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Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 14:46:57


Post by: Strat_N8


snottlebocket wrote:
broxus wrote:
What is really crazy 6 squads can put out 36 plasma shots a turn when they rapid fire at 18". That brings the pain for a reasonable price. They can be overcharged if needed depending on the target.


A reasonable price? You pay over 800 points for that. 20 helblasters will output 40 plasma shots for around 650 points and they can deploy in rapid fire range with the ravenguard stratagem.



To be fair, the 6 squads of Plague Marines fulfill the minimum requirements for 2x Battalions or the troop requirements of a Brigade while the Hellblasters at best fill out a Spearhead. Might not have the sheer destructive power of the specialists but they do net more command points in exchange.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 15:08:09


Post by: Pandabeer


snottlebocket wrote:
6 death shrouds + a terminator sorcerer for warp time, worth it?

I'm somewhat unimpressed with the blightlords, especially since the kit has such paltry parts offerings.

Shrouds look like they can feth some stuff up, provided they get to charge on the turn they deep strike.


Well, I just thought about something very nice for Blightlords... deepstrike a squad of them armed with combi-plasma's (and melee weapon of choice) together with a vanilla terminator lord (also armed with combi-plasma) for safe overcharging. Then use the Veterans of the Long War stratagem. Anything with T7 or below now gets wounded on 2s. Haven't done the exact math yet, but a squad of 5 + Lord can probably kill off any medium vehicle (Predators, Dunecrawlers, those kind of things) within 18" on the turn they come in. A squad of 10 (yes, quite expensive, I know) will probably one-shot a Land Raider and can severely cripple a Knight (maybe even kill it outright with some lucky rolling?). As an added advantage they're going to require a lot of firepower to get rid of and aren't half bad in CC so if you play your cards well they can repeat this little trick for several turns. And if they do get focus fired they're a very good distraction carnifex for your other stuff. Just keep in mind it is absolutely vital to keep the Lord alive because 90% of their power comes from being a tough as nails plasma platform that can safely overcharge.

As far as the aesthetics go, I like them, but I don't know exactly what parts are in their kits. If they don't have combi-plasma's I'll just order a pack of plasma gun parts and kitbash them on the Orky way (as in, cut off the grip and trigger and glue the rest to the terminators' storm bolter)



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 16:07:11


Post by: mario88826


Pandabeer wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
6 death shrouds + a terminator sorcerer for warp time, worth it?

I'm somewhat unimpressed with the blightlords, especially since the kit has such paltry parts offerings.

Shrouds look like they can feth some stuff up, provided they get to charge on the turn they deep strike.


Well, I just thought about something very nice for Blightlords... deepstrike a squad of them armed with combi-plasma's (and melee weapon of choice) together with a vanilla terminator lord (also armed with combi-plasma) for safe overcharging. Then use the Veterans of the Long War stratagem. Anything with T7 or below now gets wounded on 2s. Haven't done the exact math yet, but a squad of 5 + Lord can probably kill off any medium vehicle (Predators, Dunecrawlers, those kind of things) within 18" on the turn they come in. A squad of 10 (yes, quite expensive, I know) will probably one-shot a Land Raider and can severely cripple a Knight (maybe even kill it outright with some lucky rolling?). As an added advantage they're going to require a lot of firepower to get rid of and aren't half bad in CC so if you play your cards well they can repeat this little trick for several turns. And if they do get focus fired they're a very good distraction carnifex for your other stuff. Just keep in mind it is absolutely vital to keep the Lord alive because 90% of their power comes from being a tough as nails plasma platform that can safely overcharge.

As far as the aesthetics go, I like them, but I don't know exactly what parts are in their kits. If they don't have combi-plasma's I'll just order a pack of plasma gun parts and kitbash them on the Orky way (as in, cut off the grip and trigger and glue the rest to the terminators' storm bolter)



Not sure you can though. Description on GW site for them says that only champion can take combi plasma - terminators have option for flamer,autocannon,blight launcher.

I still like them as I will just with weird all combi bolters, one blight launcher and one guy with flail. Axes for guys with 1h weapons.
Sounds like masters of nothing - but they still dish out 12 bolter shoots, 2 blight launcher shoots and in CC this unit kicks ass. Cost is reasonable and actually I take them as distraction carnifex - hard to ignore them since they shoot and in CC do tons of damage. But at same time kinda hard to remove them without really commiting hard.

At same time Morty closes in with other stuff. So even if they take damage, then someone else doesn't. So it's actually good that I do not overinvest into them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 16:13:12


Post by: combatcotton


mario88826 wrote:

Not sure you can though. Description on GW site for them says that only champion can take combi plasma - terminators have option for flamer,autocannon,blight launcher.


Blightlord terminators can replace their combi bolters for combi plasma. Expensive, but possible.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 16:53:04


Post by: Pandabeer


mario88826 wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
6 death shrouds + a terminator sorcerer for warp time, worth it?

I'm somewhat unimpressed with the blightlords, especially since the kit has such paltry parts offerings.

Shrouds look like they can feth some stuff up, provided they get to charge on the turn they deep strike.


Well, I just thought about something very nice for Blightlords... deepstrike a squad of them armed with combi-plasma's (and melee weapon of choice) together with a vanilla terminator lord (also armed with combi-plasma) for safe overcharging. Then use the Veterans of the Long War stratagem. Anything with T7 or below now gets wounded on 2s. Haven't done the exact math yet, but a squad of 5 + Lord can probably kill off any medium vehicle (Predators, Dunecrawlers, those kind of things) within 18" on the turn they come in. A squad of 10 (yes, quite expensive, I know) will probably one-shot a Land Raider and can severely cripple a Knight (maybe even kill it outright with some lucky rolling?). As an added advantage they're going to require a lot of firepower to get rid of and aren't half bad in CC so if you play your cards well they can repeat this little trick for several turns. And if they do get focus fired they're a very good distraction carnifex for your other stuff. Just keep in mind it is absolutely vital to keep the Lord alive because 90% of their power comes from being a tough as nails plasma platform that can safely overcharge.

As far as the aesthetics go, I like them, but I don't know exactly what parts are in their kits. If they don't have combi-plasma's I'll just order a pack of plasma gun parts and kitbash them on the Orky way (as in, cut off the grip and trigger and glue the rest to the terminators' storm bolter)



Not sure you can though. Description on GW site for them says that only champion can take combi plasma - terminators have option for flamer,autocannon,blight launcher.

I still like them as I will just with weird all combi bolters, one blight launcher and one guy with flail. Axes for guys with 1h weapons.
Sounds like masters of nothing - but they still dish out 12 bolter shoots, 2 blight launcher shoots and in CC this unit kicks ass. Cost is reasonable and actually I take them as distraction carnifex - hard to ignore them since they shoot and in CC do tons of damage. But at same time kinda hard to remove them without really commiting hard.

At same time Morty closes in with other stuff. So even if they take damage, then someone else doesn't. So it's actually good that I do not overinvest into them.


Codex says they can ("any model can take an item from the death guard combi-weapon list"). Description on GW site just means that there's only going to be one combi-weapon in the box... which means I'll need to get the separate plasma guns after all.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 18:58:52


Post by: mario88826


Pandabeer wrote:
mario88826 wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
6 death shrouds + a terminator sorcerer for warp time, worth it?

I'm somewhat unimpressed with the blightlords, especially since the kit has such paltry parts offerings.

Shrouds look like they can feth some stuff up, provided they get to charge on the turn they deep strike.


Well, I just thought about something very nice for Blightlords... deepstrike a squad of them armed with combi-plasma's (and melee weapon of choice) together with a vanilla terminator lord (also armed with combi-plasma) for safe overcharging. Then use the Veterans of the Long War stratagem. Anything with T7 or below now gets wounded on 2s. Haven't done the exact math yet, but a squad of 5 + Lord can probably kill off any medium vehicle (Predators, Dunecrawlers, those kind of things) within 18" on the turn they come in. A squad of 10 (yes, quite expensive, I know) will probably one-shot a Land Raider and can severely cripple a Knight (maybe even kill it outright with some lucky rolling?). As an added advantage they're going to require a lot of firepower to get rid of and aren't half bad in CC so if you play your cards well they can repeat this little trick for several turns. And if they do get focus fired they're a very good distraction carnifex for your other stuff. Just keep in mind it is absolutely vital to keep the Lord alive because 90% of their power comes from being a tough as nails plasma platform that can safely overcharge.

As far as the aesthetics go, I like them, but I don't know exactly what parts are in their kits. If they don't have combi-plasma's I'll just order a pack of plasma gun parts and kitbash them on the Orky way (as in, cut off the grip and trigger and glue the rest to the terminators' storm bolter)



Not sure you can though. Description on GW site for them says that only champion can take combi plasma - terminators have option for flamer,autocannon,blight launcher.

I still like them as I will just with weird all combi bolters, one blight launcher and one guy with flail. Axes for guys with 1h weapons.
Sounds like masters of nothing - but they still dish out 12 bolter shoots, 2 blight launcher shoots and in CC this unit kicks ass. Cost is reasonable and actually I take them as distraction carnifex - hard to ignore them since they shoot and in CC do tons of damage. But at same time kinda hard to remove them without really commiting hard.

At same time Morty closes in with other stuff. So even if they take damage, then someone else doesn't. So it's actually good that I do not overinvest into them.


Codex says they can ("any model can take an item from the death guard combi-weapon list"). Description on GW site just means that there's only going to be one combi-weapon in the box... which means I'll need to get the separate plasma guns after all.


Ah cool my mistake, still kinda lame that this not really cheap squad doesn't even come with weapons they can use lol.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 21:17:07


Post by: Pandabeer


mario88826 wrote:

Ah cool my mistake, still kinda lame that this not really cheap squad doesn't even come with weapons they can use lol.


Eh, I don't mind that much. Terminators of all kinds have a massive range of weapon options, getting 5 (standard squad size) of every option would only drive the price tag up further and leave me with a massive bunch of unused bitz that, as a true collector, I won't throw away. After all, I might need them in the year 3682 for that one conversion and then I won't have to desperately lament about why I threw them away back in 2017... so best not get them at all. Also, indirectly GW is even helping me keeping my small apartment livable because now only three-quarters will be occupied by Warhammer stuff instead of all of it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/25 22:02:39


Post by: Aleister_Dakka


Hey there,

I'm a newish player, trying to make a good Mortarion build. Trying to make the right choices before I buy... I'd like to get feedback on my list. I've only added up the model costs in Power, because that's what my LGS plays, but any C&C is welcome:

Death Guard - In Yer Face - 7 CP Total - 99 Power Total

1st Detachment - The Fast Attack One (Death Guard) +1 CP

Demon Prince with Wings, Double Claws, Suppurating Plate (Curse of the Leper, other stuff) - 8 power

3x Feotid Bloat Drones, Plaguespitter - 24 Power

2x 5 Blightlord Terminators, Combi-Bolter + Axe - 28 Power

1x Mortarion (with Miasma, other stuff) - 24 Power

2nd Detachment - Brigade (Alpha Legion)

Sorceror (with Warp Time and Prescience) - 6 power

3x 10 Cultists, each with the Stubber - 9 Power

Other changes I've considered are replacing the DP with Typhus, or replacing him with a Terminator Lord and upgrading Cultists to Plaguebearers. Any comments on those alternatives would be great too, particularly the survivability of Plaguebearers vs. Alpha Legion Cultists compared to the utility of the Cultist's ranged weapons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 01:26:26


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 Strat_N8 wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
broxus wrote:
What is really crazy 6 squads can put out 36 plasma shots a turn when they rapid fire at 18". That brings the pain for a reasonable price. They can be overcharged if needed depending on the target.


A reasonable price? You pay over 800 points for that. 20 helblasters will output 40 plasma shots for around 650 points and they can deploy in rapid fire range with the ravenguard stratagem.



To be fair, the 6 squads of Plague Marines fulfill the minimum requirements for 2x Battalions or the troop requirements of a Brigade while the Hellblasters at best fill out a Spearhead. Might not have the sheer destructive power of the specialists but they do net more command points in exchange.


Yeah, and if we are talking about strategems, then with the Alpha legion strategem, we can deploy shooty squads within rapid fire range too. 6 plague marine squads are filling up a troop requirement, not a FA slot or an elite slot. The fact that they come are comparable to a 20 man hellblaster squad is pretty good. They are a lot more resilient too since they got DR plus they are split into 6 squads. Opponent needs to seperately kill off just about every single model. The 20 model hellblastor squad can be killed with Morale if it takes 12 plus wounds.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 08:03:39


Post by: JeffVimes


What is your opinion on Daemon Prince equipement ? I know the talons are a favorite for normal dex flavor, but in the Death guard codex I feel like the loss of strength and AP is not worth the extra attacks.

Still can't get my around that Typhus is only 25 more points than a LoC. Doesn't seem logical to me but makes him pretty much auto include.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 09:24:39


Post by: snottlebocket


Dunno, I never even consider the lord of corruption as a choice. The regular chaos lord's rerolls seem a lot more valuable than the corruption's effect.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 09:50:49


Post by: JeffVimes


Sorry, I wasn't clear: Typhus for me is much more interesting than the LoC given the minimal price difference between the two.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 10:53:23


Post by: SilverAlien


broxus wrote:
What is really crazy 6 squads can put out 36 plasma shots a turn when they rapid fire at 18". That brings the pain for a reasonable price. They can be overcharged if needed depending on the target.


Sorta. Remember, 18" but can't fire and advance on a 5" unit will take time to get into range, unless you invest in rhinos. At which point havocs are way more efficient, as the durability isn't coming into play.

What we really needed for ranged PMs to work was the option for three of any of the guns in the squad. More specifically, three blight launchers so they could footslog and fire with most of the unit. Or even give them the option for assault bolters of some sort so at least you aren't just getting the two assault weapon's damage output.

broxus wrote:
@Silveralien Arch Contagian is an aura so it should be benefited from the helm. Also, I don't think that PM are bad, but are likely overpriced by a point or two. Finally, I agree about poxwalkers. I can see on occasion they could be awesome especially against conscript hordes using a strategem. However, they are just to slow and require to much babysitting Typhus and psychic abilites to be of any real value. If they were 5 points they may be worth it IMHO. However, I personally would rather take more PM, cultists, or Plaguebearers (the best of all troops in the book).


The helm does specify aura abilities on the datasheet though, not every aura the character has. Idk, I need to reread how warlord abilities work, I'm just not positive it works with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JeffVimes wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't clear: Typhus for me is much more interesting than the LoC given the minimal price difference between the two.


Yeah, I can't imagine why you'd run a LoC over typhus at this point, and even less why you'd ever want typhus and a LoC. The LoC really lacks a purpose though. Aura triggers at the start of your turn, so a deepstriking LoC won't do anything with it till your next turn, has no way to get into combat easily and nothing to do out of deepstrike except hope for a charge and sit there. At least typhus can use his psychic powers the turn he drops.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 14:02:32


Post by: snottlebocket


Has anyone considered a mechanised death guard force? Maybe a knight and a bunch of foetid drones and some infantry for objectives.

I’m loving the mental image of a swarm of those nasty drones bearing down on the enemy. Having a knight provides some nice target saturation for any AT weaponry.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 15:11:44


Post by: mario88826


 JeffVimes wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't clear: Typhus for me is much more interesting than the LoC given the minimal price difference between the two.
'

Ok here is how I see this stuff - yeah Typhus is better than Lord of Contagion in every aspect but 2 :

1. price and with access to manreaper we can get 137 lord which is 38 points less than typhus - he is worse, but yeah you save a bit.
2. Warlord trait - sadly Typhus ends up with least desirable warlord trait imaginable - and you have to take it. When Lord can actually pick same or whatever else he wants like archcontaminator. Lord can also pick relic like +3" to archcontaminator aura.

That being said - just don't make typhus Warlord and in that case Lord is hardly any match for Typhus.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 15:34:07


Post by: stratigo


snottlebocket wrote:
Has anyone considered a mechanised death guard force? Maybe a knight and a bunch of foetid drones and some infantry for objectives.

I’m loving the mental image of a swarm of those nasty drones bearing down on the enemy. Having a knight provides some nice target saturation for any AT weaponry.



It wouldn't be an awful idea to try out


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 16:06:55


Post by: Emicrania


Hi!

As I'm writing my list at 1500, to be the base for a 2k list, I was trying to figure out which is the best way to kit the blightlords. The plague spewer is a 9" weapon and you can DS at More than 9", does that means that you don't get to shoot in the turn you come in?

Also, I want the list to be shooty and with the grenade combo thanks to biologus+foul blightspawn+cp.
Also I want about 500 points worth of CC. Is the blight lords a good choice over the costly deathshroud?
Thanks!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 16:22:49


Post by: Octopoid


 Emicrania wrote:
The plague spewer is a 9" weapon and you can DS at More than 9", does that means that you don't get to shoot in the turn you come in?


That is, sadly, correct.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 17:58:47


Post by: SilverAlien


snottlebocket wrote:
Has anyone considered a mechanised death guard force? Maybe a knight and a bunch of foetid drones and some infantry for objectives.

I’m loving the mental image of a swarm of those nasty drones bearing down on the enemy. Having a knight provides some nice target saturation for any AT weaponry.


Well, the question is what does a mechanized DG force do that a normal csm army can't do better. Which is a fairly short list sadly. Drones with plague flamers are a niche that normal CSM doesn't really have. Our grenade spam stratagem is also unique. Both of those work in mechanized. Melee plague marines suffer from being compared to bezerkers, so that's kinda meh outside one unit for the grenades. Death shroud can actually fit with a lord in a land raider which is one of their only decent points. Probably the only way you'll ever see a unit earn back its points.

I think mechanized DG is one of our only strong builds, and even then it's not enough for an army it's more something you use alongside a CSM battalion.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 18:05:21


Post by: Pandabeer


 Emicrania wrote:
Hi!

As I'm writing my list at 1500, to be the base for a 2k list, I was trying to figure out which is the best way to kit the blightlords. The plague spewer is a 9" weapon and you can DS at More than 9", does that means that you don't get to shoot in the turn you come in?

Also, I want the list to be shooty and with the grenade combo thanks to biologus+foul blightspawn+cp.
Also I want about 500 points worth of CC. Is the blight lords a good choice over the costly deathshroud?
Thanks!


I'm personally going for full combi-plasma with a terminator lord (also with combi-plasma) to deepstrike with them for the reroll 1s to hit (for safe overcharging) for an alpha-strike unit that is also hard to get rid of (so hopefully they can fire for more than one turn). This is, however, quite expensive as it'll cost you a little over 400 points, about 290 for a 5-man combi-plasma Blightlord squad + 124 for the Terminator lord if you go for combi-plasma and a power sword (cheapest melee weapon option).

As for the Deathshroud, I really have a hard time imagining how I should use them. Yes, they're incredible in CC but they're sooo sloooowwww... They can't keep up with Mortarion (I guess you could deepstrike them in next to his position at the end of your first turns' movement phase if you can put them both within 3" of Morty and 9" away from enemy models to shield him from return fire by your opponent but those are some INCREDIBLY expensive 6 ablative wounds for a single turn because chances are they're going to do nothing for the remainder of the battle with their 4" movement and halved advances) and even deepstriking them in 9.1" away from your opponent is risky as you only have about 28% chance to make a 9" charge (more if you spend a CP for a reroll, but still very risky) and if you fail your opponent can kite you forever. The most effective way I can think of to field them is to put Typhus and 4 Deathshrouds in a Land Raider. Get the Land Raider as close as possible, then make full use of the extra 3" of movement that disembarking grants you to get in an optimal charging position and then wreck stuff in CC. The problem with this setup is that it will cost you a little over 800 points, so if your LR is destroyed before it gets its cargo in position you might as well forfeit in any games below 3k points.

edit: Hm, forgot something. As was mentioned above, the easiest way to get Deathshrouds into CC is probably to deepstrike them together with a CSM jump pack Sorcerer with Warptime. This foregoes their role as bodyguards however, as Warptime can only be cast one unit per turn (hm, unless you use it to charge to a unit Morty has already engaged... that's pretty powerful now that I think of it). I personally dislike this way of fielding them as it's incredibly unfluffy, but if that's no problem for you go for it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
Has anyone considered a mechanised death guard force? Maybe a knight and a bunch of foetid drones and some infantry for objectives.

I’m loving the mental image of a swarm of those nasty drones bearing down on the enemy. Having a knight provides some nice target saturation for any AT weaponry.


Well, the question is what does a mechanized DG force do that a normal csm army can't do better. Which is a fairly short list sadly. Drones with plague flamers are a niche that normal CSM doesn't really have. Our grenade spam stratagem is also unique. Both of those work in mechanized. Melee plague marines suffer from being compared to bezerkers, so that's kinda meh outside one unit for the grenades. Death shroud can actually fit with a lord in a land raider which is one of their only decent points. Probably the only way you'll ever see a unit earn back its points.

I think mechanized DG is one of our only strong builds, and even then it's not enough for an army it's more something you use alongside a CSM battalion.



One other point: We can field a 156 point tank (Plagueburst Crawler with 2x Entropy Cannon and Heavy Slugger) that, point for point, almost matches the firepower of a Predator Annihilator but is almost twice as tough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JeffVimes wrote:
What is your opinion on Daemon Prince equipement ? I know the talons are a favorite for normal dex flavor, but in the Death guard codex I feel like the loss of strength and AP is not worth the extra attacks.

Still can't get my around that Typhus is only 25 more points than a LoC. Doesn't seem logical to me but makes him pretty much auto include.


I use mine with the axe. S8 and AP-3 are too good to pass up for dealing with TEQ and medium vehicles (which mostly have T7), which are the primary targets you'd want to send a DP after.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 20:09:40


Post by: mario88826


Idk I think axe really sucks on DP. What it gives is not worth it.

First of all not all 5 attacks will be used with axe - but only 4.
Second is -1 to hit.
Which screw me is garbage - as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.

Overall axe is by far worst.

2x talon gives 7 attacks with solid ap and damage without any drawbacks.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/26 21:06:14


Post by: Pandabeer


mario88826 wrote:
Idk I think axe really sucks on DP. What it gives is not worth it.

First of all not all 5 attacks will be used with axe - but only 4.
Second is -1 to hit.
Which screw me is garbage - as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.

Overall axe is by far worst.

2x talon gives 7 attacks with solid ap and damage without any drawbacks.


Lol you're right, I didn't realize that the axe cannot generate DTFE because it can at most roll a 5 to hit... Ho hum. Time to practice my plague surgeon skills on my poor DP model to replace his axe for a second talon I'm afraid.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 01:12:37


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I just saw Reecius's battle report. His space wolves got crushed by melee deathguard.@@ That was a rather surprising battle report. I wouldn't have believed that melee deathguard is so resilient and good. But I believe Reece is a really good player and wouldn't have made any newbie mistakes. So, either his dice rolls weren't with him, or melee deathguard is a lot better than what I expected.

The deathguard strategy was Mortarion flying up unsupported on one flank, while the main body was mostly melee. Had a big squad of pox walkers plodding up which he buffed with the -1 to hit psychic power and the +1 toughness psychic power, plus Typhus. So the pox walkers were -1 to hit, and T5, with DR. Then he used the strategem that protects his big squad of plague marines from shooting (opponent then basically has to shoot something else other than that melee plague marine squad). The rest were mostly all characters (be it the elite ones, or typhus or DP). So, the opponent simply didn't have any good targets.

