If Mantic says 'Resin', does that mean similar to FW resin?
don't know what FW is doing at the moment, but yes Resin (Polyurethane) like everyone else
If Mantic says "Hard Plastic" they mean HIPs ala GW?
or Renadra, Revell, Tamiya etc, yes everyone write hard plastic if they mean HIPS
If Mantic doesn't mention a material, they mean PVC?
or plastic, or Boardgame plastic, yes PVC like material
Also, has the 3' x 3' paper mat been hinted at going to Mousepad material? Even if only as an add on?
yes
But this is mantic so if anything goes down badly and doesn't get the expected number of orders expect it to move from PCV or HIPS to metal or resin (or a combination of both) and if something is super popular I wouldn't be surprised to see a supposedly pin sharp resin switching to PVC
Mantic's resin is closer to the kinds of resin I've received from Prodos or even Hawk Wargames. It is more durable and less bubbly than any FW resin I've received.
Their HIPS plastic varies. The Men at Arms and terrain plastic was much harder than typical HIPS and required a stronger solvent glue. Their newer plastics seem to be somewhere between the old Mantic and current GW/WGF/Renedra plastics.
Their PVC or board game plastics have usually been decent to excellent.
While the giant does nothing for me, I have a bunch of Shieldwolf Shieldmaidens in need of some male Shieldmaidens. Looking forward to what comes next.
Had they thrown the Neoprene mat into the "Giant" bundle, I would be more excited. As it stands... it isn't much in the way of value over just picking the bits I actually like.
lord_blackfang wrote: The giant is the strangest thing so far to be shoehorned into a skirmish game.
To be honest if it is one Giant like the old Fantasy one, that isn't as big as many other newest kits, it works as some kind of NPC boss for a scenario. But yeah. Probably other things could be more apropiate for a Skirmish game.
Galas wrote: Probably other things could be more apropiate for a Skirmish game.
Like actual scout/raider models. For a game supposedly about scouting and raiding there's an awful lot of battleline infantry, heavy armour, monsters and cavalry with very few cloak and dagger type units.
Thanks for the reply. You bring up a good point, but the Basileans do not interest me enough, so I've just pledged for 'Join the Vanguard' and added the Abyssal resins. Will see if its possible to get single Sisterhood figures later. (Like the flail-wielding Sister and the Scouts.)
Also, in the unlikely event I do start a KoW Basilean army, I'd buy historical Byzantines so they can be played in KoW Historical and Fantasy. I bought a Warlord Games Macedonian Starter Army earlier in the year with that idea in mind (KoM or Alexander's Macedonian).
Ancestral Hamster wrote: If I'm not mistaken, the bonus Abyssal warband in the 2 player starter and Join the Vanguard pledges does not include the character models. So I'd have to add them separately, right?.
Yup.
Although, if you want all the models, it's perhaps better to pledge for the 'Join the vanguard' pledge instead and add the second Warband and abyssall characters as add-ons. That's $5 more but you get all the terrain crate stuff.
The parts seem to be shown 3 times from different angles so there arent as many parts as the image suggests.
Torsi and legs are separate pieces, so that makes it a lot easier if someone want to use zombie legs instead, to avoid the leg-tentacles. (course, that assumes you have some of those around, so it's not a perfect solution)
Next stretchgoal revealed too. Another objective
This one probably won't set the campaign ablaze with new backers, but the Northern alliance will probably be included as an add-on around the 48 hour mark. That'll presumably drive some traffic.
The concept art is pretty neat IMO
Spoiler:
Far away from the eyes of Basilea, the halls of the Dwarves or the Kingdoms of Men, the Winterlands are an almost forgotten part of Mantica. It is a land blasted by chill winds and carved from ice. For most of Mantica’s history it has remained hidden but now stories are drifting south of an alliance of men, Elves and other creatures that could rival even the greatest powers in Mantica.
Travellers have reported that the Winterlands are ruled by an exiled elven prince called Talannar Icekin. His great magic has created a beautiful city – known as Chill – with towers of glittering ice that shoot skywards. Many who live just south of the Ice Mountains have flocked to his banner, intrigued by the strange rumours surround Talannar’s rule. During the recent cataclysmic spread of the Abyss and the decimation caused to The Brotherhood, many of these brave soldiers have also ventured northwards, ready to bend their knee to the exiled prince.
Perhaps the most worrying aspect for those in the south is that there are whispers Talannar has discovered something of incredible power. It isn’t clear if Talannar is protecting it for his own use or whether he’s trying to stop whatever he’s found from spreading southwards. There are countless rumours: another Abyss, a portal to the Ways and even the body of a Celestian or ancient god. Whatever it is, those who guard it are willing to die to keep its true identity a secret.
However, life in the North is hard and resources are scarce. Since the battle with the Abyss and the Green Lady’s hard-fought victory over the denizens of this forsaken place, more and more sightings of the Northern Alliance have been reported. Warbands of fur-clad fighters are scouring the countryside for whatever resources they can find: food, weapons, fuel and more fighters. They are clearly preparing for something….
The bulk of Talannar’s force is made up from the hardy Northmen of Mantica. Clad in thick furs, they can be exiles from the Kingdom of Men, former Varangur warriors who have fallen out of favour with Korgaan and, increasingly, members of the fragmented Brotherhood looking for a new cause. No matter where they come from, once in the Winterlands they fight with a fury that would rival even the most hardened Ogre.
However, they are not the fiercest fighters under Talannar’s rule. That mantel belongs to the deadly Half-Elf Berserkers that roam the wastes after being shunned by their own kind. The Elves are normally an implacable race but the freezing wind brings out a kind of fury in them, driving them to greater feats of incredible violence. In battle they become a freezing whirlwind of destruction and their shrill cries echo across the battlefield.
Fighting side-by-side with the Half-Elf Berserkers are the Ice Kin Hunters. Although not as crazed as their half-brethren, they are no less dangerous. Hunting in the Winterlands requires a skillful mix of stealth and accuracy, which is something the Ice Kin Hunters excel at.
Another common sight among the Northern Alliance is the Ice Naiads. After spending so much time in the chilly waters of the Winterlands, their very skin resembles hardened ice and they fight with spears tipped with crystals. Some claim the Ice Naiads fled the Trident Realm after refusing to kneel to their High King. They hoped to set up their Kingdom – far away from the influence of their homeland – but instead swore fealty to Talannar.
Those who have encountered the Northern Alliance in skirmishes say their arrival is heralded by a frozen fog that rolls in as if from nowhere. At the heart of this icy blanket of cloud, you’ll invariably find an Ice Witch. Emboldened by the magic of Talannar these powerful magic users can command the frozen winds of the north, chilling the bones of their foes and freezing them in their tracks.
It’s not just humans and Elves that have flocked to Talannar’s banner. Somehow he has managed to tame the monstrous Snow Trolls. These lumbering beasts were once the scourge of wandering travellers but now fight for the Northern Alliance – perhaps the chill of North makes them more docile? In combat they’re clad in glittering armour but even without the protection, their thick grey fur is equally difficult to penetrate.
I do wish they'd used this as an excuse to redo the elf sprues as well as the men-at-arms. The elves don't have the technical problems the men-at-arms sprue does, but they're some of Mantics first models and it shows. The fact that the elf archers are wearing shields on their bow arms is an unexpected pet peeve.
Also, there's still a few of the 'main' rulebook KoW armies without plastic sprues for their troops at all. Abyssal Dwarves and Ogres are stuck with restic troops, off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others I don't remember. Getting sprues done for them could have been part of this kickstarter, instead of trying to get two new fringe-y factions into the game.
I am close to buy a cheap second hand elve army
and now with the artwork of the Northern Alliance I am more likely to skip it and wait, no matter how long, to get an army of those
The question is still, will there be new HIPS elves or just metal add-ons?
(the main reason I never got the Empire of Dust stuff, actually I would rather accept Restic/HIPS Hybrids than metal ones
I really hope Mantic learned better than to offer metal-plastic hybrids. Those are on nobody's wish list.
You might not have to choose between armies. I found some of the old Mantic elves at a discount so deep the boxes were worth buying for the Mantic points. It's a buyer's market for them.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I really hope Mantic learned better than to offer metal-plastic hybrids. Those are on nobody's wish list.
You might not have to choose between armies. I found some of the old Mantic elves at a discount so deep the boxes were worth buying for the Mantic points. It's a buyer's market for them.
I second this. Few days ago I bought in a hobby store in Trier an undead Covenant Cavarly Regiment box for 8 Euros. I found it in the basement of the store, full of dust, probably forgotten even by the store owner. When checked at Mantic's website I saw that the same box is sold for 39.99 Euros.
I wonder some times what the players' base of KOW really is.
Not of uniform size across all locations, I'd say. Big in some places, absent in others, and all other points on the graph in between, which is what any reasonable person should expect of any miniatures game.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I really hope Mantic learned better than to offer metal-plastic hybrids. Those are on nobody's wish list.
You might not have to choose between armies. I found some of the old Mantic elves at a discount so deep the boxes were worth buying for the Mantic points. It's a buyer's market for them.
I second this. Few days ago I bought in a hobby store in Trier an undead Covenant Cavarly Regiment box for 8 Euros. I found it in the basement of the store, full of dust, probably forgotten even by the store owner. When checked at Mantic's website I saw that the same box is sold for 39.99 Euros.
I wonder some times what the players' base of KOW really is.
People that doesn't use Mantic miniatures, of course.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I really hope Mantic learned better than to offer metal-plastic hybrids. Those are on nobody's wish list.
You might not have to choose between armies. I found some of the old Mantic elves at a discount so deep the boxes were worth buying for the Mantic points. It's a buyer's market for them.
No one likes those hybrids and still it seems to be worth for mantic, or better say not worth for them to make them in Resin or Restic
Regarding the army, I could get 2 elves mega armies for the prize of one
But I have no need for a standard elf army if I can have Ice Elves, except they would be Hybrids
Zywus wrote: It does indeed add a fair bit of value to the Giant pledge.
I could see quite a few backers uppgrading from their $85 pledges.
It worked for me. :-p I was at $85 as it seemed a decent skirmish-level value, once the Abyssals got added, but even then knew i'd need to add $20 to "complete" said Abyssals. At that point jumping from $105 to $150, but functionally doubling the content, feels decent... especially if the Norther Alliance models actually deliver.
