zedmeister wrote: Odd choices for "influencers". Nothing from KingFluff, Garagehammer Tactics, Sector Wargaming and Greetings from the Warp to name a few. They've been keeping the Heresy flame alive either through regular events or battle reports. Henry Steele was the only one on there that I'd count. His Legion painting vids are miles better quality than GWs offerings and he's been a fan for a while.
So it's like Total War Warhammer III in China, where CA gave the game to a bunch of popular streamers rather than actual members of the Chinese TW community?
zedmeister wrote: I have a feeling with the amount of 30k leaks over the last few months, a few GW bosses had run out of patience. He was just in the firing line.
I had not considered that. That could very well be the reason, or part of the reason.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't think anyone is asking for them to "make an exception". There should be consequences, but the complete binary "1 mistake = YOU'RE OUT!" strikes me as overly harsh.
Without knowing the details of the NDA, it is tricky to make a call on this. For all we know, it was set up as a one strike policy, which Miniac had agreed to when he signed it.
Predator/land raider would seem logical, since we know they're coming. And an assault squad/upgrade box would also make sense since we have the heavy/special weapons
My hope though is that they catch us with our pants down by showing off something not expected like plastic jetbikes or breachers.
They could have just had a chat / group discussion / whatever with everyone saying there had been a leak, that leak was identified and removed, GW takes its NDAs seriously and any further breaches by anyone will result in being removed from the event and potentially their entire contract terminated.
It's not about making an exception for Miniac, it's about handling it in a way that does the least amount of damage. Damage to GW, damage to content creators, damage to public perception.
But that sends the message that at future such events, you can get away with it. That's the issue here. You can't have a two-strike system or everyone will be looking for the perfect opportunity to "spend" their strike. Problem of your community being a bunch of gamers!
The normal redress would probably be to fine him. £1000 say. You still stay part of the programme, but there's a legit consequence for the mistake. It's not GW needs the money, but they need to have consequences in place. Flights, hotel, catering probably cost that anyway.
Can you imagine the uproar if they did that? GW takes £1000 from poor independent YouTuber for an honest mistake? It'd be far worse than the reaction to just dropping him.
deano2099 wrote: But that sends the message that at future such events, you can get away with it.
Does it though?
Again, we're not calling for him to have nothing happen, but there has to be a solution with a bit more balance. Something that is between "Nothing" and "BANISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!".
Snrub wrote: Was the plastic levi just hopeful speculation or was that rumour half way substantiated?
Speculation as it was put on Last Chance to Buy along with a bunch of other heresy models (Deimos Rhino, Spartan, Sicaran, generic contemptor) all of which are coming back as plastic. Leviathan is the only one not to have re-appeared as yet...
Snrub wrote: Was the plastic levi just hopeful speculation or was that rumour half way substantiated?
It's based on the observation that the Leviathan photographed for the new rulebook has been painted at the same time as the new plastics (determined by its basing matching the new plastics and not other "old" models).
It's far from a certainty, but it's a good theory.
They could have just had a chat / group discussion / whatever with everyone saying there had been a leak, that leak was identified and removed, GW takes its NDAs seriously and any further breaches by anyone will result in being removed from the event and potentially their entire contract terminated.
It's not about making an exception for Miniac, it's about handling it in a way that does the least amount of damage. Damage to GW, damage to content creators, damage to public perception.
But that sends the message that at future such events, you can get away with it. That's the issue here. You can't have a two-strike system or everyone will be looking for the perfect opportunity to "spend" their strike. Problem of your community being a bunch of gamers!
The normal redress would probably be to fine him. £1000 say. You still stay part of the programme, but there's a legit consequence for the mistake. It's not GW needs the money, but they need to have consequences in place. Flights, hotel, catering probably cost that anyway.
Can you imagine the uproar if they did that? GW takes £1000 from poor independent YouTuber for an honest mistake? It'd be far worse than the reaction to just dropping him.
Agreed, in my opinion GW had no option but to cut ties with the guy.
Can't really understand the sympathy being shown to the dude in all honesty. He signed a NDA and he broke the agreement.
I'm sure that the group of "influencers" who were invited to the event would have been reminded how important it was to GW for people not to leak anything until the official announcement, the excuse that he posted them to social media "accidentally" is cringeworthy.
I'd like to know what people think that GW should have done instead of cutting ties with him. There had to be a strong consequence to gaking all over the NDA, or else it would have been open season.
deano2099 wrote: But that sends the message that at future such events, you can get away with it.
Does it though?
Again, we're not calling for him to have nothing happen, but there has to be a solution with a bit more balance. Something that is between "Nothing" and "BANISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!".
zedmeister wrote:Speculation as it was put on Last Chance to Buy along with a bunch of other heresy models (Deimos Rhino, Spartan, Sicaran, generic contemptor) all of which are coming back as plastic. Leviathan is the only one not to have re-appeared as yet...
One could well be forgiven for coming to the conclusion that a plastic Levi is in the works based off that line of reasoning.
lord_blackfang wrote:It's based on the observation that the Leviathan photographed for the new rulebook has been painted at the same time as the new plastics (determined by its basing matching the new plastics and not other "old" models).
Is that picture floating around by chance? I haven't seen much of anything leaked for the new rulebook. Supposedly there's most of it been seen already.
It's far from a certainty, but it's a good theory.
It's as solid a theory as anything else I guess. Thinking about it, I can't say i've ever known GW to rebase an old model to match a current/updated line.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't think anyone is asking for them to "make an exception". There should be consequences, but the complete binary "1 mistake = YOU'RE OUT!" strikes me as overly harsh.
Arguably it was strike 2 when he shared the HH box while it was under NDA with someone not under NDA to have that person paint the models for the event instead.
deano2099 wrote: But that sends the message that at future such events, you can get away with it.
I disagree. You're thinking about this from the perspective of a gamer instead of a business engaging with other businesses.
You can't have a two-strike system or everyone will be looking for the perfect opportunity to "spend" their strike. Problem of your community being a bunch of gamers!
I didn't suggest a two strike system, what I was suggested was to let EVERYONE know (i.e. all the other content creators) that there's been a leak and it warn them all if there's any further breaches the consequences will be X regardless of who does it. You don't just give everyone a free "strike".
It's not a game with a rulebook being played by a bunch of gamers, they are a company with a contract and it's a business engagement.
If they wanted to go beyond "warning" into "punishment" there are levels of reprimand that are more appropriate. Maybe suspend them from future releases for X amount of time, maybe they don't get to go to certain parts of the event, maybe they can't bring their phone into the event, maybe they can't use footage taken in Warhammer World like the other creators were able to do.
But it largely comes down to how Miniac responds to them, you don't START by bringing out the noose, you take them aside and start a polite chat letting them know what they did wrong and that they immediately have to take down those posts and then you gauge the response. If Miniac was being a dick about it then terminating the agreement was probably the right move, if he was apologetic and remorseful then you try and salvage the relationship instead of risking the additional hit of having a channel with over 300k subscribers being left with a bad taste in their mouth.
Your £1000 fine idea I think is a terrible because they are a private company which makes "fining" someone sketchy and difficult to enforce, even if it's written into the NDA that there would be a fine I think it'd be sketchy and would likely have to go through some level of litigation and settlement. Maybe if they were paying Miniac (maybe they are?) then there would be an avenue? I dunno, not a lawyer.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't think anyone is asking for them to "make an exception". There should be consequences, but the complete binary "1 mistake = YOU'RE OUT!" strikes me as overly harsh.
Arguably it was strike 2 when he shared the HH box while it was under NDA with someone not under NDA to have that person paint the models for the event instead.
That isn't "arguable" it's "speculation". Yes, it would have been a breach if he shared it in a way that was not outlined in the NDA, but we have no evidence one way or the other.
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Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Can't really understand the sympathy being shown to the dude in all honesty. He signed a NDA and he broke the agreement.
If the same thing happened to you do you think you'd be left with a bad taste in your mouth too?
...the excuse that he posted them to social media "accidentally" is cringeworthy.
On the flip side, what did he have to gain by posting some pics of models a few days early then immediately deleting the posts? He's not going to gain any additional followers, he's not selling it for money, I would HOPE that he's not so immature to think that he was doing it for street cred or something silly like that (if he is then GW is probably right for terminating it).
He was likely just being careless and it likely caused GW no damages whatsoever.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Can't really understand the sympathy being shown to the dude in all honesty. He signed a NDA and he broke the agreement.
If the same thing happened to you do you think you'd be left with a bad taste in your mouth too?
If I broke an agreement in the manner reported I would like to think that I would take responsibilty for it, I certainly wouldn't be looking for sympathy.