Reecius eventually managed to kill off the pox walker squad, but by then, the entire main deathguard army was upon him. Mortarion unsupported didn't even die. But even if he did, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of that battle report. Reecius's game was over once the main deathguard army hit his battle line. Mortarion in this case was literally a big massive bullet magnet (ie, distraction carnefix). before turn 3, Mortarion only killed one cheap vehicle and one cheap squad in the vehicle. (And he had the help of a flying DP who was casting warptime on him too).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 03:45:09


Post by: mario88826


Pandabeer wrote:
mario88826 wrote:
Idk I think axe really sucks on DP. What it gives is not worth it.

First of all not all 5 attacks will be used with axe - but only 4.
Second is -1 to hit.
Which screw me is garbage - as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.

Overall axe is by far worst.

2x talon gives 7 attacks with solid ap and damage without any drawbacks.


Lol you're right, I didn't realize that the axe cannot generate DTFE because it can at most roll a 5 to hit... Ho hum. Time to practice my plague surgeon skills on my poor DP model to replace his axe for a second talon I'm afraid.


No don't unless you play with douchebags, they will let you "proxy".
I use nurgle prince model from GW that comes with sword. All i claim sword is for show and he swings with his hands(talons) instead. And that is not that big strech since he in fact swings with his hand which is same as other one . Better than cutting off sword lol , if someone question this - i don't play him. really Since he basically would force me to butcher my model, so he doesn't hold sword. Same with plague marines - if I don't want fist - I just claim he just got big bloated by disease hand.

Because what else I can do except for conversion ? Daemon Prince of Nurgle comes only with sword option and both PM champions from Dark Imperium and Easy to build always have fist - and I do have option to take one without fist. In codex ... unitil new kit comes - that is best you can do.

So it's not proxing , more like free interpretation.

I don't add equipement via proxy, just claim i don't have it. I don't like to proxy stuff I don't have, but that is different story.

Hopefully noone will have problem with you doing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I just saw Reece's battle report. His space wolves got crushed by melee deathguard.@@ That was a rather surprising battle report. I wouldn't have believed that melee deathguard is so resilient and good. But I believe Reece is a really good player and wouldn't have made any newbie mistakes. So, either his dice rolls weren't with him, or melee deathguard is a lot better than what I expected.

The deathguard strategy was Mortarion flying up unsupported on one flank, while the main body was mostly melee. Had a big squad of pox walkers plodding up which he buffed with the -1 to hit psychic power and the +1 toughness psychic power, plus Typhus. So the pox walkers were -1 to hit, and T5, with DR. Then he used the strategem that protects his big squad of plague marines from shooting (opponent then basically has to shoot something else other than that melee plague marine squad). The rest were mostly all characters (be it the elite ones, or typhus or DP). So, the opponent simply didn't have any good targets.

Reece eventually managed to kill off the pox walker squad, but by then, the entire main deathguard army was upon him. Mortarion unsupported didn't even die. But even if he did, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of that battle report. Reece's game was over once the main deathguard army hit his battle line. Mortarion in this case was literally a big massive bullet magnet (ie, distraction carnefix). before turn 3, Mortarion only killed one cheap vehicle and one cheap squad in the vehicle. (And he had the help of a flying DP who was casting warptime on him too).


Well I think they are good players.

But really hard to judge from one game - we need tons of games to actually get any real info about performance. Few random games can easily be decided by dice rolls.

I saw this game. Honestly could go way better for SW player if rolls were different.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 04:21:10


Post by: Eldenfirefly


The same deathguard list apparently managed to table a horde Tzeentch brimstone list too. So, its a lot more flexible than I thought.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 05:18:01


Post by: Obeisance


Which list?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 07:13:07


Post by: Eldenfirefly


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/739921.page

See the link. They posted the battle report I mentioned (deathguard vs spacewolves) on dakka battlereport forums too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 09:14:17


Post by: broxus


 JeffVimes wrote:
What is your opinion on Daemon Prince equipement ? I know the talons are a favorite for normal dex flavor, but in the Death guard codex I feel like the loss of strength and AP is not worth the extra attacks.

Still can't get my around that Typhus is only 25 more points than a LoC. Doesn't seem logical to me but makes him pretty much auto include.


Did I miss something I was tracking the STR and AP of the sword vs talons are the same. The only diffrence is one is D3 and the other is D2 (with more attacks). I don't even remember the axe being an option in the DG codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a quick question for the best power weapon choice for my blightlord terminators. I will be giving one guy the mace of contagion. However, the big question is should I give the other 4 terminators either axes or swords. In this forum it seems like the consensus is that the axe is the better option. However why? When I drop in my blightlords, Typhus will be with them and likely always casting Purtrescent Vitality and Blades of Putrefaction on them increasing their Str and wound rolls. Not to mention they will be near Mortarian who is reducing enemy units toughness. Finally, I like giving my SM opponents only a 6+ save with the -3 AP sword and even better no save when I roll a 6 with aura of rust.

So how does the math work out or what are the scenarios that the axe is better? The only instance is if my terminators are attacking T8 vehicles and I am not supported by any characters or psychic abilites/strategems.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 09:51:23


Post by: Pilau Rice


mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 10:09:43


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.

Death to the False Emperor triggers on a hit roll of a 6+.
If you have a -1 to hit weapon, you can no longer naturally benefit from this rule.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 10:10:05


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.


DTFE is death to the false emperor. If you roll a 6 on your to hit in close combat, you will generate another attack (but that attack can no longer generate any more additional hits from DTFE). But if you have a -1 on your to hit roll, then the best you can manage is a 5, it is impossible for you to get a 6 because of the -1 now. Hence what he means when he says that you are now no longer able to even generate DTFE. Hope this helps.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 12:12:14


Post by: Wayniac


So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 12:36:13


Post by: Pilau Rice


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.

Death to the False Emperor triggers on a hit roll of a 6+.
If you have a -1 to hit weapon, you can no longer naturally benefit from this rule.


I thought that's what he meant but wasn't sure, thanks.

Wow.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 13:06:49


Post by: Wayniac


 Pilau Rice wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.

Death to the False Emperor triggers on a hit roll of a 6+.
If you have a -1 to hit weapon, you can no longer naturally benefit from this rule.


I thought that's what he meant but wasn't sure, thanks.

Wow.


Yeah, it's the drawback to GW making modifiers apply to the die roll, not the target. It's clearly intentional, but goes against common sense when people think of a modifier.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 13:15:23


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 13:17:48


Post by: Wayniac


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Yeah, everyone just seems focused on spamming poxwalkers and/or cultists and ignoring marines, at least plague marines seem to be fairly well in some cases.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 13:30:00


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 13:41:03


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


That is the risk/reward with any army though. Literally all armies have this concept applied to them in some fashion.

The Rhino is surprisingly tough, especially if you bring a bunch. It isn't that easy to stop 4+ Rhinos as it used to be. Might be worth it if we saturate them with targets.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 14:47:50


Post by: Bremon


List building with a friend who plays DG, discussing tactics, mathhammer and theoryhammer and so far I’ve come to the conclusion that bloat drones are one of the standouts of the codex. 3 flying up a flank with some combo of flamers and mower and it can really buzz through units, survive a pile of shooting and suck fire away from your main force.

A pair of plagueburst crawlers also seem ideal; the mortar aspect of it makes it tempting to deploy it out of the way but I think it’s best used deployed up front and centre. They are ridiculously durable, and you can maximize the effectiveness of your sponson cancer-rockets. It’s also a bit more intimidating having them up front so helps set up either a bit of area-denial, or begs the opponent to focus on them. It won’t work against everyone but any distraction that can take attention away from the infantry marching up the board I feel is worth it.

In contrast, the haulers really seem mediocre. The firepower just isn’t there and the cover buff doesn’t blow me away.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 14:57:23


Post by: snottlebocket


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


That is the risk/reward with any army though. Literally all armies have this concept applied to them in some fashion.

The Rhino is surprisingly tough, especially if you bring a bunch. It isn't that easy to stop 4+ Rhinos as it used to be. Might be worth it if we saturate them with targets.


The problem with rhino's is that the filling is so expensive for death guard. You're looking at an easy 400+ points for just a squad of death guard and a support elite.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 15:03:32


Post by: Bremon


We are only playing 1k right now but 1k-1500 lists we’ve been thinking about it seems if you have a rhino or two and they don’t make it; who cares. The drones get there intact then, if the drones get targeted they likely survive anyway and the rhinos make it. Once the rhinos unload they’d basically be used to tie up shooty units in combat to force them to lock in combat or fall back without being able to shoot. The drones are the real stars of the show, while the plague marines that hopefully make it are fire support, and boots on the ground for objective secured; one flail and then basic 2 knife guys to tie into enemy chaff, or boltguns and a launcher or two to park in cover. Target saturation is the key to arriving alive.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 15:03:34


Post by: gwarsh41


SilverAlien wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
Has anyone considered a mechanised death guard force? Maybe a knight and a bunch of foetid drones and some infantry for objectives.

I’m loving the mental image of a swarm of those nasty drones bearing down on the enemy. Having a knight provides some nice target saturation for any AT weaponry.


Well, the question is what does a mechanized DG force do that a normal csm army can't do better. Which is a fairly short list sadly. Drones with plague flamers are a niche that normal CSM doesn't really have. Our grenade spam stratagem is also unique. Both of those work in mechanized. Melee plague marines suffer from being compared to bezerkers, so that's kinda meh outside one unit for the grenades. Death shroud can actually fit with a lord in a land raider which is one of their only decent points. Probably the only way you'll ever see a unit earn back its points.

I think mechanized DG is one of our only strong builds, and even then it's not enough for an army it's more something you use alongside a CSM battalion.



Daemon engines with Epidemius can be pretty terrifying. You will want to dip your toes into FW for a few things like a decimator though or plague hulk though. You will want a big blob of something to tie up melee units. Poxwalkers, or 30 plaguebearers work well for this.


I got to put Mortarion on the table last night. My opponent did the knee jerk reaction of facing a mid range/assault army, and they made a castle. Turns out mortarion is excellent at breaking castles down. I had 13 units inside 7" on the turn I charged. Several of which were characters. Because he was so bunched up, he either could run, and have his heavy weapons hit on -2 (thank you miasma) or go all out on trying to kill morty. So at the beginning of his shooting phase, I blew 3CP to use Nurgles Rot, as I noticed it just says "in the shooting phase" no, "in your shooting phase". Hitting 11 units this time, and taking out 2 of his characters. Morty didn't die to shooting, and in the fight phase the aura procced again.
The -1 toughness and mortal wounds was decimating against a T3 army. Even though I have read about how hard it is to keep up with mortarion, it was much harder than I expected.


I also wanted to get some feedback on the comparison between the Myphitic Blight Hauler, and the Greater Blight Drone. The blight drones seem to be in a bit of an odd spot since 8th dropped. Going from light anti infantry flyer, to basically an autocannon predator with the FLY keyword. The Blight drone is about 60pt more than the blight hauler, has fly, doesn't ignore penalty for moving/shooting it's main gun, but has BS3, so its the same assuming you moved. It has 4 more wounds, but it has a damage chart.
First glance, the Blight Hauler is coming out on top for me. But are either of them really decent compared to a Predator?

An autocannon/HB predator is 40pt less than a blight drone, and has much better long range firepower. Blight drone has 3 attacks in CC, with a pistol for D3 more, which are ok against elite infantry, but the predators firepower, and cheaper point cost seems to just be better. Blight drone has mobility and durability on the pred, but I'm not sure that is really worth it.

A twin las/heavy bolter predator is about 20pt more than the Blight hauler, has better consistent firepower, but lacks the resiliency from the ++5, DG and -1 to hit in fight phase. If you bring 3 they get better, but its still hard to figure how they will be used on the battlefield.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 15:11:24


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


snottlebocket wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


That is the risk/reward with any army though. Literally all armies have this concept applied to them in some fashion.

The Rhino is surprisingly tough, especially if you bring a bunch. It isn't that easy to stop 4+ Rhinos as it used to be. Might be worth it if we saturate them with targets.


The problem with rhino's is that the filling is so expensive for death guard. You're looking at an easy 400+ points for just a squad of death guard and a support elite.


What support Elite? That is not mandatory. I managed to fit four Squads with Rhinos into a list clocking in at 261pt each. Not max squads, of course. The Chaos Lord and Plaguecaster are support HQs, but required anyhow. Backed it up with Mowers and Crawlers. Not sure if it is remotely viable, but it looks fun and goes heavy on the CC option.

Craptastic List
Spoiler:

HQ:
Chaos Lord
Supportating Plate, Arch-Contaminator
Balesword
[80]

Malignant Plaguecaster
[110]

Troops:
(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[196]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[196]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[196]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist
[189]

Dedicated Transports:
Chaos Rhino
2x Combi-Bolter
[74]

Chaos Rhino
2x Combi-Bolter
[74]

Chaos Rhino
Combi-Bolter
[72]

Chaos Rhino
Combi-Bolter
[72]

Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-Drone
Fleshmower, Probe
[136]

Foetid Bloat-Drone
Fleshmower, Probe
[136]

Heavy:
Plagueburst Crawler
2x Entropy, Slugger
[156]

Plagueburst Crawler
2x Entropy, Slugger
[156]

Plagueburst Crawler
2x Entropy, Slugger
[156]

[1999]


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 16:29:43


Post by: Emicrania


So, I've been crunching up some numbers and I came up with a list that satisfy my play style and looks menacing enough. I have a doubt if play Typhus or not as using a normal lord of contagion free up the points to put in a unit of nurglings that is great for object grabbing.
The idea is to dedicate about 75% of the list to shooting.
Do you think I succedeed?
Spoiler:



++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Fugaris' Helm, Malefic talon, Plague Wind

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Nurglings: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers: 19x Poxwalker

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy blight launcher, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy blight launcher, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Lord of Contagion: Manreaper

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier: Plague knife

Blightlord Terminators
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Reaper autocannon
. Blightlord Terminator Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma

Foul Blightspawn


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 16:49:22


Post by: Nightlord1987


Try to summon in those nurglings. Not worth losing Inexorable Advance (or whatever its called). With only PL3 should be super easy.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 16:56:24


Post by: sfshilo


Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


Possessed are faster anyway and can be buffed by Deamons.

PM are really shooty now not CC. Which is a shame because they used to be decent at both.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 17:19:30


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


 sfshilo wrote:


PM are really shooty now not CC. Which is a shame because they used to be decent at both.


Right, I get that. But for those of us trying to go for a CC approach, what is working? What is viable?

I tried with a list that had mobility and CC. Not sure it is any good! Thoughts on it?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 17:20:43


Post by: Wayniac


FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 17:32:23


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Let us know how that rolls. I want to run that pretty badly because I love the idea and hope it isn't awful!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 17:43:06


Post by: broxus


Axes or Swords?

I have a quick question for the best power weapon choice for my blightlord terminators. I will be giving one guy the mace of contagion. However, the big question is should I give the other 4 terminators either axes or swords. In this forum it seems like the consensus is that the axe is the better option. However why? When I drop in my blightlords, Typhus will be with them and likely always casting Purtrescent Vitality and Blades of Putrefaction on them increasing their Str and wound rolls. Not to mention they will be near Mortarian who is reducing enemy units toughness. Finally, I like giving my SM opponents only a 6+ save with the -3 AP sword and even better no save when I roll a 6 with aura of rust.

So how does the math work out or what are the scenarios that the axe is better? The only instance is if my terminators are attacking T8 vehicles and I am not supported by any characters or psychic abilites/strategems.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 19:23:27


Post by: Wayniac


Axes seem to be better than swords in every way from everything I've read. Don't have the math or have tried it myself to verify, however.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 19:47:45


Post by: Emicrania


Wayniac wrote:
Axes seem to be better than swords in every way from everything I've read. Don't have the math or have tried it myself to verify, however.


EDIT:

Vs Anything worst than a SM the sword is better (<T4).
Vs Sm or better the Axe means more dead models.

My math comes from: http://www.mathhammer8thed.com
If I am wrong I apologize and please illustrate me a better way >


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 21:20:26


Post by: gwarsh41


Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Toss a foul blightspawn in with them to protect them from death via charges and help melt stuff that gets in the way with it's flamer. Maybe deep strike a lord of contagion within 7 of a few units to help stack up some mortal wounds!
It is a shame we cannot take razorbacks, I feel like plague marines would be great in them!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 22:07:16


Post by: Emicrania


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Toss a foul blightspawn in with them to protect them from death via charges and help melt stuff that gets in the way with it's flamer. Maybe deep strike a lord of contagion within 7 of a few units to help stack up some mortal wounds!
It is a shame we cannot take razorbacks, I feel like plague marines would be great in them!


A unit of 6 blight termi with one flail and 5 axe makes more 0,7 W vs T6 and 0,8 W vs T7; they are a rhino and a model, which result in 11 W more. At the same time 100 bolters are 3,7W, 1 dead termi vs 7,4 W and 7 dead PM

Vs 10 plasma that means that 2 PM goes down but 1 terminator and 3W cost us more point wise.

This teaches me 2 things: we are resilient asf and plasma vs terminator still makes us cry

In the end they have a really similar outcome for being infantry and the decision is really personal, more than tactical. Yes a rhino might put you in CC as alpha strike easier than the terminators, but they can blow you up your rhino easy if you don't go first, leaving you a long way to go, having 1/2 d6"+1 advantage on the terminators.

I didn't check the deathsrhoud because they are so overpriced it is ridiculous.

Really, we are really really hard to bring down. Dad loves us with his putriescence


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 22:26:31


Post by: SilverAlien


Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


You can take a few in a battalion than use some of the non troop detachments to fill out the army.

If you asking about using plague marines instead, they are still bad. Not laughably bad like in the index, they are a decent troop choice in more casual games, but nothing you'd want to invest points into in more serious play.

With a few exceptions (the single rhino melee grenade unit) they are generally outclassed by all of the other cult units point for point. Noise marines are better as footsloggers with assault weapons, bezerkers put more pain out in melee, and rubrics are usually tougher and have better overall firepower. And cultists/poxwalkers are better for cheaply filling out battalions.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 22:36:00


Post by: Wayniac


SilverAlien wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


You can take a few in a battalion than use some of the non troop detachments to fill out the army.

If you asking about using plague marines instead, they are still bad. Not laughably bad like in the index, they are a decent troop choice in more casual games, but nothing you'd want to invest points into in more serious play.

With a few exceptions (the single rhino melee grenade unit) they are generally outclassed by all of the other cult units point for point. Noise marines are better as footsloggers with assault weapons, bezerkers put more pain out in melee, and rubrics are usually tougher and have better overall firepower. And cultists/poxwalkers are better for cheaply filling out battalions.


Yeah I have absolutely no plans to play 40k "more serious" because I've seen how lists are built and it doesn't appeal one bit to me, I like plague marines and want to build an army around them as an actual core, not have a few token guys while playing The Walking Dead.

My 7-man squad would have a Biologus Putrifier and a Blightspawn going along with them in a Rhino for some grenade fun, I think. Have to try it out, waiting on the kits to release finally.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 22:44:31


Post by: DarklyDreaming


Considering the Blightlords weapons per se, the axe is far better (rerollin 1s means we must invest in wound rolls ofc); BUT with the blade of putrefaction/VoTLW combo you wound on a 1+ against the common T4, which is a waste, so better the sword for a juicy ap 3/4... BUT it's no guaranteed you wil always have those two bonuses, maybe you need CP for other stuff or the power gets denied, so I prefer the axes to be safe... AND have you saw those swords? The shape is awful, like some toys, while the axes have a gory, butcher type of feeling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do you think about the spawns? They always gave me joys playing black legion, but are they really so weak compared to the bloat drones?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/27 23:07:17


Post by: SilverAlien


Axes are also a point cheaper for some reason I've yet to determine. Typo maybe?

As for chaos spawn, I'm not sure what they offer over a melee bloat drone. When you factor in mutations they do put out more damage against most targets, less against t 7 or when they roll the AP -4 mutation against a 4+ Or less save, but they are a lot more fragile. More wounds for their cost, but lower save, no invilnerable save, lower toughness, and no DR. Also slower and they can't fly.

I suppose a large unit being buffed with psychic powers could be useful, as a unit of 6 can be exceptionally nasty with the right buffs, but that's really it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 01:08:51


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I feel that part of the issue of playing mechanised death guard is that you essentially decide for the opponent that the Rhinos will be targeted. Firstly, they contain a lot of points in them (be it plague marines or elite characters or both).

Secondly, many deathguard vehicles like hauler, bloat drone, etc all have DR. Having one or more Rhinos in your list alongside other deathguard vehicles makes it easy for the opponent. Because its gonna be far easier to kill a Rhino that doesnt have DR than to kill say a bloat drone, or a Hauler, or a crawler. Not to mention the fact that he isn't just killing 70 plus points of Rhino. He is depriving your plague marines of a fast ride, and if some die from emergency disembark, then its even more points he just killed. Its almost a no brainer. Unless you have an even higher priority target like Mortarion on the board. I think it might work... if you skip most of the rest of the deathguard vehicles. That means you go Mortarion plus all Rhinos. Forget about bloat drones and the rest. Or if you don't have Mortarion, then just full Rhinos with melee plague marines.

It might work actually. Although... are you totally forgoing bubblewrap pox walkers or cultists? Because if you are, some deep strike shooting is really dangerous and without proper bubble wrap, you are going to let the opponent shoot you very efficiently too (scions, deepstrike termis, etc etc). I mean, a scion deep strike squad with full plasma or full meltas is under 100 points? No bubble wrap in favour of Rhinos means that if the opponent gets the jump strike on you, your Rhinos are going to be super vulnerable. Even for CSM, a 10 man terminator plasma squad is 500 points but can pump out 20 plasma shots (and then with cacophony strategem, can do it again). So, potentially 40 plasma shots. That's 80 potential wounds if overcharged, and that would probably kill off all rhinos you have on the board if they are all within plasma double tap range (and without bubble wrap, they will be).

You almost have to go first to stand a better chance, but in practise, Going first is 50:50.

It might be worth exploring though. Because a move advanced Rhino is one of the few things that can keep up with a Mortarion (though not a warp timed Mortarion).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 07:20:48


Post by: nfe


Really struggling with anti-armour. What have people been having success with?

I've tried Blight Haulers (both in threes and ones) but the 4+ really makes them ineffective with only two shots (and at least one model is always lost in the first turn so the 3+ rarely lasts).

PBC - same 4+ deal.

Deathshrouds delete tanks with ease, but that's no use unless someone absent mindedly leaves a gap for you to deepstrike into and you take a CSM sorcerer.

I like melta-Blightlords as an idea but it makes them a near-300 point 1-trick pony because they're not likely to get to shoot any more vehicles after their first go (unless you're playing an armour gunline). Plus, with good screening, they're not getting to shoot a tank on the turn they deepstrike anyway.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 08:46:34


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Have Mortarion fly up and smash their vehicles to bits.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 09:34:56


Post by: nfe


I'm not (and wont be) using Mortarion. I'd actually forgotten about Hellbrutes (because the model is so horrible I shut them out my mind, I guess) so that might be an option I suppose.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 09:36:36


Post by: TremendousZ


Eldenfirefly wrote:
I feel that part of the issue of playing mechanised death guard is that you essentially decide for the opponent that the Rhinos will be targeted. Firstly, they contain a lot of points in them (be it plague marines or elite characters or both).

