I would buy a full size Reaver for display if I had the time, energy and space for it but this new model is so ugly I just can't image buying it for display purposes.
The Warbringer is ugly as hell, and I hope they alter the goofy head or the proportions slightly for an AT model and make it less ugly. It's not like we get a Titan that often..so getting a piss-ugly one is a shame. The new starter set is nice, and I honestly think the actual "release" box should have been a single Reaver, two warhounds, and six knights or something --- cutting the price and leaving the Warlord for later purchase. Slap that in a $150 or so box and have a genuine actual starting game for a not-absurd price point.
Elbows wrote: The new starter set is nice, and I honestly think the actual "release" box should have been a single Reaver, two warhounds, and six knights or something --- cutting the price and leaving the Warlord for later purchase. Slap that in a $150 or so box and have a genuine actual starting game for a not-absurd price point.
I agree that GW needs a better starting point for new players, and the reaver seems to fit that purpose better than the warlord. I say the ruleset, 2 reavers and 2 frames of the buildings - at £90. Just enough to kick things off and two players to shoot the crap out of each other...similar to Imperial Knights Renegade perhaps? For those who want to go large they can then consider adding a Warlord or if they want to keep it small then a box of knights.
Come to think of it, they will soon have two versions of the Reaver to make this a reality...
This box set has me thinking seriously about getting into AT, for pretty much the first time. I can see myself getting that plus the alternate warlord.
No idea what kind of army that would make of course, but the models are pretty cool.
Mandragola wrote: This box set has me thinking seriously about getting into AT, for pretty much the first time. I can see myself getting that plus the alternate warlord.
There are some pretty sweet deals on the old Grand Master Edition from time to time. Some areas sell out while others can't move product and have to liquidate to make room for stuff that does sell. I just nabbed one yesterday for $250 shipped plus a 10% discount from eBay. Check your options before you buy any new sets with existing models.
Elbows wrote: The new starter set is nice, and I honestly think the actual "release" box should have been a single Reaver, two warhounds, and six knights or something --- cutting the price and leaving the Warlord for later purchase. Slap that in a $150 or so box and have a genuine actual starting game for a not-absurd price point.
I agree that GW needs a better starting point for new players, and the reaver seems to fit that purpose better than the warlord. I say the ruleset, 2 reavers and 2 frames of the buildings - at £90. Just enough to kick things off and two players to shoot the crap out of each other...similar to Imperial Knights Renegade perhaps? For those who want to go large they can then consider adding a Warlord or if they want to keep it small then a box of knights.
Come to think of it, they will soon have two versions of the Reaver to make this a reality...
Having new reaver might not be as nice as you might think. If player wants all weapons for all titans(like i) he would then have to buy new reaver box just for weapons...
Since they already announced that the new Warlord weapons sprue will be released separately, I think it's safe to think the same will be true of the Reaver.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Since they already announced that the new Warlord weapons sprue will be released separately, I think it's safe to think the same will be true of the Reaver.
Yes. NEW. No word whatsoever about OLD one...Which is why I'm not buying the new warlord box unless GW gives official word that the OLD weapon sprue comes out separately or I would have warlord with new sprue but no old one(which means no very handy apoc missile launchers for example and stuck with the laser blasters which are my 2nd least favourite carapaces)
If there was box set that had old reaver+new reaver what would happen? I would have old+new sprue and option to buy new sprue...Whatabout the 2nd old sprue? Answer: Would need to buy whole old reaver just for that.
I want all titans to have all sprues. Ergo I can't buy the new boxes.
I own two Warhounds and a Reaver (some pictures are in my gallery). I manage to play a few games a year with them, usually against a couple of Revenants and a Phantom or two with me supplementing my super heavies with a few knights. A warlord is on my list but I'm waiting for the Chaos version to match my other titans, I don't care how long I have to wait. I would guess I'm part of the primary target market for any new 40k Titans.
I feel that FW wants newer titans because 1) most people who actually will buy a 40k Imperial Titan already own one (or more), and 2) Warhounds/Reavers are decidedly under gunned against the latest Knights for the same points. I have a Porphyrion and that is just amazing points value compared to a Warhound. Sure one Warhound hits harder than one Porphyrion (especially against titanic), but I can take two Porphyrions and nearly two Armigers for the same points.
I suspect FW want to up gun the newest 40k Titan to match the inflation caused by the newest Knights, and sell more models to those who have already bought 40k Titans. Hence why we end up with this monstrosity. Would I buy it? Not as it currently looks.
That the warhound/reaver in 40k(not that it's relevant for game of AT) isn't worry for FW. They aren't even meant for gaming piece nor is GW interested in selling them to gamers. For gamers they prefer to spend that ££££ into plastic which gives higher profit rate for GW. The titan is marketed for those who are looking for non-gaming models so to which more plastic isn't that working idea. They could very well have already all the plastic they need as they aren't spamming most broken stuff nor are changing armies all the time chasing the most broken combo.
Warhound/reaver/warlord being lousy in game is pretty much irrelevant. They don't sell them for being useful in game. They aren't even usable in games where point efficiency is needed. In big apoc "bring what you have got" type of games point efficiency isn't even worth worrying so the big cool models fit right in.
However there's only so many titans you can sell to such collectors. They are more likely to buy 2 big titans than same titan twice.
I keep seeing this display piece only line all the time about 40k Titans, usually from people who say if they bought a Titan it would be a display piece only. Everybody I know who actually bought one games with it, granted not that many times a year, but they do use it. Its a constant source of comment during said game if the rules aren't very good or too good for a particular Titan. If you spent a lot of money on a model, and spent a huge number of points to field it, you don't want something that is going to give you a game when its a special event game.
Looky Likey wrote: I keep seeing this display piece only line all the time about 40k Titans, usually from people who say if they bought a Titan it would be a display piece only. Everybody I know who actually bought one games with it, granted not that many times a year, but they do use it. Its a constant source of comment during said game if the rules aren't very good or too good for a particular Titan. If you spent a lot of money on a model, and spent a huge number of points to field it, you don't want something that is going to give you a game when its a special event game.
You see them in games yes but are they big non-competive games or competive games? None of the titans are competive and indeed in terms of competiveness are auto lose. Ergo if you see them being used they are used DESPITE being sucky in gaming. Ergo they aren't being bought because they are good in game(they aren't. They are basically auto lose unless opponent also takes them).
Who buys one because they are COMPETIVE? You can't even field 2/3 of them in typical game so out of question. And warhound is automatic lose with 1500 pts nevermind the new 2000.
They are used because they are cool models and you already have it. Not because they are competive.
Looky Likey wrote: I keep seeing this display piece only line all the time about 40k Titans, usually from people who say if they bought a Titan it would be a display piece only. Everybody I know who actually bought one games with it, granted not that many times a year, but they do use it. Its a constant source of comment during said game if the rules aren't very good or too good for a particular Titan. If you spent a lot of money on a model, and spent a huge number of points to field it, you don't want something that is going to give you a game when its a special event game.
You see them in games yes but are they big non-competive games or competive games? None of the titans are competive and indeed in terms of competiveness are auto lose. Ergo if you see them being used they are used DESPITE being sucky in gaming. Ergo they aren't being bought because they are good in game(they aren't. They are basically auto lose unless opponent also takes them).
Who buys one because they are COMPETIVE? You can't even field 2/3 of them in typical game so out of question. And warhound is automatic lose with 1500 pts nevermind the new 2000.
They are used because they are cool models and you already have it. Not because they are competive.
Oh, so people do game with them then and not just have them as display pieces.
Competitive is relative. If you've spent a lot of money and time on some big toys, then had the hassle of organising a big game, last thing you want is your opponents latest big shinny being more powerful for less points as that leads to a game because you got wiped out early. If you are playing 2 or 3 games a week one early game wipe out a month or so isn't a big deal. If its your biannual big game using a £1ks worth of single model, last thing you want is to be wiped out by something costing less than half the points because the new model is just plain better per points. You want the game to last a good few turns without having to manually balance the forces.
Damage inflation per point is a real and intentional thing with super heavy walkers. The existing rules could be buffed but that won't sell as many models, hence why we get this new piece of .
The difference is, I think most people buy a titan because they want to paint and look at one, and then think "well, I've got it here, might as well use it".
As opposed to buying a titan because of its rules.
If I was going to spend £1200 on a 40k army, I'd spend that money on an army I'd use every week, not something I'll use once in a blue moon.
Looky Likey wrote: Competitive is relative. If you've spent a lot of money and time on some big toys, then had the hassle of organising a big game, last thing you want is your opponents latest big shinny being more powerful for less points as that leads to a game because you got wiped out early. If you are playing 2 or 3 games a week one early game wipe out a month or so isn't a big deal. If its your biannual big game using a £1ks worth of single model, last thing you want is to be wiped out by something costing less than half the points because the new model is just plain better per points. You want the game to last a good few turns without having to manually balance the forces.
Damage inflation per point is a real and intentional thing with super heavy walkers. The existing rules could be buffed but that won't sell as many models, hence why we get this new piece of .
Well clearly it's not a problem for many because people use them despite them never having been competive options...They suck. Gaming wise they all suck. You buy one knowing they suck. Hell GW doesn't even WANT them to be competive as the less those who want competive buy them rather than plastic the better it is for GW.
If being bad would be problem for buying titans they wouldn't sell at all. They suck. Pure and simple. You don't buy one if you expect it to be useful. Their rules are not issue for selling.
They are put on gaming board because you already have one. Not because you thought "they are good. Let's buy one and then play". It's buy first, then think up how to use it in game.
And new titan won't be good in terms of playability either. For starters it's between reaver and warlord so price will be about same. At which point it's moot point. GW don't have even much room to wiggle around. What? They are going to give it warlord level of stats for 2000 pts? That might not even make it out of automatic lose category...
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
Don't worry, that's the reaction most of us had, but the reaction was strong enough that GW are electing to release the new weapon sprues on their own early next year. For now you buy a Warlord/Reaver box that comprises a chassis sprue, an armour plating sprue, and one of the two weapon sprues.
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
Don't worry, that's the reaction most of us had, but the reaction was strong enough that GW are electing to release the new weapon sprues on their own early next year. For now you buy a Warlord/Reaver box that comprises a chassis sprue, an armour plating sprue, and one of the two weapon sprues.
If they combine that with say some other races, will be sold
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
So far official word is that the new weapon sprue is coming up. WHEN is still unknown. Another thing not known is whether OLD weapon sprue becomes on sale separate. That one could be important if you, like me, want all weapons for your titans so need both sprues. If new weapon sprue is separately available but not old one then buying the new titan will prevent you from having all weapons. Now if you have like 2 old and 1 new maybe you can live without old sprue for all(though I can see myself using 3 apoc launchers time to time for warlords for example) but if you want all sprues...Safe(though slow) way is to buy only original titan boxes and wait for individual sprues to come on sale whenever that is(next year and likely early but could still be january-march. If they want mention of that in WD pretty much has to be march though maybe they can decide to skip mention in WD for individual weapon sprues)
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
Don't worry, that's the reaction most of us had, but the reaction was strong enough that GW are electing to release the new weapon sprues on their own early next year. For now you buy a Warlord/Reaver box that comprises a chassis sprue, an armour plating sprue, and one of the two weapon sprues.
If they combine that with say some other races, will be sold
Other races are not currently on plans it seems but if the game sells well could come later. Not coming in a hurry though. I would myself guess 2020 or 2021 earliest.
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
Don't worry, that's the reaction most of us had, but the reaction was strong enough that GW are electing to release the new weapon sprues on their own early next year. For now you buy a Warlord/Reaver box that comprises a chassis sprue, an armour plating sprue, and one of the two weapon sprues.
Probably worth watching the AT segment on Twitch TV this Thursday at 5pm UK time, it is titled "AT update".
I am expecting a third version of the warlord with the remaining weapons to be sold as a complete model, then likely in the wake of Titandeath release, individual weapons sprues would become available. I think most of us are eagerly awaiting them.
Mendi Warrior wrote: I am expecting a third version of the warlord with the remaining weapons to be sold as a complete model, then likely in the wake of Titandeath release, individual weapons sprues would become available. I think most of us are eagerly awaiting them.
There's rumbling based on talks with stuff on the vigilus day there might not BE another plastic sprue and rest would be resin upgrades. Nothing official(and the persons said themselves they aren't definite it will be so) but that's what couple persons noted after they talked with designers. Hopefully wrong. 2/3 of my favourite weapons are still missing though as I don't have huge hate toward resin as some I can live with that. Biggest annoyance would be having to order directly rather than to FLGS.
Mendi Warrior wrote: I am expecting a third version of the warlord with the remaining weapons to be sold as a complete model, then likely in the wake of Titandeath release, individual weapons sprues would become available. I think most of us are eagerly awaiting them.
There's rumbling based on talks with stuff on the vigilus day there might not BE another plastic sprue and rest would be resin upgrades. Nothing official(and the persons said themselves they aren't definite it will be so) but that's what couple persons noted after they talked with designers. Hopefully wrong. 2/3 of my favourite weapons are still missing though as I don't have huge hate toward resin as some I can live with that. Biggest annoyance would be having to order directly rather than to FLGS.
I hope they will come as plastic. Curious to see what they will say tomorrow, if we get any hint about future weapons sprues.
Another unknown element is that we still don't know if individual weapons sprues will be available direct only or via FLGS, my preference is also via FLGS.
Mendi Warrior wrote: I am expecting a third version of the warlord with the remaining weapons to be sold as a complete model, then likely in the wake of Titandeath release, individual weapons sprues would become available. I think most of us are eagerly awaiting them.
There's rumbling based on talks with stuff on the vigilus day there might not BE another plastic sprue and rest would be resin upgrades. Nothing official(and the persons said themselves they aren't definite it will be so) but that's what couple persons noted after they talked with designers. Hopefully wrong. 2/3 of my favourite weapons are still missing though as I don't have huge hate toward resin as some I can live with that. Biggest annoyance would be having to order directly rather than to FLGS.
I hope they will come as plastic. Curious to see what they will say tomorrow, if we get any hint about future weapons sprues.
Another unknown element is that we still don't know if individual weapons sprues will be available direct only or via FLGS, my preference is also via FLGS.
At least my FLGS said they can provide anything except made to order. They will get smaller profit from direct only but for example command terminals etc that aren't standard stuff they can order.
Of course guess would depend on FLGS. As their line on it is very thin some don't do it.
The thing with resin weapons however might be that they aren't sold by GW store(FLGS can do it) but from forge world(FLGS cannot). But weapon sprues being plastic will almost certainly be GW sold and ergo FLGS safe.
I personally don't use twitch but I'm sure a lot of AT fans should join in for that to see what is what.
They would be insane if they don't release a weapon sprue (personal opinion).
Even if they do, they have shaken me in how they will release or they think to market, it's not worth it for a 1 faction army. My opinion is not set in stone, in future may change my mind. Just for a single release army, that is (not expensive for what need, but seems expensive) but is already limited in player market, I don't see it growing quick from GW marketing choices.
In my area is zero interest, so I will wait out a bit more before decide to commit (and try and get people into it).
I personally don't use twitch but I'm sure a lot of AT fans should join in for that to see what is what.
They would be insane if they don't release a weapon sprue (personal opinion).
Even if they do, they have shaken me in how they will release or they think to market, it's not worth it for a 1 faction army. My opinion is not set in stone, in future may change my mind. Just for a single release army, that is (not expensive for what need, but seems expensive) but is already limited in player market, I don't see it growing quick from GW marketing choices.
In my area is zero interest, so I will wait out a bit more before decide to commit (and try and get people into it).
"They are insane" was fairly popular opinion likely in the 1 day period it looked like that was what they were going to do
As for factions there might appear to be just 1 but legion rules will separate and there's already big difference with different lists with legion rules(next supplement gives several more), maniple rules(axiom maniple doesn't play at all like venator and that is complete opposite of myrmidon etc). With new titan classes coming up and knights there's plenty of room for each player to field and play different type of lists.
