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Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 03:12:33


Post by: First Among Gators


I didn't say they were 30 pts... and there is more measure to a unit than whether it can solo kill a character in a 1v1 in a single turn. Rippers are the same price and I've never had them kill anything at all. Lictors move around fast and hard, deepstrike, score well, can do damage and are above all are extremely cheap. Deathleaper is cool too for what he adds, but they are different units.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 03:18:32


Post by: Amishprn86


 First Among Gators wrote:
I didn't say they were 30 pts... and there is more measure to a unit than whether it can solo kill a character in a 1v1 in a single turn. Rippers are the same price and I've never had them kill anything at all. Lictors move around fast and hard, deepstrike, score well, can do damage and are above all are extremely cheap. Deathleaper is cool too for what he adds, but they are different units.


Rippers also are harder to LoS see, has a total of 9 wounds and are troops, you are force to take troops for CP, so filling in 1-2 extra Rippers is never a problem. Brigades are easy for us and if you want them for Brigades, then that is 100% fine IMO. Especially if you already are taking Hiveguard unit and another elite. with 1 Fleet.

The 30 vs 34pts was for everyone not you. I've seen many say "sweet they are 30pts" and forget to add in the weapons.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 04:09:23


Post by: First Among Gators


I understand clearly the difference between the two, and the costs associated with both. I think Lictors are going to quite good now, thats all.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 04:26:24


Post by: Badablack


Personally I can’t justify Lictors as a cheap elite filler with the updated Pyrovore in the same slot. 75 points gets you a durable unit that will tear apart hordes. Put them in front of a melee blob like boyz or genestealers and they’ll decimate it with overwatch then take out 5 more with acid and explosions. Double shoot them at obnoxious planes. Their only drawback is a terrible model.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 04:48:33


Post by: Amishprn86


 Badablack wrote:
Personally I can’t justify Lictors as a cheap elite filler with the updated Pyrovore in the same slot. 75 points gets you a durable unit that will tear apart hordes. Put them in front of a melee blob like boyz or genestealers and they’ll decimate it with overwatch then take out 5 more with acid and explosions. Double shoot them at obnoxious planes. Their only drawback is a terrible model.


Completely agree


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 06:10:33


Post by: First Among Gators


Couldn't disagree more. Pyrovores are playable now, but not super-ultra-must-include-maximum-every-list type good, or good enough to completely exclude other things in the elite slot from the discussion. Besides, who is only running 1 detachment? Should have ample elite slots to go around, even if you do feel that strongly about Pyrovore's being must-haves.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 06:31:01


Post by: Amishprn86


 First Among Gators wrote:
Couldn't disagree more. Pyrovores are playable now, but not super-ultra-must-include-maximum-every-list type good, or good enough to completely exclude other things in the elite slot from the discussion. Besides, who is only running 1 detachment? Should have ample elite slots to go around, even if you do feel that strongly about Pyrovore's being must-haves.


But Lictors are also not super-ultra-must-include-maximum-every-list type good either.....

Thats the points, for 5pts less and useful as counter charge unit, they IMO are more worth wild.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 06:40:55


Post by: First Among Gators


Okay... I didn't say that Lictors are that... At no point in my post did I say anything about Lictors being so good that you can no longer take justify certain other things in the Elite slot, which is exactly what you and he just said about Pyrovores when considering Lictors. In fact, I'm pretty sure I just said the opposite, when I pointed out there is ample elite slots to go around.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 06:54:53


Post by: Amishprn86


You are caring way to much about this, we all know we have enough slots, no one cares about "lack of slots" in 8th. At this point i said what i wanted too, i dont feel Lictors are worth taking for any reason atm. Maybe i the future i might, but currently i see no reason.

PS you literallt said "I think Lictors are going to quite good now, thats all" so yeah you kinda did.

Ok i lied, there is always the Rule of Cool!

I have a Behemoth Rule of Cool army, that is all DSing (well 1/2 my army) with loads of walking Hgants and melee Fex's and 3 Lictors in a Brigade. its fun.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 07:07:59


Post by: First Among Gators


 Amishprn86 wrote:
You are caring way to much about this, we all know we have enough slots, no one cares about "lack of slots" in 8th. At this point i said what i wanted too, i dont feel Lictors are worth taking for any reason atm. Maybe i the future i might, but currently i see no reason.

Ok i lied, there is always the Rule of Cool!

I have a Behemoth Rule of Cool army, that is all DSing (well 1/2 my army) with loads of walking Hgants and melee Fex's and 3 Lictors in a Brigade. its fun.

I'm caring way too much about this? All I said is that I like the look of Lictor's coming up, you're the one who seemed to take issue with that? You're welcome to feel however you like about any unit, it does not bother me, however the logic that was just given that you "completely agreed" with, was that they can't be justified in the slot when we have Pyrovores, which I politely disagreed with and explained why. You're not making a lot of sense here.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 07:17:19


Post by: Amishprn86


Yeah we are done. If others want to chime in they can, but i said what i needed to.


On a different note, i was thinking more about Tyrant Guard, im surprise they didnt get a change. But with Swardlord being cheaper, i might just field Guard for more wounds for him, being 361pts for them compare to 410pts. Seems a bit more reasonable. 9 more wounds to keep him alive.

Tho i really wish they went down by a bit.

Most likely will try it out at least. IDK if i like it still.

Edit @FireAmongGators: b.c i dont want to clutter up the forum with this back and forth, Please stop, move on, we know you think they are good and thats your opinion and i'm ok with that. Im done talking about it


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 07:25:42


Post by: First Among Gators



 Amishprn86 wrote:
PS you literallt said "I think Lictors are going to quite good now, thats all" so yeah you kinda did.

That just means... that I think they are going to be quite good, and I thought it would be an interesting topic of discussion? Nothing at all about saying that Pyrovores, or Hive Guard, or anything else in the Elite slot are not also going to be playable? Like, it says right there that this is all I'm saying, why are you trying to turn it into something else entirely? edit, nevermind I see you're done. Thanks.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 07:37:47


Post by: Eihnlazer


Kraken pyrovores are almost a must take now, just from raw stats they are worth it.

12 T5 wounds with a 16"-21" (usually 19-20) threat range that are packing 3 heavy flamers (which completely destroy scout units that cost similar points).

If your opponent goes first they are an excellent screening unit as elite chargers don't wanna touch them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 09:10:22


Post by: Astmeister


I assume that not many people will play pyrovores anyway, since the models are super expensive and not very good.
Also I don't think you need them, if you do not want to run a brigade. They still die too easily and do not solve problems the tyranids have.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 09:12:42


Post by: Amishprn86


 Astmeister wrote:
I assume that not many people will play pyrovores anyway, since the models are super expensive and not very good.
Also I don't think you need them, if you do not want to run a brigade. They still die too easily and do not solve problems the tyranids have.


There is a really good conversion from Hive Guard box, i'll see if i cant find it. Looks good and is plastic for 3 models 1 box. Wasnt hard to do either.

If i remeber, you needed HVC or STC sacs (6 of them total) and that was the only thing outside of the kit you needed.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 09:26:25


Post by: Astmeister


I think I saw that one here in the forum. My hope is still that they will do a dual box with 3 Pyrovores/Biovores in the near future.
I am pretty sure there is a high probability for this combination.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 09:55:40


Post by: SHUPPET


 First Among Gators wrote:

Like, it says right there that this is all I'm saying, why are you trying to turn it into something else entirely?

Ah. Your first mistake was expecting any sort of rational discourse from Amish. This quote here basically sums up every single interaction I've ever seen from the guy when he disagrees with someone. Don't worry about it, it's just what he does.

I personally think Lictors are still pretty bad however.

 Badablack wrote:
Personally I can’t justify Lictors as a cheap elite filler with the updated Pyrovore in the same slot. 75 points gets you a durable unit that will tear apart hordes. Put them in front of a melee blob like boyz or genestealers and they’ll decimate it with overwatch then take out 5 more with acid and explosions. Double shoot them at obnoxious planes. Their only drawback is a terrible model.

Astmeister wrote:I assume that not many people will play pyrovores anyway, since the models are super expensive and not very good.
Also I don't think you need them, if you do not want to run a brigade. They still die too easily and do not solve problems the tyranids have.

I listened to CT this week, and Geoff Robinson (InControl) believes they are still really bad, to the point that he publicly apologised to anyone who buys into the hype and ends up wasting money on them just to find out how bad they still are.


I think my opinion lies somewhere between both extremes. They are far from an auto-take, but as far as I can tell they are also far from terrible, they seem like a good use of points for what they do now. Similar to Noise Marines, just looking at the gun profile and wound profile isn't enough and I fear that's what InControl may have done, the rules and interactions really give it that extra edge. Still, they are nowhere near as good enough to be considered a must take, cant even look at other elites, that is just overblown hype.
.




Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 09:57:11


Post by: Spoletta


Amishprn86 wrote:
 First Among Gators wrote:
I didn't say they were 30 pts... and there is more measure to a unit than whether it can solo kill a character in a 1v1 in a single turn. Rippers are the same price and I've never had them kill anything at all. Lictors move around fast and hard, deepstrike, score well, can do damage and are above all are extremely cheap. Deathleaper is cool too for what he adds, but they are different units.


Rippers also are harder to LoS see, has a total of 9 wounds and are troops, you are force to take troops for CP, so filling in 1-2 extra Rippers is never a problem. Brigades are easy for us and if you want them for Brigades, then that is 100% fine IMO. Especially if you already are taking Hiveguard unit and another elite. with 1 Fleet.

The 30 vs 34pts was for everyone not you. I've seen many say "sweet they are 30pts" and forget to add in the weapons.


Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee (and in case of mortar teams, it can also do some numbers), which means that it foces your opponent to deploy and move in a certain way. Imposing restrictions on your opponent for 34 points is definitely a good use of points. The fact that it can eat chars for CP or fall back shoot and charge with a 9" move stat is just a bonus.

Eihnlazer wrote:Kraken pyrovores are almost a must take now, just from raw stats they are worth it.

12 T5 wounds with a 16"-21" (usually 19-20) threat range that are packing 3 heavy flamers (which completely destroy scout units that cost similar points).

If your opponent goes first they are an excellent screening unit as elite chargers don't wanna touch them.


I think that they are T4. At T5 they would be broken.

Astmeister wrote:I assume that not many people will play pyrovores anyway, since the models are super expensive and not very good.
Also I don't think you need them, if you do not want to run a brigade. They still die too easily and do not solve problems the tyranids have.


25 points for T4 4+ 4W is NOT easy to kill. Maybe that they don't fall into the typical tyranid playstyle, but they are definitely not easy to kill.
Models though are really really bad...


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 10:02:31


Post by: tneva82


Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 10:03:46


Post by: Amishprn86


They only re-roll for the turn that you had DS.

Pyrovore are S5 T4, a lot of players just remember it backwards and thats understandable.

About them dying easy, you can hide single models really easily, being in cover makes you a 3+ save then.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 10:09:28


Post by: Astmeister


tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


My calculation says that they have a 59.5% chance of charging after deep strike.
Anyway Lictors might be good against IG, but there they have the problem that IG has massive screens everywhere. You will not be able to charge a mortar team so easily I'm afraid.

I also do not think that pyrovores are a must take now. But at least they are playable and can be very cheap brigade enablers.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 10:28:06


Post by: tneva82


 Astmeister wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


My calculation says that they have a 59.5% chance of charging after deep strike.
Anyway Lictors might be good against IG, but there they have the problem that IG has massive screens everywhere. You will not be able to charge a mortar team so easily I'm afraid.

I also do not think that pyrovores are a must take now. But at least they are playable and can be very cheap brigade enablers.


Does he have something that pre-codex orks didn't have? Reroll both dices was 47.8% for orks in index. Bit more if you are burning CP to reroll just one dice rather than whole roll.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 10:35:30


Post by: Amishprn86


Orks can only re-roll 1 dice, a DSing Lictor can re-roll both

A 9" charge without any re-roll is 27.78%

3+6=9
4+5=9
5+4=9
6+3=9
4+6=10
5+5=10
6+4=10
5+6=11
6+5=11
6+6=12
10 of 36

PS re-rolling Both dice is a 48% chance, re-rolling the lowest averge dice roll is 50-55%, idk how to do that math very well when im this tired.

Edit: Add math


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 10:54:06


Post by: tneva82


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Orks can only re-roll 1 dice, a DSing Lictor can re-roll both


Orks pre-codex could reroll both.

Orks post-codex can roll all or either at their discression(slight boost from index). There is some debate could orks choose to reroll one dice with CP reroll and then the other by their inate ability(has to be this way though due to CP reroll rule so def can't use first inate ability and then CP reroll) (and as to why anybody would do this as you are committing 1 CP however...It does increase odds slightly so if it's hyper critical(last time I played Tau certainly was that critical but then again rolling 1 and 2 in the first roll made that idea bad anyway nevermind rather rules-lawyery attempt in casual tournament...) it could be worth it to commit 1CP to give even slight increase on odds)


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 11:01:13


Post by: Spoletta


tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 11:16:35


Post by: tneva82


Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


People screen them anyway but not due to lictors. So idea of them affecting deployment is pretty much irrelevant.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 11:30:26


Post by: Spoletta


tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


People screen them anyway but not due to lictors. So idea of them affecting deployment is pretty much irrelevant.


Why would they?
What do tyranids have that requires screening your mortars/traktors/devastators/hyve guards ?
I don't rembember seeing raveners, gargolyes or tyrannocites in lists. Sometimes trygons, but they are there for bigger targets.

Usually against nids you don't need to screen in the back, you have to put all your screens in front to cover for the horma/stealer rush.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 11:51:29


Post by: Amishprn86


Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


People screen them anyway but not due to lictors. So idea of them affecting deployment is pretty much irrelevant.


Why would they?
What do tyranids have that requires screening your mortars/traktors/devastators/hyve guards ?
I don't rembember seeing raveners, gargolyes or tyrannocites in lists. Sometimes trygons, but they are there for bigger targets.

Usually against nids you don't need to screen in the back, you have to put all your screens in front to cover for the horma/stealer rush.


Serious? Genestealers and Flyrants


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 11:54:02


Post by: Astmeister


Spoletta wrote:
Spoiler:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


People screen them anyway but not due to lictors. So idea of them affecting deployment is pretty much irrelevant.


Why would they?
What do tyranids have that requires screening your mortars/traktors/devastators/hyve guards ?
I don't rembember seeing raveners, gargolyes or tyrannocites in lists. Sometimes trygons, but they are there for bigger targets.

Usually against nids you don't need to screen in the back, you have to put all your screens in front to cover for the horma/stealer rush.


There are also Hive Crones and Harpys. I played crones sometimes and they can at least T1 charge backline Artillery.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 11:57:56


Post by: First Among Gators


They can be used like Rippers some games, or used as a hitsquad others, or just to tie up different units here and there as their fluff suggests, or anything in between. Versatility is a big plus for me and they are nice and fast and an unappealing target to shoot at if played well.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 12:16:46


Post by: Spoletta


Amishprn86 wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


People screen them anyway but not due to lictors. So idea of them affecting deployment is pretty much irrelevant.


Why would they?
What do tyranids have that requires screening your mortars/traktors/devastators/hyve guards ?
I don't rembember seeing raveners, gargolyes or tyrannocites in lists. Sometimes trygons, but they are there for bigger targets.

Usually against nids you don't need to screen in the back, you have to put all your screens in front to cover for the horma/stealer rush.


Serious? Genestealers and Flyrants


Astmeister wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Spoiler:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Lictors natively reroll charges, that is really important. It's a 34 point model which has good chances to put stuff in melee


Tad under 50%. Need 2 of them for 3/4 chance to get stuff in melee. Top of that 1 of them isn't that scary that it's going to force enemy to do anything more than deploy standard chaff that are more there to work as speed bumb against kraken stealers anyway.


The actual chances are not important as long as they are high enough. 48% is enough that your opponent has to screen his backline objectives. For 34 points it's a big win.


People screen them anyway but not due to lictors. So idea of them affecting deployment is pretty much irrelevant.


Why would they?
What do tyranids have that requires screening your mortars/traktors/devastators/hyve guards ?
I don't rembember seeing raveners, gargolyes or tyrannocites in lists. Sometimes trygons, but they are there for bigger targets.

Usually against nids you don't need to screen in the back, you have to put all your screens in front to cover for the horma/stealer rush.


There are also Hive Crones and Harpys. I played crones sometimes and they can at least T1 charge backline Artillery.


Those are completely different. Being able to charge something from the front with a fast flying unit and being able to charge from a deepstriking unit, are 2 different things and require different set ups for the screens.

Genestealers apply only in case you play the GSC ones, i was talking about tyranids.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 12:27:24


Post by: Niiai


While we can discuss the lictor I like the new deathleaper with cheaper cost. Since it has the character rule he is hard to shoot of objects from afar. He is slightly cheaper now. 60 points.

That the regular venom cannon jumped down to 12 points is nice. Warriors with essentially heavy bolters and auto cannons are quite nice. The prime is also cheaper.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 12:53:06


Post by: Spoletta


I'm sure that someone will competitively explore a Leviathan full warrior list now.

Leviathan is a must or they will melt to D3 weapons.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 13:16:13


Post by: Niiai


I have painted mine Leviatan and has stuck to it. D3 damage weapons and even 2 damage weapons are not bad. Often they need 2 hits to kill, even with out leviathan 6+++. With it it can be funn. The 6+++ is better on gaunts. ^_^

The leviathan stratagem is cool if you can unlock it. Malanthropes or gargaoyles where my go to. Now perhaps one of the flyers can do.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 13:28:31


Post by: Spoletta


I mean flat 3 damage weapons, like Cawl's wrath.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the stratagem you can consider shrikes.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 15:24:48


Post by: Eihnlazer


You can take double battalion + fortification detachment for a decent levi list.


2 malanthropes, 2 primes

3 min squad warriors, 3 max squad warriors

6 pyrovores

3 sporocysts




Everything should be synapsed and buffed almost all the time and its got tons of firepower.


Raw stats are: 196 wounds with 6+++, 12 Venom cannons, 6 heavy flamers, 9 spore mines per turn, 51 Heavy bolters. No models with 1 wound except for spawned mines. In close combat you get 154 bonesword attacks hitting on 2's and some other stuff.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 20:25:42


Post by: Niiai


I am just browsing blood of kittens 2018 summary:

-1 to hit “Chapter Tactics” type rules across all codexes is now +1 cover

Does this mean fexes, venomthropes and malantrope?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 20:38:08


Post by: BlaxicanX


I believe that was a rumored change that didn't actually pan out- though I could have just missed it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 22:08:27


Post by: Badablack


Making -1 to hit just a bonus to cover saves would definitely reduce the stacking nonsense Eldar like to pull with flyers. Good luck getting a cover save with those things.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 00:11:43


Post by: Eihnlazer


Yeah they didn't go through with that change, even though it would have been far healthier for the game as a whole.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 01:12:04


Post by: SHUPPET


Yeah, because completely destroying Raven Guard, Alpha Legion and Stygies would have been excellent for the game.

If you want Alaitoc nerfed, say Alaitoc needs to be nerfed. Almost every example of -1 instances are fine outside of that.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 01:40:14


Post by: Eihnlazer


It wouldn't destroy those at all.

Raven guard and Alpha legion would actually be getting a buff from this change.

If they go second, all their 3+ armor is now 1+ armor (cover strat) which helps them more than the -1 to hit did. If they went first they might have been too close to get the -1 anyway.

Stygies gets shroudspsalm so +2 to saves is pretty pimp as well since they are charging up as well.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 02:17:10


Post by: SHUPPET


 Eihnlazer wrote:

Raven guard and Alpha legion would actually be getting a buff from this change.

If they go second, all their 3+ armor is now 1+ armor (cover strat) which helps them more than the -1 to hit did.

Or, if they went second, they'd have 2+ armor and -1 to hit, something way stronger off the bat, and not invalidated by ignores cover or high AP either. And that's assuming it did even work like this (the rumor just said they would be counting as in cover, so these wouldn't even stack).

 Eihnlazer wrote:
If they went first they might have been too close to get the -1 anyway.

Then they wouldn't be benefiting from the cover save either, so that's pretty irrelevant here.


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Stygies gets shroudspsalm so +2 to saves is pretty pimp as well since they are charging up as well.

By the logic you're giving, these changes Alaitoc would be even stronger since they are getting stackable buffs to their armour saves. But that's not how this works. You cannot frame this as anything other than a nerf, let's not pretend otherwise.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 04:12:05


Post by: admironheart


As a current player of 2nd ed as well as 8th I am very used to seeing -2, -3, -4 to even -6 modifiers on units.

We just mathed it out. It is far better to have dice miss up front even with rerolls.

Rather than hitting, rerolls, rolls to wound and a much improved saving throw round. It almost triples the time for each volley of shots in the game.

With an overload of dice as is, we don't need extra dice rolling, on the contrary.

I am for even more negative modifiers to hit. My Malanthrope list has the additional -1 on my tyrant, my lictors up front and my harpy to slow things up.

If the negatives to hit are a problem they could go any number of things. Make close/short range a plus to hit or even auto hit ....since that is a thing already.

Heck I would even get rid of weapon types and just have point blank range that auto hit, short range that gives +1 and long range to all weapons and make all weapons the same. Some like pistols/flamers would have a nice Point blank range. Some like lascannons and heavy bolters would have zero or almost none. I think most pistols had +2 to hit for short range in 2nd ed and that is why you pulled out your Marines bolt pistol instead of using your bolter to kill those fast moving -3 to hit elder jetbikes.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 06:55:13


Post by: N.I.B.


What's up with the hate on the Pyrovore model? The only reason GW has sold a single Pyrovore since it came out is that people proxied them as Biovores. That's how ugly Biovores are.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 06:58:27


Post by: Spoletta


1) The model IMHO looks really bad, but that's up to personal opinions.

2) It's in finecast.

