Hmmm, already got Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard and Word Bearers armies, now I'm going to have to add a black legion detachment* for Abaddon!
*detachment many actually end up being about 4,000 points worth with only 1,500 actually painted and assembled
I’m pretty excited for this box. I’ve been waiting on the next set of Primaris Marines to come out. Now i’ll need to decide if I want to make a Black Legion force or just have different sized Night Lords....
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm sure we'll all enjoy resolving 4 different weapon profiles on that Obliterator every turn.
Okay so my hellflayer bolter and heavy reaper plasma cannon goes into unit X
My doomlord bolt cannon goes into unit Y
And my eternal tormenter meltagun goes into unit Z
Something like that? And this is evfen assuming all oblits have the same loadout
This is a cool model I think.
But does something about the seeming movement of the figure
and the orientation of the flames
seem out of sync?
Maybe it is due to the fact that it is a picture,
but I wonder if the flames might have been used to give a stronger sense of violent movement.
Seems like the flames indicate that he is sort of hovering there,
maybe floating by,
with his knee sticking out.
First impression anyways.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
timetowaste85 wrote: Does anybody else see Bane when they look at that new Obliterator? Honestly, not even sure that’s a bad thing!
Sure, hulking archetypal brute.
That obliterator model is very much an improvement imo.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Absolutely love that CSM are going to the more baroque look first seen in Dark Vengeance.
Been a long time coming, but seems Chaos is getting some much needed love.
Yeah, along with sisters this thematic read seems insightful.
10,000 years ago at the gates of the imperial palace when GW released their last update for Chaos.
And now I see finally the wait has been worth it.
Oblits are fine, I’m neither here nor there on them.
Venom thing looks cool
Chaos Marines are really what I’ve bwen waiting for. I liken then, but I hope they don’t just have basically 3 new models and that’s it. I really need a ful box.
I really, really like the new Primaris. The snipers are amazing, and if they get Kill Team rules I am 100% sold. A small Kill Team of infiltrators and snipers is the dream.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Absolutely love that CSM are going to the more baroque look first seen in Dark Vengeance.
Been a long time coming, but seems Chaos is getting some much needed love.
First seen on the Chaos Raptors in 5th edition you mean.
I'm pretty sure those Chaos Raptors were the first sign of the direction GW wanted to go...just a shame the Chaos Terminators were meh and the Possessed were a trainwreck.
I've got really high hopes for this box! I'm looking forward to Abaddon first though so I can finish my supreme command detachment to go with my World Eaters....
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
Rain wrote:I might be a bit off here with different angles and what not, but the new CSM seem to have been at the steroids a little:
Putting them side-by-side really highlights how rubbish the Centurions look...
The Obliterator is clearly based upon a Centurion (compare the feet), but looks to have mutated from an older pattern with much more baroque, curved armour.
If the Centurion had the same layout- heavier weapons mounted above the shoulders instead of on the fists- I think the sculpt would be far better!
Agamemnon2 wrote:What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
I think it may be something of a throwback to the secular ideals and technological expansion of the Great Crusade- that was pretty much the last time Guilliman was active!
Agamemnon2 wrote: What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
Um, you know primaris can take chainswords, right? The exact same amount as tactical or devastator squad, even. Yes, whatever dumb rule writer it was who bungled the issue of their melee weapon access muddied the waters, but it's there now. Really, all SM sergeants should just have one melee upgrade table but maybe GW will get there once a competent writer takes over the army.
As for camouflage, SM (besides sons of the genius who always spouted gems like "camouflage is the color of cowardice") always did that too, not only you have examples like Raptors or Raven Guard, but the Codex has several chapters on stealth and the FW Badab Books are full of alternate, camouflage color schemes for participating chapters. It's a very nice call back to HHveteran infiltrators and such. I feel it's less change of direction and more SM finally doing things they were always supposed to and less acting like metal skinned IG...
techsoldaten wrote: Pleased with the new models. Wondering what the Venomthrope does and what other models will be included in the box.
The "Venomcrawler" is:
A new class of Daemon Engine, the Venomcrawler is a skittering horror that provides withering infernal fire support. This thing is so saturated in the taint of the Warp that its presence thins the veil of reality itself, allowing Daemons easier access to realspace.
Makes me think that it will do something for Daemons coming in from reserves.
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
Um, you know primaris can take chainswords, right? The exact same amount as tactical or devastator squad, even. Yes, whatever dumb rule writer it was who bungled the issue of their melee weapon access muddied the waters, but it's there now. Really, all SM sergeants should just have one melee upgrade table but maybe GW will get there once a competent writer takes over the army.
Aha, I see. I was going by the current crop of miniatures, where I was struck by the absence of something so emblematic of the Space Marine aesthetic (the only Primaris models I've seen with close combat weapons are characters with powerswords, and Reivers with their throat-cutting knives. Now that I think of it, though, Calgar's new honor guard are pretty much identically regalia'd to Normmarine versions, so my thesis is pretty dubious.
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
If not everything is Knights in Space, that frees up the Knightly aesthetic a bit for the Templars and Dark Angels, keeping them distinct without needing to have plasma-speeder #4 to keep them distinct from codex marines. Like back in 3rd/4th where the aesthetic differences were more subtle than greek god armor on every BA, full wolf pelts on every Space Wolf, and gothic castles ontop of DA vehicles.
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
They look terrible? Cmon man, at least pretend to inhabit the same reality as everyone else.
Anyway, Jes has already been over this in the first voxcast episode. Primaris are really just a reset of the marine range. They'd sculpted themselves into a corner, adding ever more bling to marines so they went back to basics. They're still knight in space and the gubbins will come back in due course.
The centurion is more at an angle, so the width of the base is a better guide then the height of the lip. Of course, assuming they're both on a 50mm base. Considering they share the same feet, I'm guessing the shoulders of the Obliterator and the Centurions will be at a similar height, but the Obliterator will have the shoulder mounted guns on top of that.
If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.
I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?
Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.
I am completely certain that their profile will have exactly the weapons shown on the model, to conform to both WYSIWYG and GW's tendancy to bolt more and more guns on ever smaller models.
If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.
I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?
Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.
I am completely certain that their profile will have exactly the weapons shown on the model, to conform to both WYSIWYG and GW's tendancy to bolt more and more guns on ever smaller models.
Except... the model has less guns stuck on than the older model... and is clearly bigger? So they've bolted less guns to a bigger model.
Anyway, I'm liking the new Primaris in light armour. The only problem I have is what to do with all those Scouts I've still not painted? And just think! Now we could get Primarius Lieutenants in Phobos Armour, too!
If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.
I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?
Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.
I am completely certain that their profile will have exactly the weapons shown on the model, to conform to both WYSIWYG and GW's tendancy to bolt more and more guns on ever smaller models.
A distinct possibility, the only thing that steers me away from that is that the 2 Oblits shown thus far have very different loadouts, the video one seems to have less guns (assault cannon and heavy flamer) than the pictured one (plasma cannon, melts, twin bolter and heavy bolter).
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
Indeed. The Warrior Monk aspect of Marines was precisely what made them interesting. Primaris are just guys in armor. It's dull. Pretty, but dull.
There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.
Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions 3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM 1+ Obliterator = ? Venomcrawler = ?
If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).
Asmodai wrote: There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.
Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions
3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM 1+ Obliterator = ?
Venomcrawler = ?
If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).
Look at the video screen caps on pg 9 of this thread- there is a 4th unique CSM sculpt, and a second Obliterator. It is strongly suggested that these are new multipart plastic kits of full units, not unique units with weird unit sizes and mono-option models like Rogue Trader and BSF.
Asmodai wrote: There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.
Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions
3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM 1+ Obliterator = ?
Venomcrawler = ?
If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).
Considering the Primaris Vanguard seem to be themed around stealth and subterfuge, I'm guessing a dreadnought doesn't really fit.
If there was something big on the Primaris side you'd think it would be included in the revealed artwork at least, which I'm guessing will be the box art for Shadowspear. Going from that artwork it seems the Primaris will get Sergeant Telion included and some Reiver variants. Perhaps one of those will have anti-armour weapons of some sort.
I actually like the primaries for having less pointless bling. Though not enough to actually buy them, as they're still just yet more marines. I do dislike the at they going to mimic the 'and another new chamber opens' release style of Sigmarines. 'New' variants (weapon swaps) of the same faction over and over again for years is extremely dull.
But I'm finding myself rather lukewarm on the chaos stuff for the same reason I like the look of primaris. They're overloaded with crap. The thought of painting all the bits and gubbins just makes me sigh a little and wonder where the models are underneath all that.
I rather liked the simpler marines with spikes on.
Ah ,well. Got enough projects in the fire anyway. I'm actually more interested in the AoS teasers. Seems a good year so far for that system.
Looking at the what will be box art, are we expecting possessed in the box? There's a dude in the bottom right looking pretty fleshy. Probably fits with the floaty chaos boi too.
Asmodai wrote: There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.
Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions
3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM 1+ Obliterator = ?
Venomcrawler = ?
If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).
Look at the video screen caps on pg 9 of this thread- there is a 4th unique CSM sculpt, and a second Obliterator. It is strongly suggested that these are new multipart plastic kits of full units, not unique units with weird unit sizes and mono-option models like Rogue Trader and BSF.
They promised new sculpts, is there an EZ-build Redemptor already?
aracersss wrote: after you post where it says it's a sorcerer or an apostle
So they didn’t? That’s a disappointment..
I'm afraid they just did
In the Chaos forces, the Master of Possessions is a sinister sorcerer versed in the forbidden art of using hosts of living flesh to house daemonic spirits. Armed with an array of spells that aid Daemonic allies and corrupt his enemies, the Master of Possessions is a terrifying force on the battlefield.
Rain wrote: I might be a bit off here with different angles and what not, but the new CSM seem to have been at the steroids a little:
Ajusted..
Assuming this is a correct representation of size the boys better be more than W3 T4. Something like W5 T5 looks more correct IMO
It doesn't look like either scaled them right. Cents are on 50's and marines 32's, current oblits are on 40mm bases. Those pics look like they are scaling the oblits and cents to 60's for Pete's sake.
