It goes back, at least in part, the bizarre decision to make the Skrull hapless underdogs in Captain Marvel, which was always an odd choice. I assume motivated by something in the comics.Wasn't there a little while the Skrull were good guys or something? IDK.
They kind of boxed themselves in a bit on that front.It's hard to walk back the Skrull being a big threat when you made them intergalactic hobos in a previous film.
They should have tried to take over Wakanda. It's a cozy place to live, nobody is going to bother them (or else!), and if they got rid of the natives they could even live in their natural forms undisturbed most of the time. It's basically the perfect colony if they don't want to leave Earth.
And you could pretty much make it so they do not actually want to leave Earth. Once they have their own planet and the Kree (that's how it's spelled, right?) get wind of it, it's extermination o'clock again. Earth is protected as long as the dominant population is human.
It feels like it would be a better show if the conflict was about Skrulls trying to integrate and live as humans versus ones who want their own colony on Earth so they don't have to assume different personas anymore. With the obvious stake for the humans being that the latter group is willing to go genocidal and take over one of the most powerful nations in the world, which would obviously be undesirable.
Voss wrote: AND defacto in charge of international espionage for 30 years. (So... Hydra, by the by...)
Oh wow. I can't believe I missed this. Skrulls were the secret power behind Fury's sucess. A secret cabal of shape-shifting infiltration specialists... WHO NEVER FIGURED OUT THAT HALF OF SHIELD WERE ACTUALLY HYDRA!? THEY COMPLETELY MISSED THIS FOR 20 YEARS!?
Also, it's incredibly annoying that Skrulls can't detect Skrulls when shape-shifting. You'd think a race that developed shape-shifting as a defense mechanism against outside threats would be able to tell who each other are at all times anyway.
LordofHats wrote: It goes back, at least in part, the bizarre decision to make the Skrull hapless underdogs in Captain Marvel, which was always an odd choice. I assume motivated by something in the comics.Wasn't there a little while the Skrull were good guys or something? IDK.
They kind of boxed themselves in a bit on that front.It's hard to walk back the Skrull being a big threat when you made them intergalactic hobos in a previous film.
IIRC the original Secret Invasion was more or less for the same reason (Skrulls got their ass kicked by the Kree and became homeless.)
The fundamental difference being that the Skrulls thought that Earth was some sort of prophesied promised land.
I can see why that got changed TBH, casting the Skrulls as some sort of zealots trying to claim somebody else's home as their own because a book said so has too many real world analogies these days to really be practical from a PR perspective.
Even in the context that some of the shows have potentially dubious readings of how the various factions are presented, that's probably too much.
According to an ABC press release, the Emmy-nominated series will air in its entirety across two Saturdays, with the first three episodes airing on August 5 and the last three airing on August 12. The action kicks off at 8/7c on both nights.
Ms. Marvel’s ABC airings hype up the November 10 theatrical release of the movie The Marvels, in which Iman Vellani will reprise her role as the superpowered teen alongside Brie Larson as Carol Danvers a.k.a. Captain Marvel and Teyonah Parris as Monica Rambeau.
With the writers and actors on strike and Disney owning ABC I'm not surprised in the least (CBS did something similar with Star Trek: Discovery during the pandemic).
So, I was trying to figure out my issue with this series for awhile and I did when gravik revealed his final plan, to just have them strike Russia.
This isn't some grand conspiracy story about taking over the government and world, causing paranoia and fear.
This is just some terrorist group with some high ranking infiltrates that just keep trying to poke the bear
Like really, how is wjat the skulls doing any different than them just bribing those higher ranked officials.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I was trying to figure out my issue with this series for awhile and I did when gravik revealed his final plan, to just have them strike Russia.
This isn't some grand conspiracy story about taking over the government and world, causing paranoia and fear.
This is just some terrorist group with some high ranking infiltrates that just keep trying to poke the bear
Like really, how is wjat the skulls doing any different than them just bribing those higher ranked officials.
Nuclear war. They made it clear that both, the skrulls have no problem with higher levels of radiation and they want to basically terraform earth when humanity is gone. The spy game is about getting us to commit to killing ourselves.
Yeah, exactly. It wasn't some grand plan or anything, it's literally finding different ways to provoke war.
Nothing really unique is done with the Skrulls and the shape-shifting. Everyone just knows who the skulls are, everyone is sure.
There was a cool moment in the comics where Spider woman tries to convince Tony he is a deep undercover skrull.
No such moment here.
Lance845 wrote: Episode 5 is definitely the best episode so far. The actual stakes of what Fury has been up to have been revealed.
Yeah I dunno if finally revealing what this is all about 5 episodes into a 6 episode series is really a ringing endorsement...
It isn't and i wasn't saying that as a ringing endorsement. I was simply stating the fact that episode 5 is so far the best episode and provides a clear picture of the stakes.
I do stand by an opinion that this show, like most of them, is probably way better in a binge.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I was trying to figure out my issue with this series for awhile and I did when gravik revealed his final plan, to just have them strike Russia.
This isn't some grand conspiracy story about taking over the government and world, causing paranoia and fear.
This is just some terrorist group with some high ranking infiltrates that just keep trying to poke the bear
Like really, how is wjat the skulls doing any different than them just bribing those higher ranked officials.
Nuclear war. They made it clear that both, the skrulls have no problem with higher levels of radiation and they want to basically terraform earth when humanity is gone. The spy game is about getting us to commit to killing ourselves.
Its unclear how that would be a problem, though. They started this series with two heads of state of nuclear powers, high ranking officers, and can sneak multiple skrulls onto submarines. It just seems like if they want to push that button, it isn't actually that hard. At least, not for shapeshifting aliens with memory sifting tech. And again, they've been a major part of the international spy organization for thirty years. They've got access to all sorts of tech and secrets.
The British Prime minister announcing 'We declare war' and launching even a handful of missiles would trigger retaliation and there it is.
The series started with the Skrulls already having the winning hand, and just... not playing it.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I was trying to figure out my issue with this series for awhile and I did when gravik revealed his final plan, to just have them strike Russia.
This isn't some grand conspiracy story about taking over the government and world, causing paranoia and fear.
This is just some terrorist group with some high ranking infiltrates that just keep trying to poke the bear
Like really, how is wjat the skulls doing any different than them just bribing those higher ranked officials.
Nuclear war. They made it clear that both, the skrulls have no problem with higher levels of radiation and they want to basically terraform earth when humanity is gone. The spy game is about getting us to commit to killing ourselves.
Its unclear how that would be a problem, though. They started this series with two heads of state of nuclear powers, high ranking officers, and can sneak multiple skrulls onto submarines. It just seems like if they want to push that button, it isn't actually that hard. At least, not for shapeshifting aliens with memory sifting tech. And again, they've been a major part of the international spy organization for thirty years. They've got access to all sorts of tech and secrets.
The British Prime minister announcing 'We declare war' and launching even a handful of missiles would trigger retaliation and there it is.
The series started with the Skrulls already having the winning hand, and just... not playing it.
They called thor and the hulk a couple of nuclear warheads before. The Avengers and other super powered individuals are a major deterent. It's not enough to start a nuclear war. They need to build up a force of super skrulls that can both fight off any supers that come after them and defend the planet from anything else coming their way including the kree. Carol danvers turned away an orbital bombardment from a kree acuser and 2 other of their ships with her bare hands.
And that gets into what was revealed in Episode 5. Why they don't just kill fury. Why they don't just launch the nukes. What they want to get their hands on first.
Oh weird. Just saw another ad for Kamala’s resurrection and switch to X-Men mutant and it showed off her using her stretchy powers. I’m surprised she’s keeping those. Figured a whole part of killing, resurrecting, and changing her from Inhuman to Mutant would be to make her more like the MCU version and she’d end up changing to the hard light powers instead from the ordeal.
AduroT wrote: Oh weird. Just saw another ad for Kamala’s resurrection and switch to X-Men mutant and it showed off her using her stretchy powers. I’m surprised she’s keeping those. Figured a whole part of killing, resurrecting, and changing her from Inhuman to Mutant would be to make her more like the MCU version and she’d end up changing to the hard light powers instead from the ordeal.
I am not 100% sure MCU khamala will be keeping the hardlight powers forever. I have a feeling it has more to do with the bangle (which i still think is 1 of the negabands) and when/if she loses it her stretchy powers might come out.
AduroT wrote: Oh weird. Just saw another ad for Kamala’s resurrection and switch to X-Men mutant and it showed off her using her stretchy powers. I’m surprised she’s keeping those. Figured a whole part of killing, resurrecting, and changing her from Inhuman to Mutant would be to make her more like the MCU version and she’d end up changing to the hard light powers instead from the ordeal.
I am not 100% sure MCU khamala will be keeping the hardlight powers forever. I have a feeling it has more to do with the bangle (which i still think is 1 of the negabands) and when/if she loses it her stretchy powers might come out.
Honestly I don't believe she'll get the 'stretchy powers' in the MCU as it will confuse casual viewers when the Fantastic Four movie eventually comes out.
AduroT wrote: Oh weird. Just saw another ad for Kamala’s resurrection and switch to X-Men mutant and it showed off her using her stretchy powers. I’m surprised she’s keeping those. Figured a whole part of killing, resurrecting, and changing her from Inhuman to Mutant would be to make her more like the MCU version and she’d end up changing to the hard light powers instead from the ordeal.
I am not 100% sure MCU khamala will be keeping the hardlight powers forever. I have a feeling it has more to do with the bangle (which i still think is 1 of the negabands) and when/if she loses it her stretchy powers might come out.
I assumed the Quantum Bands given the entanglement but the Nega is more in line with Marvel.
One aspect of this which I think they placed the seeds for but who knows if it pays off, is these objects I think all all Kang artifacts.
The crystal structure in the bangles looks like the crystal structure in the 10 rings, which matches the crystal structure in the rings in kangs big time building.
All of this crap is Kang tech.
I did see a theory that the battle world of secret wars could end up being the void at the end of time. Everything gets killed/eliminated and gets dumped into the void. Fragments of multiple realities and multiple versions of people running around in the nothing waiting for Alioth to devour it.
We may have already gotten our glimpse of the end of this whole arc right from the beginning with Loki S1.
No head weasels here, but I unexpectedly had time to spare, so I figured I'd get it over with right away. What to say about Secret Invasion? No details, so no spoilers tags necessary. Takeaway is that the show felt unengaging. Kind of inoffensive, but without much to take an interest in either. I much preferred Hawkeye, Loki and Ms. Marvel. Those were fun. Secret Invasion just kind of exists. At least it's not Moon Knight.
AduroT wrote: Bit odd that one can get a bullet to the heart or half their face blown off and be fine, but a hole thru the gut is instantly fatal.
Yeah, curious. Isn't the healing ability from Iron Man 3? I don't even remember anymore how the big bad got it. Generally the idea was that the users overheat and go splat from the inside, but I don't think that happened to him?
Seeing A super skrull do the super skrull thing of different limbs of different powers was fun. Very cool seeing the whole bag of tricks in there.
What was the glassy sword arm from? Couldn't place that.
The whole series was kind of flat. Agree with MadDoc, probably better in a binge. Intend to see if thats true next week.
It leaves off a couple of interesting things. Vaara's work she needs to get back to. G'iah in the mix. Things could be picked back up later.
Spoiler:
In the initial batch of samples shown in episode 2(?) one of the things on the list was the frost beast from Jotunheim that showed up on earth when Malekith caused the realms to collide in Thor 2.
AduroT wrote: Bit odd that one can get a bullet to the heart or half their face blown off and be fine, but a hole thru the gut is instantly fatal.
