I haven't seen this posted anywhere else, so I thought I'd give you all a treat...

Some stuff regarding the new Space Marines Codex:

It is the next one to be released, but I was not told about the release date.

The codex is not Ultramarines heavy. There will be a much broader spectrum of Chapters.

There will be supplements for the more famous chapters: Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and White Scars were the ones mentioned. White Scars are the first out the gate.

The cover of the new dex has apparently got Sicarius on the front, while the White Scar Codex has a bike squadron racing towards the enemy.

No clue on authors. Rumour is Ward, but hell, he's rumoured for all of them right?

No rules that I can give you, but you can expect to see loads of new weapons and squads. Possible inclusions are the Land Raider Terminus (I think that's what it's called - it's festooned with Lascannons), a bigger form of Terminator and a rather large Dreadnought that is similar to a Contemptor - only bigger.

That's all I got.

Enjoy.

Puscifer wrote:
...but you can expect to see loads of new weapons and squads...

New weapons. New squads. Loads. In a MARINES codex?

Puscifer wrote:
There will be supplements for the more famous chapters: Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and White Scars were the ones mentioned. White Scars are the first out the gate.

Thus we enter the age when GW saw fit to release full-price hardback "companion" books that are nothing but fluff and a few rules changes.

And here I was thinking 6th Ed was an actual improvement. Christ... how fething depressing...

What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

Puscifer wrote:


No rules that I can give you, but you can expect to see loads of new weapons and squads

Take it with a grain of salt, but my sources say it will have Rhinos.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

Yes. At $50 US each. You want a White Scars army? Get ready to drop $100.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

*slaps SoloFalcon*

You bought 1 Codex. Then you book a little booklet that cost no where near as much. These are full-sized hardback books that cost as much as the full Codex and have less content in them than your average WD. When I pay eighty-fething-dollars for a hard-back book I want FFG levels of content (and the FFG books cost HALF that).

And you damn-well know that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

*slaps SoloFalcon*

You bought 1 Codex. Then you book a little booklet that cost no where near as much. These are full-sized hardback books that cost as much as the full Codex and have less content in them than your average WD. When I pay eighty-fething-dollars for a hard-back book I want FFG levels of content (and the FFG books cost HALF that).

And you damn-well know that.

Are your codex's a lot more expensive than ours? I paid £24 for my Eldar codex which comes to $37?

Are our Codices more expensive?

You're... new here aren't you?

Equivalent to 50 pounds RRP, shamikebab

Depressing.

Of course it will have something like a Contemptor only BIGGER. Jiminy Christmas. Why update the old stuff, bringing it up to speed with the better designed somewhat newer stuff, when you can just nerf everything that people already own to force them to buy the shiny new Saturday morning cartoon dinobot nonsense that GW cranks out these days?

And I realize that no one is LITERALLY forcing anyone to buy these new things, so lets just cut that incredibly tired argument off before we waste digits in the Internet. Anyone frequenting Dakka and watching GW's releases over the last several years can easily see that GW has been ignoring fans quite persistently - almost comically or spitefully so.

The last really good release was Necrons. Solid revamp, new units that were well designed (visually, not necessarily rules wise) and no egregious money sink that was a must include due to super overpowered rules (even the really effective flyers are still pretty reasonably priced!)

Dark Eldar was even better - a high water mark even. What has Jes Goodwin been doing since then? Dark Eldar proved beyond any doubt that not only is he an incredibly talented sculptor and designer, but that he and the team around him can put together some awesome models, a wide variety of them, with various different kinds of themes possible (warrior-centered, Wych cults, Haemonculus covens, etc.) while still keeping a good unified core aesthetic. If they had him working on more stuff, even just a little, I couldn't help myself from buying almost anything he was associated with. But instead we get the Maulerfiend, Heldrake, and WHERE ARE THE NEW ELDAR JETBIKES?

You vey, did not intend to rant that much. I'd LOVE to see new Goodwin designed Space Marine models (or models whose design he oversaw) but I know we're gonna get some cheesy crud that will be way nastier on the tabletop than many much better designed models. The only plus is that this means I can concentrate on my existing armies (Necron, Eldar + Dark Eldar, Chaos with none of the stupid dinobots) and not see more of my money go to support GW's awful design, rules "development" and giving the finger to the fans.

Ok, rant really over this time.

-C6

And I bet the new ubernaught (assuming it exists) will be a Monstrous Creature, since Walkers suck. They should have just made all the walkers MCs since that's how it's shaping out to be.

You can't nerf a Marine Son.

They are the cornerstone of 40k.

As for Necrons being a solid release with good rules... JUST NO!!! I stopped playing Necrons because of the new rules. Broken beyond belief, the models were subpar and the fluff was all fist bumpy friendly BULL****!!!

Dark Eldar though, got it right.

That was my favourite release.

Seeing as Hastings (whose rumours should probably be considered fact) already mentioned the releases for the new SM codex were some sort of new suit in size between a terminator and a dreadnought, and some new rhino chassis variant, I'm taking this 'supernought' rumour with lots of salt.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are our Codices more expensive?

You're... new here aren't you?

I didn't realise they were twice as much as UK!

 shamikebab wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are our Codices more expensive?

You're... new here aren't you?

I didn't realise US prices were twice as much as UK!

Check the australian prices (those are australian flags by fattdex and h.m.b.c)

Are your codex's a lot more expensive than ours? I paid £24 for my Eldar codex which comes to $37?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH *gasps for air* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha...hah...hee..hooo..*wipes tear from eye*

Thank you, Shamikebab, I haven't laughed like that since I was a little girl.

Codexes (Codici? Codepodes?) are $83 here in 'Straya, equivalent to roughly 60 Euro, which given that it is listed as 38 euro on the French GW site...is somewhat disheartening.

Also, "Chevaliers Gris"? Damn you and your beautiful language.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are our Codices more expensive?

You're... new here aren't you?

I didn't realise US prices were twice as much as UK!

Check the australian prices (those are australian flags by fattdex and h.m.b.c)

Yes I realised that and edited

Also, not French. Just work for a French company in the UK with an odd Network infrastructure...

Funny how all those "rumours" about Space Marines getting supplement Codexes only start dropping after we've seen the Iyanden book.

Surely, if someone had this kind of info, it would've made sense to spill that 3 weeks ago and immortalize yourself forever as the go-to rumour-monger.

If this holds any modicum of truth, I'm rather surprised that the Black Templars aren't getting supplemental codex treatment first.

 BrookM wrote:
If this holds any modicum of truth, I'm rather surprised that the Black Templars aren't getting supplemental codex treatment first.

Why should they?

They have their own Codex. Though it be interesting to see what supplement-books they come up with for the Templars.

Black Templars have been been removed from the store as an army unto their selves, instead they can now be found under the Space Marines section of the on-line store.

 BrookM wrote:
Black Templars have been been removed from the store as an army unto their selves, instead they can now be found under the Space Marines section of the on-line store.

Its been that way since I got back into the hobby a couple years ago. Dark Angels were listed there until the new codex dropped.

 BrookM wrote:
Black Templars have been been removed from the store as an army unto their selves, instead they can now be found under the Space Marines section of the on-line store.

They haven't been removed.

They have always been there.

As were they Dark Angels before January 2013 and the Blood Angels before their 5th Edition Codex.

 Breotan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

Yes. At $50 US each. You want a White Scars army? Get ready to drop $100.

So let me see if I get this. In order to play Iyanden I also need codex eldar? Sorry if this seems silly, but since the RRT KS I've hardly paid any attention to 40k for the last couple of weeks. I'm asking also cause the only marine army I collect is templars.

not really. paint them however you want. but there are certain units that Iyanden has rhat are unique that you'd need the book for.

 Breotan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

Yes. At $50 US each. You want a White Scars army? Get ready to drop $100.

Iyanden supplement was not the same price as the codex. It may still be too expensive, but at least get your facts straight. I've seen codex price supplement repeated so many times that it seems that most people actually believe that this is the case.

Now I know they meant to say Black Templars instead of Imperial Fists......right?

What about the Thunderhawk with spring-loaded missiles?

 Malika2 wrote:
What about the Thunderhawk with spring-loaded missiles?

We already have a chibi version. It's called the stormraven or stormturkey by some.lol

 Zweischneid wrote:
Funny how all those "rumours" about Space Marines getting supplement Codexes only start dropping after we've seen the Iyanden book.

Surely, if someone had this kind of info, it would've made sense to spill that 3 weeks ago and immortalize yourself forever as the go-to rumour-monger.

If I knew about this three weeks ago, I would have posted about it.

Also having not seen a Contemptor for a scale reference, I would think that the ubernought as you put it is the Contemptor GW style.

 catharsix wrote:
Why update the old stuff, bringing it up to speed with the better designed somewhat newer stuff, when you can just nerf everything that people already own to force them to buy the shiny new
*snip*

-C6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI


They didn't do that to eldar, they didn't do that to tau, they didn't do that to DA, and they only kind of did that to CSM (but in that case, the 'must have 100' of thing comes in the starter box and is already to be had on ebay for under a quarter a model.

This just in, the new dread knight is so large it fits two pilots, one dead, the other a close friend, alive, bound by rage from his fallen brother and so cries when he isnt near him so they bung em both in a dread knight suit.

 catharsix wrote:
If they had him working on more stuff, even just a little, I couldn't help myself from buying almost anything he was associated with. But instead we get the Maulerfiend, Heldrake, and WHERE ARE THE NEW ELDAR JETBIKES?

Well, supposedly he was responsible for the heldrake. I don't know if he sculpted it but I recall someone saying he designed it.

So if that's true then having Jes oversee a project won't even save you from stupid-looking models. Speaking of stupid models I think he was also responsible for the XV8 crisis suits and not only are they silly-looking, but they're easily one of the worst plastic kits I've ever assembled.

Even though I would like to get me hands on a massive dread type thing I do find it hard to justify the need for contemptors or normal dreads now that these things would be established in the fluff.

Puscifer wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Funny how all those "rumours" about Space Marines getting supplement Codexes only start dropping after we've seen the Iyanden book.

Surely, if someone had this kind of info, it would've made sense to spill that 3 weeks ago and immortalize yourself forever as the go-to rumour-monger.

If I knew about this three weeks ago, I would have posted about it.

Also having not seen a Contemptor for a scale reference, I would think that the ubernought as you put it is the Contemptor GW style.

I don't think I coined the term "ubernought". And I would highly doubt it has anything to do with the Contemptor. People keep bringing up the idea of porting things from Forge World into GW-main releases every single Codex release, and it never happens (luckily, I might add, cause I find most of the Forge World stuff to be rather underwhelming, including the Contemptors).

But yeah, whatever the next Codex(es) is(are) going to be, it'll have

a) a large Walker
b) two Flyers
c) one or more Supplement Codexes
d) a new Elite unit created by turning an existing non-Plastic unit into a multi-purpose plastic-kit
e) 50-60% chance of a new single HQ/Character kit in plastic in-line with the Aspiring Champion/Fireblade/Farseer
f) Codex covers are going to be close-ups of iconic units/HQ choices (e.g. White Scars, if they do it, would be a Bike, Ravenguard would be a Jump Pack Marine, Templars would be a Champion or Sword Brethren, etc... )

Also, the basic Tactical Space Marines will move to a box of 5 instead of 10.

Doesn't take "rumours" to know this will be in the pipeline for the next few Codexes. Quite the opposite. It would take "rumours" and/or inside information to say the next Codex will deviate from this release template.

Oh yeah I wonder what the single plastic fig will be?
I am ruling out a captain snce it is a very customiseable kit already so I am going to bet on a librarian or chaplain.

I want Blood Ravens!!!!!

For plastic fig, my money is on either Libby, Chappy or Terminator Captain.

As for the Tac squad, yup... box of five is a strong possibility.

Of course they will make the basic tactical marine box twice as expensive...have to milk us for all we have hahaa.

The Space Marine tactical box has been the core gateway product of the whole 40K range since its inception (besidesthe box game of course). They have probably sold more than any other model in the history of GW and for a reasonable price.

If they take the 'Dire Avenger' route it will certainly be an erm...'brave' move on the part of GW.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Doesn't take "rumours" to know this will be in the pipeline for the next few Codexes. Quite the opposite. It would take "rumours" and/or inside information to say the next Codex will deviate from this release template.

Whoa, someone else can extrapolate from past releases. I am no longer alone.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Funny how all those "rumours" about Space Marines getting supplement Codexes only start dropping after we've seen the Iyanden book.

Surely, if someone had this kind of info, it would've made sense to spill that 3 weeks ago and immortalize yourself forever as the go-to rumour-monger.

If I knew about this three weeks ago, I would have posted about it.

Also having not seen a Contemptor for a scale reference, I would think that the ubernought as you put it is the Contemptor GW style.

I don't think I coined the term "ubernought". And I would highly doubt it has anything to do with the Contemptor. People keep bringing up the idea of porting things from Forge World into GW-main releases every single Codex release, and it never happens (luckily, I might add, cause I find most of the Forge World stuff to be rather underwhelming, including the Contemptors).

