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Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/25 18:25:59


Post by: killerpenguin


Hi, I know there is a CSM Traitor Legions Tactica thread, but i wanted to create this thread as a spesific thread about DG. What do you think are the best units, Artifacts and Psycik powers do you think are the best for DG and how would you combine it all to create a competitive DG army?

As we all know Death guard got a huge buff in traitor legions:

- Veterans of the long war for free
- Feel no pain re-rolling ones
- Fearless
- Relentless

(but their Initiative is reduced by 1, except typhus and plague marines).

- Shrouded over 18"
- Re-rolling warlord trait


For example:
I think a large biker death star could benefit alot from getting ghost strom and Soulswitch from the ectomancy dicipline. One unit basicly teleports 18" wherever you want and can charge afterwards. If that doesnt work out, the primaris power warpshock is also a good assult witchfire.

So you get 7(because of Nurgle) man unit of bikers, add 2 meltas, a PF and a combi melta on the champ.

The Sorcerer (lvl 3) gets a bike, familiar, force axe and the plague skull of Gothia (8", S:1, Large blast, poisoned 2+, one use only)

You add a lord to the unit, with a bike, sigil, lightning claw and a PF.

At a cost of 597 pts.

And there you have it, if all goes to plan, you are up in the face of the oposition firing meltas and charging turn one!






Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/25 19:10:38


Post by: darthryan


Dont over look weapon virus this power rocks especialy if you are about to charge the unit your opponent has to make the difficult call of risking wounds on his own guys vs the chance to wound your guys.
Fleshy abundance is also great your opponent finaly manages to wound one of your characters and blip back to full wounds this will really make your tough as nails characters much harder to shift.

Poxwalker hive is amazing take a full unit of cultists and hit them with this turn 2 (so they can run first turn to get closer) and they are a nightmare to kill it takes a lot of fire power to take out this unit in 1 turn and if even one is left they start coming back.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/25 19:56:03


Post by: killerpenguin


darthryan wrote:


Poxwalker hive is amazing take a full unit of cultists and hit them with this turn 2 (so they can run first turn to get closer) and they are a nightmare to kill it takes a lot of fire power to take out this unit in 1 turn and if even one is left they start coming back.


I have considered the poxwalker hive, but i cant really see a lost and the damned auxiliary be effective. It costs too many points for what i does.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/26 14:29:16


Post by: darthryan


Just take a cad or a helcult problem solved


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/27 13:06:08


Post by: zerosignal


Current list under development: (c. 1850)

Chaos Lord (Bike, PF, LC)
Sorceror (Bike, ML2)

3 terminators (combi-melta)

3x Bikes (2 melta)
3x Bikes (2 melta)

5 marines, PG, PS on champion, rhino
5 marines, PG, PS on champion
5 marines, Melta, PF on champion, rhino

5 havocs, 4 autocannons

heldrake terror pack

cult of destruction - 3 oblits, oblit, oblit, warpsmith

I might make one of the bike squads more punching-orientated (trying to get into CC with the Lord and Sorceror attached), or combine both squads. Unsure which is best yet.

C&C welcome! I need all the advice I can get!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/27 16:27:28


Post by: killerpenguin


zerosignal wrote:
C&C welcome! I need all the advice I can get!


Pretty simialar to the list i run. I would probably drop PS on the CSM champs, they have -1 Initiative and my csm rarely see close combat.

I'm playing with the idea to get a deepstriking mayhem pack (3 hellbrutes with special rules: DS, It will not die.) 300 points isnt bad if they can blow up a imperial knight.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/27 16:55:46


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


zerosignal wrote:
Current list under development: (c. 1850)

Chaos Lord (Bike, PF, LC)
Sorceror (Bike, ML2)

3 terminators (combi-melta)

3x Bikes (2 melta)
3x Bikes (2 melta)

5 marines, PG, PS on champion, rhino
5 marines, PG, PS on champion
5 marines, Melta, PF on champion, rhino

5 havocs, 4 autocannons

heldrake terror pack

cult of destruction - 3 oblits, oblit, oblit, warpsmith

I might make one of the bike squads more punching-orientated (trying to get into CC with the Lord and Sorceror attached), or combine both squads. Unsure which is best yet.

C&C welcome! I need all the advice I can get!

I encourage Combi-Plasma with Termicide.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/27 19:33:17


Post by: buddha


What do people think about raptors in a vectorium? They are fast and durable which death guard really lack. I know they often lose out to bikers but with the new rules do you think they can compete?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 05:11:31


Post by: SirSweetroll


I'm currently running a Biker Deathstar, with 2 DG psykers and a Night Lords Psyker each level 3 with spell familiars and one with blight granades, NL gets SoC and they roll with a 5 man DG biker unit, two plasmas.

I ran a similar list with two sorcerers and a Daemon Prince, but I felt like he didn't get enough use, so I added a third sorcerer and buffed up the Renegades detachment I bring.

DG Psykers go for Gift of Contagion and Curse of the Leper, then fish around for Invisibility, though Psychic Shriek is a good swap. NL sorcerer rocks a force sword and rolls everything on Biomancy, hoping to get iron arm, warp speed, and/or enfeeble. That gives me 3 powers that lower enemy toughness and/or strength, making my T6 bikers a real nightmare in combat.

Plasmas are better than melta IMO because they aren't going after vehicles, I have my renegades for that

Being completely honest though, Invisibility isn't really fun, what other Psychic Disciplines would you guys roll on?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 buddha wrote:
What do people think about raptors in a vectorium? They are fast and durable which death guard really lack. I know they often lose out to bikers but with the new rules do you think they can compete?


They are pretty good. The added survivability means they can lock up things until something meaner shows up, and relentless means rapid fire plasma charges


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 07:10:21


Post by: killerpenguin


What do you guys think about the mayhem pack (3 hellbrutes with special rules: DS, It will not die.) I was planning on getting them as an addition Tommy my biker DG warband


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 07:43:18


Post by: koooaei


 killerpenguin wrote:
What do you guys think about the mayhem pack (3 hellbrutes with special rules: DS, It will not die.) I was planning on getting them as an addition Tommy my biker DG warband


Extremely unreliable.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 07:58:54


Post by: SirSweetroll


 koooaei wrote:
 killerpenguin wrote:
What do you guys think about the mayhem pack (3 hellbrutes with special rules: DS, It will not die.) I was planning on getting them as an addition Tommy my biker DG warband


Extremely unreliable.


Ive had some fun with them but unreliable for sure. Sadly, they aren't really that good. Best use I had for them was hoping theyd deepstrike late and overwhelm my opponents backfield


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 08:53:04


Post by: koooaei


SirSweetroll wrote:

Best use I had for them was hoping


Summs it up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 09:16:42


Post by: Latro_


Had a lot of fun with a DP, wings, armour, lvl1, pandemic staff
Also the WL traits are quite decent for a DP, 4+fnp, IWD etc

He's quite neat, nurgles rot and his flame attack are nice to try and do a one turn objective clear. Use his other power he gets as needed.

Pretty solid fighter with his attacks being S8 ap2 with poison so re-rolling 1's to wound against most stuff.

ofc have the 2+ jink goodness as normal

 killerpenguin wrote:
What do you guys think about the mayhem pack (3 hellbrutes with special rules: DS, It will not die.) I was planning on getting them as an addition Tommy my biker DG warband


Used them a lot in another army i have, i think one game they were amazing but other than that the 300pts could of probably been better spent (assuming you'll always take MM). You have to get that reserve roll, hope all three scatter as you'd like for the 12" sweet spot then its one shot which you know will always miss . Next turn the IWND is somewhat meh as a canny opponent will just go behind them and strip all the HPs.

Helcult is my fav HB formation 2 units of fearless cultists give the HB a 3+ cover which is quite nice for nurge cultists with a T4


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 13:21:41


Post by: killerpenguin


SirSweetroll wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
 killerpenguin wrote:
What do you guys think about the mayhem pack (3 hellbrutes with special rules: DS, It will not die.) I was planning on getting them as an addition Tommy my biker DG warband


Extremely unreliable.


Ive had some fun with them but unreliable for sure. Sadly, they aren't really that good. Best use I had for them was hoping theyd deepstrike late and overwhelm my opponents backfield


Maybe get a aegis defenceline and a comms relay for your havocs, 3+ cover with cloud of flies and rerolling reserve rolls. That would help if you deepstrike obliterators and for your heldrakes too.

 buddha wrote:
What do people think about raptors in a vectorium? They are fast and durable which death guard really lack. I know they often lose out to bikers but with the new rules do you think they can compete?


They get I:3, that sucks, i like bikes with t:6 alot more than raptors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Latro_ wrote:
Helcult is my fav HB formation 2 units of fearless cultists give the HB a 3+ cover which is quite nice for nurge cultists with a T4
That is quite nice. you could give them poxwalker virus as well. 35 cultists with fnp is gonna be hard to chew through.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 13:41:13


Post by: Latro_


and d3 back a turn

JUMP IN FRONT of the PLAGUE MASTER
EugH flop
I'm back! The plague master is truly holy charrrrge


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/02/28 13:59:37


Post by: killerpenguin


 Latro_ wrote:
and d3 back a turn

JUMP IN FRONT of the PLAGUE MASTER
EugH flop
I'm back! The plague master is truly holy charrrrge

"The Helbrute, for its part, pays little attention to the scurrying flesh-things"


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/13 06:00:22


Post by: plagueknight


So I got a small 1K point tournament /narrative campaign coming can't decide on what to take in the way of daemon engines I am already taking a Nurgle sorcerer, full plasma chosen squad , chaos contemptor with butcher cannons and a lascannon havoc squad. I am mainly footslooging so the maulerfiend would be nice for a fast unit to threaten the enemy but I feel I have enough anti tank being 1K so was wondering if a plague Hulk would be better as I don't have much in the way of anti horde stuff and the plague Hulks rot cannon and rancid vomitr would do wonders against most squads with the ap3
Any suggestions???


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/13 07:29:53


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


The plague hulk is nice and cheap but don't expect it to do wonders. With only BS 2 its blasts are not very reliable. However, it is a very nice distraction carnifex, looking frightening, being a large model and having shrouded + AV 13.

If you are going the FW route anyway and don't use DG formations, rapier weapons would be nice. For cheaper than the hulk you get 18 twin linked heavy bolter shots with T7.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/13 15:41:49


Post by: SirSweetroll


The difference between BS2 and BS4 is pretty negligible when in comes to blasts IMO, this is coming from a R&H player though, so everything is BS2.

I'd second the Rapiers though. I just started using them for R&H and they are great for their price

Correction! R&H rapiers come with the tank gun standard, so I haven't used the heavy bolter version. My fear would be them getting outranged, but with DG, they should have relentless no? How does relentless and artillery work?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/13 18:48:37


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Your Rapier Batteries can't get VotLW. Shame.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/13 20:26:36


Post by: SirSweetroll


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Your Rapier Batteries can't get VotLW. Shame.


Dang, that could have made them pretty good. As of now, I think getting outranged is too much of a risk here.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/13 23:57:34


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


SirSweetroll wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Your Rapier Batteries can't get VotLW. Shame.


Dang, that could have made them pretty good. As of now, I think getting outranged is too much of a risk here.

I mean, 36" is pretty good for a unit that cannot move. I've used the Hades plenty of times before the TL supplement and loved them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 00:34:58


Post by: killerpenguin


What is the best way to take down Guilliman with the units at our disposal?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 03:56:35


Post by: SirSweetroll


Black mace bypasses eternal warrior doesn't it?

If so, two of the nurgle powers reduce toughness (one of which reduces Str as well and while more random is stackable), and then biomancy has enfeeble to reduce toughness further. Black Mace Daemon prince might be able to beat him down then.

Just looked at his stats a little closer... Don't think the DP would stand a chance without rolling IronArm/Warpspeed, and even then it would be rough


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 07:23:27


Post by: Loopstah


Does anyone take FW units? E.g. Sicaran, Spartan, relic preds or Blight drones?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 11:55:12


Post by: killerpenguin


SirSweetroll wrote:
Black mace bypasses eternal warrior doesn't it?

If so, two of the nurgle powers reduce toughness (one of which reduces Str as well and while more random is stackable), and then biomancy has enfeeble to reduce toughness further. Black Mace Daemon prince might be able to beat him down then.

Just looked at his stats a little closer... Don't think the DP would stand a chance without rolling IronArm/Warpspeed, and even then it would be rough


Best idea might just be to stay away from him...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 12:14:17


Post by: zerosignal


Yeah, use your bikes and rhinos to outmanouvre him.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 19:54:52


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Loopstah wrote:
Does anyone take FW units? E.g. Sicaran, Spartan, relic preds or Blight drones?


So far I've used the plague hulk, rapiers and the Dreadnought. Usually FW units are all solid choices, but since they force you to take a CAD they are in a weak spot these days. Also, Traitor legions hasn't done anything for vehicles.
FW should simply put out n FAQ that says: In all formations treat havocs=rapiers, predators= relic predators, helbrutes = all kinds of dreads, heldrake= all kinds of aircraft and so on.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/16 20:14:38


Post by: andysonic1


Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Loopstah wrote:
Does anyone take FW units? E.g. Sicaran, Spartan, relic preds or Blight drones?


So far I've used the plague hulk, rapiers and the Dreadnought. Usually FW units are all solid choices, but since they force you to take a CAD they are in a weak spot these days. Also, Traitor legions hasn't done anything for vehicles.
FW should simply put out n FAQ that says: In all formations treat havocs=rapiers, predators= relic predators, helbrutes = all kinds of dreads, heldrake= all kinds of aircraft and so on.
CSM would shoot up the faction rankings overnight if they gave us easy access to Forgeworld like that. Can you imagine the Heldrake formation with Heltalons? Iron Warriors with Rapiers? Contemptors running around with Cultists or deep striking in units of three? The possibilities this would unleash are endless.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/18 09:34:52


Post by: plagueknight


Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Loopstah wrote:
Does anyone take FW units? E.g. Sicaran, Spartan, relic preds or Blight drones?


So far I've used the plague hulk, rapiers and the Dreadnought. Usually FW units are all solid choices, but since they force you to take a CAD they are in a weak spot these days. Also, Traitor legions hasn't done anything for vehicles.
FW should simply put out n FAQ that says: In all formations treat havocs=rapiers, predators= relic predators, helbrutes = all kinds of dreads, heldrake= all kinds of aircraft and so on.

How do you find the Plague Hulk??? Does it do quite well

Yeah I know what you mean that's why I usually just run the purge detachment most days just so I can squeeze all my FW units in as I usually run Contemptors, laser destroyer vindicators being able to take them in the Vectorium would be cool but doubts it would ever happen as FW are hopeless when it comes to faqing 40k stuff


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/27 16:20:18


Post by: killerpenguin


What would be a cheesy DG list?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/03/31 14:29:01


Post by: zerosignal


Spam a ton of bikes in a vectorium with a flying daemon prince.

perhaps mass obliterators

even lots of MSU tacs and rhinos seems OK.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/01 22:52:53


Post by: killerpenguin


Have tou guys have seen the DG teaser video? We know Mortarion is coming, new PM models, new nurgly cultists and maybe some DG termites. Do anyone know of any other rumours or pics?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/01 23:40:09


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


There aren't even rumors for rules as far as I know. Plague Marines are gonna need something though to differentiate them from their regular counterparts.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/02 01:46:58


Post by: plagueknight


Maybe they'll get a 4+ feel no pain sv ??? It'd be cool if they could all take plasma weapons like how rubrics can take flamers. I wonder if they'll get some sort of heavy weapon plasma cannons and multi meltas would be cool


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/02 13:18:43


Post by: killerpenguin


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There aren't even rumors for rules as far as I know. Plague Marines are gonna need something though to differentiate them from their regular counterparts.


Any idea when it's going to be released? Hov long has it been between the teaser and the release from previous releases?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/02 14:17:44


Post by: Loopstah


 killerpenguin wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There aren't even rumors for rules as far as I know. Plague Marines are gonna need something though to differentiate them from their regular counterparts.


Any idea when it's going to be released? Hov long has it been between the teaser and the release from previous releases?


This is new ground really, GW haven't given advanced teasers like this for decades. Normally things are teased a week before on Pre-order day, this is an unknown advance.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/03 02:23:27


Post by: plagueknight


Warhammer fest is holding seminars/ tutorials on how to paint chaos death guard so they hopefully should be out before then
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/02/eavy-metal-at-warhammer-fest/

What would be a good CAD at 1000pts???? Got a small 1K tournament coming up soon


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/03 11:01:55


Post by: killerpenguin


 plagueknight wrote:
Warhammer fest is holding seminars/ tutorials on how to paint chaos death guard so they hopefully should be out before then
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/02/eavy-metal-at-warhammer-fest/

What would be a good CAD at 1000pts???? Got a small 1K tournament coming up soon


I would probably run three units of autocannon havocs, two units of CSM in rhinos and a terminator lord with termicide. Not sure how much points that is, but it would be a really strong list


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 05:23:50


Post by: Kizuke21


Anyone have any helpful tips for someone just starting to get into DG? I'm pretty bad at figuring out what's good and what isn't, all I know is that I want bikes


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 05:28:12


Post by: GodDamUser


Havoks and Bikes for dayz, with a flying DP/or Typhus with Zombie spam for troops



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 05:53:50


Post by: Kizuke21


So Typhus and the Zombies are worth it? I've thought about it but I don't really know what they'd accomplish


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 08:01:23


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Kizuke21 wrote:
So Typhus and the Zombies are worth it? I've thought about it but I don't really know what they'd accomplish

Typhus is worth it when you infect Alpha Legion Cultists and run him in a Spawn star. Otherwise he's completely ignorable. Which is a shame because he theoretically offers tons of utility.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 11:38:27


Post by: killerpenguin


 Kizuke21 wrote:
Anyone have any helpful tips for someone just starting to get into DG? I'm pretty bad at figuring out what's good and what isn't, all I know is that I want bikes


Spawn, biker lord, bikes, obliterators, havocs are the best units imho. A vectorium is a good place to start, a couple CSM squads in rhinos, I would skip the jump infantry and get bikes (I suggest 4-5 bikes in each unit). You need a unit of chosen or termies, I only have chosen and I'm pretty happy with them, but I hear very good things about combi melta termicide. Drop the brute and get havocs. A biker lord can run with 5 spawn or a blob of bikes. He usually always makes up for his points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Kizuke21 wrote:
So Typhus and the Zombies are worth it? I've thought about it but I don't really know what they'd accomplish

Typhus is worth it when you infect Alpha Legion Cultists and run him in a Spawn star. Otherwise he's completely ignorable. Which is a shame because he theoretically offers tons of utility.


that sounds like fun, you just run a CAD with two cultist blobs and a cheap lord? Do you run infiltrating chosen too?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 12:29:37


Post by: -v10mega


I toyed with the idea of having 6x20 chaos cultists from an AL CAD and then bringing another CAD with typhus and 2 squads of barebones CSM and then as many lords as I can get to put in the zombies. Never going to do it, but it seems really good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/05 16:09:25


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 killerpenguin wrote:
 Kizuke21 wrote:
Anyone have any helpful tips for someone just starting to get into DG? I'm pretty bad at figuring out what's good and what isn't, all I know is that I want bikes


Spawn, biker lord, bikes, obliterators, havocs are the best units imho. A vectorium is a good place to start, a couple CSM squads in rhinos, I would skip the jump infantry and get bikes (I suggest 4-5 bikes in each unit). You need a unit of chosen or termies, I only have chosen and I'm pretty happy with them, but I hear very good things about combi melta termicide. Drop the brute and get havocs. A biker lord can run with 5 spawn or a blob of bikes. He usually always makes up for his points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Kizuke21 wrote:
So Typhus and the Zombies are worth it? I've thought about it but I don't really know what they'd accomplish

Typhus is worth it when you infect Alpha Legion Cultists and run him in a Spawn star. Otherwise he's completely ignorable. Which is a shame because he theoretically offers tons of utility.


that sounds like fun, you just run a CAD with two cultist blobs and a cheap lord? Do you run infiltrating chosen too?

I had done a Purge detachment with 3 Chosen with Melta in Rhinos, Typhus with a retinue of Obliterators, and then an Alpha Legion Lost And Damned and gave the Apostle a Mindveil. Rest of the points were spent on Cultists.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/08 17:10:48


Post by: killerpenguin


Hi guys, I didn't get any response on my list, so I thought I'd post it here. The psyker from the warband join the Spawn(to spread out the obsec), the other psyker join the biker unit with the lord. They both roll on telepathy and biomancy to get shrouding and or invisibility for the helbrute- and biker unit.

The helbrute warlord rolls on the night lords warlord table hoping for hit and run or rampage. The brutes will walk up the middle of the board, hoping for some double tap plasma action.

I hope this list will be somewhat competitive, i'd love to hear what you guys think. ty


Death Guard Vectorium

Chaos Warband

Chaos Lord - bike, MoN, PF, LC, Sigil of corruption - 165

Sorcerer - bike, MoN, ML3, spell familiar, Force axe - 175

Chaos Bikers x5 - MoN, 2 x melta, power axe - 175

CSM x5 - rhino, MoN, plasma - 140

CSM x5 - rhino, MoN, plasma - 140

Chosen x5 - rhino, MoN, 2x melta - 160

Havocs x5 - MoN, 4x autocannon - 130

Lord of the legion

Sorcerer - bike, MoN, ML3, spell familiar, Force axe - 175

Spawn - MoN - 36

Night lords Formation - Helbrute murder pack

Helbrute (Warlord) - Plasma Cannon, PF
Helbrute - Plasma Cannon, PF
Helbrute - Plasma Cannon, PF
Helbrute - Plasma Cannon, PF
Helbrute - Plasma Cannon, PF


1846




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/08 17:21:43


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Looks solid, but why only two specials for the chosen? Point of chosen in my mind is to max out specials.

Also I don't like Plasma cannons, the small blast sucks and helbrutes don't want to lose hull points because of gets hot. You could save points there with Multimeltas and have sth. against armour as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/08 20:54:03


Post by: killerpenguin


Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Looks solid, but why only two specials for the chosen? Point of chosen in my mind is to max out specials.

Also I don't like Plasma cannons, the small blast sucks and helbrutes don't want to lose hull points because of gets hot. You could save points there with Multimeltas and have sth. against armour as well.


Thanks for the commen! I find the plasma cannon really effectiveness if I get off enfeeble I will ID T:4 models. Multi melta is range 12"; can't say I find them effective outside mayhem pack. I give the chosen 4 special weapons when I have the points for it, couldn't find the points for it in this list. And I can only shoot 2 weapons out of the firing slots in the rhino.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/09 12:09:36


Post by: Amanax


 killerpenguin wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Looks solid, but why only two specials for the chosen? Point of chosen in my mind is to max out specials.

Also I don't like Plasma cannons, the small blast sucks and helbrutes don't want to lose hull points because of gets hot. You could save points there with Multimeltas and have sth. against armour as well.


Thanks for the commen! I find the plasma cannon really effectiveness if I get off enfeeble I will ID T:4 models. Multi melta is range 12"; can't say I find them effective outside mayhem pack. I give the chosen 4 special weapons when I have the points for it, couldn't find the points for it in this list. And I can only shoot 2 weapons out of the firing slots in the rhino.


Multi-Meltas are 24" range. You are thinking of Meltaguns (The troop hand held version). Maybe you'll find it a bit more useful now =P


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/09 15:11:06


Post by: killerpenguin


lol, you're right.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2351/04/06 07:44:54


Post by: killerpenguin


How do you guys think DG wil fare in the new edition with the recent news about multiple wounds and better leadership mechanics?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/26 10:27:29


Post by: TonyH122


Well every extra point of toughness makes every wound more valuable, so extra toughness will always be a huge benefit.

