tulun wrote: Fists of gork is totally useless. Bad range, and I'd rather the utility of Warpath at the cost of pushing my already high attack characters. Like, a Biker boss already shreds and can fight on death after fighting (currently anyway).
I like fists of gork on unbracketed Ghaz (5 attacks) and the big mek in MA (4 attacks). Honestly it takes the BMMA w/ killa klaw from *underwhelming* to *holy gak batman* level. Ghaz pretty easily gets locked into combat without it.
addnid wrote: Yeah warpath on a large mob of meganobz is solid, no debate here BTW I don’t know why but I have real high hopes for Mega nobz in the next codex. I hope we will be able to give them some durability
T5 at the very least is going to help against all the S8 damage weapons flying everywhere. Hopefully we can get cybork bodies back for them or some type of defensive strat to back that even further.
addnid wrote: Yeah warpath on a large mob of meganobz is solid, no debate here BTW I don’t know why but I have real high hopes for Mega nobz in the next codex. I hope we will be able to give them some durability
For sure. I really want them to get that +1 wound and a movement of 5.
So i wrote a lot of bs but its kind of what ever. the point is, agree, i hope they get buffed.
Mega Nobz as a unit is great, and i want them to remain great
Fists of gork is totally useless. Bad range, and I'd rather the utility of Warpath at the cost of pushing my already high attack characters. Like, a Biker boss already shreds and can fight on death after fighting (currently anyway).
It's a bit niche, but it's by no means useless. It is fantastic for pushing your heavy hitter characters into the realm of one shotting a knight. Though I am sad that 9th changed the math order to, well, proper math order. Before, wounding a knight on 2s with re-rolls was just wonderful.
Warpath is a cool power, and in a lot of armies would be amazing, but with orkz its somewhat redundant. Its either not needed (overkill) or needing to be more impactful. Assuming you get all 30 boyz into CC with a target it adds 30 attacks! Sounds amazing, but what is that target?
If its a T8 vehicle with a 3+ save those 30 attacks become 1.1 extra dmg. if its a T4 model with a 4+ save it becomes 5dmg. So against that T8 vehicle it serves little purpose, not that 1 extra dmg can't be impactful, just saying its unlikely you even get that thanks to the shortened engagement range. Against the T4 target its 5 extra dmg, which sounds amazing....but you already had 120 attacks which was doing 20dmg. There aren't that many units in the game which are T4 4+ that can survive 20dmg, usually 10 finishes them off. Granted, with the new AP-1 it might see an even bigger use since now its 30 extra S4 -1AP attacks.
Warpath on a 30 man blob means 10ish more attacks since 10ish boyz would actually get the chance to fight. And 10ish attacks at WS3+ S4 no ap aren't really boosting the boyz unit.
Fists of gork on a warboss/Ghaz is pretty good instead as the extra punch can make the difference if the character is fighting against something tough to kill. In a greentide warboss/Ghaz and weirdboy would likely march very close to each other so power's range isn't an issue.
Fists of Gork will probably help the ork model bypass invuls or something in the next codex. Somethin to giv da humies and pointy ears a good ol crumpin ! Or perhaps work on a gorka/morkanaut, who knows
A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?
Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
BDBurrow wrote: A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?
Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
It depends what you run them into.
Each attack does...
.30 damage to a GEQ ,11 damage to a MEQ .06 damage to a TEQ .07 damage to a Rhino or Gravis
.04 damage to a Knight
So you only need 34 attacks to kill a squad of GEQ. That's 10 Boys and a Nob-Warpath is overkill.
You need 90 attacks to kill a 5-man MEQ squad. Warpath may be the difference, but so can movement.
You need 270 attacks to kill a 5-man TEQ squad-you ain't doing that even WITH Warpath.
You need 149 attacks to kill a Rhino-so Warpath is the difference, if you get them all into combat.
You need 122 attacks to kill a 3-man Gravis squad.
And you need 324 attacks to bracket a Questoris Knight. Double that to kill it.
BDBurrow wrote: A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?
Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
People love to exaggerate. If it doesn't decimate it's target instantly it bounces off and does nothing, and if it can't handle an entire gunline shooting at it for three turns then it's too squishy.
Warpath certainly has a place in non-Goffs lists, and certainly on units like nobs and MANz where you really want more of the higher quality attacks. The main issue is that with grots getting nerfed, the Goffs horde became more popular, and generally your Warpath target in those lists is a blob of boys that in most games won't need the extra attacks.
On another note, I would absolutely love to see Fists of Gork turning into melee mortal wounds output. That would be beyond sick.
BDBurrow wrote: A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?
Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
Haha, I agree. Especially when only half the mob is left, warpath often the makes a difference. I honest haven't given bull charge a chance yet, I'm always leaving with warpath and fists of gork or da jump - usually depending on whether I bring MANz.
Warpath also works for some vehicles with high quality attacks like dreads, scrapjets or nauts or stack it with fists.
To be fair most times warpath is the only other decent psychic power…The vast majority of psychic powers aren’t useful.
You have da jump which is decent at least 1-2 a game.
You have fist of gork which is rarely in range of the target who can use it.
You have the evil sun power which is only decent on a handful of vehicles, locked to evil suns and hard to cast.
And you have warpath which pairs well with boy blobs which is one of our strongest lists. I get that in most situations your talking about ~15 extra attacks but that’s the entire point of boy blobs weight of dice. It will also only get better with better choppas stats. Warpath followed by da jump was always a fun tactic too.
Most of this doesn’t matter right now though new codex is coming very soon.
BDBurrow wrote: A couple weeks ago the narrative was "boys aren't good. You need Goffs for them to even make a dent. Evil suns and deffskullz horde bounce off targets all the time." Now they are overkill?
Everyone has their own experiences I guess. Mine is warpath is very useful and often the difference between killing off and unit and not.
People love to exaggerate. If it doesn't decimate it's target instantly it bounces off and does nothing, and if it can't handle an entire gunline shooting at it for three turns then it's too squishy.
Warpath certainly has a place in non-Goffs lists, and certainly on units like nobs and MANz where you really want more of the higher quality attacks. The main issue is that with grots getting nerfed, the Goffs horde became more popular, and generally your Warpath target in those lists is a blob of boys that in most games won't need the extra attacks.
On another note, I would absolutely love to see Fists of Gork turning into melee mortal wounds output. That would be beyond sick.
As Blackie pointed out, warpath is usually only 10-15 extra attacks because getting boyz into CC is fething hard. And, as JNAP pointed out, 10-15 extra attacks is
3-4 extra dead GEQ 1.1 to 1.55 extra dmg to a MEQ 0.6 to 0.9 extra dmg to a TEQ Gravis 0.7 to 1.07 extra dmg to a Rhino
or 0.4 to 0.6 extra dmg to a Knight.
Its not so much exaggeration as its likely outcome and based on the games i've played, its like i said, either overkill (3-4 dead GEQ) or needs a hefty boost (1.1 to 1.55 dmg to a MEQ). I think it would be better if they made warpath into extra dmg or AP.
Using 10 boyz as an example. currently warpath gives you 10 extra attacks for a total of 40, 26.6 hits, and against T4 3+ thats 13.3 wounds for 4.4dmg, if it bumped attacks to D2 or AP-1 this would be the change, 30 attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 6.6dmg (D2) or 5dmg (AP-1)
Personally I like the idea of giving Warpath -1 AP to weapons. This gives boyz AP-2 now on their weapons which happily goes around stormshield benefits making elite Marine units 4+ save instead of 3+ AND goes well against the "Ignore first AP" rule that has been becoming a thing in armies recently.
If those boyz survive to your opponent's fight phase, they will fight first assuming they weren't charged meaning you get the additional attacks twice. If you get stuck in, they'd get the extra attacks three times. These are all possible scenarios. Even if you don't kill off the unit, doing more damage to them helps reduce the incoming damage to the boyz. An extra attack (or two or three) for your killsaw nob is also nice, and not something you're factoring into those numbers. It seems like it's about a 50/50 chance whether or not I get UGT off these days. It's just too easy to wipe a unit of boyz. They need all the help they can get.
All this math is great and all, but more attacks for a unit that relies on having a ton of attacks is always a good thing. In my match yesterday, I rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 2 hits. Then the next unit rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 15 hits. Point being, those extra 10 to 30 attacks on average will only add 25% to your total damage, but sometimes it could be a 50% or 100% increase if the rolls previously were really bad. Or on the flip side it could result in no additional hits. Who the heck knows. More attacks = more damage inflicted = less damage taken = higher chance of UGT and possibly primary objective points.
BDBurrow wrote: If those boyz survive to your opponent's fight phase, they will fight first assuming they weren't charged meaning you get the additional attacks twice. If you get stuck in, they'd get the extra attacks three times. These are all possible scenarios. Even if you don't kill off the unit, doing more damage to them helps reduce the incoming damage to the boyz. An extra attack (or two or three) for your killsaw nob is also nice, and not something you're factoring into those numbers. It seems like it's about a 50/50 chance whether or not I get UGT off these days. It's just too easy to wipe a unit of boyz. They need all the help they can get.
All this math is great and all, but more attacks for a unit that relies on having a ton of attacks is always a good thing. In my match yesterday, I rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 2 hits. Then the next unit rolled 20 killsaw attacks and got 15 hits. Point being, those extra 10 to 30 attacks on average will only add 25% to your total damage, but sometimes it could be a 50% or 100% increase if the rolls previously were really bad. Or on the flip side it could result in no additional hits. Who the heck knows. More attacks = more damage inflicted = less damage taken = higher chance of UGT and possibly primary objective points.
Having played orkz for decades and had to suffer through GW pricing orkz based on THEORETICAL dmg rather than average I am more inclined to think along the lines of averages.
Based on the games i've played, boyz usually only get 1 round of attacks in CC because the following turn my opponent uses a stratagem of some kind to disengage from my boyz and than hose them down with firepower. At the tournament I went to on Saturday, in all 3 games I played, my opponent was able to extract his valuable units from CC using strats or abilities and leave behind his speed bump units. Getting that first round dmg in is more important in my opinion.
each to their own but i love me a good combo of either warpath (for MANZ or boys blobs of 20+) or Fist of Gork if i dont run MANZ or any large blobs of boys.
And always da jump. I like it, and as Jidmah said, its great if you already have taken some losses, which orks are pretty good at doing, then warpath can make up for it.
I totally dig the idea of Mortal Wounds on the Fist of Gork ability though.
Its good that we go to T5 i think for boys, as boys arent good enough to warrent that 60 of them dies in one turn which isnt even difficult. They simply dont do enough carnage for it to be fair enough for how easily they are removed. Especially when considering that we dont really do well at ranged, so they're predominately a close combat unit.
Sure you dont need a lot of hits to kill termagants, guardsmen and eldar fire warriors due to their low toughness, but most things we hit dont have low toughness, and most things we hit, have a lot of attacks at range, that tends to destroy us before we even get there. Losing 500 points worth of boys just because some armies can pay 1 or 2CP to bring down the hammer of god in the shooting phase, never made sense to me. I never liked paying 500 points for 60 boys just for them to be decent in close combat only. which is why i only ever go for blobs of 90 boys when going goff, you buff them to the max there to make up for the fact they die in troves.
addnid wrote: Fists of Gork will probably help the ork model bypass invuls or something in the next codex. Somethin to giv da humies and pointy ears a good ol crumpin ! Or perhaps work on a gorka/morkanaut, who knows
Okay hear me out, two separate spells. Fists of gork, fists of mork. Mork gives mortals on a certain roll, gork just gives more brutal buffs. And it's properly confusing like anything gork/mork should be.
addnid wrote: Fists of Gork will probably help the ork model bypass invuls or something in the next codex. Somethin to giv da humies and pointy ears a good ol crumpin ! Or perhaps work on a gorka/morkanaut, who knows
Okay hear me out, two separate spells. Fists of gork, fists of mork. Mork gives mortals on a certain roll, gork just gives more brutal buffs. And it's properly confusing like anything gork/mork should be.
This very well might be the best response i read today. I love it!
no idea! but i did see the picture and i thought: at least i havent seen those models before. but maybe one of you forum dwellers had seen the models before from an earlier edition.
They just look new to me. I wouldnt mind getting new boys models.
We honestly still don't know much about the snagga boyz. We got their profile yeah. But there is either alt loadouts or a special weapon in the released pictures so far. One model in the 20ork unit does have some sorta blunderbuss or heavy slug thrower.
Hopefully next week we get to see if Ere' we go or DX3 have changed in any way.
Two in front seems to be normal shoota boyz. One with the shoulder pad. And the second one with pretty strange angle of the shoota. So either modification or some photo trick.
Maybe, the photo is mirrored. Or part of it, because there are two left-handed shootas on the photo but IRL one of them is right handed. So either conversion or photoshoped mirrored ork from somewehere else. The most front shoota seem very much like something like this.
Tomsug wrote: Two in front seems to be normal shoota boyz. One with the shoulder pad. And the second one with pretty strange angle of the shoota. So either modification or some photo trick.
Maybe, the photo is mirrored. Or part of it, because there are two left-handed shootas on the photo but IRL one of them is right handed. So either conversion or photoshoped mirrored ork from somewehere else. The most front shoota seem very much like something like this.
Definitely new models that still based the shoota designs on the current ones. Look at the stance (more upright), musculature (blockier, closer to the nob kit than the Boyz), and most importantly the crook in the elbow, most of the current shoota arms don't have that severe of an angle.
Tomsug wrote: Two in front seems to be normal shoota boyz. One with the shoulder pad. And the second one with pretty strange angle of the shoota. So either modification or some photo trick.
Maybe, the photo is mirrored. Or part of it, because there are two left-handed shootas on the photo but IRL one of them is right handed. So either conversion or photoshoped mirrored ork from somewehere else. The most front shoota seem very much like something like this.
Definitely new models that still based the shoota designs on the current ones. Look at the stance (more upright), musculature (blockier, closer to the nob kit than the Boyz), and most importantly the crook in the elbow, most of the current shoota arms don't have that severe of an angle.
Yeah, this is what I call “conversion”. Hard to say. Photo is too gakky. But the stance, neck and head of the front one is definitely an old boy. Maybe, it is a just a small face-lifted new edition. Or some “uprgade kit” with different spare parts like the Guardsman recieved. From business side of view, selling the upgrade kits everybody are buying anyway from third companies is a good way. Especialy in the situation, the most of the new models are monopose without alternative parts.
Or, the new boyz will be the same, just the monopose variation on the old models without the alternatove parts, just to screw people around I guess we ' ll see soon.
Yeah, I personally doubt they would update the Boyz kit at the same time they're releasing Snagga boyz. They would likely have been showcased already alongside the Beast Snaggaz during the new stat update for Orks that they showed recently.
remember there was a new boy model revealed at the start of 9th that far as i know they have not fully shown off what it was.
It was along the lines of a generic boy.
Vineheart01 wrote: remember there was a new boy model revealed at the start of 9th that far as i know they have not fully shown off what it was.
It was along the lines of a generic boy.
Not sure which one you're referrring to, did that not end up being the special event named Nob?
The pants are different and the sword is held different. Totally not the same model.
Afaik that boy model in that preview video towards the bottom of the first article hasnt shown up yet. Possible hes a beastsnagga but....really difficult to tell since they didnt show much beyond the pants and weapons
Vineheart01 wrote: I cant seem to find the pictures we had in this thread since i dont feel like going through all 162 pages and i forget how far back it was lol.
Pretty sure that special nob was clearly NOT that boy in the video teaser. Far more detailed. The one in the trailer was extremely basic looking.
I was wondering about this and looked it up the other day. 99% sure it was one of the Beast Snagga Boyz.
Grimskul wrote: Yeah, I personally doubt they would update the Boyz kit at the same time they're releasing Snagga boyz. They would likely have been showcased already alongside the Beast Snaggaz during the new stat update for Orks that they showed recently.
honestly my thought here is it possible they do both, current sculpt is 20 years old and increasing to T5 they may want orks to be bigger and more imposing to smaller sculpts. Also with rumors of a imperial guard v orks box its possible they are a limited release push to fit thing like the AOBR ork boyz .
Definitely new models that still based the shoota designs on the current ones. Look at the stance (more upright), musculature (blockier, closer to the nob kit than the Boyz), and most importantly the crook in the elbow, most of the current shoota arms don't have that severe of an angle.
Yeah, this is what I call “conversion”. Hard to say. Photo is too gakky. But the stance, neck and head of the front one is definitely an old boy. Maybe, it is a just a small face-lifted new edition. Or some “uprgade kit” with different spare parts like the Guardsman recieved. From business side of view, selling the upgrade kits everybody are buying anyway from third companies is a good way. Especialy in the situation, the most of the new models are monopose without alternative parts.
Or, the new boyz will be the same, just the monopose variation on the old models without the alternatove parts, just to screw people around I guess we ' ll see soon.
We clearly aren't looking at the image the same, the stances are very different. They of course still have the typical shoulder hunch and bowed legs, but the curve of the spine as it runs from the lower back to the posterior is not at all like the current Ork Boyz.
Besidess that the shoulder pad on the ork nearest the front doesn't match up with any Ork kits I know of.
If you think GW would feature conversions, even in-house ones, on the packaging of a product they are selling that obviously aims to sell other products GE sells, well, I don't really think I can convince you that these are new models, because they simply don't do that.
McFarlane isn’t 40K models but toys.
I can’t see MANZ getting a new kit, they were literally the release wave before buggies.
I’m not saying we don’t get a new big Mek though to many indications that say it’s coming from model hints to rules for a nonexistent model which doesn’t happen.
gungo wrote: McFarlane isn’t 40K models but toys.
I can’t see MANZ getting a new kit, they were literally the release wave before buggies.
I’m not saying we don’t get a new big Mek though to many indications that say it’s coming from model hints to rules for a nonexistent model which doesn’t happen.
Yea I'm honestly confused by the video. Are these 40k releases or not?
No, they're just tie-in figures. There are a bunch more coming from the IP, but they aren't 40k models.
There's a reiver too, and they're unlikely to be replacing that kit so soon. So good news if you wanted some ~10" tall orks to display, but nothing to do with 40k as a game.
i could see DIFFERENT meganobz but not a new kit.
I.e. dakka focused ones akin to aggressors. Quite frankly i always found it odd Orks didnt slap guns all over meganobz since they have so many spots that are perfect for mounting a gun or five lol
Vineheart01 wrote: i could see DIFFERENT meganobz but not a new kit.
I.e. dakka focused ones akin to aggressors. Quite frankly i always found it odd Orks didnt slap guns all over meganobz since they have so many spots that are perfect for mounting a gun or five lol
Yeah, I remember way back when DA WAAAGH! forum was still a thing, one of the fandexes for the Badmoonz basically did exactly that, making use of our old Slow and Purposeful rules to allow them to move and shoot heavy weapons like deffguns that were wielded akimbo style. Basically mini-broadsides and it was pretty damn Orky.
Vineheart01 wrote: Right, i never understood why the marines got the guns upon guns upon powerfists method.
HOW IS THAT NOT AN ORK THING lol
Unfortunately, if I've learned anything from GW and their obsession with marine model releases, they will nick and steal other army's design space like a crazy Deffskull to keep up releases for them. They've already done it to Eldar by basically "aspect warrior-izing" most of the Primaris range into one-weapon type specialists. They grabbed the hover tanks from the Tau and the T5 W3 dakka infantry troops from the Custodes. Not surprising that they took all the dakka output from Orks as well while they're at it.
oh i know.
Marines have access to so many signature abilities other armies used to be known for.
Bout all theyre missing is a horde model (...squats?) and a markerlight system.
Grimskul wrote: they will nick and steal other army's design space like a crazy Deffskull to keep up releases for them.
Oh boy, I don't need reminders on how salty I was over getting that fun and unique 8th edition GSC codex after waiting the entire edition for a playable ruleset, only for SM 2.0 to drop like 6 months later along with a new host of forward deploying units including a dreadnought that also had anti-deepstrike, because it wasn't enough for them to nick that design space and do it better, they also had to get a shot in to make GSC's use of it less effective.
Sooo... I'm just done playing a game where I caught daemons/TS player completely off guard with... wait for it... bad moons trukk spam. I had a game set up with my arch nemesis from all the way back in 6th and was frankly a bit sick of playing green tide or buggy spam all the time, so I threw together list of silly stuff because I knew that tzeench daemons currently aren't doing so hot.
