Is the eye of Horus symbol a sort of chaos crux terminus? I hope so otherwise the thunder hammer lord is BL only...but it’s not like it’s the first model that features the eye...the oop metal daemon prince does for example. So no new sorcerer eh? I’m disappointed but only because the current sorcerer is failcast. Pretty good realease, but the terms were a bitter pill to swallow. I know I know, typical chaos player, whinging about new kits...but I really prefer the old one. There was a theory kicking around that the new term kit has been ready to produce for a while now, and is only now being rolled out. I saw a size comparison and they look smaller than the new havoks...anyone else seen it?
Lotus Corgi wrote: Is the eye of Horus symbol a sort of chaos crux terminus? I hope so otherwise the thunder hammer lord is BL only...but it’s not like it’s the first model that features the eye...the oop metal daemon prince does for example. So no new sorcerer eh? I’m disappointed but only because the current sorcerer is failcast. Pretty good realease, but the terms were a bitter pill to swallow. I know I know, typical chaos player, whinging about new kits...but I really prefer the old one. There was a theory kicking around that the new term kit has been ready to produce for a while now, and is only now being rolled out. I saw a size comparison and they look smaller than the new havoks...anyone else seen it?
The new havocs are big but the new terminators are bigger.
Remember, there's a regular space marine inside terminator armor, so they can't be *that* much larger than their brothers.
Also, yeah, the eye of horus is pretty readily used across the warp as a symbol of chaos and rebellion against the imperium.
was really disappointed when I realised the chaos space marines kit only has 7 boltpistols and 7 chainswords, now I'm gonna have to go on ebay/bits sites to find the last ~9 of each I need, obviously not as big a deal as the havoc or terminator kits but still...
So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.
My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.
My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.
Alexonian wrote: was really disappointed when I realised the chaos space marines kit only has 7 boltpistols and 7 chainswords, now I'm gonna have to go on ebay/bits sites to find the last ~9 of each I need, obviously not as big a deal as the havoc or terminator kits but still...
Do you not have any spare bolt pistols and chain swords? I know I've got tons
Alexonian wrote: was really disappointed when I realised the chaos space marines kit only has 7 boltpistols and 7 chainswords, now I'm gonna have to go on ebay/bits sites to find the last ~9 of each I need, obviously not as big a deal as the havoc or terminator kits but still...
I bet the two from the BSF game will show up as an easy to build set, they both have bolters.
Alexonian wrote: was really disappointed when I realised the chaos space marines kit only has 7 boltpistols and 7 chainswords, now I'm gonna have to go on ebay/bits sites to find the last ~9 of each I need, obviously not as big a deal as the havoc or terminator kits but still...
Do you not have any spare bolt pistols and chain swords? I know I've got tons
nope just (re)started chaos, but its okay as I said..Ebay will save me
Alexonian wrote: was really disappointed when I realised the chaos space marines kit only has 7 boltpistols and 7 chainswords, now I'm gonna have to go on ebay/bits sites to find the last ~9 of each I need, obviously not as big a deal as the havoc or terminator kits but still...
I bet the two from the BSF game will show up as an easy to build set, they both have bolters.
Not helping me if they do, want chainsword and boltpistols for my flawless host
Togusa wrote: So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.
My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.
My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.
Yep...that's why they're not actually 65 points per model. That's just a typo being abused.
Just a word of advise. Actually, bolt pistols and chain swords aren't exactly the best loadout. Most people go bolters. Maybe you want to consider magnetizing them. At a later stage, you might prefer them to be bolter CSM instead of pistol and chain sword.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Just a word of advise. Actually, bolt pistols and chain swords aren't exactly the best loadout. Most people go bolters. Maybe you want to consider magnetizing them. At a later stage, you might prefer them to be bolter CSM instead of pistol and chain sword.
I'm aware, never been the type to play what's best , and they don't take advantage of flawless host trait with bolters
Ah, I see you have a specific build in mind. In that case, knock yourself out!
Do consider though, if its additional attacks you want. World eaters get a guaranteed +1 attack each model and you don't lose veterans of the long war. And berserkers have so many attacks they will always be far and away the best melee infantry unit that CSM has. And world eaters can take zerkers as troop choices. So, while a 20 man flawless host CSM blob sounds good, a 20 man world eaters CSM blob will do better, and a 20 man zerker blob will do 2x, or 3x better.
Togusa wrote: So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.
My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.
My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.
Yep...that's why they're not actually 65 points per model. That's just a typo being abused.
RAW Codex supercedes until FAQ. I wouldn't say it's abuse, it's following RAW.
The Chaos Raptors kit is a great source of bits for Chaos Marines, with extra special weapons, bolt pistols, chainswords, and a bunch of other melee weapons as well, all in the 'new' style. You also get a bunch of variations on heads and shoulder pads.
Togusa wrote: So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.
My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.
My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.
Yep...that's why they're not actually 65 points per model. That's just a typo being abused.
RAW Codex supercedes until FAQ. I wouldn't say it's abuse, it's following RAW.
Nope. It's abusing an obvious typo to gain an advantage in a game of toy soldiers - then relying on the RAW as an excuse. I know loads of people are doing it, just really says a bit about them though.
GW's said nothing on subject and so far all this seems to amount to is 'I think it is unfair therefore I'll attack anyone who's playing by the rules by calling them a cheater!!!'.
Do consider though, if its additional attacks you want. World eaters get a guaranteed +1 attack each model and you don't lose veterans of the long war. And berserkers have so many attacks they will always be far and away the best melee infantry unit that CSM has. And world eaters can take zerkers as troop choices. So, while a 20 man flawless host CSM blob sounds good, a 20 man world eaters CSM blob will do better, and a 20 man zerker blob will do 2x, or 3x better.
It's not only about the Flawless Host CSM.
A Flawless Host Daemon Prince can easily have over 20 attacks in close combat.
A World Eater Daemon Prince can only dream of that.
Virules wrote: If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
I tend to agree with the 115 point figure being right but Reece doesn't have much weight. he's a play tester, I've play tested for other games before, sometimes you get a little bit of insight into how the devs work sure, but equal times the final product contains one or more decisions that just leaves you face palming thinking "why did they do this?"
GW's said nothing on subject and so far all this seems to amount to is 'I think it is unfair therefore I'll attack anyone who's playing by the rules by calling them a cheater!!!'.
GW Facebook team confirmed that it's a typo. We're all just waiting for it to come out in the FAQ.
tbh, I just don't play with an army UNTIL the FAQ comes out, so it's not a big deal to me.
GW's said nothing on subject and so far all this seems to amount to is 'I think it is unfair therefore I'll attack anyone who's playing by the rules by calling them a cheater!!!'.
GW Facebook team confirmed that it's a typo. We're all just waiting for it to come out in the FAQ.
tbh, I just don't play with an army UNTIL the FAQ comes out, so it's not a big deal to me.
Do you have a direct link to that confirmation? I've been asking on community posts for over a week and they never reply, to any of us that ask about this. Any time someone asks about rules, they always just say "watch this space."
