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Post by: SamusDrake
tneva82 wrote:
Umm so either melta's would become LOT more expensive(everybody expected to have meltas) or LOT more powerful(all get melta for same price). As specific model which has melta is important you can't just go "this banner has 1 melta". either none have, all have or you need to be exact on what model has it. and for that wysiwyg is most easy way to identify.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you are referring to. We were talking about Melta-nipples. What is this "melta" you refer to? 
Seriously though, you are right. I guess the moral of the story is that wysiwyg applies so long as we remember to bring a magnifiying glass to the table. 
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Or they’re painted in such a way it’s more obvious.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Now that is a very good idea. Silver for stubbers, metalic red for meltas. Automatically Appended Next Post: Chopstick wrote:
According to this source :
-Other cerastus Knight in plastic! (no Atrapos  )
-Mechanicum Knight undecided as resin or plastic.
-Strategem card pack had new cards ( not surprised)
-No plan on adding tanks or infantry atm
-Homebrew Legio in WD!
Thanks for the info, Chop! 
Good to know a homebrew article is on the way( so much fun making a personalised army ) and that the Cerastus variants will be plastic kits. I assume those will be like the Questoris and have an upgrade sprue sold separately and included in the Cerastus sets going forward?
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Post by: Chopstick
 zedmeister wrote:
A single thunderbolt has 4 autocannons and 2 lascannons. Acastus knights have either two autocannons or two lascannon. So, a quick zoom on their previewed rules template and guess-extrapolating, a thunderbolt will deliver 2 Strength 4 hits and 2 strength 6 hits. Strong enough to dent shields, but most titans will be shrugging off those kind of weapons. Even 3-4 thunderbolts will struggle with a Warhound and that’s assuming above average rolling.
As flyers it should be easy to strike from the back, You only need 10-11 to score direct hit on Warhound/Reaver, most titan will be eating direct hit left and right, only the warlord can prove to be a little bit harder to score direct hit. And Titan's weapon are also pretty easy to disable at 9-11. Thunderbolt also carry Hellstrike missiles, and bomb. Depend on how they handle the rule (give them "hard to hit", deepstrike, high/low attitude fly) they can be an even better distrction carnifex than knights currently are.
Of course it's a game so they probably allow a titan to punch a jet fighter out of the sky, or blast them while they're above it, even though their guns can never reach that place.
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Post by: tneva82
JWBS wrote:
People that bought the most recent run of card terminals might be a bit / very dissatisfied that this wasn't available from day one
Naah. Not me. The pre made are lot more sturdy than what I could archieve. Plus black&white would look worse.
Good for those who like. I like sturdiness of cardboard though.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Interesting that they put the terminals up for download. Maybe sorting out enough print runs to satisfy demand was to much of a hassle and possibly affecting model sales? Although I do wonder if they will still continue with the cardstock versions for new units or just go with PDF versions in the future.
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Post by: schoon
The cynic in me thinks the PDF release has nothing to do with the fact that Knight Command Terminals have been OS at GW for months...
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Post by: zedmeister
Chopstick wrote:
As flyers it should be easy to strike from the back, You only need 10-11 to score direct hit on Warhound/Reaver, most titan will be eating direct hit left and right, only the warlord can prove to be a little bit harder to score direct hit. And Titan's weapon are also pretty easy to disable at 9-11. Thunderbolt also carry Hellstrike missiles, and bomb. Depend on how they handle the rule (give them "hard to hit", deepstrike, high/low attitude fly) they can be an even better distrction carnifex than knights currently are.
Of course it's a game so they probably allow a titan to punch a jet fighter out of the sky, or blast them while they're above it, even though their guns can never reach that place.
Aye, I know. I was considering the planes in isolation. You'd still need a dedicated airstrike to seriously dent a Titan. Hellstrike would probably hit the same as a lascannon and bombs less so. But then we need to consider counters (Knights with Icarus Weapons/Hyperios Batteries, Ardex weapons on Warlords being able to target aircraft, ground based AA, Interceptors bouncing the strike, etc). Though, a squadron of Marauder Destroyers unloading their full payload on a Titan would be scary especially if it's unshielded.
Finally, they'll be pushing my suspension of disbelief if they allow you to uppercut a thunderbolt mid flight...
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
The ardex weapons on the Warlord are mounted underneath the carapace; not much use for AA weapons.
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Post by: SamusDrake
The Knight terminals might be replaced with smaller ones, which would account for them being out of stock. It would be interesting to see if they adjust the price accordingly...
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Post by: deleted20250424
This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast.
Personally, I would add other Factions first and Tanks/Mans shortly after.
You can only sustain a game for so long rehashing similar units/models for so long.
I'd say about this long.
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Post by: Toofast
 TalonZahn wrote:This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast.
Personally, I would add other Factions first and Tanks/Mans shortly after.
You can only sustain a game for so long rehashing similar units/models for so long.
I'd say about this long.
Myself and many others are having a ton of fun with the game as it is. This is the most balanced game GW makes, or has ever made, because we all have access to the same stuff. No legion or maniple is an autoinclude. Knights have a place on a battlefield with proper terrain. There's enough variety in gameplay because of different mission objectives and legion/maniple special rules. I enjoy the titan combat and would rather see Ork/Eldar introduced than tanks and troops as they would be easier to implement and balance.
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Post by: Togusa
TalonZahn wrote:This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast.
Personally, I would add other Factions first and Tanks/Mans shortly after.
You can only sustain a game for so long rehashing similar units/models for so long.
I'd say about this long.
Is that why the weapon sprues are constantly out of stock?
Is that why my FLGS can't keep knight banners in stock for more than two days?
Is that why I get more notifications daily from my 2 AT FB groups, than all of my 40K FB groups + the GW official groups combined?
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Post by: gorgon
I do think they need to introduce some new (Imperial) Titans at some point. And they will...they've been saying so for quite a while. It's just going to take them some time. And it also makes sense if they wanted to see how the launch went before fully committing to that.
With all the maniple possibilities, Legio traits, stratagems, campaign scenarios, regular missions, battlefield conditions, etc...I'm pretty skeptical that people have exhausted the game's possibilities already, even with just three Titan kits and a couple of Knight kits.
And AT isn't Epic and isn't going to be. The focus is on Titans and Knights. I'd certainly embrace xenos Titans down the road though.
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Post by: xttz
 gorgon wrote:And it also makes sense if they wanted to see how the launch went before fully committing to that.
This. What we're seeing now will still be stuff that was under development before AT launched, possibly even before we saw the first models this time last year. It makes sense that this mostly consists of lower investment single-sprue kits like Knights or spires, and of cardstock / rules. GW wouldn't have committed too many resources to the game until they knew what kind of sales performance it produced. I have no doubt that given the performance we've seen, much more stuff will be on the way. Hopefully we'll even see new titan variants before the end of this year.
Personally I hope we'll see Xenos titans added in time, but any move to Epic should require a new rule set and be it's own thing. In the mean time Aeronautica Imperialis seems like a sensible stepping stone to help gradually build up a range of Epic-scale models.
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Post by: beast_gts
gorgon wrote:I do think they need to introduce some new (Imperial) Titans at some point. And they will...they've been saying so for quite a while.
Raptor Scout and Warrior Battle Titans have been heavily hinted at (while the Warbringer Nemesis is a few years off). I'm wondering if we'll see more resin 'upgrades' (Chaos panels for Titans or AdMech options for Knights) first.
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Post by: Togusa
gorgon wrote:I do think they need to introduce some new (Imperial) Titans at some point. And they will...they've been saying so for quite a while. It's just going to take them some time. And it also makes sense if they wanted to see how the launch went before fully committing to that.
With all the maniple possibilities, Legio traits, stratagems, campaign scenarios, regular missions, battlefield conditions, etc...I'm pretty skeptical that people have exhausted the game's possibilities already, even with just three Titan kits and a couple of Knight kits.
And AT isn't Epic and isn't going to be. The focus is on Titans and Knights. I'd certainly embrace xenos Titans down the road though.
See I'm not for Xenos stuff. And here is why.
Right now, the game is pretty well balanced. But, given we have history with GW, we can almost garuntee that introducing other factions with wildly different technology, will eventually destabilize the game.
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Post by: SamusDrake
TalonZahn wrote:This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast.
Personally, I would add other Factions first and Tanks/Mans shortly after.
You can only sustain a game for so long rehashing similar units/models for so long.
I'd say about this long.
To be fair, it does seem that way. Yet, deep down, I get the feeling they were being cautious by releasing the bare minimum and testing the waters.
Lets face it, the Questoris were expensive for what they were without options, and the Warlord - the "Space Marine" of the game - would not get variety in weapon loadout until they released a variant which...I think was late last November, only giving upgrade sprues in January. Of all the products in the range that needed to be out before anything else, it was those.
Come January, we get the Warlord weapons and news that the Specialist team is growing. Now, we have the Questoris soon to have upgrade sprues included in the standard kit, and now a second "8mm"( Epic-scale, whatever ) game announced. It also seems we'll be seeing revisions in strategem cards and Knight terminals.
As frustrating as the slow release schedule has been( Doom of Molech's release was crap ), it does appear to be that GW/ FW were not prepared for the success of Titanicus and are trying to match customer demand for the game.
I'd say give them benefit of the doubt and that we should expect to see new Titans and Knights by the end of the year.
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Post by: Chopstick
Compare to other game like Blood Bowls and Necromunda, Titanicus had more work and budget than those with a 1,2 years headstart.
With each titan took 3,4 times the amount of mold to made (in case of Warlord, 8 times) I figure they also need to make Knight and "Made in China" Terrain to keep up with the quarterly release schedule, now that they already burnt out on their initial release and are back on the designing and producting stage
And now they have Aeronautica Imperialis too, which seem to share team with AT (if they hire a new team, wouldn't they be making BFG instead so they said?) The workload for AT is pretty intense.
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Post by: schoon
While this may certainly be true in some regions, it is not objectively the case overall, as evidenced by continued sell outs and supply shortages.
To be fair, I think GW has been conservative on print runs, but they are selling what they print.
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Post by: Zenithfleet
To quote the archaeologist guy from the start of The Fifth Element: "Zis... is really amazing."
I've wanted to grab some Cerastus Knights for ages, but haven't seen their terminals in stock for, like, ever.
Bravo, GW. And I don't say that often. 
...wait a sec, now I have no excuse not to spend money on Cerastus Knights...
I take it back. Curse you GW! 
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Post by: xttz
I picked up some Lancers on release but didn't get any terminals for them at the time. It was hard to justify paying almost the same price as the model kit to get one piece of card. Between those, painting up a 5th Reaver for a Corsair maniple and the upcoming Acastus knights, it looked like I would have to spend nearly £50 on new cardstock just to field 3 units!
Now instead I'm quite happy to spend that money on building some Knight lances instead...
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Post by: JWBS
Yeah a box of Prophyrion is a much more appealing use of hobby budget afaic.
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Post by: deleted20250424
Some of the anecdotal replies are kind of silly.
GW has NEVER caused shortages by not producing enough before....right? RIIIIIIGHT?????
LOL
I get the whole "My area is booming vs. your area isn't" but to keep people interested, they need to keep stuff coming out.
Rehashing the same things over and over as new variants, isn't the same as NEW SHINEY PRODUCTS!
Small Supply Run = Fast Sellout ... no kidding?
And that's usually because people know the runs are small and the resale market is insane. I can set up a bot to grab everything at GW prices and then double that on EBay.
I'm just saying, they need to get more options on the table without beating the same 4 minis to death for 2 years by putting a different Arm or Carapace option on a sprue. Which (IMHO) should have been there in the first place.
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Post by: JWBS
TalonZahn wrote:Some of the anecdotal replies are kind of silly.
GW has NEVER caused shortages by not producing enough before....right? RIIIIIIGHT?????
LOL
As opposed to the detailed quantitative analysis that you posted to prove your non-anecdotal claim of "This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast. ".
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Post by: deleted20250424
JWBS wrote:As opposed to the detailed quantitative analysis that you posted to prove your non-anecdotal claim of "This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast. ".
I mean, you're not wrong, but yet I've at least provided historical behavior and what is actually going on as arguments to why it seems to be losing steam.
You've provided nothing but a weak jab at my ability to discuss.
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Post by: JWBS
TalonZahn wrote:JWBS wrote:As opposed to the detailed quantitative analysis that you posted to prove your non-anecdotal claim of "This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast. ".
I mean, you're not wrong, but yet I've at least provided historical behavior and what is actually going on as arguments to why it seems to be losing steam.
You've provided nothing but a weak jab at my ability to discuss.
Mate I was just pointing out that you're LoLing at peoples' anecdotes whilst attempting to justify your own. I'm not trying to prove anything and I'm not jabbing, and if my counter was weak I'll say that your initial shot was equally so. If you want to make it more serious then by all means, reiterate this example of historical behaviour that you've provided (I can't see it and I've just re-rad the last couple of posts you've made on the matter).
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Post by: deleted20250424
If you don't think that GW has a long history in under-producing product and selling out quickly, then you haven't been a GW Customer for very long.
(You quoted this part in one of your replies. I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you.)
This is their literal Standard Operating Procedure.
As for Me vs. Them on the anecdotal side, that comes down to local vs. global thoughts.
On the whole, this game looks to be losing steam; less topics, less coverage, less articles, generally less everything from all sources (Official or not).
Locally, your 5 guys might really like playing the same 5 Minis over and over. Congrats.
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Post by: gorgon
I see AT in a very opposite light. I think it's now finally getting more traction after a slow launch, with the main three Titans out and the additional weapons available (when they aren't sold out). It's starting to take off at my local store now.
I agree they need more Titans, but there's plenty of depth to the game with what's been released. And new Titans aren't going to be wildly different either. The Rapier scout titan will just be a little faster and lighter than the Warhound, with a slightly different weapons kit. The Warbringer will get a terminal between a Reaver and a Warlord, etc. It's really in the other stuff -- Legios, stratagems, missions, conditions, etc. -- where the game's replayability lies IMO. Well, that and pretty tactical gameplay. It's not going to be like 40K with a gakload of factions and crazy units with wild rules to keep things interesting.
You may be bored with it because it's just not the game for you. And that's okay. But that doesn't mean it's losing traction elsewhere.
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Post by: tneva82
TalonZahn wrote:JWBS wrote:As opposed to the detailed quantitative analysis that you posted to prove your non-anecdotal claim of "This whole line seems to be losing steam, and fast. ".
I mean, you're not wrong, but yet I've at least provided historical behavior and what is actually going on as arguments to why it seems to be losing steam.
You've provided nothing but a weak jab at my ability to discuss.
You claim it is losing steam...without actually providing any proof it's losing steam. I don't see any sign of that. More of GW struggling to provide supply since they have this thing called production shortage. They literally cannot produce enough sprues to keep up. Automatically Appended Next Post: TalonZahn wrote:If you don't think that GW has a long history in under-producing product and selling out quickly, then you haven't been a GW Customer for very long.
(You quoted this part in one of your replies. I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you.)
This is their literal Standard Operating Procedure.
As for Me vs. Them on the anecdotal side, that comes down to local vs. global thoughts.
On the whole, this game looks to be losing steam; less topics, less coverage, less articles, generally less everything from all sources (Official or not).
Locally, your 5 guys might really like playing the same 5 Minis over and over. Congrats.
Funny. I see new models being painted more and more. More players. More interest worldwide.
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Post by: JWBS
TalonZahn wrote:If you don't think that GW has a long history in under-producing product and selling out quickly, then you haven't been a GW Customer for very long.
(You quoted this part in one of your replies. I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you.)
This is their literal Standard Operating Procedure.
As for Me vs. Them on the anecdotal side, that comes down to local vs. global thoughts.
On the whole, this game looks to be losing steam; less topics, less coverage, less articles, generally less everything from all sources (Official or not).
Locally, your 5 guys might really like playing the same 5 Minis over and over. Congrats.
I was referring specifically to the bit about "This game is in a terminal tailspin and I know it" (Paraphrased). Thanks for the condescending tone though, very reasonable of you.
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Post by: deleted20250424
No worse than anything you posted...... Mate
Alas, here comes the dogpile.
Since you've all proved your stance at least as well as I have (you haven't), I'll go back to not posting.
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Post by: Chopstick
People who complaint about lack of coverage and slow production is probably not familiar with Specialist Game or realize that these are all side games lol. (AT already had the fastest production rate amongs all SG's games)
I'll say that be patient, or come back after a few years. Now that AT might get a collaboration with AI, that'd bring a whole new unit type into the game, and double the content release for the game.
They do need new competent rule writers though.
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Post by: JWBS
TalonZahn wrote:No worse than anything you posted...... Mate
Alas, here comes the dogpile.
Since you've all proved your stance at least as well as I have (you haven't), I'll go back to not posting.
"If you don't think that GW has a long history in under-producing product and selling out quickly, then you haven't been a GW Customer for very long.
(You quoted this part in one of your replies. I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you.)"
What on earth, Sir, would possibly make you believe that I was talking about stock levels? Go read my posts. I'm not sure how this could have happened. Perhaps I have somehow managed to wildly miscommunicate in the space of a handful of sentences. If that is the case I apologise.
/Edit - for clarity I'll say again - it's your claim that this is Dead Gaem that is befuddling me.
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Post by: deleted20250424
Didn't say it was dead. 
I said losing steam, and fast.
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Post by: Mymearan
TalonZahn wrote:
On the whole, this game looks to be losing steam; less topics, less coverage, less articles, generally less everything from all sources (Official or not).
[citation needed]
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Post by: zedmeister
I think this might help:
From this years Horus Heresy Open Day Titanicus Seminar:
Oh, and another tidbit from the Titanicus seminar. A number of the Transfer sheets, Command Slates and card packs are appearing as either No Longer Available or have disappeared completely from the online store. This isn't because they've stopped doing them, on the contrary. It's because there has been so much demand that they've massively oversold what they were expecting - Andy Hoare gave the comparison of having a projected years worth of stock and having it sell within a month. They're working on getting more in stock ASAP.
Sounds like an actual production shortage in that they massively underestimated demand.
From the Vigilus Weekender late last year:
I had a good chat about releases, future support and future plans. The Specialist Games team were very frank and open.
