azazel the cat wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:FW Aeronautica book is not sold via GW stores or webstore, so it's a different market.
I don't know exactly what is in "Death from the Skies", but if it is just a big flyer FAQ, people will not be amused paying for it. Official point adjustments for e.g. vendetta should be in the official 6th edition update for IG, not in some English mail order only booklet.

Also, the rumour on a flyer model release is completely different from this rumour. I know that the book is coming, I only know some unconfirmed rumours about a flyer model release (the models certainly exist and are just waiting for a release slot though).

Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

Sorry I believe what you just said belongs in this thread....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503469.page

Or this one....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503564.page

I'll let you choose which.



OT, there has in a sense that they sometimes revamp codex' in WD updates.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

What a big surprise that you do. Aside from the Daemon WD update the one thing that comes to mind is the Helbrute FAQ update, but I believe I read somewhere that the original price was a typo, so I guess it was more of a fix than an adjustment.

There's also the FAQ that updated the DA and BT wargear. That included price changes on stuff like Storm Shields.

tvih wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

What a big surprise that you do. Aside from the Daemon WD update the one thing that comes to mind is the Helbrute FAQ update, but I believe I read somewhere that the original price was a typo, so I guess it was more of a fix than an adjustment.

I started playing Necrons in 5th... I EARNED THIS, DAMMIT!

Are there any rumors regarding the tyranid harpy there? :-/

 Niiai wrote:
Are there any rumors regarding the tyranid harpy there? :-/

Yeah it's going to be in "Death from the Skies Volume II"

If the vanilla marines and the BT get the storm raven, does that leave wolves as the only marine/loyalist army without a flier?

PredaKhaine wrote:
If the vanilla marines and the BT get the storm raven, does that leave wolves as the only marine/loyalist army without a flier?

Wolves and Sisters I believe. If Sisters don't get the Vendetta/Valk/Faithbomber in this book.

Sisters have two options in Imperial Aeronautica - Aquila and the new fighter whose name escapes me.

Sadly some people don't allow use of these official rules in normal play - thats why it would have been better for GW to say they were in all ways official and needed no more permssion than any other games do.

Aquila Lander - now OOP
Avenger Strike Fighter - high points costs compared to effectiveness (2 HP only hurts)

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters have two options in Imperial Aeronautica - Aquila and the new fighter whose name escapes me.

Sadly some people don't allow use of these official rules in normal play - thats why it would have been better for GW to say they were in all ways official and needed no more permssion than any other games do.

The Aquila? Really? That thing is a joke. Same with the Arvus. They both suck except for the fact they have 3 hull points. The Avenger isn't bad however. The problem with them is the 'stigma' of being Forge World. Honestly I don't think I would trade my Fast Attack choice off for an Aquila as that is a whole lot less bang for my points.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:FW Aeronautica book is not sold via GW stores or webstore, so it's a different market.
I don't know exactly what is in "Death from the Skies", but if it is just a big flyer FAQ, people will not be amused paying for it. Official point adjustments for e.g. vendetta should be in the official 6th edition update for IG, not in some English mail order only booklet.

Also, the rumour on a flyer model release is completely different from this rumour. I know that the book is coming, I only know some unconfirmed rumours about a flyer model release (the models certainly exist and are just waiting for a release slot though).

Has there ever been a precedent set for a point adjustment to a model mid-edition, or in a FAQ? I'm curious, because I really enjoy exactly how the Night Scythe works right now.

Every single marine codex being handed good drop pods, 3++ storm shields, 2 shot cyclones and a bunch of other rules. Or the chaos hellbrute, regardless it means GW can update and change things for free via their website if its a patch.

andrewm9 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters have two options in Imperial Aeronautica - Aquila and the new fighter whose name escapes me.

Sadly some people don't allow use of these official rules in normal play - thats why it would have been better for GW to say they were in all ways official and needed no more permssion than any other games do.

The Aquila? Really? That thing is a joke. Same with the Arvus. They both suck except for the fact they have 3 hull points. The Avenger isn't bad however. The problem with them is the 'stigma' of being Forge World. Honestly I don't think I would trade my Fast Attack choice off for an Aquila as that is a whole lot less bang for my points.

Oh I agree - it does seem very expensive - and I forgot about the Arvus - I don't like the look of the Avenger myself - I did make up rules for the SOB Valkyrie

Agree re the "FW Stigma" - sad but true, it did not help having the "with opponents permission in the most recent books - unlike the WFB book IIRC, which for me are just larger (and better) army books with loads of shiny pictures and fluff and increasingly better value.........

 Kingsley wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Razorwing would have looked better.

I'm not a DE player or anything, but I think the Razorwing is the apex of the current GW fliers, modelwise. I think it's the most beautiful flyer they have ever built, and that DE release as a whole was the best the HHHobby can be.

Definitely agreed. The DE release was essentially perfect-- awesome new models, awesome new rules, and price decreases on most units. I wish the same could be said of all releases.

...yeah...well they got two right, at least.

I didn't know that about the studio though, it would explain a lot if it's true. Too bad they don't let the studio take control more often...

And if any of you thinks they haven't already thought of "skyrovore" then you're mistaken. I'd bet $5 it's already scrawled out on a napkin somewhere in GW HQ.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You've gone "Full Apologist" today, haven't you pretre. It's kinda frightening.

You're coming in at the end of the conversation. I was simply showing that there was precedent for this kind of release.

Fact of the matter is that these rules, like all the Apoc Datasheets, should'a been in PDF format on the website within a month of the WD's release. Ditto for the SoB army list. Instead they intentionally chose to limit who could get the rules via releasing it in an iOS only format and asking people to pay for it.

Should or should not doesn't matter. It just was the way it was with Chapter Approved. I was providing historical precedent.

And half of the things you listed didn't even have models or the rules were available elsewhere. "Cult Terminators" - no models for them. Deathwatch? They were a conversion kit and they got a PDF release anyway. Emp's Chump... rules would be in Codex: Armageddon, no?

This was pre-Codex Armageddon, IIRC. And yes, some of those things didn't have models and this was pre-pdf days as well, iirc.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Funny, how Warseer closed a copy of this thread for being just another made up flyer rumour not worthy enough for their forum.

Hi Kroothawk- silverstu from warseer- I'm the one who nicked your info and posted it on warseer [sorry about that!]- just to clarify I locked the thread- not because of worthiness of the rumour but because of the whiney/complaining/negative attitude of the members who posted on the thread. Basically they really pee-d me off with their attitude so I closed it and i see they are doing similar things on the new thread.
I do enjoy popping over to lurk, especially on the painting forums, keep up the good work,

all the best
Stu.

I hope this isn't the only way to get updated flyer rules.
If so, they are basically forcing players to pay for them to fix rules?
Or am I misreading everything?

Personally, I would pay $40 to get official rules that increased the points cost on Valks & Scythes and/or turned the Harpy into an efficient anti-flyer.

 tvih wrote:
Why would C:SM getting Stormraven be weird? Yeah, they already have one flier, but guess what, there are other armies with two as well. And from a fluff point of view, what Ultramarines want, Ultramarines get, most likely

EDIT: Another thing that's weird that doesn't get pointed out much. While I wouldn't put it past GW to be lazy and reuse art, the proposed cover pic looks like a lazy and mild photoshopping of the Stormtalon WD entry. That one seems to have flying creatures in the background as well, so I certainly wouldn't put any stock to the wing seen in the pic on its own right.

Pretty sure those monsters were in the WD Codex entry.

I refuse to pay for an errata for an edition that just came out for which I dropped $60 on, just to nerf my own models. This is robbery plain and simple, GW has free ways of updating rules, they're called FAQs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wyomingfox wrote:
Personally, I would pay $40 to get official rules that increased the points cost on Valks & Scythes and/or turned the Harpy into an efficient anti-flyer.

And I'm sure IG and Necron players wouldn't.

IF the book includes price and rule adjustments for units already found in codices, I'm sure they'll get FAQed as well.

And yeah, of course people running cheese units like Vendettas and Scythes don't want their cheese nerfed, I mean heaven forbid them from actually having to work for their victories.

I think people are overreacting to this way too much. The book title is "compendium", or "A collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject."

I really think it's just going to be regurgitated rules in one place. I'd bet it'll simply have the WD flyers, along with updated entries for the DE/IG/Necron flyers, without point adjustments. For instance the NS entry will say unit type: Flyer. It'll have the rules for Invasion Beams under it's actual entry. Maybe even the last FAQ comment about passengers ignoring crash and burn. Etc etc for the other 5th ed flyers. Maybe in the back it'll have something tacked on at the end like Apoc formations or some Spearhead-like optional game mechanics for dogfighting that nobody will ever play.

I also find it silly that people claim cheese. Most of the big tournaments throughout 6th ed have been won by lists that feature neither Scythes nor Vendettas.

Ah,

but cheese is defined as stuff you don't use (but secretly wish you could)

morgendonner wrote:I also find it silly that people claim cheese. Most of the big tournaments throughout 6th ed have been won by lists that feature neither Scythes nor Vendettas.

Because they're the only cheese out there - not

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Ah,
but cheese is defined as stuff you don't use (but secretly wish you could)

It's not about can/can't. Heck, I bought two Vendettas, but even with my Templars being underpowered, allying into them seems such a cheesy thing to do that I haven't even summoned the willpower to properly assemble, let alone use, them.

 morgendonner wrote:
I think people are overreacting to this way too much. The book title is "compendium", or "A collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject."

