Looks pretty good from where I'm sitting. I like that weapons seem to be able to be handed out freely rather than being tied to a model. I guess that's more of a campaign/narrative thing - who knows if that's balanced enough for player versus player or if equipment restrictions are required there. But as a modeler first and foremost, I am very happy to see this.
The armor mechanic looks pretty elegant, too. Scaling armor that has different success rates for the different tiers is great, making any armor useful without blatantly favoring heavy armor, but allowing heavy armor to soak more damage. Nice.
Just to note, there were a few rules mistakes in that video (Ken did a great job with the demos over the weekend, we threw him in with minimal training, so a few things slipped through).
I'm off for another four days of demoing at a con this week (not even made it out of Indy yet...) but once im back we will be sitting down in the office and working on some short videos showcasing how different mechanics work.
We are also looking at ensuring the various tokens and cards are as intuitive to use and simple as possible.
The game does look complex, with a lot of moving parts, but I ran 7 three hour games across GenCon with groups mostly comprised of non wargamers and they all got the core mechanics in 2-3 activations. The wargamers were able to intuit then bulk of the game by reading the card and our reference sheet.
If people have any specifics they want me to cover, feel free to ask, or else wait for our videos.
One thing I missed in my last post that stuck out is line of sight. LOS, so often being a sticky point in tabletop games, seems fine in a purely 2D game. Any point of the base to any point off the enemy base grants LOS. Center of base to center of base determines concealment. Seems simple enough, but is there any way to account for the miniature itself? Say a wall obscures a Deathclaw up to its knees, so you obviously don't see the base, but three quarters of the stupid lizard still poke out over the wall. How is this handled?
TBH I found the GenCon presentation pretty disappointing, as someone who could not be there this year. It appears timing didn't work out for whatever reason in terms of getting the minis show ready. And the game components are otherwise (hopefully) all alpha, except the Red Rocket, is that correct? Most importantly, I don't know anything more about the game now than before. I follow Modiphius on FB and joined the Facebook group for the game, the latter of which is the only reason I could find the pics I posted ITT. It's tough to work the con keeping in mind that what's going on in Indy is just the tip of the iceberg as to who is trying to get info. Would be a good idea to reach out to independent content creators to help, as suggested early on in this thread.
Going forward, I am really looking forward to learning more about the product line in a more coherent way, with the vids noted above.
I've compiled a list of some of the game errors from the GenCon video, thought it worth bringing here to as we want to ensure people are seeing the game in the proper light.
We will be doing some in house videos in the next few weeks showing off all the different aspects covered (I am off to another show immediately, having landed back in the UK today, then am taking a week off so my partner doesn't leave me ) So, keep an eye out for them.
GenCon was all about the Star Trek launch for us this year, which went really well, but we knew folks were hungry to see something of Fallout so we put together the basic demo kit and some initial model casts just so people could start to get a feel for the game. Expect quality and presentation to ramp up accordingly as we move into pre-release and so on.
As for the components, yes they are 100% play test only. Expect a much more polished set of tokens and cards, our designer is already well underway making them look awesome.
As for the scenery question, currently you would get the -2 penalty as you could still see the model, but it would be protected a little. We are looking at scenery a little more in depth to see where we want to take the rules, but we are keen to make the game as accessible as possible to both wargamers and RPG/board gamers so don't want to bog down too much into minutia. The game already has a lot of moving parts, but in all the demos I ran (7 three hour sessions across the weekend) everyone picked up the core of the game after one round.
Ok, I've put together a short list of the slight errors made in the demo. Note: the game is in polishing/revision so these may change (I got my hands on the latest draft of the rules this afternoon) but its pretty much where the game will be at launch.
Again, huge thanks to Ken who was running these demos solo a lot of the time, and didn't get the most in depth run through the rules. The first rule of a successful demo is keep the game flowing, and flavour over accuracy, so sometimes you play a little fast and loose with Con demos.
Here is what needs to be noted.
The major error was with crits. Critical points are earned each time you make a successful hit. They add one yellow token to the model card. If you roll a crit on the skill dice (!) it counts as a 1 to hit, and adds a second yellow token to the crit track. Once you have accrued enough tokens to max out the track, you can choose to spend them any time you make an attack action. The shot/strike hits automatically, so you don't need to roll the white skill dice, but you do get to roll any applicable bonus dice from a shot at the range you are at. Many weapons also add some extra dice to the roll (the purple dice in the case in the video) as well as doing more damage and potentially adding special skills, such as the combat shot gun triggering limb damage if you get a Nuka Cola bottle .
Only heroic models get to use the crit rules, in this game it would be the sole survivor in T60 and the Super Mutant Master. So, non heroic models will usually tuck the crit part of the weapon card under their stat card so you can't see it, as they will never use it. Heroic models will leave it uncovered, but only use the right hand side of the card when spending crit tokens. Crits can only be used during a models activation, not as a reaction.
The extra black dice in melee combat is added if a model is Strength 7 or higher.
When you charge, you can choose to add either a green or a black dice to the next melee strike. This can be wrapped round to the next turn if you use all your action points to get the charge.
Heroic models also get access to VATs (I think I will save a full explanation of heroic for the blog, as there are a fair few elements too it, including luck, more wounds, and three extra types of quick action). At the start of a heroic action, you roll a purple special dice, and for each Nuka Cola bottle you roll, you get a quick action. So, two standard actions and zero to two quick actions depending on the roll.
A quick action can be spent to make a move/charge, an attack, a skill action (hack, lock pick, examine etc) or prepare (we all look at prepare another time, but essentially you ready yourself to react to enemy actions). However, there is a -2 penalty to any stats needed for skill checks, and any movement is one range ruler down. Each suck action type can only be used once per model activation, so you could only make two normal shoot actions and one quick shoot action a turn, even if you rolled two Nuka Cola bottles.
The weapons may have one or more special rules (later rifles ignore armour if you roll a Nuka Cola bottle for example). These are always in play. If a weapon special has a number after it, that is the limit to how many times that can be triggered per shot (e.g. laser rifles can only set you on fire once, but can ignore multiple points of armour if you roll multiple Nuka Cola bottles).
If you shoot into a melee, you get a positive 2 to your skill stat, to represent the larger mass of bodies being easier to hit. However, you must then randomise the shot between all the combatants, so you could hit your ally in the back.
Melee attacks can be made with ranged weapons (essentially a point blank shot) but you suffer a -2 to the skill roll and currently some reduction of damage with rifles, but this is under revision.
Yellow dice are armour piercing dice, not crit dice. They usually help punch through armour, but each special dice has one or two icons from the other dice to add variety
Green dice help with accuracy
Black dice help with damage (always chose black dice, they rock)
Purple dice are special and trigger VATs and weapon special abilities.
The red dice is the armour dice, that was used correctly in the game (though some models have armour bonuses, that give a flat +1 or more to any save, these then degrade as shots are taken, much like in the game).
The white dice is the skill dice, and is used whenever you are making a skill test involving your SPECIAL stats and possibly one or more bonus dice.
The game itself has several modes that can be played and combined to provide the experience you want. Very loosely these split down as follows. The core rules will be used for everything, e.g. movement, shooting, combat, skill checks etc. A classic War-game will use these pretty much exclusively, with some scenarios to give games purpose. Then there will be a persistent campaign mode, tentatively called settlement mode, where you can skill up models, explore the wasteland, build a settlement and generally do campaign style things. There will also be narrative missions that can be played in sequence that help tell the story of your journey through the wasteland. Finally, there will be an AI deck, that will expand as you purchase more figures (each box set will add thematic AI cards linked to the contents of the box) if you prefer to play solo or co-op.
I think that's everything so far that caught my eye, but we will continue to monitor anything from GenCon to make sure the correct rules are being looked at. As ever, we are still in final development, so there may be some tweaks to this, but that's where we are as of today.
Manchu wrote: Were there any Star Trek minis/tiles previewed at GenCon? Haven't seen any pics on Modiphius FB.
On topic, what is release date for FO? Preorder is September, right? Shipping in December?
We had the Borg Cube prototype on the stand, including a set of each of the four sets of initial wave minis (Star Trek and Next Gen crews, plus Klingons and Vulcans). There are more Star trek minis on the way, but we didn't have them to show. Also, my newly recruited painter has received the minis and will be painting them up in the next few weeks. We also had the dice for sale, and the previews of the the tokens, but sadly didn't have them to sell. Pre-order on the Borg Cube ends pretty soon, so book now if you want one.
I actually ended up playing a bit of Star Trek as part of a test of a scenario that is being pitched to us. Spent a lot of time running around as a doctor scanning corpses. My kind of deal.
FO:WW is pencilled in for a pre-order in two to three weeks, and we'd like to get it to pre-order customers by Christmas. However, I would urge caution and make no promises on that front as I don't want to disappoint, so add/subtract a couple of weeks for that, especially with Christmas shipping. Aim for retail is to get it in store by February, but again the same caveats apply
If you pre-order from us, there is a bonus figure if you spend over a threshold, and there will also be a Borg Cube equivalent for WW which will again be a bundle of cool stuff in an exclusive box.
Thanks for the info JonWebb - is there enough of a minis game in the Star Trek releases to warrant a News & Rumors thread here on Dakka?
Is the FO pre-order for resin only? I am 100% buying the FOWW line, likely the whole line, but am split one whether to go for resin or wait for plastic.
JonWebb wrote: If you pre-order from us, there is a bonus figure if you spend over a threshold, and there will also be a Borg Cube equivalent for WW which will again be a bundle of cool stuff in an exclusive box.
Way cool! Is the bonus figure exclusive for the pre-order or something that will be available for purchase later?
Manchu wrote: Thanks for the info JonWebb - is there enough of a minis game in the Star Trek releases to warrant a News & Rumors thread here on Dakka?
Is the FO pre-order for resin only? I am 100% buying the FOWW line, likely the whole line, but am split one whether to go for resin or wait for plastic.
They have said resin for preorder, pvc early next year.
All true. I guess what I meant was that the Resin quality is still an unknown quantity and so making any kind of guess about PVC is all but impossible.
Lesser quality than the resins for sure, but as of yet we really don't know what that means.
I lied I'm bringing up the FFG game one last time, this time I'm serious.
I just got my Gameinformer magazine in the mail, and low and behold FFG Fallout game is in there... I'm not suprised as FFG has been in the magazine before but, I'm a worry wort and want the best for this game, not another FFG token ridden game.
Thanks for the corrections! I think this game is the only reason that I check my email daily
JonWebb wrote: If you pre-order from us, there is a bonus figure if you spend over a threshold, and there will also be a Borg Cube equivalent for WW which will again be a bundle of cool stuff in an exclusive box.
Way cool! Is the bonus figure exclusive for the pre-order or something that will be available for purchase later?
I think its going to be a pre-order exclusive for now, but I feel like we might be bringing the exclusive minis to shows too (there may be more than one, though how and where they are available I won't commit to as yet ) there is nothing worse than not being able to get minis as you were not in the right place at the right time, but that has to be balanced against generating excitement and making special minis special, so we shall see. To confirm, I am heading up war-games, not our sales side of things, so I don't call the shots there (but do offer suggestions where I can, much to the chagrin of anyone within earshot at times :p)
Manchu wrote:And it would be nice to have some clear pics of the minis.
We will be sorting studio shots over the next few weeks, once the painter is sending stuff our way, we want to get getting shots out to everywhere we can. The resin minis look great (everything at GenCon was a pre-production resin cast except Dogmeat and the Turret which were 3D prints, the turret I painted in 2 hours so that we had at least something that shows the painted quality of the figures. I'm away at another con from today, but should get some shots of that at least once I return, and the boss allows me to show it off.
In terms of the PVC, the line will be entirely resin, but we will be doing a second starter in PVC early next year. That should have a fair few more figures than in the resin starter. If this goes well, there is some talk of doing more in PVC (a lot of folks I spoke to at GenCon were board game folks, rather than minis folks, so were keen to have access to a range that suits their needs). Of course, running the line in two different materials is always cost prohibitive, so at this stage don't expect anything beyond the starter set, but we are considering all options and ultimately, sales/demand drives decisions to an extent. Steam Forged have recently switched their entire production of Guildball over to PVC, and I had a chat with Rich and Matt at the show, they were very keen to show their new stuff off, and it is pretty decent, coming from someone who isn't thrilled with PVC and the impact its had on my hobby.
JonWebb wrote: As for the scenery question, currently you would get the -2 penalty as you could still see the model, but it would be protected a little. We are looking at scenery a little more in depth to see where we want to take the rules, but we are keen to make the game as accessible as possible to both wargamers and RPG/board gamers so don't want to bog down too much into minutia. The game already has a lot of moving parts, but in all the demos I ran (7 three hour sessions across the weekend) everyone picked up the core of the game after one round.
I can live with that. I guess I'm just shell shocked by 40k's bogus terrain rules and therefore extra cautious when it comes to LOS and cover because it's so fresh on my mind. There's nothing worse than seeing a model obscured by terrain and not have this accounted for in the rules. It breaks my immersion, and I think it's safe to say that anyone coming from the video games is going to agree that it's harder to shoot a dude who is poking around a corner than the same guy standing in the open.
JonWebb wrote: If you shoot into a melee, you get a positive 2 to your skill stat, to represent the larger mass of bodies being easier to hit. However, you must then randomise the shot between all the combatants, so you could hit your ally in the back.
I love this.
JonWebb wrote: FO:WW is pencilled in for a pre-order in two to three weeks, and we'd like to get it to pre-order customers by Christmas. However, I would urge caution and make no promises on that front as I don't want to disappoint, so add/subtract a couple of weeks for that, especially with Christmas shipping. Aim for retail is to get it in store by February, but again the same caveats apply
Tooooooooooooo loooooooong!
Ah well, at least we'll get to see the starting lineup and get good model pictures soonish. More time to build terrain, I guess...
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Oh man... what was this "Borg Cube" esque box people are talking about?
With birthday and the holidays not TOO far out, I would love to be able to throw $300-400 at some kind of massive "all in" crate... though part of me will only be fully invested when/if that campaign-game/Necromunda/Settlement expansion book launches.
Yes there will be a web only exclusive special edition which will contain a lot of cool stuff. It won't be as high as the Borg Cube you'll be glad to know :-)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Aeneades wrote: I don't think it has been posted here yet but Chris confirmed the contents of the resin starter -
Female sole survivor
Dogmeat
Brotherhood of Steel aspirant in T60
3 settlers
vs
Super Mutant Brute
2 standard Super Mutants
2 Super Mutant Hounds
One of the other boxes contains male sole survivor with Codsworth and a variant dogmeat.
Didn't they just say, within the last couple days, that the people who got the resin starter vs. the plastic one wouldn't need to worry about needing both to have all the models/options? Am I wrong in thinking this content list already makes it sound like the two starters are drastically different?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and in light of the Necromunda news, I hope Modiphius is deadly serious about that big, robust, campaign system/book they alluded to for the spring. That's a big part of my and many others' interest, and it sounds like there will be competition within that space again, on shelves.
Yes the pvc starter set will be made up of figures in wave 1 releases - it will be Brotherhood of Steel and another faction which you already have access to in resin. It means we'll then likely do the main faction boxes in pvc as well later on if things go to plan
Pacific wrote:Luck definitely sounds like a neat idea! Agree about the re-rolls, and how it can get out of hand (cue all of the Xzibit "I heard you like re-rolls with your re-rolls memes!) One other way of doing that is to force a re-roll on all or none of the dice, as other games have done successfully (making more of a gamble), but this sounds like a neat way of doing it to.
The Behemoth looks like a nice (if that's the right word!) miniature as well, can see that being a hold-breath moment when that thing is placed down on the tabletop!
Re-rolls are a lot more powerful than a simple bonus which gives more control to the use of luck. Yep the Behemoth is going to be a beast on the table. Imagine finding that in a random encounter too - we just brought in one of my old AI concepts from a game I developed a way back for myself which is the idea of encounters being on alert or unprepared. Do you get a chance to duck back in to cover if what you stumble in to is too powerful?
Maddok_Death wrote:Modiphius just posted a live video on Facebook at gen con and showed a glimpse of the Fallout stuff. Red Rocket looks as awesome as I thought It would. Plenty of tokens and a quick glance over the minis. The hype! side note the game mat is a little on the sad side super bright yellow cracked earth.
JonWebb wrote:Just to note guys, that's not the mat that will be coming with red rocket. That's just a mat I grabbed from the studio to bring for demos.
Unless something has changed that I haven't been told yet ...
As Jon confirmed later it's just a sample Matt from Battlesystems, the nice guys there are working on a design for a 3 x 3 matt which is based on the terrain of the Red Rocket station with the approach road etc. We're planning others including the Sanctuary Hills settlement.
Pacific wrote:Me too !
How did the demos go JonWebb, did the game get a lot of interest at the show?
Have to say the miniatures look great, this is by far the most excited I have ever been by a vending machine miniature!
Lots of buzz - the demo table was solid all through the show and kept us busy demoing or explaining the game. I was doing interviews about the project non stop - hardly got to walk the show floor. Certainly from the level of interest i think we're going to be mobbed in the pre-order. The FFG game looks cool too and I met the designers. We're talking about how we can cross-promote and support each other.
Maddok_Death wrote:Yeah totally looks like a 3x3.