Games are divided into Tier One and Tier Two. Tier One games are games such as Blood Bowl and Necromunda that will continue to receive releases every three months - that could be models, supplements or gaming tools such as dice. These are the products that bring in the steady revenue and allow the games to grow and develop but also provide the profits to develop new games. However, that means the design team have to continue planning, sculpting and writing these products which reduces the time to develop new games. Currently, the design team is still small and time is divided between the three current specialists games of Bloodbowl, Necro. and AT.
So, how does this affect Battlefleet?
The original intention was to start Battlefleet this year. However... when the team sat down and planned out the resources it would take to get Battlefleet up and running including rules production, designing the classes of ship into CAD, designing counters and all the 'bits' of the game - they realised they would have to pull every member of the Specialist team off every project for the next year. This is due to the small size of the team and the resources they have. Clearly this is not possible if the other released games need continuing support to grow and develop with new releases. This means that currently Battlefleet has been shelved.
But...
Due to the success of all the Specialist Games (the Warlord and Reaver have been two of the most successful kits produced by GW this year) there are plans to increase the size of the Specialist Games team both in designers and rules writers. This will lead to an increased production capability that means that Battlefleet will eventually be worked on but not in the near future.
So, disappointing news but that can be tempered against the idea that the department is expanding and doing very well - possibly better than expected.
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Post by: Chopstick
New people will be working on AI, and I see it as a move to keep the schedule release on time (quarterly release) It won't be any faster than that. You just won't have to wait 8-9 months like that time BB hit a stop.
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Post by: Yodhrin
I can live with quarterly plastic releases just fine, so long as they don't start derping out as with Necromunda using up plastic production slots on oddities and extras rather than actual Knights & Titans.
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Post by: zedmeister
 Yodhrin wrote:I can live with quarterly plastic releases just fine, so long as they don't start derping out as with Necromunda using up plastic production slots on oddities and extras rather than actual Knights & Titans.
Yeah, Kal Jerico in plastic is a really odd decision. The Ambots I can understand as they're pretty much unverisal and can be used as conversion fodder. But Kal? Pretty niche. I suspect they didn't have time to produce a full set and Kal is a filler release
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Post by: Chopstick
Yodhrin wrote:I can live with quarterly plastic releases just fine, so long as they don't start derping out as with Necromunda using up plastic production slots on oddities and extras rather than actual Knights & Titans.
They've probably been pulling people from other games to make AT kit, AT require much bigger kits than the other.
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Post by: tneva82
In your opinion. Backed by zero facts. Yet people are buying and would buy more if GW would produce. Community is bustling with activity. Hardly sign of losing steam fast when activity is more of increasing.
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Post by: MarkNorfolk
Did anyone really think that this games was going to have more than a quarterly release schedule? a Faster release stream than blood bowl or Necromunda? I think it's getting the steam it was always going to have. slw and Steady wins the race these days rather than the old 90's approach of a huge splash and fast releases before 'running out of steam'.
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Post by: Chopstick
MarkNorfolk wrote:Did anyone really think that this games was going to have more than a quarterly release schedule? a Faster release stream than blood bowl or Necromunda? I think it's getting the steam it was always going to have. slw and Steady wins the race these days rather than the old 90's approach of a huge splash and fast releases before 'running out of steam'.
The mindset usually is "Game is dead until my favorite X models is released"
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Post by: SamusDrake
MarkNorfolk wrote:Did anyone really think that this games was going to have more than a quarterly release schedule? a Faster release stream than blood bowl or Necromunda? I think it's getting the steam it was always going to have. slw and Steady wins the race these days rather than the old 90's approach of a huge splash and fast releases before 'running out of steam'.
While the game does indeed have steam( the players themselves are providing that ), the game delivered a fart when a small bang was needed( the undersupported release of DOM ).
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Post by: Chopstick
SamusDrake wrote:MarkNorfolk wrote:Did anyone really think that this games was going to have more than a quarterly release schedule? a Faster release stream than blood bowl or Necromunda? I think it's getting the steam it was always going to have. slw and Steady wins the race these days rather than the old 90's approach of a huge splash and fast releases before 'running out of steam'.
While the game does indeed have steam( the players themselves are providing that ), the game delivered a fart when a small bang was needed( the undersupported release of DOM ).
Certainly disappointing for the Knight household, everything else for the Titan player was great tho, the stratagems and legio have some insane rule. I'd like to see actual Knight expansion : named character, special weapons, stratagem,household trait, Knightly Qualities not copy paste from one house to another. And the new Fortis Maniple make a full knight list look like joke.
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Post by: Mandragola
I think Molech is pretty disappointing as a knight expansion, but decent as a titan expansion. The expanded stratagem list is a good thing, for example. Failing to put the house-specific knight strats in the rulebook is absurd.
The quality of rules writing in AT is alarmingly bad. I do worry about this great game getting wrecked by the people who brought us phosphex quad launchers and all that nonsense.
Every time FW writes a rule for 30/40k the gods flip a coin and the community holds its breath. Will it be trash tier (usually) or game-breaking (too often)? So as much as I’d love to see more support for this awesome game I’d also like not to see terrible rules with no playtesting whatsoever.
For AT we seem to have an added complication of trying to figure out what the rules actually mean, often with little evidence to work from. The writers have chosen to diverge from the usual approach of trying to write clear rules that explain what happens in the game. Instead they have provided us with a more abstract selection of moods, colours and scents, from which we have to try and piece together a coherent explanation.
The rules are mostly good. But reading the books is like hearing about the rules second hand from someone who once watched a game being played.
That, or they don’t actually understand their own game. This would explain things like how Legio Vulcanum gets a “bonus” princeps seniors that everyone else gets too, but with a terrible penalty if either of them dies. Or how Atarus and Krytos get basically nothing at all.
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Post by: Nurglitch
Speaking of, has any 3rd party producers or Thingiverse makers made a Lucius pattern armour pack?
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Post by: SamusDrake
Well DOM itself is good enough but redundant for what its intended for; Knights. Obviously thats soon to be addressed but in the mean time we're left admiring the book than actually putting it to use.
But moving on from that well-beaten horse, I'm a little puzzled over the logic behind having at least two banners of the same type in a lance. Obviously there is the coordinated strike order requiring the same weapon across a lance-banner, but I don't see how this restriction actually contributes anything to the game itself.
Any thoughts?
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Post by: Yodhrin
Mandragola wrote:
Every time FW writes a rule for 30/ 40k the gods flip a coin and the community holds its breath. Will it be trash tier (usually) or game-breaking (too often)? So as much as I’d love to see more support for this awesome game I’d also like not to see terrible rules with no playtesting whatsoever.
People keep making remarks like this, as if the GW Studio are somehow paragons of writing clear, coherent, reasonable, fair rules.
FW occasionally produce a gamebreaking unit, GW have repeatedly produced gamebreaking armies(hell, 7th Edition WHFB Daemons were so bad they kicked off the downfall of the entire game system and setting). FW generally produce rules that track a bit below the point where you'd seriously consider the unit for competitive play, while with GW rules anywhere up to half the units in a given book will be virtually pointless.
FW are likely best used in casual, fun, narrative games for sure, but I maintain the same is true for GW material, people have just managed to convince themselves otherwise.
Anyway, as it stands, I've not seen anything really ludicrous in AT. It's not the most finely honed tournament-chess game ever made, but it's a GW product so who was really expecting that anyway? It's pretty balanced, and pretty good at testing the old noggin in terms of tactics - if that's not enough to get you on board that's a shame, as I'd argue you're missing out on something really special for the sake of an ideal that never has and never will exist from a GW system, but if it's not to your taste that's just the way it is.
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Post by: Irbis
Yodhrin wrote:Mandragola wrote:
Every time FW writes a rule for 30/ 40k the gods flip a coin and the community holds its breath. Will it be trash tier (usually) or game-breaking (too often)? So as much as I’d love to see more support for this awesome game I’d also like not to see terrible rules with no playtesting whatsoever.
People keep making remarks like this, as if the GW Studio are somehow paragons of writing clear, coherent, reasonable, fair rules.
Compared to FW (with exception of Phil Kelly, or the guy who made 6th/7th edition Tau to lesser degree), yeah, pretty much they are. Which is sad if you think about it.
I mean, just look at lists from big tournaments from last year. Every single one of them, loyalist or chaos, is stuffed full of pay to win FW gak, starting with Leviathans, through Fire Raptors, Deredeos or Contemptors right behind them, to all the broken IG and SM tanks on end. I am personally sick of this and would like to see GW dreads and tanks on table too, but competitive crowd somehow runs almost pure FW as main offensive component every single time without fail. I wonder why if both sides are just as bad, as you claim? 
Just look at Adepticon winner - Jim Vesal was playing nearly pure Chaos Daemons utilizing all he could wring from Chaos soup, and guess what the only CSM unit besides HQ was?
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/adepticon19-vesal2.jpg
Even though it's still nothing compared to "Ultramarine" list (where 950 out of 1500 points were 3x FW dreads/tanks) or "Iron Warriors" (1200 out of 1500 points all being Chaos Deredeos).
FW occasionally produce a gamebreaking unit, GW have repeatedly produced gamebreaking armies(hell, 7th Edition WHFB Daemons were so bad they kicked off the downfall of the entire game system and setting). FW generally produce rules that track a bit below the point where you'd seriously consider the unit for competitive play, while with GW rules anywhere up to half the units in a given book will be virtually pointless.
Ha ha ha. I take you never tried to play vs Custodes, Thousand Sons, or Mechanicum in HH? These three factions pretty much did what you say, killed 7th edition based HH with broken bs (such as generic, cheap custodes HQ effortlessly slaying primarchs left and right, Scoria and some random dude, Nowhere who did nothing in HH being able to take on two primarchs at once while costing less than either one, and that's just the tip of the iceberg and the other things they have are even worse than that). Now, after mass toning down, it's better, but still much worse than 8th edition is, and their 40K rules were left untouched despite being in bad need of similar rebalance...
FW are likely best used in casual, fun, narrative games for sure, but I maintain the same is true for GW material, people have just managed to convince themselves otherwise.
Yup, because 12 phosphex quad launchers or invisible Lorgar taking on the whole enemy army and sweeping it effortlessly all by himself sure sounds like casual fun, eh?
Fun fact - after hearing for years how broken primarch with invisibility is, FW doubled down and made Magnus not only with invisibility, but also (unlike Lorgar who pretty much had to resort to punch stuff) ability to vomit D strength at range by buckets. Nothing in 40K was ever that broken, with maybe 7th edition Eldar being a contender, which is pretty sad when you consider the fact 95% of HH is space marines and it takes some real serious effort to rival most broken army ever while working from common statline and point costs.
Let's face it, then only thing stopping broken FW garbage from being everything every single player ever runs is the fact most players have no idea how broken it is due to rules being hidden in obscure, unadvertised book. Even among these who do, price/availability is the real deal breaker, but once these are no longer a concern, like on tourney, "balanced" FW is somehow the only thing that is being fielded as nothing in GW range can compare especially with recent rapid balance changes eliminating outliers far less broken than that quickly.
FW apologists can repeat their fables of "balance" as often as they want, one look at competitive lists and tactica threads is enough to disprove them.
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Post by: gorgon
Good thing that AT isn’t 30K or 40K.
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Post by: Mandragola
Yodhrin wrote:Mandragola wrote:
Every time FW writes a rule for 30/ 40k the gods flip a coin and the community holds its breath. Will it be trash tier (usually) or game-breaking (too often)? So as much as I’d love to see more support for this awesome game I’d also like not to see terrible rules with no playtesting whatsoever.
People keep making remarks like this, as if the GW Studio are somehow paragons of writing clear, coherent, reasonable, fair rules.
FW occasionally produce a gamebreaking unit, GW have repeatedly produced gamebreaking armies(hell, 7th Edition WHFB Daemons were so bad they kicked off the downfall of the entire game system and setting). FW generally produce rules that track a bit below the point where you'd seriously consider the unit for competitive play, while with GW rules anywhere up to half the units in a given book will be virtually pointless.
FW are likely best used in casual, fun, narrative games for sure, but I maintain the same is true for GW material, people have just managed to convince themselves otherwise.
Anyway, as it stands, I've not seen anything really ludicrous in AT. It's not the most finely honed tournament-chess game ever made, but it's a GW product so who was really expecting that anyway? It's pretty balanced, and pretty good at testing the old noggin in terms of tactics - if that's not enough to get you on board that's a shame, as I'd argue you're missing out on something really special for the sake of an ideal that never has and never will exist from a GW system, but if it's not to your taste that's just the way it is.
I'm not asking for a perfect game. I'm hoping that a really good game isn't ruined. AT works now and I hope that it carries on being good. I'm worried about careless rules writing with no testing or proofing whatsoever. I've seen this make a mess of 30k (which the community keeps going with a whole new rulebook of house rules) and the complete nonsense of their rules for 40k when 8th first came out, which forced GW to apply massive points nerfs. Even so you still get weird stuff like a guy I know winning a major tournament with 3 tiger sharks after FW gave them a vast upgrade with no increase in points... which lasted until the next GW FAQ fixed them again.
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Post by: Peregrine
Mandragola wrote:and the complete nonsense of their rules for 40k when 8th first came out, which forced GW to apply massive points nerfs.
Kind of like how GW released complete nonsense and had to massively nerf it? Am I the only one who remembers the debacle of conscripts and commissars? Or GW-only space marine flyer spam that broke the game so hard GW had to change the core rules of the game to exclude an entire class of units from scoring objectives or counting as models on the table?
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Post by: schoon
The basic game mechanics are solid.
Is everything balanced - no.
Do I care that much - no.
Am I really in it for giant stompy robot models - yes.
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Post by: Mandragola
 schoon wrote:The basic game mechanics are solid.
Is everything balanced - no.
Do I care that much - no.
Am I really in it for giant stompy robot models - yes.
I completely agree. I think the game as released is great.
What I’m worried about is what happened to 30k. That was a game that was advertised to be about space marines fighting each other in mass combat. When betrayal came out you could more or less make the case that this was true. But even then, those big squads were horribly vulnerable to the tanks and lords of war that FW really loves to make.
Over time the problem has got worse and worse. New factions and models come out, with ever better ways of hosing MEQs off the board.
The unit that gets the most mentions is the phosphex quad launcher. A unit of 3 fires 12 blast markers per turn, all at ap3, with a “creeping death” rule letting the firer reposition them after scatter, and these templates then all remain in play. So of course it’s completely devastating to a marine army. It’s also completely ridiculous to actually do. For a 5 turn game you’d need 60 small blast templates. It takes a serious amount of time to resolve too. But at the same time they’ve also introduced whole armies, like admech, where virtually everyone (apart from some incredibly cheap troops) has some different variety of MEQ-hosing gun.
It’s obviously fair to complain that GW writes bad rules too. But they at least try to fix them. Those quad launchers have been around unchanged for years now.
To repeat: I’m not asking for a perfectly balanced chess game. AT is awesome right now. I just want the game not to be ruined, like I think 30k was.
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Post by: Chopstick
Well you can send email to them to express your opinions, I doubt the SG folks read dakka that often. Personally I'd email them everyday telling them to bring all the Gatling weapons back to their correct stat line, but i highly doubt that'd do anything.
Now can we back to news and rumour please.
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Post by: Zenithfleet
Mandragola wrote:
To repeat: I’m not asking for a perfectly balanced chess game. AT is awesome right now. I just want the game not to be ruined, like I think 30k was.
I share your concerns (although I have no experience with 30K or other Forgeworld rulesets apart from AT).
I gather that the rules designer for AT left after completing the core game. That worries me because FW could indeed end up in the position of 'not understanding their own game', as mentioned above. Maybe they have already. I don't know.
On the other hand, I think players of Specialist Games tend to be a bit less... WAAC? Do we still use that acronym?... and more willing to come to gentlemen's agreements that such-and-such a rule or supplement is vetoed because it's broken/silly/game-wrecking. Like everyone agreeing that only the campaign arbitrator should use Spyrers in classic Necromunda, and things like that. So instead of a new book ruining the game, I think (or at least hope) most players will just decide to pretend it doesn't exist.
Or maybe I'm being too optimistic. 
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Post by: Yodhrin
See, the problem here is in order to refute this heap of reeking nonsense, I would have to spend literally a full day typing out the list of all the hideously, laughably, gratuitously broken stuff GW has sharted out over the years, so congrats, I concede the point because you're defending a company with a record so ludicrous it's literally too much trouble to fully detail exactly how ludicrous.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
 Irbis wrote: Yodhrin wrote:Mandragola wrote:
Every time FW writes a rule for 30/ 40k the gods flip a coin and the community holds its breath. Will it be trash tier (usually) or game-breaking (too often)? So as much as I’d love to see more support for this awesome game I’d also like not to see terrible rules with no playtesting whatsoever.
People keep making remarks like this, as if the GW Studio are somehow paragons of writing clear, coherent, reasonable, fair rules.
Compared to FW (with exception of Phil Kelly, or the guy who made 6th/7th edition Tau to lesser degree), yeah, pretty much they are. Which is sad if you think about it.
I mean, just look at lists from big tournaments from last year. Every single one of them, loyalist or chaos, is stuffed full of pay to win FW gak, starting with Leviathans, through Fire Raptors, Deredeos or Contemptors right behind them, to all the broken IG and SM tanks on end. I am personally sick of this and would like to see GW dreads and tanks on table too, but competitive crowd somehow runs almost pure FW as main offensive component every single time without fail. I wonder why if both sides are just as bad, as you claim?
Some points to raise here. Most importantly point 1.
1. FW don't write the 40k rules for their products these days and haven't since the indexes converting to 8th ed. Everything thereafter was produced by Citadel (GW 'main'). So the current Fire Raptors, Deredeos and Contemptors et al are using rules created by 40k rules writers, not FW's writers. GW writes ALL rules for the models in 40k. FW writes ALL rules for the models in 30k. They are separate and distinct.
2. Phil 'writer of the greatest Ork Codex ever' Kelly no longer writes rules and has not in a considerable time (to my chagrin as he got the ork codex so well), he has, for a couple of years now, just been writing AOS background. That's what he does now. I'm sad about that, but he's apparently much happier writing background and not undergoing trial by internet every time a codex came out.
