SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Hey guys,

Been a while since I checked in. Kind of took a break from things while I waited for Necron codex to be released. I saw that about a month ago it was announced to be "coming soon". Has there been any more talk on a potential release window? I want to continue building my army, but I want to get my hands on the codex and rule updates so I know what units I should focus on.

Probably sometime in march. There's not much information, sadly. GW is keeping it hidden.

Late march is the current best guess, unless we have the order wrong the it could be much sooner.

Id like to bring up the whole 'Gauss is worthless this edition' discussion.

Yes, Gauss was absolutely nuts in 7th. Where a squad of 20 Warriors was better anti-tank than dedicated anti-tank weaponry. However, this simply isnt the case anymore.
If we wanted an 8th ed equivilant of old Gauss, it would be something like 'every wound roll against a vehicle of 6+ ignores enemy armour and does d6 damage to targets with >10 wounds.' Absolutely nuts and no fun to play against.
However, lets compare it to other small arms weapons that other armies have: only Primaris Marines and Rubric Marines have got -ap on their basic weapons and they pay quite heavily for it.
But what is so special about a mear ap -1 on our basic weapons you might ask? I cant explain it to you unfortunately, but it has to do with the fact that lowering your opponents save equals to far more unsaved wounds mathwise.
Some quick mathhammering says that even a fictive BS 2+ bolter or S5 bolter is still inferior to S4 ap-1 vs a T4 3+ save enemy.
This explains why the Immortals Gauss Blaster is mathmatically so much better against all but 5+ save enemies.

Ap -1 on masse is rare folks. Most factions dont any ranged ap get it until you start looking at stuff like Krak Grenades, Autocannons etc.
The BIG problem why Gauss seems so underwhelming, is the fact that plasma spam is so common these days. When pretty much 1/3rd of the enemies arsenal is made up of Plasma, of course ap -1 looks 'weak'.
Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

It’s going to suck that our codex announcement will coincide with April Fools. All the spoiler trolling. :(

Doctoralex wrote:

Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

We don't need gauss to be a plasma equivalent, what we need is for gauss to be dangerous against all target profiles. AP -1 doesn't make us better at hurting vehicles, it just makes us better against MEQ. That's a problem because all of our good anti-vehicle weapons come on very expensive units, so it really waters down our anti-vehicle ability when we are paying twice to three times what it would cost for a devastator with a similar weapon. Since our big weapons come with such a big disadvantage, we need our weapons of the line to pull more weight. Which is what gauss has traditionally done, being able to wound anything and glance on 6s.

The die has already been cast, so this is idle speculation, but out of the suggestions offered, I think the best is to wound rolls of sixes increase the damage value by one. That would make Warriors and Immortals almost twice as dangerous for high toughness and wound models, without really affecting how dangerous they are against other units (since they are generally considered capable against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ). That would also take a lot of heat off of our destroyers since we wouldn't be completely dependent on them for anti-vehicle work. Necrons are a delightfully weird army, but the way our units are configured means we have different requirements than other armies.

Im assuming how you guys are talking it'd mechanically be on a 6 it'd generate an additional mortal wound kind of like how Deathmarks synaptic Disintigrators work now.

If General gauss effectively becomes an ap SynD do you think the SynD would get a buff of some kind since deathmarks are an elite unit? Or do you think the benifits of it being sniper/rf counters the -1 ap?

Lothmar wrote:
Im assuming how you guys are talking it'd mechanically be on a 6 it'd generate an additional mortal wound kind of like how Deathmarks synaptic Disintigrators work now.

If General gauss effectively becomes a -1 ap SynD do you think the SynD would get a buff of some kind since deathmarks are an elite unit? Or do you think the benifits of it being sniper/rf counters the -1 ap?

Being a sniper weapon already gives an advantage.
Teleporting near a character and shooting him when he's surrounded by units is a pretty effective wake up call for the opponent. He now has to direct resources to deal with the sudden threat in his flank or lose a character.

Cth: True but i'll admit i'd be very interested if gauss gets changed to do mortal wounds as well in basically seeing Deathmarks with weapon options to take either flayers or blasters in lieu of the SynD if it remains a 'meh' stat weapon.

Cause honestly sometimes you dont need the sniper effect and have to use your DM's for unit clear to protect high value target etc. Thus if you dont need to pick out models having a decent sized squad of DM's with stronger weapon stats that can just plunk down in response to stuff would make them very~ very~ nasty counter units.

Doctoralex wrote:
Gauss was absolutely nuts in 7th. Where a squad of 20 Warriors was better anti-tank than dedicated anti-tank weaponry.

...
You're probably going to have to back that claim up with math, because it sounds like the type of thing you'd hear from people who don't know anything about Necrons complaining about Necrons.
(no 'Cron general worth their dice back then would have relied on Warriors for anti-AV duty).

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

We don't need gauss to be a plasma equivalent, what we need is for gauss to be dangerous against all target profiles. AP -1 doesn't make us better at hurting vehicles, it just makes us better against MEQ. That's a problem because all of our good anti-vehicle weapons come on very expensive units, so it really waters down our anti-vehicle ability when we are paying twice to three times what it would cost for a devastator with a similar weapon. Since our big weapons come with such a big disadvantage, we need our weapons of the line to pull more weight. Which is what gauss has traditionally done, being able to wound anything and glance on 6s.

The die has already been cast, so this is idle speculation, but out of the suggestions offered, I think the best is to wound rolls of sixes increase the damage value by one. That would make Warriors and Immortals almost twice as dangerous for high toughness and wound models, without really affecting how dangerous they are against other units (since they are generally considered capable against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ). That would also take a lot of heat off of our destroyers since we wouldn't be completely dependent on them for anti-vehicle work. Necrons are a delightfully weird army, but the way our units are configured means we have different requirements than other armies.

While I've never played against Necron's in 7th, I have no idea how people did it. Why even bother bringing vehicles against Necrons when even their most basic infantry could easily destroy it?

I simply cannot imagine that being fun to fight against. And as I recall, Necrons were considered OP and un-fun to play against 7th. I'd rather stay underpowered than non of my friends wanting to play against my favourite army.


But I digress. Yes, Gauss was a unique and flavourful rule back in the day. What armour can stop a weapon that destroys it on a molecular level after all? And while that may be translated to a 'boring' AP-1 on our basic guns or higher AP than most other anti-tank weaponry, it IS unique in that sense. (as i've mentioned in my previous post on how uncommon ap-1 on masse is.)

skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Gauss was absolutely nuts in 7th. Where a squad of 20 Warriors was better anti-tank than dedicated anti-tank weaponry.

...
You're probably going to have to back that claim up with math, because it sounds like the type of thing you'd hear from people who don't know anything about Necrons complaining about Necrons.
(no 'Cron general worth their dice back then would have relied on Warriors for anti-AV duty).

A blob of warriors could put out two or three glances a volley, more if they were in rapid fire range. Most vehicles only had three hull points so blobs could reliably take down a vehicle. It was similar to (but slightly better than) having a meltagun as a special weapon in a tac squad, which had a 50-50 chance of one shotting a vehicle if it got a pen hit. In general though nobody ran vehicles, so we didn't have to bring much to deal with vehicles. Monstrous creatures though, that was the real PITA.

Doctoralex wrote:

While I've never played against Necron's in 7th, I have no idea how people did it. Why even bother bringing vehicles against Necrons when even their most basic infantry could easily destroy it?

I simply cannot imagine that being fun to fight against. And as I recall, Necrons were considered OP and un-fun to play against 7th. I'd rather stay underpowered than non of my friends wanting to play against my favourite army.

But I digress. Yes, Gauss was a unique and flavourful rule back in the day. What armour can stop a weapon that destroys it on a molecular level after all? And while that may be translated to a 'boring' AP-1 on our basic guns or higher AP than most other anti-tank weaponry, it IS unique in that sense. (as i've mentioned in my previous post on how uncommon ap-1 on masse is.)

Well to be fair outside of gladius marines and the occasional wave serpent, nobody fielded vehicles because they were absolute crap. You also seem to have some spotty memory on things like the prevalence of d-weapons and drop pod grav marines that made Necrons look positively light on vehicles. people didn't bitch about necrons because we glanced their vehicles to death, they bitched because we ignored half the shots they threw at us. The search feature is your friend when making wild claims.

AP -1 isn't boring, I play primaris marines and love it on intercessors. The difference being that primaris marines don't depend on intercessors to take on vehicles the way necrons depend on warriors and immortals. We don't have devastators or hell blasters. Anything we have that has a high strength and good ap is north of 40 points per model. Surely you can see how that would be a problem right?

Necrons were the source of complaint in 7th only until the next codex was released. The complaints were more about people being unable to remove models by the handful than us being actually broken.

Doctoralex wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

We don't need gauss to be a plasma equivalent, what we need is for gauss to be dangerous against all target profiles. AP -1 doesn't make us better at hurting vehicles, it just makes us better against MEQ. That's a problem because all of our good anti-vehicle weapons come on very expensive units, so it really waters down our anti-vehicle ability when we are paying twice to three times what it would cost for a devastator with a similar weapon. Since our big weapons come with such a big disadvantage, we need our weapons of the line to pull more weight. Which is what gauss has traditionally done, being able to wound anything and glance on 6s.

The die has already been cast, so this is idle speculation, but out of the suggestions offered, I think the best is to wound rolls of sixes increase the damage value by one. That would make Warriors and Immortals almost twice as dangerous for high toughness and wound models, without really affecting how dangerous they are against other units (since they are generally considered capable against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ). That would also take a lot of heat off of our destroyers since we wouldn't be completely dependent on them for anti-vehicle work. Necrons are a delightfully weird army, but the way our units are configured means we have different requirements than other armies.

While I've never played against Necron's in 7th, I have no idea how people did it. Why even bother bringing vehicles against Necrons when even their most basic infantry could easily destroy it?

I simply cannot imagine that being fun to fight against. And as I recall, Necrons were considered OP and un-fun to play against 7th. I'd rather stay underpowered than non of my friends wanting to play against my favourite army.


But I digress. Yes, Gauss was a unique and flavourful rule back in the day. What armour can stop a weapon that destroys it on a molecular level after all? And while that may be translated to a 'boring' AP-1 on our basic guns or higher AP than most other anti-tank weaponry, it IS unique in that sense. (as i've mentioned in my previous post on how uncommon ap-1 on masse is.)

Please do show how easily destroyed vehicles were with math.

They really weren't. The only point they became mildly dangerous when the vehicle was 150+ points.

Gauss simply needs to become Rending, it would solve the problem.

Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

You know what was more effective at anti-AV duty?
Heavy Destroyers from a D.Cult.
That's why you regularly saw them on tables.

Now?
Neither option is good.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

1/9 shots would glance (2/3 * 1/6), so 20 shots is fairly reliably 2 glances. Destroyers were a little better, but not much, str 5 glanced on 6s against anything av 11 or better (so basically any vehicle), they had less shots but the destroyers got to reroll missed hits and wounds/armor pen rolls, so they edged out warriors just barely. I remember doing the math, and point for point, a squad of warriors was just about as good at killing land raiders as a dev squad with las cannons. We of course were not as good taking on rhinos, which gladius spam brough half a dozen of to each battle. Still Rhinos/razorbacks were mostly speed bumps, with a back armor of 10 even warriors could take them out in CC.

I think I ran heavy destroyers once on a lark, but outside of that they never got table time in 7th ed, they just didn't do anything better than regular destroyers. The reason you ran destroyers is that MEQ were everywhere with gladius spam, and destroyers made a mockery of marines with ap 3 and msm.

Of course that's all window dressing, 7th ed was really about the deathstars, and that got stupid quick.

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

Da W wrote:
Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots.

What?
Anybody deep striking a unit footprint of 21 models in 7th edition with no way to mitigate scatter would soon lean how very foolish a move that would be.

But this has all already been mathhammered out back when it was relevant: Warriors were statistically inferior to other anti-AV options Necrons had at their disposal... back then.
AT THE MOMENT all of our options are inferior.
My biggest hope is that we get our premiere tank killers (Heavy D's) back in a form more fieldable than their current iteration.

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

As I wrote in another thread. Introduce a cheap stratagem that boosts gauss. An additional -1 rend would increase the damage on T7 3+ vehicles from Warriors with about 30% (less for Immortals). A +1 to wound would increase damage by about 50%. The +1 to wound would also give the Gauss cannon a well deserved boost.

Also an improvement/point drop on Destroyers and Vehicles should also help.

There's a rumor (earlier in this thread) that different Dynasties benefit from different weapons. That would make different builds viable if the traits are balanced.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
As I wrote in another thread. Introduce a cheap stratagem that boosts gauss. An additional -1 rend would increase the damage on T7 3+ vehicles from Warriors with about 30% (less for Immortals). A +1 to wound would increase damage by about 50%. The +1 to wound would also give the Gauss cannon a well deserved boost.

Also an improvement/point drop on Destroyers and Vehicles should also help.

There's a rumor (earlier in this thread) that different Dynasties benefit from different weapons. That would make different builds viable if the traits are balanced.

You see and therein lies one of my bugbears for this edition, I feel like we shouldn't require stratagems to be functional. Stratagems should be additional abilities, things that enhance an already capable force. When it becomes a crutch you end up with forces like the blood angels, who are great on a full tank of CP, but once that runs out they are kind of bad.

I wonder if buffing Quantum shielding to 'on a roll equal or lower than the dmg, its ignored' would be too strong or not.

If anything, i hope the Arks get boosted to a 3+ save.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
As I wrote in another thread. Introduce a cheap stratagem that boosts gauss. An additional -1 rend would increase the damage on T7 3+ vehicles from Warriors with about 30% (less for Immortals). A +1 to wound would increase damage by about 50%. The +1 to wound would also give the Gauss cannon a well deserved boost.

Also an improvement/point drop on Destroyers and Vehicles should also help.

There's a rumor (earlier in this thread) that different Dynasties benefit from different weapons. That would make different builds viable if the traits are balanced.

You see and therein lies one of my bugbears for this edition, I feel like we shouldn't require stratagems to be functional. Stratagems should be additional abilities, things that enhance an already capable force. When it becomes a crutch you end up with forces like the blood angels, who are great on a full tank of CP, but once that runs out they are kind of bad.

You might be right, but that's how it works for other factions and is also the most likely way GW is going. I hope I'm proven wrong.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

Da W wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

20 Man squads of anything is just asking for a mishap. Terrain and other units getting in your way is shockingly likely. Especially with the chances that you'll end up scattering off.

Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind for fresh players to see.
"That player pulled off this statistically improbable thing, surely it'll work for me as well!"
Luckily deep strike mishaps are no longer a thing, but there are still plenty of similar traps for newbs to fall into in 8th.
I can only assume it's going to be the same once the codex drops.

Da W wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

You didn't play with enough terrain then.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

You didn't play with LITERALLY any terrain then.

FTFY

Mishaps only occurs if you landed on top of enemy units or impassable terrain. Any other type of terrain incurred a dangerous terrain test, but not a mishap. Only full buildings and impassable terrain would mishap.

I mean, I know we don’t have any other stuff to discuss at the moment, but let’s chill with the pitchforks against a guy who brought up a fun casual tactic from a prior edition.

Like i care. I'm canadian, I know i'm nicer than the rest of the world.

Maybe if they gave Gauss the same rule that the new Tzaangors have it would be better? Y'know, the auto wound on hit rolls of 6+?

It wouldn't change the base stat line of the gun, but it would allow it to be more effective against larger targets and, more importantly, vehicles.

That's simply my opinion though.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Maybe if they gave Gauss the same rule that the new Tzaangors have it would be better? Y'know, the auto wound on hit rolls of 6+?

It wouldn't change the base stat line of the gun, but it would allow it to be more effective against larger targets and, more importantly, vehicles.

That's simply my opinion though.

That's not a bad option, just to set everyone's expectation on the math, under old gauss 1 in 18 shots would get a glance, so for most vehicles it took 54 flayer shots to kill the average 3 HP vehicle. Since they very intentionally made vehicles tougher in this edition, let's set a target at 81 flayer shots to kill a LRBT.

Assuming they don't change the -1 to ap,
Tzangor method
(1/2 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6 * 1/2) = 1/8
So 8 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 96 shots to kill a lrbt. Not too shabby, pretty close to on target for our admittedly arbitrary goal.

the six to wound is damage value +1
(2/3 * 1/6 * 1/2) * 2 = 1/9
so 9 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 108 shots to kill an LRBT, a little higher than we would like.

AP -4 on 6's to hit
(1/2 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6 * 1/6) = 5/72
so 14 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 168 shots to kill a lrbt, better than now but not by much.

6s to hit cause a mortal wound
(1/2 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6) = 5/24
So 4.8 shots to the wound, 12 wounds so 57 shots to kill an LRBT, probably a little to effective, as we'd drop vehicles like we did in 7th ed. Has an added bonus of being good against invul saves, which is probably a deal breaker.

6s to wound cause a mortal wound
(2/3 * 1/6) = 1/9
so 9 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 108 shots to kill an LRBT. Has an added bonus of being good against invul saves, which is probably a deal breaker.

So to get a little nudge on the tzangor solution to get it where we need it to be, how about 6's to hit cause an auto wound in addition to it's normal effects.
(2/3 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6 * 1/2) = 5/36
so a little over 7 shots to a wound. 12 wounds on a LRBT so 84 shots to kill an LRBT. With a stated goal of 81 I think we are in the butter zone. We won't punk vehicles like we did in 7th ed, but we won't be completely reliant on our heavier weapons either.

sieGermans wrote:
I mean, I know we don’t have any other stuff to discuss at the moment, but let’s chill with the pitchforks against a guy who brought up a fun casual tactic from a prior edition.

Nobody here cares about what you do in a casual setting. This is the Tactics section.

My only concern with the tzangor method is if it also out performs Tesla at horde or light infantry removal. Don't have time to do the math right now, but the two are fairly close as it is.

I got a question regarding the rules for reinforcement and the C'tan shard of the Deceiver's Grand Illusion ability:

When you use Grand Illusion, the ability states that you remove D3 + the C'tan from the battlefield and then place them down again, more than 12" away from an enemy unit. This is done before the first turn begins (but more importantly, before the movement phase.)

But, the rules for Reinforcement say that a unit that arrives from reinforcement cannot move in that movement phase. Which makes sense if it happens at the end of the movement phase.

However, does this mean that units that 're-deploy' through the Grand Illusion ability cannot move anymore, despite it being at the start of your movement phase? (assuming you got first turn)

And, if this is true, than I assume this also counts as them having moved for the sake of Heavy weapons?

You can move after using GI, the ability just says you can't charge, because... feth Necrons I guess. I'd be less bitter if the alpha legion did not get the same ability, with the options to use it for up to half their army, and could charge in the first turn.

 Grimgold wrote:
You can move after using GI, the ability just says you can't charge, because... feth Necrons I guess. I'd be less bitter if the alpha legion did not get the same ability, with the options to use it for up to half their army, and could charge in the first turn.

I understand that they cannot charge. But after the reading the rules for Reinforcement, it wonder if they can even move. Grand Illusion says that the unit is removed from the table and then deployed again. Since the unit isn't deployed in a normal way, does it count as reinforcement (and thus it can't move?)

Here's the rules for Reinforcment and Grand Illusion for quick reference:

Reinforcements
Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases.
Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive – their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield – but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.) for the
rest of their turn.

Grand Illusion
At the beginning of the first battle round, but before the first turn begins, you can remove the C'tan Shard of the Deceiver and/or up to D3 other friendly NECRON units from the battlefield, then set them up again more than 12" from any enemy models. If you do so, these units cannot charge in your first turn.

Just like alpha legion it's an alternate deployment, not a reinforcement.

The Deceiver and Alpha Legion deployments are slightly different, but they're the same in the way that they happen before the first turn begins; units that come in by reinforcements can't move or advance the turn they arrive, but turn 1 is after their arrival time so they can move as normal (with the exception of the specific banning on charging, which will hopefully be removed for parity's sake in the codex...).

I did some math regarding advancing MWBD Tesla Immortals, to see if getting them all in range is worth more than not having every model fire, but keeping the Tesla on a 5+:


Advancing to get all models in range
20 shots on 3+, 6+ Tesla= +- 20 hits

moving, 5 models aren't in range
10 shots on 2+, 5+ Tesla= +- 18 hits

Conclusion: if 5 or more models are out of range, it might be better to advance, despite it leading to a worse Tesla roll.

Feel free to correct me if my maths are off!

Think it's 15 hits, not 18

For every 6 hit dice rolled, you'd score 9 hits, 5*2 * 9/6 is 15

Soon it will be march... Sooonn~

*checks hoping to hear news or leaks before going back to work*

Warhammer Community has teased the big releases of March and in 40k it's Codex: T'au (White Dwarf says March 17). So it looks like Necrons will most likely come out later than March. I'm not even going to speculate on dates anymore.

All we can do is wait until they are ready to announce our stuff. However "waiting" is the issue.

I'm currently keeping myself busy by striping old models and stuff I got 2nd hand so I can re-paint my armies for Sautekh, Nihilakh and the other Dynasties mentioned in our Index. I have about 14,000pt of Necrons (so far) and will split 4000pts for each Nihilakh and Sautekh Dynasties while the remaining 6000pts will be shared across the other Dynasties that we have and can use.

They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.

Doctoralex wrote:
They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.

I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,

Grimgold wrote:
I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,

. . . *Creeping paranoia begins to consume my mind*

I keep checking this thread everyday in the hopes that someone found some information somewhere or some leaks I don't know about :(. Waiting is annoying!

Will there be a new thread for the new codex?

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.

I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,

To be fair I think the only thing they ever officially announced regarding the necron codex was when they said that all the old codexes would be finished by the end of the year. Everything else (like the fact that we didn't get any points adjustment in chapter approved) was just wild speculation.

I think we will get the March codices today or tomorrow. So I don't think we'll be in the dark much longer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.

I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,

To be fair I think the only thing they ever officially announced regarding the necron codex was when they said that all the old codexes would be finished by the end of the year. Everything else (like the fact that we didn't get any points adjustment in chapter approved) was just wild speculation.

At the LVO they told us the next three codices. Necrons, Tau, and dark eldar.

 Grimgold wrote:
I think we will get the March codices today or tomorrow. So I don't think we'll be in the dark much longer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.

I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,

To be fair I think the only thing they ever officially announced regarding the necron codex was when they said that all the old codexes would be finished by the end of the year. Everything else (like the fact that we didn't get any points adjustment in chapter approved) was just wild speculation.

At the LVO they told us the next three codices. Necrons, Tau, and dark eldar.

My mistake, you are correct, but they didn't exactly give us an exact order. We might have assumed that Necrons would be the first because they the in the worst shape, but its still possible that Dark Eldar are next after Tau, and provided that they don't release an Ork or Sisters codex prior to the Necron codex, we really haven't been bumped (at least not officially).

Rumor has it necrons were supposed to be the first of the three, but something went wrong.

Lothmar wrote:
Soon it will be march... Sooonn~

*checks hoping to hear news or leaks before going back to work*

It's March! Necron news??!?!?! nope

v0iddrgn wrote:

Lothmar wrote:
Soon it will be march... Sooonn~

*checks hoping to hear news or leaks before going back to work*

It's March! Necron news??!?!?! nope

Next week will be previews for the Tau codex. Week after that might be Necrons, or Drukhari, or neither. I think the absolute latest our codex will be released is April.

Pre order for tau is the 10th, so preorders for whichever codex will be next will be the 24th. We should know which codex that is this sunday at the latest. I expect it to be necrons, but hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.

 Nagerash wrote:
Will there be a new thread for the new codex?

That's the plan.
Hell, we could probably start it once we get some concrete leaks... make that "if" we get some concrete leaks.

 Grimgold wrote:
Pre order for tau is the 10th, so preorders for whichever codex will be next will be the 24th. We should know which codex that is this sunday at the latest. I expect it to be necrons, but hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.

No. This Sunday will be the announcement of the preorders for the 10th. Then on the 11th we find out the preorders for the 17th. We won't find out what goes on preorder for the 24th until the 18th (two weeks from this Sunday).

So when it is released, how quickly can one get a hold of one? I live in sweden so I'm not sure my gw store will get them in stock on release day. Will they be available online?

epaemil wrote:
So when it is released, how quickly can one get a hold of one? I live in sweden so I'm not sure my gw store will get them in stock on release day. Will they be available online?

I am quite sure, there will be an eBook/tablet version, like for everyone else. You can see it on the GW homepage and will be linked to warhammer digital.

 DaBraken wrote:

epaemil wrote:
So when it is released, how quickly can one get a hold of one? I live in sweden so I'm not sure my gw store will get them in stock on release day. Will they be available online?

I am quite sure, there will be an eBook/tablet version, like for everyone else. You can see it on the GW homepage and will be linked to warhammer digital.

So if I buy eBook version can I still get the physical one or do I have to buy both :/ would rather only have the book but I need the codex asap

So I know the obvious answer will be 'Wait for the Codex' but do you guys have any id what Necrons can do vs a Leviathan Dreadnought that comes in with a droppod and then getting a bunch of psychic buffs?
So far it kind of seems like an unstoppable one-man army.

Doctoralex wrote:
do you guys have any id what Necrons can do vs a Leviathan Dreadnought that comes in with a droppod and then getting a bunch of psychic buffs?

You shake your opponent's hand and congratulate him on his superior tactical prowess.

 skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
do you guys have any id what Necrons can do vs a Leviathan Dreadnought that comes in with a droppod and then getting a bunch of psychic buffs?

You shake your opponent's hand and congratulate him on his superior tactical prowess.

Yeah...we don't really have the tools for that. Try shooting it with heavy destroyers, I guess?
I really wish we had a way to stop buffs. Deny the Witch only works on offensive spells, iirc, which is dumb. It should work on everything. WHFB had it right.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
do you guys have any id what Necrons can do vs a Leviathan Dreadnought that comes in with a droppod and then getting a bunch of psychic buffs?

You shake your opponent's hand and congratulate him on his superior tactical prowess.

Yeah...we don't really have the tools for that. Try shooting it with heavy destroyers, I guess?
I really wish we had a way to stop buffs. Deny the Witch only works on offensive spells, iirc, which is dumb. It should work on everything. WHFB had it right.

Deny the Witch works on any spell, so long as the unit Denying is within 24" of the casting Psyker.

That being said, our only way to Deny is Spyders with Gloom Prisms... Which are really easy to snipe out.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
do you guys have any id what Necrons can do vs a Leviathan Dreadnought that comes in with a droppod and then getting a bunch of psychic buffs?

You shake your opponent's hand and congratulate him on his superior tactical prowess.

Yeah...we don't really have the tools for that. Try shooting it with heavy destroyers, I guess?
I really wish we had a way to stop buffs. Deny the Witch only works on offensive spells, iirc, which is dumb. It should work on everything. WHFB had it right.

Deny the Witch works on any spell, so long as the unit Denying is within 24" of the casting Psyker.

That being said, our only way to Deny is Spyders with Gloom Prisms... Which are really easy to snipe out.

Does it? Could have sworn the gloom prism specifies that it only works when a necron unit has been targeted.
Edit : Huh, what do you know, it can work on any spell. Must have been thinking of another edition again.

Ya I believe it was 6th where you could only deny offensive spells being cast onto your units.

Another week in the can. Edging closer to codex but can't see the end of the tunnel...

v0iddrgn wrote:
Another week in the can. Edging closer to codex but can't see the end of the tunnel...

No point counting the weeks until there's at least two weeks of Tau releases out of the way

Looks like Necrons Vs Ad mech is definitely a thing

Notice the "Necron Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak".

New wargear i guess.

I really hope i can continue to use my old crypteks without missing a lot of new visible wargear options...

I mean, Necrons are getting their own side-game (though starring Space Marines, but 'crons are the main theme/enemy in it) and now a starter box?

Perhaps the rumours of major Necron changes in the codex are true....

Doctoralex wrote:
I mean, Necrons are getting their own side-game (though starring Space Marines, but 'crons are the main theme/enemy in it) and now a starter box?

Perhaps the rumours of major Necron changes in the codex are true....

The game with Space Marines doesn't include any Necron Models though. It is literally a Space Marine games with space Marine models vs cardboard disk Necrons. You can use Necron models to play it but you need to own them to use them.

The forgebane box includes the new Cryptek, 5 Immortals, 5 Lychguard and 3 Wraiths. For the Ad mech. It comes with a tech-priest, 10ad mech rangers, 2 new mini Knights. I think it's roughly 500-600pts for each side including the new knight(s).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/05/forgebane-coming-soongw-homepage-post-1/

Some more detail on the Canoptek Cloak:

The Necron Cryptek is the first to be made of plastic and features a nifty new piece of wargear that allows them to skim above the battlefield and repair your units.

I'm guessing its a mix between a 'Disk of Tzeensch'-like upgrade (12" move + Fly) and he can heal D3 wounds on a canoptek unit.

