Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
That ship sailed ages ago and the lore bit you mention is dead since abomination that was 6th edition Tau book:
Well, comparing, the Ta'unar is knight-sized (not even as big as a warhound), so they've bent but not broken that just yet.
Uh, what? Stormsurge is knight sized, Taunar is just as big as Warhound (well, slightly lower, but accounting for the guns on top it's even taller), and the 3 top guns are all bigger than Warhound turbolasers. At best you can argue Taunar is slightly lighter class, mounting 1 gun on top heavier than Warhound arm guns, with the two arm guns being 'light' titan weapons, but no more than that IMO...
I was going by this picture:
The Taunar’s frame is smaller than a warhound, looks to be Cerastus Knight sized. Oversized weapons, but that speaks to the “hitting well above their size class”.
Yes, the Taunar might be nearly as tall as a Warhound, but like the Cerastus Knight it's significantly smaller, as the Warhound is about as long and wide as it is tall.
has there been any talk about "universal" legion rules in titandeath?
not all of us are inntrested in running the "official " legions that are in the rule book or the titandeath expansion.
Well we got our Titan between Reaver and Warlord in the Warbringer (which I really like) but what purpose would a light Titan smaller than a Warhound serve? I don't get that at all. There are already Knights that fill all sorts of roles and come in varied sizes.
FrozenDwarf wrote: has there been any talk about "universal" legion rules in titandeath?
not all of us are inntrested in running the "official " legions that are in the rule book or the titandeath expansion.
Unlikely. Do what 40k players have done. Say "these use rules for legion X". That's what my Legio Victorum is going to do!
SickSix wrote: Well we got our Titan between Reaver and Warlord in the Warbringer (which I really like) but what purpose would a light Titan smaller than a Warhound serve? I don't get that at all. There are already Knights that fill all sorts of roles and come in varied sizes.
More offensive weaponry and durability than a Knight, greater speed and maneuverability than a Warhound. The only chassis that Knights have that's heavier than the (already in game) Cerastus is the Acastus, and I believe that's a Mechanicum not Legio unit, so there's scope.
FrozenDwarf wrote: has there been any talk about "universal" legion rules in titandeath?
not all of us are inntrested in running the "official " legions that are in the rule book or the titandeath expansion.
I don't know, but the rulebook does address one player having legio rules while the other doesn't. You get extra stratagem points. See page 89.
It's not perfect, but it handles the situation better than 40K does.
Chopstick wrote: Eldar Titan can leap over a building and blast a Titan in the rear , but since the rule writer of this game deliberately went out of his way to disregard common sense for balance they'd probably end up with weird rule.
You've got my curiosity. What would have been common sense for balance?
Fajita Fan wrote: I'd love to see more generic legio rules that us homebrewers can use.
Or you can be sensible and just cherry pick a Legio's rules that you like the look of, just because they labeled it Legio Tempestus doesn't mean they can only be used by models painted blue.
Fajita Fan wrote: I'd love to see more generic legio rules that us homebrewers can use.
Or you can be sensible and just cherry pick a Legio's rules that you like the look of, just because they labeled it Legio Tempestus doesn't mean they can only be used by models painted blue.
Sure but I’m a fluff gamer and it’d be nice to have a few generic ones (like the generic rites of war in 30k) where I could pick one that really fits the theme. A guy can dream...
I believe they mentioned on stream is ideas you pick one, my slaanesh winter themed legion uses gryphonicus as it matches I just reword the names of the rules to be fluffy for them.
Im really hoping there are 3-4 legion rules in new book so there is good variety.
tneva82 wrote: And that's still nowhere near the equilavent of reaver, warbringer or warlord scale nevermind imperator. We have no evidence of tau suits that big.
Let me point out that until Taunar appeared out of thin air without warning or hints, same was true about Warhound sized models. Wanna bet one snap of fingers and megasupremacy armour will suddenly appear if FW wants it? It's not like it doesn't have fluff justification, Tau are on 5th expansion zone now and there was at least 300 years since they shown anything new, plenty of time to develop proper titan. If they can pull Stormsurge and Taunar out of their collective arses in what was literally weeks, three centuries are much more realistic window to produce Tau'lord...
The Taunar’s frame is smaller than a warhound, looks to be Cerastus Knight sized. Oversized weapons, but that speaks to the “hitting well above their size class”.
Two big problems with this picture: One, that is either scratch built or some sort of older Warhound model. This is not the smooth, modern Warhound which isn't that tall IIRC. Also, it's standing completely straight, put it in any sort of walking pose and it will easily lose 2-5 cm.
Two, even bigger one, Cerastus is on scenic base and is closer to us. Taunar stands on table. Put it on base next to it and it will tower over both, its carapace roughly level with Warhound head, and the guns sticking above its top plate, especially the huge launcher one.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Yes, the Taunar might be nearly as tall as a Warhound, but like the Cerastus Knight it's significantly smaller, as the Warhound is about as long and wide as it is tall.
A) See above, B) if you actually ever saw these models in person, you'd see Taunar is bulkier than Cerastus and its main body is pretty similar in volume to Warhound. So, nope, twice.
Two big problems with this picture: One, that is either scratch built or some sort of older Warhound model. This is not the smooth, modern Warhound which isn't that tall IIRC. Also, it's standing completely straight, put it in any sort of walking pose and it will easily lose 2-5 cm.
Two, even bigger one, Cerastus is on scenic base and is closer to us. Taunar stands on table. Put it on base next to it and it will tower over both, its carapace roughly level with Warhound head, and the guns sticking above its top plate, especially the huge launcher one.
That's the Lucius pattern warhound, in a rather neutral pose. Very close in size to the Mars pattern, within a cm or so.
Right leg of the cerastus is nearly even with the right leg on the taunar. And that is a plastic base with sand and static grass, only giving it a couple mm of height. Very minimal effect on height due to perspective.
Taunar body is bulkier than the cerastus, but does have large cutouts for the smart missile and burst cannon arrays under the chest. And the body fits 3 crew, which only take up the head of the warhound.
A proper Imperial comparison for the Taunar is not the Warhound, but the Acastus Knight at most.
tneva82 wrote: And that's still nowhere near the equilavent of reaver, warbringer or warlord scale nevermind imperator. We have no evidence of tau suits that big.
Let me point out that until Taunar appeared out of thin air without warning or hints, same was true about Warhound sized models. Wanna bet one snap of fingers and megasupremacy armour will suddenly appear if FW wants it? It's not like it doesn't have fluff justification, Tau are on 5th expansion zone now and there was at least 300 years since they shown anything new, plenty of time to develop proper titan. If they can pull Stormsurge and Taunar out of their collective arses in what was literally weeks, three centuries are much more realistic window to produce Tau'lord...
Yes FW CAN do it if they want. But so far they haven't and thus claims that the old fluff is already broken is just urban myth. There's no evidence whatsoever of warlord sized tau walkers. There's evidence of dedicated titan killing flyers though.
Could also just be the result of 'feasibility studies' into how well the old Debigulator deals with smaller models.
We know they had to modify the Warlord design following Debigulation, to make sure the parts actually worked.
Running the odd tank and flyer through it (And the Russ does have some fairly fine detail) may have just been them seeing what they can do, and how long it takes to tidy it all up. That in itself is going to be a big part of whether we see Epic ever again. After all, if you can confidentally and relatively quickly just debigulate, that's a cheaper production method than having to do each one from scratch. And the cheaper they can make the production, the more likely we are to see it. And indeed, the more variety they can offer close to launch, because that's what Epic really needs!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Could also just be the result of 'feasibility studies' into how well the old Debigulator deals with smaller models.
We know they had to modify the Warlord design following Debigulation, to make sure the parts actually worked.
Running the odd tank and flyer through it (And the Russ does have some fairly fine detail) may have just been them seeing what they can do, and how long it takes to tidy it all up. That in itself is going to be a big part of whether we see Epic ever again. After all, if you can confidentally and relatively quickly just debigulate, that's a cheaper production method than having to do each one from scratch. And the cheaper they can make the production, the more likely we are to see it. And indeed, the more variety they can offer close to launch, because that's what Epic really needs!
They already know what 6mm leman russes looks like though. Ditto for plenty of newer marine vehicles like land raider etc.
But it's whether they need to be designed from scratch, or can be rescaled from existing files.
The latter is a much cheaper way to do it, and that will affect any decision to pursue Epic as a full system, and indeed how soon we might see it.
If a decent percentage can be resized with minimal adjustments, that's just a more attractive prospect than having to redo the majority of the Heresy range in miniature - both in terms of cost, and the necessary man hours.
For example. If they can, then that might be a weekend 'free lance' job for SG peeps. Just take a couple of files home, do your dooberry, back in on Monday with them suitably resized.
I don't think those terrain tiles are a CAD job. FW showed photos of the design process and they're basically just sticking stuff onto a tile then taking a mold of it.
They could have even used an old metal Russ for this!
xttz wrote: I don't think those terrain tiles are a CAD job. FW showed photos of the design process and they're basically just sticking stuff onto a tile then taking a mold of it.
They could have even used an old metal Russ for this!
That's not one of the old style Russes. That's the new style
I feel like that terrain would be much more appealing to buy if it was not fixed to a resin board. Selling individual buildings would be both cheaper and more modular.
A sprue of destroyed tanks and ships would also be great for basing and sprinkling around a board!
Commander Cain wrote: I feel like that terrain would be much more appealing to buy if it was not fixed to a resin board. Selling individual buildings would be both cheaper and more modular.
A sprue of destroyed tanks and ships would also be great for basing and sprinkling around a board!
Individual buildings are the plastic ones you can buy from GW. FW sells boards to put those on.
Never been a fan myself, they seem pricey for what they are, I would love to see a bit of LOS blocking scenery released at some point as I am a bit crap at making it.
I definitely recommend DIY'ing the board and at least non-centerpiece scenery. Obviously you save a lot of money in the process but you can tailor your games to fit your scenarios.
Never been a fan myself, they seem pricey for what they are, I would love to see a bit of LOS blocking scenery released at some point as I am a bit crap at making it.
I don't have these but I have the zone mortalis boards.
They are underwhelming for the price... I was complemented on my skill at adding corrosion to them. I had to explain that was where a previous pull had torn the moulds and they just kept using it. All I did was drybrush some rust effects onto those barnacles.
I've got loads of FW stuff, these are very different in quality.
Also, seeing the amount of distortion in those 12x12 tiles completely put me off from buying their 24x24 tiles and reports of sagging and twisting in the industrial sector tiles suggests I was correct.
These might be completely different but I'd want to see and handle them before deciding to order.
With the recent Battlegroup box set, maybe there will be a follow up Knight banner set, containing 3 Questoris and 2 Lancers...£32-ish. The two Knight types are together in the new Command Terminal set, and if there is a resin upgrade set, maybe it provides for both of them...the Questoris only seem to be missing that missile rack option...
With the recent Battlegroup box set, maybe there will be a follow up Knight banner set, containing 3 Questoris and 2 Lancers...£32-ish. The two Knight types are together in the new Command Terminal set, and if there is a resin upgrade set, maybe it provides for both of them...the Questoris only seem to be missing that missile rack option...
Umh the battlebox was just part of christmast deals. OOP soon enough and unlikely to herald another discount box in new any time soon. Rather soon there won't be any discount box to AT on sale. Until at least next christmast anyway
With the recent Battlegroup box set, maybe there will be a follow up Knight banner set, containing 3 Questoris and 2 Lancers...£32-ish. The two Knight types are together in the new Command Terminal set, and if there is a resin upgrade set, maybe it provides for both of them...the Questoris only seem to be missing that missile rack option...
Umh the battlebox was just part of christmast deals. OOP soon enough and unlikely to herald another discount box in new any time soon. Rather soon there won't be any discount box to AT on sale. Until at least next christmast anyway
I suppose there is also the time-gap to get the Cerastus' restocked after the initial pre-order release. Even if such a thing is scheduled, it would be March at the earliest.