Lack of local community is valid problem though. I solved that in bit expensive way by getting 2 legions so I can provide opponent with legion. Hopefully helps converting people
Key issue being resources. There's only so much plastic moulds they are allowed to produce as those are expensive. Especially for unproven game. If game is selling as well as it seems maybe GW will allow accelerating schedule or at least lock up on xenos factions but even then simple fact is lead times are long. Even if they would green light first xenos faction today it would be late 2019 at earliest.
I personally don't use twitch but I'm sure a lot of AT fans should join in for that to see what is what.
They would be insane if they don't release a weapon sprue (personal opinion).
Even if they do, they have shaken me in how they will release or they think to market, it's not worth it for a 1 faction army. My opinion is not set in stone, in future may change my mind. Just for a single release army, that is (not expensive for what need, but seems expensive) but is already limited in player market, I don't see it growing quick from GW marketing choices.
In my area is zero interest, so I will wait out a bit more before decide to commit (and try and get people into it).
"They are insane" was fairly popular opinion likely in the 1 day period it looked like that was what they were going to do
As for factions there might appear to be just 1 but legion rules will separate and there's already big difference with different lists with legion rules(next supplement gives several more), maniple rules(axiom maniple doesn't play at all like venator and that is complete opposite of myrmidon etc). With new titan classes coming up and knights there's plenty of room for each player to field and play different type of lists.
Lack of local community is valid problem though. I solved that in bit expensive way by getting 2 legions so I can provide opponent with legion. Hopefully helps converting people
Key issue being resources. There's only so much plastic moulds they are allowed to produce as those are expensive. Especially for unproven game. If game is selling as well as it seems maybe GW will allow accelerating schedule or at least lock up on xenos factions but even then simple fact is lead times are long. Even if they would green light first xenos faction today it would be late 2019 at earliest.
Factions of "Space Marines are still Space Marines" (not that they are Space marines is the relegation or similarity) is all I hear quoted trying to convert people to it if they don't think big machines are cool (I do but...), or where is my Ork titan, or where is my Eldar titan etc etc.
I am not gunna buy personally until see some separate weapons sprues, so can promote more and I am then not gunna buy until my mates could get interested. Not collectible for me like Necromunda etc or BFG. This is just a fun game I would like to play, but if not I'm not worried if don't.
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
At the moment, you have to buy an entire new Warlord, however GW have announced that the sprues will be available individually in the new year. At least, the ones from the new versions of the Warlord and Reaver will be, they haven't stated if the sprues from the original versions will also be released individually. I'd expect so, but if you want to be safe, buy the original Warlord\Reaver versions for now. The Warhounds come with two of each weapon per pair so you should have enough weapons as standard, unless you want to arm lots of Warhounds with the same matching pair of weapons.
So I was waiting before decided whether to buy AT. Now new weapon options are out etc are they individual sprues? Or do you for example have to buy an entire new Warlord etc? All I see is different entire Warlords? Am I missing something?
Just gunna wait longer it seems? (Would do BFG in a heart beat however)
At the moment, you have to buy an entire new Warlord, however GW have announced that the sprues will be available individually in the new year. At least, the ones from the new versions of the Warlord and Reaver will be, they haven't stated if the sprues from the original versions will also be released individually. I'd expect so, but if you want to be safe, buy the original Warlord\Reaver versions for now. The Warhounds come with two of each weapon per pair so you should have enough weapons as standard, unless you want to arm lots of Warhounds with the same matching pair of weapons.
Should you decide to go that road, look at the upcoming titan battlegroup box that will be released next weekend, if not mistaken, costs £100 for £140 in value, you get a warlord, a reaver and 2 warhounds. Both warlord and reaver are of the first design released. You can then complete with additional weapons sprues once they become available. Use of magnets is strongly advised.
Factions of "Space Marines are still Space Marines" (not that they are Space marines is the relegation or similarity) is all I hear quoted trying to convert people to it if they don't think big machines are cool (I do but...), or where is my Ork titan, or where is my Eldar titan etc etc.
I am not gunna buy personally until see some separate weapons sprues, so can promote more and I am then not gunna buy until my mates could get interested. Not collectible for me like Necromunda etc or BFG. This is just a fun game I would like to play, but if not I'm not worried if don't.
Sorry if this has been discussed and answered but what is the consenus on the liklihood that the new titan set with free Warhounds will be sold (at further discount) through third party sellers?
No reason to think it differs from other christmas deals so yes.
For non-UK's better Q is is it better to order contents separately or box itself. Bloody shipping prices! Will see on saturday I guess. Looking for 2 boxes if price is right after shipping
tneva82 wrote: No reason to think it differs from other christmas deals so yes.
For non-UK's better Q is is it better to order contents separately or box itself. Bloody shipping prices! Will see on saturday I guess. Looking for 2 boxes if price is right after shipping
Yes I assume they will. They sell Tooth and Claw and other value boxes through discounters. It's just the label on this set ("Deal" and "Xmas") that gives me pause for thought, as if the suggestion of limited time / availability means that it might not show up through resellers. I really hope it does, if so I'll be starting my AT legion very soon with two Warlords, two Reavers and four Warhounds, pretty decent start, especially if I only build half of them and wait for the upgrade sprues (TBH I only really need the new Warlord sprue as I'll likely add a third Reaver, so that will be where I get my alternate Reaver sprue anyway).
Thing is they have sold christmas deals through 3rd parties before as well(one store in Finland still had ork one last time I checked). So again no reason to think it differs from that.
Oh and why wait? Just magnetize them all. No need to wait for upgrade sprues before assembling.
tneva82 wrote: Thing is they have sold christmas deals through 3rd parties before as well(one store in Finland still had ork one last time I checked). So again no reason to think it differs from that.
Oh and why wait? Just magnetize them all. No need to wait for upgrade sprues before assembling.
Yes true. I've never felt the need to magnetise before (non-gamer) but I was thinking about it for maybe the Warlords, I suppose now would be the time if ever.
They are dirt easy to magnetize. Especially warlord where you don't even need to do any cutting and can put all in(reaver and warhounds cables are bit of issue so I can see why less heavy gamers might not magnetize those) without worry.
For me so much fun of the AT is different weapon combos and just too many combos for me to NOT magnetize!
Yeah it's not so much the bother of doing the work (as a long time hobbyist I've been converting for aeons, back into the days when miniatures were made of lead, then white metal). I've just never had the need of it before, I'll quite happily have two mono-pose, single loadout Warlords, I just want them to look different. Plus there's the downside to magnetising if you aren't a gamer (painting up extra bits, having nowhere to put them, except on the cabinet shelf next to the mini that they're supposed to pair with, slightly less stability to the structure of the model, and the extra chance of wear and tear on the paint if you ever decided to switch over the weapons, which I doubt I'll do often if ever TBF).
Well true enough if you literally never play. That kind of thing is so alien concept for me hard to comment on whether it's worth it to magnetize on that case
tneva82 wrote: Well true enough if you literally never play. That kind of thing is so alien concept for me hard to comment on whether it's worth it to magnetize on that case
I'm thinking just whatever Warlord gets the newer upgrade sprue, I can magnetise one fist joint, and have the option of two plasma cannons or plasma / fist combo. That seems low effort and therefore worth a little extra work.
Having new reaver might not be as nice as you might think. If player wants all weapons for all titans(like i) he would then have to buy new reaver box just for weapons...
I'm going to give GW the benefit of the doubt here and say that once the new Warlord and Reaver variants are released, they would then release the original weapon sprues sometime in the new year - they may even do both at the same time, but that is pure speculation on my part. There may even be new Titans that share weapons with the Reavers or Warlords and so would need those sprues separately...
For Night Vault they released the contents from the previous Shadespire separately, so I would assume they could do the same for Titanicus. It would certainly be an easy release for them durning a quiet gap between major releases.
For what I was proposing though( starter set with two reavers ), including both the first reaver and and the new one would at least give the players access to all the current weapons, even though the two reavers could not equip the same weapons. In a perfect world where they do release such a set, they could be generous enough to include two weapon sprues for each of the two titans, but I think thats wishful thinking. There is only so much one can expect from GW.
They used to offer the Landraider lascannon and Crusader weapon sprues separately but now you can only get the Crusader sponsons. For the purpose of magnetization it’s better to buy a regular LR and the Crusader sprue separately so that may be how it goes.
We don’t know how the molds are laid out, for all we know the body and both weapon sprues are in the same mold this whole time and they just stockpile them in separate piles. For now I think we should assume that the Warlord volcano/Apoc sprue and the Reaver Gatling/laserblaster/Apoc sprues won’t be available separately and only with the retail boxes.
Where a kit is two or more frames broken up into individual sprues to go in a box, you can usually tell how they fit together - all the ones I've had have fitted back together.
I doubt they'd be stockpiling anything, though - just grind them up and use the plastic for something else.
I have decided to keep it all sealed until I know what weapon sprues are available and when, I should have known that buying the first big box release might put me at a disadvantage, its turning out to be a right messy release schedule, cant moan though at least we got AT back.
I remember from the old fluff that reaver titans were supposed to be very rare, I take it that this bit of fluff has changed seeing as though they are bring out three different types ?
Rayvon wrote: I have decided to keep it all sealed until I know what weapon sprues are available and when, I should have known that buying the first big box release might put me at a disadvantage, its turning out to be a right messy release schedule, cant moan though at least we got AT back.
I remember from the old fluff that reaver titans were supposed to be very rare, I take it that this bit of fluff has changed seeing as though they are bring out three different types ?
a) how are you at disadvantage? So far from official word the guys buying newest boxes are the ones at disadvantage. We know you can get new weapon sprues separately. No word on old ones. Only disadvantage is early buyers didn't have access to this deal but then again that won't be available forever either so it's advantage for very specific timeframe.
b) what 3 types of reaver? There's the reaver we already had. Then there's the new reaver with alternative weapons but that's not REALLY new reaver. Titans are supposed to have access to various weapons. Hull is still same. So there's new weapon options? That doesn't mean titan is somehow common. There's not even mention of 3rd variant with more weapons and that would also require new never heard weapons seeing only 2 weapons left for reavers. The warp missile which we know is resin(and thus not coming in new box set likely) and vulcan mega bolter.
If you are referring to the new titan with big quake cannon that's not reaver but whole new class. It's cross between warlord and reaver. Just because there's another chassis between reaver and warlord that's bigger than reaver and smaller than warlord doesn't make reaver common.
The fluff about Reavers being rarer than Warlords dates back from when Warlords came in plastic and Reavers were metal (and not released until a couple of months after the original game). Is it even mentioned in any background since the 1990s?
tneva82 wrote: I have decided to keep it all sealed until I know what weapon sprues are available and when, I should have known that buying the first big box release might put me at a disadvantage, its turning out to be a right messy release schedule, cant moan though at least we got AT back.
I remember from the old fluff that reaver titans were supposed to be very rare, I take it that this bit of fluff has changed seeing as though they are bring out three different types ?
a) how are you at disadvantage? So far from official word the guys buying newest boxes are the ones at disadvantage. We know you can get new weapon sprues separately. No word on old ones. Only disadvantage is early buyers didn't have access to this deal but then again that won't be available forever either so it's advantage for very specific timeframe.
b) what 3 types of reaver? There's the reaver we already had. Then there's the new reaver with alternative weapons but that's not REALLY new reaver. Titans are supposed to have access to various weapons. Hull is still same. So there's new weapon options? That doesn't mean titan is somehow common. There's not even mention of 3rd variant with more weapons and that would also require new never heard weapons seeing only 2 weapons left for reavers. The warp missile which we know is resin(and thus not coming in new box set likely) and vulcan mega bolter.
If you are referring to the new titan with big quake cannon that's not reaver but whole new class. It's cross between warlord and reaver. Just because there's another chassis between reaver and warlord that's bigger than reaver and smaller than warlord doesn't make reaver common.
Sorry I did not realise that they had announced all the weapons would be release on seperate sprues, I was only aware that the new Warlord weapons were coming seperate, it would make it much easier for me to plan what I need if that is the case.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Is it even mentioned in any background since the 1990s?
No idea man, it was part of the fluff last time I played, hence why I asked, I am tempted to crack open a box just to read the books.
Sorry I did not realise that they had announced all the weapons would be release on seperate sprues, I was only aware that the new Warlord weapons were coming seperate, it would make it much easier for me to plan what I need if that is the case.
They haven't said the original weapons sprue will come out by itself, all they've talked about is the new one appearing at some point in the new year after the outcry from the community
(my suspicion is the old one won't, as I think they'd have mentioned it at the same time if they were planning to, but that's just a guess on my part)
Honestly the old one doesn't need to come out on its own. You can just buy the original Warlord direct and then simply get the expansion pack of weapons from the new one if you want to magnetize.
The new warlord box is clearly for those who want to fix-build and it acts as another draw to the game. Esp since the game has a limited roster at present so having another warlord box is good right now.
I'd fully expect in time that we'll see boxes like the new warlord retired as they expand the range with additional factions (eg chaos).
AndrewGPaul wrote: The fluff about Reavers being rarer than Warlords dates back from when Warlords came in plastic and Reavers were metal (and not released until a couple of months after the original game). Is it even mentioned in any background since the 1990s?
It's even older than that. It comes from the very first AT rulebook when only Warlords had a model and Reavers were just a concept sketch. The more recent fluff in the HH books explains that titan composition varies heavily by legion, with some preferring some classes above others even to the point of using those exclusively.
Overread wrote: Honestly the old one doesn't need to come out on its own. You can just buy the original Warlord direct and then simply get the expansion pack of weapons from the new one if you want to magnetize.
.
Does mean those like me can't buy new warlord or reaver box but have to wait potentially still months for weapons though. If old sprue would come separately as well could get 1 of both right away but now locked out
xttz wrote: It's even older than that. It comes from the very first AT rulebook when only Warlords had a model and Reavers were just a concept sketch. The more recent fluff in the HH books explains that titan composition varies heavily by legion, with some preferring some classes above others even to the point of using those exclusively.
Reavers came out the same month as Adeptus Titanicus, in fact I think they may even have been available before the main game was released, bought my first Reaver on the 10th of December (from GW Bristol the day it opened, a week before the grand opening) but I'm pretty sure AT wasn't available until later in the month as I remember impatiently waiting for it!
Overread wrote: Honestly the old one doesn't need to come out on its own. You can just buy the original Warlord direct and then simply get the expansion pack of weapons from the new one if you want to magnetize.
.
Does mean those like me can't buy new warlord or reaver box but have to wait potentially still months for weapons though.
Yes yes it does.
Or you can see if they are sold on ebay as parts, but you might wind up paying quite a bit for them.
Like I said it doesn't make sense for GW, at present, to have two warlords and two upgrade packs on the market at the same time. Easier to simply ignore the new warlord and wait for the upgrade pack and have the original as the "core" warlord set and all else is based off it.
You are freely able to go out right now and buy the original warlord, paint it up and get it ready for the upgrade parts of course.
Overread wrote: Honestly the old one doesn't need to come out on its own. You can just buy the original Warlord direct and then simply get the expansion pack of weapons from the new one if you want to magnetize.
.
Does mean those like me can't buy new warlord or reaver box but have to wait potentially still months for weapons though. If old sprue would come separately as well could get 1 of both right away but now locked out
Saying that, if you are a crafty devil you could make your own stand-in weapons until the official sprues become available!
Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.
I watched it, they only wanted to talk about stuff already announced. Spent most of the time talking about the weapon sprues & cerastus knights we've already seen and dodging any other questions about future releases.
The only real useful information was confirmation that a FAQ was being worked on.
From what I understood, they seemed to rule out acastus class knights, saying "no plans".
Regarding weapons, I understood the ones in the cards would be released in plastic, the more esoteric ones in resin (not really new, I have seen another take saying "all resin" so eager to have official news on that).
For the rest, a lot of "would be nice, cool, if resources, time, …"
The idea that the Warbringer is not a dead cert for a future AT release is kind of odd. Are they still so afraid that the bean counters are going to pull the rug from under them that they don't want to commit to anything past the 2nd Reaver?