Yeah, curious. Isn't the healing ability from Iron Man 3? I don't even remember anymore how the big bad got it. Generally the idea was that the users overheat and go splat from the inside, but I don't think that happened to him?
Pretty sure we saw a baddie in Iron Man 3 die to a heart shot. Also bullet isn’t the same as Cosmic Powers.
Just watched the last episode of Secret Invasion and have to say I was decidedly underwhelmed by the whole thing.
Spoiler:
Fridging Maria Hill was a huge disappointment, she never really got out from the shadow of being Fury’s sidekick.
Nick Fury’s absence post blip doesn’t ring true, and he just seems 2 steps behind and mostly incompetent throughout.
Killing off Ben Mendelsohn was a shame, he’s always worth watching.
Emilia Clarke’s character hasn’t grabbed my interest so I’m a bit disappointed she survived when other more interesting and charismatic characters didn’t.
Overall the plot felt a bit limp, and I just didn’t really buy into the show. The one positive for me was Olivia Colman, she stole every scene she was in. More of her please. I’d happily watch a series or film of her character!
Oh, and I have a question:
Spoiler:
The American president declares anyone not born on earth as an enemy combatant, not just skrulls, right?
Where does that put the Asgaragian community/refugees and Thor for that matter? Or any other alien species (guardian of the galaxy etc)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Reading reactions and reviews I'm glad I skipped this one.
Sounds awful.
IMO it was pedestrian and predictable, weakest of the MCU series by some distance. Olivia Colman was the highlight of the series. There were a few other nice little bits, but most, if not all, of the other series have had some highly memorable/stand out scenes, this was just flat.
Given my low opinion of most D+ shows - not just the Marvel ones - if this is the worst of them, then wow... although I doubt it was worse than Poisoning the Well... sorry, She-Hulk.
Loki was the one I liked the most. Hopefully season 2 is good.
Aash wrote: Just watched the last episode of Secret Invasion and have to say I was decidedly underwhelmed by the whole thing.
Spoiler:
Fridging Maria Hill was a huge disappointment, she never really got out from the shadow of being Fury’s sidekick.
Nick Fury’s absence post blip doesn’t ring true, and he just seems 2 steps behind and mostly incompetent throughout.
Killing off Ben Mendelsohn was a shame, he’s always worth watching.
Emilia Clarke’s character hasn’t grabbed my interest so I’m a bit disappointed she survived when other more interesting and charismatic characters didn’t.
Overall the plot felt a bit limp, and I just didn’t really buy into the show. The one positive for me was Olivia Colman, she stole every scene she was in. More of her please. I’d happily watch a series or film of her character!
Oh, and I have a question:
Spoiler:
The American president declares anyone not born on earth as an enemy combatant, not just skrulls, right?
Where does that put the Asgaragian community/refugees and Thor for that matter? Or any other alien species (guardian of the galaxy etc)
I've been watching SI, but my enthusiasm has waned to the point I'm reading spoiler tags before seeing the final episode. It has been another example of D+ watering down the overall quality of the MCU (and Star Wars) franchises. SI could have been a great Samuel L Jackson TV series, but it's fallen a bit flat. 'Yay' to Oliva Colman, but killing of Maria Hill and Talos was a bad move - I find them appealing characters. Maybe they wanted to leave the MCU (contracts up, wanted to do other things), but even so...
The American president declares anyone not born on earth as an enemy combatant, not just skrulls, right?
Where does that put the Asgaragian community/refugees and Thor for that matter? Or any other alien species (guardian of the galaxy etc)
Spoiler:
What the US President decides to do with America doesn't have anything to do with what Norway decides to do with it's asgardian population.
Spoiler:
Yes, however Norway is in NATO (is NATO a thing in the MCU?) and I doubt harbouring “enemy combatants” would go down easily. And what of Thor specifically or any other aliens? I was mostly asking in case I missed something and the Skrulls were targeted or was it all aliens as I initially thought.
Just seems another poorly thought through development in the MCU which seems to be steadily losing track of its story threads (any mention of the giant celestial sticking out the ocean lately?!)
The American president declares anyone not born on earth as an enemy combatant, not just skrulls, right?
Where does that put the Asgaragian community/refugees and Thor for that matter? Or any other alien species (guardian of the galaxy etc)
Spoiler:
What the US President decides to do with America doesn't have anything to do with what Norway decides to do with it's asgardian population.
Spoiler:
Yes, however Norway is in NATO (is NATO a thing in the MCU?) and I doubt harbouring “enemy combatants” would go down easily. And what of Thor specifically or any other aliens? I was mostly asking in case I missed something and the Skrulls were targeted or was it all aliens as I initially thought.
Just seems another poorly thought through development in the MCU which seems to be steadily losing track of its story threads (any mention of the giant celestial sticking out the ocean lately?!)
Lately? Did that ever get mentioned at all after Eternals?
Anyway...
Spoiler:
The president was going to nuke Russia and bring about the end of the world. I'm considering the possibility that he's actually meant to be an idiot who doesn't think things through so as to keep up adversity for the heroes and give them something to fix down the line.
You know the MCU isn't doing so hot when even the usual hypemen who do damage control for their releases don't have many positives to say about it beyond "it was entertaining" which is about as milquetoast as you can get in praising a series.
I stopped after episode 2 but unless this current President is Thunderbolt Ross then he doesn't matter.
Ross is confirmed to be President in the recently renamed Captain America: Brave New World presumably for Thunderbolts shenanigans.
There were a few moments where it seemed like the show might go somewhere interesting. Most of them involved Olivia Coleman. But man, what a wet fart of a climax.
I think Samuel Jackson tried, for a few episodes at least. Don Cheadle seemed to be having fun. I like seeing Emilia Clarke in stuff but this role did her no favors. Gravik had more presence as Ken #3 than as Alien Bin Laden or whatever they were going for. Ben Mendelssohn is always good. So they killed him.
This seems like one of those series that drags most of the artists involved down.
I have to wonder how much this show was really hit by the pandemic. Someone has obviously been dreaming of this for a long time. If not from the start of Captain Marvel at least from Far From Home.
The multiverse storyline is one thing, but it feels like before that, they really wanted post Endgame to lead more to this. It feels like Black Widow, Falcon/WS, Hawkeye, etc were supposed to be the big breadcrumb trail of Phase 4 and just couldn't be released to plan in a way that built up to what was originally envisioned.
Ultimately I can't shake how much it feels like this was supposed to be part of a big plan that got abandoned when most of its components had to be salvaged under COVID restrictions.
LunarSol wrote: I have to wonder how much this show was really hit by the pandemic. Someone has obviously been dreaming of this for a long time. If not from the start of Captain Marvel at least from Far From Home.
The multiverse storyline is one thing, but it feels like before that, they really wanted post Endgame to lead more to this. It feels like Black Widow, Falcon/WS, Hawkeye, etc were supposed to be the big breadcrumb trail of Phase 4 and just couldn't be released to plan in a way that built up to what was originally envisioned.
Ultimately I can't shake how much it feels like this was supposed to be part of a big plan that got abandoned when most of its components had to be salvaged under COVID restrictions.
Feels like more that they didn't really know what next big thing to focus on and they just started throwing stuff at the wall to see what might stick. Post-blip chaos was a poorly resolved thread, the Multiverse is currently the main one, one thread that is currently going nowhere are the Eternals and the whole Celestial plotline, and Skrulls apparently was another one and they're back where they started as rando alien refugees that basically just got exposed as being clandestine space terrorists because reasons.
I'm just looking forward to seeing people try to justify how She Hulk twerking in 40 different dimensions makes sense as the way of how Kang is ultimately defeated and in doing so restores balance to the force.
It's not so much the 5 year gap. It's more that they didn't deal with that gap in any appreciable way. The powers that be have even said that dealing with the 5 years and post-blip return isn't something they really considered all that important.
The fact that they called it the "blip" tells you everything you need to know.
The MCU is just trash now. I hope Loki 2 is good... but I don't have high hopes.
I don't know if I'd say that it's trash, but there's definitely some missing magic that they had in the Infinity Saga. Sadly I don't think they'll ever get it back, lightning seldom strikes twice, but I'd still take most of phase 4 over anything DC has done in the last decade.
I don't think the current issues have anything to do with in universe storylines.
I think the last Bob (chapek?) Was both pushing for Marvel Studios to develop a buch of tv series and produce at rates that are frankly unsustainable. Things spiraled quickly. If anything, the pandemic helped by sllwing things down even as it created logistic and technical issues with production. The farther into phase 4 and now i to phase 5 we get the more things were being produced concurrently with less ability for oversight and quality control.
Phase 4 has more hours of content then phase 1-3 combined and released in less time than any other phase. That gaks unsustainable.
This is the result of that. And we probably have another 3-5 projects before this "slow things back down" brings a real return to form.
So binging this second half, just to get it over with. (Also, the sound balance is utter crap)
And no, binging doesn't help.
Episode 4:
Don't care about the relationship. I'm sure its very poignant and meaningful and the art on the walls is very symbolic of blending and coming together and whatever. I've got no capacity to believe that Fury could manage to trust a subordinate or alien or frankly even another human being enough to have a relationship.
Talos seems like an utter moron. Complete lack of anything resembling a plan, so no surprise the insurgents walked away
The attack was... incredibly stupid. People don't just... wander around... in the middle of a pitched firefight, and that farcical level of security was just insulting to the viewer.
-----
Episode 5:
Oh. Ok... then. Moustache twirling villainy ahoy.
Even the pretense of nuance just dropped out of the bottom of the show in the first five minutes.
What the actual feth?
Petty pedantry: burial and cremation are not interchangeable words.
Another terribly ineffective hit squad....yawn. Why are they even bothering? Also, why is anyone wearing armor that can't even stand up to low caliber pistols?
No Avengers because
Spoiler:
its... personal.
. Cool. That doesn't make anyone seem like a moron at all. I get the actual reason is actors and expense and all. But this is just coming across (along with everything else) as Fury being incompetent and not knowing how to communicate with (or, as 'the' spy) manipulate people. He's just another fool.
-----
Episode 6:
No one hears gunshots in this show. Not surprised, because that would mean actual consequences for shenanigans, but its still baffling.
Rhodey... is still a Colonel, right? (presumably reinstated after various... things) Because he really blatantly doesn't act like one. He acts like a 1st LT trying to bully his NCOs and for no apparent reason they're tolerating it.
The emotional confrontation is very sad. Not because it has any weight at all, but because I'm pretty sure these were good actors at some point, and I don't know what they're doing in this absurd farce of a scene (yes, it is very obvious)
And so it ends, the way the MCU always does. With CGI baby arms as 'ultimate power.'
Several epilogues later, the wild tone-shifts are making me nauseous.
I'm still vaguely convinced that Olivia Colman was filming an actually decent show in the next lot over, but just kept wandering on set and they couldn't shoo her off.
Overall I'd give it somewhere between 0.9 and 1.2 Eternals. Maybe the various strikes will remind Disney that they should actually make good shows and films.
That relationship stuff was just uncomfortable. They had real second-marriage-couple-you-block-on-Facebook energy.
And I’m sorry, I know this is a jerkass thing to ask, but am I the only one who snickered whenever Priscilla asked him “do you love me…or this face?”? I get that the writers were probably already escorted off the lot before the show was cast, and I’m sure the actress is a wonderful human being despite her decades of beach-smoking, but the combination were Jordan Peele horror movie brutal. Her green face looked 30 years younger and two Vietnam Wars less grizzled. Did no editor think to take the director aside and whisper, “I can ADR in something less cruel. Won’t affect the budget at all.”? It’s like the opposite of the “disfigured” girl from Ready Player One, and just as distracting.
Ok, that was a stupid rant I held in too long and now I’m done venting into the void.
