On the recent sighting of a one-off small scale Warlord Titan:
Warhams-77 wrote: It is not an Epic model actually, just a fun project from one of the FW guys who made the 28mm Warlord. That was openly communicated when asked about the 'little brother' at the Open Day. This smaller Warlord is larger than the old Imperator titans and not the first of the new model range. It does show well what amount of detail modern kits could come with. They will have to scale it down at least 20% to fit the Epic range. If not 40%.
Warhams-77 wrote: This thread grows fast, hope it hasnt been posted already. Hastings on Warseer is dropping the info bomb now
AFAIK the scope is pretty big, just don't be expecting things overnight, my understanding is we are still a few months out from seeing anything yet. Def full blown epic armies, not sure about how much will be plastic and how much will be resin. I expect rules to be updated where needed. Do not expect to see old sculpts unless they are classics.
I have not heard warmaster discussed, however do not discount it, this is currently in it's infancy. The HH box seems to be well received and not too bad of a price point when you compare the equivalent cost of the minis and the fact there is also a standalone game in there. I don't expect any of it will be "cheap" but it will be more accessible. As I understand it Epic & BB are quite high up the list of priorities.
Originally Posted by BramGaunt
So I'm guessing it will be different from what we are expecting. What we are expecting is a return to how 'specialist games' were run, but what we are probably getting is a branch akin to Fantasy Flight Games that produces GW License board games that double as miniature games.
When I said Bram was spot on I was referring to the fact that SG will not be how it used to be. This team will almost be like a FFG within FW producing our old favourites, not everything is a board game, imagine other classic tabletop games getting an update, doesn't mean they have to change into a boardgame format. Specialist Games ARE coming back, only with a slightly different name with an updated product and not under the direct (incompetent) control of GW.
I have some exciting hobby news to share with you all! Games Workshop has established a Specialist Product Design Studio which will include the existing Forge World Studio but also design, create and develop new models, games and standalone product. But that's not all! The Specialist Design Studio will also be responsible for bringing back some of our old favourite games as well!!!!
As if that wasnt enough, this team is also (and I'm quoting from the announcement for dramatic effect):
"...will also be responsible for maintaining our journey into Middle Earth. It will be the only GW studio that will produce new product to support Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit."
So there you go! How exciting!? New product for the Hobbit? Very exciting!
I was always a fan of Warhammer Quest and Necromunda, why not comment below with the specialist game you'd most like to see return with a reboot or just a reprint?
Akragth wrote: The image was created by the GW Belconnen store manager, as he stated on the Facebook page from which it was taken, not by GWHQ or anything of the like.
This was just posted by two separate members of GW staff on the Australian page:
'Hey Guys,
Official GW words here to confirm Hobbit moving to a specialist studio:
"This studio will also be responsible for maintaining our journey into Middle Earth. It will be the only GW studio that will produce new product to support Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit."
And with that I wish you all a Good Morning.'
It was posted on an Australian FB SBG community group.
The rationale for it going out to Australia first is because of the timezone difference, so if true, confirmation should be rolling out in the next 24 hours worldwide.
Somewhat baffled as to what 'specialist studio' means. Forgeworld perhaps? Either way, if true, it means it's not being dropped, and indeed, new support may be forthcoming. It would be nice if they've decided not to waste their license.
didn't know if I should start a new post on this, but I do not know if it's AoS, HH, or 40k related.
1. Before AoS was released, all GW reps had to spend a few days training on the new product.
2. Last week, all GW reps had to spend a few days training on the Betrayal at Calth.
3. My source (check my rumor tracking for my accuracy rating btw) has informed me that GW reps are going to spend several days next week training for something new. I do not know if it is a big supplement or what system it is for, just that the only time the GW reps go to training in the last year have been only to learn and demo AoS and to learn and demo Horus Heresy. This is the third time they are going for training to learn and demo something, and I do not know what it is.
Mods, feel free to roll this into another topic if it is more appropriate.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Correction: new training for GW reps is THIS FRIDAY.
This Specialist Games thing is happening. It is not a secret within GW as of right now. An internal "Vox Caster" company wide email discusses various aspects of it.
Forge World picking up LotR and actually supporting it (glaring like a basilisk at you, Warhammer Forge or whatever your name was) would be ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC.
Just saw this from the Geelong store (facebook search will find the post, not sure if I can link it):
Good morning Hobbyists!
I have some exciting hobby news to share with you all! Games Workshop has established a Specialist Product Design Studio which will include the existing Forge World Studio but also design, create and develop new models, games and standalone product. But that's not all! The Specialist Design Studio will also be responsible for bringing back some of our old favourite games as well!!!!
As if that wasnt enough, this team is also (and I'm quoting from the announcement for dramatic effect):
"...will also be responsible for maintaining our journey into Middle Earth. It will be the only GW studio that will produce new product to support Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit."
So there you go! How exciting!? New product for the Hobbit? Very exciting!
I was always a fan of Warhammer Quest and Necromunda, why not comment below with the specialist game you'd most like to see return with a reboot or just a reprint?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Great. LOTR/Hobbit gets a specialist studio whilst GW fails to capatalise on any of their existing games - BFG, Necromunda, Epic, Mordheim and so on.
You may have missed this:
But that's not all! The Specialist Design Studio will also be responsible for bringing back some of our old favourite games as well!!!!
Sounds like it may be a new Specialist Games thing.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Great. LOTR/Hobbit gets a specialist studio whilst GW fails to capatalise on any of their existing games - BFG, Necromunda, Epic, Mordheim and so on.
Actually it looks like they are if the rumor is accurate.
Wair, so they're sending LotR/Hobbit and Forgeworld to Specialist Games? Yikes...
You go in the Specialist Games. Specialist Games go in the water. Hobbit's in the water. The Hobbit. Well farewell and adieu to you far Spanish ladies...
Specialist Games returning? Hm.. If this is like Spacehulk returning.. I dunno. If it's like an honest resurrection of Epic, BFG, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Mordheim, Inquisitor, Man-O-War, and Warmaster.. then.. hm.. I may be interested in GW again.
EDIT: Oh.. I forgot about Aeronautica Imperialis or whatever the aerial game was called. I was interested in it too but it was way too pricey to get into for such a niche thing with no player base.
Could this be what the supposed re-briefing of sales reps is about? If this new studio takes on LOTR, there's no reason it couldn't be taking on BFG and Blood Bowl too.
I have a horrible feeling this will be the equivalent of them taking the Hobbit to that farm upstate that Fluffy and Mittens went to.
It's odd though, if I am reading that right the entire FW studio is being folded into this new GW division. Do they not like having separate brands and are trying to consolidate?
It's possible that this new/revived "Specialist Games" that is absorbing FW could be completely sold on the main GW website isn't it, meaning that FW would be on the main site too. I hope to god that this is what happens, and if specialist games make a return I'll be immensely happy, seeing as they all died just as I started up wargaming as a hobby
If they bring back BFG with all the bug and Eldar ships I would be quite pleased. I enjoyed the game for the very short timespan it was out wh e I started war gaming.
If they do bring back the specialist games, I would expect to see Mordheim first as a large number of the warbands can be created with the current WHFB plastics.
So assuming GW is not being split into Games Workshop and Model Workshop, what are the chances this is the beginning of the end for Forgeworld? Could Betrayal at Calth be the first step toward rolling the profitable part of Forgeworld into GW proper so the rest can be cut loose? I mean, if you're in the same boat as The Hobbit... that's not a boat you want to be on.
Ghaz wrote: If they do bring back the specialist games, I would expect to see Mordheim first as a large number of the warbands can be created with the current WHFB plastics.
Except in the Warhammer fluff Mordheim doesn't exist anymore and they're in the process of revamping the Warhammer range. It would have a place as a Warhammer Skirmish game, but wasn't that the whole point of Age of Sigmar? I get that the game scales are still very different, but I don't see Mordheim being the first thing they jump on.
And Mordheim was never in the 'present' of the WHFB setting, occurring some 500 years in the past. Just because WHFB is now Age of Sigmar is inconsequential. Mordheim has the shortest lead time as all it would require is rules and not new miniatures to be produced.
The problem for me is, it's likely too little too late (even if true). Why would I go back to a "specialist" division of GW for, for example, a skirmish game when so many other skirmish games have taken their place?
Still exciting though, and makes so much sense I'm almost not sure if I believe it
I certainly hop this is true. With this and the BFG game, all my BFG dreams will be coming true. And tau might finally get a battleship, instead of a carrier.
RiTides wrote: The problem for me is, it's likely too little too late (even if true). Why would I go back to a "specialist" division of GW for, for example, a skirmish game when so many other skirmish games have taken their place?
Still exciting though, and makes so much sense I'm almost not sure if I believe it
Depends if the rules are worth it. There's two reasons I'm bitter at GW right now - 40k is expensive as fething gak, and the balance is, quite frankly, embarrassing.
However Epic, for example, sidesteps the cost. An Epic army has never been super expensive, even with multiple titans. Redoing Epic in full plastic with 40ks current aesthetic? I'd likely jump in. An accompanying BFG type game? Super awesome. I'd buy the gak out of a new Warhammer Quest/Hero Quest style game (yes, I'm aware of Gamezones Heroquest, but I'm not too big on their model aesthetic).
Not sure I'd ever buy back into a 28mm game at the current prices, but I'd definitely consider their smaller scale stuff. Especially since it fits the fluff so much better with the whole mass war angle.
Yeah, it's true Loki, just trying to keep my hopes / expectations low . But it would be the most exciting thing GW has done in a long, long while in my mind, if true!
Why would anyone go back to GWs specialist games after they gave everyone the big middle finger and got rid of everything. Them being GW will also charge a fething arm and a leg for these 'specialist games'.
If this is true, and if they're truly bringing back BFG and other specialist games as fully-supported tabletop miniature wargames, I will very likely buy from them again. We'll see how this plays out.
overtyrant wrote: Why would anyone go back to GWs specialist games after they gave everyone the big middle finger and got rid of everything. Them being GW will also charge a fething arm and a leg for these 'specialist games'.
Because I like Necromunda a hell of a lot more than I like Deadzone. Chances are good that this is too little, too late with the way they've been jacking up their prices, but GW at least could make something worthwhile out of this.
Is it April 1st? Why would this be announced in an ugly little greeting card written casually by a non-PR person? Are we to believe that GW suddenly dropped their draconian communication policies, brought back Specialist Games, and... Oh gak I just saw a pig fly by outside. brb
I just saw the updated first post.
I really really hope this is not some hoax.
That said.. the old Specialist Prices were a joke and a major barrier at the end. The initial box releases were priced great. If we see boxed games at $100ish, that'll do. If they try to do some $250 nonsense.. well.. we've gotten on this long with the alternatives.
Well, say goodbye to Forge World then. It was a good run while it lasted.
Seriously, the last time they did this they promised rainbows and cotton candy but instead lured poor Charlie to a cave in Candy Mountain and took his kidney.
This studio full of dreams and rainbows?
Are they taking the piss?
I'm not sure if that's condescending. Or if they're trying to say the GW design studio is sub par and they know it, this is the fix?
The image was created by the GW Belconnen store manager, as he stated on the Facebook page from which it was taken, not by GWHQ or anything of the like.
That is, btw, a legitimate GW store FB page. So fake? Seems unlikely, unless he fancies the sack.
Necros wrote: Maybe Specialist Games will make all of the games, because Games Workshop is just a model company?
I do hope this means specialist games will be coming back for real though. That would be real nice.
Specialist Games = games with actual rules
To me it sounds like the old school nerds at FW have been whining about the old SG's long enough, and now GW is saying "fine, do whatever you want with those". So it's more like FW expanding their range.
Also, it only took what, 10 years for GW to notice that other companies making money with SG clones?
Blood Bowl does not need GW's support and there's also Dreadball
Epic has been replaced years ago by Dropfleet commander and that Spartan Game
BFG see above
Necromunda would suffer vs all the other skirmish games like infinity, malif etc.
Mordheim vs Frostgrave...
prowla wrote: To me it sounds like the old school nerds at FW have been whining about the old SG's long enough, and now GW is saying "fine, do whatever you want with those". So it's more like FW expanding their range.
Also, it only took what, 10 years for GW to notice that other companies making money with SG clones?
Except that for the past few years the only thing FW has put out is HH Marines. I really don't see how they have the room to take on and support these other games. Still, we may see a return of their old Epic/BFG modes to the catalog.