I really think it's just going to be regurgitated rules in one place. I'd bet it'll simply have the WD flyers, along with updated entries for the DE/IG/Necron flyers, without point adjustments. For instance the NS entry will say unit type: Flyer. It'll have the rules for Invasion Beams under it's actual entry. Maybe even the last FAQ comment about passengers ignoring crash and burn. Etc etc for the other 5th ed flyers. Maybe in the back it'll have something tacked on at the end like Apoc formations or some Spearhead-like optional game mechanics for dogfighting that nobody will ever play.

We already know that at least one rules change will be present, though-- the Stormraven will be available for SM and Black Templars. Will other flyers have changed as well? Time will tell. I currently believe they won't so as to avoid getting my hopes up, but I wouldn't be particularly surprised if GW did use this opportunity to make some adjustments.

The only rules that will change are things that would encourage people to buy more models (i.e. more codexes can use these flyers). Raising point costs on flyers is counter productive to that.

I think the only real purpose is to be able to get the rules for the WD flyers out there in the most expensive way possible. I'd really like to have the book so I can finally point to it and say "yes, my dakka jet DOUBLES its fire" to an incredulous opponent, but I'm not sure I want to pay $40.00 for it.

This book is all about flyer mania, but my problem is, the inequality between books regarding flyers and their counters are so great. I try not to bring my dakkajets without my opponent's permission (or if he's using flyers too). To me, flyers have this huge negative psychological connotation. Having this vendetta flying around wrecking all of my vehicles or a helldrake killing all my troops, really makes the game a lot less fun, because its just something frustrating I really can't do anything about, unless I have a flyer too. (quad guns are not an answer, as any opponent with two working brain cells will just kill it turn 1). So far my orks don't have too much problem, just WAAGH and glance vendettas and storm ravens to death, but my DE just get flattened. (DE flyers are good against ground, but really expensive and don't have enough shots to really counter 'problem flyers.')

I guess the point to this ramble is, I think flyers are a 'problem' for the game right now, and in an ironic fashion, this is just is a product aimed at throwing the problem into a players face and saying "Ha-ha look! Flyers! Don't you wish you owned 3 vendettas???"

Ugh from the latest rumors I doubt there will be any point balancing, which basically means this is a money grab from GW, lame.

Will this book be legal? By that I mean legal as Forge World in other words, "opponents permission". Lets not debate the FW legality issue.

So if one person has the Death from the Skies book and another doesn't, can the player who doesn't have is say "we don't use DftS" can the person with it say they have too use it?

I still say, if it's not in your codex, you shouldn't be using it to be fair since SM and a few other armies get an advantage when some races can't do the same.

It's a compendium. If the entries are written like they were in White Dwarf they have "Official Codex Update" tags or some such. If so then yes, it's legal in all games. It's quite a bit different than Forgeworld in several ways.

 buddha wrote:
Ugh from the latest rumors I doubt there will be any point balancing, which basically means this is a money grab from GW, lame.

Kind of like Wargear, the book that was released before 5th ed and made it pretty much pointless.

faeit212 wrote:OK readers, its now official. I have the information for what will be in Death from the Skies and of course I am sharing all of it that I am allowed to. Here are the details.

No longer a rumor. Even I had concerns the image above was photoshop'd, but it is the real cover. There are no flyer releases listed out from what I have seen. Hopefully next month?

I also wonder which version of the Stormraven codex Space Marines and Black Templar will be able to use.

Death From the Skies (Direct only – Range item) 60040199031
sale through Direct on Saturday 16th February (no advanced order)
•A 72p full colour, softback, Warhammer 40,000 Compendium
•Contains a fantastic showcase of flyers available to collectors, beautifully painted by the ‘Eavy Metal team
•Contains all the updated 6th Edition rules for the following Flyers:
- Stormraven (that can now be used in Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars) and Stormtalon Gunship
- Valkyrie and Vendetta
- Ork Dakka Jet, Burna Bommer and Blitza Bommer
- Necron Night Scythe and Doom Scythe
- Dark Eldar Razorwing and Void Raven

•Includes the rules for the Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship and Ork Bommer previously available in WD
•Contains cool new content – new scenarios as well as the Dog-fighting rules from Crusade of Fire
•This compendium will be promoted on the web and by the blog
•English language only
•Please note: This product will go out of stock for short periods if demand is high

So it will be direct only. Well at least GW remembered to throw BT a bone.

Chapterhouse SR upgrade ordered

 Kroothawk wrote:

faeit212 wrote:OK readers, its now official. I have the information for what will be in Death from the Skies and of course I am sharing all of it that I am allowed to. Here are the details.

No longer a rumor. Even I had concerns the image above was photoshop'd, but it is the real cover. There are no flyer releases listed out from what I have seen. Hopefully next month?

I also wonder which version of the Stormraven codex Space Marines and Black Templar will be able to use.

Death From the Skies (Direct only – Range item) 60040199031
sale through Direct on Saturday 16th February (no advanced order)
•A 72p full colour, softback, Warhammer 40,000 Compendium
•Contains a fantastic showcase of flyers available to collectors, beautifully painted by the ‘Eavy Metal team
•Contains all the updated 6th Edition rules for the following Flyers:
- Stormraven (that can now be used in Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars) and Stormtalon Gunship
- Valkyrie and Vendetta
- Ork Dakka Jet, Burna Bommer and Blitza Bommer
- Necron Night Scythe and Doom Scythe
- Dark Eldar Razorwing and Void Raven

•Includes the rules for the Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship and Ork Bommer previously available in WD
•Contains cool new content – new scenarios as well as the Dog-fighting rules from Crusade of Fire
•This compendium will be promoted on the web and by the blog
•English language only
•Please note: This product will go out of stock for short periods if demand is high

so the worst possible version.

Givesome Marines a new toy - F&%K everyone else and ignore the known problems with other current flyers - awesome..............

So if you own a dakka jet you have to shell out $40 full price on their website for a limited time.... where to start, where to start.

Where are you guys getting a limited time? It's a general release item. They are just warning that they may have to do another print run if this item is popular.

Also I'd be surprised if stores didn't have the ability to carry it. Just like Crusade of Fire (which actually was a limited release) stores do tend to have the ability to get these items, abliet at a lower discount sometimes.

As for the actual content I'm a little sad that Space Wolves don't get the option to use a flyer but otherwise it's pretty much what I expected. Doubt I'll be dropping the cash on it personally.

As much as one would have hoped for this book to be more relevant, I'm not surprised it's just a reprint of existing content with the only new thing being that BT's and SM's can take Stormravens...

This would have been a great opportunity to patch some of the issues with individual flyers (primarily the drastically overcapable/undercosted AV12 ones) and introduce some AA weapons and flyers for those factions that currently lack them (Forgeworld notwithstanding), ensuring that nearly every 40k player would buy this book.

As is, unless you're playing vanilla SM's or BT's, or are using one of the flyers that only got WD rules and are incapable of hunting for a PDF, there's really no reason to buy this book.

If there's nothing overly exciting in it, I'll be reading the rules and remembering them when I field stormravens with my Ultramarines instead of buying the book.

Fortunately for me, I already have 2 stormravens painted in my army scheme as well, so I won't have to be shelling out any cash this time around.


Probably touching a third rail here, but if they came out with a thunderhawk kit, I would happily seperate myself from a few benjamins for it.

Strange that there's nothing about the rumored flyers for the other races.

You'd think that IF that rumors were true it'd coincide with this publication.

Oh yay, more sheep buying storm ravens.

Come on Antares, please be awesome. I'm fed up of this GW rubbish...

He did say he would share the info he was "allowed to share". Im sure if there is an upcoming flyer wave that the rules are in this book. I imagine by now GW knows everybody is aware of the book and the new Stormraven availability. If they have new models and rules you know for damn sure they are keeping the lid on it until the last minute.

 Compel wrote:
Oh yay, more sheep buying storm ravens.

Come on Antares, please be awesome. I'm fed up of this GW rubbish...

Have fun! I hear the non-GW threads are spectacular.

no new flyers for space puppies?

 pizzaguardian wrote:
no new flyers for space puppies?

They will get ridable giant wolves with pegasus wings.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Where are you guys getting a limited time? It's a general release item. They are just warning that they may have to do another print run if this item is popular.

Also I'd be surprised if stores didn't have the ability to carry it. Just like Crusade of Fire (which actually was a limited release) stores do tend to have the ability to get these items, abliet at a lower discount sometimes.

As for the actual content I'm a little sad that Space Wolves don't get the option to use a flyer but otherwise it's pretty much what I expected. Doubt I'll be dropping the cash on it personally.

I might be misreading the intent in their statements, but I don't don't think people are complaining from a perception that the release will be limited, but rather that you have to spend $40 for rules that are basically a patch and only affect one model in your army.

In other words if you only play one of the armies affected by this book, which I imagine represents the majority of players, the thought of having to spending more than the cost of a codex for access to rules for a single unit, which will be made obsolete in less time than the codex (since it's already a couple of years since the codex release) is ludicrous, especially if it's also available through direct only.

 Ravenous D wrote:
So if you own a dakka jet you have to shell out $40 full price on their website for a limited time.... where to start, where to start.

The bold is mine. And it's been a pretty common theme among the complainers. In addition to having to buy the book for rules that were published in White Dwarf.