Lance845 wrote: I think the last Bob (chapek?) Was both pushing for Marvel Studios to develop a buch of tv series and produce at rates that are frankly unsustainable. Things spiraled quickly. If anything, the pandemic helped by sllwing things down even as it created logistic and technical issues with production. The farther into phase 4 and now i to phase 5 we get the more things were being produced concurrently with less ability for oversight and quality control.
You're quite right in that a lot of the failings of the MCU at the moment are down to Bob Chapek's quantity over quality methodology, wanting more and more content for D+, and also the fact that he put his right-hand man (Kareem Daniel) over Feige.
But you cannot blame them for some of the truly terrible bits of nonsense that have come out of Marvel since End Game. A lot of it comes down to hiring terrible writers. Yes, having spin-offs of spin-offs that no one asked for (Echo and Agatha Harkness spring to mind) isn't helping, but Secret Invasion was't terrible because of Bob Chapek.
But you cannot blame them for some of the truly terrible bits of nonsense that have come out of Marvel since End Game. A lot of it comes down to hiring terrible writers. Yes, having spin-offs of spin-offs that no one asked for (Echo and Agatha Harkness spring to mind) isn't helping, but Secret Invasion was't terrible because of Bob Chapek.
The performance of the actress (and the character), I think, could carry a Harkness TV show. Strangely, a show about Echo, a relatively mundane lieutenant in a criminal organization, responsible for carrying out and overseeing a fair few murders I find completely unappealing, despite (if such things were real) Harkness being just as much a vile character, if not more so. I guess Agatha is a villain whereas Echo is just a 'senior mook' who should be doing 25+ in prison.
AduroT wrote: Bit odd that one can get a bullet to the heart or half their face blown off and be fine, but a hole thru the gut is instantly fatal.
Um, because they're aliens? Apparently Skrulls are highly vulnerable to gut shots....
Humans - you can shoot them pretty much anywhere
Superman - Kryptonite
Zombies - headshots
Vampires - a stake through the heart
Werewolves - vulnerable to silver
MCU Skrulls - gut shots. Sure, why not?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: Yes, NATO exists in the MCU, one of the Skrulls had replaced (one of?) it’s leader(s?).
Yes, the Celestial was briefly mentioned in She Hulk in a passing news headline, along with a Wolverine reference in another.
I'm still convinced that Eternals & She-Hulk are really just their own self-contained bits of the Multiverse.
I'm still convinced that Eternals & She-Hulk are really just their own self-contained bits of the Multiverse.
Deffo for She-Hulk. I think that the Eternals has been shunted off into space and so will be interacting more with the Gunn-inspired wackiness of that setting. Or just forgotten about.
Lance845 wrote: I think the last Bob (chapek?) Was both pushing for Marvel Studios to develop a buch of tv series and produce at rates that are frankly unsustainable. Things spiraled quickly. If anything, the pandemic helped by sllwing things down even as it created logistic and technical issues with production. The farther into phase 4 and now i to phase 5 we get the more things were being produced concurrently with less ability for oversight and quality control.
You're quite right in that a lot of the failings of the MCU at the moment are down to Bob Chapek's quantity over quality methodology, wanting more and more content for D+, and also the fact that he put his right-hand man (Kareem Daniel) over Feige.
But you cannot blame them for some of the truly terrible bits of nonsense that have come out of Marvel since End Game. A lot of it comes down to hiring terrible writers. Yes, having spin-offs of spin-offs that no one asked for (Echo and Agatha Harkness spring to mind) isn't helping, but Secret Invasion was't terrible because of Bob Chapek.
What I am saying is that Secret Invasion would have had a level of oversight and time to be developed that it did not receive because of the mandates handed down by Chapek. When you are in meetings about the scripts/stories for 1) Secret Invasion 2) the Marvels 3) Armor Wars) 4) Iron Heart 5) Loki 2 6) House of Harkness 7) Quantumania 8) etc etc... all at the same time, how can you possibly give any 1 project the attention it needs.
Look at phase 3. Phase 3 had 2-3 projects release a year over 3 years. Considering a 2-3 year general development time that meant scripts for Infinity war were being drafted when Civil War came out.
By comparison phase 4. 18 projects over 2 years. 9 of which were SHOWs not movies so the script writing shooting and directing were drastically larger endeavors. This isn't just hiring bad writers. It's stretching your pool of writers so damn thin. Having the producers who are supposed to be watching this stuff and keep it on track needing to juggle 9 productions to launch in a year instead of 3.
This idea that TV shows, by nature of becoming heavily continuity based are interchangeable with movies is the heart of the problem. So many of the D+ shows feel like film pitches that someone decided could be stuffed with filler and turned into a show. Instead you get an overly long film with terrible pacing where both the budget and content are stretched too thin.
Book of Boba is the obvious offender here, but there's a huge difference between something like WandaVision, which used its episodic structure to great effect and the majority of these shows that are really just film scripts with every minute of deleted footage left in.
Capt Marvel cost at least $152 million for 124 minutes of content. Secret Invasion gives us 2.5 films coming in at 296 minutes for just $60 million more. It's the same effect you get turning the Hobbit into 3 films. Hours of filler instead of any concentration of quality.
LunarSol wrote: This idea that TV shows, by nature of becoming heavily continuity based are interchangeable with movies is the heart of the problem. So many of the D+ shows feel like film pitches that someone decided could be stuffed with filler and turned into a show. Instead you get an overly long film with terrible pacing where both the budget and content are stretched too thin.
Book of Boba is the obvious offender here, but there's a huge difference between something like WandaVision, which used its episodic structure to great effect and the majority of these shows that are really just film scripts with every minute of deleted footage left in.
Capt Marvel cost at least $152 million for 124 minutes of content. Secret Invasion gives us 2.5 films coming in at 296 minutes for just $60 million more. It's the same effect you get turning the Hobbit into 3 films. Hours of filler instead of any concentration of quality.
I agree. And I think the Early D+ Marvel shows really highlight what happens when they went in planning for it and had the attention span to focus on it. Wanda Vision, Loki, Falcon/Winter Soldier. The narratives really worked in the longer format. I feel like Ms Marvel was about the time when things started a downward trend. Just too much or too little in the wrong format.
Ms Marvel is really noticeable as it feels like the first batch of episodes and the final couple were a single movie script that was based more on the Superhuman Registration Act style storyline. The Clan Destine stuff and Karachi almost feel like a second season that they tried to weave in with very awkward results.
From a production standpoint though it's VERY clear that the early episodes and later ones were filmed together. The lighting and set design and character dynamics and really everything are cohesive in a way that really stands out when they snap back to it.
Watched the final episode last night. It was such garbage.
My 12 year old daughter even complained, "Wait, wouldn't the people they kept there be dead from the radiation?" And, "Why isn't he healing like before."
She caught the Marvel bug about 2 years ago, so she's the only reason I watch most of the new stuff. If she's complaining, then you know it's bad.
I don't understand how the writers can be striking in fear of AI, when they can't even write intelligent and coherent material.
Another long-time gripe of mine is when people suddenly gain super powers and immediately know how to use them effectively. Add in to that my gripe when writers make DNA do stuff that makes no sense. Captain Marvel was powered up from an infinity gem... how does that translate to DNA?
Maybe they'll use the Multiverse and Secret War stuff to completely wipe out the current continuity... It's just so terrible now.
I don't understand how the writers can be striking in fear of AI, when they can't even write intelligent and coherent material.
I'm going to guess that it has something to do with them not getting paid if the chatbot does the work....
bbb wrote: Another long-time gripe of mine is when people suddenly gain super powers and immediately know how to use them effectively. Add in to that my gripe when writers make DNA do stuff that makes no sense. Captain Marvel was powered up from an infinity gem... how does that translate to DNA?
1) Nobody wants to sit through watching a training montage. And, most importantly the powers-that-be don't want to spend the $ showing you that.
bbb wrote: Another long-time gripe of mine is when people suddenly gain super powers and immediately know how to use them effectively.
Would’ve been such a more interesting fight if they were both wrestling with channeling their new powers in additionto combatting each other.
bbb wrote: Add in to that my gripe when writers make DNA do stuff that makes no sense. Captain Marvel was powered up from an infinity gem... how does that translate to DNA?
I liked* how they added Ebony Maws rings.
bbb wrote: Maybe they'll use the Multiverse and Secret War stuff to completely wipe out the current continuity... It's just so terrible now.
I think they need to put “continuity” on the back burner. Just make some some solid one-off superhero flicks for a bit.
*somehow rolled my eyes/groaned/laughed/sighed at the same time when that happened.
That was probably the most disappointing of the Marvel TV shows so far for me. It never felt like there was an intelligent, or even coherent, plot and all the actors other than Olivia Coleman and Ben Mendelsohn seemed like they would rather be doing anything other than be in this show. I never got the feeling there was any invasion going on either - secret or otherwise. It all felt like some random angry dude leading a small terrorist cell had somehow become a global threat because...characters kept telling is he was.
I think these shows work better when they're more personal to the characters and not trying to produce world-ending stakes all the time. Apart from avoiding the obvious "why not call in the Avengers" problems, it also means the writers might have to actually care about the characters involved.
Slipspace wrote: That was probably the most disappointing of the Marvel TV shows so far for me. It never felt like there was an intelligent, or even coherent, plot and all the actors other than Olivia Coleman and Ben Mendelsohn seemed like they would rather be doing anything other than be in this show. I never got the feeling there was any invasion going on either - secret or otherwise. It all felt like some random angry dude leading a small terrorist cell had somehow become a global threat because...characters kept telling is he was.
I think these shows work better when they're more personal to the characters and not trying to produce world-ending stakes all the time. Apart from avoiding the obvious "why not call in the Avengers" problems, it also means the writers might have to actually care about the characters involved.
The sad thing is, this was an attempt at personal stakes. The nuclear war they couldn't close the deal on was irrelevant. Fury's relationships with his second-in-command, his friend, his wife and his abandoned protege were supposedly the center-stage material.
The problem was, they never established any of that, so they were floundering trying to get the audience to take it seriously while introducing it and taking it away all at the same time. All under the guise of a completely different show focused on Jack Ryan-esque terrorist baiting.
That it ended in
Spoiler:
CGI comedy mode should come as a surprise to no one.
Another long-time gripe of mine is when people suddenly gain super powers and immediately know how to use them effectively. Add in to that my gripe when writers make DNA do stuff that makes no sense. Captain Marvel was powered up from an infinity gem... how does that translate to DNA?
They've mentioned it in the trailers for The Marvels, but Carol's powers are based on energy absorption. In theory she's as strong as she is because she absorbed so much power from a gem, where the Super Skrulls would have mostly been about the what they absorbed from the machine and surrounding radiation.
I'm more curious why Drax's tattoos are written into his DNA...
Another long-time gripe of mine is when people suddenly gain super powers and immediately know how to use them effectively. Add in to that my gripe when writers make DNA do stuff that makes no sense. Captain Marvel was powered up from an infinity gem... how does that translate to DNA?
They've mentioned it in the trailers for The Marvels, but Carol's powers are based on energy absorption. In theory she's as strong as she is because she absorbed so much power from a gem, where the Super Skrulls would have mostly been about the what they absorbed from the machine and surrounding radiation.
I'm more curious why Drax's tattoos are written into his DNA...
Nothing about the absorbed powers makes any sense whatsoever. I think everyone - including those at Marvel - should just forget that Secret Invasion ever happened. The MCU will be better off as a result.
Meanwhile, Loki 2. Loki is the only D+ MCU show I've genuinely liked, so here's hoping they don't feth up season 2.
Im actually a big MCU simp and defender. I liked she-hulk, been liking the recnt movies, thought eternals was great and underrated.
