Due to massive size this thread will be organized by rumor source
RULES
Spoiler:
via Iuchiban 4-18-2015
Phoenix Lords:
Asurmen (220)
4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies.
Jain Zar (200)
When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6″ get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred.
Karandras (200)
When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves.
Fuegan (220)
He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound.
Baharroth (170)
When DS all units at 6″ are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR.
Maugan Ra (195)
Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5″ marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.
On top of that, they have as well the rules listed for their Aspects.
Also I will add that illic night spears weapon has lost distort but always has precision shot and can give that to ranger units he joins.
via Iuchiban 4-17-2015
Ok. Let’s go.
All Distortion weapons are Strenght D. All of them. But the scythes apply a -1 when rolling on the D table, and the strenght is considered to be 4 when calculating the instant death.
Step by step.
Banshees add +3″ when running or assaulting. They igoner the I penalti when assualting through cover.
There are no “chapter tactics”.
Yes they have:
Primaris: Guide (no changes)
1: Executioner: Focussed witch fire. 24″. Target receives 3 hits, always wounds on 2+. If target diez, another model receives 2 hits. If target dies another gone receives 1 hit.
2: Fatality: You re-roll to wound or to penetrate when firing at target unit. 24″
3: Will of Asuryan: 12″ bubble of Fear and Adamantium will
4: Fortune: As always
5: Mind fight: Mainly the same.
6: Ancestral Storm: Warp charges 3 (5″ blast), Warp charge 4 (Apoc blast), 24″, Haywire, wounds 2+
Names may be different in the English version. (I own the Spanish one).
Wraithknight is LoW (295 points), Jump gargantuan creature
Wraithguard/blades are not tropos anymore if taking a Spiritseer (Only Elites)
Crimson hunter basically the same, but 140 points only.
No changes on Battle focus of the bladestorm rule. No hints on the Iyanden codex
(Wraithknight) Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
(The Wraithknight’s Heavy Wraithcannons) Is the equipment by default.
(Jetbikes) 17/model, every model can purchase one scatter laser or shuriken cannon for +10 points
(Wraithknight Suncannon) Sun (Sorry for the “solar”) remains the same.
(Wave) Serpents are 110 points, and shield is now: S6, Assault 2D6, Ignores cover, One use only.
Shining spears have 4+ cover save if they moved the previous turn. 25/model. Lance is: 6″, F6, Assault 1, Lance. In combat: +3F when charging. Both are AP3.
Wraithblades: Same but 30/model and have Rage.
Hemlock: Same cost, has Lvl 2, can choose Daemonology (Sacred), Telepathy and Battle Runes. D-Scythes are a special D weapon as mentioned above,.
Scorpions: 17/model, Infiltration, Stealth, and Shrouded until they fire or fight in combat
Warp Spiders: 19/model Monofilament rule has changed.They roll to wound against I, although the T is still used to calculate ID.
Hawks: 16/model, they move 18″, and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire
(Wraithguard) Cost is the same.
(Regards to Autarchs and Swooping Hawk “no scatter”) Basically the same.
(Squadrons of Falcons/Fire Prisms/Night Spinners) YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up to three!!!!!!!! And they have special rules if done so:
Falcon: if Deep Strike, first Falcon does not scatter. Others are place at 4″.
Fire Prism: For each additional Fire Prism firing +1S / -1AP
Night Spinners: +1S for each Night spinner
(Serpent Shield) Nop, only 24″ (range)
(Eldar Warhost Detachment) The main bonus of the Warhost is that they always run 6″.
(Serpent Shield Defence) When working as a shield, it works as before.
Falcon can DS only if taken in a unit of 3.
Guardians: Same
Dire avengers: They overwatch with BS2
Avatar is LoW, but mainly the same
I cannot see any psyker being able to get malefic daemonology
Formation rules:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18″ or less from spiritser, reroll to hit
(Warp Spider guns) Why is that? You still have S6. Target needs to have I6 to wound him on 4+.
(Dire Avengers Troops) Yes, they are.
Before leaving I will post the list of special ítems:
– A pistol S4, AP3, Rending
– A sword +2S, AP- Rending and if fighting in a challenge, wounds on 2+ and Instant Death
– One sniper rifle, AP2, 120″
– One ítem that if bearer does not cast any phychic power, or shots during the shooting phase, he can run 48″ and may reroll cover saves.
– One sword +1S, AP3, Soulblaze (affects wounded unit and all enemy units at 6″)
– One ítem that when bearer diez, 5″ template is placed and all models suffer one S4, AP5 hit. If at least, one wound is infflicted, bearer comes back to life, with 1W. One use only
– One ítem that makes psyhic powers required 1 WC less. No inv saves if done so.
Dire Avengers: Overwatch at BS2 OR get counter attack and stubborn
Exarch: 4++
Howling banshees: +3" when running or assaulting. Ignore I penalties when assaulting through difficult terrain. Fear. No Overwatch allowed when Banshees assault
Exarch: Units in CC with the Banshees have -2L
Striking Scorpions: Stealth. Shrouded until the fire or assault.
Exarch: During a challenge compare I values. Exarch gets +1A for each point his I is better tan his oponent.
Fire Dragons: +1 on the vehicle damage chart.
Exarch: Once per turn, may reroll one to hit, to wound or to penetrare roll
Swooping Haws: If the move over a flier, every modl gets one special attack that hits on 4+, S4, AP4, Haywire. They move 18"
Exarch: His unit does not scatter if DS
Warp Spiders: They may jump during the opponent's shooting phase. If after the jum, the spiders are out of LoS or reach, firing unit cannot choose another target.
Exarch: His unit reroll all LD tests
Shining Spears: 4+ cover sabe
Exarch: Reroll to wound vs MC and rerolls to penétrate
Dark Reapers: Reroll to hit if target is: Flier, has turboboosted previous turn or moved flat out
Exarch: His weapon fires one more shot tan normally. For example: Heavy 2 becomes Heavy 3
Upgrades are:
Ignore Stunnig and Shaken with 4+ and 2+ (10 points)
Move through cover (10 points)
When moving flat out: 24" (15 points)
Once per game after moving flat out, may fire a single weapon at full BS (25 points)
Holofields: 5++ (15 points) flyers can't take
Battle runes are basically same:
Primaris: Shrouded / removes Stealth and Shrouded
1: Heavy Flamer / A model recovers a W
2: Fearless / -3 to Ld to target
3: +1 to WS and I / -1 to WS and I
4: +1 to armour sabe / -1 to armour sabe
5: Unit runs +3" / Target cannot run
6: +1S / -1S
Warlord traits.
1: 12" bubble. Once per game reroll 1's to wound
2: 1D3 units get Scout special rule
3: Warlord and his unit run +3"
4: Warlord rerolls all 1's when saving
5: Warlord has divide fire special rule
6: Friendly units do not scatter if DS at 12" from Warlord.
Also Iuchiban's thoughts after using the 'dex:
Just finished my first game vs Necrons. I took a normal CAD + wraith host detachment. Opponent run a Decurion detachment.
Here are my first impressions:
- Wraithknight is absurdly good. I run the Sun cannon + Shield one. Fire the Sun Cannon at some Inmortals, fire the scatter laser were I want to assault. 3+/5++/FnP in a R8 W6 model? Really this guy is unstoppable.
- Fire Dragons are redundant. D-scythes destroy vehicles much better. 5 auto hits that on a 3+ cause one penetrating hit with D3 hull points. No cover. And if there is a unit of Necrons Warriors inside the barge ..... This unit is simply OBSCENE. If they are in the detachment they have Battle Trance ... run + shoot the D-scythe. No more to say
- Warpspiders are much better now. They destroy one C'tan Shard in a single volley. They wound on 2+ to almost everything in the game. They are Little bit worse vs vehicles now ....
- Farseers are really good now. Rerolling one psychic test per turn is very powerful when you need to harness 4 Warp Charges for that Apocaliptic blast power.
- Guardians as usual. Cheap troops
Lords Of War Gaming-
Spoiler:
Lords Of War Gaming wrote:Yes. After Admech it will be codex Craftworld: Eldar. Plastic jetbikes and Artach.
RedFox wrote: Lots of new info from Lords of War Gaming
- Raven Guard vs Tau boxset
- new Space Marine codex this summer
- Eldar codex after Ad Mech
- Tau codex later this year
Raven guard vs Tau and should be out before Tau release.
Don't know about a Raven Guard supplement but Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines will release this summer.
Yes. After Admech it will be codex Craftworld: Eldar. Plastic jetbikes and Artach.
Sad Panda wrote:
There is no summer campaign. Not Sisters vs. Tzeentch. Not CSM vs. Dark Angels. Not Eldar. Those rumors are all nonsense.
Eldar get new Codex, similar to Necrons. Wraithknights gain some weight.
WhispererOfTruth
Spoiler:
WhispererOfTruth's supposed 2015 release schedule. SALT. Spoilered due to massive size.
WhispererofTruth wrote: Hehe rumour time. Eldar are coming, but that release list? Err no. 40k release list for the next year and abit ahoy!
Eldar Week1: Plastic Jetbikes/Shining Spears
Week 2: Clampack Autarch and Codex
Dark Angels Week 1: Tac Squad and Codex
Week 2: Summer Campaign Book Volume 1: Eldar Admech and DA vs Khorne
Tzeentch Week 1: New Daemon Unit
Week 2: Lord of Change
Week 3: Rubric Marines + Campaign Book Volume 2 (DA, Admech, Eldar, Harlequins + Khorne and Tzeentch)(Including a Tzeentch Daemonkin type supplement + rules for the new units.)
Week 4: Campaign Box: Clampack Sorceror and Chaplain
Assassin Boxed Game Plastic Assassins.
Tau Week1: Campaign Box: Tau vs RG (Plastic Commander and Captain)
Week2: Clampack Ethereal and Codex
And every thing is abit vague after that for me. But after that will be more Admech, Horus Heresy, Space Marines inc; Assault Squad, Sisters, Nurgle and Slaanesh stuff.
Faeit 212
Spoiler:
Naftka wrote:Via an Anymonous Source on Faeit 212 (So SALT.)
Expect the next Eldar book to follow the same formula, a primary detachment of one Autarch, two Guardian Defender squads, one Dire Avenger Squad, and one squad of Jet bikes, and then a formation for each of the aspect warriors and their respective phoenix lord, a tank formation, a wrath formation, a ranger formation, Vypes with a tax, crimson hunters, Avatar with a tax, and then a Farseer with Warlocks for a command detachment.
Naftka (3/30) wrote:
There are a lot of rumors floating around right now, and one of them in particular points to Eldar being after the admech release. I believe the original rumor was not referring to Skitarii, but to a full admech codex that was a part of rumors before. Sadly though, a lot of rumors were deleted by the source himself regarding what was coming.
So are Eldar coming next? There are a couple of hints that have been floating around.
- Windrider Jetbikes are not on the GW webstore right now. This has been reported on many sites, and while I have not checked every countries site, its not on the US site at the time of writing this article.
- Lords of War Gaming Yes. After Admech it will be codex Craftworld: Eldar. Plastic jetbikes and Artach.” Im not quite so sure about this one right now. A full codex release was suggested, but a release of several models have also been mentioned.
- No Codex Releases. Other rumors though have also said that there will be no replacing of any of the major codices. Space Marines, Eldar, and Tau, which could lead any Eldar releases to be part of a campaign or smaller releases.
- Rumor Reverb There has been a lot, and many of them have been complete rumor reverb, or even taken a step beyond that. So while I won't substantiate specific rumors, of accuse others of just wishlisting, its created a mess when trying to sort them out.
What I have received though was something tagged onto the end of an email regarding Skitarii (which has panned out as real), from a good source. So while I dont know how serious he was, or have any additional information, here is what he said regarding Eldar.
New eldar codex out in two or three weeks!
If I get more information I will let you know.
Naftka (4/1) wrote:
There are a whole new series of re-directs, that shows a new codex called Eldar Craftworlds, along with many other model releases, including new Eldar Jetbikes and more. Check out the latest in re-directs.
What is a Re-direct?
Its when you type something into the website, and that site auto corrects what you put in. Presumably because the address is already being worked on or saved. Here is today's step by step
anticitizen013 wrote: Of course just as I have an inkling to do a fast Eldar army, the rumours of jetbikes start happening (or rather resurface). Maybe it's a Vyper?
I could see a new viper kit, that sucker’s pretty old, even by Eldar standards. They could duel kit it into a viper/CE venom kit, as a light transport. Similar to the harli one that just came out.
I’d love there to be some truth to these rumors. I should get back to painting my old jetbikes, so they can be finished if/when new ones come out. I’ll take my time.
Regarding existing plastic Aspects: Dire Avengers (oh, and the new flyer aspect too, but that's not really comparable). Looking forward to see which they translate to plastic.
The old jetbikes are stupid looking too. I mean, the riders look so impossibly static for something that is supposed to be going incredibly fast. Not to mention their sweet jackets...
