Seems I didn't make this rumour up after all:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1950012a

Death From The Skies

Death from the Skies brings the white-knuckle intensity of aerial combat in the 41st Millennium to your tabletop, featuring selected material from White Dwarf magazine, the Crusade of Fire supplement and exclusive new content. Exclusively available from games-workshop.com, this 72-page, full colour softback compendium book is crammed with background information, gaming ideas and hobby inspiration to help you bring the battle for air superiority to life.

It includes: a detailed account of the Battle for Cardrim, featuring White Scars Space Marines, Necrons and Orks locked in a deadly battle for control of a vital airfield; four new Air War missions that showcase the lightning-fast nature of aerial warfare; optional rules for dogfighting and veteran fighter aces for your Warhammer 40,000 games; and a showcase of beautifully painted Flyers from the 'Eavy Metal collection.

There are rules for using the Stormraven Gunship with a Codex: Space Marines and Black Templars army; updated rules for the range of Warhammer 40,000 Flyer models, including new bestiary and army list entries for the following codexes: Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks and Space Marines.

Please note: Death from the Skies is available in English language only.

Death From The Skies £ 20.00

Also released so-called one click bundles:

Flight of the Valkyries ( two Imperial Guard Valkyries and two metal Imperial Guard Cadian Kasrkin Squads) £ 133.00
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960015a

Stormraven Domination Force (a Stormraven Gunship, a Dreadnought and a Tactical Squad) £ 101.00
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960005a

Burning Skies (two Chaos Heldrakes) £ 90.00
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960009a

Caliban's Wrath (two Ravenwing Dark Talon kits) £ 90.00
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960011a

Skyhammer Squadron (three Stormtalon Gunships) £ 82.50
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960007a

Razorwing Murder Squadron (three Razorwing Jetfighters) £ 82.50
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960013a

Da Fly Boyz (three Ork Bommers) £ 82.50
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960019a

Necron Annihilation Wing (two boxes of Necron Night Scythes) £ 55.00
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1960017a




Old post before official confirmation

A new 40k supplement book will be released on 16th February:
"Death from the Skies" (26€, mail order only, chance of being in English only).
More when I know more. But it certainly sounds like a flyer supplement.

Here the cover thanks to Lorizael:


Edit (copied from this thread):

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

 Lorizael wrote:
My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon
Ork Bomba / dakka jet / burna bomba
Valkyrie / vendetta
Razorwing & Voide Raven
Night Scythe / doom scythe

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.
(...)
I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

faeit212 wrote:OK readers, its now official. I have the information for what will be in Death from the Skies and of course I am sharing all of it that I am allowed to. Here are the details.

No longer a rumor. Even I had concerns the image above was photoshop'd, but it is the real cover. There are no flyer releases listed out from what I have seen. Hopefully next month?

I also wonder which version of the Stormraven codex Space Marines and Black Templar will be able to use.

Death From the Skies (Direct only – Range item) 60040199031
sale through Direct on Saturday 16th February (no advanced order)
•A 72p full colour, softback, Warhammer 40,000 Compendium
•Contains a fantastic showcase of flyers available to collectors, beautifully painted by the ‘Eavy Metal team
•Contains all the updated 6th Edition rules for the following Flyers:
- Stormraven (that can now be used in Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars) and Stormtalon Gunship
- Valkyrie and Vendetta
- Ork Dakka Jet, Burna Bommer and Blitza Bommer
- Necron Night Scythe and Doom Scythe
- Dark Eldar Razorwing and Void Raven

•Includes the rules for the Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship and Ork Bommer previously available in WD
•Contains cool new content – new scenarios as well as the Dog-fighting rules from Crusade of Fire
•This compendium will be promoted on the web and by the blog
•English language only
•Please note: This product will go out of stock for short periods if demand is high

Wow, that's a surprise - a new supplement book with rules so that people can field more and more flyers. They really are pushing flyers this ed, aren't they?

Maybe they'll introduce a proper Space Marine jetpack for flyin'.

Maybe they could release flyers for those races lacking in that department.

So January/Mid February of Fliers?

Guess no Daemons...

And a book with the rules for some flyers already released that arent available in print (looking at you stormtalon and ork flyer)

 Melcavuk wrote:
And a book with the rules for some flyers already released that arent available in print (looking at you stormtalon and ork flyer)

That was my first thought. About effing time..!

Would be more interested if it included new flyers. Tau and Eldar are still waiting. Saying SoB should get also one is a long lost cause that is not even a realistic option.

 Melcavuk wrote:
And a book with the rules for some flyers already released that arent available in print (looking at you stormtalon and ork flyer)

Not that this will help, since it will probably be another limited release and sell out within a day, at which point you can either buy an ipad and the digital copy or pirate it just like you have to pirate the existing flyer rules if you don't own an ipad.

As a man who probably owns more flyers than most, including superheavy ones, across three different factions, as well as someone who shelled out for an Aegis line and three Forgeworld Hydra kits, I can honestly say I have no desire to play this after 6 months of 6E and it's poorly implemented Flyer rules.


Being horrifically letdown with Battle Missions, Crusade of Fire, and Planetstrike also doesn't help.

I only hope it helps address some of the imbalance in normal games.

 Vaktathi wrote:
As a man who probably owns more flyers than most, including superheavy ones, across three different factions, as well as someone who shelled out for an Aegis line and three Forgeworld Hydra kits, I can honestly say I have no desire to play this after 6 months of 6E and it's poorly implemented Flyer rules.


Being horrifically letdown with Battle Missions, Crusade of Fire, and Planetstrike also doesn't help.

I only hope it helps address some of the imbalance in normal games.

You have no desire to play something you know little to nothing about? How open-minded of you.

I sure hope they printed the rules for Stormtalons and Ork fliers. I shudder at all the gamers who got one of those model kits home and found out that they can;t access any of the rules required to field them.

I have no desire for a flyer oriented expansion based on the quality of previous expansions and the way they function under the current core ruleset.

Unless the way this works is radically different both in a rules sense and in terms of GW's operating methodology, I don't see why I'd be interested.

The evidence I have to go on, as a consumer, based on current rules and past releases, means this product does nothing to pique my interest.


And, as the 40k universe will tell you, an open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded

English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

whoadirty wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As a man who probably owns more flyers than most, including superheavy ones, across three different factions, as well as someone who shelled out for an Aegis line and three Forgeworld Hydra kits, I can honestly say I have no desire to play this after 6 months of 6E and it's poorly implemented Flyer rules.


Being horrifically letdown with Battle Missions, Crusade of Fire, and Planetstrike also doesn't help.

I only hope it helps address some of the imbalance in normal games.

You have no desire to play something you know little to nothing about? How open-minded of you.

Unless there some hugh changes to the flyer rules, we know a lot about what the product will bring.

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

Not holding my breath. But GW will be making 80 something bucks from me if BT gets a Stormraven. (and Chapterhouse gets a few for the conversion)

I'm happy. I want more and better Flyers for my Tyranids. I just hope this is characterized as a "patch" for the game rather than an "optional expansion".

It would be sweet if this book also included new AA fortifications (even if they're not released at the time of printing).

Any chance this book recalibrates some extant offenders, like the Vendetta?

Altruizine wrote:
I'm happy. I want more and better Flyers for my Tyranids. I just hope this is characterized as a "patch" for the game rather than an "optional expansion".

It would be sweet if this book also included new AA fortifications (even if they're not released at the time of printing).

Any chance this book recalibrates some extant offenders, like the Vendetta?

Likely zero as GW has a longstanding policy of not changing rules until the next codex update. It took them almost three years to unify SM equipment so that we didn't have three different versions of stormshields and PotMS floating around.

A patch would be good. Something so that we can at least avoid some kind of ridiculous nonsense like, I dunno....

The most highly trained super-soldier, a specialist in heavy weapons, genetically engineered to be better than the best, in the most high-tech imaginable armour, wielding a heavy laser cannon, braced in a good firing position...

being no more likely to hit a low-flying aircraft than a running ork is.

Any game that pulled that kind of a stunt wouldn't even be taken seriously.

The other SM chapters could have talked the DA in sharing their fancy AA-rocket launchers I guess

 Vaktathi wrote:

Altruizine wrote:
I'm happy. I want more and better Flyers for my Tyranids. I just hope this is characterized as a "patch" for the game rather than an "optional expansion".

It would be sweet if this book also included new AA fortifications (even if they're not released at the time of printing).

Any chance this book recalibrates some extant offenders, like the Vendetta?

Likely zero as GW has a longstanding policy of not changing rules until the next codex update. It took them almost three years to unify SM equipment so that we didn't have three different versions of stormshields and PotMS floating around.

It does seem rather unlikely. But, then again, the latest rumour before today maintained that the flyer wave would only consist of four new units. They're going to have to devise a hell of a lot of scenarios and special rules to fill up that 26€ book if the bestiary (or, rather, the hangar) only consists of four units. Although I suppose they might just reprint the existent flyer rules without any addenda.

Who is familiar with Storm of Magic? I know there were some units included in there that overlapped with preexisting ones from specific armies (Hydra, Trolls, Giants, etc. come to mind). Were any of those units modified, or were they all exactly the same as their armybook counterparts?

We are talking about a book a bit cheaper than Planetstrike (maybe £20.00 or so), so the book is thin and not hardcover like SOM.

BTW not the first time, that model releases from second half of the month were kept secret from WD and traders, so I wouldn't completely rule out some flyers (e.g. the 4 rumoured ones) being released, say, 23rd February, although I am just guessing. Remember the trench box?

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............



So is this going to be another mail-only fiasco like Crusade of Fire? Because as usual, GW doesnt say a word about their upcoming releases, and Im not buying the damn thing if it doesnt benefit me. Im not paying $160 whatever it is for a paperweight if I still dont get flyers. Going to stay glued to this thread for leaks and I will absolutely preorder it when I get confirmation of BT flyers.

I think I'm in the same boat as d3m01iti0n here, if it doesn't benefit me, as in no Eldar or BT, I won't be getting it.

EDIT: Ministry, Jeez guy! You got a brand new codex, be bloody happy because there was a whole load more codices that needed it more.

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Who knows, but I don't think so,if they wanted the DA to have them they would've been in the codex. I'll try to find out a bit more about the flyer availability tomorrow, maybe there's hope my Wolves maybe also get access to the fliers, I'd really ike a SR with Wolfstrike missiles

A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore. I would much rather see a free pdf download of the rules and refocus on balancing/playtesting rules and updating models.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

The Dark Angels Flyers aren't rubbish. They're not stupendously amazing, but they're entirely useable.

The problem is that the Vendetta and Stormraven/Stormtalon were initially designed and costed as Skimmers, not flyers. Thus, they're overarmored and undercosted as a result of being hamfisted into a new edition.

Hell, they even have fluff on why the Valkyrie/Vendetta was AV12 and a skimmer instead of a flyer, it was explained that when operating in close support it was up-armored and overburdened. Then it all went out the window.

The Heldrake is the only exception, and as a Chaos player, I'll be the first to admit it can use some toning down, but may also have been designed initially under the previous paradigm and not properly adjusted for 6E either.

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore.

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

Knowing GW, it will include
- rules for new variants of existing flyers (cue Forgeworld expansion sets)
- a couple of flyer rule 'fixes' (i.e. replacing codex entries) which will be bitterly argued over on the forums
- special rules for new units of existing flyers (e.g. squadrons for models which can't normally have squadrons) for Apocalypse only
- rules for a couple of brand new flyers (which by an amazing coincidence have new plastic kits about to be released) with new rules
- a couple of new kits (as previously rumoured) for existing flyer codex entries

Hmm, there'll probably be a few bits of new anti-flyer rules/models too.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Likely zero as GW has a longstanding policy of not changing rules until the next codex update. It took them almost three years to unify SM equipment so that we didn't have three different versions of stormshields and PotMS floating around.

On the other hand, given how many core rules they have changed so far in the rulebook FAQ, maybe that is changing...

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

Eeexxactly.