I don't have these but I have the zone mortalis boards.
They are underwhelming for the price... I was complemented on my skill at adding corrosion to them. I had to explain that was where a previous pull had torn the moulds and they just kept using it. All I did was drybrush some rust effects onto those barnacles.
I've got loads of FW stuff, these are very different in quality.
Also, seeing the amount of distortion in those 12x12 tiles completely put me off from buying their 24x24 tiles and reports of sagging and twisting in the industrial sector tiles suggests I was correct.
These might be completely different but I'd want to see and handle them before deciding to order.
Yea I suspected as much I always look at the boards in WW, even the newer ones do seem to be a little warped and the best ones always had work done to add a lot of stuff to them. A chap I know has ordered four recently so I will see how he gets on with them.
That landing pad one doesn't really work with the road sections though, does it? I gues you could put it against the road-free edges of the straight and T-junction.
Mandragola wrote: That landing pad one doesn't really work with the road sections though, does it? I gues you could put it against the road-free edges of the straight and T-junction.
I reckon it'll end up as a 90° bend. The centre of the board edges line up and there is the look of roads on it
Given that they've produced a bunch of boards with roads on, and potentially some landing pads, I think it would be good if they'd make cars, trucks and maybe spaceships. Not so much trains, unless they are going to make train tracks!
It would be quite cool if they made the coffin-like titan drop pod things. those would be a legitimate option for a LoS-blocking terrain piece that you'd come across often in titan battles.
As would trees. Big trees are often as big as a warlord titan. We forget this because in 28mm games we use tiny trees.
Mandragola wrote: Given that they've produced a bunch of boards with roads on, and potentially some landing pads, I think it would be good if they'd make cars, trucks and maybe spaceships. Not so much trains, unless they are going to make train tracks!
It would be quite cool if they made the coffin-like titan drop pod things. those would be a legitimate option for a LoS-blocking terrain piece that you'd come across often in titan battles.
As would trees. Big trees are often as big as a warlord titan. We forget this because in 28mm games we use tiny trees.
Just use the trees you'd normally use for 28mm games. A couple of guys at my club did that for a game instead of urban scenery and it looked great. Just need rules for a titan with a power fist uprooting one to use as a club.
Apparently Titandeath features Rapier class scout Titans (a 3 crew Titan lighter than warhound) and medium sized Titans called the Nightgaunt and Carnivore class.
JWBS wrote: Apparently Titandeath features Rapier class scout Titans (a 3 crew Titan lighter than warhound) and medium sized Titans called the Nightgaunt and Carnivore class.
Yeah, I'm building an Audax maniple, so I'm only about Warhounds right now. But I wonder if their fluff will get a retcon in some future book to allow other scout-class titans like Rapiers. I'm sure they want to sell me more stuff.
With all the talk about the FW resin modular tables, have you guys checked out this? I found it on another thread and am seriously considering it. It would be cool if he actually made one in AT scale with support for the modular buildings though.
This best part is you can do a 4x4 table for under $200. You have to paint it but the roads are about the right scale. I just don't care for the design so much.
I'm betting these articles will be focused on AT. They tend to use 28mm titans in many of the pictures in the rule book and the Titandeath expansion is coming relatively soon I think (my guess is second half of January, early February)
Mendi Warrior wrote: I'm betting these articles will be focused on AT. They tend to use 28mm titans in many of the pictures in the rule book and the Titandeath expansion is coming relatively soon I think (my guess is second half of January, early February)
Do you know any details about the Titandeath expansion? I haven't been able to locate any rumors myself. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated.
I thought I'd have a look at some battle reports. That was not too good! Almost everyone seems to not have read the rule where blast weapons do two hits if centred on their target, with the result that their volcano cannons are half as effective as they ought to be.
I saw one batrep where they got this right, and as a result warlords were going off bang. Mostly the games were just ending with the titans still basically fine.
Mendi Warrior wrote: I'm betting these articles will be focused on AT. They tend to use 28mm titans in many of the pictures in the rule book and the Titandeath expansion is coming relatively soon I think (my guess is second half of January, early February)
Do you know any details about the Titandeath expansion? I haven't been able to locate any rumors myself. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated.
No, besides what was already posted (Beta-Garmon campaign info, list of legios involved, …), I haven't seen anything new, neither fresh info nor rumours. Eagerly awaiting. The Horus Heresy Weekender is taking place on the 2nd and 3rd of February 2019, hence my guess for second half of January, early February to see more, and hopefully get our hands on the new stuff.
Player experience is a big factor, the rules are not complicated, but you still need to play a few games to get them right.
Also the fact that the first battle reports looked all the same, warlords facing off with a few banner of knights, diversity adds a lot to this game, not just in unit choices, but weapon choices as well.
As is the response every time Xenos titans is brought up, not for a very long time.
We haven't seen all of the material discussed before launch yet, we know there are new Titan classes, and then there'll likely be options and upgrades for those too. Plus possibly overtly Chaotic upgrades/kits after that.
Non Imperium based stuff is a long way off. Like years off in all likelihood.
Davespil wrote: Was their any word on when Eldar titans were to be added? I know it wont be soon. That's what I'm waiting on to join AT.
You might be best off starting now with human titans. That way you'll get used to the rules... and be ready when the Elder arrive to break all of them!
So using this image I think Wraithlords and Wraithknights could proxy Eldar titans at AT scale fairly closeish. Which one is the Revenant and the Phantom?
So using this image I think Wraithlords and Wraithknights could proxy Eldar titans at AT scale fairly closeish. Which one is the Revenant and the Phantom?
Phantom is the bigger one.
Also I now have the urge to convert a herd of Bright Stallion knights out of Wraithguard…
midget_overlord wrote: The picture shows a 28mm sized warlord, and they don't mention titanicus, this sounds more like 30k to me, we should find out soon enough.
They have used 28mm titans for pictures in titanicus books and advertising before.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Don't have one to hand to check, but IIRC its between the AT Reaver and Warlord. Wraithguard are about the size of the Knight lancers though.
Cheers for that, I think a purchase might be in order!
Hmm the scale for the Eldar plastic walkers would actually be almost perfect for titans at this scale. War walkers could also be converted into something cool I bet!
SamusDrake wrote: Just thinking about the Wraithlord as a stand-in for an Eldar Titan. Height-wise, what does it compare to in AT?
I like your Reaver. Some red on the carapace wouldn't go amiss though.
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Commander Cain wrote: Hmm the scale for the Eldar plastic walkers would actually be almost perfect for titans at this scale. War walkers could also be converted into something cool I bet!
No I think the WraithKnight is far too big. 1.5x Warlord height at least I'd estimate.
I wonder if that display will fill up as new models get released? Looks like there is a fair bit of space.
Hopefully the new years open day will have something for AT. More info about the Titan Death book and the "missing" weapons for the Reaver and Warlord would be great. I'd love to get something about any new Titans in the pipeline, but its best to keep lowered expectations to avoid disappointment.
I'm mildly upset that Mortis are red / black. It's my favourite scheme, but as you imply, half of all AT minis are painted Mortis (meaning I have to find a different palette for my minis).
Yup, I wanted to do Mortis at the outset only because I like red/black/white (less excited about playing traitors) but after seeing them over and over and over I’ll pass.
I've gone Mortis purely because I seldom do "Codex" schemes, and even if I do I normally play with it to some degree.
Then I spend more time agonizing over colour choices and positioning than I do painting.
So this time I've gone for a popular scheme that's going to be well supported by GW with decals and maybe optional bits, and I'm lifting the individual Titan colour schemes straight from the art in the books.
Least stressful painting project I've done in ages.
I'm doing red and black because that's the scheme I prefer. I'll agree I'm kind of disappointed that's the "popular" colors anyway but, as I'm not a hipster, I dont care if everyone else is already doing it.
With Legio Solaria being the main protagonist's of the Titan Death novel I'm surprised there hasn't been a WHTV tip of the day for there armour. Maybe there will be something in or alongside the AT book? IIRCGW did have a few Warlords painted up in there colours for one of the open days.
GoatboyBeta wrote: With Legio Solaria being the main protagonist's of the Titan Death novel I'm surprised there hasn't been a WHTV tip of the day for there armour. Maybe there will be something in or alongside the AT book? IIRCGW did have a few Warlords painted up in there colours for one of the open days.
They've done a few mottled schemes IIRC eg https://i.imgur.com/us5wUmO.jpg but yeah I vaguely remember a green version (though the one I'm almost / not quite remembering may have been a player / hobbyist paint job)
JWBS wrote: They've done a few mottled schemes IIRC eg https://i.imgur.com/us5wUmO.jpg but yeah I vaguely remember a green version (though the one I'm almost / not quite remembering may have been a player / hobbyist paint job)
Going by there description in the Titan Death novel I think that the purple and red Reaver is from Legio Vulpa. Lovely colours for a nasty Legio
Toofast wrote: I'm doing Mortis as well, because I think red/black/cream is a fantastic color palette for these titans and I like the eye of horus panels for them.
Alright, well I got the last one from my local game store just to be sure, even though I was planning to buy it later.
These 8 sprues plus the ones that came in the GM box will hopefully/probably make enough of these particular buildings to go with other terrain to fill the table.
tneva82 wrote: Would be super thin for my tables. Gm box barely builds one decent building and i need like 10
The scenery is the only thing I was let down with, I am not even sure why they bothered to put any in the GM box, its a struggle to make more than one LOS blocking building.
I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
Necromunda got 4 plastic kits in 2018 correct? If Titanicus goes the same route I bet we will see the new Reaver, a new Warhound (perhaps the lucius variant), another knight, and then a brand new titan model. That would work out to around 4-6 new sprues which seems like a doable amount of new stuff without going too overboard.
Re. terrain, I think GW should make something along the same lines as the Maelstrom's Edge terrain kit, lots of detailed plastic strips that can be fixed to whatever interesting objects you have around the house. The current terrain is nice but you would need piles of the stuff to make a decent sized city...
Commander Cain wrote: I think GW should make something along the same lines as the Maelstrom's Edge terrain kit, lots of detailed plastic strips that can be fixed to whatever interesting objects you have around the house.
Not gonna happen; this is directly contrary to GW’s ethos.
More plausibly, GW could make a kit with some larger pieces in it.
Commander Cain wrote: Necromunda got 4 plastic kits in 2018 correct? If Titanicus goes the same route I bet we will see the new Reaver, a new Warhound (perhaps the lucius variant), another knight, and then a brand new titan model. That would work out to around 4-6 new sprues which seems like a doable amount of new stuff without going too overboard.
The alternate Reaver is probably to come out within a month as it's been shown already. GW said in a recent Twitch thing that Lucius and other alternate armour patterns aren't on their plans as they'd rather use plastic kits for new units, rather than cosmetic variations on existing ones. I think any armour or Warhound variants are going to be resin upgrade packs (ursus claws!). An AT scale Warbringer kit has to be a no brainer, along with some of the other new classes mentioned in the Titandeath novel (definitely written around AT fluff). There's a 'Rapier' scout titan that's smaller than a Warhound and likely a precursor design for the classic Slaanesh Epic models.
We also know they have some unreleased resin terrain in the pipeline, like that train.
SamusDrake wrote: The suspense is killing me. Even if they announce a Titanicus body wash I would lose my sanity with excitement...
“New Oils of the Omnissiah: 69% of the time, they works every time.”
And when they don't, you clearly didn't say the incantation properly. Fast for one week, replace another appendage with a suitable bionic replacement, and start the ritual from the beginning again.
Commander Cain wrote: I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
My guess is that they've got one more set of weapon variants for the Warlord and Reaver in plastic.
...and Titandeath.
After that, I'd say you're correct, it will be a while before the next plastics. However, I suspect FW will keep us occupied with more rare weapon variants in resin.
My crystal ball will be mighty cloudy till I see what direction they take in the new book.