Yes, the giant and NA warband with 4 resins added for free is incredible value. Very nice update.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wonder if the giant 'upgrades' will be available as part of this KS or just at retail later on. I would pledge for an extra giant if I can change the appearance a bit now.
This has ended up as one of the best value Kickstarters Mantic has ever done, as always, a shaky start leads to the kitchen sink being thrown in by the time it ends.
It actually beats Deadzone v1 in terms of mini count, with just as much terrain and with one of those minis being a giant.
Once the whole Northern Alliance gets unlocked, that'll be 104 minis total.
And to their credit, there isn't a single Kickstarter exclusive (apart from an alternative rulebook cover).
scarletsquig wrote: This has ended up as one of the best value Kickstarters Mantic has ever done, as always, a shaky start leads to the kitchen sink being thrown in by the time it ends.
It actually beats Deadzone v1 in terms of mini count, with just as much terrain and with one of those minis being a giant.
Once the whole Northern Alliance gets unlocked, that'll be 104 minis total.
And to their credit, there isn't a single Kickstarter exclusive (apart from an alternative rulebook cover).
Is it as much terrain? I don't feel like I have a good sense for how much of the modular fantasy terrain this actually includes, at the moment, at the Giant-pledge level.
domobomb wrote: Where are you guys all finding cheap elves boxes?
Like at FLGS, or online sources?
I got some from a FLGS a few years ago, in the deep discount bin (albeit ordered them online because they're not that local). Bit of a Schizophrenic store at times, they refuse to stock Mantic, stocked every single SKU from Spartan that ever existed, they're in a cold war with Battlefront over the local distributor and refuse to stock them, go all in on most things Prodos do, and despite routinely making public complaints about GW and threatening to report this, and stop stocking that, they still order GW shipments in like clockwork.
Looks like the Giant pledge for me, although I consider the actual Giant an awful waste of resources when Reaper does a dozen different ones for a few bucks each.
NA looks great, shame this didn't run away to 500k to fund the plastics, which is doubtless what Mantic was hoping.
Yea, the jump from my $85, 2-player starter (i.e., 3 basic warbands, which required $20x3 = $60 worth of resin figures to complete) pledge to the giant pledge was $145 --> $150
So for $5 I got a giant, and a pack of scenery (I didn't do the terrain crate, so I'm happy there too)
scarletsquig wrote: This has ended up as one of the best value Kickstarters Mantic has ever done, as always, a shaky start leads to the kitchen sink being thrown in by the time it ends.
It actually beats Deadzone v1 in terms of mini count, with just as much terrain and with one of those minis being a giant.
Once the whole Northern Alliance gets unlocked, that'll be 104 minis total.
And to their credit, there isn't a single Kickstarter exclusive (apart from an alternative rulebook cover).
Is it as much terrain? I don't feel like I have a good sense for how much of the modular fantasy terrain this actually includes, at the moment, at the Giant-pledge level.
Deadzone v1 had quite a lot of terrain. I don't think it's that much. But there's a ton of value in this KS!
pancakeonions wrote: Yea, the jump from my $85, 2-player starter (i.e., 3 basic warbands, which required $20x3 = $60 worth of resin figures to complete) pledge to the giant pledge was $145 --> $150
So for $5 I got a giant, and a pack of scenery (I didn't do the terrain crate, so I'm happy there too)
Plus a forth warband (Northern alliance); as long as a few more thousand ticks in and takes the campaign above $165k
pancakeonions wrote: Yea, the jump from my $85, 2-player starter (i.e., 3 basic warbands, which required $20x3 = $60 worth of resin figures to complete) pledge to the giant pledge was $145 --> $150
So for $5 I got a giant, and a pack of scenery (I didn't do the terrain crate, so I'm happy there too)
Plus a forth warband (Northern alliance); as long as a few more thousand ticks in and takes the campaign above $165k
The NA resins look nice, but I am worried about the PVC minis. Mantic has been reluctant in recent campaigns to change the pose of monopose minis from the poses depicted in the artwork, but all the NA mooks are either strutting or posing, like some sort of Catwalk Alliance.
Bob the Inquisitor better spill the beans of where these fabled Mantic clearances are, as I tend to hit the same stores he does (and just did this weekend) and saw none of these mythical bargain bin Mantic boxes.
As of right now there's barely 1k til the Northern Catwalk Committee are unlocked. Looking forward to seeing what they've got in store.
I fear Bob and myself will have to have a most fabulous and glamorous pose off skirmish battle in the near future.
Now if only I hadn't sold those bedazzled Chaos Warriors I stumbled across years ago!
I know I bought some for 75% off (possibly with another 10% for the .04 code?) at Brookhurst Hobbies. I also helped clear out Miniature Market. I bought some minis also at FLGS's near Monterey and Berkely. I've pretty much bought Mantic's original plastics only when I noticed they just happened to be fantastically cheap rather than actually seeking them out.
Remember that time someone was selling the NIB wraithguard for $10? Sometimes things just happen.
corgan wrote: Do you think that we will see the Northern Alliance elves and/or barbarians in HIPS? Even if not during this campaign, maybe in the future?
This campaign? Probably not.
In the future? Definitely.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice, Ice Baby! Northern Allliance Unlocked and Added to the Giant Pledge!
Ho! Vanguardians,
What a fantastic day yesterday - in fact according to the snazzy Kicktraq chart, it was the second best day of the campaign so far… guess a lot of you like the Northern Alliance ;-) Thanks again for all the support so far and we've still got a surprise or two up our sleeves!
Talking of the Northern Alliance, the great news is that overnight the total soared over $165,000 and that means the Northern Alliance Warband has been added to the $150 Giant Pledge for FREEEEEEEEE!
For those of you not on the Giant Pledge, you can now add the Northern Alliance to your pledge as a $45 Optional Extra. Simply click 'manage my pledge' and increase your total by the amount required. When we send the pledge manager round (which will be after Christmas) you'll be able to select the Northern Alliance as one of your Optional Extras.
Well, with all the recent developments we guess it's time for some more stretch goals! At $170,000 we'll be adding a brand new Vanguard objective: the burning beacon. This will form the basis of a scenario to light the beacon in order to alert the main force of your warband's location. If you manage to light the beacon, then in a larger game of Kings of War, you'll gain a more advantageous position during set-up. A neat feature of the beacon marker is that you can remove the flames from the top to indicate when it's lit or unlit.
Up next at $175,000 we'll be adding three PVC plastic Huscarls to the Northern Alliance Warband. These brave warriors form the backbone of the Northern Alliance and will have different weapon options too.
We'll be back later for our final Add-On Wednesday and it'll be a big one: terrain sets, army deals and more!
Alpharius wrote: Has Mantic's PVC gotten a lot better than the 'Deadzone Days' PVC?
If you mean Deadzone 1, then yes, hugely better, totally different formula. Still get a bit of heat bend on super thin stuff like spears and swords, but the detail is much better, and the mould lines are fewer and easier to clean.
Tonhel wrote: For that Northern Alliance warband those 3x mini's is it each time 3 unique mini's or just clones?
we'll be adding three PVC plastic Huscarls to the Northern Alliance Warband. These brave warriors form the backbone of the Northern Alliance and will have different weapon options too.
Same body with different weapon options and maybe variant head(s)
Alpharius the new Warpath PVC is a lot better than the original Deadzone stuff. I've seen a few complains about the Star Saga PVC but Mantic say it's the exact same stuff it would appear that the addition of the coloured dye causes a change in its properties but the Vanguard stuff should be plain grey like WP and Walking Dead and I've had no problems with it.
Tonhel wrote: For that Northern Alliance warband those 3x mini's is it each time 3 unique mini's or just clones?
we'll be adding three PVC plastic Huscarls to the Northern Alliance Warband. These brave warriors form the backbone of the Northern Alliance and will have different weapon options too.
Same body with different weapon options and maybe variant head(s)
Alpharius the new Warpath PVC is a lot better than the original Deadzone stuff. I've seen a few complains about the Star Saga PVC but Mantic say it's the exact same stuff it would appear that the addition of the coloured dye causes a change in its properties but the Vanguard stuff should be plain grey like WP and Walking Dead and I've had no problems with it.
Aha, the same body is used. Ok, that isn't a problem as i.e. I own a lot of V&V miniatures and i.e in this picture mini 1 and mini 4 use the same body (legs and torso), but as you can see the mini's are total different and with crisp detail.
It's a shame that Mantic is only showing artwork... instead of greens / renders for those Barbarians. I still don't understand that for a skirmish game with warbands that not all mini's are unique.
I'm guessing that even though there's a few repeat bodies and a large variety of troop types in most warbands, you wouldn't have more than a dozen or so models on the table at once, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue.
Having dealt with Privateer's repeated sculpts for so long I guess this is a bit of a non- issue for myself at least.
Let's face it : the human warriors from Northern Alliance are Varangurs. Hell, the huscarl concept art is nothing more than a previous Varangur concept art you can see in the Unexplored Empires Varangur List with a different pose.
I bet they will treat Northern Alliance like Force of Nature : a list with various units from other specific lists like Varangur, Elves and Trident Realm mixed together, which means you can use their miniatures for others lists as well. Classic Mantic move, here.
The fiction text in the blog did specify that the Northern Alliance humans were a mix of northmen, reformed Varangur, refugee Brotherhood, and exiles and outcasts from all across the Kingdoms of Men, not to mention outcast Half-Elves, Naiiads who rejected the trident king, and full blood Elves exiled or otherwise rejected from the major Elven kingdoms.
Cosmopolitan is that for which they were reaching, I'd say.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I know I bought some for 75% off (possibly with another 10% for the .04 code?) at Brookhurst Hobbies. I also helped clear out Miniature Market. I bought some minis also at FLGS's near Monterey and Berkely. I've pretty much bought Mantic's original plastics only when I noticed they just happened to be fantastically cheap rather than actually seeking them out.
Remember that time someone was selling the NIB wraithguard for $10? Sometimes things just happen.
Ever catch the Endgame minis swap meet (Oakland CA)? Crazy bargains to be had there. Some dude was throwing minis into the garbage can at the end of the day - we went in and pulled out boxes of Kaos ball figures. Bad game, mono-pose (I think maybe two poses?) figures, but pretty nice quality!
3D printed prototype of a HIPS basilean man at arms.
