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Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/18 18:24:38


Post by: Captain Garius


Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Anyone have any luck running an Assault heavy DG list? I really love the look of Deathshrouds, LoC, Typhus, and poxwalkers and kinda wanted to play a wall of melee death type list with some range support from PBC. Anyone else given it ago?


I do run assault heavy myself. At 2k I run 40 Poxwalkers and 20 Plague Marines (2 Blight Launchers, 2 Flails, 6 axes, the rest dual knives), and then I supplement that with characters, a Daemon Prince/Bloat Drone squadron and play aggressively. So far it does well, but super shooty armies can be an issue. Next time my buddy and I get together I am going to have him run his Tau against me, and I have yet to go against guard, but everything else I have fought I haven't been outclassed by the list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/18 18:36:19


Post by: Mr.Pengwinn


 gwarsh41 wrote:

I've ran a 2500pt list that is pretty punchy twice now with some good results. Once in a 3 player free for all with kill points, more recently in maelstorm. The list is as follows.

Typhus
DP: wings, talons
3x Poxwalkers (14, 14, 10)
2x 5 Blightlord terminators: axes/melta 1 with flail
3 deathshroud: extra plaguespitter
3 spitter drones
Plagueburst crawler: entropy cannon, slugger
Mortarion

You get 2 assault fronts with the list. The first is Morty, DP and 3 plague spitters, all moving up the field quickly. Creating a nice high priority threat. Then you have the 2 blightlords and typhus dropping nearby with a buttload of melta spam and some nasty CC to worry about. I drop the blightlords in a conga line so 1 is within 3" of morty, and then the rest conga towards the enemy. Poxwalkers spread out to deny the enemy any back field deep strikes, forcing them into the mid field with your big fast chunk of death. Plagueburst pops shots at stuff and is a general annoyance. I love when it gets shot at, for it's points it is a great fire magnet.

I don't know about how meta competitive the list is, as I don't like tournaments, but its been super fun to have so many crazy durable models on the table that can bring serious pain. In the future I'll be trying more lists without mortarion, and more plague marines to see how well they do.

I like it! I've been lookin for an assault list with some meat on their bones. I'd probably drop Morty as my local meta isnt too competitive. How have the Deathshrourd worked for you? I've heard a lot of mixed reports.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/18 20:46:05


Post by: gwarsh41


This was the first game they got into close combat for me, and I've ran them 3 times.

The first time was open war, strange deployment prevented a deepstrike pretty much everywhere, but I wasn't thinking about that. They were not close to any characters and were taken out by lascannons.
Second game was a big 2500pt 3 way free for all. Dropped them next to morty and they died so mortarion could live. Soaking up an insane amount of firepower.
Both third and second used the same list I wrote. The third time I dropped them in range of morty, one died from soaking up 2 stormravens worth of shooting (morty was -1 to be hit and both flyers were weakened, still was awesome) and then they moved up the field and obliterated whatever they touched. Cleaving a razorback in two, then cutting mephiston in half. I completely forgot about the stratagem to bring one back!

Their unusually high point cost is justified by them all having basically plague weapon power fists (S8, -3, D3) and 10 attacks for a unit of 3. The flamers were ok, but I only got to use them on overwatch. Still makes people sweat a little!

If I ran a similar list at 2K, I would probably drop morty and the deathshroud. I absolutely love the deathshroud models, but they are pretty pricy when blightlords are just as durable. I want to cram a unit of 3 in a land raider with an arch contaminator chaos lord in terminator armor. Letting the blightlords re-roll 1s to hit and all wounds with their scythes and spitters.

The ++4 save that DG terminators have goes a very long way.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/18 23:40:26


Post by: Kzraahk


Hey guys, I've been thinking about running something like this
Opinions, criticism and ideas are always welcome!

HQ:
Chaos Lord (PBC re-rolls)
DP w/ wings, talons and plate
Plaguecaster

Elites:
Foul Blightspawn (Love this dude, but still not really sure how to run him on this list)

Troops:
4x 5 PM w/ 2 Blight Launchers and Plasma Champion
14 Poxwalkers

FA:
2x Drone w/Plaguespitters
Blight Hauler (Mainly for the cover aura since I don't have a lot of bubblewrap)

HS:
3x PBC w/Entropy Cannons

Total: 1995pts

Does it stand a chance? Should I take out a PM unit to get more Poxwalkers? or get rid of them and get more PMs?
Also, can't really decide on a warlord trait


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 03:24:46


Post by: duWhee


If the point of your Poxwalkers is just bubble wrap, I think Chaos Cultists could do the job cheaper, AND shot back. Just deploy them in MSUs. More Plague Marines might support your plan of attack better, except that I am not too sure of your plan of attack. I am assuming that your Chaos Lord is your Warlord with WT Arch Contaminator. If not, I’d skip the Lord.

I would skip the Hauler if its main purpose is +1 cover save. Regular save + DR is plenty. Use the hauler points for a 3rd Bloat Drone. It’s attack, disruption and distraction value can not be over stated. Always advance with them, get into the backfield and harrass the enemy. Let them charge you and eat auto hitting overwatch.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 17:45:46


Post by: Kzraahk


The hauler gives gives the Walkers a save (and all the other close units for that matter) and let's not forget it has a missile launcher and a multi-melta (at 4+ tho). I'll have to try out a list with it or replacing it with a third drone

My idea would be sticking the 3 PBC with the Lord in the back, shooting and re-rolling to hit
The drones and the Prince getting fast to the enemy lines to wreck stuff
The PM squads going wherever needed with the Blightspawn and the Caster for buffs/smite


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 17:46:39


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Reading and stuff. Ignore me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 19:01:30


Post by: gwarsh41


So with how durable DG terminators are, I'm considering a list that is all termies, and then uses R&H to get a grip of artillery that doesn't need line of sight. Something like.

3 earthshakers, 3 quad lauchers, 2 malefic lords
CSM jump sorcerer (warp time and speed for morty)
Mortarion
2x3 deathshroud
2x5 blightlords
TDA lord with helm and arch contaminator
Typhus

Typhus, TDA lord and the blightlords all plop down on a flank. 1 deathshroud drops near morty, the other drops where I want to warp time him to.
Lord will give re-roll 1s to hit, and all wounds in the fight phase to the blightlords. I'm tempted to give him plaguebringer instead, Have typhus cast blades of putrification on him and watch him cause mortal wounds on 5s and 2 mortal wounds on 6s.

With the lord support, and the 18" range, plasma is a very appealing choice for the blightlords.

It's pretty low on CP for a 2500pt list, but it has a lot of punch and durability.


Also, the codex death guard sorcerers cannot use the CSM spells, but if I remember right, GW said you can use index stuff as well. So I could bring an index Sorcerer with the death guard legion and have warp time on him? If that is the case, I could have a lot of fun with casting Diabolic strength on a flail wielding Blightlord. S8 with 3D3 attacks is pretty awesome.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 19:59:45


Post by: Qlanth


I took the Plagueburst Crawler out for a spin this weekend and I was not impressed. The BS is way too low to make that thing effective. Even parking an HQ to give re-rolling 1s it still misses way too much. Should have spent the points on another Helbrute.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 20:20:32


Post by: Vortenger


@Gwarsh, the only Index Sorcerer that didn't get an update is the Sorcerer on Palanquin, so that narrows the available options. You have to use the updated datasheet from the DG 'dex otherwise. You could use a Daemon Prince instead of a Daemon Prince of Nurgle for the same reason. Only two DG Dark Hereticus native units available to us, sadly.

@Kzraahk, I'd suggest spending a few extra points to turn that hauler into a Dorito Dread. Better shooting with more army synergistic weapons, full use of IA for accuracy on the move, and giving your infantry a 5+ Invuln. save which is way better than a Hauler for boosting Poxies (arguably PM's as well).

I'm coming to believe this little hellbrute may just be out and out better for DG than our own Hauler, albeit more expensive. With the exception of terminators do we have any units that gain more from cover than from gaining an invuln. save?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 21:26:34


Post by: gwarsh41


Thanks @Vortenger, that clears things up pretty well for me. Double checking codex, Palanquin and jump sorcerer are the two that didn't make it into the codex, right?

If the jump sorcerer can still be taken, that is pretty nice. Let's me deep strike him alongside terminators, or run alongside mortarion.

As for the dodereio dread, I didn't even think about it being a helbrute model so it gains the bonus. Same goes for Leviathans and contemptors if I remember correctly. This is awesome news!



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/19 21:58:22


Post by: ZergSmasher


 Dr. Temujin wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
On a modeling note, is it really hard to convert one of the plastic Contemptors from BaC into a Chaos one? I guess I'd still need to do something about the good weapons, though.


That depends on your greenstuff-fu, methinks. Can you sculpt boils or blobs of flesh spilling out of the dreadnought chassis, indicating that it's more flesh than machine? If not, you can always get Death Guard or Nurgle bits and symbols, and glue them all over. Weapons can always be painted as heavily rusted.

Haven't done these myself, just throwing out some ideas.

I'm not great at sculpting, but I think I could put some Nurgle symbols and rust on the weapons okay. I'm not sure that the Kheres Assault Cannon or Multimelta are good choices, though, and they are the only guns in the plastic kit. On the CC side, it only has the one option I think (Fist with Storm Bolter), so again probably not optimal, meaning I should probably skip it until I can afford a real FW Contemptor.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/20 15:29:49


Post by: killerpenguin


Would you guys call the new Death Guard codex competitive on its own? And if you have to ally with CSM, can you win tournaments with the two?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/20 16:58:40


Post by: gwarsh41


 killerpenguin wrote:
Would you guys call the new Death Guard codex competitive on its own? And if you have to ally with CSM, can you win tournaments with the two?