Secondly, many deathguard vehicles like hauler, bloat drone, etc all have DR. Having one or more Rhinos in your list alongside other deathguard vehicles makes it easy for the opponent. Because its gonna be far easier to kill a Rhino that doesnt have DR than to kill say a bloat drone, or a Hauler, or a crawler. Not to mention the fact that he isn't just killing 70 plus points of Rhino. He is depriving your plague marines of a fast ride, and if some die from emergency disembark, then its even more points he just killed. Its almost a no brainer. Unless you have an even higher priority target like Mortarion on the board. I think it might work... if you skip most of the rest of the deathguard vehicles. That means you go Mortarion plus all Rhinos. Forget about bloat drones and the rest. Or if you don't have Mortarion, then just full Rhinos with melee plague marines.

It might work actually. Although... are you totally forgoing bubblewrap pox walkers or cultists? Because if you are, some deep strike shooting is really dangerous and without proper bubble wrap, you are going to let the opponent shoot you very efficiently too (scions, deepstrike termis, etc etc). I mean, a scion deep strike squad with full plasma or full meltas is under 100 points? No bubble wrap in favour of Rhinos means that if the opponent gets the jump strike on you, your Rhinos are going to be super vulnerable. Even for CSM, a 10 man terminator plasma squad is 500 points but can pump out 20 plasma shots (and then with cacophony strategem, can do it again). So, potentially 40 plasma shots. That's 80 potential wounds if overcharged, and that would probably kill off all rhinos you have on the board if they are all within plasma double tap range (and without bubble wrap, they will be).

You almost have to go first to stand a better chance, but in practise, Going first is 50:50.

It might be worth exploring though. Because a move advanced Rhino is one of the few things that can keep up with a Mortarion (though not a warp timed Mortarion).


I always fill the rhinos and LR with the poxwalkers to try to counteract this. Then have a NBB help any Plague marines advance up the table.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 09:49:20


Post by: Eldenfirefly


huh ?? @@ So, your pox walkers get to ride in LR and Rhinos while your plague marines foot slog? @@


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 09:52:06


Post by: nfe


That's a new one, certainly! I do like the idea of poxwalkers flooding out of landraiders though. Like those guys boobytrapping trucks with zombies in The Walking Dead.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 10:10:52


Post by: Eldenfirefly


but... LR can only take 10 models. They won't exactly be flooding out of the LR. lol Not unless its a forgeworld Spartan or something.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 12:08:28


Post by: SilverAlien


Yeah, poxwalkers don't really justify the cost of a rhino, god forbid a land raider, with their melee ability. Even buffed by typhus a unit of 10 kills like 4 guardsmen a turn. That's going to slow going, clearing through enemy infantry.

Just the 4 flails from two five man PM squads output kill 8 per turn for comparison.

Honestly, running pure DG, I'm pretty sure our core has to be demon engines or vehicles. More specifically a mixture of drones, plagueburst crawlers, helbrutes and predators. Everything else is either ineffective outside very specific roles (poxwalkers/cultists/PM) or way to expensive to be taken in sigifcant numbers (blight lord terminators).

Which isn't that bad all things considered. They fill most of the roles we need.

The thing I keep coming back to is we are way better support than a main army. I usually say support for CSM, but we work even for nurgle demons. Cultists/poxwalkers can provide obj secured as demons can't currently get it. Plagueburst crawlers can add much better long range anti tank than anything demons natively have while still working well with epidemius. Mortarion works better with them and some plague drones taking advantage of his -T aura to mulch chaff. We can even provide some deepstrike with blightlords so they don't have to rely entirely on summoning for that.

Then again, I say support but what I just mentioned does amount to roughly half a 2000 point army. I suppose it's also a bit silly to complain about pure DG not being viable when almost every army works better mixing right now, even pure CSM usually uses two or more legions.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 13:15:50


Post by: Wayniac


So I am trying to decide if I should keep 2 blight-haulers in my list for some extra anti-tank (at the cost of having to wait what, another 3 weeks?) or dropping them and taking a unit of Blightlord Terminators, so I'll have both Deathshroud (with lord of contagion) and Blightlords deep striking in, along with a CC plague marine squad in Rhino w/Putrifier and Blightspawn, two shooty Marine Squads, 18 poxwalkers (as a screen/chaff), and then two Plagueburst Crawlers.

Not gonna lie, that double terminator list sounds really cool.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 13:27:44


Post by: Bremon


I know most people like the idea of new models and tend to be swayed by the more unique models in a range but from what I can tell the most reliable anti-tank is a pair of Predators.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 13:35:24


Post by: SilverAlien


I'd say go with the blight lords myself. While the blight haulers are tougher on paper, blight lords end up being harder to kill in practice. Weapons like lascannons are overkill against blight lords but classic terminator counters like plasma fail due to wounding on a 3+ vs 2+ and DR making a single unsaved shot statistically more likely to deal a single or no wounds than it is to kill the terminator outright. A great distraction, particularly if you toss a flail and/or autocannon on them so the enemy is desperate to kill the entire unit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 13:38:37


Post by: Wayniac


SilverAlien wrote:
I'd say go with the blight lords myself. While the blight haulers are tougher on paper, blight lords end up being harder to kill in practice. Weapons like lascannons are overkill against blight lords but classic terminator counters like plasma fail due to wounding on a 3+ vs 2+ and DR making a single unsaved shot statistically more likely to deal a single or no wounds than it is to kill the terminator outright. A great distraction, particularly if you toss a flail and/or autocannon on them so the enemy is desperate to kill the entire unit.


Yeah, also just the thought of blightlords and deathshroud with a Lord of Contagion dropping in seems really fun. I can always buy the blight haulers and see how they work later too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 14:00:22


Post by: SilverAlien


Bremon wrote:
I know most people like the idea of new models and tend to be swayed by the more unique models in a range but from what I can tell the most reliable anti-tank is a pair of Predators.


Predators are, without a doubt, better anti tank for their points than plagueburst crawlers. The main advantage the crawlers have is that they are much harder to kill and cheaper. They also benefit more from synergy, both with DG and nurgle demons.

Generally, a crawler buffed by a chaos lord with arch contaminator runs at about 2/3rds the damage of a las predator buffed by a chaos lord. They cost 156 points vs 190 points. So three crawlers at 468 vs two predators at 380. For less than 100 points (and locking your warlord trait in), you've got DR on all three, an extra 14 wounds between the extra tank and the additional wound each has, invulnerable saves, and an extra point of toughness. Even just looking at the DR and extra wounds, it takes 54 unsaved wounds to kill three blightcrawlers vs 22 for two predators. For what amounts to a 25% increase in cost you are getting an almost 150% increase in durability.

For secondary benefits, the crawlers are more useful than las predators if the enemy doesn't bring much heavy armor, as the weapons are marginally better versus heavy infantry, come equipped with a heavy slugger by default, and can be used to tie up melee units if they really aren't good for anything else. They also benefit from buffs granted by demons, mainly useful for the healing psychic power as we can't run warpsmiths to heal our predators.

Again though, the main thing is: Three blight crawlers put out the same rough damage as two predators, cost 125% of the cost for 250% of the durability. That's a steal.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 14:03:38


Post by: Bremon


That’s a good point, plus the crawler has the rule of cool in it’s favour as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 14:23:21


Post by: SilverAlien


Bremon wrote:
That’s a good point, plus the crawler has the rule of cool in it’s favour as well.


Though it also costs around 200$ for a set of three while all of us likely have a couple predators, so that's a practical issue.

In my case I'm going to slap some sponsons on a vindicator and call it a conversion until I can get a full set. They are already painted as DG/nurgle tanks complete with vague green drippings from the cannon.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 14:47:16


Post by: gwarsh41


 Emicrania wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Toss a foul blightspawn in with them to protect them from death via charges and help melt stuff that gets in the way with it's flamer. Maybe deep strike a lord of contagion within 7 of a few units to help stack up some mortal wounds!
It is a shame we cannot take razorbacks, I feel like plague marines would be great in them!


A unit of 6 blight termi with one flail and 5 axe makes more 0,7 W vs T6 and 0,8 W vs T7; they are a rhino and a model, which result in 11 W more. At the same time 100 bolters are 3,7W, 1 dead termi vs 7,4 W and 7 dead PM

Vs 10 plasma that means that 2 PM goes down but 1 terminator and 3W cost us more point wise.

This teaches me 2 things: we are resilient asf and plasma vs terminator still makes us cry

In the end they have a really similar outcome for being infantry and the decision is really personal, more than tactical. Yes a rhino might put you in CC as alpha strike easier than the terminators, but they can blow you up your rhino easy if you don't go first, leaving you a long way to go, having 1/2 d6"+1 advantage on the terminators.

I didn't check the deathsrhoud because they are so overpriced it is ridiculous.

Really, we are really really hard to bring down. Dad loves us with his putriescence


Thanks for doing the math on that! It's good to know both are pretty decent options, as I've been torn between which I would rather run.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 16:08:46


Post by: Milkshaker


SilverAlien wrote:

Predators are, without a doubt, better anti tank for their points than plagueburst crawlers.


On what math is this based? for instance (please correct me if I'm wrong, my math isn't always that great):

VS rhino (1 round of shooting, stationary):
____________2,66667 hits
____________1,77778 succesful wound rolls
____________0,29693 succesful saves (0,1667 saves per wound * 1,7778 wounds = 0,29693 succesful saves)
this leaves___ 1,48182 unsaved wounds (1,7778 wounds - 0,29693 succesful saves)
damage_____ 5,18519 damage dealt (1,48182 unsaved wounds * 3,5 average damage of a D6)

With the points of a laspred, this is 0,0273 wounds per point spent.

plagueburst crawler with 2 ectoplasm cannons, plagueburst mortar, heavy slugger: an average of 4,4815 damage dealt in a single round
using the same technique for calculating wounds/damage as the calculation above:

2x ectoplasm:____________________________________2,3333 damage dealt after saves
1x plagueburst mortar with 3.5 shots (reroll 1 to wound):__1,8148 damage dealt after saves
1x heavy slugger:_________________________________0,3333 damage dealt after saves
total damage:____________________________________4,4815

With the total points of this plagueburst crawler, that means an effectiveness of 0,0287 wounds per point spent.

This changes however, when targetting toughness 8. In that case, the predator wins out. Against toughness 7 though, the PBC seems more efficient points-wise to me (and I believe that I see more T7 or less than T8 or more).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 17:22:12


Post by: Dr. Temujin


Not sure this was mentioned before, but on Plague Marines, are plasma guns or blight launchers better for shooting? On the one hand, plasma are the most reliable Marine killers, and good for dealing with light/medium vehicles. However, they only deal 1 damage, or 2 if you have a Lord per gun. On the other hand, blight launchers have a better damage potential with Damage D3, but that's if the shot gets through. It's weaker in terms of raw firepower than the plasma.
Or rather than which is better, what roles do each weapon serve?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 17:45:05


Post by: gwarsh41


I am in the same boat with blight v plasma. I find there are much more difficult decisions like this in 8th, even with units. Things are not so all or nothing as 7th was, making everything a tougher choice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 17:52:16


Post by: ballzonya


Death Shroud termies in Land Raider is my preferred method. I tried them 3 times and 2 times deep striking and they failed the charge and never made it in before they died with the land raider they got in and wrecked.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 17:53:43


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I am in the same boat with blight v plasma. I find there are much more difficult decisions like this in 8th, even with units. Things are not so all or nothing as 7th was, making everything a tougher choice.


That is what it is supposed to be, right?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 18:18:33


Post by: Wayniac


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I am in the same boat with blight v plasma. I find there are much more difficult decisions like this in 8th, even with units. Things are not so all or nothing as 7th was, making everything a tougher choice.


I am taking a squad of each, both with champions with plasma. I think that, unless you're going full competitive filth lists (in which case you probably aren't taking plague marines, anyways), I think that compromises is going to be the way to go. For instance, I'm thinking of taking 1 plague spewer on my CC plague marine squad since I don't have the points for 2 since I also want a combi-plasma on a Blightlord terminator; rather than get one and not the other, I'll compromise and take a little of both. Is it the most optimal? No, likely not. But it will be good enough, and IMHO that's the proper way to play.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 18:59:16


Post by: SilverAlien


Milkshaker wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:

Predators are, without a doubt, better anti tank for their points than plagueburst crawlers.


On what math is this based? for instance (please correct me if I'm wrong, my math isn't always that great):

This changes however, when targetting toughness 8. In that case, the predator wins out. Against toughness 7 though, the PBC seems more efficient points-wise to me (and I believe that I see more T7 or less than T8 or more).


Basically it was just a ballpark estimate looking a few different scenarios. I also included a chaos lord (with arch contaminator for the crawlers) which shifts it as well.

In short, toughness 7 sv 3+ no invulnerable is the best possible situation for the crawler compared to the predator. If it's facing an enemy with a 5+ invulnerable or a 4+ save, the extra AP from the entropy cannons is lost. If it's facing toughness 8, it takes a big hit on both guns. If there is a negative BS modifier, it hurts the crawler more. So it does, in part, depend on what you are facing, but the predator outperforms the crawler in damage per point in the widest variety of situations.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 19:12:36


Post by: dan2026


How are people feeling about Hellbrutes with Twin Lascanons and Missile Launchers as anti armour?

Being able to move and shoot without penalty seems good.
But I'm worried they might be too expensive in points.

They come out slightly cheaper than a Plague burst Crawler with Entropy Canons. But are no way near as durable.
However I'm wondering if they may put out more consistent damage as the Crawler only hits on 5+ if it moves.

A Predator with 4 lascannons comes out a lot more expensive and also suffers the movement penalties. Although it hits on a 4+ this time.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 19:48:47


Post by: XT-1984


I prefer the Crawler, as people have said it is much tougher than Predators and Helbrutes.

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 20:00:13


Post by: Luciferian


 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Not sure this was mentioned before, but on Plague Marines, are plasma guns or blight launchers better for shooting? On the one hand, plasma are the most reliable Marine killers, and good for dealing with light/medium vehicles. However, they only deal 1 damage, or 2 if you have a Lord per gun. On the other hand, blight launchers have a better damage potential with Damage D3, but that's if the shot gets through. It's weaker in terms of raw firepower than the plasma.
Or rather than which is better, what roles do each weapon serve?


If you're going for pure firepower I'd say three Plasma Guns in five-man squads are probably best. Once you get into 18" range you can sit there and fire away. However, if you're using a squad for anything other than ranged firepower the Blight Launchers are probably better because they can be fired after advancing. So if you have a large CC squad you're trying to foot slog toward the enemy you could throw a couple of those on and give them a bit of shooting power while they're running into position.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 20:09:58


Post by: nfe


 XT-1984 wrote:

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


True, but I in a combined c.9 turns of shooting, I think I've had a PBC cause one wound on a Repulsor and one wound on a marine. I've obviously been unlucky with the rolls but they really don't have the number of shots to make up for the ballistic skill.

Predators might be the answer for me (handy that I much prefer the model to the PBC [on the basis of photographs, anyway]).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 20:17:28


Post by: dan2026


nfe wrote:
 XT-1984 wrote:

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


True, but I in a combined c.9 turns of shooting, I think I've had a PBC cause one wound on a Repulsor and one wound on a marine. I've obviously been unlucky with the rolls but they really don't have the number of shots to make up for the ballistic skill.

Predators might be the answer for me (handy that I much prefer the model to the PBC [on the basis of photographs, anyway]).


This is what worries me. I don't think the Crawler has the dakka to make up for its mediocre BS.
So I think Predators or Hellbrutes may be the better options.

I can't decide between the two though. The both seem to have advantages and disadvantages.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 21:00:30


Post by: Bremon


A crawler definitely shouldn’t be moving if possible. 5+ to hit is absolutely brutal, BS4+ sort of sucks to begin with.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 22:53:12


Post by: Nightlord1987


Curious to see how people are getting charges off in Land Raiders. They get a 3 inch disembark and a 4 inch move, but you'd have to have moved up the previous turn to your intended target. Wouldn't smart opponents just avoid the LR and its contents?

I do enjoy my Land Raider, I've been using Plasma Havocs in my Night Lords list, but I would like to give Deathshrouds termies a try.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/28 23:11:13


Post by: SilverAlien


nfe wrote:
 XT-1984 wrote:

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


True, but I in a combined c.9 turns of shooting, I think I've had a PBC cause one wound on a Repulsor and one wound on a marine. I've obviously been unlucky with the rolls but they really don't have the number of shots to make up for the ballistic skill.

Predators might be the answer for me (handy that I much prefer the model to the PBC [on the basis of photographs, anyway]).


Are you using the entropy cannons? They add a lot more firepower than just the main gun.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 00:23:52


Post by: dan2026


SilverAlien wrote:
nfe wrote:
 XT-1984 wrote:

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


True, but I in a combined c.9 turns of shooting, I think I've had a PBC cause one wound on a Repulsor and one wound on a marine. I've obviously been unlucky with the rolls but they really don't have the number of shots to make up for the ballistic skill.

Predators might be the answer for me (handy that I much prefer the model to the PBC [on the basis of photographs, anyway]).


Are you using the entropy cannons? They add a lot more firepower than just the main gun.


The problem with the Entropy Canons is they cannot indirect fire like the main gun.
So if you stay behind scenery firing the mortar you probably wont be able to use them.
Alternatively if you are driving the tank round to get a decent shot with all weapons you have to deal with hitting on a 5+

The only way I can see to use it optimally is smack bang in the open, staying still and taking shots at whatever is in range.
Or use the Blasphemous Machines stratagem.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 00:43:14


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I feel that Crawlers are big bullet magnets anyway. Given their resilience, I would be happiest if the heavy support of my opponent was targeting them over anything else. So, let them be out in the open, attracting fire. If you want to target something that is T8, has 3+, 5++ plus DR on top of that. Be my guest! lol

This is also why I am not sure about shooty hellbrutes in a DG army. It of course depends on the list. But if I had say 3 shooty hellbrutes, and I also had a Crawler or two. A smart opponent would shoot my hellbrutes first. They are fragile and have no invul, no DR, and are only 8 wound T7. He could probably kill off 3 hellbrutes with the same amount of firepower used to kill off just one crawler (or maybe one and a half crawlers). Its a no brainer which one he would go for first. (Unless you manage to somehow convince him to shoot your crawler over your hellbrutes).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 02:13:26


Post by: dan2026


Yeah I think you may be right on the hellbrutes. They just arent tough enough.

I'm still not convinced of the efficacy of the Crawlers compared to a Predator.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 02:26:57


Post by: Ix_Tab


I wonder if the plague crawlers are tall enough in order for hellbrutes to hide behind them (I have 2 of the old FW DG dreads)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 03:11:12


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 dan2026 wrote:
Yeah I think you may be right on the hellbrutes. They just arent tough enough.

I'm still not convinced of the efficacy of the Crawlers compared to a Predator.


They are not the most efficient for shooting. It isn't what Deathguard is known for. Their 4+ BS alone makes them inefficient already. Even if you have a a lord or a prince nearby to give them rerolls on a 1, their hit rate is still going to be only slightly better than 50%. Whereas, true shooty lists like Azreal with squads of devastators can achieve easily 90% hit rate. And gulliman lists add reroll to wound on top of that. A crawler's weapons are not considered plague weapons, so they don't get the reroll to wound from arch contaminator.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 03:21:33


Post by: Bremon


 dan2026 wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
nfe wrote:
 XT-1984 wrote:

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


True, but I in a combined c.9 turns of shooting, I think I've had a PBC cause one wound on a Repulsor and one wound on a marine. I've obviously been unlucky with the rolls but they really don't have the number of shots to make up for the ballistic skill.

Predators might be the answer for me (handy that I much prefer the model to the PBC [on the basis of photographs, anyway]).


Are you using the entropy cannons? They add a lot more firepower than just the main gun.


The problem with the Entropy Canons is they cannot indirect fire like the main gun.
So if you stay behind scenery firing the mortar you probably wont be able to use them.
Alternatively if you are driving the tank round to get a decent shot with all weapons you have to deal with hitting on a 5+

The only way I can see to use it optimally is smack bang in the open, staying still and taking shots at whatever is in range.
Or use the Blasphemous Machines stratagem.
What I think isn’t obvious about the Crawler is that the advantage of the mortar isn’t that you can hide from your enemies, the advantage is they can’t hide from you. The thing is likely the most durable tank in the game, it’s at the very least in the running. I think it should be deployed toward the middle and front of your deployment zone to maximize its range and targetting ability.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 05:18:06


Post by: nfe


SilverAlien wrote:
nfe wrote:
 XT-1984 wrote:

And if a unit is dead its damage and threat is nothing (after it explodes of course).


True, but I in a combined c.9 turns of shooting, I think I've had a PBC cause one wound on a Repulsor and one wound on a marine. I've obviously been unlucky with the rolls but they really don't have the number of shots to make up for the ballistic skill.

Predators might be the answer for me (handy that I much prefer the model to the PBC [on the basis of photographs, anyway]).


Are you using the entropy cannons? They add a lot more firepower than just the main gun.


Always. They caused that single Repulsor wound.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 06:17:08


Post by: Milkshaker


SilverAlien wrote:
Milkshaker wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:

Predators are, without a doubt, better anti tank for their points than plagueburst crawlers.


On what math is this based? for instance (please correct me if I'm wrong, my math isn't always that great):

This changes however, when targetting toughness 8. In that case, the predator wins out. Against toughness 7 though, the PBC seems more efficient points-wise to me (and I believe that I see more T7 or less than T8 or more).


Basically it was just a ballpark estimate looking a few different scenarios. I also included a chaos lord (with arch contaminator for the crawlers) which shifts it as well.

In short, toughness 7 sv 3+ no invulnerable is the best possible situation for the crawler compared to the predator. If it's facing an enemy with a 5+ invulnerable or a 4+ save, the extra AP from the entropy cannons is lost. If it's facing toughness 8, it takes a big hit on both guns. If there is a negative BS modifier, it hurts the crawler more. So it does, in part, depend on what you are facing, but the predator outperforms the crawler in damage per point in the widest variety of situations.



Well, a chaos lord with arch-contaminator changes things around again:
A PBC does 4,0023 damage on a land raider ( pred does 4,84) which makes the effectiveness per point spent for the pred 0,0255 and for the PBC 0,0257. against an imperial knight the pred will do 6,05 damage and the PBC 5,128. this makes the effectiveness per point spent for the pred 0,0318 and the PBC 0,0330.

Keep in mind, the effectiveness per points spent doesn't take the cost of the lord into account, and the PBC benefits more from him for sure (reroll ones and arch-contaminator)

Negative BS mods will have a larger impact on the PBC for sure, though.

If you're having a chaos lord with arch-contaminator anyway, the PBC seems like a better idea to me. Otherwise, if facing a lot of T8, the pred's offensive output is much better.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 06:26:26


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Wait, is the mortar considered a plague weapon? Are any of the weapons of the PBC considered plague weapons?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 07:18:06


Post by: Milkshaker


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Wait, is the mortar considered a plague weapon? Are any of the weapons of the PBC considered plague weapons?


Only the mortar


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 07:35:39


Post by: Eldenfirefly


The mortar looks good initially, until you realise that on a BS4+ and with d6 shots. That will average only 1 to 2 hits from each mortar per round.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 07:46:29


Post by: nfe


Milkshaker wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Wait, is the mortar considered a plague weapon? Are any of the weapons of the PBC considered plague weapons?