The FFG game looks like their Twilight Emperium game and Catan combined. I Promise thats the last thing that ill say about the FFG Game!
The use of D12s looks interesting, I've already got plenty from DnD, I dont see the promised measuring stick My friend was disappointed the mini's weren't painted, I'm just glad they had some to show. I know my wife is sick of me talking about this, but I cant wait for the pre-order to be here already!
Yeah there was just no way to get them painted in time - they arrived on the thursday and we left on the monday so even shipping them to a painter we'd have not got them back in time for the flight -
Jon did a sterling job assembling 7 sets of the minis and giving them a basic paint job for use in the demos.
usernamesareannoying wrote:ive been trying to get my 13 year old to game with me but cant seem to drag him away from his xbox.
this is the first game that he has come to me and said "now THAT, i would like to play"
good job guys, everything looks great.
i'm looking forward to the preorder.
We're getting a lot of that and also myself and Jon saw a lot of women trying the game and checking out the booth demos - we believe it's going to cross over in to a younger and more varied audience which will get us a lot of new people in to the hobby.
Manchu wrote:TBH I found the GenCon presentation pretty disappointing, as someone who could not be there this year. It appears timing didn't work out for whatever reason in terms of getting the minis show ready. And the game components are otherwise (hopefully) all alpha, except the Red Rocket, is that correct? Most importantly, I don't know anything more about the game now than before. I follow Modiphius on FB and joined the Facebook group for the game, the latter of which is the only reason I could find the pics I posted ITT. It's tough to work the con keeping in mind that what's going on in Indy is just the tip of the iceberg as to who is trying to get info. Would be a good idea to reach out to independent content creators to help, as suggested early on in this thread.
Going forward, I am really looking forward to learning more about the product line in a more coherent way, with the vids noted above.
The Red Rocket was literally a printed paper and hand cut sample - the actual production sample will look much better. Everything else was playtest only componens - the design process is underway for the cards and tokens etc at the moment. Bethesda actually just signed off our design concept for the rulebook.
Yes as mentioned we're producing a lot of videos starting next week when Jon is back from demoing at Insomnia. We can't give materials to other creators yet until we have production sets but we already have a list of reviewers that will be getting the starter sets to work with and that's expanding as time goes on.
Manchu wrote:Thanks for the info JonWebb - is there enough of a minis game in the Star Trek releases to warrant a News & Rumors thread here on Dakka?
Is the FO pre-order for resin only? I am 100% buying the FOWW line, likely the whole line, but am split one whether to go for resin or wait for plastic.
I can tell you we'll be showing off more pics of the star trek minis when Jon is back in the office, it will have a stripped down version of the RPG rules suitable for squad level and hero adventures using the tile sets we've been creating with TNG technical director Rick Sternbach (who's awesome to work with - the stories he can tell....). I'd suggest we kick off the thread with pics of the minis and we can start adding info on the tiles etc?
The FO pre-order is resin only. The PVC set is sometime in the spring - no date yet - there's a LOT of work to do on tooling and whilst the figures have been designed with pvc and resin in mind we need to consider chinese factory timelines. At the moment it's only the starter set in pvc, we may if successful then push the faction expansion sets in to pvc but no guarantees yet.
For all of you - we're already working on the latter half of year 1 releases and have another couple of years in the planning so there's plenty to come and this will be one of the major lines we support - we took on Jon to help us give the love to the wargames side of the business and have around 16 sculptors now working on this, Achtung! Cthulhu, Star Trek and the big John Carter of Mars minis and RPG line kickstarting soon. Gonna be a fun next few months!
Chris, I know you've said you'll eventually get to F1&2 but how are you going to deal with the fact the art assets aren't really as ready to be transformed into miniatures? Will they be remained to fit with the Bethesda style?
Modiphius put up a size comparison of some renders on their homepage:
They also put up pictures of Sturges and an Institute scientist (from the magazine, as discussed earlier), so if you haven't seen these (spoilered for size)
Spoiler:
Is it me or is the Behemoth a little on the small side. Not that I mind. They grow and could come in many different sizes, but I recently ran across one in Fallout 4 and got the impression it was bigger.
Perhaps a bit - wonder if it's a 'practicality vs. accuracy' thing?
You'd have to think 300$+ for a lump of resin that 2 times volume of that Deathclaw there, which I know for one I wouldn't spend as much as I like FO !
Pacific wrote: Perhaps a bit - wonder if it's a 'practicality vs. accuracy' thing?
You'd have to think 300$+ for a lump of resin that 2 times volume of that Deathclaw there, which I know for one I wouldn't spend as much as I like FO !
It's a distinct possibility. I just read up a little on this and apparently Swan is shorter than normal Behemoths. Maybe the Behemoth is scaled to accept conversion parts for Swan?
Sad that I'm no good with editors. It can't be that hard to line up the video game models for scale comparison.
Taarnak wrote: Digital "scale" shot is pretty useless. There are models. Show them for feths sake. And make a scale shot with them. Bonus.
And I thought I wasn't keen on waiting as agonizingly long as "the next couple of weeks".
Huh, it seems they made them use the Super Mutant Behemoths original size rather then what they ended up scaling them to in Fallout 3. (They originally were much smaller, which is why the fire hydrants and shopping carts ended up vastly overscaled as a result)
Psychopomp wrote: Wait...is the Sole Survivor 36mm tall to top of head AFTER adjusting for base height? Holy crap, that won't scale with any of my existing minis...
I'm not putting much weight on the scale shot as it's a render (and because I want it not to be true)
Given the size of the 28mm achtung cuthulu minis I wouldn't have expected the fallout minis at 32mmscale to be that tall, if they are then unfortunately I'm out as they won't fit with my collection.
We've been getting a lot of questions about the previously announced PVC starter and how it's different to the resin set so I added an FAQ over on Boardgamegeek
Looking forward to showing off the models at Gencon next week - come and say hello.
We've been getting a lot of questions about the previously announced PVC starter set so here's a few FAQ's.
Fallout: Wasteland Warfare is designed to appeal to wargamers and miniatures fans alike with it's high quality sculpts, however we realise not everyone wants to break out the glue and stick the arms on, no matter how easy we make it, or how cool the miniature looks after :-)
Q) Will both starter boxes include the same stuff?
We're planning two versions of the starter set, both will include all the same rules components - rules, dice, counters, cards. Each will include a different selection of miniatures - one in high quality resin, the other pre-assembled PVC figures. The PVC set will include more figures and as a result, a different set of scenarios (though we'll make both starter set scenarios available online in PDF)
Q) Will I have to buy the PVC starter set to get all the miniatures?
The PVC starter set will include figures that you can already get in resin. We're not forcing collectors to get this set so they have all the designs. However they will be identical scale so if you want to quickly expand your collection it will be a great way to do it at a very affordable price.
Q) When are they coming out?
The resin starter set is planned for the pre-order whilst the PVC set is planned for February/March
Q)Can I play it straight out of the box?
You can play the PVC starter set straight out of the box as the figures are pre-assembled - we even give you an introductory set of missions to learn the rules. The resin set will need a small amount of assembly but we're making this as easy as possible.
Q) How many players can you have?
Fallout: Wasteland Warfare is designed as a traditional player vs player miniatures game experience. However we're also including solo rules and a solo campaign so you can play on your own, or play co-op with a friend against the game.
Q) What do you do in the game?
It is a miniatures wargame so you'll be fighting each other's forces however we're also drawing on the video game experience so you'll be hacking terminals, searching Nuka Cola machines, rusted Sedans and Vault-Tec Containers either for loot or caps or as part of narrative storylines. You'll be fighting against the wasteland itself as radiation, dust storms and grotesque creatures and robots try to take you down. You can play straight points (caps!) based battles or follow a campaign storyline and slowly evolve your crew with bonuses based on how you upgrade your settlement.
Q) Do I have to buy loads of expansions?
The base set should be enough for plenty of games - regardless of which one you buy, however each expansion will give you more characters or units, from different factions, plus new AI and Encounter cards that will enhance the experience. We'll be uploading free missions online to keep you entertained as well releasing bigger campaign boxed sets that give you lots of new features.
Q) Will the starter sets be available in other languages?
We will be working with localisation partners to bring both the resin and PVC starter sets to France, Germany, Russia, Italy, Spain and more. Realistically with the time it takes for approvals these versions will come out later in the summer 2018
If you have more FAQ's you'd like answered please add them below.
1.) Do you have a more definite date for when the pre-orders will start?
2.) Will you have a cool "all in" pre-order box similar to the Borg Cube?
3.) Will there be flavour text in the scenarios/cards?
4.) Will there be branching story lines/scenarios? And will the choices you make alter the encounter decks? (Something like if you do this remove card 43 and add card 122 to the deck etc.) [/q]
Hi there,
1) We're aiming for end of August, early September - it's 'when it's ready' as we want everything to be sorted first. We're as keen as you are to get it on pre-order.
2) Yes though not quite as big...
3) Yes there will be flavour text, the scenarios will draw on stories from the Fallout games.
4) That sounds more like the planned boardgame. We have quest cards that require different objectives to be met, and lead to cool rewards though this can also affect the in-game wasteland event deck as a result. We also have branching scenarios with narrative missions - depending how one ends will affect the next.
Hope that helps!
or:
1) We're aiming for end of August, early September - it's 'when it's ready' as we want everything to be sorted first. We're as keen as you are to get it on pre-order.
Psychopomp wrote:Wait...is the Sole Survivor 36mm tall to top of head AFTER adjusting for base height? Holy crap, that won't scale with any of my existing minis...
No they are 32mm scale - they will match other 32mm lines and terrain easily.
JoeRugby wrote:
Psychopomp wrote: Wait...is the Sole Survivor 36mm tall to top of head AFTER adjusting for base height? Holy crap, that won't scale with any of my existing minis...
I'm not putting much weight on the scale shot as it's a render (and because I want it not to be true)
Given the size of the 28mm achtung cuthulu minis I wouldn't have expected the fallout minis at 32mmscale to be that tall, if they are then unfortunately I'm out as they won't fit with my collection.
As mentioned by others he is 32mm from base of feet to eyeline which is the standard 32mm scale for a standard human - the terrain base adds a mm or so to the figures heights - the 0mm starts at the flat base of the scenic base on which we've added texture and some build up. We started the 0mm at this line to give a rough guide. Next we'll do the usual comparison shots as I think that will help people out a lot.
JoeRugby wrote:
Vorian wrote: The human figures are 32mm to the eyes - just like they've always said they'd be
The scale shot above does not support that ....
As above the scenic base adds a little to this - but the scenic bases are actually a little thinner than your average plastic round lipped base so they're no taller than if they were standing on one of those.
Psychopomp wrote:Wait...is the Sole Survivor 36mm tall to top of head AFTER adjusting for base height? Holy crap, that won't scale with any of my existing minis...
No they are 32mm scale - they will match other 32mm lines and terrain easily.
JoeRugby wrote:
Psychopomp wrote: Wait...is the Sole Survivor 36mm tall to top of head AFTER adjusting for base height? Holy crap, that won't scale with any of my existing minis...
I'm not putting much weight on the scale shot as it's a render (and because I want it not to be true)
Given the size of the 28mm achtung cuthulu minis I wouldn't have expected the fallout minis at 32mmscale to be that tall, if they are then unfortunately I'm out as they won't fit with my collection.
As mentioned by others he is 32mm from base of feet to eyeline which is the standard 32mm scale for a standard human - the terrain base adds a mm or so to the figures heights - the 0mm starts at the flat base of the scenic base on which we've added texture and some build up. We started the 0mm at this line to give a rough guide. Next we'll do the usual comparison shots as I think that will help people out a lot.
Spoiler:
JoeRugby wrote:
Vorian wrote: The human figures are 32mm to the eyes - just like they've always said they'd be
The scale shot above does not support that ....
As above the scenic base adds a little to this - but the scenic bases are actually a little thinner than your average plastic round lipped base so they're no taller than if they were standing on one of those.
Pics against minis would be awesome thanks, ive been burned in the past so very cautious now days.
It would really help me if you could give/confirm a measurement of how tall Nate/Nora are from foot to the top of his head too
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Huh, it seems they made them use the Super Mutant Behemoths original size rather then what they ended up scaling them to in Fallout 3. (They originally were much smaller, which is why the fire hydrants and shopping carts ended up vastly overscaled as a result)
Interesting thought. Makes sense. I never thought to check the size of the hydrant.
modiphius wrote: Next we'll do the usual comparison shots as I think that will help people out a lot.
Pacific wrote: Perhaps a bit - wonder if it's a 'practicality vs. accuracy' thing?
You'd have to think 300$+ for a lump of resin that 2 times volume of that Deathclaw there, which I know for one I wouldn't spend as much as I like FO !
It's a distinct possibility. I just read up a little on this and apparently Swan is shorter than normal Behemoths. Maybe the Behemoth is scaled to accept conversion parts for Swan?
Sad that I'm no good with editors. It can't be that hard to line up the video game models for scale comparison.
It's a big-ass super mutant! That's all that matters really to me
Thanks for other post about the swan boat MDF! Am already starting to imagine that 'Swan' scenario, where the game could be played around his pond, and he emerges as part of an event card.
I like that the doors and wheels are modular, but I am not sure about the filled-in interior. Hopefully that is just part of the render and the interior cabin is at least hollowed out instead of a hunk of resin inside.
Aeneades wrote: The Facebook comments confirmed that they are working on vehicle rules so the car will be used for more then just scenery.
Exploding.
I wonder if the cars will offer some worthwhile benefit to use as cover knowing that they have the potential to explode. I mean, unless forced to by an objective or scenario win condition, I don't plan on spending much time next to any vehicles in the Fallout game. I've died enough times in the video game from random grenades or missiles impacting near a car I was unaware I was standing near, so much so that I have developed a healthy fear of those rusting hulks. I am bringing that prejudice with me to the table top game.
Looks good. Hardly my favorite vehicle from Fallout 4, but it's good to see there's an undamaged version.
Aeneades wrote: The Facebook comments confirmed that they are working on vehicle rules so the car will be used for more then just scenery.
Nice. I was actually hoping for that. It always struck me as weird that people in Fallout can maintain power armor, but not something as simple as cars. Now if only Modiphius also worked on those dual tracked tanks you occasionally find in Fallout 4...
Aeneades wrote: The Facebook comments confirmed that they are working on vehicle rules so the car will be used for more then just scenery.
Exploding.
I wonder if the cars will offer some worthwhile benefit to use as cover knowing that they have the potential to explode. I mean, unless forced to by an objective or scenario win condition, I don't plan on spending much time next to any vehicles in the Fallout game. I've died enough times in the video game from random grenades or missiles impacting near a car I was unaware I was standing near, so much so that I have developed a healthy fear of those rusting hulks. I am bringing that prejudice with me to the table top game.
If you can't take the heat, don't stand by a car!
Another feature I want in the game. It wouldn't be Fallout without randomly exploding cars.
Currently we can tell a car will grant the same cover benefit as anything else, so it would probably come down to setting up the table to make the players decide whether they want cover that might explode in their face or if they'd rather stand in the open. If the table is set up with plenty of other cover, there's probably no good reason to stand next to a car. Hey, maybe you could lure a Super Mutant into close combat with one of your models next to a car and then explode the car? That would be cool.
Geifer wrote: Another feature I want in the game. It wouldn't be Fallout without randomly exploding cars.
Currently we can tell a car will grant the same cover benefit as anything else, so it would probably come down to setting up the table to make the players decide whether they want cover that might explode in their face or if they'd rather stand in the open. If the table is set up with plenty of other cover, there's probably no good reason to stand next to a car. Hey, maybe you could lure a Super Mutant into close combat with one of your models next to a car and then explode the car? That would be cool.
I believe it was confirmed on Facebook that the cars will explode.
I am hoping the cars are given more thought that just expensive scatter terrain. In the game you can sometimes find cool items in the cars, and since the model has a fusion core shown, perhaps there will be some decent salvage or resource benefit for interacting with the car.
If they just are explosive cover that is fun too. If nothing else it will make maneuvering around a board more interesting to avoid such hazards.
Geifer wrote: Another feature I want in the game. It wouldn't be Fallout without randomly exploding cars.
Currently we can tell a car will grant the same cover benefit as anything else, so it would probably come down to setting up the table to make the players decide whether they want cover that might explode in their face or if they'd rather stand in the open. If the table is set up with plenty of other cover, there's probably no good reason to stand next to a car. Hey, maybe you could lure a Super Mutant into close combat with one of your models next to a car and then explode the car? That would be cool.
I believe it was confirmed on Facebook that the cars will explode.
I am hoping the cars are given more thought that just expensive scatter terrain. In the game you can sometimes find cool items in the cars, and since the model has a fusion core shown, perhaps there will be some decent salvage or resource benefit for interacting with the car.
If they just are explosive cover that is fun too. If nothing else it will make maneuvering around a board more interesting to avoid such hazards.
Cool. I should check Facebook more than once every other month.
Risk/reward is definitely a good thing to have. I've had interesting situations come up in modded Necromunda related to mysterious objectives, including an instance were a player was in a far superior position but lost the game because he was too afraid to risk uncovering most objectives.
It would certainly make sense to have something like that in campaign games. I mean, I find it difficult to make blanket statements because Wasteland Warfare will have different game modes and all the cool little roleplay things that I want to see are probably an unbalancing factor in player versus player games. So yeah, it should be in the game, but it may not be the default if it is. If you know what I mean.