---They talked about the new releases for which we've already seen previews
---Talked about the "modularity" of the Warlord & Reaver sprues
---They may eventually get to the Warbringer Nemesis, but not soon
---They are not working on an Imperator at this time, and it's not in their current plans, but they may look at it again in the future
---Separate weapon sprues will be available "soon" in the new year
---The smaller weapons on the Power Claws are already factored into the profile - it's not an omission
---More Legion Traits and special rules are on the way with Titandeath
---They'd like to do Legio specific dice
---No immediate plans for Xenos - they want to keep to the Horus Heresy right now
---They want to do the other Cerastus (and Questoris) Knight weapons eventually - they just wouldn't fit on the sprue
---Titandeath
--- +Read the novel to "see" what's in it
--- +Beta Garmon conflict
--- +Some of the biggest Titan battles ever
---For High Gothic Titan names - it's your Legio - do what you want
---Imperial Hunters colors are white dappled over green, with red accents and gold trim
---They're interested in doing more terrain
---Lots of "banned" weapons were used during the Heresy - anything to win - including Ordinatus and others
---Legio Audax (Ember Wolves) are all Warhounds - read the short story
---After the current batch of plastics, it sounds like further weapons will be resin from Forgeworld
---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters
---They are working on a FAQ, which will be released
Mendi Warrior wrote: That's what I understood. They basically said "Acastus … no plans".
We'll see. Plans can change.
My feeling is there are tons of things they would like to do but they always mention resources and time which are the usual suspects/constraints.
It would be super cool if they did release that bad-lad. I've seen one on pininterest where someone has painted theirs in a Quake-style scheme and it looks glorious.
JWBS wrote: Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.
you can watch them live (although I know many can't)
If you've got amazon prime you also get access to twitch prime (which I think gives you a 'free' channel you can change every month) which may be an option for you?
If you are already an Amazon Prime member, you obtain Twitch Prime at no additional cost by connecting your Amazon account to your Twitch account.
1.Go to twitchprime.com.
2.Click to connect your Amazon account to your Twitch account to access your benefits:
JWBS wrote: Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.
you can watch them live (although I know many can't)
If you've got amazon prime you also get access to twitch prime (which I think gives you a 'free' channel you can change every month) which may be an option for you?
If you are already an Amazon Prime member, you obtain Twitch Prime at no additional cost by connecting your Amazon account to your Twitch account.
1.Go to twitchprime.com.
2.Click to connect your Amazon account to your Twitch account to access your benefits:
I don't have amazon prime, and if I did I'd use my token on a channel that makes good content, like SC2 GSL / WCS (even though they do their VODs for free...I'd still give them my support over two guys sitting in a room saying "Yeah, we designed some sprues, they'll be available for purchase, and hey, why not sub to this channel too? You can get VODs, which most respectable channels don't paywall anyway".
I suspect they don't want to do much in forms of official announcements of new stuff in twitch leaving that for warhammer community articles. Or has twitch been source for new reveals before?
Anyway warbringer being "maybe" is bit let down but guess I can see GW not having to wanted to commit to doing that before AT is even released if it were to be coming in a soon. If it was greenlighted say in october after sales were good it would still be like almost a year in the coming at earliest so they wouldn't be likely saying anything concrete now anyway.
Wonder if the new reaver comes in december? Not that it matters much to me. More crucial is when the individual sprues come.
Too bad they didn't announce old weapon sprues coming on their own later as well or I would have picked the new warlord tomorrow :(
When they bring out multi weapons sprues for all the models (or alternate races), I will buy an army. Until then stuff that, I will just wait for if they release BFG for a new game tbh.
tneva82 wrote: I suspect they don't want to do much in forms of official announcements of new stuff in twitch leaving that for warhammer community articles. Or has twitch been source for new reveals before?
They showed quite a few Necromunda concept art for upcoming release stuff, but since Titandeath didn't have any new model i doubt they have any to show.
tneva82 wrote: Anyway warbringer being "maybe" is bit let down but guess I can see GW not having to wanted to commit to doing that before AT is even released if it were to be coming in a soon. If it was greenlighted say in october after sales were good it would still be like almost a year in the coming at earliest so they wouldn't be likely saying anything concrete now anyway.
Wonder if the new reaver comes in december? Not that it matters much to me. More crucial is when the individual sprues come.
Don't read too much into the Warbringer thing. They said the same about cerastus knights not long ago. Everything not yet formally announced is "maybe some day". My money is on the Warbringer being the main model release alongside Titandeath.
The Reaver sprue they previewed was dated 2019 (as opposed to the Warlord one dated 2018) so I think we can expect that box early in the new year. No clue on the separate purchase though...
Gw is very careful about not promising anything too far off. Which is sensible, more than one game company has come very unstuck when they've promised or suggested things were "coming soon" only to never release them or to have a development time that wound up lasting years.
Far better that GW says "we won't commit" or "no" so that if something were to cause a release to be delayed or cancelled, the market isn't left as annoyed.
I'm still waiting for the rules for Psi-titans announced in 1989 for Adeptus Titanicus as "coming soon". Or the original announcement of their 40k space combat game - announced as "coming soon", ended up coming out several years later in much-reduced form as "Space Fleet".
Spectral Ceramite wrote: When they bring out multi weapons sprues for all the models (or alternate races), I will buy an army. Until then stuff that, I will just wait for if they release BFG for a new game tbh.
And you think they’ll just dump all the BFG stuff in one go? First you’ll get the cruiser with batteries, then they’ll release a cruiser with carrier bays, the battleship, then a battleship with different guns, then the SM strike cruiser, the strike cruiser with a nova cannon, etc.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: When they bring out multi weapons sprues for all the models (or alternate races), I will buy an army. Until then stuff that, I will just wait for if they release BFG for a new game tbh.
Actually not far off my own opinion, even though I've got the rules, a Warlord and some Knnnnnnigits.
See, having read through the book and the weapon cards, I'm happy that the game will be most interesting when the weapons listed on the current cards are all available. Without it, there's basically 5 army structures, which isn't massively interesting to me, as there's 20% chance I'll just be facing a carbon copy of my own Maniple.
Now don't get me wrong, the game is still fun. But it needs more releases before it starts to achieve it's true potential.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: When they bring out multi weapons sprues for all the models (or alternate races), I will buy an army. Until then stuff that, I will just wait for if they release BFG for a new game tbh.
And you think they’ll just dump all the BFG stuff in one go? First you’ll get the cruiser with batteries, then they’ll release a cruiser with carrier bays, the battleship, then a battleship with different guns, then the SM strike cruiser, the strike cruiser with a nova cannon, etc.
At the risk of sounding like I'm just being a Fanboi, if that release strategy is what it takes to make these games worth it for GW to produce, it's a poison I'm willing to swallow.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: When they bring out multi weapons sprues for all the models (or alternate races), I will buy an army. Until then stuff that, I will just wait for if they release BFG for a new game tbh.
And you think they’ll just dump all the BFG stuff in one go? First you’ll get the cruiser with batteries, then they’ll release a cruiser with carrier bays, the battleship, then a battleship with different guns, then the SM strike cruiser, the strike cruiser with a nova cannon, etc.
At the risk of sounding like I'm just being a Fanboi, if that release strategy is what it takes to make these games worth it for GW to produce, it's a poison I'm willing to swallow.
Indeed, a little bit at a time so as to build immunity to poison like late King Mithridates
To be fair to GW the release schedule has so far been decent and given just enough time to allow players to prepare their models and get up to speed with the rules. The titans are also not the quickest of models to assemble and paint, especially when they are considered the standard "troop" choice of the game.
Oh I'm annoyed at the drip feed method of releases but I understand their business model. They just need to understand that I'm going to 3d print and convert what I need to play rather than wait 6 months for plasma cannons for my Warlords.
Christ they really need to get the folk who write the articles to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the rules of the game they're writing about.
No, WD Guy, a Castigator is not a great choice for stripping Void Shields because the sodding Bolt Cannon is STR3 and Voids ignore STR3 and below
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters
I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...
JWBS wrote:Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.
They "paywall" them to deter 4chan trolls and co, it's either allow commenting and chat to everyone, or only to subscribed accounts. Gee, I wonder what is going to be easier to moderate and have actual discussion with saner part of the audience, allowing everyone in or making the usual alt right trolls actually pay anything for their burst of idiocy before they are banned?
You can watch everything for free as it airs, and as much as I'd like VODs to be free, it's on Twitch's policies, not GW.
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters
I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...
Well titan legions are older than 200 years having started in age of strife.
Also Imperium has been losing ability to produce them.
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters
I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown.
I don't think it's just that production has fallen off terribly (though it likely has compared to the Great Crusade-era just because of the Dark Mechanicus rift) but also the combat attrition on the Legios has increased dramatically. During the Great Crusade the Orks were scattered at Ullanor and took a while to re-form, the Eldar were still reeling from the birth of Slaanesh, the Chaos Gods were quiescent (comparatively) and the major other races were either asleep or not yet evolved. In short, compared to the Age of the Imperium there were actually a lot fewer major war fronts even if they were fighting a great deal more opponents in the Great Crusade. Also, the targets of those GC wars were likely much smaller and thus less able to offer meaningful resistance to the Titans unlike the opponents of M41.
With the schisms in the AM and those increased warfront commitments, I can see where a forge world 1) wouldn't exist anymore or 2) is having to choose which Legios's losses to make good. Either circumstance would likely leave those minor Legios in a position of dying out or merging with another, which is effectively the same.
Not sure that's the official GW explanation, but it fits with the backstory that I've heard about at any rate.
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters
I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...
JWBS wrote:Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.
They "paywall" them to deter 4chan trolls and co, it's either allow commenting and chat to everyone, or only to subscribed accounts. Gee, I wonder what is going to be easier to moderate and have actual discussion with saner part of the audience, allowing everyone in or making the usual alt right trolls actually pay anything for their burst of idiocy before they are banned?
You can watch everything for free as it airs, and as much as I'd like VODs to be free, it's on Twitch's policies, not GW.
Nah man. I watch some Twitch live streams but I'd say I watch VODs a bit more, and I don't pay for any of them. It's entirely on GW if they want to charge people to watch their vods, and making them free doesn't effect live chat at all (and incidentally there are other ways of making live chat more sane, such as "1hr follower mode" etc, where you can only chat if you've followed the channel for at least an hour. But I'm not talking about that anyway, I'm pointing out that GW seem to hope that people are willing to give them money to watch their random ass vids).
The same rumor mongers that predicted adeptus titanicus, and got everything right, predicted BFG was coming afterward. I'm not sure how they would know so much about AT, release date, exact size of the models, material, etc, but be 100% wrong about BFG.
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters
I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...
JWBS wrote:Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.
They "paywall" them to deter 4chan trolls and co, it's either allow commenting and chat to everyone, or only to subscribed accounts. Gee, I wonder what is going to be easier to moderate and have actual discussion with saner part of the audience, allowing everyone in or making the usual alt right trolls actually pay anything for their burst of idiocy before they are banned?
You can watch everything for free as it airs, and as much as I'd like VODs to be free, it's on Twitch's policies, not GW.
Nah man. I watch some Twitch live streams but I'd say I watch VODs a bit more, and I don't pay for any of them. It's entirely on GW if they want to charge people to watch their vods, and making them free doesn't effect live chat at all (and incidentally there are other ways of making live chat more sane, such as "1hr follower mode" etc, where you can only chat if you've followed the channel for at least an hour. But I'm not talking about that anyway, I'm pointing out that GW seem to hope that people are willing to give them money to watch their random ass vids).
I don't think there's any "hope" required - the chat stream is usually pretty busy.
The same rumor mongers that predicted adeptus titanicus, and got everything right, predicted BFG was coming afterward. I'm not sure how they would know so much about AT, release date, exact size of the models, material, etc, but be 100% wrong about BFG.
I never said BFG wasn't coming, just that it'll be a long wait. "Afterward" is a vague term. If Spectral Ceramite isn't willing to wait for Eldar or Orks for AT, they'll probably be waiting even longer for them in BFG. They'll be waiting until late next year at the very earliest, and if BFG does come along in 2019, it'll almost certainly be set in the Heresy too - so only Imperial ships available.
If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.
If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.
If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.
SamusDrake wrote: If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.
If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.
If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.
They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.
GW isn't promising anything for Epic and lets not forget Epic would be a much bigger investment than AT because they'd have to make a lot more individual unit moulds to get core armies started off for it. AT is a much smaller investment even if the sculpts and moulds themselves are far larger.
Plus AT scales itself well, even with just one faction it works. They can stop it at any point and it still works whilst they can and likely iwll take it further to corrupted and warped chaos titans and then on to Xenos but that's years away yet (and GW marketing focuses more on months than years)
They say they have no plans but I would not be surprised to see it come back in a few years time, it was always a very popular system and there are still a lot of old fans knocking about and they never said never !
Still there is a lot that can be done with AT and I am happy with that so far.
Well, who knows what the future holds with GW but I do know that AT is a step in the right direction. Despite the awkward August launch the game has still managed to find its audience and seems to be selling quite well.
I've noticed they have used the new battle group box set as part of a one-click purchase on the GW site. If bundled into a single box this could be a replacement for the Grand Master edition...
SamusDrake wrote: If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.
If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.
If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.
They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.
For one gw also said no space hulk rerelease 2 weeks before they announced space hulk rerelease. For 2nd 40kls totally unsuited for big battles. Totally different kettle for 40k and epic
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: GW isn't promising anything for Epic and lets not forget Epic would be a much bigger investment than AT because they'd have to make a lot more individual unit moulds to get core armies started off for it. AT is a much smaller investment even if the sculpts and moulds themselves are far larger.
Plus AT scales itself well, even with just one faction it works. They can stop it at any point and it still works whilst they can and likely iwll take it further to corrupted and warped chaos titans and then on to Xenos but that's years away yet (and GW marketing focuses more on months than years)
Dunno. They could get by with 3-4 sprues to start with easily if tkey wantem.
Not adding infantry and non-Super Heavies to Adeptus Titanicus isn’t the same as ‘not doing Epic ever’.
They’re two different games, each providing a different experience. If Titans do feature in Epic (I can’t imagine they won’t), it’ll be a more streamlined rules set. Think strip out the reactor rules, simplified damage rules etc. Otherwise the infantry and lighter tanks serve no real purpose once you plonk a Titan on the board using the AT rules, because the vast majority won’t be able to dent it, let alone knock down shields.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the sprue requirements?
Look at the original Epic Space Marine sprue.
Spoiler:
Single sprue. 4 Rhinos, every infantry to fill them, and two Landraiders. Pretty basic, and that’s all it really needs to be. Whack in three or four per player, and another with additional infantry (Heavy Weapons, Terminators etc). Enough to get things going.
SamusDrake wrote: Well, who knows what the future holds with GW but I do know that AT is a step in the right direction. Despite the awkward August launch the game has still managed to find its audience and seems to be selling quite well.
I've noticed they have used the new battle group box set as part of a one-click purchase on the GW site. If bundled into a single box this could be a replacement for the Grand Master edition...
That bundle is a great starter at a good price. Exactly what the game needs.
There’s also this sprue, which offers a greater variety of troops.
Spoiler:
Two stands of bikes, stand of Terminators, stand of Scouts, Command squad, 8 Heavy Weapons, assorted Sargeants. Loads of variety, single sprue. Which may have been matched with one of Tactical Marines? Memory is hazy there.
I started 40k in 3rd edition and Epic wasn't sold in stores then IIRC. Can we talk for a minute about why Epic faded away? What held Epic and Warmaster back while Fantasy/40k became way more successful?
I'm just asking because GW needs a real business case for rebooting something that seemed very niche in a niche hobby.
Fajita Fan wrote: I started 40k in 3rd edition and Epic wasn't sold in stores then IIRC. Can we talk for a minute about why Epic faded away? What held Epic and Warmaster back while Fantasy/40k became way more successful?
I'm just asking because GW needs a real business case for rebooting something that seemed very niche in a niche hobby.
I'd say two things.