I think so, but we are still missing what looks like a very useful model in the blighthauler. If you ally in CSM you can grab the CSM powers and oblits, bring a detachment of CSM and you get all their stratagems. I think if you want DG to be max competitive, you ally in some CSM.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/21 05:21:36


Post by: devk88


 killerpenguin wrote:
Would you guys call the new Death Guard codex competitive on its own? And if you have to ally with CSM, can you win tournaments with the two?


I find mobility always an issue in the tournament scene. Playing to the objectives requires us to be quite all over the map which can be quite tricky. And most of the list building I have seen vs tournament lists make you choose between a footslogging horde one or a more vehicle shooty one. The meta tends to be mostly preparing yourself for multi wound fast armies that grab objectives quick and bear down quite well. I dunno, seems to me a pure DG list is hard to make it work especially when running morty. You would have to run him safely up a flank and hope he doesnt get shot down or pounced on (seen him die turn 1 against astra M. and adeptus M. a crap ton already). Not to mention if we choose a more shooty army and we face a REAL gunline like girlyman + co... we last awhile (thanks DR) but lose the gunline war.

I don't think screens are an issue at all for us. We tear through them and helps us add to our own momentum most of the time so least we got that going for us haha

Realistically most of the lists that perform well are the chaos soup ones. I feel like a new favourite soon will be the BASH brothers list. Magnus + Morty supported with brimstones, a changeling, and a CRAP ton of malefic lords. The smite spam is real. And it is strong. The list itself is pretty cheesy and not that fun to play against unless you fight with your own soup army like the CSM list Nick Nanavati brings or Andrew Gonyo's AM. Lots of ITC tournament missions are changing and we will see how this shakes up the meta though. Not to mention who knows what tournament scenes might do about CERTAIN strong units.

A new list I think that would be nice to see is really abusing a patrol detachment with CSM Alpha legion. The fact that a large unit of Chaos cultists can abuse Forward Operatives with Tide of Traitors and be in your opponents lines the whole game. Unless your opponents waste a bunch of resources killing the whole unit... it will come FULLY back in their face again next turn. Not to mention having a sorcerer with Warptime and Deathhex (remove that invuln from those pesky Bulgryn and brimstones) will really make Morty a big threat. Ally this to a DG army would really help you move your expensive plague marines / characters / DG vehicles up the board fairly easily while they deal with the cultists in their frontlines (or back lines if you give you the space )

At the end of the day, bring whatever you want to the tournament and have fun. But if you want to beat the cheese well prepare yourself for a less fluffy list that is also cheesy as hell. DG is strong but yeah I think CSM detachment to help out in some areas really makes the DG army shine.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/21 17:25:05


Post by: sennacherib


Qlanth wrote:
I took the Plagueburst Crawler out for a spin this weekend and I was not impressed. The BS is way too low to make that thing effective. Even parking an HQ to give re-rolling 1s it still misses way too much. Should have spent the points on another Helbrute.


Pair it up with a lord with arch contaminator and you have a unit that reroll 1’s to hit and rerolls all to wound rolls. Point efficiency wise it does as much damage as a predator with las cannons and it’s a lot tougher and harder to kill than a land raider. Seriously.


It takes 11.9 las Cannon hits to kill a crawler compared to 8.3 to kill the raider.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/21 18:03:02


Post by: Latro_


First time rocking the new DG codex.

wow used bio-put and 10 plague marines with grenades last night! 39 shots ended in 7 mortal wounds and lots of death! amazing.

The other surprising strat is the auto blow up! opponent killed my defiler in combat thats a lot of mortal wounds within 6"!

not to impressed with blight haulers... i ran 2 should of run 3 for the +1 bs but they just seem so expensive for what they are... i'm thinking preds might be better.

Also rocked my DP with 4+ DR, 2+ armour relic and axe and talon! wow.... chopped a storm raven out the sky and soaked up so many shots! loving it.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/21 20:31:31


Post by: Belsibub


So I was wondering about blightlords, What unit size and loadout is optimal?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/21 21:05:16


Post by: Vortenger


Seems to be a basic 5 man squad with axes, maybe a flail, and as much combi plasma or melta as you can afford.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/21 21:06:04


Post by: killerpenguin


wrong post...



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/22 02:15:47


Post by: Captain Garius


 killerpenguin wrote:
Would you guys call the new Death Guard codex competitive on its own? And if you have to ally with CSM, can you win tournaments with the two?


As Devk88 said I think adding in a CSM detachment of Alpha Legion is the way to go. I am testing this out now to add the Stratagems into my army and it isn't too unfluffy if you care about such things. I am not super hip on the Meta, but my approach has been similar to how I used to run my Space Marines Competitively: Build a hybrid list and then play to your opponents weakness. So I like having the gunline aspect backed up by the ability to pressure with hordes or fast moving melee units. I haven't been privileged enough to play with my normal friends to have them bring super hard Ultramarine or IG lists yet, but I think with a mix of Poxwalkers, Bloat Drones, Shooty Plague Marines, and Plagueburst Crawlers you can leverage stuff to help you out of a tough fight. For now though I defer to the more experienced people in this thread as to the viability of the Codex.

Blight Haulers don't sound useful enough to me. They are useless on Poxwalkers, and the cost of them (especially considering their weapons hit on 5's most of the time unless you bring 3) doesn't seem worth the 17% increase they give to the durability of Plague Marines. I almost feel like being able to change the weapons to cheaper stuff, like Heavy Bolters and their equivalents, would make them good. Even better if you could throw more auto hit weapons on them since they want to get close to your enemy. As they are I think we have too many other units that are better to make taking them anything more than a gimmick or fluff choice.

I run my Blightlords in 5 man teams. 4 Combi-plasmas, 4 Bubotic Axes, and 1 Flail. I typically prefer not having a Lord drop with them, and instead Warptime my DP into range of them while Running my Poxwalker hordes and Plague Marines up to meet them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/23 06:55:38


Post by: Latro_


they dont hit on 5's as then can mov and not suffer -1 bs but yea i'm thinking they aint great... 100pts maybe


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 01:09:26


Post by: Captain Garius


The blight haulers have a special rule that lets them move and not suffer a penalty to hit? Well that would make them better for sure.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 09:07:49


Post by: killerpenguin


I thought I’d try out malefic lords for the first time today. Have you guys tried them?

Here’s the list if you’re interested.

Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Fugaris' Helm

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence

Typhus: Curse of the Leper, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Bolt pistol, Plague knife
. 5x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers: 11x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier: Plague knife

Deathshroud Terminators
. Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlets
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlets

Foul Blightspawn

Noxious Blightbringer: Dolorous Knell, Plasma pistol

Tallyman: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Renegade & Heretics) ++

+ HQ +

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 13:22:09


Post by: Dew


Are there any death guard lists that people run that don't use a butt ton of pox and cultists?
Seems like so many DG lists I see here have minimum actual DG... Haha. Not many Plaugue marines at all


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 13:24:17


Post by: killerpenguin


Dew wrote:
Are there any death guard lists that people run that don't use a butt ton of pox and cultists?
Seems like so many DG lists I see here have minimum actual DG... Haha. Not many Plaugue marines at all


PMs are honestly too overpriced, try to compare them to for berzerkers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 13:26:22


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Dew wrote:
Are there any death guard lists that people run that don't use a butt ton of pox and cultists?
Seems like so many DG lists I see here have minimum actual DG... Haha. Not many Plaugue marines at all


Welcome to the competitive DG lists. Pox & Cultists galore, yet almost no PMs. Maybe a 5-man squad with Plasma just because, though even that seems less favorable.

PM are so expensive. So are their transports, which are pretty useful if you aren't slogging with a screen. We require a lot of support characters too. It just winds up being tough to make a competitively viable list that [i]feels[/] like a Death Guard army.

Now, if you are going for fun, then go for what is fun. Won't matter much in a casual environment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 13:59:46


Post by: Dew


I see, that makes sense I suppose.
I'm coming over from Necrons though so EVERYTHING seems cheap to me lol.
Trying to build up a list based off the Dark Imperium set and I love the actual PM and DG models so I'm just looking around at lists feeling like I'm going to have to buy and paint as assload of cultists/pox now.
The PM models are just too rad not to use! But then again I'm not a tourny player.
So if I try and avoid a pox/cultist horde I'm definitely going to need some transports then


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 15:06:57


Post by: gwarsh41


Dew wrote:
Are there any death guard lists that people run that don't use a butt ton of pox and cultists?
Seems like so many DG lists I see here have minimum actual DG... Haha. Not many Plaugue marines at all


I have been running a TDA heavy force and really enjoying it. It's got 3 units of 10-15 poxwalkers though. I've got one more rhino to build before I run plague marines everywhere. The durability of our TDA is very satisfying, but all the buffs and debuffs from an infantry heavy force are something I am looking forward to. Probably wont get a game in with them for a month or two. No time this week, then the following 3 month I'm out of town or busy on the select days I play. I'll post when I get around to it.

 killerpenguin wrote:
I thought I’d try out malefic lords for the first time today. Have you guys tried them?

Here’s the list if you’re interested.

