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Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 04:47:20


Post by: weaver9


 dan2026 wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Tyrant Guard?
Is it best to keep them stock (and cheaper) rather than springing for expensive crushing claws?


Took 3 with the swarmlord in a game today. Stock with toxin sacs and adrenal glands.
Very useful in keeping him alive vs a renegade knight's shooting, plus some cultist fire.

Because of them, swamlord was able to take out the knight, plus some tzaangor bowmen.

Edit: my army relies on the swarmlord slingshotting kraken stealers. When I don't take tyrant guard he gets shot off the field around T3 vs most armies I play. With them he lasts t4 or longer.

Unsure of they're worth the points. Thinking about a malanthrope instead... but unsure how to quantify which is better protection.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 06:07:15


Post by: SHUPPET


 Eldarain wrote:
Stack them both.

i too will have a 600pt Swarmlord to go thanks


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 06:08:57


Post by: Eldarain


That boat sailed when taking Swarmy with Guard. It's not like the Thrope wouldn't be supporting other elements


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 06:12:53


Post by: SHUPPET


I'm with you on the Malanthrope. As you said, the boat sails with the Guard.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 06:54:30


Post by: Badablack


If you want a -1 to protect both units just use venomthropes. They work at 1-2 models on the hive guard, who are the ones getting shot first instead of the swarmlord by anyone with a brain.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 09:51:40


Post by: Master Chief VF


 dan2026 wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Tyrant Guard?
Is it best to keep them stock (and cheaper) rather than springing for expensive crushing claws?


Just keep them cheap, they are just more wound for a swarmy and/or a hive tyrant.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 10:02:55


Post by: SHUPPET


honestly if you are going to take them, the 1pt toxin sacs are basically an autoinclude on 37pt model that already comes with rending claws. Similar with AG too.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 10:08:07


Post by: Master Chief VF


 SHUPPET wrote:
honestly if you are going to take them, the 1pt toxin sacs are basically an autoinclude on 37pt model that already comes with rending claws. Similar with AG too.


Usually I run them with AG only and they are more than perfect for me.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 14:51:04


Post by: Xenomancers


 SHUPPET wrote:
They are absolute Garbage. Imagine Hellblasters, but you replaced the Plasma with... Scything Talons. And +1W. That's literally what Tyrant Guard are. Oh and they cost more. Trash unit that GW has shown no interest in fixing in like 15 years.

Dat T5 though. Dat 3+ save. So valuable you must pay much points. LOL. What is a Tyrant guard actually worth? 20 points?

Also the swarmlord. Has a great ability but it's actual value considering it can be removed easily is probably only about 40 points. Then his increase combat ability...I'd say another 40 points over a walkrant with boneswords. So about 240 is right for the swarmlord.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 15:33:31


Post by: Dynas


Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 15:37:22


Post by: Xenomancers


 Dynas wrote:
Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.

Swarmlord is unique - he can't take relics and has a warlord trait he must take. This warlord trait also sucks. To be -1 he has to be next to a malenthrope. This however won't protect you much - you are better off taking overpriced tyrant gaurd.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 16:52:29


Post by: Amishprn86


 Dynas wrote:
Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.



Well.... I dont have any new pictures, this one is 4-5yrs old and i have Doubled if not Triple my amount, i'm up to 14k points now.

I've added something like 100 gants, 30 goyles, Barb H, Dimachaeron, 2 Stone Crusher (one of each), more Fexes, Tfex, more stealers, 2 more flyers, 2 more Flyrants, a new real Tyrannocyte (Mine is custom and was the size int he 5tf codex) sadly total of 9 Shrieks, Malanthrope, another unit of Zoanthropes and 3 Neurothropes, witha full unit of Venomthropes.

Edit: I have a great idea to make a plastic Harridian, i just dont want to ATM b.c they are really bad.




Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 16:59:42


Post by: Dynas


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.

Swarmlord is unique - he can't take relics and has a warlord trait he must take. This warlord trait also sucks. To be -1 he has to be next to a malenthrope. This however won't protect you much - you are better off taking overpriced tyrant gaurd.


Yeah i know. I meant malanthrope or venomthrope brood of 4+ models.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 17:14:03


Post by: Amishprn86


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.

Swarmlord is unique - he can't take relics and has a warlord trait he must take. This warlord trait also sucks. To be -1 he has to be next to a malenthrope. This however won't protect you much - you are better off taking overpriced tyrant gaurd.


Not if it is protecting another 800pts of stuff..... You take Venoms/Malan to protect a large amount, a Malanthrope gives you protection and a HQ slot, sure no Powers like Neurothrope, but if you have 1000pts with -1 to hit, that might be much more important.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 18:12:03


Post by: Dynas


 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.

Swarmlord is unique - he can't take relics and has a warlord trait he must take. This warlord trait also sucks. To be -1 he has to be next to a malenthrope. This however won't protect you much - you are better off taking overpriced tyrant gaurd.


Not if it is protecting another 800pts of stuff..... You take Venoms/Malan to protect a large amount, a Malanthrope gives you protection and a HQ slot, sure no Powers like Neurothrope, but if you have 1000pts with -1 to hit, that might be much more important.


I've run both malan and venoms. I have slowly begin to favor the venomthrope because they are cheapre and provide a wider area of coverage. One unit can screen the enitre army if deployed properly.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 20:53:56


Post by: babelfish


I find that the Swarmlord gets one turn of usefulness. With venom/mal support he can normally survive a turn on the board,but not two. I find tyrant guard don't add enough durability to be worth the cost, and they don't impact the game in a meaningful way if Swarmy dies. I would rather use the points on something big and threatening that will draw fire away from Swarmy, like a flyrant.

'thrope wise, I go back and forth on them. IF you have adequate LOS blocking terrain for the full brood, you can generally get 100% coverage for at least the first turn. If not, they tend to evaporate quickly and the character protection on the mal is more important.




Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 21:36:48


Post by: SHUPPET


Amishprn86 wrote:
 Dynas wrote:
Tyrant Guard are over costed. Swarmy can be taken solo with a -1 shroud and good LoS blocking terrain.

NOn tactics question- anyone got any good pics or links of MASSIVE Nid collecions? I'm talking like SM Chapter Level amount of nids. The most I think I have seen are what Matt Has on Miniwargaming.



Well.... I dont have any new pictures, this one is 4-5yrs old and i have Doubled if not Triple my amount, i'm up to 14k points now.

I've added something like 100 gants, 30 goyles, Barb H, Dimachaeron, 2 Stone Crusher (one of each), more Fexes, Tfex, more stealers, 2 more flyers, 2 more Flyrants, a new real Tyrannocyte (Mine is custom and was the size int he 5tf codex) sadly total of 9 Shrieks, Malanthrope, another unit of Zoanthropes and 3 Neurothropes, witha full unit of Venomthropes.

Edit: I have a great idea to make a plastic Harridian, i just dont want to ATM b.c they are really bad.



great collection bro, you've got the makings to build whatever you need just by one or two additions here and there. Keep working on em and finish painting your models before buying new ones! That piece of advice helped me a lot anyway.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 21:47:57


Post by: Amishprn86


Oh, like i said i've added another 6-7k to that pic, i need to take a new picture but i dont want to get out all the models lol.

My problem currently is i have to many armies i play, since i can play 24/7 i tend to play a lot, i play 2-4 games a week, at times even more so.

So my DE, Nids, SOB, and Quins all get equal love, that means painting is slow....


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 22:00:44


Post by: SHUPPET



Yeah matt's collection is even bigger than mine. If this picture is it then he's got 9 Tervigon / Tyrannofex alone, not sure why anybody would need more than 3 of either.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 23:05:31


Post by: Amishprn86


ISnt he the Owner of MWG? Being an owner is a bit of advantage XD lol


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 23:27:27


Post by: barboggo


Sucks because the (tyrant guard) models are dope.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/22 23:28:49


Post by: Amishprn86


barboggo wrote:
Sucks because the (tyrant guard) models are dope.


The new ones are lol, i still have 6 of the old metal ones. They are kinda cute and neat looking too, but nothing like the new ones.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/23 01:06:36


Post by: SHUPPET


the new ones have some nice curves for sure. I think I'm going to use all the armor flairs of the Tyrant guard that I have left over from my two Hive Guard kits, to make a proper royal looking Swarmlord.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/23 15:08:04


Post by: Dynas


 SHUPPET wrote:

Yeah matt's collection is even bigger than mine. If this picture is it then he's got 9 Tervigon / Tyrannofex alone, not sure why anybody would need more than 3 of either.



He bought them before the rule of 3 was a thing. Also, if you play big APOC games you can always throw out that rule.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/23 15:39:07


Post by: Amishprn86


 Dynas wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
Spoiler:

Yeah matt's collection is even bigger than mine. If this picture is it then he's got 9 Tervigon / Tyrannofex alone, not sure why anybody would need more than 3 of either.



He bought them before the rule of 3 was a thing. Also, if you play big APOC games you can always throw out that rule.



Well Ro3 is only for 2k points, at 3k its rule of 4 (1k its Ro2) , its safe to say every +1k is +1 to the rule.

If playing a 10k points game, having 11 of the same datasheet i would assume is enough LOL.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/23 20:38:05


Post by: SHUPPET


 Amishprn86 wrote:
ISnt he the Owner of MWG? Being an owner is a bit of advantage XD lol

yeah that certainly helps lol


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 01:11:08


Post by: JNAProductions


What’s a good way to get started with Nids?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 01:35:02


Post by: SHUPPET


 JNAProductions wrote:
What’s a good way to get started with Nids?


2x Flying Hive Tyrants

10x Termagants
10x Termagants
3x Rippers


That's a nice battalion that you will probably use for most armies you build. From there expand to some Genestealers, Hive Guard, and Dakkafexes, and after that the world is your oyster. Get your foundation, then your core units, then you can move into luxury as you please.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 01:44:54


Post by: JNAProductions


Why Gants?

And what should I give the tyrants?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 01:50:50


Post by: SHUPPET


 JNAProductions wrote:
Why Gants?

And what should I give the tyrants?


Termagants are just a cheap, fearless (under synapse) scoring unit. 4 pt fearless bodies that contribute where they can, almost every list you build will inevitably run a few of them.

Dual Devourers on the Tyrant. The Wings count as rending Claws if you want them to, so it doubles as both popular load outs as one.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 11:45:45


Post by: Traceoftoxin


Magnets. Magnetize any MCs you build so you don't have to go back and destroy them when the game inevitably changes.

(The below is a repost and I think it's still about accurate)

Flyrants, Rippers, Genestealers, Hive Guard are probably our best overall units that can fit into almost any list. I would expect to see at least 2 of these units in any tournament level list.

Hormagaunts, Exocrines, Neurothropes, Malanthrope, termagants, Trygons, Swarmlord, Tyrannofex, Carnifex, Biovores, Mucolid Spores are all very good units, and several from this list will likely appear in most lists. Some are a bit more specialized and are unlikely to appear in certain styles of lists. You can easily build a competitive list using many of these units.

Gargoyles, Dimacheron, Venomthrope, Toxicrene, Pyrovore, Warriors, Old One Eye, Sporocysts, Spore Mines, Zoanthropes, Walking Tyrants, Broodlords, Raveners, Red Terror, Mawloc, Tyrannocyte are all completely usable units. They are not exceptional statistically, and may be overshadowed by other units for their role. However, they may perform some specific function that cannot be fulfilled elsewhere, or there may be specific playstyle builds that revolve around them. Sporocysts, for example, are something I would never recommend to a new player to randomly include, but smart play with a list built around them has a lot of possibilities. Playing at a casual level, units from this list should not leave you feeling as if you're fighting uphill, except in bad matchups.

Tyrant Guard, Haruspex, Lictors, Crone, Harpy, Tervigon, Malceptor, Deathleaper are objectively weak units. They statistically lack durability/damage for their cost, while also failing to provide specialized abilities that cannot be found elsewhere. Luckily for us, even our weakest tier of units are still actually objectively ~decent~, so you can include these units in casual play if you really like them. So long as they're not the majority of your army, you shouldn't feel handicapped. Just don't expect them to do much. Some of these units may be used for gimmicks, but in general, their roles can be filled elsewhere more effectively.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 11:58:02


Post by: Spoletta


 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Magnets. Magnetize any MCs you build so you don't have to go back and destroy them when the game inevitably changes.

(The below is a repost and I think it's still about accurate)

Flyrants, Rippers, Genestealers, Hive Guard are probably our best overall units that can fit into almost any list. I would expect to see at least 2 of these units in any tournament level list.

Hormagaunts, Exocrines, Neurothropes, Malanthrope, termagants, Trygons, Swarmlord, Tyrannofex, Carnifex, Biovores, Mucolid Spores are all very good units, and several from this list will likely appear in most lists. Some are a bit more specialized and are unlikely to appear in certain styles of lists. You can easily build a competitive list using many of these units.

Gargoyles, Dimacheron, Venomthrope, Toxicrene, Pyrovore, Warriors, Old One Eye, Sporocysts, Spore Mines, Zoanthropes, Walking Tyrants, Broodlords, Raveners, Red Terror, Mawloc, Tyrannocyte are all completely usable units. They are not exceptional statistically, and may be overshadowed by other units for their role. However, they may perform some specific function that cannot be fulfilled elsewhere, or there may be specific playstyle builds that revolve around them. Sporocysts, for example, are something I would never recommend to a new player to randomly include, but smart play with a list built around them has a lot of possibilities. Playing at a casual level, units from this list should not leave you feeling as if you're fighting uphill, except in bad matchups.

Tyrant Guard, Haruspex, Lictors, Crone, Harpy, Tervigon, Malceptor, Deathleaper are objectively weak units. They statistically lack durability/damage for their cost, while also failing to provide specialized abilities that cannot be found elsewhere. Luckily for us, even our weakest tier of units are still actually objectively ~decent~, so you can include these units in casual play if you really like them. So long as they're not the majority of your army, you shouldn't feel handicapped. Just don't expect them to do much. Some of these units may be used for gimmicks, but in general, their roles can be filled elsewhere more effectively.


I disagree with some of your rankings (i grade Maleceptors and Lictors much higher for example), but in general this is a good list. Just be sure to put off any purchase of hive guards until CA, they have good chances of being on the chopping board.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 13:15:24


Post by: SHUPPET


If Tyranids, an underperforming tournament army, have their sole source of decent AT nerfed, then GW is more incompetent than I could imagine. There's so much imbalance in the dex, almost the entire melee portion of the Dex is useless next to Stealers. Even with Hive Guard we have serious struggles against Knights etc. I can't imagine HG will be nerfed, but then again I'm an idiot fluff author who thinks Raven Guard was OP so what do I know


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 13:39:04


Post by: Badablack


Rippers are pretty great but you only get them from termagant and genestealer boxes. Luckily those are all decent units so it’s fine.

A box of warriors is decent, mostly because they have every option under the sun on their sprue which is nice for kitting out your tyrants.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 14:46:51


Post by: ChargerIIC


 JNAProductions wrote:
Why Gants?

And what should I give the tyrants?


Termagaunts are cheap and felixble as hell. If you are ambitious, you can even magnetize the arms to go Devilguant against hard targets, spinefists against melee ones and fleshborers for everything else. If not, buy the 5 termangaunt for 10USD packs and get your 20 infantry models for damn cheap.

Can't speak to the Hive Tyrant, although I am fond of double scythe with wings. It's classic, does well on the charge, and doesn't care as much in lower point games if the enemy engages it in melee.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 15:10:53


Post by: Spoletta


 SHUPPET wrote:
If Tyranids, an underperforming tournament army, have their sole source of decent AT nerfed, then GW is more incompetent than I could imagine. There's so much imbalance in the dex, almost the entire melee portion of the Dex is useless next to Stealers. Even with Hive Guard we have serious struggles against Knights etc. I can't imagine HG will be nerfed, but then again I'm an idiot fluff author who thinks Raven Guard was OP so what do I know


I would hardly define Tyranids as "underperforming", they are about at the 20% from the top among factions, right behind soups, mono knights, mono IG and DE. If the knights get reigned in then tyranids are top table material.

At the same time, HG are clearly overperforming in the codex, they are strictly better than many other choices both in faction and out of faction, too versatile against too many targets, including vehicles which are the inbuilt design weakness of nids. I'm not saying that they will get a huge nerf, but i wouldn't be surprised in 4-5 points more on the impaler cannon, or limiting the squads to 3 models.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 15:38:28


Post by: SHUPPET


Spoletta wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
If Tyranids, an underperforming tournament army, have their sole source of decent AT nerfed, then GW is more incompetent than I could imagine. There's so much imbalance in the dex, almost the entire melee portion of the Dex is useless next to Stealers. Even with Hive Guard we have serious struggles against Knights etc. I can't imagine HG will be nerfed, but then again I'm an idiot fluff author who thinks Raven Guard was OP so what do I know


I would hardly define Tyranids as "underperforming", they are about at the 20% from the top among factions, right behind soups, mono knights, mono IG and DE. If the knights get reigned in then tyranids are top table material.

At the same time, HG are clearly overperforming in the codex, they are strictly better than many other choices both in faction and out of faction, too versatile against too many targets, including vehicles which are the inbuilt design weakness of nids. I'm not saying that they will get a huge nerf, but i wouldn't be surprised in 4-5 points more on the impaler cannon, or limiting the squads to 3 models.

Ugh what? To my knowledge, the only placings they made at all lately at big events was pre-GSC nerf, and not even using Hive Guard. You say top 20% of factions, but then list like the majority of the game doing better? I think only Tau and Orks are excluded from that list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which events are you referring to where they have been performing so well?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 15:46:45


Post by: Xenomancers


Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

Nids are absolutely a strong army. They compete in every phase (movement, psychic, shooting, assault) and they are immune to leadership for the most part. Have shoot twice and fight twice stratagems. Some very efficient choices(carnifex, FHT, HG, neuro). What their weakness? Knights. What is a really popular meta choice right now (and probably OP). Knights.

All I know for my purposes - If a friend of mine asks me to bring a light army. That rules out Tyranids/eldar/DE/knights/tau. It means I should play GK or space marines without guilliman.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 15:59:35


Post by: Amishprn86


 Xenomancers wrote:
Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

Nids are absolutely a strong army. They compete in every phase (movement, psychic, shooting, assault) and they are immune to leadership for the most part. Have shoot twice and fight twice stratagems. Some very efficient choices(carnifex, FHT, HG, neuro). What their weakness? Knights. What is a really popular meta choice right now (and probably OP). Knights.

All I know for my purposes - If a friend of mine asks me to bring a light army. That rules out Tyranids/eldar/DE/knights/tau. It means I should play GK or space marines without guilliman.


Light army is in your list, not the army, every codex can bring a very light list..... Even Ynnari

Nids are IMO the BEST light friendly army, b.c you can have threats that are easy to deal with (small units of Genestealers, Hormagants, Warriors, etc..)

You can have Broodlord and Prime HQ's, you dont need to take a power list for "light"

I also think nids are very good, but when talking about ITC, ITC rules dont really work well with nids or certain playstyles.army types at all, i dont really like ITC. The opponent can easily get the secondaries over you, get more kills over you, etc.. unless you take lists to deny those points, and then Nids start to become harder to play.

With no House rules, just GW rules, Ynnari/Imperial soup are just OP AF, but nids still have a chance to do well and win thanks to how easy the missions are and the missions are all that matters, no any of these 24 VP's that only 1 player can get and not the other.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 16:30:59


Post by: Spoletta


 SHUPPET wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
If Tyranids, an underperforming tournament army, have their sole source of decent AT nerfed, then GW is more incompetent than I could imagine. There's so much imbalance in the dex, almost the entire melee portion of the Dex is useless next to Stealers. Even with Hive Guard we have serious struggles against Knights etc. I can't imagine HG will be nerfed, but then again I'm an idiot fluff author who thinks Raven Guard was OP so what do I know


I would hardly define Tyranids as "underperforming", they are about at the 20% from the top among factions, right behind soups, mono knights, mono IG and DE. If the knights get reigned in then tyranids are top table material.

At the same time, HG are clearly overperforming in the codex, they are strictly better than many other choices both in faction and out of faction, too versatile against too many targets, including vehicles which are the inbuilt design weakness of nids. I'm not saying that they will get a huge nerf, but i wouldn't be surprised in 4-5 points more on the impaler cannon, or limiting the squads to 3 models.

Ugh what? To my knowledge, the only placings they made at all lately at big events was pre-GSC nerf, and not even using Hive Guard. You say top 20% of factions, but then list like the majority of the game doing better? I think only Tau and Orks are excluded from that list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which events are you referring to where they have been performing so well?


I listed 3 factions in total...


