First, thanks very much judgedoug. Very cool of you.

Regarding the price: If the codex length is accurate (160 pp) what is the big flip out?! Surely you would rather pay $58 for 160 pages than $48 for 100 pages....

The Space Marines codex is exceptional, IMO the best value of any codex printed. Why would an eldar player not want the same for their faction?

Also: Craftworlds make these Eldar distinct from other Eldar, like Exodites and Dark Eldar. Has anyone thought that the 160 page book might include Iyanden? After all, that's a craftworld. And it would make the book a great deal, since you're getting the supplement built in, right?

 Accolade wrote:
It is indeed, most of them are around 100-110 pages. The old Eldar codex from two years ago is in that same range, so either they've added 75+ pages of additional material or they're going for pricing popular books higher, I can't really say which it is they're doing.

I do however think this replacement of hardcover $50+ books every two years is atrocious.

It is supposed to about the same size as the SM codex, so pricing it the same as the SM codex seems fine.

Also, even if we count on a new book every 2 years, is putting aside $2.50 a month really much of a hardship? It's still less than a video game

 Talys wrote:
First, thanks very much judgedoug. Very cool of you.

Regarding the price: If the codex length is accurate (160 pp) what is the big flip out?! Surely you would rather pay $58 for 160 pages than $48 for 100 pages....

The Space Marines codex is exceptional, IMO the best value of any codex printed. Why would an eldar player not want the same for their faction?

Also: Craftworlds make these Eldar distinct from other Eldar, like Exodites and Dark Eldar. Has anyone thought that the 160 page book might include Iyanden? After all, that's a craftworld. And it would make the book a great deal, since you're getting the supplement built in, right?

I'm thinking Iyanden will remain unique.

However...Alaitoc, Altansar, Biel-Tan, Saim Hann and Ultwhe getting some love might be well worth.

I don't think that it's based on releasing books every 2 years. Not 100% sure but I thought that for 6th it went DA, CSM, Daemons, Tau, Eldar. At worst I've got Tau and Eldar mixed up. Any of those books would need a re-release too and if it was an every two year thing would have been released. Eldar are still a holdover of specific designers doing books (just like the other mentioned). That said they are probably one of the more popular and they have new models available so it's first.

Expect them to finish out the 6th edition books and then mostly focus of supplements or books like Harlequins, Daemonkin, and Skitarii.

I hope Iybraesil and the other smaller craftworlds get some love. That'd make my GF mighty happy.

Only the most popular factions get a codex every edition; others, like Blood Angels and Dark Angels get skipped often.

I would not mind all of the main codices (Eldar, SM, Ork, Tau, DE, Necron, Tyranid, CSM, IG) getting a refresh every 2-3 years. That's 3 main books a year, no biggie. Subfactions like covens, SM chapters, and minor factions like IK every 5 or 6 years depending on model drops.

The funny thing is, GW can't win. CSM want a book sooner, some want Eldar later... Lol.

 ronin_cse wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
It is indeed, most of them are around 100-110 pages. The old Eldar codex from two years ago is in that same range, so either they've added 75+ pages of additional material or they're going for pricing popular books higher, I can't really say which it is they're doing.

I do however think this replacement of hardcover $50+ books every two years is atrocious.

It is supposed to about the same size as the SM codex, so pricing it the same as the SM codex seems fine.

Also, even if we count on a new book every 2 years, is putting aside $2.50 a month really much of a hardship? It's still less than a video game

The issue to me personally is what is the value in these two year rules release cycles? You get books that are rather regurgitated, if not in fluff then essentially in rules. The biggest things people seem to want is some units to be improved, but why does that require a whole new book every two years? Inevitably some units will be buffed and then others inexplicably nerfed...there can (rarely) be universal improvement, and even then you get two years before something changes.

And some might say "it's the same thing for games like CoD" and they'd be largely right too. I don't see value in buying things as essentially a subscription without offering changing content.

There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

would love to see farseers become 1-3 per HQ slot. that would make me happy.

 danjbrierton wrote:
would love to see farseers become 1-3 per HQ slot. that would make me happy.

That wouldn't make much sense neither fluff- nor game-wise, would it?

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

Except that 7th edition dropped after two years to replace 6th... and now this replaces the eldar codex after two years... and we've got rumors of replacement tau and space marine codex books coming this year as well. That, my friend, is a trend. GW is not suddenly going to get less desperate or greedy given the past decade.

Mymearan wrote:

 danjbrierton wrote:
would love to see farseers become 1-3 per HQ slot. that would make me happy.

That wouldn't make much sense neither fluff- nor game-wise, would it?

Are councils strictly warlocks and 1 farseer?

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

I believe Dark Angels and Chaos are rumored to be coming about sometime in the near future, although I think their releases will be closer to 2.5 years.

I just don't understand what the point of a new book for the Eldar is, other than GW can't accept releasing new models without a corresponding book. Is it just the hatred of the wave serpent that makes people want to see a new book come about? I mean, I realize there are other units that could use tune-ups too, but it's not like GW is working towards perfecting their rules, so that can't be an aspiration of the book.

EDIT: also what warboss said pertaining to new books.

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

Except that 7th edition dropped after two years to replace 6th... and now this replaces the eldar codex after two years... and we've got rumors of replacement tau and space marine codex books coming this year as well. That, my friend, is a trend. GW is not suddenly going to get less desperate or greedy given the past decade.

Yes, and from what I understad they replaced 6th so quickly because there were so many problems with it. I also understand they are now trying to make sure every book is updated to the current edition before moving on

There will almost certainly be a Seer Council formation with 1 Farseer and 2-whatever Warlocks/Spritseers. Expect Warlocks to be promoted to full HQ status like Crypteks.

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

Except that 7th edition dropped after two years to replace 6th... and now this replaces the eldar codex after two years... and we've got rumors of replacement tau and space marine codex books coming this year as well. That, my friend, is a trend. GW is not suddenly going to get less desperate or greedy given the past decade.

It's a trend that they're updating books for 7th edition, not that they're doing new editions every two years, which has only happened once. We have seen a lot of new stuff from GW recently, who would have predicted mini-codices a couple of years ago? There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.


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 Accolade wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

I believe Dark Angels and Chaos are rumored to be coming about sometime in the near future, although I think their releases will be closer to 2.5 years.

I just don't understand what the point of a new book for the Eldar is, other than GW can't accept releasing new models without a corresponding book. Is it just the hatred of the wave serpent that makes people want to see a new book come about? I mean, I realize there are other units that could use tune-ups too, but it's not like GW is working towards perfecting their rules, so that can't be an aspiration of the book.

EDIT: also what warboss said pertaining to new books.

Well, it's a 6th edition book created with the 6th edition mindset, with FoC-changing characters, no formations, etc. Same as Dark Angels, Chaos and Tau. That's a reason for updating it. If there's no 8th next year, there won't be any need to update the 7th edition codices. So until we know for sure that they're moving to a two-year cycle for edition updates, I don't think we should assume it.

Mymearan wrote:
There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.

You're just guessing/hoping there, not following any current data. The current data suggests they're on a 2 year rules cycle instead of a 4-5 year one that they previously used.

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.

You're just guessing/hoping there, not following any current data. The current data suggests they're on a 2 year rules cycle instead of a 4-5 year one that they previously used.

Using ONE data point as a predictor of all future outcomes is also guessing.

I think it's utilizing multiple points. Back when 6th gave way to 7th, it was hard to argue it was a trend obviously since it was just that one instance, but if these other couple of books are to be updated, then that represents another couple of points.

And this isn't GW trying to get everything up to the same edition going on with the codexes from 6th, they are just trying to establish a pacing they want to have books coming out at. I honestly don't understand how everything they do gets rationalized into some mindset of them working to goals with the game that are not simply them trying to generate as much venue as possible. The astronomical prices of these new LE products show that GW is just trying to get the maximum amount of money out of the smallest number of customers possible to limit the needs of infrastructure and thereby increase profit. I don't blame them necessarily for trying to do that, but I'm not going to pretend that they have any other goals in mind.

Mymearan wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.

You're just guessing/hoping there, not following any current data. The current data suggests they're on a 2 year rules cycle instead of a 4-5 year one that they previously used.

Using ONE data point as a predictor of all future outcomes is also guessing.

The rulebook and this codex make two and last I checked two data points make a line/trend. The rumors of the multiple upcoming books will likely constitute #3-#5. Depending on whether the Iyanden and Farsight books are invalidated as well if they're not compatible with the new versions of the core books, they might end up #6-7. The two year rules life cycle is officially here. If you had said a couple years ago that there was no way GW would replace 6th edition and that those 50% more expensive hardback codex books they were coming out within two years, you'd have been just as wrong but at least there you would have had the past backing you up. If you're fine with this new current trend of GW fleecing you every two years, so be it.. just get your head out of the sand and stop pretending that this will stop at some imaginary point that you've deemed appropriate. You can *HOPE* they won't rehash the 7th edition codex books. The fact is that GW officially just got 300% more expensive to keep up with on the rules side. Previously you had $30-35 codex books replaced every 4-5 years and you now have $50 books (or technically $58 in this case) being replaced in 2 years. I don't think that is acceptable from a consumer standpoint. It's a douche move when Mantic and Dream Pod 9 do it and it's a douche move when GW does... unfortunately, it's becoming common in the industry.

The eldar had too many 6th ed specific rules to keep it in 7th without a major overhaul with the faq.

They had the jetbikes ready for years, they just decided to put out the wraith blades alongside the new knight.

They got a huge jump in sales from people spamming waveserpents for two years.

There is also the chance they are hearing the complaints about the old dex, and are overhauling it to make people happy. They started writing codecies as a group instead of single writers.

There are a lot of reasons for the two year cycle. There is a new ceo, there were going to be changes implemented to shove the company back to a more stable place at the top. I can't wait to see what happens

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The eldar had too many 6th ed specific rules to keep it in 7th without a major overhaul with the faq.

This. Eldar has so many things that don't work right in 7th Ed with the change to the Psychic Phase. With a new Harlequin Codex, they have to go back and update Eldar to remove the redundant units from the Codex.

Whereas CSM is basically so mild of a Codex that it requires little to keep it in line with 7th Ed in comparison.

 Accolade wrote:
I think it's utilizing multiple points. Back when 6th gave way to 7th, it was hard to argue it was a trend obviously since it was just that one instance, but if these other couple of books are to be updated, then that represents another couple of points.

And this isn't GW trying to get everything up to the same edition going on with the codexes from 6th

Honestly, how do you know that?

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The eldar had too many 6th ed specific rules to keep it in 7th without a major overhaul with the faq.

They had the jetbikes ready for years, they just decided to put out the wraith blades alongside the new knight.

They got a huge jump in sales from people spamming waveserpents for two years.

There is also the chance they are hearing the complaints about the old dex, and are overhauling it to make people happy. They started writing codecies as a group instead of single writers.

There are a lot of reasons for the two year cycle. There is a new ceo, there were going to be changes implemented to shove the company back to a more stable place at the top. I can't wait to see what happens

I don't really see how any of those (barring the people being unhappy with the last book) benefit us instead of just GW's pockets. Why not release the jetbikes at the same time? So they can warrant a new codex release in the future by dividing out releases over time? (personally I think the reason the jetbikes didn't get released earlier was because they weren't yet a dual-kit, and GW wanted to make sure they could cover all of their bases, hence the jetbikes didn't get released).

The waveserpent thing, it sounds like they're selling as many wave serpents as possible before they gimp them and make something else the new black. And I don't understand how the new CEO (who seems to just be a puppet for Kirby, who is still largely in control as chairman) is instilling confidence in anyone other than stockholders by maintaining a release rate of codexes at twice the speed of a few years ago.


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Mymearan wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I think it's utilizing multiple points. Back when 6th gave way to 7th, it was hard to argue it was a trend obviously since it was just that one instance, but if these other couple of books are to be updated, then that represents another couple of points.

And this isn't GW trying to get everything up to the same edition going on with the codexes from 6th

Honestly, how do you know that?

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

 Accolade wrote:

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

More accurately, I'm hoping it's not. My take is that they released 7th, and now they want all the codices to be tailored to the new edition. Thus the accelerated release pace. When they're done with updating the 6th codices, they can slow down the updating and focus on more new stuff like Harlequins, AdMech, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch and other rumored stuff. That way they can keep releasing new toys to make them money without the need to maintain the current rapid pace of updates. I don't see this theory as more or less likely than yours, but it's my guess.