The list:
Spoiler:
+ HQ + Big Mek in Mega Armour: Da Killa Klaw, Da Kleverest Boss, Best Armor Teef Can Buy, Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Warlord Weirdboy: 3. Da Jump, Bad Moons: Gleamin' Gear, Warphead
+ Heavy Support + 6 Flash Gitz: Ammo Runt 9 Lootas: Klever Spanner, Big Shoota 9 Lootas: Klever Spanner, Big Shoota
+ Dedicated Transport + 7 Trukk
This was probably one of the most insane games I've played in 9th, I almost tabled the daemons safe for 13 pink horrors and won by a landslide despite running off an objective and forgetting actions twice. After turn 5, I had both units of lootas, 5 trukks, 4 boyz, 5 flash gits and the big mek still alive.
Highlights of the game: - Lootas and Flash Gits shredded 2 full units of Tzaangors first thing in the game. Klever Spanner actually worked really well, both loota mobs made their points back - Weird boy was the first thing to die, getting exploded by psykers - I actually had 'ard boyz with 2+ armor and still lost 11 in one turn. - Shoota boyz shooting twice with Moar Dakka shredded the lord of change - I deadlocked half the game because every unit of tzeench daemons had a trukk stuck to it. - Two trukks were actually saved from destruction by the ramshackle rule. - Burnas actually killed a unit of furies and auto-passed a moral test because of their pyromaniacs rule - The big mek charged a daemon prince and won - MANz killed two mutalith vortex beasts in two consecutive turns with hit 'em harder - I had a kill tally of 89 at the end of the game for 8 VP, scored 40 primary points (would have been 45 if I wasn't an idiot) - The flux caster managed to finish all three casts necessary for the psychic ritual despite being locked in combat with the big mek the entire time - I wasn't able to get a single point of line breaker because there was a frikkin' wall of pink horrors across the entire board.
So, while my performance was undeniably because of my opponent's lack of long range shooting, I was still shocked that my total joke list actually performed so well. It was fun as hell to play though, I really hope this archetype comes back with the next book.
Jidmah wrote: Sooo... I'm just done playing a game where I caught daemons/TS player completely off guard with... wait for it... bad moons trukk spam. I had a game set up with my arch nemesis from all the way back in 6th and was frankly a bit sick of playing green tide or buggy spam all the time, so I threw together list of silly stuff because I knew that tzeench daemons currently aren't doing so hot.
The list:
Spoiler:
+ HQ + Big Mek in Mega Armour: Da Killa Klaw, Da Kleverest Boss, Best Armor Teef Can Buy, Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Warlord
Weirdboy: 3. Da Jump, Bad Moons: Gleamin' Gear, Warphead
+ Heavy Support + 6 Flash Gitz: Ammo Runt
9 Lootas: Klever Spanner, Big Shoota
9 Lootas: Klever Spanner, Big Shoota
+ Dedicated Transport + 7 Trukk
This was probably one of the most insane games I've played in 9th, I almost tabled the daemons safe for 13 pink horrors and won by a landslide despite running off an objective and forgetting actions twice.
After turn 5, I had both units of lootas, 5 trukks, 4 boyz, 5 flash gits and the big mek still alive.
Highlights of the game:
- Lootas and Flash Gits shredded 2 full units of Tzaangors first thing in the game. Klever Spanner actually worked really well, both loota mobs made their points back - Weird boy was the first thing to die, getting exploded by psykers
- I actually had 'ard boyz with 2+ armor and still lost 11 in one turn.
- Shoota boyz shooting twice with Moar Dakka shredded the lord of change
- I deadlocked half the game because every unit of tzeench daemons had a trukk stuck to it.
- Two trukks were actually saved from destruction by the ramshackle rule.
- Burnas actually killed a unit of furies and auto-passed a moral test because of their pyromaniacs rule - The big mek charged a daemon prince and won - MANz killed two mutalith vortex beasts in two consecutive turns with hit 'em harder
- I had a kill tally of 89 at the end of the game for 8 VP, scored 40 primary points (would have been 45 if I wasn't an idiot)
- The flux caster managed to finish all three casts necessary for the psychic ritual despite being locked in combat with the big mek the entire time - I wasn't able to get a single point of line breaker because there was a frikkin' wall of pink horrors across the entire board.
So, while my performance was undeniably because of my opponent's lack of long range shooting, I was still shocked that my total joke list actually performed so well. It was fun as hell to play though, I really hope this archetype comes back with the next book.
Wow! Sounds like one heck of a game, thanks for sharing Jidmah! Really glad to hear you both had fun and were actually able to have fun with an off-brand army type like this, I've noticed that if you deliberately scale the power level back with opponents you can have some interesting games since you aren't as pressured to only take the most cutthroat and objectively competitive units. It's certainly easier to do this when you face other armies closer to your competitive tier, it's certainly more skewed when its the most recently updated codices. I really do hope the new Ork codex offers more playstyles like this where some measure of combined arms or at least mechanized lists can do well without having stuff like buggies doing the hard carrying of the list. How did you feel about the Ardboyz? I know you mentioned that you lost 11 even though you managed to pull off getting a 2+ save, do you feel if Ard boyz becomes a proper upgrade to a 4+ save and that it costs points again that'll be worth taking?
Grimskul wrote: How did you feel about the Ardboyz? I know you mentioned that you lost 11 even though you managed to pull off getting a 2+ save, do you feel if Ard boyz becomes a proper upgrade to a 4+ save and that it costs points again that'll be worth taking?
Hum, maybe if they are cheap enough. At 5+ for 2CP it definitely is hot garbage tier, though T5 would have made a huge difference. If T5 boyz with 4+ were 10 points they might be an ok-ish choice, but nothing game breaking. It's just too much of an investment for something that might not matter anyways.
Grimskul wrote: How did you feel about the Ardboyz? I know you mentioned that you lost 11 even though you managed to pull off getting a 2+ save, do you feel if Ard boyz becomes a proper upgrade to a 4+ save and that it costs points again that'll be worth taking?
Hum, maybe if they are cheap enough. At 5+ for 2CP it definitely is hot garbage tier, though T5 would have made a huge difference. If T5 boyz with 4+ were 10 points they might be an ok-ish choice, but nothing game breaking. It's just too much of an investment for something that might not matter anyways.
Oh yeah, 2CP for a 5+ save is an insult. Even in the previous codex when Ardboyz were able to be taken on a per boy basis point upgrade it was always on the suboptimal side since AP4 was so common and used for anti-infantry weapons that were effective against them, so given that a 4+ save is a lot more functional compared to previous editions, it would be cool to take a semi-elite feeling horde of armoured ladz in either trukks or footslogging as army theme in the new book.
I assembled my Big Trakk after having it for years in anticipation of the new Codex. That was... Interesting. Someone hold me :(
I hope that Trukks are useful in the future because it's too small as a Waggon. It can physically fit *one* of my converted MANz unless I have their bases overlap
Heavy support slot is a main downside of the big trakk. In all other aspects it' s superior than trukk and in my eyes the price is higher, but better. Especially thanks Spiked Ram and 14” speed. With Ramming Speed speed it' s a cheap MW bullet. I use it for the boyz and MegaMek.
The Ork heavy support slot is definitely too crowded. For example, when I am fielding a list with two Battlewagons and a Kannon wagon - I am not able to field any kind of Dread alongside them, unless I pay the CP for extra heavy support choices or go for a Brigade. I definitely think that the Deff Dreads at least should be Elite, and perhaps the Big Trakk could be moved to fast attack - since it's so fast that would make sense.
Bonde wrote: The Ork heavy support slot is definitely too crowded. For example, when I am fielding a list with two Battlewagons and a Kannon wagon - I am not able to field any kind of Dread alongside them, unless I pay the CP for extra heavy support choices or go for a Brigade. I definitely think that the Deff Dreads at least should be Elite, and perhaps the Big Trakk could be moved to fast attack - since it's so fast that would make sense.
Fast attack is even more crowded. Big Trakk needs to be the Transport!
Looks like the boys on the cadian box WERE new boys. I was right. yay!
away with the twerking pose i say. in with more modern Ork models.
also the army box is pre-order able from july.
Yes! New boyz and pre-order for Snagga Box in July and codex himself “later this year”. Which is confusing for me, but anyhow - codex will be there let' s say no earlier than in August.
So I 'm happy I was wrong with the boyz. And now it seems have a chance to be happy I was wrong even with Orktober
but not so much more detailed to make me scrap my old ones
the old boyz hold up fairly well for such old models... would like to know how if they changed the scale of these new boyz
oh totally i wont scrap mine either. but i only have 90 boys to begin with and not all of them are painted. ill probably scrap the ones that arent painted by the time these new boys are ready for purchase.
Maybe. or maybe keep them in reserve. ill probably keep them in reserve
Well I'll be damned, that's a very pleasant surprise tbh. We'll see what new bits they include in the new boyz kit, but wow, this release is a lot bigger than I thought it would be! They didn't radically change the baseline Boy size or design so kudos for GW keeping a similar look for them!
With 200 painted boyz and 80 more unpainted, I'm surely not investing a single dime in the new guys. Especially not with the landslide of other models to buy.
Thank Gork and/or Mork for boiz not becoming obselete..... I currently have only 2 complete boi squads (50 models of which are waiting to be assembled) which means that I will definitely be getting the new boiz but not until im done with my current boi backlog.
last count i was rocking 4 or 5 hundred boys, granted some are kitbashed things liek kings of war orc bodies with gw arms and aftermarket heads. I also have some 3d printed boys not in that count. i will probably still get at least 30 of the new boyz as i like each ork boyz squad to look different.
I have over 400 painted orks, so a bit disappointed to see a new boyz kit in some respects.
But I guess it had to happen sooner rather than later as the kit was old, and even though its stood the test of time it was going to be replaced at some point.
I don't feel the pressure of replacing all 400 lads with the new sculpts, and I won't be doing that, instead I'll be purchasing 3-4 boxes of the new and mixing them in with what I have. I already have models mixed in from alternative vendors.
So while this is bittersweet I'm trying to look at it from a place of positivity.
I agreed with Jidmah a year or so ago when he said people who wanted new boyz will be upset when we do in fact get them because all of our current infantry style models are basically based on the current boy which means if you can find/re-purpose or kustomize bitz you can basically make any infantry unit you want using a boyz model as the base.
I've made all of my Burna boyz from loota boxes, and used the extra bitz to make the 4 burnaz per box as well as a pair of tankbustas. I have literally never bought a box of Tankbustas but have enough to field 2 units of them
With all of that said, I will be buying a box or 3 of these new boyz, but only after I max out my purchases of the new snagga box set. I've already asked my FLGS to order 1 of the big boxsets when the come available for pre-order just for me
I'm absolutely thrilled with today's news. What a day to be alive. Once I'm done with these 15 stormboyz and battlewagon I just purchased, i'll be caught up on my painting backlog again and ready for some snaggaz and new boyz. I just finished a kustom stompa made out of old sprues. It took me about a month but turned out really well I think. Was a bit harder than I was expecting and took a lot of patience.
Oh yes, and there will be a new Snagga warboss riding a huge white squig looking like a Moby Dick
pepi55 wrote: So you still think boys can become obselete even if they introduce a new boys kit?
Correct. They are stepping on each other's toes in terms of design space, similar to how MANz and nobz have never both been relevant.
Of course, beast snaggas might not have options to take shootas, creating a niche for regular boyz right there.
I'm guessing the shoota gets a hefty upgrade as well than. Otherwise they serve no purpose since the shoota is now COMPLETELY inferior to the choppa.
Shootas are not gonna get any kind of upgrade (characteristics wise, there might be some specific stratagems, clan rules, etc to make them better though). Example : Bolters (not the primaris' ones).
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Jidmah wrote: Well, if it's cheaper, they serve a purpose as durable objective campers.
From the Thrakka datasheet I'd guess they might become Rapid Fire 2. Not awesome, but might close the gap to choppas.
The so-called "Thrakka datasheet leak" is the one which is currently inside Thrakka box. And yes, it is full of mistakes.
i had a feeling one of the unknown ork releases was a boss on a squig.
I mean, cmon, why release squigriders and make them seem like such a big deal and not give a boss too lol
Jidmah wrote: Well, if it's cheaper, they serve a purpose as durable objective campers.
From the Thrakka datasheet I'd guess they might become Rapid Fire 2. Not awesome, but might close the gap to choppas.
The so-called "Thrakka datasheet leak" is the one which is currently inside Thrakka box. And yes, it is full of mistakes.
If the time table of GW wouldn't have been disturbed as much as it was, that box would have been released just three months before the ork codex. It's perfectly possible that this is his actual codex datasheet.
I guess you are right on the shoota thing, though it would seem odd to me to buff choppa boyz without also buffing the already inferior shoota boyz.
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Vineheart01 wrote: i had a feeling one of the unknown ork releases was a boss on a squig. I mean, cmon, why release squigriders and make them seem like such a big deal and not give a boss too lol
That boss can actually be seen in the canvas painting - just on a red squig.
It's also worth noting that the white squig rider is the first snakebite character in a long time.
Jidmah wrote: Well, if it's cheaper, they serve a purpose as durable objective campers.
From the Thrakka datasheet I'd guess they might become Rapid Fire 2. Not awesome, but might close the gap to choppas.
The so-called "Thrakka datasheet leak" is the one which is currently inside Thrakka box. And yes, it is full of mistakes.
I guess you are right on the shoota thing, though it would seem odd to me to buff choppa boyz without also buffing the already inferior shoota boyz.
The Astartes Chainsword has been buffed to AP-1 while the bolter is still AP0 and Rapid Fire 1. It seems that GW prefers, for "versatile units" (Boyz, CSM squad, etc) to buff their melee options rather than their ranged options.
pepi55 wrote: So you still think boys can become obselete even if they introduce a new boys kit?
Correct. They are stepping on each other's toes in terms of design space, similar to how MANz and nobz have never both been relevant.
Of course, beast snaggas might not have options to take shootas, creating a niche for regular boyz right there.
you know, ive started playing this money sinkhole of a game a year ago, so i dont really have the wide perspective through years about how they've done things. BUT! it seems maybe this time they are really looking at what makes orks.. well orks. And on the path to doing so, maybe trying to find a relevant role for at the very least their new units. Since they have made snagga boys and normal boys, i think they will think a little bit harder at how these two units can co-exist so that both units makes sense in each their army style.
Thats a hope at least, whether it will happen i dont know. But as i said, i have hopes. Hopes that this expansion will put the orks on a great green path with gameplay mechanics, where both nobz and mega nobz have value.
Sure, I hope for that as well, but it's genuinely difficult to have two units which do the same thing be good at the same time.
I mean, just look across the game we have: Intercessors/Tacticals, Immortals/Warriors, Nobz/MANz, Warp Spiders/Swooping Hawks, KMK/Smashas or all the different variants of LRBT, baneblades or ranged/melee knights. For every one of those there is always one "best" choice and the other one just becomes irrelevant until the wheel of balance spins again.
I don't think it is impossible to make one unit of slugga boy, one unit of beast snaggas and one unit of shoota boyz a good army, but I also don't think it's likely.
This being by fifth edition playing orks and the tenth ork book , I expect it to be the same as always - there will be this fun and wild time where everyone tries everything for half a year and veteran ork players are randomly catching people off guard with whack lists and winning tournaments. People will be starting threads calling for ork nerfs on random things that aren't even good.
Then the dust settles and we will know what works and what doesn't, as will our opponents. At that point I think there will be some sort of accord that deems a specific combination of snaggas, sluggas and/or shootas as the current best thing. Just like we currently basically all agree that sluggas are best, but 10 shootas mixed are a good idea while in 5th it was shoota boyz or bust. That will then last until either beast snaggas are "the thing" after a major balance patch or until the next codex.
Jidmah wrote: Sure, I hope for that as well, but it's genuinely difficult to have two units which do the same thing be good at the same time.
I mean, just look across the game we have: Intercessors/Tacticals, Immortals/Warriors, Nobz/MANz, Warp Spiders/Swooping Hawks, KMK/Smashas or all the different variants of LRBT, baneblades or ranged/melee knights.
For every one of those there is always one "best" choice and the other one just becomes irrelevant until the wheel of balance spins again.
I don't think it is impossible to make one unit of slugga boy, one unit of beast snaggas and one unit of shoota boyz a good army, but I also don't think it's likely.
This being by fifth edition playing orks and the tenth ork book , I expect it to be the same as always - there will be this fun and wild time where everyone tries everything for half a year and veteran ork players are randomly catching people off guard with whack lists and winning tournaments. People will be starting threads calling for ork nerfs on random things that aren't even good.
Then the dust settles and we will know what works and what doesn't, as will our opponents. At that point I think there will be some sort of accord that deems a specific combination of snaggas, sluggas and/or shootas as the current best thing. Just like we currently basically all agree that sluggas are best, but 10 shootas mixed are a good idea while in 5th it was shoota boyz or bust.
That will then last until either beast snaggas are "the thing" after a major balance patch or until the next codex.
What are you defining as "units which do the same thing." Are you referring to the standard unit roles of position holder, brawler, elimination, and attrition? If so, are you stating that every 40k army only has 1 unit that fits each of these roles?
Jidmah wrote: Sure, I hope for that as well, but it's genuinely difficult to have two units which do the same thing be good at the same time.
I mean, just look across the game we have: Intercessors/Tacticals, Immortals/Warriors, Nobz/MANz, Warp Spiders/Swooping Hawks, KMK/Smashas or all the different variants of LRBT, baneblades or ranged/melee knights.
For every one of those there is always one "best" choice and the other one just becomes irrelevant until the wheel of balance spins again.
I don't think it is impossible to make one unit of slugga boy, one unit of beast snaggas and one unit of shoota boyz a good army, but I also don't think it's likely.
This being by fifth edition playing orks and eighth time an ork book is released, I expect it to be the same as always - there will be this fun and wild time where everyone tries everything for half a year and veteran ork players are randomly catching people off guard with whack lists and winning tournaments. People will starting threads calling for ork nerfs on random things that aren't even good.
Then the dust settles and we will know what works and what doesn't, as will our opponents. At that point I think there will be some sort of accord that deems a specific combination of snaggas, sluggas and/or shootas as the current best thing. Just like we currently basically all agree that sluggas are best, but 10 shootas mixed are a good idea while in 5th it was shoota boyz or bust.
That will then last until either beast snaggas are "the thing" after a major balance patch or until the next codex.
In fairness to GW the codex's that have released so far this edition have brought *most* datasheets up to at least being somewhat playable. I've been through all the codex's and its hard to find units that are so terrible they will never see a table. Even over costed tat like a Land Raider is perfectly fine in a larger game of 40k.
But Yes, in the competitive scene there will always be units that are just that little bit more points efficient, or fulfil a certain role better than anything else in the codex.
I expect most units in the ork codex to get the refresher treatment and become a lot more playable, I'm quite hopeful in this regard.
My primary concern is what they do with Gorkanauts and Morkanauts as they need some serious work to be in any way competitive and a huge points reduction.
What am I trying to say with this ramble is I think they are narrowing the gap between the "haves and have nots" datasheets. So I'm hopeful the Ork codex will have a few competitive builds and not just be locked into our usual 1-2 builds.
But I think orks are definitley the acid test for the rest of this edition.
Jidmah wrote: Sure, I hope for that as well, but it's genuinely difficult to have two units which do the same thing be good at the same time.
I mean, just look across the game we have: Intercessors/Tacticals, Immortals/Warriors, Nobz/MANz, Warp Spiders/Swooping Hawks, KMK/Smashas or all the different variants of LRBT, baneblades or ranged/melee knights.
For every one of those there is always one "best" choice and the other one just becomes irrelevant until the wheel of balance spins again.
I don't think it is impossible to make one unit of slugga boy, one unit of beast snaggas and one unit of shoota boyz a good army, but I also don't think it's likely.
This being by fifth edition playing orks and the tenth ork book , I expect it to be the same as always - there will be this fun and wild time where everyone tries everything for half a year and veteran ork players are randomly catching people off guard with whack lists and winning tournaments. People will be starting threads calling for ork nerfs on random things that aren't even good.
Then the dust settles and we will know what works and what doesn't, as will our opponents. At that point I think there will be some sort of accord that deems a specific combination of snaggas, sluggas and/or shootas as the current best thing. Just like we currently basically all agree that sluggas are best, but 10 shootas mixed are a good idea while in 5th it was shoota boyz or bust.
That will then last until either beast snaggas are "the thing" after a major balance patch or until the next codex.
