The rumors for Devs say there will be older marks of armor on the sprue.
Could these be the heresy era Marines that were rumored to be coming out?????
Faerit and Steve the Warboss as source?
The same post there claims that the Dev box will come with 5 boltguns.
Here is some valid points to take in that consideration: Have you heard any rumors about GW pulling a 9 month old set of the shelves to remake it? Because that's what is likely to happen if they change weapons in the devastator box from two to one. Wondering what I am talking about? I'm talking about Space Wolves Long Fangs. That box uses the Devastator Heavy weapons sprue and was released late summer last year.
Just think about it? Why would GW spend money on making two molds when they can do one?
It's not like they can use a fictional new sprue in the SW:LF box, that unit don't have a Gravcannon option...
Sorry, but my bulls**t detector is peaking. Also, the Devastators sprue is one of the first sets released with the “new” GWSM standard of gluing the arm and weapon hand together.
@Carnage43 -- I'm missing something.. what is the funny part about 404?
The 302 is actually more significant. Not sure if you're aware, but if you enter a valid page on GW's website, but miscapitalizaed, you get redirected to the "correctly capitalized" version of the file. This is probably because of one of the most annoying (in my opinion) things about Unix/Linux -- Default.htm is different from default.htm in the file system, and the web server software works the same way (I think you can turn it off). Before it's "fixed" on their end (I assume as they prepare the page or item), if you request command-tanks, it redirects it to Command-Tanks, before generating the error. If you typed in robot-tanks, you would go straight to the error.
It's actually really easy to see in action. Just click on any item on the GW website, and then change the capitalization. You'll see it "corrects" it for you. Now misspell something, and you'll see that there's no correction.
I think whoever figured this out as a way to fish for product releases earlier than the announcements wins bonus nerd points
Talys wrote: @Carnage43 -- I'm missing something.. what is the funny part about 404?
The 302 is actually more significant. Not sure if you're aware, but if you enter a valid page on GW's website, but miscapitalizaed, you get redirected to the "correctly capitalized" version of the file. This is probably because of one of the most annoying (in my opinion) things about Unix/Linux -- Default.htm is different from default.htm in the file system, and the web server software works the same way (I think you can turn it off). Before it's "fixed" on their end (I assume as they prepare the page or item), if you request command-tanks, it redirects it to Command-Tanks, before generating the error. If you typed in robot-tanks, you would go straight to the error.
It's actually really easy to see in action. Just click on any item on the GW website, and then change the capitalization. You'll see it "corrects" it for you. Now misspell something, and you'll see that there's no correction.
I think whoever figured this out as a way to fish for product releases earlier than the announcements wins bonus nerd points
404 is an error code for Page or File not Found. Because the page doesn't exist completely yet, the code being 404 is funny to people who know that error code.
Talys wrote: @Carnage43 -- I'm missing something.. what is the funny part about 404?
The 302 is actually more significant. Not sure if you're aware, but if you enter a valid page on GW's website, but miscapitalizaed, you get redirected to the "correctly capitalized" version of the file. This is probably because of one of the most annoying (in my opinion) things about Unix/Linux -- Default.htm is different from default.htm in the file system, and the web server software works the same way (I think you can turn it off). Before it's "fixed" on their end (I assume as they prepare the page or item), if you request command-tanks, it redirects it to Command-Tanks, before generating the error. If you typed in robot-tanks, you would go straight to the error.
It's actually really easy to see in action. Just click on any item on the GW website, and then change the capitalization. You'll see it "corrects" it for you. Now misspell something, and you'll see that there's no correction.
I think whoever figured this out as a way to fish for product releases earlier than the announcements wins bonus nerd points
404 is an error code for Page or File not Found. Because the page doesn't exist completely yet, the code being 404 is funny to people who know that error code.
Yes, I know what a 404 error is, bud if you read my post you see that the 404 is not what is significant (you could enter Fred-flinstone and get the same 404). What is significant is the 302 redirect to the correctly capitalized page (for example, Fred-Flinstone), which you can see in the URL.
If you enter a valid but miscapitalized page the web server ALWAYS goes to a 302 error that redirects to the correctly capitalized page.
Crazyterran wrote: Grav Cannon devastators? Step aside, sternguard! There's a new drop pod cheesemaster in town.
Indeed. Though Combi-Melta Sternguard will still see use due to special ammo and Melta basically making them able to take on any threat. They need to make it so IF Sternguard get Bolter Drill on Sternguard ammo though.
Crazyterran wrote: Grav Cannon devastators? Step aside, sternguard! There's a new drop pod cheesemaster in town.
Indeed. Though Combi-Melta Sternguard will still see use due to special ammo and Melta basically making them able to take on any threat. They need to make it so IF Sternguard get Bolter Drill on Sternguard ammo though.
Eh, if I'm dropping melta currently, it's in a command squad with 5 meltaguns. Sure, no special ammo, but the meltaguns get to shoot more than once, too.
You know, if they live through the reprisal.
Just means there will more more competition for the heavy support slots, since between drop Grav devs, thunderfire cannons and Grav cents...
Especially if the rumoured vehicle squads are true.
Crazyterran wrote: Grav Cannon devastators? Step aside, sternguard! There's a new drop pod cheesemaster in town.
Indeed. Though Combi-Melta Sternguard will still see use due to special ammo and Melta basically making them able to take on any threat. They need to make it so IF Sternguard get Bolter Drill on Sternguard ammo though.
Eh, if I'm dropping melta currently, it's in a command squad with 5 meltaguns. Sure, no special ammo, but the meltaguns get to shoot more than once, too.
You know, if they live through the reprisal.
Just means there will more more competition for the heavy support slots, since between drop Grav devs, thunderfire cannons and Grav cents...
Especially if the rumoured vehicle squads are true.
Well, the Command Squad is a slotless choice as of right now (sure, you had to buy a stupid Captain/Librarian/Chaplain to get one...), so you could buy both. But yeah, Grav Cannon Dev squad would be mean to drop.
Id love to see some older armour kits for the devs and assault marines, especially if its older mks
esp for the assault marines the kit is showing its age, lots of the details on the mold seem fuzzy too.
Hopefully all the good stuff like chapter tactics will stay, relics will get cleared up a bit too likely to conform with other codexes.
Id love to be suprised by another kit or two as well, wouldnt we all?
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Crazyterran wrote: If they cost the same as lascannons (20pts) it would be 185 to drop 12 Grav shots into someone's face., 3 shots at bs5.
Maybe they'll let ultramarines devs be relentless when disembarking! :p
yes! thats going to be crazy to deal with, and you know there will be at least one or two formations that buff stuff in drop pods cause thats totally in the fluff.
esp for the assault marines the kit is showing its age, lots of the details on the mold seem fuzzy too.
Yeah, the current ASM, Devastator, and Command sprues are all "fuzzy" that way. Just older plastics, before GW mastered clean molds/sprues. Also, they barely have any parts compared to modern frames.
Jehan-reznor wrote: I really want to see some sprue shots, i hope there will be less over abundance of MK7 heads and more diversity.
Hopefully it is atleast as diverse as the tactical squad kit. That was a step in the right direction.
Kosake wrote: If Devs get shiny new kits while havocs keep running around with their old 3e stuff I'll be pissed. Oh wait, I already am...
Just use the loyalist box. Grab some heavy stubbers and use the barrels to convert the heavy bolters to Autocannons. Sell the Grav cannon to local marine players to recoup some costs.
Then remember that havocs suck, go oblits.
Go take your chaos tears to another thread, so this one can stay on topic.
What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).
casvalremdeikun wrote: What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).
Maybe they'll let us take squadrons of them. Or maybe they'll give them a small points drop.
Don't see them giving it old interceptor, or some special rule that lets them fire full ballistic skill at any target as long as it is not shaken or stunned.
All I care about is whether or not they get a Flesh Tearers-esque formation. It'd be nice to do my AdMech Explorator army with only three 'dexes and one HQ/Troop tax, rather than four and two respectively(presently need C:SM for the GravCents as Myrmidons, C:BA for the Rhinos to transport Skitarii).
casvalremdeikun wrote: What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).
Maybe they'll let us take squadrons of them. Or maybe they'll give them a small points drop.
Don't see them giving it old interceptor, or some special rule that lets them fire full ballistic skill at any target as long as it is not shaken or stunned.
Maybe they could have two different firing profiles. Or heck, just give them Interceptor and be done with it.
So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.
What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?
There is also an Eldar army box coming with or even before the upcoming Space Marine release according to Darnok
Darnok - Warseer Forum
I can confirm that Space Marines are coming, as well as Dark Angels. Three weeks of SM releases, one for DAs. After the AdMech stuff is done there is an Eldar armybox, and then it's Marines.
I always laugh when people complain about SM "dominance"- implying C:SM hasn't been a solidly average codex throughout most of its existence.
Where was this faux-outrage when IG leaf-blower lists were wiping their asses with C: SM throughout all of 5th, or during the Eldar\Tau\Daemon dominance of 6th?
Niiiccceeee, super pumped for this marine release. Marines and dark Angels back to back? This summer has just dthrown a huge wrench in my army list building, I can't wait to see what I can do at the end of the summer for nova
BlaxicanX wrote: I always laugh when people complain about SM "dominance"- implying C:SM hasn't been a solidly average codex throughout most of its existence.
Where was this faux-outrage when IG leaf-blower lists were wiping their asses with C: SM throughout all of 5th, or during the Eldar\Tau\Daemon dominance of 6th?
Indeed. Even at their best, C:SM are upper Mid-Tier. Eldar have owned the top spot for quite some time and GW, in their infinite wisdom, decided to BUFF them. So yeah, giving Marines an effective way to counter them isn't exactly too much to ask, since there really isn't one as of yet.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.
What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?
Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.
Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.
I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.
Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.
casvalremdeikun wrote: What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).
Maybe they'll let us take squadrons of them. Or maybe they'll give them a small points drop.
Don't see them giving it old interceptor, or some special rule that lets them fire full ballistic skill at any target as long as it is not shaken or stunned.
Maybe they could have two different firing profiles. Or heck, just give them Interceptor and be done with it.
Since there's serious talk about the Rhino Primaris(the new command Rhino) being in the Codex, you would get access to its Servo-Skull Hive which has the "Targeting Data Skull" granting a friendly unit within 6(or 12) inches the ability to fire Snap Shots/Overwatch at their full Ballistic Skill.
casvalremdeikun wrote: What do you suppose the odds are that the Stalker or Hunter are made viable in the new codex? The fact that they are stupidly easy to deal with and pretty bad choices for their slots has to have affected their sales somewhat. Perhaps giving them the option to forego their Skyfire for a turn to shoot at regular BS at ground targets. It is really a shame that they are not very good, because their model is very cool looking (if stupidly expensive when compared to other Rhino+Upgrade Sprue kits).
Maybe they'll let us take squadrons of them. Or maybe they'll give them a small points drop.
Don't see them giving it old interceptor, or some special rule that lets them fire full ballistic skill at any target as long as it is not shaken or stunned.
Maybe they could have two different firing profiles. Or heck, just give them Interceptor and be done with it.
Since there's serious talk about the Rhino Primaris(the new command Rhino) being in the Codex, you would get access to its Servo-Skull Hive which has the "Targeting Data Skull" granting a friendly unit within 6(or 12) inches the ability to fire Snap Shots/Overwatch at their full Ballistic Skill.
Which would be all well and good...if it didn't require two models to do what one should be able to do. The Stalker basically has a Quadgun strapped to its back, there really isn't a good reason why it doesn't have Interceptor.
Interceptor just makes it so a weapon can be fired at the end of the enemy Movement Phase at an enemy unit that arrived from Reserve within range/LOS...at the expense of being unable to fire that weapon next turn.
C:SM have had plenty of dominate times- just not recently. During 4th marines owned the scene with the 5 man las/plas squad with razorback with the same. Space Wolves were released later and could do the trick better, so although SWs got a bad name during that time, they were just doing what SM players had done for several years. Also you could argue that generic SM armies aren't bad currently- the Gravstar and grav bikes are very good, as is the thunderfire cannon and the cheap flier they have- true they dont have their own dedicated Superheavy, but really the Knights are as much "theirs" as anyone elses.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.
What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?
Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.
Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.
I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.
Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.