Akragth wrote: The image was created by the GW Belconnen store manager, as he stated on the Facebook page from which it was taken, not by GWHQ or anything of the like.
That is, btw, a legitimate GW store FB page. So fake? Seems unlikely, unless he fancies the sack.
This looks legit to me (otherwise that Aussie manager is toast lol).
Also the most exciting and common sense thing GW has done in a long time, if done well, imo! Not sure it would get me to buy back in to any of those games, but still very cool
Well, that announcement is kind of sad. This is a hoax, and a low-budget one at that. Could they not be bothered to take an extra ten seconds to run the spellchecker?
If this is true it could be pretty cool. I've always been intrigued by things like Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Inq28, Mordheim, even LotR but I got there a little late so it would be cool to see them brought back.
GW Belconnen made the image to hype what he's heard. It's what I figured.. a non-artist made it to circulate. What exactly it means.. well.. we'll have to see.. could be exciting.. could be disappointing..
Guildsman wrote: Well, that announcement is kind of sad. This is a hoax, and a low-budget one at that. Could they not be bothered to take an extra ten seconds to run the spellchecker?
Too many stores have confirmed it for it to be a hoax. The poor quality image has already been explained.
jinnai wrote: Figured now is a better time than ever to join dakka.
If Matt from the Hobart store is saying it's true, then it is. Guy is one of the most honest people around.
Just have to see now what we'll be receiving from this.
Thanks for that, jinnai! And welcome to Dakka
People seem to be missing that this is just a flyer made by a single store. If there's a spelling error, it's just that one person's mistake... the fact that we're getting the news like this is not their fault, but GWHQ for not telling us what the heck they're doing even a few days out (or even after the point of having stores in some parts of the world publicly reveal it!).
Breotan wrote: Well, say goodbye to Forge World then. It was a good run while it lasted.
That does concern me. Currently FW is the one area in GW that seems to be run by adults. BL used to be like FW, but got sucked into the Horus Heresy vortex or endless padding, and have yet to recover. FW on the other hand go out of their way to show of previews, hold proper seminars, get people excited for their products, act as part of the miniature gaming hobby (rather than acting like a hobby unto themselves) and generally act like a miniature company should.
I'm worried that the people making these decisions will not be making decisions for this larger entity, and GW's Iron Curtain of Needless Secrecy will fall upon FW as well.
If this is a hoax then it is a collusion between several Australian managers. In a few hours whats new today should update, it will be interesting to see if it mentions anything.The next white dwarf is just paints and stuff, so it is a good time to announce something like this.
P.S
What if one of the old favourites they are bringing back is warhammer?
Pps. Forgeworld is currently hiring for artists and designers. Maybe they are staffing up.
Breotan wrote: Well, say goodbye to Forge World then. It was a good run while it lasted.
That does concern me. Currently FW is the one area in GW that seems to be run by adults. BL used to be like FW, but got sucked into the Horus Heresy vortex or endless padding, and have yet to recover. FW on the other hand go out of their way to show of previews, hold proper seminars, get people excited for their products, act as part of the miniature gaming hobby (rather than acting like a hobby unto themselves) and generally act like a miniature company should.
I'm worried that the people making these decisions will not be making decisions for this larger entity, and GW's Iron Curtain of Needless Secrecy will fall upon FW as well.
I just read it as FW will be contributing some models towards it (like they do/did for 40k) rather than they were completely being brought into this new department but I don't know.
Guildsman wrote: Well, that announcement is kind of sad. This is a hoax, and a low-budget one at that. Could they not be bothered to take an extra ten seconds to run the spellchecker?
Games Workshop spelled the names of their own models incorrectly in official legal filings presented in court. Never underestimate them.
Breotan wrote: Well, say goodbye to Forge World then. It was a good run while it lasted.
That does concern me. Currently FW is the one area in GW that seems to be run by adults. BL used to be like FW, but got sucked into the Horus Heresy vortex or endless padding, and have yet to recover. FW on the other hand go out of their way to show of previews, hold proper seminars, get people excited for their products, act as part of the miniature gaming hobby (rather than acting like a hobby unto themselves) and generally act like a miniature company should.
I'm worried that the people making these decisions will not be making decisions for this larger entity, and GW's Iron Curtain of Needless Secrecy will fall upon FW as well.
I just read it as FW will be contributing some models towards it (like they do/did for 40k) rather than they were completely being brought into this new department but I don't know.
I can't imagine them doing much more than letting the rules stand as is (an occasional PDF update, maybe) and just releasing the odd model here and there, and producing old ones. Still so much better than it was, though, with everything being OOP for no good reason (easy to allow things to be mail ordered / cast on demand).
I'd be very happy if they recast old minis and rereleased old rules.
My worst fear at this point (other than it being a hoax) is that they produce crappy snap fit plastics that can't compare to the old metals and the rules are all Age of Sigmarfied.
And I say that as an Australian who also has to fear a BFG starter set costing $300 for 10 ships.
Bringing back 'specialist' games seems like a good idea, but this is gw so i'm expecting the implementation to be horribly flawed. Would be nice to find i'm wrong, but, this is gw.
Before getting too excited about the possibility of seeing the reboot of games from 10-20 years ago, do keep in mind that even if by some Christmas miracle this actually happens, we won't see the prices of 10-20 years ago. Get ready to cough up a lung.
Wow, this could be a great thing. Yes, there are other game systems that does things better than the GW predecessors, but I like thestyle of the BFG models quite a lot, so I would be all over that!
And LotR with Support? That would be great! I never got into the game when the movies came out and regret it to this day.
MeanBone wrote: Before getting too excited about the possibility of seeing the reboot of games from 10-20 years ago, do keep in mind that even if by some Christmas miracle this actually happens, we won't see the prices of 10-20 years ago. Get ready to cough up a lung.
MeanBone wrote: Before getting too excited about the possibility of seeing the reboot of games from 10-20 years ago, do keep in mind that even if by some Christmas miracle this actually happens, we won't see the prices of 10-20 years ago. Get ready to cough up a lung.
I've been paying eBay prices in the interim. So it can't be that bad. (eBay search 'Necromunda Escher' if you want to see horribly inflated prices).
Those eBay prices will fall when the models are no longer OOP.
MeanBone wrote: Before getting too excited about the possibility of seeing the reboot of games from 10-20 years ago, do keep in mind that even if by some Christmas miracle this actually happens, we won't see the prices of 10-20 years ago. Get ready to cough up a lung.
Not to mention that GW prices from 10 years ago were already ridiculous, for Epic especially; £1 per 6mm infantry figure?
My biggest worry should this be true is that they 'reboot' the rules. GW simply can't be trusted to go that anymore. Some of the Specialist games badly need an overhaul, Necromunda springs to mind, but it needs to be done carefully and competently.
MeanBone wrote: Before getting too excited about the possibility of seeing the reboot of games from 10-20 years ago, do keep in mind that even if by some Christmas miracle this actually happens, we won't see the prices of 10-20 years ago. Get ready to cough up a lung.
Not to mention that GW prices from 10 years ago were already ridiculous, for Epic especially; £1 per 6mm infantry figure?
My biggest worry should this be true is that they 'reboot' the rules. GW simply can't be trusted to go that anymore. Some of the Specialist games badly need an overhaul, Necromunda springs to mind, but it needs to be done carefully and competently.
In my opinion Necromunda doesn't need any overhaul. I actually dislike all the changes GW added in and still play by the original book rules.
As an aside, isn't it amusing our hypothetical situation we talked about is possibly coming true? :-)
overtyrant wrote: Why would anyone go back to GWs specialist games after they gave everyone the big middle finger and got rid of everything. Them being GW will also charge a fething arm and a leg for these 'specialist games'.
Because I like Necromunda a hell of a lot more than I like Deadzone. Chances are good that this is too little, too late with the way they've been jacking up their prices, but GW at least could make something worthwhile out of this.
I to much prefer Necromunda over DZ. But the statement still stands, why would you support a company that doesn't care about their customers and will pull support from a product without blinking an eye? How long ago did GW pull the support after relegating a bunch of games to SG that needed only a bit of support?
overtyrant wrote: Why would anyone go back to GWs specialist games after they gave everyone the big middle finger and got rid of everything. Them being GW will also charge a fething arm and a leg for these 'specialist games'.
Because I like Necromunda a hell of a lot more than I like Deadzone. Chances are good that this is too little, too late with the way they've been jacking up their prices, but GW at least could make something worthwhile out of this.
I to much prefer Necromunda over DZ. But the statement still stands, why would you support a company that doesn't care about their customers and will pull support from a product without blinking an eye? How long ago did GW pull the support after relegating a bunch of games to SG that needed only a bit of support?
In my opinion Necromunda doesn't need any overhaul. I actually dislike all the changes GW added in and still play by the original book rules.
The core rules are fine, the campaign rules are not. Something along the lines of the Mordheim campaign rules would have worked much better. I am currently in a Necromunda campaign and I had forgotten just how bad the advancement rules are. The updated rules are indeed worse, whoever came up with the the 'house weapons' rules should be ashamed of themselves.
Giving Forgeworld oversight of 'Specialist games' is something that should have happened 15 years ago but better late than never.
If true and IF handled well this is the first good thing that GW has done in years. Maybe their serious financial situation has finally made the denziens of GW towers change their hidebound view of their products.
Given that a lot of these games are currently being used for various levels of computer games, it's always been surprising that they haven't done tie ins. Maybe they've finally realised that.
First news in the morning the Specialist Games department idea (or a kind of) will be resurrected. Hmm...
The older concepts always felt like they remove products, main GW is actually not bothering with anymore, from their main portfolio and put it somewhere else.
In my opinion Necromunda doesn't need any overhaul. I actually dislike all the changes GW added in and still play by the original book rules.
The core rules are fine, the campaign rules are not. Something along the lines of the Mordheim campaign rules would have worked much better. I am currently in a Necromunda campaign and I had forgotten just how bad the advancement rules are....
YMMV then but I always loved the campaign rules, especially the random nature of advancements.
Epic (Armageddon) still is my favourite game and i still have all the other "Specialist games" too (BFG, Warmaster, Blood Bowl, Man O'War, ...) and the only game i don't care much about is Man-O-War, the rest i like(d).
We still play Epic and Blood Bowl once and again.
And I think it would not be a bad choice for GW to do this.
GW has left a big hole by stopping these games that competitors filled with their games, so the market is there.
If GW re-introduces these games using plastics like they started each game with anyway (only later on they used metl and resin), i expect it to sell.
Well, we will see...
And if they would write a DECENT real skirmish game (activation per model) instead of Necromunda / Mordheim / GorkaMorka (the only fun one IMO), they move onto the market most competitors are in.
Well if this turns out to be accurate, I'll be very happy, been thinking about epic a lot lately just put off by the difficulty to collect fresh armies, Necromunda as well, and there is always room for Blood Bowl.
So the new ceo said he do would a top down review of the company. Maybe he asked why gw is sitting on a bunch of popular, potentially money making properties and doing nothing with them. A new ceo for any company wants to put thier own stamp on things. Maybe this is it. If this is true, worst case is new crappy rules and recast minis at high prices. Best is BAC style starters using the old rules and new minis in resin. I am almost ashamed to admit this but I would pay £100 for a new version of mordheim with new minis.
ORicK wrote: If GW re-introduces these games using plastics (like they started each game with anyway (only later on they used metl and resin), i expect it to sell.
Thing is, if they're being merged with forgeworld i suspect resin will be the primary material used. Hopefully fw resin and not gw "its not called finecast anymore" resin.
- Would SO play Epic. Love the idea of 40k-scale battles in a miniature scale that actually makes sense.
- Already play Necromunda and have run two campaigns this year. Have no problem with the rules but wouldn't mind some cool tweaks and improvements to the campaign system. I would especially love some more narrative elements (love those random tables!). Multi-part plastic kits would be insane though, although only if Jes Goodwin did the Escher again.
- Would definitely play Mordheim. I probably could already with the same people I play Necromunda with, but I only have so much time. If they re-released I don't know if I could resist.
- BFG looks really cool, but... I feel like I'm mentally invested in Dropfleet already. Don't know what I'd do if they were to re-release it honestly. I'm not really invested in the aesthetic of BFG like I am in the 40K aesthetic. The ships aren't as iconic and the designs don't do much for me. I feel like Dropfleet wins this one.
I would be jumping all over Necromunda personally. I have 6 gangs already so may as well go full hog and get the remaining 4~6 (if including Pit Slaves and Ash Waste Nomads).