Commander Cain wrote: I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
My guess is that they've got one more set of weapon variants for the Warlord and Reaver in plastic.
...and Titandeath.
After that, I'd say you're correct, it will be a while before the next plastics. However, I suspect FW will keep us occupied with more rare weapon variants in resin.
My crystal ball will be mighty cloudy till I see what direction they take in the new book.
Somebody here or in ATFB forum said that based on his talks with the guys he got impression rest of weapons are coming resin. Which means likely bit pricier.
Hoping knights get more guns sometime. Current 1 of each is very annoying. Want banner of 6 rapid fire and 6 thermal lances? Buy 6 boxes! Something like resin upgrade set with 2 of each I could see. Box+1 of those and you could make 3 with same gun for all 3 weapons(and if this comes I'm going to be kicking myself for not magnetizing my knights...)
AT is already doing pretty well for releases compared to the other SG. That said all three are fairly different beasts in the type of kits they need so its a tough one to predict.
Commander Cain wrote: I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
My guess is that they've got one more set of weapon variants for the Warlord and Reaver in plastic.
They strongly implied in the last Twitch stream that the Warlord / Reaver will get the two plastic weapons sprues we've seen, and the rest will be in resin. Apparently several are already done and just awaiting release.
Commander Cain wrote: I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
My guess is that they've got one more set of weapon variants for the Warlord and Reaver in plastic.
They strongly implied in the last Twitch stream that the Warlord / Reaver will get the two plastic weapons sprues we've seen, and the rest will be in resin. Apparently several are already done and just awaiting release.
See, that kind of news really biles ma pish. Not that they're in resin, that they're already done and they're sitting on them. And will no doubt keep sitting on them, trickling them out one or two at a time over a period of months.
Seriously, they deserve to have their lunch eaten by third parties and 3D printing.
Commander Cain wrote: I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
My guess is that they've got one more set of weapon variants for the Warlord and Reaver in plastic.
They strongly implied in the last Twitch stream that the Warlord / Reaver will get the two plastic weapons sprues we've seen, and the rest will be in resin. Apparently several are already done and just awaiting release.
At this point all the basic reaver weapons are covered. Warlord could use one more plastic set with the lucius head, quake cannon and Gatling blaster arms, and another carapace option.
Reaver will still be missing carapace bolters. But seems no 3rd sprue for warlord. Ah well. I just want the gatling blaster carapace and macro gatling blaster fast!
Seems FW don't make a 28mm Warlord gatling blaster. Does anyone have a pic of an AT warlord with a Contemptor / Redemptor assault cannon? (or just a scale pic of either).
Commander Cain wrote: I wonder how much new stuff we will see for Titanicus this year? It has clearly been a big hit but given the long lead times for plastic kits it could be a while before we see a good chunk of new models.
My guess is that they've got one more set of weapon variants for the Warlord and Reaver in plastic.
They strongly implied in the last Twitch stream that the Warlord / Reaver will get the two plastic weapons sprues we've seen, and the rest will be in resin. Apparently several are already done and just awaiting release.
See, that kind of news really biles ma pish. Not that they're in resin, that they're already done and they're sitting on them. And will no doubt keep sitting on them, trickling them out one or two at a time over a period of months.
Seriously, they deserve to have their lunch eaten by third parties and 3D printing.
"Completed" can mean many things.
The 3D designs might be done but not masters or moulds. Moulds might be done but might be only one and not others. Might be they've got the masters and moulds and all done, but they've not yet put it into a production slot to produce enough to sustain a world wide release. Even just production of enough stock would take time. 3rd parties can often swoop in because whilst they serve an active part of the market, they are often serving a smaller niche and very few are supplying huge numbers of stores (in fact many only just about sell through their own website, ebay and perhaps one or two stores). So they don't have to mass produce enough product in advance of a release.
Also I think GW's intention is to trickle releases out so that they avoid leaving the game with years of nothing. Take AT and Necromunda - if GW really wanted they could have released everything for those games that has been released now over a 2 week period. 2 weeks an the entire range up to now released worldwide. Great if they did that, but at the same time it would likely mean a year or two before they'd be ready for another release or have anything for us.
I think modern GW wants to avoid that. It's better to trickle out products and have something every so often than leave a game "abandoned".
I'd wager each time something new comes out GW makes big sales not just on the new thing, but on all the rest as new people see continual support and decide to invest in the game whilst existing fans are reminded and encouraged to buy. Oh new weapons, I'm going to need a few new titans! Oh new titan I don't like, bleh I'll get those warhounds I've been wanting instead.
By GW schedule by the time they release something the next one is often "ready", does not mean they're ready to hit the shelf or they had to release them right away like it is some kind of emergency. AT already had the fastest release window out of all Specialist games.
I imagine we'll see another kit of Knights soon, as the current kit's carapace has the plug holes for carapace weapons. Perhaps a Warden/Crusader/Errant kit with the current Questoris sprue plus a sprue of carapace weapons and Thunderstrike Gauntlets
MarkNorfolk wrote: I agree. Probably with some head variants and some doubles of the exisiting weapons. It would be interesting if they include the AA cannon.....
Would be cool if the AA cannon got a bonus to hit aircraft _or_ models of scale 8 or larger as they're so big! I imagine a little Knight's AA shooting almost straight up to hit a Warlord that's right in front of it...
"Completed" can mean many things.
The 3D designs might be done but not masters or moulds. Moulds might be done but might be only one and not others. Might be they've got the masters and moulds and all done, but they've not yet put it into a production slot to produce enough to sustain a world wide release. Even just production of enough stock would take time. 3rd parties can often swoop in because whilst they serve an active part of the market, they are often serving a smaller niche and very few are supplying huge numbers of stores (in fact many only just about sell through their own website, ebay and perhaps one or two stores). So they don't have to mass produce enough product in advance of a release.
.
Well these won't be through stores either. Just fw website. And wonder how big stock fw does without automated casting machine. Resin bit different to plastia in that regard
Also I think GW's intention is to trickle releases out so that they avoid leaving the game with years of nothing.
I suspect that this is correct. They need to give the impression that the game is solid, and will continue to be supported. We've already got a massive thread (over a dozen pages) in one of the other sub-forums in which people are insisting that AT is dead. How much worse would it be if we didn't see any new releases until October? With a new item out every month or two, GW and FW can show that the game is being supported.
Of course, the easiest way to show that it's being supported would be to get full-on Ork and Craftworld Eldar releases out. A full rerelease of the Gargants (picking Orks over Eldar since there were more Ork hulls in the old Epic) in the new scale would make it clear that the game is here to stay, as well as completely overturn the existing game dynamics (since introducing the Orks would force a rethink of the meta). But presumably that's still at least a year out, if not longer.
Well, we’ve got one person that started a thread wishing it dead at any rate?
We’re not going to see Xenos stuff for a while yet. There’s still the Cerastus variants to come, missing weapon systems and the Porphyrion to come. And that new Titan that came out for Heresy.
Of course, the easiest way to show that it's being supported would be to get full-on Ork and Craftworld Eldar releases out. A full rerelease of the Gargants .... as well as completely overturn the existing game dynamics
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, we’ve got one person that started a thread wishing it dead at any rate?
We’re not going to see Xenos stuff for a while yet. There’s still the Cerastus variants to come, missing weapon systems and the Porphyrion to come. And that new Titan that came out for Heresy.
And the new Titans mentioned in Titandeath. The team has talked openly about the 'in-between' titans (and special ones like Ordo Sinister), so they're going to happen. My personal health advisory is to avoid holding one's breath waiting for the xenos titans.
Nightgaunts, in the olden days, were a specific Warlord variant, as seen here;
As was the Nemesis of course, as seen here;
So, we have a vague trend by which we might make some educated guesses.
Nightgaunts appear to be lighter in frame. Fewer VSGs, but far, far faster, and specifically noted as being highly manouverable. Now, these ancient, dusty things pre-date Warhound and Reaver rules (and I think their models), so clearly their original niche are now performed elsewhere.
Nemesis were the big boys. Biggest and best dakka. Loads of VSG's. But sloooooooow.
And if we look hyere, it appears the Warbringer Titan is more-or-less a replacement for the Deathbringer variant....(Macro Cannon, two smaller shooty bits)
So, pick the bones out of that and have a good old ponder!
The old warlord types were worked out by barrels. Those (2) next to the lascannon showed the gun had 2 barrels, so 2 shots. The total number of barrels determined what sub-class of Warlord you had, and therefore how fast it was and how many turns it could make. Nightgaunts could have a total of four barrels, any more and they'd be an Eclipse, and so on.
The Eclipse and Nightgaunt were immediately supplanted by the Reaver and Warhound titans, but at least you could have variety with the 6 warlords in the box.
2nd ed standardised all warlords (always 4 weapons) and warlord weapons, and made them properly "titanized". Before then a Warlord Lascannon was identical to a regular lascannon, meaning that a Land Raider could be better armed than a Warlord.
I have a suspicion that Guy Haley was working with early drafts of the background when writing Titan Death. Things regarding Titans other than the original four are kept vague enough that I don't think there will be any direct contradictions with future material. But a couple of things did stand out to me. The colours of the Legio Atarus are described as being "red black and gold" not the bone red and silver of the examples in the AT Warlord instruction sheet(although add in the bone and it does match the Titans on display at WHW). We also now know that a Nemesis Titan is not a distinct class, but a variant type that could potentially be applied to any class of Titan not just the Warbringer.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for more distinct Titan frames. But its possible that some of the "types" mentioned in the book could end up as varient designations instead.
Just to be clear, those sheets are odered Krytos, Solaria, and Vulpa, starting from the upper-left and going clockwise. They are not in the order suggested by the label in the photo.
Information I learned today talking to designers at open day. Again this is just what they said and as we know schedules etc change all the time in this industry
• Titandeath (first AT supplement) will be available in a few weeks time along with the new Reaver and transfers. The weapon packs for the titans will be another couple of weeks after that..
• The Warbringer Titan will make it into AT but not for another 2+ years as they have everything mapped out for that length of time they may do xenos but only if they move timeline to 40k such as beast arises era. If so this is At least 5+ years away. They are looking at chaos titans in current window and FW are probably doing upgrade packs at some point
• Dan Abnett said he's started work on a sequel to his Titanicus book.
Certainly adds another wrinkle to the Warbringer's absence in the Titan Death novel. Possibly it was designed and sculpted during the big delay, when AT was being moved from mostly resin to mostly plastic.
A two year roadmap for releases sounds good. It will be interesting to see units that are sculpted for AT first and are not rescaled from 40k.
Oooft, that's both good and bad news. Good that they're committed to that much development, bad that they're talking about Xenos etc being 5+ years out.
I don't for a moment buy the "AT is boring/lacking variety" argument, it's one of the richest and most engaging games I've played even with "only" Imperial titans...but I'm not sure it can go for five years on just Imperials and a few resin Chaos upgrades. I mean, I'm sure they can trickle out little releases over a five year period, but that won't result in a healthy game if it's all just titans and knights and piddly wee upgrades for those. I mean, I already have a full maniple that only needs some weapon upgrades to finish. I don't imagine most people would want to collect more than two maniple's worth of engines.
I was hoping/expecting we'd see Imperial releases with Chaos addons for the first couple of years, and then they would either expand into a Space Marine-esque system with vehicles and infantry, or start doing Xenos titan & knight equivalents. I really really hope this is just them "managing expectations" rather than what they really intend.
I don’t think the Chaos side is just going to be resin upgrades though. In fact I suspect things like the Banelord will get their own plastic kits if sell-through remains sufficient.
Remember, there are traitor Titans and possessed Titans and pure Chaos Titans built from the ground up with heretical technosorcery in the warp.
Mr_Rose wrote: I don’t think the Chaos side is just going to be resin upgrades though. In fact I suspect things like the Banelord will get their own plastic kits if sell-through remains sufficient.