Dire Avengers are definitely plastic, and an argument could POSSIBLY be made for Harlequins being aspect warriors (I realize they aren't, but somebody could probably find a way to argue it). So, yes, there's at least one Aspect Warrior group in plastic (Avengers). So it's a fair statement.
Larry Vela - Birds In The Trees wrote:
There are a lot of factions getting love this year. Here’s the latest on the Craftworld Eldar and what is under development:
via Birds in the Trees 3-19-2015
Eldar will receive new miniatures releases this year, but probably not a new codex.
Eldar will be part of one of the year’s two 40K campaign sets.
So Shield of Baal: 2: Electric Elf Boogaloo? I suppose we can see that model for every campaign release judging by how successful it was.
Miniatures listed are:
1 Small Vehicle box (chatter says a Jetbike based unit)
Possibly plastic Shining Spears or updated Windrider Jetbikes? The "1 vehicle" makes it likely to be some random thing, but it's always probable something is incorrect in the rumor.
2 5-model infantry boxes (2 more Aspects move to plastic)
2 MORE? When were any Aspects in plastic? Seems weird that only 2/8 (I think) aspects are moving to plastic.
2 Clampack models (chatter points to 2 updated plastic Phoenix Lords)
So I'm guessing it's a "Aspect themed" release? Maybe the Phoenix Lords will be the Lords of the aspects that move to plastic?
These rumors are rated: Probable, coming from trusted known sources.
My thoughts in Purple.
Please for the love of God, don't do that. If you want to put your thoughts in?
Do it after the quote.
Anyways, a "small vehicle box" refers to anything from the Venom or what we just saw with the Harlequins for their jetbikes.
Dire Avengers are plastic. And the Crimson Hunters are an Aspect.
The clampacks are likely to be Autarchs of some type.
No, this is almost certainly tosh. Especially as this specifically says "no new codex this year" and LoW who have a much better track record, have hinted there could be.
Biel tan and Sam Hein supplements with new plastic aspects and jetbikes would be a great move. They've been making good decisions since the calender turned over...
Eldarain wrote: Biel tan and Sam Hein supplements with new plastic aspects and jetbikes would be a great move. They've been making good decisions since the calender turned over...
I would expect them to do a new Codex: Eldar so that they can remove the Harlequins from that book before we see more supplements.
I think if anyone is 50/50 on the tracker, I'd peg them as "good guesser" rather than "legitimate source of information" unless I had a really good look at the rumours they'd got right and they were the sort of left field things that accurately guessing would be highly improbable, which I, admittedly, haven't done with Nightfury.
Well. Via Lords of Wargaming. Eldar apparently after AdMech
Yes. After Admech it will be codex Craftworld: Eldar. Plastic jetbikes and Artach.
RedFox wrote: Lots of new info from Lords of War Gaming
- Raven Guard vs Tau boxset
- new Space Marine codex this summer
- Eldar codex after Ad Mech
- Tau codex later this year
Raven guard vs Tau and should be out before Tau release.
Don't know about a Raven Guard supplement but Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines will release this summer.
Yes. After Admech it will be codex Craftworld: Eldar. Plastic jetbikes and Artach.
Eldarain wrote: Biel tan and Sam Hein supplements with new plastic aspects and jetbikes would be a great move. They've been making good decisions since the calender turned over...
The AdMech stuff is already set in motion. On the Eldar: I've been told it's a full codex, but only new Jetbikes (could be two boxes for different unit types thoug - interpretation of mine) and a few characters with it.
Considering that Eldar already have a big model in the current codex, what kind of totally unnecessary new release wil we get? A spaceship? Perhaps a mini craftworld? Because I'm betting the bikes are not being upgraded, those models are there to stay until the last eldar dies.
Miguelsan wrote: Considering that Eldar already have a big model in the current codex, what kind of totally unnecessary new release wil we get? A spaceship? Perhaps a mini craftworld? Because I'm betting the bikes are not being upgraded, those models are there to stay until the last eldar dies.
M.
They are trying to keep up with the Mon Keigh and now will field an eldar on a jetbike riding a jetbike
Theophony wrote: Maybe spiders and scorpions, not to many scorpions with breasts or banshees without
GW's elves tend to have skinny limbs and wasp waists so a lot of elf/eldar kits have both male and female torsos, one of high elf kits can be build as an all male or all female squad.
Squidmanlolz wrote: Banshees are an all female aspect though. Or was that a joke I didn't pick up on?
They're not. There are male Banshees and female Scorps, just that models don't show that. If they were remade in plastic I'm sure that they'd end up being like the DE/Wych and even Guardian kits, with a mix of both.
Squidmanlolz wrote: Banshees are an all female aspect though. Or was that a joke I didn't pick up on?
They're not. There are male Banshees and female Scorps, just that models don't show that. If they were remade in plastic I'm sure that they'd end up being like the DE/Wych and even Guardian kits, with a mix of both.
I don't have my GF's copy of the codex on me, but both the 40k wiki and Lexicanum confirm that the banshees are an all-female aspect, fluff-wise (I know it's linked to the Banshees' connection to matriarchal Iybraesil and Morai-Heg). I wouldn't doubt that GW would retcon that if they wanted to make a Banshees/Scorpion set.
Squidmanlolz wrote: Banshees are an all female aspect though. Or was that a joke I didn't pick up on?
They're not. There are male Banshees and female Scorps, just that models don't show that. If they were remade in plastic I'm sure that they'd end up being like the DE/Wych and even Guardian kits, with a mix of both.
I don't have my GF's copy of the codex on me, but both the 40k wiki and Lexicanum confirm that the banshees are an all-female aspect, fluff-wise (I know it's linked to the Banshees' connection to matriarchal Iybraesil and Morai-Heg). I wouldn't doubt that GW would retcon that if they wanted to make a Banshees/Scorpion set.
There will be no Banshee/Scorpion set and here's why.
LEGS-
Scorpions- Idle, crouching poses. Fits their theme of Stealth.
Banshees- Running poses. Fits their theme as a berserker aspect.
TORSOS-
Scorpions- Heavily armored, with that weird pattern on the backplate
Banshees- Thinly armored, with breast plates.
HEADS-
Scorpions- Mandiblasters
Banshees- Sonic emitters and that magnificent hair.
ARMS-
Scorpions- Defensive and idle poses.
Banshees- Attacking poses.
A dual kit has to restrict bits so that only one option can be made. Banshees and Scorpions are modelled too differently to make that possible.
Squidmanlolz wrote: Banshees are an all female aspect though. Or was that a joke I didn't pick up on?
They're not. There are male Banshees and female Scorps, just that models don't show that. If they were remade in plastic I'm sure that they'd end up being like the DE/Wych and even Guardian kits, with a mix of both.
I don't have my GF's copy of the codex on me, but both the 40k wiki and Lexicanum confirm that the banshees are an all-female aspect, fluff-wise (I know it's linked to the Banshees' connection to matriarchal Iybraesil and Morai-Heg). I wouldn't doubt that GW would retcon that if they wanted to make a Banshees/Scorpion set.
In which case they are both wrong and yet another reason why those sites are not reliable sources of information.
A predominantly female Aspect, what these fierce warriors lack in brute strength they me up foreccison and efficiency.
p.32, last Eldar Codex
Most Howling Banshees are female, although any Warriors Aspects can be male or female.
p. 23, 2nd edition Eldar Codex
Predominantly or mostly is not the same as saying they are all female.
The new Skitarii kit contains two complete sets of arms for the two different weapon types that Vanguards and... whatever the other ones are called can have. Again, this realy isn't an issue.
Verviedi wrote: Banshees and Scorpions are modelled too differently to make that possible.
Hoo, a new space marine codex already? I don't know how I feel about that...as it stands, I think the SM codex is one of the most diversely playable books out there.
If the rumors of the death of Finecast are true the Eldar might be hit the worst.
They'd need rangers and 5 different aspects at a minimum.
Plus Warlocks and Farseers.
GW might be able to do with 3 dual kits but that's still a lot.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Colpicklejar wrote: Hoo, a new space marine codex already? I don't know how I feel about that...as it stands, I think the SM codex is one of the most diversely playable books out there.
Hoo a chance to milk everyone for $50 with minimal work? I know how I feel about that. As it stands I think GW has begun same shameless and desperate milking of a shrinking fanbase I see from DC and Marvel.
Maybe if Banshees get a shared box with mixed-gender bits, they'll finally lose their ridiculous belly button armour. Plus it's another vague step in the direction of more female presence beyond "that one all-girl unit".
That said, I'd see Scorpions fitting better as a dual kit with Warp Spiders just because of the posing. Spiders would just need a helmet, their spinners, and their shell-backpack thing, plus whatever they decide for the Exarch. It would be great if they still decided to add female bodies even without it being a shared kit with Banshees (spoilers: they wouldn't). It also means that both the arachnid-named Aspects are in the same box. This pleases me.
I'm not really sure what would go best with Banshees. Maybe Swooping Hawks? Jump Infantry tend to be in athletic poses, so that works well. They'd only need different weapons, heads, and ports on their backs to fit wings. Obviously some additional specific embellishments would be nice, too. I just hope they'd look better than the latest Harlequin poses.
I'm not sure how I feel about Fire Dragons being combined with Dark Reapers. I know that they both have heavy armour, but I prefer the look of the Fire Dragons in that their armour doesn't actually look heavy (probably because the models predate the rules giving them heavy Aspect Armour). It's very Eldar. I'd prefer slimmer Dark Reapers than thicker Fire Dragons.
Also, I noticed there's a funny amount of alliteration in my proposed dual-kits if you swap the name parts around; Howling Hawks, Dark Dragons and Striking Spiders (leaving Fire Reapers, Swooping Banshees and Warp Scorpions).
The absolute most important detail of this release, whenever it happens, is the scaling. The Skitarii models are nicely-proportioned (their heads, hands and feet are not three times the size they should be), so I'm cautiously optimistic about future releases. "Heroic scale" is the number one reason why I haven't collected a large Eldar army by now (all of my Eldar models are vehicles or Wraiths).
What I find amusing is many people, not so much in this thread but elsewhere, saying "Oh, this will rebalance the Eldar into something more reasonable; makes sense with SM and Tau also in the works; they can nerf their overperforming units."
MajorStoffer wrote: What I find amusing is many people, not so much in this thread but elsewhere, saying "Oh, this will rebalance the Eldar into something more reasonable; makes sense with SM and Tau also in the works; they can nerf their overperforming units."
I might have agreed with you at one point.
but then Necrons happened.
yeah Necrons are a definate odd duck among the current 7th edition 'dexes. the best I can figure most of the 7th ed 'dexes where done cause they had to be done, while 'crons was a "labor of love"
Frozen Ocean wrote: Maybe if Banshees get a shared box with mixed-gender bits, they'll finally lose their ridiculous belly button armour. Plus it's another vague step in the direction of more female presence beyond "that one all-girl unit".
That said, I'd see Scorpions fitting better as a dual kit with Warp Spiders just because of the posing. Spiders would just need a helmet, their spinners, and their shell-backpack thing, plus whatever they decide for the Exarch. It would be great if they still decided to add female bodies even without it being a shared kit with Banshees (spoilers: they wouldn't). It also means that both the arachnid-named Aspects are in the same box. This pleases me.
I'm not really sure what would go best with Banshees. Maybe Swooping Hawks? Jump Infantry tend to be in athletic poses, so that works well. They'd only need different weapons, heads, and ports on their backs to fit wings. Obviously some additional specific embellishments would be nice, too. I just hope they'd look better than the latest Harlequin poses.
I'm not sure how I feel about Fire Dragons being combined with Dark Reapers. I know that they both have heavy armour, but I prefer the look of the Fire Dragons in that their armour doesn't actually look heavy (probably because the models predate the rules giving them heavy Aspect Armour). It's very Eldar. I'd prefer slimmer Dark Reapers than thicker Fire Dragons.
Also, I noticed there's a funny amount of alliteration in my proposed dual-kits if you swap the name parts around; Howling Hawks, Dark Dragons and Striking Spiders (leaving Fire Reapers, Swooping Banshees and Warp Scorpions).
The absolute most important detail of this release, whenever it happens, is the scaling. The Skitarii models are nicely-proportioned (their heads, hands and feet are not three times the size they should be), so I'm cautiously optimistic about future releases. "Heroic scale" is the number one reason why I haven't collected a large Eldar army by now (all of my Eldar models are vehicles or Wraiths).
Not that I care one bit about female models at all...
But the harlequins come with almost 50% female bits. Its actually a pain for me because I have to highlight boobs somehow but if you want female models, the eldar are likely to get them just like the harlequins. I would prefer it came with torsos for all of each gender instead though.
I agree on the heroic scale though, I didnt think the harleuins had meaty hands either, but I have to compare it to true scale models yet.
