No. 7+ is ML3

Ok. It used to be that if you took a council of say 4 warlocks, you could then split these 4 warlocks off into 4 other units.

I've seen the rules for the bikes and it now allows you to just add a warlock skyrunner when purchasing the unit and that Warlock has a ML1.

2 Questions. Here's my first. When you purchase a conclave, are the warlocks now stuck to the conclave? No splitting them off? Second question, If the answer to question one is that the warlocks are not allowed to split off, Do the guardians and other units have the option to add warlocks?

Thanks.

Yes and yes.

Is there any other restrictions to the seer council formation, other than the fact that you have to take atleast 5 warlocks?

Mymearan wrote:
Yes and yes.

Ok Thanks.

wighti wrote:
Is there any other restrictions to the seer council formation, other than the fact that you have to take atleast 5 warlocks?

The Farseers must join the Conclave and cannot leave the unit. If you upgrade one of the models to have a Jetbike, all of them must be upgraded.

Looks darn right awsome!

For anyone that has or has seen the coded, what is the upgrade cost on starshot missiles for dark reapers? Those guys seem purpose built to kill enemy wraithknights and jetbikes. Take them in the rumored aspect host for BS 5 and forget about it.

 buddha wrote:
For anyone that has or has seen the coded, what is the upgrade cost on starshot missiles for dark reapers? Those guys seem purpose built to kill enemy wraithknights and jetbikes. Take them in the rumored aspect host for BS 5 and forget about it.

It's still the same cost, although Exarchs no longer pay an increased cost over regular Reapers. The Reapers themselves are 5 points cheaper each though, so that's a decent cost reduction.

 buddha wrote:
For anyone that has or has seen the coded, what is the upgrade cost on starshot missiles for dark reapers? Those guys seem purpose built to kill enemy wraithknights and jetbikes. Take them in the rumored aspect host for BS 5 and forget about it.

A unit of 5, with an Exarch & Starshot missiles for the unit, is a quarter shy of 200 points.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 D4X wrote:

Gained the flyer attacks

Does it ignore cover?

Nope, so you can make them jink. Thing is its each hawk makes the attack, 5 pass over you get 5 haywire shots that hit on 4+

Is the attack a shooting attack or a special rule? If its a special rule then the Flyer will not be able to jink.

The Swooping Hawk's Interceptor is an attack, not a shooting attack.

Just had a warm fuzzy feeling enjoying the irony of all those future tabletop battles where 30+ Eldar Jetbikes and WraithKnights face off against 30+ Eldar Jetbikes and WraithKnights.

Eldar the tragic dying race, being wiped out at a faster rate by Eldar, than any other threat.

 adamsouza wrote:
Just had a warm fuzzy feeling enjoying the irony of all those future tabletop battles where 30+ Eldar Jetbikes and WraithKnights face off against 30+ Eldar Jetbikes and WraithKnights.

Eldar the tragic dying race, being wiped out at a faster rate by Eldar, than any other threat.

"Farseer Bikebutt has foretold [30 minutes of nothing]."

"Yeah well, Farseer Disbest has foretold that [30 minutes of nothing], should be this."

Fight breaks out, Tzeentch laughs.

double post

 N.I.B. wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Or, it just dawned on me, they are actually going to return to treating the Eldar the way they should be - the dying elder race, at the twilight of their existence. Strange, powerful, but failing.

Correct, their armies always field 250 points less than the opposing army (unless also Eldar) on the table. Special Rule 'Dying Race'. I don't think I've seen this one leaked yet.

Did you just make that up or is it actually in the codex?

Made up. Only buffs and price cuts other than the Serpent Shield and loss of Laser Lock.

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

As GW are known for writing sloppy rules I have to wonder if any windrider might be intended to mean any one windrider rather than every windrider.
The new studio windrider models that GW have made up carry one heavy weapon per squad, which indirectly supports this.
One per squad rather than one per three would be a nerf but it better than the cheesefest.

The cynic in me has to keep in mind that the 'mistake' of not specifying any one windrider might be rectified after they have sold enough of the new models.

That's obviously made up. It wouldn't even make sense; there are still billions upon billions more Eldar than there are marines of any Space Marine chapter.

 Orlanth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

As GW are known for writing sloppy rules I have to wonder if any windrider might be intended to mean any one windrider rather than every windrider.
The new studio windrider models that GW have made up carry one heavy weapon per squad, which indirectly supports this.
One per squad rather than one per three would be a nerf but it better than the cheesefest.

The cynic in me has to keep in mind that the 'mistake' of not specifying any one windrider might be rectified after they have sold enough of the new models.

Each new bike sprue has the bits to equip every model with either cannon or scatterlasers. I don't buy that...

 adamsouza wrote:
Just had a warm fuzzy feeling enjoying the irony of all those future tabletop battles where 30+ Eldar Jetbikes and WraithKnights face off against 30+ Eldar Jetbikes and WraithKnights.

Eldar the tragic dying race, being wiped out at a faster rate by Eldar, than any other threat.

I play Eldar and I will take some Jetbikes and will run the occasional WraithKnight. I've got no problem with my opponent doing the same. But I wont spam them and I'll decline to play anyone who does try it. Same goes for Decurion Bike/Wraith spam and any other list which leads to a pointless and boring game. I don't see the fun in playing with or playing against an auto win list.