3) Has an atrocious cost to point ratio.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In any case i think you can easily make those with a warrior base. Model them with lower rending claws, and use it as hands to put it on 4 legs. Put a barbed strangler on the upper limbs, you can do it the simple way and have an end result which is a small Tfex, or you model the limbs turned around over the back and it is more similar to the standard pyrovore. Use a termagant or hormagant for the head.
This way i finally find a use for all those stranglers.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 07:55:56


Post by: SHUPPET


Spoletta wrote:

In any case i think you can easily make those with a warrior base. Model them with lower rending claws, and use it as hands to put it on 4 legs. Put a barbed strangler on the upper limbs, you can do it the simple way and have an end result which is a small Tfex, or you model the limbs turned around over the back and it is more similar to the standard pyrovore. Use a termagant or hormagant for the head.
This way i finally find a use for all those stranglers.

pretty good advice here, it's what I'll be doing for mine








Anyway, just listened to the most recent Chapter Tactics. InControl said (and I'm paraphrasing) that LVO terrain really benefits Tyranids and that they should do well in the hands of a good player, and was asked why he thinks Tyranid players didn't do well last year. He responded that he thinks in general, Tyranid players are generally pretty bad players, who do try, but most only succeed at being fun opponents to play against. With only a few exceptions, generally when top players of other races pick them up, in his opinion. I've actually heard him say it before in the past, so it wasn't just a quick answer or anything.

How do you guys feel about that? I don't know where I sit on that just yet myself, but part of me definitely feels like I have kinda experienced what he's talking about, it might just be my confirmation bias but this is the only race I really see where there's CONSTANTLY people arguing in favor of bad units, like Mawlocs, Tervigons, Haruspexes, etc, and just fundamentally misunderstanding the units in their logic.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 07:58:20


Post by: C4790M


The point to cost on a pyrovore is truly ridiculous. They cost £22.50 on the GW and are 25 points. That’s almost £1 a point! Like yeah, they’re really goood now but dang, that’s a lotta money


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 08:07:40


Post by: Souleater


It might be that the sort of folks who play Nids are doing so more for the fluff and models than competitiveness.

I have known a number of people pick up armies based purely on their competitiveness, even if they dislike the models and care nothing for the armies background.

OTOH I recently heard somebody state that Daughters of Khaine had a 76% win rate because of the type of player they attract, not necessarily the power level of the army. I have no idea of how true that is. Or if they were serious. My point being that some comments can muddy the waters.

What I do know, from years of playing against marine players is that Tyranids are still perceived as...an NPC army, if you will. We are 'supposed' to get shot up on the approach and then beaten in melee combat.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 08:26:32


Post by: Amishprn86


 Souleater wrote:
It might be that the sort of folks who play Nids are doing so more for the fluff and models than competitiveness.

I have known a number of people pick up armies based purely on their competitiveness, even if they dislike the models and care nothing for the armies background.

OTOH I recently heard somebody state that Daughters of Khaine had a 76% win rate because of the type of player they attract, not necessarily the power level of the army. I have no idea of how true that is. Or if they were serious. My point being that some comments can muddy the waters.

What I do know, from years of playing against marine players is that Tyranids are still perceived as...an NPC army, if you will. We are 'supposed' to get shot up on the approach and then beaten in melee combat.


For me, i also buy armies on looks and playstyles, my problem is, i play 2-5x a week, and been playing whfb and 40k for many years. I get board with "fun" models very fast b.c they dont feel good to play. Its all about how the model feels to play with, if its frustrating, i'll just put it on the self and wait for a new edition, ive done this many times.For new players, or players that play once a month, i fully understand playing your favorite models, and you should have fun as much as you can. I just get to play enough and long enough and have enough models/points where i can test/play every model and then pick the ones that feel right to me, most the time its closer to meta lists, just b.c most veterans players move towards the efficient units, we have been playing long enough to know what works and what does for the most part.

I do play AOS as well, and yes, DoK are really strong, the big problem tho is LoN are equally as strong, and they are fundamentally 2 different types of armies, most other armies that are top tier (Deepkin, Beastclaws, etc..) need to play 2 completely different play styles to deal with each, and most armies cant do that, so you either deal with 1 or the other. LoN is more popular as well, 300 DoK to 600 LoN players int he past many tournaments. So most players are building to counter LoN and not DoK.

For an example; Deepkin are very good against LoN, but not as good against DoK. I personally play Deepkin and Moonkclan, tho i really want to play Beastmen, as i played them from 5th till 8th (stopped at 8th) and sold them off, looking to get back into them now they are playable for the 1st time in 20yrs (i lost 80% of my games with beastmen, they always where really bad)


EDIT: Found a chart for you https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48396074_950077932047094_8386091144869576704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=4f7a6474a0ee1eb555caee87b6ab07f1&oe=5C8B6084


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 08:36:42


Post by: SHUPPET


 Souleater wrote:
It might be that the sort of folks who play Nids are doing so more for the fluff and models than competitiveness.

I have known a number of people pick up armies based purely on their competitiveness, even if they dislike the models and care nothing for the armies background.

For what it's worth, he was referring to competitive players. Or at the very least, the players who are attending tournaments with Nids (which may not be exclusive to what you say either, just adding a bit more context).

 Souleater wrote:
OTOH I recently heard somebody state that Daughters of Khaine had a 76% win rate because of the type of player they attract, not necessarily the power level of the army. I have no idea of how true that is. Or if they were serious. My point being that some comments can muddy the waters.

What I do know, from years of playing against marine players is that Tyranids are still perceived as...an NPC army, if you will. We are 'supposed' to get shot up on the approach and then beaten in melee combat.


I can definitely see that being the case. Certain types of people in general, are more likely to be attracted or gravitate to different armies in general. This can totally affect overall performance too E.G. no matter how broken SM are, they will always have a poor win rate, because they are super popular amongst casual players. Similar thing to Orkz. And I'm sure we've all seen the similarity in personality that gets attracted to Tau, for whatever the reason. I think that while things like Ynnari are obviously extremely powerful, they are also such a finesse based army that attracts players really looking for a challenge, and this translates to better players owning the army overall. These are just some rough generalisations, no concrete rules or anything, but I can see how it can weight certain armies in a different direction than the actual competitive potential of them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 09:08:55


Post by: Astmeister


 SHUPPET wrote:


Anyway, just listened to the most recent Chapter Tactics. InControl said (and I'm paraphrasing) that LVO terrain really benefits Tyranids and that they should do well in the hands of a good player, and was asked why he thinks Tyranid players didn't do well last year. He responded that he thinks in general, Tyranid players are generally pretty bad players, who do try, but most only succeed at being fun opponents to play against. With only a few exceptions, generally when top players of other races pick them up, in his opinion. I've actually heard him say it before in the past, so it wasn't just a quick answer or anything.

How do you guys feel about that? I don't know where I sit on that just yet myself, but part of me definitely feels like I have kinda experienced what he's talking about, it might just be my confirmation bias but this is the only race I really see where there's CONSTANTLY people arguing in favor of bad units, like Mawlocs, Tervigons, Haruspexes, etc, and just fundamentally misunderstanding the units in their logic.


I personally am a quite bad player. I did not play 40k competitively on tournaments, but I did play a lot of tournaments in 6th and 7th edition WHFB. I was already bad there, which was due to me just playing my favorite units all the time (e.g. 2 blocks of greatswords).

So personally I absolutely agree with him saying that. If I wanted to play WAAC, I would have taken another army. I just "love" my tyranids and do not want to play them super competitively. For example I always play a walking hive tyrant with HVC, just because I like it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 09:15:32


Post by: slave.entity


 SHUPPET wrote:
And I'm sure we've all seen the similarity in personality that gets attracted to Tau, for whatever the reason.


LOL what is the personality that is attracted to Tau?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 10:02:36


Post by: SHUPPET


 slave.entity wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And I'm sure we've all seen the similarity in personality that gets attracted to Tau, for whatever the reason.


LOL what is the personality that is attracted to Tau?

Play against 10 Tau players and see if you can spot the theme.

heheh, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but generally a disproportionate amount of peoples "worst stories" involve personality clashes with Tau players. There's plenty of cool ones out there so don't take it as an insult, but for some reason the race seems to attract a disproportionate amount of... less cool ones.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 10:09:07


Post by: addnid


 Eihnlazer wrote:
You can take double battalion + fortification detachment for a decent levi list.


2 malanthropes, 2 primes

3 min squad warriors, 3 max squad warriors

6 pyrovores

3 sporocyst


Everything should be synapsed and buffed almost all the time and its got tons of firepower.


Raw stats are: 196 wounds with 6+++, 12 Venom cannons, 6 heavy flamers, 9 spore mines per turn, 51 Heavy bolters. No models with 1 wound except for spawned mines. In close combat you get 154 bonesword attacks hitting on 2's and some other stuff.


I have somethig like this in the pipeline for Friday but the French army builder app I am usinG says post CA, venom canons are 12 points. I thought I heard they had dropped to 8 ?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 10:24:19


Post by: Badablack


No they dropped BY 8 points from 20 to 12.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 11:01:24


Post by: Emicrania


What would you use in a Brigade as FA?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 11:14:39


Post by: slave.entity


 SHUPPET wrote:
 slave.entity wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And I'm sure we've all seen the similarity in personality that gets attracted to Tau, for whatever the reason.


LOL what is the personality that is attracted to Tau?

Play against 10 Tau players and see if you can spot the theme.

heheh, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but generally a disproportionate amount of peoples "worst stories" involve personality clashes with Tau players. There's plenty of cool ones out there so don't take it as an insult, but for some reason the race seems to attract a disproportionate amount of... less cool ones.


In my (limited) experience playing against Tau players, I find that they tend to be more a little more casual in playstyle, kind of like marine players. All of the nid players I've met seem more competitive in general, even if it's just spamming hive guard. The Tau players I've gone up against seemed to just be really into the cool mechs and hover tanks rather than necessarily having a strong list. Chaos is a mixed bag. Same with IG. The DE/CWE I've met are generally a little more tryhard. The Necron players I've met also tend to be more competitive-minded though I can also tell that they were kind of new to the game because they chose Necrons.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 11:38:35


Post by: SHUPPET


 slave.entity wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
 slave.entity wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And I'm sure we've all seen the similarity in personality that gets attracted to Tau, for whatever the reason.


LOL what is the personality that is attracted to Tau?

Play against 10 Tau players and see if you can spot the theme.

heheh, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but generally a disproportionate amount of peoples "worst stories" involve personality clashes with Tau players. There's plenty of cool ones out there so don't take it as an insult, but for some reason the race seems to attract a disproportionate amount of... less cool ones.


In my (limited) experience playing against Tau players, I find that they tend to be more a little more casual in playstyle, kind of like marine players. All of the nid players I've met seem more competitive in general, even if it's just spamming hive guard. The Tau players I've gone up against seemed to just be really into the cool mechs and hover tanks rather than necessarily having a strong list. Chaos is a mixed bag. Same with IG. The DE/CWE I've met are generally a little more tryhard. The Necron players I've met also tend to be more competitive-minded though I can also tell that they were kind of new to the game because they chose Necrons.


Yeah, it's a broad generalisation and there is no hard rule for anything. It's just a common experience in the hobby that Tau players have more poor sportsmans than other races (for whatever the reason may be). The comments here are a pretty good example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/9hr2ys/please_tell_me_your_that_guy_stories/

Anyway this is getting kinda off topic for Tyranid tactica, I didn't mean to make this thread about the Tau community, that comment was just an offhand example in a handful of broad stereotypes. They have their flaws and we have ours.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 11:43:37


Post by: Badablack


The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 11:54:26


Post by: Spoletta


We tyranids tend to be fluffy bunnies, that is true. Our army has a really strong theme, there is no avoding that.

No, i don't consider it a bad thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


I scrap built my mines through some venom bugs leftover bits and they came out majorly cool, some prefer it to the originals.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 12:32:04


Post by: Amishprn86


 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Im thinking about putting him into my army for fun, mostly b.c its a character and since he hits on 2+ , 5 attacks with re-rolls, he always will hit 4 or more, easy way to remove a model. If he charges something that is 3 wounds, you have a 67% chance to remove it from play, thats better than 3 0ap wounds vs 3+/4+.

Is it a waste of points and most likely not work? Most likely! But does it sound fun? Heck yeah!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 13:35:48


Post by: Astmeister


 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Im thinking about putting him into my army for fun, mostly b.c its a character and since he hits on 2+ , 5 attacks with re-rolls, he always will hit 4 or more, easy way to remove a model. If he charges something that is 3 wounds, you have a 67% chance to remove it from play, thats better than 3 0ap wounds vs 3+/4+.

Is it a waste of points and most likely not work? Most likely! But does it sound fun? Heck yeah!


So are you really using the terrible Red Terror model?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 14:30:01


Post by: Amishprn86


 Astmeister wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.


Im thinking about putting him into my army for fun, mostly b.c its a character and since he hits on 2+ , 5 attacks with re-rolls, he always will hit 4 or more, easy way to remove a model. If he charges something that is 3 wounds, you have a 67% chance to remove it from play, thats better than 3 0ap wounds vs 3+/4+.

Is it a waste of points and most likely not work? Most likely! But does it sound fun? Heck yeah!


So are you really using the terrible Red Terror model?


No, i have my own lol

Edit: I will try to take a pic later


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 15:04:11


Post by: Eihnlazer


Mucoloids are expensive because you only get one in a Tyrannocyte pack. They are fairly easy to convert though so its not a big deal.


Pyrovores are obtusely overpriced, but I bought them anyway.


GW made them a bit too strong with the points changes in order to sell them, no doubt, since they had probably upwards of 1500 of them sitting in their wharehouse since they were printed.

Personally I feel if a company cant sell something they should just drop the price, but im not an asshat.



@addnid

Yeah on paper that list is powerful, but a dark angels army or shooty knights army will be a hard counter to it. It will do well in most tournaments unless it hits such a hard counter.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 15:27:42


Post by: admironheart


I am still taking my 3 shrikes as one of my FA in a Brigade


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 16:05:11


Post by: Astmeister


There is finally an alternative to biovores from Hydracast. Slightly bigger but looks really good!

http://hydracast.blogspot.com/


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 16:14:49


Post by: winterman


 Badablack wrote:
The usual FA filler for brigades is 3 Mucolid Spores, which is why they’re 30 bucks a pop on eBay.

I think I might try running the Red Terror in one slot for mine though. He’s pretty decent for 50 points, and his instant death attack is hilarious if it goes off.

Oddly enough Red Terror is Elite not FA (check his FOC symbol in the book).

Kraken Mycetic Spores are pretty good. They are superior pushback because they cant be taken hostage. Nice in some matchups. Gargoyles also, screen with fly also have usefulness.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 19:00:15


Post by: pinecone77


 Astmeister wrote:
There is finally an alternative to biovores from Hydracast. Slightly bigger but looks really good!

http://hydracast.blogspot.com/
Wow, that is a mighty fine model. I hope the next time GW resculpts they'll do equally good work (as if )


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 20:17:40


Post by: Badablack


I never even noticed the red terror being an elite. Why would they put it right in the middle of the fast attack section?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 20:24:36


Post by: Amishprn86


 Badablack wrote:
I never even noticed the red terror being an elite. Why would they put it right in the middle of the fast attack section?


Its a character, if im not mistaking, all characters so far all have been in elites (that werent HQ's)


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/19 23:58:02


Post by: Traceoftoxin


 SHUPPET wrote:
How do you guys feel about that? I don't know where I sit on that just yet myself, but part of me definitely feels like I have kinda experienced what he's talking about, it might just be my confirmation bias but this is the only race I really see where there's CONSTANTLY people arguing in favor of bad units, like Mawlocs, Tervigons, Haruspexes, etc, and just fundamentally misunderstanding the units in their logic.


Honestly most people are bad at 40k, so it's not just a Tyranid thing. It's just that they're really kind of gak to paint, and they're rarely top tier competitive, so there aren't a lot of players who have a viable Tyranid army sitting around for when they fit well into the meta. Any time they are fringe competitive, no one is going to bother buying 150+ models, painting them all, and enduring the horde slog (same as green tide), when there are other, easier to field armies that are just as (or possibly more) competitive.

I mean gak, there are lots of armies that have come out of nowhere to win big GTs that everyone is like "HOW?" and most good players just look at it and say, "Yeah, we all knew that could work, but none of us wanted to spend the money/time to do it when we could play something we prefer for less investment".


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/20 00:27:05


Post by: SHUPPET


 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
How do you guys feel about that? I don't know where I sit on that just yet myself, but part of me definitely feels like I have kinda experienced what he's talking about, it might just be my confirmation bias but this is the only race I really see where there's CONSTANTLY people arguing in favor of bad units, like Mawlocs, Tervigons, Haruspexes, etc, and just fundamentally misunderstanding the units in their logic.


Honestly most people are bad at 40k, so it's not just a Tyranid thing. It's just that they're really kind of gak to paint, and they're rarely top tier competitive, so there aren't a lot of players who have a viable Tyranid army sitting around for when they fit well into the meta. Any time they are fringe competitive, no one is going to bother buying 150+ models, painting them all, and enduring the horde slog (same as green tide), when there are other, easier to field armies that are just as (or possibly more) competitive.

I mean gak, there are lots of armies that have come out of nowhere to win big GTs that everyone is like "HOW?" and most good players just look at it and say, "Yeah, we all knew that could work, but none of us wanted to spend the money/time to do it when we could play something we prefer for less investment".


Hmmm. This might have a hand in it. However, I think he's referring to last years LVO results, before Rule of 3 was conceived and back when Tyranids was generally played as just a flock of Flyrants with some Hive Guard and scoring support, something I think a lot of people had access to and wasn't too hard to paint, but Tyranids still couldn't even break top 50, even with Terrain and rules that should by all means benefit them a lot.

Maybe the terrain is not as beneficial as he thinks (I think it's pretty good though), or maybe just spamming Flyrants wasn't actually as good as a lot of people thought and a more TAC list is just better (I suspect this to be the case), but I guess that ties in with his overall point.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/20 15:14:15


Post by: pinecone77


Spamming Fly'rants was Not "good". But it was a strong counter to Aeldari so folks were trying to "counter-meta" Ynarri. (IMHO)


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/20 16:37:10


Post by: Amishprn86


Dont forget it was popular b.c players had 5-7 Flyrants from 7th ed, as it was the only playable list, 5-7 Flyrants, rippers, spores, then 300pts of flavor, Malocks, or Lictors, or etc..


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/20 20:30:01


Post by: SHUPPET


And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/20 23:33:36


Post by: Traceoftoxin


 SHUPPET wrote:
And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Everyone was saying Genestealers were trash in 5th edition, yet I made it to the top 10 tables of Wargamescon, and there was one other Nid player running an almost identical list who also took I think 3rd in some major GT, and one blogger who was doing very well in GTs with the same base. It was like 6 years ago. We were all using Carnifex with Tyranid Prime deathstars (To abuse the MC/IC rules for joining IC to "units" of MC) and Genestealers, which was a HUGE no no online. The only thing anyone wanted to play was long fang spam, rhino rush, Paladin stars, etc.

The same people were saying the same gak to DashofPepper when he took Orks and crushed a bunch of GTS, then Wyches (With the 3rd edition codex), then Venomspam.

I'm quite used to people telling me what I'm playing sucks and won't work, but I've only ever gone negative in an RTT or GT once, with a charity army I was playing to draw attention to so we could make more $$$ for the raffle. There's a reason a lot of top players don't post on forums, and generally when they do, they eventually just leave because they get tired of being swarmed by idiots.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/21 04:13:17


Post by: Amishprn86


 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Everyone was saying Genestealers were trash in 5th edition, yet I made it to the top 10 tables of Wargamescon, and there was one other Nid player running an almost identical list who also took I think 3rd in some major GT, and one blogger who was doing very well in GTs with the same base. It was like 6 years ago. We were all using Carnifex with Tyranid Prime deathstars (To abuse the MC/IC rules for joining IC to "units" of MC) and Genestealers, which was a HUGE no no online. The only thing anyone wanted to play was long fang spam, rhino rush, Paladin stars, etc.

The same people were saying the same gak to DashofPepper when he took Orks and crushed a bunch of GTS, then Wyches (With the 3rd edition codex), then Venomspam.

I'm quite used to people telling me what I'm playing sucks and won't work, but I've only ever gone negative in an RTT or GT once, with a charity army I was playing to draw attention to so we could make more $$$ for the raffle. There's a reason a lot of top players don't post on forums, and generally when they do, they eventually just leave because they get tired of being swarmed by idiots.


I didnt follow tournaments for nids in 5th as i was in tournaments for martial arts at the time and didnt care for them in 40k.

Now im curious, would have this list been good for 5th tournaments?

With that said, i had 1 list i played, i felt it was a fine list

Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power (Custom made model)
Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Doom of Malan'tai + pod (custom made models)
Gargoyles x20 (screen)
2 max Genestealer units and 1 16? or 14? this is the only thing i dont remember

I remember this list very well b.c i only had 2 lists for all of 5th, that and a 2 Prime HQ, 2 Tervigon Troop, with same elites. Its funny that i still remember most of the points.

Net rot, i cant even find information on 5th tournaments lol.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/21 04:50:38


Post by: Arson Fire


 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
And people said the same thing about 6th, when in reality it wasn't that back then either or even the best way to play Nids at the time, but Tyranid players spent like half a decade being unable to adapt, and thinking about it I'm really starting to see what InControl was talking about.


Everyone was saying Genestealers were trash in 5th edition, yet I made it to the top 10 tables of Wargamescon, and there was one other Nid player running an almost identical list who also took I think 3rd in some major GT, and one blogger who was doing very well in GTs with the same base. It was like 6 years ago. We were all using Carnifex with Tyranid Prime deathstars (To abuse the MC/IC rules for joining IC to "units" of MC) and Genestealers, which was a HUGE no no online. The only thing anyone wanted to play was long fang spam, rhino rush, Paladin stars, etc.

