The member that was handling the Chaos thread said they weren't going to update the first post anymore, so I am making a new thread here for the new Blood Angels releases.
Courtesy of the War of Sigmar Blog
Spoiler:
Hello again !
@thx nice raven
Blood angel supplement is on the way : Angel Blade
This was expected are they are the main "good guys" against Kharn
EDIT :
this is from grot ordrely
So this week we will hear about the new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel's Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels' Blade (supplement) - 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force - 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force - 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients - 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.
From Warhammer 40,000 Facebook
Spoiler:
The first teaser image
Some new artwork
Wait, that looks familiar...
That's because Traitor's Hate and Angel's Blade have covers that are a part of one large image! Kinda cool, if you ask me.
Update: Here is the price list with US and CAN prices. Thanks, MajorTom11!
Angel's Blade contents (thanks Warhams-77!)
Spoiler:
Content of Angels Blade
Description
A campaign supplement for Warhammer 40,000, containing a story from the beginning of the 13th Black Crusade from the perspective of the Blood Angels, featuring new rules content for that Chapter.
The Story
The shadow of a huge fleet of Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion forces falls across the Diamor System, as Abaddon the Despoiler’s 13th Black Crusade is launched. This shadow is met by the righteous fury of the Blood Angels; leading a mighty coalition of Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Knights, the Sons of Sanguinius fight bitterly against the servants of Chaos.
Yet the fires of war that consume the worlds of the Diamor System are revealing dark secrets, harbingers of a terrible doom that even the Blood Angels will be hard-pressed to prevent coming to fruition…
The Rules
The 136-page hardback Black Crusade: Angel’s Blade features a host of new rules content for Warhammer 40,000, to be used alongside Codex: Blood Angels:
- Updated datasheets for Blood Angels, including Terminator Captains, Death Company Chaplains, Assault Squads and Devastator Squads;
- Relics of the Lost; incredibly rare and powerful Death Company relics once borne by a Chapter member who succumbed to the Black Rage;
- Revised and updated Wargear of Baal;
- Death Company Tactical Objectives;
- 9 new Blood Angels Formations, an Angel’s Blade Strike Force and a Lost Brotherhood Strike Force;
- 3 new Altar of War missions: Death on the Wing, Honour of the Angels and No Matter the Odds.
aracersss wrote: so NZ pre orders are out and a bunh of formations leaked out ...
Who doesn't love a good war zone map?
We think they're great.
When the Blood Angels arrive in the Diamor System, the forces of Chaos have already established a solid foothold on several planets. With most of their Chapter still preparing the Baal System for the oncoming advance of Tyranids, can the 1st, 2nd and 5th Companies of the Blood Angels blunt the assault of the traitor vanguard?
- Assault squad receive the same entry as vanilla : no JP, buy either the jumpack or the transport or leave them on foot. Evicerator available
- Devastator : same thing, they have acces to cherubin and grav cannon.
- vindi and WW can be fielded as squadron with the same bonus
- same thing for turbo boos bonus for speeders
- access to domain from the new disciplines
Then the news
First a DC chaplain
allow to reroll the roll to wound for him and its uni when charging except in a disorderd charge
Then the Baal :
Fieldable in squadron and may re roll 1 to W when played in squadrons of 3
I have no access to relics except the TH from Kraen wich becomes available to any BA character
Then you have 2 detachment or rather "super formations" "gladius" ... whatever
The first is a standard one the second is more Death company
Gladius like detachment
bonus
- re roll of warlord trait
- l+1I when charging
- zealot if any squad come below 50%
… And... That's all ! No free transport if 2 half company are played...
The formations
Core :
Demi Companie
As a vanilla one except you can swap the command squad for a furioso
Special rules Reroll of the warlord trait and +1I when charging and ... That's all !!!! NO OBJECTIVE SECURED And it's the same bonus as the whole formation... This is THE dark point IMO…
archangels demi companie
1 termi captain
2 furioso
4 units amongst termis assault termi vanguard sternguards
special rules :
Stubborn
Roll for reserve at Turn 1
Re roll scatter and roll only 1d6
Warlord trait re roll
HQ :
Leaders of the Angelic Host :
1 HQ 0-1 comman squad
0-1 Storm Raven
no special rules
Golden Host
Dante or Sanguinor
2-5 sanguinary guards units
Special rules :
No reserve roll you choose the turn they arrive and everybody arrive in DS They can charge the turn they DS but count as disordered charge
Chapter ancients
3-5 units of
Dreads
Dreads Furioso
Dreads Archi
special rules
1time per battle, you can choose to sacrify the movement phase of any dread to either make a free shoot or a free movement of contact and resolve CC A. You can then proceed normally to shoot or charge
Auxiliaries :
Archangels orbital intervention force
3 termi squads of any sort
Special rules :
MUST be kept in DS reserve
one single reserve roll
The termi may eithershoot twice (not necessarly at the same target) OR charge the turn they DS but this will count as disordered charge
10th company Ambush Force
3-5 units of scouts or scout bikes
Restrictions : bikes must have mines
Special rules :
As long as it doesn't move a unit gain +1 cover (shrouded?)
Precision shot first turn
Death Company Strike Force
1 DC chaplain
3 DC squads
0-3 DC dreads
Special rules
Models within 12" of the chaplain gain +1A
Lucifer Armoured strike force
1 techmarine
3-5 units of preds or Baal
1-3 units of LR of any sort
Special Rules
Scouts
Overloaded engines free
Storm Raven Squadron
2-4 Storm Raven
Special Rules : One time per battle, during your movement phase, declare you target an enemy unit. All the SR within 72" of the target and with a LoS must shoo all their remaining stormstrike missiles on the target. This doesn't count toward the number of weapons usable and the SR may use their weapons during the shooting phase as normal.
Rapid Assault Force
1-3 units
Assault squads
bike squads
attack bike squads
speeder squadrons
Special Rules : none it's a "blank formation" usable only in the super detachment
Fire Support Force
1-3 units
devastator
WW Vindi
Special rules : none it's a "blank formation" usable only in the super detachment
And then Death Company Gladius
Bonus :
Re roll traits
+1I when charging expect if disordered charge
After Deploying the unit, it may make a 6"move. This is NOT a scout move
Core
Death Company Strike Force as described
HQ
Death Company Command
1-3 choices amongst Astorath, Lemartes or chapelain CdlM
Aux
Archangels Orbital Intervention force as described
Im kinds exited, we know for sure that the formations we get will be better then the ones chaos got. GW hates chaos I predict that one of the formation is gonna be Assault out of DS with possibility to make a disordere charge but get no penalties for it aka making it a normala charge. That would top the chaos one in an ordinary fashion
I am hoping for some Assault out of Deep Strike or turn 1 deep strike. I wouldn't mind BA getting the ability to use their Jump Packs in both phases the way Raven Guard do (seriously, why is the chapter most known for Jump Packs not very good at using them?).
I am also hoping for a Tank Squadrons ability for Baal Predators. It stands to reason that regular Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds will get their squadron abilities the way SW and CSM versions of those tanks were given them as well. Fast Vindicators dropping giant pie plates of doom would be nice!
Of course, it's more pictures of just the miniatures, bit like the one in the DW Codex where the guy with the Stalker-Pattern Bolter is reloading it, just like (and only like) you can do with that specific mini.
Thanks for posting this, I will add it to the first post. At $45, the Assault Marines are a steal since it is the regular Assault Marine kit with the Blood Angels Upgrade Sprue included.
Yeah, the art looks weird. I'm OK with slimmer armor (I often do my marines without shoulder pads), but Kharn looks much better. The chaplain is sort of a pin headed eldar look.
MajorTom11 wrote: I take it there is nothing new here, just the upgrade sprue added to existing stuff?
That seems to the case. The Blood Angels versions of the kits are just the regular kits with the repacked the Blood Angels upgrade kit. For the most part, they are a steal too. They are charging $5 for a $13.50 upgrade kit.
The bundles are apparently the following:
Chapter Ancients - 3x Furioso Dreadnoughts (MSRP $138.75, savings of $33.75)
Archangel's Orbital Intervention Force - 2x Blood Angels Terminator Assault Squad, 1x Terminator Squad (MSRP $170, savings of $45)
Death Company Strike Force - 1x Jump Pack Chaplain, 3x Death Company Squad, 1x Death Company Dreadnought (MSRP $178.25, savings of $43.25)
Company Command - 1x Command Squad, 1x Commander, 1x Upgrade Sprue (MSRP $71.25, Savings of $21.25)
So all in all, the kits save around 25% or more, which is pretty good.
Yeah, glad I only bought a few of the upgrade kits already! Looks like the repacks are just the standard C:SM kits + the BA upgrade sprue for like $9.50 less than it would normally cost to buy them both separately.
As much as my knee-jerk reaction is to gripe about no new stuff, I'll take savings over new models all day, in this instance!
So, any word on new rules or anything like that? I've heard rumors of some nasty buffs for Death Company, as well as some fluffy reasons to use a metric gakk-ton of them.
No news yet as to what the rules will be. Per the initial rumor, there will be two new detachments, most likely a Decurion type Detachment and the Death Company detachment. Based on the name for the Terminators boxed set, some of the formations will be reprints from the Exterminatus book.
The Assault Marine and Devastator Marine updated data sheets are probably just giving them the options that the new kits added. Lastly, I expect Captain Karlaen to have his datasheat in this book, as well as Death Company Chaplain Daenor.
Oh a Digital Codex Blood Angels Red Thirst Edition
Content of Angels Blade
Description
A campaign supplement for Warhammer 40,000, containing a story from the beginning of the 13th Black Crusade from the perspective of the Blood Angels, featuring new rules content for that Chapter.
The Story
The shadow of a huge fleet of Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion forces falls across the Diamor System, as Abaddon the Despoiler’s 13th Black Crusade is launched. This shadow is met by the righteous fury of the Blood Angels; leading a mighty coalition of Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Knights, the Sons of Sanguinius fight bitterly against the servants of Chaos.
Yet the fires of war that consume the worlds of the Diamor System are revealing dark secrets, harbingers of a terrible doom that even the Blood Angels will be hard-pressed to prevent coming to fruition…
The Rules
The 136-page hardback Black Crusade: Angel’s Blade features a host of new rules content for Warhammer 40,000, to be used alongside Codex: Blood Angels:
- Updated datasheets for Blood Angels, including Terminator Captains, Death Company Chaplains, Assault Squads and Devastator Squads;
- Relics of the Lost; incredibly rare and powerful Death Company relics once borne by a Chapter member who succumbed to the Black Rage;
- Revised and updated Wargear of Baal;
- Death Company Tactical Objectives;
- 9 new Blood Angels Formations, an Angel’s Blade Strike Force and a Lost Brotherhood Strike Force;
- 3 new Altar of War missions: Death on the Wing, Honour of the Angels and No Matter the Odds.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Cool artwork. The whole picture is really nice.
Of course, it's more pictures of just the miniatures, bit like the one in the DW Codex where the guy with the Stalker-Pattern Bolter is reloading it, just like (and only like) you can do with that specific mini.
Maybe off topic, but I was able to use that stalker bolter in a normal firing pose with a minimum of converting effort. Just cut at the hand, cut down a magazine to fit in the mag well, and glue the gun and hand into a normal pair of aiming bolter arms. Not a humble brag, just for anyone reading this worried that they're going to be stuck with a squad of guys all reloading in perfect synch.
That death company box looks like a pretty good deal, as for the other boxes can't say I'm a big fan of the blood angels assault terminator kit, and I think everyone who wants blood angel dreadnoughts has a bunch now where they've been cheaply available a few times (stormclaw etc).
Thanks for making this, it infuriates me how people make a news topic and just leave it to rot. -take note.
But anyway, can't wait to see the new Baal stuff. Really intrigued as i love our unique models. The Chaplain model is awesome as is but too expensive, some cool but non OP rules may tip me over the edge to buy. Also more Karlean(?) rules would be sweet.
Updated datasheets for Blood Angels, including Terminator Captains, Death Company Chaplains, Assault Squads and Devastator Squads;
How nice of them to do that for the Blood Angels, but not CSM when they could have done it for Traitor's Hate.
Of course we don't know what exactly the update is. Could just be a line adding some option, but still. Seems they are capable of updating datasheets when they want to.
I'm just not a fan of the BA themselves, never was. I do like the Flesh Tearers though, just they can't really use the BA bitz and stuff. Still good for them to get something, since they always are one of those armies I don't want to play, but look so freaking cool.
Updated datasheets for Blood Angels, including Terminator Captains, Death Company Chaplains, Assault Squads and Devastator Squads;
How nice of them to do that for the Blood Angels, but not CSM when they could have done it for Traitor's Hate.
Of course we don't know what exactly the update is. Could just be a line adding some option, but still. Seems they are capable of updating datasheets when they want to.
I'm just not a fan of the BA themselves, never was. I do like the Flesh Tearers though, just they can't really use the BA bitz and stuff. Still good for them to get something, since they always are one of those armies I don't want to play, but look so freaking cool.
It is most likely an update to make the old dataslates match the new box contents. They are wildly different, where as the Chaos kits match the dataslates.
Really, Chaos needs both.
I hope the Wargear of Baal changes bring the prices of everything in line with C:SM. I am hoping the Captain Datasheets allows a Cataphractii Captain, especially given that out Devastators are getting Grav Cannons.
Because I'm not really interested in some additional rules and regurgitated artwork. I'm more interested in new artwork, models, and maybe some interesting background.
MajorTom11 wrote: I take it there is nothing new here, just the upgrade sprue added to existing stuff?
That seems to the case. The Blood Angels versions of the kits are just the regular kits with the repacked the Blood Angels upgrade kit. For the most part, they are a steal too. They are charging $5 for a $13.50 upgrade kit.
The bundles are apparently the following:
Chapter Ancients - 3x Furioso Dreadnoughts (MSRP $138.75, savings of $33.75)
Archangel's Orbital Intervention Force - 2x Blood Angels Terminator Assault Squad, 1x Terminator Squad (MSRP $170, savings of $45)
Death Company Strike Force - 1x Jump Pack Chaplain, 3x Death Company Squad, 1x Death Company Dreadnought (MSRP $178.25, savings of $43.25)
Company Command - 1x Command Squad, 1x Commander, 1x Upgrade Sprue (MSRP $71.25, Savings of $21.25)
So all in all, the kits save around 25% or more, which is pretty good.
Good to see some discount boxes appearing. Another step in the right direction, IMO. Might actually have to buy something from GW, if this trend continues
Codex: Blood Angels details one of the Imperium's oldest and most enduring Space Marine Chapters. Inside you will learn about their history, their heroes and the terrible effects of the Black Rage and the Red Thirst that assail their battle-brothers.
CONTENTS
46 datasheets for the entire range of Blood Angels Citadel Miniatures
10 formations, themed collections of datasheets with additional special rules
Three detachments – the Baal Strike Force, Angel's Blade Strike Force and Lost Brotherhood Strike Force
Full details for Blood Angels wargear and two sets of relics
Army special rules, including two sets of Warlord Traits and Tactical Objectives
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
A comprehensive guide to the Blood Angels, their history and their rituals
A showcase of stunning Citadel Miniatures presenting the colours and heraldry of the Blood Angels
DESCRIPTION
Forged in the flames of the Horus Heresy, the Blood Angels are among the greatest of the Emperor's warriors. Revered on a million worlds and feared by Mankind's myriad foes, for over ten thousand years they have fought in the Emperor's name, earning countless honours and vanquishing his enemies. Yet for all their nobility and renown, dark rumours of a bloody thirst and battle madness surround them, some questioning their very humanity. Whatever the truth, few who have witnessed them in battle can deny their fury or their devotion to the Emperor, and few that stand against them live to tell the tale.
This digital-exclusive Red Thirst Edition combines the content of Codex: Blood Angels with the new Blood Angels rules from Black Crusade: Traitor's Hate, forming the ultimate collection of rules for the Sons of Sanguinius.
Interesting to note we kept the Baal Strike Force, as well as the new formations and Decurion Style detachments. All other new codex's have just had formations and Decurions, CAD for anything else.
They are just cutting and pasting the new dataslates from Angel's Blade to the back of the Blood Angels Digital Codex, like they did with the Chaos Daemons: Incursion Edition Codex.
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: So they're getting a new (updated) codex as well? I knew there was a reason I held onto some of my Blood Angels.
Meanwhile, in Chaos land...
Meanwhile, in Chaos land they got the Vindicator and Predator Squadron bonuses that were previously just in the Loyalist stuff.
True, but I was referencing the fact that BA got 2 new codexes and a new supplement in the last couple years, and Chaos has only gotten supplements.
Not actually true.
Khorne Daemonkin wasn't a supplement. It was a brand new Codex under the Chaos Marines header.
Blood Angels got a new Codex awhile ago. This digital only "Red Thirst" edition is not a new Codex. It's the current Codex, updated with the stuff coming out in the supplement...much of which is just rehashed from elsewhere, either from the Leviathan series or updated via the main Space Marine book such as the 10th Company Ambush Force or the addition of Eviscerators/Grav-Cannons.
Daemons got a similar updated book called the "Daemonic Incursions" edition.
I do not think that CSM got a similar one...which is odd, granted, but does mesh up with some of the more reliable rumors that CSM are one of the books being looked at very hard for the rumored next edition.