Mr Morden wrote: Ughh why do we always have to see the "pilot" - I think |I would love it without the stupid helmit in the middle.
Still it does look good compared to the obscenity that is the Centurion model
Because the model is based on the "pilot?"
Otherwise it would be a vehicle.
Edit: Man that sister does nothing for me. It looks exactly like the metal range, so maybe I have just seen it for too long at this point to be wowed by it. The banner is silly though. Maybe if they got rid of the two additional shadow boxes on the sides it would look less silly.
On the Olbiterators, I think they may look better with a different paint job. The ones we see here have a very stark delineation between the fleshy and metal bits. Perhaps painted bleeding into each other would ease the transition.
On the Olbiterators, I think they may look better with a different paint job. The ones we see here have a very stark delineation between the fleshy and metal bits. Perhaps painted bleeding into each other would ease the transition.
Paint the "fleshy" parts in a birght silver and shade them in 1-2 colors and I bet they look much better. Why they chose pink flesh every time is beyond me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hope both the chaos on sisters do well in sales. It would help convince GW to pay more attention at updating old lines rather then plowing ahead into new stuff all the time.
Maybe we would finally see plastic Aspect warriors.
Based on the news and that picture, the box seems to contain:
Primaris:
Librarian
Captain (the bearded dude in the picture, Telion-look-alike (or Primarified Telion?)
Lieutenant (the bolter dude with the Lt. markings)
Eliminators (Primaris snipers)
Vanguard bolter marines (can be seen in the background of the painting and in the video)
Vanguard marine(s) with some kind of heavy weapon (rotor-cannon? Seen in the background)
Chaos:
Master of Possessions
Regular Chaos Marines
Obliterators (at least two)
Venomcrawler Daemon Engine
Possessed
Am I missing anything?
I'm guessing the "standard" 125 euros for a box set. Wondering if most of these will be multi-part, or if we're looking at a box full of easy-to-build...
Interests me what publication the new daemon engine and marine stuff is gonna be in. I'm expecting the second vigilus book in which case i guess we can expect some chaos CP style formations.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
Indeed. The Warrior Monk aspect of Marines was precisely what made them interesting. Primaris are just guys in armor. It's dull. Pretty, but dull.
I, on the other hand, got tired of the incessant tide of bling a long time ago, particularly for regular marines. Less is more, IMHO, and going back to a cleaner core book for marines plus high-ish tech and a more sensible approach to blling speaks to me much more.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
I agree with the high-tech aspect and don't like the idea of the Primaris Marines myself (even though they're very nice models), but stealthy subterfuge-based non-Scout Space Marines is something we have already seen before with the Horus Heresy Recon Squad. This seems like it's just a 40K equivalent of those.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
Indeed. The Warrior Monk aspect of Marines was precisely what made them interesting. Primaris are just guys in armor. It's dull. Pretty, but dull.
I, on the other hand, got tired of the incessant tide of bling a long time ago, particularly for regular marines. Less is more, IMHO, and going back to a cleaner core book for marines plus high-ish tech and a more sensible approach to blling speaks to me much more.
Different strokes for different folks. I never really got into the aesthetic of the old marines (except Space Wolves, because Vikings in Space), but I really like the look of nearly all Primaris models, except the Gravis-armoured ones and the Inceptors. I'd prefer it we got a Primaris Tactical Squad with all the old weapon options, but the models, so far, have looked fantastic to me. On the other hand, I do see the appeal of the old marines, with their more varied armour and gothic looks (and their long history). I think what makes the Primaris look better to me is not the simpler armour, less bling, or what have you, but simply better proportions and more interesting poses.
Voss wrote:But I'm finding myself rather lukewarm on the chaos stuff for the same reason I like the look of primaris. They're overloaded with crap. The thought of painting all the bits and gubbins just makes me sigh a little and wonder where the models are underneath all that.
I rather liked the simpler marines with spikes on.
I am the opposite. I like the busy, chaotic (pun intended) look of Dark Vengeance Chosen just like I like the look of these new CSM models. I can understand not wanting to paint HQ levels of detail on troop models, but I am playing quite of bit of Kill Team and my Chaos Space Marines felt under dressed when there is only 6 of them on the board.
Red Corsair wrote:
Edit: Man that sister does nothing for me. It looks exactly like the metal range, so maybe I have just seen it for too long at this point to be wowed by it. The banner is silly though. Maybe if they got rid of the two additional shadow boxes on the sides it would look less silly.
I have never been interested in the SoB, so maybe I am not the audience but I agree. The model just seems like a female arbite that found a grimdark cabinet on a stick some marine's bolter to me. The sculpt is kinda plain and the bolter seems almost comically oversized even by GW standards of enbigging things. Finally, the pose is fairly static.
The Sister is a render still. Heroic models exaggerate the size of heads, hands, feet and weapons. This looks fine on the tabletop, but often looks comical in the renders. Having seen a few renders for parts later released, I am not at all worried by the proportions on the render. The final model will look better.
Haighus wrote: The Sister is a render still. Heroic models exaggerate the size of heads, hands, feet and weapons. This looks fine on the tabletop, but often looks comical in the renders. Having seen a few renders for parts later released, I am not at all worried by the proportions on the render. The final model will look better.
You are probably right. I don't think my opinion matters much on them anyways, since like I said, I am not the audience for Sisters of Battle. They just hold no interest to me. I am glad they getting an update but I can't really see me even starting a Kill Team of them unless they were part of box set I like. Kinda like Genestealer Cults which I still haven't done more than few base colors that came with Kill Team starter I bought months ago.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.
Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.
I agree with the high-tech aspect and don't like the idea of the Primaris Marines myself (even though they're very nice models), but stealthy subterfuge-based non-Scout Space Marines is something we have already seen before with the Horus Heresy Recon Squad. This seems like it's just a 40K equivalent of those.
Yeah, the high-tech aesthetic of Primaris isn't pleasing, if I wanted that I would build Gundam. Feels like we are losing the distinctive qualities of 40k along the way.
What actually bothers me is when you see several armies side-by-side, each has the same units, and the models are the same but for the paint. The 'clean' aesthetic seems to inhibit creativity somewhat. I recently converted several Primaris for a friend, repositioning joints is tedious and the panel lines on some of the armor make it hard to get the poses right.
If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.
I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?
Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.
I hope not. Everyone got mad about them not choosing their weapons, but as I correctly pointed out you were only ever using 2 options or sometimes 3 IF that. They paid a lot for flexibility that was really non-existent. The new concept is just a lot better in terms of unit function I think we can agree.
Well, it does make sense that a returned Primarch -particularly Robute of all possible primarchs- would start weening the Ultras and thier successors from religiosity.
Haighus wrote: The Sister is a render still. Heroic models exaggerate the size of heads, hands, feet and weapons. This looks fine on the tabletop, but often looks comical in the renders. Having seen a few renders for parts later released, I am not at all worried by the proportions on the render. The final model will look better.
You are probably right. I don't think my opinion matters much on them anyways, since like I said, I am not the audience for Sisters of Battle. They just hold no interest to me. I am glad they getting an update but I can't really see me even starting a Kill Team of them unless they were part of box set I like. Kinda like Genestealer Cults which I still haven't done more than few base colors that came with Kill Team starter I bought months ago.
It's fine to think of the Sister as boring. The only thing that's new is that the shrine on a stick has two wings now. The Sister is what GW has been careful to stress and what a good few Sisters want: the existing aesthetic ported to plastic. We've seen it all before plenty of times, and it is as it should be.
I do actually prefer the no frills look and proportions of the Primaris. But, they are missing some of the High Gothic and as somebody who has a company of minimarines painted; I have no wish to start again with Primaris.
The Chaos stuff looks pretty good. I always wanted GW to expand in the Daemon engine department. Although I do see this, alongside the Nurgle engines and the Primaris only vehicles a slow retirement of all the Rhino chassis vehicles.
I’m in the smaller camp as i think the marine marksmen look bad ass, I like the more tactical sci fi military look they are taking. Hope they get a wheeled transport of some form.
That might be wishing but something along the lines of an Lav or striker would be cool.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
Indeed. The Warrior Monk aspect of Marines was precisely what made them interesting. Primaris are just guys in armor. It's dull. Pretty, but dull.
Getting closer and closer to Call of Duty/Halo every day. Oh well, at least the Genestealer Cults stuff is great. I'll take Mad Max over Halo.
This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.
It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.
Indeed. The Warrior Monk aspect of Marines was precisely what made them interesting. Primaris are just guys in armor. It's dull. Pretty, but dull.
Getting closer and closer to Call of Duty/Halo every day. Oh well, at least the Genestealer Cults stuff is great. I'll take Mad Max over Halo.
I can see the Halo aesthetics (especially Bungie-era), but, er, Halo and CoD have quite different aesthetics overall.
Alpharius wrote:Loving the new Primaris stuff - hopefully I can find someone to split a box with, as I've got zero interest in the Chaos stuff!
Ironic, considering your username But then blending in with sneaky Marines disguised as Loyalists... hmmm
Does anyone think they'll go back to letting Obliterators choose their guns? The model they showed has a Heavy Bolter, a Multi Melta, a Plasma Cannon and a Autocannon I think.
But they are all identifiable guns, not just generic 'Fleshmetal Guns'.
dan2026 wrote: Does anyone think they'll go back to letting Obliterators choose their guns? The model they showed has a Heavy Bolter, a Multi Melta, a Plasma Cannon and a Autocannon I think.
But they are all identifiable guns, not just generic 'Fleshmetal Guns'.
I'm seeing heavy bolter, plasma cannon, multimelta/twin-linked meltagun, and combi-bolter on one, and what looks like a heavy flamer and assault cannon/rotor cannon on the other (this is in the video, so is less clear).
dan2026 wrote: Does anyone think they'll go back to letting Obliterators choose their guns? The model they showed has a Heavy Bolter, a Multi Melta, a Plasma Cannon and a Autocannon I think.
But they are all identifiable guns, not just generic 'Fleshmetal Guns'.
I'm seeing heavy bolter, plasma cannon, multimelta/twin-linked meltagun, and combi-bolter on one, and what looks like a heavy flamer and assault cannon/rotor cannon on the other (this is in the video, so is less clear).