The same people were saying the same gak to DashofPepper when he took Orks and crushed a bunch of GTS, then Wyches (With the 3rd edition codex), then Venomspam.

I'm quite used to people telling me what I'm playing sucks and won't work, but I've only ever gone negative in an RTT or GT once, with a charity army I was playing to draw attention to so we could make more $$$ for the raffle. There's a reason a lot of top players don't post on forums, and generally when they do, they eventually just leave because they get tired of being swarmed by idiots.


I didnt follow tournaments for nids in 5th as i was in tournaments for martial arts at the time and didnt care for them in 40k.

Now im curious, would have this list been good for 5th tournaments?

With that said, i had 1 list i played, i felt it was a fine list

Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power (Custom made model)
Tervigon, CC, AG, TS, +1 power
Hive Guard x3
Hive Guard x3
Doom of Malan'tai + pod (custom made models)
Gargoyles x20 (screen)
2 max Genestealer units and 1 16? or 14? this is the only thing i dont remember

I remember this list very well b.c i only had 2 lists for all of 5th, that and a 2 Prime HQ, 2 Tervigon Troop, with same elites. Its funny that i still remember most of the points.

Net rot, i cant even find information on 5th tournaments lol.


Yeah, it's a decent list.


5th edition tyranids were fairly strong. The codex was an eclectic mess of ridiculous cheese and utter rubbish, with clearly no thought given to balance. Lots of tyranid players were rightfully annoyed by it, following the popular and fairly well written 4th edition codex. That's where I think the 5th edition complaints largely came from. The poor writing, rather than the strength of the codex.
There were still plenty of strong and fun builds you could make with it.

The doom of malantai was interesting, as it had the potential to wreck non-mechanised lists almost singlehandedly, if they were clustered too closely together. It forced your opponents to spread out their deployment, to limit the number of 3d6 leadership tests it forced them to make.
This combined very well with Ymgarl genestealers, where you wrote down a piece of terrain in secret before the game, and had the genestealers spawn within it when they arrived from reserves. These made your opponent try to cluster their forces on pieces of terrain, to block the genestealers from arriving.
Standard genestealers could arrive from outflank, where they ran in from the sides of the table and charged (no min 9" away, like in 8th. You could appear right next to enemies), forcing your opponent to stay away from the sides of the table.
You could also throw in mawlocs, to punish clustered infantry.

All this together and you were basically dictating your opponents deployment, and forcing them to make some hard choices.

That's not even getting into all the other good stuff, like the tyranid prime + carnifex/prime + guard + swarmlord deathstar shenanigans. Or tervigons (which were awesome).
5th edition was a fun time.


It wasn't until the 6th edition codex that tyranids got bad. I disagree with the assertion that tyranid players couldn't adapt to 6th. That's a massive generalisation about a huge number of players, many of whom play multiple armies. The 6th ed codex really was just legitimately terrible.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/21 10:36:13


Post by: SHUPPET


Arson Fire wrote:
It wasn't until the 6th edition codex that tyranids got bad. I disagree with the assertion that tyranid players couldn't adapt to 6th. That's a massive generalisation about a huge number of players, many of whom play multiple armies. The 6th ed codex really was just legitimately terrible.

6th was a badly written codex. I definitely agreed with that since forever. But there was so many more good things than "lol just spam Flyrants", but many people couldn't shake that mentality. There was so much other good stuff. Living Artillery node (and everything within), Lictors, Assassins brood, Mawlocs, Dakkafexes and more thats the top of my head. Master of Ambush was basically a free win 1 out of 3 games if you built for it, I don't think I ever lost a single match when I rolled it. The dex was written badly, but a lot of people couldn't adapt into that.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/21 16:06:59


Post by: Tyran


Also do not forget the Lictorshame list that won a GT in the middle of 6th edition.

The only time Tyranids couldn't really win would be in the post Necron 7th edition with all the Decurion nonsense.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 01:56:31


Post by: SHUPPET


Tyran wrote:
Also do not forget the Lictorshame list that won a GT in the middle of 6th edition.

The only time Tyranids couldn't really win would be in the post Necron 7th edition with all the Decurion nonsense.

Yeah, it was pretty hilarious when that happened, and seeing Jy2 get up on a soapbox to tell Tyranid players that their view of what can work is too narrow, after spending like 100 pages of the thread telling everyone that doing anything other spamming Flyrants was a less competitive choice


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 03:17:51


Post by: babelfish


I have to unlurk to jump in on the competitive Tyranids question.

Most players are not top tier competitive players. Tyanids is a faction that has limited appeal to the general pool of players due to the large model count, unusual rules that take time to learn, lack of characters to build narratives around.

Competitive players tend to skew towards the best builds in the armies they play. If a player owns IG, nids, and blood angel's, they are taking the faction/combo that is best between the 3 to LVO.

Between the low overall % of players who play bugs and the incentive to take the strongest possible list you can to major events, you would only expect a few truly good players to be running tyranids at any major event.

This is independent of the actual strength of the codex. When we have a strong codex/build, skilled players who have a Tyranid army might run it instead of whatever else. When we have a weak codex, the reverse might happen. My experience (mid skill player who enjoys tournaments) is this might translate to a 2 or 3 player swing at major events.

Our actual army has been solid but not amazing. We tend to be strong enough to threaten the power builds but not able to stomp 90% of the field. In general, when armys are close to equal, winning tournaments comes down to avoiding bad matchups, getting the bit of luck that gets you 50/50 point wins (vs 46/50), AND being an expert player.

When a faction has 2 expert players in a field of 200, they are much less likely to be the ones who are both good and lucky than the equal strength faction with 20 expert players.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 08:23:21


Post by: Traceoftoxin


babelfish wrote:
Our actual army has been solid but not amazing. We tend to be strong enough to threaten the power builds but not able to stomp 90% of the field. In general, when armys are close to equal, winning tournaments comes down to avoiding bad matchups, getting the bit of luck that gets you 50/50 point wins (vs 46/50), AND being an expert player.

When a faction has 2 expert players in a field of 200, they are much less likely to be the ones who are both good and lucky than the equal strength faction with 20 expert players.


Nailed it. Nids are not, and havent been for as long as I've played, a high scoring army. We can win almost any matchup, but in the end we will have almost nothing left on the board and the opponent is scrambling to score points before the game ends. It's not a fun way to win for a lot of people, it's physically and mentally exhausting, and you go into very few matchups thinking, "I'm going to roll over this guy".


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 11:59:11


Post by: Overread


 Traceoftoxin wrote:
, and you go into very few matchups thinking, "I'm going to roll over this guy".


To be fair if you go into a game knowing that you're going to sweep over and win "easily" against your opponent based on army lists alone then there is something wrong. Either your opponent has built a very bad list or the armies are missmatched at the balance end. In truth what we want is for the game balance to produce close matches where its the player skill and thinking that win the match more than because you've brought the best counterarmy that will just win because its better.

Tyranids are, in my view, right where most of the game factions want to be. Multiple viable rounded builds; nothing supremely outstanding and most of it in the middle. This gives the Tyranid player supreme variety of choice in what they want to field for their army - which lets you play with more of your models, lets you buy and build different things and lets you have a change up in how your army works.
It also makes for more fun matches all round since you're not just steamrolling over opponents nor being steamrolled back. Sure every once and a while its nice to have an easy win; or feel a crushing defeat. But in general the games most people enjoy the most and get the most fun out of are those close matches. Where at the end you're both in a good chance of winning even several turns in and you're thinking, playing and intensely involved in the game .


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 14:50:42


Post by: admironheart


Played my first Nid 8th ed game. Lost

Fun tough fight.

I used the double shooting on my Hive Guard when the Trygon and Tyranid Warriors arrived on the board.

I Definatley should have used it on the Tyranid Warriors. WOW they were so effective.

It is a combo I will strive to use again. Also I think I wont put the trygon in charge range and try to keep him out of LOS and just use the Warriors to flank attack a weak element.

With Catalyst....My opponent unloaded his whole army into them and it took 2 full turns to wipe them out....and that was Iron Warriors....so with his dead guys getting some banner or chapter master thing....he rolled more often than not that his guys got to shoot one last time....so it was like 2 extra half turns of shooting.

That unit of Warriors would not die.

It was also my first game facing a titan. The Brood lord put some real pain on it. pretty much solo.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 15:21:13


Post by: Eihnlazer


Yeah multi-wound infantry units with FNP can be tough to take out. I'd love it so much if Warriors could buy +1 armor save for 1 point per model.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 17:29:53


Post by: Tyran


There is no way 3+ armor saves would only cost 1ppm.
5ppm would be fairer.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/22 19:34:21


Post by: Eihnlazer


if marines can get storm shields for 2 points I don't see why not.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 08:20:04


Post by: admironheart


so what are some easy to plan for strategems/psychics and unit combinations.

I'm going with Kraken.

So I have the Trygon bringin up a brood of Warriors and going to use the double shooting stratagem on them.

Can you bring up more than 1 brood/unit.....the FAQ had some changes and it confused me somewhat.

Also IS there anyway to bring in Genestealer unit set up with Infestation Nodes with a different deployment or ONLY thru that ability?

I was thinking the double advanced strat for a large blob of Termagaunts with fleshborers plus the extra 1wound stratagem

Since I have a quad devourer loadout carnifex...the strat that lets 1 extra damage could come in use essentially doubling the wounds....a good use would be vs FNP type units/armies.

I see a lot of rules about falling out and charging....but do any of our units have a strat or option to fall out and shoot? I don't think I saw that?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 09:57:34


Post by: Arson Fire


 admironheart wrote:
so what are some easy to plan for strategems/psychics and unit combinations.

I'm going with Kraken.

So I have the Trygon bringin up a brood of Warriors and going to use the double shooting stratagem on them.

Can you bring up more than 1 brood/unit.....the FAQ had some changes and it confused me somewhat.

With Jormangundr, a trygon can bring in more than 1 unit, by using the 'The Enemy Below' stratagem. Other hive fleets can only bring in 1 unit per trygon.

 admironheart wrote:

Also IS there anyway to bring in Genestealer unit set up with Infestation Nodes with a different deployment or ONLY thru that ability?

Nope. As it stands, infestation nodes aren't much good.
Genestealers are most commonly used by slingshotting them across the board using one or both of the Swarmlords 'Hive Commander' ability, and the Kraken 'Opportunistic Advance' stratagem. Allowing for easy turn 1 charges.

 admironheart wrote:

I see a lot of rules about falling out and charging....but do any of our units have a strat or option to fall out and shoot? I don't think I saw that?

FLY units can fall back and shoot. So kraken flyrants are pretty good. Able to fall back and then both shoot and charge.
We don't have too many other FLY units able to take much advantage from falling back and shooting though. Gargoyles and Harpies mostly.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 10:02:03


Post by: Eihnlazer


Trygon only brings in one infantry unit. Honestly though, with kraken you don't need to or want to deep strike your genestealers. Just Double advance them forward and/or have swarmlord in your list to move them again in the shooting phase.

You can still use a trygon to bring in warriors of course for double threat saturation.

As for the genestealers infestation node question......Well im not sure but I think its possible to still bring them in with the Pheromone trail stratagem if you have a lector on the table.

Don't worry about using strats on termagaunts. The only halfway viable ones are double shooting with devilgaunts (the good gun), or acid blood if khorne berserkers or enemy genestealers are fixing to reap them.

The extra damage strat is really only super good on an exocrine. Dakkafex have no AP so usually will be shooting at infantry and wont need 2 damage.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 10:09:06


Post by: Amishprn86


Page 119 – Pheromone Trail
Add the following sentence:
‘You cannot use this Stratagem to affect a unit of
reinforcements being set up by the Genestealer’s
Infestation ability, or that are added to your army due to
a unit’s ability.’


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 14:31:07


Post by: admironheart


yup read that one....and thanks all.


Any other good combos that are simple?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 17:51:38


Post by: Niiai


 admironheart wrote:
so what are some easy to plan for strategems/psychics and unit combinations.

I'm going with Kraken.

So I have the Trygon bringin up a brood of Warriors and going to use the double shooting stratagem on them.

Can you bring up more than 1 brood/unit.....the FAQ had some changes and it confused me somewhat.

Also IS there anyway to bring in Genestealer unit set up with Infestation Nodes with a different deployment or ONLY thru that ability?

I was thinking the double advanced strat for a large blob of Termagaunts with fleshborers plus the extra 1wound stratagem

Since I have a quad devourer loadout carnifex...the strat that lets 1 extra damage could come in use essentially doubling the wounds....a good use would be vs FNP type units/armies.

I see a lot of rules about falling out and charging....but do any of our units have a strat or option to fall out and shoot? I don't think I saw that?


Sweet summer child, such marvels we have for you.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/23 20:56:23


Post by: Tyran


 Eihnlazer wrote:
if marines can get storm shields for 2 points I don't see why not.

Which I find nonsensical, because now SS are a must have for marine players.

And even if they aren't for some reason I'm missing in Space Marine balance, 3+ armor for 1ppm would be a must have in Tyranid Warriors.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/24 08:28:11


Post by: stratigo


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget it was popular b.c players had 5-7 Flyrants from 7th ed, as it was the only playable list, 5-7 Flyrants, rippers, spores, then 300pts of flavor, Malocks, or Lictors, or etc..


No. People took piles of flyrants because it was rocking the euro meta. But it turns out that ITC format doesn’t support them the way ETC rules did


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/24 08:44:24


Post by: SHUPPET


stratigo wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget it was popular b.c players had 5-7 Flyrants from 7th ed, as it was the only playable list, 5-7 Flyrants, rippers, spores, then 300pts of flavor, Malocks, or Lictors, or etc..


No. People took piles of flyrants because it was rocking the euro meta. But it turns out that ITC format doesn’t support them the way ETC rules did

With this in mind, "Tyranid players being unable to adapt" has never sounded so accurate.

To be honest, I agree with a lot of the comments saying that's just a 40k player in general thing though.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/24 09:01:09


Post by: Amishprn86


stratigo wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget it was popular b.c players had 5-7 Flyrants from 7th ed, as it was the only playable list, 5-7 Flyrants, rippers, spores, then 300pts of flavor, Malocks, or Lictors, or etc..


No. People took piles of flyrants because it was rocking the euro meta. But it turns out that ITC format doesn’t support them the way ETC rules did


No, we still had them all over the place


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/25 00:30:28


Post by: Strat_N8


I don't think the 6th edition book was actually that bad in 6th edition, but it wasn't out very long before 7th dropped and gutted a lot of the rules that the book was designed around. The Smash usr (the main source of anti-tank) was nerfed from half attacks (rounding up) to just 1 attack which made most of the melee bugs suddenly unable to deal with high AV vehicles, flying monstrous creatures lost the ability to drop to the ground and charge which made the Harpy/Crone/melee flyrant mostly non-viable, and the psychic phase overhaul made Shadow in the Warp mostly useless as psychic defense since psychic tests were uncoupled from leadership and the casting modifiers imposed by Shadow in the Warp had no effect on the 7th edition warp charge system. Add in the surge of high rate of fire anti-everything firepower that accompanied 7th and anything on the ground basically couldn't survive.

The main problem the 5th edition book had was it effectively had to work with a single FOC while everyone else had 2 slots per FOC slot thanks to the way dedicated transports worked at the time. If you couldn't do 1 unit (ideally a troops unit, since only troops could score in 5th) + 1 transport with respectable guns in each slot you weren't really competitive in 5th. The edition also was very unfavorable for melee-based anti-tank solutions since the to-hit requirements were built into how far the vehicle had moved the prior turn rather than the user's weapon skill.

On a mildly related tangent to the above rambling, I'm wondering if the old 5th edition-style Tervigon list might be viable in the new matched play missions in this years chapter approved. Scoring is done each turn so the ability to keep a large scoring unit on an objective in the mid-field all game via replenishment might be quite a powerful tool to have and they did receive a fairly nice price drop.

Also in regards to Pheromone Trail, I think the only thing it works on in Matched Play is the Endless Swarm stratagem, which already has some rather nice deployment rules of its own if you can afford to set aside the points to use it (It is nice with a proper swarm list that doesn't have much fear of being tabled, plus is great for getting a big squad of gaunts in the enemy's backfield). It is more useful in narrative play where several missions have either reserves or reinforcements that can be redirected.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/25 00:43:07


Post by: SHUPPET


Don't forget the Vector Strike nerf! Crone was one of our main sources of AT and I don't think anything was hit as hard by the VS Nerf than him, he was designed around having a special Vector Strike. And he was never compensated for that Nerf either


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/25 00:59:20


Post by: Badablack


I wouldn’t mind big flying things like hive crones, harpies and other stuff like heldrakes getting a version of vector strike back. They’re kind of weak as is and it would be a nice boost.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/26 09:57:15


Post by: Niiai


It should also be noted that 5th edition had the infamus damage table for vehicles. Essenstially giving them yet another save roll that was far better then feel no pain.

5tt edition in general was plagued bybsome really strong undercosted units (vendetta). The fact that you strike lastvif you charge through terrain. So much was bad.

When 6th edition came the game got some very unhealthy flying units. (Vendetta.) Nd moat armies did not get good awnsers for them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 11:40:26


Post by: First Among Gators


Ive been putting a lot of consideration into what to do post CA, because theres a loooot of cool stuff to do now. here is where ive settled. All Kraken.


--Battalion 1--

Malanthrope - WL, Synaptic Lynchpin
One One Eye

17 Genestealers
10 Termagants
10 Termagants

6 Hive Guard
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor

2 Carnifex - full Devourers, Acid Maw, Bone Mace, AG
2 Carnifex - full Devourers, Acid Maw, Bone Mace, AG


--Battalion 2--

Flyrant - MRC, Devourers, Toxin Sacs
Flyrant - MRC, Devourers, Toxin Sacs

10 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants



I still really like Flyrants under Malanthrope, I think I would like to fit a 3rd, but it doesnt really fit and its not as important as the other pieces. Ill miss my Hormagant squad but ill make do, 50 Kraken Termagants hold a fair bit of ground and make up for utility with points efficiency instead.
Lictors are just doper Rippers right now imo and yes ill take 3 of that, I cant think of a situation where they wont be great.


I dont think its the strongest possible way to play Nids right now, i think thats almost definitely Swarmlord with 40 stealers plus a bunch of Cult allies, but I think that this will be more enjoyable for me right now and also more suited to my platsyle.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 13:53:39


Post by: addnid


 First Among Gators wrote:
Ive been putting a lot of consideration into what to do post CA, because theres a loooot of cool stuff to do now. here is where ive settled. All Kraken.


--Battalion 1--

Malanthrope - WL, Synaptic Lynchpin
One One Eye

17 Genestealers
10 Termagants
10 Termagants

6 Hive Guard
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor

2 Carnifex - full Devourers, Acid Maw, Bone Mace, AG
2 Carnifex - full Devourers, Acid Maw, Bone Mace, AG


--Battalion 2--

Flyrant - MRC, Devourers, Toxin Sacs
Flyrant - MRC, Devourers, Toxin Sacs

10 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants



I still really like Flyrants under Malanthrope, I think I would like to fit a 3rd, but it doesnt really fit and its not as important as the other pieces. Ill miss my Hormagant squad but ill make do, 50 Kraken Termagants hold a fair bit of ground and make up for utility with points efficiency instead.
Lictors are just doper Rippers right now imo and yes ill take 3 of that, I cant think of a situation where they wont be great.


I dont think its the strongest possible way to play Nids right now, i think thats almost definitely Swarmlord with 40 stealers plus a bunch of Cult allies, but I think that this will be more enjoyable for me right now and also more suited to my platsyle.


I like your list, but I’d pay the extra 20 points to have both dakka fexes with their own -1 to hit, so they can stay away from the malanthrope. One stealer and both t sacs on flyrants is all you d need to drop


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 14:10:37


Post by: First Among Gators


addnid wrote:
I like your list, but I’d pay the extra 20 points to have both dakka fexes with their own -1 to hit, so they can stay away from the malanthrope. One stealer and both t sacs on flyrants is all you d need to drop

I hear you - but Theres 4 Carnifexes not 2. Malanthrope is saving me 40 pts worth Spore Cysts there in his cost plus providing that same benefit to the Flyrants and of course Stealers. It does translate to a big ball of claws orbiting the malanthrope, but it covers the ground quickly thanks to Kraken and they can get stuck into it up close.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 16:04:04


Post by: Eihnlazer


Its not feasible on the table though.


You wont have LOS with those fex's trying to orbit the malanthrope.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 16:20:54


Post by: Amishprn86


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not feasible on the table though.


You wont have LOS with those fex's trying to orbit the malanthrope.


You only need it turn 1 tho. with -1 to hit, and if you go second, +1 to armor, it doesnt matter after that. Once you hit turn 2, the Malathrope is more about Synapse then the -1 to hit. You are paying for it over a Neurothrope and Venomthropes (180pts) if you want -1 to hit on many units. Having Flyrants -1 (-2 for kraken relic), so really you are saving 40pts but losing out on powers.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 16:31:19


Post by: Gene St. Ealer


On the topic of Nid players being bad:

I think in general, 8th edition has brought in a huge influx of noobs who don't have much background or context. For example, just look on /r/warhammercompetitive or on dakka's general topics section. You see lots of questions that should be easily answerable by anybody who's built 3 lists or played 3 games.

In addition, the transition to 8th took Nids from a bottom shelf army (at least from a casual perspective; obviously we had some competitive builds in 7th) to an army with an actually quite solid codex. Somehow (I think GW and FLG are both to blame with their ridiculous hype articles), this frequently translates to "every unit is now good". I can't count how many times I see threads (especially on reddit) where people talk about how "Warriors are pretty competitive", or "you can't go wrong with Nidzilla". I don't know if these are keyboard generals or what, but these generalizations are terrible; Warriors still get blown off the table (spamming them can lead to better results), and for the most part, our melee MCs are still awful (I can't even bring the Haruspex in casual games, the thing pisses me off so much.)