Ah yes the Vendetta. A wonderful piece of hardware. Sorry, was. Now it is outclassed by just about every other flyer in the game. Also, im not on about Chaos. Im on about vanilla marines that just seem to get everything they want because daddy Kirby knows that little timmy (NO I am not implying all marine players are whiny kids) cant cope having to out think the opponent.
IG gunline? DS Terminators, Droppod Assault, LotD. Close assault force? Devestators, Thunderfire, and Vindicator.
Want to move your heavy weapons? Chapter tactics!
Want MOAR dakka? chapter tactics!
New codex - spanking new Marines in power armour in power armour kit that allows monsters such as the Gravstar.
IG have cool tanks - Terminus Ultra
IG have a tank destroyer that is actually not bad - Vindicator Destroyer that out guns its competitor for no real points increase
IG special orders and tank commanders - I wonder what these new 'command tanks' will do?
IG can squadron vehicles. Hahaha, well we have all seen the rumours.
All in all the SM dominance was only briefly interrupted during 5th ed, and even then only when the IG player brought Valkyries and Vendettas.
DS terminators messing up a guard gunline? Obviously you've never charged 40 bayonets with a commissar and watched 1st company chumps get taken to the curb.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.
What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?
Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.
Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.
I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.
Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.
Ah yes the Vendetta. A wonderful piece of hardware. Sorry, was. Now it is outclassed by just about every other flyer in the game. Also, im not on about Chaos. Im on about vanilla marines that just seem to get everything they want because daddy Kirby knows that little timmy (NO I am not implying all marine players are whiny kids) cant cope having to out think the opponent.
IG gunline? DS Terminators, Droppod Assault, LotD. Close assault force? Devestators, Thunderfire, and Vindicator.
Want to move your heavy weapons? Chapter tactics!
Want MOAR dakka? chapter tactics!
New codex - spanking new Marines in power armour in power armour kit that allows monsters such as the Gravstar.
IG have cool tanks - Terminus Ultra
IG have a tank destroyer that is actually not bad - Vindicator Destroyer that out guns its competitor for no real points increase
IG special orders and tank commanders - I wonder what these new 'command tanks' will do?
IG can squadron vehicles. Hahaha, well we have all seen the rumours.
All in all the SM dominance was only briefly interrupted during 5th ed, and even then only when the IG player brought Valkyries and Vendettas.
All you're doing is compare IG with SM while there is a ton of other armies. I don't want to challenge your comparison (i assume it's correct) - but i'd rather have you consider the entirety of the army lists (something GW also struggles, so no reason to blame you for not doing so). This means:
If the new Codex:Craftworlds is meant to be the new baseline powerlevel-wise, the new Codex:Space Marines should aim to match them. And a new Codex:Astra Militarum should try to match both C:CW and the to-be-released new C:SM in how powerful it should be - just like all other new releases SHOULD.
That's the only way to have a balanced game - look at ALL factions and try to find a good middle ground for ALL of them. You'll never achieve perfect balance, sure, and it might suck for the lists that get updated last (which is simply a good reason for GW to update all lists at the SAME time)
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
Just like the IG Laser Destroyer which had the SM players wailing and whining until FW brought out the Vindicator Destroyer which is like the IG Laser Destroyer but with three times the rate of fire.
What about us in the Imperial Guard? When do we get some love? When does our Deathstrike finally get its STR D buff that it so desperately needs? When do we get a cool new kit that is actually useful? When do our tanks have the nerfs done to them in the new codex (the replacement of Lumbering Behemoth with Heavy) undone?
Did you play during 5th at all? Or even before then? C: Marine dominance over Guard armies are as new as the name 'Astra Militarum' and even then, it's not that bad.
Eldar, Necrons, Guard, Grey Knights dominated in late 5th early 6th. Even after the vendetta nerf, marines couldn't hold a candle until the 6th book dropped.
I'd also like you to provide evidence of marine players whining about the laser destroyer. I'd also like to ask you to stop being such a hypocrite about the wailing and whining.
Go find another thread to cry in. Make it the 'Guard players Whine and Cheese club'. So you can do the former about how you no longer are the latter.
Ah yes the Vendetta. A wonderful piece of hardware. Sorry, was. Now it is outclassed by just about every other flyer in the game. Also, im not on about Chaos. Im on about vanilla marines that just seem to get everything they want because daddy Kirby knows that little timmy (NO I am not implying all marine players are whiny kids) cant cope having to out think the opponent.
IG gunline? DS Terminators, Droppod Assault, LotD. Close assault force? Devestators, Thunderfire, and Vindicator.
Want to move your heavy weapons? Chapter tactics!
Want MOAR dakka? chapter tactics!
New codex - spanking new Marines in power armour in power armour kit that allows monsters such as the Gravstar.
IG have cool tanks - Terminus Ultra
IG have a tank destroyer that is actually not bad - Vindicator Destroyer that out guns its competitor for no real points increase
IG special orders and tank commanders - I wonder what these new 'command tanks' will do?
IG can squadron vehicles. Hahaha, well we have all seen the rumours.
All in all the SM dominance was only briefly interrupted during 5th ed, and even then only when the IG player brought Valkyries and Vendettas.
What in Odins balls are you talking about?
Ive played marines (in various forms) since second and what you are claiming from a model standpoint is only slightly true, from a rules one you haven't a clue, Marines have ALWAYS been mid tier, yes even in the heady days of "rhino rush" as elderp and Truecrons beat them down without so much as a sweat, and god forbid you made a mistake like coming near a nid or ork army with 100pt carnifexs, and choppas repectivly.
Marines have never been top tier in any edition, ever, Space wolves and Grey knights are power armour forces and not Codex marines, they have both been quite strong in repective editions but still not at powerful as the non marine competitors, Tau, Eldar, crons, nids (once upon a time) and orks all effectively beat the stuffing out of marines quite handily.
Surely being able to take extra special pistols isn't going to make regular assault marines THAT much better than say Blood Angels? Plasma pistols were always kind of a terrible option, right?
Jambles wrote: Surely being able to take extra special pistols isn't going to make regular assault marines THAT much better than say Blood Angels? Plasma pistols were always kind of a terrible option, right?
Well. That particular rumour stinks to the high heavens, even if it wasn't from BoLS.
They`ve seen pistols on the sprues (!), but no power sword/combat shield/power fist (!), which they presume are on a separate sergeant sprue (?) and from that they conclude (!) that the rules allow Assault Marines to go all pistols?
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.
I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.
I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.
I once wiped out 30ish IG Guardsmen in one multi Assault on turn 3 with an outflanking 10 model assault squad and kayvaan shrike (from reserves). Turned the tide of the game in one combat - his plasma special weapon teams were chewing through my scouts and tactical marines.. Those were the days....
I never cared whether Raven Guard armies were effective, I just wanted them to be fluffy.
It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.
I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.
I once wiped out 30ish IG Guardsmen in one multi Assault on turn 3 with an outflanking 10 model assault squad and kayvaan shrike (from reserves). Turned the tide of the game in one combat - his plasma special weapon teams were chewing through my scouts and tactical marines.. Those were the days....
I never cared whether Raven Guard armies were effective, I just wanted them to be fluffy.
It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.
I do not see it as a "Chapter Tactics" Rule, but possibly Formation Ability or maybe a Detachment thing.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Give me fleeting infiltrating first turn assaulting Raven Guard assault marines once again and I'll be content.
I'm with you. Raven Guard (and Raptors, to an extent) are the only Space Marine chapter I'm interested in playing, I just love their fluff and lore tactica. I really would love to play a Marine force that's focused on precision alpha strikes rather than Bikes or the like. Raven Guard and their tactical covert ops always sounded great, but they're just not that great compared to the other options in the book.
I once wiped out 30ish IG Guardsmen in one multi Assault on turn 3 with an outflanking 10 model assault squad and kayvaan shrike (from reserves). Turned the tide of the game in one combat - his plasma special weapon teams were chewing through my scouts and tactical marines.. Those were the days....
I never cared whether Raven Guard armies were effective, I just wanted them to be fluffy.
It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.
I do not see it as a "Chapter Tactics" Rule, but possibly Formation Ability or maybe a Detachment thing.
The trouble is with things like that being a detachment thing is that it usually punishes those who don't want characters or those that have made their own chapters from scratch.
General Kroll wrote: The trouble is with things like that being a detachment thing is that it usually punishes those who don't want characters or those that have made their own chapters from scratch.
Which is why I'd favour a return to the Chapter Doctrines thing from the 4th Ed Space Marine Codex (which was before my time - I started with 5th Ed but I do have the 4th book).
BlaxicanX wrote: I always laugh when people complain about SM "dominance"- implying C:SM hasn't been a solidly average codex throughout most of its existence.
Where was this faux-outrage when IG leaf-blower lists were wiping their asses with C: SM throughout all of 5th, or during the Eldar\Tau\Daemon dominance of 6th?
As a Chaos player I'm just annoyed that the trend from 4th onwards has been 'generic' Chaos, flavoured SM. I don't mind new Marine books so much...largely because half the time I'm probably just going to use it for my Chaos because it will have half the options that weren't taken away from us.
I don't have any info as to what the content of the new assault squad and dev box is. (I haven't even heard about a Dev. box although it does make sense that one had been produced. See below(
What I do know is that the assault squad was designed by Jes, it was being produced around about the time of the new Tac. Squad released in 2013. Expect it to feature the new torso design in-line with the other new kits. I heard the rest of the SM kits will slowly but surely be getting redesigned to fit in with the other new kits.
It was an Index Astartes character spotlight article on kayvaan shrine and raven guard guerrilla tactics in white dwarf about 10 years ago that got me into 40k. Until then I'd only played LOTR.
I remember that article they also did Lysander it's what properly got me into 40K.
I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.
Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not
spartiatis wrote: I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.
Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not
AU site still shows the shoulder pads as available, assault squad no longer available though.
spartiatis wrote: I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.
Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not
AU site still shows the shoulder pads as available, assault squad no longer available though.
spartiatis wrote: I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.
Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not
Here in the US, Thunderfire Cannon got repackaged a few months back(the plain black box that all the new releases have gotten) and is stocked on the shelves for the local GW.
spartiatis wrote: I just checked games workshop's site and noticed that along with the assault squad, the ultramarines shoulder pads are also under the ''sold out - no longer available'' status.
Also, probably a mistake, the whirlwind is noted as webstore exclusive and the thunderfire cannon is not
The shoulder pads are a waste of time -- they are the old, tiny size ones, and won't match with any of the current shoulder pads.
kb305 wrote: fark those are some butt ugly smurf tanks on page 1.
that dandy boy on the right is about to sprinkle fairy dust from his gold rod from his excelsior tank.
Then.. paint them another color
I dig the command tanks... will definitely purchase a kit, but I'm not so sure I'll ever play it. It seems points-pricey :( But I guess we'll see in conjunction with everything else in the codex
SharkoutofWata wrote: May 30th? Is that the announcement or is that the release?? Did I miss the rumor correction that said its more than two weeks earlier than projected?
Preorders will go live May 30th at 1pm EDT/11am PDT here in the US. The rest of the world will have had their preorders up for almost a full day at that point, so you can take a good look at what is up for preorder by switching your flag on the GW site.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
It's just as possible that they've sold out of ASM but there's still Devastator stock on hand, or because of the release pattern the Devastators are a week or two further away from the update.
Azreal13 wrote: It's just as possible that they've sold out of ASM but there's still Devastator stock on hand, or because of the release pattern the Devastators are a week or two further away from the update.
Don't read too much just into that yet.
Or maybe the Devastators were going to be a Dark Angels kit!
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
The real reason is summed up by a single keystroke: $
Vanilla marines are traditionally the biggest selling/played faction so only once in the last 5 editions did marines not get a new book within a year of a new edition hitting. With GW's stealing and adapting the hardcore tourny tactic of MSU (minimum sellable unit) over the past two years, I'm completely NOT shocked that they're redoing marines on the heels of replacing 2 year old eldar and 1 year old Knight books. There simply is no reliable product life cycle anymore for GW books and that lack of value has definitely affected my purchase habits. I grudgingly bought the hardcovers (that I don't like... I prefer the smaller B&W softcovers) because for the first time since 3rd edition everyone would theoretically be on the same footing and I feel like I got suckered into spending $400 to "update" my armies with books that have now apparently have an unacceptably low IMO life cycle.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
To be fair, Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
Admittedly though, the 6th ed Vanilla Codex had me seriously thinking about taking to plunge into a building a Templars army, especially after the intertubes decried the Templars as even worse off than their old as dirt 4th ed codex!