Nothing of interest to me there; I have no interest in buying what will be an overpriced book direct from GW, and get stuck with their shipping costs and artifical Canadian prices; if my FLGS carried it with US prices, I might consider it, but even then, it'd be iffy. I might've bought one for the group, left it at the store for general use.

As it is, no thanks GW, I'll pass. How about make a compendium worth getting which addresses flyer imbalance by adding AA weapons worth using for each faction? Oh, or a plastic Hydra? Or maybe an Apoc update, I'd get that, or any other of the various subjects I'd like to see addressed.

A book full of existent fliers with "updated rules" likely amounting to listing the hull points, and releasing marine fliers to other marine factions, with "dogfighting rules" for a game poorly suited to fliers, nevermind the complicated nature of airborne combat? Excuse me while I yawn.

I suppose it's too optimistic of me to hope that "all the updated 6th edition rules" means anything other than adding "flyer" to the entry.

It'll likely have the various faq errata's for their entrys. I.E. the NS entry will say that they have invasion beams etc.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
So if you own a dakka jet you have to shell out $40 full price on their website for a limited time.... where to start, where to start.

The bold is mine. And it's been a pretty common theme among the complainers. In addition to having to buy the book for rules that were published in White Dwarf.

Yeah you might be right and it might be my own bias since I remember the campaign codices that GW put out, like the Black Crusade Codex with the Cadian rules that were good for all of three months. I just know that since it's new edition time, a new space marine codex has to be on the horizon, so if you're a marine player you're stuck paying for rules to update rules that are only 6 months old and will only be useable themselves for a short time.

Yeah updated 6th rules in english only and only availble via GW direct...so players from other countries who doesn't speak/read english and can't order online, just need to take a piss?...

I can't wait to see a tournament where 3 guys have the book, and the others don't to see how the umpire will make decisions...

 morgendonner wrote:
It'll likely have the various faq errata's for their entrys. I.E. the NS entry will say that they have invasion beams etc.

I'd laugh so hard if it didn't, and this book was quite literally a quick copy-paste job without even the relevant errata to make an easy buck.

Next we can look forward to a "Armories of the 41st Millenium" supplement for the low price of $35 containing exciting new rules such as:

- Ability to take flakk missiles for some armies that don't have them.

- Clarification on how many squads can engage in a Deathwing Assault.

- Awesome new pictures of some flakk missile launchers and Deathwing Terminators, as well as some new artwork of an Ultramarine shooting down a Helldrake.

Davor wrote:
So if one person has the Death from the Skies book and another doesn't, can the player who doesn't have is say "we don't use DftS" can the person with it say they have too use it?

You can't force someone to play you, regardless of whether or not the book has 'official' stamped across the cover. If this book has rules in it that are different to the codex, you can bet your bottom dollar that some players will refuse to accept it as legal (after all, there is no mention in the rulebook of 'compendiums' being needed to play the game!)


It will be the Wargear book all over again. That was also marked as an 'official' update, and many players simply refused to accept that any of the changes included in it were anything other than errors.

One thing's for sure, anyone trying to prevent me from using a Stormraven with my BT or SM - assuming the whole shebang is indeed entirely accurate - once the book is released can kiss my fat arse

Well, this is pointless. I'll play ball with GW if they put new flyers/rules/whatever in there, but if you aren't playing BT or SM, it's literally redundant.

Shame they didn't open up the stormtalon to other codex's as well, would quite like to feild one in my grey knights army, but oh well.

I wonder what will be updated, as I know a lots of guard players that run triple vendettas, I guess a points increase would be to good to be true.

Anyone know if this book will occasion a price hike for flyers? The Necron flyer is still a relatively reasonable price... not $75 like the Stormtalon. Should I get one while the price is good?

-C6

 catharsix wrote:
Anyone know if this book will occasion a price hike for flyers? The Necron flyer is still a relatively reasonable price... not $75 like the Stormtalon. Should I get one while the price is good?

-C6

Stormtalons are 45 USD, not 75. Price increases typically do not occur in February, though I suppose it is possible.

 insaniak wrote:
If this book has rules in it that are different to the codex, you can bet your bottom dollar that some players will refuse to accept it as legal (after all, there is no mention in the rulebook of 'compendiums' being needed to play the game!)


It will be the Wargear book all over again. That was also marked as an 'official' update, and many players simply refused to accept that any of the changes included in it were anything other than errors.

Some people take this game too seriously. Players that pick and choose their rules or refuse to play using certain armies/updates/rules generally aren't people worth playing...

Unlike a lot of people, I didn't immediately dismiss Crusade of Fire when it was announced. I even bought the book, and I think it's great.

So with that preamble out of the way, this new book GW is putting out seems like a complete waste of time. The only really 'new' thing are the Space-Guppy and Ork Bomba rules which you cannot obtain outside of iOS. It has stuff I already have in Crusade of Fire, and a bunch of pictures that show off flyers... yay?

I mean, if you really want a Chibi-Hawk for your Marines then, ok, fine, but I already own two Chibi-Hawks and never had any intention of fielding them, so what do I care?

Nothing for the wolves? Maybe they'll throw us a bone and give us flakk missiles or something, but then strength 7 sucks against flyers anyways. No flyers, means no reliable way to take on flyers.

On a side note, it would be interesting if Long Fang's Fire Control rule was updated to allow skyfire or split firing provided the squad leader was still alive, and since the squad leader is a Character, he could be challenged . But that would probably still be OP as 5 skyfire Lascannons is just ridiculous, even at 40 points per model.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I mean, if you really want a Chibi-Hawk for your Marines then, ok, fine, but I already own two Chibi-Hawks and never had any intention of fielding them, so what do I care?

Why'd you buy them then? Didn't think you were a fan of the model...

Well thats saved me some cash, no need to buy this one

 Flashman wrote:
Why'd you buy them then? Didn't think you were a fan of the model...

I'm not. I think the Chibi-Hawk looks absurd, but the CHS conversion kit (which I also have two of) helps them look as they should. As for why? For Deathwatch.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Flashman wrote:
Why'd you buy them then? Didn't think you were a fan of the model...

I'm not. I think the Chibi-Hawk looks absurd, but the CHS conversion kit (which I also have two of) helps them look as they should. As for why? For Deathwatch.

Fair enough

 Lorizael wrote:

Some people take this game too seriously. Players that pick and choose their rules or refuse to play using certain armies/updates/rules generally aren't people worth playing...

Sometimes. Sometimes they're just people who don't want to be forced to buy a book that will be rendered partially obsolete the moment GW release another codex.

Apropos, the aforementioned Wargear Book. I feel almost as sorry for the poor sods who bought that as I do for those that shelled out for GW's "We will update this... honest!" army-builder software.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lorizael wrote:

Some people take this game too seriously. Players that pick and choose their rules or refuse to play using certain armies/updates/rules generally aren't people worth playing...

Sometimes. Sometimes they're just people who don't want to be forced to buy a book that will be rendered partially obsolete the moment GW release another codex.

If its a rules update - its a rules update - we may not like it but if you ignore these - then its house rules and you will have to know the changes for tournament play - if you are into that and of course it helps for general play if everyone is using the same rules. Otherwise you get into situations where oplayers are paying different costs for the same thing for the same army.

If the only rules change is merely gving some more options to Space Marines - everyone will know - if its minor adjustments to other flyers -same - you won't have to buy it, for one thing any rules changes will be on this forum as soon as someone gets hold of it.

I hope the rumours are wrong and its not the travesty of what it could have been.

I have the old armies CD's - got good use out of them whilst they lasted

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos, the aforementioned Wargear Book. I feel almost as sorry for the poor sods who bought that as I do for those that shelled out for GW's "We will update this... honest!" army-builder software.

When did GW have an army builder?

I beliee it has released 3 army builders over the past hmm... 14 years.

The first was a general one for early 3rd edition. Then they had 2 out in 2003. "Codex Armies of The Imperium" and I think the other was "Codex Armies of the Xenos."

I had the original and Armies of the Imperium. - Both were kind of rubbish and I just stuck to Excel afterwards. I think they may have had another go later on.

 blood reaper wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos, the aforementioned Wargear Book. I feel almost as sorry for the poor sods who bought that as I do for those that shelled out for GW's "We will update this... honest!" army-builder software.

When did GW have an army builder?

Around the time the had a Forum.

 pretre wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I don't think you have to be Captain Whiner of the Hypocrite Brigade to think that paying $40 for the rules for a single unit is a little steep.

It's simply lousy. I don't care what the precedent is, I don't care what other people complained about, but finding out that finding out the rules for exactly one model will cost that much is a bummer.

I completely agree that paying $40 for the rules for one unit would be a little steep. Good thing the book will have far more than just the rules for one unit in it (or so the rumors say).

That's like saying that paying $30 (or whatever it was) for Chapter Approved was waay too much since I was only getting one army list out of it. Well, yeah, I only really wanted one list but the book had WAY more than that in it. Do I think this book will be Chapter Approved awesome? No idea yet, because we haven't seen more details.

Back orders of WD were not hard to find back then, though. In fact, IIRC you could just order them from GW, provided they still had any in stock. At least three stores in my area kept STACKS of WD back issues. And the Chapter Approved had printed errata, new lists, new entries, and the VDR and TAR. Ahh! The TAR. The last time GW put out beta rules for public consumption. One wonders how badly that backfired for them, because I assure you in my neck of the woods it was very popular and a decision that made the community feel like the company reached out to its fans for feed back.

Besides. Dude. Kroot Mercs list. /thread.

Besides. Dude. Kroot Mercs list. /thread.