Altruizine wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Altruizine wrote:
I'm happy. I want more and better Flyers for my Tyranids. I just hope this is characterized as a "patch" for the game rather than an "optional expansion".

It would be sweet if this book also included new AA fortifications (even if they're not released at the time of printing).

Any chance this book recalibrates some extant offenders, like the Vendetta?

Likely zero as GW has a longstanding policy of not changing rules until the next codex update. It took them almost three years to unify SM equipment so that we didn't have three different versions of stormshields and PotMS floating around.

It does seem rather unlikely. But, then again, the latest rumour before today maintained that the flyer wave would only consist of four new units. They're going to have to devise a hell of a lot of scenarios and special rules to fill up that 26€ book if the bestiary (or, rather, the hangar) only consists of four units. Although I suppose they might just reprint the existent flyer rules without any addenda...

... and ts of storys about how the staff played the game.

I'm not expecting too much. Some sort of Spearhead for fliers with a 26€ price tag.

I'll surely get the book if I'm proven wrong and it actually introduces new models/rules for the main game. Otherwise, I think I'll pass.

I only hope it isn't limited edition. PLEASE NOT LIMITED EDITION!

The Dark Eldar pic of the bomber, Murderous Skies, isn't that like a year or two old?

Then again, GW loves to regurgitate it's pictures, so I guess it could be legit then.

I bet it will codify Sabre defense platforms as a final 'FU buy a guard army!' to every non imperial player out there.


Everyone has flyer on the brain, but I find it weird that flyer on flyer action is so incredibly boring. The only real tactic is 'make sure you go second.' If they want to introduce some new rules, that'd be the best area to improve.

Goresaw wrote:
Everyone has flyer on the brain, but I find it weird that flyer on flyer action is so incredibly boring. The only real tactic is 'make sure you go second.' If they want to introduce some new rules, that'd be the best area to improve.

Don't give them ideas. The Crusade of Fire dogfight rules just said "play three games of 'rock, paper,scissors', and the winner keeps their flyer", which somehow managed to be even worse than just shooting normally (both in terms of chances of killing the target and how much fun you have). The best-case scenario is a book that just adds some new flyers and some battle reports that everyone ignores, I have no faith at all in GW's ability to add new rules that actually improve the game.

As weak as the new DA flyers are and the new Eldar and Tau flyes are rumored to be, I'm hoping that these new rules will somehow make S6 more useful against other flyers (esp. AV 12 flyers like Valk/Vendettas and Storm Ravens).

Davor wrote:
The Dark Eldar pic of the bomber, Murderous Skies, isn't that like a year or two old?

Then again, GW loves to regurgitate it's pictures, so I guess it could be legit then.

The pic that appears to be from murderous skies is showing murderous skies...

Just an errata dropping the Stormraven/Vendetta/Heldrake front and side armour to 11 would go a long way to making them more reasonably priced (although even then the Vendetta is still miles better than the Stormtalon or Darktalon for the price).

Stormtalon and Stormraven for BT would be very nice. Though if we do get both, I'm not sure if I'll pony up for a Raven, at least any time soon. I already have two Talons, and Ravens are slightly problematic in that just about the only things that are safe to transport in it are TH+SS terminators and dreads, because anything without an invulnerability save just dies if the thing gets shot down!

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
A patch would be good. Something so that we can at least avoid some kind of ridiculous nonsense like, I dunno....
The most highly trained super-soldier, a specialist in heavy weapons, genetically engineered to be better than the best, in the most high-tech imaginable armour, wielding a heavy laser cannon, braced in a good firing position...
being no more likely to hit a low-flying aircraft than a running ork is.
Any game that pulled that kind of a stunt wouldn't even be taken seriously.

Well, neither does it make sense it being equally easy/hard to hit a running grot 48" away than a Land Raider sitting still 1" away

 Vaktathi wrote:
The problem is that the Vendetta and Stormraven/Stormtalon were initially designed and costed as Skimmers, not flyers. Thus, they're overarmored and undercosted as a result of being hamfisted into a new edition.

Don't even kid about raising the cost of the Stormtalon. That thing is NOT overpriced, it's 150-155 points with any of the options other than Heavy Bolter, and the only 2 HP flyer in the game!

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore. I would much rather see a free pdf download of the rules and refocus on balancing/playtesting rules and updating models.

I'm now worried that instead of making the rules WD updates, they are just going to launch limited run expansions, meaning we need to pay even more for them if we can get hold of them at all :(

Kroothawk wrote:Here previous titles on 40k flyers:

Davor wrote:The Dark Eldar pic of the bomber, Murderous Skies, isn't that like a year or two old?

Previous titles are previous

On topic:

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

Getting very excited now. Oh GW, youre an emotional rollercoaster.

Harriticus wrote:Would be more interested if it included new flyers. Tau and Eldar are still waiting. Saying SoB should get also one is a long lost cause that is not even a realistic option.

Easy enough just to give SoB the Valkyrie, IMO. God knows why they didn't do it in the WD. Everyone wins. SoB get to have a really cool model added to the range, the idea of that many Multi Meltas and Heavy Flamers jumping out of Valks is sure to make people excited AND increase the viability of the list, and GW sells more models due to a crossover kit and people willing to pay Metal prices for a unique, cool looking, and competitive army. Hell, if SoB weren't so expensive people would do that anyway, just to have Sisters Count As Vets.

Cross your fingers for Sister Valkyries.

Kroothawk wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore.

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

This plus one.

 Peregrine wrote:

Don't give them ideas. The Crusade of Fire dogfight rules just said "play three games of 'rock, paper,scissors', and the winner keeps their flyer", which somehow managed to be even worse than just shooting normally (both in terms of chances of killing the target and how much fun you have).

I did not get Crusade of Fire, so am curious: is this serious? (Or is it some similarly, um, interesting set of mechanics?)

The argument for the dominance of the Stormraven and the Valkyrie is that they were designed as skimmers for 5th, and thus were undercosted/overarmored in 6th.

This is no doubt true, but it's not like GW didn't have options. First, they made both 3HP. While fliers of that bulk should, IMO, be 3HP, they shouldn't be AV12. So why not keep the price point and the armor, but make them HP2? They also gave the Vendetta hover, which while that makes sense, just makes a strong unit even stronger.

The second baffling aspect to this is the refusal to release high strength, low AP, anti-flier weapons in the new codices. Or, really, any anti-flier weapons at all. Chaos and DA can take flakk missiles, which have the distincition of being both expensive and fairly poor at their job. Aside from, IIRC, the icarus lascannon, the only weapons that can reliably take out the Vendetta or Stormraven are each other. Which, as noted above, reduces dogfighting tactics to "go second."

Curious how bad Flakk missiles are? Combining pens and glances, they only do twice as many hullpoints of damage on AV12 as lascannons, for a five point premium. Lascannons do 3/4 of the pens that a flakk missle gets, though, and gets the all important +1 to its damage roll.

 Magos Explorator wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Don't give them ideas. The Crusade of Fire dogfight rules just said "play three games of 'rock, paper,scissors', and the winner keeps their flyer", which somehow managed to be even worse than just shooting normally (both in terms of chances of killing the target and how much fun you have).

I did not get Crusade of Fire, so am curious: is this serious? (Or is it some similarly, um, interesting set of mechanics?)

I was going to ask exactly the same question. If so that's pretty bad, you pay £25 for a book (that for some mystifying reason is super special limited edition only) and you'd at least hope there would be a comprehensive set of rules for dealing with combat involving this edition's most trumpeted new unit type...

I was a at GW today, the manager there showed me a mail he got about this, appears Black templars are going to be avaible to use the stormtalon legal now!

 Kroothawk wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
A supplement that brings flier models/rules to armies that don't have them would be nice, especially since they aren't doing WD rules updates anymore.

GW: "We heard a lot of criticism that essential flyer rules were in WDs that immediately sold out. We took your criticism to heart and rerelease them in a limited edition supplement immediately selling out."

But do not worry. They'll send at least two copies to each one-man GW store for the masses to fight over.

I still can't believe that people pre-order models, that won't go out of stock for a while, are easily available online, and don't have the basic rules for them. If they came out with a Tau flyer I wouldn't be so impulsive as to order even one until I knew what the actual model did.

The LGS still has a stack of the Crusade of Fire books because they offered nothing worth their price. I seriously hope this supplement either gives options for flyers for all the armies without or atleast a lot of AA fortification options. As someone already mentioned, a single lascannon is complete garbage when you have 3 A12 flyers coming in with more than enough firepower to waste a single gun emplacement.

Like Crusade of Fire, White Dwarf and the Hobbit, I have no interest in this book.

I may just break out my BT army if this is the case.

 Kroothawk wrote:
A new 40k supplement book will be released on 16th February:
"Death from the Skies" (26€, mail order only, chance of being in English only).
More when I know more. But it certainly sounds like a flyer supplement.

Here previous titles on 40k flyers:




Edit (copied from this thread):

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

All I have to say is: Phil Plaitt called, he wants his book title back.

phatonic wrote:
I was a at GW today, the manager there showed me a mail he got about this, appears Black templars are going to be avaible to use the stormtalon legal now!

StormRAVEN or StormTALON? All the rumors Ive seen are pointing towards the Stormraven, but the original said me might get both. I only care about the Raven really.

Yeah, I'm in the "pass on this camp" I play Tau and am not going to drop FW money for a flier that needs to soak in hot water to put together, I don't have time to fix something I buy.

 agnosto wrote:
Yeah, I'm in the "pass on this camp" I play Tau and am not going to drop FW money for a flier that needs to soak in hot water to put together, I don't have time to fix something I buy.

I was under the impression youre getting a GW flyer, not FW.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Yeah, I'm in the "pass on this camp" I play Tau and am not going to drop FW money for a flier that needs to soak in hot water to put together, I don't have time to fix something I buy.

I was under the impression youre getting a GW flyer, not FW.

Tau are getting a regular flier?!?!? What'd I miss? I swear I take off for a week to go to a conference and the world changes...

GW: We don't want to homogenise the Marines, and that's why the Stormraven is Blood Angels/Grey Knights only.

*flash forward*

GW: Here you are non-BA/GK players, totally legal rules to use the Stormraven in your armies!

The more interesting element of this book for me is updates to preexisting flyers. Hopefully this means changes (read: nerfs) to the Valkyrie and Vendetta, who were clearly not designed for 6th edition. The BA Stormraven might perhaps need a bit of a change as well, though honestly this one seems less egregious. The GK Stormraven and all other flyers seem totally fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW: We don't want to homogenise the Marines, and that's why the Stormraven is Blood Angels/Grey Knights only.

*flash forward*

GW: Here you are non-BA/GK players, totally legal rules to use the Stormraven in your armies!

I agree that this is a problematic choice. Will BA/SW/BT players get the Stormtalon as well to compensate? Let's hope so...

Give it a year or two, and regular marines will have access to all the new DA Landspeeders as well.

Just like they did the first time.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

phatonic wrote:
I was a at GW today, the manager there showed me a mail he got about this, appears Black templars are going to be avaible to use the stormtalon legal now!

StormRAVEN or StormTALON? All the rumors Ive seen are pointing towards the Stormraven, but the original said me might get both. I only care about the Raven really.

on the little spoiler i got to see its going to be a revamp of the flyers included statchanges as goes for the ork bommer, but one of thepics i saw and the text included "black templar stormTalon"

GW: We don't want to homogenise the Marines, and that's why the Stormraven is Blood Angels/Grey Knights only.

*flash forward*

GW: Here you are non-BA/GK players, totally legal rules to use the Stormraven in your armies!

I know it's not the way you meant what you said, but don't know what the worry about homogenizing Marines' vehicles would be. Before about the time the Baal came out for the Blood Angels, every Chapter had access to the same vehicles. Only the troops made the Chapter unique.

I say keep the vehicles "unique in unlimited numbers" to specific Chapters, and then do like the first version of the Land Raider Crusader was for non-BT chapters, being limited in number.