1. GW themselves. Their paranoia at the idea they were "cannibalising" sales for their "main" systems led them to increasingly de-emphasise other games, first switching from just releasing extra games - like Epic - to releasing extra games as Specialist Games with a defined shelf-life before support was dropped and they moved on to another, and eventually by culling virtually all support entirely and not making any new SGs at all.
2. The kind of grogs/vets who stayed with the company through the behaviour from 1, many of whom were content to just keep expanding their 40K/WHF collections(though eventually GW's strategy following point 1 would do for the latter of those as well) and who liked the things GW were offering in terms of being able to use more of their HUEG collections at any given time; Apocalypse, adding flyers, huge swinging cuts in points etc etc.
Because of those, Epic didn't really "fade away", it just changed from an actively supported system to a fan-driven one and was utterly ignored by GW. Thing is, Blood Bowl went the same way, and by all accounts the response to GW bringing that back was so emphatically positive it's the reason we have plastic Titans for AT, so while it's technically true to say Epic is a niche-of-a-niche proposition, I'd say the results from two similar resurrections in BB and AT demonstrate the interest - and money - is there if GW want it.
I wouldn't totally discount the epic is cannibalizing 40K sales argument as it was developed during the period when GW was doing market research and looking at their own internal sales data
and not just during Prime Time Kirby when actually knowing facts was seen as heretical
(but the thing is even if some epic players are less inclined to buy more 40K stuff if you carry on expanding Epic you'd have sold them more of that instead so it's not a terribly strong argument as long as you've got the staff and money to invest in running both at the same time)
Fajita Fan wrote: I started 40k in 3rd edition and Epic wasn't sold in stores then IIRC. Can we talk for a minute about why Epic faded away? What held Epic and Warmaster back while Fantasy/40k became way more successful?
I'm just asking because GW needs a real business case for rebooting something that seemed very niche in a niche hobby.
This is going wayback( about the turn of the millenium? ), but I vaguely remember a version of Epic that was introduced and then suddenly disappeared over night. Only GW could shed light on this but from the customer side of things it seemed like they just couldn't be bothered to support the game properly.
That said, the whole "Space Marine" and Epic 40K thing has been kept alive with NetEpic which is still being updated even today. If you haven't got the scale models then there is always DIY tokens or even plasticard with custom flags to indicate the unit type.
Personally, I feel that if the epic scale thing wasn't something GW was confident about then we wouldn't have Titanicus. Necromunda, Space Hulk, Warhammer Quest - even Blood Bowl - can at least claim its miniatures can be reused in regular 40K / AOS, so why risk 8mm with no other product thats compatible? Also this game is expensive compared to GW's other products and even GW knows that £175 was going to ruffle some feathers.
I don't know what form it will take, or when, but I have the feeling GW has another 8mm game in mind...
I could see them adding infantry/vehicles as ”battlefield assets” using stratagem points.
That would give infantry/vehicles a small supporting role in the game, potentially very specialized for a certain task, without distraction from the main titan on titan gameplay.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wouldn't totally discount the epic is cannibalizing 40K sales argument as it was developed during the period when GW was doing market research and looking at their own internal sales data
and not just during Prime Time Kirby when actually knowing facts was seen as heretical
(but the thing is even if some epic players are less inclined to buy more 40K stuff if you carry on expanding Epic you'd have sold them more of that instead so it's not a terribly strong argument as long as you've got the staff and money to invest in running both at the same time)
They might cannibalize SOME sales but would also bring in money they wouldn't get anyway. The games are very different catering for different needs.
Space Marine/Titan Legions became Epic 40,000. That pretty much covers it.
Epic 40,000’s rules just weren’t a patch on Space Marine. All this add up your firepower then check the chart nonsense was rubbish. Sure, it works in BFG, but not in Epic.
While the debate over Epic 40k is interesting and pertinent to AT18 as a game, perhaps it's better suited to the Specialist Games Forum, as this is diverging fairly far from anything resembling a rumor.
There is absolutely no reason to give even one dollar to GW anymore to play Epic. Several other companies make awesome ranges of infantry and vehicles, and several versions of the official complete rulesets are available for free online, whether you want to play the original Epic or Epic Armageddon.
I for one would be more interested in Xenos titans for the existing ruleset.
I meant people should stop pining away about getting GW to bring back Epic. It never left, and there's ten times the material out there than what GW would release in the first years for a new Epic ruleset in their current release style.
It would be better to keep their efforts on producing for Titanicus, so that game keeps going, as there's lots of material still to cover for just titan combat.
schoon wrote: While the debate over Epic 40k is interesting and pertinent to AT18 as a game, perhaps it's better suited to the Specialist Games Forum, as this is diverging fairly far from anything resembling a rumor.
Thats fair play. I guess news is a bit thin at the moment...
AegisGrimm wrote: I meant people should stop pining away about getting GW to bring back Epic. It never left, and there's ten times the material out there than what GW would release in the first years for a new Epic ruleset in their current release style.
It would be better to keep their efforts on producing for Titanicus, so that game keeps going, as there's lots of material still to cover for just titan combat.
To an extent, sure, but some folk do actually place value on the models matching the proper aesthetic. Not kinda-sorta-if you squint match, but actual match. They don't just want Armoured Space Warriors, they want Space Marines in MK2-6 armour, in Rhinos and Land Raiders.
Now, maybe if the Forumware thing wasn't so ridiculously Fight Club about it people wouldn't care so much, but as it stands most of the folk who want proper GW-styled infantry and vehicles(a few exceptions like Vanguard's not-Krieg aside) don't actually have "ten times the material" to choose from.
Future plans for Knights: will be adding more Knights, have ideas for some scenarios/Stratagems for Knight only battles. "20-30 Knights a side." "Andy wishlisting!" [i]
Future plans for Knights: will be adding more Knights, have ideas for some scenarios/Stratagems for Knight only battles. "20-30 Knights a side." "Andy wishlisting!" [i]
Now this one is interesting!
Well, I've got 18 so far. Cute little things are sorta like pokemon. Gotta get 'em all.
Was a little suprised to see that this months WD includes the rules for cerastus knights, basically a page containing images of the front and back of the card, with permission to photocopy.
I was less suprised to see the accompanying article claiming that Castigator Bolt Cannons were great for stripping void shields (even though they're str3 and therefore can't damage void shields).
Mind you, that rule did strike me as a little bit of a bodge when I read the rules, as it's a bit of an exception to the mechanics, that you have to remember. Would have seemed to make more sense to make it a weapon trait "Rubbish against shields" (possibly with a catchier name), as then it would be listed on the weapon card along with other special rules for weapons making it easier to remember, plus it could also then be used to create unusual weapons that are high strength but which can't strip voids (can't think of an example mind).
AegisGrimm wrote: There is absolutely no reason to give even one dollar to GW anymore to play Epic. Several other companies make awesome ranges of infantry and vehicles, and several versions of the official complete rulesets are available for free online, whether you want to play the original Epic or Epic Armageddon.
I for one would be more interested in Xenos titans for the existing ruleset.
Okay dokay. I'll bite. Could you show me where I can buy 6mm models that look like this:
Tavis75 wrote: Was a little suprised to see that this months WD includes the rules for cerastus knights, basically a page containing images of the front and back of the card, with permission to photocopy.
I was less suprised to see the accompanying article claiming that Castigator Bolt Cannons were great for stripping void shields (even though they're str3 and therefore can't damage void shields).
Mind you, that rule did strike me as a little bit of a bodge when I read the rules, as it's a bit of an exception to the mechanics, that you have to remember. Would have seemed to make more sense to make it a weapon trait "Rubbish against shields" (possibly with a catchier name), as then it would be listed on the weapon card along with other special rules for weapons making it easier to remember, plus it could also then be used to create unusual weapons that are high strength but which can't strip voids (can't think of an example mind).
Thats good, that is. I'd rather get the terminal that way than spend £15 on what is mostly Questoris terminals.
I expect the Castigators are on their way too, then?
Mostly qyestoris terminals? 3 lancer, 2 questoris. Since when 40% of contents is mostly...
Need those anyway and photocopy isn't most sturdy so one pack doesn't kill me(especially as I don't buy WD so that's like half the price to be able to photocopy...)
And castigators and acherons seemingly are coming as resin upgrades for the lancer pack. Which brings idea it might be worth magnetizing at least some lancer arms
AegisGrimm wrote: There is absolutely no reason to give even one dollar to GW anymore to play Epic. Several other companies make awesome ranges of infantry and vehicles, and several versions of the official complete rulesets are available for free online, whether you want to play the original Epic or Epic Armageddon.
I for one would be more interested in Xenos titans for the existing ruleset.
Okay dokay. I'll bite. Could you show me where I can buy 6mm models that look like this:
Spoiler:
Or howabout this:
Or even this:
I could show you but I won't. Some research will see you right if you're after 6mm representations of all the things you just mentioned, but you're obviously not going to be finding them as products listed openly on sales websites because GW has lawyers.
Even if you don't know the secret handshakes necessary to be able to acquire some of the above items, there are some extremely good and convincing proxies available from elsewhere, such as Vanguard Miniatures.
tneva82 wrote: Mostly qyestoris terminals? 3 lancer, 2 questoris. Since when 40% of contents is mostly...
Need those anyway and photocopy isn't most sturdy so one pack doesn't kill me(especially as I don't buy WD so that's like half the price to be able to photocopy...)
And castigators and acherons seemingly are coming as resin upgrades for the lancer pack. Which brings idea it might be worth magnetizing at least some lancer arms
Resin cerastus knight? That just means faster Atrapos and Dominus knights for me.
One thing that occurs to me - an interesting way of slowly introducing infantry and vehicles is with the Carapace Landing Pad (for the Warlord and Warmonger Titans) and the Corvus Assault Pod. The Corvus was pretty much a breaching arm transport that contained Terminators though I can imagine a bunch of Robots or Myrmidons charging out. The Carapace landing pad had a single Land Speeder or, for the Warmonger, a Lysander Flyer to act as spotters for indirect fire.
Flyers would at least give something for the Warbringer Titan's AA guns to do when it finally makes it to AT.
tneva82 wrote: Vanquard miniatures don't look at all like those.
And secret you need to know the guy type of deals aren't answer either.
So. Answer was then Aegis was flat out wrong.,
Oh, good god. Even actual 40k epic stuff didnt look like 28mm 40k stuff half the time. For nearly the entire time Epic was available in stores, Land Raiders didn't match the current 28mm model of a Land Raider. Either they were old Rogue Trader versions that weren't being sold in 28mm anymore, or they were the up-armored version that also didnt match the Land Raider when it was rereleased in plastic. Most Ork stuff used vehicles that hadn't existed since Armorcast made resin vehicle models for 2nd edition 40k, like the Spleenrippa.
But this thread should stay for Titans. There are a couple of awesome Epic 40k forums out there.
AegisGrimm wrote: There is absolutely no reason to give even one dollar to GW anymore to play Epic.
Besides the fact that if AT sells well, once GW runs out of remaining Titans/Xeno war machines, the next expansion will be superheavy tanks, then most likely normal tank squadrons, giving you Epic in all but name, with modern, official, good looking plastic minis actually representing the setting without winking?
Or you can keep pirating and wonder why GW discontinues stuff that sells badly, then complain about discontinuations, while praising pirates that done nothing to further the setting but continue to leech money out of someone else's groundwork. Which is not terribly productive but whatever floats your boat.
AegisGrimm wrote: There is absolutely no reason to give even one dollar to GW anymore to play Epic.
Besides the fact that if AT sells well, once GW runs out of remaining Titans/Xeno war machines, the next expansion will be superheavy tanks, then most likely normal tank squadrons, giving you Epic in all but name, with modern, official, good looking plastic minis actually representing the setting without winking?
Or you can keep pirating and wonder why GW discontinues stuff that sells badly, then complain about discontinuations, while praising pirates that done nothing to further the setting but continue to leech money out of someone else's groundwork. Which is not terribly productive but whatever floats your boat.
To be honest I don’t consider 3D printing out-of-production 6mm scale models in 8mm scale for my AT terrain and bases to be pirating.
And to be even more honest I was one of those people who wasn’t terribly interested in an Epic reboot based on AT but if the future titans are going to be as hideous as that Warbringer I think I’ve changed my mind about Epic...
tneva82 wrote: Vanquard miniatures don't look at all like those.
And secret you need to know the guy type of deals aren't answer either.
So. Answer was then Aegis was flat out wrong.,
Oh, good god. Even actual 40k epic stuff didnt look like 28mm 40k stuff half the time. For nearly the entire time Epic was available in stores, Land Raiders didn't match the current 28mm model of a Land Raider. Either they were old Rogue Trader versions that weren't being sold in 28mm anymore, or they were the up-armored version that also didnt match the Land Raider when it was rereleased in plastic. Most Ork stuff used vehicles that hadn't existed since Armorcast made resin vehicle models for 2nd edition 40k, like the Spleenrippa.
But this thread should stay for Titans. There are a couple of awesome Epic 40k forums out there.
Agreed!
However, in the interest of helping out, can you point us in the right direction of these awesome sites?
tneva82 wrote: Vanquard miniatures don't look at all like those.
And secret you need to know the guy type of deals aren't answer either.
So. Answer was then Aegis was flat out wrong.,
You're being pretty obtuse now. You've made the same point, in a glib manner, about 3 times on this page. And you can get little land raiders 3rd party btw, check google.
AegisGrimm wrote: There is absolutely no reason to give even one dollar to GW anymore to play Epic.
Besides the fact that if AT sells well, once GW runs out of remaining Titans/Xeno war machines, the next expansion will be superheavy tanks, then most likely normal tank squadrons, giving you Epic in all but name, with modern, official, good looking plastic minis actually representing the setting without winking?
Or you can keep pirating and wonder why GW discontinues stuff that sells badly, then complain about discontinuations, while praising pirates that done nothing to further the setting but continue to leech money out of someone else's groundwork. Which is not terribly productive but whatever floats your boat.
You really think GW discontinue Epic because of recasters? Whatever floats your boat I guess
A couple weeks back, the esteemed Penddraig of the Heresy 30K forum posted a write-up of the Vigilus open day. He mentioned some AT-related stuff that I didn't see posted here. Apologies if it was.
The Beta-Garmon campaign book is due for release in January and will come along with transfers for the titan Legions involved - although these transfers will take a few months of releases for them to all to come out. This book will also include new maniple types such as the Lupercal Maniple (clearly an uncontroversial name) that includes 5 warhounds - this may jump the queue to my new favourite maniple.
The plastic weapon upgrades sprues for the Warlord and reaver will also be new year releases but no confirmation as to when. They will also be the only weapon upgrades in plastic. All other weapons will be in resin but there was no idea whether that would be individual releases like Contemptor weapons or combined weapon packs like Necromunda. Currently, the quake cannon and gatling blaster for the Warlord are finished and the reaver warp missile rack is being worked on.
Discussion around the Mechanicum questoris knights took place. Specialist Games would like to do them but they are not an immediate plan - likely they would be resin upgrades to the plastic bodies and would have a separate terminal pack to reflect the unusual weapons and ionic-flare shields they carry.
Knight Household special rules are planned for future development.
There are plans for a titan Volkite weapon but this would be a rare relic and limited use within a maniple. Also, no idea yet which class of titan it would be mounted on.
Lupercal maniple! That's all I needed for my Legio Audax. Ursus claws and legio rules would be great and will hopefully come later, but I can wait for those.
General Specialist Games and Battlefleet (sad) news
I had a good chat about releases, future support and future plans. The Specialist Games team were very frank and open.
Games are divided into Tier One and Tier Two. Tier One games are games such as Blood Bowl and Necromunda that will continue to receive releases every three months - that could be models, supplements or gaming tools such as dice. These are the products that bring in the steady revenue and allow the games to grow and develop but also provide the profits to develop new games. However, that means the design team have to continue planning, sculpting and writing these products which reduces the time to develop new games. Currently, the design team is still small and time is divided between the three current specialists games of Bloodbowl, Necro. and AT.
So, how does this affect Battlefleet?
