Wasn't sure if Dakka was aware of it, figured I'd put it up here so everyone can take a look. Picture of the box seemed kind of gigantic so I put it in spoilers to be on the safe side.
Spoiler:
The SD design choice almost feels like they're stepping on Soda Pop's toes a bit. Maybe there'll be a bit of cross promotion? Maybe some ill will between the two or a bit of a rivalry starting? I have no idea.
Seems you have a guild with 3 heroes that do a bit of delving. Campaign based with scenario outcomes affecting later challenges. Players vs players vs the board (monsters). 9 modular tiles as per the usual with a CMON board game. Looks to be rooms or obstacles that can be placed on the tiles for more variety. Weapons seem to have an actual icon versus Super Dungeon's pile of words with no flash to go with the loot. Players vs board makes me wonder if they'll include a solo mechanic as well.
Minis are a bit hard to see in the picture, and it looks like it's just mostly heroes. You're supposed to get 37 figures with the game (assuming it's not a KS and they end up with piles of extras). Board looks pretty bland at the moment too. Art and a bit of a blurb on all the heroes and monsters can be found at a new web page they just put up for it:
Not sure if it's a regular release or another kickstarter. Could be a new KS campaign since it's been a while, and Zombicide S2 is getting ready to ship, Rivet Wars is wrapping up all its extra stuff, Kaosball is waiting on new rulebooks, leaving Wrath of Kings chugging along...
.... and then there's Relic Knights. Which does seem to slowly be inching its way to the light at the end of the tunnel.
I know many of your opinions about CMON's kickstarters, so don't shoot the messenger! Just letting people know what they've got coming (as that seems to qualify as news) and I know I'm not the only fan of this style of artwork and game style.
Huh - that does seem weird that they would produce something that seems rather close to SDE in both art direction and gameplay-wise.
I couldn't find any pics of the actual minis (or renders) on the site though. They'd have to be pretty damn good since I'm already heavily invested in SDE.
A game designed by Eric Lang, Thiago Aranha, Fred Perret and Guilherme Goulart
but it certainly looks interesting, and I'm especially keen to get a better look at the minis (and find out what size they are with respect to SDE and to Impact's Chibi line)
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Dentry wrote: Agreed. It's damn close to SDE which is by no means a bad thing but it makes me wonder if they're trying to sidestep Soda Pop Miniatures.
And KS or regular release, I'll probably be jumping in on this.
I think you should ask yourself how their previous publishing endeavor with SPM went and if that may have affected said relationship :-P
Dentry wrote: Agreed. It's damn close to SDE which is by no means a bad thing but it makes me wonder if they're trying to sidestep Soda Pop Miniatures.
And KS or regular release, I'll probably be jumping in on this.
I think you should ask yourself how their previous publishing endeavor with SPM went and if that may have affected said relationship :-P
Did they have some sort of falling out I'm unaware of? SDE seems really popular - so I would think it would bring in a sizeable amount of cash to CMON?
I'm sure it's nothing sinister but as Cincy alludes - and yes, Cincy, I did ask myself that - this does make one wonder if perhaps they'd rather not deal with SPM. Both ks projects they're involved with haven't exactly been the smoothest around.
But, again, it's probably just as simple as another SD (super deformed) style game filtered through CMON which only magnifies any similarities with SDE.
No, they did. Arcadia looks pretty diff (I don't know a ton about it yet) but I'm digging with my sources to see if they'll hook me up with some teasers. As soon as I get it, I'll keep y'all updated.
It will be a KS, but I believe they're not starting it until they have all of their outstanding KS products (Zombicide S2 wave 2, Rivet Wars wave 2, Kaosball) in house so they can be prepped for shipping. I think (grain of salt) that their goal is mid march so it's running during adepticon.
Yeah - I'm not so sure there hasn't been some sort of split.
I was watching a now-deleted thread on Arcadia Quest on the Soda Pop forums. Looking around on the other forums I saw some stuff like this posted by Soda Pop staff:
"Legion no longer represents Soda Pop games. We will be posting information about our own volunteer program soon."
"Please send an email to rxxx@sodapopminiatures.com and I can help get that taken care of. Ixxx@sodapopminiatures.com is the normal email for missing parts and questions, but as we have been going through some switch over with Missing Parts with CoolMiniOrNot there has been some confusion."
So Soda Pop minis is now handling their own missing parts, and is no longer part of Legion (CMON's fan volunteer group).
I have no other info than what's presented here - but it appears something is going on.
That makes me wonder if CMON will still be distributing the next Super Dungeon expansion that's been getting teased.
Also makes me wonder what the future of Relic Knights will hold. If there are any future releases (or even retail at this point), who is it going to be through?
I would imagine both companies would be getting a slice of the profit, at least until there are any further negotiations. I still want a Noh box!
Having Eric Lang on board could be good news. If you aren't big board games fans, the guy's done some big games- the Call of Cthulhu CCG, the Game of Thrones card game, Chaos in the Old World, and Warhammer Invasion come to mind. I want to say he was involved in that Doom Trooper stinker as well, but the less said about that, the better.
Good on CMON if they actually get all their previous stuff sorted out for the most part before starting this. I think it would sit better with a lot of people.
With the mention of campaign play, it makes me wonder if CMON are finally going to give a Warhammer Quest style game a try. Should be interesting. Mantic will have to step up their game and get that Dwarf King's Hold rolling to compete!
Say what you want about CMON, but their campaigns are always a fun ride. The wait may be intolerable, the delays may be infuriating, the updates may be nonexistent, the comments section may a cesspool of filth, whining, and degradation, and the final quality may be lacking, but those 30 day rides always entertain!
I'm not sure how to feel about that. What's SPM's track record on its own? All I've known of them are the trickled releases of minis before SDE and the Relic Knights kickstarter put them on my radar. Perhaps the delays and inefficiency experienced are a result of CMON and SPM channels not meshing well(?) and they'll do better on their own.
Huh - I had no idea there was any acrimony between them at all before tonight.
Everytime I go to CMON's shop the Super Dungeon Explore core set is the best selling item, usually with some of the promos in the top 10 with it. You'd think that'd be enough to smooth over any tension and let them work together.
Dentry wrote: I'm not sure how to feel about that. What's SPM's track record on its own? All I've known of them are the trickled releases of minis before SDE and the Relic Knights kickstarter put them on my radar. Perhaps the delays and inefficiency experienced are a result of CMON and SPM channels not meshing well(?) and they'll do better on their own.
SPM, also known as Ninja Division (ND), has a poor record with Palladium right now on Robotech RPG Tactics (RRT). We'll see how they do with the Mega-Man board game KS they are a part of. Both Relic Knights and RRT are both hugely behind, but it is hard to seperate SPM/ND from the partners, CMoN and Palladium. If Mega-Man has horrible delays, that might spell a trend, as SPM/ND are the only common denominator...
SPM, also known as Ninja Division (ND), has a poor record with Palladium right now on Robotech RPG Tactics (RRT). We'll see how they do with the Mega-Man board game KS they are a part of. Both Relic Knights and RRT are both hugely behind, but it is hard to seperate SPM/ND from the partners, CMoN and Palladium. If Mega-Man has horrible delays, that might spell a trend, as SPM/ND are the only common denominator...
Cipher Studios is also part of Ninja Division, how is the fulfillment of Helldorado going?
Delayed (well it is a KS) but stuff is going out now
They had temps helping pack & send stuff so seem to have had a load of misspacks & missing stuff in the pledges that went out initially to the USA, so they're now slowing down and re-checking the stuff going out to Europe & the ROW
they've also been selling some of the new minis through retail/distribution long before the KS shipped (I'm not deeply enough involved to know if this is something they said would happen during the KS or if it just did)
I hope beyond hope there's a custom art stretch goal, so that all the loot cards have unique pictures on them. I HATE dungeon crawls with a wall of text stating how awesome my new weapon is. SHOW ME.
Totally OT, but related to Robotech/ Palladium. I have long held a secret hope that Palladium do some sort of board game/ skirmish game/ new miniatures line with their Rifts stuff. I know it would be a hot mess, and full of drama and emotional outbursts from all involved, but I still totally would want it.
SPM, also known as Ninja Division (ND), has a poor record with Palladium right now on Robotech RPG Tactics (RRT). We'll see how they do with the Mega-Man board game KS they are a part of. Both Relic Knights and RRT are both hugely behind, but it is hard to seperate SPM/ND from the partners, CMoN and Palladium. If Mega-Man has horrible delays, that might spell a trend, as SPM/ND are the only common denominator...
Cipher Studios is also part of Ninja Division, how is the fulfillment of Helldorado going?
I think they're done for US at least. I got my package weeks ago. Double Hellgate with a lot of swaps and it was accurate.
As for the Helldorado progress? It's not. Standard Cypher gak.
Worst thing for me is that I'd asked for general figures that were already available, to compliment my crews with. Still nothing.
Then you go on ahead and add in an ego sized helping of Kevin Siembieda's usual antics, and you get what you get...
Shell game companies for this tool to kick around and use as easy excuses as to why they can't deliver.
SOP for Siembieda.
Palladium has actually been done with their part of Robotech since early December IIRC. They are waiting for models to be done so they can be tooled, manufactured and then they get back involved for shipping. Till then, the bottle neck is out of their control.
Feel free to check out the latest update. Palladium doesn't do the actual work in changing the models but they are responsible for dictating the changes. They're also still working on the rules as of this week and their "minis" guy still hasn't finished the single painting guide chapter he has been working on now for 6-7 weeks. Palladium absolutely is a large part of the Robotech bottleneck and always has been. After they're done (and despite getting multiple HG approvals in the past or at least using that excuse for about a month and a half of delays non-stop), they'll have to get it all likely reapproved by HG as well.
As for the Helldorado progress? It's not. Standard Cypher gak.
Worst thing for me is that I'd asked for general figures that were already available, to compliment my crews with. Still nothing.
Then you go on ahead and add in an ego sized helping of Kevin Siembieda's usual antics, and you get what you get...
Shell game companies for this tool to kick around and use as easy excuses as to why they can't deliver.
SOP for Siembieda.
Um... he has nothing to do with SDE or Helldorado or Relic Knights.
No, I can honestly see where the confusion is written in and my message is lost in translation here.
I was putting point to two or three different things discussed in one post, and it honestly came out on the page wrong.
Not trying to be a mutt, but to go back and rehit my points for the reader-
1. CMON has here an honest "Not" SDE. Its going to go about the same as the rest of thier poop. They are using Kickstarter as thier personal piggy-bank/sales tool. For all of you who like them, I don't. I've had nothing but honestly bad to questionable service and nonsupport from them in every turn. I've canned most of the projects that they crapped the bed on, and cut myself loose of thier ongoing antics to the point where the logo is a killswitch of epic proportions for me. Looks nice, but I'll not be partaking, even though I've found that I have a massive soft spot for chibi-headed Fantasy games.
2. Helldorado's KS project has been unnessesarily delayed, and the delay excuses are bad or worse. Cypher is a gak company and in between the shell games that they play, they have not did a steller job on this project, then go in with games and gears on another one- leading to more of the same sort of the feeling that these game companies are just using KS to keep thier companies afloat. All it takes is a two liter serving of give a darn as is illustrated in the KS project. Long delays, miscasts, shoddy communications.
3. Palladium- Not that I really care about them, but I honestly just hate this guy in all of the gamer glory of old school dark side powaahh!! Anything he has a hand in has always ended up with babby poo all over it. THE ROBOTECH project is par for that course.
4. Sodapop, Cypher, Paladium, CMON.... gak companies. Just saying. All have done just the bare minimum needed to work in this industry. A few of them have done well, but on the whole, NONE of them are my first choice in gaming companies. If anything being associated with these companies makes me NOT want to look at what your doing, thats why I said it was a "Not" SDE clone game and hate to say it will probibly just watch this one with a bag of popcorn in one hand, and a giant salt shaker in another.
As for saying shell companies, thats my personal feeling. They did this flim flam as a tax dodge, but customers are going to get the same, if not exact, experience with one company as another. Big talk, little to no action, with excuses abound as to why they can't deliver on time. "Well... thats just KS...." is gak as an excuse.
I think where we'll have to really see a difference is in the rules.
Campaign vs SDE's one offs. Heroes vs the board (and each other) instead of heroes vs player controlled monsters is a big change between the two.
I really hope they don't push the PVP aspect of Arcadia too much. I've already got SDE for that!
Now that I think about it, I remember the designer mentioning a "project phoenix" he was working on around the time of Kaosball. I guess Arcadia Quest was operating under the moniker of project phoenix in house. Lang said he'd been working on it a while, so it's quite possible they had a lot of these design ideas in place long before things started turning sour (at least from an outsider's point of view) with soda pop.
Campaign vs SDE's one offs. Heroes vs the board (and each other) instead of heroes vs player controlled monsters is a big change between the two.
I really hope they don't push the PVP aspect of Arcadia too much. I've already got SDE for that!
Now that I think about it, I remember the designer mentioning a "project phoenix" he was working on around the time of Kaosball. I guess Arcadia Quest was operating under the moniker of project phoenix in house. Lang said he'd been working on it a while, so it's quite possible they had a lot of these design ideas in place long before things started turning sour (at least from an outsider's point of view) with soda pop.
I would think Phoenix is the still-in-development-hell promised relaunch of Confrontation, titled "Phoenix Edition".
That would make more sense. I could have sworn I saw Arcadia referred to as the project phoenix they were working on at some point. Maybe I'm just going crazy and the streams got crossed somewhere in my adventures on the internet.
Bringing up Confrontation though, I wonder if they'd still go through with it, seeing as how that might cut into their Wrath of King's market.
Then again, we've got this Arcadia Quest coming out when CMON had some involvement with SDE (even if only via distribution) at one point or another, so who knows...
I don't see Confrontation being able to rise from the ashes any time soon.... really ever under the company that manages it. There was an insane amount of metal stock liquidated that's still in circulation for much less than they are willing to sell new releases for. They had to cut prices again and again (and they still didnt move). Those Acheron/Griffin packs were DOA. Which makes me think they WAY overpaid on those molds/rights, or are just being stupid greedy and trying to recoup too much too fast. I don't think anything has been released since the Dwarf Golem, what, over a year ago?
I've got a couple 5 gallon tubs full of blisters I paid 5-10 cents on the dollar for. Most of the diehards collections are filled... they need to be making new stuff or offering the old stuff much cheaper to get in new players. Hell, hire the Legendarion dude, or just sell him the rights cheap. He's got the style down, and has been making new pieces. This is what you get for just sitting on your license doing nothing. I hate to say it, but the recasters are doing a better job expanding the world and growing the line.
As for Arcadia quest, it could be neat. SDE is a little too basic and "button mashy" for my tastes.
So... a total SDE ripoff then? Really not interested... I know SDE is inspired by many other things, but this just seems low by CMON. You can part ways, but to put out a near identical product... hmmmmmmmm.
Also, this:
cincydooley wrote: Let me just tell you that it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect an SDE 2nd Edition Kickstarter project this year with no involvement of CMoN......
Eric Lang also designed Quarriors, one of the favorite games at my house.
I love Quarriors! But the names on the box seem to have changed with the more recent expansions... I still have yet to actually play with the Questing dice from the latest expansion, since the game seemed about complicated enough for a quick fun game already. It's also a shame how each new expansion doesn't use the mechanics of the previous one, but that's neither here nor there...
cincydooley wrote: No, they did. Arcadia looks pretty diff (I don't know a ton about it yet) but I'm digging with my sources to see if they'll hook me up with some teasers. As soon as I get it, I'll keep y'all updated.
It will be a KS, but I believe they're not starting it until they have all of their outstanding KS products (Zombicide S2 wave 2, Rivet Wars wave 2, Kaosball) in house so they can be prepped for shipping. I think (grain of salt) that their goal is mid march so it's running during adepticon.
So much for that - Still waiting for Relic Knights so skipping on this
This is a first for CMoN - shipping is now charged on actual cost charged through the CKPM - expect this going forward for their campaigns shipping just got a lot more expensive.
Shipping information - Please take note
Based on past experience, we will be charging shipping after the Kickstarter concludes based on the actual costs incurred to ship. We will collect this via our pledge manager after the campaign concludes.
This is so we can be fair to all our backers as shipping is rarely one size fits all, and also give you more stretch goodies and possibly a choice of carrier options.
We will ship your rewards at our cost to our international hubs. Depending on where in the world you are, we will either ship you from our hub in Germany (EU backers), China (Asia Pacific backers), or Atlanta (USA and the rest of the world). As a rough estimate, the game will cost about $11 to ship in the USA, about $20-$25 in the EU (due to VAT), and $11 to Hong Kong all the way up to $40 for Australia, but this may increase or decrease based on the quantity of stretch goals we might unlock and your carrier choices.
Well, if they're shipping it to a hub at their expense it may work out cheaper for international pledgers. Though I guess it depends on how much extra stuff is unlocked in the next 18 days now that it's funded.
Wow! Thanks everyone, at just about 30 minutes into the kickstarter we fully funded! We’re super happy that there is such a strong fervor around Arcadia Quest… but the quest for loot isn’t over yet! Actually it’s just begun, now let’s get to hitting some of those epic stretch goals! Our first goal is $75,000, which will get all backers plastic coins! Don’t forget to spread the word, get your friends involved, and tell everyone you know so we can hit all those goals!