Mymearan wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

More accurately, I'm hoping it's not. My take is that they released 7th, and now they want all the codices to be tailored to the new edition. Thus the accelerated release pace. When they're done with updating the 6th codices, they can slow down the updating and focus on more new stuff like Harlequins, AdMech, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch and other rumored stuff. That way they can keep releasing new toys to make them money without the need to maintain the current rapid pace of updates. I don't see this theory as more or less likely than yours, but it's my guess.

Oh, I certainly hope they don't either. I'd much prefer them to stabilize the game and, if not balance, at least populate it with a number of new books and balance the pricing they're asking for said books. I think the models are premium quality, but the books really aren't. Hopefully the Skitarii book will represent some forward direction in that, I don't necessarily think that'll be the case but I do hope so nonetheless.

Spending a week in the release cycle to update an older book is probably a solid plan. Every single Eldar player will likely pick up the new book. Whereas, with a model release, or an update of an older model, not every player of that army will pick it up for various reasons. Updating the books is probably much easier to do as well.

That's what got said about the supplement books in 6th. Oh they're just cranking out the main codexes so they can focus on supplements until the new edition comes out in 4-5 years time. And then 7th happened. I don't believe GW will wait a couple years after they've updated all the codexes to release 7th, they never have before. That's a datapoint right there.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Spending a week in the release cycle to update an older book is probably a solid plan. Every single Eldar player will likely pick up the new book. Whereas, with a model release, or an update of an older model, not every player of that army will pick it up for various reasons. Updating the books is probably much easier to do as well.

I just think that's bad for the overall health the game. They're going for short-term profits while burning more and more customers who are getting exhausted of the pace they need to maintain to stay current with their army and the game itself. Again, they might not care because if GW could get their customer base down to a few thousand who spend an exorbitant amount on the game (greater than say $5,000 a year), then whose to say they shouldn't? It just makes me sad to see 40k going the the direction away from inclusivity and towards Apple/Porsche-emulating elitism. Long ways from the days of 5th...

Well anyway, I've taken up more of this thread than I deserved, so I'm going to leave it at that.

 Accolade wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Spending a week in the release cycle to update an older book is probably a solid plan. Every single Eldar player will likely pick up the new book. Whereas, with a model release, or an update of an older model, not every player of that army will pick it up for various reasons. Updating the books is probably much easier to do as well.

I just think that's bad for the overall health the game. They're going for short-term profits while burning more and more customers who are getting exhausted of the pace they need to maintain to stay current with their army and the game itself. Again, they might not care because if GW could get their customer base down to a few thousand who spend an exorbitant amount on the game (greater than say $5,000 a year), then whose to say they shouldn't? It just makes me sad to see 40k going the the direction away from inclusivity and towards Apple/Porsche-emulating elitism. Long ways from the days of 5th...

Well anyway, I've taken up more of this thread than I deserved, so I'm going to leave it at that.

I'm not convinced it actually burns players. It's exciting to get your Codex updated. Maybe it burns a bit for players who are less invested and for whom the two-year old Codex seems "just like yesterday". But they were probably already burned by GW anyway. The pace of updates keeps things fresh and exciting.

Mymearan wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

More accurately, I'm hoping it's not. My take is that they released 7th, and now they want all the codices to be tailored to the new edition. Thus the accelerated release pace. When they're done with updating the 6th codices, they can slow down the updating and focus on more new stuff like Harlequins, AdMech, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch and other rumored stuff. That way they can keep releasing new toys to make them money without the need to maintain the current rapid pace of updates.

I think the rapid release schedule is here to stay for exactly this reason. By splitting up the range (Skitarii separate from a larger AdMech release, Harlequins, etc) and having smaller releases (like these jetbikes plus a clampack or two) GW can keep much of the range feeling fresh most of the time with less effort than they needed before. The traditional monthly release of a codex plus ~5-6 new kits is now a thing of the past, GW could only ever manage a handful of them a year which inevitably left a lot of people alienated as their favoured army didn't get any attention.

40k is the main product for GW. Any slowdown it sees is only ever going to be a temporary one, such as for a new WHFB edition. After that we're back on the 40k train. Toot toot.

I am excited for and as an eldar player that they are getting an update now instead of later.

As someone who goes to tournaments, owns wave serpents(just bought my third one), has played wave serpents, and hates wave serpents, I would happily pay just to see that unit officially nerfed.

That unit was so powerful that I bet while wave serpent sales went up, so many other unit sales went down it was a net loss for them. That unit single handedly eliminates entire army builds. There are so many models that I want to play, so many armies that I want to put on the table and actually take to a tournament(since that is the main time I really get to play now-a-days). Then someone mentions "wave serpents" and its back to the drawing board. It is a unit that removes skill from the game as a factor, I can bring a good all rounder army and as a pretty decent player do well, however wave serpents no matter the skill level of the player will have a solid chance of just killing me and there is little to nothing I can do about it.

Think of the heldrake and ovesa star back in 6th edition, grey knights at the end of 5th. That model single handedly removed entire potential armies from the game and forced a complete meta shift and made armies that normally wouldn't work super powerful, or forced armies that are not fun to play or play against as they were the only thing that you could play.

Your armies primary requirement will not be "can I survive 5 wave serpents and then kill them". This will cancel out some of the deathstar builds as now msu like rhinos will be much more useable. While there will always be something that is unbalanced.

I was talking to my friend and once wave serpents are gone I believe the meta is gonna go crazy for awhile. I have a full imperial motor pool that has not seen the light of day because of wave serpents. Rhinos, Chimeras, AV 11/12 vehicles will see a resurgence. More elite infantry will be much more use able since there is not going to be as much fire power you have to survive. Really, once the that unit is gone we will have to re-evaluate almost all of the books since the edition dropped. I have already started making lists for a post wave serpent world and let me tell ya, I am excited.

I think most of the worst offenders will have been taken care of with this book (wave serpent, heldrake, ovesa star). Now all we need is limit the randomness that is daemons(or just remove the re-roll mechanic from the tzetch saves, just make it +1 like it used to be and give it a cap). Even knights are not that bad(outside the ad lance).

I think the game in all aspects will benefit from a new eldar book(assuming they keep on the same trend that that started with most books since tau and eldar).

They just have to turn Wave Serpents into normal assault transports with super weapon powers.

 Shandara wrote:
They just have to turn Wave Serpents into normal assault transports with super weapon powers.

I agree, leave them as in but make them assault vehicles, maybe add an extra 5 pts

jesus christ GW cannot win man. 4 years ago people wouldn't stop with how their codex never got updated, the rules are out of date, etc etc... now GW kicks it up to 11 with releases and people are complaining or predicting doom and gloom because they cant keep up with the game... its ridiculous.

Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

So does this mean we're going to have 'Craftworld Tactics' with the exception of the special snowflake craftworld of Iyanden

Looks distinctly possible, and the Iyanden supplement disappeared with the old book, so they're quite possibly in there too.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks the game has seen a pretty big boost in quality with 7th, especially concerning codex balance. So to me they are getting better.

Have to agree 7th is far better than 5th or 6th much more entertaining.

As for the codex release can see it being small rule changes that will add up to something really good but different to how eldar are played now. And with the all important detachments and cards to bring them up to 7th edition codex and also maybe move the story along a bit since harlequins have the master plan to kill slannesh and save the eldar race by wakening the eldar god of death. In other words eldar are coming out swinging all or nothing no more just for survival but because they have a beef.

I'll add to the chorus, since I'm loving 7th edition.

I even enjoy the codex a month thing they have going.

Well, enjoying Randomhammer is people's right I guess.

I'm enjoying stepping back and playing other games, where I kick myself for making the wrong choices if I lose, not lamenting I didn't roll enough 6s.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

What?? This may be my opinion and I may be alone on this but, 7th edition is by far the most fun I've had playing since the end of 4th. Both from a competitive and casual standpoint. I don't want to go off topic for too long, but the tourney scene is pretty diverse, they have taken steps to mitigate the spam and death stars, even if it was accidentally.

Casually I am seeing more and more of the people that hadn't played in a while come back to try out new things, as well as newer players picking up the box deals which are further discounted by 3rd party sellers. Thus letting them start out relatively cheap.

To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

And bringing balance to a codex that definitely needs it, IS doing ''feth all'' about the quality... so you literally just countered yourself in your own argument...

you can call it random but if the same person wins adepticon 3 years in a row with 3 very different lists is demonstrable proof the 40k at higher levels is a skill based game.

I bought 4 codexes for my armies during 6th edition and now that I'm supposed to buy at least three more $50+ books in the coming months according to the rumors. No, I'm not a fan either of the force fed apoc into 1500pts edition nor am I a fan of the 300%-500% increase year over year in codex costs per army. I'm likely not the only one considering that sales and profits are down year over year for several years now according to GW's own reports. The cash cow herd is thinning. Factoring in the cost of the hardback rules for 3rd edition, that's over $200 worth of books that is being made obsolete in HALF the previous product life cycle both for the industry and for this company in particular and that is just what is rumored for the coming 6 months.

 Cheebs wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

What?? This may be my opinion and I may be alone on this but, 7th edition is by far the most fun I've had playing since the end of 4th. Both from a competitive and casual standpoint. I don't want to go off topic for too long, but the tourney scene is pretty diverse, they have taken steps to mitigate the spam and death stars, even if it was accidentally.

Casually I am seeing more and more of the people that hadn't played in a while come back to try out new things, as well as newer players picking up the box deals which are further discounted by 3rd party sellers. Thus letting them start out relatively cheap.

To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

And bringing balance to a codex that definitely needs it, IS doing ''feth all'' about the quality... so you literally just countered yourself in your own argument...

We will see about balance. I haven't played much lately, but the few games I have played were very one sided, with uber netlists and the overpowered models winning the game. Though that was admittedly against 6th edition codeciis.

Let us not turn a thread about Eldar into a discussion about whose opinion is most right.

I dont expect Wave Serpents to survive intact just like MSS got nerfed

But with Necrons, other buffs possibly might make them better overall

 Cheebs wrote:
To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

I'm glad you only apparently play one army and don't buy the rules either. If you do buy the rules and/or play more than one army, it is just $50-60 every 2 years. With this new scheme of more expensive hardback books along with shortened life cycle, they're tripling or more the year to year cost of just keeping current with the rules (and quintupling it if you bought your books early in 4th/5th with the previous life cycle). That isn't inflation or game balancing but pure greed. If they were interested in game balance, they'd re-evaluate the points of trouble units on a yearly basis and come out with much more useful and current FAQ/errata.

 Cheebs wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

What?? This may be my opinion and I may be alone on this but, 7th edition is by far the most fun I've had playing since the end of 4th. Both from a competitive and casual standpoint. I don't want to go off topic for too long, but the tourney scene is pretty diverse, they have taken steps to mitigate the spam and death stars, even if it was accidentally.

Casually I am seeing more and more of the people that hadn't played in a while come back to try out new things, as well as newer players picking up the box deals which are further discounted by 3rd party sellers. Thus letting them start out relatively cheap.

To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

And bringing balance to a codex that definitely needs it, IS doing ''feth all'' about the quality... so you literally just countered yourself in your own argument...

I'm with you. I think 7th is better than 6th in pretty much every meaningful way, and other than Decurion, there's nothing that's come out in a book since 7th that's felt lopsided. Even so, Wraiths aren't (nearly) as bad as GK Psychic in previous editions or WS Spam. Compared to 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd -- it's just a better game, IMO.

I get that for a lot of people, 40k is too expensive, and fair enough; there are a lot of cheaper ways to entertain yourself. I also get that some people feel that there are too many models, or they don't enjoy spending hundreds of hours assembling and painting 150 game pieces, and can't imagine buying gaming pieces regularly to add to their collection/army. That just means 40k isn't for them.

However, I'm pretty happy with the game, I look forward to pretty much every codex release, and I like that there are new models that I'll enjoy every month, if not most weeks. I have friends who really like 40k, there are more people that seem pretty decent who approach me at local stores to join their play groups than I could possibly have time for, and my favorite couple of stores don't seem like they're having trouble staying in business. So... all is well for me.

Also, I think the models are getting better and better, and frankly, the cost per model from GW is relatively good, compared to other companies with an aesthetic that I like. I don't really care that it takes 100 to 200 models an army; in fact, I prefer it, because that's 1000 to 2000 hours of entertainment in getting the army ready. If the game had only 10 or 20 models, I'd only have 100 to 200 hours of entertainment preparing my army; and if they're monopose models, what do I do after that?

Where 40k really falls short is where there is not a meeting of the minds of players: when the opponents want different things out of the game, it ends up not really being fun for either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Every codex is NOT printed every 2 years. List them out; it simply isn't so. Eldar are the first one this has ever happened to. Some major factions like Necron and Orks didn't even get a 6e codex; the average is more like 4 years.