Proportions look decent IMO. Arms still looks a tad beefy and thick but that might be in part due to the material not being good for photographs and it being unpainted.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I know I bought some for 75% off (possibly with another 10% for the .04 code?) at Brookhurst Hobbies. I also helped clear out Miniature Market. I bought some minis also at FLGS's near Monterey and Berkely. I've pretty much bought Mantic's original plastics only when I noticed they just happened to be fantastically cheap rather than actually seeking them out.
Remember that time someone was selling the NIB wraithguard for $10? Sometimes things just happen.
Ever catch the Endgame minis swap meet (Oakland CA)? Crazy bargains to be had there. Some dude was throwing minis into the garbage can at the end of the day - we went in and pulled out boxes of Kaos ball figures. Bad game, mono-pose (I think maybe two poses?) figures, but pretty nice quality!
I have never been there. Is it a permanent thing, like a swap meet, or more like a special event hosted by the FLGS? Down here, BH and SoCal Games and Comics host swap events, which tends to be where I've found the best deals. Next time I am up in Oakland, I'll have to stop by. Well, there and Cafe Colucci.
We're eggstatic about the latest unlock! Can we mech it to $200,000?
Ho! Vanguardians,
Phew… yesterday was an amazing day on the Kickstarter. A quick check on the Kicktraq chart shows it was our second best day of the campaign so far and today is already shaping up to be stellar too. Overnight and this morning you've already unlocked a couple of stretch goals.
At $185,000 you've unlocked the Dragon's Egg Objective. This was a scenario designed by the Vanguardians and has now been added to the Join the Vanguard pledge, Two-Player Set and Giant Pledge. Thanks again for all the scenario suggestions - it was great fun reading them all.
Earlier today the total has flown past $190,000 and that means you can now add the Frost Giant resin Upgrade Kit to your pledge for just $10. This turns the standard plastic Giant into an imposing Frost Giant - which will be one of the new units in the Northern Alliance Kings of War army list.
The next goal is the awesome Ice Elemental for the Northern Alliance Warband. This super cool miniature comes on a 40mm x 40mm base and will be added to the Giant Pledge (taking that to a whopping 13 resin miniatures) and the $45 Northern Alliance Warband once we reach $200,000.
The Ice Elemental will complete the Northern Alliance Warband, which means we'll have finished off the four Vanguard Warbands we originally had planned for the Kickstarter. Hmm… guess we'll need something new once we blast through $200,000...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I know I bought some for 75% off (possibly with another 10% for the .04 code?) at Brookhurst Hobbies. I also helped clear out Miniature Market. I bought some minis also at FLGS's near Monterey and Berkely. I've pretty much bought Mantic's original plastics only when I noticed they just happened to be fantastically cheap rather than actually seeking them out.
Remember that time someone was selling the NIB wraithguard for $10? Sometimes things just happen.
Ever catch the Endgame minis swap meet (Oakland CA)? Crazy bargains to be had there. Some dude was throwing minis into the garbage can at the end of the day - we went in and pulled out boxes of Kaos ball figures. Bad game, mono-pose (I think maybe two poses?) figures, but pretty nice quality!
I have never been there. Is it a permanent thing, like a swap meet, or more like a special event hosted by the FLGS? Down here, BH and SoCal Games and Comics host swap events, which tends to be where I've found the best deals. Next time I am up in Oakland, I'll have to stop by. Well, there and Cafe Colucci.
It's an every-other-year thing. They don't do it that often, since it's mostly the same guys who come - I reckon there's a relatively small group of die hards who participate. I think it's fun, and the odd crazy deal can be had - I walked out with a built bane blade (~$150 model, I think?) for $15 one year. Ha.
Dwarf warband unlocked - $45 add on only (all resin)
Next up is another version of Ronnie the Bard
Then that Goblin on lizard that's been shown before finally gets a release as a $10 resin add on
It looks like at this point they are done with the warbands and pledges and are just funding odds and ends that they'd like to get made. Rumours of a new Blaine have not been ruled out.
Well, this wasn't the runaway success Mantic expected - I'm sure they wanted to hit some HIPS for the NA too. But it's decent. I'm happy with 4 proper warbands and HIPS basic troops for Nightstalkers.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well, this wasn't the runaway success Mantic expected - I'm sure they wanted to hit some HIPS for the NA too. But it's decent. I'm happy with 4 proper warbands and HIPS basic troops for Nightstalkers.
I think if the next couple of stretch goals were for HIPS sprues of northern alliance stuff there'd be hit pretty easy, but I expect any further goals will just be single resin models they can produce in house at this point.
The giant pledge has the value I'd expect from a mantic kickstarter and seems to have recovered the whole thing from the shaky start.
given the amount of unfinished stuff we're seeing I suspect they didn't really expect it to go much beyond this, although I'm sure they thought getting started would have been a lot easier
I also wonder what their capacity to tool a lot HIPS sprues in good time (as opposed to smaller cheaper ones for restic/pvc in softer metal), at least with only a few to do hopefully they'll all be produced in good time so this is 'only' 2 waves rather than 3 or 4
Would've liked a big hat dwarves warband but the resin dwarf one is a nice surprise. Poses aren't super exciting, hopefully by the time the pm comes out we can have some renders.
The $25 deal for the NA looks about my speed. I wish they had a Basilean deal that included the Paladins and Knights. I never saw those available anywhere at retail.
Kuzlo Unlocked! Translucent Ice Elementals Unlocked! A New Merc... and Blaine Appears!
Ho! Vanguardians,
It's the final day - so we have mixed emotions - sad that the campaign is coming to an end but excited about a couple of things we've still got up our sleeve. Yesterday was a fantastic day and a quick check on the Kicktraq chart shows it was the second best day of the campaign - can we beat it today?
Overnight a couple of stretch goals were gobbled up like Madfall eating an orcling. We've added our first mercenary into the game: Kuzlo, the goblin Wiz, and his trusty steed Madfall, the giant lizard. This is a wonderfully characterful miniature and we can't wait to see them in your Vanguard warband and goblin armies!
Secondly, it's another Kickstarter exclusive: translucent blue resin Ice Elementals. This special finish on the Ice Elemental will ONLY be available on the Kickstarter miniatures and the retail release will be standard grey resin.
Just in case you want to create a regiment of translucent blue Ice Elementals we've also got the Optional Extra to add two Elementals to your pledge for $20. To add an Optional Extra to your pledge, click on 'manage my pledge' and then up your total by the amount required. This will then become credit in the pledge manager (which we'll be sending after Christmas) and you can select the Optional Extras you want.
Our next stretch goal gives us the opportunity to balance up the mercenary options. Some mercenaries, like Kuzlo, will only work with evil warbands, while others may be neutral or will only work with Good factions. In order to give all you good guys the option to hire a merc - meet Firebrand the Salamander Corsair (that's right, a pirate lizard with a tiny dragon on her should instead of a parrot).
Firebrand is a legendary Corsair, renowned for breath-taking feats of bravery, swashbuckling action, and daring escapades. The stories of her adventures go back for centuries however and Firebrand often vanishes for years at a time before resurfacing in some spectacularly explosive way. Her fantastically exciting life and phenomenal skill are what all other Corsairs aspire to.
When the total skips past $240,000, you'll be able to pick up a resin Firebrand as an Optional Extra for just $10. Firebrand can then be added to your warband as a mercenary when things are getting tough.
Finally, he's stylishly late as ever, but it looks like Blaine will be turning up on the final day...
I do not like the paint job on that Corsair one bit. The leg scales look like they started sculpting a tyranid, then heard mantic were looking for sculptors and decided to phone the rest in.
So just to check, I can back this for $1 at no pledge level and I'll still get in the pledge manager right? I thought I read something about that in the first week, but can't be arsed scrolling through 4000 comments
NTRabbit wrote: So just to check, I can back this for $1 at no pledge level and I'll still get in the pledge manager right? I thought I read something about that in the first week, but can't be arsed scrolling through 4000 comments
It's in the FAQ page
Can I pledge $1 and still be able to access the pledge manager when the campaign finishes?
Yes! You can pledge any amount during the Kickstarter campaign and you will be sent the pledge manager. If you pledge $1, you’ll still receive the updates and information about the project too, so it’s a great opportunity to keep up to date with what’s happening in the campaign and what stretch goals we unlock.
Thanks! Because the corporate world sucks enormous donkey balls, now is really not a good time for me to be spending money on things that aren't eventually enforced by debt collectors. If that's still the case in January, I've got way bigger problems than losing a dollar on a KS project.
Why does Master Blaster have so many bubble wands? Is that how he directs his charge? "Oosy, look at the bubbles! Look at the bubbles! Go getch the bubbles! Go getch! Smashy their facies! Getch the bubbles!"
Also, full metal face mask, layered metal greaves, exposed belly button and décolletage? Is it Halloween in the Castro district again already?
TheAuldGrump wrote: What is probably the final stretch goal is... pretty much something that nobody will care about - a set of colored D6s....
The Auld Grump
Which is an indication that the ks went above their expectations. Over a quarter mill, plus all the extras people will add on to the pledge manager is nothing to be sneezed.
lord_blackfang wrote: Looks like two local players will relieve me of Basileans, NA and terrain, leaving me with my dear Abyssals and Nightstalkers. Which is perfect.
As usual, I have failed my saving throw against miniatures so this got more expensive than desired. Originally, I pledged for the Nightstalkers and Abyssals, but with the addition of the NA, that convinced me to go for the Giant Pledge. They'll probably get at least another $30 for the extra Ice Elementals and the giant upgrade, and possibly +$25 for the NA booster. Maybe someone will buy the Basileans from me.
TheAuldGrump wrote: What is probably the final stretch goal is... pretty much something that nobody will care about - a set of colored D6s....
The Auld Grump
Which is an indication that the ks went above their expectations. Over a quarter mill, plus all the extras people will add on to the pledge manager is nothing to be sneezed.
, between this and a hated bosses last day at work tonight, I will go to bed with a smile on my face . It didn’t exceed any expectations if they had to drop the span between stretch goals to 5K and add a shed load of stuff to the main pledge, AND develope new pledges to get the ball rolling. Plus everything is resin and board game plastic, all the kits aren’t even going into HIPS .
With the Kickstarter falling short of funding a bunch of new HIPS for KoW like Mantic intended, they will be more inclined to actually develop Vanguard into a real game instead of treating it like fancy packaging for new KoW minis (like they did with DBX versus DBO)
I'm starting to get a bit confused by Mantic's difficulty in producing HIPS miniatures.
