Kanluwen wrote: It's extremely strange that the Goliath was swapped to the Achilles but the Iconward was left in. There was some speculation that the Iconward might get swapped out for something else(Kelermorph) but it seems to not be the case!
Clearly the Truck and Rockgrinder are about to receive big buffs in PA then.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Two ork mek shops with a special detachment requiring 2-3 that allows one of the mek shops to be used on two vehicles at once, once per game. This will then be immediately errata'd to the ability being unusable round 1.
Mek workshops have a major advantage over falcons and vipers - you can use them as terrain
Kanluwen wrote: It's extremely strange that the Goliath was swapped to the Achilles but the Iconward was left in. There was some speculation that the Iconward might get swapped out for something else(Kelermorph) but it seems to not be the case!
Clearly the Truck and Rockgrinder are about to receive big buffs in PA then.
I'm really confused what happened to this box, when they first mentioned it what is practically a year ago now, it seemed imminent for launch. The swap of 1 unit might be to reduce profit margin or lower cost, but the army is so expensive to buy into that I gave up on a cults army when the box didn't appear.
I'm really confused what happened to this box, when they first mentioned it what is practically a year ago now, it seemed imminent for launch. The swap of 1 unit might be to reduce profit margin or lower cost, but the army is so expensive to buy into that I gave up on a cults army when the box didn't appear.
I think it might be a matter of sprues and box space. Most of the start collecting boxes have around 4 unit sprues (2 for troop, 2 for "big thing") and a character, while this one is going to have 6 unit sprues and a character. The two sprues for the Ridgerunner use up the same space as one sprue for the Goliath truck, ergo having a Ridgerunner instead helps keep the box at a manageable size.
It should still be a good box for getting duplicates of. Both troops are solid, Iconwards are useful to have (extras are good in Apocalypse) and you can field up to 9 Ridgerunners in an army if inclined (more viable at their new cost). As-is I've been running a squad of 3 and an Alphus as an anti-armor module with good results the last couple outings, so being able to pick up some extras along with troops is good by me.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Two ork mek shops with a special detachment requiring 2-3 that allows one of the mek shops to be used on two vehicles at once, once per game. This will then be immediately errata'd to the ability being unusable round 1.
Mek workshops have a major advantage over falcons and vipers - you can use them as terrain
wrecked falcon & viper would make nice terrain pieces!
Several of the IG units in that picture have orange / white markings that match the Tau nearby. Does that mean they're going to let guardsmen play as Tau auxiliaries now?
xttz wrote: Several of the IG units in that picture have orange / white markings that match the Tau nearby. Does that mean they're going to let guardsmen play as Tau auxiliaries now?
They're also fighting the Tau in that pic, so I doubt it.
xttz wrote: Several of the IG units in that picture have orange / white markings that match the Tau nearby. Does that mean they're going to let guardsmen play as Tau auxiliaries now?
That color scheme is already present in the codex so i think it’s half coincidence half gw using the minis they already have.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Two ork mek shops with a special detachment requiring 2-3 that allows one of the mek shops to be used on two vehicles at once, once per game. This will then be immediately errata'd to the ability being unusable round 1.
Mek workshops have a major advantage over falcons and vipers - you can use them as terrain
wrecked falcon & viper would make nice terrain pieces!
Jidmah wrote: Storm Troopers have their rules. I seriously doubt they'll get any more than what other regiments get.
I mean, I'd assume they would actually get what other Regiments get:
Actual rules for their Regiments rather than just a generic catch-all. Militarum Tempestus had a list of 14 "major" Regiments(of which, it's entirely possible some no longer exist thanks to the timeskip), 6 Warlord Traits(one of which, Grenadier was absolute trash tier: twin-linking frags or kraks thrown by your warlord), and 6 unique Orders(one twin-linked, one gave Preferred Enemy, one gave Crusader, one gave Fleet, one turned the hotshots into weapons with Sniper and Pinning but couldn't charge and could only make one shot each, and the last one targeted a vehicle or monster and gave Rending) that were tied to the Tempestus book.
There were no Relics though.
If I had to make a rough prediction of what we'll see?
"Make Your Own" Regiment, Sept, and Brood rules with Relics and Warlord Traits while Tempestus get a refresh of what they had in their book along with Relics.
The tempestus book was playing the game on hard mode for sure as none of their units were good when it dropped. They are worlds better now even after nerfs to reserves and point hikes on their transports.
Maybe this will give them back some glory ? I am patiently excited and hope to see some good stuff for the guard and tempestus in this book.
Kanluwen wrote: It's extremely strange that the Goliath was swapped to the Achilles but the Iconward was left in. There was some speculation that the Iconward might get swapped out for something else(Kelermorph) but it seems to not be the case!
Clearly the Truck and Rockgrinder are about to receive big buffs in PA then.
I'm really confused what happened to this box, when they first mentioned it what is practically a year ago now, it seemed imminent for launch. The swap of 1 unit might be to reduce profit margin or lower cost, but the army is so expensive to buy into that I gave up on a cults army when the box didn't appear.
They swapped the goliath for the ridge runner because the goliath comes on an absolutely bonkers set of frames and eats way more space or at least that would be my guess.
Some of the SC boxes are less expensive aren't they? Like £55rrp instead of £60. I hope this one is £55. The ridge runner looks a fair bit punier than the Goliath to me, though only £5rrp less expensive.
I just did the numbers and i don’t know why some are complaining about the genestealer cult box, full value of everything inside is 97,5£ so it doesn’t matter if it is 55£ or 60 it’s one heck of a saving. For comparison with the astra militarum one you save 20£ and you have to take the comissar that no one wants.
Any kind of support for tempestus would be nice -rules or models.
Even just a blister hq would be nice to break up the line.
I would even buy a flying guy with bazooka, or whatever GW is up to these days.
Fayric wrote: Any kind of support for tempestus would be nice -rules or models.
Even just a blister hq would be nice to break up the line.
I would even buy a flying guy with bazooka, or whatever GW is up to these days.
You may be joking but seeing how tempestus need a fast attack choice to fill brigades (along with heavy support) flying bazooka guy would be more than welcome XD
Kaneda88 wrote: I just did the numbers and i don’t know why some are complaining about the genestealer cult box, full value of everything inside is 97,5£ so it doesn’t matter if it is 55£ or 60 it’s one heck of a saving. For comparison with the astra militarum one you save 20£ and you have to take the comissar that no one wants.
I think the issue is they bundled the iconward in loads of other places so few people want one, plus the ridgerunner isn't deemed a great unit. Top it off with the box contents in the codex having the bigger vehicles in as well it feels a bit cheeky perhaps?
Fayric wrote: Any kind of support for tempestus would be nice -rules or models.
Even just a blister hq would be nice to break up the line.
I would even buy a flying guy with bazooka, or whatever GW is up to these days.
You may be joking but seeing how tempestus need a fast attack choice to fill brigades (along with heavy support) flying bazooka guy would be more than welcome XD
well space marines got a flying guy with a heavy weapon, admech looks to be getting one, flying guys with bazooka's DOOOES seem to be a trend!
Agamemnon2 wrote: gak, just give every army other than the basic Imperial Guard some rough riders, why not. Genestealers and AdMech already have them, after all.
Well, while some IG rough riders would be cool, Guard has more than twice as many separate units (many building multiple kits) in the webstore than AdMech and GSC taken together, not to mention far more datasheets and variety in the Codex than both those other books taken together.
And that's not even counting the insanely deep pool of units/models IG can draw on from FW, which exceeds the units/models available for all Xenos 10+ times over.
Unlike the bloat of Marines, this is shrinking and expanding factions in a healthy fashion IMO.
That's actually one of the best value SC sets I've seen. No new GSC player would be remiss in buying 3.
Leave the standard bearer as a standard bearer in one.
Convert the standard bearer to a Primus in another.
Convert the standard bearer to a Kelermorph in the third.
Heck, maybe get four. that is exactly the box GSC need as a building block to their army. The iconward is awesome for this, because he can be easily subsumed into the acolyte box if needed and you can use one of the other bodies to convert more HQs.
Agamemnon2 wrote: gak, just give every army other than the basic Imperial Guard some rough riders, why not. Genestealers and AdMech already have them, after all.
Well, while some IG rough riders would be cool, Guard has more than twice as many separate units (many building multiple kits) in the webstore than AdMech and GSC taken together, not to mention far more datasheets and variety in the Codex than both those other books taken together.
And that's not even counting the insanely deep pool of units/models IG can draw on from FW, which exceeds the units/models available for all Xenos 10+ times over.
Unlike the bloat of Marines, this is shrinking and expanding factions in a healthy fashion IMO.
That deep pool of FW has gotten a lot shallower in recent years, and I expect it will eventually drain entirely. At the time of writing there's still 51 FW products available for them, including books, bundles and the like. The range has certainly much diminished from its glory days. On the plastics front, the presence of so many multikits does warp the numbers a bit, since there's IIRC 10 different builds from the Baneblade box and all of them have separate webstore entries.
But no, I don't actually begrudge AM and GC getting new units that much. I just find it amusing that new Rough Riders have been something that's been talked about by IG players on and off since 1998 or so, and now they've officially been squatted while similar units pop up for two unrelated factions. For GSC's mobile insurgency schtick they were at least a plausible design path to go down.
xttz wrote: Any confirmation yet if this SC set is £60 like the other recent ones?
We'll usually see the prices on Mondays or Tuesdays. We haven't seen them yet.
Previews-wise? We'll see a Psychic Awakening short story today, the first preview of The Greater Good today and then we'll see them through the week.
I'm expecting to see four previews--Guard, Tempestus, Genestealer Cult, Tau and not necessarily in that order.
xttz wrote: Any confirmation yet if this SC set is £60 like the other recent ones?
We'll usually see the prices on Mondays or Tuesdays. We haven't seen them yet.
Previews-wise? We'll see a Psychic Awakening short story today, the first preview of The Greater Good today and then we'll see them through the week.
I'm expecting to see four previews--Guard, Tempestus, Genestealer Cult, Tau and not necessarily in that order.
We've seen the prices for the new AT stuff, so retailers have the details now. I was asking in case someone had the 40k ones and didn't post them because they were unremarkable.
That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
It would be really cool to see Gue'vesa rules, but I feel like the "rules" part of this PA book will most likely conveniently take place after the purging.
still, this made me wish I still had my Vostroyans so I could make a custom mission to play out this battle.
Stuffing her in stasis so she can 'keep alive' the teachings of another commander is really bizarre.
If that's their main concern... maybe she should teach at the Tau stealth academy? Or some such thing? That's generally how you pass on command and leadership strategies. Putting the only person who knows them on ice seems counter productive. [And she's the only one who knows them..?]
Not really impressed with the dispersed fusion blasters, but I do like the longer range on the high output variant.
I thought it might be a bit much to hope for that she'd get the generic <SEPT> keyword but as I'm likely to run her ina Sa'cea detachment she wouldn't lose too much anyway.
Voss wrote: Stuffing her in stasis so she can 'keep alive' the teachings of another commander is really bizarre.
If that's they're main concern... maybe she should teach at the Tau stealth academy? Or some such thing? That's generally how you pass on command and leadership strategies. Putting the only person who knows them on ice seems counter productive. [And she's the only one who knows them..?]
She's not remotely the only member of the Fire Caste to train under Puretide. O'Kais, O'Shova and O'Shaserra were just the best three.
Voss wrote: Stuffing her in stasis so she can 'keep alive' the teachings of another commander is really bizarre.
If that's they're main concern... maybe she should teach at the Tau stealth academy? Or some such thing? That's generally how you pass on command and leadership strategies. Putting the only person who knows them on ice seems counter productive. [And she's the only one who knows them..?]
Puretide had multiple students, Farsight and Shadowsun being only the most prominent two. They also downloaded the contents of his brain before death and used it with an AI and a hologram to carry on teaching.
the_scotsman wrote: That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
I like the short story, really good.
But a couple of questions to people with Tau knowledge.
Spoiler:
Do they have a habit of doing that to their allies? I don’t really remember much of this, ore that they take anyone in.
Was it just because of what he said, the slip of the tongue?
I mean they killed all the Kroot too, so it can’t have just been an imperial ‘superstition’ that the Tau mentions..
the_scotsman wrote: That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
I like the short story, really good.
But a couple of questions to people with Tau knowledge.
Spoiler:
Do they have a habit of doing that to their allies? I don’t really remember much of this, ore that they take anyone in.
Was it just because of what he said, the slip of the tongue?
I mean they killed all the Kroot too, so it can’t have just been an imperial ‘superstition’ that the Tau mentions..
Could be fear of genestealer infestation (though they wouldn't be fighting the cultists if that were true)
But they definitely just had the protagonist turn the greater good into a superstitious religion. He just subbed in the new words and didn't change his thinking at all. [He was doing the mental equivalent of 'science curse you' at several points]
Unclear why they'd
Spoiler:
kill the kroot.
It ties into the previous story, but doesn't give any whys or wherefors.
Voss wrote: Stuffing her in stasis so she can 'keep alive' the teachings of another commander is really bizarre.
If that's their main concern... maybe she should teach at the Tau stealth academy? Or some such thing? That's generally how you pass on command and leadership strategies. Putting the only person who knows them on ice seems counter productive. [And she's the only one who knows them..?]
Well, they wanna keep the character around despite having moved the timeline forward a couple hundred years since 7th Ed. now with the big rift-thing, primaris being introduced and going out into the universe, etc.., etc..
And Shadowsun doesn't have Farsight's magic/daemon sword to simply give her longevity.
Voss wrote: Ok, fine. But the article literally says that she is put in stasis to keep his teachings alive.
Upon the death of Commander Puretide, O’Shaserra was placed into stasis so that his teachings could live on for future generations.
So, the question is still 'why do that?'
The article paraphrases badly. It's to keep the best students of the undisputed best tactician the empire has ever had available for when needed, like when an Ork Waagh invades.
For the same reason the Imperium uses rejuve treatments on important people. To keep them around.
Except rejuve actually keeps them around, not puts them in a box where they can't teach or do war.
Sunny Side Up has what's probably the actual explanation- keeping a special character in game (and not retire them), but fluffwise its rather gibberish.
the_scotsman wrote: That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
I like the short story, really good.