Only the mortar


Plus the Plaguespitters if you take them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 07:52:55


Post by: kaptin_Blacksquigg


I thing the best solution to sub par crawler damage is just take more of them

Serious, on paper they are crazy good. Point for point one of the most resilient units in the game and if you have an arch-contaminator in range there shooting is comparable (point for point) to a quad las-predator.

Can you get unluckly with them, sure. But don't forget they are under 160 points with Entropy cannons and have the option of shooting indirectly.

Compared to Forge-fiends they are amazing. Lower cost, +1 T, DR and arguably better firepower.

Them and fetid bloat drones are making me serious consider 'death guarding' my WIP demon engine list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 08:47:20


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Their main selling point is their super good resilience. maybe someone should just try a parking lot style list spamming plague crawlers bubble wrapped with cheap infantry and see if it can outshoot a shooty Gulliman list.

Maybe its hit rate may not be as good as a Gulliman shooty list, but maybe it will make up for that by its resilience as it keeps on pumping out those shots turn after turn after turn because the things are just so darn hard to kill. lol


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 09:02:22


Post by: nfe


kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:
I thing the best solution to sub par crawler damage is just take more of them

Serious, on paper they are crazy good. Point for point one of the most resilient units in the game and if you have an arch-contaminator in range there shooting is comparable (point for point) to a quad las-predator.

Can you get unluckly with them, sure. But don't forget they are under 160 points with Entropy cannons and have the option of shooting indirectly.


If you embrace the indirect shooting their robustness under fire becomes irrelevant - at which point you're paying 150 points for D6 BS4+ shots a turn.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 09:09:19


Post by: darthryan


I think people are focusing on indirect fire the wrong way. I think the main use of it will be to shoot over interviening models not to hide behind cover. For instance the tau fish of fury tactic where you screen your soft fire warriors behind a devil fish. Now you can still shoot them. Or if your opponent has infilitraters hiding in ruins or behing a wall ready for a turn 1 charge just shoot them out of the cover.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 09:10:35


Post by: Eldenfirefly


To be fair. Hiding in ruins doesn't mean it can't be seen and hence shot at. Most ruins have a lot of windows and openings through which its almost impossible to hide something as big as a plague crawler.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 09:12:17


Post by: nfe


darthryan wrote:
I think people are focusing on indirect fire the wrong way. I think the main use of it will be to shoot over interviening models not to hide behind cover. For instance the tau fish of fury tactic where you screen your soft fire warriors behind a devil fish. Now you can still shoot them.


Well, on the average turn, you can succesfully shoot one of them. Then miss another two targets 2/3 times with your entropy cannons. Or autohit with your plaguespitters but then your PBC should probably be a drone.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 10:39:19


Post by: Captyn_Bob


darthryan wrote:
I think people are focusing on indirect fire the wrong way. I think the main use of it will be to shoot over interviening models not to hide behind cover. For instance the tau fish of fury tactic where you screen your soft fire warriors behind a devil fish. Now you can still shoot them. Or if your opponent has infilitraters hiding in ruins or behing a wall ready for a turn 1 charge just shoot them out of the cover.


Does that even work in 8th edition?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 11:30:00


Post by: darthryan


Not sure if it works now but was just the first example of an old problem i have faced. To be fair NFEhas it right just take drones instead they are so much better


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 11:44:20


Post by: nfe


darthryan wrote:
Not sure if it works now but was just the first example of an old problem i have faced. To be fair NFEhas it right just take drones instead they are so much better


Theyre the bee's knees, for sure.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 13:13:33


Post by: Wayniac


So, anyone care to bet if the plastic Plague Marine kit will come with enough options to give two Flails of Corruption/Great Plague Cleavers, or if it will be a typical GW "build for variety" kit that forces you to mix and match unless you want to buy multiple boxes? I mean, for myself I don't care if I have to have 1 flail and 1 cleaver in a squad, but it will be pretty frustrating.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 14:03:02


Post by: gwarsh41


Wayniac wrote:
So, anyone care to bet if the plastic Plague Marine kit will come with enough options to give two Flails of Corruption/Great Plague Cleavers, or if it will be a typical GW "build for variety" kit that forces you to mix and match unless you want to buy multiple boxes? I mean, for myself I don't care if I have to have 1 flail and 1 cleaver in a squad, but it will be pretty frustrating.


My bet is that they will come with 1 of each option, just like how terminators are dicked over. Part of me wants to say, "But the grey hunters kit has EVERYTHING". I know that box is for, GH, BC, WG and every infantry option SW can take. I really doubt we will get that lucky with the kit.
On the bright side, if the kits are monopose, it should be easier to magnetize.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 14:26:31


Post by: Wayniac


I mean as I said, I don't mind. I build for variety anyways, without a huge care for "most optimal" beyond some thought. But I know a lot of people hate it as they only want to take multiples of the same "best" thing.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 16:39:27


Post by: Bremon


Well taking multiple of the “best things” realistically in this case just means optimizing a squad for camping or CC etc, rather than having diseased T5 tac marine jack-of-some-trades average-to-bad-at-all squad. I expect options to be limited requiring multiple boxes but here’s hoping. I can’t believe poxwalkers and marines are taking so long in the first place; all the EZ build kits do in my eyes is push people toward more dark imperium boxes, which is basically giving away free rulebooks, etc.

Any inkling as to how many marines will come in a box? 5?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 17:26:34


Post by: Wayniac


Bremon wrote:
Well taking multiple of the “best things” realistically in this case just means optimizing a squad for camping or CC etc, rather than having diseased T5 tac marine jack-of-some-trades average-to-bad-at-all squad. I expect options to be limited requiring multiple boxes but here’s hoping. I can’t believe poxwalkers and marines are taking so long in the first place; all the EZ build kits do in my eyes is push people toward more dark imperium boxes, which is basically giving away free rulebooks, etc.

Any inkling as to how many marines will come in a box? 5?


7 in a box, with parts for icon/champion, who are also sold as alternative models at $25 (USD) a pop.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/29 22:34:35


Post by: SilverAlien


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Their main selling point is their super good resilience. maybe someone should just try a parking lot style list spamming plague crawlers bubble wrapped with cheap infantry and see if it can outshoot a shooty Gulliman list.

Maybe its hit rate may not be as good as a Gulliman shooty list, but maybe it will make up for that by its resilience as it keeps on pumping out those shots turn after turn after turn because the things are just so darn hard to kill. lol


It sorta works, though I'm not sure which RG parking lot is considered best atm. If it's still razorback spam, then yeah a set of 5-6 can probably outshoot most of the lists I saw, he'd need an absurd amount of lascannons as opposed to assault cannons. If stormravens are back, those pose more of an issue, as we discussed how - to hit screws them over.

Still, it's possible that you could build a decent anti meta list using a heavy support detachment of these, morty in his own LoW detachment, and a battalion for CP and to get your screening troops. I think it'll run into problems if you face a full horde army or the apparently popular assassins+conscripts list I've yet to really examine.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/30 06:56:28


Post by: Vortenger


What does the community think about Scabreiathrax as a LoW option? I've read some good reports about the big guy in the Daemon tactica. Granted, he's not Mortarion offensively, but he seems to synnergize with DG fairly well. Tough as nails, buffs Nurgle units, bring Daemon powers to the table without a full detachment, and hits hard enough to one-shot Knights. Thoughts?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/30 21:21:24


Post by: SilverAlien


No personal experience but he looks a little overcosted to me? His only really useful buff for us is the -1 to hit in the fight phase and he's so slow that may not work amazingly in practice. He's also a beatstick, but I think morty is honestly better damage for his points (haven't sat down and done the math, but at a glance that's what it looks like).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/09/30 23:59:18


Post by: Kharne the Befriender


I think that the resilience on the PBCs pairs well with aggressive tactics. Personally I'm going to try an army with 3 Crawlers and 4 Drones with Marines/Walkers

Move the Crawlers up full distance turn one to get in that 12-24" range for all weapons, move the Drones up with a combination of spitters and mowers to help distract from the Crawlers. Then use the Poxwalkers to screen the Crawlers from the front and sides, then fan out the Marines behind them to secure objectives/deny deep strike/and hopefully double tap plasma at the enemy.

Throw in a couple sorcerers for Miasma and Vitality to keep the pox walkers alive.

Not sure how it'll work but I'm definitely going to try it. Maybe even take out a Drone and some Marines to throw Mortarion in there.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 03:47:12


Post by: Bremon


The lone game I played against plaguebearers instead of poxwalkers changed my outlook on poxwalkers immensely. They are trash. Plaguebearers are significantly more difficult to kill, and combined with cloud of flies nearly gave me fits. Poxwalkers are good to sit on objectives out of sight where they’ll be relatively unmolested and their cheap cost doesn’t detract from your main force too much; the problem is cultists do they cheaper. PB have an invulnerable, still have DR, move quicker, have higher T and can still be buffed. Plus they can be summoned. Very versatile for a single point per model increase. They aren’t fearless, but I think morale comes out in the wash when they don’t die fast enough for it to be a huge concern, and in an MSU scenario morale is less of an issue.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 05:02:01


Post by: SilverAlien


Yeah, I was really hoping that their ability to regen models would balance it out, particularly with support, but I haven't found that to be working that well tbh. I think plaguebearers are indeed just better.

Combined with plague drones looking solid, My "Deathguard" list keeps having less and less DG in it and more nurgle demons. It's basically cultists, blight crawlers, and mortarion himself right now.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 15:09:50


Post by: orkswubwub


Plaguebearers don't get DG legion trait though so building list can be difficult, as compared to poxwalkers - unless I'm missing something?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 15:28:26


Post by: Captyn_Bob


orkswubwub wrote:
Plaguebearers don't get DG legion trait though so building list can be difficult, as compared to poxwalkers - unless I'm missing something?


That's true. Whilst a lot of units don't really benefit from Inexorable advance, having one pure DG detachment is soo good for unlocking the stratagems.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 18:13:01


Post by: SilverAlien


orkswubwub wrote:
Plaguebearers don't get DG legion trait though so building list can be difficult, as compared to poxwalkers - unless I'm missing something?


You really only need one pure DG detachment to get the stratagems, and we really don't have much that wants the DG tactic. PM and cultists as troops, plus help rites and blightlords in elites. Running a single DG battalion for such units isn't hard, since most of our other units can go wherever, and honestly you shouldn't be running more than a unit or two of anything I mentioned besides cultists.

In really small games with only two detachments it can be an issue if you also want to use Morty, but with three detachments it really isn't an issue.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 18:16:42


Post by: Pandabeer


FAQ is up, Death Guard Daemon Princes with wings are now official:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Codex_Death_Guard_ENG.pdf


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 18:37:02


Post by: SilverAlien


We also got our CT on all helbrutes, which is a big deal for anyone wanting to make the most of it and use FW.

Oh you can include relics from multiple armies when using allies, thanks to the stratagem? I'd been assuming you were locked into whichever set your warlord was from. Doesn't do a ton of my DG, but it's good to know.

Using staratagems across codices if all other requirements are met is also legal, so that's good news. Again, pretty much only useful for a couple stratagemsbut could be very helpful in the future.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 18:48:33


Post by: Tzusam


Anyone out there who can give me the pro and cons of using poxwalkers vs plaguebearers.
I can't seem to make up my mind in what to use on screening my 20 Plague Marines.
Some people are pro Poxwalkers and some are Pro Plaguebearers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 18:58:31


Post by: SilverAlien


Tzusam wrote:
Anyone out there who can give me the pro and cons of using poxwalkers vs plaguebearers.
I can't seem to make up my mind in what to use on screening my 20 Plague Marines.
Some people are pro Poxwalkers and some are Pro Plaguebearers.


Poxwalker pros:
Can regenerate models in CC
Have the DG keyword, so easier to fit in detachments and more synergy
Fearless
A bit more dangerous in close combat
Slightly cheaper

Plaguebearer pros:
Dramatically tougher and more point efficient
Faster by default
Can take an instrument to boost speed a bit more

In short, plaguebearers are just flat out statistically better, while poxwalkers have a number of smaller more situational bonuses which might outweigh their generally poor base stats, but requires more planning and support (not typhus though, never typhus).




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 19:11:40


Post by: Bremon


Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 19:14:40


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Bremon wrote:
Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


That is how it works yes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 19:18:25


Post by: Pandabeer


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


That is how it works yes.


Yep. All units in a detachment need to have the Death Guard keyword in order to use Death Guard stratagems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
We also got our CT on all helbrutes, which is a big deal for anyone wanting to make the most of it and use FW.


Definitely have to try out a Leviathan dread with double Butcher cannon arrays + Fire Frenzy sometime


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 19:22:05


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Fire Frenzy is still not keyworded.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 19:43:14


Post by: Tzusam


SilverAlien wrote:
Tzusam wrote:
Anyone out there who can give me the pro and cons of using poxwalkers vs plaguebearers.
I can't seem to make up my mind in what to use on screening my 20 Plague Marines.
Some people are pro Poxwalkers and some are Pro Plaguebearers.


Poxwalker pros:
Can regenerate models in CC
Have the DG keyword, so easier to fit in detachments and more synergy
Fearless
A bit more dangerous in close combat
Slightly cheaper

Plaguebearer pros:
Dramatically tougher and more point efficient
Faster by default
Can take an instrument to boost speed a bit more

In short, plaguebearers are just flat out statistically better, while poxwalkers have a number of smaller more situational bonuses which might outweigh their generally poor base stats, but requires more planning and support (not typhus though, never typhus).



Thanks for the answer.
At the moment i was using poxwalkers and with psychic powers they are pretty durable. I mean str 5 and toughness 5 with typhus they are a hard target. Normal bolter fire wounds them on 5's and hits them on 4's with miasma.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 19:53:38


Post by: SilverAlien


Yeah, the issue is look how many points ou are sinking into getting poxwalkers to be as durable as plaguebearers are by default. The 5+ invulnerable and toughness 4 out of the gate is just so much better, it's hard for me to personally justify poxwalkers.

Oh and to the person who asked about keywords/stratagems: a single DG detachment means you can use the stratagems on any qualifying unit, even DG in other non DG detachments. I see that trip people up quite a bit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 20:20:53


Post by: Bremon


Thanks guys, that clears things up for me! Much appreciated!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/01 21:37:36


Post by: Pandabeer


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Fire Frenzy is still not keyworded.


Eh, you're right, only vanilla Helbrutes then Guess 32 Butcher cannon shots would've been OP anyways xD


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 01:34:44


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Pandabeer wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bremon wrote:
Wait, explain this to me... if my opponent used PB in his sole detachment he can’t use DG stratagems? I feel like I’m missing something here.


That is how it works yes.


Yep. All units in a detachment need to have the Death Guard keyword in order to use Death Guard stratagems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverAlien wrote:
We also got our CT on all helbrutes, which is a big deal for anyone wanting to make the most of it and use FW.


Definitely have to try out a Leviathan dread with double Butcher cannon arrays + Fire Frenzy sometime


Well, its not difficult to get around this. Run a separate patrol detachment of chaos daemons and you can now have your Plague bearers alongside your deathguard and get the best of both worlds. Run a nurgle flying DP for the lord choice in the patrol detachment, and it will be the same. Flying DP don't rely much on shooting (and their warp bolters are assault weapons anyway). And they also get the DR. So you aren't losing anything. Its not pure deathguard of course. But with everyone running imperium soup (like you see celestine mixed in with assasins, gulliman, etc, etc, running a seperate chaos daemon detachment doesn't seem too unfluffy. Just call it the daemon allies summoned in to helped your deathguard army before the battle and you are good to go. Its probaby still a lot fluffier than imperium soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pandabeer wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Fire Frenzy is still not keyworded.


Eh, you're right, only vanilla Helbrutes then Guess 32 Butcher cannon shots would've been OP anyways xD


The problem with hellbrutes is that they are fragile. They are even weaker than Rhinos at T7, 8 wounds. And they negate the advantage the other deathguard vehicles bring. If you run crawlers and haulersand bloat drones with DR, and then you suddenly have 2 hellbrutes in the mix as well. Its almost a no brainer for the opponent to target your hellbrutes over your other much harder to kill vehicles first. And efficiency wise, you then lose a lot more points when you hellbrute goes boom.

Consider how much shooting it requires to kill one Crawler (with its over 10 wounds, T8. 5++, and DR), and then consider how much shooting it would take to kill a hellbrute. Yet, both are in the region of 150 points (unless you are running pure shooty helllbrute, but if you are, its still 130 plus points). You opponent can probably take out two hellbrutes for the amount of shooting he needs to kill one crawler. And that's doubles the points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 04:51:55


Post by: Nightlord1987


Helbrute is 112 with RAC and ML. Dragged mine out of retirement today and he was first blood real easy. I would really love to find a way to make them work.

In a sense it did what it was supposed to. Distract the opponent for a turn to get rhinos up the board.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 05:46:11


Post by: Raphael the Raven


Eldenfirefly wrote:

The problem with hellbrutes is that they are fragile. They are even weaker than Rhinos at T7, 8 wounds. And they negate the advantage the other deathguard vehicles bring. If you run crawlers and haulersand bloat drones with DR, and then you suddenly have 2 hellbrutes in the mix as well. Its almost a no brainer for the opponent to target your hellbrutes over your other much harder to kill vehicles first. And efficiency wise, you then lose a lot more points when you hellbrute goes boom.

Consider how much shooting it requires to kill one Crawler (with its over 10 wounds, T8. 5++, and DR), and then consider how much shooting it would take to kill a hellbrute. Yet, both are in the region of 150 points (unless you are running pure shooty helllbrute, but if you are, its still 130 plus points). You opponent can probably take out two hellbrutes for the amount of shooting he needs to kill one crawler. And that's doubles the points.


I think we can all agree that the Hellbrutes would be much more attractive with Disgustingly Resilient but it still has better damage output then the Blight-hauler. Always hitting on 3's and having a twin lascannon / ML AND having access to a specific dakka stratagem for 5 more points shouldn't be ignored. The biggest argument in favor of the Hellbrute is that the Blight-hauler simply doesn't do enough damage or you need to take 3 to hit on 3's. I don't care if the thing never dies, if it doesn't kill anything it's just as useless IMO because we have other units that absorb fire or act as a distraction better. The problem boils down to Blight-haulers not putting out enough damage and Hellbrutes not having enough survivability; pick your poison. If you need survivability / synergy and have enough dedicated anti tank then take a Blight-hauler, if the opposite is true a Hellbrute with twin Lasconnon and ML isn't a bad choice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 05:56:22


Post by: SilverAlien


Alternatively take a plagueburst crawler which has better firepower than the dread and better durability than the hauler, despite being roughly the same price as both.

Has anyone done a comparison on the FW dreadnoughts, now that they all get our CT?




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 07:06:32


Post by: Raphael the Raven


SilverAlien wrote:
Alternatively take a plagueburst crawler which has better firepower than the dread and better durability than the hauler, despite being roughly the same price as both.

Has anyone done a comparison on the FW dreadnoughts, now that they all get our CT?




I've used 2 in 2 games so far so I haven't had the chance to really test the Crawler enough but my instincts were telling me the same thing. Heavy slugger seems like the obvious choice but I'm not sold on the entropy cannons with a 4+ BS. I like the idea of the plaguespitters being there as a just in case but 34 points is also expensive for just that. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the loadouts of the crawler? I know the tank was discussed earlier but I didn't see much on the actual options.

Also, does it bother anyone else that the Crawler doesn't have access to a havoc launcher? I wouldn't even be sure I would take one if I could but to not even have the option just seems naked since like every other chaos tank can.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 07:43:53


Post by: SilverAlien


 Raphael the Raven wrote:
I've used 2 in 2 games so far so I haven't had the chance to really test the Crawler enough but my instincts were telling me the same thing. Heavy slugger seems like the obvious choice but I'm not sold on the entropy cannons with a 4+ BS. I like the idea of the plaguespitters being there as a just in case but 34 points is also expensive for just that. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the loadouts of the crawler? I know the tank was discussed earlier but I didn't see much on the actual options.

Also, does it bother anyone else that the Crawler doesn't have access to a havoc launcher? I wouldn't even be sure I would take one if I could but to not even have the option just seems naked since like every other chaos tank can.


Well the loadout options aren't really very competitive. The entropy cannons and heavy slugger are basically always the correct choice. You really don't want to move the BS 4+ unit, so the 36+ range on every weapon is needed, and you need to get as many shots as possible to compensate for the 4+ anyways.

The BS is an issue on both the mortar and the cannons, but this really is a cheap unit for the number of shots it tosses out, 5-6 on average. You need to take a few to make it reliable, but you can grab three for around 450 points, which isn't bad at all. It only really struggles against toughness 8 compared to a lascannon predator, and is so much more durable.

Personally I prefer the heavy slugger over the havoc launcher, so I'm not overly bothered.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 09:24:35


Post by: Horus Luperkermit


I hope that you guys are aware that while the Relic Leviathan Dreadnought can take 2 ranged weapon options, the Hellforged One can only take 1 ranged Option and is stuck with at least one Siegeclaw/Drill. So sadly no Dual Butcher Cannon Arrays :(


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 09:30:43


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
I hope that you guys are aware that while the Relic Leviathan Dreadnought can take 2 ranged weapon options, the Hellforged One can only take 1 ranged Option and is stuck with at least one Siegeclaw/Drill. So sadly no Dual Butcher Cannon Arrays :(


That's been fixed in a faq


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 09:48:16


Post by: Solar Shock


Hey guys, so this is my first list; its a walker list, with defilers and helbrutes and then HQs, can't wait to run it.

looking for some advice on what to do with the HQs,are there any better HQs? or what to load them out with, I have like 20 spare points and I can drop some points on the defilers if needed.

Spoiler:

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [27 PL, 521pts] ++

+ HQ +

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: Curse of the Leper, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [49 PL, 962pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 113pts]: Balesword, Combi-bolter

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

Helbrute [7 PL, 137pts]: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [11 PL, 224pts]: Combi-flamer, Havoc launcher, Twin lascannon

Defiler [11 PL, 214pts]: Combi-flamer, Twin heavy bolter, Twin heavy flamer

++ Total: [76 PL, 1483pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 10:28:26


Post by: Horus Luperkermit


So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 11:15:36


Post by: luke1705


 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


They’re both very good but the traitor version has a str 8 gun with 36” range and 10 shots, whereas the loyalist version has a str 7 gun with 24” range and 8 shots, plus the traitor version of the heavy flamer is 2 damage, compared to only 1 with the loyalists. They do get a 4++ all the time though, and we only get that in cc (5++ vs shooting)

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 13:45:18


Post by: gwarsh41


Vortenger wrote:
What does the community think about Scabreiathrax as a LoW option? I've read some good reports about the big guy in the Daemon tactica. Granted, he's not Mortarion offensively, but he seems to synnergize with DG fairly well. Tough as nails, buffs Nurgle units, bring Daemon powers to the table without a full detachment, and hits hard enough to one-shot Knights. Thoughts?


Mortarion is a force multiplier like nobodies business.
Scabriethrax is a hammer/anvil all in one.

Scabbie doesn't have the fancy offensive auras, but he is a tier above morty in 1v1 damage output, as well as toughness. The big downside is how slow he is, and summoning him will leave a huge gap in your army. I've had 2 games where I walked him up the middle of the field. Turn 3 charge in both games. Both times charging a unit that was held down by another one of my units. His vomit attack makes people uneasy about charging him, and provides some much needed additional support in CC if someone tries to bog him down. The general consensus at my LGS (as scabbie pops up pretty frequently, never knew so many people had one!) is "It's not worth trying to kill him". He will either soak up so much of your opponents firepower that the rest of your army makes it in, or they will ignore him and try to run and play objectives.

