media, food, games, and alcohol is pretty nice.