This reminds me of the issue Tau had with the Cold Star Commander and wording on weapons. It was painfully obvious what was meant, but those who wanted the OP angle fought tooth and nail that they were right.....right up until the FAQ came out and clarified the obvious.
Togusa wrote: So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.
My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.
My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.
OK, so I'm firmly in the camp of 'no way 65ppm' but that aside, this example at the same time does show that 115ppm looks maybe a bit too expensive. I haven't gone and looked up the points, but if the Oblits were 345 per squad, none of them would have killed their points worth.
Just out of interest, would you have won the game even you had left 450 points' worth of other units off the table? You took out some annoying enemy units, perhaps it was enough to spoil your opponent's plans?
I ask because I have four of the new Oblits on my painting table and really love the models. So far, I've used a single one in two small games but it didn't get on well with my dice and was thus a total failure
They are worth 345 easily. If you use a MoP to get them to a good profile, Vets and Endless Cacophony, they one-shot a 3++ Castellan, which is probably undercosted at just over 600.
3 Oblits easily make back their points at 345 in just one shooting phase, even if you count in another 200-300 points or so of support stuff.
They are just less of a spam 9 of them and more of a use 3 and exploit synergies.
They should probably lose deepstrike and/or go up to 150+ to be even reasonably on par with other firesupport units in the game that aren’t a Castellan.
Sunny Side Up wrote: They are worth 345 easily. If you use a MoP to get them to a good profile, Vets and Endless Cacophony, they one-shot a 3++ Castellan, which is probably undercosted at just over 600.
3 Oblits easily make back their points at 345 in just one shooting phase, even if you count in another 200-300 points or so of support stuff.
They are just less of a spam 9 of them and more of a use 3 and exploit synergies.
They should probably lose deepstrike and/or go up to 150+ to be even reasonably on par with other firesupport units in the game that aren’t a Castellan.
Oblits are worth it easily if you get a specific unmobile sorcerer there, Mark them specifically and use 2 stratagems /turn on them and just them......
Also salty much about that last Paragraf?
If an Oblit is worth 150 a dreadnoughts should be 300.
Virules wrote: If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.
Virules wrote: Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.
Arachnofiend wrote: Are y'all really gonna play a game and try to convince your opponent your oblits are 65 points
The most up to date rules state this, obviously most people agree with it beeing a typo does however not matter due to the fact that you are bound to the up to date codex.
Arachnofiend wrote: Are y'all really gonna play a game and try to convince your opponent your oblits are 65 points
The most up to date rules state this, obviously most people agree with it beeing a typo does however not matter due to the fact that you are bound to the up to date codex.
Given that officially the new codex is technically optional since you can use the old codex+Vigilus Ablaze+Shadowspear, we aren't bound to the misprint. Maybe people should stop being TFG, hm?
Arachnofiend wrote: Are y'all really gonna play a game and try to convince your opponent your oblits are 65 points
The most up to date rules state this, obviously most people agree with it beeing a typo does however not matter due to the fact that you are bound to the up to date codex.
Given that officially the new codex is technically optional since you can use the old codex+Vigilus Ablaze+Shadowspear, we aren't bound to the misprint. Maybe people should stop being TFG, hm?
Absolutely, but GW is mainly to blame for it, due to them not releasing the FAQ for the older codexes yet.
Frankly this whole Codex 2.0 (nonmandatory) Shadowspear and CSM codex regular with vigilus atm is annoying as hell to deal with (also don't forget the index....)
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Given that officially the new codex is technically optional since you can use the old codex+Vigilus Ablaze+Shadowspear, we aren't bound to the misprint. Maybe people should stop being TFG, hm?
I think you're going to have a harder time convincing an opponent that you are not bound by their Chaos Codex than you would the price of Oblits are a mistake.
Maybe this helps? I dont think id play them at the old cost anyways because it feels funny. Going by this logic though, now that the codex is out it may be the correct cost, until faq’d.
However didn't the datasheet say 1 obliterator, then add 1 or 2? With at behind codex among point values unit size saying 3. So either way there's some typo anywhere. Ah well. Good thing I don't face chaos in week or two so doesn't affect me either way before faq clarifies.
tneva82 wrote: However didn't the datasheet say 1 obliterator, then add 1 or 2? With at below unit size saying 3. So either way there's some typo anywhere. Ah well. Good thing I don't face chaos in week or two so doesn't affect me either way before faq clarifies.
tneva82 wrote: However didn't the datasheet say 1 obliterator, then add 1 or 2? With at below unit size saying 3. So either way there's some typo anywhere. Ah well. Good thing I don't face chaos in week or two so doesn't affect me either way before faq clarifies.
At this point it just gets annoying imo.
I concur. For a case like this, a quick newsflash item on the commnity website could sort it out and everyone could go back to getting their knickers in a twist over something else already.
Yet GW said specially old codex + Vigilus is legal and same as new codex. Let's stop white knighting GW and demand they fix their error, having 2 versions of the same rules is insane.
GaroRobe wrote: Mallax was also shown off in the new codex, albeit as a nameless chaos champion with thunder hammer.
For those that like the model, it'll be a nice way to get him without having to pay ebay scalper price. I'm just not too fond of him. He's got the "wot" grandma face, and too many flesh wires all over him. His backpack looks like it'd be a nightmare to paint.
granted if your biggest issue with him is his head that'd be easy eneugh to address yeah?
Nope. I'm all for conversions, but his head looks too difficult to easily snip away at.
And you can see from this angle what I'm talking about in reference to the wires. That backpack is 90% wires. Maybe if someone painted it in another legion color scheme, I'd like it better.
Yea I want to like him but he's basically a tentacle in armour. I'm not sure I will get him.
I've modified heads on figures like that. As long as you don't mind losing the original, it's fairly easy. Cut off the topknot (save it if you like, there obviously aren't enough topknots around 40K) and mark a small hole in the centre of the top of the head. Drill into it with a smallish bit, 1mm-2mm. Then go larger and larger till the head is quite hollow. Once the plastic is thin enough you should be able to effectively "scoop" the remains out with a hobby blade, then it's just a case of cleanup.
Kirasu wrote: Yet GW said specially old codex + Vigilus is legal and same as new codex. Let's stop white knighting GW and demand they fix their error, having 2 versions of the same rules is insane.
Spoiler:
Two versions of the same rules isn't insanity, it's the infancy of a great random table.
Ok, I know it’s controversial, and there is a very high likelihood of the codex getting adjusted, but, from a players point of view only 1 points value is correct, and that is the latest points publication.
Shadowspear is already no longer on sale on the GW website (well listed as currently out of stock anyway and rumoured to have now finished from a store ordering pov).
If a new player goes into a store and goes, “Oh look, I’m going to start Chaos and buy some of the new models”, they are no longer going to have access to the Shadowspear mini-dexs. All they have available is the codex and the FAQ documents. As such, if someone then turns around and tells them they are wrong because of something in a book that is no longer available says something different, then how are they going to know it’s just not someone trying to “beat the noob”. And if you start aggressively arguing with technically no evidence that it’s wrong, then it’s also not going to give the new player, or any player, a good impression of you or the game and group.