On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

I will be happy with any flyer for my BT. At least then I wont have to take guard for a vendetta just to have a flyer.

So are these rules and new state lines going to replace the current ones?

I play orks for example. Will these rules replace the current ork flyer rules all together?

Presumably, though I'm doubting that the rules will see much change. It'll just be a reprint of the existing ones for those who don't have them. Ie either fork out £4 during the limited run for your rules or the £20 or whatever for the pdf. Of course seeing as its a digital copy I'm questioning who will actually buy it other than the customer base that blindly forks out money with every fad release. I'd imagine that most people who would want the rules and have access to a computer would have just downloaded an illegal copy of them by now.

But seeing as it going to be costing something silly considering that it isn't even a physical copy and the content isn't even knew GW's going to make a decent profit. Hey it'll be a required purchase for x amount of years until GW release another flyers supplement. =P

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I know it's not the way you meant what you said, but don't know what the worry about homogenizing Marines' vehicles would be. Before about the time the Baal came out for the Blood Angels, every Chapter had access to the same vehicles. Only the troops made the Chapter unique.

I don't see what the worry is either. I think it works from a fluff perspective (why would the GKs and BA's, of all people, be the only ones to have those transports - just 'cause they were the two Marine Codices that came out in a row, it seems) and from a sales perspective (why intentionally cut other Marine players, the majority of which don't play BAs/GKs, from such a vehicle). I mean, I don't play BAs/GKs and I bought two of the things. I imagine many more players would as well if they could legally field them.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

GW is often-times petrified of making money, and make really odd decisions that run counter to really obvious ways to increase sales. And then at the same time they go and remove limits on units that used to have limits. It doesn't really make much sense, and I think it's a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand exists.

My predicition is huge rule changes for current problem child flyers.

- Vendetta/valk 12/10/10 with all current rules staying the same. Possibly available for SoB.
-Stormravens 12/11/11 and a slight price decrease, also available to BT, SW and C:SM.
-Nightscythe slight point increase.
-Relase of rules for Tau/Eldar/Tyranid flyers.

With this release, all armies except Daemons have flyers. Enjoy your newly awesome flakk missiles that can pen anything 1/3rd of the time.

Vendy for the SoBs? Nah. They'll get their own garish flying cathedral pipe organ nightmare when the time comes, no doubt armed with a Holy Cannon and Faithstrike Missiles.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

GW is often-times petrified of making money, and make really odd decisions that run counter to really obvious ways to increase sales. And then at the same time they go and remove limits on units that used to have limits. It doesn't really make much sense, and I think it's a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand exists.

Or to be really cynical, GW release a chapter-specific model in the hope that customers will buy a whole new army just to field that chapter-specific model, GW then deliberately wait a year and announce that all chapters can now field that same model, in the hope of another sales spike. That's how cold-hearted accountants think, alas :(

Engage New Hat for Malibu Stacy Protocol, Chapter Master!

 Clang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
On the other hand I can completely see it as a way to hugely strengthen sales of Storm Talons/Ravens. Especially Storm rRavens- I'm sure GW wants every increased opportunity to sell an $80 model.

GW is often-times petrified of making money, and make really odd decisions that run counter to really obvious ways to increase sales. And then at the same time they go and remove limits on units that used to have limits. It doesn't really make much sense, and I think it's a case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand exists.

Or to be really cynical, GW release a chapter-specific model in the hope that customers will buy a whole new army just to field that chapter-specific model, GW then deliberately wait a year and announce that all chapters can now field that same model, in the hope of another sales spike. That's how cold-hearted accountants think, alas :(

I think Clang is exactly right.

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

Coyote81 wrote:
My predicition is huge rule changes for current problem child flyers.

- Vendetta/valk 12/10/10 with all current rules staying the same. Possibly available for SoB.
-Stormravens 12/11/11 and a slight price decrease, also available to BT, SW and C:SM.
-Nightscythe slight point increase.
-Relase of rules for Tau/Eldar/Tyranid flyers.

With this release, all armies except Daemons have flyers. Enjoy your newly awesome flakk missiles that can pen anything 1/3rd of the time.

Daemons have fliers. Lots of them. 2 of the greater deamons are FMC, as are Daemon Princes. They can field more fliers per FOC than any army other than Necrons and Guard.

I think it very unlikely that GW would change points costs and rules in a supplement.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

Or never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to a business decision.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think it very unlikely that GW would change points costs and rules in a supplement.

I would say so too. especially as it is only available in english and direct order only,

Unless of course they decided to cut costs for translations and publish the new Citadel-Dictionary alongside instead

Ever heard of Ravening Hordes? I played warhammer fantasy with an army that was changed to fit in a 5 page paper supplement for roughly 5 years. I'll never put it past GW to changes rules in even the most cheaply made supplement.

 Ministry wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

Sooo....the Vendetta. Aka the most undercosted thing in any codex evar?

AV 12 all around, BS 4, 3 Twinlinked lascannons, ignores crew shaken and stunned results, and has skyfire while in hover mode. All of that is base at 130pnts. It's op as hell. Not because of it's special rules or weapons or anything, but because it's stupidly undercosted and does both anti-tank and anti-flyer more efficiently then anything in any other codex forever.

 TheMind wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

Sooo....the Vendetta. Aka the most undercosted thing in any codex evar?

AV 12 all around, BS 4, 3 Twinlinked lascannons, ignores crew shaken and stunned results, and has skyfire while in hover mode. All of that is base at 130pnts. It's op as hell. Not because of it's special rules or weapons or anything, but because it's stupidly undercosted and does both anti-tank and anti-flyer more efficiently then anything in any other codex forever.

Wait what?

It is AV10 on the back, BS3, doesnt ignore crew shaken, reduces stuns to shakens and doesn't have skyfire when in hover. You're mistaken as hell.

Please check your facts before posting.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think it very unlikely that GW would change points costs and rules in a supplement.

Yeah, this sounds to me more like another one of those pointless expansions that no one will play. Unless GW uses language like "official codex update for ____" or whatever in the book then no one's really going to take it seriously.

And they're definitely not going to make the Storm Raven available as a normal unit for marine armies.

What they might do, is encourage people to buy it for them in the scenario games though.

Right now, the Storm Raven is in a pretty good money making position for GW.

"I have ultramarines but I really want to use a storm raven. Oh hey look, ALLIES rules, I can ally in a Grey Knights Storm Raven with an HQ and a unit of Grey Knight Terminators to go in it..... "

"Hey.... I've got a Storm Raven, an HQ and a Grey Knight Terminator unit, all I need is another grey knight squad and the codex and I've got a small version of another army......"


"Hey, I've got a small Grey Knight army, I might as well make it bigger so I can play some games with that!"

"Hey, my Grey Knights army can use some extra bodies on the field, I could ally in some Guardsmen...."

Repeat ad infinitum. All thanks to having a Storm Raven not in Codex Space Marines.

Vanilla Stormravens? Oh god, now I have to get one!

I wonder if other chapters' Strormravens will have same weapon loadouts as BA ones.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 TheMind wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Ministry wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
English only is correct, also if I recall correctly it will at least introduce the Storm Raven to Black Templars and Vanilla SM, maybe also the Storm Talon to the Templars.

DA could really use a better flyer so I hope they make the ST accessible to them.

Jesus Christ........gets a brand new codex and a ton of models and still isnt happy............

The new DA flyers are great looking models but statistically they are absolute rubbish for their points cost. We need a competitive flyer like the Helldrake or Vendetta, or the Stormtalon....

Sooo....the Vendetta. Aka the most undercosted thing in any codex evar?

AV 12 all around, BS 4, 3 Twinlinked lascannons, ignores crew shaken and stunned results, and has skyfire while in hover mode. All of that is base at 130pnts. It's op as hell. Not because of it's special rules or weapons or anything, but because it's stupidly undercosted and does both anti-tank and anti-flyer more efficiently then anything in any other codex forever.

Wait what?

It is AV10 on the back, BS3, doesnt ignore crew shaken, reduces stuns to shakens and doesn't have skyfire when in hover. You're mistaken as hell.

Please check your facts before posting.

OK well, I've apparently been cheated on the Skyfire in hover mode thing. My point still stands. Also I saw that edit. Pot, kettle, black?

Right now, the Storm Raven is in a pretty good money making position for GW.

"I have ultramarines but I really want to use a storm raven. Oh hey look, ALLIES rules, I can ally in a Grey Knights Storm Raven with an HQ and a unit of Grey Knight Terminators to go in it..... "

"Hey.... I've got a Storm Raven, an HQ and a Grey Knight Terminator unit, all I need is another grey knight squad and the codex and I've got a small version of another army......"


"Hey, I've got a small Grey Knight army, I might as well make it bigger so I can play some games with that!"

I didn't really think of that, but it's true.

I can see the 'Talon being opened up to other Chapters, though I hate the very idea of the model. It completely outmoded land speeders in their own job, when the model they should have released was the FW land Speeder Tempest in plastic to fulfill the same "SM flyer" role.

My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon
Ork Bomba / dakka jet / burna bomba
Valkyrie / vendetta
Razorwing & Voide Raven
Night Scythe / doom scythe

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.

Here's hoping for a massive nerf to Vendettas.

All thumbs pressed!

 Sigvatr wrote:
Here's hoping for a massive nerf to Vendettas.

All thumbs pressed!

Not a nerf, just a points increase. Maybe 180?

Well, a points increase is a nerf

And: the more, the better. Huarhuar.

So it's a copy and paste of the flier bits of crusade of fire and the iBook flyer data sheets?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Vendy for the SoBs? Nah. They'll get their own garish flying cathedral pipe organ nightmare when the time comes, no doubt armed with a Holy Cannon and Faithstrike Missiles.

The plan is to sell vendettas to SoB players, and when the new codex comes around, invalidate vendettas as a legal choice, replacing it with the garish flying cathedral pipe organ nightmare with holy cannon and faithstrike missiles.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Well, a points increase is a nerf

And: the more, the better. Huarhuar.

Just semantics I guess, but when I think of nerf, I think of changing their rules/options so that they can no longer fulfill the same role they once did and/or affect their survivability.

Though now that I think about it, the MASSIVE pts increase to the carnifex was a nerf, so nevermind!

Maybe it will finally give my Space Marines some damn Flakk missiles to shoot down those flyers.

I am sure the IG flyers will get a point increase and then tac it on to their FAQ. At least that's how I imagine it could go.

I would like to see them to open up more weapon combos for the Valkyrie, the Vendetta weapon load out was just over the top. I would be surprised if they didn't add the flak missiles.

I would be surprised if they add ANYTHING that contradicts a codex entry, but I'm afraid anyone hoping for a stat change or points change is going to be sadly disappointed.

I mean, can you imagine the clusterfeth if two players meet, one who owns the supplement and one who doesn't? Both would be official documents and I believe the general consensus is when there's a contradiction the Codex wins.

Of course GW could try and make this a mandatory item for play, and while I wouldn't rule it out, it would be the first expansion that was required in the history of the game, even if some were so popular as to be considered 'the norm' they were never actually required.

So will i need the book to use the StormRaven for my SM?

Am I the only one who thinks it would be entirely ridiculous for them to release a book full of rules that already exist and not give any love to the armies still waiting for a flier?

Also haven't they said on multiple occasions that they never intend to give non C:SM armies the Talon?

Player not found wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
And a book with the rules for some flyers already released that arent available in print (looking at you stormtalon and ork flyer)

That was my first thought. About effing time..!

Except its $40 to get access to those rules.

 azreal13 wrote:
I would be surprised if they add ANYTHING that contradicts a codex entry, but I'm afraid anyone hoping for a stat change or points change is going to be sadly disappointed.

I mean, can you imagine the clusterfeth if two players meet, one who owns the supplement and one who doesn't? Both would be official documents and I believe the general consensus is when there's a contradiction the Codex wins.

Of course GW could try and make this a mandatory item for play, and while I wouldn't rule it out, it would be the first expansion that was required in the history of the game, even if some were so popular as to be considered 'the norm' they were never actually required.