So overall, I think you have this weird gestalt thing where noobs perpetuate bad generalizations and it makes Nid players look dumb overall. For the other crappy 7th edition armies, I don't think this happened with DE because DE got a really strong book overall, Codex: CSM is pretty generally acknowledged to be weak, and it's still too early to tell with Orks. Anyway, just my two cents.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/27 17:13:11


Post by: First Among Gators


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not feasible on the table though.


You wont have LOS with those fex's trying to orbit the malanthrope.

Im not sure what you mean. These aren't long range heavy weapons platforms, they are 18 inch range dakka boys who can chop it up in assault. They advance turn 1, Malanthrope protects them and they snapshot at anything in range. Next turn they push forward and unload, and threaten to roll. into melee with anything with a good enough save to not be scared by the 120 or so Devourer shots.

It will play differently in dif match ups but that's the basic plan. Low LoS and terrain heavy tables help it in my experience. maybe highly narrow movement lanes might be a speed bump but it sounds like I'd have enough terrain there that I can hide some out of LoS anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Its not feasible on the table though.


You wont have LOS with those fex's trying to orbit the malanthrope.


You only need it turn 1 tho. with -1 to hit, and if you go second, +1 to armor, it doesnt matter after that. Once you hit turn 2, the Malathrope is more about Synapse then the -1 to hit. You are paying for it over a Neurothrope and Venomthropes (180pts) if you want -1 to hit on many units. Having Flyrants -1 (-2 for kraken relic), so really you are saving 40pts but losing out on powers.

yeah basically this ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Knights could be a problem but I think I may have just the right amount of resilience, board control, and offense, to clear out everything supporting and just take the field. Maybe crack a single Knight under weight of fire or something.

I'm mostly concerned about a bunch of Boyz or or Hormagants or something charging a Carnifex and then just piling into the whole circle. But I think (hope) with 50 Termagants for screening, a bunch of Stealers held back plus Lictors ready to come and lend a hand, and the fact that Malanthrope and 2 flyrants can fall back over each and make space for the Carnifexes to get out, I don't think that this will be a match up losing thing. Though it may mean playing cagey and the challenge will be making the right decision of how far to extend without giving up too many objectives. I'm confident in my list and I'll let you know how it's perform!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/29 19:59:01


Post by: v0iddrgn


I think one the things players forget about when grading Toxicrenes is their usefulness in getting the Feeder Tendrils strat off. Also, not all their usefulness is built into the combat stats that degrade but also Hypertoxic Miasma, Acid Blood and shooting into other combats. Just make sure to bring other scary monsters in your list and your opponent will have some tough choices to make.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/29 21:59:56


Post by: admironheart


So I like to look at Monstrous Rending Claws for my Hive Tyrant. ....It costs 0
the stock Monstrous Scything Talons has a cost of ....15 True they are marginally better, but If I can shave points....why not.

SO Ive looked everywhere.

Are there any MONSTROUS Rending Claws available for hive tyrants? The ones for zoanathropes, Warriors and Brood Lords look a bit small and silly.

Was there ever an OOP set of them?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 03:10:37


Post by: Eihnlazer


you don't model the monstrous rending claws. You use the flying hive tyrant model and his wings are the MRC.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 03:39:15


Post by: admironheart


I have magnets for the wings. If I don't take the flyrant option I think the HQ comes in at under 160 points


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 08:24:29


Post by: Eihnlazer


Just curious why are you using a walkrant if you want a cheap HQ?

Nuerothropes, broodlords, and Tprimes are all cheaper, and the first 2 are psychers.


Litterally only reason to run a walkrant is if your doing a Monster mash theme with nothing but Walkrants and Carnifex's (mabey an exocrine or tyranofex).


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 10:00:34


Post by: Spoletta


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Just curious why are you using a walkrant if you want a cheap HQ?

Nuerothropes, broodlords, and Tprimes are all cheaper, and the first 2 are psychers.


Litterally only reason to run a walkrant is if your doing a Monster mash theme with nothing but Walkrants and Carnifex's (mabey an exocrine or tyranofex).


Because the other models don't carry a venom cannon and cannot have 90% of our relics. Also that huge synapse actually matters.

A walkrant for his cost is extremely tanky, while a flyrant starts to get into glass cannon territory. You take flyrants if you want to rush your opponent, which is our preferred play style, but nids can actually build durability based lists with leviathan and tanky models which also work decently and in that case you want the walkrants. They won't work at a GT because if you can't jump at the throath of a Castellan you are in big trouble, but many players will never see a GT and for a local tournament a (relatively) slow Leviathan list does also work well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
On the topic of Nid players being bad:

I think in general, 8th edition has brought in a huge influx of noobs who don't have much background or context. For example, just look on /r/warhammercompetitive or on dakka's general topics section. You see lots of questions that should be easily answerable by anybody who's built 3 lists or played 3 games.

In addition, the transition to 8th took Nids from a bottom shelf army (at least from a casual perspective; obviously we had some competitive builds in 7th) to an army with an actually quite solid codex. Somehow (I think GW and FLG are both to blame with their ridiculous hype articles), this frequently translates to "every unit is now good". I can't count how many times I see threads (especially on reddit) where people talk about how "Warriors are pretty competitive", or "you can't go wrong with Nidzilla". I don't know if these are keyboard generals or what, but these generalizations are terrible; Warriors still get blown off the table (spamming them can lead to better results), and for the most part, our melee MCs are still awful (I can't even bring the Haruspex in casual games, the thing pisses me off so much.)

So overall, I think you have this weird gestalt thing where noobs perpetuate bad generalizations and it makes Nid players look dumb overall. For the other crappy 7th edition armies, I don't think this happened with DE because DE got a really strong book overall, Codex: CSM is pretty generally acknowledged to be weak, and it's still too early to tell with Orks. Anyway, just my two cents.


Like i just said, don't apply the ultra competitive logic to everything that is said on this board. For the great majority of players the true 40K is not the GT one. I you don't play at the maximum levels of competition then it is true that almost everything nid works.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 10:56:25


Post by: Arson Fire


 admironheart wrote:

Are there any MONSTROUS Rending Claws available for hive tyrants? The ones for zoanathropes, Warriors and Brood Lords look a bit small and silly.

Was there ever an OOP set of them?

The third edition hive tyrant model came with rending claws on its weapon sprue. I think it's the reason why they're still an option for tyrants.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 13:10:06


Post by: Amishprn86


 admironheart wrote:
I have magnets for the wings. If I don't take the flyrant option I think the HQ comes in at under 160 points


The feet are actually weapons, they are Scything Talons or Rending Claws.

I instead added on more claws to mine



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 16:00:45


Post by: Gene St. Ealer


Spoletta wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Just curious why are you using a walkrant if you want a cheap HQ?

Nuerothropes, broodlords, and Tprimes are all cheaper, and the first 2 are psychers.


Litterally only reason to run a walkrant is if your doing a Monster mash theme with nothing but Walkrants and Carnifex's (mabey an exocrine or tyranofex).


Because the other models don't carry a venom cannon and cannot have 90% of our relics. Also that huge synapse actually matters.

A walkrant for his cost is extremely tanky, while a flyrant starts to get into glass cannon territory. You take flyrants if you want to rush your opponent, which is our preferred play style, but nids can actually build durability based lists with leviathan and tanky models which also work decently and in that case you want the walkrants. They won't work at a GT because if you can't jump at the throath of a Castellan you are in big trouble, but many players will never see a GT and for a local tournament a (relatively) slow Leviathan list does also work well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
On the topic of Nid players being bad:

I think in general, 8th edition has brought in a huge influx of noobs who don't have much background or context. For example, just look on /r/warhammercompetitive or on dakka's general topics section. You see lots of questions that should be easily answerable by anybody who's built 3 lists or played 3 games.

In addition, the transition to 8th took Nids from a bottom shelf army (at least from a casual perspective; obviously we had some competitive builds in 7th) to an army with an actually quite solid codex. Somehow (I think GW and FLG are both to blame with their ridiculous hype articles), this frequently translates to "every unit is now good". I can't count how many times I see threads (especially on reddit) where people talk about how "Warriors are pretty competitive", or "you can't go wrong with Nidzilla". I don't know if these are keyboard generals or what, but these generalizations are terrible; Warriors still get blown off the table (spamming them can lead to better results), and for the most part, our melee MCs are still awful (I can't even bring the Haruspex in casual games, the thing pisses me off so much.)

So overall, I think you have this weird gestalt thing where noobs perpetuate bad generalizations and it makes Nid players look dumb overall. For the other crappy 7th edition armies, I don't think this happened with DE because DE got a really strong book overall, Codex: CSM is pretty generally acknowledged to be weak, and it's still too early to tell with Orks. Anyway, just my two cents.


Like i just said, don't apply the ultra competitive logic to everything that is said on this board. For the great majority of players the true 40K is not the GT one. I you don't play at the maximum levels of competition then it is true that almost everything nid works.


I can't agree with this though. In no universe is a Haruspex killing 16 points of guardsmen going to let you compete in a casual game. I don't think we have many units that are too bad for casual, but off the top of my head:

Haruspex
Maleceptor
Dimachaeron
Hive Crone
Mawloc

These things all have no redeeming values. I'll note that there are several things with almost no redeeming value (Tervigon, Lictor, Tyrannocyte, etc.) that I left off the list. I get that it's fun to find niches with bad units, and I do that all the time. Like others have said, the Toxicrene doesn't suck if you can get it into combat before it's been degraded. But the things on the above list are a different tier -- abjectly abysmal. I just have to stop and think; is there another codex in the game with specialty units who are gimped at their specialty? That is, expensive melee specialists who get ~4 attacks and hit on 4+s. I have a lot of codices, and I can't think of a unit in another book resembling the "nonbo" status of the Haruspex. So many special rules -- so few that work!

Anyway, that whole screed was a little off topic. But I will venture to disagree; Nids have plenty of units that *will* gimp you in casual games and will underperform even against suboptimal lists.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 16:20:02


Post by: First Among Gators


those first 5 units I agree, some of the worst in the Dex if not the very worst.but there's no way Lictors are anywhere near there anymore. lictors are a top unit now. tyrant guard, now that's something really bad


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 21:43:41


Post by: Niiai


The narrative of unit X is bad does not really lend much to the discussion. I think having a different focus would be better.

But I do not think the Mawlock is that bad. It is the cheapest soruce of T6 3+ wounds. They are mobile. It does have the pop up attack. Combine it with other units that are though to kill and you can have a really good meaty list that is hard to kill. Focus on survival and it can become hard to kill all the nids.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/30 22:13:03


Post by: luke1705


The maleceptor is also surprisingly competitive. Cheap synapse with two casts and a 4++ on a tough platform. It needs to be Kraken of course but it also hits decently hard (even though WS 4+ with 3 attacks is nothing to really write home about).

In a vacuum it looks bad, but when you combine it with prepared positions and the fact that first turn Tyranids are almost certainly charging something, probably tying something else up, and generally greatly reducing enemy firepower plus making them deal with a giant blob of genestealers in their back line....well let’s just say that the maleceptor is going to be just fine for the time being. Additionally he likely will be -1 to hit from your friendly local malanthrope/venomthropes. Anyone want to shoot at a T7 -1 to hit 2+/4++?

Are there more efficient things to do with the points? Surely. But you could do a lot worse. I wouldn’t take it if I were trying to win a GT, but saying that I can’t win casual games with one or two in my list is categorically untrue.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 02:47:48


Post by: Badablack


I win local tournaments with a Maleceptor in my list. I’m not gonna say it’s bleeding edge ultra competitive in my scene, but anything that wins me thirty bucks is okay in my book.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 09:25:38


Post by: addnid


I also like the walkrant (mrc and venom canon) for my current Levi lists. He is is very durable with the Levi trait (reroll one roll per round, I usually reroll an invul save on a high dmg wound). He babysits the warrior spam lists (3*9 warriors) for when 1 big thing crashes into them


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 17:07:17


Post by: orchewer


Hi Folks!

Fledgling Tyranid player here. A few of my local stores had some boxing day sales so I'm putting together (literally) a Nidzilla list to start out with. So far, here's what I've got for my Spearhead Detachment:

1x Flyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Trygon

If my math is correct, that's about 750 points exactly. A few questions for the Tyranid veterans out there ...

1) Would Kraken or Leviathan suit that list better?
2) Acid Spray or Rupture Cannon for the Tyrannofexes?
3) Recommendations for 250 points to fill out to 1000? The Swarmlord seems like the quickest option, but I'm wondering if there are more effective alternatives.

Thanks!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 18:27:11


Post by: Niiai


I would not recomend leviathan. You need more synaose for that.

Kronos i bad because the acid sprayvdoes not roll to hit.

At 1000 points the kraken item is quite good. As you increase the points of the games, less so.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 18:33:44


Post by: Skywave


 orchewer wrote:
Hi Folks!

Fledgling Tyranid player here. A few of my local stores had some boxing day sales so I'm putting together (literally) a Nidzilla list to start out with. So far, here's what I've got for my Spearhead Detachment:

1x Flyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Trygon

If my math is correct, that's about 750 points exactly. A few questions for the Tyranid veterans out there ...

1) Would Kraken or Leviathan suit that list better?
2) Acid Spray or Rupture Cannon for the Tyrannofexes?
3) Recommendations for 250 points to fill out to 1000? The Swarmlord seems like the quickest option, but I'm wondering if there are more effective alternatives.

Thanks!


I replied to you other post, but here it goes:

Swarmlord would be a good choice here I think. It could slingshot himse4lf into combat quickly and wreck things without getting shot too much. The Acid Spray Fexes could try to clear any screen in front of targets.

I would go for Leviathan here myself. Very few models, but all the army will benefit from it and would be harder to take down. And if you elect the Flyrant as the Warlord, Levi trait cold be nice and possibly the Miasma Cannon for him too!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 18:37:22


Post by: Tyran


You can never go wrong with some gants to cover your monsters from charges. If you want more monsters then I would say Carnifexes.

The weapons depends on the meta. The Acid Spray is an amazing defensive weapon, but the Rupture Cannon is better if your have to deal with enemy T8.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/31 19:01:20


Post by: Badablack


I’d honestly say go Jormungandr instead. The 2+ cover save on those tyrannofexes will prevent more damage than the 6+ FNP, and you can bring in a ton of units with the Trygon to alpha strike something.

I’m thinking of trying out two Tyrannocytes full of Pyrovores. They’re 10” flamers so they can reach out and touch what they want to, and crowding them around the tyrannocyte means you have to charge both units which is a ton of str 5 overwatch.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/01 00:47:26


Post by: Tyran


Tyrannocites are too expensive for 3 Pyrovores.

One of the biggest problems of the unit is it low model count. GW should increase to at least 6 max (plus they would get to sell even more Pyrovores).

We have similar problems with Lictors and Biovores.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/03 23:42:39


Post by: orchewer


Niiai wrote:I would not recomend leviathan. You need more synaose for that.

Kronos i bad because the acid sprayvdoes not roll to hit.

At 1000 points the kraken item is quite good. As you increase the points of the games, less so.


Skywave wrote:
I replied to you other post, but here it goes:

Swarmlord would be a good choice here I think. It could slingshot himse4lf into combat quickly and wreck things without getting shot too much. The Acid Spray Fexes could try to clear any screen in front of targets.

I would go for Leviathan here myself. Very few models, but all the army will benefit from it and would be harder to take down. And if you elect the Flyrant as the Warlord, Levi trait cold be nice and possibly the Miasma Cannon for him too!


Tyran wrote:You can never go wrong with some gants to cover your monsters from charges. If you want more monsters then I would say Carnifexes.

The weapons depends on the meta. The Acid Spray is an amazing defensive weapon, but the Rupture Cannon is better if your have to deal with enemy T8.


Badablack wrote:I’d honestly say go Jormungandr instead. The 2+ cover save on those tyrannofexes will prevent more damage than the 6+ FNP, and you can bring in a ton of units with the Trygon to alpha strike something.


Thanks for all the advice! I played a team game yesterday where I had the Swarmlord to fill in and Jormungandr Hive Fleet. I'm kind of eyeing Leviathan or Kraken for my next one just to see how much I miss the 2+ cover save. A few follow-up questions:

1) Should I even bother aiming the Acid Spray at T7 or T8 vehicles or reserve them solely for infantry? I was able to fire a few potshots at an enemy Falcon, but the results were a little underwhelming. It's looking to me like the Acid Spray is mainly for taking out chaff while my other stuff go for the harder targets ...

2) On that note, what are the ideal targets for my Swarmlord to be aiming at? He absorbed a metric ton of fire before finally falling, but it felt like I under-used him by not aiming him at the harder targets and getting bogged down in the screens.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/04 04:00:29


Post by: Tyran


The Acid Spray can do wonders against T7, but it will be mediocre against T8. But you want it to double fire, which is tricky with the poor range.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/07 03:29:10


Post by: Arkengate


Is there a google doc/excel thats sortable with all our stats?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/07 04:35:53


Post by: Amishprn86


Arkengate wrote:
Is there a google doc/excel thats sortable with all our stats?


Not that i know of, but i bet you can make your own in 20min


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/07 21:02:28


Post by: Arkengate


Has anyone here used Movement trays? How were they? did they work at all for you and nids?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/07 21:11:36


Post by: Amishprn86


Arkengate wrote:
Has anyone here used Movement trays? How were they? did they work at all for you and nids?


Yep, they work fine, i use the 5 man ones that are staggered, i also have beastmen and goblins so another reason why i got them. The 10man ones are not very good for 40k, but great for AoS.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/07 23:25:42


Post by: Badablack


I tried out a Jormungandr gunline this weekend with some pretty great results. No real deepstrike to speak of, just tyrannofexes and dakkafexes with lots of shooty chaff and malanthrope support. -1 hit 2+ save monster mash is tough to dislodge, though there were some tough decisions in having short range guns and only a few ways to move it up the board quickly.

One big star was a tyrannofex with the fleshborer hive as an antivehicle/anti elite clearer. Popping the scorch bugs and pathogenic slime strats let it do some nasty damage to enemy knights, obelisks, and other stuff that could shrug off bigger hits but we’re vulnerable to mass small stuff. Wounding on a 2+ on infantry and 4+ on knights is what raised it above acid spray for me, though the acid would still be superior in many instances.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 00:16:52


Post by: Strat_N8


 Badablack wrote:
One big star was a tyrannofex with the fleshborer hive as an antivehicle/anti elite clearer. Popping the scorch bugs and pathogenic slime strats let it do some nasty damage to enemy knights, obelisks, and other stuff that could shrug off bigger hits but we’re vulnerable to mass small stuff. Wounding on a 2+ on infantry and 4+ on knights is what raised it above acid spray for me, though the acid would still be superior in many instances.


Nice! I've been wondering about the Fleshborer Hive's viability with the cost drops. Good to see it got some work done. I might have to reconfigure my own T-fexes to do a few test runs...





Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 00:32:02


Post by: Traceoftoxin


Even with scorch bugs, acid spray averages more damage vs a knight. And both of those are better than the rupture (assuming a 3++ of a castellan, at 4 or 5++ it's #2, and 6++ #1). If we had some way to get the Tyranno +1 to hit, the fleshborer hive may be a real competitive choice, but as it stands, I don't think Tyrannos are remotely competitive for anti-tank.

Being good anti-infantry is a role that the codex has no issues filling, so at the end of the day the Tyrannofex remains shelfed for me.

Bring back the stock 2+ on the Tyranno and suddenly it fills an interesting role where it can threaten all targets a little less efficiently than a Carnifex, but is far more durable with T8 and 2+.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 01:03:13


Post by: SHUPPET


I think their versatility (of Acid Spray / Fleshborer Fex) can't be ignored. They don't just hunt tanks they can put the hurt on whatever. They are just real bruisers. I don't think they can solely handle AT duties on their own though.

I personally don't like the Close range TFexes in this edition of piling in to other units


In the case of the Rupture Fex... 48" and 2+ save in Jorm is just a gotdamn brick, and I think they are perfectly viable AT, though I'd still take Hive Guard next to them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 02:04:04


Post by: Badablack


Hive Guard definitely put more of a hurt on targets, but they are far squishier than a tyrannofex. Also their main defense, shooting from out of LOS, isn’t always available or can be negated. And once they start getting shot at they crumple fast.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 02:33:14


Post by: Amishprn86


 Badablack wrote:
Hive Guard definitely put more of a hurt on targets, but they are far squishier than a tyrannofex. Also their main defense, shooting from out of LOS, isn’t always available or can be negated. And once they start getting shot at they crumple fast.


With 36" shooting, if you cant get LoS then you need to add more terrain on the table.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 11:28:33


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Post Chapter approved, how good an army base of 3x9 Kronos warriors with deathspitters/venom cannons + tyranid prime for the buff would be?

On paper that's 9 venom cannons plus 25 deathspitters, hitting at 3+ with reroll 1's. Or, 9d3 missile launchers and 25 heavy bolters with added mobility for 850ish pts. Then supplement the rest of the list as needed.

You can also pay the rending claws and now your gunline can protect itself as well.

Do you think something like that could work?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 14:10:14


Post by: Tyran


Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 14:17:13


Post by: JNAProductions


Tyran wrote:
Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.


Rending Claws are, correct me if I'm wrong, cheaper.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 14:34:06


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Tyran wrote:
Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.


With the huge volume of attacks from 28 warriors and Ws 2+, I prefer to have the occational -4 ap to rend through a 2+ armor rather than the static +1 ap. Maybe I'm wrong, but sometimes I need to be able to open some metal cans.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 14:35:21


Post by: JNAProductions


The main source of 2+ you'd be looking at are Custodes, who are 2+/4++.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 14:56:37


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 JNAProductions wrote:
The main source of 2+ you'd be looking at are Custodes, who are 2+/4++.


At any rate, that's secondary. The main question is, how would sinking 800+ pts into warriors fare as a backbone shooting base to keep your part of the table intact? Then I could fill the board with an extra 80-100 gants for forward objective capping and the remaining points with synapse and utility.