Solo play is something we went back and forth a lot during development, but in the end we had to let go of it because it was hampering the core game itself.
But that doesn't mean we can't look into it for an expansion, if there's really strong interest in it. But this is not something we'd ship out without some extensive development and playtesting, since it would be such a fundamental shift in the dynamic of the game.
DaveC wrote: and hopefully they will allow cancellations if shipping works out too expensive to justify the cost.
Given the new terms they usually put out with their pledge managers now, I highly doubt it.
It's a bummer that folks will basically buy anything CMON throws up there without batting an eye, at least to me... so many other worthy campaigns. They've had problems with a number of campaigns but it doesn't seem to deter people from piling in on news ones in the slightest...
I do know that some problems aren't their own creation (Soda Pop). But then, they can't get full credit for the fantastic ones either, right (Zombicide)? It's very hit-and-miss, so I don't quite get why people jump on them as if they're a sure thing when the quality has varied in level from Sedition Wars (so much angst) to Zombicide (generally very happy backers).
Again, if the fault isn't theirs, and every project is totally independent... then the credit isn't really theirs either when things go well?
because they are big campaigns so a backer can be reasonably sure of plenty of stretch goal stuff (a lot of it free)
and while the quality is not outstanding it is decent
the same reason why loads of folk go to chain restaurants, which are generally not as good as the best independents, but provide decent value
(the only stuff of theirs I've had major issues with were 3 or 4 of the sedition wars KS exclusive minis which were duds, everything else has been decent if not outstanding value for money)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Creator CoolMiniOrNot 17 minutes ago
Minis are pre-assembled, and the bases you see are 25mm for the Heroes and monsters, and 39mm for the Troll and Minotaur.
Happy to say I don't care for the looks of these. The big heads don't work as well with the longer limbs/torsos IMO. (compared to the squat little nubs SDE minis have)
I'm glad - because I'd have been conflicted if they were really awesome; wanting them, but then finding it kinda crappy how they came about.
They look better than SDE... Those Orcs are badass and not-voldemort is awesome.
I also like when Anime-style goes 'english' where characters have over-exaggerated western features like the priest/monk/vampire. Not every guy needs to be a anime-head clone.
Let's hope CMoN can avoid screwing it up, but the minis are cool enough I won't mind... I mean seriously... Will I ever get my Relic Knights SDE 6-pack? Sodapop has no one to blame but themselves for basically letting their game languish and risk others bulldoze their market. I mean Sodapop has been asking about PVP and Co-op for months and people have been making 'fan rules' as the market clearly prefers PVP or co-op over DM play so they had a window to release both 'campaign' and 'co-op' with DMless play.
This is super appealing as I think this is a much easier sell over SDE to people not comfortable with DM play and may be 'lighter' than myth. We will see.
i like some of the models, but i do wonder why almost all of them have screaming villain who just got thwarted expressions
i'll probably give this one a pass
I'm sure it'll sell because CMON has gotten an incredible reach, but I can't really see how this competes in a niche with the already very impressive looking SDE or Myth games.
Orlando, the "chain restaurant" comparison is a very good one, and that actually expresses quite well what I've felt about some of what CMON does. In that light, it actually bothers me a lot less... just not my preference, but you're right, some folks just are going to flock to it expecting a good deal, etc. So yeah, nice analogy!
Luckily not my brand of root beer. Saves me money and time from pressing the refresh button every 2 minutes
I predict
Dozens of People accusing CMON being a bunch of shysters.
Dozens more will tell them "if you don't like it, don't contribute" and stroke CMON's ego.
Complain about not enough bang for the buck.
Too many stretch goals you have to pay for.
Delays.
Quality control
lack of activity in the comments and updates post kickstarter.
It's like my family at Christmas time. People continue to go expecting a good time but know it will end up ugly because someone ALWAYS brings up politics, inheritance or dirty laundry.
They've got the best Zombie game on the market. By far.
They made Sedition Wars with McVey, one of the most respected names in the industry (even though results were mixed).
Everything they have is reasonably priced and quite well done.
What's "chain restaurant" about that? I guess I'm missing the analogy.
Depends how you are looking at it.
Zombicide is a great game. Components are solid, the miniatures OK, nothing super great, but for a board game and the amount you got no one should be expecting resin quality pieces.
Zombicide is like Jimmy Johns. Pretty damn good for the price and better than other chain sub shops.
Sedition Wars is like Taco Bell.
Advertisements drew you in.
You looked at when you got it.
You Knew at one time it came from something living, but not too sure what the living thing really was or what part of it came from.
The results were Biological hazard warning diarrhea.
I never thought I'd be going down this particular rabbit hole, but they're not really the typical chibi/SD style - they have the same rough proportions, but retain most of the detail of normally-scaled stuff. This causes them to look a little more like 'bobbleheads', and the effect is actually quite off-putting to me. They're certainly not badly sculpted at a technical level, but are definitely not 'cute' in the same way as the SDE stuff and I think are targeting a slightly different market segment.
The strange thing is that the boardgame market is going to go from having just a few co-op dungeon bash miniatures games to a total surfeit in the space of about a year! Will be interesting to see how this one plays.
Theres been a lot of speculation, but I don't think anyone knows for sure. That being said, it seems logical that there was some fallout over it and this is the product of said fallout.
I actually think this looks cooler than SDE, though I will probably just wait till retail.
Azazelx wrote: I might have been willing to go for this, but with shipping being a giant blank canvas, I feel like I may as well wait for retail.
Honestly, I don't understand the complaint on the shipping. If they would have included it but added for RoW, peopel would have flipped their gak for 'damned Americans getting free shipping'.
The truth is people want free shipping, world-wide and project expense, and that is unreasonable.
This is a pretty decent comment about shipping IMHO:
We will ship your rewards at our cost to our international hubs. Depending on where in the world you are, we will either ship you from our hub in Germany (EU backers), China (Asia Pacific backers), or Atlanta (USA and the rest of the world). As a rough estimate, the game will cost about $11 to ship in the USA, about $20-$25 in the EU (due to VAT), and $11 to Hong Kong all the way up to $40 for Australia, but this may increase or decrease based on the quantity of stretch goals we might unlock and your carrier choices.
This is hardly a 'blank canvas'. Those prices are 'in line' with what it costs, and if you don't like it... then don't blame them, blame your local postage/taxes/and such. It costs money to move stuff around the planet.
I much rather do shipping outside the KS for 2 reasons:
1: People pay what they owe opposed to the perceptions 'americans get free shipping' or 'RoW getting free shipping and drastically tanking the project'. I do not think it is unreasonable to pay for shipping.
2. Kickstarter doesn't pull 5% out of shipping and Paypal you can invoice just shipping and it is 'taxed' at a much lower rate. Means money paid for shipping actually goes for shipping and the vendor doesn't have to expect to eat 10%ish of his collections for shipping for moving money around.
I just don't think shipping is an issue unless you live in Antarctica and expect free shipping at the expense of all the other backers and the project.
...And you don't see why people, without complaining about shipping fees per se, would at least want to know what it would cost them before they committed to paying for it? Rightey then.
Bolognesus wrote: ...And you don't see why people, without complaining about shipping fees per se, would at least want to know what it would cost them before they committed to paying for it? Rightey then.
And how can anyone promise 'set in stone' shipping fees for a box size and weight which is 'yet to be determined' via shipping avenues which are always in flux due to shipping costs? It says right on the front page of the KS explicitly what the shipping costs would be based upon the current size of the package.
I think their statement was pretty upfront on what it would cost to ship... I don't know what more they can provide as they have been pretty clear telling what it would cost to ship the package as it is 'right now' with 'todays' cost with the expectation it will go up based upon size and shipping costs.
The only person who demands a set-in-stone shipping cost is someone who wants the project to 'eat it' when it changes the size of the box or international shipping changes. Or want other people to pick up the cost for RoW shipping.
What part of 'they told you the estimated shipping fees' for something which can't be guaranteed do you not understand? If you need set-in-stone shipping fees and don't trust the vendor, then don't pledge?
Basically all I see is RoW people who want KS where they get free shipping and don't have to actually pay what it costs to ship to them.
Well I have always wondered why there had not been an SDE kickstarter campaign. It always seemed like an obvious success.
Rumor has that an SDE 2nd Ed KS is coming this year.
They're delaying launch due to obvious reaons.
You mean the fact we haven't gotten our Relic Knights SDE products yet? Asking for more money while failing to fulfill previous KS hasn't stopped other companies, why should it stop them?
You mean the fact we haven't gotten our Relic Knights SDE products yet? Asking for more money while failing to fulfill previous KS hasn't stopped other companies, why should it stop them?
Honestly? It doesn't STOP them from doing it. But I think they've realized that A) they need to get some goodwill back from those two projects, and B) they simply don't have the time to put into it right now.
Plus, they have the Forgotten King stuff coming out, which is really pretty darn cool.
We've been playtesting it and the new monsters are fun, and there are some new rules that are really interesting.
You mean the fact we haven't gotten our Relic Knights SDE products yet? Asking for more money while failing to fulfill previous KS hasn't stopped other companies, why should it stop them?
Honestly? It doesn't STOP them from doing it. But I think they've realized that A) they need to get some goodwill back from those two projects, and B) they simply don't have the time to put into it right now.
Plus, they have the Forgotten King stuff coming out, which is really pretty darn cool.
We've been playtesting it and the new monsters are fun, and there are some new rules that are really interesting.
I'm also a pretty big fan of the Centaur hero.
Oh I will insta-buy any SDE stuff they release... But I would be kinda annoyed with a SDEKS right now. But of course, they would probably force my hand via exclusives.
Oh I will insta-buy any SDE stuff they release... But I would be kinda annoyed with a SDEKS right now. But of course, they would probably force my hand via exclusives.
It'll be interesting to see how they run it, as it almost assuredly won't involved CMoN, and thusly could have potentially fewer exclusives.
Personally, I think there's room in the hobby for both games, and I'll support both games.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm trying to figure out why they decided to do a not-SDE game. Was the fallout between them and Soda Pop over Relic Knights really that bad?
I know, right? And with an SDE kickstarter coming later this year, if I want a chibi dungeon adventure board game, I'll definitely be waiting for that one (although given Soda Pop's track record, I hope it's "done" or close to it and not just in a development state).
hold on a second........ It is my understanding that CMoN handles the production AND fulfillment of the campaigns for the products they fund on kickstarter. I do nto know all the details of their arrangement but in so far as I am informed that is the norm for CMoN projects. Is there any public info to the contrary?
Did Soda Pop do something to stuff up the Relic Knights campaign? I really have not followed it so I do nto know what the story is there. I imagine it cannto be good for either party involved though.
nkelsch wrote: If you need set-in-stone shipping fees and don't trust the vendor, then don't pledge?
Why do people always say stupid things like this? Yes, people can just not pledge. But getting people to pledge is their fething job. If they think that shipping to Australia on the $150 bundle will cost ~$40, guaranteeing that it will cost no more than, say, $50 creates confidence that would translate into increased sales.
SDE: Forgotten King is up on KS in March, and being done by Soda Pop and Ninja Division (their team-up with Cypher that's involved in the Robotech projects with Palladium)
we might even see the SDEKS start overlap with the end of this one (if not it'll be close)
Bolognesus wrote: ...And you don't see why people, without complaining about shipping fees per se, would at least want to know what it would cost them before they committed to paying for it? Rightey then.
And how can anyone promise 'set in stone' shipping fees for a box size and weight which is 'yet to be determined' via shipping avenues which are always in flux due to shipping costs? It says right on the front page of the KS explicitly what the shipping costs would be based upon the current size of the package.
I think their statement was pretty upfront on what it would cost to ship... I don't know what more they can provide as they have been pretty clear telling what it would cost to ship the package as it is 'right now' with 'todays' cost with the expectation it will go up based upon size and shipping costs.
The only person who demands a set-in-stone shipping cost is someone who wants the project to 'eat it' when it changes the size of the box or international shipping changes. Or want other people to pick up the cost for RoW shipping.
What part of 'they told you the estimated shipping fees' for something which can't be guaranteed do you not understand? If you need set-in-stone shipping fees and don't trust the vendor, then don't pledge?
Basically all I see is RoW people who want KS where they get free shipping and don't have to actually pay what it costs to ship to them.
Well I have always wondered why there had not been an SDE kickstarter campaign. It always seemed like an obvious success.
Rumor has that an SDE 2nd Ed KS is coming this year.
They're delaying launch due to obvious reaons.
You mean the fact we haven't gotten our Relic Knights SDE products yet? Asking for more money while failing to fulfill previous KS hasn't stopped other companies, why should it stop them?
Baloney. We both know project creators of this stripe know pretty dang well what the "heavy" components (board, box, any paper/cardboard stuff) will be, and what it will weigh. Even you couldn't keep your face straight arguing that a few plastic models more or less will make a significant change in shipping weight. And really, how the feth do you refuse to see that this ***Is*** arguing that we will "refuse to pledge" if a manufacturer can't keep his ducks in a row sufficiently to at least get this right? Screw the whole "wheeeh, RoW backers want us to pay for their shipping" argument (and its proponents, while we're at it); we'd like reasonable shipping set. that will be more RoW than CONUS - fine. No more than reasonable, actually. But a seller not quoting shipping until backers are an entirely captive party to the agreement, having already paid for the product, creates a lack of incentive to be efficient/creative in shipping at least; it'll encourage them to shift the 'grey area' costs (packing/sorting related) into paid shipping services as much as possible, to detriment of backers, if nothing else. Besides,it is simply a risk many backers will refuse to take.
If you even think of bringing up US postage hikes - I had the idjits at CMoN ship me a ZC S2 W1 package from the US instead of the UK -- by courier. which is what they seem to always prefer. The only effect the ridiculous USPS postage hikes will have is on CONUS shipping (because if a courier/not quite as USPS-like dominant party decides to hike fees like that, they're simply out of business). I know from our shipping department what the price increase rates for UPS/DHL (and a few others besides!) intl shipping have been - and they're pretty predictable, especially compared to USPS's monster price hikes.
The idea you seem to have that it would be improper for a project creator to have made provisions for certain risks/setbacks such as, oh, I dunno, cost increases in a significant cost component of the project, is frankly ludicrous. It is entirely reasonable to "eat" that, in fact, a properly run, even reasonably sophisticated commercial party would have such risks/costs incorporated in the final price - precisely because this bullgak will put off plenty of potential buyers.
Funny to see though how the trend of you deciding who is Wrong® and being your usual self about it continues regardless of subject matter.
I think the "set in stone" shipping is actually hugely irresponsible for a project if they have plans for stretch goals and purchaseable add ons that could significantly affect weight/box dimensions.
In fact, from everything I've read, shipping is the one area that nearly all successful KSes eat it, and in a major way.
Waiting until the end for shipping makes a lot of sense for me, to be honest, especially since they've given estimates already. Could they do an entire excel sheet that lists how much additional shipping cost an add on or stretch goal will be? Probably. And maybe they will. I'm not going to begrudge them on Day 1 for it, though, especially when they DID give estimates.
I'd rather wait until they knew how much each package is going to weigh with all stretches rather than ANY company lose money because of shipping.
Have we been spoiled in the past by free shipping? Oh absolutely. But I guess I just don't understand the irritation here.
Baloney. We both know project creators of this stripe know pretty dang well what the "heavy" components (board, box, any paper/cardboard stuff) will be, and what it will weigh. Even you couldn't keep your face straight arguing that a few plastic models more or less will make a significant change in shipping weight.
And really, how the feth do you refuse to see that this ***Is*** arguing that we will "refuse to pledge" if a manufacturer can't keep his ducks in a row sufficiently to at least get this right?
Screw the whole "wheeeh, RoW backers want us to pay for their shipping" argument (and its proponents, while we're at it); we'd like reasonable shipping set. that will be more RoW than CONUS - fine. No more than reasonable, actually. But a seller not quoting shipping until backers are an entirely captive party to the agreement, having already paid for the product, creates a lack of incentive to be efficient/creative in shipping at least; it'll encourage them to shift the 'grey area' costs (packing/sorting related) into paid shipping services as much as possible, to detriment of backers, if nothing else.
Besides,it is simply a risk many backers will refuse to take.
Then don't? RoW backers want set in stone underestimated shipping because it is more than a few plastic figures, especially when they add 'expansions' which come in boxes with dimensions and are more than a plastic figure stuffed in the packing. And what if it grows to have multiple shipping? Should the KS, or the bulk of non international backers be forced to eat the cost of doubles hipping to those people? No. The only 'fair' way is everyone pays their own way... which means people in Australia pay a gak ton. If they don't like that, then so be it.
If you even think of bringing up US postage hikes - I had the idjits at CMoN ship me a ZC S2 W1 package from the US instead of the UK -- by courier. which is what they seem to always prefer. The only effect the ridiculous USPS postage hikes will have is on CONUS shipping (because if a courier/not quite as USPS-like dominant party decides to hike fees like that, they're simply out of business). I know from our shipping department what the price increase rates for UPS/DHL (and a few others besides!) intl shipping have been - and they're pretty predictable, especially compared to USPS's monster price hikes.
USPS is dumb, poorly run and stamps are going up drastically for no reason. Internaltional shipping has also had issues like UK royal mail and so on. 6 months is an eternity and the number of KS who have lost hundreds of thousands due to simple minor postage rate changes or taxes is numerous... so I don't have a problem with them not promising set-in-stone shipping and expecting people to pay what they owe.