But a couple of questions to people with Tau knowledge.
Spoiler:
Do they have a habit of doing that to their allies? I don’t really remember much of this, ore that they take anyone in.
Was it just because of what he said, the slip of the tongue?
I mean they killed all the Kroot too, so it can’t have just been an imperial ‘superstition’ that the Tau mentions..
Could be fear of genestealer infestation (though they wouldn't be fighting the cultists if that were true)
But they definitely just had the protagonist turn the greater good into a superstitious religion. He just subbed in the new words and didn't change his thinking at all. [He was doing the mental equivalent of 'science curse you' at several points]
Unclear why they'd
Spoiler:
kill the kroot.
It ties into the previous story, but doesn't give any whys or wherefors.
The tau have almost no presence in the warp but the same cannot be said of their allies, i’m betting those guys were fourth sphere survivors who saw the warp and the entity of the greater good created among others by the gue’vesa.
the_scotsman wrote: That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
I like the short story, really good.
But a couple of questions to people with Tau knowledge.
Spoiler:
Do they have a habit of doing that to their allies? I don’t really remember much of this, ore that they take anyone in.
Was it just because of what he said, the slip of the tongue?
I mean they killed all the Kroot too, so it can’t have just been an imperial ‘superstition’ that the Tau mentions..
Spoiler:
It is building off of the fluff from the codex. The fourth sphere expansion fleet got sucked into the warp when the all turned on their new FTL drives at the same time. Some time later, they got out and got messages back home via the startide nexus, a wormhole that the 5th sphere expansion fleet then followed through.
The 4th sphere expansion had only Tau survivors, and they will brutally backstab/massacre non-tau including allies. The higher ups in the Tau empire disapprove, but not enough to put any effective punishments or controls in place.
Hopefully in the book we get more detail to explain this, presumably the survivors purge anyone they think might be psychic or turn into a deamon. Or maybe they are all possesed by Khorne. Or both.
the_scotsman wrote: That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
I like the short story, really good.
But a couple of questions to people with Tau knowledge.
Spoiler:
Do they have a habit of doing that to their allies? I don’t really remember much of this, ore that they take anyone in.
Was it just because of what he said, the slip of the tongue?
I mean they killed all the Kroot too, so it can’t have just been an imperial ‘superstition’ that the Tau mentions..
This is a new plot development for the Tau survivors of the 4th Sphere Expansion attempt. Long story short, basically they opened a giant warp tear that sucked in their fleet and they were trapped for some time in the warp, where the psychic auxiliaries of their fleet (ie., pretty much all of them, including humans) drew daemons from the warp and I presume there was lot of possession and f'ed up warp shenanigans going on before the surviving Tau were spat out by what is implied to the nascent warp entity of the collective psychic gestalt of the Greater Good created by Tau auxiliaries like humans. So this understandably traumatized the remnants of the 4th Sphere Expansion, who now basically keep all auxiliaries at arm's length and only trust fellow T'au. They are more or less the first crack in the Tau's naivete regarding to their all inclusive approach to the Greater Good.
The Fire Warriors that killed the auxiliaries were almost definitely 4th sphere survivors. Events similar to what happened in this short story are actually called out in the codex as something that the leadership in the Tau empire is concerned about and they basically are court marshaling any fire warrior caught doing this to their allies on the battlefield.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
the_scotsman wrote: That story was awesome. God, how much I've missed reading a story without a seemingly omniscient, invulnerable protagonist.
I like the short story, really good.
But a couple of questions to people with Tau knowledge.
Spoiler:
Do they have a habit of doing that to their allies? I don’t really remember much of this, ore that they take anyone in.
Was it just because of what he said, the slip of the tongue?
I mean they killed all the Kroot too, so it can’t have just been an imperial ‘superstition’ that the Tau mentions..
Basically, the fourth sphere expansion disappeared into the warp, beta testing the Taus new longrange warp drives.
The fifth sphere (Shadowsun) was sent to find them, and they brought along their usual kroot and human allies.
They find the fourth sphere and the fourth sphere guys start shooting up all the non-Tau. that was hinted in the earlier story, and likely what happened here.
It's interesting that The Eight are called out as getting datasheets as a preorder thing for the book, I wonder if something ends up happening with the Fourth Sphere survivors going over to the Farsight Enclaves?
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Sounds more likely they're trying to write out the Gue'vesa so they don't have to produce models for them.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Sounds more likely they're trying to write out the Gue'vesa so they don't have to produce models for them.
Well they never bothered before... I read it as the Kroot killing the humans.
Sad really - so many cool possibilities for new models and conversions in the Tau lore.........and they make another Shadowsun model.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries. Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Sounds more likely they're trying to write out the Gue'vesa so they don't have to produce models for them.
Well they never bothered before... I read it as the Kroot killing the humans.
Sad really - so many cool possibilities for new models and conversions in the Tau lore.........and they make another Shadowsun model.
Auxiliaries being pushed to the background so they can produce more EPIC HUGE Gundams is something I'm not big on. A coalition of xenos races was one of the Tau's better hooks. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Kroot end up being filtered out into their own, standalone army.
..one of the things i liked most about the Tau was the possibility of gue'vesa, and a revitalization of multiple races in the Tau. frankly the most recent battlesuit they employ are not things id ever get.. they look to wrong to me.
is this story an isolated incident, or is this human purging going to be far more common?
oh well, first steps to dissapointment and all that...
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Sounds more likely they're trying to write out the Gue'vesa so they don't have to produce models for them.
Well they never bothered before... I read it as the Kroot killing the humans.
Sad really - so many cool possibilities for new models and conversions in the Tau lore.........and they make another Shadowsun model.
Given the way it was talking about the kroot I think they were being gunned down by Tau as well, but it's pretty ambiguously worded.
Hopefully the 4th sphere is just giving players a lore reason to not run auxiliary forces and not the new norm so GW doesn't have to worry about ever doing more auxiliary forces. The suits get boring after a while.
xttz wrote: Any confirmation yet if this SC set is £60 like the other recent ones?
We'll usually see the prices on Mondays or Tuesdays. We haven't seen them yet.
Previews-wise? We'll see a Psychic Awakening short story today, the first preview of The Greater Good today and then we'll see them through the week.
I'm expecting to see four previews--Guard, Tempestus, Genestealer Cult, Tau and not necessarily in that order.
My online supplier just posted
Start Collecting! Genestealer Cults - £60 RRP - Due 15/02/20
pretty great level of discount overall (even if I like the Goliath better than the Ridgerunner)
Assuming all the prices are accurate(I'm thinking they are, but still--doesn't hurt to make this clear): Start Collecting GSC would be the same price as Tau or Skitarii, meaning $95(USD). Shadowsun will be the same price as Junith Erita, meaning $45(USD). Kelermorph will be the same price as the Nexos, meaning $30(USD).
GSC comes out to $160 for the items inside, meaning you save $65(USD).
Imateria wrote: Not really impressed with the dispersed fusion blasters, but I do like the longer range on the high output variant.
I thought it might be a bit much to hope for that she'd get the generic <SEPT> keyword but as I'm likely to run her ina Sa'cea detachment she wouldn't lose too much anyway.
Dispersed ones seem a bit crap to be honest. The bonus you get from having two shots is lost once you take into account that the focused one has twice the chance of wounding T4 - and if we start talking about T5 models then the extra damage comes into play.
Back to the drawing board Fio'la!
For 1 CP it makes a lot of the weapons Tau have pretty strong. Ion-Hammerheads become a lot more reliable and for the Yhavara it becomes absolutely deadly.
It's looks good on paper but less so in practice, imho.
This new strat lets a single model (non-Titanic, so no Stormsurge, Taunar, etc) with Heavy weapons with a random number of shots shoot the maximum possible number, for 1 CP (ie Heavy D6 -> Heavy 6 for a turn).
Now:
- the Ghostkeel only has the Fusion Collider (Heavy D3) that fits the bill, but making it Heavy 3 for a turn seems to me like a poor investment of a CP. Poor BS and only one random Heavy weapon on the model;
- the Riptide only has the Ion Accelerator (Heavy D6), but one of the effects of the Nova Reactor abilty already allows it to shoot as if it were Heavy 6. This strat is situational if you need the 3++ and you have at least 2 Riptides (otherwise, just use the Branched Nova Charge strat);
- the Hammerhead has the Ion Cannon that may work nicely with this: Heavy D6 8 -2 3 becomes Heavy 6. Juicy, but Hammerheads see little play thanks to no Saviour Protocols;
- the FW R'Varna has two Heavy 3D3 6 -2 3 guns, so shooting 18 shots is not bad at all. Problem: even if it looks like a Riptide, it has no FLY so it can get tagged into combat;
- the FW Y'Vahra is where the fun is with this strat: one Heavy 3D6 6 -2 3 flamer (auto-hits) and one Heavy 3D3 10 -3 3 mw-dealing weapon that instantly become Heavy 18 and Heavy 9 respectively... But it's a 400+ points model with relatively short range. We're not seeing many Y'Vahras on the field not because it doesn't put out enough damage, but because it's expensive, relatively fragile and easily screened out.
I can see this strat being useful for the big FW suits but it's not game-breaking imho. If it helps in shaking up the Tau meta consisting in Drones, Commanders and Riptides, it's a welcome addition.
Auxiliaries being pushed to the background so they can produce more EPIC HUGE Gundams is something I'm not big on. A coalition of xenos races was one of the Tau's better hooks. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Kroot end up being filtered out into their own, standalone army.
Or filtered out entirely (officially or not). Naked t3 infantry that are worse at shooting and aren't notably better in CC don't have any place in 8th edition. Even as cannon-fodder they don't really work, as tau are relatively cheap and get the various army buffs innately. The only salvageable kroot are the dogs, and only because nothing else in the tau army does the same thing.
I can see this strat being useful for the big FW suits but it's not game-breaking imho. If it helps in shaking up the Tau meta consisting in Drones, Commanders and Riptides, it's a welcome addition.
This. The FW suits are so expensive that even with the strat they aren't that powerful, useful, but is it better than having triptides? The FW suits are both over 400 points once given drones and support systems, which puts them at the same cost as a crusader with 10 fewer wounds and a lower toughness. The FW suits would need something like an 100 points drop in order to be great and to see use frequently.
I can see this strat being useful for the big FW suits but it's not game-breaking imho. If it helps in shaking up the Tau meta consisting in Drones, Commanders and Riptides, it's a welcome addition.
This. The FW suits are so expensive that even with the strat they aren't that powerful, useful, but is it better than having triptides? The FW suits are both over 400 points once given drones and support systems, which puts them at the same cost as a crusader with 10 fewer wounds and a lower toughness. The FW suits would need something like an 100 points drop in order to be great and to see use frequently.
Exactly. A Bork'an Y'Varha gets two super duper weapons but with ranges 18" and 14", respectively. It still has BS4+ (it matters on only one of the two weapons), T7, W14 (13 since it suffers a wound to shoot, and decreases even further every turn), 2+/5++ and it needs a ton of Drones. I love mine and I try to play it whenever possible (also because of how much it costed me), but it's increadibly easy to be played around and it's a massive bullet magnet. Unless I commit 15-20 Drones to protect it, it never lasts beyond Turn 2.
We're talking about 413+150/200 points, almost one third of a 2000 point list.
xttz wrote: Any confirmation yet if this SC set is £60 like the other recent ones?
We'll usually see the prices on Mondays or Tuesdays. We haven't seen them yet.
Previews-wise? We'll see a Psychic Awakening short story today, the first preview of The Greater Good today and then we'll see them through the week.
I'm expecting to see four previews--Guard, Tempestus, Genestealer Cult, Tau and not necessarily in that order.
My online supplier just posted
Start Collecting! Genestealer Cults - £60 RRP - Due 15/02/20
pretty great level of discount overall (even if I like the Goliath better than the Ridgerunner)
Yeah, objectively though the Ridgerunner is a much better piece. Goliaths are trash, neophytes are much better just run on foot with one of the two defensive cults.
Ridgerunners are the best ranged antitank GSC have full stop after the point drops.
I can see this strat being useful for the big FW suits but it's not game-breaking imho. If it helps in shaking up the Tau meta consisting in Drones, Commanders and Riptides, it's a welcome addition.
This. The FW suits are so expensive that even with the strat they aren't that powerful, useful, but is it better than having triptides? The FW suits are both over 400 points once given drones and support systems, which puts them at the same cost as a crusader with 10 fewer wounds and a lower toughness. The FW suits would need something like an 100 points drop in order to be great and to see use frequently.
Exactly. A Bork'an Y'Varha gets two super duper weapons but with ranges 18" and 14", respectively. It still has BS4+ (it matters on only one of the two weapons), T7, W14 (13 since it suffers a wound to shoot, and decreases even further every turn), 2+/5++ and it needs a ton of Drones. I love mine and I try to play it whenever possible (also because of how much it costed me), but it's increadibly easy to be played around and it's a massive bullet magnet. Unless I commit 15-20 Drones to protect it, it never lasts beyond Turn 2.
We're talking about 413+150/200 points, almost one third of a 2000 point list.
Just put of curiosity from someone that once wanted to do 100% Suits, how are Hazards right now? Never seen them once this edition.
the Tau strat is only broken if they have a unit that's low in point cost with a LOT of heavy d6 weapons.
that said this kinda annoys me as I'd rather see GW buffing weapons with low shot rate and a variable damage. A Lascannon needs buffing more then an assault cannon, to use a marine analogy
A unit of 10 Aberrants costs as much as a V'vahra and could barely touch it before. Now it just get's vaped in overwatch, even if the Tau army never actually even uses their shooting phase.
A unit of 10 Aberrants costs as much as a V'vahra and could barely touch it before. Now it just get's vaped in overwatch, even if the Tau army never actually even uses their shooting phase.
This is dumb.
sure except thats what I mean, the only shooting that needs a buffing are single shot random damage weapons. If GW found ways to encourage people to take Heavy 1, Damage 1D6 weapons over heavy 1d6 damage 1 weapons, it'd be better for the game over all because suddenly the dedicated anti-armor units aren't also scary anti-infantry weapons that will delete entire squads in over watch
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That new strat is superior to the Bork'an one in every way, and everyone can use it, and it costs the same.