All I want in an update is a plastic boxed autarch similar to the marine commander or chaos marine lord, all the options and pose as you like. Also new plastic jetbikes, anything else is a bonus, I'd like to see new reapers, I despise the current sculpt and refuse to buy them.
daemonish wrote: All I want in an update is a plastic boxed autarch similar to the marine captain or chaos marine lord, all the options and pose as you like. Also new plastic jetbikes, anything else is a bonus, I'd like to see new reapers, I despise the current sculpt and refuse to buy them.
sadly I think GW's moving to monopose with their new character minis :(
Codex: Jetbike Where eldar get the same old model but nice a nice increase in price due to the new special rules nobody asked. I'm dying to have jetbikes with fleet and relentless.
Gw got a real dilemma with the aspects.
So many iconic units to make in plastic, and so few of them have attractive rules.
A huge aspect release would probably have a hard time finding buyers.
The general player would perhaps buy one or two different aspects (best rules and best looking). Leaving lots of boxes on the shelfs.
They would have to dual kit the aspects so the most popular aspects dont share kits.
Question is who is more popular? I would say firedragons and warpspiders are most useful, while banshees an scorps are more iconic cool.
MajorStoffer wrote: What I find amusing is many people, not so much in this thread but elsewhere, saying "Oh, this will rebalance the Eldar into something more reasonable; makes sense with SM and Tau also in the works; they can nerf their overperforming units."
I might have agreed with you at one point.
but then Necrons happened.
And it's not entirely just Necrons now. We've also got this new Khorne codex that's full of formations and a formation of formations, just like the Necrons. I think we can expect this to happen with all of the new books now.
Via an Anymonous Source on Faeit 212 (So SALT.)
Expect the next Eldar book to follow the same formula, a primary detachment of one Autarch, two Guardian Defender squads, one Dire Avenger Squad, and one squad of Jet bikes, and then a formation for each of the aspect warriors and their respective phoenix lord, a tank formation, a wrath formation, a ranger formation, Vypes with a tax, crimson hunters, Avatar with a tax, and then a Farseer with Warlocks for a command detachment.
MajorStoffer wrote: What I find amusing is many people, not so much in this thread but elsewhere, saying "Oh, this will rebalance the Eldar into something more reasonable; makes sense with SM and Tau also in the works; they can nerf their overperforming units."
I might have agreed with you at one point.
but then Necrons happened.
And it's not entirely just Necrons now. We've also got this new Khorne codex that's full of formations and a formation of formations, just like the Necrons. I think we can expect this to happen with all of the new books now.
Are Necrons considered OP now? All the recent books seem pretty balanced once everything settled down.
Not to mention Flayed Ones and Lychguard. Yes, Necrons are better in melee than pretty much everyone else in the game, and have infinitely superior Genestealers in Flayed Ones.
Verviedi wrote: Via an Anymonous Source on Faeit 212 (So SALT.)
Expect the next Eldar book to follow the same formula, a primary detachment of one Autarch, two Guardian Defender squads, one Dire Avenger Squad, and one squad of Jet bikes, and then a formation for each of the aspect warriors and their respective phoenix lord, a tank formation, a wrath formation, a ranger formation, Vypes with a tax, crimson hunters, Avatar with a tax, and then a Farseer with Warlocks for a command detachment.
I really like this set up. I guess I'm unusual that I prefer Formations over 'just take the best you can put together'. Feels more structured to me without taking away the personal twists that people can put on it. Specifically, I see it as more fluff, less competitive. That's a plus in my book. So this rumor in particular I hope pans out.
But I am friggin scared of what they'll do to our troops. If I lose Pathfinders, which aren't popular and very niche since it's only Alaitoc that fields them fluffy with a Special Character... I'm already resigned to Jetbikes losing Troop status, but troops seem less important these days. I don't think they'll change rules wise since Jetbike Movement is in the BRB, not the Codex.
I like the big formation full of formations because it reminds me of the Epic card system.
Now, just fix the damned Wave Serpent (put that shield blast as 6" like it was probably meant to be), and make most of the Aspects not suck any more and we should get a better book.
My concern is GW is historically very bad at admitting its mistakes, explicitly or tacitly, and such a big swing on the WS (while perfectly logical and much needed) would be tantamount to admitting they got it very wrong.
Fingers crossed that someone with authority is involved who still places at least some value on the integrity of the game.
If the Serpent Shield is gone then the air defense Scatter Laser type, I can't remember the name, has to make another appearance. That Serpent was the only defense against flyers we have other than the paper flyers we can take. If they take it, we have to get an equivalent.
Hehe rumour time. Eldar are coming, but that release list? Err no. 40k release list for the next year and abit ahoy!
Eldar Week1: Plastic Jetbikes/Shining Spears
Week 2: Clampack Autarch and Codex
Dark Angels Week 1: Tac Squad and Codex
Week 2: Summer Campaign Book Volume 1: Eldar Admech and DA vs Khorne
Tzeentch Week 1: New Daemon Unit
Week 2: Lord of Change
Week 3: Rubric Marines + Campaign Book Volume 2 (DA, Admech, Eldar, Harlequins + Khorne and Tzeentch)(Including a Tzeentch Daemonkin type supplement + rules for the new units.)
Week 4: Campaign Box: Clampack Sorceror and Chaplain
Assassin Boxed Game Plastic Assassins.
Tau Week1: Campaign Box: Tau vs RG (Plastic Commander and Captain)
Week2: Clampack Ethereal and Codex
And every thing is abit vague after that for me. But after that will be more Admech, Horus Heresy, Space Marines inc; Assault Squad, Sisters, Nurgle and Slaanesh stuff.
That sounds splendid, but am I right in saying that nothing you've predicted has yet come to pass? (In terms of it hasn't happened yet, not that you've been proven wrong)
Azreal13 wrote: That sounds splendid, but am I right in saying that nothing you've predicted has yet come to pass? (In terms of it hasn't happened yet, not that you've been proven wrong)
I said Admech, specifically Skitarii, would come within the year. Voila. I was also the first person to mention Tzeentch and DA stuff this year which was later confirmed by Hastings.
You have a right to be cautious and please do be by all means. But while GW destroy Fantasy (I actually loved the ET series but once I realised it truly was over. Damn...) they're doing everything right in 40k.
I still don't have a good picture on what's going on with Fantasy now so my rumours for 9th will always be abit vague and perhaps a little off. Then again I have little interest in pestering ahem*digging*ahem for info anymore. 40k has an amazing future however...
I'm still standing by what I said originally about a plastic servitor being released for Admech, we'll see it either in the next few weeks or next year.
Genestealers removed would mean that every (exaggeration) Tyranid player there is would be forced to collect another army to use their 40+ models for. Not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, Genestealer Cults were a guaranteed purchase for me, but on the other, that's a lot of models that require another purchased book to even use anymore, on top of the new Codex. Gonna hurt, so I hope they're worth it. And I better be able to paint Zebra stripes on the Limo carrying the Patriarch. If there's no room for Zebra stripes, I'll be pissed.
But, this is Eldar. No room for Zebra stripes on Eldar without looking tacky.
Miguelsan wrote: Codex: Jetbike Where eldar get the same old model but nice a nice increase in price due to the new special rules nobody asked. I'm dying to have jetbikes with fleet and relentless.
M.
I find this the most likely situation from the GW I am familiar with. Even if they get resculpted, they will see an automatic price hike.
That's the problem with wanting plastic Aspects. Do we as Eldar players really want Aspect models that could possibly cost even MORE than the Finecast ones? They are already highway robbery.
I'm not a fan of Genestealer cults, but I'm okay with Genestealers being removed from the main Tyranid book if that means they'll actually be good.
AegisGrimm wrote: That's the problem with wanting plastic Aspects. Do we as Eldar players really want Aspect models that will cost even MORE than the Finecast ones? They are already highway robbery.
WhispererofTruth wrote: Hehe rumour time. Eldar are coming, but that release list? Err no. 40k release list for the next year and abit ahoy!
Spoiler:
Eldar Week1: Plastic Jetbikes/Shining Spears
Week 2: Clampack Autarch and Codex
Dark Angels Week 1: Tac Squad and Codex
Week 2: Summer Campaign Book Volume 1: Eldar Admech and DA vs Khorne
Tzeentch Week 1: New Daemon Unit
Week 2: Lord of Change
Week 3: Rubric Marines + Campaign Book Volume 2 (DA, Admech, Eldar, Harlequins + Khorne and Tzeentch)(Including a Tzeentch Daemonkin type supplement + rules for the new units.)
Week 4: Campaign Box: Clampack Sorceror and Chaplain
Assassin Boxed Game Plastic Assassins.
Tau Week1: Campaign Box: Tau vs RG (Plastic Commander and Captain)
Week2: Clampack Ethereal and Codex
And every thing is abit vague after that for me. But after that will be more Admech, Horus Heresy, Space Marines inc; Assault Squad, Sisters, Nurgle and Slaanesh stuff.
Its a nice list. Why is the first campaign 3 linked groups and the second a bit up in the air ( Raven Guard without dex/supplement ? ) ? Thought everything got some follow up stuff....
WhispererofTruth wrote: Hehe rumour time. Eldar are coming, but that release list? Err no. 40k release list for the next year and abit ahoy!
Spoiler:
Eldar Week1: Plastic Jetbikes/Shining Spears
Week 2: Clampack Autarch and Codex
Dark Angels Week 1: Tac Squad and Codex
Week 2: Summer Campaign Book Volume 1: Eldar Admech and DA vs Khorne
Tzeentch Week 1: New Daemon Unit
Week 2: Lord of Change
Week 3: Rubric Marines + Campaign Book Volume 2 (DA, Admech, Eldar, Harlequins + Khorne and Tzeentch)(Including a Tzeentch Daemonkin type supplement + rules for the new units.)
Week 4: Campaign Box: Clampack Sorceror and Chaplain
Assassin Boxed Game Plastic Assassins.
Tau Week1: Campaign Box: Tau vs RG (Plastic Commander and Captain)
Week2: Clampack Ethereal and Codex
And every thing is abit vague after that for me. But after that will be more Admech, Horus Heresy, Space Marines inc; Assault Squad, Sisters, Nurgle and Slaanesh stuff.
Its a nice list. Why is the first campaign 3 linked groups and the second a bit up in the air ( Raven Guard without dex/supplement ? ) ? Thought everything got some follow up stuff....
For the 2nd half of the list other than what I listed I'm a little hazy on the details. Dates, order etc. Common sense would dictate the new C.SM dex dropping with the box set, but I haven't anything other than: "New Assault Squad." I'm a little reluctant to say this is coming at X time if I'm not even 70% sure. It could also just be down to GW's love of tacking Space Marines onto everything.
For what's worth I heard the story of the campaign was along the lines of this:
Spoiler:
Imperium losing, badly. Forces are RG, IG, Knights, Admech and Assassins vs Tau. Assassins try to kill Ethereal. RG go after Commander. Deathwatch deployed to turn the tide.
Assault Squad is a 100% certainty. Jes was working on it at the time the last codex was released!
That's quite the release schedule, if it pans out to be true it will be quite the year for GW.
If it pans out, I wonder if this will be an Eldar codex supplement or a proper codex. If it's the latter, I'm guessing the nerfs will drastically change the 40k meta.
If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
Splog wrote: Is there a risk that if there are no models for Farseers/Warlocks on jetbikes that these options will be dropped?
Almost certainly.
The smart thing to do would be to include a witchblade, singing spear and Warlock/Farseer torso on the new jetbike sprue... but yeah I don't see that happening.
WhispererofTruth wrote: Hehe rumour time. Eldar are coming, but that release list? Err no. 40k release list for the next year and abit ahoy!
Spoiler:
Eldar Week1: Plastic Jetbikes/Shining Spears
Week 2: Clampack Autarch and Codex
Dark Angels Week 1: Tac Squad and Codex
Week 2: Summer Campaign Book Volume 1: Eldar Admech and DA vs Khorne
Tzeentch Week 1: New Daemon Unit
Week 2: Lord of Change
Week 3: Rubric Marines + Campaign Book Volume 2 (DA, Admech, Eldar, Harlequins + Khorne and Tzeentch)(Including a Tzeentch Daemonkin type supplement + rules for the new units.)
Week 4: Campaign Box: Clampack Sorceror and Chaplain
Assassin Boxed Game Plastic Assassins.
Tau Week1: Campaign Box: Tau vs RG (Plastic Commander and Captain)
Week2: Clampack Ethereal and Codex
And every thing is abit vague after that for me. But after that will be more Admech, Horus Heresy, Space Marines inc; Assault Squad, Sisters, Nurgle and Slaanesh stuff.
I hope half of that (namely the codex parts) isn't true as invalidating codex releases in less than 3 years from first pub is disgusting... yet completely in character with GW given their 7th edition release.
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
I find this the most likely situation from the GW I am familiar with. Even if they get resculpted, they will see an automatic price hike.
That's the problem with wanting plastic Aspects. Do we as Eldar players really want Aspect models that could possibly cost even MORE than the Finecast ones? They are already highway robbery.