While scabbie has the damage to down a knight with ease (dude doesn't need Dttfe) I feel like for DG, morty is the better LoW. His mortal wound aura is insanely powerful, and there is a lot more support available with stratagems and deathshrouds. Running scabbie +30PB is a solid tactic. Always keep the PB chained back to scabbie so they are -2 to be hit in CC and spread the unit out to grab as much as you can in CC. If they hit CC, they wont budge. So the opponent now has 2 units they will need to deal with.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 14:50:22


Post by: Solar Shock


 luke1705 wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


Why doesn't that stratagem work with the FW stuff? They have the helbrute keyword and use the helbrute datasheet, the only variance is the additional weapon load out? Or am I missing something?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 15:02:16


Post by: Pandabeer


Solar Shock wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


Why doesn't that stratagem work with the FW stuff? They have the helbrute keyword and use the helbrute datasheet, the only variance is the additional weapon load out? Or am I missing something?


The distinction is that "Helbrute" isn't bolded in the Fire Frenzy stratagems' rules description (all keywords in any stratagem are), so it pertains to the Helbrute datasheet, NOT the Helbrute keyword. This means that ONLY a model that fully complies with the Helbrute datasheet can make use of it and FW dreads cannot (well, at least the Contemptor/ Deredeo/ Leviathan classes as they use their own datasheets, don't know how for example an Emperors' Children Sonic Dreadnought would be affected because that could maybe also be considered to be using the Helbrute datasheet with additional weapon options) despite having the Helbrute keyword. Unsure if this is intended but that's how it is currently.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 15:06:44


Post by: brugner8


I tried for the second time a zombie tide list, with typhus, footslogging PM and R&H detachment.
While the PB are better both on paper and on the table in comparison with poxwalkers, the combo with the stategems is really worthy the points: simply the tide of the poxwalkers swallow every enemy unit.
I played against a necron list and a crappy Dark Angels list with a super heavy, in both cases my opponents didn't realise that It's possible to create zombie IN FRONT of the unit, so I was able to quick close the gap against them.
When they tried to grab the objectives in the middle of the table they were quickly blocked by the expanding powwalkers blob.
Of course you have to spend two CP every turn for the Dead live again and to meke untargettable the unit but it create a perfect unkillable shield for the plaguecasters and the malefic lords that can quickly submerge with smite every opponent.
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 15:20:07


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Solar Shock wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


Why doesn't that stratagem work with the FW stuff? They have the helbrute keyword and use the helbrute datasheet, the only variance is the additional weapon load out? Or am I missing something?


The stratagem isn't linked to a keyword.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 16:34:26


Post by: Horus Luperkermit


 luke1705 wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


They’re both very good but the traitor version has a str 8 gun with 36” range and 10 shots, whereas the loyalist version has a str 7 gun with 24” range and 8 shots, plus the traitor version of the heavy flamer is 2 damage, compared to only 1 with the loyalists. They do get a 4++ all the time though, and we only get that in cc (5++ vs shooting)

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


I just checked and the Loyalist version is 24" S7 Ap-2 D2 with 10 shots and the Hellforged is 36" S8 Ap-1 D1 with 8 shots, so apart from the extra 12" range the Chaos Version is WAY worse. Soulburner is arguably worse than the melta lance. And Machina Malefica just does not counterbalance the 5++ invul save against shooting, especially if you want to go dual ranged options


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 16:44:16


Post by: SilverAlien


So, I was looking through FW, and I was curious what people think about using the various dreadnoughts to patch our lack of particularly good anti geq. All three seem to have good options, the contemptor has duel assault cannons or heavy bolters, the deredeo can grab butcher cannon array, heavy bolter, and greater havoc launcher or hellfire veil, while the leviathan can take a mixture of butcher cannon arrays and/or grav flux bombards for anti everything, plus the hellflamers. The only serious competition these have on our list are bloat drones with flamers, and I think everything I mentioned outperforms them by a decent margin. Oh and mortarion but he's a bit of a limited resource.

The leviathan is probably the best point for point offensively, one butcher array and one grav flux bombard is a nice mixture of long and short range than can threaten just about everything, and the hellflamers are great as if you use it more aggressively. It does need to get close to use its guns fully, but that's why our legion tactic is so wonderful for them.

Also the deredeo ends up being what our haulers wanted to be, a walking gun platform that buffs everything around it. Toss some poxwalkers in range to screen him and walk up the field, a 5+ invulnerable does wonders for them and they aren't struggling to keep up like they would with a hauler. Sadly means we don't get the wonderful greater havoc launcher, but the butcher cannon and heavy bolter are still a formidable combo.

Contemptors are cheap, costing just barely more than a bloat drone, but dealing more damage and doing it from turn 1. A bit more fragile though, and more vulnerable to being tied up in melee. Still, we already have a fair number of durable models and could probably use a few that trade durability for firepower. This is a solid choice.

I think deredeo with veil and leviathan moving up with field with poxwalkers would be the best combo personally. First time I've ever wanted poxwalkers moving up the field, but the 5+ invulnerable save is just so good on them, brings them up to plaguebearer levels.

Also, and this isn't super relevant but I found it funny, you know the twin volcano cannon on the falchion? The thing that's absurd overkill on almost every non super heavy tank in the game? That can consistently kill a land raider every turn? Our plagueburst crawler survives being shot by it almost exactly half the time. Won't exactly be much use afterwards, but I found it funny just how tough that tank is.

brugner8 wrote:
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well


Hmm, an interesting idea. I normally object to poxwalkers because I don't see the point but.... as a delivery system for malefic lords and to swamp the board in obj secured? Not a bad idea. I'm glad we are finding more uses for them, I've been very disappointed so far.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 17:32:22


Post by: Pandabeer


 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?


They’re both very good but the traitor version has a str 8 gun with 36” range and 10 shots, whereas the loyalist version has a str 7 gun with 24” range and 8 shots, plus the traitor version of the heavy flamer is 2 damage, compared to only 1 with the loyalists. They do get a 4++ all the time though, and we only get that in cc (5++ vs shooting)

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.


I just checked and the Loyalist version is 24" S7 Ap-2 D2 with 10 shots and the Hellforged is 36" S8 Ap-1 D1 with 8 shots, so apart from the extra 12" range the Chaos Version is WAY worse. Soulburner is arguably worse than the melta lance. And Machina Malefica just does not counterbalance the 5++ invul save against shooting, especially if you want to go dual ranged options


Aren't the Butcher Cannons 2 damage instead of 1?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 17:47:08


Post by: SilverAlien


They are. Also might wanna look at how they are priced.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 18:13:00


Post by: Horus Luperkermit


Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 18:25:59


Post by: Wayniac


So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 18:57:12


Post by: SilverAlien


 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack


Anti tank we have in bulk, from blight lords with over charged plasma, lascannons on predators or helbrutes, the crawlers which are great against toughness 7 or less, and the hauler which is a bit more questionable efficiency wise but does exist. Anti tank we have oodles of, in curious what your issue is with the various options.

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.


We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 19:01:38


Post by: Wayniac


SilverAlien wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack


Anti tank we have in bulk, from blight lords with over charged plasma, lascannons on predators or helbrutes, the crawlers which are great against toughness 7 or less, and the hauler which is a bit more questionable efficiency wise but does exist. Anti tank we have oodles of, in curious what your issue is with the various options.

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.


We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.


I'm really debating, I was going to get two crawlers, both on looks and on what they bring to the table (also I'm running deathshroud AND Blightlords in the same list). I mean, they look great. If the math shows they are good (I suck at math so I don't try to Mathhammer) then that sells them on me getting the two. It's better than showing up with a Leviathan Dread from FW and risk alienating people.

However I am not planning on taking a Chaos Lord for re-rolls, so not sure how that affects the choice of crawler.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 19:59:50


Post by: Raphael the Raven


SilverAlien wrote:

Well the loadout options aren't really very competitive. The entropy cannons and heavy slugger are basically always the correct choice. You really don't want to move the BS 4+ unit, so the 36+ range on every weapon is needed, and you need to get as many shots as possible to compensate for the 4+ anyways.

The BS is an issue on both the mortar and the cannons, but this really is a cheap unit for the number of shots it tosses out, 5-6 on average. You need to take a few to make it reliable, but you can grab three for around 450 points, which isn't bad at all. It only really struggles against toughness 8 compared to a lascannon predator, and is so much more durable.

Personally I prefer the heavy slugger over the havoc launcher, so I'm not overly bothered.


True about the BS being an issue for both but since it comes packaged in with the tank its an easier pill to swallow. Your analysis of the entropy cannons make sense to me and I've already been running 2 Crawlers with the heavy sluggers. I'll probably magnetize the guns and main the entropy cannons so I can sleep easier at night.

SilverAlien wrote:

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.

Going to have to disagree with you here. I think they did well enough with the codex that it feels unique from the CSM we are used to and it also brings more strong units to the table then just blightlords and Crawlers. There are plenty of tweaks I would like to see to make it better and the CSM book is definately in a good place but the CT, daemon engines, and elites make it feel distinct. I think until we get some much needed tweaks a detachment of each is the way to go.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 21:05:07


Post by: Horus Luperkermit


SilverAlien wrote:
 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack


Anti tank we have in bulk, from blight lords with over charged plasma, lascannons on predators or helbrutes, the crawlers which are great against toughness 7 or less, and the hauler which is a bit more questionable efficiency wise but does exist. Anti tank we have oodles of, in curious what your issue is with the various options.

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.


We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.


I hope this doesnt get too long... Let's start with the leviathan body: The Hellforged one loses it's 4+ Invul save against shooting for the Machina Malefica Rule. 2 Problems: 1. If you want to go dual ranged options you will probably never restore even a single wound since MM only heals for Models slain in the fighting phase. With dual ranged option you won't engage in melee and your opponent will only engage your Leviathan with units he knows will destroy the dread. 2. Even if you go with a melee weapon, MM heals based on the amount of models slain, meaning you have to engage infantry to get the most out of your heal. But why would you waste your 4 S16 Ap-4 D4 attacks on infantry and not on tanks? The tank is only 1 model tho and will only heal one wound with a 1/3 chance. In either case, definitly not worth the lesser Invul save.
On the Weapons: 1. Additional Damage on the Hellflamer is appreciated, but i doubt it makes that much of a difference since your primary Flamer targets will be Infantry anyway, most of which got only 1 wound. Terminators would be the only niche I could think of.
2. Traitor Butcher Cannon Array vs. Loyalist BCA; Mathematically the loyalist one does more damage against pretty much everything but the traitor one has 12 " more range and the morale effect, I don't think much of the morale effect and the additional range becomes even more meaningless with our Legion Trait since you can just move up without consequences. 3. Soulburner Ribaudkin vs. Cyclonic Melta Lance; The Soulburner just feels way too niche. The only case I think it would be usefull is against characters with very high invul saves. The Melta Lance on the other hand has a clear defined and usefull role: A very strong multi-shot Melta againt high armor targets.
Dont get me wrong I love Leviathans and I don't think the Hellforged Variant is bad by any means. I just feel like the Loyalist one has a lot of little things it does better than the chaos one which add up and they kinda bug me.

Edit: Not getting a 4++ against shooting REALLY bugs me tho. Cant deny that


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/02 21:34:10


Post by: Pandabeer


Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.


Don't forget the Crawler is about twice as tough as the Predator, especially against melta and missile launchers (both S8). It's also a bit better against lascannons with a 5+ invul and DG.

Anyway, I think the way to go with these things is to field them in small groups (3 fills the requirement of a Spearhead detachment and is just 468 points). This way you'll have redundancy to make up for the 4+ BS. A group also makes it worthwhile to put a Chaos Lord next to them for those reroll 1s. Give him Arch-Contaminator and you also get reroll all wounds for the mortars. An enormous force multiplier for just 74 points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 03:23:52


Post by: ZergSmasher


I was brainstorming with the help of Battlecribe and I came up with this as a possible list to build towards:
Detachment 1: Battalion Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword, The Suppurating Plate
Malignant Plaguecaster
Troops:
5 Plague Marines: 3x Plasmagun
5 Plague Marines: 2x Blight Launcher, Plasmagun on Champ
6 Plague Marines: 2x Flail of Corruption, 1x Mace of Contagion/Bubotic Axe, Power Fist on Champ
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Dedicated Transport:
Chaos Rhino
Detachment 2: Spearhead Detachment
HQ:
Chaos Lord: Power Sword, Combi-bolter
Heavy Support:
Chaos Predator: Twin Lascannon, 2x Lascannon
Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Detachment 3: Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Mortarion
My feeling is that this list has decent threat saturation. Morty is the most obvious target, but I can probably threaten stuff reasonably well with the tanks, as the Chaos Lord will mitigate the penalty for moving, and once they are in a good spot they can sit still and bring the rain. He makes a decent charge deterrent as well. With a winged Prince and a Bloat drone flying around and a Rhino full of melee-equipped Plague Marines, I've got some fast moving threats besides Mortarion. The shooty Plague Marines will take advantage of the DG legion trait and advance up the board on the first turn, then start bringing the pain. With the bigger threats on the table, they might be ignored at least at first and can hold objectives. One thing I've considered is running the Chaos Lord naked and taking another good melee weapon on the melee Plague Marines instead. Would that be a good idea?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 03:30:15


Post by: XShadow


Hi guys! Here's a 2k list I've played a few games with and I've been really happy with it. Went with 3 PBC and an arch contaminator lord to babysit them. So far it's been working well for me. I'm really liking the PBC with all the rerolls.
Spoiler:
Codex isn't on me so I apologize for the lack of points

Spearhead detachment:
Chaos Lord with Bile Sword and Plasma Pistol
3 PBC with entropy cannons and sluggers

Outrider detachment:
DP with wings and talons
3 bloat drones with plaguespitters

Vanguard detachment:
Typhus
5 blightlord termies, 1 with flail, 4 with bubonic axes and combi bolters
Biologus putrifier
Noxious blightbringer
Chaos rhino with 9 double knife plague marines




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 03:32:52


Post by: SilverAlien


Wayniac wrote:
I'm really debating, I was going to get two crawlers, both on looks and on what they bring to the table (also I'm running deathshroud AND Blightlords in the same list). I mean, they look great. If the math shows they are good (I suck at math so I don't try to Mathhammer) then that sells them on me getting the two. It's better than showing up with a Leviathan Dread from FW and risk alienating people.

However I am not planning on taking a Chaos Lord for re-rolls, so not sure how that affects the choice of crawler.


Rerolling ones doesn't boost the crawler that much, what it really likes is the arch contaminator WT to reroll all failed wounds, which helps it quite a bit against toughness 8. However, it isn't required by any stretch, but if your meta has a lot of toughness 8 vehicles it might be something to think about.

 Raphael the Raven wrote:
Going to have to disagree with you here. I think they did well enough with the codex that it feels unique from the CSM we are used to and it also brings more strong units to the table then just blightlords and Crawlers. There are plenty of tweaks I would like to see to make it better and the CSM book is definately in a good place but the CT, daemon engines, and elites make it feel distinct. I think until we get some much needed tweaks a detachment of each is the way to go.


I'm just talking from a point efficiency stand point, most of our unique models aren't very good. A number also have trap options, features which seem useful but, if utilized, often make the unit weaker overall, due to the way it must be used. Poxwalkers+typhus, the hauler escorting slow infantry or being taken in sets of three, plague marines being deceptively fragile, the crawler being placed without LoS, deathshroud teleporting in, the list goes on but so many things in our army just don't seem to be functioning correctly, or outright were designed to not function correctly.

I'm sure it'll be fixed eventually, but at the moment most of our army doesn't function very cohesively. Which is a shame because it does have potential, a lot of the new units just need either rule or point alterations pretty badly.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 04:00:32


Post by: Tetsu0


brugner8 wrote:
I tried for the second time a zombie tide list, with typhus, footslogging PM and R&H detachment.
While the PB are better both on paper and on the table in comparison with poxwalkers, the combo with the stategems is really worthy the points: simply the tide of the poxwalkers swallow every enemy unit.
I played against a necron list and a crappy Dark Angels list with a super heavy, in both cases my opponents didn't realise that It's possible to create zombie IN FRONT of the unit, so I was able to quick close the gap against them.
When they tried to grab the objectives in the middle of the table they were quickly blocked by the expanding powwalkers blob.
Of course you have to spend two CP every turn for the Dead live again and to meke untargettable the unit but it create a perfect unkillable shield for the plaguecasters and the malefic lords that can quickly submerge with smite every opponent.
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well


This. I was about to post pretty much the same tactic. People are sleeping on the poxwalkers and the dead walk again strategem. You could put units of plague marines and cultist around your blob of poxwalkers too, and run that stragem every turn for 1cp. Every thing they kill from your other units will be more poxwalkers. Embed psykers inside the blob to spam smite and buff when needed.

Also I don't think people are utilizing the fact you can spread the models 2inches from each other, and get crazy board control and spread more of nurgles gift.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 05:26:54


Post by: Ecdain


I have a question about the poxwalker strategem and getting huge squads. Cause unless I'm reading the FAQ wrong it says you can go over you "starting squad size." It however does not say they go over "maximum squad size." So correct me if I'm wrong but you still can't get over 20 walkers in one squad?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 05:59:24


Post by: SilverAlien


Ecdain wrote:
I have a question about the poxwalker strategem and getting huge squads. Cause unless I'm reading the FAQ wrong it says you can go over you "starting squad size." It however does not say they go over "maximum squad size." So correct me if I'm wrong but you still can't get over 20 walkers in one squad?


That's the bit I'm still not super clear on.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 06:47:07


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 08:06:54


Post by: Ecdain


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building


Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 08:25:20


Post by: broxus


Ecdain wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building


Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.


Just follow the RAW and you will be fine. You are trying to add rules that don’t exist on the data sheet. You have no limits to how high your pox walker squads can go. If you can get them in combat.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 10:52:50


Post by: Tzusam


brugner8 wrote:
I tried for the second time a zombie tide list, with typhus, footslogging PM and R&H detachment.
While the PB are better both on paper and on the table in comparison with poxwalkers, the combo with the stategems is really worthy the points: simply the tide of the poxwalkers swallow every enemy unit.
I played against a necron list and a crappy Dark Angels list with a super heavy, in both cases my opponents didn't realise that It's possible to create zombie IN FRONT of the unit, so I was able to quick close the gap against them.
When they tried to grab the objectives in the middle of the table they were quickly blocked by the expanding powwalkers blob.
Of course you have to spend two CP every turn for the Dead live again and to meke untargettable the unit but it create a perfect unkillable shield for the plaguecasters and the malefic lords that can quickly submerge with smite every opponent.
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well


Well to be honest I still think poxwalkers might be better aswell. Sure like you said the PB look better on paper but in reality I think its the versatility the poxwalkers bring that makes a difference.
The PlagueBearers are tougher and yes they are at -1 to hit from the start. But thats if they are with 20+ models. After that they lose alot of survivability.
On poxwalkers U can Always cast Miasma of pestilence. You can buff them to STR5 and T5 so bolters will kill wound them on 5+! PS: I Always bring Typhus with them. They only thing poxwalkers lack is an invul save. Poxwalkers are fearless, PB might get their numbers back when U roll a 1 on a morale test.
I still have a hard time in deciding what to bring.
On Thursday ill have a shot with 30 plaguebeares and a Malificent Plaguecaster instead of my 28 Poxwalkers and Typhus. Lets see how it goes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 11:30:30


Post by: Solar Shock


broxus wrote:
Ecdain wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building


Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.


Just follow the RAW and you will be fine. You are trying to add rules that don’t exist on the data sheet. You have no limits to how high your pox walker squads can go. If you can get them in combat.


I agree. FAQ states can go above squad starting size. You can start the squad at Max unit size, thus; by being able to go over starting size and starting size can equal max size, you can go over max size. Im pretty sure that is the exact rule GW were trying to imply. Even if they did a classic GW goffy FAQ clarity

So take it as RAW and add as many poxwalkers as possible. If pox spam becomes too prevalent, then maybe they will FAQ it the other way, but until then lets not hamper ourselves!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 14:01:32


Post by: luke1705


Missing out on the melta lance for the hellforged leviathan is definitely a feels bad moment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 14:56:58


Post by: gwarsh41


Really quick question. What is the point of taking a plague marine with 2 plague knives? I see you can replace your bolter with another knife, but the knife doesn't give additional attacks like a chainsword, so why take 2?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 15:02:47


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Really quick question. What is the point of taking a plague marine with 2 plague knives? I see you can replace your bolter with another knife, but the knife doesn't give additional attacks like a chainsword, so why take 2?


2 knives give 2 attacks. The 2 attacks combinations are Axe + Knife, Axe + Mace and 2 Knives.

Why we cannot have Mace + knife and spare points is beyond me but hey.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 15:18:05


Post by: gwarsh41


 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Really quick question. What is the point of taking a plague marine with 2 plague knives? I see you can replace your bolter with another knife, but the knife doesn't give additional attacks like a chainsword, so why take 2?


2 knives give 2 attacks. The 2 attacks combinations are Axe + Knife, Axe + Mace and 2 Knives.

Why we cannot have Mace + knife and spare points is beyond me but hey.


Is that a BRB rule I don't know about. I thought that the weapon needed a special rule, like pair of lightning claws, to give a second attack.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 15:29:32


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Ahhh
There's a special rule on the datasheet


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/03 15:34:35


Post by: gwarsh41


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Ahhh
There's a special rule on the datasheet


Would be nice if I learned how to read huh? Thank you very much for pointing out the obvious.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 00:26:46


Post by: luke1705


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Ahhh
There's a special rule on the datasheet


Would be nice if I learned how to read huh? Thank you very much for pointing out the obvious.


Happens to the best of us


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 00:39:08


Post by: Raphael the Raven


SilverAlien wrote:

I'm just talking from a point efficiency stand point, most of our unique models aren't very good. A number also have trap options, features which seem useful but, if utilized, often make the unit weaker overall, due to the way it must be used. Poxwalkers+typhus, the hauler escorting slow infantry or being taken in sets of three, plague marines being deceptively fragile, the crawler being placed without LoS, deathshroud teleporting in, the list goes on but so many things in our army just don't seem to be functioning correctly, or outright were designed to not function correctly.

I'm sure it'll be fixed eventually, but at the moment most of our army doesn't function very cohesively. Which is a shame because it does have potential, a lot of the new units just need either rule or point alterations pretty badly.


I absolutely agree with everything you said except the part about Typhus with Poxwalkers and the durability of Plague Marines. I think both Plague Marines and Poxwalkers need a slight cost reduction to bring them in line with their competitors but I don't think you are handicapping yourself drastically just by using them. One squad of Plague Marines is fine and poxwalkers mixed with ranged cultists are too. Hellbrutes not having DR bugs me more then either of those TBH.

I'd add Hellbrutes / possessed not having DR, Plague Surgeons being trash tier, Sorcerer being completely useless next to Plaguecaster, and Tallyman / Blightspawn not having at least plague knifes to things that I would like to see addressed along with what you already mentioned. The more I've played the more obvious the conclusion is that the only thing in the codex that is "god awful wtf was GW thinking when they made this absolute garbage" is the plague surgeon. Any other issues with the book can be fixed with tweaks (like you said points efficiency) which hopefully chapter approved will bring.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 07:31:58


Post by: Milkshaker


SilverAlien wrote:


We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.