But yeah, whatever the next Codex(es) is(are) going to be, it'll have

a) a large Walker
b) two Flyers
c) one or more Supplement Codexes
d) a new Elite unit created by turning an existing non-Plastic unit into a multi-purpose plastic-kit
e) 50-60% chance of a new single HQ/Character kit in plastic in-line with the Aspiring Champion/Fireblade/Farseer
f) Codex covers are going to be close-ups of iconic units/HQ choices (e.g. White Scars, if they do it, would be a Bike, Ravenguard would be a Jump Pack Marine, Templars would be a Champion or Sword Brethren, etc... )

Also, the basic Tactical Space Marines will move to a box of 5 instead of 10.

Doesn't take "rumours" to know this will be in the pipeline for the next few Codexes. Quite the opposite. It would take "rumours" and/or inside information to say the next Codex will deviate from this release template.

Add him to the list Pretre!

I hope they put a dreadnought inside a bigger dreadnought, slap an oval base on it and charge us 100$

Cypher-xv wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
What about the Thunderhawk with spring-loaded missiles?

We already have a chibi version. It's called the stormraven or stormturkey by some.lol

The sad thing here is that I was being bloody serious... :(

I hope it's called a Stormknight.

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope they put a dreadnought inside a bigger dreadnought, slap an oval base on it and charge us 100$

It will be a DreadKnight-style baby carrier, but for a Dreadnought! It will be called the DreadKnightNought, and will cost $120.

As much as I'm excited as a Marine collector since the RTB01 days, the emphasis of the past few releases has me cringing at what they're going to try to pass off this time. Thankfully I don't have any model budget left to spend on anything less than fantastic, so I'm pretty sure I'm safe for a while.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope it's called a Stormknight.

I think nearly all bad-weather conditions are fair game for Vanilla Marines

Storm-
Tornado-
Lighting-
Thunder-
Whirlwind-
Tempest-
Typhoon-
Hurricane-

etc...

You do run out after a while though

Rain
Sleet
Snow
Windy
Nippy

 Malika2 wrote:

Cypher-xv wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
What about the Thunderhawk with spring-loaded missiles?

We already have a chibi version. It's called the stormraven or stormturkey by some.lol

The sad thing here is that I was being bloody serious... :(

Until then, have fun with this dropship by Angry Badger (soon to be released):
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/505137.page

 Zweischneid wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope it's called a Stormknight.

I think nearly all bad-weather conditions are fair game for Vanilla Marines

Storm-
Tornado-
Lighting-
Thunder-
Whirlwind-
Tempest-
Typhoon-
Hurricane-

etc...

Exactly. I mean, Stormknight is about as lazy as Wraithknight when it comes to names, but at least it fits with Marine nomenclature as you say.

Thunderknight sounds silly. All the rest sound worse. Stormknight works though, for some reason.

What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

In 1998 in the US the main 3rd Edition Codex Space Marines was $15 and the Space Wolves and Dark Angels add-on books were $10 each. So it cost a total of $25 to run a non-Codex chapter with its own supplemental Codex. Those were all very slim books deliberately designed to be economically priced, but fans clamored for a return to thicker books with more background material, so 4th Edition returned to more substantial books that started at $20 US when first released and that eventually increased to $33 before the change to hard back books.

Now it is 15 years since the start of 3rd Edition and we'd expect it to cost more now, especially since 3rd Edition had those ultra slim Codex books, However, $49.50 per Codex (and Army) book is fairly steep and the idea that the add-on books for specific Chapters, Craftworlds, Ork Clans, etc. will essentially double that cost will not be an easy sell for a lot of customers. Codex Iyanden consists of very few pages of essential game rules, the rest is background and artwork.

While it's true that much of GW's competition is now charging similar prices for rule books I am again wondering as to whether or not GW is concerned about actually growing rather than shrinking their existing customer base. They've already lost a lot to other systems and hobbies and the price increases of the past two years haven't helped. Some of their current model prices are absurd. They can't succeed long-term if their customer base keeps shrinking. And when one person leaves the GW hobby their friends often follow, further eroding the customer base. This is not a good sustainable situation for GW or its remaining customers.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Exactly. I mean, Stormknight is about as lazy as Wraithknight when it comes to names, but at least it fits with Marine nomenclature as you say.

Thunderknight sounds silly. All the rest sound worse. Stormknight works though, for some reason.

But Privateer kinda has that one in the bag.

I like Tempestknight. Gives nice Google Search Results. Nippyknight is a strong favourite too . I'll probably call mine Nippy the Tempest Knight!

Well Nippy can fight my Khornemower, Lord Skullington Wexford the Third.

I am still calling BT as first supplement book.

I find UM and IF books laughable as they are strictest adherents to the Codex Astartes there are. What possible deviations would they invent to justify them getting supplements?

Puscifer wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Funny how all those "rumours" about Space Marines getting supplement Codexes only start dropping after we've seen the Iyanden book.

Surely, if someone had this kind of info, it would've made sense to spill that 3 weeks ago and immortalize yourself forever as the go-to rumour-monger.

If I knew about this three weeks ago, I would have posted about it.

Also having not seen a Contemptor for a scale reference, I would think that the ubernought as you put it is the Contemptor GW style.

Scale picture below. I'm not sure what the ubernought is a reference to, but I would think something entirely different. Cannibalizing one of FW's better sellers doesn't seem like a good idea.

 SickSix wrote:
I am still calling BT as first supplement book.

I find UM and IF books laughable as they are strictest adherents to the Codex Astartes there are. What possible deviations would they invent to justify them getting supplements?

Why couldn't the BT come in the IF book? They are a branch of the IF, same as the CFs, and I think I'd actually enjoy having a "Sons of Dorn" supplement book. The book could be broken down into sections outlining each group and giving the necessary units and characters in each of the three sections. I'm a BT fan, but a Sons of Dorn supplement would be a dream for me. Yes, I realize they play differently, but it would be doable, get the BT brought up to speed while not actually putting them in the "space marine codex", as GW said they weren't doing. It's a win win, honestly, I don't see a loss doing it this way.

 SickSix wrote:
I am still calling BT as first supplement book.

I find UM and IF books laughable as they are strictest adherents to the Codex Astartes there are. What possible deviations would they invent to justify them getting supplements?

How about... 1 psychic power, a new warlord table and a half-dozen chapter specific relics?

As I play Black Templars and Crimson Fists, I'd totally buy a Sons of Dorn supplement.

Limited Edition, even.

A sons of Dorn supplement could have a BT list then characters, fluff and equipment for all three.

 shamikebab wrote:
A sons of Dorn supplement could have a BT list then characters, fluff and equipment for all three.

Sarpedon and his boys feel lonely. They want in too!

I have nothing to say but "Meh". Everybody gets a giant model is lame. Why is Forgeworld so, so much better than regular GW?

 kronk wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Funny how all those "rumours" about Space Marines getting supplement Codexes only start dropping after we've seen the Iyanden book.

Surely, if someone had this kind of info, it would've made sense to spill that 3 weeks ago and immortalize yourself forever as the go-to rumour-monger.

If I knew about this three weeks ago, I would have posted about it.

Also having not seen a Contemptor for a scale reference, I would think that the ubernought as you put it is the Contemptor GW style.

Scale picture below. I'm not sure what the ubernought is a reference to, but I would think something entirely different. Cannibalizing one of FW's better sellers doesn't seem like a good idea.

Ahhhh thanks for that.

Tbh, I think a bigger version would look awesome.

I don't care much for it's arms though.

 Alpharius wrote:

Add him to the list Pretre!

Speculation.

I'm going to add Puscifer though since he is posting it as rumors.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
I am still calling BT as first supplement book.

I find UM and IF books laughable as they are strictest adherents to the Codex Astartes there are. What possible deviations would they invent to justify them getting supplements?

Why couldn't the BT come in the IF book? They are a branch of the IF, same as the CFs, and I think I'd actually enjoy having a "Sons of Dorn" supplement book. The book could be broken down into sections outlining each group and giving the necessary units and characters in each of the three sections. I'm a BT fan, but a Sons of Dorn supplement would be a dream for me. Yes, I realize they play differently, but it would be doable, get the BT brought up to speed while not actually putting them in the "space marine codex", as GW said they weren't doing. It's a win win, honestly, I don't see a loss doing it this way.

if they do it like that, basically First Founding books that also include notable successors, that would be cool.

But Salamanders and IH need books of their own as well.

Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

 BryllCream wrote:
Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

Did you miss the part where he said that Codex: SM was going to be generic for all marines? So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

In regards to the 5-man tactical squad boxes, we already have those (albeit as those snap-fit types) http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440273a&prodId=prod1060075

They're currently £15.50 to the 10-man's £23. Maybe we'll see the 10-man box bumped to £30-ish?
Glad I bought all mine already in any case.
If we get another baby-carrier, I'll be proxying a Contemptor instead I think. I do hope we get a box of vanguard vets (and that they get made viable), however.
I'd also like to see apothecaries return as SC.

 Flood wrote:
In regards to the 5-man tactical squad boxes, we already have those (albeit as those snap-fit types) http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440273a&prodId=prod1060075

They're currently £15.50 to the 10-man's £23. Maybe we'll see the 10-man box bumped to £30-ish?
Glad I bought all mine already in any case.
If we get another baby-carrier, I'll be proxying a Contemptor instead I think. I do hope we get a box of vanguard vets (and that they get made viable), however.

Those aren't snap-fits.

No? I stand corrected then.

 pretre wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

Did you miss the part where he said that Codex: SM was going to be generic for all marines? So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

I think that is the point he is trying to make. Apart from special characters and the Tyranid Hunter unit (who could easily be represented by Sternguard with Preferred Enemy:Tyranids), Ultramarines don't really have any special sauce. They are the definition of a codex chapter.

As for the supplements, I am all for them but I think they should combine more than one chapter/legion/craftworld into each book. You don't really need pages and pages of background for a sub faction when they will probably have a pretty decent outline of their history in the main codex anyway (Codex Eldar gives you all the info about Iyanden's background you really need imo).

I will likely pick up the Biel Tan supplement if they do one though as my Eldar army has a lot of aspect warriors in it.

 rohansoldier wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

Did you miss the part where he said that Codex: SM was going to be generic for all marines? So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

I think that is the point he is trying to make. Apart from special characters and the Tyranid Hunter unit (who could easily be represented by Sternguard with Preferred Enemy:Tyranids), Ultramarines don't really have any special sauce. They are the definition of a codex chapter.

Why would that stop them from making a supplement?

These are the snap fit Space Marines.

I'm hopeful that there won't be a mega dreadnought in a baby carrier, but I guess we'll see.

Yeah, I think they would have to murder the UM fluff to give them any kind of 'special sauce'. But as we have seen, GW is great at murdering fluff.

I hope for a plastic stern/vanguard combo kit, and a plastic terminator character kit (captain/chappy/libby). Hell I would love a plastic combo kit for PA chappy/libby.

 SickSix wrote:
Yeah, I think they would have to murder the UM fluff to give them any kind of 'special sauce'. But as we have seen, GW is great at murdering fluff.

I hope for a plastic stern/vanguard combo kit, and a plastic terminator character kit (captain/chappy/libby). Hell I would love a plastic combo kit for PA chappy/libby.

A versatile Terminator character kit might actually get me to buy something.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well Nippy can fight my Khornemower, Lord Skullington Wexford the Third.

Shouldn't that be Lord Skullington Wexford the Fourth, Eighth or Sixteenth?

Zweischneid wrote: Sarpedon and his boys feel lonely. They want in too!

If only they were still Sons of Dorn.. Too bad they are not.

I'd like to see new SM Bikes.

It's too old and with White Scars being first, I'd say it's probable.

But I just found an amazing painting guide for Ultramarines done in metallics. Going to test it on a commander first to see if I can match or better the quality.

If the Marines get new bikes while Eldar are saddled with the 90's Jetbikes then there is no justice in the world....

I'll laugh if the new Space Marine codex gets unique psychic powers when the DA's didn't. It would speak to the level of how all first codexes from a new edition always get overshadowed by following releases...and the cycle continues...

The DA got 1 unique power, though. The one their master Librarian can take.

Other than Eldar, most of the Codex-Specific Psychic Powers are on par with or worse than the BRB powers, so I don't see this as a big deal, personally.

When was the last time Games Workshop replaced an existing plastic kit for Warhammer 40K, such as Space Marine bikes, with a new plastic kit?

They did with the Dark Eldar, didn't they?

 SickSix wrote:
Yeah, I think they would have to murder the UM fluff to give them any kind of 'special sauce'. But as we have seen, GW is great at murdering fluff.

I hope for a plastic stern/vanguard combo kit, and a plastic terminator character kit (captain/chappy/libby). Hell I would love a plastic combo kit for PA chappy/libby.

How about actually restricting them from doing certain things but giving some kind of competence bonus (or whatever...) for über-codex-astartes-compliance? I could kind of see that work.
Of course stuff like the tirannic war veterans will go right into that UM expansion as well as any specific characters - and I don't think a different warlord trait table would murder their fluff all too brutally?

edit @ Zwei
they retooled the tac squad with more options and completely different sprue layouts.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
They did with the Dark Eldar, didn't they?

They did, although those were baaaaaaadddd kits.

...And you'd say the SM bike has withstood the test of time acceptably?

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
They did with the Dark Eldar, didn't they?

Yes, so the answer is technically 2.5 years ago if memory serves.

However, that was also a wholesale revamp of the entire range; I think maybe Drazhar and the "Dark Eldar Prisoners" were the only portions to be carried forward and I'm not even sure of them.

