I really hope us hear at dakka dakka get priority beta slots!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've got another small but important idea. If your going all the way with the chapters being like they are in lore then a whole company would be termies, that's 1/10 members being termies, so to keep termies rare and stop them getting nerfed how about (like a max suit in planetside) you have a cool down timer on it like 24 hours? That sound cool?
I somehow doubt that there would be any "real" force organization chart in EC outside of your own player-formed guilds. You'll have one "War Council" that gets elected, and that's about it.
unmercifulconker wrote: Perhaps because each campaign is 3 (months?) levels and specs reset so with each new planet makes everyone start again so there wont be all terminators against ork boys.
Although people could pay a fee if they wish to keep just one character as they are such as those few who are high ranking positions. Thus every other charcter/race you choose will reset after each campaign.
LOL, resetting people back to level one will never happen, the nerd rage would be epic though. Once a faction becomes too far ahead of another, the tyrannids will start eating them to hold them in check, according to the developer's interview.
Well, it could be doable if they would only sell unlocks and customisation via their cash shop, but have you grind for actual wargear, experience and standing.
Then again, it's true - reset does not necessarily have to affect the characters in any way. The maps on Planetside 2 keep switching colours all the time, and it does not matter at all that after so many months there are many people who have unlocked just about everything. The influx of "green" players and the retiring rate of "vets" keeps gear balance somewhere in the middle, I suppose. All a reset on a game would really have to achieve would be to render all territories neutral and remove faction bonuses gained for conquest.
Lynata wrote: Well, it could be doable if they would only sell unlocks and customisation via their cash shop, but have you grind for actual wargear, experience and standing.
Any, and I mean ANY kind of "pay to win" system in an MMO or any other game for that matter is a death knell for its fanbase, it's as simple as that.
Forgive my almost "zealous" hatred of Free to Play/Pay to Win games, but over many years playing more then a few of them and seeing first hand the animosity and unrest they cause to fans, dividing friends and clans alike by who can and can't go where/use what spell/choose which class, I know the erosion it causes in a fanbase, and it hardened my heart over the years on the matter.
Either everyone pays, or no one pays, the only free to play game I've seen not to destroy its fanbase is TF2, which all you can do is buy hats, which can be made/looted in-game anyway.
Like I said in my earlier post, Free to Play/Pay to Win games will lead us into another Gaming Dark Age...
Either everyone pays, or no one pays, the only free to play game I've seen not to destroy its fanbase is TF2, which all you can do is buy hats, which can be made/looted in-game anyway.
Dust 514's playerbase is still growing. This is in spite of the fact that they're still playing on a "previous-gen" console.
Here is newsletter 1# for any body that is yet to see it;
"GREETINGS, FELLOW CRUSADERS!
Welcome to the first edition of the Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade newsletter. I’m David Ghozland, Creative Director on the project.
First of all, I wanted to say that myself and the team here at Behaviour Interactive can’t thank you enough for your support. We knew there would be a big response to a new 40k MMO, but the passion and enthusiasm we’ve seen from the community has gone beyond our expectations.
We consider this to be YOUR game – the online 40k world that the fans have always wanted. To that end, we’ll be setting up a space where you can communicate with the devs and share your thoughts. Expect some news on this front very soon!
In the months to come, this newsletter will be a platform for expressing our specific intentions on this project and communicating the thought processes behind its development. For the inaugural edition, however, I’d like to say a bit more about the game itself.
A World At War
One of the first misconceptions we saw about the game based on the announcement was that because of the game’s genre, people thought that we were making a "traditional" MMORPG. If you looked out our "required playing" list for new team members*, you'd see that we're planning on making something quite different indeed. We believe that the MMORPG genre is one with vast possibilities – just look at EvE Online or Firefall to see how far it can stretch.
In Eternal Crusade, we’re presenting a war on a planetary scale, but what you want to do in the game world is really up to you - there's no traditional quest or leveling structure in the experience. When you drop down to the planet with your friends, you’ll have a great overview of the ongoing conflict due to both traditional UI elements and community channels. If you want to head to the front lines and fight where you’re needed most, you can drive over there and do so. Along the way you might meet players from the enemy faction skulking about, or maybe you’ll spot a tantalizing entrance to the world beneath the surface or a Tyranid infestation bursting out near one of your strongholds.
Or perhaps one of your squad-mates will get an idea to hit the enemy behind their lines at a particularly valuable strategic position. It’ll take some skill to get there unnoticed and you might be guaranteed to have the enemy’s attention once you’ve done the damage, but the game's not going to stop you!
Part of what makes this possible is that MMO technology has come far enough to allow for true skill & precision-based gameplay and we’ve made a deliberate choice to make progression as horizontal as possible. A small amount of power gain is inevitable, but in a PvP-focused game it’s crucial that the vast majority of progression is about filling out your tactical possibilities and increasing specialization. Tabletop 40k has been a big inspiration in this regard, as you’ll see when we talk more about creating your character builds.
The other part is that we’re not creating a "content-heavy" world, but rather one driven by gameplay systems. There are unique spots to find, environmental lore bits and an ongoing narrative, but community efforts and Tyranid invasions drive the battle for the surface while the shapes and challenges of the underworld are generated procedurally. Our aim is to make an online world that never stops being able to surprise its players.
If this sounds good to you, stick around! We’ll keep talking about the details of the game design and other production updates right here, so if you know anyone else who might be interested in these topics, you can encourage them to register on the site.
Until next time, may the Emperor protect!"
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm pretty annoyed to see that none of my questions had been answered despite what miguel had said :(
Welcome to the first edition of the Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade newsletter. I’m David Ghozland, Creative Director on the project.
First of all, I wanted to say that myself and the team here at Behaviour Interactive can’t thank you enough for your support. We knew there would be a big response to a new 40k MMO, but the passion and enthusiasm we’ve seen from the community has gone beyond our expectations.
We consider this to be YOUR game – the online 40k world that the fans have always wanted. To that end, we’ll be setting up a space where you can communicate with the devs and share your thoughts. Expect some news on this front very soon!
In the months to come, this newsletter will be a platform for expressing our specific intentions on this project and communicating the thought processes behind its development. For the inaugural edition, however, I’d like to say a bit more about the game itself.
A World At War
One of the first misconceptions we saw about the game based on the announcement was that because of the game’s genre, people thought that we were making a "traditional" MMORPG. If you looked out our "required playing" list for new team members*, you'd see that we're planning on making something quite different indeed. We believe that the MMORPG genre is one with vast possibilities – just look at EvE Online or Firefall to see how far it can stretch.
In Eternal Crusade, we’re presenting a war on a planetary scale, but what you want to do in the game world is really up to you - there's no traditional quest or leveling structure in the experience. When you drop down to the planet with your friends, you’ll have a great overview of the ongoing conflict due to both traditional UI elements and community channels. If you want to head to the front lines and fight where you’re needed most, you can drive over there and do so. Along the way you might meet players from the enemy faction skulking about, or maybe you’ll spot a tantalizing entrance to the world beneath the surface or a Tyranid infestation bursting out near one of your strongholds.
Or perhaps one of your squad-mates will get an idea to hit the enemy behind their lines at a particularly valuable strategic position. It’ll take some skill to get there unnoticed and you might be guaranteed to have the enemy’s attention once you’ve done the damage, but the game's not going to stop you!
Part of what makes this possible is that MMO technology has come far enough to allow for true skill & precision-based gameplay and we’ve made a deliberate choice to make progression as horizontal as possible. A small amount of power gain is inevitable, but in a PvP-focused game it’s crucial that the vast majority of progression is about filling out your tactical possibilities and increasing specialization. Tabletop 40k has been a big inspiration in this regard, as you’ll see when we talk more about creating your character builds.
The other part is that we’re not creating a "content-heavy" world, but rather one driven by gameplay systems. There are unique spots to find, environmental lore bits and an ongoing narrative, but community efforts and Tyranid invasions drive the battle for the surface while the shapes and challenges of the underworld are generated procedurally. Our aim is to make an online world that never stops being able to surprise its players.
If this sounds good to you, stick around! We’ll keep talking about the details of the game design and other production updates right here, so if you know anyone else who might be interested in these topics, you can encourage them to register on the site.
Until next time, may the Emperor protect!"
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm pretty annoyed to see that none of my questions had been answered despite what miguel had said :(
I manged to get a personal Q&A session done with Miguel and the team, myself and members of my Chapter selected some questions that we thought would be important to us, once I get the email back from Miguel I will post it on our site and share it here
How about we at dakka dakka compile a Q&A ourselves for miguel, everybody who wants to post a question or 2 and I'll copy and paste them here with your usernameand then message them to him. Sound good?
My question is;
Are the only chaos legion the iron warriors, and how will this affect how guilds/chapters/warbands?
Enigwulf;
My [enigwulf's] question would be, how is each side going to subdivide down? Are we only going to see one Chaos Legion/warband, one Ork Waagh! group, one Eldar Craftworld, and one Space Marine Chapter, or are we going to see whatever each player wants? If the latter, how is that going to be explained fluff-wise?
At this point all I want to know is will there be a console beta? All the Q&As in the world mean pretty little until we see the actual product, especially when they're answering questions about something that won't launch for over a year. I know there will be one for the PC, but I'm hoping I'll have something to test drive also.
My question would be, how is each side going to subdivide down? Are we only going to see one Chaos Legion/warband, one Ork Waagh! group, one Eldar Craftworld, and one Space Marine Chapter, or are we going to see whatever each player wants? If the latter, how is that going to be explained fluff-wise?
Since I go to the Games Developers Conference and other noteworthy gatherings (as needed to keep update going trends for my IP's) I can only say the following and if it is harsh it comes from the hard cold reality of being informed on how the video gaming/entertainment industry is today.
1. 40K MMO. Yes you will get your hardcore Fanboi's, niche players playing the game but is that going to be enough for the game to be viable in the Long run?. You will need to get a certain percentage of your average gamer interested in playing it for long term viability.
40K is NOT the awesome worldwide biggest customer base that GW wants you to believe, so it will be necessary to increase your customer base. Otherwise it is going to be years of developing a product and within 6 months its in the bargain bins.
2. Complexity and the use of tutorials . You must have a easy to read tutorial when trying to communicate on how to play and game in your MMO. I have a Technical Writer on my staff, (known her for 24 years) the type of person who has worked in Silicon Valley that had to listen to the Jargon coming from scientists/ engineers and explain it correctly to the consumer about the product in question.
You need one of those.
3. DLC Yea this is at times a necessary evil so make sure that the DLC is priced wisely otherwise its bargain basement time for your product.
4. Free to play and Micro transactions. Again make sure if the system that you use is going to have this that the pricing is fair as well as the mechanics for those that do not use it because of cost.
5. Advertisement. If you follow the GW concept of advertising your product, you might as well give up now and save your money. Use your head and common sense on how to use your advertising dollars wisely. DO YOUR RESEARCH on all venues of your potential customer base and apply your resources wisely.
This is what I can think of at the moment. Probably more will come later perhaps.
JakeCWolf wrote:Any, and I mean ANY kind of "pay to win" system in an MMO or any other game for that matter is a death knell for its fanbase, it's as simple as that. [...] Like I said in my earlier post, Free to Play/Pay to Win games will lead us into another Gaming Dark Age...
Free to Play isn't the same as Play to Win, though. See MechWarrior Online for an example of how it can work nicely, or Planetside 2. You don't have to limit the cash shop to customisation either - "progression boosts" are a common option as well, letting you skip a few hours of grind to get that piece of gear you always wanted somewhat sooner. On a battlefield where players of all ranges of experience/veterancy and thus equipment levels will clash, such advantages matter not, and are essentially a win-win for everyone. The paying player, who may well be a working man/woman, saves some time and can keep up with those who are playing more often without compromising balance, and the company receives a few bucks to keep the game running, which in turn benefits everyone.
The Dark Apostle wrote:The other part is that we’re not creating a "content-heavy" world, but rather one driven by gameplay systems.
Oh cool, as warband I was thinking the bloodborn of m'kar a not well known but very interesting and quite perfect for this particular occasion.
The bloodborn are a warband dedicated to m'kar the thrice born, a daemon prince who is one of the greatest enemies of the imperium and specifically the Ultramarines.
One of the reasons the bloodborn are hood is the method of aesthetic uniform. They recruit members from different chaos warbands and only change the one of the shoulder pads to the blue and red. There main uniform for the actual members (mainly guys from the host of m'kar during the Horus heresy)
Is a copy of the Ultramarines but they coat there armour in the blood of there enemies. Another reason is there allegiance with the iron warriors, a warsmith Honsou resurrected M'kar and his daemons (a large number of his soldiers are daemons).
This sound good, BTW if you doubt me with this I've lead chapters and guilds before
The Dark Apostle wrote: Oh cool, as warband I was thinking the bloodborn of m'kar a not well known but very interesting and quite perfect for this particular occasion.
The bloodborn are a warband dedicated to m'kar the thrice born, a daemon prince who is one of the greatest enemies of the imperium and specifically the Ultramarines.
One of the reasons the bloodborn are hood is the method of aesthetic uniform. They recruit members from different chaos warbands and only change the one of the shoulder pads to the blue and red. There main uniform for the actual members (mainly guys from the host of m'kar during the Horus heresy)
Is a copy of the Ultramarines but they coat there armour in the blood of there enemies. Another reason is there allegiance with the iron warriors, a warsmith Honsou resurrected M'kar and his daemons (a large number of his soldiers are daemons).
This sound good, BTW if you doubt me with this I've lead chapters and guilds before
Or you can go with the easiest option and go with Red Corsairs. Paint any colour you want, even loyalist. Profit.
I started a thread to try and pull people together for the warband and as far as a name I think that something like the red corsairs is a good idea because of the diversity of chapters/legions.
Hah, was just going to comment on that as I've just seen it linked on the page MadMuzza posted.
Still watching it as I type, but an interesting thing I noted is that there will apparently be multiple "Chapter Leaders" in the player hierarchy, each of whom represent about a hundred players. Wouldn't that designation hint at there being multiple Chapters, or am I interpreting it too narrowly?
Aye haha literally just paused it to talk about this. I definately think multiple chapters are in as hes talking about a faction, but then says a chapter within that so it comes off as multiple chapters.
Thanks a lot for the interview btw, much needed does of eternal crusade.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another thing I think is a must have, is war cry emotes kind of like in chivalry in which you can shout out taunts, laughs etc.
Would be awesome to charge into ork lines screaming for the emperor!
Hm. He said he had been working on the IP for the past few years before he picked Behavior as the studio to work with. Anyone know of where he'd worked on the 40k IP before?
Also, I think they'd be hard-pressed to put the same number of players on the field as Eve Online does, not in terms of hardware capacity, but player numbers...
Enigwolf wrote: Hm. He said he had been working on the IP for the past few years before he picked Behavior as the studio to work with. Anyone know of where he'd worked on the 40k IP before?
I think he is talking generaly, as in working on a game concept, and after Dark Millenium flopped, he came with his idea!
P.S.
few posts ago there was talk about terminator armors, and similar "OP" armors.
@warp wathchers i had this idea, that is also compatible with lore.
Terminators are unique and Rare armors, so it would be terrible to give it to everyone, or atleast allow every player to walk around in it.
So i had idea to use solution similar to banners in "Warhhammer: Age of Reckoning", where you had if i remember correctly 5 banner ulocked at Guild lvl40, and then you could have each banner with different bonuses, and officers could then decide who can be "banner bearer".
So similar system could be used in "Eternal Crusade" lets say limit number of Terminator armors (or their equivalents in other races) to lets say 2 squads per guild (with guild at max lvl, otherwise people would make small guilds just for abbility to wear armors), and squad size would be 6 people, so that would be 12 terminators per guild, (which is compatible with lore where usualy only few squads of first company have terminator armor).
And if you use system similar to banners in "WAR: Age of reckoning" you could have in your armory few predesigned loadouts for terminator armors, and then you just assign it to people that have lvl or what ever is gonna be prerequisition to wear it (perhaps need to finish few campaings, so you are veteran, again compatible with lore).
They have "hundreds of thousands of figurines at the office"... Uhhh. Does GW even have this many at Warhammer World?
He has said so many factually incorrect or implausible things in the interview that I'm slightly worried now. Also, how does merging ships into a strike cruiser work lore-wise? It's not like this is Transformers...
For anybody excited for this game join the dakka dakka chais warband, even of it won't be your main character have a chais marine to join fellow dakkanaughts in the rejoice of the dark gods!
From the interview at 20:12. "Dark Angels" for Space Marines, "Iron Warriors" for Chaos (I originally thought he said Aryan Warriors, LOL!), "Ork Boyz" for Orks, and "Beautiful Eldars" for Eldar.
From what it seems, they've already picked the groups we're playing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The whole PVP style literally seems like it's being ripped from Planetside 2 and Eve Online, what with the single-shard large warfare and inter-faction, player-driven conflicts...
zmalamuth wrote:Terminators are unique and Rare armors, so it would be terrible to give it to everyone, or atleast allow every player to walk around in it. So i had idea to use solution similar to banners in "Warhhammer: Age of Reckoning", where you had if i remember correctly 5 banner ulocked at Guild lvl40, and then you could have each banner with different bonuses, and officers could then decide who can be "banner bearer". [...]
Although that would be one way of doing it, I'm not sure if limiting Terminator armour to guilds would be cool. Especially since obviously the guild leaders will very likely give the good stuff to themselves.
Let's face it - yeah, Termies are rare, but so are Space Marines and a whole lot of other races in general, as well as pieces of equipment. This is an MMO, and concessions to the realism of what this means will have to be made.
That being said, I don't even really see the problem. With these battles being fought out in the open rather than the confined space of a Hulk, Termie armour will come with a huge set of disadvantages attached, most notably being slow and easy to hit. In a game that will supposedly feature tanks and other vehicles with rather big guns. I could well imagine that Terminator armour won't be so attractive to every sort of player that every single Marine player would want to have one. The downsides involved in operating as a Termie will balance it against the enemy, which may render it useful only to a handful of players who know how to use it efficiently, thus making it rare not by being less available but by being very, very situational.