...the excuse that he posted them to social media "accidentally" is cringeworthy.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: On the flip side, what did he have to gain by posting some pics of models a few days early then immediately deleting the posts? He's not going to gain any additional followers, he's not selling it for money, I would HOPE that he's not so immature to think that he was doing it for street cred or something silly like that (if he is then GW is probably right for terminating it).
He was likely just being careless and it likely caused GW no damages whatsoever.
I guess he was trying to gain more popularity/notoriety? I don't know how their world works, I'm not going to pretend to know how these people think, they are alien to me
Ultimately I guess it comes down to whether or not you believe that his actions were accidental or not, GW certainly didn't.
They have shown that they won't tolerate leaks, and that a single influencer is just not that important to their business in the overall scheme of things
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Valrak is saying the £180/€225 price tag is now confirmed. Pre-order 4th June, release 18th June.
zedmeister wrote: Odd choices for "influencers". Nothing from KingFluff, Garagehammer Tactics, Sector Wargaming and Greetings from the Warp to name a few. They've been keeping the Heresy flame alive either through regular events or battle reports. Henry Steele was the only one on there that I'd count. His Legion painting vids are miles better quality than GWs offerings and he's been a fan for a while.
I think GW thought here would be to bring in new fans by bringing in influencers not known for their current love of all things HH or even GW. Try to broaden that reach so to speak.
Re: Assault Squads, I still think it's going to just be an upgrade box of some type like with the Special / Heavy weapons boxes. GW has discovered a way to get people to buy more boxes per squad while getting customer buy in on the way they are doing it.
tneva82 wrote: Well what's the view count atm for gw and non-gw videos?
A cursory glance shows that for his 16 highest viewed videos, 7 explicitly name GW brands/products. He seems to do a lot of beginner aimed videos about general hobby topics, like painting theory or 3D printing.
Whatever is showcased today is something that would be in the first wave of so of releases, I would expect. Did they already do articles for the Kratos, Sicaran, and Rhino? Whatever's left out of those is my guess.
Yeah, I'm not shy about complaining about GW prices, but if you can think of the price as what you would have paid for the equivalent Marine models twenty years ago and get the Terminators for free, in the context of GW's crazy prices of today that box is good value.
Billicus wrote: Coming from paying forge world prices I'm thrilled about it. Bargain
Yeah, I feel that. Thanks to some back pay from a pay increase at work I had some extra cash ready so I ordered some stuff for Night Lords. 23 models (10 of the termis, 10 Raptors, 1 each of the Praetors and Curze) (and no Sevatar because he's still out of stock)) and two sets of chainglaives for when the box drops and it ran me over 600USD so any discount is appreciated.
Seriously though, when they announced it would be less than $300 (so likely $299) and then Ash Wastes went up for $299, I was entirely put off purchasing Ash Wastes. Its not near the same level of content for the same price.
The HH box shows they can be reasonably expensive rather than ridiculously expensive.
I've been critical of the writing in these army overviews, but I thought today's was really well done. Some cheeky asides, humorous anticipations of criticism, and knowing in-jokes, e.g. Magnus did *something* wrong.
This one also benefited from a really nice army paint job. It's a slight variation from the normal pattern, but only just slightly and was executed to a solid standard. Kudos to all involved!
The lack of color scheme diversity for the founding legions hurts a little here- the painted box army looks like 1st/2nd edition blood angels at that zoom distance. At least the beakies do- its the bright primary colors red.
The one thing about these articles that I really like is the name drops for 'Old Terra' placenames. It makes me want a Unification Wars game.
That said, it'll be interesting to see the price of the beakies kit, as I wouldn't mind a few beakies as tactials in other games such as Rogue Trader or Kill Team.
That said, it'll be interesting to see the price of the beakies kit, as I wouldn't mind a few beakies as tactials in other games such as Rogue Trader or Kill Team.
Good news! With 40 in each box and discount retailers selling the box for as little as £135, for the rest of this year you're not going to be able to visit ebay without being flooded by cheap beakies.
I think it's a bit of a shame they're only showing these upgrade kits as the individual bits, rather than in use on the actual models they're supposed to be upgrades to.
Really nice...looking forward to seeing the Emperor's Children and the Space Wolves.
Frankly, the direction I am seeing from the Horus Heresy launch is making me less and less interested in picking up anything new for 40K, and just focusing on my 30K addiction for some time.
Especially if we start seeing some Dark Mechanicum releases.
I love the "I've seen things, man!" face they painted on the bare head. Pretty nice helmets, too. They'd look the business on all kinds of Chaosy marines, IMO
Oh my, this presages great things. Eighteen upgrade kits, all presumably with cross compatibility between several different legions, this is gonna be great (though still, ofc, not fully posable!!!).
Nazrak wrote: I think it's a bit of a shame they're only showing these upgrade kits as the individual bits, rather than in use on the actual models they're supposed to be upgrades to.
This. Would it kill them to have at least one model wearing one of these helmets?
Well, that's two weeks in a row of "new heads" for 30KThursday. I now seriously question if there are any more plastic models beyond what we've been shown.
Racerguy180 wrote: Well my 30k Salamanders army was jacked @ 0245 this morning so now I need a bunch more minis than I had originally intended with the new stuff.
The thing I'm most pissed about is my RTB-01 squad I've had since 1990...and all the OOPFW upgrades/torsos/etc
Racerguy180 wrote: Well my 30k Salamanders army was jacked @ 0245 this morning so now I need a bunch more minis than I had originally intended with the new stuff.
The thing I'm most pissed about is my RTB-01 squad I've had since 1990...and all the OOPFW upgrades/torsos/etc
Oh my condolences. Who even steals minis?
It probably has to do something with people online buying OOP minis for crazy prices.
Off-topic, I'm still occasionally irritated about when someone stole my chaos lord (that my little teen self had put who knows how many hours into converting/painting) off a store gaming table...
Racerguy180 wrote: Well my 30k Salamanders army was jacked @ 0245 this morning so now I need a bunch more minis than I had originally intended with the new stuff.
The thing I'm most pissed about is my RTB-01 squad I've had since 1990...and all the OOPFW upgrades/torsos/etc
Oh my condolences. Who even steals minis?
Often been case of grabbing carry case expecting something more common target for thefts. Might been case here too and thief atm not too happy about result either
This is why if I ever make a case I’m putting a radio transmitter in there, not to track it, but to detonate the c4 and shrapnel surprise that’s hidden in the lid, taking out whoever stole it.
Racerguy180 wrote: Well my 30k Salamanders army was jacked @ 0245 this morning so now I need a bunch more minis than I had originally intended with the new stuff.
The thing I'm most pissed about is my RTB-01 squad I've had since 1990...and all the OOPFW upgrades/torsos/etc
Oh my condolences. Who even steals minis?
They hit 7 cars within 3 streets of mine.
I can only hope they looked inside the beat up cardboard box, saw what it was and dumped it somewhere close by...
Racerguy180 wrote: Well my 30k Salamanders army was jacked @ 0245 this morning so now I need a bunch more minis than I had originally intended with the new stuff.
The thing I'm most pissed about is my RTB-01 squad I've had since 1990...and all the OOPFW upgrades/torsos/etc
Oh my condolences. Who even steals minis?
They hit 7 cars within 3 streets of mine.
I can only hope they looked inside the beat up cardboard box, saw what it was and dumped it somewhere close by...
Please check local facebook markets, ebay, etc. Sometimes armies that get stolen end up on marketplaces : (
Racerguy180 wrote: Well my 30k Salamanders army was jacked @ 0245 this morning so now I need a bunch more minis than I had originally intended with the new stuff.
The thing I'm most pissed about is my RTB-01 squad I've had since 1990...and all the OOPFW upgrades/torsos/etc
Oh my condolences. Who even steals minis?
They hit 7 cars within 3 streets of mine.
I can only hope they looked inside the beat up cardboard box, saw what it was and dumped it somewhere close by...
Please check local facebook markets, ebay, etc. Sometimes armies that get stolen end up on marketplaces : (
The launch box is a loss leader though in GW’s case their margin is so insane that they will still make a great profit on it.
I think Discourse Miniatures pretty much nailed it as she summed up GW’s business plan with Horus Heresy that it is basically GW coming up with a way to get a large segment of their current customers to buy more space marines (re-monitize is the term she used), with an added twist this time in the form of a much heavier focus on plastic DLC, i.e. the upgrade kits.
Buy the marines, buy the weapons sets, buy the legion specific sets = spend way more on a 30K space marine squad than what you currently spend on the 40k equivalent space marine squad (which you probably already had enough for an army.....or 3 or 4 armies )
My guess is that, like with Necromunda, plastic Legion sprues might be a possibility depending on the sales of these resin packs but likely only after most of the core plastic range is out.
Oh they're resin? Then I agree, 100% I will not be buying official upgrades sets from Forgeworld, I'll print alternates myself or I'll import from the East.