3. You reference 3 armies in 30k, 1ksons, Custards and Mechanicum. I have to ask, politely, if you are playing that game at the moment? Sons and Custards were certainly fairly borked when they were released and Inferno in general was a far less perfect book than it's predecessors, but both armies have undergone extensive rewriting in both FAQs and now with book 8's total revision of the Custards and introduction of all manner of psy-breaking equipment and squads to counter Sons edge, I'd be perfectly happy taking on either with my Alpha Legion. As to Mechanicum, they were initially feared on release several years ago because they were the first non-marine army and everyone with marines suddenly had to come up with something to counter them, but broken? Not in the slightest. Scoria is Primarch level (or he was until he was also nerfed) but I'd personally seen Horus, Magnus, Russ and Mortarion deathstar him into the ground (I've also seen him rangekilled on 2 occasions...). So your points on this game read as totally out of touch with the current game or someone who's skim-read.
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Post by: Mandragola
 MeanGreenStompa wrote:Some points to raise here. Most importantly point 1.
1. FW don't write the 40k rules for their products these days and haven't since the indexes converting to 8th ed. Everything thereafter was produced by Citadel (GW 'main'). So the current Fire Raptors, Deredeos and Contemptors et al are using rules created by 40k rules writers, not FW's writers. GW writes ALL rules for the models in 40k. FW writes ALL rules for the models in 30k. They are separate and distinct.
FW definitely wrote the indexes. I played a game against Jes Bickham at the first heat of the UKGT after 8th came out, before any of the points changes were made and we discussed it. You had stuff like alphabet soup and fall-back-and-shoot repressors on the top tables. We talked about FW writing rules seperately to the main GW studio and I got the very clear impression that JB wasn't too happy about having an external group he had no control over writing rules for "his" game.
Where FW went wrong in the indexes was in having all kinds of entirely novel special rules, often needlessly, with clearly no opportunity to test them (the sheer number of units made that impossible, even if they'd wanted to). So you get things like the troops inside a repressor (who all have melta guns) being able to fire after it falls back, unlike any other transport in 40k - even those that fly. They have only just, finally, had that ability removed. FW don't even make repressors any more by the way, so all that time it was pure sales for chinacast.
Since then we've seen GW modify the points costs of FW units, often radically, but actually not change their rules all that much. It must be a massive pain for GW writers to find they've got to try and balance a load of stuff they were lumbered with by FW, who then skipped off without fixing any of the damage.
It's interesting to hear that GW's taken over rules writing since then. I hope that's the case. I'm starting to see releases without downloadable 40k rules. Why is that necessary? Because GW don't trust FW not to mess it up, after all the times they've done it before. I take the same view.
Hearing that the person who wrote AT has left is worrying. They did a great job. I do now find myself reading the newer books and wondering if the writers understand what they're writing. For example the rules for knights are very unclear and written as if all knights only have one gun. The Legio rules are full of holes too. As an Astorum player I have pretty good rules, with the glaring exception of a warlord trait that allows me to effectively play the sabotage stratagem on my own Princeps Seniores any time I want (why on earth?!). Vulcanum's key abiltiy - being able to have a Seniores in each maniple, is something that everyone gets by default - only with an awful penalty if one of them dies. Atarus may as well have no trait really, since priority on turn 1 is pretty unimportant and a reroll isn't all that likely to help anyway (since it's a D10 vs a D6 roll, 40% of the time the D6 person can't win anyway). Do the writers understand this, and are they throwing this stuff in there to represent the fact the different legios weren't equally powerful, including nerfs as well as buffs, or is it just that they don't get it?
So far, none of this has really hurt the game. It's just resulted in quite a bit of confusion and endless repeats of the same rules queries on Facebook. But seeing the rules for this great game in the hands of FW's rules writers gives me the same feeling as if my actual titans were in the hands of a three year old. Nooo, put that down!
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Post by: Peregrine
Mandragola wrote:You had stuff like alphabet soup and fall-back-and-shoot repressors on the top tables.
Right next to stuff like morale-immune conscript blobs at 3ppm dumping obscene piles of FRFSRF dice at everything, space marine flyer armies that broke the game so hard that GW had to change the core rules to nerf them, etc. Don't pretend that FW units are the only things that have been a problem in 8th.
We talked about FW writing rules seperately to the main GW studio and I got the very clear impression that JB wasn't too happy about having an external group he had no control over writing rules for "his" game.
Welcome to working on a team project, once person doesn't have exclusive control. And given the raging dumpster fire of everything else about 8th edition not only should he not have exclusive control over the rules for "his" game, he should be fired and replaced with better game designers. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not anymore, they've been significantly nerfed.
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Post by: TheSecretSquig
I think I've come to the wrong thread. I thought this was a thread about Adeptus Titanicus, not 40k.................................
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Post by: xttz
 TheSecretSquig wrote:I think I've come to the wrong thread. I thought this was a thread about Adeptus Titanicus, not 40k.................................
Welcome to Dakka Dakka, where every thread topic is unofficially " A brief history of the many times GW have wronged me..."
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Post by: SamusDrake
Moving on...
Hope theres something in the "coming next week" tomorrow, even if it is just the dice...
...and now for the big question; what is the next titan going to be, and when will it be attacking? Is any maniple safe from this new menace?
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Post by: Nurglitch
There is that new artillery thingy that FW produced for 40k. Maybe it'll be the 30k AT version.
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Post by: Chopstick
SamusDrake wrote:Moving on... Hope theres something in the "coming next week" tomorrow, even if it is just the dice... ...and now for the big question; what is the next titan going to be, and when will it be attacking? Is any maniple safe from this new menace?
They've already talked about the bigger than warlord titan, and in the book they mention the Rapier scout titan. Personally I'd prefer the Rapier., maybe the bigger than Warlord one will have crap load of guns like a giant walker robot at its size would. And I hope they didn't make the Rapier a one gun walker, like a big sentinel, that's dumb.
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Post by: Yodhrin
TBH I'm not very excited for the "bigger than a Warlord" one. I don't mind stuff like the Warbringer or Rapier, and more Titans in the same general "weight class" as the existing ones would be fine, but I like there being this HUEG jump from "normal battle engines" to "that's a goddamn Imperator".
Putting something in between them kind of diminishes both IMO, leaving the Warlord as no longer the biggest and most powerful "normal" Titan, and narrowing the gap between non-Imperators and Imperators.
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Post by: ImAGeek
SamusDrake wrote:Moving on...
Hope theres something in the "coming next week" tomorrow, even if it is just the dice...
...and now for the big question; what is the next titan going to be, and when will it be attacking? Is any maniple safe from this new menace?
The coming next week went up on Friday for some reason, and it’s just Blood Bowl and Necromunda (seems like it would’ve been an ideal week for some Titanicus too but there we go).
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Post by: schoon
I think that the reveal of Acastus Knights, Reaver weapons, and scenery packs last weekend has "shot their load" of release rumors for a bit.
They've mentioned the Rapier on multiple occasions now, so I'd guess this will be their first "new" Titan, but I wouldn't expect it till the next book comes out.
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Post by: xttz
It's probably very obvious, but I think a lot of the prep work for the AT Warbringer would have been done alongside the 40k scale version and they're further along with it than they let on a few months ago. I reckon the greenlight to proceed with it in AT scale would have been given when they saw the game's opening sales figures last August/ September, and we'll see this new kit before the end of 2019.
My only worry is that any other new titan designs take longer to reach shelves because they want 28mm scale versions out first.
Chopstick wrote:
Personally I'd prefer the Rapier., maybe the bigger than Warlord one will have crap load of guns like a giant walker robot at its size would.
And I hope they didn't make the Rapier a one gun walker, like a big sentinel, that's dumb.
Me too. More light titan options would probably get me to pull the trigger on starting a new Legio Solaria maniple. IIRC the old Slaanesh had two layouts; one with a pair of light ranged weapons and another with one 'carapace' gun and two melee arms. They could even do a callback to both configurations by giving the Rapier 3 weapon slots that are all individually weaker than Warhound options.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Apart from what they already announced at WH-Fest, maybe the next release would be in August and in time for the game's first anniversary.
Personally, I'm happy with what we can expect over the next few weeks. If there is another long stretch there's always that second Melta-Reaver...
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Mandragola wrote: MeanGreenStompa wrote:Some points to raise here. Most importantly point 1.
1. FW don't write the 40k rules for their products these days and haven't since the indexes converting to 8th ed. Everything thereafter was produced by Citadel
FW definitely wrote the indexes.
I literally just said that.
If you're referring to James Hewett, he left prior to the release of Necromunda, 2 years back and had only sketched out very early skeleton for the game. I was unaware of another writer leaving since?
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Post by: Zenithfleet
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If you're referring to James Hewett, he left prior to the release of Necromunda, 2 years back and had only sketched out very early skeleton for the game. I was unaware of another writer leaving since?
I was the person who brought that up, and yep, I was referring to James Hewitt. I was under the impression that he was mostly responsible for designing the AT core rules. I could be wrong about that, of course.
He did an 'Ask Me Anything' on Reddit last year that might be interesting for anyone who hasn't seen it: https://www.reddit.com/r/adeptustitanicus/comments/96gbwu/i_designed_the_new_edition_of_adeptus_titanicus/
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Post by: Chopstick
New upgrade sprue....Bummer, but not surprised. And 3 melta, despite 1 melta already included in the main kit....okay.....
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Yeah, I would think that a sprue that would let you field 3 of the same type of ranged weapon would be a no-brainer.
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Post by: tneva82
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If you're referring to James Hewett, he left prior to the release of Necromunda, 2 years back and had only sketched out very early skeleton for the game. I was unaware of another writer leaving since?
The brief sketch being fully written rulebook.
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Post by: RobertDD
Chopstick wrote:New upgrade sprue....Bummer, but not surprised. And 3 melta, despite 1 melta already included in the main kit....okay.....
We also get 6 melee arms even if three were already included with the previous kit (there is no difference between melee weapons.
The real problem is that the arm part (part 26) isn’t included for the powerfists. I will need to source extras of those. Crap!
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Post by: Chopstick
Look like you magnetized the wrong part of the arms, oops.
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Post by: JonWebb
Not mind blowing but at least we get both sides of power fists so I can build my errants properly
Really hard to make out what each face is. I’m hoping for the old style paladin (the goofy looking droopy mouth one) but I don’t think it’s on there.
Going to need one of these at least, or three if the paladin head is on there.
On second look, it’s the ad mech skull, the crown head and the same head less the crown isn’t it? :(
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Nice sprue, although having nine close combat weapons(including those already in the kit) for every three Knights seems a bit odd IMO. I would have preferred one more of each gun in personally.
With the upcoming 40k Chaos Knights having at least one new weapon for the Questoris frame and the Preceptors main gun being absent from the game. I wonder if there might be another sprue(and updated rules) in the future? Or maybe they could put them in a "Mechanicum" Knight kit?
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Post by: schoon
Hmmm, I'm finding that sprue a bit disappointing.
...which simply means I will kitbash what I need - so it's sort of a win-win.
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Post by: zedmeister
Thanks to LetsYouDown on B&C:
-The Traitor & Loyalist Stratagem cards are going to include the Legio-specific Stratagems from the Legio rules sections 26 cards in each deck
-Tempestus is in the Traitor deck, as is proper msn-wink.gif )
-Each deck seems to contain some neutral stratagems (Traitor has the Titan-hunting Infantry) so if you really like using the cards it may be worth grabbing a pack of each?
-each character terminal has a special rule at the top and a bit of history on the back, as well as which Legio the particular Titan belongs to
-Andy read off some rules from them:
-Ibn Faruq (spelling may be way off), Reaver of Fureans, which comes with the Hunting Auspex upgrade for free and a special rule called Kingslayer, which gives it +2 on armour rolls vs Titans of scale 10 or higher
-Vestiti Ferrus, Reaver of Vulpa, has Iron-Clad: when this Titan suffers a devastating hit, roll a D6. On a 6 the Titan loses 1 structure point instead of 2
-Mantellan Foreman (?) of Tempestus, has Solitary Hunter (cannot be part of a Squadron, but when issued First Fire Orders it can fire all weapons… so this is 100% the Warhound that you want to air drop msn-wink.gif )
-Hammer of Tyrants, Warlord of Krytos (skipped reading rule)
-Penumbral Reaper, Warlord of Mortis, has special rule Towering Exemplar and a fixed load-out that includes an Arioch Claw, Lasblasters, and Sunfury
-Lucius Praetorian, a Reaver of Astorum, special rule is Will to Survive: +1 to all Repair Rolls made by this Titan
-Dawn of Enlightenment, Reaver of Defensor, special rule is Beseech the Emperor: forgo movement in the movement phase but count it as an activation to restore void shield by D3 or 1 if they were collapsed. Can't be used if you have VSG Burn-out
-Ignis Ferrus, Warlord of Atarus, special rule represents an advanced reactor designed to contain the especially intense fury of the Titan's machine spirit (they didn't name it): advance the reactor marker once when you roll 2 on the reactor dice, but if you get an AMS it's always Wrathful
-Bellator Magno, Warlord of Gryphonicus, special rule is Martial Pride: may push the reactor in the combat phase to re-roll any hit rolls of a single weapon (Andy also mentioned Gryphonicus is at Terra if that’s of interest to anyone)
-Auracundis, Reaver of IGNATUM!!! and special rule is Hear my Fury: forgo movement in move phase (still counts as activation) to pick an enemy Titan w/in 18". The target must make a command check, and if they fail their order is removed. This Titan was included especially for one of the Titan Owners Club/House Taranis Club guys that regularly shows up at WHW. He has a Titan that he’s rigged to play audio and.. well I’ll let him say it (from the chat): “yeah after sounding the warhorn as I put my phone back into my pocket I hit my iTunes and started playing Erasure Give a little respect... it was silent for a moment then everyone started singing along. Lol” Everything they’re showing is available in the next month to 6 weeks “or something like that”
-Imperial Knight Terminals (Cerastus and Questoris) are being reprinted but Andy said it could be August before we see them, but the Acastus terminals are releasing alongside the kit
-Someone asked about the Lucius pattern head/shields or a possible plastic Lucius armor set, to which Andy replied possibly the head. He said that if they do a full Lucius pattern, he doesn’t want to just do it as upgrade kits but rather as an entirely new kit because it’s structurally very different. But “if we’re making a Lucius pattern Warlord, then we’re not making something else”
-There was a question on rescaling between 40k and AT using CAD. Andy said it makes it easier, but it's still a complex process. The 28mm Warlord took Daren Parrwood about a year. For AT, Chris Drew was designing the AT Warlord kit for resin, but when Blood Bowl blew up they switched it to plastic and they had to start redesigning again. It's down to around 6 weeks in the design phase, before it goes to production and steel cutting of tools. The design is actually the shortest part of the process.
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Post by: Binabik15
Are those power-mittens a good fit on (C)SM or Primaris? Or regular humans?
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Post by: Chopstick
 Binabik15 wrote:Are those power-mittens a good fit on (C) SM or Primaris? Or regular humans?
They would look fine, Knight is roughly Termie size, and since the fist are mechanical they don't have to be anatomically correct on the model.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Chopstick, thanks for the sprue snap.
Only question now is how the sprue will affect the pricing of the Questoris pack, as they said it would be included going forward...
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Post by: beast_gts
SamusDrake wrote:Only question now is how the sprue will affect the pricing of the Questoris pack, as they said it would be included going forward...
That's what I'm worried about - having unbuilt Knights and wanting more...
I seem to remember the 40k Tzaangors were only a few quid more that the AoS ones and included 2 upgrade sprues (which are £8 each separately) before they were dropped. Not sure what else there is to compare against.
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Post by: SamusDrake
beast_gts wrote:SamusDrake wrote:Only question now is how the sprue will affect the pricing of the Questoris pack, as they said it would be included going forward...
That's what I'm worried about - having unbuilt Knights and wanting more...
I seem to remember the 40k Tzaangors were only a few quid more that the AoS ones and included 2 upgrade sprues (which are £8 each separately) before they were dropped. Not sure what else there is to compare against.
Personally, I always felt the Questoris and Cerastus were a bit pricey for £20 and have only bought them "indie-with-discount" at £16. Although I'm thinking £22.50, I hope deep down they keep the price as it is.
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Post by: Chopstick
I'll be fine with 35USD or 40. These are mostly cosmetic and fancy item for your scion. Missile pod and melta gun are way overpriced. I'd actually prefer they made a few tiny emblems and icon to decorate the knight armor. in place of some bits on the spue.
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Post by: Togusa
 xttz wrote: TheSecretSquig wrote:I think I've come to the wrong thread. I thought this was a thread about Adeptus Titanicus, not 40k.................................
Welcome to Dakka Dakka, where every thread topic is unofficially " A brief history of the many times GW have wronged me..."
Like battered partners, why do they keep coming back for more then?
Anyways, so what is the latest news? Can we expect any new titans this summer, or better yet, the FW guns to stay in stock for longer than 39 minutes?
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Post by: SamusDrake
 Togusa wrote:
Anyways, so what is the latest news? Can we expect any new titans this summer, or better yet, the FW guns to stay in stock for longer than 39 minutes?
Nothing yet on new Titans but I'm sure the resin weapons will be restocked soon.
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Post by: SirDonlad
RobertDD wrote:Chopstick wrote:New upgrade sprue....Bummer, but not surprised. And 3 melta, despite 1 melta already included in the main kit....okay.....
We also get 6 melee arms even if three were already included with the previous kit (there is no difference between melee weapons.
The real problem is that the arm part (part 26) isn’t included for the powerfists. I will need to source extras of those. Crap!
We must be getting a second sprue along with this one because the missile pods have a front, rear and top plate, but no base plate with a tiny peg on it to locate to the corresponding hole on the carapace like it should..
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Post by: Yodhrin
 SirDonlad wrote:RobertDD wrote:Chopstick wrote:New upgrade sprue....Bummer, but not surprised. And 3 melta, despite 1 melta already included in the main kit....okay.....
We also get 6 melee arms even if three were already included with the previous kit (there is no difference between melee weapons.
The real problem is that the arm part (part 26) isn’t included for the powerfists. I will need to source extras of those. Crap!
We must be getting a second sprue along with this one because the missile pods have a front, rear and top plate, but no base plate with a tiny peg on it to locate to the corresponding hole on the carapace like it should..
Don't think so. Part 42 is the main body, part 43 is the front, part 44 is the back, by the look of it. We're just looking at the top side of 42.
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Post by: schoon
Yup, Yodhrin has that right.