Blood Angels aren't getting as much as you seem to think they are. This is a supplement release, with some repackaged stuff. I will say I'm surprised at how many Blood Angels boxed sets there are coming with this release.
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: So they're getting a new (updated) codex as well? I knew there was a reason I held onto some of my Blood Angels.
Meanwhile, in Chaos land...
Meanwhile, in Chaos land they got the Vindicator and Predator Squadron bonuses that were previously just in the Loyalist stuff.
True, but I was referencing the fact that BA got 2 new codexes and a new supplement in the last couple years, and Chaos has only gotten supplements.
Not actually true.
Khorne Daemonkin wasn't a supplement. It was a brand new Codex under the Chaos Marines header.
Blood Angels got a new Codex awhile ago. This digital only "Red Thirst" edition is not a new Codex. It's the current Codex, updated with the stuff coming out in the supplement...much of which is just rehashed from elsewhere, either from the Leviathan series or updated via the main Space Marine book such as the 10th Company Ambush Force or the addition of Eviscerators/Grav-Cannons.
Daemons got a similar updated book called the "Daemonic Incursions" edition.
I do not think that CSM got a similar one...which is odd, granted, but does mesh up with some of the more reliable rumors that CSM are one of the books being looked at very hard for the rumored next edition.
Blood Angels aren't getting as much as you seem to think they are. This is a supplement release, with some repackaged stuff. I will say I'm surprised at how many Blood Angels boxed sets there are coming with this release.
The BA codex came out in 2015. The new codex (red thirst), according to the promo materials is "A fully revised and updated guide to the sons of sanguinius, including new rules from Black Crusade: Angel's Blade". That gives the impression that it's more than just the old dex with new formations, otherwise it wouldn't say "fully revised".
Yes, KDK is new, but the consensus among Chaos players is that KDK is not CSM.
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: So they're getting a new (updated) codex as well? I knew there was a reason I held onto some of my Blood Angels.
Meanwhile, in Chaos land...
Meanwhile, in Chaos land they got the Vindicator and Predator Squadron bonuses that were previously just in the Loyalist stuff.
True, but I was referencing the fact that BA got 2 new codexes and a new supplement in the last couple years, and Chaos has only gotten supplements.
Not actually true.
Khorne Daemonkin wasn't a supplement. It was a brand new Codex under the Chaos Marines header.
Blood Angels got a new Codex awhile ago. This digital only "Red Thirst" edition is not a new Codex. It's the current Codex, updated with the stuff coming out in the supplement...much of which is just rehashed from elsewhere, either from the Leviathan series or updated via the main Space Marine book such as the 10th Company Ambush Force or the addition of Eviscerators/Grav-Cannons.
Daemons got a similar updated book called the "Daemonic Incursions" edition.
I do not think that CSM got a similar one...which is odd, granted, but does mesh up with some of the more reliable rumors that CSM are one of the books being looked at very hard for the rumored next edition.
Blood Angels aren't getting as much as you seem to think they are. This is a supplement release, with some repackaged stuff. I will say I'm surprised at how many Blood Angels boxed sets there are coming with this release.
The BA codex came out in 2015. The new codex (red thirst), according to the promo materials is "A fully revised and updated guide to the sons of sanguinius, including new rules from Black Crusade: Angel's Blade". That gives the impression that it's more than just the old dex with new formations, otherwise it wouldn't say "fully revised".
Yes, KDK is new, but the consensus among Chaos players is that KDK is not CSM.
it came out in 2014, not 2015. It is more like the newer version of the Tau Codex or the Wulfen edition of the Space Wolves codex.
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: So they're getting a new (updated) codex as well? I knew there was a reason I held onto some of my Blood Angels.
Meanwhile, in Chaos land...
Meanwhile, in Chaos land they got the Vindicator and Predator Squadron bonuses that were previously just in the Loyalist stuff.
True, but I was referencing the fact that BA got 2 new codexes and a new supplement in the last couple years, and Chaos has only gotten supplements.
Not actually true.
Khorne Daemonkin wasn't a supplement. It was a brand new Codex under the Chaos Marines header.
Blood Angels got a new Codex awhile ago. This digital only "Red Thirst" edition is not a new Codex. It's the current Codex, updated with the stuff coming out in the supplement...much of which is just rehashed from elsewhere, either from the Leviathan series or updated via the main Space Marine book such as the 10th Company Ambush Force or the addition of Eviscerators/Grav-Cannons.
Daemons got a similar updated book called the "Daemonic Incursions" edition.
I do not think that CSM got a similar one...which is odd, granted, but does mesh up with some of the more reliable rumors that CSM are one of the books being looked at very hard for the rumored next edition.
Blood Angels aren't getting as much as you seem to think they are. This is a supplement release, with some repackaged stuff. I will say I'm surprised at how many Blood Angels boxed sets there are coming with this release.
The BA codex came out in 2015. The new codex (red thirst), according to the promo materials is "A fully revised and updated guide to the sons of sanguinius, including new rules from Black Crusade: Angel's Blade". That gives the impression that it's more than just the old dex with new formations, otherwise it wouldn't say "fully revised".
Revised:
verb (used with object), revised, revising.
1.
to amend or alter:
to revise one's opinion.
2.
to alter something already written or printed, in order to make corrections, improve, or update:
to revise a manuscript.
It's the old dex with new formations and updated unit entries to match the boxed sets that are currently sold. As mentioned, Devastators are getting Grav-Cannons and Assault Marines are getting Eviscerators.
The Blood Angels book previously had access to some outlier stuff that is since gone(Assault Marines with Plasma Guns, for example, are not in the main C: SM book despite the artwork for the Raven Guard in Kauyon/Mont'ka having so flipping many Plasma Gun toting Assault Marines...) or was not included for whatever reason(Grav-Cannons for Devastators).
Hell there's a reason the Blood Angels got their own Tactical Squad, because they have options for Inferno Pistols/Hand Flamers and Heavy Flamers in Tactical Squads that is not in the "standard" Tactical Marine box.
Yes, KDK is new, but the consensus among Chaos players is that KDK is not CSM.
Okay, and...?
If "the consensus" among players was the way that anything was done...nothing would get done.
We get it. Chaos Marines didn't get as extensive of an update as they possibly could have....but what would that update really have entailed with this release for Chaos?
No. The other thread was not being updated anymore. I will update the first post of this one as best I can.
My comment was directed at the derail into how much Chaos sucks, not the thread its self.
Yeah, we definitely don't need Chaos Whining (TM) here. I am sure the BA players will do it anyway. I know I will if stuff sucks.
In other news, confirmed formations so far -
Archangels Demi-Company
Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company
10th Company Ambush Force
Death Company Strike Force (probably a detachment)
Golden Host
Chapter Ancients
So I, uh, got bored and did the math on the new sets in USD, and the pricing on the big Archangels Demi-Company set seems really off. You're only saving like 10% there, as opposed to 20-25% on the other sets. I was thinking about grabbing that one since I wanted more Terminators from the Orbital Intervention set anyway, but it seems like it makes more sense to just grab the OI box and then pick up the other specialty squads later when I can space out the $$. Not saving nearly enough there to justify the big hit all at once. The Chapter Ancients and Death Company boxes are fantastic, tho, definitely getting both of those. The Battle Company savings is only so-so, but I don't really have a need for that one anyway, I have plenty of older regular bodies. I feel like there's an item missing from the Archangel box's description or something.
Some of these formations we've seen already in Exterminatus. Orbital Intervention Force and Archangels Demi Company. There is another demi-company too.
Wonder if they're any different...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prometheum5 wrote: So I, uh, got bored and did the math on the new sets in USD, and the pricing on the big Archangels Demi-Company set seems really off. You're only saving like 10% there, as opposed to 20-25% on the other sets. I was thinking about grabbing that one since I wanted more Terminators from the Orbital Intervention set anyway, but it seems like it makes more sense to just grab the OI box and then pick up the other specialty squads later when I can space out the $$. Not saving nearly enough there to justify the big hit all at once. The Chapter Ancients and Death Company boxes are fantastic, tho, definitely getting both of those. The Battle Company savings is only so-so, but I don't really have a need for that one anyway, I have plenty of older regular bodies. I feel like there's an item missing from the Archangel box's description or something.
I think it's because the archangels demi company is more of a one-click-bundle that happens to include the orbital intervention force so that is the only discount you get for that one.
Prometheum5 wrote: So I, uh, got bored and did the math on the new sets in USD, and the pricing on the big Archangels Demi-Company set seems really off. You're only saving like 10% there, as opposed to 20-25% on the other sets. I was thinking about grabbing that one since I wanted more Terminators from the Orbital Intervention set anyway, but it seems like it makes more sense to just grab the OI box and then pick up the other specialty squads later when I can space out the $$. Not saving nearly enough there to justify the big hit all at once. The Chapter Ancients and Death Company boxes are fantastic, tho, definitely getting both of those. The Battle Company savings is only so-so, but I don't really have a need for that one anyway, I have plenty of older regular bodies. I feel like there's an item missing from the Archangel box's description or something.
As SolentSanguine mentioned:
The ones with the "best savings"? Those are an actual boxed set item that will have a very likely limited availability. The other items are just a collection of the existing items bundled together for you to click once and get the items that way. They are not a boxed item.
Sadly, I literally have enough Blood Angels stuff in boxes to nearly build the entire freaking chapter (not quite enough tactical marines...), and a pile of the BA upgrade sprue, so I won't be buying the new kits :(
Unless they have new transfers in them or something Then I'd have to...
@Drok55555 - I'm dying to see the new rules. I wonder if they will bring my beloved Blood Angels to the glory of actually being playable against people who aren't just fielding junk to humor me, something that hasn't happened often since BA became an independent faction
I really hope there are at least a couple of decent ways to play them, rather than "oh look, that's awesome, everyone build that!"
Edit/add --
The Limited Edition looks so tempting. If only I didn't "know" (suspect) that 8e was coming out NEXT YEAR, I would so snap that up. :(
casvalremdeikun wrote: I hope the Wargear of Baal changes bring the prices of everything in line with C:SM. I am hoping the Captain Datasheets allows a Cataphractii Captain, especially given that out Devastators are getting Grav Cannons.
Not sure why you want cat armour since that's been faqed not to spread slow and purposefull(good thing too)
casvalremdeikun wrote: I hope the Wargear of Baal changes bring the prices of everything in line with C:SM. I am hoping the Captain Datasheets allows a Cataphractii Captain, especially given that out Devastators are getting Grav Cannons.
Not sure why you want cat armour since that's been faqed not to spread slow and purposefull(good thing too)
Where or when did that happen? It totally goes against the rules as written.
As an avid Blood Angels player (I'm currently trying to get rid of collection), the new repackaged sets that advertise the Archangels, or the BA first company,they do seem quite an overly charged item. Take the BA tactical squad and the vanguard veterans squad.
BA squad: 10minis, 10+ shoulders, arms, backpacks, guns etc, $43
Vanguard veteran squad: 5 mins, probably only 5 shoulder upgrades $45
The original versions are the same price, however, if you buy the tactical set, you not only get more blood angels specific items, you save $2. So essentially, " [paying] less is more [bits]" - I don't know who said it. Don't know if this was understandable, but that's my $2 VS rant . Y'all have a good day
@celestialpainting - if it's like the DW kits, the upgrade sprues in all the boxes are probably identical regardless of models in a box (after all, the single model commander and the razorback came with the same upgrade sprue) -- meaning the BA one will be 10 shoulders, 1 cup, 1 torso front, 1 dagger, etc.
I kinda like the direction of the packaging and such. I would have liked it better if they had just sold the upgrade sprues for $5 But it's all good, the way its packaged makes it easier for someone who's new to the faction or the hobby to get the right "set" with matching artwork on the box and all that.
@Talys- that stops my rant! After I posted just to make sure I was right but I saw the additional upgrade sprue. I agree in the sense that they made it friendlier for someone to get into the hobby
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
This could be promising.
How so? You've already got sanguinary and the other 4 are the same marine powers that vanilla got in angels of death and then CSM got spiky versions of in traitors hate. Everyone already knows exactly what they are and what they do. In fact, didn't BA, SW, GK and DA get access to the 4 new disciplines when they first came out or am I misremembering?
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
This could be promising.
How so? You've already got sanguinary and the other 4 are the same marine powers that vanilla got in angels of death and then CSM got spiky versions of in traitors hate. Everyone already knows exactly what they are and what they do. In fact, didn't BA, SW, GK and DA get access to the 4 new disciplines when they first came out or am I misremembering?
RAI they did because of the reference card, however there weren't any rules telling you which Psykers from the non-Vanilla Loyalist flavours could actually generate their powers from the 4 disciplines.
So really nothing has changed unless you played strictly RAW.
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
This could be promising.
How so? You've already got sanguinary and the other 4 are the same marine powers that vanilla got in angels of death and then CSM got spiky versions of in traitors hate. Everyone already knows exactly what they are and what they do. In fact, didn't BA, SW, GK and DA get access to the 4 new disciplines when they first came out or am I misremembering?
RAI they did because of the reference card, however there weren't any rules telling you which Psykers from the non-Vanilla Loyalist flavours could actually generate their powers from the 4 disciplines.
So really nothing has changed unless you played strictly RAW.
I thought RAW is "As Written"
And it was written on the very deck and also in White dwarf introducing it.
Who doesn't love a good war zone map?
We think they're great.
When the Blood Angels arrive in the Diamor System, the forces of Chaos have already established a solid foothold on several planets. With most of their Chapter still preparing the Baal System for the oncoming advance of Tyranids, can the 1st, 2nd and 5th Companies of the Blood Angels blunt the assault of the traitor vanguard?
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
This could be promising.
How so? You've already got sanguinary and the other 4 are the same marine powers that vanilla got in angels of death and then CSM got spiky versions of in traitors hate. Everyone already knows exactly what they are and what they do. In fact, didn't BA, SW, GK and DA get access to the 4 new disciplines when they first came out or am I misremembering?
RAI they did because of the reference card, however there weren't any rules telling you which Psykers from the non-Vanilla Loyalist flavours could actually generate their powers from the 4 disciplines.
So really nothing has changed unless you played strictly RAW.
I thought RAW is "As Written"
Spoiler:
And it was written on the very deck and also in White dwarf introducing it.
The actual 'rule' is in the Angels of Death book and makes no mention of the psychic powers being usable by anyone other than psykers from Codex Space Marines. In the past, GW has stated that the actual rule takes precedence over any references when they contradict. However since this is off topic for this thread, you can continue it in YMDC if you wish...
The actual 'rule' is in the Angels of Death book and makes no mention of the psychic powers being usable by anyone other than psykers from Codex Space Marines. In the past, GW has stated that the actual rule takes precedence over any references when they contradict. However since this
is off topic for this thread, you can continue it in YMDC if you wish...
What 'rule' ? The rules are stand-alone - the deck itself IS the rule that comes with reference table - AoD have nothing extensive to that. Moreover New Deck > Angels of Death
Angel of death only specifies that librarians in supplement may use this as well.
It does not forbid anything to other factions
So we have 2 sources that strictly names BA as valid users of new deck and 1 source that states SM among other faction as valid users - I see no conflict with RAW nor RAI
And why this is offtopic?
I thought this powers will be included in supplement - at least they were in limited edition print
I wish they'd bundled the two sets of rules into a single book and had the fluff book lime the normal campaign sets. I'm a little sad they didnt. I love the campaign fluff books.
Who doesn't love a good war zone map?
We think they're great.
When the Blood Angels arrive in the Diamor System, the forces of Chaos have already established a solid foothold on several planets. With most of their Chapter still preparing the Baal System for the oncoming advance of Tyranids, can the 1st, 2nd and 5th Companies of the Blood Angels blunt the assault of the traitor vanguard?
Who doesn't love creative planet names? Diamond, Apatite, Onyx, Tourmaline, Peridot, Iolite, Topaz, Zircon, Amethyst... Some even have the typical colours.
Goin back to psycic powers, I was under the impression that BA couldn't use pyromancy. I was using a psyker and on the card it said that BA were the only ones that couldn't use it. I even checked with the manager and he said base th opinion of the newest publication.
It's a topic that you can argue til your blue in the face if you wish. Yes, a card says that Blood Angels can use Geokinesis. So sure, the discipline is available to the faction.
But none of the units in the codex say they can pull from them. For instance, Mephiston says you can generate two powers from Sanguinary, Biomancy, Daemonology, Divination and Pyromancy.
The card doesn't have Sanguinary in there.
So does that mean Mephiston gets all the indicated disciplines PLUS Sanguinary, or that if you use the Angels of Death rules, you get rid of Sanguinary? How about all the other psykers? Etc.
Most friendly games will let you pull from any of the disciplines. But then again, most friendly games will let you play a centurion or grav cannon if you want too.
The actual 'rule' is in the Angels of Death book and makes no mention of the psychic powers being usable by anyone other than psykers from Codex Space Marines. In the past, GW has stated that the actual rule takes precedence over any references when they contradict. However since this
is off topic for this thread, you can continue it in YMDC if you wish...
What 'rule' ? The rules are stand-alone - the deck itself IS the rule that comes with reference table - AoD have nothing extensive to that. Moreover New Deck > Angels of Death
Angel of death only specifies that librarians in supplement may use this as well.