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/26 16:35:25


Post by: SHUPPET


When you list "soup" as one faction it's kinda disingenuous. That's every Imperium, Aeldari, and Chaos army currently seeing play (and there is multiple from each). Other than Tyranids themselves, what is left after that other than Tau and Orkz? lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Which events are you referring to where they have been performing so well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

They did. Around the time of NOVA. There will be a new one out soon.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RmX6EUqWQDABd43HRV1wze7Bk8X1R8D/view

You have to download it, open in Excel, enable editing, then manually select each tournament to display at once in the information filter under the "Tournament" header.



Nids have 42.81% win rate as a primary faction. The changes to the game have only left them in a worse state since.

They are an underperforming Tournament army, one which that is not even approaching making top tables at significant events, nor have a high win rate. They had ONE placing in the top FIFTY at Nova, and that was number thirty-something. I'm open, in fact I encourage, evidence to disprove this. But acting as though it's a top tournament army based off our "feels" doesn't hold up at this point, and I think if we're going to claim that again we need to attach some sort of evidence.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/27 02:15:54


Post by: JNAProductions


I made a list.

C&C welcome, and sorely needed.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/27 05:22:31


Post by: Spoletta


 SHUPPET wrote:
When you list "soup" as one faction it's kinda disingenuous. That's every Imperium, Aeldari, and Chaos army currently seeing play (and there is multiple from each). Other than Tyranids themselves, what is left after that other than Tau and Orkz? lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Which events are you referring to where they have been performing so well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

They did. Around the time of NOVA. There will be a new one out soon.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RmX6EUqWQDABd43HRV1wze7Bk8X1R8D/view

You have to download it, open in Excel, enable editing, then manually select each tournament to display at once in the information filter under the "Tournament" header.



Nids have 42.81% win rate as a primary faction. The changes to the game have only left them in a worse state since.

They are an underperforming Tournament army, one which that is not even approaching making top tables at significant events, nor have a high win rate. They had ONE placing in the top FIFTY at Nova, and that was number thirty-something. I'm open, in fact I encourage, evidence to disprove this. But acting as though it's a top tournament army based off our "feels" doesn't hold up at this point, and I think if we're going to claim that again we need to attach some sort of evidence.


If you were to run that analysis now you would discover that no monodex is doing well. Sure, soup is better than everything we know it, but as a faction nids are just below the top ones.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/27 05:36:49


Post by: SHUPPET


Spoletta wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
When you list "soup" as one faction it's kinda disingenuous. That's every Imperium, Aeldari, and Chaos army currently seeing play (and there is multiple from each). Other than Tyranids themselves, what is left after that other than Tau and Orkz? lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Which events are you referring to where they have been performing so well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

They did. Around the time of NOVA. There will be a new one out soon.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RmX6EUqWQDABd43HRV1wze7Bk8X1R8D/view

You have to download it, open in Excel, enable editing, then manually select each tournament to display at once in the information filter under the "Tournament" header.



Nids have 42.81% win rate as a primary faction. The changes to the game have only left them in a worse state since.

They are an underperforming Tournament army, one which that is not even approaching making top tables at significant events, nor have a high win rate. They had ONE placing in the top FIFTY at Nova, and that was number thirty-something. I'm open, in fact I encourage, evidence to disprove this. But acting as though it's a top tournament army based off our "feels" doesn't hold up at this point, and I think if we're going to claim that again we need to attach some sort of evidence.


If you were to run that analysis now you would discover that no monodex is doing well. Sure, soup is better than everything we know it, but as a faction nids are just below the top ones.


This. Game. Isn't. Mono. Dex. Restricted.


If a faction is underperforming in a setting where allies are allowed, then it's underperforming in the tournament scene.

On top of that, you are wrong. Tau has a 50% win rate. Hell you listed multiple soup ingredients that are outperforming Nids even solo.





There's no way you can spin this. Tyranids are under-performing in the tournament scene. That seems pretty apparent. 42% winrate is right next to Necrons.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 06:52:24


Post by: Spoletta


And yet in this weekend alone the nids had a second place at the Socal and first place at a 67 players event. This doesn't mean that they are the top of the meta, but is hardly the behaviour of an UP faction.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 07:05:12


Post by: Amishprn86


Nice to hear, i'll look at those list for fun, but really it doesnt matter now till CA


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 07:12:38


Post by: SHUPPET


Spoletta wrote:
And yet in this weekend alone the nids had a second place at the Socal and first place at a 67 players event. This doesn't mean that they are the top of the meta, but is hardly the behaviour of an UP faction.

That event hadn't taken place when I said the army was underperforming in the tournament scene, so it's difficult to take something into account when it literally hasn't happened yet.
Regardless, there's outliers for everything. A single second place at an event doesn't even out the win rate. I think someone got a 3rd place finish with Necrons at one of the events too. How would you describe Crons current performance in tournaments? Because both those armies have a similar win rate at tournament and apparently similar amounts of top table finishes too


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 09:21:56


Post by: Astmeister


So what would it require to make Nids more viable again? Just point drops?
And how would you make the non-viable units better? For fun I just thought about Tyrant Guard and it is not easy to make them more usefull. Lowering the points cost is not always a good idea with T5 3W 3+ models.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 13:32:25


Post by: rollawaythestone


Kraken Tyranids won second at the SoCal Open this weekend. Anyone have the list?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 13:40:02


Post by: Spoletta


 SHUPPET wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
And yet in this weekend alone the nids had a second place at the Socal and first place at a 67 players event. This doesn't mean that they are the top of the meta, but is hardly the behaviour of an UP faction.

That event hadn't taken place when I said the army was underperforming in the tournament scene, so it's difficult to take something into account when it literally hasn't happened yet.
Regardless, there's outliers for everything. A single second place at an event doesn't even out the win rate. I think someone got a 3rd place finish with Necrons at one of the events too. How would you describe Crons current performance in tournaments? Because both those armies have a similar win rate at tournament and apparently similar amounts of top table finishes too


Yeah that's a common problem with 8th. Any data you gather is going to be "old" quite fast. The meta moves quickly.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 14:02:01


Post by: Xenomancers


 Astmeister wrote:
So what would it require to make Nids more viable again? Just point drops?
And how would you make the non-viable units better? For fun I just thought about Tyrant Guard and it is not easy to make them more usefull. Lowering the points cost is not always a good idea with T5 3W 3+ models.

Nid troops are kind of middling. If I was only allowed to fix 3 units in the codex. It would be Hormies Termies and Warriors.
Termies - Devs should be a 3 point upgrade - not 4. They should have a 5+ save too. Flesh bore upped to 18" range.
Hormies - 5+ save.
Warriors - 3+ save with 3 point devs. Reduce costs of VC to 15.

These changes would be big.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 SHUPPET wrote:
When you list "soup" as one faction it's kinda disingenuous. That's every Imperium, Aeldari, and Chaos army currently seeing play (and there is multiple from each). Other than Tyranids themselves, what is left after that other than Tau and Orkz? lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Which events are you referring to where they have been performing so well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

They did. Around the time of NOVA. There will be a new one out soon.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RmX6EUqWQDABd43HRV1wze7Bk8X1R8D/view

You have to download it, open in Excel, enable editing, then manually select each tournament to display at once in the information filter under the "Tournament" header.



Nids have 42.81% win rate as a primary faction. The changes to the game have only left them in a worse state since.

They are an underperforming Tournament army, one which that is not even approaching making top tables at significant events, nor have a high win rate. They had ONE placing in the top FIFTY at Nova, and that was number thirty-something. I'm open, in fact I encourage, evidence to disprove this. But acting as though it's a top tournament army based off our "feels" doesn't hold up at this point, and I think if we're going to claim that again we need to attach some sort of evidence.

That is cool - thanks for that - but it's from august. The community needs something up to date.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 14:15:44


Post by: SHUPPET


 Xenomancers wrote:

That is cool - thanks for that - but it's from august. The community needs something up to date.


https://www.40kstats.com/


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 14:38:31


Post by: Xenomancers


 SHUPPET wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

That is cool - thanks for that - but it's from august. The community needs something up to date.


https://www.40kstats.com/

This is an awesome tool - Thank you so much for linking this to me.




Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 17:47:09


Post by: Amishprn86


The list was

Battalion: Kraken
Swarmlord
3 Tyrant guard
Flyrant: MRC, Devs
Malanthrope
15 Genestealers, ST, 3 Maws
10 Hgants
10 Tgants
6 Hive Guard

Battalion: Kronos
Neuothrope
Neurothrope
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 Rippers

Supreme Command, GSC
Magnus
Magnus
Primus
15 Purestrain Genestealers, ST



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I personally would have put the Hive Guard in the Kronos detachment, it seems he had a reason not to.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 17:55:52


Post by: rollawaythestone


Most likely for Synapse and -1 to hit protection from the Malanthrope, which probably stays back with the backfield but is needed in the Kraken portion to shield Swarmlord and the Flyrant.

Interesting choice on the Tyrant Guard. I've seen them disparaged a bit here. Personally, I think they are useful if you are running Swarmlord and a Flyrant or two. Coupled with a Malanthrope, you can feel a bit more confident that you won't just be taken off the starting line on the first turn.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 18:08:28


Post by: Amishprn86


 rollawaythestone wrote:
Most likely for Synapse and -1 to hit protection from the Malanthrope, which probably stays back with the backfield but is needed in the Kraken portion to shield Swarmlord and the Flyrant.

Interesting choice on the Tyrant Guard. I've seen them disparaged a bit here. Personally, I think they are useful if you are running Swarmlord and a Flyrant or two. Coupled with a Malanthrope, you can feel a bit more confident that you won't just be taken off the starting line on the first turn.


Yeah, i can see wanting the -1 to hit as its very good.

I would think the Tyrant guard are only there b.c of the Castellan knight, so its not 1 round off the table from it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 18:42:44


Post by: Badablack


I can also see it bleeding away some enemy firepower. Do they shoot excessive amounts into the protected tyrant guard to get at the important stuff? Or go for the ITC points shooting at otherwise useless hormagaunts? It seems like a list made for ITC in general.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 19:38:22


Post by: Xenomancers


 Badablack wrote:
I can also see it bleeding away some enemy firepower. Do they shoot excessive amounts into the protected tyrant guard to get at the important stuff? Or go for the ITC points shooting at otherwise useless hormagaunts? It seems like a list made for ITC in general.

A single -1 to hit is nothing compared to a lot of the defensive buffs out there. They have no invun save. Catalyst is the only thing that can protect them more. Castellan still 1 shots the combo. With a bit of luck. cawls wrath on the gaurd volcano lance and everything else on swarmy. It's safe to say this guy did not face or lost to the first place catachan and castellan list.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 20:26:24


Post by: Amishprn86


While i dont agree with you, but it is true he fought against 3 Ynnari/CWE type lists, 1 CSM, and 2 SM/IG lists.

You can view it all on BCP if you paid for the app


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 21:02:01


Post by: Astmeister


I still find it encouraging that he made TG work in a tournament, while we just said 2 pages ago that they are garbage.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/29 23:46:34


Post by: weaver9


I might move my hive guard to be in my malanthrope detachment... seems like a solid protection for them. Losing out on rerolling 1's is pretty harsh though.

A little surprised to see GSC stealers. Much more expensive than their cousins. Cult ambush arguably is less reliable than kraken stealers charging up.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 00:56:32


Post by: SHUPPET


There's a questionable decision on every second line of that list.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 01:41:35


Post by: Amishprn86


weaver9 wrote:
I might move my hive guard to be in my malanthrope detachment... seems like a solid protection for them. Losing out on rerolling 1's is pretty harsh though.

A little surprised to see GSC stealers. Much more expensive than their cousins. Cult ambush arguably is less reliable than kraken stealers charging up.


Its more about off table protection, they are guaranteed to not be shot, and on turn 2 they can DS/Charge with a ok chance in doing so, you re-roll the table, but you also give the PSGS +1 to hit. Its still risky sure, but it might be worth the risk.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 04:12:02


Post by: luke1705


Out of the last ~ 15 competitive games I’ve played with tyranids, I can say without exception that every single game I lost except 1 was the result of my genestealers being alpha struck off the board. GSC becoming a real codex means very very good things for tyranids competitively. Especially because hive tyrants/neurothropes/hive guard/rippers are still a thing, so you still have a lot of ways to supplement the weaknesses of GSC.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 04:15:39


Post by: SHUPPET


I think Purestrains are really good. Neophytes are really good too with the Primus buff and Might, and are so much cheaper too.

If any of the GSC leaks are true they look like it's gonna be a good dex, VERY AGGRESSIVE and lots of interaction, which is awesome


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 05:20:57


Post by: weaver9


So if I'm not mistaken best way to deliver purestrains is with a primus, using the stratagem, and hope for a 6. Are you allowed to advance with the free move?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 09:20:03


Post by: Mellon


weaver9 wrote:
So if I'm not mistaken best way to deliver purestrains is with a primus, using the stratagem, and hope for a 6. Are you allowed to advance with the free move?


Both 5 and 6 on the cult ambush table is usually good enough to have a decent chance on making one charge. The 6 obviously makes it easier to pull off complex mulitcharges, wrappings etc.

No, I believe you can't advance with the free move.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 10:43:07


Post by: Sneggy


Mellon wrote:
weaver9 wrote:
So if I'm not mistaken best way to deliver purestrains is with a primus, using the stratagem, and hope for a 6. Are you allowed to advance with the free move?


Both 5 and 6 on the cult ambush table is usually good enough to have a decent chance on making one charge. The 6 obviously makes it easier to pull off complex mulitcharges, wrappings etc.

No, I believe you can't advance with the free move.


A 6 on the cult ambush table allows the unit to move normally. Moving normally includes being allowed to advance.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/30 16:17:32


Post by: Dynas


 Xenomancers wrote:
Man I wish the wise ITC orginization at FLG could do some detailed analysis on the WR of factions. It is quite literally impossible to get a clear picture. Then again - they are playing a house ruled game and the results matter even less in terms of balance.

Nids are absolutely a strong army. They compete in every phase (movement, psychic, shooting, assault) and they are immune to leadership for the most part. Have shoot twice and fight twice stratagems. Some very efficient choices(carnifex, FHT, HG, neuro). What their weakness? Knights. What is a really popular meta choice right now (and probably OP). Knights.

All I know for my purposes - If a friend of mine asks me to bring a light army. That rules out Tyranids/eldar/DE/knights/tau. It means I should play GK or space marines without guilliman.



The best I have seen is this channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-XrhPFFPY


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/31 18:00:44


Post by: Xenomancers


 SHUPPET wrote:
There's a questionable decision on every second line of that list.

Yeah - he might have had reasons that aren't clear to us but we can reasonably say this isn't the way you would construct this list to be as efficient as possible. Not without knowing further details about the event.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/10/31 22:44:05


Post by: lajollagrad


Sneggy wrote:
Mellon wrote:
weaver9 wrote:
So if I'm not mistaken best way to deliver purestrains is with a primus, using the stratagem, and hope for a 6. Are you allowed to advance with the free move?


Both 5 and 6 on the cult ambush table is usually good enough to have a decent chance on making one charge. The 6 obviously makes it easier to pull off complex mulitcharges, wrappings etc.

No, I believe you can't advance with the free move.


A 6 on the cult ambush table allows the unit to move normally. Moving normally includes being allowed to advance.


100% the reason I took a unit of Purestrain was so that a unit did not get shot off the board first turn. Using the strategem rolling for a 5/6 was all I was looking for. Buffing the unit with Might Beyond to give the unit 70 attacks hitting on twos at Strength 5 at -1 AP is gnarly no matter what way you look at it. Other magus casts Mass Hypnosis on the unit that has the most overwatch to make sure they don't shoot.


Xenomancers wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
There's a questionable decision on every second line of that list.

Yeah - he might have had reasons that aren't clear to us but we can reasonably say this isn't the way you would construct this list to be as efficient as possible. Not without knowing further details about the event.



There is absolutely no need to put them in a Kronos detachment if you have a Malanthrope. You play aggressively with the Malanthrope, charge a screen with him and genestealers and kill the unit. As long as the Malanthrope is within an inch of a unit that dies, all of the Hive fleet that the Malanthrope is a part of gets to reroll 1's to hit (combat and shooting) for the rest of the game. As the Hive Guard are in that detachment, they get to reroll 1's to hit if you play the Malanthrope appropriately.

This gets particularly dirty when you charge the malanthrope into a screen with the stealers, who should be announcing a charge into two units, killings one, overrunning and then swinging on another. (for a total of 4 cp). By the time the stealers are swinging on their second unit, they are hitting on 3's, rerolling 1's all without having to use their scything talons.

So it's all about playing the Malanthrope right.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 00:12:22


Post by: weaver9


Thanks so much for sharing lajollagrad. Really great insight. What turn do you find your malanthrope is able to get into combat? Who do you find your opponent is shooting at first? How do they react to your plays?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 00:15:52


Post by: SHUPPET


I mean, EVEN IF you pull off Malanthrope buff every single game, WITHOUT the Malanthrope dying from that point onward, at best you're getting re-rolls from turn 2 onward, the same re-rolls that you'd have from turn 1 onward with Kronos, as you are not throwing Hive Guard into assault. It also means you have to play your HG aggressively to keep up with either Flyrant / Swarmlord / Malanthrope for Synapse, when the unit is probably the best one we have for holding a defensive position with LoS+Cover-ignoring guns with some of the longest range we have available, but one of the few Heavy weaponry the dex has to to punish them if you don't. "There is absolutely no need to put them in a Kronos detachment" seems like the overstatement of the year. Were you playing them with Shockcannons or something?





Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 10:04:03


Post by: luke1705


The biggest reason I found as to why putting hive guard in Kronos is a trap is because you’re going to have a detachment of Kraken if you’re playing competitively that has most of your infantry that isn’t rippers. Those infantry are going to need to be protected, whether by venomthropes (my preference) or a Malanthrope.

So putting the hive guard in a different hive fleet means that they do not get that protection, and you are likely going to have a turn or two (at least) where they can get shot at. Maybe you’re moving them into a advantageous position behind terrain on turn 1 and your opponent goes first, for example. A good opponent will understand that they need to be shot at and that he likely has a limited window before they run out of LOS into their firing position.

I have not found that I am consistently able to get the malanthrope buff, plus venomthropes are just cheaper (and nearly as un-targetable because some people feel like chewing through the 9 wounds isn’t better than just living with the -1 to hit). For what it’s worth, in the short term they’re correct. Over the course of the game, not so much. The veonomthropes also have a much larger AOE.

TLDR I agree that the costs of putting hive guard in a Kronos detachment outweigh the benefits.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 13:25:24


Post by: rollawaythestone


So... Overrun says explicitly you can't bring yourself within 1" of an enemy model. How can you use Overrun to tag additional targets in combat?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 14:36:13


Post by: Xenomancers


 luke1705 wrote:
The biggest reason I found as to why putting hive guard in Kronos is a trap is because you’re going to have a detachment of Kraken if you’re playing competitively that has most of your infantry that isn’t rippers. Those infantry are going to need to be protected, whether by venomthropes (my preference) or a Malanthrope.

So putting the hive guard in a different hive fleet means that they do not get that protection, and you are likely going to have a turn or two (at least) where they can get shot at. Maybe you’re moving them into a advantageous position behind terrain on turn 1 and your opponent goes first, for example. A good opponent will understand that they need to be shot at and that he likely has a limited window before they run out of LOS into their firing position.

I have not found that I am consistently able to get the malanthrope buff, plus venomthropes are just cheaper (and nearly as un-targetable because some people feel like chewing through the 9 wounds isn’t better than just living with the -1 to hit). For what it’s worth, in the short term they’re correct. Over the course of the game, not so much. The veonomthropes also have a much larger AOE.

TLDR I agree that the costs of putting hive guard in a Kronos detachment outweigh the benefits.

Nah - willingly shooting at -1 to hit targets instead of just killing the venomthropes is the worst thing you can do. Venomthropes die EASY AF. Malenthrope at least is untargetable but - it's slow and has crappy range on it's buff. In most games your HG don't need -1 to hit. Outside of LOS is where they should be. The guys that need it are tyrants and swarmy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lajollagrad wrote:
Sneggy wrote:
Mellon wrote:
weaver9 wrote:
So if I'm not mistaken best way to deliver purestrains is with a primus, using the stratagem, and hope for a 6. Are you allowed to advance with the free move?


Both 5 and 6 on the cult ambush table is usually good enough to have a decent chance on making one charge. The 6 obviously makes it easier to pull off complex mulitcharges, wrappings etc.

No, I believe you can't advance with the free move.