Togusa wrote: Well, that's two weeks in a row of "new heads" for 30KThursday. I now seriously question if there are any more plastic models beyond what we've been shown.
They probably want people focused on the stuff that's releasing soon. GW has a thing about not distracting people with 'what's later' rather than 'what's immediate'
The heads and pads all tie into the way they're marketing the big box, so its more focus on the now.
---
That's said, I don't like these heads. Remind me too much of the power armor in the evil American Empire in RIFTS or some obscure stormtrooper variant.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I love the "I've seen things, man!" face they painted on the bare head. Pretty nice helmets, too. They'd look the business on all kinds of Chaosy marines, IMO
I want to put Mr. SEEN THINGS in a unit with All Smiles from the CSM kill-team sprue. Just feels like it would be a perfect match.
Togusa wrote: Well, that's two weeks in a row of "new heads" for 30KThursday. I now seriously question if there are any more plastic models beyond what we've been shown.
Almost certainly they are showing only items that will launch during the Horus Heresy launch window, and then they will preview the items coming after the Launch box.
Lord of Deeds wrote: I think Discourse Miniatures pretty much nailed it as she summed up GW’s business plan with Horus Heresy that it is basically GW coming up with a way to get a large segment of their current customers to buy more space marines (re-monitize is the term she used), with an added twist this time in the form of a much heavier focus on plastic DLC, i.e. the upgrade kits.
Buy the marines, buy the weapons sets, buy the legion specific sets = spend way more on a 30K space marine squad than what you currently spend on the 40k equivalent space marine squad (which you probably already had enough for an army.....or 3 or 4 armies )
I mean I made that point about Primaris years ago, but at least with HH the entry cost is getting cheaper because they were already selling you this stuff in resin for more than it'll be in plastic.
Voss wrote: The lack of color scheme diversity for the founding legions hurts a little here- the painted box army looks like 1st/2nd edition blood angels at that zoom distance. At least the beakies do- its the bright primary colors red.
The one thing about these articles that I really like is the name drops for 'Old Terra' placenames. It makes me want a Unification Wars game.
Remember the legions are not SM chapters but much larger organizations. Therefore having slight alterations of uniforms is a given. Coming up with unique colour schemes is encouraged even in HH. Also remember back during the RT era where SM were portrayed with camo schemes. Just think outside the box.
Those MKVI with Sons of Horus heads do look a bit odd.
I think it's the combination of the lack of trim on the armour and the chaosy-looking helmet, the two don't seem to gel.
I'm sure that there's plenty of MKVI that have been painted or modelled as chaos over the years, but for me it looks way better on loyalists. I think it would look excellent with the FW Blood Angels helmet upgrades.
Togusa wrote: Well, that's two weeks in a row of "new heads" for 30KThursday. I now seriously question if there are any more plastic models beyond what we've been shown.
They probably want people focused on the stuff that's releasing soon. GW has a thing about not distracting people with 'what's later' rather than 'what's immediate'
The heads and pads all tie into the way they're marketing the big box, so its more focus on the now.
---
That's said, I don't like these heads. Remind me too much of the power armor in the evil American Empire in RIFTS or some obscure stormtrooper variant.
I hadn't considered it, but I wonder if there will be a wave 2 within 6 months to a year?
Oh, I already have the hit squad out looking...the entire local multiple flgs community is fething pissed. Whomever jacked it, made a fair amount of enemies.
It's really my fault for leaving it in the car when I got home from playing @ the FLGS last night.
Togusa wrote: Well, that's two weeks in a row of "new heads" for 30KThursday. I now seriously question if there are any more plastic models beyond what we've been shown.
They probably want people focused on the stuff that's releasing soon. GW has a thing about not distracting people with 'what's later' rather than 'what's immediate'
The heads and pads all tie into the way they're marketing the big box, so its more focus on the now.
---
That's said, I don't like these heads. Remind me too much of the power armor in the evil American Empire in RIFTS or some obscure stormtrooper variant.
Heh, they do look a lot like SAMAS helmets, don't they? Now I won't be able to get that out of my head. And it'll be worse once we see them on jump pack equipped models. Thanks Voss.
I hadn't considered it, but I wonder if there will be a wave 2 within 6 months to a year?
Probably even before that. I suspect there’ll be something at least 3 months after the initial wave in line with most of the modern specialist games, if not sooner due to it being Space Marines
Togusa wrote: Well, that's two weeks in a row of "new heads" for 30KThursday. I now seriously question if there are any more plastic models beyond what we've been shown.
They probably want people focused on the stuff that's releasing soon. GW has a thing about not distracting people with 'what's later' rather than 'what's immediate'
The heads and pads all tie into the way they're marketing the big box, so its more focus on the now.
---
That's said, I don't like these heads. Remind me too much of the power armor in the evil American Empire in RIFTS or some obscure stormtrooper variant.
I hadn't considered it, but I wonder if there will be a wave 2 within 6 months to a year?
Well, the Box set is first, then I guess wave 1 would be the large squads, alternate contemptor, kratos, sicaran, and deimos predator shown on the box insert alongside weapon packs. Land Raider and Leviathan dread are pretty likely candidates for a wave 2, alongside things like melee loadouts. Landspeeders and bikers would also be reasonable.
I hadn't considered it, but I wonder if there will be a wave 2 within 6 months to a year?
I don't doubt it. This summer will be the big box, Sicaran, Kratos, Deimos Rhino, the repackaged infantry kits and the various weapon packs. Then a pause while the Leagues of Votann come out. I expect more Heresy no later than next winter, though I wouldn't be surprised if they snuck one more release into 2022, perhaps an assault or destroyer squad box.
So what are peoples thoughts on the rumours that some of this Heresy stuff will be direct only, most specifically the Kratos?
Wasn't really expecting that, obviously knew the pads\helmets most likely would be as they're Forge World, but thought the main plastic kits would probably be generally available, at least initially.
Tavis75 wrote: So what are peoples thoughts on the rumours that some of this Heresy stuff will be direct only, most specifically the Kratos?
Wasn't really expecting that, obviously knew the pads\helmets most likely would be as they're Forge World, but thought the main plastic kits would probably be generally available, at least initially.
If third party retail can't get it, that means no extra discounts on top of MSRP, which does of course suck. Being direct-only reminds me of the old Specialist Games business model, back in the Epic: Armageddon and Necromunda: Underhive days, and HH being based on 7th ed. and aimed more at veteran hobbyists would not be inconsistent with that - it's not a game they're expecting to sell a lot to walk-ins.
Tavis75 wrote: So what are peoples thoughts on the rumours that some of this Heresy stuff will be direct only, most specifically the Kratos?
Wasn't really expecting that, obviously knew the pads\helmets most likely would be as they're Forge World, but thought the main plastic kits would probably be generally available, at least initially.
Payingfull retail for GW is an instant deal breaker IMHO
World Eaters (40k)
Necromunda (vehicles, new faction,ect)
Hashut (AoS)
An likely 10th in summertime (EC vs AM)
Somewhere in there they will fit mor HH units and vehicles. kits to adapt terminators to specific legions and so on.
That assumes then leagues will come winter earliest if that's all you think come after leagues for aos is hashut. We know there will be 2 destructions(gloomspite and ogors being obvious candinate), chaos(tzeentch has high chance) and order(lumineth being good candinate) in fall.
In regards to the upgrade packs, specifically the heads, one thing that bugs me is that you only get 9 regular helmeted heads, so if you're building a unit of 20 and want to use the heads on all of them then you have to use one of the un-helmeted heads. I guess the set is 3 repeated "sprues" of the helmeted head and one "sprue" with the bare\sergeant head, would have seemed like they could have added an additional helmeted head onto the sergeant "sprue".
Tavis75 wrote: In regards to the upgrade packs, specifically the heads, one thing that bugs me is that you only get 9 regular helmeted heads, so if you're building a unit of 20 and want to use the heads on all of them then you have to use one of the un-helmeted heads. I guess the set is 3 repeated "sprues" of the helmeted head and one "sprue" with the bare\sergeant head, would have seemed like they could have added an additional helmeted head onto the sergeant "sprue".
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Have you seen the Imperial Guard weapon team tutorial?
It really is something else. IIRC, they deleted it when it was first uploaded because of the backlash and then reuploaded it.
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Have you seen the Imperial Guard weapon team tutorial?
It really is something else. IIRC, they deleted it when it was first uploaded because of the backlash and then reuploaded it.
Jesus, that's the absolute lowest effort i've ever seen put into a painting tutorial. Does it even count as one, by this point?
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Have you seen the Imperial Guard weapon team tutorial?
It really is something else. IIRC, they deleted it when it was first uploaded because of the backlash and then reuploaded it.