I can see the Cryptek have 12" movement with an ability to move 6" when advancing instead of rolling a D6. Sounds like it will either repair Reanimation units or Vehicles. I think it is also safe to say that Necrons will be the next codex after Tau.

 Odrankt wrote:
Sounds like it will either repair Reanimation units or Vehicles.

Well considering it is called a Canoptek Cloak, I think it is more likely that he can repair Canpotek units. Wraiths, Scarabs and Spyders all have 3-4 wounds as well, making it even more likely.

Repairing vehicles is already covered by the Spyder as well.

Doctoralex wrote:

 Odrankt wrote:
Sounds like it will either repair Reanimation units or Vehicles.

Well considering it is called a Canoptek Cloak, I think it is more likely that he can repair Canpotek units. Wraiths, Scarabs and Spyders all have 3-4 wounds as well, making it even more likely.

Repairing vehicles is already covered by the Spyder as well.

didn't realise the cloak was named. Still interesting though. If it does repair D3 like you said then Wraiths and Acanthrites will be the best units for it to support. Unless, it can buff every Canoptek unit differently.

It's also going to be a lord of war as claimed by the article. Hope it was better tricks than just repair and good movement up its sleeves.

Oberron wrote:
It's also going to be a lord of war as claimed by the article. Hope it was better tricks than just repair and good movement up its sleeves.

The article didn't claim that. Just that it was a wargear option.
How would a piece of equipment be a Lord of War? That doesn't make sense.

It said the Knights were LoWs, not the Cryptek.

The news and pics of this Necron, Ad Mech set has renewed my excitement for the upcoming book. Love the new model and can't wait to get more leaks!

Requizen wrote:
It said the Knights were LoWs, not the Cryptek.

Yeah I misread it. That makes me feel a lot better about it now.

Hope they change the range from 3 " to 6" for the auras like in every other army.

Also wonder if there will be extra bits from death marks and preats come with the box, if so a box of warriors and a little modification gives you a lot of options.

Hmm, might be able to convince my friend who plays admech to go in on this with me. Almost tempted to ask him 'if I buy will you build?' if only cause im lazy. *chuckle*

Well, I guess I need to go ahead and get two of that box and a Start Collecting. So much for saving money this year.

You know, funny thing is that I've been thinking of making an ad mech for my human faction. So far I have 2 xenos armies but no humans.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, funny thing is that I've been thinking of making an ad mech for my human faction. So far I have 2 xenos armies but no humans.

...and you still wouldn’t.

sieGermans wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, funny thing is that I've been thinking of making an ad mech for my human faction. So far I have 2 xenos armies but no humans.

...and you still wouldn’t.

What do you mean? 10% human with a mostly human brain is still human
Perhaps Imperium would have been more accurate.

So while I wouldn't start planning out lists yet, I might consider looking at how the new AoS Death book deals with Resurrection as an example of how Necron Renanimation might work in the new Codex.

Before the Nagash book, most Death units had a way to bring models back, usually a Banner, that would return 1/d3/d6 wounds/models to the unit (based on how elite or horde). Much like Reanimation Protocols, but more consistent.

The new book removed all those rules, and made it so most Heroes (aka Characters) have a special rule to return models to units. This varies on a Hero to Hero basis - Big Bad Nagash can return d3 models to up to 5 different units on the table, a little Necromancer can only resurrect 2 units that are 6" away from him, etc. This can be stacked, so three Heroes can heal the same unit to take it from near-death to full strength. They also have markers they can place on the table as Graveyards that have a similar effect.

If this looks familiar, it's because it's basically how Ghost Arks work (though army-wide instead of just Warriors).

I believe our HQs are going to gain similar abilities. Perhaps the Lord and Cryptek will be able to return d3 wounds worth of models to two units, the Overlord up to 3 units, and Named Characters potentially more. Res Orbs might boost it to a flat 3 or d6 for one turn. Ghost Ark likely remaining d6, but only for Warriors.

Now, that's not guaranteed, but I think it's not entirely unlikely considering how the two games have tested rules in one, only to move over well-received rules to the other. Just an observation.

Requizen wrote:
So while I wouldn't start planning out lists yet, I might consider looking at how the new AoS Death book deals with Resurrection as an example of how Necron Renanimation might work in the new Codex.

Before the Nagash book, most Death units had a way to bring models back, usually a Banner, that would return 1/d3/d6 wounds/models to the unit (based on how elite or horde). Much like Reanimation Protocols, but more consistent.

The new book removed all those rules, and made it so most Heroes (aka Characters) have a special rule to return models to units. This varies on a Hero to Hero basis - Big Bad Nagash can return d3 models to up to 5 different units on the table, a little Necromancer can only resurrect 2 units that are 6" away from him, etc. This can be stacked, so three Heroes can heal the same unit to take it from near-death to full strength. They also have markers they can place on the table as Graveyards that have a similar effect.

If this looks familiar, it's because it's basically how Ghost Arks work (though army-wide instead of just Warriors).

I believe our HQs are going to gain similar abilities. Perhaps the Lord and Cryptek will be able to return d3 wounds worth of models to two units, the Overlord up to 3 units, and Named Characters potentially more. Res Orbs might boost it to a flat 3 or d6 for one turn. Ghost Ark likely remaining d6, but only for Warriors.

Now, that's not guaranteed, but I think it's not entirely unlikely considering how the two games have tested rules in one, only to move over well-received rules to the other. Just an observation.

The Flesh eater courts already did that, and it worked pretty well for them so it's not surprising to see the rest of death get that rule. It gave you a way to reliably get units back, and a manner in which it can be bypassed (kill the heroes). However I'm not confident it would work so well for necrons, for one killing characters outside of CC takes a veto proof act of congress, where as it's not so bad in AoS. Second it doesn't help with wiped out units, which is the catch 22 of current RP.

I have a feeling we're not getting any more new units/models in the codex, apart from that Canop-Cryptek (otherwise they probably would have included it in the box).

It's very unlikely that we get new units. Necrons do have plenty of units to chose from, if only GW makes a good internal balance in the codex, then we will have plenty to choose from.

There seems to be a push for Necrons, first "major changes" in the codex, then Necron cardboard tokens and now a collecting box. I can't belive I'm this excited for a Space marine game (well, not really) and a new Cryptek (yes, really).

When thinking about it, it's a bad omen for the codex. Are we sure that Matt Ward isn't writing the fluff?

So I have a tactics question; presuming the rules for Anrakyr the Traveler don't change too much in the Codex this is and will remain relevant.

I want to take Anrakyr the Traveler and use him to beef up the close combat aspect of my army by giving them +1 attack. Should Anrakyr give +1 attack to my 10 Lychguard with Warscythes or my 10 Triarch Praetorians with Particle Casters and Voidblades?

As per the Errata, each Praetorian model now makes three attacks with the Voidblade and pairing them with The Traveler bumps that to four attacks. Anrakyr's version of My Will Be Done doesn't use the <DYNASTY> codeword, so I can use MWBD on Praetorians too.

So the question is, would I rather have:

30 Strength 7, AP-4 Damage 2 attacks, hitting on 2's.

40 Strength 5, AP-3, Damage 1 attacks hitting on 2's, with the Particle Caster pistol shots on the side?

I think the Lychguard will obviously do better big targets with a 3+ save or worse. While the Praetorians will do better against hordes and units with an Invulnerable save.

There's a big issue to trying to stick Anrakyr with Praets:
How's he going to keep up with them?

 skoffs wrote:
There's a big issue to trying to stick Anrakyr with Praets:
How's he going to keep up with them?

This will depend largely on what you're up against.

Daemons, cc tyranids, and deathguard will come to you, and anrakyr should be within buffing distance when he needs to.

Otherwise if you're the hunter and not the huntee , you could veil him up with another HQ or in s gjort ark, but thats getting abit pricey and maybe I

For damage output you should try out dice-hammer.com that I link too in my signature. Click Ranged to toggle to Melee and input the stats. It supports both MWBD and +1 A with the voidblade . But it can be a tad confusing with all the knobs and levers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I quoted the wrong message but you get the idea


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit 2 : it also supports shooting pistols in the shooting phase ( adds it to the Melee damage, optional of course)

 skoffs wrote:
There's a big issue to trying to stick Anrakyr with Praets:
How's he going to keep up with them?

I'd thought about that. I suppose it depends on the situation, he could be advanced alongside them which is risky, the Praetorians could not use their full movement range which is somewhat wasteful, or I could Veil of Darkness Anrakyr in with another unit in tow, but then the question remains, why not just put him with the Lychguard? I guess I just like the idea of Praetorians with 4 attacks hitting on 2's but achieving that might involve risk or compromise.

I'm so confused as to why they've been so quiet about the Necrons codex. I feel like all of the other codexes were hyped up for weeks before release and got weekly updates with new rules teasers. We're getting nothing for Necrons. Just baffles me, especially with this new direction GW seems to be going towards and making Necrons a central bad guy in upcoming sets.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
I'm so confused as to why they've been so quiet about the Necrons codex. I feel like all of the other codexes were hyped up for weeks before release and got weekly updates with new rules teasers. We're getting nothing for Necrons. Just baffles me, especially with this new direction GW seems to be going towards and making Necrons a central bad guy in upcoming sets.

Because they're advertising Tau now. It makes no sense to go "yeah, those Tau guys are cool and they have a codex coming up...but check out those murderbots, they are awesome!"
Its just not logical to go into detail about another product line when you are trying to sell one, from a marketing perspective.

 Grimgold wrote:


The Flesh eater courts already did that, and it worked pretty well for them so it's not surprising to see the rest of death get that rule. It gave you a way to reliably get units back, and a manner in which it can be bypassed (kill the heroes). However I'm not confident it would work so well for necrons, for one killing characters outside of CC takes a veto proof act of congress, where as it's not so bad in AoS. Second it doesn't help with wiped out units, which is the catch 22 of current RP.

Yeah, like I said I don't think it's 100% going to happen, but I don't think it's unlikely either. Harder to kill Characters would offset the lack of Gravesites that Death get. As for wiped units, well that'll always be a downside but we'll see what points look like and other defensive buffs. If there's a "always counts as being in Cover" or "outside of 12 inches -1 to hit" Dynasty, that alone would help keep units from getting wiped. I'm fairly certain we'll also see some point decreases.

So how busted would it be if Necrons never had to roll morale checks? It seems weird for them to flee since they're mostly braindead.

Failing moral isn't just 'run away from fear', it can be seen as a tactical retreat, a misunderstanding of orders, or something similar. I don't see us just ignoring moral, though I could see a dynasty with that ability, or a new aura ability, or something similar. But not just flat -always ignore-.

Azuza001 wrote:
Failing moral isn't just 'run away from fear', it can be seen as a tactical retreat, a misunderstanding of orders, or something similar. I don't see us just ignoring moral, though I could see a dynasty with that ability, or a new aura ability, or something similar. But not just flat -always ignore-.

Maybe something like "half the models that should flee from the failed morale" ?

I can easily see one Necron Dynasty getting the same rules as Iyanden, i.e. can only ever loose 1 model from failed morale.

Azuza001 wrote:
Failing moral isn't just 'run away from fear', it can be seen as a tactical retreat, a misunderstanding of orders, or something similar. I don't see us just ignoring moral, though I could see a dynasty with that ability, or a new aura ability, or something similar. But not just flat -always ignore-.

Ive seen that argument lots of times and it still isn't true, otherwise nothing would be immune as EVERYTHING can do that, and tactical retreats are by choice, not a failiure. Morale IS just running away, which is why our rank and file at least should be immune.

1) They are mindless automatons, so lack the ability to feel fear.
2) Even if they could they are immortal and self repairing.

In short by what ever way you try to justify immunity to morale, nothing has a better claim to it than Necrons, and if they aren't for some reason such as it also includes tactical retreat (even though tactical means by decision, which a failed dice isn't) then nothing else should be for the same reason.

Yeah I don't personally buy the "tactical retreat" clause for a failed morale check either. They aren't autonomous enough for that, any tactical withdrawal would have to be at the command of a Lord or Overlord.

I suppose it's just a question of balance. Would it be broken if a unit of 20 warriors could be reduced to a single model and be capable of resurrecting all 19 without any morale checks? Arguably it would.

However I think it could be implemented by giving Necron Lords an aura within which Necron units cannot fail morale checks. It makes more sense and gives Necron lords a useful place on the battlefield besides "cheap HQ choice"

epaemil wrote:
So how busted would it be if Necrons never had to roll morale checks? It seems weird for them to flee since they're mostly braindead.

Not fleeing, phasing out. Its a 3rd ed necron thing.
Necrons were never fearless across the board. Even back then.

Personally I don't want to see a return of the "armies effectively immune to morale" that plagued earlier editions. It's bad enough that small squads effectively become immune to morale since you need to kill more models than are in the unit to give them a chance of failing the check.

I don't see what the problem there is. I mean, if you killed more models than what are in the squad, does it matter if they die from morale?
This idea that MSU counters morale, so MSU is optimal perplexes me because of that. MSU don't take morale. So what? Still dead.

And besides, with LD10 necrons are already pretty hard to kill with morale. You have to kill at least 5 necrons in a unit in a single turn in order to get a morale kill.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't see what the problem there is. I mean, if you killed more models than what are in the squad, does it matter if they die from morale?
This idea that MSU counters morale, so MSU is optimal perplexes me because of that. MSU don't take morale. So what? Still dead.

And besides, with LD10 necrons are already pretty hard to kill with morale. You have to kill at least 5 necrons in a unit in a single turn in order to get a morale kill.

Well the problem right now is:

1: blob of 20 Warriors gets alpha-striked and hosed down, maybe 3-2 models remain.

2: now have to use Insane Courage strategem if i want to give them a chance of reanimating next turn.

Meanwhile, other horde races have Mob Rule/Breakin headz, Synapse etc. The only one who doesnt get much morale-wise are Chaos Deamons.

Id like to see the nessecity of Insane Courage be (partially) replaced by a Dynasty trait or Lord.

Doctoralex wrote:


Meanwhile, other horde races have Mob Rule/Breakin headz, Synapse etc. The only one who doesnt get much morale-wise are Chaos Deamons.

Necrons are not a "horde race", so I don't really see how this matters.

If a Khorne Berzerker or a Scarab Occult Terminator can "flee", then so can a Necron Warrior.

Necrons are already the most resilient army when it comes to morale (out of those few who are not immune ofc) due to armywide Ld10.
5 man units of Deathmarks/Lychguard/Immortals etc. are all essentially immune to morale.