I think were talking about 2 different things here. I meant the primaris style of takeover with "boys will still be relevant", not their meta position. As far as I understand things, tactical marines are being phased out in favour of primaris marines and will soon even be removed from their codex while boyz will obviously not be phased out and even if they arent good in 9ed, they might luck out in a future edition (and not be removed from their codex before the earth burns).
This being by fifth edition playing orks and the tenth ork book , I expect it to be the same as always - there will be this fun and wild time where everyone tries everything for half a year and veteran ork players are randomly catching people off guard with whack lists and winning tournaments. People will be starting threads calling for ork nerfs on random things that aren't even good.
Then the dust settles and we will know what works and what doesn't, as will our opponents. At that point I think there will be some sort of accord that deems a specific combination of snaggas, sluggas and/or shootas as the current best thing. Just like we currently basically all agree that sluggas are best, but 10 shootas mixed are a good idea while in 5th it was shoota boyz or bust.
That will then last until either beast snaggas are "the thing" after a major balance patch or until the next codex.
Pretty much this, I've run skew lists in tournaments with sub par units and won the entire event. 6x 15 Kommandos with Free Burna's/nobz deep striking turn 1 was a blast in 8th That didn't mean Kommandos were broken good, it just meant very few lists could handle 90 Kommandos and 30 Boyz arriving turn 1 in your face (charge range).
The Astartes Chainsword has been buffed to AP-1 while the bolter is still AP0 and Rapid Fire 1. It seems that GW prefers, for "versatile units" (Boyz, CSM squad, etc) to buff their melee options rather than their ranged options.
Yes, but for 2pts extra you get intercessors who do have -1AP and Space Marines get tac doctrine which makes regular bolters AP-1 and Intercessors bolt rifles AP-2. On top of that the intercessor is RF 30' range if they gave that to Orkz it would be RF 18. or to put it another way, useless. If they don't buff shoota boyz in some way they will be useless.
10 shootas all in range get 20 shots, 7.7 hits, 3.85 wounds and 1 dmg against a Marine. 10 choppa boyz will get 30 attcks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg against a Marine. Why would you take shootas at all unless they go to 7ppm and you use them for cheap troops?
The Astartes Chainsword has been buffed to AP-1 while the bolter is still AP0 and Rapid Fire 1. It seems that GW prefers, for "versatile units" (Boyz, CSM squad, etc) to buff their melee options rather than their ranged options.
10 shootas all in range get 20 shots, 7.7 hits, 3.85 wounds and 1 dmg against a Marine. 10 choppa boyz will get 30 attcks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg against a Marine. Why would you take shootas at all unless they go to 7ppm and you use them for cheap troops?
Because we know nothing.
Perhaps because Snagga boyz will be (very) bad at range. Perhaps they will be expensive. Perhaps they will not benefit from Clan rules (ala Flash Gitz). Perhaps Trukks and Trukkboyz will be good and Snagga Boyz being sort of traditionalists, they will be forbidden from using Trukks and other mechanized transports. Or Sanagga Boyz will be overly specialized into killing tanks and monsters and as a result, not as interesting in the current meta than the regular and (probably) cheaper Boyz.
Or perhaps Shootas will be buffed through a combination of Clan Rules, Warlord Traits, stratagems, auras, etc.
There are so many variables which come into play that it is impossible to say with our current level of information what will be good and what will be not.
pepi55 wrote: I think were talking about 2 different things here. I meant the primaris style of takeover with "boys will still be relevant", not their meta position. As far as I understand things, tactical marines are being phased out in favour of primaris marines and will soon even be removed from their codex while boyz will obviously not be phased out and even if they arent good in 9ed, they might luck out in a future edition (and not be removed from their codex before the earth burns).
Actually, I don't think trueborn will get the axe. It's just the reality shows me that trueborn aren't appearing on tables unless they can do something primaris can't do or someone is choosing not to run an optimized list. Stuff that used to be everywhere is now sitting in display cases - stern guard, drop pods, rhinos, predators, ironclads, land speeders, and more. People still have these models, they just aren't running them anymore.
This isn't the topic at all though, so let's leave it at that.
i really hope that shoota boys will be a thing. A better thing that is. Right now they are out performed by normal Slugga boys. That kinda sucks. Only really bad moon and maybe evil sunz uses them.
Rapid fire would be cool and longer shooting range, while remaining the ability to advance and shoot.
pepi55 wrote: I think were talking about 2 different things here. I meant the primaris style of takeover with "boys will still be relevant", not their meta position. As far as I understand things, tactical marines are being phased out in favour of primaris marines and will soon even be removed from their codex while boyz will obviously not be phased out and even if they arent good in 9ed, they might luck out in a future edition (and not be removed from their codex before the earth burns).
Actually, I don't think trueborn will get the axe. It's just the reality shows me that trueborn aren't appearing on tables unless they can do something primaris can't do or someone is choosing not to run an optimized list. Stuff that used to be everywhere is now sitting in display cases - stern guard, drop pods, rhinos, predators, ironclads, land speeders, and more. People still have these models, they just aren't running them anymore.
This isn't the topic at all though, so let's leave it at that.
In other words, "That's a really great point that I disagree with, Pepi. That being the case, I think it's best that we don't talk about it anymore."
The Astartes Chainsword has been buffed to AP-1 while the bolter is still AP0 and Rapid Fire 1. It seems that GW prefers, for "versatile units" (Boyz, CSM squad, etc) to buff their melee options rather than their ranged options.
10 shootas all in range get 20 shots, 7.7 hits, 3.85 wounds and 1 dmg against a Marine. 10 choppa boyz will get 30 attcks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg against a Marine. Why would you take shootas at all unless they go to 7ppm and you use them for cheap troops?
Because we know nothing.
Perhaps because Snagga boyz will be (very) bad at range. Perhaps they will be expensive. Perhaps they will not benefit from Clan rules (ala Flash Gitz). Perhaps Trukks and Trukkboyz will be good and Snagga Boyz being sort of traditionalists, they will be forbidden from using Trukks and other mechanized transports. Or Sanagga Boyz will be overly specialized into killing tanks and monsters and as a result, not as interesting in the current meta than the regular and (probably) cheaper Boyz.
Or perhaps Shootas will be buffed through a combination of Clan Rules, Warlord Traits, stratagems, auras, etc.
There are so many variables which come into play that it is impossible to say with our current level of information what will be good and what will be not.
That was against regular boyz with a choppa, not snagga boyz. Those guys will do even more since they are base S5. We don't know their points yet but 10 of them will do 30 attacks, 20 hits, 14ish wounds, For 7ish dmg. So even better than regular Boyz with choppaz. but that is the point. Don't get me wrong, i've played 40k orkz long enough to know GW will gladly screw over an entire weapons system for several editions (Big shoota) just because its lazy and forgets about it. But my hope is that with everything in this game getting more deadly, GW will at least give shootas an extra shot because as stated above, unless they get some major dmg increase, they are functionally worthless when compared to the new Boyz with -1AP who can dish out 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound and 0.5dmg per boy as opposed to the shoota boyz who do 2 shots, 0.78 hits, 0.39 wounds and 0.13dmg per boy.
The Astartes Chainsword has been buffed to AP-1 while the bolter is still AP0 and Rapid Fire 1. It seems that GW prefers, for "versatile units" (Boyz, CSM squad, etc) to buff their melee options rather than their ranged options.
10 shootas all in range get 20 shots, 7.7 hits, 3.85 wounds and 1 dmg against a Marine. 10 choppa boyz will get 30 attcks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg against a Marine. Why would you take shootas at all unless they go to 7ppm and you use them for cheap troops?
Because we know nothing.
Perhaps because Snagga boyz will be (very) bad at range. Perhaps they will be expensive. Perhaps they will not benefit from Clan rules (ala Flash Gitz). Perhaps Trukks and Trukkboyz will be good and Snagga Boyz being sort of traditionalists, they will be forbidden from using Trukks and other mechanized transports. Or Sanagga Boyz will be overly specialized into killing tanks and monsters and as a result, not as interesting in the current meta than the regular and (probably) cheaper Boyz.
Or perhaps Shootas will be buffed through a combination of Clan Rules, Warlord Traits, stratagems, auras, etc.
There are so many variables which come into play that it is impossible to say with our current level of information what will be good and what will be not.
Totally agree with you. Shooting for orks could be completely changed as we know it. There are other ways to increase the effectiveness of weapons than changing their base statline. GW has stated over and over again that 9th ed orks will be complete revamped, yet everyone is shocked when they release a rule or model or combination that favors us.
Totally agree with you. Shooting for orks could be completely changed as we know it. There are other ways to increase the effectiveness of weapons than changing their base statline. GW has stated over and over again that 9th ed orks will be complete revamped, yet everyone is shocked when they release a rule or model or combination that favors us.
What rule/model have they released that was shocking? New boyz? we've been talking about that likelihood for years, most of us were against it but whatever. Snaggaboyz? Whats new about them really that matters? They basically just took snakebites rules and gave it a S5T5 boy and called it a new unit. The Squig riders? We had Boy boyz decades ago. AP-1 choppas? We had an old choppa rule that said only saves of 4+ allowed against us. Most of this isn't new or surprising, but I am more than willing to be wrong or convinced otherwise. What shoota rules do you think they will come up with that will be game changing for ork boyz shooting without touching the shoota profile?
Totally agree with you. Shooting for orks could be completely changed as we know it. There are other ways to increase the effectiveness of weapons than changing their base statline. GW has stated over and over again that 9th ed orks will be complete revamped, yet everyone is shocked when they release a rule or model or combination that favors us.
What rule/model have they released that was shocking? New boyz? we've been talking about that likelihood for years, most of us were against it but whatever. Snaggaboyz? Whats new about them really that matters? They basically just took snakebites rules and gave it a S5T5 boy and called it a new unit. The Squig riders? We had Boy boyz decades ago. AP-1 choppas? We had an old choppa rule that said only saves of 4+ allowed against us. Most of this isn't new or surprising, but I am more than willing to be wrong or convinced otherwise. What shoota rules do you think they will come up with that will be game changing for ork boyz shooting without touching the shoota profile?
T5 wasn't surprising to you?
I believe DDD will be improved. I believe we will get a version of doctrines. I believe we will get point and choose style buffs from characters such as big meks, painboss, etc. I believe our stratagems will be drastically improved, especially for boyz.
I'm still betting money that DDD will be additional hit on a 6 rather than an additional roll. With half the rule being made redundant due to 9th (the unmodified 6 always hits part)
Also it'd be a solid bet that shoota boyz could get a buffed version of DDD kind of like how necron warriors get a buffed version of reanimation protocols. Auto hitting on 5s would be kinda nice while not being over the top.
Hi fellas,
I just bought myself a Goliath Rockgrinder and wanted to convert it into a looted Battlewagon withouth having the original model at hand.
Only now did i find out, that the Rockgrinder ist about an inch smaller in height/lenght/width (depending on where you find data on these on the internet)
My question is, if converting it into the Battlewagon would be acceptable or should I rather send it back.
(I know that other people are using the Rockgrinder as a Trukk, but i already have enough of those haha)
SemperMortis wrote: 10 shootas all in range get 20 shots, 7.7 hits, 3.85 wounds and 1 dmg against a Marine. 10 choppa boyz will get 30 attcks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg against a Marine. Why would you take shootas at all unless they go to 7ppm and you use them for cheap troops?
You took just shooting vs melee and that's it?
Shootas have melee attacks as well...You don't just forget melee attacks.
Orktai wrote: Hi fellas,
I just bought myself a Goliath Rockgrinder and wanted to convert it into a lotted Battlewagon withouth having the original model at hand.
Only now did i found out, that the Rockgrinder ist about an inch smaller in height/lenght/width (depending on where you find data on these on the internet)
My question is, if converting it into the Battlewagon would be acceptable or should I rather send it back.
(I know that other people are using the Rockgrinder as a Trukk, but i already have enough of those haha)
How about using it as a big trakk?
That, or you just bulk it up with other stuff to make it longer and wider. Maybe attach a deff rolla?
Height isn't that much of an issue since it rarely matters, especially when you have some ork gunners on top.
pepi55 wrote: I think were talking about 2 different things here. I meant the primaris style of takeover with "boys will still be relevant", not their meta position. As far as I understand things, tactical marines are being phased out in favour of primaris marines and will soon even be removed from their codex while boyz will obviously not be phased out and even if they arent good in 9ed, they might luck out in a future edition (and not be removed from their codex before the earth burns).
Actually, I don't think trueborn will get the axe. It's just the reality shows me that trueborn aren't appearing on tables unless they can do something primaris can't do or someone is choosing not to run an optimized list. Stuff that used to be everywhere is now sitting in display cases - stern guard, drop pods, rhinos, predators, ironclads, land speeders, and more. People still have these models, they just aren't running them anymore.
This isn't the topic at all though, so let's leave it at that.
In other words, "That's a really great point that I disagree with, Pepi. That being the case, I think it's best that we don't talk about it anymore."
You really have a grudge against Jidmah... A "cyber grudge"... Seems unhealthy
While its possible to make a conversion for a big trakk, why tho? Big Trakks are terrible.
That is, they are actually quite decent transports, they are just in the wrong category of a heavy support slot. Im not sure i would suggest creating a big trakk conversion.
But yea if you dont want to make it in to a trukk, id say there are ways to make it in to a battlewagon. maybe find an extra set of tracks to put outside or something im not sure.
To be fair im not even sure a battlewagon 1 inch smaller, narrower and shorter in length is a big problem. but i also dont have a rockgrinder so i dont really know the scale of it.
While its possible to make a conversion for a big trakk, why tho? Big Trakks are terrible.
That is, they are actually quite decent transports, they are just in the wrong category of a heavy support slot. Im not sure i would suggest creating a big trakk conversion.
But yea if you dont want to make it in to a trukk, id say there are ways to make it in to a battlewagon. maybe find an extra set of tracks to put outside or something im not sure.
To be fair im not even sure a battlewagon 1 inch smaller, narrower and shorter in length is a big problem. but i also dont have a rockgrinder so i dont really know the scale of it.
Yeah, gak is a bit of an understandment given how many posts of his and others were deleted.
In any case, I agree, if Big Trakks were dedicated transports, I'm not sure if I would really bother with Trukks unless I want to deny 2 VP for Bring it Down, but even then you're probably going to be bringing enough vehicles they'll be close to maxing out that secondary against you anyways.
Well, I had 7 trukks in the game the other day, and even if I had added two bigtrakks instead, that list would still have sat at a comfortable 9VP for bring it down.
Keep in mind that your opponent doesn't actually want to kill your dumb transports with big shootas and next to no combat ability.
Orktai wrote: Hi fellas,
I just bought myself a Goliath Rockgrinder and wanted to convert it into a looted Battlewagon withouth having the original model at hand.
Only now did i find out, that the Rockgrinder ist about an inch smaller in height/lenght/width (depending on where you find data on these on the internet)
My question is, if converting it into the Battlewagon would be acceptable or should I rather send it back.
(I know that other people are using the Rockgrinder as a Trukk, but i already have enough of those haha)
*edit: misspelling
Working on it right now. Goliath is fine start, but needs to be enlarged. I used a bigger wheels, extended the back body and make an extension on the front.
Goliath is too solid and too tanky to be anything than Battlewagon. BT and regular Trukk have a Ramshackle, witch I understand as “too soft and full of holes, so overpenetration is possible”. That is not how the Goliath looks like.
WIP incl. the modeling, but the size is now aprox like the battlewagon.
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Jidmah wrote: Well, I had 7 trukks in the game the other day, and even if I had added two bigtrakks instead, that list would still have sat at a comfortable 9VP for bring it down.
Keep in mind that your opponent doesn't actually want to kill your dumb transports with big shootas and next to no combat ability.
I really want to have 7 Big Trakks on the table. It would looks amazing!
I believe DDD will be improved. I believe we will get a version of doctrines. I believe we will get point and choose style buffs from characters such as big meks, painboss, etc. I believe our stratagems will be drastically improved, especially for boyz.
I hope DDD goes to auto hit since the current mechanic is both clunky and mostly useless. a 16.6% chance to get a 33% chance to hit works out to a buff of....5.53% 100 shots before was 33.3 hits, with DDD it becomes 38.8 If DDD just goes to extra hits it becomes basically a swingy BS4 which is what orkz should be I think. But even with that buff it still won't be enough for shoota boyz to be considered good, especially compared to a -1AP choppa. The DDD buff AND +1 shots would let 10 shoota boyz go from 20 shots and 7.78 hits (20 shots and 10 hits with buffed DDD) to 30 shots and 15 hits. Thats going from 1.29dmg to a space marine to 1.66 (DDD) and 2.5 (DDD and +1 shots). The scary part is that means it woudl still take 8 shoota boyz to kill a single Marine with those buffs.
As far as Doctrines...maybe, but going from 8th and early 9th, GW seems hesitant to give orkz any real buffs to shooting. We get Freebootas which is situational but pretty good (I ran it in a tournament recently), Bad Moonz, which is reroll 1s...which is literally DDD just on the other side of the spectrum, And finally you get Deffskullz which is just reroll 1 hit/wound per unit per phase which basically becomes reroll hits for a Rokkit and the nobz CC weapon. But hey, if they do i'll be pleasantly surprised so long as it doesn't come with a corresponding debuff or bad price increase The other stuff, god I hope but I'm not holding my breath.
SemperMortis wrote: 10 shootas all in range get 20 shots, 7.7 hits, 3.85 wounds and 1 dmg against a Marine. 10 choppa boyz will get 30 attcks, 20 hits, 10 wounds and 5dmg against a Marine. Why would you take shootas at all unless they go to 7ppm and you use them for cheap troops?
You took just shooting vs melee and that's it? Shootas have melee attacks as well...You don't just forget melee attacks.
Fair point Tneva, but those shoota boyz will suck in comparison to choppa boyz in CC. a single boy would get 2 attacks, 1.33 hits, 0.66 wounds and 0.22dmg, a Choppa boy is going to 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound and 0.5dmg, literally more than double. Shooting wise, if the shoota doesn't get a significant buff its absolutely better with its +6 range and 2 shots, but at the same token those choppa boyz also get to shoot in CC compared to the shoota boyz who don't. Its not 100% better in every circumstance, but i'll gladly take 0.5dmg in CC per boy over 0.13dmg per boy at range and 0.22 in CC.
Orktai wrote: Hi fellas,
I just bought myself a Goliath Rockgrinder and wanted to convert it into a looted Battlewagon withouth having the original model at hand.
Only now did i find out, that the Rockgrinder ist about an inch smaller in height/lenght/
My question is, if converting it into the Battlewagon would be acceptable or should I rather send it back.
(SNIP)
*edit: misspelling
I made mine longer & wider, and added an extra pair of wheels for a Mekwagon.
Thanks. Wait until I finish it. Except the big wheels I' ve robed from the kids tank, I took the loudspeaker and some LED too. So this one would have the light effects, sound effects and - what is the most important - working wheels!
Semper's math is always on spot. I just regularly disagree with the conclusions he draws from his results
It also makes me wonder if GW is reading this forum since quite some ideas from threads here keep popping up as part of the rules. It might also just be beautiful minds thinking a like.
gungo wrote: Can anyone tell if the new boys are on 24mm or 32mm bases
Base on the pictures and trend for Ork models near their size being repackaged, I'd say 32mm.
Another reason to stick with old boys :p but that might mean we have to rebase the old models finally since boyz will no longer be sold on 24mm.
I hope basic boyz stay 24mm but I think you are right!
Basic boyz, and with them the entire ork roster barring gretchins, are already on 32mm or bigger bases. The new stuff wil be on 32mm as well, unless GW decides to put the on larger bases, but 40mm bases look already too large for infantries that aren't bulky like Flash Gitz or Meganobz.
gungo wrote: Can anyone tell if the new boys are on 24mm or 32mm bases
Base on the pictures and trend for Ork models near their size being repackaged, I'd say 32mm.
Another reason to stick with old boys :p but that might mean we have to rebase the old models finally since boyz will no longer be sold on 24mm.
I hope basic boyz stay 24mm but I think you are right!
Wait what.... I made all my bois with 32mm bases because their feet would stick out of 24mm bases.... Also the instruction booklet showed 32mm bases specifically
am i the only one probably irrationally excited about T6 bikers? I got in to orks because of the bikers and the traxx models wanting mad max orks. I love the buggies and am hoping i can go back to mostly plain biker boyz and nob bikers while not being terrible.
Bikers issue is they hit like a wet noodle though. Unless the AP1 on their choppas is a bigger impact than i expect (they dont have a bucket of melee dice) or their dakkagunz get buffed i just expect them to be a thicker wet noodle.