[edit] The execution bit in the vid sounds amazing.
I guess they just havent decided the right poster boys for those races yet.
My vote goes for death skullz and iyanden. Seems like a nice contrast to the dark green and steel.
Edit: I would see Termie armour as the MAX suits, temporary boosts of armour and firepower, in now way is it the biggest and most op threat. They are slow.
Although I liked the fact that it's clear they're going to make a world in a constant state of war, I have some concerns.
1. There wasn't any talk of customization. That severely worries me considering the game is clearly a toolkit for fans like us to play with.
2. Why would a Space Marine kick someone's head like a soccer ball? Wouldn't that fit better as an Ork execution along with T-Bagging? Wouldn't it be more accurate for a SM to literally punch through their face, curb stomp, or saw them in half?
3. Is there destructible scenery?
4. Can we expect additions of chapters / allies to existing races with expansions i.e. SoB, IG, Traitor Guard, ect.? Are there any plans for expansions?
To those who doubt the population of the game, I'm really not worried considering that it's a single planet that people are fighting over, not EvE's galaxy.
All in all however, I am very excited for this game and can't wait until we can start seeing some game play or a trailer. Probably going roll Chaos though.... :(
It would be nice to hea about customisation and the ranking system next.
I dunno, I quite like the idea of a space marine booting an ork in the face, certainly something the Angry Marines would do.
Agreed, I have little worry for the population because it is one big game, I am eager to hear of this announcement he was was talking about with regards to the engine.
Edit: The only sort of expansions they have said is they want to introduce more races in the future.
I dunno, I quite like the idea of a space marine booting an ork in the face, certainly something the Angry Marines would do.
Edit: The only sort of expansions they have said is they want to introduce more races in the future.
*Other stuff Demetri agrees with*
See "Curb Stomp"
Well then I hope it happens!
Also, any mention of vehicles or did I miss that as well? I'd also hope to drive vehicles into these "Award Winning Dungeons"... I'm definitely keen on looking more into secret world now lol.
Oh, did anyone catch them saying that they're in development with two other companies over this game? Any guesses on who they'd be?
I dunno, I quite like the idea of a space marine booting an ork in the face, certainly something the Angry Marines would do.
Edit: The only sort of expansions they have said is they want to introduce more races in the future.
*Other stuff Demetri agrees with*
See "Curb Stomp"
Well then I hope it happens!
Also, any mention of vehicles or did I miss that as well? I'd also hope to drive vehicles into these "Award Winning Dungeons"... I'm definitely keen on looking more into secret world now lol.
Oh, did anyone catch them saying that they're in development with two other companies over this game? Any guesses on who they'd be?
The "two other companies" he was referring to are game/gfx engine licensors.
Well, looking into the Secret World and seeing that their PvE experiences are well crafted, I'd even take a break from my normal PvP and go hunting for resources. That's especially true if the instances each had a theme that continued to build as you went along. For example, going into a mine filled with toxic fumes and radiation would be epic because each encounter could be a slightly harder puzzle than the last - bosses and creatures inside the mine would all follow the theme of being toxic to the touch and you'd best find ways of not letting them touch you.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Can someone please give the highlights from that interview? Really don't feel like watching a 30 minute video.
The only really useful bits were Dark Angels, Iron Warriors; players divided from War Council->Chapter Leaders->Squad Leaders. Nothing else really that we haven't heard of before. The rest is cheese, fluff, and more fluff without specifics. Also, "WAR".
MandalorynOranj wrote: Can someone please give the highlights from that interview? Really don't feel like watching a 30 minute video.
The only really useful bits were Dark Angels, Iron Warriors; players divided from War Council->Chapter Leaders->Squad Leaders. Nothing else really that we haven't heard of before. The rest is cheese, fluff, and more fluff without specifics. Also, "WAR".
If we can't pick our chapter (either for loyalist or chaos) I'm rolling eldar
And I really don't see how hard it can be to let guilds design their own armor colors and standards. Even fluff wise, warbands fight with other warbands all the time, even loyalist chapters do that. How many people here are even fans of the Iron Warriors or dark angels? I'm not.
Oh gak that guy's got spikes on his armor so I'm assuming he's a chaos fighter!
Or
Oh gak that guy DOESN'T have spikes on and a red name plate above his head so I'm guessing I should shoot him
To take away people's customization (which by the way if you guys don't know already is one of the MAIN parts of warhammer) is stupidity.
Ifepy wrote: If we can't pick our chapter (either for loyalist or chaos) I'm rolling eldar
And I really don't see how hard it can be to let guilds design their own armor colors and standards. Even fluff wise, warbands fight with other warbands all the time, even loyalist chapters do that. How many people here are even fans of the Iron Warriors or dark angels? I'm not.
Oh gak that guy's got spikes on his armor so I'm assuming he's a chaos fighter!
Or
Oh gak that guy DOESN'T have spikes on and a red name plate above his head so I'm guessing I should shoot him
To take away people's customization (which by the way if you guys don't know already is one of the MAIN parts of warhammer) is stupidity.
Iron within? no sir, give me iron without.
I got a bad feeling about this game
Yeah sure!
Lets have player made chapters!
With menacing 40k names like:
- My little pony
-Hello Kitty
-Space teddybears
-My Pink Unicorn
-Powerpuff girls
-Bieliebers
.... etc
and let's paint all them in the stylish pink colors! and offcourse 90% of them would be chaos guild
Player made chapters are rolled out- 2 days later, the entire chapter of the Angry Marines is banned for blatant abuse of other players, each other, gross violations of profanity, and abuse of several dozen people who have never played the game.
Gitzbitah wrote: Player made chapters are rolled out- 2 days later, the entire chapter of the Angry Marines is banned for blatant abuse of other players, each other, gross violations of profanity, and abuse of several dozen people who have never played the game.
Oh god, imagine if 1d4chan would make a chapter...It would be awesome
cram in your cram hole zmalamuth your gym and your gal are mine
even going back to what you said about "My little pony" "lolomg my butt herts from zmalamuth" named guilds, you can mitigate this by placing in the original legions as options instead of everyone having to be iron warriors, or dark angels.
So your guild can choose from a list of the 9 traitor legions or 9 loyalist legions
Therefore you still have your immersion but having some choice as well
I don't really care about the marines, spiky or otherwise-- not that there's really much of a difference between spiky and not-spiky anyway, never mind the lack of difference between the various chapters/legions...
Regardless of that, it's an MMO so it's going to be immersion-breaking anyway, unless they somehow enforce roleplaying, which would be rather unpopular.
Gitzbitah wrote: Player made chapters are rolled out- 2 days later, the entire chapter of the Angry Marines is banned for blatant abuse of other players, each other, gross violations of profanity, and abuse of several dozen people who have never played the game.
Oh god, imagine if 1d4chan would make a chapter...It would be awesome
Let's not even talk about the possibility of the Something Awful goons joining. lol.
Melissia wrote: I don't really care about the marines, spiky or otherwise-- not that there's really much of a difference between spiky and not-spiky anyway, never mind the lack of difference between the various chapters/legions...
Regardless of that, it's an MMO so it's going to be immersion-breaking anyway, unless they somehow enforce roleplaying, which would be rather unpopular.
I'm sure there'll be roleplay guilds and such, though. So that stuff'll be there if you want it.
Spoiler:
I know that I intend to roleplay a little bit when/if the Sisters expansion comes out. it's a guilty pleasure.
I think they should have a large variety of chapters already availble with each being a guild. So when a guild is made they then register themselves as a chapter but there can only be one, if your favourite chapter isn't there you can apply and providing there is enough info they'll be added to the list
d3m01iti0n wrote: I was behind this game until the Dark Angels got mentioned. Guess the game has been misnamed. Off to a bad start.
How self entitled are you to think that the game is going to be made with your favorite chapter in mind? Especially considering how many space marine chapters are out there what are the odds that your favourite one is going to be picked? They also mentioned there was going to be pyskers
in one of the interviews so you should have been somewhat expecting no Black Templars.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also who gives a feth what chapter of space marines you play the difference between them aren't much in terms of stats it mostly just fluff and visual style changes.
I said its misnamed and Im absolutely right. Im sure WH40K: All Is Dust featuring the Red Corsairs will be a great game. Whatever it is youre trying to do Im not interested.
Cheesecat wrote:Also who gives a feth what chapter of space marines you play the difference between them aren't much in terms of stats it mostly just fluff and visual style changes.
In fairness, it's a valid concern that simply hinges upon one's emotional attachment to their favourite army, or by extension sub-faction. Even for me it'd be a huge difference whether I'd get to play a Chapter such as, say, the Celestial Lions, or the Space Wolves, simply because I'm aware of the various Chapters' backgrounds, and thus have different opinions on all of them.
That being said, Dark Angels aren't exactly a surprise - they do seem to be the Chapter that is being "featured" this edition. See the TT Rulebook cover, see the Dark Vengeance starter set.
And with three alternative options to play, I'd simply look to one of the other races rather than letting go of the game entirely. Are Orks really that bad a choice?
d3m01iti0n wrote: I said its misnamed and Im absolutely right. Im sure WH40K: All Is Dust featuring the Red Corsairs will be a great game. Whatever it is youre trying to do Im not interested.
OK, yeah you're right the title is misleading I'm just frustrated about people complaining about not having their favourite chapter, army, whatever in the games get over it. I mean it's unrealistic to expect every faction and sub-faction (although I can understand and agree with some posters
concerns about lack of female options that just seems like a bad decision especially for players who like to play as female characters) to be crammed into the game just be grateful that they're at least making a game.
The chapter I play as in 40K are the Carcharodons. This game won't become dead to me just because "my" chapter isn't in it. Just as I played Space Marine for hours upon hours despite the fact I despise Ultramarines with all my being.
Unless you are roleplaying it really does not matter which chapter they picked, and most people will not be roleplaying. The DA are as good a choice as any and better than some.
I find the whole teabagging execution example to be rather peurile even though I suppose it will appeal to immature players.
One thing that I am very curious about is: What happens if your race is defeated 1 month into a 3 month long campaign? I cant imagine that you are not allowed to play, but if your race has been defeated then what is the point? What will you be able to do while the campaign finishes up.
One major culture screw up he made was mentioning the KGB. Similar to the earlier interview, when he described a hypothetical group of ex-Navy seals using their expertise and winning a campaign fast he used the same example with the KGB. Very, very bad move. The KGB are hated only slightly less than NKVD and they were mostly a bunch of terrorists and thugs, not military geniuses. That was a truly cringeworthy moment in the interview.
Despite people complaining that details were not provided in the interview, I think he has so far given us a very good idea about what his vision of the game is. Now whether this vision translates into a game that is fun to play remains to be seen but you cant criticize the team for not having a passion for 40k.
Having played extensively in a MMORPG that required a linkshell group to get anywhere at end game I am just very skeptical about the degree of control that players will have over other players in this game. Maybe the fact that at the top end of the hierarchy the fact that the leader is over hundreds rather than a couple of dozen players, it might actually work out better than I would expect.
The developer in the interviews has implied that a knowledge of real world tactics will give players a great advantage, eg a group of ex-Navy Seals being able to dominate in a short time. I find this to be rather amusing because players will try all kinds of crazy things that no one would try in real life and the result is they will find exploits and loopholes that people wedded to real life military doctrines would never find.
JWhex wrote:Unless you are roleplaying it really does not matter which chapter they picked, and most people will not be roleplaying.
Meh, people don't roleplay in the Tabletop as well, yet still the majority feels strongly about the various armies. As they say, "you eat with your eyes first".
JWhex wrote:One thing that I am very curious about is: What happens if your race is defeated 1 month into a 3 month long campaign? I cant imagine that you are not allowed to play, but if your race has been defeated then what is the point? What will you be able to do while the campaign finishes up.
I'd guess that such a situation would be difficult to achieve, as the other force will also have two more enemies to deal with in addition to greater Tyranid attacks in their rear area. Perhaps they will gain various helpful resources by all the territory they control, but they won't gain additional players. Stretch out your forces too far, and you will invariably introduce weak points that will be exploited by the enemy.
Note: I'm assuming a race cannot actually get defeated "for reals", but rather just pushed back to wherever they spawn. Everybody keeps their ship in orbit, and can choose to launch a new invasion wave at any time. Ideally, the "underdog" faction should coordinate their landing for maximum efficiency.
JWhex wrote:One major culture screw up he made was mentioning the KGB. Similar to the earlier interview, when he described a hypothetical group of ex-Navy seals using their expertise and winning a campaign fast he used the same example with the KGB. Very, very bad move. The KGB are hated only slightly less than NKVD and they were mostly a bunch of terrorists and thugs, not military geniuses. That was a truly cringeworthy moment in the interview.
From a Western perspective? Their President is ex-KGB. I wouldn't be surprised if at least a large number of Russians would have different opinions about their nation's past.
JWhex wrote:The developer in the interviews has implied that a knowledge of real world tactics will give players a great advantage, eg a group of ex-Navy Seals being able to dominate in a short time. I find this to be rather amusing because players will try all kinds of crazy things that no one would try in real life and the result is they will find exploits and loopholes that people wedded to real life military doctrines would never find.
Agreed. I think this was mostly done because it "sounds cool". Anything military is hip these days.
I agree with Lynata, especially about the KGB; one cannot really argue the weapon when they ignore the hand behind it. The KGB was a tool, just the same as SEAL Team 6. Regardless of the ideals they kill/killed for, if they took the orders from the same person, they'd be killing for the same cause.
@Lynata on the KGB. No, definitely not from a western perspective. For several years I worked closely with a team of Russian biologists and had a chance to travel with them in Africa and visit them and their families in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
You do not mention the NKVD, ever. They were hated as were the KGB. That is an era that many want to forget. Biggest social mistake I made on an early visit was asking a question about the NKVD. The question was harmless but my friend later told me in no uncertain terms never to bring that subject up.
----------
On topic. Does anyone else think that the main activity promoted so far sounds a bit monotonous? It might be fun a few times but partaking in a massive zerg rush does not sound that great to me. In the interviews the developer points out specifically that it is an advantage of their system that you are doing pvp in a large group instead of a small one and thus people will not be criticizing your actions.
The logical extension of this is that your individual actions do not amount to a hill of beans. Is there something I am missing here? How many times is participating in a big free for all fun?
I would like to know if you can target members of your own faction. Seriously, after about 5 zerg rushes I am going to be looking for something interesting to do with a lascannon and that pesky 14 year old commander has a big target on the back of his power armor.
JWhex wrote: @Lynata on the KGB. No, definitely not from a western perspective. For several years I worked closely with a team of Russian biologists and had a chance to travel with them in Africa and visit them and their families in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
You do not mention the NKVD, ever. They were hated as were the KGB. That is an era that many want to forget. Biggest social mistake I made on an early visit was asking a question about the NKVD. The question was harmless but my friend later told me in no uncertain terms never to bring that subject up.
----------
On topic. Does anyone else think that the main activity promoted so far sounds a bit monotonous? It might be fun a few times but partaking in a massive zerg rush does not sound that great to me. In the interviews the developer points out specifically that it is an advantage of their system that you are doing pvp in a large group instead of a small one and thus people will not be criticizing your actions.
The logical extension of this is that your individual actions do not amount to a hill of beans. Is there something I am missing here? How many times is participating in a big free for all fun?
I would like to know if you can target members of your own faction. Seriously, after about 5 zerg rushes I am going to be looking for something interesting to do with a lascannon and that pesky 14 year old commander has a big target on the back of his power armor.
one Of the Devs aswered this (on MMORPG) to questions about zerging and blobing:
Hi Savij & StMichael, Miguel asked me to jump in and answer some questions!
To address your topic, when it comes to the structure of campaigns and things like territory control, we're trying to create the feeling of a planetary sandbox of war. So rather than really try to limit & control the size or course of conflicts with very strict game mechanics, we're aiming to create logical takeover & disruption sequences as well as motivations for different sizes (or specialties) of groups to tackle different things. Thus while you technically could attack, say, a small resource-producing outpost with a massive army, most of the time that size of a force would be better directed elsewhere. This sort of thing is still under development of course.
Even in situations where a giant force is warranted, however, we're looking at ways to break up the blob. Making big gains will require a faction to make concerted efforts on multiple fronts and in addition we have a strong focus on the "squad"-sized unit so your elite group of specialists still have meaning within the larger army. As a possible example, if a large force convenes on a fortress they're going to want to open up the gates and that might mean you and your friends who've all spec'd out as jump infantry have a specific role to play in getting behind the wall and cracking things from within.
I agree. He also hinted at "Behind Enemy Lines" operations where players can break away and do some sort of infiltration to break up the enemy's supply chain. I really like this idea since it was only somewhat used in Alterac Valley using the mines or a stealth capture of the GY in front of the boss, but with great success.
AWesker1976 wrote: The chapter I play as in 40K are the Carcharodons. This game won't become dead to me just because "my" chapter isn't in it. Just as I played Space Marine for hours upon hours despite the fact I despise Ultramarines with all my being.
People like d3m01iti0n won't be missed.
First few pages of this thread I stated that I wanted chapter selection. That helps everybody. How selfish of me. I mean I love the Iron Warriors but apparently this game is dead to me now.
AWesker1976 wrote: The chapter I play as in 40K are the Carcharodons. This game won't become dead to me just because "my" chapter isn't in it. Just as I played Space Marine for hours upon hours despite the fact I despise Ultramarines with all my being.
People like d3m01iti0n won't be missed.
First few pages of this thread I stated that I wanted chapter selection. That helps everybody. How selfish of me. I mean I love the Iron Warriors but apparently this game is dead to me now.
How would you explain this fluff-wise? So we're going to sacrifice the immersion of the game for everyone else for a couple of players who want to be able to fly their own colors?