I know that the molds for the sprues are really expensive! But, Mantic tend to do two or three sprues a year using huge kickstarters. Meanwhile, Northstar, who are a really small company, seem able to get a sprue out once a quarter for Frostgrave and have expanded to doing roughly the same for Oathmark as well. And these aren't funded through Kickstarter, but via modest "Nickstarter" pre-order drives.
What's going on that Mantic still need these big drive to fund their big games? Are Frostgrave et al just so much more successful than Mantic games to be able to fund new plastic so much more rapidly? (Unless Kings of War rapidly dropped off in popularity, I have trouble believing that.) Are Mantic trapped in a cycle of needing Kickstarter funding to finish paying off the expenses of the last Kickstarter? (The dreaded 'Kickstarter cycle?')
I'm getting really curious about this, because Mantic just pulled a quarter mil to fund two HIPS sprues, a handful of PVC sculpts, a rulebook, and some resin sculpts. Meanwhile, Northstar routinely goes, "Here's a new HIPS sprue, a rulebook/supplement, and a bunch of new metal sculpts, ready to go! We're just going to do a pre-order event with some extras to try and frontload some early sales!"
Psychopomp wrote: I'm starting to get a bit confused by Mantic's difficulty in producing HIPS miniatures.
I know that the molds for the sprues are really expensive! But, Mantic tend to do two or three sprues a year using huge kickstarters. Meanwhile, Northstar, who are a really small company, seem able to get a sprue out once a quarter for Frostgrave and have expanded to doing roughly the same for Oathmark as well. And these aren't funded through Kickstarter, but via modest "Nickstarter" pre-order drives.
What's going on that Mantic still need these big drive to fund their big games? Are Frostgrave et al just so much more successful than Mantic games to be able to fund new plastic so much more rapidly? (Unless Kings of War rapidly dropped off in popularity, I have trouble believing that.) Are Mantic trapped in a cycle of needing Kickstarter funding to finish paying off the expenses of the last Kickstarter? (The dreaded 'Kickstarter cycle?')
I'm getting really curious about this, because Mantic just pulled a quarter mil to fund two HIPS sprues, a handful of PVC sculpts, a rulebook, and some resin sculpts. Meanwhile, Northstar routinely goes, "Here's a new HIPS sprue, a rulebook/supplement, and a bunch of new metal sculpts, ready to go! We're just going to do a pre-order event with some extras to try and frontload some early sales!"
Good quesion, it's indeed possible that they need a part of the raised money for paying other costs not related to the kickstarter itself.
Psychopomp wrote: I'm starting to get a bit confused by Mantic's difficulty in producing HIPS miniatures.
I know that the molds for the sprues are really expensive! But, Mantic tend to do two or three sprues a year using huge kickstarters. Meanwhile, Northstar, who are a really small company, seem able to get a sprue out once a quarter for Frostgrave and have expanded to doing roughly the same for Oathmark as well. And these aren't funded through Kickstarter, but via modest "Nickstarter" pre-order drives.
What's going on that Mantic still need these big drive to fund their big games? Are Frostgrave et al just so much more successful than Mantic games to be able to fund new plastic so much more rapidly? (Unless Kings of War rapidly dropped off in popularity, I have trouble believing that.) Are Mantic trapped in a cycle of needing Kickstarter funding to finish paying off the expenses of the last Kickstarter? (The dreaded 'Kickstarter cycle?')
I'm getting really curious about this, because Mantic just pulled a quarter mil to fund two HIPS sprues, a handful of PVC sculpts, a rulebook, and some resin sculpts. Meanwhile, Northstar routinely goes, "Here's a new HIPS sprue, a rulebook/supplement, and a bunch of new metal sculpts, ready to go! We're just going to do a pre-order event with some extras to try and frontload some early sales!"
Good quesion, it's indeed possible that they need a part of the raised money for paying other costs not related to the kickstarter itself.
Nope Mantic have stated and shown a couple of times that they ring fence KS funds.
As for Frostgrave by my reckoning they release not so much per quarter but every 7 months or so which is obviously a lot slower.
Frostgrave has a much lower production cost than Mantic's games due to Osprey doing the rules and artwork and obviously the books, they may or may not pay somthing towards the models hard to tell from interviews given(Nick is notoriously tight so would make sense but he may have cut osprey some slack. It also why they don't use KS as they want to avoid the fees)
That leaves North Star with just the plastic production costs which are normally covered to a great extent by the pre orders and sales of the metals.
Also worth remembering that there are moulds, and there are moulds - they can be machined out of different materials for vastly different prices, but as a result have different lifespans before they need to be replaced. A complicated design carved out of a block of hardened tungsten steel alloy may cost $500,000 but will still be pumping out perfect sprues until the heat death of the universe. A simpler design carved out of straight Aluminium may cost as little as $10,000, but can only survive 10,000 runs before degrading beyond usability.
GW moulds clearly lean towards the former, as will anyone aiming for mass battle and expecting to need to sell large numbers of the same sprue, whereas companies like Northstar and Wyrd selling for skirmish, where far less repeats of the same mini are needed per customer, will lean towards the latter.
As NTRabbitsay, there are differentcategoroes of mould, I remmeberr reading about one for lego that have been in use for 40 years and made millions of bricks (note that legos bricks despite looking simple need a high precision sothat bricks from 2à years ago are still compatible with bricks made today, so any warping or degradation of the mould would make it useless)
This kind of mould is very rentable over thelong term and the best option when you expect very large volumes,but it's also very expensive to make at the start and perfectly justify usiung kickstarter.
regarding how Mantic changed in the last year, giving us resin Drakons like on the concept art now and add a metal upgrade for different Kins later should fit their current business model
Aside from the great winged halfbreed reusing the Dungeon saga dragon body, all of their big dual kits have been all resin for both builds, not resin now and additional metal bits later.
Just wanted to give you a quick update to let you know that things are progressing very nicely with the project. Matt Gilbert is busy on the book and we'll be holding some special playtest days here at Mantic HQ - stay tuned for more details on those, if you'd like to attend.
Elsewhere Rob is putting the finishing touches to the pledge manager to make sure it's all running smoothly. The current plan is for that to launch towards the end of next week. We'll be using BackerKit again, which has always proved to be very easy to use.
Finally, Stewart is receiving lots of lovely renders for the miniatures that we only had concept art for during the Kickstarter. You can see some of those below. Fingers crossed we'll be back next week with details of the pledge manager. In the meantime, enjoy the renders below...
Is it me, or do they look a bit...squat? Like, the legs look disproportionately short to me. Also, that big four legged demon is totally from Doom 4. His head is, anyway
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Is it me, or do they look a bit...squat? Like, the legs look disproportionately short to me.
Also, that big four legged demon is totally from Doom 4. His head is, anyway
They don't wear battle heels.
Those are some lovely renders, if minis are anything like that..they will be awesome.
The legs on the Northern Alliance guy are in a really weird and awkward pose, like some sort of yoga squat named after a crustacean. I'm also not hugely into the snow drifts on top of the ice elemental.
The only two that look iffy to me are the faceplate on the Lurker (Which Mantic have said on fb will have an alt head, so brill) and the Britney headset mic on the last pic.
NTRabbit wrote: The legs on the Northern Alliance guy are in a really weird and awkward pose, like some sort of yoga squat named after a crustacean. I'm also not hugely into the snow drifts on top of the ice elemental.
The rest are cool though
Yeah, that pile of snow really doesn't fit...would be much better without it.
I could swear that I have seen SCAdians* in the exact pose that the Northern Alliance fellow has.
During the 'Trying to look big and scary' part before the charge.
The Auld Grump
* SCAdians, members of the Society for Creative Anachronism - folks that dress up in armor, carry shields, and beat each other senseless with rattan 'swords'. It is great fun. (Malagentea is my local shire - half the players in my gaming group are Malagenteans, and I was a member for a long time as well.)
They all look like a step ut for mantic in terms of quality. The length of the legs look fine to me. They are shorter compared to the usual super model in battle heels we are used to see in miniatures however. The elemental is kinda cute I think, The armored shoes on the dwarf however,,, They are very ugly indeed.
jorny wrote: They all look like a step ut for mantic in terms of quality. The length of the legs look fine to me. They are shorter compared to the usual super model in battle heels we are used to see in miniatures however.
Agree completely, it's great to see female models without high-heels.
The armored shoes on the dwarf however,,, They are very ugly indeed.
They're his kickin' boots, as opposed to his mining boots, his walking boots or his drinking boots (9 different varieties). Designed to kick shins, knees, and once you've hacked someone's legs from under them, heads.
Price changes effective 1st February - applies to all ranges but seems to affect fantasy more so posted it here. Dollar and Euro prices largely unaffected this brings GBP prices more into line with other currencies although their conversion rates are still way out. Euro is currently .88 GBP not .75 ( or worse .62 for resin units!)
Hi everyone, it’s Ronnie here…
We don’t ever like to change prices – unless it’s doing crazy deals during a sale or while running a Kickstarter campaign. However, the effects of Brexit and the weaker pound mean we can’t absorb production cost rises anymore and a few £ prices are going to change this year. While we were at it, we tweaked a few of the Euro and Dollar prices too but these were mostly downwards!
The price changes will come into effect on February 1st. So, we wanted to give you the heads up about the prices that will be changing and to give you the chance to pick anything up before they come in effect on our website. Remember that we’ve currently halved the free shipping minimum spend too, so you only have to spend £25/€35/$40 to qualify for free shipping.
PRICE INCREASES
First up the £13.49 price bracket is changing to £14.99. This means items like the Walking Dead boosters will be going up by £1.50. The Euro and Dollar prices remain the same
The current £14.99 range will increase to £17.99. This will affect products like the Strider with Burst Laser and Doomstorm Pattern Iron Ancestor. The Euro and Dollar prices remain the same
Items at £17.99 change to £19.99. This will include a lot of the Kings of War regiments – so if you’re thinking of starting an army (or adding to an existing army) perhaps now’s the time to pick them up.
The £34.99 products will increase to £39.99. This isn’t a particularly common price point but it does mean the Walking Dead Core Game will cost £39.99 (the Euro and Dollar prices remain the same)
$84.99 becomes $89.99. This will primarily change the Kings of War army prices, along with the Warpath starter forces. The Pound and Euro price remains the same
Resin Heroes will increase to £9.99/€14.99/$19.99 – which means the new Kings of War resin heroes will be going up slightly. However, we’re delighted with the quality of our resin and this means we can continue to produce resin miniatures with the same level of high detail!