It does not forbid anything to other factions
So we have 2 sources that strictly names BA as valid users of new deck and 1 source that states SM among other faction as valid users - I see no conflict with RAW nor RAI
And why this is offtopic?
I thought this powers will be included in supplement - at least they were in limited edition print
Using a White Dwarf to support your answer? As a Tyranid player I can tell you how WRONG White Dwarf get's their rules. I clearly remember WD telling Nid and Chaos players could use Imperial Knights before they were released. We all know how that turned out to be, or how Genestealer Cult are Battlebrothers with Nids, and we all know how that turned out.
Talys wrote: It's a topic that you can argue til your blue in the face if you wish.
But none of the units in the codex say they can pull from them.
As if it's only was a 1988 and there was only one verified source of rules.
But it's 2016 and using that kind of logic we couldn't use so many stuff that is outside of the codex (poor CSM sorcerers - they don't even know the daemonology)
Not to mention the FAQ and all the other sources.
But yeah why not pretend like it's 88s.
What else can verify the officiality of the rules? Personal phone-call from Phill Kelly? Dinner with Jervis Johnson?)
Who doesn't love a good war zone map?
We think they're great.
When the Blood Angels arrive in the Diamor System, the forces of Chaos have already established a solid foothold on several planets. With most of their Chapter still preparing the Baal System for the oncoming advance of Tyranids, can the 1st, 2nd and 5th Companies of the Blood Angels blunt the assault of the traitor vanguard?
Who doesn't love creative planet names? Diamond, Apatite, Onyx, Tourmaline, Peridot, Iolite, Topaz, Zircon, Amethyst... Some even have the typical colours.
Talys wrote: It's a topic that you can argue til your blue in the face if you wish.
But none of the units in the codex say they can pull from them.
As if it's only was a 1988 and there was only one verified source of rules.
But it's 2016 and using that kind of logic we couldn't use so many stuff that is outside of the codex (poor CSM sorcerers - they don't even know the daemonology)
Not to mention the FAQ and all the other sources.
But yeah why not pretend like it's 88s.
What else can verify the officiality of the rules? Personal phone-call from Phill Kelly? Dinner with Jervis Johnson?)
The point is that the reference card only lists factions and whether or not they have access to a discipline. It doesnt tell you any model which uses the new disciplines. Do all Grey Knights get access? Not all psykers in a Codex have equal access to the older disciplines, too - even though the ref card say that 'the faction' does. There are factions that dont have a single model that could access a discipline listed for them.
Point me to a rule that says your psyker model may access the new disciplines like AoD does for all Space Marine psykers. If you can't, it doesnt have access.
Can we not with this psychic power thing in this thread? I see 2+ pages of new posts and think formation rules might be leaked or something and instead it's an old, re-hashed YMDC topic that needs to go to YMDC, not News & Rumors.
Who doesn't love a good war zone map?
We think they're great.
When the Blood Angels arrive in the Diamor System, the forces of Chaos have already established a solid foothold on several planets. With most of their Chapter still preparing the Baal System for the oncoming advance of Tyranids, can the 1st, 2nd and 5th Companies of the Blood Angels blunt the assault of the traitor vanguard?
Who doesn't love creative planet names? Diamond, Apatite, Onyx, Tourmaline, Peridot, Iolite, Topaz, Zircon, Amethyst... Some even have the typical colours.
Will there also be a planet named Steven?
Not in this war zone, it would be too obvious. It will appear in the Sugsubstia zone along with Saccharia, Aspartomus, Cycloriam and Sucralor were the Eldar fight off obese Nurgle worshippers.
----
Mmh, okay. The naming isn't that bad. Most people don't know half of the minerals (it's not common knowledge) and if they find out they'd have learned something. It's not like I didn't learn new things from 40k....
Talys wrote: It's a topic that you can argue til your blue in the face if you wish. But none of the units in the codex say they can pull from them.
As if it's only was a 1988 and there was only one verified source of rules. But it's 2016 and using that kind of logic we couldn't use so many stuff that is outside of the codex (poor CSM sorcerers - they don't even know the daemonology) Not to mention the FAQ and all the other sources. But yeah why not pretend like it's 88s.
What else can verify the officiality of the rules? Personal phone-call from Phill Kelly? Dinner with Jervis Johnson?)
The point is that the reference card only lists factions and whether or not they have access to a discipline. It doesnt tell you any model which uses the new disciplines. Do all Grey Knights get access? Not all psykers in a Codex have equal access to the older disciplines, too - even though the ref card say that 'the faction' does. There are factions that dont have a single model that could access a discipline listed for them. Point me to a rule that says your psyker model may access the new disciplines like AoD does for all Space Marine psykers. If you can't, it doesnt have access.
Yes, thank you -- that was exactly my point.
And the card, notably, has no Sanguinary discipline. Maybe it's for some future models. Maybe it's for future datasheets that have other balancing factors (like stats or points, or maybe they're going to get rid of Sanguinary). Maybe it's just for some as-yet printed datahseets. Or just a single hero that's down the line.
Keep in mind, I initially said that this was a promising sign (that there were meaningful changes) -- a jibe at my own previous post, where I had joked with someone about the ultimate troll codex being 40+ datasheets that are unchanged from the old ones I did not think I was being controversial, LOL.
My gut feelings are that Blood Angel Devastators are going to be allowed to take Heavy Flamers to be in line with Tacticals being allowed to take one HF - still lets them charge. Keeps it in line with the Grav Cannon upgrade that vanilla and DA got for their Tacticals and Devastators. Right? Right?
Assault Marines will probably just be allowed to be taken as troops, failing that they'll pay full price for Rhinos (except in BA Gladius) and possibly an Evisecerator for 5.
The formation pictures look kind of cool I guess. Now you just need some good rules for them
Frozocrone wrote: My gut feelings are that Blood Angel Devastators are going to be allowed to take Heavy Flamers to be in line with Tacticals being allowed to take one HF - still lets them charge. Keeps it in line with the Grav Cannon upgrade that vanilla and DA got for their Tacticals and Devastators. Right? Right?
Assault Marines will probably just be allowed to be taken as troops, failing that they'll pay full price for Rhinos (except in BA Gladius) and possibly an Evisecerator for 5.
The formation pictures look kind of cool I guess. Now you just need some good rules for them
Not likely. I am guessing that the revised Wargear list will have Grav Cannons under the Heavy Weapons section, allowing both Tactical Squads and Devastator Squads to take them. I would be okay with Assault Marine Troops, for sure. I really just want Assault out of Deep Strike. Should have been an army wide rule from the get go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rules Leaks from 4chan (take them as you will)
Sanguine Council
>Harness Sanguine on 3+, council shares Blessings that target the Psyker specifically
>Archcangels Orbital Intervention Force
>shoot twice or charge after deep strike as long as you don't scatter, Objective Secured
I like that cavate about charging after deepstrike if true. I would prefer to leave the heavy flamer squad to the Sister players though. Got to have some uniqueness to each army.
Frozocrone wrote: Orbital Intervention Force seems to have changed then. Before you could run and shoot.
Might be interesting with the 3 Stormraven formation if its true.
It would work great paired with some Drop Pods with Locator beacons. Turn 1, put down the drop pods, turn 2 put down the Terminators and charge.
Throw a Sanguinary Priest in one squad for the +1WS, and a Chaplain in another for re-rolls to hit on the charge. Terminators could finally be fun again.
If that Sanguine Council stuff is true, assuming three Psykers, you take Mephiston with Sanguinary, one Librarian with Biomancy and one with Electromancy then let the good times roll as Mephiston becomes a complete monster with all those shared Blessings
diepotato47 wrote: If that Sanguine Council stuff is true, assuming three Psykers, you take Mephiston with Sanguinary, one Librarian with Biomancy and one with Electromancy then let the good times roll as Mephiston becomes a complete monster with all those shared Blessings
Actually, taking Librarius might be better than Biomancy. Veil of Time and/or Might of Heroes would be nuts. But Endurance and Iron Arm would be crazy as well. Especially if any of those powers get combined with Quickening.
Frozocrone wrote: My gut feelings are that Blood Angel Devastators are going to be allowed to take Heavy Flamers to be in line with Tacticals being allowed to take one HF - still lets them charge. Keeps it in line with the Grav Cannon upgrade that vanilla and DA got for their Tacticals and Devastators. Right? Right?
Assault Marines will probably just be allowed to be taken as troops, failing that they'll pay full price for Rhinos (except in BA Gladius) and possibly an Evisecerator for 5.
The formation pictures look kind of cool I guess. Now you just need some good rules for them
Not likely. I am guessing that the revised Wargear list will have Grav Cannons under the Heavy Weapons section, allowing both Tactical Squads and Devastator Squads to take them. I would be okay with Assault Marine Troops, for sure. I really just want Assault out of Deep Strike. Should have been an army wide rule from the get go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rules Leaks from 4chan (take them as you will)
Sanguine Council
>Harness Sanguine on 3+, council shares Blessings that target the Psyker specifically
>Archcangels Orbital Intervention Force
>shoot twice or charge after deep strike as long as you don't scatter, Objective Secured
There is not enough words to describe how much i would like this to be truth...
So there is nothing more from that source?
Visited /tg but it's quiet there
No other posts on Warhammer 40K General. Now I am torn on what direction I want to though. Do I build a Battle Demi-Company and hope I can find a good Auxiliary (would need another Tactical Squad, Assault Squads, and Devastator Squads plus transports), or do I bust out the Terminator Squads. I will probably just order it the day the book comes out and leaks are more concrete.
diepotato47 wrote: If that Sanguine Council stuff is true, assuming three Psykers, you take Mephiston with Sanguinary, one Librarian with Biomancy and one with Electromancy then let the good times roll as Mephiston becomes a complete monster with all those shared Blessings
Actually, taking Librarius might be better than Biomancy. Veil of Time and/or Might of Heroes would be nuts. But Endurance and Iron Arm would be crazy as well. Especially if any of those powers get combined with Quickening.
diepotato47 wrote: If that Sanguine Council stuff is true, assuming three Psykers, you take Mephiston with Sanguinary, one Librarian with Biomancy and one with Electromancy then let the good times roll as Mephiston becomes a complete monster with all those shared Blessings
Actually, taking Librarius might be better than Biomancy. Veil of Time and/or Might of Heroes would be nuts. But Endurance and Iron Arm would be crazy as well. Especially if any of those powers get combined with Quickening.
I just noticed that the Archangels Demi-Company on the GW website does not have a Captain. Is this an oversight on the site's part or maybe the formation does not need one?
diepotato47 wrote: I just noticed that the Archangels Demi-Company on the GW website does not have a Captain. Is this an oversight on the site's part or maybe the formation does not need one?
It will undoubtedly need one. Who knows why it doesn't have one though. They could have put the Terminator Chaplain in there instead, if they wanted.
Eldarain wrote: Ah yes, the first inklings of how much better this book will be than Traitor's Hate. I can feel my long time CSM bitterness rising once more.
You can't complain you accepted this when you got into CSM, they are meant to lose everytime and be terribad. /s
Sucks to be chaos yet again. Almost feels like CSM are a NPC race at this point
Yeah, the limited's were up for about 2 days? I would blame ebayers, but 48 hours is way too slow for those people if that were true.
I preordered mine walking into our local GW store on Saturday.
I missed out on the Blood Angels Datacards, so this was a huge must buy for me Ready to join the limited edition club.
I can't wait till actual leaks of the new datasheets and formations come out. I'm probably going to buy more Death Company and finally buy some Terminator squads.
I lost to Orks on Saturday by playing terribly. =_=
I'm a little miffed that the Enhanced eBook edition of Angel's Blade is US$51.99, but the hard back book is only US$49.50. GW's price point and profit margin on one of these two things is quite high.
Frozocrone wrote: My gut feelings are that Blood Angel Devastators are going to be allowed to take Heavy Flamers to be in line with Tacticals being allowed to take one HF - still lets them charge. Keeps it in line with the Grav Cannon upgrade that vanilla and DA got for their Tacticals and Devastators. Right? Right?
Assault Marines will probably just be allowed to be taken as troops, failing that they'll pay full price for Rhinos (except in BA Gladius) and possibly an Evisecerator for 5.
The formation pictures look kind of cool I guess. Now you just need some good rules for them
Not likely. I am guessing that the revised Wargear list will have Grav Cannons under the Heavy Weapons section, allowing both Tactical Squads and Devastator Squads to take them. I would be okay with Assault Marine Troops, for sure. I really just want Assault out of Deep Strike. Should have been an army wide rule from the get go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rules Leaks from 4chan (take them as you will)
Sanguine Council
>Harness Sanguine on 3+, council shares Blessings that target the Psyker specifically
>Archcangels Orbital Intervention Force
>shoot twice or charge after deep strike as long as you don't scatter, Objective Secured
maku wrote: Yeah, the limited's were up for about 2 days? I would blame ebayers, but 48 hours is way too slow for those people if that were true.
I preordered mine walking into our local GW store on Saturday.
I missed out on the Blood Angels Datacards, so this was a huge must buy for me Ready to join the limited edition club.
I can't wait till actual leaks of the new datasheets and formations come out. I'm probably going to buy more Death Company and finally buy some Terminator squads.
I lost to Orks on Saturday by playing terribly. =_=
maku wrote: Yeah, the limited's were up for about 2 days? I would blame ebayers, but 48 hours is way too slow for those people if that were true.
I preordered mine walking into our local GW store on Saturday.
I missed out on the Blood Angels Datacards, so this was a huge must buy for me Ready to join the limited edition club.
I can't wait till actual leaks of the new datasheets and formations come out. I'm probably going to buy more Death Company and finally buy some Terminator squads.
I lost to Orks on Saturday by playing terribly. =_=
Save your money -- with 8e around the corner.
Is 8e really around the corner? I'd give it another 2 years no?
maku wrote: Yeah, the limited's were up for about 2 days? I would blame ebayers, but 48 hours is way too slow for those people if that were true.
I preordered mine walking into our local GW store on Saturday.
I missed out on the Blood Angels Datacards, so this was a huge must buy for me Ready to join the limited edition club.
I can't wait till actual leaks of the new datasheets and formations come out. I'm probably going to buy more Death Company and finally buy some Terminator squads.
I lost to Orks on Saturday by playing terribly. =_=
Save your money -- with 8e around the corner.
Is 8e really around the corner? I'd give it another 2 years no?
No. Our most reliable sources place eighth edition sometime in 2017.
I like the bits of metal twaddle they bundle with these LE codexes. I would buy those on their own for a reasonable price. Don't really have it in me to buy an LE though. I bought LECSM and LE Eldar (previous one), they weren't too pricey even if you basically only got a nicer cover
Bull0 wrote: I like the bits of metal twaddle they bundle with these LE codexes. I would buy those on their own for a reasonable price. Don't really have it in me to buy an LE though. I bought LECSM and LE Eldar (previous one), they weren't too pricey even if you basically only got a nicer cover
There is no incentive for them to make them a reasonable price because they sell out at unreasonable prices (which I suppose means its reasonable?). I agree tho, pretty wild to spend so much money on the same book + pieces of metal
Bull0 wrote: I like the bits of metal twaddle they bundle with these LE codexes. I would buy those on their own for a reasonable price. Don't really have it in me to buy an LE though. I bought LECSM and LE Eldar (previous one), they weren't too pricey even if you basically only got a nicer cover
There is no incentive for them to make them a reasonable price because they sell out at unreasonable prices (which I suppose means its reasonable?). I agree tho, pretty wild to spend so much money on the same book + pieces of metal
Yes and no, supply and demand, etc etc etc. Selling 1,000 things at a £5 profit is better than selling 100 at a £20 profit. The VSG was limited and we've seen that return in a more sensible form (still way too pricey, mind)
Plastic VSG was on allocation, and was sold out before it hit the shelves around here. Heck, I think they were sold out before stores could order them. I think it's a really nice terrain kit -- the prices are in line with other comparable terrain kits like the tau stuff or the plasma obliterator, or AoS stuff. Of course, you can argue that it's all too expensive, but clearly there's a demand.
Either way, much better than resin VSG on ebay, hehehe.
With the book, I would buy a LE book for one of my favorite factions, but not if it's lifespan is going to be like a year.
Hi guys, I do not actually have the codex but some guy was nice enough to send me pictures. It is in French so posting pictures is quite useless. I do not have it all, but here it is :
New QG : death company chaplain (actual cost +35). Same statline, has inferno pistol, jump pack and the Astorath reroll to wound rule.
Grav-cannon and eviscerator as anticipated.
New stuff: a thunder hammer master crafted for 6 meltabombs.
Formations are the following (I do not have them all):
Angel’s blade strike force (meta detachment)
Bonus: reroll warlord trait, red thirst (same as now) and zealot for every unit below half initial size (rounded below).
Core: battle demi company or archangels demi company
Command: Golden host, Leader of the angelic host, chapter ancients
Auxiliary: Archangel orbital intervention, 10th company ambush, death company strike force, Lucifer armoured task force, stormraven squadron, rapid assault force, fire support force
Lost brotherhood (meta detachement)
Bonus: Reroll warlord trait, red thirst, and 6” free move just after you deploy an unit. Does not work with reserves.