Spoiler:
++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Fugaris' Helm

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence

Typhus: Curse of the Leper, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Bolt pistol, Plague knife
. 5x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers: 11x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier: Plague knife

Deathshroud Terminators
. Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlets
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlets

Foul Blightspawn

Noxious Blightbringer: Dolorous Knell, Plasma pistol

Tallyman: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn: Chaos Spawn

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Renegade & Heretics) ++

+ HQ +

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite

Malefic Lord: Smite


I havent run Malefic lords since the DG book came out, but I ran them a lot before codex started to drop. I had a few from last edition R&H, as well as a cabal (or whatever it was called) the R&H group psyker. I ran 3-5 in just about every list when it was index only. Opponents spoke up on how annoying and frustrating they were, so I stopped spamming them. They are terrifyingly good, especially if they perils. Awesome HQ when you just want to bring some nurglings along in a CHAOS detachment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 17:05:20


Post by: Dew


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Dew wrote:
Are there any death guard lists that people run that don't use a butt ton of pox and cultists?
Seems like so many DG lists I see here have minimum actual DG... Haha. Not many Plaugue marines at all


I have been running a TDA heavy force and really enjoying it. It's got 3 units of 10-15 poxwalkers though. I've got one more rhino to build before I run plague marines everywhere. The durability of our TDA is very satisfying, but all the buffs and debuffs from an infantry heavy force are something I am looking forward to. Probably wont get a game in with them for a month or two. No time this week, then the following 3 month I'm out of town or busy on the select days I play. I'll post when I get around to it.


Yeah I would be interested to see it.
I would like to build more of an infantry DG/armor list instead of just horde spam. Definitely getting a blightlord unit next. I have a small pool of Nurgle Daemons I'd like to sprinkle into that as well


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/24 21:22:17


Post by: Vortenger


Getting my Blightlords this weekend and I am torn between combi-plasma and combi-melta.

The plasma is a good all-round weapon and IA granting RF at 18" is significant. The termies can be dropped aggressively forward, back in cover defensively, or in cover hovering near the 18" mark and become an adamantium thorn in your enemy's side. The downsides are that plasma is already plentiful in our army with little reason not to hand it to every PM squad, Sorcerer, and Chaos Lord we have, as well as coming standard on some of our elites. At some point you reach a point of saturation and the returns diminish quickly. Also requires a lord if you want to supercharge, as those are some spendy Get's Hot losses.

Melta helps patch a gap in our arsenal: That of forward ranged AT. We have other AT, but it involves hanging way back or charging quickly in for the relative safety of melee. This also seems to be our only good method of DS'ing into the enemy backline for threatening parking lot armies between turns (Not everyone has mastered screening ). The downside being overall range and the combination of slow move speed and melta bonus range means you may not get the bonus damage after moving on turn 2. I feel like that round 2 bonus damage is needed to keep melta reliable enough to use. IA prevents the worst issue of melta: loss of accuracy on the move which is something these guys definitely need. Does not require babysitting for efficiency. Has to be deployed forward termicide style to be effective. Has the added benefit of diversifying your choice of targets, as our melee loadout is very anti-elite oriented compared to most other terminator configurations.

Which to choose? Is the answer those Anvil Industries combi's with swappable barrels?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/25 00:02:28


Post by: broxus


Melta every time with blightlords. Do you really want to lose a 60pt terminator by overheating? The melta allows you to also run and still shoot (something you must do a lot since they are so slow). We have so many other plasma options I can’t see why anyone would ever want to take it on blightlords. The other option is to put no melta/plasma on them and keep them cheap Combi-bolter close combat monsters for a minimum price.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/25 01:47:45


Post by: ZergSmasher


I'll most likely go with the cheap option if I get any Blightlords for my DG army. I do want some as I love the models, but they are already expensive for what they do. I would probably take a flail, but the rest would get either baleswords or bubotic axes and all of them would probably just get combi-bolters, keeping the squad cheap while they still pack some combat power. Of course getting into melee could be problematic due to the glacial movement speed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/25 16:36:12


Post by: gwarsh41


I feel like if I'm running plasma, I need a lord so I can justify overcharging with the re-rolls. I've ran plasma and melta, I feel like I rarely have good targets for plasma, but there are always good targets for melta.

Flail is 100% auto take for me. The ability for wounds to spill over is very, very nice. 2D3 attacks with it is awesome, and is great at slapping just about everything around.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/25 22:45:44


Post by: Pandabeer


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I feel like if I'm running plasma, I need a lord so I can justify overcharging with the re-rolls. I've ran plasma and melta, I feel like I rarely have good targets for plasma, but there are always good targets for melta.

Flail is 100% auto take for me. The ability for wounds to spill over is very, very nice. 2D3 attacks with it is awesome, and is great at slapping just about everything around.


Anything that is a good target for melta's is a good target for overcharged plasma, they're not that far apart in effectiveness when double-tapping plasma (Plasma has slightly higher raw average damage potential while melta has 1 better AP). The only circumstances where combimelta pull ahead significantly is when you stand closer than 6" away. Thing with plasma is that it's also amazing against heavy infantry, a perk that melta doesn't have. I find the 1/36th chance of losing a Terminator (with Lord) to be an acceptable risk for overcharging due to it's amazing versatility and the 18" double-tapping (this allows better positioning for deepstriking), but that's just me.

I guess I could also take plasmaguns on normal Plague Marines but you can't deepstrike those within rapid-fire range of that pesky Hellblaster squad or quadlas Predator turn 1 (I use my Blightlords as an alpha strike unit to kill high value stuff and draw fire away from Mortarion, something they were very effective at in my playtest game).

Flails are nice but in a squad of just 5 I feel they aren't worth taking. My local meta consists of mostly shooty armies and with Blightlords moving at a snails' pace I'm not expecting to ever charge anything. In a larger squad (7+) I'd probably take a flail as a charge deterrent, but that's it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/26 19:32:18


Post by: Vortenger


I've used my GK Paladins to proxy Blightlords so far, and the two make for good comparison, both being about 300 points with equipment. It also forms my bias about the DG termies writ large.

Spoiler:
I'd say the extra wound and psychic powers compare roughly to cataphractii armor, stratagem synergy, and DR.

Blightlords basic melee is sub-par compared to most termies. Most squads are weilding power fists, thunder hammers, or force weapons. While our plague weapons are mechanically cool, the damage per hit just isn't there. The flail is our great equalizer. Effective vs. characters, elites, monsters, and hordes it is really the only thing that makes Blightlords so threatening in combat. Without it, they really aren't close combat monsters at all. When the model I proxy has 4 -2ap d3 swings per model, I would like something to make me feel I'd rather not just be fielding that model for the same points.

Similarly, Combi-bolters don't impress me on Lords. If the goal was to keep them cheap, then any other Terminator brings the same firepower and accuracy for less cost, and CSM termies can leverage better use the weapon then we can even with extended rapid fire. What they don't have have is the utility provided by IA to those heavy hitting weapons we use. Having that added firepower lends more threat to the Lord's presence and forces the enemy to deal with our resilience if our melee alone doesn't cut muster.


Tl;Dr: I think the flail is mandatory and we need the plasma or melta to be properly threatening. Everyone has given solid arguments and I'm not any closer to deciding. I enjoy the exchange though!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/26 20:01:12


Post by: gwarsh41


I was just thinking about how we are limited to D1 weapons on Blightlords after I was looking at the deathshroud and thinking about their damage output.

The deathshroud are basically S8 -3 D3.
Powerfists are generally S8 -3 D3 (x2 S4 is average) with their only downside being -1 to hit.

So if we could take fists on blightlords, it might just make the deathshroud seem pathetic in comparison. They are already very expensive from eye of mortarion and silent bodyguard. If GW was to give us terminators that could do the same damage AND have combi weapons, deathgshroud would never sell.


As for the sad melee weapons we can take, I've been going with axes, but the -3 on the swords is pretty tempting. Which do you prefer?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/26 21:57:58


Post by: Pestilens


The problem with them is that they're overcosted, and they eill fall with concentrated fire power


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/26 22:10:02


Post by: killerpenguin


Best value we get from “elite” units imo is 5 PMs with 3 plasmas.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 00:27:19


Post by: Dew


I'm also curious in the axe/sword question.
The flail is sweet so I'm going to probably go 1 flail, 1 blightlauncher, and 3 combi-bolters? Unsure on the sword/axe


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 05:52:16


Post by: broxus


Pandabeer wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
I feel like if I'm running plasma, I need a lord so I can justify overcharging with the re-rolls. I've ran plasma and melta, I feel like I rarely have good targets for plasma, but there are always good targets for melta.

Flail is 100% auto take for me. The ability for wounds to spill over is very, very nice. 2D3 attacks with it is awesome, and is great at slapping just about everything around.


Anything that is a good target for melta's is a good target for overcharged plasma, they're not that far apart in effectiveness when double-tapping plasma (Plasma has slightly higher raw average damage potential while melta has 1 better AP). The only circumstances where combimelta pull ahead significantly is when you stand closer than 6" away. Thing with plasma is that it's also amazing against heavy infantry, a perk that melta doesn't have. I find the 1/36th chance of losing a Terminator (with Lord) to be an acceptable risk for overcharging due to it's amazing versatility and the 18" double-tapping (this allows better positioning for deepstriking), but that's just me.

I guess I could also take plasmaguns on normal Plague Marines but you can't deepstrike those within rapid-fire range of that pesky Hellblaster squad or quadlas Predator turn 1 (I use my Blightlords as an alpha strike unit to kill high value stuff and draw fire away from Mortarion, something they were very effective at in my playtest game).

Flails are nice but in a squad of just 5 I feel they aren't worth taking. My local meta consists of mostly shooty armies and with Blightlords moving at a snails' pace I'm not expecting to ever charge anything. In a larger squad (7+) I'd probably take a flail as a charge deterrent, but that's it.