I'm definitely curious to see what, if anything changes for the Templars in the new codex... I loved the idea of a bike mounted Marshal w/Burning sword, leading a unit of power lance-armed 'knights' from the current codex!
If a similar option remains, I might just go and put my Chaos on hold for some Templars, as Chaos Marines especially are just garbage looking right now and have next to no upgrade options when compared to everyone else atm...
Experiment 626 wrote: Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
You see, Experiment 626, in 40k lore the Imperium exists in a dark age of technological decline. Therefore it's only natural that Space Marines should have a wide variety of powerful weapons available, while their traitor brethren from the golden age have managed to lose or misplace nearly everything that isn't a boltgun... wait a minute...
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
To be fair, Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
Admittedly though, the 6th ed Vanilla Codex had me seriously thinking about taking to plunge into a building a Templars army, especially after the intertubes decried the Templars as even worse off than their old as dirt 4th ed codex!
I'm definitely curious to see what, if anything changes for the Templars in the new codex... I loved the idea of a bike mounted Marshal w/Burning sword, leading a unit of power lance-armed 'knights' from the current codex!
If a similar option remains, I might just go and put my Chaos on hold for some Templars, as Chaos Marines especially are just garbage looking right now and have next to no upgrade options when compared to everyone else atm...
I thought it was reported that Templars were being dropped from the vanilla codex but would get their own at a later date. Personally, I hope they keep them in the vanilla codex. But it is GW....
Experiment 626 wrote: Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
You see, Experiment 626, in 40k lore the Imperium exists in a dark age of technological decline. Therefore it's only natural that Space Marines should have a wide variety of powerful weapons available, while their traitor brethren from the golden age have managed to lose or misplace nearly everything that isn't a boltgun... wait a minute...
I still enjoy how every single time a Loyalist Chapter falls to Chaos, they're obviously required to return every last piece of their technology back to the nearest Forgeworld before making for the Eye of Terror...
It's so nice knowing how considerate and honourable those Chaos servants really are!
Nah. Salamanders are just one of the prettier armies. The green and black with scales and flame is a very eye catching paint scheme. I'm genuinely surprised they aren't featured more often because of it.
SharkoutofWata wrote:Nah. Salamanders are just one of the prettier armies. The green and black with scales and flame is a very eye catching paint scheme. I'm genuinely surprised they aren't featured more often because of it.
They have a lot of potential for some new awesome fluff....but that would involve GW advancing the timeline more than a few days.
Is that music from the Space Marine game? It sounds familiar.
It is. GW's videos invariably use music from Space Marine, the Ultramarines movie, the Dawn of War games, or Warhammer Online. Looking forward to Warhammer: Total War since it'll give them some new music to work with
Experiment 626 wrote: Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
You see, Experiment 626, in 40k lore the Imperium exists in a dark age of technological decline. Therefore it's only natural that Space Marines should have a wide variety of powerful weapons available, while their traitor brethren from the golden age have managed to lose or misplace nearly everything that isn't a boltgun... wait a minute...
I still enjoy how every single time a Loyalist Chapter falls to Chaos, they're obviously required to return every last piece of their technology back to the nearest Forgeworld before making for the Eye of Terror...
It's so nice knowing how considerate and honourable those Chaos servants really are!
You may find it amusing, but have you any idea how much the deposit is on an entire chapters worth if grav equipment...
Experiment 626 wrote: Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
You see, Experiment 626, in 40k lore the Imperium exists in a dark age of technological decline. Therefore it's only natural that Space Marines should have a wide variety of powerful weapons available, while their traitor brethren from the golden age have managed to lose or misplace nearly everything that isn't a boltgun... wait a minute...
I still enjoy how every single time a Loyalist Chapter falls to Chaos, they're obviously required to return every last piece of their technology back to the nearest Forgeworld before making for the Eye of Terror...
It's so nice knowing how considerate and honourable those Chaos servants really are!
Allies are a thing. You can throw in fast Daemons for little cost to a Loyalist force. You just gotta spike them up is all.
Granted you won't have access to double Specials in a Tactical squad, but that might be fixed.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Nah. Salamanders are just one of the prettier armies. The green and black with scales and flame is a very eye catching paint scheme. I'm genuinely surprised they aren't featured more often because of it.
really ? i like their fluff and the reptile look but always thought the flames were extremely cheesy and ugly
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
To be fair, Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
Beacause... money?
Chaos never sold as well as the loyalists.
Besides, Chaos players can't whine. Eldar are still sporting Finecast Aspect Warriors.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
To be fair, Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
Beacause... money?
Chaos never sold as well as the loyalists.
Besides, Chaos players can't whine. Eldar are still sporting Finecast Aspect Warriors.
That's one of those Catch22s though. You don't support a model range, they won't sell well. I wonder how Dark Eldar sales turned out after their first update in 15years?
And lets not forget that all the cult marines are still hybrid kits, obliterators are tied with razorgore for worst miniature of all time, etc. But hey, if CSM get an Eldar level update I'm sure they wouldn't complain.
Experiment 626 wrote: Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
You see, Experiment 626, in 40k lore the Imperium exists in a dark age of technological decline. Therefore it's only natural that Space Marines should have a wide variety of powerful weapons available, while their traitor brethren from the golden age have managed to lose or misplace nearly everything that isn't a boltgun... wait a minute...
"What's that, battle-brother?"
"This? Oh...oh this is nothing. We've always had these. Since the heresy. Honest. Old hat."
"Wha-wait, I've never seen one of those. MY chapter doesn't have any of those!"
"Right...well...that's because on account of they're so super duper rare, so it's understandable if, oh...say...the Blood Angels Space Wolves Grey Knights Dark Angels and Chaos Traitors probably wouldn't have any, because they're like extra super rare. Like, they probably only had, like, one, and they dropped it in a hole or something."
"Rare? You've got one strapped to one in every three of your bikes, you bloody liar! And those blokes over there are carrying one each, in fact, what the HELL is that they're wearing? Did you breed your Dreadnoughts with your Terminators, what heresy is this?"
"Oh, right....those...we've all got those. You get ten free with each purchase of Robot Girlyman's Codex Astartes (tm). Only five easy payments of 39,999."
"Hey! Battle brother get back here, what the hell! This is obviously both heresy and favoritism and we will not have-are you listening to me?"
"Sorry, that's the Dish Network guy at the door, we're going to install Xfinity in our Rhinos and Land Rai-I mean, oh, looks like we've dug up something we've all totally had since the heresy!"
Experiment 626 wrote: Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
You see, Experiment 626, in 40k lore the Imperium exists in a dark age of technological decline. Therefore it's only natural that Space Marines should have a wide variety of powerful weapons available, while their traitor brethren from the golden age have managed to lose or misplace nearly everything that isn't a boltgun... wait a minute...
"What's that, battle-brother?"
"This? Oh...oh this is nothing. We've always had these. Since the heresy. Honest. Old hat."
"Wha-wait, I've never seen one of those. MY chapter doesn't have any of those!"
"Right...well...that's because on account of they're so super duper rare, so it's understandable if, oh...say...the Blood Angels Space Wolves Grey Knights Dark Angels and Chaos Traitors probably wouldn't have any, because they're like extra super rare. Like, they probably only had, like, one, and they dropped it in a hole or something."
"Rare? You've got one strapped to one in every three of your bikes, you bloody liar! And those blokes over there are carrying one each, in fact, what the HELL is that they're wearing? Did you breed your Dreadnoughts with your Terminators, what heresy is this?"
"Oh, right....those...we've all got those. You get ten free with each purchase of Robot Girlyman's Codex Astartes (tm). Only five easy payments of 39,999."
"Hey! Battle brother get back here, what the hell! This is obviously both heresy and favoritism and we will not have-are you listening to me?"
"Sorry, that's the Dish Network guy at the door, we're going to install Xfinity in our Rhinos and Land Rai-I mean, oh, looks like we've dug up something we've all totally had since the heresy!"
I don't field Centurions period, because they're diametrically opposed to the tactical doctrines laid down by my Primarch, Corvus Corax. After all, its hard to strike fast from the shadows and then withdraw when you're wearing a big slow and clunky exo suit.
It wouldn't surprise me if those upgrades weren't just shoulderpad packs or something; Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels already have bespoke kits of their dudes.
E: Besides, aren't the metal Ultramarines shoulderpads no longer available?
We're still seeing codex updates from Chapterhouse fallout, and probably will for the rest of the year and next year (whenever they get to fantasy). Frankly, I would expect codex turnover to be high until everything is updated to 7th...although the SOB are just the most ignored army of 40k that GW doesn't seem to know what to do with, other than continue to sell warehouse stock.
So I predict we'll see at least one finecast replacement. I don't recall offhand what is finecast in the space marine lineup, but there is some.
I'm sure we'll see a bit of repackaging as well, moving to 32mm bases and possibly new instruction sheets.
I have no idea what will go on with the different chapter supplement books though.
Schlyne wrote: Frankly, I would expect codex turnover to be high until everything is updated to 7th
I remember us saying that during 6th. Then it was until everyone is in hardback. This high speed book turnover won't stop imo. It also parralels TSR's behaviour in their death spiral.
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
To be fair, Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
Beacause... money?
Chaos never sold as well as the loyalists.
Besides, Chaos players can't whine. Eldar are still sporting Finecast Aspect Warriors.
Other than a few kits, Chaos are still using older models than the current Falicast Aspects. And one reason they don't sell as well as loyalists is that since 3.5, Chaos has been a gakky, weak army. Seeing as a good majority of the players are WAAC, why take a "fail" army like Chaos. And it's ironic because Chaos is supposed to represent the biggest threat to mankind, yet they can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Hopefully, someday, they'll get a proper codex.
warboss wrote: The real reason is summed up by a single keystroke: $
That is literally two keystrokes
I see you don't have a Citadel Fineboard.
I personally hope the new Dev rumour is true and we get Devs with Grav Cannons. I want to see how GW gets around Salvo for them (seriously the rule might as well not even exist when 80% of the time it's on something relentless).
master of ordinance wrote: So, something challenges the Space marine players dominance (Eldar), Space marine players whine and wail, GW brings out a whole new codex just to buff them still further.
That's less to do with Marine players 'whining' and far more to do with the Marine codex almost always being one of the first to be redone when a new edition is released...
To be fair, Chaos Marine players have the right to continue to whine and wail, especially since they're still using the exact same guns they've had since 3rd edition... (meanwhile, Loyalists have gotten a veritable hoard of new toys for their grunts, because... "Reasons")
Beacause... money?
Chaos never sold as well as the loyalists.
Besides, Chaos players can't whine. Eldar are still sporting Finecast Aspect Warriors.
I disagree, sir. The plastic Berserkers came out when I still played the game, and that was 1998 I think because I remember being hyped that they were out (the only other plastics being the super crappy 2nd edition plastics) and immediately rushing to my FLGS to buy a box. The current CSM kit came out just as I left the game, so around 2002 I think?
And yes, Chaos never sold as well because they've always been the caricature, "Next time, Gadget! Next time!" sort of cartoony villain and not what they were intended to be, which was a lingering reminder of the past that the Imperium wishes would stay buried in the footnotes of history. Remember, Chaos is the only force except maybe Tyranids that gets the Imperium to wipe out an entire world, sterilize and/or kill and/or send to concentration camps everyone on that world just in case they got tainted and also so they can't talk about the fact that Chaos is real.
Chaos is supposed to be the ever-present big bad of the setting, and ever since 3.5 (barring maybe 2nd edition) they've been pretty much jokes that pose no real threat. Chaos is supposed to be Unicron, not Cobra Commander.
Chaos is supposed to be the ever-present big bad of the setting, and ever since 3.5 (barring maybe 2nd edition) they've been pretty much jokes that pose no real threat. Chaos is supposed to be Unicron, not Cobra Commander.
LOL. Yeah, this. Why Chaos is always so fracking crappy weak I will never understand. Other than a few very limited builds, they have no depth, when they are supposed to be wreaking havoc on all the universe. How the hell did they ever not just get annihilated by the Eldar? The way it's set up, a Craftworld could fly blindly into the Eye of the Storm and kill all the denizens of Chaos
They also seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to models; once in a while they get a fantastic model like the Bloodthirster, but most of the time, they get jack. Part of the reason I gave up Chaos a long, long time ago, and filled that spot with Dark Eldar. Not a particularly strong faction either, but at least they get some model love.