How do they not see that?
I mean... its always going to be power creep. Although in this case its easy because the Bork'an stratagem is kind of crap.
As people have said, its going to be obnoxious on forgeworld suits, can see that being potentially faq-ed out. Not sure I'm persuaded on "its a lot of points". Yes but the Y'Vahra is already obnoxious even if its fragile. Mass drones is a thing.
Ignoring Forgeworld, as GW tend to, guaranteeing 6 shots on Ion Cannon Longstrike is nice and all - but hardly seems game breaking.
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Is it 'lol at competitive players' or 'competitive players don't play Borkan anyway?' [dunno if that's true or not, but it doesn't really matter since a GW facebook drone isn't going to have a finger on the pulse of society anyway]
Though this doesn't actually hurt them in any meaningful way. It just makes their strat redundant.
It might matter if the game capped the number of stratagems you can use, preselecting before the game (and you had to take your subfaction strat), but since they're limited only by the number written (and a lot of them are hot trash anyway), its still just an upgrade for all Tau, including Borkan.
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
It's definitely a middle finger to Bor'kan players, but at the same time it's nice to have a stratgem of that sort that will actually be useful whilst the Bor'kan one remains almost useless.
It's also worth remembering that it'll only really be useful on very select things, mainly a Riptide with Ion Accelerator (and only really if you have 2 as the Branched Nova Charge strat allowes you to get the flat 6 on the weapon whilst also going for the invuln boost or the movement boost), the Ghostkheels main weapons, Hammerheads Ion Cannon and the Sun Shark's Ion Rifles. It gets a lot more bonkers on FW models but even then those tend to be extremely expensive to start with (Tigershark with Ion and Skyspear Missiles, Y'Vhara and R'Varna, all get massive number of shots but are all over 400pts).
Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Haaaaa… Excellent stuff. Youi sir deserve an exalt!
I really enjoyed the short story. Was quite well written, certainly one of the better ones.
However, I have a terrible feeling its GW way to build the narrative of "a great clenainsg" and make tau delete all of their allies, so that they can get rid of the kroot/vespids products and sadly we can forget any notion of auxiliaries or cool new xenos species... It would be more tacticool gundams Sales for the sales god..
I am usually reluctant to complain or comment on abilities without the full context of the codex, but this does look like power creep when compared to the Bor'kan Sept Strat.
AnonAmbientLight wrote: I am usually reluctant to complain or comment on abilities without the full context of the codex, but this does look like power creep when compared to the Bor'kan Sept Strat.
Honestly the Bor’kan sept Strat is mostly useless i wouldn’t count it as codex creep, there are some stratagems that just aren’t worth much (or anything like the valhalla one from the guard codex)
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
I think thats the point - these Tau are not behaving like Tau....the reason could be that they have been altered by their experiences, the warp or a mixture of the two......or something else. Maybe they have not Etheral guding them either or he/she has gone insane.....which could also be interesting..
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
I think thats the point - these Tau are not behaving like Tau....the reason could be that they have been altered by their experiences, the warp or a mixture of the two......or something else. Maybe they have not Etheral guding them either or he/she has gone insane.....which could also be interesting..
Here comes lexicanum to rescue! I think it's kinda obvious what Shadowsun's story is going to be considering psychic awakening is dealing with past events. Also I read it as the 4th sphere T'au murdering the kroot, the sentence is badly worded.
Survivors of the Fourth Sphere continue to have a dark reputation. Its contingents display a brutality and xenophobia uncharacteristic of the Tau. Tau of the Fourth Sphere believe that the abomination that saved them within the Warp was formed from the auxiliaries psychic perceptions of the Greater Good, and can only be slain with their extermination.[4] During the Fifth Sphere, Human prisoners were massacred and Auxiliaries were intentionally sacrificed in battle by Fourth Sphere survivors. The Massacre of the Dul'un Lakes and the Eight Days of Infamy are the most famous episodes from this controversy. Eventually, Shadowsun and the Ethereal Council disciplined the Fourth Sphere commanders with a ritual punishment known as the Malk'la before they were returned to the ranks or sent back to the empire for re-assimilation. After a massacre and bloody Kroot uprising upon the colony of Ky'san, all auxiliaries were removed from contingents of Fourth Sphere Tau.[1]
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Isn't that the definition of balance? It's slightly worse than the command re-roll, but has more utility in being able to be combined with the command re-roll, it would strike me as being relatively balanced competition for the same cost of 1 CP.
If it's strictly better value than the 1 CP = 1 re-roll baseline as well as being open to be used alongside the command re-roll, it kinda becomes a no-brainer choice and thus by definition isn't balanced.
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
which is what I think GW's comment was really about it wasn't "feth you compeitive players" it was "Come on guys, we know damn well people aren't using that stratt compeitively, the stratigium sucks"
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Isn't that the definition of balance? It's slightly worse than the command re-roll, but has more utility in being able to be combined with the command re-roll, it would strike me as being relatively balanced competition for the same cost of 1 CP.
If it's strictly better value than the 1 CP = 1 re-roll baseline as well as being open to be used alongside the command re-roll, it kinda becomes a no-brainer choice and thus by definition isn't balanced.
In this case no, because it is keyed to a specific sub-faction as one of its benefits. One has to give up getting one of the other sets of benefits in order to get it. But I do see what you're saying.
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Isn't that the definition of balance? It's slightly worse than the command re-roll, but has more utility in being able to be combined with the command re-roll, it would strike me as being relatively balanced competition for the same cost of 1 CP.
If it's strictly better value than the 1 CP = 1 re-roll baseline as well as being open to be used alongside the command re-roll, it kinda becomes a no-brainer choice and thus by definition isn't balanced.
No, that is not the definition of balance, all stratagems don’t have to have the same level of usefullness even less so if we are comparing one from a specific sept against one that everyone has. Also having to use it before rolling makes it pretty much a waste of cp. I would never use it.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
I think thats the point - these Tau are not behaving like Tau....the reason could be that they have been altered by their experiences, the warp or a mixture of the two......or something else. Maybe they have not Etheral guding them either or he/she has gone insane.....which could also be interesting..
I think this is developing unrest and dissension within the Tau, almost to the point of civil war, to justify Tau on Tau games and different styles of play. Could even be used to justify O’Shovah and O’Shaserra working together, putting down 4th sphere rebels. I actually think it’s quite a good narrative so far; suffering warp abominations for the first time is a good reason for the 4th sphere forces to be behaving differently and there’s a nice uncertainty there as to whether it’s just “seen too much” or a more insidious actual corruption.
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
Bor'kan: Use before rolling # of shots for random # of shot weapons, may reroll it. 1 CP. New one: You get maximum shots automatically, 1CP. So for one you get to reroll it if you don't like result(not even 2d6 pick highest which would better. IF your roll 3 do you reroll it? Average says you get more since you go toward 3.5 but in practice it has chance of giving you LESS shots...). And new one gives you flat out maximum. Same CP price. Not even sept locked
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
Bor'kan: Use before rolling # of shots for random # of shot weapons, may reroll it. 1 CP. New one: You get maximum shots automatically, 1CP. So for one you get to reroll it if you don't like result(not even 2d6 pick highest which would better. IF your roll 3 do you reroll it? Average says you get more since you go toward 3.5 but in practice it has chance of giving you LESS shots...). And new one gives you flat out maximum. Same CP price. Not even sept locked
Well played , GW, well played, we get closer to 7th every PA book ....
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
Bor'kan: Use before rolling # of shots for random # of shot weapons, may reroll it. 1 CP. New one: You get maximum shots automatically, 1CP. So for one you get to reroll it if you don't like result(not even 2d6 pick highest which would better. IF your roll 3 do you reroll it? Average says you get more since you go toward 3.5 but in practice it has chance of giving you LESS shots...). And new one gives you flat out maximum. Same CP price. Not even sept locked
Well played , GW, well played, we get closer to 7th every PA book ....
And when it reaches that point, they'll unveil 9th and everybody will praise them for it.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Does the Borkan one affect all weapons on that unit or just one? Same question for the new Strat.
Borkan affects a single die from a single weapon (i.e. one of the 3D6 on the Y’vahra flamer), though you could use it on an assault weapon and it can be used on titanic.
New Strat affects all dice on all heavy weapons, but not for Stormsurges or regular flamers, etc..
The borkan strat is not a thing to even be considered, it could have been erased from the game and effectively nothing would change, as nobody ever used it anyway even if they DID bother with borkan, giving the fact that let alone its a totally useless stratagem, very few tau guns actually have random shot count and are not super long range to begin with (and thus not getting any value from being borkan)
It Das dead on arrival. It was considered unplayable trash before the book even came out. It's a total dud and GW acknowledged it.
And in the far away day that the codex will actually get a v2, it will be replaced.
GW clearly did a soft edition relaunch with the space marine books. Mainly because they released a lot of stuff all at once, at the beginning of 8th, and it was bland and not particularly balanced.
PA is rebalancing the books for all those early codexs and giving each faction something useful to compete with Iron Hands and Imperial Fists.
Same thing happened with CSM, grey nights etc So a much better strat before and after SM books isn't a new thing.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I've been saying to not buy their printed material for awhile. This is exactly the reason why.
Your solution hasn't been to stop playing with the published materials you disagree with though, you promote pirating the contents which is strictly worse than the practice GW use.
Galas wrote: Wait. Does this mean we will have characters in XV95 Ghostkeel suits?!
The answer is: I don't know. It's listed as "Prototype Weapons Systems"(which is amusing, because it's more of a support system. ). It might be a whole new list of things added that are exclusively for suits.
Also, a sneaker for the Genestealer Cult via Facebooks:
Spoiler:
For those who are workblocked:
The Heart of the Creed
1 Command Point
Genestealer Cults Stratagem
Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one <Cult> Primus model from your army. When that model is set up on the battlefield for the first time, you can select one additional enemy unit for that model's Meticulous Planner ability. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.
Mirrorcodex returning is nice. It not giving you the old-school bonus on seizing the initiative is kinda lame though.
GSC Strat is weak. Tau get 18 auto hits on the for 1 CP, but GSC get basic Lieutenant re-rolls on one second unit in the game, but cc only and only, maybe if you somehow made it through all that Y’vhara overwatch? Suuuuuuure.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Mirrorcodex returning is nice. It not giving you the old-school bonus on seizing the initiative is kinda lame though.
GSC Strat is weak. Tau get 18 auto hits on the for 1 CP, but GSC get basic Lieutenant re-rolls on one second unit in the game, but cc only and only, maybe if you somehow made it through all that Y’vhara overwatch? Suuuuuuure.
Uh:
Tau get 18 auto hits for 1 CPand a minimum of 400pts
The GSC wound re-rolls work for shooting and melee, you're mixing them up with the +1 to hit in the fight phase
Even without the new strat, who the hell would willingly charge a Y’vhara with GSC glass-cannon units unless it was first under Mass Hypnosis or similar debuff? Poor strawman 2/10
small_gods wrote: GW clearly did a soft edition relaunch with the space marine books. Mainly because they released a lot of stuff all at once, at the beginning of 8th, and it was bland and not particularly balanced.
PA is rebalancing the books for all those early codexs and giving each faction something useful to compete with Iron Hands and Imperial Fists.
Same thing happened with CSM, grey nights etc So a much better strat before and after SM books isn't a new thing.
And in the real world a quick perusal of the PA books will show that so far none Imperial armies are getting almost nothing that lets them match up against the new Codex Space Marines.
Tau do look like they are getting some cool stuff but we'll see how much that changes things.
small_gods wrote: GW clearly did a soft edition relaunch with the space marine books. Mainly because they released a lot of stuff all at once, at the beginning of 8th, and it was bland and not particularly balanced.
PA is rebalancing the books for all those early codexs and giving each faction something useful to compete with Iron Hands and Imperial Fists.
Same thing happened with CSM, grey nights etc So a much better strat before and after SM books isn't a new thing.
And in the real world a quick perusal of the PA books will show that so far none Imperial armies are getting almost nothing that lets them match up against the new Codex Space Marines.
Tau do look like they are getting some cool stuff but we'll see how much that changes things.
Pretty sure Eldar Nightspinners with ignore cover and master artisans were doing stellar work vs marines.
small_gods wrote: GW clearly did a soft edition relaunch with the space marine books. Mainly because they released a lot of stuff all at once, at the beginning of 8th, and it was bland and not particularly balanced.
PA is rebalancing the books for all those early codexs and giving each faction something useful to compete with Iron Hands and Imperial Fists.
Same thing happened with CSM, grey nights etc So a much better strat before and after SM books isn't a new thing.
And in the real world a quick perusal of the PA books will show that so far none Imperial armies are getting almost nothing that lets them match up against the new Codex Space Marines.
Tau do look like they are getting some cool stuff but we'll see how much that changes things.
Pretty sure Eldar Nightspinners with ignore cover and master artisans were doing stellar work vs marines.
Pretty sure Marines are still considerably better as an overall army.
Well, pretty telling that the best thing Eldar have going for them is half of the Imperial Fist and half of the Salamander tactic they got thanks to lazy copy & paste filler.
I mean Tau or Necrons or Knights or whatever with Master Artisan are all a straight upgrade. Kinda defeats the point of even having dice in the game at some point though.
Now that I see his picture in the article it occurs to me that it really shoulda been farsight to get a new model rather than Shadowsun.
I mean, don’t get me wrong: She is finecast, but she was pretty up to date in terms of equipment whilst Farsight is both very undergunned by modern standards and stuck in smaller crisis suit than is standard for current commanders.
Wow that GSC strat is garbage. The army already leans nearly 100% into relying on CP just to function the way it was intended from the fluff and now they tie yet another subpar fix to yet another strat lol.
Consider a space marine lieutenant has an ability that is objectively better in every way that lasts the entire game with zero stipulation on reserves or how many targets and his is free from CP and the model has better stats at a cheaper price lol.
I don't know why it matters at this point since the entire GSC codex needs an entire rewrite, but this erases any optimism I had that GW could possibly do it, if even by accident.
For 1cp and the limit of once per battle this should have made the primus aura at least the same as the space marine LT.
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changemod wrote: Now that I see his picture in the article it occurs to me that it really shoulda been farsight to get a new model rather than Shadowsun.