 MinscS2 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Meanwhile, other horde races have Mob Rule/Breakin headz, Synapse etc. The only one who doesnt get much morale-wise are Chaos Deamons.

Necrons are not a "horde race", so I don't really see how this matters.

If a Khorne Berzerker or a Scarab Occult Terminator can "flee", then so can a Necron Warrior.

Necrons are already the most resilient army when it comes to morale (out of those few who are not immune ofc) due to armywide Ld10.
5 man units of Deathmarks/Lychguard/Immortals etc. are all essentially immune to morale.

So euhm.... 2x 20 Warriors, buffed by Illuminor Szeras and backed up by a Ghost Ark is not a horde army?

or 2x 20 Flayed ones, deep striking in while a Cryptek uses Veil of Darkness to get Imothek the Stormlord/Arankyr the Traveller close to them? Also not a horde army?


I think Necrons can be played as both an elite and a horde army. Horde is simply not viable right now since a blob can easily take +15 casualties. And as I mentioned before, other horde armies have ways of negating morale in such a situation while 'Crons don't. On top of that, loses from morale hurt double, since you can't reanimate those models anymore.

Hordearmy implies something about price too, I don't think Flayed Ones qualify with their point price tag, even if you spend all your points to buy a bunch of them. Even warriors at 12pt are probably border line (though I don't know what Genestealers/Gaunts/Boyz/daemon things/ costs)

Doctoralex wrote:

So euhm.... 2x 20 Warriors, buffed by Illuminor Szeras and backed up by a Ghost Ark is not a horde army?

or 2x 20 Flayed ones, deep striking in while a Cryptek uses Veil of Darkness to get Imothek the Stormlord/Arankyr the Traveller close to them? Also not a horde army?

40 models is not even close to a horde, no.

Doctoralex wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Meanwhile, other horde races have Mob Rule/Breakin headz, Synapse etc. The only one who doesnt get much morale-wise are Chaos Deamons.

Necrons are not a "horde race", so I don't really see how this matters.

If a Khorne Berzerker or a Scarab Occult Terminator can "flee", then so can a Necron Warrior.

Necrons are already the most resilient army when it comes to morale (out of those few who are not immune ofc) due to armywide Ld10.
5 man units of Deathmarks/Lychguard/Immortals etc. are all essentially immune to morale.

So euhm.... 2x 20 Warriors, buffed by Illuminor Szeras and backed up by a Ghost Ark is not a horde army?

.

No. Come back when its a 100 models under 1k points. Something Orks, IG and nids can do no problem with ~400+ points left to spare.

Hordes are really about having low points cost per model. You could field a horde of terminators if you were having a big enough battle... given our cheapest troop is 12 points, I don't think that counts as horde (rule of thumb maybe <8ppm troops for a real horde).

If I had a 20-30 Warrior squad and 2-3 models remain at the end of the enemys turn I would be happy to pay for Insane Bravery as I have defeated their attempt to destroy the unit and can look forward to a great RP session (is possible even I would throw in the Orb) undoing all their efforts.

Looking at all the treats Tau are getting, I think we can sit back and enjoy when our codex drops

https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/824guz/40k_boxed_set_with_necrons/dv7u2p5/

- Cryptek has fly, movement 10”, no Chronometron but instead heals for d3
- Amazing relics
- 2 extremely good stratagems
- 6 usable stratagems
- Doomsday Ark is gonna have d6 shots
- Possibility of the Lychguard with shields getting a 3++
- As for the Monolith, all I’ve heard is that all of our stuff is more usable

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/824guz/40k_boxed_set_with_necrons/dv7u2p5/

Spoiler:

- Cryptek has fly, movement 10”, no Chronometron but instead heals for d3
- Amazing relics
- 2 extremely good stratagems
- 6 usable stratagems
- Doomsday Ark is gonna have d6 shots
- Possibility of the Lychguard with shields getting a 3++
- As for the Monolith, all I’ve heard is that all of our stuff is more usable

Random comments of "I know someone who has the codex" from an unknown reddit user are not exactly something I'd put a lot of stock in.

@ Skoff - ditto.

But if it is reliable~....I hope from what I just read from moon there that its a flying variant on cryptek and there's still a ground variant that can take a chronometron.

If our army loses the chrono entirely i'll be very sad.

If it's just restricted to certain named characters I might still be able to work with that.

The "leaks" don't seem too out of line from changes we might expect, but I'm with skoffs on this one. Grain of salt.


Also, someone needs to fire their web designer for using text on that background. Who can even read that?

Those aren't leaks. Leaks have something to back themselves up with.
We're still in unsubstantiated rumor town.

I'm really in the middle right now - do not know what do build next until codex

I've been watching the Tau previews, and nothing they have seems too over the top. Like the riptide looks good, but you probably won't be using more than 1 or 2 because the stratagem for them is pretty clutch. Cutting back on Commander spam, means that even with the rest of the codex, commanders are one of the only units worth spamming. They are also getting points reductions as opposed to an overhaul of their mechanics like marker lights.

My thought is the Tau Codex will will be greeted with a resounding meh from the competitive scene. They will do fine in casual metas but it will be rare to see them monolist within the top few tables in big GTs. Haters will make it sound like the sky is falling.

I mention this because we are not going the route of the tau, they stated we are in for significant changes, not point reductions and tweaks here and there. So I wouldn't read too much into the tau release for what we can look forward to.

 skoffs wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/824guz/40k_boxed_set_with_necrons/dv7u2p5/

Spoiler:

- Cryptek has fly, movement 10”, no Chronometron but instead heals for d3
- Amazing relics
- 2 extremely good stratagems
- 6 usable stratagems
- Doomsday Ark is gonna have d6 shots
- Possibility of the Lychguard with shields getting a 3++
- As for the Monolith, all I’ve heard is that all of our stuff is more usable

Random comments of "I know someone who has the codex" from an unknown reddit user are not exactly something I'd put a lot of stock in.

I can verify the rumors, they're taken from a discord channel that I frequent. We weren't supposed to go spreading it around but I guess the cat's out of the bag.

The one thing I'm not sure on is the 3++, don't remember that ever being mentioned.

If the cat's out of the bag it's time to dish!

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
If the cat's out of the bag it's time to dish!

Our leaker has been pretty cagey about stuff, more just revealing what he thinks is good in the codex rather than what exactly stuff in the codex does. Other than what was already in that reddit post the only other thing I can say is that tomb blades are supposed to be REALLY good.

I wonder how the C'tan have fared. 4th times the charm to get them right I hope.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

epaemil wrote:
So how busted would it be if Necrons never had to roll morale checks? It seems weird for them to flee since they're mostly braindead.

Not fleeing, phasing out. Its a 3rd ed necron thing.
Necrons were never fearless across the board. Even back then.

I think the army-wide phase out works much better than a few here and there run away because their friends were shot up (but could come back shortly). Some higher-ranked individual looks at the battle, says 'no, not going well', and then the army evaporates. But up to that point, they are immune. It would be nice, fitting, and different from the other armies.

I'm really interested in monolith changes. I don't have one and thinking about buying but lack of QS is very sucks...

The monolith will live and die by it's eternity gate, if that's useful, the monolith is useful, if it isn't the monolith better be a bargain or else it will continue collecting dust. It can't stay land raider expensive unless it's a lynchpin unit, because there will always be better ways to spend those points.

I want usable Lychguard, and a Monolith worth taking. I haven't used the poor thing in ages.
Them getting a 3++ would be fantastic. About time for their price.

 Grimgold wrote:
they stated we are in for significant changes, not point reductions and tweaks here and there.

Who is this "they"?
Like, was it something official I'm just not remembering?

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I can verify the rumors, they're taken from a discord channel that I frequent.

But is that really something anyone can verify without showing proof of it?
I mean, I can go on twitch and say I have an advanced version of the Ork codex, but unless I can back it up with proof anything I say should just be regarded as unsubstantiated rumor.

hvg3akaek wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

epaemil wrote:
So how busted would it be if Necrons never had to roll morale checks? It seems weird for them to flee since they're mostly braindead.

Not fleeing, phasing out. Its a 3rd ed necron thing.
Necrons were never fearless across the board. Even back then.

I think the army-wide phase out works much better than a few here and there run away because their friends were shot up (but could come back shortly). Some higher-ranked individual looks at the battle, says 'no, not going well', and then the army evaporates. But up to that point, they are immune. It would be nice, fitting, and different from the other armies.

Oh hell no. I played that edition, and it SUCKS when your opponent basically gets a 25% handicap to table you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:
The monolith will live and die by it's eternity gate, if that's useful, the monolith is useful, if it isn't the monolith better be a bargain or else it will continue collecting dust. It can't stay land raider expensive unless it's a lynchpin unit, because there will always be better ways to spend those points.

The monolith's problem has always been trying to make it do too many things, edition after edition. By the time the points are worked out, it's simply too expensive for any of those things.

Tis the season for wild speculation, so I'd say,
As far as ways to make the Monolith useful, perhaps a strategem where you can land one on an enemy unit (unit takes D6 mw).

Well i still see one problem. Even if we get the most amazing stratagems in the world , we still have nearly no CP to spent and our cheapest troop is 12ppm

As for the Mono its hard , right now hes not even remotely playable , i dont even know if i would him play if he was half the price since his output is terrible and the gate rule is useless as hell

Yeah there's a few issues I have with the Monolith. If fixed, I'd pick one up.

Right now it's too expensive.
It should go to Toughness 10 and have a 2+ Save or it should get an Invuln Save/Quantum Shielding/both
Right now it can only deepstrike 12" away from enemy units. Improve that to 9"
It should be able to suck in your friendly units and return them to the Tomb World, so they can redeploy next turn.
The Portal of Exile should be more of a threat. Perhaps you roll for it if enemies start or finish a charge within 3" of the model.

The firepower of it is not the main issue, but if I had to suggest a reasonable improvement it would be to either improve the AP on the Particle Whip from -2 to -3 or have it do 3 Damage Flat, not D3.

Balance is the problem.
If they make it too overpowered people will complain.
If they make it too underpowered people will complain.
But I do agree that the most iconic Necron unit should definitely be something you WANT to field.

Indeed, balance is an issue. With certain tweaks the Monolith could be a pretty good unit if the price is right. But like Skoffs said. If it's too good people will complain and if it stays the same or only gets a slight boost people will complain

If I may Skoffs, what would you consider as a "balanced" Monolith? I think a 2+ save with a 6 FnP rather then QS would work quite well for the Monolith but that's just me. I also think it's Gauss weapons should have a 1-2 CP Stratgem to change their typing from Heavy 3 to Rapid fire 3. While it would seem a bit much we would be spending valuable CPs to make it happen which could make my suggestion "balanced".

Oh for sure. It needs to be balanced so I'm not going crazy with my expectations for changes to it. Currently it's lacking in firepower, survivability or utility. And it costs about the same as Robute Gulliman.

Personally one thing that will always put me off buying one is actually figuring out how to transport it lol

Well the Codex has to fix a lot of things , more than for eldar or nids , since we were by far worse in the only index comparisson.
Maybe even THE worst index with not even a single viable build.

The Mono is one thing , the lack of overall good options is another one i think.

dapperbandit wrote:
Oh for sure. It needs to be balanced so I'm not going crazy with my expectations for changes to it. Currently it's lacking in firepower, survivability or utility. And it costs about the same as Robute Gulliman.

Personally one thing that will always put me off buying one is actually figuring out how to transport it lol

It only really lacks in firepower based on it's points cost being prohibitive. The fact that the Particle Whip is straight 6 shots is actually something of boost over other similar units in the indexes, but with codex releases that high points cost has put the Monolith in a lower tier for sure. A major points reduction should be considered critical to get these iconic models back on the table but I'm also of the mindset that only a slight boost is needed beyond that to make this a worthwhile unit.

After seeing the Tau leaks, I sure hope we get something with a little more sizzle than that. Not that it seems to bad, it's just middling.

Given the recent Regimental Standard comments about Dark Stone etc. dampening/enhancing psychic energy, I’m guessing that could feature prominently in our new Codex.

Yeah, the strategems and relics from the Tau codex leak seem to play to both their Strengths and their Weaknesses while complying with the fluff.

So I expect that there will be at least one option to expand our ability to deny psychic powers.

Another one of our weaknesses is that it's harder for Necrons to get a lot of CP. We've seen in other Codexes the opportunity for armies to gain back CP. I can imagine characters like Imhotekh the "Hyperlogical Strategist" or Nemesor Zahndrekh getting the ability to regain CP or start with more.

One of my local GW managers was saying necrons *should* have a codex this month, supposedly right after Tau. To that end, I've started building them up as my last army, so that I have all 3 major factions covered.

 Bendhotep wrote:
One of my local GW managers was saying necrons *should* have a codex this month, supposedly right after Tau. To that end, I've started building them up as my last army, so that I have all 3 major factions covered.

Makes sense. They did just reveal Forgebane.

Tau go for preorder tomorrow. We haven't heard anything about preorders yet, but there are two preorder windows (17th or 24th) to get a Codex "this month". We'll know this Sunday if we're getting it sooner or later.

My store manager said he didn't expect them this month since there was 0 preview in the White dwarf. And if it's the end of this month some preview is to be expected.

Only tau for march would be odd given the pace they have been keeping.

True, but a reveal this sunday wouldn't make sense, then Necrons would have been in march's White Dwarf.

I'd say probably the next week after, at most the last week of march.


In other news; some more small goodies from our 'I know a guy with da codex' from Reddit:

Ressurection Orb: down 7 points.

Flayed ones: possibly down 4 points per model.

Named characters: Only major changes for Imotekh, though possibly point reduction for some others as well.

Flayed Ones need a point drop. I don't believe the rumors but would not be overly surprised.

 Grimgold wrote:
Only tau for march would be odd given the pace they have been keeping.

That said GW has those new hinted Sea-elves as another option to throw out; and if that came out it would likely be at least a two week release. A release like that could push Necrons to pre-release just near the end of the month with a release into the first week of next

Doctoralex wrote:
True, but a reveal this sunday wouldn't make sense, then Necrons would have been in march's White Dwarf.

I'd say probably the next week after, at most the last week of march.


In other news; some more small goodies from our 'I know a guy with da codex' from Reddit:

Ressurection Orb: down 7 points.

Flayed ones: possibly down 4 points per model.

Named characters: Only major changes for Imotekh, though possibly point reduction for some others as well.

No major changes for characters, that's weird because crypteks are getting changes, and at least two of the named characters are crypteks. How crap our special characters are is a big problem for necrons, Anrakyr is decent, but rest range form unremarkable to bad.