Eldar - 2013, 2015 (2 years)
Grey Knights - 2011, 2014 (3 years)
Blood Angels - 2010, 2014 (4 years)
Dark Eldar - 2010, 2014 (4 years)
Necron - 2011, 2015 (4 years)
Tyranids - 2010, 2014 (4 years)
Imperial Guard - 2009, 2014 (5 years)
Space Wolves - 2009, 2014 (5 years)
Orks - 2008, 2014 (6 years)
Tau - 2013 -- ? (will be 2+ years)
Space Marines - 2008, 2013, -- ? (will be 2+ years)
Chaos Space Marines, Demons, 2012 -- ? (will be 3+ years)
Dark Angels will be at least 2 years (2013), Sisters, Inquisition, who knows when they will get love.

The vast majority of GK, BA, Tyranid, Ork, Space Wolves, DA, Necron, IG, etc. players were eagerly awaiting their new codex.

Some Eldar players now are just deathly afraid of a nerf to their precious Wave Serpents.

No one is saying every codex has been redone every 2 years in the past but rather that this is now a pattern with GW to redo rules every 2-3 years for the forseeable future from now on. Eldar is the first codex but the second rulebook. We have rumors that another three are on the way (Tau, DA, and SM).

 warboss wrote:
No one is saying every codex has been redone every 2 years in the past but rather that this is now a pattern with GW to redo rules every 2-3 years for the forseeable future from now on. Eldar is the first codex but the second rulebook. We have rumors that another three are on the way (Tau, DA, and SM).

6e to 7e rulebook and ONE codex (out of that huge list that I just wrote out, which most codices have been upgraded to 7e) doesn't really make "a pattern". Next year, if there is a new Dark Eldar, Grey Knight, Blood Angels, Orks, and Space Wolves codex, I will eat my words.

Also, to me, 3 years is a big difference from 2 years. 2 years is a bit quick; 4 years (look at Blood Angels, for example) feels like forever.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

Prices are actually staying stable, even going in a sane direction for once. Skitarii troops- cheaper than scions or tactical marines. Skitarii codex- smaller, and actually priced to match. Ruststalkers- priced cheaper than terminators.
New Eldar- codex costs more, but is apparently SM codex sized, and the same price (no increase). Bikes at $42 or so matches all the other 3 bike boxes.
Updating Eldar DOES make a major shift in the top end of the meta, and likely will improve the game.

From the releases and rumors, it looks like Eldar will get a book, a 3 bike box of windriders/shining spears with parts for a warlock, a foot autarch clampack, and a farseer on bike clampack. Then the old Autarch on bike finecast is repackaged in direct as a "Classic" model just like the old shadowseer and death jester were for harlequins, and the old jetbikes and shining spear upgrades will be packed together in a "classing shining spears" to get rid of inventory and let people with the old models bulk up their units without having to mix in the new style.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

If this is your opinion.. why are you even here? I mean, jeez, it sounds like you gave up on the game a long time ago.

Honestly though, I think GW is doing it right. I think Eldar players, when they see the new book (rumored to be 168 pages long), they're going to HAPPILY chuck the old rulebook and pick up the new one.

I don't even play Eldar and I'm really looking forward to seeing that new plastic Autarch. I've always loved the lore and look of the Autarchs.

 warboss wrote:
No one is saying every codex has been redone every 2 years in the past but rather that this is now a pattern with GW to redo rules every 2-3 years for the forseeable future from now on. Eldar is the first codex but the second rulebook. We have rumors that another three are on the way (Tau, DA, and SM).

GW's only pattern is their lack of pattern. They change horses mid-race so often that by the time the race is run they've been on every single one!

drbored wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

If this is your opinion.. why are you even here? I mean, jeez, it sounds like you gave up on the game a long time ago.

Ok, well if you say it, it must be so!

Right?




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 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

Prices are actually staying stable, even going in a sane direction for once. Skitarii troops- cheaper than scions or tactical marines. Skitarii codex- smaller, and actually priced to match. Ruststalkers- priced cheaper than terminators.
New Eldar- codex costs more, but is apparently SM codex sized, and the same price (no increase). Bikes at $42 or so matches all the other 3 bike boxes.
Updating Eldar DOES make a major shift in the top end of the meta, and likely will improve the game.

You're looking in a bit narrow of a timeframe.

Compare 5th to 7th rulebook prices, or the sudden spike with the switch to HB Codexes. Recent stabilising is possibly a symptom they realised they were pushing their upper price band to its limits and made the decision to scale back to try and recover some of the lost revenue.

@Azrael - you're right that the price of books jumped a lot when they went hardcover. But keep on mind, the price of ALL books have shot up dramatically.

I certainly believe GW saw hardcover as a means of maximizing revenue (by justifying a pricier product with no alternative). I also don't disagree with GW stabilizing prices because they think they can't raise them any more without losing more than they gain.

Where we differ is that I don't really have a problem with any of that. It's GW's job to figure out how much people will pay for a book just like it's Cineplex Odeon's job to figure out how much people are willing to pay for a movie ticket. Profit maximization is their goal, not to make things more affordable for us -- though often, those might intersect (at the right price it encourages more gamers, thus also more profits).

I guess I just have no expectation that GW price their products any differently than Nestle or Apple or Kraft would, none of whom really care about affordability other than as a factor of profit.

GW has cranked their prices since they told themselves what they make are "collectibles" despite having practically no resale value.

And we all know eldar are getting smashed by a nerf hammer, if the army is usable I'd be surprised. My wraithguard army is waiting to see if its taking a trip to Ebay

Right now all we have is the Wave Serpent. I'd love to get a fully useable dex, but honestly I see Bikes becoming the new wave serpent while the other stuff falls to GW's rules incompetence.

 Ravenous D wrote:
GW has cranked their prices since they told themselves what they make are "collectibles" despite having practically no resale value.

And we all know eldar are getting smashed by a nerf hammer, if the army is usable I'd be surprised. My wraithguard army is waiting to see if its taking a trip to Ebay

The resale value of GW toy soldiers is actually silly high. On EBay, stuff sells for nearly as much as discounted new. And, you can actually break them up and sell them for more. Imagine Transformers, Voltron, Robotech, etc., which really have no resale value.

By the way: Necron were nerfed all to hell right?

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Right now all we have is the Wave Serpent. I'd love to get a fully useable dex, but honestly I see Bikes becoming the new wave serpent while the other stuff falls to GW's rules incompetence.

That is nonsense. We have a huge selection of viable units, no one uses them because the serpents are the most"broken thing ever"

The only reason eldar aren't at the top any more is people at that high of a level figured out how to beat the spam. Period. What the serpents do most effectively is kill eldar style units. High toughness, low wound, and low toughness/av relying on cover to survive. When someone brings something besides serpent spam and wk's, they run into 20 or so that did, and it happens to be their hard counter. When we stop relying on a lame crutch ability, and start relying on the things eldar bring to the table (dedicated aspects and fast maneuverable support) you will see an uptick in diversity in the entire meta, as well as significant diversity in eldar lists themselves.

The death of the 60" shield equals the life of almost every light vehicle and light to medium infantry model in the game. My $.02

 Talys wrote:

By the way: Necron were nerfed all to hell right?

Necrons were in fact, buffed. One completely broken thing was changed (MSS) and everything got better.

I just feel that everything else was so bad that without the WS shining like the sun in a dark room Eldar are gonna end up so nerfed that they are borderline unplayable. I mean I get that they're a finesse army, but dang I'd like to be able to not rely on WS to actually win.

But as a Guy who enjoyed the days of Footdar being viable in 4th I'm probably S.O.L. on that front.

There really isn't an army that's been 'nerfed' since 7th edition kicked off. People like to stick with the standard GW tropes though.

So this really isn't a rumor thread any longer is it?

stormboy wrote:
So this really isn't a rumor thread any longer is it?

It never was.

nae word on what's the deal with the aspects yet?

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Talys wrote:

By the way: Necron were nerfed all to hell right?

Necrons were in fact, buffed. One completely broken thing was changed (MSS) and everything got better.

That was dripping with sarcasm, bud in reference to eldar surely being nerfed to hell.


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 plastictrees wrote:
There really isn't an army that's been 'nerfed' since 7th edition kicked off. People like to stick with the standard GW tropes though.

Dark Eldar are weaker, in my opinion. And what happened to all their hoes :X Grey Knights, due to changes in psychic. Necron, SW, BA, Tyranids, Orks are not worse off.

In all cases, models have gotten better

 DarknessEternal wrote:

stormboy wrote:
So this really isn't a rumor thread any longer is it?

It never was.

Well, except for the all the rumours, including the new ones about releases that just came out.

warboss wrote:At $58, my hopes for this craftworld codex to NOT be a replacement for the current LESS THAN TWO fething YEARS SINCE FIRST RELEASE codex are pretty much dashed. I gave them a second chance by picking up the rehashed after 2 years 7th edition rulebook but I'm not going to support a two year lifecycle on rulebooks as a general rule.

Orrus wrote:Surely 'Codex: Craftworlds' is not a replacement for Codex: Eldar

I still think it's a supplement for the remaining craftworlds, after Iyanden.

Am I just believing what I want to believe or is anyone else thinking the same?

It is a direct replacement, PLUS rules for additional Craftworlds.

Accolade wrote:

 Orrus wrote:
Surely 'Codex: Craftworlds' is not a replacement for Codex: Eldar

I still think it's a supplement for the remaining craftworlds, after Iyanden.

Am I just believing what I want to believe or is anyone else thinking the same?

Even then, how is $58?? Am I missing some special features or are we going to SM price for books now.

Because it's 160 pages.

People need to stop drawing ridiculous conclusions. This doesn't mean every book is suddenly going to be on a 2 year cycle. We saw with Necrons, Khorne Demonkin, and Skitarii that the new format not only has MUCH better internal balance than the previous iterations, but adds a truckload of variety in the form of detachments, formations, and tables; the bog standard FO is all but dead, and so is spam-hammer by extension. (Not to mention the bonus of cleaner rules wording in the newer books. I mean, seriously - look at Necrons, and then read Space Marines: the latter reads like it was written by an 8 year old in comparison.)

I am going to bet a house that this is how all the books will look and/or be refreshed so everyone is on the same playing field. It doesn't mean 18-24 months after that we see a new Codex: Eldar.

 brassangel wrote:

Accolade wrote:

 Orrus wrote:
Surely 'Codex: Craftworlds' is not a replacement for Codex: Eldar

I still think it's a supplement for the remaining craftworlds, after Iyanden.

Am I just believing what I want to believe or is anyone else thinking the same?

Even then, how is $58?? Am I missing some special features or are we going to SM price for books now.

Because it's 160 pages.

People need to stop drawing ridiculous conclusions. This doesn't mean every book is suddenly going to be on a 2 year cycle. We saw with Necrons, Khorne Demonkin, and Skitarii that the new format not only has MUCH better internal balance than the previous iterations, but adds a truckload of variety in the form of detachments, formations, and tables; the bog standard FO is all but dead, and so is spam-hammer by extension. (Not to mention the bonus of cleaner rules wording in the newer books. I mean, seriously - look at Necrons, and then read Space Marines: the latter reads like it was written by an 8 year old in comparison.)

I am going to bet a house that this is how all the books will look and/or be refreshed so everyone is on the same playing field. It doesn't mean 18-24 months after that we see a new Codex: Eldar.

I did not say every codex was going to start getting a release every two years, I said the popular books would (and I still believe the core rulebook will too).

Here's the release years for the Eldar Codexes:

1994
1999
2006
2013
2015

So we have roughly 5-6 years between each of them, except now we only got 2?? I don't know why people can't understand that that is going too far. People didn't like that armies didn't get updated because often their chances to update were squandered on re-releasing armies that have had a number of go-throughs (i.e. Space Marines). There simply isn't that much that truly warrants a release of a book every two years, and GW's completely bipolar manner of shifting the rules/army style every few months (from formations to army-wide formations to CADs with no HQs to etc etc etc) guarantees that there isn't some point that things will ever match up.

This pattern will continue on ad nauseam, and people will keep justifying it, saying "oh well they just have to do these few armies to get everything to the same page and then expand the game from that point on with other factions." After all, that's what they did with 6th edition supplements, right? The rumors are going for many armies to follow the path of the Eldar- the path of the new codex in a similar time-frame. If we make it till September with the Space Marines codexes, we will have *just* made it into two years for that particular book.

I think this cycle will continue as it always has, just at this increased speed. There is no onus on GW to get everything up to some sort of balanced out point, that takes away the constant flux and the desire for codexes to keep up with the current trend.