While I really like the Khorne Daemonkin book from a gameplay perspective (One of the best executions of thematic rules actually making a solid transition) the model showcases really drive home what an outdated mismatched design philosophy Chaos finds itself in.
On topic while my head is spinning from the turnover of these books I am curious to see how they handle their Chapter Tactics/Combi-Detachment and Formations.
Eldarain wrote: While I really like the Khorne Daemonkin book from a gameplay perspective (One of the best executions of thematic rules actually making a solid transition) the model showcases really drive home what an outdated mismatched design philosophy Chaos finds itself in.
On topic while my head is spinning from the turnover of these books I am curious to see how they handle their Chapter Tactics/Combi-Detachment and Formations.
Totally agree with you. Khorne Daemonkin Codex is fantastic. From a "fun" perspective. It's still fairly underpowered compared to almost every other book. But, the art and background make it one of my favorite books. Pity that it's still only on par with CSM.
Eldarain wrote: While I really like the Khorne Daemonkin book from a gameplay perspective (One of the best executions of thematic rules actually making a solid transition) the model showcases really drive home what an outdated mismatched design philosophy Chaos finds itself in.
Agreed, the only way to do Chaos justice (IMO) is to essentially build your own kits with third party bits and models and to pull bits from other kits, which, as someone whose current army project is to do exactly that, is bloody hard work.
Ohhhhhh chapter specific sprues, great way to limit the need for individual kits. I like it!!! Malik means if you already got a. Inch you can just buy the upgrade sprues
Upgrade sprues will likely be splash then direct only. They look clampack sized, and probably $20 or so. Just a guess.
Really hoping the other chapters will get upgrades, and not just UM (who do need it) and DA (who really didn't). SW and BA have tons of parts, so I'm not a fan of upgrade sprues for them.
An IH upgrade sprue would have me drooling...
Wow. Compared to the old Dark Angels upgrade sprue the new one is a serious letdown. Three heads, a breastplate, an icon, some random greeble and ten shoulderpads? Come on, you could make an entire squad of robed power-armored dudes out of the old one!
Yeah, speaking of that, why do the BAs/DAs/SWs even need upgrade sprues? Their respective Chapter-specific kits (two, in the case of the BA's) cover pretty much all the iconography and fancy doo-dads that you could ever want.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait... that's it? A sword, a dagger, a torso, some heads and 10 shoulder pads? You must be joking.
Where are the chapter-specific Terminator/Scout/Centurion parts?
Maybe/hopefully there is a separate vehicle icons pack that could include stuff for larger models. I agree, it is pretty disappointing that there is not a Terminator shoulder pad to be found. Then again, nobody buys Terminators anymore since they suck. The PA shoulders are much more versatile, being useful for Tacticals/Sternguard/Vanguard/Command/Devastators/Assaults. Terminator shoulder are useful for...Terminators.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: Wow. Compared to the old Dark Angels upgrade sprue the new one is a serious letdown. Three heads, a breastplate, an icon, some random greeble and ten shoulderpads? Come on, you could make an entire squad of robed power-armored dudes out of the old one!
The Old DA sprue was not really an "upgrade" sprue, it was a full kit with some extra parts for a Terminator. The old BT upgrade sprue is superior in content to these new ones though.
Don't see why DA, SW, and BA need them, they have their own kits.
Ultramarines benefit a lot, as would some of the other Vanilla chapters- Raven Guard, Iron Hands (Bionics!) White Scars, Salamanders. Fists need plastic upgrade, but got some finecast versions not too long ago. And Templars would be much better suited with a plastic Emperor's Champion and a Crusader squad kit with 5 PA and 5 CA models than just an upgrade sprue.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: Wow. Compared to the old Dark Angels upgrade sprue the new one is a serious letdown. Three heads, a breastplate, an icon, some random greeble and ten shoulderpads? Come on, you could make an entire squad of robed power-armored dudes out of the old one!
The Old DA sprue was not really an "upgrade" sprue, it was a full kit with some extra parts for a Terminator. The old BT upgrade sprue is superior in content to these new ones though.
Don't see why DA, SW, and BA need them, they have their own kits.
Ultramarines benefit a lot, as would some of the other Vanilla chapters- Raven Guard, Iron Hands (Bionics!) White Scars, Salamanders. Fists need plastic upgrade, but got some finecast versions not too long ago. And Templars would be much better suited with a plastic Emperor's Champion and a Crusader squad kit with 5 PA and 5 CA models than just an upgrade sprue.
I agree completely. I would have to think if these upgrade kits sell well (which I think they will) we will see more chapters in the future. Also if the BT are getting their own codex I would have to think they would get their own upgrade sprue at that time along with a plastic hq. The beauty of the new weekly releases is they could throw a plastic character or 2 at us from time to time in between codex releases.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, speaking of that, why do the BAs/DAs/SWs even need upgrade sprues? Their respective Chapter-specific kits (two, in the case of the BA's) cover pretty much all the iconography and fancy doo-dads that you could ever want.
Expect those to go OOP because they're a good deal.
At least the idea of Chapter-specific upgrade sets is a good one. I will be pleased if they make a decent Salamanders sprue. This also suits my Chaos Marines well because, long story short, they dress up in all kinds of iconography that isn't theirs.
I just make green stuff molds of the FW door icons. I don't see the point of a vheclie upgrade kit since FW already dose all "main" chapters already. Or will once they are featured in a HH book since their 30k and 40k iconography is the same.*Shrugs*
Lockark wrote: I just make green stuff molds of the FW door icons. I don't see the point of a vheclie upgrade kit since FW already dose all "main" chapters already. Or will once they are featured in a HH book since their 30k and 40k iconography is the same.*Shrugs*
They got rid of most of those though. Only for them to reissue them when their chapter comes out for HH I want my White Scars doors
That sprue looks about the size of a plastic blister sprue. Suspect they wanted to bring the size down to fit in a blister instead of a box. So it will probably cost as much as the other current SM blisters. $30 is my guess based off the Sanguinary Priest.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait... that's it? A sword, a dagger, a torso, some heads and 10 shoulder pads? You must be joking.
Where are the chapter-specific Terminator/Scout/Centurion parts?
It says that it's "The Ultramarines Upgrades Frame" which I assume means it will be something like a $15 sprue sold separately specifically for Ultramarines. I doubt it will be in the Command box (why shove it down the throats of people who want to play salamanders or some other chapter, right?). More likely, there will be upgrades frames for the more popular chapters. Good money, as those shoulder pads and accessory pieces are dead easy to make.
A way better deal is a box like Death Company, which "looks" expensive, but there are so many parts in it that can be used for other Blood Angels models.
Frozen Ocean wrote: At least the idea of Chapter-specific upgrade sets is a good one. I will be pleased if they make a decent Salamanders sprue. This also suits my Chaos Marines well because, long story short, they dress up in all kinds of iconography that isn't theirs.
If it's as small as that UM sprue then I don't think I'd call it decent. I'd want shoulder pads, helmets, torsos, lots of drake skin, several flamers/meltas with dragon maws as the muzzles, lots of hammers, tons of iconography for vehicles...you wouldn't be able to fit everything I'd want on a single clampack sprue, it would have to be a full kit like the BAtac squad.
I don't want to know how much the clampacks will be, either. $20 is about as cheap as they get anymore and that's massively overpriced for a single tiny sprue of parts.
The upgrade kits will probably be about the size of one of the sprues from the Sniper Scout squad. It has about the same number of bits as one of those. Look for about $10-$15 USD for one of the kits. Still, they actually look pretty cool. I may pick up a BA upgrade sprue or two. I am a little pissed since I just bought some of the Failcast shoulder pads from GW. They look nice, but are not sized the same as the regular shoulder pads. Still, would like to use the ten chapter specific shoulder pads from the upgrade kit for my Assault Squads that I need to build. If they make IF, I will buy TONS and replace all of the shoulder pads on my existing models with them.
Frozen Ocean wrote: At least the idea of Chapter-specific upgrade sets is a good one. I will be pleased if they make a decent Salamanders sprue. This also suits my Chaos Marines well because, long story short, they dress up in all kinds of iconography that isn't theirs.
If it's as small as that UM sprue then I don't think I'd call it decent. I'd want shoulder pads, helmets, torsos, lots of drake skin, several flamers/meltas with dragon maws as the muzzles, lots of hammers, tons of iconography for vehicles...you wouldn't be able to fit everything I'd want on a single clampack sprue, it would have to be a full kit like the BAtac squad.
I don't want to know how much the clampacks will be, either. $20 is about as cheap as they get anymore and that's massively overpriced for a single tiny sprue of parts.
Yes and no. I think you are describing above is comparing these new upgrade kits to the BT upgrade box that they don't come close to competing with. I believe these sets are meant to be along the lines of the Crimson Fist upgrade set where you get 5 backpacks, 5 shoulder pads, 3 heads and a power fist for $14.75 so based on the price increases they have been doing as products switch over from finecast to plastic I think $20 would be right in line with their current pricing model.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, speaking of that, why do the BAs/DAs/SWs even need upgrade sprues? Their respective Chapter-specific kits (two, in the case of the BA's) cover pretty much all the iconography and fancy doo-dads that you could ever want.
Because this way they can drop the Chapter-specific boxes, and just range the generic boxes in store and the upgrade frames through Direct Only, would be my guess.
If it's as small as that UM sprue then I don't think I'd call it decent. I'd want shoulder pads, helmets, torsos, lots of drake skin, several flamers/meltas with dragon maws as the muzzles, lots of hammers, tons of iconography for vehicles...you wouldn't be able to fit everything I'd want on a single clampack sprue, it would have to be a full kit like the BAtac squad.
I don't want to know how much the clampacks will be, either. $20 is about as cheap as they get anymore and that's massively overpriced for a single tiny sprue of parts.
Agreed, this is the way to go. A full kit, with custom front torsos, artificed legs, and the whole nine yards. If they did that, they might convince me to start my ultramarines back up. Which is crazy, because I'd go and buy more dreadnoughts, land speeders, pods, land raiders, storm ravens and all the other stuff I never play, but "need" to complete the army.
As it is, I would rather use Blood Angels parts and play them as vanilla, as IMO this is the most cost efficient + predttiest way to get parts for a specific chapter. Dark Angels, too, but BATac and DC boxes have too much good stuff to pass up. Plus, the DA bikes are easy to modify to feel Blood Angels
Notice that they included the dagger and a Chapter Champion helm. Basically, they now are having a parts-built Honour Guard. I hope they just fuse the Command Squad and Honour Guard together and let you run a Command Squad with a Chapter Master.
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MajorWesJanson wrote: aracerssx on warseer mentioned "around 10€/11$ price for upgrade kits"
Well there you go. That isn't that bad at all for one sprue of parts. It is cheaper overall than their current Failcast shoulder pads, and this includes more parts.
Thats even better. Also making complete kits for a chapter wouldn't make sense from Gw's pov. They would compete with their own basic tac squad. This way you buy the tac squad and the upgrade sprue.
At 11 dollars each that is perfectly reasonable, especially when you consider that for FW it was 15+ and it was just for a shoulder pad.
I just hope they release a few of these so I can upgrade all my deathwatch guys with the new kits as I re-make my army(please please please let there be a new DW upgrade sprue like this, I want shoulder pads that actually go on the left arm without looking stupid)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, speaking of that, why do the BAs/DAs/SWs even need upgrade sprues? Their respective Chapter-specific kits (two, in the case of the BA's) cover pretty much all the iconography and fancy doo-dads that you could ever want.
Because this way they can drop the Chapter-specific boxes, and just range the generic boxes in store and the upgrade frames through Direct Only, would be my guess.
I wont try to second guess GW, but the BA tactical kit feel to recent to put down.
All in all, this is a really strange release IMO (supporting already existing chapter specific, and at the same time ignoring chaos).
Years ago, back when I worked for GW, they talked about each chapter getting an upgrade kit, like the BT/DA ones.
A couple years after I left, they issued the BA and new GH boxed sets, which was a surprise...it was a turn around from what we were told they were doing. The idea was that a store could save shelf space by only stocking vanilla squads, and players could easily upgrade by getting the upgrade kits. Chapter specific boxed sets did the opposite...they took up shelf space...