Resin units (like the Thuul) will be going up to £24.99/€39.99/$39.99
The Steel Behemoth’s price will change to £39.99/€54.99/$64.99 because of the sheer amount of parts (26 in total)
PRICE DECREASES
But it’s not all about price rises! We’ve also taken this opportunity to reduce a few prices too.
Items currently at €10.99 drop to €9.99
Some items currently at $19.99 drop to $17.99 (this is specifically those items that are currently at £9.99/$19.99)
Items currently at €39.99 drop to €34.99
Items currently at $49.99 drop to $44.99
Items currenly at $59.99 drop to $49.99
We’re still determined to make our hobby accessible, fun and affordable. Your support during Kickstarter campaigns helps us hugely with the tooling and development costs. This helps us keep prices as low as possible for the fantastic products you help make.
Thank you for supporting us through 2017 and this year promises to be even bigger with DreadBall Second Edition, TerrainCrate, new Walking Dead and Kings of War: Vanguard. Plus, we’ll have more tournaments, a Deadzone summer campaign, a few surprises and MantiCon US later in the year. I can’t wait to see how 2018 unfolds!
Do they still add some of the postage costs to the conversion rates?
I just remember a year back that you could order in a different currency (order in pound from a euro country) but than had to pay more for shipping and ended up with nearly the same amount
My willpower is sapping and I'm about ready to pledge late for Vanguard, but does anyone know from te top of their head was stretch goals are included in the $45 Nightstalkers warband?
When did that become more beautifull than my fatty giants?
Stop with this unreachable standards please. My 5 Greenskin/Chaos Giants are gonna become embarrased of their body.
(Now being serious, nice giants. I love fantasy giants, the only models that I "collect" has a hobby, just for the pleasure of having a collection of giants. I'll surely grab the two normal ones and the Ice one)
Gallahad wrote: That has to be Mantics best model. Kudos to the sculptor, they really knocked it out of the park with that one.
Their sculpts have been getting *way* better as of late. The hurdle now is production piece - too many times the renders look great but the supply chain screws up the actual model. At least now we also get to see 3d resin prints, which if they look good...chances are the final will be pretty good
Argh... I only put in for two in the kickstarter, with one extra frost giant conversion kit.
If they come out this good, I'll have to get the 3rd to make a good variety.
I've been using Bones giants for my Ogre Army as I just could never get myself to buy that derpy pot bellied GW one.
Here's hoping Mantic can make it look as good as the previews. The Warpath CGPS mule and flyer looked good in previews but we're still waiting for them to get produced.
I can totally get why people don't like the aesthetic of the GW's giant. But it is not in any way a bad kit. Its the opposite, one of the best kits GW has done in personalization, customization and amount of options that it gives you.
Here's a little sneak peek at the Kings of War Orc/Goblin Slasher that will be heading your way in June. Can't wait to see the finished thing in resin.
I saw one 3D print of the giant and it was before they released this excellent version. The previous one looked a little skinny and gangly, so I really hope the final comes out nice and beefy like this pic - so much more intimidating.
The $150 pledge as a deal looks good, but I find myself really only interested in the Northern Alliance. Going for rulebook + NA warband + Blaine is cheaper, but also feels like I'm getting less for my money. Tough decision.
I wish that mid range Join the Vanguard pledge let me choose the Northern Alliance instead of Basileans or Nightstalkers, because if it did that'd be my perfect pledge level.
The giant pledge is the way to go. I'll probably sell off / give away the basilean and night stalker warbands to encourage others to play. But I wanted the northern alliance and abyssal stuff and it worked out cheaper than getting a lower pledge and adding all them on.
It's also good to see more kings of war releases outside of Kickstarter, Ronnie has suggested most army's will get a character and / or monster this year.
It is a shame there are so few of the scarecrow parts that are useable. Only two heads with the cool hats and two legs. The rest are tentacle monster things. Oh well.
I put $1 into this intending to buy some basilean men at arms... But we still haven't seen sprue shots so I'm hesitating. They probably won't make the priority list and I'll just grab them at retail after somebody posts nice pictures of them in the actual plastic.
At least buy the Blaine, man! How can you not buy the Blaine?
But in all seriousness, if the Men at Arms are as good in quality as Mantic's latest releases, then I'll be more than pleased. I hope they look good next to the fantasy Conquest plastics.
I wonder if there is someone reading this at FFG's Runewars division whose eye is twitching hard right now.
If those are production models then I might buy some Mantic figs again . If they are resin masters and the material for production is still in doubt...then I’ll wait to see how they finally come out. I still don’t like the wing on the Basillean armors.
I think Mantic has really gone above and beyond in the space of dynamic scuplts and details. Yes, I do hope the finished models hold this level of detail, but the pure aesthetics of them are stellar - well done, Mantic!!!
Ohhhhh.... I must have those Abyssals and the Night Stalkers. I kinda hope they do an up-armor kit for their basilean panthers too... they'd look badass witht he he-man battlecat treatment.
I've been super impressed with some of the recent mantic sculpts - their resins from the edge of the abyss campaign were *great*.
Basileans - I'm glad the wings are totally separate it's one of the things I don't like about the Basilean design so I can leave them off.
Nightstalkers
Northern Alliance - first look at the Frostfang Cavalry, the fur looks good that's often a problem on these type of minis
Also, we've produced an example of the Frost Giant Upgrade Kit. This may have turned out slightly bigger than we expected... so the $10 kit is certainly great value. The weapon alone is bigger than some of our existing resins! Basically the slightly lighter grey parts are the pieces you'll be receiving if you opted for the Frost Giant kit in the pledge manager. What a beast!
My thought as well. It’s been a while since I looked at my army lists, but I thought multiple giants were a thing, and having one or more of these guys on a table would be ridiculous.
Well, it's a giant. How big is a giant or dragon? Go through 30 years of Citadel, Ral Partha, RAFM giants and tell me which are right or wrong. Then add Forge World and Mierce into the mix.
While I think that giant is pretty cool, and I'll be happy to get however many I ordered (at least 2 + 1 upgrade), I'm more worried by the fact that they apparently didn't know how big it would turn out? Or to be more precise, the implications for that on other, future models.
Well, it's a giant. How big is a giant or dragon? Go through 30 years of Citadel, Ral Partha, RAFM giants and tell me which are right or wrong. Then add Forge World and Mierce into the mix.
While I think that giant is pretty cool, and I'll be happy to get however many I ordered (at least 2 + 1 upgrade), I'm more worried by the fact that they apparently didn't know how big it would turn out? Or to be more precise, the implications for that on other, future models.
I believe that is in reference to the upgrade kit not the giant, I.e. they didn't realise how much resin would be used in the boots/weapon/head/shoulder cape etc, if they had they wouldn't have been selling the upgrade kit for $10.
YouKnowsIt wrote: There's a load of information on the KoW story collection out next month and the future novels they have planned in the latest Counter Charge podcast:
Well, it's a giant. How big is a giant or dragon? Go through 30 years of Citadel, Ral Partha, RAFM giants and tell me which are right or wrong. Then add Forge World and Mierce into the mix.
While I think that giant is pretty cool, and I'll be happy to get however many I ordered (at least 2 + 1 upgrade), I'm more worried by the fact that they apparently didn't know how big it would turn out? Or to be more precise, the implications for that on other, future models.
I suspect LBF means that it’s scale is complete nonsense in relation to Mantic’s other monster models going by that picture, rather than it breaking some inherent unwritten rule about wargaming giant models.
But it's a giant. I've got almost all the KoW rulebooks, and I don't recall any definitive sizing descriptions on how large various monsters are. There's also nothing wrong with them changing and redoing their monsters. GW have certainly done the same, multiple times. And anyway? How big is a giant? Sizing looks fine to me.
A larger dragon in their future to replace the Boardgamish one from DKH? Sure.
Azazelx wrote: But it's a giant. I've got almost all the KoW rulebooks, and I don't recall any definitive sizing descriptions on how large various monsters are. There's also nothing wrong with them changing and redoing their monsters. GW have certainly done the same, multiple times. And anyway? How big is a giant? Sizing looks fine to me.
A larger dragon in their future to replace the Boardgamish one from DKH? Sure.
One problem with Mantic seemingly going the GW route of scale-creeping their monsters bigger and bigger is that the rules of KoW (generally) penalize you for using a lager base than the nominal 50x50mm (or sometimes 50x100)mm specified as standard for monsters, even though you're allowed to use a larger base if the model needs that.
Pretty sure they're working on a rule change that creates two classes of monster, the current one on 50x50 or 100x50, and a larger one on 75x75 or ?x?, balanced and pointed accordingly. Similar to the difference between infantry and heavy infantry.
hah, poor Mantic. They're getting bitched at for not following someone's internal size consistency for how big giants should be in Mantic's own ... fantasy... universe.
Azazelx wrote: I'm more worried by the fact that they apparently didn't know how big it would turn out? Or to be more precise, the implications for that on other, future models.
IIRC the original concept artwork for the upgrade pieces showed them as attachments to the model. From what they have shown it looks likely that the upgrade pieces are now are replacement parts for the model instead. Replacement parts is a much more robust solution but means they the individual pieces are much bigger than anticipated.
Giants will only become more giant so long as there is an advantage to being able to reach the succulent leaves at the tops of trees. If you want your giants to get smaller, you need to trap a breeding population on an island.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If there really is an advantage to using smaller giant minis, just use a converted ogre as a Pygmy Giant who swam to the mainland.
NTRabbit wrote: Pretty sure they're working on a rule change that creates two classes of monster, the current one on 50x50 or 100x50, and a larger one on 75x75 or ?x?, balanced and pointed accordingly. Similar to the difference between infantry and heavy infantry.
Yeah, that's been rumoured to be in the works for a while. Maybe in 3rd ed?
It would be welcome, since it's a bit silly that their official dragons are sold on bases bigger than what they nominally have, and can't really fit on anything less. It'll better facilitate the use of peoples existing modern GW monsters as well, without getting too penalized.
Still, early humans hunted pygmy elephants to extinction ... so the same may occur with pygmy giants.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Giants will only become more giant so long as there is an advantage to being able to reach the succulent leaves at the tops of trees. If you want your giants to get smaller, you need to trap a breeding population on an island.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If there really is an advantage to using smaller giant minis, just use a converted ogre as a Pygmy Giant who swam to the mainland.