Are 9 venom cannons enough as AV shooting or will I need hive guard support? Will 20 deathspitters be enough anti-infantry shooting or will I need more?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 15:38:45


Post by: Eihnlazer


Boneswords are far better.

For 1 extra point you gain another attack and -1ap all the time.

I'd almost rather scything talons that the rending claws on warriors if I was trying to save points.


Venom cannons are not bad with the points reduction, but they don't put out much more damage than deathspitters on average actually. They pull ahead againgst primaris equivalent and armor, but loose out againgst most anything else for the points.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 15:59:26


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Boneswords are far better.

For 1 extra point you gain another attack and -1ap all the time.

I'd almost rather scything talons that the rending claws on warriors if I was trying to save points.


Venom cannons are not bad with the points reduction, but they don't put out much more damage than deathspitters on average actually. They pull ahead againgst primaris equivalent and armor, but loose out againgst most anything else for the points.


How do you get an extra attack with boneswords over rending claws?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 16:17:17


Post by: Astmeister


topaxygouroun i wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Boneswords are far better.

For 1 extra point you gain another attack and -1ap all the time.

I'd almost rather scything talons that the rending claws on warriors if I was trying to save points.


Venom cannons are not bad with the points reduction, but they don't put out much more damage than deathspitters on average actually. They pull ahead againgst primaris equivalent and armor, but loose out againgst most anything else for the points.


How do you get an extra attack with boneswords over rending claws?


Boneswords just give you one additional attack with them. Like a chainsword does.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 16:42:06


Post by: Tyran


topaxygouroun i wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.


With the huge volume of attacks from 28 warriors and Ws 2+, I prefer to have the occational -4 ap to rend through a 2+ armor rather than the static +1 ap. Maybe I'm wrong, but sometimes I need to be able to open some metal cans.
Statistically speaking the boneswords are better against almost any target except T8. Mostly because of that extra attack.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 18:03:44


Post by: pinecone77


I think you can make a playable Warrior based army. Though I don't think Kronos would be my first choice. But that depends on your meta. Kronos Warriors have Deeper shadows baked in. But Leviathan gives 6++ to Warriors, and Jormangandr gives "always get some cover" and Tunneling assault. I think tossing in Venoms is a perfectly "OK" thing to do, but it is not mandatory.

A couple of folks who post here use Warrior based armies, One Leviathan, the other I think tries several Fleets. Maybe they can chime in.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 18:19:21


Post by: Niiai


I am a cassual player, but I often runn 2 groups of 9 waariors and a prime.

3 VC, Bone Sword
2 Lash whip and sword+ deathspitter
4 with deathspitter scything tallons
all AG

AG is only 9 points, and is a very low investment for safty and consistensy. Or even range.

The VC ads nice support where you need it. Random as hell, but OK, and good reach. Good with the 2x shooting if your hive guards are dead.

The lash whips can be funn as you often have to pile in towards the nearest model. They can allow you to partisipate in combat and still shoot when it is you turn.

I ruun mine with leviathan. That 6+++ is frustrating vs flat 3 damage weapons. Alså, the stratagem is golden if you can activate it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 18:42:26


Post by: Amishprn86


topaxygouroun i wrote:
Post Chapter approved, how good an army base of 3x9 Kronos warriors with deathspitters/venom cannons + tyranid prime for the buff would be?

On paper that's 9 venom cannons plus 25 deathspitters, hitting at 3+ with reroll 1's. Or, 9d3 missile launchers and 25 heavy bolters with added mobility for 850ish pts. Then supplement the rest of the list as needed.

You can also pay the rending claws and now your gunline can protect itself as well.

Do you think something like that could work?


IMO best Warrior loadout is DS and BS, super cheap and very effective, +1attack with -2ap for 2pts is the best melee weapon in game IMO, and DS are 1/2 price HB that are assault with shorter range, if Marines have Deathspitters and BS they would be the best army in game.

But, Knights can counter them extremely well, Warriors are good, but a Warrior army is very Rock, Paper, Scissors.

EDIT: I also wouldnt go Kronos, either Jormunganndr for the slow army with lots of Venomcannons, or Kraken to get into melee fast. IMO Kraken is best for them, as 1/2 their damage is melee, so you want to get into melee. You also could add AG to them (I do) this makes them even faster.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/08 19:56:12


Post by: Arson Fire


topaxygouroun i wrote:
Post Chapter approved, how good an army base of 3x9 Kronos warriors with deathspitters/venom cannons + tyranid prime for the buff would be?

On paper that's 9 venom cannons plus 25 deathspitters, hitting at 3+ with reroll 1's. Or, 9d3 missile launchers and 25 heavy bolters with added mobility for 850ish pts. Then supplement the rest of the list as needed.

3 squads of 9 warriors + a prime is 28 models. With 9 venom cannons, that leaves you with 19 models carrying deathspitters. Not 25.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rending Claws are, correct me if I'm wrong, cheaper.

Rending claws are the same price as boneswords.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 01:22:12


Post by: JNAProductions


Arson Fire wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:

Rending Claws are, correct me if I'm wrong, cheaper.

Rending claws are the same price as boneswords.


Welp, that's my bad.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 02:36:23


Post by: Eihnlazer


Warrior armies need to either be jormy/w zoanathrope support, Kraken/w swarmlord and pyrovores, or leviathan with malanthropes.

I really liked the idea of a Gorgan warrior squad with toxin sacs, but its just not efficient. If the poison strat just granted +1 to wound instead of 5+ for toxin sacs it would be worth looking at, but atm its just not.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 08:49:28


Post by: addnid


3 squads of 9 warriors + a prime will need to be leviathan unless you want to die to mass damage 3 shots.
If your local meta does'nt have much dmg 3 weapons then you can run any other hive fleet.
But when bad boyz such as reapers or Ion heads come for you... What you gonna do ?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 09:52:16


Post by: topaxygouroun i


addnid wrote:
3 squads of 9 warriors + a prime will need to be leviathan unless you want to die to mass damage 3 shots.
If your local meta does'nt have much dmg 3 weapons then you can run any other hive fleet.
But when bad boyz such as reapers or Ion heads come for you... What you gonna do ?


Rely on a 6++ save? Dunno, leviathan always looked more of a gimmick than a real fleet if you ask me. And if they are shooting the ion cannons at my warriors they are not shooting them at my other monsters. the thing with warriors is that they are dirt cheap for the punch they pack.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 11:13:01


Post by: Eihnlazer


If your running full warriors (which you can with some malanthrope backup), leviathan is pretty good.

46 warriors with 6++ and -1 to hit is pretty durable even againgst 3dmg weapons.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 11:23:49


Post by: addnid


6+++ will save you more or less 50% of warriors agaiçnst dmg3 weapons if you do the math : you will roll 3 dices for each warrior sustaining a 3 dmg wound. when you roll a six with one of these 3 dices, the warrior "absorbs" the next 3 dmg wound. See what I mean ? Of course if unlucky on "6s" then yeah, levi trait will suck.
But I agree in general leviathan trait is not great. I'd never run it if I was not running warrior/zoanthrope heavy lists, so for me its a niche hive fleet trait


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 12:07:18


Post by: Amishprn86


I'd rather have Kraken, warriors are melee and shooters, with Onslaught and all assault weapons, a 9man unit can really be scary. Especially since we can give them Catalyst for a 5+++

So move+advance 3D5 highest x2 +1, for average 17" that can still shoot and charge with a +1 to the charge, and thats with out Swarmlord movement, with swarmlord you are adding on an addition 6+run+1, ayou can easily go 30-36" and still shoot/charge.

Im a believer in large powerful units needs to be super buff to work, otherwise they are a easy target. Start them near -1 to hit and out of LoS if you can.

That 9 man unit might outrun the Prime, thats the worst part, so you should use Double movement on him too (Metabolic override), with the double move he should be able to keep within 6"

The problem, it relays on powers to work this way.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 13:11:10


Post by: topaxygouroun i


addnid wrote:
6+++ will save you more or less 50% of warriors agaiçnst dmg3 weapons if you do the math : you will roll 3 dices for each warrior sustaining a 3 dmg wound. when you roll a six with one of these 3 dices, the warrior "absorbs" the next 3 dmg wound. See what I mean ? Of course if unlucky on "6s" then yeah, levi trait will suck.
But I agree in general leviathan trait is not great. I'd never run it if I was not running warrior/zoanthrope heavy lists, so for me its a niche hive fleet trait


Why Zoanthropes tho? Warriors don't need synapse support or anything. Aside from a prime for the hit buff, they really don't need much support I think.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 13:18:25


Post by: Strat_N8


 Eihnlazer wrote:
If your running full warriors (which you can with some malanthrope backup), leviathan is pretty good.


Why malanthrope? If you are running a swarm of Warriors you don't really need a hidden synapse creature and in this instance a brood or two of Venomthropes actually adds threat saturation (more T4 3 wound bodies + reasonable melee and shooting) in addition to wider area coverage on their shroud.

addnid wrote:
But I agree in general leviathan trait is not great. I'd never run it if I was not running warrior/zoanthrope heavy lists, so for me its a niche hive fleet trait


I think it is more of a generalist than niche. It doesn't really have any units that it can't support with its toolbox but doesn't really make anything especially crazy either. A niche fleet would probably be something like Hydra or Kronos where it does one thing very well but offers little to nothing for units outside that specialization.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 14:24:20


Post by: Benlisted


Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 14:34:15


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Where have you been all my life?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 14:36:23


Post by: SHUPPET


leviathan is worse than jorm for survivability on anything that isn't running, and anything that is running likely doesn't want a survivability trait anyway

warriors fill this niche where they want to shoot, assault, and also want run often to get in range, yet do want a survivability trait. They provide their own leviathan buff too. If anything is to be leviathan it's them, but still. it is really nice Vs armigers and hellblasters tho, as someone pointed out its basically a 50% increase to durability.

other than Warriors I think it's a subpar trait for most things. Still, that stratagem is gonna hit pretty hard on a unit with 36x 2+ S4 AP1 attacks, take a unit of gargoyles to secure it and I think it will put the hurt on anything.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 14:46:53


Post by: Niiai


The problem is my gartgoyle list is the flyer part.

The 'known suspects' is the flying hive tyrant, gargoyles (a bit tarpitty) and the neuronthrope. Obviusly just to trigger the stratagem.

Works really well with genestealers as well.

The 6+++ is also very good on gaunts. A leviathan army suualy has a lot of synapse, and feraless smal critters are good,


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 15:01:17


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 Niiai wrote:
The problem is my gartgoyle list is the flyer part.

The 'known suspects' is the flying hive tyrant, gargoyles (a bit tarpitty) and the neuronthrope. Obviusly just to trigger the stratagem.

Works really well with genestealers as well.

The 6+++ is also very good on gaunts. A leviathan army suualy has a lot of synapse, and feraless smal critters are good,


With 25-40 warriors on the table the last thing you need to worry about is synapse I think.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 18:10:51


Post by: Eihnlazer


I don't have the warriors to test it but someone run this list and tell me how it feels:


Levi batt

malanthrope
prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin, warlord, Ymgarl factor, Perfectly adapted

Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal

The Red Terror

Levi Batt

Malanthrope
Prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin

Warriors x7/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal


GSC supreme command

Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w mass hypnosis



2 malanthrope, 2 primes, 3 magus, Red terror, and 46 warriors. That's 144 Deathspitter shots, and 192 bonesword attacks, with psychic support, decent survivablilty (177 wounds) againgst almost any list, and a character sniper (the red terror).


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 20:52:54


Post by: Badablack


Personally I’d swap out the malanthropes for broodlords and take venomthropes. Broods get you psychic powers and better character killing than the red terror, and venomthropes cover everything while eating the same shots as warriors. I’d also consider taking some sky-slashers so you can pop the stratagem, they’d work better than gargoyles imo because it’s just more obnoxious multiwound models.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:02:32


Post by: SHUPPET


I don't think it's very good. Even the first Malanthrope is questionable, two of them is 300 pt tax on your list and you aren't even getting synapse from them.

You have zero anti-tank. And a random Red Terror just shoved in there, when the only thing he does that makes him even a consideration is buffing Ravenors. It's not much points to waste compared to the Malanthropes, but it adds up.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:11:32


Post by: Amishprn86


 Eihnlazer wrote:
I don't have the warriors to test it but someone run this list and tell me how it feels:


Levi batt

malanthrope
prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin, warlord, Ymgarl factor, Perfectly adapted

Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x9/w DS, BS, adrenal

The Red Terror

Levi Batt

Malanthrope
Prime/w DS, BS, Adrenal, Toxin

Warriors x7/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal
Warriors x6/w DS, BS, adrenal


GSC supreme command

Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w Mind control
Magus/w mass hypnosis



2 malanthrope, 2 primes, 3 magus, Red terror, and 46 warriors. That's 144 Deathspitter shots, and 192 bonesword attacks, with psychic support, decent survivablilty (177 wounds) againgst almost any list, and a character sniper (the red terror).



No Anti-tank/MC? And why a Red Terror? Take that out and add in some VC's


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:14:36


Post by: pinecone77


Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:16:45


Post by: Amishprn86


pinecone77 wrote:
Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.


K? Its re-roll 1's to wound, or. I can move faster, and hit harder, then fallback and still shoot and charge giving me double the damage


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:21:30


Post by: pinecone77


 SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think it's very good. Even the first Malanthrope is questionable, two of them is 300 pt tax on your list and you aren't even getting synapse from them.

You have zero anti-tank. And a random Red Terror just shoved in there, when the only thing he does that makes him even a consideration is buffing Ravenors. It's not much points to waste compared to the Malanthropes, but it adds up.


Well, he has Mind Controll. But if it was me, GSC calls for Abominatation infantry for anti-knight. But Metas vary.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:23:04


Post by: Niiai


You need ranged weapons to give you more ways to dictate the battle.

Grab 6 venom cannons and 6 hive guards. That gives you 12 guns with 36" range at S8. The hive guards might be hidden, or stick them nect to venomthrope / malanthrope.

The reason that warriors came up in the discussion is the discount on venom cannons. I took them when they cost 20 points, The new cannon is cheaper. The prime is cheaper.

When you took 1 prime, and around 18 warriors they came close to hive guards on the mathhammer. (Just the cost of the venom cannon units. The others obviusly shoot at something else. Stil 23 point 3 wound heavy bolter is good.)


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:24:34


Post by: pinecone77


 Amishprn86 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.


K? Its re-roll 1's to wound, or. I can move faster, and hit harder, then fallback and still shoot and charge giving me double the damage
You can do both. Using Shrikes as part of a Warrior based force lets you keep your functions but add in the Option for a Strat. Also Shrikes with 6++ > Shrikes without. If there is one figure I wish existed it would be a Winged Prime/Shrike Commander.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:32:04


Post by: Niiai


If you need help building shrikes you can look at theese.

Just make a mold of the top carapase out of green stunnf. (Get vaseline on the model before making the imprint. Then when you have the mold sett it with vaseline and fill it with green stuff. Cut the sculpt on two. Colour some see through plastic card yellow with washes and draw on the black with a filt top penn. Green stuff together.)

Shrikes are a bit expensive IMHO, but they are good with the leviathan stratagem if you are fresh out of other flyers.

[Thumb - shrike.jpg]


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 21:46:16


Post by: Amishprn86


pinecone77 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
Benlisted wrote:
Everyone in this Warrior discussion seems to have forgotten Shrikes being a thing! Particularly if running Kraken I think they are a great option. Sure they can't get the prime buff, but with normal warriors you probably only have one turn where you can make use of both weapons - the one when you charge. Kraken Shrikes can use all their weapons every turn. And flying stuff being able to bounce in and out of combat is just super good in general!


Sometime you should try Shrikes with Leviathan, for their wings and claws strategem.


K? Its re-roll 1's to wound, or. I can move faster, and hit harder, then fallback and still shoot and charge giving me double the damage
You can do both. Using Shrikes as part of a Warrior based force lets you keep your functions but add in the Option for a Strat. Also Shrikes with 6++ > Shrikes without. If there is one figure I wish existed it would be a Winged Prime/Shrike Commander.


You understand that BOTH Fly and Non fly units have to be Leviathan right?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 22:09:09


Post by: Eihnlazer


You do realize Red terror has way better chance to kill smash captains than a broodlord does right?


Expecially if you peg off a wound or two with warriors first.



The malanthropes are actually quite good for the list. You need 2 because one doesn't give a big enough bubble to cover everything, and having 2 gives you a better chance of getting the preferred enemy buff before the game is over.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 22:27:27


Post by: Amishprn86


 Eihnlazer wrote:
You do realize Red terror has way better chance to kill smash captains than a broodlord does right .


WTF? No its not, you need to hit with 4 or more (Its a 3.8% chance, so i would hope you get all 4, tho it might not happen) then need to roll a 5 or 6 on 1 dice. How is that better? At least the Broodlor dis getting 5 wounds in before saves being D3/3D damage and a Smite to chance to hurt him 1st.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 22:34:59


Post by: C4790M


Red Terror has less than a 1/3 chance of killing a captain, about the same as the Broodlord. RT is less than half the price of a BL though.

RTs swallow whole uses the wounds characteristic, not the wounds remaining, so it doesn’t get more likely to proc as the character is wounded.

In the BLs favour though, it can use Smite or Psychic Scream to chip wounds off of its targets, it can damage armour (doing about 5 wounds to a Knight compared to RTs 0.5), the BL also has Synapse, has an invuln, fills an HQ slot and the unit it buffs are so much better than RTs


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/09 23:08:01


Post by: Amishprn86


C4790M wrote:
Red Terror has less than a 1/3 chance of killing a captain, about the same as the Broodlord. RT is less than half the price of a BL though.

RTs swallow whole uses the wounds characteristic, not the wounds remaining, so it doesn’t get more likely to proc as the character is wounded.

In the BLs favour though, it can use Smite or Psychic Scream to chip wounds off of its targets, it can damage armour (doing about 5 wounds to a Knight compared to RTs 0.5), the BL also has Synapse, has an invuln, fills an HQ slot and the unit it buffs are so much better than RTs


But a BL will almost always hurt the Captain, with 5 wounds, they only have a 4++ (other than 1 that "can" have a 3++ via relic) Normaly there will be 2, a 3++ relic and then a normal 4++, the BL will get at least 2 damage rolls on a 4++ with a 50/50 chance of a 3rd, so 2D3 damage is better than than a 33.334% to kill it outright. (this is without CP re-rolls, Smite, or stratagems). Remember, if the BL gets him down to 1 wound, you can spend 1 CP to deal 1 MW.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 03:22:39


Post by: Eihnlazer


Well my mistake on the swallow whole thing. Thought it was remaining wounds. But a 28% chance to nomnom a smash captain with a 50 point model isn't horrible tbh.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 04:41:06


Post by: BlaxicanX


Maybe, but why go that route instead of taking a BL who is more expensive but can also do about 20 times more things against just about any list, while also having a roughly equal chance of killing a captain?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 08:26:38


Post by: Thepatriarch


I don't get comparing an arguably still overpriced HQ choice with a very reasonable priced elite choice. If you want a brigade Red Terror at 50 pts is certainly a viable option if you need a cheap slotfiller for elite, depending on what opposition you are facing.
Against the right opponent and if you choose your targets right he is certainly worth his points. Eating Eldar warlocks and Imperial guard officers comes to mind.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 10:54:59


Post by: SHUPPET


Thepatriarch wrote:
I don't get comparing an arguably still overpriced HQ choice with a very reasonable priced elite choice. If you want a brigade Red Terror at 50 pts is certainly a viable option if you need a cheap slotfiller for elite, depending on what opposition you are facing.
Against the right opponent and if you choose your targets right he is certainly worth his points. Eating Eldar warlocks and Imperial guard officers comes to mind.

That's not even remotely similar to how he was using it and what he was arguing in favor of it for though.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 12:03:52


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Also, who needs any other small character when Deathleaper is so cheap now?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 12:37:17


Post by: Thepatriarch


That's not even remotely similar to how he was using it and what he was arguing in favor of it for though.


I didn't see the point in him saying arguing that a model that is over 2 times the cost of Red Terror is better at killing a smash captain, of course it is, that doesn't mean it's a better use of your points or even the best option to kill a smash captain.
Then I pointed out what I think the Red Terror is good for since I agree it's not a great option if you want to go for a Smash Captain.

As for Deathleaper I'd pick him over Red Terror sure, but for a Brigade you have 3 slots, so if you have the points you might choose to go Hive Guard unit - Death Leaper - Red Terror for instance (again depending on what your facing).



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 14:02:02


Post by: Spoletta


Actually my math says that the RT has an higher than 50% chance to swallow it by using a CP, similar to the actual chances of a BL doing the same. Let's not forget the 6+++ on those captains, which RT just ignores.

You need to hit with 4 out of 5 attacks hitting on a rerollable 2+, which is almost 100%, and then roll a 5+ rerollable with a CP.

Also, i would have to check the wording on "Only in death does duty end", but i think that you can't use it if swallowed.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 20:11:45


Post by: JNAProductions


Why wouldn't you be able to use it?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 20:19:31


Post by: Amishprn86


Only in death does duty ends still works, b.c it says when a model is slain, the RT says it is slain.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/10 21:35:09


Post by: Spoletta


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Only in death does duty ends still works, b.c it says when a model is slain, the RT says it is slain.


Yeah, i hadn't the codex in front of me. Many abilities of that kind proc on "When the model loses the last wound", but indeed that stratagem triggers on "slain" so it works.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/14 22:28:27


Post by: Timeshadow


So I am thinking of bringing a Battalion of Jorg with my next list using 2x Prime, 3x 3 Rippers, 2x 3 Pyrovores, 2x 3 Raviners.
A battalion of Kraken with swarmi, broodlord, 2x 20 genestealers and 10 termigaunts
and a back field battalion of Kronos with 2 nerothropes, 3x 10 termigaunts, 6 hive guard with impaler. All for 1998pts.