 Nagerash wrote:
My store manager said he didn't expect them this month since there was 0 preview in the White dwarf. And if it's the end of this month some preview is to be expected.

The current run of White Dwarf only covers the back half of the previous month and the first half of the current month. Everything this month after Codex T'au is released next week will be covered in April's White Dwarf.

 Overread wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Only tau for march would be odd given the pace they have been keeping.

That said GW has those new hinted Sea-elves as another option to throw out; and if that came out it would likely be at least a two week release. A release like that could push Necrons to pre-release just near the end of the month with a release into the first week of next

We usually see more than one week of marketing for new faction, and they typically like to announce those at large events. I wouldn't expect to see the Idoneth for a while yet.

There's something up in News Rumours you should really see...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1410/748328.page#9871183

 Ghaz wrote:
There's something up in News Rumours you should really see...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1410/748328.page#9871183

Hm, very interesting. Not one that really stands out as 'the best' to me thus far.

Sautekh is a bit of a mixed bag. You will pretty much only advance if not all your models are in range to fire. Though will those extra models firing justify the -1 to hit cause you advanced?
Ignoring heavy weapons will so far only affect the Stalker and the DDA firing low-powered.

Novokh is obviously the melee-focused one. Will work amazing if we get more reliable ways to make turn 1 charges.

I can't really see Nihilakh working, 'Crons simply don't have the range like IG to be a static shooting army.

Nephrekh Looks like some amazing mobility, especially for stuff like swarms of Scarabs and C'tan Shards. Too bad the 'phase through' only works if you advance. No hordes of Necrons phasing through walls charging....
It really depends on the amount of terrain you play and how quickly you need to close the gap.

And lastly, Mephrit will probably be my favourite. Half-range is where Necron's are best. And ap-2 on a basic Gauss Flayer just sounds hilarious.
On top of that, it will work great on Tomb Blades, the fliers and aggressive Anh. Barges. It could also come on handy on Wraiths /w Particle Casters.
Oeh, and Deathmarks! Those boys are pretty much always n half-range when they do their thing.

None of them are overpowered, but I think all of them other than Nihilakh are quite good. A good first showing for the codex, in my view.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
None of them are overpowered, but I think all of them other than Nihilakh are quite good. A good first showing for the codex, in my view.

I don't think Nihilakh is too great, simply because you wan't to move your units to get into range or rapid-fire range.

-If it's another shooting army, you are gonna need to close the gap.

-if it's a melee army, you probably wanna take those few steps forward to get into rapid-fire range.

Tesla Immortals, Stalkers and DDA will benefit the most from it I suppose. But pretty much everything else will move (Wraiths, Tomb Blades, Warriors/ Gauss Immortals) or doesn't benefit from it (flyers, Destroyers)

Mephrit's dynastic code is really, really tasty.

Doctoralex wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
None of them are overpowered, but I think all of them other than Nihilakh are quite good. A good first showing for the codex, in my view.

I don't think Nihilakh is too great, simply because you wan't to move your units to get into range or rapid-fire range.

-If it's another shooting army, you are gonna need to close the gap.

-if it's a melee army, you probably wanna take those few steps forward to get into rapid-fire range.

Tesla Immortals, Stalkers and DDA will benefit the most from it I suppose. But pretty much everything else will move (Wraiths, Tomb Blades, Warriors/Immortals) or doesn't benefit from it (flyers, Destroyers)

It lets you get the full value out of a Tesla Immortals+MWBD without throwing points into a Stalker or wasting the Stalkers shooting on sub-optimum targets. I can't tell you how many times I felt I had to throw a stalkers shots into a horde just to get the rerolls for my Immortals. Letting Stalkers target what they want (and benefiting the bigger guns as a result) while getting the most out of Tesla+MWBD sounds like a huge plus to me.

Don't know if the models will be good but it also grants a rather nice boon to the Obelisk and Vault, and it works with Tomb World Deploy and Veil teleports. The bonus to overwatch is just gravy.

Conversely Nephrekh and Novokh feel like they will need some buffs to our Melee line-up to make worthwhile. Nephrekh let's me get closer to charging but unless I get something to Advance and Charge isn't very appealing. Novokh just suffers from our current mobility issues.

That said I can see myself using the Novokh when I take a Outrider for massed Scarabs though I think they're fast enough not to need the bonus from Nephrekh.

Allegedly from the same source, found on the necron Facebook page:

Copied from source:

wat we know about necron codex

Dynasty traits
-1 rend when within half range
-re roll hit rolls of 1 when you stand still
-vehicles ignore moving and shooting heavy weps

-stratagems
- 2 cp re roll RP's of 1
- 2 cp canoptek units roll RP
-1cp canooptek units can charge after advancing
-1cp/2cp blow up a scarab base causing D3 mortal

Units
Troops
Immortals same price
-warriors ?

Fast attack
-Wraiths went up by 17 pts but gained 1ap and 1D
-tomb blades went down by 11 pts, gained new wargear
scarabs stayed the same

Elite
Lychguard down 1 pt
deathmarks down 1 pt

Heavy suppot
Heavy destroyers down to 57 pts
Doomsday ark has D6 shots

HQ
-lord is same pts but re rolls wound rolls of 1
-overlord is down 25 pts
-cryptek is down 20 pts
-destroyerlord is down a few pts
-named HQ about same price

-possible prefered enemny with eldar
spyder has some stragem ability
flying cryptek moves 10 and has an ability for tanks and heros

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Allegedly from the same source, found on the necron Facebook page:

Spoiler:

Copied from source:

wat we know about necron codex

Dynasty traits
-1 rend when within half range
-re roll hit rolls of 1 when you stand still
-vehicles ignore moving and shooting heavy weps

-stratagems
- 2 cp re roll RP's of 1
- 2 cp canoptek units roll RP
-1cp canooptek units can charge after advancing Love the sound of that with Nephrekh and Novokh which are already the factions I want to put my Canopteks in.
-1cp/2cp blow up a scarab base causing D3 mortal Depending on what times I can do that this excites me greatly, if it's just after a successful charge or at the start/end of a turn I'm interested but less excited.

Units
Troops
Immortals same price
-warriors ?

Fast attack
-Wraiths went up by 17 pts but gained 1ap and 1D
-tomb blades went down by 11 pts, gained new wargear
scarabs stayed the same

Elite
Lychguard down 1 pt
deathmarks down 1 pt Both of these point drops are disappointing unless they altered the stats somewhere else.

Heavy suppot
Heavy destroyers down to 57 pts I assume this is with weapons? otherwise they are base 43 pts and this is a nerf not a buff. If it's with weapons then regular destroyers should be down as well.
Doomsday ark has D6 shots

HQ
-lord is same pts but re rolls wound rolls of 1 If this is an aura then I need more lords. If this is just him I couldn't care less.
-overlord is down 25 pts Ecstatic to see get ~50 points back on a Tesla+MWBD list.
-cryptek is down 20 pts Less excited than the overlord but no complaints here
-destroyerlord is down a few pts
-named HQ about same price So much sad face, so much.

-possible prefered enemny with eldar
spyder has some stragem ability
flying cryptek moves 10 and has an ability for tanks and heros

Individual thoughts in green, spoiler for size:

Overall I'm nervous to see our points staying about the same as I generally feel we're overcosted, I'm cautiously optimistic that the above is inaccurate or we receive buffs elsewhere to compensate for minimal reductions.

From wading through the barely literate discord where this is coming from I gather that the Lords wound reroll is an aura.

Why is it that people who get the codexes early either can't spell or take photographs of it during an earthquake? It's a curse.

It's because I don't think it's leakers, I think it's GW using back channels to generate hype.

If they dropped heavy gauss down to a sane 25 points (las cannon price), that's only 7 points of reduction, that means destroyers would have dropped 12 points to be 31 points a model. That's actually reasonable since they are basically paying 6 points for an extra wound over Inceptors.

Tomb blades probably have the same thing as destroyers, weapon went down in price (from 8pts per blaster to 4?) as well as a model point reduction. So 21 point per tomb blade, which seems right since they would be double movement and +1 toughness compared to warriors.

Not sure if that's right because that would make immortals 12 points a model with blasters, and warriors are already a bargain reducing their price further seems excessive.

*edit*
Looking at the math there is no way, gauss blasters probably dropped to 6 point per model, making immortals 14 points per model equipped down from 16. That would probably put warriors at 11 points per model, which is a steal for their statline. that leaves tomb blades at warrior +6 for an extra wound, toughness, and double movement, which seems too cheap unless they lost the extra wound.

Nephrekh is a winner, I'll have to see the rest of what the other Dynasties have access to, to really feel interested in them.

Not to knock the raw output of Mephrit, but... Shooting better? That's so boring! I'll take my Necrons weird, thank you very much.

Those are some tasty Dynasty Codes. (Other than Nihilkah, which is rather boring.)

Just reading the Novokh-Code has increased the chances of Necrons being my next army by 50%.

Melee'crons here we go!

Wraith went up with points but with AP-2 and 2dmg it looks like they might work okay. It would be cool if they would get some Strategems.

I play dark angels gunline so Nihilakh Code seems delightfully familiar, but not tempting.

Sautekh will play the most like 7th ed decurion, where we just ran to the middle of the board and got into short range shin kicking contest.

Novokh is so good, if I had a large number of flayed ones I'd be all over it. Even still when I run necron soup (which is a really weird thing to say), I'll be running a harvest style spearhead with Novokh code.

Nepherek is delightfully weird, it will be a fun way for a big unit of wraiths to get past a screen and then blow a CP so they can get into CC.

However my suspicion is that the dynasty code leak is from forgebane, because unlike all other chapter tactics they don't list who it applies to. Given that it's a one off, some of the rules might change in the codex. Specifically I think they will only affect infantry, bikes and walkers. So canoptek being beasts will mean they don't get the benefit.

A really cool stratagem if that's true would allow a spyder to grant the necron code to near by canoptek units, which would bring back the old necron truism kill the Goddamned spyder, it would be nostalgic to actually have it worthwhile enough for someone bothering to shoot at them.

If Advance + Charge Wraith Strat is a real thing, Nephrekh is dope.

Mephrit is best overall imo.

Nihilakh will mostly just be Tesla Immortals + Overlords in a separate detachment from the rest of your stuff.

I like the Dynasty codes a lot.

I'm still quite concerned about the points drops we are seeing. Lychguard only dropping one point is not nearly good enough, unless they have some major statline changes.

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Dynasty codes a lot.

I'm still quite concerned about the points drops we are seeing. Lychguard only dropping one point is not nearly good enough, unless they have some major statline changes.

For all we know, their wargear might get cheaper as well, and/or they might get some other rule we don't know of yet.

I agree that a 1 point discount is not nearly good enough. Lychguard are horribly overpriced with their current rules.

I'm assuming the price drop for heavy destroyers applies to the model, not the weapon.
So if Heavies drop by 18 points, that means the destroyer model should be 25 points.
Of course, that doesn't quite solve the problem of their weapons being overpriced, so maybe they do get cheaper weapons after all.

Lords sound useful. Might be worth taking.
Do overlords get an aura? Its weird that currently overlords are, like, the only HQ in the game that doesn't have an aura buff.

Not sure if I want to go Mephrit or Novokh.
On one hand, Mephrit sounds extremely powerful, to the point I suspect it might be fake. I can see most players going for it as a default.
On the other hand, my army already looks a bit Novokh; both that dynasty and my army has a red color scheme. Not saying that is my intended dynasty, but that's what they look like.
Aren't Novokh the destroyer dynasty? I might go for them after all, because I do like destroyers.

A single point reduction for lychguard sounds weird. What's the point?

Where's the Discord these leaks are coming from?

Edit: nevermind found it. Super Wargamer claims he was authorized to publish that page. That seems kinda unusual.

Lychguard are only 19 points, so even a 1 point reduction is noticeable. Their staline is certainly a bargain at 18, S5/T5 2 wounds 2 attacks.

Wargear is the overpriced part, specifically our shields are in for a 10 point reduction (to match storm shields) so the sword and board variety will be 11 points cheaper. Scythe are a powerfist analog, so I think their points are ok, and they will be much better with the new rules.

 Grimgold wrote:
Lychguard are only 19 points, so even a 1 point reduction is noticeable. Their staline is certainly a bargain at 18, S5/T5 2 wounds 2 attacks.

Wargear is the overpriced part, specifically our shields are in for a 10 point reduction (to match storm shields) so the sword and board variety will be 11 points cheaper. Scythe are a powerfist analog, so I think their points are ok, and they will be much better with the new rules.

Wait, what? Where did this come from?
Also, do you mean that the shields are 5 points each, or 10 points each?

And yeah, our equipment is pretty overpriced. I mean, I played against GK last night, and I couldn't do anything because even though we were both at 1k points, he somehow had disproportionately more short to medium ranged firepower.
Some of which was multi-damage.

Doctoralex wrote:

And lastly, Mephrit will probably be my favourite. Half-range is where Necron's are best. And ap-2 on a basic Gauss Flayer just sounds hilarious.
On top of that, it will work great on Tomb Blades, the fliers and aggressive Anh. Barges. It could also come on handy on Wraiths /w Particle Casters.
Oeh, and Deathmarks! Those boys are pretty much always n half-range when they do their thing.

If Tomb Blades went down 11 points (!!!) they'll be sweet. Fly is a game changer, and the Mephrit trait is an exponential boost. I could easily see these guys spammed like crazy.

Presumably Dynasty soup would be a thing to optimize bonuses in the units that want it?

sieGermans wrote:
Presumably Dynasty soup would be a thing to optimize bonuses in the units that want it?

Hm les see...

Sautekh: Pretty much your whole army will benefit somewhat from, though I don't know if the constant -1 to hit penalty for advancing is worth it.
Also, the more I think of it, the less the 'ignore heavy weapons' will do; Triach Stalkers don't have a Dynasty keyword, thus won't benefit from it. DDA will still require you to stand still for their high-powered shot. So pretty much only the Doomscythe and Wraith's /w Transdimensional Beamers.... yay?

Novokh: Flayed Ones, Lychguard, Pretorians (if they can get Dynasty keywords...), Canoptek Scarabs and Wraiths. Would be amazing on C'tan shards but alas, no Dynasty keyword again.
Can also work on large numbers of Warriors. Sort of a 'Come at me bro!' against melee armies.

Nihilakh: Telsa Immortals, DDA, maybe the Monolith? Also works best on the Obelisk and the Tesseract Vault.
Cán work on large number of Warriors, if you fire-power is sufficient enough that you force the enemy to come to you.