A 6 on the cult ambush table allows the unit to move normally. Moving normally includes being allowed to advance.


100% the reason I took a unit of Purestrain was so that a unit did not get shot off the board first turn. Using the strategem rolling for a 5/6 was all I was looking for. Buffing the unit with Might Beyond to give the unit 70 attacks hitting on twos at Strength 5 at -1 AP is gnarly no matter what way you look at it. Other magus casts Mass Hypnosis on the unit that has the most overwatch to make sure they don't shoot.


Xenomancers wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
There's a questionable decision on every second line of that list.

Yeah - he might have had reasons that aren't clear to us but we can reasonably say this isn't the way you would construct this list to be as efficient as possible. Not without knowing further details about the event.



There is absolutely no need to put them in a Kronos detachment if you have a Malanthrope. You play aggressively with the Malanthrope, charge a screen with him and genestealers and kill the unit. As long as the Malanthrope is within an inch of a unit that dies, all of the Hive fleet that the Malanthrope is a part of gets to reroll 1's to hit (combat and shooting) for the rest of the game. As the Hive Guard are in that detachment, they get to reroll 1's to hit if you play the Malanthrope appropriately.

This gets particularly dirty when you charge the malanthrope into a screen with the stealers, who should be announcing a charge into two units, killings one, overrunning and then swinging on another. (for a total of 4 cp). By the time the stealers are swinging on their second unit, they are hitting on 3's, rerolling 1's all without having to use their scything talons.

So it's all about playing the Malanthrope right.

Well obviously it worked for ya but what you are describing is hard for me to believe.

Weve got 5" move on the malan. You can opportunistic advance him and you are gonna average 5" on your advance. So we have a 15" move turn 1. Assuming the opponent is very dumb and deployed his army as close as possible to you as he could. You'd be looking at a pretty easy charge with malan. Or you could easily get him in there a number of other ways with onslaught and an advance or the swarmlord ability - but you pretty much never want to do that because it's much more preferable to use the swarm lord ability on GS or Swarmy himself. So I am assuming a onslaught was the primary method of malan delivery. Realistically as kraken this should be turn 2 charge every game for malan.

Malanthrope buff going off even if you kill a unit isn't automatic though ESP if the opponent knows Malan has to be within 1" of the final model dying - considering they have control of what order units are dying in. Admitably - most people probably aren't looking for this. So I will give you that you are getting turn 3 reroll 1's for your kraken detachment. Of which by turn 3 - advancing HG are dead....I really don't see any situation in which they wouldn't be.

(3+ Reroll 1's) 78% chance to hit vs
(4+ no rerolls) 50% chance to hit

Were talking about 48 shots over the first 2 turns.
37.44 hits vs 24 hits....seriously...there is no reason not to run them as kronos, even in this army.











Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 17:27:34


Post by: Arson Fire


 rollawaythestone wrote:
So... Overrun says explicitly you can't bring yourself within 1" of an enemy model. How can you use Overrun to tag additional targets in combat?

By combining it with Adrenaline Surge to fight again, using the pile in + consolidate moves to tag the additional units. On the turn a unit charges, it may be selected to fight even if it's outside of 1" of any enemy units, so it's valid to use Adrenaline Surge after an Overrun.
It's CP intensive, but it works.

EDIT: Just to make things clear. No attacks can be allocated to a unit you did not include in your charge. The purpose of this is merely to lock up shooting units in combat, to prevent them from being able to shoot you next turn.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 18:59:08


Post by: Nurglitch


I thought that was only against units you charged in your own turn, or any units in your opponent's turn.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 19:01:18


Post by: luke1705


Not sure why anyone would assume that the Hive Guard are hitting on 4's. If anything, I would assume that for a turn during the game, the hive guard would need to move (necessitating the onslaught power) which means that they won't benefit from the Kronos adaption. If every game you have a piece of perfect LOS-blocking terrain in your deployment zone that gives your hive guard all the reach you need for the entire game....congrats that must be nice.

Typically, I move my hive guard once or twice to get them into optimal hidden firing position in a decently central location or to get them in range of a specific unit that I need them to shoot at. 36" is great range, especially for ignoring LOS, but I can't pretend that they never move over the course of a game.

So yeah kronos certainly increases your accuracy, netting you 5 extra hits over the two turns of double firing (if none die, otherwise it will be less) but again I personally just haven't found that they can always hide out of LOS, so I need the venomthropes (or malanthrope).

To your point about Swarmy and the HT needing that coverage also, I totally agree. They do, which is another reason I prefer the venomthropes over the Malanthrope. You can keep covering multiple units for much longer with the venomthropes, especially once the hive guard have moved into a suitably un-targetable position.

To your point about decidedly targeting the venomthropes first, you're correct that this is usually the right play on turn 1 if they can. Hiding 3 venomthropes out of LOS is a lot easier than I thought it would be and their aura doesn't require LOS, so you can actually make them untargetable if you get moderately lucky with terrain. Or just them deploy REALLY far back if you can. The problem with saying "always shoot the venomthropes first" is that 40k is a game of breaking points. It's entirely possible that shooting those extra 9 wounds means that your lines crash just hard enough to break into that crucial shooting unit, or just enough genestealers live to keep some unit locked in combat, etc.

TLDR: saying it's always the best idea mathematically to shoot the venomthropes early is true (if you can do so effectively early enough) but saying that tactically that is always the best play is not correct IMO. 40k is more than mathhammer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nurglitch wrote:
I thought that was only against units you charged in your own turn, or any units in your opponent's turn.


It is, so if you want to hurt that secondary unit, you need to have been within 12" of at least 1 model for your initial charge, declared it as the target of your charge, and given it the opportunity to overwatch. But being able to kill/engage/tie up whatever is behind the screen on the first turn is often very much worthwhile. And if all you're trying to do is tie up the unit, then you don't need to have been within 12", as just touching them will ensure that your opponent can't fall back (and that you can't accidentally kill models so that they can fall back after morale phase deaths).

It's ironic that I find myself using it less than I mean to, but it's almost an every game stratagem IMO unless with the initial charge you already can be tied up and prevent the opponent's fall back move.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 19:25:52


Post by: Xenomancers


36" range is usually enough for me to deploy them and shoot all game without moving. It might not always be the prefered target - but that is fine - If they have to move to get a target because they blew up the target I had them set on (these are good problems to have).

That's kind of the way I view venoms too - they are alpha strike protect but after that they are just a waste of points - they die too easy compared to what they costs.

This is why I like carnifex - natural -1 to hit and very cost efficient even still.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 20:20:53


Post by: Dynas


 lajollagrad wrote:
Sneggy wrote:
Mellon wrote:
weaver9 wrote:
So if I'm not mistaken best way to deliver purestrains is with a primus, using the stratagem, and hope for a 6. Are you allowed to advance with the free move?


Both 5 and 6 on the cult ambush table is usually good enough to have a decent chance on making one charge. The 6 obviously makes it easier to pull off complex mulitcharges, wrappings etc.

No, I believe you can't advance with the free move.


A 6 on the cult ambush table allows the unit to move normally. Moving normally includes being allowed to advance.


100% the reason I took a unit of Purestrain was so that a unit did not get shot off the board first turn. Using the strategem rolling for a 5/6 was all I was looking for. Buffing the unit with Might Beyond to give the unit 70 attacks hitting on twos at Strength 5 at -1 AP is gnarly no matter what way you look at it. Other magus casts Mass Hypnosis on the unit that has the most overwatch to make sure they don't shoot.


Xenomancers wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
There's a questionable decision on every second line of that list.

Yeah - he might have had reasons that aren't clear to us but we can reasonably say this isn't the way you would construct this list to be as efficient as possible. Not without knowing further details about the event.



There is absolutely no need to put them in a Kronos detachment if you have a Malanthrope. You play aggressively with the Malanthrope, charge a screen with him and genestealers and kill the unit. As long as the Malanthrope is within an inch of a unit that dies, all of the Hive fleet that the Malanthrope is a part of gets to reroll 1's to hit (combat and shooting) for the rest of the game. As the Hive Guard are in that detachment, they get to reroll 1's to hit if you play the Malanthrope appropriately.

This gets particularly dirty when you charge the malanthrope into a screen with the stealers, who should be announcing a charge into two units, killings one, overrunning and then swinging on another. (for a total of 4 cp). By the time the stealers are swinging on their second unit, they are hitting on 3's, rerolling 1's all without having to use their scything talons.

So it's all about playing the Malanthrope right.


How are you getting the malanthrope to keep up. I run kraken genestealers for T1 charge so thats 20" move and advance then charge, or 40" if I have to use Swarmy Hive commander ability. Even if you burn Metabolic overdrive on the malanthrope and move and advance him you are looking at 11" if your lucky, likey 10+ then 10", then you are gambling on the charge. If its anything other than dawn of war, then the enemy is likely not 24" away and you are not going to get him in first turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 luke1705 wrote:
The biggest reason I found as to why putting hive guard in Kronos is a trap is because you’re going to have a detachment of Kraken if you’re playing competitively that has most of your infantry that isn’t rippers. Those infantry are going to need to be protected, whether by venomthropes (my preference) or a Malanthrope.

So putting the hive guard in a different hive fleet means that they do not get that protection, and you are likely going to have a turn or two (at least) where they can get shot at. Maybe you’re moving them into a advantageous position behind terrain on turn 1 and your opponent goes first, for example. A good opponent will understand that they need to be shot at and that he likely has a limited window before they run out of LOS into their firing position.

I have not found that I am consistently able to get the malanthrope buff, plus venomthropes are just cheaper (and nearly as un-targetable because some people feel like chewing through the 9 wounds isn’t better than just living with the -1 to hit). For what it’s worth, in the short term they’re correct. Over the course of the game, not so much. The veonomthropes also have a much larger AOE.

TLDR I agree that the costs of putting hive guard in a Kronos detachment outweigh the benefits.


Agree with all this. I have been moving toward the Venomthropes because of cost and larger AOE. I think in my last 2 5 game tourneys I only ever got hte malanthrope buff once, and it wasn't until like T4.


As far as Hive Guard deployment, ITC has 2 LOS blcoking terrain in middle and ruins on 1st floor are blocking LOS. I usually put them in the ruin on the first floor, sometime I have to move them or deploy them in the middle behind the LoS terrain to get range when you play diagnoly, but then you got to bubble wrap with termies or something. Plenty of times I don't move them all game and get full kronos benefits.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 20:36:09


Post by: SHUPPET


 luke1705 wrote:
The biggest reason I found as to why putting hive guard in Kronos is a trap is because you’re going to have a detachment of Kraken if you’re playing competitively that has most of your infantry that isn’t rippers. Those infantry are going to need to be protected, whether by venomthropes (my preference) or a Malanthrope.

So putting the hive guard in a different hive fleet means that they do not get that protection, and you are likely going to have a turn or two (at least) where they can get shot at. Maybe you’re moving them into a advantageous position behind terrain on turn 1 and your opponent goes first, for example. A good opponent will understand that they need to be shot at and that he likely has a limited window before they run out of LOS into their firing position.

I have not found that I am consistently able to get the malanthrope buff, plus venomthropes are just cheaper (and nearly as un-targetable because some people feel like chewing through the 9 wounds isn’t better than just living with the -1 to hit). For what it’s worth, in the short term they’re correct. Over the course of the game, not so much. The veonomthropes also have a much larger AOE.

TLDR I agree that the costs of putting hive guard in a Kronos detachment outweigh the benefits.

You're right, and FWIW I run mine Kraken, I don't even have a Kronos detachment though. I was just responding to the statement that "there's no real reason at all not to make them Kronos" or whatever it was, because that's clearly a bit of an exaggeration I think. Kronos is great for HG.

Xenomancers wrote:
Weve got 5" move on the malan. You can opportunistic advance him and you are gonna average 5" on your advance. So we have a 15" move turn 1. Assuming the opponent is very dumb and deployed his army as close as possible to you as he could. You'd be looking at a pretty easy charge with malan. Or you could easily get him in there a number of other ways with onslaught and an advance or the swarmlord ability - but you pretty much never want to do that because it's much more preferable to use the swarm lord ability on GS or Swarmy himself. So I am assuming a onslaught was the primary method of malan delivery. Realistically as kraken this should be turn 2 charge every game for malan.

Just want to point out, you don't get to Opportunistic Advance with Malanthrope, it has Fly. You can use Metabolic Overdrive to move and run twice, and with Kraken run speed, thats about 20-22", but it cannot be combined with Onslaught or Swarmy or anything to get that charge in after. I play my Malanthrope like this too, but I don't hinge anything on it doing so. If it makes it into a nice assault with Stealers then good, but I just use Metabolic Overdrive to let it keep up with my Krakkafexes for the most part


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/01 21:36:31


Post by: Xenomancers


 SHUPPET wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
The biggest reason I found as to why putting hive guard in Kronos is a trap is because you’re going to have a detachment of Kraken if you’re playing competitively that has most of your infantry that isn’t rippers. Those infantry are going to need to be protected, whether by venomthropes (my preference) or a Malanthrope.

So putting the hive guard in a different hive fleet means that they do not get that protection, and you are likely going to have a turn or two (at least) where they can get shot at. Maybe you’re moving them into a advantageous position behind terrain on turn 1 and your opponent goes first, for example. A good opponent will understand that they need to be shot at and that he likely has a limited window before they run out of LOS into their firing position.

I have not found that I am consistently able to get the malanthrope buff, plus venomthropes are just cheaper (and nearly as un-targetable because some people feel like chewing through the 9 wounds isn’t better than just living with the -1 to hit). For what it’s worth, in the short term they’re correct. Over the course of the game, not so much. The veonomthropes also have a much larger AOE.

TLDR I agree that the costs of putting hive guard in a Kronos detachment outweigh the benefits.

You're right, and FWIW I run mine Kraken, I don't even have a Kronos detachment though. I was just responding to the statement that "there's no real reason at all not to make them Kronos" or whatever it was, because that's clearly a bit of an exaggeration I think. Kronos is great for HG.

Xenomancers wrote:
Weve got 5" move on the malan. You can opportunistic advance him and you are gonna average 5" on your advance. So we have a 15" move turn 1. Assuming the opponent is very dumb and deployed his army as close as possible to you as he could. You'd be looking at a pretty easy charge with malan. Or you could easily get him in there a number of other ways with onslaught and an advance or the swarmlord ability - but you pretty much never want to do that because it's much more preferable to use the swarm lord ability on GS or Swarmy himself. So I am assuming a onslaught was the primary method of malan delivery. Realistically as kraken this should be turn 2 charge every game for malan.

Just want to point out, you don't get to Opportunistic Advance with Malanthrope, it has Fly. You can use Metabolic Overdrive to move and run twice, and with Kraken run speed, thats about 20-22", but it cannot be combined with Onslaught or Swarmy or anything to get that charge in after. I play my Malanthrope like this too, but I don't hinge anything on it doing so. If it makes it into a nice assault with Stealers then good, but I just use Metabolic Overdrive to let it keep up with my Krakkafexes for the most part

You are correct - so all the tools are there. You can Opportunistic advance a steeler unit then. No way to really get that reroll ones ability till turn 3.

Plus yeah - I don't fool around with multiple hive fleets ether - it's just if you have a kronos detachment already...it's kinda like...why nots the HG in kronos? I play Levi so I need Synapse coverage everywhere.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 02:39:53


Post by: Badablack


What are peoples’ thoughts on sky slasher swarms? The usual 3 Mucolid Spores to fill Brigade FA slots is getting old, and they seem like they have potential in a Leviathan list for popping War on All Fronts and just being a nuisance. They’re the same cost as regular rippers but lose objective secured and deepstrike. If I just want to eat bullets for my characters and tie up vehicles they seem pretty decent.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 06:18:15


Post by: -Sentinel-


Arson Fire wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
So... Overrun says explicitly you can't bring yourself within 1" of an enemy model. How can you use Overrun to tag additional targets in combat?

By combining it with Adrenaline Surge to fight again, using the pile in + consolidate moves to tag the additional units. On the turn a unit charges, it may be selected to fight even if it's outside of 1" of any enemy units, so it's valid to use Adrenaline Surge after an Overrun.
It's CP intensive, but it works.
Keep in mind that by using that combination of stratagems you still cannot declare attacks against units you havent declared as a charge targets. That limits its effectiveness.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 06:28:05


Post by: Arson Fire


Yes, I should have mentioned that to make things clear. No allocating attacks to a unit you didn't include in your charge. However it's still a situationally useful trick to tag distant units in order to prevent them shooting next turn.

For instance fighting through a screening unit, then jumping forwards to lock up a battery of basilisks that your opponent thought were far enough behind the screen that they couldn't be piled into.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 12:51:04


Post by: Spreelock


Hey guys, i'm looking for an advice. What are the most efficient ways to play Leviathan and Kraken? I have Behemoth and Hydra tyranids myself, but i'm looking forward to build more. After watching the whole orktober orks-stuff, I decided NOT to jump into battlewagon and turned my intrests back to nids..


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 13:15:34


Post by: tneva82


-Sentinel- wrote:
Arson Fire wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
So... Overrun says explicitly you can't bring yourself within 1" of an enemy model. How can you use Overrun to tag additional targets in combat?

By combining it with Adrenaline Surge to fight again, using the pile in + consolidate moves to tag the additional units. On the turn a unit charges, it may be selected to fight even if it's outside of 1" of any enemy units, so it's valid to use Adrenaline Surge after an Overrun.
It's CP intensive, but it works.
Keep in mind that by using that combination of stratagems you still cannot declare attacks against units you havent declared as a charge targets. That limits its effectiveness.


Wouldn't allocating attacks kind of defeat point of it anyway? You attack, likely kill models, opponent obviously removes models trapped and thus can fall back leaving your squad out in the open ready to be blasted to bits.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 13:57:30


Post by: Zimko


Another consideration with the Malanthrope's buff... a unit has to die within 1". Due to wound allocation being the way it is, it's very easy for an opponent to remove the models within 1" first. The same thing happens to Ynarri. If not every model in a unit is within 7", your opponent can just remove all the models within 7" first. It doesn't matter if the entire unit dies from a single unit's shooting.

So even if you manage to get Malanthrope into melee with a screen of 10 dudes while a unit of Genestealers is also in melee... they can still prevent you from getting the buff even after the genestealers completely wipe out the unit in a single fight phase. Because all they have to do is remove the closest models to the Malanthrope first.

So if you're consistently getting the buff from a Malanthrope... then you're probably playing the rules wrong or your opponent is ignorant of the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, i'm looking for an advice. What are the most efficient ways to play Leviathan and Kraken? I have Behemoth and Hydra tyranids myself, but i'm looking forward to build more. After watching the whole orktober orks-stuff, I decided NOT to jump into battlewagon and turned my intrests back to nids..


The most efficient ways?

Kraken is pretty self-explanitory. Genestealers, genestealers and more genestealers. Some Hormagaunt screens. Swarmlord. A unit of Hive Guard maybe for that double shoot strat. Flyrants with MRC and Dakka.

Leviathan isn't as common but it's most effective in 2 kinds of list. As a support detachment for a Kraken list, you can take a Supreme Command with Flyrants with four devourers. Leviathan helps boost a Flyrant's resiliency, and taking a full 3 of them can saturate enemy fire.
The second way to use Leviathan is in a swarm based list. Take a huge hoard of gants (like 120+) and support them with Neurothropes, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Saturate the board with resilient little bugs and smite anything that gets close.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 14:35:27


Post by: Spreelock


 Zimko wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, i'm looking for an advice. What are the most efficient ways to play Leviathan and Kraken? I have Behemoth and Hydra tyranids myself, but i'm looking forward to build more. After watching the whole orktober orks-stuff, I decided NOT to jump into battlewagon and turned my intrests back to nids..


The most efficient ways?

Kraken is pretty self-explanitory. Genestealers, genestealers and more genestealers. Some Hormagaunt screens. Swarmlord. A unit of Hive Guard maybe for that double shoot strat. Flyrants with MRC and Dakka.

Leviathan isn't as common but it's most effective in 2 kinds of list. As a support detachment for a Kraken list, you can take a Supreme Command with Flyrants with four devourers. Leviathan helps boost a Flyrant's resiliency, and taking a full 3 of them can saturate enemy fire.
The second way to use Leviathan is in a swarm based list. Take a huge hoard of gants (like 120+) and support them with Neurothropes, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Saturate the board with resilient little bugs and smite anything that gets close.


Thanks, yeah the Kraken seems very powerful. Is it worth trying Leviathan with War on all fronts?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 16:44:34


Post by: Zimko


 Spreelock wrote:
 Zimko wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, i'm looking for an advice. What are the most efficient ways to play Leviathan and Kraken? I have Behemoth and Hydra tyranids myself, but i'm looking forward to build more. After watching the whole orktober orks-stuff, I decided NOT to jump into battlewagon and turned my intrests back to nids..