I wouldn't say no to more Striking Scorpions if GW keeps the current looks, but to be honest that's the only GW aspect warrior that I use. I have better looking (at least to me) 3rd party miniatures for all the others.
After the debacle of the 6th edition Tyranid codex and how wrong everybody was about it *coughFaeit212cough* I won't believe anything until I see pictures. Rules, units, doesn't matter: pics or they aren't real.
That said, I feel there are two possibilities for Eldar: we either get an expansion to our current codex like Shield of Baal for Tyranids, or a full blown new codex. Honestly, I would prefer the former. I like how GW has been expanding on the minor factions for 40k so far instead of simply repeating the codex release cycle again. Honestly, most of the major changes between 6th and 7th are the formations, and a simple campaign book to provide Eldar with formations would be enough for me.
As far as models go, I would love to see plastic aspect warriors. Scorpion/Spider, Banshee/Hawk, Dragon/Reaper dualkits and a Autarch clamshell would be fine with me.
Also, new plastic jetbikes. The current Windriders are simply hideous.
Miguelsan wrote: I wouldn't say no to more Striking Scorpions if GW keeps the current looks, but to be honest that's the only GW aspect warrior that I use. I have better looking (at least to me) 3rd party miniatures for all the others.
What third party miniatures? Third party Eldar is something sorely lacking, I find.
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
Yeah but Harlequins got removed from Dark Eldar and Eldar dexes. :I
Remember, GW is bloating the 40k verse right now. They're doing what they did back in the Rogue Trader days, giving everything it's own little model and rules.
The question is when the bubble is going to pop...
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
Yeah but Harlequins got removed from Dark Eldar and Eldar dexes. :I
Remember, GW is bloating the 40k verse right now. They're doing what they did back in the Rogue Trader days, giving everything it's own little model and rules.
The question is when the bubble is going to pop...
I've been predicting this since the Scions codex, once the bloat becomes too much for GW to support, it'll likely all go the way of the Squats, which leaves me hesitant to invest in any of the new "spin-off armies". I may just be the crazy doomsayer in the room.
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
Yeah but Harlequins got removed from Dark Eldar and Eldar dexes. :I
Remember, GW is bloating the 40k verse right now. They're doing what they did back in the Rogue Trader days, giving everything it's own little model and rules.
The question is when the bubble is going to pop...
I've been predicting this since the Scions codex, once the bloat becomes too much for GW to support, it'll likely all go the way of the Squats, which leaves me hesitant to invest in any of the new "spin-off armies". I may just be the crazy doomsayer in the room.
Some people have said that GW consider all the hardback codices 'done'. Complete. Finished, and that 7th edition is as solid as they would hope for. We might not see any Codexes get really 'redone', or a new edition for 40k for several years yet.
They've always said they're a miniatures company first, and making lots and lots of plastic miniatures that you can play games with is pretty much what they're doing right now. Rules? Secondary. As long as they keep releasing these splash releases, with new dataslates and formations, and Codices that cover small sections of factions... they may not need to update 7th edition for years and years...
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Actually they weren't... they were only added in late RT days.
Genestealers weren't Tyranids originally, no, but when Tyranids got a list in... I can't remember what WD it was, I have it at home... they were part of the army. Along with Hybrids and Patriarchs and Magi.
I've been predicting this since the Scions codex, once the bloat becomes too much for GW to support, it'll likely all go the way of the Squats, which leaves me hesitant to invest in any of the new "spin-off armies". I may just be the crazy doomsayer in the room.
Squats? Too old of an example. Lost and the Damned and Kroot Mercs might be better comparisons to Scions in any case as they were off shoots of other armies that were expanded upon and then unceremoniously dumped a few years later.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Actually they weren't... they were only added in late RT days.
Genestealers weren't Tyranids originally, no, but when Tyranids got a list in... I can't remember what WD it was, I have it at home... they were part of the army. Along with Hybrids and Patriarchs and Magi.
I could easily see them getting a scion/harlequin type treatment where they get their own book if they are taken out. They don't match the visual look of the other nids for obvious fluff reasons so from that aspect it is understandable but I don't think it's reasonable to do so from a player perspective.
Miguelsan wrote: I wouldn't say no to more Striking Scorpions if GW keeps the current looks, but to be honest that's the only GW aspect warrior that I use. I have better looking (at least to me) 3rd party miniatures for all the others.
What third party miniatures? Third party Eldar is something sorely lacking, I find.
I don't like the GW Eldar looks for the most part. I'm using Urban War figures as Swooping Hawks and Banshees for example.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Actually they weren't... they were only added in late RT days.
Genestealers weren't Tyranids originally, no, but when Tyranids got a list in... I can't remember what WD it was, I have it at home... they were part of the army. Along with Hybrids and Patriarchs and Magi.
And Chaos Space Marines!
Why did they take CSMs out of the Tyranid army list?
They were there from the beginning!
Spoiler:
(I did a retro review of the issue ages ago, it was WD145)
I've been predicting this since the Scions codex, once the bloat becomes too much for GW to support, it'll likely all go the way of the Squats, which leaves me hesitant to invest in any of the new "spin-off armies". I may just be the crazy doomsayer in the room.
Squats? Too old of an example. Lost and the Damned and Kroot Mercs might be better comparisons to Scions in any case as they were off shoots of other armies that were expanded upon and then unceremoniously dumped a few years later.
A whole lot of 3rd edition stuff fits this.
Death Watch
A dozen or more IG regiments (including Catachans who had a full on codex)
Several SM chapters
And, on topic, Harliquins and Craftworld Eldar.
I've said before that at this point GW's next move is likely to be a reboot in the style of RT to 2nd edition or 2nd to 3rd where all existing rules are invalidated.
Not only would it give them a chance to cut away a lot of the fat, but it would give them a lot of new book sales for not much work.
Assuming we didnt all walk away in disgust of course.
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
Yeah but Harlequins got removed from Dark Eldar and Eldar dexes. :I
Remember, GW is bloating the 40k verse right now. They're doing what they did back in the Rogue Trader days, giving everything it's own little model and rules.
The question is when the bubble is going to pop...
Harlequins are still in the current Eldar Codex.
Harlequins were present in the 2nd ed. Eldar Codex as well.
It went - Harlies (2nd), No Harlies (3rd), Harlies (4th/5th), Harlies (6th).
To contrast to Dark Eldar...
No Harlies (3rd), No Harlies (3.5 update), Harlies (5th), No Harlies (7th)
Harlequins were a staple of Eldar but not for Dark Eldar. Similar to Legion of the Damned and Space Marines.
Now, if you want to comparise Tyranids and Genestealers...
Don't. Even the White Dwarf Rogue Trader army list had Genestealers in it. Every incarnation of Tyranids has had Genestealers present and accounted for.
GW have also shown with Khorne Daemonkin that they're not afraid of duplicating units in a codex - Khorne Daemonkin have Chaos Terminators, Bloodletters, Daemon Princes and Spawn. I highly doubt those are all going to disappear from their respective books because of Khorne Daemonkin.
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
Well, they did do the same with Harlequins in the latest DE codex, and all Inquisition units from the Grey Knight codex, so it's not like it's totally unprecedented.
Squidmanlolz wrote: If Genestealers get removed from the main codex, I'll just use my models as Hormagaunts. I don't have any actual Hormagaunt minis since I convert them all to Termagants.
I really like that release schedule, but there's next to nothing that's going to get me to use more than one codex for the same army.
genestealers won't get removed from the 'nid dex just because they're also in the GS cult list. that'd be like removing scions from the AM 'dex because of the Scions 'dex
Yeah but Harlequins got removed from Dark Eldar and Eldar dexes. :I
Remember, GW is bloating the 40k verse right now. They're doing what they did back in the Rogue Trader days, giving everything it's own little model and rules.
The question is when the bubble is going to pop...
If the Genestealer "range" will be expanded, it's *plausible* that they'd break them out like Harlequins so that the same units aren't listed in multiple books, with all the issues that can cause.
Then again...Khorne Daemonkin. *shrug*
Overall I tend to think that Purestrain 'stealers won't be leaving the Tyranid codex, but who can really predict GW's actions these days?
Mymearan wrote: Lords of wargaming have deleted their posts, so there is now no source for these rumors.
Can I get a confirmation on exactly which posts were deleted? I should update the tracker.
Captured by Atia on B&C
These are the original posts from their FB page. I consider these reliable. Do you remove the rumors from the tracker because LoW deleted them, Pretre? It will be interesting to see if these were removed because they are correct
I'm extremely surprised that Eldar are getting re-done. I echo what's been stated on this page. Everything I've heard from sources within and without GW made it seem that they don't intend to update any of the older army books anytime soon, and instead want to focus on adding new armies and supplements.
I'm not sure what re-writing codex Eldar will achieve, unless they're now rapidly trying to remove CADs from list building and move the game to being formation based. I guess they feel that formations sell more models.
Therion wrote: I'm extremely surprised that Eldar are getting re-done. I echo what's been stated on this page. Everything I've heard from sources within and without GW made it seem that they don't intend to update any of the older army books anytime soon, and instead want to focus on adding new armies and supplements.
I'm not sure what re-writing codex Eldar will achieve, unless they're now rapidly trying to remove CADs from list building and move the game to being formation based. I guess they feel that formations sell more models.
Well it might fix Cheese Serpents and Banshees - or likely not.
I'd much rather see stuff Like Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults and Sororitas than yet another Marine Codex or stuff that can be fixed by FAQs - Serpent shield is now range 6" for instance.
It isn't completely impossible that GW consider, or even have evidence to support, that the imbalances brought to the game by the current Eldar book have been sufficient to deter people from continuing to play and therefore spend money, and this is a reaction to that.
There's plenty to suggest this isn't, and never would be, the case, but I wouldn't rule it out completely yet, we have seen what are almost certainly reactions to criticism in the face of falling sales, and this could be another one.
Azreal13 wrote: It isn't completely impossible that GW consider, or even have evidence to support, that the imbalances brought to the game by the current Eldar book have been sufficient to deter people from continuing to play and therefore spend money, and this is a reaction to that.
There's plenty to suggest this isn't, and never would be, the case, but I wouldn't rule it out completely yet, we have seen what are almost certainly reactions to criticism in the face of falling sales, and this could be another one.
I don't want to be rude but that's a ridiculous assumption. There's literally zero chance of that being true. Not only does GW never react to falling sales like that, but I simply can't see anyone succesfully arguing to anyone that 40K is losing popularity because of the Wave Serpent. As if one unit is what's driving people off. Sure, some people worldwide might have quit because of a marginal reason like that, but likewise I'm sure some people have bought entire Eldar armies or collections simply because of wanting to abuse an overpowered unit. Imbalanced units often drive sales instead of hinder them.
If people are losing interest in 40K it has more to do with a bad or inconsistent rule set, Apocalypse units mixed with skirmish units, the cost of models, ever increasing competition from other forms of entertainment, the recession, etc. A few overpowered units have little to zero to do with it, and units like that have always existed in all of GW's game systems. They never hurt sales before, and even if they did, GW never cared.
Games Workshop have rearranged the tab list order of Warhammer 40k armies in their webshop. Eldar - Harlequins - Dark Eldar now are next to each other, so are the Imperial factions and the Chaos ones. Nothing important but another hint at the continuation of Major Faction -> Sub Faction I guess
Also Codex: Eldar (only available in softcover lately) and the Iyanden Supplement (sold-out) are gone/removed from the GWUK webshop as of today. The mini-codex is still there and the iBook edition. Eldar soon? Quite likely so
Mymearan wrote: Lords of wargaming have deleted their posts, so there is now no source for these rumors.
Can I get a confirmation on exactly which posts were deleted? I should update the tracker.
Captured by Atia on B&C
These are the original posts from their FB page. I consider these reliable. Do you remove the rumors from the tracker because LoW deleted them, Pretre? It will be interesting to see if these were removed because they are correct
Perfect. I won't remove them, but I wanted to update the tracker that they were deleted.
Azreal13 wrote: It isn't completely impossible that GW consider, or even have evidence to support, that the imbalances brought to the game by the current Eldar book have been sufficient to deter people from continuing to play and therefore spend money, and this is a reaction to that.
There's plenty to suggest this isn't, and never would be, the case, but I wouldn't rule it out completely yet, we have seen what are almost certainly reactions to criticism in the face of falling sales, and this could be another one.
I don't want to be rude but that's a ridiculous assumption. There's literally zero chance of that being true. Not only does GW never react to falling sales like that, but I simply can't see anyone succesfully arguing to anyone that 40K is losing popularity because of the Wave Serpent. As if one unit is what's driving people off. Sure, some people worldwide might have quit because of a marginal reason like that, but likewise I'm sure some people have bought entire Eldar armies or collections simply because of wanting to abuse an overpowered unit. Imbalanced units often drive sales instead of hinder them.
