I lost intreast in that "problem with reactions video" after he spent over 5 minutes of the inital video complaining about people who expressed differant opinions from his relentless (and no doubt click inducing) barrage of negativity

Barrage of negativity? GMG? Huh

 Albertorius wrote:
Barrage of negativity? GMG? Huh

whoops was responding to the wrong video. I meant to make that comment about the problem with reactions video Crablezworth linked. literally the first 5+ (I stiopped watching after 5 minutes in) where the guy basicly complaining about people saying he was too negative

BrianDavion wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Barrage of negativity? GMG? Huh

whoops was responding to the wrong video. I meant to make that comment about the problem with reactions video Crablezworth linked. literally the first 5+ (I stiopped watching after 5 minutes in) where the guy basicly complaining about people saying he was too negative

That will show him

 Crablezworth wrote:
Good video on reactions.

Summary for people who don't want to listen to Macca's salt mining (seriously, he prattles on for over the first six minutes without getting to his point crying about the "toxic positivity crowd" and whining that he's a long running player so he knows what he's talking about and everyone else is wrong, ect, ect): he says he did some proxy playtesting, assumes that they playtesting wasn't comprehensive and spends minutes still not getting to his point of what he thinks is wrong and why. The video is a mess of rambling and failing to discuss his main point for nearly 17 minutes. That's almost half the video Seriously, at the 12 minute mark he's talking about PINNING and not about reactions. No one is missing much skipping the first half.

So he says one of his problems with reactions is that GW "won't commit to IGOUGO". He claims that 7th wasn't built around that. I think he means "alternating activations" and not "IGOUGO". He then says that you're "constantly being interrupted" by reactions, then back pedals a bit and says you'll be second guessing yourself because of that "trap card". So he creates a scenario that works in 1.0 but doesn't work in 2.0 with the possibility of being charged in your movement phase by an Imperial Fists player using an advanced reaction (The Best Defense which can only be used once a game, can only be declared on a unit within 10" and line of sight and the charging unit can only move D6"+ the unit's lowest initiative value) due to you moving a unit of Red Butchers "as close as possible" so it can charge the unit of Imperial Fists terminators after you shoot with "the rest of your army to soften it up". Could this happen? Yes. But it's something you can also bait out of the other player or by staying just outside the average range of the Best Defense for this scenario (which is 7") or you can move two units into range so one is slightly closer and in the way of them connecting with the Terminators and use your charge moves to position the chaffe unit out of the way while making a legal charge allowing the terminators to connect. Like this isn't a "gotcha" unless both players aren't operating with the same information. And if the Imperial Fists player in this scenario uses The Best Defense in the movement phase they can no longer use any reactions for the rest of the movement phase.

He also basically treats players like goldfish where they can't remember what they were doing when reactions happen, and then goes back to whining about "toxic positivity" players. Well his point lasted about three minutes so far and honestly I am tired of him not getting to the point so I'm calling it at the 20 minute mark. If he makes a more solid argument after that point cool, but honestly I want a refund for my time.

Also he admits around 13 minutes that he's not really a narrative player which tells me his mindset isn't really meshing with the general community which has made a point of saying it's a narrative community and are fearful of new players pushing it to be more competetive.

I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

They're 1 per phase and you can't react to reactions (so no reaction inception). You can unlock bonus reactions through things like Warlord Traits but those look to be phase specific. For example:

Stoic Defender
This warlord is a rock, the hard place against which his foes are dashed and broken. When the enemy surges forth they do not foolishly go to meet them, but dig in so that the enemy may exhaust themselves against the defences prepared for them. In the end, victory comes to those willing to endure the fires of battle and emerge unscathed from its fury.

Any friendly unit joined by a Warlord with this Trait that makes a Shooting Attack will force the target unit to take a Pinning test if it suffers any unsaved Wounds. In addition, an army whose Warlord has this Trait may make an additional Reaction during their opponent’s Shooting phase as long as the Warlord has not been removed as a casualty.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

yeah thats my thought too. the complaint that "reactions will potentially slow things up as people will have to think about their moves" I... don't see as being a bad thing. I agree too many to the point of it being "gotcha" is bad. but to have to think a moment and take into consideration "counter play" I don't see that as a bad thing AT ALL

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 skrulnik wrote:
Regarding the 5 man sprues complaint, all the Primaris models outside the big box sprues have been 5 pose boxes as well.
Intercessors, Reivers, Hellblasters, Infil/Incursors, Assault Intercessors, all just 5 poses.

They merely doubled up the sprues to make the current 10man boxes.

Why are the expectations so much higher here?

Because HH boxes are 20 men. Thus, expectations are actually the same; of one sprue of bodies doubled up.

Mk III and IV were both 10 man boxes. The 20 man boxes are new, and presumably a way to lower costs without having to officially discount models.

MkIII and MkIV also have 10 leg poses, not 5. And MkVI are only going to be available in a box of 20, so I’m pretty sure their point stands.

It's all about reducing costs. They will continue to do so until there is threat of no market. Not before & not till.

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

yeah thats my thought too. the complaint that "reactions will potentially slow things up as people will have to think about their moves" I... don't see as being a bad thing. I agree too many to the point of it being "gotcha" is bad. but to have to think a moment and take into consideration "counter play" I don't see that as a bad thing AT ALL

Yeah, the list of reactions we have is pretty short, and even the advanced reactions aren't too out of control and from what I can find it looks like each legion will get a single custom advanced reaction each which is perfectly fine in my book. Honestly it's what I wanted from stratagems but the 40k team keeps bloating that out further and further.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

It's much much worse than you might think, sadly. You will quickly find wargear that gets around the limits, traits and warlord traits and characters than quickly expand on how many can be done per turn, not to mention, few downsides or consequences, you would think, for example, intercepting might, i dunno, affect the unit intercepting's ability to shoot in their turn... nope. 10pts, doesn't come out of ur reaction limit, every unit can get them. It's going to make even 2v2 or larger games pretty intractable, not to mention the decision paralysis you'll see just in 1 v 1.

Put it another way, going to ground and jink are now a "reaction" called evade. In prior editions they were simply decisions to be made with consequences and upsides, now it's like a 5 up feel no pain for vehicles and infantry a like, but limited, (thankfully?) to represent that after a while military units in war forget how to actively evade incoming enemy fire when possible ("sir should be we actively try not to get shot by the enemy, who is actively trying to shoot us?" "Sorry lads, no more reactions. Better just stand there. Maybe next turn.").

Racerguy180 wrote:
It's all about reducing costs. They will continue to do so until there is threat of no market. Not before & not till.

It's more about having a project budget and needing to make compromises to get everything in under budget. Honestly with everything they're releasing at launch for what is a specialist game I can't complain. I'm sure someone can, but I can't.

ohh ffs not that manchilds clickbaity, histrionic whinefest videos again..

Anyone wanna bet we'll be seeing the HH box preorder announcement within the next 11 hours?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
It's all about reducing costs. They will continue to do so until there is threat of no market. Not before & not till.

It's more about having a project budget and needing to make compromises to get everything in under budget. Honestly with everything they're releasing at launch for what is a specialist game I can't complain. I'm sure someone can, but I can't.

Yeah a pretty damn low project budget. The digital assets are there, the tool making is in-house, they still need to cut a bunch of dies(unless they're using laser-sintered which I highly doubt).

I'd believe it if they weren't re-releasing the MKIII/IV kits and the plethora of 10 sculpts per new mould.

They're not treating it like a specialist game while simultaneously treating it like a specialist game. It's a new 3rd leg on the proverbial stool of GW.

So circling back to reactions briefly:

Regardless of any special rules or other effects, no player may ever increase their base Reaction Allotment above three, nor may any player ever make more than three Reactions in a given Phase unless a special rule specifically allows for a number of Reactions above the normal limit of three.

There is a limit on the number of "trap cards" a player can sit on. That said there are upgrades available that let you get reactions without spending a Reaction Allotment such as the Helical Targetting Array (available on the Legion Sicaran Arcus Squadron at +15pts each for example), but those are very specific in what you can use it on:

When the model makes a Shooting Attack as part of the Interceptor Reaction, the Reaction does not cost the controlling player a point from their Reaction Allotment. This does not allow the unit to make more than one Reaction per phase, but does allow the controlling player to exceed the normal three Reactions limit in a given phase.

So we can see that the Reaction economy means generally even if you lean into it you max at 9 a turn outside of specific instances from wargear (and the two I found with a quick skim both only worked only on the Interceptor Reaction to give a free reaction to that unit as part of a larger set of utilities).

I don't know, it doesn't feel like the same sort of decision paralysis that 40k has right now and honestly with how few reactions there are to choose from it doesn't feel like something most people are going to build for.

On a different note: bayonets of both types give +1 strength to melee attacks and count as two-handed weapons but chain-bayonets also confer shred (+1ppm for bayonets, +2ppm for chain bayonets) so I think anyone wanting to run melee will be looking at those depending on the rules they have.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So he says one of his problems with reactions is that GW "won't commit to IGOUGO". He claims that 7th wasn't built around that. I think he means "alternating activations" and not "IGOUGO".

at least this part I can understand, as IGoUGo in a sense off "I do something, finish it and than you get to do something" is not there in 40k. The basic turns are designed as I have a turn, you have a turn, but this is were IGoUGo stops and everything else is with possible interruptions which happen before I finish what I started doing

people call 40k IGoUGo, but it is not, it is a mix of Alternate Activation, IGoUGo and Interrupting Reactions, hence I don't really understand people complaining about reactions as the basic 40k rules were never a clear system in he first place that is now broken. they expanded on something that was already there but people missed because it was not declared as such
and I think lot of the negativity for reactions comes from the fact that HH is not moving towards 9th edition rules but continue being its own game and reactions are the easiest thing to point this out

my personal problem with Reactions usually if they happen during the current action and not after it breaking the flow of the game, which is a problem the larger the game gets but is kind of solved here by limiting the amount of reactions, so need to play it to see if this works out (we tested Reactions as house rules already back in 5th but those triggered after you finished your "action" within reaction range, so overwatch happend in the movement phase while in CC phase you got the opportunity to strike back or run away as reaction)

by now, I don't see Reactions as a problem but as an advantage, lets see if GW will find a way to mess it up or not

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So circling back to reactions briefly:

Regardless of any special rules or other effects, no player may ever increase their base Reaction Allotment above three, nor may any player ever make more than three Reactions in a given Phase unless a special rule specifically allows for a number of Reactions above the normal limit of three.