TO’s at events might individually rule on this. But, until an FAQ drops and adjusts the points, all us non CSM players have just got to suck it up and be patient. No point in whining about it just because it doesn’t benefit us. (Yes, I know this is Dakka)
If it needs fixing, it’ll get fixed. They just need to do it before the 11th, as, that is the cut off point for list submissions for the Team Event at WHW this month. Failure to submit the FAQ before then will make me feel sad for including a single Gallant in my list.
Just wanna put my take on the Oblit disaster: We actually cannot apply the normal rules here that "updated" rules take precedence. Because we have a unique case here in which the "update" is optional.
The new profile and points cost in Shadow Spear for Oblits DOES take precedence, however the new Codex has been stated as OPTIONAL and has been "officially" stated as being Old Codex + Vigilus updates.
So in order to come to the LOGICAL solutions, we are going to have to use our brains until GW fixes this error. And, using our brains, we can determine that it IS an error for 2 Reasons: A) Oblits just got updated with 115ppm. It is unheard of for GW to change the point of an updated model within 2 weeks of releasing it, outside of an FAQ, which has yet to drop. B) Oblits in the new Codex list the unit size as 3, not 1-3 like the Spadowspear entry. This supports that the points costs were NOT updated, since both points and unit size are on the same line.
So we have a situation in which BOTH the Shadowspear and new Codex points costs are valid. (i.e one does not update the other since the new codex is optional) The only solution is to look at the evidence and arrive at the correct conclusion that the 65ppm cost is a typo that they just forgot to update.
If after you have seen this evidence, you still claim 65ppm is a valid cost, you're TFG and you should be required to take 3 Oblits per unit since that is what the Models per Unit says in the updated Codex.
Kdash wrote: Ok, I know it’s controversial, and there is a very high likelihood of the codex getting adjusted, but, from a players point of view only 1 points value is correct, and that is the latest points publication.
Shadowspear is already no longer on sale on the GW website (well listed as currently out of stock anyway and rumoured to have now finished from a store ordering pov).
If a new player goes into a store and goes, “Oh look, I’m going to start Chaos and buy some of the new models”, they are no longer going to have access to the Shadowspear mini-dexs. All they have available is the codex and the FAQ documents. As such, if someone then turns around and tells them they are wrong because of something in a book that is no longer available says something different, then how are they going to know it’s just not someone trying to “beat the noob”. And if you start aggressively arguing with technically no evidence that it’s wrong, then it’s also not going to give the new player, or any player, a good impression of you or the game and group.
TO’s at events might individually rule on this. But, until an FAQ drops and adjusts the points, all us non CSM players have just got to suck it up and be patient. No point in whining about it just because it doesn’t benefit us. (Yes, I know this is Dakka)
If it needs fixing, it’ll get fixed. They just need to do it before the 11th, as, that is the cut off point for list submissions for the Team Event at WHW this month. Failure to submit the FAQ before then will make me feel sad for including a single Gallant in my list.
I totally agree that new players should be able to take stuff at face value when they buy a legally valid book. However, 40K has NEVER been able to do this outside of the few months after 8E dropped and EVERYONE was Index only with no older rules or FAQs altering anything. 40k is just way too complicated and releases far too many new rules for new players to ever be able to just pick up the latest book and be fine. Heck, many casual players might not even keep up (or care) about FAQs.
I heard shadowspear is on its way to being discontinued already. Had a google and only found one guy on youtube on about it so I dont know how true it is.
Obliterators in chaos sm book 2.0 have them at a power level of 6, which is the updated version found in shadowspear. GW needs to do their job and shoot out a quick FAQ on the points typo. There is no "oh it has a long printer production cycle" BS excuse because they updated the PL!
Dropbear Victim wrote: I heard shadowspear is on its way to being discontinued already. Had a google and only found one guy on youtube on about it so I dont know how true it is.
Spoiler:
It is a battle box, right? I assume it will be the same as any other one.
Dropbear Victim wrote: I heard shadowspear is on its way to being discontinued already. Had a google and only found one guy on youtube on about it so I dont know how true it is.
Spoiler:
This is standard issue nonsense whenever something goes "Temporarily Out of Stock Online".
If it's "being discontinued already", that means there would be no way to get any Vanguard stuff for the Marines.
tneva82 wrote: Well not that requirement to take 3 broken good models is exactly hindrance
Not at all, however if you take only 1 per unit, it might "slip under the radar" for some opponents. Taking 3 will make it obvious and hopefully someone taking 3 at 65ppm, will get called out on this BS. "Legal" or not, we can plainly see this isn't the correct points cost. Taking advantage of an oversight like this shows want kind of player you are and making it obvious might lead to the rejection of pick up games against you. So, the "hindrance" is you not getting to play 40K anymore. At least not with friends who just wanna have fun with plastic figures and dice.
It might also mean that someone playing with the new model would need to buy 2 ShadowSpears for a "legal" minimum unit since it only comes with 2. So they'd have to spend significant cash for this abuse. Only to have that wasted when GW fixes the issue
On the Brightside, this disaster creates an opportunity for GW to put out an official update to their points, which could be less than 115ppm. Because even though there is no way it is supposed to be 65ppm, 115ppm is a bit on the high side for them. 100-105 seems a bit better
Kirasu wrote: Obliterators in chaos sm book 2.0 have them at a power level of 6, which is the updated version found in shadowspear. GW needs to do their job and shoot out a quick FAQ on the points typo. There is no "oh it has a long printer production cycle" BS excuse because they updated the PL!
Gw doesn't do fast faq's. They have their faq cycle and if we are lucky they stick with it. They never put the official clarification on da jump to faq for months either...
Next week should be answer unless big faq delays it
So, I know this is a bit preemptive, but do you guys think the next campaign book will finally bring the BAngels into the lime light and give them a formation thingy/maybe even a Primarised Dante? I know there was that rumour a while back about the 3rd campaign book being about BAngels, though can't remember where that was said. A Calgar treatment on Dante would probably get me to paint my Space Vampires again, and it seems like ages since the last time BAngels saw some love, except for maybe that winged chaplain figure with that disturbingly expensive book and tokens.
Togusa wrote: So, Obliterators are insanely good at 65ppm. 1 deepstriking unit of mine did 21 damage to a rhino today, then activated EK and did 20 wounds to a 5 man plasma squad that was inside it, killing them outright.
My second squad did 17 damage to my opponents suppressor squad, and Oblit squad three wiped a 10 man unit of bolters, freeing up Sgt. Tellion to be charged and killed with chainswords.
My first squad pulled off a 12 inch charge later that turn and obliterated an entire squad of Eliminators. A sorcerer with Warp Time and Presience is also so good with Oblits.
OK, so I'm firmly in the camp of 'no way 65ppm' but that aside, this example at the same time does show that 115ppm looks maybe a bit too expensive. I haven't gone and looked up the points, but if the Oblits were 345 per squad, none of them would have killed their points worth.
Just out of interest, would you have won the game even you had left 450 points' worth of other units off the table? You took out some annoying enemy units, perhaps it was enough to spoil your opponent's plans?