Secret Invasion actually made me frustrated. It felt so small-stakes because of the interactions. The Skrulls Shape-shifting wasnt used to its fullest. The idea of skrulls spending so long undercover they come to think they are them. No real paranoia about who is who because they decided to focus on the actors playing the skrulls and not the skrulls themselves. Like when shot, Gravik reverted to his human for, not skrull form.
Shapeshifter stories don't work when you know who everyone is. From an actor point of view, I'm sure the cast liked getting billed for a set role.
But from a narrative point of view, its undermining. Gravik, Giyah and Talos in particular are functionally human for most of the show. It honestly doesn't matter that they're shapeshifting aliens, and that's a shame.
Visual effects (VFX) crews at Marvel Studios have voted to unionize, IATSE announced on Monday.
A press release notes that “A supermajority of Marvel’s more than 50-worker crew had signed authorization cards indicating they wished to be represented by the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE).”
The unionization effort marks the first time VFX professionals have banded together in such a fashion, as this segment of the industry has largely remained non-union. IATSE represents more than 168,000 technicians, artisans and craftspersons working in movies and TV, but while “positions like production designers/art directors, camera operators, sound, editors, hair and makeup artists, costumes/wardrobe, script supervisors, grips, lighting, props and paint, among others, have historically been represented by IATSE,” the release explains, “workers in VFX classifications historically have not.”
Now Studios should have to enter production with a more solid plan and include in that plan time tables for VFX. No more last minute changes unless you are willing to change release dates.
Ahtman wrote: It has always been a bit odd that there are Unions for actors, producers, directors, writers, and trade unions for crew, but not for the FX teams.
Guessing it’s kind of a modernity hangover? VFX has of course been in use more or less since cinema started. But it’s not until Star Wars that films really embraced them, so 46 or so years ago. Compared to SAG-AFTRA, which has its roots in two unions that began in the 1930’s.
Ahtman wrote: It has always been a bit odd that there are Unions for actors, producers, directors, writers, and trade unions for crew, but not for the FX teams.
FX teams largely grew out of the same crunch culture as the rest of Silicon Valley. Dream jobs for many that over time got too complicated for small teams of people who viewed it as a passion project, but the underlying culture made normalizing exploitative working conditions pretty easy for executives who have worked very very hard to keep these teams convinced they should consider themselves lucky. The industry has just matured, people feel how much of their life they've sacrificed for increasingly less reward, but honestly its just been a trend of the last decade or so of brazen greed that's really forced people to take action.
I just wish that he brought up the rescue of the people the Skrulls kidnapped and kept on the radioactive base who seemed fine. Barely inconvenienced actually.
I just wish that he brought up the rescue of the people the Skrulls kidnapped and kept on the radioactive base who seemed fine. Barely inconvenienced actually.
Knocks it out of the park again. I'm sure the MCU stans aren't enthused about the way the MCU is headed, but at least it's giving us indirect entertainment through content like this.
I am sure it was posted around here somewhere, but I saw a snippet from Disney's Earnings call that Iger wanted to slow down on producing Marvel and Star Wars content.
Bizarrely, DIsney decided to have someone write the Scott Lang 'autobiography' from Quantumania and publish it as a real book.
Its one part terrible first person stream-of-consciousness waffle and one part summary of the MCU to date. Complete with random black & white movie stills inserted randomly in the text the way real biographies generally don't do (usually the go-to is 8 or 16 pages of plates towards the center of the book, so the binding doesn't fall apart)
I assume it appeals to somebody, but it looks as trashy as it sounds.
I assume there's a reason why the book is coming out months after the relevant film (the release date is this coming tuesday), but I also assume its someone's screw up.
Voss wrote: Bizarrely, DIsney decided to have someone write the Scott Lang 'autobiography' from Quantumania and publish it as a real book.
Its one part terrible first person stream-of-consciousness waffle and one part summary of the MCU to date. Complete with random black & white movie stills inserted randomly in the text the way real biographies generally don't do (usually the go-to is 8 or 16 pages of plates towards the center of the book, so the binding doesn't fall apart)
I assume it appeals to somebody, but it looks as trashy as it sounds.
I assume there's a reason why the book is coming out months after the relevant film (the release date is this coming tuesday), but I also assume its someone's screw up.
Pretty sure the Swarovski Marvel crystal statue things got released today because there was a queue outside the outlet in my city centre with about 4 or 5 security dudes kicking about.
EXCLUSIVE: With a deal in place with the Writers Guild, studios have begun taking aim at setting writers for their open assignments. Marvel Studios is looking to set the bar with what will likely become one of the more sought-after jobs for any scribe.
Sources tell Deadline that Marvel will start setting writer meetings later this fall for pitches on its anticipated X-Men movie. Insiders add there is no rush to fill the job since the film hasn’t been dated yet, and it’s more than likely that writer decision will be made at the top of 2024. Marvel declined comment.
So, we'll see a film in four to five years barring any major delays (there's always delays)...
My minorest of issues is last season we ended with seeing two Möbiuses at the same time on different floors of the TVA, and this season seems to kind of pretend that didn’t happen like nah we changed our mind and want to do this differently.
AduroT wrote:My minorest of issues is last season we ended with seeing two Möbiuses at the same time on different floors of the TVA, and this season seems to kind of pretend that didn’t happen like nah we changed our mind and want to do this differently.
I don't believe that is what we saw. At the end of the last season I thought we were looking at 2 entirely different TVAs (Since Loki's had the big ol Kang Statue that wasn't there before). Like... now that the Multiverse had branched out that Loki got dumped into a different Variant version of the TVA. This episode cleared up what that is since it starts right where the last one left off.
Oh, and there’s a mid-credits scene so stay tuned.
That horrified me more than anything else in the episode. I remember those places at that time. What was asked for is nauseating.
Small Easter Egg of the comics...
Spoiler:
Broxton Oklahoma (where Sylvie showed up) is where, after Ragnarok, Thor resurrected Asgard on Earth. In the comics just outside of Broxton there was a floating city of Asgard for a bit. It's also where and about the time that the comics version of Sylvie was introduced. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Broxton
That was an excellent first episode. They nailed the strange and unsettling vibe of the TVA from the first season. Thoroughly enjoyed the new temporal tech support character as well.
‘Daredevil’ Hits Reset Button as Marvel Overhauls Its TV Business Launched during the pandemic with a playbook to shoot $150 million-plus seasons with no pilots, the Disney unit is undergoing growing pains and seeing the logic of "traditional TV culture."
It didn’t take long to see the problem after Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again paused production in mid-June during the writers strike. Fewer than half of the series’ 18 episodes had been shot, but it was enough for Marvel executives, including chief Kevin Feige, to review the footage and come away with a clear-eyed assessment: The show wasn’t working.
So, in late September, Marvel quietly let go of head writers Chris Ord and Matt Corman and also released the directors for the remainder of the season as part of a significant creative reboot of the series, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. The studio is now on the hunt for new writers and directors for the project, which stars Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock, a blind lawyer turned superhero.
More at the link above.
I think this is a good thing. Most D+ MCU shows are boring and badly plotted at best (F&TWS, Hawkeye), absolute abominations at worst (She-Hulk, Secret Invasion), and in many cases only their great leads help to carry some semblance of a story (Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight). And with the rumours regarding Echo and Agetha being dumpster fires, perhaps taking a new approach and fixing what isn't working is the best way forward.
‘Daredevil’ Hits Reset Button as Marvel Overhauls Its TV Business Launched during the pandemic with a playbook to shoot $150 million-plus seasons with no pilots, the Disney unit is undergoing growing pains and seeing the logic of "traditional TV culture."
It didn’t take long to see the problem after Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again paused production in mid-June during the writers strike. Fewer than half of the series’ 18 episodes had been shot, but it was enough for Marvel executives, including chief Kevin Feige, to review the footage and come away with a clear-eyed assessment: The show wasn’t working.
So, in late September, Marvel quietly let go of head writers Chris Ord and Matt Corman and also released the directors for the remainder of the season as part of a significant creative reboot of the series, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. The studio is now on the hunt for new writers and directors for the project, which stars Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock, a blind lawyer turned superhero.
More at the link above.
I think this is a good thing. Most D+ MCU shows are boring and badly plotted at best (F&TWS, Hawkeye), absolute abominations at worst (She-Hulk, Secret Invasion), and in many cases only their great leads help to carry some semblance of a story (Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight). And with the rumours regarding Echo and Agetha being dumpster fires, perhaps taking a new approach and fixing what isn't working is the best way forward.
Still, Loki Season 2 is so far pretty good.
Glad they're finally acknowledging that they can't keep steering the ship in the same direction and that clearly quality rather than quantity is the way to go moving forward in the MCU. I know we have insane Marvel stans that will basically eat up anything Disney sharts out but that's not enough to offset the clear fatigue amongst the rest of the audience that's been built up from all the poor offerings from the past few years. Still skeptical if this will result in anything more than a token gesture in terms of their approach but we'll see I guess. The only thing I'm remotely interested in coming out is Deadpool 3 and that's a maybe.
Solid second episode. I like seeing Loki having a bit more of his villainous edge while still working towards a common goal with the TVA crew. The relationship between him and Mobius is pretty great.
AduroT wrote: It was really good to see him get to use his magic.
Yeah, he felt more like Loki than 'some guy running about.' Season 1 made him feel a little too normal.
I'm not sure what's going on with Sylvie, though. Her sense of petty blame is... weird, considering she got what she wanted out of season 1.
The temporal mechanics of this one also feels a little odd. The rogues' actions seem pointless in a continually branching multiverse. They played it real hard for the emotion, but honestly... that's a hard turnaround for the general population of the TVA. They were perfectly happy doing this on the regular just... yesterday. I get why the major Hunter character cares, but not so much anyone else.
Voss wrote: The temporal mechanics of this one also feels a little odd. The rogues' actions seem pointless in a continually branching multiverse. They played it real hard for the emotion, but honestly... that's a hard turnaround for the general population of the TVA. They were perfectly happy doing this on the regular just... yesterday. I get why the major Hunter character cares, but not so much anyone else.
They had a crack at addressing this. Their Gods are dead (and you can look at their heads in the meeting room) and the variants/branching time lines were abstract things to be returned to nothingness, but real places fun of real people. Namely them, as that is where they came from. Might not be enough, but I think it was well enough handled. Biggest issue was I think scale - they clearly have massive facilities, but seeing a few dozen soldiers marc off didn't make much sense without a montage or other areas or a line from a character saying this is happening everywhere in the TVA.
Scale is definitely an issue, though I assume most of that is not wanting to crowd in extras.
But I'm not clear on how much knowledge is really spread around. The three bosses and Brad know about the robot head, but does the rank and file? 2 of the 3 'bosses' (sleepy guy and the other woman) just vanished out of the story (just as easily as they appeared out of nowhere) while Dox(?) took her ~20 guys to do their pointless mass murder.
The TVA as a whole probably knows something is up (there are alerts and whatever), but like the scale, how much time they've really had to process that (and what it means) is wildly up in the air.
They've been doing this for, functionally, infinite time- as long as they can remember. A 'last blast' scenario hammers the meta-narrative home for the audience, but for the people who've been doing this forever? The transition from 'this is our day job' to 'this is a horror beyond imagination' feels really weird. People can't transition their moral framework that fast.
Funnily, what the TVA just did is the same thing Sylvie did when she bombed the sacred timeline. Sylvies mass charges caused a ton of pruning on the timeline causing branches. Their mass bombing is to the branches.
Kind of reinforces the greatest lie line from loki in s1. No one good is every truly good. And no one evil is ever truly evil.
These actions are crimes or solutions depending on perspective.