The most efficient ways?

Kraken is pretty self-explanitory. Genestealers, genestealers and more genestealers. Some Hormagaunt screens. Swarmlord. A unit of Hive Guard maybe for that double shoot strat. Flyrants with MRC and Dakka.

Leviathan isn't as common but it's most effective in 2 kinds of list. As a support detachment for a Kraken list, you can take a Supreme Command with Flyrants with four devourers. Leviathan helps boost a Flyrant's resiliency, and taking a full 3 of them can saturate enemy fire.
The second way to use Leviathan is in a swarm based list. Take a huge hoard of gants (like 120+) and support them with Neurothropes, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Saturate the board with resilient little bugs and smite anything that gets close.


Thanks, yeah the Kraken seems very powerful. Is it worth trying Leviathan with War on all fronts?


War on all fronts is not something you plan your list around. It's more something to keep in mind of without actually worrying about achieving. But if you wanted to try to use it, I'd suggest a Battalion with 3 units of Rippers and 3 Flyrants. Rippers are always useful and disposable enough to try to throw into melee for this stratagem... or they can sit on objectives like they normally do.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 16:53:00


Post by: Spreelock


Yeah, and most of the gaunt units already have rerolls of 1, for being a big enough unit. I was not going to build a list around it. My warlord is anyway going to be a Hydra tervigon, with endless regeneration. Any thoughs on that? I kinda like it as a fluffy, alien broodmother. There was actually even rules for that in the 7th edition Apocalypse.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 17:21:13


Post by: Badablack


Tervigons won’t really accomplish much beyond smiting, but they’ll keep a 30-man unit of termagants alive indefinitely.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 20:41:44


Post by: Insectum7


Yeah, I like the idea of Tervigons a lot. But They seem difficult to manage in practice.

That said, the best use I can think of one currently is locking a Castellan in combat with Gants and just re-genning them indefinitely. Surround the thing right and it's going to have a tough time leaving combat, forcing it to just stomp 4 pt models for the rest of the game.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/02 20:46:09


Post by: Xenomancers


 Insectum7 wrote:
Yeah, I like the idea of Tervigons a lot. But They seem difficult to manage in practice.

That said, the best use I can think of one currently is locking a Castellan in combat with Gants and just re-genning them indefinitely. Surround the thing right and it's going to have a tough time leaving combat, forcing it to just stomp 4 pt models for the rest of the game.

It can walk over the gants. Doesn't work.

The thing literally needs to be cut in cost by 1/2.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/03 00:19:08


Post by: Insectum7


It's base is wide enough to make walking at least 1" beyond a well positioned squad difficult or impossible. In fact I think if you've degraded it by one level, it's impossible for it to escape if it's surrounded.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/03 09:19:41


Post by: Spreelock


I'm thinking about tervigon with 30 gaunt blob, with loads of devourers. That way my warlord is safe from the deep strikes.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/03 16:55:56


Post by: JNAProductions


 Spreelock wrote:
I'm thinking about tervigon with 30 gaunt blob, with loads of devourers. That way my warlord is safe from the deep strikes.


Remember, Mama Bug can only respawn Fleshborer Gants, not Devourer ones.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/03 17:05:14


Post by: Spreelock


Thats right, maybe she will have 20 devourers and 10 fleshborers gaunt with her.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/03 17:17:00


Post by: JNAProductions


 Spreelock wrote:
Thats right, maybe she will have 20 devourers and 10 fleshborers gaunt with her.


That's your best bet, if you want maximum firepower AND respawning.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/03 18:19:36


Post by: Spreelock


I usually play with swarmlord as a hq, but my swarmy tends to get obliterated by dropping scions with melta/plasma. Hopefully, gaunt blob and endless regeneration are the key for cutting off the deep strikes shenanigangs..


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/05 15:54:24


Post by: Zimko


 Spreelock wrote:
I usually play with swarmlord as a hq, but my swarmy tends to get obliterated by dropping scions with melta/plasma. Hopefully, gaunt blob and endless regeneration are the key for cutting off the deep strikes shenanigangs..


Gaunt screen should easily prevent deep strikers from taking out swarmy. Tervigon is just a big waste of points. For the same cost you can field 60 more termagaunts. And if you need Synapse and Smite in an HQ slot then a Neurothrope is only 70 points and can't be targeted from shooting.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/05 15:57:48


Post by: Xenomancers


 Insectum7 wrote:
It's base is wide enough to make walking at least 1" beyond a well positioned squad difficult or impossible. In fact I think if you've degraded it by one level, it's impossible for it to escape if it's surrounded.

It moves 12 inches and mechanicus knights can act at full power for 1 CP. Not saying it's not possible but you would need a lot of units. More than 30 gants


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Spreelock wrote:
Thats right, maybe she will have 20 devourers and 10 fleshborers gaunt with her.

Typically I am running 20 mans with 10 of each.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/06 12:41:48


Post by: Sneggy


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
It's base is wide enough to make walking at least 1" beyond a well positioned squad difficult or impossible. In fact I think if you've degraded it by one level, it's impossible for it to escape if it's surrounded.

It moves 12 inches and mechanicus knights can act at full power for 1 CP. Not saying it's not possible but you would need a lot of units. More than 30 gants


Just for clarity the castellan moves 10"



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/08 00:22:08


Post by: babelfish


Found my Hormagants hiding in a box in a corner yesterday, so now I need to put them in a list. I also need someone to teach me Hormagants, because I haven't run them since 5th ed and don't know what the little tricks to get the best out of them are.


This is what I came up with:

Jorungandr Battalion: Malan, Swarmy, 19x Genestealers, 30x Hormies, 30x Devilgants, 6x shock Guard, 3x Raveners w/rending and deathspitters;
Kronos Patrol: Neuro, 3x Ripper, 3x Ripper, 5x Impaler Guard, 5x Impaler Guard.

The list should play in a straightforward enough manner: use the Malanthrope to keep things alive first turn, catapult a cc threat with Swarmy, deep strike either the shock guard or the Termagants using the Raveners. Kronos provides back line shooting and some DS objective grabbing.

If I drop the Raveners + 3 Rippers I can run a Pod instead, which lets me swap Jorungandr into Kraken. I gain the speed boost, but l have to cut down to 20 devilgaunts.

If I drop the Raveners and all the Rippers I can run a Trygon as my gaunt delivery mechanism, but that forces me to deploy the shock Guard on the table every game, costing me flexibility against things like Knights. I would also have to restructure the Kronos as a spearhead and run all the Hive Guard as Kronos.

Thoughts?



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/08 03:37:33


Post by: Arson Fire


babelfish wrote:
Found my Hormagants hiding in a box in a corner yesterday, so now I need to put them in a list. I also need someone to teach me Hormagants, because I haven't run them since 5th ed and don't know what the little tricks to get the best out of them are.

Hormagaunts are a melee tarpit unit, good for shutting down gunlines.
Don't expect them to kill anything in combat. That's what genestealers are for. Hormagaunts exploit their 6" pile-in and consolidate moves to tag enemy units in combat, and prevent them from shooting.

Here is a standard assault move which you can do with pretty much any assault unit.

(by 'not forced to allocate any attacks to it', I mean you literally cannot allocate any attacks to it)

Hormagaunts are just really good at it, as their 6" pile-in + consolidate moves give them a ton of distance to leap forward and lock up enemy units.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/08 18:38:57


Post by: barboggo


Those diagrams are great.

But man... the 8th edition assault phase is dumb as feth.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/08 19:12:46


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 barboggo wrote:
Those diagrams are great.

But man... the 8th edition assault phase is dumb as feth.


I wouldn't say "dumb", but very, very "gamey". :-p Its some weird Warmahordes crap... but clearly valid and important strategy. It definitely highlights how odd GW games are at an abstract rule's level.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/08 19:47:06


Post by: KurtAngle2


What units do you think they'll change in terms of points in the next CA? I reckon atleast 40% of our units need a hefty points decrease


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/08 23:02:51


Post by: Timeshadow


I unfortunately don't see much change happening.... they could surprise us but unless every codex is getting complete pts revisions I don't see much change happening. Hopefully we don't get much if any increases... some of our stuff is very competitive.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/09 07:15:56


Post by: N.I.B.


KurtAngle2 wrote:
What units do you think they'll change in terms of points in the next CA? I reckon atleast 40% of our units need a hefty points decrease

Yeah there are a lot of rules and synergy issues, but if we just look at cost, I would hope they got the guts to lower the points for our never-seen monsters - Haruspex, Toxicrene, Maleceptor, Harpy, Hive Crone. Also Trygon, Walkrant and Tyrannocyte need some love. Mawloc is in a weird spot, can't really go down in points but kind of sucks now with his gimmick. Exocrine should probably go down a few points. It can't afford to have second turn, can't make use of cover because it cripples itself if it must move to shoot and the range of the gun is too short, making it easy to play around.

Mid-range units - Raveners, Lictors, Tyrant Guards. Biovores should drop ~5pts, and Pyrovores a few points.
I would say the Swarmlord is a tad overcosted, even though he shows up in top tournament lists. Take away guaranteed LOS blocking terrain in your deployment zone (which some tournaments have) and he's a risky investment at 300-411pts (Tyrant Guards).

As for HQ, The Red Terror, Broodlord and Tyranid Prime are all overcosted. Malanthrope should come down a little.

Special mention to Dimachaeron who needs a re-write rather than a point drop.

Not expecting anything of the above, even though there was a rumour about nid point drops.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/09 23:40:00


Post by: SHUPPET


Guys the plague of wishlisting has already swamped Dakka in recent times, can we please keep this thread free of it? Its not tactics, and theres more than enough threads where you can do this already.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/11 14:37:18


Post by: Amishprn86


 barboggo wrote:
Those diagrams are great.

But man... the 8th edition assault phase is dumb as feth.


Meh, i see it as advance tactics


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/14 18:54:12


Post by: Insectum7


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
It's base is wide enough to make walking at least 1" beyond a well positioned squad difficult or impossible. In fact I think if you've degraded it by one level, it's impossible for it to escape if it's surrounded.

It moves 12 inches and mechanicus knights can act at full power for 1 CP. Not saying it's not possible but you would need a lot of units. More than 30 gants


As above, 10". Anyone have the dimensions of the Castellan base? Something like 4.5" by 7" I think. It would take some shuffling but 30 gants could do it, even after casualties. Even if it's tricky, locking the thing in combat is one of the most cost effective ways of neutralizing it, as it can't shoot out of combat. If a squad of gants isn't going to cut it, you could miss with biovores and place the Spore Mines into blocking positions pretty easily. Neutering a Castellan with gants and spore mines would be damn amusing.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 15:25:52


Post by: Causalis


Hello brood brothers!

I've come looking for some advice. I have almost completely assembled my GSC army. But with almost all of my dudes being T3 they just die in droves and are almost always one-shot missiles that hit the enemy, kill a unit and then promptly die. So I need an anvil and I find the idea of just "moar Leman Russes" or tanks boring.

So I was thinking about taking some Nid allies. My only requirements are that the allied detachment isn't too expensive (max 500-600 points), is durable and not a lot of models. Also not something too cheesy like 3 Exocrines. Maybe 1. I'm already painting about 100 Hybrids, I don't want to paint a load of small gribblies.

That leaves me with tough monsters as a choice. Any recommendations? Some 'Fexes might be nice. No Dakkafexes though. If I wanted to play a gunline I would play Guard. Are Warriors with a mix of CC and shooty viable or even durable enough to last 2 turns? I need something to hold the line or break enemy charges by barreling into them. If the Cult had some sort of Mining Powerlifter Dreadnought I would love to take that.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 18:09:20


Post by: Drager


What do people think of Sporocysts with the new FAQ?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 18:23:22


Post by: Amishprn86


Its how i thought it would be changed to.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 19:02:48


Post by: weaver9


 Causalis wrote:
Hello brood brothers!

I've come looking for some advice. I have almost completely assembled my GSC army. But with almost all of my dudes being T3 they just die in droves and are almost always one-shot missiles that hit the enemy, kill a unit and then promptly die. So I need an anvil and I find the idea of just "moar Leman Russes" or tanks boring.

So I was thinking about taking some Nid allies. My only requirements are that the allied detachment isn't too expensive (max 500-600 points), is durable and not a lot of models. Also not something too cheesy like 3 Exocrines. Maybe 1. I'm already painting about 100 Hybrids, I don't want to paint a load of small gribblies.

That leaves me with tough monsters as a choice. Any recommendations? Some 'Fexes might be nice. No Dakkafexes though. If I wanted to play a gunline I would play Guard. Are Warriors with a mix of CC and shooty viable or even durable enough to last 2 turns? I need something to hold the line or break enemy charges by barreling into them. If the Cult had some sort of Mining Powerlifter Dreadnought I would love to take that.


Based on: no shooting, no hordes...

You could take melee 'fexes, or a trygon prime. Warriors I've never been too hot on.

You could also grab a demicharon... though it tends to die t1.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 19:03:23


Post by: Astmeister


Sporocysts are very good now. Meotic spores even more so. With behemoth really dangerous for anything.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 19:11:29


Post by: pinecone77


Yeah, Ole'One Eye and some CC Fexen sounds good. Or...Go max MSU with Neurothrope, Lictors and MSU Warriors to put everybody in cover or BLOS. That might be useful just as a suprise usage maybe even run them as Kronos for some extra anti Psycher madness.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/19 20:56:38


Post by: SHUPPET


As someone who was running 3 pre-nerf:
Sporocysts are fixed to actually work now, but are still much worse now than pre FAQ2, since if forward deploying, you can no longer turn 1 strike with a blob of Purestrains or Cultists brought in by a Primus. This was the number one tool for keeping them in the game and not just wiped off the board turn 1. Their other strength was against aggressive match ups, as excellent screen that could deploy forward from your army and created even more space if they got to spawn mines. This role was also impacted by the removal of some of the strongest threats that did this, like Alpha Legion for example. They will be useful in some match ups now, but they just aren't very good as a unit on the whole anymore because of the way the game changed around them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 01:18:13


Post by: Badablack


Sporocysts are still one of the only turn 1 deepstrikers, and are hugely useful in objective games. Starting 9” from the enemy deployment zone, not just enemy models, does hurt though.

It’s nice to get a definite ruling on them though. I had someone at a tournament ready to scream at me from the utter UNFAIRNESS of getting to deepstrike something turn 1 when he couldn’t.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 13:36:55


Post by: N.I.B.


yeah Sporocysts are imo worse off now than when we knew if we were going first or second, when deploying it. Unlike Nurglings they are hard/impossible to hide and not cheap enough to throw away.
When you knew you had first turn you could deploy it aggressively, surge forward and present a lot of hard targeting choices for your opponent. Now you have to gamble, or just deploy it defensively every game.
Back on the shelf for tournament play.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 15:32:04


Post by: Zimko


Meiotic Spores also got the same scout buff. This is excellent news.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 16:18:39


Post by: Dynas


With the changes to Meitoic spores will we start to see them more? How does this change the uses/tactics for the unit?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 18:54:44


Post by: Badablack


Did Meiotic spores get changed from 12” to 9” from enemies? That would definitely be a buff.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 19:15:45


Post by: Astmeister


Yes. I think they are pretty strong now.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 19:24:59


Post by: Zimko


 Badablack wrote:
Did Meiotic spores get changed from 12” to 9” from enemies? That would definitely be a buff.


They did. Also, they deploy like space marine scouts now so you can block other infiltrators. With just Kraken's 3d6 pick highest advance, they can blow up onto something on turn 1. With the help of the double move stratagem, they can reach even further. A lot of people give up first turn for objectives. Meiotic Spores can punish an opponent for this.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 22:04:14


Post by: C4790M


Sporocysts make good distraction carnifexes. Drop them in the midfield and make the opponent prioritise between mulching them or blasting your flyrant. If they dont shoot the sporecysts, punish them by blasting them with spore mines and heavy bolter shots. If they do shoot them, big whoop, you lost 100 points


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/20 22:14:53


Post by: Badablack


I wonder if our spore mines stratagem will get updated too. 3cp to drop mines in a long row 9” across the enemy deployment zone would certainly be one way for a ranged list to stop a melee army in its tracks.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 08:04:54


Post by: Causalis


So I'll probably run a spearhead detachment to help out my GSC.

Neurotrophe
Old One Eye
3x Carnifex with Talons, Tusks, Spore Cysts and Bonemace Tail

Thats about 600 points.

Valid build? What's your experience with Carnifexes? Are they worth their points and do they even live long enough to get to the enemy?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 08:17:20


Post by: SHUPPET


You've got 5 models in your army not a single gun between them either. You just aren't going to be able to deal with anything infantry at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any sort of heavy weapons are going to be pointed at your Carnifexes all game and they are going to force you to get through their entire army to get to them last. All the while outscoring you. It's 600 points but other armies will definitely make it go further than that, you probably should try to too. A couple of shiny things is nice, but we actually have some great troops for low level games.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 08:50:57


Post by: Ratius


So I'll probably run a spearhead detachment to help out my GSC.


His carni spearhead is in addition to whatever his GSC take.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 08:54:52


Post by: Causalis


That's what the other 1400 points of my GSC are for...? They are great at killing infantry and if they shoot everything at my Fexes they aren't shooting at my Goliaths or Leman Russes.

As I said in my post above, I want an anvil for my GSC that takes the pressure off until my ambushes arrive.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 09:08:38


Post by: SHUPPET


I missed that i thought you were just making a low point army.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 13:58:20


Post by: Xenomancers


So I saw some people using OOE in tournaments and I always wrote him off. Looking closer though I can see how he can be a good answer to a lot of CC threats - plus I am usually running a lot of carnifex anyways. Problem is I end up with like 154 points and not sure what to spend it on.

The list so far is
Bat - Levi

Nuero
Nuero
rippers
rippers
rippers

4x Fex, Sporocyst, Acid Maw, 4x dev, Bonemace
4x Fex, Sporocyst, Enhanced Senses, HVC/DS, Bonemace


SC Levi

OEE
FHT devs/mrc
FHT devs/mrc

I could just go for more troops I guess - like 40 termis. Or I could do 1 more fex and 1 more ripper. What you think?



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 15:00:24


Post by: Amishprn86


He is very good. No one should ever write him off. Given that he is a character with 9wounds he cant be shot very easily.

With Stras for Monsters he can re-roll fail wounds, +1D, he is already S14, -3ap, 3D, hits on 2+ on the charge.

Thats 5 S14, -3ap 4D attacks that hits on 2+, re-rolls all wounds.

If you are fighting T7 or under you dont need to re-roll wounds as you are wounding on a 2+. So if you get all your hits/wounds and break their armor with 0 invul (or they fail them) he could do up to 20 damage.

He can in theory kill a knight in 1 round.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 15:29:23


Post by: Causalis


OOE generates extra attacks on a 6+. Does that mean that if he charges he generates extra attacks on a 4+? +1 from Immortal Batteringram and +1 from Alpha Leader.

For my Neurothrophe, would you recommend Onslaught or Catalyst? I plan on using Kraken for my Spearhead Detachment so that I could leave and enter melee as I need to (and have good odds for advance rolls).


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 15:35:43


Post by: Amishprn86


Ive been playing it as a 5+ on the charge b.c the claws gives him -1 to hit.

He is normally a 3+/6+ to gain more attacks
Claws makes him a 4+/7 (aka 6+) to gain more attacks.
Aura puts him back down to a 3+/6+
Charge puts him up to a 2+/5+

But if you use the MST then yes, its a 2+/4+


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/21 19:38:20


Post by: pinecone77


 Xenomancers wrote:
So I saw some people using OOE in tournaments and I always wrote him off. Looking closer though I can see how he can be a good answer to a lot of CC threats - plus I am usually running a lot of carnifex anyways. Problem is I end up with like 154 points and not sure what to spend it on.

The list so far is
Bat - Levi

Nuero
Nuero
rippers
rippers
rippers

4x Fex, Sporocyst, Acid Maw, 4x dev, Bonemace
4x Fex, Sporocyst, Enhanced Senses, HVC/DS, Bonemace


SC Levi

OEE
FHT devs/mrc
FHT devs/mrc

I could just go for more troops I guess - like 40 termis. Or I could do 1 more fex and 1 more ripper. What you think?