I mean, don’t get me wrong: She is finecast, but she was pretty up to date in terms of equipment whilst Farsight is both very undergunned by modern standards and stuck in smaller crisis suit than is standard for current commanders.
I agree but from a back ground perspective he is an outcast so I doubt he gets the latest and greatest gear on the cutting edge. They could have given him a crude look like they upgraded him on the front lines with stolen files and limited resources though, which would have been really cool and refreshing from all the super clean gundam looking suits.
For 1cp and the limit of once per battle this should have made the primus aura at least the same as the space marine LT.
Or, ya know, full re-rolls of all hits against an entire enemy army all game for just 2 CP .... oh wait, not even GW would ever introduce something as insanely broken as that, right .
Sunny Side Up wrote: Mirrorcodex returning is nice. It not giving you the old-school bonus on seizing the initiative is kinda lame though.
GSC Strat is weak. Tau get 18 auto hits on the for 1 CP, but GSC get basic Lieutenant re-rolls on one second unit in the game, but cc only and only, maybe if you somehow made it through all that Y’vhara overwatch? Suuuuuuure.
I mean, if you say that the tau get 18 autohits, you really ought to say the GSC are getting army-wide lieutenant rerolls.
...And then not mention you're assuming the whole GSC army will be shooting at the targets selected by the primus.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Mirrorcodex returning is nice. It not giving you the old-school bonus on seizing the initiative is kinda lame though.
GSC Strat is weak. Tau get 18 auto hits on the for 1 CP, but GSC get basic Lieutenant re-rolls on one second unit in the game, but cc only and only, maybe if you somehow made it through all that Y’vhara overwatch? Suuuuuuure.
I mean, if you say that the tau get 18 autohits, you really ought to say the GSC are getting army-wide lieutenant rerolls.
...And then not mention you're assuming the whole GSC army will be shooting at the targets selected by the primus.
A shooting buff for GSC is about as useful as a close combat buff for Tau. Kinda misses the point.
If this is a Tau vs. GSC book and Tau get a strat to auto-vape a full aberrant unit for 1 CP, no questions asked, there should probably be an inverse strat for an aberrant unit at near-Y'vahra costs to inversely auto-remove a Y'vahra or Riptide or something, drones and overwatch, etc.. be damned, if the idea was to have that thing be "balanced".
changemod wrote: Now that I see his picture in the article it occurs to me that it really shoulda been farsight to get a new model rather than Shadowsun.
I mean, don’t get me wrong: She is finecast, but she was pretty up to date in terms of equipment whilst Farsight is both very undergunned by modern standards and stuck in smaller crisis suit than is standard for current commanders.
I wouldn't be surprised if the reasoning is that she's like Cawl, something that many people would have liked to use but since she was locked to the 'main faction' and they didn't use it they never got her.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I've been saying to not buy their printed material for awhile. This is exactly the reason why.
Your solution hasn't been to stop playing with the published materials you disagree with though, you promote pirating the contents which is strictly worse than the practice GW use.
LOL "strictly worse". The truth of the matter is that the material isn't worth what they're charging for. Period. That's not even subjective at this point with all of the goddamn bloat they're creating.
They won't learn how bad their practices are until you teach them. That includes both pirating and/or not buying the material.
"Illegal actions will teach a company not to produce a product I want!". You can't whinge it's a worthless product that you want so badly you'll steal it.
Spreelock wrote: So, if tau gets to create their own doctrine, what is left for the Astra militarum?
The same thing?
From the outset, it's been a fair shake to guess that Astra Militarum, Genestealer Cultists, and Tau Empire were getting "create your own doctrine" systems while Ordo Tempestus was going to get expanded rules(likely in the form of a revamp to some of the way the Stormtrooper doctrine works).
The Eldar book had both Drukhari and Craftworlds getting the same system. I think Blood of Baal had the Tyranids getting it too.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I've been saying to not buy their printed material for awhile. This is exactly the reason why.
Your solution hasn't been to stop playing with the published materials you disagree with though, you promote pirating the contents which is strictly worse than the practice GW use.
LOL "strictly worse". The truth of the matter is that the material isn't worth what they're charging for. Period. That's not even subjective at this point with all of the goddamn bloat they're creating.
They won't learn how bad their practices are until you teach them. That includes both pirating and/or not buying the material.
There’s a difference between gently hinting towards something (don’t buy the books) and outright advocating for something illegal. During american prohibition people sold boxes of grape juice with specific instructions on what not to do in order to make sure it doesn’t turn into wine. This is the 40k equivilant of “don’t buy the books.” You are being the guy who writes “how to make wine” instead of “what not to do.”
Back on topic, so far it doesn’t look like anything competitively good has been released yet. The problem with crisis suits is still their durability compared to points cost. They are too short ranged and point intense to be reasonably used as a throwaway unit. It’s looking like PA Tau’s competitiveness will come down to the full list of custom traits. Its a shame because restricting ignore heavy to suits is disappointing for things like pathfinders/tetras/support turrets.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Mirrorcodex returning is nice. It not giving you the old-school bonus on seizing the initiative is kinda lame though.
GSC Strat is weak. Tau get 18 auto hits on the for 1 CP, but GSC get basic Lieutenant re-rolls on one second unit in the game, but cc only and only, maybe if you somehow made it through all that Y’vhara overwatch? Suuuuuuure.
I mean, if you say that the tau get 18 autohits, you really ought to say the GSC are getting army-wide lieutenant rerolls.
...And then not mention you're assuming the whole GSC army will be shooting at the targets selected by the primus.
A shooting buff for GSC is about as useful as a close combat buff for Tau. Kinda misses the point.
If this is a Tau vs. GSC book and Tau get a strat to auto-vape a full aberrant unit for 1 CP, no questions asked, there should probably be an inverse strat for an aberrant unit at near-Y'vahra costs to inversely auto-remove a Y'vahra or Riptide or something, drones and overwatch, etc.. be damned, if the idea was to have that thing be "balanced".
It's a shooting and a melee buff. You thought it was only melee.
Heart of the Creed seems like exactly the sort of thing a stratagem should be to me. Its not gamebreaking, its not required, its just a nice buff you can break out if you want it.
Tau are so good at a base level that really even a slight buff will make them interesting. Its one of the books where you don't get that much from being a specific sept, so you are not trading that much out.
To a degree "arguably worse but free target locks" is a weird tenet - but having to take target locks on things like ghostkeels does add up to making them worse. (I guess you don't have to take them, but hitting on 5s with the main gun is horrid.)
Spreelock wrote: So, if tau gets to create their own doctrine, what is left for the Astra militarum?
The same thing?
From the outset, it's been a fair shake to guess that Astra Militarum, Genestealer Cultists, and Tau Empire were getting "create your own doctrine" systems while Ordo Tempestus was going to get expanded rules(likely in the form of a revamp to some of the way the Stormtrooper doctrine works).
The Eldar book had both Drukhari and Craftworlds getting the same system. I think Blood of Baal had the Tyranids getting it too.
I for one look forward to field my Valhallans as a do-it-your-self regiment rather than with the joke rules they have now.
OTOH, I really should have stopped myself after my second AM project. Excluding Scions and Auxiliaries, I am currently at 5 different regiment WIPs.
Haven't kept up with other PA stuff entirely... how many build-your-own-faction traits have there been for other armies released with similar build-your-own-subfaction rules?
Were they also a "pick and choose 2 traits among this list of X traits"? How many traits total were there to choose from?
Curious what I can reasonably expect, and I want to appropriately leash my enthusiasm.
Unusual Suspect wrote: Haven't kept up with other PA stuff entirely... how many build-your-own-faction traits have there been for other armies released with similar build-your-own-subfaction rules?
Were they also a "pick and choose 2 traits among this list of X traits"? How many traits total were there to choose from?
Curious what I can reasonably expect, and I want to appropriately leash my enthusiasm.
They have all been take 2, and you have to take 2, and it's from a list of about 20 or so. Craftworlds had about 25, Tyranids I think less but still around 20, Drukhari about 25 as well.
Wait did you just report someone for disagreeing with you Dudeface? For shame.
There are other options than buying every supplement GE publishes, or pirating them. Like referring to the copius summaries of said rules available in online publications, or Battlescribe. You are ascribing words to Slayer that he didn't write, and then becoming outraged by them.
And he's right, by the way. Rule bloat, hardback addiction, and the slow, slowww rate of reflexivity that this business model engenders for game balance is a real problem for 40k. Not to mention the thousands of trees chopped down and barrels of ink used to produce, what? A supplement that will be out of date all too soon.
grouchoben wrote: Wait did you just report someone for disagreeing with you Dudeface? For shame.
There are other options than buying every supplement GE publishes, or pirating them. Like referring to the copius summaries of said rules available in online publications, or Battlescribe. You are ascribing words to Slayer that he didn't write, and then becoming outraged by them.
And he's right, by the way. Rule bloat, hardback addiction, and the slow, slowww rate of reflexivity that this business model engenders for game balance is a real problem for 40k. Not to mention the thousands of trees chopped down and barrels of ink used to produce, what? A supplement that will be out of date all too soon.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I've been saying to not buy their printed material for awhile. This is exactly the reason why.
Your solution hasn't been to stop playing with the published materials you disagree with though, you promote pirating the contents which is strictly worse than the practice GW use.
LOL "strictly worse". The truth of the matter is that the material isn't worth what they're charging for. Period. That's not even subjective at this point with all of the goddamn bloat they're creating.
They won't learn how bad their practices are until you teach them. That includes both pirating and/or not buying the material.
Other previous: "Then you hold out until change happens, it is pretty simple. You don't need everything they're selling. Guess what? Rules and such are SUPER easy to procure without buying their product, so don't reward them."
I agree they could do things differently, I'd quite welcome a subscription based digital model for example but pirating books isn't acceptable. Nobody needs all these books, and a move away from dead trees would be nice, but the people behind them still deserve to get paid.
This really doesn't strike me as the place to discuss whether you should buy rulebooks or obtain them through various other means.
In other news, the current custom subfaction is what, this:
Vanilla Astartes, as of Codex
Craftworlds and Drukhari, PA1
Tyranids?
Tau, possibly other Greater Good factions but not yet announced.
Anyone else notice that the Chaos Space Marines seem to be left out here?
Benionin wrote: This really doesn't strike me as the place to discuss whether you should buy rulebooks or obtain them through various other means.
In other news, the current custom subfaction is what, this:
Vanilla Astartes, as of Codex
Craftworlds and Drukhari, PA1
Tyranids?
Tau, possibly other Greater Good factions but not yet announced.
Anyone else notice that the Chaos Space Marines seem to be left out here?
Agreed sorry, chaos marines were left out oddly which is a shame. I imagine knights and daemons won't have them either.
For 198 points and 2CP you can deep strike three Crisis Suits with Fusion Blasters behind a castle to throw out nine strength 8, AP -4, D6 damage shots hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s, and ignoring cover for a single target. If you dump a bunch of drones with them you may even get to shoot with some of them twice. I'm not suggesting this will break the meta or anything, but it does give Crisis Suits at least a little buff(which is definitely needed).
Much as I do like to rag on 'Chaos Players' as a whole for seemingly never being satisfied, it wouldn't be funny if they didn't actually have something of a point.
IA:13. That's more like it. Massive. Sprawling. Just, perhaps not quite so sprawling.
Mud Turkey 13 wrote: For 198 points and 2CP you can deep strike three Crisis Suits with Fusion Blasters behind a castle to throw out nine strength 8, AP -4, D6 damage shots hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s, and ignoring cover for a single target. If you dump a bunch of drones with them you may even get to shoot with some of them twice. I'm not suggesting this will break the meta or anything, but it does give Crisis Suits at least a little buff(which is definitely needed).
If you have cash in the bank - you can spend two CP more to be hitting on 2's with a reroll. Though it does require you to be Farsight Enclaves ... so probably not.
Shield of Flesh
1 Command Point
Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase, when an Infantry unit from your army that is within 3" of a friendly Bullgryns unit is chosen as the target of an attack. Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made against that Infantry unit, if that Bullgryns unit is closer to the attacking model than that Infantry unit is, subtract 1 from the hit roll.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Goodness knows we can't have anyone not be dragged through mud to the human level of evil. That'd make it a bit too obvious the imperials are not Good Guys.
40k has been so completely flanderized in it's background it's come out as cartoony as My Little Pony, just on the other end.
I feel really sorry for GSC players, everything here is utter crap.
Honestly it feels like GW doesn't want to give GSC anything truly interesting or write their rules in such a way because they are afraid of GSC becoming busted, but in light of what they did to Space Marines and the new stuff T'au are getting? Hmmm. Who knows the book might have some other interesting combos in there.
Cronch wrote: Did I say that? No, but hey, nice strawman there, understandable given the lack of snow this winter.
Given that you also seem to have entirely missed the point surrounding the Fourth Sphere Expansion(they're doing these terrible things because they saw terrible things and they're getting censured by the Tau Empire for it) being so awful, I can see why you'd have umbrage with things.
I feel really sorry for GSC players, everything here is utter crap.
Honestly it feels like GW doesn't want to give GSC anything truly interesting or write their rules in such a way because they are afraid of GSC becoming busted, but in light of what they did to Space Marines and the new stuff T'au are getting? Hmmm. Who knows the book might have some other interesting combos in there.
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
I feel really sorry for GSC players, everything here is utter crap.
Honestly it feels like GW doesn't want to give GSC anything truly interesting or write their rules in such a way because they are afraid of GSC becoming busted, but in light of what they did to Space Marines and the new stuff T'au are getting? Hmmm. Who knows the book might have some other interesting combos in there.
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
Perhaps, anyway, I can't wait for Saturday, we'll see if GW has dropped the ball for us or not.
The core GSC book needs an entire rewrite from the ground up. It just doesn't function in a fluid or fun way for either side of the table. It's a tiresome amount of bookkeeping and resource allocation for what is essentially an army of guardsmen with auto guns and pistols.
A good start would be allowing the cult creed to actually work on the vehicles and genestealers. Then the next easiest step would be killing the worthless blip system and just allowing GSC units with cult ambush to either forward deploy like scouts or deepstrike.