I would also get into blood bowl if the local GW ran a league or had a pitch in store. I was never tempted when I was younger, but now just collecting 10 models and having some light hearted fun seems great.
ORicK wrote: If GW re-introduces these games using plastics (like they started each game with anyway (only later on they used metl and resin), i expect it to sell.
Thing is, if they're being merged with forgeworld i suspect resin will be the primary material used. Hopefully fw resin and not gw "its not called finecast anymore" resin.
I don't expect plastics as they are simply too expensive to produce. If there are new 'Specalist games' models I don't expect that there will be many and they will be resin. What I think will probably happen is that the rules will appear officially online (probably paid for) with minor updates, FW will dig out the surviving masters and re-release old models and that's about it. In other words the cheapest possible option.
I'll quote the GW Washington announcement here for those who don't want to go on Facebook:
Good evening Hobbyists!
I have some exciting hobby news to share with you all! Games Workshop has established a Specialist Product Design Studio which will include the existing Forge World Studio but also design, create and develop new models, games and standalone product. But that's not all! The Specialist Design Studio will also be responsible for bringing back some of our old favourite games as well!!!!
As if that wasnt enough, this team is also (and I'm quoting from the announcement for dramatic effect) "...will also be responsible for maintaining our journey into Middle Earth. It will be the only GW studio that will produce new product to support Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit."
So there you go! How exciting!? New product for the Hobbit? Very exciting!
I have always a fan of Battlefleet Gothic, Epic Armageddon, and many of the other specialist games. Why not comment below with the specialist game you'd most like to see return with a reboot or just a reprint?
Cheers
Matthew
Well I hope he didn't just quote the previous Australian GW post, it is really weird to make such an announcement in the middle of the week thought, especially two days before another unrelated big release.
- Would SO play Epic. Love the idea of 40k-scale battles in a miniature scale that actually makes sense.
There is nothing stopping you playing it now. The rules are easily found online and if you pick Marines/Orks/Guard then its not all that expensive, especially with third party stuff such as:
Hmmm still smells fishy as gw purged the masters for most of those games years ago.
Also maybe there was a misundersatnding by a GW minion and what was really said was that FW are joining specialist games now the heresy is going to be plastic.
Chikout wrote: So the new ceo said he do would a top down review of the company. Maybe he asked why gw is sitting on a bunch of popular, potentially money making properties and doing nothing with them. A new ceo for any company wants to put thier own stamp on things. Maybe this is it. If this is true, worst case is new crappy rules and recast minis at high prices. Best is BAC style starters using the old rules and new minis in resin. I am almost ashamed to admit this but I would pay £100 for a new version of mordheim with new minis.
I wonder if this has anything to do with that Matt (can't remember his name) fellow moving from Mantic to GW? Also not sure why everyone is getting excited about BB all everyone did in that game was cage cage cage, they may of 1 to themselves they won't cage but before the end of the first half that's what they would be doing.
Silent Puffin? wrote: I don't expect plastics as they are simply too expensive to produce.
If nothing else, it would be foolish not to make a House Cawdor/Redemptionist plastic kit - it doesn't even matter whether or not they're popular for Necromunda, because zealous Emperor-worshippers rising up to go kill some xenos/heretics/witches are a great fit for 40K too.
SeanDrake wrote: Hmmm still smells fishy as gw purged the masters for most of those games years ago.
Also maybe there was a misundersatnding by a GW minion and what was really said was that FW are joining specialist games now the heresy is going to be plastic.
Why would they continue to use 20-year-old masters? The modern production processes are far far better than anything from the 90's. If GW want to put out quality products they'd basically need to re-design pretty much everything from that era. I think only the stuff Forge World produced around a decade ago would pass muster now.
I'm sooo hyped about this! (if that's really what's going to happen). Wanted to try BFG for years, but just couldn't due to skyhigh ebay prices and a general lack of interest in my lgs (because it was oop, no longer supported, blablabla, etc, etc)
I don't expect plastics as they are simply too expensive to produce. If there are new 'Specalist games' models I don't expect that there will be many and they will be resin. What I think will probably happen is that the rules will appear officially online (probably paid for) with minor updates, FW will dig out the surviving masters and re-release old models and that's about it. In other words the cheapest possible option.
The cost of plastics is essentially tied to the size of the production runs. I could plausibly see them doing high-run core sets (such as Epic infantry or common tanks like Rhino variants) on plastic sprues; these are the sort of kits you need to buy multiple boxes of to start an army. Smaller run products like super-heavies and Titans would be done in FW resin.
- Would SO play Epic. Love the idea of 40k-scale battles in a miniature scale that actually makes sense.
There is nothing stopping you playing it now. The rules are easily found online and if you pick Marines/Orks/Guard then its not all that expensive, especially with third party stuff such as:
My club plays more Epic than anything else.
I'm already running a dead game (Necromunda) all the while playing 40k, AoS, Deadzone and soon Dropfleet and maybe Bolt Action... so I don't think I could muster the will (or indeed the interest) to resurrect another one at the club :-) People simply aren't interested in starting new games, especially ones that aren't supported. But if they re-released it and people were excited for it, I would jump on.
In theory, this is great. More support for LotR is nice (if very, very late), but the price, as always, has to be considered. I'd love to start a Necromunda or Mordheim band up, but my gut feeling says it'd be far easier on the wallet to use the fan editions online and source the minis from Reaper/Hasslefree/Heresy ect.
Silent Puffin? wrote: I don't expect plastics as they are simply too expensive to produce.
If nothing else, it would be foolish not to make a House Cawdor/Redemptionist plastic kit - it doesn't even matter whether or not they're popular for Necromunda, because zealous Emperor-worshippers rising up to go kill some xenos/heretics/witches are a great fit for 40K too.
It would be foolish not to re-release them as Fraternis Militia for the SoB.
It would be foolish not to re-release the (FANTASTIC) redemptionist priests as IG priests.
It would be foolish not to re-release the pit slaves as an Adeptus Mech unit.
It would be foolish not to re-release the Enforces as Inquisition Henchmen.
It would be foolish not to re-release some of the gangs as IG conscripts or vets.
There's a lot of foolishness about how GW has handled the Necromunda line.
Well, it's great to see that this is not a hoax (with GW facebook pages confirming it both in Aus and the US now!). I just wish we knew more details... but if that is what the manager training is about tomorrow in the US, that could mean more is forthcoming soon:
didn't know if I should start a new post on this, but I do not know if it's AoS, HH, or 40k related.
1. Before AoS was released, all GW reps had to spend a few days training on the new product.
2. Last week, all GW reps had to spend a few days training on the Betrayal at Calth.
3. My source (check my rumor tracking for my accuracy rating btw) has informed me that GW reps are going to spend several days next week training for something new. I do not know if it is a big supplement or what system it is for, just that the only time the GW reps go to training in the last year have been only to learn and demo AoS and to learn and demo Horus Heresy. This is the third time they are going for training to learn and demo something, and I do not know what it is.
Mods, feel free to roll this into another topic if it is more appropriate.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Correction: new training for GW reps is THIS FRIDAY.
Has somebody posted my wishlist online and it's become a rumour?
If there was one way for GW to get me spending big bucks on them again it was to re-release BFG or Epic or Necromunda.
All three at once....... I need to start working more overtime.
I must have become jaded over the years, as I expect GW to find a way to screw this up. Either AoS the rules, or change the scale of the models. More than likely they will price this to high heaven or make it a ltd edition that sells out to ebay scalpers while only a pre-order.
overtyrant wrote: I wonder if this has anything to do with that Matt (can't remember his name) fellow moving from Mantic to GW? Also not sure why everyone is getting excited about BB all everyone did in that game was cage cage cage, they may of 1 to themselves they won't cage but before the end of the first half that's what they would be doing.
That is what i personally like about Blood Bowl. Blood Bowl is, just like the sport Rugby/Football, for a big part about caging and avoiding being tackled.
The BB alternatives we have are different degrees more toward freefight and normal skirmish, but with a ball.
If i want to play skirmish game, i play a skirmish game. If i want to play a fantasy football game, i play Blood Bowl. IMO it still is the "best-of-breed" in this category.
In 28mm skirmish i am still looking for something that i find good.
Which is another thing as if i find a game fun to play.
I have and play a lot of games that are enough fun, but i would never call them good, some i might call good enough ;-)
If it were a hoax, a whoooole bunch of GW store managers would be getting fired for enthusiastically posting it / promoting it on their store facebook pages
It's definitely legit... the question is, what is there to it? Hopefully the training really is regarding this, and GW managers will be armed with some actual info on what it entails soon...
I am guessing just old model re-releases for most of these ranges, and making the rules available somehow, but I think it'd be overly optimistic to hope for updates to them.
I live in Belconnen (about 5 mins from the GW that made the poster) and I can confirm this is legit. How it is implemented is of course yet to be seen. Either way, exciting times! I'd be peeved if I'd just bought piles of (really expensive) BFG models on eBay as a lot of the local guys have been doing.
RiTides wrote: If it were a hoax, a whoooole bunch of GW store managers would be getting fired for enthusiastically posting it / promoting it on their store facebook pages
It's definitely legit... the question is, what is there to it? Hopefully the training really is regarding this, and GW managers will be armed with some actual info on what it entails soon...
I am guessing just old model re-releases for most of these ranges, and making the rules available somehow, but I think it'd be overly optimistic to hope for updates to them.
A re-release of the old models would be good enough for me. Especially as they would most likely be in resin, anyone with large metal BFG ships will know why that's a bonus. Also anything that means my existing armies for these games don't get invalidated.
It would be great to see new models coming out, even if it was just new starter sets or a single release for each game each month. Plastic multipart gangs for necromunda, or new epic titans in the style of the forge world models would be top of my wish list.
It does sound too good te be true.
But i really really hope it is...
My alltime wish was a campaign system combining BFG, Epic and 40k. So i wrote one with some international help.
And then GW cancelled both BFG and Epic, so many (potential) players sold part of their BFG/Epic stuff, because there was no future in it.
But as Spartan games has Firestorm Armada and Planetfall, has HALO Fleet Battles and will get HALO ground warfare next yer, Dropzone Commander gets Dropfleet Commander...
It is clear that there is a market for these two levels of wargame. I AM a market for these...
I hope GW will return to this market.
This could explain why a guy I know who works for Forge World told me to keep an eye on their site. I thought it would be because of bundle deals for Calth but it could be this.
If this is true, I wonder why the sudden change? Is this a "Lob EVERYTHING at the market and we'll see what sticks and sells..." attempt to reverse a decline? AoS not doing as well as they hoped? Cash being invested back into the company?
I doubt this is a reaction to AoS sales, these things require planning long in advance of any announcement. We also don't have any idea what form it will take. A slow drip of brand new editions in board game format? Re-releases of old models? What? It'll be very interesting for sure.
If they want a cash cow you just release epic as "siege of the emperors palace" plastic core marine models, plastic scenery and some plastic Titans. Ding ding ding we have a winner. Still not sold on the rumour with how the info was released, essentially a major restructuring (involving a licensed product as well) being announced via store Facebook? I still feel that if this is true someone's getting fired for jumping the gun.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Still not sold on the rumour with how the info was released, essentially a major restructuring (involving a licensed product as well) being announced via store Facebook? I still feel that if this is true someone's getting fired for jumping the gun.
Agreed - reminds me of the big rush of rumours a few years ago when several implausable rumours appeared at once. When that all died down, everyone reckoned that those rumours were an attempt at flusing out leakers. They managed to flush out several who all leaked the rumours they were told
I do wonder if this has anything to do with New Line and the LotR license. Given how strict they've been with the terms of the license in the past (there were reports of they insisting GW scrap the Smaug they had made and do it again in a 'proper' scale') they could well have taken issue with the fact that GW renewed the rights but have done sod all with them for the better part of a year.
So if NL told them to get their act together, and GW decided they might as well spin it off into this. Give LotR some token support, while spinning it so they look like saviours of all these beloved game systems and hope that we all forget it was GW that killed them in the first place...
Paradigm wrote: I do wonder if this has anything to do with New Line and the LotR license.
This is highly likely, I think that GW included all the other games just to see what would happen (and to tie in with the various computer games that are being released).
So it appears it's not just the guys on the other side of the world going crazy!
That's just worded in that the Specialist Games department WILL have Forgeworld and LOTR/Hobbit. There's hints at other specialist games but no actual confirmation. I wonder if GW Aus has got the wrong end of the stick?