I'm wondering if these are simply being made from old molds made years ago for the project, as a way to generate cash?
Mymearan wrote: How are the current Imperial/Crimson Fist upgrade packs from GW? Are the shoulder pads the correct size?
Yes. They were resculpted in 5th and are the right size for modern models. I've used a bunch of them. I don't know why they're the only ones that got that treatment though.
Kirasu wrote: 11$ for a small sprue? Hm.. GW really is following EA's version of DLCs but for miniature games.
Unsure why BA and SW need one as we have our own boxes. Iron Hands would sell a lot better! (But not like GW knows what their customers want)
The BA ones exist because of the new ASM kit and they want to entice us into buying it. Too bad ASM are crap compared to many other FA units (Bikes especially). But, now we can buy a box of bikes or two and use the BA iconography on them.
As it stands, I am going to buy at least one of the BA upgrade kits, if not two or three. If they make an IF/CF kit, I will buy no less than four of them.
Kirasu wrote: 11$ for a small sprue? Hm.. GW really is following EA's version of DLCs but for miniature games.
Unsure why BA and SW need one as we have our own boxes. Iron Hands would sell a lot better! (But not like GW knows what their customers want)
The BA ones exist because of the new ASM kit and they want to entice us into buying it. Too bad ASM are crap compared to many other FA units (Bikes especially). But, now we can buy a box of bikes or two and use the BA iconography on them.
Blood angels already have the tactical squad or DC box. I just put together a ton of BA models and never needed an "upgrade" sprue because those two boxes have more bits than you need for multiple units.
Kirasu wrote: 11$ for a small sprue? Hm.. GW really is following EA's version of DLCs but for miniature games.
Unsure why BA and SW need one as we have our own boxes. Iron Hands would sell a lot better! (But not like GW knows what their customers want)
The BA ones exist because of the new ASM kit and they want to entice us into buying it. Too bad ASM are crap compared to many other FA units (Bikes especially). But, now we can buy a box of bikes or two and use the BA iconography on them.
Blood angels already have the tactical squad or DC box. I just put together a ton of BA models and never needed an "upgrade" sprue because those two boxes have more bits than you need for multiple units.
And now people have the option of making models without having those kits. I fail to see how having more ways of doing something is a bad thing. I really hope they make these kits for all of the First Founding Chapters. I get the feeling the Iron Hands, Raven Guard, White Scars, and Imperial Fists will not see them though. And that is the crappy part. The SW should not be getting them, that is for sure, since they have exclusive kits for EVERYTHING, unlike BA and DA.
This would have been the perfect opportunity to give Iron Hands some cybernetic parts, White Scars some ponytailed heads, etc. We will probably be getting an muscled chest armor piece for Blood Angels, some hooded heads for Dark Angels (I will admit, the pictured chest armor piece does look pretty awesome), Space Wolves will probably get some Mohawks and beards and wolf tails, and we have seen all of the UM one. I am all for more options on how to make stuff, but they could have done some of the other chapters too(much sadness about no IF yet). Hopefully the CSM will see similar upgrade kits at some point too.
Kirasu wrote: 11$ for a small sprue? Hm.. GW really is following EA's version of DLCs but for miniature games.
Unsure why BA and SW need one as we have our own boxes. Iron Hands would sell a lot better! (But not like GW knows what their customers want)
The BA ones exist because of the new ASM kit and they want to entice us into buying it. Too bad ASM are crap compared to many other FA units (Bikes especially). But, now we can buy a box of bikes or two and use the BA iconography on them.
Blood angels already have the tactical squad or DC box. I just put together a ton of BA models and never needed an "upgrade" sprue because those two boxes have more bits than you need for multiple units.
And now people have the option of making models without having those kits. I fail to see how having more ways of doing something is a bad thing. I really hope they make these kits for all of the First Founding Chapters. I get the feeling the Iron Hands, Raven Guard, White Scars, and Imperial Fists will not see them though. And that is the crappy part. The SW should not be getting them, that is for sure, since they have exclusive kits for EVERYTHING, unlike BA and DA.
This would have been the perfect opportunity to give Iron Hands some cybernetic parts, White Scars some ponytailed heads, etc. We will probably be getting an muscled chest armor piece for Blood Angels, some hooded heads for Dark Angels (I will admit, the pictured chest armor piece does look pretty awesome), Space Wolves will probably get some Mohawks and beards and wolf tails, and we have seen all of the UM one. I am all for more options on how to make stuff, but they could have done some of the other chapters too(much sadness about no IF yet). Hopefully the CSM will see similar upgrade kits at some point too.
You responded to my comment and also answered my next comment.. Yes, it's an option but as you state, the other chapters may NOT be getting them. It would have been a much better use of resources to NOT do DA/BA/SW if the amount of new sprues is limited.
Awesome, BA can get more options for stuff they already have options for yet other chapters still have 0 options.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, BA can get more options for stuff they already have options for yet other chapters still have 0 options.
And this is where we are in total agreement. They should have done the other chapters first. Definitely the ones in the C:SM, at least the First Founding Chapters (and Black Templars). SW shouldn't even exist, since there is basically no place that people will be using them since SW have all of their own kits. BA and DA could have come later. DA already have/had an upgrade sprue.
It's also disappointing because it really is a very good idea, but (at least from what we've seen so far) rather poorly executed. Same as usual for GW, then.
I feel like the limited options are due to the sheer amount of space given entirely to pauldrons. Still, better some than none, and maybe they'll release more upgrade sprues for the same Chapters (e.g. Ultramarine Upgrade Sprue 2) if these do well.
What it does is put up the price of five men again, with the cost of the ASM and then the upgrade sprue.
As a BA player, I always bought one vanilla ASM box and one DC box when making a squad. 10 BA ASM result, and still have BA bits left over. I can't see the upgrade sprue changing that.
I would have thought Fists, White Scars or some of the other neglected chapters should have seen them first.
NoggintheNog wrote: What it does is put up the price of five men again, with the cost of the ASM and then the upgrade sprue.
As a BA player, I always bought one vanilla ASM box and one DC box when making a squad. 10 BA ASM result, and still have BA bits left over. I can't see the upgrade sprue changing that.
I would have thought Fists, White Scars or some of the other neglected chapters should have seen them first.
For BA, you are actually better off buying DC and Tactical, and skipping ASM. The DC boxes come with way more than enough bits of jump pack stuff, heads, and shoulder pads, plus weapons that can be easily converted. Plus the BA boltguns are easier to deal with than the Tactical boltguns, so you can use them to finish up your tacs
The only thing you end up short on is special weapons, which you can fix by either kitbashing them (I wrote a little guide on making Meltaguns out of bolters and DC infernus pistols), or just buying the 5-packs.
I just love the BA tactical box... so much bits goodness in it.
Mymearan wrote: How are the current Imperial/Crimson Fist upgrade packs from GW? Are the shoulder pads the correct size?
Yes. They were resculpted in 5th and are the right size for modern models. I've used a bunch of them. I don't know why they're the only ones that got that treatment though.
NoggintheNog wrote: What it does is put up the price of five men again, with the cost of the ASM and then the upgrade sprue.
As a BA player, I always bought one vanilla ASM box and one DC box when making a squad. 10 BA ASM result, and still have BA bits left over. I can't see the upgrade sprue changing that.
I would have thought Fists, White Scars or some of the other neglected chapters should have seen them first.
Not sure why you even buy ASM for BA. They're the same price I think and ASM are exponentially worse as a kit.
NoggintheNog wrote: What it does is put up the price of five men again, with the cost of the ASM and then the upgrade sprue.
As a BA player, I always bought one vanilla ASM box and one DC box when making a squad. 10 BA ASM result, and still have BA bits left over. I can't see the upgrade sprue changing that.
I would have thought Fists, White Scars or some of the other neglected chapters should have seen them first.
Not sure why you even buy ASM for BA. They're the same price I think and ASM are exponentially worse as a kit.
...because I am an idiot :( I should have just bought bikes. Much more useful in game.
Think so. Can't imagine what else they'd be. Look great, in my opinion, be interesting to see where the price goes (and they only ever go up).
Upgrade sprues are great in principle but looking at that pic of the ultramarines one, there's not really enough there to get excited about IMO.
I guess this is a big part of why we're getting a new codex now - so they can cynically buff ASMs and sell loads of these kits, like how they removed ASM from the Blood Angels troops slot to try and get everyone to buy tacticals?
Kosake wrote: The assault kit looks pretty bland to me. Aren't those just regular marines with a jump pack and a rock to stand on..? Meh.
The differences are subtle but the walking/running legs are nice for doing squads where they aren't all doing the turkish lavatory position. And it might just be bad compression on the image but the two guys on the right look like they've got slightly different helms?
NoggintheNog wrote: What it does is put up the price of five men again, with the cost of the ASM and then the upgrade sprue.
As a BA player, I always bought one vanilla ASM box and one DC box when making a squad. 10 BA ASM result, and still have BA bits left over. I can't see the upgrade sprue changing that.
I would have thought Fists, White Scars or some of the other neglected chapters should have seen them first.
Not sure why you even buy ASM for BA. They're the same price I think and ASM are exponentially worse as a kit.
Variety and a little more subtle look. I spend more time on hobby than I do playing these days, so I like to construct units that look as i want, I find a mix of the two gives 6 different leg poses and allows the squad overall to be noticably different.
I do agree, the DC box is vastly superior to the old ASM box though.
NoggintheNog wrote: What it does is put up the price of five men again, with the cost of the ASM and then the upgrade sprue.
As a BA player, I always bought one vanilla ASM box and one DC box when making a squad. 10 BA ASM result, and still have BA bits left over. I can't see the upgrade sprue changing that.
I would have thought Fists, White Scars or some of the other neglected chapters should have seen them first.
Not sure why you even buy ASM for BA. They're the same price I think and ASM are exponentially worse as a kit.
Variety and a little more subtle look. I spend more time on hobby than I do playing these days, so I like to construct units that look as i want, I find a mix of the two gives 6 different leg poses and allows the squad overall to be noticably different.
I do agree, the DC box is vastly superior to the old ASM box though.
I've always done this too - using pure death company for blood angels would look ridiculous, the intention was always to get a box or two and use all the spares to do up the rest of the army.
Kosake wrote: The assault kit looks pretty bland to me. Aren't those just regular marines with a jump pack and a rock to stand on..? Meh.
The differences are subtle but the walking/running legs are nice for doing squads where they aren't all doing the turkish lavatory position. And it might just be bad compression on the image but the two guys on the right look like they've got slightly different helms?
What would you change?
I've just looked at the last Assault Marines and they allready have similar leg positioning. Maybe a bit less dynamic but not the typical latrine despoiler stance. It's not what I'd change, it's just that overall, I just don't see any reason for the new kit whatsoever. The old one looked decent enough, the new one looks almost the same. There are a lot of kits that need an update - badly. Just look at Ork buggies, most of what Demons have in the elites section, any CSM infantry except for the raptor-tallon dual kit and SOB in their entiriety.
All looks nice enough (and I'm kind of annoyed I already have a UM Command Squad, as those bits are dead cool!). I was really hoping the Assault Squad would be a 10-man box, but alas it seems building full squads will be just as expensive if not more so.
I agree, it is doable. I would have just preferred a full 10-man box for, say, £30ish, just to have everything in one place and save a bit, while still allowing the (arguably inexplicable) obligatory 'more than Tacticals' price from GW.
£20 for five is almost fine for elite units you'll only need one box of, but for something you likely want at least 20 of its a bit much.
Can anyone with younger eyes then mine glean any information from the text on the AM’s page?
Making a pair of new sergeants for my assault squads has been percolating around my to-do list. As is one more VV and a new foot captain. UM sprue plus a box of the new AMs should be just what I need. Well, “need” is used very loosely here, but will still get my wallet open.
And putting together a counts-as Sicarius just got added to the list.
Kosake wrote: The assault kit looks pretty bland to me. Aren't those just regular marines with a jump pack and a rock to stand on..? Meh.
The differences are subtle but the walking/running legs are nice for doing squads where they aren't all doing the turkish lavatory position. And it might just be bad compression on the image but the two guys on the right look like they've got slightly different helms?
What would you change?