I ask because I have four of the new Oblits on my painting table and really love the models. So far, I've used a single one in two small games but it didn't get on well with my dice and was thus a total failure
Oh no, I lost the game due to the objectives. My opponets interceptors gave him the maneuverability he needed to capture both his base and mine. Our mission dictated that the person who owns both bases for a turn auto wins (Maelstrom cards missions). In addition, while the Oblits were great, they were quite easy to kill, even after he lost two of his armies heaviest hitters. When the game ended, I only have 1 of the oblits left on the table.
65 might be too little, but 115 is absurd. 90 seems a lot more realistic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sunny Side Up wrote: They are worth 345 easily. If you use a MoP to get them to a good profile, Vets and Endless Cacophony, they one-shot a 3++ Castellan, which is probably undercosted at just over 600.
3 Oblits easily make back their points at 345 in just one shooting phase, even if you count in another 200-300 points or so of support stuff.
They are just less of a spam 9 of them and more of a use 3 and exploit synergies.
They should probably lose deepstrike and/or go up to 150+ to be even reasonably on par with other firesupport units in the game that aren’t a Castellan.
Can't use VoTLW as a renegade chapter.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
Yep.
I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
Yep.
I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.
So +1 to wound army wide is dumb.
But,
BS 2+ Rerolling 1's isn't? (Might as well not roll and just put a rule in that says one guy always misses and the rest will always hit)
Damage 2 ap-1 custodian bolters isn't?
Castellan Knights gun being 3D3 shots isn't?
Army wide AP-4 or both Genestealers and Eldar Shuriken weapons isn't?
Why is it only ever stupid when a Chaos fan would like something at least good?
Remember, Eldar pilots get in tanks and act normally.
Deamon engines, tanks, defilers, cultists. They can't have legion traits, making them all effectively useless.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
Yep.
I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.
So +1 to wound army wide is dumb.
But,
BS 2+ Rerolling 1's isn't? (Might as well not roll and just put a rule in that says one guy always misses and the rest will always hit)
Damage 2 ap-1 custodian bolters isn't?
Castellan Knights gun being 3D3 shots isn't?
Army wide AP-4 or both Genestealers and Eldar Shuriken weapons isn't?
Why is it only ever stupid when a Chaos fan would like something at least good?
Remember, Eldar pilots get in tanks and act normally.
Deamon engines, tanks, defilers, cultists. They can't have legion traits, making them all effectively useless.
Of course the Daemon Engines and Cultists shouldn't get Legion traits. In not disagreeing on the vehicles bit trust me, but both the former aren't Marines.
Also a +1 to wound on everything goes a lot further than the rending effect of Shuriken weapons, Custodes are already 45 points minimum so complaining about their weapon being good is silly, and everyone knows Castellans are broken.
Losing deepstrike would make them instant garbage. They move 4 inches with 24 inch guns.
Well, that's the general problem with pointing units in the context of "free" chapter rules, buffs, strats, aura abilities, etc..
Do you point Obliterators in line with a reasonably efficient combo, or do you point them to be good in the least effective way you can run them?
Do you point the Castellan as House Raven with a bucket of CP and a good screen, or do you point the Castellan as close combat Knight House running at the opponent?
Do you point Guilliman for his synergy in an Ultramarines army as well as his statline or do you point him for the least efficient Imperium Army you can put him in?
Do you point Shining Spears to be fairly priced as Ynnari or do you point them to work as little MSU units spammed in an Iyanden army without psykers?
Of course there're gonna be bad combos where Oblits (or any 300+ unit in any army) won't work.
I just think VoTLW should have been the army rule, and Death to the False Emperor should have been the stratagem.
Even Eldar, who get a faction specific rule, also get Battle Focus in addition.
You think all chaos marine units should be +1 to wound at all times with all weapons?
Yep.
I love dumb ideas as much as the next guy, but that's a really dumb idea.
So +1 to wound army wide is dumb.
But,
BS 2+ Rerolling 1's isn't? (Might as well not roll and just put a rule in that says one guy always misses and the rest will always hit)
Damage 2 ap-1 custodian bolters isn't?
Castellan Knights gun being 3D3 shots isn't?
Army wide AP-4 or both Genestealers and Eldar Shuriken weapons isn't?
Why is it only ever stupid when a Chaos fan would like something at least good?
Remember, Eldar pilots get in tanks and act normally.
Deamon engines, tanks, defilers, cultists. They can't have legion traits, making them all effectively useless.
Of course the Daemon Engines and Cultists shouldn't get Legion traits. In not disagreeing on the vehicles bit trust me, but both the former aren't Marines.
Also a +1 to wound on everything goes a lot further than the rending effect of Shuriken weapons, Custodes are already 45 points minimum so complaining about their weapon being good is silly, and everyone knows Castellans are broken.
Only INFANTRY and BIKERS get to use VotLW, no? I like the idea of making that the army rule and DttFE the strat. That way, you get something that sets CSM apart from the loyalists, works against everyone and isn't situational. Sort of like a Chaos version of having Primaris Marines.
Virules wrote: If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.
Virules wrote: Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.
What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.
If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.
And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.
If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.
Virules wrote: If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.
Virules wrote: Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.
What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.
If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.
And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.
If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.
You'd ban a guy who bought a new codex and used the points printed? Shadowspear isn't even in stock nor are the rules sold separately.
It is totally GWs fault, yet again, for being unable to handle point changes but let's not be extreme.
Virules wrote: If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.
Virules wrote: Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.
What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.
If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.
And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.
If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.
You'd ban a guy who bought a new codex and used the points printed? Shadowspear isn't even in stock nor are the rules sold separately.
It is totally GWs fault, yet again, for being unable to handle point changes but let's not be extreme.
I personally would not "ban" someone for an honest mistake, especially since it is currently a mess ATM. Mistakes can happen. What I would do, however, is explain why 65ppm is incorrect and have that person adjust their list accordingly be we play. Ya know, have a discussion like adults.
If they player refuses, well I guess they'll get someone else to play, or I'd have to quickly add 100+pts to my list so that both sides are equal. If it's a tourney, obviously the TOs judgment stands
If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.
So a newer player that doesn't know how all this works and probably doesn't read message boards shows up to their first event with a list made from the Codex and gets banned because of an issue they're entirely ignorant about? Where's your local area? Cause I'd like to know where NOT to play if you guys are that extreme about a silly table top game.
Guys, can we drop the hyperbole and ranting about the point costs of oblits? The newest publication is the 2.0 codex, so that takes precedence and they're 65pts and come in units of three. Is that a mistake? Probably, but there is no way to know what GW "meant" them to be priced at in the codex. Warglaives changed in cost between their release in Forgebane and the knight codex a couple of months later (and we can all come up with a pile of units whose costs are bafflingly far from reality). It could be 115, it could be 85, it could even be more. We just have to wait until the faq. I'm sure everyone can hold off for a week.
And before anyone starts complaining about bias, I don't play chaos, I'm just tired of checking in to see what the news might be and getting the same dross.
If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.