They have already done it in WD. Flamers and screamers are different in the WD update from their codex entry.

WD was an official codex update, not an expansion, though.

 Kingsley wrote:
The more interesting element of this book for me is updates to preexisting flyers. Hopefully this means changes (read: nerfs) to the Valkyrie and Vendetta, who were clearly not designed for 6th edition. The BA Stormraven might perhaps need a bit of a change as well, though honestly this one seems less egregious. The GK Stormraven and all other flyers seem totally fine.

I wouldnt expect anything game changing in a limited release direct only book, its $40 and collects all the fliers in the game, thats probably about it. It's nothing more then a monstrous cash grab.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
The more interesting element of this book for me is updates to preexisting flyers. Hopefully this means changes (read: nerfs) to the Valkyrie and Vendetta, who were clearly not designed for 6th edition. The BA Stormraven might perhaps need a bit of a change as well, though honestly this one seems less egregious. The GK Stormraven and all other flyers seem totally fine.

I wouldnt expect anything game changing in a limited release direct only book, its $40 and collects all the fliers in the game, thats probably about it. It's nothing more then a monstrous cash grab.

I've see a lot of people try to make themselves believe this. I refer back to Ravening Hordes, where they did a limited and cheaply make booklet that replaced every army book for every fantasy army. IT WAS LIMITED! It ended up being a nightmare, I saw so many photo copied booklets.

I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

If BT don't in fact get a Talon and only a Raven instead, I suppose I'll end up needing a Raven. But with the contradictory info on the Talon, who the heck knows. Mainly an issue because I might have a source for "pre-owned" but unassembled Raven for a decent price, but it's not gonna be there while I wait for confirmation.

 Lorizael wrote:
I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

So its a patch then? A patch that we have to pay for under the guise of a campagin book.

Basically it sounds like instead of getting a rules update in WD for £5.50 we are going to have to pay £20-30 for a product with the same amount of content because we where all naughty to complain about availability of rules content in WD so there won't be any.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Basically it sounds like instead of getting a rules update in WD for £5.50 we are going to have to pay £20-30 for a product with the same amount of content because we where all naughty to complain about availability of rules content in WD so there won't be any.

Eh. If it really comes with expanded content, I'll pay for that. No different than paying for Codex: Armageddon back in the day, and that book sold like hotcakes.

Codex:Armageddon had new content, it wasn't a collection of already existing datafaxes and rules from another supplement which is quite frankly all this is starting to sound like. If the only new content is going to be two fliers then whack it in WD and put a PDF up on the website the month after. Sorted.

@kingsley we all know far too well your opinion on all GW products so we don't expect any objective commentary from you.

I don't play at an official GW store so it doesn't really matter how much the thing costs, as I can just find out the points cost and roll with that, the rules etc. themselves are already known (for the SM fliers) or easily found out. Don't need the actual book for that.

If the price isn't silly though, I can just as well buy it.

Didn;t we just have a flyers update from FW - which was pretty poor in that it had virtually nothing new.....

although it did have a SOB flyer - pretty ugly one but it was there - the Valkyrie conversion makes much more sense.

I assume it will be £30+ sadly.

If we are lucky - some / all of the FW models will be in this supplement and more official than they are already - ie no suggestion to ask permission etc.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Didn;t we just have a flyers update from FW - which was pretty poor in that it had virtually nothing new.....

Well it wasn't meant to be anything new. It was meant to be all the FW flyers in one book updated for 6th. Can't really criticise an object for not doing something it never set out to do in the first place. That'd be like condemning my toaster 'cause it doesn't make ice cubes.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Basically it sounds like instead of getting a rules update in WD for £5.50 we are going to have to pay £20-30 for a product with the same amount of content because we where all naughty to complain about availability of rules content in WD so there won't be any.

Exactly, they have an avenue for Errata as is for free on their website, any changes in this book would be minor anyway, If they actually change anything and it is a "must buy" then that makes GW a bunch of pumps.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Didn;t we just have a flyers update from FW - which was pretty poor in that it had virtually nothing new.....

Well it wasn't meant to be anything new. It was meant to be all the FW flyers in one book updated for 6th. Can't really criticise an object for not doing something it never set out to do in the first place. That'd be like condemning my toaster 'cause it doesn't make ice cubes.

Yeah maybe I was overely hopeful / not read the adverts right - there were some new Anti-Air options I suppose.

I have all the previous Imperial Armour etc books and it did seem to be getting a bit repatative with some of the entries.

I would not be suprised if some of the entries in FW book are going to be invaldiated (again) by the new GW book - I wish they would work together a bit more :(

 Kroothawk wrote:

DarkWarrior1981 over at Warseer wrote:This is not as exciting as people may think. I saw the advert for the book at a local store; It contains only rules for fliers still on sale or with a codex entry (the Dark Eldar bomber is in), some fliers have their rules updated to 6th edition (whatever this means exactly). The only thing actually new is, that the Stormraven is now available to Codex Space Marines and Black Templars as well. Also you will find the flier rules from Crusade of Fire and new missions. The book will be on sale (no pre-order) from 16th of February, is direct only (so not from your FLGS), english language only and will not be limited stock.

 Lorizael wrote:
My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon
Ork Bomba / dakka jet / burna bomba
Valkyrie / vendetta
Razorwing & Voide Raven
Night Scythe / doom scythe

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.
(...)
I'm told this book will be a range item and not a limited release.

Ah, seems like not such a big deal, then... thanks for the updates.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Codex:Armageddon had new content, it wasn't a collection of already existing datafaxes and rules from another supplement which is quite frankly all this is starting to sound like. If the only new content is going to be two fliers then whack it in WD and put a PDF up on the website the month after. Sorted.

Codex: Armageddon had a few new army lists, which at the time were being published in White Dwarf as well. The exact same argument holds-- instead of saying "why not just put the new flyers in WD that month," you could just as easily say "why not just put the Speed Freeks and Steel Legion in Chapter Approved and run two Index Astartes articles that month?" I believe (and GW apparently believes) that the community is willing to pay for this type of supplement, and historical trends seem to agree.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
@kingsley we all know far too well your opinion on all GW products so we don't expect any objective commentary from you.

Interesting that you claim to know my opinion on "all GW products." My opinion differs when it comes to different products, so your claim seems unlikely at best. For instance, I love 40k 6th edition, but WHFB 8th edition leaves me cold. I think the new Dark Eldar range are perhaps the best wargaming models produced by any manufacturer, but I was underwhelmed by the new Grey Knights, even though they are a clear improvement over the old ones-- simply because there was such room for improvement that GW missed. I think GW outright botched the new Tyranid release and that the army would be far more popular now if the Tervigon/Tyrannofex kit had come out at launch instead of the Raveners, Gargoyles, or Trygon.

Because it was 5 new army lists and story for under $20? And they werent printed in white dwarf for ages after, and it was only salamanders and black templar. At the time there was rules being printed in WD every other month and made it worth reading. They also collected those white dwarves together in one book on the off chance there wasnt any more copies, I dont remember white dwarf ever selling out before GW started artificially controlling it.

The big difference is that "willing to pay" customers werent feeling like they were getting robbed 10 years ago, now this book is looking like its $40 and going to bring a nerf stick to the table for all those people that went out and took advantage of GWs rules 6 months after the fact. Its a patch to fix GWs screw up for not properly play testing it or writing an errata, and they want you pay for their negligence! You sold something that was broken and then put hand out waiting to get paid for a fix?

 Ravenous D wrote:
The big difference is that "willing to pay" customers werent feeling like they were getting robbed 10 years ago

Speak for yourself. I think the value proposition on this is good and I'll probably buy it if it has updated rules for my stuff, or if the expanded Crusade of Fire rules are cool enough. If you don't feel that way, I suggest that you don't buy.

Why even go nuts about the price at this point, seeing as there hasn't really been anything factual posted on the price so far, only guesses (which I rate the 26€ as, too)? Besides, for armies without flyers at present it's still a good thing to get them, even if it comes at a price.

Honestly I don't see the point in this book. I don't see anyone in my area using this. And I'm quite happy how my vendetta's function now. I hope people don't use this book as an excuse to hamstring my flyiers. I don't see anywhere where the new rules in this book are mandatory.

 Lorizael wrote:
My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon
Ork Bomba / dakka jet / burna bomba
Valkyrie / vendetta
Razorwing & Voide Raven
Night Scythe / doom scythe

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.

Good. I missed the now sold-out WD with the Ork Flier Rules and the one with the Storm Talon. Now I can have the rules for these legally without having to buy a fething iPad.

 Spartan089 wrote:
Honestly I don't see the point in this book. I don't see anyone in my area using this. And I'm quite happy how my vendetta's function now. I hope people don't use this book as an excuse to hamstring my flyiers. I don't see anywhere where the new rules in this book are mandatory.

Given there's zero official info, of course you don't see anything about them being mandatory. Good luck with ignoring the changes if the rules in this book have any, though. You'll have the same or less chance of succeeding with that as you would with ignoring a FAQ update.

And big surprise you're happy with your Vendettas as is, considering it's the most undercosted flyer there is.

 tvih wrote:
Why even go nuts about the price at this point, seeing as there hasn't really been anything factual posted on the price so far, only guesses (which I rate the 26€ as, too)? Besides, for armies without flyers at present it's still a good thing to get them, even if it comes at a price.

Welcome to Dakkadakka where ingrates have been screaming about prices since before the dawn of man.

my only question is going to be Are they going to change the point cost on certain vehicles? bc that would be unkind if the book is limited edtion, hard to get, etc.

 Spartan089 wrote:
Honestly I don't see the point in this book. I don't see anyone in my area using this. And I'm quite happy how my vendetta's function now. I hope people don't use this book as an excuse to hamstring my flyiers. I don't see anywhere where the new rules in this book are mandatory.

Doesn't virtually every other post related to flyers on the forum say that the present points costs for the Vendetta/Valkyrie are wrong - perhaps thats now being fixed?

If its an official GW product its as mandotory as a Codex unless it says otherwise in the text............ same as the recent Ork flyers and SOB list in White Dwarf are not optional or the FAQs.

 tvih wrote:
Why even go nuts about the price at this point, seeing as there hasn't really been anything factual posted on the price so far, only guesses (which I rate the 26€ as, too)?

It is not a guess
BTW, I try to keep the first post updated on all news&rumours on this.

It will depend if this actually makes changes to rules or not, on if I get it or not.

I'd be a bit surprised if they alter points costs/rules in this. I wonder if it's just going to be them printing them, as if they were 6th edition entries, instead of changing any actual rules.

Didn't get through the whole thread, but did you just become a rumor monger, Kroot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am impressed by this idea if it is true. They should have gone this route earlier with the flyer rules. It is like the Chapter Approved annuals in the old days.

Still, it's a mighty big step to revise the rules for IG/Necron and the rest fliers out of the blue though.

Why not use a FAQ?

Or is it just a money scam.

If the vendetta.is changed, keep it the same cost if absolutely necessary, but drop the av down to 10 or raise its cost to at least 200pts, av12 3 twin-linked lascannon and transport capacity, hover mode etc. The very least this thing should cost is the same as the.relatively similar storm raven.

Ot.

I like the idea of a flyer supplement, if it brings in rules like dog fights I would be happy.

A small increase in points and av 11 for the IG flyer would balance things out a lot.

Oh and let me be able to take the ace fighta upgrade on my dakka jet. Why this got faqed out I'll never understand.

It looks to me like the normal GW "regurgitate some rules in one place and slap a price on it" method.

Codex: Armageddon had a few new army lists, which at the time were being published in White Dwarf as well. The exact same argument holds-- instead of saying "why not just put the new flyers in WD that month," you could just as easily say "why not just put the Speed Freeks and Steel Legion in Chapter Approved and run two Index Astartes articles that month?" I believe (and GW apparently believes) that the community is willing to pay for this type of supplement, and historical trends seem to agree.