Hell yeah for Chapter Approved! I have a Kroot Merc army and a Legion of the Damned Cursed Founding army. If anyone wants to see what a real "Compendium" is supposed to be like, look at the Chapter Approved books.

I like how they won't even give these expensive books original artwork on the cover.

I can has new Harpy rules?
Or at least a model?

...

No? :-(

Does anyone have pics on the new Eldar codex approved flyer, I want to know if I should just get those, or splurge on a Nightwing

rigeld2 wrote:
I can has new Harpy rules?
Or at least a model?

...

No? :-(

At this point my Spacewolves would take anything, maybe they can make a dual model box Harpy and call the Spacewolves version the Wolfy with hairy bits on it. It can be yet another "there are no wolves on Fenris thing".

This rumored book went from exciting to very quickly.

This book should be pretty cool.

Tyranids have been waiting 4 years for a model for a codex entry, I think they ought to get that, one of these days.

And maybe then I can have my plastic-fricking-hydria, 5 years on that one.

Less storm potatos and flying land raiders, more actually completing codexes, mkay?

I'm surprised Templar are getting anything... I'm happy with a Storm Raven- it'll stop me from Righteous Zealing off of the Quad Gun and outside of the Aegis line <<

so if vanilla marines are getting the SR, does that mean the ST will now be available to GK and BA?

 DarthSpader wrote:
so if vanilla marines are getting the SR, does that mean the ST will now be available to GK and BA?

I was wondering that myself. For fairness sake, I hope so. I mean, if everyone has our special toy now, we should get theirs. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm an apoc guy anyway. I'll still play them regardless.

 ruyn wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
so if vanilla marines are getting the SR, does that mean the ST will now be available to GK and BA?

I was wondering that myself. For fairness sake, I hope so. I mean, if everyone has our special toy now, we should get theirs. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm an apoc guy anyway. I'll still play them regardless.

Yeah seems a bit harsh that we only get the choice of one flyer, and they'll get two.

Everyone Marine, you mean.

It's not like Orks or DE can take other codex flyers outside of allies, after all

I wouldn't mind having access to SR or ST for my Dark Angels though. The new flyers look good, but aren't that hot in-game mainly due to being undergunned.

S5 AP - small blast, Blind being described as a rip in reality that obliterates the target makes me chuckle though..

Man i want the SR bad. It would be perfect for my Terminators.

Eldercaveman wrote:Yeah seems a bit harsh that we only get the choice of one flyer, and they'll get two.

You could be playing an army that has no flyers.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:Yeah seems a bit harsh that we only get the choice of one flyer, and they'll get two.

You could be playing an army that has no flyers.

Yeah true, it doesn't really bother me that much at the minute, as I'm not even playing Blood Angels much any more, and putting more attention into Nids.

 DarthSpader wrote:
so if vanilla marines are getting the SR, does that mean the ST will now be available to GK and BA?

Or why the Dark Angels don't get it either? The only reason I can think of is to not piss off people who paid $50 USD for a codex only to have new rules added to their army in a second book a month or two later. The dark angels have just as many transport flyers as vanilla marines currently which is none. The space guppy and bat-wing are analogous but neither are transports. Both vanilla and DA have access to the storm eagle but that's FW and a different ball of wax anyways. It's just weird that all marine chapters would get the raven except for the DA.

 warboss wrote:
It's just weird that all marine chapters would get the raven except for the DA.

..........and Space Wolves.

 ruyn wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
so if vanilla marines are getting the SR, does that mean the ST will now be available to GK and BA?

I was wondering that myself. For fairness sake, I hope so. I mean, if everyone has our special toy now, we should get theirs. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm an apoc guy anyway. I'll still play them regardless.

Because BA and GK don't already have enough other "toys"?

Look at Marine players pretending that allies don't exist, ain't they cute?

BRB, painting my White Scars Nephilim Jetfighter.

Will this be treated as an expansion and not part of the core game? Because if it is not it should be.

It will be as much a part of the core game as codexes, FAQs and lists/units released in white dwarf

If so i really hope they make that absolutely clear, otherwise we end up with the FW catch-22 - it's intended for games of 40k, but only with opponent permission

(not looking to re-ignite that one... just using as a reference)

I wouldn't mind having a book like this, just for reference's sake.
I don't own every codex, and while I do have the much coveted flyer WD with the ST and Bomma rules it'd be noce to have them in a slightly sturdier format that doesn't require me to buy an Ipad first

So now I need the core rules, my codex, WD's, faqs, and who knows how many extra books each year that GW puts out to just play the game. I think it will have to be an expansion and precedence is set with appoc, planet strike, and that new campaign book they just putout to name a few. I believe the flyer rules in that last book are optional for the core game.

They will probably do a chariot book next.

 orkcommander wrote:


They will probably do a chariot book next.

Oh god, a Tau chariot would be obnoxious. Farsight climbing on a hammerhead like a monkey, swinging wildly and flinging poo at whatever comes near. Or Space Pope in a hawaiian shirt and sunglasses riding a drone surfboard through the field of battle like he gives a feth.

 warboss wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
so if vanilla marines are getting the SR, does that mean the ST will now be available to GK and BA?

Or why the Dark Angels don't get it either? The only reason I can think of is to not piss off people who paid $50 USD for a codex only to have new rules added to their army in a second book a month or two later. The dark angels have just as many transport flyers as vanilla marines currently which is none. The space guppy and bat-wing are analogous but neither are transports. Both vanilla and DA have access to the storm eagle but that's FW and a different ball of wax anyways. It's just weird that all marine chapters would get the raven except for the DA.

Personally for me what is wierd is that GW have crowbarred loads of S%$T looking new Marine transports and gunships into the game and fluff whilst ignoring those races that actually should have them in the game - Eldar and Tau being the obvious missing models.

Thunderhawk and Storm Eagle would have been plenty good enough............

I agree that the book needs to be clear as to its status as sadly too many people refuse to use the FW books as is............

I think this will be a total waste of money and will not be needed to continue playing with any of the current flyers. It will probably include some special rules or maybe air lists like the armored battle group list. I can't see every player with flyers now need into buy this book just to keep using the already overpriced models that we have alreay been using. If there are significant changes made to curret flyers they will have to update each codex individually with an FAQ/errata PDF. GW is a greedy business, do you really think they will increase the points cost of models that sell like hot cakes. If anything expect new flyers for other races that are cheap also. GW wants your money, so they will probably give you cheap (pointswise) flyers and do a price bump simultaneously.

Those complaining about "all these books" obviously never played D&D during 2nd or towards the end of 3rd edition.

I regularly carried 2 backpacks full of just books around to my friends house when gaming.

Its the rumoured content that causes me an issue - I am more than happy to buy a shiny new book but not a lazy compliation of a few rules that does not bother to address known issues or expand the range of models available to those factions UNLIKE MARINES who don't have either flyers or Anti-flyer defense

rigeld2 wrote:
Those complaining about "all these books" obviously never played D&D during 2nd or towards the end of 3rd edition.

I regularly carried 2 backpacks full of just books around to my friends house when gaming.

So you want to carry two backpacks full of rule books AND two army bags of models? Maybe this is GW's attempt to slim down gamers.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Those complaining about "all these books" obviously never played D&D during 2nd or towards the end of 3rd edition.

I regularly carried 2 backpacks full of just books around to my friends house when gaming.

So you want to carry two backpacks full of rule books AND two army bags of models? Maybe this is GW's attempt to slim down gamers.

Geek please. Back in my day, D&D books couldn't be carried in backpacks without needing a new backpack in short order. We used milk crates and liked it.

Seriously though. Rulebook or Mini, 1-2 Codexes, Flyer if necessary. 4 Books max.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Those complaining about "all these books" obviously never played D&D during 2nd or towards the end of 3rd edition.

I regularly carried 2 backpacks full of just books around to my friends house when gaming.

So you want to carry two backpacks full of rule books AND two army bags of models? Maybe this is GW's attempt to slim down gamers.

Codex, BRB, 1-2 relevant other books, cookie sheet of models, case of termagants.
Yeah, completely unreasonable.

rigeld2 wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Those complaining about "all these books" obviously never played D&D during 2nd or towards the end of 3rd edition.

I regularly carried 2 backpacks full of just books around to my friends house when gaming.

So you want to carry two backpacks full of rule books AND two army bags of models? Maybe this is GW's attempt to slim down gamers.

Codex, BRB, 1-2 relevant other books, cookie sheet of models, case of termagants.
Yeah, completely unreasonable.

You carry your mini's on a cookie sheet? Lol

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
cookie sheet of models, case of termagants.
Yeah, completely unreasonable.

You carry your mini's on a cookie sheet? Lol

How else do you warm them up before a game?

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
You carry your mini's on a cookie sheet? Lol

Yes. A decorated one similar to a lot of tournament trays. Magnets in every base means I can turn it upside down and none of them move.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Personally for me what is wierd is that GW have crowbarred loads of S%$T looking new Marine transports and gunships into the game and fluff whilst ignoring those races that actually should have them in the game - Eldar and Tau being the obvious missing models.

Thunderhawk and Storm Eagle would have been plenty good enough............

I would've preferred Storm Eagle to Stormraven, just for the looks. Alas, the Forgeworld offering is too damn expensive.

As for Thunderhawk, that was never really a viable option for 40k. It's too large for normal matches by far, plus as huge model hugely expensive, even if it were plastic rather than resin model.