Since then I'm not really recalling them doing anything of a re-vamp of plastic; it's been moving from FineCast to plastic and/or new units. Now, if any line would get such a thing now, it'd probably be the Space Marines, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

 Bolognesus wrote:
...And you'd say the SM bike has withstood the test of time acceptably?

Yep.

 pretre wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
...And you'd say the SM bike has withstood the test of time acceptably?

Yep.

...Zoinks. Takes all kinds, I guess

I rather like the basic space marine kit.

Easy to assemble, you can add other shoulder pads, works with the devastator, assault marine, and other kits just fine.

I'm into the HH kits from FW now, though. Sigh...

 Krinsath wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope they put a dreadnought inside a bigger dreadnought, slap an oval base on it and charge us 100$

It will be a DreadKnight-style baby carrier, but for a Dreadnought! It will be called the DreadKnightNought, and will cost $120.

As much as I'm excited as a Marine collector since the RTB01 days, the emphasis of the past few releases has me cringing at what they're going to try to pass off this time. Thankfully I don't have any model budget left to spend on anything less than fantastic, so I'm pretty sure I'm safe for a while.

Dreadnought of course needs to be purchased separately.....

To my surprise, the Biker kit actually has been quarter-assedly redone. The early kit had a solid torso and head, when they redid it in 3rd/4th edition, they added a split torso usable by normal marines.

Would it be, theoretically likely, for GW to do something like. Drop the 10 man tactical squad, increase the 5 man to 20 quid, but then add in the command sprue?

A sort of more subtle price hike. - We're giving you less stuff, but it's slightly cheaper!

 kronk wrote:
I rather like the basic space marine kit.

Easy to assemble, you can add other shoulder pads, works with the devastator, assault marine, and other kits just fine.

I'm into the HH kits from FW now, though. Sigh...

It is getting long in the tooth though; really bad mold lines, lots of detail blurring, etc. I love the interchangability between the Marine lines (Making my Franken-Honour Guard was quite enjoyable) but the molds need to be replaced and some design tweaking wouldn't be bad for a number of their kits. Terminators in particular have crappy poses, and little detail. I got some for free, and looking at them closely, I'd never pay $10 a model for them.

Marines are the oldest plastic line in production aren't they? It's basically them and Cadians which are about as old as plastic comes, and many of the designs haven't aged well.

I'm not against new ones, mind you. Not at all, actually.

I'm just saying that they've held up fairly well. I haven't run into any increased mold line issues, though. They've been about the same as I've had in the past. Some of the Chaos Space Marines (basic CSM kit) I've done recently were horrible. If you've had some like those, I understand your point completely.

Aren't the Catachans older than the Cadians?

 SickSix wrote:
Yeah, I think they would have to murder the UM fluff to give them any kind of 'special sauce'.

There's no special sauce in Iyanden, so I don't see why you think there would be any in Ultramarines. Having a few chapter relics isn't being non-codex, it's having a history.

Tho, for the record, I am against supplemental books.

 pretre wrote:
Aren't the Catachans older than the Cadians?

Yes, by more than a few years as I recall them being the only plastic guard for a long time.. The Eldar Guardians I don't believe have been drastically redesigned any more than the Space Marines. Not sure when the Ork Boyz came out, but they're up there as well. The Tyranid warriors and gaunts are over a decade as well.

Most of the armies had their basic troops in plastic before 2003 or so; some have held up reasonably well (Tyranid Warriors still look cool IMO) and others not so much (Necron warriors look cool on their own, but don't seem to mesh with the overall look anymore).

starting to feel this ed of 40k is becoming Mechhammer.. DISLIKE

 Sgt.Roadkill wrote:
starting to feel this ed of 40k is becoming Mechhammer.. DISLIKE

Do you mean MonstrousCreatureHammer?

Because I've been led to believe it most definitely is NOT Mechhammer?

Unless my definition (lots of transport vehicles) is different than yours?

Yeah, 5th was mechhammer. 6th is Flyer/MC hammer.

Heh. MC Hammer.

5th was "My Black Templars are walking, thank you very much" hammer.

6th will be the same when they give me a new codex or suppliment.

All I want to see is SOUL DRINKERS Rules....

i.e Sarpedon with "The Hell" rules

Tellos = indestructible berserker

Greavus = wields Power Axe at normal Init.

Lygris = some awesome Techmarine power would be tits!!!

I think it's supposed to be "mech" as in "mecha".

I don't have any special sources or anything. and these are my own speculation, so take it as you will:

Space Marines will see the same point cost reduction that was in Codex Dark Angels, with the exception of perhaps seeing the point cost of the flyers increased to be "on par" with the points costs of other 6th ed fliers.

I don't think they are going to make Dreadnoughts, or any sort of super dreadnought monstrous creature, because frankly, Dark Angels didn't get one.

I HOPE LIKE HECK: that the new vanilla codex doesn't totally negate any reasons to continue to play my Dark Angels.

They won't.

You have troop terminators, bikes with twin-linked plasma, and some other nifty gismos that Space Marines won't be getting.

I'm not entirely certain that C: SM will keep bike troops with a bike captain, but we'll see.

I agree with you on the point reduction. I'm betting that the C: SM Tactical squads will nearly be a copy/paste.

 pretre wrote:
So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

Their special sauce is catsup

If I see those ultramarines get a supplement before us, there will be the iron price to pay.

Nah. There are more UM players than Black Templar players. I have no problem with that.

<--- BT player.

I actually really hope they don't introduce much in the way of new units. I feel like the number units in the Space Marine codex is pretty far-reaching, and I'd rather not see some arbitrary new stuff added just for the sake of it. Sure, if there's a new artillery piece to go with the Thunderfire Cannon for a dual plastic kit or whatever, that'll be fine, I just don't want to see some new giant robot or second flier for Marines. I just want updated rules and a new Predator kit with decent sponsons.

Remember, Marines will already end up with 2 flyers in their codex without adding any new models.

 Compel wrote:
Remember, Marines will already end up with 2 flyers in their codex without adding any new models.

Hah, you're right! I always forget about the Stormraven. Just proves my point that we don't need another flyer dualkit!

 Brother SRM wrote:
Hah, you're right! I always forget about the Stormraven. Just proves my point that we don't need another flyer dualkit!

GW releases are not about our needs, they are about their needs, and they need a big expensive kit, so that the few customers left will bring as much revenue as double the number of customers a few years ago

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Hah, you're right! I always forget about the Stormraven. Just proves my point that we don't need another flyer dualkit!

GW releases are not about our needs, they are about their needs, and they need a big expensive kit, so that the few customers left will bring as much revenue as double the number of customers a few years ago

Hence why they won't release new troop sculpts.

 Krinsath wrote:
It will be a DreadKnight-style baby carrier, but for a Dreadnought! It will be called the DreadKnightNought, and will cost $120.

I think DreadKnightNought deserved an exalt.

5 man Space Marine boxes seems likely imo.

Also, this new thing where they now excise 20% of the codex and sell it as a separate supplement is just amazing.

 Kirasu wrote:
Hence why they won't release new troop sculpts.

DE Wyches/Warriors, Necrons Immortals, GK strikes and Terms, DA from DV tacs, terms and bikes. Chaos from DV 'chosen'.

 pretre wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Hence why they won't release new troop sculpts.

DE Wyches/Warriors, Necrons Immortals, GK strikes and Terms, DA from DV tacs, terms and bikes. Chaos from DV 'chosen'.

These are all different. Dark Eldar sculpts were never going to sell as they were, Necron Immortals and Grey Knights of all flavors were metal before, and what's in the starter set isn't the same as a multipart troop kit.

Let's not forget that codexes were only £12 about 4 years ago...

 Brother SRM wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Hence why they won't release new troop sculpts.

DE Wyches/Warriors, Necrons Immortals, GK strikes and Terms, DA from DV tacs, terms and bikes. Chaos from DV 'chosen'.

These are all different. Dark Eldar sculpts were never going to sell as they were, Necron Immortals and Grey Knights of all flavors were metal before, and what's in the starter set isn't the same as a multipart troop kit.

So under those criteria, other than SOB, who still needs a troop kit?

Just on the rumour of the potential of being 5 man tactical squads, and 5 man space marine boxes, nearly all 40k troop and squad choices are boxes of 5, especially if they are elite units. Also, the only non 5 man space marine box is the 10 man tactical box, which I doubt GW will get rid off, after all it is probably one of their biggest sellers.

 pretre wrote:
Heh. MC Hammer.

Sorry that couldn't be said without this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother SRM wrote:
I actually really hope they don't introduce much in the way of new units. I feel like the number units in the Space Marine codex is pretty far-reaching, and I'd rather not see some arbitrary new stuff added just for the sake of it. Sure, if there's a new artillery piece to go with the Thunderfire Cannon for a dual plastic kit or whatever, that'll be fine, I just don't want to see some new giant robot or second flier for Marines. I just want updated rules and a new Predator kit with decent sponsons.

This. However with a November release I couldn't realistically think that GW would be OK with this. There will be new units I just hope they are sensible ones. Not a giant mech for the sake of it or another SM flyer. They could always create new bikes but I doubt that too.

 pretre wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

Did you miss the part where he said that Codex: SM was going to be generic for all marines? So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

Ultramarines are generic space marines, there is nothing special about them.

I have no idea about the GK codex, but would it be possible for them to add the baby-carrier to the general SM codex? Bit like how they made the Stormraven available? Saves them money on a new sculpt, yet pushes out more sales (after a price increase no doubt).
If not do you think it's likely they'll copy-paste a lot of the aesthetic from that model for the new SM one, or would that be too small?
Suddenly I'm yearning for solid leaks/pics even though it's months away.

They'd have to re-sculpt it anyway because of all the GK iconography on it.

Are there any actual rumors in this rumors thread? Is there a source? It sounds a lot like wishlisting and extrapolation from the Iyanden book...

Big models, new apo book... that will be fun.

IMO, it's about time to have a new SM codex. I played Raven Guard and I hope they'll have new stuff to create a full assault army without being BA.

hellpato wrote:
Big models, new apo book... that will be fun.

IMO, it's about time to have a new SM codex. I played Raven Guard and I hope they'll have new stuff to create a full assault army without being BA.

Raven Guard gets Dragon sized Crow themed vehicle that carries Assault troops in it's feet.....

GG

 generalgrog wrote:

hellpato wrote:
Big models, new apo book... that will be fun.

IMO, it's about time to have a new SM codex. I played Raven Guard and I hope they'll have new stuff to create a full assault army without being BA.

Raven Guard gets Dragon sized Crow themed vehicle that carries Assault troops in it's feet.....

GG

This

White Scars will also get the oppurtunity to mark scar their units in different ways to give them special abilities.

 Kolath wrote:
Are there any actual rumors in this rumors thread? Is there a source? It sounds a lot like wishlisting and extrapolation from the Iyanden book...

1. No.
2. No.
3. It is.

So far I haven't seen anything from reliable rumour-mongers or heard anything from my (somewhat less-than-reliable) inside sources to indicate that there will be a big 'mecha' thing for space marines. Given what I do hear they are getting, I'm going to guess that they will not be joining in the monstrous walker party this edition...

 generalgrog wrote:

hellpato wrote:
Big models, new apo book... that will be fun.

IMO, it's about time to have a new SM codex. I played Raven Guard and I hope they'll have new stuff to create a full assault army without being BA.

Raven Guard gets Dragon sized Crow themed vehicle that carries Assault troops in it's feet.....

GG

ahhh...The eagles are coming! ....

It's not like the concept hasn't been used before.

eh, they'll have to fill the oval base slot, my guess is an elite upsized version of a dreadnought (and then make dreadnoughts available to be taken in groups up to 3, but still sold separately).

I'm also betting on another rhino variant - perhaps something with a melta or plasma turret and heavy bolter sponsons?

Finally, I'd be willing to bet the Thunderfire Cannon either gets removed, recast as a plastic kit or turned into a terminator shoulder-mounted weapon option akin to the cyclone missile launcher.

I just hope they don't mess up the Master of the Forge. I rather like having 5 dreadnaughts in my army with a conversion beamer. Just don't mess that up and I'll be happy.

Typically they dont prevent certain builds from being used, such as things that become troops will still stay troops. Other things becoming troops however is possible. I think it will be similar to the iyanden book in that anything that can become troops will still be able to become troops, however they might have other special rules that work with specific troops better than a general army.

Fingers crossed for jump packs on a Captain making assault squads troops!

Plastic Techmarines would be ace too.

Widdershinz wrote:
Fingers crossed for jump packs on a Captain making assault squads troops!

Plastic Techmarines would be ace too.

That would be great, that way Blood Angels could actually have a good codex without being forced to run a "totally not white scars" mech list.

 Kolath wrote:
Are there any actual rumors in this rumors thread? Is there a source? It sounds a lot like wishlisting and extrapolation from the Iyanden book...

Well there's the stuff Hastings has mentioned in terms of model releases for Codex: Space Marines:
- New 'suits' in size between terminators and dreadnoughts.
- 2 new vehicles based on the Rhino chassis.

I put a lot more stock in Hastings' rumours than this bunch, so I wouldn't expect any new flyer (as they already have 2) or any sort of large Walker or Monstrous Creature for the next Codex: Space Marines.

Puscifer wrote:
You can't nerf a Marine Son.

They are the cornerstone of 40k.