The idea you seem to have that it would be improper for a project creator to have made provisions for certain risks/setbacks such as, oh, I dunno, cost increases in a significant cost component of the project, is frankly ludicrous.
It is entirely reasonable to "eat" that, in fact, a properly run, even reasonably sophisticated commercial party would have such risks/costs incorporated in the final price - precisely because this bullgak will put off plenty of potential buyers.
Funny to see though how the trend of you deciding who is Wrong® and being your usual self about it continues regardless of subject matter.
I don't see why you expect companies to eat the cost or 'build it in' to the price so a majority of RoW shipping is funded by domestic backers. Sure they could have launched at 120$ and that means US people are paying 20$ for shipping when it really costs 10$ish, and that subsidies RoW... but after other KS get raked over the coals for building domestic into the cost then adding RoW as a line item, they *CAN'T WIN* unless they basically eat the cost and lose money.
Of our 3 choices:
*100% built-in to the cost of the pledge (domestic subsidizes RoW, Extreme expensive international gets a free ride or company eats the costs)
*Domestic built-in, added fee for RoW (RoW people complain they are unfairly targeted and domestic gets free shipping)
*Everyone pays exactly what they owe. They provide valid estimates, shipping collected post-KS when true costs are determined.
I will take option 3 every time. Seems like the best solution... Unless you are getting 60$ of shipping paid for by other backers... Then I can see why someone would be upset.
What about option 4, estimate the ROW shipping costs on the KS page and set a cap that they will not be charged over? Leaving it as a complete blank slate means people might not be sure if they can afford pledging or not (or if so, how much, if shipping turns out to be a real bear... whenever they end up telling backers the cost ).
nkelsch wrote: Of our 3 choices:
*100% built-in to the cost of the pledge (domestic subsidizes RoW, Extreme expensive international gets a free ride or company eats the costs)
*Domestic built-in, added fee for RoW (RoW people complain they are unfairly targeted and domestic gets free shipping)
*Everyone pays exactly what they owe. They provide valid estimates, shipping collected post-KS when true costs are determined.
I will take option 3 every time. Seems like the best solution... Unless you are getting 60$ of shipping paid for by other backers... Then I can see why someone would be upset.
Agreed and Exalted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: What about option 4, estimate the ROW shipping costs on the KS page and set a cap that they will not be charged over? Leaving it as a complete blank slate means people might not be sure if they can afford pledging or not (or if so, how much, if shipping turns out to be a real bear... whenever they end up telling backers the cost ).
What happens after that cap? The company funds it out of pocket? I don't understand why is a good solution... I mean, I appreciate when companies like Miniature Market give me free shipping, but I don't require it. Especially when I'm not paying taxes on it.
It costs money to ship things. I don't mind paying to have things delivered to my door.
You might mind more if you had no idea of the cost and then were charged $60 for something you were already committed to buy, though, right? I have not bought things due to shipping cost numerous times, it's part of the decision making process when deciding on a purchase.
RiTides wrote: You might mind more if you had no idea of the cost and then were charged $60 for something you were already committed to buy, though, right? I have not bought things due to shipping cost numerous times, it's part of the decision making process when deciding on a purchase.
I guess my question is why you're not okay with the estimates they've given, then?
I'd agree with you if they didn't have the estimates. But they do.....
I'm just confused about that disconnect. Not trying to be antagonistic. Promise
RiTides wrote: You might mind more if you had no idea of the cost and then were charged $60 for something you were already committed to buy, though, right? I have not bought things due to shipping cost numerous times, it's part of the decision making process when deciding on a purchase.
I guess my question is why you're not okay with the estimates they've given, then?
I'd agree with you if they didn't have the estimates. But they do.....
Because an estimate isn't worth jack gak. If you are not willing to honour your quote (and this is a company that changed their T&C after the fact to state that they would not honour their other promises) it is not to be trusted.
RiTides wrote: You might mind more if you had no idea of the cost and then were charged $60 for something you were already committed to buy, though, right? I have not bought things due to shipping cost numerous times, it's part of the decision making process when deciding on a purchase.
I guess my question is why you're not okay with the estimates they've given, then?
I'd agree with you if they didn't have the estimates. But they do.....
Because an estimate isn't worth jack gak. If you are not willing to honour your quote (and this is a company that changed their T&C after the fact to state that they would not honour their other promises) it is not to be trusted.
Really?
Estimates are worth a lot in TONS of industries in the United States. Landscaping. Auto Repair. Etc. Etc. Etc.....
Would you prefer they estimate HIGHER than they expect actual shipping to be in order to CYA and then keep any difference?
I guess I really don't understand the complaints....
I really like the models for this. They are different and fun. The game looks alright too.
This is board game I could see playing with my cousins or buddies so I'm probably gonna wind up going in on it.
I, for one, didn't really have any issue with the Sedition Wars Kickstarter (and even got my money I spent mostly back on just the exclusives). Everything coming out of Wrath of Kings looks excellent. So I don't really have an issue going in on this outside of funds, which should be ok.
Estimates are worth a lot in TONS of industries in the United States. Landscaping. Auto Repair. Etc. Etc. Etc.....
Would you prefer they estimate HIGHER than they expect actual shipping to be in order to CYA and then keep any difference?
I guess I really don't understand the complaints....
I think he means 'Estimates from CMoN'... Which is valid if someone has an issue with how they run their KS... which goes back to 'don't pledge'.
I think overcharging the majority to cover the minority or charging everyone the cost for the majority and eating the minority are both bad solutions. I am more willing to back if everyone pays their own way. (and that includes when it is a Euro crowdfunding and I am the one paying 40+ for shipping)
I can tell you from personal experience that shipping costs can eat you alive even if there are no increases. It is not possible to predict the exact costs of postage on any given package weight to any country in the world 6 months ahead of the actual shippign date. Futher complicate that by adding in random shippign wieghts and possibly package dimensions, and then possible rate increases and you have a recipe for serious financial disaster.
In my own case I am STILL using regular profits to pay off the postage costs of my first KS fulfillment.
Also consider as well that if postage cost are collected via kickstarter then KS and Amazon will take a 10% cut of those funds right off the top and then what is left over is a percentage out of the actual funding of the product's development. You are talkign 10's of thousands fo dollars on CMoN projects there.
I know that I won;t ever include shipping costs on any KS funding I collect ever again. It si just too risky.
cincydooley wrote: I guess I don't know what else people want them to do....
I'll use small words:
I want them to say "It will cost no more than this much to buy this from where you live."
I think Tre covered it pretty succinctly. I don't think CMON should charge shipping until it is actually time to ship, as 6 months is a long time use a crystal ball to forecast something as fickle as shipping costs.
Do I think they should lock you into your pledge, not let you out of it if your shipping were going to be $60? No. But I think both you and CMON can check with those major shipping companies in your area, to see what they might be. Accurate? Not really, as they won't ship for 6 months. Lock in a price to keep you as a customer? Not a chance. Sorry, the company staying solvent is more important than having you as a customer in a KS. Maybe you'll buy it at retail, maybe you won't. But buying it at retail, you still pay for the shipping cost, it is just defrayed for whichever store/company you buy it from, as they bought in bulk to lower shipping cost.
You guys are all ignoring the logistical nightmare of getting everyone to pay Again for shipping, later. Tre, I know you've pulled this off with your smaller recent kickstarter, but for a giant campaign like this that is also a giant pain...
In the end, they can do it how they like and it's pretty clear they've chosen this way, I just think the other point of view is reasonable too.
but since they'll (probably) have a pledge manager which backers will have to use anyway so it will be straight forward to grab the extra cash for shipping then
I imagine they'll just wait till a couple of months before the shipping date to open it
but since they'll (probably) have a pledge manager which backers will have to use anyway so it will be straight forward to grab the extra cash for shipping then
I imagine they'll just wait till a couple of months before the shipping date to open it
I agree, having pledged 3 times with CMON, I think their pledge manager is pretty easy to use, and will serve the purpose quite efficiently of collecting the shipping cost after the close. Plus, I think it is smarter to not pay 10% to oblivious parties (KS and Amazon) for shipping fees.
(and as an unintended bonus they'll take about 10-15% less cash up front which means fewer stretch goals hit and less stuff given away so they save money at both ends)
Azazelx wrote: I might have been willing to go for this, but with shipping being a giant blank canvas, I feel like I may as well wait for retail.
Honestly, I don't understand the complaint on the shipping. If they would have included it but added for RoW, peopel would have flipped their gak for 'damned Americans getting free shipping'.
The truth is people want free shipping, world-wide and project expense, and that is unreasonable.
What part of "giant blank canvas" do you not understand? I've spent more than you ever will on international shipping, so I'm quite seasoned to it as an added expense. However - "it'll be however much it is - we'll tell you (much) later." doesn't work for me.
Screw the whole "wheeeh, RoW backers want us to pay for their shipping" argument (and its proponents, while we're at it); we'd like reasonable shipping set. that will be more RoW than CONUS - fine. No more than reasonable, actually. But a seller not quoting shipping until backers are an entirely captive party to the agreement, having already paid for the product, creates a lack of incentive to be efficient/creative in shipping at least; it'll encourage them to shift the 'grey area' costs (packing/sorting related) into paid shipping services as much as possible, to detriment of backers, if nothing else.
Besides,it is simply a risk many backers will refuse to take.
Shipping from China to Australia is actually pretty cheap. Freighting from China to somewhere else in China (like a distribution centre) is also pretty reasonable, and somewhat cheaper than freighting to the US.
I wonder if it's cheaper than freighting in bulk to the US from China, and then sending out individual parcels to US locations?
Azazelx wrote: I might have been willing to go for this, but with shipping being a giant blank canvas, I feel like I may as well wait for retail.
Honestly, I don't understand the complaint on the shipping. If they would have included it but added for RoW, peopel would have flipped their gak for 'damned Americans getting free shipping'.
The truth is people want free shipping, world-wide and project expense, and that is unreasonable.
Oh, that's the other thing. Before you decided to act like a tool and insultingly attempt to put words in my mouth or tell me what my motivations are (I might start doing that for you, too from now on. Maybe in Mantic threads when I've been broadly supportive of your points?) what was my fething comment?
Hint: It's up top. Quoted. I greeneed it up for you so you could find it and perhaps manage to not attempt to twist it. No bile. No anger. No butthurt. Just a statement of choice. "The truth" is that you don't know half of what you think you do.
Azazelx wrote: I might have been willing to go for this, but with shipping being a giant blank canvas, I feel like I may as well wait for retail.
Honestly, I don't understand the complaint on the shipping. If they would have included it but added for RoW, peopel would have flipped their gak for 'damned Americans getting free shipping'.
The truth is people want free shipping, world-wide and project expense, and that is unreasonable.
What part of "giant blank canvas" do you not understand? I've spent more than you ever will on international shipping, so I'm quite seasoned to it as an added expense. However - "it'll be however much it is - we'll tell you (much) later." doesn't work for me.
The part where they didn't give a blank canvas, they gave clear estimations which are in-line with dozens of other KSs real costs and said " it may increase based upon change of size and shipping at date of shipping." Very reasonable for lots of people.
While you may not like that answer, that is hardly a blank canvass. And your expectation of a "set in stone" shipping cost where others subsidize you or the company eats the costs is not reasonable which is the alternative.
And it seems the truth is not with the estimate, you simply don't like the cost. You feel it should be done cheaper. companies have no obligation to cater to you and may not feel it is worth the trouble of china distributors or the risk. Simply put, they gave you information, if you don't like it, don't pledge... That is way different than being given no information as you have said.
Once again trying to put words in my mouth and/or trying to tell me my motivations. I also said nothing of "set in stone" (not my words) nor anything of subsidies. Interestingly, you keep repeating "if you don't like it, don't back it" - which was pretty much the gist of my initial comment that seems to have sent you into some kind of amusingly apoplectic frenzy for some unfathomable reason. The "China distributor" comes from their own information page, by the way.
So basically, you're again attempting to put words into my mouth, attempting to tell me what my own motivations are, have misquoted me, and failed to read the information on the KS page. You are either wilfully doing all of this, or you're simply not very smart. Maybe a little of each. I've lost what respect I had developed for you. You're merely a troll/internet tough guy, and you're joining my ignore list.
I was looking for a nice SDE type game and this does look nice but... I backed Sedition Wars and that turned into one ungodly mess with lots of cut corners, so I think I'll hang on and see what Soda Pop come up with for there game.
Gomezaddams wrote: I was looking for a nice SDE type game and this does look nice but... I backed Sedition Wars and that turned into one ungodly mess with lots of cut corners, so I think I'll hang on and see what Soda Pop come up with for there game.
Heh. Someone should tell you about Relic Knights and Robotech.
CMON is looking into whether the factory may be able to supply some painted sets
Creator CoolMiniOrNot 30 minutes ago
We're looking into the possibility of a set painted to factory/tabletop standards. Based on past experience asking painting studios to do it has been expensive and unreliable, so getting those painted at the factory and limiting the quantity available to 100 or 200 seems like the way to go but will run to about $5 a figure
(not of interest to me but maybe somebody else?)
Automatically Appended Next Post: So we've chatted about postage but forgotten to talk about stretch goals
cincydooley wrote: I guess I don't know what else people want them to do....
I'll use small words:
I want them to say "It will cost no more than this much to buy this from where you live."
Fine, it wont cost more than a million to ship to you. I get you're in Australia, and shipping is insane to/from there. Its why I never order anything from Back 2 Base-ix anymore, or back any projects from there. Assume it doubles, is it still worth it to you? I can't imagine it going up more than that, so use that as your price point. I think the better goal would be to figure out how much you're saving off retail. If its a lot, then significant shipping variation will matter less. If its a little, then you might just want to wait.
But can we please stop going round and round about their lack of a crystal ball and unwillingness to put themselves at financial risk for not knowing how much shipping costs will rise a year from now? Its like getting mad about "estimated delivery date". They aren't going to give a hard number. If that's an issue, don't pledge. I can't imagine it changing THAT much, so just throw your change in a jar and you'll have it more than covered by the time this thing is ready to ship in whatever month it inevitably gets bumped back to in 2015.
On the game itself, is it just me, or does it seem that there not enough monsters in this? Maybe each orc is the equivalent of 2 heroes, but with 4 players controlling 3 adventurers, there's a max of 25 monsters vs 12 heroes. I'm a little worried about the game being very repetitive at that point with little potential in spawning variation. Is there a rules preview up anywhere I missed?
I'm not entirely sold on the sculpts, at least compared to the chibi figures I already have (SDE and Impact). The faces are really full of character, particularly some of the males with the exaggerated features. But the proportions are off from everything else I have. I wonder if that was intentional to create their own brand and style.
I'd assume the proportions are intentional, and especially to differentiate themselves from the competition.
We definitely need to see more monster variety and numbers.
I'd like to see more boxed expansion encounters like the nameless. Wouldn't surprise me to see a few like that pop up in the add ons as things progress.
Figures are inconsistant, the "Chibi" figures look like old Muscle figures, and they really don't fit in in a patterned game, they just look like someone dumped a bunch of the muscle figures in a pile and thought it might make a good game.
As to the shipping, CMON has plenty of experience, its not anything like using a crystal ball. Its a standard square box, pretty much the same size as any other of the million buck projects they pulled out of thier preverbial hats. Aside from the stutter steps, they will do all right for themselves strictly by name alone. ( Even if I'm not a fan of them, there are plenty of satisfied people that like thier logo, or something.)
If they were smart, they would get in on a shipping contact, or buy on into a shipping deal for thier products and call it a day. Its not like they can't afford it at this point.
To me, all that they want to take on the lions share of the gaming industry like a movie producer, guess the paying public gets to now see how they like shimming the S and H out of the KS projects and adding it to the bottom line...
Figures are inconsistant, the "Chibi" figures look like old Muscle figures, and they really don't fit in in a patterned game, they just look like someone dumped a bunch of the muscle figures in a pile and thought it might make a good game.
That's allowed. Not everyone has to be. I thought the same thing and love them more because of it.
As to the shipping, CMON has plenty of experience, its not anything like using a crystal ball. Its a standard square box, pretty much the same size as any other of the million buck projects they pulled out of thier preverbial hats. Aside from the stutter steps, they will do all right for themselves strictly by name alone. ( Even if I'm not a fan of them, there are plenty of satisfied people that like thier logo, or something.)
If they were smart, they would get in on a shipping contact, or buy on into a shipping deal for thier products and call it a day. Its not like they can't afford it at this point.
Pretty sure they already do. Doesn't mean they can anticipate price hikes a year out from USPS, especially when they've come so consistently as of late. And just because they "can afford it" doesn't mean supplementing shipping should be a requirement.
To me, all that they want to take on the lions share of the gaming industry like a movie producer, guess the paying public gets to now see how they like shimming the S and H out of the KS projects and adding it to the bottom line...
Or, more reasonably, they don't want to take a huge loss for shipping like many other KS projects have in the past.
Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.
(a) With a far more diverse "warehouse-pick" from their complete inventory, rather than the "mono-product" packaging-line of a boxed-game KS like this.
(b) With far slimmer profit-margins as retailers, compared to sales made directly from the producer
(c) Over a far longer time-period than just "one shipment" (or two or three), but on a daily, recurring basis.