Almost all the characters need overhauling. The primus should provide reroll 1's to wound as an aura permanently along with his +1 to hit in melee. The Nexos shouldn't farm CP but should allow 1 unit a turn to move after deployment from reserves. For each clamavus add one more unit that can do this.
Beyond that it would be helpful if GSC psychers could actually cast two fething powers like every other armies expensive casters. The magus is one of the most over priced characters in the game just behind the cryptek for Necrons.
Everything previewed there looks like hot garbage.
The GSC stuff previewed so far is incredibly lazy. A copy/paste of the bad part of the Rusted Claw tactic, another tactic half that will benefit *at maximum* two whole models in a detachment (since you can only have 1 Patriarch and 1 Magus) and a stratagem that gives a rule all space marines get for free to one, count 'em one, GEQ squad for 1cp.
Oh, and a psychic power that does pretty much the exact same thing as a psychic power we already had. Honestly, probably less. Might from Beyond will usually be a better spell for Twisted Helix. I'd say you could have both, but all our psykers only cast 1 spell.
I'm also willing to bet that they do not give GSC the thing they actually need to fix their chapter tactics, which is <cult> tactics on <cult> vehicles. That privilege will remain only for space marines, and specifically only for IMPERIAL space marines. Because it would be so bonkers OP for a GSC vehicle to get a 3+ armor save vs damage 1 weapons or a 6++ invuln save *sideeyes the rules IH vehicles get*
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Red Corsair wrote: The core GSC book needs an entire rewrite from the ground up. It just doesn't function in a fluid or fun way for either side of the table. It's a tiresome amount of bookkeeping and resource allocation for what is essentially an army of guardsmen with auto guns and pistols.
A good start would be allowing the cult creed to actually work on the vehicles and genestealers. Then the next easiest step would be killing the worthless blip system and just allowing GSC units with cult ambush to either forward deploy like scouts or deepstrike.
Almost all the characters need overhauling. The primus should provide reroll 1's to wound as an aura permanently along with his +1 to hit in melee. The Nexos shouldn't farm CP but should allow 1 unit a turn to move after deployment from reserves. For each clamavus add one more unit that can do this.
Beyond that it would be helpful if GSC psychers could actually cast two fething powers like every other armies expensive casters. The magus is one of the most over priced characters in the game just behind the cryptek for Necrons.
Everything previewed there looks like hot garbage.
Whaaaat, you don't think that double the points for...literally exactly precisely the exact same statline and weapons a Primaris Psyker gets out of the Guard codex is fair? Cmon man, he gets cult ambush and a 6" psychic deny aura!!!
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
I don't play the others but Tyranids got some great new stuff. When a faction doesn't get given broken Iron Hands-level rules that's not 'screwed over', it's how the game is supposed to work.
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
I don't play the others but Tyranids got some great new stuff. When a faction doesn't get given broken Iron Hands-level rules that's not 'screwed over', it's how the game is supposed to work.
LVO is house rules and not even 40k at this point. The missions and fixed deployment with magic boxes changes the game in radical ways. The fact that folks cite that event in response to genuine complaints about the core rules is concerning.
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
I don't play the others but Tyranids got some great new stuff. When a faction doesn't get given broken Iron Hands-level rules that's not 'screwed over', it's how the game is supposed to work.
They had such a low overall playrate that they don't even appear in the pie chart faction breakdown overall. I would be highly suspicious that those numbers (the tyranid, not the eldar ones) would be skewed by a low sample size of 1-2 very good players.
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
I don't play the others but Tyranids got some great new stuff. When a faction doesn't get given broken Iron Hands-level rules that's not 'screwed over', it's how the game is supposed to work.
ITC houserules where you can score points sitting behind a ruin not playing, except perhaps nuking one enemy unit that you can stack to give up a million points due to ITCs dumb secondary system. There’s a reason GSC has a sub-30% win rate in 40K vs. near or perhaps over 50% in ITC.
When GSC needs to actually play the game, they fall apart.
Arbitrator wrote: Prepared Ambush almost had me in hysterics. It's so hilariously worthless that I don't know what to say.
What's even better is that whoever is running facebook is trying to justify it. *sigh* I'm hoping the other options in the book are as good as the Twisted Helix power, so far I'm not impressed.
Well, it's possible they've only shown off the worst things in the book for GSC, but then Craftworlds, Drukhari and Tyranids got screwed over as well so I gues each book is only allowed 1 faction to get good stuff.
I don't play the others but Tyranids got some great new stuff. When a faction doesn't get given broken Iron Hands-level rules that's not 'screwed over', it's how the game is supposed to work.
When all Xenos are in the gutter that doesn't mean much.
Arbitrator wrote: Prepared Ambush almost had me in hysterics. It's so hilariously worthless that I don't know what to say.
What's even better is that whoever is running facebook is trying to justify it. *sigh* I'm hoping the other options in the book are as good as the Twisted Helix power, so far I'm not impressed.
Wow, don't be so entitled! You just can't see GW's genius at finally giving GSC a way to effectively kill, uh... Marine Scouts(?)! Yeah, why don't you write your own game if you're so good at this? Thank you GW! Take all my money, I'm about to go and buy six Neophye boxes from the webstore (but don't tell the wife hehe!).
Twisted Helix power is alright, but max 2 casters per detachment that only cast a single power without re-rolls despite being Farseer/Librarian priced for the cheaper, 4-wounds T3 version kinda limits it.
Arbitrator wrote: Prepared Ambush almost had me in hysterics. It's so hilariously worthless that I don't know what to say.
What's even better is that whoever is running facebook is trying to justify it. *sigh* I'm hoping the other options in the book are as good as the Twisted Helix power, so far I'm not impressed.
No, they're not.
Here's what was said:
As we here at Warhammer Community see it this would make it possible to fire over the screening units of your opponent for example. Another idea would be to deep strike one unit in rapid fire range and another unit of neophyte hybrids behind them and have all of then shoot 2 shots.
It's almost like shock! gasp! people have differing opinions as to the value of a thing...
Arbitrator wrote: Prepared Ambush almost had me in hysterics. It's so hilariously worthless that I don't know what to say.
What's even better is that whoever is running facebook is trying to justify it. *sigh* I'm hoping the other options in the book are as good as the Twisted Helix power, so far I'm not impressed.
No, they're not.
Here's what was said:
As we here at Warhammer Community see it this would make it possible to fire over the screening units of your opponent for example. Another idea would be to deep strike one unit in rapid fire range and another unit of neophyte hybrids behind them and have all of then shoot 2 shots.
It's almost like shock! gasp! people have differing opinions as to the value of a thing...
Mate, they're bloody autoguns. Burning 1CP for that, is wasteful. They're there to advertise the product, they are still trying to justify a rubbish rule.
On the best applicable unit, GSC for 1 CP situationally adds an average 10 additional Str. 3, AP-, 1 damage hits if you were to shoot at long range, netting you about 1,111 MEQ wound if the guy isn’t in cover/stealthy.
On the best applicable unit, the new 1 CP Tau averages 7,5 additional Str. 6, AP -2, 3 damage hits and an additional Str. 10, AP -3, 3 damage hit, netting nearly 12 MEQ wounds.
On parity, the Tau modular weapon Strat would need to cost 10+ CP to have a similar CP-vs-damage ratio.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Much as I do like to rag on 'Chaos Players' as a whole for seemingly never being satisfied, it wouldn't be funny if they didn't actually have something of a point.
IA:13. That's more like it. Massive. Sprawling. Just, perhaps not quite so sprawling.
I struggle to see their point to be honest.
If they think they're hard done by they need to take a long, hard look at some other factions. Big time.
On topic - where's today's news? E - found em, GSC does look weak. Guard will probably be better, the Bullgryn strat is useful.
Kanluwen wrote: Then don't use it. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Issue is that the rule team writing something like that shows they clearly have no idea what they are doing, hence why I am hoping other options in the book are better, so for far people aren't hopeful. That's the problem people are having. Being a contrarian only really works when you have something to stand on mate.
Carnikang wrote: Why is it that Tyranids and GSC get a single power for their subfactions, while SM got entire Disciplines for each of theirs?
Because GW is looking at the production line of Primaris sadly, wishing they could squat every non-Imperial army and turn back the clock to make 40k Marines vs Marines only.
Kanluwen wrote: Then don't use it. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Issue is that the rule team writing something like that shows they clearly have no idea what they are doing, hence why I am hoping other options in the book are better, so for far people aren't hopeful. That's the problem people are having. Being a contrarian only really works when you have something to stand on mate.
The rules team isn't the one running the page nor giving the opinion. You know that right?
As we here at Warhammer Community see it this would make it possible to fire over the screening units of your opponent for example. Another idea would be to deep strike one unit in rapid fire range and another unit of neophyte hybrids behind them and have all of then shoot 2 shots.
Sunny Side Up wrote: On the best applicable unit, GSC for 1 CP situationally adds an average 10 additional Str. 3, AP-, 1 damage hits if you were to shoot at long range, netting you about 1,111 MEQ wound if the guy isn’t in cover/stealthy.
On the best applicable unit, the new 1 CP Tau averages 7,5 additional Str. 6, AP -2, 3 damage hits and an additional Str. 10, AP -3, 3 damage hit, netting nearly 12 MEQ wounds.
On parity, the Tau modular weapon Strat would need to cost 10+ CP to have a similar CP-vs-damage ratio.
Tbh we know they're re-writing the FW rules atm and that suit is an outlier for that strat, it's almost the only unit worth using it on and costs 400 points.
Don't get me wrong that gsc strat is woeful compared to a lot of stuff but it's still there for use and if you seriously have too many cp it's still a marginal buff.
Kanluwen wrote: Then don't use it. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Issue is that the rule team writing something like that shows they clearly have no idea what they are doing, hence why I am hoping other options in the book are better, so for far people aren't hopeful. That's the problem people are having. Being a contrarian only really works when you have something to stand on mate.
The rules team isn't the one running the page nor giving the opinion. You know that right?
As we here at Warhammer Community see it this would make it possible to fire over the screening units of your opponent for example. Another idea would be to deep strike one unit in rapid fire range and another unit of neophyte hybrids behind them and have all of then shoot 2 shots.
Ah the semantics game, because how I see it that was what was likely going through the rule teams head, thinking they were clever writing such a thing. If GW wants to run a social platform, those on it are their face so when they say something it belongs to warhammer. End of. They are writing that down to get you to buy the product.
You claimed it was the rules team writing it. You then accused me of being a contrarian.
You were wrong about who wrote the blurb, it's pretty clear that they weren't defending it but saying how they would use it and you just want an excuse to whinge.
You claimed it was the rules team writing it. You then accused me of being a contrarian.
You were wrong about who wrote the blurb, it's pretty clear that they weren't defending it but saying how they would use it and you just want an excuse to whinge.
They're defending it because they are the warhammer community team since their job is to advertise the product for people to buy. The community team is the players gateway to the company, how do you know the community team haven't talked to the rule writers to come up with that? How do you know they weren't given a list of things to say in light of that article being prepared? I consider them one in the same, you don't.
That new GSC autogun strat is not as worthless as some people believe.
As an almost pure neophyte Cult player, I often run multiple full sized blobs of neophytes, armed with Mining Lasers and Grenade Launchers. One of the big problems I have found is being able to cram all my deepstriking shooting into rapid fire range. I have previously got round this by using the Lying in Wait strat to let me get within 3" but it still causes me a big headache when I am Ambushing 120 infantry in a turn.
This lets me have another full blob of infantry Ambush comfortably without losing out on any firepower.
Does the Tau strat allow for more raw damage output. Sure. But the cult strat is a good tool to have and gives the cult more tactical flexibility.
I am personally quite happy with this strat, because it has some good tactical uses, is only 1 CP but isn't totally broken. It is a great example of what a stratagem should be!
I am not a GW fan boy by any means, I think the current state of 8th is really bad thanks to marines. But People cry when GW releases OP stuff and then they also cry when GW releases normal power level stuff. I guess we all wish GW could just be more consistent.
FatBoyNoSlim wrote: That new GSC autogun strat is not as worthless as some people believe.
As an almost pure neophyte Cult player, I often run multiple full sized blobs of neophytes, armed with Mining Lasers and Grenade Launchers. One of the big problems I have found is being able to cram all my deepstriking shooting into rapid fire range. I have previously got round this by using the Lying in Wait strat to let me get within 3" but it still causes me a big headache when I am Ambushing 120 infantry in a turn.
This lets me have another full blob of infantry Ambush comfortably without losing out on any firepower.
Does the Tau strat allow for more raw damage output. Sure. But the cult strat is a good tool to have and gives the cult more tactical flexibility.
I am personally quite happy with this strat, because it has some good tactical uses, is only 1 CP but isn't totally broken. It is a great example of what a stratagem should be!
I am not a GW fan boy by any means, I think the current state of 8th is really bad thanks to marines. But People cry when GW releases OP stuff and then they also cry when GW releases normal power level stuff. I guess we all wish GW could just be more consistent.
Hi FBNS,
This is a really interesting viewpoint. But can I ask how much impact you expect to get out of this? From my experience, neophytes damage comes not from the autoguns but the special weapons. Getting more autogun shots for 1 CP just seems a waste of CP.
The most you can get out of this is 20 additional S3 AP0 shots. Basic mathhammer:
20 shots, 10 hits.
Against GEQ that is 5 wounds and around 3 dead GEQs.
Against MEQs that is 3.33 wounds and only 1.11 dead MEQ (or a half dead primaris).
Yes you could add in the Alphus but at that point you are not only investing CP but an HQ choice to get a bit more of a buff.
Yes it's flexible, but what will it actually achieve?
FatBoyNoSlim wrote: That new GSC autogun strat is not as worthless as some people believe.
As an almost pure neophyte Cult player, I often run multiple full sized blobs of neophytes, armed with Mining Lasers and Grenade Launchers. One of the big problems I have found is being able to cram all my deepstriking shooting into rapid fire range. I have previously got round this by using the Lying in Wait strat to let me get within 3" but it still causes me a big headache when I am Ambushing 120 infantry in a turn.
This lets me have another full blob of infantry Ambush comfortably without losing out on any firepower.
Does the Tau strat allow for more raw damage output. Sure. But the cult strat is a good tool to have and gives the cult more tactical flexibility.