Surely these list will only appear in the tournament scene, which in my mind is a joke these days anyways. Instead of winner they should be called the person that came up with the most broken rule abusing un fun list. Congrats on that achievement.

 whembly wrote:

Each new bike sprue has the bits to equip every model with either cannon or scatterlasers. I don't buy that...

That explains the source of the brainfart. GW made the reasonable move of making a one size fits all jetbike sprue, and then some genius in studio thought, why not let players take any combination.

It wouldn't be the first time a oner off upgrade was included multiple times for simplicity, most Fantasy command upgrades for example, many boxsets include multiple muscian and standard bearer arms, on e per sprue, even if you don't require remotely that many. You can outfit Silver Helms with musician and standard per four models, while the minimum unit size is five, it makes sense you have that many as it means one set of sprues fits all the options, Jetbikes could be similar, possibly were intended to be.

I am trying to get my head around why GW would want such a blatantly broken unit, and then model up most jetbikes with twin catapults as if they were a viable alternative to massed scatterbikes.
What is next, allow marines to have as many heavy weapons as they like per squad?

 Orlanth wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Each new bike sprue has the bits to equip every model with either cannon or scatterlasers. I don't buy that...

That explains the source of the brainfart. GW made the reasonable move of making a one size fits all jetbike sprue, and then some genius in studio thought, why not let players take any combination.

It wouldn't be the first time a oner off upgrade was included multiple times for simplicity, most Fantasy command upgrades for example, many boxsets include multiple muscian and standard bearer arms, on e per sprue, even if you don't require remotely that many. You can outfit Silver Helms with musician and standard per four models, while the minimum unit size is five, it makes sense you have that many as it means one set of sprues fits all the options, Jetbikes could be similar, possibly were intended to be.

I am trying to get my head around why GW would want such a blatantly broken unit, and then model up most jetbikes with twin catapults as if they were a viable alternative to massed scatterbikes.
What is next, allow marines to have as many heavy weapons as they like per squad?

Because it is a super viable combo, especially with the formation rule and shred once per game.

Ive been thinking on this a lot, and i actually think that mass scatter (even at 4 shots) is sub optimal for the unit when shred and bladestorm are taken into context. You have to take vipers, and warlocks, and a farseer. spears for anti tank are amazing. vipers for anti tank are great (emls ona 6 viper squad, with cannons, skyfire, tank hunting and infantry destruction) leave the jetbikes to mass bladestorm whatever they can....

So for just a quick reference here's the total possible movement in a turn for Aspect Warriors in the War Host Aspect Formation.

Banshees = Total Move 15"
Fire Dragons - 12"
Swooping Hawks - 24"
Dark Reapers = 6"
Warp Spiders - 36 "

Warp Spiders Move 6" + 2D6 , + 6" Run , Plus 2D6" Assault move. O_O

Warp Spiders are basically 6 + 2d6" + 6. You can only use the warp spider pack one way. So it's eaither 2d6+6 movement and 6 run or 6 movement, 6 run, and 2d6 assault move. So ti's max 24, similar to the hawks.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Warp Spiders are basically 6 + 2d6" + 6. You can only use the warp spider pack one way. So it's eaither 2d6+6 movement and 6 run or 6 movement, 6 run, and 2d6 assault move. So ti's max 24, similar to the hawks.

no.... your forgetting the thrust move for being jet pack infantry..... 6+2d6 in movement, 6 inches from battle focus, +2d6 thrust move in the assault phase.

No, I'm not. Read the rules. It chooses to either act as jet pack infantry OR can make that 6 + 2d6 jump move.

Same movement speed, what's your doing is the more important closing you'll use it for the warp jump move to get shots. Once engaged you'll normally use it as jetpack infantry to keep the range open.

 Orlanth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

As GW are known for writing sloppy rules I have to wonder if any windrider might be intended to mean any one windrider rather than every windrider.
The new studio windrider models that GW have made up carry one heavy weapon per squad, which indirectly supports this.

Each bike sprue actually has all three weapon options unfortunately

 warboss wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Or, it just dawned on me, they are actually going to return to treating the Eldar the way they should be - the dying elder race, at the twilight of their existence. Strange, powerful, but failing.

Correct, their armies always field 250 points less than the opposing army (unless also Eldar) on the table. Special Rule 'Dying Race'. I don't think I've seen this one leaked yet.

Did you just make that up or is it actually in the codex?

if only it were true.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Warp Spiders are basically 6 + 2d6" + 6. You can only use the warp spider pack one way. So it's eaither 2d6+6 movement and 6 run or 6 movement, 6 run, and 2d6 assault move. So ti's max 24, similar to the hawks.

Nope this is incorrect.

Here is the exact wording:

Warp Jump Generator

A model equipped with a Warp Jump Generator gains the Jet Pack Unit type as described in the Warhammer 40,000: The Rules . In the Movement Phase , a unit composed entirely of models equipped with a Warp jump generator can choose to either move as a Jet Pack Infantry or make a Warp Jump. If Making a Warp Jump , it immediately moves....

It's only in the movement phase do you not move as a Jet Pack infantry, you do not lose the Jet pack infantry type for the entire turn.