(d) Without money in the bank accruing interests months in advance, but with needing to ship as soon as the order is in.
Of course CMON can do what they want, but if they make "loss" on shipping on a Kickstarter pledging months in advance for a (more or less) single product with a minimum-pledge of 100 USD, while every etailer and their dog can ship for free, internationally, for thousands of products, without months of advance payments, on a near-permanent basis, without making a loss, than there is something odd going on.
cincydooley wrote: So because some people sacrifice their profit margins all companies should?
I don't buy that.
Additionally, e-tailers aren't responsible for freighting things in, paying for large freight crates, etc.
/shrug
What do freighting costs have to do with shipping individual boxes? How is "freighting things in" different to a box shipping to Australia than it is to a box shipping next door to CMON's warehouse in Atlanta(?)
And, as I said, CMON can do what they please, but it should be fair to compare them to people who evidently seem to be able to handle things more efficiently, effectively and cheaper. If CMON-backers are happy to pay more to suffer CMONs ineptitude, more power to them. Land of the Free.
Just noting that the competition seems to be doing better.
Coffee-shop 1 offers free wifi, and still making profit. The other coffee-shop 2 across the road asks you to pay 5 bucks. If you enjoy the other coffee-shop 2, do what you like. Land of the Free. It's simply worth pointing out that it is not impossible to operate like coffee-shop 1 and still be profitable. If coffee-shop 2 would loose money if they'd offer free wifi, it's not the wifi that's to blame. It's their management/accounting.
Dentry wrote: Does anyone else see a crease or sharp contour line running across the noseless faces of the female figures?
I can't decide if it's the paint job or (looking at the shading) the model itself.
Yeah lol, it kind of creates a 5 o'clock shadow effect. I think its the paint job as the models themselves dont appear to have a hard line there. If we could see them at another angle unpainted it would probably help.
What do freighting costs have to do with shipping individual boxes? How is "freighting things in" different to a box shipping to Australia than it is to a box shipping next door to CMON's warehouse in Atlanta(?)
And, as I said, CMON can do what they please, but it should be fair to compare them to people who evidently seem to be able to handle things more efficiently, effectively and cheaper. If CMON-backers are happy to pay more to suffer CMONs ineptitude, more power to them. Land of the Free.
Just noting that the competition seems to be doing better.
Coffee-shop 1 offers free wifi, and still making profit. The other coffee-shop 2 across the road asks you to pay 5 bucks. If you enjoy the other coffee-shop 2, do what you like. Land of the Free. It's simply worth pointing out that it is not impossible to operate like coffee-shop 1 and still be profitable. If coffee-shop 2 would loose money if they'd offer free wifi, it's not the wifi that's to blame. It's their management/accounting.
You're not comparing apples to apples here, when in regards to e-tailers.
SPM, as the Retailer, Distributor, and Manufacturer, is potentially paying for shipping three times. Once to get the Product, via boat usually, to their warehouses, once to ship out quantities to other distributors like Alliance, and once to ship to consumers who purchase from them directly.
An e-tailer like Wayland Games is usually only paying for shipping directly to the customer. Their distributor (again, typically) covers their shipping if they order over a certain amount. They don't have to pay to have anything freighted over.
Simply, they're not, as I said before, the same.
And it certainly has nothing to do with ineptitude; hell, I'd argue it speaks more to their KS experience that they're doing like this so they DON'T have to eat such a loss.
Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.
Minor point - they can and do adjust as needed. When prices rise, they can raise the amount required for free shipping or suspend entirely. Wayland's free shipping promo code pops up for a month a time, during which they know what the price will be (and excludes bulky items, as they see fit to define it). This is likely being shipped in 2015, because when was the last time a kickstarter didn't have a delay?
Gomezaddams wrote: I was looking for a nice SDE type game and this does look nice but... I backed Sedition Wars and that turned into one ungodly mess with lots of cut corners, so I think I'll hang on and see what Soda Pop come up with for there game.
Heh. Someone should tell you about Relic Knights and Robotech.
I can tell you about Relic Knights. After CMoN let Sodapop take over the kickstarter page we actually get updates. Sadly a few have been about delays, but I'm more comfortable with Sodapop now that CMoN seems to have washed their hands of it. I have no information on Robotech.
Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.
(a) With a far more diverse "warehouse-pick" from their complete inventory, rather than the "mono-product" packaging-line of a boxed-game KS like this.
(b) With far slimmer profit-margins as retailers, compared to sales made directly from the producer
(c) Over a far longer time-period than just "one shipment" (or two or three), but on a daily, recurring basis.
(d) Without money in the bank accruing interests months in advance, but with needing to ship as soon as the order is in.
Of course CMON can do what they want, but if they make "loss" on shipping on a Kickstarter pledging months in advance for a (more or less) single product with a minimum-pledge of 100 USD, while every etailer and their dog can ship for free, internationally, for thousands of products, without months of advance payments, on a near-permanent basis, without making a loss, than there is something odd going on.
Let's say I buy the new Imperial Knight model from GW. It's over 40 GBP. Wayland ships it free.
This boxed game will weigh 3-5 times as much, and will be in a much larger package because of the boxed game and all the add-ons that won't fit into the original boxed game. So, the two things that drive the price up in any shipping is container size and weight. So, while Wayland, just like The WarStore in the US, takes a small hit with shipping, they know that they won't be losing money on it, as CMON would be to offer everyone free International shipping. They are already cutting down on shipping costs by having a distribution center in Europe, and shipping right from China to Australia.
I can buy a US spec'd BMW or Volvo in Europe for about $10,000 less than stateside. Volvo throws in free shipping to the US. BMW says "you can afford the BMW, you can afford to ship it home!" Since I saved $10,000, I can afford to pay $1000 to ship it home.
Same metaphor applies here. If you think you're getting a great deal, buy in. If not, stop whining...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sinful Hero wrote: I can tell you about Relic Knights. After CMoN let Sodapop take over the kickstarter page we actually get updates. Sadly a few have been about delays, but I'm more comfortable with Sodapop now that CMoN seems to have washed their hands of it. I have no information on Robotech.
Hmm, Robotech. They just digitally printed one of the core models from the base game, and are having it sent to Palladium. This was one of the original pieces in the game, so presumably one of the 98% done pieces before the KS began. Palladium hasn't even seen it yet to tell them if changes need to be made, and it will have to jump through the hoops at Harmony Gold to get blessed off on before it can have its molds cut. And we're supposed to have this in our hot little hands in June. So. SPM/ND doesn't get any kudo's from me. And I find it extremely humorous that you're happier with the state of the RK updates, as it was most likely SPM that hampered them when CMON was pushing them out. Can't really push updates about models when the studio doing the models won't/can't share anything. And no, I'm not saying CMON is the greatest. Sedition Wars, minus the terrain stuff, I'll sell to anyone that wants it. Awful. Unplayable. Collecting dust. Rivet Wars, Zombicide are both great, and AQ looks good and fun to sit and play with my family. But other people made all these games, not CMON. So good bonds and relations with those groups/individuals/studios is what made those KS so successful and well received. The two current KS's that should have already delivered with SPM/ND involved, are far, far behind. CMON has washed their hands of RK, so its completely on SPM now. Palladium is stuck with ND, who is atrociously behind on their "98% complete" sculpts.
So when people throw out 98% complete now, it makes me cringe when SPM/ND is involved. Because they said the same thing with their Megaman game. So that leads me to believe that either making the TFK figure or Megaman stuff or trying to catch up on RK has impacted their business, and just presents a poorly run organization and the possibility of either shoddy models, or shoddy support. Possibly both.
Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.
Of course CMON can do what they want, but if they make "loss" on shipping on a Kickstarter pledging months in advance for a (more or less) single product with a minimum-pledge of 100 USD, while every etailer and their dog can ship for free, internationally, for thousands of products, without months of advance payments, on a near-permanent basis, without making a loss, than there is something odd going on.
To be fair, that's "many" rather than most, and is pretty much limited to UK etailers in my experience - so "many UK etailers" - not "most etailers". Much of the "free" shipping comes from the 20% VAT, while the rest is largely the inbuilt discount (on product via shipping) that they offer to local orders. Of course, RM is a lot cheaper than USPS these days, and US etailers seem to not charge sales tax on orders outside of their home state anyway (due to state tax laws), and also don't do gak for international customers for international shipping. (ie Miniaturemarket offers free UPS for US orders over $100 while international orders don't even get a slight discount on shipping. The only US etailer who seems to do anything like this is Discount Games Store, who do a slight discount on international shipping which they told me is to offset the free US shipping they offer - and they're a purely online place with no B&M base. So, basically, a mix of can't and won't for US etailers and free shipping, and to be fair, mostly can't. If you know of any reliable US gaming retailers who ship internationally for free, I'd be very grateful to know who they are.
Sure, they have our money, interest free for a long time, but they're using that to pay for the production, and so that aspect is either the basis of Kickstarter, or swings and roundabouts, depending on your POV, but isn't an outrage, either.
It definitely isn't an outrage, but the comparisons are fair, imo. Having to pay for shipping later is something that would put me off pledging- with how delayed kickstarters tend to be, and how many I've backed, I don't want to have to keep track of keeping funds set aside to cover the shipping for each one 6 months or a year from now.
I have a feeling folks aren't really doing the math and will spend similarly to how they would if the pledge DID include shipping... which I'm sure isn't lost on CMON.
In the end, as folks have said, people are free to choose to do however they like, but pointing out that they're probably going to cash in on this is also pretty fair imo.
Free shipping thresholds are common, and a big incentive... not having shipping "included" is a disincentive. Is it a big enough disincentive to keep people from pledging? Clearly, it is not for many people... but that doesn't mean that it's a non-issue for everybody, and it's a valid thing to discuss on a campaign like this.
I do agree with you. The other thing is that even with delays, we have no control over when KS producers will actually bother to ship out international packages, and as we've seen with a few campaigns, we often go out last. Cypher studios had a little complain about the USPS prices in their comments about USPS prices going up for international orders - but they'd been shipping for a few weeks by then, and had decided to send out internationals last (so after the USPS rise). Not my fault you sent us out last!
Gomezaddams wrote: I was looking for a nice SDE type game and this does look nice but... I backed Sedition Wars and that turned into one ungodly mess with lots of cut corners, so I think I'll hang on and see what Soda Pop come up with for there game.
Heh. Someone should tell you about Relic Knights and Robotech.
I can tell you about Relic Knights. After CMoN let Sodapop take over the kickstarter page we actually get updates. Sadly a few have been about delays, but I'm more comfortable with Sodapop now that CMoN seems to have washed their hands of it. I have no information on Robotech.
That's not really fair, cincy- he's talking about Relic Knights, not Robotech, and said as much (although that's kind of like comparing one smelly sock to another ).
RiTides wrote: That's not really fair, cincy- he's talking about Relic Knights, not Robotech, and said as much (although that's kind of like comparing one smelly sock to another ).
Oh I know. But there's a lot of info out there about the RK project that he seems to not have read as well.
RiTides wrote: That's not really fair, cincy- he's talking about Relic Knights, not Robotech, and said as much (although that's kind of like comparing one smelly sock to another ).
Oh I know. But there's a lot of info out there about the RK project that he seems to not have read as well.
Regardless, I retract my snark. Soweee Mr Hero.
Apology accepted. As anyone else involved in the Relic Knights kickstarter, I try to keep up to date. I've followed the dakka thread on it fairly closely, and occasionally pop into the kickstarter page. I'm well aware my opinion is different than others. I'm not happy with the delays, but I remain optimistic about the project as a whole. Although I am worried about longterm support, but it won't be the first time I'm left with a bunch of pretty miniatures and no game and no players.
On topic, I'm very leery of this endeavor on CMoN's part. From what my buddies tell me, they're still waiting on their second-wave from Rivet Wars with no idea when it'll be in. That's on top of a four-month delay, and the several announced delays on predicted ship dates. CMoN just has notorious shoddy kickstarter management, regardless of the project involved.
I thought Rivet Wars is continuing along smoothly?
They just showed off the 3d prints for the plastic terrain, didn't they?
Not to dismiss CMON's questionable communication issues.
On topic though, those paint jobs are too nice. With anime- inspired art like they've got, I'd prefer the figures to be way more bright and garish, not with actual highlights and shading. I'll probably do mine up way more toylike if I'm inspired enough to paint everything... I'm getting tempted to finally paint my SDE set in anticipation of this (and the SDE kickstarter).
I can't tell if the monster hunter is supposed to have facial hair or not. The art looks like stubble, the model somewhere in between, while the painted version seems to have a full on 'stache and goatee.
They just showed off the 3d prints for the plastic terrain, didn't they?
Not to dismiss CMON's questionable communication issues.
On topic though, those paint jobs are too nice. With anime- inspired art like they've got, I'd prefer the figures to be way more bright and garish, not with actual highlights and shading. I'll probably do mine up way more toylike if I'm inspired enough to paint everything... I'm getting tempted to finally paint my SDE set in anticipation of this (and the SDE kickstarter).
I can't tell if the monster hunter is supposed to have facial hair or not. The art looks like stubble, the model somewhere in between, while the painted version seems to have a full on 'stache and goatee.
I guess I should have made the note that I only have what they told me to go on. To the extent of my knowledge, they have not received an update on when the next wave will ship.
Regarding the minis, is it just me, or are some of the details painted on?
Spoiler:
The nose and lips seem a little too soft to me, at least with this figure. Also, the long arms and stubby feet really seem to clash with the "chibi" look.
Yeah. You're a little off base on rivet wars. They're expected delivery was q1 2014, which were still in, and it sounds like all the production is going well save for some issues regarding the flight stand for the fliers.
cincydooley wrote: Yeah. You're way off base on rivet wars. They're expected delivery was q1 2014, which were still in
He's not that off base. The first shipment was indeed several months behind schedule (The KS page said Sept 2013, They didn't send them out until January). And Quarter 1 ends in about a month, I'm certainly not expecting to have my second wave goodies before April. (Especially with the last update mentioning problems with the flight stands that need to be reworked).
Still, overall Rivet Wars has been one of the least delayed KSs I've backed. And they've had pretty good communication IMO.
cincydooley wrote: Yeah. You're way off base on rivet wars. They're expected delivery was q1 2014, which were still in
He's not that off base. The first shipment was indeed several months behind schedule (The KS page said Sept 2013, They didn't send them out until January). And Quarter 1 ends in about a month, I'm certainly not expecting to have my second wave goodies before April. (Especially with the last update mentioning problems with the flight stands that need to be reworked).
Still, overall Rivet Wars has been one of the least delayed KSs I've backed. And they've had pretty good communication IMO.
No, my wife received mine in the US in December, so while it was shipped late, they told us pretty early that it was going to be late. AND Ted designed and had manufactured extra troops for each side to be shipped in Wave 2 to apologize to the RW community. I think they'll be late on Wave 2, but not what is becoming the norm in KS Land: 4-6+ months late. I'm very happy with RW, and for what we got in that KS, it's gotta be more than 300% of what it would have cost at retail for what I paid. Plus, CMON is pretty supportive of the game on their forums.
As far as Ninja Pop (credit due to another Dakka member) goes, not only are you getting everything late, but the only thing they're offering in way of apology are poor excuses and poorer attitude. If Palladium hadn't split the delivery into two Waves so they could sell some models at Gencon to put $$ in their pockets, RRT would be at least a year late...and they're passing on all the scorn to the community as we wonder where RRT is.
Needless to say I've been really happy with Rivet Wars. It may be the KS that I've been most satisfied with out of any I've backed, though part of that is probably due to the fact that I received Rivet Wars and Deadzone at the same time, and it really isn't that close in terms of quality. I think, after the initial delay due to the problems with the bases, they were right on their second estimated target. I got mine in December.
With that being said, I believe Rivet Wars was the first project to specifically limit it's scope and "cap out," as it were, on the stretch goals for CMON. That pattern was followed by Wrath of Kings and I think the sports game they're doing (I don't know, I can't really stand sports miniatures games, so I didn't back it). That's a good choice. It's also one that Ninja Pop seems to be going with for Forgotten King, which to me, is a really good thing. It doesn't reinstill all the lost confidence, but it does help.
Truth be told, based on the photos we're seeing of the minis for Arcadia quest, it looks like the moulding and tooling for, at the very least, the base game may already be done, as the models we're seeing in photos LOOK to be plastic casts, based on the shallower depth of detail (this isn't a knock, just reality compared to resin) and the mould lines on the bases that look real similar to the mould lines on similar "board game miniatures" products.
We are here today to talk about Monsters. The first thing you need to know is that they are the bad guys. Ya, Really! In Arcadia Quest, there is no such thing as a Monster Turn or Game Master. The Monsters work on a simple Reaction basis. Reaction is triggered when a Monster is attacked, when a Hero leaves a Space that is Close to a Monster, or when a Hero ignores a Close Monster, attacking another target. Once activated, the Monster will follow very simple rules and will be controlled by the player to the right of the active player.