Giants make sense to make bigger, because they get bigger in the direction that matters least for mostly 2D games: straight up. There's a reason every GW dragon for a decade or so was coiled up like a spring.
Zywus wrote: Yeah, that's been rumoured to be in the works for a while. Maybe in 3rd ed?
It would be welcome, since it's a bit silly that their official dragons are sold on bases bigger than what they nominally have, and can't really fit on anything less. It'll better facilitate the use of peoples existing modern GW monsters as well, without getting too penalized.
I expect we'll get it in a FAQ or the final 2E CoK first, though I guess it could be pushed as far as beta testing for 3E
Still, early humans hunted pygmy elephants to extinction ... so the same may occur with pygmy giants.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Giants will only become more giant so long as there is an advantage to being able to reach the succulent leaves at the tops of trees. If you want your giants to get smaller, you need to trap a breeding population on an island.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If there really is an advantage to using smaller giant minis, just use a converted ogre as a Pygmy Giant who swam to the mainland.
If you want to see how giants are going extinct, there's a video game called Shadow of the Colossus that should demonstrate it pretty well.
How come Mantic does 50x50 for their monster bases? I know WHFB used to do that, but many monster today from different companies (GW, Mierce, Creature Caster etc) are quite big and would probably be pretty unstable even if they fit on a 50x50.
I believe it was a rejection of the 'centrepiece model' syndrome that plagued the other game. KoW is supposed to be about an army, not about a huge and hugely powered centrepiece with a couple of minimum point escorts, hence monsters were put on reasonable bases and given useful but not silly (same as magic users) abilities for their points.
Yeah, rules were written for the game and not for specific models
for the various larger models out there you are allowed to use larger bases
but in general for the game, adding another class of "heavy" monsters with 75x75 or 50x100 bases would not be that bad
other games writing the rules/base size with specific miniatures in mind have other problems, are much more restrictive and it looks wired if you are using normal sized models
I would have liked a smaller Giant that is more in line with other large models in the game but than people wanted Mantic to make an impressive model.....
I just base models on bases that are appropriate for the model, and don't stress about the official base size. It's not been a problem, given the "use whatever size fits yer model" in the rulebook. But I also don't play in competitions or tourneys, when it being a disadvantage might become an issue.
Mymearan wrote:How come Mantic does 50x50 for their monster bases? I know WHFB used to do that, but many monster today from different companies (GW, Mierce, Creature Caster etc) are quite big and would probably be pretty unstable even if they fit on a 50x50.
I have seen a picture of the new Archaon perched on a 50x50... It's already great that Mantic does not try to force the use of Mantic models (like most companies); I don't see why they should also be expected to accommodate the crazy models other companies put out. KoW is the game for the other type of player to the "smash with epic monsters!!!“ that GW is targeting.
kodos wrote:Yeah, rules were written for the game and not for specific models
for the various larger models out there you are allowed to use larger bases.
Mantic did write rules with particular models in mind for the "WHFB port" armies in Uncharted Empires, but they kept it in check and didn't bend or break the game for it though.
NTRabbit wrote: I believe it was a rejection of the 'centrepiece model' syndrome that plagued the other game. KoW is supposed to be about an army, not about a huge and hugely powered centrepiece with a couple of minimum point escorts, hence monsters were put on reasonable bases and given useful but not silly (same as magic users) abilities for their points.
My interest both in fantasy and sci-fi is the societies and cultures, not the huge unstoppable monsters or aliens. The monsters might have a role as antagonists or plot points, but they are rarely interesting enough to me to be the focus of the narrative. Similarly, the army aspect of fantasy miniatures is why I play, not the monsters, so I'm happy with Mantic's design decision.
I'm also a fan of infantry blocks, but the current monster size of 50x50 is a bit on the small side, to the degree that even Mantics own models have to do gymnastics to fit on it
I feel like the issue of model size is completely separate from that of army composition. You can easily up the base size for monsters without changing their function in the game.
Mymearan wrote:How come Mantic does 50x50 for their monster bases? I know WHFB used to do that, but many monster today from different companies (GW, Mierce, Creature Caster etc) are quite big and would probably be pretty unstable even if they fit on a 50x50.
I have seen a picture of the new Archaon perched on a 50x50... It's already great that Mantic does not try to force the use of Mantic models (like most companies); I don't see why they should also be expected to accommodate the crazy models other companies put out. KoW is the game for the other type of player to the "smash with epic monsters!!!“ that GW is targeting.
They should however be expected to accommodate the models they themselves put out.
And a lot of the newer Mantic models come on 75x75mm bases. Like the Abyssal Dwarf and Undead dragons.
So it's great that there's rules on the way to accomodate these bigger models. As a bonus, it's gets easier to use other companies crazy big monsters.
I lost interest in WHFB back in 5th edition when it transitioned fully into HeroHammer. I didn't play another fantasy game of scale until KoW came along. I'm all about the troops over the heroes and monsters.
However, I like large cool models, (including large infantry, large cavalry and so on) so having more "official" options for basing beyond the laughably small 50x50 can only be a good thing.
KoW started as an excuse for Mantic's not-GWHFB models to exist and through a combination of quality, work and some fortuitous circumstances became a much bigger thing. But from the start their models were always designed to be used in WHFB, so DarkBlack's assertions about KoW are either uninformed or somewhat disingenuous.
I also think KoW is a much better game than WHFB5-8 at the very least (and by association, 9th Age), but let's not pretend that it came from a place other than proxy sales and accommodating people's existing Warhammer model collections.
Mymearan wrote: I feel like the issue of model size is completely separate from that of army composition. You can easily up the base size for monsters without changing their function in the game.
I mean, you're literally right. You, the modeller, can easily up the base size for monsters without changing their function in the game. You'll simply find that monsters do better on 50x50 than larger sizes, first because it's easier to grab flanks and second because it's harder for multiple units to charge them (and third and fourth and so on). But that doesn't mean you can't upsize to meet your aesthetic needs - I've got greater fire elementals on 75x75 and while I don't regret it, as the models look much better with some room to breath, they are demonstratively better in game on smaller bases, especially with their tiny number of attaks.
Side Comment: Still loving KOW, particularly the more time I spend with 40k and its shortcomings
Azazelx wrote: I also think KoW is a much better game than WHFB5-8 at the very least (and by association, 9th Age), but let's not pretend that it came from a place other than proxy sales and accommodating people's existing Warhammer model collections.
It's even more complicated than that, really. Mantic started with a range of a few armies, each with a few sprues. These were pretty openly proxies. While there were KOW rules (this was about 2009-2010), they were a bit of an afterthought.
However, by the time of the big, first KOW kickstarter, I think KOW became an end in itself: the game got bigger to make the kickstarter bigger. That closed in June 2012, and shipped about a year later. These rules were written by Alessio, and were damn solid right away.
The second kickstarter, which included the second edition rules, closed in December 2014 but started to ship in summer of 2015, which is when Age of Sigmar was released. That is when the prospect of it taking over became very real. There is the longstanding rumor that the Mantic staff were tipped off about the shift away from WFB, but even so, a lot of the hard work had been done prior.
By 2015, you saw products like Uncharted Empires, which is overtly a set of rules for WFB armies that didn't yet have mantic analogues, but also included two new armies, one of which is actually released (trident realms).
In many ways, KOW 2nd edition has actually had fewer rules changes since launching in 2015 than 8th edition 40k has since 2017, which shows that Mantic had laid a lot of groundwork for a well balanced and solid game prior to the collapse of WFB. The period in which Mantic was selling models for use in both systems (KOW and WFB) was longer than you might think, at about three years.
Azazelx wrote: KoW started as an excuse for Mantic's not-GWHFB models to exist and through a combination of quality, work and some fortuitous circumstances became a much bigger thing. But from the start their models were always designed to be used in WHFB, so DarkBlack's assertions about KoW are either uninformed or somewhat disingenuous.
I also think KoW is a much better game than WHFB5-8 at the very least (and by association, 9th Age), but let's not pretend that it came from a place other than proxy sales and accommodating people's existing Warhammer model collections.
How and why should where Mantic and KoW came from mean that Mantic is somehow obliged to fit models from other companies into their game now? After KoW has grown into it's own thing that can stand on it's own now. Sounds like a non sequitur to me.
Again, the fact that Manic have accommodated some models from GW into their game does not oblige them to do so for every model ever.
I like big models. The game can easily accomodate monsters that are regiment-sized instead of "slighty bigger ogre" sized, while keeping them at around 200 points and not taking anything away from the infantry blocks. It's nice to have a dragon that's not just a winged worm coiled in the same space that two regular horses take up.
Azazelx wrote: I also think KoW is a much better game than WHFB5-8 at the very least (and by association, 9th Age), but let's not pretend that it came from a place other than proxy sales and accommodating people's existing Warhammer model collections.
It's even more complicated than that, really.
Yes, I've been there since Mhorgoth's Revenge. I just didn't feel like typing it all out for DarkBlack's benefit, so thank you for doing so. Imagine my delight when I saw that the "included rules" in MR was that tiny pamphlet!
How and why should where Mantic and KoW came from mean that Mantic is somehow obliged to fit models from other companies into their game now? After KoW has grown into it's own thing that can stand on it's own now. Sounds like a non sequitur to me.
Again, the fact that Manic have accommodated some models from GW into their game does not oblige them to do so for every model ever.
1) Because they already did so.
2) Consistency
3) Their own models are larger and getting even larger.
4) It's entirely possible for a game to still be troop-focused and still have some amazing looking centrepiece models.
5) Ronnie and others there know and understand the visual and aesthetic impact that a big centrepiece dragon or a giant has for their game.
6) They're also very aware that allowing for other companies' large proxies only benefits their business in terms of consumer goodwill.
7) Which is more important than it has been in many yeras now that we have "New GW" and 40k 8th as revitalised competitors.
8) Nobody said "every model ever" except for you. People have been discussing allowance for larger models and monsters than 50x50 basing.
9) So stop moving the goalposts. That's a key sign of a gak argument.
10) Stop water carrying. KoW is strong enough not to need it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: I like big models. The game can easily accomodate monsters that are regiment-sized instead of "slighty bigger ogre" sized, while keeping them at around 200 points and not taking anything away from the infantry blocks. It's nice to have a dragon that's not just a winged worm coiled in the same space that two regular horses take up.
What I think we have here is someone with a "fan" mindset.
1) Because they already did so.
2) Consistency
3) Their own models are larger and getting even larger.