Yeah, currently Ork bikerz are just not enough bang for your buck. You're paying premium prices for a pretty fragile platform (even with T6) and they're yet another anti-infantry unit that doesn't do anything better than boyz can't do more efficiently. At best they're not bad to try and gum up someone's shooty units, but they need HQ support to pull that off and there's no strats for them or us that prevents Fallback moves. I think they'd need some bespoke utility rule or be cheap for them to have a distinct role in our army to be worth taking.
gungo wrote: Can anyone tell if the new boys are on 24mm or 32mm bases
Base on the pictures and trend for Ork models near their size being repackaged, I'd say 32mm.
But anyway before GW's official stance has been if they came with the base, that's fine. Came. Past tense. You would be fine.
Now in their official tournaments you are going to have to rebase anyway even your old models.
Their new rules irk the heck out of me. While I get why they did it, it's rough to join and grow these tournaments with others between the new demands of rebasing and painting differences per detachment. It helps streamline things and end confusion, but GW is assuming or wanting people to have very large, unrealistic collections for the average person.
In FL you have a pretty large tournament scene, and a pretty big base of people who are right on the edge of trying it out. But now? Just another reason not to join. For example my wife already did a tournament or two but if she had to repaint half her nids to match her detachments? Yeah... no.
As for me, I'm... kind of screwed. I bought a lot of boyz second hand on 24 bases. Got them super cheap and beyond happy, but the one big issue is the dude used some sort of industry insane glue not just under the ork feet, but all over it. A few boyz actually have their feet chopped off from what looks like rebasing attempts on fancy GW bases (pretty wild). Covered it with mud to make it look like their just dredging through terrain. No way though I'm getting them all on 32. Also half the boyz are painted in random colors and everything I bought, built and painted is Evil Sunz colors. So can't go goff horde at a tournament if I wanted to. Also begs the question what I do with Ghaz, as I painted him as an Evil Sunz lol.
G00fySmiley wrote: am i the only one probably irrationally excited about T6 bikers? I got in to orks because of the bikers and the traxx models wanting mad max orks. I love the buggies and am hoping i can go back to mostly plain biker boyz and nob bikers while not being terrible.
I am, also because I hope for AP-1 guns. Massed S5 AP-1 D1, a solid number of S4 AP-1 attacks plus the eventual special weapon on the nob, no vehicle keyword, and wounds scattered in multiple bodies will give them a role. Not really interested in biker nobz though, I expect the new squig riders to be fast heavy hitters.
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Grimskul wrote: Yeah, currently Ork bikerz are just not enough bang for your buck. You're paying premium prices for a pretty fragile platform (even with T6) and they're yet another anti-infantry unit that doesn't do anything better than boyz can't do more efficiently.
Boyz aren't any good outside lists with tons of them. So a decent anti infantry that is fast, deals damage from distance and works fine with lists that don't involve greentides would be much appreciated. I'd appreciate it a lot at least.
Ranged anti infantry is actually something that lacks in the ork codex (only the KBB I think, and it relies on a stratagem to perform as its best) while there's plenty of good ranged anti-elite or ranged anti tank options
Vineheart01 wrote: Bikers issue is they hit like a wet noodle though. Unless the AP1 on their choppas is a bigger impact than i expect (they dont have a bucket of melee dice) or their dakkagunz get buffed i just expect them to be a thicker wet noodle.
If they are cheap enough, I'm fine with them not hitting hard. Durable large footprint objective holders are something the buggy list could definitely use.
I also expect that if exhaust cloud remains a stratagem, you will be able to use it for 1CP in response to people shooting them, which makes it vastly more useful.
gungo wrote: Can anyone tell if the new boys are on 24mm or 32mm bases
Base on the pictures and trend for Ork models near their size being repackaged, I'd say 32mm.
But anyway before GW's official stance has been if they came with the base, that's fine. Came. Past tense. You would be fine.
Now in their official tournaments you are going to have to rebase anyway even your old models.
Their new rules irk the heck out of me. While I get why they did it, it's rough to join and grow these tournaments with others between the new demands of rebasing and painting differences per detachment. It helps streamline things and end confusion, but GW is assuming or wanting people to have very large, unrealistic collections for the average person.
In FL you have a pretty large tournament scene, and a pretty big base of people who are right on the edge of trying it out. But now? Just another reason not to join. For example my wife already did a tournament or two but if she had to repaint half her nids to match her detachments? Yeah... no.
As for me, I'm... kind of screwed. I bought a lot of boyz second hand on 24 bases. Got them super cheap and beyond happy, but the one big issue is the dude used some sort of industry insane glue not just under the ork feet, but all over it. A few boyz actually have their feet chopped off from what looks like rebasing attempts on fancy GW bases (pretty wild). Covered it with mud to make it look like their just dredging through terrain. No way though I'm getting them all on 32. Also half the boyz are painted in random colors and everything I bought, built and painted is Evil Sunz colors. So can't go goff horde at a tournament if I wanted to. Also begs the question what I do with Ghaz, as I painted him as an Evil Sunz lol.
you can get base rings that go around just the outside of the base to make them 32mm bases, I have 3d printed a bunch for space marine players but have not bothered with my ork infantry yet, likely will need to now.
as for ork bikers and hitting like a wet noodle i don't disagree btu am hoping the choppa combined with the new T6 and maybe some points reductions allow us to have larger groups of bikers per unit to add attacks. kind of the opposite of the new outrider bikes the answer for orks being mroe numbers vs higher quality
It ' s actually pretty sofisticated version of greentide with the nost of the Boyz in Deathskull detach giving them 6++ and TWO Painboyz (for boyz and for Ghazzy) and two Weirdboyz. One of them with Maniacal Seizure in combintation with Fists of Gork.
3 punchy characters (Ghazz, Warboss and MotoWarboss) and some SMG.
Such list has quite a lot of layers - pretty unusal for greentide lists. And shows something I saw in my last games:
Who cares about the new boyz or Snaggaboyz. Stormboyz are the new heros. They are really important to pass new secondaries. These will be the super common in warhamer 9.1.
What are your experiences with the new secondaries? They changed the game a lot IMHO. One must be even more mobile and flexible. Obesec jetpack infantry seems to be even more usefull.
I'd be interested to know what's the purpose of the trukk in a list like that since there are few vehicles, there's da jump in play and 4 deepstriking scoring units.
List is strong but a big boring IMHO, and I would have loved to see Grotsnik as the deathskulls doc.
Blackie wrote: I'd be interested to know what's the purpose of the trukk in a list like that since there are few vehicles, there's da jump in play and 4 deepstriking scoring units.
List is strong but a big boring IMHO, and I would have loved to see Grotsnik as the deathskulls doc.
if i recall from the interview correctly it was for the stormboys protect them until they are where they ened to be or close then jump out move and assault with obj secured to deny points to the opponent
You can only fit 6 jump pack models in a trukk, and there's a unit of 10 boyz sitting around doing nothing if that's the case. IMO the boyz go in the trukk or else they would be grots.
BDBurrow wrote: You can only fit 6 jump pack models in a trukk, and there's a unit of 10 boyz sitting around doing nothing if that's the case. IMO the boyz go in the trukk or else they would be grots.
i mean you are entitled to your opinion, but there was an interview on frontline gaming about his army (40k stat center) and his unit of stormboyz in a trukk had surprising range and did good work in denying points. He did manage to do quite well vs unnerfed DE in a high level tournament way better than either of us is doing so while i agree its probably not how i would play in a fun game its worth considering for tournaments as a long range point denial unit
BDBurrow wrote: You can only fit 6 jump pack models in a trukk, and there's a unit of 10 boyz sitting around doing nothing if that's the case. IMO the boyz go in the trukk or else they would be grots.
i mean you are entitled to your opinion, but there was an interview on frontline gaming about his army (40k stat center) and his unit of stormboyz in a trukk had surprising range and did good work in denying points. He did manage to do quite well vs unnerfed DE in a high level tournament way better than either of us is doing so while i agree its probably not how i would play in a fun game its worth considering for tournaments as a long range point denial unit
Stormboyz in Trukk are clever trick! You keep them safe againts alpha strike and then disembark 3” and move. These 3” are pretty important, because if you draw the missions incl secondaries, there are obvious “breaking points”.
For example - Want to do Octarius data with one unit twice? Need to move your units from wholy within to wholy within over 12” gap. Stormboyz have 12” move. 3” plus makes it possible.
Similar moments can be found in some other secondaries and of course in primaries too. I 've draw all missions in CAD and have a very interesting sunday afternoon
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BDBurrow wrote: You can only fit 6 jump pack models in a trukk, and there's a unit of 10 boyz sitting around doing nothing if that's the case. IMO the boyz go in the trukk or else they would be grots.
Boyz in trukk are clever in right setup. Depend on too many factors. And 10 Boyz squad sitting in the backfield is also fine solution. I had such list couple of months ago. They can screen, hold and fight the bastards comming to your deploy. Usually, they do an action in T1 and fight since T2. Definitely not wasted!
For example - Want to do Octarius data with one unit twice? Need to move your units from wholy within to wholy within over 12” gap. Stormboyz have 12” move. 3” plus makes it possible.
I'm not following this. You can't perform actions while inside of a trukk.
BDBurrow wrote: You can only fit 6 jump pack models in a trukk, and there's a unit of 10 boyz sitting around doing nothing if that's the case. IMO the boyz go in the trukk or else they would be grots.
i mean you are entitled to your opinion, but there was an interview on frontline gaming about his army (40k stat center) and his unit of stormboyz in a trukk had surprising range and did good work in denying points. He did manage to do quite well vs unnerfed DE in a high level tournament way better than either of us is doing so while i agree its probably not how i would play in a fun game its worth considering for tournaments as a long range point denial unit
For example - Want to do Octarius data with one unit twice? Need to move your units from wholy within to wholy within over 12” gap. Stormboyz have 12” move. 3” plus makes it possible.
I'm not following this. You can't perform actions while inside of a trukk.
Ahh, I wrote a nonsence in detail. You are right, but the principe is right. Do not take it like a precise plan. Simply - you add the protection to “easy to kill by mortar” units like stormboyz and add 3” to the movement. Draw a maps and missions in scale you will see, it' s designed so, the 12-14” move is a breaking point for getting from octarius to octarius, objective to objective, T1 engage,…. Hell that is wrong in my first example. I was speaking about T1 Engage & Telyport Homers combo!
T1 in mission with 2x12” no mans land.
Boyz in Trukk. Trukk on the frontline of your deploy.
Trukk protect the stormboyz
Stormboyz disenagge 3” + 12” move. Their base is about 1,25” so you are positively in oposite quater = VP for Enage and in the same time 12” from enemy deploy and do not advanced = you can do Telyport Homers
For example - Want to do Octarius data with one unit twice? Need to move your units from wholy within to wholy within over 12” gap. Stormboyz have 12” move. 3” plus makes it possible.
I'm not following this. You can't perform actions while inside of a trukk.
Ahh, I wrote a nonsence in detail. You are right, but the principe is right. Do not take it like a precise plan. Simply - you add the protection to “easy to kill by mortar” units like stormboyz and add 3” to the movement. Draw a maps and missions in scale you will see, it' s designed so, the 12-14” move is a breaking point for getting from octarius to octarius, objective to objective, T1 engage,…. Hell that is wrong in my first example. I was speaking about T1 Engage & Telyport Homers combo!
T1 in mission with 2x12” no mans land.
Boyz in Trukk. Trukk on the frontline of your deploy.
Trukk protect the stormboyz
Stormboyz disenagge 3” + 12” move. Their base is about 1,25” so you are positively in oposite quater = VP for Enage and in the same time 12” from enemy deploy and do not advanced = you can do Telyport Homers
I see. Interesting. This is something I undoubtedly need to play around with.
So ive found some unexpected success in a modified Goff list.. I was tinkering around with my ghazzy list with Goffs, and tried putting bad moon tankbustas in a patrol. By doing so ive removed my Mega Nobz.
Spoiler:
7CP Detatchment: Battalion --> Goff
HQ: Big Mek w. KFF: Follow me, Ladz! Grot oiler (got spare 10 points) Warlord Ghazzy the destroyer of worlds
Troops: 3x 29 Boys slugga and choppa, 1 nob with powerklaw (could be killsaw, but has none to spare), SkarBoyz, 3x tankbusta bombs 3x 29 Boys slugga and choppa, 1 nob with powerklaw (could be killsaw, but has none to spare), SkarBoyz, 3x tankbusta bombs 3x 29 Boys slugga and choppa, 1 nob with powerklaw (could be killsaw, but has none to spare), SkarBoyz, 3x tankbusta bombs (Note: Maybe i could run double killsaws in a troops squad? or something instead of a grot oiler)
HQ: Weirdboy, Warpath, Da Jump, Super Cybork Body (could be scorched git bones or something else), Warphead
Troops: 10x Grots
Elites: 15 Tankbustas, 6x Bomb Squigs
TOTAL POINTS: 1995
The good and the bad is, i have very good alpha strike with teleporting in Tankbustas when they're hidden behind some ruins in the far away corner or something. The bad is if you know the enemy can get to them with long range or otherwise (like not needing line of sight), and there might not be great ruins to hide them behind or inside with no windows, you have to spend 2CP to deepstrike them. The bad also is that you have quite frankly little to no CP left for anything. If you dont deepstrike them you have 1 CP or so for healing ghaz. You are very hungry for CP, so dont expect to be rerolling anything with the 1CP reroll stratagem. at least not in the first few turns.
But granted you get your 15 tankbustas da jumped to the frontline, find the most important vehicles or heavy infantry and bomb them back to the stone age with More dakka and Showing off for a total of 4 CP.
You start the battle with 7CP, 8 when your turn is up. then you spend 4 CP on More dakka + showing off putting you at 4 left, then you have 3CP left for Greentide, and 1CP for healing Ghaz. You dont have a lot, and maybe you wanted CP to hit before you die with Ghaz (Orks is never beaten), you need to at least proceed in to turn two or 3 then to get off both a healing and hitting twice with ghaz.
Anyway, Deepstrike in, or Da jump in the Tankbustas and rain carnage over the enemy as they will rutinely kill way above their own price tag of 315 points, preferably da jump (with 30 boys you just need to roll 4, which is easy). While you do this, your boys just take the field as they would in a normal Goff army. You dont run any Mega Nobz, as your tankbustas are meant to deal with the majority of the heavy vehicles before they get mauled the next turn (because they WILL die the next turn, the enemy needs to dedicate to this), and if they cant ghaz is still alive, or boys can swarm the enemy + Mek Gunz.
The Mek Gunz still provide fire support from the backline, so if you can bust the T8 vehicles with tankbustas, then at least Toughness 7 vehicles arent that difficult to wound with Mek Gunz. I have thought about not running Warphead and just keeping da jump on the Weirdboy though just to get more CP. Some of you blokes talked about warpath being less useful in a goff army anyway.
Regardless, ive had some pretty damn good success from this list despite everything. I didnt really think it would be good, but da jumping bad moon tankbustas in to the enemy face to wreck the important targets really makes your opponent sweat. Sure they die the turn after, but ive always, even on my worst rolls, gotten my points back in efficiency. Mostly i gain around 400-500 points worth of killing before my own tankbustas died. Some of the better armies i hadnt beat before with my traditional Goff army with Mega Nobz were suddenly.. victories now.
Its done me well, but what do you guys think? Could you forsee some issues with the army?
gungo wrote: Can anyone tell if the new boys are on 24mm or 32mm bases
Base on the pictures and trend for Ork models near their size being repackaged, I'd say 32mm.
But anyway before GW's official stance has been if they came with the base, that's fine. Came. Past tense. You would be fine.
Now in their official tournaments you are going to have to rebase anyway even your old models.
Their new rules irk the heck out of me. While I get why they did it, it's rough to join and grow these tournaments with others between the new demands of rebasing and painting differences per detachment. It helps streamline things and end confusion, but GW is assuming or wanting people to have very large, unrealistic collections for the average person.
In FL you have a pretty large tournament scene, and a pretty big base of people who are right on the edge of trying it out. But now? Just another reason not to join. For example my wife already did a tournament or two but if she had to repaint half her nids to match her detachments? Yeah... no.
As for me, I'm... kind of screwed. I bought a lot of boyz second hand on 24 bases. Got them super cheap and beyond happy, but the one big issue is the dude used some sort of industry insane glue not just under the ork feet, but all over it. A few boyz actually have their feet chopped off from what looks like rebasing attempts on fancy GW bases (pretty wild). Covered it with mud to make it look like their just dredging through terrain. No way though I'm getting them all on 32. Also half the boyz are painted in random colors and everything I bought, built and painted is Evil Sunz colors. So can't go goff horde at a tournament if I wanted to. Also begs the question what I do with Ghaz, as I painted him as an Evil Sunz lol.
There are companies that sell base extenders you can just clip around the old base. But ya I get what your saying. This will just make boys harder to maneuver and harder to get into combat… but I’m going to need to buy at least 70 extenders and touch up paint the bases and then buy a bunch of new movement trays.
Regarding the bikes hitting like wet noodles. I’d be fine with them having a better dakka Gun with more shots like assault 5, str5 ap-1 x2… give them a way to be objective secured and you have a reason to take them over brady snagga riders which are bound to just be much better in melee..
For example - Want to do Octarius data with one unit twice? Need to move your units from wholy within to wholy within over 12” gap. Stormboyz have 12” move. 3” plus makes it possible.
I'm not following this. You can't perform actions while inside of a trukk.
BDBurrow wrote: You can only fit 6 jump pack models in a trukk, and there's a unit of 10 boyz sitting around doing nothing if that's the case. IMO the boyz go in the trukk or else they would be grots.
i mean you are entitled to your opinion, but there was an interview on frontline gaming about his army (40k stat center) and his unit of stormboyz in a trukk had surprising range and did good work in denying points. He did manage to do quite well vs unnerfed DE in a high level tournament way better than either of us is doing so while i agree its probably not how i would play in a fun game its worth considering for tournaments as a long range point denial unit
So the stormboyz are never at any point being transported up the table. He's just using the trukk for the extra 3" disembark like Tomsug suggested. At which point, the unit of 10 boyz is likely jumping in for your standard trukk boyz unit.
i would have to find some games to be sure but the way he describes it i am not seeing it as just getting the extra 3 inches from disembark. though admitadly it also could be, he just mentions them as in the truck then "zooming out of the truck" my mind interprets this as probably advance turn 1 in the trukk to get where needed to have that metal box of protection so they don't get deleted
BDBurrow wrote: So the stormboyz are never at any point being transported up the table. He's just using the trukk for the extra 3" disembark like Tomsug suggested. At which point, the unit of 10 boyz is likely jumping in for your standard trukk boyz unit.
Not exactly. This is just one option. You can move them in the trukk and do something like this in another turn. As I said, 12-14” is a magic distance. Stormboyz alone are under the line. Putting them in the trukk solve this movement problem + give them protection they need + allows them to make a mess even in T1.
The point is:
Cheap metal protecting box + extra movement + new secondaries = nasty VP scoring tricks in W40 9.1
You know… Trukk with the MANz or Tankbustas is an obvious target. Trukk with 5 Stormboyz? Pffff who cares…. Anybody who sees how 9.1 works! I ' m not sure I “see” but I feel, that such small fast obsec bastards can change the game. And it' s valid vice versa - I gonna kill any of such units in opponents army as soon possible.
Do you know what makes my buggy list suffer? 2 units of nurglins or what was it. Deepstriking somehow in T1 or deployment in front of my army few inches in front of me such stupid way, they block my movement. Dense table gives you cover they said. Dense table keep your safe they said. Bloody hell! Dense table allows these bastards to lock me in my deploy! I speak about such way of thinking. I like it. It was clever
Yeah, I ' ve saw the interview and it' s exactly what I said - “Stormboyz have won my games.” he said. Not a specific trick. Just combination of metal box + jetpacks + obsec. And that' s it.
Btw.. does all american ork players looks the same, or is he some famous player? I remeber interview with him from couple of other videos in last few years.
Well I definitely love the +3'' trick for stormboyz but disagree about the trukk giving them protection.
In the player's list the lone trukk was the only vehicle, mek gunz aside which would likely be far from action and out of range from many weapons. That means that ALL the anti elite/tank with low-mid range (AKA melta and plasma!!!) will target the trukk as Ghaz can only get a few wounds off shooting, and once the vehicle is wrecked the unit is blasted off the table immediately.
Those stormboyz on the other hand are just five dudes, it's extremely easy to hide them by using terrain and they have native high M stat and FLY anyway.