Ahem I think you mean: a hellflayer bolter, heavy reaper plasma cannon, doomlord bolt cannon and eternal tormenter meltagun.
(Note these are the joke names I made up for the guns a few pages back, I have no actual info.)
dan2026 wrote: Does anyone think they'll go back to letting Obliterators choose their guns? The model they showed has a Heavy Bolter, a Multi Melta, a Plasma Cannon and a Autocannon I think.
But they are all identifiable guns, not just generic 'Fleshmetal Guns'.
I'm seeing heavy bolter, plasma cannon, multimelta/twin-linked meltagun, and combi-bolter on one, and what looks like a heavy flamer and assault cannon/rotor cannon on the other (this is in the video, so is less clear).
Ahem I think you mean: a hellflayer bolter, heavy reaper plasma cannon, doomlord bolt cannon and eternal tormenter meltagun.
(Note these are the joke names I made up for the guns a few pages back, I have no actual info.)
I was thinking that, but couldn't be bothered to add Chaos-y names Will be funny to see if you got any spot on though.
alleus wrote: The new Primaris armour looks great, love the helmet design! Need to see the models though, for how well it's translated into miniature form
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I don't quite understand what these Vanguard units are.
Are they a different army, or are they a specific unit type?
They're a bunch of new units tied around a central theme. This is a Stormcast style release (there were also Vanguard Stormcast interestingly enough), so all the units should be playable in other Marine lists, but the units will have certain visual elements to tie them together closer. These guys are Marines of the sneaky/sabotagy sort, so similar to an expansion on Reivers.
dan2026 wrote: Does anyone think they'll go back to letting Obliterators choose their guns? The model they showed has a Heavy Bolter, a Multi Melta, a Plasma Cannon and a Autocannon I think.
But they are all identifiable guns, not just generic 'Fleshmetal Guns'.
I am starting to think its not actually an obliterator, but a hellbrute variant, obliterax or something, so i think we will keep the current oblit rules AND get a new larger version.
alleus wrote: The new Primaris armour looks great, love the helmet design! Need to see the models though, for how well it's translated into miniature form
Spoiler:
I'm glad he brought all 3 of his optics with him
mace_ace wrote:On the wrong side of the gun for a righty no less.
Not a problem when they, you know, feed directly into his helmet autosenses and nervous system through the black carapace. Actually makes a lot of sense to have a variety of different optics in that scenario.
I'm guessing it'll be available for purchase around that March 5th date, alongside a full reveal of Abaddon and Vigilus 2 who'll go up for preorder a bit later
I'm a little put off by the rules suggestions for what both the tick and the master of possessions are going to do. Both seem to suggest they are going to things with summoning. Summoning is a terrible rule this edition, in no small part because of the intrinsic limitations GW chose to put in. No first turn and it costs points.
It's very hard to make summoning good with those fixed limitations in the current environment, and daemons aren't the strongest things out there to begin with. So having new chaos rules continue to try to modify a lackluster mechanic is a disappointing direction; particularly given that we just got the Infernal Enrapturess doing that. It sounds like the tick will do something like "you can re-roll summon rolls!"....that you would never make in the first place.
Bloody hell! What a day to lose your Internet connection. Let's do this, from the top:
Blades of Khorne - Cool. I have tons of Chaos stuff that can be used in AoS simply through gradual build-up of Chaos forces. Good that Khorne will have an updated set of rules.
Plastic Skulltaker - The plastic Kanarak was a great way to take a(n obviously very old) metal miniature and update it with modern plastics. This take on Skulltaker is far more dynamic than the old one, and I am once again glad I held off ever getting the metal heralds (with the exception of that horrific metal Herald on Jugger... I do reget that). Very nice model.
Khorne Totally-Not-Endless Spells - Evocative, gory and wonderful. I can find a 40K use for them. The bleeding Icon would make a wonderful focal point for a Black Crusade Khornate ritual.
Forbidden Power - More Sigmarines? How original.
Warhammer Warcry - To vague to care about now.
Syvaneth Skirmish Group - Chick with the bow's nice. Rest of them don't do it for me.
Shadowspear - Now we're getting into the meat. I wonder if this is just a big expansion of 8th Ed 2.0?
Vanguard Librarian - Possibly the best Primaris miniature they've ever made, and one of the best looking Marines to come out in years. And I hate Primaris Marines.
Eliminators - The rifles are cool, but they're just Primaris Scouts. And the slow march to the eventual Squatting of all regular Marines continues.
Master of Possessions - Couldn't just make a plastic Dark Apostle, could'ja Geedubs? Had to go and make something new. Nifty model though.
Chaos Space Marines - I have a massive CSM army. These will work as Chosen. Unfortunately I am 99% certain that this will be a sprue of 5 mono-pose models with limited options, and there will be two sprues of these guys in the box, just like all the Primaris Marine boxes. No options outside of the limited arm swaps the kit will have (one body can have a bolter or a flamer, another can have a bolter or a plasma gun). And I am dreading new options being there with older kit options simply not being there any more (a bunch of new guns rather than Heavy Bolter/Autocannon/Missile Launcher/Lascannon). There better be some new Havoc coming with this...
Obliterator - I've been waiting for plastic Obliterators for a long time. This guy (and the one you can see in the video) is super-fething-cool, even if the paintjob and big muscle arms did immediately make me think of this guy. I hope, to all the Gods of Chaos, that this is a 3 per box thing, and not a Dread-sized units of 1-3 but boxes of 1 for the price of stupid.
Venomcrawler - Firstly, major props to GW for creating a subtle name for this new creation. It's still a Nounverb, but given they could have called it a Skuttlesplice Razorfiend or Bladevice Skullcrawler or some other such double-barrelled bit of God-awful nonsense like so many other recent units, Venomcrawler is a nice choice. It is also, from what we can see, far more a Daemon Engine than a Daemon Engine. So more Defiler than Dinobot. That's good. Very good even.
Sister of Battle - She looks like a Sister of Battle. This can only be a good thing.
New Primaris Lieutenant - He has arms. That's... surprising.
Overall very, very good, but I have a feeling that new CSMs and plastic Oblits are going to be a case-study for "be careful what you wish for", especially in this post-CHS world GW now lives in.
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
And probably a way to dish out Mortal Wounds, because 8th Ed.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Huh, interesting. So the vanguard librarian is just an HQ choice, he just has different powers to a primaris librarian?
I like how the vanguard helmets are similar to that of the normal marine helmets. I guess its if you prefer armor that looks more like pre-Mk X armor.
He's almost definitely an HQ choice simply because he is a Librarian and thus a major Marine character, albeit in a different suit of armor. But as such no different than a Terminator or Gravis character. Maybe he'll have a new lore, or maybe not. The basic difference that's pretty much guarantueed to be reflected in his rules will be his wargear. He wears sneaky armor and has a camo cloak, so he'll likely have a rule akin to what you may find on Scouts and Reivers.
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
Likely both since he's still a Chaos Marine character and should thus have access to the generic faction summoning rule. But I agree, he's probably going to get a buff arau working off of the Daemon keyword.
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
Likely both since he's still a Chaos Marine character and should thus have access to the generic faction summoning rule. But I agree, he's probably going to get a buff arau working off of the Daemon keyword.
I'm hoping it is a buff that will be useful for both melee daemons, like Possessed, and ranged daemons, like the Obliterators and Defilers. If it only benefits one of the other I think it will be a pity.
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
Likely both since he's still a Chaos Marine character and should thus have access to the generic faction summoning rule. But I agree, he's probably going to get a buff arau working off of the Daemon keyword.
I'm hoping it is a buff that will be useful for both melee daemons, like Possessed, and ranged daemons, like the Obliterators and Defilers. If it only benefits one of the other I think it will be a pity.
True. And wouldn't that be fun? But knowing GW's general attitude towards Chaos I'll assume it will be melee exclusive.
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
Likely both since he's still a Chaos Marine character and should thus have access to the generic faction summoning rule. But I agree, he's probably going to get a buff arau working off of the Daemon keyword.
I'm hoping it is a buff that will be useful for both melee daemons, like Possessed, and ranged daemons, like the Obliterators and Defilers. If it only benefits one of the other I think it will be a pity.
True. And wouldn't that be fun? But knowing GW's general attitude towards Chaos I'll assume it will be melee exclusive.
Yeah... probably something useless like " if the Master of Possession has killed a model in the Fight phase, then all DAEMON models within 6" re-roll 1's to hit in the fight phase. Isn't it awesome!" or something similarly gak
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
Likely both since he's still a Chaos Marine character and should thus have access to the generic faction summoning rule. But I agree, he's probably going to get a buff arau working off of the Daemon keyword.
I've got much to add, but couldn't resist quoting so that if someone else quotes me, the quote would read Geifer -> Galas -> Galef, since I often think someone is quoting me at first when I see the other 2 names.
But to make this post relevant, I agree: The Master of Possesion is likely just going to have buff rules for Possessed, Oblits and Mutilators considering Possessed & Oblits are in the new set. There might be something for summoning Daemons, but I wouldn't be surprised if not. I'd also wager the new Oblit includes Mutilator options (or at least it should)
Galas wrote: I think the master of possesion will work buffing units and not summoning demons.
Likely both since he's still a Chaos Marine character and should thus have access to the generic faction summoning rule. But I agree, he's probably going to get a buff arau working off of the Daemon keyword.
I've got much to add, but couldn't resist quoting so that if someone else quotes me, the quote would read Geifer -> Galas -> Galef, since I often think someone is quoting me at first when I see the other 2 names.
But to make this post relevant, I agree: The Master of Possesion is likely just going to have buff rules for Possessed, Oblits and Mutilators considering Possessed & Oblits are in the new set.
There might be something for summoning Daemons, but I wouldn't be surprised if not.
I'd also wager the new Oblit includes Mutilator options (or at least it should)
-
One of the pictures looked very much like a Mutilator. But yeah, good point about the Daemon keyword for Obliterators, Mutilators, Possessed, and Daemon Engines.
The possessed art we see in the trailer has a head not like any of the ones in the current kit, and the crab claw is much more organic then the current models. I've been wondering if this is a artist take on the current models or a hint they will be getting a update also.