Yes plasma is wonderful, but on terminators that cost 50+ points a model it is a terrible option. You don’t want to overcharge them and potentially lose one of your armies most resilient models/units. Stick with melta and you won’t run into this issue. The flail is an auto include and you should never leave home without it. It is amazing when you need to clear out hordes. I have had these guys chew through ork mobs with little to no effort. If you are just going to use these terminators as a gunlines unit just buy 2 units of PMs w/3 plasmas each instead.


Axes are amazing choices to take. Having strength 5 means you are usually hitting most infantry on 3s. If you cast blades of putrefaction on them (which I always do) then they are hitting on 2+ rerolling 1s. If you roll any 5s or 6s to wound your axe gains -3 AP. On a roll of 6 you do an additional mortal wound. If you use Veterans of the Long War it even gets better.









Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 13:54:48


Post by: gwarsh41


I'm also curious in the axe/sword question.
The flail is sweet so I'm going to probably go 1 flail, 1 blightlauncher, and 3 combi-bolters? Unsure on the sword/axe


To my surprise, the Blightlauncher on terminators is the exact same as blightlaunchers on plague marines. I figured it would be 3 or 4 shots instead of 2. I don't think it's worth bringing over a combi weapon. I like it on PM, as they might skirt move around objectives and not always be in 18" rapid fire, but terminators should always be able to pop off melta or rapid plasma shots.


Axes are amazing choices to take. Having strength 5 means you are usually hitting most infantry on 3s. If you cast blades of putrefaction on them (which I always do) then they are hitting on 2+ rerolling 1s. If you roll any 5s or 6s to wound your axe gains -3 AP. On a roll of 6 you do an additional mortal wound. If you use Veterans of the Long War it even gets better.



omg, I've always forgotten the aura of rust ability. I think that is a good sell for the axe. It's cheaper, and there is a chance to gain that extra AP.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 14:18:58


Post by: buddha


Thoughts on the plaugeburst crawler? Seems like a more survivable leman russ which is fine but in terms of damage output it seems like a las predator might be better.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 14:26:50


Post by: Kzraahk


It's cheaper than a Predator, though (Also gets Disgustingly Resilient)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 14:44:24


Post by: Vortenger


Axes are my go-to for all the reasons stated above. That I find they look thematically better on chaos than swords is a bonus.

PBC's are indeed a tougher Russ. Their damage output is less than a pred until a Lord is placed between them, then they come out a bit better. I believe the mathhammer was back 3-5 pages ago. For their points they have been phenomenal.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 15:01:21


Post by: Bremon


Blightlords with Melta are where it’s at I feel. Crawler seems preferable to a Las Pred. Not as consistentlyndeadly but far more difficult to shift.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/27 15:22:54


Post by: gwarsh41


I don't mind that the crawler has a D6 shots gun, and prefer it to the lascannon pred. It gives you a lot more flexibility at what you shoot at. I find myself firing it at small units like devs and bikes more than tanks. I'll be trying 3 of them with a lord pretty soon.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/28 12:26:18


Post by: broxus


I don’t know why people think a las-predator does more damage than a PBC. A PBC does even more damage against T8 units, is much much more survivable, and is significantly cheaper. It’s only disadvantage is that it has shorter range. Please visit http://www.mathhammer8thed.com to validate what I am saying on your own. Please don’t forget to add in the damage from the mortar, 2x enthropy guns, and the RoF 4 heavy bolter together.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/28 20:03:16


Post by: Pandabeer


broxus wrote:
Pandabeer wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
I feel like if I'm running plasma, I need a lord so I can justify overcharging with the re-rolls. I've ran plasma and melta, I feel like I rarely have good targets for plasma, but there are always good targets for melta.

Flail is 100% auto take for me. The ability for wounds to spill over is very, very nice. 2D3 attacks with it is awesome, and is great at slapping just about everything around.


Anything that is a good target for melta's is a good target for overcharged plasma, they're not that far apart in effectiveness when double-tapping plasma (Plasma has slightly higher raw average damage potential while melta has 1 better AP). The only circumstances where combimelta pull ahead significantly is when you stand closer than 6" away. Thing with plasma is that it's also amazing against heavy infantry, a perk that melta doesn't have. I find the 1/36th chance of losing a Terminator (with Lord) to be an acceptable risk for overcharging due to it's amazing versatility and the 18" double-tapping (this allows better positioning for deepstriking), but that's just me.

I guess I could also take plasmaguns on normal Plague Marines but you can't deepstrike those within rapid-fire range of that pesky Hellblaster squad or quadlas Predator turn 1 (I use my Blightlords as an alpha strike unit to kill high value stuff and draw fire away from Mortarion, something they were very effective at in my playtest game).

Flails are nice but in a squad of just 5 I feel they aren't worth taking. My local meta consists of mostly shooty armies and with Blightlords moving at a snails' pace I'm not expecting to ever charge anything. In a larger squad (7+) I'd probably take a flail as a charge deterrent, but that's it.


Yes plasma is wonderful, but on terminators that cost 50+ points a model it is a terrible option. You don’t want to overcharge them and potentially lose one of your armies most resilient models/units. Stick with melta and you won’t run into this issue. The flail is an auto include and you should never leave home without it. It is amazing when you need to clear out hordes. I have had these guys chew through ork mobs with little to no effort. If you are just going to use these terminators as a gunlines unit just buy 2 units of PMs w/3 plasmas each instead.



Depends. I find the added versatility of plasma worth the risk of a 1/36th chance per shot of losing a terminator, others will not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
I don’t know why people think a las-predator does more damage than a PBC. A PBC does even more damage against T8 units, is much much more survivable, and is significantly cheaper. It’s only disadvantage is that it has shorter range. Please visit http://www.mathhammer8thed.com to validate what I am saying on your own. Please don’t forget to add in the damage from the mortar, 2x enthropy guns, and the RoF 4 heavy bolter together.


Huh, you're right (T8 2+ save, so typical LR). Didn't expect that. Mortar is also better than I thought.

Edit: which means that besides having 12" shorter range on the Entropy Cannons and the Heavy Stubber the Crawler is flat-out better than the Predator Annihilator on all fronts. At least if it holds still.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/28 20:32:40


Post by: broxus


A PBC does more damage than even a 4x las-cannon predator. It almost puts out the same damage as a LR, is more survivable against most weapons, and costs half the points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/29 02:58:11


Post by: Luciferian


Can anyone tell me why I want a Malignant Plaguecaster over a DG Sorcerer, apart from the ability that causes mortal wounds on successful psychic powers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/29 03:14:32


Post by: ZergSmasher


 Luciferian wrote:
Can anyone tell me why I want a Malignant Plaguecaster over a DG Sorcerer, apart from the ability that causes mortal wounds on successful psychic powers?

T5 and Disgustingly Resilient, plus a kickass model.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/29 03:34:31


Post by: Zid


I know utilizing the CSM dex to supplement our DG with Warptime is a common tactic (especially if you use old morty).

I'm still building my army, but I'm thinking of supporting my army with Havoks, Obliterators, or maybe a Forgefiend (love the model). What other things do ya'll use outside the DG dex to support?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/29 05:53:15


Post by: Luciferian


 ZergSmasher wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Can anyone tell me why I want a Malignant Plaguecaster over a DG Sorcerer, apart from the ability that causes mortal wounds on successful psychic powers?

T5 and Disgustingly Resilient, plus a kickass model.


Good call, I forgot about DR. As for the model, I already chopped mine up

For the points difference it definitely does seem worthwhile to take the Plaguecaster, but I'm working on a list where I just can't afford him over the Sorcerer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/30 03:09:02


Post by: Nightlord1987


 Zid wrote:
I know utilizing the CSM dex to supplement our DG with Warptime is a common tactic (especially if you use old morty).

I'm still building my army, but I'm thinking of supporting my army with Havoks, Obliterators, or maybe a Forgefiend (love the model). What other things do ya'll use outside the DG dex to support?


Heldrakes. Infiltrating Alpha Legion Cultist blobs. Relic armor IW Prince, Slaaneshi Elixer Prince.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/30 18:57:33


Post by: Vortenger


Alpha Legion Sonic Dreadnoughts, Noise Marines and Slaaneshi Oblits. for moar raw damage to offset our own middling damage.

Night Lords Vangaurd detachment with a bunch of Raptors to stack silly high -Ld tactics for fun.

edit: Modeled up the Blightlords, left the gun arms off for now. Hope to get a test game with melta in later this week. (And a Pox-horde without goofing the rules)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/30 19:54:20


Post by: Pandabeer


 Zid wrote:
I know utilizing the CSM dex to supplement our DG with Warptime is a common tactic (especially if you use old morty).

I'm still building my army, but I'm thinking of supporting my army with Havoks, Obliterators, or maybe a Forgefiend (love the model). What other things do ya'll use outside the DG dex to support?


At the moment nothing because of fluff, except for the most dire of circumstances Traitor Legions seem to work on their own and frequently even attack each other. Pity about the Warptime and I'd love me some Obliterators and Havocs but eh. Maybe if I ever go to a Grand Tournament or something I might skimp on my self-imposed restrictions for the sake of being more competitive but for now I'm keeping it mono-Nurgle. I might dig a bit deeper into Nurgle Daemons eventually (also those outside the codex like GUO's or Soul Grinders) though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/30 21:00:10


Post by: gwarsh41


For me it's oblits and sorcerers. Don't see much need to take a DG sorcerer when I could take a plaguecaster or typhus who do it better (albeit for a bit more cost)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/30 23:04:51


Post by: Dew


Pandabeer wrote:
 Zid wrote:
I know utilizing the CSM dex to supplement our DG with Warptime is a common tactic (especially if you use old morty).