Each different type of monster has a few cards showing its stats at different levels (they level up as the campaign progresses). Some monsters may have a special ability that gives them a special game mechanic. The base stats are Life (the heart), Overkill (the skull), Defense (the arrow) and Reward (the coin) (we will deal with Movement and Attack in a future update). Life works exactly as if does for the Heroes, indicating how many Wounds are necessary to kill the Monster. But killing a Monster doesn't mean it won't strike back at you with its final breath. That's where the next stat comes in: Overkill shows how many wounds a single attack needs to inflict to kill the Monster immediately and prevent it from retaliating. Killing a Monster and not being attacked back? Sweet! Defense also works exactly as it does for the Heroes and indicates how many Defense dice the Monster rolls whenever it is attacked, in an attempt to cancel the hits received (only the more powerful monsters have Defense). And Reward, well, you deserve to gain some coins whenever you kill a bad guy, right? So when a Hero deals the final blow and kills the Monster, he (or she) will get the amount of Coins indicated on that Monster's card. Ka-ching!
Some powerful Monsters are called Villains and they can wreak havoc when they arrive! They work exactly the same way as the other monsters with the exception that all players who have inflicted wounds on that Monster will get the full Coin reward when that Monster is killed.
Finally, when a Monster is killed it is placed on the Spawn Tile. When the Spawn Tile is full, the active player must do a Monster Spawn. He will roll two attack dice for each Monster on the tile and compare the result to the symbols on the Spawn Tokens scattered around the board. There are two possible results: each Monster either spawns back on the board or is permanently removed from the game. This means you never know if the monster threat has been vanquished or if they're just biding their time.
So, get ready to sharpen your swords and join the action, because Arcadia is crawling with enemies!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The guys at Back It! Did a live streaming interview yesterday with us where we talk all things Arcadia Quest! Stay tuned, more updates later today.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Project Update #13: The Wait Is Over! The Gameplay Video Is Here!
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
We’re happy to announce the Arcadia Quest gameplay video is up and ready for your viewing pleasure! We’re stoked that the guys at Jogando Offline got to play Arcadia Quest! Jogando Offline is a very popular board gaming reviews, previews, and news YouTube channel in Brazil. When Spaghetti Western Games came to them, the team at Jogando Offline jumped at the chance to play Arcadia Quest! This video will give you details into how the game plays, the unique mechanics it offers, while also showcasing how quest completion, PvPvE, special abilities, and loot work in the game! Also, thanks to the team at Jogando, it’s a lot of fun to watch.
If you enjoyed this video check out more of Jogando Offline's videos here! Just bear in mind that they do most of their videos in their native language of Portuguese.
That gameplay is hot. While Co-Op is fun... I do think lots of board gamers expect PVP. It is always a hassle straddling the fence between RPGers/Board gamers/War gamers.
It actually reminds me a lot of a old 'freeware' game a guy wrote called Dungeoncrawl which is a decent D20ish 'party vs party' dungeon game. The 'Player to the left controls the monsters' works pretty well in those types of games.
This seems like it might be the polar opposite of a Co-Op dungeon crawl... Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I can see this being more accepted with board gamers where Myth/SDE being for more RPGers.
cincydooley wrote: It may be the KS that I've been most satisfied with out of any I've backed, though part of that is probably due to the fact that I received Rivet Wars and Deadzone at the same time, and it really isn't that close in terms of quality.
Wait- you're saying the Rivet Wars models are way ahead of Deadzone models in terms of quality, is that right?
cincydooley wrote: It may be the KS that I've been most satisfied with out of any I've backed, though part of that is probably due to the fact that I received Rivet Wars and Deadzone at the same time, and it really isn't that close in terms of quality.
Wait- you're saying the Rivet Wars models are way ahead of Deadzone models in terms of quality, is that right?
Unequivocally. I sold Deadzone less than a week after I got it, I was so disappointed. And I basically hoard everything.
I really enjoyed the gameplay video, though to be fair, I only half watched as it was in the background. I really, really, really like the campaign stuff at the end. Seems really fun.
Well, that certainly solidifies that I won't be going for Dreadball Extreme... thanks for the heads up! It's so hard to know what the casting quality is going to be like for these campaigns (i.e. even CMON's efforts such as Sedition Wars, not just Mantic). Makes me want to just avoid PVC entirely...
RiTides wrote: Well, that certainly solidifies that I won't be going for Dreadball Extreme... thanks for the heads up! It's so hard to know what the casting quality is going to be like for these campaigns (i.e. even CMON's efforts such as Sedition Wars, not just Mantic). Makes me want to just avoid PVC entirely...
The quality was just absurdly inconsistent. The Plague stuff wasn't bad. The Orks were actually really solid. But my Enforcers and Rebs were terrible. Just terrible. I cleaned and assembled about 1/3 of my rebs and had to quit I was so irritated. As a comparison, I'd put the Sedition Wars stuff in between the Plague and the Orks, but well above the other two.
I encourage you all to check out the Rivet Wars models at Adepticon if you go; they're just delightful.
Well, we don't know how the boardgame plastic stuff will pan out, so it does still requires a combination of caution and blind faith on the models turning out well...
To show that I don't have a dog in the fight, I'd like to throw this site your way. I participated in Tyson's KS for the SDE 3D boards last year or so, and got a good bit of chibi style scenery. He's looking like he is in on this one as well.
Whats good for one chibi game is always good for another. If I was so inclined... and I am, I intend to contact him again and point him in this games direction, so he can get his hindquarters to work on the next batch of chibi fantasy stuffs..... ( he does some great work.)
I'm not a fan of the figures, the game, or CMON, but I am a fan of pushing a good product that would go great with these guys as well. ( I still think they look like GUTZ, or M.U.S.C.L.E. guys. )
I think it looks a little like Krosmaster, which is more of a collectible game I think, but the figures look about proportioned the same. Don't know anything about gameplay.
The Krosmaster stuff is twice the size though, pre-painted and at a higher price point. Although the $6 they were quoting for machine-painted figures for this would make things comparable.
I'm not sure what to think of the models - I actually increasingly like the grotesque style, but it combined with the small tiles certainly does not make for a universally attractive game. But then, I'd have said that about Rivet Wars, and people love the look of that thing!
I was just comparing it in looks of the figures to Krosmaster, not size or anything else.
My kids like the looks of this one, and it seems like it will be a quick, competitive game. Really liking all the sculpts of the tokens, they'll make the game very nice. Going to have to buy lots of the coins, haha.
We are back again! This time, we’ll talk about another very cool feature of the game: Upgrade Cards. These are basically all the awesome equipment and extra abilities that Heroes use during the game to attack other Heroes or Monsters, defend from incoming attacks, or generally do cool unique stuff. Among these cards, you’ll find many weapons, armor, items and spells. In fact, Upgrade cards come in three types: Attack Cards, Boost Cards and Permanent Cards. Attack Cards can be Melee or Ranged and are used to.. well.. attack others! Boost cards can’t be used on their own, but they can greatly improve the power of an Attack card used in conjunction with it. Permanent Cards are always in effect, just like a Hero’s Natural Ability. It should be noted that, in order to activate an Attack or Boost Card, a player must first Exhaust it, by placing one of his Guild tokens on it. But don’t worry about that just now, we’ll talk about Exhausting soon!
Each player starts the Campaign with the same 5 Starter Cards. The players can distribute these cards among his 3 Heroes in any way he wants, as long as he respects the maximum limit of 4 cards per Hero.
Upgrade Cards
At the end of each scenario, an Upgrade Phase takes place, in which all players are able to spend their hard earned coins to buy cool new cards, thus upgrading their Heroes. In a campaign, each scenario is associated with an Upgrade Deck. So, if you have just played your first scenario, you will be able to buy cards from the Level 1 Upgrade Deck. If you played your second scenario, you will buy from the Level 2 Upgrade Deck and so on. The new cards, together with the ones that you already had and your Heroes’ abilities can combine to create powerful and unexpected combos!
For example: Crushing Gauntlet boosts Grom, then Grom crushes you with Frostbite.
Each scenario contains at least one Quest with Reward Cards associated with it. These are very special items that can only be acquired by accomplishing that specific Quest! Reward Cards can be immediately placed in the inventory of any of that Guild’s Heroes - the new and shiny card is ready to be used right away.
Epicness awaits as you advance through the upgrade decks!
Though I'm not ready to believe anything from Mantic just yet.
OT here - I'm tempted by this one.
It looks like it could be a lot of fun...
Any particular reason why I should or should not get in on this one?
Why yes - Personally, I think it looks like a blast. Rules seem simple enough to be a fun beer and pretzels adventure. I really like what I saw from that campaign sheet. CMoN last board game effort in rivet wars was top notch; you know the components will be top notch; if Zombicide and rivet wars are any indication it will be well supported.
Why not - you don't like dungeon-crawly type games; you don't like/trust CMoN still; you are short on cash; you're inexplicably choosing Dreadball extreme; you don't like fun; you don't like the aesthetic.
According to the gameplay video, only the miniatures are final, so who knows.
I do know a touch of "terrain" in plastic, etc, just to give the game space some "pop" would be nicely appreciated. I actually like the aesthetic, love how simple the rules are, but also dislike the tiles immensely.
I have to say I got bored half way through the gameplay video and switched it off it's a bit too repetitive and the monsters seem to have little to do other than wait to be attacked but that could just be how that particular group played it. There's been a lot of comments about the inanimate monsters today.
This will come down to value for money on the minis and 3D counters I think as I can't see myself staying interested in the game for long but have plenty of use for the counters and minis.
Well, as others have said, the monsters seem almost incidental so far. They don't "do" much, and are more a twist/asset for player-vs-player tactics, which the game seems to really be about.
If anything it seems like a slightly smarter, more tactically interesting Krosmaster Arena.
Hey guys, we have seen you guys asking about size comparison and scale. So we took this picture to give you an idea of the scale of the miniatures. The smaller creatures are on a 25mm base and the bigger guys are on a 40mm base. I hope that clears things up!
No news on monsters changing (and I'd doubt it will happen), but one of the designers has mentioned getting a rules pdf up before things end
and update
For the cardboard replacement completionists amongst you, we are improving the Goldilocks Token Pack ($12) with a free upgrade of EIGHTY GUILD TOKENS if we hit this stretch! That's a lot of plastic!
But wait, there's more!
Nobody paid much attention when Dr. Spider was expelled from Arcadia University for excessive experiments into Necromancy. Even Lord Fang ignored him after taking over the city, and the bad Doctor pillaged the cemeteries and mausoleums of Arcadia for test subjects. Obsessed with his experiments, Dr. Spider retreated to his secret lab and worked long hours to tease the secret of immortality from the universe, and to prove, once and for all, that he should have fame, fortune, and (most importantly) tenure! The accidental revivification of the Dread King to his mortal form was merely a side effect! Nothing to worry about. … Well, nothing for Dr. Spider to worry about. That's what heroes are for, right?
Beyond the Grave is an expansion to Arcadia Quest that takes place after the overthrow of Lord Fang. Arcadians really can't catch a break as zombies, skeletons, ghosts, ghouls, mad scientists (and their creations) and an ancient evil take over the city! … AGAIN!
Beyond the Grave contains: •- Brand new campaign •- 3 new tiles •- New Upgrade cards •- New Quest cards •- New Tombstone cards with a new game mechanic •- 2 new Heroes •- 22 new Monster figures
Dr Spider master model
Frank master model
Chaz!
MSRP - $60
Arcadia Quest: Beyond the Grave features an entirely new deck of Tombstone cards! This is a new deck of cards that are put directly into the map according to the Scenario and add a variety of exciting new events and effects that interact with Monsters and Heroes alike!
We're offering the Beyond the Grave expansion for 20% off our proposed MSRP of $60! Just add it to your pledge and we'll sort it out after the campaign ends through our pledge manager.
But wait, there's even more!
"Fear my gaze. FEAR IT!!!"
A medusa-in-training, Elysia's powers are coming along nicely. But, she hadn't quite earned her master's degree when the invasion banished everyone from Arcadia. She can stun with a look, but, alas, her career as a 'real-life' sculptor is on hold. (Yes, 'real-life'. Not 'still-life'.) While some University students often wondered about the morality of her particular field of study, Professor Morgan assured everyone that she was one of his most promising students. This wasn't the ethical violation they were looking for. We can go about our business. Move along.
Elysia master model
Get this great exclusive Hero free with the Beyond the Grave expansion if we hit this stretch goal!
Well I like this a lot (more monsters is very good).......
but 20% off is pretty much standard discounter price (although you do get the extra hero and I guess it might upgrade a bit more?),
and since this lot are clearly not all sculpted if we hit this I'll bet it means the November ship date slips, and December (xmas production/shipping/customs), January (post Xmas lull) then Feb (Chinese New Year) so my guess would be April
Automatically Appended Next Post: and from the comments I was wrong
CMON
Everything in the expansion has been sculpted, but we don't have pictures of all the master models in acceptable resolution - they're being molded now, but as you can see Chaz is done in production plastic.
so delay worries reduced a lot if not eliminated
Automatically Appended Next Post: We've heard you guys loud and clear! You want Elysia! So in response to your feedback, we're opening up Elysia as an optional buy! So for $10 you'll be able to add Elysia to your rogues gallery of Heroes without the need to purchase the Beyond the Grave campaign!
However, if you buy the Beyond the Grave campaign and we hit the $400k stretch goal then you're going to get Elysia for free!
I like the character villains. Exactly what my chibi bestiary needs.
I suspect the gameplay will appeal to boardgamers who want everyone on equal footing opposed to RPGers or Wargamers who want co-op or story-driven stuff.
Anyone have an idea if those two heroes are based on anything? I love Young Frankenstein and Igor!
It looks like a mish-mash of all my favorite games in one. SDE, City of Thieves, Zombicide, I can even see a little of mansions of madness in there with the Dead cards, and the critical hit dynamic looks like it really ramps up the suspense on dice rolls. Seems like it could be one game to rule them all... Yet I don't see it making quite the splash that Zombicide made for some reason.
With regards to the models, I understand what people are saying about not quite liking them. I think it's because some of them look more bobblehead than chibi, which is kinda cheesy looking (especially Chaz) . And the painted example of Kanga looks a bit fugly, like an Amazon meets Disneys Lilo. That almost put me off buying... but I'm pretty sure it's just the paint job, and with a bit more weight on her eyebrows and lashes she would look more like her artwork.
It would be great to be able to mix and swap these guys with SDE. I haven't seen any scale comparisons yet, but my gut tells me these heroes aren't going to be a match, which is a bit of a shame but they're probably close enough. Some of the bad guys look like they'll be spot on though. Particularly Nameless and the Goblins. The Bowiesque Goblin King also looks like he'd make a great dungeon boss too.
I think I'm pretty much sold on this. Though I can't say the same for the optional extras... $10 for Zahra? seems a bit steep. Is she even a Kickstarter Exclusive?
Alpharius wrote: Is Arcadia PvP only, whereas the new SDE game will have Co-Op?
Co-Op is going to be the determiner for me...
Sounds like this is exactly correct. Most board games are PVP. Everyone is given basically 'the same' resources and you play until someone wins.
Co-Op or RPG/Dungeon stuff is more about the team has different resources but overall work to a common goal.
Different player groups, different expectations. One of the main reasons I get resistance from board gamers for SDE is due to the expectation of 'I have to cooperate? Everyone vs 1 person a Dm? what is that?
I think different strokes for different folks. AQ is Dungeon 'Risk' where SDE is a D&D the board game.
Sounds like this is exactly correct. Most board games are PVP. Everyone is given basically 'the same' resources and you play until someone wins.
That's competitive. Which is different from PVP which is where you not only compete, but can actively attack one another. There are a lot more degrees these days, but sheesh, fundamentals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cincydooley wrote: My wife hates co-op games. She'll play some (like Flashpoint) but if we lose, it inevitiably turns into a hate fest where I'm to blame for the loss.
Mine doesn't mine competitive, but she generally dislikes games where we actively attack one another. On the other hand, she's fine with 2-sided games like X-Wing or LNoE.
Adopting his namesake as a totem after a terrifying encounter in childhood being viciously bitten… err.. gummed by one, the ‘Black Newt’ is the son of a very large and wealthy Arcadian family who had the misfortune of being born last. His sisters were beautiful, his brothers were dashing, and all his elder siblings were intelligent, witty, and noble. Alas, the Black Newt had the heart of a troll. Sniping was his second nature, the cutting barb was his forte, and he even took to stealing their diaries to scrawl snarky comments in the margins. He was eventually disowned. But he had learned swordsmanship to at least a competent degree, and a Guild membership was easy enough for someone of his connections. Ironically, he welcomed the invasion as toady to Lord Fang, but was cast out when he was found scrawling derisive comments beneath graffiti the orcs would leave on each other’s’ walls.
Every Guildmaster and War Paint pledge gets the Black Newt free if we hit this stretch!
I swear you could populate an entire Kickstarter with Brian Blessed knock-offs! So many lovely characters to choose from. Also, seeing the size of some of those expansion creatures, I'm getting a tad...concerned over shipping costs.
What are people's thoughts on the usual CMON exclusive stretch goals? I can't deny that they seem to work, but I'm a bit iffy on them due to:
- frequently relying on unlicensed IPs rather than original designs
- expanding character options but not gameplay elements - making the game wider but not deeper
- the boxed game at retail ceases to be as attractive a proposition if you happen to not go down the Kickstarter route, making it hard to recommend stuff to friends.
- all of that lovely overfunded Kickstarter money is going into one-shot rewards rather than product development.
Sedition Wars produced...a single boxed game, and a single terrain pack that has literally just gone on sale at retail. Zombicide S1 produced a single boxed game with 6 characters. Arcadia is going to have at least one expansion at retail, a major improvement, but I think will still suffer from a lack of character choice - there are 16 exclusives and counting for this project!