PiñaColada wrote: That claw thing is a rumour engine solved so there will be mutilators (that's my guess what they are) in the box
Possessed, I’m pretty sure. Would make sense with the leader being a Master of Possesions, and it doesn’t look anything like the Obliterators, like you’d expect Mutilators to.
I am confused, why do people think the Oblits are a multi part kit rather than just monopose in the Shadow Spear box? The heavy flamer/ assault cannon one is literally the one on the cover art.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: I am confused, why do people think the Oblits are a multi part kit rather than just monopose in the Shadow Spear box? The heavy flamer/ assault cannon one is literally the one on the cover art.
Because they are talking about their eventual solo release.
Ah, no guarantee on that though. We are still missing "bell dude", Primaris Ancient, Gravis Captain and Nurgle sorcerer from Dark Imperium and that was nigh on two years ago. Admittedly they are all character models.
I do hope we get a separate Obliterator/Mutilator box but I will put my hopes aside until we have some concrete information.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: I am confused, why do people think the Oblits are a multi part kit rather than just monopose in the Shadow Spear box? The heavy flamer/ assault cannon one is literally the one on the cover art.
Because they are talking about their eventual solo release.
^^This.
Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
The oblits are great, but I have 6 I customized that I like better. I do like how these look more like the Hellbrute. And they finally ditched the mad baby heads from the previous models.
The Master of Possessions is a great model, I really like it.
The chaos marines (at least, the ones we've seen so far), are nice, but don't seem like anything new or different, which is fine, since their black legion, 'The Evil Ultramarines'.
Venomcrawler is cool. If I can use it with my deathguard (as an actual Deathguard model), I'll probably get one.
None of the primaris they've shown so far has really piqued my interest though.
Tooth & Claw had a number of Primaris things I really wanted, plus GSC, so it made sense to get. Once we see all the contents of this box, I'll have to see if I should get it.
I'm impressed though, I like the variety within the boxes they've released.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: I am confused, why do people think the Oblits are a multi part kit rather than just monopose in the Shadow Spear box? The heavy flamer/ assault cannon one is literally the one on the cover art.
Because they are talking about their eventual solo release.
^^This.
Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
-
Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.
Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast
They said that unlike the previous Tooth and Claw and similar sets, all of the models were new sculpts, so that lends to the idea of it all being multi-part sets more than it does snap fit.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.
Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast
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Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.
Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast
-
Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.
Galef wrote: Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
Why are we assuming that any of these kits are mono-pose starter minis?
Galef wrote: Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
Why are we assuming that any of these kits are mono-pose starter minis?
I am not sure if these will be "real" kits or "push fit" kits. Regardless, they will all be mono-pose. That is pretty much all GW does now-a-days.
I don't expect much possability from a kit like Obliterators. Those flesh arms and legs, and those weapons... I can see variety in equipement, but not that much in pose.
But then I also tought that about the new Rock Trolls because they only show the same 3 models and then the kit actually comes with a good bunch of variety, much more than older kits like Minotaurs.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.
Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast
-
Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.
Until you realise that they have m4
Meh. Once they make a charge and they're in the thick of it, you're good for further combat. The low cost of opportunity is a pretty good deal for what they can do.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.
Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast
-
Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.
Until you realise that they have m4
Meh. Once they make a charge and they're in the thick of it, you're good for further combat. The low cost of opportunity is a pretty good deal for what they can do.
They're one of the worst units in the book for 3 editions now. Just because they made a charge once and killed some tactical marines doesn't mean they're not terrible. The only thing worse than Mutilators are maybe Possessed.
Galef wrote: Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
Why are we assuming that any of these kits are mono-pose starter minis?
I am not sure if these will be "real" kits or "push fit" kits. Regardless, they will all be mono-pose. That is pretty much all GW does now-a-days.
Galas wrote: I don't find Possessed that terrible, is just like, why bother having Khorne Berzerkers?
Come on, seriously? Berserkers fight twice and always have 3 attacks where as possessed might only have 1. They're awful for their points and have been for pretty much every codex. Almost no melee in csm is great tho beyond the characters
GoatboyBeta wrote: Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.
True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.
Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast
-
Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.
Until you realise that they have m4
Meh. Once they make a charge and they're in the thick of it, you're good for further combat. The low cost of opportunity is a pretty good deal for what they can do.
They're one of the worst units in the book for 3 editions now. Just because they made a charge once and killed some tactical marines doesn't mean they're not terrible. The only thing worse than Mutilators are maybe Possessed.
I don't disagree they were garbage for 6th-7th, but since this last Chapter Approved they have a great low cost of opportunity.
Galas wrote: I don't expect much possability from a kit like Obliterators. Those flesh arms and legs, and those weapons... I can see variety in equipement, but not that much in pose.
I don't either. I mean, even with the last ones the variations came from where you stuck the guns. If they keep just that it'll be fine.
The real issue is if they're one per box, or three.
It's the CSMs that will be mono-pose like Primaris and Death Guard. That's the real shame.
Galas wrote: But then I also tought that about the new Rock Trolls because they only show the same 3 models and then the kit actually comes with a good bunch of variety, much more than older kits like Minotaurs.
Eh. If you want to make them work you can - as renegade chapter. Then you can run and charge with them.
My problem is there is no taking more than 3 so putting effort into buffing them doesn't return much and I never know what they're going to do when they make it to combat. Charged a tank? S8 AP3? YES! Damage 1? Awww...
3 T5 2+/5++ wounds for 35 points is pretty fabulous though. If I could heal them with Temporal I'd run them all day long.
Depending on the price in points of those Snipers, I will probably run two squads of three in my Crimson Fists. I imagine they will be less than 100 pts for the squad, but time will tell. I definitely like them. The Librarian is less of a definite for me. I wonder what the rest of the boxed set will consist of. As of right now, I have no vehicles in my entire army. Maybe there will be a vehicle for the Primaris?
Formosa wrote: until they give possessed the same rules as gal vorbak, they will always be trash lol, so this new fella if he buffs them, well its like haarkom buffing raptors, a polished turd is still a turd.
They're not missing a lot of the rules Gal Vorbak have now though?
They are missing
options like special weapons, power weapons etc.
an extra wound since GV have two, they should have 3 for 40k, sarge would have 4
rending equiv
WS 2+
Str5
T5
Rage Equiv
native deep strike
stubborn equiv
Gal Vorbak are what possessed should be rather than the unreliable trash unit we have now that is overshadowed by every other choice.
LOL you're not serious are you? Let's break these down!
1. They already strike at S5 AP-2. That means no need for the option to buy Power Weapons, because are you really going to buy S6 or AP-3 on them for 4-5 points? Absolutely not.
2. Since they already strike at AP-2, Rending equivalents won't actually help a lot.
3. Gal Vorbak already cannot hit on a 2+ anyway, so you're complaining about nothing but the WS chart, which is a whole different discussion.
4. Uh they already have S5...
5. I'll grant you they don't have T5
6. Everyone in 8th lost extra attacks on the charge. If you want them back, use World Eaters.
7. Gal Vorbak can't charge after Deep Strike, so that doesn't make sense. Meanwhile Possessed have a 7" movement and can get the rerolling charges Banner. So that's not an issue.
8. They're already LD8 and morale doesn't matter.
So you're either complaining about 8th mechanics or you're complaining that you haven't actually seen the Possessed statline basically.
LOL you're not serious are you? Let's break these down!
1. They already strike at S5 AP-2. That means no need for the option to buy Power Weapons, because are you really going to buy S6 or AP-3 on them for 4-5 points? Absolutely not.
2. Since they already strike at AP-2, Rending equivalents won't actually help a lot.
3. Gal Vorbak already cannot hit on a 2+ anyway, so you're complaining about nothing but the WS chart, which is a whole different discussion.
4. Uh they already have S5...
5. I'll grant you they don't have T5
6. Everyone in 8th lost extra attacks on the charge. If you want them back, use World Eaters.
7. Gal Vorbak can't charge after Deep Strike, so that doesn't make sense. Meanwhile Possessed have a 7" movement and can get the rerolling charges Banner. So that's not an issue.
8. They're already LD8 and morale doesn't matter.
So you're either complaining about 8th mechanics or you're complaining that you haven't actually seen the Possessed statline basically.
1: Power weapons, power fists etc. they lack any of these options at all, they also lack special weapons.
2: Rending equiv would be ap -3/4 this makes a big difference
3: they are WS 5, this translates to WS 2+, so yes this should be taken into account for a dedicated close combat unit with some firepower as back up as above
4: Str5 AND T5
6: I dont care everyone lost attacks, I want a unit made for close combat to have more attacks and compete with bezerkers
7: Gal vorbak cant, but possessed could, its another option that possessed should have.
8: they should be fearless in 40k 9: and they should have 3 wounds
Nope I am complaining that this crap unit that should be easily top or top 2 for close combat units in the codex has be awful for at least 3 editions, your statues quo keeps them crap, my radical change makes them worth taking, but hey, looks like GW might be taking another swing at them so this may be moot.
Formosa wrote: LOL you're not serious are you? Let's break these down!
1. They already strike at S5 AP-2. That means no need for the option to buy Power Weapons, because are you really going to buy S6 or AP-3 on them for 4-5 points? Absolutely not.
2. Since they already strike at AP-2, Rending equivalents won't actually help a lot.
3. Gal Vorbak already cannot hit on a 2+ anyway, so you're complaining about nothing but the WS chart, which is a whole different discussion.
4. Uh they already have S5...
5. I'll grant you they don't have T5
6. Everyone in 8th lost extra attacks on the charge. If you want them back, use World Eaters.
7. Gal Vorbak can't charge after Deep Strike, so that doesn't make sense. Meanwhile Possessed have a 7" movement and can get the rerolling charges Banner. So that's not an issue.
8. They're already LD8 and morale doesn't matter.
So you're either complaining about 8th mechanics or you're complaining that you haven't actually seen the Possessed statline basically.
1: Power weapons, power fists etc. they lack any of these options at all, they also lack special weapons.