As for Necrons being a solid release with good rules... JUST NO!!! I stopped playing Necrons because of the new rules. Broken beyond belief, the models were subpar and the fluff was all fist bumpy friendly BULL****!!!

Dark Eldar though, got it right.

That was my favourite release.

I LOVE the Necrons. I have loved them for 10 years. I HATE the fluff now. I LOVED when they were the misterious race of 40k. Fluff told by the races who crossed paths with them. Necron NEVER spoke nor wrote thier own fluff. Matt Ward destroyed them.

Want 40k to improve? Matt Ward needs to go. Period.

This is where it sucks to be DA!! Marines get new dreads and stuff and DA don't.

 ph34r wrote:

Widdershinz wrote:
Fingers crossed for jump packs on a Captain making assault squads troops!

Plastic Techmarines would be ace too.

That would be great, that way Blood Angels could actually have a good codex without being forced to run a "totally not white scars" mech list.

Umm... aren't assault marines troops in the BA codex anyway?


I just hope they don't do what they seem to love doing recently which is climbing the tallest ladder they can find, dropping their kecks, then taking a massive dump over all the established and cherished fluff of their long term gamers. It's all either to cram an unnecessary new vehicle/monster in or appeal to 9 year olds. Codex fluff really seems to be leaning towards predictable B movie stereotypes, not the kinda good cos its so awful ones either.

 Krinsath wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
They did with the Dark Eldar, didn't they?

Yes, so the answer is technically 2.5 years ago if memory serves.

However, that was also a wholesale revamp of the entire range; I think maybe Drazhar and the "Dark Eldar Prisoners" were the only portions to be carried forward and I'm not even sure of them.

Since then I'm not really recalling them doing anything of a re-vamp of plastic; it's been moving from FineCast to plastic and/or new units. Now, if any line would get such a thing now, it'd probably be the Space Marines, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

Tactical marines were already mentioned.
Land Speeder was redone with some extra options and a better fitting hull.
Assault marines were redone to a consolidated sprue (previous version had backpacks on separate sprue and individual frames for the marines, like the old tactical squad).
The space marine bikes themselves are a recut if I'm not mistaken, with an improved driver model.
Orks were recut a few years back, taking their 16-model box down to 11 models (but with added nob and special bitz ooh-er!).

There are almost certainly others (tyranid range for example). GW's not averse to retooling plastic models when they figure that the long-term profits will outweigh the costs. I'd be much more surprised to see a retooling of the baneblade than any small troop choice.

 Mark1130 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
You can't nerf a Marine Son.

They are the cornerstone of 40k.

As for Necrons being a solid release with good rules... JUST NO!!! I stopped playing Necrons because of the new rules. Broken beyond belief, the models were subpar and the fluff was all fist bumpy friendly BULL****!!!

Dark Eldar though, got it right.

That was my favourite release.

I LOVE the Necrons. I have loved them for 10 years. I HATE the fluff now. I LOVED when they were the misterious race of 40k. Fluff told by the races who crossed paths with them. Necron NEVER spoke nor wrote thier own fluff.

You mean the time before the 3rd Edition book, when they were a WD list? That was when they were a mysterious and unknown threat, told only by the few survivors. Then the codex came along in 3rd and ecided they were slaves to the C'Tan, who by the way were responsible for nearly everything. Ward was trying to make the Necrons distinct, instead of writing a second Codex: C'tan and minions.

angryboy2k wrote:

Tactical marines were already mentioned.
Land Speeder was redone with some extra options and a better fitting hull.
Assault marines were redone to a consolidated sprue (previous version had backpacks on separate sprue and individual frames for the marines, like the old tactical squad).
The space marine bikes themselves are a recut if I'm not mistaken, with an improved driver model.
Orks were recut a few years back, taking their 16-model box down to 11 models (but with added nob and special bitz ooh-er!).

There are almost certainly others (tyranid range for example). GW's not averse to retooling plastic models when they figure that the long-term profits will outweigh the costs. I'd be much more surprised to see a retooling of the baneblade than any small troop choice.

All of these things happened 5 or more years ago. Most of the Marine recuts happened in 2004. Not exactly a strong case for it happening again any time soon.

 BryllCream wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

Did you miss the part where he said that Codex: SM was going to be generic for all marines? So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

Ultramarines are generic space marines, there is nothing special about them.

wrong

Honor Guard, Tyranid veterans, and honor company are all unique and non-codex sanctioned formations of the Ultramarines. With the exception of honor company which is shared by the Ultramarines and successors. I urge you to research a little about these formations for yourself.


Desperate times call for desperate measures even for the Ultramarines.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Mark1130 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
You can't nerf a Marine Son.

They are the cornerstone of 40k.

As for Necrons being a solid release with good rules... JUST NO!!! I stopped playing Necrons because of the new rules. Broken beyond belief, the models were subpar and the fluff was all fist bumpy friendly BULL****!!!

Dark Eldar though, got it right.

That was my favourite release.

I LOVE the Necrons. I have loved them for 10 years. I HATE the fluff now. I LOVED when they were the misterious race of 40k. Fluff told by the races who crossed paths with them. Necron NEVER spoke nor wrote thier own fluff.

You mean the time before the 3rd Edition book, when they were a WD list? That was when they were a mysterious and unknown threat, told only by the few survivors. Then the codex came along in 3rd and ecided they were slaves to the C'Tan, who by the way were responsible for nearly everything. Ward was trying to make the Necrons distinct, instead of writing a second Codex: C'tan and minions.

Old necrons were a pretty face with a few blemishes, new necrons are more like a slapped arse. Distinct, but not in a good way.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

Tactical marines were already mentioned.
Land Speeder was redone with some extra options and a better fitting hull.
Assault marines were redone to a consolidated sprue (previous version had backpacks on separate sprue and individual frames for the marines, like the old tactical squad).
The space marine bikes themselves are a recut if I'm not mistaken, with an improved driver model.
Orks were recut a few years back, taking their 16-model box down to 11 models (but with added nob and special bitz ooh-er!).

There are almost certainly others (tyranid range for example). GW's not averse to retooling plastic models when they figure that the long-term profits will outweigh the costs. I'd be much more surprised to see a retooling of the baneblade than any small troop choice.

All of these things happened 5 or more years ago. Most of the Marine recuts happened in 2004. Not exactly a strong case for it happening again any time soon.

Why not? Do sprue recuts occur at regular intervals? Is there a time limit in which GW should recut all sprues or not bother ever doing it again? Also, the ork boyz were recut in 2007, so there's no real pattern to the timing anyway. We could just as well talk about the logic in when GW decide to upgrade codexes.

In short, the timing is completely irrelevant. The question is whether or not GW are willing to retool perfectly usable models and put them onto new sprues. They obviously are - and in a number of cases did nothing to update the models except add a few upgrades. It's entirely within the realms of possibility for GW to release new bike sprues with just updated riders. Maybe they'll put them in a three pack to improve their production efficiency or something.

What about the Tyranid War Veterans, Land Raider Terminus, the special characters, etc?

But erm...I'm still waiting for that Land Raider that can transform into a Mega-Dreadnought with spring-loaded missiles.

Son, we really need to talk about this spring-load thing.

 6^ wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Ultramarines really, really shouldn't get a supplement. They are the original codex chapter for goodness sake.

Did you miss the part where he said that Codex: SM was going to be generic for all marines? So UM will get a supplement to add in their special sauce...

Ultramarines are generic space marines, there is nothing special about them.

wrong

Honor Guard, Tyranid veterans, and honor company are all unique and non-codex sanctioned formations of the Ultramarines. With the exception of honor company which is shared by the Ultramarines and successors. I urge you to research a little about these formations for yourself.


Desperate times call for desperate measures even for the Ultramarines.

...just so you know, it's actually very rude to simply say "wrong" in reply to someone.

All space marine chapters have honour guard.

Tyranid veterans are just sternguard.

As far as I can tell the Ultramarines Honour Company is simply a normal company of Ultramarines with a few successors thrown in, to protect the Cadian Gate.

So yeah Ultarmarines *are* codex standard.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Malika2 wrote:
What about the Tyranid War Veterans, Land Raider Terminus, the special characters, etc?

I can't find anything that suggests the Land Raider Terminus is ultramarines only, bar the fact that it has "Ultra" in its name. Special characters don't count.

angryboy2k wrote:

Why not? Do sprue recuts occur at regular intervals? Is there a time limit in which GW should recut all sprues or not bother ever doing it again? Also, the ork boyz were recut in 2007, so there's no real pattern to the timing anyway. We could just as well talk about the logic in when GW decide to upgrade codexes.

In short, the timing is completely irrelevant. The question is whether or not GW are willing to retool perfectly usable models and put them onto new sprues. They obviously are - and in a number of cases did nothing to update the models except add a few upgrades. It's entirely within the realms of possibility for GW to release new bike sprues with just updated riders. Maybe they'll put them in a three pack to improve their production efficiency or something.

It's also entirely within the realms of possibility for GW to lower prices, go back to metals or give a free handy with every purchase of a Battleforce or larger. Is any of that likely, based on their previous actions? No. People really need to stop latching onto unfounded rumours and wishlisting. Look at what GW has been doing the past few years, and accept that they will probably continue like that in the near future. And stop dredging up contrary examples from half a decade and two editions ago, because they are half a decade and two editions old.

I would just like to point out that the original information is not wishlisting or me just making it up.

The info came from a credible source that has been correct regarding all the past rumours and the description of new models.

I am not going to reveal said source, but I will say that he doesn't go on Dakka or any other wargaming web entity.

No challenge to your information was intended. I meant the people who latched onto the idea of existing SM plastics being updated.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

Why not? Do sprue recuts occur at regular intervals? Is there a time limit in which GW should recut all sprues or not bother ever doing it again? Also, the ork boyz were recut in 2007, so there's no real pattern to the timing anyway. We could just as well talk about the logic in when GW decide to upgrade codexes.

In short, the timing is completely irrelevant. The question is whether or not GW are willing to retool perfectly usable models and put them onto new sprues. They obviously are - and in a number of cases did nothing to update the models except add a few upgrades. It's entirely within the realms of possibility for GW to release new bike sprues with just updated riders. Maybe they'll put them in a three pack to improve their production efficiency or something.

It's also entirely within the realms of possibility for GW to lower prices, go back to metals or give a free handy with every purchase of a Battleforce or larger. Is any of that likely, based on their previous actions? No. People really need to stop latching onto unfounded rumours and wishlisting. Look at what GW has been doing the past few years, and accept that they will probably continue like that in the near future. And stop dredging up contrary examples from half a decade and two editions ago, because they are half a decade and two editions old.

So how often do you think injection molding tooling should be updated? What's an appropriate timeframe to you? I don't see how things being done 6 to 9 years ago invalidates the idea of updating the sprues. At the time they were updated, the Space Marine sprues were "only" seven years old - that means they're overdue for an upgrade, no?

I'm not actually saying I believe the rumors. I'm simply saying it's happened before, and the conclusion you've drawn (i.e. that it was so long ago we can't use it as a basis for comparison) makes no sense - because the age of the sprues NOW is more or less the age they were the first time they were overhauled. From the information available, EITHER possibility is valid.

So...

Are we in speculation and wish list mode? Is there any actual news?

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just hope they don't mess up the Master of the Forge. I rather like having 5 dreadnaughts in my army with a conversion beamer. Just don't mess that up and I'll be happy.

Don't worry GW probably won't. They'll just make it so its not viable to take anymore, oh wait dreadnoughts also use the vehicle rules...

 Breotan wrote:
They'd have to re-sculpt it anyway because of all the GK iconography on it.

The GK iconography on the Stormraven is all optional. It's also a Blood Angels vehicle remember.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
They'd have to re-sculpt it anyway because of all the GK iconography on it.

The GK iconography on the Stormraven is all optional. It's also a Blood Angels vehicle remember.

I believe that comment was in reference to the DreadKnight (i.e. - "baby-carrier" in this post).

angryboy2k wrote:
So how often do you think injection molding tooling should be updated? What's an appropriate timeframe to you? I don't see how things being done 6 to 9 years ago invalidates the idea of updating the sprues. At the time they were updated, the Space Marine sprues were "only" seven years old - that means they're overdue for an upgrade, no?

I'm not actually saying I believe the rumors. I'm simply saying it's happened before, and the conclusion you've drawn (i.e. that it was so long ago we can't use it as a basis for comparison) makes no sense - because the age of the sprues NOW is more or less the age they were the first time they were overhauled. From the information available, EITHER possibility is valid.

You're missing the point completely. The age of any particular sprue has nothing to do with anything here. For whatever reason, GW is currently not in the business of replacing existing plastic kits. End of story. Probably because they figure they will make more sales if they make something entirely new, or replace unpopular Finecast kits, than if they just update models that everyone already owns, anyway. But that's just the most common assumption.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
There will be supplements for the more famous chapters: Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and White Scars were the ones mentioned. White Scars are the first out the gate.

Thus we enter the age when GW saw fit to release full-price hardback "companion" books that are nothing but fluff and a few rules changes.

Isn't that every Privateer Press book ever released after the core army books?

DeathGod wrote:
Isn't that every Privateer Press book ever released after the core army books?

PP books are glorified yearly release catalogs, yes. But you don't have to buy those to actually play a faction.

Not exactly. There are rules expansions as well in every Mk2 book.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
So how often do you think injection molding tooling should be updated? What's an appropriate timeframe to you? I don't see how things being done 6 to 9 years ago invalidates the idea of updating the sprues. At the time they were updated, the Space Marine sprues were "only" seven years old - that means they're overdue for an upgrade, no?