You can't compare this to the Armageddon Campaign or Eye of Terror codex books, not by a county mile.

If its a nice book clarifying present issues with shiny pictures, some new fluff and adding some untis for those faction lacking Flyers / defences against them it will be good.

If tis just reprintng the info already out there in one place and not looking at the issues /gaps - then its not.

As somebody who uses multiple flyers regularly, I'm kind of torn on this release.

It seems halfway between an core game revision and an expansion nobody will play after week (ie Planetstrike, Siegebreaker, etc etc). Trying to gauge the impact this book will actually have has me just scratching my head and waiting.

 pretre wrote:
Didn't get through the whole thread, but did you just become a rumor monger, Kroot?

I am a rumour tracker for years. Sometimes I find the rumours ... first

Dun dun dun!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well no you are a rumor tracker being tracked on the rumor tracker.

Got a Knarloc? See? You never catch me!

Damn, I should have made my forum rank copyright protected in June 2011

 Kroothawk wrote:
Got a Knarloc? See? You never catch me!

Damn, I should have made my forum rank copyright protected in June 2011

Are those... kroot emoticons?

What...?

 Shandara wrote:


Or is it just a money scam.

Possibly this. On the plus side it sounded like you'd get units who's rules are either in old WD's or in iBooks so that would be nice but of course in order to make a book out of it you need to throw in some other stuff. I would expect price point and actual rules changes to be FAQ's though as those aren't really as optional as dogfighting rules.

KaryudoDS wrote:

 Shandara wrote:


Or is it just a money scam.

Possibly this.

Since Dakkajets and Stormtalons were released: "Flyer rules are only available in WD and iPAD. I hate GW!"
Post 'Death from the Skies': "Flyer rules are only available in WD, iPAD and an expansion book that is not limited edition. I hate GW!"

I let the first response go, but... lol

I'll take a look at it. I do hope it's an update that includes point changes but on that my hopes aren't high. I would hope Wolves would get to use one of the flyers but if not it's no big deal. Either way I'll take a look at it and if it's worth it pick it up. If not go in with several others to make a quality PDF...either way is fine with me.

@Hulksmash: YEAH! I want a storm raven for my wolves so I can load it up with an Iron Priest with Saga of the Iron Wolf and a ton of Servitors and Cyberwolves and...

Well, it's a cool idea at least.

 pretre wrote:

KaryudoDS wrote:

 Shandara wrote:


Or is it just a money scam.

Possibly this.

Since Dakkajets and Stormtalons were released: "Flyer rules are only available in WD and iPAD. I hate GW!"
Post 'Death from the Skies': "Flyer rules are only available in WD, iPAD and an expansion book that is not limited edition. I hate GW!"

I let the first response go, but... lol

I think this is a valid complaint, depending on the pricing. Say someone's an Ork player, and only an Ork player. Doesn't it seem a little harsh, even by GW's standards, for them to have to buy a 40 dollar book just to legally get rules for the 45 dollar model they already bought? I see the problem with putting them up as a free PDF online (from their point of view), but why not pull a card from PP's deck and include the rules with the model until they show up in the next codex? That way nobody's mooching their rules, but people don't have to pay double the price of the model just to use it.

 Amaya wrote:

 tvih wrote:
Why even go nuts about the price at this point, seeing as there hasn't really been anything factual posted on the price so far, only guesses (which I rate the 26€ as, too)? Besides, for armies without flyers at present it's still a good thing to get them, even if it comes at a price.

Welcome to Dakkadakka where ingrates have been screaming about prices since before the dawn of man.

Are consumers not entitled to an opinion on the value of a product? Or are you the only one who can arbitrarily decide the value of a product? Calling people ingrates because they value something differently than you do is about as flame-worthy as you can get.

If this thing has any major changes... that's another slab of money out of my wallet..

If there are no major changes (ie, no changes besides adding "flyer" to all the types) I won't buy it straight away, I already have the WD rules for the newer flyers

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
I think this is a valid complaint, depending on the pricing. Say someone's an Ork player, and only an Ork player. Doesn't it seem a little harsh, even by GW's standards, for them to have to buy a 40 dollar book just to legally get rules for the 45 dollar model they already bought? I see the problem with putting them up as a free PDF online (from their point of view), but why not pull a card from PP's deck and include the rules with the model until they show up in the next codex? That way nobody's mooching their rules, but people don't have to pay double the price of the model just to use it.

Oh, I completely agree. It is completely unfair that they cannot use their 45 dollar model without their $40 book and their $30 codex and their $60 rulebook and their $20 warboss and their $30-40 troops choice.

No one buys a Dakkajet in a vaccuum. All that said, I'm being silly. On a more serious note:

GW is providing you with legal ways to get the rules.
People weren't able to get it in WD. That stinks and was a bad move.
Not everyone has an iPad. That stinks and GW hasn't figured out a way to do DRM for PDFs yet.
Now they are giving you an option. At least the book isn't a $40 pamphlet with the rules for the flyers in it. They are trying to provide people with what they have been clamoring for and put some value in it.

Im sure every BT player out there is buying it and not complaining. And thats one hundo plus with book and Raven.

 pretre wrote:
GW is providing you with legal ways to get the rules.
People weren't able to get it in WD. That stinks and was a bad move.
Not everyone has an iPad. That stinks and GW hasn't figured out a way to do DRM for PDFs yet.
Now they are giving you an option. At least the book isn't a $40 pamphlet with the rules for the flyers in it. They are trying to provide people with what they have been clamoring for and put some value in it.

I don't think anyone's clamoring for this. It's one thing to sell the rules for your stuff, but there's not a whole lot of value in a $40 book when you're only going to use one page. That being said, I suppose this would be perfect for a group/club to go in on together, so everyone can essentially just pay for what they'll use.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
That being said, I suppose this would be perfect for a group/club to go in on together, so everyone can essentially just pay for what they'll use.

Not a bad route to take.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
I don't think anyone's clamoring for this.

Wait, are you serious? Have you been in a cave for the last year or so? Every time we talk about White Dwarf or the digital releases, or whatever, people are complaining that WD/iPad are the only ways to get the rules. People have been asking for alternate methods since they started.

It's one thing to sell the rules for your stuff, but there's not a whole lot of value in a $40 book when you're only going to use one page. That being said, I suppose this would be perfect for a group/club to go in on together, so everyone can essentially just pay for what they'll use.

Oh, so if it isn't free, it isn't a valid response to a customer need? Also, the book is not just a book of the flyers that were released in WD. It also has other content. So you aren't paying $40 for one page.

If It's an actual update, with some actual changes, not just what I've done in excel + some interesting new rules and such, I'll grab it.
If not - I have the White Dwarf issue for the Ork flyer etc, and my own work for everything else I need.
But then I have 3-4 armies that will benefit from the update, and who knows, there may be more than the fairly minimal info there is already.

Or they coould have just made IA: Aeronautica completely Official in all ways.

I meant more the fact they could just reprint the rules verbatim without any attempt at a new balance and then charge money for it, rather than misplaced outrage at the fact that the flier rules are now available again (for money).

As a company I don't begrudge them their effort, but I really hope the 'updated' rules don't mean 'with new pictures'.

 pretre wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
I don't think anyone's clamoring for this.

Wait, are you serious? Have you been in a cave for the last year or so? Every time we talk about White Dwarf or the digital releases, or whatever, people are complaining that WD/iPad are the only ways to get the rules. People have been asking for alternate methods since they started.

Clamoring for a better way to get rules? Absolutely, but this isn't it.

 pretre wrote:

It's one thing to sell the rules for your stuff, but there's not a whole lot of value in a $40 book when you're only going to use one page. That being said, I suppose this would be perfect for a group/club to go in on together, so everyone can essentially just pay for what they'll use.

Oh, so if it isn't free, it isn't a valid response to a customer need? Also, the book is not just a book of the flyers that were released in WD. It also has other content. So you aren't paying $40 for one page.

I'm sorry if that's how it came off, but that isn't what I meant. I think it makes sense to charge for the rules, but not to charge for a possibly mandatory rules update when all you need is one unit. If they're going to charge, they should get their crap together and charge for it piece-by-piece online, as PDFs. GW not being able to figure this out isn't an excuse for something like this. And from reading this thread, the only other content I've seen talked about was already in Crusade of Fire. It's a very small percent of customers that would actually get $40 of use out of this book as described here, and just because it's the only solution available doesn't make it ok.

I think it's just a very thinly-veiled reprint of the rules for the existing flyers, sort of like Chapter Approved was a reprint of various rules articles, FAQ's and Codex errata that was previously found in WD. But in the case of Chapter Approved, it was a reprint of a TON of material, in two 125-ish page books (there might have been a third, but I only have two).

I think it's cool that GW is releasing rules that are nearly impossible to get through normal channels, but rather than having them as a free PDF of some old WD articles being posted on their site, they are going for a money grab. Which really isn't surprising to me at all, lately.

 Lorizael wrote:
My sources say this will be a 70 page "compendium".

It will have updated 6th edition rules for flyers:

Stormraven (now available to space marines and BT)
Storm Talon

also dog fighting rules from crusade of fire and a new flyers scenario.

Hopefully these rumours are not entirely true. The dogfighting rules in CoF, although decent, are not that well thought out (IMO).

The list of special manoeuvers is missing an army or two, IIRC, and yet also lists special moves/abilities for Space Wolf pilots even though the pups have NO flyers and - according to this rumour - still won't after the release of this supplement.



+ Edit : Fixed the quote, sorry Kroothawk...

Looking back on my copy of CoF, the rules in there feature pilot skills for all armies, except for a few that don't have any (SoB, Daemons, Nids) and :
- Chaos (guess they forgot the drake is not a FMC?)
- Dark Eldar (why the f*?)
On the other hand, Black Templars and Space Wolves do get pilot skills even though they don't have access to any flyers... Bravo!

Please quote correctly.
I never said that. Although it could be right.

So if there are rule updates in there for vendettas or something, and it is limited edition and I don't get my hands on it, I'm just boned? Ignoring the illegal methods of rule gathering that is, because that is bad...

@ motyak: I think you read the OP wrong. It's not a limited release.

I still think it's a bit silly come out with this before making at least one flier for every army (i.e. Tau).

It's sad when you have to beg GW to take your money...Here I sit with a fairly substantial amount of disposable income and they simply can't be bothered to take it from me. :-)

I hope the details of this are incorrect - otherwise this is a STUNNING failure on GW's part.

They could easily add more flyers, even just stat wise, and adjust the others that need it.

What a spectacular failure - I hope it is not the case.

Add rules for flyers for all races that need them.

I'll be getting this only if there are major changes as someone has previously mentioned. I wish vendetta/valkyrie get fixed and then SoB get access to field them (at least valkyrie). With additional shield of faith of course.

yeah,

davethepak wrote:
I hope the details of this are incorrect - otherwise this is a STUNNING failure on GW's part.
They could easily add more flyers, even just stat wise, and adjust the others that need it.
What a spectacular failure - I hope it is not the case.
Add rules for flyers for all races that need them.

What and deny themselves an easy updated book in 3 months time 'Moar Death from the Skies"

Panic...

Have to agree with pretre, people aren't ever satisfied. We don't even know what's in the book yet (or if it's even real) and people are already blasting GW because they possibly might theoretically not create this book in the way person X wants. There are a lot of legitimate complaints with GWs current business approach, but the fanbase is sounding more and more like petulant children by the year.

If this is basically a patch for 6th, because they didn't playtest 6th enough (seriously, no-one at GW spotted that Valkyries were overpowered and that codexes without anti-flyer defence were massively nerfed?), then it should be available as a free PDF as well as in paid-for printed form.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
If this is basically a patch for 6th, because they didn't playtest 6th enough (seriously, no-one at GW spotted that Valkyries were overpowered and that codexes without anti-flyer defence were massively nerfed?), then it should be available as a free PDF as well as in paid-for printed form.