The original intention was to start Battlefleet this year. However... when the team sat down and planned out the resources it would take to get Battlefleet up and running including rules production, designing the classes of ship into CAD, designing counters and all the 'bits' of the game - they realised they would have to pull every member of the Specialist team off every project for the next year. This is due to the small size of the team and the resources they have. Clearly this is not possible if the other released games need continuing support to grow and develop with new releases. This means that currently Battlefleet has been shelved.
But...
Due to the success of all the Specialist Games (the Warlord and Reaver have been two of the most successful kits produced by GW this year) there are plans to increase the size of the Specialist Games team both in designers and rules writers. This will lead to an increased production capability that means that Battlefleet will eventually be worked on but not in the near future.
So, disappointing news but that can be tempered against the idea that the department is expanding and doing very well - possibly better than expected.
Tavis75 wrote: Was a little suprised to see that this months WD includes the rules for cerastus knights, basically a page containing images of the front and back of the card, with permission to photocopy.
SamusDrake wrote: If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.
If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.
If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.
They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.
There is nothing at all stopping anyone from building from their titan collections and playing one of the previous Epic releases. The games rules and miniatures are already there, and they're bloody brilliant fun
I put this guide together in the Special Games section of the forum. I came at it initially form the same angle (didn't know Epic gaming was still about) and was really surprised how active the community is. Hopefully this is of some use! (Although do need to update it with some of the AT stuff)
Toofast wrote: They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.
The word you have omitted, which changes the context somewhat, is "currently",
each time it's brought up they say there are no current plans
That's great news about the success of the game. A larger specialist games studio can only mean good things!
Surprised bfg was already being discussed at all. I figured it would still be about four years away but it seems like it could be coming quite a bit sooner if Titanicus keeps raking in money.
Resin weapons does seem a little bit of a shame but I would rather they focus on getting new models made anyway
As ive said before I think actually going to epic now would be a mistake, partly because its a blackhole of development. No one will be happy until every 40k model is in epic, even though "new epic" would likely be a 30k only thing just for ease of creating it. During talks they mentioned titanicus suffered on its original launch because of epic and the demands of that game preventing them exploring titans as much as they could. Id love epic but id be fine with them leaving it for 2-3 years before doing it, alternatively id be fine with titanicus just expanding to vehicles.
Since both NM and BB have most of their upgrades and special characters in resin, I don't know why anyone would think that everything released for AT would be plastic.
I hazard to guess that a future Imperator titan model would be resin and not plastic.
Tavis75 wrote: Mind you, that rule did strike me as a little bit of a bodge when I read the rules, as it's a bit of an exception to the mechanics, that you have to remember. Would have seemed to make more sense to make it a weapon trait "Rubbish against shields" (possibly with a catchier name), as then it would be listed on the weapon card along with other special rules for weapons making it easier to remember, plus it could also then be used to create unusual weapons that are high strength but which can't strip voids (can't think of an example mind).
Because then they'd need to add that special trait to every single light weapon that makes it into the game. Added a vehicle? All of the light weapons need to be labeled with the trait. Etc...
A blanket "Str 3 or less doesn't hurt shields" is future proofing the game. They can add stuff later on (particularly vehicles) that uses light weapons without having to make a note of it every single time.
gorgon wrote: Since both NM and BB have most of their upgrades and special characters in resin, I don't know why anyone would think that everything released for AT would be plastic.
Yeah but why bother making the second weapon sprue in plastic then? If they would make a third one it would make more sense, since quake cannons and gatling blasters are as common as volcano cannons and plasma guns.
I can definitely see less common weapons such as special close combat weapon and laser cutters being in resin, but staple weapons such as the quake cannon and gatling blaster ought really to be made of plastic too.
At this point, I care a lot less how the weapons are made available than that they be made available as soon as possible. If they're going to go resin and still dripfeed the results out every few months, I'll be pissed, but if going resin(with the associated increase in price and inconvenience) is the cost for getting all the remaining "mainstream"(ie, on existing weapon cards) armaments for the Reaver, Warlord, and Knights out early next year then fine, whatever.
I wonder if they destroyed the plastic BFG cruiser molds, the idea they're going to reCAD the main models means they're changing the scale and my existing fleet with be worthless.
The few games of BFG I got in were some of the most fun I've ever had with a GW game.
I mean, were the originals even made in CAD software? Pretty sure back in those days they were still using 3-ups and that huge mechanical contraption to carve the molds directly.
Changing the scale would be a mistake(unless it's to make it even smaller), BFG is about fleets not a couple of ships. That holds even more true if they set it during the Heresy.
SamusDrake wrote: If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.
If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.
If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.
They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.
There is nothing at all stopping anyone from building from their titan collections and playing one of the previous Epic releases. The games rules and miniatures are already there, and they're bloody brilliant fun
I put this guide together in the Special Games section of the forum. I came at it initially form the same angle (didn't know Epic gaming was still about) and was really surprised how active the community is. Hopefully this is of some use! (Although do need to update it with some of the AT stuff)
I used to have Space Marine 2nd edition and omg it was awesome. Two entire armies, loads of buildings and of course the Warlord Titan. My parents had gone on the advice of the GW customer services on the phone, which was "my son wants replacement parts for Space Crusade...oh...right...then do you have a similar game? I think its Warhammer 40K?" and the numpties said "yeah, no problem, it comes in a big box...and its in the post right now..." and instead we got Space Marine 2nd Edition...
Thankfully, they're more on the ball these days!
Personally I'm using Horizon Wars which isn't perfect but it is simple to learn and a lot of fun. The Hannibal tanks from Drop Zone look quite nice next to the AT Knights! Going forward, I now have 3 Questoris, 2 Cerastus and 2 Warhounds...so the next purchase might be a Reaver or the AT ruleset itself. Then again, I might just wait and see what they do when Titandeath finally drops in the new year...there could just be a big box with that name on it!
Or it could just be a silly hardback book on its Jack-Jones...
Fajita Fan wrote: I wonder if they destroyed the plastic BFG cruiser molds, the idea they're going to reCAD the main models means they're changing the scale and my existing fleet with be worthless.
The few games of BFG I got in were some of the most fun I've ever had with a GW game.
I think they want some new (old?) designs. It's going to be Battlefleet: Heresy, mind you. And I hazard to guess that they would make new models modular in ways that the old ones weren't.
Not to continue flogging Epic on a Titanicus thread, but if anyone wants really cool minis of both infantry and vehicles to decorate bases, not only is there Vanguard Miniatures, but also Onslaught Minis makes absolutely awesome Sisters of Battle, Tau (including Kroot and Vespids) Chaos and Dark Eldar troops and vehicles. Seriously, the Tau especially are spot-on.
While most of those are not Heresy-era if you are keeping your Titans in that era, they are pretty cool for adding scale to make a Warlord or Reaver look truly huge.
I think a game of Epic Armageddon would look absolutely insanely incredible with a new titan or two on the board.
So looking ahead to Titandeath, it sounds like the most awesome battle in the 40K saga only second to the Emperor storming Horus' starbarge( or whatever it was ). Is anyone getting the novel on friday?
Yodhrin wrote: I mean, were the originals even made in CAD software? Pretty sure back in those days they were still using 3-ups and that huge mechanical contraption to carve the molds directly.
Changing the scale would be a mistake(unless it's to make it even smaller), BFG is about fleets not a couple of ships. That holds even more true if they set it during the Heresy.
They were most likely not done in autoCAD but I'm sure they'll change the scale to something bigger to A) make us buy all new stuff and B) make them bigger with more detail a la the new AT stuff.
And for those who don't like talk about Epic in the AT rumor/wishlist thread it's quite relevant as the two system are related and Epic stuff makes great basing material for titans.
Tavis75 wrote: Was a little suprised to see that this months WD includes the rules for cerastus knights, basically a page containing images of the front and back of the card, with permission to photocopy.
This is the December WD?
Yep, the December issue that goes on release this Saturday.
Reaver now only needs carapace and variant weapons, so i can see resin for them.
Warlord, though, could do with one more plastic sprue. Quake cannon, gatling blaster, lucius alpha head, then maybe another new head and a couple carapace mount options.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Reaver now only needs carapace and variant weapons, so i can see resin for them.
Warlord, though, could do with one more plastic sprue. Quake cannon, gatling blaster, lucius alpha head, then maybe another new head and a couple carapace mount options.
Yep, that would be good, maybe with the gatling carapace weapons as well (though that's a lot of gatling if you're running it straight out of the box), as I think the gatling weapons would benefit from being plastic due to the thin barrels.
I can see a sprue having Paired turbo-lasers for the carapace and two Mori Quake Cannons with a Lucius-pattern head as a nod to the 3rd edtion era metal warlord.
And then, what, Paired Gatling Blasters with two Macro-Gatlings for an 'all the dice all the time' Warlord? Which leaves Paired Laser blasters and Vulcan Mega-Bolter Array left on the initial card selection.
On page 31 of the rulebook there is photo art of a Warlord with a Lucius-Alpha pattern head. But it seems to have the same colour scheme as a 40k scale Warlord on the FW website https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Lucius-Alpha-Pattern-Warlord-Titan-Head With the AT kits looking so much like there 40k counterparts its hard to tell them apart.
The battlescapes used as background for the rulebook pages are almost certainly all photos of the 40k models.
The colour plates aren't photographs, so don't necessarily exactly represent the miniatures; they'll have been done by the same people who did the colour plates for the Horus heresy "black books".
I think all of the artwork in the AT rulebook is created with the 28mm titans (not the game examples etc. obviously) as that creates better images, as good as the AT models are they don't have the level of detail of the full size titans and it's easier to photograph the larger models as well I would imagine.
From 4PM (GMT) today, we catch up with Andy Hoare as he discusses the background of Adeptus Titanicus on Warhammer Live, followed by an update with our Four Horus Heresy Warlords and a live battle report too.
If you're a Horus Heresy fan, don't miss this. Watch live for free: twitch.tv/warhammer
Azreal13 wrote: It'd be tangentially relevant at best in an AT thread in Specialist Games. This is specifically the News And Rumours thread for Titanicus.
So it's for news and rumours about Titanicus, and any subsequent discussion generated from them.
Discussion about basing is probably best done in Painting And Modelling.
No one in this thread has any inside sources or knowledge of GW rumors beyond what’s reported on Facebook, the community page, or any events. Let’s not pretend there’s any groundbreaking discussions that will be generated here. No one is going to get any scoops about new titans or rules before they’re announced; it’s pretty clear that GW itself was the source of rumors all these years and now they’ve moved into the open with their upcoming releases. The future of AT and its ecosystem are important to me (with $1k invested so far) and I’ve since moved to the camp who’d like to see an Epic reboot as way to grow AT.
You can ignore my posts any time you like but you do get bonus points for using the word “tangentially.”
Azreal13 wrote: It'd be tangentially relevant at best in an AT thread in Specialist Games. This is specifically the News And Rumours thread for Titanicus.
So it's for news and rumours about Titanicus, and any subsequent discussion generated from them.
Discussion about basing is probably best done in Painting And Modelling.
No one in this thread has any inside sources or knowledge of GW rumors beyond what’s reported on Facebook, the community page, or any events. Let’s not pretend there’s any groundbreaking discussions that will be generated here. No one is going to get any scoops about new titans or rules before they’re announced; it’s pretty clear that GW itself was the source of rumors all these years and now they’ve moved into the open with their upcoming releases. The future of AT and its ecosystem are important to me (with $1k invested so far) and I’ve since moved to the camp who’d like to see an Epic reboot as way to grow AT.
You can ignore my posts any time you like but you do get bonus points for using the word “tangentially.”
To be fair the Epic discussion crops up about once a week on this thread. Far be it for me to object to what's being discussed (I don't like it when people do that), but really, it's the same thing over and over. I know you read this thread regularly. You must have read the same posts on
"Is Epic coming?"
"No I don't think so"
"Oh I think it's very likely cos...."
"Well ok, but when? Surely not for ages"
"Guys it's not happening, they need to focus on AT".
How many of these little discussions do you partake in? Are you not bored of them yet? (I am).
Fajita Fan wrote: It’s doesn’t really bother me, it’s a forum full of nerds talking about plastic models so I don’t mind.
Going over the same old thing over and over irritates me a bit, no matter what the subject. Except when I'm drunk. Then I can talk about the same old gak endlessly and not get bored. I imagine it's annoying though to my conversational partner if they're less drunk than me.
I imagine you get annoyed every time someone mentions prices, codex creep, Matt Ward, autocannon Dreads, the word “meta,” plastic Sisters, and lack of Xenos players.
There are a LOT of topics - in this thread no less - more boring then speculating on if/when Epic might reappear.
These new Titan models will work well for a game of Epic right now - as they're finally scaled 'right' to fit with the rest of the models.
I hope that GW eventually does bring back Epic - it was their best game, and is the best scale to really represent the mass battles that they're often trying to foist on 40K scale models.
Fajita Fan wrote: I imagine you get annoyed every time someone mentions prices, codex creep, Matt Ward, autocannon Dreads, the word “meta,” plastic Sisters, and lack of Xenos players.
No I read pretty much only this thread. I imagine I might get irritated though. Annoyance is too strong an emotion to connect to codex creep (I don't play 40K) or Matt Ward (I read a bit of his BA codex once, it was so badly written it was almost painful, but I just read the fluff, IDK if he was responsible for that). The word "Meta" sometimes irritates me, as do "Viable" and "Protocol", among many others.
SamusDrake wrote: So looking ahead to Titandeath, it sounds like the most awesome battle in the 40K saga only second to the Emperor storming Horus' starbarge( or whatever it was ). Is anyone getting the novel on friday?
Definitely interested. But it looks like a e-book only release for now? Think I might wait for a dead tree version.
SamusDrake wrote: So looking ahead to Titandeath, it sounds like the most awesome battle in the 40K saga only second to the Emperor storming Horus' starbarge( or whatever it was ). Is anyone getting the novel on friday?
Definitely interested. But it looks like a e-book only release for now? Think I might wait for a dead tree version.
Is that waht hardbacks go for these days, or are we paying for permium BL content here? (AKA kindling, unless it's by Abnett or Wraight, or maybe some other BLer has miraculously pulled something worth reading from the air, as they're occasionally known to do).
That's about what hardbacks cost in general. None of Black Library's book prices seem to be particularly out of line with the rest of the industry (special editions aside).
AndrewGPaul wrote: That's about what hardbacks cost in general. None of Black Library's book prices seem to be particularly out of line with the rest of the industry (special editions aside).
Rabenga wrote: So, when do you think GW will re do epic?
We haven't heard a sausage from GW as to whether epic will even make a comeback, let alone when it might.
I think the subject of an Epic come back needs its own thread now, and to keep this one clear for discussion of the game Adeptus Titanicus, because even back in the day it was a stand alone game in its own right...
So there is a hardback version of Titandeath is up for pre order this weekend, not just the e-book. It will be interesting to see if there are any hints about the future of AT in there.
Also does anyone else find the colour scheme for Legio Solaria slightly festive?
Its there Imperator on the Titandeath cover. WoS has a few more exampleshttps://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3379 If it wasn't for the mottled white effect over the green I could have been tempted to give it a go.
I was thinking gay pride rainbow festive...kinda disappointed with Christmas festive...oh well, mabey it's time to start another chapter....the rainbow warriors! (Isn't that already a space marine chapter?)
Rabenga wrote: I was thinking gay pride rainbow festive...kinda disappointed with Christmas festive...oh well, mabey it's time to start another chapter....the rainbow warriors! (Isn't that already a space marine chapter?)
Somehow that brings to mind fellow loyalist titans making facepalm gestures...and the heretics laughing their balls off, taking the piss....
Fajita Fan wrote: I imagine you get annoyed every time someone mentions prices, codex creep, Matt Ward, autocannon Dreads, the word “meta,” plastic Sisters, and lack of Xenos players.