I'm not actually saying I believe the rumors. I'm simply saying it's happened before, and the conclusion you've drawn (i.e. that it was so long ago we can't use it as a basis for comparison) makes no sense - because the age of the sprues NOW is more or less the age they were the first time they were overhauled. From the information available, EITHER possibility is valid.

You're missing the point completely. The age of any particular sprue has nothing to do with anything here. For whatever reason, GW is currently not in the business of replacing existing plastic kits. End of story. Probably because they figure they will make more sales if they make something entirely new, or replace unpopular Finecast kits, than if they just update models that everyone already owns, anyway. But that's just the most common assumption.

You're the one who brought up the age of the examples I gave, as though to say that GW doesn't do that sort of thing anymore. I tried to tell you that you can't draw any conclusion from that and that all we can say is that GW has replaced perfectly good sprues (with near identical models) in the past (most likely because they figured the retooled version would save money long term). If I didn't explain that clearly, I'm sorry, but I think if you'll go back through my posts that I did.

I certainly don't know nor would I venture to guess whether GW will do it again in the future - I just wouldn't rule it out.

angryboy2k wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
So how often do you think injection molding tooling should be updated? What's an appropriate timeframe to you? I don't see how things being done 6 to 9 years ago invalidates the idea of updating the sprues. At the time they were updated, the Space Marine sprues were "only" seven years old - that means they're overdue for an upgrade, no?

I'm not actually saying I believe the rumors. I'm simply saying it's happened before, and the conclusion you've drawn (i.e. that it was so long ago we can't use it as a basis for comparison) makes no sense - because the age of the sprues NOW is more or less the age they were the first time they were overhauled. From the information available, EITHER possibility is valid.

You're missing the point completely. The age of any particular sprue has nothing to do with anything here. For whatever reason, GW is currently not in the business of replacing existing plastic kits. End of story. Probably because they figure they will make more sales if they make something entirely new, or replace unpopular Finecast kits, than if they just update models that everyone already owns, anyway. But that's just the most common assumption.

You're the one who brought up the age of the examples I gave, as though to say that GW doesn't do that sort of thing anymore. I tried to tell you that you can't draw any conclusion from that and that all we can say is that GW has replaced perfectly good sprues (with near identical models) in the past (most likely because they figured the retooled version would save money long term). If I didn't explain that clearly, I'm sorry, but I think if you'll go back through my posts that I did.

I certainly don't know nor would I venture to guess whether GW will do it again in the future - I just wouldn't rule it out.

I for one agree with lord_blackfang. The writing's been on the wall a long time and if you can't see it you're blind. GW is replacing less and less existing kits, no matter how old they are, both in Warhammer Fantasy and in 40K. What they do is keep the old junk because there's still someone out there buying them and just add new unforeseen units with new kits to the game. Most of those kits aren't traditional 'boring' rank and file stuff either but instead exciting mega sized models, monstrous cavalry and other exotic stuff with high sales potential. I don't have a hard time believing that business wise this makes a lot more sense than replacing old stuff with prettier models 'just because'.

I'm sure they'll do it eventually. But odds are low that it will be soon.

Of course predicting based on past behavior isn't 100% accurate - a year ago I'd have (and did!) laughed at anyone who claimed that we would have 5 new Codexes published within the first year of 6th edition's life span.

@ Therion
There's not enough data to make a trend. I'm thrilled you think I'm blind.

angryboy2k wrote:
There's not enough data to make a trend. I'm thrilled you think I'm blind.

The data I use is from a span of half a decade or slightly longer. Maybe you need to look closer, but if you're indeed blind I'm not sure what good it'll do you.

And if you'd picked the five years from 1997 to 2002 you'd have come to the same conclusion you just have. Well done!

angryboy2k wrote:
And if you'd picked the five years from 1997 to 2002 you'd have come to the same conclusion you just have. Well done!

Even if I just took the last 3 army books and the related releases it would be enough data to make a trend. The fact I'm looking as far back as 2008 is just being thorough. GW is not in the business of replacing old models with prettier ones. GW is in the business of selling miniatures.

Can we please have this discussion without the tempers rising?

lord_blackfang wrote:

DeathGod wrote:
Isn't that every Privateer Press book ever released after the core army books?

PP books are glorified yearly release catalogs, yes. But you don't have to buy those to actually play a faction.

You won't have to buy Iyanden to play them either. You can still play an Iyanden themed army, painted like Iyanden, without the supplement. Also, PP books are required to play a lot of the casters, Gargantuans and Colossals, and units not found in the core book.

I've never actually seen someone playing factions in that game who don't own the extra books for fluff, special rules, and a few pictures. Just saying...

Therion wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
So how often do you think injection molding tooling should be updated? What's an appropriate timeframe to you? I don't see how things being done 6 to 9 years ago invalidates the idea of updating the sprues. At the time they were updated, the Space Marine sprues were "only" seven years old - that means they're overdue for an upgrade, no?

I'm not actually saying I believe the rumors. I'm simply saying it's happened before, and the conclusion you've drawn (i.e. that it was so long ago we can't use it as a basis for comparison) makes no sense - because the age of the sprues NOW is more or less the age they were the first time they were overhauled. From the information available, EITHER possibility is valid.

You're missing the point completely. The age of any particular sprue has nothing to do with anything here. For whatever reason, GW is currently not in the business of replacing existing plastic kits. End of story. Probably because they figure they will make more sales if they make something entirely new, or replace unpopular Finecast kits, than if they just update models that everyone already owns, anyway. But that's just the most common assumption.

You're the one who brought up the age of the examples I gave, as though to say that GW doesn't do that sort of thing anymore. I tried to tell you that you can't draw any conclusion from that and that all we can say is that GW has replaced perfectly good sprues (with near identical models) in the past (most likely because they figured the retooled version would save money long term). If I didn't explain that clearly, I'm sorry, but I think if you'll go back through my posts that I did.

I certainly don't know nor would I venture to guess whether GW will do it again in the future - I just wouldn't rule it out.

I for one agree with lord_blackfang. The writing's been on the wall a long time and if you can't see it you're blind. GW is replacing less and less existing kits, no matter how old they are, both in Warhammer Fantasy and in 40K. What they do is keep the old junk because there's still someone out there buying them and just add new unforeseen units with new kits to the game. Most of those kits aren't traditional 'boring' rank and file stuff either but instead exciting mega sized models, monstrous cavalry and other exotic stuff with high sales potential. I don't have a hard time believing that business wise this makes a lot more sense than replacing old stuff with prettier models 'just because'.

Amen. Most people say, "good thing I already own 32 of [insert model]" when a new version of an old model comes out. Those don't sell as well as brand spanking new kits. That said, I have it on pretty good authority that old models will be updated in the future, but the focus right now is updated books and a few new kits for each army.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
They'd have to re-sculpt it anyway because of all the GK iconography on it.

The GK iconography on the Stormraven is all optional. It's also a Blood Angels vehicle remember.

I believe that comment was in reference to the DreadKnight (i.e. - "baby-carrier" in this post).

Exactly.

Personally I don't use GK or BA but will happily field my Storm Raven in whichever Marine variant army I desire. If my opponent doesn't like that, he can find another person to play against.

 Breotan wrote:
Exactly.

Personally I don't use GK or BA but will happily field my Storm Raven in whichever Marine variant army I desire. If my opponent doesn't like that, he can find another person to play against.

Irrelevant, the only iconography is optional. It's a flat kit at its core just as Rhinos or any tank are.

@Therion, don't call it data unless you have it plotted as such. And 5 years is too small a frame of reference to mean much, sorry. Also, you're precluding change.

Anyhow, this is a silly thread now, we should really close it down or keep at discussions of the actual rumors instead of this "omg, look at my e-peen, I am magically more knowledgeable than you even though I have absolutely no proof or credentials!"

 brassangel wrote:
Amen. Most people say, "good thing I already own 32 of [insert model]" when a new version of an old model comes out.

You forgot to quote the second half: "... otherwise I would have to buy 32 new jetbikes/Crisis Suits ...", giving the quote a different meaning

 brassangel wrote:


PP books are required to play a lot of the casters, Gargantuans and Colossals, and units not found in the core book.

I thought the rules to any given WarmaHordes model were on the card that comes with the model?

Nurd6 wrote:

 brassangel wrote:


PP books are required to play a lot of the casters, Gargantuans and Colossals, and units not found in the core book.

I thought the rules to any given WarmaHordes model were on the card that comes with the model?

They are, some of the books like the colossals, the core rules for the colossals are in that book and not listed on every card. That doesn't 100% mean you need to buy the book though, as PP does have their app that has a reference section with all the core rules, or you just memorize them, or just borrow your friends book etc.

 troa wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Exactly.

Personally I don't use GK or BA but will happily field my Storm Raven in whichever Marine variant army I desire. If my opponent doesn't like that, he can find another person to play against.

Irrelevant, the only iconography is optional. It's a flat kit at its core just as Rhinos or any tank are.

Okay. Since you're the second person who missed this, I'll spell it out for people. The iconography in question is the stuff on the DREADKNIGHT. That's what is being talked about when I used the term iconography. If you hadn't removed that bit from the quote chain, it'd be pretty obvious.

 Crimson wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

Yes. At $50 US each. You want a White Scars army? Get ready to drop $100.

Iyanden supplement was not the same price as the codex. It may still be too expensive, but at least get your facts straight. I've seen codex price supplement repeated so many times that it seems that most people actually believe that this is the case.

Facts are confirmed. In Canada, the physical normal copy of Iyanden Supplement is the same price as Codex Eldar at $59.50CAD. GW will never let us down!

Yikes. We got hit hard with that one. 140 for a wraithknight, 120 for the codexes...

Edited by AgeOfEgos

I honestly am more disappointed if this is true on the fact that, I bought the digital version of the C:SM and when 6th came out, it received a free update with hull points. So now i have to purchase a brand new book entirely and I haven't even gotten my full use out of this one. Damn, my iPad is going to be sore.

Edit 1: the cost of the Iyanden was only $40 on digital, and I had it a week ago. Maybe if everyone purchases a digital application device, we can force the industry to save us money by saving them money on not having to buy ink or paper. And get the product sooner.

Not sure how everyone going out and buying an ipad just for GW books is saving us money...

Spaz431 wrote:
I honestly am more disappointed if this is true on the fact that, I bought the digital version of the C:SM and when 6th came out, it received a free update with hull points. So now i have to purchase a brand new book entirely and I haven't even gotten my full use out of this one. Damn, my iPad is going to be sore.

You do realise how old the current SM codex is, don't you?

 Flood wrote:
Not sure how everyone going out and buying an ipad just for GW books is saving us money...

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to unwrap that pretzel.

Holy Nutballs, I just realised who wrote the fifth edition Codex for SM...

How did he go from awesome with that book to two really bad ones?

Puscifer wrote:
Holy Nutballs, I just realised who wrote the fifth edition Codex for SM...

How did he go from awesome with that book to two really bad ones?

Personally, I don't think he did. I think that the GK codex and the Necron codex (the two I assume you're referencing ) are actually really good. That being said, it's important to note that I didn't play Necrons before they came out, so I didn't have any loyalty invested in the old 'dex. I concede that this fact may very well bias my opinion. I think the GK codex is also pretty good. I think that it's fairly simple to play, which leads many people to the erroneous conclusion that it's overpowered, but I don't think it's a bad codex by any stretch. Some of, nay all of, the fluff is written with a hyperbolic, extremely propagandistic feel to it, but that's just Ward's way, and I don't think it's something that's even that far afield in the 40k setting. (Read the boilerplate at the beginning of every 40k product again if you don't think the setting is built for epic exaggeration! ) I hope Ward writes our new codex, honestly.

I think most people on the Mat Ward hate train are there just because their friends or their forum communities are, and they want to fit in. Numerically speaking, most people (on Dakka anyway) have a negative opinion of him. Out of my series of 'Objective Hate' threads, it's interesting to note that Mat Ward was the only one of my topics to wind up with a majority opinion in the extreme hate/love slot. He and the Tau are the only ones, incidentally, that have a majority on the positive or negative side of the argument. (And Ward is the only one to have a majority on the negative side!) So opinions on Ward are pretty negative, but I don't think most folks have given him a fair shake.

That is, of course, just my opinion.

^and a darn good opinion it is mate!

 Jimsolo wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Holy Nutballs, I just realised who wrote the fifth edition Codex for SM...

How did he go from awesome with that book to two really bad ones?

Personally, I don't think he did. I think that the GK codex and the Necron codex (the two I assume you're referencing ) are actually really good. That being said, it's important to note that I didn't play Necrons before they came out, so I didn't have any loyalty invested in the old 'dex. I concede that this fact may very well bias my opinion. I think the GK codex is also pretty good. I think that it's fairly simple to play, which leads many people to the erroneous conclusion that it's overpowered, but I don't think it's a bad codex by any stretch. Some of, nay all of, the fluff is written with a hyperbolic, extremely propagandistic feel to it, but that's just Ward's way, and I don't think it's something that's even that far afield in the 40k setting. (Read the boilerplate at the beginning of every 40k product again if you don't think the setting is built for epic exaggeration! ) I hope Ward writes our new codex, honestly.