Plan is to charge the enemy line asap with kraken stealers strat for dbl adv for one and swarmi extra move for other with broodlord dbl moving with strat to keep 2+ hit on genes.
Kronos take up position center field preferably behind blos and the gaunts spread out to deny DS
Jorg finally is my DS surprise with 6d6 10" flamer hits then kamikaze assaults wile rippers cap backfield objectives.

What do you think....I know people will say it's not fluffy to use 3 hive fleets but imperials are using knights, guard and insert SM faction all the time so why cant we mix it up?

AS for fluff justification I use my own hive fleet "Psythe" and it adapts different groups within it's force to do different tasks.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/15 00:04:18


Post by: Badablack


As long as they’re all painted accordingly so it’s not difficult to differentiate between hive fleets, there shouldn’t be a problem.

If they’re not painted or all the same scheme, then it gets real obnoxious real fast.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/15 00:16:09


Post by: Amishprn86


 Badablack wrote:
As long as they’re all painted accordingly so it’s not difficult to differentiate between hive fleets, there shouldn’t be a problem.

If they’re not painted or all the same scheme, then it gets real obnoxious real fast.


Dont even need to paint, just have a way to tell, a Red mark on the side of the base and a Grey mark on the other is good enough.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/15 16:18:33


Post by: Timeshadow


I just paint the bases edge different colors to signify different hive fleets. Ie purple is Levithian, Red is Kronos, Green is Kraken ECT..


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 11:17:37


Post by: topaxygouroun i


So I have a game today after many months of not being able to. It's a 2000 vs orks.

I want to have a AV batallion of Kronos with 2x3 hive guard, Exocrine and rupture cannon t-fex. With neurothrope/deathleaper for cheap HQ and rippers for troops that would take me to 900ish points.

Then I would like to try mass warriors for the remaining of the list. In that respect I have two options:

1. Leviathan warriors for that extra survivability, with Swarmlord/tyranid prime to walk down the field, maybe with a couple of fexes too if the points allow it. This would also let me have a couple of venomthropes for some extra protection.

2. Jorm warriors with trygons to deliver them and two T-primes to tag along in the tunnels via the stratagem. Pop out, shoot short range deathspitters on a 3+, then NOT charge to get the 3+ save (and 2+ on the trygons) and go for supercharges the following turn.

Which way do you think would be best?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 11:50:56


Post by: Eihnlazer


If your taking the hive guard in a battalion just take one unit of 6. No reason to split them up when you have a strat that lets one unit shoot twice.

Since your up againgst orks, I'd take the jorm warriors/trygons over the leviathan ones. They have so much anti-infantry weaponry that the trygons will serve you better than the FNP. Make sure to take a couple of units of rippers to screen for your kronos battalion though. Don't want those orks to swamp your backfield before you can bring in your other models.


Could do it like this:

Spoiler:

Kronos bat:

Nuerothrope x2

3xrippers x3
12 hormagaunts

6xhive guard

Exocrine
Tyranofex/w Rupture cannon

Jormy bat:

2x Tprime/w ds, bs, adrenal, toxin

warrior squad/w 6x ds/bs/adrenal 3x barbed/bs/adrenal
warrior squad/w 4x /////// 2x
warrior squad/w 2x ///// 1x

2x trygon/w adrenal and prehensile tail.


You'll have to walk the rippers and the small warrior squad because of deep strike PL limitations but can deep strike everything else jormy.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 13:23:11


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 Eihnlazer wrote:
If your taking the hive guard in a battalion just take one unit of 6. No reason to split them up when you have a strat that lets one unit shoot twice.

Since your up againgst orks, I'd take the jorm warriors/trygons over the leviathan ones. They have so much anti-infantry weaponry that the trygons will serve you better than the FNP. Make sure to take a couple of units of rippers to screen for your kronos battalion though. Don't want those orks to swamp your backfield before you can bring in your other models.


Could do it like this:

Spoiler:

Kronos bat:

Nuerothrope x2

3xrippers x3
12 hormagaunts

6xhive guard

Jormy bat:

2x Tprime/w ds, bs, adrenal, toxin

warrior squad/w 6x ds/bs/adrenal 3x barbed/bs/adrenal
warrior squad/w 4x /////// 2x
warrior squad/w 2x ///// 1x

2x trygon/w adrenal and prehensile tail.


You'll have to walk the rippers and the small warrior squad because of deep strike PL limitations but can deep strike everything else jormy.


No love for Exocrine/ T-fex? They gotten a fair deal cheaper. Also, how many warriors can I fit around the Trygon before I have to sacrifice them?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 15:10:06


Post by: Eihnlazer


You have 2 trygons so you have plenty of space. It's only 15 warriors and 2 primes going with them so should be easy enough to fit everything.

Trygons go 9" away and warriors behind them (since you aren't charging with the warriors). This also lets you make it hard for smaller things to charge your warriors.


I actually had the exocrine and the T-fex on the list in Battlescribe, I just forgot to copy them over.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 15:24:57


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Actually now that I look at it, Exocrine is much better than 6 hive guard.

>Both are 36"
>Both shoot 12 shots at 3+ (assuming no movement)
>Both have almost the same ap and damage (ap 3 vs ap2 + no cover, damage 2 vs damage d3)
>Str 8 vs str 7 is better for the HG

but!

>Exocrine has a lot better degradation (need to lose 6 wounds to lose a BS, while HG lose shots on 2 wounds lost
> Exocrine has better defenses (Toughness 7 and 3+ save)
> Exocrine is a whooping 112 pts cheaper!

I think I will be replacing for 2 Exocrines and use my spare points to also get a nice quad devourer carnifex with enhanced senses and spore cysts.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 15:44:54


Post by: Tyran


The Exocrine also loses 3/4 of its shooting if it moves, while the HG only lose 1/4.

And of course the HG can fire out of los.

I would say depends on the terrain.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 15:46:53


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Tyran wrote:
The Exocrine also loses 3/4 of its shooting if it moves, while the HG only lose 1/4.

And of course the HG can fire out of los.

I would say depends on the terrain.


With 112 pts I can buy my own terrain (ie 4 venomthropes).


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 15:54:35


Post by: Tyran


topaxygouroun i wrote:
Tyran wrote:
The Exocrine also loses 3/4 of its shooting if it moves, while the HG only lose 1/4.

And of course the HG can fire out of los.

I would say depends on the terrain.


With 112 pts I can buy my own terrain (ie 4 venomthropes).

Which is nowhere as good as BLOS and can be shoot of the table.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 16:03:04


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Tyran wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Tyran wrote:
The Exocrine also loses 3/4 of its shooting if it moves, while the HG only lose 1/4.

And of course the HG can fire out of los.

I would say depends on the terrain.


With 112 pts I can buy my own terrain (ie 4 venomthropes).

Which is nowhere as good as BLOS and can be shoot of the table.


The point in this discussion is that 112 pts cheaper is A LOT. For the points of 6 hive guard we can have an Exocrine and a quad devourer carnifex with enhanced senses/spore cysts. Is the no los shooting worth it a whole dakkafex?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 16:23:43


Post by: SHUPPET


the no LoS shooting and the ability to be able to move and shoot without affecting your damage output at all, is absolutely worth 112 pts considering the rest of the benefits ..

S8 is also direct equivalent to +1 to wound Vs every single vehicle in the game. Also the big one is being able to double shoot every round with SMA. And from the safety of cover.

It's not close imo. It's comparing one of our best units with one of our weaker ones.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 16:26:34


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 SHUPPET wrote:
the no LoS shooting and the ability to be able to move and shoot without affecting your damage output at all, is absolutely worth 112 pts considering the rest of the benefits ..

S8 is also direct equivalent to +1 to wound Vs every single vehicle in the game. Also the big one is being able to double shoot every round with SMA. And from the safety of cover.

It's not close imo. It's comparing one of our best units with one of our weaker ones.


Impaler cannon is heavy. If hive guards move they get -1 to hit. Certainly not as severe as the Exo moving of course. As for cover, good luck trying to fit 6 hive guards in cover. Even in cover, their armor only become as good as the Exocrine's not better.

The comparison is really a lot closer than people think, and 112 pts is a lot, really a lot of points.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 16:34:44


Post by: SHUPPET


you pack Onslaught specifically for this reason. Move Hive Guard turn 1. Cast onslaught and shoot twice, zero penalty. Exocrine on the other hand has its damage cut in half, and it's damage is already less than half of a double shooting Hive Guard.



you don't put them in cover, or area terrain, or whatever you are theorycrafting. You put them out of line of sight. There is no selective math hammer that can beat that, the Hive Guard is literally infinitely more durable Vs anything other than extreme mobility flyers. If you can't hide then out of Line of Sight on your tables, you are playing the game with too little terrain. Every high level ITC event will have at least that much terrain.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 16:38:31


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 SHUPPET wrote:
you pack Onslaught specifically for this reason. Move Hive Guard turn 1. Cast onslaught and shoot twice, zero penalty. Exocrine on the other hand has its damage cut in half, and it's damage is already less than half of a double shooting Hive Guard.



you don't put them in cover, or area terrain, or whatever you are theorycrafting. You put them out of line of sight. There is no math hammer that can beat that, the Exocrine is infinitely more durable Vs anything other than extreme mobility flyers. If you can't hide then out of Line of Sight on your tables, you are playing the game with too little terrain. Every high level ITC event will have at least that much terrain.


Well they are not the only units on the army are they? If the enemy can't see your hive guard they will shoot something else. It's not like their shooting will suddenly fizzle.

hive guard are good. Not sure they are good enough for an extra 112 pts.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 16:45:54


Post by: SHUPPET


that's a really silly response. You want them to be shooting something else. Neither are a front line tanking unit, and AT is the most precious thing in a Tyranid list. And all that aside, it was you who decided to compare durability and chalk it as a plus to Exocrine, not us. Not being able to get shot is the pinnacle of durability, it's like if Exocrine had -6 to be shot. By your own measure you were wrong, you thought we were saying put them in cover but it was actually out of LoS which is very different.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 17:07:41


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 SHUPPET wrote:
that's a really silly response. You want them to be shooting something else. Neither are a front line tanking unit, and AT is the most precious thing in a Tyranid list. And all that aside, it was you who decided to compare durability and chalk it as a plus to Exocrine, not us. Not being able to get shot is the pinnacle of durability, it's like if Exocrine had -6 to be shot. By your own measure you were wrong, you thought we were saying put them in cover but it was actually out of LoS which is very different.


Well if you have sufficient cover to completely hide your hive guard, then you also have sufficient cover to give your exocrine a 2+ save. Durability is a plus to the exocrine. Your invisible hive guard are only invisible if the enemy does not bring any deep strikers, any fliers, any smart missile systems or their own hive guard etc. That's quite an assumption you are making there. And, since AT is the most precious thing in a Tyranid list, how many more AT can you bring with your spare 112 pts, especially with the venom cannon being brought down to 12 pts?

Not being able to adapt to changes in the game is really not a very Tyranid-y thing to do.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 17:38:42


Post by: SHUPPET


topaxygouroun i wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
that's a really silly response. You want them to be shooting something else. Neither are a front line tanking unit, and AT is the most precious thing in a Tyranid list. And all that aside, it was you who decided to compare durability and chalk it as a plus to Exocrine, not us. Not being able to get shot is the pinnacle of durability, it's like if Exocrine had -6 to be shot. By your own measure you were wrong, you thought we were saying put them in cover but it was actually out of LoS which is very different.


Well if you have sufficient cover to completely hide your hive guard, then you also have sufficient cover to give your exocrine a 2+ save. Durability is a plus to the exocrine. Your invisible hive guard are only invisible if the enemy does not bring any deep strikers, any fliers, any smart missile systems or their own hive guard etc. That's quite an assumption you are making there.
.


No, you do not. Area terrain cover is very different to LOS blocking, you need to get this clear. On top of that, positioning is already super restrictive with the Exocrine, even if there is cover to be had from terrain, there's a very good chance you will be blocking your own shooting by not putting that Excocrine up high somewhere, not a problem for the HG. On top of all that, even in your magical Christmas land set up where you get to deploy into terrain and then optimally shoot at the right target withoit having to move, the Exocrine STILL loses out on durability because that's still literally infinitely less durable than not being shot at at all. You can screen for deepstrikers. The durability difference is marginal for the few units that do get to shoot at it, and completely one sided Vs the major of the game that doesn't. Tyranid are not an easy army to push into and that's generally the best match ups to begin with. Durability is not a plus for Exocrine Vs Hive Guard, that is nonsense in my opinion.

And, since AT is the most precious thing in a Tyranid list, how many more AT can you bring with your spare 112 pts, especially with the venom cannon being brought down to 12 pts?

If your opponent brought Hive Guard and you brought an Exocrine, this is NOT your advantage. You are never, ever getting to shoot at that Hive Guard with an Exocrine, you're spending at least two turns running up the field like a Carnifex to get in range of them (which is basically suiciding your AT but whatever) and then shooting at half strength at best even with onslaught, and assuming no. wound profile drop or tarpit in CC. But let's be realistic the Exocrine is dead by then anyway, not least of which being the fact that Hive Guard has been shooting at YOU all game, since he doesn't need LoS. If you and your opponent both have Hive Guard, that's not your disadvantage. This logic is not very well thought out.

Taking Hive Guard IS taking more AT. They can double shoot. They can apply their damage much more easily and consistently. They have +1 to wound. They are doing a lot more AT than that Exocrine.


Look, you want to play the Exocrine, play the Exocrine. I'm usually all for different interpretations of units, and I've been careful to phrase my overall statements on a unit with "in my opinion", cause that's all it is. But you seem to be arguing now cause you don't want to back down on even the slightest point, and you aren't even being fair to your own logic put forth so far.

Not being able to adapt to changes in the game is really not a very Tyranid-y thing to do

not being able to back down from a disproven statement isn't a very tactical thing to do, but yet here we are in the tactics thread. This point doesn't even make sense for you anyway, one of the major strengths of the HG is that they are far more adaptable and versatile than the highly restrictive Exocrine.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 18:41:19


Post by: Arson Fire


topaxygouroun i wrote:

>Exocrine has a lot better degradation (need to lose 6 wounds to lose a BS, while HG lose shots on 2 wounds lost Hive guard are 3 wound models, they lose shots on every 3 wounds lost.
> Exocrine has better defenses (Toughness 7 and 3+ save) Exocrines are T8, not T7.
> Exocrine is a whooping 112 pts cheaper! It's 118 points cheaper

Just fixing numbers. Incorrect numbers annoy me


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 20:40:11


Post by: Amishprn86


topaxygouroun i wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
the no LoS shooting and the ability to be able to move and shoot without affecting your damage output at all, is absolutely worth 112 pts considering the rest of the benefits ..

S8 is also direct equivalent to +1 to wound Vs every single vehicle in the game. Also the big one is being able to double shoot every round with SMA. And from the safety of cover.

It's not close imo. It's comparing one of our best units with one of our weaker ones.


Impaler cannon is heavy. If hive guards move they get -1 to hit. Certainly not as severe as the Exo moving of course. As for cover, good luck trying to fit 6 hive guards in cover. Even in cover, their armor only become as good as the Exocrine's not better.

The comparison is really a lot closer than people think, and 112 pts is a lot, really a lot of points.



HIve Guard are 36", if you cant find cover to shoot a good 60% of the table and still be complacently out of LoS, then your terrain is the problem.

Hive Guard are one of the best shooting units in the book, there are many good reasons why 99% the players take them. They are for sure worth the extra points.

And no, the compassion isnt as close as you think. If your Exocrine is moving only turn 1 and you can shoot everything you need to without moving (Bc thats the ONLY way he is better than Hive Guard), then again you dont have enough or the right kind of terrain.

Remember Exo starts out as BS4+ and if it moves its BS5+ where HG start at BS3+ and are 4+ on the move, but they dont need to move as much as Exocrine.
Also S8 vs S7, S8 is very important in this game, its the key Break point to hurt T7 and T8 reliably (3+ and 4+ vs 4+ and 5+ to wound) it also doubles out T4 for 2+ to wound.


EDIT: Dont forget 6 Hive guard is 12 shoots, that means for that 112pts the Exocrine CAN NOT move to get 12 shots. Always 12 shots at S8 is well worth it,
PPS: Hive Guard also ignore cover saves


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 20:55:41


Post by: Spoletta


Depens on the houserules used actually. Without ITC putting 6 hive guards sufficently out of LOS is something that is not automatic on all tables.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 21:30:35


Post by: Amishprn86


Spoletta wrote:
Depens on the houserules used actually. Without ITC putting 6 hive guards sufficently out of LOS is something that is not automatic on all tables.


No, you dont need ITC to have good terrain.

If you are playing without LoS blocking terrain (at least 2-3) then you have a crappy table.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/16 22:32:38


Post by: C4790M


If you don’t have the bottom floor blocks LoS rule, then it can be quite difficult sometimes, even on dense boards, especially for a unit of 6 40mm bases. GW terrain is notoriously porous


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/17 00:21:30


Post by: SHUPPET


I'm sorry, but Amish is right. If you are not playing with a minimum of enough LoS blocking to conceal a unit of Hive Guard from LoS, then you are playing a different game. Competitive 40k hinges on having a decent amount of LoS blocking terrain, that's why every single tournament has that and that it's so commonly recommended. This is the standard. One of the tables (there's multiple) at my local has this, and I know what I'm going into when I play on it, and it's a completely different game, even with or without Hive Guard.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/17 01:52:16


Post by: BlaxicanX


What are you guys using as cores (so troops+HQ basically)?

I play at 1500 points and I'd like to play something that can do stuff at every phase of the game.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/17 02:56:28


Post by: Amishprn86


 BlaxicanX wrote:
What are you guys using as cores (so troops+HQ basically)?

I play at 1500 points and I'd like to play something that can do stuff at every phase of the game.


I almost always take 2 Battalions, Flyrant, OOE, Swarmlord, for higher points, from their i change it up from Neurothropes to Malanthrope, but lately testing out Broodlord, or even a 2nd Flyrant

My troops are almost always the same, 2x16 or 2x20 Genestealers, 1x30 Hormagants and rest Rippers as bae (I dont like Tgants), sometimes 60 Hgants

If i had to pick a base no matter what?

Flyrant
Flyrant
1x20 Genestealers
1x20 Hgants
Rippers
Hive guard x6

OOE
Neurothrope
Hgants x15
Ripper
Ripper

That should be 1500pts on the dot. Due note i would normally not play 1500 points so it might be better to take out some Hgants for more Genestealers.

No slingshot Swarmlord, average 36" should still be enough for genestealers turn 1 charge.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/17 03:08:43


Post by: Arson Fire


 BlaxicanX wrote:
What are you guys using as cores (so troops+HQ basically)?

I play at 1500 points and I'd like to play something that can do stuff at every phase of the game.

As a HQ + Troops core, I find it hard to look past two units of 20 genestealers, and a unit of 30 termagants for troops. Then a broodlord and either swarmlord or neurothrope for HQs, depending on the size of the game.
Sure this isn't doing much in the shooting phase, but tyranids are better off looking to their elite and heavy slots for fire support.

With either Kraken or swarmlord, genestealers have the speed to easily assault on turn 1. Most people in my area at least are still struggling with the concept of taking models hostage in combat, leading to the genestealers just waltzing through their gunlines.
Against another assault army, you have a 30 strong screen of termagants to deploy the genestealers behind. Stick them more than 3" behind the gaunts, so that things like orks using Da Jump can't get within 12" of the genestealers. If they can't include the genestealers in their charge, then even with a fight twice stratagem they can't attack them. Leaving you able to counter-charge in your turn.

A lot of people don't like the broodlord even after its recent big price drop, as it doesn't keep up with the genestealers. However mine has been doing great, using metabolic overdrive to double-move it. It doesn't need to charge turn 1. It can still be near the genestealers, and be available for psychic support + a turn 2 charge.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/17 23:12:54


Post by: BlaxicanX


Thanks for the advice guys- it seems that we're mostly on the same page in regards to a lot of the high-priority units like genestealers and hive guard.

After theory-crafting for a few hours, I don't think double battalion is feasible at my points level. 4 HQs is just too much of a tax for Tyranids at 1500 points, what with our cheapest one being 70 points. Guard can do it, Tau can too but I don't think we can.

Neurothrope (Norn Crown, smite, onslaught)
Broodlord (smite, catalyst)
20xGenestealers
20xTermagaunts
15xTermagaunts
3xRippers
6xHive Guard (6xImpaler Cannons)
6xHive Guard (6xImpaler Cannons)
3xCarnifex (4xBL-Devourers, enhanced Senses, sporecysts)

1499

With the HG, fexes and Neurothrope hanging back I've got a decent firebase, while the 'gaunts, stealers and BL move up and run interference. I'm not sure which Hive Fleet to use though. I don't like Kronos here because the range of everything except the HG is too low for them to sit still all game. I feel like it's a toss up between Jormungandr and Kraken, leaning toward the universal utility of Jormungandr.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/17 23:58:37


Post by: Niiai


Just wondering. Chapter aproved 2019... I would need chapter aproved 2018 and 2019 to play with both the manalnthrope (2018) and 2019 for the other units?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/18 00:42:22


Post by: Eihnlazer


We wont know that till 2019 version comes out. But most likely, you wont need the previous versions at all unless you want their specific missions.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/18 10:51:58


Post by: N.I.B.


Timeshadow wrote:
So I am thinking of bringing a Battalion of Jorg with my next list using 2x Prime, 3x 3 Rippers, 2x 3 Pyrovores, 2x 3 Raviners.
A battalion of Kraken with swarmi, broodlord, 2x 20 genestealers and 10 termigaunts
and a back field battalion of Kronos with 2 nerothropes, 3x 10 termigaunts, 6 hive guard with impaler. All for 1998pts.

If you put double ScyTals on your Primes, you can squeeze it into 2000pts on the dot. Not sure how you arrive at 1998pts.

Who's your warlord and what trait will it have?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/18 11:33:58


Post by: Niiai


 Niiai wrote:
Just wondering. Chapter aproved 2019... I would need chapter aproved 2018 and 2019 to play with both the manalnthrope (2018) and 2019 for the other units?