Maybe this is just a marketting ploy to test out the reaction to see if they should reprint anything?
IF (big if) GW are doing this, dont assume it is in order to make a profit. I've always regarded all of those games as a type of Gateway Drug. More properly known as a loss leader, i think. GW might have just realised they arent getting enough new customers without them. If GW control the intro games and the main games again they might think they can start to reestablish some of the bran loyalty that people never even develop these days.
Thing is looking at ebay prices for some epic and BFG, any price GW puts on some of the models will be cheaper.. some things are literally going for insane money at the mo.
I couldn't be more happy about those news.
Thank god, I didn't start a 30k legion - I will spend all my hobby budget on Mordheim/Necromunda/Bloodbowl/Epic
Great times ahead.
One can only hope they simplify the BfG Ruleset to make it an alternative to Star Wars Armada.
TBH I've spent so long outside the GW ecosystem it's irrelevant to me. I played the Specialist games (where applicable) as extensions of the 28mm ones, as part of multi-system campaigns. I don't play 40k any more because the rules are terrible and the prices don't represent value to me, so I don't have a reason to play the Specialist games again.
I'd consider playing Epic scale HH because it's just a much more appropriate scale IMO.
I'm also not interested if this is going to be limited run stuff.
Herzlos wrote: That's just worded in that the Specialist Games department WILL have Forgeworld and LOTR/Hobbit. There's hints at other specialist games but no actual confirmation. I wonder if GW Aus has got the wrong end of the stick?
This is probably closer to the truth and that some managers took that to mean that BFG, Epic, etc will be re-done as well.
Just had a quiet chat with someone who told me the two day meeting was about the Christmas period. No mention of this was made at all. He doubted they'd do this as it'd distract from the Christmas Sales period. All taken with the usual caveats of course...
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Thing is looking at ebay prices for some epic and BFG, any price GW puts on some of the models will be cheaper.. some things are literally going for insane money at the mo.
Some things do, 'Nids for example, but the common stuff can often be bought cheaper than its original RRP fi you don't mind a bit of stripping.
I bought most of a Marine Chapter for £40 on Ebay, vehicles included (except for Whirlwinds and predators).
Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...
but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?
And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...
but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?
And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
Ok, definitely doubt this now. Heard from another (very distant low in the food chain) contact who said this was from an internal restructure. This studio incorporates the Forgeworld Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy brands along with the LoTR/Hobbit Brands into a single division. He heard no mention of Specialist Games and the only similarities are in the name of the division.
Alright so this Facebook thing is from my local gw, and as much as I wouldn't doubt him being able to pull a prank I don't think he'd like the possible backlash.
This is a sign he has made for us locals and is news from high up so I'm calling it official. Everyone can celebrate
zedmeister wrote: Ok, definitely doubt this now. Heard from another (very distant low in the food chain) contact who said this was from an internal restructure. This studio incorporates the Forgeworld Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy brands along with the LoTR/Hobbit Brands into a single division. He heard no mention of Specialist Games and the only similarities are in the name of the division.
Well the FB announcement does make it sound like the part about returning old games could be conjecture on their part...
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.
That's all second place when toy soldiers are concerned. Marines over morals!
Also I don't really have any moral qualms in the case of GW, there are so many companies doing FAR worse things in other sectors, things that kill people, cause irreversible damage to the environment etc, so copyright bullying over miniatures is pretty low on my list of grudges.
This does sound awesome and I have always wanted to get in to Epic but I am worried that if this is true, it's just going to be a lot more stuff that isn't going to be supported.
It's all well and good bringing this stuff back out but will they provide updates and FAQs where necessary. If 40k is anything to go by then I don't know if it's such a good idea. Hopefully they might gain the responsibility of providing updates to existing games as well.
We'll have to wait and see but this is welcome news none the less.
Personally, I don't care if they don't support the old Specialist Games - I have been managing fine without GW's support or help for years now. However, if they start re-releasing old miniatures that would be most welcome, as some of the Ebay scalper prices are outrageous.
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.
You know, every time GW does something wrong and Dakka calls them out on it, apologists trot out the line, "Well Dakka is always unhappy with GW regardless of what they do, so your complaints mean nothing!"
This thread shows that isn't true. People here do actually enjoy this hobby, and honestly believe that GW is sitting on a decent IP which has a strong draw for customers. There's no need to get all doom and gloom yet - so far, there is no evidence of wrongdoing. It looks (again, for the moment) that GW may be trying to correct a mistake. This is a good thing. It will remain a good thing until the evidence shows an agenda otherwise.
Something else that's said here on Dakka is "People can like a game and still dislike the company that makes it." This is something GW apologists often cannot understand, because they cannot separate GW from their hobby. That statement is just as true here. People really liked Epic and BFG - there's no shame in being happy to (hopefully) see their return. You can be happy about this and still take issue with GW's behavior; I know I certainly do. But if GW does more stuff like this (things I like) and less of their inane, paranoid, nonsense-business (which I do not like), then my opinion of them may start to change, if only slightly. After all, attitudes aren't immutable, and I'm fine giving credit where it's due.
Of course, if they come back and have lone frigates costing $80 without flight stands, or $200 individual Epic warlord titans, I'm gonna be very upset (but not especially surprised).
Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...
but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?
And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
It's funny how people expect FAQs these days. What a privileged lot we are! *in old man voice* In my day we made up rules of our own. It's funny how things change. Now everyone the world over has to be on the same page rules wise, and everything needs to be balanced! The golden age of GW in the 90s had none of this.
Fifty wrote: IF (big if) GW are doing this, dont assume it is in order to make a profit. I've always regarded all of those games as a type of Gateway Drug. More properly known as a loss leader, i think. GW might have just realised they arent getting enough new customers without them. If GW control the intro games and the main games again they might think they can start to reestablish some of the bran loyalty that people never even develop these days.
The same GW that canned them because they took profit away from their main lines and seems to be working on a very short term view?
IF specialist games come back, I expect them to be like Spacehulk - single run unsupported box drops to bag an easy 10k box sales. MAYBE some will be followed up with new mini support, but it'll be sporadic at best.
I'm quite excited about Blood Bowl (and a new store opening near me I can play in) but I'll be stunned if it's anything more than a minimum effort affair like AoS.
They have been bringing out things that seem to appeal to vets, and a broken clock is always right twice a day, so I could be wrong.
So they are bringing games out that will go no further no new units ?
Bfg was a good game but one of the least balanced games (of the time) not sure why bother and bloody metal battleships can remember trying to balance them on the stands the first time.
Now if they redone the metal models to plastic and add some new units and rebalance then great but odds of all this is none excistent.
As for rereleaseing epic 40k it was the worst game in gw history release the old epic this is not good news
I never gotten the chance to play any of the specialist games. So it's a win win if they truely are thinking of re-releasing stuff like Mordheim/Necromunda/BFG I do am making a Mordheim gang though.
Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...
but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?
And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.
Fair enough. No pleasing some people I guess...
Not having a go at you, but I remember the Chapterhouse thread and the hand wringing from dakka members about 'evil' GW, but now it's all yeah, I hate them, I hate them so much I'm going to show how much I hate them by walking into their stores and buying their stuff. That'll show them.
Do me a favour.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
filbert wrote: Personally, I don't care if they don't support the old Specialist Games - I have been managing fine without GW's support or help for years now. However, if they start re-releasing old miniatures that would be most welcome, as some of the Ebay scalper prices are outrageous.
I'm not one for giving advice, but I'll give some anyway
When dealing with GW, it's once bitten twice shy, as far as I'm concerned.
What if I don't care about chapterhouse? I'm willing to be most people don't, and will be happy to see a game they loved or never got to try will be coming back.
Hell, I'm willing to bet most people who play 40k or consume GW products don't even know who chapterhouse was.
It's not chapterhouse per se, it's GW's behaviour during the whole thing. Even if you dislike CHS, you have to acknowledge that GW's way of operating is pretty dodgy?
Anyway, the timing of this seems way off - it's announced 2 days before the HH box hits the shelf and in the run up to Christmas? Unless they bring out a specialist box in the next few weeks releases, they've just cannibalized their own sales. I've already seen people abandon the HH box to keep money for Blood Bowl / Necromunda.
I'm sticking with the gut reaction here - someone in Aus has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and is going to be issuing an apology once GWHQ notice. It's 11am here, so some of them might be rolling into the office or finishing off their game of golf, give it a few hours.
RoninXiC wrote: Why would we "return" to the specialist games?
Blood Bowl does not need GW's support and there's also Dreadball
Epic has been replaced years ago by Dropfleet commander and that Spartan Game
BFG see above
Necromunda would suffer vs all the other skirmish games like infinity, malif etc.
Mordheim vs Frostgrave...
Yeah, it's not going to be that successful.
Because for some of us products are not valueless interchangeable equivalents? Epic & BFG blow Spartan's exploding-6 nonsense out of the water from my perspective & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale, and I have zero interest in the other "alternatives" because they have one major key flaw; they're not GW Specialist Games. They don't have the background, they don't have the aesthetic, the rules play completely differently in many cases, so playing them isn't even remotely the same.
And it won't be successful? I'd say that depends entirely on GW. A lot of folk play those other games because they can't find/create a sustainable SG group in their area since the rules and minis are all OOP, and they'd rather play a small-model-scale mass combat game or fleet game, or a scifi gang warfare game than nothing at all. Then you have folk like me who're only in wargaming for the 40K/Realhammer Fantasy universes and who've been pottering away on SG stuff regardless of whether GW supported them or not. These games have a huge amount of goodwill and nostalgia, so literally all GW have to do is not colossally feth up reintroducing them(say, by pricing BFG ships like the current OOP models on ebay, or by AoS'ifying the rules/background of Mordheim) and they're going to struggle not to be successful.
All that said, I spent about five minutes having a wee squee moment and then quite deliberately forced down my enthusiasm beneath the layer of cynicism that is my default mode, because we are talking about GW here, and if anyone can take a fundamentally brilliant idea and flush it down the toilet with a combination of insane pricing and total failure to understand why their own product was so well received previously, it's GW.
Breotan wrote: Well, say goodbye to Forge World then. It was a good run while it lasted.
That does concern me. Currently FW is the one area in GW that seems to be run by adults. BL used to be like FW, but got sucked into the Horus Heresy vortex or endless padding, and have yet to recover. FW on the other hand go out of their way to show of previews, hold proper seminars, get people excited for their products, act as part of the miniature gaming hobby (rather than acting like a hobby unto themselves) and generally act like a miniature company should.
I'm worried that the people making these decisions will not be making decisions for this larger entity, and GW's Iron Curtain of Needless Secrecy will fall upon FW as well.
This is the other big concern. We can only hope that this is GW recognising & rewarding FW's success by basically giving the people running it more resources and a bigger remit, rather than GW swooping in to try and appropriate that success with all their usual lack of subtlety, elegance, and intelligence.
I suppose we won't have to wait that long to find this one out though; if we start getting info about this new group and what they're going to be up to fairly soonish, we can surmise the FW attitude will likely prevail. If we get a standard GW "BIG NEWS EVERYBODY! This thing is happening. Yes, fantastic isn't it? Oh bee-tee-dubz, it'll be out next week, prepare your wallets." statement when the news hits their own website, we can crack a nice bottle of scotch and toast the memory of FW-that-was.
Herzlos wrote: It's not chapterhouse per se, it's GW's behaviour during the whole thing. Even if you dislike CHS, you have to acknowledge that GW's way of operating is pretty dodgy?
Anyway, the timing of this seems way off - it's announced 2 days before the HH box hits the shelf and in the run up to Christmas? Unless they bring out a specialist box in the next few weeks releases, they've just cannibalized their own sales. I've already seen people abandon the HH box to keep money for Blood Bowl / Necromunda.
I'm sticking with the gut reaction here - someone in Aus has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and is going to be issuing an apology once GWHQ notice. It's 11am here, so some of them might be rolling into the office or finishing off their game of golf, give it a few hours.
Yep, I think a certain manager in GW Aus is going to be sacked good and hard!
Hastings on Warseer has said that all he's seen that's been confirmed is the re-org & Hobbit support, nothing about the specialist games we're getting excited about.
Not that it's impossible; we do know that they had a Blood Bowl relaunch ready to go and pulled it due to Dreadfleet sales.
Herzlos wrote: Hastings on Warseer has said that all he's seen that's been confirmed is the re-org & Hobbit support, nothing about the specialist games we're getting excited about.