The main thing that matters is you (the customer) keeps buying. The book cycles will ensure that.

Why was Skittari leaked so fast compared to this? Baaaah!

Two books(Harlequin and now Skitarii) without HQs now becomes part of a "completely bipolar manner of shifting the rules/army style every few months"?

Hell, Codex: Skitarii and Codex: Harlequin are at least consistent with each other and actually fit fairly well in with what we saw with the Ork, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Khorne Daemonkin, and Necron books. Not to mention the supplement books for Orks, Wolves, and Dark Eldar.

But really, compare those releases to Astra Militarum or Tempestus. The parent codex(Astra Militarum) was done in what can be referred to as "Last Edition Style" while Tempestus was done in the same vein as what we have seen with every major book release since AM.

So really this talk about "GW's completely bipolar manner of shifting the rules/army style every few months" strikes me as a bit misleading and a bit misguided.

With that said, if we're going to see an entirely new book I don't expect to see huge sweeping changes. I think the whole point of this book is to clean out what they consider to be "Last Edition clutter" and to remove some of the more problematic options.

I still don't see why the bellyaching. This is the ONLY codex that will have had a 2 year cycle in the history of GW, and codex: eldar WAS written for 6e.

The only other codices that even have a possibility of a 2 year cycle are space marines, and Tau.

The funny part to me is people complaining about X additional dollars every two years.

For the number of hours I spend on this hobby, going to events, etc if it would increase my enjoyment by even 1% it would be money well spent.

Eldar at present reduce the enjoyment for a significant portion of the population right now. I am glad they are getting one sooner rather than having to deal with it for even another month. I own and play eldar, just bought the e-book a few months ago and I aint even mad.

Timelines/release dates look normal if you accept that 6th edition was
a mistake, and they need to work some damage control around it.
We will hopefully be back on track soon.
And lets face it, GW has been doing alot of right decisions since 6th was dropped.

 Talys wrote:
I still don't see why the bellyaching. This is the ONLY codex that will have had a 2 year cycle in the history of GW, and codex: eldar WAS written for 6e.

The only other codices that even have a possibility of a 2 year cycle are space marines, and Tau.

Your ignorance of people's complaints is, at this point, a conscious choice. You've been presented with exactly why but continue to misconstrue the facts despite that. It is more correct to say that this is THE FIRST codex that will have a 2 year life cycle which follows the FIRST edition to have only a 2 year life cycle which will be followed by (according to the rumors) THREE MORE SUCCESSIVE army revamps with codex books to be invalidated after a 2 year life cycle. What are the next rumored armies getting revamps? Space Marine, Tau, and Dark Angels. Guess what edition all three of the next three armies to get redone came out? Is that really that hard to understand? You may be fine with rebuying your books that are 50% more expensive than they used to be at a pace that is twice as fast but I'm not. It's not a question of affording it but rather the underlying principle. If GW finds this works this thanks to folks like yourself, you'll be defending yearly iterations of 40k ala video game franchises like Call of Duty considering GW is pretty much following video gamings footsteps as a guideline. Again, you may be fine with paying 50% more for something half as useful but just don't pretend that there isn't a valid reason for complaints with that change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fayric wrote:
Timelines/release dates look normal if you accept that 6th edition was
a mistake, and they need to work some damage control around it.
We will hopefully be back on track soon.
And lets face it, GW has been doing alot of right decisions since 6th was dropped.

GW has my address and can send me the refund check for THEIR mistake (not mine) in coming out with an edition of rules so apparently faulty that it needs to be replaced completely in half the normal time. Problem solved!

 warboss wrote:
It is more correct to say that this is THE FIRST codex that will have a 2 year life cycle which follows the FIRST edition to have only a 2 year life cycle which will be followed by (according to the rumors) THREE MORE SUCCESSIVE army revamps with codex books to be invalidated after a 2 year life cycle.

Great. Then you're "more correct". Revel in your victory.

Doesn't change the fact that expecting a pattern of behaviour other than a lack of a pattern is folly when it comes to GW.

Eldar have THREE things that piss people off: Wave Serpents, Jetbikes, and possibly Wraithlords. Mostly the first. So instead of releasing a version 1.1 FAQ that says page x - serpent shield range is 6", not 60", they make you pay $58 for a new book instead.

Every codex has a handful of units that people whine about. Chaos = ML3 DPs with spell familiars, Nids = tl-devourer w. brainleech worms Flyrants, Tau = IA + EWO Riptides, Crons = Wraiths & Flayed Ones & Croissants, Daemons = summoning, Guard = Paskisher and friends, BA = armywide furious charge.
We dont need a new codex to fix this.

 Fayric wrote:
Timelines/release dates look normal if you accept that 6th edition was
a mistake, and they need to work some damage control around it.

6th edition hasn't been fixed. For everything GW fixed with 7th, there's new things they broke (Unbound, Malefic daemonology, invisibility...) Mostly GW just stepped up the codex releasing schedule and introduced formations and campaign books so now there's just so much stuff in the meta that there's an answer for most everything.


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 Accolade wrote:
This pattern will continue on ad nauseam, and people will keep justifying it, saying "oh well they just have to do these few armies to get everything to the same page and then expand the game from that point on with other factions."

Actually I think February 2015 is a good place for a gaming group to stop updating their GW stuff...with codex Necrons all armies have gotten a hardback (or online equivalent) release, now the only difference is 6th ed artwork-y + foc swapping codexes vs 7th ed miniatures-pictures and formations codexes.

I just look forward to a new Eldar Codex that fixes Wave Serpents, makes playing eldar infantry fun and i also look forward to new Jetbike models.

And in regard to the "new codex frenzy": nowadays i buy some, i download the rest. Having most armies i have to choose between buying models and books and i choose models.

There goes my hopes for a tall avatar, less push over Phoenix lords and plastic aspect warriors. that's what I get for hoping eh?

 warboss wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I still don't see why the bellyaching. This is the ONLY codex that will have had a 2 year cycle in the history of GW, and codex: eldar WAS written for 6e.

The only other codices that even have a possibility of a 2 year cycle are space marines, and Tau.

Your ignorance of people's complaints is, at this point, a conscious choice. You've been presented with exactly why but continue to misconstrue the facts despite that. It is more correct to say that this is THE FIRST codex that will have a 2 year life cycle which follows the FIRST edition to have only a 2 year life cycle which will be followed by (according to the rumors) THREE MORE SUCCESSIVE army revamps with codex books to be invalidated after a 2 year life cycle.

Actually, you're the ignorant one that doesn't read English very well. I wrote that the Eldar Codex is the ONLY codex that will have had a 2 year cycle. That's true. I also wrote that there are no other codices that can have a 2 year cycle at the moment other than SM and Tau, and that's also true. So, you should acknowledge that.

Yes, Tau and SM may get a 2 year cycle this year. In that case there will be THREE (out of how many?) that are updated to 7th edition. Want to talk about firsts? It will be the FIRST time that every codex for a major faction matches the game edition. Ever. Well, at least if they do Sisters before 8th. All praise the Omnissiah.

I perfectly understand what people's complaints are; I just think they're silly and unreasonable. $60 for a 168 page book for a faction that you play -- every 2-4 years? That's AWESOME. Yes, it's more expensive; it's also going to have way, way more content. It's not more expensive that Space Marines was 2+ years ago. Not only that, people actively complain about Tau and Eldar being too powerful. If you really want to stay stuck in the past, play with the old codex. If your friends all want to go to the new codex, and you don't? Well, then, you're the one being unreasonable. If your buddies prefer 5e? All the power to you.

Did GW release any of the other codices in 2 year cycles? No. They were all 3-5 year cycles.

 warboss wrote:

What are the next rumored armies getting revamps? Space Marine, Tau, and Dark Angels. Guess what edition all three of the next three armies to get redone came out? Is that really that hard to understand? You may be fine with rebuying your books that are 50% more expensive than they used to be at a pace that is twice as fast but I'm not. It's not a question of affording it but rather the underlying principle. If GW finds this works this thanks to folks like yourself, you'll be defending yearly iterations of 40k ala video game franchises like Call of Duty considering GW is pretty much following video gamings footsteps as a guideline. Again, you may be fine with paying 50% more for something half as useful but just don't pretend that there isn't a valid reason for complaints with that change.

The marginal cost of the books to the hobby and game is miniscule. $60 -- out of an hobby that over 2 years probably costs $1,000+. If that makes the game more enjoyable, or better, what a great investment for the next 2-5 years. If it doesn't make the game more enjoyable -- don't buy it. If the game is too expensive to keep up with -- play something else. But to complain about a book that is going from 104 pages to 168 pages as just a cash grab is unreasonable. Dare I say, ignorant.

By the way, you might not like video game franchises like CoD deriving revenue from annual releases and DLCs. You might not like the fact that IMAX movie tickets now cost double the price of regular movie tickets of yesteryear. You might not like that there's a new iPhone every year that's $700.

But guess what? That's the way the world is. Live with it, live in it, enjoy it... Or don't!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fayric wrote:Timelines/release dates look normal if you accept that 6th edition was
a mistake, and they need to work some damage control around it.
We will hopefully be back on track soon.
And lets face it, GW has been doing alot of right decisions since 6th was dropped.

I agree with this sentiment completely! I don't know anyone that loved 6e or still plays 6e. As I mentioned above, I **LOVE** that all the codices will soon be 7e. It couldn't come soon enough. Sisters too please. Pretty please.

Some people will never be happy with what GW does now, short of dropping the price of the game to be $150 for a 75 model army and all the rules and templates that you never have to upgrade. Personally, I think 7e is great, and if they add skirmish rules (a la WHFB rumors), that will be fantastic.

Leth wrote:The funny part to me is people complaining about X additional dollars every two years.

For the number of hours I spend on this hobby, going to events, etc if it would increase my enjoyment by even 1% it would be money well spent.

Eldar at present reduce the enjoyment for a significant portion of the population right now. I am glad they are getting one sooner rather than having to deal with it for even another month. I own and play eldar, just bought the e-book a few months ago and I aint even mad.

Well, the crazy thing is, I don't know anyone who plays 40k regularly for 2+ years, who has a reasonably painted, army that's generally playable, who hasn't spent a thousand bucks between everything in the game (models, tools, paint, books, etc.). I mean, not even one. $60 is like... 0.6% of the investment cost. In mean, cripes.

Also, it is cheaper than 4 IMAX tickets to the next Avengers movie.

Shuuuuuush with your complaiiining already. Someone tell me ablut the nerf of wraithknights pls!

the complains about the codexe being updated every two years are especially laughable considering that

1- So far, eldar are the only one who've been updated in a 2 year span (using rumoured release as a proof of this being a trend is absurd)

2- It's possible to get the codex at a very "reasonable" price, without even leaving your house.

whats with all the Talys bashing?? I think some of you need to cool it off in this thread, were not here to throw hate around.

Talys has raised logical and sound arguments, whereas quite a few of you are jumping to conclusions.
Just because some numbers go;
6, 7, 6, 5, 2

doesn't mean that the next number is now 2 You can't just start predicting patterns based upon a few outlying points of data. Yes the next few dexes correlate, but they are also the major dexes that are not 7ed. I mean going off your logic;
5, 2, 1, 0.5, 0.25

OMG I've just predicted that in a couple years time at the rate GW is accelerating its ability to produce codexes that we are going to be seeing a re-vamp of every codex every 3 months!!
I mean im pretty sure you can all agree that is absurd right?? But it uses the same logic you are defending your points with. Please can we move away from our scryer's orbs and get back to the thread at hand
OMG GW ARE GOING TO RUIN ELDARARARSR

Heres to hoping aspects get some nice loving!

I think it's a bit strange that we haven't seen any leaked pics or anything.

I mean, with the Skitarii release we got leaks left and right, weeks before they were even announced, but with this Eldar release? Nothing. I wonder why that is.

On the topic of the actual release though, if there is different rules for different Craftworlds, I'm hoping for a Jetbike focused one. Would be really fun fielding a battle-forged jetbike-only army.

 alleus wrote:

On the topic of the actual release though, if there is different rules for different Craftworlds, I'm hoping for a Jetbike focused one. Would be really fun fielding a battle-forged jetbike-only army.

I would just hope it isn't the FOTM seems to be bikes are strong in so many lists these days. But if every craftworld get a little focus i'll be happy

Given the web bundles we have seen, that it is called craftworld eldar, is the size of the marine book, and the direction that things have been going, it is a pretty safe bet that there will be individual craft world rules and/or formations

Since over a year i expect as many leaks as GW wants to be leaked. There is no uncontrolled leakage anymore.

So i expect the first pics after all Skitarii models are out.
You cannot have 2 simultaneous codexes competing with each other.