But one thing that I think needs to be discussed is movement. I would think that it's very likely that, one way of balancing what is now DG's far superior benefit to those of other legions, is that they MoN will probably give a hit to movement. Maybe just 1", but it all matters. They're certainly pushing the 'slow advance' idea on the webpage.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/26 13:55:45


Post by: Pilau Rice


I'm just hoping that it is at least equal to what we have in Traitor Legions. It's been nice winning some games!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/26 16:05:35


Post by: killerpenguin


Yes, its been great to have a list that can actually win. I'm wondering what they'll do with wargear. Just finished my DP with the black mace.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/27 11:19:43


Post by: Pilau Rice


I fear for the Black Mace, I think that'll be gone :(


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/28 01:25:50


Post by: Nightlord1987


 Pilau Rice wrote:
I fear for the Black Mace, I think that'll be gone :(


This is why I've always modeled Relic Weaponry generically, (the black SWORD, instead of Mace) or as a separate model (like the Sword familiars in Castlevania).

Losing The Burning Brand however, is gonna be disappointing for my Raptor Lord model.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/04/28 08:07:35


Post by: Pilau Rice


Well, my Black Mace is a big Axe and I just say it's called the Mace because of the mushing it does rather that it being an actual Mace


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/05/03 01:39:27


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Has anyone tried minimum army but maximum number of nurgle flying princes? A flying circus of at 4 death guard princes with FNP should be a pain to fight.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/05/03 02:54:23


Post by: cod3x


One thing to keep in mind, moving and firing HW is now a simple -1 modifier, so the relentless isn't as strong in this edition. Given the changes to charging and shooting, the fight and fall back cycle inherently benefits DG, who can take more shooty than most.

Currently, DG havocs are insanely good, and keep in mind raptors can fire plasmas and still charge with relentless, so keep the meltas on terminators and let raptors have the plasma since DG dont have the no charge tax and raptors are cheaper if they overheat.

Dont take the formation with poxwalkers hive. 3 cultist squads will take till turn 4 to make into zombies and it cost about 350-400 pts. Use in CAD's or allied dets. Allied Belakor and a single cult squad is 400 pts and way way better. Hell make em invisible.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/08 13:44:52


Post by: zerosignal


DG just sucks awfully in 8th. I'm considering shelving my army; it's effectively just vanilla csm with a green paint job.

I thought maybe running plague marines, but they're so expensive for not much bonus.

Very disappointing :(


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/10 05:57:28


Post by: plagueknight


DG don't seem to be that bad sure they lost access to a lot of stuff but I look forward to running my Death Guard how I ran them back in 5th and the older edition nothing but plague squads with lots of Helbrutes supporting and it actually being good we will be getting a better update later on so until then I'll just be sticking to basically plaguecaster, possessed, plague marines and Helbrutes as a small force until I can add the bigger stuff


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/16 22:18:42


Post by: Requizen


So how do Mechanized DG look? Rhinos, Preds, maybe walkers of some sort?

Mixing in Daemons seems pretty good too, considering how strong Nurgle Daemons are.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/18 11:39:00


Post by: darthryan


So i thought i would do a quick run down of what i think of our new units and see what you all think

1. Lord of contagion
184pts vs 127 for a normal terminator lord for +1T and DR . You swap lord of chaos rule for nurgles gift. You also lose any shooting attacks and get a slightly better power axe. Personaly im not sure this guy is worth it yes he is a bit more survivable but loses utility and flexability. I think rerolling all hit rolls of a 1 is much better than a 50% chance to cause 1 wound.

2. Malignant plaguecaster
First of the model needs work the face and porridge effect look aweful. Also loses access to warptime so is instantly a fail as far as i am concerned.

3. Plaguemarines
These are great but slightly overpriced as many other people have said before.

4. Poxwalkers
Pointless unit it is a slow moving weak unit that has no shooting. Everything they do cultists do better for a few extra points or plague bearers do much much beter but are expensive. The creating new poxwalkers when you kill something sounds great but you are hardly ever going to kill anything with them. Nobody with half a brain will ever let them reach combat in numbers (not that they can even do a horde why max out at 20 models it sound of been 30 or 40 atleast).

5. Bloat drone
Looks awesome but im just not seeing it as a good choice. It is massively expensive for what it can do i would rather just take a helbrute or maulerfiend.

6. Blightbringer
A nice model. So this guy is a mixed bag on his own he is a bit crap. But buffing other units he is pretty good at what he does as extra speed is very useful for our forces but im not sure paying an extra 80pts to make poxwalkers suck a bit less seems to be a stupid use of points. Just take plague bearers in the first place


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
So how do Mechanized DG look? Rhinos, Preds, maybe walkers of some sort?

Mixing in Daemons seems pretty good too, considering how strong Nurgle Daemons are.



Not tried rhinos or preds yet but helbrutes and fiends are great in this edition


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/18 11:46:27


Post by: C.Straken


darthryan wrote:
So i thought i would do a quick run down of what i think of our new units and see what you all think

1. Lord of contagion
184pts vs 127 for a normal terminator lord for +1T and DR . You swap lord of chaos rule for nurgles gift. You also lose any shooting attacks and get a slightly better power axe. Personaly im not sure this guy is worth it yes he is a bit more survivable but loses utility and flexability. I think rerolling all hit rolls of a 1 is much better than a 50% chance to cause 1 wound.

4. Poxwalkers
Pointless unit it is a slow moving weak unit that has no shooting. Everything they do cultists do better for a few extra points or plague bearers do much much beter but are expensive. The creating new poxwalkers when you kill something sounds great but you are hardly ever going to kill anything with them. Nobody with half a brain will ever let them reach combat in numbers (not that they can even do a horde why max out at 20 models it sound of been 30 or 40 atleast).


Why is anyone ever taking a Lord of Contagion? Typhus is the exact same stats that has added bonuses and is only 164 points. Plus he then buffs the Pox Walkers that you are using at 20 models.

The Lord of Contagion is massively overpriced. I would never even look to use him, I will be using his model as a stand In Typhus.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/18 20:03:32


Post by: Grim Squeaker


Found a nice wee combo.

A Herald of Nurgle works ery nicely with a pair of Bloat Drones.
The Herald buffs the flamers on the Drones to 7 since they are strength user - user them against Ghost Arks last night to great effect.
Plus he can heal them! It's pretty fun.

I have often found with my Chaos armies that I tend to have some quality attacks available to me (maulerfiend, daemon prince, etc) but lacked the tools to clear chaff effectively
The Bloat Drone in my opinion fills that roll very well.
Having the fly key word stops them from being nutralised by charging chaff units - and since their weapons auto hit the overwatch is fantastic.
Their weapon is also assault so movement is basically 10+D6 with no penalty to hit (again since they're auto hitting)

Regarding the LOC - I think he'll be a proxy Typhus for a lot of peoples armies, he certainly will be in mine.

Finally I think the key to using the Poxwalkers is for board control.
The Blight bringer makes them snappy enough at moving, going 8-10" most turns - with two max blobs a very large area of the centre of the board can be controled.

Since objectives are now scored on number of models within range having units that can stretch out and potentially cover multiple objectives is golden.

I would also make my Poxwalkers unappealing to fire into - threaten with your maulers and other scary units who do damage but are easily denied objectives.
By late game once both armies have self destructed your opponent won't have the fire power left to shift the walkers who now control the board.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/19 17:43:55


Post by: sfshilo


Some big differences are starting to stand out with DG now.

Plague Marines
Used to be: Tough, multi-tool, good at tar-pitting pretty much everything, versatile.

Now: Tough, shooting unit that is best in cover and taking assaults.

I know we are lamenting not having Termies, but putting them with the lord of contagion is a pretty good tactic. The LoC is really slow to support anything else. Could he be a beast backing up mutilators maybe?

Havoc launchers are a fantastic multi-tool, it's like having a 48" tau rifle with it's S5 D6 shots.

Preds with pred guns, AWESOME. Take them and take some more.

Palaquins are SUPER slow, sorc on a palaquin is probably best in the backline supporting something like preds or plague marines.

Finally, for an "unwaivering advance" army this iteration of DG is the opposite. Much better off shooting imo....
The blight drone and DP seem to be the only things that can move upfield and be successful.

Being able to shrug off multiwound damage and mortal wounds is nuts when you are in cover.

After two games with Plague Marines I'm starting to adjust, it was amazing before to just wade up field and tank nearly everything, but with leadership 7/8 and no good way to buff that they are now a rearguard unit that should sit and cover and infuriate your enemies. (They just DO NOT DIE in cover.)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/19 18:08:48


Post by: C.Straken


The List I plan to use, isn't super competitive but I think has all the needed parts to start on.

Typhus
2x Plaguecasters
Blightbringer

2X 7 Plague Marines with Blight Launchers
14 Poxwalkers
2X Blight Drones
Herald of Nurgle
14 Plague Bearers
7 Plague Drones

It is not the best, but very fluffy. Also, those Drones all together can first turn charge most of the time or get right up and scare people. The Herald will take the healing power to replenish the Plague Drones, along with their Icon.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/20 13:06:07


Post by: zverofaust


I think Poxwalkers aren't getting enough credit and with Typhus nearby I think they can be pretty beastly swarm units. Get 20 of them for only 120 points and cast Miasma to reduce incoming fire, they get T4 and 5+ FNP, and once in combat they get 2 attacks each hitting on 4s at S4 and add a model for every kill. Plus they're Fearless. I think they'll shine as meatshields for Typhus and cheap tarpit/counterswarm units.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 13:48:02


Post by: gwarsh41


If you want some bullet sponges, proxy up or buy giant chaos spawn. They are dumb resilient for their cost, and can put out a respectable amount of damage.

They are also have super cool unique rules. (THANKS FW!!!)

I agree that poxwalkers are pretty nice. They are not the R&H zombies of 7th, but being able to walk out of combat is very nice.

If anyone charges them, you can fall back, then burn them with a bloat drone, or counter charge with other units.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 16:56:11


Post by: evolyze


On a single Psychic phase can I stack Miasma of Pestilence (-1 to hit) multiple times on the same unit? Effectively bringing -2,-3, -4, etc.. to hit?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 18:08:08


Post by: killerpenguin


evolyze wrote:
On a single Psychic phase can I stack Miasma of Pestilence (-1 to hit) multiple times on the same unit? Effectively bringing -2,-3, -4, etc.. to hit?


What do you think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 19:51:33


Post by: gwarsh41


If you are playing open play, go for it. I think the other 2 types of game say no.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 19:52:33


Post by: evolyze


 killerpenguin wrote:
evolyze wrote:
On a single Psychic phase can I stack Miasma of Pestilence (-1 to hit) multiple times on the same unit? Effectively bringing -2,-3, -4, etc.. to hit?


What do you think?


Well, I have only read through the new core rule book only once and didn't see anything about stacking psychic power but I may have missed it...

What do YOU think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
If you are playing open play, go for it. I think the other 2 types of game say no.


Match Play..


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 20:23:05


Post by: killerpenguin


evolyze wrote:
 killerpenguin wrote:
evolyze wrote:
On a single Psychic phase can I stack Miasma of Pestilence (-1 to hit) multiple times on the same unit? Effectively bringing -2,-3, -4, etc.. to hit?


What do you think?


Well, I have only read through the new core rule book only once and didn't see anything about stacking psychic power but I may have missed it...

What do YOU think?



If I use catalyst on my genestealers twice do i get 3+ fnp?

I think not.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 21:25:54


Post by: Cryonicleech


evolyze wrote:
On a single Psychic phase can I stack Miasma of Pestilence (-1 to hit) multiple times on the same unit? Effectively bringing -2,-3, -4, etc.. to hit?


According to the Matched Play rules, no.

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Psychic Focus: With the exception of smite, each psychic power can be attempted only once per turn, rather than once per psyker per turn.


So you can only attempt to cast Miasma once per turn. Thus there's no way to get more than -1.


I'll agree with many that Death Guard are in a weird interim spot as of now. I'm particularly looking at the Blight Drone and Hellbrutes (with fists and power scourge) as well as a land raider to do my heavy lifting.

A 2d6 S6 flamer is nothing to sneeze at, and costs almost as much as a hellbrute with a fist and power scourge. It has more wounds and the same toughness, and as a nice bonus is a daemon, and can be affected by Daemon psychic powers/is buffed by the Herald of Nurgle.

I am debating whether or not to take a Malginant Plaguecaster, or use the model as a Chaos Sorcerer in order to get access to the Dark Hereticus powers. Has anyone found Contagion to be incredibly useful?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/21 21:49:48


Post by: blaktoof


C.Straken wrote:
darthryan wrote:
So i thought i would do a quick run down of what i think of our new units and see what you all think

1. Lord of contagion
184pts vs 127 for a normal terminator lord for +1T and DR . You swap lord of chaos rule for nurgles gift. You also lose any shooting attacks and get a slightly better power axe. Personaly im not sure this guy is worth it yes he is a bit more survivable but loses utility and flexability. I think rerolling all hit rolls of a 1 is much better than a 50% chance to cause 1 wound.

4. Poxwalkers
Pointless unit it is a slow moving weak unit that has no shooting. Everything they do cultists do better for a few extra points or plague bearers do much much beter but are expensive. The creating new poxwalkers when you kill something sounds great but you are hardly ever going to kill anything with them. Nobody with half a brain will ever let them reach combat in numbers (not that they can even do a horde why max out at 20 models it sound of been 30 or 40 atleast).


Why is anyone ever taking a Lord of Contagion? Typhus is the exact same stats that has added bonuses and is only 164 points. Plus he then buffs the Pox Walkers that you are using at 20 models.

The Lord of Contagion is massively overpriced. I would never even look to use him, I will be using his model as a stand In Typhus.


Unless the points cost on typhus is a typo, the only reason is to have more than one source of nurgles gift.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/22 21:57:49


Post by: killerpenguin


I had my fist two DG games of 8th ed today!

Daemon Prince of Nurgle 2x Malefic talonss,Warp bolter,Wings
Plague Marines (5) - Plasma gun, 2xBlight launcher
Chaos Spawn (5)

close to 500 pts

I traded the primaris marines for another set of DG starter set, so I'm very sure two bloat-drones is my addition for the next game in the escalation league (750). I'm dropping two spawn for two bloat drones. This takes me to exactly 750.

Daemon Prince of Nurgle 2x Malefic talonss,Warp bolter,Wings
Plague Marines (5) - Plasma gun, 2xBlight launcher
Chaos Spawn (5)
Foetid Bloat-drone
Foetid Bloat-drone

The games was great, the first was a close game against IG. IG had a flamer tank of sorts, 3x3 mortar squads, 2 small squads of conscripts and a elite team of deep striking men with 2 meltas and a plasma pistol i believe.

DP screened by the spawn moved up. The spawn took a ton of fire. He didn't have any high str. weapons, so he took forever to pick wounds of the spawn. PM sat back and shot. They shot the flamer tank down to 2 wounds in 3-4 rounds. Not an ideal target. They stood in cover and were close to unkillable.
IG elite team dropped in round 3 and barely killed the DP in one round. It would have gone entirely different if i had screened him as i should.
It ended round 5 IG had 2 objectives and slay the warlord, 7 pts. I had slay the warlord, first blood, killed one heavy weapon unit and one objective, 6 pts. Close fun game.

Next game was against black templars. They didn't stand a chance. He tried some cc action against my spawn. then the DP joined the party and killed them all. PM dropped his HW squad after the LC dropped the DP to 2 wounds. But he go into combat in time.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/25 16:40:48


Post by: Iago40k


Hey guys, totally new chaos player here. Of course ive got myself the dark imperium box and traded SM into DG so ive got at least some models. Now. How to build a rather competitive list from here. 40 poxwalkers, typhus, blightbringer, some plague.marines in rhinos and...well and what? Daemon princess? Nurgle daemons? Any idea is appreciated.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/25 21:55:58


Post by: killerpenguin


Iago40k wrote:
Hey guys, totally new chaos player here. Of course ive got myself the dark imperium box and traded SM into DG so ive got at least some models. Now. How to build a rather competitive list from here. 40 poxwalkers, typhus, blightbringer, some plague.marines in rhinos and...well and what? Daemon princess? Nurgle daemons? Any idea is appreciated.


It kind of depends on what kind of army you want to play. I find plague marines really strong this edition. I would definitely get a normal chaos lord. The one from DV is a beautiful model and his loadout should work well (plasma pistol and PS). His re-roll 1's to hit aura is really nice. You can walk him up the board with typhus and the poxwalkers and the blight bringer or take him along with some PM. So lets say you have a blob of zombies, tyhus, BB and the lord. A couple squads of PM, 2 drones.

You're gonna want something to deal with High toughness models. I'm not sure yet what is gonna be the most competitive this edition, but you should bring some heavy support, LC predators, havocs with LC or ML. Chosen with meltas in a rhino might also be effective.

Personally I like the modelling aspect of the game as much if not more than the game itself. So I'm working on 6 helbrutes at the moment, It takes some time to convert them, but so far i have 3 with pf and scourge and 3 with pf and LC, they're magnetized, so I have some other options as well. Im trying them out tomorrow! The idea is to surround a plague caster, a blight bringer, a sorcerer and Chaos lord with the 6 brutes and walk them up the field. They get some bonuses from this. re-roll 1's from the lord. 2d6 pick the highest on advance from the blight bringer. There are also some benefits from the psychic powers from death guard and dark hereticus.

So i can't really say what works until i've tried it out. I also hear the heldrake is good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/25 22:25:43


Post by: lord_blackfang


Next time I play - might take a while - I'll be trolling with Nurgle Air Force. 3 drones, 2 heldrakes, 6 plague flies, DP, Typhus. Land Raider backup to deal with big things.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/27 09:24:06


Post by: killerpenguin


Some thoughts on the helbrute. I played a game with my 6 helbrutes yesterday. 3 with LC and PF, 3 with PF and scourge. I also brought a DP with the cc ones and a lord with the ranged ones for the re-roll 1's.

- They are vulnerable to explodes if they're close to eachoder. My DP and 2 of the brutes were close when one of them exploded. It took 3 wounds of the DP, 3 wounds of one brute and 2 of the second brute.

- They are vulnerable to LC and high strength shots and high ap. With their 3+ save and T:7, even berserkers with S:6 chain axes wounds on a 5, so they're quite solid against evertyhing else.

- Beasts in cc. scourge is S:8 AP:-2 D:2 and they have 4 base, +3 for using scourge, +1 if you have a 2 cc weapons. So thats 8 attacks. And no degredation.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/27 09:51:17


Post by: garetheves


Grim Squeaker wrote:
Found a nice wee combo.

A Herald of Nurgle works ery nicely with a pair of Bloat Drones.
The Herald buffs the flamers on the Drones to 7 since they are strength user - user them against Ghost Arks last night to great effect.
Plus he can heal them! It's pretty fun.

I


Does that work? Just reading the Index and the Keyword on the Herald of Nurgle states it can use its buff on other Nurgle Daemon. Are they classed as 2 separate keywords (ie can use on Nurgle or Daemon) or does the intended target only have to have to have both of them?
Im new to Chaos and Nurgle in particular but looking at how I can expand the DG (got 2 of them) box army a little and a Herald sounds like a good option, just want to make sure I field it legally


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/27 10:05:26


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


 killerpenguin wrote:

- Beasts in cc. scourge is S:8 AP:-2 D:2 and they have 4 base, +3 for using scourge, +1 if you have a 2 cc weapons. So thats 8 attacks. And no degredation.


Where do you get the "+1 if you have a 2 cc weapons" from? 7th ed is gone .


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/27 10:06:04


Post by: killerpenguin


garetheves wrote:
Grim Squeaker wrote:
Found a nice wee combo.

A Herald of Nurgle works ery nicely with a pair of Bloat Drones.
The Herald buffs the flamers on the Drones to 7 since they are strength user - user them against Ghost Arks last night to great effect.
Plus he can heal them! It's pretty fun.

I


Does that work? Just reading the Index and the Keyword on the Herald of Nurgle states it can use its buff on other Nurgle Daemon. Are they classed as 2 separate keywords (ie can use on Nurgle or Daemon) or does the intended target only have to have to have both of them?
Im new to Chaos and Nurgle in particular but looking at how I can expand the DG (got 2 of them) box army a little and a Herald sounds like a good option, just want to make sure I field it legally


Not 100% sure. I dont know the difference between "faction keywords" and "keywords".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
 killerpenguin wrote:

- Beasts in cc. scourge is S:8 AP:-2 D:2 and they have 4 base, +3 for using scourge, +1 if you have a 2 cc weapons. So thats 8 attacks. And no degredation.


Where do you get the "+1 if you have a 2 cc weapons" from? 7th ed is gone .


Battering onslaught. Helbrute rule.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/27 10:33:29


Post by: garetheves




Not 100% sure. I dont know the difference between "faction keywords" and "keywords".



its more the lack of a comma between the keywords that is confusing me. usually there would be a comma between them meaning it could either be used for Nurgle or Daemon. But in the Choas Index there isn't so im wondering if it could only be used against Nurgle Daemon specifically, one for an FAQ maybe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually its largely irrelevant as ive just been reminded that the bloat drones have the daemon keyword as well as nurgle anyway, so yes they should be able to be the target of the buff


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/27 16:53:40


Post by: sfshilo



Has anyone ran a pred autocannon heavy list? Especially with the fancy forge world option for "super" preds available?

garetheves wrote:
Grim Squeaker wrote:
Found a nice wee combo.

A Herald of Nurgle works ery nicely with a pair of Bloat Drones.
The Herald buffs the flamers on the Drones to 7 since they are strength user - user them against Ghost Arks last night to great effect.
Plus he can heal them! It's pretty fun.

I


Does that work? Just reading the Index and the Keyword on the Herald of Nurgle states it can use its buff on other Nurgle Daemon. Are they classed as 2 separate keywords (ie can use on Nurgle or Daemon) or does the intended target only have to have to have both of them?
Im new to Chaos and Nurgle in particular but looking at how I can expand the DG (got 2 of them) box army a little and a Herald sounds like a good option, just want to make sure I field it legally


Based on the <regiment> cannot be blood angels ruling that's a no-go until they FAQ it. HQ specific rules are clearly for Factions not just a keyword unless it explicitly states otherwise. I'm not sure it would have been that way if those jackasses didn't try and break the game by naming their IG Blood Angels but the imperial players like to ruin things for the rest of us.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/28 11:31:21


Post by: Captyn_Bob


If they were clearly for factions, the rules would say that. They dont. If you meet the keyword restriction, the ability works.
Daemon is different in that it can be a faction keyword and a normal keyword, but the rules don't differentiate between the two.

The faq ruling is a completely different issue, which is making up factions keywords to match other things.

Any ability that triggers on NURGLE DAEMON will work on any unit with both the NURGLE and DAEMON keywords.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/06/28 20:52:18


Post by: Grim Squeaker


Just tuning back into this conversation.
Yes the combo works and is perhaps a reflection of how daemons will best play in 8th - supporting their mortal brothers armies.

Within special rules there is no distinction between faction keywords and keywords - this is evidenced by the Warpsmith who references both <legion> and <Vechicle> in rhe same sentence without any distinction between the two.