Remember, there are traitor Titans and possessed Titans and pure Chaos Titans built from the ground up with heretical technosorcery in the warp.
Yes, but they're not particularly widespread until after the Heresy. You start to see "obviously" Chaotic engines around the Siege of Terra, and if they're serious about sticking with the Heresy era for several years then Chaos are either limited to upgrade kits/reboxes with new sprues, or they're going to have to retcon the background, which would be dumb.
Also, even if they did retcon the Heresy or push on into the Scouring, I still don't think they can get away with pushing *only* Imperial and Chaos for as many as five years. There are only so many new engines they can add to the existing Big Four before things start getting ludicrous, only so many upgrade kits people will accept in place of "proper" model releases. If they end up doing three versions of every plastic Titan and Knight and then multiple versions of each for Chaos they could absolutely fill up 20 release slots, but I don't know that enough people would still be buying them after two or three years to justify carrying on.
I'd say they need to mix things up, or at least indicate they intend to start mixing things up soon after, by close of play 2020. Whether that's vehicles & infantry or Xenos factions doesn't matter so much as there being something more on the horizon - personally I'd happily play Red vs Blue Heresy games forever, but I doubt I'm typical, and even if I am that's not great news for them because I have no intention of continuing to buy multiple Titans every year.
You’re also forgetting all of the ‘lost’ ‘rare’ and ‘little-used’ imperial Titan classes they can introduce and chaosify, or dechaosify in the case of the slaaneshi scout Titans…
Though I agree with you regarding mixing things up earlier rather than later.
Adding in some of the non walker super heavy's could be an option. Old Epic had plenty of Imperial units that were on par with Knights or the smaller Titans. And Necromunda already broke the Squat clock
Mr_Rose wrote: I don’t think the Chaos side is just going to be resin upgrades though. In fact I suspect things like the Banelord will get their own plastic kits if sell-through remains sufficient.
Remember, there are traitor Titans and possessed Titans and pure Chaos Titans built from the ground up with heretical technosorcery in the warp.
Yes, but they're not particularly widespread until after the Heresy. You start to see "obviously" Chaotic engines around the Siege of Terra, and if they're serious about sticking with the Heresy era for several years then Chaos are either limited to upgrade kits/reboxes with new sprues, or they're going to have to retcon the background, which would be dumb.
Also, even if they did retcon the Heresy or push on into the Scouring, I still don't think they can get away with pushing *only* Imperial and Chaos for as many as five years. There are only so many new engines they can add to the existing Big Four before things start getting ludicrous, only so many upgrade kits people will accept in place of "proper" model releases. If they end up doing three versions of every plastic Titan and Knight and then multiple versions of each for Chaos they could absolutely fill up 20 release slots, but I don't know that enough people would still be buying them after two or three years to justify carrying on.
I'd say they need to mix things up, or at least indicate they intend to start mixing things up soon after, by close of play 2020. Whether that's vehicles & infantry or Xenos factions doesn't matter so much as there being something more on the horizon - personally I'd happily play Red vs Blue Heresy games forever, but I doubt I'm typical, and even if I am that's not great news for them because I have no intention of continuing to buy multiple Titans every year.
Umm siege of terra is horus heresy so as there were chaos stuff they can bring them just fine. Even banelord was around as per titandeath
GoatboyBeta wrote: Adding in some of the non walker super heavy's could be an option. Old Epic had plenty of Imperial units that were on par with Knights or the smaller Titans. And Necromunda already broke the Squat clock
Don't tease. I really want to fire up the Cyclops, burn through shields and watch the nuclear fire
Though, Ordinatus Majoris would be a nice addition...
Mr_Rose wrote: I don’t think the Chaos side is just going to be resin upgrades though. In fact I suspect things like the Banelord will get their own plastic kits if sell-through remains sufficient.
Remember, there are traitor Titans and possessed Titans and pure Chaos Titans built from the ground up with heretical technosorcery in the warp.
Yes, but they're not particularly widespread until after the Heresy. You start to see "obviously" Chaotic engines around the Siege of Terra, and if they're serious about sticking with the Heresy era for several years then Chaos are either limited to upgrade kits/reboxes with new sprues, or they're going to have to retcon the background, which would be dumb.
Also, even if they did retcon the Heresy or push on into the Scouring, I still don't think they can get away with pushing *only* Imperial and Chaos for as many as five years. There are only so many new engines they can add to the existing Big Four before things start getting ludicrous, only so many upgrade kits people will accept in place of "proper" model releases. If they end up doing three versions of every plastic Titan and Knight and then multiple versions of each for Chaos they could absolutely fill up 20 release slots, but I don't know that enough people would still be buying them after two or three years to justify carrying on.
I'd say they need to mix things up, or at least indicate they intend to start mixing things up soon after, by close of play 2020. Whether that's vehicles & infantry or Xenos factions doesn't matter so much as there being something more on the horizon - personally I'd happily play Red vs Blue Heresy games forever, but I doubt I'm typical, and even if I am that's not great news for them because I have no intention of continuing to buy multiple Titans every year.
Umm siege of terra is horus heresy so as there were chaos stuff they can bring them just fine. Even banelord was around as per titandeath
Right, yes, it's in the Horus Heresy. At, literally, the very very end. So unless they're planning to base everything going forward on the last ~12 months of the entire Heresy, it's still not a great way to introduce Chaos as a complete faction.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Adding in some of the non walker super heavy's could be an option. Old Epic had plenty of Imperial units that were on par with Knights or the smaller Titans. And Necromunda already broke the Squat clock
Don't tease. I really want to fire up the Cyclops, burn through shields and watch the nuclear fire
Though, Ordinatus Majoris would be a nice addition...
Oh yeah, in the style of the new Ordinatus Minoris they would look great.
Since it’s the Heresy though, only Ordinatus Mars, of the named big three, would actually exist and then only just barely. Like, the paint is still wet.
Would be interesting to see some ‘new’ ones…
Mr_Rose wrote: I don’t think the Chaos side is just going to be resin upgrades though. In fact I suspect things like the Banelord will get their own plastic kits if sell-through remains sufficient.
Remember, there are traitor Titans and possessed Titans and pure Chaos Titans built from the ground up with heretical technosorcery in the warp.
Yes, but they're not particularly widespread until after the Heresy. You start to see "obviously" Chaotic engines around the Siege of Terra, and if they're serious about sticking with the Heresy era for several years then Chaos are either limited to upgrade kits/reboxes with new sprues, or they're going to have to retcon the background, which would be dumb.
Also, even if they did retcon the Heresy or push on into the Scouring, I still don't think they can get away with pushing *only* Imperial and Chaos for as many as five years. There are only so many new engines they can add to the existing Big Four before things start getting ludicrous, only so many upgrade kits people will accept in place of "proper" model releases. If they end up doing three versions of every plastic Titan and Knight and then multiple versions of each for Chaos they could absolutely fill up 20 release slots, but I don't know that enough people would still be buying them after two or three years to justify carrying on.
I'd say they need to mix things up, or at least indicate they intend to start mixing things up soon after, by close of play 2020. Whether that's vehicles & infantry or Xenos factions doesn't matter so much as there being something more on the horizon - personally I'd happily play Red vs Blue Heresy games forever, but I doubt I'm typical, and even if I am that's not great news for them because I have no intention of continuing to buy multiple Titans every year.
Umm siege of terra is horus heresy so as there were chaos stuff they can bring them just fine. Even banelord was around as per titandeath
Right, yes, it's in the Horus Heresy. At, literally, the very very end. So unless they're planning to base everything going forward on the last ~12 months of the entire Heresy, it's still not a great way to introduce Chaos as a complete faction.
So? Because it was at the end they can't provide players option to play games on what is bound to be one of the most popular battles to place hh games on? Silly idea. Having supplement called siege of terra doesn't lock their releases elsewhere at all.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Adding in some of the non walker super heavy's could be an option. Old Epic had plenty of Imperial units that were on par with Knights or the smaller Titans. And Necromunda already broke the Squat clock
Don't tease. I really want to fire up the Cyclops, burn through shields and watch the nuclear fire
Though, Ordinatus Majoris would be a nice addition...
Oh yeah, in the style of the new Ordinatus Minoris they would look great.
Since it’s the Heresy though, only Ordinatus Mars, of the named big three, would actually exist and then only just barely. Like, the paint is still wet.
Would be interesting to see some ‘new’ ones…
There was also the tunnelling Ordinatus - mentioned, but no rules or model - and scope to invent more. The three we saw in 2nd edition Epic were never the only big Ordinatus machines
Also, I expect the "Horus Heresy" setting to expand slightly to include the Scouring.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Adding in some of the non walker super heavy's could be an option. Old Epic had plenty of Imperial units that were on par with Knights or the smaller Titans. And Necromunda already broke the Squat clock
Don't tease. I really want to fire up the Cyclops, burn through shields and watch the nuclear fire
Though, Ordinatus Majoris would be a nice addition...
Oh yeah, in the style of the new Ordinatus Minoris they would look great.
Since it’s the Heresy though, only Ordinatus Mars, of the named big three, would actually exist and then only just barely. Like, the paint is still wet.
Would be interesting to see some ‘new’ ones…
There was also the tunnelling Ordinatus - mentioned, but no rules or model - and scope to invent more. The three we saw in 2nd edition Epic were never the only big Ordinatus machines
Also, I expect the "Horus Heresy" setting to expand slightly to include the Scouring.
Oh yeah, that’s all given; I honestly just don’t want them to ‘forget’ and accidentally drop Ordinatus Golgotha on the Beast, or even Ullannor…
And yeah, Ordinatus Priam would be a good one… if the game included infantry. Or regular tanks.
The sprue design is phenomenal; it would be simply a matter of making a new "weapon" sprue for a Warlord to give it the variant bits for a Banelord. Repeat for a generic "chaos" upgrade sprue with old metal-upgrades style chaos heads, whip, combat head, etc, and even little spikes and stuff.
I could see flyers making their way into AT. a cross between Wings of Glory / Xwing movement rules would be great for bombers and fighters weaving through the scenery. one false move and its crash into a building.
I'd also like to see marine legion aircraft like transport stormbirds attacking with meta boarding actions etc. where a stormbird has to stay stationary for a turn (land) within X inch of titan to instigate a boarding attack.
there's lots of great stuff that could be done without having to go to Xenos factions or moving outside of the HH era.
Titandeath is the first-ever expansion for Adeptus Titanicus: The Horus Heresy, and delves into the largest engine war of the Heresy. It includes rules, traits and more for no fewer than eight different Titan Legions, as well as an in-depth campaign system, new maniples, six narrative missions and rules for fighting in hostile environments such as airless moons.
Joining Titandeath is a new variant of the Reaver Titan, boasting alternative weapons – a melta cannon, volcano cannon, chainfist and carapace-mounted turbo laser destructor, perfect for building a Reaver that’s a dedicated Titan hunter capable of taking down even a mighty Warlord. There are also new heads to add variety to your God-Machines.
And speaking of weapons, the Warlord Titan Plasma Annihilator Frame will allow you to customise your existing Warlords with plasma annihilators, laser blasters and the vicious Arioch Titan power claw. You asked to be able to buy this sprue separately – and now you can! All the weapons are designed to be magnetised, making it easy switch them out across your games.
Finally, three new transfer sheets add loads of new iconography for your Titans. Each sheet focuses on a different Titan Legion – Vulpa, Krytos & Solaria – plus their associated Knight House. These make adding detail to your Titans and Knights simple and give you all sorts of cool new imagery options for all your war engines.
changemod wrote: Somehow titandeath doesn’t sound very exciting to me. It mostly sounds like content that should have been in the core book in the first place.
I’ll get a copy, but I guess this is kinda symptomatic of a single-faction game.
Gw wouldn't release supplement people say game is dead. Gw puts out and people say it should have been in rulebook. Can't win.
Also multifaction would make it worse. Just look at 40k where you have to buy codex and 1+ supplement of which you can't use everything. Orks just got codex and now have to pay 40e for supplement that has only little ork specific stuff. Rest useless if you don't play other armies. And moie supplements coming later.