So a newer player that doesn't know how all this works and probably doesn't read message boards shows up to their first event with a list made from the Codex and gets banned because of an issue they're entirely ignorant about? Where's your local area? Cause I'd like to know where NOT to play if you guys are that extreme about a silly table top game.
I thru my shadow spear pamphlet in the trash before knowing about this rules controversy. Since it's safe to assume the book should be correct over a rules pamphlet from a unavailable box set. It's a strange situation and tbh no one is wrong here. It was probably a mistake, but no one should be put down for playing it as the rules have been given to them.
Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.
tneva82 wrote: Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.
Yes. The players useing a OOP verstion of the book.
tneva82 wrote: Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.
Yes. The players useing a OOP verstion of the book.
That's not correct. GWs official statement is to use old codex + vigilus OR new codex. The 115 pts for oblits only appear in the shadowspear boxset, which is not either of those books.
Its obviously a typo, but GW makes an incredible amount of errors. If GW says to use codex + Vigilus as the official documents for CSM, why is a player wrong for using those?
Again, to repeat, the updated points for oblits are NOT in Vigilus Ablaze.
Virules wrote: If you think it's not a typo REMOVED - RULE #1 PLEASE Baffles the mind that anyone think it is 65 points.
Firstly, nice personal attack to anyone who disagrees with you. Secondly, who cares if it's a mistake or not? Right now we don't know it is, and to insult anyone who plays it the way its written is pretty poor form, mate.
Virules wrote: Also, Reece has said it's obviously 115 not 65. If anyone would know it would be him.
Reece is a great guy, and has a really weird voice, but honestly who gives a gak what he said. He's not GW.
What do you mean, who cares if it's a mistake? You can't be serious. It's an obvious print typo that makes a unit half of what it's supposed to cost based on the same rules published at almost the exact same time as the codex.
If there was a print typo that put Castellans at half of what they are supposed to cost everybody would be up in arms not to use the obvious printing mistake, but because in this case it happens to be for a Chaos unit some people play, those players are trying to claim it's legitimate until proven otherwise. So sad and inane.
And FYI Reece is a GW playtester who helped GW test the new Oblits in the first place and he and the rest of the playtesters spearhead many of the points changes including playtesting the game-wide changes in the recent CA. So if anyone would know whether it's a printing mistake, it's him. Pretending this isn't on obvious typo is obtuse, but pretending confirmation of the typo from someone who helps influence the points and knows of points changes in advance is extra obtuse.
If anybody tried to show up at any of the many RTTs and GTs in my area right now and claim that their new datasheet Oblits should be 65 points in their list instead of almost double that, they would get laughed at and then booted from the event, regardless which of our many local TOs was running the event. And it would possibly be grounds for getting banned from that TO's events for trying to be intentionally obtuse about a rules mistake in order to exploit a typo for advantage.
Offical GW Rules says the CODEX IS CORRECT UNTIL AN FAQ ADDRESSES IT.
It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
tneva82 wrote: Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.
Not to mention the people using power points with their 6 point Obliterators, which does line up across new codex and Shadowspear, just looking around and wondering what all this fuss is about.
I'm hoping (for the sake of my own sanity) this is all just internet posturing and in real life everyone here is (on the one side) ready to give players the benefit of the doubt and assume they're just reading the book at face value and aren't aware of the inconsistencies. On the other side, when this is calmly explained to them I'm sure people will take the sportsmanlike path and voluntarily not abuse an obvious mistake.
I'm now going to take my tiny flickering flame of faith in human decency, lock it in a lead-lined sarcophagus and never open this thread again.
Togusa wrote: It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
Good luck explaining why an already powerful unit got an increase in stats AND points in it's first release, only to have that new points cost ignored 2 weeks later in an OBVIOUS oversight. And it is obvious given to copy=paste nature of the points line (which still has the "3" for models per unit, not 1-3 like the new datasheet) Further evidence is with Shadowspear only including 2 Oblits, not 3. If the points are 100% 65ppm as you claim, the minimum units size also must be 3 as above, so GW doesn't even sell the minimum unit size in 1 box.
This is obviously a new situation that must have some logic applied, rather that parroting: Current Codex is correct! over and over
GaroRobe wrote: Feel free to post any conversions that you can find of him. Looking at the 360 spin, it doesn't seem worth the effort. His chest wire connects directly into his head, so you'd need to fix that with greenstuff. Then you'd have to cut away at some of his fur cape, file down the helmet's neck joint, and see if it'd fit. I'm not saying it's impossible. I don't think it's worth the effort.
Would I like him better with the right helmet? Probably. Is it worth buying the model for? Not in my humble opinion.
Edit: This actually does look pretty cool.
Spoiler:
I changed his head and I just cut off the old one and put a new one in. Looks great and was super easy.
Togusa wrote: It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
Good luck explaining why an already powerful unit got an increase in stats AND points in it's first release, only to have that new points cost ignored 2 weeks later in an OBVIOUS oversight.
And it is obvious given to copy=paste nature of the points line (which still has the "3" for models per unit, not 1-3 like the new datasheet)
Further evidence is with Shadowspear only including 2 Oblits, not 3. If the points are 100% 65ppm as you claim, the minimum units size also must be 3 as above, so GW doesn't even sell the minimum unit size in 1 box.
This is obviously a new situation that must have some logic applied, rather that parroting: Current Codex is correct! over and over
Just ignore the people that play 65 ppm oblits right now. I don't know why people keep coming back to this issue.
Also, the balance of obliterators, and the arguments that have gone back and forth in this thread for PAGES, clearly shows there's a lot of thought that GW has to put into the point cost and balancing of their units. It's almost like that's why they're the game designers and we aren't... Funny.
Togusa wrote: It doesn't matter if "we all know it's wrong"- Which we don't, by the way. Until an FAQ is relased, they are 65 points, end of discussion.
Good luck explaining why an already powerful unit got an increase in stats AND points in it's first release, only to have that new points cost ignored 2 weeks later in an OBVIOUS oversight.
And it is obvious given to copy=paste nature of the points line (which still has the "3" for models per unit, not 1-3 like the new datasheet)
Further evidence is with Shadowspear only including 2 Oblits, not 3. If the points are 100% 65ppm as you claim, the minimum units size also must be 3 as above, so GW doesn't even sell the minimum unit size in 1 box.
This is obviously a new situation that must have some logic applied, rather that parroting: Current Codex is correct! over and over
-
That's great, and when the FAQ makes a change, I will then adapt accordingly. Until then, I will play the RAW, just like everyone else!
I mean the point cost could be wrong because of shadowspear, but it could also be that shadowspear was finished and boxed, before the codex was written and packed, and some point between production on the two that they decided they over costed them.
I recall that we have had rules change between box set release and codex release before, I believe it happened with both Genestealer cults and deathwatch back in 7th.
GW updated the new Codex, except the points for Obliterators.
And we just know that's what they did, without any word at all that there's been a mistake from GW? We're just assuming, right?
Seems a bit odd they would miss that, but whatever- I'd rather get the official word on it than bicker with some screecher over a single unit.
The reason this is considered a mistake is that it contradicts the data sheet. The sheet says 1 Oblit, with the option to add 1 or 2 more. This is a squad size of 1-3.