1. The Guard Codex is a 5th Ed Codex, not a 6th Ed Codex.
2. The Valk wasn't a flyer when it came out. It was a Skimmer.
3. No army needed anti-flyer defence because flyers weren't in the (main) rules yet.

meh_ wrote:
I'll be getting this only if there are major changes as someone has previously mentioned. I wish vendetta/valkyrie get fixed and then SoB get access to field them (at least valkyrie). With additional shield of faith of course.

You can take them with Allies, which I've seen done often enough and is plenty fluffy.
With Shield of Faith would be ridiculous though. xD

I think this is about the WD rules more than any codex fix. Remember the WD rules were 5th Ed. They release the book, with fluffed content from crusade of fire and maybe a few new units if they have a spring release plan while removing the exclusivity of some of the imperial flyers because more accessibility means more sales.

I'm definitely interested in this book. I like the idea of having a compilation of flyer rules available, but I'll have to look at it before I can say if I'll buy it.

 Ovion wrote:

meh_ wrote:
I'll be getting this only if there are major changes as someone has previously mentioned. I wish vendetta/valkyrie get fixed and then SoB get access to field them (at least valkyrie). With additional shield of faith of course.

You can take them with Allies, which I've seen done often enough and is plenty fluffy.
With Shield of Faith would be ridiculous though. xD

Except you can't actually put any of the sisters in the transport whihc is kinda the point

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
If this is basically a patch for 6th, because they didn't playtest 6th enough (seriously, no-one at GW spotted that Valkyries were overpowered and that codexes without anti-flyer defence were massively nerfed?), then it should be available as a free PDF as well as in paid-for printed form.

1. The Guard Codex is a 5th Ed Codex, not a 6th Ed Codex.
2. The Valk wasn't a flyer when it came out. It was a Skimmer.
3. No army needed anti-flyer defence because flyers weren't in the (main) rules yet.

Yes, I know all of that (having played a lot of 5th), but it would have been trivially easy for GW to either (a) update the Valkyrie rules and/or points costs either in the main rulebook or an FAQ (note that they do include unit summaries at the end of the MRB -- just reducing its armour a bit would have made a difference) or (b) ensure that the rules were at least reasonably balanced for existing armies (flakk missiles available to anyone who as a missile launcher, at a set cost, mandated by the main rulebook; and/or lower hull points for Flyers).

It would be nice of them to include a few GW xenos flyiers as official rules even if its to bridge the gap to the next flyer wave.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Have to agree with pretre, people aren't ever satisfied. We don't even know what's in the book yet (or if it's even real) and people are already blasting GW because they possibly might theoretically not create this book in the way person X wants. There are a lot of legitimate complaints with GWs current business approach, but the fanbase is sounding more and more like petulant children by the year.

This book is one of two things:

1) Its just an optional book that is a simple collection of the fliers in the game with add on rules for fancy dog fights, fine, its like spearhead or planet strike, not my thing because the interest will die off pretty quick but power to you if you want it.

2) Its a "must buy" with updated rules to fix oversights with some filler content to try and justify a $40 price tag, despite GW having an errata resource that is free. This makes them more a kin to con-artists then a company.

Some people dont like getting con'd out of money, its like buying something that's broken and being told it is "the greatest and best in the entire world" then when you go to return it or get it fixed, they have their hand out. It doesnt take much to think critically, supporting terrible behaviour and ideas only leads to more and worse behaviour. All GW needs to do is to stop alienating and making people feel like they are getting screwed.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Have to agree with pretre, people aren't ever satisfied. We don't even know what's in the book yet (or if it's even real) and people are already blasting GW because they possibly might theoretically not create this book in the way person X wants. There are a lot of legitimate complaints with GWs current business approach, but the fanbase is sounding more and more like petulant children by the year.

This book is one of two things:

1) Its just an optional book that is a simple collection of the fliers in the game with add on rules for fancy dog fights, fine, its like spearhead or planet strike, not my thing because the interest will die off pretty quick but power to you if you want it.

2) Its a "must buy" with updated rules to fix oversights with some filler content to try and justify a $40 price tag, despite GW having an errata resource that is free. This makes them more a kin to con-artists then a company.

Some people dont like getting con'd out of money, its like buying something that's broken and being told it is "the greatest and best in the entire world" then when you go to return it or get it fixed, they have their hand out. It doesnt take much to think critically, supporting terrible behaviour and ideas only leads to more and worse behaviour. All GW needs to do is to stop alienating and making people feel like they are getting screwed.

Which is why whining before we know anything about the book in question is silly. Sure, if it turns out that GW makes it a "mandatory" update (not like people complain when they release "mandatory" WD rules) then I'd be fine with complaints because, as you noted, that's be annoying. What I absolutely can't stand is the seeming obsession people have of painting the worst scenario possible and then moaning, wailing and gnashing the teeth over a non-issue. Just look at the DA Codex release; tons of people whining about how OP all marines are, how OP it'd be because it's written by Mat Ward, how cheese it'd be because T5 Terminatorz!!!11!!

Turns out both DA and Deathwing Knights are really well-balanced and the book wasn't written by Mat Ward. What's the meme again? Haters gonna hate?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
If this is basically a patch for 6th, because they didn't playtest 6th enough (seriously, no-one at GW spotted that Valkyries were overpowered and that codexes without anti-flyer defence were massively nerfed?), then it should be available as a free PDF as well as in paid-for printed form.

1. The Guard Codex is a 5th Ed Codex, not a 6th Ed Codex.
2. The Valk wasn't a flyer when it came out. It was a Skimmer.
3. No army needed anti-flyer defence because flyers weren't in the (main) rules yet.

Terrified that he and H.B.M.C are on the same side, pretre says "Never let the facts stop you folks!"

I go back to the Redbeard quote in my sig for almost every rumors thread. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid. Can we wait until we see the book before flipping the feth out? Let's just be excited for new things. That is what rumors threads are for (in my opinion).

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Have to agree with pretre, people aren't ever satisfied. We don't even know what's in the book yet (or if it's even real) and people are already blasting GW because they possibly might theoretically not create this book in the way person X wants. There are a lot of legitimate complaints with GWs current business approach, but the fanbase is sounding more and more like petulant children by the year.

This book is one of two things:

1) Its just an optional book that is a simple collection of the fliers in the game with add on rules for fancy dog fights, fine, its like spearhead or planet strike, not my thing because the interest will die off pretty quick but power to you if you want it.

2) Its a "must buy" with updated rules to fix oversights with some filler content to try and justify a $40 price tag, despite GW having an errata resource that is free. This makes them more a kin to con-artists then a company.

Some people dont like getting con'd out of money, its like buying something that's broken and being told it is "the greatest and best in the entire world" then when you go to return it or get it fixed, they have their hand out. It doesnt take much to think critically, supporting terrible behaviour and ideas only leads to more and worse behaviour. All GW needs to do is to stop alienating and making people feel like they are getting screwed.

Which is why whining before we know anything about the book in question is silly. Sure, if it turns out that GW makes it a "mandatory" update (not like people complain when they release "mandatory" WD rules) then I'd be fine with complaints because, as you noted, that's be annoying. What I absolutely can't stand is the seeming obsession people have of painting the worst scenario possible and then moaning, wailing and gnashing the teeth over a non-issue. Just look at the DA Codex release; tons of people whining about how OP all marines are, how OP it'd be because it's written by Mat Ward, how cheese it'd be because T5 Terminatorz!!!11!!

Turns out both DA and Deathwing Knights are really well-balanced and the book wasn't written by Mat Ward. What's the meme again? Haters gonna hate?

You're right. GW has a terrible rep. 90% of everything that people say about GW is flat wrong. The vast majority of things people predict about them is wrong. GW far more often than not gets rules right, has nicely edited products, makes their FAQs clearly worded, appropriately cost things, has an eye for balance, enlists background writers with an ear for the language, rules writers with a mind for mechanics, coherence, and fairness, and ad execs who know how to generate desire for product months in advance of release. They listen to their fan base, they remain consistently good, and they have never invalidated whole armies with one edition of a rules change, then left that army to languish as two or more editions pass it by. They certainly have never updated an army after a long hiatus and then immediately invalidated it with an edition change. They make cinematic and fun games and WHFB Daemons was the most well thought out, balanced, and reasonable rule book ever published for any game ever.

GW is judged unfairly. Why should anyone ever think that they may make mistakes in the future, especially ones in line with the mistakes THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE REPEATEDLY IN THE RECENT PAST?!?!?

The rules for DJ and SR could be posted on the instruction sheet included with the model and left at that. PP does that as a base line. No, models are not used in a vacuum, but the rules for them can be PURCHASED that way! The fact that the rules for a handfull of models are so sacrosanct to GW that they can't simply be errataed or PDF'd for a time until the new army book comes out is wholly ridiculous. Especially seeing as THEY'VE DONE IT BEFORE!

I think you'll find the truth is somewhere in the middle of those two extreme views. As is normal in these cases.

GW IS judged unfairly because they don't just get flak for all the mistakes they've made (which you'd have noticed I accnowledge in my previous post) but for a million silly things they DIDN'T do. It's pretty glaringly silly for the community to go from "waaah no access to flier rules anymore" (which was actually a valid complaint) to "waaah I have to pay for stuff!!!11!!". Seriously, we've asked for legally accessible flier rules for months and once we (seemingly) get them we whine because they're not free or because they're not exactly the way we want them, based off of GUESSES of how things might possibly potentially maybe might turn out. That's beyond healthy scepticism and fully in annoying whining territory, because it doesn't add anything to the topic.

A statement that one reserves judgment until the book is out but that one remains sceptical due to past experiences? Sure. All-out Internet rage (albeit pretty mild compared to the rest of the Internet) just doesn't add anything to the conversation at hand and clogs up the thread with meaningless drivel for those of us who came here to read about the rumours, not of how people hate GW for sodomizing their goat before sacrificing it to Cthulhu in a dark ritual in their basement.

/rant

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
how people hate GW for sodomizing their goat before sacrificing it to Cthulhu in a dark ritual in their basement.

To be fair, this has been my main complaint about GW for years.

I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

 Lorizael wrote:
I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

I don't get it either. Every new Codex is "mandatory" for the people who play that army, but that's something to get excited over.

I would love a mandatory book that fixes broken flyers, provides more interesting dogfight rules, and expands availability for other armies for both flyers and AA. Making it mandatory means they've actually fixed problems instead of just wasting energy on another throw-away supplement no one will use because it isn't "official". I'll pay $40 for a patch if it fixes the game I already have thousands of dollars invested in. Call it extortion, I don't really care at this point as long as they fix things.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Which is why whining before we know anything about the book in question is silly. Sure, if it turns out that GW makes it a "mandatory" update (not like people complain when they release "mandatory" WD rules) then I'd be fine with complaints because, as you noted, that's be annoying. What I absolutely can't stand is the seeming obsession people have of painting the worst scenario possible and then moaning, wailing and gnashing the teeth over a non-issue. Just look at the DA Codex release; tons of people whining about how OP all marines are, how OP it'd be because it's written by Mat Ward, how cheese it'd be because T5 Terminatorz!!!11!!

Turns out both DA and Deathwing Knights are really well-balanced and the book wasn't written by Mat Ward. What's the meme again? Haters gonna hate?

Well, that's a time-honored tradition around these parts. My hobby forum experience goes back to rec.games.miniatures.warhammer in the mid-90s, and I'm pretty confident that nothing fundamentally new about GW's approaches to pricing or game balance has been said in the 17ish years since. But people sure enjoy saying the same stuff over and over again. *shrug* I made my peace with GW long ago. I'd like them to do some things differently, and I still get frustrated by them at times. But they kinda are what they are, and you have to accept that if you're gonna stick around.

Although I would add that Dakka's in one of its "dour" cycles toward all things GW. It's a more negative vibe here than a few years ago (when it had a more positive vibe than in the years just before Yakface took over). IMO.

gorgon wrote:
Well, that's a time-honored tradition around these parts. My hobby forum experience goes back to rec.games.miniatures.warhammer in the mid-90s, and I'm pretty confident that nothing fundamentally new about GW's approaches to pricing or game balance has been said in the 17ish years since.