If it were a WHFB army, there would be leaks, but in this case i expect the first pics in a week or so.

 alleus wrote:
I think it's a bit strange that we haven't seen any leaked pics or anything.

I mean, with the Skitarii release we got leaks left and right, weeks before they were even announced, but with this Eldar release? Nothing. I wonder why that is.

Well, we've known for a while that the Eldar were coming; this thread was started almost a month ago, after all. But I expect pics from the WD to show up somewhere today, tomorrow at the latest.

On the topic of the actual release though, if there is different rules for different Craftworlds, I'm hoping for a Jetbike focused one. Would be really fun fielding a battle-forged jetbike-only army.

If any Craftworld would get a focus on jetbikes, it'd be Saim-Hann. And you can already field a legal battleforged jetbike-only army with the current codex, of course.

 Talys wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Talys wrote:

By the way: Necron were nerfed all to hell right?

Necrons were in fact, buffed. One completely broken thing was changed (MSS) and everything got better.

That was dripping with sarcasm, bud in reference to eldar surely being nerfed to hell.

Ah. I see that now. Sarcasm doesn't travel well on the internets =\

I am hoping for a fun jetbike list.

I collected Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequin jetbikes from all of GW history up to the recent new Harlequin jetbikes.
And i just wanted to start this project as these "new Eldar Codex" rumours showed up. So i put in on hold again.

Anyway, i look forward to the codex.
Allthough i will probably not spent money on it, but i will spent money on any new good Eldar models.

On the topic of the actual release though, if there is different rules for different Craftworlds, I'm hoping for a Jetbike focused one. Would be really fun fielding a battle-forged jetbike-only army.
If any Craftworld would get a focus on jetbikes, it'd be Saim-Hann. And you can already field a legal battleforged jetbike-only army with the current codex, of course.

Oh. there is? I don't play Eldar so I don't really know what the different units are in the FOC. I would assume that Jetbikes are fast attack though, but something makes them troops maybe? Anyway, would be fun especially with the new models coming out. I hope they are similar to that prototype we saw a while ago, that was a really nice model :-)

Windrider Jetbike Squads are currently Troops. Shining Spears and Vypers are Fast Attack.

Can this be again a rumors thread.. Please I don't want to keep reading complains about eldar and what needs fixing or not. When and if you have a rumor please share it.. Otherwise go complain in another thread.

There is still the ongoing debate on the price, size, and contents of this week's Eldar codex release. Its being reported now though, that the book it self is really 160pgs long. While this doesnt give us a lot of details to go on, at least we can quell the whispers of a 200pg book.


Here is the latest rumors on Codex: Craftworlds

via Morachi on Warseer
I saw the WD with my own eyes, couldn't take a photo sorry guys... the Ltd Ed set is gorgeous and it is indeed a 160 page book.

I predict my wraithguard army will be shelved, no 7th book has slot moving and since the Decurion business there has been no special detachments to accommodate all elite armies, instead we will get the mandatory Autarch and 3 other bad unit tax before you can take a wraithguard formation with spiritseer and wraithlord tax.

Serpent shield and laser lock are probably gone, Wraithcannons will probably be s8 cause they are just sooooo good, Jetbikes will be 4+ armour and wraithknights will have a points increase.

If you think nerfing eldar changes anything then you're wrong, they will just jump ship to Necrons, daemons or tau.

 Ravenous D wrote:
I predict my wraithguard army will be shelved, no 7th book has slot moving and since the Decurion business there has been no special detachments to accommodate all elite armies, instead we will get the mandatory Autarch and 3 other bad unit tax before you can take a wraithguard formation with spiritseer and wraithlord tax.

Serpent shield and laser lock are probably gone, Wraithcannons will probably be s8 cause they are just sooooo good, Jetbikes will be 4+ armour and wraithknights will have a points increase.

If you think nerfing eldar changes anything then you're wrong, they will just jump ship to Necrons, daemons or tau.

And in my case, see this coming since 6 months ago and jump ship to both Necrons AND Tau.

 Capamaru wrote:
Can this be again a rumors thread.. Please I don't want to keep reading complains about eldar and what needs fixing or not. When and if you have a rumor please share it.. Otherwise go complain in another thread.

Have an exalt sir

 Ravenous D wrote:
I predict my wraithguard army will be shelved, no 7th book has slot moving and since the Decurion business there has been no special detachments to accommodate all elite armies, instead we will get the mandatory Autarch and 3 other bad unit tax before you can take a wraithguard formation with spiritseer and wraithlord tax.

Serpent shield and laser lock are probably gone, Wraithcannons will probably be s8 cause they are just sooooo good, Jetbikes will be 4+ armour and wraithknights will have a points increase.

If you think nerfing eldar changes anything then you're wrong, they will just jump ship to Necrons, daemons or tau.

If they remove the swap to troops rule, I suspect it will be replaced by a formation. Even if it’s part of a larger one, like the decurion. I’d guess something like 1 spiritseer, 2+ wraithguard/blades, maybe some big guys, or they might be their own thing. With the way armies are put together these days, I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a way to do the old spirit host.

It will also be interesting to see if bikes stay troops, or if we’ll need to run a special saim-hann formation if we don’t want blocks of guardians.

 alleus wrote:
I think it's a bit strange that we haven't seen any leaked pics or anything.

I mean, with the Skitarii release we got leaks left and right, weeks before they were even announced, but with this Eldar release? Nothing. I wonder why that is.

On the topic of the actual release though, if there is different rules for different Craftworlds, I'm hoping for a Jetbike focused one. Would be really fun fielding a battle-forged jetbike-only army.

Wensday is when North America gets their WDs in along with the rest of the shipment, we should start seeing pictures tonight or tomorrow


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I predict my wraithguard army will be shelved, no 7th book has slot moving and since the Decurion business there has been no special detachments to accommodate all elite armies, instead we will get the mandatory Autarch and 3 other bad unit tax before you can take a wraithguard formation with spiritseer and wraithlord tax.

Serpent shield and laser lock are probably gone, Wraithcannons will probably be s8 cause they are just sooooo good, Jetbikes will be 4+ armour and wraithknights will have a points increase.

If you think nerfing eldar changes anything then you're wrong, they will just jump ship to Necrons, daemons or tau.

If they remove the swap to troops rule, I suspect it will be replaced by a formation. Even if it’s part of a larger one, like the decurion. I’d guess something like 1 spiritseer, 2+ wraithguard/blades, maybe some big guys, or they might be their own thing. With the way armies are put together these days, I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a way to do the old spirit host.

It will also be interesting to see if bikes stay troops, or if we’ll need to run a special saim-hann formation if we don’t want blocks of guardians.

Nah its GW, the only way they'll let me field an all wraithguard army is if I pay the gak unit taxes for the mediocre army. This is what Im expecting, if this book is actually more than the 7th nerfpocalypse I will be surprised, and hey if it does turn out to be good then even better. Set your expectations low that way you're never disappointed, other then when GW manages to blow those low expectations out of the water in a fabulous display of stupidity.

I could ilve with a Daemonkin Style Codex sort of update, but Space Marine Codex sized book would be awesome.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, enjoying Randomhammer is people's right I guess.
I'm enjoying stepping back and playing other games, where I kick myself for making the wrong choices if I lose, not lamenting I didn't roll enough 6s.

So, are you playing Chess or Mancala ? Maybe Tic Tac Toe ?
Any game with dice or cards features random as a pretty important game element.

There's a key distinction between "important" and "decisive."

If the random element is decisive, how come there are players in the tournament scene that stay in the top in almost every tournament they go to?

Mymearan wrote:
If the random element is decisive, how come there are players in the tournament scene that stay in the top in almost every tournament they go to?

Because 40K is an exercise in list building rather than playing the game, and once a certain level of error elimination has been reached in terms of gameplay (which 'serious' 40K players will have reached long ago) those who write the strongest list will prevail. Those who do well consistently are simply the players who wrote the best lists.

But, once again, not relevant to the topic of Eldar rumours, if anyone is keen to discuss it further, I'd suggest creating a separate thread in a more appropriate sub forum and if I feel I can offer anything, I'll gladly participate.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Because 40K is an exercise in list building rather than playing the game, and once a certain level of error elimination has been reached in terms of gameplay (which 'serious' 40K players will have reached long ago) those who write the strongest list will prevail. Those who do well consistently are simply the players who wrote the best lists.

But, once again, not relevant to the topic of Eldar rumours, if anyone is keen to discuss it further, I'd suggest creating a separate thread in a more appropriate sub forum and if I feel I can offer anything, I'll gladly participate.

I don't believe this is true. I optimize as much as possible, but still lose to people who don't paint, don't use the internet, and don't own rulebooks.

I don't believe this is true. I will optimize as much as possible with the rumored new Eldar Codex, but still lose to people who don't paint, don't use the internet, and don't own rulebooks, like the rumored new Eldar: Craftworlds Codex.

Edited to better remain on topic

 Azreal13 wrote:
There's a key distinction between "important" and "decisive."

Exactly, fail a 5" charge and lose the game and tell me how fun random is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:
If the random element is decisive, how come there are players in the tournament scene that stay in the top in almost every tournament they go to?

Because top tournament players take out the random elements as much as humanly possible and beat you in the movement phase and deployment, they game you to death with assured victory

 adamsouza wrote:

I don't believe this is true. I will optimize as much as possible with the rumored new Eldar Codex, but still lose to people who don't paint, don't use the internet, and don't own rulebooks, like the rumored new Eldar: Craftworlds Codex.

Edited to better remain on topic

That's beautiful. Like the new Eldar: Craftworlds Codex

Great focus on the Eldar rumours guys! Credit where credit is due, this thread is really staying on target!

I really hope that as part of this release, Duncan releases a how to paint Ulthwé tanks. I would like a tutorial on how to do the squiggly lines and make them not look like crap.

Hopefully tomorrow we get some scans, really looking forward to it.

 Gorlack wrote:
Great focus on the Eldar rumours guys! Credit where credit is due, this thread is really staying on target!

Just report it and leave the topic-focus comments to the mods. Posting a response is no different than what they are doing.

Are there any rumors at all of whether there are releases past a single week?

Gawd, I would even love new Guardians. Fire Dragons. Well... every infantry model without "Wraith".

The only rumour I can recall is that it will be "Necron style" which was a one week release IIRC.

We'll probably know soon enough, when the next WD starts leaking. The hint for the WD after that should probably give a decent clue what to expect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some actual rumours instead of senseless arguing:

Manwë from Warseer wrote:Some people on a French forum have seen the WD.

The heavy wraithcanons are now D, and the sword too. He is gargantuan (and probably LoW I think).

Jetbikes rules are the same, no changes and same slot (but new minies).

Walocks are not in the Wildriders box, but is an option in the Jetseer =D (1D6+100 of dat things for me, kthxbye).

There is a "Decurie" (don't now the name of the Necron special host in English), called Craftworld Warhosts :

1 to 3 guardians host (Wildriders, guardiens squads and the ones from Ulthwë) unlock some extra stuff for all the craftworlds. For example, 1 3 Wildriders choices unlock some stuff for Saim Hann host.

The Autarch on foot has swooping hawks wings, and is awesome.

Glad the Wraithknight is Gargantuan - makes sense. I hope it is a more restricted unit in general. Ranged Str D is quite strong. We'll see once we get some points costs.

Disappointing Jetbikes didn't get reduced to 4+ Armor.

Oh good. I woke up this morning and said 'You know what Eldar need more of? Ranged D.'


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Disappointing Jetbikes didn't get reduced to 4+ Armor.

Why would they? They've been 3+ for a loooooong time, haven't they?

To bring them in line with every other Eldar jetbike variant (Harlequins, Dark Eldar, etc).

Here's hoping that the Wraithknight is in a 1 per army kind of situation - either LoW, or similar Decurion style limitation.

rollawaythestone wrote:
To bring them in line with every other Eldar jetbike variant (Harlequins, Dark Eldar, etc).

Here's hoping that the Wraithknight is in a 1 per army kind of situation - either LoW, or similar Decurion style limitation.

Both Hars and DE have lighter base armor.

marneus41 from Warseer wrote:No pics, bu read the WD.

3 new plastic kits :

- Eldar Windriders : 3 new motojets with all the weapon choices available.

- Eldar Farseer Skyrunner : 1 eldar farseer or warlock (2 heads and 2 weapons choice).

- Eldar Autarch : no options

New codex of 160 pages with description of 11 craftworld (nothing about specific rules for them).

2 new specific psy discipline (battle runes and fate runes).