So to put it another way;

-Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, Heldrakes, Possessed, Obliterators and the rest all benefit from buffs from heralds and Greater daemons . (Nom Epidemius)

-a daemon prince will kick out Rerolls to daemon engines of a different legion once it is of the same god

-and daemon psychic powers of the correct god

Nurgle in particular appears to be particularly strong in this regard :-)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/01 04:19:27


Post by: ZergSmasher


On the note of Death Guard/Nurgle Daemons combos, I came up with an idea for a list. 2 Battalion Detachments, 1 for DG and one for Daemons:
Detachment 1: Battalion Detachment (Death Guard)
HQ:
Typhus
Malignant Plaguecaster
Troops:
5 Plague Marines: 2x Blight Launcher, Powerfist on champion
18 Poxwalkers
17 Poxwalkers
Elites:
Helbrute: Multi-melta, Fist with Combi-bolter
Helbrute: Multi-melta, Fist with Combi-bolter
Noxious Blightbringer
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone
Dedicated Transport:
Chaos Rhino
Detachment 2: Battalion Detachment (Chaos Daemons)
HQ:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with wings: 2x Malefic Talons
Herald of Nurgle
Herald of Nurgle
Troops:
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings
20 Plaguebearers: Icon, Instrument
Fast Attack:
3 Plague Drones
Total 1999 points
I feel like this list will be kind of like a wall of death walking (or shambling) up the field. 9 Command Points should be helpful, as well as a total of 5 psykers to cast Smite and some of the decent Nurgle powers. I went with a Daemons Prince rather than a CSM one because it gets Disgustingly Resilient that way. The Helbrutes are there for some heavy firepower, as that is something Death Guard lack for the most part unless we want to take a Land Raider or something. One of my concerns is that the list is too slow, but I have a feeling that's just the way Nurgle plays. Originally I wanted to have a second Prince in there, but I wasn't sure if there was anything to cut to make room for one.

What do you guys think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/01 08:02:15


Post by: killerpenguin


I would bring at least 3 drones, they're sick, literally. Too bad the herald is so slow.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/01 08:49:58


Post by: Motograter


Necrosius is only 10pts more than the plaguecaster and him with typhus buffing poxwalkers is ridiculously good. He also has better psychic and stats than plaguecaster


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/01 12:27:11


Post by: killerpenguin


 Motograter wrote:
Necrosius is only 10pts more than the plaguecaster and him with typhus buffing poxwalkers is ridiculously good. He also has better psychic and stats than plaguecaster


Is he in Imperial armour? I can't find him.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/01 21:15:48


Post by: Nurgle23


 killerpenguin wrote:
 Motograter wrote:
Necrosius is only 10pts more than the plaguecaster and him with typhus buffing poxwalkers is ridiculously good. He also has better psychic and stats than plaguecaster


Is he in Imperial armour? I can't find him.

Imperial Armour page 40.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/01 22:43:47


Post by: ZergSmasher


killerpenguin wrote:I would bring at least 3 drones, they're sick, literally. Too bad the herald is so slow.

Unfortunately I only have the one model, although if one is included in the upcoming smaller starters I might just snag another. They do seem good, although only against infantry or very light vehicles like Land Speeders.

Motograter wrote:Necrosius is only 10pts more than the plaguecaster and him with typhus buffing poxwalkers is ridiculously good. He also has better psychic and stats than plaguecaster

I wish I could, but I don't have access to Forge World stuff right now. Otherwise I would totally do this!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/02 17:16:11


Post by: Captyn_Bob


New FAQ

Page 57 – Death Guard Army List
Add the following to the list of units that can be from
the Death Guard Legion:
‘Sorcerer on Palanquin of Nurgle (pg 24)

excellent


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/02 22:11:57


Post by: darthryan


But not the havocs,terminators or chosen that are still missing


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/03 01:54:31


Post by: ZergSmasher


darthryan wrote:
But not the havocs,terminators or chosen that are still missing

I have a feeling we will soon get some new unique units that take the place of those. Plus we are almost certainly getting Mortarion. Grandfather Nurgle has not forgotten us!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/03 07:20:13


Post by: darthryan


Well having fought against girlyman last week i hope Mortarion has a few tricks up his slimy decaying sleeve's


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/06 04:40:19


Post by: ZergSmasher


Looks like we'll be getting the Death Guard codex probably next month. Let's hope Mortarion is good!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/06 05:33:14


Post by: cerberus_


 ZergSmasher wrote:
Looks like we'll be getting the Death Guard codex probably next month. Let's hope Mortarion is good!


Unfortunately, that's a negative. The spoiler for August's White Dwarf was "index astartes". Also, as of their official announcement today, space marines and grey knights will be getting theirs first, followed by chaos space marines and then DG. If the "10 codices before December" holds true, DG will see their release around September.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/06 05:34:26


Post by: Thargrim


 ZergSmasher wrote:
Looks like we'll be getting the Death Guard codex probably next month. Let's hope Mortarion is good!


Hopefully, even if he is just alright i'm sure he will be worth using...simply cause the model is gonna be awe inspiring based on those old leaked images.

I just hope everything the DG get has its use and purpose, and is worth taking. So there isn't just one way to build a DG force. I do kind of hope nurglings, plaguebearers and basic daemon troops might make it into the DG codex.. I don't feel like buying the index just to field a few nurglings.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/14 13:55:12


Post by: DarklyDreaming


Hi fellas! Last day I was wiped out by a cult mechanicus army, how do you deal against:
1. Heavy shooting armies
2. Imperial Knights
The only solutions I found was to take terminatos as auxiliary detachment, and use a DP with warptime, against the IK I have 2 predators, but they get wrecked so easily by dunecrawlers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/14 16:07:01


Post by: zerosignal


Play a different faction.

DG are currently very underpowered.

No idea what logic dictated that - as one of the two factions in the starter - we don't get our codex until fricking September.

Colour me unimpressed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/17 09:19:06


Post by: Gibs55


I was just reading the wiki and it made comment that the DG Primarc is making a return in the 8th codex. Can anyone confirm this?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/17 09:33:58


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Gibs55 wrote:
I was just reading the wiki and it made comment that the DG Primarc is making a return in the 8th codex. Can anyone confirm this?


It's been heavily teased yes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 00:51:41


Post by: Gibs55


Would it be unwise to pickup a unit of Deathshroud terminators? Or is the general concenus that they will also be included in the next Codex?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 01:55:19


Post by: Fueli


Gibs55 wrote:
Would it be unwise to pickup a unit of Deathshroud terminators? Or is the general concenus that they will also be included in the next Codex?


Don't buy anything yet. Except starter box stuff, that is great. Oh and the new 3-man snapfit Plague Marines as they come with Blight Launcher.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 12:59:51


Post by: Wayniac


Gibs55 wrote:
Would it be unwise to pickup a unit of Deathshroud terminators? Or is the general concenus that they will also be included in the next Codex?


It's unlikely the actual Deathshroud terminators (as in the Forgeworld ones) will be in the new codex, there's a picture of a Death Guard terminator with some unknown crazy weapon. I would not buy anything yet until the Codex, which is unfortunate as currently Death Guard seem fairly lackluster unless you run a horde of Poxwalkers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 14:47:19


Post by: garetheves


can someone just clear something up for me, the whole Keyword thing at the moment, despite it meant to be easy, has me confused a little (although that is easily done)

Lets say I had a Death Guard detachment, to make it easier using the models from the box set. They all share faction keywords Chaos, Nurgle and Death Guard. DG gives them the faction bonus that plague marines are troops not elites and access to the DG psychic powers.

Now lets say I want to add a Herald of Nurgle to the detachment. We know it "can" because it has Chaos and Nurgle keywords, but if it joins does the rest of the detachment lose the Death Guard keyword and the benefits of it, or does the Herald simply not "gain" that keyword? The rule books states that for all models in a detachment must have the same keyword. In this example they kinda all do (Chaos, Nurgle) but not the DeathGuard. So does the detachment then lose the DG keyword and benefits?

I know its probably really simple but just not sure what is 100% right

Cheers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 15:10:25


Post by: Captyn_Bob


There are no DG faction benefits.. or rathe, they are not related to detachments. Plague marines with the DG Keyword are troops, that's true in any detachment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 15:57:10


Post by: garetheves


Captyn_Bob wrote:
There are no DG faction benefits.. or rathe, they are not related to detachments. Plague marines with the DG Keyword are troops, that's true in any detachment.


ok I can see that, its more a keyword benefit rather than a detachment benefit, I see, but my question is still relevant. In order to be part of a detachment all units must have the same keyword. If a Herald joins the detachment do the rest of the units have to then use the Chaos or Nurgle keyword instead of the DG keyword, thus losing the "Lords of the plague Host" benefit of being troops? Otherwise we would have a detachment made up of Death Guard units and 1 random Nurgle unit.

Cheers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 16:32:41


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Your common keyword would become CHAOS or NURGLE but that has no effect on the rules.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 16:40:22


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


You simply have to treat Plague Marines with Death Guard Keyword in the troop slot as a totally different unit than the Plague Marines with a [Legion] keyword in the elite-slot of CSM.
You can put Plague marines in the troop slot, but then they have to be Death Guard and can't, for example, benefit from a [Black Legion] Lord. There is actually no bonus to a Death Guard Detachment, there's only a bonus to Plague Marines with the Death Guard keyword.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 16:49:29


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Saying that, this will probably change when the codex drops.
Marine chapter tactics ate faction detachment dependent


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 19:31:04


Post by: garetheves


Ok cheers guys, think i understand it a bit more.
so simply put, i can put a Herald of Nurgle in my (90%) death Guard detachment with no negative effects to the abilities of the units already in it?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 20:29:57


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


garetheves wrote:
Ok cheers guys, think i understand it a bit more.
so simply put, i can put a Herald of Nurgle in my (90%) death Guard detachment with no negative effects to the abilities of the units already in it?


Exactly, he will even boost your Bloat Drone, as it has the Nurgle Daemon keywords.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/18 20:57:36


Post by: garetheves


Sgt. Cortez wrote:
garetheves wrote:
Ok cheers guys, think i understand it a bit more.
so simply put, i can put a Herald of Nurgle in my (90%) death Guard detachment with no negative effects to the abilities of the units already in it?


Exactly, he will even boost your Bloat Drone, as it has the Nurgle Daemon keywords.


Thats why im asking bt didnt know if it would mess up the existing detachment


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/19 08:57:19


Post by: darthryan


Plus he can heal the bloat drone


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/19 17:00:51


Post by: mcsheehy


Is it just me, or does anyone else see a price increase coming for the Blight Drones?

I'm running 3 at 1000 pts.

They are as good at killing big stuff (considering its 1000pts) as anything else!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/19 17:26:19


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Do you mean Bloat or Blight Drones? Because I see people mixing these up constantly...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/28 13:40:53


Post by: nfe


So, having come back to the game after many years away, I split Dark Imperium with a friend and have the DG guys. I've been holding off buying more units until the codex (and I'm away working for three weeks in August) so we've just been playing the starter models. I'm having a pretty tough struggle doing much against the Primaris Marines, though. I can hold objectives ok, but actually pushing him much is a tough gig. Not to mention the nuisance of his non-stop rerolls of 1 because killing his characters is a challenge.

So, if I want to add one or two units that will cheerfully murder 2-wound MEQs that is almost certainly going to stay after the codex, and is fluffy, what do I get? And what's available to go hunting characters?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/28 14:10:15


Post by: darthryan


Blight drones are good for assaination just move and advance maximum over the screening units and land next to the characters. 2d6 auto hitting shots are pretty nasty, plus he willl either have to move away from it,shoot it or charge it. If he moves then you have disrupted his firing line and made them move closer to the rest of your troops. If he shoots it then he rins the risk of it blowing up and it will take a lot of shoots to down one. If he charges it then he is just stupid plain and simple, 2d6 auto hits before he gets in to combat, then if he does not kill it in his turn jist fall back and shoot him again (bless the fly keyword)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/29 21:00:22


Post by: Wayniac


I am planning on starting death guard and should be getting two of the dark Imperium sets but it seems to me that they are fairly lackluster without some really hard gimmick list right now, at least until the Codex comes and they get the rest of their units. Is this correct? I have no desire to run zombie spam


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/29 21:52:06


Post by: darthryan


Unfortunatly zombie spam is about all we can do well at the moment. We have no havocs for long range, no raptors or bikes for speed, so shuffeling forward slowely is about it for now


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/31 20:20:14


Post by: Dioxalyn


So last night on a whim (and some liquid courage) I bought 60 zombies and another Bloat-Drone off of Ebay to bolster my Dark Imperium Death Guard and to start up another army.. Im hoping Death Guard get more stuff as the primaris has so I'm holding off on buying anything now. Was wondering if this was a decent list?

Batallion Detachment

Typhus

20 Poxwalkers
20 Poxwalkers
20 Poxwalkers

Foetid Blight-Drone
Foetid Blight-Drone

Noxius BlightBringer

Batallion Detachment

Malignant PlagueCaster

5 Plague Marines
Champ w/ Plaguesword
1Blight Launcher
5 Plague Marines
Champ w/ Plaguesword
1Blight Launcher
20 Poxwalkers

Super-Heavy Auxillary Detatchment
Renegade Knight
2Avenger Gatling Guns, Melta, Stormspear Missile Pod

100PL 2000pts with 9CP for lots of rerolls.


Never played a horde army or chaos before but this list seems like it would be pretty good, Plague marines on objectives, the 80 zombies and characters march up the field with the knight behind them while the drones zip around harassing stuff.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/07/31 23:13:12


Post by: Mandragola


I'm afraid those don't count as battalions. You need an extra HQ in each one.

I was at warhammer world this weekend and played 6 games for the Konnor campaign. 4 of them were against death guard (two of them with tzeench allies in doubles games).

I was kind of unimpressed by plague marines. They just didn't do me any harm at all. Their cost is odd, honestly, at 1 point more than an intercessor. Intercessors are clearly better - better gun, two wounds and two attacks. I'd try to charge them with my intercessors, ten bully them.

In all my games I found that plague marines were no threat. I think I actually killed every plague marine I came across... eventually.

The thing is, toughness is no substitute for killing the enemy. Dead models stop shooting back, so glass cannon units can sometimes succeed, by killing the threatening enemies.If you can't do that you just have to slog through all the fire, which isn't much fun.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 01:15:07


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


You need to lose some Pox to get additional Blight Launchers for those Plague Marines. Just one in each squad isn't going to do anything.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 06:57:10


Post by: Neronoxx


As noted above...
Can we have a conversation about how bad Plague Marines are?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 07:04:35


Post by: Coyotepunc


Currently, Death Guard can pack three plasma guns into a five-man squad, and back them up with plague knives and a power fist in case anyone charges them. That's sounding pretty killy to me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 07:33:57


Post by: Eldenfirefly


If you want plasma guns, you have pack more plasma guns into a squad of chosen for cheaper points.

If you really want to go cheap, you can pack the same number of plasma guns into a squad of havocs for even cheaper than said chosen squad. Just bring spearhead detachment.

So yes, you are paying for that resilience that death guard has by sacrificing fire power.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 07:34:32


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Wouldn't bother about the powerfist. Take a Combiplasma on the champ to save points. Once PMs are in CC, they are dead or won't kill. 20points for a powerfist on a 2A model is too much. Take a sword or axe if you really want him to be able to fight.

After the first games in 8th where I realized that my PMs have become much worse than in 7th they've been reduced to objective camping duty with two plague launchers. Those are actually nice weapons, as you put out 4 shots on 24", while you have to get closer with all the other options. But PMs don't want to get closer anymore.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 07:40:59


Post by: Captyn_Bob


I see most people running poxwalkers in 20s. Would splitting them into 10s be bad? Looking to squeeze more troops into a brigade.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 07:42:16


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Yes, you lose the +1 to hit when using only 10.
With 10models with 7+save and 5+ to wound I wouldn't bother. Could use Nurglings, they are the same cost as 10 powalkers and pretty annoying with their infiltrate ability.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 09:24:13


Post by: darthryan


Units of 10 poxwalkers can be used as a speed bump/screen for your characters or vehicles.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 15:35:59


Post by: sfshilo


After getting bogged down in close combat in three games I'm making sure I have plenty of plasma pistol coverage in my Plague Marine units now.

Plasma pistols are the single best close combat tool for this army lol.

To the person saying you cannot take other units not in DG, you can, just name them something else. (They just cannot be effected/targetted by DG auras and psychic effects.)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/01 17:59:03


Post by: darthryan


Call them guardians of death


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 06:29:02


Post by: Captyn_Bob


I've been putting 10 men Plague marines squads in rhinos in all my lists.. but thinking about it, would two 5 man squads would be better? Now that rhinos csn be shared.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 08:01:54


Post by: nfe


Captyn_Bob wrote:
I've been putting 10 men Plague marines squads in rhinos in all my lists.. but thinking about it, would two 5 man squads would be better? Now that rhinos csn be shared.


Two five man squads has the potential for six plasma guns to drop out of a transport, which is fun. Admittedly points-heavy but my circle of pals have mostly been playing PL so far. YMMV on its efficiency if playing points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 13:44:25


Post by: Wayniac


Honestly, I'll run marines because that's what appeals to me; I have little or no interesting in pretending I'm playing The Walking Dead (there's another game to scratch that itch). I really hope the codex, which should be within the month I hope, adds more variety. Death Guard doesn't have to be top tier, but I'd like at least middle of the road without having to go the boring spammy route, and IMHO you should be able to do mostly actual Plague Marines and not be awful.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 13:59:27


Post by: Prometheum5


Wayniac wrote:
Honestly, I'll run marines because that's what appeals to me; I have little or no interesting in pretending I'm playing The Walking Dead (there's another game to scratch that itch). I really hope the codex, which should be within the month I hope, adds a lot of variety. Death Guard doesn't have to be top tier, but I'd like at least middle of the road without having to go the boring spammy route.


Agreed. Right now I'm running DG for the Konor campaign, and my army is basically Typhus with a blob of Walkers, a Bloat Drone, and whatever the flavor of the week unit is. The Plague Marines are filler with whatever points are left, in part because all I've got are the new minis so my options for kit are limited, and because they just don't make sense right now next to more Pox Walkers. We desperately need better actual power armored Marine options in the full Dex. If I'm playing DG I want to be running heretic Astartes, not just a zombie horde.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 14:03:28


Post by: nfe


+1. Let's be honest, we all just want to run 30K DG with a bunch of daemon engines, right?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 14:09:37


Post by: Prometheum5


nfe wrote:
+1. Let's be honest, we all just want to run 30K DG with a bunch of daemon engines, right?


Pretty much, yeah. Grimy MkIII armor, tanks, and warp-tainted Dreadnoughts.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/02 14:17:49


Post by: Wayniac


nfe wrote:
+1. Let's be honest, we all just want to run 30K DG with a bunch of daemon engines, right?


Basically. And some phosphex mortars would be nice too


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 08:17:57


Post by: sykl


 Dioxalyn wrote:
So last night on a whim (and some liquid courage) I bought 60 zombies and another Bloat-Drone off of Ebay to bolster my Dark Imperium Death Guard and to start up another army.. Im hoping Death Guard get more stuff as the primaris has so I'm holding off on buying anything now. Was wondering if this was a decent list?

Batallion Detachment

Typhus

20 Poxwalkers
20 Poxwalkers
20 Poxwalkers

Foetid Blight-Drone
Foetid Blight-Drone

Noxius BlightBringer

Batallion Detachment

Malignant PlagueCaster

5 Plague Marines
Champ w/ Plaguesword
1Blight Launcher
5 Plague Marines
Champ w/ Plaguesword
1Blight Launcher
20 Poxwalkers

Super-Heavy Auxillary Detatchment
Renegade Knight
2Avenger Gatling Guns, Melta, Stormspear Missile Pod

100PL 2000pts with 9CP for lots of rerolls.


Never played a horde army or chaos before but this list seems like it would be pretty good, Plague marines on objectives, the 80 zombies and characters march up the field with the knight behind them while the drones zip around harassing stuff.





Why only 1 special per plague squad? they can take 2 no mater squad size


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 09:21:49


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Death guard already suffer from low damage output. You shouldn't take only one blight launcher per squad. Take at least two special weapons, and have your champion take a combi weapon as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 10:04:13


Post by: nfe


I've been having a lot of fun with two plasma guns and a combi-plasma in a PM squad against marines. Think a second squad of them and chucking both in a rhino is going to be the way to go until the codex.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 11:06:40


Post by: Mandragola


nfe wrote:
I've been having a lot of fun with two plasma guns and a combi-plasma in a PM squad against marines. Think a second squad of them and chucking both in a rhino is going to be the way to go until the codex.

Well ok, but given that the codex is likely to drop in the next few weeks, this probably isn't the time to do a bunch of shopping. Wait and see what the new releases are.

One thing I do think will be good is DG terminators. If T5 termies with disgustingly resilient become a thing, they will be exceptionally hard to shift.

Then there's Mortarion, the new tank, and whatever else comes along. I think there's every reason to feel hopeful about what might appear, but not to invest too heavily until you see what comes.

Oh and hopefully plague marines will get a significant price cut. I think they are worth something like 16 points each.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 12:39:40


Post by: nfe


Mandragola wrote:
nfe wrote:
I've been having a lot of fun with two plasma guns and a combi-plasma in a PM squad against marines. Think a second squad of them and chucking both in a rhino is going to be the way to go until the codex.

Well ok, but given that the codex is likely to drop in the next few weeks, this probably isn't the time to do a bunch of shopping. Wait and see what the new releases are.


Oh I wouldn't suggest going and buying them. I've got a bunch of PMs sitting around so I've just been using them and proxying bolters as plasmaguns. Not buying anything until the codex. Well, maybe another Bloat Drone since they're becoming my favourite thing ever.


One thing I do think will be good is DG terminators. If T5 termies with disgustingly resilient become a thing, they will be exceptionally hard to shift.

Then there's Mortarion, the new tank, and whatever else comes along. I think there's every reason to feel hopeful about what might appear, but not to invest too heavily until you see what comes.

Oh and hopefully plague marines will get a significant price cut. I think they are worth something like 16 points each.


Agree on all of the above. I don't think I'll really want to field Mortarion, but hopefully there are some ridiculous terminators and DG havocs of some description. Curious to see rules for the tank but the I think the fuzzy pictures of the model look horrible.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 14:24:10


Post by: Dioxalyn


Whoops sorry guys totally spaced on the Battalion needing two HQ's. Didn't know Plague Marines can take two special weps regardless, will definitely be using two blight launchers.

I planned to have my Plague Marines be static, just chilling on objectives all game, but would they be better off in a Rhino and with more weapons? I'll have to cut down on toys from the Knight or zombies to give them more weapons/transport, is it really worth it?


Also another question, do you take Disgustingly Resilient saves for the unsaved wound (roll 1 save regardless of damage) or a save for each damage done, (1 shot does 4 damage, i make 4 DR rolls)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 14:39:50


Post by: Wayniac


Each damage done. So 4 damage = 4 DR rolls


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 14:41:11


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Please to hear that power fists are going down to 12 points


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 14:42:52


Post by: zerosignal


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Please to hear that power fists are going down to 12 points


This makes my terminators very happy.

Also, PM Sgt with Power Fist


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 14:46:05


Post by: Wayniac


So if my plans go through and I get a second DI starter, the core of my army I think will be this:

Lord of Contagion (idc that typhus is better)
Malignant Plaguecaster
Blightbringer (idk why people say he's bad, he speeds Nurgle up?)
20x Poxwalkers (as a screen)
7 Plague Marines w/2x Blight Launchers (using default champion model from DI; adding a plasma gun here seems wrong?)
7 Plague Marines w/2x Plasma Guns (using Champion w/Plasma Gun)
2 Bloat Drones

That seems like a solid core, then hopefully when the new stuff comes I can add a unit of terminators, one and hopefully two Plague Crawlers, maybe a Rhino for one of the PM squads, and maybe Mortarion himself.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/03 14:50:42


Post by: nfe


Wayniac wrote:

Blightbringer (idk why people say he's bad, he speeds Nurgle up?)