At least regardless of your faction you can use most of titandeath rules. Better than 40k
I wonder how much for the warlord weapon sprue on it's own?
Probably about...£25?
As they'll be direct only and have no discount, at that price I may as well pick up a full Warlord with that sprue for £49 and effectively pay £24 for an extra titan.
I wonder how much for the warlord weapon sprue on it's own?
Probably about...£25?
As they'll be direct only and have no discount, at that price I may as well pick up a full Warlord with that sprue for £49 and effectively pay £24 for an extra titan.
Hopefully it's a more reasonable ~£20
Thing is that way your titan won\t have all the weapons. Only 1 sprue of them. That's what keeps me from buying sunfury warlord and the new reaver. I want all weapons. Buying full kits means I have bunch of weaponless titans running around then.
Thing is that way your titan won\t have all the weapons. Only 1 sprue of them. That's what keeps me from buying sunfury warlord and the new reaver. I want all weapons. Buying full kits means I have bunch of weaponless titans running around then.
I'll be getting other weapons later on when they release the resin ones. Failing that a wrecked titan body could make a couple of really good objective markers...
Thing is that way your titan won\t have all the weapons. Only 1 sprue of them. That's what keeps me from buying sunfury warlord and the new reaver. I want all weapons. Buying full kits means I have bunch of weaponless titans running around then.
I'll be getting other weapons later on when they release the resin ones. Failing that a wrecked titan body could make a couple of really good objective markers...
That will still leave you some very useful weapons off. In particular apoc missile launcher from both is very good weapon. As is laser blaster from standard reaver. Laser blaster for warlord is in particularly niche weapon so I would hate to have only that for carapace. It's shorter ranged, inferior vs apoc launchers even when you don't get -1 to hit AND push your reactor for shieldbane. And it has very narrow range band where you are most effective(more than 10", max 16". LEss than 10" and you can only shoot vs other warlords) and is more expensive. Pays quite a lot for better performance vs unshielded(and it's not like apoc is useless there either).
And if you think plastic sprue is too expensive how you expect resin be any cheaper?-)
I just realised that the release date means the HH weekender is the week after Titan Death hits the shelves. Time to start building up those expectations for info on future releases
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Rules wise, I’m still hoping we don’t get stuck with matched Carapace Weapons for Warlords.
It ain’t right I tells ya!
Um hopefully you realize to change that they would need to release new bigger command terminals? Care to pay the 20e/5 for that? Actually as they would be bigger than current warlord terminals more than that likely.
And laser blasters would then have to use 2 reactor push to get both shield bane activated.
changemod wrote: Somehow titandeath doesn’t sound very exciting to me. It mostly sounds like content that should have been in the core book in the first place.
I’ll get a copy, but I guess this is kinda symptomatic of a single-faction game.
Gw wouldn't release supplement people say game is dead. Gw puts out and people say it should have been in rulebook. Can't win.
Also multifaction would make it worse. Just look at 40k where you have to buy codex and 1+ supplement of which you can't use everything. Orks just got codex and now have to pay 40e for supplement that has only little ork specific stuff. Rest useless if you don't play other armies. And moie supplements coming later.
At least regardless of your faction you can use most of titandeath rules. Better than 40k
I was ready to say Nay, but...
When one looks at the core AT rule set( without having flicked through it ) not only is the book hardcover but also includes dice, templates, card decks and a rather generous plastic sprue full of goodies. £35 for all that compared to a single hardcover rule book for 40K or AOS...yes, one can cut GW slack for not having everything in the core AT rulebook...
As far as xenos in AT...I don't see that happening now, but I wouldn't be surprised if a second 8mm game will appear in the next few years. A tanks'n'aircraft game would be an ideal follow up to AT...
I wonder how much for the warlord weapon sprue on it's own?
Probably about...£25?
As they'll be direct only and have no discount, at that price I may as well pick up a full Warlord with that sprue for £49 and effectively pay £24 for an extra titan.
Hopefully it's a more reasonable ~£20
If you can get a Warlord for £49 I'd still go with that even if the weapon sprue is 'only' £20!
GW's wonky "exchange rate" makes Warlords more expensive than they really should be here in the USA...
If you can get a Warlord for £49 I'd still go with that even if the weapon sprue is 'only' £20!
GW's wonky "exchange rate" makes Warlords more expensive than they really should be here in the USA...
Well, its hard to say, but here is my reasoning...
£65 / 3 sprues = £21.66
...but on its own you lose a little on packaging...so roughly £25. I don't have any plans to buy Warlords but I sure hope its a straight £20 for those who do, as that would be awesome. Only problem is, that sprue seems larger than a AT Knight sprue and those are £20. On top of that, GW would rather you purchase another Warlord instead...
Saying that, GW has surprised me in the past. When trying to guess the price of the Reaver, I had thought £40-£45, but it came in at £35. Then I guessed the Warhounds at £35( same amount of sprues as the Reaver ) but they were announced at £45( thankfully changed to £40 at the last moment! ).
Heh, I've got a Reaver coming in the post, and I'm hoping the weapon sprue( using the same formula! ) will be about...£15.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: You have missed all the calculations that take the warlord titan and compare it to it's size in fluff which shows it's pretty much spot on 6mm.
There! And who said maths can't be fun!
"Last year, we gave you Adeptus Titanicus...this year...we proudly present its successor...ADEPTUS CALCULUS!"
All the other plastic kits from Specialist Games have been on sale on the GW website, and available to be delivered to GW stores; it's only resin models and parts that are only sold through Forge World. They won't be stocked on shelves though.
The book is cheaper than I thought, was honestly expecting £30+
Guess I'll wait until Friday night to see the sprue price. Then decide if it's worth buying the full titans at 25% discount, or ordering the Warlord sprue direct and waiting for the Reaver.
Was expecting £25 for Titandeath, so that's a pleasing price. Spesh as I'll likely be ordering through Darksphere (if my local store doesn't stock, my sale goes elsewhere for the saving)
I hope (?) that's the price for the Reaver with the new options, and not the price of the plasma sprue for the Warlord titan!
Info comes from retailers. They don\t sell sprues. Ergo that price is not the sprue. Meanwhile you can see it's same price as reaver 1. It's reaver's price.
I hope (?) that's the price for the Reaver with the new options, and not the price of the plasma sprue for the Warlord titan!
Info comes from retailers. They don\t sell sprues. Ergo that price is not the sprue. Meanwhile you can see it's same price as reaver 1. It's reaver's price.
Yes, right. Of course.
But when it is called a "Plasma Reaver", well, confusion follows!
All cleared up now - except for the price of the Plasma Warlord Sprue!
I hope the Mortis rules are good, i'm kinda worried they will solely buff warlords and then my two warhounds will be less than optimal. It's too late for me to change legio. I know scout titans in Mortis were rare but they did have some....
It looks OK, except that stupid weather table. The acid fog and lightning effects are backwards; giant metal machines, especially ones touching the ground, are basically immune to lightning, military ones especially. No-one, not even the Mechanicus, is dumb enough to build a giant lightning rod without an actual lightning rod. Massive, broad spectrum energy bursts fetching sensors though, that’s a thing.
Same with clouds of acid; nothing about that should block even half the sensors available to a Titan, but exposed metal is gonna have a bad time…
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do for the campaign game. I always liked the Mighty Empires hex system (and the 40K variant) for both the game and hobby opportunities it afforded me.
Mr_Rose wrote: The acid fog and lightning effects are backwards; giant metal machines, especially ones touching the ground, are basically immune to lightning, military ones especially. No-one, not even the Mechanicus, is dumb enough to build a giant lightning rod without an actual lightning rod. Massive, broad spectrum energy bursts fetching sensors though, that’s a thing.
Mr_Rose wrote: The acid fog and lightning effects are backwards; giant metal machines, especially ones touching the ground, are basically immune to lightning, military ones especially. No-one, not even the Mechanicus, is dumb enough to build a giant lightning rod without an actual lightning rod. Massive, broad spectrum energy bursts fetching sensors though, that’s a thing.
Agreed...does seem a bit odd...
Well. We are talking about giant machines that apparantely don't have this technological marvel called "range finder" that's old tech even by our standards.
This isn't normal lightning like what we get on Earth, this is GrimDark lightning on alien worlds where the properties of the planet make such bolts of power FAR in excess of anything we see on mundane, safe Terra.
We are talking bolts of energy the like of which we might only dream of; of which the gods of old threw in the days when worlds were formed. Sheer white bright light that blazes up into the skies with a roaring thunder heard half a world away.
Not some little white streaks that you can only hear a few miles off....
Also we are talking about a civilization who builds complex cyborgs which have purposes like "Turn screw 34 on panel 3 of Lemon Russ tank" as their sole purpose! A perfect blending of machine and human reduced to performing a mundane task that we'd consider the cheapest of automation to achieve.
So yeah I can see them building a vast skyscraping titan that hasn't got a basic lightning rod built in. If it wasn't on the original design specification or that page was lost they'd certainly not corrupt the purity of the Titan God by changing the design!
They do have range fiunders. Unfortunately they also have radar jammers, stealth equipment (seriously - you used to be able to fit an entire titan with cameleoline), ECM and ECCM and the battlefield will be covered in smoke, dust, erratic lighting and more. "no premeasuring" is as good a way of simulating that as trying to build all those effects explicitly into the rules.
(I suppose you could make movement and weapon ranges a number of dice rather than a fixed value, but I don't think you lot would like that either!)
AndrewGPaul wrote: They do have range fiunders. Unfortunately they also have radar jammers, stealth equipment (seriously - you used to be able to fit an entire titan with cameleoline), ECM and ECCM and the battlefield will be covered in smoke, dust, erratic lighting and more. "no premeasuring" is as good a way of simulating that as trying to build all those effects explicitly into the rules.
(I suppose you could make movement and weapon ranges a number of dice rather than a fixed value, but I don't think you lot would like that either!)
And all you archieve is confuse newbies. Any veteran meanwhile will use known terrain sizes, board section sizes, his hand placed in convenient location(need 6" distance? Well I just have my hand nearby...Instant tell) plus basic algerbra. Might just as well be measured flat out for all the effect it does. You get to premeasure at will without taking up measure tape. It's artificial "skill" introducting without actually being real skill.
Stupid, illogical, unfluffy and even rules author was set against it but bean counters overrode him.
Mr_Rose wrote: It looks OK, except that stupid weather table. The acid fog and lightning effects are backwards; giant metal machines, especially ones touching the ground, are basically immune to lightning, military ones especially. No-one, not even the Mechanicus, is dumb enough to build a giant lightning rod without an actual lightning rod. Massive, broad spectrum energy bursts fetching sensors though, that’s a thing.
Same with clouds of acid; nothing about that should block even half the sensors available to a Titan, but exposed metal is gonna have a bad time…
It just ruins the whole plausibility of fictional robots shooting fictional weapons on fictional planets.
Mr_Rose wrote: It looks OK, except that stupid weather table. The acid fog and lightning effects are backwards; giant metal machines, especially ones touching the ground, are basically immune to lightning, military ones especially. No-one, not even the Mechanicus, is dumb enough to build a giant lightning rod without an actual lightning rod. Massive, broad spectrum energy bursts fetching sensors though, that’s a thing.
Same with clouds of acid; nothing about that should block even half the sensors available to a Titan, but exposed metal is gonna have a bad time…
It just ruins the whole plausibility of fictional robots shooting fictional weapons on fictional planets.
I dont get this argument, we are talking about a game which takes place all over the galaxy and beyond, on planets with all sorts of different weather systems.
Why would the weather be the same as the weather on earth ?
Might as well complain about why building would prevent the titan from moving or shooting through it at all, they have radar and even if they don't, they could have smaller unit like knight spot the thing and signal the location to them.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I can't think of any new players "confused" by that rule at all. Even seven-year-old kids managed it.
re. "bean counters"; I don't understand - can you explain how not allowing pre-measuring leads to an increase in profits?