Aeneades wrote: The Facebook comments confirmed that they are working on vehicle rules so the car will be used for more then just scenery.
Exploding.
I wonder if the cars will offer some worthwhile benefit to use as cover knowing that they have the potential to explode. I mean, unless forced to by an objective or scenario win condition, I don't plan on spending much time next to any vehicles in the Fallout game. I've died enough times in the video game from random grenades or missiles impacting near a car I was unaware I was standing near, so much so that I have developed a healthy fear of those rusting hulks. I am bringing that prejudice with me to the table top game.
Yes it doesn't blow immediately on getting hit, and in fact there's likely a chance it won't blow - that's being worked on at the moment.
Geifer wrote: Another feature I want in the game. It wouldn't be Fallout without randomly exploding cars.
Currently we can tell a car will grant the same cover benefit as anything else, so it would probably come down to setting up the table to make the players decide whether they want cover that might explode in their face or if they'd rather stand in the open. If the table is set up with plenty of other cover, there's probably no good reason to stand next to a car. Hey, maybe you could lure a Super Mutant into close combat with one of your models next to a car and then explode the car? That would be cool.
I believe it was confirmed on Facebook that the cars will explode.
I am hoping the cars are given more thought that just expensive scatter terrain. In the game you can sometimes find cool items in the cars, and since the model has a fusion core shown, perhaps there will be some decent salvage or resource benefit for interacting with the car.
We're certainly looking at involving all the terrain in the gameplay so nuka cola machines and vehicles could be part of the objectives but also searchable. I'll confirm more about that later
Paladin Dense is (or was at the time) submitted for approval, which is obviously, undoubtedly and undeniably yawnworthy.
There was another confirmation that there will be Curie, which will be interesting to see because unlike pretty much any other companion, she comes with a generic wastelander outfit and wouldn't stand out in a crowd. Makes me wonder if they'll do anything about that.
But most importantly:
Regarding miniatures, again by way of Official Modiphius Facebook Page, it has been confirmed that miniatures will be available individually if purchased directly from the store page. However, no information was given regarding whether or not this would apply to every single miniature, or just figures of note. Here’s what they said, “There will be sets with unit, gear and AI cards and we will do solo minis direct from our store.”
Sets of cards for purchase separately, in addition to what will come with miniatures. Am I reading that right? Because that would be good.
It may just be me, but one of the big reasons I like to have everything in one big book is that I'm terribly worried about losing cards. Or misplacing them. Or getting the deck in dire disorder. Or any other reasonably unlikely but vastly overestimated dark fate that may befall cards.
I'd really love to be able to buy spares, just to calm my mind.
Edit: Also, good to see game elements aren't separated as I feared. I prefer a single rule set (governing one or more game modes) over a selection of rule sets depending on game mode.
There was another confirmation that there will be Curie, which will be interesting to see because unlike pretty much any other companion, she comes with a generic wastelander outfit and wouldn't stand out in a crowd. Makes me wonder if they'll do anything about that.
But most importantly:
Regarding miniatures, again by way of Official Modiphius Facebook Page, it has been confirmed that miniatures will be available individually if purchased directly from the store page. However, no information was given regarding whether or not this would apply to every single miniature, or just figures of note. Here’s what they said, “There will be sets with unit, gear and AI cards and we will do solo minis direct from our store.”
Sets of cards for purchase separately, in addition to what will come with miniatures. Am I reading that right? Because that would be good.
It may just be me, but one of the big reasons I like to have everything in one big book is that I'm terribly worried about losing cards. Or misplacing them. Or getting the deck in dire disorder. Or any other reasonably unlikely but vastly overestimated dark fate that may befall cards.
I'd really love to be able to buy spares, just to calm my mind.
Edit: Also, good to see game elements aren't separated as I feared. I prefer a single rule set (governing one or more game modes) over a selection of rule sets depending on game mode.
With separate minis we're still looking at logistics there it's much easier just to get everything packed in boxes but I know there will be a demand for certain minis so we'll try to do what we can. It maybe we can't keep every model in stock on it's own - as then you have a HUGE range of models and have to keep stock of those as well as the boxed sets. If demand is high for the boxed sets it might not be possibly initially just so we can keep up with the orders. Watch this space on that one. Re cards we would have spares and there will be sets of cards available separately but you can also contact us if you've lost or damaged a card and we can organise specific replacements.
And yeah, I did mean (synth) Curie. I mean, as a robot she's a Mr. Handy/Mr. Gutsy/ Ms. Nanny with a specific paint job, so that's that. But as a synth, when you get her, she wears (thanks wikia article ) a flannel shirt and jeans which is a common clothing item. By comparison, Piper has her very own red coat paired with a newsboy cap for a distinct appearance not found anywhere else in the game. Danse has T-60 power armor with a paladin paint job. Garvey has a colonial duster otherwise only available from merchants so effectively it's his unique look, too. There's everyone's favorite mechanical detective and there's MacCready with his specific outfit.
You can tell all of these apart very easily, even if you put them next to NPCs from the same faction. You put Curie next to any old female settler, you wouldn't be able to tell a difference if you didn't know she's a companion.
And yeah, I did mean (synth) Curie. I mean, as a robot she's a Mr. Handy/Mr. Gutsy/ Ms. Nanny with a specific paint job, so that's that. But as a synth, when you get her, she wears (thanks wikia article ) a flannel shirt and jeans which is a common clothing item. By comparison, Piper has her very own red coat paired with a newsboy cap for a distinct appearance not found anywhere else in the game. Danse has T-60 power armor with a paladin paint job. Garvey has a colonial duster otherwise only available from merchants so effectively it's his unique look, too. There's everyone's favorite mechanical detective and there's MacCready with his specific outfit.
You can tell all of these apart very easily, even if you put them next to NPCs from the same faction. You put Curie next to any old female settler, you wouldn't be able to tell a difference if you didn't know she's a companion.
And yeah, I did mean (synth) Curie. I mean, as a robot she's a Mr. Handy/Mr. Gutsy/ Ms. Nanny with a specific paint job, so that's that. But as a synth, when you get her, she wears (thanks wikia article ) a flannel shirt and jeans which is a common clothing item. By comparison, Piper has her very own red coat paired with a newsboy cap for a distinct appearance not found anywhere else in the game. Danse has T-60 power armor with a paladin paint job. Garvey has a colonial duster otherwise only available from merchants so effectively it's his unique look, too. There's everyone's favorite mechanical detective and there's MacCready with his specific outfit.
You can tell all of these apart very easily, even if you put them next to NPCs from the same faction. You put Curie next to any old female settler, you wouldn't be able to tell a difference if you didn't know she's a companion.
I imagine they might give Curie a labcoat.
As long as they don't use any of the ludicrous "slutty nurse" efforts from the Nexus
And yeah, I did mean (synth) Curie. I mean, as a robot she's a Mr. Handy/Mr. Gutsy/ Ms. Nanny with a specific paint job, so that's that. But as a synth, when you get her, she wears (thanks wikia article ) a flannel shirt and jeans which is a common clothing item. By comparison, Piper has her very own red coat paired with a newsboy cap for a distinct appearance not found anywhere else in the game. Danse has T-60 power armor with a paladin paint job. Garvey has a colonial duster otherwise only available from merchants so effectively it's his unique look, too. There's everyone's favorite mechanical detective and there's MacCready with his specific outfit.
You can tell all of these apart very easily, even if you put them next to NPCs from the same faction. You put Curie next to any old female settler, you wouldn't be able to tell a difference if you didn't know she's a companion.
I imagine they might give Curie a labcoat.
As long as they don't use any of the ludicrous "slutty nurse" efforts from the Nexus
Well, it would look distinct...
But Curie looks better in black anyway, wearing a fashionable courser uniform.
Nostromodamus wrote: I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person who kept Curie as a Ms. Handy...
Maybe. Can Mrs. Handy Curie fall in love with your character? I got Curie a synth body because I thought that was necessary to get her companion perk, but now I am not sure.
A flamer and a couple of frags works wonders against pests, too. If you prepare and are willing to quickload once or twice, you don't have to put up with mole rat disease and can save the kid.
Nostromodamus wrote: I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person who kept Curie as a Ms. Handy...
I was never happy with having a flying trash can around that constantly bumps into me, doesn't fit through doorways or tight spaces, charges right into your firing line, gets in the way all the time, sneaks even worse than the rest of the bumbling brigade...
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why I even bother bringing companions along.
All four are just generic Minutemen. Preston was revealed a while back you can see him part way through the page here - http://www.modiphius.com/fallout.html
The thing I like most about those models is, unlike the people who made the bloody game and wrote the lore in the first place, you're actually bothering to stick to it and they all have Laser Muskets
Yodhrin wrote: The thing I like most about those models is, unlike the people who made the bloody game and wrote the lore in the first place, you're actually bothering to stick to it and they all have Laser Muskets
Come on! Who can outfit an entire posse with laser muskets? In this economy? Seriously.
It is a good thing, though. Plus, ideally we get settlers and if the thing about upgrade sprues is true, we'll have plenty of ability to outfit part-timers to mix in with full Minutemen.
And then we'll send off the general to help out those settlements by himself while we kick back and enjoy a beer. Yay!
Email just went out with the text and images from the 5th dev blog - more an update on pre-order progress, a scale update to the Behemoth, an alternate Dogmeat and an initial list of products for the pre-order. You can also check it out at http://www.modiphius.com/development-blog.html but I'm sure someone will post soon enough otherwise :-)
modiphius wrote: Email just went out with the text and images from the 5th dev blog - more an update on pre-order progress, a scale update to the Behemoth, an alternate Dogmeat and an initial list of products for the pre-order. You can also check it out at http://www.modiphius.com/development-blog.html but I'm sure someone will post soon enough otherwise :-)
I guess....
So:
DEVELOPMENT BLOG #6: Pre-Order Update
18th Sept. 2017. Here's an update on progress towards the much anticipated pre-order plus a preview of the first character expansion for the Survivors which includes a more experienced Sole Survivor (you can use the male or female figure with the card), Codsworth and Dogmeat with goggles and bandana! The scale of the Behemoth has also been updated - he's quite a monster now! Click on the images to enlarge them!
All the models for Wave 1 and about 50% of Wave 2 are approved, the starter box cover art is approved, the only thing holding back the pre-order now is some costings from factories. We want the best price for everyone and if we rush we could get it wrong and that doesn't help anyone. The whole of wave 1 is 3d printed or being 3d printed right now as masters for the production process. We have done test production which you've seen in the photos of GenCon and now Jon our wargame manager is better (he had to go to hospital whilst demoing at Insomnia in the UK so truly was hurting for the hobby) we'll be doing some videos this week to show off how the rules work. The rules are now with the editor so they're complete and we're just working on final stats and balancing. The dice are going to production this week as the longest lead time and we're currently getting the design of the cards and counters approved, the rulebook layout design has been approved. Final testing and dev work is happening on the settlement building and solo gameplay as well as scenario writing.
Bethesda has given the go ahead for the pre-order as soon as we're ready so it's all about the costs at this moment. This is a mix of UK resin production, cardboard packaging, China production on dice, cards and counter sheets, UK production on rulebooks and bringing them all together to be packed and shipped. As you can imagine that is a logistical mind maze but we've got a good team on it. We'll aim to get some videos in the meantime so you can start getting to grips with how the game plays but bear with us and we'll get that pre-order going.
Below you'll find a list of what products we have planned for the pre-order - we're aiming to give you the option of picking up everything from wave 1 which is the first 2-3 months releases. There will be some special bonuses for pre-ordering - some special bundle deals and for those who go all in a familiar but special character with unit and gear cards (and perhaps some other bonuses). With pre-order bonuses they are NOT exclusive - you'll be able to get them on the next pre-order or at special events like conventions we attend etc. I want to make sure it's special but everyone has a chance to get them no matter where you are, and no one misses out.
The plan is to do a big pre-order for each Wave so you can get in early, get some deals and get your order early so if you want to, you can support your local community and stores. It looks like we'll be shipping in January (being realistic with the number of different products we'll be producing for the pre-order), and you can pre-order from us soon, or from your local gaming store from around November. We'll be shipping into retail in late Feb or March so this will give those people involved in the demo team time to paint up their collections to help support their local stores. Remember to click the sign up to the Vault Dwellers demo team top right if you want to be involved.
There will be a Vault map so you can find the nearest store that is stocking or running demos and encouraging stores to get themselves on the map. Stores will get access to pre-order bonuses, we'll be giving them lots of support and there will be organised play kits.
We're aiming for the Pre-order to include the following items. There maybe some changes still and some items added in so use this as a rough guide, in particular some of the creatures, scenery and robots may be available separately outside of the retail sets.
Two Player Starter Set
Sole Survivor Character Set
Brotherhood of Steel Faction Set
Brotherhood of Steel Character Set
The Survivors Faction Set
The Survivors Character Set
Super Mutants Faction Set
Super Mutants Character Set
Wasteland Scenery Set
Wasteland Creature Set #1
Wasteland Robots Set #1
Red Rocket Scenery Set
Red Rocket Gaming Mat
Settlement Expansion Deck
Acrylic Tokens Set Upgrade Set
Acrylic Measuring Stick Upgrade Set
Nuka Cola Bottle Cap Set
Wasteland Modding Sprue
Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed that Raiders aren't also in the first wave. They're a good iconic post-apoc, much less Fallout, faction and they'd be a great opposition to Survivors in the way Brotherhood and Supermutants are good opposition.
Psychopomp wrote: Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed that Raiders aren't also in the first wave. They're a good iconic post-apoc, much less Fallout, faction and they'd be a great opposition to Survivors in the way Brotherhood and Supermutants are good opposition.
While I wouldn't consider it disappointment on my part, I agree the post-apocalyptic wasteland is a bit dull until Raiders make an appearance.
Hopefully Survivors are versatile enough as a stand-in until we get proper Raiders.
Arbitrator wrote: I'm expecting a lot of BoS vs BoS games to be happening more than anything else.
I suspect you're right, at least until Enclave is released and we'll get lots of BoS versus Enclave battles.
4's Raider factions are either very generic or very specific. Though I would love to have The Gunners for generic, then you'd have the Forged, the Rust Devils, and the Gangster dudes.
They have to be realistic in terms of production sucks to wait but better that then have it released but you can't get stock like ffg has been guilty of so often.
4's Raider factions are either very generic or very specific. Though I would love to have The Gunners for generic, then you'd have the Forged, the Rust Devils, and the Gangster dudes.
Then finally you have the Nuka World ones.
Nuka World seems like it should be its own expansion. There are the gangs, plus all of the variant creatures in that park that could easily fill a release wave.
For raiders I'd like a mix of generic and Gunners.
I'd love some Rust Devils, but they wouldn't feel right without their highly customized robot assets, so that seems like a larger investment of resources to produce the Rust Devils and either new robot models or conversion bits to modify existing designs.
I'd be happy having generic Raiders first. Having the bits available to cut up and convert any other model goes a long way towards a diverse Raider force.
But obviously getting the different gangs, too, would be good.
Yeah, start with the generic 'leathers and ramshackle gear' raiders that we see across the franchise. They're the most universal bad guys in all the wastelands we've seen.
Hopefully Modiphius will see the value of a high quality, generic raider force. I'm sure part of the reason the Northstar plastics for Frostgrave have been so popular is because they have such versatility (the Cultists etc.) beyond that game.
Some post-apoc scum would be brilliant for stuff like This is not a Test, not to mention be great for the forthcoming Necromunda re-launch.
Hopefully this holds sway over the kind of post you get (not necessarily here) which reads "In Fallout 2, if you played on a 486-CPU machine with 8MB RAM and lowest resolution option, then shot a Brahmin cow in the top east corner of the map with an Uzi (but don't kill the cow) then it triggers an easter egg where a group of Dutch midgets wearing dungarees and aviators appears. Unless this faction appears then I'm sorry to say that my wallet will stay closed,"
Pacific wrote: Hopefully this holds sway over the kind of post you get (not necessarily here) which reads "In Fallout 2, if you played on a 486-CPU machine with 8MB RAM and lowest resolution option, then shot a Brahmin cow in the top east corner of the map with an Uzi (but don't kill the cow) then it triggers an easter egg where a group of Dutch midgets wearing dungarees and aviators appears. Unless this faction appears then I'm sorry to say that my wallet will stay closed,"
Hi there here's an example of the pre-production T60 with render comparison. Bear in mind these are not final production but run off with quick test moulds just before GenCon. The gatling laser has a bend in it which is being re-printed for production.
Agree I guess it's the danger of having a blog-type approach to releasing snippets of info, not everything is studio quality, although you can see the detail level there still (despite the slightly blurry photo) - which is the main thing!
That's honestly blurry? Wow, now you make me question whether I'm seeing straight.
Mostly I'm just happy to see an actual model at all, even if it's a test print that's not entirely reflective of the actual product.
I thought the armor came out pretty nicely. Lines are straight and detail is crisp. I like it. The BoS badge looks off. That's something I wondered about from the beginning. It's a really tiny symbol that works fine on the render, but when you have to cast it? Going to be interesting how that turns out.
Time to bust out another pose of the Protectron! We are REALLY close to the preorder now! There will be a Wasteland Robot set which includes a selection of robots to keep your survivors busy!