The rules state clearly

THRUST MOVE
A Jet Pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot or Run in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Jet Pack units move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they move just as they would when using their jet packs in the Movement phase.

Boom, Warp Spiders can move 2D6 + 6 , followed by a auto 6" run, followed by a 2D6 Thrust move in the Assault Phase.

Warp Spiders in the War Host move 4D6 + 12.

 Hulksmash wrote:
No, I'm not. Read the rules. It chooses to either act as jet pack infantry OR can make that 6 + 2d6 jump move.

Same movement speed, what's your doing is the more important closing you'll use it for the warp jump move to get shots. Once engaged you'll normally use it as jetpack infantry to keep the range open.

EDIT: Hollismason beat me to it

It states in the movement phase, they can move as jetpack infantry, or make a warp jump.

It does not say they loose jetpack infantry status for doing so.

A jetpack infantry model not engaged in combat can move 2d6 in the assault phase.

THE ONLY stipulation stated in the warpsider entry for not being able to use it, is if they are falling back.

same basically as 6th, and I have never seen anyone bar you argue against the fact they do not get a thrust move because they chose to move differently in the movement phase. thus, 36 inches movement a turn. just like last edition. the difference? IF you move them in your opponents turn, it becomes 6 movement, plus 6 battle focus, plus 2d6 thrust move via jetpack rules.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

As GW are known for writing sloppy rules I have to wonder if any windrider might be intended to mean any one windrider rather than every windrider.
The new studio windrider models that GW have made up carry one heavy weapon per squad, which indirectly supports this.

Each bike sprue actually has all three weapon options unfortunately

Ya know, in any other situation we would be praising this like crazy.

Warp Spiders got a crazy good buff this codex, to bad we'll never see them because JETBIKES

Hollismason wrote:
Warp Spiders got a crazy good buff this codex, to bad we'll never see them because JETBIKES

I think we will see tonnes of aspect warriors, jetbikes are not as super good as people state, and warpsiders are a lot easyer to hide than a tonne of bikes on the field.

I apologize as I was incorrect and my reading comprehension is dismal

BS 5 Reroll LD , Warp Spiders are pretty good In My Opinion

Also with the Warpspiders if I'm correct and if this hasn't already been mentioned - If the 2D6 roll is a double 1, one member of the unit is removed.

It used to be any double. They added the extra numerical 1 before the comma when comparing to my old codex description on page 67.

Yeah it's only on a Double 1 which is a perfectly fine draw back.

People seem to forget the Warp Spiders are no longer as good vs. vehicles. the +1str vs init3 or less is gone. Now that they "wound" vs Init, they are back to str6 guns vs AV.

While they are still good, the above should be taken into consideration. Also, wounding vs Init makes they worse against other Eldar, DE and most importantly: Daemons (specifically any FMC, Soulgrinders, daemonettes, seekers, etc)

I play both Eldar and Daemons semi-competitively and 4/5 of the matchups I have played as either vs the other resulted in a win for the Daemons. Most Daemon armies could hard counter Eldar in 6th, and I don see much of a change for 7th

Good.

They're firing monofilament nets at targets. They shouldn't get any kind of bonus against AV just because vehicles are low I.

A full squad is over all cheaper as well with an Exarch.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Good.

They're firing monofilament nets at targets. They shouldn't get any kind of bonus against AV just because vehicles are low I.

Not like I think this codex needs to be stronger or anything, but from a fluff perspective, which you seem to be arguing for here, I don't see that making much sense. How would it be harder for them to get more of their filament spray on target when attacking a large, possibly stationary metal box that is certainly much slower than themselves?

 eohall wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Good.

They're firing monofilament nets at targets. They shouldn't get any kind of bonus against AV just because vehicles are low I.

Not like I think this codex needs to be stronger or anything, but from a fluff perspective, which you seem to be arguing for here, I don't see that making much sense. How would it be harder for them to get more of their filament spray on target when attacking a large, possibly stationary metal box that is certainly much slower than themselves?

It's not a question of how much spray they're getting on target, but how effective said spray would be against something like a Land Raider or Leman Russ.

 Elemental wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Yes, so strategically place your units. Feed them a chaff unit if need be. Then, no that they're within range, eat them for breakfast next turn. 135 allied points, plus, what, 210 points for the D Scythes? Yeah, lots of points down the drain. Hope whatever they killed was worth it.

Not having a crack at you in particular, but there's a common error I see people making when arguing that a powerful thing isn't actually powerful. They assume that the one facing it will be a tactical genius, who will have available the exact counter, and will perfectly execute it. Meanwhile, the player of the unit in question will simply move forward and shoot at whatever's closest, with no tactical depth, no battle plan and no awareness of enemy units that actually threaten their plan and which should be eliminated first thing.

You are absolutely correct. I was the same way when starting out. Heck, first time I played Tau it was against 3 Riptides and I did everything in my puny power to hurt them, ignoring the things I should've been killing. But the thing is, this is supposed to be a more casual game, among people at a local store. So, going up against something you're not familiar with, you should ask your opponent what it does, and learn from the experience. That, and I'm hoping most people don't have a guy at their store that constantly runs 2-3 Wraithknights and only Jetbikes. He probably won't find any games that way, anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mr_draken wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Warp Spiders got a crazy good buff this codex, to bad we'll never see them because JETBIKES

I think we will see tonnes of aspect warriors, jetbikes are not as super good as people state, and warpsiders are a lot easyer to hide than a tonne of bikes on the field.