Not confused by rule but newbies are only ones affected by it. Veterans know more than enough tricks that they might just as well premeasure. That buildilng is 4" wide, tiles 24" long with edges visible, i have my 6" long hand at convenient spot, bit elementary school math and you have distance within inch.
Rule is decades old. Always fail. Unsurprisingly quality games abandon it. It gives illusion of skill in favour of real skill.
Dunno how it leads but fact is author didn#t want the rule but got overridden.
Personally, I'd point out those tricks to my opponent too, if he was new. Estimation is a real skill. Whether it's one you want in a game is a different matter.
Without it, I think the game would bog down. I've experienced that in Warmachine and Infinity, and in boardgames using grids for movement - measuring one move, then another, back to the first, then what about that one instead? YMMV, but that makes a worse game IMO. And as regard cheating, there's the guy who picks up a model, measures a move, changes their mind, puts it back - but in a slightly different place to their advantage.
To be honest, it's such a trivial thing to ignore if you don't like it I don't know why I've bothered wasting so many words typing these posts.
To everyone miffed about how weather could affect anything in the game or "why they don't have radars lol":
1) Have you ever checked how vulnerable our current systems are to changing conditions? Our satellites can be swept away in an instant if the Sun decides to have a bad day (thus space weather forecasting is a big deal), material physics labs all around the globe are working all the time to mitigate the effects of particle bombardment (like you have in space) on intricate systems, normal clouds can accidentally block or bounce things like radio waves or GPS signals, acidic rain can and does hurt measuring equipment, lightning rods are not necessarily perfectly positioned in a barn (or Emperor forbid, in a huge walker of doom that is usually constantly under artillery fire) and might short into something unintended...
2) Jamming and counter-intel is a thing. In the Titandeath novel there is a funny remark from one of the main characters about how predictable it is that engagements start with a huge lash of electrical warring in the communications, which is often quickly squashed, but "just has to happen" almost as a greeting when opening hostilities.
3) It's weird scifi with magitech, where you can have lots of awesome effects like that. Also in Titandeath, there is one fight scene in the void of space where there are also giant factory towers that produce utterly wonky magnetic fields that make the area look utterly black in some wavelengths that the titans could see, but the princeps could still go on by using their human eyes.
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
5) Anything that has to do with military history mostly consists of listing how things went wrong. Putting interesting conditions like bad scifi weather that makes things go wrong in there (without making the game too random) is good for producing such war stories.
tneva82 wrote: It's artificial "skill" introducting without actually being real skill.
Stupid, illogical, unfluffy and even rules author was set against it but bean counters overrode him.
I agree with you 100% here. Range finders for golf were invented in 1955! Yet somehow in the year 32,000 we haven't managed to replicate that technology yet. We have titans the size of skyscrapers, laser weapons, plasma weapons, directed energy weapons, force fields, and all manner of other technologically advanced toys, but we have to blindly fire our weapons and hope our target is in range of them? It makes no sense at all. It doesn't make sense from a fluff perspective and it's a stupid rule that does nothing to add any tactics to the game.
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
That would make them a strategic consideration then wouldn't it?
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
The preview of Toxic Storm does three things:
1) Reduce available range to 3d10 inches. With three dice you get a pretty reliable bell curve around 16,5" and know that firing over 30" isn't possible. That sounds like something one can and should plan for, no? Expect to go close and be unavailable to use your long range support. Does not sound like random for random's sake.
2) Add one to all damage taken. Where's the random there? You have to take that into account from the word go and can use that tactically, for an example to gain more bang from your smaller weapons that fire lots of rounds. Just a tactical consideration there.
3) Random lightning. That's proper random, yes, but it happens all day long for both sides and most likely averages out on, say, 30 tries that you might throw in a normal Confrontation sized game. It can skew, sure, but it is also fairly dangerous for both sides and in what world is it not a tactical consideration to keep in mind that your engines MAY take a hit in the beginning of the turn? That encourages you to keep your own shields up to not take that possibility and to shred your opponent's shields even if you might not have the normal dakka to capitalize on it immediately because there is a chance that nature does it for you. Heck, that is exactly what outsmarting someone in many real and fictive stories is about: taking advantage of the fictional positioning to do something more than one might be expected to.
Also, you don't have to use them if you don't like them. I do. I will. You do you.
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
That would make them a strategic consideration then wouldn't it?
I don't care what they are, as long as they affect both players equally and consistently.
AndrewGPaul wrote: They do have range fiunders. Unfortunately they also have radar jammers, stealth equipment (seriously - you used to be able to fit an entire titan with cameleoline), ECM and ECCM and the battlefield will be covered in smoke, dust, erratic lighting and more. "no premeasuring" is as good a way of simulating that as trying to build all those effects explicitly into the rules.
(I suppose you could make movement and weapon ranges a number of dice rather than a fixed value, but I don't think you lot would like that either!)
And all you archieve is confuse newbies. Any veteran meanwhile will use known terrain sizes, board section sizes, his hand placed in convenient location(need 6" distance? Well I just have my hand nearby...Instant tell) plus basic algerbra. Might just as well be measured flat out for all the effect it does. You get to premeasure at will without taking up measure tape. It's artificial "skill" introducting without actually being real skill.
Stupid, illogical, unfluffy and even rules author was set against it but bean counters overrode him.
So, as per, all the objections to this come down to "Players with lots of experience shouldn't have an advantage over new players" and "Some people might cheat, so it's bad". Neither of which is a reasonable argument, since a requirement to get better at the game over time is something most people want from strategy systems, and "people might cheat" can be applied to any mechanic you like, including dice. Should GW games stop using dice? Yeah
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
The preview of Toxic Storm does three things:
1) Reduce available range to 3d10 inches. With three dice you get a pretty reliable bell curve around 16,5" and know that firing over 30" isn't possible. That sounds like something one can and should plan for, no? Expect to go close and be unavailable to use your long range support. Does not sound like random for random's sake.
2) Add one to all damage taken. Where's the random there? You have to take that into account from the word go and can use that tactically, for an example to gain more bang from your smaller weapons that fire lots of rounds. Just a tactical consideration there.
3) Random lightning. That's proper random, yes, but it happens all day long for both sides and most likely averages out on, say, 30 tries that you might throw in a normal Confrontation sized game. It can skew, sure, but it is also fairly dangerous for both sides and in what world is it not a tactical consideration to keep in mind that your engines MAY take a hit in the beginning of the turn? That encourages you to keep your own shields up to not take that possibility and to shred your opponent's shields even if you might not have the normal dakka to capitalize on it immediately because there is a chance that nature does it for you. Heck, that is exactly what outsmarting someone in many real and fictive stories is about: taking advantage of the fictional positioning to do something more than one might be expected to.
Also, you don't have to use them if you don't like them. I do. I will. You do you.
This is the one I was taking particular issue with, as one could have inferred. It's just such typical GW Jervis bs that had hitherto largely seemed to have passed this game system by. It's also the sort of thing that appears in every game system they produce and could practically been cut and pasted from an AOS or 40K rule book, so on top of it being nonsense in-game it's also lazy, recycled, nonsense. The "averages out" argument is technically true, but average rolls don't equal average effects. I may roll a statistically average number of sixes, but if they happen all together over one or two turns and bork my Warlord, that's an uneven effect from average probability.
It's the worst sort of rule writing and it's something you only really see in GW games. It removes player agency with no means of mitigation, and I will have an issue with that in any game.
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
The preview of Toxic Storm does three things:
1) Reduce available range to 3d10 inches. With three dice you get a pretty reliable bell curve around 16,5" and know that firing over 30" isn't possible. That sounds like something one can and should plan for, no? Expect to go close and be unavailable to use your long range support. Does not sound like random for random's sake.
2) Add one to all damage taken. Where's the random there? You have to take that into account from the word go and can use that tactically, for an example to gain more bang from your smaller weapons that fire lots of rounds. Just a tactical consideration there.
3) Random lightning. That's proper random, yes, but it happens all day long for both sides and most likely averages out on, say, 30 tries that you might throw in a normal Confrontation sized game. It can skew, sure, but it is also fairly dangerous for both sides and in what world is it not a tactical consideration to keep in mind that your engines MAY take a hit in the beginning of the turn? That encourages you to keep your own shields up to not take that possibility and to shred your opponent's shields even if you might not have the normal dakka to capitalize on it immediately because there is a chance that nature does it for you. Heck, that is exactly what outsmarting someone in many real and fictive stories is about: taking advantage of the fictional positioning to do something more than one might be expected to.
Also, you don't have to use them if you don't like them. I do. I will. You do you.
This is the one I was taking particular issue with, as one could have inferred. It's just such typical GW Jervis bs that had hitherto largely seemed to have passed this game system by. It's also the sort of thing that appears in every game system they produce and could practically been cut and pasted from an AOS or 40K rule book, so on top of it being nonsense in-game it's also lazy, recycled, nonsense. The "averages out" argument is technically true, but average rolls don't equal average effects. I may roll a statistically average number of sixes, but if they happen all together over one or two turns and bork my Warlord, that's an uneven effect from average probability.
It's the worst sort of rule writing and it's something you only really see in GW games. It removes player agency with no means of mitigation, and I will have an issue with that in any game.
I normally firmly agree with you on this issue, but in this case I think it's pretty harmless. It's not part of army construction. It's not part of core rules. It's not part of basic scenarios. It's part of some optional rules from a supplementary book and it's actually representing something that would likely be pretty random in its effects. This isn't rolling for warlord traits, or getting sucked into a multi-random table of dice rolls for a weapon profile or special rule, or having basic terrain that will randomly decide to eat one of your units.
This kind of thing is only a problem when its commonplace and non-optional, this rule meets neither criteria and so is fine IMO. Like the man said; don't like it, don't use it.
OMG, those lightning attack rules remind me of that ion-storm mission in Command & Conquer 2: Tiberian Sun. Damn thing kept wiping out my Wolverines! Grrrrr!
The weather rules sound interesting and so long as they favour neither side...it adds to the drama. If they are that objectionable then future expansions or White Dwarf might revise them...
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
The preview of Toxic Storm does three things:
1) Reduce available range to 3d10 inches. With three dice you get a pretty reliable bell curve around 16,5" and know that firing over 30" isn't possible. That sounds like something one can and should plan for, no? Expect to go close and be unavailable to use your long range support. Does not sound like random for random's sake.
2) Add one to all damage taken. Where's the random there? You have to take that into account from the word go and can use that tactically, for an example to gain more bang from your smaller weapons that fire lots of rounds. Just a tactical consideration there.
3) Random lightning. That's proper random, yes, but it happens all day long for both sides and most likely averages out on, say, 30 tries that you might throw in a normal Confrontation sized game. It can skew, sure, but it is also fairly dangerous for both sides and in what world is it not a tactical consideration to keep in mind that your engines MAY take a hit in the beginning of the turn? That encourages you to keep your own shields up to not take that possibility and to shred your opponent's shields even if you might not have the normal dakka to capitalize on it immediately because there is a chance that nature does it for you. Heck, that is exactly what outsmarting someone in many real and fictive stories is about: taking advantage of the fictional positioning to do something more than one might be expected to.
Also, you don't have to use them if you don't like them. I do. I will. You do you.
This is the one I was taking particular issue with, as one could have inferred. It's just such typical GW Jervis bs that had hitherto largely seemed to have passed this game system by. It's also the sort of thing that appears in every game system they produce and could practically been cut and pasted from an AOS or 40K rule book, so on top of it being nonsense in-game it's also lazy, recycled, nonsense. The "averages out" argument is technically true, but average rolls don't equal average effects. I may roll a statistically average number of sixes, but if they happen all together over one or two turns and bork my Warlord, that's an uneven effect from average probability.