More interesting to me is that we're REALLY close to the preorder. I mean, I'm not saying I'm impatient or anything, but are we there yet?
Good news for me that robots get a release right away. They're a staple as far as I'm concerned and the sooner we can get our hands on them, the better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also another two posts by Chris Birch on Facebook:
We're recording the first of several videos today, please post some questions you'd like answered below and we'll do our best to cover them over the coming days
We're now playtesting Fallout: Wasteland Warfare army building and points balance - if you have experience of playtesting, can test weekly with your group where you live and would like to be part of the on-going army building playtest you can sign up here:
All the models that I've seen so far the renders and what not look like they've been pull from FO4, but those ghouls are bad, they look like mole people without lower jaws not radiation fallout zombies. The hands look big too like they are wearing mittens. Hancock looks pretty awesome in comparison. The synths look the most like the game in my opinion.
I think the Rad Scorpion is close the FO4 which looked more Bark Scorpion and Emperor Scorpion combined rather than just Emperor Scorpion like in FO3
Keep in mind guys, those are Feral Ghouls, and Mophidius are using the newer FO4 visual design - those are actually pretty close to the misshapen lumpymen in the latest game.
Exactly. I preferred the Fallout 3 design and am not a fan at all of the makeover they received, but there's no question that these renders are true to the Ferals in Fallout 4.
I'll probably paint these exclusively as the charred version (see spoiler) with a glowing one or two thrown in.
Well, I find it understandable. As I said, I don't care for the Fallout 4 version of Feral model. To me they don't look radiation damaged so much as submerged in water for too long. Especially the bloated and folded necks. When I played I got the impression they looked the part with specific lighting, but in bright sunlight or powerful lamp light, the deeper recesses got washed out and left little more than a flesh bag (possibly with some rags.
I'm actually getting much the same impression from these renders as you do, because they are pretty plain and lack depth. Once painted and caked in dirt or charred as I'm planning, or both, I think they'll look much better.
Plus there's always the final stage to making good zombies, drenching them in blood.
Yodhrin wrote: Keep in mind guys, those are Feral Ghouls, and Mophidius are using the newer FO4 visual design - those are actually pretty close to the misshapen lumpymen in the latest game.
It is a fair point, but the models themselves are still atrocious in my opinion. I hope these are sold just as a Ferals pack and not lumped into a pack with other figures I'll want because I have no desire paying money for these, and I love your term, "misshapen lumpymen."
9.30 into the vid - looks like the special Pip-boy set in the background there?
A couple of notes I've taken from the vid.
Firstly, the scenario setup looks like some kind of Post-apoc Gumtree furniture trade gone wrong?!
- Alternative actions: 2 actions (move, shoot, skill, or repetition of each) - similar to Infinity, although each unit has one action rather than an order pool that can be used on whomever. You can choose to hold back an activation and let an opponent take theirs first.
Heroes can do a heroic action based on a VATS dice, however this is a 'quick' action and has a negative modifier to that action.
- Luck effect is a flick of a coin (or you can roll a dice) for certain events, such as someone on fire continuing to be on fire, or to modify a dice role.
Units can also have a set number of luck points at the start of the game - seems like it works a little bit like the fate points in Talisman, where you can spend them once and then they are gone from the game. You can also use luck to negate effects used against you (just hit on the dice roll? You can use luck to modify and if successful you could move the dice total by one, and therefore have it just miss)
- Movement sticks have both the measurement itself and inch increments. The set comes with die-cut card ones, although in the demo game they are using some fancy-looking acrylic ones which I assume will be an optional buy. Base size has an effect as it's 'front to back' measurement - which means larger base units can move further. I guess this works in the sense that someone like Usain Bolt can run faster than Jack Black.
- 63 different weapons in wave 1(!)
Different effects dice for different types of effects. You have a master 'accuracy' die that needs to score a value or below (again like Infinity, although with base 10). You then have dice that add other effects according to the weapon stats. For example in the vid a laser rifle can have an additional effect that sets the target on fire or goes through their armour, other weapons like an assault rifle can improve the accuracy role etc. This makes me think of the Descent boardgame rule, again a nice idea.
Again like Infinity, you have to be up against/covering terrain to get the effects from cover
- There are different game modes, such as battle mode (which has points matching), and a narrative mode. Not sure if the event cards are only in the latter one?
For points matching, as units such as BoS have such good armour and weapons they are correspondingly very expensive - estimating around 5 BoS to 16 raiders(!)
A couple of notes I've taken from the vid.
Firstly, the scenario setup looks like some kind of Post-apoc Gumtree furniture trade gone wrong?!
I've been having a lot of fun messing about with the Battle Systems sets. The three buildings on the table for these videos are my latest experiments with larger buildings and removable roofs. Its a really flexible system and good fun to tinker with.
Fighting over burned out sofas is just fun right?
- Alternative actions: 2 actions (move, shoot, skill, or repetition of each) - similar to Infinity, although each unit has one action rather than an order pool that can be used on whomever. You can choose to hold back an activation and let an opponent take theirs first.
Heroes can do a heroic action based on a VATS dice, however this is a 'quick' action and has a negative modifier to that action.
We will be doing specific videos breaking down the different mechanics, so expect clarification of some of the bits we brushed over today (as well as proper close ups of cards etc, showing how you know what it all is and what it all does).
- Luck effect is a flick of a coin (or you can roll a dice) for certain events, such as someone on fire continuing to be on fire, or to modify a dice role.
Units can also have a set number of luck points at the start of the game - seems like it works a little bit like the fate points in Talisman, where you can spend them once and then they are gone from the game. You can also use luck to negate effects used against you (just hit on the dice roll? You can use luck to modify and if successful you could move the dice total by one, and therefore have it just miss)
Luck has four uses.
1 - flip to take 2 off a roll (turn a close miss in to a close hit)
2 - flip to add 2 to an enemy roll (the reverse of the above)
3 - flip to add one extra critical point on a successful hit (lets you build up your crit meter on a weapon faster)
4 - flip to ignore one point of damage on a successful enemy hit (keeps you in the game longer)
- Movement sticks have both the measurement itself and inch increments. The set comes with die-cut card ones, although in the demo game they are using some fancy-looking acrylic ones which I assume will be an optional buy. Base size has an effect as it's 'front to back' measurement - which I guess means larger base units can move further.
The acrylic measuring sticks will indeed be an optional purchase. These designs are not the final ones, but they give some indication of what to expect.
- 63 different weapons in wave 1(!)
Different effects dice for different types of effects. You have a master 'accuracy' die that needs to score a value or below (again like Infinity, although with base 10). You then have dice that add other effects according to the weapon stats. For example in the vid a laser rifle can have an additional effect that sets the target on fire or goes through their armour, other weapons like an assault rifle can improve the accuracy role etc. This makes me think of the Descent boardgame rule, again a nice idea.
Again like Infinity, you have to be up against/covering terrain to get the effects from cover
Spot on. We will again showcase the differences with the four effects dice soon, but basically
Green - more accuracy
Yellow - more armour penetration
Black - more damage
Purple - cool things happen
This gives us a lot more flexibility with weapons, as we can do way more than just add an extra point of damage etc, as we have the randomness of the dice, but the ability to tailor the odds by choosing what bonuses you get. EG: A weapon with lots of green tends to hit more, while a weapon with lots of black tends to do more damage when it does hit.
With regard to scenery, you still get the benefit even if you are not B2B, if the line of sight is traced through the scenery from centre to centre of the two models, however if you are B2B with a piece of scenery, you ignore it when shooting over it.
- There are different game modes, such as battle mode (which has points matching), and a narrative mode. Not sure if the event cards are only in the latter one?
For points matching, as units such as BoS have such good armour and weapons they are correspondingly very expensive - estimating around 5 BoS to 16 raiders(!)
Battle mode will be a little less narrative, so event cards and so forth will likely not be in that mode to start (but we will be evolving the system as we move forward with the community, so you never know if we make it a thing in the future). I prefer to have as much control as possible in game, when it comes to competitive, so would feel frustrated if a random card flip ruined my tournament run (I'm perfectly capable of losing games under my own steam )
Narrative mode is the default setting, and that is where you will have the flexibility and the most "Fallout" in terms of events, settlements and wandering Deathclaws
However, the organised play will focus on both modes, as they serve two different audiences and let us do fun things with a light focus shift. Story driven campaign weekends are very much on our list of things we want to make happen with the game, as well as straight up swiss style competitive events.
Brilliant - many thanks for taking the time to write up those clarifications JonWebb!
The vid definitely gave a good impression of how the game plays - I love the level of granularity with the weapons, but also the fact that you can add some tactical thinking into even something like the outcome of a shot. Not something you get in many games, but I suppose the great thing about a skirmish is that you can go into that level of detail!
Is that furniture scatter terrain in the videos stuff that will be available with the game, or is it 3rd party stuff? I'm atrocious at terrain, so a few bits and pieces like that would be very handy.
On a random Fallout note, the original game is free on Steam today, in case anyone didn't know.
More interesting to me is that we're REALLY close to the preorder. I mean, I'm not saying I'm impatient or anything, but are we there yet?
Good news for me that robots get a release right away. They're a staple as far as I'm concerned and the sooner we can get our hands on them, the better.
Are they doing a kickstarter or pre order from their website, did they discuss that?
Nice. I should probably have watched the videos when I wasn't half asleep, but I have a really good feeling about the rules. Kind of like when I watched a Bolt Action video and afterwards felt I was ready to actually play the game.
The only thing I don't care for is adding the base width to the movement, because I usually disagree with the manufacturer on what size looks good for any given model.
More interesting to me is that we're REALLY close to the preorder. I mean, I'm not saying I'm impatient or anything, but are we there yet?
Good news for me that robots get a release right away. They're a staple as far as I'm concerned and the sooner we can get our hands on them, the better.
Are they doing a kickstarter or pre order from their website, did they discuss that?
As has been said, it's a pre-order. And what's even better, according to Chris Birch's post on Facebook that accompanied the videos yesterday, "Preorder is confirmed for next week!"
Geifer wrote: As has been said, it's a pre-order. And what's even better, according to Chris Birch's post on Facebook that accompanied the videos yesterday, "Preorder is confirmed for next week!"
That's good to hear, patience isn't one of my virtues.
I actually just heard that the pre-order was up on a podcast, but I think they were confused and were talking about the board game.
It's understandable for Star Trek which is an RPG with accessories. For Fallout I'm inclined to agree. You shouldn't skip pictures of miniatures when you're releasing a miniature game.
That said, the use of preproduction models, tokens and dice in the video and the delayed preorder start (at least from the initial prediction) suggests that the miniatures simply weren't ready on time. I believe it's been said that models are currently being painted and will be presented when they're ready.
Trust me guys, I'm as keen as you to show off the minis!
We have them in the hands of painters, and as they come back in, we will be showing them off in a big way.
Painted Star Trek minis will also soon arrive on my desk and immediately be put in the hands of our photographer Sal.
The project is a big one with a lot of moving parts, but I've been yelling for minis all along, as lets face it, its what many of us are here for right?
As we continue to expand into minis, then this will all become a lot more polished/timely, I've only been with the company for three months, so still getting things up to speed on the minis front.
Expect to see plenty of minis love going forward, and get ready for that pre-order.
Hmmmm...well, yesterday's tomorrow is today, especially across the pond where you're 5 hours in the future. I don't see any signs of the pre-order yet. Do we know a rough time, yet?
(or perhaps because FFG has just put their boardgame up for pre-order, can't have that getting too much of a head start even if they're not really comparable)
Annoyingly some of the bundled items (e.g. Wasteland creatures, scenery) do not contain all of the contents of the individual packs and these are the packs included in the bundles.
Completely put me off. I either wait for retail and for the discounts to take them down to more sensible levels, or just stick with This is Not a Test and get any Wasteland Warfare stuff at special sales or clearance.
As an aside, for me to be put off this product takes a LOT. I have been a massive Fallout fan ever since the first game released and a tabletop Fallout game has been a desire of mine since the 90's. I just simply cannot justify paying those flying rodent gak crazy asking prices.
Yep. It's £700 for complete set with a preorder bonus model but to actually get the missing scenery and wasteland creatures means ordering seperately and brings the amount to around £850.
Yep I'm out for now. The Two Player Starter Set isn't too bad at $79.99 for 12 miniatures. The problem is I have no idea what future stuff will be packaged as, if they will be packaged. All the other packages are 2-Player Starter + Expansion (basically). Would have preferred to see just Two-Player Starter and then add-on expansions. Visually was just sticker shock though. Without knowing the pros and cons for different factions, what I need of what I am not going to jump in a All In either.
It's a shame as I really want to support them as they are making a real effort to make the game solo friendly but missing items annoys me (most likely more than it should, pet peace of mine) and worried the higher than expected cost may put some people off and was really hoping for a local gaming scene.
To be honest, the price per model seems mostly fair, with a few exceptions. Clocking it at £40 for the 8 model sets and £20-25 for the 3-4 model expansions, it's clocking in at somewhere between Infinity, Malifaux and old Batman prices, which isn't that bad for licensed and resin models.
I do wonder if they'd have been better off cutting the faction starters down to half the models/price; £40 is a significant buy-in to a skirmish even if that does give you a good chunk of what you need for a faction; as someone just in it for the models, the smaller expansion sets are more enticing, it might be more per model but it's less to drop in one go, more in line with what I'd expect from a 'starter' for a game like this that you can then build on.
Most of the models themselves look good, and there's quite a large range for a launch of a new game. I was thinking we'd see Institute at launch seeing as they've already shown quite a few of their models, and I find it strange that X6-88 is bundled with Cait and Piper, I'd have expected him to be in an Institute character pack rather than sold with two characters who he's morally opposite. Speaking of characters, Danse and Cait don't look great, but the rest are decent.
The scenery seems way too expensive, but I feel that way about most scenery. I appreciate it is a big chunk of resin for stuff like the Corvega car.
The biggest concern is the shipping date, I thought it'd been mentioned they were aiming to have this stuff out for Christmas. Hope there's not any trouble behind the scenes holding it back. Still, means I have time for other stuff now, I'm actually glad that Shadespire, Necromunda, Fallout and BMG 2.0 aren't coming out within the space of a couple of months!
Got to agree with Paradigm, while it's a huge price tag for a complete(ish) set, the price per resin model is fair. I frequently buy resin models at comparable prices. As said, it's a licensed product, and considering this it's not that bad.
Well, I'm good to my word though and I don't feel bad about it, so it's the big complete set for me. So long, money. We had lots of fun together, but now it's time to part.
At this point I'd like to thank everyone who voted for Britain to leave the EU. You made this purchase possible.
Someone has just pointed out that the starter set is actually pvc according to the description. I am assuming that's a mistake as Chris did say that this set was resin with larger pvc starter next year.
From what I can see, the starter set is preassembled PVC, the 'Two-player Starter Set Models: Collector's Resin Set' is the starter models in actual resin.
Paradigm wrote: From what I can see, the starter set is preassembled PVC, the 'Two-player Starter Set Models: Collector's Resin Set' is the starter models in actual resin.
Ima make the assumption that the resin models set only comes with models and not everything else needed to play then.
Hmm tough choice.
do i go painters route and not care about the game or do i get the game and have a bunch of PVC i dont care about.
We decided to go with pre-assembled PVC to get the price of the starter set down for everyone - if it had been resin it would have been closer to £80, and would have been less figures, we've also been able to add in the Deathclaw. However the resin upgrade set allows those who prefer resin to ensure they can get those particular figures in resin.
Feels like a bit of a cop out since literally every single expansion and kit outside of the starter is resin, I was excited to play it in a couple months, there is 0 way I am going to order 6 months out from the U.K.. Good thing This is not a Test exists.
Prices are high but that's pretty understandable. Resin is very labor intensive and can get real expensive real fast, especially for multi part or dynamic models and even more especially if you are paying someone else to make them for you rather than doing it yourself.
PVC is also pricey, at least if you are going with minimum amounts like 1000 copies, because the mold costs are so high, it's really only worth it if you're able to produce tons of stuff.
I think everything looks great and I love fallout but I'm gonna have to pass for now. I might look into it later on though when I get more spare cash to play with.
Necros wrote: Prices are high but that's pretty understandable. Resin is very labor intensive and can get real expensive real fast, especially for multi part or dynamic models and even more especially if you are paying someone else to make them for you rather than doing it yourself.
PVC is also pricey, at least if you are going with minimum amounts like 1000 copies, because the mold costs are so high, it's really only worth it if you're able to produce tons of stuff.
I think everything looks great and I love fallout but I'm gonna have to pass for now. I might look into it later on though when I get more spare cash to play with.
It makes sense
Though i REALLY wish they had an option for starter set with resin instead of PVC for that 80 pound price point.
Well that's all far to expensive to look at seriously for me anymore for PVC. I was not exactly impressed at the quality of the one actual model we've seen. Not worth whats essentially a premium price. That Deathclaw if done right is cool though. I agree about the melty ghouls. dunno why beth can't just follow the fallout lore about stuff like this. Still better than the goofy looking FO3 ones though.
Also watching the first turn video makes two things clear to me. Companies like this should look to a you-tuber working in this area to demo their game. Too much cross-talk and half explaining/back tracking made the video hard to follow mechanics wise.