What you expect for one coat and done product line? Point of product being one coat and move to next colour.
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Really? I didn't think it was even the worst of the HH painting videos we've seen. It's simple but rather clean and gets a decent table top model.
themonk wrote: We've got some real Golden Demon finalists on this thread.
I sincerly believe there is not a single person in this thread capable of painting any worse than that HWT video. That's a real low effort one.
Maybe I've seen too many "pro painted" listings on ebay, but I fail to see anything truly wrong with the HH videos. They're designed to be easy to follow for beginner painters, (aka GW's "battle ready" level of paint job). You can easily use these as a base to make them "Parade Ready" or higher with a little extra effort.
And if these aren't doing it for you, it's free content and there are dozens of others who provide the results you're looking for if these don't do it for you so I basically just don't see the issue with the videos. I'm just happy they're doing them for every legion considering they don't even do videos for every subfaction in a codex at launch.
GaroRobe wrote: Does this count as a tutorial? Remember when GW told people that they don't need to prime models and that using Abaddon Black is good enough?
That's cute but I've seen a Tau box with the hobby guide on the back clearly depicting someone undercoating a Devilfish white with a fine detail brush
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Have you seen the Imperial Guard weapon team tutorial?
It really is something else. IIRC, they deleted it when it was first uploaded because of the backlash and then reuploaded it.
Wow...Im not a good painter, and hardly even cares if people paint good or not as long as they paint...
But coming out of GW as a painting guide, that is just horrendous.
I honestly don't think the Son of Horus looks bad, it looks like a pretty decent tabletop standard that most people could achieve in a relatively short amount of time.
That Heavy Weapons team on the other hand......wooof.....that thing is awful.....probably should have left that video removed.
Please can we stop crying endlessly about these paint jobs. Everyone in the thread gets it, some of you people aren't happy with them. It's clogging up the thread something awful and making it harder to browse for new information and leaks.
I don't like golf. I think it's stupid. But I don't spend 10% of my day going around telling anyone who will listen about the dangers of golf. I just simply talk about other things. Please let's just do the same with these tutorials.
The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Are you kidding?
That's one of the few half decent tutorials in the series. It looks better than the majority of models you're likely to see at the local gaming club / store and it can be painted quickly enough that a normal person might actually have a chance of getting an army completed. Versus their normal style of painting that results in a mediocre paint job that takes an excessively long time to paint.
I can certainly complain about it, for good drybrushing tutorials the Artis Opus channel is currently the place to go, but at least it's heading in the right direction for me (the right direction either being fast to paint table top quality, or high quality paint jobs).
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Togusa wrote: Please can we stop crying endlessly about these paint jobs. Everyone in the thread gets it, some of you people aren't happy with them. It's clogging up the thread something awful and making it harder to browse for new information and leaks.
I don't like golf. I think it's stupid. But I don't spend 10% of my day going around telling anyone who will listen about the dangers of golf. I just simply talk about other things. Please let's just do the same with these tutorials.
I would suggest if you don't like clogged up news threads you look for your news somewhere that isn't Dakka
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
Ahem..
Spoiler:
I'll stop there because there are loads of FW Character models and HQs that are very much in the same vein as the new Praetors.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
I don't know, recent HH relases are pretty damn detailed.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
I agree with the sentiment, they do this a lot, but in this case I think they are treading the line properly.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
I agree. I don't know if its the details exactly - but I feel an awful lot of paint jobs seem to want the power armour, cloak, alternate colour on shoulder pad and bling (and possibly weapons) to all simultaneously pop. Which, as you say, results in everything appealing for your attention so it feels like a noisy mess.
Whereas the rest of the models in the box are largely "notice the one or two tone armour popping" and that's it.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
I already expressed my opinion that the praetor models do not respect the original minimalist desgn language of the MKVI armour. This is also what is off about them, too busy.
I'm thinking the designers expect people to heavily kitbash/convert these in order to make em their own
that's the absolute worst painting guide, I have ever seen on Warhammer TV, or even on youtube.... That guy's tutotials are bad but that on tops everything.
The Girl with the Blood Angels and Ultramarines is the best of their Video painters and the only one how can competive with Duncan from WHTV.
Are you kidding?
That's one of the few half decent tutorials in the series. It looks better than the majority of models you're likely to see at the local gaming club / store and it can be painted quickly enough that a normal person might actually have a chance of getting an army completed. Versus their normal style of painting that results in a mediocre paint job that takes an excessively long time to paint.
I can certainly complain about it, for good drybrushing tutorials the Artis Opus channel is currently the place to go, but at least it's heading in the right direction for me (the right direction either being fast to paint table top quality, or high quality paint jobs).
Agreed. I wouldn't paint this way, but it actually offers something quick and achievable. The other ones are really inefficient.
It's good battle ready standard. Not something to aim for winninr paint competition but level that will enchance gaming experience. Looks like gw's goal archieved
It’s….it’s almost as if GW are focussing on making the various parts of the wider hobby as accessible as possible, hence not arsing about with intricate painting tutorials which set a false perception of minimum standard….
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s….it’s almost as if GW are focussing on making the various parts of the wider hobby as accessible as possible, hence not arsing about with intricate painting tutorials which set a false perception of minimum standard….
There used to be the terminology of a 1 foot model or a 2 foot model or a 4 foot model, indicating that it looks good viewed from 1 foot or 2 feet or 4 feet. I'd say that paint job is good for a 2 footer, and maybe a 1 footer if the drybrush is done a bit smoother and maybe in a couple of steps. It's not a "take photo with macro lens and display on a 32" computer monitor" quality model, but most people aren't doing that.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
I already expressed my opinion that the praetor models do not respect the original minimalist desgn language of the MKVI armour. This is also what is off about them, too busy.
I'm thinking the designers expect people to heavily kitbash/convert these in order to make em their own
Sure. They designed them with the idea no one would like them. Riiiight.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: The more I look at the praetor models, the more it feels they clash horribly with everything else in the release and, arguably, FW's other character releases.
They suffer from GW's obsession with sticking as many details on a model as possible. Every part of the model is competing for your attention and it comes across as a sea of noise. Less is more foiks.
I already expressed my opinion that the praetor models do not respect the original minimalist desgn language of the MKVI armour. This is also what is off about them, too busy.
I'm thinking the designers expect people to heavily kitbash/convert these in order to make em their own
Sure. They designed them with the idea no one would like them. Riiiight.
personaly I think if they intended heavy kitbashing they would have made them much more minimalist. early primaris marines where designed fairly minimalist for just that purpose
But on the table they'll look good. I'd add some physical battle damage to the models before priming so they pop without needing ornamentation overload.
I'm interested to compare the 18ths video to how I do them...
Currently feeling restrained pessimism and unbridled joy.
But adding up what was stolen yesterday is rather deflating.
I like the Praetors, but I understand the issue some people have. It isn't really the amount of bling I don't think, it's that by the time a marine hits praetor level, each legion has a fairly distinct design language and the new plastic praetors both dont match existing legions but also have their own distinct florishes, like they belong to a 19th(21st) Legion
Sword Praetor can sorta fit into Imperial Fists or White Scars, but the bubble shoulder pads and vented trim stand out, and while the axe praetor has elements in common with death guard and sons of horus, it also has the vented trims and more elaborate armor edging. The details are fine on their own, but trying to picture them as a specific legion gives an uncanny valley effect.
Marshal Loss wrote: Leaks ahoy. Some great stuff, and some less than great stuff (e.g. confirmation of no jump packs for Palatines, Reavers, etc)
*sigh* And it's all just legion-specific stuff. The only thing I really need to know is whether or not standard breacher squads can take all volkite chargers like the older leaks had. Don't want to buy and build 40 volkite-armed breachers until I know for certain.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I like the Praetors, but I understand the issue some people have. It isn't really the amount of bling I don't think, it's that by the time a marine hits praetor level, each legion has a fairly distinct design language and the new plastic praetors both dont match existing legions but also have their own distinct florishes.
Sword Praetor can sorta fit into Imperial Fists or White Scars, but the bubble shoulder pads and vented trim stand out, and while the axe praetor has elements in common with death guard and sons of horus, it also has the vented trims and more elaborate armor edging. The details are fine on their own, but trying to picture them as a specific legion gives an uncanny valley effect.
Speak for yourself, I always wanted some XIth legion Praetors
Marshal Loss wrote: Leaks ahoy. Some great stuff, and some less than great stuff (e.g. confirmation of no jump packs for Palatines, Reavers, etc)
*sigh* And it's all just legion-specific stuff. The only thing I really need to know is whether or not standard breacher squads can take all volkite chargers like the older leaks had. Don't want to buy and build 40 volkite-armed breachers until I know for certain.