I was asking about 2017 and 2018 respectivly, not 2018 and 2019.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/18 13:06:27


Post by: rollawaythestone


You only need the current Chapter Approved. All points are revised in the new Chapter Approved, including a re-printing of the points for the Malanthrope. So you will need CA 2018 and the Forgeworld Index Xenos for the malanthrope rules.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/18 16:01:15


Post by: Niiai


On the scan I have seen of the picture the 2018 does not have the 2017 updates?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/18 17:59:23


Post by: rollawaythestone


There is a Forgeworld section in there in CA 2018, and it has Malanthrope listed at 140.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/27 11:15:52


Post by: Badablack


Had a tournament today, ran 3 pyrovores and they did pretty well for themselves. The flamers were kind of meh on offense since I brought a ton of anti-infantry but 12 wounds worth of explodey acid blood was super annoying for the enemy to deal with, epecially in a defensive role as overwatch and screening for the squishier elements.

Sporocysts were my MVPs as always. People ignore them to take out tyrants and stealers first, and they get punished for it every time.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/27 11:27:32


Post by: SHUPPET


 Badablack wrote:
Had a tournament today, ran 3 pyrovores and they did pretty well for themselves. The flamers were kind of meh on offense since I brought a ton of anti-infantry but 12 wounds worth of explodey acid blood was super annoying for the enemy to deal with, epecially in a defensive role as overwatch and screening for the squishier elements.

Sporocysts were my MVPs as always. People ignore them to take out tyrants and stealers first, and they get punished for it every time.

Nice, I gotta dust mine off again. I don't really have the mines to support all 3 unfortunately, that's the hardest part about playing Sporocysts I think lol. How do you deploy them usually?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/27 12:11:11


Post by: Badablack


Depends on what I’m fighting. Against something like orks or other nids that are gonna be zipping over I’ll put them pretty far back so they don’t get murdered and will probably have range all game. Before the deep strike nerf I’d stick them in the back to force melee to split their strength but no more of that unfortunately. They make excellent screens and LOS blockers for that as well.
Against ranged armies like guard or tau I’ll put them up as far as I can, and depending on the mission either spread them out to take advantage of grabbing objectives or just clump them all in one spot to rain Spores and shots on some unlucky flank.

Against Eldar of all types they can usually reach out and blow them up wherever I put them so they just stay near the middle where they can spread Spores and have range as needed.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/27 21:42:51


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Has anyone noticed that Tyranids can have a super cheap brigade?

3 x biovores in heavy
3 x lictors in elite
3 x mucolids in fast
6 x msu rippers in core
3 x HQ.

If you go for barebones tyranid primes you can get the whole brigade for 740 pts give or take. You can make them into actual useful HQs for about 1k pts, which leaves another 1000 pts to go out of our way and just amass anything, since we already got a million CP.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/27 22:56:54


Post by: nordsturmking


 SHUPPET wrote:
I'm sorry, but Amish is right. If you are not playing with a minimum of enough LoS blocking to conceal a unit of Hive Guard from LoS, then you are playing a different game. Competitive 40k hinges on having a decent amount of LoS blocking terrain, that's why every single tournament has that and that it's so commonly recommended. This is the standard. One of the tables (there's multiple) at my local has this, and I know what I'm going into when I play on it, and it's a completely different game, even with or without Hive Guard.

If you play at a tournament here in germany you can't assume to have big LOS blocking terrain.
It is rather uncommon that one would be able to hide 6 HG outside of LOS.

Ill show you what i mean.
last year i went to one of the biggest 40k tournaments in germany. It hat 104 players.
But in 4 out of 5 games that i played there was no terrain on the table were i could hide 6 HG.
The worst table i had to play my 3rd game an was basically empty except for one 6" x 6" house in the middle.
My opponent was a fairly good tau player. So... I was tabled in his the second turn ^^.

I will upload 2 pics of the 4th 5th game. Sorry for the bad quality my cell cam is bad.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:


So in many of my games in tournaments my HG die the second turn or even the first turn. I always screen them and have a -1 to hit bubble on them.

I am not complaining. the HG will almost always be able to get their points back or even more.
but if your opponent knows hat he is doing he will shoot them off the table real fast.

What I am trying to say is that I am also considering taking a Exocrine BC of that absence of LOS blocking terrain.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/28 00:31:45


Post by: Niiai


On those two pictures, surly the aria terain is aria teian? Like 8th edition works. Just plop them do they touch the grey and they are in cover.

Bot table has some walls you can hide behind. But in my opinion they are a bit wasted being so far from the middle.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/01/28 00:40:26


Post by: SHUPPET


While most of my local has good terrain, not EVERY table where I play has it either. But I understand that this is not the competitive standard, so when I discuss tactica I talk about the competitive standard.

Though I think even on a table without terrain, Exocrine is subpar. I'd honestly prefer something like two Jorm TFEX with Rupture Cannon under a Malanthrope bubble. If your AT is gonna get shot at you can at least make it hard to shift. Even better than that would be a SupCom of Abominants with maybe an Abberrant unit, but that depends on how you feel bout GSC allies I guess.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/06 18:47:07


Post by: orchewer


Quick question for any Nidzilla players out there ... are Tyrant Guard an "auto-include" if you are running Swarmlord and a few Hive Tyrants or is it still viable to have a whole bunch of Flyrants zipping about the battlefield without any protection units?



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/06 18:57:26


Post by: Amishprn86


 orchewer wrote:
Quick question for any Nidzilla players out there ... are Tyrant Guard an "auto-include" if you are running Swarmlord and a few Hive Tyrants or is it still viable to have a whole bunch of Flyrants zipping about the battlefield without any protection units?



I dont play Nidzilla a lot, but when i do i dont take those. Thats mostly b.c its Kraken with 2 Harpies and 3 Flyrants, 2 Tfex, and the rest Fex's/Rippers with a Malanthrope for turn 1 protection, with the +cover stratagem now, +1/-1 really helps.

Players will (for me) always go after my Harpies 1st, turn 1 shooting, bomb, charge is very annoying for them (And then they get to fallback, shoot, bomb, charge), if something must die, then let it be them over my Flyrants.

3 Tyrant Guard are cheaper tho and can work well, you can easily have 3 of them near 3 Tyrants. I would say try it out, you might like the Guard


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/06 20:18:58


Post by: Eihnlazer


If your playing leviathan and have swarmlord and a flyrant on the board I would definitely stick a unit of tyrant guard down with them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/06 21:14:55


Post by: rollawaythestone


I like the guard coupled with a malanthrope to keep my swarmlord and flyrants safe turn 1.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/07 10:13:23


Post by: Niiai


What do people thibk of the new GSC and what they bring to the table?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/07 11:45:26


Post by: Amishprn86


I honestly need to read it a couple times first.

But the Blips, if we can use them will stop a lot of turn 1 charges (other than Da Jump type moves, but double movement abilities, there are a few of those).

Depending on the powers, those might be just as important as they are now as well.

Many Nids players are using GSC for powers and Abs to anti-Knight, i can see that still being a thing.

Edit: With the odd HQ keywords (again need to read it to fit it together) it might be hard to ally in what/how we want.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/08 01:21:29


Post by: orchewer


Amishprn86 wrote:

I dont play Nidzilla a lot, but when i do i dont take those. Thats mostly b.c its Kraken with 2 Harpies and 3 Flyrants, 2 Tfex, and the rest Fex's/Rippers with a Malanthrope for turn 1 protection, with the +cover stratagem now, +1/-1 really helps.



Eihnlazer wrote:If your playing leviathan and have swarmlord and a flyrant on the board I would definitely stick a unit of tyrant guard down with them.


rollawaythestone wrote:I like the guard coupled with a malanthrope to keep my swarmlord and flyrants safe turn 1.


Thanks for all the advice! Even though I'm definitely seeing the benefits of Tyrant Guard, I think I'm feeling a little better with not having them in my future army and keeping only Flyrants and big beasts. I run Behemoth so my hypothetical Tyrant Guard wouldn't be getting their 6++ anyway.

On a completely unrelated note, what have Tyranid players found to be most effective at countering Knights? My current list is only 1000 points so I haven't really geared it towards Knights since I rarely see them at that points level, but as my army grows, I know that there are definitely a few Knights in my meta that I could start facing on the battlefield.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/08 01:32:15


Post by: Niiai


I do not kbow if nids have a good knight counter. Smite maiby?

Remember that his infantery rules does not work on swarms, like the ripper swarm.

I think GSC hanmers or miners cane be your best option?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/08 03:46:42


Post by: Arson Fire


 orchewer wrote:

On a completely unrelated note, what have Tyranid players found to be most effective at countering Knights? My current list is only 1000 points so I haven't really geared it towards Knights since I rarely see them at that points level, but as my army grows, I know that there are definitely a few Knights in my meta that I could start facing on the battlefield.

Not having a strong counter to knights is one of the nids main weaknesses from a competitive standpoint. Personally I've found it often best to bring a horde and just spam models the knights are inefficient at killing, and win on objectives.
Hive guard can do some decent damage, but need a couple of turns to drop a knight. The rest of our anti-tank guns are on big monstrous creatures, which tend to evaporate in front of castellan guns.

Genestealer cult allies are the place to look for taking out knights. They've got a lot more in the way of high strength weaponry.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/08 07:50:07


Post by: SHUPPET


 Niiai wrote:
What do people thibk of the new GSC and what they bring to the table?


I don't specifically know what their presence will bring to a Tyranid list, a large amount of their good stuff seems to hinge on force multipliers so it seems like to ally them in may take a significant points committment.

I probably won't be playing any solo GSC, and honestly won't even be allying them that often either, I like looking at what they are capable of together but mostly prefer solo Nids aesthetically. Here's what I am planning on running every now and again for when people get uppitty and need a good beatdown - a side detachment of GSC for Nexos CP, Vect, and some assault-out-of-deepstrike goodness in Neophytes and Purestrains.




Tyranid Battalion: Kraken

Broodlord, The Horror
Neurothrope, Psychic Scream

20x Genestealers
10x Hormagaunts
10x Hormagaunts
10x Termagants


6x Hive Guard

3x Dakkafex, Sporecysts, Bone Mace


Genestealer Cult Battalion: Cult of The 4-Armed Emperor
Deliverance Broodsurge


Patriarch, familiar
Iconward, Banner

10x Neophytes
10x Neophytes
10x Neophytes

Clamavus
Nexos
Locus
20x Purestrains




Might also consider swapping the Locus around for a Kelermorph if he's any good or if the Mental Onslaught bomb gets nerfed. I think he's probably a little overhyped though

If I wanted to go smaller than this I'd probably take literally just 2x Magus + Deliverance Neophytes and throw some tarpits at them while Vecting them.



Just my opinions. Might completely change once we've played them. Dunno.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/08 14:21:48


Post by: Zimko


I think a patrol of GSC will be worth it. 1 Neophyte squad and 1 psyker (either Magus or Patriarch, I'll have to wait to see the rules).

But my main reason will be for the Vect stratagem. I don't know what it's called but it's worded exacrtly like Agent's of Vect. Being able to shut down a stratagem is so powerful, it's hard not to take a small 130 pts patrol of GSC just to gain access to it. That 130 pts is also buying the useful psychic powers of GSC, and there might be other stratagems worth using.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/08 23:34:46


Post by: babelfish


Right now it looks like GSC offers us a superior version of Agents of Vect, the Kelermorph, the flamer bomb, Aberents, two useful spells, a CP regen character, blip shenanigans, and potentially rock saw 'morphs.

Aberents and 'morphs provide a deep striking CC tool that has a high likelyhood to succeed the charge and can one shot a knight. They also require a substantial points investment and some secondary units to work properly. They represent a very useful but high cost tool that covers a major weakness.

GSC's version of Vect costs 3 CP instead of 4, and is easy to access via a min patrol or command detachment. Very useful, very cheap.

The Kelermorph is cheap, useful, and can be plugged into a cheap battalion or the like that you are bringing for Vect.

Both of the spells (mind war equivalent- d6+ Ld vs d6+Ld for mortal wounds and the mind control one) expect to do some damage, have potential to swing a game, and are cheap to access.

The flamer bomb is a 160 point unit that deep strikes at 3 inches and puts 20d6 S3 AP0 hits on a unit. Very solid for clearing screens/objectives. Tyranids have access to a lot of ways to kill infantry, but not one that is as efficient in a suicide bomb way. Some lists will get a great deal of value out of them, others will solve the problem in different ways.

CP regen is CP regen. I'm not sold on the character it comes on, but he is low cost and is worth thinking about if you are splashing GSC.

The blips mechanic has lots of potential as a screening tool. Against some armies it will be meaningless, against others it will be very useful. If you splash GSC, you get access to it, so free, occassionally useful tool.

I expect to see two things. First, Tyranid lists that splash a few hundred points of GSC for access to Vect/Kelermorph/CP regen/spells in the form of a cheap battalion or vanguard detachment. Second, hybrid lists that bring Aberants or saw morphs as super heavy killers, supported by classic Tyranid units such as true genestealers, Hive Guard, Flyrants, and the like.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/09 16:24:36


Post by: Amishprn86


The GSC version of AoV will get bump to 4cp for sure. It most likely was printed before the faq.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/09 21:59:28


Post by: SHUPPET


 Amishprn86 wrote:
The GSC version of AoV will get bump to 4cp for sure. It most likely was printed before the faq.

its printed with the errata'd wording so probably not


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/10 03:21:14


Post by: Badablack


GSC also get the Heal D3 wounds stratagem for 1cp instead of 2, I think it’s just balanced around them being cheaper.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/10 06:55:24


Post by: Arson Fire


 Badablack wrote:
GSC also get the Heal D3 wounds stratagem for 1cp instead of 2, I think it’s just balanced around them being cheaper.

It makes sense. Their characters are mostly pretty scrawny things compared to ours. Each of their wounds means a lot less than one of ours does, due to T3 and 5+ saves. So regenerating them should cost less.

I think they have some shenanigans with relics/traits where they can get a T5 guy with a 3++, but that's an outlier.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 00:18:09


Post by: Eihnlazer


It's become woefully apparent that pure nids have almost no chance to beat orks competitively. The ork army that beat my list at the LVO didn't even have to use half his models to beat me. I admit I made a mistake early on, but it didn't effect much when I look back on it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 02:52:12


Post by: babelfish


 Eihnlazer wrote:
It's become woefully apparent that pure nids have almost no chance to beat orks competitively. The ork army that beat my list at the LVO didn't even have to use half his models to beat me. I admit I made a mistake early on, but it didn't effect much when I look back on it.


I am deeply surprised by this. I have not played against the new Orks, but my monster heavy builds tended to crush the old book.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 03:08:47


Post by: Tyran


I imagine that they meansl we have no way to defeat Orks with a competitive list. Sure we can make lists that can crush Orks, but those lists in turn would be useless in a tournament.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 03:20:43


Post by: admironheart


I haven't played my nids in a bit. When last I trotted out my Warriors with my Trygon....I fell in love.

I want to do a second large Warrior unit popping up.

Is there any other mechanism other than the Trygon?

If I have 2 large Warrior units ...what else would you build the army around with it?



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 03:26:41


Post by: Eldarain


You can use jormangundr tunnelling strategem to bring them in with a cheaper unit.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 14:34:50


Post by: SHUPPET


 Eihnlazer wrote:
It's become woefully apparent that pure nids have almost no chance to beat orks competitively. The ork army that beat my list at the LVO didn't even have to use half his models to beat me. I admit I made a mistake early on, but it didn't effect much when I look back on it.


ouch, damn. what was your list?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 17:43:13


Post by: Eihnlazer


The list will be below.

As i said, i did make a huge mistake on the first day, and if I had noticed it I probably would have gone 5/1 for the weekend, so thats on me. I dont feel it would have effected my game againgst the orks at all though. For some reason, I was only taking 3 attacks with my genestealers instead of 4. I realized my mistake after my first 3 games and didnt loose any other games from that point on during the 40k champs.

I blame this on the fact that I just didnt get enough practice in before hand. My local group is rather small and only 1 of the players other than me keeps up with the rules dilligently.


Spoiler:
+++ Tyranids LVO (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [117 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos
. Abilities: Bio-barrage, Hive Fleet Adaptations

+ HQ +

Malanthropes: Malanthrope
. Abilities: Enhanced Toxic Miasma, Monstrous Brood, Prey Adaption, Shadow in the Warp, Shrouding Spores (Malanthrope), Synapse

Neurothrope: Power: Onslaught
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Spirit Leech, Synapse, Warp Field, Warp Siphon, Psychic Power: Onslaught, Psyker: Neurothrope, Unit: Neurothrope, Weapon: Claws and Teeth

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm
. Abilities: Burrowers, Instinctive Behaviour

Termagants: 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)
. Abilities: Hail of Living Ammunition, Instinctive Behaviour

Termagants: 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)
. Abilities: Hail of Living Ammunition, Instinctive Behaviour

+ Elites +

Hive Guard
. Abilities: Instinctive Behaviour
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. . Unit: Hive Guard, Weapon: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. . Unit: Hive Guard, Weapon: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. . Unit: Hive Guard, Weapon: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. . Unit: Hive Guard, Weapon: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. . Unit: Hive Guard, Weapon: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. . Unit: Hive Guard, Weapon: Impaler Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken
. Abilities: Hive Fleet Adaptations, Questing Tendrils

+ HQ +

Broodlord: Power: The Horror, The Ymgarl effect, Warlord, Warlord Trait: One Step Ahead
. Abilities: Brood Telepathy, Lightning Reflexes, One Step Ahead, Shadow in the Warp, Swift and Deadly, Synapse, Psychic Power: The Horror, Psyker: Broodlord, Unit: Broodlord, Weapon: Monstrous Rending Claws

Malanthropes: Malanthrope
. Abilities: Enhanced Toxic Miasma, Monstrous Brood, Prey Adaption, Shadow in the Warp, Shrouding Spores (Malanthrope), Synapse

+ Troops +

Genestealers: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons
. Abilities: Flurry of Claws, Infestation, Lightning Reflexes, Swift and Deadly, Weapon: Acid Maw, Scything Talons
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws
. . Unit: Genestealer, Weapon: Rending Claws

Genestealers: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons
. Abilities: Flurry of Claws, Infestation, Lightning Reflexes, Swift and Deadly, Weapon: Acid Maw, Scything Talons
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws
. . Unit: Genestealer, Weapon: Rending Claws

Hormagaunts: 10x Hormagaunt
. Abilities: Bounding Leap, Hungering Swarm, Instinctive Behaviour

+ Fast Attack +

Meiotic Spores: 6x Meiotic Spore
. Abilities: Floating Death (Meiotic Spore), Instinctive Behaviour, Living Bombs, Outriders of the Swarm, Unit: Meiotic Spore

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken
. Abilities: Hive Fleet Adaptations, Questing Tendrils

+ HQ +

The Swarmlord: Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm
. Abilities: Blade Parry, Death Throes, Hive Commander, Psychic Barrier, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse, The Will of the Hive Mind, Psychic Power: Catalyst, Paroxysm, Psyker: The Swarmlord, Stat Damage - M, S & A: The Swarmlord (1), The Swarmlord (2), The Swarmlord (3), Unit: The Swarmlord, Weapon: Bone Sabres, Prehensile Pincer Tail

+ Elites +

Pyrovores: 3x Pyrovore
. Abilities: Acid Blood, Instinctive Behaviour, Volatile

Pyrovores: 3x Pyrovore
. Abilities: Acid Blood, Instinctive Behaviour, Volatile

Pyrovores: 3x Pyrovore
. Abilities: Acid Blood, Instinctive Behaviour, Volatile



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 17:48:43


Post by: Spoletta


Our units that tend to be good against orks aren't usually taken. Probably our best unit against orks are warriors. Pyrovores and flesborer tfex too should work.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 18:24:53


Post by: SHUPPET


damn that list looks like it hits hard but I can see why it struggled v orks. At the same time, I don't think you should declare the match up gone after a single game.

Ive found that rather than putting all your eggs in the double Genestealer, Swarmlord basket, if you play a more balanced game Vs Orkz, with Dakkafexes, screens, and much more bodies, they are much more manageable. I think even your list might find a way of you played a few more games.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 19:06:06


Post by: Eihnlazer


The genestealers are nessecary againgst a lot of other competitive lists though, and they actually kill orks really well, but any good ork list is just gonna feed grots to them and then wipe them out in return.


Orks get more bodies and attacks for the same price, so there is little chance for nids to beat them.


My opponent could have tabled me by turn 3 if he had played correctly with his list, but he didn't need too. He just keept throwing boyz forward, one squad at a time and never let me cross the halfway point on the board.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 19:40:47


Post by: pinecone77


 admironheart wrote:
I haven't played my nids in a bit. When last I trotted out my Warriors with my Trygon....I fell in love.

I want to do a second large Warrior unit popping up.

Is there any other mechanism other than the Trygon?

If I have 2 large Warrior units ...what else would you build the army around with it?

Jormangandr can use all sorts of tunneling beasties, Ravagers are likely the "best" (Cheap, and can charge a seperate unit) I'm pretty sure I posted a multi Warrior taxi list Waaaay back...might be able to search it out and mine it for ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
The genestealers are nessecary againgst a lot of other competitive lists though, and they actually kill orks really well, but any good ork list is just gonna feed grots to them and then wipe them out in return.


Orks get more bodies and attacks for the same price, so there is little chance for nids to beat them.


My opponent could have tabled me by turn 3 if he had played correctly with his list, but he didn't need too. He just keept throwing boyz forward, one squad at a time and never let me cross the halfway point on the board.
I agree that Orks are bad news right now, one question, did you use Acid Blood strat? I like using that to hose Hth heavy foes the more they kill the more I get to roll.