I thought he'd be an autopick but having played two games with him and three without I haven't missed him at all when he isn't there.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/04 08:47:36


Post by: elk@work


Wayniac wrote:
So if my plans go through and I get a second DI starter, the core of my army I think will be this:

Lord of Contagion (idc that typhus is better)
Malignant Plaguecaster
Blightbringer (idk why people say he's bad, he speeds Nurgle up?)

may be wise to swap out blightbringer with a basic lord and let your PM rerol to hit - they need fire power more than speed... just keep the lord cheap ))


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/04 13:57:12


Post by: zerosignal


Plaguecasters are *really* good for supporting your PM's.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/05 16:04:31


Post by: Crusaderobr


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W069dPLTXg0

Just read the plague marine entry for the new chaos codex. Plague Marines have more options now then any space marine unit in the game now, takes up the entire page with war gear. Death Guard players are in for a real treat when the codex comes out. Try not to freak out when you read the flail of corruption, and the fact you can take 2 in each squad.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/06 18:06:07


Post by: MadMartigan805


 Crusaderobr wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W069dPLTXg0

Just read the plague marine entry for the new chaos codex. Plague Marines have more options now then any space marine unit in the game now, takes up the entire page with war gear. Death Guard players are in for a real treat when the codex comes out. Try not to freak out when you read the flail of corruption, and the fact you can take 2 in each squad.


Lots of new melee and special weapons. Gunna have to set them up as 5 man special unit squads. Plus prices going DOWN.... good day for papa nurgle.

I played my first true game of 8th last night. A tag team between my DG and Nids vs, SM and Eldar. Part of the Konor thing. We lost but I learned somethings. Typhus plus Malignant plaguecaster plus pox walker is a mix that will destroy anyone's frontline. Typhus buffing the pox, dealing mortal wounds for proximity both the pykers pumping out mortal wounds. It doesn't immediately kill everything, but because its resilient if you multicharge pox walkers it's a system that can jump from unit to unit if you're wise about your placement of typhus and the plaguecaster.

Very excited after this game. Think I'm gunna go into most matches with a core of 2x20 pox supported by typhus, plaguecaster and blightbringer. Everything else will depend on who I'm playing and the mission.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/06 21:49:10


Post by: SilverAlien


Hmm, any thoughts on the best way to use plague marines in the eventual DG codex? Speculative as we can't even use the current plague marine entry atm.

Acting as our objective hugging unit with the inevitable obj secured is what I see them doing best. A couple blight launchers to put out some ranged damage as they sit in cover, a couple flails if something gets in their face, plus a couple ablative wounds and the sarge. Might even run the sarge as an ablative wound if his options stay limited, rather have blight launchers and flails over plasma or power fists personally.

I'm not sure if I trust them as dedicated melee, they are basically melee chosen but a bit tougher and slightly better wargear. Depends on how our terminators and poxwalkers end up I suppose.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/09 17:14:31


Post by: Widied


So I'm just wondering what the general consensus is from Death Guard players as to the best ways to play this army? I am trying to help a friend build an army to be feared and it seems like to me the best way to run these guys is as a Horde Army.

It struck me watching a few games with these guys that you won't ever win a shooting fight against a shooty army. It's tempting to want to bring a long ranged component but I think it's a trap. You will be giving your opponent free points in many instances. Where the bulk of this army generally wants to be in combat and pushing forward AWAY from static units like defilers etc.

What did occur to me was if you forced your opponent to only be able to shoot at an insane amount of guys it could buy some time and create a scenario where your demon princes/Typhus/Terminators get a chance to strike pretty hard. You could almost do fantasy style hammer and anvil type army where you lock things up with all the crap guys that aren't meant to win fights while your big hitters get in there and do some work. I see alot of people flying demon princes or other forward units ahead of their slow ass army only to be surprised when they go up in flames. It seems that is counter to how this army should be played... with as cheap as poxwalkers and plaguebearers are you could easily field 60-70 of these guys in a 2000 point list.

What are your thoughts? Are you findings similar?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/10 11:58:01


Post by: Murenius


I have started testing my Death Guards (played "normal" CSM in the past and had some Plague Marines and Nurgle Daemons) and got the impression that they are really fun if you mix them with Nurgle Daemons. Otherwise I think your performance will highly depend on the mission and the table setup. If you have close objectives and need to sit on them you will generally be favored. If you need to be fast and get some dynamic Tactical Objective that popped up only this very round then you might have problems.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/10 12:53:20


Post by: SilverAlien


Widied wrote:
What are your thoughts? Are you findings similar?


Well, my big issue is our tool box is still missing parts. The biggest one is deepstriking, and demons don't do a great job filling that in. The second issue is that most of the unique units in our army are overpriced. Even with the point decrease for plague marines they are still on the upper edge of acceptable pricing, and everything else seems even worse.

So bottom line, trying to build DG right now just doesn't work. The best units we have are almost entirely ones shared by CSM, with no strong incentive to take them in DG beyond plague marines for obj secured thanks to that article. Still, I'll think about what at least isn't outright bad.

So I could see running a battalion of DG consisting primarily of PM, a couple HQs to buff them, and the bell ringer guys to run them all up the field as part of a mixed CSM army. Or too add some obj secured and shooting to a nurgle demon list given they apparently get neither.

As a standalone list right now? Running poxwalkers screening predators along with the above plague marines would work. This is about on par with anything normal CSM can do, given how pricey fearless is and the lack of CT on tanks. Chaos spawn also have no advantage to being taken by a normal legion, so that's an option.

A poxwalkers heavy list doesn't work really well now though, the more poxwalkers you take the more that 2 ppm more over a cultist hurts you. At a certain point, running cultist blobs with some of the various morale immunity HQs just becomes more effective points wise. Now, if they drop to 5 or even 4 ppm, worth considering. Currently... take in moderation for screening and nothing else.

Honestly though, wait for the codex and the rest of our models before thinking about it too much, as it stands there aren't any good choices, no DG army is actually good, at best we are a decent complement to a stronger overall army.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/16 08:29:52


Post by: Iago40k


Toying around with the idea to get a starting box nurgle daemons. I got the Death Guard Models from the new boxset twice and converted one LoC to Typhus and one Plaguecaster to Necrosius. My question is if the Daemon Box would make a good addition to my DG models. I know with the upcoming model releases this is hard to answer but Id like to know if the box is in general a good buy going into DG.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/16 09:03:13


Post by: Milkshaker


I hope our terminators get quite good shooting options and are competitively priced. CSM terminators with combi plasma and mark of slaanesh are quite good, so it will be hard to compete with that. I hope they will be able to do that, because plague marine prices are making me scratch them from my lists (that and I don't need them for anti horde, and they can't take AT).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/18 04:11:18


Post by: Cozzy215


Even though we are missing our Codex at the moment, I have really fallen in love with how the new DG models look so far. To that end I have been looking to run a combined DG/ CSM list in the mean time. I have played a few games of pure DG using the Index, and I am just positively salivating over the new wargear options for Plague Marines. That being said, I am looking for a good way to kit them out as objective holders, using them as Elite choices in a CSM detachment (likely Alpha Legion for that -1 at 12"). I was thinking use Plague Spewers or Belchers for that overwatch goodness, but I am torn on if I should kit them out as more melee or ranged oriented. Any suggestions?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/18 04:50:05


Post by: Darnok


Iago40k wrote:
Toying around with the idea to get a starting box nurgle daemons. I got the Death Guard Models from the new boxset twice and converted one LoC to Typhus and one Plaguecaster to Necrosius. My question is if the Daemon Box would make a good addition to my DG models. I know with the upcoming model releases this is hard to answer but Id like to know if the box is in general a good buy going into DG.


The Herald is a solid caster and buffs all [Nurgle] units, Nurglings have a useful deployment option to tie up enemy units early in the game, and Plague Drones provide a (relatively) fast flying unit. Plague Bearers are kind of redundant in a DG army, but you get another solid objective camp unit. I would say that the Nurgle SC box is a good addition to any Nurgle themed army.

BUT...

I would also advise against buying anything for the time being. The new DG codex is merely weeks away, and Nurgle Daemons will get new models too. Have some patience and wait. For a "pure" DG army there are many other things coming, and I guess they will be more helpful than Daemons. If not: you could still get the SC box after the DG release has settled down.

TL;DR: Wait for the Codex: DG release.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/19 03:41:13


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


Havent played any DG yet, I have been busy converting and waiting for the codex, but I have been theorycrafting some possible PM squad loadouts. These are all pretty obvious, but I would really like to see which one people think will be the most effective.

As a general purpose unit, I'm thinking 7 PM with 2 blight launchers, 2 flails, and PF and plaguesword on the champ.

A cheapish, yet durable screening unit to protect your line from charges could be 5 PM with just 2 plague flamers (cant remember there name).

And finally, I'm think 5 PM with 3 plasma guns could bring some solid firepower that is much needed in this army. 2 of these squads in a rhino can dish out some decent dakka.

Personally, I'm thinking of using 2 of the blight launcher squads and 1 of each of the others, all on foot with a blightwalker to steadily move up the board. I cant see dedicated cc PM being effective, but I could be wrong. Thoughts or different loadouts?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/21 22:08:46


Post by: broxus


Anyone have any predictions on what the Death Guard chapter trait will be? I will be absolutely crushed if it, "disgustingly resilient" which is a rule we already pay for and have on PM and most daemon models. You would then have to ask yourself what is the diffrence between plague marines and Death Guard plague marines.

I am curious if it will be rerolling 1s for your disgustingly resilient rolls.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/21 22:39:00


Post by: SilverAlien


broxus wrote:
Anyone have any predictions on what the Death Guard chapter trait will be? I will be absolutely crushed if it, "disgustingly resilient" which is a rule we already pay for and have on PM and most daemon models. You would then have to ask yourself what is the diffrence between plague marines and Death Guard plague marines.

I am curious if it will be rerolling 1s for your disgustingly resilient rolls.


Hmmm, well looking at traitor legions, we have reroll 1s on dr which seems a bit weak comparatively, cloud of flies which would be better, or relentless which doesn't really translate well. Possibly just a flat increase to DR could work, 4+ instead of 5+

There was also a rumor going around we'd get a few to choose from, with different war ands being part of DG. This is still tenuous though, but it'd be interesting if we did get a few options for CT, even if they were just copy paste from the other codices.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/21 22:58:33


Post by: Nightlord1987


I would think Cloud of Flies, and reroll ones for DR being stratagems (or powers/auras) over being the Legion Trait.

Its gonna be DR, and that fine.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/21 23:07:56


Post by: SilverAlien


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I would think Cloud of Flies, and reroll ones for DR being stratagems (or powers/auras) over being the Legion Trait.

Its gonna be DR, and that fine.


It could be, but if it is it'll stack with normal DR. Which would effectively mean reroll all failed DR for units that have it, and units that don't have it normally also get it. Otherwise they'd have to take away DR from plague marines, which means death guard plague marines don't have DR except when in a legion detachment which is silly, or just write the rule such that units already having DR gain nothing from legion tactics, which is also utterly nonsensical.

Honestly though, I think this is fairly unlikely, just from the way the last three codices were handled. It will likely be something totally new.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/21 23:47:06


Post by: broxus


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I would think Cloud of Flies, and reroll ones for DR being stratagems (or powers/auras) over being the Legion Trait.

Its gonna be DR, and that fine.


Well lets hope your wrong on that (you probably are not wrong). If they did that, what would be the point of playing a Death Guard army vs a chapter from the codex which gives chapter trait bonuses for free? That it would be like making the World Eaters legion trait, Khorne Bezerkers can pile in and attack twice



GW has a long history of shafting Nurgle in every one of their game systems. Even in Age of Sigmar (GH 1 & 2) they have shafted them with making them far to expensive to be competitive. GW tends to over value survivability, even if Nurgle units are generally very slow and generally lack offensive abilities. Just compare Nurgle Plague Marines to Khorne Bezerkers or Noise Marines and you will quickly see what I am talking about. If you review the current DG game results they are bottom tier and not giving them some price cuts, a solid chapter trait, more unit choices, and powerful strategums they will ensure they continue to lose and likely not sell well.

I would take cloud of flies or the buff to DR would work for me and likely make me want to collect them. I do think that a 4+ DR save may be overpowered and rerolling 1s may be more balanced. However, the -1 to hit from cloud of flies is already in the SM chapter traits.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/22 01:33:26


Post by: SilverAlien


Yeah but rerolling ones would be weak. It'd be less of a boost than even the flat 6+ iron hands get. So that'd be a bit lackluster. Hopefully they will find a good balance.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/22 07:43:07


Post by: Iago40k


With the new CSm codex dropped I still cant find the best spot for Plague Marines. I think their range shooting is subpar and I tend to go the 2 Flails 2 Heavy Flamer route for infantry killing. But they are very slow so they need a Rhino to get into places where they need to be. That point investment is way to huge imo. So what do you guys think will be the role for PM since I am pretty sure that they will stay the same as in the CSM codex.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/22 08:20:45


Post by: broxus


Iago40k wrote:
With the new CSm codex dropped I still cant find the best spot for Plague Marines. I think their range shooting is subpar and I tend to go the 2 Flails 2 Heavy Flamer route for infantry killing. But they are very slow so they need a Rhino to get into places where they need to be. That point investment is way to huge imo. So what do you guys think will be the role for PM since I am pretty sure that they will stay the same as in the CSM codex.


This is the problem with Nurgle in both 40k and AoS. They are resilient but extremely slow which should offset that. I think PMs need another 2-3 point decrease to truly be viable. They are still 2pts more expensive than lets say the Blood Angels Death Company.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/22 08:24:41


Post by: Iago40k


broxus wrote:
Iago40k wrote:
With the new CSm codex dropped I still cant find the best spot for Plague Marines. I think their range shooting is subpar and I tend to go the 2 Flails 2 Heavy Flamer route for infantry killing. But they are very slow so they need a Rhino to get into places where they need to be. That point investment is way to huge imo. So what do you guys think will be the role for PM since I am pretty sure that they will stay the same as in the CSM codex.


This is the problem with Nurgle in both 40k and AoS. They are resilient but extremely slow which should offset that. I think PMs need another 2-3 point decrease to truly be viable. They are still 2pts more expensive than lets say the Blood Angels Death Company.

Well, you are right no doubt. Points aside, what are they supposed to do? What is their battlefield role?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/22 10:05:08


Post by: broxus


Iago40k wrote:
broxus wrote:
Iago40k wrote:
With the new CSm codex dropped I still cant find the best spot for Plague Marines. I think their range shooting is subpar and I tend to go the 2 Flails 2 Heavy Flamer route for infantry killing. But they are very slow so they need a Rhino to get into places where they need to be. That point investment is way to huge imo. So what do you guys think will be the role for PM since I am pretty sure that they will stay the same as in the CSM codex.


This is the problem with Nurgle in both 40k and AoS. They are resilient but extremely slow which should offset that. I think PMs need another 2-3 point decrease to truly be viable. They are still 2pts more expensive than lets say the Blood Angels Death Company.

Well, you are right no doubt. Points aside, what are they supposed to do? What is their battlefield role?


To be honest I find their role simple: I try to model and paint PM to look as scary as possible in order to draw as much attention as possible away from my Khorne Bezerkers moving in for the kill. It's all about the number of spikes and skulls you can crowd on them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/23 13:19:05


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Truly curious to see what major changes occur. I have read over the new CSM page for Plague Marines and I am surprised at the plethora of options. End of the day though - that flail and those Blightlaunchers seem to be the more obvious go-to choices, right? At least currently, without the context of the new DG 'dex.

I hope we get a multipose, multipart kit that gives us loads of options, but it is GW so I expect I will be buying a lot of weapons off eBay.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/23 18:39:39


Post by: Xirax


Hi,
I swapped my unbuild primaris models from double DI and singular KNF & FS starter sets for DG equivalent. I want to paint something else, I got tons of BA and DA models.

I'm loving the paint theme of nurgle SM and want to try out the DG stuff.

I want to build a fluffy DG list, so I have ordered few new kits and waiting for the DG codex and the new releases..

What do you guys think, will there be their own transports for PM or can I just buy couple chaos rhino's and build them transports for PM? In the released picture there seems to be more nurglish rhino's in the background.

For the fluffy list I'm thinking..

Typhus
Mortarion (will he be LoW?)
Daemon prince with wings
Malignant plaguecaster

3x 15++ blobs of poxwalkers

2x 5man PM with 3x plasma gun
1x 8man PM with 2x flails and 2x blight launchers with rest CC kitted

Noxious blight bringer
(group of deathshroud if my long range dakka is sufficient)

3x bloat drones

2x new tanks (I feel they will be like vindicator equivalent)

2x chaos rhino (or new transport model?)

I have a loyalist land raider unbuild but with green stuff I could add some tentacles etc to make it nurgle..

Does the above sound fluffy and still competitive? Atleast they would be fun to paint and only the tanks, transports and a box of termies (or deathshroud) is missing..

I want to do this army with the best quality paint job I can bring so I don't want to make any wasted purchases.

Hope you guys can help!




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/23 19:45:40


Post by: broxus


It is hard to speculate on any lists until the codex is released next month. There seems to be lots of extra options.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/27 07:13:50


Post by: Ebolatheripe


Any rumors saying they will have ALL of the Nurgle Daemons, not just Plague Bearers, included on the upcoming Death Guard Codex?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/27 07:32:13


Post by: Captyn_Bob


I see no reason why they would have All daemons in the non daemon codex, but they are pretty consistently shown alongside plague drones.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/27 10:08:12


Post by: Mandragola


I expect it will be all or nothing with daemons, and personally I'd bet on nothing. Daemons with a legion keyword would be weird and it would go against the principle that all the previous codices have had, which reward you for taking detachments only from that chapter, legion etc.

It will be interesting to see when the daemon codex comes whether it gives out that bonus for all-daemon detachments or if it goes further and rewards single-god detachments.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/28 21:51:56


Post by: Ebolatheripe


Some of the new DG info leaked from the new White Dwarf. There will be a webstore exclusive set of 3 new Death Guard models that look really cool.

There's clearly a new DG Apothecary model in one of the leaked pictures.

New Strategem: 3CP

Nurgle's Rot- Can be played once a battle in the shooting phase. You pick a character and roll a D6 for every unit within 7" of them. For every 4+ that unit takes D3 mortal wounds. Nurgle units can't be hurt


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/28 22:04:17


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 Ebolatheripe wrote:
Some of the new DG info leaked from the new White Dwarf. There will be a webstore exclusive set of 3 new Death Guard models that look really cool.


That's 40 US dollars for three, my friend.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 00:00:41


Post by: Ebolatheripe


 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 Ebolatheripe wrote:
Some of the new DG info leaked from the new White Dwarf. There will be a webstore exclusive set of 3 new Death Guard models that look really cool.


That's 40 US dollars for three, my friend.


Yeah I saw that and proceeded to throw up in true Nurgle style.

I don't know what they were thinking. The models don't look any more detailed than the three in the easy to build kit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 01:41:51


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


So does this mean no new PM kit? Seems like a real missed oppertunity after giving PMs all those cool new options, then not giving them models for it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 02:37:35


Post by: Hive City Dweller


TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
So does this mean no new PM kit? Seems like a real missed oppertunity after giving PMs all those cool new options, then not giving them models for it.


Oh there's definitly gonna be a new kit!

Look at all the previews in News and Rumors thread; https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/732375.page

The new previews from today show a lot more options: Giant ax-swinging plague marine, sword-bearing terminators etc. We even see the terminator from the March preview who's got the Blight Spewer and appears to have cyclone missile launcher. Not to mention there are at least a dozen new PM sculpts visible throughout, you just have to pick them out form the DI ones.

These 3 "unique models" are just a cash grab and are in fact mirror reflections of DI mini's with some minor details altered. Best to ignore them and wait for the proper kit next month I say.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 02:45:39


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


Awesome! So glad to hear that. Cant see the DG apothecary some people said were in the pics though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 06:09:31


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I hope they did enough play testing. Right now, you would need a really really resilient army to survive all the shooting a 2000 point shooty army can throw your way. And nurgle usually moves more slowly compared to normal CSM. So, you may need one more round to get into CC.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 23:34:30


Post by: Ebolatheripe


TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
Awesome! So glad to hear that. Cant see the DG apothecary some people said were in the pics though.


This guy has the little light looking thing on his backpack, and all the syringes and every thing.



Clearly an Apothecary



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/08/29 23:42:17


Post by: Nightlord1987


awesome. I had my doubts about (completing) my Death Guard army for 8th, but these new units have me reinterested.

At least with an Apoth we can potentially get a better DR roll, or something similar. I had assumed we would get a buff with a Strategem, or a Mortarion aura. Maybe stacking DR buffs on top of eachother?


MMMMMM.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 17:26:29


Post by: ZergSmasher


Okay, new preview articles are out for Death Guard:

Part 1: Stratagems, Relics, and Warlord Traits: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/05/death-guard-warlord-traits-stratagems-and-relicsgw-homepage-post-2/
Part 2: Special Rules and Psychic Powers: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/07/codex-focus-death-guard-part-2-special-rules-and-psychic-powers-sep-7gw-homepage-post-2/

I'm seeing a few really good things, as well as a few stinkers (and not in the delightful Nurgly way). Stratagemwise, I could see the Cloud of Flies one being really good for protecting a shooty Plague Marine unit, especially with the newly previewed DG "Legion Tactic" of shooting Rapid Fire weapons twice up to 18" away. Nurgle's Rot could be a fun one for a "jihad character" to run into a group of opposing units and pop the stratagem to hand out some mortal wounds, potentially hurting even a Character or two. I don't see it being used very often, especially for 3 CP. Putrid Explosion could really punish your opponent for using melee units to kill your vehicles, as you can make them automatically explode! That could be a fun one for a Zangiefbrute that's down to its last wound or two to run into a bunch of stuff, get its attacks in, then die and blow up in your opponent's face. As for Relics that were previewed, the Suppurating Plate looks great for a Daemon Prince, but the Pandemic Staff looks very meh. +1 on the test for casting Smite, one of the easiest powers to get off, is just not that exciting. Likewise, I don't find the Dolorous Knell terribly exciting either. It's just too situational.

One thing I did like is that they hinted that our Daemon Princes will in fact get Disgustingly Resilient, as they stated that the new warlord Trait called Revoltingly Resilient will make them potentially unstoppable when combined with the Suppurating Plate. Sounds spicy! Most of the time I'll probably be using Mortarion as my Warlord, though. The other previewed traits seemed kind of meh.

The Inexorable Advance rule seems really legit, letting DakkaBrutes move and shoot their big guns without penalty, and allowing Plague Marines and the new Termies to double tap with rapid fire up to 18" as I mentioned above. Plus you can advance and fire Assault weapons without penalty, which could be good for Melta PMs. The new Psychic powers seemed okay as well, allowing Plague Weapons to potentially dish out mortal wounds or adding 1 to the strength and toughness of an infantry unit (which might be really funny on Poxwalkers that are already benefitting from Typhus and/or Necrosius).

They also hinted at the number of units we will get, and stated that we will keep all the regular CSM units that we had access to in the Index, although said units will not be getting Disgustingly Resilient (but most if not all of the new stuff will!). Plus there will be some Nurgle Daemons in the DG codex as well, presumably for summoning.

TL;DR: Death Guard are going to be a fun army, even if not top-tier competitive. I'm looking forward to spreading the joy of Nurgle's corruption soon!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 17:37:21


Post by: Frozocrone


Tempted to sell off Thousand Sons and start Death Guard.

Just hoping they get access to the Helldrake (probably won't but please GW make it so)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 17:43:50


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I am thinking Typhus is better in a footslogging DG army while Mortarion will be better with deep striking DG terminators. Mortarion moves 12 inches. That will outpace all of the rest of the DG army by quite a lot. The only thing that can keep pace with Mortarion are deep striking Terminators, or possibly the bloat drones.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 18:19:10


Post by: Ecdain


 Frozocrone wrote:
Tempted to sell off Thousand Sons and start Death Guard.

Just hoping they get access to the Helldrake (probably won't but please GW make it so)


Sadly someone already asked that in the comments and Warhammer 40k responded only way to have heldrakes is in a separate detachment and Mark them nurgle. But not technically dg :(


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 18:59:56


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Ecdain wrote:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Tempted to sell off Thousand Sons and start Death Guard.