No I read pretty much only this thread. I imagine I might get irritated though. Annoyance is too strong an emotion to connect to codex creep (I don't play 40K) or Matt Ward (I read a bit of his BA codex once, it was so badly written it was almost painful, but I just read the fluff, IDK if he was responsible for that). The word "Meta" sometimes irritates me, as do "Viable" and "Protocol", among many others.
The real question is:
Will there be protocol that's viable within the meta?
Azreal13 wrote: It'd be tangentially relevant at best in an AT thread in Specialist Games. This is specifically the News And Rumours thread for Titanicus.
So it's for news and rumours about Titanicus, and any subsequent discussion generated from them.
Discussion about basing is probably best done in Painting And Modelling.
No one in this thread has any inside sources or knowledge of GW rumors beyond what’s reported on Facebook, the community page, or any events. Let’s not pretend there’s any groundbreaking discussions that will be generated here. No one is going to get any scoops about new titans or rules before they’re announced; it’s pretty clear that GW itself was the source of rumors all these years and now they’ve moved into the open with their upcoming releases. The future of AT and its ecosystem are important to me (with $1k invested so far) and I’ve since moved to the camp who’d like to see an Epic reboot as way to grow AT.
You can ignore my posts any time you like but you do get bonus points for using the word “tangentially.”
To be fair the Epic discussion crops up about once a week on this thread. Far be it for me to object to what's being discussed (I don't like it when people do that), but really, it's the same thing over and over. I know you read this thread regularly. You must have read the same posts on
"Is Epic coming?"
"No I don't think so"
"Oh I think it's very likely cos...."
"Well ok, but when? Surely not for ages"
"Guys it's not happening, they need to focus on AT".
How many of these little discussions do you partake in? Are you not bored of them yet? (I am).
The real thing stopping Epic, rather than it coming down to the will of GW, is how many lines of miniatures would have to be designed and released.
I doubt many of the original moulds have survived from previous versions, and a lot of the designs of things have changed.
Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT - all of these can be re-released with relatively few sculpts and in single boxset that people can pick up and play very quickly.
Epic wasn't a Specialist Game, or a single one-and-done boxset back in the day. It was a 3rd main game alongside 40k and WHFB, and had hundreds of separate releases with as many miniature lines and as much shelf space as either of those games.
So that's why Epic won't be re-released, or if it is, then it won't be on anything like in the same volume as before.
So you're better of just downloading the Epic Armageddon rules for free, picking up some old cheap minis off eBay (or going to someone like Vanguard miniatures) and chucking in a few infantry or tank divisions to use alongside your AT titans
1) I'm really glad it's Guy Haley writing the novel of Titandeath... Dan Abnett would be better, but anyone would be better than David Annandale - "Warlord" was atrocious...
2) So, um, do we have any actual AT or Titandeath news or rumours?
This Epic wish-listing is going a bit (like a lot) OT now...
I don't think we've any rumours at present besides vague "this titan exists in lore/previous editions and thus might be coming". I think the only rumour out there that we've not had any news on is the psywarlord titan sculpt. Otherwise we know there's the upgrade pack for warlords on the horizon and some weapons from FW but other than that nothing.
1) I'm really glad it's Guy Haley writing the novel of Titandeath... Dan Abnett would be better, but anyone would be better than David Annandale - "Warlord" was atrocious...
2) So, um, do we have any actual AT or Titandeath news or rumours?
This Epic wish-listing is going a bit (like a lot) OT now...
I listened to Warlord on YouTube (someone uploaded it, dunno if it’s still there) and I couldn’t finish.
Azreal13 wrote: It'd be tangentially relevant at best in an AT thread in Specialist Games. This is specifically the News And Rumours thread for Titanicus.
So it's for news and rumours about Titanicus, and any subsequent discussion generated from them.
Discussion about basing is probably best done in Painting And Modelling.
No one in this thread has any inside sources or knowledge of GW rumors beyond what’s reported on Facebook, the community page, or any events. Let’s not pretend there’s any groundbreaking discussions that will be generated here. No one is going to get any scoops about new titans or rules before they’re announced; it’s pretty clear that GW itself was the source of rumors all these years and now they’ve moved into the open with their upcoming releases. The future of AT and its ecosystem are important to me (with $1k invested so far) and I’ve since moved to the camp who’d like to see an Epic reboot as way to grow AT.
You can ignore my posts any time you like but you do get bonus points for using the word “tangentially.”
To be fair the Epic discussion crops up about once a week on this thread. Far be it for me to object to what's being discussed (I don't like it when people do that), but really, it's the same thing over and over. I know you read this thread regularly. You must have read the same posts on
"Is Epic coming?"
"No I don't think so"
"Oh I think it's very likely cos...."
"Well ok, but when? Surely not for ages"
"Guys it's not happening, they need to focus on AT".
How many of these little discussions do you partake in? Are you not bored of them yet? (I am).
The real thing stopping Epic, rather than it coming down to the will of GW, is how many lines of miniatures would have to be designed and released.
I doubt many of the original moulds have survived from previous versions, and a lot of the designs of things have changed.
Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT - all of these can be re-released with relatively few sculpts and in single boxset that people can pick up and play very quickly.
Epic wasn't a Specialist Game, or a single one-and-done boxset back in the day. It was a 3rd main game alongside 40k and WHFB, and had hundreds of separate releases with as many miniature lines and as much shelf space as either of those games.
So that's why Epic won't be re-released, or if it is, then it won't be on anything like in the same volume as before.
So you're better of just downloading the Epic Armageddon rules for free, picking up some old cheap minis off eBay (or going to someone like Vanguard miniatures) and chucking in a few infantry or tank divisions to use alongside your AT titans
But there's nothing stopping them going with a version of the original release pattern, which solved that problem then and would also do so now - do Space Marine next(though this time as a direct expansion to AT rather than as a separate game with a "bridging" expansion to link them up). It can continue using the Heresy setting to get away with only producing a single set of sprues for all factions, can be expanded with Chaos-specific stuff once the initial wave of HH Marines are out of the way, and then it would provide a solid platform to add Xenos races for a transition to full Epic.
I find the dripfeed model incredibly frustrating, especially as we bloody well knowGW have the resources to just knock this stuff out but won't in order to minimise the risk to themselves(and it sucks for Xenos-only players in the short term), but if it's the only way they'll do it then it'll have to do.
1) I'm really glad it's Guy Haley writing the novel of Titandeath... Dan Abnett would be better, but anyone would be better than David Annandale - "Warlord" was atrocious...
2) So, um, do we have any actual AT or Titandeath news or rumours?
This Epic wish-listing is going a bit (like a lot) OT now...
Agreed. To be fair, the Blacklibrary Titandeath novel is probably the only news at this point, and seems to be kickstarting the whole AT: TD thing for the new year. Afterall, Blackstone Fortress has a BL novel for its release. I'd say once chrimbo is over we'll see something new for AT.
The 2 other heads from the Lancer kit are of the Acheron and Castigator, look very likely now that they don't have plan to make plastic Acheron and Castigator. So Atrapos is next, hopefully come with all those goofy extra upgrade head.
I think, strictly speaking, they're all Cerastus Knight heads, we just associate them with those variants as that's what the models ship with at full size.
Consequently it's still possible they'll get kits, maybe with some new designs or the previous Alt Cerastus heads, or perhaps a resin upgrade kit.
Chopstick wrote: The 2 other heads from the Lancer kit are of the Acheron and Castigator, look very likely now that they don't have plan to make plastic Acheron and Castigator. So Atrapos is next, hopefully come with all those goofy extra upgrade head.
I wish it was the Acastus Knight instead - that fella is packing some serious firepower!
I doubt many of the original moulds have survived from previous versions, and a lot of the designs of things have changed.
They have tons of moulds from lot older surviving. You think GW has just decided to throw those into garbage bin for fun of it?
Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT - all of these can be re-released with relatively few sculpts and in single boxset that people can pick up and play very quickly.
They could start epic easily with 1 infantry sprue redesigned. That's it. Rest they could actually utilize from previous moulds they have that would give them rhino's, land raiders, predators, dreadnoughts and all sort of other models.
One infantry sprue, rules. That's literally all they would HAVE to design.
Companies do it all the time. Noone could buy the molds for AT-43 and Confrontation age of Rag orok, as right after the Rackham went under they got destroyed.
I highly doubt GW has the molds from any Specialist game still.
Its not like they would use them even if they do still have the moulds. New AT is at a different and internally consistent scale unlike the old Epic lines. Not to mention the old plastic stuff would look pretty sub par compared to the modern models.
For epic in the horus heresy era (where AT is set) they would only have to do marines. That's really not too hard to imagine. A sprue of marines and a rhino chassis would cover a large proportion of the list.
I'm not sure they'd want to do it like they did before, with a sprue containing basically every infantry model that existed. They could if they wanted though. A box of 3 felblades (say) would be roughly equivalent to a warhound box I think.
Not saying they will, or that they should, but it wouldn't be a really massive job.
Also, AT seems to be working as a game. There are only so many titans they can actually make. So what else can they do to milk the system? Marines seem the obvious next choice.
People keep talking about this stuff as if it's a different company. They are departments of GW and even after investing heavily lately GW are still sitting on a Smaug-esque pile of cash, so if SG or FW or anyone else doesn't have the resources to do something it's because the company made a choice not to give them those resources, not because the resources aren't there. And yes, they're doing it to minimise risk which makes sense for them, but what's good for them is not necessarily optimal for us.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Its not like they would use them even if they do still have the moulds. New AT is at a different and internally consistent scale unlike the old Epic lines. Not to mention the old plastic stuff would look pretty sub par compared to the modern models.
The epic armageddon releases look like 40k ones and would be in same 6mm scale.
And again idea that gw throws in some moulds to trash is random theory not supported by evidence. They are pulling old oop models back to sale all the time
Sure, they *could* do a "Space Marine"-style release. But the problem is that the original Epic ended up filling out the various armies. Stuff literally did not exist until Epic added it. Players were content with a gradual roll-out of units because that was the first we'd ever heard of those units (and even then, some of them - such as the Capitol Imperialis - never did get a model). And the fact that those things weren't available in 40K didn't matter because 40K was still much more heavily infantry-focused back then. Even the rules for vehicles hadn't been settled on at that point (anyone else remember the vehicle silhouettes in White Dwarf that you were supposed to use to determine where your shots hit?) But nowadays all of the stuff that was gradually rolled out in Epic has been available in 40K for quite a while. So if the Epic roll-out is Space Marines in Rhinos and Land Raiders, just like the original Epic, people are going to be whining about when they're going to get their Predators, or their Whirlwinds, or their Imperial Guard, or Chimeras, or...
I think you get the picture.
Will they eventually do Epic? I find it likely. But they can't just do a "roll-out the Space Marines, Rhinos, and Land Raiders only" release. That's akin to the "Warlords and Cerastus Knights only" logic that they followed for the AT2018 release, and they've gotten nothing but (well-deserved, imo) grief for that.
Eumerin wrote: Sure, they *could* do a "Space Marine"-style release. But the problem is that the original Epic ended up filling out the various armies. Stuff literally did not exist until Epic added it. Players were content with a gradual roll-out of units because that was the first we'd ever heard of those units (and even then, some of them - such as the Capitol Imperialis - never did get a model). And the fact that those things weren't available in 40K didn't matter because 40K was still much more heavily infantry-focused back then. Even the rules for vehicles hadn't been settled on at that point (anyone else remember the vehicle silhouettes in White Dwarf that you were supposed to use to determine where your shots hit?) But nowadays all of the stuff that was gradually rolled out in Epic has been available in 40K for quite a while. So if the Epic roll-out is Space Marines in Rhinos and Land Raiders, just like the original Epic, people are going to be whining about when they're going to get their Predators, or their Whirlwinds, or their Imperial Guard, or Chimeras, or...
I think you get the picture.
Will they eventually do Epic? I find it likely. But they can't just do a "roll-out the Space Marines, Rhinos, and Land Raiders only" release. That's akin to the "Warlords and Cerastus Knights only" logic that they followed for the AT2018 release, and they've gotten nothing but (well-deserved, imo) grief for that.
I want AT to stay focused on the titans. Adding infantry and most vehicles would dilute it, to the point where they become the focus, with titans simplified to fit.
There are some vehicles that it would be cool to see, however. Ordinatus have potential, as do detachments of things like Shadowswords, which in turn would give more uses for knights to hunt down these glass cannon type units.
Given the fairly steady rate of releases for SG I think there is a good chance that they have enough models planned to take them well into 2020.
We know next year there is a 2nd Reaver set on its way, as well as a separate release for the newest Warlords weapon sprue. After that here is the possibility of a third Warlord and Reaver, and separate releases for all the other weapon sprues as well.
Once the three classic engines are done then they can move onto the talked about "in between" types. We have already seen the first with the 40k scale Warbringer Nemesis. That adds at least three new engines along side Nemesis versions of both the new and existing types. Depending on the weapon compatibility they could double the amount of Titan kits for the game.
On top of all that the studio is(according to the last stream) looking at proper Choas Titans. There is the possibility of more new types of Titan as well as other variants. Not to mention the Imperator being the god engine in the room anytime GW talks about the game,and that's all without mentioning Knights and Xenos
Wether they come in GW plastic or FW resin it is IMO going to be a few years before they run out of little big stompy robots.
Honestly they can just keep going. The Imperial line of titans and knights can just be continually expanded upon; whilst that also means for each Imperial you get at least one chaos equivalent plus demonic versions that are twisted monsters of their own.
The Xenos had less titans traditionally, but then they were never a huge focus and most of their titans came along with the original Epic so they were support rather than a primary focus of a whole game. I'm very sure that, given investment and time, they can churn out dozens of Eldar, Ork, Tyranid, Necron and perhaps one Tau titan
As soon as they release weapons sprues individually and start releasing other races titans, I will buy. I don't really care if a Reaver can kill another Reaver etc. I do want to see how a Phantom Titan takes on a Bio-Titan or an Emperor Titan
If Titandeath is at the end of the Horus Heresy, and the largest Titan battle fought, then GW will only have other races to left to explore.
Eldar and Orks being the obvious candidates. And lets face it, not every player's taste is the Imperium nor Chaos. Dammit! I am a 'Nid player! Unleash the swarm I say! Nom-nom-nom!
There's a relevant question as to how non-Imperial Titans fit into the game they've constructed though. I'm not sure how Tyranids would work, or what value they'd bring to the table.
Uh? Tyranid Titans are absurdly fast (though not hyper-agile like Eldar) and way more close combat focused than even Orks, though they do have decent guns. Plus they regenerate rather than use heavy shielding, and so on.
Thus they are a totally different tactical proposition to anyone else.
You might as well ask what value Tyranids bring to 40k as a game…
My issue with Tyranids in Adeptus Titanicus specifically is ‘but where are all the little guys?’.
It’s purely a visual thing, and not really a solid reason for exclusion, but background wise I just can’t see Bio-Titans operating without the rest of the Swarm.
Ork Gargants have more crude command & control than Imperial titans (rather than issuing Advance, First Fire or Charge orders as Imperial or Eldar titans did, Orks issued a speed and direction order, making htem more cumbersome to manoeuvre). They had more shields but couldn't repair downed shields, and had no weak points such as the plasma reactor or head - you just had to pile on sufficient critical damage to get the thing to stop. They also had unique weapons such as the belly gun's chainshot ammo - excellent fro one-shot-killing an unshielded titan, as you whip its legs out from under it.
Eldar were controlled much like Imperial titans, but were faster. Rather than void shields their save depends on how fast they moved in the previous turn, and provided minimal protection from blast weapons (that'd need tweaking, as otherwise volcano cannon rather than saturation missile barrages or gatling blaster salvoes would be the anti-Eldar weapon of choice)
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: My issue with Tyranids in Adeptus Titanicus specifically is ‘but where are all the little guys?’.
It’s purely a visual thing, and not really a solid reason for exclusion, but background wise I just can’t see Bio-Titans operating without the rest of the Swarm.
The ground within x" of a bio-titan is considered dangerous terrain, due to the presence of swarms of tyranid infantry attacking other titans' feet and legs. On the other hand, by the time of the 41s millennium, Imperial titans aren't usually operating on their own either.