If the trukk moves they can't disembark and if the trukk isn't hidden, which is defintiely harder than hiding 5 infantries, it doesn't give them any protection as it's the only valuable target for the enemy heavy firepower and will likely get destroyed.
Blackie wrote: Well I definitely love the +3'' trick for stormboyz but disagree about the trukk giving them protection.
In the player's list the lone trukk was the only vehicle, mek gunz aside which would likely be far from action and out of range from many weapons. That means that ALL the anti elite/tank with low-mid range (AKA melta and plasma!!!) will target the trukk as Ghaz can only get a few wounds off shooting, and once the vehicle is wrecked the unit is blasted off the table immediately.
Those stormboyz on the other hand are just five dudes, it's extremely easy to hide them by using terrain and they have native high M stat and FLY anyway.
If the trukk moves they can't disembark and if the trukk isn't hidden, which is defintiely harder than hiding 5 infantries, it doesn't give them any protection as it's the only valuable target for the enemy heavy firepower and will likely get destroyed.
That' s true, but not fully right.
This dude dominated pretty big GT with this trick and defeted 2 drukkari and one deathguard experienced playiers at least. So the question is not “why it cannot work”. The question is, “how does he used them to be so great”.
Obviously, protection is pretty soft. Have to zooming around on the edge of the battle.
BDBurrow wrote: So the stormboyz are never at any point being transported up the table. He's just using the trukk for the extra 3" disembark like Tomsug suggested. At which point, the unit of 10 boyz is likely jumping in for your standard trukk boyz unit.
Not exactly. This is just one option. You can move them in the trukk and do something like this in another turn. As I said, 12-14” is a magic distance. Stormboyz alone are under the line. Putting them in the trukk solve this movement problem + give them protection they need + allows them to make a mess even in T1.
The point is:
Cheap metal protecting box + extra movement + new secondaries = nasty VP scoring tricks in W40 9.1
You know… Trukk with the MANz or Tankbustas is an obvious target. Trukk with 5 Stormboyz? Pffff who cares…. Anybody who sees how 9.1 works! I ' m not sure I “see” but I feel, that such small fast obsec bastards can change the game. And it' s valid vice versa - I gonna kill any of such units in opponents army as soon possible.
Do you know what makes my buggy list suffer? 2 units of nurglins or what was it. Deepstriking somehow in T1 or deployment in front of my army few inches in front of me such stupid way, they block my movement. Dense table gives you cover they said. Dense table keep your safe they said. Bloody hell! Dense table allows these bastards to lock me in my deploy! I speak about such way of thinking. I like it. It was clever
Yeah, I ' ve saw the interview and it' s exactly what I said - “Stormboyz have won my games.” he said. Not a specific trick. Just combination of metal box + jetpacks + obsec. And that' s it.
Btw.. does all american ork players looks the same, or is he some famous player? I remeber interview with him from couple of other videos in last few years.
on do all american ork players look like that... look we know what physical perfection looks like, we see it in the ork codex :0. that said i mean he kind of looks like a typical middleage american to me, not many people i know after age 40 go to the gym regularly. Some do but its a pretty small segment of the population.
on do all american ork players look like that... look we know what physical perfection looks like, we see it in the ork codex :0. that said i mean he kind of looks like a typical middleage american to me, not many people i know after age 40 go to the gym regularly. Some do but its a pretty small segment of the population.
He seems to be a good buddy for a beer. I like the way how he speaks.
Wtf, ork codex in july? but the ork boxes for beast snaggas would come with a codex, and that should arrive BEFORE the codex could be bought alone?
This cant be right. Or shouldnt be. the Beastsnagga box would then arrive earlier in july and the codex late july?
It should be able to preorder in july only.. Something seems wrong.
but hey if they speed things along im not complaining. we're almost in july and they havent showed off a ton of the models yet so my time table cant make that information fit with them releasing a bunch of ork models before the codex in july.
But it would appear that this fellow is also in the new patrol box for beast snaggas along the codex. Im not complaining there.
Beardedragon wrote: Wtf, ork codex in july? but the ork boxes for beast snaggas would come with a codex, and that should arrive BEFORE the codex could be bought alone?
This cant be right. Or shouldnt be. the Beastsnagga box would then arrive earlier in july and the codex late july?
It should be able to preorder in july only.. Something seems wrong.
but hey if they speed things along im not complaining. we're almost in july and they havent showed off a ton of the models yet so my time table cant make that information fit with them releasing a bunch of ork models before the codex in july.
But it would appear that this fellow is also in the new patrol box for beast snaggas along the codex. Im not complaining there.
Yaeh, makes sence. Pre-order of the box in July, but it comes in Orktober. And the Codex alone will be available in September so those, who buy the box to get the codex early, would have them later. It makes absolutely sence.
So I've been playing in a local crusade league running an infantry heavy deffskullz army and having a ton of fun. One thing I love about crusade is an unlimited amount of warlord traits and relics. I've been able to try out all kinds of goodies that I don't normally run. A few notes;
1) Headwoppas Killchoppa is actually pretty good on the biker boss. He absolutely eats through storm shields. He has the might is right WT and da biggest boss, giving him 7 attacks, hitting on 2s (1 reroll), strength 9 so for this example wounding on 2s (1 reroll) with 6s causing 2 MWs, AP -2 which is optimal against storm shields. The 2 damage could be better but the MWs help with that. He's been an absolute beast so far. I might like it better than the brutal but kunnin / killsaw option.
2) kunnin but brutal is so underrated. I'm running it on my weirdboy with maniacal seizures and warpath so I can effectively deploy as if I'm going 2nd and then redeploy D3 units + weirdboy into a more offensive position if I win 1st turn. Depending on the matchup, that could be a big blog of Boyz and warboss, or some deff dreads with KMBs.
Anyway, having fun with crusade. Anyone else have some crusade experiences to share?
BDBurrow wrote: So I've been playing in a local crusade league running an infantry heavy deffskullz army and having a ton of fun. One thing I love about crusade is an unlimited amount of warlord traits and relics. I've been able to try out all kinds of goodies that I don't normally run. A few notes;
1) Headwoppas Killchoppa is actually pretty good on the biker boss. He absolutely eats through storm shields. He has the might is right WT and da biggest boss, giving him 7 attacks, hitting on 2s (1 reroll), strength 9 so for this example wounding on 2s (1 reroll) with 6s causing 2 MWs, AP -2 which is optimal against storm shields. The 2 damage could be better but the MWs help with that. He's been an absolute beast so far. I might like it better than the brutal but kunnin / killsaw option.
2) kunnin but brutal is so underrated. I'm running it on my weirdboy with maniacal seizures and warpath so I can effectively deploy as if I'm going 2nd and then redeploy D3 units + weirdboy into a more offensive position if I win 1st turn. Depending on the matchup, that could be a big blog of Boyz and warboss, or some deff dreads with KMBs.
Anyway, having fun with crusade. Anyone else have some crusade experiences to share?
Awesome to hear you're having fun with crusade! That's actually one of the other things I'm looking forward to in our new Ork codex is more faction specific goodies for us to play with. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to do any since the pandemic started, but I feel like its one of the areas where we can play a lot more in terms of unconventional builds like yours since it isn't as cuthroat compared to matched play.
Beardedragon wrote: Wtf, ork codex in july? but the ork boxes for beast snaggas would come with a codex, and that should arrive BEFORE the codex could be bought alone?
This cant be right. Or shouldnt be. the Beastsnagga box would then arrive earlier in july and the codex late july?
It should be able to preorder in july only.. Something seems wrong.
but hey if they speed things along im not complaining. we're almost in july and they havent showed off a ton of the models yet so my time table cant make that information fit with them releasing a bunch of ork models before the codex in july.
But it would appear that this fellow is also in the new patrol box for beast snaggas along the codex. Im not complaining there.
there were some rumors of an imperial guard/ ork box with the gaunts ghost and new guardsman with the new ork and guard stuff in one. maybe they will have both cedexes in there. Wishlisting here, but if GW is starting a trend of the codex in the start collecting boxes would be cool. honestly it would make sense as they get more $ and people would likely elect to spend more for a discount on models and getting the book each edition
So gutted in away with work so of July and early August! Hopefully my wife can pick me up a box. Anyway we all know that codexes are easily accessible in the dark corners of the web anyway so it's not like we won't at least have the rules to play with.
Vineheart01 wrote: Pfft orktober is a fan thing anyway.
Every time GW has mentioned it they were laughably late.
Even Kromlech does a far better job at Orktober than GW does.
When they called it Orktober officialy - with the buggies - they made preorder 29th of Orktober so you recieved it in December.
Now nobody speaks about it, so I hope, they hit the right month.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rogerio134134 wrote: So gutted in away with work so of July and early August! Hopefully my wife can pick me up a box. Anyway we all know that codexes are easily accessible in the dark corners of the web anyway so it's not like we won't at least have the rules to play with.
Hmm you mean - waste the energy everybody wants to buy the book (shut up and take my money wave) and postpone the sell of the codex alone for few months to let everybody desperately looking for stats in Battlescribe, print the bad photos of datasheet from handy or simply use some notoriously known pages with the rules up-to date ?
It makes no sence. So it could be true
Oh, maybe I get it. GW used to have some official app with the rules. Maybe they want to promote it this way. Does it even exist? Does anybody use it btw.?
Jidmah wrote: Well, I haven't entered the code from any of my books into the app so far
My gripe is that you have to pay a monthly subscription for the app, just feels like you are getting fleeced since you still need to buy the codex to access it digitally.
Jidmah wrote: Well, I haven't entered the code from any of my books into the app so far
My gripe is that you have to pay a monthly subscription for the app, just feels like you are getting fleeced since you still need to buy the codex to access it digitally.
All morality issues aside - the 40k app doesn't provide me with anything I need, so I'm not using it. When using three different third party tools is vastly superior to your one tool, you messed up big time as a software developer.
Jidmah wrote: Well, I haven't entered the code from any of my books into the app so far
My gripe is that you have to pay a monthly subscription for the app, just feels like you are getting fleeced since you still need to buy the codex to access it digitally.
All morality issues aside - the 40k app doesn't provide me with anything I need, so I'm not using it. When using three different third party tools is vastly superior to your one tool, you messed up big time as a software developer.
For real though, I'd like to see how much money they've actually dumped into the app, because it's giving me flashbacks of when GW proudly announced their overhauled website which was managed by Kirby's wife and it seemed like it was just an excuse to funnel more money down the CEO's way from the company.
Yeah its pretty insulting when an app has a subscription cost AND additional fees.
If youre gonna charge for the rules individually the app theyre hosted on should be free.
Thats why i refuse to use it.
For some reason the AoS one has all the unit rules in it for free, its the battalions and faction-specific rules that arent free (such as army-wide bonuses or relics or traits).
Beardedragon wrote: I mean. Im not even sure why i shouldnt just run battlescribe and use my internet service on my phone to check wahapedia when i need
Pretty much. If there's one thing we Ork players know about, it's how to be a miserly Freeboota!
Jidmah wrote: Well, I haven't entered the code from any of my books into the app so far
My gripe is that you have to pay a monthly subscription for the app, just feels like you are getting fleeced since you still need to buy the codex to access it digitally.
All morality issues aside - the 40k app doesn't provide me with anything I need, so I'm not using it. When using three different third party tools is vastly superior to your one tool, you messed up big time as a software developer.
For real though, I'd like to see how much money they've actually dumped into the app, because it's giving me flashbacks of when GW proudly announced their overhauled website which was managed by Kirby's wife and it seemed like it was just an excuse to funnel more money down the CEO's way from the company.
I design software for a living and am involved projects very similar as GWs store and app regularly, since that is pretty much what every company wants and needs. That said, neither the costs of the web store nor the failure of the app project are something particularly unique to GW. It's just what happens when you are trying to get software build for your when you have no clue how that works.
For every big company that doesn't have a natural affinity for the digital world, it goes through the same steps: The web store was the first project, where they just hired the all-inclusive service where they got handed the finished project in the end, among with a gigantic bill. For the second project, the app, they'll do everything much better, by hiring a developer studio and telling them personally what do to. This results in an app that no one actually needs, because the project manager doesn't actually have a clue how to build software. For the third project then they start hiring their own software development team, because they came to the conclusion only the company knows what the company wants. The success varies wildly on the company culture - so expect a software on the same level as all the other products
And I'm not even assuming on the third part - just look at what GW is currently hiring
Also please keep in mind that dakka does have a rather strickt policy on piracy. Mods don't come down here unless called, but let's still honor their whishes - after all, we Iz gitz of kulture, ain't we?
on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.
As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage
G00fySmiley wrote: on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.
As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage
Waahapedia is also fairly decent for that sort of reference work. Do you find it of any use?
In any case, GW is in the breaking point period regarding their business model. Remeber - warhammer is the child of 80s. No internet. No 3d print making 3rd company parts easy. No 3d print making homeprint easy. No online multiplayer games. Time of pure buy&bring home a box busiess models vs. todays “make subscription for anything”. No Customers requiring working apps with data servises. Oh yes and no “creater your own online game from scratch softwares” like TTS.
All this is brand new terrain and the terrain is still moving. GW created a marvelous game and marvelous universe with bold bunch of stories behind. And makes a great models. And great communities. In fact, they created original typology - warhammer shop selling the stuff, which is a game room for free for anybody in the same time.
So there are all the costs on their side still valid - design& develop of the game, models and universe, game clubs, tournaments,….
But their income source is under heavy fire. Printed books with the rules? Printed books at all? Expensive plastic models?
I hope they find the way how to manage it. I believe, the “one app rule them all” with the rules etc. charged monthly, GW shop with models for your own 3D print, shop with the 3D models on Steam and official online version of TTS etc. is the future.
So you can kitbash your models from huge offer of various parts and play the same model IRL and in GW-TTS in the same time. And as a shareholded, I hope the heads of GW see it to and working on it.
Anyway, this is little bit out of topic, isn' t it?
I have a narrative game against a friend tonight but still don't want to get flattened and was just wondering what people thought the best size for mobs of Boyz on foot was? Playing 1500 points and I'm using deffskulls. Was thinking of one big mob of 30 baked up by Mek with KFF and painboy and then 2 smaller mobs of around 15 each to just sit on objectives and be annoying.
Back to the topic - Da Propa Brutal and Kunnyn Ork Tactic.
My Mekshop produced inscale drawings of the missions incl some stats to make a plans. Helps me to think about the gameplans and secondaries. I hope you find it useful.
Do you know, some of the deploys are almost twice as big as another one? And watch the “ 12” from enemy deploy” zone… some secondaries has bigger chance in some mission obviously. Which is nothing super new I know, but see it so with hard numbers and facts, it' s pretty i teresting for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And some older “how can you screen the field againts 9” with Mek gunz or Buggies” pictures
PaddyMick wrote: Tomsug, those look cool, but what do the numbers mean?
Priority = number of objectives to hold to score primary VP Deploy = size of the deployment square inches
Engage T1 = in ho many quaters can 12”M unit come in T1 to score Engage. Some misions are obviously more specific then other.
Green lines = 6” center and 6” from edge of other quater and 12” from enemy deploy
Second picture = distances, mostly showing how dar is it in T1 to enemy deploy - T1 charge and “in opponent deploy” secondaries
Third picture - red lines 9” screen, blue is the shooting range, etc.
Rogerio134134 wrote: I have a narrative game against a friend tonight but still don't want to get flattened and was just wondering what people thought the best size for mobs of Boyz on foot was? Playing 1500 points and I'm using deffskulls. Was thinking of one big mob of 30 baked up by Mek with KFF and painboy and then 2 smaller mobs of around 15 each to just sit on objectives and be annoying.
The Mek with KFF isn't really worth it when running deffskullz since you already have an inherent 6++ and the KFF is only vs shooting. The painboy is only really worth it if you have a weirdboy (or ghaz) to heal. I usually run both a warboss on foot and a warboss on bike w/ deffskullz.
If I'm foot slogging Boyz it's only ever blobs of 30 for the extra attacks and greentide. Boyz are too squishy. I'd recommend lots of meganobz with deffskullz horde. S4 Boyz aren't very killy.
G00fySmiley wrote: on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.
As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage
Waahapedia is also fairly decent for that sort of reference work. Do you find it of any use?
i'll have to check it out after work but will do so. I currently use battelscribe and just buy codexes. I still want to give GW monetary incentive to keep doing rules i just would rather do so digitally and them to realize there is a lot of money to be made that way rather than just raising prices on plastic. I don't think many 40k, 30k, or sigmar players would bat an eye at a $10 a month app for all the rules.
Gonna put this out there. I played against a Custodes player in a 1K tourney last weekend. Took a goff green tide. Yes failing charges in the first turn even with Da jump and a few good runs didn't help but he had the firepower to absolutely shred my boyz. And I always thought they were meant to struggle against hordes.
cody.d. wrote: Gonna put this out there. I played against a Custodes player in a 1K tourney last weekend. Took a goff green tide. Yes failing charges in the first turn even with Da jump and a few good runs didn't help but he had the firepower to absolutely shred my boyz. And I always thought they were meant to struggle against hordes.
At 1K custodes should definitely struggle against hordes, to counter 90 boys he probably had tons of bikes, which is a skewed list. But you also played a skewed list, that's the rock/paper/scissor attitude that comes with tournaments.
most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn.
I agree, but at the same time no army should 1-shot something like a knight in the shooting phase. Unfortunately that's not how GW designed the game.
What should defininitely be avoided is having armies than can 1-shot a knight AND kill 60 boyz in the same turn.
+1T on orks means nothing without seeing the whole picture. While the buff seems good now it's entirely possible that the new boyz will be worse than the current ones, even less durable if they become too expensive.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn.
I agree, but at the same time no army should 1-shot something like a knight in the shooting phase. Unfortunately that's not how GW designed the game.
What should defininitely be avoided is having armies than can 1-shot a knight AND kill 60 boyz in the same turn.
+1T on orks means nothing without seeing the whole picture. While the buff seems good now it's entirely possible that the new boyz will be worse than the current ones, even less durable if they become too expensive.
I agree, but don't forget ap-1 is coming along WITH the toughness 5 increase. Both are well deserved, but the more I think about it, the less I see boyz staying 8 ppm. And we don't want to be the new broken (or at least meta shaping) faction now, do we ?
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
I don't know. To me boyz should always have been T5 and AP-1 to justify their 8ppm cost. I'd charge +1/2ppm for skarboyz instead, like trueborns for drukhari.
Standard boyz are pretty trash outside goffs buffs. And Greentide stratagem will likely go.
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
Jidmah remembers.
Back when the KFF gave cover saves (good god were Heldrakes scary for us back at the start of 6th) instead of invulns and the PK Nob did all the work in close combat compared to the boyz, good times. I miss bosspoles doing something too tbh.
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
Jidmah remembers.
I wish I could experience this...
I mean you technically still can, the 5th ed rules are likely all over the net as a pdf of some sort and same with the Ork codex, if you can find someone to do a retro game with you, you can somewhat relive the years before reroll bubbles and super damage spikes existed.
i'll be honest, I hated the boss pole with a passion. I can't remember how many times I had to re-glue that fiddly little thing back onto my nobz.
As far as 9th edition codex goes, I am leaning more towards GW giving boyz a ridiculous price increase that will make them functionally useless. The problem with doing that is that all our "specialist" troops are based on a boyz profile so they will likely see a similar points increase and when our weapons get "buffed" we get yet another price increase. Anyone ready to pay 25ppm for a 3 shot loota? I know I'm not.
SemperMortis wrote: i'll be honest, I hated the boss pole with a passion. I can't remember how many times I had to re-glue that fiddly little thing back onto my nobz.
As far as 9th edition codex goes, I am leaning more towards GW giving boyz a ridiculous price increase that will make them functionally useless. The problem with doing that is that all our "specialist" troops are based on a boyz profile so they will likely see a similar points increase and when our weapons get "buffed" we get yet another price increase. Anyone ready to pay 25ppm for a 3 shot loota? I know I'm not.
Oh gork, now you got me thinking of how they'll INFLATE the price of a burna boy. It's so funny that it's probably going to happen. Lootas and Burnas haven't been competitively relevant for the longest time now, so I guess they may as well double down. I bet you a penny-squig that burnas are also flat 3 shots but they'll keep the 8" range rather than the new 12" everyone else gets. WOOO
Burnas are even less valuable in the new codex if they arent revamped since now the base choppa has ap1.
The whole point of a burna is it was a flamer that had an AP2 melee profile.