JWhex wrote: The developer in the interviews has implied that a knowledge of real world tactics will give players a great advantage, eg a group of ex-Navy Seals being able to dominate in a short time. I find this to be rather amusing because players will try all kinds of crazy things that no one would try in real life and the result is they will find exploits and loopholes that people wedded to real life military doctrines would never find.
Yeah, I picked up on that too. I think he's underestimating gamers just a bit, there.
Being a military stratagist is all well and good, but you're up against people who may very well sink many hours into learning everything there is to know about the gameplay. I doubt it would be the curb-stomp he makes it out to be.
JWhex wrote: The developer in the interviews has implied that a knowledge of real world tactics will give players a great advantage, eg a group of ex-Navy Seals being able to dominate in a short time. I find this to be rather amusing because players will try all kinds of crazy things that no one would try in real life and the result is they will find exploits and loopholes that people wedded to real life military doctrines would never find.
Yeah, I picked up on that too. I think he's underestimating gamers just a bit, there.
Being a military stratagist is all well and good, but you're up against people who may very well sink many hours into learning everything there is to know about the gameplay. I doubt it would be the curb-stomp he makes it out to be.
Military tactics also do not factor in specific 40k things such as Power Armor, orbital bombardments, suicide hoard armies, etc. Tactics change as technology evolves, the firing lines of the Revolutionary War to the blitzkrieg tanks of Germany finely proves this point.
d3m01iti0n wrote: I said its misnamed and Im absolutely right. Im sure WH40K: All Is Dust featuring the Red Corsairs will be a great game. Whatever it is youre trying to do Im not interested.
What the feth is he talking about?
Anyways im not really interested in the Dark Angels, so depending on how they do the game I may not jump on immediately.
I would love to try out the Sisters of Battle instead of the Dark Angels but if they dont add them till like years later then ill just go Dark Angels.
Of course this is assuming the game is actually fun which im not sure about yet lol.
It makes perfect sense to only have one chapter. On a large scale like this, most chapters are more or less the same, and it doesn't matter what you want to roleplay as, because this isn't a roleplaying game. It's a shooter. Sure, there's nothing stopping you from roleplaying, but that isn't what the game is about. It's about participating in large-scale, team-based combat, and that's how they're talking about it so far. So saying that the game is "dead to you" because it doesn't have your favorite color of marines is a little bit of a silly reason.
d3m01iti0n wrote: I said its misnamed and Im absolutely right. Im sure WH40K: All Is Dust featuring the Red Corsairs will be a great game. Whatever it is youre trying to do Im not interested.
What the feth is he talking about?
He expected the Black Templars to be the "main" chapter due to the title having "crusade" in it. Templars are always crusading against something. He's a lil annoyed that they announced Dark Angels instead. All is Dust is the mantra of the Thousand Sons, so if the game was WH40K; All is Dust and the main chaos warband was the Red Corsairs instead of the Thousand Sons people would claim the game mislead them.
d3m01iti0n wrote: I said its misnamed and Im absolutely right. Im sure WH40K: All Is Dust featuring the Red Corsairs will be a great game. Whatever it is youre trying to do Im not interested.
What the feth is he talking about?
He expected the Black Templars to be the "main" chapter due to the title having "crusade" in it. Templars are always crusading against something. He's a lil annoyed that they announced Dark Angels instead. All is Dust is the mantra of the Thousand Sons, so if the game was WH40K; All is Dust and the main chaos warband was the Red Corsairs instead of the Thousand Sons people would claim the game mislead them.
Here's the thing, it's just a name. I'm pretty sure that zero connection was intended with Black Templars, and all that happened was BT fanboiz got all excited at first and then got unhappy when they saw the word "crusade" being used and it's Dark Angels. Let's look at past 40k games:
Retribution.
Chaos Rising (which ironically added Imperial Guard as a playable faction).
Soulstorm.
Winter Assault (I don't recall them adding Space Wolves or Valhallans? Oh wait, they added Cadians?! The blasphemy!).
Dark Crusade (How did a Chaos-sounding expansion add Necrons and Tau?).
Space Marine.
Fire Warrior.
Chaos Gate.
Need I say more?
Names are names. Stop getting worked up over the title of the game, it's just ridiculously stupid.
Also, it's not like you were mislead into buying a game with wrong information. You just made an incorrect assumption based solely on the title of a game that won't be released for more than a year.
Soladrin wrote: Add to that the fact that EVERYTHING get's called a crusade in 40k... I find it odd that people even assumed black templar based purely on that.
Even the Great Crusade wasn't just about the Black Templars.
Likewise, each of the bodyguards of Alicia Dominica (leader of what had at the time recently become the Sisters of Battle) led a crusade that, combined, were considered the biggest crusades since the Great Crusade itself, with Alicia Dominica being declared a Living Saint on par with Saint Sabbat in the process.
Anyway, I suppose now that the press releases have slowed down, I'll probably forget about this game for a while.
So... my last thoughts.
1: The Ork Boy being five times weaker than a Space Marine will not work in the long run. Eventually, the free to play players will either get tired of being treated like NPCs to be slaughtered, and either buy a subscription to play non-Ork factions, or they'll quit entirely, leaving a horribly unbalanced game even more horribly unbalanced. This has been my biggest problem with the game as the developers have described it, and their Blue Lantern-like assurances that "all will be well" do not reassure me.
2: It's a sausage fest. Feth that, we already have enough sausage fests out there. I don't believe, for an instant, that the developers really respect Sisters of Battle or any female characters at all really, given the way that they have acted, and the way they've reacted to complaints. It being a sausage fest will reduce its player count even more, and frankly I'm disappointed at the fact that they think the only reason anyone would ever want to play women is because they want "sexy" characters.
3: I'm tired of hearing "there's only war" over and over again. I know you need a catch phrase, but come on, at least get multiple catch phrases so you don't tire it out and get people rolling their eyes and ignoring you every time you say it.
4: As a result of the first three and numerous other factors... meh, I'm not looking forward to this, and will probably forget it even exists unless people keep bugging me about it.
Melissia wrote: Anyway, I suppose now that the press releases have slowed down, I'll probably forget about this game for a while.
So... my last thoughts.
1: The Ork Boy being five times weaker than a Space Marine will not work in the long run. Eventually, the free to play players will either get tired of being treated like NPCs to be slaughtered, and either buy a subscription to play non-Ork factions, or they'll quit entirely, leaving a horribly unbalanced game even more horribly unbalanced. This has been my biggest problem with the game as the developers have described it, and their Blue Lantern-like assurances that "all will be well" do not reassure me.
2: It's a sausage fest. Feth that, we already have enough sausage fests out there. I don't believe, for an instant, that the developers really respect Sisters of Battle or any female characters at all really, given the way that they have acted, and the way they've reacted to complaints. It being a sausage fest will reduce its player count even more, and frankly I'm disappointed at the fact that they think the only reason anyone would ever want to play women is because they want "sexy" characters.
3: I'm tired of hearing "there's only war" over and over again. I know you need a catch phrase, but come on, at least get multiple catch phrases so you don't tire it out and get people rolling their eyes and ignoring you every time you say it.
4: As a result of the first three and numerous other factors... meh, I'm not looking forward to this, and will probably forget it even exists unless people keep bugging me about it.
You could play Eldar but yeah it would be nice to have another faction with females in it too (but it probably wouldn't be sisters and more likely the more popular imperial guard) also maybe if you subscribe you can be a nob or odd boy if you're into orkz (like I am ).
2: It's a sausage fest. Feth that, we already have enough sausage fests out there. I don't believe, for an instant, that the developers really respect Sisters of Battle or any female characters at all really, given the way that they have acted, and the way they've reacted to complaints. It being a sausage fest will reduce its player count even more, and frankly I'm disappointed at the fact that they think the only reason anyone would ever want to play women is because they want "sexy" characters.
Warhammer 40k IS a sausage fest. There is one all female faction nobody plays and most armies are strictly all male. And really cool people play genderless races anyway. Hint, hint. Also: I know exactly what will happen to any female character in a competitive MMO. Lots and lots and lots of rape jokes. A lot of them. Tabletop-based MMO, competitive aka strictly PvP, F2P. Equals to mostly male players. Equals to a lot of younger players. Equals to bad behavior. Equals to rape jokes etc.
They should just introduce IG and let people play females if they want to and that's about it.
Imma go roll an Ork anyway, not going to spend a single dime on Pay2Win thingies until they introduce the glorious Necron master race.
...but really, release is in TWO AND A HALF MEN YEARS.
Technically, the only all-male armies are Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.
Imperial Guard, Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar are mixed.
Not really a sausagefest, although some of those armies could certainly use some more miniatures for better representation of their fluff.
Anyways, it's just "bad" coincidence that the first batch of playable races features all of the male-only factions, only one mixed-gender one, and not the only all-female army.
Melissia wrote:And Orks, who let's face it, are male in effect even if they have no gender.
Yes, visual design and player psychology should not be discarded.
I suppose in that case Necrons might count as an all-male army as well.
Sigvatr raises a valid point regarding the misogyny that will undoubtedly manifest itself in the game, though. I don't actually see it as a problem for the mixed armies (I've never, ever, noticed rape jokes in Planetside), but I'm under no illusion on what will happen once the Sisters deploy, for in their case the entire faction will become synonymous with their gender.
Not that it would discourage me. Quite the contrary, actually. When it comes to FPS/TPS, I'm confident enough of my aim. Just give me a boltgun and point out the haters.
Well, it should result in that. But it'll still be there.
We're not living in an ideal world where people behave rationally or bans are instantaneous. I for one will treat it like a challenge. Depending on what players make up the faction, it will galvanise them and make them fight all the harder for it.
Lynata wrote: Well, it should result in that. But it'll still be there.
Which still means he doesn't have a point.
DakkaDakka has the occasional spammer tossing links to some random advertisement, they often last a few hours before getting perma'd. Still get perma'd-- do you say Dakka has some kind of ongoing, hugely prevalent problem with spamvertisements?
And after a while of punishing those who would spout that level of nonsense, those left will be those who, in general, have learned to follow the rules. All it takes is vigilance.
Anyway, I think I've said everything I can say. It's not likely we'll get any trully new info any time soon. This thread doesn't need to be derailed in to a circular argument "but people will act like arseholes" "then they should be punished" ad infinitum
Retards are everywhere, you just have to choose who you play with and ignore the rest. Simple as that. It's never a good idea to feed the trolls. That and you must take into account that not all the players will have the age required not to have a disruptive behavior. Also, some people don't have the mind to reflect their age, regardless of what that is.
You bring up good points BE needs to address though.
1. I agree that making SM's purposefully OP automatically sounds like a bad idea with the current amount of information we have. However, we don't know the whole story. We don't even know a quarter of the story and even though we've heard the catchphrase "War!" a hundred times, Miguel also explicitly said, on multiple occasions, that he despises pay to win. If SM's are unlocked through payment, that pretty much destroys the entire concept.
Therefore, SM's must be higher up on the progression totem, and there must be Ork MEQ's in the works.
This means that something must be below the SM's, and it could very well be the IG, who in the next 2 and half freakin years could definitely have 2 genders that path to different things.. such as the Marines if you're a man, and SoB if you're a woman. Really, it's too early to rule anything out, or come to a solid conclusion about anything yet.
DemetriDominov wrote: Really, it's too early to rule anything out, or come to a solid conclusion about anything yet.
I think at this point, with the information available, this is really all there is to say. We have no way of knowing if the game that gets released looks anything like the game being described in these early interviews, or if the game will make it to release at all.
I dont know if anybody ever played Chromehounds, but it had a map system that changed pretty regularly. It's been a while, but i think it was once every other week or something, and one faction won, and got some better gear, and then you got to choose another faction. You were encouraged to play other factions because your gear persisted, and you benefited for winning battles and wars. You could only get certain gear by playing and winning with certain nations.
I'd like to see something similar. Maybe find a way to encourage people to play as orcs even if you like space marines. And when Orks win a campaign, you get some sort of heraldry or bonus for your space marine or something.
I think we're speculating quite a bit, and we just need to wait to see how the game develops. Details are scare, and they have some lofty goals, so I will assume that everything we know as of now is unreliable, and wait til I at least see some gameplay.
I think Miguel needs to do something fast! A lot of people are losing faith and arguing making us all annoyed (mainly mell), so if Miguel doesn't come soon I doubt there will be half the people watching this thread joining the hype-train in 2 years
The Dark Apostle wrote: I think Miguel needs to do something fast! A lot of people are losing faith and arguing making us all annoyed (mainly mell), so if Miguel doesn't come soon I doubt there will be half the people watching this thread joining the hype-train in 2 years
You can't fault them for making an announcement early just because they wanted to. They have 2 more years of dev before they release, it's not like it's a month away and we're not hearing anything yet. The arguments that are arising are merely self-created by us speculating and speculating some more. As soon as this round of hype dies down and we're back to other things, waiting for them to release, there's going to be less complaining.
Lynata wrote: Sigvatr raises a valid point regarding the misogyny that will undoubtedly manifest itself in the game
No he doesn't.
That misogyny should result in permabans like it would for any other MMO.
So you're proclaiming that there's a reaction that doesn't react to anything....uhm...yeah.
Furthermore, you're comparing apples and oranges again. *yawn*. Comparing Dakka, an online forum, to the behavior in a competitive online game is foolish to say the least. Take a look at LoL. They have a very organized and seemingly strict punishment system. Does this mean they don't have a problem with such things? No. Far from it. The game is still crowded with misbehaving players.
Plus: How is 40k not a massive sausagefest? Most playable factions are male-only, cool people play genderless armies. Then there's Eldar and SoB. IG is pretty much male-only as well. And let's not even start about the fact that the Sandwich Sisters aren't played anyway or rather are, but by a tiny group of people.
Sigvatr wrote:Plus: How is 40k not a massive sausagefest? Most playable factions are male-only, cool people play genderless armies. Then there's Eldar and SoB. IG is pretty much male-only as well.
Now, that is not entirely true. Most playable factions are mixed-gender, this includes IG (the only reason they could be male-only is when you fail to model the faction after their background) just as much as it includes Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau.
Sigvatr wrote:And let's not even start about the fact that the Sandwich Sisters aren't played anyway or rather are, but by a tiny group of people.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. They were fairly popular in Soulstorm, and I wouldn't apply GW's issues in making this faction available for the TT (current codex neither on sale nor downloadable on the website, minis either unavailable or overpriced) as a lack of interest by the general public. Especially as PC gamers are a bit of a different crowd compared to wargamers, even though there is an obvious overlap (-> us).
Enigwolf wrote:You can't fault them for making an announcement early just because they wanted to. They have 2 more years of dev before they release, it's not like it's a month away and we're not hearing anything yet. The arguments that are arising are merely self-created by us speculating and speculating some more. As soon as this round of hype dies down and we're back to other things, waiting for them to release, there's going to be less complaining.
+1
I think the early hype is actually harmful. I see people on dakka planning their units already (there is a CSM Warband thread) and the game is still years from release. My advice: don't spend your enthusiasm all on some early announcement. It's absolutely fine to get involved to a degree, but if you get attached to the game in such a way that you're already starting projects, I predict you'll be running out of steam way before the game launches. Calm down, and keep checking back every few weeks or months to read up on what's new.
Dear fans, Trying to answer a few questions. First, we are not yet ready for trailers. I dont believe in spending money in cinematics that are not ingame. Not for now anyway. The first video we will show is in the works but far from being ready. I know YOU!! Our first video HAS to be ''Shock and AWE'' if not..... I feel I better change my home adress and disapear. :-) So bare with us! BUT We have something almost as good coming!
In regards to the platforms. We have the right for PC, PS4 and XBOX ONE and we have all intention to make it work with next-gen console. My only issue is the business model/process they will impose on us. We just dont know yet.
miguelcaron wrote: Dear fans, Trying to answer a few questions. First, we are not yet ready for trailers. I dont believe in spending money in cinematics that are not ingame. Not for now anyway. The first video we will show is in the works but far from being ready. I know YOU!! Our first video HAS to be ''Shock and AWE'' if not..... I feel I better change my home adress and disapear. :-) So bare with us! BUT We have something almost as good coming!
In regards to the platforms. We have the right for PC, PS4 and XBOX ONE and we have all intention to make it work with next-gen console. My only issue is the business model/process they will impose on us. We just dont know yet.
Last, how did you guys like our first NewsLetter?
Regards
Miguel
well truthfully, i didnt get mine... (altough registered with 2 different mails).
But i think we would like something tangible like concept art, or perhaps similar as what chris roberts did with "star citizen" - http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/ - a game development plan, that covers some basics.
and if you go the way of star citizen in communicating with your fan base, and make such place, so we can communicate with you, and you can drop us some bread crumbs every now and then, think it would help both to keep some ammount of hype and you could get immediate answers if you wanted to discuss some gameplay ideas.
Greetings, a W40k fan!
P.S.
I like the way your open and communicating with your fans currently, so this is just an idea to expand on it!
Lynata wrote:
I think the early hype is actually harmful. I see people on dakka planning their units already (there is a CSM Warband thread) and the game is still years from release. My advice: don't spend your enthusiasm all on some early announcement. It's absolutely fine to get involved to a degree, but if you get attached to the game in such a way that you're already starting projects, I predict you'll be running out of steam way before the game launches. Calm down, and keep checking back every few weeks or months to read up on what's new.
Truth. I'm "part" of the CSM Warband thread and slowly keeping to the fringes of it while everyone decides that we're going to be Word Bearers despite the announced Legion being Iron Warriors, and then developing an FOC, yadda yadda...
miguelcaron wrote:Dear fans, Trying to answer a few questions. First, we are not yet ready for trailers. I dont believe in spending money in cinematics that are not ingame. Not for now anyway. The first video we will show is in the works but far from being ready. I know YOU!! Our first video HAS to be ''Shock and AWE'' if not..... I feel I better change my home adress and disapear. :-) So bare with us! BUT We have something almost as good coming!