This is true. Aspects also aren't 27 points a model for pretty much the same durability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DiceDH wrote:


I'm glad you see it this way, I wish my Necron playing friend would. We've had a chat about the rumours and I've said I'd still like to use my WraithKnight and bikes, I've told him that I'm not intending to spam either. On occasion my WraithKnight and 12 Jetbikes with some warlocks in with them. He's of the opinion that he'll be shot of the board and what's the point. Even with Decurion 4+ Re-rolling 1's. If it turns out that way I'll adjust my list, I want a good game with the dice deciding not an auto win. I hope he comes round as he's my regular opponent.

I mean, I do think this codex has way too much room for abuse (Which is surprising, I thought a lot of that was going away with 7th edition cdexes), which I dislike. Jetbikes should not have been troops, much less have access to a heavy weapon each. That being said though, there are a ton of counters. Anything that can get within range will probably kill a few, as they are space marines. So tell your Necron player to use Night Scythes. Drop some guys, have them shoot at a unit of bikes, then have the Scythe shoot at another unit of bikes. And the Wraithknight? Destroyers, Deathmarks, Wraiths, ext. Necrons (granted, yeah, they're the other OP army currently) are the best counter for most things Eldar have, even taking into account the D-weapons galore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orlanth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

As GW are known for writing sloppy rules I have to wonder if any windrider might be intended to mean any one windrider rather than every windrider.
The new studio windrider models that GW have made up carry one heavy weapon per squad, which indirectly supports this.
One per squad rather than one per three would be a nerf but it better than the cheesefest.

The cynic in me has to keep in mind that the 'mistake' of not specifying any one windrider might be rectified after they have sold enough of the new models.

It is very possible to see an FAQ. In fact, it would make a lot of sense. So I'll be hoping for it. It would bring the codex in line much better with the other 7th edition codexes. (Then, just make the Wraithknight not spammable and we're good.)

Yeah, while I like bikes I can see 2 of the Aspect Hosts in any list I build with a probable 2 Hawk/4 Spider ratio. Spiders are just so fast and the ability to get out of rapid fire range if needed is huge.

What is next, allow marines to have as many heavy weapons as they like per squad?

Well, to be fair, Marine Bikers/DA biker units of three can take three specials (two weapons, one combi). Though one usually sees White Scars in units of five to unlock them as troops, the bikes are extremely competitive due to the weapon spamming reason.

 eohall wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Good.

They're firing monofilament nets at targets. They shouldn't get any kind of bonus against AV just because vehicles are low I.

Not like I think this codex needs to be stronger or anything, but from a fluff perspective, which you seem to be arguing for here, I don't see that making much sense. How would it be harder for them to get more of their filament spray on target when attacking a large, possibly stationary metal box that is certainly much slower than themselves?

Go attack an Abrahms with a Brillo pad, let me know how you get on.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 eohall wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Good.

They're firing monofilament nets at targets. They shouldn't get any kind of bonus against AV just because vehicles are low I.

Not like I think this codex needs to be stronger or anything, but from a fluff perspective, which you seem to be arguing for here, I don't see that making much sense. How would it be harder for them to get more of their filament spray on target when attacking a large, possibly stationary metal box that is certainly much slower than themselves?

Go attack an Abrahms with a Brillo pad, let me know how you get on.

Update.

The Abrahms is now super shiny and clean. I feel proud.

Hawks are still the best aspect. They are faster now, still ruin tanks and infantry, can redeploy anywhere and now can combat fliers. At 16ppm I think they are a bit too cheap, but keep in mind I play DE and scourges are the same cost for a model thats worse at everything I listed and requires upgrades that shift the units role one way lol.


edit I am still shocked at how inexpensive exarches are. 10pts for an extra BS WS W I and A with another USR... There no brainers.

Yeah the Exarch thing is nuts, here are extra rules a better dude and a cooler weapon.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
Ah here it is. Can't tell page # because I'm looking at pdf of the ibook. It's on page 481 of the ibook.

Gargantuan creatures - shooting - When a gargantuan creature or flying gargantuan creature makes a shooting attack, it may fire each of its weapons at a different target if desired. In addition, firing ordnance weapons has no effect on a gargantuan creature or flying gargantuan creature's ability to fire other weapons. Gargantuan creatures and flying gargantuan creatures cannot fire overwatch.

What about that paragraph says you can only fire 2 weapons?

The second paragraph under the Gargantuan creature section. It says Gargantuan creatures are monstrous creatures that have additional rules and exceptions given below.


The real question is: Is the gargantuan creatures rule that says each of it's weapons may fire at a different target referring to the 2 it is allowed to fire as a monstrous creature, or does it mean it can fire every weapon it has?

By the way both interpretations are completely valid, as the language used can literally mean both ways.

Maybe this one should go to the rules discussion section, and hopefully get an FAQ.

Its a permissive ruleset. GCs have additional exceptions, one of those being it can fire each of its weapons. If it has 27 weapons, it can fire each of those weapons. Pretty clear to me. I've also never seen a single tournament FAQ interpret it any other way.