I've just looked at the last Assault Marines and they allready have similar leg positioning. Maybe a bit less dynamic but not the typical latrine despoiler stance. It's not what I'd change, it's just that overall, I just don't see any reason for the new kit whatsoever. The old one looked decent enough, the new one looks almost the same. There are a lot of kits that need an update - badly. Just look at Ork buggies, most of what Demons have in the elites section, any CSM infantry except for the raptor-tallon dual kit and SOB in their entiriety.
Have you built one of the older SM plastic kits recently? They're an utter nightmare; soft & blurry detail, huge stubborn mould lines, warping, gaps everywhere. While I agree there are a lot of other things in the queue for replacement that are perhaps more deserving, but by no means is there no reason to replace the ASM kit.
Kosake wrote: The assault kit looks pretty bland to me. Aren't those just regular marines with a jump pack and a rock to stand on..? Meh.
The differences are subtle but the walking/running legs are nice for doing squads where they aren't all doing the turkish lavatory position. And it might just be bad compression on the image but the two guys on the right look like they've got slightly different helms?
What would you change?
I've just looked at the last Assault Marines and they allready have similar leg positioning. Maybe a bit less dynamic but not the typical latrine despoiler stance. It's not what I'd change, it's just that overall, I just don't see any reason for the new kit whatsoever. The old one looked decent enough, the new one looks almost the same. There are a lot of kits that need an update - badly. Just look at Ork buggies, most of what Demons have in the elites section, any CSM infantry except for the raptor-tallon dual kit and SOB in their entiriety.
Have you built one of the older SM plastic kits recently? They're an utter nightmare; soft & blurry detail, huge stubborn mould lines, warping, gaps everywhere. While I agree there are a lot of other things in the queue for replacement that are perhaps more deserving, but by no means is there no reason to replace the ASM kit.
So what you are saying is that the optically okay kit for space marines should get an update because it's got a wee bit used around the edges while the completely horrible, aged sculpts for xenos and demons (and the way furies look I bet they've been around even longer than the ork buggy, seriously, what are they? 2nd Edition? Rogue Trader?) can wait another 5 years when GW runs out of ideas for space marines?
Sorry, I am not convinced. Yeah, mould lines can be a pain, but do you think those are any less present on say the (ill-designed and bit-lacking) havoc kit?
Kosake wrote: So what you are saying is that the optically okay kit for space marines should get an update because it's got a wee bit used around the edges while the completely horrible, aged sculpts for xenos and demons (and the way furies look I bet they've been around even longer than the ork buggy, seriously, what are they? 2nd Edition? Rogue Trader?) can wait another 5 years when GW runs out of ideas for space marines?
Sorry, I am not convinced. Yeah, mould lines can be a pain, but do you think those are any less present on say the (ill-designed and bit-lacking) havoc kit?
No mate we're agreeing with you that there are lots of things that should be updated first but there's some logic in doing this one, particularly since SM are the cash cow
Have you built one of the older SM plastic kits recently? They're an utter nightmare; soft & blurry detail, huge stubborn mould lines, warping, gaps everywhere. While I agree there are a lot of other things in the queue for replacement that are perhaps more deserving, but by no means is there no reason to replace the ASM kit.
Yes, exactly. ASM, Devastator and Command (which shares the same body sprue as Devastator) have lower torso pieces that all look closer to finecast than HIPS. The details are fuzzy, the flat panels aren't smooth, and so on. Plus, they are many pieces short of a full sprue compared to a modern kit.
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Kosake wrote: So what you are saying is that the optically okay kit for space marines should get an update because it's got a wee bit used around the edges while the completely horrible, aged sculpts for xenos and demons (and the way furies look I bet they've been around even longer than the ork buggy, seriously, what are they? 2nd Edition? Rogue Trader?) can wait another 5 years when GW runs out of ideas for space marines?
Sorry, I am not convinced. Yeah, mould lines can be a pain, but do you think those are any less present on say the (ill-designed and bit-lacking) havoc kit?
Space Marines are updated because they are the most popular faction in the game, by a wide margin. Most of my friends that are Xenos players, at some point, have built some Space Marines. Frankly, I'm shocked there weren't new Eldar guardians and Aspect Warriors.
But anyhow, it's not an either/or. GW has pumped out TONS of models this year so far, and we're only approaching the half-way mark. There will be plenty of time for more Xenos models. Also, AdMech is Imperium, but the aesthetic is anything but the clean Guard/Astartes human look.
Why Chaos gets so little model love, I will never understand. Maybe it's not a popular faction to play? I think it is, but who knows.
casvalremdeikun wrote: SW shouldn't even exist, since there is basically no place that people will be using them since SW have all of their own kits. BA and DA could have come later. DA already have/had an upgrade sprue.
Im confused, SW has less specific kits than BA SW:
Logan
PA Terminators
TWC (Dreadnought, Flyer)
BA:
Sanguinary priest
Librarian
PA tacticals
PADC with jump packs
Sanguinary guard
Terminators
(Dreadnoughts, Predators, Flyer)
Not that it matters, none of them should be given upgrade sprues while other chapters/legions lack basic coverage.
To be fair though, if they pulled out a sprue like this to "fix" the lack of chaos legion specific models, people would get... upset.
So I talked to my source today, and we came to the conclusion that the DAtac squad I heard about and the upgrade set are one and the same. Hence why I was hearing conflicting rumours about it turning up.
Based on that I don't have any information as to whether GW are going to produced a DA specific Tac. Squad in the future. Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up on that front. Vague info is a [censored]
I haven't any exact info yet, but based on this I think the Deathwatch Veteran and Terminator kits I heard about will be upgrade sets in line with these new upgrade sets.
Yeah, as a DA player, we are pretty golden on our model range compared to a lot of others. I really wish they had not dropped the old vet/upgrade sprue, but it's done. The one thing I wish to hell they would come out with is a bike command box. Something where you could build a chapter-neutral bike mounted captain/librarian/techpriest/Chaplin.
Well, maybe chaos is an unpopular faction exactly because half of the models were done in the 90s? And because of the lack of frequent new stuff? That's not even taking ballance into account. I'm not a competetive player but I heard that chaos is rather "meh" in it's current version.
Correspondingly, would marines be as popular if they were not force-fed to you in every single starter kit? And constantly get some goodies from GW main and Frogeworld?
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
The sprues are small and underwhelming and apart from the UM one they are also largely redundant
Should have gone with IH, WS, Sallies and RG instead of DA/BA/SW
casvalremdeikun wrote: SW shouldn't even exist, since there is basically no place that people will be using them since SW have all of their own kits. BA and DA could have come later. DA already have/had an upgrade sprue.
Im confused, SW has less specific kits than BA
SW have their own Tactical, Devastator, Assault, and Terminator kits. BA have their own Tactical and Assault Terminator kits, so their have to use the standard SM kit for Devastator, Assault, and Tactical Terminators. So BA have more kits that need to upgrade than SW. I am not talking actual kits in total kits (though SW have 9 exclusive non-character kits to BA's 7, so even then SW edge BA out...).
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WhispererofTruth wrote: So I talked to my source today, and we came to the conclusion that the DAtac squad I heard about and the upgrade set are one and the same. Hence why I was hearing conflicting rumours about it turning up.
Based on that I don't have any information as to whether GW are going to produced a DA specific Tac. Squad in the future. Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up on that front. Vague info is a [censored]
I haven't any exact info yet, but based on this I think the Deathwatch Veteran and Terminator kits I heard about will be upgrade sets in line with these new upgrade sets.
That isn't necessarily true. BA received a Tactical Squad and are still getting an upgrade sprue. So don't give up hope. There is still a lot of room for a new DA tactical squad kit, it will probably release with the new DA codex, not the SM codex.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
There probably should be, but then all the Sisters players would act up.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
There probably should be, but then all the Sisters players would act up.
Seriously, if one deserves that thread, then it's sisters.
casvalremdeikun wrote: SW shouldn't even exist, since there is basically no place that people will be using them since SW have all of their own kits. BA and DA could have come later. DA already have/had an upgrade sprue.
Im confused, SW has less specific kits than BA
SW have their own Tactical, Devastator, Assault, and Terminator kits. BA have their own Tactical and Assault Terminator kits, so their have to use the standard SM kit for Devastator, Assault, and Tactical Terminators. So BA have more kits that need to upgrade than SW. I am not talking actual kits in total kits (though SW have 9 exclusive non-character kits to BA's 7, so even then SW edge BA out...).
It's actually pretty close. BA don't have their own tactical terminator kit, by the way. Excluding old resin kits:
SW: Tactical (Grey hunters), Devastator (Long Fangs), Assault (Skyclaw), Thunderwolf Cavalry, Terminators, Drednought, Stormwolf, Santa sleigh, Fenrisian Wolves BA: Tactical, Assault (Death Company), Sanguinary Guard, (Assault) Terminators, Dreadnought, Baal Pred, Librarian, Priest, and Stormraven comes OOB with BA icons.
Effectively, BA and SW can both model all heavy weapons, tactical marines and assault marines, terminators, and dreadnoughts using themed bits. Both have access to a themed flyer. SWTWC are offset by Sanguinary Guard. And the heroes are kind of comparable, I guess. BA don't have a specific devastator kit, but who cares -- getting 2 of each heavy weapon in a box of 5 blows anyways (you need to buy 3 boxes to field 5 of anything, and it's only a total of 15 units). Instead, buy 5 boxes of tacticals + enough assault for jump packs, and you'll have all the parts you need to make any combination of themed tactical, devastator and assault you want. And have like 60+ marines, which means that you'll have a bunch of spare torsos and other parts, plus be able to use which ever lower torsos make you happy for posing.
I guess SW edges it out a little bit, because their flyer is more unique, and the santa sleigh is.. uh.. different. Plus TWC is very unique. OTOH, BA look a lot closer to regular marines, if that's your thing. Either way, neither faction has much to complain about in terms of model love.
Still, an upgrade frame is most welcome It's not like you have to buy it.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
There probably should be, but then all the Sisters players would act up.
Seriously, if one deserves that thread, then it's sisters.
I'm sure both of the remaining SOB players could just take it to PM's instead of taking up a valuable thread that is better put to use by persistant(ly disgruntled) Chaos players.
warboss wrote: 'm sure both of the remaining SOB players could just take it to PM's instead of taking up a valuable thread that is better put to use by persistant(ly disgruntled) Chaos players.
warboss wrote: 'm sure both of the remaining SOB players could just take it to PM's instead of taking up a valuable thread that is better put to use by persistant(ly disgruntled) Chaos players.
You have no idea, son.
In case it didn't translate well, the above was a joke. There was supposed to be a at the end.
Azreal13 wrote: Except didn't LoW say a new book would be about now?
That's fairly solid info.
Agreed. There have been solid sources that rumored a new book. I was basically asking if there was actual confirmation though.
Then wait 4 days for the preorders to be up and you can see for yourself. GW doesn't do confirmations until they can take your money for it.
Likely there won't be a book this week, it would be in the White Dwarf. The current rumor is a 3 week release schedule and part of that includes the Assault Marines and Devestators, so probably this weekend will the the Assault box, next weekend the Devestator box, and then the book after that.
Still, an upgrade frame is most welcome It's not like you have to buy it.
Trust me, I will be buying a number of the BA upgrade kits. I agree, the upgrade frame is very welcome, I just wish other codices received it before SW and BA (I have armies of both of these, BTW). Definitely Fists since two Chapters in the book use that iconography. But all of the other FF chapters in the C:SM should have received them before BA and SW too. But, it isn't like this is something they can't release more of in the future. Maybe next year when 8th Ed comes out and they release a new SM codex for it we will get the other upgrade frames :p.
BTW, do we know what the transport capacity, if any, of the Land Raider Excelsior is? I am actually considering getting the Command Tank set, provided that the Land Raider can fit at least five Terminators in it (preferably 6 so I can put Pedro Kantor in there as well). If rumors are correct and the tank combo costs as much as four TFC, maybe not...
Usually by now there's been rules leaks. So far nothing.
As I said before, I'd bet good money the molds for the upgrade sprues were made years ago.....
Not really. We didn't have much of anything concrete from the BA codex until Week 2 (Codex Week) of the release schedule. I really didn't pay that close attention to the other codices that came out this year. Still, it is weird that we haven't seen any rules break yet. We don't even have complete rules for the command tanks.