Yeah, e3 was another home run for me. They really hit that retro vibe with the music and the sets and all the running around. I must echo Voss' praise for Miss Minutes, she was terrific in this episode. Majors' performance was great, I really look forward to seeing more of Kang fleshed out.
I definitely wish more of phase 4 was this good. The fact that they're killing it with Loki just shows they still have some creative juice to squeeze out of Marvel, if only they'd resist the urge to shotgun as much crap onto Disney plus as they can.
E3 was almost good? I get they wanted more of a Chicago caper, but the notes fell a bit flat? I think it was missing a bit of pace? Otherwise you could have had a fun standard straight guy/non straight chase caper?
I get they wanted more of a Chicago caper, but the notes fell a bit flat?
It did feel a bit pressed for time at points.
Particularly the earlier time frame. They walked maybe halfway around a 'block' and just decided there was nothing to find.
It was more than entertaining enough for the set up they're doing, though I'm curious which is the red herring and if the season is going to be too short.
What is canon and what is not to the MCU has been a topic of fervent fan debate for years. Is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which referenced the events of Avengers, actual MCU canon? What about the former Netflix shows like Daredevil, which also made mention of Avengers like Captain America and Thor? Well, we now have an answer to that question from the guy in charge, Kevin Feige. In his introduction to the book Marvel Studios: The Marvel Cinematic Universe—An Official Timeline, he wrote the following:
On the Multiverse note, we recognize that there are stories—movies and series—that are canonical to Marvel but that were created by different storytellers during different periods of Marvel’s history. The timeline presented in this book is specific to the MCU’s Sacred Timeline through Phase 4. But, as we move forward and dive deeper into the Multiverse Saga, you never know when timelines may crash or converge (hint, hint/spoiler alert).
We'll have to wait and see of it actually happens.
The quote doesn't say anything we didn't already know. Marvel Studios content is the MCU "sacred timeline". Everything else is retroactively in the multiverse, including the Marvel TV productions.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's not as if he went on Twitter and posted #COULSONLIVES or something like that.
He gave the diplomatic "It's all part of the multiverse" bit of corporate waffle, and nothing actually changes.
It’s a little bit more than that; the last line implies that they’re certainly thinking about bringing back some bits that they binned off previously. But agree, the headline is massively overstating what was written.
Yeah that scene was... they're doing such a good job of showing some truly horrific stuff and keeping it PG13. Ms Minute's look of genuine delight just made it that much more disconcerting. Ending the episode where they did was so cruel.
My question is, are all those pies key lime?
Because that's just gross.
Also, holy feth the facial expressions.
Where has all this acting (and writing) been in D+ shows (and phase 5 in general)?
No, let me amend that. Why have they been hiding this level of writing? Because that was good. Just... excellent. Things connected, there was tension, consequences, people reacted, acted, plotted, twists, turns. The whole actual product sang.
The best is a episode 4 cliff hanger that wraps up all the loose ends from episode 1 so the next 2 episodes can be anything. I literally have no idea what could possibly happen next.
Everything in all the promo materials has been shown in the show. I am pumped for next week.
Voss wrote: My question is, are all those pies key lime?
Because that's just gross.
Also, holy feth the facial expressions.
Where has all this acting (and writing) been in D+ shows (and phase 5 in general)?
No, let me amend that. Why have they been hiding this level of writing? Because that was good. Just... excellent. Things connected, there was tension, consequences, people reacted, acted, plotted, twists, turns. The whole actual product sang.
Honestly though. If they can produce at this level more consistently, they might just get people to start caring again.
Lance845 wrote: The best is a episode 4 cliff hanger that wraps up all the loose ends from episode 1 so the next 2 episodes can be anything. I literally have no idea what could possibly happen next.
Everything in all the promo materials has been shown in the show. I am pumped for next week.
That cut to black and then the discordant post-modern music? That is a bold, artistic, choice. Literally left me with my mouth open.
Doesn't look particularly interesting, and after Disney's failed attempts to make Boba a proper crimelord I can't really take them seriously in trying to make a crime focused story work out properly. Let's hope this isn't the show equivalent of the terrible The Quiet Man videogame.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly how I felt. It was really interesting seeing everyone go back to the lives they left behind to become TVA agents, and the slow, insidious destruction of... well, everything was creepy and unsettling, but we pretty much end up exactly where the episode began.Very intrigued to see how they end this.
Echo looks brutally violent. Not a bad thing by any means, I just wasn't expecting Punisher vibes. It looks closer to the Netflix Marvel outings than anything Disney + has done. While I wouldn't say I'm excited to watch it, I'll definitely at least try it after that trailer.
Grimskul wrote: Doesn't look particularly interesting, and after Disney's failed attempts to make Boba a proper crimelord I can't really take them seriously in trying to make a crime focused story work out properly. Let's hope this isn't the show equivalent of the terrible The Quiet Man videogame.
The people making Echo are completely different from the people making Boba. False equivalency.
Grimskul wrote: Doesn't look particularly interesting, and after Disney's failed attempts to make Boba a proper crimelord I can't really take them seriously in trying to make a crime focused story work out properly. Let's hope this isn't the show equivalent of the terrible The Quiet Man videogame.
The people making Echo are completely different from the people making Boba. False equivalency.
Quality control for shows on both the MCU and SW front is pretty poor in terms of track record the past couple years barring a few exceptions, so I don't think it's unwarranted to feel this is more of the same. I mean Wilson Fisk's first official showing in the MCU in Hawkeye's TV show wasn't particularly great either so I think it's a bit early to jump out of your seat to defend them that this is going to be "proppa dark and gritty".
Well... that was an ending I didn't quite understand.
Spoiler:
So... it was the loom that was destroying everything? Because it was a failsafe? I'm assuming that's why Loki destroyed it, so that reality would stop turning into spaghetti everywhere. Do I have that right?
I don't at all understand what he did grabbing all the threads at the end and sitting on his space throne. Completely went over my head.
Also, the off hand comment about Earth 616 'adjacent' - was that a reference to the events of Quantumania? Is that what they were talking about? I remember there was a fan theory that Scott didn't actually return to his reality, did he go to an 'adjacent' version?
Not a super satisfying ending to the series for me. I don't know if I wasn't smart enough to connect all the dots or if they were just spinning too many plates at once.
Absolutely loved how they did that. One of the better bits of MCU in a while. As for what happened:
Spoiler:
You've got the right of it. The Loom's purpose is essentially to monitor that the TVA is doing their job. If they don't prune enough timelines in overloads and destroys everything except the Sacred Timeline, including the TVA, so He Who Remains can install a new version of the TVA to do the job properly.
It does however, seem that the branches need tending to survive. Loki in the end weaves them himself into what seems to be Yggdrasil and takes HWR's seat as the keeper of time. Effectively he shapes the multiverse into something that can coexist, much like his father kept watch over the 9 realms.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FYI, as to the how:
Spoiler:
Loki spends the episode mastering HWR's power over time. Initially its only through controlling his Time Skipping, but by the end he starts learning things like the time stop.
I don't think they ever explicitly explain why he can do this but beyond being a god, it's fairly heavily implied it has to do with being at the end of time. Sylvie also seems relatively unaffected by time phenomena. Whenever a thread dies she's more or less fine and walks away from it even after others around her unravel. She's just not motivated to act in any way, wanting to just be left alone and so never starts involuntarily using things like time slipping the way Loki does.
LunarSol wrote: Absolutely loved how they did that. One of the better bits of MCU in a while. As for what happened:
Spoiler:
You've got the right of it. The Loom's purpose is essentially to monitor that the TVA is doing their job. If they don't prune enough timelines in overloads and destroys everything except the Sacred Timeline, including the TVA, so He Who Remains can install a new version of the TVA to do the job properly.
It does however, seem that the branches need tending to survive. Loki in the end weaves them himself into what seems to be Yggdrasil and takes HWR's seat as the keeper of time. Effectively he shapes the multiverse into something that can coexist, much like his father kept watch over the 9 realms.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FYI, as to the how:
Spoiler:
Loki spends the episode mastering HWR's power over time. Initially its only through controlling his Time Skipping, but by the end he starts learning things like the time stop.
I don't think they ever explicitly explain why he can do this but beyond being a god, it's fairly heavily implied it has to do with being at the end of time. Sylvie also seems relatively unaffected by time phenomena. Whenever a thread dies she's more or less fine and walks away from it even after others around her unravel. She's just not motivated to act in any way, wanting to just be left alone and so never starts involuntarily using things like time slipping the way Loki does.
Spoiler:
I loved that Loki’s “loom” is Yggdrasil and it suddenly made me realise that the original, fake, timekeepers are a bit reminiscent of the three Norns (maiden, mother, crone) who, IIRC, are supposed to sit at the feet of Yggdrasil and weave the strands of fate. Which seems to be what this new version of the TVA is doing?
Also, I’m guessing that this works on a practical level for both Marvel and Tom; Loki’s effectively trapped at the end of time, so he’s not written out, but they have a good reason as to why he’s not around. And they can always bring him back in if they want, by saying that the event would threaten the timeline. Also, could be a handy way to retcon stuff, having Loki march in like the Colonel in Monty Python saying “that’s far too silly, stop that!”
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, love that the last episode has the same title as the first one.
I loved that Loki’s “loom” is Yggdrasil and it suddenly made me realise that the original, fake, timekeepers are a bit reminiscent of the three Norns (maiden, mother, crone) who, IIRC, are supposed to sit at the feet of Yggdrasil and weave the strands of fate. Which seems to be what this new version of the TVA is doing?
Also, I’m guessing that this works on a practical level for both Marvel and Tom; Loki’s effectively trapped at the end of time, so he’s not written out, but they have a good reason as to why he’s not around. And they can always bring him back in if they want, by saying that the event would threaten the timeline. Also, could be a handy way to retcon stuff, having Loki march in like the Colonel in Monty Python saying “that’s far too silly, stop that!”
I'll keep the spoiler train rolling, because its honestly a spoiler worthy episode:
Spoiler:
Loki is pretty well set up now for Secret Wars. He's left in a position somewhere between Doom and the Beyonder and well suited to serve a major plot beat somewhere in the story.
Bright, bonkers, brilliant. Nothing exactly original overall, but a well made addition to the MCU.
Interestingly? Carol Danvers kinda fails. A lot. She might be a superhuman in skills and powers, but she’s still human. Bad call after bad call. And those failures have consequences. And a high personal price in the end.
I loved that Loki’s “loom” is Yggdrasil and it suddenly made me realise that the original, fake, timekeepers are a bit reminiscent of the three Norns (maiden, mother, crone) who, IIRC, are supposed to sit at the feet of Yggdrasil and weave the strands of fate. Which seems to be what this new version of the TVA is doing?
Also, I’m guessing that this works on a practical level for both Marvel and Tom; Loki’s effectively trapped at the end of time, so he’s not written out, but they have a good reason as to why he’s not around. And they can always bring him back in if they want, by saying that the event would threaten the timeline. Also, could be a handy way to retcon stuff, having Loki march in like the Colonel in Monty Python saying “that’s far too silly, stop that!”
I'll keep the spoiler train rolling, because its honestly a spoiler worthy episode:
Spoiler:
Loki is pretty well set up now for Secret Wars. He's left in a position somewhere between Doom and the Beyonder and well suited to serve a major plot beat somewhere in the story.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I liked Loki season two. I only had the opportunity to watch four episodes in and figured I'd just wait another two weeks and watch it all in one go. So it's interesting to read about the positive reception, since I noticed I'm usually happier with a show when I binge it (even if it's good at one episode a week).
I can't say I understand the thinking behind all the timeline and multiverse stuff, but eh, it's not like that stuff ever works out anyway. I'm content that it didn't actively get in the way of enjoying the show.