Looks like a fun list! If it was me, I'd toss in some Termagants. A screen is always nice, and you can grab objectives and climb buildings.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/23 11:43:25


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


pinecone77 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
So I saw some people using OOE in tournaments and I always wrote him off. Looking closer though I can see how he can be a good answer to a lot of CC threats - plus I am usually running a lot of carnifex anyways. Problem is I end up with like 154 points and not sure what to spend it on.

The list so far is
Bat - Levi

Nuero
Nuero
rippers
rippers
rippers

4x Fex, Sporocyst, Acid Maw, 4x dev, Bonemace
4x Fex, Sporocyst, Enhanced Senses, HVC/DS, Bonemace


SC Levi

OEE
FHT devs/mrc
FHT devs/mrc

I could just go for more troops I guess - like 40 termis. Or I could do 1 more fex and 1 more ripper. What you think?

Looks like a fun list! If it was me, I'd toss in some Termagants. A screen is always nice, and you can grab objectives and climb buildings.


THIS! THIS THIS THIS! I'm fairly well known in my local for running a ton of monstrous creatures and the stupid rules of not letting MC's charge onto roofs has screwed me so many times. A nice screen of termagants to tie up the hellblasters hiding on a roof would help, so much!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/23 14:24:51


Post by: Badablack


I feel like hormagaunts would make better building assaulters. That 6” pile-in means they can jump up floors and pull in extra units trying to hide on higher floors.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/23 18:38:27


Post by: pinecone77


 Badablack wrote:
I feel like hormagaunts would make better building assaulters. That 6” pile-in means they can jump up floors and pull in extra units trying to hide on higher floors.

Better building assault, but a weaker screen. Likely comes down to playstyle.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/29 01:03:39


Post by: admironheart


Off and on again player. I bought a 7th ed Nid army to play in our 2nd ed. games. That was 2 years ago when my son wanted to play. He ended up liking Guard more. I am a major Eldar fan with some Blood Angels and others.

I think I have about 2500k worth of points.
This is what I have:
Spoiler:

Index
3 Shrikes with Devourerers

Codex

Brood Lord
Flyrant with quad Devourerers
Tervigan

3 Lictors
2 Hive Guard with Impailers
1 Tyrant Guard
1 Zoanathrope

8 Tyranid Warriors [Death Spitters x3,Devourers x3, Venom Canon, Barbed Strangler]
41 Hormaguants
31 Termaguants {all with Fleshborers}
12 Genestealers {basic}
16 Genestealers {harden Carapace} [2 have acid maw?? looks like flesh hooks but out of the mouth?}

14 Gargoyles
1 Harpy
4 Spore Mines

1 Carnifex with quad Devourers and Enhanced Senses
1 Trygon/Mawloc {Magnets}

I think that is it. I have 4 Genestealer spawning things? not sure and 2 larger pit looking terrain/spawning thing.
I have about 20 unpainted genestealers as well.



So what do I need to pick up?

cannot use the zoanthrope...and the force seems to be anti infantry but not much in the way of anti tank.

I would like to go with 2 Battalions but am missing an HQ. I could go for a Brigade but need more Heavy/elites/ and maybe Fast Attack.

I was thinking about Kraken.

Any thoughts.....Thanks all for the advice


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*** OH I did not want to invest too much time in painting the nids. I have about 10K of Exodites/Harlequins and Eldar that still need my love..So ONLY 1 or 2 UNITS at max I want to work on for a tournament list*****


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/11/29 18:20:26


Post by: Zimko


The Zoanthrope can serve as a Neurothrope to give you another HQ. Don't worry about WYSIWYG when it comes to small details like which mouth you put on Genestealers. As long as you have a way to track which 5 have Acid Maws then you're good. I painted their tongues red (the rest are green) to represent dripping acid.

The best core you can come up with for this set of stuff is...

Kraken Battalion
Flyrant
Neuro
20 Genestealers
20 Genestealers (using the unpainted ones)
30 Hormagaunts

After that it's a bit tougher. You need more HQs. Broodlord and Tervigon unfortunately are pretty bad. And even if you wanted to try a Tervigon list, you'd need at least 30 more Termagants and either Venomthropes or a Malanthrope.

You have no ripper swarms at all? All those gants didn't come with any rippers? Rippers are an excellent unit for objectives and filling out troop slots for cheap.

6 Hive Guard are a great unit. You only have 2 which doesn't even make a legal unit anymore. I'd try to get 4 more.

That's pretty much all you can do competitively with what you have. Swarmlord would be nice. More Flyrants would be nice. 3 Venomthropes or Malanthrope. Old One Eye. You could go for carnifex spam or Genestealer spam. That's all I got for ya.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/01 11:13:59


Post by: HarveyBooze


Hey Guys!

Tyranids Rookie here (and 40k 8th edition freshman in general), looking for some advice from veterans to build up his own nice little swarm. I tried to get into the different units and army concepts, but so far I'm still struggling in finding a propper army composition that I would like to run. It doesn't have to be super competetive, instead I'm looking more for a wellrounded concept with nice synergies and / or a clear approach. I'm aiming for 1500 points (for now).


Some thoughts / facts / ideas / preferences:

- No Genstealers (although I know they are awesome)
- Spore Mine Heavy Approach.....is this a viable strategy? Maybe a focus on Mortal Wounds in general. What are the units / compositions I should focus on?
- Carnifexe and Old One Eye: I like the picture of an OOE-Turtle as a warlord (with his personal trait), escorted by some melee carnifexes crushing into enemy lines
- Tyranid Warriors: I like them....and I really could be into the idea of a Warrior heavy list with an Tyranid Prime for example.
- Melee vs Dakka: I want to run both....kind of a mix....a threaten melee force running into enemy lines (or better more than one), backed up by an annoying gunline
- Hive Mind Trait: I'm creating my own color scheme, so I'm open for every trait that fits the list. I just want to avoid using more than one in one list

No need to bring all of this thoughts together in one concept / list...but maybe you guys have some ideas and advices to get me on track to find the right approach for me. Would be awesome!








Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/01 17:34:07


Post by: pinecone77


Well, if you plan on Warrior heavy...take a long look at using Leviathan. Then add in units to exploit Leviathan Strats.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/01 21:29:19


Post by: Insectum7


HarveyBooze wrote:
Hey Guys!

Tyranids Rookie here (and 40k 8th edition freshman in general), looking for some advice from veterans to build up his own nice little swarm. I tried to get into the different units and army concepts, but so far I'm still struggling in finding a propper army composition that I would like to run. It doesn't have to be super competetive, instead I'm looking more for a wellrounded concept with nice synergies and / or a clear approach. I'm aiming for 1500 points (for now).


Some thoughts / facts / ideas / preferences:

- No Genstealers (although I know they are awesome)
- Spore Mine Heavy Approach.....is this a viable strategy? Maybe a focus on Mortal Wounds in general. What are the units / compositions I should focus on?
- Carnifexe and Old One Eye: I like the picture of an OOE-Turtle as a warlord (with his personal trait), escorted by some melee carnifexes crushing into enemy lines
- Tyranid Warriors: I like them....and I really could be into the idea of a Warrior heavy list with an Tyranid Prime for example.
- Melee vs Dakka: I want to run both....kind of a mix....a threaten melee force running into enemy lines (or better more than one), backed up by an annoying gunline
- Hive Mind Trait: I'm creating my own color scheme, so I'm open for every trait that fits the list. I just want to avoid using more than one in one list

No need to bring all of this thoughts together in one concept / list...but maybe you guys have some ideas and advices to get me on track to find the right approach for me. Would be awesome!


Right now I run an almost exclusively Warrior 2000 point list, and it's served me surprisingly well.

Battalion
Prime, w/boneswords
Neurothrope
9 warriors, 6 Deathspitters, 3 venom cannons, 3 boneswords
9 warriors, 6 Deathspitters, 3 venom cannons, 3 boneswords
9 warriors, 6 Deathspitters, 3 venom cannons, 3 boneswords
1000 pts

Battalion
Prime, w/boneswords
Neurothrope
9 warriors, 6 Deathspitters, 3 venom cannons, 3 boneswords
9 warriors, 6 Deathspitters, 3 venom cannons, 3 boneswords
9 warriors, 6 Deathspitters, 3 venom cannons, 3 boneswords
1000 pts

I use Jormangundr fleet so they all have a 3+ save. It's my "fun" army, but It's been a real headache for some of my local opponents. The caveat for this collection is the expense. Warriors are very expensive in terms of dollar per point, and it's not particularly competetive and may not weather edition changes well, so from an investment standpoint I can't really recommend it. But it might serve as inspiration. Personally I love the Warrior models, (old and new). If you dig them, building up a couple squads could be pretty rewarding.

A better list would have more variety. I just started with a theme and haven't painted much else yet.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/02 04:26:06


Post by: Dynas


 Xenomancers wrote:
So I saw some people using OOE in tournaments and I always wrote him off. Looking closer though I can see how he can be a good answer to a lot of CC threats - plus I am usually running a lot of carnifex anyways. Problem is I end up with like 154 points and not sure what to spend it on.

The list so far is
Bat - Levi

Nuero
Nuero
rippers
rippers
rippers

4x Fex, Sporocyst, Acid Maw, 4x dev, Bonemace
4x Fex, Sporocyst, Enhanced Senses, HVC/DS, Bonemace


SC Levi

OEE
FHT devs/mrc
FHT devs/mrc

I could just go for more troops I guess - like 40 termis. Or I could do 1 more fex and 1 more ripper. What you think?



Troops for screens for the fexes. Objectives.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/02 14:10:11


Post by: Timeshadow


HarveyBooze wrote:
Hey Guys!

Tyranids Rookie here (and 40k 8th edition freshman in general), looking for some advice from veterans to build up his own nice little swarm. I tried to get into the different units and army concepts, but so far I'm still struggling in finding a propper army composition that I would like to run. It doesn't have to be super competetive, instead I'm looking more for a wellrounded concept with nice synergies and / or a clear approach. I'm aiming for 1500 points (for now).


Some thoughts / facts / ideas / preferences:

- No Genstealers (although I know they are awesome)
- Spore Mine Heavy Approach.....is this a viable strategy? Maybe a focus on Mortal Wounds in general. What are the units / compositions I should focus on?
- Carnifexe and Old One Eye: I like the picture of an OOE-Turtle as a warlord (with his personal trait), escorted by some melee carnifexes crushing into enemy lines
- Tyranid Warriors: I like them....and I really could be into the idea of a Warrior heavy list with an Tyranid Prime for example.
- Melee vs Dakka: I want to run both....kind of a mix....a threaten melee force running into enemy lines (or better more than one), backed up by an annoying gunline
- Hive Mind Trait: I'm creating my own color scheme, so I'm open for every trait that fits the list. I just want to avoid using more than one in one list

No need to bring all of this thoughts together in one concept / list...but maybe you guys have some ideas and advices to get me on track to find the right approach for me. Would be awesome!








Spores are great if used on mass they drop mortal wounds and harass other units forcing them to waist movement and shooting to remove them or get around them. I would suggest a kronos battalion with 2x3 biovores and 1x6 hive guard 2x nerothrope and 3x3 rippers as a backline base. A fort network of 3x sporocysts with deathspitters is cheap and great for pushing your front line.

This all comes to just under 1200pts which leaves you 800 for your forward assault element or just dbl down on shooting though in that case 30 strong gaunt blobs for screening are almost a must.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/02 23:18:05


Post by: admironheart


My Tervigon came with magnets so I could mount a Rupture Canon and a Tyranofex head.

Would it be ok in a tournament to use a Tervigon body equipped as a Tyranofex and use it as the latter?

How would it be received??

thanks


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/02 23:26:19


Post by: Amishprn86


Weapons matter moreso than the body looks if its the same body/base.

But as always ask the TO if you think it might be a problem.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/02 23:38:34


Post by: Rockfish


The Tervigon is the alt build of the tyrannofex kit, so the only thing that is different is that there us a bunch of termagants coming out the front. I doubt anyone would object but it is worth consulting on it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 03:45:51


Post by: admironheart


Thanks for all the feedback.

I am looking at getting a Malanthrope. I hope most tournaments permit FW????

I am also looking at a Tyranid Prime. Is there a model for them or was there? Any suggestions on custom making one?

I alwo want to change my old metal Zoanathrope into a Neurothrope. Where can I find a tail to model onto? Is there a sprue or perhaps a dark elder or chaos piece? Any suggestions so I can identify it as a Neurothrope.

Lastly is a single Brigade too many drops? It will be 18+ or should I go with 2 batallions which will still be close to 18.

thanks again.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 03:57:59


Post by: Amishprn86


All large tournaments lets FW, only CAAC locals dont let FW in.

Primes are in the Warrior box.

Neurothrope, just use some Trygon bits to make the tail/head/back look bigger.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 06:14:50


Post by: admironheart


A question about Kraken.

The last sentence states that in addition the units can fall back and still charge.

Got to love the English language.

Does that line ONLY mean you can fall back and charge the same turn?

Or is it added to the previous rules of advancing.

So can I have a unit fall back move + advance {not sure if this is a legal option} and then charge?

Can I have a unit move, advance, shoot and then charge?

Thanks again.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 06:32:55


Post by: Arson Fire


'Such units' in the final sentence simply refers to units with the Kraken adaptation. Not to units that have advanced.

Kraken gives two separate buffs.
1. Units can advance 3d6 and pick the highest.
2. Units can fall back out of combat and still charge.


No combining them, since you can't advance when you fall back out of combat.
No charging after advancing, unless you have another rule that allows you to do so. Such as Genestealers Swift and Deadly rule, or the Onslaught psychic power.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 07:08:50


Post by: Hard_rock_geo


Anyone else seen the rumored points changes for Tyranids?

Swarmlord to 250
Neurothrope to 90
Broodlord to 115
Pyrovores to 25
Harpy to 105
lictors to 30
T-fex to 150
Stranglethorn cannon to 15

In addition to points changes to monstrous scything talons apparently - not sure if this means monstrous rending claws will be changed too. If not then the broodlord will be seeing some play!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 07:58:55


Post by: Insectum7


Neurothropes to 90 makes sense, they're awesome.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 09:51:46


Post by: Amishprn86


Hard_rock_geo wrote:
Anyone else seen the rumored points changes for Tyranids?

Swarmlord to 250
Neurothrope to 90
Broodlord to 115
Pyrovores to 25
Harpy to 105
lictors to 30
T-fex to 150
Stranglethorn cannon to 15

In addition to points changes to monstrous scything talons apparently - not sure if this means monstrous rending claws will be changed too. If not then the broodlord will be seeing some play!


Yes, but since its "i know a guy, that knows a guy, that saw the book" i didnt bother in trusting it. For all we know its just a good guess from a person.

With that said if we are going to talk about, then this isnt the full list either, Haru, Mala, Tox, all went down as well

Haru 170pts
Mala 150pts
Toxi 140pts
Venom Cannon 12pts

We also dont know what is with or without upgrades, MRC could have points cost now, so that Broodlord might actually be +5pts more.

Over all we know these units will go down, its just a matter of by how much.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 10:22:54


Post by: Eihnlazer


Nuerothrope should indeed cost about 90, malanthrope should only cost 110. Broodlord needed a reduction badly.

25 point pyrovores is amazing. Lictors still aren't cheap enough, 25 would be good for them.

Stranglethorn was definitely too expensive, no one really used them. At 15 points though, its a buff to Sporocysts in my opinion.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 10:38:53


Post by: Amishprn86


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Nuerothrope should indeed cost about 90, malanthrope should only cost 110. Broodlord needed a reduction badly.

25 point pyrovores is amazing. Lictors still aren't cheap enough, 25 would be good for them.

Stranglethorn was definitely too expensive, no one really used them. At 15 points though, its a buff to Sporocysts in my opinion.


Sadly, Malanthrope most likely wont get touched at all, and Sporocysts/Tyrannocytes dont have StC, they have Barbed Stranglers

StC are on Carnifexs, Tyrants, and Harpies, i believe that is it. No one used them b.c HVC are same cost but better, yeah its 1/2 the shots, but better ap, damage, and to wound, when you look at the math it makes since, the HvC is better against anything T4 or higher, the StC is only better against T3, but then why not take Devs for T3?

Its clear that StC is meant for anti-infantry as it gets +1 to hit vs 10+ models, if it was cheaper i would LOVE to have my Harpies completely Anti-infantry with StC's, if they are 135pts (thats 44pts cheaper) with those guns, it might be worth it.

Edit: Typos/spelling


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 11:18:08


Post by: Eihnlazer


Ahh that's true, was mixing the Barbed strangler with them in my head.



hmm...... Still really liking pyrovores at that points cost. Makes leviathan army look a lot better. Also makes them a points efficient backup to kraken genstealer rush.


Two waves of stealers followed up by 3 units of vores + lictors and endless swarm/pheromone trail actually looks viable for RTT's now.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 11:27:22


Post by: Amishprn86


I see Pyrovores in Kraken more than anything, they are assault weapons, move+advance best of 3D6 and still shoot.

Also counter melee unit for DSing if you need to, or just overwatch in general. Good area denial for chargers as well.

The problem with DSing them, is you have to spend more points on units that dont do enough already, remember, its 1-3 HF's, thats cool, but not very good to add another 30-100pts for DSing purpose, if the units could be 6-9, then maybe.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 12:26:40


Post by: Eihnlazer


With the proposed points changes, you could see something like this:


Kraken battalion

FHT/w psacks, MRC, devourers, chamelionic
Broodlord

Stealers x20
Stealers x20
Rippers x3

Pyrovore x3
Pyrovorex3
Lictor

Kronos Vanguard

Nuerothrope

HG x6
HG x6
Venomthrope x4




150 points reserved for Endless swarm (both units of vores can come back).


Granted its a bit CP starved, but would dropping 3 HG and a venomthrope get you a Genestealer cult battalion for the extra CP?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 12:51:16


Post by: C4790M


I’d love to spam pyrovores at that cost but my wallet can’t takr that kind of strain


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 13:35:11


Post by: Eihnlazer


So no, the GSC battalion is 296 points, so dropping 3 hive guard and a venom doesn't net you enough points (174). Any other suggestions to get more CP on the above list?



On the flip side, I can just forget about Endless swarm and pheromone trail altogether and just take more pyrovores to begin with I suppose, which would alleviate some of the CP problems as well. You'd only start with 9, but since you'd only need a few for double tapping with the HG and for double advancing with the stealers you could definitely make them last 3 turns.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 13:59:48


Post by: Timeshadow


Imagine dbl tapping a brood of 3 pyrovores 6d6 auto hits @ 12" thats some nasty gas.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 16:28:03


Post by: admironheart


The 3 cp stratagem Call the Brood for 5 genestealers.

1) Do you have to save reinforcement points for it?
2) If so how does that work
3)Can the Genestealers be maxed out in extras like extended carapace, etc

thanks


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 16:39:49


Post by: Eihnlazer


Yes. In general all stratagems that spawn new units require reinforcement points. Only stratagems that replenish old units (that haven't been fully destroyed) do not require reinforcement points.


The stratagem literally just spawns 5 genestealers within range of a broodlord and really serves no major purpose other than to give the broodlord some bodyguards to soak up smites/shooting that would have gone into him.


I don't remember any mention in the stratagem on how they are geared out. So either with nothing, or with all options maxed.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 19:20:06


Post by: Badablack


I’ve set aside 60 reinforcement points in the past to middling effect. It lets you use any of the 3 stratagems that summon units. 6 spore mines, 5 genestealers or 15 termagants. Only the termagant one was any real use, popping a unit in for last minute objective/behind enemy lines work.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/03 20:09:16


Post by: admironheart


so is this list junk or does it have potential ?

I am guessing at some of the leaked/rumored CA2018 points
Spoiler:

Kraken Brigade

HQ Broodlord
HQ Neurothrope
HQ Malanthrope

T 3 Ripper swarms
T 6 Warriors
T 10 Hormagaunts
T 20 Hormagaunts
T 20 Termagaunts
T 15 Genestealers

E 1 Lictor
E 1 Lictor
E 5 Hive Guard

FA 3 Shrikes
FA 3 sporemines
FA 10 Gargoyles

HS T-Fex with Rupture canon
HS Carnifex with quad Devourers
HS Trygon

Flyer Harpy

These are pretty much already all painted minus a half dozen that I have ordered


Not sure if I want to go without a Tyrant....It only leaves me 2 psykers as well.

Going to make a base with the Guard and T-fex in the back using terrain. Surround them with the Termagaunts and an Infestation node near the center
Keeping 1 guant, the Lictors, the Harpy, both Hormagaunts and Shrikes to use the Malanthrope in the middle to give =1 (and -2 to lictors, Harpy, and 1 character with the Kraken Bio-relic) The Carnifex and Neurothrope in there too.

place 3 infestation nodes around the board and stealers off board,... gargoyles, rippers, spore mines, trygon and warriors in reinforcements as well.