Not that it's impossible; we do know that they had a Blood Bowl relaunch ready to go and pulled it due to Dreadfleet sales.
I thought he also implied he believed this would be limited run stuff, but I'll caveat that by saying I was having some difficulty following the obscure comments he was making on that.
Well I'm certainly cheered by the possibility of Sg coming pack and with all Plastic/resin models to boot if GWs current direction is anything to go by.
Bad news for eBay scalpers I'm sure, but I wouldn't expect old SG prices. New divisions have overheads....
Nontheless I'll be over in the corner sitting on this pile of salt I found.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And I just found out that Sepp Blatter is in Hospital, what a day!
Honestly, I don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand I play Epic and have played Necro and would like to play BFG. On the other hand, current policy of writing poor rules and selling models for more expensive than the guys on ebay has me worried about it.
It would be nice to have some new opponents and access to high quality rank and file stuff. However, I could see this going as a mini release of some board game like they did with dreadfleet a while back. A lot of over designed models with terrible rules that no one ever plays.
Time will tell I guess. No sense getting to excited until game rules and designs start coming in.
So Hastings ramblings on warseer seem to imply the following
- new department for specialist games as part of FW - department was responsible for new HH game
- will be responsible for lotr/hobbit
- have access to plastic design/tooling for releases
- would be the department that releases any further new properties/properties reborn
Standalone games, well there is a market - big enough for GW to invest into.
Re-Releases of great games, still played and loved? Does GW get their investment back? Not so sure actually. Clearly GW main is not interested in that vendor, as they closed sale of them not so long ago.
@nedT - You're obviously not playing Warmaster/Necromunda/Mordheim. All are selling 2nd hand for high prices, with some scarce/rare models at frightening prices - just look up a Brettonian Trebuchet or anything Vampire Counts/Skaven for Warmaster. Can be 5x the last GW price for starters!
I love Necromunda and would like to see modern tooled plastics for it, the same with Epic. If anything, even modern GW prices would see the Imperator Titan cost come down compared to the current ebay costs.
They should probably start with warmaster though. I prefer sci-fi but that was the best rule set GW ever produced.
Mmmmmm not all that bad news as I really enjoyed the specialist games. So if it turns out to be true that they are coming back then fantastic ! The support for lotr/hobbit is also very welcome as this is still a game I really enjoy playing so all in all a pretty good piece of news for me.
@notprop Exactly but that is - as much as love these systems and also buy older stuff for them second hand - probably not the size of a peer group GW wants to sell to. It is profitable in small scales. But what caused axing SG in 2013 if not low sales?
I was always interested in Necromunda and BFG but the thought of ruining expensive metal models was too much for me to handle (I was 10 when I first saw them) and I never got in. Now, hopefully, I've got a shot Would using a large painted globe be in scale with bfg models? Would love to start a narrative campaign that begins with a space battle. I'm set with imperial ships due to third parties and tyranids are easy enough to kitbash but I'd love some plastic chaos and eldar ships
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: So Hastings ramblings on warseer seem to imply the following
- new department for specialist games as part of FW - department was responsible for new HH game
- will be responsible for lotr/hobbit
- have access to plastic design/tooling for releases
- would be the department that releases any further new properties/properties reborn
Yeah, this has the ring of truth around it. For example, we know from inference that Forgeworld is one of the areas of GW that is doing well so giving them a bit more freedom to do well can only help overall. Also, Alan Bligh is a colossal BFG fan...
MacMuckles wrote: I was always interested in Necromunda and BFG but the thought of ruining expensive metal models was too much for me to handle (I was 10 when I first saw them) and I never got in. Now, hopefully, I've got a shot Would using a large painted globe be in scale with bfg models? Would love to start a narrative campaign that begins with a space battle. I'm set with imperial ships due to third parties and tyranids are easy enough to kitbash but I'd love some plastic chaos and eldar ships
The actual "scale" of BFG ships is a tiny, tiny point at the end of the flight stand. The ship model is just representative. So you can use whatever you want for a planet; generally people use a flat cardstock cutout or a half-sphere of some kind so it's clear on the table where the planet is.
Competitors have already carved up the void left by specialist games' demise, I think this is probably too late for GW, but all the same more games are always a good thing.
nedTCM wrote: Honestly, I don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand I play Epic and have played Necro and would like to play BFG. On the other hand, current policy of writing poor rules and selling models for more expensive than the guys on ebay has me worried about it.
It would be nice to have some new opponents and access to high quality rank and file stuff. However, I could see this going as a mini release of some board game like they did with dreadfleet a while back. A lot of over designed models with terrible rules that no one ever plays.
Time will tell I guess. No sense getting to excited until game rules and designs start coming in.
Indeed. I wouldn't give GW much benefit of the doubt when it comes to gamedesign these days.
If a new studio is formed and given reasonable autonomy from GW proper, there could be some good stuff coming out for sure. I wouldn't get my hopes up until I see concrete results though.
Good Morning Maidstone Well i have return from the Games workshop HQ with great news infact fantastic news, which is.........=+-=-=-=))))@@@ in code till Saturday 14TH NOV so i say to all of you come into the store on Saturday morning and find out, this also coinsides with the release of Bettrayal At Calth on Saturday
Fifty wrote: Now on the GW Maidstone Facebook wall:
Good Morning Maidstone Well i have return from the Games workshop HQ with great news infact fantastic news, which is.........=+-=-=-=))))@@@ in code till Saturday 14TH NOV so i say to all of you come into the store on Saturday morning and find out, this also coinsides with the release of Bettrayal At Calth on Saturday
- Would SO play Epic. Love the idea of 40k-scale battles in a miniature scale that actually makes sense.
There is nothing stopping you playing it now. The rules are easily found online and if you pick Marines/Orks/Guard then its not all that expensive, especially with third party stuff such as:
My club plays more Epic than anything else.
This. The SGs are already out there. No need to rip out a kidney to appease the GW idol. The actual minis - or suitable minis - might be less forthcoming, but there are people working on them all the time, at the mo.
I had a small, official, Space Marine Army for Epic. I sold it so I could rebuild it with Troublemaker and Onslaught miniatures. I still will, even if this clattery rumour turns out to be true.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...
but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?
And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.
A bit hyperbolic maybe, but y'know, I get it. Especially when people start e-running around like headless chickens, calling the fantastic rush of new games 'SG clones' etc. as if GW is the one, true, games publisher. I guess all it takes is GW to mutter: "Ah'm sorry, baby. Ah di'n't mean tuh get so mad, but you make me do it..."
Akshullee, no, that's not quite accurate. This is a case of a friend of a friend of GW's, muttering "Ah'm sure he's sorry, ma'am. Ah wud guess he di'n't mean to take on so, but he's so crazy ovuh you..."
Mymearan wrote:
Also I don't really have any moral qualms in the case of GW, there are so many companies doing FAR worse things in other sectors, things that kill people, cause irreversible damage to the environment etc, so copyright bullying over miniatures is pretty low on my list of grudges.
Is Volkswagen the new Ferrari?
10penceman wrote:
As for rereleaseing epic 40k it was the worst game in gw history release the old epic this is not good news
It all seems half a**Ed
This isn't rampant fan speculation that they're rereleasing Epic 40K.
It's rampant fan speculation that they're rereleasing Epic: Armeg - beg pardon - Armageddon.
Agreed with that last bit, though.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Not having a go at you, but I remember the Chapterhouse thread and the hand wringing from dakka members about 'evil' GW, but now it's all yeah, I hate them, I hate them so much I'm going to show how much I hate them by walking into their stores and buying their stuff. That'll show them.
Do me a favour.
I remember plenty of stuff like that, even without the Chapterhouse thing. It was always 'I'm gonna stop buying from GW! Just as soon as I've finished my 19,732pts of Space Marines..."
I would be interested if SG somehow made a comeback, to be honest. Back when they were first canned I really hoped GW would rethink it's decision. But now, so much water's gone under the bridge that this gossip of a hint of a rumour of some guy down the pecking order actually fills me with some sort of dread. I would be interested if SG somehow made a comeback - but I'd want anyone other than GW to make it happen.
So the Aussies jumped the gun. It is looking more and more likely that this is true. Hastings and Lady Atia have confirmed some aspects of this. Just need to hear from Sad Panda for the trifecta.
Warhams-77 wrote: @notprop Exactly but that is - as much as love these systems and also buy older stuff for them second hand - probably not the size of a peer group GW wants to sell to. It is profitable in small scales. But what caused axing SG in 2013 if not low sales?
Lots of reasons for a reversal of decision, mostly money driven but;
They could well have dropped SG in the belief that they were cannibalising the main lines. A few years of flat/falling figures could have shown them that this might nit be the case or the opposite, i.e. they are now perceived as a Gateway to the main systems.
There could also have been the perception that the few million quid of revenue they generated was coming at the cost of staff that could have generate more on the main systems, this could also have been proved to not be the case.
GW management might have given into pressure from Jervis Johnson/others again to start it up; they have lost a few big names over the last few years and might not want to lose those that remain.
GW need to increase revenue after a couple of less than stellar financial reports. A big release of a specialist game would deliver this revenue. Space Hulk sold 70k units at £65, so nearly £5M. Epic was the "3rd" system before LotR so this would have a good possibility of the same sort of business with an all singin & dancin' box. Ditto Bloodbowl, Necromunda and Mordheim.
They might also want to leverage the current popularity of the Video Games like Vermincide, Mordheim and in time Total War: Warhammer & BFG; Allot of the SG titles dovetail with these.
New CEO/chairman/Whatever is his own man is happy to go back if he sees a mistake.
Did I mention the desperately needed turnover, stock prices always need a little tickle.
Warhams-77 wrote: @notprop Exactly but that is - as much as love these systems and also buy older stuff for them second hand - probably not the size of a peer group GW wants to sell to. It is profitable in small scales. But what caused axing SG in 2013 if not low sales?
Space Hulk.
They probably realized that they had painted themselves into a corner with SG. Years of neglect had left holes in the range, many of the people who pioneered the games had left the company and any attempt to raise prices (GW's favorite past-time) would result in people just not buying the models anyway, so why not kill it off? Then the "this game doesn't exist anymore" paired with the "we did feth all for this game in terms of expansion/advertising" time period gives them a nostalgia window to cash in on with big splash releases like Space Hulk. Now they bring back the game, bump up the price and people will go "sure it's SOUNDS expensive to pay $50 for two plastic cruisers, but have you seen what they go for on eBay? It's a steal!"
Mildly tin-foil hat at the end there, but as far as a business plan goes it's actually not terrible to let the field lie fallow for a little while to gain more freedom in what they do with the range and actually figure out a direction for it. I doubt that's reality, because in the Kirby-as-CEO era I can't muster the belief there was any long-range planning on anythng creative, but it is a plausible theory.
Chikout wrote: So the Aussies jumped the gun. It is looking more and more likely that this is true. Hastings and Lady Atia have confirmed some aspects of this. Just need to hear from Sad Panda for the trifecta.
Just the bits no-one is getting excited about though? Or do you have a link / quotes?
Man, there are some seriously jaded folks here.
"Bring back specialist games! This sucks!"
"Hey guys, we're bringing back specialist games!"
"Psh, no you're not. Lies. Don't believe it."
I mean, GW has done a lot that hasn't thrilled me, but I believe in rewarding good behavior, and they're actually trying to be good right now (bringing back specialists, multiple new board games at reasonable prices that are real 40k models...).
Some of you guys are making me feel real dirty for siding with the white knights on this one!!
Good points, notprop. I don't think the CEO has much more influence though than others in the company, but thats minor if the general trend in HQ would change the way you describe it. Would be great indeed if that came true. We will know more soon I guess, with rumors pointing at official announcements on Sat, 14th of November.
timetowaste85 wrote: Man, there are some seriously jaded folks here.
"Bring back specialist games! This sucks!"
"Hey guys, we're bringing back specialist games!"
"Psh, no you're not. Lies. Don't believe it."
I mean, GW has done a lot that hasn't thrilled me, but I believe in rewarding good behavior, and they're actually trying to be good right now (bringing back specialists, multiple new board games at reasonable prices that are real 40k models...).
Some of you guys are making me feel real dirty for siding with the white knights on this one!!
Not seeing any real evidence of the return of specialist games here. FW and Lotr/hobbit news, yes. SG? wild and rampant speculation.