What are people's thoughts on the usual CMON exclusive stretch goals? I can't deny that they seem to work, but I'm a bit iffy on them due to:
- frequently relying on unlicensed IPs rather than original designs
this is true, if you're really concerned with IP you'll not get involved, but on the other hand they are generally looky-likeys rather than perfect reproductions so personally I'm ok with that (in the same way I'm OK most of the bits manufacturers)
- expanding character options but not gameplay elements - making the game wider but not deeper
it's straightforward to make a new mini, making significant gameplay changes/additions is really hard, on slip and the whole game becomes unbalanced. (also a significant number of backers will be in it for the minis for other uses, extra game is no use to them, CMON realise this and tend to add to both)
- the boxed game at retail ceases to be as attractive a proposition if you happen to not go down the Kickstarter route, making it hard to recommend stuff to friends.
If the game is genuinely good recommend away (you can always proxy eg all the zombicide special characters cards can be downloaded and printed).
People who have to get everything (and who are not prepared to resort to ebay or similar) will be stuck, but then they'd be in the same position if they wanted to get into many wargames (loads have out of production models)
- all of that lovely overfunded Kickstarter money is going into one-shot rewards rather than product development
there are certainly some cases of this, but in general a well run KS (and CMONs are in a financial way anyway) will set stretches so as to more than pay for the one shot item.
So there is extra cash for the main game (or the next supplement or KS), and the fact that there are exclusives brings in money that would not otherwise have been spent(eg backers who want to resell, backers who have to have everything, fans of whatever firefly/brian blessed/black adder or whatever)
it also produced stuff to use as convention exclusives which many companies would do anyway, this way they get them done for free, and can use them to promote the new game at the next run of cons
- the boxed game at retail ceases to be as attractive a proposition if you happen to not go down the Kickstarter route, making it hard to recommend stuff to friends.
I hear what you're saying here, because it's a very real "concern", but I think it's a bunch of nonsense BECAUSE these exclusives add to the width and not the depth of the game. The zombiecide survivors, for example, are really just extra dudes that have a different assortment of abilities that you can find on other survivors
I really only see this as a problem in regards to people that are anal retentive completionists.
I like what Rivet Wars will be doing. Taking a lot of those overfunded stretch goals and boxing them up to make actual expansion product.
Sure there were a bunch of exclusive heroes, but if I remember correctly a lot of them would be recast in different colors or material or something like that.
We still have a few days to go. I doubt CMON has shown everything they've got.
Yes, the completionists are the only ones who are going to be upset. And that is getting harder to do for some of the obscure games/companies doing KS's out there.
I think we'll see a big difference between this KS and SDE's KS, as far as stretch goals go. SPM has already said they have a finite number of stretch goals, so that could generate some animosity when they hit it, and then just collect money above that last goal. At least CMON keeps rolling them out with preplanned stuff, and they should (hopefully) have the backside figured out, and be able to get this stuff out on time.
I'll give Sodapop the benefit of a doubt (not sure why considering their KS track record), but I would imagine they've got things pretty far planned out as well.
Nobody likes when the campaign ends with a whimper instead of a bang- Wrath of Kings and Rivet Wars were guilty of this I thought. Then again, they did have some nice final goals as thank yous to the backers.
It's going to be interesting seeing how similar or divergent SDE and Arcadia run, considering they are both probably chasing after the same piece of the pie.
(The pessimist in me could see CMON rolling out solo/ true coop rules as a counterpoint to SDE, since that's going to be a big selling point for Forgotten King vs the base game.)
Cyporiean wrote: Likely its Blessed, since 'Black Newt' is a Blackadder parody
Yeah, I'm almost certain its supposed to be Brian Blessed.
I think he is probably a bit of both. The style of the crown, the orange circle on his breast, the python quote, and the name 'Aaron', make me think that the creators probably drew some inspiration from Arthur for the concept.
The face clearly looks more like Brian Blessed though, and that fits with the Black Adder reference. He certainly looks way too gruff and angry to be Graham Chapman (AKA the messiah).
Here is the rules draft as they stand today - it's still being edited for language, diagram clarity and contents. Note internal components do not reflect the stretch goals. Have a look!
Alpharius wrote: Will someone quickly dissect and review this please?
I have to figure out if I want to pledge here, or hold off and wait for the upcoming SDEKS!
Basic Story of the universe:
*Planet was split into day and night. Elves were happy on the day side, Monsters happy on the night side.
*The gods made humans, Humans did stuff.
*A King made a grand city of Arcadia with a temple which put the sun and moon into motion. This meant daytime for the monsters and nighttime for the elves. Everyone got pissed off.
*A vampire who misses his eternal night got mad, sieged the city, and a whole bunch of monsters also moved in. Now the world is in eternal night. The monsters like living in houses and have a 'I smash your face and take your stuff' based economy.
*YOU* are a guild looking to overtake the city and become rich and famous for doing so!
So it basically sounds like the entirety of the game is raiding the city (MMORPG style) and trashing mobs who are basically on guard duty. Named mobs are more active and walk around like heroes do. Mobs come in 4 levels so the orcs and such level up closer you get to the center.
You start off with 3 heroes and 5 static pieces of loot. Everyone is pretty much 'equal'. Every turn you get to activate 1 hero, or you can 'rest' which is when your attacks get 'unspent' and heroes can be revived. Seems very much focused around 'players take their turns' like monopoly.
Campaigns are basically a series of games, and closer to the center of the city you get, stronger stuff gets.
Sounds fun to me. Sounds pretty quick to 'pick up' for a dungeoncrawl game. Also has a 'one-off' playstyle where basically whomever has the most coins 'wins'. I think this would be easy to play as a pick-up game opposed to MYTH which may be heavy for casuals.
The rules are fairly well-done and seem about as light as a boardgame. I feel like people wouldn't need to read the rules to pick up this game if someone was narrating the rules from memory.
Alpharius wrote: Will someone quickly dissect and review this please?
I have to figure out if I want to pledge here, or hold off and wait for the upcoming SDEKS!
First Impressions:
1. The Rules are clean and well laid out. Lots of diagrams and scenarios.
2. The overall rules for the game are pretty simple, which I don't think is a bad thing. You have two primary things you can do on your turn: Activate Heros and Rest your guild. I didn't expect this, and its actually a nice surprise. Basically, once you use a weapon, it's exhausted until you use your entire turn to "rest" your guild. You can also swap loot between heroes and Resurrect dead heroes during this time. It looks like balancing your rest with your activations will be a nice little press your luck aspect of the game.
3. Monster activiations are simple, but force you to pay attention to what you're doing. Monsters activate only when you leave a square 'close' to them (adjacent or in) or are in a close space and attack someone else. They basically get to take free shots at you if you dismiss them, which I thought was kinda cool. Its a simple mechanic, but looks like it'll be effective as a buffer between the PVP action people are going to want to do.
4. The campaign system looks really, really fun. I like the notion that your characters "grow" even it is simply, and its pretty neat that completing quests in one scenario will carry on later to benefit you. The notion of achievements also makes it pretty neat, so even if you don't "win" the campaign you can still have some accomplishment. The Death Curses are also kinda funny, and do a good job of holding folks to some accountability for being a Leroy Jenkins in the game.
Overall, the game isn't hugely complicated, but I don't see that as a bad thing. The rules are really really clear and look like they're going to be super easy to teach to non-gamers. I like that the game seems uncomplicated, and it looks like figuring out card combos is also going to be pretty fun.
nkelsch wrote: Sounds fun to me. Sounds pretty quick to 'pick up' for a dungeoncrawl game. Also has a 'one-off' playstyle where basically whomever has the most coins 'wins'. I think this would be easy to play as a pick-up game opposed to MYTH which may be heavy for casuals.
The rules are fairly well-done and seem about as light as a boardgame. I feel like people wouldn't need to read the rules to pick up this game if someone was narrating the rules from memory.
Agreed with both of these points quite a bit. This game isn't Descent or Myth, and It doesn't seem like its trying to be. Sounds like a fun little game to drink a few beers and play.
How does that work if there is no 1 dollar pledge level?
Do you just put in 1 dollar and select the no reward level and you still get access to the pledge manager in a couple of months?
Is this normal for a CMON kickstarter? I've somehow managed to avoid backing one of their kickstarters until now:-)
Nicktor wrote: How does that work if there is no 1 dollar pledge level?
Do you just put in 1 dollar and select the no reward level and you still get access to the pledge manager in a couple of months?
Is this normal for a CMON kickstarter? I've somehow managed to avoid backing one of their kickstarters until now:-)
Is what normal? Could you clarify your question just a bit?
Nicktor wrote: How does that work if there is no 1 dollar pledge level?
Do you just put in 1 dollar and select the no reward level and you still get access to the pledge manager in a couple of months?
Is this normal for a CMON kickstarter? I've somehow managed to avoid backing one of their kickstarters until now:-)
With Sedition Wars, all I did was send them a message with my email address and asking for my name to be added to the pledge manager.
What I meant is that with most of the kickstarters I've followed/backed there generally was a 1 to 5 dollar pledge just to follow the campaign and get access to the pledge manager.
CMON does not have that with this kickstarter and I was wondering whether they never have such a pledge or whether they had specifically omitted one for this kickstarter.
Basically I was too lazy to check their previous kickstarters and wanted someone to do that for me I've checked and they generally don't have a low pledge level, so there nothing different for this kickstarter.
So I'll put in a dollar and send them a mail and decide which Chibi game to back later.
Nicktor wrote: How does that work if there is no 1 dollar pledge level?
Do you just put in 1 dollar and select the no reward level and you still get access to the pledge manager in a couple of months?
Is this normal for a CMON kickstarter? I've somehow managed to avoid backing one of their kickstarters until now:-)
You HAVE to back at a recognised pledge level, otherwise KS does not pass your details on to the project creator
since this KS does not have the $1 'I just want to help' level which previous CMON projects have had it does not look like they want people putting in a token amount and waiting for the pledge manager this time round
(you could always contact them to see if it's possible and they've just forgotten to include it, but I don't think so this time)
My recommendation would be to just pledge the $100 if you can.
Firstly, because games like this are nearly always a good investment. I have loads of games and miniatures that I bought in the 90s like Space Hulk, Space Crusade etc... All of them are worth as much or more than I payed for them (even in used condition and allowing for inflation). I wish the same were true of my computer games and electronics from the 90s, but that stuff is just junk now. Miniature games, on the other hand, hold their value well. Even non-GW stuff like Confrontation will cost you both your kidneys and your firstborn now (if you can even find it).
Secondly, these kickstarters are excellent value to start with. And this one seems to be one of the better ones. For what is probably the cost of the retail game (at least in the UK), you get the expansion and a load of limited editions thrown in. My friend just recently sold off her extra Zombicide 2 stuff. She paid something like £102 for the kickstarter, and she sold off the extra bits for £170 a few months later. And she still has the game! And there is still more limited edition stuff to come in the 2nd wave. That's over 100% return in a few months, it was predictable, and almost no risk. Wallstreet guys would goo their pants at those kind of odds.
I don't know if this will turn out to be quite as popular as Zombicide, but there is no way that you would end up with less than you paid if you decide you want to ebay it later. Not for exclusives, which are probably going to be sought-after by SDE players too... And we know with the new Forgotten-King kickstarter about to drop, interest in SDE is about to hit 11. Also the not Harry Potter figures are going to be valuable, and with this you get spares.
Unless you are on such tight budget that you can't afford to invest a $100 in this for a few months without breaking the bank, I think it would be foolish not to pledge. Even if parents/wife have you on a short leash. Show them what the Zombicide figures fetch on ebay these days.
Smacks advice isn't bad- I ended up selling nearly everything from my Kings of War pledge and more than doubled my investment. And demand for a lot of Mantic's stuff isn't particularly high.
That said - it's very likely to be more than a "couple months" - and it does take a fair bit of time ebaying and going to the post office and whatnot.
Smacks wrote: My recommendation would be to just pledge the $100 if you can.
Firstly, because games like this are nearly always a good investment. I have loads of games and miniatures that I bought in the 90s like Space Hulk, Space Crusade etc... All of them are worth as much or more than I payed for them (even in used condition and allowing for inflation). I wish the same were true of my computer games and electronics from the 90s, but that stuff is just junk now. Miniature games, on the other hand, hold their value well. Even non-GW stuff like Confrontation will cost you both your kidneys and your firstborn now (if you can even find it).
Secondly, these kickstarters are excellent value to start with. And this one seems to be one of the better ones. For what is probably the cost of the retail game (at least in the UK), you get the expansion and a load of limited editions thrown in. My friend just recently sold off her extra Zombicide 2 stuff. She paid something like £102 for the kickstarter, and she sold off the extra bits for £170 a few months later. And she still has the game! And there is still more limited edition stuff to come in the 2nd wave. That's over 100% return in a few months, it was predictable, and almost no risk. Wallstreet guys would goo their pants at those kind of odds.
I don't know if this will turn out to be quite as popular as Zombicide, but there is no way that you would end up with less than you paid if you decide you want to ebay it later. Not for exclusives, which are probably going to be sought-after by SDE players too... And we know with the new Forgotten-King kickstarter about to drop, interest in SDE is about to hit 11. Also the not Harry Potter figures are going to be valuable, and with this you get spares.
Unless you are on such tight budget that you can't afford to invest a $100 in this for a few months without breaking the bank, I think it would be foolish not to pledge. Even if parents/wife have you on a short leash. Show them what the Zombicide figures fetch on ebay these days.
Investment? If you want to invest in items for real, try property or stocks, not toys, board games, comics and star wars figures. I also don't purchase electronics as "investments" (does anyone?), but as technology to use when it's bought. I've gotten a lot more value and use out of the computer I'm typing this on than any miniatures I own, and I've been into miniatures for more than 30 years. The KS are generally very good value if you live in the US, but the shipping costs can hurt. You'll be paying a big chunk of VAT on top of the value of the game, plus postage, which won't be insubstantial.
It won't be anywhere near as popular as Zombicide. Zombicide is somehow the gold standard for that sort of thing, along with Kingdom Death. Zombies are a lot higher on the cultural radar right now than Harry Potter (or super-deformed not-Harry Potter-alikes). There's always the chance that it'll backfire horribly (Sedition Wars, anyone?) though I'd hope the chances of that are much reduced now. But yeah, it's not $100. It's going to be quite a bit more with VAT and postage, and it's not going to be a "couple months". It'll be next year sometime - and probably close to a 12-month turnaround at the least. Which is, you know, fine and all. But it's not "a few months".
The KoW days are long over. That was a case of Mantic being very new to it all, and just continuing to throw items at the screen for dirt cheap (or free) as stretches as it blew up. Those same models go for a lot more then free at retail, even discounted retail.
I think CMON have done quite a few of these now, and they must be learning. This one looks a lot more finished than many of the previous kickstarters. With all the minis already sculpted and cast, even for Beyond the Grave (allegedly). It feels more like a pre-order than something that might still have a lot of development related delays. I'm actually 'fairly' optimistic about this one landing before Christmas.
With regards to ebay: my friend did her Zombicide stuff in 3 lots 'buy it now'. I think it was something like £30 for the extra Zombies, £100 for the 5 promo survivors, and £40 for Leah. I think everything sold in a matter of hours (though Zombicide was pretty crazy like that). I imagine she could have got more if she had auctioned everything off individually, but she was content to just get the game for free.
I have seen other people just selling the whole lot in one go, and they seem to do okay. I'm not sure if that was possible with Kings of War? I know I certainly wouldn't fancy the prospect of trying to double my money on project Pandora .
Investment? If you want to invest in items for real, try property or stocks, not toys, board games, comics and star wars figures.
I'm not talking about investing in games for your retirement or something (seriously? what the hell?). Personally I don't sell my stuff anyway, because I enjoy playing with it. But since almost everything else in our lives is disposable, and becomes worthless once owned or outdated, it' is easy to think of money spent as money gone. I'm just pointing out that that is not true with boardgames, they hold their value well, and can easily go up once they are OOP. Also taking $100 and trying to double it on stock in less than a year is not necessarily easy or work/risk free. I'd rather do like my friend did at get a completely free game + some bonus money, how is that ever a bad thing?
Also I never said a 'couple of months'. I said a 'few months' because the time is going to be measured in months, not years (even if it does end up being 14 months). I'm hardly going to say 'a few years' or a 'few hours' because those units are not appropriate, months is correct. I'm not trying to downplay the time scales.
The KS are generally very good value if you live in the US, but the shipping costs can hurt. You'll be paying a big chunk of VAT on top of the value of the game, plus postage, which won't be insubstantial.
Wait I thought they had learned their lesson with the VAT thing? Which was why everything was being posted from local hubs etc... I certainly didn't pay any extra VAT on Zombicide, and postage from Germany shouldn't rightly be that expensive.
EDIT: I just looked at the Q&A, and it says postage to the UK is 12 euros, + 5 for import fees etc... 17euros is less than the $30 for Zombicide, which actually ended up being $60 for me (as I also got a second pledge for someone else). With the new system the postage on the 2nd pledge would have been considerably cheaper.