This is also very true. Release a trailer that is "meh" like GW does and all it will serve to do is create more negative feelings. Miguel, only release a good trailer when you have one.
zmalamuth wrote:
But i think we would like something tangible like concept art, or perhaps similar as what chris roberts did with "star citizen" - http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/ - a game development plan, that covers some basics.
and if you go the way of star citizen in communicating with your fan base, and make such place, so we can communicate with you, and you can drop us some bread crumbs every now and then, think it would help both to keep some ammount of hype and you could get immediate answers if you wanted to discuss some gameplay ideas.
Greetings, a W40k fan!
P.S.
I like the way your open and communicating with your fans currently, so this is just an idea to expand on it!
Chris Roberts was already deep in development with Star Citizen long before the Kickstarter. He already had an engine, models, animations, etc. all of these assets which he used for his Kickstarter video. Miguel's team hasn't even announced the engine that they're using, and their website looks to still be mostly under construction. Give them a break. The difference is also that as a Kickstarter, Chris Roberts has an obligation to us as the investors to share the information with us. Miguel isn't using crowdfunding, and they have their own investors/parent company that I'm sure know the detailed plans that they have right now. Don't compare apples to oranges.
Miguel Caron has no obligation to tell us what we're demanding that we tell him until he feels that he's ready to. He's already shared initial details from his interviews and look at all the havoc and spite it's already caused. I honestly think it's better for him to just not say anything until the dev team is further in production and has worked out the smaller details.
Sounds like it could be interesting. I'm very interested in this game. I love Planetside 2 and 40k so some kind of 40kSide game would be groovy.
The idea of non-paying customers making up the Ork horde does amuse me, but perhaps extending it to Eldar Guardians, Scout Marines and Cultists might be a better idea.
That way they get to join in on each faction, and see the paid for classes. Might prompt them to pony up some cash.
Pity that Nids are NPCs. I would happily play a Genestealer inside one of the instances (a la the Lord of the Rings MMO that allowed players to have separate 'monster' characters) that could either be built up by repeated play time or playing them could earn some kind of bonus for your main.
So, I could start as a lowly Termagant, work up to 'Stealer, then Warrior, then Lictor, etc. Or for my 'main' character I could earn cosmetics like Xenos kill trophies, Impressive Scars, etc. Don't do anything but add an extra level to things.
I cant get the website to work so that i can scroll down and actually register at all :(
Also I am ridiculously excited for this game. Wish I was going to play as Tau but will play almost as happily instead as eldar, I just really hope 2 things when it comes to this game(right off the top of my head anyways)
1) I seriously hope that when i shoot someone in the head with something like a sniper rifle(eldar long rifle) that they die. Exceptions maybe if they have wargear that would normally give off an invul save in the game,
2) I dont want to be 'punished' for changing races(its not MY fault that my favorite race wasnt chosen for the initial 4 lol). Seeing as how the other races are going to be expansions or DLC Im hoping for some sort of exp bonus to help you progress at least until you are the same level, maybe some cool add on stuff. I dont want to miss out on anything but I sure as hell dont want to be paying for 2 seperate guys either.
Sorry if you did not get the NewsLetter, We have issue with Hotmail and other spamfilter. Same for widescreen laptop (Zoom to 80% and you will be able to optin for the BETA). Both issues will be fixed this week.
Regarding Chris Robert's Star Citizen..... :-) For those that did not know.... Its my project as well. Behaviour Online has 2 project announced: Eternal Crusade and Star Citizen. :-)
I dont want to ''spoil'' a reveal but we will have very soon (hope for this week... most likely next week) for Original content from US! Not a video yet.... You can torture me all you want but like I said.... I KNOW you. I prefer this forum to be impatient with me and the dev team vs being upset that what we give you is not to your level of standard..... and you have been very clear with your expectation: HUGE!! :-)
So bare with us, we will keep you informed (and entertained) every week/months until launch in 24 Months.
I am not about HYPE for HYPE but about HYPE to get your attention and opening a channel for you to tells us about YOUR game.
Regards
Miguel
p.s. If you have the chance please go on MMORPG.COM site and rate the game. You need to be an advance user of MMORPG to be able to do so and if you do please be Honest since ''tampering'' with this can result penalty! :-) We need the extended community support!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is the text of the NewsLetter for those who did not receive it of from some HERETICS :-( that did not yet signed for the Beta on our site. :-)
Greetings, fellow Crusaders!
Welcome to the first edition of the Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade newsletter. I’m David Ghozland, Creative Director on the project.
First of all, I wanted to say that myself and the team here at Behaviour Interactive can’t thank you enough for your support. We knew there would be a big response to a new 40k MMO, but the passion and enthusiasm we’ve seen from the community has gone beyond our expectations.
We consider this to be YOUR game – the online 40k world that the fans have always wanted. To that end, we’ll be setting up a space where you can communicate with the devs and share your thoughts. Expect some news on this front very soon!
In the months to come, this newsletter will be a platform for expressing our specific intentions on this project and communicating the thought processes behind its development. For the inaugural edition, however, I’d like to say a bit more about the game itself.
A World At War
One of the first misconceptions we saw about the game based on the announcement was that because of the game’s genre, people thought that we were making a "traditional" MMORPG. If you looked out our "required playing" list for new team members*, you'd see that we're planning on making something quite different indeed. We believe that the MMORPG genre is one with vast possibilities – just look at EvE Online or Firefall to see how far it can stretch.
In Eternal Crusade, we’re presenting a war on a planetary scale, but what you want to do in the game world is really up to you - there's no traditional quest or leveling structure in the experience. When you drop down to the planet with your friends, you’ll have a great overview of the ongoing conflict due to both traditional UI elements and community channels. If you want to head to the front lines and fight where you’re needed most, you can drive over there and do so. Along the way you might meet players from the enemy faction skulking about, or maybe you’ll spot a tantalizing entrance to the world beneath the surface or a Tyranid infestation bursting out near one of your strongholds.
Or perhaps one of your squad-mates will get an idea to hit the enemy behind their lines at a particularly valuable strategic position. It’ll take some skill to get there unnoticed and you might be guaranteed to have the enemy’s attention once you’ve done the damage, but the game's not going to stop you!
Part of what makes this possible is that MMO technology has come far enough to allow for true skill & precision-based gameplay and we’ve made a deliberate choice to make progression as horizontal as possible. A small amount of power gain is inevitable, but in a PvP-focused game it’s crucial that the vast majority of progression is about filling out your tactical possibilities and increasing specialization. Tabletop 40k has been a big inspiration in this regard, as you’ll see when we talk more about creating your character builds.
The other part is that we’re not creating a "content-heavy" world, but rather one driven by gameplay systems. There are unique spots to find, environmental lore bits and an ongoing narrative, but community efforts and Tyranid invasions drive the battle for the surface while the shapes and challenges of the underworld are generated procedurally. Our aim is to make an online world that never stops being able to surprise its players.
If this sounds good to you, stick around! We’ll keep talking about the details of the game design and other production updates right here, so if you know anyone else who might be interested in these topics, you can encourage them to register on the site.
Until next time, may the Emperor protect!
David Ghozland
Creative Director
*: The four games Eternal Crusade devs must play:
• Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine
• Planetside 2
• Borderlands
• Mount & Blade: Warband
Wait, hold on a second, you're saying that Star Citizen is under Behavior Online? Is there something that I'm unaware about a connection between BO and Cloud Imperium Games Inc. that Chris Roberts owns and is developing Star Citizen?
A quick Google search turns up nothing connecting the two, or even BO to Star Citizen.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
miguelcaron wrote: I dont want to ''spoil'' a reveal but we will have very soon (hope for this week... most likely next week) for Original content from US! Not a video yet.... You can torture me all you want but like I said.... I KNOW you. I prefer this forum to be impatient with me and the dev team vs being upset that what we give you is not to your level of standard..... and you have been very clear with your expectation: HUGE!! :-)
This is the right way to go. Keep it this way please. Release only what you think should be released. Don't feed the angry hordes.
miguelcaron wrote:The four games Eternal Crusade devs must play:
• Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine
• Planetside 2
• Borderlands
• Mount & Blade: Warband
Looks like an excellent list to me. Not too sure about Borderlands (it's fun, but not very serious), but you get bonus points for listing Mount & Blade.
I would add Dawn of War 1 with all its expansions, yet not for gameplay elements but because I think it manages to capture the spirit and style of the factions really well. Perhaps it's something to draw inspiration from when you design how you'll implement the various races in your own game?
I do have one request that I feel would affect the game in a positive way. If even only parts of the game have destructible scenery such as / especially hubs in urban environments, or the ability to destroy bridges and other things that affect logistics would add a powerful tactical dynamic to the game.
I also vote for putting in as much effort as possible to give us what we want; being able to play just about every race in the game as accurately as we can. Tyrannid's of course were a fantastic option to make NPC's, but I agree with the other's that although accepting the enormous task of making a 1v1v1v1 v NPC MMO, we think it still possible to include the IG and SoB at launch.
I feel like I sound entitled at this point, but I agree with Lynata. Relic paved the way bringing the 40k universe to life, follow in their footsteps, and build upon it. There are next to none within the 40k community that actually dislike what they have done for us.
What i'm unsure of however, is wether if it's a safe risk to make most enemies players. Playing as a lone nob and running into a bunch of space marines all controlled by players wouldn't be too nice. Hopefully the game will have some sort of squad mate(s) like the pets a mastermind class from CoV had.
Lynata wrote: Now, that is not entirely true. Most playable factions are mixed-gender, this includes IG (the only reason they could be male-only is when you fail to model the faction after their background) just as much as it includes Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau. ]I wouldn't be too sure about that. They were fairly popular in Soulstorm, and I wouldn't apply GW's issues in making this faction available for the TT (current codex neither on sale nor downloadable on the website, minis either unavailable or overpriced) as a lack of interest by the general public. Especially as PC gamers are a bit of a different crowd compared to wargamers, even though there is an obvious overlap (-> us).
Apologies, I should have made that clearer. I mostly come from a pragmatic perspective aka how the game is actually played in reality, and IG doesn't have any vanilla female models (iirc). And while technically, SW, BA etc. are Space Marines, they are considered different factions.
I don't get why SoB are even close to be relevant to have at launch. They are a very minor faction and barely anyone plays them. It would make much more sense to include Tau or Badasscrons as they got recent releases and are FAR more spread than Sisters.
Sorry if you did not get the NewsLetter, We have issue with Hotmail and other spamfilter. Same for widescreen laptop (Zoom to 80% and you will be able to optin for the BETA). Both issues will be fixed this week.
Regarding Chris Robert's Star Citizen..... :-) For those that did not know.... Its my project as well. Behaviour Online has 2 project announced: Eternal Crusade and Star Citizen. :-)
I dont want to ''spoil'' a reveal but we will have very soon (hope for this week... most likely next week) for Original content from US! Not a video yet.... You can torture me all you want but like I said.... I KNOW you. I prefer this forum to be impatient with me and the dev team vs being upset that what we give you is not to your level of standard..... and you have been very clear with your expectation: HUGE!! :-)
So bare with us, we will keep you informed (and entertained) every week/months until launch in 24 Months.
I am not about HYPE for HYPE but about HYPE to get your attention and opening a channel for you to tells us about YOUR game.
Regards
Miguel
p.s. If you have the chance please go on MMORPG.COM site and rate the game. You need to be an advance user of MMORPG to be able to do so and if you do please be Honest since ''tampering'' with this can result penalty! :-) We need the extended community support!
Greetings Miguel!
First i would like to apologize if my last post sounded rude or disrespectful in any way, that was absolutely not my intention.
I'm aware that behavior was essential in building that first star citizen demo, and you are actively helping Mr. Roberts building the game.
What i meant by linking that "game development document" was just an idea about making some kind of FAQ, so people would stop asking always the same questions, and to define some basic game mechanics.
I'm just and avid 40k fan, and was trying to help!
The best advice one can give ya is to start with a solid base. I'd rather see 3 well fleshed-out features than having 10 features floating around not accomplishing anything. Quality before quantity. Keep it simple first, then work on that base.
Sigvatr wrote: I don't get why SoB are even close to be relevant to have at launch. They are a very minor faction and barely anyone plays them. It would make much more sense to include Tau or Badasscrons as they got recent releases and are FAR more spread than Sisters.
While I don't think it's as big a deal as some posters are making it out to be, including Sisters before Tau or Crons makes much more sense because they're more likely to appeal to the non-tabletop community, who will be making up the majority of this game. I stand by that they made exactly the right decisions for launch races, as they really are the most iconic and well-known 40k factions.
It's more about familiarity. They're women in armor, easy to wrap your head around and very accessible to people who don't know anything about the background.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There we go, accessible is more what I was trying to say than appealing.
Necrons are mindless automatons with only one goal: destroying every single piece of life in the entire universe. That's a pretty simple background concept.
They should just implement IG. It makes a lot more sense than having an entirely new very minor faction. IG is a main 40k faction, the biggest one on top of that, you got lots of stuff to work with and you could just give people a man / woman option if they wanted to.
MandalorynOranj wrote: It's more about familiarity. They're women in armor, easy to wrap your head around and very accessible to people who don't know anything about the background.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There we go, accessible is more what I was trying to say than appealing.
Or you say "Wow! a whole army of terminators? Thats awesome! I'm def being them!"
Followed closely by "LOOK!! I can make the other players hit themselves! ROFL!"
They should just implement IG. It makes a lot more sense than having an entirely new very minor faction. IG is a main 40k faction, the biggest one on top of that, you got lots of stuff to work with and you could just give people a man / woman option if they wanted to.
Sigvatr wrote:I mostly come from a pragmatic perspective aka how the game is actually played in reality, and IG doesn't have any vanilla female models (iirc). And while technically, SW, BA etc. are Space Marines, they are considered different factions.
Oooh. Okay, that I can understand.
(on a sidenote, IG does have some female minis, actually, but they're all metal and none of them is Cadian)
Sigvatr wrote:I don't get why SoB are even close to be relevant to have at launch. They are a very minor faction and barely anyone plays them.
Now, I know this poll can barely be called representative, but still ...
Anyways, apart from my own faction bias, I'd also think it might be "relevant" to make the game less of a sausagefest, and purely from a visual PoV I'd even say they make for a more varied, unique appearance than Necrons once you put them next to CSM. That's entirely subjective, however.
I'd feel less strong about it if instead we'd have, say, mixed IG. This way, however, I'm just thinking "why couldn't they at least make SoB as the female Space Marine option"? It just appears like such an obvious solution to me.
I'd like to think Sisters dont get much consideration because :
1. GW doesn't promote them. At All.
2. Sisters' codex exists in an out of print White Dwarf magazine with no links to a pdf on GW site. So even if someone bought the models, they have no army rule book to consult. Many of the models on GW site have no stats listed on their pages.
3. Special Inquisition models removed from Sisters' HQ and given to the Grey Knights.
4. Special models still in Sisters' HQ have no special wargear, no special rules and despite being a named character have generic statline under "Priest" heading instead of "Special Character name" heading.
5. If Sisters are ever included in other Codex fluff it's only to serve as meat to be slaughtered.
6. Despite being "normal" women instead of genetically engineered abominations, only 1 Sister has fallen to the temptations of Chaos, entire Chapters go renegade on a regular basis. Sisters resist Chaos though their faith in the Emprah, Grey Knights resist Chaos by killing Sisters and smearing their blood on their armor. This isn't seen as Khornate worship by Codex writers.
AWesker1976 wrote: I'd like to think Sisters dont get much consideration because :
1. GW doesn't promote them. At All.
2. Sisters' codex exists in an out of print White Dwarf magazine with no links to a pdf on GW site. So even if someone bought the models, they have no army rule book to consult. Many of the models on GW site have no stats listed on their pages.
3. Special Inquisition models removed from Sisters' HQ and given to the Grey Knights.
4. Special models still in Sisters' HQ have no special wargear, no special rules and despite being a named character have generic statline under "Priest" heading instead of "Special Character name" heading.
5. If Sisters are ever included in other Codex fluff it's only to serve as meat to be slaughtered.
6. Despite being "normal" women instead of genetically engineered abominations, only 1 Sister has fallen to the temptations of Chaos, entire Chapters go renegade on a regular basis. Sisters resist Chaos though their faith in the Emprah, Grey Knights resist Chaos by killing Sisters and smearing their blood on their armor. This isn't seen as Khornate worship by Codex writers.
you didnt read much novels about "Ciaphas Cain"? entire chapter fell under influence of "Voice of Chaos"(dont have book nearby to check the name) , then fought necrons, and in the end went insane.
Or perhaps read the Old comics about Ephrael Stern?
AWesker1976 wrote: I'd like to think Sisters dont get much consideration because :
1. GW doesn't promote them. At All.
2. Sisters' codex exists in an out of print White Dwarf magazine with no links to a pdf on GW site. So even if someone bought the models, they have no army rule book to consult. Many of the models on GW site have no stats listed on their pages.
3. Special Inquisition models removed from Sisters' HQ and given to the Grey Knights.
4. Special models still in Sisters' HQ have no special wargear, no special rules and despite being a named character have generic statline under "Priest" heading instead of "Special Character name" heading.
5. If Sisters are ever included in other Codex fluff it's only to serve as meat to be slaughtered.
6. Despite being "normal" women instead of genetically engineered abominations, only 1 Sister has fallen to the temptations of Chaos, entire Chapters go renegade on a regular basis. Sisters resist Chaos though their faith in the Emprah, Grey Knights resist Chaos by killing Sisters and smearing their blood on their armor. This isn't seen as Khornate worship by Codex writers.
1.2.3.4.5. Codex Witch Hunters had pure Sisters of Battle lists in addition to an Inquisition list. You cannot blame them for axing an army or product line that no one bought. Do you have a Codex: Witch Hunters or SoB army?
6. Let's be real, who takes that Matt Ward fluff of GK killing SoBs to gain immunity to Chaos as canon anyway?
1.2.3.4.5. Codex Witch Hunters had pure Sisters of Battle lists in addition to an Inquisition list. You cannot blame them for axing an army or product line that no one bought. Do you have a Codex: Witch Hunters or SoB army?