4) It's entirely possible for a game to still be troop-focused and still have some amazing looking centrepiece models.
5) Ronnie and others there know and understand the visual and aesthetic impact that a big centrepiece dragon or a giant has for their game.
6) They're also very aware that allowing for other companies' large proxies only benefits their business in terms of consumer goodwill.
7) Which is more important than it has been in many yeras now that we have "New GW" and 40k 8th as revitalised competitors.
8) Nobody said "every model ever" except for you. People have been discussing allowance for larger models and monsters than 50x50 basing.
9) So stop moving the goalposts. That's a key sign of a gak argument.
10) Stop water carrying. KoW is strong enough not to need it.
1: That is what I asked you explain. Stating something is not an explanation.
2: That's a start, but Mantic have already left out models that didn't fit, like Chaos chariots.
3: Fair enough, not everthing from all companies will fit on a 75x75 either though.
4: I would argue that those are extremes that have to be balanced or favoured.
5: Mantic has made nice and big models but that are not massive. I also don't think that centre pieces are or should be KoW's focus. Don't think Mantic can beat GW at that game, nor that Mantic should target that market.
6: They already have that goodwill, bending over backwards (so to speak) to get a little more to the extent that the game has to change is further that they need to go
The solid rules are the selling point and should cons first.
7: I don't think the kind of players who are fans of KoW (Johnnys) and the kind of players who the new versions of Warhammer (Timmys) overlap that much. "New GW" is better, but Warhammer still has many of the same old problems; which has lead to many that were hoping for better giving up on GW.
8: That particular bit of flippant exaggeration to punctuate a point was in reference to arguing that Mantic should change thier rules because of what other companies are making.
9: I was clarifying the same point and rebutting yours. Turns out we have to put more effort into expressing our view when arguing than when casually commenting.
10: I am not familiar with that term.
Condidering that this is a news and rumours thread:
The TL: DR is that I don't think Mantic will or should be adding rules for even bigger monsters (than we have already seen)
That giant though.... Mmmmm - I can hardly wait until my wife uses it to decimate my forces. (Her current giant is a Reaper Bones giant, nicknamed ROFLStomp....)
I'm assuming all the little bits littering the fields are painted Terrain Crate items though. Looking forward to getting all that clutter and my Vanguard figures- they're looking good!
I'm assuming all the little bits littering the fields are painted Terrain Crate items though. Looking forward to getting all that clutter and my Vanguard figures- they're looking good!
Tabletop world with Terrain crate scatter - the horse and cart is terraincrate as well
Pretty much like everything, though yes, the Basileans could use a bit of grit, even if that probably goes against whatever their fluff is
Digging the Abyssal heroes, lots of character in there, and I do like where they're taking the official Night-Stalkers. Suitably gribbly
But gotta say, I feel like the ice elemental could be scaled up a bit, compared to all of those other monsters around it (and trying to ignore the truly towering giant behind it). Assuming it's a greater elemental, not a biggish lesser (ala obsidian golems) ...
But gotta say, I feel like the ice elemental could be scaled up a bit, compared to all of those other monsters around it (and trying to ignore the truly towering giant behind it). Assuming it's a greater elemental, not a biggish lesser (ala obsidian golems) ...
The Ice Elemental is a lesser rather than greater they are meant to be fielded in units in KoW so the size is correct
This week we’re delving into the Mantic archives to re-release some miniatures that have been lost over the 9 years Mantic has been running. This blog will go over the returning fantasy miniatures
DaveC wrote: May Metal Madness starts today with fantasy.
This week we’re delving into the Mantic archives to re-release some miniatures that have been lost over the 9 years Mantic has been running. This blog will go over the returning fantasy miniatures
I literally just gave 30pts worth of Mantic points away to a friend who I had gotten enamored with Walking Dead (so he could get the pt Exclusives)... :-( I really want to snag those Dwarf items though...
It's the CGI final form of the viallain played by a slight British actor that ruins the third act. "I will destroy you! For ultimate power! Wait...what are you--Noooooo!"
FWIW I think this mini (on the left) is the best Chroneas counts as I know of:
(As painted by Direct Misfire / SpOOn - still looking for the original mini, I've come across it before I'm sure. Not a conversion either, you can buy this shadow demon thing.)
I dig the Mantic one, looks suitably towering and laser-y. Unlike most Chroneas, having feet helps remind that the unit isn't flying, which I never remember.
Abyssal Chroneas and Orc Krudger on Winged Slasher are very cool looking.
But the Basilean High Paladin on Dragon is just horrible, specially the dragon. It looks like a cheap 5€ toy. Maybe the paladin is better than the mount.
Galas wrote: Abyssal Chroneas and Orc Krudger on Winged Slasher are very cool looking.
But the Basilean High Paladin on Dragon is just horrible, specially the dragon. It looks like a cheap 5€ toy. Maybe the paladin is better than the mount.
I have the Paladin from the KoW 2.0 KS. Paladin is good, Dragon is... the Dungeon Saga Dragon...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Pretty sure that demon is from Blood Keep Miniatures, who I think were out of Malta or somewhere small.
Bingo!
And yep, not really available any longer, at least not from their shop (which has nothing in it)
RE: The KOW dragon, I can't argue, it's not a showcase sculpt. Better IMO than the copy-pasta Citadel S-dragon from back whenever, but obviously could use an update with the new generation of Mantic minis.
The KoW Dragon was designed first and foremost as a boss mini for a boardgame, meaning a vertical orientation made to fit on a card tile grid and let the heroes stand next to it without bumping, with the swappable head ability for KoW armies a secondary 'hey let's make the most of this' consideration. It is what it is.
Mine is the basic DS one without a rider; I'm only an average painter and I thought it turned out just fine detail wise.
edit: Interestingly, something about imgur has muted the colours, the jpg opened in windows photo viewer has much more vibrant colours. Wonder why that is?
kodos wrote: I have the Dragon here and I like it
Not the best in material but a better design than all those Large Snakes with wings stuff GW has made
It is clearly made for gaming and not for Showcase
kodos wrote: I have the Dragon here and I like it
Not the best in material but a better design than all those Large Snakes with wings stuff GW has made
It is clearly made for gaming and not for Showcase
My thoughts exactly!
Aesthetics are personal. I think it looks like a cheap toy for the kind of gaming that a child does when playing with their toy soldiers (I have one or two from DS backing) and much prefer the GW "snake" style dragons over the DS one, though they're not my favourite type either. Made for gaming but not to look good might be another way to put it.
Mantic certainly have proved that they can produce better than that, so I'll chalk it down to a "growing pains" model for the time.
If you like it though - knock yourself out. All good. If you can't like it without stopping to insult other models though, then expect the same quality of opinion in reply.
I generally like Mantic models, but the Dragon (along with the Soul Reavers) are models I can't stand. They just look like cheap kids toys.
I can see the reason why the dragon was designed like this - keeping it to fit over a particular base size for use in a boardgame. This also fits with the KoW base sizes.
NTRabbit's done a good job of painting it - far better than Mantic did, but the model is poor.
Here's hoping they redesign the dragon in hard plastic to the same quality as their vehicles. After all, with head swaps and rider swaps, it gets a use in a lot of armies.
Can someone tell me where they are buying cheap plastic 'toy' dragons from that look as good as that?
The closest 'toy' dragons I have been able to find with decent quality are the pre-painted Heroscape dragons which are great value for D&D/RPG and wargaming on a budget.
They might just not be available in Australia but I go shopping for toys regularly at a wide variety of stores and Im not seeing dragons anywhere.
As far as available at this very moment in toy stores, I don't know what's out there at present. As you know, that gak cycles through.
but assuming you're serious and not just arguing the point for poor old Mantic, I'll take you seriously and help out.
Ok, so first there's Bones, but we're not talking about those. I'll show you some toys that are cheaper and far better than the Mantic ones. Yes, even for us Aussies. As I said, I think the Mantic dragon looks like a cheap toy (NT's paint job is quite good - and frankly - better than that model deserves!). I'm going to direct you to some toys that are better than Mantic's dragon. They're not cheap toys that look the same (because why would you want that) but they are cheaper and better looking. I'll give you a variety because as we all know - personal aesthetics are important.
For anytime draconic goodness:
Go to eBay. In your case, ebay.com.au.
Type in "Mcfarlane dragon".
Filter "price + postage: lowest first"
Choose from various dragons that are cheaper. The Mantic dragon is £29.99, (AU$54 before post) the undead one is £39.99 (AU$72 before post)
This one is AU$30 with free postage.
Spoiler:
Found one of these for AU$20 + $10 postage (this is a clearer picture - different seller)
Spoiler:
Do a GIS to see what's out there.
Minizoo is a local retailer that has a large variety of Schleich, Papo, etc animals, which includes tons of very good quality Dinosaurs (I've bought a fair few from them) as well as more explicit dragons.
https://www.minizoo.com.au/search.php?search_query=dragon
Some of these are getting towards the price of (but are still cheaper than) the basic Mantic dragon, but on the other hand, they gak all over the Mantic one. You can putty the joints and repaint, or just stick on a base and away you go. You may or may not need to supply your own rider if you want a rider as opposed to a "free" dragon. (I've got some McFarlane ones that have riders on them - need to find those models now that I've safely moved in here, actually!)
Remember, these photos are of the prepaints, not resin masters professionally painted by Angel Giraldez. They can easily be sprayed and repainted (I recommend any of Tamiya/Gunze/Mr Surfacer's fine primers as opposed to cheap crap from Bunnings).
MangoMadness wrote: Can someone tell me where they are buying cheap plastic 'toy' dragons from that look as good as that?
The closest 'toy' dragons I have been able to find with decent quality are the pre-painted Heroscape dragons which are great value for D&D/RPG and wargaming on a budget.
They might just not be available in Australia but I go shopping for toys regularly at a wide variety of stores and Im not seeing dragons anywhere.
See pic
Spoiler:
No worse, although slightly smaller.
This was the first link on a google search for me. I would imagine with some time spent, there's much better out there.
I know Toys R Us used to have an awesome display of prepainted fantasy figures, dragons and dinosaurs in a variety of scales. I even went so far as taking a mounted lizard man figure to check sizes for the dinos. They looked better than I could paint. In the end, I didn't get it as it was £25 and the wife was with me with that 'more toy soldiers' face on.
MangoMadness wrote: Can someone tell me where they are buying cheap plastic 'toy' dragons from that look as good as that?