It won't be anywhere near as popular as Zombicide. Zombicide is somehow the gold standard for that sort of thing, along with Kingdom Death. Zombies are a lot higher on the cultural radar right now than Harry Potter (or super-deformed not-Harry Potter-alikes). There's always the chance that it'll backfire horribly (Sedition Wars, anyone?) though I'd hope the chances of that are much reduced now.
It doesn't really matter how popular it is, as the popularity will be proportional to the number of people involved in the kickstarter, less popular equals more rare. And the retail cost will be the same as all games anyway. Like I said: my friend sold Leah for £40, which is comparable to what you'd pay for one of the Zomicide 1 promos, even though ebay was flooded with Zombicide 2 stuff. If anything the popularity made the figures worth a bit less.>
Smacks wrote: I think CMON have done quite a few of these now, and they must be learning. This one looks a lot more finished than many of the previous kickstarters. With all the minis already sculpted and cast, even for Beyond the Grave (allegedly). It feels more like a pre-order than something that might still have a lot of development related delays. I'm actually 'fairly' optimistic about this one landing before Christmas.
I do agree with you that they're much more polished and experienced, though the way they handled Zombicide S2 was far from impressive. I had to get help from a forum member here who is mates with their upper echelon to get my missing stuff (that was the S1 box, and my second Toxic City Mall and Prison Break boxes sent out. It took over a month to get my missing stuff sent out, and if I hadn't gotten help from a fellow Dakkanaught, it would surely have been another month or so. Terrance was taking 7-10 days to respond to my emails, and promised at least twice to "send it out on Monday" to no effect. - you can see how that can easily add up to another month. If they're aiming for September, you'll be very lucky to see it in December, and more likely after Chinese New Year. That's not snark, it's just speaking from KS-experience and knowledge of how so many of these projects keep going.
With regards to ebay: my friend did her Zombicide stuff in 3 lots 'buy it now'. I think it was something like £30 for the extra Zombies, £100 for the 5 promo survivors, and £40 for Leah. I think everything sold in a matter of hours (though Zombicide was pretty crazy like that). I imagine she could have got more if she had auctioned everything off individually, but she was content to just get the game for free.
I have seen other people just selling the whole lot in one go, and they seem to do okay. I'm not sure if that was possible with Kings of War? I know I certainly wouldn't fancy the prospect of trying to double my money on project Pandora .
Oh, I believe you on the Zombicide stuff. It's just that ZC (and KD) seem to be where the crazy stuff happens. So it's not nearly the norm there. KoW's freebies were a real mish-mash, but of course, getting buckets of figures for free made it reasonably easy to make a profit back from them, even sold at a substantial discount from RRP. I went in for a ton on Pandora, and it wasn't exactly a pleasant experience... though I hold McVey and CMON equally accountable for that clusterfeth.
I'm not talking about investing in games for your retirement or something (seriously? what the hell?). Personally I don't sell my stuff anyway, because I enjoy playing with it. But since almost everything else in our lives is disposable, and becomes worthless once owned or outdated, it' is easy to think of money spent as money gone. I'm just pointing out that that is not true with boardgames, they hold their value well, and can easily go up once they are OOP. Also taking $100 and trying to double it on stock in less than a year is not necessarily easy or work/risk free. I'd rather do like my friend did at get a completely free game + some bonus money, how is that ever a bad thing?
Well, you used the word "investment", and we know that a lot of people do "invest" in things like comics, toys, etc thinking that they're going to flip them down the line for serious money. So I was reading a different meaning into your statement, by the look of things. Internet misunderstanding.
I mean, I do understand what you mean - aside from things like antiques and fossils and a few heirlooms, a lot of the oldest things that I still own at this stage of my life are old RT and pre-RT miniatures, and certainly most of the things that I've owned the longest - ie since my childhood are miniatures (and my pull-string talking Bugs Bunny). And those old Imperial Army and 1st Gen Terminators and WFB 2nd edition Elves and Orcs still work as well on the tabletop as they ever did - and my 1st-Edition Space Hulk still works well on the table top as it ever did. Then again, I tend to get more use out of the technology I buy, disposable and obsolete as it might become. Probably my first "major" purchase as a teenager was selling my large Imperial Guard army made up of the original RT metals, along with Squats, Beastmen and so forth for $400 so I could buy an Amiga 500 of my dickish bother-in-law. Do I regret it? Kinda yes, but on balance, no. Even though I'd rather have those old IG figures now than an A500, the Amiga gave me years of constant entertainment, and really paid for itself.
Also I never said a 'couple of months'. The time is going to be measured in months, not years (even if it does end up being 14 months). I'm not trying to downplay the time scales.
OK, you said "a few months". I was re-reading from schmapi's post there. My bad. Though I still think a year for fulfilment is much more realistic.
It doesn't really matter how popular it is, as the popularity will be proportional to the number of people involved in the kickstarter, less rare. And the retail cost will be the same as all games anyway. Like I said: my friend sold Leah for £40, which is comparable to what you'd pay for one of the Zomicide 1 promos, even though ebay was flooded with Zombicide 2 stuff. If anything the popularity made the figures worth a bit less.>
Well, it does matter how popular it is. Because that's what makes the figures sought after or not later. I don't think the Arcadia exclusives will be anywhere near as sought after as Leah, but then they definitely will be more in demand than Dr. Hexen Phaedrus.
Azazelx wrote: So I was reading a different meaning into your statement, by the look of things. Internet misunderstanding.
Oh, hey no problem! . I'm sorry too if I came across argumentative, the little face-palm icon put me on the defensive a little.
I think I just used 'investment' for lack of a better word. I've spent so much on miniatures and games through the years (as I'm sure a lot of us have). I think knowing that they are still valuable is one of my few comforts. And I still do get a fair bit of use out of them, and even painting them doesn't necessarily hurt the value. It's nice that you can have something and enjoy it, and still be able to get a good bit of your money back at the end. That hasn't been the case with all my electronics sadly, and it's especially heartbreaking when you end up not really using something enough, and then it breaks just out of warranty, or the battery needs replacing because it was flat for so long *sigh*.
I agree that these figures probably won't go for anything close to the Zombicide promos. But they don't don't have to really. I don't think £8 would be unrealistic, and for 9 promo figures that would cover the cost of the game.
Azazelx wrote: So I was reading a different meaning into your statement, by the look of things. Internet misunderstanding.
Oh, hey no problem! . I'm sorry too if I came across argumentative, the little face-palm icon put me on the defensive a little.
I think I just used 'investment' for lack of a better word. I've spent so much on miniatures and games through the years (as I'm sure a lot of us have). I think knowing that they are still valuable is one of my few comforts. And I still do get a fair bit of use out of them, and even painting them doesn't necessarily hurt the value. It's nice that you can have something and enjoy it, and still be able to get a good bit of your money back at the end. That hasn't been the case with all my electronics sadly, and it's especially heartbreaking when you end up not really using something enough, and then it breaks just out of warranty, or the battery needs replacing because it was flat for so long *sigh*.
I guess I see what you mean there, though I see hobby money as "money spent" really. I'll probably never sell any of my models. Aside from the odd one I paint for charity, I prefer not to part with any of them. Might be a combination of the Amiga-thing, knowing how hard they can be to find and replace (if at all), and my rampant collecting OCD.
I agree that these figures probably won't go for anything close to the Zombicide promos. But they don't don't have to really. I don't think £8 would be unrealistic, and for 9 promo figures that would cover the cost of the game.
So out of interest, do you think you might pick up extras of the exclusives to cover your KS costs?
As a ridiculous aside, my initial Zombicide Season 1 Pledge went for....$1800 on ebay.
I bought another copy, for myself, but I wasn't so attached to the promos that I was foolish enough to not give it an eBay whirl when I saw that lots were creeping close to $1000.
The Funniest part? I had my BiN set at $800.
We were at adepticon as the number continued to climb. Needless to say I paid for lunch that afternoon.
Azazelx wrote: So out of interest, do you think you might pick up extras of the exclusives to cover your KS costs?
You mean like a second pledge, just to sell?
With Zombicide 2 I got a second pledge and did that. But that was largely because my friend really wanted the game but couldn't afford it. She was happy to deal with the ebaying and pay me back the initial pledge, and she got a free game and +£70 for her trouble, and she also has a few limited editions left over to boot. So that made a lot of sense.
I guess I could do that with Acadia Quest... But I don't know anyone else who wants the game that bad. And since I would already have all the exclusives there isn't much incentive for me personally. I guess it would be a fairly easy $200... It's not exactly a life changing amount of money though.
I was looking over the kickstarter contents just now, trying to decide if I should drop out, when it struck me just how much of it is KS exclusive. Does that make sense to anyone here? Why would CMON do that? It seems less like a crowdfunding endeavor and more a KS-only store front.
Dentry wrote: I was looking over the kickstarter contents just now, trying to decide if I should drop out, when it struck me just how much of it is KS exclusive. Does that make sense to anyone here? Why would CMON do that? It seems less like a crowdfunding endeavor and more a KS-only store front.
Because they don't want people to say 'Huh... looks neat, I will wait for retail'. Some games failed to fund due to people saying 'I will wait for retail'.
Exclusives force people to say 'I will back now and worse comes to worse I can flip it for a profit at fulfillment'. people are flipping 100$ Myth pledges for 400$ right now due to exclusives and people who missed the boat.
If everything is guaranteed to be available later at retail, then it comes down to raw money... and some people are fine waiting and paying more.
If the cost to create the KS exclusives is less than the 40% they lose by selling through a distributor, making a KS only storefront is not a bad plan.
nkelsch wrote: Because they don't want people to say 'Huh... looks neat, I will wait for retail'. Some games failed to fund due to people saying 'I will wait for retail'.
For better or worse, I don't think any CMON game "published" on Kickstarter is in danger of failing to fund... exclusives or not.
skarsol wrote: If the cost to create the KS exclusives is less than the 40% they lose by selling through a distributor, making a KS only storefront is not a bad plan.
Unless said plan leads to distributors and stores deciding to not stock said product!
I gave this one last look over this morning, but the shipping issue really killed it for me. I saw that they've removed the "probably $40 to Australia" part and have now replaced it with ...nothing. Not even a ballpark anymore. How 'bout that gak, nklesch?
The other thing is that even with $40 in the back of my mind, there's no mention of what the addition of the expansion box or extra KS models might do to the total postal cost. - so it really is a completely undefined "It could cost anything!" amount for Aussies now.
Like I said before, I've paid more for international shipping for hobby items than anyone who tries the usual white knight bs on will ever do, so I'm not after a free ride, but a couple of decent, proper estimates that includes info on the $100 level and the $100 set + all the extras. Anything in between can be extrapolated from those two.
Azazelx wrote: I gave this one last look over this morning, but the shipping issue really killed it for me. I saw that they've removed the "probably $40 to Australia" part and have now replaced it with ...nothing. Not even a ballpark anymore. How 'bout that gak, nklesch?
The other thing is that even with $40 in the back of my mind, there's no mention of what the addition of the expansion box or extra KS models might do to the total postal cost. - so it really is a completely undefined "It could cost anything!" amount for Aussies now.
Like I said before, I've paid more for international shipping for hobby items than anyone who tries the usual white knight bs on will ever do, so I'm not after a free ride, but a couple of decent, proper estimates that includes info on the $100 level and the $100 set + all the extras. Anything in between can be extrapolated from those two.
The rewards have grown to more than twice the size... So the shipping is probably more than twice the size... US shipping is now about 20$ Which is twice the size, So I would expect you now get to pay 80$ Which is twice the size. That is how it is. SDE is going to be in the exact same boat. And new KS are moving to this model of "pay what you owe" and "we can't promise shipping costs".
If you don't like it, don't pledge. Other people seem to be getting their estimates just fine... But estimates can and will change, so if you are unwilling to pay what it costs and want a guaranteed set in stone price, you may not be backing KS much after all the KS go to this model to avoid having to eat it on shipping costs.
For those that wonder this is the latest shipping info
We base it on how much it cost to ship our past box game projects, such as Zombicide and Rivet Wars.
In the USA, this works out to about $11 per package when shipped via Fedex Home
In Europe, costs increase the further you go out of Germany. The base cost is around 5 Euros for import and logistics fees, with actual shipping in Germany at under 5 Euros (so 10 Euros total), France, and UK at 12 Euros (17 Euros total), Italy and Spain at 17 Euros (23 Euros total). This is for shipment via the very reliable courier service rather than national post. We'll accept shipping payment for European backers in Euros instead of US$ so as to avoid double conversion fees (your Euros to our US$ to our shipper's Euros... madness!)
In the Asia Pacific region, the base cost is $3, and shipment increases the further out from Shenzhen it is to ship. Hong Kong will be under $10 and Singapore under $20. This is via Fedex international - Australia is particularly expensive for Fedex but we're investigating China Post if you are willing to take the risk of the public post losing your item.
Closer to the ship date, once we have all the weights and box dimensions of unlocked add ons we'll be able to give you all a very clear idea of how much shipping will cost, but we don't expect it to deviate very far from this unless there's a major change in courier rates.
so quite a lot of us have more certain info than before (but those poor Australians have less)
The rewards have grown to more than twice the size... So the shipping is probably more than twice the size... US shipping is now about 20$ Which is twice the size, So I would expect you now get to pay 80$ Which is twice the size. That is how it is. SDE is going to be in the exact same boat. And new KS are moving to this model of "pay what you owe" and "we can't promise shipping costs".
If you don't like it, don't pledge. Other people seem to be getting their estimates just fine... But estimates can and will change, so if you are unwilling to pay what it costs and want a guaranteed set in stone price, you may not be backing KS much after all the KS go to this model to avoid having to eat it on shipping costs.
Vote with your wallet.
That's not how shipping costs actually work. It's not a linear increase. It goes by categories, and even those offer economies of scale. But you are correct, I won't be backing anything that can't give me a reasonably firm estimate (which is different from "set in stone", if English is your first language). Shipping from China, even via EMS also costs a fraction of shipping from the US, so anything shipping from there and willing to do their homework beforehand (because we know CMON would have had everything to be offered planned beforehand) will still be able to do well. Also KS that mass-ship to Australia, like SWM, or ones located in the UK. It's just US-based projects who do it garage-style that will have issues, I think.
I shall indeed vote with my wallet, though. A shame, because my wife looked a little interested in it, but with 10 or so KS-exclusive characters, it might not be worth doing in the end.
The rewards have grown to more than twice the size... So the shipping is probably more than twice the size... US shipping is now about 20$ Which is twice the size, So I would expect you now get to pay 80$ Which is twice the size. That is how it is. SDE is going to be in the exact same boat. And new KS are moving to this model of "pay what you owe" and "we can't promise shipping costs".
If you don't like it, don't pledge. Other people seem to be getting their estimates just fine... But estimates can and will change, so if you are unwilling to pay what it costs and want a guaranteed set in stone price, you may not be backing KS much after all the KS go to this model to avoid having to eat it on shipping costs.
Vote with your wallet.
That's not how shipping costs actually work. It's not a linear increase. It goes by categories, and even those offer economies of scale. But you are correct, I won't be backing anything that can't give me a reasonably firm estimate (which is different from "set in stone", if English is your first language). Shipping from China, even via EMS also costs a fraction of shipping from the US, so anything shipping from there and willing to do their homework beforehand (because we know CMON would have had everything to be offered planned beforehand) will still be able to do well. Also KS that mass-ship to Australia, like SWM, or ones located in the UK. It's just US-based projects who do it garage-style that will have issues, I think.
I shall indeed vote with my wallet, though. A shame, because my wife looked a little interested in it, but with 10 or so KS-exclusive characters, it might not be worth doing in the end.
This is based on the premise that there is enough backers from Australia to be worth their time to make it cost effective to the end user, and they care about missing that audience. Also, if they see "enuff" who are willing to pay the fees for expensive international shipping, why bother?
Lots of stores, manufacturers and other KS simply say "we know people in this area are expensive, we simply don't care." Some refuse to ship, others do it at insane costs. Companies totally can say "we get enough from US/Europe, and those costs are manageable, that is good enough."
Just because it is possible to bk ship and distribute cheaply, doesn't mean it fits in every business plan or is worth doing. It is like when a plumber high-balls an estimate, the truth is he feels he has enough of other peoples money and doesn't want to do your job. If you can't read between the lines, then continue to complain about it. This non-committal outside KS shipping is what everyone is going to go to and it is basically going to tell some backers in some parts of the world basically, "we don't need your money and don't particularly care if you back or not."
Project Update #52: A note on Paypal/late backing - how to do it and availability
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
A lot of you have written in to ask whether we'll allow backing via Paypal.
The answer is yes - there's no need to pledge $1 to the Kickstarter campaign, although we recommend you do so in order to receive updates on Arcadia Quest through Kickstarter.
We'll have a link after the campaign is over to allow you to secure a Guildmaster pledge via Paypal without optional items, which you will be able to add via the pledge manager as normal when the pledge manager is released.
HOWEVER, availability of Paypal pledges will be limited to ensure we don't over extend the number of promos we need to make as this will affect the delivery schedule. We will announce the Paypal pledge link shortly before the campaign ends.