Core: death company strike force
Command: Death company command (1-3 astorath, lemarted, DC chaplain)
Aux: orbital intervention, 10th company support, Lucifer armoured task force, stormraven squadron, rapid assault force
Battle demi company (core)
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad (if the captain is chosen)
3 tactical
1 assault, bike, attack bike or land speeder
1 dev squad
1 dreadnought
1 furioso dreadnought (if the chaplain is chosen)
Bonus: reroll warlord trait if main detachment and red thirst (same as now). YES it is the SAME bonus as in the angel’s blade strike force…WTFGW. No obsec.
AWFUL
Archangels orbital intervention force (auxiliary)
3 units of the assault or regular terminators
Bonus: all units must be put in reserve and roll together. No reroll.
When the deep strike, regular terminator can fire twice and assault terminator can charge (but count has a disoriented charge).
NICE !
Archangels demi company (core)
1 termi captain
2 furioso dreadnoughts
5 units of terminators, vanguards or sternguards
Bonus: stubborn, reserve roll turn 1, reroll reserve roll, scatter D6 less and reroll warlord trait if main detachment.
Quite nice but that is a huge point sink..
10th company ambush force (auxiliary)
3-5 units or either scouts or biker scouts
Scout bikers must buy mines
Bonus: stealth long as you don’t move if you infiltrate.
Precision shots during the first turn.
Ok I guess
Stormraven squadron (auxiliary)
2-4 stormravens
At the beginning of your turn, once per battle, you can fire all your stormstrike missiles at a target and still fire in the following shooting phase
Lucifer armoured task force (auxiliary)
1 techmarine
3-5 units of baal predator or regular predators
1-3 units of land raiderd, or crusader, redeemer
Bonus: SCOUT, and boosted engines (FAST) free for every vehicle as well as for the land raiders !
YAY ! 12” scouting land raiders ! woooot
Death company strike force (Aux or core)
1 DC chaplain
3 DC squads
1-3 DC dread
Bonus: unknown
Rapid assault force (aux)
1-3 assault, bike, attack bike, speeders
Bonus: unknown
Fire support force (aux)
1-3 devastator, vindicator, whirlwind
Golden host (Command)
Sanguinor OR Dante
2-5 sanguinary guard
Bonus: unknown
Looks really nice with dante and only 2 units of sang guard. My guess is they get deep strike at least.
Leaders of the angelic host (command)
1 captain, termi captain, librarian, meph, sang priest, brother corbulo;
0-1 command squad;
0-1 stormraven
Chapter ancients (command)
3-5 dreadnoughts (librarian, regular or furioso)
Bonus: Once during the battle, at the beginning of your turn, you can fire as if you were in the shooting phase or pile in and fight in close combat, instead of moving during your movement phase.
Each dreadnought can perform a different action (fire, fight or move).
Death company relics
- 2+ armor with adamantium will and crusader – 6 meltabombs
- 2-handed power axe, Str of user, master crafted, armorbane – 6 meltabombs
- Counter attack stuff – 6 meltabombs
- Template pistol 4+ poisoned AP6 – 4 meltabombs
- Inferno pistol 12” master crafted – can’t see price
- DC chaplain only crozius: AP3 and reroll FNP rolls of 1 for every model that has the rule in his unit – 5 meltabombs => quite ok
Tamwulf wrote: I'm a little miffed that the Enhanced eBook edition of Angel's Blade is US$51.99, but the hard back book is only US$49.50. GW's price point and profit margin on one of these two things is quite high.
Really GW? One step forward, two steps back...
To be fair the only company worst at price gouging then GW is Apple. I can only imagine thier markup for the applestore. You place these two companies together and I fully expect the enhanced edition to be worst than a paperback edition book.
Honestly after buying a ton of enhanced books I realized I like print books better but don't like lugging around 20 books so I plan to buy printed codex and small rules only edition BRB and enhanced supplements only which i really only use for an occassionally reference anyway.
Bull0 wrote: I like the bits of metal twaddle they bundle with these LE codexes. I would buy those on their own for a reasonable price. Don't really have it in me to buy an LE though. I bought LECSM and LE Eldar (previous one), they weren't too pricey even if you basically only got a nicer cover
There is no incentive for them to make them a reasonable price because they sell out at unreasonable prices (which I suppose means its reasonable?). I agree tho, pretty wild to spend so much money on the same book + pieces of metal
Yes and no, supply and demand, etc etc etc. Selling 1,000 things at a £5 profit is better than selling 100 at a £20 profit. The VSG was limited and we've seen that return in a more sensible form (still way too pricey, mind)
Hence why they sold 750 copies and not 100 and also why there is an entire team devoted to marketing and pricing. To guesstimate on what's the best price/quantity point for the highest profit. Regardless limited editions are not necessary and mostly just swag.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Talys wrote: Plastic VSG was on allocation, and was sold out before it hit the shelves around here. Heck, I think they were sold out before stores could order them. I think it's a really nice terrain kit -- the prices are in line with other comparable terrain kits like the tau stuff or the plasma obliterator, or AoS stuff. Of course, you can argue that it's all too expensive, but clearly there's a demand.
Either way, much better than resin VSG on ebay, hehehe.
With the book, I would buy a LE book for one of my favorite factions, but not if it's lifespan is going to be like a year.
The original vsg was an odd kit as it wasn't resin but polystone and afaik the first polystone product GW ever made. I think it was a test product to be honest.
Draner wrote: Hi guys, I do not actually have the codex but some guy was nice enough to send me pictures. It is in French so posting pictures is quite useless. I do not have it all, but here it is :
New QG : death company chaplain (actual cost +35). Same statline, has inferno pistol, jump pack and the Astorath reroll to wound rule.
Grav-cannon and eviscerator as anticipated.
New stuff: a thunder hammer master crafted for 6 meltabombs.
Formations are the following (I do not have them all):
Angel’s blade strike force (meta detachment)
Bonus: reroll warlord trait, red thirst (same as now) and zealot for every unit below half initial size (rounded below).
Core: battle demi company or archangels demi company
Command: Golden host, Leader of the angelic host, chapter ancients
Auxiliary: Archangel orbital intervention, 10th company ambush, death company strike force, Lucifer armoured task force, stormraven squadron, rapid assault force, fire support force
Lost brotherhood (meta detachement)
Bonus: Reroll warlord trait, red thirst, and 6” free move just after you deploy an unit. Does not work with reserves.
Core: death company strike force
Command: Death company command (1-3 astorath, lemarted, DC chaplain)
Aux: orbital intervention, 10th company support, Lucifer armoured task force, stormraven squadron, rapid assault force
Battle demi company (core)
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad (if the captain is chosen)
3 tactical
1 assault, bike, attack bike or land speeder
1 dev squad
1 dreadnought
1 furioso dreadnought (if the chaplain is chosen)
Bonus: reroll warlord trait if main detachment and red thirst (same as now). YES it is the SAME bonus as in the angel’s blade strike force…WTFGW. No obsec.
AWFUL
Archangels orbital intervention force (auxiliary)
3 units of the assault or regular terminators
Bonus: all units must be put in reserve and roll together. No reroll.
When the deep strike, regular terminator can fire twice and assault terminator can charge (but count has a disoriented charge).
NICE !
Archangels demi company (core)
1 termi captain
2 furioso dreadnoughts
5 units of terminators, vanguards or sternguards
Bonus: stubborn, reserve roll turn 1, reroll reserve roll, scatter D6 less and reroll warlord trait if main detachment.
Quite nice but that is a huge point sink..
10th company ambush force (auxiliary)
3-5 units or either scouts or biker scouts
Scout bikers must buy mines
Bonus: stealth long as you don’t move if you infiltrate.
Precision shots during the first turn.
Ok I guess
Stormraven squadron (auxiliary)
2-4 stormravens
At the beginning of your turn, once per battle, you can fire all your stormstrike missiles at a target and still fire in the following shooting phase
Lucifer armoured task force (auxiliary)
1 techmarine
3-5 units of baal predator or regular predators
1-3 units of land raiderd, or crusader, redeemer
Bonus: SCOUT, and boosted engines (FAST) free for every vehicle as well as for the land raiders !
YAY ! 12” scouting land raiders ! woooot
Death company strike force (Aux or core)
1 DC chaplain
3 DC squads
1-3 DC dread
Bonus: unknown
Rapid assault force (aux)
1-3 assault, bike, attack bike, speeders
Bonus: unknown
Fire support force (aux)
1-3 devastator, vindicator, whirlwind
Golden host (Command)
Sanguinor OR Dante
2-5 sanguinary guard
Bonus: unknown
Looks really nice with dante and only 2 units of sang guard. My guess is they get deep strike at least.
Leaders of the angelic host (command)
1 captain, termi captain, librarian, meph, sang priest, brother corbulo;
0-1 command squad;
0-1 stormraven
Chapter ancients (command)
3-5 dreadnoughts (librarian, regular or furioso)
Bonus: Once during the battle, at the beginning of your turn, you can fire as if you were in the shooting phase or pile in and fight in close combat, instead of moving during your movement phase.
Each dreadnought can perform a different action (fire, fight or move).
Death company relics
- 2+ armor with adamantium will and crusader – 6 meltabombs
- 2-handed power axe, Str of user, master crafted, armorbane – 6 meltabombs
- Counter attack stuff – 6 meltabombs
- Template pistol 4+ poisoned AP6 – 4 meltabombs
- Inferno pistol 12” master crafted – can’t see price
- DC chaplain only crozius: AP3 and reroll FNP rolls of 1 for every model that has the rule in his unit – 5 meltabombs => quite ok
I mean... i really hope you forgot to mention free transports for BA battle company.. Like all the other space marine battle companies..
I mean... i really hope you forgot to mention free transports for BA battle company.. Like all the other space marine battle companies..
If by "all the other space marine battle companies" you mean "Two Battle Demi-Companies in a Gladius Strike Force, one with a Chaplain and one with a Captain"? Sure!
I mean... i really hope you forgot to mention free transports for BA battle company.. Like all the other space marine battle companies..
Sorry dude, this is just crap.
Haha, yeah i was just wish listing. Didn't mean to sound unappreciative of the info!
There is no point running a battle company (ie two Demi companies) unless your running one of the free transports builds. Like dark angels or white scars, or iron hands. I actually think the other stuff sounds decent. Unfortunately the red thirst is an awful benefit.
Draner wrote: Hi guys, I do not actually have the codex but some guy was nice enough to send me pictures. It is in French so posting pictures is quite useless. I do not have it all, but here it is :
New QG : death company chaplain (actual cost +35). Same statline, has inferno pistol, jump pack and the Astorath reroll to wound rule.
Grav-cannon and eviscerator as anticipated.
New stuff: a thunder hammer master crafted for 6 meltabombs.
Formations are the following (I do not have them all):
Angel’s blade strike force (meta detachment)
Bonus: reroll warlord trait, red thirst (same as now) and zealot for every unit below half initial size (rounded below).
Core: battle demi company or archangels demi company
Command: Golden host, Leader of the angelic host, chapter ancients
Auxiliary: Archangel orbital intervention, 10th company ambush, death company strike force, Lucifer armoured task force, stormraven squadron, rapid assault force, fire support force
Lost brotherhood (meta detachement)
Bonus: Reroll warlord trait, red thirst, and 6” free move just after you deploy an unit. Does not work with reserves.
Core: death company strike force
Command: Death company command (1-3 astorath, lemarted, DC chaplain)
Aux: orbital intervention, 10th company support, Lucifer armoured task force, stormraven squadron, rapid assault force
Battle demi company (core)
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad (if the captain is chosen)
3 tactical
1 assault, bike, attack bike or land speeder
1 dev squad
1 dreadnought
1 furioso dreadnought (if the chaplain is chosen)
Bonus: reroll warlord trait if main detachment and red thirst (same as now). YES it is the SAME bonus as in the angel’s blade strike force…WTFGW. No obsec.
AWFUL
Archangels orbital intervention force (auxiliary)
3 units of the assault or regular terminators
Bonus: all units must be put in reserve and roll together. No reroll.
When the deep strike, regular terminator can fire twice and assault terminator can charge (but count has a disoriented charge).
NICE !
Archangels demi company (core)
1 termi captain
2 furioso dreadnoughts
5 units of terminators, vanguards or sternguards
Bonus: stubborn, reserve roll turn 1, reroll reserve roll, scatter D6 less and reroll warlord trait if main detachment.
Quite nice but that is a huge point sink..
10th company ambush force (auxiliary)
3-5 units or either scouts or biker scouts
Scout bikers must buy mines
Bonus: stealth long as you don’t move if you infiltrate.
Precision shots during the first turn.
Ok I guess
Stormraven squadron (auxiliary)
2-4 stormravens
At the beginning of your turn, once per battle, you can fire all your stormstrike missiles at a target and still fire in the following shooting phase
Lucifer armoured task force (auxiliary)
1 techmarine
3-5 units of baal predator or regular predators
1-3 units of land raiderd, or crusader, redeemer
Bonus: SCOUT, and boosted engines (FAST) free for every vehicle as well as for the land raiders !
YAY ! 12” scouting land raiders ! woooot
Death company strike force (Aux or core)
1 DC chaplain
3 DC squads
1-3 DC dread
Bonus: unknown
Rapid assault force (aux)
1-3 assault, bike, attack bike, speeders
Bonus: unknown
Fire support force (aux)
1-3 devastator, vindicator, whirlwind
Golden host (Command)
Sanguinor OR Dante
2-5 sanguinary guard
Bonus: unknown
Looks really nice with dante and only 2 units of sang guard. My guess is they get deep strike at least.
Leaders of the angelic host (command)
1 captain, termi captain, librarian, meph, sang priest, brother corbulo;
0-1 command squad;
0-1 stormraven
Chapter ancients (command)
3-5 dreadnoughts (librarian, regular or furioso)
Bonus: Once during the battle, at the beginning of your turn, you can fire as if you were in the shooting phase or pile in and fight in close combat, instead of moving during your movement phase.
Each dreadnought can perform a different action (fire, fight or move).
Death company relics
- 2+ armor with adamantium will and crusader – 6 meltabombs
- 2-handed power axe, Str of user, master crafted, armorbane – 6 meltabombs
- Counter attack stuff – 6 meltabombs
- Template pistol 4+ poisoned AP6 – 4 meltabombs
- Inferno pistol 12” master crafted – can’t see price
- DC chaplain only crozius: AP3 and reroll FNP rolls of 1 for every model that has the rule in his unit – 5 meltabombs => quite ok
Thanks ! Much appreciated ! Some good stuff here.
However, you could / should post the pictures anyways, as there are some French here, and some people can read French (or use Google ).
gungo wrote: To be fair the only company worst at price gouging then GW is Apple. I can only imagine thier markup for the applestore. You place these two companies together and I fully expect the enhanced edition to be worst than a paperback edition book.
Apple take a 30% cut of all sales through their stores or any iOS apps. It stings.
That Chapter Ancients formation looks pretty cool
Pile In and Fight Twice with DC/Furioso Dreads is gonna hurt people A LOT
(Field it with the Stormraven Formations to Drop them off in the Enemy Deployment Zone Turn 3 (1 no reserves, 2 Stormravens Come In, 3 Hover stormravens and charge)
The formation bonuses don't look particularly appealing but actual pictures would help.
The Scouting vehicles could be cool, if it wasn't a massive points sink.
As for Ob Sec, I know Codex: SM get it, don't think DA do (they get a bonus to their Overwatch instead, whereas the overall superdetachment gives a further bonus to their overwatch).
StarHunter25 wrote: Wait, unexpected bonus. The demi company and overall command bonus might stack. +2 Initiative and FC seems not awful.
Nope. The same rule cannot apply to one unit more than once. Perhaps the Initiative bonus will. I doubt the Str bonus will. That would be absurd. All Fists would be Str 10.
StarHunter25 wrote: Wait, unexpected bonus. The demi company and overall command bonus might stack. +2 Initiative and FC seems not awful.
Nope. The same rule cannot apply to one unit more than once. Perhaps the Initiative bonus will. I doubt the Str bonus will. That would be absurd. All Fists would be Str 10.
StarHunter25 wrote: Wait, unexpected bonus. The demi company and overall command bonus might stack. +2 Initiative and FC seems not awful.
Nope. The same rule cannot apply to one unit more than once. Perhaps the Initiative bonus will. I doubt the Str bonus will. That would be absurd. All Fists would be Str 10.
Yeah, but doesn't matter to SW, lol.
I'm starting to think BA yet again got gakked on.
Same here. I am hoping scans will start to pop up soon. Traitor's Hate showed up a week ago from tomorrow, so I suspect we will see the same thing with BA.
StarHunter25 wrote: Wait, unexpected bonus. The demi company and overall command bonus might stack. +2 Initiative and FC seems not awful.
Nope. The same rule cannot apply to one unit more than once. Perhaps the Initiative bonus will. I doubt the Str bonus will. That would be absurd. All Fists would be Str 10.
Yeah, but doesn't matter to SW, lol.
I'm starting to think BA yet again got gakked on.
Same here. I am hoping scans will start to pop up soon. Traitor's Hate showed up a week ago from tomorrow, so I suspect we will see the same thing with BA.