6. Let's be real, who takes that Matt Ward fluff of GK killing SoBs to gain immunity to Chaos as canon anyway?
I arrived to the party late, after Codex:Witch Hunters was sliced up to make Codex:Grey Knights, Codex:Sisters, so no I don't have the older codexes...codeces? Whatever.
No one is going to buy a product that is not promoted or when it is promoted shown in such a way as to be inferior to other products.
GW takes Mat Ward fluff seriously everytime they give him a paycheck for his work and keep tasking him with the production of new codex writing.
Edit to add: Miguel, head of the team making Eternal Crusade let it slip in the initial interview how Sisters mainly get killed by their own team which speaks to how his only exposure to sisters fluff came from Mat Ward's Grey Knight fanfic.
AWesker1976 wrote:Sisters' codex exists in an out of print White Dwarf magazine with no links to a pdf on GW site. So even if someone bought the models, they have no army rule book to consult. Many of the models on GW site have no stats listed on their pages.
For whatever reason, a "lighter" 3rd edition Codex (some fluff removed) is actually still available on the GW website: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050291a_Codex__Witch_Hunters I recently joked about how long it might take until the community starts to fall back to these 3E rules simply because those are the only ones still available.
AWesker1976 wrote:If Sisters are ever included in other Codex fluff it's only to serve as meat to be slaughtered.
Naw. Off the top of my head, I know the last Black Templars 'dex featured a joint operation where a Canoness fought side by side with a BT Marshal against some daemon.
zmalamuth wrote:you didnt read much novels about "Ciaphas Cain"? entire chapter fell under influence of "Voice of Chaos"(dont have book nearby to check the name) , then fought necrons, and in the end went insane.
I'm sorry, but the author of the Cain books doesn't know gak about the Sisters, or the Ecclesiarchy. Either that, or he simply chose to ignore all the studio fluff about how the Schola Progenium, the Commissariat, and the Adepta Sororitas operate in favour of his own ideas. To me, such a "loose cannon" attitude severely limits my ability to accept some random freelance writer's crazy plots and embed them into my perception of the setting.
Fortunately, the way "canon" in this franchise works, us gamers and readers can simply choose to ignore such crass deviations from more established fluff if we want to.
Let's just note that the 40k setting as a whole isn't portrayed as a single consistent entity, which means that there are times where we have to choose which source to adhere to. The novels you are referring to are not the only licensed products that clash with current GW studio fluff when it comes to certain details. Multilaser Marines anyone?
AWesker1976 wrote:I arrived to the party late, after Codex:Witch Hunters was sliced up to make Codex:Grey Knights, Codex:Sisters, so no I don't have the older codexes...codeces?
Codex GK actually is the follow-up to Codex Daemonhunters, although it took some elements from Codex Witchhunters as well - and it may be of note that the Sisters' first army lists and Codex featured no Inquisition elements whatsoever. It was really just in 3rd edition that this was added - and with 5th edition it was removed again, as the focus on the army reverted back from its Inquisitorial "part-time job" back to their primary Ecclesiarchal duties. You could say that the Sisters have returned to their natural, proper state now. They just still need a proper book to go with it.
Sisters of Battle make more sense with their "free to play exists only to be slaughtered" mindset than IG do. Sisters are a faction that can be paid for to play like marines and eldar, where IG would be difficult to implement that way-- so you pay to play a beter IG and you play as... what, exactly? Officers? They're just as easy to kill as regular guardsmen and aren't any better at killing other things. Vehicles? Yeah, THAT would be implemented well . I mean, don't get me wrong, I like IG... probably a bit too much actually given that most of my fiction is about IG... but the way the devs have described how they're building their game, IG don't sound like they'd work very well. It'd take ten guardsmen to kill a space marine, compared to five orks, and guardsmen don't get stronger quite like Orks do when they progress in rank-- they're still just human, still vulnerable, squishy humans that die in one bolter shot. At least Sisters have power armor and acts of faith to justify their being stronger than the average human, and GW describes Sisters as the Astartes' equal in battle numerous times.
Melissia wrote: Sisters of Battle make more sense with their "free to play exists only to be slaughtered" mindset than IG do. Sisters are a faction that can be paid for to play like marines and eldar, where IG would be difficult to implement that way. It'd take ten guardsmen to kill a space marine, compared to five orks, and guardsmen don't get stronger quite like Orks do
Guardsmen are the real meat that the Imperium throws into the grinder daily IMO.
Sisters are better equipped (power armor for even the lowest rank & file sister instead of a small piece of flak for the chest and an almost helmet.), better armed (bolters instead of angry flashlights). IG sounds like the perfect throwaway soldier for the F2P lambs to the slaughter to use as they can be sacrificed in the tens of thousands and not be terribly expensive to replace. Just have someone pick up the dead guy's flashlight and tshirt and slap in on the next one.
Yes, but how are you going to advance as an IG when you pay a subscription? Orks can advance as Nobs when they pay their subscription, and Nobs can go toe to toe with Space Marines.
Guard have nothing that can do that. Even Ogryns would be hard pressed to go toe to toe with Space Marines, even when ignoring their stupidity (brute strength, but absolutely zero skill)
Yeah, I don't think IG would work very well. All they have that can improve would be better weapons, but when you can have those same weapons on a Marine then what's the point?
And as for the Cain novels, they're written as comedic fiction, so naturally they take some liberties.
Cadian Stormtroopers/Kasrkins - access to carapace armor, "hot shot" lasguns (can punch through astartes power armor like paper).
Catachan fighters - access to "steatlhy" stuff like camo cloaks, excellent melee skills IF they get the drop on the enemy, can snipe if need be but primarily places booby traps (explosives/poisons).
Sanctioned psykers - for heretical warp magicks.
Skins for sale: Death Korps of Krieg, Voystroyan, Tallarn,
Possible command types for the "war council"
Commissar - access to power weapons, summary execution skill to get rid of troll players (cannot be used on enemy players/long cooldown)
Lord General - elected position by players access to any piece of kit the player wants assigned to IG
Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.
Soladrin wrote: Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.
And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.
Soladrin wrote: Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.
And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.
Well, one would assume IG would get lots of buffs for working in squads, or is that just me?
Soladrin wrote: Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.
And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.
Well, one would assume IG would get lots of buffs for working in squads, or is that just me?
It's just you. If the F2P people were put on even ground with the P2W people,then their fragile little e-egos wouldn't get the stroking it needs from lording their imbalances upon you.
Most likely any and all buffs will come from a "buffer" class that exists only to buff squadmates and draw enemy fire.
Soladrin wrote: Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.
And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.
Well, one would assume IG would get lots of buffs for working in squads, or is that just me?
Moreso than say, a Space Marine squad (that's received far more training than the average IG guardsman) or the effects of an Ork Waagh! from a 30-boyz mob?
Speaking of classes. I believe it is folly to just incorporate the "classes" from the Codexes.
Realistically speaking, what visible traits distinguish a Sternguard marine from a Tactical marine? According to the codex the Sternguard gets access to different ammo types and the rest is gungho-macho fantasies of glory.
This game needs to shrug off the archaic archetypes of Tank/DPS/Heals in favor of skill and tactics to win wars instead of "Diz 'ere perpel shoota makes bigga numbas den yerz"
AWesker1976 wrote: Speaking of classes. I believe it is folly to just incorporate the "classes" from the Codexes.
Realistically speaking, what visible traits distinguish a Sternguard marine from a Tactical marine? According to the codex the Sternguard gets access to different ammo types and the rest is gungho-macho fantasies of glory.
So just the ammo types, since the entire space marine faction is a gung-ho-macho fantasy of glory.
Soladrin wrote:Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.
That's what I'm thinking, too. There are options ranging from NPC squadmates all the way to "advanced IG = vehicles only" - but how well (or if at all) this can be implemented, is anyone's guess.
Of course it could be just as possible to have IG lasgun cannonfodder as F2P without any actual advancement -> pay up and you get to play Marines or Sisters. But I think this would miss out on some great potential for the faction.
That being said, Storm Troopers or Kasrkin are nothing to sneeze at. True, still no power armour, but they could have other bonuses in line with the Guard's more military than knightly (compared to SM) tactics. Even your average IG trooper can get very dangerous once you put him behind a lascannon or heavy bolter - the trick is to use them in conjunction with stuff like smoke walls, trench fighting, and aerial support. If Eternal Crusade features cover mechanics, I could think that IG soldiers get some sort of proficiency bonus here...
Also, I think a lot of people are underestimating the lasgun a bit due to its commonly poor portrayal in Space Marine bolter porn. On the tabletop, your IG trooper has a 1/18 chance to take out a Marine, which by abstraction already includes details such as the trooper's accuracy, the target dodging, being in cover, armour and health. It gets more obvious in the Inquisitor RPG, where characters actually would have hit points (like in the MMO?) and an attack is not an "all or nothing" matter. There, a lasgun has a 1/6 chance of punching through power armour and wounding the wearer (which, on a sidenote, also happens to coincide with the fluff description of powered armour protection in Codex: Angels of Death).
Mix up blobs of F2P infantry with plasmagun-armed "upgraded" IG players, airdropping Storm Troopers, heavy weapon "teams" (would be just 1 player I think?), and tanks, and you've got yourself a veritable threat for any enemy.
The only thing I can think of is restricting armors/weapons from certain players, which I don't want to do.
Everyone can't be allowed to wear Terminator armor into battle for example. How do developers stay true to the fluff without creating an atmosphere of haves and have-nots?
It's an MMO. Some degree of fluff will have to be sacrificed along the way. I think it's already safe to say we will end up with a Dark Angels "Chapter" that will be larger than the Legions of the Horus Heresy, and I don't think they will operate in squads either.
That being said, I think Terminator armour will be very situational and thus not very attractive to all kinds of players.
For a Leman Russ battle tank, a Space Marine Terminator is just an easy, slow-moving target.
Lynata wrote: It's an MMO. Some degree of fluff will have to be sacrificed along the way. I think it's already safe to say we will end up with a Dark Angels "Chapter" that will be larger than the Legions of the Horus Heresy, and I don't think they will operate in squads either.
That being said, I think Terminator armour will be very situational and thus not very attractive to all kinds of players.
For a Leman Russ battle tank, a Space Marine Terminator is just an easy, slow-moving target.
Don't forget: when a Space Marine gets promoted to a Sergeant, he loses the ability to put a helmet on his head. 1 well aimed shot from a lasgun and we need a new sarge.
One thing I do like in FFG's Deathwatch game: you get a reputation bonus if you don't put on your helmet for the mission. "Eternal Crusade" should totally have this as a feature for Space Marines and (once added) Sisters.
I agree with many of the previous statements about Elite infantry.
I still believe that it's possible to have whatever planet we're fighting over to be a major recruiting station for both the SM's and SoB. People can progress equally and horizontally quite easily as an IG (collecting weapons and the like), and then advance to the next feature by joining one of the Order's depending on their gender. Everyone would be forced to start as an IG, Orkboy, Gaurdian, or Traitor until they reached level 20 out of 41 (for example), then have the option of being able to become Heavy Infantry. Player's wouldn't have to start over, but rather have an option to accept their new role and continue a horizontal expansion of gaining Heavy Infantry weapons (Plasma Cannon's, Lascannons, Heavy Bolters, Jump Infantry Gear) and perks (Impenetrable, Master Crafted, Rage, ect.), and though they'd all be considerably more powerful than the regular infantry, I'd see no reason how it would be difficult to implement "Veteran" status for those who chose not to become Heavy Infantry. Instead of becoming a MEQ, players could be given the option of becoming Storm Troopers, Grenadiers, Commando's, Komandos, or other "Elite's" fully capable of taking out a MEQ on their own with Hot-shot Lasgun's, Sniper Rifles, Defensive Mines, Demolition Charges, Flakk Jackets stuffed with explosives. Even if they remained fragile to even the newest of players and incapable of preforming the same roles as Heavy Infantry, an overwhelming majority of players would prefer this degree of freedom over being locked down and shut out of their favorite characters.
Please dont make fun of Zalamut being respectfull to the Emperor!!! LOL
Zalamut, I do not take ANYTHING offensive... well except when I play MMO or when I pratice MMA ;-)
Dear Fans, I apologise, I am not yet familiar with all the forum tools (like how you just add your comments below someone else).
I cant has well answer all questions on ALL forums that the team and I are trying to follow like mmorpg.com (go check this new article on history of 40k Games).
We are making all of the Planets, Space station and Outpost for StarCitizen.
I am working very hard for a new reveal this week but it might have to go for next since we have a very very Long weekend in Canada this weekend.... Canada day. :-)
I will keep in touch but dont blast me too much while I am away resting (actually moving houses!! :-( )
Until then:
It is better to die for the Emperor than to live for yourself
zmalamuth wrote: you didnt read much novels about "Ciaphas Cain"? entire chapter fell under influence of "Voice of Chaos"(dont have book nearby to check the name) , then fought necrons, and in the end went insane.
Though I agree with what Lynata said about Sandy Mitchell being a pretty bad source of Sororitas fluff, I'd like to point out that an extremely powerful psyker was controlling them with his abilities, not chaos itself. And one small thing that can be said to Mitchell's credit is that he does at least make a big deal out of Sisters being controlled.
Anyway, though it's a helluva long way off, still looking forward to the prospect of Sisters being in this. Last time we saw them in a vidya was Soulstorm.
Melissia wrote: Yes, but how are you going to advance as an IG when you pay a subscription? Orks can advance as Nobs when they pay their subscription, and Nobs can go toe to toe with Space Marines.
Guard have nothing that can do that. Even Ogryns would be hard pressed to go toe to toe with Space Marines, even when ignoring their stupidity (brute strength, but absolutely zero skill)
I can see various specialities ranging from stealthy sapper types to dangerous psykers, even assassins would be doable. Mit's not exactly how it works in the fluff, but it's a good compromise for people who want to fight for the imperium but don't want to be a marine or sister.
If players are willing to accept a progression route where a Guardsman can become a Storm Trooper, or a Tech Priest, or an Ogryn, or an Assassin, or a Sanctioned Psyker or a Rogue Trader instead of simply working up the command chain then it is less of an issue.
Does this mess with role-playing and immersion? Yes. But so does being repeatedly killed and respawned.
Yes. They're okay with new players who are just trying the game out being slaughtered endlessly by overpowered paying players and thus saying "this game sucks and it's pay to win" and leaving.
Melissia wrote: Yes. They're okay with new players who are just trying the game out being slaughtered endlessly by overpowered paying players and thus saying "this game sucks and it's pay to win" and leaving.
It's not a F2P model I can agree with.
They would probably adapt it if didn't work in practice.
If it really went down badly, maybe they'd buff Ork Boyz so that three or two of them are worth one Space Marine?
Actually, I can see this fitting in extremely well with the current trend in F2P games and online shooters.
Massive zerg of F2P people vs a smaller 'elite' of paying players.
I think having the Orks as the F2P faction could result in a very fitting and fun rabble of semi-organised types.
However, cutting them off from advancement into the upper ranks of their faction without paying won't impress many of them. That should as least be an option as a F2Player there should be at least one faction that you can rise all the way up in...that only limits you in terms of cosmetic unlocks...not skills, vehicles, ranks or whatever else.
I don't think I'd be that impressed as a F2Player by somebody ordering me around simply because they pay a subscription. (People's sense of entitlement to free things aside.)
The idea that an elitiest clique of players will decide amongst themselves who gets the best toys isn't one that fills me with joy as a casual player.
It doesn't fill me with joy as a paying player either. Just because someone pays to be a leader doesn't mean that they're actually worthy of it. The entire scheme stinks of elitist trashiness.
Melissia wrote: Yes. They're okay with new players who are just trying the game out being slaughtered endlessly by overpowered paying players and thus saying "this game sucks and it's pay to win" and leaving.
It's not a F2P model I can agree with.
They would probably adapt it if didn't work in practice.
Better to adjust it now as there won't be a game or player base left after they notice it didn't work out.
Minx wrote:Better to adjust it now as there won't be a game or player base left after they notice it didn't work out.
There's no reason to adjust anything just because someone on the internet says they're wrong. Y'all act like it's a proven fact that Orks will get roflstomped when they didn't even reveal stats for them yet and we have no way of knowing how many players will actually end up playing what. There is only one way to find that out, and it does not include predicting the game's failure with every 2nd post you make, based on nothing but personal opinion.
They also mislead people as to what would be in the game.
The main problem was trying to mix PVP and PVE and then balance them. Adding huge empty wastelands inhabited by gangs of players actively avoiding each other...ach...the scenarios were fun at any rate.
I don't like the F2P or freemium model because I feel that if I am enjoying a game the folks responsible should be getting rewarded. I see it as more a free trial and if I like the game I tend to subscribe or drop a few quid on it.
While players have the option to drop a few quid here and there many seem to think it 'smart' that they don't. (Clearly missing that they are being freely given something.
On the other hand, free to play works for some companies and they turn a tidy profit. So if everybody is winning then "yay!"
But the proposed model is very skewed its like pitting WOW trial account users against full ones. If the F2P guys and gals outnumber the paying customers it could actually be a lot of fun...but the 'Boyz' only cap...will that make people pay a tenner to unlock being a Nob or make them look elsewhere?
I would pay the tenner but the sense of entitlement amongst many gamers right now leads me to believe that that game is going to have to be fantastic to make them consider it.
Minx wrote:Better to adjust it now as there won't be a game or player base left after they notice it didn't work out.
There's no reason to adjust anything just because someone on the internet says they're wrong. Y'all act like it's a proven fact that Orks will get roflstomped when they didn't even reveal stats for them yet and we have no way of knowing how many players will actually end up playing what. There is only one way to find that out, and it does not include predicting the game's failure with every 2nd post you make, based on nothing but personal opinion.
They said that a Space Marine is 5x as strong as an Ork.
Souleater wrote: I don't know why they set the ratio at 5:1. That seems way too high, especially for hand to hand combat.
I would say 3:1 is closer to the TT.