Yes it is a permissive rule set. However, you are told that Gargantuan Creatures ARE Monstrous Creatures with additional rules and exceptions. The shooting rules for Monstrous Creatures allow you to fire 2 weapons. The Gargantuan Creature rules allow you to fire each of those 2 at separate targets, and further allows them to fire ordnance weapons without restrictions.

Although, like I said before, the rule is so poorly written, it can be interpreted correctly both ways.

Then why does it say "each" instead of "each of its 2 weapons" or "both of its weapons"? This is honestly the first I've ever heard of people interpreting GCs as being able to fire 2 weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the chances of bike weapons getting an FAQ are exactly 0. What happens when thousands of players model their bikes with scatter lasers? People said the serpent shield range would get an FAQ too, how did that work out for y'all? Oh that's right, it remained unchanged for the entire 2 year life span of the codex, just like I said it would. GW doesn't write FAQs to fix broken units in case you hadn't noticed. They may change some wording or fix how a USR works in a new edition, and clear up contradictions (stormfang template being listed as AP2 on one page and AP3 on another), but that's the extent of their FAQs. If you think they're going to FAQ wargear on models that tons of people have already glued the weapons onto, you're delusional.

GW doesn't write FAQS anymore. I don't know why people think this. They do not care about rules and your rule interpretations.

The last FAQ had like 2 Questions answered that no one asked.

None of the Eldar stuff will be FAQED ever ever ever.

This is the Eldar book for the next several years.

Hollismason wrote:
GW doesn't write FAQS anymore. I don't know why people think this. They do not care about rules and your rule interpretations.

The last FAQ had like 2 Questions answered that no one asked.

None of the Eldar stuff will be FAQED ever ever ever.

This is the Eldar book for the next several years.

There's a difference between 'GW doesn't write FAQs anymore' and 'GW doesn't write FAQs that I like anymore'.

 pretre wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
GW doesn't write FAQS anymore. I don't know why people think this. They do not care about rules and your rule interpretations.

The last FAQ had like 2 Questions answered that no one asked.

None of the Eldar stuff will be FAQED ever ever ever.

This is the Eldar book for the next several years.

There's a difference between 'GW doesn't write FAQs anymore' and 'GW doesn't write FAQs that I like anymore'.

Well, this would be rather disappointing, as there are tons of things in the Necron book that could use FAQs, just to clear things up. R.I.P - the other 2 Canoptek Spyders I bought awhile back.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Yes. I do not see ANYONE fielding the cannon over the scythe on Wguard. Even with the slightly shorter range (8" template vs 12" shot) and the -1D, a unit of D-scythes will still roast any vehicle faster than 5 cannons (or 10 meltas)

Lets do some rough maths, assuming all 2 unit are within 6":

How did you teleport them to the enemy? Fire Dragons can be put in a Falcon that can Deep Strike without scattering. Wraithguard can't.

.

Don't you have to take multiple Falcons in a squadron to not scatter? That's a hefty investment in and of itself and you have to rely on reserve rolls and deploying multiple falcons in your opponent's backfield is sometimes a difficult task. WG can go into a very durable WS, flat out turn one, be in position by turn 2 to deploy and erase.

I don't have my book with me, but doesn't a 2-5 on the destroyer chart do d3 penetrating hits instead of glancing?

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Yes. I do not see ANYONE fielding the cannon over the scythe on Wguard. Even with the slightly shorter range (8" template vs 12" shot) and the -1D, a unit of D-scythes will still roast any vehicle faster than 5 cannons (or 10 meltas)

Lets do some rough maths, assuming all 2 unit are within 6":

How did you teleport them to the enemy? Fire Dragons can be put in a Falcon that can Deep Strike without scattering. Wraithguard can't.

.

Don't you have to take multiple Falcons in a squadron to not scatter? That's a hefty investment in and of itself and you have to rely on reserve rolls and deploying multiple falcons in your opponent's backfield is sometimes a difficult task. WG can go into a very durable WS, flat out turn one, be in position by turn 2 to deploy and erase.

I don't have my book with me, but doesn't a 2-5 on the destroyer chart do d3 penetrating hits instead of glancing?

It does a single Penetrating hit, but does D3 hull points.

 Talys wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Galef wrote:
No, they actually generate 1 WC per Warlock:

http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643191286.jpg

Dammit, can't view pic. Will take your word for it, though I'm sure this was the case for something

The text reads:

A unit containing 1-3 Warlocks or Warlock Skyrunners is Mastery Level 1; a unit containing 4-6 is Mastery Level 2; a unit containing 7 or more is Mastery Level 7. If a unit's Mastery level is reduced as a result of models being removed as casualties, select one psychic power known to the unit for each Mastery Level lost. That power is immediately lost and cannot be used for the rest of the battle. This unit generates one Warp Charge point at the beginning of each Psychic phase for each Warlock or Warlock Skyrunner in the unit, regardless of its current Mastery Level.

That's almost comical.....Eldar will likely generate more WC than they will actually ever use (since they can reduce the cost of their spells and such). Of course, that means the farseer will never Perils with all those extra charges laying around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Yes. I do not see ANYONE fielding the cannon over the scythe on Wguard. Even with the slightly shorter range (8" template vs 12" shot) and the -1D, a unit of D-scythes will still roast any vehicle faster than 5 cannons (or 10 meltas)

Lets do some rough maths, assuming all 2 unit are within 6":

How did you teleport them to the enemy? Fire Dragons can be put in a Falcon that can Deep Strike without scattering. Wraithguard can't.