I think most people on the Mat Ward hate train are there just because their friends or their forum communities are, and they want to fit in. Numerically speaking, most people (on Dakka anyway) have a negative opinion of him. Out of my series of 'Objective Hate' threads, it's interesting to note that Mat Ward was the only one of my topics to wind up with a majority opinion in the extreme hate/love slot. He and the Tau are the only ones, incidentally, that have a majority on the positive or negative side of the argument. (And Ward is the only one to have a majority on the negative side!) So opinions on Ward are pretty negative, but I don't think most folks have given him a fair shake.

That is, of course, just my opinion.

Well here are my two cents...even though I woke up and feel like a boxer who took too many hits..ugh

Mat Ward is a terrible fluff writer...take a look at the current Space Marine codex...and I mean REALLY look at it....I'll give you a good example...when I was in grade 5 the class I was in, was tasked with writing a short story...now this time me being a little innocent perhaps..asked the teacher if I could use the word "Hell" in my short story...she said yes!...so I sat down and starting writing my Grade 5 Opus! and it started something like this. On top of Hell Mountain there ruled Hell Wizards who rained down hellfire surrounded by Dragons from hell and to get on top of Hell Mountain you had to go through Hellhounds who helled the hell out of hell! ...now I'm only paraphrasing my story here as that was many hell years ago but here's the point

Mat Ward had Ultramarine oral diarrhea...if you grew up playing the game and played Marines you suddenly have a marine chapter who's 2nd best

that would be like watching Star Wars prequels and finding out Anakin built C-3PO...or meteclorians(SP) are bacteria

as for rules wise my biggest thing was giving flippin Terminators a 3+ Invulnerable! ..ridiculous in my opinion, but that's just my opinion

So yes Mat Ward...bad fluff writer..and same goes with the Necron and Grey Knight codices...that's why the Mat Ward hate..feel free to enjoy his stories though I'm just trying to bring out understanding not deter you

I, too hope he writes our next codex and this time make Sicarius a better HQ in game.
I do believe his books are well-balanced with a little touch of power someplace. But that is a good thing, no?

Ahhh... The first SM rumor thread. Some very vague predictions and 7 pages of hate for Matt Ward.

What codexes did he write other than SM, DE, and crons? Since I can't care less about fluff I only care about the new rules and units he is gonna add. I think the supplements is a nice touch and long over due since they are probably easy to create. Seriously, that crapy fluff has been written for a decade and the army list will be a mostly the same as the SM codex with a few new characters, a change or two to the FoC, and probably a new tank.

I think the LR Terminous may be a bit overpowered for regular 40K, it was an Apoc unit only for a reason. 3 TL Lascannons and 2 more Lascanons is a bit overpowered me thinks. GUess they want to sell more of the upgrade packs. Might have to pick one up and magnetize one of my Landraiders.

spartiatis wrote:
I, too hope he writes our next codex and this time make Sicarius a better HQ in game.
I do believe his books are well-balanced with a little touch of power someplace. But that is a good thing, no?

It feels like a bit of a letdown so far with 6th. It feels like the earlier codexes for 6th, (CSM and DA) aren't built with the same ... vision that the Tau and Eldar books are built with. Tau and Eldar both got unique new monsterous creatures and so far, are leaning towards the higher end of the power scale. Can't say the same of DA or CSM. =( You have the 'balanced' books, and then the Xeno books have a bunch of MC models. It's part of what makes psychic choir tyrnids so strong, is having toughness rather than AV.

I really hope C:SM gets something competitive.

 RogueMage wrote:

as for rules wise my biggest thing was giving flippin Terminators a 3+ Invulnerable! ..ridiculous in my opinion, but that's just my opinion

No its not only your opinion, i completly agree with you, Giving a 3++ to models in the game was just bat gak insane.

Never invul saves should have gone lower then 4++, under any circumstances, 3++ is waaaay too broken, specialy if you face an army who 2/3 consiste of such crap while the best invul save you can get is ONE 4++ and the rest 5++.

Just to remind poeple who din't play in 3rd Ed, Storm Shields at the time was 4++ save, in CC only, the field generator was'nt powerfull enough to deflect incoming shoots from afar, and then not only did it work against everything, but it also got upgraded to 3++...

And alas, my hopes of seeing this broken crazy insanity repaired in 6th has been blowed to smithereens when DA codex came out...

I would have to look over my older Space Marine books--but wasn't Ward's codex the first time a LR/Pod carried 12?


Regardless, I actually liked his Space Marine book--minus the Ultramarine special character parade.

I would like to see greater customisation on a squad level, like give the sergeant an option like +15 points, all marines in this squad have CCW/Bolt Pistol as well as Boltgun. +35 Sergeant is now Apothecary. + 30 The unit now has RAGE/Furious Charge. Or Chapter Masters able to install their own custom Chapter Tactics for 100 points.

I would also like to see multiple, uber cheap, paper thin glass cannon vehicles for scouts, like AV 11/9/9 jeeps for scouts, can sit 5 men, and have a twin linked autocannon on the back of it similar to the warthog from Halo.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Dreadnoughts become T6 2+ MC's instead of walker vehicles.

Good lord, are you trying to start a flamewar here?

 PandaMango141 wrote:
I would like to see greater customisation on a squad level, like give the sergeant an option like +15 points, all marines in this squad have CCW/Bolt Pistol as well as Boltgun. +35 Sergeant is now Apothecary. + 30 The unit now has RAGE/Furious Charge. Or Chapter Masters able to install their own custom Chapter Tactics for 100 points.

I would also like to see multiple, uber cheap, paper thin glass cannon vehicles for scouts, like AV 11/9/9 jeeps for scouts, can sit 5 men, and have a twin linked autocannon on the back of it similar to the warthog from Halo.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Dreadnoughts become T6 2+ MC's instead of walker vehicles.

None of this is going to happen. Squad upgrades for sergeants makes a very incoherent army, and putting them on a chapter master for a set cost causes issues with scaling, as upgrading 2 squads at 750-1000 points isn't the same as upgrading 10+ at 2500.

Scouts will likely get a Storm as a dedicated transport, but space marines use Storm Talons, bikes and Land Speeders for their fast and light duty attacks, not traditional ground vehicles, which is the domain of the Imperial Guard. Attack bikes with more weapon options...maybe, as the legion list has heavy flamer and autocannon bikes. I wouldn't be totally surprised to see a plasma-cannon bike variant either.

Dread are literally the poster boy for walkers, and switching them to a toughness/armor save would basically be the first step in phasing walkers out of the game altogether. Since we didn't see this in the CSM or DA codex....it's not going to happen.

We are likely to see;
8-10 "Chapter Relics" in the armory, 2 of which are amazing, 2 of which are okay, and the rest will be poor or extremely situational.
30-40 point break on most of the generic characters.
TH/SS terminators going up 5 points.
Whirlwinds, predators, razors, devastators to match the costs in the DA codex.
No changes to Storm Raven/Storm Talon.
Pretty much the same special characters, with maybe 1-2 of the old out, and 1-2 new ones in.
Tacticals down to 14 each, with the sergeant being optional, ala Dark Angels.
Bikes down to 20 points each.
ASM down 1 point each.
Legion of the damned are likely out.
A captain on a bike making bikes troops....I'm holding my breath on this one surviving the new book.
LRs and drop pods down to 10 models transported.
HUGE points break for vanguard with jump-packs

I'd wager on 1-2 new units, and there's a lot of directions they could go. A bigger terminator, a dreadknight sized walker, a vehicle between a pred and LR (14/12/10, lots of guns), variant Storm Raven/Talon, variant predators/whirlwinds, a special weapon spam squad (flamers, meltas, plasma...etc) and a dozen other options I could dream up.

I expect 1 or 2 "curve balls" thrown in from my dream list (which has about 50 things on it ATM) that are supposed to be the new lure to the vanilla book. Maybe army wide select-able chapter tactics, maybe company captain FoC shifts, maybe a new troop choice....could be any of a hundred of new things, but I don't really expect it to be anything significant or earth shattering that will overshadow the DA or CSM book.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
I would have to look over my older Space Marine books--but wasn't Ward's codex the first time a LR/Pod carried 12?

Also the last time I believe.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:


Regardless, I actually liked his Space Marine book--minus the Ultramarine special character parade.

The 5th Edition Space Marines Codex is the most "non-Ultramarine" ever written.

5th Edition had about 45% non-Ultramarine Special Character, whereas the 4th Edition one only had 40%

All the Ultramarine-specific units from 4th Edition, such as Calgars Honour Guard and Tyranid War Veterans were rebranded by Ward into generic "Honour Guard", "Sternguard", etc...

The painting/showcase section was greatly expanded from previously only 1 double-page with non-Ultramarines units to well over half.

Non-Ultramarine fluff was actually included for the first time, as the 4th Edition book had only Ultramarine stuff (mostly McNeill pushing his "Uriel" baby).

All the Ultramarine markings and iconography on every page (!) and every army-list entry (!) in the 4th Edition book was removed.

There has never been a Space Marine Codex with so little Ultramarines in it like the 5th Edition Codex by Mat Ward.

 Jimsolo wrote:
So opinions on Ward are pretty negative, but I don't think most folks have given him a fair shake.

Well, he basically started with crippling competitive gameplay for Warhammer 7th edition (Daemons) and wrote the financially desastrous 8th edition, so it is not just bad fluff writing.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 RogueMage wrote:

as for rules wise my biggest thing was giving flippin Terminators a 3+ Invulnerable! ..ridiculous in my opinion, but that's just my opinion

No its not only your opinion, i completly agree with you, Giving a 3++ to models in the game was just bat gak insane.

[...]

Say that to my Wraiths. They have base 3++ save, no armour save. And they die, sometimes insta-killed. All it needs is units focus firing on it and they will die.

Matt Ward had it's moments, let's say. I think that no matter what he writes, it becomes a "Either you love it, or you hate it" topic, there's no mid term. I hate how he treats the SoB but I love his New-crons fluff, and I think I'm on a minority because I have seen plenty of new-crons hate here in dakkadakka.

On topic: Those rumors look a bit bogus to me. I hope they really are trying to improve the SM formula being the iconic army they are, and the optional rule-books are good for the sake of variety (You can play with a Iyanden army just using the Codex, you don't need the optional book, only if you really want the fluff-iest as possible).

I just wonder what the new MC will be

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
I hate how he treats the SoB but I love his New-crons fluff,

Which is part of the problem however. Ward never treated SoB any different than other writers did... Kelly in the Space Wolves Codex for example (which also features the by far most awkward Xenos-Marines bro-fist moment, with Eldar Scorpions and Wolf-Guard doing their odd Circle Dance routine in the Great Hall of Fenris). But people accept it in the Wolves-book, cause it's not Ward, but "hate" on it in the GK-Codex, cause 4Chan tells them to hate it.

These odd double-standards are what's so puzzling about it.

This is my take on Ward dexes...

The fluff is always written from a propagandistic pov. I have no problem with this, but to have Kaldor Draigo carve his name in Mortarion's heart was silly.

His rulesets for GK and Necrons are incredibly powerful, but I think that like the 5th ed Marine dex, they will be around for a long time and still be good. Only now is the marine book starting to suck through a lack of power or over expensive units.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
I hate how he treats the SoB but I love his New-crons fluff,

Which is part of the problem however. Ward never treated SoB any different than other writers did... Kelly in the Space Wolves Codex for example (which also features the by far most awkward Xenos-Marines bro-fist moment, with Eldar Scorpions and Wolf-Guard doing their odd Circle Dance routine in the Great Hall of Fenris). But people accept it in the Wolves-book, cause it's not Ward, but "hate" on it in the GK-Codex, cause 4Chan tells them to hate it.

These odd double-standards are what's so puzzling about it.

What... foul sorcery is this?! I had no idea of this! Is this in the SW Codex? I have to go read this MADNESS

Puscifer wrote:

The fluff is always written from a propagandistic pov. I have no problem with this, but to have Kaldor Draigo carve his name in Mortarion's heart was silly.

Good thing he didn't then, eh?

 Iron Dragon wrote:

spartiatis wrote:
I, too hope he writes our next codex and this time make Sicarius a better HQ in game.
I do believe his books are well-balanced with a little touch of power someplace. But that is a good thing, no?

It feels like a bit of a letdown so far with 6th. It feels like the earlier codexes for 6th, (CSM and DA) aren't built with the same ... vision that the Tau and Eldar books are built with. Tau and Eldar both got unique new monsterous creatures and so far, are leaning towards the higher end of the power scale. Can't say the same of DA or CSM. =( You have the 'balanced' books, and then the Xeno books have a bunch of MC models. It's part of what makes psychic choir tyrnids so strong, is having toughness rather than AV.

I really hope C:SM gets something competitive.