Yeah im not paying 3x the price for AP2 melee as it is when its +2 ap compared to choppas, definitely not when its +1 aplol Even if the burna goes 12" (expected) and gains AP1 in shooting (not expected), pass lol
Vineheart01 wrote: Burnas are even less valuable in the new codex if they arent revamped since now the base choppa has ap1.
The whole point of a burna is it was a flamer that had an AP2 melee profile.
Yeah im not paying 3x the price for AP2 melee as it is when its +2 ap compared to choppas, definitely not when its +1 aplol Even if the burna goes 12" (expected) and gains AP1 in shooting (not expected), pass lol
I completely forgot that their weapons profile is actually worse now with the choppa update. Geeez, poor guys can't catch a break. They need burnas to effectively become power swords in CC or have a bespoke rule of gaining +1D and rerolling failed wound rolls against vehicles to even be worth taking against stuff.
Vineheart01 wrote: Burnas are even less valuable in the new codex if they arent revamped since now the base choppa has ap1.
The whole point of a burna is it was a flamer that had an AP2 melee profile.
Yeah im not paying 3x the price for AP2 melee as it is when its +2 ap compared to choppas, definitely not when its +1 aplol Even if the burna goes 12" (expected) and gains AP1 in shooting (not expected), pass lol
Its even worse my friends
In CC A single boy vs a T4 3+ save model gets 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound and 0.33dmg
A Burna Boy got 2 attacks, 1.33 hits, 0.66 wounds and 0.44dmg.
A boy is 8ppm and a burnaboy is 11. So the Boy is doing 0.04125 dmg per point The Burna boy is doing 0.04 Technically at a very small level the boy is MORE points efficient than the Burna at CC.
Now? Assuming no price increases? That boy is doing 0.5dmg or 0.0625 dmg per point and the burna is still doing 0.04 so the Boy is now 50% more effective in CC than a Burnaboy armed with a defacto power sword. And that is before you even get into the inherent benefits of boyz over burnaboyz. IE +1 attack w/20+ boyz, better leadership, more bang for your buck when you buff with Warpath etc.
At the moment, a Burnaboy is literally worse than a choppa boy in basically every scenario. Its shorter range than a pistol, averages 2 hits a turn but it cant shoot in CC which is where it really wants to be with its -2AP CCW...except that it lacks any real reason to be there because a choppa boy is still better. And durability wise, you can take 4 ork boyz for every 3 Burnaboyz.
SemperMortis wrote: i'll be honest, I hated the boss pole with a passion. I can't remember how many times I had to re-glue that fiddly little thing back onto my nobz.
As far as 9th edition codex goes, I am leaning more towards GW giving boyz a ridiculous price increase that will make them functionally useless. The problem with doing that is that all our "specialist" troops are based on a boyz profile so they will likely see a similar points increase and when our weapons get "buffed" we get yet another price increase. Anyone ready to pay 25ppm for a 3 shot loota? I know I'm not.
From mathing out the PL of the beast snagga box, beast snaggas will absolutely not be more than 11ppm, most like 9 or 10. Choppa boyz will be 1 or 2 points less than those.
I can totally see them keeping boyz at 8 but axing the green tide stratagems and scarboyz to compensate.
As for lootas - in my recent silly trukk horde game I had two units of 9 with klever spanna (because it's just 1 CP that way) and they worked surprisingly well, even without grot shield and shoot twice. That said AP-1 is still a rather big problem. I would be very surprised if they go up in points.
A nerf I do see coming from a mile away though is tank bustas - rokkit pistols and tankhammers will become mandatory, and the beast snagga riders are already advertised as tank hunters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Burnas are even less valuable in the new codex if they arent revamped since now the base choppa has ap1.
The whole point of a burna is it was a flamer that had an AP2 melee profile.
Yeah im not paying 3x the price for AP2 melee as it is when its +2 ap compared to choppas, definitely not when its +1 aplol Even if the burna goes 12" (expected) and gains AP1 in shooting (not expected), pass lol
Burnas need to go to 2 damage in melee - that would give them back their purpose as marine killers.
G00fySmiley wrote: on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.
As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage
Waahapedia is also fairly decent for that sort of reference work. Do you find it of any use?
i'll have to check it out after work but will do so. I currently use battelscribe and just buy codexes. I still want to give GW monetary incentive to keep doing rules i just would rather do so digitally and them to realize there is a lot of money to be made that way rather than just raising prices on plastic. I don't think many 40k, 30k, or sigmar players would bat an eye at a $10 a month app for all the rules.
I use BS and used to get the Codexes as well. The last few ones I've seen, they really cut the lore down pretty hardcore. My 8th ones at least had a lore page dedicated to nearly every unit. Going to have to see how thick the new codex is before I buy.
As for burnas, ignorant question. Did they always have a melee profile? Always found it odd when you look at their weapons and think that thing melees somehow lol
G00fySmiley wrote: on the app ... yea if GW made the monthly fee include updating codexes i would happily pay for it and pay more than they currently charge, as it stands i don't see the value.
As for the codex I will grab the box set as soon as i can with the codex... and maybe some charming intelligent Mal'al worshiper will frantically stay up to update battlescribe files as quick as their little typo prone fingers can manage
Waahapedia is also fairly decent for that sort of reference work. Do you find it of any use?
i'll have to check it out after work but will do so. I currently use battelscribe and just buy codexes. I still want to give GW monetary incentive to keep doing rules i just would rather do so digitally and them to realize there is a lot of money to be made that way rather than just raising prices on plastic. I don't think many 40k, 30k, or sigmar players would bat an eye at a $10 a month app for all the rules.
I use BS and used to get the Codexes as well. The last few ones I've seen, they really cut the lore down pretty hardcore. My 8th ones at least had a lore page dedicated to nearly every unit. Going to have to see how thick the new codex is before I buy.
As for burnas, ignorant question. Did they always have a melee profile? Always found it odd when you look at their weapons and think that thing melees somehow lol
as long as i have been playing the burnas have had a power weapon profile. its supposed to represent their battlefield/ after battle role where they use their flamer as a cutting torch to slice up tanks etc. i have a plasma cutter myself fo rmetal working and while its not really going to quickly cut through metal it doe sand add some scifi tech and i could see it. it is also the justification as to why our flamers have to be only D3 shots instead of d6 like all other flamers since our shave a melee profile
SemperMortis wrote: i'll be honest, I hated the boss pole with a passion. I can't remember how many times I had to re-glue that fiddly little thing back onto my nobz.
As far as 9th edition codex goes, I am leaning more towards GW giving boyz a ridiculous price increase that will make them functionally useless. The problem with doing that is that all our "specialist" troops are based on a boyz profile so they will likely see a similar points increase and when our weapons get "buffed" we get yet another price increase. Anyone ready to pay 25ppm for a 3 shot loota? I know I'm not.
From mathing out the PL of the beast snagga box, beast snaggas will absolutely not be more than 11ppm, most like 9 or 10. Choppa boyz will be 1 or 2 points less than those.
I can totally see them keeping boyz at 8 but axing the green tide stratagems and scarboyz to compensate.
As for lootas - in my recent silly trukk horde game I had two units of 9 with klever spanna (because it's just 1 CP that way) and they worked surprisingly well, even without grot shield and shoot twice. That said AP-1 is still a rather big problem. I would be very surprised if they go up in points.
A nerf I do see coming from a mile away though is tank bustas - rokkit pistols and tankhammers will become mandatory, and the beast snagga riders are already advertised as tank hunters.
Even if you average 3 shots a turn a single loota is doing 0.78dmg a turn to a Marine out of cover, and honestly a T4 2wound model is about the most ideal target for a loota at the moment and even then it would take 3 lootas to average 1 dead Marine a turn.
My general rule of thumb is a ranged unit should make back 1/3rd its cost a turn when shooting at its ideal target. Lootas almost do that if they AVERAGE 3 shots a turn. The problem is that Lootas also fall into the category of "Glass Cannon". If they don't do damage immediately they die. The solution to that as we mentioned together in general forums and what you did in your list, is to put them in a trukk, but this artificially raises their price by 6-7ppm and adds nothing in regards to dmg potential. So now those 3 lootas are 26-27ppm and are struggling to kill a single Marine, and now the math is 81pts to kill a single 18pt Marine, or less than 25%.
A single Heavy Bolter marine right now is 28ppm and is doing 1.33dmg a turn to a Marine atm. Loota has more range, costs 8ppm less (atm), weapon is +2 strength, while the Marine is BS3, has 2 wounds and a 3+ save.
I just don't see a place for a loota in our lists right now because of how OP other armies weapons have become. a D3 shot weapon that hits on 5s is just not going to cut it. Jokingly before I mentioned D3+3 might be feasible to make a loota worth taking....now? Yeah, even without a price hike that would still not be game breaking...hell that would still have it putting out LESS dmg than a heavy bolter Marine. 5 shot average, 1.94 hits on average, 1.29 wounds, 0.65ish unsaved wounds for 1.29dmg a turn.
Think about that, against infantry a Heavy bolter is more effective than a D3+3 Deffgun The benefit for the Loota would be against T3,5,6 and 7. So maybe give it a minor price bump, but realistically its still going to die significantly faster thanks to its lack of armor.
I think that was brought in with the 4th edition codex. It was interesting enough, in a turn you could either use your standard template flamer or you could use it as a powersword. But not both. It felt fun enough, a burnaboy unit with "cuttin' flame" as it was called would utterly slice through a marine squad.
In theory a full squad of burnas nowdays that can get a round of both shooting and melee could do, okay? But it's tricky to imagine a scenario where you can slap down the 8" ranged attack against a chaff unit and then charge something with a decent save to cut through.
I do miss the days when you could just stick them in an opened topped transport drive up to something then put down the template and go, well I caught 5 models in your unit and have 15 models in the wagon, sooooo 75 hits. Even termies dropped to that. Especially termies cause of deepstrike required you to deploy in tight circles. Ah, good times.
issue with that is they woulnt even be firing at anything except what they want to charge, even with 12" range.
And any smart player would remove from the front in that case to make the inevitable charge a bit harder.
Flamers as a whole have that problem except on units that arent trying to charge anyway.
I'm planning on bringing a Stompa for my new Ork army, is a block of 20 boyz probably the best option to roll around with? It kind of seems like obsec would be super important to truck around.
I think that was brought in with the 4th edition codex. It was interesting enough, in a turn you could either use your standard template flamer or you could use it as a powersword. But not both. It felt fun enough, a burnaboy unit with "cuttin' flame" as it was called would utterly slice through a marine squad.
Burnas had the double profile (power weapon/template) also in the 3rd edition codex. But burnaboyz were just slugga/choppa boyz that could take up to 4 burnas and be led by a mek instead of a nob, back then. Squads of 5-10 but troops. And regular squads of boyz could have 3 burnas anyway which was awesome, especially for skarboyz which had native +1S compared to regular boyz.
Burnas were awesome in 3rd edition, especially as upgrades for regular boyz, skarboyz and trukk boyz (which were fast attack) or for a mek that joined a Warboss' retinue but they still had some value in the following codex, the 4th/5th editions one.
I wish we still could mix and match more heavy and special weapons among boyz.
It would give us more tactical options: Slugga Boyz and Burnas, Deffguns with Shoota Boyz as ablative wounds.
Bonde wrote: I wish we still could mix and match more heavy and special weapons among boyz.
It would give us more tactical options: Slugga Boyz and Burnas, Deffguns with Shoota Boyz as ablative wounds.
Yeah I agree. It would make squads more interesting to model as well. I'm not a fan of the move towards needing a whole new datacard for a specialised load-out.
Bonde wrote: I wish we still could mix and match more heavy and special weapons among boyz. It would give us more tactical options: Slugga Boyz and Burnas, Deffguns with Shoota Boyz as ablative wounds.
Yeah I agree. It would make squads more interesting to model as well. I'm not a fan of the move towards needing a whole new datacard for a specialised load-out.
Realistically, there is a very small chance of that happening, though we don't know what's on the new sprues.
If the bits in the box remain the same, the best chance is to get both a big shoota and a rokkit launcha per 10 models, but the chance of getting options that are not in the box is basically zero.
Beardedragon wrote: most factions can easily deal with hordes. Which is why boys going T5 is deserved.
No army should, in the shooting phase, lay waste to like 60 boys in one turn. A horde should die out over turns, not be basically done in turn 2. Shooting damage potential is so insane in this game and the rewards for going in to close combat are often not as high as the ability to just sit and shoot well, as long as you have some decent melee combatants to support.
Do you remember the times when 9 kanz and 80 boyz with two KFFs were too many models to kill over the course of a game?
Jidmah remembers.
I wish I could experience this...
I mean you technically still can, the 5th ed rules are likely all over the net as a pdf of some sort and same with the Ork codex, if you can find someone to do a retro game with you, you can somewhat relive the years before reroll bubbles and super damage spikes existed.
Dont you need a bunch of gear for that that is no longer sold anywhere?
Just scatter dice, flamer and blast templates, and those are still readily available, especially used ones can be gotten from ebay.
Worst case, make your own.
That said, 5th edition is not as well-written as you are used from 8th or 9th, for me playing a game of 5th was kind of like watching one of those cartoons you liked as a kid, which are a pain to watch today.
There is a poster on dakka who has written a "modern" version of 5h, I suggest to try that if you really want to get some oldschool feels.
Realistically orks are the one faction that shouldnt even have specialized units.
Boyz should just be allowed to bring 5 special weapons per 10 models. Get access to burnas, bigshootas, KMBs, rokkits, or even bigchoppas why not? it makes sense for only nobz or higher to have powerklaws/saws but a bigchoppa can just be a huge hunk of metal the ork picked up randomly. Hell, i'd say that Loot It! should offer the ability to upgrade choppas to bigchoppas on that topic lol
It even makes sense from GW"s current rules methodology. Burnas/rokkits already technically come in a squad of 5 box, just release one with 5 bigchoppa boyz, 5 bigshoota boyz, and some plastic rokkit boyz. They'd never do that of course but it would make sense for orks.
I think that was brought in with the 4th edition codex. It was interesting enough, in a turn you could either use your standard template flamer or you could use it as a powersword. But not both. It felt fun enough, a burnaboy unit with "cuttin' flame" as it was called would utterly slice through a marine squad.
In theory a full squad of burnas nowdays that can get a round of both shooting and melee could do, okay? But it's tricky to imagine a scenario where you can slap down the 8" ranged attack against a chaff unit and then charge something with a decent save to cut through.
I do miss the days when you could just stick them in an opened topped transport drive up to something then put down the template and go, well I caught 5 models in your unit and have 15 models in the wagon, sooooo 75 hits. Even termies dropped to that. Especially termies cause of deepstrike required you to deploy in tight circles. Ah, good times.
Yeah I really love the idea of Burnas and tried running them a few times. Every time though they just felt like a wasted slot where I could have just brought regular boys for the exact same effect but better. Up close murder. The issue with boy variants is t4 at save 6 is just too fragile not to bring something in mass. And if you bring in mass, every point counts.
I do hope theres an added incentive to add a datasheet rule or a strat that they have a chance to blow up upon melee at the very least. Basically acid blood from tyranids for burnas. Makes sense after all. Putting a chainsword through a giant gas canister probably isn't the smartest thing to do.
I played Ghazz, KFF, painboy, weirdboy, 3xboyz, 1xgrots, 3xdeffkopta, 3xkommando and a trukk with 6 meganobz.
deffkopta and kommando doing secondaries.
I played whole match hidden. I DaJumped turn1 and didnt really do a lot of damage, so I decided to stay the rest of the match obscured.
Final score 94-64 or something like this. I could have went like 85-70 but I would have lost anyways.
AdMech is very strong ATM. 6++ DS invulnerable is not enough for the boyz, you need a KFF or the 80 shots F4 will kill 30 boyz, 30 automatic shots with some indirect fire another 30 boyz and you lose in turn 3.
Admech have always been a bit of a difficult matchup for orks.
They have high rate of fire attacks
Their melee is deadly where its not generic fists
Theyre fast and have plenty of fallback shenanigans
Their only real downfall is they are squishy. Bulk of the army is T3 so theyre easily wounded but they still have decent saves so since orks lack high volume attacks with AP theyre still difficult to kill.
I expect that matchup to get a lot better for orks in the new codex, barring some BS pointing for orks. Not favorable for orks but more even.
Hi guys. I have been out of the loop since last summer but wanted to try out a small game. build a 1 list with BattleScribe but gut confused by the cost of the Big meck with KFF, it cost 60p with no additional cost for the KFF as I can see. Is this correct? Thanks for reply, sorry for the blunt question.
Nora wrote: Hi guys. I have been out of the loop since last summer but wanted to try out a small game. build a 1 list with BattleScribe but gut confused by the cost of the Big meck with KFF, it cost 60p with no additional cost for the KFF as I can see. Is this correct? Thanks for reply, sorry for the blunt question.
Yes, 60 points has been confirmed to be correct recently after there was quite some confusion about it. The KFF is part of its base cost.
Nora wrote: Hi guys. I have been out of the loop since last summer but wanted to try out a small game. build a 1 list with BattleScribe but gut confused by the cost of the Big meck with KFF, it cost 60p with no additional cost for the KFF as I can see. Is this correct? Thanks for reply, sorry for the blunt question.
Yes, 60 points has been confirmed to be correct recently after there was quite some confusion about it. The KFF is part of its base cost.
I hope we get a complete rework of the army in the codex.
9th codexes got everything you can imagine. Building armies with 90 bodies T5 won't help gak.
Wych cost 10p and 4++ melee, 3 attacks, poisons and gaks, advance and charge without auras... Jesus christ...
They could give us back the SSAG, lootas + grots, stormboyz cheaper, bikes cheaper, killa kans... Snagga beast seems gak like me. You will never reach a worth vehicle (ironstriders...) with a 6++ running infantry
I wish nothing gets cheaper or significantly cheaper at least, except the Stompa of course. Units need to be better, not cheaper otherwise they could be spammed in huge numbers which isn't healthy.
Bikes for example would be so much better if they get +1T, -1AP in combat and -1AP in shooting without a price hike.
Wyches are much deadlier than boyz (remember they also have the drug to enhance them and obsessions give them great bonuses) but also squishier as at the end of the day they're still a melee-only unit with 1W T3 6++/(4++ only in combat) bodies.
Without the whole picture is flat out impossible to predict what units will be awesome or gak.
Genuinely think T5 and ap-1 in combat for choppas is massive. I played death guard recently and charged a squad of plague marines with 30boyz and basically just totally bounced off their 3+. The -1 ap would have probably meant they all die instead of a few remaining.
I had personally has a good 1500pt game against Deathwatch the other day with my deathskulls. Army was roughly...
Da biggest boss with DKK
Weird boy warp head with maniacal seizure and da jump
KFF Mek
3 X 20 Boyz
5 nobs
3 mega nobz
2 X shokkjumpdragsta
Burna bomba
Trukk
His army was relatively grim with multiple redemptors and big outrider squads, luckily I got first turn and tagged his outriders with my trukk and flying eadbutted my bomber into them as well.
I took a charge from bladeguard a d redemptor before the boss and some Boyz showed up and killed everything. In the end we drew but he had about 3 Eradicators left whereas I had most of my army. A good game and it left me looking forward to the codex.
Speaking of DG, I'll probably be having a game against them again soon and the last time I brought my buggy list I got destroyed pretty hard. What kind of list usually does well against them that Orks can bring? Not sure if green tide is great against them given their horde clearing abilities and resilience to small arms, I assume if I do bring Green Tide, Skarboyz is mandatory because of their T5.
Don't DG have pretty meh anti tank? Perhaps a dreadmob list would do okay? Just plough in there and tie them up while a few cheap units try to hug objectives.
Grimskul wrote:Speaking of DG, I'll probably be having a game against them again soon and the last time I brought my buggy list I got destroyed pretty hard. What kind of list usually does well against them that Orks can bring? Not sure if green tide is great against them given their horde clearing abilities and resilience to small arms, I assume if I do bring Green Tide, Skarboyz is mandatory because of their T5.
If you to bring the tide, make sure you have something that can kill a unit of deathshroud (3W/T5/2+/4++/DR) from a distance, as those can blow through mobs of boyz with no trouble. They usually either walk up the board or deep strike as units of 3. Thrakka can kill them, but it's a gamble, if you're unlucky they can kill him after just one round of combat with overwatch and pistol flamers.