The closest 'toy' dragons I have been able to find with decent quality are the pre-painted Heroscape dragons which are great value for D&D/RPG and wargaming on a budget.
They might just not be available in Australia but I go shopping for toys regularly at a wide variety of stores and Im not seeing dragons anywhere.
Here, we have decent, but not quite as nice, dragons at the dollar store and target. In the $15-$25 range, though, you get to Papo, Safari Ltd, Schleich, the brand that Michaels carries and so on. They are about the same quality as the Mantic Dragon, or better. On sites like Troll Trader, you can buy board game miniatures, including DnD dragons, but the prices vary dramatically.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I forgot about the McFarlane Dragons, and I even own some. Also, there are the Monster Hunter figures sold in import stores for about $8 each, but they are blind buys.
NTRabbit wrote: I visit the local dollar store occasionally, and when I do I always check to see if they have cheap animal toys I can use in KoW.
Even for a buck, the ones they have aren't worth it.
Go closer to Halloween? In my area, there are three different brands of dollar store, and two of them often get loads of great stuff, like Hot Wheels Star Wars Die Cast ships for $1 each, packs of Heroclix with four or five minis for $1, the MTG board games with tons of minis (Heroscape quality) for $5. I have recently bought Bones quality monsters, like a skeletal scorpion that is a foot long, skeletal birds, and this guy who is a lot cheaper than the Bones equivalent and looks quite nice.
Halloween isn't so much a thing down here, though it has increased in recent years amongst my fellow millennials, and I can't imagine why *peruses google image search of women's halloween party costumes* No, no idea at all
Decorations like that, still not so much. At least in my city, anyway. I've never seen Heroclix or MTG or anything remotely approaching a known brand in a dollar store, they're in hard enough to find in department stores, and are usually restricted to specialty game stores. Dollar stores are strictly limited to no name or copycat name brands produced in China and south east Asia.
Yeah, mantic as very cool models. Others are less cool, from the past most of them. I understand why the dragon was made with some characteristics, but even then, it is not the model to stand your ground and defend mantic.
That dragon is no better than the pumbagor. It does not mean the company is bad. Just that specific model. (and ey, one can like bad models. I LOVE gw minotaurs)
Which stores have dollar Heroclix boxes Inquisitor Bob? I may have to check my local ones then, as I always pick up packs to use with my students around the end of the year, what with them being familiar with most of the characters these days.
Are those legit McFarlane dragons? I don't recognize some of them, makes me wonder if recasters have gotten creative and done their own thing again. I've got some crazy Lego sets from China/ HK that don't match up to any actual offerings on the market, wouldn't surprise me if they've come up with their own designs.
I never owned any of the McFarlane dragons (as I was to cool for them at the time sadly) but always looked at them longingly.
My wife at least tolerates all the monsters around the house, may have to track some down....
99c Only stores carried them, at least in Fountain Valley/Huntington Beach. They were also the chain that carried the SW and MTG stuff I mentioned earlier. They are all sold out now, though...
If you want some Clix minis, I have some that I can give you. I'm not sure I can find all their cards, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And they're mostly DC. The Marvel boxes were $3.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Which stores have dollar Heroclix boxes Inquisitor Bob? I may have to check my local ones then, as I always pick up packs to use with my students around the end of the year, what with them being familiar with most of the characters these days.
Are those legit McFarlane dragons? I don't recognize some of them, makes me wonder if recasters have gotten creative and done their own thing again. I've got some crazy Lego sets from China/ HK that don't match up to any actual offerings on the market, wouldn't surprise me if they've come up with their own designs.
I never owned any of the McFarlane dragons (as I was to cool for them at the time sadly) but always looked at them longingly.
The ones I linked? Yes they are, but only the first two, when I referenced eBay were Mcfarlane. The latter group are Papo and Schleich. I doubt "recasters" would care enough about something as niche as the Mcfarlane dragons when there are things like Star Wars and Marvel superhero toys to knock off.
Most halloween toys we get here in oz are more rubber than hard plastic and the range is severely limited.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: In my area, there are three different brands of dollar store, and two of them often get loads of great stuff, like Hot Wheels Star Wars Die Cast ships for $1 each, packs of Heroclix with four or five minis for $1, the MTG board games with tons of minis (Heroscape quality) for $5.
Unfortunately we just dont have the clearance houses like minimarket, I often see the sales on there and even amazon and wish we could get close to those deals here. The MTG board game i was able to pick up cheaply though (nowhere near $5 though), great models for the price point, unfortunately couldnt get the expansions.
Overall I think my point in all this is that it is easy and incorrect to say "I can get better with a cheap kids toy" because sometime when we were a kid in the 80's we bought a $2 dragon and remember it to have been pretty cool. They just arnt cheap these days or if they are they are very small or made of rubber (like the cheap dinosaurs) which doesnt hold paint.
To be impolite, i call BS on "i can get better with a cheap kids toy"
This one is AU$30 with free postage.
Found one of these for AU$20 + $10 postage (this is a clearer picture - different seller)
Thanks for the links, i also found those on ebay and maybe its because I am tight with my money but I wouldnt call $30 a 'cheap kids toy'
To repeat myself again.
1) The Mantic dragon looks like a cheap kid's toy.
2) I am unaware of exactly what's available in the toy shops right now, as that gak cycles through.
3) Examples of cheap dragons came from others.
4) I never claimed that I knew of specific alternatives for $5 or $10. (again, check Bones offerings). I said the Mantic dragon looks like a cheap toy.
4) I showed you alternatives that are still cheaper then the Mantic one - often half the price or less, and all of which are better looking (subjectively, and IMO) than the Mantic one.
Overall I think my point in all this is that it is easy and incorrect to say "I can get better with a cheap kids toy" because sometime when we were a kid in the 80's we bought a $2 dragon and remember it to have been pretty cool. They just arnt cheap these days or if they are they are very small or made of rubber (like the cheap dinosaurs) which doesnt hold paint.
To be impolite, i call BS on "i can get better with a cheap kids toy"
Let's not be impolite and make up bs quotes. Because doing so is both impolite and bs and absolutely going out of your way to be a dick. So don't do that, please. What you claim above isn't actually what was said.
Let's use what both Gimagoo and I actually typed instead, eh?
Aesthetics are personal. I think it looks like a cheap toy for the kind of gaming that a child does when playing with their toy soldiers (I have one or two from DS backing) and much prefer the GW "snake" style dragons over the DS one, though they're not my favourite type either. Made for gaming but not to look good might be another way to put it.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I generally like Mantic models, but the Dragon (along with the Soul Reavers) are models I can't stand. They just look like cheap kids toys.
I can see the reason why the dragon was designed like this - keeping it to fit over a particular base size for use in a boardgame. This also fits with the KoW base sizes.
NTRabbit's done a good job of painting it - far better than Mantic did, but the model is poor.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Note to mods: I'm done with this tangent (and probably talking to Mango full stop as he's just hit the ignore list). I'd very much appreciate if you could leave the above post up, since I really dislike being deliberately misrepresented in the way that he chose to do, so the counterpoint is important - and the rest of the post provides valid models for anyone playing KoW or Warhammer or AoS or whatever (I've got a bunch in my own forces).
I'll also stop posting up alternatives in this one since it's Mantic's thread, and I don't wish to derail it further.
To be clear, I love a lot of Mantic minis and buy too many every Kickstarter. However, I find that they have released a lot of big, pricey monster minis that are just not very well designed, or even sculpted in some cases (like the large earth elemental). When a small mini is a miss, it doesn't matter. When a center prince mini is a miss, and also more expensive than reasonable competition, then that's a problem. Potential customers are likely to dismiss Mantic right away when the first Mantic minis they see are some of the worst in their class.
I assume that such missteps are caused by the decision makers at Mantic not keeping up with the current state of the miniatures market.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I assume that such missteps are caused by the decision makers at Mantic not keeping up with the current state of the miniatures market.
Miniatures and rules market would be a more accurate statement in my experience.
I like the lava rock exterior idea, makes the firey parts really stand out. I tried to pain an Eldar Avatar kinda like that once, and failed miserably.
Fantastic model. Some people seem upset that he looks like a fire elemental, when his fluff refers to some sort of timey wimey wibbely wobbely type magic. I think I might paint the fire parts purple and his skin dark red to fit in with the rest of my abyssal force.
This is another sign of mantics model range improving in quality.
Because apparently no one bothered to read the fluff when they commissioned the sculptor
"It is said that these black-skinned beasts have roamed the world since its creation, and only after the Sundering found service in the legions of the Wicked Ones. Around them, time can flow faster or more slowly than elsewhere, and their enemies are often caused to wither and die in a heartbeat as the curse of ages is placed upon them." - KoW2 Hardback Rulebook
Each day this week we're going to be announcing a new resin monster for Kings of War!
You might have spotted the Abyssal Chroneas in the newsletter - he's now available to pre-order, along with our Monster bundles. Each bundle contains a Chroneas and a Forces of the Abyss Army or Mega Army, with a discount versus buying separately!
Because apparently no one bothered to read the fluff when they commissioned the sculptor
"It is said that these black-skinned beasts have roamed the world since its creation, and only after the Sundering found service in the legions of the Wicked Ones. Around them, time can flow faster or more slowly than elsewhere, and their enemies are often caused to wither and die in a heartbeat as the curse of ages is placed upon them." - KoW2 Hardback Rulebook
Also, they have Breath Attack(20) in the rules.
Eh, the fluff is like a knockoff of the Shrike from Hyperion, and so's the sculpt.
None of the depictions of the Shrike I've ever seen have matched what I pictured in my head when I first read Hyperion (and the editions I read were the black covered Gollancz S.F. ones with no Shrike art on the front)
The shrike is supposed to have four arms, look like quicksilver, and be covered with barbs, blades and spikes. The Chroneas is closer to a Balrog than to the shrike, and it's not that close to a balrog.
The new Chroneas is actually a really solid model from Mantic, pretty different from how I imagined it I was more
thinking something along the lines of the primal Titan from Final Fantasy XIV, but this is cool regardless.
The water elemental is okay I guess, it does its job.
. It didn’t exceed any expectations if they had to drop the span between stretch goals to 5K and add a shed load of stuff to the main pledge, AND develope new pledges to get the ball rolling. Plus everything is resin and board game plastic, all the kits aren’t even going into HIPS 
.
. If they are resin masters and the material for production is still in doubt...then I’ll wait to see how they finally come out. I still don’t like the wing on the Basillean armors.