Well, CSM was written before the 6th really even hit, as evidenced by the Helldrake, and DA were written with only the initial responses to 6th as feedback, so the flier is nerfed hard and the rest of the meta hadn't settled out yet. Daemons are also a bit off, but better, and 6th was pretty solidly in place when Tau and Eldar were being written, so they fit the meta and rules better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Carnage43 wrote:

We are likely to see;
8-10 "Chapter Relics" in the armory, 2 of which are amazing, 2 of which are okay, and the rest will be poor or extremely situational.
30-40 point break on most of the generic characters.
TH/SS terminators going up 5 points.
Whirlwinds, predators, razors, devastators to match the costs in the DA codex.
No changes to Storm Raven/Storm Talon.
Pretty much the same special characters, with maybe 1-2 of the old out, and 1-2 new ones in.
Tacticals down to 14 each, with the sergeant being optional, ala Dark Angels.
Bikes down to 20 points each.
ASM down 1 point each.
Legion of the damned are likely out.
A captain on a bike making bikes troops....I'm holding my breath on this one surviving the new book.
LRs and drop pods down to 10 models transported.
HUGE points break for vanguard with jump-packs

I agree with most of us but a few:
Pretty much the same special characters, with maybe 1-2 of the old out, and 1-2 new ones in.
They all have models, so I don't expect any current characters to go away. As for new ones, besides the possibility of BT being rolled in, my guess would be Chaplain Xavier of the Salamanders (with Terminator Armor option to make a new model for him) and a character for the Iron Hands.
Legion of the damned are likely out.
Again, there are quite a few models for them, so I expect them to stay.

As for new kits, per Hastings there is a new Rhino chassis model, which I guess will be either the Sabre tank hunter or a gun artillery of some type, and Heavy Terminators/light Dreadnoughts. As for a third kit and new unit, a plastic thunderfire/rapier destroyer would fit in well, and finally give people a plastic techmarine. Maybe a recut (dreadnought?) and since DA got a chaplain model as a mini-sprue, SM will most likely get a Librarian for their plastic clam pack.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
I hate how he treats the SoB but I love his New-crons fluff,

Which is part of the problem however. Ward never treated SoB any different than other writers did... Kelly in the Space Wolves Codex for example (which also features the by far most awkward Xenos-Marines bro-fist moment, with Eldar Scorpions and Wolf-Guard doing their odd Circle Dance routine in the Great Hall of Fenris). But people accept it in the Wolves-book, cause it's not Ward, but "hate" on it in the GK-Codex, cause 4Chan tells them to hate it.

These odd double-standards are what's so puzzling about it.

Where, exactly, is that written? The closest I can find is on page 19 under An Alliance Broken, where Autarch Elenduil brings the fallen battle brothers after eldar and the space wolves fought off a Waaaagh!, when a mistranslation lead into the two trading blows and sending the sector into a three way war.

I know you get annoyed with people misrepresent Ward, but don't fall into the same traps.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 RogueMage wrote:

as for rules wise my biggest thing was giving flippin Terminators a 3+ Invulnerable! ..ridiculous in my opinion, but that's just my opinion

No its not only your opinion, i completly agree with you, Giving a 3++ to models in the game was just bat gak insane.

[...]

Say that to my Wraiths. They have base 3++ save, no armour save. And they die, sometimes insta-killed. All it needs is units focus firing on it and they will die.

Matt Ward had it's moments, let's say. I think that no matter what he writes, it becomes a "Either you love it, or you hate it" topic, there's no mid term. I hate how he treats the SoB but I love his New-crons fluff, and I think I'm on a minority because I have seen plenty of new-crons hate here in dakkadakka.

On topic: Those rumors look a bit bogus to me. I hope they really are trying to improve the SM formula being the iconic army they are, and the optional rule-books are good for the sake of variety (You can play with a Iyanden army just using the Codex, you don't need the optional book, only if you really want the fluff-iest as possible).

I just wonder what the new MC will be

There's a huge difference though between Wraiths having a 3++ save and Terminators having a 3++ save...
Wraiths have no armour save at all, That 3++ invuln is all they get, meaning you're likely treating them just like any other MEQ unit and drowning them in small arms fire.

Terminators on the other hand already have a 2+ armour save. This makes them pretty damn resilient against small and medium arms fire, thus making the natural counter to them anything with a low ap value. That's where the Storm Shield's 3++ becomes just too much - it's a heavy counter for what is meant to be a natural built-in weakness!
If Storm Shields where either a flat 4++ vs everything OR a 3++ in combat only, you wouldn't see nearly as much resentment about the things because they wouldn't be quite so insanely good.


That's Ward's biggest problem. He treats his rules writing like he wants the game to become just rock/papper/scissors/nuke.

Overall Codex Marines aren't too bad, but he did give them a couple of 'nuke options' in 3++ storm shields and transport capacity 12 Land Raiders. (which he even admitted he got disciplined for!)
But then go look at Blood Angels... They're pretty much nothing but rock to Codex Marines being scissors. Absolutely everything Marines can do, BA's do better and cheaper with faster & more cost efficient transports.
Grey Knights ruined 5th edition for a lot of people, and pretty much entirely removed two entire armies from the game itself! (at least until the WD Daemons update made Flamers & Screamer into the newest filth...)

As mentioned, he ruined Fantasy completely as well... 7th ed Orcs & Gobbos were so bad, even die-hard greenskin players shelved their armies! (and THAT'S saying something!) Why were they so crap? Because Ward doesn't like greenskins and didn't really want to do that particular project.
Then Daemons hit and they were nothing but an entire army book of nukes with multiple near-instant win lists. (MSU Horrors w/Dark Insanity 'Thirster, Nurgle 'uber anvils, Master of Sorcery spam, Bloodletter hordes of doom, Siren Song, Ld bombs, etc...)

And his first two 8th ed books aren't leaving much room for optimisium either.
Daemons of Chaos is a complete mess and looks like Ward again didn't care at all about the quality or final product. Half the book is useless crap, Nurgle is borderline OP, Reign of Comedy is brutal to the Daemon player, the no-brainers are shockingly obvious, etc...
Then two months later, High Elves come out and not only are they a very strong book with few real weaknesses, but Ward turns around and gives them an item that 100% screws over the entire Daemons book... you know, they one he'd written just before HE's?!


At least he's consistent about ruining Daemons and making them into a laughing stock... I guess that might be a positive depending what side you're on?!

Whoa now!

Why in the hell would Legion of the Damned be out?

Who is saying this or are you just talking out of your arse?

Experiment 626 wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 RogueMage wrote:

...

...

...

... but he did give them a couple of 'nuke options' in 3++ storm shields and transport capacity 12 Land Raiders. (which he even admitted he got disciplined for!) ...

Tee hee hee… But how else can I have my LC(reroll to wound) terminators + terminator chaplain(reroll to hit to the unit) charge out of my LR? It is one of the most beautiful sights in the game

It is interesting to see the TH/SS terminators 2+/3++ are the same price as Lychguard 3+/4++., even if the Lychguard are S5 T5. Maybe in the next SM dex SS will be 4+

Moving to 40k General Discussion

 vim_the_good wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 RogueMage wrote:

...

...

...

... but he did give them a couple of 'nuke options' in 3++ storm shields and transport capacity 12 Land Raiders. (which he even admitted he got disciplined for!) ...

Tee hee hee… But how else can I have my LC(reroll to wound) terminators + terminator chaplain(reroll to hit to the unit) charge out of my LR? It is one of the most beautiful sights in the game

It is interesting to see the TH/SS terminators 2+/3++ are the same price as Lychguard 3+/4++., even if the Lychguard are S5 T5. Maybe in the next SM dex SS will be 4+

The Lychguard also have AP1 weapons that strike before I1, but yeah. It's not that TH/SS Terminators are undercosted, it's that Lychguard are overcosted.

 RogueMage wrote:

Mat Ward had Ultramarine oral diarrhea...if you grew up playing the game and played Marines you suddenly have a marine chapter who's 2nd best

This is just you not knowing the history of 40K, lol.

The back cover of Codex: Ultramarines from 1993 called them "The Greatest of all Space Marine Chapters", and that gak was written by Priestley and Chambers. The Ultramarines have always been the best Space Marine Chapter, even if they've never had the best codex list, lol. With the exception of a few sentences that were worded a bit heavy handed, nearly all the material people complain about from C:SM5E existed before Mat Ward just compiled it for the 5th Edition Codex. But that's really not a big deal. Nearly all of the codex books, especially the Marine ones, feature the Chapter or its heroes doing something ridiculously over the top.

Mat Ward has to be the most irrationally hated man on the planet.

But then again, he wrote the Ultramarines codex, and the Ultramarines are the most irrationally hated Chapter in the game, even before the 5E codex dropped.

 SickSix wrote:
Whoa now!

Why in the hell would Legion of the Damned be out?

Who is saying this or are you just talking out of your arse?

Just my guess at what we are likely to see in the new book. LotD have been so laughably irrelevant for so long they are basically a waste of paper to keep printing the same crap. I could see a "Cursed Founding" supplement maybe for them and a few other chapters, but they really have no use or place in the vanilla marine book.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Whoa now!

Why in the hell would Legion of the Damned be out?

Who is saying this or are you just talking out of your arse?

Just my guess at what we are likely to see in the new book. LotD have been so laughably irrelevant for so long they are basically a waste of paper to keep printing the same crap. I could see a "Cursed Founding" supplement maybe for them and a few other chapters, but they really have no use or place in the vanilla marine book.

They have models, meaning they'll most definitely stick around and likely get a complete overhaul in terms of their rules.

 Crimson wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What, like 3rd edition and its Ultramarines, etc codexes that required another book to use?

Yes. At $50 US each. You want a White Scars army? Get ready to drop $100.

Iyanden supplement was not the same price as the codex. It may still be too expensive, but at least get your facts straight. I've seen codex price supplement repeated so many times that it seems that most people actually believe that this is the case.

Um...yes it was?

Codex: Eldar http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2060036a

Iyanden Supplement http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2100012a

Both the same price.

My one greatest hope is that Apothecary's get made elite like the blood angels sanguinary priests. Giving feel no pain to the squad and near by units. i thinks its silly in the currant rules for what is knda the space marine medic only tends to the command squad while his poor battle bros are getting torn up around him.

Also this rumour about a big dreadnought type of miniature, i think it would be cool if it where some sort of adeptus mechanicus construct instead to being piloted by a marine. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111026164232/warhammer40k/images/f/ff/Post-4-1241578053.jpg

I can only hope

 prpetros wrote:
My one greatest hope is that Apothecary's get made elite like the blood angels sanguinary priests. Giving feel no pain to the squad and near by units. i thinks its silly in the currant rules for what is knda the space marine medic only tends to the command squad while his poor battle bros are getting torn up around him.

Also this rumour about a big dreadnought type of miniature, i think it would be cool if it where some sort of adeptus mechanicus construct instead to being piloted by a marine. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111026164232/warhammer40k/images/f/ff/Post-4-1241578053.jpg

I can only hope

Agree. Also what do people think of a nice fluffy and useful 10th company HQ? I know some characters give infiltrate etc to a unit and it is entirely possible to field a scout army but I mean a nice 10th company HQ that really makes scouts shine.

I don't mind Ward, I can do this:


I'm hoping to see some interesting chapter rules.

 prpetros wrote:
My one greatest hope is that Apothecary's get made elite like the blood angels sanguinary priests. Giving feel no pain to the squad and near by units. i thinks its silly in the currant rules for what is knda the space marine medic only tends to the command squad while his poor battle bros are getting torn up around him.

Also this rumour about a big dreadnought type of miniature, i think it would be cool if it where some sort of adeptus mechanicus construct instead to being piloted by a marine. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111026164232/warhammer40k/images/f/ff/Post-4-1241578053.jpg

I can only hope

Anything is possible, The First Heretic (I believe that's the one) had a Mechanicus mech that was an honorary member of the Word Bearers.

New news from Faeit:

natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/space-marine-codex-rumors-rhino.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212)&m=1

I think you were looking more for something like this:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/space-marine-codex-rumors-rhino.html

via The Emperor Himself on Warseer
Some info regarding the upcoming Space Marine Codex. Rhino variants to include a command Rhino, a medic Rhino and an armoured recovery Rhino. Each of these can be purchased as upgrades for the basic Rhino and provide enhancements to their Space Marine squad. Dreadnoughts to provide bonuses to nearby units owing to their 'Inspiring Presence'. These developments are inline with the design philosophy behind the new Codex to promote synergies between units to increase the tactical depth of Space Marines.

That's be kinda neat. Assuming it's done well it'd give you a reason to take Rhinoes again. The Armoured Recovery Rhino sounds like it'd be AV13 front as well.

Id love the idea of a rhino I can park behind an ADL to give an AOE FNP

 pretre wrote:
I think you were looking more for something like this:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/space-marine-codex-rumors-rhino.html

via The Emperor Himself on Warseer
Some info regarding the upcoming Space Marine Codex. Rhino variants to include a command Rhino, a medic Rhino and an armoured recovery Rhino. Each of these can be purchased as upgrades for the basic Rhino and provide enhancements to their Space Marine squad. Dreadnoughts to provide bonuses to nearby units owing to their 'Inspiring Presence'. These developments are inline with the design philosophy behind the new Codex to promote synergies between units to increase the tactical depth of Space Marines.

I can already hear the lamentations of despair from every single DA player if this turns out to be true...

Experiment 626 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think you were looking more for something like this:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/space-marine-codex-rumors-rhino.html

via The Emperor Himself on Warseer
Some info regarding the upcoming Space Marine Codex. Rhino variants to include a command Rhino, a medic Rhino and an armoured recovery Rhino. Each of these can be purchased as upgrades for the basic Rhino and provide enhancements to their Space Marine squad. Dreadnoughts to provide bonuses to nearby units owing to their 'Inspiring Presence'. These developments are inline with the design philosophy behind the new Codex to promote synergies between units to increase the tactical depth of Space Marines.