Hmm - I can't help but feel like this Reaction Allotment should probably scale by game size, rather than be fixed at three regardless of if playing at 1,000 points or 100,000 points.

Not sure at what increments it should scale at, but...

it kind of scales with game size, because the larger the game is, the more modes/units with special rules that go around the limit you can take

 Dysartes wrote:
Hmm - I can't help but feel like this Reaction Allotment should probably scale by game size, rather than be fixed at three regardless of if playing at 1,000 points or 100,000 points.

Not sure at what increments it should scale at, but...

That's what I think Strat assignment should be, based upon the game sizes GW has defined.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

I can go as low as 24 per legion, but... I'm going to release them for just 2 legions at a time at a pace of 2 legions every 3 months so that legions 17 & 18 get theirs 2 years after legions 1 & 2. Deal?

I will also release a reaction supplement book for 2 random legions every six months. 60 page book, 2 pages of reactions (but really OP).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
On a different note: bayonets of both types give +1 strength to melee attacks and count as two-handed weapons but chain-bayonets also confer shred (+1ppm for bayonets, +2ppm for chain bayonets) so I think anyone wanting to run melee will be looking at those depending on the rules they have.

Wait. Does that mean that a chain bayonet hits harder than a chainsword?

That's one thing I really don't like. The bayonets should just be the same function as the Chainswords and Combat Knives with the other armour kits, extra CCW.

It depends if they are straight up better then combat blades or chainswords or if it’s a bonus when charging/ charged

Why do people care what the outer circle thinks? His name doesn't carry any legitimacy. He's just some random guy who has managed to make himself a figurehead.

His videos are garbage. As described above, they're disorganized, emotional, poorly reasoned diatribes. Why would I give someone my attention and contribute to him earning money for content like that?

And I don't even say that as a GW apologist. I have plenty of negative feelings about them.

He's just that garbage.

why do people care what any Influencer thinks?

It's in the name there chief.

 kodos wrote:
why do people care what any Influencer thinks?

Who cares what anyone thinks? What is love? Why am I here? What is the purpose of life? Why am I not wearing pants?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
On a different note: bayonets of both types give +1 strength to melee attacks and count as two-handed weapons but chain-bayonets also confer shred (+1ppm for bayonets, +2ppm for chain bayonets) so I think anyone wanting to run melee will be looking at those depending on the rules they have.

Wait. Does that mean that a chain bayonet hits harder than a chainsword?

Saw someone do the math, and they don't hit as hard but they're better per-point on regular tacticals than taking a chainsword. Regular bayonets are also not good.

On despoilers the chainsword is significantly better than the heavy chainsword against other basic marines, but against anything higher or lower T the heavy chainsword is better.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 kodos wrote:
why do people care what any Influencer thinks?

What is love?

Baby don’t hurt me…

TeAXIIIT13 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 kodos wrote:
why do people care what any Influencer thinks?

What is love?

Baby don’t hurt me…

no more...

Thank you for the earworm....

Some people believe the preorder of the Box for next week could get announced today. A two weeks preorder and a release on June 11nd maybe?

I reckon a two week pre-order beginning next Saturday.

Not only are unboxings out in the wild, and indeed reviews/how to paints, but it would cross Common Monthly Pay Dates.

I myself am paid early on the 23rd (tomorrow cannot come quick enough. Moving house is expensive, and I’ve a prospective new woman to take on dates!), but most will be paid next weekend if my dates are correct.

I’m expecting this to sell really well - especially if the touted £180 price tag is correct. I’m also expecting an Indomitus Style “Made To Order” as well, mostly for the printed components.

I might treat myself. But there are a lot of To Buy things on my list. Including some lighting solutions which are much needed for my front room, so Heresy may have to wait. Until July.

One of my favourite things about /tg/s Horus Heresy general is that any time a Macca/OC post is brought up, everyone will respond to the person citing him by calling Macca a drooling moron.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Why do people care what the outer circle thinks? His name doesn't carry any legitimacy. He's just some random guy who has managed to make himself a figurehead.

His videos are garbage. As described above, they're disorganized, emotional, poorly reasoned diatribes. Why would I give someone my attention and contribute to him earning money for content like that?

And I don't even say that as a GW apologist. I have plenty of negative feelings about them.

He's just that garbage.

Yeah NGL I absolutely loathe GW but Macca in particular just comes off as a total crank.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
On a different note: bayonets of both types give +1 strength to melee attacks and count as two-handed weapons but chain-bayonets also confer shred (+1ppm for bayonets, +2ppm for chain bayonets) so I think anyone wanting to run melee will be looking at those depending on the rules they have.

Wait. Does that mean that a chain bayonet hits harder than a chainsword?

For the downside of not being able to stack with other melee weapons? Yes. You're literally taking both hands and stabbing your gun as hard as possible into the guy in front of you which you can do harder than swinging a stick that goes brrrrrrr.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cole1114 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
On a different note: bayonets of both types give +1 strength to melee attacks and count as two-handed weapons but chain-bayonets also confer shred (+1ppm for bayonets, +2ppm for chain bayonets) so I think anyone wanting to run melee will be looking at those depending on the rules they have.

Wait. Does that mean that a chain bayonet hits harder than a chainsword?

Saw someone do the math, and they don't hit as hard but they're better per-point on regular tacticals than taking a chainsword. Regular bayonets are also not good.

On despoilers the chainsword is significantly better than the heavy chainsword against other basic marines, but against anything higher or lower T the heavy chainsword is better.

I'd like to point out that one the charge Blood Angels can wound other MEQ on a 2+ with their legion trait (S5 means they'd wound on 3+ but their Legion trait moves it to a 2+) so even the cheaper 1ppm bayonet works well for them.

Now that said bayonets are limited to models with bolters so it seems more like a way to give Tactical some teeth since they're since a major core of the army and were largely limited to shooting.

Just to make sure I didn't miss something this is going to be a normally available box set (though obliviously not forever) and not one of those sets where once it is sold out that is it?

 Ahtman wrote:
Just to make sure I didn't miss something this is going to be a normally available box set (though obliviously not forever) and not one of those sets where once it is sold out that is it?

They've said this one is here to stay. Not a limited splash release.

 blood reaper wrote:
Yeah NGL I absolutely loathe GW but Macca in particular just comes off as a total crank.

Yeah, he's pretty... exhausting, would be the best word. I mean every day it's something else is wrong with whatever GW has posted, no detail too minor, no rule too low key - he'll decry it as the worst thing to have ever happened.

Well gak. That scuppers my plan of using the chainbayonets as additional CCWs for my Dark angels. Guess i'll have to find actually chainswords for them now.

Here's the math I mentioned:

I’m not sure on the whole 2 week preorders, it’s the jubilee weekend the 11th so there’ll be a lot going on, so maybe it is just next week or maybe 3 weeks? I could be wrong (probably am but still something to think about)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Just to make sure I didn't miss something this is going to be a normally available box set (though obliviously not forever) and not one of those sets where once it is sold out that is it?

They've said this one is here to stay. Not a limited splash release.

 blood reaper wrote:
Yeah NGL I absolutely loathe GW but Macca in particular just comes off as a total crank.

Yeah, he's pretty... exhausting, would be the best word. I mean every day it's something else is wrong with whatever GW has posted, no detail too minor, no rule too low key - he'll decry it as the worst thing to have ever happened.

CAUTION.

We were told Cursed City was a stock item. So there’s precedence for disappointment. Hence I expect a MTO window at the very least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also? What does Shred do when it’s at home?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also? What does Shred do when it’s at home?

Re-rolls failed To Wound rolls.

Re-roll To Wound, I believe.

And Cursed City had tons of card elements. HH does not. I believe that would be the deciding factor.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Good video on reactions.

Thanks for the link and I'll check the video out. A few weeks back you posted his reasoned and well thought out explanation (unlike the reception here in thread to the link) of the traditional differences between the feel of 40k vs HH which helped someone like me who has only followed the game peripherally through channels like your's and the BL novels pre-pandemic.

 warboss wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Good video on reactions.

Thanks for the link and I'll check the video out. A few weeks back you posted his reasoned and well thought out explanation (unlike the reception here in thread to the link) of the traditional differences between the feel of 40k vs HH which helped someone like me who has only followed the game peripherally through channels like your's and the BL novels pre-pandemic.

Skip the first SEVENTEEN minutes of aimless ranting if you want to get to the point (for 3 minutes before he starts ranting again).

I guess that "permanent available" phrase is just a marketing trick to suggest there is enough stock for everyone who wants a box and to prevent FOMO by people how buy multiple sets to sell them on higher prices shorty after release.

There is also the big and unhandy hardcover rulebook and no "start here" guide or something in that box which doen't make it a beginner set.

They will bring a "true" starter set in the future for sure.

RazorEdge wrote:
I guess that "permanent available" phrase is just a marketing trick to suggest there is enough stock for everyone who wants a box and to prevent FOMO by people how buy multiple sets to sell them on higher prices shorty after release.

There is also the big and unhandy hardcover rulebook and no "start here" guide or something in that box which doen't make it a beginner set.

They will bring a "true" starter set in the future for sure.

No, GW said if they run out they'll make more. Like seriously, the amount of tinfoil hattery involved in trying to say GW means the opposite of what they said is nuts.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Re-roll To Wound, I believe.

And Cursed City had tons of card elements. HH does not. I believe that would be the deciding factor.

True. Still urging caution, as initial stock can still sell through, leaving others waiting for a custom job.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Re-roll To Wound, I believe.

And Cursed City had tons of card elements. HH does not. I believe that would be the deciding factor.

True. Still urging caution, as initial stock can still sell through, leaving others waiting for a custom job.

We're also not in the middle of COVID with GW's Chinese printer facing sudden bankrupcy so it's not really the same thing.

Like let's not up the FOMO on this box. That's GW's job not the community's.