How about making a specialist fantasy game of massed army combat, with ranks, files etc? That'd be pretty cool. I believe that they may already have something that they discontinued and could just reprint.
timetowaste85 wrote: Man, there are some seriously jaded folks here.
"Bring back specialist games! This sucks!"
"Hey guys, we're bringing back specialist games!"
"Psh, no you're not. Lies. Don't believe it."
I mean, GW has done a lot that hasn't thrilled me, but I believe in rewarding good behavior, and they're actually trying to be good right now (bringing back specialists, multiple new board games at reasonable prices that are real 40k models...).
Some of you guys are making me feel real dirty for siding with the white knights on this one!!
We haven't actually seen them do anything yet though.
Well, Battle of Calth contains models at reasonable prices (at least by GW standards they certainly are) but people are rewarding that behavior by purchasing those boxes 'en masse' so I think your criticism is misplaced.
As a LOTR/Hobbit fan this is great news for me particularly with the hint that there would be new releases on the way.. The return of some of the specialist games would be good news as well.
I remember a comment in the last results along the line of we are looking at ways to be more have more price point options. I wonder if the smaller scale of some of the specialist games would open an avenue for this. I am thinking of individual team members for blood bowl, individual BFG ships etc
Graphite wrote: How about making a specialist fantasy game of massed army combat, with ranks, files etc? That'd be pretty cool. I believe that they may already have something that they discontinued and could just reprint.
timetowaste85 wrote: Man, there are some seriously jaded folks here.
"Bring back specialist games! This sucks!"
"Hey guys, we're bringing back specialist games!"
"Psh, no you're not. Lies. Don't believe it."
I mean, GW has done a lot that hasn't thrilled me, but I believe in rewarding good behavior, and they're actually trying to be good right now (bringing back specialists, multiple new board games at reasonable prices that are real 40k models...).
Some of you guys are making me feel real dirty for siding with the white knights on this one!!
It is sometimes surprising just how much people hate GW to the core, but you can't say it wasn't manufactured.
Really that aren't bring very good though. The price of regular models is super high. Rules for multiple systems are in the toilet. They still have updated most of their neglected factions. And the best communication we have gotten from them in years is some random facebook page or two from specific stores. And we don't know jack about these SG they are releasing. Some one on 4chan was like get ready for AOS Blood Bowl now with more Marines! However, that is actually one of the better things that could happen. A bunch of watered down board game that it just there to generate model sales for the main lines would be a huge let down.
It is kind of silly to get too optimistic is all. It is nice news, but I will be excited when I see something more concrete.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: [Not seeing any real evidence of the return of specialist games here. FW and Lotr/hobbit news, yes. SG? wild and rampant speculation.
Two store managers mentioned SGs. A bit more than wild and rampant speculation, right?
Timezone shenanigans aside, Wondering if the fact UK/Europe still appear to be waiting on a source for this is because the majority of the AoS backlash/'ragequitting' of GW seems to be focussed in US/Aus/NZ.
'Official' leaking in those areas to try and head off people abandoning GW totally...?
I think it's more that people have seen enough of GW to be skeptical that they'd actually do something the customers want.
Like I said though, it's possible they have realised it's a good idea, it's also possible they've hit a good idea by accident. Most likely it's a communications mistake somewhere.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: [Not seeing any real evidence of the return of specialist games here. FW and Lotr/hobbit news, yes. SG? wild and rampant speculation.
Two store managers mentioned SGs. A bit more than wild and rampant speculation, right?
Store managers know less about what's going on than we do. 1 didn't outright say they'd be coming, just asked if we'd be interested. This could easily be a huge fethup.
Edit: Reading between the (bold) lines, hastings is confirming it. I'll remain pessimistic but I'm putting some money aside for Blood Bowl.
Crazyterran wrote: What if I don't care about chapterhouse? I'm willing to be most people don't, and will be happy to see a game they loved or never got to try will be coming back.
Hell, I'm willing to bet most people who play 40k or consume GW products don't even know who chapterhouse was.
GW's chapterhouse's legal case was without a shadow of a doubt, the worst legal transaction since the Native Americans sold New York for two glass beads and a moth eaten blanket to the Dutch!
GW's defence was basically if it's on a Space Marine, we own the copyright, even if it's a Roman numeral!
It was that bad.
Leaving aside GW's incompetence, has anybody forgotten their shabby treatment of retailers? Ask Mikhalia about GW's strategy to generate interest ahead of their AOS launch.
GW: We've got this super duper new release out on Saturday.
Mikhalia: That's very short notice, but I'll try my best to build terrain, generate interest, get some tables up and running and organise a launch night. What is this new product?
GW: We can't tell you, except it's coming out on Saturday.
Mikhalia: Can you give me a clue? Is it dice, paints, a game? Donald Trump's new toupee?
GW: We can't tell, you, sorry, but it's awesome.
Mikhalia: Throw me a bone, let me make you some money. Tell me what it is and I'll pre-order 5 million copies in! I'll build interest, get my local community excited about this.
GW: Sorry.
Mikhali: It's Saturday, and nobody gives a about AOS because nobody knew it was coming out...
KOW: Hi Mikhalia, our new game's coming out, and we've got loads to tell you about it and we want retailers like you to get involved big time.
Graphite wrote: How about making a specialist fantasy game of massed army combat, with ranks, files etc? That'd be pretty cool. I believe that they may already have something that they discontinued and could just reprint.
That'd be Warmaster.
Ok, granted.
No reason they couldn't have two, though... one of which still has the rulebooks up on Black Library.
- Would SO play Epic. Love the idea of 40k-scale battles in a miniature scale that actually makes sense.
There is nothing stopping you playing it now. The rules are easily found online and if you pick Marines/Orks/Guard then its not all that expensive, especially with third party stuff such as:
My club plays more Epic than anything else.
This. The SGs are already out there. No need to rip out a kidney to appease the GW idol. The actual minis - or suitable minis - might be less forthcoming, but there are people working on them all the time, at the mo.
I had a small, official, Space Marine Army for Epic. I sold it so I could rebuild it with Troublemaker and Onslaught miniatures. I still will, even if this clattery rumour turns out to be true.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...
but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?
And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?
If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.
I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.
GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?
I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.
A bit hyperbolic maybe, but y'know, I get it. Especially when people start e-running around like headless chickens, calling the fantastic rush of new games 'SG clones' etc. as if GW is the one, true, games publisher. I guess all it takes is GW to mutter: "Ah'm sorry, baby. Ah di'n't mean tuh get so mad, but you make me do it..."
Akshullee, no, that's not quite accurate. This is a case of a friend of a friend of GW's, muttering "Ah'm sure he's sorry, ma'am. Ah wud guess he di'n't mean to take on so, but he's so crazy ovuh you..."
Mymearan wrote:
Also I don't really have any moral qualms in the case of GW, there are so many companies doing FAR worse things in other sectors, things that kill people, cause irreversible damage to the environment etc, so copyright bullying over miniatures is pretty low on my list of grudges.
Is Volkswagen the new Ferrari?
10penceman wrote:
As for rereleaseing epic 40k it was the worst game in gw history release the old epic this is not good news
It all seems half a**Ed
This isn't rampant fan speculation that they're rereleasing Epic 40K.
It's rampant fan speculation that they're rereleasing Epic: Armeg - beg pardon - Armageddon.
Agreed with that last bit, though.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Not having a go at you, but I remember the Chapterhouse thread and the hand wringing from dakka members about 'evil' GW, but now it's all yeah, I hate them, I hate them so much I'm going to show how much I hate them by walking into their stores and buying their stuff. That'll show them.
Do me a favour.
I remember plenty of stuff like that, even without the Chapterhouse thing. It was always 'I'm gonna stop buying from GW! Just as soon as I've finished my 19,732pts of Space Marines..."
I would be interested if SG somehow made a comeback, to be honest. Back when they were first canned I really hoped GW would rethink it's decision. But now, so much water's gone under the bridge that this gossip of a hint of a rumour of some guy down the pecking order actually fills me with some sort of dread. I would be interested if SG somehow made a comeback - but I'd want anyone other than GW to make it happen.
It's not for me to tell people what to buy and not to buy, but it's a very sad day for dakk if somebody like myself is occupying the moral high ground! Never though I'd live to see that.
Yodhrin wrote: ..... & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale.....
Dropfleet will probably feature larger fleets than BFG did, with the same number of elements on the board with the addition of planetary landings. It arguably has a better sense of scale than BFG does and physically the models will be about the same size.
Dropzone on the other hand feels significantly 'smaller' than Epic, not least because the model count is a lot smaller but then it is10mm.
As for GW's morality well they are certainly prone to doing dubious things but then I am not likely to be buying anything from them, except perhaps if the full range of Epic minis were re-released. As GW abandoned the field years ago other companies have moved in, to the extent that its now possible to get proxies for just about anything in the former SG ranges.
I am currently building a 4000 point Epic Ork army and only about 10% of it will be GW models and that's only because I already own them.
Crazyterran wrote: What if I don't care about chapterhouse? I'm willing to be most people don't, and will be happy to see a game they loved or never got to try will be coming back.
Hell, I'm willing to bet most people who play 40k or consume GW products don't even know who chapterhouse was.
GW's chapterhouse's legal case was without a shadow of a doubt, the worst legal transaction since the Native Americans sold New York for two glass beads and a moth eaten blanket to the Dutch!
GW's defence was basically if it's on a Space Marine, we own the copyright, even if it's a Roman numeral!
It was that bad.
Leaving aside GW's incompetence, has anybody forgotten their shabby treatment of retailers? Ask Mikhalia about GW's strategy to generate interest ahead of their AOS launch.
GW: We've got this super duper new release out on Saturday.
Mikhalia: That's very short notice, but I'll try my best to build terrain, generate interest, get some tables up and running and organise a launch night. What is this new product?
GW: We can't tell you, except it's coming out on Saturday.
Mikhalia: Can you give me a clue? Is it dice, paints, a game? Donald Trump's new toupee?
GW: We can't tell, you, sorry, but it's awesome.
Mikhalia: Throw me a bone, let me make you some money. Tell me what it is and I'll pre-order 5 million copies in! I'll build interest, get my local community excited about this.
GW: Sorry.
Mikhali: It's Saturday, and nobody gives a about AOS because nobody knew it was coming out...
KOW: Hi Mikhalia, our new game's coming out, and we've got loads to tell you about it and we want retailers like you to get involved big time.
See the difference...
The only reason I would care about that stuff is because it decreases sales and fosters resentment in the community, driving players away. Morally, like I said earlier, there are MUCH worse things to be outraged about.
zedmeister wrote: Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...
Apologies if I'm mixing Hastings up with someone else, but isn't this the same Hastings guy who's predictions are so bad, he would struggle to predict snow in winter?
Yodhrin wrote: ..... & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale.....
Dropfleet will probably feature larger fleets than BFG did, with the same number of elements on the board with the addition of planetary landings. It arguably has a better sense of scale than BFG does and physically the models will be about the same size.
Dropzone on the other hand feels significantly 'smaller' than Epic, not least because the model count is a lot smaller but then it is10mm.
As for GW's morality well they are certainly prone to doing dubious things but then I am not likely to be buying anything from them, except perhaps if the full range of Epic minis were re-released. As GW abandoned the field years ago other companies have moved in, to the extent that its now possible to get proxies for just about anything in the former SG ranges.
I am currently building a 4000 point Epic Ork army and only about 10% of it will be GW models and that's only because I already own them.
They're specifically aiming to have battles roughly the size of BFG. If BFG is just re-released, I believe that DfC will be the better game. If they actually come up with a reworked, modern ruleset for BFG that offers something unique and make new high quality models in resin or plastic (including new designs), I'd be REALLY happy to have two awesome space fleet combat games.
zedmeister wrote: Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...
Apologies if I'm mixing Hastings up with someone else, but isn't this the same Hastings guy who's predictions are so bad, he would struggle to predict snow in winter?
zedmeister wrote: Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...
Apologies if I'm mixing Hastings up with someone else, but isn't this the same Hastings guy who's predictions are so bad, he would struggle to predict snow in winter?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: So Hastings ramblings on warseer seem to imply the following
- new department for specialist games as part of FW - department was responsible for new HH game
- will be responsible for lotr/hobbit
- have access to plastic design/tooling for releases
- would be the department that releases any further new properties/properties reborn
Do you have a quote / link to this so I can update the OP?
Asked my local GW manager this morning if the Aus stuff was true and he said he hadn't heard anything, but did note it was early in the day.