2: Rending equiv would be ap -3/4 this makes a big difference
3: they are WS 5, this translates to WS 2+, so yes this should be taken into account for a dedicated close combat unit with some firepower as back up as above
4: Str5 AND T5
6: I dont care everyone lost attacks, I want a unit made for close combat to have more attacks and compete with bezerkers
7: Gal vorbak cant, but possessed could, its another option that possessed should have.
8: they should be fearless in 40k 9: and they should have 3 wounds
Nope I am complaining that this crap unit that should be easily top or top 2 for close combat units in the codex has be awful for at least 3 editions, your statues quo keeps them crap, my radical change makes them worth taking, but hey, looks like GW might be taking another swing at them so this may be moot.
Well to all the marine haters out there, i have an idea just send em my way lol. Have a 6 yr old lad that loves anything marines and I think these look pretty sweet.
On a serious note I really do like the look of the primaris marines and the cut down armour that gw are selling. Those snipers will make a great addition to my marines . Yes and in camo aka rogue trader era .
This is the first box set... well, ever, that I actually like and want both halves.
AOBR for Orkz, Dark Vengeance for CSM, Dark Imperium for Death Guard.
I kinda fell for Primaris after reading Dark Imperium and starting a Killteam from the easy to build intercessor kits, and those Sniper Marines fit right into my sniper scout collection.
Pffff, you just hate change, grandad. Get with the times yeah, full armour and a varied selection of equipment to allow you to adapt a unit to any circumstance or strategy is so last decade, skater shorts-&-Vans-armour and monobuilds are totes in right now, and as everyone knows only novelty and the transitory social acceptance that comes from adhering to the fashions of the moment have any value.
I mean I would be estatic if the released a Ynnari preview. So that they finally are their own thing and not stupid soup lists.
I would love to see new eldar models. But Black Legion needed their update badly. I hope this means we will see more of the great enemy. Chaos Space Marines have been needing an upgrade for a long time.
I am hoping most of them aren't just monopose like dark imperium. I hope they are as customizable but beautiful looking.
I'm sure they'll stop calling them primaris eventually... at some point they will call them just "marines" and if you ask what about the old marines they'll go all "what 'old' marines? Marines are marines"
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Asherian Command wrote: I am hoping most of them aren't just monopose like dark imperium. I hope they are as customizable but beautiful looking.
I don't really see that happening, unfortunately. It seems like the era of non-monoposes has come to an end.
Personally I like everything I’ve seen so far. I had a massive downer on GW for a while but everything I have seen in the last few years has been spot on. Yeah some things are better than others and I certainly have my preferences, but in general things seem to be better now than they have for over a decade... And these Chaos Marines just look great; now my line troops won’t look like they’re from a different range of models compared to my Dark Vengeance Chosen. And from the glimpses we saw of Abbadon... just wow!
AduroT wrote: I find it interesting the “Primarised” Chaos Marines don’t get Bolt Rifle type Weapons but instead keep the old Bolter proportions/appearance.
They aren't Primarised??? They are just better scaled in line with Rubrics and Plague marines...
AduroT wrote: I find it interesting the “Primarised” Chaos Marines don’t get Bolt Rifle type Weapons but instead keep the old Bolter proportions/appearance.
I so wish they'd have Priamaris proportions. I don't like the "upgraded super-duper Mareens" background, but I sure love those actual legs connecting their bodies to the ground. CSM/DG/TS still have somehwat stumpy thighs.
That said, I like them enough to get them and hack their legs up to, sigh, "true scale" them a bit more IF there's a kit with legs not covered in multiple layers of bits. Resculpting one holster/loincloth/whatever per dude is enough, given how (C)SM are still fielding tons of bodies for such elite guys. Who am I kidding, with the incredible psyker and maybe Noise Marines and Berserkers coming up, how could I not redo my Word Bearers from 3.5...but I'll keep the Diaz demonettes and metal 'letters.
I'm sure they'll stop calling them primaris eventually... at some point they will call them just "marines" and if you ask what about the old marines they'll go all "what 'old' marines? Marines are marines"
Pffff, you just hate change, grandad. Get with the times yeah, full armour and a varied selection of equipment to allow you to adapt a unit to any circumstance or strategy is so last decade, skater shorts-&-Vans-armour and monobuilds are totes in right now, and as everyone knows only novelty and the transitory social acceptance that comes from adhering to the fashions of the moment have any value.
Yeah because unit specialization to make sure a unit doesn't suck at a job is a bad thing, huh?
Also what do you mean full armor? They all have it besides Scouts, which aren't Primaris.
I loathe the fluff behind the primaris, and I also loathe their lack of customisation. But I must say that most of them are stunning. Really like this ''vanguard'' force, especially the librarian
streetsamurai wrote: I loathe the fluff behind the primaris, and I also loathe their lack of customisation. But I must say that most of them are stunning. Really like this ''vanguard'' force, especially the librarian
I'm sure they'll stop calling them primaris eventually... at some point they will call them just "marines" and if you ask what about the old marines they'll go all "what 'old' marines? Marines are marines"
Yeah. It's already like that in my head.
I still divide them in my head. My Original Six (Pedro Kantor and a Lascannons Devastator Squad) that have been in my army for almost five years now will never get lumped in with the Primaris. But I am looking forward to the Eliminators since they will be functionally replacing the Scouts that used to be part of my army at the very beginning. They will be fluffed that they ARE the Scouts from long ago, just upgraded to Primaris.
I just hope that the Eliminators and the Librarian have the ability to use a regular helmet. The way they are right now isn't the end of the world, but why they protect the least essential area of the head and leave their domes free to absorb all manner of projectile is beyond me. I might need to take some regular Mk X helmets and add the goggles to the eyes somehow (the guy on the left in the image on War Com has the right idea). I might just smooth the forehead of the Librarian out and paint it normal helmet color. It likely won't be noticeable.
I am looking forward to seeing what other items are in the box. Hopefully there are more Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices coming. The Scouts are likely either Troops or Elite(the right Eliminator has a Fire Support symbol on his knee so maybe they are heavy Support?!) Same with the other Vanguard Primaris. Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support only have one choice so far. It is time for some more in each. Not everything needs to be a damned Elite (Reivers should have been FA anyway). I imagine the rest of Primaris Round Two likely will have a tank of some sort.
Spoiler:
Context to the whole hating no helmet thing: I worked as a neurosurgical nurse for four years. I took care of several gunshot wounds to the head. The skull is surprisingly fragile when high-speed sharp objects impact it. And the number of head injuries from motorcycle accidents tells me a blunt object isn't much better. And yes, helmets make a difference. A humongous difference.
I am also an Army nurse. We always wear our kevlars when lead is flying. ALWAYS.
I'm with you on preferring full helmets. It also has the added benefit of less flesh tones to paint, and eliminates the risk of derpy eyes
I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out. But in the (presumed)box art, there is a vanguard marine below the Librarian and the possible Captain who has a Lieutenant badge on his shoulder. He is also packing what looks like a extra(power?) blade/sword and Grav chute vanes.
Rogerio134134 wrote: I actually saw someone comment "yawn" in the Warhammer community post revealing everything... Some people just hate everything.
....or aren't interested in Loyalists or CSM I guess? I think yawning is the opposite of hatred in some respects, it's showing a complete lack of interest.
I don't like the sound of a massive rework of the setting - hope that bit's not true! I personally would hate to see it go the way of Warhammer Fantasy.
Rogerio134134 wrote: I actually saw someone comment "yawn" in the Warhammer community post revealing everything... Some people just hate everything.
....or aren't interested in Loyalists or CSM I guess? I think yawning is the opposite of hatred in some respects, it's showing a complete lack of interest.
As much as the chaos reveal was good for me, they didn't show off a right lot else tbh.
OrkPlayer137 wrote: I don't like the sound of a massive rework of the setting - hope that bit's not true! I personally would hate to see it go the way of Warhammer Fantasy.
Having finally begun the process of bringing myself up to date with new 40k fluff I have realized that it is probably time for some reworks to the setting. GW should definitely start taking the game in a direction that appeals to the tastes of the upcoming fans.
Now making it a good change is a different issue lol
Huh, interesting. I also have a friend inside GWHQ. He hinted at an Eldar relaunch in 2019 too. I can't really comment on much else, I only know what I'm told in snippets. AnActualEnglishMan should be able to sort of confirm my posts. We had an exchange of PM some months back regarding information about 'Orktober' prior to it happening.
If true, the end of resin will be something to look forward to.... in 3 years time.
Hope one of the factions includes miscellaneous Imperium forces. Rogue Trader and other minor Imperium sub-factions. The Inquisition could be included too
Not impressed with the rest though. I can see a massive division of 40k with proper marines, and 41k with oversized scalecreepy copies.
OrkPlayer137 wrote:I don't like the sound of a massive rework of the setting - hope that bit's not true! I personally would hate to see it go the way of Warhammer Fantasy.
Unfortunately bound to happen. You advance the story and the setting is likely to change. I'm tempted to dig out 7th Ed, and leave GW to mess with 8th.
I have to agree that the next big step I would like to see is Games Workshop replacing all of their resin kits. Not so much individual character/HQ units, but it still surprises (almost shocks) me that Warhammer 40k has troop choices that aren't plastic kits. IMO, troops should be the backbone of 40k armies due to the 28mm scope. I think CWE are the biggest sufferers of the problem of non-plastic troops of the factions with codices.
As a Chaos Space Marine player, I think there will still be a few kits that could use a modernization (Khorne Berserkers and Havocs), but I am pretty happy with these previews. I would hope GW made the CSM kit cover standard CSM, Chosen, Havocs (even a single missile launcher and lascannon would be nice) and with a bit of minor conversion Berserkers so the kit can cover a lot of ground all at once. But who knows. Still, I do think Eldar should be next up for a facelift.
Having a friend with a friend who works at GW who just happens to know what the big plans for what's coming out for the entire year for both AoS and 40K are, including knowing specific months, knowing what's planned with the lore, and what business/maufacturing plans are that are somewhat unrelated to the releases themselves for the year, yet without going into any actual specifics or even mentioning the other games? I think it's both too vague and too broadly specific once to be believable, especially when several things like the Black Legion miniatures (Blackstone Fortress already has both Traitor Guard and Beastmen) and "Primaris Wave 2" are pretty safe guesses.