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Post by: beast_gts
beast_gts wrote:Did anyone there get a look at what symbol is on the Loyalist dice?
Answering my own question -
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Post by: SamusDrake
Very nice looking dice, beast_gts.
I'll probably go for Loyalist as its brighter in contrast to the ruleset dice, but the Traitor dice looks really cool!
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Post by: schoon
SamusDrake wrote:I'll probably go for Loyalist as its brighter in contrast to the ruleset dice, but the Traitor dice looks really cool!
You know you want both sets!
They had a reasonable idea that you can "mix" the different sets to make it easier to identify dice types with different colors.
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Post by: SamusDrake
schoon wrote:SamusDrake wrote:I'll probably go for Loyalist as its brighter in contrast to the ruleset dice, but the Traitor dice looks really cool!
You know you want both sets!
They had a reasonable idea that you can "mix" the different sets to make it easier to identify dice types with different colors.
Yes! I do indeed!
I shall sneak in the Traitor set on the order after the next one...one day, they shall be MINE!!! 
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Post by: CragHack
Those dice! If not for Titanicus, I will definitely buy a set for regular gaming as well. Why can’t main GW studio make dice like these: ones on ones, symbol on 6, perfect contrast...
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Post by: SamusDrake
If even just those dice sets were "Coming Soon..." next week, that would be something...
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Post by: xttz
I guess we'll see those dice alongside the Acastus kit & new terminal cards in late June / early July.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Fingers crossed we also get the Reaver Carapace Weapons.
For me, they’re not in-game essentials, but I’m still one for having a full suite to choose from.
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Post by: Irbis
 CragHack wrote:Why can’t main GW studio make dice like these: ones on ones, symbol on 6
Because these are terrible, especially if you want fair rolling dice? Having similar sized icons on all sides is the way to go, unless you want to cheat, then by all means, grab one with tiny 1 to have that side be heavier so you can roll it as rarely as possible.
Even from gaming perspective, there are lots of reroll 1 (or misses) abilities in the game these days so being able to instantly see which ones you should re-roll saves time (and again, cuts down on cheating as opponent can see it as well) so I don't get the fixation on having it backwards...
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Post by: SamusDrake
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Fingers crossed we also get the Reaver Carapace Weapons.
For me, they’re not in-game essentials, but I’m still one for having a full suite to choose from.
Amen to that. Hopefully they will come as a single purchase... Automatically Appended Next Post: xttz wrote:I guess we'll see those dice alongside the Acastus kit & new terminal cards in late June / early July.
OMG, we'll be ancient by then! Epic will have been released!
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Post by: zedmeister
Irbis wrote: CragHack wrote:Why can’t main GW studio make dice like these: ones on ones, symbol on 6
Because these are terrible, especially if you want fair rolling dice? Having similar sized icons on all sides is the way to go, unless you want to cheat, then by all means, grab one with tiny 1 to have that side be heavier so you can roll it as rarely as possible. Even from gaming perspective, there are lots of reroll 1 (or misses) abilities in the game these days so being able to instantly see which ones you should re-roll saves time (and again, cuts down on cheating as opponent can see it as well) so I don't get the fixation on having it backwards...
There's a lot of truth in what you say. Though, I'd just like to point out that having a tiny '1' would be more likely to have it show up. I refer you to this Dakka article.
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Post by: SamusDrake
One needs to be violent in their throwing of dice for good results...
I throw my dice against the wall. I throw my dice at the floor. I throw them against the body of a Varsity Cheerleader. Throw them at the hood of a car! Throw them against the 1981 Harley Davison! The Harley howls in pain, the Dice howls in heat!
And thats when the owner punches me in the face for throwing dice at his classic and rather expensive bike. Which is fair play, but the point is that by throwing dice in this fashion I don't get spammed by 1s.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Did the dice howl in hate (chaos edition only)?
Seriously though I’d have thought the cheerleader would have slapped you long before you got to the bike…
But yeah, looking at turning some hab sector buildings into dice towers.
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Post by: SamusDrake
 Mr_Rose wrote:Did the dice howl in hate (chaos edition only)?
Seriously though I’d have thought the cheerleader would have slapped you long before you got to the bike…
But yeah, looking at turning some hab sector buildings into dice towers.
Aye, the lady does slap hard...
Building dice towers! Thats a brilliant idea.
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Post by: Plant
Forge world Titan weapons are both back in stock if anyone's waiting for them.
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Post by: zedmeister
 Plant wrote:Forge world Titan weapons are both back in stock if anyone's waiting for them.
And gone...
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Post by: SamusDrake
The Quake cannon is still in stock.
I noticed this was the case before. The Gatling Blaster just seems to be in much greater demand.
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Post by: gorgon
At least they're selling a few Warlord weapons here and there to you guys. I think both have been sold out in the US for weeks now.
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Post by: CorwinB
Plant wrote:Forge world Titan weapons are both back in stock if anyone's waiting for them.
Managed to get another Quake cannon, thanks a lot for the tip !
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Post by: Zenithfleet
zedmeister wrote: Irbis wrote: CragHack wrote:Why can’t main GW studio make dice like these: ones on ones, symbol on 6
Because these are terrible, especially if you want fair rolling dice? Having similar sized icons on all sides is the way to go, unless you want to cheat, then by all means, grab one with tiny 1 to have that side be heavier so you can roll it as rarely as possible.
Even from gaming perspective, there are lots of reroll 1 (or misses) abilities in the game these days so being able to instantly see which ones you should re-roll saves time (and again, cuts down on cheating as opponent can see it as well) so I don't get the fixation on having it backwards...
There's a lot of truth in what you say. Though, I'd just like to point out that having a tiny '1' would be more likely to have it show up. I refer you to this Dakka article.
I confess myself baffled by the idea that putting the symbol on 1 saves time.
A single pip looks so lonely and different to everything else (even two pips) that it's instantly obvious anyway... isn't it?
Whereas a 6 and a 5 could be mixed up if you're in a hurry.
But maybe I'm odd. Wait, that's not a maybe.  I guess I never grew out of the stubborn five-year-old belief that Sixes are Special (and harder to roll than anything else).
Actually  I prefer dice that don't have any special symbols at all. Good old boxcars and snake eyes are good enough for me.
I do take the point about unfairly weighted dice, though.
The point is moot anyway--I'll keep using the standard AT numbered dice, and use the new dice for the other ones (orders, reactor, etc). The different colour should help them stand out on the table. I wasn't going to bother with luxury bling dice, but in the last few games we kept mixing up the amber ones and not realising until it was too late. "Oh dear, it seems my Gatling Blaster has rolled three 6s, a radiation symbol and a wrench. I suppose you're dead, glowing in the dark and miraculously repaired?"
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a hail of explosive shells.
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Post by: tneva82
SamusDrake wrote:The Quake cannon is still in stock.
I noticed this was the case before. The Gatling Blaster just seems to be in much greater demand.
Which makes sense. Quake cannon, while good weapon, is bit niche that you don't want to have multiples. For example warlord with twin quake cannon is not gtetting full effect of 2nd gun. Gatling blaster you can double up in full.
Also gatling blaster looks cool
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Post by: schoon
Thanks for sharing that.
Agree that the release order of the minis could have been more logical!
Now if we can just get a new Titan or two...
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Post by: Chopstick
If it took them 1 year to shrink the Warlord, we can only hope they have more people and machine working to speed up the proccess
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Post by: SamusDrake
James seems very passionate about the games he makes, and his thoughts on Titanicus are interesting.
Despite the naysaying on launch( it was understandable ) the Titanicus' product range grew decently from August through to January and won over its intended audience. Its just a shame that the last few months have been crap.
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Post by: gorgon
I kinda get what you're saying, although the pause has given me some time to work on my terrain and other little related projects. Ideally we'd have a new titan or something similarly impactful arriving soon. But I understand that they may not have greenlit work on additional Titans until they got through the launch and were able to assess demand. And ultimately AT is part of the SG group, so it's not going to have a monthly release cycle like the core games. I'll just continue to be patient and wait for the greatest Legio (Audax) to be covered and for more scout Titans to arrive.
James' comment about design vs. writing is on point. I love the ruleset, but the overly narrative rulebook can be frustrating at times. And I don't usually mind a conversational rulebook.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Gorgon, you just love your Ember Wolves! Speaking of which, have we seen them in the project thread? I'll have to flick through it again...
Yeah, that is the positive of a long delay, in that one can catch up on painting and actually save up money for when it does happen. There is the Dice to look forward to, afterall!
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Post by: tneva82
gorgon wrote:I kinda get what you're saying, although the pause has given me some time to work on my terrain and other little related projects. Ideally we'd have a new titan or something similarly impactful arriving soon. But I understand that they may not have greenlit work on additional Titans until they got through the launch and were able to assess demand. And ultimately AT is part of the SG group, so it's not going to have a monthly release cycle like the core games. I'll just continue to be patient and wait for the greatest Legio (Audax) to be covered and for more scout Titans to arrive.
James' comment about design vs. writing is on point. I love the ruleset, but the overly narrative rulebook can be frustrating at times. And I don't usually mind a conversational rulebook.
Yeah that's likely the factor. They didn't likely get green light for that many new kits to begin with before even having any idea does it sell. Imagine them sitting now with lots of mid-design stuff that costs already money and game that flopped? With lead times being what they are anything green lit after game launch would be coming more likely end of year earliest. Especially plastic.
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Post by: gorgon
SamusDrake wrote:Gorgon, you just love your Ember Wolves! Speaking of which, have we seen them in the project thread? I'll have to flick through it again...
Yeah, that is the positive of a long delay, in that one can catch up on painting and actually save up money for when it does happen. There is the Dice to look forward to, afterall!
EMBER WOLVES!  
I've had my mind set on Audax since AT was announced. Loved those guys after reading Betrayer. And I also accepted that it'd likely mean playing the game on hard mode, possibly even after I got Legio rules. I was a little anxious for the Lupercal maniple, but since then I've been in a shockingly un-Khornate state of patience. Of course, I'm still hoping that the studio's recent and revealing comment about Audax being limited to SCOUT titans and not just Warhounds means that plans are underway for both Audax and the Rapier Titan.
Regarding pics, I completed six Warhounds a few months back. I just keep forgetting to take some nice pics of them. I'll try to do that soon. I'll also post some terrain pics when they're ready.
Oh...about dice, after exactly one game I purchased a block of Chessex Scarab Scarlet 16mm dice, which look pretty similar to the new Traitor dice. I use those for regular dice rolls and the gold special dice from the GME set for those rolls.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Good thing you bring that up as I seem to recall that was mentioned in the DOM video preview. Was confused when I couldn't find it in the actual book.
That might be a big hint as to the next expansion if Audax is involved. Okay, lets have a look( Brings forth the holy rulebook from the shelf )...something about Isstvan III? A quick google and they have a character called "Ember Queen" which took part in the Shadow Crusade...hmmm.
An Ursus Claw resin kit would be an ideal "sooner-rather-than-later" product as lets face it - who doesn't have at least two warpups in their collection? They came with all their standard weapons out of the box and when they finally release the Reaver carapace weapons, the Hound fans will want something in resin too. A pdf download or White Dwarf template would solve the missing weapon card problem.
Maybe something this side of Christmas, if we're lucky...
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Post by: schoon
Concerning some of the gaps in the release schedule, I suspect that much like the initial release, they've decided to do more in plastic in the future.
...which has a far greater lead time than resin.
As odd as it may sound, the popularity of the game could be causing the delay.
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Post by: Chopstick
Titans are all big kit. So of course it's gonna be slow. They had to make Titan and Knight, terrain at the same time to fill in the release, basically double, tripple the production rate compare to other specialist games.
We have Reaver weapon frame, Knight Lancer, new terrain and now Knight upgrade, and Acastus. That's well more than both Blood Bowl and Necromunda combined release in 2019 so far.
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Post by: Eumerin
Hewitt's tweet thread makes me even more convinced that they need to release a minimum-size Venator Maniple starter - one Reaver, two Warhounds, and a rulebook. Without a discount, that checks in at less than $200US.
It's the least expensive all-titan maniple so that players can get a feel for the game while commanding multiple titans (which is the point of the game), and also become familiar with the maniple rules right when they first start playing. And the half-strength Venator is a good starting point because you have two options for expanding your collection. You can go inexpensive and finish filling out the Venator Maniple with two more Warhounds. Or you can put down the cash for a brand new Warlord to trade up to a mid-strength Axiom Maniple, adding the second Reaver to fill it out either at the same time, or a little later.
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Post by: Chopstick
Real starter set need to use the whole ruleset, not just the book. The downsize is people won't want to buy multiple starter set like this because they will get multiple rule books/ rule set which might not be very useful. And the box would be quite big I reckon.
1 Reaver with all weapons and 2 warhound at about 20-30US$ discount would be good enough.
I also hope to see a full weapon Reaver and Warlord reapack..
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Post by: Eumerin
Chopstick wrote:Real starter set need to use the whole ruleset, not just the book. The downsize is people won't want to buy multiple starter set like this because they will get multiple rule books/ rule set which might not be very useful. And the box would be quite big I reckon.
1 Reaver with all weapons and 2 warhound at about 20-30US$ discount would be good enough.
By "rulebook", I meant the entire box. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.
But I think the rules box should be bundled with such a set-up. Without the rules - and the associated price increase - a discounted box merely becomes a way for people to acquire the Reaver and Warhound more cheaply.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Being a penny-pincher at heart I would still recommend the Titan Battlegroup boxset as a starter set.
It might still seem expensive from a beginners perspective, but you do get the full experience of the game as you can try out each of the standard titan types. And lets face it, you do get the hounds for free, more than covering the cost of a copy of the ruleset. If one can make their own scenery then they can even host a small 2-player game( although the advantage does go to the player with the warlord ).
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Post by: Zenithfleet
gorgon wrote:I kinda get what you're saying, although the pause has given me some time to work on my terrain and other little related projects. Ideally we'd have a new titan or something similarly impactful arriving soon. But I understand that they may not have greenlit work on additional Titans until they got through the launch and were able to assess demand. And ultimately AT is part of the SG group, so it's not going to have a monthly release cycle like the core games. I'll just continue to be patient and wait for the greatest Legio (Audax) to be covered and for more scout Titans to arrive.
I'm grateful for the slow release schedule, but that's partly because I'm in Australia, so I either need a) time to save up cash and brave the crazy GW prices or b) wait for more reasonably priced Titans to arrive on the slow boat.
(Actually, the GW prices even in Oz aren't too bad when you realise that one model can make up 250-400 pts of your army. It's really only the Warlord's local price point that I find redonkulous.)
gorgon wrote:James' comment about design vs. writing is on point. I love the ruleset, but the overly narrative rulebook can be frustrating at times. And I don't usually mind a conversational rulebook.
This has always been the style of GW (not sure about FW) rulebooks, though, hasn't it? They're written to be read from start to finish by a player who knows nothing about the game. And they're always stopping to say 'this represents such-and-such', or 'the intent of this rule is to prevent players from abusing blah- de-blah'. Which makes them infuriating when you're trying to look something up in the middle of a game. (I see James ran into this problem with Silver Tower.)
Fantasy Flight Games's rulebooks have the opposite problem--they're written in a no-nonsense, bullet-pointed, 'just the roolz' way that makes them pretty decent for looking things up... but they rarely pause to explain the intent of a rule, leaving you to scratch your head and figure it out from context.
I agree 100% with James that the Reaver should have been released first, with the Warlord later. I've sort of experienced the 'big battleship upgrade' effect myself. I've played most of my games with only Reavers and Warhounds, because I couldn't afford a WL. Just recently I had my first game versus a Warlord and it scared the heck of of me with its size and power. I doubt I'd have had the same experience if I'd started with Warlords as the standard.
For me (resident AT fluff whinger), the choice quote from James's Twitter feed is this:
James Hewitt wrote:
I did the rules (and most of the colour text boxouts), team manager Andy [Hoare] did the background section at the front and oversaw the project, and sculpting maestro Chris debigulated all the titans and designed the terrain kit and game components.
That confirms a long-standing suspicion I've had that Andy H wrote the fluff sections. I'm... uh... not really a fan of his writing style, and have felt that way since the stuff he did for Lustria back in 6th ed WFB--although back then it was hard to tell what was Andy and what was Mat Ward.
From a technical standpoint, my beef is that Andy tends to use endless run-on sentences full of commas. This is more of a problem than it might seem. Seriously, take a look at any random section of the fluff bits in the AT books. (It's true of the Titan descriptions on the colour-scheme pages too, which may or may not be by Andy, so it's not necessarily a problem limited to him.) Practically every sentence goes: 'blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah.' Over and over again. It deadens the writing and makes it dull to read.
A mix of short and long sentences, though? That holds your attention. Many of the older-school GW writers, such as Andy C, Jervis, Rick and so on either knew this instinctively or had it drummed into them (possibly by Bill King). Someone get this man a bag of full stops!
There are other issues, like the general tone of the fluff and the lack of character hooks or human interest so we care about the giant robobot fights, but I've muttered about those plenty of times before. Apparently I have to go read Black Library books to get that sort of thing. *shudder*
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Post by: schoon
Though strictly not AT18 related, Black Library is releasing On Wings of Blood in August, so it's a safe bet that we'll see Aeronautica Imperialis in roughly the same timeframe.
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Post by: SamusDrake
schoon wrote:Though strictly not AT18 related, Black Library is releasing On Wings of Blood in August, so it's a safe bet that we'll see Aeronautica Imperialis in roughly the same timeframe.
Seems reasonable to follow up Titanicus a year on. Maybe August 2020 we'll get a good ol'fashioned tank game!
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Post by: alexkon3
I have read some time ago that they plan to release Titanicus Books alá the Blackbooks. Has anyone more info on that or was that a fluke? I was a bit dissapointed to look at Titandeath after hearing this and its just a small book with like 8 legions and miniscule lore for the biggest Titan battle in history. I really want freaking big books for this. Especially if we get Imperator and Warmongers some time in the future and we'll get big fat artwork of them
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Post by: SamusDrake
I think something was mentioned, but I'd say thats further down the road. Probably when the game has more products in its range...