 Albertorius wrote:
Well, well, well... it seems I have my 15mm beakie needs covered already:

Spoiler:

Or some, at least...

So, just a follow up on this, in case someone is interested (please ignore if you're not)... they look incredible at 15mm:

 warboss wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Good video on reactions.

Thanks for the link and I'll check the video out. A few weeks back you posted his reasoned and well thought out explanation (unlike the reception here in thread to the link) of the traditional differences between the feel of 40k vs HH which helped someone like me who has only followed the game peripherally through channels like your's and the BL novels pre-pandemic.

The tl;dr is reactions seem contained but you realize quickly they're not as limited as perhaps one would like and, worse still, units typically are limited to react per phase not turn, so the same unit over 3 phases could do quite a bit of reacting. The issues can be huge, back in 3rd edition blood angels had this ability to charge and charge and could sweep whole lines in like one turn, it was basically time dilation. When you factor in that wargear can give units reactions that don't count towards to total, and worse still, reactions like interceptor have no downside like in prior editions, where choosing to intercept affected what that unit could or couldn't do in its own turn.

We made a long video/thread about all of this about a month ago

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/804752.page





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Re-roll To Wound, I believe.

And Cursed City had tons of card elements. HH does not. I believe that would be the deciding factor.

True. Still urging caution, as initial stock can still sell through, leaving others waiting for a custom job.

We're also not in the middle of COVID with GW's Chinese printer facing sudden bankrupcy so it's not really the same thing.

Like let's not up the FOMO on this box. That's GW's job not the community's.

True but the pricing does affect not just the secondary market and those splitting it but will surely make the individual cost of some units a head scratcher if the disparity is high. Example, its about a 360$ box here, lets say 400ish tax in, fair assumption the spartan is worth aprox 1/4 or more of the box. I can't imagine it being that affordable when released on its own. Just the 10 terminators since they're the only re-release in the box, would go for about 140-160 before tax from GW here, So good news if the box stays, but it does seem hard to trust.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Re-roll To Wound, I believe.

And Cursed City had tons of card elements. HH does not. I believe that would be the deciding factor.

True. Still urging caution, as initial stock can still sell through, leaving others waiting for a custom job.

We're also not in the middle of COVID with GW's Chinese printer facing sudden bankrupcy so it's not really the same thing.

Like let's not up the FOMO on this box. That's GW's job not the community's.

Not my intent at all. Rather, I’m more urging caution that some folk will have to wait, based on past releases. Nobody is going to Miss Out from what we’re told. But not everyone is going to get immediate gratification from their order.


Indeed, this is an attempt to head off the mind numbing boredom of Serial Whiners coming out the woodwork to pretend to be personally offended that a likely high demand item may take time to fulfil initial demand.

Well, I'm glad we're getting the serial preemptive whining about potential whiners out of the way.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Re-roll To Wound, I believe.

And Cursed City had tons of card elements. HH does not. I believe that would be the deciding factor.

True. Still urging caution, as initial stock can still sell through, leaving others waiting for a custom job.

We're also not in the middle of COVID with GW's Chinese printer facing sudden bankrupcy so it's not really the same thing.

Like let's not up the FOMO on this box. That's GW's job not the community's.

Not my intent at all. Rather, I’m more urging caution that some folk will have to wait, based on past releases. Nobody is going to Miss Out from what we’re told. But not everyone is going to get immediate gratification from their order.


Indeed, this is an attempt to head off the mind numbing boredom of Serial Whiners coming out the woodwork to pretend to be personally offended that a likely high demand item may take time to fulfil initial demand.

I've waited for a dedicated MKVI kit for 20+ years. You think waiting a few more weeks is going to matter at this point?

Besides, I ain't even going to start assembling most of the contents of the box until chapter and weapon upgrades get released. Those could take months to release AFAIK

As others have said, the doubts about this being a permanent release are just that it clearly eats into selling regular boxes of all the kits.

You are going to see say 10 marines, 5 terminators, the dread etc on ebay for £15~ each. Whereas if GW were applying a 40k RRP they'd want £35-40.

Its probable GW want to reduce the cost of entry - and thereby take HH more mainstream. But still.

It's not probable that GW wants to take HH more mainstream, it's 100% accurate to say so.
There will be enough extra buying of what is already a large number of kits not included in the box set that any issues with reselling isn't going to be a concern. At the very least there will be more Contemptor weapons to come and a plastic Leviathan plus weapons. From there I'd wager the Deimos vehicles and possibly Sicaran alternate weapons and things like Assault Marines, MkII kits and others.

 Gert wrote:
It's not probable that GW wants to take HH more mainstream, it's 100% accurate to say so.
There will be enough extra buying of what is already a large number of kits not included in the box set that any issues with reselling isn't going to be a concern. At the very least there will be more Contemptor weapons to come and a plastic Leviathan plus weapons. From there I'd wager the Deimos vehicles and possibly Sicaran alternate weapons and things like Assault Marines, MkII kits and others.

Given the Deimos Rhino is coming, I’d be exceptionally surprised if we don’t see that chassis used for Predators et al.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Given the Deimos Rhino is coming, I’d be exceptionally surprised if we don’t see that chassis used for Predators et al.

Deimos predators are already visible in the leaked content.

I missed that entirely. Next week’s Thursday reveal perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nads.

No pre-order next week.

 Crablezworth wrote:


True but the pricing does affect not just the secondary market and those splitting it but will surely make the individual cost of some units a head scratcher if the disparity is high. Example, its about a 360$ box here, lets say 400ish tax in, fair assumption the spartan is worth aprox 1/4 or more of the box. I can't imagine it being that affordable when released on its own. Just the 10 terminators since they're the only re-release in the box, would go for about 140-160 before tax from GW here, So good news if the box stays, but it does seem hard to trust.

this isn't a typical starter box. I doubt many people will be splitting it given it's all one army.

Even then, I reckon it’d be mainly the Marines and Characters being split out?

Bit tired of the articles for this one, as welcome as the new edition is, so yeah its a bummer it ain't out next week...

Oh! Wardogs are out next week!

So I found a nice 360 of the new MkVI after hearing some mild freaking out over GW mildly modifying the backpack design to stay in proportion to the Marines being taller: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdXXejxjj-h/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Good video on reactions.

Summary for people who don't want to listen to Macca's salt mining (seriously, he prattles on for over the first six minutes without getting to his point crying about the "toxic positivity crowd" and whining that he's a long running player so he knows what he's talking about and everyone else is wrong, ect, ect): he says he did some proxy playtesting, assumes that they playtesting wasn't comprehensive and spends minutes still not getting to his point of what he thinks is wrong and why. The video is a mess of rambling and failing to discuss his main point for nearly 17 minutes. That's almost half the video Seriously, at the 12 minute mark he's talking about PINNING and not about reactions. No one is missing much skipping the first half.

So he says one of his problems with reactions is that GW "won't commit to IGOUGO". He claims that 7th wasn't built around that. I think he means "alternating activations" and not "IGOUGO". He then says that you're "constantly being interrupted" by reactions, then back pedals a bit and says you'll be second guessing yourself because of that "trap card". So he creates a scenario that works in 1.0 but doesn't work in 2.0 with the possibility of being charged in your movement phase by an Imperial Fists player using an advanced reaction (The Best Defense which can only be used once a game, can only be declared on a unit within 10" and line of sight and the charging unit can only move D6"+ the unit's lowest initiative value) due to you moving a unit of Red Butchers "as close as possible" so it can charge the unit of Imperial Fists terminators after you shoot with "the rest of your army to soften it up". Could this happen? Yes. But it's something you can also bait out of the other player or by staying just outside the average range of the Best Defense for this scenario (which is 7") or you can move two units into range so one is slightly closer and in the way of them connecting with the Terminators and use your charge moves to position the chaffe unit out of the way while making a legal charge allowing the terminators to connect. Like this isn't a "gotcha" unless both players aren't operating with the same information. And if the Imperial Fists player in this scenario uses The Best Defense in the movement phase they can no longer use any reactions for the rest of the movement phase.

He also basically treats players like goldfish where they can't remember what they were doing when reactions happen, and then goes back to whining about "toxic positivity" players. Well his point lasted about three minutes so far and honestly I am tired of him not getting to the point so I'm calling it at the 20 minute mark. If he makes a more solid argument after that point cool, but honestly I want a refund for my time.

Also he admits around 13 minutes that he's not really a narrative player which tells me his mindset isn't really meshing with the general community which has made a point of saying it's a narrative community and are fearful of new players pushing it to be more competetive.

Have an exalt for suffering through that on my behalf. Doing the Emperors work. Macca sounds like hes complaining sbout something that will massively enhance the tacticality of the game and require a lot more careful play and consideration.

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

yeah thats my thought too. the complaint that "reactions will potentially slow things up as people will have to think about their moves" I... don't see as being a bad thing. I agree too many to the point of it being "gotcha" is bad. but to have to think a moment and take into consideration "counter play" I don't see that as a bad thing AT ALL

Considering it seems you get all the rules in one book (or maybe 2/3? still not clear to me what contains what), i find it hard to justify "gotcha" arguments. everyone has access to the same info at no extra cost.

Watching Ash's review and first gameplay video, seems like this could be my favorite build of 40k since 4th edition, or even of all time. Someone just needs to put in all the 40k era factions and stuff.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I missed that entirely. Next week’s Thursday reveal perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nads.

No pre-order next week.

I know right? I'm even planning to buy this new KillTeam expansion as well, but cannot afford buying both boxes this month. Oh well, I'm sure the new KT box will be still around next month, will just need to wait until June 4th to splurge on them beakies. Priorities!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I found a nice 360 of the new MkVI after hearing some mild freaking out over GW mildly modifying the backpack design to stay in proportion to the Marines being taller: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdXXejxjj-h/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

The new backpack is indeed strange looking, but I reckon I'll still be able to mix the old resin MKVI backpacks with the new ones for some variety. I'll just handwaive the differences in appearance as an alternative pattern of the MKVI power supply.

chaos0xomega wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

yeah thats my thought too. the complaint that "reactions will potentially slow things up as people will have to think about their moves" I... don't see as being a bad thing. I agree too many to the point of it being "gotcha" is bad. but to have to think a moment and take into consideration "counter play" I don't see that as a bad thing AT ALL

Considering it seems you get all the rules in one book (or maybe 2/3? still not clear to me what contains what), i find it hard to justify "gotcha" arguments. everyone has access to the same info at no extra cost.