One FOC like the necron :

1-3 guardian hosts (3 types available)
0-3 Regent of the warhost (Heroes, seer council, living legends (avatar and phoenix lords))
1-12 formation for each guardian ost (outcasts, crimson death, dire avenger shrine, wraith host, aspect host, wraith-construct, engines of vaul)

Distorsion wepon = D-weapon.

CC weapon of the wraithknight is D weapon.

Agreed on the jetbikes, they absolutely should be 4+

I was hoping for a superheavy walker, but adding some strD and gargantuan monstrous creature still makes me smile

Does it mention if there is any change to the suncannon, or the possible weapon load outs? I built a custom vehicle using the WK as a base, and was wondering g if I'd have to change it...

 Ravenous D wrote:
I predict my wraithguard army will be shelved, no 7th book has slot moving and since the Decurion business there has been no special detachments to accommodate all elite armies, instead we will get the mandatory Autarch and 3 other bad unit tax before you can take a wraithguard formation with spiritseer and wraithlord tax.

Serpent shield and laser lock are probably gone, Wraithcannons will probably be s8 cause they are just sooooo good, Jetbikes will be 4+ armour and wraithknights will have a points increase.

If you think nerfing eldar changes anything then you're wrong, they will just jump ship to Necrons, daemons or tau.

I wouldn't be surprised if they set up a "decurion-style" detachement for each craftworld, or at the very least, make the required formation for the detachment a choice between formations specific to each craftworld. For example, Craftword Detachment consists of 1+ primary formations (Saim-han, Ilyandan, Ulthwe, Beil-tan, etc), plus 1+ auxillery formations that could have any number of unit groupings that would fit any craftworld. The 0-1 Command formation would be the Seer Council naturally. Could be really cool if handled right.


Edit-NM, looks like somebody posted the actual detachment structure.

 Redemption wrote:

marneus41 from Warseer wrote:No pics, bu read the WD.

3 new plastic kits :

- Eldar Windriders : 3 new motojets with all the weapon choices available.

- Eldar Farseer Skyrunner : 1 eldar farseer or warlock (2 heads and 2 weapons choice).

- Eldar Autarch : no options

New codex of 160 pages with description of 11 craftworld (nothing about specific rules for them).

2 new specific psy discipline (battle runes and fate runes).

One FOC like the necron :

1-3 guardian hosts (3 types available)
0-3 Regent of the warhost (Heroes, seer council, living legends (avatar and phoenix lords))
1-12 formation for each guardian ost (outcasts, crimson death, dire avenger shrine, wraith host, aspect host, wraith-construct, engines of vaul)

Distorsion wepon = D-weapon.

CC weapon of the wraithknight is D weapon.

Wait, distortion weapons are str D!?!? Here come the artillery!!!

Cheap Farseer on JB
3 Jetbikes
3 Jetbikes
Wraithknight

Rinse, repeat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Wait, distortion weapons are str D!?!? Here come the artillery!!!

I doubt it is all of them.

D weapon D-Scythes would be hilarious though.

Looking at other forums to check out the latest 'news' has made it apparent that no one has any new information. Or at least no one has any evidence to back up the rumours.

Each site seems to be recycling rumours from the next.
The French forum has the same images we have already seen and someone stating 'facts' with no evidence. Are we really going to believe it just because its French?

Swordwind and Spirit Host needs to run CAD, unless they are willing to run a bunch of Guardians?

Why do Guardians unlock DAs?

Also, I hope Wraith Scythes aren't SD! Aside from that, s10-> SD for non templates/blasts don't seem too horrible...

rollawaythestone wrote:
To bring them in line with every other Eldar jetbike variant (Harlequins, Dark Eldar, etc).

Actually, DE jetbikes are 5+ armor, Harlies 4+, (and Craftworlds 3+). They are in fact very different units (especially DE and CWE, with harlies being something in the middle), usage-wise, wargear-wise and weapon-wise. Even Stat-wise. There is not much reason to bring them more in line with one another!

 Redemption wrote:


One FOC like the necron :

1-3 guardian hosts (3 types available)
0-3 Regent of the warhost (Heroes, seer council, living legends (avatar and phoenix lords))
1-12 formation for each guardian ost (outcasts, crimson death, dire avenger shrine, wraith host, aspect host, wraith-construct, engines of vaul)

Distorsion wepon = D-weapon.

CC weapon of the wraithknight is D weapon.

Wait, ALL distort weapons are Destroyer now? I hope wraithguard got a hefty price hike, seeing as how they would have mass destroyer ranged and template weapons. I'm sure the WK will see a significant price hike.

 Orrus wrote:
Looking at other forums to check out the latest 'news' has made it apparent that no one has any new information. Or at least no one has any evidence to back up the rumours.

Each site seems to be recycling rumours from the next.
The French forum has the same images we have already seen and someone stating 'facts' with no evidence. Are we really going to believe it just because its French?

No we aren't just supposed to believe it. But anytime now once we see pictures, we can confirm whether the french rules leaks are true or not. If they were true, we got the jump on thinking about them and getting excited about them.

I'm hoping to get a formation that will let me take a Wraithknight on the cheap. I painted one to go alongside Unbound Harlequins before the Harlequin codex was ever even announced, but now that I have a codex, I'd like to make a Battle Forged list if I can!

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Wait, ALL distort weapons are Destroyer now? I hope wraithguard got a hefty price hike, seeing as how they would have mass destroyer ranged and template weapons. I'm sure the WK will see a significant price hike.

Remember these are leaks from the WD, not from the actual codex, which means that any rules mentioned are probably derived from WD-text, which has a small history of being both vague and sometimes inaccurate as to the rules in the actual book.

The changes to Wraithknight sound great. Ranged D weapons are forbidden at the local tournaments where I play, but I actually wanted to use the Sword + Shield variant. Now that the sword is rumoured to be Strength D... well, time to piss your pants, Imperial Knights.

 Yarium wrote:
I'm hoping to get a formation that will let me take a Wraithknight on the cheap. I painted one to go alongside Unbound Harlequins before the Harlequin codex was ever even announced, but now that I have a codex, I'd like to make a Battle Forged list if I can!

You will probably have to pay a wraithlord tax most likely to take a WK as part of a formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SarisKhan wrote:
The changes to Wraithknight sound great. Ranged D weapons are forbidden at the local tournaments where I play, but I actually wanted to use the Sword + Shield variant. Now that the sword is rumoured to be Strength D... well, time to piss your pants, Imperial Knights.

Hopefully they will price it accordingly. It would have to be more expensive than the Strength D bloodthirster at 275 points because A) it strikes at initiative, and B) its got +2 Toughness and +1 Wound.

Posted by Mr Maloke on Warseer:


Also apparently Scatter Lasers no longer twin-link.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
The changes to Wraithknight sound great. Ranged D weapons are forbidden at the local tournaments where I play, but I actually wanted to use the Sword + Shield variant. Now that the sword is rumoured to be Strength D... well, time to piss your pants, Imperial Knights.

Hopefully they will price it accordingly. It would have to be more expensive than the Strength D bloodthirster at 275 points because A) it strikes at initiative, and B) its got +2 Toughness and +1 Wound.

Plus has Stomp attacks and FNP and is essentially immune to ID.

Hey look, those folks who said new jetbikes five years ago are finally right.

The leaks, its happening

 pretre wrote:
Hey look, those folks who said new jetbikes five years ago are finally right.

Will they get a "True?"

 Azreal13 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Hey look, those folks who said new jetbikes five years ago are finally right.

Will they get a "True?"

I'll look them over when the rest of the WD leaks so I don't have to do it multiple times.

nice to see the cone shaped heads of the old jetbike kit finally going the way of the dodo. Looks like they might get some special weapons options too given that one of those models look like they have an underslung scatter laser.

Wow.

Thank God I'm broke from the Skitarii release.

Is that a scatter laser on the back jetbike??

Scatter Lasers on Jetbikes?

Yeah, the source of the images said that Jetbikes get scatterlasers now. But scatterlasers got nerfed cause they no longer get laser lock.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Yeah, the source of the images said that Jetbikes get scatterlasers now. But scatterlasers got nerfed cause they no longer get laser lock.

That's only really a nerf if it isn't included in the points

 statu wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Yeah, the source of the images said that Jetbikes get scatterlasers now. But scatterlasers got nerfed cause they no longer get laser lock.

That's only really a nerf if it isn't included in the points

True enough.

Ooo! Shiny. I like that Autarch.

 statu wrote:
Is that a scatter laser on the back jetbike??

It looks like it. That’d be a change.

I wonder if they removed the option for the cannon?

my internet is so crappy I cant view those images :-(

Grrrr

Genestealer Cult
Week1: Hybrids
Week2: Limo, Codex
Week3: Clampack Patriarch, Magus and Broodlord re-release
Genestealers included in dex.

if only this could be true :( Even if I cannot believe it I assure you I would buy every single box. Pre-order.

More from Mr Maloke on Warseer:

"windriders: same pts as before.
3 windriders

statline unchanged.

may include up to 7 additional windriders for same points as before
may take a windriderwarlock for same points as before pts
warlock may replace his hagun zar for a runespear for the same points as before
each windrider may exchange the TL shuriken catapult for:
scatter laser or
shuriken cannon, both same points. shuriken cannon as before.


that means you can basically have a 10 man unit entirely kitted with scatterlasers for 27ppm and add another warlock to them

they also are still troop selections. i think the meta shifts again.

the only other interresting things are those leaked 2 datacards and the 1 leaked psychic power in the WD:

runes of battle 1
destroy/renew
warpcharge 1

its either:
S5 ap 4 assault1, soulblaze flamer
or:
a friendly unit within 18" restores a single wound. this cannot bring units back to the board that have been removed as casuality.

and for the datacards:

11:
1 victory point if you kill a character (not just in a challenge, just a character)
12:
gain a victory point if a enemy unit got killed by a eldar unit with the skimmer or eldar jetbike type. gain d3 vitory points if you killed 3 or more in one round. "

Man, that Limited Edition is really slick looking.

The Iyanden supplement was also taken down from the Webstore, so maybe this is replacing that as well? I guess if there are ways to build all the different craftworlds that would make sense.

Those jetbikes look so magnet friendly on the gun mount . On the other hand I have the feeling I have seen them like 5 years ago but not painted.I don't like the farseer / warlock on bike. Through the so many years without a model I have seen brilliant conversions and even third party models that are so much better than this.

Another rumor put Wraithknight at Gargantuan MC and maybe MC. If it's truly getting a Strength D gun, I'm not surprised. Would be painful for those who have multiple of them though.

Anyone want to rehost the images off 4chan? Can't get there from work and I'm dying here!

Thank you for the images.

A small part of me is comparing the wording on the Harlequins book cover to this and thinking.... It is a supplement! (I know you all say otherwise and I am most likely, wrong). Also the lack of fusion pistol and scatter laser jetbikes in the current dex pretty much confirms this.

It's not a supplement - it's just the new branding - check the Blood Angels Dex - it's Codex Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels.

For SL and SC to both be 10 points, something must have changed. Perhaps Heavy3 SL or Assault4 SC?

(removing Laser Lock from SL would have no effect on Jetbikes, so shouldn't be relevant..)

Thanks for the leaks!

 Orrus wrote:
Thank you for the images.

A small part of me is comparing the wording on the Harlequins book cover to this and thinking.... It is a supplement! (I know you all say otherwise and I am most likely, wrong). Also the lack of fusion pistol and scatter laser jetbikes in the current dex pretty much confirms this.

I can see it being more of a reboot type thing, I'd imagine the next DE book will be Codex:Eldar Commoragh or something, similar to how Blood Angels are codex Adeptus Astartes blood angels

 statu wrote:

 Orrus wrote:
Thank you for the images.

A small part of me is comparing the wording on the Harlequins book cover to this and thinking.... It is a supplement! (I know you all say otherwise and I am most likely, wrong). Also the lack of fusion pistol and scatter laser jetbikes in the current dex pretty much confirms this.

I can see it being more of a reboot type thing, I'd imagine the next DE book will be Codex:Eldar Commoragh or something, similar to how Blood Angels are codex Adeptus Astartes blood angels

Also, the current book (and supplement) being taken down means this is clearly a replacement. Wonder how long it'll take for people to stop trying to use them though.

Yeah, I'm quite happy I don't play Eldar, but that Codex and that Autarch... sooner or later, added to the collection they will.

I don't play Eldar, and it's just as well as that Spec Ed version looks amazing. If the BA spec ed had looked half that good I would've grabbed one.

Stupid space elves getting the beautiful book...

D

I have to say, I really love the pose the Autarch has and his helmet is absolutely brilliant looking! I won't be buying any of this apart from the codex, I have pretty much all the jetbikes and converted jetseers I'll ever need.
Bit disappointed that laser lock is gone though...