Also be aware of the ferryman plague company - their contagion halves movement and there is a stratagem to toss it onto fast vehicles like drones. This can cripple your entire tide if you don't prevent that drone from moving into your ranks. The other company to look out for is the wretched - they can bring a psyker that can vomit (yes, literally) 10+ mortal wounds onto units too close to him. For all other plague companies, make sure to ask for their company-specific stratagem, like most DG stratagems they are powerful if you get gotcha'ed by them, but can be played around.
Last, but not least, Mortarion lists might be not be winning tournaments because there are some hard-counters to him (most notably Drukhari), but still are a force to be reckoned with. Thrakka can deal a ton of damage to him, but be aware that Mortarion has a chance to kill Thrakka before he gets a second chance to fight. Also, no re-rolls whatsoever against Mortarion in combat.
cody.d. wrote:Don't DG have pretty meh anti tank? Perhaps a dreadmob list would do okay? Just plough in there and tie them up while a few cheap units try to hug objectives.
Death Guard are absolutely vicious in close combat now, charging them with dreads will most likely cause you to lose them. DR is especially bad for dreads armed with saws and the smash profile of nauts. That said, their anti-tank is pretty weak so vehicles with powerful shooting like buggies, kannon wagons, morkanauts or planes are rather decent if you prioritize taking out PBCs.
What a bizarre model. Honestly I thought it was a new big mek.
Conversion idea, put a KFF on its back and make it your new Big Mek with KFF.
As for the psychic power itself, I like it well enough. Gives a fun alternative to damage if you bring more then one psyker. I only wish if you killed a model you got a squig model to control lol.
is it just me or does that new wurrboy look like he belongs in the Fanatics camp of borderlands?
Wonder if he has a save worth speaking of since his shenanigans are 12" (seriously? 12? why is our psyker stuff so dang short ranged) so if he gets anything off hes gonna immediately get dogpiled.
Vineheart01 wrote: is it just me or does that new wurrboy look like he belongs in the Fanatics camp of borderlands?
Wonder if he has a save worth speaking of since his shenanigans are 12" (seriously? 12? why is our psyker stuff so dang short ranged) so if he gets anything off hes gonna immediately get dogpiled.
Yeah, he definitely has the borderlands/mad max vibe with the way he looks. And I feel like if they emphasize his control/being a conduit of the WAAAGH! compared to Weirdboyz, I could see him having some type of WAAAGH! field invuln. Don't know if that will be enough though, since even with T5 or higher he'll get popped by massed attacks easily enough.
More than likely he knows 2 powers, being a conduit of the waaaagh! energy. Or, disgustingly cheap taken in addition to a weirdboy or some other unit so it doesnt take an HQ slot.
Otherwise GW just wasted some plastic and marketing because he would have no place.
He cant be literally that power + smite and thats it. It doesnt have a clause to let you use it multiple times, and GW would never put a non-named character in a design hole that blocks you from using multiples of them.
Vineheart01 wrote: is it just me or does that new wurrboy look like he belongs in the Fanatics camp of borderlands?
Wonder if he has a save worth speaking of since his shenanigans are 12" (seriously? 12? why is our psyker stuff so dang short ranged) so if he gets anything off hes gonna immediately get dogpiled.
Very likely that the squig buggy transport allows psykers to cast while embarked.
It's just odd they led with that. Like if you took this character, and Ork psykers have out of the box been know 1, cast 1, this is a complete waste of your time.
If he knows two at least and this is a utility pick, I'm more bullish on it.
So its not a squad? I got kinda confused by the wording in the article. it souded like they were talking about multiple of wurrbois and I assumed they were talking about a squad of them. Though with the way psykers work I doubt this is actually true. unless theyre like a Tsons squad with this guy being their "sorcerer" and multiple snaggas as backup? would kinda compensate for it being 12" and only one power.
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS I think that maybe this is the snaggas clan psychic power
my guess is the new ork psycher will be in the rumored guard vs ork box with the "early release" codex. man between that and the new 30k GW might be into me for $4-500 bucks soon
Keramory wrote: What a bizarre model. Honestly I thought it was a new big mek.
Conversion idea, put a KFF on its back and make it your new Big Mek with KFF.
As for the psychic power itself, I like it well enough. Gives a fun alternative to damage if you bring more then one psyker. I only wish if you killed a model you got a squig model to control lol.
Very bland and flavourless model... I would never buy this...
Grimskul wrote:Speaking of DG, I'll probably be having a game against them again soon and the last time I brought my buggy list I got destroyed pretty hard. What kind of list usually does well against them that Orks can bring? Not sure if green tide is great against them given their horde clearing abilities and resilience to small arms, I assume if I do bring Green Tide, Skarboyz is mandatory because of their T5.
If you to bring the tide, make sure you have something that can kill a unit of deathshroud (3W/T5/2+/4++/DR) from a distance, as those can blow through mobs of boyz with no trouble. They usually either walk up the board or deep strike as units of 3. Thrakka can kill them, but it's a gamble, if you're unlucky they can kill him after just one round of combat with overwatch and pistol flamers.
Also be aware of the ferryman plague company - their contagion halves movement and there is a stratagem to toss it onto fast vehicles like drones. This can cripple your entire tide if you don't prevent that drone from moving into your ranks.
The other company to look out for is the wretched - they can bring a psyker that can vomit (yes, literally) 10+ mortal wounds onto units too close to him.
For all other plague companies, make sure to ask for their company-specific stratagem, like most DG stratagems they are powerful if you get gotcha'ed by them, but can be played around.
Last, but not least, Mortarion lists might be not be winning tournaments because there are some hard-counters to him (most notably Drukhari), but still are a force to be reckoned with. Thrakka can deal a ton of damage to him, but be aware that Mortarion has a chance to kill Thrakka before he gets a second chance to fight. Also, no re-rolls whatsoever against Mortarion in combat.
cody.d. wrote:Don't DG have pretty meh anti tank? Perhaps a dreadmob list would do okay? Just plough in there and tie them up while a few cheap units try to hug objectives.
Death Guard are absolutely vicious in close combat now, charging them with dreads will most likely cause you to lose them. DR is especially bad for dreads armed with saws and the smash profile of nauts.
That said, their anti-tank is pretty weak so vehicles with powerful shooting like buggies, kannon wagons, morkanauts or planes are rather decent if you prioritize taking out PBCs.
Thanks for the great advice Jidmah! In that case, I'll probably stick to my buggy list core while swapping things around. My last list's workhorses were 3 dragstas, 3 scrapjets, and 6 mek gunz. At the time I was playing WYSIWYG, so I had 3 kustom boosta blastas as well and a burna bomma, which against DG isn't really optimal, so I'll be dropping them. Should I add another 3 scrapjets with the points that I've saved or should I invest in some kannonwagons? I'm also debating against trukk boyz or grots for my mandatory troops given how little damage boyz do right now anyways so I can use some of the shaved off points for something more impactful.
tulun wrote: Does that power feel really meh to anyone else?
Out of context, Ork psykers are know 1, cast 1, and if that's his only power other than smite.. big whiff imo.
Yeah, wouldn't have killed them to throw a single squig with a small base in there just for the fun.
I do think that he will get a full discipline, similar to the phobos librarian and the master of possession. Both those disciplines suck though...
Outside the model is ok-ish. I like the boss pole and those hands pretty much allow you to put anything you want in his hands. Still probably the first thing to get cut when I start exceeding my hobby funds.
i mean i like the model personally but its definitely not an "OMG I MUST HAVE THAT MODEL NOWWWWW" like the special anniversary cryptek model is for necrons (seriously i am getting really mad at my local GW store for not telling me when their anniversary is so they'll have that thing)
Grimskul wrote: Thanks for the great advice Jidmah! In that case, I'll probably stick to my buggy list core while swapping things around. My last list's workhorses were 3 dragstas, 3 scrapjets, and 6 mek gunz. At the time I was playing WYSIWYG, so I had 3 kustom boosta blastas as well and a burna bomma, which against DG isn't really optimal, so I'll be dropping them. Should I add another 3 scrapjets with the points that I've saved or should I invest in some kannonwagons? I'm also debating against trukk boyz or grots for my mandatory troops given how little damage boyz do right now anyways so I can use some of the shaved off points for something more impactful.
Probably kannonwagons if only because of the traffic jam issue. As for troops, it's hard to tell. Personally I would always go for boyz over gretchin as gretchin don't do anything but die. They really don't have any use besides one unit sitting on the home objective.
Grimskul wrote: Thanks for the great advice Jidmah! In that case, I'll probably stick to my buggy list core while swapping things around. My last list's workhorses were 3 dragstas, 3 scrapjets, and 6 mek gunz. At the time I was playing WYSIWYG, so I had 3 kustom boosta blastas as well and a burna bomma, which against DG isn't really optimal, so I'll be dropping them. Should I add another 3 scrapjets with the points that I've saved or should I invest in some kannonwagons? I'm also debating against trukk boyz or grots for my mandatory troops given how little damage boyz do right now anyways so I can use some of the shaved off points for something more impactful.
Probably kannonwagons if only because of the traffic jam issue. As for troops, it's hard to tell. Personally I would always go for boyz over gretchin as gretchin don't do anything but die. They really don't have any use besides one unit sitting on the home objective.
Fair point, with the smaller board size, it really hurts when you're funneled into basically one or two main lanes of reaching the opponent, especially if they screen against deepstrikers. How important would you say kannonwagons being Evil Sunz for gaining/using Visions in the Smoke is? I usually play pure deffskullz so I'm not sure if it's worth having a different detachment just for that is worth it.
I'm also considering not taking troops at all and relying on Deffskull obsec elites for objective holding, though I'm not sure if the deficit in CP would be a game changer.
So regarding the new caster's spell. To my mind the main downside of it is the range. Besides that an average 4 mortals on a marine type unit isn't bad for a spell. Yeah there are better but it's also better than Da Krunch for elite killing. A max 12 mortals if you throw it at single wound models isn't terrible either. I can see use for it. Shame it didn't have a different effect when targeting characters though. That would have made it an ace for me. Like harder to cast but does d6 mortals or something.
Also, anyone else think GW is doing themselves a massive disservice by not giving us a 360 view of models like this? So many first impressions are made or broken by the POV. I'm very curious about his posture, what's going on on his back where that chunky ol' wire is leading to, a better view of the helmet and so much more for every model shown so far. We want to drool over yer models GW! Show us more!
Snaggas are a subclan not clan that can’t be there power unless all the subclans get powers. It’s going to be something silly like an ork astropath usable by all clans. Sounds more like weirdboy gets the choice of lots of powers. Abd this new psyker is powerful but can’t control it so has limited powers. However I agree this power sucks and is a bad remake of old zogwarts power. I rather have had a cheap psychic sniper. Long range ignores look out sir psychic ranged Atk. 2+ bs ignores invuls on a 6 d3 damage. That at least fills the missing sniper role
Oh, actually it seems I misread the spell. You kill models in the target unit and it becomes an AOE doing damage to surrounding units equal to models killed. So if you slap it on a horde unit acting as bubblewrap and roll big you could kill support characters with wounds of 6 or less.
Gonna be honest. I can see some use for this.
Derp, misread it twice. Seems like it's only one mortal not a mortal per killed model. Could be what chips off the final wound but it's not earth shattering.
That Wurrboy was a bland and unnecessary model. I don´t like how Snaggaz are turning into a parallel society, better developed than the Klanz. Better make up some interesting Klan units.
Scactha wrote: That Wurrboy was a bland and unnecessary model. I don´t like how Snaggaz are turning into a parallel society, better developed than the Klanz. Better make up some interesting Klan units.
The white squig guy is a snakebites characters though, who didn't have one for decades.
Scactha wrote: That Wurrboy was a bland and unnecessary model. I don´t like how Snaggaz are turning into a parallel society, better developed than the Klanz. Better make up some interesting Klan units.
Remember that this is all coming together alongside a new book release. We don't know what is being done with the other klans yet, or anything else in the book barring T5 or -1 choppas for that matter.
And Snakebites have been massively underrepresented in dedicated miniatures for as long as I can remember, so it's good to see that side of Orkdom get some love outside of buying squiggoths from FW for silly amounts of money.
I personally like the eclectic Mad Max kind of look that we've been getting with the snagga characters and the buggies. It distances them from the whfb/aos lines whilst still vibing with what we already know about Orks.
Ork Buggy and Battlewagon Buddies 2000 point list:
Total CP: 12 - 5 = 7 CP
Deffskullz Patrol Detachment - 1260
HQ - 115
Warboss on Warbike with Killa Klaw, The Biggest Boss
Warlord Trait: Brutal but Kunnin - 115
Troops - 90
10 Ork Boyz, Nob with Kombi-Rokkit - 90
Fast Attack - 660
3 Megatrakk Scrapjets with Korkscrew - 330
3 Shokkdrump Dragstas with Gyroscopic Whirlygig - 330
Elites - 90
5 Kommandos - 45
5 Kommandos - 45
Heavy Support - 240
6 Mek Gunz, 6 Smasha Gunz - 240
Dedicated Transports - 65
Trukk - 65
Ork Evil Sunz Patrol Detachment - 740
HQ - 135
Big Mek with KFF - 60
Weirdboy, Visions in the Smoke - 75
Troops - 80
10 Ork Boyz, Nob with 2 Choppas
Fast Attack - 120
5 Stormboyz, Boss Nob w/2 Choppas - 60
5 Stormboyz, Boss Nob w/2 Choppas - 60
Heavy Support - 340
Kannonwagon w/3 Big Shootas - 170
Kannonwagon w/3 Big Shootas - 170
Dedicated Transports - 65
Trukk - 65
Here's a rough draft of the list based on the advice given to me so far regarding going against DG, let me know your thoughts.
What secondaries are you gonna play?
That's what I'm currently debating atm. I'm not that familiar with the changes with the new chapter approved secondaries, but I'm guessing that I want to aim for Engage on All Fronts due to my speed, Retrieve Octarius Data because that's the new easy peasy deploy scramblers, and the I think my third secondary will be dependent on what the DG player brings or what the mission secondary is. I've always had issues finding a good third slot, maybe raise the banners?
tulun wrote: Does that power feel really meh to anyone else?
Out of context, Ork psykers are know 1, cast 1, and if that's his only power other than smite.. big whiff imo.
Yeah, wouldn't have killed them to throw a single squig with a small base in there just for the fun.
I do think that he will get a full discipline, similar to the phobos librarian and the master of possession. Both those disciplines suck though...
Outside the model is ok-ish. I like the boss pole and those hands pretty much allow you to put anything you want in his hands. Still probably the first thing to get cut when I start exceeding my hobby funds.
I imagine it's just the "no model, no rule" nonsense. Orks really need a squighound unit.
Meanwhile, look at *this* teased psychic tree:
The Disciples of Be’lakor get their own psyker discipline called the Noctis Discipline.
Voidslivers: Witchfire, Warp charge 5, Draw a line from the psyker to a unit within 12" and visible to the caster. Selected model takes 1 mortal wound (d3 mortal wounds if the unit has 11+ models) and each unit thatthe line passes over also takes 1 mortal wound.
Betraying Shades: Witchfire warp charge 6. Select an enemy unit that is within 18" and visible to the caster. Select up to 6 models in that unit then add their unmodified attack characteristic. Roll a d6 for equal to that number and deal 1 mortal wound for each 6+.
Wreathed in Shades: Blessing warp charge 7. Select one Disciples of Be’lakor unit with in 12" of the caster. Until the start of your next psychic phase enemy units can not target the selected unit with range attacks unless they are within 12" of it.
Ork Buggy and Battlewagon Buddies 2000 point list:
Total CP: 12 - 5 = 7 CP
Deffskullz Patrol Detachment - 1260
HQ - 115
Warboss on Warbike with Killa Klaw, The Biggest Boss
Warlord Trait: Brutal but Kunnin - 115
Troops - 90
10 Ork Boyz, Nob with Kombi-Rokkit - 90
Fast Attack - 660
3 Megatrakk Scrapjets with Korkscrew - 330
3 Shokkdrump Dragstas with Gyroscopic Whirlygig - 330
Elites - 90
5 Kommandos - 45
5 Kommandos - 45
Heavy Support - 240
6 Mek Gunz, 6 Smasha Gunz - 240
Dedicated Transports - 65
Trukk - 65
Ork Evil Sunz Patrol Detachment - 740
HQ - 135
Big Mek with KFF - 60
Weirdboy, Visions in the Smoke - 75
Troops - 80
10 Ork Boyz, Nob with 2 Choppas
Fast Attack - 120
5 Stormboyz, Boss Nob w/2 Choppas - 60
5 Stormboyz, Boss Nob w/2 Choppas - 60
Heavy Support - 340
Kannonwagon w/3 Big Shootas - 170
Kannonwagon w/3 Big Shootas - 170
Dedicated Transports - 65
Trukk - 65
Here's a rough draft of the list based on the advice given to me so far regarding going against DG, let me know your thoughts.
What secondaries are you gonna play?
That's what I'm currently debating atm. I'm not that familiar with the changes with the new chapter approved secondaries, but I'm guessing that I want to aim for Engage on All Fronts due to my speed, Retrieve Octarius Data because that's the new easy peasy deploy scramblers, and the I think my third secondary will be dependent on what the DG player brings or what the mission secondary is. I've always had issues finding a good third slot, maybe raise the banners?
Banners are an option for 6 Objective missions. But let your stormboyz stuck in back T1 raising them.
Engage and Octarius could be an option. They also depend on the mission. 32 Sweap and Clear is pretty hard to do Engage and Octarius in one quater because the whole quater is in fact opponent deploy. 33 Priority target suffer the similar issue.
In two weeks I go for holidays. My plan is to make a “Secondaries selection” based on 2 parametrs. One is the mission and second is the opponent. I want to use some sort of rating based on what Jidmah wrote there few months ago - armies sitting in their deploy, armies pinning you in your deploy and armies ocuppy the center.
Example: 31 Overrun againts home sitting army = Banners and new Domination => makes him to move out of his deploy. Or something like that. To help me decide what to take. Right now it is not so clever to have same secondaries for all missions IMHO
Betraying Shades: Witchfire warp charge 6. Select an enemy unit that is within 18" and visible to the caster. Select up to 6 models in that unit then add their unmodified attack characteristic. Roll a d6 for equal to that number and deal 1 mortal wound for each 6+.
Wreathed in Shades: Blessing warp charge 7. Select one Disciples of Be’lakor unit with in 12" of the caster. Until the start of your next psychic phase enemy units can not target the selected unit with range attacks unless they are within 12" of it.
Wreathed in Shades is a much more reasonable take on invisibility.
Betraying Shades is interesting, against Boyz that'd be 6x2 or 12d6; up to 18d6 if you're running a mob of Killa Kanz, haha the caster could even target a Bonebreaker and roll 6d6. Still it's only fishing for MW on a 6+. Now against Custodes that power will be brutally cost effective.
Some of you already realized but I'm slow. This is Wurrboy is clearly a 2 part model that goes on top of the chariot. I'm taking a little back from what I said from the design now, as less is more if it's a component rather then simply by itself. I also love the idea that it's basically a glorified lightning rod on top of a contraption to help power it (already head canon)
I wonder what rules this thing will have. Looks like a Kannon/lobba and a grot in the back with a bigshoota-ish weapon. Plus the Wurrboy in the top making that 12 inch eye blast a little more viable.
Keramory wrote: Some of you already realized but I'm slow. This is Wurrboy is clearly a 2 part model that goes on top of the chariot. I'm taking a little back from what I said from the design now, as less is more if it's a component rather then simply by itself. I also love the idea that it's basically a glorified lightning rod on top of a contraption to help power it (already head canon)
I wonder what rules this thing will have. Looks like a Kannon/lobba and a grot in the back with a bigshoota-ish weapon. Plus the Wurrboy in the top making that 12 inch eye blast a little more viable.
I think you are correct on the wurrboy being a battery to the chariot… the mechanical tube on the model he has hanging off his back looks like something he plugs into. That might make this psychic mana battery model a bit better looking.
Keramory wrote: Some of you already realized but I'm slow. This is Wurrboy is clearly a 2 part model that goes on top of the chariot. I'm taking a little back from what I said from the design now, as less is more if it's a component rather then simply by itself. I also love the idea that it's basically a glorified lightning rod on top of a contraption to help power it (already head canon)
I wonder what rules this thing will have. Looks like a Kannon/lobba and a grot in the back with a bigshoota-ish weapon. Plus the Wurrboy in the top making that 12 inch eye blast a little more viable.
I think you are correct on the wurrboy being a battery to the chariot… the mechanical tube on the model he has hanging off his back looks like something he plugs into. That might make this psychic mana battery model a bit better looking.