I'm still building my army, but I'm thinking of supporting my army with Havoks, Obliterators, or maybe a Forgefiend (love the model). What other things do ya'll use outside the DG dex to support?


At the moment nothing because of fluff, except for the most dire of circumstances Traitor Legions seem to work on their own and frequently even attack each other. Pity about the Warptime and I'd love me some Obliterators and Havocs but eh. Maybe if I ever go to a Grand Tournament or something I might skimp on my self-imposed restrictions for the sake of being more competitive but for now I'm keeping it mono-Nurgle. I might dig a bit deeper into Nurgle Daemons eventually (also those outside the codex like GUO's or Soul Grinders) though.


I'm building mine the same way. We're probably doing ourselves a great disservice by doing this but hey, ocd is off! Haha
I am very interested in building a nurgle daemon/DG combo list. Where allll nurgles children are at the party


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/10/31 00:40:37


Post by: Vortenger


 gwarsh41 wrote:
For me it's oblits and sorcerers. Don't see much need to take a DG sorcerer when I could take a plaguecaster or typhus who do it better (albeit for a bit more cost)


Aw, why not? Sorcerer on Palanquin is amazeballs! A DG Daemon packing Warptime and Prescience? What's not to love?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/01 14:24:32


Post by: Vaxx


So keeping in line with a strictly DG list how do you suggest to deal with flyer spam? As in 2 Stormravens and 1 Stormtalon. They can chew up both infantry and vehicles very fast.

A DP with wings helps but is there any other suggestions? The options on dealing with flyers seems weak.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/01 15:05:36


Post by: gwarsh41


Bloat drones with fleshmowers can deal some decent dmg, they are basically discount daemon princes. Aside from that you are probably looking at some FW goodies like a deredo dreadnought.
Plague drones can fly, but no ap on their weapons just isn't all that reliable.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/01 15:05:40


Post by: Aleister_Dakka


Foul Blightspawn's auto hits and variable damage can be pretty nice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/03 10:52:48


Post by: COLD CASH


My current non PM list has 3 crawlers, 2 FBD and morty so should be ok against flyers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/03 13:50:15


Post by: Aleister_Dakka


Isn't crawler a liability vs. fliers due to the 4+ BS? I guess the range is useful though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/05 06:58:54


Post by: broxus


Foul Bloughtspawns destroyes flyers, MCs, and vehicles. It may be worth trying to get 2-3 in a list. Since their weapons are assault and have 9” range they have a 15-20” threat range. If they hang out mid table they can burn down flyers easy. My single model has killed multiple Stormravens.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/05 23:12:27


Post by: sennacherib


What would you pair a foul blight spawn with? A rhino and 5 plague marines? Two blightspawn and 5 plague marines? Just wondering since my want a bit more firepower in my list and I am struggling to find a place for them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/05 23:56:28


Post by: broxus


I just leave mine wandering mid field with my plague marines. His ability to prevent chargers attacking first is also awesome.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/06 02:12:54


Post by: sennacherib


I run pox walkers but I usually have a five man pm squad in a land raider. I was thinking about adding 2 blightspawn to them so that capping objectives would be a thing.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/06 17:29:59


Post by: broxus


Land raiders are just so expensive. I personally don’t care for them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/06 19:30:21


Post by: Vaxx


Aleister_Dakka wrote:Isn't crawler a liability vs. fliers due to the 4+ BS? I guess the range is useful though.


This is exactly what I was thinking. Hitting on 5's even with a Lord re-roll does not seem effective.

broxus wrote:Foul Bloughtspawns destroyes flyers, MCs, and vehicles. It may be worth trying to get 2-3 in a list. Since their weapons are assault and have 9” range they have a 15-20” threat range. If they hang out mid table they can burn down flyers easy. My single model has killed multiple Stormravens.


I kind of see what you mean, I just have a hard time seeing it actually work in my games. It would be really easy for a Stormraven, or 2, avoid this unit and still be able to pick and choose targets. Or even focus the supporting units then turn on the character. With a 9 inch range I have a hard time seeing it effective. This happens to my Bloat Drones all the time. 2 Stormravens and a Stormtalon are tough to deal with.

I am kind of starting to see why DG is along the lines of a supplement army and not a stand alone. Dont get me wrong I love the new flavor of this army, but slim selection of flyers and heavy weapons seems to kind of box them in. I think I will forgo the full DG army and keep focusing on my Renegades + DG together. Not for strictly competitiveness, but to have some more flavor to list building.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/06 22:57:46


Post by: Kzraahk


I'm running a DP with 2 FBD and a Plaguecaster with 3x5 PM w/2 Blight Launchers each. Should I put Arch-Contaminator on the DP or the Caster?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/06 23:56:18


Post by: sennacherib


Kzraahk wrote:
I'm running a DP with 2 FBD and a Plaguecaster with 3x5 PM w/2 Blight Launchers each. Should I put Arch-Contaminator on the DP or the Caster?


I think the prince since he will likely be running up with the fbd. Also, give him supturating plate. Just my two cents.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/07 08:51:03


Post by: Pandabeer


 sennacherib wrote:
Kzraahk wrote:
I'm running a DP with 2 FBD and a Plaguecaster with 3x5 PM w/2 Blight Launchers each. Should I put Arch-Contaminator on the DP or the Caster?


I think the prince since he will likely be running up with the fbd. Also, give him supturating plate. Just my two cents.


Giving the Prince AC just because of the two Drones isn't worth it. In your list the Drones aren't meant to deal a lot of damage, their job is to get the Prince into assault at full wounds, be a Distraction Carnifex and tie up any high value shooty dudes of your opponent in melee. One of them is most likely going to get blown up while you advance up the board so that's just one Drone it's going to affect for more than 1 or 2 turns. If you play it smart you could get value out of putting it on your Plaguecaster but I'd go with a defensive Trait on your DP. Then take Miasma of Pestilence on him to get an infuriatingly hard to kill Prince. Or maybe even Living Plague, Suppurating Plate + Living Plague can dish out a significant amount of mortal wounds together.

And yes, Suppurating Plate on your DP is mandatory. Don't let Papa Nurgle catch him without it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/07 09:35:05


Post by: Pestilens


Is somebody using summoning daemons like plague drones in their list???


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/07 09:55:23


Post by: pismakron


Vaxx wrote:
So keeping in line with a strictly DG list how do you suggest to deal with flyer spam? As in 2 Stormravens and 1 Stormtalon. They can chew up both infantry and vehicles very fast.

A DP with wings helps but is there any other suggestions? The options on dealing with flyers seems weak.


Ignore the fliers and mop up his ground force while getting a hefty lead in VP's. That is the best solution 9 times out of 10.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/07 13:24:34


Post by: sennacherib


Pestilens wrote:
Is somebody using summoning daemons like plague drones in their list???


I have been using 20 plague bearers in my list
It lets me summon them on top of the relic Or a nearby objective. They are super hard to kill and provide bodies for pox walkers. Plus they reroll all wounds in melee.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/07 17:48:28


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


I really like the Tainted regeneration trait - so so good on an aggressive Warlord like the Demon Prince or a Lord of Contagion. It's like Necron living metal on crack - 1 wound on *each players* turn is amazing


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 03:30:15


Post by: Nightlord1987


I'm playing a small 500 pt Tourny this weekend, a fast 4 player per table kill points match. Gonna be using Death Guard as they are the most painted. Rules are simple, 1 HQ, 1 Troops minimum, No more than 10 wound models. No FW. Unique Strategems are one use only.

I expect to see tzeentch daemons, genestealer cult, Guard, Eldar/Ynarri, and Primaris.

Alliances are discouraged, but... I'm sure it will happen. With that in mind, it is a 4 player death match, so other forces will be contributing damage. So the theme is Death Guard resiliency.

I've made several lists, some with as little as 9 models, (Plagues in a rhino), some with 50, 60 (chaff cultist pox spam).

Daemon Prince or Plague Caster?
Plague Marines or Pox walker?
Bloat drone or Spawn?
Quality... or Quantity?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 03:48:33


Post by: Eldenfirefly


So, have anyone tried to spam Plague burst crawlers in a list before? How did it go?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 05:06:09


Post by: sennacherib


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm playing a small 500 pt Tourny this weekend, a fast 4 player per table kill points match. Gonna be using Death Guard as they are the most painted. Rules are simple, 1 HQ, 1 Troops minimum, No more than 10 wound models. No FW. Unique Strategems are one use only.

I expect to see tzeentch daemons, genestealer cult, Guard, Eldar/Ynarri, and Primaris.

Alliances are discouraged, but... I'm sure it will happen. With that in mind, it is a 4 player death match, so other forces will be contributing damage. So the theme is Death Guard resiliency.

I've made several lists, some with as little as 9 models, (Plagues in a rhino), some with 50, 60 (chaff cultist pox spam).

Daemon Prince or Plague Caster?
Plague Marines or Pox walker?
Bloat drone or Spawn?
Quality... or Quantity?