It is pretty hilarious to use google's date range to find the exact same argument from 10+ years ago. There is truly nothing new under the sun.

On a more positive and cheerful note: BT Stormraven delivering a BT CC Contemptor? I don't care how many points that is, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Yeah, I'm rather curious at the weird combos that people will come up with now that BT and SM may get the SR.

Nothing BA can't already do. TH/SS Terminators with rage is nice but just like in the BA Codex it'd be a lot of points in one spot.

I'm cautiously optimistic on this, though I'm concerned about them doing some of that LE nonsense again - Crusade of Fire left a really bad taste in my mouth. But we'll see.

I just don't get why they'd release Crusade of Fire with dog fight rules, if they only knew they were going to release them in this book too. Seems daft.

For the love of god please give the harpy some new rules and a model. None of this "I am gonne hunt flyers with S5 vector strikes and blast templates".

I need to start asking local gamers about how they feel about the Durandal Dreadnought......so I can drop it out of a Stormraven onto their heads.

I would have preferred a plastic storm eagle kit. Looks way better and i cannot get hold of.the FW one for a decent price :-(

 kitch102 wrote:
I just don't get why they'd release Crusade of Fire with dog fight rules, if they only knew they were going to release them in this book too. Seems daft.

This is a company that borrows money in order to pay dividends, nothing surprises me.

Funny, how Warseer closed a copy of this thread for being just another made up flyer rumour not worthy enough for their forum.

Zanderchief wrote:
I would have preferred a plastic storm eagle kit. Looks way better and i cannot get hold of.the FW one for a decent price :-(

Without wanting to derail the thread, you said "Forgeworld" and "decent price" in the same sentence... I didn't think those 2 could go together!

Erm ... that's what he said.
OTOH GW has surpassed FW price levels in several instances (and in Australia).

Sadly, the difference between GW and Forgeworld prices are shrinking every day. I had a notion to start a chaos army - the hellblade fighter was only a few pounds more expensive than the helldrake.

Actually, scratch the 'sadly' out - GW will just increase FW's prices more if they notice.

My angus is peppered for all of the Vendettas on eBay.

Sorry I actually meant "at UK price" excuse my stupidity.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Funny, how Warseer closed a copy of this thread for being just another made up flyer rumour not worthy enough for their forum.

It's also funny that BoLS has had two front page "articles" about Flyers and rules for Flyers coming soon.

Ahh the rumor mill.

Wow. I just painfully read the entire thread.....
give me the red pill. some serious doom and gloom prophets in this thread.

anyway, im happy to hear armies potentially getting new flyers and access to already existing ones. I think they're cool on the table and cron air excluded i enjoy playing with them. As far as the vendetta/valk nerf goes...it'll be nice to not hear a loud groan across the table when i place my two down. To me, its much more rewarding winning by skill not because my 130 pt flyer come with 3 TL lascannons.....

Ooh, picture.

 Lorizael wrote:
I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

Good point. Nothing is mandatory.
However, one of the big values playing the Big Fish games is actually finding other players with relative ease.
Even if you do find folks willing to play 3rd, you have the added challenge of the group tracking down older codexes and rulebooks.
Doable but not plug in play like whatever the current edition is.

If you play with 3rd edition rules, you might as well play Void 1.1, Vor or WarPath.
If you have to evangelize and/or provide both sides; rulebooks; etc. ---that's kind of defeating the purpose.

If these are official updates that tournaments expect then the book becomes mandatory for people trying to play a normal game of 40k. Not everyone wants to have to buy additional books to nerf their own models just to be able to play the game.

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

Putting the Derp Talon on the cover has someone lowered my hopes for this book.

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

How official is that?

Where did you find that?

Alright, I hope this ends up being a wide-sweeping flyer rebalance. It will end up being one of those damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't scenarios, but if they err on the side of "do" then we can at least expect a better game in the end. My biggest fear is that it will merely maintain the status quo and that we will have to wait for proper flyer updates with each codex. I know people will bitch and howl about paying for errata but it needs to happen one way or another. I just pray this is the flyer rebalance we need and not just a minor presentation update that keeps rules and prices the same. I guess we'll see when it hits in February. I am kind of getting my hopes up with this one (dangerous, I know) because the game really needs to fix 5th Edition's pseudo-flyers.

privateer4hire wrote:

 Lorizael wrote:
I find it amusing that people are ranting and talking about "mandatory" purchase.
You know nothing in this hobby is mandatory right?

I know people who still play 3rd edition. They buy models but haven't bought a rulebook or codex in 10+ years.

Good point. Nothing is mandatory.
However, one of the big values playing the Big Fish games is actually finding other players with relative ease.
Even if you do find folks willing to play 3rd, you have the added challenge of the group tracking down older codexes and rulebooks.
Doable but not plug in play like whatever the current edition is.

If you play with 3rd edition rules, you might as well play Void 1.1, Vor or WarPath.
If you have to evangelize and/or provide both sides; rulebooks; etc. ---that's kind of defeating the purpose.

My two buddies and my wife are about the only people I can play a game of 40K with, and it's all with 3rd edition codexes and the 4th edition Rulebook. I can see the draw of the latest editions, but why abandon such a big pile of material that I paid good money for? Other than with one of the two buddies, I also provide the codexes and armies for both sides. Doesn't stop it from being fun, and lets me collect several armies at once.

If I like any of the new vehicles, I can just use the Chapter Approved VDR rules, which are outstanding for friendly games.

Hell, just two days ago on Amazon, I bought the Dark Angels 3rd ed codex to add to my 3rd ed collection, as well as the Eldar 2nd ed codex and the 2nd ed Rulebook and Wargear book, because someday I hope to play some small 2nd ed games. All four cost me 25 dollars.

 Ouze wrote:

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

Putting the Derp Talon on the cover has someone lowered my hopes for this book.

As does the word 'compendium' while sparking a whiff of nostalgia, it doesn't bode well for the promise of new material.

Doesn't rule it out, but it doesn't suggest it either.

Space Guppy looks more and more funny every time I see it!

Sad to see it on the cover - I really dislike that model.

 Lorizael wrote:
Ooh, picture.

When GW starts selling the book in its webstore on 16th February, that's taking the fake rumour too far

BTW Warseer just made a second thread "Death from the Skies II (Now with content!) ", with just the pic and no other content

I'm with Mr Morden, they've chosen their ugliest flyer model to grace the cover of their supplement. It's such a ridiculous (in a bad way, mind!) looking thing!

Razorwing would have looked better. Hell, just put the fething vendetta on there, it got to wear the "Best unit in your codex and possibly the game!" crown for several years so the title would have been pretty apt in that case.

C'mon guys. Space Marines sell the most, so they put a Marine thing on the front. Just 'cause it happens to be a really herp-a-derp looking model doesn't mean the sheep won't buy it in droves.

Silly Sidstyler. Everyone knows that the only army that sells anything is a power armoured army. Ipso facto a power armoured flyer must be on the cover of the new flyer book for there to be any sales. Having the Vendetta on the cover wouldn't work.

Dammit... H.B.M.C ninja'd me in a roundabout way.

A dogfight between a Razorwing and Dakkajet, with other DE and Ork planes in the background would have been best I think.

Showcasing what's in the book nicely, with a Beauty and the Beast sort of vibe to it.
And look badass.

The Valkyrie and the DE fighters are great looking models but sadly the choice of cover it may suggest that all the book is to give the various Marine Chapters some more options and FA to everyone else and absolutely not addressing the rules.

As I said before - they brought out a compliation of flyers and related stuff already via Forgeworld - if they had made that completely official it would have at lest given pretty much everyone (as usual Tryanids get the finger) some options.

Even a dedicated biovore subspecies to deal with flyers would have been something.

oh well fingers crossed that I am wrong and its not worthless.

Hey, no hatin' on my Stormtalons damn it! ST has the Stormraven beat by a mile, and looks fine - though obviously not exactly realistic - in general.

Too bad most of the rumormongers seem to say BT only gets the SR, not ST, though some have suggested the latter as well.

That'd be hilarious if they stuffed the Stormraven in the Heavy Support slot. Incoming 3x talon, 3x raven lists!

Well then at least you could combat a full Necron bakery list then.

The look on the Necron player's face would be priceless.

Necron player: I chose you! NECRON BAKERY.

Marine player: Haha, your bakery is easily picked apart by my Marine Aviary list.

Necron player: Blast! My flying pastries stand no chance against a vaguely bird themed airforce. I concede ariel defeat.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
C'mon guys. Space Marines sell the most, so they put a Marine thing on the front. Just 'cause it happens to be a really herp-a-derp looking model doesn't mean the sheep won't buy it in droves.

But the Ork Dakka Jet is so much sexier of a model...

very true

however next thing you would be saying that each Major Clan of the Orks should get its own Codex

although its more in keeping with the way GW is working at present that all non Marine armies should be put into one Codex - Enemies of the Asartes or similar

 Mr Morden wrote:
Even a dedicated biovore subspecies to deal with flyers would have been something.

A "skyrovore", if you will.

sounds fun - or something like the plasma bugs from Starship Troopers - I have one of those models and use it as a Tervigon

I'm actually somewhat eager for this release, but putting a Flyer equivalent of Pumbagor in the cover is definitely a mood-killer...

 Sidstyler wrote:
A "skyrovore", if you will.

Uhh... please don't give them any 'good' ideas for new 'Nid names. The last batch were bad enough.

See, there'll be a market for those "Letters of Blood" for sure.

I am a bit confused. Crusade of Fire gave me aerial maneuvres and ace pilots tables for my Tau and my Eldar.

These range from "meh" to "funny" to "could be useful".

Anyway, this flier supplement should gather at least existing rules and unit tables in a handy book, if IA: Aeronautica can be taken as reference, there can be some minor adjustments in point costs or rules or even AV. (Barracuda dropped in price a lot, Tigershark AV was modified and so on).

Either will we be surprised with some new stuff, some FW stuff moved to 40k or just a collection of existing stuff.

We are still "six month away new Tau Codex" so I have faith.........

I thought it was 2 months?
Or 'just about to be'.
It's why no one should be starting or even playing Tau afterall, we should be waiting for the redo!
(As I was told a year and a half ago!)
(Sorry, pet peeve. xD)

Backfire wrote:
I'm actually somewhat eager for this release, but putting a Flyer equivalent of Pumbagor in the cover is definitely a mood-killer...

I have to ask, what is a pumbagor?

The unholy spawn of a Razorgor and Pumba.

So after much anticipation, where are my eldar fighter, tyranid Harpy and Ig hydra? This compilation of exsisting fliers had better include the new shines, otherwise its a blatent money grab for repackaged information gack.

Is it just me, or in the far left of that picture is that a Harpy wing? (Sorry if this has already been posted)

 mjl7atlas wrote:
So after much anticipation, where are my eldar fighter, tyranid Harpy and Ig hydra? This compilation of exsisting fliers had better include the new shines, otherwise its a blatent money grab for repackaged information gack.

Yes, how DARE they release another way for us to access stuff that isn't currently available legally outside of second-hand things?!

Yes walrus, how dare they charge 40 bucks for what could easily have been accomplished in sayyyyy a wd, or /gasp another wd insert aka deamons style, orrrrrr how about....(wait for it) a FREE PDF update on their FAQ page. Indeed.

I'm a bit late to the party since the pic of the cover came out, but it has eased my nerves a bit personally. As I'm sure others have concluded, the fact it's called a "compendium" coupled with the previous knowledge of being Direct Only suggests to me it will offer nothing new (or if there is anything new, it will be entirely optional alternate game modes ala spearhead etc). While others might be mad about that, I was greatly concerned that a release like this could cause some issues if it actually altered flyer mechanics. Some areas would use it, some wouldn't. I think people that were expecting this as some sort of patch are daydreaming. If you think GW did a haphazard job playtesting 6th ed (which personally, I don't. I like 6th ed a lot balance wise) then I'm not sure how you can imagine that GW would playtest an all flyer supplement while considering it's impact on the game as a whole.