The Shadowspear points costs say unit size is 1-3 at 115 points per.
The Codex v2 says unit size of 3 at 65 ppm.
The data sheets are identical, so it's pretty clear that the points costs here aren't correct, specifically because of the contradicting information between the data sheet and the points list.
But this means that you should be playing 3 per squad if you want to run them at 65 per. That's not hard since there's really a huge incentive to run 9 at this point cost. Those with big collections totally can, but someone who just picked up one box of Shadowspear technically can't even play their new unit, right?
And that's really the biggest question I have: wouldn't there be an issue if you try and play a unit of 2, or two single Oblits considering the points list clearly says the unit must be 3 strong?
If that's the case, then that seems to me as a much much bigger issue than the power gamer trying to win with all the cheese they can.
tneva82 wrote: Well if it's not mistake poor chaos players who believed you don't need chaos codex 2.0 like GW claimed and just have old+vigilus. They are stuck with 115 pts oblits while basically autolosing to 9 65 pts oblis on opposing side.
Yes. The players useing a OOP verstion of the book.
That's not correct. GWs official statement is to use old codex + vigilus OR new codex. The 115 pts for oblits only appear in the shadowspear boxset, which is not either of those books.
Its obviously a typo, but GW makes an incredible amount of errors. If GW says to use codex + Vigilus as the official documents for CSM, why is a player wrong for using those?
Again, to repeat, the updated points for oblits are NOT in Vigilus Ablaze.
You can no longer buy the original book.... Only the V2 one. The original CSM book is factually Out of Print. It's a Awkward statement to say something out of print is more valid then the new book.
I fully expect the obliterator point cost to get FAQ'd, the same way I expect Fallen Sorcerer's in Imperial armies being able to summon chaos demons was also a mistake. Both these things were most likely mistakes, but doesn't mean GW couldn't surprise us. For we all know GW could come out tomorrow and say the shadowspear pamphlet was the mistake. This is really just up to gaming groups and TO's to decide until GW fixes their mistakes.
This is just the age old issue of RAW vs. RAI shenanigans we've all seen before.
Can we take this discussion elsewhere now please? Try and keep this thread for any new News and Rumours.
Agreed. Y'all can beat that dead horse somewhere else.
As is, the last bits that we need are the Dark Apostle and Master of Executions.
I see the Dark Apostle as being really important and thematically awesome, but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.
Can we take this discussion elsewhere now please? Try and keep this thread for any new News and Rumours.
Agreed. Y'all can beat that dead horse somewhere else.
As is, the last bits that we need are the Dark Apostle and Master of Executions.
I see the Dark Apostle as being really important and thematically awesome, but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.
The model looks like great converstion fodder for Exalted champs and Chaos Lords to me at least.
[...]but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.
He's a cheap HQ and he hit's quite hard.
As far as heroic interventions go, he's not half-bad.
His main issue is that he's added to an army that doesn't really need him.
As for the model itself, to each his own I suppose, but I don't really like him either.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I'm hoping there are some alternate heads for the MoE and DA. Otherwise, I at least hope those heads can be easily swapped.
There's at least one alternate head for the MoE, but the Dark Apostle likely doesn't have an alternate head. That said, there's butt-tons of heads in all the new kits that would look great on him.
MoE actually looks like a great opportunity to include some of the many, many cool AoS chaos champions, slaughterpriests, deathbringers or whatever the various flavours are called.
I know many people would not like to see 40k lean towards the over the top fantasy style, but then again, lots of people already like to use AoS chaos for their CSM.
The more primal look of the actual models gear and waepon should make the connection to fantasy models open.
Redemption wrote: Noticed this WHTV schedule. Curious what the campaign update is.
Yeah, discussing this instead is better.
I’m gonna assume it’s perhaps info on where the campaign goes from here.
Or on the next one. As they said they have several planned all featuring various factions etc.
I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.
Tyranid Horde wrote: I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.
Your average HQ price likely but maybee more due to him beeing "special"
Tyranid Horde wrote: I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.
Your average HQ price likely but maybee more due to him beeing "special"
I hate it already, I'm hoping he's not too bad considering he's pushfit.
Tyranid Horde wrote: I wonder how much they're planning on charging for Obsidius Mallex as a stand alone model? While being push fit, he does have some capacity for conversions if anyone wanted to take a knife to him.
Dark apostle is £22.50
Master of executions is £15
Chaos lord is also £15
The obliterator “mistake” is in the updated enhanced edition too, annoyingly. I though it might help clear things up but it doesn’t.
I thought the update would include all the Vigilus Ablaze stuff but it doesn’t. The new black legion and renegade stuff isn’t in there - just the datasheets. As such I can’t imagine why anyone would buy the update rather than VA. luckily for me it’s a free download for people with the electronic version.
Albertorius wrote: I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.
I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...
When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.
Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.
The red/gold scheme was for the Crimson Slaughter, who have rules in the codex (despite being wiped out to seven or so marines.)
That scheme came out with Dark Vengeance, and since some new marines also came out at the time, a lot of the range was painted that way. Since it's the Black Legion in the spotlight and in the starter set, they're back to black. You can still see the scheme in a few of the models on the website, but they're mistakenly placed next to a Word Bearer's symbol. (Despite word bearers being red and silver, not red and gold)
Albertorius wrote: I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.
I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...
When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.
Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.
Hmmm, had no such problems myself. I glued the trophy rack on to the main model but did leave the cape seperate. The only piece of the cape I did not join up when painting it seperate was the tiny end piece that attaches to the shoulder piece. Totally agree on painting the cape seperately though, I also initially left him off the base, am happy with my effort.
Albertorius wrote: I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.
I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...
When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.
Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.
Hmmm, had no such problems myself. I glued the trophy rack on to the main model but did leave the cape seperate. The only piece of the cape I did not join up when painting it seperate was the tiny end piece that attaches to the shoulder piece. Totally agree on painting the cape seperately though, I also initially left him off the base, am happy with my effort.
Spoiler:
He looks great!
Yeah, the only reason I had issues was because I'd had both shoulderpads attached to the cape. I ended up having to remove the shoulderpad that connects to the right arm from the cape which solved the fit issue without any damage.
Figured I'd just make sure I shared that insight with anyone working on an Abaddon!
l2c wrote: Is there a reason they've more or less dropped the red&gold color scheme for CSMs, and decalsheets not having Khorne symbols on them?
I havent noticed this. The sheets I have at least have CS, Corsairs, and the core 9. They have god decals in equal amounts.
Mandragola wrote: The obliterator “mistake” is in the updated enhanced edition too, annoyingly. I though it might help clear things up but it doesn’t.
I thought the update would include all the Vigilus Ablaze stuff but it doesn’t. The new black legion and renegade stuff isn’t in there - just the datasheets. As such I can’t imagine why anyone would buy the update rather than VA. luckily for me it’s a free download for people with the electronic version.
It's only for new players essentially. If you have the original you won't get as much out of it.
l2c wrote: Is there a reason they've more or less dropped the red&gold color scheme for CSMs, and decalsheets not having Khorne symbols on them?