I can see where they are coming from with the 5:1 ork to Marine ratio. A space marine is a genetically engineered warmachine. Specifically born and bred for war and nothing but war. They spend decades honing their arts of warfare ( war, war only WAR...war) Their stat line on the TT speaks to how they are elite warriors when compared to an Ork boy who mostly is undisciplined and erratic in skills. Before someone mentions their genetic abilities to just "know" how to do things, most boyz do not have more specialized roles other than "I likes ta chop/I likes ta shoot".
So I hear that Naughty Bear (a previous title of BE) didn't do so well. I'd expect to see many of the same executions in EC as here:
Spoiler:
Well at least the work didn't go unnoticed by other studios. These kills use many of the same environmental mechanics and are suitably Grim Dark. I'd hope that we could do some of these things to each other, especially in instances!
Spoiler:
Not to get too cliche, but this next one will probably serve as major inspiration because let's face it, it's the granddaddy of video game executions. I only hope that our executions will not take so long (and make us very vulnerable to combat). I did like Relic's mechanic of regaining hp by performing executions and I really wonder why they didn't do it in multiplayer (apart from vampiric weapons).
Spoiler:
Sindel: Excellent inspiration to a Noise Marine, Ermac: Excellent inspiration to a Sorcerer, Reptile: Plague Marine. Anything that visibly and audibly twists, mutilates, and breaks bone in copious showers of gore would be an awesome candidate for a devotee of Khorne.
Also for more holy combat finishers, see Nightwolf's second execution and Smoke's overloading kill. These two I'd imagine would be great for holy warriors (especially SoB). If you need any more inspiration for dynamic kills, look here:
Spoiler:
and here
Spoiler:
Whatever you do, do not promise us this:
Spoiler:
and deliver this:
Spoiler:
Apart from all that, I really see a contradiction in what I've heard so far and what everyone is saying here. Migeul and BE have already explicitly expressed that this title is not Pay 2 Win, and yet everyone is already jumping ship screaming ratio's and absurdities they fear because we don't know anything other than short tidbits of less than two weeks of information. Really people, go jump in a lake and wait for some clarification instead of reaching a conclusion of convenience that SM's are just going to roflstomp everyone out of playing the game.
AWesker1976 wrote: A space marine is a genetically engineered warmachine. Specifically born and bred for war and nothing but war.
An Ork is even moreso.
Space Marines are just abhumans-- modified humans, who are barely even their own species and cannot reproduce on their own. In contrast, Orks are an entire species literally designed for war from the ground up, allowed to evolve for hundreds of thousands of years of constant warfare-- they are designed so specifically for war that their method of reproduction involves warfare. War makes them stronger, quite literally, and their entire culture is around glorifying war and battle and killing and slaughter and getting to battle as quickly and constantly as possible. Hell, the idea of an epic stalemate against a massive enemy force is the Ork idea of heaven, where a Space Marine would consider it a loss. Peace is utterly alien to them in every way possible, they cannot even comprehend the idea of peace, never mind entertain the notion of it being desirable.
Orks also dominate the galaxy, holding more planets than any other species. Orks are so ubiquitous, their territory is measured in density rather than in battle lines. They are the biggest, most populous threat that any race in the galaxy faces-- even the Tyranids are not capable of putting up such a consistently high threat level over the entire galaxy.
Don't bet too focused on "executions" and things like that. I prefer substance over style, shooting someone with my big shoota and having them fall over will be enough for me. No need for the over the top executions like in Space Marine. (such was the only way to heal damage in that game, there will be dedicated healers here)
If the devs are reading anything I say : DON"T TRY TO BE WORLD OF WARCRAFT!
* Use the dynamic form of combat such as in Planetside/TERA/Space Marine multiplayer/etc where you can't just sit in a corner and cast "player seeking" magic missiles that can turn corners and go through walls.
* Where unless your melee swing actually comes into contact with an enemy player it does nothing.
Indeed. Don't be WoW. Do not be WoW. Don't try to beat WoW. Just try to be the best goddamned game you can. WoW is an anomaly. Its success is irreproducible, and was purely based on luck and luck alone.
AWesker1976 wrote: A space marine is a genetically engineered warmachine. Specifically born and bred for war and nothing but war.
An Ork is even moreso.
Space Marines are just abhumans-- modified humans, who are barely even their own species and cannot reproduce on their own. In contrast, Orks are an entire species literally designed for war from the ground up, allowed to evolve for hundreds of thousands of years of constant warfare-- they are designed so specifically for war that their method of reproduction involves warfare. Peace is utterly alien to them in every way possible, they cannot even comprehend the idea of peace, never mind entertain the notion of it being desirable.
Orks also dominate the galaxy, holding more planets than any other species. Orks are so ubiquitous, their territory is measured in density rather than in battle lines.
Even the most battle hardened, god of war given flesh can be killed if you dump a million orks on him. Orks win by weight of numbers alone. Their tactics are "run towards it and chop it". The average boy sacrifices tactics and skill for brutality and loud noises, .
An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio
Melissia wrote: Indeed. Don't be WoW. Do not be WoW. Don't try to beat WoW. Just try to be the best goddamned game you can. WoW is an anomaly. Its success is irreproducible, and was purely based on luck and luck alone.
And its popularity is going down, now that Blizzard has milked almost all of the potential money they could from the cash cow.
DemetriDominov wrote: I say a big fat massive NO to dedicated healers. Absolutely not.
I should be more specific. In Defiance there is a type of gun that has 2 fire modes ( normal for killin, alternate for healin )
Even 40K and it's GRIMDARK/Only War atmosphere uses dedicated healers (combat medics) such as apothecaries. You're prolly gonna have to just accept it.
DemetriDominov wrote: I say a big fat massive NO to dedicated healers. Absolutely not.
I should be more specific. In Defiance there is a type of gun that has 2 fire modes ( normal for killin, alternate for healin )
Even 40K and it's GRIMDARK/Only War atmosphere uses dedicated healers (combat medics) such as apothecaries. You're prolly gonna have to just accept it.
Apothecaries, Painboyz, IG medics, Sisters Hospitaller, you name it, there's a ton of dedicated healers out there.
AWesker1976 wrote: An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio
An Ork by himself is fully capable of killing a Space Marine in close combat. And that's a regular Ork boy. A nob is more than capable of slaughtering Space Marines. A Kommando is capable of ambushing them and killing them off in stealth . And so on and so forth.
Space Marines are not gods upon the battlefield. Their only real advantage against Orks is their power armor and the fact that they bother to aim, making them more deadly at range in a one on one fight and a little bit tougher to kill. Orks are actually a bit tougher, biologically, than Marines are (Orks can survive things that would kill an Astartes), but wear worse armor.
And even the "dedicated healers" are themselves combatants. Sisters Hospitaller are fully trained in the same ways that all Schola Progenium graduates are, and Apothecaries are still Astartes. Painboyz are utterly frightening to behold, even to other Orks. That's how they got their name after all.
Really, the apothecaries, painboyz, etc of the game wouldn't be much different than the medics of, say... the Battlefield series. They have weapons and are capable of using them just as much as other soldiers, but they have special equipment to revive allied soldiers. Other kinds of soldiers have other advantages, and in this game that might be translated to Assault soldiers having jetpacks/teleporters, for example, and Scout soldiers being able to mark targets, and so on and so forth.
Who heals the Eldar and Chaos? Are only two races going to have healers?
Those examples are more like the assault class in Battlefield, they'll help save you, or bring you back from the edge of death, but are far from having a singular role on the battlefield of pumping you with a never ending supply of stims. We should not see Team Fortress Medics, or WoW priests/druids/shaman's/pallies
If anything, healing should be as slow as combat stims in SM where it may save you from a single bullet while under fire, but is only meant to get you back into the action faster after being seriously injured, and the only people allowed to carry them are these "healers".
Melissia wrote: Indeed. Don't be WoW. Do not be WoW. Don't try to beat WoW. Just try to be the best goddamned game you can. WoW is an anomaly. Its success is irreproducible, and was purely based on luck and luck alone.
Not going to say that you are even close to the truth with saying that its success is based on luck, but they already said it's not going to be a MMORPG.
AWesker1976 wrote: Even the most battle hardened, god of war given flesh can be killed if you dump a million orks on him. Orks win by weight of numbers alone. Their tactics are "run towards it and chop it". The average boy sacrifices tactics and skill for brutality and loud noises, .
An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio
Though the problem with this is that you're assuming that the FTP population is going to be and remain at those numbers. If there's a slack in the number of FTP players, then you'll have an increase in FTP frustration as the game gets even harder for them. But like I said, were this to happen the devs would hopefully intervene.
[quote=Melissia 532969 5787414 27da9160de6cd8131c1fd8cf748cc033.pngAnd even the "dedicated healers" are themselves combatants. Sisters Hospitaller are fully trained in the same ways that all Schola Progenium graduates are
Also, the WD codex notes that the chirurgeon's tools carried by a Hospitaller doubles as an "instrument of torture", so right there they've got a unique melee weapon, and I'm sure that the tools of an Apothecary or Ork Dok could be used similarly.
I think the best way of implementing it would be something along that line-- everyone is a soldier, but with differing special abilities.
So you start off with a basic soldier, your basic rifle weapon, pistol, close combat weapon, etc. Fully capable of ownage. Then you add medical abilities to that. Or you add assault abilities to that. Or you add special/heavy weapon specialization. Or you add command ability. Or psychic powers. And so on. So everyone is capable of basic combat, and everyone participates in basic combat. And then on top of that, they have their specialization, too.
AWesker1976 wrote: An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio
An Ork by himself is fully capable of killing a Space Marine in close combat. And that's a regular Ork boy. A nob is more than capable of slaughtering Space Marines. A Kommando is capable of ambushing them and killing them off in stealth . And so on and so forth.
I don't know about that, have you read Brotherhood of the Snake? A company of Marines resoundingly gakkers thousands of them without a casualty.
I dont think its right to put them even close to parity, the whole thing with Orks is that Nobs are rare, and warbosses are even rarer, sure Orks are "capable" of it, but generally Orks are thick as gak.
And that makes sense doesn't it? They are as strong, but dumb as gak. In the same way that I might be as strong as a 155lb professional boxer, he would absolutely take me apart in the ring, I think that people really underestimate how important training and discipline is. I dont care how strong and touch you are, if I train loads for something and you do nothing, then you lose. The reason it makes sense is because some mad Space Marine from some really backwards chapter like the BT spends literally all day training, and if not training, doing.
If you spend all day in the practice cage, or sparring, or doing exercise, as the astartes do, not only do they have superhuman bodies, they have insane superhuman psyches that allows them to train and train and train and train, while orks just, you know.. Krump stuff!
Except the special ones obviously.
Its why I like Gulliman so much, he strikes me as being the bloke who is first onto the training ground and last off, and in real life, thems the guys you have to watch. I doubt the Orks know much about weight lifting or fencing.
Matt don't take the writings of glorified fanfiction as canon of how strong the Orks can be.
However he articulated my point better than I did. The training and discipline of the Space Marine will always beat the primitive and chaotic nature of the Ork.
That's not to say that marines cannot be killed by Orks, they just have to be more brutally cunning/cunningly brutal to compensate for the differences in training/experience.
Even glory lore can be represented in the game... there's plenty of room for these type of instances that echo the one sided carnage of Exterminatus Mode in SM...
mattyrm wrote: I don't know about that, have you read Brotherhood of the Snake?
I'm disinterested in trashy bolter porn.
If you want to go that route, though, I'd like to point out that there are numerous instances of humans taking out Space Marines in one on one combat in Black Library lore. Orks are tougher, stronger, and have better combat instincts than humans do.
Or you could just post it here like this for the lazy people like me...
We have received our answers back from our Chapter Q&A, I want to thank Brent and Miguel for all their hard work and taking the time out of their day to work with us and answer our questions!
Guild Questions:
Q: There was mention that multiple players could band together to form a strike cruiser-like "guild hall" Is there a limit to how many players can collaborate in this fashion? For instance, if a gaming group has 100+ members, would their vessel be more akin to a battle barge, or would the smaller vessel accommodate enough personal quarters to facilitate the entire group? Would there be a "disbanding" mechanism if a player chose to leave the ship/chapter?
The plan at the moment is that small groups of players can form Battle Squads with their own space, but Battle Squads can join Strike Forces made up of many Battle Squads. In addition to keeping their own space, the Battle Squad have access to the Strike Force’s space. As in the lore, Strike Forces have their own Strike Cruiser. These spaces have customization elements and trophy display options, as well as potentially other things.
It’s still a bit early for us to nail down size details and other mechanics for managing these structures, but we’re currently thinking 2-10 players in a Battle Squad and ~10 Battle Squads in a Strike Force. As with most community features, however, this is all pending actual player testing and feedback.
Q: You've mentioned squad sizes of 10 players, could we please get some clarification on how this will work with large player guilds , will it be a set up similar to Planetside 2 where multiple Guild squads are linked together so they can communicate and take objectives?
Oops, I kind of addressed this above, but yes, it’s our intention. We want Strike Forces to have some way to form even larger structures as well.
Q: Do you plan to have any guild features in game such as custom banners, custom symbols etc?
Yes – and we are aiming to get details sorted about this feature well before beta so people can start making them!
Army Questions:
Q: Are Dark Angels the confirmed Chapter for the Space Marine faction?
They are A confirmed chapter, but there will be more than one at launch!
Q: In a few of the interviews, Orks were mentioned specifically in regards to their funny mannerisms; their humiliating executions being the main example used. My question is: Will orks be portrayed (once again) as just a joke race? Or will they be brutal, visceral and sometimes scary as they should be, with humorous stuff on the side?
They’re not a joke race at all - our goal is to make them fun for the people playing them and terrifying for everyone else. We want players to identify with their characters and form communities so we’re doing everything we can to make Ork players proud to fight for the Waaagh!
Q. Do you have any plans to add the 4 factions walkers ( Drednought,Wraith knight etc..) and if so would they be player controlled or NPC.s that may be called in by high ranking players ?
We want to have them – but it’s a bit too early to confirm them for launch.
Q: The 40k universe is full of unique and amazing vehicles. Do you plan to have player controlled vehicles in the game? Such as Predator tanks and Thunderhawks?
There will definitely be vehicles – they’re a required part of the Warhammer 40,000 experience. We’re still in the evaluation phase on flyers though.
Q: How will you be representing the different Eldar Aspect Warriors, are they each seperate classes, or will your character be able to "spec" into a specific Aspect?
The most iconic Aspect Warriors will be there but (and sorry to say this again) it’s too early to say too much about the Eldar class design – trust that we’ll be making every effort to allow Eldar players to be the iconic characters they want though!
Q: Will there be healing/support classes in the game?
Yes, but our classes are based more on multiplayer action/FPS classes than the usual MMORPG trinity. Healing & support actions are tools for these classes to make tactical decisions or recover from dangerous situations rather than the only thing they do – expect them to spend most of their time shooting and fighting like the rest!
Customization Questions:
Q: How far will customization and the general fleshing out of a character go? You said that there would be an enormous amount of customization, but as far as chapters, warbands, and craftworlds go how will that work? Will a player be able to have a Goff Ork, Biel-tan Eldar, or Black Legion Choas Marine, or will it be one specific union of each race? ON that note, what Hive Fleet will the Tyranids be, a pre-established one, or something new?
We’re still testing how far we can push customization – at the moment we have to juggle three things:
· How many players we want to be able to display onscreen at once
· Readability of enemy players
· Adherence to chapter color schemes & other features
All of these affect the extent to which a player can customize their appearance. Of course, in the spirit of the game we want to have lots of options – we just don’t have the final details on how it will work yet and to what extent it should be tied to specific upgrades.
As for the Tyranid Hive Fleet – we can’t say just yet!
Q: Will we be able to customize our characters besides their armor? As in facial features and such. Planetside 2 was extremely disappointing in that regard.
We’re aiming to include facial customization so you can stride around with your helmet off, but it’s not finalized yet.
Q: Most MMO's these days depend on item rarity to determine things such as damage and stats. Which in turn ends up to separate new players from more veteran ones. Can we expect Eternal Crusade to keep to the mainstream design in terms of itemization, or will there be other things in place to differentiate my bolter from yours?
Since Eternal Crusade is a PvP-focused game, our goal is to have progression (both from XP and itemization) be as horizontal as possible. Thus you’ll be getting more tactical capability and increasing specialization rather than pure power gain whenever possible. Anything that is clearly more powerful will be limited in some other regard.
Customization of your builds is a key part of this game, so expect to be able to heavily tweak both your player capabilities and your weapons to suit the situation.
Game Atmosphere:
Q: Probably the most important aspect to many fans of the 40k universe is the dark dystopian setting, where as most MMO's out there on the market are somewhat cartooney and whimsical. In Eternal Crusade will you be utilising the very grim dark theme or will you be opening up the game somewhat to a more casual and perhaps younger audience?
As far as we’re concerned, the 40k universe deserves the full grim & dark treatment! This is a game for the fans, so expect things to be gritty and bloody all the way.
General Questions:
Q: Will you be attending any game events soon such as Gamescom, Warhammer Gamesday etc?
Yes – expect details closer to the dates of upcoming events.
Q: Is the ammo infinite, or will there be a set amount of ammo to force melee and tense low ammunition moments?
Ammo will definitely be a factor in the game. Running out and having to rely on your chainsword or combat knife is a key emotional experience!
mattyrm wrote: I don't know about that, have you read Brotherhood of the Snake?
I'm disinterested in trashy bolter porn.
If you want to go that route, though, I'd like to point out that there are numerous instances of humans taking out Space Marines in one on one combat in Black Library lore. Orks are tougher, stronger, and have better combat instincts than humans do.
Dan Abnett is a fine writer, nothing he writes is trashy.
What route are you talking about exactly? Either tabletop or fluff is all we have to go off Mel, and Its all fiction, thats why there is no right or wrong answer, unless you manage to make a particularly stirring job of it.