Winged Helmets>Crested Helmets>Helmets with Hoods>Rebreathers with hoods>Rebreathers>Hoods>Bare heads.
Thats just how it is.
And, about those 4chan rumors... pfff... at this point theres so many rumors flying out there, and many have ended up being true but also many others haven't. I don't even know what to believe unless is near a actual release and then we see GW confirmation posting the legit information a couple weeks/days after.
Not Online!!! wrote: Honestly.
I belive it when we i see it that there will be traitor guard.
And even then, if GW is behind it, it will be boring unadaptable imps with spikez.
Seems reasonable.
Mod notice - please do not edit quotes like that
A: Don't put words in my mouth
B: I am generally expecting the same customizability options i had in IA13, which surprise surprise are not any more in there and, when asked why suddenly half the units were gone i fielded or could field as a R&H player and the answer was as lapidar as it gets and with the generally stomping out of customizability then yes i doubt the result will make many veteran players happy.
Other then that, at this stage i would take any codex nearly since the Index we got is gak
Eiríkr wrote: Huh, interesting. I also have a friend inside GWHQ. He hinted at an Eldar relaunch in 2019 too. I can't really comment on much else, I only know what I'm told in snippets. AnActualEnglishMan should be able to sort of confirm my posts. We had an exchange of PM some months back regarding information about 'Orktober' prior to it happening.
I can indeed confirm Eirikr has someone who knows things inside GW. Now where's the rest of the Ork updates at bud?!
My problem with this is that the bit about LoW's directly contradicts what was said at the New Year Open Day's Q&A session, where they said there was no plans for all factions to get one, and might even have said they think not all of them should have them.
cuda1179 wrote: Perhaps it was "major factions". Like, something any space marine army can take, an IG one, Chaos (any flavor), and Eldar (any flavor).
IG is about as much of a major faction as Orks. You mean "Imperium", "Chaos" and "Aeldari".
There has been a rumoured overhaul of the 40k setting for as long as there has been an internet. And most of the rest of that was spoiled at LVO. Not sure what this adds to the existing knowledge/ rumor base.
Kendo wrote: There has been a rumoured overhaul of the 40k setting for as long as there has been an internet. And most of the rest of that was spoiled at LVO. Not sure what this adds to the existing knowledge/ rumor base.
That message was posted on February 4, a few days before LVO..
I do not believe it at all, because many things are rumors that have been heard for some time, but others are just what GW said in LVO
BrotherGecko wrote: Having finally begun the process of bringing myself up to date with new 40k fluff I have realized that it is probably time for some reworks to the setting.
Too late. They already did that at the end of 7th and with 8th. The whole Imperium split in half, return of a Primarch, Primaris Marines, Daemon Primarchs re-entering the fray, etc. etc.
Image link edited due to language.
Really? You edited out a pic because out of all the text it has the word 'gak' in it? Honestly...
Eiríkr wrote: We had an exchange of PM some months back regarding information about 'Orktober' prior to it happening.
BrotherGecko wrote: Having finally begun the process of bringing myself up to date with new 40k fluff I have realized that it is probably time for some reworks to the setting.
Too late. They already did that at the end of 7th and with 8th. The whole Imperium split in half, return of a Primarch, Primaris Marines, Daemon Primarchs re-entering the fray, etc. etc.
Yeah, but you didn't really expect they'd stop there did you? GW's modern method is an ongoing plot that changes things on a whim, because that better suits their bizarro working method where the guys who make the models are the ones who decide what gets made, and then everyone else just kinda has to try and figure out how to fit what they produce into the setting somehow. You might think that's daft and will result in a simplistic saturday morning cartoon "narrative" where things "change" constantly at the surface level with names and toys coming and going but nobody ever actually winning or losing in a meaningful way, and so it's actually no different to the way things were before except to those who's interest is too brief to recognise the pattern or who simply don't care at all beyond buying newshinies and rolling some dice - that's how it looks to be going to me - but like it or loathe it that's the path GW have chosen and they're not going to stop with one Primarch, one big "galaxy shattering" event, this is the way things are now.
They're being less abrupt than they were with WHF, but in the end the ultimatum to existing fans is the same; get on board or get lost. On the plus side, fans who prefer 40K to 41k+ should have an easier time continuing to play 40K if they want to than WHFB fans did, since there's already a solid crowd of 2nd Edition players out there, and I've seen quite a few folk recently talking about their groups using a "director's cut" of 3rd and onwards. There's also a much bigger range of third party models available that fit the 40K aesthetic.
Yodhrin wrote: GW's modern method is an ongoing plot that changes things on a whim, because that better suits their bizarro working method where the guys who make the models are the ones who decide what gets made, and then everyone else just kinda has to try and figure out how to fit what they produce into the setting somehow. You might think that's daft and will result in a simplistic saturday morning cartoon "narrative" where things "change" constantly at the surface level with names and toys coming and going but nobody ever actually winning or losing in a meaningful way, and so it's actually no different to the way things were before except to those who's interest is too brief to recognise the pattern or who simply don't care at all beyond buying newshinies and rolling some dice - that's how it looks to be going to me - but like it or loathe it that's the path GW have chosen and they're not going to stop with one Primarch, one big "galaxy shattering" event, this is the way things are now.
Yodhrin wrote: They're being less abrupt than they were with WHF, but in the end the ultimatum to existing fans is the same; get on board or get lost.
So how long 'til they do a 'world shattering' event where the repository of Space Marine Geneseed on Terra is lost and, combined with the massive grind of war, the various Chapters now find it impossible to create new Marines, leaving only Cawl's Primaris Marines as replaceable.
Yodhrin wrote: They're being less abrupt than they were with WHF, but in the end the ultimatum to existing fans is the same; get on board or get lost.
So how long 'til they do a 'world shattering' event where the repository of Space Marine Geneseed on Terra is lost and, combined with the massive grind of war, the various Chapters now find it impossible to create new Marines, leaving only Cawl's Primaris Marines as replaceable.
About 9-10 months, only it won't be as well written as your explanation.
As for there unwritten ultimatum I can only hope that Age of Gulliman is as "successful" as AoS was at launch.
Darkseid wrote: Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
What I don't want is for GWs resources to be split between Marine and Bigger marines (as well as all the FW Marines) rather than continue to support other lines which they have done more of over the last few years.
We have a huge bloated range for Marines already - the base range has everything it will ever need - unlike almost every other faction.....
Darkseid wrote: Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
I want it because I find deluded ramblings about manlets staying around forever, or Japanese blind boxes showing the range is in rude heath tedious. Also, the quicker they make the transition the less the lore will suffer. I'm not too bothered by the Primaris lore myself, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have preferred them being introduced as the new, upscaled SM range. Ultimately this happened after Rogue Trader, it happened after 2nd edition and who still plays with 3rd edition tactical squads? Just use your old army for historical wars (Badab) and buy a new army for "current" ones. Everyone has done it multiple times before after all.
Darkseid wrote: Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
What I don't want is for GWs resources to be split between Marine and Bigger marines (as well as all the FW Marines) rather than continue to support other lines which they have done more of over the last few years.
We have a huge bloated range for Marines already - the base range has everything it will ever need - unlike almost every other faction.....
I don't follow. If the Old Marine range has everything it will ever need, then how would resources be split between Old Marines and Primaris?
Darkseid wrote: Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
What I don't want is for GWs resources to be split between Marine and Bigger marines (as well as all the FW Marines) rather than continue to support other lines which they have done more of over the last few years.
We have a huge bloated range for Marines already - the base range has everything it will ever need - unlike almost every other faction.....
I don't follow. If the Old Marine range has everything it will ever need, then how would resources be split between Old Marines and Primaris?
Because they keep remaking the same stuff - have done for years - how many Tac/Assault/Dev Marines have they done and then again for different Chapter and stupid flanderisation like naything over the last few years for the Wolves.
I was delighted to see a Sniper unit - that was the sort of thing that they could have done years ago rather than Wolfy Wolf Wulf Wulves. The Sniper unit could work for all Chapters...
Hell do Chapter Thrall/Helots/Serfs as a unit. New stuff is fine but IMO not Flander specials or just remaking the same old units for the Same old Chapters.
Certainly hoping to see the Primaris folded into Deathwatch, as well as Kill-Team. I'm a big fan of the entire 'tactical' aesthetic they're going with on these dudes. I'm very curious about everything else in the box, and hope it's not entirely an easy-to-build kit. Monopose kits are great unless you're a huge fan of kitbashing and customizing things.
Also hoping a CSM kit means a new CSM ruleset for Kill Team. The limitations for them are currently outright pathetic.
I personally think the old Marines are going to be phased out, and 'Primaris' will be the only types- you'll be able to use your old marines as a valid model, and Primaris marines will have all the options that the old ones had- they'll just be "Space Marines".
And yet, the stupidest thing I've heard so far about this inevitable phase-out of the old models is "I prefer my old Space Marines, how are they going to look up against big Primaris Marines". You'd think that after literal decades of the models being updated from "weird hunchbacked bowlegged jet-face dudes" to the more recent models, you'd have learned to get over it and deal with it somehow, but I suppose gamers are gonna be gamers. Otherwise all the griping I seem to hear is about what some other people seem to enjoy, which is exactly why online 40k communities tend to be regarded as cesspits of grognards that just can't let go, or perpetual whiners looking for attention.
And I realize there's wailing and gnashing of teeth. But this is Warhammer 40k. A massive amount of the player base does nothing but whine and cry, no matter what gets released. You can't please everyone, and one of the unfortunate side-effects of the internet is that it is a soapbox for anyone who wants to piss and moan about something.
But hey, for all the negative people seem to say about the new Primaris stuff, it certainly seems successful enough for them to keep running with it.
Certainly hoping to see the Primaris folded into Deathwatch, as well as Kill-Team. I'm a big fan of the entire 'tactical' aesthetic they're going with on these dudes. I'm very curious about everything else in the box, and hope it's not entirely an easy-to-build kit. Monopose kits are great unless you're a huge fan of kitbashing and customizing things.
Also hoping a CSM kit means a new CSM ruleset for Kill Team. The limitations for them are currently outright pathetic.