The more I look at it the more I'm convinced this is just a primitive battle wagon. Looking at it's loadout you can see an ork facing the side like a wagon. I can only imagine he has some wrecka ball or claw swinging off some stick and rope lol.
pepi55 wrote: Holy crap betraying shades deletes roughly 1/3 of a full boy squad...
It deletes 3 boyz (4 if they have warpath) unless they roll an 11+, in which case its 6 and 8.
What am I missing? I understood it as: add the attack of each boi together (30x2) and you roll the result x d6 (60xd6)? which after several rolls was roughly 7-14 results of 6+
Automatically Appended Next Post: I completely missed the "up to 6 models".....
theres a cap to Betraying Shades and its unmodified attack characteristic. You select SIX models in that unit, so its actually trash against boyz
So at best a boy squad is doing (5x2)+3 dice assuming theres a nob. Unless you rolled an 11+ for the cast, thats 2-3 mortals on average, and ~5 if you did get 11+ on the cast. Whooptiedoo
Now against Nobz/Meganobz its quite annoying since it caps at 6 and we EASILY hit that cap and they have 3 attacks and its mortals so no armor. It will do more against a 5man MANz squad (15 dice) than it will against a full Boyz squad (13 dice)
You kinda didnt read half of the spell if you didnt notice that since theres an example in the spell description before telling you what the result of the spell is that theres a cap and how to math it out.
edit: actually thinking more about it, Harlies Troupes are really the only ones that truly hate this spell since pretty much everything i can think of that has a high number of attacks with 6-10 models are getting extra attacks somehow. Troupe are 4 base.
yeah plague wind is irriating since it has no cap.
Ive not faced it with orks but i have with necrons. It still likes to swat about a third to half of a necron warrior blob away.
Vineheart01 wrote: theres a cap to Betraying Shades and its unmodified attack characteristic. You select SIX models in that unit, so its actually trash against boyz
So at best a boy squad is doing (5x2)+3 dice assuming theres a nob. Unless you rolled an 11+ for the cast, thats 2-3 mortals on average, and ~5 if you did get 11+ on the cast.
Whooptiedoo
Now against Nobz/Meganobz its quite annoying since it caps at 6 and we EASILY hit that cap and they have 3 attacks and its mortals so no armor. It will do more against a 5man MANz squad (15 dice) than it will against a full Boyz squad (13 dice)
You kinda didnt read half of the spell if you didnt notice that since theres an example in the spell description before telling you what the result of the spell is that theres a cap and how to math it out.
edit: actually thinking more about it, Harlies Troupes are really the only ones that truly hate this spell since pretty much everything i can think of that has a high number of attacks with 6-10 models are getting extra attacks somehow. Troupe are 4 base.
Vineheart01 wrote: theres a cap to Betraying Shades and its unmodified attack characteristic. You select SIX models in that unit, so its actually trash against boyz
So at best a boy squad is doing (5x2)+3 dice assuming theres a nob. Unless you rolled an 11+ for the cast, thats 2-3 mortals on average, and ~5 if you did get 11+ on the cast.
Whooptiedoo
Now against Nobz/Meganobz its quite annoying since it caps at 6 and we EASILY hit that cap and they have 3 attacks and its mortals so no armor. It will do more against a 5man MANz squad (15 dice) than it will against a full Boyz squad (13 dice)
You kinda didnt read half of the spell if you didnt notice that since theres an example in the spell description before telling you what the result of the spell is that theres a cap and how to math it out.
edit: actually thinking more about it, Harlies Troupes are really the only ones that truly hate this spell since pretty much everything i can think of that has a high number of attacks with 6-10 models are getting extra attacks somehow. Troupe are 4 base.
The boyz' "Green Tide' ability adds +1 to the attacks characteristic if the unit is 20+ models.
Warpath adds +1 to attacks characteristic as well.
Other auras/weapon abilities don't add to the attacks characteristic, but those do. Therefore, betraying shades would get 3 dice per boy for a full boyz squad, or 4 dice per boy if they have warpath. 6 models = 18 or 24 total dice, respectively. If he rolls 6-10, that's 3-4 dead boyz. If he rolls 11+, that's 6-8 dead boyz.
The spell does mention unmodified attack stat. So it would be 2 for boyz regardless of armament, 3 for nobz and if you were feeling spicy you could fish for a bunch of 6s against a warboss. Would be funny if he just punches himself to death.
pepi55 wrote: Holy crap betraying shades deletes roughly 1/3 of a full boy squad...
Against most ork units, it's just a worse version of plague wind. It's awesome against elite units though.
It's quite good against melee specialists that have 3 or 4 attacks base per model and high T and save, since it deals MWs. Boyz, even choppa ones, only have 2. Meganobz are definitely a better target for that power, especially when they'll be T5.
pepi55 wrote: Holy crap betraying shades deletes roughly 1/3 of a full boy squad...
Against most ork units, it's just a worse version of plague wind. It's awesome against elite units though.
It's quite good against melee specialists that have 3 or 4 attacks base per model and high T and save, since it deals MWs. Boyz, even choppa ones, only have 2. Meganobz are definitely a better target for that power, especially when they'll be T5.
Well, even for 5 MANz it's 5x3 = 15 dice wo then end up dealing 2.5 MW on average. That's not too far from other smite-like powers.
For example, the new squig power would deal the same amount of MW on average to unit of MANz and possibly some extra wounds to models nearby.
What do you guys prefer, Might is Right or Follow Me, Ladz! as a warboss trait?
Im having trouble choosing between the 2. the extra CP from follow me ladz and the +3" range on his auras is very tempting but im not sure if its better than T7 A6
My go-to warlord trait is Brutal but Kunnin', I really enjoy having additional damage and more reliable hits to make sure I kill ded whatever needs killing ded.
That said, Might is Right increases strength, not toughness. Maybe this already solves your dilemma?
Jidmah wrote: My go-to warlord trait is Brutal but Kunnin', I really enjoy having additional damage and more reliable hits to make sure I kill ded whatever needs killing ded.
That said, Might is Right increases strength, not toughness. Maybe this already solves your dilemma?
Ah, yes that is actually what I meant, the T was a typo. That said, im running the team as evil sunz so maybe brutal but kunnin is indeed better than the stat increase.
This is for an open hostility death or glory (with pts instead of PL) game me and a buddy want to play. He's playing a horde of ad-mech which is quite ironic. a dominus, 3 squads of rangers and a dune rider filled with electro priests.
Since we dont even have a common ground of playing (him having 9th codex and me stuck with 8th) i have given up on winning so im going for a more spicy list:
Spoiler:
+++ 500 - Lets See What We Can Do (Orks) (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [27 PL, 2CP, 497pts] +++ They don't think it be like this, but it do.
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Orks) [27 PL, 2CP, 497pts] ++ Rules:Dis Is Ours! Zog Off!
Clan Kultur / Specialist Mobs: Evil Sunz
. Categories:Configuration . Abilities:Evil Sunz Profiles: . Evil Sunz: Description:Add 1 to the Move characteristic of models with this kultur (adding 2 instead if that model is a SPEED FREEK), and add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for them. In addition, models with this kultur do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.
Warboss [4 PL, 83pts]: Attack Squig, Da Biggest Boss [-1CP], Da Killa Klaw, Follow Me, Ladz! [1CP], Kustom Shoota [3pts], Power Klaw [10pts], 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Warlord
. Categories:Character, Infantry, Warboss, HQ, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Ork, Warlord . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Dakka Dakka Dakka, Mob Rule . Abilities:Breakin' Heads, Da Biggest Boss, Follow me Ladz!, Waaagh!, Unit:Warboss (Da Biggest Boss), Weapon:Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Breakin' Heads: Description:If a <CLAN> unit fails a Morale test within 3" of a friendly <CLAN> WARBOSS, they can restore order with a brutal display of violence. If they do, the unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, but the Morale test is then considered to have been passed.
. Da Biggest Boss: Description:Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one WARBOSS model in your army. Add 1 to that model’s Wounds and Attacks characteristics and it gains a 4+ invulnerable save. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle, and only if your army does not include GHAZGHKULL THRAKA.
. Follow me Ladz!: Description:Your Warlord gains the Waaagh! and Breakin’ Heads abilities (pg 85). If your Warlord already has the Waaagh! and Breakin’ Heads abilities, the range of each ability is increased by 3". In addition, if your army is Battle-forged, you receive an additional +1 Command Point.
. Waaagh!: Description:Friendly <CLAN> Infantry units within 6" of this model at the start of the Charge phase can charge even if they Advanced this turn.
. Warboss (Da Biggest Boss): M:5"|WS:2+|BS:5+|S:6|T:5|W:7|A:5|Ld:8|Save:4+
. Attack Squig: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:4|AP:-1|D:1|Abilities:Each time a model with an attack squig fights, it can make 2 additional attacks with this weapon.
. Da Killa Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D:3|Abilities:Model with Power Klaw only. You can re-roll failed wound rolls for this weapon.
. Kustom Shoota: Range:18"|Type:Assault 4|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D3|Abilities:When attacking with this weapon, you must subtract 1 from the hit roll
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
+ Troops [8 PL, 144pts] +
Boyz [8 PL, 144pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Categories:Boyz, Infantry, Faction: Ork, Faction: <Clan>, Troops . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Dakka Dakka Dakka, Mob Rule . Abilities:Green Tide, Weapon:Tankbusta Bomb . Boss Nob [8pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Boss Nob, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 17x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [136pts]: 17x Choppa, 17x Slugga, 17x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Ork Boy, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Green Tide: Description:If this unit includes 20 or more models, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of each model in the unit.
. Boss Nob: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:4|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Ork Boy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:4|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:user|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Tankbusta Bomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D3|S:8|AP:-2|D6|Abilities:Blast
+ Elites [6 PL, 110pts] +
Kommandos [3 PL, 45pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Categories:Infantry, Faction: Ork, Faction: <Clan>, Elites, Kommando . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Dakka Dakka Dakka, Mob Rule . Abilities:Kunnin' Infiltrators, Sneaky Gits, Throat Slittas, Weapon:Tankbusta Bomb . Boss Nob [9pts]: Big Choppa [Legends], Slugga, Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Kommando Nob, Weapon:Big Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb . 4x Kommando [36pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs
. . Unit:Kommando, Weapon:Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbomb Profiles: . Kunnin' Infiltrators: Descriptionuring Deployment, you may set up a unit of Kommandos in hiding instead of placing them on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases, they can stalk from their hiding place - set them up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.
. Sneaky Gits: Description:Each time a ranged attack is allocated to a model in this unit while it is receiving the benefits of cover, add an additional 1 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.
. Throat Slittas: Description:Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with this unit's melee weapons when targeting enemy units wholly within or on a terrain feature.
. Kommando: M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:4|T:4|W:1|A:2|Ld:6|Save:6+
. Kommando Nob: M:6"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:4|W:2|A:3|Ld:7|Save:6+
. Big Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+2|AP:-1|D:2|Abilities:-
. Choppa: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:user|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.
. Slugga: Range:12"|Typeistol 1|S:4|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:-
. Stikkbomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D6|S:3|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Blast
. Tankbusta Bomb: Range:6"|Type:Grenade D3|S:8|AP:-2|D6|Abilities:Blast
Painboy [3 PL, 65pts]: 'Urty Syringe, Power Klaw
. Categories:Character, Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Ork, Infantry, Elites, Painboy . Rules:'Ere We Go!, Dakka Dakka Dakka, Mob Rule . Abilities:Dok's Tools, Grot Orderly, Sawbonez, Unit:Painboy, Weapon:'Urty Syringe, Power Klaw Profiles: . Dok's Tools: Description:Roll a D6 each time a <CLAN> INFANTRY or <CLAN> BIKER unit loses a wound whilst within 3" of any friendly <CLAN> PAINBOYZ. On a 6, that unit does not lose that wound.
. Grot Orderly: Description:Once per battle, you can re-roll the dice when this model is attempting to heal a model using the Sawbonez ability, either when determining if the surgery is successful or when determining the number of lost wounds regained.
. Sawbonez: Description:At the end of your Movement phase, this model can attempt surgery on a single friendly <CLAN> INFANTRY or BIKER model within 1" of it. If it does so, roll a D6 to determine if the surgery is successful. On a 1 the surgery fails and the model you were attempting to heal loses a wound. On a 2+ the surgery succeeds and that model regains D3 lost wounds. A model can only be the target of a surgery attempt once per turn.
. Painboy: M:5"|WS:3+|BS:5+|S:5|T:4|W:4|A:4|Ld:6|Save:6+
. 'Urty Syringe: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:User|AP:0|D:1|Abilities:Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon. This weapon always wounds on a 4+ unless it is targeting a VEHICLE or TITANIC model, in which case it wounds on a 6+.
. Power Klaw: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:x2|AP:-3|D3|Abilities:When attacking with this weapon, you must subtract 1 from the hit roll
+ Heavy Support [9 PL, -1CP, 160pts] +
Battlewagon [9 PL, -1CP, 160pts]: Deff Rolla [20pts], Grot Rigger [5pts]
. Categories:Faction: <Clan>, Faction: Ork, Transport, Vehicle, Battlewagon, Heavy Support . Rules:Dakka Dakka Dakka . Abilities:Explodes, Grot Riggers, Open-Topped, Transport:Battlewagon, Transport Wound Track:Battlewagon1, Battlewagon2, Battlewagon3, Unit:Battlewagon, Weapon:Deff Rolla . Kustom Job [-1CP]: Forktress
. . Categories:Stratagems . . Abilities:Forktress, Kustom Job Profiles: . Explodes: Description:If this model is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a D6 before removing it from the battlefield and before any embarked models disembark. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D6 mortal wounds.
. Forktress: Description:BATTLEWAGON , BONEBREAKA or GUNWAGON model only. The model has a Save characteristic of 3+ and a 5+ invulnerable save.
. Grot Riggers: Description:If a model has a grot rigger, the grot can attempt repairs at the end of the movement phase. Roll a D6, on a roll of a 2+, this model regains 1 wounds lost earlier in the battle.
. Kustom Job: Description:Use this Stratagem before the battle. Your army can have one additional Kustom Job (pg 76-77). All of the Kustom Jobs that you include must be different and be given to different units.
. Open-Topped: Description:Models embarked on this model can attack in their Shooting phase. Measure the range and draw line of sight from any point on this model. When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers. For example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn.
While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, except with any Pistols they are equipped with.
. Battlewagon: Capacity:This model can transport 20 FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models. Each MEGA ARMOUR or JUMP PACK model takes the space of two other models. If this model is equipped with a killkannon, it can only transport 12 models.
. Battlewagon1: Wounds:8-16+|Move:12"|Strength:8|Attacks:6
. Battlewagon2: Wounds:4-7|Move:9"|Strength:6|Attacks6
. Battlewagon3: Wounds:1-3|Move:6"|Strength:4|Attacks3
. Battlewagon: M:*|WS:5+|BS:5+|S:*|T:7|W:16|A:*|Ld:7|Save:4+
. Deff Rolla: Range:Melee|Type:Melee|S:+1|AP:-2|D:2|Abilities:Each time an attack is made with this weapon, the bearer has a WS characteristic of 2+ for that attack.
++ Roster Rules ++
. Dis Is Ours! Zog Off!: If your army is battle-forged, all Troops units in Ork Detachments gain this ability. Such a unit that is within range of an objective Markers (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of that objective marker. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal.
++ Selection Rules ++
. 'Ere We Go!: You can re-roll charge rolls for this unit. When doing so, you can re-roll all or any of the dice.
. Dakka Dakka Dakka: Each time you roll an unmodified hit roll of 6 for an attack with a ranged weapon by a model in this unit, that hit roll succeeds regardless of modifiers.
In addition, immediately make an additional hit roll against the same target using the same weapon. These additional hit rolls cannot themselves generate extra hit rolls. When firing a weapon with randomly determined characteristics (ie. Bubblechukka), any additional hit rolls use the same characteristics as the hit roll that generated the additional hit roll. This ability does not affect weapons that automatically hit their target.
. Mob Rule: When using the Leadership characteristic of this unit, you can use either its own Leadership characteristic, or you can choose for the characteristic to be equal to either the number of models in the unit, or the number of models in another friendly unit within 6" that has this ability.
Want to make this as optimal as these models can get, what do you guys think? Maybe change the battlewagon for a trukk to make space for more bodies?
How are Gorkanauts and Morkanauts doing these days?
I'm mid building a Morkanaut for the avatar of Mork and converting my forge world Rogue Idol into a Gorkanaut for an avatar of Gork and I have no idea how they even do these days!!
I'm mid building a Morkanaut for the avatar of Mork and converting my forge world Rogue Idol into a Gorkanaut for an avatar of Gork and I have no idea how they even do these days!!
I
Fun but not great. You almost have to pay for their kustom jobs to make them... okay and even then they're expensive. Bringing 2 Gorks and Defftrike and t1 charging is tons of fun though
I'm mid building a Morkanaut for the avatar of Mork and converting my forge world Rogue Idol into a Gorkanaut for an avatar of Gork and I have no idea how they even do these days!!
I
I have lots of success with my Morkanaut upgrade with sparkly bits in my buggy list. Not a top tier choice, but it can pull its weight. The Gorkanaut has to rely on the tellyporta/ramming speed clutch to get things done, so it's not that much fun to play.
When you build the model, make sure to look up how magnetize the main gun - it's the only difference between them besides the KFF and it doesn't require any drilling. You can then decide at the drop of a hat which one you want and aren't screwed over when GW nerfs one of them into the ground.
I have lots of success with my Morkanaut upgrade with sparkly bits in my buggy list. Not a top tier choice, but it can pull its weight. The Gorkanaut has to rely on the tellyporta/ramming speed clutch to get things done, so it's not that much fun to play.
When you build the model, make sure to look up how magnetize the main gun - it's the only difference between them besides the KFF and it doesn't require any drilling. You can then decide at the drop of a hat which one you want and aren't screwed over when GW nerfs one of them into the ground.
I love Mork more personally and have run him more then anyone ever should, but I don't think theres been a single case where he made more then his points back lol.
I will say though, there have been games where the only wounds Morky ever took were from himself. So thats kind of a victory within itself.
I have the feeling the 1 CP super aux thing that is lenient for Orks is a sign that those two may finally join the ranks of Super Heavies and given a bit more love.
Too expensive for how durable they are, and can't hide behind obscuring.
Edit: Honestly, they should feel more like a Kill Tank, and that thing is primo right now. And now you can take 1 for a single CP, it's not too bad a tax.
tulun wrote: I have the feeling the 1 CP super aux thing that is lenient for Orks is a sign that those two may finally join the ranks of Super Heavies and given a bit more love.
Too expensive for how durable they are, and can't hide behind obscuring.
Edit: Honestly, they should feel more like a Kill Tank, and that thing is primo right now. And now you can take 1 for a single CP, it's not too bad a tax.
I've been mucking about with my BW/Kill tank list and it's been a blast. Not the most competitive but I've had a great time with it. Having the extra CP available isn't always critical, but being able to make ballsier decisions because I have enough for an extra strat in my back pocket has been great.
tulun wrote: I have the feeling the 1 CP super aux thing that is lenient for Orks is a sign that those two may finally join the ranks of Super Heavies and given a bit more love.
Too expensive for how durable they are, and can't hide behind obscuring.
Edit: Honestly, they should feel more like a Kill Tank, and that thing is primo right now. And now you can take 1 for a single CP, it's not too bad a tax.
After what happened to Monoliths becoming SHV, I can see that happening, but I'm afraid that in the process they make them more expensive in the process. Either way, good big shoota buffs (and by extension the deffstorm megashoota) in the new codex and some form of improved ramshackle save for the Nauts would be a nice way of upping their survivability and damage output without overly changing their profile.
i really hope they dont do that. But i could see it happening.
Even though we already have a Stompa in that slot and its essentially the same thing, just not priced right at all.
tulun wrote: Does that power feel really meh to anyone else?
Out of context, Ork psykers are know 1, cast 1, and if that's his only power other than smite.. big whiff imo.
Yeah, wouldn't have killed them to throw a single squig with a small base in there just for the fun.
I do think that he will get a full discipline, similar to the phobos librarian and the master of possession. Both those disciplines suck though...
Outside the model is ok-ish. I like the boss pole and those hands pretty much allow you to put anything you want in his hands. Still probably the first thing to get cut when I start exceeding my hobby funds.
Completely in agreement, how the hell do you not put a squig model in that box set and deploy it as a unit? its fluffy, fun and wouldn't be game breaking. Massive opportunity lost.
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