I havent noticed this. The sheets I have at least have CS, Corsairs, and the core 9. They have god decals in equal amounts.
Mandragola wrote: The obliterator “mistake” is in the updated enhanced edition too, annoyingly. I though it might help clear things up but it doesn’t.
I thought the update would include all the Vigilus Ablaze stuff but it doesn’t. The new black legion and renegade stuff isn’t in there - just the datasheets. As such I can’t imagine why anyone would buy the update rather than VA. luckily for me it’s a free download for people with the electronic version.
It's only for new players essentially. If you have the original you won't get as much out of it.
I got the new 'dex because I found it really irritating having datasheets and points values thrown all over the place. It's a shame the codex doesn't include the Vigilus specialist detachments and renegade chapter stuff but I'm finding it so much handier for looking stuff up. And I'm a hardcover book geek, too.
Albertorius wrote: I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.
I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...
When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.
Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.
Hmmm, had no such problems myself. I glued the trophy rack on to the main model but did leave the cape seperate. The only piece of the cape I did not join up when painting it seperate was the tiny end piece that attaches to the shoulder piece. Totally agree on painting the cape seperately though, I also initially left him off the base, am happy with my effort.
Spoiler:
He looks great!
Yeah, the only reason I had issues was because I'd had both shoulderpads attached to the cape. I ended up having to remove the shoulderpad that connects to the right arm from the cape which solved the fit issue without any damage.
Figured I'd just make sure I shared that insight with anyone working on an Abaddon!
Ah, I see. The cape is a very snug fit so can see why you had an issue there. But it is one of my favourite miniatures to construct ever, an instant classic.
Sotahullu wrote: Although the Red and Gold color scheme was for Crimson Slaugter (pretty cool background) rather then World Eaters that has exactly same colour scheme.
I've always thought the color scheme for the chapter was just terrible:
GW's logic:
We've got
Red & gold fighty evil marines
Red & silver demon pact evil marines
Red & black & gold recently fallen, quickly corrupted evil marines
You know what we're missing? Red & gold fighty demon pact marines that have recently fallen and were quickly corrupted! That fills a necessary niche!
Albertorius wrote: I received my Abaddon yesterday, and I must say that I am very, very impressed with it. Serious piece of engineering, and a very lovely model.
I can't remember if I posted it in this thread or not, but...
When you build Abaddon, if you want him to have the cape? Build the side with Drachnyen all the way up even if you are leaving the cape off for painting and DO NOT GLUE THE TROPHY RACK TO ABADDON. The cape has an attachment point on the trophy rack that makes it extremely difficult to refit it if the trophy rack is on and you've attached both shoulderpads to the cape.
Leaving the trophy rack, shoulderpads, and cape as one component for painting is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge timesaver and all of them can be pressurefitted to Abaddon when you're priming.
Thanks for the pointer. I will definitely do that once it comes time to build my Abby.
Red Corsairs too, right? Sure, they have black mixed in, but it's still pretty close.
World Eaters - primarily Red with Gold/Brass accents Word Bearers - primarily a deep Red with SILVER accents Red Corsairs - Are both Red + Black in equal proportions, typically asymmetrically so, with Gold/Brass accents
Crimson Slaughter are neigh indistinguishable from World Eaters, aside from maybe a brighter red and more Gold over Brass.
It's safe to say, however that Chaos favor Red, Black and Gold in generally.
Good thing the Thousand Sons swapped from Red to blue.
Though, there are warbands that have the original color scheme, and they look great. Easier to tell the difference between Rubic Marines and regular CSMs to be fair.
Redemption wrote: Or the Sorcerer is for a future Blackstone Fortress expansion or some other board game.
Or it's in wave 2 assuming gw release multipart obliterators/ mutilators, multipart venom crawler, maybe a set of greater possessed if we're lucky
I could see a second wave if those multipart kits appear in the other CSM factions like TS/DG when they inevitably end up featuring in the next campaign setting.
Can we take this discussion elsewhere now please? Try and keep this thread for any new News and Rumours.
Agreed. Y'all can beat that dead horse somewhere else.
As is, the last bits that we need are the Dark Apostle and Master of Executions.
I see the Dark Apostle as being really important and thematically awesome, but the Master of Executions seems to have come out of nowhere and... I dunno, I'm not impressed by the model or his rules.
The model looks like great converstion fodder for Exalted champs and Chaos Lords to me at least.
I'm contemplating using it for a biggerized Fabius Bile conversion.
So no more csm preorders next week right? we're done for now.
I've been holding off on buying anything other than the limited time offers so I can buy everythign at once..
Roknar wrote: So no more csm preorders next week right? we're done for now.
I've been holding off on buying anything other than the limited time offers so I can buy everythign at once..
presumably. barring any suprises but I think they're done.
All I need from the new Chaos Marine kits are the bits sites gettng them so I can buy some backpacks and a couple weapons/bodies.. dont need the full kits.
porkuslime wrote: All I need from the new Chaos Marine kits are the bits sites gettng them so I can buy some backpacks and a couple weapons/bodies.. dont need the full kits.
shouldn't be tooo hard depending on what you're looking for.
Roknar wrote: So no more csm preorders next week right? we're done for now.
I've been holding off on buying anything other than the limited time offers so I can buy everythign at once..
GW on the matter, from today's Wargammer Community article:
On the Warhammer 40,000 side, we’re finishing up a massive Chaos Space Marines release with some Character models...
We have the codex out now, right? Any model would have been shown off by now, either through actual pics from the book or the rules. More chaos will come eventually (that sorcerer backpack) but for now, this release is at an end
What appears to clearly be a new chaos sorcerer backpack was shown in the rumor engine. Maby they planned for release him during this launch, but decided to hold him for a Wave 2. Or just as a filler release week over the summer or something.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Does anybody know what the hole in the top of the venomcrawler is for?
I wanna say we'll find out when the full kit comes out. that said sometimes GW is odd that way, remember when Imperial Knights came out? they all had a hole that eventually saw a new kit that filled it with a carapiece weapon
I mean that said it ooks like thgere should be another connector for the "spikes" as it's kind of a structural weapk point as the model currently stands
Gordon Shumway wrote: Does anybody know what the hole in the top of the venomcrawler is for?
Haven't a clue. When I was building mine I though it might be for the spiky rack but it is not. The rack itself also blocks it from having anything mounted in it too. It wasn't for the photographs of the GW one, I would have thought I did something wrong in building it. All I can think is if it gets its own, separate release in the future it might be another weapon hard point or something. Until then, I am glad it is largely hidden when viewed on the tabletop.
So if Shadowspear is removed from shelves, I presume we're looking at a second wave of kits with the release of the plastic Obliterator and the Venomcrawler?
Well obviously. No kit stays forever as boxed set only. Might take a long especially with HQ's but everything comes separately at higher price while boxed sets goes away from giving stuff cheaply.
tneva82 wrote: Well obviously. No kit stays forever as boxed set only.
Plastic Deffkopter. Warboss. Chaos Cultists (outside of the 5 sculpts from the push-fit box). I'm sure there are a few from Warhammer as well.