Me too.
I am sure that the new Primaris units will get a Kill Team mention. They seem designed for small covert operations. The librarian will likely be for commanders, but I think it would have been awesome if Kill Team broke 40k rules and basically made him am Adeptus Astartes only Aspiring Sorcerer like data sheet maybe with the drawback of must be Leader of the team (no hiding for you!). On a personal note, it feels kinda too bad that I just finished my Kill Team scout squad before hearing about these guys. They look so good. However, the scouts will likely still be the cheap option so I am not too broken up about it. I am just looking forward to painting the new stuff in Raptor colors.
I don't do much kit bashing nor customizing anyways, so monopose doesn't bother me. I can't see how the cloaked units can be anything but that. The Chaos Space Marines look like they could have the usual poseability mostly in the arms and head. They might not have it at the waist, which really, which isn't that big of loss to me anyways.
I kinda doubt that the new Chaos Space Marines mean a whole lot of new stuff in Kill Team. The best I think I can hope for from the preview so additional options (like chain axes) that could be added. I think CSM kill team could use an additional data sheet. I personally would like Chosen to be added in Kill Team, but I don't know how disruptive that would be given how greatly that increases the faction's special weapon limit for basically an extra point of two. Between Chosen and regular CSM, the whole kill team could probably be outfitted with special weapons. Seems like too much.
Chaos -
Sorcerer guy
5 chaos space marines
5 possessed
2 oblits
Venom crawler
Marines -
Librarian
5 scout Primaris as.seen in the artwork
3 to 5 snipers
3 Imperial bike things with heavy weapons options
Think bikes/speeders for the marines would match up with the scout style and would give much needed firepower to the vanguard marines
I’m thinking both the bearded captain and the lieutenant shown in the artwork will have to be in the box too. Showing them so prominently and then not including them would be a major departure for how they’ve done artwork for these boxes in the past. Similarly, I would expect any bikes to actually show up in the art if they’re in the box.
Cause at the primaris scale, they look MUCH better.
Hopefully once enough primaris stuff is out there, and the primaris scaled chaos stuff, other factions like GK, etc all get released, then the will just get rid of this primaris from fluff, and just make them the standard marines as it should be.
Darkseid wrote: Why do some players want Oldmarines to be gone so badly?
Given the different aesthetics and battlefield roles, I think there is space for both Oldmarines and Primaris to co-exist.
The whole debate sounds more like a case of 'I told you that evil GeeDubz is screwing you over', than actually support for either of the marines.
StarFyre wrote: Cause at the primaris scale, they look MUCH better.
Hopefully once enough primaris stuff is out there, and the primaris scaled chaos stuff, other factions like GK, etc all get released, then the will just get rid of this primaris from fluff, and just make them the standard marines as it should be.
I agree on that; Primaris are GWs answer to years of 'truescale' marines people have been building on their own.
Still Primaris are not 1:1 comparable to Oldmarines, and therefore not a replacement. In portrail and aesthetics Primaris are a military task force, or Reasonable Marines as some internet denizens would call them. Their clean futuristic looks charter to people who like traditional Scifi settings, where as Oldmarines still embody the mediaeval-scifi look. This in my opinion is one of the reasons that there is room for them to co-exsist.
StarFyre wrote: Cause at the primaris scale, they look MUCH better.
Hopefully once enough primaris stuff is out there, and the primaris scaled chaos stuff, other factions like GK, etc all get released, then the will just get rid of this primaris from fluff, and just make them the standard marines as it should be.
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
More importantly than scale (imo), they also have actually somewhat reasonable proportions. They are not flawless, but ever since their introduction I just can't use normal marines anymore. They look so silly.
tneva82 wrote: Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
So what you're saying is that the average guardsman, eldar wych, rogue trader, and Tau is about 7 feet tall...?
And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.
More importantly than scale (imo), they also have actually somewhat reasonable proportions. They are not flawless, but ever since their introduction I just can't use normal marines anymore. They look so silly.
I also think that Primaris are just better looking than old marines. But the real problem is that they are also way more streamlined, so much that they have very little diversity in gear option. I'm shocked at the complete poverty of primaris kit compared to old marine kits.
Putting that aside, I'm sure to buy the new box. Those miniatures are absolutly gorgeous, especially that sneaky librarian.
tneva82 wrote: Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
So what you're saying is that the average guardsman, eldar wych, rogue trader, and Tau is about 7 feet tall...?
And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.
I have Marines from all editions - happy to mix and match - not all Marines are the same size of shape imo....
I wouldn't be surprised if GW see the HH setting as a way to keep selling non Primaris kits. Especially if it gets to the siege of Terra and moves into the scouring where mk7 became available.
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
More importantly than scale (imo), they also have actually somewhat reasonable proportions. They are not flawless, but ever since their introduction I just can't use normal marines anymore. They look so silly.
In the first voxcast Jes says exactly this. Primaris are the same "scale", they've just been reproportioned. Basically he gave them hips.
He also strongly hinted that the Oldmarine range is ”done”, and from now on every new release will be Primaris. Which is quite significant.
I wonder if the same will be true for, say, Eldar? Craftworlds are ”done”, and everything new from now on will be Ynnari. Would let them avoid updating the Aspects indefinitely.
Oguhmek wrote: He also strongly hinted that the Oldmarine range is ”done”, and from now on every new release will be Primaris. Which is quite significant.
I wonder if the same will be true for, say, Eldar? Craftworlds are ”done”, and everything new from now on will be Ynnari. Would let them avoid updating the Aspects indefinitely.
To be fair the Marine range is more than done - Eldar and many other factions are still missing alot of untis and models.
As long as GW continues selling Oldmarine kits, I really just don't see the problem.
Personally, I have been phasing them out of my army anyway. I am down to about 500 pts in my 2000 pt list being Oldmarines. Primaris just look better. If they give me a Primaris Pedro Kantor, I will be down to just one squad of Devastators (that aren't going anywhere) and two Whirlwinds.
I have to agree that, now I’ve seen primaris marines, old marines just look bad in comparison. This kind of hurts, as I’ve got a 30k 7th legion army that I spent serious amounts of time and money on.
I haven’t played 30k since 8th edition and primaris marines appeared. Why would you play a worse game with worse models?
I’ve done some conversions where necessary. I’m quite pleased with my scout squad made from reivers (not least because it gave me something to do with reivers).
My take is that primaris marines are what marines always should have been. They have the right scale and the right stats. GW just messed up by not simply calling them “space marines”, meaning that now you have this bizarre mess with the fluff and rules.
And bizarrely they are now going to release new mini chaos marines, still with the old stats. If they’d just done the obvious thing and given all marines 2 wounds and attacks from the beginning of 8th, they could now bring out great new chaos marines at the proper scale. So far nothing I’ve seen gives me any reason to think we’ll start to see actual chaos space marines in chaos space marine armies.
I’ll almost certainly get the set though. The new librarian looks awesome sand is very likely to find his way into my Crimson Fist army. I’ve already got an urban camp scheme I like, from my scouts. Might do a second squad of scouts in the meantime, with bolt guns, as my original squad has shotguns.
One prospect that I'm actually enamoured with, is that if at some point Oldmarines and their units cease to exist the Chaos Marines will truly be unique. They would sporting gear that was lost 10'000 years a go and maybe one or the other Oldmarine classic would be retconed into their arsenal.
Primaris look -too- human in proportion, the new proportions seen in Deathwatch, Space Marine Heroes and recent chaos releases look much more like an inhumanly broad Astartes.
You know how they say model makers dictate where it goes and what’s released.
Do you think they sculpted these and just said “Oh this is the next Mk armour, and by the way we did a bit more realistic proportions in line with our other models”
But then it moves to the background team, and they looked at the models and said No they are bigger, so therefore something new. And wrote Primaris fluff around it..
Oh please, the whole 'inhumanely wide' thing is a retroactive attempt at justifying the wonky proportions of the models, not some fundamental element of SM mythos.
Tall? Sure. Well built? Yes. Misshapen Frankenstein's monster knockoffs? No.
His Master's Voice wrote: Oh please, the whole 'inhumanely wide' thing is a retroactive attempt at justifying the wonky proportions of the models, not some fundamental element of SM mythos..
Yeah, they’ll just squeeze all those extra organs, force-grown musculature and even extra bone into a standard basketball player’s physique then.
Darkseid wrote: One prospect that I'm actually enamoured with, is that if at some point Oldmarines and their units cease to exist the Chaos Marines will truly be unique. They would sporting gear that was lost 10'000 years a go and maybe one or the other Oldmarine classic would be retconed into their arsenal.
And when they discontinue Rhino-chassis vehicles they'll lose all their transport options except for Land Raiders. Oh wait, primaris can't use those either.
Blastaar wrote: I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.
Unless you live in some part of the world where people have forearms as big as their thighs, they really aren't 'fine'.
So what if they look "unrealistic?" It's a stylistic choice.
I understand that a lot of people are attached to the old marines. Personally I don’t have any nostalgic feelings for them since 40k kind of happened during my 25 year break from the hobby. I just see Primaris as better models.
The old marine range is done though. I mean there really isn’t anything to add, so the old marine fans can still buy what they need and, I imagine, GW will keep them in production for as long as people are still buying them.
tneva82 wrote: Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
So what you're saying is that the average guardsman, eldar wych, rogue trader, and Tau is about 7 feet tall...?
And HH players might need to accept the fact that HH isn't going to be around much longer.
So book 9 is on its way out imminently according to FA and book 10 is already being worked on, HH seems to have a huge following where I am and there remains a steady output of models. I don’t think it’s quite dead in the water yet.
Blastaar wrote: I don't understand all the fuss about the proportions- they look fine, and I like the style of the non-primaris.
Unless you live in some part of the world where people have forearms as big as their thighs, they really aren't 'fine'.
Yep... though ironically I also live in a part of the world where there are no genetically-engineered space-monks who wear power armour and have been fighting a 10,000 year war against Space-Elves, Ancient Killer Robots, Retro-Futuristic Goblins and men with horns/tentacles, so I can probably let the forearm-to-thigh ratio thing slip as I attempt to suspend my disbelief
Legiocustodes wrote: So book 9 is on its way out imminently according to FA and book 10 is still already being worked on, HH seems to have a huge following where I am and there remains a steady output of models. I don’t think it’s quite dead in the water yet.