The core rules, unit types, terrain rules, core missions (6, with six deployment maps which are rolled for after choosing victory conditions and placing terrain, it seems), and universal special rules (like Shred or Rending) are all in the main book. The Space Marine Army List, unit descriptions, and points are in the two Liber books, with the Legion rules (and primarchs I guess) split across them.
No idea where the Talons, Auxilia, Mechanicum/Knights/Titans, and Daemons are though.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've never been of the opinion that AA is the panacea that will fix 40k, but I'm fine with Reactions adding a form of interactivity to the game during the 'off' turns.

As long as they are limited and there aren't 48 of them in 7 broad categories for each Legion, it should be fine.

yeah thats my thought too. the complaint that "reactions will potentially slow things up as people will have to think about their moves" I... don't see as being a bad thing. I agree too many to the point of it being "gotcha" is bad. but to have to think a moment and take into consideration "counter play" I don't see that as a bad thing AT ALL

Considering it seems you get all the rules in one book (or maybe 2/3? still not clear to me what contains what), i find it hard to justify "gotcha" arguments. everyone has access to the same info at no extra cost.

The core rules, unit types, terrain rules, core missions (6, with six deployment maps which are rolled for after choosing victory conditions and placing terrain, it seems), and universal special rules (like Shred or Rending) are all in the main book. The Space Marine Army List, unit descriptions, and points are in the two Liber books, with the Legion rules (and primarchs I guess) split across them.
No idea where the Talons, Auxilia, Mechanicum/Knights/Titans, and Daemons are though.

IIRC there's supposed to be a 3rd book with "everything else" due out shortly after. my money says with the "Second wave"

BrianDavion wrote:


IIRC there's supposed to be a 3rd book with "everything else" due out shortly after. my money says with the "Second wave"

Not a third book, but individual books.

Each of the major factions waging war in the Horus Heresy will feature in their own books.

From the WarCom article about non-Marine factions.

Thanks to the @mooseminis on Twitter I've managed to get nice still images of the back of the models:

I like the biggerised backpack. Kinda like the look of a contemporary soldier, huge. Also giving me the vibe of a sci-fi trooper with overlarge pack but I can't put my finger on what specifically.

JWBS wrote:
I like the biggerised backpack. Kinda like the look of a contemporary soldier, huge. Also giving me the vibe of a sci-fi trooper with overlarge pack but I can't put my finger on what specifically.

Reminds me of road marches, but each to their own.

I just like that it keeps the same relative scale of the RTB-01 model while also making the MkVII look like an advancement as the backpack becomes smaller and more streamlined.

I realised what the "scifi vibe" I'm feeling is. lol

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11det5964suit.jpg

I like it, for what it's worth

Powerpack looks perfectly appropriate for the scale of the models.

Backpack looks like a modern sculpt based off the original metal backpack design

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Thanks to the @mooseminis on Twitter I've managed to get nice still images of the back of the models:

Never mind the backpack, what are those bulges on the backs of the legs?

Certainly a new aspect of the MKVI, unless I'm missing some old metal minis which had those..

He's also missing a pistol, spare clips and grenades

Given they’re in other glamour shots, we can assume whoever built this left them off.

The sprues are up online and there are pistols and grenades up on the sprues so it was definitely left off by the person who made the model.

As for the nodes on the back of the leg, it's likely a new detail for the armour to break up the large flat spaces a bit. If I had to guess though, maybe that's a bit of tech that helps silence the armour's movements a bit?

World Eaters painting vid:




I'll grumble a bit on how they've got early heresy colours for late heresy armour...

I gotta say I prefer the old painting video for the World Eaters.

The new painting videos are all incredibly rough and many are very, very scuffed in places.

 zedmeister wrote:
World Eaters painting vid:




I'll grumble a bit on how they've got early heresy colours for late heresy armour...

I'm the only one who think his voice is annoying?

Ah time for daily painting vid complaining to start. Then complaining about writing

Have no interest fluffwise in World Eaters (down there with a very boring legions imo) - but the white+blue scheme always looks great.

Tyel wrote:
Have no interest fluffwise in World Eaters (down there with a very boring legions imo) - but the white+blue scheme always looks great.

Also very patriotic (if you're from the right country). :-D

 zedmeister wrote:
World Eaters painting vid:




I'll grumble a bit on how they've got early heresy colours for late heresy armour...

That’s easy to fix though. Just follow the guide then at the end dunk the entire mini face-first into a tub of Blood for the Blood God. Or use the toothbrush flick technique if you want to go against type and do that “subtle” thing …

I believe they are referencing the alternate scheme certain World Eaters began to adopt as the fell further into Khorne's embrace. The blue was replace by red, either through paint or blood. It's not a hard and fast rule though and the blue/white is more recognisable.

To be honest, I 100% expect (when GW puts out the World Eater codex) for there to be plenty of warbands using the blue and white armour scheme rather than the traditional red and brass - just like they did with the Death Guard.

 blood reaper wrote:
To be honest, I 100% expect (when GW puts out the World Eater codex) for there to be plenty of warbands using the blue and white armour scheme rather than the traditional red and brass - just like they did with the Death Guard.

Yeah that’s completely plausible. I wonder if they will have at least some of them still bitter as feth about Khârn’s “betrayal” and paint their armour to appear sooty and burned.?

I mean the WE will have 6 subfactions, maybe 8 cos Khorne so it's plausible.

 tauist wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Thanks to the @mooseminis on Twitter I've managed to get nice still images of the back of the models:

Never mind the backpack, what are those bulges on the backs of the legs?

Certainly a new aspect of the MKVI, unless I'm missing some old metal minis which had those..

He's also missing a pistol, spare clips and grenades

It's not like the designs of the old metal marines were ultra-consistent to begin with, and it shouldn't need to be pointed out that the relative scale of them, being both hand-sculpted and teensy compared to modern Marines, didn't exactly NEED additional greeblies to break up large, relatively flat armour panels.

They're simply details. Maybe a simple access panel to allow the armour to be put on/taken off, maybe some kind of noise suppression thingy, who knows?

I've also decided that I'm going to buy and box and paint them in Tamiya's transparent candy red and adorn them as Flesh Tearers, with the justification that they're a representation of a Second Founding chapter right at its birth, so carrying a whole bunch of pre-Heresy elements over. I basically just wanted to paint candy red, and I didn't want to do Blood Angels or Word Bearers, and I already have a force of (blue) Thousand Sons, so that's that.

 ekwatts wrote:

I've also decided that I'm going to buy and box and paint them in Tamiya's transparent candy red and adorn them as Flesh Tearers, with the justification that they're a representation of a Second Founding chapter right at its birth, so carrying a whole bunch of pre-Heresy elements over. I basically just wanted to paint candy red, and I didn't want to do Blood Angels or Word Bearers, and I already have a force of (blue) Thousand Sons, so that's that.

There's been a few indications here and there that, for some Legions, their second founding chapters are existing Chapters within the legion's organization (effectively a Chapter is what we'd probably call a regiment or battalion, a level of organization for companies). Iirc, this came up particularly with the Ultramarines destroyer Chapter in the Roboute Primarch novel.

In any case 'Flesh Tearers' could very well be an informal name for a unit that's been operating independently for a while under a separate expedition fleet or some such.


Also there's the fact that 'official' color schemes are part of the Codex Astartes, which doesn't exist yet. (though it also has camo patterns and distinct environmental color schemes that GW doesn't talk about anymore).

World Eaters Legion Focus

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/23/legions-of-the-horus-heresy-the-world-eaters-are-the-angriest-astartes-around/









Reaction is nasty.

Nice, lot's of Mk II

Racerguy180 wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:Good video on reactions.

Shhhh, you should know not to mention them....


But yes it's a good video.

Man, I started watching this video and it's just awful.

as a caveat: I'm new to 30k - not having played it at all - and am looking forward to this new edition.

but his rambling diatribe (and the comments on the video) are a huge turn off, and remind me why I never got into 30k in the first place - the online negativity for 30k is absolutely bonkers. It's like there's a weird cultish subset of Heresy players that hate GW, hate other players, and hate themselves. The rambling about "toxic positivity" is insane... I think he's purposefully confused good marketing and what appears to be a very good product in order to frame it as a personal attack on what he views is his personal game.

I'm not even sure if there's actual criticism or analysis of reactions in this video as I had to exit before it was done: the fact he completely doesn't understand what I Go You Go is and confuses it with Alternating or Interleaved is like a big warning that any opinions that follow will almost certainly be not worth listening to. Blech

That’s probably an old fw pic they had lying around. None of those are the plastic kits lol

 GaroRobe wrote:
That’s probably an old fw pic they had lying around. None of those are the plastic kits lol

Indeed, they're the old MkII assault marines. Nice to see them. Got a bunch of them I need to paint

I like the charge bonus rule. Not as powerful as some others but it's consistently reliable and easy to remember.

So that makes tomorrow Zorpazorp's 13th Legion army display. Cool.

Either way, I have Heresy WE, so it's nice to see their spotlight.

 judgedoug wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:Good video on reactions.

Spoiler:

Shhhh, you should know not to mention them....


But yes it's a good video.

Man, I started watching this video and it's just awful.

as a caveat: I'm new to 30k - not having played it at all - and am looking forward to this new edition.

but his rambling diatribe (and the comments on the video) are a huge turn off, and remind me why I never got into 30k in the first place - the online negativity for 30k is absolutely bonkers. It's like there's a weird cultish subset of Heresy players that hate GW, hate other players, and hate themselves. The rambling about "toxic positivity" is insane... I think he's purposefully confused good marketing and what appears to be a very good product in order to frame it as a personal attack on what he views is his personal game.