Totally agree with SilverAlien! The immense resillience makes this a no-brainer for me.

Here are some math posts I posted made earlier, so you guys don't have to go through the thread:

Milkshaker wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:

Predators are, without a doubt, better anti tank for their points than plagueburst crawlers.




On what math is this based? for instance (please correct me if I'm wrong, my math isn't always that great):

VS rhino (1 round of shooting, stationary):
____________2,66667 hits
____________1,77778 succesful wound rolls
____________0,29693 succesful saves (0,1667 saves per wound * 1,7778 wounds = 0,29693 succesful saves)
this leaves___ 1,48182 unsaved wounds (1,7778 wounds - 0,29693 succesful saves)
damage_____ 5,18519 damage dealt (1,48182 unsaved wounds * 3,5 average damage of a D6)

With the points of a laspred, this is 0,0273 wounds per point spent.

plagueburst crawler with 2 ectoplasm cannons, plagueburst mortar, heavy slugger: an average of 4,4815 damage dealt in a single round
using the same technique for calculating wounds/damage as the calculation above:

2x ectoplasm:____________________________________2,3333 damage dealt after saves
1x plagueburst mortar with 3.5 shots (reroll 1 to wound):__1,8148 damage dealt after saves
1x heavy slugger:_________________________________0,3333 damage dealt after saves
total damage:____________________________________4,4815

With the total points of this plagueburst crawler, that means an effectiveness of 0,0287 wounds per point spent.

This changes however, when targetting toughness 8. In that case, the predator wins out. Against toughness 7 though, the PBC seems more efficient points-wise to me (and I believe that I see more T7 or less than T8 or more).


and another on arch contaminator:

Milkshaker wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
Milkshaker wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:

Predators are, without a doubt, better anti tank for their points than plagueburst crawlers.


On what math is this based? for instance (please correct me if I'm wrong, my math isn't always that great):

This changes however, when targetting toughness 8. In that case, the predator wins out. Against toughness 7 though, the PBC seems more efficient points-wise to me (and I believe that I see more T7 or less than T8 or more).


Basically it was just a ballpark estimate looking a few different scenarios. I also included a chaos lord (with arch contaminator for the crawlers) which shifts it as well.

In short, toughness 7 sv 3+ no invulnerable is the best possible situation for the crawler compared to the predator. If it's facing an enemy with a 5+ invulnerable or a 4+ save, the extra AP from the entropy cannons is lost. If it's facing toughness 8, it takes a big hit on both guns. If there is a negative BS modifier, it hurts the crawler more. So it does, in part, depend on what you are facing, but the predator outperforms the crawler in damage per point in the widest variety of situations.



Well, a chaos lord with arch-contaminator changes things around again:
A PBC does 4,0023 damage on a land raider ( pred does 4,84) which makes the effectiveness per point spent for the pred 0,0255 and for the PBC 0,0257. against an imperial knight the pred will do 6,05 damage and the PBC 5,128. this makes the effectiveness per point spent for the pred 0,0318 and the PBC 0,0330.

Keep in mind, the effectiveness per points spent doesn't take the cost of the lord into account, and the PBC benefits more from him for sure (reroll ones and arch-contaminator)

Negative BS mods will have a larger impact on the PBC for sure, though.

If you're having a chaos lord with arch-contaminator anyway, the PBC seems like a better idea to me. Otherwise, if facing a lot of T8, the pred's offensive output is much better.



Hope this helps with the PBC vs pred debate. (PS I pre-ordered 3 PBC's )


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 08:27:19


Post by: SilverAlien


 Raphael the Raven wrote:
I absolutely agree with everything you said except the part about Typhus with Poxwalkers and the durability of Plague Marines. I think both Plague Marines and Poxwalkers need a slight cost reduction to bring them in line with their competitors but I don't think you are handicapping yourself drastically just by using them. One squad of Plague Marines is fine and poxwalkers mixed with ranged cultists are too. Hellbrutes not having DR bugs me more then either of those TBH


I admit I've soften on PM a little, but I still don't really see them doing much for us as a ranged unit. Only being able to grab two guns sours me on them for most weapons. Plasma is the one we mainly use at 3, and while they are cost effective I think I generally prefer our blightlords for plasma duty. PM get more plasma for cost (about 6 plasma guns for every 5 the blightlords can use) but being able to drop in wherever with the 18" RF is wonderful and I dislike footslogging plasma PM. We can toss a combi flamer or melta on the champion for triple melta/triple flamer/belcher. So those are options still. Not sure either is super appealing, melta I've found meh and flamers aren't actually benefitting from our CT.

What I do like PM a lot more for is melee. With tallyman, two flails, and the rest knives, our PM can clear infantry pretty fast. We've got better melee support overall with tallyman rerolling all misses, the flail being the best weapon PM have access to the and the knives being better bolters up close. I still like one larger unit for grenades, but I could see a couple smaller units as well at as this point. They are superior to cultists for damage and, with morale factored in, ballpark same toughness depending on what your enemy brings. Plus, you only really care about the flail dudes and maybe sarge.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 09:00:59


Post by: broxus


Solar Shock wrote:
broxus wrote:
Ecdain wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building


Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.


Just follow the RAW and you will be fine. You are trying to add rules that don’t exist on the data sheet. You have no limits to how high your pox walker squads can go. If you can get them in combat.


I agree. FAQ states can go above squad starting size. You can start the squad at Max unit size, thus; by being able to go over starting size and starting size can equal max size, you can go over max size. Im pretty sure that is the exact rule GW were trying to imply. Even if they did a classic GW goffy FAQ clarity

So take it as RAW and add as many poxwalkers as possible. If pox spam becomes too prevalent, then maybe they will FAQ it the other way, but until then lets not hamper ourselves!


The only thing that makes poxwalkers even close to worth their 6pt cost is they can go above their unit size. If they lost that they would be a terrible option.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 11:59:51


Post by: Dedwoods42


Adding to the discussion about the PBC Vs Predators - I really think that the Entropy cannons and the mortar are a trap - it's not a dedicated tank killer like a Predator is. Stick to the stock Flamer loadout and move it up the field. It's dirt cheap for how obnoxiously resilient it is - and has two S7 AP-1 flamers... Anything it hits with the mortar is just a bonus.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 13:33:38


Post by: Milkshaker


 Dedwoods42 wrote:
Adding to the discussion about the PBC Vs Predators - I really think that the Entropy cannons and the mortar are a trap - it's not a dedicated tank killer like a Predator is. Stick to the stock Flamer loadout and move it up the field. It's dirt cheap for how obnoxiously resilient it is - and has two S7 AP-1 flamers... Anything it hits with the mortar is just a bonus.


I'm not sure if it's a trap, wounds per point they seem quite efficient (see my calculations above). I do always field them in 3's though, just because you can split the entropy cannons and the mortars if needed that way, without losing their punch (because you have enough of both of them to do significant damage to your targets)

Although I must admit that the idea of the 2 flamer PBC is something that's been on my mind for a while now.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 13:42:31


Post by: SilverAlien


Yeah, the PBC kills tanks with the entropy cannons+mortar far more efficiently than it kills infantry with the plague spitters. Plaguespitters are 17 points each vs the 20 point entropy cannons so you don't even get much of a discount on the model as a whole, and moving forward every turn just makes the main mortar more useless, hitting on a 5+


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 13:47:19


Post by: Wayniac


IMHO the entropy cannon is a no-brainer upgrade. It gives you some anti-tank capability so you can turn the PBC into a sort of support tank.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/04 17:29:47


Post by: broxus


 Dedwoods42 wrote:
Adding to the discussion about the PBC Vs Predators - I really think that the Entropy cannons and the mortar are a trap - it's not a dedicated tank killer like a Predator is. Stick to the stock Flamer loadout and move it up the field. It's dirt cheap for how obnoxiously resilient it is - and has two S7 AP-1 flamers... Anything it hits with the mortar is just a bonus.


Well if you are moving then your mortar is hitting on 5+ meaning it becomes a waste. Not to mention once the PBC is in combat it is pretty useless. If you are going to go for the dual plaguespitters then I would recommend a bloat drone. Since the drone can fly it is far better at harassing people with their flamer and still very tough. Not to mention since it can fly it can get over screening units and kill characters.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/05 13:14:36


Post by: Pandabeer


broxus wrote:
 Dedwoods42 wrote:
Adding to the discussion about the PBC Vs Predators - I really think that the Entropy cannons and the mortar are a trap - it's not a dedicated tank killer like a Predator is. Stick to the stock Flamer loadout and move it up the field. It's dirt cheap for how obnoxiously resilient it is - and has two S7 AP-1 flamers... Anything it hits with the mortar is just a bonus.


Well if you are moving then your mortar is hitting on 5+ meaning it becomes a waste. Not to mention once the PBC is in combat it is pretty useless. If you are going to go for the dual plaguespitters then I would recommend a bloat drone. Since the drone can fly it is far better at harassing people with their flamer and still very tough. Not to mention since it can fly it can get over screening units and kill characters.


It can also lock up units like devastators and devastator centurions that are hiding on the upper floors of buildings in CC because it can fly. Then it can fall back 1" the following turn, shoot and charge again. A Crawler can't reach them.

Anyway, point for point they have about the same firepower against most things (except T8 and 9), but since the Crawler is about twice as durable point for point I really think the Crawler wins out above the Predator Annihilator most of the time. Just put it down in such a way that is as safe from assault as possible while being within 36" from anything it wants to shoot, hold still as much as you can and let loose. The Crawler is a dedicated long range fire support unit, not a fast harassing unit like the Plaguespitter Bloatdrone.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/05 13:24:26


Post by: Milkshaker


Pandabeer wrote:


It can also lock up units like devastators and devastator centurions that are hiding on the upper floors of buildings in CC because it can fly. Then it can fall back 1" the following turn, shoot and charge again. A Crawler can't reach them.


You can't charge in the turn you fall back, but you can shoot if you have fly


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/05 15:25:02


Post by: sennacherib


I think this codex needs a detatchment of CSM to really do well. This gives you access to tide of traitors and powers like Death hex and prescience. Units like obliterators are pretty awesome too.

I used a blob of 40 shooting cultists in front of a unit of pox walkers in one of my last games. The cultists got ginned down but the unit of pox walkers reached 60. Killing them off was pretty much impossible. Bringing back the 40 strong un8t of cultists is pretty annoying.

Death hex is esssential for dealing with some armies. Obliterators give you the ability to provide backfield pressure and do a lot of damage now.

I take my predators out of CSM so that I can fill out a spearhead with those and obliterators. Just my thoughts on the matter


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/05 18:34:46


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Supreme Command

HQ:
Nurgle Herald
Fleshy Abundance
[70]

Sorcerer
Force Axe, Warptime/Prescience
[106]

Malefic Lord
Warp Flux, Creeping Terror
[30]

Lord of War:
Mortarion
[470]

[676]

Death Guard Battalion

HQ:
Typhus
[175]

Necrosius
[120]

Elites:
Noxious Blightbringer
Plasma Pistol, Bell
[70]

Troops:
(20) Poxwalkers
[120]

(20) Cultists
Autoguns, 2x Heavy Stubber
[88]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Blight Launcher, Plasma Gun
[174]

Foetid Bloat Drone
Fleshmower, Probe
[136]

Foetid Bloat Drone
Fleshmower, Probe
[136]

[1019]

R&H Spearhead

HQ:
Malefic Lord
Warp Flux, Creeping Terror
[30]

Malefic Lord
Warp Flux, Creeping Terror
[30]

Heavy:
Earthshaker Battery
[80]

Earthshaker Battery
[80]

Earthshaker Battery
[80]

[300]

[1998] 8CP

Thoughts on this? Trying to find a way to make a list that has a solid Morty strategy, but is backed up by a good mid-table horde and some artillery.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/05 21:27:18


Post by: Pandabeer


 sennacherib wrote:
I think this codex needs a detatchment of CSM to really do well. This gives you access to tide of traitors and powers like Death hex and prescience. Units like obliterators are pretty awesome too.

I used a blob of 40 shooting cultists in front of a unit of pox walkers in one of my last games. The cultists got ginned down but the unit of pox walkers reached 60. Killing them off was pretty much impossible. Bringing back the 40 strong un8t of cultists is pretty annoying.

Death hex is esssential for dealing with some armies. Obliterators give you the ability to provide backfield pressure and do a lot of damage now.

I take my predators out of CSM so that I can fill out a spearhead with those and obliterators. Just my thoughts on the matter


On the one hand I'd like to branch out to other chaos armies, but on the other hand I do want to keep my DG army fluffy so yeah... Mortarion getting a first turn charge thanks to Warptime just seems so... un-Nurgly. I like all 4 Chaos Gods though so in the end I might end up with a separate DG, WE, EC and TS army


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 03:36:51


Post by: Nightlord1987


So I was going to test out a fun, fluffy Typhus, Cultist and Pox Walker farm list. I had originally written in the big 40 man blob of cultists, in front of 3 units of 20 pox walkers, and Typhus.

An easy sounding approach, but all depends on getting first turn and activating Stratagems. Since dedicated Alpha Strike lists have fewer drops anyway, would splitting the Cultists into 4 min sized units work out better for morale tests? Currently my list has 10 drops.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 05:37:12


Post by: ZombieDK


Anyone seen any ETC mono DG buildes?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 15:56:46


Post by: Vortenger


em_en_oh_pee, why the herald over Epidemius? It would seem the army wide buffs would add more overall value to your demons than a herald. The herald's buff is limited by range and a slow move speed vs. the buff being army wide. Fleshy Abundance, while great, is only once per game round, whilst Epi's aura is active at all times. Over the course of 5 game rounds I see the difference being substantial.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 17:02:22


Post by: DarklyDreaming


Hi friends! I'm burning in doubt, after a couple of really sad games i still can't choose between this 2 lists:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [79 PL, 1496pts] ++

+ HQ [18 PL, 355pts] +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Daemonic axe [10pts], Fugaris' Helm, Putrescent Vitality, Wings [1 PL, 24pts]

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence

+ Troops [16 PL, 295pts] +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [36pts]
Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Plague Marines [7 PL, 135pts]
Plague Champion [33pts]: Plaguesword [1pts], Plasma gun [13pts]
2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [38pts]
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon [32pts]: Plasma gun [13pts]
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon [32pts]: Plasma gun [13pts]

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker [120pts]

+ Elites [21 PL, 367pts] +

Blightlord Terminators [14 PL, 240pts]
Blightlord Terminator [45pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [2pts]
Blightlord Terminator [45pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [2pts]
Blightlord Terminator [57pts]: Blight launcher [14pts], Bubotic Axe [5pts]
Blightlord Terminator [48pts]: Flail of Corruption [10pts]
Blightlord Terminator Champion [45pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [2pts]

Helbrute [7 PL, 127pts]: Helbrute plasma cannon [30pts], Missile launcher [25pts]

+ Fast Attack [6 PL, 99pts] +

Chaos Spawn [6 PL, 99pts]: Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts], Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts], Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 33pts]

+ Heavy Support [18 PL, 380pts] +

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 190pts]: Twin lascannon [50pts]
Two lascannons [50pts]: 2x Lascannon [50pts]

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 190pts]: Twin lascannon [50pts]
Two lascannons [50pts]: 2x Lascannon [50pts]

OR

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [84 PL, 1499pts] ++

+ HQ [18 PL, 355pts] +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Fugaris' Helm, Hellforged sword [10pts], Wings [1 PL, 24pts]

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]

+ Troops [18 PL, 208pts] +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 44pts]: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [40pts]
Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 44pts]: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [40pts]
Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker [120pts]

+ Elites [14 PL, 240pts] +

Blightlord Terminators [14 PL, 240pts]
Blightlord Terminator [45pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [2pts]
Blightlord Terminator [45pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [2pts]
Blightlord Terminator [48pts]: Flail of Corruption [10pts]
Blightlord Terminator [57pts]: Blight launcher [14pts], Bubotic Axe [5pts]
Blightlord Terminator Champion [45pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [2pts]

+ Fast Attack [16 PL, 316pts] +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters [34pts], Plague probe [25pts]

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters [34pts], Plague probe [25pts]

+ Heavy Support [18 PL, 380pts] +

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 190pts]: Twin lascannon [50pts]
Two lascannons [50pts]: 2x Lascannon [50pts]

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 190pts]: Twin lascannon [50pts]
Two lascannons [50pts]: 2x Lascannon [50pts]




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically the difference is: exchanging the helbrute, 3 spawns and PMs with 2 Bloatdrones.

The first list is more frail but I have a lot of heavy shootin (helbrute with stratagem can be impressive), and for the infantry I have poxes and terminators, the Prince support the firebase and charge whoever gets too near, the problem is the defensive potential, I was multicharged by orks and it was a sh**show; AND if the opponents shoots more than me, I dont know if I can cause much problem with typhus and the terminators in order to save the game.

The second list is better all around, but is not full defensive and the drones need a turn to get close to shoot, so I risk to get the preds shot turn one and the drones turn 2, without doing any damage

What do you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically in this months I learned 4 lessons:
1-Poxwalkers have some game: against light infantry they can become a nightmare, once you reach a critical point were the damage they do is more that the one they get, for the enemy is over, since they are the only unit in the game who grows in certain situations; they need to be played in one big unit, since they benefit from a lot of buffs.
2-Daemon Prince is god: flying you can hide him avoiding damage in every situation, and strike when necessary, you need to play him carefully but he s so flexible.
3- Terminators and Typhus are resistent as they seem: but they need cover and the miasma, and they must DS in the center of the table, as they will get simply ignored otherwise; and the Flail my god, I killed 12 orks in a turn with one and the blade of Contagion power.
4- PMs seems to suck a lot, at least shooting they always disapoint me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 17:38:07


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Vortenger wrote:
em_en_oh_pee, why the herald over Epidemius? It would seem the army wide buffs would add more overall value to your demons than a herald. The herald's buff is limited by range and a slow move speed vs. the buff being army wide. Fleshy Abundance, while great, is only once per game round, whilst Epi's aura is active at all times. Over the course of 5 game rounds I see the difference being substantial.


Not really that many Daemons to make him worth it, imo. The bonuses aren't that game-changing for this specific list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 18:49:19


Post by: gwarsh41


Look into daemon engines to make Epidemius worth it. Plague Hulk, bloat drones, decimator, death guard tanks, I think the decimator too. Any big scary daemon/nurgle gets a nice oomph from it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 18:50:17


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Look into daemon engines to make Epidemius worth it. Plague Hulk, bloat drones, decimator, death guard tanks, I think the decimator too. Any big scary daemon/nurgle gets a nice oomph from it.


Not really the direction I was taking my list. I understand the idea, but really was going for something a bit more competitive... ideally.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 19:01:41


Post by: duWhee


Thinking about the situational use of 2 PBCs to camp a backfield to midfield objective. I figure the 2 PBCs can flank the objective so enemy units can’t get close enough even in melee. Plaguespitters make charging unappetizing, and invul/DR can hold them a long time in melee. They can spend their free time bombarding hidden units. Of course that means no Entropy cannons unfortunately.

My main attack is gonna be morty with bloat drones followed by Typhus, 2-3 Plaguecasters and PMs (5x2) fitted with 2 Blightlaunchers and the rest for Melee.

I haven’t pointed the list out yet, as I am still assembling the army.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 19:31:18


Post by: Dr. Temujin


 Raphael the Raven wrote:
I absolutely agree with everything you said except the part about Typhus with Poxwalkers and the durability of Plague Marines. I think both Plague Marines and Poxwalkers need a slight cost reduction to bring them in line with their competitors but I don't think you are handicapping yourself drastically just by using them. One squad of Plague Marines is fine and poxwalkers mixed with ranged cultists are too. Hellbrutes not having DR bugs me more then either of those TBH.

I'd add Hellbrutes / possessed not having DR, Plague Surgeons being trash tier, Sorcerer being completely useless next to Plaguecaster, and Tallyman / Blightspawn not having at least plague knifes to things that I would like to see addressed along with what you already mentioned. The more I've played the more obvious the conclusion is that the only thing in the codex that is "god awful wtf was GW thinking when they made this absolute garbage" is the plague surgeon. Any other issues with the book can be fixed with tweaks (like you said points efficiency) which hopefully chapter approved will bring.


Wait, how come Plague Surgeons are trash-tier? You'd think that re-roll 1s for DR is an improvement for survivability.

Also for the purposes of screening, which unit would be better: Poxwalkers, Cultists, or Plaguebearers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 19:37:23


Post by: sennacherib


I feel like cultists are cheaper and super snooty. A unit of 40 is 120 pts. They did quick but then you can bring them back with the tide of traitors strategem.

Backed by a unit or two of pox walkers you can use the Dead 2alk strategem and have a unit of 60 pox walkers pretty quick.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/06 23:39:36


Post by: Vortenger


@Dr., Plague Surgeons are trash tier because the re-roll grants you roughly a 5% increase to DR rolls. That isn't impressive, even if it is pretty cheap.

@Em, Makes sense. I guess I'm just not seeing how your herald is keeping up with those fast moving daemons without summoning. If you deploy him for backline units I could see the gain, but he's slow and your backline seems to gain little from his presence. Summoning him near combat with Morty once locked in makes sense, but you couldn't have used him as an HQ then. How does he help you more than another Malefic Lord or Epi at which point?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 02:03:02


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Fleshy Abundance has pretty good range. I figure he can keep up with the horde and buff someone. Probably more efficient to run two Malefics, but that seemed too obvious. So I figured I would do a little something different. Though I could drop a Malefic and probably make room for Epi, if I wanted.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 17:30:47


Post by: Denny


Any ideas for making possessed work?

I have the bits to make some great Nurgle possessed, but I'm not sure what they contribute.
Cloud of Flies could work, providing you have Nurglings or something up front. The tallyman would work except he's too slow. 1+ S&T is good, but it's probably better on Plague Marines.

Anything else?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 20:34:13


Post by: SilverAlien


So uh, just tossing out that PBCs got kinda borderline mandatory if you want any sort of armor in your list. Thanks to the new buffed shadow sword it's basically the only tank in our list (or most others) that won't get blown of the field. Or run lascannon dreads so it ends up being massive overkill. Predators basically got turned into garbage that won't last a second.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 20:41:10


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


So you're saying because of one tank in one army I should be forced to always use a crawler? Not really getting that argument I'm afraid.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 20:46:44


Post by: Elgrun


Hey, is the plague surgeon the weakest of these deathguard special elite chars? Is the buff he gives really not that good? Am undecided


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 21:25:38


Post by: Ecdain


Sgt. Cortez wrote:
So you're saying because of one tank in one army I should be forced to always use a crawler? Not really getting that argument I'm afraid.


I agree for the most part, but might I say one thing

Stormravens


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 21:49:03


Post by: SilverAlien


Yeah, strong individual units have historically defined the meta. Scatterbikes, riptide, stormravens, Magnus, etc, so it is worth mentioning when something like that pops up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/07 23:55:05


Post by: ZergSmasher


Okay, so here's a more off-the-wall list I came up with while tinkering around in Battlescribe. Low model count, but very fast moving, basically spam the crap out of the Foetid Bloat-drones:
Spoiler:
Detachment 1: Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Mortarion
Detachment 2: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword, The Suppurating Plate
Troops:
17x Poxwalkers
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
Foetid Bloat-drone: Fleshmower
Foetid Bloat-drone: Fleshmower
Detachment 3: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Total 1996 points

I especially like the fact that there are Nurgle's number of Bloat drones. The Poxies are in there because I wasn't sure how to use the remaining 106 points; maybe it would be better to bring a small number of Plague Marines, although there's really no room for upgrades. Not sure how good this list really is but it would be fun to try if I wanted to buy a bunch of the drones. What do you all think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 00:12:02


Post by: SilverAlien


I think you'll be very disappointed by those drones if you go throw route. They aren't that impressive right now, particularly the heavy blight launcher.