I'd be more curious what they do with scale should they get around to Tyranids. In the original Epic Hierodules were Warhound-sized while Hierophants were on par with a warlord. Their current 40k incarnations are more like Knights & Warhounds respectively. An official Hydraphant would sure be interesting.
Mr_Rose wrote: Uh? Tyranid Titans are absurdly fast (though not hyper-agile like Eldar) and way more close combat focused than even Orks, though they do have decent guns. Plus they regenerate rather than use heavy shielding, and so on.
Thus they are a totally different tactical proposition to anyone else.
You might as well ask what value Tyranids bring to 40k as a game…
I'm thinking more mechanically how they'd fit into the space that AT18 lays out. I mean "hyper-agile" or whatever is a nice gloss, but it's not really as precise as saying, for example, that Tyranid and Eldar Titans would move like Knights, or follow the Knight rules for movement. I mean, I get what people want, but the hard part is making that work within the game rules.
Eldar could get the classic ‘move, shoot, move’ thats often been their thing (well, Man’O’War and BFG), or just plain old greater manouvering. For instance, being able to split their allowed turns, so they can nip round corners with greater grace.
One thing Eldar would need is Weapons better suited to stripping shields. Pulse Lasers are their best option, but with how Shields now work, would need significantly more shots to be effective. Everything else they’ve got tends to be geared toward powerful one shot kills. Especially the Psycannon against MIUs (hard to be effective when they just boiled your crew’s brains).
Orks? Much easier. Course plotting in advance as noted, and general lack of decaying damage / reactor overheat.
Tyranids? Well, perhaps some kind of boarding rules, so you can hit an enemy Titan with say, a boarding spike or nasty spore delivery thing, and let the contents slowly chip away at them from the inside (or very quickly, if you just injected frenzied Genestealer into their superstructure).
The main thing is that not everyone needs a Warlord equivalent, or indeed representation in each broad class
GoatboyBeta wrote: Given the fairly steady rate of releases for SG I think there is a good chance that they have enough models planned to take them well into 2020.
We know next year there is a 2nd Reaver set on its way, as well as a separate release for the newest Warlords weapon sprue. After that here is the possibility of a third Warlord and Reaver, and separate releases for all the other weapon sprues as well.
Once the three classic engines are done then they can move onto the talked about "in between" types. We have already seen the first with the 40k scale Warbringer Nemesis. That adds at least three new engines along side Nemesis versions of both the new and existing types. Depending on the weapon compatibility they could double the amount of Titan kits for the game.
The Rapier class -- a scout Titan smaller than a Warhound and possibly the predecessor to the old Slaaneshi titans -- is mentioned in Titandeath. Also don't forget about variants like Ordo Sinister.
They have a LOT more they can mine before they get to xenos. People who want xenos should probably get busy modding, because they're going to be waiting a while IMO.
Eldar- Titans have no arc/move like imperial knights, have half the amount of armour and hull points so are fragile, but either get better starting shield saves, or come with a 4+ void set but always have a 5-6+ chance to dodge shots. Fast, most titans are around warhound speed
Tyranids- No voids, titans are smaller on average (hide more easily) instead of voids they get a combination of 2x amount of hull, and naturally regen those hull points naturally, maybe some corrosion gimick on their guns, they ignore difficult terrain, and can maybe climb some buildings. I think they would work best with maybe getting the only flying titans, and alot of monsters at just below knight size, this would give a target for strength 3 guns and the inferno guns to be good against .
Orks- Worse void shields but large hull point value but lower armour value (weaker guns damage them easily but takes way more shots) but have the old ramshackle rule where you might have hit something non vital/they hold together better than they should, this could be basically a fnp against crits. Huge amount of low strength guns + CC, pretty slow and huge gretchin crews for repairs
For future/split of imperium and chaos titans
-Chaos get mutations, marks of chaos gods and maybe some mini greater daemons that work like knights
-imperium get access to mechanicum knights+ some experimental guns. To make up for lack of variety that chaos will get they might get access to crew and armour improvements to represent disciplined veterans.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Given the fairly steady rate of releases for SG I think there is a good chance that they have enough models planned to take them well into 2020.
We know next year there is a 2nd Reaver set on its way, as well as a separate release for the newest Warlords weapon sprue. After that here is the possibility of a third Warlord and Reaver, and separate releases for all the other weapon sprues as well.
Once the three classic engines are done then they can move onto the talked about "in between" types. We have already seen the first with the 40k scale Warbringer Nemesis. That adds at least three new engines along side Nemesis versions of both the new and existing types. Depending on the weapon compatibility they could double the amount of Titan kits for the game.
The Rapier class -- a scout Titan smaller than a Warhound and possibly the predecessor to the old Slaaneshi titans -- is mentioned in Titandeath. Also don't forget about variants like Ordo Sinister.
They have a LOT more they can mine before they get to xenos. People who want xenos should probably get busy modding, because they're going to be waiting a while IMO.
There is mention of "Codex Titanicus II" in the original Epic Space Marine rulebook from 1989. A long while back, someone on Warseer (I forget who) managed to tease out some info during a Games Day of some Titan classes that were to make an appearance in Codex Titanicus 2:
Atlas Class Titan - a testbed Titan used by the Diviso Investigatus for testing new technologies
Legatus Class Command Titan
Vulcan Class Labour Titan
No idea how true these are or whether they'll make an appearance, but it infers they've probably got a few ideas for different Titan classes sat in dusty boxes...
This [Legatus] Titan would have had heavier armor, a better engine, and a dedicated command center where you could have put your Titan Legion Grand Master, Space Marine Chapter Master or Imperial Guard Colonel to direct the battle. It was supposed to give bonuses in command radius and other benefits to your army. Kinda similar to the Capitol Imperialis in Epic.
As for the Atlas, I disagree. Most forge worlds would certainly be powerful enough to have one or two, Mars probably has a legion of them, but the very largest of the forge worlds such as Hydraphur or Bakka might also have a legion of them too.
As for the Vulcan, as far as I understood the conversation, it never got out of the concept stage. My personnal take on it (so take it with a grain of salt)
would be that the Titan would have lots of close combat weapons such as wrecking balls or diggers and be able to transport troops (workers) through the ash and chemical wastelands on forge worlds.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Eldar could get the classic ‘move, shoot, move’ thats often been their thing (well, Man’O’War and BFG), or just plain old greater manouvering. For instance, being able to split their allowed turns, so they can nip round corners with greater grace.
One thing Eldar would need is Weapons better suited to stripping shields. Pulse Lasers are their best option, but with how Shields now work, would need significantly more shots to be effective. Everything else they’ve got tends to be geared toward powerful one shot kills. Especially the Psycannon against MIUs (hard to be effective when they just boiled your crew’s brains).
Orks? Much easier. Course plotting in advance as noted, and general lack of decaying damage / reactor overheat.
Tyranids? Well, perhaps some kind of boarding rules, so you can hit an enemy Titan with say, a boarding spike or nasty spore delivery thing, and let the contents slowly chip away at them from the inside (or very quickly, if you just injected frenzied Genestealer into their superstructure).
The main thing is that not everyone needs a Warlord equivalent, or indeed representation in each broad class
I could see vibro-cannons ignoring shields and targeting the legs, and don't forget the wing-mounted missile launchers. Plus, Forge World added a honkin' great sword (tm), so I'm sure there's more things they could add. some sort of giant web spinner (something added to the Eldar arsenal long after the Phantom titan model and all its arms were sculpted), or a crystal prism cannon with multiple fire modes?
I could see Tyranid weapons causing lasting effects due to corrosive fluids or infesting the target titan with Rippers and suchlike - something that reduces armour values on the affected location or reduces the number of Servitor Clades available? Also, assuming we see psi-titans before Tyranids, the Shadow in the Warp could be a thing for them.
I'll bet money we'll see inter class Imperial titans before we see anything else. So <Warhound, between Warhound and Reaver, we already have Warbringer between Reaver and Warlord, and possibly between Warlord and Imperator, as well as the possibility of an Imperator itself.
There already seems to be a progression we can infer from the Warbringer too, so we'd have
- Light Chassis with 1 Warhound Class weapon
- Warhound
- Light/Medium Chassis with 2 Warhound and 1 Reaver Class Weapon
- Reaver
- Warbringer
- Warlord
- Heavy/Super Heavy Chassis with 2 Warlord and 1 or 2 Imperator class weapons.
- Imperator.
Plus specialist variants within class and weapons and non-weapon upgrades.
zedmeister wrote: There is mention of "Codex Titanicus II" in the original Epic Space Marine rulebook from 1989. A long while back, someone on Warseer (I forget who) managed to tease out some info during a Games Day of some Titan classes that were to make an appearance in Codex Titanicus 2:
Atlas Class Titan - a testbed Titan used by the Diviso Investigatus for testing new technologies
Legatus Class Command Titan
Vulcan Class Labour Titan
No idea how true these are or whether they'll make an appearance, but it infers they've probably got a few ideas for different Titan classes sat in dusty boxes...
- Warhound
- Light/Medium Chassis with 2 Warhound and 1 Reaver Class Weapon
- Reaver
Pretty good list, but aren't all the available Warhound weapons already Reaver weapons?
Nope, Reaver has neither plasma nor inferno cannon. The point here was probably somewhat similar setting that the Warbringer has, aka it would be a chassis that is lighter than the Reaver but could have one of its heavier weapons, like melta or volcano cannon. A mobile rocket support would also be pretty baller.
- Warhound
- Light/Medium Chassis with 2 Warhound and 1 Reaver Class Weapon
- Reaver
Pretty good list, but aren't all the available Warhound weapons already Reaver weapons?
Warhound class weapons can be taken as carapace mounts on reavers but reaver arms can carry weapons like the Gatling blaster and volcano cannon that are unavailable to Warhounds so that intermediate class would potentially have a pair of turbolasers in the arms and a volcano cannon on the carapace mount.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or simply a single battle titan-class weapon mounted on the hull, with no arms (or mounting something like Questoris weapons for close defense).
Can't really see the point of this. A mini Reaver with one Reaver weapon.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or simply a single battle titan-class weapon mounted on the hull, with no arms (or mounting something like Questoris weapons for close defense).
Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
- Warhound
- Light/Medium Chassis with 2 Warhound and 1 Reaver Class Weapon
- Reaver
Pretty good list, but aren't all the available Warhound weapons already Reaver weapons?
Nope, Reaver has neither plasma nor inferno cannon. The point here was probably somewhat similar setting that the Warbringer has, aka it would be a chassis that is lighter than the Reaver but could have one of its heavier weapons, like melta or volcano cannon. A mobile rocket support would also be pretty baller.
Huh!
Either things have changed (maybe!) or my memory is playing tricks on me (more likely!) - wasn't the Reaver able to field those weapons back in SM/TL days?
I love the idea of a Labour Titan. I wrote up a story about an Explorator Titan a while ago, with the notion of it being like a Warlord but reinforced for longe-range exploration of a planet's surface.
I like the idea of a dedicated sniper style Titan. More of a two arm’s for one weapon configuration like a tau broadside with the weapon being huge obviously, a class or two above it’s size.
It would have a good place in between a warhound and reaver. Small enough to be able to hide in dense terrain but able to pack a big enough punch to take out something well above it’s weight, especially with some warhounds harassing from close to bring down shields.
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Nurglitch wrote: I love the idea of a Labour Titan. I wrote up a story about an Explorator Titan a while ago, with the notion of it being like a Warlord but reinforced for longe-range exploration of a planet's surface.
What do we mean by labour Titan? Like a loader/builder of some sorts? A recovery Titan would be cool, there’s the story of the two psi-titans recovering the remains of the third that was destroyed in that Eldar story, and whilst they had claws/fists each I wondered how they would actually do that practically? It’s not as if they seem able to kneel down or hinge at the hip with enough ROM
Either things have changed (maybe!) or my memory is playing tricks on me (more likely!) - wasn't the Reaver able to field those weapons back in SM/TL days?
Yeah the old metal Reavers and Warhounds shared nearly all the same weapons. The exceptions being the missile pod and close combat arms that were Reaver only. IIRC the Reaver could also mount the ranged weapons on any of its three hardpoints.
Saw Mortal Engines this afternoon. I think "London" and the smaller towns should be in Adeptus Titanicus...
Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
I think they would have something almost as awesome as the big robot-spaceship from Macross/Robotech...
Yeah the old metal Reavers and Warhounds shared nearly all the same weapons. The exceptions being the missile pod and close combat arms that were Reaver only. IIRC the Reaver could also mount the ranged weapons on any of its three hardpoints.
Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
That ship sailed ages ago and the lore bit you mention is dead since abomination that was 6th edition Tau book:
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or simply a single battle titan-class weapon mounted on the hull, with no arms (or mounting something like Questoris weapons for close defense).
Can't really see the point of this. A mini Reaver with one Reaver weapon.
Well plenty of SPAT's in WW2 were modified hulls with reduced stuff to mount one big AT gun. And also weapons don't have to be carbon copy of reaver weapons. Like the new warbringer whose quake cannon isn't just warlords quake cannon but actually indirect artirelly. So we could have:
a) titan that is faster/more manouvarable than reaver
b) cheaper in points(it mounts less weapons for one plus hull would be between warhound+reaver)
c) as it has only one gun you could make point for reactor being able to power it better so maybe 5" blast or S11? Ability to trade point of S for extra shot?
I can see use for cheap, fast titan with big gun that's better than reaver could mount.
Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
That ship sailed ages ago and the lore bit you mention is dead since abomination that was 6th edition Tau book:
Well they could still keep tau to castellan knight level with that and not have bigger than that. So tau wouldn't still have titans as such. Albeit that would remove that faction from AT all together or FW needs to come up with airplane vs titan rules.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: What do we mean by labour Titan? Like a loader/builder of some sorts? A recovery Titan would be cool, there’s the story of the two psi-titans recovering the remains of the third that was destroyed in that Eldar story, and whilst they had claws/fists each I wondered how they would actually do that practically? It’s not as if they seem able to kneel down or hinge at the hip with enough ROM
I picture this as a massive mobile crane of sorts that's literally used to build hab blocks.
Of course, it could also be used to recover other Titans, but I've never heard reference to anything like that.
Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
That ship sailed ages ago and the lore bit you mention is dead since abomination that was 6th edition Tau book:
Well, comparing, the Ta'unar is knight-sized (not even as big as a warhound), so they've bent but not broken that just yet.
Though, as tneva82 mentioned, it might be more appropriate if the Tau got some hover/antigrav flyers - maybe a Manta or something similar to the Super X from the Godzilla movies.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or simply a single battle titan-class weapon mounted on the hull, with no arms (or mounting something like Questoris weapons for close defense).
This but in Titan size
More like this:
Spoiler:
but with a single large weapon instead of the two tormentor cannons.
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Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
Until we got the Riptide, the Tau were described as using aircraft in the sort of assault role that Imperial battle Titans are intended for - the Manta to deliver large amounts of firepower (in the form of infantry, battlesuits, drones and tanks) or specialised planes such as the AX-1-0 Tiger Shark to attack titans themselves. I'd like to see Tau as part of a relaunch of Aeronautica Imperialis as an expansion or companion to Adeptus Titanicus.
What is interesting is the concept of Desperation amongst the Legio Titanicus.
Warlord, Reaver and Warhound are all tried and trusted. They do well in their allotted roles, so are most favoured. But what about ones held in Mothballs? Those that have their quirks which relegate them to 'second or third tier' in the eyes of Princeps? When you're down to Victory Or Extinction, you hoy everything you've got into the fray.
Test beds, relics, developmental dead ends. All would've been pressed back into service, such was the scale of the Heresy. Heck, even resource intensive 'objectively better than' Titans, which lost favour due to taking two or three times the time and resources to build compared to The Big Three.
One thing Eldar would need is Weapons better suited to stripping shields. Pulse Lasers are their best option, but with how Shields now work, would need significantly more shots to be effective. Everything else they’ve got tends to be geared toward powerful one shot kills. Especially the Psycannon against MIUs (hard to be effective when they just boiled your crew’s brains).