I'm not even sure if there's actual criticism or analysis of reactions in this video as I had to exit before it was done: the fact he completely doesn't understand what I Go You Go is and confuses it with Alternating or Interleaved is like a big warning that any opinions that follow will almost certainly be not worth listening to. Blech

The comments on the video are hilarious, and show just want kind of player he's catering to, like this gem: "[in reference to stratagems].....They slow down the game SO MUCH because they make me think of more options. Some if my best moments in 40k is when both players are out of Command Points and able to just have at it, usually towards the end of a game. There's no mess, no second guessing, just play. "

"40K is BORING when I have options I have to choose from during play. I just want to line up and chuck dice."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So that makes tomorrow Zorpazorp's 13th Legion army display. Cool.

I really wish they showed some higher res images of the army displays, they put all this effort into getting the community to paint these models which I think is great, but for so many of them I can't find a decent quality set of photos of them.

 ekwatts wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Thanks to the @mooseminis on Twitter I've managed to get nice still images of the back of the models:

Never mind the backpack, what are those bulges on the backs of the legs?

Certainly a new aspect of the MKVI, unless I'm missing some old metal minis which had those..

He's also missing a pistol, spare clips and grenades

It's not like the designs of the old metal marines were ultra-consistent to begin with, and it shouldn't need to be pointed out that the relative scale of them, being both hand-sculpted and teensy compared to modern Marines, didn't exactly NEED additional greeblies to break up large, relatively flat armour panels.

They're simply details. Maybe a simple access panel to allow the armour to be put on/taken off, maybe some kind of noise suppression thingy, who knows?

I've also decided that I'm going to buy and box and paint them in Tamiya's transparent candy red and adorn them as Flesh Tearers, with the justification that they're a representation of a Second Founding chapter right at its birth, so carrying a whole bunch of pre-Heresy elements over. I basically just wanted to paint candy red, and I didn't want to do Blood Angels or Word Bearers, and I already have a force of (blue) Thousand Sons, so that's that.

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

 Soundtheory wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:Good video on reactions.

Spoiler:

Shhhh, you should know not to mention them....


But yes it's a good video.

Man, I started watching this video and it's just awful.

as a caveat: I'm new to 30k - not having played it at all - and am looking forward to this new edition.

but his rambling diatribe (and the comments on the video) are a huge turn off, and remind me why I never got into 30k in the first place - the online negativity for 30k is absolutely bonkers. It's like there's a weird cultish subset of Heresy players that hate GW, hate other players, and hate themselves. The rambling about "toxic positivity" is insane... I think he's purposefully confused good marketing and what appears to be a very good product in order to frame it as a personal attack on what he views is his personal game.

I'm not even sure if there's actual criticism or analysis of reactions in this video as I had to exit before it was done: the fact he completely doesn't understand what I Go You Go is and confuses it with Alternating or Interleaved is like a big warning that any opinions that follow will almost certainly be not worth listening to. Blech

The comments on the video are hilarious, and show just want kind of player he's catering to, like this gem: "[in reference to stratagems].....They slow down the game SO MUCH because they make me think of more options. Some if my best moments in 40k is when both players are out of Command Points and able to just have at it, usually towards the end of a game. There's no mess, no second guessing, just play. "

"40K is BORING when I have options I have to choose from during play. I just want to line up and chuck dice."

I mean no one is forcing them to personally use stratagems or reactions so it seems like a real non-issue to just not do the thing you don't like?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Soundtheory wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:Good video on reactions.

Spoiler:

Shhhh, you should know not to mention them....


But yes it's a good video.

Man, I started watching this video and it's just awful.

as a caveat: I'm new to 30k - not having played it at all - and am looking forward to this new edition.

but his rambling diatribe (and the comments on the video) are a huge turn off, and remind me why I never got into 30k in the first place - the online negativity for 30k is absolutely bonkers. It's like there's a weird cultish subset of Heresy players that hate GW, hate other players, and hate themselves. The rambling about "toxic positivity" is insane... I think he's purposefully confused good marketing and what appears to be a very good product in order to frame it as a personal attack on what he views is his personal game.

I'm not even sure if there's actual criticism or analysis of reactions in this video as I had to exit before it was done: the fact he completely doesn't understand what I Go You Go is and confuses it with Alternating or Interleaved is like a big warning that any opinions that follow will almost certainly be not worth listening to. Blech

The comments on the video are hilarious, and show just want kind of player he's catering to, like this gem: "[in reference to stratagems].....They slow down the game SO MUCH because they make me think of more options. Some if my best moments in 40k is when both players are out of Command Points and able to just have at it, usually towards the end of a game. There's no mess, no second guessing, just play. "

"40K is BORING when I have options I have to choose from during play. I just want to line up and chuck dice."

I mean no one is forcing them to personally use stratagems or reactions so it seems like a real non-issue to just not do the thing you don't like?

They're rather central to 2.0, IE you'd be tossing it a lot of rules for each legio, in addition to all the core ones. Some of which replace USR's from 1.0, so the thought is to just stick with 1.0 and buy whatever plastics from the new stuff.

 Soundtheory wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:Good video on reactions.

Spoiler:

Shhhh, you should know not to mention them....


But yes it's a good video.

Man, I started watching this video and it's just awful.

as a caveat: I'm new to 30k - not having played it at all - and am looking forward to this new edition.

but his rambling diatribe (and the comments on the video) are a huge turn off, and remind me why I never got into 30k in the first place - the online negativity for 30k is absolutely bonkers. It's like there's a weird cultish subset of Heresy players that hate GW, hate other players, and hate themselves. The rambling about "toxic positivity" is insane... I think he's purposefully confused good marketing and what appears to be a very good product in order to frame it as a personal attack on what he views is his personal game.

I'm not even sure if there's actual criticism or analysis of reactions in this video as I had to exit before it was done: the fact he completely doesn't understand what I Go You Go is and confuses it with Alternating or Interleaved is like a big warning that any opinions that follow will almost certainly be not worth listening to. Blech

The comments on the video are hilarious, and show just want kind of player he's catering to, like this gem: "[in reference to stratagems].....They slow down the game SO MUCH because they make me think of more options. Some if my best moments in 40k is when both players are out of Command Points and able to just have at it, usually towards the end of a game. There's no mess, no second guessing, just play. "

"40K is BORING when I have options I have to choose from during play. I just want to line up and chuck dice."

yeah I noticed that too. the thing that makes reactions intreasting is they add a measure of "... well if I do X.. what if he does Y?" to the decision making process. whch is a hell of a lot more intreasting then "I move my squad up, kill his squad etc" In Battletech, a game with alternating activation one of my most common tactics is to deliberatly use a unit as BAIT

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

Spoiler:

Is it even possible to paint beakies without the stripe? I thought it was pretty much required.

Obviously, people can paint their models as they like, but it just doesn’t seem like Mk. VI without it.

The other question is do you stripe all the way down the nose, or just stop at the top? I just do partials myself.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

Spoiler:

Is it even possible to paint beakies without the stripe? I thought it was pretty much required.

Obviously, people can paint their models as they like, but it just doesn’t seem like Mk. VI without it.

The other question is do you stripe all the way down the nose, or just stop at the top? I just do partials myself.

No, there is no rule in the game that requires you must paint your models a specific way. That would be beyond asinine.

 Togusa wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


Is it even possible to paint beakies without the stripe? I thought it was pretty much required.

Obviously, people can paint their models as they like, but it just doesn’t seem like Mk. VI without it.

The other question is do you stripe all the way down the nose, or just stop at the top? I just do partials myself.

No, there is no rule in the game that requires you must paint your models a specific way. That would be beyond asinine.

I took this a a personal preference question, not a rules one. You are correct, there is not requirement to stripe.

But there is a lot of history there.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


Is it even possible to paint beakies without the stripe? I thought it was pretty much required.

Obviously, people can paint their models as they like, but it just doesn’t seem like Mk. VI without it.

The other question is do you stripe all the way down the nose, or just stop at the top? I just do partials myself.

No, there is no rule in the game that requires you must paint your models a specific way. That would be beyond asinine.

I took this a a personal preference question, not a rules one. You are correct, there is not requirement to stripe.

But there is a lot of history there.

Actually it was I who misunderstood what you were saying. Upon re-reading it I see you're referring to how it would feel to not have them as they were portrayed in the past. I can't really speak to that, but I prefer the mono-color for these HH marines. One thing I can't stand is how many black armored chapters there are though, surely they could have tossed some orange or aqua in there...

I'd be fine with the reactions if there were wayyyyyyy more limitations and less ways to get around those limitations. Or if the limitations were generic for all armies across the game.


But Beakies without stripes are kinda...odd.

The only way to get around restrictions on reactions is having the Warlord trait and its only as long as the Warlord is alive. If someone is keeping their Warlord alive just to keep an extra reaction then that's a waste.

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

Spoiler:

You, sir, just won the Internet!

You even did the Sgt stripe with the light coloured trims. Blessings of the Emeror be upon you squire

EDIT: Hold up.. do I suffer from the Mandela effect here? IIRC Crimson Fists had both hands red..?

 tauist wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

Spoiler:

You, sir, just won the Internet!

You even did the Sgt stripe with the light coloured trims. Blessings of the Emeror be upon you squire

EDIT: Hold up.. do I suffer from the Mandela effect here? IIRC Crimson Fists had both hands red..?

Only the veterans ^^

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

Spoiler:

You, sir, just won the Internet!

You even did the Sgt stripe with the light coloured trims. Blessings of the Emeror be upon you squire

EDIT: Hold up.. do I suffer from the Mandela effect here? IIRC Crimson Fists had both hands red..?

Only the veterans ^^

And vets would have hash stripes across their helmet stripes as well. The vet sarge would also have the trim color along side of the stripe.

Helmet stripes: not just fashionable, but they tell you a lot about the marine wearing it.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I got just one question to you - Are you gonna go with or without the Rogue Trader helmet stripe on the beakies?

I'm still trying to make up my mind..

I'm testing "with", for the moment, but my idea is to make them basically RT-compliant, so...

Spoiler:

You, sir, just won the Internet!

You even did the Sgt stripe with the light coloured trims. Blessings of the Emeror be upon you squire

EDIT: Hold up.. do I suffer from the Mandela effect here? IIRC Crimson Fists had both hands red..?