Nephrekh: Canoptek Scarabs and Wraiths.

Mephrit: Everyone!!!!!.gif But seriously, this Dynasty will benefit:
-Warriors/Gauss Immortals, thrown into close-range with Veil of Darkness/Invasion Beams/Grand Illusion.
-Tomb Blades.
-Deathmarks.
-Night/Doomscythes.
-Wraith's /w Particle Casters.
-aggressively used Destroyers/Anh. Barges/Monoliths.

Sautekh:
It looks like it will work best with DDAs, Doom scythes, Tesseract Ark, Canoptek Sentinel, Triarch Stalker (if it can be buffed), Anni Barge, CCB and Sentry Pylons (if your moving them).

Novokh:
It looks like anything that wants to fight face-to-face will be benefitted. Flayed Ones, Wraiths, Scarabs, Canoptek Stalker, Acanthrites, Lychguard and HQs who are not Dynasty specific e.g. CCb, Overlord, Lord, Destroyer Lord.

Nihilakh:
While not the best it does buff some units very well. Sentry Pylons, Gauss Pylons, DDAs, Tesseract Arks, Deceiver bomb, static gunlines. Maybe Deathmarks if them deep striking on an opponents turn isn't considered as moving.

Mephrit:
Probably the best code we got. Buffs basically everything that can shoot. Not going to name everything but here what sprung to my mind. Deceiver bomb with all Tesla Immortals, Anni Barges, Monoliths, Deathmarks, Tomb Sentinels, Acanthrites. Everything that uses Gauss,TOMB BLADES, DDAs (having -6 at 36" range is dangerous).

Nephrekh:
Kind of a niche but can be viable. See that objective over there that is 14" away? Just move and advance your Scarabs 16'. Works best with Tesla/P.beamer Tomb Blades, Scarabs, Wraiths, Lychguard (sword n board), Tesla Immortals, Acanthrites, Anni Barges.

Overall I am quite happy with these Codes. 1-3 of them (Novokh, Mephrit, Nephrekh) seem really good for tournament style playing while the other will more then likely be used in friendly games or light-tournaments. Everything is pretty fluffy though and everything gives our army a boost which is better then what we are currently.

Novokh/Mephrit soup seems legit.

Put everything that wants to fight (Fighty HQ's,Flayed Ones, Lychguard, Praetorians*, C'tan*, Scarabs, Wraiths and Spyders) in their own Novokh Vanguard/Spearhead detachments, and put everything else in Mephrit detachments.

I'd personally run pure Novokh. Partially because I'm strongly against soups, even within the same army, and partially because Novokh is pretty decent on Warriors/Immortals/Deathmraks etc. as well.

(*Assuming they get <Dynasty> in the codex, but it seems very likely.)

Those rules sound awesome. Can't wait to start building lists with these new additions.

All rules seem to benifit different models and play styles. So I'm very hopefull of the rest of the codex. I don't think we need the major rule/point adjustment that some seem to want.

I am more than happy to remain in the middle tier OPness and not have another few years of people complaining "Fcking op Necrons."

Mephrit seems legitly awesome. That plus tesla weapons, oh heck yes. Now you really want to rethink charging, plus -1ap to everything will be awesome even if you have to get within half distance.

Heck, destroyer squads with a heavy destroyer and destroyer lord will be crazy good. Str 9, reroll 1's to hit and wound, - 4 or -5 Ap? On top of regular gauss cannons? That's definitely scarry.

I have a feeling some are overlooking the wording of the Novokh Dynastic Code like I did at first:

You can re-roll failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for units with this code if they charged, were charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention this turn.

Basically you'll only get this in the first turn of a combat. The second and later turns you won't get the re-rolls since they did not charge, were not charged or did not perform a Heroic Intervention that turn.

If you are going after the right targets, you shouldn't be in combat for more than a round or two.

What I’m most curious about is if Reanimation Protocols has changed. Personally I think the design that if all the models die, nobody gets to roll anything is awful. It essentially forces the player to take max size units, and forces the enemy to focus fire units until they are finished. Likewise, the variance has too big of an effect. Sometimes at above average rolls a unit dies entirely, and sometimes when a unit should die, it doesn’t, and then with bonuses and gems half or more get back.

It’d be better if they made it a flat 5++ FNP, and the thematic Necron resurrections happened with stratagems and relics and special abilities instead.

 Ghaz wrote:
I have a feeling some are overlooking the wording of the Novokh Dynastic Code like I did at first:

Don't think anyone has read that code wrong, the wording is very clear.

This is 8th Ed. so 90% of combats end in one turn anyway.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Lychguard are only 19 points, so even a 1 point reduction is noticeable. Their staline is certainly a bargain at 18, S5/T5 2 wounds 2 attacks.

Wargear is the overpriced part, specifically our shields are in for a 10 point reduction (to match storm shields) so the sword and board variety will be 11 points cheaper. Scythe are a powerfist analog, so I think their points are ok, and they will be much better with the new rules.

Wait, what? Where did this come from?
Also, do you mean that the shields are 5 points each, or 10 points each?

And yeah, our equipment is pretty overpriced. I mean, I played against GK last night, and I couldn't do anything because even though we were both at 1k points, he somehow had disproportionately more short to medium ranged firepower.
Some of which was multi-damage.

The point I was trying to get to is a 1 point reduction on Lychguard and Praetorians is probably coupled with a wargear pricedrop, so we shouldn't freak out too much about it only being a 1 point reduction.

Storm Shields are 5pts per model in the SM codex, as dispersion shields are functionally stormshields, they will drop to 5 points in the Necron codex. That's an 11 point reduction on a 37 point model, and thus equipped can go toe to toe with much more expensive thunder hammer stormshield equipped terminators and expect to win. Hell they could rumble one on one with certain version of custodes and have a decent chance of winning. The thing I'm really hoping for is we could mix weapon types, but that's probably not going to happen.

Praetorians are probably in for a much more modest reduction in points, but they were arguably in a much better place to begin with. If they lose 1 point off of the model and 2 off of the rod of covenant they will still be 32 points per model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I have a feeling some are overlooking the wording of the Novokh Dynastic Code like I did at first:

Don't think anyone has read that code wrong, the wording is very clear.

This is 8th Ed. so 90% of combats end in one turn anyway.

Yup, because CC is almost never two units duking it out and is instead units that are good in CC beating up units that aren't, so unless they are trying to tarpit they will bail the next round (if they survive).

Mephrit adds very little damage to Tesla, which is a shame because I built all of my Immortals with carbines back in 5th.

Assuming you drop these units forward with a VoD-carrying Necron Lord, or drop them in range via other means:

Against T4, Warriors deal more damage; against T5 and higher, Immortals deal more damage. However the damage difference against T5+ is one whole wound, for max-sized units of Warriors and Immortals.

Considering you have to be at half range to benefit, Gauss will provide more target flexibility for Mephrit, than Tesla.

--

Deathmarks do not benefit much at all, though the Necron Lord's aura gets them a near-guaranteed mortal wound per 10 shots. Deathmarks are okay, but they need something from the codex to make them worthwhile compared to other options.

--

Heavier weapons offer some interesting choices with Mephrit. For brevity I looked at Heavy Destroyers versus melta Sentry Pylons. Keeping mind that points and profile changes could happen with Destroyers:

At the moment, 3 Heavy Destroyers cost more than one melta Pylon, and deal about 2 wounds less against T5-T8 targets. The Heavy Destroyers can split up their damage while the Pylon cannot, but the Pylon can immediately enter Solar Fury range via deep strike.

In the Heavy Destroyer's favor, they are able to receive buffs from Destroyer Lords, Overlords and Lords. You can consider these to be effective cost increases but in many cases you'll already have those HQs to fill other roles. Additionally, Destroyers are more likely to receive support from Warlord Traits and Stratagems than FW units are.

Mephrit may not "come into play much" on tesla, but as an added bonus I like it. Plus if someone charges your tesla equipped guys that can make a difference since that's garunteed range for the -1ap. I am not looking at it from a pure mathhammer in a vacuum situation, I am looking at it from a faction wide bonus. Since my force always take tesla when it can (tesla rocks) that's where my mind went.

I mean, think of an obelisk. Drops in 12" away, shoots 20 shots at 3+ and has str 7 ap-1. Assuming this applys to everything like eldar traits and not specifics like space marine tactics.

I wouldn't bet on shields coming all the way down to 5pts. Terminators already have a baked in 5+ inv that they pay for in base cost. The 5pts is to upgrade a 5+ to a 3+. I'm guessing that we'll see 8-10 points for ours.

Drakmord wrote:
Mephrit adds very little damage to Tesla, which is a shame because I built all of my Immortals with carbines back in 5th.

Assuming you drop these units forward with a VoD-carrying Necron Lord, or drop them in range via other means:

Against T4, Warriors deal more damage; against T5 and higher, Immortals deal more damage. However the damage difference against T5+ is one whole wound, for max-sized units of Warriors and Immortals.

Considering you have to be at half range to benefit, Gauss will provide more target flexibility for Mephrit, than Tesla.

--

Deathmarks do not benefit much at all, though the Necron Lord's aura gets them a near-guaranteed mortal wound per 10 shots. Deathmarks are okay, but they need something from the codex to make them worthwhile compared to other options.

--

Heavier weapons offer some interesting choices with Mephrit. For brevity I looked at Heavy Destroyers versus melta Sentry Pylons. Keeping mind that points and profile changes could happen with Destroyers:

At the moment, 3 Heavy Destroyers cost more than one melta Pylon, and deal about 2 wounds less against T5-T8 targets. The Heavy Destroyers can split up their damage while the Pylon cannot, but the Pylon can immediately enter Solar Fury range via deep strike.

In the Heavy Destroyer's favor, they are able to receive buffs from Destroyer Lords, Overlords and Lords. You can consider these to be effective cost increases but in many cases you'll already have those HQs to fill other roles. Additionally, Destroyers are more likely to receive support from Warlord Traits and Stratagems than FW units are.

Not sure on the math on that, so i did the below:

w/ mephrit and MWBD
Tesla: (1/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2) * 2 = .98 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = .92 wounds per immortal

w/ mephrit
Tesla: (1/6 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2) * 2 = .64 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = .74 wounds per immortal

wo/ mephrit w/MWBD
Tesla: (1/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3) * 2 = .66 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = .74 wounds per immortal

wo/ mephrit and MWBD
Tesla: (1/6 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3) * 2 = .44 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = .6 wounds per immortal

Using the above, we can see against MEQ both with and without MWBD Tesla benefits more from Mephrit than gauss does. The reason for that is going from a 0 to a -1 is a bigger deal than going from a -2 to a -3. This will be especially noticeable when targeting units with poor armor saves or invuls. So yeah Mephrit should absolutely be using Tesla on their immortals, there are only a few cases where Gauss is better, and even then they are comparable, but when tesla is better it's way better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I wouldn't bet on shields coming all the way down to 5pts. Terminators already have a baked in 5+ inv that they pay for in base cost. The 5pts is to upgrade a 5+ to a 3+. I'm guessing that we'll see 8-10 points for ours.

But vets can take stormshields and still only pay 5 points for them. Same with deathwatch and wulfen.

Drakmord wrote:
Mephrit adds very little damage to Tesla, which is a shame because I built all of my Immortals with carbines back in 5th.

Assuming you drop these units forward with a VoD-carrying Necron Lord, or drop them in range via other means:

Against T4, Warriors deal more damage; against T5 and higher, Immortals deal more damage. However the damage difference against T5+ is one whole wound, for max-sized units of Warriors and Immortals.

Considering you have to be at half range to benefit, Gauss will provide more target flexibility for Mephrit, than Tesla.

--

Deathmarks do not benefit much at all, though the Necron Lord's aura gets them a near-guaranteed mortal wound per 10 shots. Deathmarks are okay, but they need something from the codex to make them worthwhile compared to other options.

--

Heavier weapons offer some interesting choices with Mephrit. For brevity I looked at Heavy Destroyers versus melta Sentry Pylons. Keeping mind that points and profile changes could happen with Destroyers:

At the moment, 3 Heavy Destroyers cost more than one melta Pylon, and deal about 2 wounds less against T5-T8 targets. The Heavy Destroyers can split up their damage while the Pylon cannot, but the Pylon can immediately enter Solar Fury range via deep strike.

In the Heavy Destroyer's favor, they are able to receive buffs from Destroyer Lords, Overlords and Lords. You can consider these to be effective cost increases but in many cases you'll already have those HQs to fill other roles. Additionally, Destroyers are more likely to receive support from Warlord Traits and Stratagems than FW units are.

I'm not sure what you're doing here. Like, yeah, a full squad of Warriors will typically do more damage than a full squad of Immortals, absent MWBD, because a squad of Warriors is more expensive and has more guys in it. That's not telling you much about Tesla vs Gauss. The same analysis yields that, with Mephrit, Warriors do more damage than Gauss Immortals to T4 unless you're dealing with 2+ saves in cover. That said, MWBD obviously synergizes extremely well with Tesla, and Tesla Immortals with MWBD and Mephrit will out-perform Gauss Immortals at half range against anything worse than a 2+ save. I don't know what you mean when you talk about "target flexibility" -- surely a huge advantage of Tesla is that it works really well at long range and then is still considerably buffed by Mephrit closer in, and is much better against a wide variety of targets.

It's just generally going to be true that weapons without much AP benefit much more from Mephrit than weapons with good AP. If you're shooting your AP-3 gun at a 3+ save, Mephrit is going to get you a 20% increase in expected damage, unless of course they've got a 6++ or better in which case it doesn't help you at all. If you're shooting an AP0 gun at a 3+ save, Mephrit is worth a 50% increase in expected damage, unless they've also got a 3++. Mephrit is almost useless for Heavy Destroyers -- it only matters at all against 2+ saves, and even then is only a 20% buff. Granted, none of the codes do that much for Heavy Destroyers -- you're choosing between advancing and shooting at -1 or advancing 6".

But that's why the units that synergize best with Mephrit are almost all going to be fast things with Tesla. There's a role for backfield Tesla Immortals, who wouldn't benefit much, but you're basically always going to want Tomb Blades, Night and even Doom Scythes, and Annihilation Barges to be Mephrit. This is especially true for the big things, since S7 AP0 is a pretty weird profile that you have a hard time finding good targets for.

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Dynasty codes a lot.

I'm still quite concerned about the points drops we are seeing. Lychguard only dropping one point is not nearly good enough, unless they have some major statline changes.