If people are losing interest in 40K it has more to do with a bad or inconsistent rule set, Apocalypse units mixed with skirmish units, the cost of models, ever increasing competition from other forms of entertainment, the recession, etc. A few overpowered units have little to zero to do with it, and units like that have always existed in all of GW's game systems. They never hurt sales before, and even if they did, GW never cared.
Firstly - there's zero evidence of how GW reacts to falling sales, because it hasn't really happened before, certainly not in the "current age." Additionally, we now have a different personality in the mix, Wells is long gone, Kirby has a revised role, and we've had a new CEO, who, while very much part of the Kirby structure, will still bring a certain approach to things which won't be the same as has gone before.
Secondly I play a lot less 40K now because of Waveserpents, I find the whole army utterly dull to play against, and unfortunately we had several appear after the last book dropped. As a consequence, there has been one less player at my club looking for 40K most weeks, that has meant that someone else has been disappointed if they were looking as for a game, so they have, in turn, moved on to other systems. In the space of three years, my local club has migrated from exclusively GW, almost de facto exclusively 40K, to last week being the first time when not one game of 40K being played and X Wing and Historicals players pretty much equalled the players playing Fantasy.
Is the Waveserpent exclusively responsible for that? No, of course not, but it is one of the most egregious offenders in an already overly strong book, so to dismiss it as "impossible" is a good example of why it is a dumb idea to speak in absolutes on the Internet.
Well, it stands to reason that there isn't a single trigger for a new codex, and that the creative and business opportunities have to intersect.
Perhaps the game designers aren't completely happy with the current Eldar codex; the mini designers have designed some strong new Eldar kits; and the business types are enticed by the sales potential of those kits, the sales potential of a new decurion-style formations, and the opportunity to move more of the range to plastic.
The book should never have made it through play testing as is (yeah, right, play testing!) and while it didn't quite get accused of breaking an edition in the same way as the Mat Ward Daemon Army book does for Fantasy, personally, for me it came close.
A better balanced Eldar book (which is a phrase laden with assumption) would go a long way to reengaging me with the game again, and I can't believe I'm the only one.
Removal of the harlequins from the eldar 'dex seems like a logical thing to do given the recent suppliment - i hope they do the same for militarum tempestus!
I want wraithknights to become a LOW and get a new super-heavy profile for some epic eldar knight vs imperial knight battles!
Then maybe a super-heavy profile for the riptide too?
A man can dream..
*a reassessment of the serpent sheild's range wouldn't go amiss either.
SirDonlad wrote: Removal of the harlequins from the eldar 'dex seems like a logical thing to do given the recent supplement - I hope they do the same for Militarum Tempestus!
Honestly, unless they add the Harlequin options(Skyweaver, Voidweaver, Starweaver, and Solitaire) into Codex: Eldar?
Harlequin are in a bit of a different situation than Tempestus as they actually have units which are new and different in the form of their bikes/transports.
If it were simply the way that they had split Shadowseers/Death Jesters into Elite choices? It wouldn't be hard to continue seeing them as part of C: Eldar. But now I think we might actually see Harlequin cut from Eldar.
I'd like to see Codex: Eldar Harlequins kept, but made slightly different to the Codex: Harlequins Harlequins. It's a fairly sound business strategy; they already have the new models, why not slightly broaden their appeal by making them their own thing in Codex: Eldar? They'd need their own name, of course, like "Dancers" or "Performers" or something else other than a Troupe of Players, but that's not hard.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I'd like to see Codex: Eldar Harlequins kept, but made slightly different to the Codex: Harlequins Harlequins. It's a fairly sound business strategy; they already have the new models, why not slightly broaden their appeal by making them their own thing in Codex: Eldar? They'd need their own name, of course, like "Dancers" or "Performers" or something else other than a Troupe of Players, but that's not hard.
Be extremely odd to just keep them in Codex Eldar when they were taken out of Codex Dark Eldar - also why would GW reduce potential sales of the Harlequins Codex?
I think there is about a 0% chance of Harlequins remaining in the Elder Codex. Also, if they made the Serpent Shield one use only, it would go a long way toward balancing that unit. Regardless, I am not counting on them doing any sort of meaningful balancing. Look at Necrons.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I'd like to see Codex: Eldar Harlequins kept, but made slightly different to the Codex: Harlequins Harlequins. It's a fairly sound business strategy; they already have the new models, why not slightly broaden their appeal by making them their own thing in Codex: Eldar? They'd need their own name, of course, like "Dancers" or "Performers" or something else other than a Troupe of Players, but that's not hard.
Be extremely odd to just keep them in Codex Eldar when they were taken out of Codex Dark Eldar - also why would GW reduce potential sales of the Harlequins Codex?
Harlequins were present in the 2nd ed. Eldar Codex as well.
It went - Harlies (2nd), No Harlies (3rd), Harlies (4th/5th), Harlies (6th).
To contrast to Dark Eldar...
No Harlies (3rd), No Harlies (3.5 update), Harlies (5th), No Harlies (7th)
Harlequins were a staple of Eldar but not for Dark Eldar. Similar to Legion of the Damned and Space Marines.
I don't think it would reduce sales of the Harlequin book. It could encourage people to expand, if they had one squad to field with their Eldar, they'd only need a little more before they can access all the other cool stuff from Codex: Harlequins. On the other side, if you already have Harlequins enough for a Harlequin detachment (or whatever it's called), an additional squad to field for their unique benefits, if you happen to be playing them with Codex: Eldar, means buying more models.
I am starting to get hyped a little about Tzeentch stuff possibily popping up after AdMech, Eldar and DA (?). Exciting.
I don't really care about Elder being nerfed, even though they kick my ass a lot. It makes sense to me that the serpent shield should be shorter range though. I think if Eldar had more aspect rules and kits, we'd see less Serpents sitting back to pewpew. So its a good thing that Eldar gets plastics before, say, Rubric marines. I hope Whispereroftruth is the real deal.
Hm, have we yet seen what happens with a supplement when the mother codex get updated?
It should not be a major issue, but knowing how poorly GW handle balance and fail to anticipate rules interaction, you never know what may pop up with Iyanden.
Perhaps we get a Faq
Fayric wrote: Hm, have we yet seen what happens with a supplement when the mother codex get updated?
It should not be a major issue, but knowing how poorly GW handle balance and fail to anticipate rules interaction, you never know what may pop up with Iyanden.
Perhaps we get a Faq
Or GW could just print new $50 books for the babydexes in the subsequent weeks. I mean, seriously, most of the supplements have so little meat in them that giving them a refresh is probably 75% cosmetic.
Fayric wrote: Hm, have we yet seen what happens with a supplement when the mother codex get updated?
It should not be a major issue, but knowing how poorly GW handle balance and fail to anticipate rules interaction, you never know what may pop up with Iyanden.
Perhaps we get a Faq
As I mentioned before Codex: Eldar (including the new softcover version they started selling in January) and the Iyanden Supplement have been removed from the UKGW webshop. There is only the Eldar mini-format book left, which is probably selling so bad they hope to find a few customers to purchase them now being the only book left. The current Eldar codex will be replaced with a new 7th edition book soon. Codex and Supplement removed is a strong hint towards the new release. The Supplement seems to be gone forever
So how long has the current Eldar Codex been out?! It can't be that long.
If there is a new book out, that means that in four years every 40k army book I have bought from GW has been superseded at least once. Including the rules (I bought AoBR just before 6th ed came out).
To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
The Eldar Codex was released in June 2013. The Necron book was the last 5th ed Codex, it took about 3 years and 3 months to update it (November 2011 -> Jan 2015). The rumored (Lords of War Gaming) Eldar, Space Marine and Tau Codizes (all three books are from 2013) will be the fastest 40k army book updates ever. If you don't count the Space Wolves White Dwarf (156-158) army list in 1992-1993 which was then released in an expanded form in the first 40k Codex (the then new 2nd edition) in 1993. The infamous 5th ed WFB Vampire Counts book was invalidated within a few months with the release of 6th edition and the one-for-all booklet that came with it
It sucks - a Saim-Hann supplement would have been better. And only an errata for the current CWE one
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Are you joking? Have you taken a look at the CSM codex?
Only thing broken in the Eldar codex is Serpent Shield, undercosted Wraithknight, and no assault grenades on banshees.
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MajorStoffer wrote: Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They could easily do that by picking up their FAQ/Errata policy again, but now changing things as they go. Models might even sell better without a new codex update that way!
MajorStoffer wrote: They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Are you joking? Have you taken a look at the CSM codex?
Only thing broken in the Eldar codex is Serpent Shield, undercosted Wraithknight, and no assault grenades on banshees.
Codex Khorne Daemonkin, anyone?
It's a monument, not the monument.
THE monument is a stack consisting of:
Eldar
Tau
Daemons
Imperial Guard
Stormtroopers
Chaos Space Marines
Orks
Sisters of Battle
Black Legion
Daemonkin
Imperial Knights
Sentinels of Terra
Space Wolves
Waaagh Ghazgkull
Champions of Fenris
Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Necrons
Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Inquisition
Codex: Space Marines is pretty good though, centstar and bikerspam aside.
To be fair, Serpents have played a role in every list, and just because they (hopefully) won't be as good doesn't necessarily mean they end up on the junk heap.
It's just that damned shield blast that needs to go.
H.B.M.C. wrote: To be fair, Serpents have played a role in every list, and just because they (hopefully) won't be as good doesn't necessarily mean they end up on the junk heap.
It's just that damned shield blast that needs to go.
Or range reduced. Probably get a points increase as well. As Night Scythe and Anni-barge...
monders wrote: So how long has the current Eldar Codex been out?! It can't be that long.
Monders, meet 7th edition.
7th edition, this is monders. He forgot that there were only 2 years between you and 6th edition.
Oh no, I recall that alright - I'd not long since bought AoBR (5th) and Codex SM and SW, then the new (6) rules came out, then the new (7) rules came out!
Just bad timing for me I suppose, because I'd bought the the Space Marine and Space Wolf codices too, then THEY got updated.
But I'm not here to pish and whine - I welcome new Eldar stuff even though I never got around to playing with my Eldar on account of the rule book changes
MajorStoffer wrote: Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly.
They could easily do that by picking up their FAQ/Errata policy again, but not changing things as they go. Models might even sell better without a new codex update that way!
Exactly. The idea that my purchases from just two years ago are about to be invalidated pisses me off. This, like 7th edition coming out so soon, is nothing but a blatant cash grab. They're not doing this to rebalance books but rather to sell $50 products yet again to prop up sagging sales that are sagging because of exactly this kind of crap they're pulling.
The only reason people would need to sell their WS is if they became point cost prohibitive or limited in game. They are still the primary transport for the army, I doubt they will do either of those things. That is, unless they release some new transport that is more on the order of a Rhino and make tho Wave Serpent the equivalent of the Land Raider in terms of points and whatnot. I'd be willing to bet that they are going to open up the ability to take a WS as either a FA slot or HS slot.
H.B.M.C. wrote: To be fair, Serpents have played a role in every list, and just because they (hopefully) won't be as good doesn't necessarily mean they end up on the junk heap.
It's just that damned shield blast that needs to go.
Or range reduced. Probably get a points increase as well. As Night Scythe and Anni-barge...
Right, let's overcost the only organic transport of the Eldar by 50 points because Necrons... and while we are at it why not move it to HS is not like that slot is overcrowded. Oh I forgot nowadays is all about forging the narrative so I guess we can have the Eldar riding 35pts Rhinos to balance it.
Why? It is our ONLY dedicated transport. The ONLY thing to protect T3 infantry. No matter what kind of nerfs happen, Wave Serpents will always have a place.
If GW gave Eldar a dedicated transport with an assault ramp or open-topped to help get our squishy assault units into combat you would see less serpents.
If GW made the Falcon a dedicated transport option instead of a sub-par choice in a saturated category you would see less Serpents.
Why? It is our ONLY dedicated transport. The ONLY thing to protect T3 infantry. No matter what kind of nerfs happen, Wave Serpents will always have a place.
If GW gave Eldar a dedicated transport with an assault ramp or open-topped to help get our squishy assault units into combat you would see less serpents.
If GW made the Falcon a dedicated transport option instead of a sub-par choice in a saturated category you would see less Serpents.
The Falcon thing wouldn’t even require a new model, just a few lines of text. And would boost sales of a kit I can only assume is lagging. I was surprised it wasn’t made an option in the last codex.
I could also easily see a new viper + venom/starweaver-esque 5 man open topped transport duel kit. Which would help assault units like banshees, as well as drive-by fusion firedragons. The WS is great as a tank, but as a transports it has a number of flaws. Non-assault, no fire ports, expensive, etc. A new DT that actually had some synergy with the guys it was dragging around would do a lot to shelve WSs.
Why? It is our ONLY dedicated transport. The ONLY thing to protect T3 infantry. No matter what kind of nerfs happen, Wave Serpents will always have a place.
If GW gave Eldar a dedicated transport with an assault ramp or open-topped to help get our squishy assault units into combat you would see less serpents.
If GW made the Falcon a dedicated transport option instead of a sub-par choice in a saturated category you would see less Serpents.