If you ask me, it's amazing how CSM actually got something over an IoM faction xD
- Assault squad receive the same entry as vanilla : no JP, buy either the jumpack or the transport or leave them on foot. Evicerator available - Devastator : same thing, they have acces to cherubin and grav cannon. - vindi and WW can be fielded as squadron with the same bonus - same thing for turbo boos bonus for speeders - access to domain from the new disciplines
Then the news
First a DC chaplain allow to reroll the roll to wound for him and its uni when charging except in a disorderd charge
Then the Baal : Fieldable in squadron and may re roll 1 to W when played in squadrons of 3
I have no access to relics except the TH from Kraen wich becomes available to any BA character
Then you have 2 detachment or rather "super formations" "gladius" ... whatever
The first is a standard one the second is more Death company
Gladius like detachment
bonus - re roll of warlord trait - l+1I when charging - zealot if any squad come below 50% … And... That's all ! No free transport if 2 half company are played...
The formations
Core :
Demi Companie
As a vanilla one except you can swap the command squad for a furioso Special rules Reroll of the warlord trait and +1I when charging and ... That's all !!!! NO OBJECTIVE SECURED And it's the same bonus as the whole formation... This is THE dark point IMO…
archangels demi companie
1 termi captain 2 furioso 4 units amongst termis assault termi vanguard sternguards special rules : Stubborn Roll for reserve at Turn 1 Re roll scatter and roll only 1d6 Warlord trait re roll
HQ :
Leaders of the Angelic Host : 1 HQ 0-1 comman squad 0-1 Storm Raven no special rules
Golden Host Dante or Sanguinor 2-5 sanguinary guards units Special rules : No reserve roll you choose the turn they arrive and everybody arrive in DS They can charge the turn they DS but count as disordered charge
Chapter ancients 3-5 units of Dreads Dreads Furioso Dreads Archi special rules 1time per battle, you can choose to sacrify the movement phase of any dread to either make a free shoot or a free movement of contact and resolve CC A. You can then proceed normally to shoot or charge
Auxiliaries :
Archangels orbital intervention force 3 termi squads of any sort Special rules : MUST be kept in DS reserve one single reserve roll The termi may eithershoot twice (not necessarly at the same target) OR charge the turn they DS but this will count as disordered charge
10th company Ambush Force 3-5 units of scouts or scout bikes Restrictions : bikes must have mines Special rules : As long as it doesn't move a unit gain +1 cover (shrouded?) Precision shot first turn
Death Company Strike Force 1 DC chaplain 3 DC squads 0-3 DC dreads Special rules Models within 12" of the chaplain gain +1A
Lucifer Armoured strike force 1 techmarine 3-5 units of preds or Baal 1-3 units of LR of any sort Special Rules Scouts Overloaded engines free
Storm Raven Squadron 2-4 Storm Raven Special Rules : One time per battle, during your movement phase, declare you target an enemy unit. All the SR within 72" of the target and with a LoS must shoo all their remaining stormstrike missiles on the target. This doesn't count toward the number of weapons usable and the SR may use their weapons during the shooting phase as normal.
Rapid Assault Force 1-3 units Assault squads bike squads attack bike squads speeder squadrons Special Rules : none it's a "blank formation" usable only in the super detachment
Fire Support Force 1-3 units devastator WW Vindi Special rules : none it's a "blank formation" usable only in the super detachment
And then Death Company Gladius
Bonus : Re roll traits +1I when charging expect if disordered charge After Deploying the unit, it may make a 6"move. This is NOT a scout move
Core
Death Company Strike Force as described
HQ
Death Company Command 1-3 choices amongst Astorath, Lemartes or chapelain CdlM
Aux
Archangels Orbital Intervention force as described
10th company support as described
Lucifer Armoured squadron as described
Storm Raven squadron as described
Rapid Assault Force as descibed
I expected the Golden Host to be what it was, given the fluff. Quite good to be fair and solves the lack of defense against AP2, at least for one turn. Sucks that you don't get the +1 I though.
Overall...it's pretty decent. Nothing absurdly good or bad and while it's too late for me to enjoy having stopped playing, I sincerely hope that remaining BA players get some fun/love out of this.
I suggest SM and DA players make the most out of their Gladius/Lion Blades, since the free transports seems to be going away. Good for balance I guess, but screws over everyone who went out and bought 10 Rhinos.
Edited as I hadn't realized how big the post was.
Edit number 4 as I stumbled across some French photos:
Spoiler:
One of the best things is that Command choices are 1-5 and a Sanguinary Priest is one of those choices...
One of the worst things I can see is disordered charge everywhere. Just nullify the chapter tactics why don't you xD
Automatically Appended Next Post: For anyone that doesn't know much French, that entire Death Company detachment can make a 6" movement after deploying (this is not a Scout move). Damn, they're so thirsty!
Thanks for the pics! So would it be fair to say this Detachment is strictly better than Baal Strike Force Detachment, just because it lets us now field potentially a lot more Elites?
Lack of Obsec stings. Lack of free transports is...a good thing if they end up getting rid of them for other armies but leaves them at a disadvantage as is.
I do like the Sanguinary, and Terminator formations even though they're disordered charges on deepstrike. I'm thinking the Terminator formation would be best with 2 melee squads and 1 shooty squad so you can soften the target and hopefully nullify the lack of bonus charge attacks.
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: Lack of Obsec stings. Lack of free transports is...a good thing if they end up getting rid of them for other armies but leaves them at a disadvantage as is.
I do like the Sanguinary, and Terminator formations even though they're disordered charges on deepstrike. I'm thinking the Terminator formation would be best with 2 melee squads and 1 shooty squad so you can soften the target and hopefully nullify the lack of bonus charge attacks.
Probably hence the box comes with 2 squads of Assault termies and 1 squad of reg termies.
Heck, it's lets you field an entire army of Death Company that move 18" first turn, with Grav Cannons to support them (spam Auxillary Devastators) and the Golden Host to tie up troublesome units.
It does make the Baal Strike Force redundant, but I think you'll be good
In case anyone asks, there was no news on relics from the source. They were apparently leaked a while back on this thread.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should mention that I don't know if Assault Troops are allowed to become Troops in a CAD. But at least you keep your meltaguns and stuff.
Frozocrone wrote: Heck, it's lets you field an entire army of Death Company that move 18" first turn, with Grav Cannons to support them (spam Auxillary Devastators) and the Golden Host to tie up troublesome units.
It does make the Baal Strike Force redundant, but I think you'll be good
In case anyone asks, there was no news on relics from the source. They were apparently leaked a while back on this thread.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should mention that I don't know if Assault Troops are allowed to become Troops in a CAD. But at least you keep your meltaguns and stuff.
Assault Troops as Troops would be amazing. Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy with the pictured Detachment, my main critique of BSF was the lack of elite slots
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: Lack of Obsec stings. Lack of free transports is...a good thing if they end up getting rid of them for other armies but leaves them at a disadvantage as is.
I do like the Sanguinary, and Terminator formations even though they're disordered charges on deepstrike. I'm thinking the Terminator formation would be best with 2 melee squads and 1 shooty squad so you can soften the target and hopefully nullify the lack of bonus charge attacks.
Probably hence the box comes with 2 squads of Assault termies and 1 squad of reg termies.
True, even though the formation is apparently 3 squads of any kind. An all shooty formation could be mean, 60 storm bolter shots and 12 cyclone snapshots has potential.
So it looks like you can do 0-3(maybe 5 which is even better!) Command Choices per the French photos. Which means I am doing a Golden Host and a Leaders of the Angelic Host x2 for some Sanguinary Priests. A BDC with minimum Troops because the Archangels is stupidly high for points (still doable though). And then I will add an Archangels Orbital Intervention Force. I will probably bottleneck on points, but should be alright.
EDIT: The album has all of the formation pictures. I will try to decipher them.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
Does anyone know if the vanguard vets datasheet was updated? currently blood angels VV pay 15 points for power weapons vs 5 points for the codex:SM version.
BeeCee wrote: Does anyone know if the vanguard vets datasheet was updated? currently blood angels VV pay 15 points for power weapons vs 5 points for the codex:SM version.
It doesn't appear so. So, unless the new BA Wargear sheet (which hasn't been revealed) did an adjustment to the costs of Melee Weapons, they still pay 10 points more than anyone else.
From the looks of it, no Assault Marines Troops. The Forces of the Blood Angels image only says to use the new Datasheet. The new Datasheet makes no mention of an ability to be used as Troops. Seriously lame.
Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.
diepotato47 wrote: Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.
It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.
Yes. In fact I believe the Detachment bonus is better than the Core Formation bonus (Detachment gives Waaagh! every turn including the first while the Core Formation gives Waaagh! every turn except the first).
diepotato47 wrote: Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.
It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.
Since troop choices are supposed to be core of army and core of space marines(yes even blood angels) are tactical marines and scouts...
Assault marines fluff wise SHOULDN'T be troop. They aren't what form mainstay of blood angels.
And if anyone needs comfort after not recieving free transports, remember Shield of Baal gave us a formation with combi-weapons on a Sternguard Squad and free a Lightning Claw or Power Weapon on two Vanguard Squads, with a Stormraven. That's far more useful than a few free Rhinos
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yes, it is entirely true that Tactical Marines are the core of Blood Angels. They follow the codex with soem adjustments to suit their flaw (Death Company) and traditions (Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests) not to spam Assault Marines
diepotato47 wrote: Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.
It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.
Since troop choices are supposed to be core of army and core of space marines(yes even blood angels) are tactical marines and scouts...
Assault marines fluff wise SHOULDN'T be troop. They aren't what form mainstay of blood angels.
That isn't how the fluff describes it at all. Rather than becoming Devastators once becoming a Battle Brother, Blood Angels are immediately made Assault Marines. They also maintain proficiency in Jump Packs for their entire career. Even their ground troops have a tendency to favor close combat and special weaponry over heavy weapons. This is why Assault Marines as Troops makes sense. They have nearly all the options of Tactical Marines, and without their Jump Packs, are functionally quite similar to Tactical Marines, just with the more Blood Angels-appropriate BP and CCW loadout.
The death company formation is actually pretty cool. Supported by the orbital intervention and scouting predators it's actually pretty goodl as well, and fluffy. I wish it could be backed up by devestators tho. Unless there is a way and I've missed it? No free transports sucks as it just means if you want to play battle company style there is no reason not to have a gladius strike force backed up by whatever BA formation you want to play,
diepotato47 wrote: Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.
It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.
Since troop choices are supposed to be core of army and core of space marines(yes even blood angels) are tactical marines and scouts...
Assault marines fluff wise SHOULDN'T be troop. They aren't what form mainstay of blood angels.
That isn't how the fluff describes it at all. Rather than becoming Devastators once becoming a Battle Brother, Blood Angels are immediately made Assault Marines. They also maintain proficiency in Jump Packs for their entire career. Even their ground troops have a tendency to favor close combat and special weaponry over heavy weapons. This is why Assault Marines as Troops makes sense. They have nearly all the options of Tactical Marines, and without their Jump Packs, are functionally quite similar to Tactical Marines, just with the more Blood Angels-appropriate BP and CCW loadout.
Look at the chapter composition. Battle companies(that do most of the job). 6 tac squad, 2 assault squad, 2 dev squads
My be so cool to play a PC army, rather than an NPC army like Chaos. *sigh*
casvalremdeikun wrote: That isn't how the fluff describes it at all. Rather than becoming Devastators once becoming a Battle Brother, Blood Angels are immediately made Assault Marines. They also maintain proficiency in Jump Packs for their entire career. Even their ground troops have a tendency to favor close combat and special weaponry over heavy weapons. This is why Assault Marines as Troops makes sense. They have nearly all the options of Tactical Marines, and without their Jump Packs, are functionally quite similar to Tactical Marines, just with the more Blood Angels-appropriate BP and CCW loadout.
Doesn't the fluff also describe BA's as a Codex Chapter? That alone is why Assault Marines shouldn't be troops.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
No, that is what a badly translated document 'suggests' our bonus is. You have no idea what it is, and claiming otherwise makes you a liar.
As I said, when the Space Marine and Dark Angel codex were released the community did a complete double take. It's been agreed that the super formations are damaging to the games balance, and that 40k players do not want MORE of them in their game.
Except for Chaos and Blood Angels. Chaos and Blood Angels need them, says the community.
GW tries to appeal to the community with less than powerful super formations.
You all complain anyways. You're literally hopeless.
It just never seems to end. Remember, until you see actual pictures, in a language you comprehend, it isn't fact, and the sky isn't falling.
Also, the Standard battle company for a Blood Angel force is 6 Tactical Squads, and 2 each of the Devastator and Assault squads. While Blood Angels do have a talent for close combat, they aren't pure berzerkers, and still understand the benefit of ranged warfare. Hence, they fight just like other codex marines, just a little harder in Close Quarters.
Doesn't the fluff also describe BA's as a Codex Chapter? That alone is why Assault Marines shouldn't be troops.
So then why are bikes allowed for Troops in C:SM? Are bike squads drawn from Tactical Squads or Assault Marine Squads (hint hint: in the BDC, what can bikes be swapped for?). It is literally doing the same thing, only with a different Assault Marine(not the datasheet but the designation) profile.
Strange that most of the other marine armies that follow the 'codex' seem to find enough bikes to field them as troops but everyone gets annoyed when blood angels players just want to use their sub standard assault marines in the same fashion :/
Bikes are allowed for White Scars only, as for the fluff reason, who knows, I don't keep up with their fluff. And to counter your point, by your logic if Assault Marines were Troops for Blood Angels, Bikes and Land Speeders would be Troops too.
It's not the way the army works and it's as simple as that, if you want to run an all Assault Marine army, there's unbound lists, or the Flesh Tearers Strike Force
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
No, that is what a badly translated document 'suggests' our bonus is. You have no idea what it is, and claiming otherwise makes you a liar.
It isn't badly translated. I have images of the formations. The bonuses for the BDC and the Angel's Blade are literally the same thing. I don't need to be able to speak French to realize the same phrase is being used twice. The bonuses for Angels Blade are La Vertu de l'Ange, La Soif Rouge, and Les Fils de Sanguinius. The Battle Demi-Company's bonuses are La Vertu de l'Ange and La Soif Rouge, with unchanged wording.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thud wrote: Anyone know if terminators are still more expensive than the vanilla ones?
They are. Their Datasheet did not change.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
diepotato47 wrote: Bikes are allowed for White Scars only, as for the fluff reason, who knows, I don't keep up with their fluff. And to counter your point, by your logic if Assault Marines were Troops for Blood Angels, Bikes and Land Speeders would be Troops too.
It's not the way the army works and it's as simple as that, if you want to run an all Assault Marine army, there's unbound lists, or the Flesh Tearers Strike Force
They aren't White Scars only, it is every single C:SM Chapter.
It hasn't been that way for two editions. Bikes are even easier to field than they ever have. All you need is a Bike HQ of any type, and you can use Bikes as Troops. I don't think it would be too game breaking to allow Assault Marines as Troops. Assault Marines are inferior to Bikes in every way.
diepotato47 wrote: And if anyone needs comfort after not recieving free transports, remember Shield of Baal gave us a formation with combi-weapons on a Sternguard Squad and free a Lightning Claw or Power Weapon on two Vanguard Squads, with a Stormraven. That's far more useful than a few free Rhinos
It's also a huge point sink to buy those units (without going minimum size making them too easy to kill), which limits any kind of support they get. That makes this choice fragile and crumbles to pieces once it takes damage.
Basically if you want to field a fast blood Angels army, field a red white scars army. The problem here isn't that the formations are bad (apart from the battle company one - that sucks by any comparison) it's that they aren't 300 free points. Which is actually a good thing! Just not until the 300 free points go away
diepotato47 wrote: So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.
No, this is just giving a similar option to Blood Angels in exchange for not being able to field a buttload of Bikes. BA don't get Bike Troops, they would have Assault Marine Troops. C:SM would keep Bike Troops. 1:1 exchange.
diepotato47 wrote: So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.
No, this is just giving a similar option to Blood Angels in exchange for not being able to field a buttload of Bikes. BA don't get Bike Troops, they would have Assault Marine Troops. C:SM would keep Bike Troops. 1:1 exchange.
That would solve nothing. Blood Angels would still be bad, and you would still complain about it. An actual more efficient fix would be giving the entire army better rules representation regarding their unique heritage.
We're not getting either, so get over it and maybe try looking at the positive side of things. Thats what Sanguinous would do. XD
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Brutishcard wrote: Basically if you want to field a fast blood Angels army, field a red white scars army. The problem here isn't that the formations are bad (apart from the battle company one - that sucks by any comparison) it's that they aren't 300 free points. Which is actually a good thing! Just not until the 300 free points go away
diepotato47 wrote: So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.
No, this is just giving a similar option to Blood Angels in exchange for not being able to field a buttload of Bikes. BA don't get Bike Troops, they would have Assault Marine Troops. C:SM would keep Bike Troops. 1:1 exchange.
That would solve nothing. Blood Angels would still be bad, and you would still complain about it. An actual more efficient fix would be giving the entire army better rules representation regarding their unique heritage.
We're not getting either, so get over it and maybe try looking at the positive side of things. Thats what Sanguinous would do. XD
Why would I not be happy if I could play with a buttload of Assault Marines. I like their kit and I like their options. Being able to run 2x Meltaguns (maybe even with a Combi on the Sergeant) in a Troops unit would be great. I don't need to have OP options to be happy. I already can run a Gladius with my Crimson Fists.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.