It all depends on gear, if warscythes drop OR if they finally don't suck then it makes a big difference. I think the warscythe shoot work closer to fulgerite priests in admech and do d3 wounds with potential for d3 mortal wounds on a 6 to wound instead. It's idiotic that they don't carve through armor and invulns like they shhould.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mephrit will make Gauss blasters insane. I can't believe folks are discussing tesla lol.

A guass blaster becomes ap -3 and at s5 that makes it incredibly similar to none overchaged plasma against a multitude of targets. Add in a necron lord nearby and these things will erase vehicles and infantry a like. If you want tesla you should be taking it as destructors on barges and scythes. Much better set up for it there since then it is wounding little gribllies on 2's not 3's and both units have fly. Very limited things have access to blasters and I personally won't waste immortals and DEFINITELY not tomb blades on rubbish tesla.

On that note, tomb blades are going to be sick from mephrit. 4 strength 5 ap -3 shots each on a t5 flying platform. There is no really good solution to silencing these things. Best bet is getting in close, deleting a target and assaulting another since you can always leave next turn an fire anyway.

EDIT : BTW part of my problem with telsa is it is way to much a gimmick. MANY things aply a -1 this edition and several from multiple areas. I know multpiple ways are involving the 12" band we want them in but several don't and further more I'd rather have a gun that in a pinch still has ap -2 rather then 0...

Mobile is determined to stop me from posting so I'll try quick reply.

Immortals vs Warriors was done to see how much more damage you would be getting for the difference in cost, for your Troop slot, under Solar Fury; not just which one does more. As all of this is potentially pointless without the full picture (for all I know Immortals could get a shoot twice stratagem, in which case Hell yes Tesla) it is important to identify where we can save points without compromising effectiveness.

Gauss is more tactically flexible than Tesla, on Immortals, because AP-2 to -3 is more likely to be the difference between your target getting a save, and not getting one At All. If all I ever expect to shoot are Orks and Kroot, I would favor Tesla, or if I was putting Immortals into Nihilakh or Nephrekh or Sautekh instead, where they receive rerolls or increased mobility. Or if they get that hypothetical doubletap stratagem!

Likewise I compared our heavy support options which were most capable of entering Solar Fury range. I could have done the Monolith too but the difference in cost there is more pronounced. Aside from multitudinous ways of getting cover, Necrons lack effective means with which to deal with high value targets like Knights or Mortarion. If we only needed masses of Warriors or Tomb Blades, this thread would be dead because we had solved the faction, and not because we have all been waiting months for our codex to provide solutions to our various problems.

 Grimgold wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Lychguard are only 19 points, so even a 1 point reduction is noticeable. Their staline is certainly a bargain at 18, S5/T5 2 wounds 2 attacks.

Wargear is the overpriced part, specifically our shields are in for a 10 point reduction (to match storm shields) so the sword and board variety will be 11 points cheaper. Scythe are a powerfist analog, so I think their points are ok, and they will be much better with the new rules.

Wait, what? Where did this come from?
Also, do you mean that the shields are 5 points each, or 10 points each?

And yeah, our equipment is pretty overpriced. I mean, I played against GK last night, and I couldn't do anything because even though we were both at 1k points, he somehow had disproportionately more short to medium ranged firepower.
Some of which was multi-damage.

The point I was trying to get to is a 1 point reduction on Lychguard and Praetorians is probably coupled with a wargear pricedrop, so we shouldn't freak out too much about it only being a 1 point reduction.

Storm Shields are 5pts per model in the SM codex, as dispersion shields are functionally stormshields, they will drop to 5 points in the Necron codex. That's an 11 point reduction on a 37 point model, and thus equipped can go toe to toe with much more expensive thunder hammer stormshield equipped terminators and expect to win. Hell they could rumble one on one with certain version of custodes and have a decent chance of winning. The thing I'm really hoping for is we could mix weapon types, but that's probably not going to happen.

Praetorians are probably in for a much more modest reduction in points, but they were arguably in a much better place to begin with. If they lose 1 point off of the model and 2 off of the rod of covenant they will still be 32 points per model.

Wow, a 3++ is only 5 points now? That's pretty nuts.
The fact that necrons pay 3x for it in the index is ridiculous. I swear whoever wrote the index either hates or doesn't understand necrons, because everything they have is overpriced atm.

Drakmord wrote:
Mobile is determined to stop me from posting so I'll try quick reply.

Immortals vs Warriors was done to see how much more damage you would be getting for the difference in cost, for your Troop slot, under Solar Fury; not just which one does more. As all of this is potentially pointless without the full picture (for all I know Immortals could get a shoot twice stratagem, in which case Hell yes Tesla) it is important to identify where we can save points without compromising effectiveness.

But you didn't account for the difference in cost. That was my point. It's not true that Warriors are always more efficient than Tesla Immortals against T4, only that they always do more total damage if you have max squads of each. You didn't seem to be saying anything about where you "can save points without compromising effectiveness"; you're just pointing out that if you spend more you get more. Now, there are absolutely reasons to favor the big unit of Warriors even if it's less efficient against many targets -- if you're using a VoD you can only bring one unit and so you have reason to bring the most expensive unit even if it's not the most efficient unit.

Gauss is more tactically flexible than Tesla, on Immortals, because AP-2 to -3 is more likely to be the difference between your target getting a save, and not getting one At All. If all I ever expect to shoot are Orks and Kroot, I would favor Tesla, or if I was putting Immortals into Nihilakh or Nephrekh or Sautekh instead, where they receive rerolls or increased mobility. Or if they get that hypothetical doubletap stratagem!

This is confused. You shouldn't care very much about the difference between your target getting a save and not getting one. That's a lot less important than the difference between your target getting a 4+ and your target getting a 5+. See Grimgold's math above where he shows that Mephrit brings Tesla Immortals almost up to the level of Gauss Immortals against T4 3+ at half range. Basically: Mephrit is clearly a reason to bring more Tesla, not less. If you were already going to VoD a bunch of Warriors or Gauss Immortals to shoot MEQs, you probably won't stop, but it is a relatively less appealing tactic for Mephrit than with other codes, and certainly if you were using Gauss Immortals you should strongly consider switching to Tesla if using Mephrit.

Likewise I compared our heavy support options which were most capable of entering Solar Fury range. I could have done the Monolith too but the difference in cost there is more pronounced. Aside from multitudinous ways of getting cover, Necrons lack effective means with which to deal with high value targets like Knights or Mortarion. If we only needed masses of Warriors or Tomb Blades, this thread would be dead because we had solved the faction, and not because we have all been waiting months for our codex to provide solutions to our various problems.

But you're still ignoring that those heavy support options barely benefit from Solar Fury. It makes absolutely no sense to be talking about how Solar Fury helps your Heavy Destroyers or melta Sentry Pylons against Knights and Mortarion. It does literally nothing for those models against Knights and Mortarion. It would do nothing for them even if they didn't have invuln saves, because they only have 3+ armor and so going from AP-4 to AP-5 would be overkill. You "could have done the Monolith" but if you really had you would have noticed that Mephrit again does literally nothing for the Monolith against Knights and Mortarion, because Knights have a 5++ and Mortarion has a 4++, and the Monolith already has AP-2. Mephrit is helping most Necron anti-tank against... Land Raiders, and not much else.

Certainly, Necrons lack good anti-tank -- that's the main reason I haven't played them much in 8th. Hopefully the codex will help with that. But it's important to realize that Mephrit doesn't actually make your anti-tank units much better. Necron anti-tank already tends to be AP-4 and a lot of the scariest big things have invulnerable saves anyway. Where it really shines is instead on low AP weapons, because it makes them much, much better against things with decent saves. Tesla stands out as the thing that benefits most, especially S7 Tesla Destructors, but the standard AP-1 Gauss weapons get a lot out of it too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

EDIT : BTW part of my problem with telsa is it is way to much a gimmick. MANY things aply a -1 this edition and several from multiple areas. I know multpiple ways are involving the 12" band we want them in but several don't and further more I'd rather have a gun that in a pinch still has ap -2 rather then 0...

I mean, the reason you take Tesla is that it's much, much better outside of 12", where -- as you note -- most of those penalties apply. Even without the possibility of multiple hits, you get twice as many shots such that it's always at least as good against 3+ saves. Yeah, you'd take Gauss blasters if you were always going to be within 12" of your target and never using MWBD. I don't think anyone denies that. My thinking -- and I assume what other people who are excited about what Mephrit means for Tesla are thinking -- is that you get all of the traditional advantages of Tesla beyond 12" and then you make up a lot of the gap between it and Gauss inside 12". Plus there are some Tesla weapons that don't have Gauss equivalents and are on fast platforms, and they suddenly get a big buff at half range.

But, sure, if you're expecting that your Tomb Blades will just always be within 12" of what you want to shoot, then take blasters. While Mephrit doesn't make this relatively more appealing compared to carbines -- because the carbine build benefits even more inside 12" -- it may make it absolutely more appealing compared to everything else in the codex. Personally, I feel like that'll often be hard to do. That's only a move-and-shoot range of 26". I feel like Tesla keeps them much more effective on turn 1, and Mephrit adds a lot of punch if they do happen to get closer later on.

Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?

And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?

And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

TL: DR - It's complicated and depends on a few factors, but for immortals most necrons should take gauss Mephrit should probably take tesla.

If they both have My will be done and the Mephrit bonus, then yes Tesla is better at killing MEQ, no qualifiers. Without MWBD there are only certain cases where gauss edges out Tesla, Within 12" targets don't have invuls, and have an armor save of 2+ 3+ or4+. If you are facing a minus to hit, Gauss will probably be better.

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?
And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

Mephrit MWBD Tesla Immortals inflict more wounds on 3+ saves than Mephrit MWBD Gauss Immortals, even inside 12" (by 35%).

Mephrit Tesla Immortals are very slightly better than non-Mephrit Gauss Immortals (12.5%).

But Mephrit Gauss Immortals edge out Mephrit Tesla Immortals if MWBD isn't in play (11%).

You can see how this is a significant improvement for Tesla -- right now, Gauss is 33% better without MWBD and still 11% better with. All inside 12" of course; outside 12" there's not really a contest.

Ahh 40k here is a hobby than can bring French, Russians, Germans and Americans together.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I wouldn't bet on shields coming all the way down to 5pts. Terminators already have a baked in 5+ inv that they pay for in base cost. The 5pts is to upgrade a 5+ to a 3+. I'm guessing that we'll see 8-10 points for ours.

But vets can take stormshields and still only pay 5 points for them. Same with deathwatch and wulfen.

Vets and deathwatch are single wound models, you don't get as much millage out of the save on them. That's why it's 15pts for characters who are sitting at 4-6 wounds. Wulfen are really the odd duck as a two wound model that still only pays 5. My guess is there are a few points baked in the base model cost for the wulfen claws they give up that accounts for a bit of a discount, but aside from that, I don't have a good answer. Everything else I'm aware of fits the same point philosophy. In the end, I think if you are expecting a 3++ invuln for 5 points on those guys, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Eldar pay 6 points for Forceshields on their Wraithblades.
That's 6 points for a 4++ on a T6 W3 3+ model.

I'd expect Lychguard (assuming they stay T5 W2 3+) to pay at most 5 points for a 4++, but even a 3++ for 5 points doesn't feel like a stretch when compared to Wraithblades.

Terminators can also mix weapon types, lychguard can't, so it's a bit better for terminators on that front. As for two wounds vs one wound, one of the big complaints for terminators right now (and primaris marines) is that multi wound weapons are so common, so having two wounds is a little less awesome than it should be.

Guess we'll have to wait for more leaks to find out, though I'd be willing to pay a bit more if they gave us back 5th ed dispersion shields.

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?

And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

TL: DR - It's complicated and depends on a few factors, but for immortals most necrons should take gauss Mephrit should probably take tesla.

If they both have My will be done and the Mephrit bonus, then yes Tesla is better at killing MEQ, no qualifiers. Without MWBD there are only certain cases where gauss edges out Tesla, Within 12" targets don't have invuls, and have an armor save of 2+ 3+ or4+. If you are facing a minus to hit, Gauss will probably be better.

Except people here are willfully ignoring other armies bonuses as well. I play a ton of Admech that like deepstriking in with lucius. That trait ignores an ap of -1, kind of like one of the better tau traits that was just released. Or you know, just traditional cover. Telsa is one of those weapons that looks amazing on paper until you start playing. I am not saying it is bad by any means, but gaus blasters are so far ahead it isn't even funny. For the points if your looking at anti horde your still better off taking warriors then tesla immortals, thats more my issue. Your wasting points and potential when you put tesla on immortals. A normal flayer and a carbine wounds GEQ on a 3, so your just paying through the nose for shots over AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Eldar pay 6 points for Forceshields on their Wraithblades.
That's 6 points for a 4++ on a T6 W3 3+ model.

I'd expect Lychguard (assuming they stay T5 W2 3+) to pay at most 5 points for a 4++, but even a 3++ for 5 points doesn't feel like a stretch when compared to Wraithblades.

Hopefully they pay more but the damn shields do what they used to and bounce mortal wounds back.

Well, we'll see soon enough whatever it is. I know what I'll be happy with, and what I'll be disappointed with. Consistency with points has never been one of GW's strong points, so nothing is likely to shock me.

 Red Corsair wrote:


Except people here are willfully ignoring other armies bonuses as well. I play a ton of Admech that like deepstriking in with lucius. That trait ignores an ap of -1, kind of like one of the better tau traits that was just released. Or you know, just traditional cover. Telsa is one of those weapons that looks amazing on paper until you start playing. I am not saying it is bad by any means, but gaus blasters are so far ahead it isn't even funny. For the points if your looking at anti horde your still better off taking warriors then tesla immortals, thats more my issue. Your wasting points and potential when you put tesla on immortals. A normal flayer and a carbine wounds GEQ on a 3, so your just paying through the nose for shots over AP.

But flayers aren't str 5, blasters are, and lucius is literally the only faction that ignores AP -1, which seems a tad specific to plan around, especially since a 4+ save is safely within the area where the extra shots from tesla will usually matter more. -1 to hit is much more common, which I mentioned, but since mephrit only works within 12", alpha legion and raven guard traits aren't that helpful so only venomthropes and abilities like aversion will really cramp your style.

Also at anything beyond 12" tesla is flat better against anything that is not TEQ. though you tend to run into problems with alpha legion and raven guard.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Hopefully they pay more but the damn shields do what they used to and bounce mortal wounds back.

That would sure be nice, we are short on ways to generate mortal wounds, and that's a fun way to do it that doesn't seem overpowered.