Yeah I agree that the Thunderhawk is too big for normal 40 games but the Storm Eagle is £90 - if GW had concentrated on making a good Plastic version of this it may have been £75 or less, looked great and been in keeping with the fluff.

Dark Talon and its awful ilk are £30 - £45, look dire and butcher the fluff - I hate them ;(

All IMO of course...........

uberjoras wrote:
Oh god, a Tau chariot would be obnoxious. Farsight climbing on a hammerhead like a monkey, swinging wildly and flinging poo at whatever comes near. Or Space Pope in a hawaiian shirt and sunglasses riding a drone surfboard through the field of battle like he gives a feth.

This actually would be fun to see

Any news on Eldar flyers? Pics, something?

What new Eldar flyers?

The ones coming in March along with the book, the rumors say it's going to be a new book (flyer book), a Tau, Eldar, and mabey Dark Eldar flyer, I'm asking for any news or rumors on the Eldar one

Check the first post. The only time the word Eldar appears is when they talk about the DE. No information for Eldar flyers.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It will be as much a part of the core game as codexes, FAQs and lists/units released in white dwarf

Says who?

- You will notice the 'core' game is provided in multiple languages.
- This rumored supplement is English only.
> So more like FW supplements.
> Add-ons. Optional expansions or however one may call them.

Because the only 'core' part of 40k in English only is their digital releases. And this is something printed right?

 King of the Elves wrote:
The ones coming in March along with the book, the rumors say it's going to be a new book (flyer book), a Tau, Eldar, and mabey Dark Eldar flyer, I'm asking for any news or rumors on the Eldar one

That was a separate rumor. Now, this compendium is just a rehash of WD information for all existing fliers that currently have models.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its the rumoured content that causes me an issue - I am more than happy to buy a shiny new book but not a lazy compliation of a few rules that does not bother to address known issues or expand the range of models available to those factions UNLIKE MARINES who don't have either flyers or Anti-flyer defense

Pray tell, what anti-flyer defense does Black Templars currently have outside of stuff that's available to everyone else (except Tyranids)?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its the rumoured content that causes me an issue - I am more than happy to buy a shiny new book but not a lazy compliation of a few rules that does not bother to address known issues or expand the range of models available to those factions UNLIKE MARINES who don't have either flyers or Anti-flyer defense

Pray tell, what anti-flyer defense does Black Templars currently have outside of stuff that's available to everyone else (except Tyranids)?

I heard a rumor that they're going to issue errata giving BT devestators Flakk missile for free...

At least the Black Templar Librarians have Divination...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its the rumoured content that causes me an issue - I am more than happy to buy a shiny new book but not a lazy compliation of a few rules that does not bother to address known issues or expand the range of models available to those factions UNLIKE MARINES who don't have either flyers or Anti-flyer defense

Pray tell, what anti-flyer defense does Black Templars currently have outside of stuff that's available to everyone else (except Tyranids)?

Ok fair point sorry

However IMO Marines should just get for 40K (from the IA Aeroanutica):

Flyers: Storm Eagle, Caestus,
AA: LR Helios, Whirlwind Hyperios, Contemptor-Mortis, Hyperios.

I am curious exactly how rules from the recent campaign book are "cool new rules"? How are they "new" if they already have been printed and released? What I don't understand from the beginning is given that all the chapters get their equipment from the mechanicus which only has access to a limited number of vehicle profiles to use from the days when they were actually designed new, why do they all have these different flyers? GKs and Blood Angels have one. Other marine forces have a 2nd. Dark Angels have 2 of their own. At least one of the Dark angels flyers makes sense a unique craft fitting their background. The whole "chapter X found the tech specs for this flyer/tank/weapon and despite being part of the same Imperium has told everyone else to piss off and won't share it" is getting old.

I don't mind adding flyers to the games. It adds another dimension to play and that works for me. What doesn't work for me is the typical GW method of completely changing the game dynamics and piling all the access on a few forces initially while others literally starve for access for years. Simplest solution would have been adding to each faq for the armies for 6th the ability to turn at least one of their readily available weapons into an AA weapon whether with flakk missiles for missile launchers or some other method. Would have been simple and easy to add to each faq off the bat, but GW doesn't do that. This book will come out and will probably do nothing to counter balance the lack of flyers and flyer defenses in other codecies either. I hope that is not the case, but judging from the rumors it is looking likely. :(

Gets boring when your army has to buy an imperial aegis defense line with quad cannon just to have some AA defense.

Skriker

 orkcommander wrote:
So now I need the core rules, my codex, WD's, faqs, and who knows how many extra books each year that GW puts out to just play the game.

Yeah, but thats how it is since...Rogue Trader...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pray tell, what anti-flyer defense does Black Templars currently have outside of stuff that's available to everyone else (except Tyranids)?

But once Black Templar get into close combat with a flyer, they rock

 Kroothawk wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pray tell, what anti-flyer defense does Black Templars currently have outside of stuff that's available to everyone else (except Tyranids)?

But once Black Templar get into close combat with a flyer, they rock

I think you are confusing BT with Angry Marines:

http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4236217/Angry+Marines+are+Angry/

Now that is a Flakk Launcher

Have we heard anything about what FOC slot the stormraven goes in for BT and SM?

 Skriker wrote:
I am curious exactly how rules from the recent campaign book are "cool new rules"? How are they "new" if they already have been printed and released? What I don't understand from the beginning is given that all the chapters get their equipment from the mechanicus which only has access to a limited number of vehicle profiles to use from the days when they were actually designed new, why do they all have these different flyers? GKs and Blood Angels have one. Other marine forces have a 2nd. Dark Angels have 2 of their own. At least one of the Dark angels flyers makes sense a unique craft fitting their background. The whole "chapter X found the tech specs for this flyer/tank/weapon and despite being part of the same Imperium has told everyone else to piss off and won't share it" is getting old.

I don't mind adding flyers to the games. It adds another dimension to play and that works for me. What doesn't work for me is the typical GW method of completely changing the game dynamics and piling all the access on a few forces initially while others literally starve for access for years. Simplest solution would have been adding to each faq for the armies for 6th the ability to turn at least one of their readily available weapons into an AA weapon whether with flakk missiles for missile launchers or some other method. Would have been simple and easy to add to each faq off the bat, but GW doesn't do that. This book will come out and will probably do nothing to counter balance the lack of flyers and flyer defenses in other codecies either. I hope that is not the case, but judging from the rumors it is looking likely. :(

Gets boring when your army has to buy an imperial aegis defense line with quad cannon just to have some AA defense.

Skriker

I'm a little tired of people complaining that codices are different, they are suppose to be. If you don't like the one you're playing it's very simple play a different one or get some allies.

The imagery I have is the adeptus mechanicus finds or develops the technology and has an arms show every so often where the different chapters and forces of the imperium order up what suites them individually. Kind of like real life, our air force planes and navy planes are different . Everyone can't have everything there are economics and training involved. That's just my two cents.

And in case of imperium , just the distance being half a galaxy away may cause many chapters to not receive some new toys.

Unfortunately the "exception" that Chapters may have the occassional peice of old tech or rare design now seems to be the standard so that all Chapters will end up with their own custom armoury. This may be a good marketing tool (and hence likely to continue) but it does weaken the pivotal plot point of interdependance of the Astartes /Imperium/ Mechanicus IMO

Plus whole races that are shown repeatedly with large numbers of flyers (Eldar, Tau) are yet again sidelined for the latest Marine toy flyer.......

I play marines as well as other armies but the increasing production line of so many different (and IMO awful looking) Marine flyers is depressing................

 Mr Morden wrote:
Plus whole races that are shown repeatedly with large numbers of flyers (Eldar, Tau) are yet again sidelined for the latest Marine toy flyer.......

I play marines as well as other armies but the increasing production line of so many different (and IMO awful looking) Marine flyers is depressing................

Latest Marine toy flier? That has nothing to do with Death from the Skies, since it's only existing two fliers adressed here, and one of them given to two "new" Chapters, of which especially Templars truly need it.

There's of course the new DA flyer, but it only makes sense with their new Codex. Now, while there are older codices, at least DA was still quite old too and not exactly top notch, and thus also deserving of an update, even if Eldar, Tau and Templars certainly deserve it too.

Anyway, even with the new DA flyer there are in fact only 3 Marine flyers, which isn't even that many compared to just how many marine chapters and players there are. As for looks, yeah, Stormraven is quite lame, but for us Templars with this book it becomes kind of a must - it'd be cool to get a custom "fighter"-type flyer when we get out codex, we are a fleet chapter after. I actually quite like the Stormtalon's look even though it looks like it'd fall like a brick, and the DA flyer isn't bad either. But as always, looks are a matter of taste. I wouldn't touch Tau with a ten-foot pole, Eldar is bleh, DE have only some nice-looking things, Necron varies, Tyranids and Demons are mostly bleh, Orks are made of awesomesauce, Chaos Marines and normal Marines are nice and with nice vehicles - although regular non-elite marines and perhaps basic Terminators are admittedly a tad too plain (which is another reason why my tabardy Templars are such a good choice!).

Its probably me being old fashioned but I prefered that the Astartes just did not bother with fighter combat - they had hugely powerful dedicated gunships that blasted their way into and out of specific situations, or they used teleportation or they used Drop Pods. I think both the Storm Eagle and the Caestus looked and felt like they contine this theme nicely?

The new ones just don't do that for me in looks or abilities.