Nostromodamus wrote: Some of these things are just baffling. $34 for a fething Corvega? $20 for 4 barrels? $34 for 6 Ghouls?
Gotta love the BoS "core box" that has 6 mooks and ONE suit of power armour in it. Oh yeah, $54 please.
HIGHLY disappointed....
I agree, the pricing is disappointing. $34 for a single piece resin car seems like a lot. I guess the plans for having the interior included fell through, too. I am further left scratching my head when the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot are both cheaper than the scatter terrain car.
Also, Cait, one of the figures I was most looking forward to, has an awful face sculpt and a XBOX HUGE shotgun. Bleh.
Ouch, more expensive than I thought it was going to be.
Trying to figure out now if I want to get one of the big bundles or just get the starter set and add a bunch of individual stuff I want. I'm not sure what kind of discount there is with the big bundles.
Trying to figure out now if I want to get one of the big bundles or just get the starter set and add a bunch of individual stuff I want. I'm not sure what kind of discount there is with the big bundles.
Trying to figure out now if I want to get one of the big bundles or just get the starter set and add a bunch of individual stuff I want. I'm not sure what kind of discount there is with the big bundles.
its like 20 pounds off.
But at the same time there are no real options.
its great if you have a specific set you want.
The big bundle is also only good if you don't mind not getting the full packs of Deathclaws, Radroaches, vaultech crates, consoles and Nuca cola vending machines as you end up having to rebuy sets otherwise which gets very costly, very quickly.
I am surprised that there are not more pre-order incentives. The Star Trek preorder campaign had stretch goals which unlocked two additional exclusive models to the big bundle.
Best thing to do is to wait for the AVP prices when this stuff starts rotting on the shelves.
Local shops are having some serious fire sales with the laods of excessive gear that is sitting on the shelves gathering dust. This is all games. COnversation is down to the issue that the industry is inching towards a "Breaking Point".
And By and By, in relation to the trends- if anyone wants some good priced GW or Warmachine stuff, give me a holler, my shops are having a glut on their hands, and don't know what to do about it.
They are selling them by sprues, or army....
YMMV, but I am in suspicion that this issue is going to start cropping up across the "Community", as people try to get in on this one and get to the door and decide they don't want to commit.
This companies "Star Trek" game is in the same boat. 8 guys for over 50 bucks and more insane price structures...Modiphius has no idea that they are on the chopping block when they do this to the customer, and if it continues, they will be out of business this year, because they are pushing more to make these products and gut themselves on license, then they will in gaining players and sales.
Take note, same issue happened to Mongoose, and I see the same trend emerging.
Aeneades wrote:Someone has just pointed out that the starter set is actually pvc according to the description. I am assuming that's a mistake as Chris did say that this set was resin with larger pvc starter next year.
Yes we weren't happy with the pricing on the resin starter (with all the overseas production required for dice, counters, cards etc so decided to go the hardened pvc route to give better value for money, cheaper price and means we're better able to get stock out there. It also means a pre-assembled starter set to get more people in to the hobby quickly.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote: Some of these things are just baffling. $34 for a fething Corvega? $20 for 4 barrels? $34 for 6 Ghouls?
Gotta love the BoS "core box" that has 6 mooks and ONE suit of power armour in it. Oh yeah, $54 please.
HIGHLY disappointed....
I agree, the pricing is disappointing. $34 for a single piece resin car seems like a lot. I guess the plans for having the interior included fell through, too. I am further left scratching my head when the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot are both cheaper than the scatter terrain car.
Also, Cait, one of the figures I was most looking forward to, has an awful face sculpt and a XBOX HUGE shotgun. Bleh.
Waiting for retail.
Yes the covega is a huge piece of resin - that really pushes up production costs. The BoS suit is balanced well - you need a good mixture of soldiers in combat armour, Scribes who can do hacking, and the T60 is very powerful - especially with the Gatling laser which is an insane weapon. Remember the T60 is a BIG figure on a 40mm base. This all pushes up the costs and we include a whole set of BoS themed cards - from units to gear, AI, etc in the box to kit out your BoS force.
The Sentry Bot is actually smaller resin pieces and doesn't use up the volume of resin as the Corvega, same goes for the Deathclaw
Grot 6 wrote:
This companies "Star Trek" game is in the same boat. 8 guys for over 50 bucks and more insane price structures...Modiphius has no idea that they are on the chopping block when they do this to the customer, and if it continues, they will be out of business this year, because they are pushing more to make these products and gut themselves on license, then they will in gaining players and sales.
Remember that's 8 unique licensed character figures for 52 bucks - if you compare that to other minis lines you're typically getting 10 man units for over 50 bucks with several repeats. Licenses don't come free and nor does having each figure unique in the box - that's a huge cost in sculpting. The two 10 man squads are also $52 again for a licensed resin set and with some repeats like other similar lines. We're not using the cheapest manufacturers but what we believe are one of the best and that comes with a cost. We're not out to screw people over we look carefully at costs, see where we can shave things down, or increase the value. With Fallout we spent a long time working on the costs, trying to get them down but at some point you risk compromising the quality for the customer too and that's not worth it.
Not really put off by the prices TBH. Wish I could spare the money to just go ahead all in. Biggest thing holding me back from pre-ordering at this point is lack of pics of figs.
would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?
my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.
Agreed. I'd rather pay somewhat more for the resin models in the starter than have to buy them separately and have duplicates. Or at least put the resin versions in as a freebie for the top two bundles (Depending on how long the preorder window is, I may end up with the Vault Dwellers bundle)
Aeneades wrote:Someone has just pointed out that the starter set is actually pvc according to the description. I am assuming that's a mistake as Chris did say that this set was resin with larger pvc starter next year.
Yes we weren't happy with the pricing on the resin starter (with all the overseas production required for dice, counters, cards etc so decided to go the hardened pvc route to give better value for money, cheaper price and means we're better able to get stock out there. It also means a pre-assembled starter set to get more people in to the hobby quickly.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote: Some of these things are just baffling. $34 for a fething Corvega? $20 for 4 barrels? $34 for 6 Ghouls?
Gotta love the BoS "core box" that has 6 mooks and ONE suit of power armour in it. Oh yeah, $54 please.
HIGHLY disappointed....
I agree, the pricing is disappointing. $34 for a single piece resin car seems like a lot. I guess the plans for having the interior included fell through, too. I am further left scratching my head when the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot are both cheaper than the scatter terrain car.
Also, Cait, one of the figures I was most looking forward to, has an awful face sculpt and a XBOX HUGE shotgun. Bleh.
Waiting for retail.
Yes the covega is a huge piece of resin - that really pushes up production costs. The BoS suit is balanced well - you need a good mixture of soldiers in combat armour, Scribes who can do hacking, and the T60 is very powerful - especially with the Gatling laser which is an insane weapon. Remember the T60 is a BIG figure on a 40mm base. This all pushes up the costs and we include a whole set of BoS themed cards - from units to gear, AI, etc in the box to kit out your BoS force.
The Sentry Bot is actually smaller resin pieces and doesn't use up the volume of resin as the Corvega, same goes for the Deathclaw
Grot 6 wrote:
This companies "Star Trek" game is in the same boat. 8 guys for over 50 bucks and more insane price structures...Modiphius has no idea that they are on the chopping block when they do this to the customer, and if it continues, they will be out of business this year, because they are pushing more to make these products and gut themselves on license, then they will in gaining players and sales.
Remember that's 8 unique licensed character figures for 52 bucks - if you compare that to other minis lines you're typically getting 10 man units for over 50 bucks with several repeats. Licenses don't come free and nor does having each figure unique in the box - that's a huge cost in sculpting. The two 10 man squads are also $52 again for a licensed resin set and with some repeats like other similar lines. We're not using the cheapest manufacturers but what we believe are one of the best and that comes with a cost. We're not out to screw people over we look carefully at costs, see where we can shave things down, or increase the value. With Fallout we spent a long time working on the costs, trying to get them down but at some point you risk compromising the quality for the customer too and that's not worth it.
would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?
my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.
Agreed. I'd rather pay somewhat more for the resin models in the starter than have to buy them separately and have duplicates. Or at least put the resin versions in as a freebie for the top two bundles (Depending on how long the preorder window is, I may end up with the Vault Dwellers bundle)
Preorder window is up until about February according to a post on Facebook. The orders will be shipped in the order they are placed though so later orders will be shipped a little later.
That would be my main wish as well - want the Resin miniatures rather than PVC, but it seems rather wasteful getting duplicates of everything with the upgrade set.
Would be perfectly happy if that set was an option, even for the + £20 mentioned above in the thread!
The prices are pretty much as I expected for a licenced product
Did some quick math. I realize this may not help anyone who suffers sticker shock, but for what it's worth:
The big set (Vault Tec Complete) comes with a little less than 80 models (not counting terrain except the Corvega and turrets). That's a per model cost of a bit above 10€. This doesn't account for the Corvega, Sentry Bot, Deathclaw and Behemoth being large models and a whole host of Super Mutants coming in larger than normal humans. On the flipside, it doesn't account for PVC on a dozen models either.
But compare that to other manufacturers. I'll just go with the ones I buy most from:
Raging Heroes is 5€ per model for troops, 6€ per model for command section, and in excess of 11€ for individual models.
Brother Vinni is 7.20€ for individual human models and in excess of 9€ for larger sized models.
Golem Miniatures sells individual resin models for 8€+.
Hasslefree sells individual resin master series models for 10€.
Now as I said, I paid a little over 10€ per model for my preorder if, only if I count just the models. What is not accounted for is rules, cards, tokens, dice, the size of the aforementioned large models, a card gas station and a 3x3 gaming mat.
Then you add licensing fees.
For me, Modiphius is clearly not going above industry standard with pricing, so I have no problem with paying these prices.
The big Vault Tec bundle contains a lot of scenery and card components as well so you may be better off working out the per model cost based upon the Vault Dweller bundle instead as that cuts out the scenery, rulers, dice, extra card deck, etc.
However there appears to be an issue with the Vault Dwller bundle pricing as it claims to have savings of £50 compared with purchasing individually but it's actually £10 more expensive. I suspect that they have missed the resin starter models off the component list but that still has it off by £5. Waiting for official response.
Aeneades wrote: The big Vault Tec bundle contains a lot of scenery and card components as well so you may be better off working out the per model cost based upon the Vault Dweller bundle instead as that cuts out the scenery, rulers, dice, extra card deck, etc.
However there appears to be an issue with the Vault Dwller bundle pricing as it claims to have savings of £50 compared with purchasing individually but it's actually £10 more expensive. I suspect that they have missed the resin starter models off the component list but that still has it off by £5. Waiting for official response.
Yeah, the idea was not to establish a super accurate price per model and more to point out some facts and figures.
Make no mistake, I went into this prepared and when I saw the prices on the screen my first thought still was, boy that's a whoooooole lot of money. I couldn't just place an order without going over the numbers first.
Now I'm not telling anybody they have to like the prices. I know price is a touchy subject that everyone has to decide for themselves if it's worth it.
But the facts don't lie and I can't see any inflated prices compared to other what other companies offer. The point is about quality having its price is valid, too. I have a couple of cheap resin models and you can see their low price reflected in design and casting quality. As I said before, it would have been good, and honestly direly necessary as far as I'm concerned, to have actual model pictures available for the preorder start. But that's not who it turned out and I can understand anyone who hesitates to place an order on those grounds.
When price per model is concerned, I'd go off of the individual packs (I didn't in my last post because I posted about what affected me directly). Small numbers, easy to calculate, and you don't have to worry about any bulk discounts. Take the Minuteman Posse and Boston Survivors packs for 25 and 20 GBP respectively. That's 6.25 and 6.66 GBP per model respectively, or by current exchange rate around something like 7.50€ to 8€ per model. That's for regular human sized models.
Of course, as mentioned before, one thing that positively affects me and other Europeans is the favorable exchange rate, so I may have a different perspective than others who don't benefit from the weaker pound.
RADSTORM MAYHEM! We’ve been working overnight to update some of the bundles, talked to the factory to see what we can do and listened to everyone's comments. See below for some big changes...
- VAULT DWELLER BUNDLE ONLY £335 NOT £395
- VAULT-TEC COMPLETE PACKAGE BUNDLE - Extra scenic set, Creature Blisters instead of Creature Set
- SCENIC SET - Extra Corvega Sedan
- RESIN TWO PLAYER STARTER SET - £69.99 online only
MORE BELOW:
- VAULT DWELLER BUNDLE ONLY £335 - it was incorrectly priced and should have been just £335 not £395! Anyone who purchased it is being offered a refund of the difference.
- VAULT-TEC COMPLETE PACKAGE BUNDLE has been updated to include a second Scenic Set (which also includes a second Corvega so you now get 4!), and we’ve changed the Creature set out to include one of each of the Creature Blisters instead, it now saves you £175 on the total value!
- SCENIC SET has had an extra Corvega Sedan added to give you more to use on your tabletop and saves £40 on the total value.
- RESIN TWO PLAYER STARTER SET We've now added this version at £69.99 which includes everything you need to play. The only difference is this version does not come with the Deathclaw (which was a bonus for the PVC set). The Resin Two Player Set will only be available online as part of the pre-order initially due to the logistics of separating the components at the factory, and getting them packed in the UK instead. It comes as a bundle of products not in retail packaging. https://www.modiphius.net/…/fallout-wasteland-warfare-resin…
- We'd added more info to both starter sets, the included missions were not mentioned. The Starter Set comes with 5 x Training missions following the Survivors and Super Mutants, 5 x Tournament Missions, 5 x AI Missions and 5 x Narrative Missions.
We're always listening - please ask questions below if you need help.
For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.
Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.
With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.
Hanskrampf wrote: For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.
Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.
With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.
Which skirmish game are you comparing it to that you think makes this look expensive?
Hanskrampf wrote: For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.
Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.
With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.
Which skirmish game are you comparing it to that you think makes this look expensive?
Infinity Red Veil / Icestorm: RRP 90 € - 14 (+1 preorder) super sweet and detailed minis in metal, okay-ish cardboard terrain, paper playmat, counters, starter rules, full free rules online
PVC minis might be good quality these days, but I always thought it's chosen for mass producing lots of miniatures for a low price: see CMON or similiar kickstarters for example. Not sure why it was chosen as a material for the starter, because obviously the low price seems to be lost on the way to the customer. Maybe a Kickstarter would have been the better way for the starter to keep the cost low and see how much interest there really is.
So €80 for the Resin starter for 11 resin miniatures (+ added game junk) is much of a difference?
Even then that's one specific item, the rest of the range compares favourably to infinity... whilst also being in s superior material and being Fsllout.
I'm not saying Infinity is bad, or expensive, just this is the same ballpark in price and quality.
Hanskrampf wrote: For nearly 70€ for the Two-Player Starter for 12 PVC (!!!) miniatures, this is a hard pass for me.
Sure, it includes a rulebook, some cards (~150 isn't really that much) and counters, but I feel like this is way too much for a wargame in PVC.
Resin version would have been okay-ish if it included the Deathclaw.
With a price like this, I really wonder if this will get picked up a lot.
Which skirmish game are you comparing it to that you think makes this look expensive?
Infinity Red Veil / Icestorm: RRP 90 € - 14 (+1 preorder) super sweet and detailed minis in metal, okay-ish cardboard terrain, paper playmat, counters, starter rules, full free rules online
PVC minis might be good quality these days, but I always thought it's chosen for mass producing lots of miniatures for a low price: see CMON or similiar kickstarters for example. Not sure why it was chosen as a material for the starter, because obviously the low price seems to be lost on the way to the customer. Maybe a Kickstarter would have been the better way for the starter to keep the cost low and see how much interest there really is.
Miniature gamers are so weird with prices...
Red Veil is 110 USD Retail Fallout Retail is 80 USD. Yea, you can get Red Veil at a third party discount like miniature market for 82$
You get 2 more miniatures for infinity. The preorder bonus guy is long over. The "super sweet detail" is all objective. Yea, infinity is nice, but I absolutely hate metal, regardless of how "good" it looks. The terrain, is also subjective. I think its pretty crap, same with the paper game mat. That's going to last you a few games and its gone. If you have a FLGS who has boards/terrain, then you don't need to have either in the set. This, like infinity has the cards counters dice rules. So that's the same. Given time, this can easily get moved to third party sellers at a discount like infinity is.
So, for 30$ more you get 2 models, a paper mat and cardboard terrain. All of that makes sense to me. Most 2 player starter sets are around 100$ these days.
I agree the car and vending machine terrain is way over priced, and ill never buy it but the packs of minis and sets are on par with todays market.
That's the way i saw it when i looked at the prices, they were on par with infinity/batman/malifaux. The game also has card components for skills/equipment that factors into cost (of course the license itself has to be paid for in addition to his).
Also when it comes to skirmish games I always find it odd that some wargamers will spend hundreds to a few thousand on an army on GW product but when any other company does something similar it is the end of the world. In skirmish games you generally need less models so while the upfront cost of a box of 4-6 models seems high that is probably all if not most of your army in one go. In fact buying the starter plus booster for the army probably has way more than what you can bring to a regular battle so you will have plenty of options to play around with.
The one thing i really want them to release is the alternate heads/weapons sprue they were talking about in one of the surveys in order to customize some of the models. I will say the terrain seems overpriced but that's because terrain is one of the things most people can make dirt cheap on their own if they have the time/inclination to do so.