T-fex and Guard hit vehicles.
Trygon and warriors, gargoyles move up to shoot. Broodlord and Hormagaunts move up and Genestealers hopefully appear in good area and shrikes move up for Snyapsis as needed.

Will try to use the 6" pile in moves to 'trap' a unit in hth and keep from getting shot up.

opinions? What will wreck this? Too complicated to work?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Who would be your warlord in this list? Broodlord or Malanthrope or perhaps someone else?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 01:14:46


Post by: Amishprn86


TheTyranidHive is saying Tyrannocytes are 75pts before weapons.

Thats a 28pts drop from current.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 02:32:45


Post by: pinecone77


Hey I just noticed that Formations are making a comeback...in Vigilus but likely after maybe a CA type thing. This might change the way Nids play, oh and our GSC brothers and sisters as well.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 06:46:20


Post by: Insectum7


 Amishprn86 wrote:
TheTyranidHive is saying Tyrannocytes are 75pts before weapons.

Thats a 28pts drop from current.


100 points with Deathspitters, that's useable with a good plan, imo. The problem for me is the current limitations on deep striking.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 07:01:24


Post by: tneva82


pinecone77 wrote:
Hey I just noticed that Formations are making a comeback...in Vigilus but likely after maybe a CA type thing. This might change the way Nids play, oh and our GSC brothers and sisters as well.


Vigilus coming together with CA. However bad news is tyranids aren't yet involved in Vigilus campaign and thus won't be getting anything in the book, as confirmed in leaked content page.

Spoiler:


See anything tyranid specific in faction rules? I can't find anything that sounds tyranid like.

So tyranids, necrons, tau etc have to wait for another campaign book.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 07:07:24


Post by: SHUPPET


the fun on Vigilus stops if a Hive Fleet shows up


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 07:08:33


Post by: Amishprn86


tneva82 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
Hey I just noticed that Formations are making a comeback...in Vigilus but likely after maybe a CA type thing. This might change the way Nids play, oh and our GSC brothers and sisters as well.


Vigilus coming together with CA. However bad news is tyranids aren't yet involved in Vigilus campaign and thus won't be getting anything in the book, as confirmed in leaked content page.

Spoiler:


See anything tyranid specific in faction rules? I can't find anything that sounds tyranid like.

So tyranids, necrons, tau etc have to wait for another campaign book.


There are more books coming out, this is the 1st of 3.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/04 19:14:53


Post by: pinecone77


tneva82 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
Hey I just noticed that Formations are making a comeback...in Vigilus but likely after maybe a CA type thing. This might change the way Nids play, oh and our GSC brothers and sisters as well.


Vigilus coming together with CA. However bad news is tyranids aren't yet involved in Vigilus campaign and thus won't be getting anything in the book, as confirmed in leaked content page.

Spoiler:


See anything tyranid specific in faction rules? I can't find anything that sounds tyranid like.

So tyranids, necrons, tau etc have to wait for another campaign book.


Yes, I saw that, but I figure Vigilus is a big fancy play test for the new rules. And if they work out then everybody else will be getting a version.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 15:47:30


Post by: admironheart


Hey if the Tyranid Harpy drops its spore mine attack and misses....the spore mine model that you are supposed to set up....does that come out of Reinforcements?

Can you opt not to place a model if you don't have the points set aside?

thanks


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 15:55:24


Post by: Kitane


No, spore mines created by weapons are free.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 16:33:13


Post by: Eihnlazer


So with the new CA points leaks the following list clocks in at 2000 points. How would you change it?


Kraken Battalion

Broodlord
Malanthrope
Tyranid Prime/w Deathspitter, bone swords, adrenaline, toxin, flesh hooks


2 units of 20 genestealers/w 4 acid maw

Unit of Warriors/w 4x deathspitter/boneswords, 2x venom cannon, adrenaline

2 units of 3 pyrovores
unit of pyrovores x2

Kronos Battalion

Nuerothrope
Malanthrope

Unit of Termagants/w 2 devourers, 8 fleshborers
2 units of Termagants/w 1 devourer, 9 fleshborers


Unit of hive guard/w 6x impaler cannon
Unit of hive guard/w 3x impaler cannon






Edited the list to double battalion for more CP.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 16:49:51


Post by: Spoletta


Pyrovores at 25 points...
Playable pyrovores... i never thought i would see this day.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 17:05:48


Post by: SHUPPET


we have a lot more options now. Almost everything there might now have some use. However Swarmlord is now 20 pts more expensive than a Flyrant. At that cost you're basically punishing yourself if you don't take him, and that kinda sucks.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 17:15:54


Post by: Spoletta


 SHUPPET wrote:
we have a lot more options now. Almost everything there might now have some use. However Swarmlord is now 20 pts more expensive than a Flyrant. At that cost you're basically punishing yourself if you don't take him, and that kinda sucks.


They are really different units, you can't compare them. Swarmy is somewhat comparable to a walkrant, where you have a 70 point difference on a model that does a lot more stuff but has the same durability. Sure, swarmy now is good.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 17:49:57


Post by: C4790M


Wow those points drops. Broodlord is defo worth taking now for essential a neurothrop with a blender attatched for 20 points.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 17:59:25


Post by: Eihnlazer


We've got people saying they think the malanthropes been reverted to original codex cost since its not shown in this years CA.

Fingers crossed, though I don't believe that to be the case. 140 is too high in my opinion but 90 was too low as well.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 19:21:20


Post by: Timeshadow


I have been wanting to use a tyranid prime with 2 full 9 broods of warriors for ages now and with a total 78 points drop for them they might be viable. Also Harpy down 30 pts effectively with the 2 HVC... again might be something to look into.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 19:41:50


Post by: Eldarain


Great news all around. I'm really happy for that dude running the old school Nid Warrior army.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 19:49:50


Post by: Amishprn86


Spoletta wrote:
Pyrovores at 25 points...
Playable pyrovores... i never thought i would see this day.


If you where a WAAC player they were the single greatest model in the 6/7 Tyranids codex and in the entire game b.c it was a miss type in wording that said "if it is kill by ID, every unit suffers hit for each model within D6 range" So.... every unit will take X amount of hits for how many models are within X range... We asked FW to faq it and they didnt. Every tournament FAQ re-wording it to the correct way. When this came out Typhus had a somewhat similar ability (tho it was buffs not damage) and GW faq that instantly, so it had a precedence in place already.

Someone did this at a major GT, they allowed it just for that 1 GT and never again lol you might be able to dig it up and find it still.


Joking aside, i too might be playing Pyrovores now, at least for fun games.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 19:57:01


Post by: Insectum7


If the leaks are legit my army just saved 144 points on Venom Cannons. Another 20 on HQs.

Which is a bit weird. Venom Cannons stat-out like Impaler Cannons, the only difference being Ignoring LOS and Cover, and Impalers are Heavy instead of Assault. Those are big, but not 18 points big, imo.

Not like I'm complaining though.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 20:23:29


Post by: Amishprn86


Biovores 50
Brooldlord 115
Exocrine 170
Harpy 105
Hive Crone 135
Haruspex 170
Flyrant 190
Lictor 30
Maleceptor 150
Neurothrope 90
Pyrovores 25
Tervigon 180
Toxicrene 140
Tyranid Prime 70
Tyrannoctye 75
Tyrannofex 151
Deathleaper 60
The Red Terror 50
Swarmlord 250
HVC 18
Massive ST 2 pairs (Trygons) 40
StC 15
Venom C 12


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 22:25:56


Post by: Tyran


 Insectum7 wrote:
If the leaks are legit my army just saved 144 points on Venom Cannons. Another 20 on HQs.

Which is a bit weird. Venom Cannons stat-out like Impaler Cannons, the only difference being Ignoring LOS and Cover, and Impalers are Heavy instead of Assault. Those are big, but not 18 points big, imo.

Not like I'm complaining though.

Impaler Cannons also are native BS3+.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/07 22:56:37


Post by: Insectum7


Tyran wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
If the leaks are legit my army just saved 144 points on Venom Cannons. Another 20 on HQs.

Which is a bit weird. Venom Cannons stat-out like Impaler Cannons, the only difference being Ignoring LOS and Cover, and Impalers are Heavy instead of Assault. Those are big, but not 18 points big, imo.

Not like I'm complaining though.

Impaler Cannons also are native BS3+.


It's a little controversial whether the cost is in the gun or the guy, but sure. My VCs are always Primed for a 3+, anyways. Still, you have a 30 point gun vs.a 12 point gun doing much the same task, essentially.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/08 00:50:55


Post by: Eihnlazer


Being able to shoot without LOS and ignore cover is easily worth double points on a weapon if it has a range of 24" or higher.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/08 08:54:36


Post by: Spoletta


WIth primes now being our cheapest HQ, the warriors being 91 for a min squad with swords deathspitters glands and venom cannons doesn't look so bad for a troop.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/08 15:55:52


Post by: admironheart


How does Warriors look with a Trygon entrance? Not for charging as everyone expects, but to drop a flanking shooting blob with some serious wounds and shooting....not to mention synapsis.

Has anyone had any luck ?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/08 16:16:43


Post by: Amishprn86


Take as Behemoth with AG's and why not also charge? 8" charge re-rolling isnt that bad of chances, and for 9pts (1per guy) I think its worth the chance.

Im excited, i want to try Warriors again, but the SoB beta is coming out so idk what i will be playing lol


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/08 19:24:05


Post by: pinecone77


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Take as Behemoth with AG's and why not also charge? 8" charge re-rolling isnt that bad of chances, and for 9pts (1per guy) I think its worth the chance.

Im excited, i want to try Warriors again, but the SoB beta is coming out so idk what i will be playing lol


Also look at Jormangandr Ravager+ Warriors with Adrenals. Leviathan Warriors are feeling the love as well.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/08 22:22:53


Post by: SHUPPET


I think a big thing is between buffs to Trygons, Tyrannofexen, Harpies, and even Exocrine, while also receiving the addition of Abominants lately (even for people who don't want to paint up a Neophyte battalion, 3 Abominants alone is enough for a SupCom detachment is probably strong), AT is no longer tight for Nids, and we may no longer be forced into Hive Guard every game, and as such can use SMA on something else for more Dakka. Double shooting Devilgants is the obvious choice especially since delivering them is getting the most out of one of the aforementioned units (150 pt Trygons).


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/09 10:51:59


Post by: Astmeister


Red Terror is now just 50 points. Can you use him in jormungandr to deliver stuff? He has the Ravener Keyword.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/09 15:51:19


Post by: stalkerzero


As a person who has been running double Tyrannofex, a Trygon, and the Swarmlord I couldn't be happier with these point drops.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 00:14:12


Post by: Spoletta


 SHUPPET wrote:
I think a big thing is between buffs to Trygons, Tyrannofexen, Harpies, and even Exocrine, while also receiving the addition of Abominants lately (even for people who don't want to paint up a Neophyte battalion, 3 Abominants alone is enough for a SupCom detachment is probably strong), AT is no longer tight for Nids, and we may no longer be forced into Hive Guard every game, and as such can use SMA on something else for more Dakka. Double shooting Devilgants is the obvious choice especially since delivering them is getting the most out of one of the aforementioned units (150 pt Trygons).


Don't forget the huge drop on the broodlord. At 115 he is a serious beatstick, it can open a dreadnaught in a single fight or die and kill it anyway for 2 CP.
All this while also providing synapse, psy support and buffs to stealers.

What i'm also really excited for are the lictors and deathleaper. At that cost you can have a vanguard detachment of DL + 5 lictors at 234 points.
That's quite cheap for the absurd amount of disruption it generates!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 00:21:50


Post by: Amishprn86


Whats the point of that Vanguard tho? Lictors still are only 3 attacks. They dont do anything but get in the way for 1/10 a turn. Even if you can charge a T3, 5+ save character with 5wounds, you cant kill it in 1 turn of combat, it will take 2 turns. Without anything stopping them being allow to fall back its nothing to walk away and shoot you, as you only have 4wounds 5+sv.

Now, if you wanted a Brigade, i can understand having them for +7CP, they can be used to charge tanks, and now they are somewhat "ok" but Pryvores would be better IMO, as they can counter Hordes a bit and you save 15pts for a Brigade.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 01:22:44


Post by: slave.entity


Spoletta wrote:


What i'm also really excited for are the lictors and deathleaper. At that cost you can have a vanguard detachment of DL + 5 lictors at 234 points.
That's quite cheap for the absurd amount of disruption it generates!


Yeah these guys are looking extremely fun right now. Especially the deathleaper.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 04:41:10


Post by: Arson Fire


Spoletta wrote:

What i'm also really excited for are the lictors and deathleaper. At that cost you can have a vanguard detachment of DL + 5 lictors at 234 points.
That's quite cheap for the absurd amount of disruption it generates!

Rule of 3 means 5 lictors aren't really going to make it into matched play. They're cheaper, but still 1 per slot.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 07:06:13


Post by: Spoletta


Arson Fire wrote:
Spoletta wrote:

What i'm also really excited for are the lictors and deathleaper. At that cost you can have a vanguard detachment of DL + 5 lictors at 234 points.
That's quite cheap for the absurd amount of disruption it generates!

Rule of 3 means 5 lictors aren't really going to make it into matched play. They're cheaper, but still 1 per slot.


...You are right

Too bad, i wanted to reenact our old formations



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 08:30:10


Post by: Eihnlazer


I was gonna take custodes, but decided to take nids to LVO instead. Pyrovores really need a box kit with biovores like hive guard get. spent way too much on the ones I bought.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 08:43:39


Post by: tneva82


 Insectum7 wrote:
It's a little controversial whether the cost is in the gun or the guy, but sure. My VCs are always Primed for a 3+, anyways. Still, you have a 30 point gun vs.a 12 point gun doing much the same task, essentially.


The special weapons etc should factor in BS for price(too bad GW is very lazy on that. IG with BS3/4 plasma/melta being prime difference). Reason being improved BS is much better on big gun than small gun. BS2+ matters lot more when you are fielding lascannon vs bolt pistol. It's cumulative effect. If it was on model's price you would have to price BS on best gun available and then imagine overprice if he carries laspistol...


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 09:22:47


Post by: Astmeister


Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 10:25:12


Post by: Eihnlazer


Astmeister you can.

One unit of ravenors and The Red Terror gives you decent real estate to bring in 3-5 units.

The ravenors give you about 16" and Red terror gives you another 7" so you can pile in a lot of stuff behind/infront of them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 10:26:08


Post by: Arson Fire


 Astmeister wrote:
Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

It's a little debatable. They FAQ'd 'The Enemy Below' so that it works based on keywords rather than units. Specifically RAVENERS, MAWLOC, TRYGON or TRYGON PRIME.
At a first glance you'd think this allows it to work with the Red Terror, since it has the RAVENER keyword. However do you consider that to be the same as the RAVENERS keyword? Pedantic maybe, but there you go.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 10:48:27


Post by: slave.entity


Arson Fire wrote:
 Astmeister wrote:
Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

It's a little debatable. They FAQ'd 'The Enemy Below' so that it works based on keywords rather than units. Specifically RAVENERS, MAWLOC, TRYGON or TRYGON PRIME.
At a first glance you'd think this allows it to work with the Red Terror, since it has the RAVENER keyword. However do you consider that to be the same as the RAVENERS keyword? Pedantic maybe, but there you go.


God. GW....

This came up in one of my discussions yesterday too... ugh.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 10:56:08


Post by: Spoletta


Arson Fire wrote:
 Astmeister wrote:
Can I again ask opinions whether or not we can use Red Terror as a cheap delivery service with Jormungandr?

It's a little debatable. They FAQ'd 'The Enemy Below' so that it works based on keywords rather than units. Specifically RAVENERS, MAWLOC, TRYGON or TRYGON PRIME.
At a first glance you'd think this allows it to work with the Red Terror, since it has the RAVENER keyword. However do you consider that to be the same as the RAVENERS keyword? Pedantic maybe, but there you go.


Oh come on, if we are really considering Ravener and RavenerS to be different keywords we cannot even blame it on GW, we are just making our own problems here.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 12:30:51


Post by: Astmeister


The thing with Ravener and Raveners also came to my mind.
Well if it would be possible to use the Red Terror, we had the cheapest delivery service with it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 13:15:40


Post by: Kitane


Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you.

Brood Telepathy buffs Genestealer units. We don't have Genestealer units in the codex, only GenestealerS units.

Alpha Warrior buffs Tyranid Warrior units, same as above.

For keywords in particular:

Old One Eye's aura affects CARNIFEX units. The Carnifexes datasheet has CARNIFEXES keyword.

And finally, The Red Terror's aura Feeding Frenzy buffs all RAVENER units. Guess what is on the datasheet for Raveners?
Yep, RAVENERS.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 13:17:49


Post by: SHUPPET


Kitane wrote:
Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you.

Brood Telepathy buffs Genestealer units. We don't have Genestealer units in the codex, only GenestealerS units.

Alpha Warrior buffs Tyranid Warrior units, same as above.

For keywords in particular:

Old One Eye's aura affects CARNIFEX units. The Carnifexes datasheet has CARNIFEXES keyword.

And finally, The Red Terror's aura Feeding Frenzy buffs all RAVENER units. Guess what is on the datasheet for Raveners?
Yep, RAVENERS.

yeah, that's this one put to rest


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 13:49:21


Post by: admironheart


Kitane wrote:
Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you..


exalted!!!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 18:57:10


Post by: Arson Fire


Excellent. I had to bring it up, as it's important to know about these sorts of issues that others may try to spring on you, so that counter-arguments can be developed and spread. Good to see that there is a compelling counter to this one


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/10 19:08:53


Post by: slave.entity


Kitane wrote:
Just laugh at whoever tries to pull that on you.

Brood Telepathy buffs Genestealer units. We don't have Genestealer units in the codex, only GenestealerS units.

Alpha Warrior buffs Tyranid Warrior units, same as above.

For keywords in particular:

Old One Eye's aura affects CARNIFEX units. The Carnifexes datasheet has CARNIFEXES keyword.

And finally, The Red Terror's aura Feeding Frenzy buffs all RAVENER units. Guess what is on the datasheet for Raveners?
Yep, RAVENERS.


Phew ok, excellent.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 03:37:13


Post by: admironheart


Just received my Malanthrope.....woot.

Now I can build the army that I want. heehee


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 08:47:41


Post by: First Among Gators


Hey Tyranid community, first post on here. I have a 2 day 1850pt tournament on the weekend (pre-CA rules).

Taking this:

Kraken Battalion
Flyrant, Wings, 4x Devourers, -1 to hit Relic
Malanthrope

18x Genestealers
5x Genestealer
10x Hormagant

6x Hive Guard

3x Carnifex, 4x Devourers, Enhanced Senses, Bone Mace, Adrenal Glands


Kronos Battalion

Flyrant, Wings, 4x Devourers
Flyrant, Wings, 4x Devourers

3x Rippers
3x Rippers
10x Termagants




Plan is to just get Hive Guard into position and then put an aggressive Devourer+Malanthrope gunline up the field and shoot everything to pieces. A nice spread of different troops should give me the right tools to do whatever is required that match (likely just screening the gunline), and of course one full unit of Genestealers for rip and tearing and all the tricks that come with them.

I've used a similar list at 2k points to success and I actually think it may be even stronger at 1850, although I had to drop some Hormagants and a fex. Hopefully I have enough there to stop the front lines getting swarmed by CC dudes, though I think with this many devourers I should only need a turn or so of shooting to at least thin them far enough that my bubble/wall of bugs can't get surrounded and locked in CC, especially with Flyrants being able to fall back for free. I'll let you guys know how it goes.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 10:02:56


Post by: Eihnlazer


Why are the hive guard not in the kronos detachment for the reroll 1's in shooting? Also one unit of 5 genestealers is bad bad bad. Just take a unit of rippers and bring your first stealer squad up to 20 strong.


Your kraken Flyrant should also have Monstrous rending claws and a toxin sac upgrade over double devourers. He's actually quite good at taking out flyers that way. You have way too much shooting at no AP. You'll do basically nothing to 2+ armor saves.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 10:44:49


Post by: First Among Gators


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why are the hive guard not in the kronos detachment for the reroll 1's in shooting? Also one unit of 5 genestealers is bad bad bad. Just take a unit of rippers and bring your first stealer squad up to 20 strong.


Your kraken Flyrant should also have Monstrous rending claws and a toxin sac upgrade over double devourers. He's actually quite good at taking out flyers that way. You have way too much shooting at no AP. You'll do basically nothing to 2+ armor saves.