.

Don't you have to take multiple Falcons in a squadron to not scatter? That's a hefty investment in and of itself and you have to rely on reserve rolls and deploying multiple falcons in your opponent's backfield is sometimes a difficult task. WG can go into a very durable WS, flat out turn one, be in position by turn 2 to deploy and erase.

I don't have my book with me, but doesn't a 2-5 on the destroyer chart do d3 penetrating hits instead of glancing?

It does a single Penetrating hit, but does D3 hull points.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me. Still better than JUST d3 hull points.

Yea best case scenario is getting 3 WC's from your dice pool + 3 from a large council + any farseers also in range in the council (2 are required for the formation at least) so 3wc+3(warlocks)+6(two ML 3 farseers)=12 shots. should yield about 10 wounds before saves. If they have fortune or sanctuary or even conceal with jink your not killing more then a couple.

Yeah it's weird The Conclave has the psychic brotherhood rule and the Warlocks in the squads for upgrades have the psyker rule.

 Talys wrote:

 Thokt wrote:
Just browsed the GW store and noticed a number of items got bumped up in price - Wg $60 Vyper Squad $90.

I thought they were dialing back on price increases. Bastards!

Buddy... you are on the Canadian site. See the hockey stick... I mean... maple leaf... on the top right?

Edit: DAMMIT... Toofast was TOO FAST!!

Sometimes, it's good to be wrong.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

As GW are known for writing sloppy rules I have to wonder if any windrider might be intended to mean any one windrider rather than every windrider.
The new studio windrider models that GW have made up carry one heavy weapon per squad, which indirectly supports this.

Each bike sprue actually has all three weapon options unfortunately

Ya know, in any other situation we would be praising this like crazy.

Agsin as stated, it makes sense to have all the bits on one sprue so you dont need two separate sprues, one heavy weapons bike, one normal.
The free armament brainfart probably came later.

mr_draken wrote:

Because it is a super viable combo, especially with the formation rule and shred once per game.

Ive been thinking on this a lot, and i actually think that mass scatter (even at 4 shots) is sub optimal for the unit when shred and bladestorm are taken into context. You have to take vipers, and warlocks, and a farseer. spears for anti tank are amazing. vipers for anti tank are great (emls ona 6 viper squad, with cannons, skyfire, tank hunting and infantry destruction) leave the jetbikes to mass bladestorm whatever they can....

Shred, bladestorm, TL and 17pts is good.

4x S6, 36" range, on a jetbike for 27pts is crazy if you can spam it.

Its the range and high S which hurts, more than the 4 shots, you cant catch the jetbikes, they no longer need to close and can kill light vehicles, rear shot heavies (sometimes) kill hordes and force other stuff to make a zillion saves, and has good odds of killing most things. Cheap strength D handles the rest

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Is it not d3+1 hull points and d3+1 wounds?

Nah, I'm pretty sure that was the old wording. I kept thinking of the Escalation book, and that even a roll of 1 is an auto-pen. My friend had to point out that is no longer the case. Phew.

Same with the Imperial Knight codex.

They both used the Apocalypse rules.

I am very thankful it's been toned down somewhat but seriously, even toned down it's not something I would have ever considered giving to an army in bulky. Mind you, I still loathe the introduction of Super-Heavies.

I agree to a certain extent. I like having the option to have an Obelisk in a regular game, as it's a very tame super heavy. But having strength D, and Stomps, and all that other crap is a bit much, especially on a spammable level.

Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

So I have to buy another codex. Feth.

Just finished a complete Quartermaster template for the dex including formations and sent it in. Let's see if it goes up soon!

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

That seems to be the case, god that'll be fun

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

That seems to be the case, god that'll be fun

Looks like. Additionally: Overwatch is a shooting attack, so Flickerjump is available then as well (it does not specifiy a phase in which Flickerjump is legal, only whenever the unit is made the target of a shooting attack). Might have to get Trollface decals.

DCannon4Life wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

That seems to be the case, god that'll be fun

Looks like. Additionally: Overwatch is a shooting attack, so Flickerjump is available then as well (it does not specifiy a phase in which Flickerjump is legal, only whenever the unit is made the target of a shooting attack). Might have to get Trollface decals.

Didn't even think of that.....

DCannon4Life wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

That seems to be the case, god that'll be fun

Looks like. Additionally: Overwatch is a shooting attack, so Flickerjump is available then as well (it does not specifiy a phase in which Flickerjump is legal, only whenever the unit is made the target of a shooting attack). Might have to get Trollface decals.

The wording for that is pretty poor.

So if they're directly the target--they get to Flickerjump.

Let's say ordnance scatters over them though. RAW, since they weren't the selected target--no Flickerjump!

DCannon4Life wrote:

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

That seems to be the case, god that'll be fun

Looks like. Additionally: Overwatch is a shooting attack, so Flickerjump is available then as well (it does not specifiy a phase in which Flickerjump is legal, only whenever the unit is made the target of a shooting attack). Might have to get Trollface decals.