That was my thought too, but it likely includes the restriction on the actual formation page, and was left out on the Angel's Blade Detachment sheet for simplicity
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.
You are correct, it is Zealot. As for the Captain and Chaplain dictating what you can choose, the Command Squad entry says (si le Captain est selectionne) after it, which roughly translates to "If a Captain is selected" and the Furioso Dreadnought entry says (se le Chaplain est selectionne) which roughly translates to "If a Chaplain is selected". Quite literally, the BA BDC is worse than any other BDC.
Have the rules leaked on the Terminator Captain? Is it the same as before?
I also spotted the Archangels Demi-Company does not allow a Chaplain to be taken
diepotato47 wrote: Have the rules leaked on the Terminator Captain? Is it the same as before?
I also spotted the Archangels Demi-Company does not allow a Chaplain to be taken
The Terminator Captain's Data Sheet is its own thing. They have Terminator Armor, a Storm Bolter, a Thunder Hammer, and an Iron Halo. For Special Rules they have Furious Charge, ATSKNF, and Independent Character. They can choose Terminator Weapons, Special Equipment, and Relics of Baal. For...some points (the sheet is cut off), they can trade their Thunder Hammer for the Hammer of Baal. Basically, this lets you build Captain Karlaen without the Counterattack or set Warlord Trait.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.
You are correct, it is Zealot. As for the Captain and Chaplain dictating what you can choose, the Command Squad entry says (si le Captain est selectionne) after it, which roughly translates to "If a Captain is selected" and the Furioso Dreadnought entry says (se le Chaplain est selectionne) which roughly translates to "If a Chaplain is selected". Quite literally, the BA BDC is worse than any other BDC.
Ah, I think you're seeing a pic here that I haven't seen yet. I have seen the pics for the overall detachments and not any individual ones for the individual formations.
diepotato47 wrote: So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?
The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.
The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.
And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.
I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.
I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.
You are correct, it is Zealot. As for the Captain and Chaplain dictating what you can choose, the Command Squad entry says (si le Captain est selectionne) after it, which roughly translates to "If a Captain is selected" and the Furioso Dreadnought entry says (se le Chaplain est selectionne) which roughly translates to "If a Chaplain is selected". Quite literally, the BA BDC is worse than any other BDC.
Ah, I think you're seeing a pic here that I haven't seen yet. I have seen the pics for the overall detachments and not any individual ones for the individual formations.
Someone posted some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.
diepotato47 wrote: Bikes as troops choices, I should say. Otherwise they are Fast Attack
And every single Codex: Space Marines chapter can use Bikes as Troops, not just White Scars. Read the frickin' book.
So because there's mistake in another codex mistake should be made in another codex too? Rather than fix the original mistake...
I think what he is saying is that they didn't "fix it" so it's admittance really that it's pretty intentional for SM's to be able to take bikes as troops.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
reds8n wrote: If we can stay a bit closer to the topic please.
Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
The more I think about it, the more that the Death Company Detachment is the way forward.
Chaplain gives other DC members within range of him +1A. Relics wise he has access to two great ones. 1) An item which grants him and his unit counter attack and 2) An AP3 Crozius which allows re-rolls of FNP of 1's for his unit.
Option 1 would mean 5 attacks each DC member for that 12" bubble even when they are being charged rather than charging, and 5 attacks each with re-rolls to hit for zealot (not sure about wounds yet) is the sweet spot and option 2 would mean a slightly more survivable Death Company unit making it's way up the table, helped along with a 6" redeployment move forward too.
In saying that the DS and charge formations for The Golden Host and The Orbital Intervention Force is going to be a Godsend against Tau and Shooty Eldar. Not saying we would smash them now but at least you'll actually get to kill some things rather than just removing models off the table every turn without any assault taking place.
some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.
So you can field these formation without being forced to take the demi-company?
commander dante wrote: Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.
commander dante wrote: Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.
some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.
So you can field these formation without being forced to take the demi-company?
Yes. And there is still a different (incredibly expensive) formation that can be taken instead of the Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company. The Archangels Battle Demi-Company, which is a Terminator Captain, 2 Furioso Dreadnoughts, and 3 chosen from Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard Vets, or Sternguard Vets.
My plan is to run the Golden Host with Dante, an Orbital Intervention Force (probably 3x Tactical Terminators), and a CAD with two Sanguinary Priests, 2x Scout Squads, and 2x Assault Marine Squads (Combi-Melta, 2x Meltagun). I actually can make room for a 2x Gravgun Bike Squad too. Not too shabby. Though I won't have any Anti-Air, but that isn't a big deal.
some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.
So you can field these formation without being forced to take the demi-company?
Yes. And there is still a different (incredibly expensive) formation that can be taken instead of the Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company. The Archangels Battle Demi-Company, which is a Terminator Captain, 2 Furioso Dreadnoughts, and 3 chosen from Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard Vets, or Sternguard Vets.
Are you able send me a PM with any links to any photos? I've only seen the detachment photos and not any formations or datasheets? If not, don't worry, I only thought I would ask in case you did have any.
I think one of the best builds is going to be the Death Company detachment with the Lucifier Armoured Task Force formation.
Free 18" movement for AV14/13 spam, before the game even starts, is no joke. Suddenly Baal Predators are good again. BA Vindicators effectively have a 54" threat range.
Throw a couple of TH/SS Terminators in the Land Raider and possibly some Grav Devastators with the points left over and you're probably laughing.
Frozocrone wrote: I think one of the best builds is going to be the Death Company detachment with the Lucifier Armoured Task Force formation.
Free 18" movement for AV14/13 spam, before the game even starts, is no joke. Suddenly Baal Predators are good again. BA Vindicators effectively have a 54" threat range.
Throw a couple of TH/SS Terminators in the Land Raider and possibly some Grav Devastators with the points left over and you're probably laughing.
You can't take Vindicators in the Lucifer, just Baal Predators and Predators. The fact the Baal Predators already come with Overcharged Engines makes the formation bonus of getting them free less of a bonus too.
I meant threat range 6" pre game move, 12" fast movement, 24" demolisher cannon range.
DC Warlord Traits:
1 one time per battle, you can chose to roll a die (can be any die : roll to hit, a save, a die of a LD test etc)
2 the character and the DC units within 12" have fleet when they charge
3 the warlord and its unit has rampage
4 the warlord gains fnp, if he alreaday has it add +1 to the fnp roll
5 the warlord gains rage
6 the warlord and all the DC units within 12" gains hatred (chaos deamons) and hatred (CSM)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pretty much only 2 stands out, possibly 4 too with the DC Relics.
Warhams-77 wrote: A vehicle Scout move is actually 12" - not nearer than 18" if it can be seen though.
It is 12", I'm talking about Scout in conjunction with the Death Company detachment benefit (that gives a free 6" movement before the game starts, this is not a Scout move in itself).
Warhams-77 wrote: A vehicle Scout move is actually 12" - not nearer than 18" if it can be seen though.
Still pretty cool for the Baal Predator in either of its forms. Scout definitely makes a Flamestorm Baal Predator more worthwhile. Especially if taken in the Death Company detachment. Getting a free 6" move (not sure if it can actually take advantage of it though), in addition to 12" Scout move, and then Fast movement, equals a Baal Predator that can go basically anywhere.
Looking at the sprue on the "new" assault squad box I fail to see any meltaguns. Can we still get them on assault marines or it's just eviserators like the rest ?
humanas wrote: Looking at the sprue on the "new" assault squad box I fail to see any meltaguns. Can we still get them on assault marines or it's just eviserators like the rest ?
Yes, they can still get Meltaguns for 10 pts on two Marines. All of the BA Options are still there, they just added in the Evicerator and changed how they purchase Jump Packs and Transports.
This is going to make arming my Assault Squad difficult. I plan on still putting Meltaguns on the squad, but man oh man do I like the way the Eviscerators look.
Both options are equally fun, but I foresee more Death Company in my immediate future.
Red__Thirst wrote: This is going to make arming my Assault Squad difficult. I plan on still putting Meltaguns on the squad, but man oh man do I like the way the Eviscerators look.
Both options are equally fun, but I foresee more Death Company in my immediate future.
Thanks for the info. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
See, nothing about any of this makes me want more Assault Marines than I already have. I need more Terminators (why oh why did they not make a BA Tactical Terminator kit?), Sanguinary Guard, and Scouts.
commander dante wrote: Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.
LITERALLY FLUFF BREAKING
By rights, there should be millions of marines per chapter, not 1000. Galactic scale and all that. 1000 is a rounding error.
I'm currently building a demi-company (eventually a full battle company, 5th Battle Company to be precise) and am going to be making two assault squads.
That being said, a couple of boxes of Sanguinary Guard to roll with my Dante might be in the offing in the near future as well. I LOVE those models, and having them able to land and charge on the same turn alongside my Dante miniature seems quite fun I must admit.
I've just got to figure out how I want to arm them. Maybe one squad with mostly swords and a power fist mixed in, the second squad kitted out with mostly axes and a power fist as well perhaps. Equal parts of both might be the way to go. We'll see I suppose.
commander dante wrote: Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.
LITERALLY FLUFF BREAKING
By rights, there should be millions of marines per chapter, not 1000. Galactic scale and all that. 1000 is a rounding error.
Hey Martel,
What's your thoughts on this? Will the assaulting DS formations help you out in your meta?
Based on the last three rulebooks released (Codex: Deathwatch, Traitor's Hate, and Angel's Blade), it seems like we're seeing a shift in expected power level. All three contain formations that I would consider strong, but not overpowered. Unfortunately, this means they are still going to be below the top tier of power (and Chaos and BA still have issue with unit pricing as well as a few others), but I'm okay with that. This is where the power level should be.
EnTyme wrote: Based on the last three rulebooks released (Codex: Deathwatch, Traitor's Hate, and Angel's Blade), it seems like we're seeing a shift in expected power level. All three contain formations that I would consider strong, but not overpowered. Unfortunately, this means they are still going to be below the top tier of power (and Chaos and BA still have issue with unit pricing as well as a few others), but I'm okay with that. This is where the power level should be.
This is where we were when the last Blood Angel codex came out and then it was sacked. The same thing is going to happen and other factions will pull away even further from BA's when they get their updates.
EnTyme wrote: Based on the last three rulebooks released (Codex: Deathwatch, Traitor's Hate, and Angel's Blade), it seems like we're seeing a shift in expected power level. All three contain formations that I would consider strong, but not overpowered. Unfortunately, this means they are still going to be below the top tier of power (and Chaos and BA still have issue with unit pricing as well as a few others), but I'm okay with that. This is where the power level should be.
I think that's a common occurrence. They decide a new direction that they want to go towards (in this case, Formations and MFDs, plus making Gargantuans/Superheavies baseline), and then try it. The first few have the capacity to be crazy over the top because there is no internal testing, but then they tone it down later.
If there was a more iterative release/patching system, it would be fine. But as it is, those first few continue being over the top, which sucks if you're not one of the first (in this case, Necron/Eldar/Space Marines).
Hoping that they go the Age of Sigmar route of stats, where they put the rules for units up online for free and can change them, but the books are there for fluff and Formations/Artifacts.
commander dante wrote: Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.
LITERALLY FLUFF BREAKING
By rights, there should be millions of marines per chapter, not 1000. Galactic scale and all that. 1000 is a rounding error.
Hey Martel,
What's your thoughts on this? Will the assaulting DS formations help you out in your meta?
In many matchups, but then there are Tau, Demons, and SW. I'll never survive to assault the Tau, and I want to stay away from demons and SW. Plus, I consider reserves to be the devil in general. I'll know more when I have the book in my hands.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red__Thirst wrote: I'm currently building a demi-company (eventually a full battle company, 5th Battle Company to be precise) and am going to be making two assault squads.
That being said, a couple of boxes of Sanguinary Guard to roll with my Dante might be in the offing in the near future as well. I LOVE those models, and having them able to land and charge on the same turn alongside my Dante miniature seems quite fun I must admit.
I've just got to figure out how I want to arm them. Maybe one squad with mostly swords and a power fist mixed in, the second squad kitted out with mostly axes and a power fist as well perhaps. Equal parts of both might be the way to go. We'll see I suppose.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
I've never understood why people put Dante with SG.
commander dante wrote: Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*
Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army
I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.
LITERALLY FLUFF BREAKING
By rights, there should be millions of marines per chapter, not 1000. Galactic scale and all that. 1000 is a rounding error.
Hey Martel,
What's your thoughts on this? Will the assaulting DS formations help you out in your meta?
In many matchups, but then there are Tau, Demons, and SW. I'll never survive to assault the Tau, and I want to stay away from demons and SW. Plus, I consider reserves to be the devil in general. I'll know more when I have the book in my hands.
As a Tau and Shooty Eldar player myself these formations would really scare me. I could pretty say goodbye to my Crisis, Broadside or Riptide suits. From what I know some of these formations are turn 1. With Danta the SG are not scattering anywhere and Ithink the termies only scatter D6" as well. Like I said elsewhere, at least it makes the game more entertaining rather than just being shot to pieces from the other side of the board.
Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Martel732 wrote: Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Give it a try. I don't put interceptor on everything cause I need something to carry the anti-air system lol. Even if I put interceptor on both my Broadside squads I think I would still be in trouble. As for the Riptide it's plenty killable. Riptides are rubbish in combat. Only WS2, so against WS5 it's 5's to hit back with only 2 attacks.
Edit: Thinking about it a bit more. Even if I put my units together within 12" for supporting fire all the ds chargers need to do is multicharge within that bubble. They would be wrapped up in combat for pretty much the rest of the game. So a unit of 3 Broadsides with interceptor will hit with 75% of their shots due to them being twin linked. So, 12 HYMP shots, would result in 8.75 wounds and 12 SMS shots would be another 8 wounds on average. So 16.75 saves. On 2+ armour then we talking about 2-3 failed saves before charging with the added bonus that the Broadsides can now not fire at anything next turn.
Martel732 wrote: Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Give it a try. I don't put interceptor on everything cause I need something to carry the anti-air system lol. Even if I put interceptor on both my Broadside squads I think I would still be in trouble. As for the Riptide it's plenty killable. Riptides are rubbish in combat. Only WS2, so against WS5 it's 5's to hit back with only 2 attacks.
Pretty much. Interceptor is all well and good, but it can only be used once a turn, and only then if the unit lives to use it again. All the Interceptor in the world won't stop a pile of Hammernators Deepstriking right next to you and repainting the battlefield with your insides.
I think the biggest threat to our new Blood Angels is going to come from other Marines (with their freebie units and Invisible, teleporting, 2+ FNP Deathstars), and from Eldar (with their D weapons on everything, and super-fast Objective grabbing units). Tau have always relied to having time to carefully, and with much coordination, shoot dangerous assault units off of the board before they get too close. Same thing for Necron; I always annihilated them, once I got into combat with them, but they usually managed to kill enough of my units on the way in, that I didn't have enough to stop the army as a whole. Suddenly, they can't reliably do that well enough to ensure a victory.
Martel732 wrote: Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Give it a try. I don't put interceptor on everything cause I need something to carry the anti-air system lol. Even if I put interceptor on both my Broadside squads I think I would still be in trouble. As for the Riptide it's plenty killable. Riptides are rubbish in combat. Only WS2, so against WS5 it's 5's to hit back with only 2 attacks.
Pretty much. Interceptor is all well and good, but it can only be used once a turn, and only then if the unit lives to use it again. All the Interceptor in the world won't stop a pile of Hammernators Deepstriking right next to you and repainting the battlefield with your insides.
I think the biggest threat to our new Blood Angels is going to come from other Marines (with their freebie units and Invisible, teleporting, 2+ FNP Deathstars), and from Eldar (with their D weapons on everything, and super-fast Objective grabbing units). Tau have always relied to having time to carefully, and with much coordination, shoot dangerous assault units off of the board before they get too close. Same thing for Necron; I always annihilated them, once I got into combat with them, but they usually managed to kill enough of my units on the way in, that I didn't have enough to stop the army as a whole. Suddenly, they can't reliably do that well enough to ensure a victory.
My Eldar* force is pretty much Jet Bikes at the moment too. So a number of them will not be able to avoid the assault from ds. The Wraith D Flamers though do pose a problem.
Martel732 wrote: Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Give it a try. I don't put interceptor on everything cause I need something to carry the anti-air system lol. Even if I put interceptor on both my Broadside squads I think I would still be in trouble. As for the Riptide it's plenty killable. Riptides are rubbish in combat. Only WS2, so against WS5 it's 5's to hit back with only 2 attacks.
Edit: Thinking about it a bit more. Even if I put my units together within 12" for supporting fire all the ds chargers need to do is multicharge within that bubble. They would be wrapped up in combat for pretty much the rest of the game. So a unit of 3 Broadsides with interceptor will hit with 75% of their shots due to them being twin linked. So, 12 HYMP shots, would result in 8.75 wounds and 12 SMS shots would be another 8 wounds on average. So 16.75 saves. On 2+ armour then we talking about 2-3 failed saves before charging with the added bonus that the Broadsides can now not fire at anything next turn.
Why do you bother with anti-air? Most flyers suck.
Riptides are actually quite good in CC. They get 3 swings, not 2. All swings are S6 AP 2. Most marines are WS 4, not 5. Obviously, Riptides can't beat assault TH/SS termiantors in CC unless they get very lucky on their saves. Although, with the nova 3++, they have a shot.