AA: LR Helios, Whirlwind Hyperios, Contemptor-Mortis, Hyperios. All make sense to me and provide their intergral air support without having to worry about creating yet more dedicated craft that require Astartes to crew them - that approx 1000 mariens keeps getting stretched.

I like Black Templars - I have a small force of my own - and likely get more as I enjoyed Helsreach so much. One of the many things I really liked in that novel was the Navy squadron that took such pride in having served with the BT before and being allowed to bear the Templar Cross. I am thinking about getting a Navy flyer painted up in that scheme especially

Looks are def a matter of taste

Didn't the DA get two new flyers? - so in 40K they have 3 or perhaps 4 and the Eldar and Tau have Zero - which makes no sense. What makes it silly is that this new book could (perhaps it still will - please god) have given a flyer to those races that don't have one and /or an AA option (especially for the poor Tryanids) at the same time as giving the new options to the Astartes. There are still Codex entries that have no model........ Dark Eldar bomber being an obvious example.

Again these new Marine flyers just have no sense of heritage or continuitiy to me at least - just a way of selling models to marine players and trying to patch some "flyer" holes in the rules (but not all) that they failed to do when the released 6th ed, the FAQs and then IA Aearonautica and did not make it totally official.

Yes, DA got "two" but it's still just one model kit. Just like how Orks have one kit but three flyers that come out of it, etc.

Other than that the units you list are FW ones. I mean, if we start to include FW then Tau and Eldar already have flyers too.

Mind you, I'd love to have Storm Eagle (as well as the WW Hyperios) in codices rather than in IA, but I don't think that's going to happen. It looks far better than a Stormraven, but unfortunately aside from the FW aversion a lot of people have it's just too damn expensive at £90. By comparison I just ordered a Stormraven for 46€ from Wayland.

 tvih wrote:
Yes, DA got "two" but it's still just one model kit. Just like how Orks have one kit but three flyers that come out of it, etc.

Other than that the units you list are FW ones. I mean, if we start to include FW then Tau and Eldar already have flyers too.

Mind you, I'd love to have Storm Eagle (as well as the WW Hyperios) in codices rather than in IA, but I don't think that's going to happen. It looks far better than a Stormraven, but unfortunately aside from the FW aversion a lot of people have it's just too damn expensive at £90. By comparison I just ordered a Stormraven for 46€ from Wayland.

I think the point he was making with those FW units was that they are AA units that fit with the fluff of how Marines operate. In the fluff they've always been a ground-based force. The only aircraft ever mentioned in BL books or "studio fluff" has been for the explicit purpose of getting boots and treads on the ground safely, until they started selling flyer kits. A rapid-insertion strike force, which is what the Marines are, shouldn't need or be able to maintain air support. Sure, in long protracted campaigns they'd have Navy support, but that's the exception, not the norm. Meanwhile, you have the Eldar, whose biggest advantage has always been their air and space assets, and the Tau, who are also known for air superiority, getting nothing from the main design studio. Sure, it's a good business decision, but it's still a little confusing as a gamer.

^This. GW is being silly, and us xenos players are somewhat befuddled by their decisions from a gamer's standpoint. From a business standpoint, it makes sense, but you really don't want a game that in the long run has only marines versus marines. After all, the Imperium isn't in total civil war (yet) according to the fluff. It doesn't look cool on the table, and won't attract little Timmy who wants the cool space bugs or the totally awesome fast elf people in space.

Well that much is true, Marines don't seem to use "planetary" fighters much in the fluff, and rather seem to rely on IG for that.

 tvih wrote:
Well that much is true, Marines don't seem to use "planetary" fighters much in the fluff, and rather seem to rely on IG for that.

That's what I see on the table top also...

 Red Viper wrote:

 tvih wrote:
Well that much is true, Marines don't seem to use "planetary" fighters much in the fluff, and rather seem to rely on IG for that.

That's what I see on the table top also...

Well, that's mostly because C:SM are the only marine codex to currently have fighters, and Stormtalon being that fighter totally pales in comparison to Vendettas. So no surprise there. I've used Stormtalon twice so far. I do have Vendettas but haven't fully assembled them, and as such not used them either. Though them being so cheesy a choice dims my will to use 'em as well

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 tvih wrote:
Yes, DA got "two" but it's still just one model kit. Just like how Orks have one kit but three flyers that come out of it, etc.

Other than that the units you list are FW ones. I mean, if we start to include FW then Tau and Eldar already have flyers too.

Mind you, I'd love to have Storm Eagle (as well as the WW Hyperios) in codices rather than in IA, but I don't think that's going to happen. It looks far better than a Stormraven, but unfortunately aside from the FW aversion a lot of people have it's just too damn expensive at £90. By comparison I just ordered a Stormraven for 46€ from Wayland.

I think the point he was making with those FW units was that they are AA units that fit with the fluff of how Marines operate. In the fluff they've always been a ground-based force. The only aircraft ever mentioned in BL books or "studio fluff" has been for the explicit purpose of getting boots and treads on the ground safely, until they started selling flyer kits. A rapid-insertion strike force, which is what the Marines are, shouldn't need or be able to maintain air support. Sure, in long protracted campaigns they'd have Navy support, but that's the exception, not the norm. Meanwhile, you have the Eldar, whose biggest advantage has always been their air and space assets, and the Tau, who are also known for air superiority, getting nothing from the main design studio. Sure, it's a good business decision, but it's still a little confusing as a gamer.

Thank you that was exactly what I was trying to say

 orkcommander wrote:
I'm a little tired of people complaining that codices are different, they are suppose to be. If you don't like the one you're playing it's very simple play a different one or get some allies.

The imagery I have is the adeptus mechanicus finds or develops the technology and has an arms show every so often where the different chapters and forces of the imperium order up what suites them individually. Kind of like real life, our air force planes and navy planes are different . Everyone can't have everything there are economics and training involved. That's just my two cents.

Feel free to be tired about it. I don't even put space marines on the table these days, so really don't care. I just think it is silly because of the fluff. Luckily I am entiteld to my opinion and you are entiteld to yours as well. Unfortunately while we are both discussing based on fluff and the environment the real answer is more akin to GW wanting people to have to buy more armies to use all the cool stuff out there, or buy more allies now. With allies now they might sell more of those speciality vehicles since it is easier to buy an hq/1troop/1 slot for whichever vehicle you want than to buy another whole army. Kind of like those cool new monster summoning rules in WFB 8 so that they can sell more of those high priced monster kits that people generally didn't used to need too many of.

Skriker

These updated rules: Are they the same as the codex units + the FAQ update or will for instance the dark eldar flyers gains vector dancer rule?

 Niiai wrote:
These updated rules: Are they the same as the codex units + the FAQ update or will for instance the dark eldar flyers gains vector dancer rule?

Probably the former, but we'll know in a few days.

Should it not have been announced by now?

Given what I have seen thus far I can only hope that.

1: Add new flyers to armies that are in need of them, or access to other flyers to armies with just one.

2: update 5th ed flyers(Stormraven/Vendeta/Valkerie/Stormtallon,Night Scythe/Doom Scythe...ect) Maybe giving them some new Load out options.

3: Fix or explain some of the issues regarding Fighters Ace's from Crusade of Fire book.

4: Add some new Skyfire units to Armies that do not currently have them.

5: This is a patch to the game and not a "use it if you want to but, you don't have to" supplement.


Other than that, I look forward to this wave of flyers.

Please no to #2. Unless point costs are raised in certain specific cases there's no reason to "give them new load out options".

In regard to number 5 if it's a compulsory alterering of the rules then it should be available as a free FAQ on the GW website not a paid purchase.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Should it not have been announced by now?

No, as it is a silent mail order only release without any preorder period. Seems they themselves are not quite comfortable with this English-only product.

Romeras over on warseer wrote:
Can confirm guys, definitely going ahead, nothing new in it just a compilation of all the flyer rules into one handy supplement, supposed to be au $35 so for every one else about half that price lol. Storm ravens are definitely able to be taken for Space Marines and Black Templar, bu that's the only change.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
In regard to number 5 if it's a compulsory alterering of the rules then it should be available as a free FAQ on the GW website not a paid purchase.

Check this link - it will show you some examples of exactly what you are saying they should not do.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat790002a&rootCatGameStyle=books

@nolzur: I lol'd.

 nolzur wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
In regard to number 5 if it's a compulsory alterering of the rules then it should be available as a free FAQ on the GW website not a paid purchase.

Check this link - it will show you some examples of exactly what you are saying they should not do.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat790002a&rootCatGameStyle=books

Take five minutes to re-read bladerikers point five and my comment and then try and engage brain.

Bladeriker mentions a patch for the game.. If it is an all encompassing rules change for core mechanics then it should be available as an FAQ like how they changed the Look out Sir rule for 40k or when they errata'd Power Scroll for fantasy. In no way should whole game changes be a compulsory purchase between editions.

Again if the rules are a fundamental change to a codexes rules the it should be available as a free supplement like with the Blood Angels or Sisters Codex. If they want to implement a binding rules change to codex or army book and charge for it then they should release a new edition.

Creating charged for 0.5 editions of core rules or codexes/army books sets the perfect precedent for gouging the living daylights out of gamers.

The point made above coupled with the fact that it is english only makes me belive this will an optional supplement and not required for 6th edition play.

In all honesty it's very much like a lot of old faq's and updates in a bound paid for volume. As long as these are available for free, even if in a less convenient format then I see no problem in offering a bound compilation, some people will want and benefit from that. It will be interesting to see if the supposed update allowing storm ravens for c:sm will be updated in the digital codex.