Only the veterans ^^

And vets would have hash stripes across their helmet stripes as well. The vet sarge would also have the trim color along side of the stripe.

Helmet stripes: not just fashionable, but they tell you a lot about the marine wearing it.

My confidence in painting stripes on another stripe on a 15mm mini only goes so far I'm afraid . I might try it, but dunno xD

That said, I'll probably end up adding the markings directly to the 3d model

Those are some really excellent tiny helmet stripes.

It looks like every Legion had some Painting Channel that painted up the boxed set - ie - Ash did the Raven Guard, Vince did the Alpha Legion, Broadsword Gaming did the Word Bearers, Pete the Wargamer did the World Eaters, SN Battle Reports did Imperial Fists, Table Top Titans did the Night Lords, etc. Who did the Dark Angels? Was that the only Legion that didn't have a Channel paint a legion? Were there any pictures of them at the Horus Heresy Open Day?

Cult of Paint did WS. Haven't noticed who did DA.

JWBS wrote:
Cult of Paint did WS. Haven't noticed who did DA.

Any IWs around? Kinda curious to see how they'd do a whole lotta beakies for them.

boyd wrote:
It looks like every Legion had some Painting Channel that painted up the boxed set - ie - Ash did the Raven Guard, Vince did the Alpha Legion, Broadsword Gaming did the Word Bearers, Pete the Wargamer did the World Eaters, SN Battle Reports did Imperial Fists, Table Top Titans did the Night Lords, etc. Who did the Dark Angels? Was that the only Legion that didn't have a Channel paint a legion? Were there any pictures of them at the Horus Heresy Open Day?

The Dark Angels were stuck in shipping and didn't arrive in time for the event, which led to lots of speculation and broken hearts, but if you go back far enough in this thread I believe someone identified who painted them. They might have pictures of their own up somewhere.

EDIT: Doh, nope. That was Night Lords. Nevermind.

 Albertorius wrote:
Any IWs around? Kinda curious to see how they'd do a whole lotta beakies for them.

Greg Dann of The Imperial Truth did some:

No One Important wrote:

boyd wrote:
It looks like every Legion had some Painting Channel that painted up the boxed set - ie - Ash did the Raven Guard, Vince did the Alpha Legion, Broadsword Gaming did the Word Bearers, Pete the Wargamer did the World Eaters, SN Battle Reports did Imperial Fists, Table Top Titans did the Night Lords, etc. Who did the Dark Angels? Was that the only Legion that didn't have a Channel paint a legion? Were there any pictures of them at the Horus Heresy Open Day?

The Dark Angels were stuck in shipping and didn't arrive in time for the event, which led to lots of speculation and broken hearts, but if you go back far enough in this thread I believe someone identified who painted them. They might have pictures of their own up somewhere.

EDIT: Doh, nope. That was Night Lords. Nevermind.

Found it now - Dark Angels were painted up for the event by Original Applesauce.

beast_gts wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Any IWs around? Kinda curious to see how they'd do a whole lotta beakies for them.

Greg Dann of The Imperial Truth did some:

Spoiler:

Wow, think we can tell why they didn't make it into the IW article

Yeah, not very inspiring.

No hazard stripes on those IW? Blasphemy!

That's uh
4 colours?
And a wash, i think.

No One Important wrote:

No One Important wrote:

boyd wrote:
It looks like every Legion had some Painting Channel that painted up the boxed set - ie - Ash did the Raven Guard, Vince did the Alpha Legion, Broadsword Gaming did the Word Bearers, Pete the Wargamer did the World Eaters, SN Battle Reports did Imperial Fists, Table Top Titans did the Night Lords, etc. Who did the Dark Angels? Was that the only Legion that didn't have a Channel paint a legion? Were there any pictures of them at the Horus Heresy Open Day?

The Dark Angels were stuck in shipping and didn't arrive in time for the event, which led to lots of speculation and broken hearts, but if you go back far enough in this thread I believe someone identified who painted them. They might have pictures of their own up somewhere.

EDIT: Doh, nope. That was Night Lords. Nevermind.

Found it now - Dark Angels were painted up for the event by Original Applesauce.

I think I found my answer - Per Reddit, they were slated to be done by Miniac but he outsourced them to Original Applesauce.

I've seen the following videos:

Box Opening - GMG - https://youtu.be/wRg7m-Xu1kI
Box Opening - Vanguard Tactics - https://youtu.be/8w_yI4rAt8k

Emperor's Children - https://youtu.be/xAiugKyV1X0
World Eaters - https://youtu.be/MzRmgB8lV6g
Word Bearers - https://youtu.be/JIyd2uY7pEQ
Raven Guard - GMG Minis - Probably next week?
Alpha Legion - https://youtu.be/55h4vPnQETM

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, not very inspiring.

Yeah, very quick and dirty. Didn't even do anything with the under-suit, cables and joins. And the leader's cloak and tabard are just washed leather (same as the gun straps) with all edging and details in mono-tones.

On the other hand, they can easily be used as Iron Hands, Silver Skulls or generic chapter #332.

So there’s probably going to be a ton of 30k rule books flooding the secondhand market once this releases?

Voss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, not very inspiring.

Yeah, very quick and dirty. Didn't even do anything with the under-suit, cables and joins. And the leader's cloak and tabard are just washed leather (same as the gun straps) with all edging and details in mono-tones.

On the other hand, they can easily be used as Iron Hands, Silver Skulls or generic chapter #332.

yeah you know it;'s bad when my first reaction on seeing something like that is "......... uhh I could paint that better"

Yeah, poor showing for what was sent to them to literally be part of the promotional material to hype people up.

 blood reaper wrote:
To be honest, I 100% expect (when GW puts out the World Eater codex) for there to be plenty of warbands using the blue and white armour scheme rather than the traditional red and brass - just like they did with the Death Guard.

Im absolutely doing my 40k World Eaters in the preheresy scheme myself

Voss wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

I've also decided that I'm going to buy and box and paint them in Tamiya's transparent candy red and adorn them as Flesh Tearers, with the justification that they're a representation of a Second Founding chapter right at its birth, so carrying a whole bunch of pre-Heresy elements over. I basically just wanted to paint candy red, and I didn't want to do Blood Angels or Word Bearers, and I already have a force of (blue) Thousand Sons, so that's that.

There's been a few indications here and there that, for some Legions, their second founding chapters are existing Chapters within the legion's organization (effectively a Chapter is what we'd probably call a regiment or battalion, a level of organization for companies). Iirc, this came up particularly with the Ultramarines destroyer Chapter in the Roboute Primarch novel.

In any case 'Flesh Tearers' could very well be an informal name for a unit that's been operating independently for a while under a separate expedition fleet or some such.


Also there's the fact that 'official' color schemes are part of the Codex Astartes, which doesn't exist yet. (though it also has camo patterns and distinct environmental color schemes that GW doesn't talk about anymore).

The Flesh Tearers were exactly that, they started out as the 5th company of the Blood Angels. Their first Chapter Master, Nassir Amit, was the Captain of the Company and he was known to spend time in the World Eaters gladiator pits where he became an oath-brother of Kharn and there earned the nickname "the Flesh Tearer" from the World Eaters, which he would later give to his newly formed second founding Blood Angels chapter. He and his company were known for their bloodthirstiness and extreme brutality and were often censured by Sanguinius for going too far.

EDIT - Worth also mentioning that Sigismund and the Black Templars have a similar story. That whole "we chain ourselves to our weapons thing" is a tradition they inherited from the World Eaters, as Sigismund was also a regular in the gladiator pits (where he earned the epithet of "the Black Knight") and similarly oath-bonded himself with Kharn. World Eaters would chain themselves to their weapons so that they could drop them quickly in order to switch from bolter to blade and vice versa without losing the weapon - they used the chain to pull the weapon back to themselves once they had an opportunity to recover it safely (though later on when the butchers nails took its hold amongst the legions it became a matter of necessity otherwise the legion would quickly lose its weapons on the field of battle). Sigismund took that and turned it into a religious oathy crusader thing.

Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

I try not too eaither, I mean it's not bad it's just suprising as useally the people who get these models early are waaay sharper.

or maybe I'm jst getting better and my expectations are raising?

So, the IW painter is Greg Dann. He is one the few in HH gaming/hobbying that persisted through thick and thin over the last, what 10 years? By virture of his standing with HH community he should be given a pass. He and like one other community podcasting group were among the very few flickering flames in the darkness.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

I try not too eaither, I mean it's not bad it's just suprising as useally the people who get these models early are waaay sharper.

or maybe I'm jst getting better and my expectations are raising?

A couple of youtubers put up videos of them painting the models, I have only watched a couple of them but it seemed to me that they probably weren't given enough time to do a high quality paint job on 50 infantry, 2 characters a dreadnought and a tank. That's a lot to paint in anything other than a very basic paint scheme, and it seems like a lot of folk made heavy use of airbrushes and even rattle cans to speed paint them.

That said, I don't really mind that, it's nice to see how people get models done to an okay standard quickly rather than a super high standard so slowly that a regular person would never have the time to do a whole army (at least not before the rules change or GW drops the game).

I'm more critical of GW's painting tutorials because not only are they not a high standard, they also so often do them in a way that is also not quick to paint.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

I try not too eaither, I mean it's not bad it's just suprising as useally the people who get these models early are waaay sharper.

or maybe I'm jst getting better and my expectations are raising?

A couple of youtubers put up videos of them painting the models, I have only watched a couple of them but it seemed to me that they probably weren't given enough time to do a high quality paint job on 50 infantry, 2 characters a dreadnought and a tank. That's a lot to paint in anything other than a very basic paint scheme, and it seems like a lot of folk made heavy use of airbrushes and even rattle cans to speed paint them.

That said, I don't really mind that, it's nice to see how people get models done to an okay standard quickly rather than a super high standard so slowly that a regular person would never have the time to do a whole army (at least not before the rules change or GW drops the game).

I'm more critical of GW's painting tutorials because not only are they not a high standard, they also so often do them in a way that is also not quick to paint.