It's the worst sort of rule writing and it's something you only really see in GW games. It removes player agency with no means of mitigation, and I will have an issue with that in any game.
I normally firmly agree with you on this issue, but in this case I think it's pretty harmless. It's not part of army construction. It's not part of core rules. It's not part of basic scenarios. It's part of some optional rules from a supplementary book and it's actually representing something that would likely be pretty random in its effects. This isn't rolling for warlord traits, or getting sucked into a multi-random table of dice rolls for a weapon profile or special rule, or having basic terrain that will randomly decide to eat one of your units.
This kind of thing is only a problem when its commonplace and non-optional, this rule meets neither criteria and so is fine IMO. Like the man said; don't like it, don't use it.
Oh, if it were being put forward as an element of the core game my ire would be far stronger. But it is still representative of gak rules writing the GW seems determined to perpetuate and I'm disappointed to see it.
AndrewGPaul wrote: They do have range fiunders. Unfortunately they also have radar jammers, stealth equipment (seriously - you used to be able to fit an entire titan with cameleoline), ECM and ECCM and the battlefield will be covered in smoke, dust, erratic lighting and more. "no premeasuring" is as good a way of simulating that as trying to build all those effects explicitly into the rules.
(I suppose you could make movement and weapon ranges a number of dice rather than a fixed value, but I don't think you lot would like that either!)
And all you archieve is confuse newbies. Any veteran meanwhile will use known terrain sizes, board section sizes, his hand placed in convenient location(need 6" distance? Well I just have my hand nearby...Instant tell) plus basic algerbra. Might just as well be measured flat out for all the effect it does. You get to premeasure at will without taking up measure tape. It's artificial "skill" introducting without actually being real skill.
Stupid, illogical, unfluffy and even rules author was set against it but bean counters overrode him.
So, as per, all the objections to this come down to "Players with lots of experience shouldn't have an advantage over new players" and "Some people might cheat, so it's bad". Neither of which is a reasonable argument, since a requirement to get better at the game over time is something most people want from strategy systems, and "people might cheat" can be applied to any mechanic you like, including dice. Should GW games stop using dice? Yeah
Except that's not real skill. And no cheating whatsoever so your "some player might cheat so it's bad". Who's saying anything about cheating? I'm not. It's legal so it's not cheating. If you have issue with somebody doing those tricks it's your problem.
It's not even like this is NEW idea. It's old. Decades old. And shown to be bad IN PRACTICE. There's reason why the author of the game was dead set against it.
AndrewGPaul wrote: They do have range fiunders. Unfortunately they also have radar jammers, stealth equipment (seriously - you used to be able to fit an entire titan with cameleoline), ECM and ECCM and the battlefield will be covered in smoke, dust, erratic lighting and more. "no premeasuring" is as good a way of simulating that as trying to build all those effects explicitly into the rules.
(I suppose you could make movement and weapon ranges a number of dice rather than a fixed value, but I don't think you lot would like that either!)
And all you archieve is confuse newbies. Any veteran meanwhile will use known terrain sizes, board section sizes, his hand placed in convenient location(need 6" distance? Well I just have my hand nearby...Instant tell) plus basic algerbra. Might just as well be measured flat out for all the effect it does. You get to premeasure at will without taking up measure tape. It's artificial "skill" introducting without actually being real skill.
Stupid, illogical, unfluffy and even rules author was set against it but bean counters overrode him.
So, as per, all the objections to this come down to "Players with lots of experience shouldn't have an advantage over new players" and "Some people might cheat, so it's bad". Neither of which is a reasonable argument, since a requirement to get better at the game over time is something most people want from strategy systems, and "people might cheat" can be applied to any mechanic you like, including dice. Should GW games stop using dice? Yeah
Except that's not real skill. And no cheating whatsoever so your "some player might cheat so it's bad". Who's saying anything about cheating? I'm not. It's legal so it's not cheating. If you have issue with somebody doing those tricks it's your problem.
It's not even like this is NEW idea. It's old. Decades old. And shown to be bad IN PRACTICE. There's reason why the author of the game was dead set against it.
The author of the game is not god. New != better. Plenty of people think it's a brilliant mechanic, as evidenced by the multiple people arguing the point with you.
And if that's not real skill then what the hell is by your daft standards? Learning how to estimate distances using the information available on the tabletop without having to measure it is the very definition of a skill; something most people don't begin with inherently but can develop over time by applying themselves. As for cheating, this has been explained already but evidently needs to be said again; estimation means no measuring, just working with the information the tabletop gives you. Leaning over the table and planting your arm, or your hand, or your rulebook, or any other random object or appendage that you've pre-measured in order to determine the distance is, by definition, measuring and also using information that's not part of the tabletop, ergo it is cheating. So if that happens to you all the time, find better people to play with.
And if that's not real skill then what the hell is by your daft standards? Learning how to estimate distances using the information available on the tabletop without having to measure it is the very definition of a skill; something most people don't begin with inherently but can develop over time by applying themselves. As for cheating, this has been explained already but evidently needs to be said again; estimation means no measuring, just working with the information the tabletop gives you. Leaning over the table and planting your arm, or your hand, or your rulebook, or any other random object or appendage that you've pre-measured in order to determine the distance is, by definition, measuring and also using information that's not part of the tabletop, ergo it is cheating. So if that happens to you all the time, find better people to play with.
No premeasuring is also not new rule and provenly by many games to be superior...
All those tricks makes all estimates as pointless. Why estimate when you can easily without effort find it. And you cry foul on cheating, everybody will do it without anybody being able to prove it. Rule that is enforceable only by god himself coming to judge is not good rule. You cannot prove it. Everybody does it except newbies in their first few games. Nobody does something obvious like plant hand nearby for long time. More like you do it when you move hand around say moving your models or picking up dice. Takes like microseconds...Good luck proving you premeasured that! You'll get laughed out for sheer sillyness.
It's been proven to not work. Opposite is also proven to work. No premeasure rule is already ancient rule. Premeasuring is also old rule so saying "new!=better" is false. Neither is new. Both are proven veterans. Only one of them is proven as good though...
It's not real skill. It's not even difficult. Anybody who has played at all can do it within inch. And calling it cheating makes you just a crying without evidence. Good luck proving it. You need the literal christian god from bible to come to judge to do it. Good luck with that...
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
That would make them a strategic consideration then wouldn't it?
I don't care what they are, as long as they affect both players equally and consistently.
By that standard, why you're even rolling dice at all, instead of replacing them with some sort of averages or random seed table? What if you roll 1 and your opponent rolls 6? That's, like, the exact opposite of 'affecting both players equally and consistently'
And if that's not real skill then what the hell is by your daft standards? Learning how to estimate distances using the information available on the tabletop without having to measure it is the very definition of a skill; something most people don't begin with inherently but can develop over time by applying themselves. As for cheating, this has been explained already but evidently needs to be said again; estimation means no measuring, just working with the information the tabletop gives you. Leaning over the table and planting your arm, or your hand, or your rulebook, or any other random object or appendage that you've pre-measured in order to determine the distance is, by definition, measuring and also using information that's not part of the tabletop, ergo it is cheating. So if that happens to you all the time, find better people to play with.
No premeasuring is also not new rule and provenly by many games to be superior...
All those tricks makes all estimates as pointless. Why estimate when you can easily without effort find it. And you cry foul on cheating, everybody will do it without anybody being able to prove it. Rule that is enforceable only by god himself coming to judge is not good rule. You cannot prove it. Everybody does it except newbies in their first few games. Nobody does something obvious like plant hand nearby for long time. More like you do it when you move hand around say moving your models or picking up dice. Takes like microseconds...Good luck proving you premeasured that! You'll get laughed out for sheer sillyness.
It's been proven to not work. Opposite is also proven to work. No premeasure rule is already ancient rule. Premeasuring is also old rule so saying "new!=better" is false. Neither is new. Both are proven veterans. Only one of them is proven as good though...
It's not real skill. It's not even difficult. Anybody who has played at all can do it within inch. And calling it cheating makes you just a crying without evidence. Good luck proving it. You need the literal christian god from bible to come to judge to do it. Good luck with that...
See, all these things you keep saying are opinions, not facts, no matter how emphatically you state them.
None of the people I play with do any "tricks" like you mentioned, because they're not cheating arseholes. Just like nobody I play with(or would play with) brings loaded dice to games, or deliberately "mismeasures" while moving stuff, or any of the countless other "tricks" that can be done while playing a wargame in a way that is impossible to actually definitively prove but for some reason don't irrevocably taint the game mechanic they're associated with Plenty of the people I play with and elsewhere online disagree that premeasuring has been proven superior, because we prefer the alternative.
You do grasp that you're allowed to prefer something without having to engage in these farcical gymnastics trying to justify that opinion as somehow objectively true, right?
AT is ultimately a game of manouvering, rather than shooting. So blind ranges adds to that. It's very much part of the game's challenge.
And like all other aspects of the game, there are ways and means to help get your eye in that much quicker. Such as trigonometry, and know the dimensions of the board. Is that cheating? No, because all that information is equally available to both parties. That one might be better at it is an advantage - not an unfair one.
Consider X-Wing and Armada. So far as I'm aware, they don't allow pre-measuring of any kind. You have to eye ball it.
4) It's a game. Tactical considerations like that are good for the game.
Except when they're not tactical considerations but random things happening randomly to random units at random.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
I've no issues with the concept of altering the parameters of the game for variety or fluff reasons, but when the rules describing them start "roll a d6" then forget it.
That would make them a strategic consideration then wouldn't it?
I don't care what they are, as long as they affect both players equally and consistently.
By that standard, why you're even rolling dice at all, instead of replacing them with some sort of averages or random seed table? What if you roll 1 and your opponent rolls 6? That's, like, the exact opposite of 'affecting both players equally and consistently'
The disingenuous is strong with this one...
When you know you're just grenade lobbing and gak stirring, why even bother posting?
Anyway...as noted previously, it is an 'optional' rule, so I guess many people will opt not to do it?
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
Why are you playing a random dominant game? Every time you roll a die you introduce the possibility of being penalized by pure happenstance. With dozens if not hundreds of these rolls throughout the course of a game, it means that more than half of the outcome is determined by chance. That is the implicit terms of service we all sign when we play a game of toy soldiers and chance cubes.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
Why are you playing a random dominant game? Every time you roll a die you introduce the possibility of being penalized by pure happenstance. With dozens if not hundreds of these rolls throughout the course of a game, it means that more than half of the outcome is determined by chance. That is the implicit terms of service we all sign when we play a game of toy soldiers and chance cubes.
I can't speak for you, but not playing a random dominant game is pretty much the point. I am in control of my dice in so much as I can play to secure bonus dice/positive modifiers etc. Equally I'm in control of my models and how they move and act in order to try and force my opponent to act as sub-optimally as possible.
I'm content that dice peaks and troughs happen. This isn't the same as "roll a dice and on this arbitrary number a thing does or doesn't happen."
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
Why are you playing a random dominant game? Every time you roll a die you introduce the possibility of being penalized by pure happenstance. With dozens if not hundreds of these rolls throughout the course of a game, it means that more than half of the outcome is determined by chance. That is the implicit terms of service we all sign when we play a game of toy soldiers and chance cubes.
I can't speak for you, but not playing a random dominant game is pretty much the point. I am in control of my dice in so much as I can play to secure bonus dice/positive modifiers etc. Equally I'm in control of my models and how they move and act in order to try and force my opponent to act as sub-optimally as possible.
I'm content that dice peaks and troughs happen. This isn't the same as "roll a dice and on this arbitrary number a thing does or doesn't happen."