Don't forget the Chaos Chosen. Those would have been nice to have in a separate box set.
Back on the AoS side, we've got the khorgorath, bloodsecrator, the skull helmed stormcast, pretty much all the HQs in the old starter set, most of the island of blood set, etc. It wouldn't be the worst idea for GW to release each side of the start sets as start collecting, like they did with the stormcast and khorne armies
The Ork, Cultists, Chosen, AoS Khorne, and High Elfs... while all that was exclusive to those big boxed sets, those boxed sets were available for a while, rather indefinitely at the time. Word being GW isn't doing anymore runs of Shadowspear; if the Shadowspear miniatures weren't given separate kits this would be the shortest availability of miniatures exclusive to this size of boxed sets.
I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
stahly wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
This is something I keep pointing out with regards to Shadowspear.
This is the first time they've done a Battlebox like this where the contents are so easily broken down into two Start Collectings that let them expand the offerings from the actual Starter set or even branch out into having "Easy Build Army" sets.
Shame that these would most likely be in the upper price range of the SC sets. Should have picked the sides off ebay when they were still 85$ a piece :(
stahly wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
This is something I keep pointing out with regards to Shadowspear.
This is the first time they've done a Battlebox like this where the contents are so easily broken down into two Start Collectings that let them expand the offerings from the actual Starter set or even branch out into having "Easy Build Army" sets.
Remember death watch overkill. Those mono pose hybrids were lost forever. So it may not happen to protect the new multipart kits.
stahly wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
This is something I keep pointing out with regards to Shadowspear.
This is the first time they've done a Battlebox like this where the contents are so easily broken down into two Start Collectings that let them expand the offerings from the actual Starter set or even branch out into having "Easy Build Army" sets.
Remember death watch overkill. Those mono pose hybrids were lost forever. So it may not happen to protect the new multipart kits.
Deathwatch Overkill was also on sale for quite a long time.
Shadowspear, on the other hand, launched a few weeks before the new CSM multipart kits.
tneva82 wrote: Well obviously. No kit stays forever as boxed set only. Might take a long especially with HQ's but everything comes separately at higher price while boxed sets goes away from giving stuff cheaply.
stahly wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
This is something I keep pointing out with regards to Shadowspear.
This is the first time they've done a Battlebox like this where the contents are so easily broken down into two Start Collectings that let them expand the offerings from the actual Starter set or even branch out into having "Easy Build Army" sets.
Remember death watch overkill. Those mono pose hybrids were lost forever. So it may not happen to protect the new multipart kits.
which is possiable yeah but we'll likely get multipart kits all the same. it strikes me as pretty likely that the oblits won't be exact matches for the new ones TBH. the CSM squad in shadowspear, for example, isn't possiable with the CSM kit (you need to salvage the autocanon from the new Havoks)
There are too many new units in Shadowspear for them to keep them to that box. If GW wants anyone to use some of those units long term, especially Obliterators, Greater Possessed, and the Venomcrawlers, they need their own boxes.
If they don't well... You just wont see that many of them on the table because they'll be too hard to get, and then in the future they'll disappear from the rulebook because they have no models to support the rules and then everyone will be wondering why the heck they support this company.
drbored wrote: There are too many new units in Shadowspear for them to keep them to that box. If GW wants anyone to use some of those units long term, especially Obliterators, Greater Possessed, and the Venomcrawlers, they need their own boxes.
If they don't well... You just wont see that many of them on the table because they'll be too hard to get, and then in the future they'll disappear from the rulebook because they have no models to support the rules and then everyone will be wondering why the heck they support this company.
Easy there cowboy, it's a garuntee that much of that box will get a full release. It usually takes about 5-6 months, see the chaos lord from BSF.
stahly wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
This is something I keep pointing out with regards to Shadowspear.
This is the first time they've done a Battlebox like this where the contents are so easily broken down into two Start Collectings that let them expand the offerings from the actual Starter set or even branch out into having "Easy Build Army" sets.
Remember death watch overkill. Those mono pose hybrids were lost forever. So it may not happen to protect the new multipart kits.
drbored wrote: There are too many new units in Shadowspear for them to keep them to that box. If GW wants anyone to use some of those units long term, especially Obliterators, Greater Possessed, and the Venomcrawlers, they need their own boxes.
If they don't well... You just wont see that many of them on the table because they'll be too hard to get, and then in the future they'll disappear from the rulebook because they have no models to support the rules and then everyone will be wondering why the heck they support this company.
Easy there cowboy, it's a garuntee that much of that box will get a full release. It usually takes about 5-6 months, see the chaos lord from BSF.
stahly wrote: I'm pretty sure they'll repack the sprues into Start Collecting boxes soon, like they did with the Age of Sigmar 1st Edition starter models. The characters on single sprues will probably available separately, too.
This is something I keep pointing out with regards to Shadowspear.
This is the first time they've done a Battlebox like this where the contents are so easily broken down into two Start Collectings that let them expand the offerings from the actual Starter set or even branch out into having "Easy Build Army" sets.
Remember death watch overkill. Those mono pose hybrids were lost forever. So it may not happen to protect the new multipart kits.
Remember death watch overkill. Those mono pose hybrids were lost forever. So it may not happen to protect the new multipart kits.
Uh...how exactly were they lost forever?
None of those space marines pictured are mono-pose Hybrids.....
sure and generally speaking monopose troops in a box tend to get replaced by the multipack stuff take Chaso Marines, the CSM sculpts in shadowspear are unique to Shadowspear,
BrianDavion wrote: sure and generally speaking monopose troops in a box tend to get replaced by the multipack stuff take Chaso Marines, the CSM sculpts in shadowspear are unique to Shadowspear
Funnily enough, genestealers from Overkill (first new sculpt of them in 15 years, unless we count obscure/limited releases like Space Hulk ones) were replaced by nothing and all GSC army boxes since had ancient ones. They just look kind of sad next to new Patriarch and half-stealer hybrids...
BrianDavion wrote: sure and generally speaking monopose troops in a box tend to get replaced by the multipack stuff take Chaso Marines, the CSM sculpts in shadowspear are unique to Shadowspear
Funnily enough, genestealers from Overkill (first new sculpt of them in 15 years, unless we count obscure/limited releases like Space Hulk ones) were replaced by nothing and all GSC army boxes since had ancient ones. They just look kind of sad next to new Patriarch and half-stealer hybrids...
especially as Cult Genestealers are aesthetically different than Tyranid Genestealers (ribbed flesh pockets versus smooth carapace)
I'm unwilling to make a new thread for this, so: Is the old version of Codex: CSM worth 12.50€? I'm asking because I found the flowchart on the community site not that helpful and my local toy store has it marked down to sell the new one. Since you'd need Vigilus Ablaze and a FAQ for Obliterator points at least I might get the old one to save some money...after all I walked out with a Khârn model marked down to 17€ for whatever reason instead of just the baby toy I wanted
Last time they had the Berzerkers marked down, which makes more sense with a potential WE dex with updated 'zerkers, but, hey, I'm not complaining about 12€ off this bad dude. Sales for the Sales God!