The Falcon thing wouldn’t even require a new model, just a few lines of text. And would boost sales of a kit I can only assume is lagging. I was surprised it wasn’t made an option in the last codex.
I could also easily see a new viper + venom/starweaver-esque 5 man open topped transport duel kit. Which would help assault units like banshees, as well as drive-by fusion firedragons. The WS is great as a tank, but as a transports it has a number of flaws. Non-assault, no fire ports, expensive, etc. A new DT that actually had some synergy with the guys it was dragging around would do a lot to shelve WSs.
Giving Eldar a Venom-esque transport would take away from the flavor of the Dark Eldar imo, especially since they already gave one to Harlequins. The factions need to keep their signature units as unique as possible. Also i don't think the Vypers need a new kit, just better rules
Mymearan wrote: Giving Eldar a Venom-esque transport would take away from the flavor of the Dark Eldar imo, especially since they already gave one to Harlequins. The factions need to keep their signature units as unique as possible. Also i don't think the Vypers need a new kit, just better rules
If the rumor is true about getting new jetbikes, then the old viper would look a bit out of place. And if they are re-doing it, why not go with a duel kit, which seems to be all the rage over at GW. And what else could they do with it?
I agree that its rules could be a little better. I still like them, but then, Saim Hann is what drew me to the land of pointy ears. Not a fan of any unit that involves touching the mud, so vipers still have a place in my heart. And lists, once I get a second one painted up.
Highly unlikely, as it's the Eldar's only dedicated transport
Even if they nerfed it to be identical to a Rhino, Wave Serpents would still be useful.
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Sir Arun wrote: GW doing Eldar before Sisters of Battle, before Chaos, before Dark Angels.
>what is wrong with this company
Pretty simple. There are multitudes more Eldar players than CSM, DA, or Sisters. That's all it's about -- CSM get a codex every edition while Sororitas don't because they have a smaller following. Space Marines get some subfaction codex every few months because they are the most popular armies. But in terms of Xenos, I'm pretty sure Eldar are right up there in one of the top spots for popularity.
But hey, at least Chaos got a subfaction codex and a bloodthirster.
Mymearan wrote: Giving Eldar a Venom-esque transport would take away from the flavor of the Dark Eldar imo, especially since they already gave one to Harlequins. The factions need to keep their signature units as unique as possible. Also i don't think the Vypers need a new kit, just better rules
If the rumor is true about getting new jetbikes, then the old viper would look a bit out of place. And if they are re-doing it, why not go with a duel kit, which seems to be all the rage over at GW. And what else could they do with it?
I agree that its rules could be a little better. I still like them, but then, Saim Hann is what drew me to the land of pointy ears. Not a fan of any unit that involves touching the mud, so vipers still have a place in my heart. And lists, once I get a second one painted up.
Well, yeah, but they still need a full size transport, a la Raider -- in my opinion, one of the nicest models for a DT made by GW.
Talys wrote: Well, yeah, but they still need a full size transport, a la Raider -- in my opinion, one of the nicest models for a DT made by GW.
Heck, all the Dark Eldar stuff looks awesome! I don't think there's a model in their range I don't like! (Except maybe the Razorwing Flock- robbing gaks)
Pretty simple. There are multitudes more Eldar players than CSM, DA, or Sisters. That's all it's about
Sad thing is its a self fulfilling prophercy - Focus on particula ranges exclusively and wierd thing is they get more people buying them - be interesting to see how the Skitarri range go - an army people have been screaming for for years, good models - at least its not yet another "oh so dfifferently coloured Marine Codex"
If guardians stay bs 4 Laser lock needs to go. You have enough shots without needing to twin link everything.
You put them back to bs 3 as a non fighting path eldar would be according to the fluff then you can have laser lock for a good 30 points per vehicle.
Fluff says when they leave the aspect and pick a new path they pit themselves so fully into their new path that they would lose any talent they had in the old. And the non aspect warriors are scared of the aspect warriors and even revolted by them especially when they have their war mask on. In short guardians should not have trained fighter bs and ws
H.B.M.C. wrote: To be fair, Serpents have played a role in every list, and just because they (hopefully) won't be as good doesn't necessarily mean they end up on the junk heap.
It's just that damned shield blast that needs to go.
Or range reduced. Probably get a points increase as well. As Night Scythe and Anni-barge...
Right, let's overcost the only organic transport of the Eldar by 50 points because Necrons... and while we are at it why not move it to HS is not like that slot is overcrowded. Oh I forgot nowadays is all about forging the narrative so I guess we can have the Eldar riding 35pts Rhinos to balance it.
I agree that the shield needs to be changed tho.
M.
Seems I hit a nerve. I didn't increase the points on Necron stuff, GW did.
Pretty simple. There are multitudes more Eldar players than CSM, DA, or Sisters. That's all it's about
Sad thing is its a self fulfilling prophercy - Focus on particula ranges exclusively and wierd thing is they get more people buying them - be interesting to see how the Skitarri range go - an army people have been screaming for for years, good models - at least its not yet another "oh so dfifferently coloured Marine Codex"
It's hard to believe how mishandled CSM have been considering how popular SM are.
We've been begging for legion books since 3rd. Even god specific ones would have been great until we saw the current one :/
I had the same thought - why have the eldar not made an assault transport?
I ratrionalized it by considering how long the eldar have had to mess around growing wriathbone and eventually (like the ak-47 and it's variants) you get a known shape which just works better than any other.
That explains the common chassis shape (it's a bit like the rhino and it's variants) but not the lack of assault craft.
But i wonder if we would still use assualt craft if we had loads of jetbikes?
I hope GW doesn't change the Wave Serpent at all. I'd actually enjoy if they actually buffed the Wave Serpent, for example reducing the points cost and keeping the rules the same.
That would finally put the idea to rest that GW is interested in this micro level game balance or that stuff like that dictates their release policy.
I can't think of any other reason for an accelerated release schedule for the old army books than that the new codex will be similar to the Necron one: Almost completely void of any art, especially new stuff, and just filled with photos of the units, and an army list that's mostly a compilation of formations as opposed to the old 100% CAD based approach. If they don't have to pay for any new art or background material then it's very profitable for them to force sell people new rules all the time.
Therion wrote: I hope GW doesn't change the Wave Serpent at all. I'd actually enjoy if they actually buffed the Wave Serpent, for example reducing the points cost and keeping the rules the same.
That would finally put the idea to rest that GW is interested in this micro level game balance or that stuff like that dictates their release policy.
I can't think of any other reason for an accelerated release schedule for the old army books than that the new codex will be similar to the Necron one: Almost completely void of any art, especially new stuff, and just filled with photos of the units, and an army list that's mostly a compilation of formations as opposed to the old 100% CAD based approach.
Buff the Wave Serpent? Why would anyone at all consider buffing one of the most decidedly overpowered units in the entire game? If the Eldar dex were to follow the Necron's lead, I'd imagine the Serpent would stay nearly identical to where it is currently.
Therion wrote: I hope GW doesn't change the Wave Serpent at all. I'd actually enjoy if they actually buffed the Wave Serpent, for example reducing the points cost and keeping the rules the same.
That would finally put the idea to rest that GW is interested in this micro level game balance or that stuff like that dictates their release policy.
I can't think of any other reason for an accelerated release schedule for the old army books than that the new codex will be similar to the Necron one: Almost completely void of any art, especially new stuff, and just filled with photos of the units, and an army list that's mostly a compilation of formations as opposed to the old 100% CAD based approach.
Buff the Wave Serpent? Why would anyone at all consider buffing one of the most decidedly overpowered units in the entire game? If the Eldar dex were to follow the Necron's lead, I'd imagine the Serpent would stay nearly identical to where it is currently.
what he's actually saying is he hopes GW gives him a reason to quit the game
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents. Get over it. I am sure they will be brought in line with the new book. Now Chaos on the other hand.... They need some serious love. That, along with Dark Angels, are the worst books GW has put out for 6th/7th.
I would not mind it if they nerfed the shield and lowered the point cost. 4th edition serpents really drained your budget (well, they still drain your budget, but its worth it )
Adding 130 points/unit to get the only dedicated transport is no fun.
I see two possible reasons for the new release so soon:
Either they want to bring the psychic user up to date with the 7th edition rules (fix warlocks and psychic flyers) and dont change alot of other stuf.
Or, they have some big change planed and decide to update some codex to prevent a big clash.
Simple fix for Wave Serpent shield that does not necessitate a huge overall change?
Remove the "Ignores Cover" part of it.
I mean, how does an ordnance barrage from the Master of Ordnance not ignore cover, but a random shield firing from a Wave Serpent does?
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents.
translation - I love playing with Cheese Serpents and winning without skill.............
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents.
translation - I love playing with Cheese Serpents and winning without skill.............
translation - people need to man up and deal with it.
Honestly as someone who has to deal with some of the stuff Eldar have available from forge world, I actually am happy when I see Waveserpents on the field, as compared to what else they could have brought.
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents. Get over it. I am sure they will be brought in line with the new book. Now Chaos on the other hand.... They need some serious love. That, along with Dark Angels, are the worst books GW has put out for 6th/7th.
Did I mentioned Wave Serpents? No.
The book as a whole is poorly designed, with units like Wraithknights, Serpents and Bikes being extremely powerful well in excess of their points cost, while also having Wraithblades, Howling Banshees and Falcons which no one uses. The book being more powerful than its peers is only one part of the problem, gakky internal design is still very important. CSM and DA are also awful, but the fact is weak books hurt the game as a whole less than dominating ones; a weak book sucks for the person playing them, an overpowered book sucks for everyone playing against them.
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents.
translation - I love playing with Cheese Serpents and winning without skill.............
translation - people need to man up and deal with it.
Total and complete rubbish - the old LTP argument - usually from WAAC players using the cheesiest combinations and then having the gall to claim some degree of skill.............. perhaps they should LTP rather than use broken rules as a crutch for their own inadequacies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: To be fair, Serpents have played a role in every list, and just because they (hopefully) won't be as good doesn't necessarily mean they end up on the junk heap.
It's just that damned shield blast that needs to go.
Or range reduced. Probably get a points increase as well. As Night Scythe and Anni-barge...
Right, let's overcost the only organic transport of the Eldar by 50 points because Necrons... and while we are at it why not move it to HS is not like that slot is overcrowded. Oh I forgot nowadays is all about forging the narrative so I guess we can have the Eldar riding 35pts Rhinos to balance it.
I agree that the shield needs to be changed tho.
M.
Seems I hit a nerve. I didn't increase the points on Necron stuff, GW did.
It didn't hit a nerve. It's that I hate when the only solution to an "overpowered" unit seems to be nerf it beyond recognition without taking into account how such unit works withiin the army. And before the crazy good shield of doom, Wave Serpents were overcosted by 20 or so points being the only dedicated transport of the Eldar Codex able to carry more than 6 figures.
Currently they are the only Dedicated Transport, period. *And* the only CW Eldar transport with more than 6 capacity. Two quite separate constraints!
In an army where most of our units are t3, frequently with 4+ or worse. And many of our units can't be taken small enough to fit inside a 6-cap vehicle.
Combined with mostly short-range infantry weapons (mostly 12").
And a lack of ways to give deployment shenanigans to most of our infantry.
Imagine if they cut redundant aspects. I mean we all know finecast is vanishing, and there is no way every aspect gets a kit, dual or not. I can see a spider/scorpian, fdradon/reaper or hawk/banshee, but then you still need bikes/spears and warlocks/jetlocks as well as rangers.... I hate to say it, but I expect a few units to get culled entirely and maybe tossed to FW.
On the bright side, GW cut some stuff from the nid codex and then gave it back when models were available. With PDF rules for free on the website. So even if no-plastic=axe, there is hope things will return.
I don't really care if points are adjusted, powerful units brought back into line etc, as long as they don't start simply chopping units. I have an Iyanden force that I really haven't used that much. Since the WG/WL/WK are all plastic I don't see that being the case. I do have a single waveserpent, but haven't fielded it yet. Currently adding some harlequins to the force to give me some speed.
I have a feeling that is this book is real, the scatter laser will get a change as it is an auto-take in may lists. A simple solution would be to allow it to fire a burst as normal or a single shot that allows other weapons to be twin-linked if it hits.
Even if you just go by how this thread has played out, the Wave Serpent is a real no-win situation for GW and Eldar as a faction. It doesn't matter if they buff it, nerf it, or do absolutely nothing, there will be tears and anger from either side of the fence. Frankly I'm sick of the whole situation: even if they replaced it wholesale, it would still be compared to the wave serpent in retrospect and the hate train would keep on rolling.
Forget GW: it's players' poisonous attitudes that are "ruining" the game here.
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents.
translation - I love playing with Cheese Serpents and winning without skill.............
translation - people need to man up and deal with it.
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents.
translation - I love playing with Cheese Serpents and winning without skill.............
translation - people need to man up and deal with it.
Exactly!!