Pox walkers. Great screening units and cultists, they put out a ton of shooting

Battalion +3 cp
Sorcerer 102 pestilential vitality miasma of pestilence
20 pox walkers 120
20 cultists 80
22 cultists 88
Malignant plague caster blades of pestilence gift of contagion 110

Gives you a really tough nut to crack as long as you screen the pox walkers so that they don’t get shredded up front by enemy fire. Your foe would be smart to shoot all the pox walkers right out of the gates. If you can hide your walkers behind a vehicle like a rhino so that they at least live through the enemy shooting then you can hopefully grow them into a blob of 30-40. Make them T4, -1 to hit and they can be pretty unstoppable. Use cp maybe once to keep a unit of cultists from fleeing from moral. 500 pts is tough though. You won’t kill much unless you can make it to melee or the cultists being something done with shooting.

Or

3 foetid bloat drones with flesh mowers 408
Lord with power fist 88 Arch contaminator, helm

It would be pretty fast, super tough and if your lord RAN and was able to keep up with or at least support the drones, they would be reroll inf 1s in melee and rerolling all the wounds. Could be really hard to deal with.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 07:19:38


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Spoiler:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm playing a small 500 pt Tourny this weekend, a fast 4 player per table kill points match. Gonna be using Death Guard as they are the most painted. Rules are simple, 1 HQ, 1 Troops minimum, No more than 10 wound models. No FW. Unique Strategems are one use only.

I expect to see tzeentch daemons, genestealer cult, Guard, Eldar/Ynarri, and Primaris.

Alliances are discouraged, but... I'm sure it will happen. With that in mind, it is a 4 player death match, so other forces will be contributing damage. So the theme is Death Guard resiliency.

I've made several lists, some with as little as 9 models, (Plagues in a rhino), some with 50, 60 (chaff cultist pox spam).

Daemon Prince or Plague Caster?
Plague Marines or Pox walker?
Bloat drone or Spawn?
Quality... or Quantity?



I'd go neither HQ, but pick Lord of Contagion with Supperating plate and Tainted Regeneration WL trait. So hard to put him down and Tainted Regeneration is just bananas in a 4 player game with a wound back in each player turn. He's slower than the DP but with 4 players on the table there isn't much room to outmaneuver him without running into another player and he'll just walk through everything he touches.


DP is okay but the 4++ is money, as is the ability to use CP on VotLW and the boon table.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 12:55:04


Post by: XT-1984


New chapter approved rumours from naftka say Death Shroud are getting 15 points cheaper and plague marines are going down to 17 points per model. Hope its true, would make them a competitive choice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 14:14:35


Post by: gwarsh41


Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, have anyone tried to spam Plague burst crawlers in a list before? How did it go?


Had a 2V1 8K game last weekend. My partner and I both took 3 and put them all within 6" of a lord of chaos. They were supposed to get the epidemius tally going on the first turn, but they were really kinda all or nothing. We were shooting them at big stuff though, like a mastadon and brass scorpion though, as there were not many smaller targets. When they were shooting at rhinos and such, it still felt very hit or miss. one would wiff horribly, then the next would deal 10+dmg to it's target, then another complete miss of everything, and then the next was 7 or so dmg. Throughout the entire game they were never targeted though, opponent just figured it wasn't worth wasting shots on them.

I know games that big are terrible for tactica discussions, but I will be trying 3 of them in 2K games in the future as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/08 16:48:03


Post by: Pandabeer


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, have anyone tried to spam Plague burst crawlers in a list before? How did it go?


Had a 2V1 8K game last weekend. My partner and I both took 3 and put them all within 6" of a lord of chaos. They were supposed to get the epidemius tally going on the first turn, but they were really kinda all or nothing. We were shooting them at big stuff though, like a mastadon and brass scorpion though, as there were not many smaller targets. When they were shooting at rhinos and such, it still felt very hit or miss. one would wiff horribly, then the next would deal 10+dmg to it's target, then another complete miss of everything, and then the next was 7 or so dmg. Throughout the entire game they were never targeted though, opponent just figured it wasn't worth wasting shots on them.

I know games that big are terrible for tactica discussions, but I will be trying 3 of them in 2K games in the future as well.

.
Same here, will be using 3 + Chaos Lord support + Poxwalker bodyguard in a small tournament (17th november) in a 2K list, will be 3 games so will get back after that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/09 00:20:29


Post by: gwarsh41


The rumors about chapter approved have some points decreases for DG in them.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-coming-in.html

12pt drop for deathshroud terminators. Might actually use all 6 I own now. Quite a few decent drops across the board. Though I am not sure how reliable rumors are these days.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/09 00:34:23


Post by: ZergSmasher


 gwarsh41 wrote:
The rumors about chapter approved have some points decreases for DG in them.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-coming-in.html

12pt drop for deathshroud terminators. Might actually use all 6 I own now. Quite a few decent drops across the board. Though I am not sure how reliable rumors are these days.

Most of those seem suspiciously wishlisty. Not as outrageous as the Dark Angels rumors that had the Lion being way more powerful than any 2 of the other Primarchs, but still highly suspect. Most of the units mentioned are ones that are well known to need a price adjustment, hence why I think it is just someone's wishlist. That and the fact that only like 2 armies are mentioned.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/09 05:14:48


Post by: Marshal Loss


I'd hope for something to be done about the Plague Surgeon as well. But a points drop on Deathshroud would be brilliant


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/09 18:12:31


Post by: Wayniac


Thinking of this as a 1500 point "starter" list that seems fun and strong. Not sure what I'd add to expand to 2000; probably some of the heroes and maybe a third Plague Marine squad.

Spoiler:

Death Guard - Battalion Detachment

+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Warlord) - 180
- Wings
- 2x Malefic Talons
- The Suppurating Plate
- Power: Putrescent Vitality
- Warlord Trait: Arch-Contaminator

Malignant Plaguecaster - 110
- Power: Gift of Contagion, Miasma of Pestilence

+ TROOPS +
5x Plague Marines - 148
- 2x Blight Launcher
- Plasma Gun/Powerfist Champion

5x Plague Marines - 146
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Plasma Gun/Powerfist Champion

20x Poxwalkers - 120

+ ELITES +
3x Deathshroud Terminators - 225

5x Blightlord Terminators - 254
- 1x Flail of Corruption
- 1x Combi-plasma
- 1x Blight Launcher
- 2x Combi-Bolters
- 3x Bubotic Axe,
- 1x Balesword (Champion)

+ FAST ATTACK +
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
- 2x Plaguespitters

Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
- 2x Plaguespitters


I find that most of my lists have started with adding the Blightlords (their configuration is set as that's how they are assembled) and Deathshroud, since there's something really appealing about having two terminator squads in the list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/09 21:10:37


Post by: Pandabeer


Wayniac wrote:
Thinking of this as a 1500 point "starter" list that seems fun and strong. Not sure what I'd add to expand to 2000; probably some of the heroes and maybe a third Plague Marine squad.

Spoiler:

Death Guard - Battalion Detachment

+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Warlord) - 180
- Wings
- 2x Malefic Talons
- The Suppurating Plate
- Power: Putrescent Vitality
- Warlord Trait: Arch-Contaminator

Malignant Plaguecaster - 110
- Power: Gift of Contagion, Miasma of Pestilence

+ TROOPS +
5x Plague Marines - 148
- 2x Blight Launcher
- Plasma Gun/Powerfist Champion

5x Plague Marines - 146
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Plasma Gun/Powerfist Champion

20x Poxwalkers - 120

+ ELITES +
3x Deathshroud Terminators - 225

5x Blightlord Terminators - 254
- 1x Flail of Corruption
- 1x Combi-plasma
- 1x Blight Launcher
- 2x Combi-Bolters
- 3x Bubotic Axe,
- 1x Balesword (Champion)

+ FAST ATTACK +
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
- 2x Plaguespitters

Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
- 2x Plaguespitters


I find that most of my lists have started with adding the Blightlords (their configuration is set as that's how they are assembled) and Deathshroud, since there's something really appealing about having two terminator squads in the list.


Couple of things:

- Personally I'd swap Miasma of Pestilence from the Plaguecaster to the DP and Putrescent Viutality from the DP to the Caster so the DP can use it on himself and the Plaguecaster can buff your Terminators or himself (PV doesn't work on the Prince).
- 20 random poxwalkers aren't going to do much of anything. They don't synergize with anything in your list so I'd get another squad of Plague Marines to meet your batallion requirement.
- You really need a plan to get most out of the Deathshroud. I don't see a valuable enough target for them to protect in your list (a.k.a. Typhus or Morty) so I'm not sure of their value in your list given their high price and difficulty of getting them into melee. Not entirely sure what to replace them with though. Maybe you could swap the Poxwalkers + Deathshroud for an extra DP and a third kitted-out squad of marines?
- Blightlords are best when they go full combi-plasma (if you are willing to keep something that reroll 1s within 6" at all times, deepstriking a vanilla Terminator lord next to them would be ideal for this) or combi-melta + one with Flail (although I run my 5 man squad without it, but they sacrifice a lot of versatility in exchange for extra specialist ranged firepower, so not sure what the best option is here). Their melee isn't the best besides the dude with the flail so they need the plasma's or melta's to be threatening enough for their rather high price.

edit: As for your Blightlord assembly, no one is going to have a problem with running combi-bolters as combi-something else. You only get one bit for each special combi-weapon in the Blightlords box so if someone starts being That Guy you can point to GW being the culprit and use Counts As anyway.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/10 02:13:21


Post by: broxus


I prefer just combi bolters for my blightlords. They are cheap and monsters in combat. The plasma is not good since you will likely lose 1-2 models a game overheating it. Meltas are solid, but make the unit very expensive. At that point it is better just to use 2xPBCs.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/10 14:05:33


Post by: Tiberius501


I'm considering going an infantry only DG army and was wandering what the best anti-tank option that'd allow?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/10 16:28:43


Post by: sennacherib


Mortarion?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/10 17:53:18


Post by: Kzraahk


Mortarion and Combi-Melta Blightlords?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/10 21:20:20


Post by: Dr. Temujin


Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/10 22:11:25


Post by: gwarsh41


 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.