Martel732 wrote: Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Give it a try. I don't put interceptor on everything cause I need something to carry the anti-air system lol. Even if I put interceptor on both my Broadside squads I think I would still be in trouble. As for the Riptide it's plenty killable. Riptides are rubbish in combat. Only WS2, so against WS5 it's 5's to hit back with only 2 attacks.
Edit: Thinking about it a bit more. Even if I put my units together within 12" for supporting fire all the ds chargers need to do is multicharge within that bubble. They would be wrapped up in combat for pretty much the rest of the game. So a unit of 3 Broadsides with interceptor will hit with 75% of their shots due to them being twin linked. So, 12 HYMP shots, would result in 8.75 wounds and 12 SMS shots would be another 8 wounds on average. So 16.75 saves. On 2+ armour then we talking about 2-3 failed saves before charging with the added bonus that the Broadsides can now not fire at anything next turn.
Why do you bother with anti-air? Most flyers suck.
Riptides are actually quite good in CC. They get 3 swings, not 2. All swings are S6 AP 2. Most marines are WS 4, not 5. Obviously, Riptides can't beat assault TH/SS termiantors in CC unless they get very lucky on their saves. Although, with the nova 3++, they have a shot.
You take the anti-air so you don't need a flyer yourself. Otherwise you're going to find it very difficult to bring any planes down even with those TLHYMP. Flyers can deliver a payload of assault troops. If your Tau opponents don't take any anti-flyer systems then I suggest you wreck them with Storm Ravens full of assault troops and dreadnoughts.
Yes, you're right, they do get 3 attacks each. Misremembering my codex entries. Doesn't make a big difference. They can hold combat for a while but they very rarely dish out any damage in a combat themselves and it depends on nova charging for the 3++ invulnerable save in order to stay around. No offence, but a 10 man assault squad can keep this thing locked up for a long time and take it out it's shooting game.
3 attacks per turn, even if you hit on 4's then it's 1.5 hits a turn and between 1-2 guys a turn dead if they don't get any saves then even a 5 man squad should tie it up for the best of 3 turns.
So I have to throw away another squad after the Riptide has melted at least one in shooting. Seems like that exchange favors the Tau. Immortality has its perks, I suppose.
" Otherwise you're going to find it very difficult to bring any planes down even with those TLHYMP"
Don't bring them down. Just ignore them.
I don't use Stormravens in general because they are overcosted garbage, and fail hard vs flying MCs. You are also looking at a turn 3 assault at the soonest. By the time said assault units start to matter, the rest of my units are likely tabled by the Tau.
Tau players aren't using anti-air because there's nothing in the air they care about enough to do so.
Have to agree with martel, I haven't used a flier in over a year now and even then it's just the single storm talon. Fliers don't actually impact the missions in any meaningful way.
As for the Tau match up, it's still down hill for the marines. The drone net has interceptor, that means pinpoint AP2 pie plates hitting those clustered up SG. THEN they get top overwatch with support fire, and most Tau are taking riptide wings meaning they'll only fail that 3++ Nova 1 in 9 times lol. Though I will admit most take the heavy burst canon which will help some.
But to be fair, who cares about the cheesiest crap in the meta. 40k is a terrible game as soon as you take it too competitively. There always has been some broken combo since the game was first introduced. I think that Golden host would be a nightmare against a lot of other armies. But again, 40k is a rock paper scissor game. Face dark angled from a lions blade with maxed grav and you won't even make the assault lol.
Martel732 wrote: Tau don't care because they have interceptor on everything. There is nothing the BA can get that will scare Tau because Riptide is immortal to the weapons BA have at their disposal.
Rumour has it Devastators get Grav Cannons, so there is that.
Got my hands on the new book today. Pure death company list looks fluffy and fun. That 6" extra move after deployment could prove valuable in small matches. This death company strike force gets stormravens as dedicated transports aswell. I've painted my only one already in DC colours.
Only T1 deepstriker is the old (exterminatus) archangel's demi-company, only now with T1 DS rule.. but yeah, dante and two SG T2+ anytime you want could be groovy. Orbital intervention force got that earlier mentioned orbital intervention rule which gives extra shot to any target when arriving from DS and assault termies can make an disordered charge the turn they arrive.
Having hard time figuring out what is exactly needed to form an lost brotherhood, it can't be that big as mentioned in the flavor text.
Biggest minus besides no ob sec for demi company is the fact that assault marines lost their free pod.. Just finished painting my drop podding 4 melta shot assault marines.. damn.
Martel732 wrote: So I have to throw away another squad after the Riptide has melted at least one in shooting. Seems like that exchange favors the Tau. Immortality has its perks, I suppose.
Or you charge one squad in to tie it up. The riptide may miss with it's interceptor weapon. It's not like it's getting any markerlight bonuses on interceptor. If you really think that the Riptide is the Tau players best unit then he isn't going to appreciate losing it in such an exchange. Trust me, when the enemy get close, the Riptide is the first thing I sacrifice into combat because I know it can hold up a unit while I try and take care or the rest of the forces. If you don't think the Tau player thinks it's his best unit then charge something else instead.
Don't bring them down. Just ignore them.
And take the charge of the unit inside it. Also you then mention monsterous creatures. Another reason to take AA support for Tau. Perhaps it's just your meta but a flyer is more than just turn 3 charge, you also get a lot of shooting from turn 2 onwards as well. But anyway I disgress, so players in your meta don't take flyers. Noted. Probably because of the Death of the Skies rules being lame to be honest. A lot of players down at my store stopped using flyers after that.
I don't use Stormravens in general because they are overcosted garbage, and fail hard vs flying MCs.
A only way a Daemon, Chaos or Tyranid army works now is with those flying mc's. So I guess that's why I take the anti-air.
You are also looking at a turn 3 assault at the soonest.
This is true but if your opponent doesn't take any AA then milk it. Take the formations of Storm Ravens and put the majority of your force in that. There was already a formation in Shield of Baal that allowed you to bring them on turn one with a re-roll to reserves.
By the time said assault units start to matter, the rest of my units are likely tabled by the Tau.
The thing that a Tau player hates is a whole army in his face from the start and it looks like we are getting this along with the ability to assault with some units too. If you're saying this isn't good enough then I can only assume that the Tau players down at your store must be cheating against you or something. Yes, Tau are good but they need distance to start with. Without it they just won't survive.
Tau players aren't using anti-air because there's nothing in the air they care about enough to do so.
I doubt they are plugging every upgrade into interceptor though. And if they do then charge their non-intercepting units so when they do shoot at you with their interceptor weapons then they can't fire them in their next shooting phase. You then have a Tau army who quite literally can't shoot during their own phase.
If you're telling me that you can't beat Tau even when you get assault them from turn 1 then there isn't anything I can say.
"The thing that a Tau player hates is a whole army in his face from the start "
Why? So many juicy targets. And you can kill them all with double/triple tapping or whatever nonsense Tau can do. Being close to Tau is extremely hazardous.
"If you're telling me that you can't beat Tau even when you get assault them from turn 1 then there isn't anything I can say."
I can say something. On top of the crazy amounts of interceptor, the Tau can turn overwatch into yet another shooting phase. If I dropped in 4 units with turn 1 charge, two might get into combat. You would then shoot those two units to death after the CC ended. Assaulting with mortal units is so damn easy to beat in 7th.
" If you really think that the Riptide is the Tau players best unit "
Best unit is hard to quantify. It's their most durable/pt and has a weapon that is custom made to make almost every marine unit in the game pointless. Does that make it the best or just the most obnoxious for me?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xirax wrote: Got my hands on the new book today. Pure death company list looks fluffy and fun. That 6" extra move after deployment could prove valueable in small matches. This death company strike force gets stormravens as dedicated transports aswell. I've painted my only one already in DC colours.
Only T1 deepstriker is the old (exterminatus) archangel's strike force.. but yeah, dante and two SG T2+ anytime you want could be groovy. Having hard time figuring out what is excatly needed to form an lost brotherhood, it can't be that big as mentioned in the flavor text.
Biggest minus besides no ob sec for demi company is the fact that assault marines lost their free pod.. Just finished painting my drop podding 4 melta shot assault marines.. damn.
Martel732 wrote: Why? So many juicy targets. And you can kill them all with double/triple tapping or whatever nonsense Tau can do.
Double/Tripple tapping what? Can I get some specifics? I really am starting to think you're getting cheated here. The only thing that I can think off the top of my head that can double tap is the Riptide secondary weapons i.e. Plasma/SMS/Fusion. Nothing else I can think of. If we're talking about the Y'Varna suit then that can double tap and has to forgo it's next shooting phase entirely, so it can take out one unit and then miss a turn of shooting. Not to mention it costs a lot more than the normal Riptide so a two 5 man squad to one of those is an acceptable exchange.
I can say something. On top of the crazy amounts of interceptor, the Tau can turn overwatch into yet another shooting phase. If I dropped in 4 units with turn 1 charge, two might get into combat. You would then shoot those two units to death after the CC ended. Assaulting with mortal units is so damn easy to beat in 7th.
I think something is amiss here. Interceptor and BS2 overwatch are two separate systems and 2 separate upgrades. Can I just ask what your opponents are taking? The number of systems each suit gets is as follows:
Crisis: 3 systems but weapons are included in this. So 2 individual weapons or one twin linked weapon take up 2 systems.
Riptide: Can 2 systems in addition to it's weapon, but one of these is normally the FNP system.
Broadsides: Can only take one system in addition to their weapons.
Martel732 wrote: Why? So many juicy targets. And you can kill them all with double/triple tapping or whatever nonsense Tau can do.
Double/Tripple tapping what? Can I get some specifics? I really am starting to think you're getting cheated here. The only thing that I can think off the top of my head that can double tap is the Riptide secondary weapons i.e. Plasma/SMS/Fusion. Nothing else I can think of. If we're talking about the Y'Varna suit then that can double tap and has to forgo it's next shooting phase entirely, so it can take out one unit and then miss a turn of shooting. Not to mention it costs a lot more than the normal Riptide so a two 5 man squad to one of those is an acceptable exchange.
Maybe you should try reading your Codex?
Invocation of the Elements
Storm of Fire: Fire an extra shot with pulse weapons when target is within half range.
That's from Ethereals.
You also have the Fireblade who has this rule:
Volley Fire: If this model, and his unit, do not move in the Movement phase, their pulse rifles and pulse carbines fire an additional shot in the Shooting phase.
So that is how you can have units firing 3-4 shots per turn. 4 shots on units with a Fireblade that did not move, 3 shots otherwise if there's an Ethereal doing Storm of Fire.
I can say something. On top of the crazy amounts of interceptor, the Tau can turn overwatch into yet another shooting phase. If I dropped in 4 units with turn 1 charge, two might get into combat. You would then shoot those two units to death after the CC ended. Assaulting with mortal units is so damn easy to beat in 7th.
I think something is amiss here. Interceptor and BS2 overwatch are two separate systems and 2 separate upgrades. Can I just ask what your opponents are taking? The number of systems each suit gets is as follows:
Crisis: 3 systems but weapons are included in this. So 2 individual weapons or one twin linked weapon take up 2 systems.
Riptide: Can 2 systems in addition to it's weapon, but one of these is normally the FNP system.
Broadsides: Can only take one system in addition to their weapons.
So I'm guess, I'm asking what you normally see?
I'm going to guess that it likely involves a Drone Net, which has Interceptor as part of its Formation rules, packed full of Marker Drones to beef up everything else.
EnTyme wrote:Based on the last three rulebooks released (Codex: Deathwatch, Traitor's Hate, and Angel's Blade), it seems like we're seeing a shift in expected power level. All three contain formations that I would consider strong, but not overpowered. Unfortunately, this means they are still going to be below the top tier of power (and Chaos and BA still have issue with unit pricing as well as a few others), but I'm okay with that. This is where the power level should be.
So does this mean were are in the phase of "everything is too powerful so from now on we are going to weaken everything to be more fair" until of course when it's Space Marine time again for a codex release and therefore the power level goes up again? This is what the third time now that Chaos got sucked into the tail end phased of "balancing" everything and then GW hears the whaling and the cries of Space Marine players how everything is boring and bland, and the cycle ramps upwards and become unbalanced again.
I am worried for Tyranids now. They are in the same cycle of Chaos. If Chaos can't have good toys, that would mean Orks and Tyranids will not have good toys as well.
Martel732 wrote: Ethereals can make firewarriors fire extra times. That's what I'm referring to.
Sure but Fire Warriors don't get any systems at all. I don't use Ethereals really. I prefer the Cadre Fireblade instead and even then I usually go for a Commander.
I'm talking about using the interceptor marker lights to buff up all the interceptor fire and the resulting overwatch.
I take this is from the expansions. I don't have them since I just bought the new codex and was told there isn't any point in getting the expansions. So the Drone Network gets both Interceptor and fires at BS2?
In regards to the tau stuff, as someone said, it's rock paper siccors. If you want to beat them, you take either a grav battle company or a Death Star, and it becomes super easy. There is no point even pretending that a fun fluffy BA list will even come close. If you're losing to a double riptide wing, or even singleriptide wing / double storm surge army then that person is playing a very different game to you. You don't rock up at the running track with moon boots to try your luck against usain bolt and then complain when he beats you.
Martel732 wrote: Why? So many juicy targets. And you can kill them all with double/triple tapping or whatever nonsense Tau can do.
Double/Tripple tapping what? Can I get some specifics? I really am starting to think you're getting cheated here. The only thing that I can think off the top of my head that can double tap is the Riptide secondary weapons i.e. Plasma/SMS/Fusion. Nothing else I can think of. If we're talking about the Y'Varna suit then that can double tap and has to forgo it's next shooting phase entirely, so it can take out one unit and then miss a turn of shooting. Not to mention it costs a lot more than the normal Riptide so a two 5 man squad to one of those is an acceptable exchange.
Maybe you should try reading your Codex?
In context of EWO then Fire Warriors don't count.
Invocation of the Elements
Storm of Fire: Fire an extra shot with pulse weapons when target is within half range.
That's from Ethereals.
You also have the Fireblade who has this rule:
Volley Fire: If this model, and his unit, do not move in the Movement phase, their pulse rifles and pulse carbines fire an additional shot in the Shooting phase.
So that is how you can have units firing 3-4 shots per turn. 4 shots on units with a Fireblade that did not move, 3 shots otherwise if there's an Ethereal doing Storm of Fire.
Yes it's nice, but I have already mathhmmered this and the Crisis suits get more bang for their buck and are more survivable.
I can say something. On top of the crazy amounts of interceptor, the Tau can turn overwatch into yet another shooting phase. If I dropped in 4 units with turn 1 charge, two might get into combat. You would then shoot those two units to death after the CC ended. Assaulting with mortal units is so damn easy to beat in 7th.
I think something is amiss here. Interceptor and BS2 overwatch are two separate systems and 2 separate upgrades. Can I just ask what your opponents are taking? The number of systems each suit gets is as follows:
Crisis: 3 systems but weapons are included in this. So 2 individual weapons or one twin linked weapon take up 2 systems.
Riptide: Can 2 systems in addition to it's weapon, but one of these is normally the FNP system.
Broadsides: Can only take one system in addition to their weapons.
So I'm guess, I'm asking what you normally see?
I'm going to guess that it likely involves a Drone Net, which has Interceptor as part of its Formation rules, packed full of Marker Drones to beef up everything else.
Indeed. It's not in the normal codex so must be an expansion. SO it fires up and one unit and hopefully provides some markerlights for another unit to overwatch at a higher BS. However I think Martel is underestimating how much Tau players are going to hate this ds and assault stuff from BA players.
Martel732 wrote: Why? So many juicy targets. And you can kill them all with double/triple tapping or whatever nonsense Tau can do.
Double/Tripple tapping what? Can I get some specifics? I really am starting to think you're getting cheated here. The only thing that I can think off the top of my head that can double tap is the Riptide secondary weapons i.e. Plasma/SMS/Fusion. Nothing else I can think of. If we're talking about the Y'Varna suit then that can double tap and has to forgo it's next shooting phase entirely, so it can take out one unit and then miss a turn of shooting. Not to mention it costs a lot more than the normal Riptide so a two 5 man squad to one of those is an acceptable exchange.
Maybe you should try reading your Codex?
In context of EWO then Fire Warriors don't count.
Not everything is discussing EWO. You discussed how Tau do not like armies deployed right in their faces...yet, clearly, that can be mitigated pretty heavily.
Invocation of the Elements
Storm of Fire: Fire an extra shot with pulse weapons when target is within half range.
That's from Ethereals.
You also have the Fireblade who has this rule:
Volley Fire: If this model, and his unit, do not move in the Movement phase, their pulse rifles and pulse carbines fire an additional shot in the Shooting phase.
So that is how you can have units firing 3-4 shots per turn. 4 shots on units with a Fireblade that did not move, 3 shots otherwise if there's an Ethereal doing Storm of Fire.
Yes it's nice, but I have already mathhmmered this and the Crisis suits get more bang for their buck and are more survivable.
Heh...
Sure, Crisis Suits "get more bang for their buck"...but Crisis Suits also cost you more and have a limited way of being taken.