And I definitely agree with a point made earlier, it's good to see Loki use magic once in a while.
A question about Echo. Is that a significant character? Obviously as someone who doesn't read comics I wouldn't know Marvel's more obscure characters. Does she get major appearances in the comics or is this just someone's pet project who liked her in Hawkeye enough to give her her own show or whatever?
I don't even know if she goes by Echo in Hawkeye. That name drew a complete blank until I saw the trailer.
Geifer wrote: A question about Echo. Is that a significant character? Obviously as someone who doesn't read comics I wouldn't know Marvel's more obscure characters. Does she get major appearances in the comics or is this just someone's pet project who liked her in Hawkeye enough to give her her own show or whatever?
I don't even know if she goes by Echo in Hawkeye. That name drew a complete blank until I saw the trailer.
She was (might still be?) The host of the Phoenix Force.
I am not super familiar with her otherwise, but thats a pretty central role.
Geifer wrote: A question about Echo. Is that a significant character? Obviously as someone who doesn't read comics I wouldn't know Marvel's more obscure characters. Does she get major appearances in the comics or is this just someone's pet project who liked her in Hawkeye enough to give her her own show or whatever?
I don't even know if she goes by Echo in Hawkeye. That name drew a complete blank until I saw the trailer.
She's definitely a D-lister at best. Probably her most notable appearance was being the mysterious Ronin in the New Avengers series that really defined the age of Marvel that the MCU was birthed out of. I know that sounds like something important, but in reality Ronin was supposed to be Daredevil (and obviously written as Daredevil) but Bendis didn't get permission so he had to find a DD adjacent character to use instead. That doesn't make her a bad character mind you, just one who's gotten little attention until recently.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Overall I think I’d rather “too few” and they be taking the time to get things right than “well, if we cut corners” just to get two in a year.
Wonder what TV shows are slated for next year?
NWO apparently didn't go over well with test audiences at all and is being heavily reworked.
The rumor mill is that Mahershala Ali was furious that his role as the title character was more of a support/mentor role and not really a movie at all about Blade at all. Sounds like that one is going back to the drawing board.
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I think it's definitely meant to be an ending. One where they can do more, but its meant to be a sacrifice much like how HWR's wanted to be done with the job.
Spoiler:
This isn't in the show at all, but both HWR and Loki are effectively serving the role of Atlez from the comics. He's literally just a guy that sits on a throne to prevent the multiverse from falling into the abyss.
Loki's decision here is definitely framed as a sacrifice. Even if he doesn't die, he's giving up his life so that the multiverse can live.
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I think it's definitely meant to be an ending. One where they can do more, but its meant to be a sacrifice much like how HWR's wanted to be done with the job.
Well, yes, obviously. But beyond 'this is an ending and its a sacrifice'... what is there to say? That's what I mean by abrupt and a stack of questions with no worthwhile answers.
Its over and just sort of yadda-yaddas (and off-screen montages) its way out.
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I think it's definitely meant to be an ending. One where they can do more, but its meant to be a sacrifice much like how HWR's wanted to be done with the job.
Well, yes, obviously. But beyond 'this is an ending and its a sacrifice'... what is there to say? That's what I mean by abrupt and a stack of questions with no worthwhile answers.
Its over and just sort of yadda-yaddas (and off-screen montages) its way out.
And that's the issue with multiverses and time travel. In theory, we could have Loki Ygg grab a variant Loki, and send him on whatever adventure needs doing. Or, just training and grooming a replacement Loki to take his place, and the original returns to the movies and series.
My personal theory about the time thing?
Spoiler:
Sylvi's got HWR tempad, which probably incorporates protection from most time shenanigans. Loki on the other hand- was likely enhanced by HWR with the express idea of Loki eventually taking his place. No other variants exhibit time powers, nor does the Loki Variant until after encountering HWR. OB comments he's like an upgraded Tempad, which may support it. Otherwise, pure conjecture on my part.
Sylvi's got HWR tempad, which probably incorporates protection from most time shenanigans. Loki on the other hand- was likely enhanced by HWR with the express idea of Loki eventually taking his place. No other variants exhibit time powers, nor does the Loki Variant until after encountering HWR. OB comments he's like an upgraded Tempad, which may support it. Otherwise, pure conjecture on my part.
I think in terms of D+ it was a pretty good evil villain plan. It is only defeated by the hero giving up his life for eternity. And in a far worse way than Evil Villain, who presumably could pop out whenever he fancied or have fun battling himself (he probably thought it was fun). They also did a good job of showing he wasn't passively dying, since he knew he had set things up to unmake that ending.
And that's the issue with multiverses and time travel. In theory, we could have Loki Ygg grab a variant Loki, and send him on whatever adventure needs doing. Or, just training and grooming a replacement Loki to take his place, and the original returns to the movies and series.
That already happened. The "original" was killed by Thanos. This is a variant replacement Loki already.
Non-trivial sources reporting Pedro Pascal has signed on for Reed Richards, which is fresh off the back of rumours he was going to play an even more reduced role in the next series of Mando.
Not many people watched Ms. Marvel (and, honestly, other than the first and last episodes, it wasn't very good), but anyone who did see it would not find Iman's good-ness unexpected. She was amazing in the show.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What-If Season 2 (I think?) debuts on D+ on 22 December, with one new episode a day for 9 days.
About a month after my D+ subscription comes to an end.
Interesting.
"Hoist the mainsail! Crews to their stations! We be sailing the high seas once again boys..."
Azreal13 wrote: Non-trivial sources reporting Pedro Pascal has signed on for Reed Richards, which is fresh off the back of rumours he was going to play an even more reduced role in the next series of Mando.
Where's that picture of Stark's face collapsing after talking to the Guardians in Infinity War when you need it?
Pedro Pascal is currently being eyed to play Reed Richards, aka Mr. Fantastic, a brilliant scientist who gains the ability to bend and stretch his body like rubber following exposure to gamma rays during a scientific expedition to outer space.
Easy E wrote: I think She-Hulk gets panned unfairly.
It has some very smart writing behind it. You can not de-construct the way they do, without first knowing how the thing you are de-constructing works.
They knew how it worked, and that is going to get a reaction. Probably a negative one.
I'm 4 episodes in and enjoying it so far. It's definitely nothing like a Hulk series would have been though, so I can see that being jarring for people.
Easy E wrote: I think She-Hulk gets panned unfairly.
It has some very smart writing behind it. You can not de-construct the way they do, without first knowing how the thing you are de-constructing works.
They knew how it worked, and that is going to get a reaction. Probably a negative one.
I'm 4 episodes in and enjoying it so far. It's definitely nothing like a Hulk series would have been though, so I can see that being jarring for people.
Yeah but it is EXACTLY what a She Hulk series would be. They basically took her right off the page.
Surely there's not much point in having the same character twice or wanting a not-Hulk show to be a Hulk show but then not star Hulk. Kind of an odd thing to complain about.
Easy E wrote: I think She-Hulk gets panned unfairly.
It has some very smart writing behind it. You can not de-construct the way they do, without first knowing how the thing you are de-constructing works.
They knew how it worked, and that is going to get a reaction. Probably a negative one.
I'm 4 episodes in and enjoying it so far. It's definitely nothing like a Hulk series would have been though, so I can see that being jarring for people.
Yeah but it is EXACTLY what a She Hulk series would be. They basically took her right off the page.
Indeed it's what it *should* be. But I do wonder how many people went into it expecting more smashing.
I've finished watching it now and I have to admit that whilst I enjoyed it, the 4th wall stuff was just a bit much especially later on.
Sure. But I can't think of a single piece video promo material for she hulk that did not at least feature her and hulk looking at the camera after the one comment or her looking up from her phone to the camera saying "I am not proud of this" or both.
If you went into She Hulk as it was being released having seen ANY of the promo material you should know exactly what you were getting.
One of She-Hulk's powers is literally breaking the fourth wall. It is as much a part of the character as it is for Deadpool (but maybe not as snarky as he is).
It's also just the next logical fandom bubble. Comic movies have really grown out of a fandom cultivated by the early 90's comic bubble and in particularly the excellent trio of Batman/X-Men/Spider-Man animated series. Video games started to hit their cultural stride in the decades that follow and are the logical follow up for what 20-30 somethings were into as kids that can be given the "like you remember them" treatment.
This is basically how big entertainment trends have always worked. Before comics it was lone soldier action stories. Before that we had crime thrillers, noir detectives and the westerns before that. Each generation essentially taking their kids stuff and giving it legitimacy by treating it as series as it felt to them when they were young.
Video game movies being a mainstream focus is still in its infancy. As much money as the Mario movie made, it was still fairly simplistic. As faithful as The Last of Us was (most of the time), it ended up cutting out too many the cathartic action sequences. Twisted Metal was tons of fun, with had a great cast, but I can't speak to if it was in any way faithful to the games. And the less said about the multiple dumpster fires created in an attempt to adapt or reinterpret the Resident Evil series, the better.
Comic book movies took a long time to solidify and get make correctly. I fear we've got a few more years of Uncharted and Monster Hunters before we start to get really good films. The upcoming Fallout TV series will be an interesting test. It's an Amazon series, so it's a 50/50 coin flip on whether you're going to get The Boys/Invincible, or Wheel of Time/Rings of Fanfiction, so we'll have to wait and see there.
Lance845 wrote: If you went into She Hulk as it was being released having seen ANY of the promo material you should know exactly what you were getting.
I was expecting a Legal Comedy. The show was neither. It was mostly fanbaiting trash.
There are more Resi films/TV projects beyond the Paul W. S. Anderson films. Don't forget that (or do, because they're much much worse! ).
And look, you can defend them as something you like whilst acknowledging that they're not good films. I love the Fast series. I know that most of them are terrible (5 is a masterpiece though), but I still love them.
Ghaz wrote: One of She-Hulk's powers is literally breaking the fourth wall. It is as much a part of the character as it is for Deadpool (but maybe not as snarky as he is).
But only when in her own series!
As soon as she's having an adventure in someone else's book, or is a member of a team in the team's book, she loses that power.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There are more Resi films/TV projects beyond the Paul W. S. Anderson films. Don't forget that (or do, because they're much much worse! ).
And look, you can defend them as something you like whilst acknowledging that they're not good films. I love the Fast series. I know that most of them are terrible (5 is a masterpiece though), but I still love them.
Raccoon City was dire. No disputing that.
Oh, Hi Albert Wesker! How are you!
I’m great Leon Kennedy! Say, do you know where Jill Valentine is?
Gee Albert, I’m not sure. Hey. Maybe Ada Wong has seen her! Oh Ada Wong!
Yes Leon Kennedy?
Have you seen Jill Valentine, Ada Wong? Only Albert Wesker is asking for her!
Ghaz wrote: One of She-Hulk's powers is literally breaking the fourth wall. It is as much a part of the character as it is for Deadpool (but maybe not as snarky as he is).
I like She-Hulk for the most part, but the end was just too much for me. Talking to the audience on a meta level is one thing, but stepping out of the show's reality into the real life production facilities is a whole different story. Maybe that's fine for people who are into the comics. I wouldn't know. But I very much doubt that the general audience is into that kind of stuff.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’d also argue the two live action Silent Hill movies are surprisingly good, and decent enough adaptations which capture the other worldly weirdness.
I really like the first one. I have no idea how faithful it is to the games, but as a movie it's proper good. If we were to see a video game adaptation craze after superheroes, I might just put up Silent Hill as the best example from an era that generally didn't produce good video game adaptations or particularly good movies that just failed their source material.
Oddly enough I'm quite happy with Doom as well. It has some issues but can stand on its own as an action movie.
Ghaz wrote: One of She-Hulk's powers is literally breaking the fourth wall. It is as much a part of the character as it is for Deadpool (but maybe not as snarky as he is).