I can already hear the lamentations of despair from every single DA player if this turns out to be true...

Yeah, I kind of feel a little bad for DA players if this turns out to be true. I guess this will be another way to distinquish Codex compliant marines from the others. Its not like Codex Marines will get termies as troops or those plasma blasters on bikes anyway.

So ok...rumors aside people are talking about their wish lists. Thought I'd post mine. #1: BRING BACK BUILD YOUR OWN CHAPTER!!! lol... no really though. #2: artillery... seriously. You cant claim to be tactical gods without it, and no....that miserable excuse of indirect called the "whirlwind" IS NOT artillery. #3: a decent flyer that is worth it's points ( I feel the Raven is WAY over priced when compared to the other flyers. The Raven IS cool yes, but double or more than everyone else's flyer). That's pretty much it. On a flip wish / want I could ask GW to stop exploiting their customer base. Resin is cheap but fine cast costs more. I don't get it, but its shameful that the cast quality took a dive with it....but that's ok...GW will release a product called "liquid resin" so that you can fix their quality control issues and out of added expense to your own pocket no less. Lastly stop with the "expansion" codexes. People don't want to haul a library around to play their army. Put it ONE book. I know you can afford to do that. Instead of writing expansion to new codices, how about getting some of the ancient codices redone like SISTERS OF BATTLE. I don't play them personally, but I have friends that do. They have beautiful armies of them and cant play them cause they just don't have the rule base to sustain. Claiming White Dwarf put out rules over the course of 3 issues is a cop out. ...There my rant is done. For those who read on, thanks for putting up with me.

Heath.Korinek wrote:
So ok...rumors aside people are talking about their wish lists. Thought I'd post mine. #1: BRING BACK BUILD YOUR OWN CHAPTER!!! lol... no really though.

If they do they'll just ruin it and every one will take the same traits because they'll be the only ones worth taking.

#2: artillery... seriously. You cant claim to be tactical gods without it, and no....that miserable excuse of indirect called the "whirlwind" IS NOT artillery.

Artillery is for Guard. Marines have no use for such things. That's why they have the Whirlwind. Because it can keep up with the advancing marines.

#3: a decent flyer that is worth it's points ( I feel the Raven is WAY over priced when compared to the other flyers. The Raven IS cool yes, but double or more than everyone else's flyer). That's pretty much it.

Might happen but I doubt it.

On a flip wish / want I could ask GW to stop exploiting their customer base. Resin is cheap but fine cast costs more. I don't get it, but its shameful that the cast quality took a dive with it....but that's ok...GW will release a product called "liquid resin" so that you can fix their quality control issues and out of added expense to your own pocket no less.

Your hate for Failcast is better suited for a whining thread... not one about Space Marine rumors.

Lastly stop with the "expansion" codexes. People don't want to haul a library around to play their army. Put it ONE book.

Have you even seen the Eldar supplement? You don't need it to play Eldar. It's extra... like fancy dice or a glorified tape measurer.

Instead of writing expansion to new codices, how about getting some of the ancient codices redone like SISTERS OF BATTLE.

I'm sure you meant Orks or Black Templars. Sisters have new rules.

They have beautiful armies of them and cant play them cause they just don't have the rule base to sustain.

What does that even mean?

Claiming White Dwarf put out rules over the course of 3 issues is a cop out. ...

2 and it's not a cop out... it's fact.

Sisters have new rules

*applauds*

You can't buy those two WD's.
Only pirate them.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Sisters have new rules

*applauds*

You can't buy those two WD's.
Only pirate them.

So? They still have rules.

Oh, and Ebay would like a word with you. And you can also call GW and they'll tell you all the rules.

 DeffDred wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Sisters have new rules

*applauds*

You can't buy those two WD's.
Only pirate them.

So? They still have rules.

Oh, and Ebay would like a word with you. And you can also call GW and they'll tell you all the rules.

Gw giving stuff for free, yeah, right.

Yeah, they have new rules. Small chance of obtaining them through legal ways.
Just like Squats.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Sisters have new rules

*applauds*

You can't buy those two WD's.
Only pirate them.

So? They still have rules.

Oh, and Ebay would like a word with you. And you can also call GW and they'll tell you all the rules.

Gw giving stuff for free, yeah, right.

Yeah, they have new rules. Small chance of obtaining them through legal ways.
Just like Squats.

Yes, free rules. You can read all about it in the "Where are my plastic sisters?" Thread.

Well, that's odd.

Heath.Korinek wrote:
So ok...rumors aside people are talking about their wish lists. Thought I'd post mine. #1: BRING BACK BUILD YOUR OWN CHAPTER!!! lol... no really though. #2: artillery... seriously. You cant claim to be tactical gods without it, and no....that miserable excuse of indirect called the "whirlwind" IS NOT artillery. #3: a decent flyer that is worth it's points ( I feel the Raven is WAY over priced when compared to the other flyers. The Raven IS cool yes, but double or more than everyone else's flyer). That's pretty much it.

#1: I agree, and I think there are a number of ways to do it right, but I'm kind of thinking GW will just save the special chapter traits for the supplemental books.

#2: I too would like some artillery, but not in the form of guard-style artillery, but more in the form of compact, mobile platforms like the TFC. Maybe some more gun options for the same chassis.

#3: The Stormraven is fine as it is. Compared to the other 6th edition fliers, its not overpriced at all. After all, its essentially a flying Landraider for fewer points. Along with the Stormtalon, the codex marines have the best flyer combo in the game if you ask me.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

#1: I agree, and I think there are a number of ways to do it right, but I'm kind of thinking GW will just save the special chapter traits for the supplemental books.

This is my guess; Personally I would like to see Two or Three Special Character for each Major Chapter, especially the Founding Chapters. Say Three for each founding two for each of the successors.

#2: I too would like some artillery, but not in the form of guard-style artillery, but more in the form of compact, mobile platforms like the TFC. Maybe some more gun options for the same chassis.

I would like to see the return of Rapiers and Thud Guns. Maybe the Land Raider Aries.

#3: The Stormraven is fine as it is. Compared to the other 6th edition fliers, it’s not overpriced at all. After all, it’s essentially a flying Land Raider for fewer points. Along with the Storm Talon, the codex marines have the best flyer combo in the game if you ask me.

That has been my Experience.

I've been told Power Armor Marines are a thing of the past and Terminators can be cutdown by a hot knife thru butter.

Puscifer wrote:
You can't nerf a Marine Son.

They are the cornerstone of 40k.

As for Necrons being a solid release with good rules... JUST NO!!! I stopped playing Necrons because of the new rules. Broken beyond belief, the models were subpar and the fluff was all fist bumpy friendly BULL****!!!

Dark Eldar though, got it right.

That was my favourite release.

I'd only ever bought 1 dark elder model ever, never read any of their rules and didn't own the codex but the second that release appeared on the GW website I bought 5 incubi, 20 kabalites, 2 raiders, 10 wyches and an archon. Literally the minute I layed eyes in them. Never regretted it. It won't happen again until the plastic greater daemons finally come out.

 DeffDred wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Sisters have new rules

*applauds*

You can't buy those two WD's.
Only pirate them.

So? They still have rules.

Oh, and Ebay would like a word with you. And you can also call GW and they'll tell you all the rules.

A shockingly limited codex that gives you little optimization and faith system only really works well in low cost games. I'll say this. SoB need a new codex the most. That and look at their fething models! They are all so old! I'll throw in saying Black Templar need an update (I'm expecting a supplement actually) and orks (which I have a feeling will be updated pretty soon)

Th/SS are probably going to be upped in cost. A generic flyer perhaps? Some pseudo termie/dreadnought as their iconic new unit. CC oriented perhaps?

 Anpu42 wrote:

#2: I too would like some artillery, but not in the form of guard-style artillery, but more in the form of compact, mobile platforms like the TFC. Maybe some more gun options for the same chassis.

I would like to see the return of Rapiers and Thud Guns. Maybe the Land Raider Aries.

The TFC is more or less a glorified Thudd Gun. I'd like to see the rapier or something like it make a return (the current rapier by FW is awful). I'd also like to see something truly nasty, like some form of blast template conversion beamer.

 pretre wrote:
I think you were looking more for something like this:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/space-marine-codex-rumors-rhino.html

via The Emperor Himself on Warseer
Some info regarding the upcoming Space Marine Codex. Rhino variants to include a command Rhino, a medic Rhino and an armoured recovery Rhino. Each of these can be purchased as upgrades for the basic Rhino and provide enhancements to their Space Marine squad. Dreadnoughts to provide bonuses to nearby units owing to their 'Inspiring Presence'. These developments are inline with the design philosophy behind the new Codex to promote synergies between units to increase the tactical depth of Space Marines.

Hmm well I can already guess that the medic Rhino will give FNP to a squad withing 6" of it or something similar. Armored recovery Rhino probably has better AV. No idea what a command rhino would do, I always thought a Razorback filled that role...

Well, those new rhinos would give mre great excuses to buy more.......I mean repaint

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, those new rhinos would give mre great excuses to buy more.......I mean repaint

Right? I can't wait to see all the white rhinos with red crosses on them.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

No idea what a command rhino would do, I always thought a Razorback filled that role...

re-roll leaderhsip of course.... Or maybe units can score while embarked

 DeffDred wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, those new rhinos would give mre great excuses to buy more.......I mean repaint

Right? I can't wait to see all the white rhinos with red crosses on them.

I wonder if ther will be a kit or it will just be an upgrade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Watch, the Apothecary Rhino does the same thing as a ghost ark

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:


Hmm well I can already guess that the medic Rhino will give FNP to a squad withing 6" of it or something similar. Armored recovery Rhino probably has better AV. No idea what a command rhino would do, I always thought a Razorback filled that role...

Apoth rhino is probably the FnP aura.
No idea on the techmarine one....power field aura? Repair other vehicles? Who knows.
Command rhino is probably bonuses to reserves and reroll LD tests within 6-12 inches. Forgeworld already makes one of these, and it also has the orbital bombardment that chapter masters have and the reserve bonus.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

#2: I too would like some artillery, but not in the form of guard-style artillery, but more in the form of compact, mobile platforms like the TFC. Maybe some more gun options for the same chassis.

I would like to see the return of Rapiers and Thud Guns. Maybe the Land Raider Aries.

The TFC is more or less a glorified Thudd Gun. I'd like to see the rapier or something like it make a return (the current rapier by FW is awful). I'd also like to see something truly nasty, like some form of blast template conversion beamer.

...you do realize that the current Conversion Beamer is a blast weapon, right?

Given the current trend of MC in every codex, they'll probably either straight up give them Dreadknights or something more along the lines of a larger and swifter Dreadnaught that for some unknown reason is an MC istead of an AV14/13/11 walker lol oh and dont forget the jetpack rules! gotta have another JSJ model too!

Really wish they would just completely rework walkers as a whole so that now theyre all MCs and have rules to fix/tweak what would be broken since MC lack certain rules Walkers kinda depend on (such as every melee weapon = another melee attack or more than 2 guns per shooting phase). If they didnt tweak those or add rules to allow it, some of the walkers would be even more pointless since they couldnt use all their guns anymore.

With the release of the Reserve company Captains in the latest WD, is it possible we could see 8th Co Captain unlocking assault squads, 9th Co Captain unlocking devastator squads as troops?

 dracpanzer wrote:
With the release of the Reserve company Captains in the latest WD, is it possible we could see 8th Co Captain unlocking assault squads, 9th Co Captain unlocking devastator squads as troops?

Those guys are for Apocalypse, and I'm sure there will be a formation for them similar to http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1080018a&prodId=prod2090002a. Of course, this has been updated with the new models, but you get the picture.

Devastators as troops? With the same points cost as the Dark Angel's codex?

I have not touched 40k in about 3 years or something since I had my grey knight's army, been deeply in fantasy... but if Imperial Fist's get there own codex thing.... guess I'd be starting a new 40k army lol. There the only 40k army that I really like, and have had a soft spot for them since they were the first 40k army I ever did : )

On Supplements:

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:all the codexes, even Chaos Space Marines and Tau

There is not going to be another Eldar one in 2013.

White Scars is one of the supplement codexes, and it is also complete (borderline printed) so logic dictates it'll be released a few weeks after the SM codex, but I don't have a street date for you.

Space marines will be getting 2 supplement codexes though by the end of 2013, so again... chances are white scars will be one of them.

For the Blood Angels and Space Wolves players, fear not you will be getting full codex support and not just supplements. Read between those lines.

Poor Black templars
Also:

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:the Space Marine special character changes to Combat Tactics still exist, but are also now available for purchase as an upgrade to a generic HQ allowing you to play Ravenguard without Shrike, or Salamanders without Vulkan.

The special characters usually also include some other more specific army-wide changes included in the replacement of Combat Tactics to make them still desirable, as they represent a specific company, within a different chapter, etc.

Space marines will be getting 2 supplement codexes though by the end of 2013

Lastly, Ultramarines are not the focus of the Space Marine book any more. Instead the pages describe the book representing any of the second founding chapters, and many of the founding as well who converted to following the Codex Astartes. Outside of the over-abundance of Ultramarine special characters it's not "their book" anymore, which means it leaves things open for them getting a dedicated supplement as well.

And, because we talked about supplements:

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:I've heard about a supplement for tyranids, that they will be getting a genestealer cult supplement possibly something akin the recent GW tourny rules we saw at Warhammer World.