I had always read about how awesome warp time was at turn 1 charges. I guess mentally I just associated it with a free 12" move. Had a recent game where the only target to cast warp time was some Deathshroud. Getting an additional 4" move was very underwhelming... Though if they had just deep struck, that's cutting charge range down to 5, very good use.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 01:54:15


Post by: broxus


If the new rumored cost of plague marines is really 17pts a model and blight launchers also received a points reduction to 10pts I think the unit will be a solid option. I was running my 5x man squads with 3x plasma guns at 134pts. With the rumors I can run my 5x man squads with 2x blight launchers and 1x plasma gun for example only 118pts.

That would be a welcomed change.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 02:17:54


Post by: Tiberius501


Thanks everyone for the suggestions

I agree broxus, the points changes they listed would be glorious if they turn out true. A much needed change imo


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 16:45:05


Post by: Vortenger


 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.


You don't have to have a separate detachment to get Warptime. If you wish to have forward units utilize the power just use a Index Daemon Prince (CSM dataslate), rather than Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Sure, you lose DR, but you get your Hereticus Discipline and a warp bolter in compensation.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 17:00:20


Post by: broxus


Vortenger wrote:
 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.


You don't have to have a separate detachment to get Warptime. If you wish to have forward units utilize the power just use a Index Daemon Prince (CSM dataslate), rather than Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Sure, you lose DR, but you get your Hereticus Discipline and a warp bolter in compensation.



But that data sheet doesn’t have the death guard keyword.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 19:04:20


Post by: Aelyn


broxus wrote:
Vortenger wrote:
 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.


You don't have to have a separate detachment to get Warptime. If you wish to have forward units utilize the power just use a Index Daemon Prince (CSM dataslate), rather than Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Sure, you lose DR, but you get your Hereticus Discipline and a warp bolter in compensation.


But that data sheet doesn’t have the death guard keyword.

To elaborate, there are currently four dataslates that can be described as Daemon Princes:

Be'Lakor (Index: Chaos)
Daemon Prince of Chaos (Index: Chaos)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Codex: Death Guard)
Daemon Prince (Originally in Index: Chaos, but overwritten by Codex: Chaos Space Marines)

As the Daemon Prince dataslate has most recently been printed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, that is considered the current version of the dataslate, and the <LEGION> keyword on that dataslate cannot be set to Death Guard.

Even still, I like having a small Renegade contingent in my Death Guard, as that allows me to use other units which are not normally available to Death Guard.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 20:09:04


Post by: SilverAlien


 gwarsh41 wrote:
The rumors about chapter approved have some points decreases for DG in them.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-coming-in.html

12pt drop for deathshroud terminators. Might actually use all 6 I own now. Quite a few decent drops across the board. Though I am not sure how reliable rumors are these days.


Not any huge changes that I see, beyond plague marines finally being a reasonable choice. Most of the rest you would either already be taking or will still ignore, but the prices drops on the former can help fit in a little bit extra.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
I'm considering going an infantry only DG army and was wandering what the best anti-tank option that'd allow?


As in, only the infantry keyword, so no morty, no transports, no daemon engines, and no dreads? That's tough. Blightlords with melta or plasma will probably be your main option, and they aren't ideal. I think the blightspawn is the one with the random strength flamer weapon, he could help. Plague marines with blight launchers aren't bad for some additional support.

Honestly though, I wouldn't recommend going pure infantry with DG. We are probably the army least suited to pure infantry in the game currently, along with admech and GK as contenders.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/11 21:39:17


Post by: Vortenger


broxus wrote:
But that data sheet doesn’t have the death guard keyword.


Ah, but according to the the index it does. The index allows Daemon Princes as per the index DG section. As others mentioned that entry has been updated in the CSM codex, but the index grants us explicit permission to use the dataslate with the relevant keywords. I'm aware the CSM codex has exemptions but we're using the index entry, not CSM.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 03:56:33


Post by: Zid


So I was thinking... Plagueburst Crawlers w/ Daemonforge from CSM; good idea?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 03:58:00


Post by: Arachnofiend


 Zid wrote:
So I was thinking... Plagueburst Crawlers w/ Daemonforge from CSM; good idea?

Good idea, but not legal. The Daemonforge stratagem specifies "Chaos Space Marines" units, which is different from <Heretic Astartes> in the sense that "Chaos Space Marines" cannot be Death Guard or Thousand Sons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 04:00:00


Post by: Zid


 Arachnofiend wrote:
 Zid wrote:
So I was thinking... Plagueburst Crawlers w/ Daemonforge from CSM; good idea?

Good idea, but not legal. The Daemonforge stratagem specifies "Chaos Space Marines" units, which is different from <Heretic Astartes> in the sense that "Chaos Space Marines" cannot be Death Guard or Thousand Sons.


Huh... so because it says Chaos Space Marine before the keyword, it will not work on Death Guard Daemon Engines? That stinks... I really wanted to run it :( Looking through codex DG, it highlights Death Guard for a keyword, while Chaos Space Marine is not a keyword... very confusing


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 04:08:06


Post by: Arachnofiend


Yeah, it's all very confusing. For the other example Tide of Traitors merely asks for Chaos Cultists, so as long as you have a "Chaos Space Marines" detachment to unlock it you can use it on your <Death Guard> cultists.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 04:49:03


Post by: Zid


 Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah, it's all very confusing. For the other example Tide of Traitors merely asks for Chaos Cultists, so as long as you have a "Chaos Space Marines" detachment to unlock it you can use it on your <Death Guard> cultists.


Thanks for the clarification, that stinks man... I think PBC's with that Stratagem would be epicsauce


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 06:13:06


Post by: ZergSmasher


 Zid wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah, it's all very confusing. For the other example Tide of Traitors merely asks for Chaos Cultists, so as long as you have a "Chaos Space Marines" detachment to unlock it you can use it on your <Death Guard> cultists.


Thanks for the clarification, that stinks man... I think PBC's with that Stratagem would be epicsauce

That's probably why they didn't give Death Guard the Daemonforge stratagem. Although I hardly think it would be OP or anything. It would work okay on a Foetid Bloat Drone with Heavy Blight Launcher, or a Myphitic Blight Hauler as well.

Although, I never see it used even in regular CSM because the units that could really benefit from it (Forgefiend, Defiler) are utter trash. I guess it works okay on a Maulerfiend or a Heldrake too, but I've yet to see one of those on the table in 8th.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 13:43:50


Post by: sennacherib


Defiler are not utter trash. They are over coated a bit but if you use the reroll everything on a defiler it does a ton of damage.

Statistically speaking they will do more damage with their las Cannon, battle Cannon combo that a lascannon predator when using the strategem. They do 7 wounds per turn to a Vehicle compared to predators which average 5. They are also significantly harder to kill due to greater number of wounds, 5+ invulnerable, healing each turn. It takes 9 las Cannon hits to kill one on average compared to 5.7 to kill a predator. They can also punch pretty hard in melee with or without reroll everything. If you plan on spending the strategem point each round on one of these it’s a much better investment than a predator is.

That said, the fact that a buff is required means they are not a great unit. They are just ok. But given that they do provide both melee and firesupport they do bridge a weird gap. Try one sometime and you may be surprised


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/13 15:14:08


Post by: Jidmah


Don't they lose their fire support role when they start moving forwards for combat?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/14 01:41:59


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 sennacherib wrote:
Defiler are not utter trash. They are over coated a bit but if you use the reroll everything on a defiler it does a ton of damage.

Statistically speaking they will do more damage with their las Cannon, battle Cannon combo that a lascannon predator when using the strategem. They do 7 wounds per turn to a Vehicle compared to predators which average 5. They are also significantly harder to kill due to greater number of wounds, 5+ invulnerable, healing each turn. It takes 9 las Cannon hits to kill one on average compared to 5.7 to kill a predator. They can also punch pretty hard in melee with or without reroll everything. If you plan on spending the strategem point each round on one of these it’s a much better investment than a predator is.