I refer you to my earlier statement - do you actually play against Wave Serpents or just choose whatever cheese is flavour of the month in order to win?
I saw it mentioned in another thread, but don’t think it’s been said here:
Jetbikes are gone from the GW site. Not that this is necessarily indicative of anything, but it’s something. It also looks like the bike autarch, spears, and cannon upgrade packs are MIA.
Nevelon wrote: On the bright side, GW cut some stuff from the nid codex and then gave it back when models were available. With PDF rules for free on the website. So even if no-plastic=axe, there is hope things will return.
But we can always doom-say later.
In the Eldar sphere of things Dark Eldar Kept some finecast at the same time as loosing characters without models and switching Wracks to Plastic.
The Court of the Archon, Incubi and Mandrakes are still Finecast.
No Plastic =/= Axe or does not automatically mean an Axe from the next codex for all ranges.
Given DE has such a small poorly selling range, it's somewhat more understandable. Eldar's finecast adventure has also left some sub-par sculpts and poor production faults that from what I hear are mostly avoided by players. On from that the WAAC players don't really go for the finecast either, so it's not a loss there either.
Bikes are the way the rumour winds, and fanboy love is blowing. But this doesn't mean a kit is coming until it's a more solid rumour, and then there's the WD pics.
Right now Ad Mech launch has barely given it's full details or hinted at more than Skitarii yet. And the first units drop this week. (?)
Hell yesterday I strolled through the only GW store in Ireland, during the Easter Break paint-a-thon for kiddies, and there was little Khorne Deamonkin around, or new Carry Case's. The Mad swinging Fantasy Khorne guys were still only just based in red and not even given much love.
The hobby doesn't move as fast for everyone online, some people still have mountainous back logs of work to do. Let alone dream of fixing an over powered army in one fell swoop that is a panacea for all perceived game mechanic ills in 40k.
Nevelon wrote: On the bright side, GW cut some stuff from the nid codex and then gave it back when models were available. With PDF rules for free on the website. So even if no-plastic=axe, there is hope things will return.
But we can always doom-say later.
In the Eldar sphere of things Dark Eldar Kept some finecast at the same time as loosing characters without models and switching Wracks to Plastic.
The Court of the Archon, Incubi and Mandrakes are still Finecast.
Necron Codex this year still had finecast Flayers. Daemonkin has finecast Flesh Hounds. Etc..
GW might not make any new finecast, but it'll be many years before the last finecast miniatures are cycled out of their catalog.
I guess we should wait until they are still true tomorrow (it being April 1st and all..) but apparently there are many new re-directs on the GW website that spill the beans for Eldar (coming soon!)
MajorStoffer wrote: To be fair, the current book is awful, a monument to GW's writing incompetence.
Honestly, it's a perfect representation why a company with such mediocre writing talent should move to a "living ruleset" with some sort of feedback mechanism so things could be adjusted and updated on the fly. of course, that is predicated on them not being evil.
They'd much rather sell you a still broken, but different broken codex as often as possible!
Your tears are delicious! I love hearing people cry about Wave Serpents.
translation - I love playing with Cheese Serpents and winning without skill.............
translation - people need to man up and deal with it.
Exactly!!
I refer you to my earlier statement - do you actually play against Wave Serpents or just choose whatever cheese is flavour of the month in order to win?
I do play both against and with Wave Serpents. As for flavor of the month, who the hell can afford to play that way? I think every one of the strong books( Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Marines) have units that are a pain in the ass to deal with. Figure out how to deal with them and move on. Also, if you're playing against total dicks that are using spam lists, find new opponents. And in regards to your previous statement, I don't run Serpent spam. And since when has winning in 40k had anything to do with skill? It's whomever spends the most, min maxes the most and how lucky you get.
Please don't attach nonwargaming images to Dakka.
Reds8n
Someone more savvy than I can explain it to you, but what you posted isn't an actual redirect. Note the difference when you try and enter: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/eldar-avatar versus your made up link. In the case I posted, Eldar and Avatar get capitalized.
Someone more savvy than I can explain it to you, but what you posted isn't an actual redirect. Note the difference when you try and enter: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/eldar-avatar versus your made up link. In the case I posted, Eldar and Avatar get capitalized.
This is the method people used to find out about the entire Skitarii release list several weeks ago.
Ok, I see how that works, it effectively autocorrects the URL to the page that "does not exist" rather than simply throwing up an error page for an address that really doesn't exist.
Still, the absence of the Codex from the site (and it is missing, not simply sold out) probably suggests a new Codex, perhaps renamed Craftworld Eldar, rather than a supplement.
I get exactly the same page return whether i click on Az's made up link or the eldar avatar one. urls are also exactly the same (except for the avatar/squats ending of course)
What surprises me is how soon this is happening! The Skitarii redirects popped up just weeks before the release itself. Now, with so much missing on the website, and these redirects being activated, this Eldar release is right around the corner. If next week is when we see the Onager Dunecrawler kit, the following week could be Eldar. Just two weeks away.
Azreal13 wrote: Better putting thread page numbers than dates dude, much easier to find.
Is moving every scrap of legitimate rumor onto the OP incorrect?
I am attempting to give a sense of progression.
No, do what you want to, I meant you'd changed the thread title to the date of the update, I'd either say "OP updated x/x" or "shiny new thing, page X" to make people aware both when and where new info is available and can be found.
pretre wrote: Hhmmm. Thoughts on the craft worlds part?
It would be too much to hope that Eldar would get 'Craftworld Tactics' like the Space Marine Chapter Tactics, but... what really stands out to me is the slew of different paint web-bundles. That's really impressive, and hints at a higher delineation between different Craftworlds.
Matching Codex Eldar: Craftworlds also simply matches Codex Eldar: Harlequins... but it's not like they have Codex Eldar: Dark Eldar... it's weird.
I'm pretty excited about this. If we get a plastic avatar (but that was something I hadn't heard yet) AND new jetbikes, I'm not sure my psyche could take it!
Could it be something like this? It would be an interesting format to re-introduce, though I doubt they would (why sell one book when they could sell five?).
Frozen Ocean wrote: Could it be something like this? It would be an interesting format to re-introduce, though I doubt they would (why sell one book when they could sell five?).
This would actually be pretty cool, if each army got an expansion allowing players to better customize their lists to suit the fluff of their faction. An expansion gave the IG options similar to what was in the 4th ed codex, an expansion for Dark Eldar Kabals and Cults, an expansion for the different Tyranid fleets, etc.
"WraithKnight gaining weight" may be a reference to them becoming a Gargantuan creature instead of a Jump MC. It better NOT become a LOW, unless they IMMEDIATLY re-release the Imp Knight codex and make those LOWs as well.
Frozen Ocean wrote: Could it be something like this? It would be an interesting format to re-introduce, though I doubt they would (why sell one book when they could sell five?).
The question is, "Can Eldar sell five Codex books?"
It costs money to develop, lay out, assemble, print, stock, ship, and carry each book they develop. If they can't sell five books consistently, there's a lot of wasted money along the way. Space Marines get 5 books because they'll sell five books. If anything, it's possible that they had 5 Eldar books planned, and then Iyanden didn't make as much money as they hoped, so the rest got shelved.
Thank you for consolidating all the rumor info onto the first page.
I'm very excited for this to come out. I've been running a very similar Mechdar list since 5th edition, so it will be fun to figure out how to tweak it for the new codex. I'd love to bring my Vypers back out. Currently, Hornets are a much better buy for the points that I've not played Vypers for a few years now.
After painting another 9 Eldar Jetbikes, I'm a little leary of new ones coming out, only because I know I will want to replace all my newly painted ones.
Nevelon wrote: On the bright side, GW cut some stuff from the nid codex and then gave it back when models were available. With PDF rules for free on the website. So even if no-plastic=axe, there is hope things will return.
But we can always doom-say later.
I can see this happening only if they cut out models with no rules, or models that are finecast that they are ditching for later.
As for the whole
It's gonna be every 2 years guys!
I wouldn't even start on that until everybody's on track with 7th. (We still haven't seen much of the new cron codex locally, we've got one player that just started cron's and our other player hasn't been able to afford the new codex yet. ) So far, all the other codex's have been pretty much bringing everything into balance, right? I'd just expect to see that trend to continue..unless they're throwing everything the format out again, and they started something new with the cron dex....
From what I understand the jetbikes are really old models, so I can see those being redone, and I know there's no way to get a farseer on a jetbike unless you kitbash it yourself.
I think it'd be interesting to see a craftworlds supplement come out for the eldar...although they already have one supplement...I dunno if that would still be valid or if they would just replace it.
As for the whole genestealers going away and going straight into genestealer cults for nids and those being entire "armies". I can only see 'stealers going away if Genestealer Cults is going to be it's own seperate army and it's going to be BB for 'nids.
There are formations just for genestealers already out there. There's a unique broodlord model they just put out. There's no way they're just going to drop the models.
I know a bunch of old school vets are pretty excited about the idea of genestealer cults coming back..but I don't want to have to buy more stuff for 'nids.
Right now, if you want everything (ruleswise) to run 'nids you need:
3 dataslates from black library (or just buy the bundle), 'nid codex, shield of baal:leviathan,
I really don't want genestealers being taken out of tyranids and GW going "here, buy one more codex for your genestealer models!, and you get to run some other cool stuff like it was back in the day!"
Schlyne wrote: So far, all the other codex's have been pretty much bringing everything into balance, right? I'd just expect to see that trend to continue..unless they're throwing everything the format out again, and they started something new with the cron dex....
Aita from B&C is doing a great job checking the URLs. It is indeed very helpful. It could be that her Avatar predictions are wrong though. There is at least the chance this is the finecast one getting a new box - better carefull with getting hopes up
According the Craftworld name, this is probably caused by
Adeptus Astartes - Blood Angels
Eldar - Harlequins
It would sound stupid to name it Eldar - Eldar. I would not read much into it. The paint bundles are exactly like the Tyranid ones were. Nothing surprising
Warhams-77 wrote: Aito from B&C is doing a great job checking the URLs. It is indeed very helpful. It could be that here Avatar predictions are wrong though. There is at least the chance this is the finecast one getting a new box - better carefull with this specific one.
According the Craftworld name, this is probably causedvby
Astra Militarum - Blood Angels
Eldar - Harlequins
It would sound stupid to name it Eldar - Eldar. I would notbread much into it. The paint bundles are exactly like the Tyranid ones were. Nothing surprising
Wilson wrote: Wraithknight will become LOW( my own wish)
NO, just NO. Imperial Knights are not LOW and they are worse offenders than WraithKnights. If the WK becomes a LOW, it will have to be a Gargantuan Creatures and that would either make them more OP than they are now, or make them so expensive that they would become unplayable.
Wilson wrote: Wraithknight will become LOW( my own wish)
NO, just NO. Imperial Knights are not LOW and they are worse offenders than WraithKnights. If the WK becomes a LOW, it will have to be a Gargantuan Creatures and that would either make them more OP than they are now, or make them so expensive that they would become unplayable.
Imperial Knights are not LoW because they're part of their own Codex.
If there were a Codex: Wraithknight, you would have a point. But since Logan Grimnar, Imotekh, Ghazghkull Thraka, and more are all LoW--there's no reason why the Wraithknight couldn't be.
Wilson wrote: Wraithknight will become LOW( my own wish)
NO, just NO. Imperial Knights are not LOW and they are worse offenders than WraithKnights. If the WK becomes a LOW, it will have to be a Gargantuan Creatures and that would either make them more OP than they are now, or make them so expensive that they would become unplayable.
The Wraithknight is really not overpowered. That's not to say that Eldar are not, though.
I would love it to be made a Gargantuan (and priced accordingly, of course), because the rules aren't anywhere near as impressive as the model would suggest.
Making the wraithknight an eldar knight-titan is where it should have been in the first instance.
Having it as an MC just leaves it with a wildly skewed statline compared to the threats it will face while still being susceptible to 'instand death' strikes. (just how does that work against enclosed machinery?)
SirDonlad wrote: Making the wraithknight an eldar knight-titan is where it should have been in the first instance.
Having it as an MC just leaves it with a wildly skewed statline compared to the threats it will face while still being susceptible to 'instand death' strikes. (just how does that work against enclosed machinery?)
I don't really think they are LOW material, when you have things like the eldar titans available for that stuff. Although they could just make it a mini-titian like the IKs.
Just my thoughts: Make it a Gargantuan creature, LoW, the sword a D-Weapon and rise point costs accordingly. Make them as strong as the Exodite Knights used to be, maybe even add the 'eye attack' they had or other upgrades. Then go with a 3 Knights-formation and people can still play with their current armies (whoever thinks 3 Knights is a good strategy).
I am not confident at the moment that the Serpent and/or the Wraithknight will be changed as much as people imagine it will. Necrons weren't nerfed either.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I don't really think they are LOW material, when you have things like the eldar titans available for that stuff. Although they could just make it a mini-titian like the IKs.