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Post by: ImAGeek
It was mentioned, but the fact that we’ve had 2 books not in that format (three if you include the rulebook) makes me think they probably changed their minds on that.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Zenithfleet wrote:
That confirms a long-standing suspicion I've had that Andy H wrote the fluff sections. I'm... uh... not really a fan of his writing style, and have felt that way since the stuff he did for Lustria back in 6th ed WFB--although back then it was hard to tell what was Andy and what was Mat Ward.
From a technical standpoint, my beef is that Andy tends to use endless run-on sentences full of commas. This is more of a problem than it might seem. Seriously, take a look at any random section of the fluff bits in the AT books. (It's true of the Titan descriptions on the colour-scheme pages too, which may or may not be by Andy, so it's not necessarily a problem limited to him.) Practically every sentence goes: 'blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah.' Over and over again. It deadens the writing and makes it dull to read.
A mix of short and long sentences, though? That holds your attention. Many of the older-school GW writers, such as Andy C, Jervis, Rick and so on either knew this instinctively or had it drummed into them (possibly by Bill King). Someone get this man a bag of full stops!
It's very in keeping with the Forge World fluff writing for both Horus Heresy and Imperial Armour, IA 13 was all Andy Hoare's work and the thing is a monument to how IA books should be written. As to the run on sentence, the king of that was Alan Bligh, go ahead and criticize him for it, you'll have at least a hundred 30k players willing to pay airfare to hunt you down and do unpleasant things to you about it... AT was written to be a comfortable cousin to, and verymuch in the style of, Horus Heresy.
And criticizing someone's writing whilst heaping praise on JJ... ye gods. That guy is a lovely chap, but terrible meandering waffler when it comes to holding a paragraph together.
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Post by: Chopstick
Imperial Armor have the vehicle classification with stat like speed and ammunition count, those were good. Too bad they don't do that anymore. Also some of the vehicle in Imperial Armor get a cop-out "top secret" with no stat. That was lazy.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Pfft, I've read Iain M Banks' novels. Run-on sentences in Forge World books hold no fear. There's a page in The Algebraist that is fully taken up by only two sentences. Automatically Appended Next Post: Chopstick wrote:Imperial Armor have the vehicle classification with stat like speed and ammunition count, those were good. Too bad they don't do that anymore. Also some of the vehicle in Imperial Armor get a cop-out "top secret" with no stat. That was lazy.
Not really - it was alien vehicles, daemon engines and the like that had data missing or redacted. After all, that's precisely the things that Imperial agents won't know, or the Inquisition doesn't want you to know. 
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Post by: ImAGeek
 AndrewGPaul wrote:They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.
If you’re boiling it down to that level, then no; the HH books are background, then campaign/scenarios, then army lists
I think they were mentioned at one point to be like the HH black books - big format, faux leather bound, metal corners etc. Of course, that would have come with the £80 price tag, I assume that was deemed not viable.
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Post by: frankr
 ImAGeek wrote: AndrewGPaul wrote:They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.
If you’re boiling it down to that level, then no; the HH books are background, then campaign/scenarios, then army lists
I think they were mentioned at one point to be like the HH black books - big format, faux leather bound, metal corners etc. Of course, that would have come with the £80 price tag, I assume that was deemed not viable.
Specialist Games only said the books would be stylistically similar to the black books not that they would be black books. This is another case of the community hearing what we wanted to hear rather than what Andy Hoare was actually saying. Having said that; Mr Hoare should know, by now, to be more precise about how he says things to avoid this kind of confusion.
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Post by: JWBS
frankr wrote: ImAGeek wrote: AndrewGPaul wrote:They are in the same format as the Horus Heresy books, aren't they? the visual design is the same, but in blue rather than red, there's a background section first, then army lists/faction rules then a campaign/scenarios section. They're just thinner, that's all.
If you’re boiling it down to that level, then no; the HH books are background, then campaign/scenarios, then army lists
I think they were mentioned at one point to be like the HH black books - big format, faux leather bound, metal corners etc. Of course, that would have come with the £80 price tag, I assume that was deemed not viable.
Specialist Games only said the books would be stylistically similar to the black books not that they would be black books. This is another case of the community hearing what we wanted to hear rather than what Andy Hoare was actually saying. Having said that; Mr Hoare should know, by now, to be more precise about how he says things to avoid this kind of confusion.
So instead of "Stylistically similar to black books" he should have said "Stylistically similar to black books, but not exactly the same as black books, just kind of akin to black books". If so I can imagine that this sort of precision over every utterance would soon become tedious.
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Post by: schoon
My guess would that after about 4-6 expansion books, we'll see a second edition of the main rules.
More of a consolidation as opposed to a rewrite.
But I'd guess that would be exactly the same format as we have today.
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Post by: Zenithfleet
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Zenithfleet wrote:
That confirms a long-standing suspicion I've had that Andy H wrote the fluff sections. I'm... uh... not really a fan of his writing style, and have felt that way since the stuff he did for Lustria back in 6th ed WFB--although back then it was hard to tell what was Andy and what was Mat Ward.
From a technical standpoint, my beef is that Andy tends to use endless run-on sentences full of commas. This is more of a problem than it might seem. Seriously, take a look at any random section of the fluff bits in the AT books. (It's true of the Titan descriptions on the colour-scheme pages too, which may or may not be by Andy, so it's not necessarily a problem limited to him.) Practically every sentence goes: 'blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah COMMA, blah blah blah.' Over and over again. It deadens the writing and makes it dull to read.
A mix of short and long sentences, though? That holds your attention. Many of the older-school GW writers, such as Andy C, Jervis, Rick and so on either knew this instinctively or had it drummed into them (possibly by Bill King). Someone get this man a bag of full stops!
It's very in keeping with the Forge World fluff writing for both Horus Heresy and Imperial Armour, IA 13 was all Andy Hoare's work and the thing is a monument to how IA books should be written. As to the run on sentence, the king of that was Alan Bligh, go ahead and criticize him for it, you'll have at least a hundred 30k players willing to pay airfare to hunt you down and do unpleasant things to you about it... AT was written to be a comfortable cousin to, and verymuch in the style of, Horus Heresy.
And criticizing someone's writing whilst heaping praise on JJ... ye gods. That guy is a lovely chap, but terrible meandering waffler when it comes to holding a paragraph together.
*shrug* Style comes down to personal preference. You like it, I don't. There's only one way to settle this: D10 roll-off at twenty paces.
I'm not criticising the content, mind you. Well, I do criticise the lack of content in the AT books, especially since FW apparently has oodles of Legion fluff all worked out and is keeping tight-lipped about it for some reason... but the actual historical events and so on seem fine, and I quite like the overall sweep of Beta-Garmon stuff in Titandeath. It's just the style that drives me bonkers. I could go into more detail, but I'm off-topic enough as it is.
And when I praise Andy C, Jervis et al, I'm only speaking about finished-product fluff in the older army books and codexes, which by nature would get a more thorough polishing (if not proofreading). Not whatever they might wibble on about in a magazine article, which I suspect you might be thinking of.
It's not nostalgia talking, though. I only read the 5th ed WFB army books a couple of years ago, and they just crackle with energy and pace. In Jervis's case I mainly have the old WFB Undead book in mind. The material itself might be all cartoony and "I shall have my evil revenge," but jeez it's a good read. That whole Sylvania bit...
But I concede that they probably had behind-the-scenes assistance. I hear Bill King gave Andy C a few pointers on writing for the original Skaven army book background, for instance. No doubt he did the same for Jervis in the Undead book. Rick P I think tended to go a bit... eccentric with the humorous digressions when he cut loose, and probably needed a good editor to rein him in. And so on. So I take no issue with you taking issue with Jervis.
Anyway, since the only FW fluff I've read (at least I think it was FW) was for that resin BFG Tau fleet they did, it's unfair of me to compare AT to regular GW stuff from the good old days of yore. For all I know, AT writing may be head and shoulders and carapace above regular GW fluff these days. The latter was getting pretty dire when I stopped reading it and that was ages ago.
Speaking of Battlefleet Gothic... that's my usual point of comparison with Titanicus. Again, unfair since that was core GW back in the Silver Age, but it's what I know. BFG takes what I assume to be a similar 'Jane's Guide to the Emperor's Navy' approach, with that calm military-history feel to its ship descriptions... but in my opinion it's much more evocative and enjoyable to read than the AT stuff I've seen so far. Like the one about the cruiser that was built in orbit above a feral world over a decade. Or the puny transport ship that saved a convoy by suicidally taking on a Chaos cruiser all by itself.
More like that for Titanicus, please. Fingers crossed we'll get some of it with the 'Titans of Legend' when they come out. (Hey look, I'm back on topic.)
AndrewGPaul wrote:Pfft, I've read Iain M Banks' novels. Run-on sentences in Forge World books hold no fear. There's a page in The Algebraist that is fully taken up by only two sentences.
Yep, but Iain M Banks is, you know, a writer. He punctuates precisely when he means to.* Two sentences per page? That's writing, that is.
I remember how stunned I was when I learned a while ago that 80s GW nearly had Tanith Lee writing for them. Everyone was going on about how Terry Pratchett was asked to slum for them and how amazing it would have been... but Tanith frickin' Lee! Can you imagine the Slaanesh we would have had? 
*At least when he has a good editor.
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Post by: Zenithfleet
Argh triple post... think I hit quote instead of edit
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Post by: Zenithfleet
Sorry everyone, triple posted somehow 
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Zenithfleet wrote:
I remember how stunned I was when I learned a while ago that 80s GW nearly had Tanith Lee writing for them. Everyone was going on about how Terry Pratchett was asked to slum for them and how amazing it would have been... but Tanith frickin' Lee! Can you imagine the Slaanesh we would have had?
The first wave of books, from the early 1990s, were all written by established authors; I think Bill King was the newbie in that group. Kim Newman, Brian Stableford, Charles Stross (although again, early in his career, I think), Storm Constantine, Ian Watson, Barrington J. Bayley, etc.
I know Bill King stopped writing for Black Library as they didn't pay well enough; that may be why BL used mostly newer authors instead.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
How to paint House Malinax Knights....
Wraithbone, then Aggaros Dunes.
Drybrush highlight if you fancy. Looks like my Knights are getting painted this weekend!
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Post by: schoon
Unless I'm totally missing the concept of Warhammer Day, it's not the type of "event" where we're likely to get any further information about the future of AT.
What is the next big convention where we're likely to get news?
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Post by: SamusDrake
No idea, but they've talked enough at Warhammer Fest and now just need to get on with it.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
They've been LCTB for a while. And they will be restocked in time.
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Post by: SamusDrake
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Post by: schoon
If it truly is a method to make your own Legio rules, then big thumbs up!
My concern is that it will be about the theory behind Legio creation without the rules to support it.
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Post by: SamusDrake
They should at least cover "Traits, Stratagems and Wargear".
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Post by: Chopstick
Unless you have some spectacular options to pick I reckon it'd probably be better to just proxy your legio as some other existed one.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Chopstick wrote:Unless you have some spectacular options to pick I reckon it'd probably be better to just proxy your legio as some other existed one.
That has always been the way; you trade a certain amount of raw power for the flexibility of greater customisation.
The best path is of course to come up with your own Legio with full background and custom rules than head up to Warhammer World and play test it wit the devs, while simultaneously launching a charm offensive to get your Legio published as an ‘official’ one.
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Post by: Mandragola
We don't know yet. Of the existing legios, very few actually have good traits, strats, wargear and princeps abilities. For example Astorum have awesome traits and a good stratagem, but no wargear and awful princeps traits - and they are one of the best legios.
So it could very well be possible for homebrew legios to be better than any of the established legios without any of their individual abilities being especially strong. You'd just need to pick abilities in every "slot" that actually did something - anything - and you'd be better off than a lot of the written legios.
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Post by: Overread
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/
Scroll down for Acastus Knights Porphyrion as well as a several packs of cards. It seems there's a "hero" pack and two packs of tactical cards, one for Imperials one for Heretics.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Two hero packs; one loyalist, one traitor, to match the stratagem cards and dice sets.
Also, the generic Acastus terminal set too.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Ooooh nice, I think I may have to pick up some chonky bois. 2 to a box I assume.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Might actually be one per; they are quite chunky as you say. But then they start to look Titan-priced which would be bad. We’ll see on Saturday I guess.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Mr_Rose wrote:Might actually be one per; they are quite chunky as you say. But then they start to look Titan-priced which would be bad. We’ll see on Saturday I guess.
Warhounds are two to a box and Porphyrion’s are slightly smaller, I suppose I’m basing my assumption from there.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Thank gawd for that! It was late coming, but super happy for the Acastus' release, along with the dice sets of which I'll get one set and the other later on.
Nice to see the Thousand Sons set! Not a chaos player, but the Tzeentch range is stunning - especially Ahriman - so I think that'll be one for the following month. I take the Tzaangors are the AoS set with two upgrade sprues?
OMG, An Eldar dude who looks cool too! I'll have to sneak him in somewhere... Automatically Appended Next Post:  Nostromodamus wrote:Ooooh nice, I think I may have to pick up some chonky bois. 2 to a box I assume.
Looking at the points on the Command terminals, its 90pts for a banner, so if the Cerastus is 130 pts for two models...I've got a feeling he'll be on his own, assuming they sell them on a "minimum banner" basis(Qs 3, Cs 2, As 1). Also, its sprue indicates a complete, single model.
That said, it would be cool if they do a double pack with discount!
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Post by: Mendi Warrior
Acastus will be 2 per box (2 sprues, 1 per sprue), it was confirmed during the Warhammer Fest when they were initially shown iirc.
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Post by: Geifer
How nice of them to release the Porphyrion. I was afraid the wait was going to be longer.
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Post by: xttz
Hope the next batch of FW weapons are coming this Friday then. The first two were launched the same week as the last AT release.
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Post by: Chopstick
Sooooo....look like they save that Questoris upgrade pack to quench the content drought for some other time.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Mendi Warrior wrote:Acastus will be 2 per box (2 sprues, 1 per sprue), it was confirmed during the Warhammer Fest when they were initially shown iirc.
Ah, if thats the case then it'll be interesting to see how much they cost. £35 would make sense as they share packaging, but if £40 then they might as well do them singular. Automatically Appended Next Post: Chopstick wrote:Sooooo....look like they save that Questoris upgrade pack to quench the content drought for some other time.
Possibly released at the same time as the Reaver carapace weapons?
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Post by: Mandragola
I'd hope for £30 or under for the Porphyrons. More than that is into warhound territory. Hounds are actually about twice as many points as a Porphyron.
Two per box is actually a bit annoying, as you'll probably want to field a lance of three most of the time.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Chopstick wrote:Sooooo....look like they save that Questoris upgrade pack to quench the content drought for some other time.
I suspect we'll see that launched alongside the Warlord and Reaver carapace weapons FW have previewed.
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Post by: Mandragola
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Chopstick wrote:Sooooo....look like they save that Questoris upgrade pack to quench the content drought for some other time.
I suspect we'll see that launched alongside the Warlord and Reaver carapace weapons FW have previewed.
I doubt that, actually. Those are going to be resin guns so they'll likely be on FW's site along with the quake and macro gatling. They'll be released on a Friday with FW's schedule.
The knight sprue is plastic so it'll go out on a Saturday and be sold through the main site, like everything else. And apparently it might be used in a reboxing of the questoris knights.
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Post by: MarkNorfolk
RRP - £30 for two Acastus. £15 for the terminals, £15 for the dice.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Do we have a sauce on those prices?
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Post by: Geifer
I hope that translates to 40€ for the Knights.
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Post by: Chopstick
That price translate into 50-60 USD  Somebody should make an in dept documentary on why shrinking existing model, skipping the design process lead to substantially more expensive kit compared to Blood Bowl or Necromunda, I'm dumb. That's still cheaper than buying 2 box of questoris knight, so great, i guess.....
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Post by: Krinsath
Chopstick wrote:That price translate into 50-60 USD Somebody should make an in dept documentary on why shrinking existing model, skipping the design process lead to substantially more expensive kit compared to Blood Bowl or Necromunda, I'm dumb.
That's still cheaper than buying 2 box of questoris knight, so great, i guess.....
Few factors:
1) Design work. Just because a model exists doesn't mean there's a "reduce scale 400%" button that works. Even if there was, you have a model designed for 28mm resin production that has to be translated to 6mm HIPS production which has different requirements. While it can be likened more to an edit than a full-out creation due to the existing template and assets, there is still a ton of design work and engineering to be done.
2) Production scale. This is speculation, but Blood Bowl likely has a larger following than AT given that the former has been played continuously while the latter kind of was subsumed by Epic which was not a Titan-focused game and then recently re-launched. Thus GW likely expects to shift more units of any given Blood Bowl team. While AT has sold well, we don't have access to the overall production numbers. It could very well be that BB production runs are 10x what an AT product gets, thus meaning an economy of scale.
3) Because they can (which is probably the primary reason). I have a feeling they intend for Blood Bowl and Necromunda to be pitched as "casual" games to attract random people who might happen upon them in a store and thus they want to keep the price point low. Hewitt has mentioned in interviews how GW intended for AT to be marketed to more "veteran" gamers. I'm fairly sure that's corporatespeak for "people who are used to paying a lot". The relative cost of the starter sets certainly alludes to this idea. They aren't really trying to draw in the random observer directly, and so they're pricing at what they think they can get and not what would draw people in.
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Post by: MarkNorfolk
Sweet Chilli. Or I can do BBQ!
It's from a trader email.
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Post by: Mendi Warrior
Prices for the FW stuff have increased: the macro-gatling and quake cannon are now £15 (vs £14) and the civitas sector tiles are £84 (vs £80).
The GME is going to £180.
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Post by: Nurglitch
 Krinsath wrote:Hewitt has mentioned in interviews how GW intended for AT to be marketed to more "veteran" gamers. I'm fairly sure that's corporatespeak for "people who are used to paying a lot". The relative cost of the starter sets certainly alludes to this idea. They aren't really trying to draw in the random observer directly, and so they're pricing at what they think they can get and not what would draw people in.
Regarding 'Veteran gamers' I'd say it's moreso people with very specific tastes who are willing to pay a lot to satisfy them. People who, for example, would probably be unwilling to buy a re-print of 1989's Adeptus Titanicus because the Titans wouldn't be up to the quality of 2018's production quality.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I think people are overestimating the cost of AT.