Because sometimes you need to run the Hive Guard first turn and you don't want them caught out. Other people discussed it in here recently actually! 5 Genestealers aren't bad bad bad at all, they are the fastest obsec unit we have, that can also actually fight other troops off objectives, or contribute more blades to a melee blob if needed. I want more units on the field I do not want a third unit of Rippers, 5 Stealers are a swiss army knife that can direct a bit of extra force wherever needed or really do any other role quite well that any troop can. I notice its actually getting more and more popular as a choice.

The second half is a good point. But I don't want to assault with Flyrants I personally find it's never worth it, especially when it's just them in their on their own. I was considering taking an Exocrine, seeing as I already have a Malanthrope, or maybe even just more, though there's only so many that can hide at once. I may just try brute force through the 2+'s, they aren't that common around here.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 17:54:23


Post by: SIKAMIKA


 First Among Gators wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Why are the hive guard not in the kronos detachment for the reroll 1's in shooting? Also one unit of 5 genestealers is bad bad bad. Just take a unit of rippers and bring your first stealer squad up to 20 strong.


Your kraken Flyrant should also have Monstrous rending claws and a toxin sac upgrade over double devourers. He's actually quite good at taking out flyers that way. You have way too much shooting at no AP. You'll do basically nothing to 2+ armor saves.

Because sometimes you need to run the Hive Guard first turn and you don't want them caught out. Other people discussed it in here recently actually! 5 Genestealers aren't bad bad bad at all, they are the fastest obsec unit we have, that can also actually fight other troops off objectives, or contribute more blades to a melee blob if needed. I want more units on the field I do not want a third unit of Rippers, 5 Stealers are a swiss army knife that can direct a bit of extra force wherever needed or really do any other role quite well that any troop can. I notice its actually getting more and more popular as a choice.

The second half is a good point. But I don't want to assault with Flyrants I personally find it's never worth it, especially when it's just them in their on their own. I was considering taking an Exocrine, seeing as I already have a Malanthrope, or maybe even just more, though there's only so many that can hide at once. I may just try brute force through the 2+'s, they aren't that common around here.


You really WANT to assault with your flyrants! TRUST me!! i am always bringing 3 Kraken flyrants with devs and rending claws and they do all the job when assaulting...devourers are really pathetic and work only on t3 infantry sometimes also if you are deepstiking them dont forget to upgrade with adrenal glants!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 20:36:42


Post by: Drager


Anyone else thinking the Exocrine is going to be great at 170?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/11 21:22:31


Post by: Eldarain


A Kronos Exocrine definitely will be appearing in my lists now.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/12 16:09:41


Post by: Xenomancers


He looks good but it's a very boring unit.

I really more excited about tyranofex with acid spray.

FIXED ERROR* See below.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/12 20:54:24


Post by: Astmeister


The Tyrannofex dropped by 30 points AFAIK.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/12 21:04:37


Post by: Xenomancers


 Astmeister wrote:
The Tyrannofex dropped by 30 points AFAIK.

Oh it did! 151 from 181. Okay so it is actually really nice now. With acid spray it's only 189 now.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 02:20:59


Post by: admironheart


I plan on using the Rupture cannon as a sit back artillery hiding on one side of terrain on a far flank. Let the enemy maneuver to shoot me than I can shoot back without moving.

Any good tactics for the Rupture Cannon or targets?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 13:09:26


Post by: Astmeister


The rapture Canon was only worth it before against t8 targets in comparison to the exocrine. Now it is even worse, since the crine dropped by more points than the Tyrannofex.
It just makes sense from rule of cool perspective.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 13:21:05


Post by: SHUPPET


 Astmeister wrote:
The rapture Canon was only worth it before against t8 targets in comparison to the exocrine. Now it is even worse, since the crine dropped by more points than the Tyrannofex.
It just makes sense from rule of cool perspective.


T8 is more popular than ever and also a problem for us usually 48" range is a blessing when all the biggest targets often hit that far or more. Might still be worth it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 13:33:35


Post by: Astmeister


Yeah i also like the fex with rapture. Just saying that the Exocrine is a tough competition.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 15:21:03


Post by: Spoletta


I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 15:35:29


Post by: SHUPPET


Spoletta wrote:
I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

co-sign, they look really strong now but i'm not using that model


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 15:44:05


Post by: Eihnlazer


Kraken pyrovores are great. People aren't used to seeing them, so they tend to underestimate them. They make a great bodyguard for your characters and if your opponent ignores them they are quite nasty. Also very useful for cleaning up those annoying scout units.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 16:02:51


Post by: Xenomancers


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Kraken pyrovores are great. People aren't used to seeing them, so they tend to underestimate them. They make a great bodyguard for your characters and if your opponent ignores them they are quite nasty. Also very useful for cleaning up those annoying scout units.

Yeah they seem great but basically require converted models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What the heck is up with malecptors?
How can such bad rules exist?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 17:09:10


Post by: Eihnlazer


Maleceptor is a fun concept, but it needs a few tweaks.

Make it WS3, BS5, St5, T6, W8, A4, Mv9, Sv4+

Give it a 5++ invun from barrier, shadow in the warp, psycher.

Make it only know smite and its own special power which is the 12" d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ to every unit. It also cannot deny.

Give it acid maw and Ravenous Maw for melee weapons. Also make Ravenous Maw a 3 shot pistol with 6" range.

Ravenous Maw gives you D3 attacks for every base attack you make with it and is Str4 ap-1, heals it for every model it kills.


Cost it like 95 points and you have a fun unit.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 18:41:41


Post by: Strat_N8


Umm... that is strictly worse than the current rules for it. You're trading -2S, -1T, -4W, -1 on both armor and invul, the ability to deny, +1 to casting attempts, and Massive Scything Talons for +1 WS, +2Mv, lower strength melee weapons (one of which was stolen from the fellow Elite Haruspex - its kinda its defined by its Maw dontcha know?), a side-grade on Psychic Overload (can hit more targets and does more wounds but is far less reliable), and a 65 point cost reduction.

Honestly I have used my Malceptor a bit in 8th and it did fine apart from one game where it got 1-rounded on the first turn (even still, it took ALL of the opposing army to kill it). It isn't great in melee against squads but it does have the same can-opener talons as a Trygon for taking on transports and does have a 4+ invulnerable to protect it. The main problem I've had is just it is a giant target since people are more scared of its mortal wounds bubble than they really ought to be (it is really only dangerous for MSU where it can tag the full 6 units and each kill hurts more). That and I only have 1 and it would really rather be run in pairs or trios to maximize on its capabilities.

Should also add, I saw the Toxicrene got a nice cost drop too. It already felt decent for its price before whenever I used mine, so I'll be looking forward to seeing if it starts making an appearance in some competitive lists at the new price point.




Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 18:44:08


Post by: Eihnlazer


Ahh sorry, I forgot I would have also given it character trait.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 19:10:52


Post by: Xenomancers


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Umm... that is strictly worse than the current rules for it.

Honestly I have used my Malceptor a bit in 8th and it did fine apart from one game where it got 1-rounded on the first turn (even still, it took ALL of the opposing army to kill it). It isn't great in melee against squads but it does have the same can-opener talons as a Trygon for taking on transports and does have a 4+ invulnerable to protect it. The main problem I've had is just it is a giant target since people are more scared of its mortal wounds bubble than they really ought to be (it is really only dangerous for MSU where it can tag the full 6 units and each kill hurts more). That and I only have 1 and it would really rather be run in pairs or trios to maximize on its capabilities.

Should also add, I saw the Toxicrene got a nice cost drop too. It already felt decent for its price before whenever I used mine, so I'll be looking forward to seeing if it starts making an appearance in some competitive lists at the new price point.



With both swarmy and Toxicrine going down - I think we might see some toxicrine action. Apart from it's very impressive melle (6 str 7 ap -2 d3 damage attacks that reroll wounds) It also has very potent short range shooting and 1 of them can be shot like a pistol in CC. Plus it deals mortals in 3 different ways.

I play with it just cause it's fun now - but I've considered it in competitive lists too. Something that you might have missed if you just glanced at it is that when it explodes it does 3 flat mortals. Basically anytime it explodes in combat it makes up it's points.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 19:28:37


Post by: Arson Fire


Toxicrene is interesting. One concern I have with it is that degradation hits it hard. When it drops a profile it loses in 3 melee stats. Not much else does that.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 19:28:47


Post by: Strat_N8


 Xenomancers wrote:

Something that you might have missed if you just glanced at it is that when it explodes it does 3 flat mortals. Basically anytime it explodes in combat it makes up it's points.


Yep, the Haruspex has the same Frenzied version of the explodes rule (both incidentally also have acid blood). The poor old Haruspex might be worth giving a look over again too. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for them.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 19:41:41


Post by: Xenomancers


 Strat_N8 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Something that you might have missed if you just glanced at it is that when it explodes it does 3 flat mortals. Basically anytime it explodes in combat it makes up it's points.


Yep, the Haruspex has the same Frenzied version of the explodes rule (both incidentally also have acid blood). The poor old Haruspex might be worth giving a look over again too. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for them.


Me too - It just feels so Niddy that I want to like it. Hitting on 4's is garbage though. The first few times I played it I rolled really good and got high on it. After that I realized it's just not very good offensively - which is sad for a 200ish point dedicated melle unit. He did drop some but his main competition is the toxicrine who also went down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arson Fire wrote:
Toxicrene is interesting. One concern I have with it is that degradation hits it hard. When it drops a profile it loses in 3 melee stats. Not much else does that.
Well that is true - they can't just ignore it because it shoots pretty good too. You basically want this thing to die anyways and pray for epic explosions.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 19:46:55


Post by: BlaxicanX


Anyone have any ideas for a fun melee list at 1500 points? I just need a solid core to get started with really, I'm new to nids this edition.

It's almost exclusively hordes in my local meta.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 19:51:32


Post by: Xenomancers


 BlaxicanX wrote:
Anyone have any ideas for a fun melee list at 1500 points? It's almost exclusively hordes in my local meta.

Toxicrines and haruspex will do great in that environment. Give that a shot. Also Trygon + hormagaunts with adrenal glands sounds fun.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 21:27:41


Post by: Badablack


Maleceptors have done some work for me in the past, especially when run with Hive Tyrants. I run them Kraken, with the double move strat you can usually get them wherever you want for max carnage. Either the AoE or smite/shriek.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 21:34:24


Post by: Cephalobeard


Well yeah but isn't that just worse than using genestealers in almost every conceivable way?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 21:37:09


Post by: Xenomancers


 Cephalobeard wrote:
Well yeah but isn't that just worse than using genestealers in almost every conceivable way?

Well...Geensteelers don't put shadow in the warp and a deny in place. I totally agree with you though - the total damage is going to be low.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 22:03:42


Post by: Badablack


Which is why you would run them both, use the double advance stratagem on the genestealers, and have 2 units in the enemy’s face turn 1.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 22:07:46


Post by: Astmeister


How about the cheaper tyrannocytes? I even consider bringing them with VCs for extra anti tank. Is it worth it and what to transport in it?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/13 22:44:10


Post by: Insectum7


 SHUPPET wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

co-sign, they look really strong now but i'm not using that model

I keep looking at Tyranid Warriors, or possibly Hive Guard, plus some spare biocannons I have from a Tyrannocyte. I'm not too keen on the current for Biovore/Pyrovore models, and I'd like a few.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 00:28:28


Post by: Eihnlazer


Yeah I had to just bite the bullet and buy the pyrovores. 6 hive guard and 9 pyrovores ate up $500ish but since im going to LVO I actually need to use the real things since im not gonna buy the Chinese stuff.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 06:21:37


Post by: Spoletta


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Maleceptor is a fun concept, but it needs a few tweaks.

Make it WS3, BS5, St5, T6, W8, A4, Mv9, Sv4+

Give it a 5++ invun from barrier, shadow in the warp, psycher.

Make it only know smite and its own special power which is the 12" d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ to every unit. It also cannot deny.

Give it acid maw and Ravenous Maw for melee weapons. Also make Ravenous Maw a 3 shot pistol with 6" range.

Ravenous Maw gives you D3 attacks for every base attack you make with it and is Str4 ap-1, heals it for every model it kills.


Cost it like 95 points and you have a fun unit.


Maleceptor is hugely underestimated.

I run him regularly, and he is getting almost banned in non-competitive matches

Play leviathan and put that thing turn 1 into your opponent face with a big psy blow. Won't do a lot of damage, 4-5 MWs usually, but then they have this huge thing with SitW and deny stuck into the deploy zone which is a real pain to take down. For it's cost it has always given me huge satisfactions. Now that it also dropped in price, i'm seriously thinking about playing 3 in a competitive list.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 06:45:29


Post by: Amishprn86


Really? I played it twice, my friend a few times, and even when it got in range, it did almost nothing. I wont even play it at all, there is no point to.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 06:56:24


Post by: Spoletta


It's a disruption beast, doing damage is a bonus for her.

That said, maybe it works just because my leviathan lists avoid having any good target for the enemy. I like high durability in that list.
If you have any high obvious high priority target like a flyrant, Maleceptor will hardly work. It's not her kind of list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 SHUPPET wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

co-sign, they look really strong now but i'm not using that model


Found this https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/195143-Conversion,%20Pyrovore,%20Tyranids.html


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 17:52:19


Post by: Xenomancers


I would consider bringing 1 but not 3. I am pretty sure I am going to be running Zoans though.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 18:24:59


Post by: Insectum7


Spoletta wrote:


Maleceptor is hugely underestimated.

I run him regularly, and he is getting almost banned in non-competitive matches

Play leviathan and put that thing turn 1 into your opponent face with a big psy blow. Won't do a lot of damage, 4-5 MWs usually, but then they have this huge thing with SitW and deny stuck into the deploy zone which is a real pain to take down. For it's cost it has always given me huge satisfactions. Now that it also dropped in price, i'm seriously thinking about playing 3 in a competitive list.


That's really satisfying to read. I do like the concept of the model a lot, and it seems to have some juicy niche uses.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 18:38:32


Post by: Tyran


The Maleceptor still needs a considerable range increase to Psychic Overload. That is my main problem with it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 18:47:40


Post by: Xenomancers


Tyran wrote:
The Maleceptor still needs a considerable range increase to Psychic Overload. That is my main problem with it.

Yeah...compare it to a Necron Trans Ctan (yeah necrons are just terrible). He can pick a 9" aura of d3 mortals to every unit in range on a 4+. It ether goes off on a 2+ or automatically - don't remember. It's a lot better than the malceptor though. He has a 4++ and actual close combat ability to - plus hes a character with 8 wound so can't just be shot down off the table ether.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 20:41:27


Post by: Spoletta


The TCtans don't cost 150 points, don't have SitW and don't deny enemy powers.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 20:52:46


Post by: Xenomancers


Spoletta wrote:
The TCtans don't cost 150 points, don't have SitW and don't deny enemy powers.

They also can't be denied themselves. That kind of overrules that. Plus It's three times as effective in CC with better powers and is untargetable to shooting. Yeah it costs 50 more points but if these units are to scale then Ctan should be 350 points. It's pretty clear the Maleceptor should be like...100 points or less compared to the ctan at 200 points.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 21:22:12


Post by: SHUPPET


Yeah that's a pretty solid comparison and really highlights that the Maleceptor is not that great.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 22:04:32


Post by: Astmeister


Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 23:04:08


Post by: Tyran


 Astmeister wrote:
Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.


Now if only it didn't have a gak range. The Maleceptor is fine in general, its only real problem is that Overload is a poor ability because gak range, and the entire point of the monster is the overload.





Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 23:10:19


Post by: nordsturmking


Since the Neuro is now 90p. I will test Maleceptor again. since it is as tough as a Hive Tyrant every shot at it is not hitting my Tyrant.

pros:
Psychic Overload can't be denied.
one more deny per turn.
more then double the hp
T7
way better melee


Neurothrope:
pros:
CSR
better inv. save
fly rule





you can denie the psychic powers but not Psychic Overload. which does 1.33 wounds to very unit in range. and since the neuro is now 90p the maleceptor seems not so bad. I am going to test it. the neuro can cast two psychis powers and denie one. so the maleceptor


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/14 23:11:27


Post by: Xenomancers


 Astmeister wrote:
Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.

But it would be out of range - so that makes no sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 nordsturmking wrote:
Since the Neuro is now 90p. I will test Maleceptor again. since it is as tough as a Hive Tyrant every shot at it is not hitting my Tyrant.

pros:
Psychic Overload can't be denied.
one more deny per turn.
more then double the hp
T7
way better melee


Neurothrope:
pros:
CSR
better inv. save
fly rule





you can denie the psychic powers but not Psychic Overload. which does 1.33 wounds to very unit in range. and since the neuro is now 90p the maleceptor seems not so bad. I am going to test it. the neuro can cast two psychis powers and denie one. so the maleceptor

I suppose it doesn't give -1 to smites ether when you use tendrels. So that is another advatage. It's biggest draw back is it is not an HQ IMO.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 01:10:33


Post by: Badablack


Maleceptors really shine against the sorts of things templates used to be great for, namely bunched up armies full of buffing units. A Maleceptor will absolutely disrupt a Tau gunline, with all the drones, special characters and separate units it needs to work, and they can’t shunt off wounds to drones because it happens in the psychic phase.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 04:01:00


Post by: admironheart


I don't have the FW book, just Chapter Approved. Does the Grasping Talon of the Malanthrope cost any points? or is it just a flat 140 points for the single unit?


thanks


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 05:24:44


Post by: BlaxicanX


What are our most reliable forms of AT?

For example into wanted to pop something like a knight or leman russ ASAP and its being bubblewrapped by hordes, do we have any shooting that consistently drop it within a turn or two?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 05:50:58


Post by: Spoletta


To remove a LR in a single phase you need 2 rupture TFexes or 5 shock guards in double fire.

Against the knight only the shockguards will do.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 05:54:55


Post by: Badablack


I’m going to have a bunch of games tomorrow, and I’m gonna try out 6 hive guard with shock cannons in a tyrannocyte with venom cannons. Maximum anti-tank!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 06:14:19


Post by: Amishprn86


 Astmeister wrote:
Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.


And Point for Point Zoanthropes are better in everyway but Toughness, they do more MW's, Fly, same wounds, 3++ vs 4++


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 06:45:09


Post by: First Among Gators


Just an update, took first place at my city's annual tournament, undefeated with most battle points. Pre-CA points (and will mark the final games we play by that ruleset), with a condensed system of ITC scoring.

Here was my final list:

Spoiler:
Kraken Battalion
Flyrant, Wings, 2x Devourers, MRC, Toxin Sacs, -1 to hit Relic
Malanthrope

18x Genestealers
5x Genestealer
19x Hormagant

6x Hive Guard

3x Carnifex, 4x Devourers, Enhanced Senses, Bone Mace, Adrenal Glands


Kraken Battalion

Flyrant, Wings, 2x Devourers, MRC, Toxin Sacs
Flyrant, Wings, 2x Devourers, MRC, Toxin Sacs

3x Rippers
3x Rippers
10x Termagants


I took the advice and made the Flyrant's have MRC and Toxin Sacs to get more AP, and I think that was the right call, as I did need to be able to threaten some sort of armour piercing offense with something other than Hive Guard, and it gave me the points to me thicken out the Hormagants to a better size as well which also had an impact. It did however, leave me with a constant play decision of whether or not to fly out of the Malanthrope bubble to push into CC, and I will say though it hurt a lot when I left the Malanthrope bubble to flap up and charge vs Guard, and then 2 out of 3 failed their charges and got unsurprisingly scoped in on by everything the next turn... :(

I don't know if the list was perfect. More board control might be nice. Finding the points to fit a second larger unit of Horms would probably be ideal, though the 5x man Genestealer unit that they would replace did everything it needed to.

I'm not going to overthink what I could have done to improve it, I'm just going to go from this point, onwards into the new Chapter Approved changes for 2019. Mobile Malanthrope gunline is fun, and my opponent's stated that they found that brick of bugs very intimidating to deal with, and the results have been great. Battlescribe updates this weekend I believe, so I'll work out what's next for my Hive Fleet in 2019 once I can play around with it in that.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 07:20:45


Post by: Badablack


Hope you weren’t applying the malanthrope buff to the Kronos Tyrants, that dog won’t hunt.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 07:54:38


Post by: First Among Gators


 Badablack wrote:
Hope you weren’t applying the malanthrope buff to the Kronos Tyrants, that dog won’t hunt.


eek, fixed, good eye. The list was copy pasted and edited from my original, forgot to update that part (both battalions are Kraken). Kronos did nothing for me at all in play testing. I don't think it would have done much for me today either.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 09:06:50


Post by: slave.entity


 First Among Gators wrote:
Just an update, took first place at my city's annual tournament, undefeated with most battle points. Pre-CA points (and will mark the final games we play by that ruleset), with a condensed system of ITC scoring.