Just hoping they get access to the Helldrake (probably won't but please GW make it so)


Sadly someone already asked that in the comments and Warhammer 40k responded only way to have heldrakes is in a separate detachment and Mark them nurgle. But not technically dg :(


Air Wing. Done!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 19:28:44


Post by: SilverAlien


Plus our blight drones are, in practice, very similar to heldrakes, both have fly, flamers or a longer range gun, decent melee ability. Arguably drones are better as they don't officially count as flyers and avoid the annoying post stormraven rule changes, though they aren't as fast. But that's DG for you.

As for tactics, I so far see two areas we should do well in:

First, I think we might be the best chaos gun line. The CT works well with foot slogging infantry, we should have good screening troops of poxwalkers get a price cut, and the new tank has potential, plus the arch contaminator warlord trait for some strong synergy. We've got most of what we need, though some way to reroll all missed shots would both be nice and is unlikely to be a thing.

We've also got potential as a mechanized melee army. We've basically got a better version of melee chosen in the PM, loading two squads in a rhino could work wonders. The deathshroud look like they are made to be tossed in a land raider with an HQ or two, I don't see them being useful out of deepstrike unless they break the 9" rule or have a bonus to charge/longer range than what I'd assume the hand flamers have. Plus morty works best with such a build, and can keep up with the tanks well.

Those are the two ways I can see to build the army for now, though I'm sure that'll change as we get more info.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/07 20:49:43


Post by: Don Savik


what are we thinking about for helbrute loadouts? long range high damage weaponry (lascannon/missle) is something that a lot of plague units lack, but then again a melee variant might be strong with the exploding vehicle strategem. >_> gah I can't decide.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/08 04:52:33


Post by: ZergSmasher


I'm just brainstorming ideas for how to convert myself a good "counts-as" Necrosius. Maybe a regular CSM body or a Plague Marine, with a Grey Knight's force halberd, plus some kind of back banner (which I could make from Greenstuff in a pinch). Although, since his profile references "The Tainted", he might actually break a Death Guard detachment (neutering its legion tactics) unless he's allied in with another detachment (maybe with some Nurgle Daemons perhaps?).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/08 05:11:13


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


 Don Savik wrote:
what are we thinking about for helbrute loadouts? long range high damage weaponry (lascannon/missle) is something that a lot of plague units lack, but then again a melee variant might be strong with the exploding vehicle strategem. >_> gah I can't decide.


The correct answer is "take both".
So far I had success with one Lascannon/Missile brute and one Fist/Scourge. One of them won't survive first turn. With the upcoming changes it could go either way: Enemy decides to focus on helbrutes as they are one of the few units without DR and therefore quite vulnerable to multidamage weapons and giving up first blood. Or they decide to leave them alone and concentrate on the nasty more killy things, like Termis, Drones, Morti and what you have in your Rhinos.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/08 05:33:47


Post by: Eldenfirefly


This is one reason why if I was using hellbrutes, I would be inclined to make them cheap. At 8 wounds, with no invul or DR, they die quite easily. An expensive hellbrute that dies to two hits of lascannon just isn't worth it.

So, for me, I would equip them with missile launcher and the heavy bolter configuration because its the cheapest. At least if it gets blown up, its not so many points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/08 08:26:21


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm just brainstorming ideas for how to convert myself a good "counts-as" Necrosius. Maybe a regular CSM body or a Plague Marine, with a Grey Knight's force halberd, plus some kind of back banner (which I could make from Greenstuff in a pinch). Although, since his profile references "The Tainted", he might actually break a Death Guard detachment (neutering its legion tactics) unless he's allied in with another detachment (maybe with some Nurgle Daemons perhaps?).

He's been FAQd to have the deathguard keyword.
Still waiting confirmation on what 'The Tainted are meant to be. He's good even if you don't use that ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Join the Death Guard Facebook group and search for Necrosius, there are lots of examples


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/08 17:46:21


Post by: SilverAlien


 Don Savik wrote:
what are we thinking about for helbrute loadouts? long range high damage weaponry (lascannon/missle) is something that a lot of plague units lack, but then again a melee variant might be strong with the exploding vehicle strategem. >_> gah I can't decide.


Power scourge+ twin las is my current choice given our CT. We can actually move and fire at full accuracy at tanks, and honestly your melee ability barely suffers for losing the helbrute fist except vs tanks, who are generally better dealt with using the lascannon as getting into melee with one is a pain right now.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 10:14:49


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Myphitic Blight-haulers .. Biologus Putrifiers.. Plague surgeons .. foetid BLightspawn.. Lots of new units in the codex..


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 10:26:06


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


The Elite slot seems rather crowded - I count 10 choices, 9 if you leave the Beasts out. 5 of these seem to be single characters, though. Not sure about Foul Blightspawn, could also be the beast from the big picture.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 16:51:22


Post by: SilverAlien


So, anyone see anything that jumps out at them in the new info?

Personally, the new blight haulers look very useful to me. Gives us some more anti armor outside the HS slot and has a really solid aura ability that works well with PMs. I can see them trundling up the field with some plasma and melee PM while blight crawlers provide covering fire.

I also agree the elite slot is crowded but, honestly, I can't say I find most of those units very useful. Deathshroud looks like a one per army choice at best, I struggle to imagine using half the characters, tallyman is probably a one per army unless you run a lot of melee units. It's the most crowded slot yet seems to have very few options which grab me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 16:52:27


Post by: Captyn_Bob


It all looks good. Just.. finding efficiency will be the challenge


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 16:56:19


Post by: SilverAlien


Captyn_Bob wrote:
It all looks good. Just.. finding efficiency will be the challenge


I'm trying to decide if any of the new elite units, outside tallyman, actually justify their cost with their kinda situational auras.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 16:58:30


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Crawlers and Haulers seem solid. Mowers maybe too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 17:16:26


Post by: Vortenger


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm just brainstorming ideas for how to convert myself a good "counts-as" Necrosius. Maybe a regular CSM body or a Plague Marine, with a Grey Knight's force halberd, plus some kind of back banner (which I could make from Greenstuff in a pinch). Although, since his profile references "The Tainted", he might actually break a Death Guard detachment (neutering its legion tactics) unless he's allied in with another detachment (maybe with some Nurgle Daemons perhaps?).

He's been FAQd to have the deathguard keyword.
Still waiting confirmation on what 'The Tainted are meant to be. He's good even if you don't use that ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Join the Death Guard Facebook group and search for Necrosius, there are lots of examples


The Tainted appears to be the name a vectorium of DG, just a subsidiary warband so the full legion's worth of marines aren't all wearing the same olive drab green. Look to Skulltakers subsidiary warband of WE as another example.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 17:39:01


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Yeah I get that but what rules do we use. There's no successor chapter rules like space marines have


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 19:27:13


Post by: drbored


I really like the look and strategy of the Myphitic Blight Haulers.

7" aura that your unit bust be in completely, but you're treated as if you're in cover. With a 10" move, that's pretty easy to accomplish. They come stock with a missile launcher and melta gun, as well as another blight weapon, so plenty of anti-tank shots. They have another special rule that requires there to be at least 3 of them in the unit, so I'm guessing they can be taken in units of 1-5 or something, at about 80 points a pop? Not too bad for some good mobile cover and anti-tank weapons, with lots of wounds and disgustingly resilient.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 20:11:37


Post by: mario88826


THIS CODEX !!!!

GODLIKE.

I won't field gak like Poxwalkers ... but those fast attack choices. Those terminators.

I'm in love completly.

I must say - i'm shocked that we actually got another demon Engine. Thanks GW.

Btw CC Bloat Drone with some stratagems , herald and putrefaction spell can Kill ANYTHING ALONE.

Like wtf 9 attacks , rerolling all hits (stratagem). Wounding everything on 2+, rerolling 1's. On 5s 6's dealing mortal wounds on top of dealing 4 DAMAGE EACH HIT - with spell from herald .

It's like ... Lord of war level of damage output.

I'm so hyped and my wallet cries big time. As I will go on massive buying spree !!

I back all my words that DG are not good.

who even needs plague marines/poxwalkers anway with all those possibilites for valid termicide/outrider <3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
It all looks good. Just.. finding efficiency will be the challenge


I'm trying to decide if any of the new elite units, outside tallyman, actually justify their cost with their kinda situational auras.


I justify Deathshroud and Blightlords as we speak.

heard about overheating plasma countering terminators? Well they are not countered at all. Wounded on 3+ instead of 2+, invu on 4+ instead of 5+ and DR. Overheat your plasma all you want - won't stop those guys at all.

Like why even take Plague Marine if you can take 2 wounds , cataphractii 2+/4++ , 2 attacks , teleport strike Termicide gods. 19 for plague marine 38 for this dude ... and he dishes 2x many attacks in cc and is many times more durable with cata armor and 2 wounds. And much more mobile.
Only downside he is elite not troops ... doesn't matter, vanguard !

And yes i justify 38 points per model compared to Chaos Terminators any day. Not on Plague marines vs normal marines though.

Seems with drones and those Myphitic stuff and excellent Crawler - it's going to be Mech Nurgle with terminators huehue.
I definitelly can't see myself footsloging useless poxes when you have so much other good stuff there.
Sure if i don't field troops - less CPs , but screw it!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 20:40:34


Post by: SilverAlien


Eh I'm kinda iffy on deathshroud, the only way I see to use them well is load them in a land raider, and that's not great. But yeah blight lords look solid.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 20:55:24


Post by: mario88826


SilverAlien wrote:
Eh I'm kinda iffy on deathshroud, the only way I see to use them well is load them in a land raider, and that's not great. But yeah blight lords look solid.


Yeah imagine only 10 points for flail of corruption on PM it's okay with D3 hits for 1 attack.

On Blightlord it's 2D3 hits with damage spilling so you can kill up to 12 infantry models in one turn with THAT.

I'm mean i'm seriously overexcited but for a reason.

I don't see reason to pay 6 points over marine to get plague marine but i see hundreds of reasons to pay 7 points more for Blightlords. Those guys basically laugh at hellblasters .

OH hellblaster vs chaos termie : to wound 5/6 to get through armor 2/3 so 10/18 to kill when they hit (depending if they reroll) so around 55%
OH Hellblaster vs blightlord : to wound 2/3, armor 1/2 , gotta fail DR twice so 2/3 * 2/3 = 8/54= 4/27 ~~ 14,8% and they gotta hit me first and not blow themself up in process.

yep that is right it's that massive difference, vs lascannons and such also massive boost in resilience.

Basically once you cast miasma on blob of 10 - your opponent will not be able to remove them with any means - including mortal wounds since they ignore 33% of them aswell.

Gotta like order 2 boxes of those LORDS.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 21:07:58


Post by: BoomWolf


Doesn't matter-vanguard?
ObjSec wins games mate.

Good elites is good, but you can't skimp on troops.
Fortunately, plagues appear to be good.


Wait...death guard has an ObjSec varaint, right?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 21:23:54


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Sure do


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 21:34:52


Post by: mario88826


Was doing some math, but lost count when realised Mortarion can do 150ish or more wounds with all his stuff. Maybe even up to 200 in single turn ... Not joking at all. Though that needs some serious setup.But yeah

Honestly even though now I sold my heart to Nurgle - i must say he is a bit OP ... but shhhhhhhhhhh.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 22:19:10


Post by: SilverAlien


What sort of insane logic give you 150 wounds even as potential? Lantern firing through like 10 units or something?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 22:30:44


Post by: Brian888


mario88826 wrote:
Was doing some math, but lost count when realised Mortarion can do 150ish or more wounds with all his stuff. Maybe even up to 200 in single turn ... Not joking at all. Though that needs some serious setup.But yeah

Honestly even though now I sold my heart to Nurgle - i must say he is a bit OP ... but shhhhhhhhhhh.


How can he pull that off?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 23:33:31


Post by: BoomWolf


Well, I guess if you shove as many single-model-units as humanly possible within his range you can get pretty far.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/09 23:37:50


Post by: stratigo


mortarion is fragile and slow.

I'll be honest, of the things in the DG codex, I don't rate him. Not compared to his brothers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 06:26:34


Post by: mario88826


stratigo wrote:
mortarion is fragile and slow.

I'll be honest, of the things in the DG codex, I don't rate him. Not compared to his brothers.


It all comes up to who goes first. If DG player goes first - he is actually unbeatable force - he can cast miasma upon himself ... it's gg. Noone sane will ever attempt Ohing plasma vs him and without OH it's nothing. Lascannons still dangerous but now hitting on 4+ not rerolling 3's even with Guilliman.

And he got biggest damage potential of all MODELS including stompas / titan knights - he can reach ridiculous areas of 200ish wounds per turn.

And let's not forget that it's not so easy to actually spam powers/smite on him - 3x deny holy molly.

Initially I was disappointed with him. Actually I still think he can get dunked if DG aint going first against some heavy Lascannon line. But then again in any other case I can't see him going down.

I used to think Guilliman / Magnus will be stronger than him, but they are nowhere near. Actually I can say he can wipe both Magnus and Guilliman in one turn. Regardless of thier invu saves. As long as his putrescent blade will go off on himself . Then do not use 16str attacks, becuse you wound them on 2+ anyway 18 attacks , each hitting on 2+(rerolling 1's , against guilliman probably around 21-22 attacks with DTFE) , wounding on 2"s rerolling 1's (on 6's or 5's depending on setup mortal wounds/double damage) . So yeah not even counting his possible smites/ phosphex bomb/lantern/ mortal wounds aura - he can just dunk them in one sweep.

And he is actually nowhere near fragile against stuff like deathhex like Guilliman. He still got DR.

All good since I was not sure if I want to buy him, now well not reason not to .


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 09:27:15


Post by: rvd1ofakind


He should've been T8 to be on par with Magnus(at least on paper). But being close second best isn't bad. Also you can cast warptime on him with a DP or sorc and get him in the fun turn one.
He has upsides of being a much better unit vs hordes(And he does a little more damage in general) and if you have 6 spare CP - warptime in, shooting phase 3cp explosion, fighting phase explosion, opponent shooting phase explosion, opponent fighting phase explosion. It is probably not viable at all, but good god, I want to do it

I do with he had a little less damage but T8 because a Nurgle primarch should be tougher than the Tzeentch... but isn't :/


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 10:40:44


Post by: mario88826


 rvd1ofakind wrote:
He should've been T8 to be on par with Magnus(at least on paper). But being close second best isn't bad. Also you can cast warptime on him with a DP or sorc and get him in the fun turn one.
He has upsides of being a much better unit vs hordes(And he does a little more damage in general) and if you have 6 spare CP - warptime in, shooting phase 3cp explosion, fighting phase explosion, opponent shooting phase explosion, opponent fighting phase explosion. It is probably not viable at all, but good god, I want to do it

I do with he had a little less damage but T8 because a Nurgle primarch should be tougher than the Tzeentch... but isn't :/


I was the one of biggest pestimists about DG stuff in start and especially about Mortarion in his preview version. But now ... I think he is whole level above both Magnus and Guiliman and rightfully priced above both of his brothers.
He may not be as tough as I was expecting but his offensive potential is higher than Magnus/Guilliman COMBINED. Potential doesn't mean it always throw around 200+ wounds per turn. But being even just able to reach such numbers alone makes him league of his own.
And I'm not talking about D3 mortal wounds aura ... no no - it's minor part of his true potential. But gotta cast this putrescent blades on himself. Which is shame. Because if you cast it on him you can't cast it on deathsroud/blightlords/cc bloat drone.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 10:46:29


Post by: rvd1ofakind


I meant he's on almost on par with magnus on pts/performance. If they were equal pts, Mortarion would obviously be better. As of right now, I'm puting Magnus in front by a bit. I could easily see Mortarion being better than Magnus in practice. I'm a very big fan of Mathammer but Martarion is so disruptive and game-changing with his auras, that we'll just have to see...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 11:59:52


Post by: snottlebocket


How are plague bearers and nurglings in 40k? I just started 40k with the dark imperium boxed set but I have bucket lots of plague bearers and nurglings from my fantasy days.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 12:05:55


Post by: mario88826


snottlebocket wrote:
How are plague bearers and nurglings in 40k? I just started 40k with the dark imperium boxed set but I have bucket lots of plague bearers and nurglings from my fantasy days.


Well sadly they are more like good for Demons of Chaos army than DG. Why ? If you bring them to same detachment - you lose legion trait and stratagems etc.

But that being said - you can still summon them and/or bring Demon Nurgle Detachment along with DG one.

Plaguebearers - super good infantry especially when you field 20 and more as they get -1 to hit in both ranged combat and CC. They are super resilient with invu save and FNP. But somewhat not so deadly in CC unless you bring herald of nurgle (which you should ) to increase thier S to 5 and cast virulent blessing on them.

Nurglings are like deep strike buggers used to tie up tanks and other shooty units. And that is pretty good for thier cost.

They can be surprisingly durable especially against Damage 1 attacks.

Probably you have blight drones aswell if you have nurglings/plaguebearers.

Drones are really close to be MVP - now only 34 points for Movement 10 unit that can both shoot and do some major damage in CC. All that while having T5 4Wounds each , 5+ invu, 5+FNP and that all for just 34 points. You can get unit of 3 for 102 points and they make for fast and durable tarpit that can actually kill something aswell.

Was watching MWG review again and now that I heard that Deathshroud only got 2 wounds - no friggin hell I will take them. Let's be honest they are not more resilient than Blightlords , have less possible weapons setups. Sure they punch harder. But basic setup for them is total 75 points per 2 wound model . I can get Noxious Blightbringer for this price or other elite guys so it's really asking for a lot. Now actually can get plagueburst crawler for 2 deathshroud guys. Sorry not worth it.
Now if they had 3 wounds like Custodes - then we can speak again. As it stands - I will still take them for glorious models , but in tournament they won't fit with being just 2 wounds. They ask me to pay 225 points for 6 wounds there, sure 2+/4++/5++ and T5, but still far from good investment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 16:39:00


Post by: BlueBiscuit


The Deathshroud need either and extra wound, other options, or a price cut.
Compare them with GK Paladins, who at base cost 53 ppm and at their most expensive get cost 73pts for a model with a heavy weapon (psycannon or incinerator) have 3 wounds and are psykers and are in units of 5 (4+paragon). T5 hardly justifies the difference in cost.
Edit: And DR, I guess. But still.

As they are now, I would just always go with Blightlords over Deathshroud.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 16:43:53


Post by: mario88826


BlueBiscuit wrote:
The Deathshroud need either and extra wound, other options, or a price cut.
Compare them with GK Paladins, who at base cost 53 ppm and at their most expensive get cost 73pts for a model with a heavy weapon (psycannon or incinerator) have 3 wounds and are psykers and are in units of 5 (4+paragon). T5 hardly justifies the difference in cost.

As they are now, I would just always go with Blightlords over Deathshroud.


Actually that is fairly okay as psycannon or incinerator are not damn manreaper ... Manreaper is MANReaper . No seriously weapon itself is pretty damn good and they have pistol flamer aswell.

So maybe that is okay cost after all.
As GK Paladin is nowhere near Deathsroud and still can cost just 2 points less.

Edit - yeah I was looking at Paladins now in Battlescribe - nothing special .Sure they got 3 wounds instead of 2 like Deathshroud but thier invu is 5+ , thier S/T is 4 not 5 and they don't have feel no pain. Psyker bs won't make up for all this stuff.

Plain and simple deathshroud is more elite unit than Paladins.
Now that I think about it maybe 3 wounds would make them too op. But with 2 they also look squishy. But then again you can expect to dish more damage from them than you would get from those Paladins so it's okay.

But I agree with Blightlords looking just better. Especially that Blightlords don't need ride to deal damage(can equip ranged dakka and cc weapons). As if you rely on deep strike charge 27% and you pay 225 points for 3 guys haha. Then you better deepstrike chaos sorcerer with warp time too.

Even then still need to make 5" - would be funny as hell to fail it .


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 16:48:02


Post by: BlueBiscuit


What are the stats on the Deathshroud manreaper again?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 16:55:17


Post by: mario88826


BlueBiscuit wrote:
What are the stats on the Deathshroud manreaper again?


Who knows For sure it's +3Strenght and AP -3 and damage and it's plague weapon. No penalty to hitting etc.

But actually idk what is WS of Deathsroud and idk if damage is Flat 3 damage or D3 roll. Normal Manreaper on Typhus is Flat 3 damage.

They said at MWG it's D3 roll , but they made some mistakes in thier review already. Like they said typhus had D3 roll damage before , when he always was flat 3.

Either someone clarifies or we have to wait till we get our hands on codex .

You said T5 is not enough with 2 wounds , but T5 and FNP AND INVU on 4+ ... gotta say they are not less resilient than Paladins. And they deal more damage. Especially as 3 of them can shoot even in CC pistol for 3d6 hits plague weapon so ... if they are close to morty or other warlord with archcontaminator - then they can reroll all failed wound rolls on this autohitting pistols. That can actually dish some damage especially against some low armor targets.
There is no doubt that Paladins are nowhere near Deathsroud in terms of damage output. And it's questionable if 1 wound beats 5T/4++ invu and FNP. I would say Paladins lose in that regard aswell.

But they don't have movement at 4 and advancing is not halved.

Basically I like Deathshroud but I'm afraid they will be kited forever against armies that don't want to be in CC - tau / anygunlines. Unless you bring sorecer to warp them or LandRaider. And i really don't like how much points i spend on 3 guys and ride ~~580ish ? Sure LandRaider is not just ride so maybe it's worth... Maybe.

Need to test. I will get them ANYWAY since models are great .

Your comparison kinda made me look on GK's and hell they are unimpressive - thier normal terminators kinda look like joke compared to Blightlords. But then again they can take them as troops (imagine blightlords being troops haha).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:08:28


Post by: BlueBiscuit


So I'm seeing here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJSis6ePay0
That the statline for Blightlords and Deathshroud is identical, their only difference are the +1A to characters on the Deathshroud and the "6+ to wound add -1 AP" for the BL, as well as the more varied loadout options.

So I don't see how you can justify the point difference between Deathshroud and Blightlords.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:12:05


Post by: mario88826


BlueBiscuit wrote:
So I'm seeing here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJSis6ePay0
That the statline for Blightlords and Deathshroud is identical, their only difference are the +1A to characters on the Deathshroud and the "6+ to wound add -1 AP" for the BL, as well as the more varied loadout options.

So I don't see how you can justify the point difference between Deathshroud and Blightlords.


Well there is other stuff , they have base strenght of 5 aswell not just +1A. Also access to different stuff . And they can intercept wounds on characters including morty. AND they actually can have 4 attacks and 5 on champion if there is character nearby or so.

And I can't really say that 4 S8 AP-3 D3 Plague weapons swings is nothing.

There is one thing we don't know aswell - actually Deathshroud have if I heard correct - 3 different setups or so, so who knows maybe they can have something else. Really hard to say.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:14:07


Post by: BlueBiscuit


Blightlords, at least according to that review, also have S5 3A and can intercept wounds for DG characters. They don't get manreapers and can't give +1 attack to characters, but that's it apparently.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:21:53


Post by: dan2026


Deathshrouds can intercept hits intended for Morty.

If you are bringing the big man you probably want some of these too to make sure he gets where he's going.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:35:23


Post by: BlueBiscuit


 dan2026 wrote:
Deathshrouds can intercept hits intended for Morty.

If you are bringing the big man you probably want some of these too to make sure he gets where he's going.

So can the Blightlords.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:36:46


Post by: dan2026


BlueBiscuit wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
Deathshrouds can intercept hits intended for Morty.

If you are bringing the big man you probably want some of these too to make sure he gets where he's going.

So can the Blightlords.