Yes, I have spent quite a bit of dough on it. Got the basic rules box, 3 Warlords, 2 Reavers, 4 Warhounds, 12 Questoris and 4 Lancers. But that's considerably more than I needed to spend.
Heck, one can get a solid starting force for....
Rules - £35
Titan Battle Group - £100
Another Titan of your choice (£35/£40/£65).
That gives you a decent array of Titans, and access to more than one Maniple type.
Me? I'd probably plump for a second Reaver, choosing the one with the Melta sprue. Sure it's the cheapest option to expand, but it's also the most flexible Titan Class, and that extra sprue gives me the most options.
If I went for a second Warlord (the most expensive option, taking the opening cost to £200) I'd again go for the other box, bagging Sunfuries, and Powerfist and some Laser blasters.
And.....that's it. You've got a decent selection of weapons to try out, and a force that can do most things.
Sure, it's not cheap. But it's not a massive price tag for such an enjoyable game.
And from there? The most cash efficient way you can vary your force is weapon expansions. For the price of adding a second/third Warlord, one can buy the Mori Quake Cannon, Macro Gatling Blaster, and one each of the Reaver Weapon sprues. That gives a Princeps a significant choice of dakka, including doubling up all the Reaver weapons on a single chassis.
It's one of the reasons I'm hooked. No need to buy a whole new Titan. Just slap different dakka on it, and enjoy a new experience
Though yes. As new Titans come out I will be buying them. Because of course I will.
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Post by: gorgon
Unfortunately, the GME box created some first impressions, and those can be hard to shake. I absolutely recommend the battlegroup box (plus the rules box) to new players. It's a *great* starting point, where the mix of stuff in the GME box really isn't.
Now the upgrade sprues and resin weapons can impact the wallet more than you'd think. And the lack of availability of the resin weapons is more than a little annoying. It's fairly ridiculous. And building out an AT table can be expensive, depending on how you want to do it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably avoid doing a cityscape and build a canyon table out of cheap foam.
But yeah, getting the rules and basic Titans you need for a solid maniple really isn't as bad as people think.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Thats brilliant news! Thanks for making our day!
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Post by: Nurglitch
You'll never sell people on a leisure activity by focusing on cost. You will sell it to people on the basis of value, because if it's valuable enough the cost won't be a barrier.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Mendi Warrior wrote:Prices for the FW stuff have increased: the macro-gatling and quake cannon are now £15 (vs £14) and the civitas sector tiles are £84 (vs £80).
The GME is going to £180.
Still no weapon stock for the US that I can tell.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I am considering buying into this game but am confused by the options, specifically the dashboards and weapon cards and where they are or aren't already included and if any of the packs have cards that aren't in the rules box.
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Post by: SamusDrake
 lord_blackfang wrote:I am considering buying into this game but am confused by the options, specifically the dashboards and weapon cards and where they are or aren't already included and if any of the packs have cards that aren't in the rules box.
Essentially, the AT Ruleset has two "command terminals" each for the following types; Warlord, Reaver, Warhound and Questoris Knight banner. After that, you either need to buy additional terminals or just make cheap substitutes.
For the weapon cards, the Knights don't need them and their weapons are covered on the terminals. The Titans are a different matter - each titan will need its own weapon cards. The Ruleset has one card for each type of weapon for the Warlord, Reaver and Warhound. The complication here is that if you have two warhounds, and each is armed with a mega-bolter each - the ruleset only provides one mega-bolter card; you will need to purchase an additional warhound weapon card pack. This goes for the Reaver's weapons too. The only exception is the Warlord, which contains enough cards to cover two "Volcano cannon" Warlord miniatures - the same ones provided in the Grand Master Edition.
The terminals are not as much a problem as you can download more, print and then glue them to card( checkout the WH community site for this ). The weapon cards however are not - you'll have to scan them, do a little work in an image-editor and then print more, or alternatively create your own from scratch if you don't have a scanner. There are a lot of creative money-saving tricks here so long as you put a little effort in, and there could be an app to replace all this lunacy in the future...
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Post by: totalfailure
I wouldn’t wait up on any apps. GW, after all, did promise a 40K app similar to the AoS one when the 8th edition launched, and here we are two years later without anything in sight.
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Post by: Chopstick
 totalfailure wrote:I wouldn’t wait up on any apps. GW, after all, did promise a 40K app similar to the AoS one when the 8th edition launched, and here we are two years later without anything in sight.
Well they did launch that low effort web based "combat roster" after all.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
SamusDrake wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:I am considering buying into this game but am confused by the options, specifically the dashboards and weapon cards and where they are or aren't already included and if any of the packs have cards that aren't in the rules box.
Essentially, the AT Ruleset has two "command terminals" each for the following types; Warlord, Reaver, Warhound and Questoris Knight banner. After that, you either need to buy additional terminals or just make cheap substitutes.
For the weapon cards, the Knights don't need them and their weapons are covered on the terminals. The Titans are a different matter - each titan will need its own weapon cards. The Ruleset has one card for each type of weapon for the Warlord, Reaver and Warhound. The complication here is that if you have two warhounds, and each is armed with a mega-bolter each - the ruleset only provides one mega-bolter card; you will need to purchase an additional warhound weapon card pack. This goes for the Reaver's weapons too. The only exception is the Warlord, which contains enough cards to cover two "Volcano cannon" Warlord miniatures - the same ones provided in the Grand Master Edition.
The terminals are not as much a problem as you can download more, print and then glue them to card( checkout the WH community site for this ). The weapon cards however are not - you'll have to scan them, do a little work in an image-editor and then print more, or alternatively create your own from scratch if you don't have a scanner. There are a lot of creative money-saving tricks here so long as you put a little effort in, and there could be an app to replace all this lunacy in the future...
I’m not sure one need even go that far.
If you’ve got the rulebook, you’ve got the cards. So we need one on each terminal, or just a clear note of who is packing what, and the right card to hand somewhere?
Sure, it looks nice when everything is in its proper place, but I can’t see many opponents objecting, provided there’s at least a post-it note on the relevant slot, saying what the weapon is. And if they do object? Grubbing up extra cards is probably the least of your problems with they’re your opponent
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Post by: Mandragola
In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
If you need more terminals and stuff the best option for me is to buy a second rule set. You get another couple of terminals for each titan and now you've got two of each weapon card.
The battleforce is by far the most efficient way to buy actual titans. If you can get it from a FLGS with 20-25% off then that and the rule set will cost not much over £100. That's enough stuff to play the game. You'll probably want some alternate weapons before long so it might make sense to get the alternate reaver and/or warlord - or to order the sprues from GW.
I did buy a pack of warhound and reaver weapon cards. Not sure I really needed the reaver ones. The packs aren't all that expensive though.
The game is awesome and so are the models. I think GW messed up the launch with the GME, which has the wrong stuff in it and costs too much. That put people off and meant that starter games with just two warlords blasting each other weren't much good. But this is now a really good time to get into the game.
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Post by: aracersss
Is this still coming?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Thanks SamusDrake and Mandragola!
I think I'll go with the rules pack, titan battleforce and alternate Reaver for now, which is an Axiom exactly.
Oh yeah... how do army compositions look in practice? Since points are only on cards, I don't even know how much stuff you can field in a standard point game. And is it common to max out one Maniple or do people commonly field several different, under-strength Maniples?
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Post by: Chopstick
lord_blackfang wrote:Thanks SamusDrake and Mandragola! I think I'll go with the rules pack, titan battleforce and alternate Reaver for now, which is an Axiom exactly. Oh yeah... how do army compositions look in practice? Since points are only on cards, I don't even know how much stuff you can field in a standard point game. And is it common to max out one Maniple or do people commonly field several different, under-strength Maniples?
Spare points go to Support knights for me. Usually I just want 1 maniple because the rule for that maniple is what I want. Knight is an important part to any army, they move fast, they ignore like half the rule of this game, and they are generally very annoying (or even deadly), also they can guard your titan against on coming Knights/ Titan.
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Post by: zedmeister
As a reference, here's the Acastus sprue:
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Post by: Chopstick
Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.
The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.
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Post by: Mandragola
Chopstick wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Thanks SamusDrake and Mandragola!
I think I'll go with the rules pack, titan battleforce and alternate Reaver for now, which is an Axiom exactly.
Oh yeah... how do army compositions look in practice? Since points are only on cards, I don't even know how much stuff you can field in a standard point game. And is it common to max out one Maniple or do people commonly field several different, under-strength Maniples?
Spare points go to Support knights for me. Usually I just want 1 maniple because the rule for that maniple is what I want.
Knight is an important part to any army, they move fast, they ignore like half the rule of this game, and they are generally very annoying (or even deadly), also they can guard your titan against on coming Knights/ Titan.
Those initial purchases seem sensible. Get yourself some 5x1mm round rare earth magnets too. The warlord is designed to be magnetised with them. It's really easy to do and you'll be very happy you did it. The reaver and warhound aren't designed to be magnetised (no holes like the warlord has) but there are loads of tutorials on how to do it online. You could order yourself a quake cannon or macro gatling from FW if you wanted, as the double-bellicosa load out isn't much good in my opinion.
GW have released downloadable terminals if you'd like to see some points values that are legally in the public domain: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/AT-Command-Terminals.pdf
No weapon cards there I'm afraid. Once you've added those on a warlord will cost somewhere around 500 points, a reaver 300 or a bit over and a warhound about 220.
In terms of army composition you tend to see just one maniple per list. There are pretty significant advantages if you're able to fit in a second one though, as each maniple is led by a Princeps Seniores who gets +2 to his command value and a random warlord-trait-type-thing. There's no real advantage of adding the other two titans, though they do get the maniple's rules.
There's no standard size to a game. They suggest up to 1750 as a medium-sized game you can play in 2-3 hours, though at first it'll take longer because the rules are pretty dense. Most people seem to play either 1750 or 2000.
It's just about possible to get two maniples into 1750. There are a few maniples based on a reaver and two warhounds, which come to about 750 points. It's just about possible to get a bare bones Axiom maniple for 1000. Or you can go a bit nuts and bring a Myrmidon maniple with three warlords and a reaver, which is my preferred approach!
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Post by: Yodhrin
Chopstick wrote:Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.
The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.
He meant they're similar to Warhounds in that they're about the same size and you get two in a box.
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Post by: Chopstick
Yodhrin wrote:Chopstick wrote:Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.
The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.
He meant they're similar to Warhounds in that they're about the same size and you get two in a box.
It's a nonsensical comparison regardless, now that there are people out there actually beleive those same should have similar/slightly lower price point because they're 2 and at the same size, Warhound and Reaver both took 3 times the resource to make. This knight aint.
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Post by: DaveC
Acastus are 2 for £30 on the price lists that have gone to retailers so less than the £40 for 2 Warhounds.
Edit I see it was posted earlier.
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Post by: tneva82
Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?
It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
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Post by: Chopstick
tneva82 wrote:Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models. .
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey? It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
You also pay more to get that free warlord. In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff. Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
tneva82 wrote:Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?
It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
Another consideration is that probably no online discounter will free ship you the GME. I can get it locally for 15% off the Euro zone price and it basically translates to just the terrain being free, compared to Wayland prices. So FOR ME it's down to free terrain (and being locked into two identical Warlord builds) vs free Warhounds.
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Post by: Albertorius
lord_blackfang wrote:tneva82 wrote:Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?
It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
Another consideration is that probably no online discounter will free ship you the GME. I can get it locally for 15% off the Euro zone price and it basically translates to just the terrain being free, compared to Wayland prices. So now it's down to free terrain (and being locked into two identical Warlord builds) vs free Warhounds.
OTOH, I did manage to buy two Titan Battlegroup boxes off Wayland with Free Shipping, 20% off and price in pounds instead of euros, so... I ended up getting quite a discount compared with buying them locally (about 180 euros in total for both boxes).
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Post by: Mandragola
Chopstick wrote:tneva82 wrote:Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?
It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
You also pay more to get that free warlord.
In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff.
Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?
Well it's not even a legal list. Where the battleforce can be fielded as an Axiom maniple (or several others) there's nothing you can do with just two warlords.
In terms of value, sure the GME gives you a free warlord. Actually the two sets give you roughly similar discounts in terms of percentage. The £40 discount off the battleforce's contents that sells for £100 is about equivalent to the £65 discount on the contents of the £175 GME. The difference is that you actually want all of the titans in the battleforce. You're likely to use most or all of those titans in pretty much every game you play. Two warlords and two knight banners, not so much.
A GME does make more sense if two people are splitting it. If each person got the GME and a battleforce, and you also got a rules set, then you'd each have two warlords, a reaver and two warhounds. You're still ending up with probably more warlords than you want, and not enough reavers. Reavers are relatively cheap though.
The other issue is that these warlords come with a bad selection of weapons. I think it was a real error to give you two of the same arm weapon on tha original sprue. They easily might have given you a plasma gun and a volcano cannon, essentially like they did for the reaver. Now, whatever version you buy, you'll have to buy the other sprue and probably some resin weapons. It's weird that they didn't use the same principles for all the versions. Warhounds get two of each gun, which is great. Reavers give you most things between the two versions. But it means that getting lots of warlords means lots of likely future expenditure, to give them a decent load-out. That isn't the case for warhounds or reavers.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Forgeworld currently only sells two Warlord guns. I wasn't paying much attention but did they use to have more? I've seen some weapons in battle reports that I can't find anywhere, like Reaver carapace vortex missiles here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjhOwwHGno . Or are these conversions?
So which weapons are good/bad and why?
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Post by: xttz
Those are conversions - missiles are pretty easy to throw together from other model kits.
Of the weapon cards originally released with AT, we still don't have:
Reaver carapace warp missile
Reaver carapace vulcan mega-bolter
Warlord carapace vulcan mega-bolter
Warlord carapace gatling blasters
The two Reaver weapons were previewed along with the Acastus knight and *might* make an appearance this Friday with FW pre-orders. We also saw a CAD render of the Warlord carapace gatlings at the same time, so that's in progress.
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Post by: gorgon
Mandragola wrote:Chopstick wrote:tneva82 wrote:Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?
It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
You also pay more to get that free warlord.
In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff.
Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?
Well it's not even a legal list. Where the battleforce can be fielded as an Axiom maniple (or several others) there's nothing you can do with just two warlords.
In terms of value, sure the GME gives you a free warlord. Actually the two sets give you roughly similar discounts in terms of percentage. The £40 discount off the battleforce's contents that sells for £100 is about equivalent to the £65 discount on the contents of the £175 GME. The difference is that you actually want all of the titans in the battleforce. You're likely to use most or all of those titans in pretty much every game you play. Two warlords and two knight banners, not so much.
A GME does make more sense if two people are splitting it. If each person got the GME and a battleforce, and you also got a rules set, then you'd each have two warlords, a reaver and two warhounds. You're still ending up with probably more warlords than you want, and not enough reavers. Reavers are relatively cheap though.
The other issue is that these warlords come with a bad selection of weapons. I think it was a real error to give you two of the same arm weapon on tha original sprue. They easily might have given you a plasma gun and a volcano cannon, essentially like they did for the reaver. Now, whatever version you buy, you'll have to buy the other sprue and probably some resin weapons. It's weird that they didn't use the same principles for all the versions. Warhounds get two of each gun, which is great. Reavers give you most things between the two versions. But it means that getting lots of warlords means lots of likely future expenditure, to give them a decent load-out. That isn't the case for warhounds or reavers.
I also feel like the terrain in the GME set is a money pit. It's not nearly enough to fill a table, so you end up needing a LOT more of the surprisingly expensive Civitas sets to do it in a uniform way. (This is where I'm at right now.) I'm not a big fan of the DZC cardboard terrain, so if I had to do it over I'd probably build canyon terrain out of foam.
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Post by: Chopstick
4 Shot with Blast, these guys mean bussiness!
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Post by: xttz
5" S9 blast on those conversion beamers at long range... that looks fun too!
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Post by: zedmeister
Not too shabby at all. That conversion beamer cannon of the Asterios is nicely done - larger blast at longer range.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Chopstick wrote: Yodhrin wrote:Chopstick wrote:Lol @ that guy, The kit aren't similar to Warhound. Warhound is 3 different sprues (which mean triple the molds) with 2 Hounds, you can't separated a single hound from that kit.
The kit is similar to other knights and specialist game release, 1 sprue, now double up for AT, always were double up for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, just the price also got a jump.
He meant they're similar to Warhounds in that they're about the same size and you get two in a box.
It's a nonsensical comparison regardless, now that there are people out there actually beleive those same should have similar/slightly lower price point because they're 2 and at the same size, Warhound and Reaver both took 3 times the resource to make. This knight aint.
And if the price of GW kits was actually consistently linked to the amount of sprues in a box that would be a valid objection. Given GW's actual history of pricing things, however, fearing that two roughly Warhound-size models would cost the same as a box of two Warhounds despite all the various ways they're not like Warhounds otherwise was hardly unreasonable. As it turns out they don't, but they also cost an extra 50% over the other 2-sprue Knight boxes and they never weren't going to cost at least something more.
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Post by: xttz
I'm pretty happy with £30 for a box, with them being so close to Warhounds in scale I was honestly expecting £35-40.
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Post by: aracersss
is this sprue frame still coming or part of a different release along the way?
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Post by: xttz
They said that was coming both as part of a re-boxed Questoris kit and available separately like the titan weapons. Not sure when, but my money would be on August.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Different release it would seem.
Nice to see Acastus are 1-4 per Banner.
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Post by: Chopstick
No rule for Helios Missile, What if a Thunderbolt or Hellblade want to bully my Warlord ;(
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Post by: gorgon
Those weapon profiles are...surprising. Seems like Reaver-level firepower. Guess the points values are the missing info at this point.
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Post by: zedmeister
Chopstick wrote:No rule for Helios Missile, What if a Thunderbolt or Hellblade want to bully my Warlord ;(
... yet. Aeronautica will (hopefully) change that
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Post by: lord_blackfang
How come weapons points aren't on the terminal? Knights don't get cards, do they?
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Post by: frankr
The points are probably on the back of the terminal.
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Post by: SamusDrake
This dude is bad news walking!
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Post by: Chopstick
50 US$ for the Acastus
Cheaper than buying 2 questoris box.
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Post by: xttz
Any idea why the terminal cards aren't listed under web exclusive anymore?
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Post by: Mendi Warrior
Let's hope they will be available via third parties. Fingers crossed!