Third Edition 40k had an almost required update to the rules that was only available in WD and Chapter Approved re-release, the Trial Assault Rules.

Either way, there were FAQs and updates bound in a pay for volume and we loved them.

Almost is not compulsory ergo your argument is inherently flawed by your own admission.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Almost is not compulsory ergo your argument is inherently flawed by your own admission.

Nothing is compulsory. This book will not be compulsory, even if it says 'Must be used for every game of 40k under punishment of death'. People, after all, are free to do as they choose and GW cannot compel them to use anything.

Ergo your argument is inherently way too full of itself.

Nah he's right. The TAR and TVR were never required. You didn't need them. "Nothing is compulsory!!!" is a cop-out argument.

Nope my argument is correct. Trying to state it is full of itself is merely a poor attempt to be inflammatory.

The rules you where referring to are obviously the trial assault rules which where as suggested by the name trial, optional and open to feedback from the community. These where then adopted in the edition change.

If you want to play 40K then you play with the 40K rules, an official update to play 40K is compulsory if you want to play 40K. Campaign books are always stated as optional such as crusade of fire as these are an exception that occur within the core structure of the game.

If you want to play billy Bobby's basement 40K of home brew rules then go ahead but you are not playing 40K.

You will also note from my previous post what I actually expect from this book my earlier comments where in reference to bladerikers post.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
The rules you where referring to are obviously the trial assault rules which where as suggested by the name trial, optional and open to feedback from the community. These where then adopted in the edition change.

You are missing the actual circumstances. They were an update to the assault rules that were compulsory to use in 40k if you wanted to play with other people to the same degree that a flyer update would be. I.e. The kind of people who care about updates cared and required them for play. The kind of people who didn't care about updates ignored them and played according to the main rulebook.

If you want to play 40K then you play with the 40K rules, an official update to play 40K is compulsory if you want to play 40K. Campaign books are always stated as optional such as crusade of fire as these are an exception that occur within the core structure of the game.

You should tell all those folks playing RT, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th edition that they are doing it wrong then. They thought they were playing 40k.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nah he's right. The TAR and TVR were never required. You didn't need them. "Nothing is compulsory!!!" is a cop-out argument.

Unfortunately, the Tau codex used the TVR.

I say unfortunately because a Devilfish that allowed 6 FCW to fire would have been awesome.

@pretre No they where not compulsory, they where a trial. It was an option for gamers to explore it was never compulsory. If your gaming group chose to use those rules solely that was up to them. So once again your trying to push fallacies to support your incorrect position.

As for playing previous editions that is now akin to playing bily bobs home rules . It is not equal to what is currently 40k. You can choose to hack the ball through an opposing teams scrum, but your not playing rugby.

However you also seem unable to grasp that my comments wherein reference to bladerikers point number five not to what I believe the supplement actually will be as I outlined in a following post.

Take a deep breath, count to ten and read those posts again and see if you can keep up.

You should tell all those folks playing RT, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th edition that they are doing it wrong then. They thought they were playing 40k.

I can do the first four of those, but not even an inkling of 6th. Pretty sure I am playing 40K, and have been for nearly 20 years. Just not the version where you have to buy every little thing to stay current, or you will be chastised.

Also, if this new Flyer book somehow contains new rules (I seriously doubt that, other than opening up flyers to new Chapters of SM) that you have to buy, or you are "playing billy bobs home rules, not real 40K", I guess every gamer that's not an English speaker and can buy this book is kinda screwed then............

 pretre wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Almost is not compulsory ergo your argument is inherently flawed by your own admission.

Nothing is compulsory. This book will not be compulsory, even if it says 'Must be used for every game of 40k under punishment of death'. People, after all, are free to do as they choose and GW cannot compel them to use anything.

Ergo your argument is inherently way too full of itself.

It's not just the argument that is too full of itself...

 pretre wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Almost is not compulsory ergo your argument is inherently flawed by your own admission.

Nothing is compulsory. This book will not be compulsory, even if it says 'Must be used for every game of 40k under punishment of death'. People, after all, are free to do as they choose and GW cannot compel them to use anything.

Well thats a fallacy.

I get what you're saying, but if you want to stay current and know what you're facing you have to buy the damn book/whatever, otherwise we trust our opponent to be honest and/or knowledgable with his own rules.

pretre wrote:You are missing the actual circumstances. They were an update to the assault rules that were compulsory to use in 40k if you wanted to play with other people to the same degree that a flyer update would be. I.e. The kind of people who care about updates cared and required them for play. The kind of people who didn't care about updates ignored them and played according to the main rulebook.

I think you may be basing your view of the Trial Assault and Vehicle rules on purely anecdotal evidence...

They were used in some areas, not so much in others. The group I was playing with at the time ignored them, because they weren't 'official' rules, just a trial. They were never an 'official update'... they were a set of trial rules for people to try out to help the studio iron out the direction they were going to go in 4th edition.

Ravenous D wrote:I get what you're saying, but if you want to stay current and know what you're facing you have to buy the damn book/whatever, otherwise we trust our opponent to be honest and/or knowledgable with his own rules.

Or you just don't play games using those rules...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nah he's right. The TAR and TVR were never required. You didn't need them. "Nothing is compulsory!!!" is a cop-out argument.

Note I said almost. Also, Insaniak is correct, my perception is colored by my experience at te time.

In the US the "Trial Rules" were used for GW GT's. So they were official here. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Otherwise I don't have a dog in this fight

Yeah but that's tournaments. They can introduce or ban whatever special rules they want.

I know our group adopted the TAR straight away, but were less enthusiastic about the TVR.

Either way, unless I'm completely mistaken, they were released at a time when White Dwarf was cheaper, better, more widely available, and most stores and the GW online stores had back issues.

I'm also, as a rule, willing to pay a little more for well (or at least better) thought out rules that replace one of the core aspects of the game over many pages than I am for a single unit entry and a line that says "may be taken as a Fast Attack choice in Black Templars Armies."

I mean, sure, there are more rules than the ST and Ork Fighta in there, but aren't those the only ones not in their army book? Constantly comparing this collection to the giant book of awesome that was Chapter Approved only helps more sharply illustrate the idea that we'll be paying a lot for a very few rules.

Three days till release and nothing on Advance Orders on main website. What the heck is GW's marketing team doing?

Same as they have been for years.

Standing in the Unemployment office..

Things I would like to see:

Vendetta getting a good price increase.

Dark Eldar flyers getting vector strike. (Fits with the fluff.)

The harpy gets re-worked and becomes useful. It is suppose to be our anti air. It cannot damage air. ^_^

Stormtallon Gunship for SW.

If they are just re-printing old rules...man that would be bad.

I was actually looking forward to this book, or really what it could have been. I thought they were supposed to do another wave of flyers and update some of the existing flyers.

Right now there are two things that bother me with this.
1.) Why would someone buy this book that's online only? The reason why I didn't get Crusade of Fire was because it was available at my FLGS and was able to thumb through it quickly and realize that it offered nothing interesting. Without this even being available to look through and probably only a vague summary on the GW site there is no information I have to go off of on if I should buy it or not. Basically it seems like they're hiding it to me. Crusade of Fire did bad so they're going to do limited runs vice trying to produce a book with worthwhile content.

2.) Am I the only one that thinks it's odd that SM will technically be getting a second flyer suppliment before some armies even get 1?

Savageconvoy:
1) Great point!

2) They are the chosen children of GW.

@savageconvoy they also shrink wrapped the warriors of chaos books to stop sneaky peeks aswell

Bramgaunt on Warseer wrote:
I can confirm the book for this weekend. 100% sure. No models to accompany it. Direct only, so if you expect to get one walking into your local shop, you'll be disappointed. Also, stores do not get a preview copy. If you want to have a look in it, you have to actually buy it, or go to see someone who has it.

Well i think that will make it an easy decision for a lot of people not to purchase this.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Well i think that will make it an easy decision for a lot of people not to purchase this.

Why, because it is direct only? That hasn't stopped Crusade of Fire from selling out or the limited editions. I already am in the process of trying to pre-order DftS.

 pretre wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Well i think that will make it an easy decision for a lot of people not to purchase this.

Why, because it is direct only? That hasn't stopped Crusade of Fire from selling out or the limited editions. I already am in the process of trying to pre-order DftS.

Because with a book like this, it seems like the risk:reward ratio is a bit skewed towards risk. Nobody wants to blindly jump into a book like this just to be disappointed when they get it.

Wow this is backwards. Im happy to use the Raven I JUST BOUGHT but the courtesy of a preview would have been nice.

"HAI GUISE THIS IS GW. WE WANT YOU TO BUY OUR BOOK. MAYBE YOUVE HEARD OF IT THROUGH NON-GW SITES? WE WONT TELL YOU WHATS IN IT BUT WE ARE SURE YOULL LOVE IT! BAI BAI!!!"

 Niiai wrote:
Things I would like to see:

The harpy gets re-worked and becomes useful. It is suppose to be our anti air. It cannot damage air. ^_^

Yeah they really need to Errata that fluff.

I just think people aren't getting motivated about a book that the seller isn't really motivated to try and sell. No teaser, no preview, no store copy, and direct buy only from a website. I just don't want to drop money into a book that I don't know anything about. The company doesn't have reviews from customers so I get no feedback on the worth of it. They will probably put in a loaded summary of the book that tells me nothing about it.