I am personally quite happy with this strat, because it has some good tactical uses, is only 1 CP but isn't totally broken. It is a great example of what a stratagem should be!
I am not a GW fan boy by any means, I think the current state of 8th is really bad thanks to marines. But People cry when GW releases OP stuff and then they also cry when GW releases normal power level stuff. I guess we all wish GW could just be more consistent.
Hi FBNS,
This is a really interesting viewpoint. But can I ask how much impact you expect to get out of this? From my experience, neophytes damage comes not from the autoguns but the special weapons. Getting more autogun shots for 1 CP just seems a waste of CP.
The most you can get out of this is 20 additional S3 AP0 shots. Basic mathhammer:
20 shots, 10 hits.
Against GEQ that is 5 wounds and around 3 dead GEQs.
Against MEQs that is 3.33 wounds and only 1.11 dead MEQ (or a half dead primaris).
Yes you could add in the Alphus but at that point you are not only investing CP but an HQ choice to get a bit more of a buff.
Yes it's flexible, but what will it actually achieve?
It will make you feel bad about spending CP on a slightly modified (more mobility, but fewer shots) First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, which is built into less expensive guard units.
"_hey what about a stratagem that gives +6" range on neophyt's weapons the turn they are set up using cult ambush?
_are they marines or what?
_no...
_ just give their pea-shooters assault 2.
_ but, no one will ever use this!
_ yes but it fills the page
_ but...
_ have you not stratagems and relics to write? money won't earn itself!"
It will make you feel bad about spending CP on a slightly modified (more mobility, but fewer shots) First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, which is built into less expensive guard units.
And those Guard units:
-Can't pop up.
-Can't be bolstered to 20 strong units, except with a Stratagem
-Don't come with the option for lasguns across the board for the squad
FatBoyNoSlim wrote: That new GSC autogun strat is not as worthless as some people believe.
As an almost pure neophyte Cult player, I often run multiple full sized blobs of neophytes, armed with Mining Lasers and Grenade Launchers. One of the big problems I have found is being able to cram all my deepstriking shooting into rapid fire range. I have previously got round this by using the Lying in Wait strat to let me get within 3" but it still causes me a big headache when I am Ambushing 120 infantry in a turn.
This lets me have another full blob of infantry Ambush comfortably without losing out on any firepower.
Does the Tau strat allow for more raw damage output. Sure. But the cult strat is a good tool to have and gives the cult more tactical flexibility.
I am personally quite happy with this strat, because it has some good tactical uses, is only 1 CP but isn't totally broken. It is a great example of what a stratagem should be!
I am not a GW fan boy by any means, I think the current state of 8th is really bad thanks to marines. But People cry when GW releases OP stuff and then they also cry when GW releases normal power level stuff. I guess we all wish GW could just be more consistent.
GSC have access to lasgun-armed units who can get this ability, but better, for 20% less cost and no CP. Brood Brothers infantry squads with Brood Brothers Company Commanders.
Why would you not use those, and instead bring your 10-man neophyte squads with more special and heavy weapons instead?
Tyel wrote: If Prepared Ambush also let the unit shoot at characters it might be interesting. As it is though I'm suspect you would ever spend the CP.
I agree that stratagems shouldn't be auto-takes, but spending 1 CP to maybe do a wound on an Intercessor? Doesn't seem like a fair exchange.
Well yeah, autoguns aren't good at clearing heavy infantry. Chaff though? Might be worth the 1CP to grab a few extra kills. I could see it useful for spawning in a ruin on an enemy's flank, harass them with a bucket of shots for the first turn and continue to pepper them afterwards. I don't think its that useless. I've seen worst.
Yes it's flexible, but what will it actually achieve?
Hopefully it will achieve an errata to Rapid Fire 2.
Which means at 13" or further, it's the same thing as being Assault 2.
Let's not forget that we're now seeing items/wargear that block setup within 12" rather than the usual 9".
Yep it would be equally a waste of 1CP if it were Rapid Fire 2 outside of 12".
The issue is not that it is only usable where you are blocked from setting up within RF range, the issue is that it only does anything for Autoguns which, mathematically, won't kill much extra for the cost of 1CP (GSC are already CP hungry). The opportunity cost of an extra Primaris kill is too high for this strat.
Not a fan of it, because I don't want my autogun totting chaffe to run and shoot when they also have mining lasers in the unit that WONT get to shoot if they advance. Barring a cult trait, of course.
Even then, only time I've ever taken big blobs of Neophytes was for shotguns at close range when they popped up. Otherwise it's min units with maximum firepower so there is better coverage across the board.... Two seperate units on either side of the board in cover are usually better than 1 massive one that might not fit in cover.
Carnikang wrote: Not a fan of it, because I don't want my autogun totting chaffe to run and shoot when they also have mining lasers in the unit that WONT get to shoot if they advance. Barring a cult trait, of course.
Even then, only time I've ever taken big blobs of Neophytes was for shotguns at close range when they popped up. Otherwise it's min units with maximum firepower so there is better coverage across the board.... Two seperate units on either side of the board in cover are usually better than 1 massive one that might not fit in cover.
You cannot even use it to run and shoot (despite making the weapons assault weapons).
It's limited only to units that arrive via Cult Ambush from reinforcements. Having Neophytes advance and shoot autoguns (on 5+) would've clearly been broken.
Carnikang wrote: Not a fan of it, because I don't want my autogun totting chaffe to run and shoot when they also have mining lasers in the unit that WONT get to shoot if they advance. Barring a cult trait, of course.
Even then, only time I've ever taken big blobs of Neophytes was for shotguns at close range when they popped up. Otherwise it's min units with maximum firepower so there is better coverage across the board.... Two seperate units on either side of the board in cover are usually better than 1 massive one that might not fit in cover.
You won't be able to run and shoot though, because you activate the strat in the shooting phase. Its really just to allow you to double tap at max range without allowing you to quadruple tap at medium range.
Carnikang wrote: Not a fan of it, because I don't want my autogun totting chaffe to run and shoot when they also have mining lasers in the unit that WONT get to shoot if they advance. Barring a cult trait, of course.
Even then, only time I've ever taken big blobs of Neophytes was for shotguns at close range when they popped up. Otherwise it's min units with maximum firepower so there is better coverage across the board.... Two seperate units on either side of the board in cover are usually better than 1 massive one that might not fit in cover.
You cannot even use it to run and shoot (despite making the weapons assault weapons).
It's limited only to units that arrive via Cult Ambush from reinforcements. Having Neophytes advance and shoot autoguns (on 5+) would've clearly been broken.
psssh, yeah, hitting on 5s, that's for your vehicles! Your fast scouty but more fragile vehicles piloted by crazy cultists that we gave all heavy weapons so you have to either sit them still and use them like stationary gun turrets or lose 33% of your firepower.
Meanwhile we just hand that move and shoot heavy penalty out like candy to the faction that has access to full hit rerolls on 90pt characters.
Yeah, the hit penalties for heavy weapons shouldn't apply to vehicles. That's a stupid rule.
About as stupid as not being able to shoot a character out in the open because there happens to be a grot hiding being a wall just a fraction of an inch closer.
At least until we find there's another that also makes them snipers...character targeting and mortal wounds on a 6 etc
But at the moment, it does seem a little underwhelming.
At least until we find there's another that also makes them snipers...character targeting and mortal wounds on a 6 etc
But at the moment, it does seem a little underwhelming.
yeah that...also would not be good. Because you could just bring a kelermorph for...let's see...20pts less. And not spend a bunch of CP on him.
Carnikang wrote: Not a fan of it, because I don't want my autogun totting chaffe to run and shoot when they also have mining lasers in the unit that WONT get to shoot if they advance. Barring a cult trait, of course.
Even then, only time I've ever taken big blobs of Neophytes was for shotguns at close range when they popped up. Otherwise it's min units with maximum firepower so there is better coverage across the board.... Two seperate units on either side of the board in cover are usually better than 1 massive one that might not fit in cover.
You won't be able to run and shoot though, because you activate the strat in the shooting phase. Its really just to allow you to double tap at max range without allowing you to quadruple tap at medium range.
See, I skimmed the strat and didn't even see it. Useless for the majority of GSC lists and playstyles....
the_scotsman wrote: yeah that...also would not be good. Because you could just bring a kelermorph for...let's see...20pts less. And not spend a bunch of CP on him.
The argument would be that you could do both.
Or rather make a decision based on your opponents army/positioning etc.
This is just... some situational extra autogun rounds.
Yes, maybe there is going to be "that time" when you find you need to kill 3 guardsmen, a mighty 12 points, to finish a squad and thereby deny an objective or get kill more in ITC, and for some reason you couldn't stick your Neophyte squad in 12" because... reasons.
But it seems incredibly niche.
Its the creep of the game. This might not have been a crazy stratagem in the first 12 months of 8th. But it seems very weak now.
FatBoyNoSlim wrote: That new GSC autogun strat is not as worthless as some people believe.
As an almost pure neophyte Cult player, I often run multiple full sized blobs of neophytes, armed with Mining Lasers and Grenade Launchers. One of the big problems I have found is being able to cram all my deepstriking shooting into rapid fire range. I have previously got round this by using the Lying in Wait strat to let me get within 3" but it still causes me a big headache when I am Ambushing 120 infantry in a turn.
This lets me have another full blob of infantry Ambush comfortably without losing out on any firepower.
Does the Tau strat allow for more raw damage output. Sure. But the cult strat is a good tool to have and gives the cult more tactical flexibility.
I am personally quite happy with this strat, because it has some good tactical uses, is only 1 CP but isn't totally broken. It is a great example of what a stratagem should be!
I am not a GW fan boy by any means, I think the current state of 8th is really bad thanks to marines. But People cry when GW releases OP stuff and then they also cry when GW releases normal power level stuff. I guess we all wish GW could just be more consistent.
GSC have access to lasgun-armed units who can get this ability, but better, for 20% less cost and no CP. Brood Brothers infantry squads with Brood Brothers Company Commanders.
Why would you not use those, and instead bring your 10-man neophyte squads with more special and heavy weapons instead?
20% less cost? Let me guess the company commander is free? People need to realise orders are not built in and are not auras. They’re good yeah but limited in many ways and guard has the downside of almost no auras.
Well. "Don't use it and pretend it doesn't exist" is pretty much what GW should just print onto all books and boxes for GSC these days.
Seems like the best thing GSC will be getting in that book is the Astra Miltiarum Bullgryn stuff to slap another -1 to hit on your Hive Guard or Genestealers something.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the hit penalties for heavy weapons shouldn't apply to vehicles. That's a stupid rule.
About as stupid as not being able to shoot a character out in the open because there happens to be a grot hiding being a wall just a fraction of an inch closer.
Feel free to come up with better rule that doesn't result in rhino sniping like in earlier edition
The only successful thing this stratagem has done is make people actually discuss the merits of an insignificant amount of S3 shooting.
The only time it would ever be useful is if you absolutely need to kill a tiny unit off an objective and the only thing you have are autoguns coming in from reserve. Otherwise, it's terrible.
I mean in the best case scenario it's kinda like a double shoot stratagem for anti chaff duty for 1cp I do wonder though, why you'd use it considering that you still would be rather close?
I dont think anyone is argueing that the autogun strat is super powerful, I kinda like it and I am not even saying its great.
I just think that is a good example of what a 1CP strat should be like, a nice little buff that has some tactical flexibility. A 1CP strat SHOULD only let you kill an extra marine whilst getting to deploy much further away, it shouldnt delete a whole enemy unit!
The problem is simply that Marines have broken the game as many of their strats/abilities are extremely powerful but still only cost 1 CP. Now everyone compares anything new with what marines got. But that also means that most new releases are met with disappointment and negativity.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well. "Don't use it and pretend it doesn't exist" is pretty much what GW should just print onto all books and boxes for GSC these days.
Seems like the best thing GSC will be getting in that book is the Astra Miltiarum Bullgryn stuff to slap another -1 to hit on your Hive Guard or Genestealers something.
I don't think GSC can make use of [ASTRA MILITARUM] stratagems, can they?
At least until we find there's another that also makes them snipers...character targeting and mortal wounds on a 6 etc
But at the moment, it does seem a little underwhelming.
yeah that...also would not be good. Because you could just bring a kelermorph for...let's see...20pts less. And not spend a bunch of CP on him.
Kelermorph generally needs 2-5CP. 12" guns and a target that doesn't want to be closest (plus the 9" deep strike range) means you're usually using 'Lying in Wait' to let him get a shot (if even that is possible). And might need the extra round of shooting from Perfect Ambush if going for a Marine Character. Also no option here for getting past good ward saves, as the Kelermorph is a gunslinger and not a sniper. The example of 40 shots getting MW on a 6 to wound (with Primus and Alphus options to improve matters) is quite different.
But anyway, this is just all make believe . Just saying, whilst the strat seems bad on it's own - there's things you could combine it with to make it properly fearsome. Just have to wait to see if they do.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well. "Don't use it and pretend it doesn't exist" is pretty much what GW should just print onto all books and boxes for GSC these days.
Seems like the best thing GSC will be getting in that book is the Astra Miltiarum Bullgryn stuff to slap another -1 to hit on your Hive Guard or Genestealers something.
I don't think GSC can make use of [ASTRA MILITARUM] stratagems, can they?
Brood Brother detachment is a Astra militarum one. As that's the only thing locking away their strats.
Though they specifically don't get Genestealer Cult as a faction keyword.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well. "Don't use it and pretend it doesn't exist" is pretty much what GW should just print onto all books and boxes for GSC these days.
Seems like the best thing GSC will be getting in that book is the Astra Miltiarum Bullgryn stuff to slap another -1 to hit on your Hive Guard or Genestealers something.
I don't think GSC can make use of [ASTRA MILITARUM] stratagems, can they?
Brood Brother detachment is a Astra militarum one. As that's the only thing locking away their strats.
Though they specifically don't get Genestealer Cult as a faction keyword.
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Depending on the wording, that could be right. A lot of their strats refer to ASTRA MILITARUM only, so most only affect the Brood Brothers detachment.
However this one refers to friendly units so can easily apply to GSC or Tyranids in the same army. What's more funny is that the new Maleceptor strat to reduce ranged weapon strength on friendly units is worded the same way, so can buff Brood Brothers AM units.