By all means give it a shot, it could be the mobility ends up giving a big advantage or something.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 02:21:49


Post by: ballzonya


With the plague marine kit is there enough bits to do full close combat with 7 guys?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 03:50:10


Post by: Luciferian


ballzonya wrote:
With the plague marine kit is there enough bits to do full close combat with 7 guys?


I don't think there are quite enough, certainly not enough for an optimized squad. There are 2 axes, 1 flail, 1 mace, 1 cleaver, and some extra knives. I highly recommend getting the Putrid Blightkings weapon arms from a bits dealer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 09:43:29


Post by: broxus


Hands down the best special character in the DG book is Foul Blightspawn. I used him in an event and he is a one man wrecking crew. He knocked Stormravens out of the air, Wulfun and terminators all died to his foul plauge sprayer. It is an assault weapon, D6 shots, plague weapon, 3-Damage, -3 AP, 2D6 STR weapon. Put Mortarian around him so he rerolls all those failed wounds and you just owns. Not to mention he can give a character a 2D6 grenade to throw and has Revolting stench not allowing chargers to attack first within 7” of him. He did some serious work for me and is now an auto include. It is suicide to charge him....


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 09:55:24


Post by: Jidmah


 ZergSmasher wrote:
Okay, so here's a more off-the-wall list I came up with while tinkering around in Battlescribe. Low model count, but very fast moving, basically spam the crap out of the Foetid Bloat-drones:
Spoiler:
Detachment 1: Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Mortarion
Detachment 2: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword, The Suppurating Plate
Troops:
17x Poxwalkers
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
Foetid Bloat-drone: Fleshmower
Foetid Bloat-drone: Fleshmower
Detachment 3: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Total 1996 points

I especially like the fact that there are Nurgle's number of Bloat drones. The Poxies are in there because I wasn't sure how to use the remaining 106 points; maybe it would be better to bring a small number of Plague Marines, although there's really no room for upgrades. Not sure how good this list really is but it would be fun to try if I wanted to buy a bunch of the drones. What do you all think?


All those units are daemons of nurgle. Why not Epidemius?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 10:47:39


Post by: darthryan


What do people think of taking a blightspawn as warlord with archcontaminator and either the plate or the helm


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 16:33:13


Post by: cerberus_


darthryan wrote:
What do people think of taking a blightspawn as warlord with archcontaminator and either the plate or the helm


Blightspawn is an elite choice, not an HQ.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 17:01:37


Post by: Nightlord1987


cerberus_ wrote:
darthryan wrote:
What do people think of taking a blightspawn as warlord with archcontaminator and either the plate or the helm


Blightspawn is an elite choice, not an HQ.


Any Character can be the Warlord.

Personally, I wouldn't make such a high priority model the warlord.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 17:57:33


Post by: Kzraahk


Hey guys, what are your thoughts on PBCs vs Blight Haulers? I've only tried a single Hauler in a small game. Found him a bit lacking in firepower but the cover aura was awesome.

Which would you like best? 2 Drones and 3 Haulers or 3 Drones and 3 Crawlers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 18:26:51


Post by: ZergSmasher


 Jidmah wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
Okay, so here's a more off-the-wall list I came up with while tinkering around in Battlescribe. Low model count, but very fast moving, basically spam the crap out of the Foetid Bloat-drones:
Spoiler:
Detachment 1: Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Mortarion
Detachment 2: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword, The Suppurating Plate
Troops:
17x Poxwalkers
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
Foetid Bloat-drone: Fleshmower
Foetid Bloat-drone: Fleshmower
Detachment 3: Outrider Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Total 1996 points

I especially like the fact that there are Nurgle's number of Bloat drones. The Poxies are in there because I wasn't sure how to use the remaining 106 points; maybe it would be better to bring a small number of Plague Marines, although there's really no room for upgrades. Not sure how good this list really is but it would be fun to try if I wanted to buy a bunch of the drones. What do you all think?


All those units are daemons of nurgle. Why not Epidemius?

Epidemius does not have the <DEATH GUARD> keyword, so I'd lose my stratagems, etc. Of course maybe just taking him in the smaller detachment would be okay as Foetid Drones aren't likely to use those stratagems anyway. Hadn't really thought about it. Like I said, I'm not sure this concept is competitive anyway, but it might be fun to run. I'm not looking forward to buying all those Foetid drones, though...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 18:48:16


Post by: Vortenger


@Kzraahk, depends on what units the hauler escorts. If escorting PMs then one will do. If escorting poxwalkers, the Deredeo dread offers more survivability and better weaponry. The PBC is always the right choice otherwise.

As of right now, there is little reason to run multiple haulers. Per point their weapons are mediocre, and if you buy in for a tri-lobe for that sweet accuracy buff it doesn't take much effort to destroy one of the haulers and invalidate a major part of that purchase. You could use Cloud of Flies to keep the heat off for a couple rounds, but that's something else that doesn't gain CoF. You'd have to gain quite a bit from the stratagem to make that worth it.

If only the tri-lobe also gave an additional +1 cover bonus like camo cloaks.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 19:15:07


Post by: Kzraahk


I guess you're right. I'm trying to run multiple PM squads since I don't wanna go the Typhus+Poxwalkers route, so I guess one for cover should be fine.

Thanks!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/08 22:09:52


Post by: stratigo


SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah, strong individual units have historically defined the meta. Scatterbikes, riptide, stormravens, Magnus, etc, so it is worth mentioning when something like that pops up.


The shadow sword isn’t meta defining. It is a trap. The guard armies that will paddle your ass will have zero super heavies and will be unbeatable no matter how you build your death guard, so best not to try and tailor towards a list you can’t beat


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/09 07:38:20


Post by: OutOfManaException


Any recommendations on what loadout to put on Decimators? I've heard dual Soulburners are good now.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/09 13:26:28


Post by: gwarsh41


soulburners are pretty damned awesome, but at 60pt each, it gets a bit expensive. I ran 2 in a game and the output was really nice. The 10" move, and them being assault means you can generally stay in range of shooting, and away from too many charge threats, because if it gets in melee with dual soulburners, it's pretty much done.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/09 13:37:58


Post by: Wayniac


ballzonya wrote:
With the plague marine kit is there enough bits to do full close combat with 7 guys?


Depends on if you are min-maxing or not. There's what looks like 2 (maybe 3?) axes, 1 mace, 1 flail, 1 cleaver, 1 power fist (for champion), 1 of each special weapon.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/09 15:15:25


Post by: sennacherib


I use three dreads in my list. 147 pts for a twin las and a ml. Yes please.

As for PBC. Not mandatory. Everything exists in a vacuume. The shadowsword is a lot of points. Easily aced by some units. Having so many pints in one basket is risky business.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/09 18:11:02


Post by: gwarsh41


So the Fugaris helm on Foul Blightspawn seems like the way to do it if you are not running the Suppurating Plate on a daemon prince. Is there a character that would be better to use the helm on, or any relic that just seems so much better than those two?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/09 18:49:24


Post by: duWhee


I’ve been running my Plaguecaster with the helm, mostly because he is the only other character I am running that has an aura. Typhus is the other, and he can’t take the helm. 10” mortal wound range on a successful psychic test is useful, since I charge both Typhus and Plaguecaster in with the Poxwalkers. It’s the added insult to injury since I like to cast Smite, Plague Wind, Smite and Maisma to pump up the poxwalkers. This group follows in behind Bloat-Drones, so shooting the Poxwalkers is anlow priority.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 00:10:02


Post by: broxus


I thought I would share my experiences playing at local event Sunday. I had a 1500pt list that I thought was ok, but turned out better than I thought. My feedback is below:


1) Blight drone w/ plaguespitters: I had one of these in my list to try it out. I must admit it exceeded my expectations in every game. Being able to move , run, and still shoot your 2D6 auto hit weapons is very powerful. The Blight drone can easily keep up with Mortarian while moving up the table. He works very well with Mortaian’s -1 Toughness aura making the drone’s plaguespitters wound on 2+ rerolling 1s. In addition, I frequently charged in the Blight drone before Mortarian to soak up overwatch fire saving valuable wounds on the big guy himself. Overall, I think if you run Mortarian it makes sense to run at least one Blight drone with plague spitters. You will appreciate its speed, flexibility, lethality, and survivability. I don’t know if more than one is needed in a list.

2) Foul Blightspawn: The MVP of most of my games. I never used his ability to give a grenade to a hero (forgot) or his ability to interrupt combat. However, I did use his plague sprayer. For those of you who don’t know it is a 9” auto hitting assault weapon, with D6 shots at 2D6 STR, -3 AP, 3 Damage, and a plague weapon rerolling 1s to wound. This guy melted everything it came near. He knocked Stormravens out of the air, killed entire terminator units, and made quick work of any deep striking units. His ability to move 5”, run D6, then shoot 9” (20” possible threat range) makes people under estimate him. He was simply amazing. I highly recommend using one of him in you list, for only 77pts he is worth every point.

3) Mortarian: Well he is just amazingly killy. In every game my opponents underestimated him and his ability to kill stuff. What ever he gets close to dies and the -1 Toughness aura works very well with everything in the army. He is also more resilient than you would think with the 4+ invulnerable save. If you face a multiple MEQ units he just makes them disappear. I did not play any super shooty army so I can’t say how good he will be in every game. If anything he will give your opponent serious heartburn if they cant kill him turn 1 or 2. It is likely that you will need warptime if you play him in super competitive environments.

3) Blightlord Terminators: These guys were surprisingly good. I had originally planned on only giving them axes and combi-bolters to keep their cost down. However, in the event I decided to experiment by giving them combi-meltas. Wow do those meltaguns do some work and are a massive threat to your enemies backline. You simply can’t ignore these guys. They work extremely well if you deep-strike them in turn 1 to help take pressure off of Mortarian. This will give your enemy to many targets to deal with. Once they got in combat they seemed to do ok, not amazing even with the flail. However, since they are so slow it is hard to get them where you need them or to get into charging range. They don’t do much in melee agains vehicles for sure. I think these guys are a great distraction capable of taking focus away from Mortarian, but wouldn’t over estimate their capabilities.

4) Plague Marines: I ran my squads with 3 plasma guns. They were ok and did their job well. Generally, my opponent ignored them since they had to many other bigger targets to deal with. The plasma guns did ok and their 18” rapid fire range was very useful. For 134pts these guys were good for holding objectives and providing mid range fire. They are pretty durable and can soak up a great deal of firepower. Don’t set your expectations higher than they should be for a 134pt unit and use them in the roles they were designed and you will likely not be disappointed.

5) Typhus: Honestly he didn’t do very much for me at all. I always deep-striked him in with my blightlord terminators to buff them with his psychic powers. He is so slow it is hard to get him into combat. I think he only got into combat in one game and died to some powerfists. With 4 attacks he is better at attacking vehicles more than infantry. I honestly don’t know if he is the best option or I should run a sorcerer in terminator armor instead. I will have to continue to monitor to see if I keep him in my list.

6) Daemon Prince: I gave this guy the Supperating Plate and wings. He was suprisingly mobile and durable. Being able to charge into large melee units that don’t have AP weapons really makes things hard for them when he saves on a 2+ and does mortal wounds on a 4+. He is pretty killy with his talons, but only against medium infantry and if Mortarian is around to reduce units toughness. He really can’t do much against vehicles other than tie them up and force them to fall back in their phase. He is great flying into MEQ units and striking other softer targets. His aura to reroll 1s is also very helpful especially to plasma guns. However, he was rarely able to do this since he was always forward of my PM units.

My plan every game was simple. Push forward Mortarian, the Daemon Prince, the bloat drone, and deep strike my terminators and Typhus turn one. My plague marines and foul blightspawn stayed mid field to secure objectives and provide mid range firepower. I always cast miasma on Mortarian. Typhus cast vitality and blades on the terminators, and the my remaining two spells were usually smite. My opponent usually split fire and never killed any of the units. I then moved forward with everything again and by then it was to late for them. Nothing survived past turn 3. Admittedly, I never played any horde or armor lists so I can’t give feedback on those. However, playing against the vehicles I did Mortarian and my melta terminators made quick work of them.

I hope this helps someone out there please let me know if you have any other questions..



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 13:33:23


Post by: Wayniac


5-man squads with 3 plasma guns, I presume?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 13:38:06


Post by: gwarsh41


Thanks for the breakdown broxus. I've got a game tonight with Blightspawn, Morty, and bloatdrones. I'll have the drones flank morty and see how it goes! I'm running 2x7 PM in rhinos, both with a blightspawn escort. Like you said, at 77pt, he just seems too good not to take.
I've only got to try the blightspawn in one game, but he was a good deterrent against charges, and really helped make the plague marines shine.
Also bringing blightlords, only tried them once, and it was a 8k game so they didn't really do much. I'm running a plasma squad with autocannon, and a flamer squad with the plague spewer, mostly for kicks and giggles, but I'm hoping they do great things.

The supperating prince was a staple in all my other lists, but I have trouble cramming in all the toys I like to bring. I really want to convert a cool prince for it. I'm thinking of using gullyboy's armor as the plate.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 13:54:38


Post by: Pestilens


How death guard plays against AM???


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 15:22:33


Post by: Rhyltran


Pestilens wrote:
How death guard plays against AM???


AM is going to be rough but this is true ATM for any army against them. AM is probably the toughest army at the moment in my opinion.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 18:13:03


Post by: broxus


Wayniac wrote:
5-man squads with 3 plasma guns, I presume?
Always since I think it is by far the best all around Choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Thanks for the breakdown broxus. I've got a game tonight with Blightspawn, Morty, and bloatdrones. I'll have the drones flank morty and see how it goes! I'm running 2x7 PM in rhinos, both with a blightspawn escort. Like you said, at 77pt, he just seems too good not to take.
I've only got to try the blightspawn in one game, but he was a good deterrent against charges, and really helped make the plague marines shine.
Also bringing blightlords, only tried them once, and it was a 8k game so they didn't really do much. I'm running a plasma squad with autocannon, and a flamer squad with the plague spewer, mostly for kicks and giggles, but I'm hoping they do great things.

The supperating prince was a staple in all my other lists, but I have trouble cramming in all the toys I like to bring. I really want to convert a cool prince for it. I'm thinking of using gullyboy's armor as the plate.


Try using Melta on my blight lords. Plasma isn’t worth it since they will likely never been in range to reroll ones. Also I think the auto cannon is terrible as an option. Deamon prince with plate will make back its points and is always and excellent addition in the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rhyltran wrote:
Pestilens wrote:
How death guard plays against AM???


AM is going to be rough but this is true ATM for any army against them. AM is probably the toughest army at the moment in my opinion.
yep AM is just broke. I felt so bad playing them in the index I decided to play Death Guard instead. Since the codex release and playing some games felt so bad for my opponent I decided to shelf the army until they get a deserved nerf.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 19:58:34


Post by: Pestilens


They are very broken, that's a reality, but wich tools do we have against them??? We are so slow... I never get to their board camp


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 20:45:03


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 gwarsh41 wrote:
autocannon, and a flamer squad with the plague spewer


I think that both plasma and melta termy can be great, with or without bells(appropriate) and whistles (more a slaaneshi thing?) like autocannons, lanuchers and flails.

But are flamer ones viable? Do you plan to use a transport or a sorcerer support?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 20:56:43


Post by: Rhyltran


Pestilens wrote:
They are very broken, that's a reality, but wich tools do we have against them??? We are so slow... I never get to their board camp


From my testing it's best not to build to beat Imperial Guard. We're not going to have a good time against them anyway and there's no point in sacrificing your capabilities against other armies. In magic the gathering my advice is much the same. Build to beat what you can handle and prepare to have options against difficult lists but don't bother trying to make changes for something that you're not likely to beat anyway.

However, that being said, Fleshmowers can make IG lists salty when utilized well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 21:09:27


Post by: broxus


How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 21:15:04


Post by: Rhyltran


broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.


I usually use them along side a Daemon Prince who can support them with Miasma of Pestilence. The daemon prince will obviously need wings for this strategy.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 21:19:03


Post by: gwarsh41


Fleshmower seems like discount talons daemon prince, but when you compare them apples to apples, I feel like the DP will come out on top and be well worth the 50 or so more points it costs.

I am a bit too lazy to mathhammer it out, but while the drone has more attacks at higher strength, the DP has re-rolls to hit, better hit rolls, can hide thanks to being character, and can cast a spell, such as blades of putrefacation, to make them that much better.

I like the mowers look, but comparing the two really makes the plaguespitters look all that much better



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 21:27:30


Post by: Rhyltran


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Fleshmower seems like discount talons daemon prince, but when you compare them apples to apples, I feel like the DP will come out on top and be well worth the 50 or so more points it costs.

I am a bit too lazy to mathhammer it out, but while the drone has more attacks at higher strength, the DP has re-rolls to hit, better hit rolls, can hide thanks to being character, and can cast a spell, such as blades of putrefacation, to make them that much better.

I like the mowers look, but comparing the two really makes the plaguespitters look all that much better



I agree in general but I think it's a bit more complicated than that. From practice it feels like a Daemon Prince acting as a force multiplier for a pair of flesh mowers is really nice. This means on paper you get the re-rolls to hit, and they can be buffed. Not to mention, as you mentioned, they're cheaper. This allows you to field more units as well as a by-product.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 21:45:59


Post by: Wayniac


broxus wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
5-man squads with 3 plasma guns, I presume?
Always since I think it is by far the best all around Choice.


I may have to experiment; I am partial to 7-man for fluff and for a little extra wounds. I'm really curious about blight launcher vs. plasma though; consensus seems to be plasma is better because Plasma, but Blight Launchers will let you make the most out of being able to Advance and still shoot (I really wish it would have let Rapid Fire count as assault, instead of just letting you advance and fire Assault, because Death Guard have woefully few Assault weapons).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 21:57:01


Post by: Vortenger


broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.


More than any other unit in the Codex, Fleshmower Drones gain from Mortarion's re-roll aura (PBC's would get honorable mention, if they ever wanted to close to melee). Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura. So they seem to be best as Morty's ablative escort. 'Spitter Drones don't roll to hit at all, and gain nothing from the big guy's aura (or DP's), so make better independent operators or flankers moving up an opposite side from the Primarch. Spitters do seem to have much more general application in the army though, agreed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/10 22:36:22


Post by: Rhyltran


Vortenger wrote:
broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.


More than any other unit in the Codex, Fleshmower Drones gain from Mortarion's re-roll aura (PBC's would get honorable mention, if they ever wanted to close to melee). Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura. So they seem to be best as Morty's ablative escort. 'Spitter Drones don't roll to hit at all, and gain nothing from the big guy's aura (or DP's), so make better independent operators or flankers moving up an opposite side from the Primarch. Spitters do seem to have much more general application in the army though, agreed.


I agree with this 100%. Plaguespitters are more versatile than the flesh mower but if you're already running a tight list and have Morty or a Daemon Prince the Fleshmowers aren't a bad addition by any means.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 00:01:56


Post by: Dr. Temujin


Wayniac wrote:

I may have to experiment; I am partial to 7-man for fluff and for a little extra wounds. I'm really curious about blight launcher vs. plasma though; consensus seems to be plasma is better because Plasma, but Blight Launchers will let you make the most out of being able to Advance and still shoot (I really wish it would have let Rapid Fire count as assault, instead of just letting you advance and fire Assault, because Death Guard have woefully few Assault weapons).


I think there are two main reasons why people prefer plasma over blight launchers:

1) Rapid-fire range has been increased to 18". That encourages Plague Marines to move close enough into double-tap range, while enemy squads with plasma have to scoot 6", possibly out of cover, to do the same thing.

2) The sergeant can also take a plasma gun, instead of just a pistol, for a total of 3 plasma guns in each squad. That means 6 plasma shots at Double-tap range.

At least, that's how it is on paper. If you want to try out Blight-Launchers instead, give them a shot and see how they work out for you.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 01:05:11


Post by: Vortenger


I begin to wonder if the Blight Launcher isn't really meant for DG. CSM Plague Marines don't gain our snazzy rapid fire range bonus, which would make the plasma much less appealing. Launchers are an effective elite infantry killer with a fairly unique profile and are just as good for legion marines. It and the flails are solid choices for any Chaos warband.

This is relevant to anyone not wanting to run a DG army but still wanting some of the new Nurgle love. I don't believe CSM has access to any of the other new releases, do they? At least they have some strong flavorful options now.

It also leaves us a viable all-round weapon should plasma or our Legion trait change or get the nerfhammer some day down the road. Rules change but plastic is forever.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 01:33:47


Post by: broxus


Yea my wouldn’t say the fleshmower is bad. However, not being able to run and charge and only hitting on a 4+ really sucks. I also don’t like it can be charged by screening units to lock it down. In contrast, the plaguespitter, can run and shoot, doesn’t have a hit roll, is amazing in defensive fire, can leave combat and still shoot, and is ok in combat.

Is all of that worth 19 extra points? I sure think so. I want even planning on putting drones in my list. Since I saw how good they were in my last event I won’t leave home without one now. Honestly, no one can argue the fleshmower wins in the coolness competition.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 06:49:03


Post by: duWhee


Plague Wind was meant for infantry hordes. On average, a 30-model conscripts should suffer 6 mortal wounds. Nice in itself, but really nice with Poxwalkers inside of 7” and the Dead Walk Again. I march at least 1 plaguecaster with Typhus and Poxwalkers. Flank that with a bloat-drone or two, and the Zombie Tide will roll. The first time you see your Poxwalker unit “expand” 24” downfield will make you a believer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 09:40:42


Post by: Marshal Loss


Vortenger wrote:
broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.
Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura.


Mortarion still only has a re-roll 1's to hit aura - his WL trait Arch Contaminator gives re-rolls to wound with plague weapons, but any DP/Lord can take that also and thus provide identical buffs to hit and wound with plague weapons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 11:13:04


Post by: sennacherib


Daemon prince with Arch contaminator And supturating plate seems like a great fit with a unit of either plague drones with spitters or mowers.

Both mowers and spitters are plague weapons. Re roll to wound with both weapons is pretty nasty.

You could also give the tallyman the fugaris helm and arch contaminator. Then the mowers would be re-roll to hit and re roll to wound. 3.6 dead marines per mower. Or s9mething like 7 hull points from a Vehicle.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 14:23:40


Post by: Pandabeer


Vortenger wrote:
broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.


More than any other unit in the Codex, Fleshmower Drones gain from Mortarion's re-roll aura (PBC's would get honorable mention, if they ever wanted to close to melee). Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura. So they seem to be best as Morty's ablative escort. 'Spitter Drones don't roll to hit at all, and gain nothing from the big guy's aura (or DP's), so make better independent operators or flankers moving up an opposite side from the Primarch. Spitters do seem to have much more general application in the army though, agreed.