This is wrong. Only the Deathshrouds get that rule.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 17:50:43


Post by: BlueBiscuit


Hmm, yeah you're right. I had muted the video because I couldn't stand the guys voice, but actually listening to him he admits he made a mistake and copy and pasted it.

Still, if all the Deathshroud are good for is being meatshields for Mortarion, a high point investment himself, then I still think the Blightlords are the better options 90% of the time,


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:02:20


Post by: dan2026


BlueBiscuit wrote:
Hmm, yeah you're right. I had muted the video because I couldn't stand the guys voice, but actually listening to him he admits he made a mistake and copy and pasted it.

Still, if all the Deathshroud are good for is being meatshields for Mortarion, a high point investment himself, then I still think the Blightlords are the better options 90% of the time,


Well they are meatshields for any Death Guard character within 3" in shooting and melee.
They could potentially protect many characters at once.
I don't know how valuable that will end up being.

They also get strong melee and solid overwatch with their plague hand flamers.
They may not live to see combat though if they are defending everyone else.
Depends how far a 2+ a 4++ and a DR save get them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:37:26


Post by: mario88826


BlueBiscuit wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
Deathshrouds can intercept hits intended for Morty.

If you are bringing the big man you probably want some of these too to make sure he gets where he's going.

So can the Blightlords.


No they for 100% can't intercept and I don't know where you got info they have 3 attacks .

But then again ... even though Deathshroud are durable. I'm not that really sure I want them to intercept multi wound hits. Those guys are 75 pts. They are actually more expensive per wound than Morty lol ... Easy math they cost 37.5 points per wound while morty is like 426/18 ~~23,6 per wound.
I would intercept low ap hits though, since they get 2+ base not 3+. Same for other characters. I would intercept all AP-1 / AP 0 shoots for characters ... and mostly let through rest unless it would be obvious they will hit something that is very important to me (warlord - doesn't have to be always Morty - in fact in smaller games it will be something else.)

I think blightlords are better choice than Deathshroud BlueBiscuit , but you got misinformed somewhere - they have other nice rule - actually VERY nice. No interceptions no 3 attacks. Bonus -1 AP can be even triggered on 4+ with veteran of long war and putrescent blades. And that is pretty big oh and they would mortal wounds on 5+ there aswell hehe. So they are super good target for this spell/stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BlueBiscuit wrote:
Hmm, yeah you're right. I had muted the video because I couldn't stand the guys voice, but actually listening to him he admits he made a mistake and copy and pasted it.

Still, if all the Deathshroud are good for is being meatshields for Mortarion, a high point investment himself, then I still think the Blightlords are the better options 90% of the time,


Interception ain't useless and if I heard well they got 4 attacks and 5 on champion with character nearby.

And now we are talking. In this setup they dish more damage per point than Blightlord, but are less resilient per point. So it's not really that one dimensional contest.

Keep in Mind Blightlords can't take meaty 2h weapon and take plague flamer pistol at same time.
Since they will often be near morty/or other warlord with arch contaminator. We can easily assume that pistol even though S3 will wound mostly on 5's but reroll ALL wound rolls.
So we are speaking about 3d6 auto hits there that actually can really butcher bunch of boys or other stuff trying to tarpit you.
Pistol that autohits and you can also shoot hit in CC. Powerful overwatch although 6" range only.

I'm still more into Blightlords, but I can't say Deathshroud suck. Blightlords are just THAT good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:43:25


Post by: luke1705


Ok so let's calm down. Mortarion isn't going to deal 200 wounds a turn. Ever. He's likely to deal 10-15 wounds a turn in CC, maybe 4-8 mortal wounds due to his aura, and likely 3 wounds from his pistol (not every model is a multi wound model).

So on average, MAYBE he does 100 wounds over the course of a game. Likely will do a little closer to 120-150 if the game goes 7 turns and if you take morale into account.

That being said, he is absolutely the best thing in the death guard codex. He can get -2 to hit and so should not be dying any time soon. If he does, your army simply doesn't have enough other threats.

There's a lot to love with the death guard codex. I don't think that pure death guard will likely be super competitive, but they will definitely win a lot of games. Very good army, and even better if you combine with normal CSM


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:45:05


Post by: crnaguja


So, if I understand this correctly... biologus + plauge marines + strategem that gives whole unit to shoot grenades = profit???
I love this crazy longshot combos. Would like to try it, just to see opponents face when I pull it off... even if I could pull it off only once in a dozen games


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:47:10


Post by: mario88826


 luke1705 wrote:
Ok so let's calm down. Mortarion isn't going to deal 200 wounds a turn. Ever. He's likely to deal 10-15 wounds a turn in CC, maybe 4-8 mortal wounds due to his aura, and likely 3 wounds from his pistol (not every model is a multi wound model).

So on average, MAYBE he does 100 wounds over the course of a game. Likely will do a little closer to 120-150 if the game goes 7 turns and if you take morale into account.

That being said, he is absolutely the best thing in the death guard codex. He can get -2 to hit and so should not be dying any time soon. If he does, your army simply doesn't have enough other threats.

There's a lot to love with the death guard codex. I don't think that pure death guard will likely be super competitive, but they will definitely win a lot of games. Very good army, and even better if you combine with normal CSM


Huh I said he got potential to do, not that he will deal 200 wounds . So you actually need to calm down there .

I agree though with your argument about Mortarion resilience. Now we have tons of other targets THAT DEMAND attention of enemy lascannons / plasma. Namely best terminators , plagueburst crawlers, bloat drones, haulers to name few. You just can't ignore Plagueburst crawler with damn mortar and 2 entropic cannons who are almost same like lascannons and this another gun i dont know what it does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 crnaguja wrote:
So, if I understand this correctly... biologus + plauge marines + strategem that gives whole unit to shoot grenades = profit???
I love this crazy longshot combos. Would like to try it, just to see opponents face when I pull it off... even if I could pull it off only once in a dozen games


Sadly not exactly, as if I remember you can only use stratagem in Overwatch so hiting on 6"s ... which can still be powerful . But no there is no grenade genocide in your shooting phase.
But yeah I wish they could let us do this in shooting phase too. Not like grenades are broken overall in 8th edition. If you get guy to buff you and spend CPs ... it should be powerful.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:53:54


Post by: crnaguja


mario88826 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 crnaguja wrote:
So, if I understand this correctly... biologus + plauge marines + strategem that gives whole unit to shoot grenades = profit???
I love this crazy longshot combos. Would like to try it, just to see opponents face when I pull it off... even if I could pull it off only once in a dozen games


Sadly not exactly, as if I remember you can only use stratagem in Overwatch so hiting on 6"s ... which can still be powerful . But no there is no grenade genocide in your shooting phase.
But yeah I wish they could let us do this in shooting phase too. Not like grenades are broken overall in 8th edition. If you get guy to buff you and spend CPs ... it should be powerful.


No, its shooting or overwatch
Throw in arch contaminator for those rerolls for some extra flavor


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:55:24


Post by: luke1705


mario88826 wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
Ok so let's calm down. Mortarion isn't going to deal 200 wounds a turn. Ever. He's likely to deal 10-15 wounds a turn in CC, maybe 4-8 mortal wounds due to his aura, and likely 3 wounds from his pistol (not every model is a multi wound model).

So on average, MAYBE he does 100 wounds over the course of a game. Likely will do a little closer to 120-150 if the game goes 7 turns and if you take morale into account.



Huh I said he got potential to do, not that he will deal 200 wounds . So you actually need to calm down there .



Please describe a single feasible scenario in which this could happen. I'll wait.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 18:58:30


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 luke1705 wrote:
Ok so let's calm down. Mortarion isn't going to deal 200 wounds a turn. Ever. He's likely to deal 10-15 wounds a turn in CC, maybe 4-8 mortal wounds due to his aura, and likely 3 wounds from his pistol (not every model is a multi wound model).

So on average, MAYBE he does 100 wounds over the course of a game. Likely will do a little closer to 120-150 if the game goes 7 turns and if you take morale into account.

That being said, he is absolutely the best thing in the death guard codex. He can get -2 to hit and so should not be dying any time soon. If he does, your army simply doesn't have enough other threats.

There's a lot to love with the death guard codex. I don't think that pure death guard will likely be super competitive, but they will definitely win a lot of games. Very good army, and even better if you combine with normal CSM


I suspect list building for competitive Chaos SM will definitely steal Mortarion, as he's a terrific threat. He'll be used similarly to Magnus, and with support casters from CSM and Nurgle Daemons... he can be an amazing threat.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:09:53


Post by: Hive City Dweller


Interesting to see all the rules released so far. I have a few questions about old Chaos units used in the army.

1) Do you see a role for defilers? Seems to me they provide useful long-range shooting (something that's generally lacking in codex) and some durability and can be a threat up close.

2) What do you guys think about Cultists? Yes they're cheaper than pox-walkers, and yes they have access to shooting attacks but they don't benefit from a lot of the special rules that the pox walkers do. The best role I see them in is bubble wrap for the artillery tank in the backfield.

3) How do you guys feel about Predator tanks? I've never used them before and they seem decent choice on paper. Is there any shortcoming to using them for long range fire support?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:12:00


Post by: luke1705


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


I suspect list building for competitive Chaos SM will definitely steal Mortarion, as he's a terrific threat. He'll be used similarly to Magnus, and with support casters from CSM and Nurgle Daemons... he can be an amazing threat.


Can confirm. Have 3 different variants of my competitive CSM list, all of which include him.

If you want real praise for Mortarion, I'm considering dropping Magnus if I have to choose only 1 of them because I believe that Mortarion is better suited to the current meta.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:18:33


Post by: Captyn_Bob


mario88826 wrote:
. I would intercept all AP-1 / AP 0 shoots for characters ... and mostly let through rest unless it would be obvious they will hit something that is very important to me (warlord - doesn't have to be always Morty - in fact in smaller games it will be something else.)


Looking at the exact wording, I don't think intercepting is optional. Reduces the versatility somewhat.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:20:55


Post by: luke1705


 Hive City Dweller wrote:


2) What do you guys think about Cultists? Yes they're cheaper than pox-walkers, and yes they have access to shooting attacks but they don't benefit from a lot of the special rules that the pox walkers do. The best role I see them in is bubble wrap for the artillery tank in the backfield.



Step 1: Take a squad of poxwalkers in a DG Detachment, and 1-2 max size cultist squads in another detachment (pure CSM)

Step 2) Use 1 CP to make a unit of poxwalkers untargetable and another to turn on their mega death ability, and put the cultists beside them. If your opponent shoots the cultists, you gain a poxwalker for every cultist that dies. There's no counterplay to this other than not shooting the cultists (I'm ok with you not shooting 40-80 cultists) since the poxwalkers are being shielded by the cultists.

Step 3) Eventually your cultists die, either because your opponent shot at them or you got to cc. Now all of those 4 point cultists have been converted to 6 point poxwalkers, each of which are Str 5 and T5 (thanks typhus!). Oh and you have around 80-100 poxwalkers instead of the 20 you paid for originally.

Step 4) Add insult to injury. Pay 2 CP to resuscitate a squad of cultists and have them stand next to the poxwalkers again


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:22:50


Post by: mario88826


 luke1705 wrote:
mario88826 wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
Ok so let's calm down. Mortarion isn't going to deal 200 wounds a turn. Ever. He's likely to deal 10-15 wounds a turn in CC, maybe 4-8 mortal wounds due to his aura, and likely 3 wounds from his pistol (not every model is a multi wound model).

So on average, MAYBE he does 100 wounds over the course of a game. Likely will do a little closer to 120-150 if the game goes 7 turns and if you take morale into account.



Huh I said he got potential to do, not that he will deal 200 wounds . So you actually need to calm down there .



Please describe a single feasible scenario in which this could happen. I'll wait.


"Feasible" - hell no - i never said those 200 wounds were practically easy to pull off. But you asked for it, so here we go .

Oh well first of all clumping around him enough units to get damaged you aura can dish xx wounds easily. Then again through 18" can hit few targets with lantern or deal UP TO (not saying he will) 12 wounds with phosphex bombs(i will go with lantern though). Then attacks some IMPERIUM blob .
Procs 18x DTFE (remember you wanted just theory that could occur with some 0,00000000001% probability but still) . So 36 hits now things start to be interesting there. He needs both putrescent blades on him and virulent blessing (he is viable target as he is both Demon and Nurgle).
That makes each of his wound on 5s and 6's to deal mortal wound in addition to normal damage. So here is your !! possible !! another 36 wounds. But thats not all on 5's and 6's he deals double damage. So he deals 36 MW's and 72 damage from normal damage. In fact he didn't even need to roll 6's there 5+ is enough .

So alone from Silence possible 108 wounds (haha I know it's perfect scenario but YOU ASKED FOR IT) - probably can deal more with some Dark Hereticus spell. But that is why I said he can "theoretically " deal even more than 200 . So don't ask me for just 200 !
From pistol you lets say got another 18 - i can easily line up 6 or EVEN more units in 18" line. The he plague winds some 18" away blob of 30 models to death . That is 30 wounds more.
So we roll already 156 wounds (remember we could get more from both silence and pistol !). 7 More wounds from the other new spell and 6 wounds from smite (buff spells were casted on him by herald of nurgle and some DG psyker).
And after that I can easily assume in some slowed setup there is enough small enough units to fit within 7" to get our missing 37 wounds. Actually that is easier part.

So like I said, probably can do way more. But thats all pure theory .

I NEVER SAID he will do as many wounds EVER.
But He CAN , that is point . And noone else can even get close to that.
Of course I can imagine what kind of % there is just to plague wind 30 guys 30 rolls of 6 .

So if you use some imagination bro - probably you can deal more ... you just lack imagination

Ok he can explode at end of his turn due to damage he received in let's say Fight phase to get even more wounds around. So yeah 200 is not even best that is possible .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 luke1705 wrote:
 Hive City Dweller wrote:


2) What do you guys think about Cultists? Yes they're cheaper than pox-walkers, and yes they have access to shooting attacks but they don't benefit from a lot of the special rules that the pox walkers do. The best role I see them in is bubble wrap for the artillery tank in the backfield.



Step 1: Take a squad of poxwalkers in a DG Detachment, and 1-2 max size cultist squads in another detachment (pure CSM)

Step 2) Use 1 CP to make a unit of poxwalkers untargetable and another to turn on their mega death ability, and put the cultists beside them. If your opponent shoots the cultists, you gain a poxwalker for every cultist that dies. There's no counterplay to this other than not shooting the cultists (I'm ok with you not shooting 40-80 cultists) since the poxwalkers are being shielded by the cultists.

Step 3) Eventually your cultists die, either because your opponent shot at them or you got to cc. Now all of those 4 point cultists have been converted to 6 point poxwalkers, each of which are Str 5 and T5 (thanks typhus!). Oh and you have around 80-100 poxwalkers instead of the 20 you paid for originally.

Step 4) Add insult to injury. Pay 2 CP to resuscitate a squad of cultists and have them stand next to the poxwalkers again


I was thinking about it , but here is catch - you can get as many poxwalkers as long as they "heal" unit up to it's original number of models. At least in matched play. Otherwise you would have to pay for those poxwalkers.
Unless it will be clarified otherwise by FAQ. So not really - you cannot make pox unit bigger than 20 (that was thier max ?)

Let me remind you that even making random chaos spawn via some spell or via some item - you still have to pay for this spawn. (example TS spell bolt of change or so).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:56:37


Post by: Captyn_Bob


You don't pay for poxwalkers, and they can go above maximum.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 19:57:31


Post by: Virules


Lots of wrong ideas and bad math in this thread. No, Morty can't even theoretically do 200 or whatever wounds in a turn. Even assuming you somehow got into 1" of 2 or 3 big units that could eat those theoretical extra attacks on Silence, that means you aren't close enough to individuals units to stack his mortal wound aura or shoot with his pistol for a lot more wounds. So in terms of spacing of models on the board, you will max out on being able to do 30-60 wounds in a turn in the very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances.

Also, there is no rule keeping poxwalkers from going above the starting strength of the number of models you are allowed to include in the unit when fielding them in your list. The unit can go to infinite size.

There is also no way to get -2 to hit on Morty, sorry.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 20:13:25


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


 luke1705 wrote:
 Hive City Dweller wrote:


2) What do you guys think about Cultists? Yes they're cheaper than pox-walkers, and yes they have access to shooting attacks but they don't benefit from a lot of the special rules that the pox walkers do. The best role I see them in is bubble wrap for the artillery tank in the backfield.



Step 1: Take a squad of poxwalkers in a DG Detachment, and 1-2 max size cultist squads in another detachment (pure CSM)

Step 2) Use 1 CP to make a unit of poxwalkers untargetable and another to turn on their mega death ability, and put the cultists beside them. If your opponent shoots the cultists, you gain a poxwalker for every cultist that dies. There's no counterplay to this other than not shooting the cultists (I'm ok with you not shooting 40-80 cultists) since the poxwalkers are being shielded by the cultists.

Step 3) Eventually your cultists die, either because your opponent shot at them or you got to cc. Now all of those 4 point cultists have been converted to 6 point poxwalkers, each of which are Str 5 and T5 (thanks typhus!). Oh and you have around 80-100 poxwalkers instead of the 20 you paid for originally.

Step 4) Add insult to injury. Pay 2 CP to resuscitate a squad of cultists and have them stand next to the poxwalkers again


This looks so mean! Thats gonna be one crazy zombie hoard. Bring typhus and necrosius and it will get insane!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 20:16:11


Post by: luke1705


 Virules wrote:


Also, there is no rule keeping poxwalkers from going above the starting strength of the number of models you are allowed to include in the unit when fielding them in your list. The unit can go to infinite size.

There is also no way to get -2 to hit on Morty, sorry.


Correct on the poxwalkers.

Good catch on the no -2 for Morty. I didn't notice that the miasma of pestilence had the same name in the CSM book and the DG book. I guess that'll be the MO going forward with 1ksons too. Can expect to see the Tzeentch power ported over to their dex. That being said, I'm fine with him just self casting -1 to hit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 20:16:28


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 Virules wrote:

There is also no way to get -2 to hit on Morty, sorry.

It can be done in the fight phase.. Miasma of Pestilence for -1 and within 6" of Skabiethrax for another -1 in the fight phase


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 20:18:23


Post by: luke1705


TasadarTheMadBear wrote:


This looks so mean! Thats gonna be one crazy zombie hoard. Bring typhus and necrosius and it will get insane!


Definitely not a casual strat. Typhus and the psychic power will make the poxwalkers str 5 T 5 when it matters.

Would definitely bring the Surgeon instead of Necrosius. Add in the tally man to re-roll their hits...ouch!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 20:51:56


Post by: mario88826


 Virules wrote:
Lots of wrong ideas and bad math in this thread. No, Morty can't even theoretically do 200 or whatever wounds in a turn. Even assuming you somehow got into 1" of 2 or 3 big units that could eat those theoretical extra attacks on Silence, that means you aren't close enough to individuals units to stack his mortal wound aura or shoot with his pistol for a lot more wounds. So in terms of spacing of models on the board, you will max out on being able to do 30-60 wounds in a turn in the very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances.

Also, there is no rule keeping poxwalkers from going above the starting strength of the number of models you are allowed to include in the unit when fielding them in your list. The unit can go to infinite size.

There is also no way to get -2 to hit on Morty, sorry.


Oh well even with math shoved right onto paper some people just can't accept it. OKay in fact he can do way more. Just lineup 25mm -28mm base character in line to increase pistol damage.
And few more hidden gems - +2 S +1A can dish another 18 wounds on silence. And getting like 13 units within 7" is easy as hell .

I can get 30 wounds just from plague wind. You are deluded not to see theoretical possiblity for way more than your 30-60 wounds ...
And plague wind is just smaller part ... from psychic powrs alone 43 wounds ... 7 for new contagion spell and 6 from smite. I DON'T EVEN NEED TO USE Silence at all to get more than 60 wounds which is is your so-called "very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances."


You don't know your stuff buddy go read rules for plague wind alone to see where just minor part of this possible damage comes.

Also bad math - then show me yours , I have proper one here. 43 wounds from spells not counting aura/ phosphex/pistol/Silence other possible damage (yeah there are such possiblites)

With pistol and spells alone I break your weirdo theory.

And i love how easily some people get triggered by some theoretical scenarios. It was just to show potential of Morty - not that it's easy to actually apply all that damage.

It's like IRL it's easy to win at lotto lottery - you just have to draw correct numbers. Now chance for this to happen ... But still such potential does exist and result is staggering . Just like amounts of wounds I calculated there.
Idk how you can't get over it. You must be boring IRL as hell.

And on top of that you never heard about conga-line of units ? for me it's enough if just line of blob gets within my CC range, everyone else can be 20"away - I don't care and they will die in CC. Makes no logic ? Well doesn't need to but those are rules of this game you DO NOT KNOW.
Also plenty of possible wounds don't even need to be in CC range but pistol or spells which increases ownzone to 18" (I can plague wind unit as long as i see SINGLE model within 18" of Morty to reap 30 wounds).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 20:52:06


Post by: Virules


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 Virules wrote:

There is also no way to get -2 to hit on Morty, sorry.

It can be done in the fight phase.. Miasma of Pestilence for -1 and within 6" of Skabiethrax for another -1 in the fight phase


Sure, but people seemed to all be talking about getting a general -2 to hit because they thought there were two different psychic powers, but the CSM one is the same as the DG one.

I use Scabby and I like getting -2 to hit in melee, but realistically Morty needs no help in melee but can get shot out of the sky, so dumping a huge amount of more points into a guy that can't even keep up with morty doesn't help much.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 21:17:50


Post by: drbored


Can't wait to see lists that have Mortarion and Magnus for double brother punching power. Better yet, take a couple of Supreme Command Detachments to get both of those LoW in there along with a bunch of buffing characters. Fill last of the points with cultists and poxwalkers. Shenanigans ensue.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 22:00:55


Post by: luke1705


mario88826 wrote:


Oh well even with math shoved right onto paper some people just can't accept it. OKay in fact he can do way more. Just lineup 25mm -28mm base character in line to increase pistol damage.
And few more hidden gems - +2 S +1A can dish another 18 wounds on silence. And getting like 13 units within 7" is easy as hell .

I can get 30 wounds just from plague wind. You are deluded not to see theoretical possiblity for way more than your 30-60 wounds ...
And plague wind is just smaller part ... from psychic powrs alone 43 wounds ... 7 for new contagion spell and 6 from smite. I DON'T EVEN NEED TO USE Silence at all to get more than 60 wounds which is is your so-called "very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances."


You don't know your stuff buddy go read rules for plague wind alone to see where just minor part of this possible damage comes.

Also bad math - then show me yours , I have proper one here. 43 wounds from spells not counting aura/ phosphex/pistol/Silence other possible damage (yeah there are such possiblites)

With pistol and spells alone I break your weirdo theory.


Ok I'm putting this to bed. The ridiculous asssumptions here are going to stop.

Rant and actual math incoming:

Spoiler:


Mortarion can do wounds in the psychic phase, shooting phase, and the assault phase.

In the psychic phase, you can dream that he would do 17 wounds. Realistically, he's casting the -1 to hit power on himself and then blades if he needs it, but let's say you're going all out offensive and using smite and curse of the leper. Against the ideal target (t3 guardsmen or something), you need a 3+ on all 7 dice. That will happen 1 in 20 attempts. But say you get it. Then you smite (roughly a 85% chance to cast). If you're in range to get denied, the math gets tricky based on what you rolled but, on average, you'll get denied roughly 30% of the time that you succeed to cast. Once you've cast, you need to roll high enough to go for a d6 damage smite. That's just under 10%. And then you need to roll a 6. So 1/6 odds. So in nearly 2% of your smite attempts, you'll get to do 6 mortal wounds. In one out of 1000 psychic phases, you will do 13 mortal wounds. On normal turns when you smite and cast a defensive power, you're probably averaging 2 mortal wounds.