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Depending on the wording, that could be right. A lot of their strats refer to ASTRA MILITARUM only, so most only affect the Brood Brothers detachment.
However this one refers to friendly units so can easily apply to GSC or Tyranids in the same army. What's more funny is that the new Maleceptor strat to reduce ranged weapon strength on friendly units is worded the same way, so can buff Brood Brothers AM units.
Interesting! Sounds unintended to me, though. I'd hate to be a Guard player (or AM or whatever) and have all of my tasty strats also ported over to another faction that has it's own (hopefully?) tasty strats. Feels like there's no incentive to play mono-Guard, which is poor design IMO.
I feel this gets asked more and more often.
But is it weird that presumably the usual outriders will be getting this book on Friday but leaks seem to have been so few and far between?
I realise its impatience - we'll probably have a full breakdown in at least 48 hours - but I want it nowww....
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Depending on the wording, that could be right. A lot of their strats refer to ASTRA MILITARUM only, so most only affect the Brood Brothers detachment.
However this one refers to friendly units so can easily apply to GSC or Tyranids in the same army. What's more funny is that the new Maleceptor strat to reduce ranged weapon strength on friendly units is worded the same way, so can buff Brood Brothers AM units.
Interesting! Sounds unintended to me, though. I'd hate to be a Guard player (or AM or whatever) and have all of my tasty strats also ported over to another faction that has it's own (hopefully?) tasty strats. Feels like there's no incentive to play mono-Guard, which is poor design IMO.
Wich regiment you pick is very important for guard in order of getting advantages and even gamestile, since brood brothers don’t get that it’s not that much of a problem.
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Depending on the wording, that could be right. A lot of their strats refer to ASTRA MILITARUM only, so most only affect the Brood Brothers detachment.
However this one refers to friendly units so can easily apply to GSC or Tyranids in the same army. What's more funny is that the new Maleceptor strat to reduce ranged weapon strength on friendly units is worded the same way, so can buff Brood Brothers AM units.
Interesting! Sounds unintended to me, though. I'd hate to be a Guard player (or AM or whatever) and have all of my tasty strats also ported over to another faction that has it's own (hopefully?) tasty strats. Feels like there's no incentive to play mono-Guard, which is poor design IMO.
Considering how prominent Loyal 32 was/is and being an Imperial army often souped with for that reason, we might see a Mono-Only benefit in the same vain as Space Marines.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the hit penalties for heavy weapons shouldn't apply to vehicles. That's a stupid rule.
About as stupid as not being able to shoot a character out in the open because there happens to be a grot hiding being a wall just a fraction of an inch closer.
Feel free to come up with better rule that doesn't result in rhino sniping like in earlier edition
How about can't target a character if there's a visible enemy unit within 6" of it that's closer?
Also, what is Rhino sniping?
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Depending on the wording, that could be right. A lot of their strats refer to ASTRA MILITARUM only, so most only affect the Brood Brothers detachment.
However this one refers to friendly units so can easily apply to GSC or Tyranids in the same army. What's more funny is that the new Maleceptor strat to reduce ranged weapon strength on friendly units is worded the same way, so can buff Brood Brothers AM units.
Interesting! Sounds unintended to me, though. I'd hate to be a Guard player (or AM or whatever) and have all of my tasty strats also ported over to another faction that has it's own (hopefully?) tasty strats. Feels like there's no incentive to play mono-Guard, which is poor design IMO.
Brood bros dont get gsc strats. They get their own stratagems and only if uou take a detachment of brood brothers.
They work like allied guard to a SM list works just with no regiment trait.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the hit penalties for heavy weapons shouldn't apply to vehicles. That's a stupid rule.
About as stupid as not being able to shoot a character out in the open because there happens to be a grot hiding being a wall just a fraction of an inch closer.
Feel free to come up with better rule that doesn't result in rhino sniping like in earlier edition
How about can't target a character if there's a visible enemy unit within 6" of it that's closer?
Also, what is Rhino sniping?
Rhino sniping is using Rhino's (or similar) in a manner that intentionally blocks line of sight to allow the shooting unit to target a unit that would otherwise be an un-targetable unit.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the hit penalties for heavy weapons shouldn't apply to vehicles. That's a stupid rule.
About as stupid as not being able to shoot a character out in the open because there happens to be a grot hiding being a wall just a fraction of an inch closer.
Feel free to come up with better rule that doesn't result in rhino sniping like in earlier edition
How about can't target a character if there's a visible enemy unit within 6" of it that's closer?
Also, what is Rhino sniping?
Rhino sniping is using Rhino's (or similar) in a manner that intentionally blocks line of sight to allow the shooting unit to target a unit that would otherwise be an un-targetable unit.
Oh so that's why they designed the targeting rules as they are...even though it would be less awkward to either allow characters to join units again or make characters untargetable if they are within a certain distance of a unit. But intuitive design is verboten apparently
FatBoyNoSlim wrote: I dont think anyone is argueing that the autogun strat is super powerful, I kinda like it and I am not even saying its great.
I just think that is a good example of what a 1CP strat should be like, a nice little buff that has some tactical flexibility. A 1CP strat SHOULD only let you kill an extra marine whilst getting to deploy much further away, it shouldnt delete a whole enemy unit!
The problem is simply that Marines have broken the game as many of their strats/abilities are extremely powerful but still only cost 1 CP. Now everyone compares anything new with what marines got. But that also means that most new releases are met with disappointment and negativity.
I disagree, it has so little effect that using a limited resource on it makes it terrible, but using the opposite extreme of an undercosted but extremely powerful strat doesn't help matters. There are plenty of strats out there that are 1CP, have a notable effect without being overpowered.
Wait, so a "Brood Brothers" detachment in a 'Forces of the Hivemind' army has access to all of the AM stratagems?! Dayummm. So a buff to AM strats is potentially a buff to GSC too? Right?
Depending on the wording, that could be right. A lot of their strats refer to ASTRA MILITARUM only, so most only affect the Brood Brothers detachment.
However this one refers to friendly units so can easily apply to GSC or Tyranids in the same army. What's more funny is that the new Maleceptor strat to reduce ranged weapon strength on friendly units is worded the same way, so can buff Brood Brothers AM units.
Interesting! Sounds unintended to me, though. I'd hate to be a Guard player (or AM or whatever) and have all of my tasty strats also ported over to another faction that has it's own (hopefully?) tasty strats. Feels like there's no incentive to play mono-Guard, which is poor design IMO.
Sounds like another case of GW not paying any attention to their own keyword system. Remember how Agents of Vect could technically be used by any Drukhari detachment because it didn't require a Kabal of the Black Heart unit to activate.
Well you never know there might be some decent traits.
Everyone slept on CWE traits and master crafters and exarch powers has been really positive for me in terms of making army composition.
Fingers crossed for those crazy Nid worshipping whackos!
However its not looking good.
Twoshoes23 wrote: https://i.redd.it/dd3r7itk34f41.jpg new guard strategem
Reading that strat, I feel like the English language has been strained through a cat, decanted into tiny porcelain cups for mice, who promptly knocked the table over and walked away.
"-1 to hit guard units near a Bullgryn unit." Done.
And, as a bonus, better enough that you might think about using it.
Twoshoes23 wrote: https://i.redd.it/dd3r7itk34f41.jpg new guard strategem
Reading that strat, I feel like the English language has been strained through a cat, decanted into tiny porcelain cups for mice, who promptly knocked the table over and walked away.
"-1 to hit guard units near a Bullgryn unit." Done.
And, as a bonus, better enough that you might think about using it.
Do you know who's also near a Bullgryn unit? The Bullgryn unit itself. Better write that wording to ensure the rule doesn't work on the unit itself.
They could also have specified "non-BULLGRYN" unit or whatever keyword's easiest, I suppose.
The stratagem seems useful, its very presence in the "options deck" of a Guard player means one's opponent has to re-weigh their targeting priorities a bit. I expect it won't actually come into play very often, but the possibility of it being used means Bullgryns will have to tank more shots that might otherwise have been aimed at squishier units near them.
On the other hand, I don't know what unit you'd want within 3" of your own Bullgryns, who I think would want to be in in the thick of it for most of a game.
FatBoyNoSlim wrote: That new GSC autogun strat is not as worthless as some people believe.
As an almost pure neophyte Cult player, I often run multiple full sized blobs of neophytes, armed with Mining Lasers and Grenade Launchers. One of the big problems I have found is being able to cram all my deepstriking shooting into rapid fire range. I have previously got round this by using the Lying in Wait strat to let me get within 3" but it still causes me a big headache when I am Ambushing 120 infantry in a turn.
This lets me have another full blob of infantry Ambush comfortably without losing out on any firepower.
Does the Tau strat allow for more raw damage output. Sure. But the cult strat is a good tool to have and gives the cult more tactical flexibility.
I am personally quite happy with this strat, because it has some good tactical uses, is only 1 CP but isn't totally broken. It is a great example of what a stratagem should be!
I am not a GW fan boy by any means, I think the current state of 8th is really bad thanks to marines. But People cry when GW releases OP stuff and then they also cry when GW releases normal power level stuff. I guess we all wish GW could just be more consistent.
I seem to recall a very recent video I watched saying just this same thing. That starts should be strategic in nature and give you options and not just be spend the points and delete something with the unit that used it. I think I'm picking up what you're putting down.
Agamemnon2 wrote: They could also have specified "non-BULLGRYN" unit or whatever keyword's easiest, I suppose.
The stratagem seems useful, its very presence in the "options deck" of a Guard player means one's opponent has to re-weigh their targeting priorities a bit. I expect it won't actually come into play very often, but the possibility of it being used means Bullgryns will have to tank more shots that might otherwise have been aimed at squishier units near them.
On the other hand, I don't know what unit you'd want within 3" of your own Bullgryns, who I think would want to be in in the thick of it for most of a game.
Agamemnon2 wrote: On the other hand, I don't know what unit you'd want within 3" of your own Bullgryns, who I think would want to be in in the thick of it for most of a game.
Another unit of Bullgryn?
Good point. Still, it's not going to be that hard to winnow down the ablative unit of bullgryns or maneuver around them (trying to shield a large unit with a small one usually only works across a limited arc at a time).
Agamemnon2 wrote: On the other hand, I don't know what unit you'd want within 3" of your own Bullgryns, who I think would want to be in in the thick of it for most of a game.
Another unit of Bullgryn?
Good point. Still, it's not going to be that hard to winnow down the ablative unit of bullgryns or maneuver around them (trying to shield a large unit with a small one usually only works across a limited arc at a time).
I could also see this working if you had a minimum squad of Bullgryn set way back in a defensive position to screen a conscript squad sitting on an objective.
The gem in the bullgryn strat is that it's also a 1 point strat in a list that should have loads of CP and it gives options and they give the defense buff with -1 to hit to any infantry units within 3 of them and not closer to the shooter.
The key there is infantry units, not guard infantry units. Now I don't get why they'd want to entice more soup lists but the strat does give some nice options of units they can tank for then.
Though out of hand if they FAQ it just to guard infantry its pretty useless as most single squads just aren't very worth while to keep safe like that. Making it pretty situational. It's not useless and for 1 point, eh could be good.
It really comes down to if they make it only work for guard infantry or keep it up for soup consideration for if it has some real goodness etched into it.
As for the ambush strat, it won't give you much bang for your buck but I look at it as giving options for force multipliers. More guns, coming in at range for fire and have choice of targets, even just with a lasgun is still useful. They don't have to rock the enemy apart but putting more pressure can be a good tool in the belt.
As someone else said, we have been spoiled with 1 pt strats, most strats we see as good are all the most broke, no brainer choices found for some factions. GW has really broked whatever balance they may have tried to find with strats at this point.
Now is the ambush strategy good ? I'd say its a middle of the road strat but it does offer choices. Again, I think we're looking at the straight killy nature of the strat too heavily, thats not really its purpose. Sometimes a unit coming in and putting out all that fire even if its bad fire, can be enough to draw shots in return, make the enemy nervous, get more units to an area so they can all get their shots in and that may be enough massed up to mean something.
So some may say, and rightly so, it's too weak. For the current meta, it is. However that isn't all the strats fault thats the fact this game has gone off the rails with broke strats and factions so that when we get something usable but not OP it gets put into the worthless column.
Heck, I'm as prone to this as anyone else, just looking at the items power and thinking that sucks. That was my first impression with the Bullgryn strat however looking deeper, it may have some merit. I think the ambush one can as well if only for increasing at small cost force applied to a more targeted area for a turn. Nothing to write home about but being as the game is random, it could have a higher impact depending on the dice.
Not every roll comes out exactly mathhammer and for those times and for things you can't quantify with a die roll is where it'll be worth the point or a waste of time.
I mean it's better than some strats which are literally worthless. Such as that preliminary bombardment strat which I've only ever seen do maybe 1 damage somewhere for a reasonable 2 CPs.
GW is just very inconsistent with ideas of power, use or both.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the hit penalties for heavy weapons shouldn't apply to vehicles. That's a stupid rule.
About as stupid as not being able to shoot a character out in the open because there happens to be a grot hiding being a wall just a fraction of an inch closer.
Feel free to come up with better rule that doesn't result in rhino sniping like in earlier edition
How about can't target a character if there's a visible enemy unit within 6" of it that's closer?
Also, what is Rhino sniping?
You just enabled rhino sniping. It's moving 1+ rhino so there's only tiniest sliver visible to intended target. It used to work like you suggest. People then used rhino's to bypass character protection so suddenly character inside unit was killed just like that.
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CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh so that's why they designed the targeting rules as they are...even though it would be less awkward to either allow characters to join units again or make characters untargetable if they are within a certain distance of a unit. But intuitive design is verboten apparently
Character could be IN unit but as it was only visible target all hits were allocated to him rather than unit he was in.
Twoshoes23 wrote: https://i.redd.it/dd3r7itk34f41.jpg new guard strategem
Reading that strat, I feel like the English language has been strained through a cat, decanted into tiny porcelain cups for mice, who promptly knocked the table over and walked away.
"-1 to hit guard units near a Bullgryn unit." Done.
And, as a bonus, better enough that you might think about using it.
...and you just created a strat for all Bullgryn units to pop to be -1 to hit any time they like. On a unit that is already super-durable that would be a very questionable idea.