Here was my final list:

Spoiler:
Kraken Battalion
Flyrant, Wings, 2x Devourers, MRC, Toxin Sacs, -1 to hit Relic
Malanthrope

18x Genestealers
5x Genestealer
19x Hormagant

6x Hive Guard

3x Carnifex, 4x Devourers, Enhanced Senses, Bone Mace, Adrenal Glands


Kraken Battalion

Flyrant, Wings, 2x Devourers, MRC, Toxin Sacs
Flyrant, Wings, 2x Devourers, MRC, Toxin Sacs

3x Rippers
3x Rippers
10x Termagants


I took the advice and made the Flyrant's have MRC and Toxin Sacs to get more AP, and I think that was the right call, as I did need to be able to threaten some sort of armour piercing offense with something other than Hive Guard, and it gave me the points to me thicken out the Hormagants to a better size as well which also had an impact. It did however, leave me with a constant play decision of whether or not to fly out of the Malanthrope bubble to push into CC, and I will say though it hurt a lot when I left the Malanthrope bubble to flap up and charge vs Guard, and then 2 out of 3 failed their charges and got unsurprisingly scoped in on by everything the next turn... :(

I don't know if the list was perfect. More board control might be nice. Finding the points to fit a second larger unit of Horms would probably be ideal, though the 5x man Genestealer unit that they would replace did everything it needed to.

I'm not going to overthink what I could have done to improve it, I'm just going to go from this point, onwards into the new Chapter Approved changes for 2019. Mobile Malanthrope gunline is fun, and my opponent's stated that they found that brick of bugs very intimidating to deal with, and the results have been great. Battlescribe updates this weekend I believe, so I'll work out what's next for my Hive Fleet in 2019 once I can play around with it in that.


Congrats on the win. Awesome list btw, glad to see it worked out. Malanthropes are sweet.

How did you protect yourself from charges? Did your opponents end up castling?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 14:04:48


Post by: First Among Gators


I screened heavily with Horms and Termagants and even Genestealers at times, and put Flyrants in front the bubble who can punch back, and also fall out right after if the need be. I had a real toolbox of troop choices, and I just used it to be flexible and adapted to the match up.

The ball is fast. Kraken AG Dakkafexes are moving up to 14, Flyrants do a natural 16. I recall I broke through a Guard player's wall and started taking his objectives in very short order. The defensive play actually felt easier for that reason, it was the objectives behind me that I didn't feel fully confident I was able to fortify, as the bug bubble doesn't really want to split up or slow down. However I just strung Genestealers and Horms around to make ends meet, blocking space, holding objectives and piling them into units all at the same time, once again just playing them however the match up required (which includes sometimes just rushing them in to nom). I think that's the real finesse with Nids, and something I am improving at as I play more.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/15 22:14:50


Post by: admironheart


I want to run the same thing.....But I envision it more as an octopus than a ball......what with units stretched out.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 00:52:09


Post by: Strat_N8


 Amishprn86 wrote:

And Point for Point Zoanthropes are better in everyway but Toughness, they do more MW's, Fly, same wounds, 3++ vs 4++


To be fair, with the Malceptor you're also getting a S7 monstrous creature with Massive Scything Talons and +1 to casting rolls. It has a much more aggressive gameplan than Zoanthropes, who would very much rather lurk behind a wall of gaunts than mix things up at the very front line. Also comes down to which one helps with threat saturation more. Zoanthropes really want to be run with a gribbly swarm to reduce the amount of high-rate-of-fire guns pointed at them, while the Malceptor likes running alongside other monsters who appreciate that the big lug can tank the occasional lascannon shot with its invulnerable save and keep going.




Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 01:34:13


Post by: Amishprn86


 Strat_N8 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:

And Point for Point Zoanthropes are better in everyway but Toughness, they do more MW's, Fly, same wounds, 3++ vs 4++


To be fair, with the Malceptor you're also getting a S7 monstrous creature with Massive Scything Talons and +1 to casting rolls. It has a much more aggressive gameplan than Zoanthropes, who would very much rather lurk behind a wall of gaunts than mix things up at the very front line. Also comes down to which one helps with threat saturation more. Zoanthropes really want to be run with a gribbly swarm to reduce the amount of high-rate-of-fire guns pointed at them, while the Malceptor likes running alongside other monsters who appreciate that the big lug can tank the occasional lascannon shot with its invulnerable save and keep going.




Its melee will only get 1 through most the time, not something i relay on, if i want powers for damage i'm taking Zoans as they are more damage and more relayable, if i want a Melee monster in your face with powers, i'll take Swarmlord and Tyrants.

1 MW to a few units and maybe 1 D6 damage hitting attack all within melee range on a 7" walker, isnt that good. It only went down 12pts. It wasnt worth it with the +12 points its not wroth it now.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 02:44:00


Post by: Badablack


Got a couple games in with the changes, pyrovores definitely do some work now. Tyrannocytes are surprisingly useful for wandering around the battlefield being obnoxious flying machine guns. And broodlords are actually fieldable.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 03:49:00


Post by: Traceoftoxin


With CA going into effect, GSC right around the corner, and knights still being very meta relevant, I was thinking about trying this out;

Kraken Battalion
Malanthrope (Warlord, -1 to hit relic, unit within 6" always fights first trait)
Broodlord (The horror)

3x20 GS (Max acid maw)

Kraken Battalion
Broodlord (Onslaught)
Broodlord (Catalyst)

2x30 Hormagants
1x3 Rippers

GSC Battalion
Patriarch (Hypnosis)
Patriarch (Mind control)

3x10 Neophytes

Idea is basically to use the -1 to hit aura and the two debuffs to cripple fliers/big shooters, and use 18 CP to completely overwhelm an enemy line by turn 2. Double move a horm unit, double advance a GS unit, onslaught another horm unit. Rippers/neophytes can grab backfield obs. Deny any good targets for strong AT weaponry and make large chunks of enemy forces inefficient.

Could move points around to try to do a GSC purestrain unit instead of 3 normal GS. Could swap rippers and bring down horm units to 26 to get about 20 termagants to just take up space in my deployment zone.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 07:53:57


Post by: Eihnlazer


never thought i'd see a 5 broodlord list...…….

Thematically its great, but you'll litterally never be able to bring it all to bear. enemy will just spend 2 turns killing all your stealers and trying to get at your HQ's then you wont have any damage.


If they only have shooting you will win since you'll have them tied up, but if they have melee as well you'll be in trouble.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 17:09:14


Post by: Traceoftoxin


 Eihnlazer wrote:
never thought i'd see a 5 broodlord list...…….

Thematically its great, but you'll litterally never be able to bring it all to bear. enemy will just spend 2 turns killing all your stealers and trying to get at your HQ's then you wont have any damage.


If they only have shooting you will win since you'll have them tied up, but if they have melee as well you'll be in trouble.


That's a pretty simplistic analysis, and not really an argument in good faith.

My normal tournament list is super similar. In basically every game I've always found myself thinking, "Man, I wish I had another 20 stealers", but always prescribed to a balanced list approach so never brought more than 2x20. I've never had an issue getting 60 horms and 40 GS into the mix, and I don't predict I'll have an issue making another 20 GS work in a climate where people are bringing more AT than ever to deal with the knight heavy meta.

In this meta, I'm pretty confident this list will do well. Not because it's going to table opponents, but because it will win on objectives almost every time out. My only major concerns would be double fire raptor+guilleman lists, as they'll stay supersonic and block movement, then they'll hover and by then I'll probably be toast (unless I can mind control and use one to smoke the other), or another horde melee army as that will come down to timing for who screens more effectively. Though I think with 60 horms I should be able to properly screen, and the kraken WL trait allows me 2 interrupts. Knights will lose to this pretty consistently, Custode bikers with rule of 3 and fly changes are not nearly as dangerous, Disintegrators are not particularly effective. Tau fire warrior spam could be rough, but mass hypnosis and smart charging with horms can completely shut that down.

I'm just thinking based off of how the game is currently playing with no reserves turn 1. It feels like a jorm-MC gunbeast list or a horde list are our strongest options. My experience and your statement are at odds. The mechanics of 8th really favor fearless hordes, several tournaments in 8th have been won abusing this type of mechanic (Though ynnari being perfect for ITC scoring remains an issue for every army in most GTs). Often the winner at any given large GT is one of a pool of great players with viable lists, who happened to avoid a specific unfavorable match up and leveraged a small list advantage with great play and a smidge of luck to take a win.

I could also swap 20 GS to 30 devourer gants for screen clearing ability, though I typically like to use screens against the opponent to keep myself locked in combat. Or mix it up and somehow to 2 units of like 15 fleshborers, 10 dev or something like that for more board saturation and some more shooting.





Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 21:42:07


Post by: addnid


Come on the maleceptor is stil way worse than a walkrant. Same durability, maleceptor has a really bad ability and +1 to smite. Walkrant hits on 2+ In CC, can take a now cheapish HVC, knows two spells, is an hq so unlocks stuff, the list goes on...
Maleceptor is good in restrained formats where ie rule of 2 replaces rule of three (I have such a tourney coming up) and you have already 2 tyrants coming up. And if you want lots of 4++.
But honestly for me with acid fex at 184 or exocrine at 170, maleceptor went comparatively down on the ladder of our bestiary. I really don’t see how anyone can be hyped by the thing.
I love the model I painted and based with much care and love, so I would like to believe in it too !


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 23:14:28


Post by: Eihnlazer


Trace I can definitely see how the list can hang around. It does have tons of bodies that can cover the table and sit on objectives but Shield captains utterly devastate it. If synapse wasn't so easy to take out then it would be a fantastic list, but even hiding behind bodies the Broodlord profile is not hard to kill off. 27 T5 wounds with a 4+/5++ is very easy to get through and then your snynapse is gone. With snipers on the rise, and shield captains on the tables they wont last the whole game unless you get super lucky with smiting.


I'd much rather have nuerothropes, which can rerolls 1's for psychic checks, have a 3++ and can heal. Basically, for the roll your using them, broodlords are wasted even with the points cuts.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/16 23:36:37


Post by: Traceoftoxin


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Trace I can definitely see how the list can hang around. It does have tons of bodies that can cover the table and sit on objectives but Shield captains utterly devastate it. If synapse wasn't so easy to take out then it would be a fantastic list, but even hiding behind bodies the Broodlord profile is not hard to kill off. 27 T5 wounds with a 4+/5++ is very easy to get through and then your snynapse is gone. With snipers on the rise, and shield captains on the tables they wont last the whole game unless you get super lucky with smiting.


I'd much rather have nuerothropes, which can rerolls 1's for psychic checks, have a 3++ and can heal. Basically, for the roll your using them, broodlords are wasted even with the points cuts.


My experience very much differs. I have not found three shield captains to be particularly scary. My experience is that they get completely wrecked by weight of attacks and with the fly changes can struggle to get to the targets they need to.

Broodlords are extremely squishy, but it's really not hard to screen them when you have 145 other models on the board all moving in the same direction. Honestly it will be much harder to keep the Malanthrope screened. Snipers aren't exactly that efficient for killing T5 characters. Take an average of what, like 18 sniper hits to kill a single broodlord.

The reason for the broodlords is because they can kill knights. They average 7 damage each vs a castellan. They hit harder than Tyrants in CC. They average 3-6 damage vs shield captains (Patriarchs being S6 do better), so a pair can reliably take one out on the charge. If you get interrupted and lose one, you can spend the 2CP to swing anyways.

Swapping a broodlord for a neurothrope is definitely a legit idea though. Being able to bring a smite in addition to the needed power and then being able to spend 1cp to get a smite from a broodlord would be immensely useful vs things like shield captains. Two broodlords is more than enough to keep the buff out. I could also swap a broodlord for a magus+abominant for the hammer which I think is probably statistically more damage vs Knights but would have to double check.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/17 00:07:51


Post by: Timeshadow


 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Trace I can definitely see how the list can hang around. It does have tons of bodies that can cover the table and sit on objectives but Shield captains utterly devastate it. If synapse wasn't so easy to take out then it would be a fantastic list, but even hiding behind bodies the Broodlord profile is not hard to kill off. 27 T5 wounds with a 4+/5++ is very easy to get through and then your snynapse is gone. With snipers on the rise, and shield captains on the tables they wont last the whole game unless you get super lucky with smiting.


I'd much rather have nuerothropes, which can rerolls 1's for psychic checks, have a 3++ and can heal. Basically, for the roll your using them, broodlords are wasted even with the points cuts.


My experience very much differs. I have not found three shield captains to be particularly scary. My experience is that they get completely wrecked by weight of attacks and with the fly changes can struggle to get to the targets they need to.

Broodlords are extremely squishy, but it's really not hard to screen them when you have 145 other models on the board all moving in the same direction. Honestly it will be much harder to keep the Malanthrope screened. Snipers aren't exactly that efficient for killing T5 characters. Take an average of what, like 18 sniper hits to kill a single broodlord.

The reason for the broodlords is because they can kill knights. They average 7 damage each vs a castellan. They hit harder than Tyrants in CC. They average 3-6 damage vs shield captains (Patriarchs being S6 do better), so a pair can reliably take one out on the charge. If you get interrupted and lose one, you can spend the 2CP to swing anyways.

Swapping a broodlord for a neurothrope is definitely a legit idea though. Being able to bring a smite in addition to the needed power and then being able to spend 1cp to get a smite from a broodlord would be immensely useful vs things like shield captains. Two broodlords is more than enough to keep the buff out. I could also swap a broodlord for a magus+abominant for the hammer which I think is probably statistically more damage vs Knights but would have to double check.



I would definitely suggest transfuring to 20 Purestrains and try to get an iconward (for +1S) and a prumus for Cult ambush shanagins. Getting a 2nd turn ambush off with 80 S 5-6 atts hitting on 2+ would be brutal.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/17 04:04:08


Post by: First Among Gators


 Traceoftoxin wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
never thought i'd see a 5 broodlord list...…….

Thematically its great, but you'll litterally never be able to bring it all to bear. enemy will just spend 2 turns killing all your stealers and trying to get at your HQ's then you wont have any damage.


If they only have shooting you will win since you'll have them tied up, but if they have melee as well you'll be in trouble.


That's a pretty simplistic analysis, and not really an argument in good faith.

My normal tournament list is super similar. In basically every game I've always found myself thinking, "Man, I wish I had another 20 stealers", but always prescribed to a balanced list approach so never brought more than 2x20. I've never had an issue getting 60 horms and 40 GS into the mix, and I don't predict I'll have an issue making another 20 GS work in a climate where people are bringing more AT than ever to deal with the knight heavy meta.

In this meta, I'm pretty confident this list will do well. Not because it's going to table opponents, but because it will win on objectives almost every time out. My only major concerns would be double fire raptor+guilleman lists, as they'll stay supersonic and block movement, then they'll hover and by then I'll probably be toast (unless I can mind control and use one to smoke the other), or another horde melee army as that will come down to timing for who screens more effectively. Though I think with 60 horms I should be able to properly screen, and the kraken WL trait allows me 2 interrupts. Knights will lose to this pretty consistently, Custode bikers with rule of 3 and fly changes are not nearly as dangerous, Disintegrators are not particularly effective. Tau fire warrior spam could be rough, but mass hypnosis and smart charging with horms can completely shut that down.

I'm just thinking based off of how the game is currently playing with no reserves turn 1. It feels like a jorm-MC gunbeast list or a horde list are our strongest options. My experience and your statement are at odds. The mechanics of 8th really favor fearless hordes, several tournaments in 8th have been won abusing this type of mechanic (Though ynnari being perfect for ITC scoring remains an issue for every army in most GTs). Often the winner at any given large GT is one of a pool of great players with viable lists, who happened to avoid a specific unfavorable match up and leveraged a small list advantage with great play and a smidge of luck to take a win.

I could also swap 20 GS to 30 devourer gants for screen clearing ability, though I typically like to use screens against the opponent to keep myself locked in combat. Or mix it up and somehow to 2 units of like 15 fleshborers, 10 dev or something like that for more board saturation and some more shooting.




Im inclined to agree with this, you have a ton of units that can contest objectives very threateningly in the opening turns, and are extremely difficult for opponents to contest safely. Yeah, it will lose to the Deathwatch player deepstriking 3 maxed out squads of Aggressors or anything else with a similar amount of squad clear, but as you said who is even gunning like that anymore in this meta?

I'm not going to say change anything because you know best what works for you, but one thing I want to make sure you've considered is a Primus with Purestrains or even Neophytes to threaten things like Mortars, as 3x3 Mortars with their board cut off will do so much work Vs you, and with no long range shooting you are forced to try a big slog to bring them down, which is both inefficient and clashes with your gameplan. The other thing to consider is Abominants, you don't have much AT and even in the rounds you don't find that wanting, they help in every scrap and chew through anything that Stealers may get bogged down by.

Again, you may find you don't need either of those things with the way your list plays, I'd just keep them in mind while playing, and get out there and practice with what you've got so far to answer those questions definitively for yourself!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/17 04:08:42


Post by: Xenomancers


Spoletta wrote:
To remove a LR in a single phase you need 2 rupture TFexes or 5 shock guards in double fire.

Against the knight only the shockguards will do.

Honestly Carnifex with HVC are how I do it. Give him 2 deathspitters as well - those aren't great vs LR but kill infantry really good - usually they will be split firing. Against venoms or something they are great though. HVC is str 9 so that helps a lot. I also give a few tyrants HVC - my lists usually have 6ish of them - 4 on carni 2 on tyrants. They are fantastic weapons.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 01:51:53


Post by: Niiai


I am late to the party. But looking at chapter approved. I see tyranids got some good point decrease. I used to ru leviathan warriors and both primes and venom cannon are cheaper. Carnifex weapons are also cheaper.

Swarmlord of cheaper. Lictors are cheaper. Jupp, jupp jupp.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 02:01:52


Post by: admironheart


I am waiting to try out my maxed out Warrior plus Trygon list.

I want to see them pop out and cause some damage and draw fire from my incoming genestealer hordes.

The enemy has to decide who to go after.

If I use my Harpy to block lanes of movement do some Genestealer units have a better chance of utilizing the Hive Node deployments? Because if you place if correctly the opponent needs to rush forward to try to remove them....Isnt that what we want?

(ofc you would not do that vs a very mobile opponent)



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 02:08:00


Post by: Amishprn86


2 Harpy's with StC is something i want to try. Tho i like the HVC better, it being so much cheaper is what it needed to be.

143pts is still to much IMO due to lack of -1 to hit. But its better than 179pts, a 36pt drop (72pts for 2). I was really hoping for at least 15pts more off of it, but its a start.

I dont think its comp worthy, but at least now for local games its playable,


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 02:33:05


Post by: First Among Gators


There's a lot of "playable" stuff now but I'm not sure that much is rivalling our best stuff. Swarmlord is looks good! Broodlords are the go to filler HQ choice now. I haven't seen anyone else mention them, but personally the unit I'm most excited for is Lictors. For the same price as Rippers, except with -1 or even -2 to hit, who can pull their own weight in assault too? Yes please. They check a lot of boxes, I'll definitely be running them.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2018/12/18 02:41:36


Post by: Amishprn86


 First Among Gators wrote:
There's a lot of "playable" stuff now but I'm not sure that much is rivalling our best stuff. Swarmlord is looks good! Broodlords are the go to filler HQ choice now. I haven't seen anyone else mention them, but personally the unit I'm most excited for is Lictors. For the same price as Rippers, except with -1 or even -2 to hit, who can pull their own weight in assault too? Yes please. They check a lot of boxes, I'll definitely be running them.


IMO Primes and Neurothropes are still better HQ fillers, but unless im at 1500pts or less, i will never need HQ fillers, they are cheaper, and the points of an HQ filler is ot be cheap but stillw ork, both Neuro and Primes fit that better. Between Swarmlord, Flyrants, OOE, i dont have room for anything else lol

I still dont like Lictors, the only reason i would even take them is for Brigade and then i dont like brigades. They only have a 50/50 chance to kill a T3, 5+, 4W character, and a 10% chance to kill a 5w version, IG, So, and other armies have many 15-45pt support character that the Lictor cant kill in 1 turn, if flesh hooks where not 6" you could maybe do something with that. I'd rather take a DL as its a character.

Also its not 30pts, its 34pts, you still need to pay for wargear. The DL is for sure better than a Lictor in every way, tho it does cost 26pts more, but re-rolls vs a picked character and character protection keyword, along with more attacks, and -2 to be hit, with more wounds.