Regards humans, indeed there are. Gaunt and 11 of his man take out 5 Chaos Space Marines for example, but thats my point, exceptional humans, exceptional orks.. can kill Space Marines.
Therein lies the crux of the argument. My regiment was better than run of the mill ones, and there was still an occasional pretty sucky guy (in my humble opinion) the difference was, it was maybe one in fifty. In regular army, its probably 1 in 2, in the SEALs it will be 1 in 100, thats how training works and thats why we do it.
There is absolutely nothing normal or run of the mill about Space Marines by definition of their job!
mattyrm wrote: I don't know about that, have you read Brotherhood of the Snake?
I'm disinterested in trashy bolter porn.
If you want to go that route, though, I'd like to point out that there are numerous instances of humans taking out Space Marines in one on one combat in Black Library lore. Orks are tougher, stronger, and have better combat instincts than humans do.
mattyrm wrote: I don't know about that, have you read Brotherhood of the Snake?
I'm disinterested in trashy bolter porn.
If you want to go that route, though, I'd like to point out that there are numerous instances of humans taking out Space Marines in one on one combat in Black Library lore. Orks are tougher, stronger, and have better combat instincts than humans do.
Dan Abnett is a fine writer, nothing he writes is trashy.
What route are you talking about exactly? Either tabletop or fluff is all we have to go off Mel, and Its all fiction, thats why there is no right or wrong answer, unless you manage to make a particularly stirring job of it.
Regards humans, indeed there are. Gaunt and 11 of his man take out 5 Chaos Space Marines for example, but thats my point, exceptional humans, exceptional orks.. can kill Space Marines.
Therein lies the crux of the argument. My regiment was better than run of the mill ones, and there was still an occasional pretty sucky guy (in my humble opinion) the difference was, it was maybe one in fifty. In regular army, its probably 1 in 2, in the SEALs it will be 1 in 100, thats how training works and thats why we do it.
There is absolutely nothing normal or run of the mill about Space Marines by definition of their job!
Of course, then you have those games of 40k which defy this when your IG roll all 5/6's to hit and wound, while the SM/CSM roll 1/2s to hit, wound, and save...
AWesker1976 wrote:Matt don't take the writings of glorified fanfiction as canon of how strong the Orks can be.
Indeed. It'd certainly be somewhat different if BL would ever release an Ork novel. Remember: there is no truth, only perspectives.
For a different point of view, look how the Orks absolutely slaughtered the Celestial Lions on Armageddon. An entire Chapter of Space Marines reduced to half a company.
True, the Astartes were given faulty intelligence and thus ran right into a series of traps, but you could still say they wouldn't be about to go extinct if each of them would be capable to take on a million Orks all by himself, as I remember was claimed for the Space Marine video game.
Coincidentally, this is why I like and prefer the TT stats before some weird novels -> The tabletop doesn't make a distinction between protagonists and antagonists. Just like this MMO. There will be no "plot armour" for anyone.
Sigvatr wrote:They said that a Space Marine is 5x as strong as an Ork.
I know - which also means 5 Boyz should be able to beat a Space Marine. In addition to the P2P Nobz etc who will surely be more dangerous. In fact, given that the Ork faction receives F2P Boyz as a bonus, I'm more concerned that the Eldar are the ones who will struggle in this conflict ... but then again, let's see what kind of abilities they get.
We don't even know how exactly the Space Marine will be "5x as strong" as an Ork Boy. Will he do more damage in melee/range/everywhere? Or will he be more robust? Both? There's a lot of things affecting the outcome of a potential engagement to consider here. Take my previous example of the IG plasmagunner, for instance. Sure he could be killed quickly, yet in terms of damage output he'll be just as dangerous as a Space Marine, given that he uses the same gun.
tl;dr = it's too early to tell, so we shouldn't be this excessively negative.
I have long thought that they should make an Ork novel, they are one of the most appealing races. I figure that really looking into their feudal society would be most amusing as well.
mattyrm wrote: I have long thought that they should make an Ork novel, they are one of the most appealing races. I figure that really looking into their feudal society would be most amusing as well.
I feel sorry for the author, who would have to write everything in Ork-speak. LOL.
mattyrm wrote: Dan Abnett is a fine writer, nothing he writes is trashy.
Dan Abnett is not a god amongst writers. His fiction has its own issues, and Borthers of the Snake is stupid and dumb and the worst kind of bolter porn novel.
mattyrm wrote: There is absolutely nothing normal or run of the mill about Space Marines by definition of their job!
Yes, there is. There are plenty of examples of nameless, faceless Space Marines being killed off. You named several of them yourself.
Firstly i have to say that this game is so far out in the release time line that bickering over speculation is stupid. Secondly i would like to say that if you want to do 40k ANY justice and make a game that makes you feel as if you have your boots FIRMLY planted in the grim dark universe that is 40k then you should take a good hard look at Planetside 1 and 2. Go try them out and you will not be dissapointed.
They already created an environment that can suport and sustain large-scale battles. The maps are massive with different bases and outposts to capture and control, each territory you take on the map feeds you resources which lets you spawn more heavy infantry, vehicles or aircraft. The territories are linked together which creates some strategic opportunities where you can cut off supplies to a section of a faction's territories making it harder for them to defend and easier to defeat.
They have a class system which is standard in most multiplayer FPS games and they tried to make these classes different for each race by making the weapons unique for each faction. Some might say these standard class options are stale but Planetside makes them their own by allowing each class to be VERY customizable for many roles. The classes also rely upon eachother to work together in their respective role and teamwork is rewarded with exp gains as well as immirsing the player deeper into the gameplay.
They kept it smart by keeping it simple yet allowing for it to be complex at the same time. many of the vehicles and some of the weapons are the same across all factions with each faction having their own unique weapons and vehicles. There are weapons that can be used by many of the classes and they can be customized to match your class and the role you are choosing to fill at that moment. You can also quickly and easily switch your gear loadouts using custom loadouts which really allows you to tailor your class and gear to your exact need.
I do think that each faction should have its own F2P class that would represent the masses of "grunts" you would find on the battlefield. these could be Boyz, Neophytes, Chaos Cultists or Eldar Guardians.
There are so many cool features in the Planetside games that really make it an enjoyable experience with little to no downtime. Each class has a role that is needed for squad tactics and for assaulting and defending bases. A squad with platoons equipped with the right mix of classes will find a synergy that is devistatingly effective on the battlefield.
mattyrm wrote: I have long thought that they should make an Ork novel, they are one of the most appealing races. I figure that really looking into their feudal society would be most amusing as well.
I feel sorry for the author, who would have to write everything in Ork-speak. LOL.
Not everything. Take a look at the "Sneakiest Fing I Never Saw" link in my signature. While it's a short story, it's a great example of how you can write Orks without having it be all Ork-speak.
I think that the 5:1 ratio is not too far off, a single space marine shooting at 5 orks 24 inches away, then moving towards melee, has a pretty good chance to kill them all unless 2+ of them make it into melee because he misses.
On the subject of healers; Im curious to see how they implement them. He already mentioned that you go down on the ground and wait to be picked up or executed. Only medics can pick them up? Or maybe painboys n the like just pick people up instantly or much faster maybe? Or can everyone pick people up and (medkits?) are an item you can earn and equip to just pick people up faster?
My guess is it'll be something like Blacklight: Retribution.
In that game, a person can only be picked up by a player carrying a revival kit, and when they use the revival kit the downed player can choose to be revived there or wait and respawn Other players cannot help those who are downed.
While this makes the revival kit very powerful, it is balanced out by the fact that hte revival kit takes up the backpack slot, which has some pretty powerful abilities attached to it, like the cloaking device, a device that makes hacking points easier, or a device that lets you repair damaged hardsuits (exosuits/walkers).
For those who don't want to read it, it goes into the history of challenges this MMO faces, why the others have failed, and what BE is doing to make this game successful. It does not address the F2P vs. P2P Achilles heel BE is setting upon itself other than players can upgrade to Nobs which is a MEQ. Not sure if that feature is also free (making Orks the free race), or if you have to pay for that too. Also apparently we can build fortresses, there will be no single chapter of Space Marines at launch, only that they have revealed DA and IW so far, combat will be very similar to SM, and they're trying to learn from Warhammer's past mistakes.
Advancement to Nobz is not free. They specifically stated that free to play players will not be able to advance beyond "Orkboyz" within the Ork faction, and that pay to win... I mean... paying players will.
mattyrm wrote: Dan Abnett is a fine writer, nothing he writes is trashy.
Dan Abnett is not a god amongst writers. His fiction has its own issues, and Borthers of the Snake is stupid and dumb and the worst kind of bolter porn novel.
Oh absolutely, yes definitely the best BL writer though, by a country mile. Even if he seems to get to the last 20 pages and think "feth, ive got to fit another 100 in!"
Regards the novel istelf, I thought it was great fun. I suppose thats why the arts are so subjective, same with music, one mans Beatles are another mans Flock of Seagulls. I really think theres plenty of arts snobbery though, music and literature alike, each to their own surely? I like all kinds of books, I like Macbeth the most from Shakespeare, I loved American Psycho, I like Tolkien, Gemmell, I liked the Ravenor and Gaunts Ghosts books, I like a huge wide range of books and comics and I think its a bit rude to just write it off as "bolter porn" because It implies that anyone who liked it has gak for brains.
It was an enjoyable read despite itself, and I think thats an achievement considering he was obviously having to write something that really would appeal to 12 year olds!
mattyrm wrote: There is absolutely nothing normal or run of the mill about Space Marines by definition of their job!
Yes, there is. There are plenty of examples of nameless, faceless Space Marines being killed off. You named several of them yourself.
Yes Mel and you still aren't grasping my initial point. Exceptional Orks and humans kill Space Marines, but Space Marines kill orks and humans. They are not even close to parity, in fluff, tabletop, and common sense, it is all demanded because Space Marines are not human, live for hundreds of years, and train for decades.
I'm not saying they don't die all the time, and getting killed doesn't mean you were not exceptional in the first place either. Its very easy to grasp if you just think of it in military terms. I'm saying that they can never be "run of the mill" because of the way that they train and live. US Marines are run of the mill, Delta aren't, and the Space Marines exist in a way that neither orks nor humans can really contemplate, hence the disparity. Regular troops are run of the mill, elite rare as feth ones aren't!
Anyway, i've seen you have this out loads of times, so there's little point getting into it right? You loathe the race and think they detract from the lore, that's your prerogative, personally I think that they fit in perfectly, indeed, as super elite troops do in real life. With a cosmos filled with trillions of grunts butchering each other on a daily basis, I think a few groups of rare as rocking horse gak ultimate bad asses fit in perfectly!
Just because someone likes porn, bolter or otherwise, doesn't mean that they have gak for brains.
I mean come on Matty, these days, everyone likes SOME variety of porn. For example, politicians often like the most bizarre kinds, as we would know from the various scandals.
why? that is exactly how it is in Planetside 2 and it works great.
a player who is killed is down with a skull and crossbones over their head, this is an easy to see indication for a medic to run over and revive them either their revival tool or their revival grenade.
wounded players that need to be healed have a + above their name. names, class identifiers and killed/wounded markings for your faction are visible through walls, floors and terrain.
medics can also revive downed max suits (terminator armor) but not repair them.
each person you revive comes back to life with an amount of HP that depends on the level of your revival tool with level 6 being 100% hp.
you can opt to be revived or find your closest respawn point which could be a few hundred meters or more depending on the situation.
The medic gains exp for each person they revive and for hp they heal.
the medic still has a gun, pistol and knife with optional grenade and C4.
the medic also has an aoe passive healing ability and a self-heal stim-pack.
the medic should be behind the front lives darting forward into the thick of things to revive their fallen brothers, to protect themselves they have 2 types of armor for different types of battle. Flakk armor that protects against explosions from tanks, missles and grenades and nano weave armor that protects from bullets.
I am currently playing a medic in Planetside 2 and when my guild runs an operation i RARELY have downtime when i am runnng with 50-80 of my guildmates.
The Dark Apostle wrote:Where did he say that when your down you have to be either revived or executed, that sounds dreadful
They said it in the 30 min long interview at e3. Apperently you can T-Bag somebody if you're an Ork, or kick someone's head off like a soccer ball if you're a SM. Those were the examples... I'm hoping they can do better than that, even Naughty Bear had some better kills lol.
Melissia wrote:It's more likely that if the enemy executes you instead of letting you bleed out, they get more xp or something.
Of course, I could just be giving the devs too much credit.
You get the satisfaction of begrudging someone by putting their recorded humiliation on the interwebs. I'm only hoping you get more points when I crush someone's skull with my armored boot, I don't care about grudges or vengeance slayings other than to fulfill them.
That's my hope as well. Just "execute them so they can't be revived, and you get more points"-- which is perfectly 40k. A quick, clean kill on a downed opponent-- an Ork stabbing the opponent's face, an Eldar slitting their throat, or a Sapce Marine stomping their head in, etc.
Whereas "durr humiliate them with yer teabaggin'z!" is immature douchebaggery and has no place in the setting.
Melissia wrote: Just because someone likes porn, bolter or otherwise, doesn't mean that they have gak for brains.
I mean come on Matty, these days, everyone likes SOME variety of porn. For example, politicians often like the most bizarre kinds, as we would know from the various scandals.
Your hatred for the Supermen of 40k holds no bar, Lexlissia.
mattyrm wrote: I have long thought that they should make an Ork novel, they are one of the most appealing races. I figure that really looking into their feudal society would be most amusing as well.
I feel sorry for the author, who would have to write everything in Ork-speak. LOL.
Not everything. Take a look at the "Sneakiest Fing I Never Saw" link in my signature. While it's a short story, it's a great example of how you can write Orks without having it be all Ork-speak.
Anyway, back on topic, I just checked out the website, I liked the sound of it, but.. its a bit.. light on information, is it genuinely happening or what?
mattyrm wrote: Anyway, back on topic, I just checked out the website, I liked the sound of it, but.. its a bit.. light on information, is it genuinely happening or what?
Well, they want it to happen at least. But it's at least two years off.
Enigwolf wrote: Still sounds pretty Orky-speaky to me... lol
Only the conversations are. And not all conversations have to be recorded word for word. For example, instead of having the character say "yes boss", you could say "As an answer, Lork gave a gutteral grunt and began following the orders he was given, his bad mood plainly evident." It's not hard to write in a way that makes most of the writing not have ork-speak.
I'd imagine medic classes work more or less the same as in Battlefield. They'll have some sort of healing device (like the defibrillator in BF) that can revive a downed teammate so they don't have to respawn back at the base, and keeps your team from losing a revive ticket (again, using BF terms).
And Melissa, could you at least try to not be so abrasive sometimes? So you don't like Brothers of the Snake, there's no reason to be rude about it. Not saying every BL book is amazing, I've never read Brothers of the Snake, but the vast majority of Abnett books I've read have been fantastic.
mattyrm wrote: Anyway, back on topic, I just checked out the website, I liked the sound of it, but.. its a bit.. light on information, is it genuinely happening or what?
Well, they want it to happen at least. But it's at least two years off.
Enigwolf wrote: Still sounds pretty Orky-speaky to me... lol
Only the conversations are. And not all conversations have to be recorded word for word. For example, instead of having the character say "yes boss", you could say "As an answer, Lork gave a gutteral grunt and began following the orders he was given, his bad mood plainly evident."
I'm well aware, but novels get stale if there's essentially no dialogue in it. Better novels tend to have dialogue that builds character.
I personally would love to see the construction of bases because that also means we don't have to capture them if it wouldn't be a tactically sound idea.... Plus we also get to build things. It's making castles out of sand I know, but who doesn't love going to the beach and making sandcastles at low tide?
MandalorynOranj wrote: And Melissa, could you at least try to not be so abrasive sometimes?
If you want ot read my posts as "abrasive", nothing I do will change your mind.
So... no.
But I think Matty understands the way I communicate and I understand the way he does, so we're both really just pulling eachothers' leg in a friendly manner anyway.
I've not been overly impressed by Abnett's writing. Eisenhorn, for example, is dreadfully slow and monotonous, and on the topic of Gaunts Ghosts novels, Abnett can't write an effective ending to save his own arse.
Enigwolf wrote: Better novels tend to have dialogue that builds character.
Better novels also don't rely entirely upon dialogue. A character's actions can demonstrate their character even better than their words can, in the hands of a good author.
I really hope that you arent just forced to lay there bleeding. What would be the point in that? Though i guess it might give you a decent incentive not to die if you're forced to sit there and wait to be executed forever!
Oh, and he hasnt said that you can be picked back up once you've been knocked down. But medics are prevalent and it would be silly not to have some way of getting back up once you go down.
Also, as a request for the game. If i shoot someone wit a lascannon or a rocket launcher or a railgun(eventually) they should be obliterated(except of course the things out there with invulnerable saves, which should NOT be everyone). It would be extremely unsatisfying to take the biggest gun the in game(or one of) and shoot a measly ork boy, or tactical marine and not have them explode or be pink mistified!
My guess is that after a certain amount of time, you bleed out and respawn. Executions speed this up but also reward the enemy player with more points (meaning either more "requisition" or in-game money, or more xp) as well, to make it worth doing.
Melissia wrote: on the topic of Gaunts Ghosts novels, Abnett can't write an effective ending to save his own arse.
Aye thats what I was on about, I loved all of those books, but sometimes I would get towards the end of the ebook on my kindle, see that there was like... 185 pages done with 20 remaining, and think "How the fuc......"
You remember that one where they all stay on that really fethed up occupied chaos world? I forget the name... anyway yeah, It got to a point where I thought there must be at least 100 pages left and yet it was almost over. I think he must use an old fashioned typewriter, go to town, and then when he starts to run out of ink just goes.. ah.. feth it.
Sort of like when your at school and you go
"And then they woke up but it was all a dream"
As I said though, I still love his books. Hes far and away my favourite from BL, I don't even read McNeills anymore.