In the shooting phase, things can get very ridiculous if you have an opponent that is literally inting and feeding you 3+ wound models. In the dream world, you have a line of 17 different squads who are literally screaming at you to end their existence. (Note that there are very few 3+ wound models that are also on 28mm bases, which is necessary for this strategem). So you've got your friend with an army of nothing but acolytes and inquisitors trying to position in such a way that you can tell the Internet that this actually happened. I'm actually not sure if you need to hit everyone or just your original target, but either way it's actually on average that you'll hit and wound all but one time, even if you hit individually. So toss on 51 more wounds. Never mind that no sane opponent will ever let you line up more than 4 or 5 squads, and that most of those squads will comprise of single wound models, so realistically you're getting a true theoretical maximum of 10 wounds most likely. I think doing 6-7 is a good turn and 4-5 is a good representative average expectation. Tbh, the grenades are probably a better bet against most chaff units. On average, 7 attacks, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 4 dead models in one squad. But the pistol can snipe a character if it has 3 or fewer wounds so that's nice.

The maximum amount of wounds that Mortarion can do in close combat is 18. That is against 5+ save or worse models (or 3+ save models with no invuln, but that are also 3 wounds each, or have more than 18 wounds). His nurglings can add more attacks (6 in a perfect situation) and can on average even wound guardsmen 4-5 times, but they likely will only take 3 wounds after saving throws. So 21 wounds from cc attacks. This is actually not at all terribly unlikely unless you're against MEQ.

Of course, he has his 7" aura ability. I think this is where most of the crazy ideas come in. He can, in theory, do tons of wounds if enough squads are close enough to him in the fight phase. If your opponent packs in 20 units (again inting to feed you) within 7", then 10 of them will suffer d3 mortal wounds (20 total basically). But we are not deterred by math. Theoretical maximum! I am capping your inting opponent at 20 squads because most armies don't even have that many units, let alone an opponent actually moving that many units into one spot to put you in range. But maybe you roll all 20 4+ rolls. That is actually slightly upwards of a 1 in a million event. Then you need to roll 20 5+ (less than 1 in 100 million odds). But congrats! You've done 60 mortal wounds!

Back to reality, you'll probably be able to position to get 3 or 4 units in range. Let's call it 4. 4+ to proc the ability means 2 units. D3 means 2 on average. So 4 wounds most likely.

So, in a fairy land, with an opponent actively feeding to try and let Mortarion rack up wounds, you could get 124 wounds in a single turn! This will happen once in every 100,000,000,000,000,000 attempts (order of magnitude approximation). To put this in context, if you could attempt this feat every second, in one billion years, you would have, on average, succeeded once.

End rant.



Realistically, I'm actually probably using the grenades if I don't need to snipe a character. That means that I'll get roughly 30 wounds a turn that Mortarion spends in combat. Not terrible, but nowhere near 200.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote:
Can't wait to see lists that have Mortarion and Magnus for double brother punching power. Better yet, take a couple of Supreme Command Detachments to get both of those LoW in there along with a bunch of buffing characters. Fill last of the points with cultists and poxwalkers. Shenanigans ensue.


I've given this a lot of thought, but it's tough to make work. In an ideal world, just use 2 super heavy auxiliary detachments, but you really need 2 battalions for that sweet sweet CP, and most events (even the BRB) only allow 3 detachments at 2k points. 6 CP is just not enough IMO.

If you do a battalion and 1-2 supreme command detachments, you're just a bit too bloated on HQ's IMO. The malefic lords are nice in this regard, but sadly I'm going to an event in October where I can only take 1 Forge World unit. Even if I could take 6, I'm not convinced that I would. Ah who am I kidding that would work really well. Curse you 3 detachment and 0-1 forge world limit!

But yeah big dude(s) plus cultists and poxwalkers will likely be the linchpins of many competitive CSM lists. Will be curious to see how many players omit Magnus in favor of Mortarion.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 22:29:46


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


 luke1705 wrote:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote:


This looks so mean! Thats gonna be one crazy zombie hoard. Bring typhus and necrosius and it will get insane!


Definitely not a casual strat. Typhus and the psychic power will make the poxwalkers str 5 T 5 when it matters.

Would definitely bring the Surgeon instead of Necrosius. Add in the tally man to re-roll their hits...ouch!


The surgeon and tallyman are both elite, I believe, so no reason to not bring them all.

In fact, assuming both the crawler and the hauler are 150 and the elite characters 100 each (and they may be less), you can get the following for roughly 2000: Typhus, Necrosius, chaos lord, tallyman, surgeon, 2 20-strong poxwalkers, 4 10-strong cultist, 3 plague burst cralwers, 1 blight hauler, 2 spawn, and 1 FW dredo dreadnough with a butcher cannon arry AND the hellfire viel. Thats a full brigade! The hellfire viel gives a 5++ within 6" and the hauler gives cover within 7".

EDIT: I got excited and counted the dredo dread as an elite. It can work though, I'm just not there yet.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/10 23:22:07


Post by: DarklyDreaming


 Hive City Dweller wrote:
Interesting to see all the rules released so far. I have a few questions about old Chaos units used in the army.

1) Do you see a role for defilers? Seems to me they provide useful long-range shooting (something that's generally lacking in codex) and some durability and can be a threat up close.

2) What do you guys think about Cultists? Yes they're cheaper than pox-walkers, and yes they have access to shooting attacks but they don't benefit from a lot of the special rules that the pox walkers do. The best role I see them in is bubble wrap for the artillery tank in the backfield.

3) How do you guys feel about Predator tanks? I've never used them before and they seem decent choice on paper. Is there any shortcoming to using them for long range fire support?


1_ unfortunately without the deamon forge stratagem I cannot see a role for him, usually he is the resistent model who soak up fire and take space, but guess what, the whole DG does it.
2_ Exactly, they can afford to stay in the backfield camping objectives and screening the artillery, I can't see better role than that
3_ He s not as though ad the plague crawler but it gives you the anti tank you need, better field a couple helped by the daemon prince, it's the only real anti tank choiche we have


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 02:27:14


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I wonder how deathguard lists will evolve now that the full codex is about to come out, and we know about the new units and such from leaks.

Gunline? The new mortar tank is quite cheap and quite shooty. It can even shoot from out of line of sight. Yet, there is also Mortarion, who works best at close quarters where he is a massive beat stick. On the other hand, if we use Mortarion as the lynchpin of an army, he needs to be supported. So, run him up with other fast units like that new bloat drone with Fleshmower? Teleport blightlord terminators in near him? They cannot take wounds for him though.

Advance stuff up slowly but firing steadily? Backed with Auras, like that new daemon engine has the aura that gives +1 cover. Its a pretty good aura to have. But then again, if we did that, Mortarion wouldn't fit that startegy because he is meant to charge in asap and kill stuff and he moves 12 inches. (But he is almost too good to leave out).

Seems like there are nice synergies in various things, but from an overall strategy perspective, you would be better off focusing on one. I mean, you could try and do a bit of everything, but from my experience, such an army will usually be less efficient and less effective compared to one that focuses on just one aspect.

So, if shooty, then use the mortar tanks, possibly with the new daemon engine and advance up the board shooting. Then plague marines, blightlords, pox walkers might also be part of it. Mortarion might be there more to lend his auras, and to serve as a counter charge force.

If assault focused, then have Mortarion, bloat drones with fleshmowers, possibly plague drones also. And maybe deep strike in blightlord termis.

I see Mortarion as too good not to have in a DG army though. So, always have him if you can.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 02:53:13


Post by: broxus


 luke1705 wrote:
mario88826 wrote:


Oh well even with math shoved right onto paper some people just can't accept it. OKay in fact he can do way more. Just lineup 25mm -28mm base character in line to increase pistol damage.
And few more hidden gems - +2 S +1A can dish another 18 wounds on silence. And getting like 13 units within 7" is easy as hell .

I can get 30 wounds just from plague wind. You are deluded not to see theoretical possiblity for way more than your 30-60 wounds ...
And plague wind is just smaller part ... from psychic powrs alone 43 wounds ... 7 for new contagion spell and 6 from smite. I DON'T EVEN NEED TO USE Silence at all to get more than 60 wounds which is is your so-called "very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances."


You don't know your stuff buddy go read rules for plague wind alone to see where just minor part of this possible damage comes.

Also bad math - then show me yours , I have proper one here. 43 wounds from spells not counting aura/ phosphex/pistol/Silence other possible damage (yeah there are such possiblites)

With pistol and spells alone I break your weirdo theory.


Ok I'm putting this to bed. The ridiculous asssumptions here are going to stop.

Rant and actual math incoming:

Spoiler:


Mortarion can do wounds in the psychic phase, shooting phase, and the assault phase.

In the psychic phase, you can dream that he would do 17 wounds. Realistically, he's casting the -1 to hit power on himself and then blades if he needs it, but let's say you're going all out offensive and using smite and curse of the leper. Against the ideal target (t3 guardsmen or something), you need a 3+ on all 7 dice. That will happen 1 in 20 attempts. But say you get it. Then you smite (roughly a 85% chance to cast). If you're in range to get denied, the math gets tricky based on what you rolled but, on average, you'll get denied roughly 30% of the time that you succeed to cast. Once you've cast, you need to roll high enough to go for a d6 damage smite. That's just under 10%. And then you need to roll a 6. So 1/6 odds. So in nearly 2% of your smite attempts, you'll get to do 6 mortal wounds. In one out of 1000 psychic phases, you will do 13 mortal wounds. On normal turns when you smite and cast a defensive power, you're probably averaging 2 mortal wounds.

In the shooting phase, things can get very ridiculous if you have an opponent that is literally inting and feeding you 3+ wound models. In the dream world, you have a line of 17 different squads who are literally screaming at you to end their existence. (Note that there are very few 3+ wound models that are also on 28mm bases, which is necessary for this strategem). So you've got your friend with an army of nothing but acolytes and inquisitors trying to position in such a way that you can tell the Internet that this actually happened. I'm actually not sure if you need to hit everyone or just your original target, but either way it's actually on average that you'll hit and wound all but one time, even if you hit individually. So toss on 51 more wounds. Never mind that no sane opponent will ever let you line up more than 4 or 5 squads, and that most of those squads will comprise of single wound models, so realistically you're getting a true theoretical maximum of 10 wounds most likely. I think doing 6-7 is a good turn and 4-5 is a good representative average expectation. Tbh, the grenades are probably a better bet against most chaff units. On average, 7 attacks, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 4 dead models in one squad. But the pistol can snipe a character if it has 3 or fewer wounds so that's nice.

The maximum amount of wounds that Mortarion can do in close combat is 18. That is against 5+ save or worse models (or 3+ save models with no invuln, but that are also 3 wounds each, or have more than 18 wounds). His nurglings can add more attacks (6 in a perfect situation) and can on average even wound guardsmen 4-5 times, but they likely will only take 3 wounds after saving throws. So 21 wounds from cc attacks. This is actually not at all terribly unlikely unless you're against MEQ.

Of course, he has his 7" aura ability. I think this is where most of the crazy ideas come in. He can, in theory, do tons of wounds if enough squads are close enough to him in the fight phase. If your opponent packs in 20 units (again inting to feed you) within 7", then 10 of them will suffer d3 mortal wounds (20 total basically). But we are not deterred by math. Theoretical maximum! I am capping your inting opponent at 20 squads because most armies don't even have that many units, let alone an opponent actually moving that many units into one spot to put you in range. But maybe you roll all 20 4+ rolls. That is actually slightly upwards of a 1 in a million event. Then you need to roll 20 5+ (less than 1 in 100 million odds). But congrats! You've done 60 mortal wounds!

Back to reality, you'll probably be able to position to get 3 or 4 units in range. Let's call it 4. 4+ to proc the ability means 2 units. D3 means 2 on average. So 4 wounds most likely.

So, in a fairy land, with an opponent actively feeding to try and let Mortarion rack up wounds, you could get 124 wounds in a single turn! This will happen once in every 100,000,000,000,000,000 attempts (order of magnitude approximation). To put this in context, if you could attempt this feat every second, in one billion years, you would have, on average, succeeded once.

End rant.



Realistically, I'm actually probably using the grenades if I don't need to snipe a character. That means that I'll get roughly 30 wounds a turn that Mortarion spends in combat. Not terrible, but nowhere near 200.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote:
Can't wait to see lists that have Mortarion and Magnus for double brother punching power. Better yet, take a couple of Supreme Command Detachments to get both of those LoW in there along with a bunch of buffing characters. Fill last of the points with cultists and poxwalkers. Shenanigans ensue.


I've given this a lot of thought, but it's tough to make work. In an ideal world, just use 2 super heavy auxiliary detachments, but you really need 2 battalions for that sweet sweet CP, and most events (even the BRB) only allow 3 detachments at 2k points. 6 CP is just not enough IMO.

If you do a battalion and 1-2 supreme command detachments, you're just a bit too bloated on HQ's IMO. The malefic lords are nice in this regard, but sadly I'm going to an event in October where I can only take 1 Forge World unit. Even if I could take 6, I'm not convinced that I would. Ah who am I kidding that would work really well. Curse you 3 detachment and 0-1 forge world limit!

But yeah big dude(s) plus cultists and poxwalkers will likely be the linchpins of many competitive CSM lists. Will be curious to see how many players omit Magnus in favor of Mortarion.


If you want max potential it would be the following:
-Silence max wounds= 6 hits (6x Death to the False Emperor)=12 hits x 6 damage= 72 wounds (don't forget the psychic power 6s to wound does an additional wound)= 84 max wounds from silence

-max plague wind damage is 50 against a massive conscript blob

-lantern max damage (if some crazy reason 18 diffrent units with 1" bases were all in a row 18x3dmg = 54 wounds

-with is aura he could then do mortal damage to 7 of those same units x3 dmg= 21

This gives him an almost impossible damage cap of 209 damage. You should go to Vegas if you did this!!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 02:54:25


Post by: ZergSmasher


I'm seriously considering allying in a Supreme Command Detachment of Be'lakor and 2 Malefic Lords with my Death Guard. Be'lakor can cast Warptime on Morty to get him into combat quickly, plus he can take one other power (like Prescience or something) to buff another unit. If he doesn't have something else to buff, there's always Smite. Be'lakor is also pretty beastly in combat with his AP-5 sword. Plus the Malefic Lords are cheap and can throw out Smites of their own. Not too shabby for 300 points. Yes we're expecting a nerf or at least a price bump to Malefic Lords, but even after that they may still be worth taking, just not easily spammed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 02:54:55


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


I agree that while there are a lot of good things in this codex, I think competitive DG will be one of two lists. Either it will be a gunline based around the plague crawlers, atleast one blight hauler, poxwalkers and/or cultists to screen, and characters for support. The 2nd option would be everything revolving around Mortarion; buffing him, supporting him, protecting him, whatever it may be.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 02:57:39


Post by: broxus


Anyone know for sure what the Plague Crawler's BS is? In diffrent reviews it is listed diffrently. I have heard both 3+ and 4+.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 03:21:26


Post by: Eldenfirefly


TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I agree that while there are a lot of good things in this codex, I think competitive DG will be one of two lists. Either it will be a gunline based around the plague crawlers, atleast one blight hauler, poxwalkers and/or cultists to screen, and characters for support. The 2nd option would be everything revolving around Mortarion; buffing him, supporting him, protecting him, whatever it may be.


One thing to consider would be whether we can really outshoot say a Gulliman list even if we focus alot on Plague Crawlers. Gulliman lists have reroll to hit and reroll to wound. Plague crawler are mainly good just because they seem to be cheap. We don't have the kind of aura buffs for shooting like a Gulliman list has.

On the other hand, an assaulty list carries risks of its own too. Its not easy to make an assaulty list work well, mainly because you spend at least one turn moving up the board, and then you have to worry about bubble wrap in your way, and then whoever you hit in assault can fall back and you still get shot again.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 03:34:47


Post by: luke1705


Plague Crawlers are good but they're not going to be in a tournament winning list. As Elden pointed out, they're just not efficient enough. That being said, I think they are awesome models and in a normal, non super competitive setting, I think that they (and like 90 percent of the Death Guard army) will do great.

Things from DG that belong in a super competitive army:

Mortarion
Typhus
Poxwalkers

I'll let you know if I think of anything else but I think that's about it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 03:42:58


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I dunno about pox walkers. 6 points for something that moves 4 inches? For bubblewrapping, they are too expensive. brimstone horrors are 3 points and have an invul save.

If you are relying on them to kill something worthwhile. At 4 inches move, they will never achieve that against competitive players.

They are thematic and can take up a troop slot in a Deathguard list. But so good such that they will actually achieve something? I still kinda have my doubts.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 03:52:22


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


The thing about the plague crawlers is that, according to the review I saw, their mortars are plague weapons. Then there is the warlord trait that allows plague weapons to reroll wounds. Put that on a lord for rerolling 1s to hit as well and they become pretty decent.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 03:55:40


Post by: luke1705


Eldenfirefly wrote:
I dunno about pox walkers. 6 points for something that moves 4 inches? For bubblewrapping, they are too expensive. brimstone horrors are 3 points and have an invul save.

If you are relying on them to kill something worthwhile. At 4 inches move, they will never achieve that against competitive players.

They are thematic and can take up a troop slot in a Deathguard list. But so good such that they will actually achieve something? I still kinda have my doubts.


I posted this a few pages back but basically you can take CSM cultists to screen the pox walkers. Say you take 80 cultists.

Shroud the pox walkers so they can't be targeted. Give them the super death rule so that when the cultists next to them die, they gain 1 pox walker for every dead cultist.

Profit as you now have 100 pox walkers on turn 2 or 3, much closer to the opponent.

For lols, if they don't kill all of the cultists, you can regenerate the squad and do it again.

The tallyman lets them re-roll all their failed to hits. Typhus can make them str 5 and t5 with his aura and a psychic power.

Prescience them if you want.

How do you feel about 200 str 5 attacks, hitting on 3's re-rolling misses? If Mortarion is nearby, they wound GEQ on 2's. That's a lot of saves for anyone, and every model that dies just keeps giving me more pox walkers.

TLDR I need more pox walker models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
The thing about the plague crawlers is that, according to the review I saw, their mortars are plague weapons. Then there is the warlord trait that allows plague weapons to reroll wounds. Put that on a lord for rerolling 1s to hit as well and they become pretty decent.


You are absolutely right. And perhaps they will wind up being competitive. But there's a pretty big chasm between "pretty decent" and "belongs in a tournament setting".

Deathshroud Terminators are pretty decent. Mortarion belongs in a tournament setting.

Basically, if it's not borderline OP, it's not usually going to show up at a tournament, unless the player bringing it just wants to play for fun and not to win.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 04:01:12


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 luke1705 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I dunno about pox walkers. 6 points for something that moves 4 inches? For bubblewrapping, they are too expensive. brimstone horrors are 3 points and have an invul save.

If you are relying on them to kill something worthwhile. At 4 inches move, they will never achieve that against competitive players.

They are thematic and can take up a troop slot in a Deathguard list. But so good such that they will actually achieve something? I still kinda have my doubts.


I posted this a few pages back but basically you can take CSM cultists to screen the pox walkers. Say you take 80 cultists.

Shroud the pox walkers so they can't be targeted. Give them the super death rule so that when the cultists next to them die, they gain 1 pox walker for every dead cultist.

Profit as you now have 100 pox walkers on turn 2 or 3, much closer to the opponent.

For lols, if they don't kill all of the cultists, you can regenerate the squad and do it again.

The tallyman lets them re-roll all their failed to hits. Typhus can make them str 5 and t5 with his aura and a psychic power.

Prescience them if you want.

How do you feel about 200 str 5 attacks, hitting on 3's re-rolling misses? If Mortarion is nearby, they wound GEQ on 2's. That's a lot of saves for anyone, and every model that dies just keeps giving me more pox walkers.

TLDR I need more pox walker models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
The thing about the plague crawlers is that, according to the review I saw, their mortars are plague weapons. Then there is the warlord trait that allows plague weapons to reroll wounds. Put that on a lord for rerolling 1s to hit as well and they become pretty decent.


You are absolutely right. And perhaps they will wind up being competitive. But there's a pretty big chasm between "pretty decent" and "belongs in a tournament setting".

Deathshroud Terminators are pretty decent. Mortarion belongs in a tournament setting.

Basically, if it's not borderline OP, it's not usually going to show up at a tournament, unless the player bringing it just wants to play for fun and not to win.


And I complimented you on that tactic! But I still think a move of 4 inches is going to be problematic. I dunno, we will see. I would like to see your idea implemented and tried out in an actual list and have feedback on how it worked.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 04:17:24


Post by: TasadarTheMadBear


Well regardless on how good they end up being (only actually using them will tell), I plan on painting up a spearhead detachment consisting of 3 pĺague crawlers and a lord all in Iron Warriors colors to go with my current army. From there, we will see if they end up in the DG army I am starting


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 07:14:02


Post by: mario88826


 luke1705 wrote:
mario88826 wrote:


Oh well even with math shoved right onto paper some people just can't accept it. OKay in fact he can do way more. Just lineup 25mm -28mm base character in line to increase pistol damage.
And few more hidden gems - +2 S +1A can dish another 18 wounds on silence. And getting like 13 units within 7" is easy as hell .

I can get 30 wounds just from plague wind. You are deluded not to see theoretical possiblity for way more than your 30-60 wounds ...
And plague wind is just smaller part ... from psychic powrs alone 43 wounds ... 7 for new contagion spell and 6 from smite. I DON'T EVEN NEED TO USE Silence at all to get more than 60 wounds which is is your so-called "very theoretical upper limit under perfect circumstances."


You don't know your stuff buddy go read rules for plague wind alone to see where just minor part of this possible damage comes.

Also bad math - then show me yours , I have proper one here. 43 wounds from spells not counting aura/ phosphex/pistol/Silence other possible damage (yeah there are such possiblites)

With pistol and spells alone I break your weirdo theory.


Ok I'm putting this to bed. The ridiculous asssumptions here are going to stop.

Rant and actual math incoming:

Spoiler:


Mortarion can do wounds in the psychic phase, shooting phase, and the assault phase.

In the psychic phase, you can dream that he would do 17 wounds. Realistically, he's casting the -1 to hit power on himself and then blades if he needs it, but let's say you're going all out offensive and using smite and curse of the leper. Against the ideal target (t3 guardsmen or something), you need a 3+ on all 7 dice. That will happen 1 in 20 attempts. But say you get it. Then you smite (roughly a 85% chance to cast). If you're in range to get denied, the math gets tricky based on what you rolled but, on average, you'll get denied roughly 30% of the time that you succeed to cast. Once you've cast, you need to roll high enough to go for a d6 damage smite. That's just under 10%. And then you need to roll a 6. So 1/6 odds. So in nearly 2% of your smite attempts, you'll get to do 6 mortal wounds. In one out of 1000 psychic phases, you will do 13 mortal wounds. On normal turns when you smite and cast a defensive power, you're probably averaging 2 mortal wounds.

In the shooting phase, things can get very ridiculous if you have an opponent that is literally inting and feeding you 3+ wound models. In the dream world, you have a line of 17 different squads who are literally screaming at you to end their existence. (Note that there are very few 3+ wound models that are also on 28mm bases, which is necessary for this strategem). So you've got your friend with an army of nothing but acolytes and inquisitors trying to position in such a way that you can tell the Internet that this actually happened. I'm actually not sure if you need to hit everyone or just your original target, but either way it's actually on average that you'll hit and wound all but one time, even if you hit individually. So toss on 51 more wounds. Never mind that no sane opponent will ever let you line up more than 4 or 5 squads, and that most of those squads will comprise of single wound models, so realistically you're getting a true theoretical maximum of 10 wounds most likely. I think doing 6-7 is a good turn and 4-5 is a good representative average expectation. Tbh, the grenades are probably a better bet against most chaff units. On average, 7 attacks, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 4 dead models in one squad. But the pistol can snipe a character if it has 3 or fewer wounds so that's nice.