Nostromodamus wrote: Some of these things are just baffling. $34 for a fething Corvega? $20 for 4 barrels? $34 for 6 Ghouls?
Gotta love the BoS "core box" that has 6 mooks and ONE suit of power armour in it. Oh yeah, $54 please.
HIGHLY disappointed....
I agree, the pricing is disappointing. $34 for a single piece resin car seems like a lot. I guess the plans for having the interior included fell through, too. I am further left scratching my head when the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot are both cheaper than the scatter terrain car.
Also, Cait, one of the figures I was most looking forward to, has an awful face sculpt and a XBOX HUGE shotgun. Bleh.
Waiting for retail.
Yes the covega is a huge piece of resin - that really pushes up production costs. The BoS suit is balanced well - you need a good mixture of soldiers in combat armour, Scribes who can do hacking, and the T60 is very powerful - especially with the Gatling laser which is an insane weapon. Remember the T60 is a BIG figure on a 40mm base. This all pushes up the costs and we include a whole set of BoS themed cards - from units to gear, AI, etc in the box to kit out your BoS force.
The Sentry Bot is actually smaller resin pieces and doesn't use up the volume of resin as the Corvega, same goes for the Deathclaw
Why is the Covega solid resin? Since it doesn't have an interior couldn't it have been made hollow to save on weight and resin and thus lowering the price?
Also, the Deathclaw and Sentry Bot presumably are not single-piece figures and have additional parts which increases casting costs over a single-piece resin car. Still, they are much cheaper than the car. They also have more utility than the car since they are game pieces versus scatter terrain. The website doesn't list any additional components coming with the Covega, no cards, no tokens, nothing to increase it's utility in the game other than being cover/terrain. All that makes the price hard to accept.
Coupled with the recent addition of an additional Covega model to the terrain bundle makes me think the single car is over priced.
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Alpharius wrote: Prices may be comparable, but 'quality' remains an unknown as this point.
Yes, it's been mentioned in the video as well that miniatures are currently undergoing painting.
Some highlights from the video:
- Model pictures should be taken next week.
- There will be all sorts of videos including high-res of the models, detailed game aspects and a more complete battle report than the short video we've seen
- After this first wave ships, there will be a second wave preorder for next summer that includes the Enclave, Raiders and the Institute.
- There is a Vault Dweller set in the works for the second wave that includes 3 Vault-Tec Security and 2 Vault Dwellers.
To be specific, it won’t be all the model, but it will be better shots of painted brotherhood and a super mutant.
These will be my painting, not the studio team (but once those are in house we will be racing to get photos there too!).
Just wanted to set peoples expectations.
I know everyone is keen to see actual models, and I agree it’s important so you know what you are buying in to. But we produce minis out of house, working with CMA who do a lot of the Hawk line, so we are not able to just pop down to the factory floor and grab production minis sadly.
Think £69.99 for the resin starter is a pretty good deal, there are enough 'classic' miniatures and designs in there that it will be worth it even if I don't end up collecting those at factions.
Plus the AI rules are an incentive to have a couple of models around as adversaries.
JonWebb wrote: To be specific, it won’t be all the model, but it will be better shots of painted brotherhood and a super mutant.
These will be my painting, not the studio team (but once those are in house we will be racing to get photos there too!).
Just wanted to set peoples expectations.
I know everyone is keen to see actual models, and I agree it’s important so you know what you are buying in to. But we produce minis out of house, working with CMA who do a lot of the Hawk line, so we are not able to just pop down to the factory floor and grab production minis sadly.
Thanks for the input. Considering the paint job on the sentry gun, that'll be plenty good.
Say, this might be an oddly specific request, but do you happen to know the length and width of the Corvega? I'm trying to build a scenery piece with a parking lot and trying to figure out spacing between the markings is driving me nuts.
Geifer wrote:Thanks for the input. Considering the paint job on the sentry gun, that'll be plenty good.
Say, this might be an oddly specific request, but do you happen to know the length and width of the Corvega? I'm trying to build a scenery piece with a parking lot and trying to figure out spacing between the markings is driving me nuts.
Sadly I don’t. I’ve only handled the petrol pumps and fridge (Steve is our prod manager on this one, so he gets all the 3D prints, and I only get the scraps to play with )
Manchu wrote:
Alpharius wrote: but 'quality' remains an unknown as this point.
cannot be emphasized enough - maybe modiphius is used to not having to show tangible things given their balliwick is traditionally RPGs
Modiphius are definitely evolving and learning as a company, as they expand both their product lines, game style and staffing. It’s a lovely team of people, and remember, we are a relatively small company who have been more focussed on RPGs and board games till recently (AC!Skirmish not withstanding)
I’ve been with the company for three months, having been recruited to help with their wargames expansion (after a stint with Warcradle working on WWX) and we then took on James who worked with Hawk to assist in that. So, we came on quite late in the Fallout process (though Chris and the team have certainly let us play our part) and are keen to help bring the wargamer mentality to the company... hell, it’s why we were hired.
We are all learning from this one, and are adapting and working as hard and fast as we can to get what people want to see out there, but it’s a complex world, dealing with third parties and licenses, vs an in house production on an IP you own.
None the less, I know you are all hungry for more (which is good! It shows passion and interest), and we are doing all we can. 3D prints of wave one have been through our hands and are now with CMA for mastering and casting, but this isn’t an overnight thing given the volume of sculpts we have sent their way. No one wishes it was more than me (other than maybe Chris and Steve who endure my daily query on when things are going to be in my grubby mits )
Hopefully long enough for us to get proper pics of production models?
According to Facebook February with releases in March, but pre-orders will be dispatched in the order they are received. So, if you want your pre-order stuff earlier than others it would be best to order now.
One more aside (before my girlfriend disowns me for working outside of office hours instead of giving her my undivided attention).
I’ve just had an email with finished shots of our Star Trek minis and the bulk of the Brotherhood starter, so expect to see those soon, once the painters ship them back to me. So yes, before the pre order ends :p
They look great, but you will have to wait a tiny bit longer so we can get them under the studio lights and into the hands of Sal our photographer and social media whizz.
Jon - I appreciate your position, I have caught glimpses here and there of the chaotic realities you're facing working for publishers. (Mini gaming especially is a small, small world.) That's actually why I speculated about Modiphius as an organization not fully appreciating how much minis gamers have come to loathe renders in the last five or so years of Kickstarter. The responses on DakkaDakka and other sites might be usefully quoted in a "how can we improve" memo before the ball gets rolling on a John Carter pre-order (my understanding is, that one will also involve minis). Definitely keep in mind that everyone here is grateful for your engagement.
Also, from what I am seeing this is based in Europe so those of US will be paying a conversion fee for this or is there a US based seller we can pre-order from?
Manchu wrote: Jon - I appreciate your position, I have caught glimpses here and there of the chaotic realities you're facing working for publishers. (Mini gaming especially is a small, small world.) That's actually why I speculated about Modiphius as an organization not fully appreciating how much minis gamers have come to loathe renders in the last five or so years of Kickstarter. The responses on DakkaDakka and other sites might be usefully quoted in a "how can we improve" memo before the ball gets rolling on a John Carter pre-order (my understanding is, that one will also involve minis). Definitely keep in mind that everyone here is grateful for your engagement.
Not a problem, and thank you no one has said anything I feel has crossed a line or I haven’t said or thought myself as a gamer/consumer. Hell, I think sometimes we go easy on companies and could be a little more demanding. Just don’t tell the boss I said that
Ultimately, we are all gamers at Modiphius, same as you guys and gals. Each of us has our specific focuses and reference points so it’s always an interesting time debating the best path to take with games.
The post script on this one will be fed in to the machine as I’m not one to rest on my laurels and we can always learn and do better, no matter how good the end project. Once folks start getting the minis in their hands I think you will enjoy them, waiting is always a buzz kill. It’s why I’m going off long burn kickstarters.., especially for wargames.
John Carter minis... couldn’t possibly comment on what I’ve seen on that front
Also, from what I am seeing this is based in Europe so those of US will be paying a conversion fee for this or is there a US based seller we can pre-order from?
Probably should of checked that my self. but from what i understand its 120 pounds. and if you are purchasing through paypal it does the conversion i think.
JonWebb wrote:One more aside (before my girlfriend disowns me for working outside of office hours instead of giving her my undivided attention).
I’ve just had an email with finished shots of our Star Trek minis and the bulk of the Brotherhood starter, so expect to see those soon, once the painters ship them back to me. So yes, before the pre order ends :p
Excellent - thank you!
Manchu wrote: Jon - I appreciate your position, I have caught glimpses here and there of the chaotic realities you're facing working for publishers. (Mini gaming especially is a small, small world.) That's actually why I speculated about Modiphius as an organization not fully appreciating how much minis gamers have come to loathe renders in the last five or so years of Kickstarter. The responses on DakkaDakka and other sites might be usefully quoted in a "how can we improve" memo before the ball gets rolling on a John Carter pre-order (my understanding is, that one will also involve minis). Definitely keep in mind that everyone here is grateful for your engagement.
Price doesn't bother me at all, was better then I expected especially after buying warhammer crap the last few years. The long time in between pre order and shipping has me waiting until a retail release though.
On a side note I've seen some rumblings about waiting to buy in until everything goes on clearance. Why? Why wait until the game is dead to buy in, what's the point in that? I would rather spend a little more on a live game then spend money on something that won't ever have a new edition or updates.
Rotgut wrote: Price doesn't bother me at all, was better then I expected especially after buying warhammer crap the last few years. The long time in between pre order and shipping has me waiting until a retail release though.
On a side note I've seen some rumblings about waiting to buy in until everything goes on clearance. Why? Why wait until the game is dead to buy in, what's the point in that? I would rather spend a little more on a live game then spend money on something that won't ever have a new edition or updates.
Not to mention the best way of ensuring expansions come out and the game is fleshed out to include all F4 factions (like Gunners and Raider bands) and potentially even beyond to other Fallout games is to support it - by buying it. If someone wants to wait and 'hope' it dies so they can scoop a discount that's pretty poor.
Geifer wrote:Thanks for the input. Considering the paint job on the sentry gun, that'll be plenty good.
Say, this might be an oddly specific request, but do you happen to know the length and width of the Corvega? I'm trying to build a scenery piece with a parking lot and trying to figure out spacing between the markings is driving me nuts.
Sadly I don’t. I’ve only handled the petrol pumps and fridge (Steve is our prod manager on this one, so he gets all the 3D prints, and I only get the scraps to play with )
Thanks for the reply. It was worth a try.
Manchu wrote: Definitely keep in mind that everyone here is grateful for your engagement.
Also, from what I am seeing this is based in Europe so those of US will be paying a conversion fee for this or is there a US based seller we can pre-order from?
Probably should of checked that my self. but from what i understand its 120 pounds. and if you are purchasing through paypal it does the conversion i think.
Yes, the threshold for getting Nuka-Girl is 120 pounds according to the store page, and if you pay via Paypal they'll handle the conversion automatically.
From reading Facebook it seems that Modiphius has no regional distributors as such and the initial preorder is based on buying from their online store and shipping from Britain. Then there will be independent store preorders starting at the end of November, which should allow you to buy in your region. I'm just going to assume that at least some American stores will be interested in this.
Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.
Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.
angel of death 007 wrote: Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.
Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.
I'm still puzzled what you're comparing it to to think the expansion sets are expensive.
angel of death 007 wrote: Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.
Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.
I'm still puzzled what you're comparing it to to think the expansion sets are expensive.
If something costs more than you're willing to pay, you can think it too expensive without requiring a comparison.
None of the Fallout 3/4 factions really interest me, beside maybe the Minutemen if they flesh them out.
If they put out some New Vegas factions I'll throw down cash in a heartbeat. I guess it's better this way, since it gives me time to observe and see if the game is a success or not, specifically in the local scene.
Arbitrator wrote: None of the Fallout 3/4 factions really interest me, beside maybe the Minutemen if they flesh them out.
If they put out some New Vegas factions I'll throw down cash in a heartbeat. I guess it's better this way, since it gives me time to observe and see if the game is a success or not, specifically in the local scene.
Maybe you should make your own Fallout. With Blackjack and hookers!
While I'm happy with the East Coast setting starting things off, there is some cross compatibility. Super Mutants, critters, civilians and Minutemen, robots are all good for New Vegas and further west. It's why I had hoped Raiders would be among the initial release. They're both generic enough for the entire US and another staple of Fallout.
Seeing the new resin start set up on the site now. With the pricing update for the big bundle, wondering if there will be an option for the bundle with the resin starter. Get everything in resin.. Crossing fingers....
angel of death 007 wrote: Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.
Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.
I'm still puzzled what you're comparing it to to think the expansion sets are expensive.
If something costs more than you're willing to pay, you can think it too expensive without requiring a comparison.
Sure, but he said typically he goes all in.
What is he going all in on that isn't as expensive as this?
Arbitrator wrote: None of the Fallout 3/4 factions really interest me, beside maybe the Minutemen if they flesh them out.
If they put out some New Vegas factions I'll throw down cash in a heartbeat. I guess it's better this way, since it gives me time to observe and see if the game is a success or not, specifically in the local scene.
Maybe you should make your own Fallout. With Blackjack and hookers!
While I'm happy with the East Coast setting starting things off, there is some cross compatibility. Super Mutants, critters, civilians and Minutemen, robots are all good for New Vegas and further west. It's why I had hoped Raiders would be among the initial release. They're both generic enough for the entire US and another staple of Fallout.
I mean, I expected East Coast to be the kick-off point just because it's the most well known half of the franchise and there's probably those awkward licensing issues with Obsidian. It's just that I find the East Coast factions dull as dishwater. I suppose the BoS aren't bad, but everybody and their mum will be playing those.
I like the Minutemen just because they're the Every Man, despite people's dislike of 'em due to the settlement memes. I hope we see more releases for them; power armour (since you can paint it in their colours), different sculpts of the standard trooper, etc. Although what I really want to see is the NCR.
Arbitrator wrote: None of the Fallout 3/4 factions really interest me, beside maybe the Minutemen if they flesh them out.
If they put out some New Vegas factions I'll throw down cash in a heartbeat. I guess it's better this way, since it gives me time to observe and see if the game is a success or not, specifically in the local scene.
Maybe you should make your own Fallout. With Blackjack and hookers!
While I'm happy with the East Coast setting starting things off, there is some cross compatibility. Super Mutants, critters, civilians and Minutemen, robots are all good for New Vegas and further west. It's why I had hoped Raiders would be among the initial release. They're both generic enough for the entire US and another staple of Fallout.
I mean, I expected East Coast to be the kick-off point just because it's the most well known half of the franchise and there's probably those awkward licensing issues with Obsidian. It's just that I find the East Coast factions dull as dishwater. I suppose the BoS aren't bad, but everybody and their mum will be playing those.
I like the Minutemen just because they're the Every Man, despite people's dislike of 'em due to the settlement memes. I hope we see more releases for them; power armour (since you can paint it in their colours), different sculpts of the standard trooper, etc. Although what I really want to see is the NCR.
While I don't agree I can certainly understand the point. Not that I find the East Coast factions particularly interesting - the only faction I'm interested in is me - but since I'm no good with modding tools for the video games, to me a tabletop game with all the announced features, solo play, coop play, campaigns and it looks like full AI support (and I believe there was mention of vehicle rules down the line?), is a great way of exploring Fallout beyond the boundaries of the video game. It doesn't have to be the Mojave or the Commonwealth or the Capital Wasteland. May not be canon, but it's essentially all the freedom that I like about RPGs packed in a format I can work with.
Yeah, Brotherhood will certainly be a big seller. At least it wouldn't surprise me. It's the Space Marine formula at work, really. It's why I assume that the canonical ending of Fallout 4 will be the BoS ending, at least until Bethesda says otherwise. Just too many fans of the Brotherhood around to go any other way.
I can state for myself that I don't dislike the Minutemen because of any memes. It's a well nurtured hatred cultivated entirely through playing the game and seeing a bunch of hicks with the most questionable gun design ever trying to take on Super Mutants and Raiders with automatic weapons. Yeah...
While New Vegas introduced a canonical outfit for the NCR, I'm not sure if you couldn't just go back to Fallout 2 and do NCR troops with combat armor. BoS models without the badge and painted to look the part should give you something to work with. I certainly intend to repurpose many a BoS model until other models are released.
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Tannhauser42 wrote: I hope it won't be long to get a T-45 suit to rock alongside my Minutemen.
Me too. The sooner we get more power armor variants, the better. Although I may be in luck because the Enclave seems to be a priority for wave 2.
angel of death 007 wrote: Living in the US I think the base game is a decent buy in. Looking at the cost of the add on's left me scratching my head. Typically I go all in but the all in price is way to extreme for me. Further more without the US distributors in yet I wouldn't want to imagine what shipping would cost.
Ordering the base game and paying probably a crazy amount for shipping with no real benefit to preorder the base game. I will wait til some of the retail stores start posting their pre orders before placing mine.
I'm still puzzled what you're comparing it to to think the expansion sets are expensive.
125 pounds before shipping is almost $165 US dollars for 12 PVC models and 8 resin ones. If you do go this route you save some money but are still paying the about $85 USD for 8 models. Again not too bad
The problem will be shipping, same as is always the case with Forgeworld. With there being a game box I would estimate the cost to be between $20-30 to ship to FL.