It will be interesting to see the dynasty specific warlord traits and relics. As it stands right now, I'll probably play my army with the -1 ap trait. It seems like something that will be useful while not forcing you into a specific build. The Nihilakh trait doesn't appeal to me. I already have Dark Angels, I don't want my Necrons to play like a lesser version of that. For it to work, you would basically need to spam Annihilation Barges and other stationary guns. I prefer to have a more mobile Necron list. That's the cool part of the army IMO, you move forward with Wraiths, Destroyers and other mechanized forces to bring the mid-range dakka to the enemy. The melee one looks cool too, but I don't have the models to play that list.

Just as long as everyone remembers that we're discussing what could just be an image someone generated. Until we see confirmation from multiple sources/pics of the book itself I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket.

It would be nice if Hyperphase swords were +1 STR as well. Would really make Sword and Board Lychguard and even Over/Lords much more attractive as an option.

im 100% certain this leak is real. it came from a youtube channel of a guy who proved to be a legitimate source in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnV73nsjuo

Mephrit seems decent but probably not to the level of hype it's getting. It's only really good for Gauss Flayers and Blasters.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Mephrit seems decent but probably not to the level of hype it's getting. It's only really good for Gauss Flayers and Blasters.

As well as anything that gets charged or anything that has Tesla. Going from AP 0 to AP -1 is quite a difference. Makes it easier to kill horde armies. While giving Gauss Blasters -3 AP makes sure that what it shoots at will die.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Mephrit seems decent but probably not to the level of hype it's getting. It's only really good for Gauss Flayers and Blasters.

While it may be possible it is over-hyped (heck, we're like cast-aways who have seen the first sign of what may be an airplane in the distance), if you take a look at the math, additional AP value has diminishing returns based on existing AP value.

 Shuddl wrote:
im 100% certain this leak is real. it came from a youtube channel of a guy who proved to be a legitimate source in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnV73nsjuo

Video info says it's his codex. But that page is not a photo or a scan. How exactly does he have access to a digital edition already?
Plus, if he/someone had access to the thing, why only leak a single part? Why not answer people's questions about stuff inside with shots of those sections?

No, for me it's far too easy to see this as just a page someone doctored up. If it turns out to be legit later, cool, but right now there's just not enough for me to overcome my warranted skepticism.

 Odrankt wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Mephrit seems decent but probably not to the level of hype it's getting. It's only really good for Gauss Flayers and Blasters.

As well as anything that gets charged or anything that has Tesla. Going from AP 0 to AP -1 is quite a difference. Makes it easier to kill horde armies. While giving Gauss Blasters -3 AP makes sure that what it shoots at will die.

One of the better things Tesla has going for it is that is does everything full power at 24" range. Mephrit's bonus adds an element of skornegy. I wouldn't take it for an inconsequential overwatch bonus either.

It is however great for the Gauss Blaster Bikes.

It's pretty much as niche as the others. You can build around delivering Gauss(bikes) into Rapidfire range and bring the hurt, but there's other deals to be found in the leaks too, especially factoring in potential stratagems, traits and relics.

The other element in conflict with Mephrit is that the unique personalities all heavily lean to Sautekh, and you'll probably be slotting Sautekh Battalions to access them, that you'd otherwise be putting your Mephrit Gauss troops into.

Novokh is clearly going to be a favourite for Vanguard/Outrider elements (assuming Canopteks benefit) and Nihilakh is decent for DDAs in Spearheads.

 skoffs wrote:

 Shuddl wrote:
im 100% certain this leak is real. it came from a youtube channel of a guy who proved to be a legitimate source in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnV73nsjuo

Video info says it's his codex. But that page is not a photo or a scan. How exactly does he have access to a digital edition already?
Plus, if he/someone had access to the thing, why only leak a single part? Why not answer people's questions about stuff inside with shots of those sections?

No, for me it's far too easy to see this as just a page someone doctored up. If it turns out to be legit later, cool, but right now there's just not enough for me to overcome my warranted skepticism.

Fair enough. As with all unofficial sources it comes down to whether you trust your source or not. I trust him since he was credible in the past. Besides i cant see why he would want to destroy his reputation amongst his communtiy.
I think GW provided him with a digital copy, and allowed him to leak this specific page to create buzz, which, looking at the past few pages of this thread, worked quite well.
But until its official, i can completely understand when people remain sceptical.

 skoffs wrote:

 Shuddl wrote:
im 100% certain this leak is real. it came from a youtube channel of a guy who proved to be a legitimate source in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnV73nsjuo

Video info says it's his codex. But that page is not a photo or a scan. How exactly does he have access to a digital edition already?
Plus, if he/someone had access to the thing, why only leak a single part? Why not answer people's questions about stuff inside with shots of those sections?

No, for me it's far too easy to see this as just a page someone doctored up. If it turns out to be legit later, cool, but right now there's just not enough for me to overcome my warranted skepticism.

Play testers don't receive physical copies there mate. What is the point in sending a finished print run to someone that is testing the contents?

 skoffs wrote:

 Shuddl wrote:
im 100% certain this leak is real. it came from a youtube channel of a guy who proved to be a legitimate source in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnV73nsjuo

Video info says it's his codex. But that page is not a photo or a scan. How exactly does he have access to a digital edition already?
Plus, if he/someone had access to the thing, why only leak a single part? Why not answer people's questions about stuff inside with shots of those sections?

No, for me it's far too easy to see this as just a page someone doctored up. If it turns out to be legit later, cool, but right now there's just not enough for me to overcome my warranted skepticism.

It's a controlled leak, he's only allowed to release what he's been told he can release to generate hype. You can choose not to believe us but it's the truth.

My thoughts exactly, a back channel "leak". For instance none of the tau leaks spoiled what the startide nexus is, which is something GW wants to be a suprise (my money is still on a dolmen gate). None of the leaks can substitute for a codex, but there was enough info to get a battlescribe points update done in time for launch.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/11/forgebane-pre-order-next-week/

Forgebane goes on preorder Saturday, Codex Necrons goes on preorder on the 24th. Most importantly, the Dynastic Codes have been confirmed to be true.

Wow forgebane got here faster than I thought. Going to have to fight the ebay resellers off with a stick to get a copy though, since the armigers won't get their own release until the knights codex.

I would have preffered to have the codex before forgebane.

Now that the Dynasty traits are confirmed, we can probably go ahead and start a new thread? We can probably ignore any potential price changes for now and just get to some nifty combos.

I guess we'll wait for Skoffs to send us the link of the new thread. I think we can be proud of the thread we had here. One of the longer ones if I'm not mistaken. And almost fully filled with actual tactics

 Nagerash wrote:
I guess we'll wait for Skoffs to send us the link of the new thread. I think we can be proud of the thread we had here. One of the longer ones if I'm not mistaken. And almost fully filled with actual tactics

I mean we did what we could with the index, but these bonuses alone would be made even the worst index units slightly below mediocrity.

At this point there’s no reason to doubt the leaks about the points changes if they came from the same guy who leaked the dynasty codes.

Tesseract Vault:

Only T7?

T7 and a 3+ for a 25 PL/~500 pts model.

Sounds squishy, even at 28 wounds.
I guess the 4++ would be too much with either T8 or a 2+.

Edit: After reading the C'tan powers, the pricetag makes more sense.

I don't understand, what's the difference? It still looks underwhelming to me.

Monolith didn't change. (I think)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand, what's the difference? It still looks underwhelming to me.

It has a 4++ and knows 4 powers (can only use 3 still).

I agree it's pretty underwhelming, though if the c'tan powers end up being crazy good then maybe it'd be worth it.

Monolith still looks bad. Imagine my shock.

Yeah, nothing exciting about the Monolith there. Maybe if it gets a point cut? IDK - the idea that the Tomb World deployment might be the same is depressing. Not putting a plastic bag over my head just yet though, stratagems and whatnot could still help a lot.

Tomb Blades, on the other hand (!)



C'tan powers:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Yeah, nothing exciting about the Monolith there. Maybe if it gets a point cut? IDK - the idea that the Tomb World deployment might be the same is depressing. Not putting a plastic bag over my head just yet though, stratagems and whatnot could still help a lot.

It seems odd to me that they didn't fix the Tomb World deployment rules when that was easily one of the most complained about aspects of the Index.

Yeah, those look really good. Straight -1 to hit at all ranges? Yes please.

Sooo yeah, that's why the tesseract vault is good I guess. I am quite happy with these c'tan powers.

Where are these leaks coming from? Anything on destroyers?

Sky of Falling Stars looks like a pretty clear choice IMO.

No change to tesla, that's disappointing, I was hoping it would at least get a -1 ap. That means our vehicles are still saddled with what are effectively anti-infantry weapons. Maybe we'll get a stratagem that will help.

4++ is pretty impressive, the obelisk will probably share that, wonder if the monolith gets it as well?

As for how squishy, well...

lascannon vs tesseract vault/Obelisk
2/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3.5 = .77 wounds per shot
for a total of 36 las cannon shots to take one down not counting living metal

lascannon vs Imperial knight
2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 1.04
for a total of 23 las cannon shots to take one down

It ends up being 36% tougher than an imperial knight, against las cannons, and that's before living metal. However it doesn't matter how tough it is if it's only attack is to flog people with a wet noodle.

The dam is leaking faster and faster:

Fingers crossed for a Lychguard datasheet.

Darsath wrote:
Sky of Falling Stars looks like a pretty clear choice IMO.

Its pretty good, but all the other powers are nice as well. Want to kill a character? Take time arrow. Want a longer ranged smite (I think smite is 18")? Take meteor.
Need to kill a hoard? Take assault. Need to kill more stuff in cc? Take fire.
Want an AoE smite with free aim? Take thunderbolt.

 Grimgold wrote:
No change to tesla, that's disappointing, I was hoping it would at least get a -1 ap. That means our vehicles are still saddled with what are effectively anti-infantry weapons. Maybe we'll get a stratagem that will help.

4++ is pretty impressive, the obelisk will probably share that, wonder if the monolith gets it as well?

As for how squishy, well...

lascannon vs tesseract vault/Obelisk
2/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3.5 = .77 wounds per shot
for a total of 36 las cannon shots to take one down not counting living metal

lascannon vs Imperial knight
2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3.5 = 1.04
for a total of 23 las cannon shots to take one down

It ends up being 36% tougher than an imperial knight, against las cannons, and that's before living metal. However it doesn't matter how tough it is if it's only attack is to flog people with a wet noodle.

The vault seems pretty great as a c'tan power delivery system even if its weapons aren't good. I imagine a lot of custodes players will be calling foul on Time's Arrow.

Delicious, two MWBD for the stormlord. They also made it so MWBD works on all necrons not just friendly dynasty ones. Or that's just an imhotek ability. Tomb world deploy is still disappointing, there is nothing in there that lets them move after getting set up.

So far, most of the news has been pretty underwhelming. We'll see if it changes in context, but right now I don't see myself dusting of my Necrons just yet.

Tomb Blade Mephrit spam is real. Dare I say the new ”Dark Reapers”

The guy already said they dropped 11 points per model. And they gained Mephrit and passive -1 to hit from enemies. This is an amazing, amazing unit.

Though in all fairness taking anti-horde powers on a tesseract vault seems a touch overkill, you already have 20 tesla shots.

3 c’tan powers per turn the Tesseract can potentially do 20+ mortals in a turn on top of the by average 20 Tesla hits. It sure might be expensive but it does a lot of damage if it gets close.

 Grimgold wrote:
Though in all fairness taking anti-horde powers on a tesseract vault seems a touch overkill, you already have 20 tesla shots.

Well, when you have 200+ models worth of chaff to hose down it doesn't seem so silly.

Well to continue my roll as the wet blanket of math, the C'Tan powers are not that great, they are generally better than smite, but not usually by much:



ADPU = Average damage per unit, in this case in mortal wounds.

Sky of falling stars is the clear winner, with a tesseract able to drop 15 mortal wounds in a round fairly reliably. Antimatter meteor and TD Thunderbolt are in a dead heat for last, your opponent really has to setup poorly for TD thunderbolt to work well. In terms of upper limits Cosmic fire is the best, but once again it requires your opponent setup for it, so you could really have fun with a robby G style gunline, but in most cases you can expect much more modest results. Now for the real stinker, You can't duplicate powers between c'tan shards until all powers have been taken. If C'Tan shards get two powers per, that means you'll have to take some of the lame ones. Says it right in the image.

Yeah, I don't see anyone using Tomb World deployment. Or Monoliths in general. It's a shame that Games Workshop couldn't fix the issue with it.

OK, now I'm excited. Those two stratagems fix the Monolith issue and go a long way to helping out the Tomb World deployment thing. The Monolith one is pretty awesome for HtH infantry. I can't even wrap my head around all the ways that stratagem could be used yet. For 1CP? I like it a lot.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

Those are some nice stratagems. I like that they brought back the monoliths old teleport ability

Darsath wrote:
Yeah, I don't see anyone using Tomb World deployment. Or Monoliths in general. It's a shame that Games Workshop couldn't fix the issue with it.

Emergency invasion beam partially fixed it, you can set up a unit in TWD, drop a monolith or a night scythe behind enemy lines, as long as you can afford 1 cp and only have one unit in TWD you can always stick the landing. You don't take any damage so it's better than using say a stormraven. I imagine we'll see suicide night scythe as means of deploying lychguard and flayed ones.

 Grimgold wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Yeah, I don't see anyone using Tomb World deployment. Or Monoliths in general. It's a shame that Games Workshop couldn't fix the issue with it.

Emergency invasion beam partially fixed it, you can set up a unit in TWD, drop a monolith or a night scythe behind enemy lines, as long as you can afford 1 cp and only have one unit in TWD you can always stick the landing. You don't take any damage so it's better than using say a stormraven. I imagine we'll see suicide night scythe as means of deploying lychguard and flayed ones.

Keep in mind, obviously, that you can only do it with 1 Scythe. But investing 100+ points to deliver a unit in this way seems pretty counter-intuitive when you could use a Veil of Darkness and save a ton of points.

The language on the Dimensional Corridor Stratagem is a bit peculiar. Recall that Monoliths don’t have the Transport key word (still, it seems), so moving normally as a result of the Stratagem is unique... everything else arriving from the Monolith teleport will not be permitted to move.

Except Veil is one use only.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except Veil is one use only.

As is this stratagem.

nvm

Voidscythe?!

Darsath wrote:


Keep in mind, obviously, that you can only do it with 1 Scythe. But investing 100+ points to deliver a unit in this way seems pretty counter-intuitive when you could use a Veil of Darkness and save a ton of points.

Man it's so weird that you cannot move units who have deployed from the Tomb World... never realised it...