It'll end up in the same category as jink, which half of the community is firmly convinced doesn't work during overwatch. The logic being that a "target" is only chosen during the shooting phase with a very strict reading of the rules.

I don't agree, but there it is. Something else for everyone to argue about and GW to not put in an FAQ

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

That seems to be the case, god that'll be fun

It's so nice that GW manages to maintain such a low level of rules clarity. I think it's reasonably clear that it's not NOT the intention to allow multiple jumps in a turn, because it prevents you jumping in the next movement phase, but they didn't think far enough to realise it may get targeted more than once in a phase or a turn.

Wouldnt a flickerjump move still require a dangerous terrain test each time, so a 1 in 6 chance of dying everytime they do it?

No. Using the generator to Warp Jump ignores Dangerous Terrain tests. You are still vulnerable to the snakeyes penalty.

Hi,

Just wondering when the preorders are out. As in delivered?

What day can I go and pick them up from the store?

Cheers!

 Lurker wrote:
Hi,

Just wondering when the preorders are out. As in delivered?

What day can I go and pick them up from the store?

Cheers!

You can pick them up Saturday I think. They'd have been delivered during the week (yesterday? I've got Codexes early on the Wednesday before).

It must be time to lock this thread surely?

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah it's weird The Conclave has the psychic brotherhood rule and the Warlocks in the squads for upgrades have the psyker rule.

Why is that weird? It would be pointless to have a psychic brotherhood in a squad with only 1 psyker. I fel It's to keep seer councils from being crazy powerful.

Honestly, the enclave is only brotherhood of psyckers to cut down on book keeping.

I feel like it might actually be a deliberate, sensible attempt to tone them down a bit. Yes you get a whole bunch of dice, but you DON'T get 9 attempts to fish for the spell you want. That was one of the more powerful things about them - they could almost guarantee getting particular spells.

The Eldar drama is nearly over. It looks like the knew Knights may have Quake Cannon, Volcano Cannon, and Void Shield Generator. Could this not just be another Ranged D, but LONG Ranged D?

In 5 years, we can just remove all the non-D cannon units and call it a day. ESCALATION, BABY.

From BoLS -

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/new-imperial-knight-rules.html

•Crusader is armed with: Quake Cannon, TL Las-cannons
•Warden is armed with: Volcano Cannon, Multi-barreled Autocannon
•Both models have an optional top carapace missile launcher weapon mount, with multishot S8, AP3 anti-flyer capability
•Both models are protected by a single energy field based heavily on the rules for the Stronghold Assault book’s Void Shield Generator.
•Armor Values: Front:14 Side:13 Rear:13
•Hull Points: 8
•Both models clock in well above the cost of the Knight Paladin/Errant

So then there is no Escalation or Apocalypse anymore. There is just Mega 40k...

Hm...

The Eldar: "Though we may me a dying race, we'll make sure you die long before us." *Prepares scatbikes and D weapon spam*

The Imperium: "Don't be so sure, foul Xenos!" *Prepares new, more powerful Knights*

*Universe explodes and every faction gets wiped from the material plane, with CSMs and Orks dying first*

 Talys wrote:
The Eldar drama is nearly over. It looks like the knew Knights may have Quake Cannon, Volcano Cannon, and Void Shield Generator. Could this not just be another Ranged D, but LONG Ranged D?

In 5 years, we can just remove all the non-D cannon units and call it a day. ESCALATION, BABY.

From BoLS -

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/new-imperial-knight-rules.html

•Crusader is armed with: Quake Cannon, TL Las-cannons
•Warden is armed with: Volcano Cannon, Multi-barreled Autocannon
•Both models have an optional top carapace missile launcher weapon mount, with multishot S8, AP3 anti-flyer capability
•Both models are protected by a single energy field based heavily on the rules for the Stronghold Assault book’s Void Shield Generator.
•Armor Values: Front:14 Side:13 Rear:13
•Hull Points: 8
•Both models clock in well above the cost of the Knight Paladin/Errant

It's well over 375 points so expect something closer to the cost of two wraith kniights

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea best case scenario is getting 3 WC's from your dice pool + 3 from a large council + any farseers also in range in the council (2 are required for the formation at least) so 3wc+3(warlocks)+6(two ML 3 farseers)=12 shots. should yield about 10 wounds before saves. If they have fortune or sanctuary or even conceal with jink your not killing more then a couple.

If the Culexus is in 12" of the Warlocks they loose their blessings immidiatly, by the Psychic Abomination rule.

I like his Anti-psy rules..., i think i will take one wiht my Deamonkin for the lolz next time i face my deamon of Tzeentch/T-sons buddy..., ohh the laugh i will have...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Eldar: "Though we may me a dying race, we'll make sure you die long before us." *Prepares scatbikes and D weapon spam*

The Imperium: "Don't be so sure, foul Xenos!" *Prepares new, more powerful Knights*

*Universe explodes and every faction gets wiped from the material plane, with CSMs and Orks dying first*

Exalted !!

 Accolade wrote:
So then there is no Escalation or Apocalypse anymore. There is just Mega 40k...

Hm...

It's BoLS, I wouldn't worry much.

It's up to you to decide the kinds of 40k games you want to play.

They may as well print that in the rule book. Oh wait, they already did.