I'm curious if the Cataphratcii kept their datasheet from the leaks, or if they are getting the more limited one that was in the starter box.
Someone painted up the model using the GW tutorial and I think it came out nicely.
That image is taken from the GW video.
You can rescale that image so that it appears the size of an actual model, so if you're viewing this on a 96 dpi screen which is pretty typical (or a screen scaled to be equivalent to 96 dpi) this is how big the model is in reality...
Many years ago (pre-Dakka) I had some pics of my models on the internet, and one day I showed up to the club and a friend saw the models in person that he'd seen on the internet and commented that they looked heaps better in person and the flaws that were obvious in the photos or blends that looked rough in the photos weren't noticeable on the table top. It made me realise if I'm not painting for a competition it's fine to use stuff that maybe doesn't look great in photos.
Someone painted up the model using the GW tutorial and I think it came out nicely.
That image is taken from the GW video.
You can rescale that image so that it appears the size of an actual model, so if you're viewing this on a 96 dpi screen which is pretty typical (or a screen scaled to be equivalent to 96 dpi) this is how big the model is in reality...
Many years ago (pre-Dakka) I had some pics of my models on the internet, and one day I showed up to the club and a friend saw the models in person that he'd seen on the internet and commented that they looked heaps better in person and the flaws that were obvious in the photos or blends that looked rough in the photos weren't noticeable on the table top. It made me realise if I'm not painting for a competition it's fine to use stuff that maybe doesn't look great in photos.
yeah I can belive it, I'll paint a mini that looks great, take a picture and suddenly the flaws are massivly apparent
Shame the Dark Angel Wing rules don't stack on units. Just an hour or so before the leak I had done the math and realized that I could use Ironwing Tactical Squads with Stormwing Centurions for all my anti-tank needs (assuming my opponent only brought rhinos and land speeders and conveniently parked them backwards, but I was still excited about fury of the legioning 20 rerollable 2+ to hit bolters on a moderately up-armored taxi).
The Ironwing part wasn't even necessary, but it's the principle of the thing that matters. No point being silly if I can't be super silly.
Marshal Loss wrote: Leaks ahoy. Some great stuff, and some less than great stuff (e.g. confirmation of no jump packs for Palatines, Reavers, etc)
What are the odds we see a separate Horus Ascended model in the near future, now they've run out of Primarchs to do?
Pretty much guaranteed. It was always FW's plan to do alternate sculpts for various Primarchs, and the WHC article accompanying the HH2.0 trailer explicitly singled out how Horus in the trailer look different from the model they currently sold. It'll happen - maybe timed to accompany the final Siege novel, whenever that is. There were ideas floated for a Vengeful Spirit diorama at HH Weekenders in years gone by
xttz wrote: What are the odds we see a separate Horus Ascended model in the near future, now they've run out of Primarchs to do?
If I recall correctly, there was some talk of daemon primarchs being on a to-do list at one of the Heresy Weekends/Games Days/etc a few years ago*. Pretty sure it was before Alan Bligh died though, so who knows how/if things might have changed after that. If they are still in the pipeline then I suppose a juiced up Horus wouldn't be off the cards either.
*I could well be misremembering this. It might have been wishlisting/speculation.
xttz wrote: What are the odds we see a separate Horus Ascended model in the near future, now they've run out of Primarchs to do?
If I recall correctly, there was some talk of daemon primarchs being on a to-do list at one of the Heresy Weekends/Games Days/etc a few years ago*. Pretty sure it was before Alan Bligh died though, so who knows how/if things might have changed after that. If they are still in the pipeline then I suppose a juiced up Horus wouldn't be off the cards either.
*I could well be misremembering this. It might have been wishlisting/speculation.
Waaaay back when HH first launched in 2012. However, since then we’ve received Daemon Primarchs in 40K, so it may well be that idea was transferred over.
Wonder if Angron's release will be tied into both 30k and 40k. It Would help split up the initial spike of new WE models needed for 40k if that big Primarch kit was released for Heresy.
Was there any talk of daemon primarch rules in the HH? Mortarion was a daemon by the time of the Seige, as was Fulgrim, Angron. The former has a model, so maybe they could tie it all together
TBF Horus Ascended is like the Emperor. A cool-looking model but so powerful that it wouldn't work in-game or it would be so toned down it wouldn't be worth it.
Gert wrote: TBF Horus Ascended is like the Emperor. A cool-looking model but so powerful that it wouldn't work in-game or it would be so toned down it wouldn't be worth it.
They definitely had plans to do the Emperor. He was referenced in the Custodes rules.
Yeah, I remember that and I did wonder how FW would even make it work. He's more powerful than all the Primarchs, and when Magnus came out he was insanely good. So the Emperor would have to be either really expensive or toned down to a point where He wasn't represented well. Either way a generally unusable unit especially considering Custodes are already a very pricey army list.
Billicus wrote: They can make him like 6000 points if they want, it's their game - there's no rule saying he needs to have a place in the 2-3k club meta.
Exactly. They have rules and models for full-on titans. You are not going to see those at a random pick up game at the FlGS, but when the tables get pushed together for a mega battle, they can show up and have their place.
personaly I think if they intended heavy kitbashing they would have made them much more minimalist. early primaris marines where designed fairly minimalist for just that purpose
I find that both funny and sad, since I've seen far fewer Primaris kitbashes or conversions than was the norm for marine armies 10-20 years ago. It's something people don't seem to have an interest in anymore.
Billicus wrote: They can make him like 6000 points if they want, it's their game - there's no rule saying he needs to have a place in the 2-3k club meta.
Not sure where "club meta" comes into play here chief. It's more to do with the fact the Emperor would be unbeatable because with Him it's not hyperbole.
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Nevelon wrote: Exactly. They have rules and models for full-on titans. You are not going to see those at a random pick up game at the FlGS, but when the tables get pushed together for a mega battle, they can show up and have their place.
The Emperor should be similar.
Who said anything about pick-up games? I'm talking about the Emperor being too powerful to be represented in-game at all.
Billicus wrote: They can make him like 6000 points if they want, it's their game - there's no rule saying he needs to have a place in the 2-3k club meta.
Not sure where "club meta" comes into play here chief. It's more to do with the fact the Emperor would be unbeatable because with Him it's not hyperbole.
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Nevelon wrote: Exactly. They have rules and models for full-on titans. You are not going to see those at a random pick up game at the FlGS, but when the tables get pushed together for a mega battle, they can show up and have their place.
The Emperor should be similar.
Who said anything about pick-up games? I'm talking about the Emperor being too powerful to be represented in-game at all.
Obviously, he’s going to be a powerhouse. But if the scale of the game can deal with warlord titans, I think it can work with the Big E. Just take all the dials, turn them to 11, and point appropriately.
Gert wrote: Yeah, I remember that and I did wonder how FW would even make it work. He's more powerful than all the Primarchs, and when Magnus came out he was insanely good. So the Emperor would have to be either really expensive or toned down to a point where He wasn't represented well. Either way a generally unusable unit especially considering Custodes are already a very pricey army list.
How many points are the Primarchs? Do they often get used in regular (non-narrative) games?
I've never played a game of HH, I always assumed the Primarchs were too powerful for a regular game anyway, and were mostly there as display pieces, let alone the Emp.
Though I'd like to see the Emp even if he is just a display piece.... unless they mess him up in a disappointing way in which case I'd rather they don't do him
AllSeeingSkink wrote: How many points are the Primarchs? Do they often get used in regular (non-narrative) games?
I've never played a game of HH, I always assumed the Primarchs were too powerful for a regular game anyway, and were mostly there as display pieces, let alone the Emp.
Though I'd like to see the Emp even if he is just a display piece.... unless they mess him up in a disappointing way in which case I'd rather they don't do him
Primarchs are common enough and comfortably sit within the 25% rule for Lords of War for 2.5k games, heck Fulgrim is cheap enough to fit in a 2k game. They're good but not unbeatable.
Nevelon wrote: Obviously, he’s going to be a powerhouse. But if the scale of the game can deal with warlord titans, I think it can work with the Big E. Just take all the dials, turn them to 11, and point appropriately.
A Warlord Titan is just under 3k points but even then it's not exactly fun to try and fight one unless you have a huge amount of AT weaponry.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
Billicus wrote: They can make him like 6000 points if they want, it's their game - there's no rule saying he needs to have a place in the 2-3k club meta.
Not sure where "club meta" comes into play here chief. It's more to do with the fact the Emperor would be unbeatable because with Him it's not hyperbole.
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Nevelon wrote: Exactly. They have rules and models for full-on titans. You are not going to see those at a random pick up game at the FlGS, but when the tables get pushed together for a mega battle, they can show up and have their place.
The Emperor should be similar.
Who said anything about pick-up games? I'm talking about the Emperor being too powerful to be represented in-game at all.