If i wait for a US vendor to carry it most offer around 20% off and free shipping if you spend a certain amount. So what am I really getting by preordering?
The all in price is $929 that is without shipping. Most all in prices range around the $300 mark for similiar style games. That is a HUGE difference. 300 I can justify spending to get everything for something I really like, which I love Fallout but almost a grand is more then double what I have ever spent on any initial buyin that I didn't already own their product. So yes I would consider almost a grand to be extreme as there is no way to justify it considering it was more then I paid for my first vehicle.
What did I go all in on or almost all in on that wasn't more expensive then this.... lets see in order
-Fire and Ice @ $274
-Relic knights 2nd edition @ $390
-Vanguard of War @ $250
-Mythic Battles Pantheon @ $196
-The Edge: Dawnfall @ 150 pounds
-Vampire Hunters@ $261
-Walking Dead No Sanctuary @ $200ish
-Walking Dead All Out War @ $247
-Knight Models Batman Miniatures Game 2nd edition (preorders) Rules were free and all in on preorders was $157.
So there are several recent examples. Several of them come with boards, terrain and very impressive models. Most the model count is easily 3-4 times the amount offered here for the same price. Yes I love Fallout and will probably get the base game. Yes I would like to go all in. No I will not spend a grand to do so. Simple.
Well, it's not really fair to compare PVC board game kickstarters with a lot of repeats to a resin skirmish game release to retail.
The only one I've actually ever bought from the list are knight models, which I'm pretty sure are more expensive than Fallout, smaller and in an inferior material (I actually like the Batman line!).
Obviously buying large amounts of resin miniatures, a significant number of which are larger than human sized, is going to be pricey, but you don't need anywhere near that to play
Going off the gameplay video we've seen, I reckon 10-12 human models is plenty for a good sized game. Remember that this is a skirmish game at its core.
Yeah, I should have said settlers or other folks who basically run around naked.
Wasteland Warfare is supposed to have some scalability (with 3-30 models being a number officially thrown around, but I, not being privy to Modiphius's secrets, can't tell how the high and low ends compare), but I don't think anyone needs to worry about not starting out with enough models in the same way as, say, a GW start collecting box might be a good start in isolation but usually still one or two units below what is generally played. Fallout doesn't have an established player base yet that would dictate an established minimum game size. There's no reason to err on the high side of model count other than that you like and want the models.
It's a lot to throw down on a preorder when we haven't seen:
Most of the sculpts
Anything painted
Rules document
Finished cards
Finished tokens
We have no idea how the AI system or solo play works. Or list building. Is what we get in these kits even enough to play a game?
Modiphius has been awesome with communicating to customers, and I'm sure they will eventually deliver a great product, but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith
WUWU wrote: but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith
I agree completely. While the game is looking solid, it looks very much like a WIP at this point - maybe this is the effect of the KS model becoming so popular? Even companies not using KS feel like they can lean hard on customers' good faith.
WUWU wrote: but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith
I agree completely. While the game is looking solid, it looks very much like a WIP at this point - maybe this is the effect of the KS model becoming so popular? Even companies not using KS feel like they can lean hard on customers' good faith.
I assume it has more to do with expanding into the miniatures game market (so there's a measure of inexperience) and having to juggle their own schedule with that of the model manufacturer and throwing Bethesda's approval process into the mix for good measure.
I do think Modiphius suffers from something that happens with many kickstarters. They have a plan and honestly communicate it, but the plan is a bit on the best case side and doesn't account for obstacles along the way for fear of scaring away customers with, at the time, unfounded ifs and buts.Perhaps the plan was to have a preorder in August with a general release in November and they honestly believed they could make it.
I can't see where the problem is though. What are you missing out on from not prordering 6 months early and waiting to see all the things you want to see?
They said March for retail. Summer is when the core rule book will be released. So I'm assuming quick play guide in the starter box. I have mix feelings on the success of the game or it's launch, it feels pretty bumpy. I wonder if star trek was and is this bad.
Vorian wrote: I can't see where the problem is though. What are you missing out on from not prordering 6 months early and waiting to see all the things you want to see?
Not sure what you are looking for here - I'm not suggesting I will "miss out" on anything (although there may be some preorder exclusive models). Just discussing the pre-order launch on a web forum meant for discussion.
The Trek stuff is at retail pre-order stage and I still have no idea how the mini component of the game works. No pics of the figs (apparently they are coming soon) or info about the tiles.
WUWU wrote: but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith
I agree completely. While the game is looking solid, it looks very much like a WIP at this point - maybe this is the effect of the KS model becoming so popular? Even companies not using KS feel like they can lean hard on customers' good faith.
Agreed!
I need more here before I'd feel comfortable putting down a significant amount of pre-order money.
So I'm OK with waiting and being further down the line in terms of when it ships to me from the pre-order queue.
You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.
If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.
I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.
As far as I know the Star Trek miniatures are just to represent characters during combat positions in the RPG and do not have seperate skirmish rules. I have seen the quality of the pvc preview models (have a Kirk at home) and that was pretty good.
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WUWU wrote: It's a lot to throw down on a preorder when we haven't seen:
Most of the sculpts
Anything painted
Rules document
Finished cards
Finished tokens
We have no idea how the AI system or solo play works. Or list building. Is what we get in these kits even enough to play a game?
Modiphius has been awesome with communicating to customers, and I'm sure they will eventually deliver a great product, but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith
There are digital close ups of most of the sculpts over on the official page and group shots on the store page. Painted physical models should be received within the next week or two (some are with a member of the Modiphus team and some models are with the studio painter).
I don't think we will see any draft rules prior to release, very few companies do this outside of Kickstarter (Knight models is the main exception I can think of).
The final card designs are currently waiting approval and will be revealed as soon as possible.
The AI system will be previewed in a video very shortly, sounds like they are just waiting on the card design approval and painted models first.
Whilst some more information / resin close ups would be nice, the preorder period does run until next February so there is no urgent need to jump onto a pre-order until more details are released. The only thing I think you will need to wait a lon time for are PVC close ups as they have only just started the tooling process.
Vorian wrote: You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.
If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.
I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.
A preorder to the producer of a game is essentially an interest free loan with payment in the form of product. This money is going to cover overhead and production costs. It isn't entirely different than Kickstarter, and much different than preordering something from your FLGS.
The amounts they are asking for upfront seem high considering what we know about the game at this point. That's all. It's not meant as disrespect on the product or company at all. I'm very excited for this game... but I'm going to wait.
To tide you over while you wait for Fallout shots, here are some Star trek figures for comparison. They are made by the same factory we use (CMA, who worked on the Dropzone line).
Note, I only glued these together and did very minimal clean up, so there is still some moldlines and flash, so you get an idea of pretty much what the minis look like out of the box, rather than fully cleaned up and ready to paint, so you can see what a raw mini looks like.
The Fallout figures are pretty much the same size/scale, so this gives a good initial point to assess the minis.
I don't think we will see any draft rules prior to release, very few companies do this outside of Kickstarter (Knight models is the main exception I can think of).
Tons and tons of companies release their rules for free. I don't necessarily need beta drafts, but I'd hope that their core system is finalized before cards are printed and product starts shipping.
Vorian wrote: You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.
If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.
I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.
A preorder to the producer of a game is essentially an interest free loan with payment in the form of product. This money is going to cover overhead and production costs. It isn't entirely different than Kickstarter, and much different than preordering something from your FLGS.
The amounts they are asking for upfront seem high considering what we know about the game at this point. That's all. It's not meant as disrespect on the product or company at all. I'm very excited for this game... but I'm going to wait.
But again, They aren't forcing you to do it. If people want to order this early based on what they've seen that's up to them. I don't understand why people are ordering this early either, I'm just saying Modiphius are hardly doing something wrong by it
Vorian wrote: You're saying they're leaning on customer's good faith. I'm just asking how.
If they were trying to coerce you in to ordering based off only renders and half explanations then fair enough. If there were massive discounts that were going to run out before they showed anything then I could see that.
I'll be waiting until I see all the stuff fleshed out over the next few months before deciding what I want.
A preorder to the producer of a game is essentially an interest free loan with payment in the form of product. This money is going to cover overhead and production costs. It isn't entirely different than Kickstarter, and much different than preordering something from your FLGS.
The amounts they are asking for upfront seem high considering what we know about the game at this point. That's all. It's not meant as disrespect on the product or company at all. I'm very excited for this game... but I'm going to wait.
But again, They aren't forcing you to do it. If people want to order this early based on what they've seen that's up to them. I don't understand why people are ordering this early either, I'm just saying Modiphius are hardly doing something wrong by it
Ooh, can't wait for my Klingons
Someone asked why people thought the price was too high. My response was, because I haven't seen enough from the game yet.
WUWU wrote: Someone asked why people thought the price was too high. My response was, because I haven't seen enough from the game yet.
I'm not sure what you are debating here
That is fairly accurate. With a Kickstarter, which many compare pre-orders to these days, we would actually have a lot larger wealth of information. We have a couple disjointed videos of gameplay, background information and renders. Now if this was an existing game, already out and people had experienced no one would probably blink an eye at it. But because it is a pre-order as a new game with barely any information it seems like a lot. I know it really isn't if you break down the $$ per model count. The problem is without information no one has an idea of how the factions play, what they will need for the balanced game (do they need all the faction), are duplicates for some models needed/allowed, as well as other things.
So what we have is a pre-order relying on a fanbase to just want the models. That said, I did pick up a faction + starter set and I would have picked up more if I knew more about it, but lack of that just has me waiting for retail at this point. It is hard to get anyone else to jump in on something who just don't like miniatures and painting them or collecting them without more information.
It definitely is a long way from ideal. All the talk about price per mini, for example, isn't very fair but without seeing the whole thing in solid condition, it's not hard to see why there was a good deal of sticker shock. You post some professional pics with professionally painted minis with really nice terrain and all the cool components, as opposed to stand in stuff, and the price is going to seem a lot better.
With RPGs, you just post a cover image and some blurb about content and that is usually enough for a supplemental product. With minis, it's a very different set of optics.
Geifer wrote: Going off the gameplay video we've seen, I reckon 10-12 human models is plenty for a good sized game. Remember that this is a skirmish game at its core.
The video demonstration earlier mentioned that 5 or so BoS soldiers would be equivalent of about 16 Raiders.
So obviously the power of each unit much vary quite dramatically!
until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap
I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.
The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.
For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.
until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap
I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.
The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.
For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.
Same here.
Of course there's still time - quite a bit of it! - for Modiphius to make it more attractive and /or clear.
until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap
I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.
The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.
For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.
I think that sums it up nicely and I will second that. I just hope they are not looking at preorders as a judgement of possible success. Honestly I think if they were looking for money to help the project along from the get go, which might not be an issue but Kickstarter would have been the better option. By avoiding Kickstarter they save a lot more on fees and on freebees but also lose a lot of the preorder crowd and the financial support it gathers.
I think the price is fairly high but not absurd, however, I also think there is no real benefit being offered in the line of discount to preorder which is where a lot of other companies get their upfront funding for tooling and to finish out their product without having to keep all the financial burden. It is a choice. I am just hoping they have the financial planning to support a project like this as it is a great idea, I wouldn't want to see it fail to bad execution or problems during pre production which the revenue might be able to help them transition to a final product which we all could enjoy.
In a Kickstarter environment I could see this easily hitting the $500k mark given the success of Fallout and miniature board games/ skirmish games in general. Benefits there are a larger customer base and the ablility to produce in bulk and get the discounts for doing so. In a preorder phase if they hit 10-15% of that mark I would say would be a tad optimistic at this point. Down the road there could easily be a shift but the impulse backers are not going to be there on this project. Again only my personal opinion. I think having a larger customer base for any new game especially one that plans on doing expansions is key and something that could potential hurt this project as a whole.
Though too late as i already checked out
would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?
my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.
Manchu wrote:Not really put off by the prices TBH. Wish I could spare the money to just go ahead all in. Biggest thing holding me back from pre-ordering at this point is lack of pics of figs.
They've started coming and there will be more as the painted figures start arriving
Manchu wrote:Jon - I appreciate your position, I have caught glimpses here and there of the chaotic realities you're facing working for publishers. (Mini gaming especially is a small, small world.) That's actually why I speculated about Modiphius as an organization not fully appreciating how much minis gamers have come to loathe renders in the last five or so years of Kickstarter. The responses on DakkaDakka and other sites might be usefully quoted in a "how can we improve" memo before the ball gets rolling on a John Carter pre-order (my understanding is, that one will also involve minis). Definitely keep in mind that everyone here is grateful for your engagement.
I got Jon in as a champion of wargaming in the office - we're all a mix of board and RPG as well as miniatures gamers. I grew up a wargamer playing 15mm napoleonics and English Civil War, Plastic ACW, 1/72 plastic ww2, then 25mm fantasy and onwards. As we moved more in to miniatures I knew we needed someone else who lived and breathed miniatures. I'm currently playing 10mm ancients (Imperial era Roman using the Mortem et Gloriam rules and trying Mayhem for a fantasy switch) so I'm with you on getting more info out there. We do with RPG's actually - typically we aim to get a free Quickstarter 32 page book out to fans during the kickstarter. With Fallout it's lot more complex with approvals and development. A wargame has more moving parts in many ways but we're getting there. The rules will be free to download as a book once they're approved and this will be before Christmas so those of you on the fence can hang out and check it out and by then we'll have plenty of awesome scenic pics and close us of production minis.
MajorWesJanson wrote:Is there a way to upgrade the Vault Dweller Bundle to include the resin version of the starter instead of the pvc one?
Basically buying the resin upgrade set. Offering alternatives of all the bundles with resin versions would be a logistics headache at this stage and make the pre-order much more complex than it is already. It's a huge effort to offer the whole of the first wave as a pre-order and ensure we can produce everything on time so I don't want to make that more complex than needed.
Tannhauser42 wrote:I hope it won't be long to get a T-45 suit to rock alongside my Minutemen.
Yep they're being sculpted at the moment, along with the T-51 and the X-01 is already done... it's a 3rd option for the Sole Survivor with both male and female heads or just a helmet if you want it for your own force.
WUWU wrote:It's a lot to throw down on a preorder when we haven't seen:
Most of the sculpts
Anything painted
Rules document
Finished cards
Finished tokens
We have no idea how the AI system or solo play works. Or list building. Is what we get in these kits even enough to play a game?
Modiphius has been awesome with communicating to customers, and I'm sure they will eventually deliver a great product, but this preorder seems a bit premature is asking for a lot of blind faith
We're not in a rush for you to order and we realise many of you need to see a lot more, I would as well. It's why we've given such a long time for the pre-order - those who know trust us get to get their stuff first and those who need more info can wait and still get the same deals with just a little more wait. There's plenty coming in fact - lots of stuff is being approved in the background so we should have card designs to show off this week, more painted minis and scenic shots. Pretty soon we'll have the core box and more resin production minis from the factory. The chinese factory has started the process of setting up the minis for tooling, but that will likely take a month or so before they're signed off.
Maddok_Death wrote:They said March for retail. Summer is when the core rule book will be released. So I'm assuming quick play guide in the starter box. I have mix feelings on the success of the game or it's launch, it feels pretty bumpy. I wonder if star trek was and is this bad.
Actually the rulebook in the core box is the full rules covering everything you need. The deluxe rulebook will have some expanded rules, the contents of the campaign box rules coming in the summer and loads and loads of great photos, painting guides, army building advice and so on.
Star Trek is already shipping and getting great reviews, the team did a fantastic job on the minis and they're in constant production to keep up with the demand which is fantastic. We're releasing a free rule set called Red Alert that you'll be able to download to use with the minis. The range hits the stores this coming week
I don't think we will see any draft rules prior to release, very few companies do this outside of Kickstarter (Knight models is the main exception I can think of).
Tons and tons of companies release their rules for free. I don't necessarily need beta drafts, but I'd hope that their core system is finalized before cards are printed and product starts shipping.
We will be releasing the full laid out rules before retail release in pdf. The core system is already finalised and currently being edited. The AI and settlement section is the final bit being tweaked before editing as well.
until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap
I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.
The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.
For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.
Pre-orders will ship first but remember we're shipping in waves - if you order late you'll be shipped at the same time or even later than retail gets their first wave stock. We can only produce so much at the same time. The PVC starter set will ship directly to the US and Europe from China and will come out in March, the resin core sets will hit retailers in April so a good chunk of pre-order customers will get their orders before retailers see the wave 1 items arrive (especially as we're only releasing certain items each month - if a retailer takes part in the pre-order they'll be able to order in everything in the retail pre-order but retailers joining at launch will only get March, then April, then May releases as they come out.
So there is a priority in the pre-order and the bundles which we're offering (which we can't offer to retailers - that will be down to them what discounts to offer). I'm sure retailers will provide some great options though and we want to encourage people to order through their stores too as it is key to keeping the game alive. We're now working out the pre-order offer for retailers and distributors so it's launched clearly for everyone.
angel of death 007 wrote:
In a Kickstarter environment I could see this easily hitting the $500k mark given the success of Fallout and miniature board games/ skirmish games in general. Benefits there are a larger customer base and the ablility to produce in bulk and get the discounts for doing so. In a preorder phase if they hit 10-15% of that mark I would say would be a tad optimistic at this point. Down the road there could easily be a shift but the impulse backers are not going to be there on this project. Again only my personal opinion. I think having a larger customer base for any new game especially one that plans on doing expansions is key and something that could potential hurt this project as a whole.