The maximum amount of wounds that Mortarion can do in close combat is 18. That is against 5+ save or worse models (or 3+ save models with no invuln, but that are also 3 wounds each, or have more than 18 wounds). His nurglings can add more attacks (6 in a perfect situation) and can on average even wound guardsmen 4-5 times, but they likely will only take 3 wounds after saving throws. So 21 wounds from cc attacks. This is actually not at all terribly unlikely unless you're against MEQ.

Of course, he has his 7" aura ability. I think this is where most of the crazy ideas come in. He can, in theory, do tons of wounds if enough squads are close enough to him in the fight phase. If your opponent packs in 20 units (again inting to feed you) within 7", then 10 of them will suffer d3 mortal wounds (20 total basically). But we are not deterred by math. Theoretical maximum! I am capping your inting opponent at 20 squads because most armies don't even have that many units, let alone an opponent actually moving that many units into one spot to put you in range. But maybe you roll all 20 4+ rolls. That is actually slightly upwards of a 1 in a million event. Then you need to roll 20 5+ (less than 1 in 100 million odds). But congrats! You've done 60 mortal wounds!

Back to reality, you'll probably be able to position to get 3 or 4 units in range. Let's call it 4. 4+ to proc the ability means 2 units. D3 means 2 on average. So 4 wounds most likely.

So, in a fairy land, with an opponent actively feeding to try and let Mortarion rack up wounds, you could get 124 wounds in a single turn! This will happen once in every 100,000,000,000,000,000 attempts (order of magnitude approximation). To put this in context, if you could attempt this feat every second, in one billion years, you would have, on average, succeeded once.

End rant.



Realistically, I'm actually probably using the grenades if I don't need to snipe a character. That means that I'll get roughly 30 wounds a turn that Mortarion spends in combat. Not terrible, but nowhere near 200.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote:
Can't wait to see lists that have Mortarion and Magnus for double brother punching power. Better yet, take a couple of Supreme Command Detachments to get both of those LoW in there along with a bunch of buffing characters. Fill last of the points with cultists and poxwalkers. Shenanigans ensue.


I've given this a lot of thought, but it's tough to make work. In an ideal world, just use 2 super heavy auxiliary detachments, but you really need 2 battalions for that sweet sweet CP, and most events (even the BRB) only allow 3 detachments at 2k points. 6 CP is just not enough IMO.

If you do a battalion and 1-2 supreme command detachments, you're just a bit too bloated on HQ's IMO. The malefic lords are nice in this regard, but sadly I'm going to an event in October where I can only take 1 Forge World unit. Even if I could take 6, I'm not convinced that I would. Ah who am I kidding that would work really well. Curse you 3 detachment and 0-1 forge world limit!

But yeah big dude(s) plus cultists and poxwalkers will likely be the linchpins of many competitive CSM lists. Will be curious to see how many players omit Magnus in favor of Mortarion.


OK this ridiculous conversation ends NOW, I need to put down your arguments like rabbid dog out of misery.

Why you even attacked me in first place is also beyond my understanding. But I will keep my cool and just hammer you with facts.

I don't care what is " you can hope for, you can pray, please cross fingers " and other similar arguments.

FIRST OF ALL - i said dealing this amount in practice is nigh impossible. So stop repeating that I said he deals this every turn in every game. People can read so you are making yourself looking extremely bad.
All I did was to show his potential damage he can dish out and as it stands you never managed to show ANY MATH - whether you possess any math skills or not - that is not my bussiness .

Potential doesn't mean you can use it at demand .

Listen since you are so stubborn and idk you sounds like some fact-resilient person - then I just won't spend any more comments on you.

Give up dude, leave me be . So far not even in a single post you did any proof for your claims. When I at same time just made CORRECT claims according to rules of 40k . Plain and simple.

Sadly you are not person that you can communicate with , because you rely on some weird math magic, assumptions and religious zeal.

Keep talking about DG tactics there. What you do now is nothing but disgusting - and most of all you just don't have single argument going for you.

IT ENDS NOW. Regardless of your any response. I won't even read it in first place. It got ridiculous. Actually putting you on ignore. As civilised conversation with you is apparenlty impossible.

As last thing - if you want to prove I'm wrong - then do so. Don't use demagogy and other tricks. They don't work on me. Only facts and pure calculations. As it happens i have math degree.
That doesn't mean i'm always right or that i cannot make mistake. But for sure I won't listen to some "kitchen math".

Ok back to tactic - so according to warhammer community (and that site is 100% accurate after all about rules) - Deathshroud don't get extra attack for characters around them but those characters get the attack instead with exception for Morty.

Bit disappointed hehe - though they get +1 A and they hit better than most characters. But still not bad when your demon prince/lord of contagion/typhus etc can swing one more time. Not bad at all considering typhus hits super hard but just got 4 attacks base.

Sounds like this really makes them best as embarked on Land Raider , because there is a lot of space left for few characters like Surgeon/Typhus/tallyman. Blightlords sound like better deepstriking option.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 08:15:57


Post by: broxus


Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 08:35:14


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Hmmm, so Mortarion is just going to charge in all by himself ? Because I don't think the rest of the army will be able to keep up. And you probably want to plague hauler to stay with the plague marines to give them their +1 cover save.

I dunno, I think someone will come up with the best way to send Mortarion into combat, but right now, flying him up alone just seem like a very risky thing to do. I mean, he is resilient, but he isn't invincible. I think you will get the best out of him if you either present multiple big threats, or fly him up with other stuff beside him.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 08:58:20


Post by: mario88826


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, so Mortarion is just going to charge in all by himself ? Because I don't think the rest of the army will be able to keep up. And you probably want to plague hauler to stay with the plague marines to give them their +1 cover save.

I dunno, I think someone will come up with the best way to send Mortarion into combat, but right now, flying him up alone just seem like a very risky thing to do. I mean, he is resilient, but he isn't invincible. I think you will get the best out of him if you either present multiple big threats, or fly him up with other stuff beside him.


Both 2 new daemon engines move at 10" and drones can even advance and still hit with some weapons. So If i would to field Mortarion - they would come with him for sure. And that is actually pretty solid backup.
You can also teleport strike terminators to make sure he is not alone there, and neither terminators are - giving your opponent ... tons of targets that need attention.
And there is possibility to carry stuff in fast Rhino/Land Raider - some support characters like Foul Blightspawn / malignant plague caster and some cc guys like Deathsroud/Plague Marines.

Just forget poxwalkers if you field Morty - take Plague Marines as troops then - they can come in Rhino and/or support him with long range fire - as they are actually can rapid fire at 18" and hit at 24" with blight launchers.
I can't even imagine when they could aid Morty if they are going 4" even with Noxious dude.

So yeah as long as you don't forget to take teleport strike support/demon engines and transports - he should have backup coming with him.

Other worth mentioning aspect is that we as of now got BEST long range artillery support of all (oh irony for army that was supposed to be weak at heavy support) - PlagueBurst crawler can hurt stuff that wants to target Mortarion.

Some devastator squad / Hellblasters ? Hit them with mortar - if you hit them - then you wound on 2+ rerolling 1's - that is sick. And -3 AP D3 damage.

Some vehicles with lascannons ? Razorbacks ? Entropy cannon (cheaper and better lascannon in fact , S8 but that AP-4 for 5 points less) - although only 36" not 48" still nice range and wounds razorback on 3+ , shreds his armor completely and D6 damage each.

Since those mortars are like 150 points - I can easily see DG army having actually pretty impressive support fire once you take 2 or even 3 of those.

Basically we got more shooty and WAY more resillient razorbacks, sadly they eat heavy support slots - but what else we have ? Predator - good but just inferior to PBC , Defiler - ok that is not bad at all, maybe Land Raider if you want to carry some dudes. You should anway easily fit 2 out of 3 slots without spearhead in battalion with PBC's.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!


Mate not bad list there. Idk if Morty Was 470 or 427 though. If 470 then he is pricey .
You got exactly enough points to fit 1 more Hauler.

It's simple thing for Haulers you either take 1 as support for infantry and some dakka or 3 , nothing in middle. unit of 3+ get +1 to hit.

When you get 3 you start hitting on 3+ even after moving. That is really huge boost to those guys.

Also I kinda can't see why you take 3 characters for rerolling 1's . A bit overkill and at same time your psychic phase ain't strong enough.
Typhus even without zombies(btw screw poxwalkers) is powerful CC dude and can cast 2 powers . So I would replace lord.

And you made small mistake there - if you have Morty then he has Warlord trait - Archcontaminator (pretty neat). So you can't have DR warlord trait aswell on Prince.

Unless you won't make Morty your warlord - but then again you lose his powerful aura.

Damn last edit - also I kinda don't like sending Morty alone - I think it's wise to send new CC bloat drone with him , they benefit from his warlord trait and -1T aura BIG TIME. And they hit pretty hard on thier own. Or at least Plaguespitter drones - also fast solid can advance and still autohit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 09:27:06


Post by: Milkshaker


BlueBiscuit wrote:
Blightlords, at least according to that review, also have S5 3A and can intercept wounds for DG characters. They don't get manreapers and can't give +1 attack to characters, but that's it apparently.


I doubt he has the book and has just compiled info from other feeds for views. I think blightlord termies will only have str 4 and 2 attacks. Also, I believe the crawler was mentioned to be daemonic in the miniwargaming video, so it'll have a BS of 4+ probably.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 09:32:28


Post by: mario88826


Milkshaker wrote:
BlueBiscuit wrote:
Blightlords, at least according to that review, also have S5 3A and can intercept wounds for DG characters. They don't get manreapers and can't give +1 attack to characters, but that's it apparently.


I doubt he has the book and has just compiled info from other feeds for views. I think blightlord termies will only have str 4 and 2 attacks. Also, I believe the crawler was mentioned to be daemonic in the miniwargaming video, so it'll have a BS of 4+ probably.


You are correct sir, guy copy pasted Deathshroud stats. Still Blightlords are best termies in game by far for points per model. No Manreapers but they get even more OP weapon value wise - godly flails of corruption.

Speaking about crawler - yeah 4+ bs sucks, but then again I rather have 4+ BS than lose demonic 5+ invu and 5+ FNP (comparison to predator). And most importantly if you want plaguespitters they autohit anyway with S7 - sick.
Honestly it's good they got BS 4+ . Otherwise they would be disgustingly overpowered. With BS 4+ they are just very strong.

Now here is my question: can I use Demon Engine stratagem on Heretic Astartes Demon Engine in DG detachment ? Or I can only use Stratagems from DG book ? That is actually pretty bad for any demon engine if they lose access to this godlike stratagem.
Same with warlord traits / relics ?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 10:10:53


Post by: broxus


Do we know for sure the plague crawlers are BS4? I saw another review series that showed them as BS3.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 10:14:25


Post by: broxus


mario88826 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, so Mortarion is just going to charge in all by himself ? Because I don't think the rest of the army will be able to keep up. And you probably want to plague hauler to stay with the plague marines to give them their +1 cover save.

I dunno, I think someone will come up with the best way to send Mortarion into combat, but right now, flying him up alone just seem like a very risky thing to do. I mean, he is resilient, but he isn't invincible. I think you will get the best out of him if you either present multiple big threats, or fly him up with other stuff beside him.


Both 2 new daemon engines move at 10" and drones can even advance and still hit with some weapons. So If i would to field Mortarion - they would come with him for sure. And that is actually pretty solid backup.
You can also teleport strike terminators to make sure he is not alone there, and neither terminators are - giving your opponent ... tons of targets that need attention.
And there is possibility to carry stuff in fast Rhino/Land Raider - some support characters like Foul Blightspawn / malignant plague caster and some cc guys like Deathsroud/Plague Marines.

Just forget poxwalkers if you field Morty - take Plague Marines as troops then - they can come in Rhino and/or support him with long range fire - as they are actually can rapid fire at 18" and hit at 24" with blight launchers.
I can't even imagine when they could aid Morty if they are going 4" even with Noxious dude.

So yeah as long as you don't forget to take teleport strike support/demon engines and transports - he should have backup coming with him.

Other worth mentioning aspect is that we as of now got BEST long range artillery support of all (oh irony for army that was supposed to be weak at heavy support) - PlagueBurst crawler can hurt stuff that wants to target Mortarion.

Some devastator squad / Hellblasters ? Hit them with mortar - if you hit them - then you wound on 2+ rerolling 1's - that is sick. And -3 AP D3 damage.

Some vehicles with lascannons ? Razorbacks ? Entropy cannon (cheaper and better lascannon in fact , S8 but that AP-4 for 5 points less) - although only 36" not 48" still nice range and wounds razorback on 3+ , shreds his armor completely and D6 damage each.

Since those mortars are like 150 points - I can easily see DG army having actually pretty impressive support fire once you take 2 or even 3 of those.

Basically we got more shooty and WAY more resillient razorbacks, sadly they eat heavy support slots - but what else we have ? Predator - good but just inferior to PBC , Defiler - ok that is not bad at all, maybe Land Raider if you want to carry some dudes. You should anway easily fit 2 out of 3 slots without spearhead in battalion with PBC's.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!


Mate not bad list there. Idk if Morty Was 470 or 427 though. If 470 then he is pricey .
You got exactly enough points to fit 1 more Hauler.

It's simple thing for Haulers you either take 1 as support for infantry and some dakka or 3 , nothing in middle. unit of 3+ get +1 to hit.

When you get 3 you start hitting on 3+ even after moving. That is really huge boost to those guys.

Also I kinda can't see why you take 3 characters for rerolling 1's . A bit overkill and at same time your psychic phase ain't strong enough.
Typhus even without zombies(btw screw poxwalkers) is powerful CC dude and can cast 2 powers . So I would replace lord.

And you made small mistake there - if you have Morty then he has Warlord trait - Archcontaminator (pretty neat). So you can't have DR warlord trait aswell on Prince.

Unless you won't make Morty your warlord - but then again you lose his powerful aura.

Damn last edit - also I kinda don't like sending Morty alone - I think it's wise to send new CC bloat drone with him , they benefit from his warlord trait and -1T aura BIG TIME. And they hit pretty hard on thier own. Or at least Plaguespitter drones - also fast solid can advance and still autohit.


Yea the DP goes in foward with Mortaian to attack my enemy. I guess I could take a bloat drone with flesh mower in addition (depending on points). I wouldn't mind finding a way to add a unit of terminators also. I would also not make Mortarian my warlord in this list and instead make it the DP. I really like the idea of a 4+ DR save. And unless you go all in for melee units Mortatian's aura doesn't really do much, since most plague weapons already reroll 1s on wound rolls. I would rather have someone baby sitting my PMs, crawlers, and haulers and reroll all there 1s to hit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 10:44:07


Post by: mario88826


@ broxus

Well fact is that DR trait is much worse than Arch contaminator regardless of setup.

Arch contaminator let's Mortarion reroll all wound rolls on his Silence in 18 attacks mode so against T8 targets you reroll 1's 2's 3's not just 1's. But there is more - you reroll all nurgling wounds so they may actually be able to score some damage . 95% of time you want to swing 18 times instead of 6 with S16 , especially thanks to his trait .

All your plague marines/bloat drones/haulers/terminator plague weapons - be it in CC or ranged also reroll all wound rolls. Within arch contaminator aura of course.

Arch contaminator is hands down best trait you can have . Good for warlord and not selfish at same time - a lot of stuff around benefits - be it Deathsroud/Blightlords/Drones or anything with plague weapon.

That being said - I won't stop you from going with +1 to FNP on 1 unit . That does not even help your fnp at all against mortal wounds - as stated in trait description.
Honestly if I would take any defensive trait at all on Demon Prince - I would either take damage reduction by 1 or regeneration - each players turn so in one turn you actually heal 2 wounds !


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 11:43:41


Post by: broxus


mario88826 wrote:
@ broxus

Well fact is that DR trait is much worse than Arch contaminator regardless of setup.

Arch contaminator let's Mortarion reroll all wound rolls on his Silence in 18 attacks mode so against T8 targets you reroll 1's 2's 3's not just 1's. But there is more - you reroll all nurgling wounds so they may actually be able to score some damage . 95% of time you want to swing 18 times instead of 6 with S16 , especially thanks to his trait .

All your plague marines/bloat drones/haulers/terminator plague weapons - be it in CC or ranged also reroll all wound rolls. Within arch contaminator aura of course.

Arch contaminator is hands down best trait you can have . Good for warlord and not selfish at same time - a lot of stuff around benefits - be it Deathsroud/Blightlords/Drones or anything with plague weapon.

That being said - I won't stop you from going with +1 to FNP on 1 unit . That does not even help your fnp at all against mortal wounds - as stated in trait description.
Honestly if I would take any defensive trait at all on Demon Prince - I would either take damage reduction by 1 or regeneration - each players turn so in one turn you actually heal 2 wounds !


I may take the regen instead of the +1 DR. If I take arch contagion on Mort he will likely always be ahead of my units and they won't get the benefits. Especially since the bulk of my firepower comes from my advancing plague marines.

Also remember T8 targets near Mort are only T7 if you used the 18 attacks for some reason you would wound on 3s and reroll 1s. However, against any single target I can't see any situation that you would rather use the Str 16, AP 4 attacks that do D6 damage.

I really think the core of the Death Guard is rapid firing plasma at 18". My list alone pumps out 24 shots a turn. Having 3 plasma guns in such resilient unit is amazing. In fact, a scion command squad with 4-plasma guns shooting at a unit of PM in cover (or near a hauler) only does 1.58 damage.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 12:51:41


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 12:59:40


Post by: dan2026


Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 13:09:01


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


 dan2026 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


I also thought about adding 3x3 Oblits + Termi-Lord from CSM, since Oblits now have some decent firepower and are Daemons as well. You miss out on some stratagems though when making them Nurgle. However, you can teleport in, forming a bubble around the lord to reroll ones. The only "downside" in that kind of army would be that you skip the DG trait and take some Daemons as troops, as there are no DG Daemon troops and you would want everybody to profit and everybody to bring up the Tally.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 13:16:49


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


 dan2026 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


Shame it is one of the ugliest models GW produces. I would be inclined to model my own somehow, because... seriously, why is that model so awful?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 13:16:59


Post by: mario88826


broxus wrote:
mario88826 wrote:
@ broxus

Well fact is that DR trait is much worse than Arch contaminator regardless of setup.

Arch contaminator let's Mortarion reroll all wound rolls on his Silence in 18 attacks mode so against T8 targets you reroll 1's 2's 3's not just 1's. But there is more - you reroll all nurgling wounds so they may actually be able to score some damage . 95% of time you want to swing 18 times instead of 6 with S16 , especially thanks to his trait .

All your plague marines/bloat drones/haulers/terminator plague weapons - be it in CC or ranged also reroll all wound rolls. Within arch contaminator aura of course.

Arch contaminator is hands down best trait you can have . Good for warlord and not selfish at same time - a lot of stuff around benefits - be it Deathsroud/Blightlords/Drones or anything with plague weapon.

That being said - I won't stop you from going with +1 to FNP on 1 unit . That does not even help your fnp at all against mortal wounds - as stated in trait description.
Honestly if I would take any defensive trait at all on Demon Prince - I would either take damage reduction by 1 or regeneration - each players turn so in one turn you actually heal 2 wounds !


I may take the regen instead of the +1 DR. If I take arch contagion on Mort he will likely always be ahead of my units and they won't get the benefits. Especially since the bulk of my firepower comes from my advancing plague marines.

Also remember T8 targets near Mort are only T7 if you used the 18 attacks for some reason you would wound on 3s and reroll 1s. However, against any single target I can't see any situation that you would rather use the Str 16, AP 4 attacks that do D6 damage.

I really think the core of the Death Guard is rapid firing plasma at 18". My list alone pumps out 24 shots a turn. Having 3 plasma guns in such resilient unit is amazing. In fact, a scion command squad with 4-plasma guns shooting at a unit of PM in cover (or near a hauler) only does 1.58 damage.


hah fair enough about -1T I forgot so yes even against T8 it's 3+. Good point. When I make mistake I admit it. Still Archcontaminator helps even your shooty plague marines defend in CC or your haulers close combat .

Well I see you have fairly decent tactic - however seems like Morty doesn't really fit into this Army tbh ? You can get like 3 more plagueburst crawlers in sperhead there instead of him. Since it seems you aim for shooty army. Or anything else like more haulers/shooty drones.

Mortarion seems like he is solid centerpice for army based on plague weapons and CC. He is strong, but not mandatory - and seems you don't have much use for him there. And he is 470 pts huh.
Sure I know 5 PBC's seem like boring looking army - but for tournament if you want to win - you probably don't need to have funny list - but strong one.

For casual games of course I wouldnt go to such extremes like 5x PBC. But just pure amount of dakka such setup provides is staggering.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 dan2026 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Anyone thought about combining Epidemius with Morty and/or his tanks?

Nothing will bring up the tally as fast as morty. After 5kills he becomes T8. Plaguecrawler, Hauler and Drone also bring up the Tally, they can probably wipe sth. off the board turn 1. After 6 kills the lawnmower drone will have 10 attacks. Just pure win

I was just going to mention Eipdemius you read my mind.
Strangely enough I think Morty and the new Daemon Engines might work better in a largely Daemons list.


Hah yes there are VERY nice spells from demon nurgle discipline, that are excellent for morty and demon engines.
To name those : Virulent blessing - oh my good suddenly CC bloat drone with contagion +1 wound roll spell deals on wounds of 5+ 6+ flat 4 damage on top of mortal wounds. Same for mortarion.
Another nice demon spell is Flesh Abundance or so - heals D3 wounds. Mortarion really likes this idea.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 15:52:35


Post by: Virules


I've been almost exclusively playing Epidemius Nurgle Daemons all of 8th Ed. and I did some test games this weekend with Mortarion in the list. It did very well and I'm pleased. However, you have to make a lot of tough choices of what to include or exclude in the list if that's the route you're going to go. Also, if you take a CSM daemon prince for warp time, that guy won't have FNP, and it means you need to add even more Chaos Daemon Nurgle Daemon Princes to get the powers from the other tree. Plus, you will have a list with almost 0 shooting.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 16:46:50


Post by: dan2026


 Virules wrote:
I've been almost exclusively playing Epidemius Nurgle Daemons all of 8th Ed. and I did some test games this weekend with Mortarion in the list. It did very well and I'm pleased. However, you have to make a lot of tough choices of what to include or exclude in the list if that's the route you're going to go. Also, if you take a CSM daemon prince for warp time, that guy won't have FNP, and it means you need to add even more Chaos Daemon Nurgle Daemon Princes to get the powers from the other tree. Plus, you will have a list with almost 0 shooting.


Would you mind posting your list? The pre mortarion one I mean.
I also play Nurgle Daemons and would find it very interesting.

With regards to the 0 shooting. I think the Plague Crawlers are going to be quite a big boon to Nurgle Daemons.
A long range mortar shooting attack fills a much needed hole.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 16:48:53


Post by: Virules


II'll PM you the two pre-Mortarion lists I was running.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 17:09:11


Post by: DarklyDreaming


How would you equip the BlightLord Terminators (in order to kill some MEQ and TEQ)? I would go with axes and blight launchers (better than plasma? I can't risk to lose a 57 pts model...) except for the sergent with the flail... 3d3 attacks my god.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 18:16:56


Post by: broxus


Can the new terminators all take flail?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/11 18:30:38


Post by: mario88826


broxus wrote:
Can the new terminators all take flail?


You want to 1 shoot 50 man blobs , don't you ? Sadly noone knows or more like some people who have codex already know , but they don't want to /can't tell.

Well I doubt all can, but hopefully at least 2 can like with PM.