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Post by: Mandragola
gorgon wrote:Those weapon profiles are...surprising. Seems like Reaver-level firepower. Guess the points values are the missing info at this point.
My thoughts exactly. This thing just seems much shootier than its size would suggest. Its firepower is at least equal to a reaver titan.
It's weird. I don't mind knights getting a gun platform, if it's priced appropriately. But it's not quite believable. Why bother building titans with explosive plasma reactors, a crew of several people and all that stuff when you could just have one guy drive a smaller knight that somehow does more damage?
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Post by: Overread
Because reavers have shields and more powerful armour. Plus their higher size makes them more suited to firing over things that the knight might not be able to see over. The knights pack a punch but they won't be able to take anywhere near as much in return fire.
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Post by: Chopstick
Mandragola wrote: gorgon wrote:Those weapon profiles are...surprising. Seems like Reaver-level firepower. Guess the points values are the missing info at this point.
My thoughts exactly. This thing just seems much shootier than its size would suggest. Its firepower is at least equal to a reaver titan. It's weird. I don't mind knights getting a gun platform, if it's priced appropriately. But it's not quite believable. Why bother building titans with explosive plasma reactors, a crew of several people and all that stuff when you could just have one guy drive a smaller knight that somehow does more damage?
Seems more like you guys haven't been up to date with 40k stuff for a long time. It's not a Knight problem, it's the Titan's problem, literally many unit from tiny Dreadnought, to tank and stuff can possibly fit in more guns in it than the Titans, the design is outdated. Void shield and the ability to repair itself are still Titan's biggest feature. Knight just got withered down and wiped off the table in the long run. Althought, I have to admit, 6 shot missile pod and 4 shot Magna Lascannon is nonsense lol, they didn't have that much shot in their 30k and 40k profile. Can't wait to see what crazy rule they come up next for the Rapier titan, Atrapos and Dominus Knights.
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Post by: Mandragola
Chopstick wrote:Mandragola wrote: gorgon wrote:Those weapon profiles are...surprising. Seems like Reaver-level firepower. Guess the points values are the missing info at this point.
My thoughts exactly. This thing just seems much shootier than its size would suggest. Its firepower is at least equal to a reaver titan.
It's weird. I don't mind knights getting a gun platform, if it's priced appropriately. But it's not quite believable. Why bother building titans with explosive plasma reactors, a crew of several people and all that stuff when you could just have one guy drive a smaller knight that somehow does more damage?
Seems more like you guys haven't been up to date with 40k stuff for a long time.
It's not a Knight problem, it's the Titan's problem, literally many unit from tiny Dreadnought, to tank and stuff can possibly fit in more guns in it than the Titans, the design is outdated.
Void shield and the ability to repair itself are still Titan's biggest feature. Knight just got withered down and wiped off the table in the long run.
Althought, I have to admit, 6 shot missile pod and 4 shot Magna Lascannon is nonsense lol, they didn't have that much shot in their 30k and 40k profile.
Can't wait to see what crazy rule they come up next for the Rapier titan, Atrapos and Dominus Knights.
This is my point though. It doesn't make sense that the little rocket pod on the Acastus is more powerful than the acastus missile launcher on a reaver, or that the knight's lasers - which are smaller than the reaver's, have longer range, no penalty to hit at range and (most weirdly) cause 3" blasts.
In theory the knight can be popped by a single crit. In reality it's hard for anything but a bellicosa to do that. You need a 17 to kill one so minimum S11 and the Acastus will be far away, behind a wall of angry charging knights.
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Post by: Nurglitch
If the Knights have Power Fish, then your Titan's nightmare has come true.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
So I don't know how force-org works in the modern AT, but if I wanted four of these in a list. but also other small Knights, is that both legal an viable?
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Post by: zedmeister
Nurglitch wrote:If the Knights have Power Fish, then your Titan's nightmare has come true.
It'll be fearing for it's sole. Automatically Appended Next Post: NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:So I don't know how force-org works in the modern AT, but if I wanted four of these in a list. but also other small Knights, is that both legal an viable?
Yes and yes. You'd need to form a lance (or multiple lances). A lance is three banners of Knights. The knights can be of any type, but each banner of knights have to be equipped in the same fashion. So, for example: Banner of 3 Questoris Paladins Banner of 2 Cerastus Lancers Banners 4 Acastus Porphyrions They die quickly, but can brutalise Titan's if they get in close.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
I just read about "maniples" and am now more interested than before. I love the idea of just fielding Warhounds and Knights, as I just love them aesthetically.
I'm thinking 4-5 Warhounds and then loads of Knights would be fun. Hopefully it could still win games. ;-)
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Post by: zedmeister
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:I just read about "maniples" and am now more interested than before. I love the idea of just fielding Warhounds and Knights, as I just love them aesthetically.
I'm thinking 4-5 Warhounds and then loads of Knights would be fun. Hopefully it could still win games. ;-)
A lupercal maniple (3-5 Warhounds) + 1-2 Knight Lances would be a scary force to face. Highly maneuverable, destructive, but fragile
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Post by: SamusDrake
A mandatory maniple and household Lance would make for a good general purpose force.
While the Acastus is all groovy at the moment, there was talk of a "Rapier" scout titan...it could be a foil for the Knights.
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Post by: tneva82
Chopstick wrote:tneva82 wrote:Mandragola wrote:In my opionion the best way to get into the game is to get the rules box set and the battleforce - not the Grand Master Edition. This way is cheaper than the GME and gives you a better selection of models.
.
Also gives you just free warhounds vs free warlord. Now remind me which kit was more pricey?
It's not as simple as always get x. 2 things decide. Do you want that terrain and do you plan ever using moie than 1 warlord. If ye# to both gme saves more moeey
You also pay more to get that free warlord.
In the end it's either you want 2 warlord with zero options, or you want actual functioning maniple, with spare cash for knights, weapons option, and stuff.
Had anyone manage to make the 2 dual belicosa Warlord and 6 questoris knights list work?
And if you get all the other titans and 2nd warlord you end up paying less with the gme in the end. Again if you use terrain and 2nd warlord gme saves money. That's undisputable fact. Question thus is do you use those. If yes no twisting will make gme more exrensive for the end result. Yes initial price is higher but add in knights and 2nd warlord and you are more expensive.
Even "both warlords have same weapons" doesn't hold water as both original and new kit add on sprues cost same and even if you get mk2 warlord you need original weapon sprues or have crappy carapace. So mk1 plus mk2 sprue is same cost as mk2 and mk1 sprue.
It's real simple math
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Post by: UltraPrime
The GME is on LCTB.
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Post by: Chopstick
tneva82 wrote: And if you get all the other titans and 2nd warlord you end up paying less with the gme in the end. Again if you use terrain and 2nd warlord gme saves money. That's undisputable fact. Question thus is do you use those. If yes no twisting will make gme more exrensive for the end result. Yes initial price is higher but add in knights and 2nd warlord and you are more expensive. Even "both warlords have same weapons" doesn't hold water as both original and new kit add on sprues cost same and even if you get mk2 warlord you need original weapon sprues or have crappy carapace. So mk1 plus mk2 sprue is same cost as mk2 and mk1 sprue. It's real simple math
The only truth I see here is wheneever some one ask "how do I start AT?" I will never point them at the GME because that's not how you would start the game. For the same or lower budget you get something that is actually considered a "start" GME is frankly...meant for Grand Master , it meant for people who have large budget that looking to expand their force.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Indeed. GME is what, £180.00?
For that, I can get a Battle Group (£100), the rules (£35) and a second Reaver or pair of Warhounds. That’s a far better force for starting the game with.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Thinking about it, as a Knight player, things are a little more sunshine & buttercups...
Ruleset £35
4 x Acastus £60
Spires £20
...£115. Thats the rules, scenery, a Lance and 1 support banner. This is enough for an entry-level player and will also allow for an introductory, two player open game. Only problem with the logic here is that we are not including the price of Doom Of Molech for the household rules. In which case, stuff the spires, slap some paint on empty yogart pots and get DOM instead, bringing the price to £117.
You will probably have to fork out for the Acastus Terminals too, although with very basic skills one can just photocopy the terminal image(which some kind soul has posted earlier) and just ask about for the points cost for the weapons. GW will no doubt post the whole template in WD or make them a free download. Personally, when fielding more than one banner of the same type, I just use the primary terminal for the rules, and make smaller "strips" for the others - enough to keep track of orders and structure points( two plain D6s can take the place of the pegs and holes ). This is also very handy for saving tabletop space...
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Post by: Chopstick
I don't think 4 acastus would even hit the 1k points mark to be considered as something to start. And playing Knights first is probably not something I would introduce people to this game, as they ignore almost all core rule of this game. I.e what make this game "fun" I love Knights but the simplistic rule and the boring expansion didn''t do them any justice here, They'd need a major rule overhaul if Specialist Game team really want them to be their own thing, for the time being, they remain as cool support unit. Hopefully the Aircraft rule in AT would be a bit more interactive. I'd love to see a marauder destroyer launching 8 hellstrike missiles into the puny knights and "giant titan that somehow lacks dedicated anti air measure"
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
SamusDrake wrote:Thinking about it, as a Knight player, things are a little more sunshine & buttercups...
Ruleset £35
4 x Acastus £60
Spires £20
...£115. Thats the rules, scenery, a Lance and 1 support banner. This is enough for an entry-level player and will also allow for an introductory, two player open game. Only problem with the logic here is that we are not including the price of Doom Of Molech for the household rules. In which case, stuff the spires, slap some paint on empty yogart pots and get DOM instead, bringing the price to £117.
You will probably have to fork out for the Acastus Terminals too, although with very basic skills one can just photocopy the terminal image(which some kind soul has posted earlier) and just ask about for the points cost for the weapons. GW will no doubt post the whole template in WD or make them a free download. Personally, when fielding more than one banner of the same type, I just use the primary terminal for the rules, and make smaller "strips" for the others - enough to keep track of orders and structure points( two plain D6s can take the place of the pegs and holes ). This is also very handy for saving tabletop space...
Isn't that like... well under 1000pts? I mean, if that's a viable list I am alllll in, but thats a tiny, tiny game.
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Post by: Zenithfleet
zedmeister wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:So I don't know how force-org works in the modern AT, but if I wanted four of these in a list. but also other small Knights, is that both legal an viable?
Yes and yes. You'd need to form a lance (or multiple lances). A lance is three banners of Knights. The knights can be of any type, but each banner of knights have to be equipped in the same fashion. So, for example:
Banner of 3 Questoris Paladins
Banner of 2 Cerastus Lancers
Banners 4 Acastus Porphyrions
They die quickly, but can brutalise Titan's if they get in close.
Hang on a sec... I keep seeing people saying you have to take a Lance of Knights. Since when? I don't have the Molech book, but I thought the Lance force-org restriction was only if you were doing an all-Knight army.
For a regular force of Titans plus Knight support, surely you can just take one banner of 3-6 Questoris armed with whatever, or one banner of 1-4 Acastus, etc?
... Regarding the best way to buy in: I'd go with the ruleset + battlegroup box. That instantly gives you two options for a legal maniple (formation)--an Axiom that uses all four models, or a Venator that leaves out the Warlord. It also works out to about 1200 pts for the Axiom depending on weapons, which is a decent size for a good game. Plus it gives you all four basic Titan types to try out.
Then you can just add a Knight box, or an extra Reaver to fill out the Axiom maniple, or a Warhounds box to finish off the Venator, or whatever takes your fancy.
After that it gets addictive.
GW will try to milk your wallet for extra terminals, weapon cards and so on... but you can cheapskate your way around that, as others have suggested.
There's nothing to stop you playing counts-as with your weapons anyway. If you only have a handful of Titan models on the board, it's easy enough for both you and your opponent to remember who has which weapon.
And it's worth keeping in mind that you don't HAVE to use the maniple (force-org) rules at all. You can just turn up with a bunch of Titans and add up the points values if you agree with your opponent. Or not even bother with the points and go for Open Play. It's a pretty flexible game that way.
It's a surprisingly affordable game--by GW standards--once you realise that a single Titan model can be worth anywhere from 200 to 500 pts of your army. Reminds me of Battlefleet Gothic in that sense. I've managed to do it at Aussie prices, with a few discounts here and there, whereas I'd never so much as dream of trying to collect current-edition 40K armies these days.
Terrain, though... this is likely to be the part that makes you hesitate if you don't already have anything suitable. I don't really think the official AT terrain is well suited to Titanicus. You need height to block LOS to those tall Titans, and the Civitas buildings don't seem to provide enough of it at a cheap enough price. (At least one LOS blocker of Warlord size is invaluable so it can't see and blast everywhere on the board.)
I'd go with a third-party option or some homemade terrain instead. There's no reason it has to be city terrain either (in fact the fluff says Titans don't often fight in cities). A few fake rock formations from an aquarium shop will do just fine.
I reckon the boxy GW buildings are actually much better suited to classic Epic, where the Titan models are much smaller and you can put infantry squads on the rooftops.
I do rate the Spires kit though. So cool.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
My only dilemma keeping me from pulling the trigger, is the need to buy-in x2, due to the wife and I both needing lists.
That means two Axiom bundles, etc... plus all those cool Knights I want. I need to basically budget $500 to throw at the game, or nothing at all. I want to do it... its just a weird mental hurdle.
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Post by: schoon
From today's Twitch "AT18 Year One in Retrospective"
-- Future books - Seige of Kado (Hive world of Kado), Battle of Calth and Shadow Crusades (Ultramar)
-- Horus Heresy is fun because that's when the Mechanicum and Legios pulled out all the stops
-- At 8mm scale you can do far bigger battles than even Apocalypse - that's the goal
-- Andy and James Hewitt did most of the base rules
-- Owen and JTY have the helm for the game now
-- They did plastic because if AT was popular, it would consume FW's capacity, but this took time
-- The game was designed to be stately, as Titans tend to move slow, much like battleships
-- Titan machine spirits have personalities, though they are not strictly intelligent
-- Titans of Legend are those that have more divergent personalities - and thus special rules
-- Molech Knight only armies, even though their intent is to provide support
-- Knight only armies tend to have high casualties vs Titans - this was intentional
-- July White Dwarf has a collection of Legio Traits, Strategems, etc. for making your own Legio or splinter of an existing one
-- First AT rules in WD for 30 years
-- Acastus Knight is obviously on the way - largest knight
-- Most Knights are like cavalry - Acastus is like artillery
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Post by: gorgon
schoon wrote:From today's Twitch "AT18 Year One in Retrospective"
-- Future books -Seige of Kado (Hive world of Kado), Battle of Calth and Shadow Crusades (Ultramar)
EMBER WOLVES FTW! Automatically Appended Next Post: So the past fluff about the battle of Kado involved Crucius taking on Chaos Titans and Knights. Stands to reason that's the book where that stuff will start to be unveiled.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Well, I did say "as a knight player" and within the rules of the game, have covered both the option of open and matched play. Titans are indeed awesome but Knights are very entertaining for a quick game lasting 30-45 minutes. Depends on how you want to play...
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Do the weapon-card packs come with any weapon cards not already in the rules-bundle?
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Post by: Eumerin
No. They're the exact same weapons. The difference with the packs is that you get multiples of each weapon, which allows you to field more than one using the cards (assuming you don't make your own, of course). The weapon cards included in the rules set only include enough cards for one of each weapon, and exactly enough multiples to run the two warlord titans included in the GME.
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Post by: RazorEdge
schoon wrote:
At 8mm scale you can do far bigger battles than even Apocalypse - that's the goal
Bring finally Epic back!
115658
Post by: Chopstick
Also at 8mm more people can afford Titans and several Knight Lances. Apocalypse had the rule, but not many people had the budget or storage space to actually afford all of them. Not a problem for 8mm game.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Chopstick wrote:Also at 8mm more people can afford Titans and several Knight Lances. Apocalypse had the rule, but not many people had the budget or storage space to actually afford all of them. Not a problem for 8mm game.
Agreed. Looking into the crystal ball, I see an 8mm game involving super-heavy tanks. It could be an expansion for AT or even a new game altogether, but there is definitely an audience for the tracked wonders.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
In terms of Epic, I rather fear FW are currently victims of their own success!
Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT. All well received games. All have a following. And those followings need servicing, possibly at a faster pace than was first expected.
Until they've finished their expansion, which includes training peeps up on their standards etc, I don't think they've got much time on their hands to develop further products. Other than Aeronautica, which I'd largely forgotten about!
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Post by: Snitchey
Eumerin wrote:
No. They're the exact same weapons. The difference with the packs is that you get multiples of each weapon, which allows you to field more than one using the cards (assuming you don't make your own, of course). The weapon cards included in the rules set only include enough cards for one of each weapon, and exactly enough multiples to run the two warlord titans included in the GME.
Rather than buy extra card packs and terminals. I managed to pick a cheap extra rules pack. This seamed like the cheapest way to get extra cards and terminals unless you plan on having a huge amount of titans
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Post by: Chopstick
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:In terms of Epic, I rather fear FW are currently victims of their own success! Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT. All well received games. All have a following. And those followings need servicing, possibly at a faster pace than was first expected. Until they've finished their expansion, which includes training peeps up on their standards etc, I don't think they've got much time on their hands to develop further products. Other than Aeronautica, which I'd largely forgotten about!
Hoard all your stuff before Specialist Game crash and reboot again , at least that's what I'd do
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Post by: schoon
gorgon wrote:So the past fluff about the battle of Kado involved Crucius taking on Chaos Titans and Knights. Stands to reason that's the book where that stuff will start to be unveiled.
Also of interest - they mentioned that one of the new books would start seeing a more evident Chaos influence on Titans.
...and they opened the door to an eventual Xenos expansion, saying it would be in a slightly different period, though it's still far off.
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Post by: xttz
Snitchey wrote:Eumerin wrote:
No. They're the exact same weapons. The difference with the packs is that you get multiples of each weapon, which allows you to field more than one using the cards (assuming you don't make your own, of course). The weapon cards included in the rules set only include enough cards for one of each weapon, and exactly enough multiples to run the two warlord titans included in the GME.
Rather than buy extra card packs and terminals. I managed to pick a cheap extra rules pack. This seamed like the cheapest way to get extra cards and terminals unless you plan on having a huge amount of titans
I did something similar; found someone on ebay who had split the rules set and bought just the terminal pack from that for slightly less than an Axiom set from GW. Of course that includes extra Warlord and Knight cards over the Axiom too! Had to buy the full Reaver weapon pack as I like to run 3-5 of them.