Without giving away numbers let's just say the demand is 'well and truly there' after the first few days - and there's a steady sign up as we reveal more pics etc. I suspect we'll lock down the first wave of shipments in the coming week which is faster than I'd thought. This will help us plan production better with the factory to keep ahead of the demand. Our planning is also now focused on making sure we have a clear and attractive pre-order for retailers to take part in - we want people who like to support their local store to feel like they can get cool stuff too.
until the prices dropped and it became clear that it wasn't going to be crazy cheap
I don't know if "crazy cheap" was anyone's expectation, but without seeing the actual models, and with no real incentive to pre-order (the Nuka Girl figure is nice, but there will be other ways to get her so why part with money now?) I think people are wisely holding off until more is shown to them.
The prices were certainly a let down. As were the lack of perks for pre-ordering. Nevermind the lack of exclusive or alternate figures, or just extra materials for pre-ordering, the "early" fulfillment time isn't even that much of a perk. If pre-orders start shipping in February, with retail hitting in March, there is a chance that a US customer's order could arrive after retail hits. If you are far back in the pre-order line, and account for the extra time UK to US shipping takes, you might not even get your figures early.
For me personally, there just isn't any value in pre-ordering. I'd rather wait for retail and the online discounts.
Pre-orders will ship first but remember we're shipping in waves - if you order late you'll be shipped at the same time or even later than retail gets their first wave stock. We can only produce so much at the same time.
Which is why I stated that there isn't any value in pre-ordering. However, I am confused by your last statement. If you are taking pre-orders for 5 months, how are you not able to produce enough product to satisfy those pre-orders? Stating that late pre-orders will potentially ship after retail shipments begin makes pre-ordering useless. Again, what is the point of pre-ordering from a customer's perspective, especially a non-EU customer? Is it only to get pre-order exclusive bundles? That is kinda disappointing. You are taking interest free loans from people and offering virtually nothing in return. If you can't ensure that pre-orders ship before retail, why not stop taking pre-orders at a certain point to guarantee those orders received prior to that date are fulfilled before retail releases ship?
These statements seem contradictory to me:
modiphius wrote: So there is a priority in the pre-order and the bundles which we're offering (which we can't offer to retailers - that will be down to them what discounts to offer). I'm sure retailers will provide some great options though and we want to encourage people to order through their stores too as it is key to keeping the game alive. We're now working out the pre-order offer for retailers and distributors so it's launched clearly for everyone.
modiphius wrote: Without giving away numbers let's just say the demand is 'well and truly there' after the first few days - and there's a steady sign up as we reveal more pics etc. I suspect we'll lock down the first wave of shipments in the coming week which is faster than I'd thought. This will help us plan production better with the factory to keep ahead of the demand. Our planning is also now focused on making sure we have a clear and attractive pre-order for retailers to take part in - we want people who like to support their local store to feel like they can get cool stuff too.
If Modiphius value retailers, why are they making cheaper bundles that retailers can't sell and are only exclusive to your webstore? If Modiphius value retailers, why are you leaning so heavily on the pre-order method to cut retailers out of the chain? I mean, 5 months is a long time to run a pre-order, especially when that pre-order is designed to offer things retailers can't, presumably to drive business to your direct sales.
This really feels like all of the trappings of a Kickstarter without using the actual Kickstarter platform. Modiphius is showing an unfinished product, asking for money with only promises and renders to show off and making business decisions in an ad-hoc manner (you guys haven't figured out a pre-order system for retailers? This late in the process? Really?).
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the waves, and everything involved with the pre-order, but from the information shared so far this really appears to be a messy process that should have had some additional time devoted to ironing out the kinks.
Hand cast resin is hand cast so dependant on how many trained people the workshop that Modiphius is working with can put on the production line at maximum capacity
if preorders go well, and retail interest is high they could be in a position where demand outstrips supply
the caster might consider taking on extra staff if demand is strong but might not find it convenient to do so
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Hand cast resin is hand cast so dependant on how many trained people the workshop that Modiphius is working with can put on the production line at maximum capacity
if preorders go well, and retail interest is high they could be in a position where demand outstrips supply
the caster might consider taking on extra staff if demand is strong but might not find it convenient to do so
That is one possibility. So, assuming that is the case, if the casting output is limited, why run the pre-order right up to the month before retail release? Why not cap pre-orders at a certain point to allow for retail production? Unless retail really isn't as much of a priority as it is being made out to be, you know, so more sales can stay direct order.
Since they still haven't figured out what sort of pre-order deals they are offering retailers, it is hard for me to not arrive at the conclusion this pre-order is a Kickstarter-lite operation that will prioritize Modiphius' customers over retail customers, and that retail was never really a priority in the first place.
Vorian wrote:Will the T-45, 51 and X-01s be coming with the first wave, or second now?
In the second wave. There will be a set of power armour in various poses including T-45 and 51's. There will also be the X-01 set with optional sole survivor heads.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Which is why I stated that there isn't any value in pre-ordering. However, I am confused by your last statement. If you are taking pre-orders for 5 months, how are you not able to produce enough product to satisfy those pre-orders? Stating that late pre-orders will potentially ship after retail shipments begin makes pre-ordering useless. Again, what is the point of pre-ordering from a customer's perspective, especially a non-EU customer? Is it only to get pre-order exclusive bundles? That is kinda disappointing. You are taking interest free loans from people and offering virtually nothing in return. If you can't ensure that pre-orders ship before retail, why not stop taking pre-orders at a certain point to guarantee those orders received prior to that date are fulfilled before retail releases ship?
These statements seem contradictory to me:
modiphius wrote: So there is a priority in the pre-order and the bundles which we're offering (which we can't offer to retailers - that will be down to them what discounts to offer). I'm sure retailers will provide some great options though and we want to encourage people to order through their stores too as it is key to keeping the game alive. We're now working out the pre-order offer for retailers and distributors so it's launched clearly for everyone.
modiphius wrote: Without giving away numbers let's just say the demand is 'well and truly there' after the first few days - and there's a steady sign up as we reveal more pics etc. I suspect we'll lock down the first wave of shipments in the coming week which is faster than I'd thought. This will help us plan production better with the factory to keep ahead of the demand. Our planning is also now focused on making sure we have a clear and attractive pre-order for retailers to take part in - we want people who like to support their local store to feel like they can get cool stuff too.
If Modiphius value retailers, why are they making cheaper bundles that retailers can't sell and are only exclusive to your webstore? If Modiphius value retailers, why are you leaning so heavily on the pre-order method to cut retailers out of the chain? I mean, 5 months is a long time to run a pre-order, especially when that pre-order is designed to offer things retailers can't, presumably to drive business to your direct sales.
This really feels like all of the trappings of a Kickstarter without using the actual Kickstarter platform. Modiphius is showing an unfinished product, asking for money with only promises and renders to show off and making business decisions in an ad-hoc manner (you guys haven't figured out a pre-order system for retailers? This late in the process? Really?).
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the waves, and everything involved with the pre-order, but from the information shared so far this really appears to be a messy process that should have had some additional time devoted to ironing out the kinks.
- We are building up capacity in the factory to meet demand which is why the 5 month lead time gives them enough time to ramp up. At some point we switch from pre-order production to 'stock' production which will service both retail pre-orders and web pre-orders. After that we start allocating stock for retail orders that come in launch week onwards. Getting factory production right is a huge task and if we did only a short pre-order we'd quite possibly get the forecasts wrong in some cases causing disappointment and problems with supply. With such a large range of product it's vital to get pre-order numbers. Typically distributors will not give us pre-order quantities until the week we release - they just won't commit to that, so by running a major pre-order ourselves we can gauge the demand for each pack and plan accordingly.
We'll be making enough stock in advance of launch to cope with all pre-orders - retailers included. However there will be cut off dates for both online and retail pre-orders after which we can't guarantee stock will be delivered in March, but they will still get the pre-order bonuses
"What's the point in pre-ordering from the webstore" - early delivery (if before the cut off), some items simply won't be in retail due to cost pricing, bundle deals and the pre-order Nuka Cola Girl bonus
"If you can't ensure that pre-orders ship before retail, why not stop taking pre-orders at a certain point to guarantee those orders received prior to that date are fulfilled before retail releases ship?" - instead we're letting people know a cut off date - if they order after that point they still get the deals but we won't guarantee delivery in March. They don't have to order from us they can go to retailers instead and then they will get stock when it comes out, just without the online bonuses. You'd be surprised how many just want to make sure they get the deal though and we're happy to look after them and will make any changes in delivery dates very clear.
"If Modiphius value retailers, why are they making cheaper bundles that retailers can't sell and are only exclusive to your webstore?"
- We're giving retailers a special offer for in-store pre-orders which will be different to what's online (the reason is we cant guarantee how it's used so it would be unfair to online customers if a retailer gave away Nuka Cola girl with every order instead of every order of £120). Their pre-order starts in Dec as distributors do not like starting pre-orders more than 3 months out of shipment. We're doing a lot to support them - recruiting over 500 demo team 'vault dwellers' to help go in to store and demo the games in march, setting up an online store listing to help show fans where they can play and pre-order locally. It's up to retailers to handle their own pricing and bundles and I think you and I both know that stores will be doing their own discounts and special offers when they come out.
"Modiphius is showing an unfinished product, asking for money with only promises and renders to show off and making business decisions in an ad-hoc manner (you guys haven't figured out a pre-order system for retailers? This late in the process? Really?)." - We're gradually showing off product, and provide some fair bonuses for ordering early. However we're more than happy for people to wait and see more of the game as I know some people want to see more of the rules, or more of the painted minis. Some of the costings came in very late - partly to do with sculpts taking time to get approved, the factory taking time to get the costings done and so on. That means you have to spend time looking at the margins to work out what can and can't be offered for the retail pre-order. As it doesn't start until Dec we're taking our time to get it right and give retailers the best deal we can. You don't rush something like that you spend time looking at the numbers and see what you can do. Otherwise you make massive expensive mistakes. And that's a quick way to kill the game.
Please remember this is a hugely complex process with stock being ordered in both China, France, and the UK, with three factories involved, and co-ordinated distribution fulfiment going in multiple directions to ensure we hit all distributors at the same time. We have to use pre-order sales to justify very large and expensive stock ordering with all three factories and coordinate assembly of all the different sets to ensure they are high quality and ship at the right time. It may seem messy but we don't rush things and do things at our own pace, it maybe frustrating because another company does it differently, but we're not forcing you to spend money now and would rather you wait if you're not sure. We have invested a vast sum of money in this and still have plenty to spend to get us to March (since we'll not stop developing now - we're already working on and investing in Wave 2 designs and development).
Hope that helps - there's actually some more bonuses to unveil for pre-orders but we're confirming details before we unveil them and again will do so in our own time.
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Hand cast resin is hand cast so dependant on how many trained people the workshop that Modiphius is working with can put on the production line at maximum capacity
if preorders go well, and retail interest is high they could be in a position where demand outstrips supply
the caster might consider taking on extra staff if demand is strong but might not find it convenient to do so
That is one possibility. So, assuming that is the case, if the casting output is limited, why run the pre-order right up to the month before retail release? Why not cap pre-orders at a certain point to allow for retail production? Unless retail really isn't as much of a priority as it is being made out to be, you know, so more sales can stay direct order.
Since they still haven't figured out what sort of pre-order deals they are offering retailers, it is hard for me to not arrive at the conclusion this pre-order is a Kickstarter-lite operation that will prioritize Modiphius' customers over retail customers, and that retail was never really a priority in the first place.
As above we're using the pre-order to work with the factory to scale up the production, the online and retail pre-order also helps us estimate the numbers for the chinese production of the PVC starter set which requires very big volumes and so we have to be careful to get the quantity just right. We have to work responsibly with the resin factory as they need to take on extra staff if the demand is very big and this long lead pre-order helps us plan this better with them or use their existing resources to build up stock.
Again as I mentioned we're running the pre-order through to the end of February to allow people to take advantage of the deals on the condition that we may not be able to guarantee their delivery in march - however if the production planning goes well that may not be the case. We're taking our time to plan the pre-order deals to give retailers the best options possible, but we won't rush that process and make expensive mistakes. Retail is a priority since this is not a Kickstarter. It doesn't pay for the entire first 1-2 years releases in one go, and this is why we're setting up a retail locator so fans can find where their nearest store taking part in the pre-order is, or where they can try the game first when it comes out.
Wow, thank you for that very lengthy and detailed answer. Very much appreciated. Personally I'm waiting to see a bit more of the rules, that will determine if I get into this as a painting project or a game system. But its good to hear your plans for retail support as that makes me more confident a local scene might develop.
rabidaskal wrote: Wow, thank you for that very lengthy and detailed answer. Very much appreciated. Personally I'm waiting to see a bit more of the rules, that will determine if I get into this as a painting project or a game system. But its good to hear your plans for retail support as that makes me more confident a local scene might develop.
I'm telling myself I'm waiting for more info and rules, too. But I'm already saving up to drop $400+ on this, regardless.
So, are the pre-order prices the same as the retail prices later, but the bundles include savings? Or is everything in the pre-order individually discounted compared to the eventual retail prices?
Also, out of curiousity, are the resin models being spin cast or are you using all gravity molds? My guess would be spin cast for the infantry and scenery bits and gravity molds for larger stuff like the Corvegas.
Though too late as i already checked out
would it be possible to do an upcharge on the starter set and replace the pvc for resin?
my assumptions is no as its probably a boxed set.
modiphius wrote: We'll be making enough stock in advance of launch to cope with all pre-orders - retailers included. However there will be cut off dates for both online and retail pre-orders after which we can't guarantee stock will be delivered in March, but they will still get the pre-order bonuses
Thanks for clarifying this point. Previous statements made the situation seem like you were prioritizing production for pre-orders and everything else was secondary.
modiphius wrote: Please remember this is a hugely complex process with stock being ordered in both China, France, and the UK, with three factories involved, and co-ordinated distribution fulfiment going in multiple directions to ensure we hit all distributors at the same time. We have to use pre-order sales to justify very large and expensive stock ordering with all three factories and coordinate assembly of all the different sets to ensure they are high quality and ship at the right time. It may seem messy but we don't rush things and do things at our own pace, it maybe frustrating because another company does it differently, but we're not forcing you to spend money now and would rather you wait if you're not sure. We have invested a vast sum of money in this and still have plenty to spend to get us to March (since we'll not stop developing now - we're already working on and investing in Wave 2 designs and development).
What is frustrating is the mixed messages and changing information that has occurred leading up to and immediately following the pre-order launch. It is entirely messy, it is confusing to keep information straight, and while it may have justification internally, externally it is off-putting. And really, that may be the most disappointing thing about the way this pre-order has been rolled out. Not being able to excitedly join in on the fun of pre-ordering because there is so much missing, or changing, information sucks. It seems like if you guys had waited a few more weeks a lot of these issues would have been resolved behind the scenes instead of correcting as you go publicly.
modiphius wrote: We'll be making enough stock in advance of launch to cope with all pre-orders - retailers included. However there will be cut off dates for both online and retail pre-orders after which we can't guarantee stock will be delivered in March, but they will still get the pre-order bonuses
Thanks for clarifying this point. Previous statements made the situation seem like you were prioritizing production for pre-orders and everything else was secondary.
modiphius wrote: Please remember this is a hugely complex process with stock being ordered in both China, France, and the UK, with three factories involved, and co-ordinated distribution fulfiment going in multiple directions to ensure we hit all distributors at the same time. We have to use pre-order sales to justify very large and expensive stock ordering with all three factories and coordinate assembly of all the different sets to ensure they are high quality and ship at the right time. It may seem messy but we don't rush things and do things at our own pace, it maybe frustrating because another company does it differently, but we're not forcing you to spend money now and would rather you wait if you're not sure. We have invested a vast sum of money in this and still have plenty to spend to get us to March (since we'll not stop developing now - we're already working on and investing in Wave 2 designs and development).
What is frustrating is the mixed messages and changing information that has occurred leading up to and immediately following the pre-order launch. It is entirely messy, it is confusing to keep information straight, and while it may have justification internally, externally it is off-putting. And really, that may be the most disappointing thing about the way this pre-order has been rolled out. Not being able to excitedly join in on the fun of pre-ordering because there is so much missing, or changing, information sucks. It seems like if you guys had waited a few more weeks a lot of these issues would have been resolved behind the scenes instead of correcting as you go publicly.
Perhaps its because I haven't been following it with a microscope, but it doesn't seem that messy to me. there was the resin/PVC questions and the price issue that needed to be fixed for the super early buyers. But besides that seems pretty straightforward. Our group looked at it day one, then decided over the next few days and we see they fixed prices. checked out all the items wed like and made our order.
Ive dealt with far more terrible releases/preorders in the past (dropfleet, anything from CMON, anything from SPM) so this is nothing
Many thanks for taking the time to write these posts Modiphius, is really appreciated!
I know the product isn't yet delivered, but I can tell you in comparison to how another lisenced project was run and their communications (AvP) so far this is at least 10,000 times better.
) So, keep an eye out for them.
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