Automatically Appended Next Post: interesting titbit in the comments from CMON
The will probably only be 200 or so slots to jump into post campaign for those backing late (not sure it this includes $1 backers from the campaign)
so if this is you make sure you do the paypal thing as soon CMON release the details as it make be a case of you snooze, you loose
As mentioned before, we read all comments, and some ideas we'll be incorporating in the product line down the road. However, 2 months is not a lot of time to get a physical product designed (production MUST begin by 1st June at the very latest), and we are already pushing the red line with Beyond the Grave coming forward (new tiles, new cards, new figures are all there). We appreciate your support, and would prefer to repay that support by delivering on schedule. Suggestions at this point are divided into two general camps: 1. Interesting ideas that we'll study more - e.g. 5-6 player campaigns, variously themed expansions, Hero packs etc. 2. Ideas that don't work in the context of this game (i.e. changing the game to something it's not) - "official" solo rules for example. Stuff in category 1 are things we'll be looking hard at, but can't possibly turn around by June, which is when everything must enter production to reach us in time for a September shipment. This includes things like new tiles (what's the point of a cosmetic reskin without playtested rules?). For those of you asking for more stuff, unfortunately we'll have to disappoint - this is as far as we can go for a $100 campaign which has a ton of components and exclusive heroes (which = molds we are never using again). If any backer feels this is "lame" and they deserve more stuff, now is their chance to back out with no hard feelings. To everyone left, thank you for your support and we look forward to bringing great things to the world of Arcadia Quest in future!
so they're clearly tightening up their campaigns (possibly even more so than with Wrath of Kings) to try and hit their ship dates
this is the final graphic of what you get (64 minis if I count right)
and possible add ons
only 4 hours to go so if you want to KS get pledging
This about to end but if you've only pledged $1 you won't get access to the pledge manager unless you pay for the $100 pledge through Paypal, places are limited to 100 apparently and must be paid before the end of March.
They really should have given that info out before there was only 7 minutes to go.
I ended up leaving the $90 in I've been in 2 minds for the last few days but in the end I'm happy enough with what's in the base pledge for €65 now then to see what shipping is going to cost!
Looks like they put the breaks on at the end with wider stretch goals and are not looking to blow the doors off with unlimited Paypal. Looks like they know limits and runaway pledging is a risk they didn't want. Half a mil is pretty good.
It is interesting as looks like the KS dynamic is always evolving and companies are adjusting. Companies don't want KS hangovers and blown timelines due to too much success.
So, when they listed the SG for Chooloo, they said he'd be a paid add-on if they didn't make. Do you think he'll still be an add-on, even though everyone gets one free? I'd like to have multiples. I asked them with a KS message, so I can post that when they get back to me.
**They wrote back. Rather quickly, I was impressed. No additional Chooloo's on the add-on page.
Your nightmares begin now! Bowie, Sting and most importantly Chooloo are unlocked! That's 4 additional figures for each Guildmaster and War Paint pledge!
The great Old Ones must have been young once surely? Chooloo comes in both Hero and Monster colors (two miniatures) with a Hero Card and 4 Monster Cards to be played at any level so it can play for either team! (errr...)
Confirmation $1 no reward pledges will not get access to the pledge manager
I can see this (minimum base game pledge) and actual shipping costs being the new norm.
Project Update #55: Late pledge/Paypal pledge clarification - you must use cmon.com/pledge
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
Due to the large number of backers and short lead time to September, if you intend to pledge late and have pledged $1 or no reward you MUST use the late pledge interface at http://cmon.com/pledge and place your pledge via Paypal now. You will not receive a pledge manager link otherwise.
If you pledged an amount that did not qualify for a pledge level but more than $1, we can either cancel your pledge within 60 days (you will no longer receive updates or be able to comment on Kickstarter) or we can credit the additional amount to your Paypal pledge after the pledge manager is released. You must still use http://cmon.com/pledge to receive a pledge manager link.
Thank you for your attention and sorry for any confusion.
Alpharius wrote: Unless said plan leads to distributors and stores deciding to not stock said product!
That's actually how things are now. Distributors guess which products will sell, then stock said products. They have no obligation to stock every single product manufacturers make. Doesn't make manufacturers happy.
I know some retailers and distributors (?) won't stock goods because they believe in the alpha-gamer, but, at least for retailers, this means they've just opened themselves up for other competing retailers to sell said product. I wonder if there are any distributors who primarily work with OLGS retailers, since they can carry a far wider variety of games than FLGS retail stores...
At GAMA - possible break bulk solutions (i.e. everyone's pledge in "X" region is consolidated for reshipping) being discussed for Canada and Australia, if not via distributors then by dedicated logistics companies (like what we do for EU). Once surveys are out next week, we'll have a better idea of where everyone is allowing us to negotiate better rates too if there are enough peeps in a particular location.
On another note, received painted samples of War Paint heroes and villains today. Will post up as soon as pictures are taken. These are SWEET.
On another note, received painted samples of War Paint heroes and villains today. Will post up as soon as pictures are taken. These are SWEET.
If Factory painted minis becomes cost effective and 'a thing' then that is going to be the new arms race in these KS. Megaman was huge on people wanting pre-paint minis, I could see this being big deal if this is the first of many pre-painted mini campaigns.
Yes, I could see that if it were anywhere near cost effective. But you were talking $800 for the entire KS to be delivered pre-painted. Which yes, is cheap when you look at having a service paint your figures. But that is still pretty steep.
Tokaido also had pre-painted mini's. I think they're a good solution as KS exclusives. At least the painters know that a prepainting service is expensive, and understand that they're not cost effective unless done as a "batch" that a KS can do and traditional retail cannot.
Happy Friday! Let's get down to some Monkey business!
While we are currently waiting for a production update, we have 2 more painted miniatures for you to see:
Elizabeth has done a fantastic job with these 2, wrapping up all the last minute add ons! Next week will we be at CMON Expo, and many of the Spaghetti Western team members will be in attendance as well as representative from the factory that is currently preparing Arcadia Quest, so you can expect a lot of updates and maybe a few answers Or, if you have time, swing by and hang out with us for a fun weekend!
Until next time. If you have any questions, please contact support@cmon.com
Agree. I actually like the angle of having male/female designs of similar classes. I think that is a wanted trend in chibi gamers as people want alternative genders for the same class or monster.
A lot of people have been waiting for firm shipping costs before they decided what they wanted (could afford to add) on the pledge manager which was set to close at the end of the month (approx.)
however CMON have posted the following in the comments
Creator CoolMiniOrNot about 15 hours ago
@Paul- We're still getting the estimates in for the different regions right now. If we don't have the costs soon, we'll extend the deadline a bit (that's also why we haven't given a set in stone deadline yet). We'll post up a deadline by the time we know the shipping costs, so you'll have plenty of time to pay shipping costs before the pledge manager closes.
-Katherine
this is good news both for those of us waiting, but also it means the project is running on time as they will be getting the costs by weighing/measuring (test) production boxes/minis etc, so when they give the shipping cost we know the basics are done and all the remains is tidy up work and the full scale production runs
Hmm looks like this has not had any updates in a while so lets add some to read
First from the KS comments MORE FREE STUFF!!!
Thiago Aranha (one of the game's developers)
I knew I could count on Zip! to catch that. The power of the Magic 8-Ball is strong with this one!
Yes, we're giving everybody 4 extra Hero figures and cards: The 4 Faceless! Consider it a special treat for your enthusiastic support from the very beginning.
Let me spoil one of the their abilities: SMILEY FACELESS: [+1 Reroll] When attacking with a Magic attack card, he may use every Reroll in his Guild.
(the faceless are bad guys in the beyond the grave expansion)
Update #71 Jul 28 2014
Shipping Update (7-28)
Hello Arcadians! It took a bit longer than expected, but we’re here with a Shipping Update (including finalized estimates) for everyone!
So two bits of information on this update, one for our Australian and Canada backers, and one for everyone else- First up, as stated, we’ve received the shipping costs from our global shipping partners:
Based on their information, this is what a standard pledge can expect:
EU: Most shipping costs range from 10 - 22 Euros
Canada: Most shipping costs range from 17 - 30 CAD$.
America: Most shipping costs range from $8 - $16.
Do note that these are still estimates until we can finalize them, but the final totals will not vary much from the above.
Part two of our news is we’ve established a number of new shipping hubs around the world, notably in Canada and Australia, meaning shipping to both of these areas should be much more streamlined (and cheaper for our backers).
So… Australia… You might notice you’re missing from that list up there. Well there is a good reason for that! In the time since we’ve begun this campaign we’ve managed to procure an Australian shipping hub, meaning we can get items out to you from within Australia itself (aka avoiding outside shipping fees, taxes, etc etc). The side effect is they’re still finalizing numbers on their end so it’s going to be just a bit longer before we have final numbers for you, but given this hub shipping should be much cheaper than what it would have been originally!
Once everything is final we’ll get it all integrated into our Pledge Manager and send out an email letting everyone know that has been taken care of. In the meantime stay tuned as we’ll have some great product videos and spoilers coming up for you guys in the coming time!
Until then!
still not finalised almost 2 weeks later which is annoying especially as Gencon will delay it further, but at least we roughly know the numbers now (although those ordering lots and lots of stuff are still nervous)
Update #72 Jul 30 2014
Beyond the Grave Expansion Gameplay with Eric Lang
Hail Arcadians!
We've got a cool update for you guys today! Eric Lang came down to CoolMiniOrNot HQ for CMON Expo 2014 and while he was here he ran the CMON crew through a quest from the Arcadia Quest Beyond the Grave expansion! Watch as the four guilds fight monsters, make allegiances, break allegiances, and beat each other to a pulp in an attempt to become the richest guild in Arcadia!
Please note that this is a prototype brought to us by Spaghetti Western games and not the final version.
Update #73 Aug 8 2014
Unboxing Video and War Paint Box Preview!
Greetings fellow Arcadians!
Arcadia Quest is drawing ever closer to becoming a reality and landing in your hands. Some of it has even reached us already! And we have an awesome unboxing video to share this exciting moment with all of you.
We also have a little preview of the exquisite "Collector's Edition" box and packaging that will bring the pre-painted figures to our War Paint backers.
Yes, the production of Arcadia Quest is finished, with all the boxes on their way to us. We will have samples for you to see, touch and play with if you come to the CoolMiniOrNot booth (#1827) at GenCon next week! If you're around, come find us under the full Arcadia moon!
Thank you for your support in helping make Arcadia Quest a reality!
The game boxes look neat, and should store well, and while I'd never have gone for warpaint, but for those that did it looks like they get a really nice set which will be easy to store. Really impressed with how CMON have done this
Dentry wrote: I want to combine this with Super Dungeon Explore. Make a super chibi game of some sort.
I have a feeling the scales are slightly different. When you compare them side by side using the base for scale Arcadia Quest minis seem to be about a head taller.
Dentry wrote: I want to combine this with Super Dungeon Explore. Make a super chibi game of some sort.
I have a feeling the scales are slightly different. When you compare them side by side using the base for scale Arcadia Quest minis seem to be about a head taller.
Different levels of smallness? It would be nice using the SDE guys as a makeshift guild to fight the AQ characters.
CKPM emails are going out to collect shipping payments
Mine came to $31.50 for the base pledge, 3 extra heroes and a Goldilocks pack. That's €24.50 which is in line with their estimate of €23 for a base pledge (Germany was €10 and UK €17). It looks like they are only taking payment in dollars I couldn't find a Euro option.
I got a message saying to pay them the shipping. I went to the pledge manager and it is saying I can't pay the shipping because it can't sort my address. This is the same address that they shipped my Rivet Wars pledge to, so I'm not sure whats going on.
I have to say... it is amazing they have an email address which auto-responds with 'we have gotten your issue' *AND* makes a ticket in a customer relations system. And CMoN didn't even raise a million dollars and they seem to be able to afford basic customer service infrastructure.
Mantic could learn a thing or three from that.
Anyone else US-side get 'state not found' or something like that?
Looks like it's fixed. They enabled the Unlock Pledge button. Need to unlock, update the address (and hit Save Changes...just hitting next gives the same error), then it should allow checkout.
Triple9 wrote: Looks like it's fixed. They enabled the Unlock Pledge button. Need to unlock, update the address (and hit Save Changes...just hitting next gives the same error), then it should allow checkout.
cincydooley wrote: Hopefully the quick turn around time on the fix left you adequately "impressed."
It did, though I know you weren't genuinly concerned.
On a more serious note, I took a look at your gallery and saw you had some pics of the minis. Where are those from? Do you already have your copy or was that from a Con? If so, are those the actual game pieces or were they masters? They look pretty good.
(although Asia Pacifc backers still can't pay as they've updated saying they've left out a 35-45% discount form the PM and have to add it in, if they've paid already the excess should be refunded within 2 weeks otherwise you have to email them)
ESSENTIAL INFO FOR INTERNATIONAL BACKERS
We'll need to have shipping completed within 7 days to ensure that your items will ship from the most efficient shipping hub for you - otherwise your pledge will ship from the USA (default hub) instead and will be more expensive to international destinations.
so if you're late paying you'll really loose out, not only higher shipping fees but EU backers would have to pay VAT & handling charges, so don't delay
(actually I'm not sure how legitimate this would be since it was implied/stated people would have longer to do so, and some may well be on holiday/out of touch, but paying fast rather than trying to argue about it later seems the easiest thing for most of us to do)
Those are actual production pieces from CMoN expo earlier in the year. I played about 3 games of Arcadia at DragonCon this past weekend and found it to be a blast. The components are absolutely top notch.
cincydooley wrote: Those are actual production pieces from CMoN expo earlier in the year. I played about 3 games of Arcadia at DragonCon this past weekend and found it to be a blast. The components are absolutely top notch.
All of the gameplay and reviews I have seen have been positive. Also the people who have touched the models said the sculpts are good. SDE has inconsistent scale but since their new stuff seems to be on the 'large' side, I suspect the new SDE stuff and the AQ stuff will be closer than people realize in regards to scale. Also... It is possible to play more than one different game in a similar genre. I have been pretty sad to see the natural inclination of gamers to immediately take on 'tribal wars' and immediately begin the 'anyone not playing my chosen system must be exterminated attitude out of the sodapop camp. I thought I left that behind as a refugee from the 40k/warmahordes wars.
I have to say, I am pleasantly surprised that this is shipping in September. I almost forgot and just assumed it would be like 6 months delayed like all KS.
(and bodes equally well for Wrath of Kings when they get the printing issues sorted)
the one thing I'm mildly concerned about is the stuff the factory have been sending out as samples may be 'hand selected' rather than off a full speed production run
(some of the stuff Mantic has been shown lby their factory looked good only to end up with nasty big mould lines when it arrived in backers hands which was clearly as case of the factory only showing them their best stuff)
nkelsch wrote: I have to say... it is amazing they have an email address which auto-responds with 'we have gotten your issue' *AND* makes a ticket in a customer relations system. And CMoN didn't even raise a million dollars and they seem to be able to afford basic customer service infrastructure.
Mantic could learn a thing or three from that.
Anyone else US-side get 'state not found' or something like that?
Mantic have a webform that eats your message without telling you if your message happens to include a URL. Because anti-spam.
And still there doesn't seem to be a fix for APAC backers and shipping as their 7-day window draws ever-closer to closing.
Cincy - any chance of you suggesting that aside from a 7-day window out of the blue with no warning being pretty unreasonable at best, they're expecting more than a little much from APAC backers since they still don't have their ducks in a row with 3 days left?
some APAC backers being asked for significantly more shipping that they expected
I think the boxes are bigger than people thought. I assumed it was one big box, one small box and a baggie of loose crap which could fit in a more common-sized box. Being 3 really large boxes plus some change, that is almost a 14x14x14 box which is pretty huge.
Oh I can understand that a pledge with more than the basic box might well have to move 'up' a postal band and in that case I would expect people to have to pay
but It sounds like it's a significant amount more even if they only get the basic box, $48+ instead of $20 for Singapore for example
which seems to be because the initial estimates were based on shipping from China (which they knew they could do) rather than Australia (which they were trying to set up)
They'd have done better to have at least stuck to the 'no more than' estimate at least for basic pledges even if it cost them some cash
(and either make the estimates larger next time now they have a firmer idea of costs from their new hub or just don't provide one which will cost them some backers, but let them off the hook on costs)
That's it, I'm completely done with CMON, to give a deadline like this on a pledge manager that doesn't work then ignore all messages, that's just BS. They really do deserve their reputation.
Joyboozer wrote: That's it, I'm completely done with CMON, to give a deadline like this on a pledge manager that doesn't work then ignore all messages, that's just BS. They really do deserve their reputation.
Care to elaborate?
*Edited to avoid unintentionally sounding like a dick.
Cincy - any chance of you suggesting that aside from a 7-day window out of the blue with no warning being pretty unreasonable at best, they're expecting more than a little much from APAC backers since they still don't have their ducks in a row with 3 days left?
I did pass this on, BTW. With this new little one, it's been a bit of a hectic week for me.
speculation in the KS comments (based on a conversation one backer had with CMON) that the AQ stuff MAY have been on the same boat as the Rivit Wars wave 2 stuff
no idea if this it true (and CMON would be completing work on Rivit Wars before starting on AQ)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: speculation in the KS comments (based on a conversation one backer had with CMON) that the AQ stuff MAY have been on the same boat as the Rivit Wars wave 2 stuff
no idea if this it true (and CMON would be completing work on Rivit Wars before starting on AQ)
I have no idea.
Just letting people know what they've got coming (as that seems to qualify as news) and I know I'm not the only fan of this style of artwork and game style.
Anything he has a hand in has always ended up with babby poo all over it. THE ROBOTECH project is par for that course.
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