Curious to see when the Acastus terminal will be available for download like the rest. Wonder if they'll wait until the current stock of cards has sold first, or just publish it on Saturday.
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Post by: Deathwatch101
schoon wrote:
Also of interest - they mentioned that one of the new books would start seeing a more evident Chaos influence on Titans.
...and they opened the door to an eventual Xenos expansion, at least not in the seminars i have seen/been in, saying it would be in a slightly different period, though it's still far off.
I don't think they ever said that they were ruling out Xenos, more that they weren't focusing on it at the moment as there was a lot of stuff from the Heresy to cover first.
Once the Heresy era titans were all gone, it stands to reason that they would look at other revenue streams for AT, and Xenos is the obvious choice.
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Post by: xttz
Looks like no FW pre-orders at all this week. Disappointed they didn't follow up the Acastus with new Reaver weapons.
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Post by: zedmeister
xttz wrote:Looks like no FW pre-orders at all this week. Disappointed they didn't follow up the Acastus with new Reaver weapons.
They did this last time with Deeproot and the Halfling and actually did a saturday release. In this, I reckon we'll see Blood Bowl star players and maybe some Adeptus Titanicus weapon packs tomorrow
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Chopstick wrote:
GME is frankly...meant for Grand Master , it meant for people who have large budget that looking to expand their force.
Nonsense. The GME is intended for people who wanted a big box to open. It's clearly not an expansion product, because it was the first thing released for the game! Automatically Appended Next Post: zedmeister wrote: xttz wrote:Looks like no FW pre-orders at all this week. Disappointed they didn't follow up the Acastus with new Reaver weapons.
They did this last time with Deeproot and the Halfling and actually did a saturday release. In this, I reckon we'll see Blood Bowl star players and maybe some Adeptus Titanicus weapon packs tomorrow
Those were plastic kits, and thus Citadel releases, not Forge World.
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Post by: Albertorius
Well, regarding "Epic", I wonder how would Apocalypse work with Epic and AT minis? Maybe halving ranges and the like would work well enough... maybe even leaving them as-is would make them look more believable.
I have the Epic/AT minis and terrain, so I wonder if it would be too hard to get some players to test it.
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Post by: xttz
IMO just measure all distances with the same value in cm instead of inches. Would be close enough and saves any calculating mid-game.
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Post by: zedmeister
Deeproot (Forgeworld Resin) was released on a Saturday to coincide with the plastic (Citadel) Halfling release.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
My mistake; I forgot that treeman was resin.
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Post by: Binabik15
Maxime Pastourel had a blog article recently about playing the Imperial Knight: Renegade game with AT knights, doing the inches = cm swap as well. Seemed to work fine, so the same should go for Apocalypse.
Just...getting good Epic infantry and recent ranks is impossible unless you're one of those "I know a guy" types woth their fancy 3d printed stuff :( I'd literally buy hundreds and thousands of tiny doods! (And with 8mm Apocalypse rules more widely available than old Epic stuff I might get some of those 3rd party Not-Death Korps dudes and actually try my hand at it)
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Post by: Jack Flask
Deathwatch101 wrote: schoon wrote:
Also of interest - they mentioned that one of the new books would start seeing a more evident Chaos influence on Titans.
...and they opened the door to an eventual Xenos expansion, at least not in the seminars i have seen/been in, saying it would be in a slightly different period, though it's still far off.
I don't think they ever said that they were ruling out Xenos, more that they weren't focusing on it at the moment as there was a lot of stuff from the Heresy to cover first.
Once the Heresy era titans were all gone, it stands to reason that they would look at other revenue streams for AT, and Xenos is the obvious choice.
I also remember them saying somewhere that they picked the Heresy in part because it cut down on the number of different kits they'd have to produce at start.
I'm curious though if they'll eventually start putting out models/rules for Chaos specific titan/knight patterns as they move AT forwards through the Heresy and after?
I'd love to see the old Slaanesh super heavies come back along with Chaos refit weapon options for existing chassis.
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Post by: changemod
Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.
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Post by: Albertorius
xttz wrote:IMO just measure all distances with the same value in cm instead of inches. Would be close enough and saves any calculating mid-game.
Binabik15 wrote:Maxime Pastourel had a blog article recently about playing the Imperial Knight: Renegade game with AT knights, doing the inches = cm swap as well. Seemed to work fine, so the same should go for Apocalypse.
I might check that out. Gut feeling says that maybe regular ranges might make it look more believable.
Binabik15 wrote:Just...getting good Epic infantry and recent ranks is impossible unless you're one of those "I know a guy" types woth their fancy 3d printed stuff :( I'd literally buy hundreds and thousands of tiny doods! (And with 8mm Apocalypse rules more widely available than old Epic stuff I might get some of those 3rd party Not-Death Korps dudes and actually try my hand at it)
I don't know about that... Troublemaker games' late stuff is outstanding, for example, well worth the (low) price. I've also found that all that talk about Epic being 6mm and AT 8mm is... kind of hogwash, really. They look perfectly ok together:
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Post by: xttz
changemod wrote:Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.
Yes, FW staff time-travelled to 1988 to ensure the game they remade had lower production costs in 2018
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Post by: changemod
xttz wrote:changemod wrote:Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.
Yes, FW staff time-travelled to 1988 to ensure the game they remade had lower production costs in 2018
And I assume you’re completely unaware that designers at that time have gone on record that the original heresy-lore game was an excuse to do imperial vs imperial fights and make less models for the first release?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.
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Post by: gorgon
Deathwatch101 wrote: schoon wrote:
Also of interest - they mentioned that one of the new books would start seeing a more evident Chaos influence on Titans.
...and they opened the door to an eventual Xenos expansion, at least not in the seminars i have seen/been in, saying it would be in a slightly different period, though it's still far off.
I don't think they ever said that they were ruling out Xenos, more that they weren't focusing on it at the moment as there was a lot of stuff from the Heresy to cover first.
Once the Heresy era titans were all gone, it stands to reason that they would look at other revenue streams for AT, and Xenos is the obvious choice.
Yep. It's AT becoming Epic that they've consistently shot down. Xenos titans for AT will probably happen, but it has to be at least two (?) years away, and probably more. They have more Titan classes to release and then fallen versions too.
Jack Flask wrote:I'm curious though if they'll eventually start putting out models/rules for Chaos specific titan/knight patterns as they move AT forwards through the Heresy and after?
I'd love to see the old Slaanesh super heavies come back along with Chaos refit weapon options for existing chassis.
The old battle of Kado fluff specifically mentions Hell Knights. That book is probably the place where we start seeing that stuff.
changemod wrote:Labelling it as a Heresy game is entirely an excuse to only release one faction for now and pretend it’s two because you have two insignia choices, yes.
Fortunately, there's *plenty* of depth to the game with the existing Titan classes, various Knights, stratagems, Legio rules, new Titans and Legios to come. Chaos will come and xenos may too, but the game doesn't need to spam factions and units like 40K does to keep the gameplay interesting.
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Post by: changemod
Nostromodamus wrote:AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.
By that logic it’s not 6mm either, given that marines are 7 foot tall on average.
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Post by: Albertorius
It's "good enough", really
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Post by: Geifer
I am confident that the 8mm Marine I sculpted is in line with the 40k Marine I put next to my 40k Knight. At that size the difference between a 7mm and 8mm Marine comparing to a 6mm human is so marginal that it truly is close enough and terrain marketed as 6mm scale should be fine.
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Post by: Yodhrin
The fact is, despite the "8mm Marine" thing being correct, they're also on record as saying they have no intention of being more accurate than "1/4 the size of however big the 40K model is".
If you're intent on collecting things in a consistent scale, you're going to have to pick a scale - a proper one, not "Xmm" - and figure things out from there.
Based on the actual Titan models and the 8mm Marine number, I chose eventually to go with 1:265. If scale doesn't bother you that much, you should be fine using old Epic models until GW choose to do new Epic models, both will be "wrong", but both will look fine to anyone who doesn't care if they're "correct".
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Post by: Alpharius
 Albertorius wrote:Well, regarding "Epic", I wonder how would Apocalypse work with Epic and AT minis? Maybe halving ranges and the like would work well enough... maybe even leaving them as-is would make them look more believable.
I have the Epic/ AT minis and terrain, so I wonder if it would be too hard to get some players to test it.
That is a REALLY interesting idea!
I really do hope someone digs into that a bit more and lets us know if it would work!
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Post by: SamusDrake
Nostromodamus wrote:AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.
I've not done the measurements myself(sadly I no longer have the older epic stuff to compare with), but it is being sold as "8mm" by Wayland. Also, Warcradle have released scenery for the game( clearly designed for AT ) also using "8mm" in their descriptions on their site...
Not saying you're wrong, but merely that thats what they are going with. Unless of course, GW has said outright "Nope. Its 6mm.", but I've not read anything official to that effect, yet. I would ask them over email, but I've probably pestered them enough in recent times...
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Incidentally, is there any reason to buy two rules-sets if the wife and I are both going to be playing? I imagine a 2nd set of dice and consoles isn't a bad idea, but getting stuck with the extra, pricey, hardcover kind of feels inefficient.
Basically just trying to figure out if it is better to buy that, or the individual weapon/console packs? I suppose I could just photocopy the one set and laminate them...?
Ended up ordering the rules box and two of those Axiom Maniple bundles since we don't need/want the terrain.
I figured tomorrow i'll start ordering Knights slowly, over time, until we have a pool of a couple boxes of each to share?
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Post by: aka_mythos
 Alpharius wrote: Albertorius wrote:Well, regarding "Epic", I wonder how would Apocalypse work with Epic and AT minis? Maybe halving ranges and the like would work well enough... maybe even leaving them as-is would make them look more believable.
I have the Epic/ AT minis and terrain, so I wonder if it would be too hard to get some players to test it.
That is a REALLY interesting idea!
I really do hope someone digs into that a bit more and lets us know if it would work!
I really like this idea. One of the biggest problems I've had with Apocalypse over the years is how cramped it ends up being and that largely because most people can't scale up their table space... but playing it at a smaller scale you're able to have more tactical play and not just the standing around or charging straight forward.
It might be difficult for some, but it shouldn't be... rather than cutting ranges in half it might be simpler to just use all the same charts and whole numbers but when playing measure in centimeters. Crude, but simple.
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Post by: Yodhrin
SamusDrake wrote: Nostromodamus wrote:AT is not 8mm. This misconception stems from a statement that “space marines would be 8mm tall in AT”, what people forget is that space marines are 8’ tall compared to average 40k human height of 6’, which would translate to 6mm in AT. So really it’s a 6mm scale game.
I've not done the measurements myself(sadly I no longer have the older epic stuff to compare with), but it is being sold as "8mm" by Wayland. Also, Warcradle have released scenery for the game( clearly designed for AT ) also using "8mm" in their descriptions on their site...
Not saying you're wrong, but merely that thats what they are going with. Unless of course, GW has said outright "Nope. Its 6mm.", but I've not read anything official to that effect, yet. I would ask them over email, but I've probably pestered them enough in recent times...
From the horse's mouth:
"It's 8mm scale" stems from a single intro blurb on a WC article back around release time. The reality is, as per the image, it doesn't actually have a scale, because they've decided to just go forward with "1/4 40K size", and most of the 40K stuff isn't consistent. Personally I strongly disagree with his remark about height being a bad way to determine the scale because the proportions are distorted - it's the only way to derive a scale when the proportions are distorted, because it's the only dimension that could bear any relation to "reality". Having done the measurements, the Titans appear to be about 1:260-1:270, and that's consistent with an 8mm Marine, so 1:265 is what I'm going with when printing everything, so about 6.8mm for a human and just over 8mm for a Marine. Some of the older Epic stuff is already that size, at least for the humans, a lot of it isn't, same goes for third parties - in the end if you want it to be consistent the choice is between picking & choosing from what's available, or 3D printing everything on the Epic side of things.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I really want to play Chaos but if there's hope for bespoke spiky titan kits in the future, maybe I should build a loyalist Legio from my initial purchase and get proper spiky titans later...?
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Post by: SamusDrake
Glad to see Will Hayes agreeing with Will Hayes!
So the official scale of AT is actually 7mm, while old epic is 5.6mm. At best, tabletop game scales are merely a guideline for compatibility. Gotcha.
Right, now that we've sorted that out, lets back to the issue of Matt Hooper's bite radius issue... Automatically Appended Next Post: lord_blackfang wrote:I really want to play Chaos but if there's hope for bespoke spiky titan kits in the future, maybe I should build a loyalist Legio from my initial purchase and get proper spiky titans later...?
The titan kits( well, at least the Reaver and Hounds ) come with traitor and loyalist options. If you must have "hard core" chaos titans then just do some conversion work - cocktail sticks and the like!
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Post by: beast_gts
Pre-orders up on the NZ site. Acastus weapons seem under-pointed:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Loyalist Titans of Legend are:
– Ignis Ferrus
– Bellator Magno
– Dawn of Enlightenment
– Lucius Pretorian
– Iracundos
While the Traitors are:
– Hammer of Tyrants
– Penumbral Reaper
– Vestiti Ferrus
– Mantellum Fulmen
– Iben Faruk
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Post by: Yodhrin
SamusDrake wrote:Glad to see Will Hayes agreeing with Will Hayes!
So the official scale of AT is actually 7mm, while old epic is 5.6mm. At best, tabletop game scales are merely a guideline for compatibility. Gotcha.
Right, now that we've sorted that out, lets back to the issue of Matt Hooper's bite radius issue...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote:I really want to play Chaos but if there's hope for bespoke spiky titan kits in the future, maybe I should build a loyalist Legio from my initial purchase and get proper spiky titans later...?
The titan kits( well, at least the Reaver and Hounds ) come with traitor and loyalist options. If you must have "hard core" chaos titans then just do some conversion work - cocktail sticks and the like!
Hah! I chopped out several posts of me waffling on about being a scale-stickler between the two replies
On the "properly" Chaotic engines, I'm expecting something like the FW Chaos Knight kit at first, just new armour panels with a slightly warped/spiky appearance(whether they end up as plastic or resin, who knows). The really proper stuff like god-specific daemon-possessed stuff will probably take a whole longer, surely.
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Post by: SamusDrake
That can't be right. Considering an Acastus can give a Warhound a hard time, he costs only half the points. For the same price of a Warhound( two Acastus ) we can literally go Reaver-hunting...
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Post by: beast_gts
SamusDrake wrote:That can't be right. Considering an Acastus can give a Warhound a hard time, he costs only half the points. For the same price of a Warhound( two Acastus ) we can literally go Reaver-hunting...
Yeah, they do seem to be badly under-pointed (and there's no reason to take a 'normal' Porphyrion over an Asterius).
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Post by: Crimson
SamusDrake wrote:That can't be right. Considering an Acastus can give a Warhound a hard time, he costs only half the points. For the same price of a Warhound( two Acastus ) we can literally go Reaver-hunting...
Isn't this written by FW's rule team? So it sounds perfectly right.
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Post by: crnaguja
So, some genius thought that 16 potential hits with str 9 at 48" for 200 is a good idea? Warhound with twin megabolters is 200 points, and it spits 12 shots at range 20". Acastus seems to be quite a bit underpointed
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Post by: Mandragola
Preorders are up down under. Here's the card for Acastus knights.
I came up with a list that I think might work. Comes in at 1740.
Lance 1
4 Acastus Porphyrons 370
2 Acastus Porphyrons 190
2 Acastus Porphyrons 190
Lance 2
2 Acastus Porphyrons 190
Acastus Porphyron 100
Acastus Porphyron 100
Lance 3
Acastus Porphyron 100
Acastus Porphyron 100
Acastus Porphyron 100
Lance 4
Acastus Porphyron 100
Acastus Porphyron 100
Acastus Porphyron 100
I guess there could be an argument for mixing in some Asterions, but why bother really? You'll generally just table people in turn one anyway. Probably go House Donar for the stratagem to make your lance of 4 have -2 strength on all attacks against it in turn 1, so that you don't have to worry about the enemy shooting back and stuff.
What a joke.
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Post by: Chopstick
They're overstated, Rule Writer boost the weapon's stat through the roof without comparing them to their 40k/30k counterpart.
I can see some favoritism here.
Castigator knight on the other hand, ugh..
And Questoris Stormspear Rocket Pod is overpriced lol.
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Post by: gorgon
Mandragola, I saw your list and...I gotta have more Porphyrion.
I just don’t understand how that’s 100 points in this game.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Yeah, also, why are the two weapon options the same price? One is a straight upgrade over the other (Same range, same dice, better strength, sometimes bigger blast vs sometimes +1 to hit?) even ignoring that the secondary weapon is better too.
Someone screwed up and released beta rules here.
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Post by: Thargrim
Well the original rules writer for this game left the company. Whoever they hired to take up the reins probably has less a clear understanding of the game. That is what worries me going forward, and not just for this game but any kind of update to blood bowl or specialist games in general. I'm also not convinced the specialist games branch has the resources to do extensive playtesting at the same level as the main GW studio.
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Post by: Chopstick
This isn't something that require deep knowledge of the game, most gun's attack stat follow their 40k/30k profile, while the range stat is their 30k/ 40k counterpart divided by 3. Except for the Gatling weapons, which is a mess.
Ionstorm rocket pod is not a rapid firing weapon nor does it fire out 6 shot while the model itself only have 5 ready warheads
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Post by: SamusDrake
Would anyone agree that a single Acastus should be closer to 150 pts?
Not jumping to a conclusion, but I'm now wondering if they should have bothered with Knights for the first year and maybe, instead, introduced a smaller support-focused titan. Personally I like the Knights and argued the case for them a while back, but for the interests of Titanicus itself a forth titan would have not only made the game more affordable for getting started, but also opened up far more options for maniples. Up until this point, we've had two Knight types(both are just as good for suicidal melee attacks) without available options and out-of-stock terminals, and an initially redundant expansion. And now we have Knight players rubbing their hands with glee thanks to the miracle of Acastus-spam!
Ah dear. Well, I'm just glad I have two games to use the minis with, because as a strict Titanicus player I would be going up the wall.
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Post by: Mendi Warrior
The Acastus command terminals and dices are available from third parties, with typical discounts (which is great!).
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