EDIT: I take it back, may need moar bikes simply because of all the spare scatter lasers I have

I liked the laser lock for my falcons. Made them a nice TAC unit. Plus scatter lasers were the gun that came with the kit. We’ll see what changed, but I might be swapping them out for brightlances.

Yay magnets!

Now that Wraithknights are proper GCs instead of oversized Wraithlords, I might finally build the one I've had still on the sprues since 2013.

At long last! The hideous 2nd Edition Windriders shall be no more!

I'm liking the rumors about the "Decurion-Style" detachment so far. I just hope that Biel-Tan gets some love. Guardians unlocking Aspect Warriors?
Hopefully the detachment bonuses will be good too, but not Decurion good. Maybe Battle Focus as a detachment bonus?

The size of the book sounds good too. 160 pages of the excellent lore plus individual Craftworld tactics would be amazing. I'll definitely be pre-ordering the limited edition.

Its a shame for real...even though the swooping hawk wings Autarch looks great as a unit he is just terribad compared to the Jetbike Autarch with lance or even the warpspider autarch.

Will I require Codex Eldar to use Codex Eldar Craftworlds, or will everything needed be included?

I didn't like the redesign jetbikes shown a couple of years ago, but these models look fine. I like how the shape of the original jetbike was preserved.

Do we yet know what heavy weapon options are included?

This codex is pretty much Codex:Eldar

Definitely a scatter laser on a jetbike!

So now we have new jetbikes, what's going to happen to shining spears rumour?

Is it still going to be the same compatible resin upgrade pack or are they getting something new/in the box?

I wouldn't say no if they too got the special weapons treatment.

Spears with an anti-tank weapon like the reavers might be nice....

Ranged D weapons are forbidden at the local tournaments where I play, but I actually wanted to use the Sword + Shield variant. Now that the sword is rumoured to be Strength D... well, time to piss your pants, Imperial Knights.

I believe the ITC just voted to ban ranged D as well. Guess we'll see a lot more CC variants now!

Eff Gee Dubs and their two year book cycle. Eff them up their stupid Ash holes.

But the jet bikes look sweeeeet.

I have 20 of the old jetbikes, scatter lasers sounds interesting as an option. Bright lances or star cannon would be very interesting, especially if the heavy weapon ratio remains at 1:3.

Is a GMC limited to just 2 weapons like a MC? Wriathknight might get even cooler because they can have the 2 additional weapons.

No, it can fire each weapon. At a different target even, if desired.

 Redemption wrote:
No, it can fire each weapon. At a different target even, if desired.

Wow, throw on a couple lances and your WK gets even more useful. Makes you wonder how many points they are going up.

Im sure they will keep the options in the box only, so i will prob just throw on 2 scatter lasers. 8 S:6 shots at a different target than the 2 S heavy wraithcannons will be nice.

So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

100% yes

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

We are not sure yet until more people see the WD or get the Codex itself in hand. Even then, do they even ever say that a Codex replaces another Codex somewhere in the book itself? I don't think they ever specifically say it replaces anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

100% yes

Proof, please.

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

If you are seeing scatterlasers on jetbikes and rumors of WK being a GC, then I highly doubt the old codex Eldar will still be valid.

rollawaythestone wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

We are not sure yet until more people see the WD or get the Codex itself in hand. Even then, do they even ever say that a Codex replaces another Codex somewhere in the book itself? I don't think they ever specifically say it replaces anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

100% yes

Proof, please.

Only one thing to say.. Denial is not a river in Egypt..

Pdogg614 wrote:
8 S:6 shots at a different target than the 2 S heavy wraithcannons will be nice.

That's assuming scatter lasers stay the same. It's already mentioned that they've lost laser-lock.

rollawaythestone wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

We are not sure yet until more people see the WD or get the Codex itself in hand. Even then, do they even ever say that a Codex replaces another Codex somewhere in the book itself? I don't think they ever specifically say it replaces anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
So is this craftworld dex replacing the 6th edition codex? Are we sure on that? I'm just trying to clarify.

100% yes

Proof, please.

1) The book is taken down from the website.
2) If it has statlines for models with the same detachment, it replaces it. From the rumors, this is true.

It's 160 pages. You cannot buy the "current" codex anymore from GW. What more proof do you expect? Unless you think you can still run 5th ed IG dex because new one is Astra Militarum, or old BA because new one is Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels.

You guys misunderstand. I totally believe the Codex is being replaced. But until we see it, isn't it a little rash to say "100% proven"?

rollawaythestone wrote:
You guys misunderstand. I totally believe the Codex is being replaced. But until we see it, isn't it a little rash to say "100% proven"?

Not for anyone who knows what deductive reasoning is.

But you have to admit that it's a pretty strong indicator...

Requizen wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
You guys misunderstand. I totally believe the Codex is being replaced. But until we see it, isn't it a little rash to say "100% proven"?

Not for anyone who knows what deductive reasoning is.

Neither do you apparently, because this is inductive reasoning...

He's not saying "I don't believe it", he's asking "did I miss a leak?".

rollawaythestone wrote:
You guys misunderstand. I totally believe the Codex is being replaced. But until we see it, isn't it a little rash to say "100% proven"?

It's really, really easy, buddy.

1. Go to GW's website. Click 40k. Click Book Format. Click Printed Books (or eBooks).
2. Scroll up to the factions.

See how there's no Eldar? In a few days, there will be an Eldar checkbox again, and when you click it, you will see Codex: Eldar Craftworlds, the special edition, and other language editions in jurisdictions where books are released in more than one language (like Canada).

The fact that you can't purchase it now -- ** not even as an eBook ** -- is as much proof as any person could reasonably expect. Besides, what else is going to be in 168 pages?

If you want to say, well, that's not good enough -- you'd have to also claim that the rumors are just rumors, and screenshots and photo of the models and the book cover at http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/boom-eldar-minis-at-last.html is a fake.

Seriously... what more do you want than:

Any word on if my terminators still have to cower in fear from basic eldar troops? (Aka do they still have pseudo rending on shurikens?)

I'd be happy to see that ability take a long vacation.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Any word on if my terminators still have to cower in fear from basic eldar troops? (Aka do they still have pseudo rending on shurikens?)

Probably will based on Harlequins having it.

rollawaythestone wrote:

Requizen wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
You guys misunderstand. I totally believe the Codex is being replaced. But until we see it, isn't it a little rash to say "100% proven"?

Not for anyone who knows what deductive reasoning is.

Neither do you apparently, because this is inductive reasoning...

If it were inductive reasoning, one would observe evidence and draw a conclusion, which is probable but not certain.
If it were deductive reasoning, one would observe evidence (photos of ordering lists, book covers, models), which if you assume are true, the conclusion MUST also be true.

I would argue the latter, as I do not know how anyone who plays 40k to interpret a book that reads, "Codex Eldar: Craftworlds" to be anything other than the Codex for Eldar Craftworlds, and a replace meant for the old Codex: Eldar, which was a Codex about... you guessed it, Eldar on Craftworlds.

Im betting battle focus is gone however.

Battle focus probably goes to a Command Benefit for Decurion/Formations

I hope not, Eldar infantry are pretty lackluster in most cases (the OP reputation of the codex rests more on wave serpents and wraith units) and that rule makes them more fun to play and is very characterful.

 FTGTEvan wrote:
Battle focus probably goes to a Command Benefit for Decurion/Formations

Your probably on to something.

rollawaythestone wrote:

Requizen wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
You guys misunderstand. I totally believe the Codex is being replaced. But until we see it, isn't it a little rash to say "100% proven"?

Not for anyone who knows what deductive reasoning is.

Neither do you apparently, because this is inductive reasoning...

Burn.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Any word on if my terminators still have to cower in fear from basic eldar troops? (Aka do they still have pseudo rending on shurikens?)

I'd be happy to see that ability take a long vacation.

Considering how much AP2 Eldar have in addition to bladestorm, termies will ALWAYS cower in fear from Eldar (or carry stormshields).

So were seeing buffs in certain places but no nerfs to speak of thus far?

Laser lock is gone.

 I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:
I hope not, Eldar infantry are pretty lackluster in most cases (the OP reputation of the codex rests more on wave serpents and wraith units) and that rule makes them more fun to play and is very characterful.

I beg to differ, having the ability to shoot 2 rending shots at BS4 and then run back with a reroll from fleet + overwatch was ridiculously imbalanced verse assault armies since your killing them back a few inches then running an average of 4 more back meaning they generally need to forgo their own shooting AND roll a 12" assault IF they survive overwatch. Especially when you look at how cheap the infantry is. DA are even more disturbing.

They either need to lose BS4 (not rumored) faux rending (not gona happen, harlequins have it) or lose the universal shoot and scoot. I am betting they flat lose it, or at least am hoping, and I love guardians. It's currently insane though.

Distortion Weapon = D-Weapon

Maybe something was lost in translation there, because if so, Wraithguard are going to be out of control.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Laser lock is gone.

That remedies serpent shields some already.

A d weapon on a normal infantry unit sounds a little too strong

But yea, all we've seen so far is buffs, which is strange, cause Eldar certainly didnt need to get better

 Thokt wrote:
Distortion Weapon = D-Weapon

Maybe something was lost in translation there, because if so, Wraithguard are going to be out of control.

They needed to find a way to counter repair protocols...


Remember the old lady that swallowed the fly?

I just want to say, for a company that says they are a model company and dosen't think the public buys their models for any other reason than the joy of de-spruing them and painting them, they sure make alot of books.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
A d weapon on a normal infantry unit sounds a little too strong

But yea, all we've seen so far is buffs, which is strange, cause Eldar certainly didnt need to get better

It might be nerfs in the form of points cost for key units. Plus, we still haven't heard what's up with the serpent shield.

 Thokt wrote:
Distortion Weapon = D-Weapon

Maybe something was lost in translation there, because if so, Wraithguard are going to be out of control.

The WD is talking about the Wraithknight, which has Heavy Wraithcannons, while the Wraithguard have Wraithcannons.

It could be that all distort weapons become D (Nottingham has a pretty serious drug problem after all), but it's also very likely that strength D becomes the differentiating factor for the biggest distort weapon.

If every windrider gets a scatter laser at 27 ppm I'll be speechless. Especially since they are still troops and remain otherwise unchanged.

A 270 point Obsec unit that can move 48" a turn OR shoot 40 s6 shots at 36"..... That could be balanced.....

Skitarri will take em on right? right?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Laser lock is gone.

That remedies serpent shields some already.

I hope they don't touch serpent shields now if laser lock is actually gone. Laser lock is what made it good in the first place.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
A d weapon on a normal infantry unit sounds a little too strong

But yea, all we've seen so far is buffs, which is strange, cause Eldar certainly didnt need to get better

Yay, thanks GW for making me not want to play Eldar ever again. I'll take the 6th edition codex, please.

That Autarch makes me want to start an Eldar army. Really nice model. We already have an Eldar army in the house but they're Ulthwé so an autarch doesn't really seem appropriate. Always liked Biel-tan... hmm... curses

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Laser lock is gone.

That remedies serpent shields some already.

I hope they don't touch serpent shields now if laser lock is actually gone. Laser lock is what made it good in the first place.

No, D6+1 S7 Ignores Cover at 60" range is what made them great. Combining with laser lock just made them stupidly broken (instead of just sort of broken).

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Laser lock is gone.

That remedies serpent shields some already.

I hope they don't touch serpent shields now if laser lock is actually gone. Laser lock is what made it good in the first place.

It's still broken, no dedicated troop carrier has a right to boast as much defense/offense as the WS. Take away Ignores cover and I think it will be fine.

 Thokt wrote:
Distortion Weapon = D-Weapon

Maybe something was lost in translation there, because if so, Wraithguard are going to be out of control.

Leak guy wrote:Distorsion wepon = D-weapon.

CC weapon of the wraithknight is D weapon.

I think this line was meant to clarify that the wraithcannons are "D-weapons" (as in Distort-weapons), but the ghostglaive is a "D weapon" (as in a Destroyer weapon).

I'll be legitimately upset if the Wraith Knight gets at initiative Strength D.

For whatever reason the Bloodthirster isn't allowed to have at Initiative Strength D because otherwise all his attacks on a multi would high toughness model would be too much. Oh... kind of like the Wraith Knight.

I am more concerned with the bikes. WK is rumored gargantuan, bloodthrister isn't. makes perfect sense to me.

Now, a 27 point space marine that can JSJ/boost 48"/shoot 4 s6 shots out to 36" WITH OBsec? THAT is insane. Even if WS remained unchanged, why on earth would you take one over 10 of those at a mere 270pts?