Eldar Titans would be pretty easy to sort out. The Pulsars would have Shieldbane always on, the Phantoms D-Bombard would have the currently unused Vortex special rule (and would quite rightly be the scariest weapon in the game), the Vibro Cannon would be a flamer with the Concussive and/or Quake rules whilst the Cloudburst Missile Launcher would be effectively the same as the Apocalypse Missile Launcher. The only thing I'd really see as a difficulty to sort out is their Holofieds, since they work very differently to Void Shields, though I can see them being similar to Knights Ion Shields.
I don't remember the tremor cannon being short ranged. It'd be good if they got their rule for multiple attacks against the same target increasing the damage like they had in 2nd edition.
Tremor Cannon had a huge range, and hit everything in it's straight line path. Expanding the 'stray shot mechanic would work I think.
They seem to like 'homages' to old rules so a 4+ save for the holofields, with a 3+ on Charge orders and a 5+ on First Fire, and weaker armour. How they make the reactor more eldary, I don't know. Maybe it doesn't have a 'red' level.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Tremor Cannon had a huge range, and hit everything in it's straight line path. Expanding the 'stray shot mechanic would work I think.
They seem to like 'homages' to old rules so a 4+ save for the holofields, with a 3+ on Charge orders and a 5+ on First Fire, and weaker armour. How they make the reactor more eldary, I don't know. Maybe it doesn't have a 'red' level.
Simple; it’s not a “reactor” it’s a “spirit circuit” and is used for repairs and maybe extraordinary feats exclusive to the Eldar. Eldar Titans are after all not so crude as to require manual redistribution of power, nor do they have to deliberately under-perform to prevent themselves exploding.
Eldar Titans should function well without pushing. Pushing should be quite spectacular. But as it's literally the Pilot pushing their own mind, far riskier. Game winning in intensity, game ending in risk.
If Imperial titans behave kinda like battleship engagements, then Eldar should be like submarines - stealthy, able to position themselves unpredictably but fragile if caught.
The rules in the iceworld narrative scenario are probably a good place to look for inspiration for holofields.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Eldar Titans should function well without pushing. Pushing should be quite spectacular. But as it's literally the Pilot pushing their own mind, far riskier. Game winning in intensity, game ending in risk.
Alternately, pushing makes it more likely that the implanted spirit stones take over in a manner similar to what the machine spirit sometimes does in the Imperial Titans.
I could see eldar titans having no heat/reactor dice or machine spirit take over but instead have some form of concentration/circuit stability thing which would likely work similar but instead of random heat you spend concentration on actions, like say you get 6 on a titan, recover 1 a turn, it costs 2 use orders for move move or increasing shields. So its not random for eldar but they can be overloaded mentally from the strain of doing too much action.
But for Titandeath im kinda hoping we get 1-2 new titans listed for maniples
1-All hounds- likely gets some form of scouting movement or maniple could give access to ursus claws
2-"artillery maniple" 3 warbringers 2 warlords- even more gunline focused than Myrmidon
3- 2 reavers 2 hounds 1 warbringer- a simple maniple like axiom
4- Super light maniple- 3 hounds 2 of the rapier titans mentioned before- maybe gives access to outflank
5-2 warbringers - 3 hounds as some sort of spotting based groups, like warhounds work like the gryphonicus upgrade letting warbringers use hounds to either measure, or let the warbringers shoot at things out of line of sight aslong as hounds have sight
Eldar would probably get a lance weapon rule where they don't need more than like a 10+ for a direct hit. I was looking at Eldar 40k models at the store today and figured Wraithguard would make good Wraithknight proxies (using the rules for Cerastus Knights) and a Wraithlord would make a good Revenant (similar to a Warhound). I wish there was a model between a Wraithlord and Wraithknight to proxy as a match for a Reaver.
Eldar would likely be fairly fast, good shields and somewhat fragile. A bit of a glass cannon in that they can hit very hard but lack overall durability once exposed and caught.
Orks would be a good generalist brawler/skirmisher. Happy at range or close combat but not necessarily excelling in either on their own. They might have some powerful overcharge abilities which might feel broken or overpowered, but come with a higher degree of personal risk to use.
Tyranids would likely be fast to attack and have relatively low reliance on synapse since we are talking titans not grunt troops. They might well favour close combat weapons and might also have cheaper titans and thus be able to field more of them.
Tau would be the supreme ranged faction, most at home blasting away but most at risk with being hit in close combat. They might or might not be highly mobile; I would err on them not being all that mobile by and large. Able to dish out a lot of pain, but at risk of being more easily flanked and hit closer or just out manoeuvred.
Overread wrote: Eldar would likely be fairly fast, good shields and somewhat fragile. A bit of a glass cannon in that they can hit very hard but lack overall durability once exposed and caught.
Orks would be a good generalist brawler/skirmisher. Happy at range or close combat but not necessarily excelling in either on their own. They might have some powerful overcharge abilities which might feel broken or overpowered, but come with a higher degree of personal risk to use.
Tyranids would likely be fast to attack and have relatively low reliance on synapse since we are talking titans not grunt troops. They might well favour close combat weapons and might also have cheaper titans and thus be able to field more of them.
Tau would be the supreme ranged faction, most at home blasting away but most at risk with being hit in close combat. They might or might not be highly mobile; I would err on them not being all that mobile by and large. Able to dish out a lot of pain, but at risk of being more easily flanked and hit closer or just out manoeuvred.
Don't forget the Necrons...
Whatever they were to get is all but guaranteed to be very very nasty...
IIRC, the current official lore on the Dark Eldar is that they don't have anything that big. They're raiders, and titans don't exactly fit with their "get in, hit fast, and get out" tactics. But that can always change.
They probably do have things that fight in the Titan weight class, but they won’t be ‘Titans’ – think massive versions of their barges, holding hundreds of troops and thousands of captives, fitted with all the firepower a race capable of making a 2D bomb just to decapitate people can muster.
I’m thinking fast like craftworlders but not really built for turning corners. Has 360° fire arcs to compensate. Or at least weapon coverage in all sectors. Mostly focused on suppression and resource acquisition, so relatively low strength guns but with lots of side effects or special effects. Haywire, with effects similar to warp missiles except not ignoring shields and much shorter ranged, would be a staple, but concussion and quake can get in there too...
Mr_Rose wrote: They probably do have things that fight in the Titan weight class, but they won’t be ‘Titans’ – think massive versions of their barges, holding hundreds of troops and thousands of captives, fitted with all the firepower a race capable of making a 2D bomb just to decapitate people can muster.
I’m thinking fast like craftworlders but not really built for turning corners. Has 360° fire arcs to compensate. Or at least weapon coverage in all sectors. Mostly focused on suppression and resource acquisition, so relatively low strength guns but with lots of side effects or special effects. Haywire, with effects similar to warp missiles except not ignoring shields and much shorter ranged, would be a staple, but concussion and quake can get in there too...
Lore-wise, if the Dark Eldar ever go up against something that's defended heavily enough that there are titans among the defenders, then something has gone very, very wrong for the Dark Eldar.
Or there's something insanely important that the Dark Eldar are trying to get their hands on, and there is NO other way to do so. Dark Eldar raids are business ventures of a sort (piratical business ventures, mind you). And business ventures are all about maximizing profits while minimizing expenses. Going up against titans tends to dramatically increase the expenses.
In the original background, the Eldar titan clans were a separate society to the main Craftworld societies. They were based on Craftworlds, but separate in their organisation. With a bit of tweaking, I could see some of those clans being aligned to the different Kabals (or just independent, allying with Craftworlds, Exodites and Drukhari as they wish).
AndrewGPaul wrote: I don't remember the tremor cannon being short ranged. It'd be good if they got their rule for multiple attacks against the same target increasing the damage like they had in 2nd edition.
The Sonic Lance (not Vibro Cannon as I previously called it, thats the support battery in 40K) has been a template weapon for some years now. Given that the fluff has changed quite a bit in the 20 years or so since Epic was last a thing it might not be the best of ideas to draw on such old sources that may well have been retconned some time ago.
It was Forge World who made the Sonic Lance what it is, they can always change it back.
Also, the Sonic Lance appears to be specifically the weapon used by the Revenant; still room to make the Phantom's tremor cannon a different thing.
I'm not particularly bothered one way or the other, but the old material has been the inspiration for a lot of Necromunda and Adeptus Titanicus, so we shall see ...
Eumerin wrote: Lore-wise, if the Dark Eldar ever go up against something that's defended heavily enough that there are titans among the defenders, then something has gone very, very wrong for the Dark Eldar.
While that is true, that is also not to say it doesn’t/hasn’t/can’t happen. Or that DE don’t have vehicles of the appropriate weight class; after all they do occasionally kidnap populations of millions in one go, frequently without direct access to a webway gate.
AndrewGPaul wrote: In the original background, the Eldar titan clans were a separate society to the main Craftworld societies. They were based on Craftworlds, but separate in their organisation. With a bit of tweaking, I could see some of those clans being aligned to the different Kabals (or just independent, allying with Craftworlds, Exodites and Drukhari as they wish).
I don't remember the details on the Phantoms. But the Eldar Knights were all from Exodite worlds, and therefore separate from the Craftworld armies that they were supporting by default in Epic.
Of course, the Imperial Knights of that game era were supposed to be used by humans colonists who lived in similar environments to the Exodites. I haven't kept up on the knight fluff, so I don't know how accurate that is these days.
AndrewGPaul wrote: In the original background, the Eldar titan clans were a separate society to the main Craftworld societies. They were based on Craftworlds, but separate in their organisation. With a bit of tweaking, I could see some of those clans being aligned to the different Kabals (or just independent, allying with Craftworlds, Exodites and Drukhari as they wish).
I don't remember the details on the Phantoms. But the Eldar Knights were all from Exodite worlds, and therefore separate from the Craftworld armies that they were supporting by default in Epic.
Of course, the Imperial Knights of that game era were supposed to be used by humans colonists who lived in similar environments to the Exodites. I haven't kept up on the knight fluff, so I don't know how accurate that is these days.
That’s still… mostly true. Knight Worlds are generally feudal/high-medieval in tone, with native megafauna big enough that Knights and Armigers are the only practical mounts for herding them. The resident humans maintain a tech level which is relatively backwards compared to the greater Imperium, excepting the Knights (owned by the nobility of course) which have an entire caste of hereditary technicians to maintain them. Depending on their alliance with either the Adeptus Mechanicus or the Adeptus Terra, the individual Knight Worlds may have different technologies and attitudes but their general position is pastoral farmer turned up to eleven, with chainsaws and giant mecha, supplying food to their allies as well as fighting alongside them, in exchange for the materiel and training to maintain their current lifestyles.
The only real change (or at least, it's not mentioned; not contradicted, so it could still be a thing if you want) is that human and elder Knight houses / clans often shared planets - the Knight suits were as much for fighting off uppity aliens as for wrangling dinosaurs.
I suppose the idea that the Imperial Guard sentinel is derived from the lighter vehicles used by the human peasantry on knight worlds is something else that's gone. Replaced by Armigers.
Eldar titans are (or were, back in the golden age of Codex Titanicus) run by families, with the ancestors of the current three man crew inhabiting the spirit circuit. As I remember it anyway.
IIRC Imperial Armour: Doom of Mymaera has both Revenant and Phantom titans piloted by a single individual. They're basically a Warrior Aspect, with Phantom pilots being Exarchs.
I suppose the idea that the Imperial Guard sentinel is derived from the lighter vehicles used by the human peasantry on knight worlds is something else that's gone. Replaced by Armigers.
They need fast moving unit to keep up with the knights and help with the flank, the Sentinel or even a Skiktarii dragoon move like a sloth compared to an Armiger
Stormonu wrote: Out of the Xenos, I’m curious to see what they would do for Tau, as their original fluff had them abhorring Titans as being too specialized (i.e., big) for practical use. It’d be interesting if they kept that ideal, with battle suits no larger than Knights, but hitting well above their size class (especially if attacking in tandem, like the old Eldar Fire Prism tanks).
That ship sailed ages ago and the lore bit you mention is dead since abomination that was 6th edition Tau book:
Well, comparing, the Ta'unar is knight-sized (not even as big as a warhound), so they've bent but not broken that just yet.
Uh, what? Stormsurge is knight sized, Taunar is just as big as Warhound (well, slightly lower, but accounting for the guns on top it's even taller), and the 3 top guns are all bigger than Warhound turbolasers. At best you can argue Taunar is slightly lighter class, mounting 1 gun on top heavier than Warhound arm guns, with the two arm guns being 'light' titan weapons, but no more than that IMO...
I think my main struggle with picturing how other Titans might work, is that I've only ever played with and against them in a 'full' Epic game - never just Titan on Titan.
I'm finding that lack of experience somewhat stymies the imagination.
But I think the sensible position is to treat Imperial Titans as the baseline 'Joe Average'. Other species should be better in some area, weaker in others. To what degree? That really is the big question!
For instance, Eldar absolutely should be swift and overall more nippy. That allows a canny player to keep out of LoS and LoF of enemy Titans, offsetting the natural and typical fragility.
However, that shouldn't be to the point where one can only really tackle an Eldar Titan if the owning player stuffs up. Those sorts of game (all skirmish in Warhammer vs Blocks) are just plain dull for at least one player, as you simply cannot match the nippiness of the enemy, and they can only deliver Death By A Thousand Cuts.
One reason Imperials are, esp as titans, often jacks of all trades is because they have more of them than anyone else. Many of the other factions only had a handful of titans and thus they were very specialist whilst the Imperial line is far more developed. Once you've added a large number they gain a general ability to deal with any situation as they want
On my first point? I completely forgot the other 'complete sod' of fighting Eldar Titans. The Titan Aiming dice, and them being really, really skinny models.
You might make the roll to hit, sure. Only for the Titan Aiming Dice to land you off their chart, resulting in a miss. This was especially pronounced if you were trying to knack their Holofield Generators. If you roll a left or a right, you missed entirely. No save needed, the shot just never landed.
That in itself was pretty powerful, and fairly frustrating. It was also a boon enjoyed by Warhounds, as their profile was pretty tiddly.
That was offset (a bit) by the fact that template weapons ignored holofields. (I always went for a central location - always better to get some kind of hit rather than none at all).
I agree you don't want the eldar titans to be so awesome they are an auto-win, but it'll be a tricky one to balance.
I suppose the idea that the Imperial Guard sentinel is derived from the lighter vehicles used by the human peasantry on knight worlds is something else that's gone. Replaced by Armigers.
IIRC, Sentinels predate Adeptus Titanicus, to say nothing of Epic and Space Marine. IIRC, they first appeared with the initial 40K Imperial Guard list waaaaaaaay back in the pre-2nd Edition days.
Eldar Titan can leap over a building and blast a Titan in the rear , but since the rule writer of this game deliberately went out of his way to disregard common sense for balance they'd probably end up with weird rule.
I suppose the idea that the Imperial Guard sentinel is derived from the lighter vehicles used by the human peasantry on knight worlds is something else that's gone. Replaced by Armigers.
IIRC, Sentinels predate Adeptus Titanicus, to say nothing of Epic and Space Marine. IIRC, they first appeared with the initial 40K Imperial Guard list waaaaaaaay back in the pre-2nd Edition days.
Along with Rough Riders and Ogryn.
Yes. Their mention in the Imperial Knights article in WD 125 would be a retcon.
As for being as fast as an Imperial knight, I don't think the maximum off-road speed of either has been published, so it's a rather moot point. Also, it wouldn't need to keep up with a Knight - it only needs to keep up with a herd of herbivorous dinosaurs.
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Chopstick wrote: Eldar Titan can leap over a building and blast a Titan in the rear , but since the rule writer of this game deliberately went out of his way to disregard common sense for balance they'd probably end up with weird rule.
Pfft. I remember when Warlords could do that too. Not sure what you're referring to about "common sense", though.
game when its a special event game.
That's all I needed for my Legio Audax. Ursus claws and legio rules would be great and will hopefully come later, but I can wait for those.