Right now the "standard" for Orks is Da Jump, and Mob up on Lootas not much can be done to stop that, but it sounds like the foe did not do that.Hmmm...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, I've ruminated a while....I think that more screens and shooty is an answer. You want to get Orks into a shooting duel. How is the question. That is "meta" reliant, how much do you want to alter your strategy? I think if Orks are going to be an issue, then I would "swap out" the third component of Swarmy and pyro and put in a anti ork regiment. Play testing is the only way to know what goes in there, because Pyrovores should be really good vs orks... One bad answer might be ...Flyers, might be that a pair of Harpies could screech, bomb and stranglethorne their way into you heart?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 20:19:09


Post by: Eihnlazer


I use acid blood if it seems like im gonna loose the whole unit before I swing. Its actually a very good way to deal with knights.


The look of horror on my opponent face when I tell them I can deal them up to 27 mortal wounds if their knight kills one unit of my pyrovores in melee is pretty priceless.


The pryovores did fine at the LVO for most of the games. Either my opponent was scared of them and dumped a lot of firepower into them (and not the rest of my army) or they get underestimated and torch objective holders for me. Againgst the orcs unfortunately I rolled horribly for their flamer hits. 3 times I rolled 3d6 and got a 5 total when shooting at them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/12 20:27:46


Post by: pinecone77


It's true, there is no cure for the wrath of the dice gawds. I wish we had a auto explode strat like admech have to make killing Big bugs scarey. I'll keep on pondering the "Ork problem".

Good luck! And good hunting!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 00:08:12


Post by: SHUPPET


pinecone77 wrote:

Ok, I've ruminated a while....I think that more screens and shooty is an answer. You want to get Orks into a shooting duel. How is the question. That is "meta" reliant, how much do you want to alter your strategy? I think if Orks are going to be an issue, then I would "swap out" the third component of Swarmy and pyro and put in a anti ork regiment. Play testing is the only way to know what goes in there, because Pyrovores should be really good vs orks... One bad answer might be ...Flyers, might be that a pair of Harpies could screech, bomb and stranglethorne their way into you heart?

Yeah, I agree with this (hell it is basically exactly what I said). Except the bit about Pyrovores. Also Flyrants.

I don't think you desperately need double Stealer / Swarmy at all to compete. Dakkafexes with screens up are very universal units. A single unit of Kraken Stealers with is enough to do exactly what you need most matches, without dedicating literally nearly 750 pts of your list to it on matches where they aren't that great. Hell you don't even need the full squad. This is advice I got from Matt Root, the highest ranked Tyranid player in the ITC with a very impressive competitive record with Nids (he does exactly that himself) and it hasn't failed me yet. The Swarmy / Stealer combo is great for really rushing your opponent down and does well vs shooty lists who don't want to get tied up by a bunch of angry claw bois (the majority of the meta has lists that will lose a lot of punch once Stealers start their offense). However, Orkz are not one of them, and they will shrug it off pretty well and punch back just as hard. It's not hard to see why a list with 750 pts spent in 3 separate units will have a bad match up here, I don't think it's a Tyranid problem so much as it that if you don't take a TAC list, you will find that right next to the good match ups, there is a bad match up too.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 00:14:49


Post by: Niiai


When I playeds nids vs the index orks a stealer had about as good chance of being killed by a boy as the other way around. While not true, stealers are slightly better, the fact that boyz are that much cheaper makes it bad.

The stratagem that lets you fight outside of turn sequence regarding charges is quite devestating with multiple groups of stealers.

I always run 18 warriors. They do good vs orks.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 02:56:53


Post by: Eihnlazer


If I could go back to September and start replanning my army I might have done warrior spam instead.



I really wanna see if I can make a list like this work competitively:
Spoiler:

+++ We Are (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [113 PL, 1999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Leviathan
. Abilities: Hive Fleet Adaptations, Synaptic Imperative

+ HQ +

Neurothrope: Power: The Horror
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Spirit Leech, Synapse, Warp Field, Warp Siphon, Psychic Power: The Horror, Psyker: Neurothrope, Unit: Neurothrope, Weapon: Claws and Teeth

Tyranid Prime: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Alpha Warrior, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse, Unit: Tyranid Prime, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter

+ Troops +

Tyranid Warriors
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Synapse
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon

Tyranid Warriors
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Synapse
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon

Tyranid Warriors
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Synapse
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr
. Abilities: Hive Fleet Adaptations, Tunnel Networks

+ HQ +

Neurothrope: Power: Catalyst
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Spirit Leech, Synapse, Warp Field, Warp Siphon, Psychic Power: Catalyst, Psyker: Neurothrope, Unit: Neurothrope, Weapon: Claws and Teeth

Tyranid Prime: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter, The Ymgarl Factor, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Insidious Threat
. Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Alpha Warrior, Insidious Threat, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse, The Ymgarl Factor, Toxin Sacs, The Ymgarl Factor: 1, 2, 3, Unit: Tyranid Prime, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm
. Abilities: Burrowers, Instinctive Behaviour

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm
. Abilities: Burrowers, Instinctive Behaviour

Tyranid Warriors
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Synapse
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. . Abilities: Adrenal Glands, Unit: Tyranid Warrior, Weapon: Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

The Red Terror
. Abilities: Death from Below, Feeding Frenzy, Swallow Whole, Unit: The Red Terror, Weapon: Prehensile Pincer Tail, Scything Talons

Zoanthropes: Power: Psychic Scream, 4x Zoanthrope
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Synapse, Warp Blast, Warp Field, Psychic Power: Psychic Scream, Psyker: Zoanthropes

Zoanthropes: Power: Paroxysm, 4x Zoanthrope
. Abilities: Shadow in the Warp, Synapse, Warp Blast, Warp Field, Psychic Power: Paroxysm, Psyker: Zoanthropes

+ Fast Attack +

Raveners
. Abilities: Death from Below, Instinctive Behaviour
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons
. . Unit: Ravener, Weapon: Scything Talons
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons
. . Unit: Ravener, Weapon: Scything Talons
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons
. . Unit: Ravener, Weapon: Scything Talons
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons
. . Unit: Ravener, Weapon: Scything Talons

++ Fortification Network (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken
. Abilities: Hive Fleet Adaptations, Questing Tendrils

+ Fortification +

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter
. Abilities: Bio-fortress, Bombardment Organism, Death Throes, Immobile, Instinctive Behaviour, Psychic Resonator, Spawn Spore Mines, Spore Node, Stat Damage - S & A: Sporocyst (1), Sporocyst (2), Sporocyst (3), Unit: Sporocyst, Weapon: Deathspitter, Spore Node

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter
. Abilities: Bio-fortress, Bombardment Organism, Death Throes, Immobile, Instinctive Behaviour, Psychic Resonator, Spawn Spore Mines, Spore Node, Stat Damage - S & A: Sporocyst (1), Sporocyst (2), Sporocyst (3), Unit: Sporocyst, Weapon: Deathspitter, Spore Node

Sporocyst: 5x Deathspitter
. Abilities: Bio-fortress, Bombardment Organism, Death Throes, Immobile, Instinctive Behaviour, Psychic Resonator, Spawn Spore Mines, Spore Node, Stat Damage - S & A: Sporocyst (1), Sporocyst (2), Sporocyst (3), Unit: Sporocyst, Weapon: Deathspitter, Spore Node



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 08:09:25


Post by: pinecone77


That looks fun! Though I'd likely swap one of the Leviathan Warrior Broods for some support bug, and or Gribblies. Differant styles of play.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 10:10:55


Post by: nathwraith


Yeah warriors look like the one to combat orks with.

Genestealers seem almost wasted VS normal boys as they will die just as quickly.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 10:11:31


Post by: PistolPete2525


Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to nids. just got a bunch of stuff in a lot and looking for ways to fill it out from here. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771380.page I was reading the last page of posts and I cant say ive had to deal with an ork swarm army before but i did have to deal with a nid swarm before while playing eldar in 7th. and there wasnt really much i could have dont at the time either. maximising shots and widdleing them down before they get to you is best. fall back shoot and overwatch is the tactic I would use with my tau. smite and scream, Twin Dev flyrants, fleshborer hive tyranofex with the shoot again stratigem. melee bugs with spine fists and the mortal wound explodey stratigem in the fight phase. just diffrent ideas to maximize shots remembering that mortal wounds carry over. so biovores can take out small pockets too.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 18:27:42


Post by: Amishprn86


IDK, i think genestealers are great at mopping up 2-3 units of hurt orks, get them down to 20 models per unit and with kraken movement, Overrun and Adrenal Surge. You can easily kill 40+ Orks. And now you have a very threatening unit in their faces they have to deal with, with a Flyrant using Kraken WL trait it makes sure your 20 stealers dont get attacked on right away.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 19:51:40


Post by: Arson Fire


Full unit of genestealers vs full unit of orks, whoever swings first tends to wipe the other unit.
There are usually more units of boyz than you have of genestealers, but they are a lot slower (barring shenanigans like Da Jump). So you can usually dictate engagement. However unit for unit trades are not in your favor.

Paroxysm is very important here. Allowing two units of genestealers to simultaneously engage and wipe two units of boyz without risk of being interrupted by a Counter-Offensive stratagem.
Unfortunately the Kraken warlord trait is not of much use here. As it both does not prevent use of an interrupt stratagem, and also does not prevent a charging unit from fighting first in the event they charge you. It's only good to make you fight first in ongoing combats.
Oddly enough, a harpy isn't actually a completely terrible choice in this matchup. Given the importance of not letting the orks interrupt and hit your genestealers. What amounts to a paroxysm that can't fail to cast or be denied is a very useful thing to have. Probably not enough that I'd include one in a TAC list though.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 21:42:08


Post by: Vineheart01


Hi, question regarding a newcomer getting into tyranids.
One of my friends wants to get into 40k and really likes nids. I already had the codex because i was contemplating getting them so i gave it to him, i opted out because i play orks and theyre pretty similar.

He really likes the tervigon mentality. I see they effectively got a 60pt price drop in CA so thats good, not really sure if theyre worth it though. My local area is only semi-competitive so we can usually get away with more janky stuff than normal.
Would he be fine getting 2-3 Tervigons and spamming gaunts as a main tactic or even in a somewhat casual setting still wasting his time/money with them? I dont know a single local tyranid player in 8th lol the ones i know have tyranids either stopped playing 40k or have yet to touch them in 8th


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 22:28:27


Post by: Spoletta


It will not win him any tournaments, but 2 tervigons and 3 or 4 units of 30 mixed termagants (20 devourers, 10 fleshborers) is a passable basis for a list.

Be ready to have a lot of patience with him the first times, because in the hands of a new player that list requires 5 hours games


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 23:01:26


Post by: Vineheart01


None of us play tournaments anyway. Think we have 2 people in the area period that goto tournaments and i dont see them that much anyway.

Thanks. I am usually in the boat of rule of cool > optimal gameplay but at the same token the unit has to atleast be functional. After all i use killakanz alot lol


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/13 23:01:37


Post by: SHUPPET


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Hi, question regarding a newcomer getting into tyranids.
One of my friends wants to get into 40k and really likes nids. I already had the codex because i was contemplating getting them so i gave it to him, i opted out because i play orks and theyre pretty similar.

He really likes the tervigon mentality. I see they effectively got a 60pt price drop in CA so thats good, not really sure if theyre worth it though. My local area is only semi-competitive so we can usually get away with more janky stuff than normal.
Would he be fine getting 2-3 Tervigons and spamming gaunts as a main tactic or even in a somewhat casual setting still wasting his time/money with them? I dont know a single local tyranid player in 8th lol the ones i know have tyranids either stopped playing 40k or have yet to touch them in 8th

I run one Tervigon. They are pretty good for replenishing the flesborer gants in front of some Devilgants. Put the Kraken relic on them and keep them near a Malanthrope and they are -2 to hit, and that's before you start dishing out Horror and Hypnosis, it survives like every game that you don't like it get charged by a smash captain.

I don't know about running 3. I'd probably just prefer to take another 150 gants instead.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/14 11:57:14


Post by: nordsturmking


Does anybody know how tyranids did at LVO?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/14 12:42:32


Post by: Spoletta


Souped with index GSC they had some good results.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/17 13:29:29


Post by: ansem90


Anyone knows how to make a nidzilla army?
Starting from 1000 points and expanding to 1500


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/17 14:21:20


Post by: SHUPPET


Carnifexes and Flyrants


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 07:54:19


Post by: Eihnlazer


Nidzilla also needs to be either kraken for mobility or leviathan for the 6+++ on everything.

Sporocysts are pretty good if your going leviathan since they extend your synapse and match the theme.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 11:05:56


Post by: topaxygouroun i


well obvious candidates are dakkafexes for a nidzilla list. Then I would say trygons are now pretty tasty with the points drop on their claws. Sporocysts are really good at holding backfield objectives, but right now the tyrannocyte is actually cheaper so...

Old One eye is obvious addition so we can have something that can actually crack open tanks (when I see all these massive trygons and their....str 7 I get depression).

What is also really tasty I think these days, is harpies with dual stranglethorn cannons. With all the new orkz and GSC running around, a flying monster with 2d6 autocannon shots, potentially at 3+ plus the salvoes is really tasty for 140ish points. What's more, it can help charge in the turn you really need to do the hurt in hth, so that the enemy cannot break the sequence after your ooe has attacked and kill your other monsters.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 11:15:41


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


topaxygouroun i wrote:
well obvious candidates are dakkafexes for a nidzilla list. Then I would say trygons are now pretty tasty with the points drop on their claws. Sporocysts are really good at holding backfield objectives, but right now the tyrannocyte is actually cheaper so...

Old One eye is obvious addition so we can have something that can actually crack open tanks (when I see all these massive trygons and their....str 7 I get depression).

What is also really tasty I think these days, is harpies with dual stranglethorn cannons. With all the new orkz and GSC running around, a flying monster with 2d6 autocannon shots, potentially at 3+ plus the salvoes is really tasty for 140ish points. What's more, it can help charge in the turn you really need to do the hurt in hth, so that the enemy cannot break the sequence after your ooe has attacked and kill your other monsters.


How is the harpy getting a 3+? the +1 armour as if in cover doesn't affect flying/untis that charged or advanced.

Also Im planning on running a MASSIVE Carnifex herd (Im talking 9 + OOE), would it be a good idea to give ALL spore cysts as Im not planning on venomthropes, 3 dedicated CC only, 3 dakkafexs (quad devourers) and 3 heavy bio cannon carriers with some back up melee.

Along side this contingent I would also be running some warriors and hordes of gaunts to clog up enemy guns/pin them in place.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 11:23:12


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
well obvious candidates are dakkafexes for a nidzilla list. Then I would say trygons are now pretty tasty with the points drop on their claws. Sporocysts are really good at holding backfield objectives, but right now the tyrannocyte is actually cheaper so...

Old One eye is obvious addition so we can have something that can actually crack open tanks (when I see all these massive trygons and their....str 7 I get depression).

What is also really tasty I think these days, is harpies with dual stranglethorn cannons. With all the new orkz and GSC running around, a flying monster with 2d6 autocannon shots, potentially at 3+ plus the salvoes is really tasty for 140ish points. What's more, it can help charge in the turn you really need to do the hurt in hth, so that the enemy cannot break the sequence after your ooe has attacked and kill your other monsters.


How is the harpy getting a 3+? the +1 armour as if in cover doesn't affect flying/untis that charged or advanced.

Also Im planning on running a MASSIVE Carnifex herd (Im talking 9 + OOE), would it be a good idea to give ALL spore cysts as Im not planning on venomthropes, 3 dedicated CC only, 3 dakkafexs (quad devourers) and 3 heavy bio cannon carriers with some back up melee.

Along side this contingent I would also be running some warriors and hordes of gaunts to clog up enemy guns/pin them in place.


I meant 3+ to hit. Stranglethorn cannon rules. Against masses of Ork boyz, a dual stranglethorn harpy can deal a lot of pain for really cheap. On the other hand, so do dakkafexes. Only harpy has a lot longer range and Damage 2.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 11:56:09


Post by: Eihnlazer


Don't forget that the forgeworld Crusher carnifex's don't stop you from taking more than 9 carnifex's btw. They have a completely different datasheet.

But yeah, trygons and Exocrines/tyranofex's are also legit for nidzilla.




Probably the best list I could come up with for local RTT's:

Spoiler:
Spearhead jormy:

Malanthrope/warlord insidious threat

3x tyranofex/w rupture cannon

spearhead kraken:

OOE

3x carnifex/w double MST, adrenal, tusks, spores, chitin thorns, 2x thresher scythe

2x2 (4) carni/w spores, double double devourers/w brainleech, enhanced senses 2x bone mace

Fortification kraken:

2x sporocysts





sporocysts as kraken so the spores can do something. Only 5 CP, but you really only need a few CP to double advance/metabolic overdrive to get up the field early.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 14:07:32


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


 Eihnlazer wrote:


Probably the best list I could come up with for local RTT's:

Spearhead jormy:

Malanthrope/warlord insidious threat

3x tyranofex/w rupture cannon

spearhead kraken:

OOE

3x carnifex/w double MST, adrenal, tusks, spores, chitin thorns, 2x thresher scythe

2x2 (4) carni/w spores, double double devourers/w brainleech, enhanced senses 2x bone mace

Fortification kraken:

2x sporocysts

sporocysts as kraken so the spores can do something. Only 5 CP, but you really only need a few CP to double advance/metabolic overdrive to get up the field early.



Im fairly sure carnifexs can have EITHER spores or chitin thorns bud

Otherwise looking good, I don't own any sporocysts, are they worth using in Nidzilla?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 14:53:13


Post by: Eihnlazer


Sporocysts are great in any list that has a free detachment slot and needs either board coverage (due to lack of models or slow) and objective holders (since they sit still all game).


They are cheap enough that their T6 4+sv isn't a big concern. Not to mention if your opponent actually lets them live for 3 turns they basically make their points back in spore mines.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 15:35:13


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Sporecysts can be annoying. But at the same point cost, why not have the tyrannocyte instead? Can deepstrike, can move and can transport stuff in it, while having the same damage output and is even 4 points cheaper than the sporocyst

It also protects the thing you want to drop from Forewarned shaneninaninenigans.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 15:55:23


Post by: Eihnlazer


Tyranocyte doesn't spawn spore mines, nor does it spread synapse around.

Yeah you could use it to deep strike something, but if your not using it for that there is little point to having one.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/18 16:08:38


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Tyranocyte doesn't spawn spore mines, nor does it spread synapse around.

Yeah you could use it to deep strike something, but if your not using it for that there is little point to having one.


If I could have either of them without having to buy 5 weapons on them I would be dancing from joy. Or if they gave me an option for 5 flamers, even silly ones. As they stand now, I'm on the fence. The spore mine plan takes a long time to really be effective and they don't really match with any of the hive fleets save Leviathan. Even the Kronos sporecysts shooting is largely underwhelming. I just don't feel like spending 100 pts for spore mines over time, I'd rather have the spore mines in the first place. Also, with warriors being as cheap as they are now, I know where I will be looking at if I need extra synapse.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/19 15:11:58


Post by: Dynas


 Eihnlazer wrote:
I use acid blood if it seems like im gonna loose the whole unit before I swing. Its actually a very good way to deal with knights.


The look of horror on my opponent face when I tell them I can deal them up to 27 mortal wounds if their knight kills one unit of my pyrovores in melee is pretty priceless.


The pryovores did fine at the LVO for most of the games. Either my opponent was scared of them and dumped a lot of firepower into them (and not the rest of my army) or they get underestimated and torch objective holders for me. Againgst the orcs unfortunately I rolled horribly for their flamer hits. 3 times I rolled 3d6 and got a 5 total when shooting at them.


How are you getting 27 mortal wounds. Areyou combo with Caustic blood and acid blood? Unit of 3? Are you Deepstrike with Trygon/raveneor tunnel and using acid spray?



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/19 16:12:38


Post by: Eihnlazer


yep. unit of 3, activating caustic blood, can potentially deal out 27 mortal wounds by dying. Highly unlikely, but the potential is there.

The average is something like 5.5 mortal wounds I believe.



It is the fact that I could get lucky and potentially one shot his knight when he kills my 75 pt unit that makes a knight player think hard about it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/19 16:30:46


Post by: Zimko


You could 'potentially' kill a knight with 24 fleshborer shots too. That doesn't make it a threat.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/19 18:42:21


Post by: Eihnlazer


I'd say mortal wounds were a bit more dangerous than fleshborer's, but I could be wrong...…..

Also 24 fleshborer gaunts cost 92pts...…...


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/19 19:11:54


Post by: orchewer


ansem90 wrote:
Anyone knows how to make a nidzilla army?
Starting from 1000 points and expanding to 1500


I've been having a lot of fun with Tyrannofexes and Acid Sprays. The auto-hitting really messes with opponents who rely on a -1 to hit bonus (Ulthwe Eldar etc.) and the high starting strength means that it can threaten both infantry and vehicles. Combined with the Pathogenic Slime stratagem and getting into mid-field position by Turn 2, those things can do a stupid amount of unexpected damage.

My Nidzilla list currently consists of 5 models at 1000 points. It's not the most competitive, but it's been a hoot to play.

HQ
1) Swarmlord
2) Hive Tyrant with Wings:
- Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
2) Tyrannofex: Acid Spry, Stinger Salvo
3) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Spike

That's 1000 points on the nose. For expanding to 1500, I'm thinking of adding a few more Hive Tyrants along with my Swarmlord to make a Supreme HQ Detachment. The only real issue in this list is that I don't have a lot of anti-heavy armour, but I'm fortunate that there are not a lot of Knights in my meta.

Happy hunting!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/02/19 19:30:38


Post by: Zimko


 Eihnlazer wrote:
I'd say mortal wounds were a bit more dangerous than fleshborer's, but I could be wrong...…..

Also 24 fleshborer gaunts cost 92pts...…...


My point is that a knight player isn't going to care about the potential of 24 mortal wounds or whatever if the average is more like 5. It's not going to change how they play except maybe make them want to shoot the unit instead of charging it. Every unit has the potential to wound a T8 target.