Out of interest for a constructive discussion, would you rather prefer a variation of the rule that did not necessarily cover the entire battlefield, but parts of it where it would be up to the player to walk in and brave the risks? Like say, having players place d6 (or just 6, or something that scales with the table size) areas (6" squares, perhaps) of intense lightning on the field at the beginning of the match, that might then either sit there or scatter d10" at the beginning of every turn to still incorporate the random element of unpredictable weather to the match? Or place those areas every Strategy phase?
i think weather could have influence on how far you can see, but nothing els i wont play the rules for lightning and stuff.
its diffecult enough to keep them alive
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
Why are you playing a random dominant game? Every time you roll a die you introduce the possibility of being penalized by pure happenstance. With dozens if not hundreds of these rolls throughout the course of a game, it means that more than half of the outcome is determined by chance. That is the implicit terms of service we all sign when we play a game of toy soldiers and chance cubes.
I can't speak for you, but not playing a random dominant game is pretty much the point. I am in control of my dice in so much as I can play to secure bonus dice/positive modifiers etc. Equally I'm in control of my models and how they move and act in order to try and force my opponent to act as sub-optimally as possible.
I'm content that dice peaks and troughs happen. This isn't the same as "roll a dice and on this arbitrary number a thing does or doesn't happen."
Out of interest for a constructive discussion, would you rather prefer a variation of the rule that did not necessarily cover the entire battlefield, but parts of it where it would be up to the player to walk in and brave the risks? Like say, having players place d6 (or just 6, or something that scales with the table size) areas (6" squares, perhaps) of intense lightning on the field at the beginning of the match, that might then either sit there or scatter d10" at the beginning of every turn to still incorporate the random element of unpredictable weather to the match? Or place those areas every Strategy phase?
Funnily enough, I was having a similar thought already. I was thinking that you placed a token to indicate the sensors registering a build up in a particular area at the start of the turn, then have the lighting strike at the end. Either way, that allows players to make an informed decision, especially if a danger area is in a prime firing lane or near an objective, and react, as opposed to "oh, I've rolled several sixes and now my titan's gun is hanging off."
The weather conditions are an optional rule, are they not? Personally, I think if you're going to include envirnmental conditions like this, they should be random, and part of your strategy should be how to deal with them (having reserves, or a fallback plan so you don't leave a titan stuck out on its own if there's a possibility it could suffer damage).
If that's not something you want, then don't use it, but don't try to claim it's somehow wrong.
I am quite happy to lose against an opponent who out thinks me, or engineers their own luck. If I lose because of random stuff that unfairly penalizes me because dice rolled higher/lower than they did against my opponent? No thank you.
Why are you playing a random dominant game? Every time you roll a die you introduce the possibility of being penalized by pure happenstance. With dozens if not hundreds of these rolls throughout the course of a game, it means that more than half of the outcome is determined by chance. That is the implicit terms of service we all sign when we play a game of toy soldiers and chance cubes.
I can't speak for you, but not playing a random dominant game is pretty much the point. I am in control of my dice in so much as I can play to secure bonus dice/positive modifiers etc. Equally I'm in control of my models and how they move and act in order to try and force my opponent to act as sub-optimally as possible.
I'm content that dice peaks and troughs happen. This isn't the same as "roll a dice and on this arbitrary number a thing does or doesn't happen."
Out of interest for a constructive discussion, would you rather prefer a variation of the rule that did not necessarily cover the entire battlefield, but parts of it where it would be up to the player to walk in and brave the risks? Like say, having players place d6 (or just 6, or something that scales with the table size) areas (6" squares, perhaps) of intense lightning on the field at the beginning of the match, that might then either sit there or scatter d10" at the beginning of every turn to still incorporate the random element of unpredictable weather to the match? Or place those areas every Strategy phase?
Funnily enough, I was having a similar thought already. I was thinking that you placed a token to indicate the sensors registering a build up in a particular area at the start of the turn, then have the lighting strike at the end. Either way, that allows players to make an informed decision, especially if a danger area is in a prime firing lane or near an objective, and react, as opposed to "oh, I've rolled several sixes and now my titan's gun is hanging off."
I like that, but it is gamewise reasonably close to already existing rules like the fault lines in the death of the Magma City scenario, where you have counters on the table that explode randomly during the game. They don't give a warning though, so they are not exactly the same and I like yours more, but hey. Given that Adeptus Titanicus is at its heart aimed for narrative-minded folk, I don't personally see that much of a problem with having random effects that affect the whole table since the area isn't too large anyway (it's not a whole war front, usually just a few hundred meters) and the usual scifi-weather should affect everything. I see your point though and can respect wanting rules that force informed decisions like averting a build up of lightning, but also feel there is enough space for both kinds of effects in the rules, especially as we haven't yet seen what the other 6 environmental tables are or how the campaign rules work. As it is, it is very easy to just leave stuff that one doesn't like out of the game: when I'm playing with new players, I usually ask do they want to use stratagems, princeps seniores traits, destructable terrain or any other bits of the game that can easily be left out by personal taste or intended game experience.
Same with this, one can decide what's the level of affect they want their environs to have:
1) Strategic level, something to keep constantly in mind even before the game. Do we want this game to be more pure as a match or more at the whims of chance like a historical fight (gamified and abstracted, of course)? If the first is desired, sure, let's use something that is constantly in effect like adding extra damage from corrosive atmosphere in there and everyone gets the same. If the latter, the players WANT the possibility of losing their Waterloo because the rains muddied the field too much for artillery to be moved effectively or in this case the possibility of cracking open a Warlord with an intrepid Warhound that just barely manages to strip its shields in time for a bolt out of the blue. The latter is not objectively bad rules writing, when it is an optional rule to add into the game if both players so desire. It does not prevent others from enjoying their battle of wits in a more controlled manner, but it does allow the narrative folk to go in the battle dreading what might happen. What I hope is incorporated in the campaign rules, or is at least easily added there, is the possibility for generals to look at the map of the warzone (we know it will have a map system) and have an inkling of what the weather and other environmental conditions (mud, swamp, barren fields, dense cityscape...) are in each area so that they have proper strategic thought about where they want to fight before the clash happens. That would also answer the intellectual problem of not wanting purely random effects: if you CHOOSE to go into war in an area under the lightning storm, which then affects the whole battlefield of the game, you'd done that in an informed manner and as a calculated risk like a real commander would. A possible example: there might be a rolling thunder over an important repairing station the enemy controls, your forces are in an adjacent area and poised to attack while the enemy is still one maneuver too far from reinforcing their light defences. Do you attack now and risk losing your engines to the storm while the enemy plays for time or do you wait for the storm to dissipate but risk facing a larger force of defenders? I'm not sure how the system is going to play out, but something like that could make for a very interesting game.
2) Tactical level, where you are more concerned with what's in front of you here and now. Pure random is less interesting here, whereas something like your proposed build-ups constantly add to the shifting nature of war and force movement. Still, even here it is not entirely without merit, as an old adage goes: "a good tactician capitalizes on an opportunity, a master makes their own". Since this is largely a game of maneuver with slow trickling of damage here and there until suddenly someone falls into a death spiral, having both constant effects like extra damage for reliable tactics and sudden openings can be fun. The core game play still remains the same, except you might have to spin on a dime and do something unanticipated a bit more often than usually as either your or their flank surprisingly collapses or a hole in their line appears. It is not without historical precedent that in war something WILL go fubar and accidents happen out of the blue, so these things have great value for those inclined towards narrative view. One of my favourites was "the Battle of the Schnapps" in 1788 where the Austrian army ended up firing on itself in the middle of the night, causing 1200 casualties, losing a bunch of their cannons, pushing the Holy Roman emperor into a creek in panic, routing themselves and eventually losing the city of Karansebes to the Ottomans because some of their outriders didn't want to share their freshly bought alcohol with the infantry
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Lupercal Maniple is pretty sweet. Tricksy to use right, but surprisingly powerful. Also bodes well in case we get Ursus Claws
Thumbs up from me!
We knew Audax wasn't coming in this one, but IIRC Suturvora was mentioned on one of their slides a while back. Just a wild speculation, but I wonder if they're now planning Shadow Crusade-oriented supplement down the road? Legio Lysansa would another obvious candidate for such a book, in addition to Audax and Suturvora.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Lupercal Maniple is pretty sweet. Tricksy to use right, but surprisingly powerful. Also bodes well in case we get Ursus Claws
Not sure how it's tricksy, as an avid Warhound user that seems pretty straightforward to me. Blunter and more aggressive than, say, Venator, which requires some stunts to maneuver your Reaver so it'll actually be useful, whereas the Lupercal basically allows you to shift your squadrons for maximum effect as the battle flows like water around them. +2 on Coordinated Attacks is just gravy. Tasty, tasty gravy with murder on the side.
All of the color schemes look great, I hope there is plenty more to be seen in the book. Especially for some of these knight houses that i've never heard of on the new transfer sheets.
zedmeister wrote: Nice list of Knight Houses and their allied Titan Legions:
House Orhlacc are listed as having blue and gold heraldry Possible mix up aside, that list has got quite a few new Knight houses and some name only Legios.
xttz wrote: Pre-orders are up in NZ... the Warlord weapon sprue is $85. For comparsion, Necromunda gangs are $83 and £25 on the UK site.
Japan the price band was even higher. 8000 yen which accounted to contemptator dreadnought which is 35 pounds or 46 euro's.
If that's the euro price I have serious replanning to do. Maybe I should abandon the plan of complete weapon sets afterall and just floooooooood myself titan count to ridiculous numbers.
What I would take away from the recent Necro releases announced in plastic including niche stuff like the Ambot would be that it's incredibly likely new Titan types will be plastic kits.
xttz wrote: Pre-orders are up in NZ... the Warlord weapon sprue is $85. For comparsion, Necromunda gangs are $83 and £25 on the UK site.
Japan the price band was even higher. 8000 yen which accounted to contemptator dreadnought which is 35 pounds or 46 euro's.
If that's the euro price I have serious replanning to do. Maybe I should abandon the plan of complete weapon sets afterall and just floooooooood myself titan count to ridiculous numbers.
I think you misread it. The Reaver is 8000. The weapon sprue is 6000.
The "tiny" reaver is significantly bigger than the slightly more expensive contemptator. Why are you surprised? If anything reaver is unusually cheap for GW.
xttz wrote: Pre-orders are up in NZ... the Warlord weapon sprue is $85. For comparsion, Necromunda gangs are $83 and £25 on the UK site.
Japan the price band was even higher. 8000 yen which accounted to contemptator dreadnought which is 35 pounds or 46 euro's.
If that's the euro price I have serious replanning to do. Maybe I should abandon the plan of complete weapon sets afterall and just floooooooood myself titan count to ridiculous numbers.
I think you misread it. The Reaver is 8000. The weapon sprue is 6000.
Reaver is 8200. Maybe there was price error in Japanese site for a while? Wouldn't be first time. OR I misread. Could be that anyway.
Still at 37e tad pricier than I expected so I'm downgrading plan of 12 sprues(6 warlord, 6 reaver to cover all the warlords and reavers of my both legions) to 2 sprues of both(to give 2 sprues for 3 titans) for Mortis. Victorum will get by without wysiwyg equipment at home games.
Corsair- 5 reavers, all reavers can move full outside of arc
Janissary- 2 reaver 2 hounds (reaver+hound extra) when a titan moves a knight banner can also move
Regia- 2 warlords (king and queen)+hound, 2 more hounds for full, if either warlords pass command check while in 12" the other one may also do without a roll, and warhound courtiers can merge shields with their king and queen within 3" rather than b2b
Need some more reavers it seems...I only have 3 per legion. I probably won't get every possible combo for Victorum(since they won't be getting wysiwyg weapons anyway due to price of sprues they won't be for tournaments anyway) but for Mortis I would like every maniple in full as option. Which means 2 more reavers...
Maybe I'll get 1 box of new reavers. Maybe I can get by with just 4 missile launchers.
A couple of guys at my club did that for a game instead of urban scenery and it looked great. Just need rules for a titan with a power fist uprooting one to use as a club. 
Earlier then I was expecting as well.
I wish there had been more info about legio colour schemes and background available at launch though.
Possible mix up aside, that list has got quite a few new Knight houses and some name only Legios.