I like She-Hulk for the most part, but the end was just too much for me. Talking to the audience on a meta level is one thing, but stepping out of the show's reality into the real life production facilities is a whole different story. Maybe that's fine for people who are into the comics. I wouldn't know. But I very much doubt that the general audience is into that kind of stuff.
That was pretty much my thought as well, most of the nods were fine but the KEVIN stuff just seemed like such a pointless diversion. I only really kept watching at that point because there was only a few mins left of the series. That it fits in with the canon is fair enough but I wonder how many of the general audience would know and appreciate that. But then we're getting into who the media is produced for - the fans of the source material or the mass market providing the mass market money?
I will caveat that by ackowledging that I've never really been a comic book reader (I bought many to display the art), but I'd have thought I was more on the pulse than the general population when it came to comic knowledge.
I love the first few Res Evil films - stylish, good action, good music - so for me they are "good Films" - others may have an opinion including critics but thats all it is and should be valued no higher than that
Part of the problem with the Resi films is just that when they were released the games were a lot more restrained and the films felt like generic Matrix knock off action of the time rather than anything that felt like Resident Evil. They're fun movies, but don't feel particularly authentic or capture what made the franchise feel unique at the time.
Comic movies had a whole era of trying to remove what makes people love comic books to make them palatable for a wider audience but didn't really explode until they learned to translate it and the technology made it possible. Videogames have generally been in the same spot and it will be interesting to see how long it takes them to learn the same lessons. Mario seemed to get it, but Sonic has been determined to anchor itself around weird human subplots that show a lack of confidence in the source material.
Blade is great. I think what makes it so hard to categorize is that its both something of a trend setter but a chaser at the same time. The character was just a really good fit for the style of the era with a comic book character who doesn't really have much in the way of comic book elements to adapt. It feels like it could be an original property rather than an adaptation of existing material.
Ghaz wrote: One of She-Hulk's powers is literally breaking the fourth wall. It is as much a part of the character as it is for Deadpool (but maybe not as snarky as he is).
I like She-Hulk for the most part, but the end was just too much for me. Talking to the audience on a meta level is one thing, but stepping out of the show's reality into the real life production facilities is a whole different story. Maybe that's fine for people who are into the comics. I wouldn't know. But I very much doubt that the general audience is into that kind of stuff.
YMMV and thats fair.
But...
her leaving her medium and addressing the creators has a lot of precedent. She-Hulk show true to the source material did exactly what it should do.
Lance845 wrote: She-Hulk show true to the source material did exactly what it should do.
That doesn't mean the show was any good.
Which again, a thing I said in the post you quoted, YMMV. But I enjoyed She Hulk. I thought it was a lot of fun. I also thought how it managed to use comedy while putting her through the stages of grief was well done. You don't have to like it. But it was well put together and bought the character to the screen.
Since She-Hulk directly made fun of Marvel fans, I can see why a lot o them did not like it.
As a filthy casual, I found it amusing how Meta and de-constructive it was; but all that said I would be stretching to call it "good". It was clever, but I would say ultimately a failure even though it was pretty impressive.
Easy E wrote: Since She-Hulk directly made fun of Marvel fans, I can see why a lot o them did not like it.
No it strawmanned a villain out of nothing, and poisoned the well right until the very end. The entire show was built around fanbaiting rather than telling a good story, being a good legal show, or being a funny comedy.
Easy E wrote: Since She-Hulk directly made fun of Marvel fans, I can see why a lot o them did not like it.
No it strawmanned a villain out of nothing, and poisoned the well right until the very end. The entire show was built around fanbaiting rather than telling a good story, being a good legal show, or being a funny comedy.
It's okay I thought it was OK with some clever meta commentary, and you did not like it and thought that same meta-commentary was stupid and offensive.
I encourage others to judge for themselves if they want to spend the time. No big deal to me if they watch it or they don't.
I enjoyed it, but didn’t love it. Many of the guest characters were more interesting than She Hulk, and especially Wongers and Madisynn overshadowed her. The last episode was an ambitious failure in my opinion, but I’m strangely drawn to those.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I enjoyed it, but didn’t love it. Many of the guest characters were more interesting than She Hulk, and especially Wongers and Madisynn overshadowed her. The last episode was an ambitious failure in my opinion, but I’m strangely drawn to those.
The finale for me was an MCU “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” finale.
Not everyone will get it.
Others will get it, and not find it funny.
Others yet will find it hilarious.
I’m very much in the third camp, but understand the other two.
What makes me question the end of She-Hulk is that there isn't much of a tradition for that in movies and TV. You say Monty Python. I think I can throw in Looney Tunes. But who else tears down the fictional reality like that? I'm sure there are more examples, but in my opinion it's not something that happens with enough frequency to affect viewer expectations. Me, I'd place it more firmly in theater where stepping outside the bounds of the narrative to talk to the audience has more appeal and potential payoff because there is an actual audience to interact with.
Which is to say of course you can do it, and if you're Monty Python your audience may have been exposed to enough oddball stuff to not be thrown off by it. Similarly, for the portion that knows Marvel comics, it may not be a big deal for She-Hulk to end the way it does. Probably appreciate if for being true to the comics, too. It's just that you have a part of the audience for whom it goes entirely against expectations and conventions of the medium. It strikes me as a risk to go all out on something that has a significant chance of failing in the eyes of a significant part of the audience, You may call it art, but the true art to art is selling it to the audience.
Like I said, it didn't work for me. That's just my reaction. To each their own and all that. But if I were to be catered to, I'd rather be eased into She-Hulk's reality-altering power instead of getting jumped by it at the last minute. I don't think there was any build up to that at all. There's a reason why deus ex machina is such a tough sell. She-Hulk is barely any better. She retains the ability to influence the outcome, but does so by means dropped at a moment's notice on the unsuspecting part of the audience. That doesn't strike me as particularly well crafted, even if the ability to completely step outside the narrative agreed with me.
Hulk Hogan forcing the Gremlins to turn the movie back on? Duck Amuck also springs to mind, though almost anything pales in comparison to that masterpiece.
To me it worked specifically because of the way it used the Disney+ app to facilitate the 4th wall break. That all really worked for me, though once they set the new finale in motion I wouldn't say it was as satisfying as the actual 4th wall reveal.
I enjoyed the show for what it was, but its not like the She Hulk comics are a top tier franchise either. They're funny and clever but they've never been so funny and clever as to be wildly popular. I'd definitely like to see more one and done courtroom drama episodes next time around, as this kind of story just isn't super well suited to an overarching plot.
I actually just watched Loki season 2 over the past few days, and I enjoyed it but not as much as the first season. And I don't entirely know why but when the timelines were coming apart everything turning into strings was actually bothering me the same way some people are bothered by clusters of little holes. *shudder*
As for which MCU series was my favorite, I'd have to say Moon Knight, in spite of the near total lack of tie-ins to the wider MCU. Oscar Isaac was awesome, and the story was fun. I'm hoping we get at least one more season, but from what I've heard they aren't even working on one currently.
Not long after s1 there was something about Oscar Issac and the director being back in Egypt and one of them said something along the lines of s2. Why else would we be here?
Now... That may now be reworked into a movie. Or they may be early in script writing/pitches still. But my understanding is they are working on it. Just early in preproduction.
I really want to see the black underarmor suit for Jake.
Marvel Studios just concluded a special preview event for the release of What If...? season 2 and also confirmed a surprise animation project is on the way.
Attendees were treated to the first 2 episodes of the new What If...? season.
After the screening, an animated Black Panther series titled Eyes of Wakanda was revealed and confirmed to be released on Disney+ in 2024.
It was also revealed that Spider-Man: Freshman Year has been retitled Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. It will also be released in 2024, along with X-Men 97'. At SDCC 2022, it was announced that a second season of Freshman Year, aptly titled Spider-Man: Sophomore Year was also in development.
ZergSmasher wrote: I actually just watched Loki season 2 over the past few days, and I enjoyed it but not as much as the first season. And I don't entirely know why but when the timelines were coming apart everything turning into strings was actually bothering me the same way some people are bothered by clusters of little holes. *shudder*
As for which MCU series was my favorite, I'd have to say Moon Knight, in spite of the near total lack of tie-ins to the wider MCU. Oscar Isaac was awesome, and the story was fun. I'm hoping we get at least one more season, but from what I've heard they aren't even working on one currently.
I loved the way it would skip fights. Honestly at this point if I never see another MCU fist fight every again I would be happy.
Geifer wrote: What makes me question the end of She-Hulk is that there isn't much of a tradition for that in movies and TV. You say Monty Python. I think I can throw in Looney Tunes. But who else tears down the fictional reality like that? I'm sure there are more examples, but in my opinion it's not something that happens with enough frequency to affect viewer expectations. Me, I'd place it more firmly in theater where stepping outside the bounds of the narrative to talk to the audience has more appeal and potential payoff because there is an actual audience to interact with.
Which is to say of course you can do it, and if you're Monty Python your audience may have been exposed to enough oddball stuff to not be thrown off by it. Similarly, for the portion that knows Marvel comics, it may not be a big deal for She-Hulk to end the way it does. Probably appreciate if for being true to the comics, too. It's just that you have a part of the audience for whom it goes entirely against expectations and conventions of the medium. It strikes me as a risk to go all out on something that has a significant chance of failing in the eyes of a significant part of the audience, You may call it art, but the true art to art is selling it to the audience.
Like I said, it didn't work for me. That's just my reaction. To each their own and all that. But if I were to be catered to, I'd rather be eased into She-Hulk's reality-altering power instead of getting jumped by it at the last minute. I don't think there was any build up to that at all. There's a reason why deus ex machina is such a tough sell. She-Hulk is barely any better. She retains the ability to influence the outcome, but does so by means dropped at a moment's notice on the unsuspecting part of the audience. That doesn't strike me as particularly well crafted, even if the ability to completely step outside the narrative agreed with me.
4th wall breaks? Outside Monty Python and Looney Tunes, there's Deadpool obviously, and Mel Brooks has a habit of them as well. And that's the thing. 4th wallbreaks work in some types of comedy, and I guess Deadpool because he's nuts even if the story can be more or less serious. I don't think it works for She-Hulk. Not for me anyway.
I suppose we can expect an announcement from Disney/Marvel about the recasting of Kang or a change of direction for the MCU in the near future.
Been quite a rollercoaster. As the information came out and how it was framed, I admit I flipflopped on his guilt/innocence throughout this ordeal.
Recent podcasts that I listen to went over some of his text exchanges with the victim(as mentioned in the article), and this dude is top shelf manipulative narcissist. Now a jury's decision can add physically abusive on top of that.
I'm seriously baffled by his stupidity. Young, very talented, already broke out into the most successful film franchise in movie history, and blows it all up because he likes to hit women. All of the cameos, press tours, interviews, not to mention the roles he would have gotten afterwards - MILLIONS of dollars down the hole. What a complete fething idiot.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I hope they recast Kang rather than trying to rewrite the already-failing phases 5 and 6.
There were rumors floating around of a potential pivot to Doctor Doom as the big bad instead.
With the way Loki finished up, they could very easily just relegate Kang to the background as a looming threat that never actually materialises because of Loki.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I hope they recast Kang rather than trying to rewrite the already-failing phases 5 and 6.
There were rumors floating around of a potential pivot to Doctor Doom as the big bad instead.
With the way Loki finished up, they could very easily just relegate Kang to the background as a looming threat that never actually materialises because of Loki.
Agreed, seeing as Doctor Doom was the Big Bad of both Secret Wars series that Marvel published.
Loki season one where Kang was introduced also told us that different actors can play the different variants. You had some Lokis who were still Tom, but many who weren’t. No reason all the Kangs have to be the same guy, we just don’t get more of He Who Remains.