Edit: It MUST be 1 in 3, otherwise thank god necrons are so durable because they will be the only ones left to stand up to this ha ha.

Yeah, i am doubting that every single bike can take a scatter laser. unless scatter lasers are getting nerfed into oblivion.

If I need to field 3 Guardian squads to give Battle Focus to my swordwind strike force, I'm going to be very let down.

Awesome, new models. Definitely they go on my to buy list.

Gargantuan Wraithknight with D weapons? Im listening...

Heh. Exactly what I thought.

New Jetbike kit with a weapon they've not had before.

The pseudo rendi g is to could termies the fact that the eldar as squishy, and short ranged. Guardians have the survivability of conscripts, at over 4x the cost. Terminators DO NOT fear guardians! 10 guardians (if none die on the way in) fire 20 shots, maybe 14 hit, 7 wound, one rends. So maybe (MAYBE) on extra terminator dies to their shooting.

Now, look at the math for conscripts at the same point total (I believe they are 3 ppm)
At 12", you have 60 shots, 20 hits, 6 wounds. One dead terminator. So the Eldar will kill 2/3 more of a terminator, (maybe) less if they are in cover or have a storm shield.

I wouldn't exactly call that fear inducing...

I expected laser lock gone and a point increase on knights, moving them to lords and buffing them works, its just a better version of the imp knight.

The king is dead, long live the king.

I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

what is next week hint !?

Wow, so every one should pucker their balloon knots for scat spam bikes!

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

And what is your youtube channel called?

Well I guess making Scatter Lasers AP 6 instead of AP - is a slight buff?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Well I guess making Scatter Lasers AP 6 instead of AP - is a slight buff?

Because F greentide

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Well I guess making Scatter Lasers AP 6 instead of AP - is a slight buff?

They have always been AP 6, the shield was AP -

Edit: Maybe not always, but for 6th they have been AP 6

Man 270 for either 40 s6 36" range shots or 30 s6 rending shots to 24".... Both so gross. Guide will make that unit impossible to play against. I guess that solves FMC spam and wraiths....

Drop pods will hurt it, but I don't see them doing enough damage per point based on pod unit costs.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.

So the days of Fire Warriors with the best troop gun are gone. 4 shots S6 is enough to spam bikes!
Battle Focus on a unit that cannot Run... let's see if they'll change that to include turbo-boost.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.

I1 melee S: D is ok.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am more concerned with the bikes. WK is rumored gargantuan, bloodthrister isn't. makes perfect sense to me.

Now, a 27 point space marine that can JSJ/boost 48"/shoot 4 s6 shots out to 36" WITH OBsec? THAT is insane. Even if WS remained unchanged, why on earth would you take one over 10 of those at a mere 270pts?

Edit: It MUST be 1 in 3, otherwise thank god necrons are so durable because they will be the only ones left to stand up to this ha ha.

Bikes can't JSJ because bikes can't use Battle Focus.

I hope guide is WC2

If vypers are required for detachments, I want to see what they did to their fluff. They have always been a fast support unit, nothing close to a core part of an eldar army. The only craftworld that might require them is Saim-Hann. Hopefully there is more to this.

Not that it bothers me, I like the things.

Mymearan wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am more concerned with the bikes. WK is rumored gargantuan, bloodthrister isn't. makes perfect sense to me.

Now, a 27 point space marine that can JSJ/boost 48"/shoot 4 s6 shots out to 36" WITH OBsec? THAT is insane. Even if WS remained unchanged, why on earth would you take one over 10 of those at a mere 270pts?

Edit: It MUST be 1 in 3, otherwise thank god necrons are so durable because they will be the only ones left to stand up to this ha ha.

Bikes can't JSJ because bikes can't use Battle Focus.

Actually they can since all eldar class jet bikes get an assault phase 2d6 jump move.... Know your facts bud.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

Any hints as to the nature of the Wraith Warhost perks? And how serious a Vyper tax are we talking here? I own zero. 1 per detachment sounds like you'd regularly need 3-4.

 Nevelon wrote:
If vypers are required for detachments, I want to see what they did to their fluff. They have always been a fast support unit, nothing close to a core part of an eldar army. The only craftworld that might require them is Saim-Hann. Hopefully there is more to this.

Not that it bothers me, I like the things.

Sales.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thokt wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

Any hints as to the nature of the Wraith Warhost perks? And how serious a Vyper tax are we talking here? I own zero. 1 per detachment sounds like you'd regularly need 3-4.

If you hurry they are cheap as chips the last few I bought off ebay.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Man 270 for either 40 s6 36" range shots or 30 s6 rending shots to 24".... Both so gross. Guide will make that unit impossible to play against. I guess that solves FMC spam and wraiths....

Drop pods will hurt it, but I don't see them doing enough damage per point based on pod unit costs.

With Guide the Scatter Laser unit can kill almost 4 Wraiths (no RP). Without Guide, they kill almost 3.

Good thing Eldar are AoC with Tau. Jetbikes will leave my Crisis to vehicle duty (melta); plasma and flamer won't be that necessary

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
If vypers are required for detachments, I want to see what they did to their fluff. They have always been a fast support unit, nothing close to a core part of an eldar army. The only craftworld that might require them is Saim-Hann. Hopefully there is more to this.

Not that it bothers me, I like the things.

Sales.

I know that’s the real reason, just hoping the in-game one makes some sense. I don’t know enough about necron units to know how core the tomb blades to their lore/armies. Was that another out of the blue thing?

God damnit I can't believe they managed to out-buff even the Necron Wraith buff with the jet bikes. So much good stuff in these last few codices and they have to ruin it all with one or two mindblowingly stupid things like this and the Wraith buffs.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Wow, so every one should pucker their balloon knots for scat spam bikes!

That cant be right. 10 3+ save jetbikes with move shoot move with scatter lasers for 270pts? I gotta see that in print. 40 s6 ap6 shots would light a unit up, more so with guide or prescience.

Mymearan wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am more concerned with the bikes. WK is rumored gargantuan, bloodthrister isn't. makes perfect sense to me.

Now, a 27 point space marine that can JSJ/boost 48"/shoot 4 s6 shots out to 36" WITH OBsec? THAT is insane. Even if WS remained unchanged, why on earth would you take one over 10 of those at a mere 270pts?

Edit: It MUST be 1 in 3, otherwise thank god necrons are so durable because they will be the only ones left to stand up to this ha ha.

Bikes can't JSJ because bikes can't use Battle Focus.

You're assuming that battle focus is the same - maybe not the case.

The wraith host is 1 spiritseer, 3 units of Wraith guard or CC, 1 wraithlord and 1 wraithknight - they do not give any hints to bonus for formations or detachments
I don't think the D weapon CC is worth it for the wraithknight but him alone becoming Gargantuan changes SOOOOO many things - he can fire ALL his weapons (not just 2), he can fire at different targets, he can not overwatch, he has 5 up FNP auto, he can not be instant killed.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

Mind posting a pic of the jetbike rules?

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
The wraith host is 1 spiritseer, 3 units of Wraith guard or CC, 1 wraithlord and 1 wraithknight - they do not give any hints to bonus for formations or detachments
I don't think the D weapon CC is worth it for the wraithknight but him alone becoming Gargantuan changes SOOOOO many things - he can fire ALL his weapons (not just 2), he can fire at different targets, he can not overwatch, he has 5 up FNP auto, he can not be instant killed.

Thanks Elluj!

I think we can assume jetbikes will retain their assault move. Isn't it laid out in the core rulebook?

Doesn't matter eldar bikes get the assault move as per the rulebook

 ronin_cse wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

And what is your youtube channel called?

my channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCirv7zjwzoIuzVOVIERJ9pg
it should be up later tonight Cheers.

The bikes still have battlefocus... what the new rules are I don't know? But if it is like old why do they have it? we will have to wait and see. Cheers

Laser-Lock is gone?

Good.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
The wraith host is 1 spiritseer, 3 units of Wraith guard or CC, 1 wraithlord and 1 wraithknight - they do not give any hints to bonus for formations or detachments
I don't think the D weapon CC is worth it for the wraithknight but him alone becoming Gargantuan changes SOOOOO many things - he can fire ALL his weapons (not just 2), he can fire at different targets, he can not overwatch, he has 5 up FNP auto, he can not be instant killed.

I would assume that's probably 0-1 Wraithknights. If they're truly becoming GMCs (and likely getting a price increase) making one required to even bring the other Wraith units would be insane.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Laser-Lock is gone?

Good.

I weep as I frantically glue scatter lasers onto my Jetbikes.

Well, I don't like the rumor of being forced to take Guardians. Can I take the Aspect formation portion thing if I don't take the core part? How does the Decurion thing work anyway? Just pm me how this works so I don't derail this thread any further.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
The wraith host is 1 spiritseer, 3 units of Wraith guard or CC, 1 wraithlord and 1 wraithknight - they do not give any hints to bonus for formations or detachments
I don't think the D weapon CC is worth it for the wraithknight but him alone becoming Gargantuan changes SOOOOO many things - he can fire ALL his weapons (not just 2), he can fire at different targets, he can not overwatch, he has 5 up FNP auto, he can not be instant killed.

Great point, the multi targeting, poison on 6s, immune to instant death and most importantly STOMPS, it just became the eldar imperial knight that cant be wrecked with a few meltaguns. WOUNDS BEAT ARMOUR BITCHES

Seriously that unit is bananas good.

Bring 2 x 10 man scat units 540 pts so you get the most from your guides

then spam 5 man units at a mere 135

Heck 3 man units will only be 81 pts and toss out 12 s6 shots...


This is beyond stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Well, I don't like the rumor of being forced to take Guardians. Can I take the Aspect formation portion thing if I don't take the core part? How does the Decurion thing work anyway? Just pm me how this works so I don't derail this thread any further.

There formations so yes you can just take them separately but you won't get a command benefit. So you could take dires as troops from a CAD assuming they are still troops, then just bring formations for aspects.

Indeed... Which is why we need pics of the rules.

Mymearan wrote:
Indeed... Which is why we need pics of the rules.

I am sure Eiluj The Farseer will show it off in his youtube review.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 ronin_cse wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I got the white dwarf today. Codex $58, Cards, Autarch with wings, Farseer on bike can make into Warlock $33, Bike Squad $41 American. Rules for bike in WD - same points cost but can take a warlock for 50 points so same cost as last codex - 5 points spear - same rules, ALL BIKES can take Shuriken Cannons or Scatter LAsers for 10 pts each. Scatter laser S6 AP6 4 shot NO LASER LOCK NOTED so looks like gone. Shuriken weapons have bladestorm same rule as last. Bike still 3up save, have battle focus still.
Warlock level 1 can take warlock powers or Sanctic powers ( I really hope that Maelific is gone for Eldar - they should not be summoning daemons)

Detachments are cool - all have vypers as obligatory tithe, Command 0-3 Eldrad, Illic, Phoenix lords, avatar, or 2 farseers and warlock council, Farseer obligatory HQ for main part of detachment
Bike one, one with farseer and warlock council
Extras - rangers, Wraithknight / lord / or fighter, 3 crimson hunters, 3 dire avenger units, wraith warhost - spiritseer, 3 wraith - guard/CC, wraithlord, wraithknight, others - Falcon/Prism/web hovercraft, 3 aspects choice of any


There is an article where a Wraithknight is pitted against a bunch of stuff - no rules posted but there are hints in the article - it is now a Gargantuan creature, the d-cannons are destroyer now, the sword is a Dweapon and must be I1 since it swings on the new Bloodthirster with D-weapon at the same time to kill it. That is a game changer to wraithknights.
Made a video will post it once had time to upload it on my you tube page. Cheers guys.

And what is your youtube channel called?

my channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCirv7zjwzoIuzVOVIERJ9pg
it should be up later tonight Cheers.

The bikes still have battlefocus... what the new rules are I don't know? But if it is like old why do they have it? we will have to wait and see. Cheers

can you tell us the next week hint please

10 windriders all with SL
10 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL

1080pts LOL

Crap, how will I ever manage to eek out some fire support with only 770 pts left over..... I mean it only has 160 s6 shots with a 36"range.

Ridiculous.

Damn, these jetbikes are ugly as hell. They're barely an improvement over the old horrible ones.

Autarch is cool though

 Red Corsair wrote:
10 windriders all with SL
10 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL
5 windriders all with SL

1080pts LOL

Crap, how will I ever manage to eek out some fire support with only 770 pts left over.....

Ridiculous.

Wait so Windriders w/ SL aren't restricted to that one per three models like the current Shuriken Cannon?

Oh my days..