The same argument could be made for Ghazghkull Thraka, and yet he's a LoW.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I don't really think they are LOW material, when you have things like the eldar titans available for that stuff. Although they could just make it a mini-titian like the IKs.
The same argument could be made for Ghazghkull Thraka, and yet he's a LoW.
That really has no meaning to the conversation. That's a problem with the ork codex, not the eldar one.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I don't really think they are LOW material, when you have things like the eldar titans available for that stuff. Although they could just make it a mini-titian like the IKs.
The same argument could be made for Ghazghkull Thraka, and yet he's a LoW.
That really has no meaning to the conversation. That's a problem with the ork codex, not the eldar one.
Logan Grimnar is a LoW as well.
And Imotekh.
It actually does have a meaning for the conversation, in that GW has been going out of their way of late to move items to the LoW slot which they feel do not necessarily "fit" in standard games.
The second part of that move is that it was an attempt to make LoWs more widely accepted by having the slot not just encompass things like Baneblades or Lords of Skulls but also include named characters.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I don't really think they are LOW material, when you have things like the eldar titans available for that stuff. Although they could just make it a mini-titian like the IKs.
The same argument could be made for Ghazghkull Thraka, and yet he's a LoW.
That really has no meaning to the conversation. That's a problem with the ork codex, not the eldar one.
Logan Grimnar is a LoW as well.
And Imotekh.
It actually does have a meaning for the conversation, in that GW has been going out of their way of late to move items to the LoW slot which they feel do not necessarily "fit" in standard games.
The second part of that move is that it was an attempt to make LoWs more widely accepted by having the slot not just encompass things like Baneblades or Lords of Skulls but also include named characters.
Just because GW is doing something, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. I don't think that named characters should be LOW. Or at least if they are, they should be buffed to be a big guy.
I'd really be in favor of making the Wraithknight a Gargantuan Creature - there's no reason why it shouldn't be. It'd give the Wraithlord a better role.
Being a LOW wouldn't mean you can only take one, either - the Eldar 'Great Host' or whatever Decurion style detachment will probably have an Auxiliary choice of a Wraithknight.
Honestly, the main reason I want the wraithknight to become a superheavy or GMC is so I don't have to worry about a lucky stomp roll from tyranid gargantuan creatures who are literally half his size.
Though to be fair, I did make my own superheavy version with my V.D.R. update. (Link in SIG)
SirDonlad wrote: If it was controlled by spirit stones like a wraithlord i could see that working, but isn't the wraithknight piloted? something about twins?
The Wraithknight is piloted by "both the living and the dead". One of the twins is still alive and the other is deceased.
SirDonlad wrote: If it was controlled by spirit stones like a wraithlord i could see that working, but isn't the wraithknight piloted? something about twins?
The Wraithknight is piloted by "both the living and the dead". One of the twins is still alive and the other is deceased.
“Deceased” is such a harsh word. They prefer “Spiritstone enabled"
SirDonlad wrote: If it was controlled by spirit stones like a wraithlord i could see that working, but isn't the wraithknight piloted? something about twins?
The Wraithknight is piloted by "both the living and the dead". One of the twins is still alive and the other is deceased.
“Deceased” is such a harsh word. They prefer “Spiritstone enabled"
I would actually be totally down for seeing the Avatar become a badass LoW; thing has been "meh" for as long as I've been playing. However, things becoming LoW don't imply much, if any, rules changes.
Wraithknight needs a solid kick in the pants in terms of points or capacity, however. Jump T8 MC with guns of "just remove the models" is, well, unpleasent. Especially when it costs less than a Leman Russ tank commander.
lord_blackfang wrote: GW don't tend to make units everyone owns in multiples a 0-1 choice all of a sudden.
I know this is going to sound catty, but:
“Just play unbound!”
GW has a long history of taking the thing you own lots of and making them shelf-bait, forcing you to buy a bunch of the latest hotness. Going 0-1 is a little harsh, yes. But that’s just a FOC restriction, which is not very relevant in 7th.
Nevelon wrote: Eldar have a number of things that could be moved to the LOW slot.
Eldrad Avatar WK
That's a lot of LoW models for faction (in the sense that they compete for the single LoW slot). There's still Revenant too. I think they'd have to look at it as which ones become an either/or situation, and which ones someone would like to put on the table at the same time.
Nevelon wrote: Eldar have a number of things that could be moved to the LOW slot.
Eldrad
Avatar
WK
That's a lot of LoW models for faction (in the sense that they compete for the single LoW slot). There's still Revenant too. I think they'd have to look at it as which ones become an either/or situation, and which ones someone would like to put on the table at the same time.
I'm totally up for a BT sized Avatar!!
Considering what it’s supposed to be (a fragment of a war god) if they gave the Avatar a rules bump and a new mini on par with the BT, it could be awesome, and fit nicely into GW’s “gota have a big kit” release pattern. And probably sell like hotcakes.
As a plus it would make all the times it dies like a chump in the BL books/other fluff that more impressive if the tiny old model gets replaced with an 8” tall walking deity.
I agree that the Avatar would make sense as a Lord of War.
Now that it's being redone in plastic, with a new codex to pimp a new stat line, I'm afraid we can look forward to a $115 Avatar model that's 6-9" tall.
Nevelon wrote: Eldar have a number of things that could be moved to the LOW slot.
Eldrad
Avatar
WK
Given that C'Tan (which are more or less the same concept as an Avatar) and Bloodthirsters were not moved to the LoW slot, I seriously doubt the Avatar will be. Eldrad is almost a certainty to be moved to LoW. The WK would need a major rules rewrite to slip into that category. Personally, I think it should be a SH Walker as is, no dramatic changes to the weapons, and be left as a Heavy Support (they did the same for the Necron Super Heavies). Of course, the price would need to be adjusted accordingly.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I actually strongly believe that the Greater Demons will take the LoW slot whenever the CD book gets updated.
They didn't in Khorne Daemonkin.
The LoW designation is starting to become irrelevent anyway, since the formations allow any number of the non-unique character ones. I can take 9 Lords of Skulls in the Blood Host formation if I recall.
Logan, Imotekh, and Ghaz are LoW because of their storyline importance, I think (Logan might only be leader of one "Space Marine Chapter", but given the Space Wolves' make-up, he's more like a Chapter Master of Chapter Masters). At least, I hope that's the reasoning because points-wise, they don't make much sense in that slot compared to a titan or baneblade (except Logan on his sled). I always found it stupid that Ghaz and Imotekh weren't given something to bump them up to LoW calibur like Logan was with his sled, really.
I thought Knights were an LoW option for many Imperial Armies? Just not the Knight codex, itself. Or am I mistaken?
Fluff-wise, they really need to look at rarity as a basis of LoW, IMHO. Are Greater Demons about as rare as Titans? (probably, I think?) How about Daemon Princes? (um...maybe?). Wraith knights? (...I honestly have no idea). Avatars of Khaine are one per craft world and only called upon in emergencies so they'd make sense as an LoW,.
Honestly though, once you get too many LoWs, the designation starts to lose meaning. If everyone's a super, no one is.
Anyone else remember in Magic: The Gathering when Wizards of the Coast started screwing around with using "Legendary" as an actual rules mechanic for cards, and then started throwing around all kinds of Legendary cards?
That's not what you want to start happening to Lords of War.
I'm honestly not sure what the logic is behind the Lords of War concept right now. Ghazghkull is a Lord of War, but there are lots of other unique, special characters that aren't. Why? No reason I can think of, really.
From a fluff perspective, I could definitely see the Avatar being a Lord of War. But there's lots of other models and characters that have been updated in the past year which still aren't Lords of War and I would have said the same thing about those units.
The Avatar might make more sense as a Lord of War because from a fluff perspective, an Avatar is not actually going to be leading an Eldar army. The Avatar is more of a living weapon. Most special characters fit in best as leaders, and thus work very well as HQ units.
But again, you can say that for Ghazghkull, and why is he a Lord of War? He should be an HQ, he's the best "leader" the Orks have!
I hope we get an updated avatar that is bigger from GW. I use my FW model all the time because I think it is cooler even though it is a disadvantage for me.
adamsouza wrote: Space Wolves - Character LOW
Orks - Character LOW
Dark Eldar - ?
Grey Knights - Character LOW
Blood Angels - Character LOW
Necrons - Character LOW
I'm sensing a pattern in the 7E codexes
So if that is a patteren, what is the next FULL codex that will not have a LOW and be a ? ?
Wilson wrote: Wraithknight will become LOW( my own wish)
NO, just NO. Imperial Knights are not LOW and they are worse offenders than WraithKnights. If the WK becomes a LOW, it will have to be a Gargantuan Creatures and that would either make them more OP than they are now, or make them so expensive that they would become unplayable.
Imperial Knights are not LoW because they're part of their own Codex.
If there were a Codex: Wraithknight, you would have a point. But since Logan Grimnar, Imotekh, Ghazghkull Thraka, and more are all LoW--there's no reason why the Wraithknight couldn't be.
The reason the WK shouldn't be LOW is because of the examples you just listed. Eldar have Eldrad, the Avatar, and all 6 Phoenix Lords. All are more appropriate LOW candidates.
I would like to see a special LOW slot that allows 1-3 Phoenix Lords, since they seem to arrive in 3's in most fluff
Wilson wrote: Wraithknight will become LOW( my own wish)
NO, just NO. Imperial Knights are not LOW and they are worse offenders than WraithKnights. If the WK becomes a LOW, it will have to be a Gargantuan Creatures and that would either make them more OP than they are now, or make them so expensive that they would become unplayable.
Imperial Knights are not LoW because they're part of their own Codex.
If there were a Codex: Wraithknight, you would have a point. But since Logan Grimnar, Imotekh, Ghazghkull Thraka, and more are all LoW--there's no reason why the Wraithknight couldn't be.
The reason the WK shouldn't be LOW is because of the examples you just listed. Eldar have Eldrad, the Avatar, and all 6 Phoenix Lords. All are more appropriate LOW candidates.
I would like to see a special LOW slot that allows 1-3 Phoenix Lords, since they seem to arrive in 3's in most fluff
You forget that the Ork book also has the Stompa as a LoW.
adamsouza wrote:Space Wolves - Character LOW
Orks - Character LOW
Dark Eldar - ?
Grey Knights - Character LOW
Blood Angels - Character LOW
Necrons - Character LOW
I'm sensing a pattern in the 7E codexes
Actually, Blood Angels got TWO Characters as LoW, both are chapter masters. They're so rare that they wouldn't be seen on the battlefield in most circumstances, but in larger battles, there's a chance they appear.
adamsouza wrote:Space Wolves - Character LOW
Orks - Character LOW
Dark Eldar - ?
Grey Knights - Character LOW
Blood Angels - Character LOW
Necrons - Character LOW
I'm sensing a pattern in the 7E codexes
Actually, Blood Angels got TWO Characters as LoW, both are chapter masters. They're so rare that they wouldn't be seen on the battlefield in most circumstances, but in larger battles, there's a chance they appear.
I think one reason why Seth and Dante were both made LoW was so that you couldn't field both in the same army (since the BA book didn't use the C:SM system of Chapter Tactics to separate its characters/chapters).
I do suspect that GW may use the LoW mechanic to create limits on being able to take all the best stuff in one army. Making you choose among the baddest of dudes rather than being able to take them all. Of course, the new formation system pretty much gets around this issue anyway, so we'll see.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Doing another Eldar book and not re-doing the Avatar would just be criminal. It is one of the oldest models in the range. It needs to be redone.
While I don’t disagree, it’s not like the eldar range is short of horribly dated minis. They could update half the range, and still have work to do...
Crazyterran wrote: Pretty much the only change is going to be Banshee Grenades, Serpent Shield Nerf, and Holoshield nerf, right?
I get the two first ones but why the holoshield nerf? It's already bad since you have to move to use it; it gives the same buff as IG/AM camo netting but doesn't work turn one, maybe I am missing something?
GearheadXII wrote: I hope we get an updated avatar that is bigger from GW. I use my FW model all the time because I think it is cooler even though it is a disadvantage for me.
I have all 3... but I like using the RT one. Its funny to have a beatstick that's less than 3" tall.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Doing another Eldar book and not re-doing the Avatar would just be criminal. It is one of the oldest models in the range. It needs to be redone.
The main reason I give any credence to the possibility has nothing to with the age or dated look, because that would have some bearing on GW doing something their customers wanted, they'd much rather release something new that nobody already owned, no, the reason this has any legs is because they want everything in plastic.
I can't see the WK becoming LOW. It has comparable models in other codex's. Eldrad and the Phoenix lords probably and maybe even the Revenant titan. What shocks me is the Eldar codex coming out so quick. At this rate I can't keep up with the books and can't paint stuff fast enough. At this rate they will push me out of the hobby on cost which I never saw coming.
Eldar are coming, but that release list? Err no. 
Why is the first campaign 3 linked groups and the second a bit up in the air ( Raven Guard without dex/supplement ? ) ? Thought everything got some follow up stuff.... 