Yea it's a little lame they're charging for something that could easily be a PDF, but it's better than not having it available at all. I'm sure one way they're looking at it (wrong or not) is that space marine, ork, & BT players haven't had to buy a codex in a while and won't have to for the foreseeable future so they shouldn't mind paying $40 if they missed out on the white dwarf.

Still curious to see what the final product is, I think the fact that it's Direct Order speaks volumes about how much of it GW intends to sell and the purpose of the book.

 mjl7atlas wrote:
Yes walrus, how dare they charge 40 bucks for what could easily have been accomplished in sayyyyy a wd, or /gasp another wd insert aka deamons style, orrrrrr how about....(wait for it) a FREE PDF update on their FAQ page. Indeed.

Obviously, you have been in cave for the last couple months. A lot of people are very unhappy about the WD release style. So this is providing another option for those that don't have the WD. As for free, as much as I might like to see that, GW is still a business. Shocking, but businesses charge money for their products.

its not shocking considering they've put WD releases on their website before, this would be the first time they ask for money.

 Ravenous D wrote:
its not shocking considering they've put WD releases on their website before, this would be the first time they ask for money.

Those days are long over, I'm afraid.

I look forward to owning a legal copy of the Dakka Jet rules, regardless.

Umm chapter approved?

Nah, not that far off, they put the blood angel dex on the website for free shortly after 5th dropped.

Probably because there wasn't enough to compile into a book. If three different armies had wd codexes, they probably would have made a book.

Doesn't matter. GW can't win. People would complain about the format if it was free....

I'd prefer free, of course...

 kronk wrote:
I'd prefer free, of course...

GW being GW, this would lead to (even less, to the extent that's possible) editing of the rules since a profit center will have changed into a cost center.

EDIT: Also: "Pre Heresy Black Templar Librarian " wat?

It probably alludes to the fact that pre-Nikea, the legions all had librarians. Of course, they weren't the black templars then, but...

Ill just say it. Expect a point hike on the vendetta

 labmouse42 wrote:
Ill just say it. Expect a point hike on the vendetta

hah. No, that's way too sensible.

Expect a points hike on the Dakkajet, Storm Talon and Nephilim. Expect points drops for Vendettas/Valks and Scythes.

 kronk wrote:
I'd prefer free, of course...

Seriously?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I'd prefer free, of course...

Seriously?

Sure. We'd all like the rules to be free. I'd also like GW to give me free puppies, but that just isn't going to happen.

 pretre wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Ill just say it. Expect a point hike on the vendetta

hah. No, that's way too sensible.

Expect a points hike on the Dakkajet, Storm Talon and Nephilim. Expect points drops for Vendettas/Valks and Scythes.

Not to be factitious here, but that is silly. From a business standpoint, GW will nerf the vendetta and scythes, while everything else will be buffed to raise sales on unpopular product. Afterall, which competetive IG/necron player doesnt have 3 of their flyers already? Very few, probably.

Neronoxx wrote:

pretre wrote:

Not to be factitious here, but that is silly. From a business standpoint, GW will nerf the vendetta and scythes, while everything else will be buffed to raise sales on unpopular product. Afterall, which competetive IG/necron player doesnt have 3 of their flyers already? Very few, probably.

It won't allow me to bold or underline a smiley face, so I'll just only quote that to try to emphasize the fact that it was a joke.

I don't think you have to be Captain Whiner of the Hypocrite Brigade to think that paying $40 for the rules for a single unit is a little steep.

It's simply lousy. I don't care what the precedent is, I don't care what other people complained about, but finding out that finding out the rules for exactly one model will cost that much is a bummer.

Yeah, GW is in a bit of a pickle because they can't please everybody, but only because they dont' want to give the rules out for free. I think them just releaseing a PDF would be awesome. But I think there is some validity to the idea that while people are willing to pay for rules, there is an upper limit that they feel is fair. And it's not like GW's track record of getting your money's worth with supplements is exactly good.

To use an analogy: if your girlfriend is upset that you won't take her out to dinner, and you decide to take her to Taco Bell, you can't really say, "why are you mad? You said you wanted to go out!" So, when people want to get the rules for their $70 kits, being told, "here, it's in this $40 book you have to special order!" isn't exactly what people had in mind.

 Polonius wrote:
I don't think you have to be Captain Whiner of the Hypocrite Brigade to think that paying $40 for the rules for a single unit is a little steep.

It's simply lousy. I don't care what the precedent is, I don't care what other people complained about, but finding out that finding out the rules for exactly one model will cost that much is a bummer.

I completely agree that paying $40 for the rules for one unit would be a little steep. Good thing the book will have far more than just the rules for one unit in it (or so the rumors say).

That's like saying that paying $30 (or whatever it was) for Chapter Approved was waay too much since I was only getting one army list out of it. Well, yeah, I only really wanted one list but the book had WAY more than that in it. Do I think this book will be Chapter Approved awesome? No idea yet, because we haven't seen more details.

"here, it's in this $40 book you have to special order!"

Have we heard this is special order only? Because last I heard it was not limited edition...

 Polonius wrote:
I don't think you have to be Captain Whiner of the Hypocrite Brigade to think that paying $40 for the rules for a single unit is a little steep.

It's simply lousy. I don't care what the precedent is, I don't care what other people complained about, but finding out that finding out the rules for exactly one model will cost that much is a bummer.

Yeah, GW is in a bit of a pickle because they can't please everybody, but only because they dont' want to give the rules out for free. I think them just releaseing a PDF would be awesome. But I think there is some validity to the idea that while people are willing to pay for rules, there is an upper limit that they feel is fair. And it's not like GW's track record of getting your money's worth with supplements is exactly good.

To use an analogy: if your girlfriend is upset that you won't take her out to dinner, and you decide to take her to Taco Bell, you can't really say, "why are you mad? You said you wanted to go out!" So, when people want to get the rules for their $70 kits, being told, "here, it's in this $40 book you have to special order!" isn't exactly what people had in mind.

The thing is, we don't know what's in the book yet.

Too slow, AlmightyWalrus, too slow.

 Mr Morden wrote:


As I said before - they brought out a compliation of flyers and related stuff already via Forgeworld - if they had made that completely official it would have at lest given pretty much everyone (as usual Tryanids get the finger) some options.

Aeronautica is official. Everything is completely usable in games of 40K or Apoc. It even says's it's 'official' in the beginning of the book.
They even write it as 'official' because they think it's funny to think of a fun game as something that can be official or unofficial.


You know some of us actually really like the Storm Talon- I have 3 as it's my 2nd favourite plastic flyer (after the Scythe).


Complaining that this could be a PDF rather than a priced book?
Well, every book GW release could also "easily be a PDF"- why bother charging for anything eh?
If you want the book and will find it useful then buy it. Don't want it? Then don't buy it.
I know I'll get it so I have the Storm Raven rules for my codex marine chapters.

 pretre wrote:
completely agree that paying $40 for the rules for one unit would be a little steep. Good thing the book will have far more than just the rules for one unit in it (or so the rumors say).

Indeed. But, if the argument is "you said you wanted your rules, here are your rules" than the rules that will be used by the consumer are important to the moral outrage exhibited.

That's like saying that paying $30 (or whatever it was) for Chapter Approved was waay too much since I was only getting one army list out of it. Well, yeah, I only really wanted one list but the book had WAY more than that in it. Do I think this book will be Chapter Approved awesome? No idea yet, because we haven't seen more details.

There is a big difference though. You probably didn't buy Salvar Chem Dogs army first, and realized after the fact that there was no legal way to get the rules. Also, getting a full army list for roughly the cost of a codex is different from one unit entry.

"here, it's in this $40 book you have to special order!"

Have we heard this is special order only? Because last I heard it was not limited edition...

The OP says it's mail order only.

 Lorizael wrote:
why bother charging for anything eh?

A Communist and an Apologist? What next GW Supporters????




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:
Indeed. But, if the argument is "you said you wanted your rules, here are your rules" than the rules that will be used by the consumer are important to the moral outrage exhibited.

Fair enough. The additional value cannot be entirely discounted, however. For example, you could split the book with others.

There is a big difference though. You probably didn't buy Salvar Chem Dogs army first, and realized after the fact that there was no legal way to get the rules. Also, getting a full army list for roughly the cost of a codex is different from one unit entry.

Sisters of Battle. Necrons. There was no legal way to get the rules outside of hunting down an old WD or getting Chapter Approved. Directly equivalent.

The OP says it's mail order only.

Aha! I missed the 'mail order only' and focused on the 'limited edition'. So stores can get it, but don't get their deep discount. My bad.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The thing is, we don't know what's in the book yet.

Which is what people say when they want to shut a conversation down, instead of making a point. Welcome to most human converstions. We're talking about someting without full knowledge.

 pretre wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Ill just say it. Expect a point hike on the vendetta

hah. No, that's way too sensible.

Expect a points hike on the Dakkajet, Storm Talon and Nephilim. Expect points drops for Vendettas/Valks and Scythes.

But in all seriousness, there's no way GW will change actual Codex entries. Updating the WD fliers that were released before 6th hit, sure. But I just can't see them changing actual Codex units.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
But in all seriousness, there's no way GW will change actual Codex entries. Updating the WD fliers that were released before 6th hit, sure. But I just can't see them changing actual Codex units.

Oh, you just had to call down the thunder, didn't you?

 pretre wrote:
[
Sisters of Battle. Necrons. There was no legal way to get the rules outside of hunting down an old WD or getting Chapter Approved. Directly equivalent.

Right, which is why paying codex level prices for a codex's worth of rules content didn't hurt so bad. This isn't advanced algebra, but when an army book was $15, a $25 CA for a full army list wasn't so bad. And even then, a lot of those rules made their way online in official form.

Also, old white dwafs were more available back then, because more people bought and read it.

It'd be nice if the thread was actually about any new tidbits of information about the book and not endless and endlessly repetitive complaining about the method of sale and price of the book for which neither has even been confirmed. For crying out loud. It's all been said a million times over by now.

 Lorizael wrote:

Aeronautica is official. Everything is completely usable in games of 40K or Apoc. It even says's it's 'official' in the beginning of the book.
They even write it as 'official' because they think it's funny to think of a fun game as something that can be official or unofficial.

It's not published under the GW brand. The units are not found in any GW-branded products, nor anything stating about FW being officially allowed. So stamping them as official in the FW book itself won't do much good while the brand separation is there. Given how pissy people get even about Codex units and their options and minute rules differences, it's hardly surprising they refuse to acknowledge the FW stuff as official. Personally I don't give a flying feth if someone uses a Forgeworld unit. Not that I've even seen anyone try to use one around here. Wouldn't be allowed in tournaments (I specifically asked, out of curiosity) though, despite the rules being quite lax otherwise. Out of curiosity, do even GW's own tournaments in the UK allow FW units? If not, can't really start going around calling them "completely usable."

 Polonius wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The thing is, we don't know what's in the book yet.

Which is what people say when they want to shut a conversation down, instead of making a point. Welcome to most human converstions. We're talking about someting without full knowledge.

To be fair, I think there's a difference between discussing something without full knowledge and predicting doom and gloom based on little information.

Some of the earlier posts in this thread have been of the latter kind and added little to the conversation.

 caminacambob wrote:
Is it just me, or in the far left of that picture is that a Harpy wing? (Sorry if this has already been posted)

Your post seemed to get lost by the gloom in this thread. Night fight rules are definitely on in this thread.

I too noticed that, hope maybe... Possibly?

 Polonius wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The thing is, we don't know what's in the book yet.

Which is what people say when they want to shut a conversation down, instead of making a point. Welcome to most human converstions. We're talking about someting without full knowledge.

As I've said several times in this very thread, there's no point in complaining about stuff that is completely made-up for all we know. Constructive discussion is one thing, completely ripping GW a new one for something they haven't done and that we don't even know if they will is just not adding anything to the conversation.