The fact that we are getting these upgrade sprues in spite of the fact that two of the armies getting them have dedicated Tactical Squads does definitely does make it seem like these were made a while ago then set aside for some reason.
I am really hoping that they abolish the Honour Guard and make Chapter Masters be able to take Command Squads. I am betting that we will see Command Squads pushed into the already overcrowded Elites slot, though. I want Pedro Kantor to be able to get FNP to shore up his overly moronic 3+/4++, though I would gladly take a 2+/4++. Seriously, his Honour Guard had a better armor save than him.
warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Usually by now there's been rules leaks. So far nothing.
As I said before, I'd bet good money the molds for the upgrade sprues were made years ago.....
Not really. We didn't have much of anything concrete from the BA codex until Week 2 (Codex Week) of the release schedule. I really didn't pay that close attention to the other codices that came out this year. Still, it is weird that we haven't seen any rules break yet. We don't even have complete rules for the command tanks.
The fact that we are getting these upgrade sprues in spite of the fact that two of the armies getting them have dedicated Tactical Squads does definitely does make it seem like these were made a while ago then set aside for some reason.
I am really hoping that they abolish the Honour Guard and make Chapter Masters be able to take Command Squads. I am betting that we will see Command Squads pushed into the already overcrowded Elites slot, though. I want Pedro Kantor to be able to get FNP to shore up his overly moronic 3+/4++, though I would gladly take a 2+/4++. Seriously, his Honour Guard had a better armor save than him.
Well, as long as you have the option to upgrade Command Squads to Honor Guard, I'd appreciate that.
But, if not, oh well. Maybe they'll let Marneus Calgar take 3 Command Squads instead?
warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Usually by now there's been rules leaks. So far nothing.
As I said before, I'd bet good money the molds for the upgrade sprues were made years ago.....
Not really. We didn't have much of anything concrete from the BA codex until Week 2 (Codex Week) of the release schedule. I really didn't pay that close attention to the other codices that came out this year. Still, it is weird that we haven't seen any rules break yet. We don't even have complete rules for the command tanks.
The fact that we are getting these upgrade sprues in spite of the fact that two of the armies getting them have dedicated Tactical Squads does definitely does make it seem like these were made a while ago then set aside for some reason.
I am really hoping that they abolish the Honour Guard and make Chapter Masters be able to take Command Squads. I am betting that we will see Command Squads pushed into the already overcrowded Elites slot, though. I want Pedro Kantor to be able to get FNP to shore up his overly moronic 3+/4++, though I would gladly take a 2+/4++. Seriously, his Honour Guard had a better armor save than him.
Well, as long as you have the option to upgrade Command Squads to Honor Guard, I'd appreciate that.
But, if not, oh well. Maybe they'll let Marneus Calgar take 3 Command Squads instead?
I would be okay with the Command Squad being able to be upgraded to an Honour Guard. Really, it would just amount to upgrade the five veterans to Artificer Armor and a Power Weapon or Relic Blade. This would negate the ability to upgrade them to an apothecary or company champion, of course.
My other wishlist thing is for the Stalker and Hunter to receive some sort of a bump. Since they are dedicated AA tanks, they should have Interceptor. The Stalker should also be able to use Servo-tracking to shoot ground targets at BS2. I can't imagine these tanks are selling too well, what with them costing $8 USD more than the other Rhino Pattern, despite the other tanks having just as many options and also being infinitely more useful.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You know, the more I think about it, it really irks me quite a bit that, despite having additional books out for them, the Imperial Fists and Iron Hands don't get upgrade sprues.
The SW Longfang and Sky Claw boxes are simply a SW sprue + a dev/AM sprue. Since both of the later are going to be replaced, I expect both boxes to vanish. Instead we are supposed to get the new vanilla devs/AMs + upgrade sprue.
So this sprue would replace 2 boxes + the finecast shoulder pads. Makes sense to me.
I don't see the standard SW box being dropped for tac box + sprue as you need all those weapons to make Blood Claws and Wolf Guard.
I can't view the video above at work, but I assume it's the one with the kneeling marine and the servitors nearby? I thought that looked quite amazing even if it was a bit random in layout.
I assume you like the older work like Blanche and such?
I see the pics for the Ultras and DA's, but nothing suggesting BA and SW?
Did I blink and miss it?
No Evidence. Only this:
via Darnok @ Warseer I've been told there would be two more upgrade sets, so UM and DA are only the first half of that. Devastators will be the second kit after Assault Marines. Add a few clampack characters, and that's the SM release. DA will only get a codex and a character (plus this upgrade frame). I don't know whether the older DA upgrade sprue will remain in production - I hope so
natpri771 wrote: The release will be officially announced on May 30th, giving us time to pre-order for a June release
- Nekkid marine hype woot woot! Show us that black carapace, son! By the way, should it not be… black, or something?
- My money is on the Incubi. Pretty boy just does not seem up to the task.
Desubot wrote: So no upgrade spur for Imperial fists? :( well thats a bummer
But it looks like the assault marines get a neat two handed chainsword which could be cool.
I really like the look of 2H melee weapons (like thunderhammers) but I'm not a big fan of modelling them. More crossed arns... I just try to avoid They are like a trip to the dentist.
I kind of see terminators and assault marines as a treat, because you can put the whole thing together (minus jetpacks and heads) before painting
Evidently, the SW/BA upgrade sprues are confirmed as redirects now (though not week 1 releases). I sure wonder what's in there, too. They better be something other than shoulder pads and heads, or if they are, they had better be epic shoulder pads and heads, LOL.
I'm intrigued about the two handed chainsword. I've a Vanguard Vet modelled with one and have always thought that marines should have access to Eviscerators and Heavy Chainswords (Only Gabriel Seth uses one in 40k, really?). I'll be pretty annoyed if marines get them and BA don't to be honest as it'd be fluffier for BA.
Not overly fussed about the upgrade sprues. Spellcrow and Kromlech have some good Sallies stuff, FW has stuff for other first founding chapters, more and more all the time. DA, BA and SW all have ample bits. If these new ones are good (DA ones look ok, but nothing worth springing for so far) and substantially different from the existing ones then they might be worth picking up.
Like the striding poses on the Assault Squad as I've longed for Space Marine legs that are neither running nor stationary for a while.Wouldn't be using them on assault marines, though.
sockwithaticket wrote: I'm intrigued about the two handed chainsword. I've a Vanguard Vet modelled with one and have always thought that marines should have access to Eviscerators and Heavy Chainswords (Only Gabriel Seth uses one in 40k, really?). I'll be pretty annoyed if marines get them and BA don't to be honest as it'd be fluffier for BA.
Yeah, it would be annoying if SM got assault weapons that BA don't have access to, but I guess that's "inevitable" with SM codex coming half a year after BA. As a big Blood Angels fan, I demand that BA get a new codex NOW!!! RAWR. It's been too long! LOL.
In other random thoughts... will Space Marines get dice? Did Eldar get dice? I don't think so, right? I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the Harlequin ones -- a friend has a set, and they're pretty nifty. They seem such hit and miss. For instance, I have Skaven -- which are awesome -- and Blood Angels, which are just boring red dice.
via Tagriel @ Faeit 212 Looking at the new white dwarf issue 70 and I can confirm ultra marines upgrades blood angel upgrades space wolf upgrades and dark angels upgrades also space marine assault squad corax white spray (white undercoat spray) ultramarines transfer sheet, blood angels transfer sheet and dark angels transfer sheet these are huge color transfer sheets with banners and icons over 700 transfers on one sheet.
Desubot wrote: So no upgrade spur for Imperial fists? :( well thats a bummer
But it looks like the assault marines get a neat two handed chainsword which could be cool.
It's unlikely that we'll see any other upgrade sprues than perhaps the Black Templars.
It makes more business sense for GW to focus on a handful of Chapters, than to do a large number of them. It's why they've always focused on the Big Four (BA, DA, SW, UM) in their marketing efforts, and left the other chapters to the fluffy players.
Show us that black carapace, son! By the way, should it not be… black, or something?
sockwithaticket wrote: I'm intrigued about the two handed chainsword. I've a Vanguard Vet modelled with one and have always thought that marines should have access to Eviscerators and Heavy Chainswords (Only Gabriel Seth uses one in 40k, really?).
Pretty sure everyone else has an eviscerator, regular CCW, or a few unique items.
edit: when talking about oversized chainswords, of course
Very disappointing to read that blurb about the Dark Angels Upgrade Kit.
I'm a fan of variety so I won't fuss when other armies are treated better - after all, BA, SW, & UM Players probably do make up the bulk of SM players - but honestly they don't really need their own Tactical box sets... that's just insulting when DA are the only ones whose models look different enough to actually require a different model. I don't need more heads. Or Shoulders. Or Icons... What i need is Tactical Marines in friggin' robes. The DA Tax is just OTT expensive.
And WTF is up with the feathered Khorne helmets? I know the DA take the 'angels' thing more literally than other chapters but... for real? Those wings look terrible? Very tacky.
As it stands, a squad of DA Marines costs $35 for the 10 man box, $66 more USD for the two boxes of Veterans so that I can use their robes. Anyone else paying $100 USD per tac squad? didn't think so...
It's even worse for ASM. I have to buy the ASM, then the Vets for just 5 guys. I take it one step further and buy the Sanguinary Guard and use their winged jump packs as well - if I'm investing that much into 5 dudes I may as well go all in.
Here's hoping (in vain likely) that the BA do in fact get at tactical box ... they genuinely need it more than any other chapter.
I'm just confused about the SW upgrade kit. I mean, don't they already have enough chapter specific models? They don't need to upgrade Tacticals, Devestators, Assault Marines, Scouts - the SW versions of those already have their own kits. I guess it's for HQs and bikes? It just feels so wasted.
En Excelsis wrote: Very disappointing to read that blurb about the Dark Angels Upgrade Kit.
I'm a fan of variety so I won't fuss when other armies are treated better - after all, BA, SW, & UM Players probably do make up the bulk of SM players - but honestly they don't really need their own Tactical box sets... that's just insulting when DA are the only ones whose models look different enough to actually require a different model. I don't need more heads. Or Shoulders. Or Icons... What i need is Tactical Marines in friggin' robes. The DA Tax is just OTT expensive.
And WTF is up with the feathered Khorne helmets? I know the DA take the 'angels' thing more literally than other chapters but... for real? Those wings look terrible? Very tacky.
As it stands, a squad of DA Marines costs $35 for the 10 man box, $66 more USD for the two boxes of Veterans so that I can use their robes. Anyone else paying $100 USD per tac squad? didn't think so...
It's even worse for ASM. I have to buy the ASM, then the Vets for just 5 guys. I take it one step further and buy the Sanguinary Guard and use their winged jump packs as well - if I'm investing that much into 5 dudes I may as well go all in.
Here's hoping (in vain likely) that the BA do in fact get at tactical box ... they genuinely need it more than any other chapter.
The feathered wings on the helmet date back to some of the earlier metal Captain models for DA. I know my brother picked up one of those models back in the late 90s. I agree that it looks a bit absurd but it is established DA lore.
The Space Wovles dont have their own unique Assault Mariens or Devastators. It is the basic current vanilla marine Devastators and Assault Marines, With a sprue taken from the Grey Hunter box stuffed in with them.
Requizen wrote: I'm just confused about the SW upgrade kit. I mean, don't they already have enough chapter specific models? They don't need to upgrade Tacticals, Devestators, Assault Marines, Scouts - the SW versions of those already have their own kits. I guess it's for HQs and bikes? It just feels so wasted.
On a guess it's to replace the current space wolves upgrade sprue, and probably to replace the two sets of shoulder pads they have. There is also no space wolves scout box, just spare pieces from the space wolves pack box to use to convert standard scouts into wolf scouts. And as previously said the long fang and sky claw packs are just the standard marine kits, with a space wolves sprue. Essentially we have one kit, that is used to turn the standard marines kits into space wolves kits, and in some cases GW has been kind enough to stick a quarter of this kit into another kit
Merellin wrote: The Space Wovles dont have their own unique Assault Mariens or Devastators. It is the basic current vanilla marine Devastators and Assault Marines, With a sprue taken from the Grey Hunter box stuffed in with them.
So? It amounts to the same thing. They don't particularly need the upgrade sprue since they have infantry boxes with SW stuff inside. Raven Guard, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, etc could all use them more, imo.