In November, Marvel hired Loki creator Michael Waldron to work on a new draft of what was once called Kang Dynasty, but is now being referred to as Avengers 5, according to sources.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On could argue that with Loki now the God of Time, that’s Kang stopped in his tracks?
Not necessarily the most dramatic of endings, like. But a potential ending.
I don't think so. The end of Loki 2 has them talking about how the Council of Kangs hasn't noticed them yet.
And Deadpool 3 is basically done and that includes a plot of recruiting heroes to fight the council.
I think Kang is still happening. I ALSO think Doom is happening. I just don't think thats a pivot. I think that was always the plan. Kangs take the place of the beyonders to tear reality apart and Doom makes a batleworld that has to be fought off as the final big bad.
I assumed Secret Wars was a way to introduce Doom regardless. He's way too integral to every variation of the name to not take the opportunity even with Kang as the expected baddie.
That said, I'm kind of okay with Marvel just moving on. There's a lot of ways to wrap up the multiverse and just do something else. All the incursion stuff that actually ends in Secret Wars hasn't really mattered so just... do something else. It's fine.
It's true, you wouldn't be able to release Tropic Thunder today, so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of younger folk don't know the reference to that classic (makes you realize you're old when it was released way back in 2008).
The benefit to Tropic Thunder is that (at least in my experience) people either do or don't know about Tropic Thunder at all these days.
If they know, you've usually seen it and caught all the gags behind the Kirk Lazarus joke which plays in perfectly with what Tropic Thunder is (a giant spoof about Hollywood and blockbuster movies).
If they don't know, they don't know so they're not being upset about it.
And when people do know, the joke is pretty easy to explain and genuinely works so RDJ's performance as a dude playing a dude pretending to be another dude kind of serves as a fantastic send off to blackface in film.
The movie probably couldn't be made today, but that's more reason to appreciate that it was made when it was and made the way it was.
I don't buy the "it couldn't be made today". You see that about a lot of movies and yet every few years you get a movie that will inevitably be described as "that couldn't be made today". It wasn't like blackface was socially acceptable when Tropic Thunder came out but now it is seen as wrong. It was bad then and it was a movie making fun of it. Just because some people have trouble distinguishing mocking racism and actual racism is no reason not mock racism.
I think the modern day issue is just that the joke would be endlessly dissected long before people got to see it. Imagine how many clickbait articles you'd have to wade through for months; how many hours of angry YouTube/TikTok video soundbites shaping the narrative of the film. It's not that the joke doesn't work today; it holds up maybe better now than it did when it was first released; its that people's opinions aren't shaped by the joke itself as much as the narrative built long before they see it.
LunarSol wrote: I think the modern day issue is just that the joke would be endlessly dissected long before people got to see it. Imagine how many clickbait articles you'd have to wade through for months; how many hours of angry YouTube/TikTok video soundbites shaping the narrative of the film. It's not that the joke doesn't work today; it holds up maybe better now than it did when it was first released; its that people's opinions aren't shaped by the joke itself as much as the narrative built long before they see it.
This is my thinking as well.
The Internet and the way it works especially encourage loud and outrageous knee jerk reactions and trumpet them loud. People start arguing about the reaction itself or the principle behind it and whatever they were reacting to in the first place becomes lost in translation.
I like the film noir hardboiled detective vibe they had for Nebula.
Spoiler:
Nova Prime betraying the Corp didn't feel fleshed out enough.
Also, featuring the Nova Corp just re-emphasized the MCU's problem of introducing then destroying long-standing characters/organizations for no great reason. Nova Corp gets introduced in GotG and is a big part of the story. They got destroyed offscreen in a sentence in Infinity War.
Yeah, E4 is my favorite so far. It's almost ike a remix of Ragnarok, one of my favorite MCU movies. The Star Lord episode was also great. Wasn't too keen on the Happy Hogan episode, I feel like that one should have been called what if Hulk blood saved Christmas instead.
Ahtman wrote: I don't buy the "it couldn't be made today". You see that about a lot of movies and yet every few years you get a movie that will inevitably be described as "that couldn't be made today". It wasn't like blackface was socially acceptable when Tropic Thunder came out but now it is seen as wrong. It was bad then and it was a movie making fun of it. Just because some people have trouble distinguishing mocking racism and actual racism is no reason not mock racism.
Me neither. People said the same thing about Blazing Saddle. Mel Brooks' response was always something along the lines of "we couldn't really make it back then either but we made it anyway".
Seems about right, tbh.
Today's episode was... OK. My big problem with Cpt Carter is that they keep inserting her into Steve's stories as if 'wouldn't it be cool if Cap were a woman?' is a good enough idea to squeeze an interesting story out of, but it just isn't. It would be so easy to do it too.
Like... she's British, maybe do something with that. We've already seen them touch on the Partition in the Ms. Marvel show, there's like a whole episode of Khamala's family talking about the chaos that followed the end of British rule. Do something there. Have Cpt Carter fight a villain borne out of an event like that. It would be so easy to do, and that kind of anti-imperialist theme fits right into Disney's wheelhouse. They love injecting politics into whatever they can.
Just... do something - anything - with the character where you can't just swap her out for Steve and tell the same story.
Today’s episode was pretty cool! MCU’s first original character, apparently.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It does take some narrative and style cues from Prey though.
But, given Prey kicks more shades of ass than there are shades in the Citadel and Vallejo paint ranges put together, taking into account every paint each range has or ever will release? That’s absolutely no bad thing!
It does take some narrative and style cues from Prey though.
Might be a location difference, but that was pretty rote standard Native American tropes to me. I was honestly surprised at the cultural consultation note, because it was so very standardized.
With the addition of the comic problem of supers vs normals always feels like untouchable bullying despite how obviously mustache twirling evil the normals are.
Then I realized she didn't matter at all- the people there already had both the mcguffin and the mystery box, so could have fixed everything on their own a lot sooner than they did.
Not a bad finale. I prefer season one’s myself, this one was a bit too busy. Think we’ll see that Hulk’s story in the already announced season 3 or was that someone I should have already recognized?
Solid finale. Of the 9 episodes we got, I didn't care for 3 of them and I think that's a pretty good track record. The Ragnarok remix was probably my favorite episode, with 1602 and Quill rounding out my top 3 for this season.
Meh. The season didn't really need a finale in any way, and this was just throwing literally everything at the wall in a way that felt absurdly unnecessary.
The one and done nature of the comics allowed for more interesting stories than just stepping stones for a 'bigger' narrative (that's ultimately just as curtailed by the seasonal structure)
Another name is being rumored as possibly taking the place of Jonathan Majors as Kang in the MCU and IMHO it's a good one...
Spoiler:
... and that is Colman Domingo, who's spent the last 8 years playing Victor Strand on Fear the Walking Dead. Honestly if they do recast, I can't think of anyone better at the moment.
Got to say, my favorite What Ifs are the ones with Darcy. Then the other lighter episodes.
I could have done without the serious and end of the world stuff. Except noir Nebula. She needs to be serious. And grumpy. And seriously grumpy. So that was great.
Season two felt pretty weak in its second half to me.
Voss wrote: 1602 felt interesting up until the end.
Then I realized she didn't matter at all- the people there already had both the mcguffin and the mystery box, so could have fixed everything on their own a lot sooner than they did.
Captain Carter felt especially pointless in that episode. Of all the people you could bring in to solve a world-ending mystery, they go with the one whose primary skill is punching stuff...
You say "starting". Others say "being unceremoniously dumped in January because they know it's trash".
Ghaz wrote: ... and that is Colman Domingo, who's spent the last 8 years playing Victor Strand on Fear the Walking Dead. Honestly if they do recast, I can't think of anyone better at the moment.
I just hope that whatever they do, that they do recast. They've already made one terrible mistake not recasting a character. It'd be a shame to repeat that mistake and lose out on yet another great character.
And the MCU is on life support. They need to complete the drive with Kang, not just toss him to the side as if he were no big deal and then spend the next phase and a half developing a completely different Big Bad. That'd be like getting to the Third Down and then deciding the next best thing your team can do is abandon the field and go and play ice hockey instead.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You say "starting". Others say "being unceremoniously dumped in January because they know it's trash".
Ghaz wrote: ... and that is Colman Domingo, who's spent the last 8 years playing Victor Strand on Fear the Walking Dead. Honestly if they do recast, I can't think of anyone better at the moment.
I just hope that whatever they do, that they do recast. They've already made one terrible mistake not recasting a character. It'd be a shame to repeat that mistake and lose out on yet another great character.
And the MCU is on life support. They need to complete the drive with Kang, not just toss him to the side as if he were no big deal and then spend the next phase and a half developing a completely different Big Bad. That'd be like getting to the Third Down and then deciding the next best thing your team can do is abandon the field and go and play ice hockey instead.
TBH I've not got any particular interest in hearing what certain doomsayer youtube cbn's have to say. The Marvel stuff is all visual wallpaper - always was, always will be and the same goes for the DC stuff. I have it on when I paint. I don't care if I miss bits, because they don't matter anyway - they're just going to retcon something away in the next lot.
chromedog wrote: ... certain doomsayer youtube cbn's have to say.
You don't need Youtube to see the dire state the MCU is in.
To deny the dire state of the MCU and SW is to deny reality itself. Not sure what a cbn is, but the general movie watching, D+ subscribing, and merchandise buying normies have largely checked out of both franchises and the diehard fans are more interested in commiserating with each other than supporting the franchises. It's objectively provable that the majority of the audience has left. You can look at movie grosses, as well as the piles of unsold merch at discount stores. Neckbeards and normies are aligned in not being interested in supporting the latest offerings from either franchise. The main difference is neckbeards are angry and normies are apathetic.
Not just those two franchises, either. Star Wars, Mission Impossible, Fast and Furious, Pixar, Dreamworks, all dying. The streaming wars (and the pandemic, and the economy, and the new breed of CEOs) left very few surviving evergreen IPs.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Not just those two franchises, either. Star Wars, Mission Impossible, Fast and Furious, Pixar, Dreamworks, all dying. The streaming wars (and the pandemic, and the economy, and the new breed of CEOs) left very few surviving evergreen IPs.
Mission Impossible was up against a weird cultural phenomena (Barbenheimer) so didn't do that well financially, but unlike all the others mentioned the vast majority that saw the picture seemed to be incredibly positive about. Thye others may be slipping but MI still seems to be making well crafted event driven films. Marvel, SW, F&F, and even Pixar seem to be having trouble on that front.
Kingpin is in it, so it can’t be all bad. Other than that? I’m currently entirely agnostic.
It’s out tonight, the 9th.
Got to keep in mind people's location. We Europeans live in the future, and Disney+ shows localized release dates. It's the 10th here when it's still the 9th in Murica.
What's it been, less than half a year since Disney shifted their release times? Still a bit new that stuff goes up on a US Tuesday evening when it's already Wednesday in Europe.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Not just those two franchises, either. Star Wars, Mission Impossible, Fast and Furious, Pixar, Dreamworks, all dying. The streaming wars (and the pandemic, and the economy, and the new breed of CEOs) left very few surviving evergreen IPs.
Mission Impossible was up against a weird cultural phenomena (Barbenheimer) so didn't do that well financially, but unlike all the others mentioned the vast majority that saw the picture seemed to be incredibly positive about. Thye others may be slipping but MI still seems to be making well crafted event driven films. Marvel, SW, F&F, and even Pixar seem to be having trouble on that front.
Fast and Furious might have had its own, distinct problems. It's only half a movie and dialed back the outrageous nonsense (a bit). It might have struggled to meet expectations even if moviegoers had overall been more generous last year.
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