Yeah, inside the UK they had more time because easier shipping, but the US had like a week and some of them still couldn't make it out of customs so I'm not shocked that things were kept "table top" levels for most people's projects.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

Generally I agree (if Bob wants to show off his guys, I'm not going to wander into P&M and tell him off), but when they're part of a showcase event to show off the legions? That's just weird.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
To be honest, I 100% expect (when GW puts out the World Eater codex) for there to be plenty of warbands using the blue and white armour scheme rather than the traditional red and brass - just like they did with the Death Guard.

Im absolutely doing my 40k World Eaters in the preheresy scheme myself

To be fair, you and everyone else would be perfectly in accordance with Original Canon. The Slaves to Darkness list, iirc, mentioned that World Eater Assault Squads were generally composed of Heresy veterans, where the occasional glimpse of their original blue and white colours could still be seen. For such a throwaway sentence, it had a big effect in making the Eaters feel that little bit more alive to me at the time.

The IW force is clearly unfinished. I imagine the black shoulders were supposed to be chevroned. The rest looks unfinished too, and there's barely any models there. Did someone say they were subbed out to him? It looks like one of them, the painter or the guy that passed them to him, messed up by not leaving enough time.

 themonk wrote:
So, the IW painter is Greg Dann. He is one the few in HH gaming/hobbying that persisted through thick and thin over the last, what 10 years? By virture of his standing with HH community he should be given a pass. He and like one other community podcasting group were among the very few flickering flames in the darkness.

I’ve known Greg for….probably 20 years now. When he champions something, he champions it.

JWBS wrote:
The IW force is clearly unfinished. I imagine the black shoulders were supposed to be chevroned. The rest looks unfinished too, and there's barely any models there. Did someone say they were subbed out to him? It looks like one of them, the painter or the guy that passed them to him, messed up by not leaving enough time.

I don't know the story, but it seems GW didn't leave anyone much time. Zorpazorp, Broadsword Wargaming and Vince Venturella have all posted YT videos up of their adventures with the set and the vibe I get is none of them had a lot of time.

So if someone was supposed to paint them and had to pass them on to someone else, I can only assume that the someone else wouldn't have had much time.

GW have sent out models in the past to community members, it's a great idea but maybe this time they underestimated how long it takes to paint such a big box of models.

Ultramarines today:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Did someone say they were subbed out to him? It looks like one of them, the painter or the guy that passed them to him, messed up by not leaving enough time.

So if someone was supposed to paint them and had to pass them on to someone else, I can only assume that the someone else wouldn't have had much time

I don't know about anyone else, but from GW's perspective, i'd be more then a touch miffed if I'd sent a box like this out to someone for painting/review, and then had that person pass it on to a 3rd part to handle.

 zedmeister wrote:
Ultramarines today:

"Look, just highlight every panel" XD

The time constraint that some had was probably unavoidable. As mentioned, customs and shipping to the US isn't inconsequential. But also these production cycles are pretty fixed, so even if GW had wanted to get the boxes out earlier and given these painters a bit more of a headstart, they might simply not have been able to. Sad, but it is what it is. I personally don't see it as being down to incompetence on anyones part.

Ultramarine looks decent enough!

I take the point on american "influencers" having tougher time constraints to paint their stuff up than others may have done but I mean, it's not a personal attack to say I think the paint job on those IWs is a bit weak, it is what it is. Sure he's a lovely guy and a leading light of the community or whatever

Not seeing how it's weak. It's the basic IW scheme, hazards on every model aren't part of that.
The IW are one of the most utilitarian and unadorned Legions as well, it's kind of their deal that they don't care for loads of ornamentation or fancy schemes. I'd say its an accurate representation.

 ekwatts wrote:
The time constraint that some had was probably unavoidable. As mentioned, customs and shipping to the US isn't inconsequential. But also these production cycles are pretty fixed, so even if GW had wanted to get the boxes out earlier and given these painters a bit more of a headstart, they might simply not have been able to. Sad, but it is what it is. I personally don't see it as being down to incompetence on anyones part.

Even the UK ones seemed very much like "table top standard" rather than "display standard".

Assembling and painting to a mediocre standard might still involve 1 hour per model (which is certainly what I'd call a "speed painted" model), that's 50 hours minimum for the infantry, maybe a couple of hours per character, a few hours for the dread, a few hours for the tank. You'd have to say in the ballpark of 60-80 hours, which is basically 2 weeks working full time for a speed paint job.

It doesn't really bother me and I don't think there's incompetence, but inevitably if they can't get the boxed sets to the community painters a decent amount of time before the deadline all you're going to get is speed painted models and run the risk of them not getting it done at all.

I'm not complaining, my main complaint was that they didn't provide good enough pictures because I'd love to see some of them closer, but maybe they did that because they didn't feel like some of them were good enough quality.

 Gert wrote:
Not seeing how it's weak. It's the basic IW scheme, hazards on every model aren't part of that.
The IW are one of the most utilitarian and unadorned Legions as well, it's kind of their deal that they don't care for loads of ornamentation or fancy schemes. I'd say its an accurate representation.

I'm far from an expert painter but in my subjective view they're not good. Leaving components black with no highlight on is a mistake, it would make anything look unfinished. The bases look bad, you can't see the eyes, the bronze is flat. Some weathering and good bases would offset the "creative choice" to make everything flat silver and black, there are ways to do that well.

Legions of the Horus Heresy – Organise the Ultramarines Into an Unbeatable Force

I see the Alpha Legion managed to sneak one of their own pictures into the Ultramarines article. How appropriate

They left out the two HQs Zorpazorp converted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They left out the two HQs Zorpazorp converted.

Have they given an idea as to when the army list books will be out? I can't really decide what legion to work on and the impression that there are enough changes from 1st edition to this one that the articles going by the older lists won't be accurate. I imagine similar but there still seems like some are going to change quite a bit.

 Ahtman wrote:
Have they given an idea as to when the army list books will be out? I can't really decide what legion to work on and the impression that there are enough changes from 1st edition to this one that the articles going by the older lists won't be accurate. I imagine similar but there still seems like some are going to change quite a bit.

If you are willing, I would advise looking up leaks - which can be found on 4chan and Bolter and Chainsword. So far, the leaks have been one to one with what we've seen so far - and include pretty extensive accounts of points costs, rites of war, etc. - which are imo a huge help for any prospective player.

After the boxset is all we know.

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

Generally I agree (if Bob wants to show off his guys, I'm not going to wander into P&M and tell him off), but when they're part of a showcase event to show off the legions? That's just weird.

Personally, I like seeing paint jobs that reflect what the average player can actually accomplish, instead of super high detail work that only people with a spare 40 hours a week for painting and ten years experience can do. I thought those IW were pretty good, certainly much better than anything I've painted in the last few years.

 privateer4hire wrote:
So there’s probably going to be a ton of 30k rule books flooding the secondhand market once this releases?

I'm good with that. If I play this at all, it'll be with the ample model supply I have already.

 gorgon wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
So there’s probably going to be a ton of 30k rule books flooding the secondhand market once this releases?

I'm good with that. If I play this at all, it'll be with the ample model supply I have already.

Cool. I was thinking of those who had zero use for the rules and who wanted to sell to offset the price. I’m guessing it will be a buyer’s market.

Is this a plastic Deredeo? Someone mentioned to me that the missiles in the pod look different to the current resin ones.

Edit: Nevermind it's a studio Deredeo that's been around for a while...

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

Generally I agree (if Bob wants to show off his guys, I'm not going to wander into P&M and tell him off), but when they're part of a showcase event to show off the legions? That's just weird.

Personally, I like seeing paint jobs that reflect what the average player can actually accomplish, instead of super high detail work that only people with a spare 40 hours a week for painting and ten years experience can do. I thought those IW were pretty good, certainly much better than anything I've painted in the last few years.

That's... uh... generous. 'Average players' generally paint the undersuit joints and put a second color on _raised_ tabard and cloak edges without any problems. I've never, in person, (apart from Chapter Gray Plastic or Chapter Spray Primer) seen those done as solid one-colors. That isn't asking a lot of a display army.

I mean they look a lot like my stuff does. I don't drybrush or highlight my IW and I don't do a different colour for the undersuit, why bother?
The only problem with the MkVI is there is no trim for the bronze so it doesn't have that extra contrast on the shoulder pads. It's not the fault of the painter IMO just how the armour is. The Sergeant with the upgrade pack head looks better but swapping out the MkVI pads for MkIII or even MkIV would allow for the bronze trim to make the model pop that bit more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So WHW has sent out an email saying that as only the Legion rules will be available for July, people can swap their July event ticket for one dated for November. Seems to suggest that all the HH armies will be available by then which is cool.

Well I am still on edge should I go for Heresy but one thing I would go for is swapping helmets, all of them. Beakies just don't hit with me for 30k.

And another thing I am considering is making bolts on legs by green stuff. Left, right, both and it should quite easy and fast to make some differences.

And on bare legs you could add some flames or golden engravings.

It seems like we're getting super close to preorder as I'm actually seeing unboxing videos start to appear. Initially I assumed a June 5 preorder announcement with a two week window.

I'm starting to think that isn't quite so crazy at this point.

I think the main question with the pre-order is whether they want to get all the Legion previews out first or not - June 4th is possible, but I'd find it annoying, as I'll be at UK Games Expo, which would get in the way of placing a pre-order, y'know?

 Gert wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So WHW has sent out an email saying that as only the Legion rules will be available for July, people can swap their July event ticket for one dated for November. Seems to suggest that all the HH armies will be available by then which is cool.

Suggests they'll all have their announced PDF rules by then, doesn't really suggest they'll have their books by then.

 Dysartes wrote:
I think the main question with the pre-order is whether they want to get all the Legion previews out first or not - June 4th is possible, but I'd find it annoying, as I'll be at UK Games Expo, which would get in the way of placing a pre-order, y'know?

I don't actually. I just tell my FLGS when I want something, they take my name down and do the rest for me.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Suggests they'll all have their announced PDF rules by then, doesn't really suggest they'll have their books by then.

The PDF thing wasn't meaning full rules PDFs, at least not from my second reading, but rather just units that won't be in the newer books for one reason or another similar to Legends.
Why would GW go through the effort of making every army a PDF then sell a full book in the months after the initial release? It's not like the 40k Marine supplements with like 10 units or so where the army can be played entirely without the supplement.