I can say something. On top of the crazy amounts of interceptor, the Tau can turn overwatch into yet another shooting phase. If I dropped in 4 units with turn 1 charge, two might get into combat. You would then shoot those two units to death after the CC ended. Assaulting with mortal units is so damn easy to beat in 7th.
I think something is amiss here. Interceptor and BS2 overwatch are two separate systems and 2 separate upgrades. Can I just ask what your opponents are taking? The number of systems each suit gets is as follows:
Crisis: 3 systems but weapons are included in this. So 2 individual weapons or one twin linked weapon take up 2 systems.
Riptide: Can 2 systems in addition to it's weapon, but one of these is normally the FNP system.
Broadsides: Can only take one system in addition to their weapons.
So I'm guess, I'm asking what you normally see?
I'm going to guess that it likely involves a Drone Net, which has Interceptor as part of its Formation rules, packed full of Marker Drones to beef up everything else.
Indeed. It's not in the normal codex so must be an expansion. SO it fires up and one unit and hopefully provides some markerlights for another unit to overwatch at a higher BS.
The Drone Net VX1-0(from Mont'ka) is four or more units of Drones, all of the Drone units gaining the following USRs:
Interceptor, Jink, Outflank, Precision Shots, and Split Fire.
Whoever told you that Mont'ka or the Farsight Enclaves book were "not worth it" was a goon.
However I think Martel is underestimating how much Tau players are going to hate this ds and assault stuff from BA players.
Considering how Tau players laughed and shrugged off the arguably better DS and Assault stuff from the Raven Guard supplement material in Kauyon?
I think they'll manage just fine against Blood Angels.
Xirax wrote: Got my hands on the new book today. Pure death company list looks fluffy and fun. That 6" extra move after deployment could prove valuable in small matches. This death company strike force gets stormravens as dedicated transports aswell. I've painted my only one already in DC colours.
Only T1 deepstriker is the old (exterminatus) archangel's demi-company, only now with T1 DS rule.. but yeah, dante and two SG T2+ anytime you want could be groovy. Orbital intervention force got that earlier mentioned orbital intervention rule which gives extra shot to any target when arriving from DS and assault termies can make an disordered charge the turn they arrive.
Having hard time figuring out what is exactly needed to form an lost brotherhood, it can't be that big as mentioned in the flavor text.
Biggest minus besides no ob sec for demi company is the fact that assault marines lost their free pod.. Just finished painting my drop podding 4 melta shot assault marines.. damn.
I am hoping I am missing something in the translation, but is there any reason to take a Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company in an Angel's Blade? Or are the formation benefits literally the same as the Detachment benefits?
Kanluwen wrote: Not everything is discussing EWO. You discussed how Tau do not like armies deployed right in their faces...yet, clearly, that can be mitigated pretty heavily.
Ok true, but an army in their face is still what they hate the most. When I have lost games with my Tau it's because of an army right in my face on mass.
Sure, Crisis Suits "get more bang for their buck"...but Crisis Suits also cost you more and have a limited way of being taken.
What I calculated was cost per shot. Although the Fire Warriors still had a lower cost per shot it wasn't by much when compared to Crisis Suits with Burst Cannons. Also I found that Adding a Cadre Fireblade increased the cost per shot of the Fire Warriors which was interesting.
So here is what I found.
Fire Warriors with SMS Turret - 4.58 pts per shot.
Cadre Fireblade with Fire Warriors & SMS Turret - 4.72 pts per shot.
Crisis Suits with Burst Cannons - 5.66 pts per shot.
The only difference in profile to the Pulse Rifles and the Burst Cannons are the range, which I admit can make a difference but not if the enemy is right in your face flaming your Fire Warriors with AP4 templates.
The Drone Net VX1-0 is four or more units of Drones, all of them gaining the following USRs: Interceptor, Jink, Outflank, Precision Shots, and Split Fire.
OK, so I can see quite a lot of rules here. Interceptor and split fire being the key ones in relation to our discussion.
Considering how Tau players laughed and shrugged off the arguably better DS and Assault stuff from the Raven Guard supplement material in Kauyon?
Were they assaulting after deep strike?
I think they'll manage just fine against Blood Angels.
Then just refuse to play Tau and point to this as the reason why. Surely they must be beaten somehow otherwise they would win just about every game and thus tournaments (discounting those tournaments that make heavy rule modifications for certain armies). I know Tau shooting is horrendously good but I don't exactly wipe everyone off the table with only one turn of shooting. I guess I must not have as broken a list as every other Tau player.
They do not Overwatch at full BS, but they don't need to.
Split fire allows them to shoot at two units in this case. Are we accounting for a Commander here with Drone Controller or are we assuming BS2 for their normal shots?
They get beaten by lists with invisibility access and units that resist being dakkaed down. Like TWC with storm shields or Necron Wraiths. I'm told Imperial Knights are good against Tau, but I'm not sure.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am hoping I am missing something in the translation, but is there any reason to take a Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company in an Angel's Blade? Or are the formation benefits literally the same as the Detachment benefits?
The only bonus I can see is the Zealot at the 50% rule. Not a lot I know.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote: They get beaten by lists with invisibility access and units that resist being dakkaed down. Like TWC with storm shields or Necron Wraiths. I'm told Imperial Knights are good against Tau, but I'm not sure.
Invisibility Units - Yes I can see why this is.
TWC - Interesting. I've not played against much Space Wolves with my Tau so I can't really comment but a lot of Tau shooting is based on Mass fire power rather than low AP (exception is riptide), or at least in my case it is since I pack HYMP Broadsides. The inclusion of a SS to make a 3+ unit into a 3++ one instead isn't really making me see how much more survivable against Tau that would make them.
Necron Wraiths - Yes, a ridiculous number of shots needed to take down Wraiths granted. Especially in a Decurion. Those Wraiths however still can do this while making their way up the board from their own table edge when Tau have time to plan for them.
Imperial Knights - High Armour is difficult for Tau. We don't get an awful lot of really high strength weapons. We get a ton at S5 to S7 but from S8 onwards we have fusions, Ion Accelerator and railgun variants. HYMP shots would need 6's to glance a Knight on the front and then of course the Knight would get an invulnerable save. I have to include a Hammerhead, Riptide (Ion Accelerator) and a Crisis Team with Fusions in my list just to make sure I can deal with high AV.
That last part leads me to my next idea for you. The Lucifer Armoured Task Force. The Land Raiders get scout and overcharged engines and look like they get that 6" re-deploy move which doesn't count as a scout move as well. So no use of interceptor against that.
Kanluwen wrote: Not everything is discussing EWO. You discussed how Tau do not like armies deployed right in their faces...yet, clearly, that can be mitigated pretty heavily.
Ok true, but an army in their face is still what they hate the most. When I have lost games with my Tau it's because of an army right in my face on mass.
If you're losing games with your Tau to an army "right in your face", stop running lots of Crisis Suits and start bringing some Breachers/Strike Teams and bring along some Broadsides with HYMPs/SMS.
Sure, Crisis Suits "get more bang for their buck"...but Crisis Suits also cost you more and have a limited way of being taken.
What I calculated was cost per shot. Although the Fire Warriors still had a lower cost per shot it wasn't by much when compared to Crisis Suits with Burst Cannons. Also I found that Adding a Cadre Fireblade increased the cost per shot of the Fire Warriors which was interesting.
So here is what I found.
Fire Warriors with SMS Turret - 4.58 pts per shot.
Cadre Fireblade with Fire Warriors & SMS Turret - 4.72 pts per shot.
Crisis Suits with Burst Cannons - 5.66 pts per shot.
The only difference in profile to the Pulse Rifles and the Burst Cannons are the range, which I admit can make a difference but not if the enemy is right in your face flaming your Fire Warriors with AP4 templates.
And what happens when you start talking about Breachers?
Considering how Tau players laughed and shrugged off the arguably better DS and Assault stuff from the Raven Guard supplement material in Kauyon?
Were they assaulting after deep strike?
Um, yes?
Turn one, auto-arriving Vanguard Veteran Squads with the ability to ignore Scatter by picking an arrival point between infiltrated Scout units.
Turn one, Outflanking Tactical/Devastator Squads with the ability to Ignore Cover.
Turn one, Deep Striking Assault and Vanguard Squads that have the ability to disengage from a combat and re-Deep Strike.
Basically there was a lot of Deep Strike going on with the Raven Guard stuff. Not all of it was able to Assault the turn it arrived, but not all of it needed to.
I think they'll manage just fine against Blood Angels.
Then just refuse to play Tau and point to this as the reason why. Surely they must be beaten somehow otherwise they would win just about every game and thus tournaments (discounting those tournaments that make heavy rule modifications for certain armies). I know Tau shooting is horrendously good but I don't exactly wipe everyone off the table with only one turn of shooting. I guess I must not have as broken a list as every other Tau player.
Or maybe you shouldn't be putting Burst Cannons on your Crisis Suits and pretending to be an authority on the faction?
They do not Overwatch at full BS, but they don't need to.
Split fire allows them to shoot at two units in this case. Are we accounting for a Commander here with Drone Controller or are we assuming BS2 for their normal shots?
If you had Mont'ka, you would know that the Drone Network VX1-0 also gives all Drones on the battlefield +1 BS during the Shooting phase as long as at least two units from the Formation are on the battlefield.
So we're talking BS3 Drones as normal, BS5 for those Drones with a Commander with DC.
Help me out here. In the Angel's blade there's a section "wargear of baal" where it introduces rules for armorium cherub and grav amp and has a phrase " all other items of wargear are described full either in C:BA or in rulebook of 40k."
I got two year old BA codex and rulebook from deathstorm. I'm lacking stat lines for grav cannon and eviscerator.
Where am I supposed to find these?
I found new stat lines for dreads (more attacks) and scouts (+1 WS/BS) from that rules errata realeased a month back or so.
Is there a new rulebook or some other errata I'm missing OR does this really mean that I'm supposed to buy the new revised Red thirst edition for blood angels codex to get those two puny lines. WTF?
Battle demi company is total crap. Who wants regular dreadnought etc with average point cost of 900 points of 8 units mostly not really that good and no objective secured. That zealot rule comes only available to unit after it's reduces to less than 50% of orginal squad size.
Xirax wrote: Help me out here. In the Angel's blade there's a section "wargear of baal" where it introduces rules for armorium cherub and grav amp and has a phrase " all other items of wargear are described full either in C:BA or in rulebook of 40k."
I got two year old BA codex and rulebook from deathstorm. I'm lacking stat lines for grav cannon and eviscerator.
Where am I supposed to find these?
I found new stat lines for dreads (more attacks) and scouts (+1 WS/BS) from that rules errata realeased a month back or so.
Is there a new rulebook or some other errata I'm missing OR does this really mean that I'm supposed to buy the new revised Red thirst edition for blood angels codex to get those two puny lines. WTF?
Battle demi company is total crap. Who wants regular dreadnought etc with average point cost of 900 points of 8 units mostly not really that good and no objective secured. That zealot rule comes only available to unit after it's reduces to less than 50% of orginal squad size.
Grav Cannons and Eviscerators are in the Rules.
Yeah, the BDC and Angel's Blade in general are crap. Better to just take the good formations (Orbital Intervention Force, Lucifer, and Golden Host) separate from it to avoid the BDC tax.
Kanluwen wrote: If you're losing games with your Tau to an army "right in your face", stop running lots of Crisis Suits and start bringing some Breachers/Strike Teams and bring along some Broadsides with HYMPs/SMS.
I'm not losing lots of games to armies in my face. I just stated that when I do lose it's under those circumstances. I already pack 2 units of Broadsides in my list with HYMP and SMS and I also do use Fire Warriors as my two troops choices. I also take a unit of Crisis suits with fusion blasters, a riptide with IA and fusion blaster, two units of pathfinders (Still need to get Tetra's) and a Hammerhead with a Heavy Railgun.
And what happens when you start talking about Breachers?
What profile are we using? We have 3 different profile up till 15" with the AP3 one being only 5" range. Even if we disreagard range we are talking 2 shots normal at 15" which is the same as a pulse rifles so calculations show same pts per shot.
Um, yes?
I was genuinely asking because I'm not familiar with Raven Guard rules.
Turn one, auto-arriving Vanguard Veteran Squads with the ability to ignore Scatter by picking an arrival point between infiltrated Scout units.
Turn one, Outflanking Tactical/Devastator Squads with the ability to Ignore Cover.
Turn one, Deep Striking Assault and Vanguard Squads that have the ability to disengage from a combat and re-Deep Strike.
Basically there was a lot of Deep Strike going on with the Raven Guard stuff. Not all of it was able to Assault the turn it arrived, but not all of it needed to.
Now replace those units with Termies and Sanguinary Guard and I'm literally soiling myself. Better Armour saves and more units in your face. From what I understand The Termies can come on from turn 1 if they want and the SG get to choose literally when to come on.
Or maybe you shouldn't be putting Burst Cannons on your Crisis Suits and pretending to be an authority on the faction?
Just because I did a calculation on it that doesn't mean it's the list I run with. A poor assumption from you to say the least. I actually have quite a large extensive Tau force and what I usually play I listed above.
If you had Mont'ka, you would know that the Drone Network VX1-0 also gives all Drones on the battlefield +1 BS during the Shooting phase as long as at least two units from the Formation are on the battlefield.
So we're talking BS3 Drones as normal, BS5 for those Drones with a Commander with DC.
Well it's not my fault that other Tau players I talked to thought it was useless buying the thing if you had the main codex. They literally said to me if I was buying the new codex then I wouldn't need the expansions since the expansion mainly covered the new units i.e. Ghostkeel and Stormsurge.
Xirax wrote: Wooden eye patch removed. Thanks. First time index didn't help
Understanding what excatly is the requirements for lost brotherhood is still unknown to me. Will try to figure it out while UCL viewing.
You need a 1-3 death company command choice and the death company strike force (1 DC chaplain, 3 units of DC and 1-3 DC dreadnought). This is the minimal requirement.
Just realised myself. The flavor text was frightning point wise. Need to buy the command choice... Aswell as decided whether field orbital intervention which I own or buy one more SG for angels hosts. Nothing denies my taking angels host with lost brotherhood? Only hosts wont get the benefit from army spevial rule which they couldn't benefit anyway?
Xirax wrote: Just realised myself. The flavor text was frightning point wise. Need to buy the command choice... Aswell as decided whether field orbital intervention which I own or buy one more SG for angels hosts. Nothing denies my taking angels host with lost brotherhood? Only hosts wont get the benefit from army spevial rule which they couldn't benefit anyway?
Sadly you can't take angels hosts if you choose this detachment.
"..Note that you can also include any of the Formations presented in this section as part of Battle-forged army." "A lost Brotherhood strike force is a special type of a Detachment that can be included in any Battle-forged army..." Although units cannot normally belong to more than one Detachment, units from a Formation that is part of a Lost Brotherhood Strike Force are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated Command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a Formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a lost brotherhood strike force, that entire lost brotherdhood strike force is your primary detachment."
You could always take the Golden Host as a separate Detachment from your Lost Brotherhood. It won't benefit from any of the Lost Brotherhood'a Detachment benefits, but you can still take it. I plan on running the Golden Host paired with a CAD and an Orbital Intervention Force, all outside any overarching Detachment like the Angel's Blade.
I'm just excited to field a mostly jump pack army again. Thinking something along these lines
Company of the lost
-DC chaplain with relic crozius
-10 DC with packs and 2 fists
-2x5 DC with packs and one fist each
-DC dread with talons in a pod
Rapid assault force
-2x10 ASM with 2 melta and vet sgt with power sword
-5x bikes with triple grav
Maybe fill the rest with the scout formation (three cheap squads)
I think you can fit all that into a 1750 or 1850 list. Between combat squads and the three scout units you put 12 units on the table turn one. And all your DC and assault marines get a free 6in move, so turn 1 assaults are not out of the question.
So Lucifer Armoured Task Force in a DC Detachment.
Set-up 12"
Re-deploy 6"
Scout Move (12" for fast vehicles I believe)
Normal Move of 12"
And fire weapons. Flamestorm Cannons looking good at this point.
Set-up 12"
Re-deploy 6"
Scout Move (12" for fast vehicles I believe)
Normal Move of 12"
And fire weapons. Flamestorm Cannons looking good at this point.
It seems pretty awesome. Baal Predators in either form can shoot practically anything on the board.
Set-up 12"
Re-deploy 6"
Scout Move (12" for fast vehicles I believe)
Normal Move of 12"
And fire weapons. Flamestorm Cannons looking good at this point.
Heck yeah, that is actually pretty good, also if you can have las plas Razorbacks for the death company? So you can threaten things that aren't hordes. Putting death company or assualt termies in the land raiders isn't bad either.
Set-up 12"
Re-deploy 6"
Scout Move (12" for fast vehicles I believe)
Normal Move of 12"
And fire weapons. Flamestorm Cannons looking good at this point.
Heck yeah, that is actually pretty good, also if you can have las plas Razorbacks for the death company? So you can threaten things that aren't hordes. Putting death company or assualt termies in the land raiders isn't bad either.
Razorbacks are the only tank that Death Company can take, so yes you could do that. Cruising around with a bunch of Assault Cannon or Las Plas Razorbacks is a possibility. Too bad they can't get Scout, but the 6" move in addition to Fast is pretty good.
.
. Y'all have a good day
6" pre game move, 12" fast movement, 24" demolisher cannon range.