Doesn't Mortarion only give reroll 1s to hit instead of everything?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
duWhee wrote:
Plague Wind was meant for infantry hordes. On average, a 30-model conscripts should suffer 6 mortal wounds. Nice in itself, but really nice with Poxwalkers inside of 7” and the Dead Walk Again. I march at least 1 plaguecaster with Typhus and Poxwalkers. Flank that with a bloat-drone or two, and the Zombie Tide will roll. The first time you see your Poxwalker unit “expand” 24” downfield will make you a believer.


True if well executed, but I'm not looking forward to the prospect of having to buy, assemble and paint 100 poxies for just that purpose.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/11 15:00:57


Post by: Vortenger


Right you are, Marshal. Oops.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 00:49:15


Post by: Captain Garius


So I will preface this with the fact that I am still very new to DG. Long time SM and Ork player and I have always performed well with unusual lists and playing with models that were considered sub par.

My core list is built around a Battallion, Vanguard, and Outrider. I have played around with others, and soon I have a buddy coming over that I will get to play a few games proxying to test out some of the new stuff. My core elements are as follows:

Poxwalkers - 1 unit of 20 and then another of 10+ (depending on points). The 20 screen my PM and the others either hold objectives or screen backfielders.

Plague Marines - I like one massive melee blob. 20 with 2 Blight Launchers, 2 flails, 5 axes, 1 banner and the rest dual knives with a champion having Powerfist and Plasma Pistol. They march behind the Poxwalkers, safe with Plague of Flies, and use grenades before charging. I like the pistol over the plasma gun on the Champion because the point is melee, so I am either advancing, or I am in combat. In combat it is a nice added punch and I feel the added cost of the gun isn't worth the likely 1 time per game I would get to rapid fire it over the shots with the pistol in CC.

From there I keep whiffling about other things. After reading previous posts I am tempted to try the Blight Lords with Plasma and a Lord, or Melta and Typhus. I also want to try out 3 PBC. I have been doing 3 Bloat Drones and a DP, and it has seemed great, but I have a lot to check out. As I play games I'll come back and give my experiences on them.

In defense of Pox Walkers I think more than anything they are a horde insurance plan. They will tear apart other weak hordes, and this is one of the best answers we have to lots of little guys (grenades being the other). I like putting both in the same list, and then adding other stuff too. If I don't need the horde defence then the Poxwalkers are just bullet magnets, but they tend to take a fair bit of punishment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 03:28:00


Post by: duWhee


If your poxwalkers are only a meat shield, Chaos Cultists would be a better choice. They cost less and can shoot.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 06:04:02


Post by: Milkshaker


Hey guys, do you have any tips for dealing with bullgryns with psyker support? They hit quite hard and with their good inv save, toughness and wounds can be hard to remove.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 07:10:18


Post by: Tetsu0


Do you guys think that fugaris' helm on a lord of contagion gives a boost to aura size on both parts of nurgle's gift? Specifically an increase to the "roll a dice for each enemy within 1" inch part?" I think it could potentially make LoC have a use with pox walker lists, allowing them to cause mortal wounds while not having to be in combat with the enemy.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 09:43:11


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Tetsu0 wrote:
Do you guys think that fugaris' helm on a lord of contagion gives a boost to aura size on both parts of nurgle's gift? Specifically an increase to the "roll a dice for each enemy within 1" inch part?" I think it could potentially make LoC have a use with pox walker lists, allowing them to cause mortal wounds while not having to be in combat with the enemy.

Previously discussed here :

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/740392.page


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 11:13:59


Post by: Emicrania


Hi there, I am building my list and I find myself a bit stuck. If I wanna include a nurgle herald and ,say, 30 PB + 1 nurglins, would I love IA (the advance stuff I can't never write properly) and all the DG stratagems?
How summoning works as list building ?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 11:17:36


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 Emicrania wrote:
Hi there, I am building my list and I find myself a bit stuck. If I wanna include a nurgle herald and ,say, 30 PB + 1 nurglins, would I love IA (the advance stuff I can't never write properly) and all the DG stratagems?
How summoning works as list building ?

For summoning , don't add the units to your list, just set aside the points.
For what you want, adding a patrol detachment would probably be best


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 12:23:52


Post by: Emicrania


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
Hi there, I am building my list and I find myself a bit stuck. If I wanna include a nurgle herald and ,say, 30 PB + 1 nurglins, would I love IA (the advance stuff I can't never write properly) and all the DG stratagems?
How summoning works as list building ?

For summoning , don't add the units to your list, just set aside the points.
For what you want, adding a patrol detachment would probably be best


So if I want to add just the plaguebeares I don't need another detachment and is enough to set them aside?
Sorry if the question is a bit dumb but I didnt understand what battle forged means this ed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 12:49:14


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Battleforged just means all units are in detachments (with one common army keyword). Daemon summoning is a totally separate mechanic that has nothing to do with list building, it's just a way to turn unused points into units during the battkr.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 14:07:38


Post by: killerpenguin


What do you guys think about the new myphitic blight hauler and plagueburst crawler?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 14:55:34


Post by: Qlanth


Is the PBC worth taking over a Helbrute who gets access to IA?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 16:18:32


Post by: Pandabeer


Qlanth wrote:
Is the PBC worth taking over a Helbrute who gets access to IA?


IA?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 16:39:03


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Pandabeer wrote:
Qlanth wrote:
Is the PBC worth taking over a Helbrute who gets access to IA?


IA?


Inexorable Advance.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 17:05:06


Post by: Emicrania


But than plaguebearers are ok to use as battle forged with DG or not?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 17:33:42


Post by: Wayniac


 Emicrania wrote:
But than plaguebearers are ok to use as battle forged with DG or not?


Battle-forged yes, but taking them in the same detachment will mean that detachment does NOT get the death guard legion traits (e.g. Inexorable Advance) because it's not 100% made up of DEATH GUARD keywords. These are two different things. Battle-forged just means that everything is in a detachment of some kind and shares at least 1 keyword (e.g. CHAOS). However, to get the legion traits you need to have all models have <LEGION> (Death Guard, in this case) which plaguebearers in the same detachment would break.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 17:58:14


Post by: Vortenger


Edit: nevermind, I was late to the party


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 19:10:59


Post by: Dew


Hey guys, question.
I have been working on a fluffy Nurgle Daemon army mostly to practice some paint skills and such.
I'm loving the new DG and I would like to build a decent (doesn't need to be tournament winning) tac list combining the two.
I have 777 points of Nurgle Daemons, just as Papa Nurgle would want. Including:
Nurgle Daemon Prince
9 Nurglings
20 Plaugebearers
1 Herald
3 Plaugue Drones

I also just got the Dark Emprium DG set.
Being so new to DG and CSM in general, can anyone recommend what else I should look into to help and compliment my Nurgle's children list to 2k?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 19:47:45


Post by: Pandabeer


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
Qlanth wrote:
Is the PBC worth taking over a Helbrute who gets access to IA?


IA?


Inexorable Advance.


Ahhh. Well, in general I think the Crawler is better, the Helbrute has a niche role with a TwinLas + ML configuration combined with Fire Frenzy though. Problem with the Brutes is that they're too squishy for their cost, a Crawler can easily take double or even triple the punishment (depending on weapons used against it. Crawlers laugh at melta's) a Brute can before going down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote:
Hey guys, question.
I have been working on a fluffy Nurgle Daemon army mostly to practice some paint skills and such.
I'm loving the new DG and I would like to build a decent (doesn't need to be tournament winning) tac list combining the two.
I have 777 points of Nurgle Daemons, just as Papa Nurgle would want. Including:
Nurgle Daemon Prince
9 Nurglings
20 Plaugebearers
1 Herald
3 Plaugue Drones

I also just got the Dark Emprium DG set.
Being so new to DG and CSM in general, can anyone recommend what else I should look into to help and compliment my Nurgle's children list?


Can't have a DG army without Mortarion. Besides being strong on the tabletop it's also a very worthwhile painting project and an awesome looking model. If you're going for a lot of daemons you might want to look into Epidemius as well. Not entirely sure what to support Mortarion with that is not Warptime + Prescience though, looking into that as well. Maybe a Blighthauler might help with it's cover aura (provided Mortarion fits entirely within it's 7" aura). Deathshroud Terminators are also good if you find a way to get them into CC together with Mortarion.

Edit: Never mind the Blighthaulers, only infantry can benefit from it's cover aura and Morty counts as a monster.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 21:22:15


Post by: gwarsh41


I see a lot of people mentioning using blighthaulers in lists. What are you using as proxies?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 21:32:46


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I see a lot of people mentioning using blighthaulers in lists. What are you using as proxies?


I don't want to buy the model (I love the drones but I am bored by the same concept on ground) so I will try to build some biomechanic monstrosity using a bloat thrall from Cryx. Still unsure about the legs and size.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 21:54:31


Post by: killerpenguin


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I see a lot of people mentioning using blighthaulers in lists. What are you using as proxies?



I just use a helbrute with melta and missile launcher.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 21:58:07


Post by: Captain Garius


Inexorable advance.

As to Poxwalkers vs Cultists two things. First I have 40 poxwalkers and no cultists. Second I build my list in such a way that if they are needed I can use the poxwalkers as anti horde. Granted in my meta I play against a lot of Nids and Orks... but I have had my poxwalkers do a lot of great work in all of my games, and that was before we could buff them as much as we can now.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 21:59:25


Post by: Qlanth


nvm this was answered earlier.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/12 23:20:02


Post by: killerpenguin


Hi guys! I thought i'd leave some of my thoughts on my last game against harlaquins.
This is the list i played.
Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [109 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Deathshroud Terminators [11 PL, 225pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlets
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlets

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

Plague Surgeon [4 PL, 65pts]: Balesword

Tallyman [4 PL, 67pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Myphitic Blight-haulers [7 PL, 142pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta

Plague Drones [6 PL, 102pts]: 2x Plague Drone, Plaguebringer

Plague Drones [6 PL, 102pts]: 2x Plague Drone, Plaguebringer

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Total: [109 PL, 2000pts] ++


The synergy between Myphitic Blight-hauler, typhus, surgeon, tallyman, poxwalkers and cultists is just insane if you use cloud of flies and the dead walk again stratagems. putrucent vitality is also great as well, but its not a must. i was practically unkillable. The foul blightspawn is also a must against CC armies like harlaquins. The army was slow as balls, but my enemy came to me, so problem solved. It was a crushing victory, he should have made me come to him.

The Crawlers were pretty mediocre. and the drones got focused hard.

The psychic powers are awesome espesially the curse of the leper against those T:3 harlequins.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/13 18:52:42


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Gonna throw up my third attempt for any critique. Still in the acquisition stage.

2k Semi-Competitive Death Guard
Spoiler:

HQ:
Sorcerer
Force Axe & Plasma Pistol, Warptime/Prescience
[113]

Malefic Lord
Warp Flux, Creeping Terror
[30]

Malefic Lord
Warp Flux, Creeping Terror
[30]

Lord of War:
Mortarion
[470]

[643]

HQ:
Typhus
[175]

Daemon Prince
Wings, Twin Claws, Suppurating Plate
[180]

Elites:
Noxious Blightbringer
Plasma Pistol, Bell
[70]

Foul Blightspawn
[77]

Troops:
(20) Poxwalkers
[120]

(20) Cultists
Autoguns, 2x Heavy Stubber
[88]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Blight Launchers, Plasma Gun
[174]

Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat Drone
Spitters, Probe
[158]

Foetid Bloat Drone
Spitters, Probe
[158]

Heavy:
Plagueburst Crawler
Mortar, 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
[156]

[1356]

[1999]

Trying to be modestly competitive without being boring.


Thoughts?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/13 22:28:09


Post by: killerpenguin


Is the plaguebringer worth it? I run a brigade, so i have enough CP to spend one on it, but I'm not sure if its worth it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 11:44:18


Post by: broxus


Wanted to share a tactic I have been using often. It works at all points levels, but especially if you play smaller games without Mortarian.

I always have a bloat drone and daemon prince in my list and fly them directly towards my enemy. I always keep the drone slightly ahead with miasma making it harder to hit. People can’t target the prince since he is a character. Once I get closer to my enemy’s lines I deepstrike in my blightlords and Typhus behind my drone. I use “cloud of flies” on the blightlords. Now I suddenly have 5 killy units in my opponents face and he can’t shoot at any of them except for the bloat drone. The bloat drone with miasma is very durable and can soak up insane amounts of fire. Usually it never dies in a single turn to shooting.

This works well because of how fast the daemon prince and bloat drone are. The plague spitter drone version is ideal, because it is an assault weapon and can be 9” away continually melting units. If required the drone can then charge to tie up your opponents shooting units. They are just so tactically flexible.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 11:57:42


Post by: darthryan


Personaly i love running my plaguespitter drones straight into the middle of the enemy units. Jump them over the front line of troops and just park in amongst the enemy lines. Dont charge anything just sit and shoot. Then your oppenent has to either ignore them and take tons of damage or deal with them. If they shoot them it takes a lot of shooting to down one and when it dies just make it explode to deal mortal wounds to their gunline. Or if they charge then they have to weather all that auto hitting overwatch and if they kill it it goes boom, of they dont kill it just fall back and keep shooting.

I have taken out girlyman and his gunline buddies using this tactic with 3 drones


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 12:54:39


Post by: killerpenguin


darthryan wrote:
Personaly i love running my plaguespitter drones straight into the middle of the enemy units. Jump them over the front line of troops and just park in amongst the enemy lines. Dont charge anything just sit and shoot. Then your oppenent has to either ignore them and take tons of damage or deal with them. If they shoot them it takes a lot of shooting to down one and when it dies just make it explode to deal mortal wounds to their gunline. Or if they charge then they have to weather all that auto hitting overwatch and if they kill it it goes boom, of they dont kill it just fall back and keep shooting.

I have taken out girlyman and his gunline buddies using this tactic with 3 drones


Wow, nice. Didn't think of using that strategem on the drones.

In my case, the drones are always a target, so i might as well drive them in kamikaze style.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 20:32:52


Post by: broxus


darthryan wrote:
Personaly i love running my plaguespitter drones straight into the middle of the enemy units. Jump them over the front line of troops and just park in amongst the enemy lines. Dont charge anything just sit and shoot. Then your oppenent has to either ignore them and take tons of damage or deal with them. If they shoot them it takes a lot of shooting to down one and when it dies just make it explode to deal mortal wounds to their gunline. Or if they charge then they have to weather all that auto hitting overwatch and if they kill it it goes boom, of they dont kill it just fall back and keep shooting.

I have taken out girlyman and his gunline buddies using this tactic with 3 drones


You should charge them into combat if you can (depending on if enemy unit is snooty). The reason be she got can force them to fall back and lose their shooting during their turn. In addition, since you fly you can always leave a combat you don’t want to be in and still shoot at whatever you want. Bloat drones are just amazing.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 22:41:10


Post by: plagueknight


I've recently got a death Guard Contemptor from Forgeworld which I plan on converting up for my Death Guard force, any suggestions on what to arm it with??? I was planning on running either Butcher Cannon and Chainclaw or Ectoplasma Cannon and Chainclaw with Ectoplasm Blaster as both loadouts cost the same though which would be the better loadouts????? Shame Chaos Contemptors can't have twin Lascannons as I would easily take 3 in every game


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 22:52:18


Post by: Captain Garius


I have tried the Chaos Contemptors with a chain claw and regular claw, Soulburners under each and they have worked well for me. I like the extra mortal wounds.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/14 23:09:43


Post by: ZergSmasher


On a modeling note, is it really hard to convert one of the plastic Contemptors from BaC into a Chaos one? I guess I'd still need to do something about the good weapons, though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/16 15:06:20


Post by: Bach


Hi everyone,

Would like some advice on my list for the So Cal Open (ITC event). I've done a lot of playing and have nailed down two lists where the difference is between taking a plaguespitter drone or a larger special weapons plague marine squad with a rhino.

Here are the lists so you know the other things I am taking:

1st list -

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [54 PL, 944pts] ++

+ HQ [10 PL, 163pts] +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: Plasma pistol [7pts], Power sword [4pts]

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 78pts]: Bolt pistol, Power maul [4pts]

+ Troops [22 PL, 335pts] +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 95pts]: 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [76pts]
. Plague Champion [19pts]: Boltgun, Plague knife

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts]

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts]

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Poxwalker [60pts]

+ Fast Attack [8 PL, 158pts] +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters [34pts], Plague probe [25pts]

+ Heavy Support [14 PL, 288pts] +

Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought [14 PL, 288pts]: Butcher cannon array [80pts], Greater havoc launcher [21pts], Hellfire veil [35pts], Twin heavy bolter [17pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [31 PL, 582pts] ++

+ HQ [7 PL, 120pts] +

Necrosius the Undying [7 PL, 120pts]: Curse of the Leper, Plague Wind

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 462pts] +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [40pts], Heavy Slugger [6pts]

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [40pts], Heavy Slugger [6pts]

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 150pts]: 2x Plaguespitter [34pts], Heavy Slugger [6pts]

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War [24 PL, 470pts] +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, 1996pts] ++


2nd list -

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [53 PL, 947pts] ++

+ HQ [10 PL, 163pts] +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: Plasma pistol [7pts], Power sword [4pts]

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 78pts]: Bolt pistol, Power maul [4pts]

+ Troops [25 PL, 424pts] +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 184pts]
. Plague Champion [44pts]: Plague knife, Plasma gun [13pts], Power fist [12pts]
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [76pts]
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon [32pts]: Plasma gun [13pts]
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon [32pts]: Plasma gun [13pts]

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts]

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts]

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 60pts]: 10x Poxwalker [60pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [4 PL, 72pts] +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter [2pts]

+ Heavy Support [14 PL, 288pts] +

Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought [14 PL, 288pts]: Butcher cannon array [80pts], Greater havoc launcher [21pts], Hellfire veil [35pts], Twin heavy bolter [17pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [31 PL, 582pts] ++

+ HQ [7 PL, 120pts] +

Necrosius the Undying [7 PL, 120pts]: Curse of the Leper, Plague Wind

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 462pts] +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [40pts], Heavy Slugger [6pts]

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 156pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [40pts], Heavy Slugger [6pts]

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 150pts]: 2x Plaguespitter [34pts], Heavy Slugger [6pts]

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War [24 PL, 470pts] +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]

++ Total: [108 PL, 1999pts] ++

Basically it comes down to having a better chance to have an ob sec troop, with some shooting, make it to a mid field objective with a rhino versus footslogging a min squad up the field but taking the plaguespitter drone to compensate. I could also move the deredeo with the min squad so they get the 5++, giving them some protection.

Recommendations?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/16 20:53:51


Post by: Emicrania


Is this legal?

Death guard Battalion

Daemon Prince, wings, talons, plate relic.
Daemon Prince, wings, axe


7 Plague Marines, 2 plasmas, sword-champ
7 Plague marines, 2 plasmas, sword-champ
7 Plague marines, 2 melta, sword-champ

20 poxwalkers

Biologus
Hellbrute, T-las, fist
Hellbrute, T-las, fist


Death Guard Battalion (looses inexorable advance and plague host, obj sec)
Sorcerer and Maulers are be taken from codex Chaos space marines, nurglings from DG codex.
All share the "Chaos" keyword

Sorcerer, mark of nurgle, forcestave Warptime, prescience

3 Nurglings (DG codex points) 54
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings


Maulerfiend, 2 fists, 2 magma cutters (CSM codex points)
Maulerfiends, 2 fists, 2 lascher tendrils


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/17 01:36:24


Post by: Nightlord1987


Well, your second detachment wouldn't be a "Death Guard" Battalion, but It doesn't matter. Its one Death Guard Detachment and one Chaos Detachment.

Legal. Seems like a fun list. The maulers should take some heat off those Helbrutes. I never have luck with Melta guns on Plague marines.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/17 01:46:47


Post by: COLD CASH


So saw in a thread some one was using a triple foulspawn and 1x putrid combo in a rhino! and i have to admit that "unit" sounds pretty crazy.

I'm imagining a vanguard detach with 3 foul and 1 spawn.

You get alot of the power of the larger marine blob but faster!

523 points:
3x foul
1x putrid plaguebringer
6x marines powerfist and 2 flails.
1x rhino combi bolter

6d6 deaths head grenades str 3
1d6 hyper blight str 4 6+ stack mortal wounds
6d6 blight grenades str 4 and w 2 (blight bombardment)

Votlw +1 to all wound rolls
putrid has the 6+ mortal wounds to stack damage on top of his hyperblights 6+ stacking as well.
Reroll 1's

That is a heck of a lot of wounds and mortal wounds for a squad in 1 rhino!!!! and its quick!

also added bonus i imagine you can probably wipe a unit with nades and a charge, and if they charge you(foulspawn so it would be a bad idea), you can activate votlw and blight bombard again for:
9d6 blight nades and 1d6 hyperblights. again with all the goodies!!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/17 11:26:23


Post by: killerpenguin


They can fit in a rhino together, butI’m pretty sure they can’t form a unit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/17 19:11:50


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


Anyone have any luck running an Assault heavy DG list? I really love the look of Deathshrouds, LoC, Typhus, and poxwalkers and kinda wanted to play a wall of melee death type list with some range support from PBC. Anyone else given it ago?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/17 23:51:44


Post by: Dr. Temujin


 ZergSmasher wrote:
On a modeling note, is it really hard to convert one of the plastic Contemptors from BaC into a Chaos one? I guess I'd still need to do something about the good weapons, though.


That depends on your greenstuff-fu, methinks. Can you sculpt boils or blobs of flesh spilling out of the dreadnought chassis, indicating that it's more flesh than machine? If not, you can always get Death Guard or Nurgle bits and symbols, and glue them all over. Weapons can always be painted as heavily rusted.

Haven't done these myself, just throwing out some ideas.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/18 02:05:15


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


 ZergSmasher wrote:
On a modeling note, is it really hard to convert one of the plastic Contemptors from BaC into a Chaos one? I guess I'd still need to do something about the good weapons, though.

My friend can't model or green stuff to save his life. What he ended up doing was attaching Nurglings all over it and painting it all rusted and grimy. Looks pretty good and I'll probably steal his idea.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/18 13:36:38


Post by: gwarsh41


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Anyone have any luck running an Assault heavy DG list? I really love the look of Deathshrouds, LoC, Typhus, and poxwalkers and kinda wanted to play a wall of melee death type list with some range support from PBC. Anyone else given it ago?


I've ran a 2500pt list that is pretty punchy twice now with some good results. Once in a 3 player free for all with kill points, more recently in maelstorm. The list is as follows.

Typhus
DP: wings, talons
3x Poxwalkers (14, 14, 10)
2x 5 Blightlord terminators: axes/melta 1 with flail
3 deathshroud: extra plaguespitter
3 spitter drones
Plagueburst crawler: entropy cannon, slugger
Mortarion

You get 2 assault fronts with the list. The first is Morty, DP and 3 plague spitters, all moving up the field quickly. Creating a nice high priority threat. Then you have the 2 blightlords and typhus dropping nearby with a buttload of melta spam and some nasty CC to worry about. I drop the blightlords in a conga line so 1 is within 3" of morty, and then the rest conga towards the enemy. Poxwalkers spread out to deny the enemy any back field deep strikes, forcing them into the mid field with your big fast chunk of death. Plagueburst pops shots at stuff and is a general annoyance. I love when it gets shot at, for it's points it is a great fire magnet.

I don't know about how meta competitive the list is, as I don't like tournaments, but its been super fun to have so many crazy durable models on the table that can bring serious pain. In the future I'll be trying more lists without mortarion, and more plague marines to see how well they do.