My bad, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were making a reasonable point, not just being awkward - assumed your point was to do with his practicality as a gaming piece, not that he should be "the best evar because he's unbeatable". Anyway, there's no suggestion that a big E model is coming, so we don't need to worry about it either way, "chief".
Not sure what the snark is for. We're talking about the dude who could destroy Gargants singe handedly, who powered the Aegis Shield on Terra for months and still had enough power left over to unmake a Pantheon empowered Horus.
I would still expect to see an Emperor model when we get to the Siege of Terra. If nothing else, it would be part of a 2-part diorama piece with Horus to represent that final battle*. As far as rules go, I would expect them to be on par with a buffed up Horus for game purposes. It can be explained that the Emperor is channeling his excess power into other things at the time (creating a safe zone from Chaos around him, fending off Chaos within the Warp around him, powering the Astronomicon, powering various psychic defenses throughout Terra, etc.).
*Would they really give up the chance to do a modern version of this classic diorama?
My bad, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were making a reasonable point, not just being awkward - assumed your point was to do with his practicality as a gaming piece, not that he should be "the best evar because he's unbeatable". Anyway, there's no suggestion that a big E model is coming, so we don't need to worry about it either way, "chief".
There was that one time he was almost strangled to death by an Ork.
Marshal Loss wrote: Leaks ahoy. Some great stuff, and some less than great stuff (e.g. confirmation of no jump packs for Palatines, Reavers, etc)
Very sad to see Iron Warriors officially lose all of their special characters save Perturabo and havocs.
It's okay, you guys now have arguably the most under-costed terminators in the game.
Well, it's always nice to feel you don't matter. Very appropiate for the Iron Warrior's treatment by the Imperium
Honestly, I don't even care that much except for the tyrants because they have a special payload, but even if they deleted havocs I could have still fielded them as something.
As for the special characters, I play loyalist, so...
Gert wrote: Yeah, I remember that and I did wonder how FW would even make it work. He's more powerful than all the Primarchs, and when Magnus came out he was insanely good. So the Emperor would have to be either really expensive or toned down to a point where He wasn't represented well. Either way a generally unusable unit especially considering Custodes are already a very pricey army list.
How many points are the Primarchs? Do they often get used in regular (non-narrative) games?
I've never played a game of HH, I always assumed the Primarchs were too powerful for a regular game anyway, and were mostly there as display pieces, let alone the Emp.
Though I'd like to see the Emp even if he is just a display piece.... unless they mess him up in a disappointing way in which case I'd rather they don't do him
Primarchs are just very powerful special characters. All of them come with several USRs considered as default perks. Upon that they receive a few more which make them special. Do you want Mephiston running around in every 40K skirmish battle? Probably not. Same applies for the Primarchs. They better spend their time sitting in their office contemplating about daddy issues.
Emperor shouldn´t be represented on the field but GW will probably do him anyway. He is somewhat akin to Nagash which means too powerful to be playable. Should the Emperor really make it to the tabletop he will be nerfed to the ground just to give the opponent a chance to beat him.
Emperor shouldn´t be represented on the field but GW will probably do him anyway. He is somewhat akin to Nagash which means too powerful to be playable. Should the Emperor really make it to the tabletop he will be nerfed to the ground just to give the opponent a chance to beat him.
I hope so! If he cannot lose to an ork warboss it's not lore appropriate!
the emperor and horus ascended will be statted as space marine captains, but have a special rule that no model other then horus or the emperor can actually hurt them. You read it here first!
joking aside I'd be shocked if they didn't when approperate, provide deamon primarch stats for morty magnus and angron and use the GW plastic minis
Albertorius wrote: Well, it's always nice to feel you don't matter. Very appropiate for the Iron Warrior's treatment by the Imperium
Honestly, I don't even care that much except for the tyrants because they have a special payload, but even if they deleted havocs I could have still fielded them as something.
As for the special characters, I play loyalist, so...
You're not the only legion being hit by the no-models-no-rules beat-stick. I collect salamanders. We lost every special character excluding vulkan. Including one that actually did have a model.
Gert wrote: Not sure what the snark is for. We're talking about the dude who could destroy Gargants singe handedly, who powered the Aegis Shield on Terra for months and still had enough power left over to unmake a Pantheon empowered Horus.
Well fluffwise primarch should be unplayable in 30k game scale being unbeatable warp monsters so...
Billicus wrote: My bad, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were making a reasonable point, not just being awkward - assumed your point was to do with his practicality as a gaming piece, not that he should be "the best evar because he's unbeatable". Anyway, there's no suggestion that a big E model is coming, so we don't need to worry about it either way, "chief".
I mean, there is lol. He's actually got a rule associated with him in 1st edition. It's mentioned that if you take Jenetia Krole she has to be your warlord, unless you take Valdor who has to be your warlord, unless you take the Emperor in which case he has to be your warlord.
I actually like the third one more. Encompasses how dangerous and dire the situation is vs the second one that us, while epic in its own right, is more religious in connotation and makes sense as more, well, artwork I guess?
EviscerationPlague wrote: I actually like the third one more. Encompasses how dangerous and dire the situation is vs the second one that us, while epic in its own right, is more religious in connotation and makes sense as more, well, artwork I guess?
I guess it just bothers me because the Emperor looks like he's dancing.
EviscerationPlague wrote: I actually like the third one more. Encompasses how dangerous and dire the situation is vs the second one that us, while epic in its own right, is more religious in connotation and makes sense as more, well, artwork I guess?
I guess it just bothers me because the Emperor looks like he's dancing.
dancing and martial arts are closer related then you might think.
Crimson wrote: The black and white one is compositionally and thematically superior.
This B&W one?
Spoiler:
Yes. It has foreboding tone. The Emperor is leaning forwards, stepping towards Horus who looms menacingly above him, their eyes locked. Emperor's sword is raised and it intersect the picture in in and angle towards Horus. Black empty space behind them in the middle of the picture frames them effectively. The newer one has of course more detail, but compositionally it is much weaker; Emperor in particular just seems to be posing.
Well fluffwise primarch should be unplayable in 30k game scale being unbeatable warp monsters so...
The Primarchs aren't Warp monsters in HH and the ones that are in 40k have the weakness of not being mortal anymore and can be banished from the material plane for hundreds of years.
In the Heresy and Scouring alone Super Horus, Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Alpharius and Curze all die (multiple times in Vulkans case). Russ, regular Horus and the Khan all nearly die as well and Magnus comes pretty close when Russ shatters his soul.
I miss the days when not only did Horus have two lightning claws, but they were so rare that he was the only person to have two of them. That mace is lame.
Bob Lorgar wrote: I miss the days when not only did Horus have two lightning claws, but they were so rare that he was the only person to have two of them. That mace is lame.
That'd be a very, very long time ago, then. Close combat terminators were depicted with lightning claws all the way back in the 1991 catalogue (the first metal termies with the scalloped edges to their shoulder pads). Indeed, they were the only unit in the game that could take them in 2nd edition, and only in pairs.
Gert wrote: The Primarchs aren't Warp monsters in HH and the ones that are in 40k have the weakness of not being mortal anymore and can be banished from the material plane for hundreds of years.
In the Heresy and Scouring alone Super Horus, Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Alpharius and Curze all die (multiple times in Vulkans case). Russ, regular Horus and the Khan all nearly die as well and Magnus comes pretty close when Russ shatters his soul.
Well yes ... but don't they die to each other? I'm not sure what that proves about their power level relative to other entities.
Gert wrote: The Primarchs aren't Warp monsters in HH and the ones that are in 40k have the weakness of not being mortal anymore and can be banished from the material plane for hundreds of years.
In the Heresy and Scouring alone Super Horus, Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Alpharius and Curze all die (multiple times in Vulkans case). Russ, regular Horus and the Khan all nearly die as well and Magnus comes pretty close when Russ shatters his soul.
Well yes ... but don't they die to each other? I'm not sure what that proves about their power level relative to other entities.
Not all of them - Curze dies (as far as we know) to a Callidus Assassin.
Well fluffwise primarch should be unplayable in 30k game scale being unbeatable warp monsters so...
The Primarchs aren't Warp monsters in HH and the ones that are in 40k have the weakness of not being mortal anymore and can be banished from the material plane for hundreds of years.
In the Heresy and Scouring alone Super Horus, Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Alpharius and Curze all die (multiple times in Vulkans case). Russ, regular Horus and the Khan all nearly die as well and Magnus comes pretty close when Russ shatters his soul.
Eh primarch were created with warp power from the get-go...they always were warp monsters. They got power up from warp thanks to deal emperor made.
Fluffwise nothing short of primarch or equilavent should be able to take one down. Certainly not random squad of marines.