Voss wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

Generally I agree (if Bob wants to show off his guys, I'm not going to wander into P&M and tell him off), but when they're part of a showcase event to show off the legions? That's just weird.

Personally, I like seeing paint jobs that reflect what the average player can actually accomplish, instead of super high detail work that only people with a spare 40 hours a week for painting and ten years experience can do. I thought those IW were pretty good, certainly much better than anything I've painted in the last few years.

That's... uh... generous. 'Average players' generally paint the undersuit joints and put a second color on _raised_ tabard and cloak edges without any problems. I've never, in person, (apart from Chapter Gray Plastic or Chapter Spray Primer) seen those done as solid one-colors. That isn't asking a lot of a display army.

Hearing someone say 'I've never seen solid color tabards and cloaks before' is the hobby equivalent of the 'It's one banana, how much could it cost, 10$?" meme.

ERJAK wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Eh, even if I'm not a fan of the paint scheme I have trouble poo-pooing on people's paint jobs. Not all these people were competitive miniature painters after all.

Generally I agree (if Bob wants to show off his guys, I'm not going to wander into P&M and tell him off), but when they're part of a showcase event to show off the legions? That's just weird.

Personally, I like seeing paint jobs that reflect what the average player can actually accomplish, instead of super high detail work that only people with a spare 40 hours a week for painting and ten years experience can do. I thought those IW were pretty good, certainly much better than anything I've painted in the last few years.

That's... uh... generous. 'Average players' generally paint the undersuit joints and put a second color on _raised_ tabard and cloak edges without any problems. I've never, in person, (apart from Chapter Gray Plastic or Chapter Spray Primer) seen those done as solid one-colors. That isn't asking a lot of a display army.

Hearing someone say 'I've never seen solid color tabards and cloaks before' is the hobby equivalent of the 'It's one banana, how much could it cost, 10$?" meme.

What kind of gibberish are you typing?
Is there something unclear about how strange it is for someone to paint over details for a display showcase?

 Dysartes wrote:
I think the main question with the pre-order is whether they want to get all the Legion previews out first or not - June 4th is possible, but I'd find it annoying, as I'll be at UK Games Expo, which would get in the way of placing a pre-order, y'know?

Assuming they don’t break the one-a-weekday pattern they’ve done so far, the legion previews will be done by the 4th, and that’s the earliest it will be now as we know next weeks preorders. So that isn’t really a question at all.

Death Guard today:




Far too clean a scheme for Death Guard

Voss wrote:
What kind of gibberish are you typing?
Is there something unclear about how strange it is for someone to paint over details for a display showcase?

I tend to agree with you that for a display army its not great.

But the idea you've never "in person" seen someone paint a tabard or cloak as single solid colour feels like a stretch. Hence the meme.
Frankly I'd say the moment people are putting additional colours on raised tabard and cloak edges, you are into an above average paint job. I'd do it now - but I didn't for years.

 zedmeister wrote:
Death Guard today:




Far too clean a scheme for Death Guard

Using the sponge technic would work here at the best.

Armour too clean - Base too unclean.

Tyel wrote:

Voss wrote:
What kind of gibberish are you typing?
Is there something unclear about how strange it is for someone to paint over details for a display showcase?

I tend to agree with you that for a display army its not great.

But the idea you've never "in person" seen someone paint a tabard or cloak as single solid colour feels like a stretch. Hence the meme.
Frankly I'd say the moment people are putting additional colours on raised tabard and cloak edges, you are into an above average paint job. I'd do it now - but I didn't for years.

To add my own .02 in: I'm just happy when I see a painted army, or at least an army that isn't just primed black (which is the most common thing I see besides unpainted models).

Legions of the Horus Heresy – The Death Guard Trade Glory for Guts… Lots of Guts

Hot damn, that's spicy.

It was really unfortunate for the Death Guard that they all forgot how to use heavy weapons after the Heresy.

Tyel wrote:

Voss wrote:
What kind of gibberish are you typing?
Is there something unclear about how strange it is for someone to paint over details for a display showcase?

I tend to agree with you that for a display army its not great.

But the idea you've never "in person" seen someone paint a tabard or cloak as single solid colour feels like a stretch. Hence the meme.
Frankly I'd say the moment people are putting additional colours on raised tabard and cloak edges, you are into an above average paint job. I'd do it now - but I didn't for years.

I don't know what to tell you, when I've met people who bother to paint their armies, they actually do that. Not just do a metallic spray and block-base coat a couple surfaces.
The 'meme' stuff is still gibberish.

Guys, we're only human. All of the creators painted their models on top of their other obligations to get the models ready in time for the event. There are lots of people who have regular day job and do all of their content in their spare time. I spent almost 50 hours on my Primarch alone, mostly during night time, and the box has over 50 models, do the math how long it'd take you.

Looks like they cleaned up the wording on the deathguard faction rule since the leaks.

As a salamanders fan, I'm a little bit tickled that death guard are no longer being defined in the rules as particularly tough, just hard to slow down. They won't have the same durability as the iron hands / salamanders will.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
It was really unfortunate for the Death Guard that they all forgot how to use heavy weapons after the Heresy.

All those tentacles and antlers and boils get in the way.

beast_gts wrote:

Have to say, I'm a little wary of them continuing the flowery but unintuitive USR naming schemes. 'Remorseless' is not a label I would choose for ignoring movement modifiers. Or does everyone else only slow down in terrain because they feel really guilty about trampling the foliage?

Remorseless does have a second meaning that is more fitting to what the rule is portraying: "(of something unpleasant) never ending or improving; relentless."

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remorseless does have a second meaning that is more fitting to what the rule is portraying: "(of something unpleasant) never ending or improving; relentless."

"Relentless" already exists as a USR (as does "Slow and Purposeful").


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hobbyists Pick a Side for Warhammer: The Horus Heresy

 stahly wrote:
Guys, we're only human

Speak for yourself!

 stahly wrote:
Guys, we're only human.

Only human? You say that as if humanity isn't the pinnacle of existence, capable of making the impossible possible through sheer force of will and a case of illegal Japanese energy drinks.

 stahly wrote:
Guys, we're only human. All of the creators painted their models on top of their other obligations to get the models ready in time for the event. There are lots of people who have regular day job and do all of their content in their spare time. I spent almost 50 hours on my Primarch alone, mostly during night time, and the box has over 50 models, do the math how long it'd take you.

If a creator is overwhelmed, are they allowed to request to decline receiving for such an event?
Rhetorical question since I am pretty sure that falls under the NDA.
Seems like GW would be smart to excuse someone who doesn’t feel they can commit the necessary time rather than risk burning someone out.
Since they are essentially paying for a service, you would think they at least contact the channels beforehand to ensure they have availability to properly do what they’re being asked.

 privateer4hire wrote:

 stahly wrote:
Guys, we're only human. All of the creators painted their models on top of their other obligations to get the models ready in time for the event. There are lots of people who have regular day job and do all of their content in their spare time. I spent almost 50 hours on my Primarch alone, mostly during night time, and the box has over 50 models, do the math how long it'd take you.

If a creator is overwhelmed, are they allowed to request to decline receiving for such an event?
Rhetorical question since I am pretty sure that falls under the NDA.
Seems like GW would be smart to excuse someone who doesn’t feel they can commit the necessary time rather than risk burning someone out.
Since they are essentially paying for a service, you would think they at least contact the channels beforehand to ensure they have availability to properly do what they’re being asked.

Sounds like you want people to plan in advance for their obligations with no flexibility for other stuff coming up.

Did this already get shared here?

It's the paper sprue-book separator from the box. What about it?

I just was curious if it had been posted or not. Supposedly, that's a new Contemptor.

Oh yeah it has an asscannon in the picture but it's not on the sprue in the box.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

Did this already get shared here?

The contemptor in the picture is the plastic one that we've seen BUT it has parts from a not yet shown upgrade sprue.

You can see the Relic Contemptor details on the front and a Kheres assault cannon, neither of which is in the box set.

It's also clear from the sprues that there's a regular Land Raider coming, as the sponsons can be built with either 4 or 2 lascannon.

Ash also suspects a plastic Leviathan dread, because the one in the book is based the same as the new box set plastics, rather than older models, so it was painted at the same time.

 catbarf wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Have to say, I'm a little wary of them continuing the flowery but unintuitive USR naming schemes. 'Remorseless' is not a label I would choose for ignoring movement modifiers. Or does everyone else only slow down in terrain because they feel really guilty about trampling the foliage?

You are correct. Remorseless is quite weak for a name. How about:

- Juggernaut
- Unstoppable
- Tireless
- Endurance

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 stahly wrote:
Guys, we're only human. All of the creators painted their models on top of their other obligations to get the models ready in time for the event. There are lots of people who have regular day job and do all of their content in their spare time. I spent almost 50 hours on my Primarch alone, mostly during night time, and the box has over 50 models, do the math how long it'd take you.

If a creator is overwhelmed, are they allowed to request to decline receiving for such an event?
Rhetorical question since I am pretty sure that falls under the NDA.
Seems like GW would be smart to excuse someone who doesn’t feel they can commit the necessary time rather than risk burning someone out.
Since they are essentially paying for a service, you would think they at least contact the channels beforehand to ensure they have availability to properly do what they’re being asked.

Sounds like you want people to plan in advance for their obligations with no flexibility for other stuff coming up.

Nope. I am asking if gw routinely contact their content creators before they send them a ton of free stuff to showcase just to make reasonably sure the creators have availability. People have work projects, vacations, family illness, etc. that could derail a creator from getting $300 big box ready by date X. Stuff will happen but gw is paying in product for a service. Probably a good idea to confirm they have the time to meet a deadline.

beast_gts wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remorseless does have a second meaning that is more fitting to what the rule is portraying: "(of something unpleasant) never ending or improving; relentless."

"Relentless" already exists as a USR (as does "Slow and Purposeful").


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hobbyists Pick a Side for Warhammer: The Horus Heresy

Spoiler:

Ahhh yes, Horus Heresy Superfans, like Ninjon and Miniac....

https://youtu.be/0eC1mRKmAiY?t=6892