With as many 'Last chance to buy' things that pop up, I have my doubts. It took them a while to get that book out, and I'm not sure HH has the following that GW had hoped.
Legiocustodes wrote: Yep... though ironically I also live in a part of the world where there are no genetically-engineered space-monks who wear power armour and have bee fighting a 10,000 year war against Space-Elves, Ancient Killer Robots, Retro-Futuristic Goblins and men with horns/tentacles, so I can probably let the forearm-to-thigh ratio thing slip as I attempt to suspend my disbelief
Considering the fact that Primaris Marines have been a huge hit, and the sheer amount of 'truescale' tutorials and groups are online, I wouldn't say the scale shift was an unpopular decision. This is also not ignoring the fact that the size creep of space marines is a thing.
But yeah, let's just pretend 'fictional setting tropes' is on par with 'poorly-modeled miniature'.
Transformers has robots that change into cars, therefore the figures should be made of cardboard because reasons.
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
Simple: Human 6 feet. Marine 7 feet. Custodians 8 feets(they are to marines what marines are to humans). Primaris models are custodian sized.
Any space marine model that is custodian sized is wrong scale for SPACE MARINES. Primaris are 8 foot. Hell even fluff says they are bigger than regular marines. No surprise seeing they are custodian sized which are head taller to space marines.
Tough luck if you can't accept simple concept. Marines need to be head shorter than custodians to satisfy custodians being to marines what marines are to human. Primaris don't do that. Ergo they aren't marine sized. But that's allright since fluff specifically calls them out as bigger taller marines. They aren't traditional space marines so they don't have to be space marine sized. Just need to be primaris sized.
I think I'm going to have to buy up chaos terminators out of fear their models go the way of those ridiculous obliterators. Often less is more, and just because you can throw more detail onto models doesn't mean you should, especially if they are monopose
Problem is they are too big for space marines. Removing old marines would be bad news also for HH players. Primaris models CANNOT be used there. They are head too big for SPACE MARINES.
Could you stop repeating this nonsense? Compared to GWs normal humans, the Primaris are about seven and half feet tall, which is roughly how tall the Space Marines are supposed to be.
Simple: Human 6 feet. Marine 7 feet. Custodians 8 feets(they are to marines what marines are to humans). Primaris models are custodian sized.
Any space marine model that is custodian sized is wrong scale for SPACE MARINES. Primaris are 8 foot. Hell even fluff says they are bigger than regular marines. No surprise seeing they are custodian sized which are head taller to space marines.
Tough luck if you can't accept simple concept. Marines need to be head shorter than custodians to satisfy custodians being to marines what marines are to human. Primaris don't do that. Ergo they aren't marine sized. But that's allright since fluff specifically calls them out as bigger taller marines. They aren't traditional space marines so they don't have to be space marine sized. Just need to be primaris sized.
There's a wee tiny flaw in your logic there chief. The Custodes models were sized relative to the oldmarine models, which are the wrong size. That means the Custodes are the wrong size relative to a properly-scaled Marine. Also, you got a source on the "Primaris are 8 foot" thing?
If you actually work from a consistent baseline, with the modern GW human height of around 32mm, then Primaris models are around 7.5', which is where most truescale Marine models ended up anyway(because literally nobody apart from Jes and, apparently, you will still sit there after 30 years of varied descriptions and depictions of Marines and insist that, nuh-uh, they're all 7', exactly, on the dot, not a nanometer more). And the fluff is completely irrelevant in this case, since we know for a fact the models were designed first and the fiction was invented later to justify their size relative to people's existing model collections.
This is the News and Rumours thread for Shadowspear, it is not a place to rehash the size debate for the ten thousandth time. Please stick to the topic.
Galas wrote: Old armours are very cool. I don't think nobody has a problem with those. The problem is the proportions they come paired with.
Yeah agreed. I've tried converting a Primaris marine combined with MkIII plastic bits. The head and shoulder pads work fine but the rest is a lot of work. I could see myself potentially doing a kill team like this but definitely not an army. And anyway I think MkX looks good as is.
Only thing I don't like are reivers. I don't think their silly skull faces fit with the rest of the aesthetic and it's nonsense that it's enough to scare anyone on a 40k battlefield. Luckily they are useless so I've never felt the need to paint any up.
Hopefully the new vanguard guys will do the job better. I just hope they aren't all elites. The elite slot is already very stuffed for Primaris armies, while there aren't many fast attack or heavy choices at all.
Snake Tortoise wrote: I think I'm going to have to buy up chaos terminators out of fear their models go the way of those ridiculous obliterators. Often less is more, and just because you can throw more detail onto models doesn't mean you should, especially if they are monopose
Unless they are daemonically posessed terminators, i wouldnt worry. Look at the new generic chaos marines, that is a better basis.
I seem to have missed the rumour about the changing background - the picture was edited? Any other source? Curious as some discussion of Eldar followed. Its going to be interesting to see what they do with the established factions which are well filled out but eldar have a lot of resin. That said there are a lot of aspect models out there in collections and on eBay - they'd have to do something really exceptional or brand new to make them a big seller. Atia did mention the possibility of Exodites a while ago [when GSC first reappeared I think]. Ynnari could provide a new twist though - two builds - Craftworld and Ynnari for each aspect.
Galas wrote: Old armours are very cool. I don't think nobody has a problem with those. The problem is the proportions they come paired with.
Yeah agreed. I've tried converting a Primaris marine combined with MkIII plastic bits. The head and shoulder pads work fine but the rest is a lot of work. I could see myself potentially doing a kill team like this but definitely not an army. And anyway I think MkX looks good as is.
You don't happen to have a picture of that, do you? I was thinking of mashing Mk.III and Mk.X together for my Captain.
Mandragola wrote: Only thing I don't like are reivers. I don't think their silly skull faces fit with the rest of the aesthetic and it's nonsense that it's enough to scare anyone on a 40k battlefield. Luckily they are useless so I've never felt the need to paint any up..
I was put off by that , too, but I guess that's just how GW rolls these days. Bespoke rules that are supposed to have an effect with little regard to internal or external consistency.
Mandragola wrote: Hopefully the new vanguard guys will do the job better. I just hope they aren't all elites. The elite slot is already very stuffed for Primaris armies, while there aren't many fast attack or heavy choices at all.
GW loves its Elite slot, but I think at this point it might still be OK to draw a comparison to Sigmarines that got their releases by specialization. Primaris seems to broadly follow this approach with a baseline release and now sneaky Marines. So I would definitely expect a new Troops choice in there.
Anything more than that, well, realistically we don't even know what the full box contents will be. Not much to go on just yet.
silverstu wrote: I seem to have missed the rumour about the changing background - the picture was edited? Any other source? Curious as some discussion of Eldar followed. Its going to be interesting to see what they do with the established factions which are well filled out but eldar have a lot of resin. That said there are a lot of aspect models out there in collections and on eBay - they'd have to do something really exceptional or brand new to make them a big seller. Atia did mention the possibility of Exodites a while ago [when GSC first reappeared I think]. Ynnari could provide a new twist though - two builds - Craftworld and Ynnari for each aspect.
But then you have people like me who have put off expanding Eldar forces due to the number of resin Aspects.
Also, I think a lot of existing players would happily pick up some plastic sculpts for the additional variety of poses, or to avoid finecast.
As you can see I got bored with adding the piping around the edges of the armour. I need to add wrist armour and do something about the thigh plates too, and maybe to the back of the legs. Hopefully it gives you a vague idea what you could end up with though.
I dread the thought of adding Rivets! I do think you’d need to do that though ideally, to get to the industrial style of mkiii dudes.
This isn’t an easy conversion to do. You have to do a lot of cutting to get the chest armour in place and the backpack was kind of a nightmare - which still needs filling. I’m not sure if I’ll do anything on the bolt gun.
I’ve obviously used some spare resin bits here but you could use the plastic mkiiis instead.
I was thinking about Eldar. They have kind of an incoherent model range, designed by various different people over a long time. A potential Ynnari book is an opportunity to do things like aspect warriors in plastic - or to do entirely new units. Shining spears stand out as needing a new model since I think they’re designed to fit the old bike.
I'm really looking forward to Shadowspear. I am hopeful that it'll fill some gaps in the Primaris army list and the models I've seen so far look great.
The chaos stuff seems a lot less interesting. Only one of the models we've seen is new, though it's kind of cool. The new basic infantry look great, but are going to be hampered somewhat by the dreadful rules they have at the moment.
In the end it comes down to rules for me. The new models are great (apart from the obliterator - not that I like the current one much either) but it's not clear yet if they'll make it into armies.
I like the chaos stuff but I dont fancy having more primaris, il probably pick up the few bits I like off ebay, Im getting pretty fed up of them putting all these new releases into games like this as there is always so much waste, stuff in the box that no one wants or ever uses.
I’m definitely with you on the waste issue. The nurgle stuff from the starter set and all of the contents of forgebane apart from the knights are still piles of grey plastic guilt for me. They aren’t the only examples either.
Hopefully the stuff will be sold separately soon. But the box sets are such good value that you’re virtually getting the other faction’s stuff for free. I can easily see myself getting the set if the rules are good, because I’ll need the models in time take to a tournament in March.
Mandragola wrote: I’m definitely with you on the waste issue. The nurgle stuff from the starter set and all of the contents of forgebane apart from the knights are still piles of grey plastic guilt for me. They aren’t the only examples either.
Hopefully the stuff will be sold separately soon. But the box sets are such good value that you’re virtually getting the other faction’s stuff for free. I can easily see myself getting the set if the rules are good, because I’ll need the models in time take to a tournament in March.
Yea I cannot blame people for buying and I know that a lot of people will buy it just because of the price, I am a big GW fan but it makes me sad that they have such a horrible environmental impact with all the unrecyclable waste they have been producing recently.
And just think! Now we could get Primarius Lieutenants in Phobos Armour, too!
But then blending in with sneaky Marines disguised as Loyalists... hmmm
(yes, I know the 