And funny you mention list of primarch killing primarch plus primarch doing suicide. You arb proving my point. Primarch already are on level of shouldn't be in game if you want them to be fluff truthful without literally having rule "may not be killed except by primarch and emperor" while being able to take out anything(including warlord titan. Happened in fluff".
They aren't just super strong humans. Warp flew through them from the start.
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Gert wrote: The Primarchs aren't Warp monsters in HH and the ones that are in 40k have the weakness of not being mortal anymore and can be banished from the material plane for hundreds of years.
In the Heresy and Scouring alone Super Horus, Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Alpharius and Curze all die (multiple times in Vulkans case). Russ, regular Horus and the Khan all nearly die as well and Magnus comes pretty close when Russ shatters his soul.
Well yes ... but don't they die to each other? I'm not sure what that proves about their power level relative to other entities.
Not all of them - Curze dies (as far as we know) to a Callidus Assassin.
Yea letting yourself be killed is such an awesome feat for assasin eh? Curze wasn't beaten by assasin. He let assasin kill him.
Well fluffwise primarch should be unplayable in 30k game scale being unbeatable warp monsters so...
The Primarchs aren't Warp monsters in HH and the ones that are in 40k have the weakness of not being mortal anymore and can be banished from the material plane for hundreds of years.
In the Heresy and Scouring alone Super Horus, Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Alpharius and Curze all die (multiple times in Vulkans case). Russ, regular Horus and the Khan all nearly die as well and Magnus comes pretty close when Russ shatters his soul.
Eh primarch were created with warp power from the get-go...they always were warp monsters. They got power up from warp thanks to deal emperor made.
Allegedly. According to the being whispering in Magnus’s ear. Because it’s totally impossible that a being 80,000 years old could have just figured some of that rune stuff out on his own.
Crimson wrote: The black and white one is compositionally and thematically superior.
This B&W one?
Spoiler:
Yes. It has foreboding tone. The Emperor is leaning forwards, stepping towards Horus who looms menacingly above him, their eyes locked. Emperor's sword is raised and it intersect the picture in in and angle towards Horus. Black empty space behind them in the middle of the picture frames them effectively.
I like the third bit of artwork specifically because of Sanguinius. He's just flat on his face, dead, in the background. It's so weirdly undignified and lacking in any drama, unlike the other two.
tneva82 wrote: Eh primarch were created with warp power from the get-go...they always were warp monsters. They got power up from warp thanks to deal emperor made.
Fluffwise nothing short of primarch or equilavent should be able to take one down. Certainly not random squad of marines.
And funny you mention list of primarch killing primarch plus primarch doing suicide. You arb proving my point. Primarch already are on level of shouldn't be in game if you want them to be fluff truthful without literally having rule "may not be killed except by primarch and emperor" while being able to take out anything(including warlord titan. Happened in fluff".
They aren't just super strong humans. Warp flew through them from the start.
You do know it was a Daemon that told Argel Tal that the Emperor used the Gods to create the Primarchs right? A Daemon that was trying to turn the Word Bearers to the worship of the Pantheon? Do you maybe think they weren't being entirely truthful?
The Emperor did gain power on Molech but it's only speculation that He used it to create the Primarchs. He still needed people like Erda, Amar Astarte, and Ezekiel Sedayne to help with the Primarch Project. The Primarchs could no more be considered Warp monsters than regular Psykers.
As for the whole "Only a Primarch can kill a Primarch", Curze dies to an assassin (regardless of whether or not he let it happen he still attacked her and then died), Dorn seemingly died to a bunch of Space Marines, Vulkan got killed hundreds of times during the Heresy by Curze's murder maze and then blew up during the War of the Beast. Sanguinius nearly died at Signus as well and Ka'Bandha is described as only one of Khorne's greatest servants.
Alpharius and Ferrus are the only two to die to regular Primarchs, as Sanguinius was killed by Super Horus.
tneva82 wrote: Eh primarch were created with warp power from the get-go...they always were warp monsters. They got power up from warp thanks to deal emperor made.
Fluffwise nothing short of primarch or equilavent should be able to take one down. Certainly not random squad of marines.
And funny you mention list of primarch killing primarch plus primarch doing suicide. You arb proving my point. Primarch already are on level of shouldn't be in game if you want them to be fluff truthful without literally having rule "may not be killed except by primarch and emperor" while being able to take out anything(including warlord titan. Happened in fluff".
They aren't just super strong humans. Warp flew through them from the start.
You do know it was a Daemon that told Argel Tal that the Emperor used the Gods to create the Primarchs right? A Daemon that was trying to turn the Word Bearers to the worship of the Pantheon? Do you maybe think they weren't being entirely truthful?
The Emperor did gain power on Molech but it's only speculation that He used it to create the Primarchs. He still needed people like Erda, Amar Astarte, and Ezekiel Sedayne to help with the Primarch Project. The Primarchs could no more be considered Warp monsters than regular Psykers.
As for the whole "Only a Primarch can kill a Primarch", Curze dies to an assassin (regardless of whether or not he let it happen he still attacked her and then died), Dorn seemingly died to a bunch of Space Marines, Vulkan got killed hundreds of times during the Heresy by Curze's murder maze and then blew up during the War of the Beast. Sanguinius nearly died at Signus as well and Ka'Bandha is described as only one of Khorne's greatest servants.
Alpharius and Ferrus are the only two to die to regular Primarchs, as Sanguinius was killed by Super Horus.
I'd argue Ferrus didn't really die to a REGULAR Primarch.
He was sort of regular. The weapon was fancy but Fulgrim was still Fulgrim right up until Ferrus's head came off and arguably even after that. It's a bit confusing what happens with Fulgrim because he does go off the rails but then Fabius and a bunch of captains torture him and he reveals that actually no he wasn't possessed he was just reveling in his Slanneshness.
Gert wrote: He was sort of regular. The weapon was fancy but Fulgrim was still Fulgrim right up until Ferrus's head came off and arguably even after that. It's a bit confusing what happens with Fulgrim because he does go off the rails but then Fabius and a bunch of captains torture him and he reveals that actually no he wasn't possessed he was just reveling in his Slanneshness.
A very good example of how incredibly low quality some of the HH series writing is.
tneva82 wrote: Eh primarch were created with warp power from the get-go...they always were warp monsters. They got power up from warp thanks to deal emperor made.
Fluffwise nothing short of primarch or equilavent should be able to take one down. Certainly not random squad of marines.
And funny you mention list of primarch killing primarch plus primarch doing suicide. You arb proving my point. Primarch already are on level of shouldn't be in game if you want them to be fluff truthful without literally having rule "may not be killed except by primarch and emperor" while being able to take out anything(including warlord titan. Happened in fluff".
They aren't just super strong humans. Warp flew through them from the start.
You do know it was a Daemon that told Argel Tal that the Emperor used the Gods to create the Primarchs right? A Daemon that was trying to turn the Word Bearers to the worship of the Pantheon? Do you maybe think they weren't being entirely truthful?
The Emperor did gain power on Molech but it's only speculation that He used it to create the Primarchs. He still needed people like Erda, Amar Astarte, and Ezekiel Sedayne to help with the Primarch Project. The Primarchs could no more be considered Warp monsters than regular Psykers.
As for the whole "Only a Primarch can kill a Primarch", Curze dies to an assassin (regardless of whether or not he let it happen he still attacked her and then died), Dorn seemingly died to a bunch of Space Marines, Vulkan got killed hundreds of times during the Heresy by Curze's murder maze and then blew up during the War of the Beast. Sanguinius nearly died at Signus as well and Ka'Bandha is described as only one of Khorne's greatest servants.
Alpharius and Ferrus are the only two to die to regular Primarchs, as Sanguinius was killed by Super Horus.
Dark Imperium has mention that Guilliman feels something tug at him whenever he uses a teleportarium but refuses to think about it. Corax shows up in a Word Bearers short story as a flock of angry birds because he "accepted what they are".
Crimson wrote: The black and white one is compositionally and thematically superior.
This B&W one?
Spoiler:
Yes. It has foreboding tone. The Emperor is leaning forwards, stepping towards Horus who looms menacingly above him, their eyes locked. Emperor's sword is raised and it intersect the picture in in and angle towards Horus. Black empty space behind them in the middle of the picture frames them effectively. The newer one has of course more detail, but compositionally it is much weaker; Emperor in particular just seems to be posing.
And the third one just is a bit of a mess.