Melissia wrote: My guess is that after a certain amount of time, you bleed out and respawn. Executions speed this up but also reward the enemy player with more points (meaning either more "requisition" or in-game money, or more xp) as well, to make it worth doing.
Might just work like it does in Guild Wars 2. When your health reaches 0, you get in a "Downed" state and get access to a special set of skills...in 40k, you might still e.g. shoot at enemies with your secondary weapon aka bolt pistol or sth. In Guild Wars 2, you automatically bleed out during the "Downed" state but can be revived by teammembers. Enemies, however, can perform a "finishing move" to immediately kill the downed enemy.
DemetriDominov wrote:I personally would love to see the construction of bases because that also means we don't have to capture them if it wouldn't be a tactically sound idea.... Plus we also get to build things. It's making castles out of sand I know, but who doesn't love going to the beach and making sandcastles at low tide?
Ugh, please no bases. I'd much rather see static fortifications on specific points on the map we can fight over and have to plan for or around.
I'd welcome construction like the sappers in "Mount & Blade : Napoleonic Wars" can do, however ... digging trenches, putting down destructible barriers, etc.
This is a feature I'd rather see limited to the Imperial Guard, though.
[edit] Actually, let me rephrase that. I wouldn't want to see huge concrete fortresses or bunkers appear out of nowhere, but I'm quite okay with improvised fortifications that are semi-permanent enough that you'd stick a flag up there.
Melissia wrote:But I still like the Battletech books better overall.
See I'd have to disagree with you Lynata, sandcastles are just way too much fun. The happy medium of course would be prearranged foundations for said fortifications so we don't just have 40k: Tower Defence for weeks on end.
Sounds a lot like WAR, but hopefully we could get a bit of Stronghold going. I.E. A section of wall costs x amount of Rep, a small tower costs 2x, and a bastion tower where a slot for a basilisk cannon that can be used to even bombard players miles away (out of sight even) would be epic. Put a ton of resources in one castle and have it get destroyed means you wont be able to build anything as big for a while.
The team and I really appreciate your support and suggestions.
My new ''no firewall between dev and fan approach'' kind of make them shy! Hey! Brent! :-) but starting next week they will be more present.
I have to apologise for being kind of a tease, saying I am here, answering one or 2 questions only at the time but I am sure you prefer that than nothing and you want me to focus on making the game.
So for now, I will leave you with a reveal that my dear Creative did in a french interview with jeuxonline. http://www.jeuxonline.info/actualite/40638/miguel-caron-david-ghozland-nous-parlent-warhammer-40-000-eternal-crusade The funny part is that the dev team is always holding my leash for me NOT to reveal to much right away and this reveal was not suppose to be out already.
sooooo!!!
I tricked you saying we will only have on faction by race. At launch Space Marine will have 4 Chapters available. :-)
guess which one we choose for you. Well we choose the one we think the majority will prefer AND I have to say that I did leave the team to please themself as well in the choice. I hope you dont mind.
Enjoy the weekend (long weekend for Canadian).
and remember that yes we will take your suggestions at heart but:
A single thought of heresy can blight a lifetime of faithful duty
Miguel
Your Studio Head Behaviour Online.
Well, its starting to sound like they've learned a bit from WAR, taken what they wilt of Planetside, Guildwars, and SM, and gambled a bit with the Ork race. I just hope there's enough players to make dying a lot enjoyable... I mean if the Orks in Exterminatus weren't actually a mindless horde, but rather players, I'd imagine hardly any SM would get past level 5, let alone enjoy themselves at level 15 and above..
Because hardly anyone plays SM anymore, I've soloed lvl 15 - 16 before (it's impossible to do the 3 point capture solo at lvl 18 on the hab bloc) I killed 198 Orks in the period of about 15 mins (that's freaking forever in any TPS/FPS). Doing it with just 4 people seems easy, but thats because you just run/jump in circles picking them off. Give Orks jump packs and brains of actual people behind them, I don't care if the ratio is 3:1, 5:1, or 198:1 (it never will be), it's going to be god awful as a SM if there's going to be thousands of F2P characters - especially take and hold missions where SM's can't move.
Blood Ravens would be good to draw in players from DoW. Would they be able to get the rights to use BR in this game?
At the moment I'm thinking of playing Orks or Eldar. Orks are just fun. And if we get a lot of F2P folks joining in then the Marines can see exactly how things would REALLY turn out.
Eldar could be cool but the voices in DoW really grated on me.
Actually, I'd say the average spiky emo marine is less skilled, experienced, nad disciplined than the average loyalist. You're thinking of the surviving legionnaires probably, who aren't the average chaos marine.
4 Chapters, huh?
Not planning to play Space Marines, but in addition to the Dark Angels, I think Blood Ravens (as carryover from Dawn of War) and Black Templars (as carryover from the last attempt at a 40k MMO) would be cool.
For the 4th Chapter, I'm torn. Personally, I'd like to see one of the lesser known ones or even a Chapter that you guys have made up yourselves - but Ultramarines are almost a must-have, and the Space Wolves are extremely popular amongst Marine fans.
If the "4 Chapters" thing applies to CSM as well, I would suggest having 1 Legion for each of the 4 Chaos Gods. Black Legion, Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Thousand Sons?
I wonder how they're going to implement pyskers with BT's in the game. I wouldn't mind having the BT's be a sort of Easter Egg experience, like having the site of an old crusade in the middle of the Tyrannid Horde. I love em to death those BT's, but unfortunately they just don't play nice with other Imperials.
@Melissa depends on the traitor chapter and warrior, loyalists are as thin blooded as traitors. But in terms of Legionnaires who fought in the great crusade and in the heresy there are few that can match them especially the new thin bloods
@Lynata Though I am a huge fan of Legions devoted to a particular Chaos Patron I don't know if this would work in terms of gameplay. (you forgot the world eaters as well) Due simply because if someone belonged to The Emperor's Children and was a bezerker it wouldn't go with the canon.
it should be Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Black Legion, Word Bearers since you'd be able to play as a sonic marine/thousand son/bezerker/plague marine in each of these factions without ruining the immersion...
But Ifepy the Night Lords look down upon those who associate themselves with the entities of the warp
Yes they do... However as Uzas of X Company said when questioned about his devotion to khorne, "I never worshiper anything, chaos is a tool to use when needed"
There's your answer.
Though I would love to see those other legions in the game
The Dark Apostle wrote: Chaos are going to be heavily out numbered by the looks of things. Luckily normal chaos marines rival normal marines at an average of 1:2
In Age of Reckoning, Chaos had always more players, because your usual "Emo gamer kid" wants to look badass with spikes and stuff, so i think this time it wont be much more different.
Forgotten? I just named what I thought would be one popular example per Chaos God. I know there are many more, but the same goes for the Space Marines.
Ifepy wrote:simply because if someone belonged to The Emperor's Children and was a bezerker it wouldn't go with the canon
So make Berserkers unavailable for everyone.
It wasn't a problem in Dawn of War or the Space Marine multiplayer - I don't see why it should be different for Eternal War. At least this way, you'll cover more Chaos fans (god affiliation), I think.
Included Chapters and Legions should be determined on how different the Chapter/Legion operate and conduct war/day to day minutia, not what color their armor is.
The Black Legion incorporates all aspects of any Chaos Legion. They don't discriminate on the basis of religion, they'll accept anyone into their group. Including warbands from other legions is little more than "Hey my armor is a different color than yours". Most of the differences between Legions with the exception of the 4 Legions who dedicate themselves to only 1 of the 4 powers are role play. Word Bearers are more religious than other Legions, Night Lords don't worship Chaos as much as other Legions, Iron Warriors use siege warfare more often.
The same with Loyalist Chapters.
Chaos should be represented by Black Legion - their lore includes any and all different types of traitors regardless of their religious leanings.
Loyalist Chapters (if there will be 4) should be represented by:
1. Ultramarines - a "codex" chapter includes almost all types of units you could ask for. Other Chapters should be considered in how they bring that "lil something extra you can't get in a Codex Chapter. Most differences will boil down to role play like the Chaos Legions.
2. Black Templars - Sword Brethren squads, The Emperor's Champion.
3. Grey Knights - ignore the fluff of super duper secrecy for the sake of gameplay.
4. Space Wolves - Rune Priests
AWesker1976 wrote:Included Chapters and Legions should be determined on how different the Chapter/Legion operate and conduct war/day to day minutia, not what color their armor is. [...] Most of the differences between Legions with the exception of the 4 Legions who dedicate themselves to only 1 of the 4 powers are role play.
Given that the different Chapters and Legions will very likely just be "skins" (considering they are one single faction), isn't any difference between them in the game ultimately "just roleplay"? Explain to me the difference between a Rune Priest and a normal Space Marine Librarian, for example.
Basically, I'd counter that argument with that the Chapters/Legions should be determined by what is popular and thus actually draws people to them. And if potential players are more concerned about "their armour colour" (meaning, fluff background) than supposed differences in gameplay, which I believe to be the case, then ...
I mean, this is 40k. Fans whose primary interest would be a greater variance in gameplay would play an entirely different faction, rather than choosing grey marines over blue marines.
Or red marines, or red marines with spikes, or the OTHER red marines with spikes, or the OTHER grey marines, or the grey marines with cybernetic limbs, or the OTHER grey marines with cybernetic limbs, or the OTHER grey marines that we swear are really different this time no really, honest! and et cetera.
Remember the hardcore 40k fan will care about the subtle differences between chapters that the casual player won't notice or care about.
What "draws" a player to desperately want to be a Dark Angel Assault Marine as opposed to an Ultramarine one, or Blood Angel one? Sacrifices in choices that pertain solely on roleplaying/tabletop fluff have to be considered due to the fact that all chapters and all legions cannot be included without dedicating the lion's share of the dev time and budget thus sacrificing quality for the other factions involved. If the devs have to worry about everyone's favorite chapter or legion, then Eldar/Orks will be neglected and the game will suffer as a result.
Grey Knights bring more to the table than "picking a grey armor over a blue one" due to chapter organization, battle tactics, wargear available to them. They don't have the counterparts in other chapters. An Ultramarine Devastator is no different from a Dark Angel/Blood Angel/Imperial Fist. If the most important thing for a game looking to play a Chaos Raptor is the color of the armor and the heraldry on their shoulder then they can roll a Black Legion Raptor and buy whatever skin pack they want.
Gameplay has to trump roleplaying and favorite colors.
Grey Knights bring more to the table than "picking a grey armor over a blue one" due to chapter organization, battle tactics, wargear available to them. They don't have the counterparts in other chapters. An Ultramarine Devastator is no different from a Dark Angel/Blood Angel/Imperial Fist. If the most important thing for a game looking to play a Chaos Raptor is the color of the armor and the heraldry on their shoulder then they can roll a Black Legion Raptor and buy whatever skin pack they want.
Gameplay has to trump roleplaying and favorite colors.
I noticed you never included Space Wolves. Space Wolf Long Fangs are, for Codex intents, the same thing as a Devastator squad. However, they are drawn from the ranks of seasoned warriors rather than newer-to-the-battlefield warriors. Blood Angels Assault Marines are different from Ultramarine Assault Marines. There ARE Chapter differentiations. This also applies to Chaos, mind. And whoever came up with the idea that "Black Legion = EVERYONE" is just plain silly. They have their own culture and tactical style too.
Blood Angel Assault MArines differ in role play and fluff only. You need to understand - minor deviations in chapter beliefs cannot be represented completely in gameplay. That's roleplay. Will an Ork being torn up by a chainsword be any different because the Marine holding the sword is a Dark Angel instead of a Blood Angel?
I didn't include Long Fangs because I assume that you would grasp my point of a devastator is a devastator is a devastator regardless of the picture on their left shoulder.
AWesker1976 wrote: Blood Angel Assault MArines differ in role play and fluff only. You need to understand - minor deviations in chapter beliefs cannot be represented completely in gameplay. That's roleplay. Will an Ork being torn up by a chainsword be any different because the Marine holding the sword is a Dark Angel instead of a Blood Angel?
I didn't include Long Fangs because I assume that you would grasp my point of a devastator is a devastator is a devastator regardless of the picture on their left shoulder.
The point I'm trying to prove is that you didn't include Long Fangs because they are distinctively different unit in their Codex. If the Codex did not have such a unit, despite the fluff for Long Fangs, that has been around for ages, you would be telling me that Long Fangs are Devastators are Devastators. I don't think this game is simply going to distinctify a unit because of Codex differences, but it is important to note that what is something for one Chapter is not the same something for another Chapter.
Well considering this game is for warhammer fans I am pretty sure they would care about what chapters they get to play and understand the difference between a blood angel and salamander marine.
I'm talking about gameplay mechanics you are speaking to fluff and roleplay, what specific mechanic that can be programmed into code would distinguish a Long Fang from any Devastator?
Fluff in the codex can not be quantified into code. Chapter beliefs, chapter history, subtle nuances and minutia does not translate to cold, hard computer code.
The reason neither of us can see the other's point is what we are trying to communicate to each other doesn't translate.
AWesker1976 wrote:Remember the hardcore 40k fan will care about the subtle differences between chapters that the casual player won't notice or care about. [...] Sacrifices in choices that pertain solely on roleplaying/tabletop fluff have to be considered due to the fact that all chapters and all legions cannot be included without dedicating the lion's share of the dev time and budget thus sacrificing quality for the other factions involved.
This seems like a contradictory statement. "The hardcore fan does care for fluff and rp - let's just ignore them"?
Or are you suggesting that this game should focus on a broader audience instead of taking a "fans first" approach? In that case, I could see your point - but I wouldn't like the direction.
unmercifulconker wrote:Well considering this game is for warhammer fans I am pretty sure they would care about what chapters they get to play and understand the difference between a blood angel and salamander marine.
This game isn't for Warhammer fans specifically. It's for gamers. If they were gearing this to 40k fans alone, the game wouldn't last long. Even the Dawn of War series and Space Marine had to cut corners to sell it to the public gamer audience.
AWesker1976 wrote:I'm talking about gameplay mechanics you are speaking to fluff and roleplay, what specific mechanic that can be programmed into code would distinguish a Long Fang from any Devastator?
Fluff in the codex can not be quantified into code. Chapter beliefs, chapter history, subtle nuances and minutia does not translate to cold, hard computer code.
I agree that the game will not make a difference. I am merely correcting your earlier point that X Y and Z Chapters' Devastators are the same, and other such comments along the same vein.
I agree that the game will not make a difference. I am merely correcting your earlier point that X Y and Z Chapters' Devastators are the same, and other such comments along the same vein.
We're still playing the game mechanic vs fluff game. Let's just agree to disagree and let the thread go back to the game instead of continuing this line of thought.
Enigwolf wrote:This game isn't for Warhammer fans specifically. It's for gamers. If they were gearing this to 40k fans alone, the game wouldn't last long. Even the Dawn of War series and Space Marine had to cut corners to sell it to the public gamer audience.
You sure? I tend to perceive the gaming industry as being largely dominated by some very few AAA-titles that ultimately render 99% of all attempts to topple them futile, resulting in a huge waste of investment by catering not to loyal fans but to the faceless "average gamer" - who then just ends up ignoring your product.
Call me naive, but I'd rather see more high-quality niche games like EVE or Mount & Blade that don't even try to compete with the #1 and instead focus on delivering to a smaller, yet more reliable crowd of long-term fans. What's the point of tapping the 40k IP if you do not intend to market it to 40k fans? If you're relying almost exclusively on gameplay, you don't need an established brand to release a successful title.
(and what corners are you referring to in the two examples you mentioned?)
(and what corners are you referring to in the two examples you mentioned?)
Dawn of War was a RTS set in the 40K universe not a 40K game with RTS traits. You didn't need to have a 40k Loremaster Phd to jump in and start building an army.
Space Marine was a generic 3rd person run and gun adventure game set in the 40K universe, you literally could have cut the Ultramarines completely out of the game and replaced them with any generic army and nothing would be different.
I wouldn't suggest trying to cater to the "average gamer", but catering to only the 40k fans is a losing prospect, considering that 40k is a niche market and doesn't always attract the sorts of people who would be in to a competitive shooter. If it was an MMOTBS instead of an MMO3PS, that'd be different.
AWesker1976 wrote:Dawn of War was a RTS set in the 40K universe not a 40K game with RTS traits. You didn't need to have a 40k Loremaster Phd to jump in and start building an army.
Space Marine was a generic 3rd person run and gun adventure game set in the 40K universe, you literally could have cut the Ultramarines completely out of the game and replaced them with any generic army and nothing would be different.
Yet that doesn't really address the question - what corners were cut, meaning which elements of 40k were sacrificed for gameplay there?
(and for the Space Marine game, I'd actually say that the Ultramarines easily qualify as the most fitting Chapter for much of the dialogue, considering how often Brother Whatshisname ranted on about the Codex Astartes saying this and that ... I think it would have been somewhat odd if you'd have played this as, say, a Space Wolf)
Melissia wrote:I wouldn't suggest trying to cater to the "average gamer", but catering to only the 40k fans is a losing prospect, considering that 40k is a niche market and doesn't always attract the sorts of people who would be in to a competitive shooter. If it was an MMOTBS instead of an MMO3PS, that'd be different.
Naturally, a balance would have to be struck - I just think it is quite possible to produce an enticing game without "cutting corners".
Enigwolf wrote:This game isn't for Warhammer fans specifically. It's for gamers. If they were gearing this to 40k fans alone, the game wouldn't last long. Even the Dawn of War series and Space Marine had to cut corners to sell it to the public gamer audience.
You sure? I tend to perceive the gaming industry as being largely dominated by some very few AAA-titles that ultimately render 99% of all attempts to topple them futile, resulting in a huge waste of investment by catering not to loyal fans but to the faceless "average gamer" - who then just ends up ignoring your product
I agree. There's a HUGE amount of F2P-shooters aka F2PFPS out there with no theme at all and the amount of active users in there is just ridiculous. I am fairly sure that a large part of the 40k F2PFPS game will also consists of people who aren't 40k fans at all. That's not a bad thing, in the contrary.
. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like 