He just added 'better get out your tap dancing shoes' to the post, nothing else, but I know him well enough, that he wouldn't have said anything if he hadn't seen something that marks this as true.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Asked my local GW manager this morning if the Aus stuff was true and he said he hadn't heard anything, but did note it was early in the day.
He just added 'better get out your tap dancing shoes' to the post, nothing else, but I know him well enough, that he wouldn't have said anything if he hadn't seen something that marks this as true.
If BFG really is coming back, I will be very happy. And if it means Forgeworld will do a 30K supplement for it with some models of the various legion flagships, I will pee myself.
Yodhrin wrote: ..... & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale.....
Dropfleet will probably feature larger fleets than BFG did, with the same number of elements on the board with the addition of planetary landings. It arguably has a better sense of scale than BFG does and physically the models will be about the same size.
Dropzone on the other hand feels significantly 'smaller' than Epic, not least because the model count is a lot smaller but then it is10mm.
I meant "sense of scale" in more poetic terms; when I play a game of BFG I'm controlling a fleet of ships that are kilometres-long, commanding crews that number in the tens of thousands, throwing away attack craft markers that represent whole squadrons and unleashing torpedoes the size of skyscrapers by the dozen. In fluff terms, BFG battles can decide the fate of whole sectors of space, Dropfleet seems to be equivalent to taking command of a couple of escorts and some troop landers during one single wave of a planetary assault. There's nothing wrong with it if that's what you're into, but I enjoy that "grand armada" feeling even if mechanically there's not a huge amount of difference beyond one game playing out on a starfield table and the other a high-orbit-planet-texture table.
Tannhauser42 wrote: If BFG really is coming back, I will be very happy. And if it means Forgeworld will do a 30K supplement for it with some models of the various legion flagships, I will pee myself.
Well, I hope you're rich, because if GW's track record is anything to go buy, you'll be paying $100 per ship
all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.
This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.
Makes sense to have fw take over the hobbit/lotr. Fine cast is ending and much of the range is finecast. My smaug is forgeworld quality if not better, and looks like that is where it came from.
Not sure about the lot plastics though, I am assuming gw would still be making these.
I have spent a cap ton of lotr this past month as I thought the game was becoming extinct (and it is such a good game with balance!). Looks like I can finally curb my lot spending just in time for the holidays.
all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.
This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.
Which would mean a lot of start up costs for new moulds, I presume? And those moulds aren't cheap if memory serves.
GW is cash strapped as it is - I can't see this happening.
AOS seems to be going down quicker than the Titanic and nostalgia for BFG will only take them so far.
1. Looks like GW realized that they could try to get some of the money that they're not making from the Oldhammer movement,
2. There is no way I'd be interested in specialist stuff at modern GW prices.
Which brings me to
3. For me, these games never left - Except for BFG, they're all on my shelves.
I think that's what worries me so much about this announcement.
The first is that we may see these rules updated by GW's current team. The only reason they've stood the test of time and been popular despite the lack of direct support is because the rules are still pretty good (since they were written by all the Old Guard). Can you imagine GW's current bunch of no-names trying to update Blood Bowl? Or BFG?
The second is the prices. Like the HH in plastic, this is another "smash in case of emergency" option by GW, and I'd put money down that we'll see stuff like 5 plastic 6mm Leman Russ' for $50, or Space Marine battle group in 6mm for $150.
all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.
This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.
GW still sell a (small) number of metal models on their website - I doubt that all of these have been in stock since 2011 (although I am happy to be contradicted).
Not sure about the metal comment. I am sure they did this for the models that they replaced with finecast, but not their current metal models they are still producing.
Some of the lotr stuff I bought (including the troll character buhrder) were out of stock and then brought back. They are metal and I was told by gw that he was not oop and they were making more. Well they did and I bought one, within the past few months!
Even if the old equipment is gone, it doesn't mean they don't have old metal masters in a warehouse somewhere, that could be easily used to create resin molds.
And couldn't they start with the old plastics? Like the BFG ships? And didn't Mordheim just come with sprues for what became the Empire free companies? Or, games like Mordheim could easily include minis from the current range, just build your warband out of 10 or so different minis from your favorite army.
all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.
This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.
GW still sell a (small) number of metal models on their website - I doubt that all of these have been in stock since 2011 (although I am happy to be contradicted).
"We haven't stocked metal miniatures in stores since the release of Citadel Finecast (May/ June 2011), so the only metal miniatures that will be at stores will be either special orders or old stock; our own stores would have sent metal product back in 2011, but independent retailers have more control over their stock."
Can post screenshot of conversation if you'd like.
This thread grows fast, hope it hasnt been posted already. Hastings on Warseer is dropping the info bomb now
AFAIK the scope is pretty big, just don't be expecting things overnight, my understanding is we are still a few months out from seeing anything yet. Def full blown epic armies, not sure about how much will be plastic and how much will be resin. I expect rules to be updated where needed. Do not expect to see old sculpts unless they are classics.
I have not heard warmaster discussed, however do not discount it, this is currently in it's infancy. The HH box seems to be well received and not too bad of a price point when you compare the equivalent cost of the minis and the fact there is also a standalone game in there. I don't expect any of it will be "cheap" but it will be more accessible. As I understand it Epic & BB are quite high up the list of priorities.
Originally Posted by BramGaunt
So I'm guessing it will be different from what we are expecting. What we are expecting is a return to how 'specialist games' were run, but what we are probably getting is a branch akin to Fantasy Flight Games that produces GW License board games that double as miniature games.
455_PWR wrote: Not sure about the metal comment. I am sure they did this for the models that they replaced with finecast, but not their current metal models they are still producing.
Some of the lotr stuff I bought (including the troll character buhrder) were out of stock and then brought back. They are metal and I was told by gw that he was not oop and they were making more. Well they did and I bought one, within the past few months!
This is due to stock reshuffling. When GW US warehouse runs out of an item, it automatically requests stock from GWUK. If GWUK has any, they send some on a boat. 3-4 weeks later, GW US adds them to their stock. If none are available, the item is removed from the webstore.
One way to check to see if a GWLotR model is going out of print is to see if it's No Longer Available on GWUK - if there's stock in GWUS, buy as many as you can (this is why I now have seven Ruins of Osgiliath)
all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.
This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.
GW still sell a (small) number of metal models on their website - I doubt that all of these have been in stock since 2011 (although I am happy to be contradicted).
"We haven't stocked metal miniatures in stores since the release of Citadel Finecast (May/ June 2011), so the only metal miniatures that will be at stores will be either special orders or old stock; our own stores would have sent metal product back in 2011, but independent retailers have more control over their stock."
Can post screenshot of conversation if you'd like.
Key words there being "in stores" they are selling many metal figures via the website (not in stores).
Sadly, this is 2 years too late. If they would have given us GW addicts a taste 2 years ago before the KS explosion, many of us would have kept to the drug of choice. Now we have new drugs and the appeal of re-releasing old products holds minimal appeal.
I would have thrown down a ton on a new plastic Bloodbowl, and I still may, but since that time other games have filled that hole in my gaming experience and models I enjoy better.
richred_uk wrote: Key words there being "in stores" they are selling many metal figures via the website (not in stores).
This is due to stock reshuffling. When GW US warehouse runs out of an item, it automatically requests stock from GWUK. If GWUK has any, they send some on a boat. 3-4 weeks later, GW US adds them to their stock. If none are available, the item is removed from the webstore.
One way to check to see if a GWLotR model is going out of print is to see if it's No Longer Available on GWUK - if there's stock in GWUS, buy as many as you can (this is why I now have seven Ruins of Osgiliath)
Note that GW not only retires metal models as stock runs out, they have retired finecast (Foot Knights of Dol Amroth) as well as plastics (Ruins of Osgiliath)
Warhams-77 wrote: This thread grows fast, hope it hasnt been posted already. Hastings on Warseer is dropping the info bomb now
AFAIK the scope is pretty big, just don't be expecting things overnight, my understanding is we are still a few months out from seeing anything yet. Def full blown epic armies, not sure about how much will be plastic and how much will be resin. I expect rules to be updated where needed. Do not expect to see old sculpts unless they are classics.
I have not heard warmaster discussed, however do not discount it, this is currently in it's infancy. The HH box seems to be well received and not too bad of a price point when you compare the equivalent cost of the minis and the fact there is also a standalone game in there. I don't expect any of it will be "cheap" but it will be more accessible. As I understand it Epic & BB are quite high up the list of priorities.
One of the really interesting things in that thread is that he keeps saying it's "not GW." And that this new entity was behind the HH game.
So...are we talking about a company like FFG being involved here?
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Gorgon Sounds to me it will be Forgeworld + more designers (those who made the board games of late) + access to GW's plastic production facility
richred_uk wrote: Key words there being "in stores" they are selling many metal figures via the website (not in stores).
This is due to stock reshuffling. When GW US warehouse runs out of an item, it automatically requests stock from GWUK. If GWUK has any, they send some on a boat. 3-4 weeks later, GW US adds them to their stock. If none are available, the item is removed from the webstore.
One way to check to see if a GWLotR model is going out of print is to see if it's No Longer Available on GWUK - if there's stock in GWUS, buy as many as you can (this is why I now have seven Ruins of Osgiliath)
Note that GW not only retires metal models as stock runs out, they have retired finecast (Foot Knights of Dol Amroth) as well as plastics (Ruins of Osgiliath)
Fair play as a belief - personally I don't believe that they are still selling items that they have held in stock for 4 years plus - I think they would have scrapped them and removed the SKU's. I don't say I know that they are producing new stock in metal, but I do believe that they are. Without someone visiting Lenton, we're all just speculating though.
So, It's less a relaunch of specialist games and more a new division headed by FW designers that will release Horus Heresy style games - One-off box games based on properties still owned.
judgedoug wrote: So, It's less a relaunch of specialist games and more a new division headed by FW designers that will release Horus Heresy style games - One-off box games based on properties still owned.
The Jervis Johnson Game Series, for those old enough to remember them
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Gorgon Sounds to me it will be Forgeworld + more designers (those who made the board games of late) + access to GW's plastic production facility
Yeah, I just read that last post. Basically they're setting up an FFG in house.
When I said Bram was spot on I was referring to the fact that SG will not be how it used to be. This team will almost be like a FFG within FW producing our old favourites, not everything is a board game, imagine other classic tabletop games getting an update, doesn't mean they have to change into a boardgame format. Specialist Games ARE coming back, only with a slightly different name with an updated product and not under the direct (incompetent) control of GW.
richred_uk wrote: Key words there being "in stores" they are selling many metal figures via the website (not in stores).
This is due to stock reshuffling. When GW US warehouse runs out of an item, it automatically requests stock from GWUK. If GWUK has any, they send some on a boat. 3-4 weeks later, GW US adds them to their stock. If none are available, the item is removed from the webstore.
One way to check to see if a GWLotR model is going out of print is to see if it's No Longer Available on GWUK - if there's stock in GWUS, buy as many as you can (this is why I now have seven Ruins of Osgiliath)
Note that GW not only retires metal models as stock runs out, they have retired finecast (Foot Knights of Dol Amroth) as well as plastics (Ruins of Osgiliath)
Fair play as a belief - personally I don't believe that they are still selling items that they have held in stock for 4 years plus - I think they would have scrapped them and removed the SKU's. I don't say I know that they are producing new stock in metal, but I do believe that they are. Without someone visiting Lenton, we're all just speculating though.
Fair play as fact. Sorry, buddy. Note that almost everything they have held in stock for 4 years plus is out of stock. Which, of course, have been scrapped and SKUs removed. There's very few metal models left in the GW webstore; the majority of the produced plastics are and the majority of the produced Finecast still is (though there are exceptions). The majority of the metal models produced are long, long out of print.
I assume you're unaware of the secondary market for OOPLOTR miniatures which, items like Gandalf the Grey mounted fetch $100, and figures that were still still available as recently as a month ago are now selling for twice their price.
zedmeister wrote: From what I'm reading, these will be under the control of the Forgeworld team which is a massively wonderful thing and not the main GW studio.
richred_uk wrote: Key words there being "in stores" they are selling many metal figures via the website (not in stores).
This is due to stock reshuffling. When GW US warehouse runs out of an item, it automatically requests stock from GWUK. If GWUK has any, they send some on a boat. 3-4 weeks later, GW US adds them to their stock. If none are available, the item is removed from the webstore.