Bruh, do you even have eyes? I don't know how you justify the old black and white one being "compositionally superior". Its a literal mess. You can barely even notice that Sanguinius corpse is there because it gets lost behind the Emperors sword. And the big "black empty space" isn't empty at all and has a lot of stuff going on in it that pulls your eyes away from the foreground action. Likewise, the characters just kind of blend into the background wall paneling in general because no distinction is made in style or detail between the foreground characters and the environment. The only bad thing I can say about the color piece from an artistic standpoint is that the Emperors posing is awful/his leg bend doesn't make much anatomical sense, other than that it does a far better job of framing the action and drawing your attention to the foreground while providing a wealth of background detail for you to look at if you want to closely examine the "snapshot in time" for finer details.
Segersgia wrote: Anyone notice the Horus Heresy tab on the store page?
Yup! The new pre-orders are likely coming soon.
*caugh: next weekend
Hope you wallet is ready. It's time to decide if minis are more important then the need to fill your gas tank.
Yesterday a local store owner says that his GW rep told him HH release is in about 2-3 weeks. I think we see the announcement for it to go on preorder next saturday today, followed by a 2 week preorder window.
Crimson wrote: The black and white one is compositionally and thematically superior.
This B&W one?
Spoiler:
Yes. It has foreboding tone. The Emperor is leaning forwards, stepping towards Horus who looms menacingly above him, their eyes locked. Emperor's sword is raised and it intersect the picture in in and angle towards Horus. Black empty space behind them in the middle of the picture frames them effectively. The newer one has of course more detail, but compositionally it is much weaker; Emperor in particular just seems to be posing.
And the third one just is a bit of a mess.
Did you even look at Horus? Dudes got one hand hiding behind his back in terminator armor. That alone looks ridiculous
The Kratos will be earning itself a Warhammer 40,000 datasheet to boot. While it’s rare on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium, it’s not extinct – and it packs just the same wallop.
Did I miss an actual release date in that article? As the 2 week/extended pre order periods sometimes see the actual release date as the Friday rather than the Saturday.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Did I miss an actual release date in that article? As the 2 week/extended pre order periods sometimes see the actual release date as the Friday rather than the Saturday.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Did I miss an actual release date in that article? As the 2 week/extended pre order periods sometimes see the actual release date as the Friday rather than the Saturday.
At first glance I thought it was a three week preorder.
Luckily retailers will get full details including prices tomorrow so we'll know for sure
lord_blackfang wrote: Anyone willing to guess what a reasonable purchase is for starting from scratch, besides the big box?
As far as force composition goes I mean.
2 times the big box and 2-3 of the new plastic tanks
So three more weeks until the box hits the shelves. Plus at least one more week if I order direct or D6 weeks if I rely on my FLGS. I guess it's time to start cleaning the working space.
Gert wrote: On the open day stream they did say both MkIII and IV would be repacked into 20 man boxes to match the MkVI.
wonder if the mk iii and mk iv will keep their special and heavy weapons
They're the existing kits - "This is an existing set of plastic sculpts which has been repackaged for the new edition".
Yeah. Apart from anything else, they would have to recut the moulds for each set and they’ve clearly been trying hard to minimise new moulds for this release (the single five man sprue vs the traditional ten man double sprue) and keep the large press for making large kits like the Spartan/recut land raider (again sharing moulds) and Kratos.
lord_blackfang wrote: Anyone willing to guess what a reasonable purchase is for starting from scratch, besides the big box?
As far as force composition goes I mean.
In addition to the big box, I would also grab another box of marines and then either a special or heavy weapon upgrade set to build special weapons squads and/or heavy weapon squads. That does partially depend on whether you want to run full 20-man tactical squads or keep them smaller to fit in Rhinos. And whatever vehicle(s) floats your boat.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but you can apparently pre-order the FW primarchs from the GW store next week. That's cool. Hopefully more FW products become available later on
GaroRobe wrote: Not sure if it's been mentioned, but you can apparently pre-order the FW primarchs from the GW store next week. That's cool. Hopefully more FW products become available later on
GaroRobe wrote: Not sure if it's been mentioned, but you can apparently pre-order the FW primarchs from the GW store next week. That's cool. Hopefully more FW products become available later on
Will the Primarchs get new models?
I'd say eventually, yes. But not in the near future. I've no doubt that they'll push everything out of Resin and into plastic over the next 5 years.
Marshal Loss wrote: Leaks ahoy. Some great stuff, and some less than great stuff (e.g. confirmation of no jump packs for Palatines, Reavers, etc)
Great, another failure in an edition that really didn't need more...
Are they even playing there own game or ...?
Nope they have no time to play, GW is way too busy counting their money then play testing or proof reading their stuff. Looks like they are going to try and push $299 as the new accepted norm for box sets. Necromunda Ash Wastes and now HH. Too rich for my blood.
I'm still resisting the big box set. But I will be getting a kratos and 2 Deimos rhinos for my burgeoning 40k thousand sons, plus a white scars transfer sheet for primaris my white scars. Not because I plan on a heresy era army any time soon but just because the legion markings are too cool to miss out on.
Will the axe-wielding praetor in the starter set be available to all the Legions, because I love the model's look. It might be fun to put him in a Death Guard army and say that later on he became one of the first Lords of Contagion.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Will the axe-wielding praetor in the starter set be available to all the Legions, because I love the model's look. It might be fun to put him in a Death Guard army and say that later on he became one of the first Lords of Contagion.
Yeah, you can run him as a Praetor with a Power Weapon or Paragon Blade. There's options for the Volkite as well.
godardc wrote: Are the transfer sheets the same as the old forge world ones?
Looks like the old ones bit available over GW.
Wonder what that will do to their price.
They’ve already done enough to the price. I didn’t realise how much FW prices had gone up until recently. I remember when the first few came out at £50, some of them are £98 now.
Racerguy180 wrote: Since I'm in need of replacing stuff I already had, my proposed buy list is fething ridiculous.
What do you need to replace?
My entire 30k/40k force which was replicating war of the beast Salamanders.
It was all Mkiii & iv with my original RTB-01 squad. Everything but the Rtb's had FW upgrades and all vehicles were Deimos/LR Helios/resin FW stuff.
Luckily I have receipts for pretty much everything sp INS will pay up but my time and effort in to making them look they way they did can't be redressed...
Racerguy180 wrote: My entire 30k/40k force which was replicating war of the beast Salamanders.
It was all Mkiii & iv with my original RTB-01 squad. Everything but the Rtb's had FW upgrades and all vehicles were Deimos/LR Helios/resin FW stuff.
Luckily I have receipts for pretty much everything sp INS will pay up but my time and effort in to making them look they way they did can't be redressed...
I don't comment often, but... dammit man, that's harsh. I hope you have a good time with your new shineys and keep the fond memories alive. And mucho aggressive thoughts towards the piece of trash who stole your stuff.
This is a good time to get deeper into HH though, for whatever it's worth.
Not shocked at the Kratos price, but the Rhino is fairly surprising considering the 40k Impulsor is currently £47.50. GW clearly want to sell a lot of those.
Not shocked at the Kratos price, but the Rhino is fairly surprising considering the 40k Impulsor is currently £47.50. GW clearly want to sell a lot of those.
The Rhino is cheaper then the current one (thought that includes the razorback sprue)
At first glance £26 for the weapon upgrades felt a bit oof. But then you literally get a lot of bang, zap and fwoosh for your buck. The Special Weapons can equip 50 Marines, and the HB/ML 20. So whilst still unexpectedly high, I don’t think I can say they’re bad value as such.
That will of course depend entirely on what your buying them for. If you’re maxing them out (potentially including magnets for flexibility) then it’s a pretty fair price. But if you’re just after say, the Melta and Plasma, outside of trading you’re losing a lot of the potential value.
Deimos Rhino does seem a decent price. Hopefully we’ll see that continue into its upgunned variants?
the 40k Rhino is £30 but comes with the Razorback frame
So £28 for just the Rhino is not cheap, but also not expensive either compared to the Primaris transports
Kratos between a Land Raider and Baneblade kind of fits
I’m hoping to find a 25% discount, as £21 Deimos make a mechanised army surprisingly affordable (well, for a given value of affordable). Which in turn makes 10 man specialist squads a more appealing option, as I’ve at least some chance of getting them to a good position without getting all dead on the way.
Racerguy180 wrote: My entire 30k/40k force which was replicating war of the beast Salamanders.
It was all Mkiii & iv with my original RTB-01 squad. Everything but the Rtb's had FW upgrades and all vehicles were Deimos/LR Helios/resin FW stuff.
Luckily I have receipts for pretty much everything sp INS will pay up but my time and effort in to making them look they way they did can't be redressed...
I think I'd missed that - sorry to hear about it, dude.
kodos wrote: the 40k Rhino is £30 but comes with the Razorback frame
So £28 for just the Rhino is not cheap, but also not expensive either compared to the Primaris transports
Kratos between a Land Raider and Baneblade kind of fits
The Sororitas Rhino is probably the best comparison, being relatively recent and just having the Rhino parts - that’s £35.
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