So.. do we know everything by now then?

 Sir Arun wrote:

As an eldar player getting my collectors edition today, i approve of this video

 adamsouza wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Eldar: "Though we may me a dying race, we'll make sure you die long before us." *Prepares scatbikes and D weapon spam*

The Imperium: "Don't be so sure, foul Xenos!" *Prepares new, more powerful Knights*

*Universe explodes and every faction gets wiped from the material plane, with CSMs and Orks dying first*

Exalted !!

I can't help but think that development will go as follows the next year and a half.

Orks: No! No! We gave Eldar D-weapons and added more knights. What can we do? SD Shokk Attack weapons! 250 point Stompa! SD choppas!
AM: Roll out the Volcano Cannons!
Dark Eldar: You can ally with Eldar. Deal With It.
Necrons: MORE S D.
Tyranids: You get Fleshbane! And...uh....SD Boneswords! And Crack-stealers that will die instantly to the mass SD range spam!
Space Marines: More like D Marines.
Sisters of Battle: More like Strength D of Battle, eh?
Tau: Everything pulse is SD and ignores cover!

Chaos: NO. YOU GET NOTHING. SUFFER FOR THE SINS OF HAINES. (*Mutter mutter* no one liked your stupid 4 Heavy support Iron Warriors with its Siren spam. You deserve all this.)

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It's up to you to decide the kinds of 40k games you want to play.

They may as well print that in the rule book. Oh wait, they already did.

Right, they've always printed that in the rulebook. Of course printing that in the rulebook means very little since I sure as hell don't need GW's permission to play the way I feel like anyway.

However, since I am mainly in the PUG side of the environment and lack a gaming group where we sip tea and muse over our current narrative campaign, I've been finding people using the rules to their maximum benefit. Maybe not max jetbikes and wraithknights, but usually in the shades of grey where it becomes hard to argue that someone is purposely being cheesy. That to me is the problem with the rules becoming more and more open-ended (besides the fact that it makes their increasingly-quicker recycling even more pointless)- the increasing arms race of plastic miniatures and dilution of value of any of the existing models. I'm getting less and less mileage per dollar invested, although I'm not entirely sure the game experience is becoming more enriching by inflating everything that much more (I would argue it is not but that is a separate topic). I much preferred the greater structure that 5th and previous editions offered as compared to this new mini-Apoc that is taking over core 40k.

So I think I will do as GW says and see if I can get people to play previous editions. I still enjoy my miniatures greatly but I'm just not onboard with what GW is trying to sell me anymore.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Eldar: "Though we may me a dying race, we'll make sure you die long before us." *Prepares scatbikes and D weapon spam*

The Imperium: "Don't be so sure, foul Xenos!" *Prepares new, more powerful Knights*

*Universe explodes and every faction gets wiped from the material plane, with CSMs and Orks dying first*

Exalted !!

I can't help but think that development will go as follows the next year and a half.

Orks: No! No! We gave Eldar D-weapons and added more knights. What can we do? SD Shokk Attack weapons! 250 point Stompa! SD choppas!
AM: Roll out the Volcano Cannons!
Dark Eldar: You can ally with Eldar. Deal With It.
Necrons: MORE S D.
Tyranids: You get Fleshbane! And...uh....SD Boneswords! And Crack-stealers that will die instantly to the mass SD range spam!
Space Marines: More like D Marines.
Sisters of Battle: More like Strength D of Battle, eh?
Tau: Everything pulse is SD and ignores cover!

Chaos: NO. YOU GET NOTHING. SUFFER FOR THE SINS OF HAINES. (*Mutter mutter* no one liked your stupid 4 Heavy support Iron Warriors with its Siren spam. You deserve all this.)

Nope. It's going to go: Orks? You just got a brand new codex you don't need one for another 4 years. Deal with it.

Well if the orks were just winning all the time -how sad and depressed they would be!
Probably the only truly happy race in the universe of only war.
Surely, they have a real good time, even if the codex sucks.

Looking at the detachment rumors for the guardian battle host - are we certain that's a Vaul's Wrath battery - as in 3 weapons, or just one?

- Also curious is you can take one vyper and one war walker for the battle host as well.

 Thokt wrote:
Looking at the detachment rumors for the guardian battle host - are we certain that's a Vaul's Wrath battery - as in 3 weapons, or just one?

- Also curious is you can take one vyper and one war walker for the battle host as well.

Those are generally 1-3, so you should be good.

Thanks Pretre! I've been trackin' all this nonsense and somehow missed the page photo. I'm thinkin' the minimal battle host will be a go to eh?

Well to be fair Orks do already have Str D on their SAGz, they just need to roll a double 6 (Vortexes are always Str D IIRC)

I'm unfamiliar with the term SAGz.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'm unfamiliar with the term SAGz.

Shock Attack Gunz

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Big-Mek-with-Shokk-Attack-Gun;jsessionid=FD1735FC8CBCE80773B72FE12B620177?_requestid=2050617

Ah. Well. Something that can be a D weapon 1/36 of the time does not make my list of D-weapons. Lol.

Well since all of our worst fears are confirmed, are there any eldar rumors left?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Well since all of our worst fears are confirmed, are there any eldar rumors left?

I think we are all done on the Eldar front.