The one they wrote is better. The clunky wording is because they are trying to cut down on abuse by clever players interpreting RAW - which is largely what we are asking them to do.
Anyway it is a very good strat. It works well in soup list as there are all sorts of things you might want to protect behind a durable unit of bullgryns. It still has utility in pure guard lists - in early game to screen heavy weapons teams or protect characters from snipers and in the late game for the remains of a bullgryn unit to screen off a unit scoring an objective. Nice little 1CP strat, works with an already top tier unit, will see fairly regular use.
Twoshoes23 wrote: https://i.redd.it/dd3r7itk34f41.jpg new guard strategem
Reading that strat, I feel like the English language has been strained through a cat, decanted into tiny porcelain cups for mice, who promptly knocked the table over and walked away.
"-1 to hit guard units near a Bullgryn unit." Done.
And, as a bonus, better enough that you might think about using it.
...and you just created a strat for all Bullgryn units to pop to be -1 to hit any time they like. On a unit that is already super-durable that would be a very questionable idea.
The one they wrote is better. The clunky wording is because they are trying to cut down on abuse by clever players interpreting RAW - which is largely what we are asking them to do.
Anyway it is a very good strat. It works well in soup list as there are all sorts of things you might want to protect behind a durable unit of bullgryns. It still has utility in pure guard lists - in early game to screen heavy weapons teams or protect characters from snipers and in the late game for the remains of a bullgryn unit to screen off a unit scoring an objective. Nice little 1CP strat, works with an already top tier unit, will see fairly regular use.
That is only if they don't errata it away to say only guard units can benefit from it. GW isn't exactly not known for near immediate changes to published rules that drastically change the useful nature of the strat or rule in question. " Well we just didn't imagine a player would use Bullgryns to screen - insert unit you want to keep safe in a soup list - so we're changing it to be only guard units " then bam it's lost a good chunk of its charm and yes still has use but ends up very changed. That is what I'm worried about each time I see a GW rule and think " This could be cool ".
I'm kinda disappointed GW dedicated a custom Cult Creed trait to a single unit in the GSC roster.
"When a Psychic test is taken for a <Cult> model with this Cult Creed within 6" of another friendly <Cult> unit, you can re-roll any or all dice rolls of 1"
The Patriarch doesn't gain the bonus from Cult Creeds, so this only applies to the psychic test made by a Magus
Additionally we're limited to a single Magus per-detachment, and they're subpar single-cast psykers, so most lists only take one for the extra warlord trait from the Broodcoven strategem...
Yes. And if you do take the Magus for the Brood Coven WL trait, you probably want him to be Bladed Cog for wound re-rolls, 4AE for extra CP, maybe even Hive Cult these days for some shooty re-rolls, etc..
Custom Cult-for-one-unit just kills that. Not to mention that GSC seems to be getting some cult specific spells (despite being limited to only two-one-spell-a-turn-casters-per-detachment-plus-maybe-some-familiars), which were arguably the best thing for Tyranids in Blood of Baal, but made custom hive fleets even less attractive there as well.
At least the Craftworld version of psychic custom trait has the possiblity of going to a Supreme Command of Psykers with plenty of Psykers in there, and even that is less popular than the copy&paste ones taken from Marines like Expert Crafters.
Twoshoes23 wrote: https://i.redd.it/dd3r7itk34f41.jpg new guard strategem
Reading that strat, I feel like the English language has been strained through a cat, decanted into tiny porcelain cups for mice, who promptly knocked the table over and walked away.
"-1 to hit guard units near a Bullgryn unit." Done.
And, as a bonus, better enough that you might think about using it.
...and you just created a strat for all Bullgryn units to pop to be -1 to hit any time they like. On a unit that is already super-durable that would be a very questionable idea.
The one they wrote is better. The clunky wording is because they are trying to cut down on abuse by clever players interpreting RAW - which is largely what we are asking them to do.
Anyway it is a very good strat. It works well in soup list as there are all sorts of things you might want to protect behind a durable unit of bullgryns. It still has utility in pure guard lists - in early game to screen heavy weapons teams or protect characters from snipers and in the late game for the remains of a bullgryn unit to screen off a unit scoring an objective. Nice little 1CP strat, works with an already top tier unit, will see fairly regular use.
What's interesting though is that the bullgryn don't die. Its basically the same sort of thing as grot shields and even costs the same amount of CP, but the user doesn't lose any models because of it.
I hope they apply this sort of system to other armies.
Twoshoes23 wrote: https://i.redd.it/dd3r7itk34f41.jpg new guard strategem
Reading that strat, I feel like the English language has been strained through a cat, decanted into tiny porcelain cups for mice, who promptly knocked the table over and walked away.
"-1 to hit guard units near a Bullgryn unit." Done.
And, as a bonus, better enough that you might think about using it.
...and you just created a strat for all Bullgryn units to pop to be -1 to hit any time they like. On a unit that is already super-durable that would be a very questionable idea.
The one they wrote is better. The clunky wording is because they are trying to cut down on abuse by clever players interpreting RAW - which is largely what we are asking them to do.
Anyway it is a very good strat. It works well in soup list as there are all sorts of things you might want to protect behind a durable unit of bullgryns. It still has utility in pure guard lists - in early game to screen heavy weapons teams or protect characters from snipers and in the late game for the remains of a bullgryn unit to screen off a unit scoring an objective. Nice little 1CP strat, works with an already top tier unit, will see fairly regular use.
What's interesting though is that the bullgryn don't die. Its basically the same sort of thing as grot shields and even costs the same amount of CP, but the user doesn't lose any models because of it.
I hope they apply this sort of system to other armies.
Gw's been trying to give us a way to screen our guys wiuth various strts etc, their first attempt was the salamanders strat, which was, perhaps too good, this one though hits all the right makrs for me. it doesn't mean you can't shoot other units, but it does mean you might wanna shift your targeting priority
Grot shields predate the salamanders strat though.
Did they ever patch the salamanders strat so it can't be abused? I remember the initial wording on that strat made it so that you can basically hide a unit, designate that as the "sacrifice" and make everything within 6" of that unit immortal.
I mean, if you are going to introduce the Iron Curtain (Red Alert reference) to the game, at least make it a LoW unit or a pricey strat.
Bullgryn strat is great, but it's value is almost exclusively in soup IMO, not so much in pure Guard (except maybe some gamey ITC Engineers shenanigans).
To save AM characters, you're probably better off with an Ogryn Bodyguard, especially since snipers could bait that stratagem with (usually) several squishy AM infantry characters about.
Using Bullgryns to shield a pricey allied unit seems to pay off more, especially if you can stack it with another -1 from AdMech Stygies VIII in imperial soup or a Malanthrope in a GSC/Nids soup.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Bullgryn strat is great, but it's value is almost exclusively in soup IMO, not so much in pure Guard (except maybe some gamey ITC Engineers shenanigans).
To save AM characters, you're probably better off with an Ogryn Bodyguard, especially since snipers could bait that stratagem with (usually) several squishy AM infantry characters about.
Using Bullgryns to shield a pricey allied unit seems to pay off more, especially if you can stack it with another -1 from AdMech Stygies VIII in imperial soup or a Malanthrope in a GSC/Nids soup.
I don't know, doesn't seem like a bad idea for HWQ, Command Squads, Veteran Squads and the like.
Granted, they'll probably still be toast after one round against most shooty armies, but the enemy will have to invest more of his shooting into it.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Bullgryn strat is great, but it's value is almost exclusively in soup IMO, not so much in pure Guard (except maybe some gamey ITC Engineers shenanigans).
To save AM characters, you're probably better off with an Ogryn Bodyguard, especially since snipers could bait that stratagem with (usually) several squishy AM infantry characters about.
Using Bullgryns to shield a pricey allied unit seems to pay off more, especially if you can stack it with another -1 from AdMech Stygies VIII in imperial soup or a Malanthrope in a GSC/Nids soup.
Ironically this makes the bullgryn stratagem the best GSC rule they've previewed so far.
Why yes, I will take brood brother bullgryns to get free -1 to hits on my Purestrains. They're one of the few units that aren't strictly worse in BB than they are in AM.
In an actual guard army the Bulgryn strat is only really useful for scion units. It's not enough to protect your characters from eliminators, especially not raven guard and it is useless with regular infantry squads since each bulgryn costs more then a 10 man squad. So if your using a min squad to help protect infantry, you could have just taken another 30 infantry insetad.
Scions on the other hand are often on the front lines where the bulgryn want to be, and usually have problems sticking around once they drop in, this would allow you to drop your scions in behind a shield wall and between take cover and this strat +any psychic powers your at least making the other guy think a bit when he considers target priority.
I think there are far too many weapons in 8th that have very "swingy" shots. The idea that you can walk up to a group of infantry with a flamethrower and only hit one seems a bit silly to me, and the idea that the mighty Battle Cannon might only hit 1 person, and still can miss is just crazy talk. There need to be more D3+1 or D3+6 or D6+whatever weapon types out there to make things a bit more consistent and less random.
I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.
There seems to be some fun stuff in there. I don't think the game needed more overwatching on a 5+, and now guard vehicles have better living metal/demonic resilience then Necrons of chaos with jury rigging. It's also a bit awkward that they named it the exact same thing as the stratagem "jury rigging" but at least they are trying to make the tanks better and sentinels got a bump which is nice.
All in all I'd say the guard preview is the best yet as it clearly attempts to patch the short comings and issues folks have been having while not being overly good. Hopefully the rest of the book matches this and GSC and Tau both level out to this result.
Red Corsair wrote: I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.
I was actually really happy with that wording.
Really happy to see Scions getting doctrines, finally.
Red Corsair wrote: I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.
There seems to be some fun stuff in there. I don't think the game needed more overwatching on a 5+, and now guard vehicles have better living metal/demonic resilience then Necrons of chaos with jury rigging. It's also a bit awkward that they named it the exact same thing as the stratagem "jury rigging" but at least they are trying to make the tanks better and sentinels got a bump which is nice.
All in all I'd say the guard preview is the best yet as it clearly attempts to patch the short comings and issues folks have been having while not being overly good. Hopefully the rest of the book matches this and GSC and Tau both level out to this result.
I'd say the Tau one looked really good to me, but I don't know enough about AM to say whether losing your warlord trait for Tank Aces is a good trade in the way it's an auto take for Tyranids and Adaptive Physioligy.
I also noticed they specifically said there are only 12 regimental doctrines for AM, thats quite a lot less than we've seen for most other factions. Then again, Craftworlds have something like 25 but at least 15 of them are useless, so hopefully this time they actually stopped when they ran out of good ideas.
So, I wonder if these are replacements to the standard scion trait?
And if so, holy mooooly are these new guard rules the ultimate in lazitude.
Literally half the rules they're previewing, the new ones they're showing ahead of time to get you pumped, are copy-pastes of stuff that exists in the codex.
Yowza.
"Here, just...take the ability to reshuffle the different halves of your regiment traits and take what you want. Go away, inferior NPC race!"
Red Corsair wrote: I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.
I was actually really happy with that wording.
Really happy to see Scions getting doctrines, finally.
the_scotsman wrote: So, I wonder if these are replacements to the standard scion trait?
And if so, holy mooooly are these new guard rules the ultimate in lazitude.
Literally half the rules they're previewing, the new ones they're showing ahead of time to get you pumped, are copy-pastes of stuff that exists in the codex.
Yowza.
"Here, just...take the ability to reshuffle the different halves of your regiment traits and take what you want. Go away, inferior NPC race!"
To be fair doesn't that apply to the Space Marine and Craftworlds lists as well? The Tyranids list is the only one that seems to be all unique, but they are considered universally terrible as well.
the_scotsman wrote: So, I wonder if these are replacements to the standard scion trait?
And if so, holy mooooly are these new guard rules the ultimate in lazitude.
Literally half the rules they're previewing, the new ones they're showing ahead of time to get you pumped, are copy-pastes of stuff that exists in the codex.
Yowza.
"Here, just...take the ability to reshuffle the different halves of your regiment traits and take what you want. Go away, inferior NPC race!"
To be fair doesn't that apply to the Space Marine and Craftworlds lists as well? The Tyranids list is the only one that seems to be all unique, but they are considered universally terrible as well.
4/19 of the custom successor chapter traits appear in the normal chapter traits.
IDK how much of the craftworld list was part of the original craftworlds' traits. I don't think any? Unless something like bieltan snuck in there and I didnt' notice.
4/19 of the custom successor chapter traits appear in the normal chapter traits.
IDK how much of the craftworld list was part of the original craftworlds' traits. I don't think any? Unless something like bieltan snuck in there and I didnt' notice.
nah. Should be more than 4
Master Artisan - part of Salamanders
Born Heros - part of Space Wolves
Hungry for Battle - part of Blood Angels
Indomitable - part of Dark Angels
Scions of Forge - a third of Iron Hands
5++ vs. Mortals - part of Black Templars
Psychic re-rolls - part of Blood Ravens
Tactical Withdrawl - part of White Scars
4/19 of the custom successor chapter traits appear in the normal chapter traits.
IDK how much of the craftworld list was part of the original craftworlds' traits. I don't think any? Unless something like bieltan snuck in there and I didnt' notice.
nah. Should be more than 4
Master Artisan - part of Salamanders
Born Heros - part of Space Wolves
Hungry for Battle - part of Blood Angels
Indomitable - part of Dark Angels
Scions of Forge - a third of Iron Hands
5++ vs. Mortals - part of Black Templars
Psychic re-rolls - part of Blood Ravens
Tactical Withdrawl - part of White Scars
Probably more
Right, sorry. Forgot that different codexes count as the same codex when it's convenient, and different codexes when it's inconvenient.
Craftworlds didn't get copy/paste traits from their own codex, but they did get a bunch of copypastes from other codexes, because the original tactics they had didn't get the upgrades that marines' CTs did.
So if you did a copy/paste of Ulthwe, currently 1/3 of the IH chapter tactic, they'd have to port the whole thing over. instead of that, they gave them the 6++ custom trait.
But it's a 400+ points model with relatively short range. We're not seeing many Y'Vahras on the field not because it doesn't put out enough damage, but because it's expensive, relatively fragile and easily screened out.