And really my biggest question would be why would you preorder it? I don't think I've ever had trouble finding an item in stock at the local store or online. Why would you order something before it's officially available for sale? GW has produced subpar books and units. Crusade of Fire, the DA flyers, and mutilators to name a few. I'm just really curious because I've never seen a reason for a pre-order.

Ill just go to my local shop and play my Raven at BA specs. Im sure nobody will care.

 pretre wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Well i think that will make it an easy decision for a lot of people not to purchase this.

Why, because it is direct only? That hasn't stopped Crusade of Fire from selling out or the limited editions. I already am in the process of trying to pre-order DftS.

Crusade of Fire was available at my FLGS for me to peruse before deciding not to buy it.
If this isn't then I'm guaranteed not to buy it.

This is no different that CoF. They were both direct only. We know what is in it. If your FLGS ordered CoF, they will probably order this as well.

Tempest in a teacup.

My local shop had CoF in stock, I had reserved the damn thing. They even called to let me know it was in. Of course I turned it down once I learned BT got Fighter Ace rules but couldnt use them.

Guess Ill call and reserve this thing IF they get it, which is exactly what I did last time. Then look at it when Im in-store.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Of course I turned it down once I learned BT got Fighter Ace rules but couldnt use them.

Hmm, it is as if CoF was written with the knowledge that BT would get fliers in the near future. Weird.

Like how the Nephilim has Missile Lock and the Darkshroud has both Stealth and the rule where it can't get Stealth from Darkshrouds.

But still, why would they put in rules for BT getting Fighter Ace when the book that gives them flyers would probably give them the same thing CoF did?

 pretre wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Of course I turned it down once I learned BT got Fighter Ace rules but couldnt use them.

Hmm, it is as if CoF was written with the knowledge that BT would get fliers in the near future. Weird.

Who knows with GW. I may not have got a flyer til a new codex in 2014. I can memorize one page of Fighter Ace rules.

 Savageconvoy wrote:


But still, why would they put in rules for BT getting Fighter Ace when the book that gives them flyers would probably give them the same thing CoF did?

My point exactly. CoF wouldnt benefit me in any way. There is no advance notice with those people. If GW had their gak together and said "BT will get flyers in a month or two" I probably would have pick my reserved copy up. But Im glad I held out, because by the looks of thing this book will cover everything.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:


But still, why would they put in rules for BT getting Fighter Ace when the book that gives them flyers would probably give them the same thing CoF did?

My point exactly. CoF wouldnt benefit me in any way. For all I knew at the time, we wouldnt get flyers until a new codex in 2014. If GW had their gak together and said "BT will get flyers in a month or two" I probably would have pick my reserved copy up. But Im glad I held out, because by the looks of thing this book will cover everything.

Maybe they have said this, did you check their Facebook page?

Oh, wait...

I got a transcript of one of their planning sessions for CoF.

I would have been happy with the Talon for my Wolves, but oh well. I'll live somehow

I'm sure a local store will have it and I'll likely pick it up to add to the gaming library. Granted I'll likely scan it in for my Nook since I like to keep all my books/codexes/pdf's in one easily accessible spot.

 pretre wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Well i think that will make it an easy decision for a lot of people not to purchase this.

Why, because it is direct only? That hasn't stopped Crusade of Fire from selling out or the limited editions. I already am in the process of trying to pre-order DftS.

Well if anyone is looking: Vanguard Games in Reedsburg WI still has 2 copies of CoF. Been sitting on the shelf since release.

 thehod wrote:
I got a transcript of one of their planning sessions for CoF.

they could have given them to chaos....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
Things I would like to see:

Vendetta getting a good price increase.

Dark Eldar flyers getting vector strike. (Fits with the fluff.)

The harpy gets re-worked and becomes useful. It is suppose to be our anti air. It cannot damage air. ^_^

Stormtallon Gunship for SW.

If they are just re-printing old rules...man that would be bad.

DE flyers should get vector dancer, not vector strike. I dont know how the pilot is supposed to reach out and grab things he passes over.

Valkaries and Vendettas should go to AV11 and have a price increase. 120/150

Chaos should get stormravens, without marchine spirit


I would really like the void weaponry on the bomber to be ap1

So... the book is supposedly going to appear tomorrow and still nothing... or is it just going on advance order tomorrow?

GW's individual store FB pages have been talking about the super secret release.

Probably advanced order tomorrow per usual, but who can say?

 Exergy wrote:

DE flyers should get vector dancer, not vector strike. I dont know how the pilot is supposed to reach out and grab things he passes over.

Valkaries and Vendettas should go to AV11 and have a price increase. 120/150

Chaos should get stormravens, without marchine spirit


I would really like the void weaponry on the bomber to be ap1

A price increase on Valkyries?
Are you serious?

Vendettas are the problem, not Valkyries.

 pretre wrote:
GW's individual store FB pages have been talking about the super secret release.

Not the Australia ones

SpikeyBitz claims it's confirmed to be announced/released tonight.

Well, it looks to be officially called a 'compendium'. I think odds of it having anything new is low.

I can't believe that message. "Hey guys, get excited. This book is only available by us, only in one language, and I'm not going to tell you anything that it contains. But trust me, you really want it."

I'm really just waiting for the day that GW just starts offering people a $350 mystery box on their site. And even when 90% of the people get upset that the mystery box is empty, 10% will defend GW because they got a $23 model in their mystery box.

SUPER SECRET!!! I wonder what it is? Oh that sneaky Games Workshop, always suprising us........

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I can't believe that message. "Hey guys, get excited. This book is only available by us, only in one language, and I'm not going to tell you anything that it contains. But trust me, you really want it."

I'm really just waiting for the day that GW just starts offering people a $350 mystery box on their site. And even when 90% of the people get upset that the mystery box is empty, 10% will defend GW because they got a $23 model in their mystery box.

Hey, they'd have paid for shipping too!

 Kanluwen wrote:

A price increase on Valkyries?
Are you serious?

Vendettas are the problem, not Valkyries.

Uh. Compared to basically every other flier out there the Valkyrie is cheap as chips. Yes, Vendetta's by far the bigger problem, but the Valkyrie is still an AV12 flyer for the base cost of mere 100 points!

The thing with calls, especially the 100pt ones are, all they are is a multi laser and 1/3rd of a missile launcher that for all intents purposes let's a unit deep strike. Not that massive a deal... A flying taxi.... Especially since all they are carrying is guardsmen. So its not like its a unit of necron immortals or anything, like the night scythe. So not exactly a big worry for the game.

Rocket pods do make things a bit more interesting though. That then turns the unit into an actual gunship. At which point, you do ask the question of whether the unit is priced appropriately as an independent unit. Answer is, well, to be honest... Probably not....


You then have things get significantly screwier with the vendettas pricing, which very few people can even try to excuse in sixth edition

 tvih wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

A price increase on Valkyries?
Are you serious?

Vendettas are the problem, not Valkyries.

Uh. Compared to basically every other flier out there the Valkyrie is cheap as chips. Yes, Vendetta's by far the bigger problem, but the Valkyrie is still an AV12 flyer for the base cost of mere 100 points!

As Compel mentioned, what do you really get for 100 points?

You get a single AV12 flyer with two one shot weapons, a Multilaser, a Searchlight, and the capability to carry Guardsmen (or Veterans/Stormtroopers) into combat.
For 30 points more, you ditch the one shot weapons and Multilaser for 3x twin linked Lascannons.
The Valkyrie by itself would not be really a worthwhile choice. If the Vendetta did not exist, I would be shocked to see a Valkyrie on the field outside of players who like the model.

I'm not scared of the Valkyrie nor do I care either way if it gets hit by a point-nerf bat. However, that's still much better than the Hell Blade a just over 100 points for AV10/10/10, 2 reaper auto cannons, and no transport capability.

But the vendetta, as has been argued ad naseum, is pointed as a fast skimmer when it's actually the king flier right now.

Hell Blade is Forge World; things being point valued correctly is as rare as silliness being unfun.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hell Blade is Forge World; things being point valued correctly is as rare as silliness being unfun.

Fair enough. But the nerf bat is coming. If not in this flier update, in the next IG codex update. The Valkyrie is to the Vendetta as a kick to the jimmies is a nice bourbon on the rocks...

 kronk wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hell Blade is Forge World; things being point valued correctly is as rare as silliness being unfun.

Fair enough. But the nerf bat is coming. If not in this flier update, in the next IG codex update. The Valkyrie is to the Vendetta as a kick to the jimmies is a nice bourbon on the rocks...

No doubt.

I'll give a fair shout right now to Games Workshop:
If you just straight up squat the Vendetta and instead add the Vulture, I'll buy two more so I can have a flight of Vultures and Valkyries both.

 kronk wrote:


But the vendetta, as has been argued ad naseum, is pointed as a fast skimmer when it's actually the king flier right now.

One reason I hope they smack it's points or it's stats. All the skimmer's seem like they should have been hit with at least a point change FAQ the second they were changed to "Flyers". Sort of sad that the Stormraven is apparently being unlocked... but not for either of the Marine chapters I have. Really making me want the Storm Eagle more instead.

As if the Vendetta wasn't crazy good when it was just a skimmer.

KaryudoDS wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Sort of sad that the Stormraven is apparently being unlocked... but not for either of the Marine chapters I have. Really making me want the Storm Eagle more instead.

Although it is really old news, I noticed that in the latest Warhammer world campaign, you can use a Storm Eagle...