Would have liked to see the Assault Marine sprues. Aside from the two-handed chainsword and the new hairstyle there isn't anything different I've been able to notice.
And yes, other chapters could definitely use upgrade sprues more than some of the ones we're getting.
Show us that black carapace, son! By the way, should it not be… black, or something?
It's supposed to be implanted under the skin.
Yeah, but if you were to put something black between the skin and the flesh, should people still look pink like that? I am pretty sure marines should look like either natural black people or unnatural black people. I would totally forgive GW if the next artwork of a nekkid space marine has him in a b&b pose, I might forgive them. Or Sisters plastic models.
En Excelsis wrote: I'm a fan of variety so I won't fuss when other armies are treated better - after all, BA, SW, & UM Players probably do make up the bulk of SM players - but honestly they don't really need their own Tactical box sets... that's just insulting
I could certainly see a market for a full set of those snarling wolf heads, to recreate the old power-armored model. Would be great for a unit of Chaos Chosen in an army representing turned Space Wolves.
En Excelsis wrote: Very disappointing to read that blurb about the Dark Angels Upgrade Kit.
I'm a fan of variety so I won't fuss when other armies are treated better - after all, BA, SW, & UM Players probably do make up the bulk of SM players - but honestly they don't really need their own Tactical box sets... that's just insulting when DA are the only ones whose models look different enough to actually require a different model. I don't need more heads. Or Shoulders. Or Icons... What i need is Tactical Marines in friggin' robes. The DA Tax is just OTT expensive.
And WTF is up with the feathered Khorne helmets? I know the DA take the 'angels' thing more literally than other chapters but... for real? Those wings look terrible? Very tacky.
As it stands, a squad of DA Marines costs $35 for the 10 man box, $66 more USD for the two boxes of Veterans so that I can use their robes. Anyone else paying $100 USD per tac squad? didn't think so...
It's even worse for ASM. I have to buy the ASM, then the Vets for just 5 guys. I take it one step further and buy the Sanguinary Guard and use their winged jump packs as well - if I'm investing that much into 5 dudes I may as well go all in.
Here's hoping (in vain likely) that the BA do in fact get at tactical box ... they genuinely need it more than any other chapter.
Except that in the fluff DA tacticals don't wear robes; only Veterans do. A DA specific tactical box would still only have 1 robe at best.
As a space wolf player I don't really see the point in us getting an upgrade kit as pointed out by many others. Although it is nice to see that other than shoulder pads they don't seem to recycled sculpts which they could have so easily been
However that frost sword and all the bits that aren't shoulder pads will make me get it, just so I can convert up some 30k marines.
I am probably alone here but I loathe the feather helmets on Dark Angels. They are my favorite chapter but I have always hated the absurdity of them. Even went so far as to slip all the feathers off of all my Dark Angels. Just seems .....off somehow to me.
I foresee some awesome Ragnar Blackmane conversions from that Space Wolves sprue. That chain sword is awesome.
Also... FETHING YES!!! No more free hand wing and dagger motifs for me. Or attempted Libby banners etc etc. Some really nice vehicle markings there too!
Meh, I don't think you can constantly have killer releases each time. We've been a bit spoiled with the last few releases, occasionally you just need to get stuff like this out of the way. I mean, I know SM are the posterboys and stuff, but if they're not adding anything new to the codex, I'm not surprised this first week is just like this.
Upgrade sprues for chapters that already have their own kits or upgrade sprue equivalent (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) but...nothing for Iron Hands, White Scars, Imperial Fists or Salamanders? That seems redundant and also slightly off when you consider that BA, DA and SW have their own books and are nothing to do with the core SM Codex....
Then you add in Transfer sheets for two of those chapters again! (BA and DA) - also oddly out of place - they already have plenty of options for moulded shoulder pads in their respective kits...why do they now need transfers too?
For an opening salvo for a SM codex release....this seems strangely out of focus. You're meant to be pushing new SMs, not BAs, DAs and SWs.
Young_Logan wrote: As a space wolf player I don't really see the point in us getting an upgrade kit as pointed out by many others. Although it is nice to see that other than shoulder pads they don't seem to recycled sculpts which they could have so easily been
However that frost sword and all the bits that aren't shoulder pads will make me get it, just so I can convert up some 30k marines.
What if they remove all the Spacewolves related squad boxes and you get to use this sprue with regular squads (to save shelf space)? That's three to five fewer boxes (Bloodclaws, Grey Hunter, Long Fangs, Skyclaws, Wolf Guard)
In other random thoughts... will Space Marines get dice? Did Eldar get dice? I don't think so, right? I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the Harlequin ones -- a friend has a set, and they're pretty nifty. They seem such hit and miss. For instance, I have Skaven -- which are awesome -- and Blood Angels, which are just boring red dice.
My harli dice are loaded I swear they roll 1s about a third of the time
In other random thoughts... will Space Marines get dice? Did Eldar get dice? I don't think so, right? I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the Harlequin ones -- a friend has a set, and they're pretty nifty. They seem such hit and miss. For instance, I have Skaven -- which are awesome -- and Blood Angels, which are just boring red dice.
My harli dice are loaded I swear they roll 1s about a third of the time
Well there was a study a while ago about the regular Citadel dice that showed that they rolled 1s slightly more often than other dice.
In other random thoughts... will Space Marines get dice? Did Eldar get dice? I don't think so, right? I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the Harlequin ones -- a friend has a set, and they're pretty nifty. They seem such hit and miss. For instance, I have Skaven -- which are awesome -- and Blood Angels, which are just boring red dice.
My harli dice are loaded I swear they roll 1s about a third of the time
Well there was a study a while ago about the regular Citadel dice that showed that they rolled 1s slightly more often than other dice.
If you roll more 1s... games are shorter.
Shorter games means you can get more games.
More games means Forging™ more Narratives™!
Except that in the fluff DA tacticals don't wear robes; only Veterans do. A DA specific tactical box would still only have 1 robe at best.
Any member of the Dark Angels who is considered to be inducted into the whole "Fallen are really Dark Angels gone Bad" thing can wear robes, so you could actually justify a fully robed army easily enough.
Young_Logan wrote: As a space wolf player I don't really see the point in us getting an upgrade kit as pointed out by many others. Although it is nice to see that other than shoulder pads they don't seem to recycled sculpts which they could have so easily been
However that frost sword and all the bits that aren't shoulder pads will make me get it, just so I can convert up some 30k marines.
What if they remove all the Spacewolves related squad boxes and you get to use this sprue with regular squads (to save shelf space)? That's three to five fewer boxes (Bloodclaws, Grey Hunter, Long Fangs, Skyclaws, Wolf Guard)
The Blood Claws and Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters are all in the same box labeled "Space Wolves Pack". They show up on the GW website as different items because that's what they do now with multi-kit boxes. There are effectively four "Troopish" boxes for Space Wolves: Wolf Guard Terminators, Space Wolves Pack, Skyclaws, and Long Fangs.
Honestly these sprues strike me less as "We're making squad upgrade packs now!" and more "We're making character upgrade packs that match some older models so we can discontinue them!".
Wolf Skull helmet coupled with some of the other parts and a Crozius Arcanum/Plasma Pistol equals a brand spankin' new Ulrik the Slayer.
Pelt and backpack coupled with the Frost Sword and some creative modeling equals a new Ragnar Blackmane.
The bits for Blood Angels can pretty easily make you a new Tycho or Corbulo as well.
Wow, the BA sprue is underwhelming compared to the others. The DA one comes with an awesome Power Sword/Relic Blade and a plasma pistol, the SW comes with a huge chainsword and a cool looking Frost Axe, UM comes with a power sword. The BA one comes with a...dagger. At least it comes with a blood chalice so you can custom make a Sanguinary Priest from an Apothecary.
Except that in the fluff DA tacticals don't wear robes; only Veterans do. A DA specific tactical box would still only have 1 robe at best.
Any member of the Dark Angels who is considered to be inducted into the whole "Fallen are really Dark Angels gone Bad" thing can wear robes, so you could actually justify a fully robed army easily enough.
Technically, yeah, but that's not how GW displays them themselves, where generally use the robes as a way to easily distinguish between different types of units/models.
It's the same for BA with nipple armour, GK with loin cloths, BT with tabards, UM with pteruges/plumes, etc.
Except that in the fluff DA tacticals don't wear robes; only Veterans do. A DA specific tactical box would still only have 1 robe at best.
Any member of the Dark Angels who is considered to be inducted into the whole "Fallen are really Dark Angels gone Bad" thing can wear robes, so you could actually justify a fully robed army easily enough.
Technically, yeah, but that's not how GW displays them themselves, where generally use the robes as a way to easily distinguish between different types of units/models.
And "technically", they're doing it wrong by not having their Sergeants wearing robes in the majority of the squads and not having robes across the entirety of the Deathwing squads.
The ability to be ENTITLED to wear the robes does not necessarily equate to someone wearing them.
As a necron player I really feel your pain for having to use all these upgrade sprues... must be terribly taxing to be able to set your guys up with maximum individualism, customer poses, unlimited weaponry and use rule of cool at all times...
I really hope that more will follow. If not, they have bizarrely chosen to only release content for three of the four (the last being Grey Knights) most highly-decorated Chapters. I mean, wow. An Iron Hands sprue would probably be popular among non-IH players simply for the bionics. An Imperial Fists one would do double for Crimson Fists, and a Black Templars one could be useful for anyone who wants tabards and more power swords.
And they couldn't even do one for Chaos to go with Khorne Daemonkin.
Ffyllotek wrote: As a necron player I really feel your pain for having to use all these upgrade sprues... must be terribly taxing to be able to set your guys up with maximum individualism, customer poses, unlimited weaponry and use rule of cool at all times...
The Deathwing have agents spread throughout the chapter to monitor everyone for signs of corruption. Anyone deemed worthy within the Chapter, can be inducted to the Deathwing. If they can't handle it or are deemed a security risk, they're bumped off in an "accident" or killed on the spot. Techmarines are not allowed in the Deathwing because their allegiance is split between the Chapter and the Mechanicus.
Ffyllotek wrote: As a necron player I really feel your pain for having to use all these upgrade sprues... must be terribly taxing to be able to set your guys up with maximum individualism, customer poses, unlimited weaponry and use rule of cool at all times...
Hey. Your models are plastic and multipart!
Is lack of individualism really a valid complaint with Necrons?
Frozen Ocean wrote: I really hope that more will follow. If not, they have bizarrely chosen to only release content for three of the four (the last being Grey Knights) most highly-decorated Chapters. I mean, wow. An Iron Hands sprue would probably be popular among non-IH players simply for the bionics. An Imperial Fists one would do double for Crimson Fists, and a Black Templars one could be useful for anyone who wants tabards and more power swords.
And they couldn't even do one for Chaos to go with Khorne Daemonkin.
Im pretty sure they will get to it.
They have plently of BADA and SW cad stuff from recent releases cutting and pasting out new spues should be quick for those which makes sense. as for Smurfs.... well they are smurfs so would probably get all the loving.
C:SM is probably going to be only first founding chapters book with supplements for second + founding like BT and CF.
we will probably see single upgrade spures for the rest of the First founding eventually.
This just goes to prove their horrible perception of their customer base. Making upgrade sprues for 3 of the most overdecorated chapters in the Imperium of Man, neither of which belong in the C:SM book, is not only absurdly redundant (considering the sheer amount of bits available for the respective chapters); it's also stupid and insulting beyond belief.
What's that? You wanted chapters other than Matt Ward's wet fantasy Smurfs to get attention and actual recognition? Well feth that; here's some ULTRAMARINES, lead by your chapter masters spiritual liege!
Also, we're going to rerelease 2 units, both of which are terrible units and rarely, if ever, gets off the shelf from which they collect dust from and raise the price a bit more for good measure.
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Please don't bypass the language filter like this.
These sprues and decal sheets seem to herald the GW Horus Heresy release rumored to come in Fall 2015. Afaik Jes Goodwin's daughter has done lots of new decal sheets for GW and FW and there are more to come. This is not a rumor but was talked about on Warhammer Fest (if I remember correctly).
GW will probably not produce Tactical Squad and other boxes for all major chapters. These new type of upgrade sprues and transfer sheets are a good way to provide chapter specific bits for Space Marines - loyal and renegade, for 30k and 40k. Financially it just makes the most sense. Also Deathwatch are probably getting an upgrade sprue or two.