One way to check to see if a GWLotR model is going out of print is to see if it's No Longer Available on GWUK - if there's stock in GWUS, buy as many as you can (this is why I now have seven Ruins of Osgiliath)
Note that GW not only retires metal models as stock runs out, they have retired finecast (Foot Knights of Dol Amroth) as well as plastics (Ruins of Osgiliath)
Fair play as a belief - personally I don't believe that they are still selling items that they have held in stock for 4 years plus - I think they would have scrapped them and removed the SKU's. I don't say I know that they are producing new stock in metal, but I do believe that they are. Without someone visiting Lenton, we're all just speculating though.
Fair play as fact. Sorry, buddy. Note that almost everything they have held in stock for 4 years plus is out of stock. Which, of course, have been scrapped and SKUs removed. There's very few metal models left in the GW webstore; the majority of the produced plastics are and the majority of the produced Finecast still is (though there are exceptions). The majority of the metal models produced are long, long out of print.
I assume you're unaware of the secondary market for OOPLOTR miniatures which, items like Gandalf the Grey mounted fetch $100, and figures that were still still available as recently as a month ago are now selling for twice their price.
I do know about the market for OOP metal figures - it's where 90% plus of my hobby spend goes. (If you have and 80's Gothic Horror or Night Horrors, I'll pay about 10 - 20* the original retail for the ones I need )
I'm saying I do not believe that some of the following items are simply left over stock from 4 years ago - if they were that slow to sell, GW would have scrapped them, if they sold super fast they would be sold out:
I could produce more links, but it's getting off-topic and I hope you understand my point. As I say - without going up there and looking at their facilities, we don't *know* - your quote didn't say anything about production it talked about stocking policies, and I am drawing inferences from partial facts - let's agree to have different opinions?
When I said Bram was spot on I was referring to the fact that SG will not be how it used to be. This team will almost be like a FFG within FW producing our old favourites, not everything is a board game, imagine other classic tabletop games getting an update, doesn't mean they have to change into a boardgame format. Specialist Games ARE coming back, only with a slightly different name with an updated product and not under the direct (incompetent) control of GW.
Holy gak. So basically this is the best decision GW has made in many years, and it's one that will have a very positive effect on their standing in the community and, hopefully, their finances.
So to conclude, Forgeworld is expanding into a new 'specialist Games', in which they're going to do the ongoing support for lesser ranges, releasing the occasional new thing in differerent formats, and if something sells well enough, they'll have the authority to get it turned into plastic.
Sounds like a solid business move, and one the gaming community can get behind.
When I started, my first taste of the 40K universe was via Space Marine (what became epic) and it was the Heresy then.. most of our battles in my first few years where Marine vs Marine.. and I'll be right there again if that's the route they take.
As long as it doesn't come with those tapes again: "'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go"
feth me, I found one of the tapes on youtube. You had to play this while playing
1. Looks like GW realized that they could try to get some of the money that they're not making from the Oldhammer movement,
2. There is no way I'd be interested in specialist stuff at modern GW prices.
Which brings me to
3. For me, these games never left - Except for BFG, they're all on my shelves.
I think that's what worries me so much about this announcement.
The first is that we may see these rules updated by GW's current team. The only reason they've stood the test of time and been popular despite the lack of direct support is because the rules are still pretty good (since they were written by all the Old Guard). Can you imagine GW's current bunch of no-names trying to update Blood Bowl? Or BFG?
The second is the prices. Like the HH in plastic, this is another "smash in case of emergency" option by GW, and I'd put money down that we'll see stuff like 5 plastic 6mm Leman Russ' for $50, or Space Marine battle group in 6mm for $150.
Probably the best post to date on the subject. Have an exalt.
Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.
If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:
Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.
I meant "sense of scale" in more poetic terms; when I play a game of BFG I'm controlling a fleet of ships that are kilometres-long, commanding crews that number in the tens of thousands, throwing away attack craft markers that represent whole squadrons and unleashing torpedoes the size of skyscrapers by the dozen. In fluff terms, BFG battles can decide the fate of whole sectors of space, Dropfleet seems to be equivalent to taking command of a couple of escorts and some troop landers during one single wave of a planetary assault. There's nothing wrong with it if that's what you're into, but I enjoy that "grand armada" feeling even if mechanically there's not a huge amount of difference beyond one game playing out on a starfield table and the other a high-orbit-planet-texture table.
Torpedoes are (...) designed to be capital ship killers and are massive, building sized ordnance. - From Update #8 on the DfCKS
DfC is VERY similar, maybe you should just take a look at it before dismissing it. DfC goes from fighter/bomber squadrons up to battleships.
IIRC the Scale of DfC is 1:15,000 and the largest ships are roughly up to 3km long, so they're not that much smaller than BFG Battleships (up to 4.5km). Considering 40ks "slight tendency" to oversize the everliving gak out of everything it's quite impressive that DfC comes that close in size.
Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.
If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:
Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.
You'll get zero sympathy from me.
Well, it's kind of like a hopeful dream for a bunch of people that got brushed off by GW.
I swore off GW models for years, and then picked up a bunch of Empire stuff second hand for a KoW army (second one will be fully Mantic, though).
And, playing devil's advocate here, what happens if they smash the ball out of the park on these? What if FW's team is enough old-school GW to keep the rules mostly intact, and offer the minis at an acceptable (not great, but acceptable) price?
I don't think that'll happen, though. The only reason why the HH game sold so well is because it's cheap compared to the insane FW prices. And you can't tell me the models on the market nowadays, like all the various teams for Blood Bowl, aren't better than what GW offer, or would cost less.
Thing is, those rules exist, and aren't going anywhere. If the new (and, let's not forget, autonomous, with a heavy FW element) studio comes up with new versions that are fun, then great. If they feth it up, then at least we'll have already supply of models that means anyone wanting to start up won't have to scratch around on eBay at the mercy of price gougers and the vagaries of availability.
Given the declared independence (and FW already pretty much operate that way, so there's no reason to really worry about meddling) and the existence of rule sets that are generally regarded as solid, I don't think there's any real reason to be pessimistic.
It's getting harder and harder to hate GW every day. We get a well priced HH game, two awesome looking video games, and now the promise of BFG and other stuff. Life is good...
Quite excited about this, I still never managed to get my epic armies finished.
Would like a few more blood bowl teams and another pitch for the collection would be nice too.
I am a fan of DC but while being decent, it is not a patch on the original epic scale games from GW.
It would not surprise me if this was the plan all along, stop support initially and then re release them again at a later date.
we all know how GW adore the Limited Edition model and because they have not been around for a while, fans will get excited about these titles being re released again as we can already see.
Its a good call, apart from AOS , their approach seems to be working on the whole, who needs market research eh ?
Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.
If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:
Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.
You'll get zero sympathy from me.
Well, it's kind of like a hopeful dream for a bunch of people that got brushed off by GW.
I swore off GW models for years, and then picked up a bunch of Empire stuff second hand for a KoW army (second one will be fully Mantic, though).
And, playing devil's advocate here, what happens if they smash the ball out of the park on these? What if FW's team is enough old-school GW to keep the rules mostly intact, and offer the minis at an acceptable (not great, but acceptable) price?
I don't think that'll happen, though. The only reason why the HH game sold so well is because it's cheap compared to the insane FW prices. And you can't tell me the models on the market nowadays, like all the various teams for Blood Bowl, aren't better than what GW offer, or would cost less.
I'm just struggling to understand the mentality of some people regarding this 'announcement.'
You have two option when it comes to buying mini wargames stuff these days.
1) GW, a company that treats customers and retailers like dirt, churns out rubbish rule sets, over-priced models and has a track record of not giving two hoots about the gaming community.
2) Various companies that listen to their customers, accept feedback, write great rule sets, sell models at a reasonable price, and bend over backwards to work with retailers and the gaming community.
And dakka's reaction? Option 1! Take my money GW. Take my money!!!
I am tempted however to buy up some of the 6mm Baccus Victorian British to represent Praetorian IG at a Regiment rather than Company level. They even produce Lancers and Artillery for Rough Riders and Heavy Squads. No Victorian era Ogryns though!
Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.
If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:
Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.
You'll get zero sympathy from me.
Well, it's kind of like a hopeful dream for a bunch of people that got brushed off by GW.
I swore off GW models for years, and then picked up a bunch of Empire stuff second hand for a KoW army (second one will be fully Mantic, though).
And, playing devil's advocate here, what happens if they smash the ball out of the park on these? What if FW's team is enough old-school GW to keep the rules mostly intact, and offer the minis at an acceptable (not great, but acceptable) price?
I don't think that'll happen, though. The only reason why the HH game sold so well is because it's cheap compared to the insane FW prices. And you can't tell me the models on the market nowadays, like all the various teams for Blood Bowl, aren't better than what GW offer, or would cost less.
I'm just struggling to understand the mentality of some people regarding this 'announcement.'
You have two option when it comes to buying mini wargames stuff these days.
1) GW, a company that treats customers and retailers like dirt, churns out rubbish rule sets, over-priced models and has a track record of not giving two hoots about the gaming community.
2) Various companies that listen to their customers, accept feedback, write great rule sets, sell models at a reasonable price, and bend over backwards to work with retailers and the gaming community.
And dakka's reaction? Option 1! Take my money GW. Take my money!!!
A massive WTF is going on here!!!
Well, nostalgia.
Also, GW produces some of the best looking (imo) miniatures. I can't get Space Marines anywhere else. I can't get flying gothic cathedrals with tons of weapons anywhere else.
Sure, Infinity has fantastic miniatures and a cool skirmish ruleset. But what if you don't like the anime stlye?
Kap'n Krump wrote: I always thought battlefleet gothic sounded like fun.
yeah! I bought some ships without buying the rules. After I got the rules I saw that I didn't have enough ships. Now I will be able to complete my fleet!
Hopefully they don't release the ships in metal, those things are unwieldy
Ketara wrote: So to conclude, Forgeworld is expanding into a new 'specialist Games', in which they're going to do the ongoing support for lesser ranges, releasing the occasional new thing in differerent formats, and if something sells well enough, they'll have the authority to get it turned into plastic.
My read of Hastings' statements is that they might be a little more aggressive than that. As in not just going the old SG route of posting old rules PDFs and re-releasing old models, but actually producing new versions of the older games, minis and all.
And while I get the kneejerk reaction to the concept of "new rules for old games," it's important to note that FW has done a very good job with the rules for 30K, AND that if the new rules aren't any good, those communities will just stick with the older rules and enjoy the availability of new minis.
Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.
If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:
Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.
You'll get zero sympathy from me.
Well, it's kind of like a hopeful dream for a bunch of people that got brushed off by GW.
I swore off GW models for years, and then picked up a bunch of Empire stuff second hand for a KoW army (second one will be fully Mantic, though).
And, playing devil's advocate here, what happens if they smash the ball out of the park on these? What if FW's team is enough old-school GW to keep the rules mostly intact, and offer the minis at an acceptable (not great, but acceptable) price?
I don't think that'll happen, though. The only reason why the HH game sold so well is because it's cheap compared to the insane FW prices. And you can't tell me the models on the market nowadays, like all the various teams for Blood Bowl, aren't better than what GW offer, or would cost less.
I'm just struggling to understand the mentality of some people regarding this 'announcement.'
You have two option when it comes to buying mini wargames stuff these days.
1) GW, a company that treats customers and retailers like dirt, churns out rubbish rule sets, over-priced models and has a track record of not giving two hoots about the gaming community.
2) Various companies that listen to their customers, accept feedback, write great rule sets, sell models at a reasonable price, and bend over backwards to work with retailers and the gaming community.
And dakka's reaction? Option 1! Take my money GW. Take my money!!!
A massive WTF is going on here!!!
The only hypocrisy here is from those who bashed GW while continuing to hand them cash every week.
Nearly any company of notable size behaves badly in some form or other if you look hard enough. If that's your sole metric for who you give your custom, you'll have a hard time feeding yourself, clothing yourself, getting well if you get sick, communicating with anyone that isn't in the same room as you etc etc. Not to diminish the reprehensible behaviour of any company, but anyone criticising GWsolelyfor their bad behaviour is, in the majority of cases, likely supporting someone else who is guilty of far greater sins, possibly even in the process of posting a GW bashing post.
So, if one removes the, sadly fairly typical, bad corporate behaviour from the equation, the core argument you're left with is "GW does not a product that represents sufficient value of quality to justify the price." Which is my own personal angle. If that changes, then so does my viewpoint.
Awesome
. But it would be the most exciting thing 
you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.