That said, the fact that a buff is required means they are not a great unit. They are just ok. But given that they do provide both melee and firesupport they do bridge a weird gap. Try one sometime and you may be surprised


I agree. Now that their cost has been brought down, defilers are very decent. I had one defiler fight Celestine to a standstill and almost kill her. She backed away from that combat smartly, she couldn't do much damage to the defiler despite her weapon being strength 7.. Defilers are very deadly in close combat and decent in ranged combat. And their cost is quite ok too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/14 04:10:22


Post by: sennacherib


Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/14 10:50:42


Post by: broxus


 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 01:46:07


Post by: Dew


Are minimum five man death guard squads a viable unit? I know the troops are pretty tough but is anyone running multiple five-man units?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 04:14:02


Post by: sennacherib


broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 07:13:43


Post by: Milkshaker


does anyone have any experience against the new tyranids? I saw a list of a friend this week which semi reliably set up 5 first turn charges of 9" or less when the enemy deploys at 24.1". I'm not sure how to deal with a broodlord, 2x20 genestealers and a flying hive tyrant in melee in turn 1. (and a lictor with pheromone trail, but that one isn't that much of an issue on his own)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 07:40:50


Post by: Ohris


Milkshaker wrote:
does anyone have any experience against the new tyranids? I saw a list of a friend this week which semi reliably set up 5 first turn charges of 9" or less when the enemy deploys at 24.1". I'm not sure how to deal with a broodlord, 2x20 genestealers and a flying hive tyrant in melee in turn 1. (and a lictor with pheromone trail, but that one isn't that much of an issue on his own)


No played against nids but I like to use cheap units of Nurglings to limit enemies deepstriking too close to my main army. Nurglings are pretty tough against certain kind of shooting but nids will destroy them with assault and get first blood but thats better than them getting on the main army.
Since nurglings can deploy anywhere that is not the enemy deployment zone, they are great for limiting deep strike places for any enemy.
I like to use atleast 2-3 units of 3 nurglings to do this.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 09:49:53


Post by: Continuity


So I recently started DG and I've been brainstorming matchups, I know PBC is highly rated but it seems like its damage output will drop a lot when facing any armies with -1 to hit bonuses or fliers, and I have a hard time figuring out how DG can handle a fast eldar list with army-wide -1 to hit which can control the board in relative safety. Do we have any good strategy to dealing with these kind of opponents without fetching some CSM units?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 10:59:00


Post by: Tiberius501


I'm having trouble seeing why the Plagueburst Crawler is highly regarded, compared to a Leman Russ which everyone said sucked. Their toughness is great, they never die. But in every game I've used them in, the 4+ to hit causes them to do next to nothing. The mortar suffers from the same issue as the old Leman Russes, it kills just 1 or 2 dudes if it's lucky. And the entropy cannons would be good except, again, hitting on 4+ then d6 dmg means it struggles to do much when it does hit.
Am I missing something? The Leman Russ is now a lot better in my eyes, since it's been upgraded to shoot 2d6 shots with its main gun, but before then most regarded them as garbage. So how come people say the PBC is really good? I don't think people wrong, I just don't know how to use them well enough to be effective. Can anyone give me some pointers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 12:19:03


Post by: Jidmah


From what I gather the PBC is great at taking lots of wounds off vehicles and monsters, but not that great at killing infantry.

It basically should be used like a predator annihilator with lascannon sponsons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 13:33:55


Post by: Ohris


Also I would park a chaos lord next to the Plague burst crawlers to mitigate that 4+ to hit a bit.
Also other units to gain from the chaos lord to get more from his points.

Also the tanks can be healed with some demon magics and there are other perks too that make them at least ok for me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 13:36:15


Post by: Tiberius501


Ah that makes sense. Yeah I played another game today and one took out one of those new Primaris Dreadnaughts pretty quickly. The chaos lord sounds like a good plan and I'm sort tempted to chuck some daemons in so that might be sweet too.

EDIT: also, was wandering what people's thoughts are on Plague Bearers. I tend to use a blob of 20 pox walkers to cover my melee unit of Plague marines (using that amazing stratagem). Would a unit of 16 Plague bearers do a better job of that? With toughness 4, 5++, 5+++, seems like it'd make up for the 4 less wounds in the unit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 13:51:05


Post by: sennacherib


Moral can hurt the plague bearers.

I have been screening my pox walkers with 20+ plague bearers. At least that way the enemy has to really work to create pox walkers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/15 20:24:51


Post by: Continuity


Since I have played mostly marines, I can't really think of an effective way to deal with high toughness units other than jamming 8 lascannons into it. So I'm trying to think about how we can effectively deal with an Eldar wraith-list, especially one with the -1 to hit tactics and lots of wave serpents, at the end of the day I think DG really doesn't have a reliable way to take out a -1 to hit Wave Serpent, so perhaps the best option is simply to use our superior defense to weather their attacks and use our poxwalkers to screen our high value units so that the wave serpents can never get a good disembark for their passengers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/16 04:27:51


Post by: Tiberius501


I think a few Bloat-drones with the heavy blight launchers/plague mowers and plasma/blight launcher plague marine units would do pretty well against high toughness armies, along with a couple of Plagueburst Crawlers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/16 04:37:27


Post by: COLD CASH


 Continuity wrote:
So I recently started DG and I've been brainstorming matchups, I know PBC is highly rated but it seems like its damage output will drop a lot when facing any armies with -1 to hit bonuses or fliers, and I have a hard time figuring out how DG can handle a fast eldar list with army-wide -1 to hit which can control the board in relative safety. Do we have any good strategy to dealing with these kind of opponents without fetching some CSM units?


Ive heard multiple blightspawn is a winner!

Park 1-2 in your back field with screeners like nurglings and let them flamer punch stuff in the face!! also limits charging units.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/16 05:59:03


Post by: broxus


 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/16 08:57:40


Post by: Continuity


COLD CASH wrote:
 Continuity wrote:
So I recently started DG and I've been brainstorming matchups, I know PBC is highly rated but it seems like its damage output will drop a lot when facing any armies with -1 to hit bonuses or fliers, and I have a hard time figuring out how DG can handle a fast eldar list with army-wide -1 to hit which can control the board in relative safety. Do we have any good strategy to dealing with these kind of opponents without fetching some CSM units?


Ive heard multiple blightspawn is a winner!

Park 1-2 in your back field with screeners like nurglings and let them flamer punch stuff in the face!! also limits charging units.


Blightspawn is one of those things that has ridiculous burst damage, but its range is seriously limiting (5' movement + d6 advance + 9' range) so anything that feels threatened by it will likely move out of the way, it needs to be paired with a blightbringer to enhance its movement.

Its ability to limit charging units is a missed potential, since it only forces chargers to fight normally instead of last, which means this ability is not going to save a unit getting charge by some CC monster because the opponent will just activate his unit first.

Definitely a character that requires finesse and very careful movement to make the most out of and I will try it out in my lists, but I wouldn't rely on it to shoot planes out of the skies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


How does PBC fair when shooting at things with a -1 to hit bonus? I expect its damage output to get hit very badly.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/16 09:51:58


Post by: Latro_


I'v had quite a bit of luck with defilers in 8th as a HtH unit.

with a Scourge you get in there unscathed (possible) ye have 4 s16 attacks at -3 doing d6 damage and 3 s12 -2 3dmg attacks! its not to be sniffed at!!!

Really decent if you have a DP near by re-rolling 1's to hit.

Ye rocking 14 wounds, 3+ 5++ inv and you get a wound back a turn (this is very userful). They can definitely take some punishment .

Plus with DG you have the awesome always blows up strat which owing to the defilers massive footprint can be terrifying.

I normally dont even bother firing its guns, 8" run and smoke first turn.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/16 19:10:32


Post by: Strangelooper


nevermind


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/17 05:25:31


Post by: Vortenger


Blight Hauler found? Also our Manreaper Lord of Contagion, is seems.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/11/40k-breaking-new-nurgle-blight-hauler-primaris-kits-spotted.html


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/17 08:24:03


Post by: broxus


 Continuity wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
 Continuity wrote:
So I recently started DG and I've been brainstorming matchups, I know PBC is highly rated but it seems like its damage output will drop a lot when facing any armies with -1 to hit bonuses or fliers, and I have a hard time figuring out how DG can handle a fast eldar list with army-wide -1 to hit which can control the board in relative safety. Do we have any good strategy to dealing with these kind of opponents without fetching some CSM units?


Ive heard multiple blightspawn is a winner!

Park 1-2 in your back field with screeners like nurglings and let them flamer punch stuff in the face!! also limits charging units.


Blightspawn is one of those things that has ridiculous burst damage, but its range is seriously limiting (5' movement + d6 advance + 9' range) so anything that feels threatened by it will likely move out of the way, it needs to be paired with a blightbringer to enhance its movement.

Its ability to limit charging units is a missed potential, since it only forces chargers to fight normally instead of last, which means this ability is not going to save a unit getting charge by some CC monster because the opponent will just activate his unit first.

Definitely a character that requires finesse and very careful movement to make the most out of and I will try it out in my lists, but I wouldn't rely on it to shoot planes out of the skies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


How does PBC fair when shooting at things with a -1 to hit bonus? I expect its damage output to get hit very badly.


A PBC will still do more damage than a 4-las cannon Predator if they even both have -1 to hit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/17 09:37:04


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


If I follow the new flowchart right, our PMs can take Plasmapistols again and the champions have access to Combi - and powerweapons again. Cool thing We still can't take powerweapon + combiweapon like in older editions, though, but that's okay for me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/17 22:36:06


Post by: lucas


I'm thinking about putting a single helbrute into my mono DG army just for the sake of having a really neat conversion I want to use. I use three squads of 5 PM with max plasma, 1 squad of 10 blightlords with Typhus, 2 blightspawn, 2 plaguecasters, 1 flying DP, and several units of pox walkers.

I get several combat points from this so the option of using the helbrute stratagem is there if needed. What loadout would you suggest for this model? I haven't done the arms yet and have conversions for all weapon options. I don't want to magnetize so once I pick something I'm probably sticking to it. Any particular role this helbrute should fill?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/18 01:03:56


Post by: Nightlord1987


I think taking advantage of the moving and shooting should be considered. I built mine with Reaper and Missile Launcher. But if I had to do it differently, maybe a heavy bolter and a power scourge for the fluffy 7 attacks.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/18 06:32:13


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Twin Las and Power Scourge


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/18 12:12:06


Post by: DarklyDreaming


So what are you experiences lately playing DG?
I was really afraid of IG and Mechanicus since their codex came out, but playing against them now it doesnt feel that wrong, I'm winning a lot of games. Ofc our stratagems are weaker and less flexible, but with the psychic powers, blightlords, PBCs, and archcontaminator princes, I dont see DG that ''underperforming''.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/18 20:27:52


Post by: cerberus_


broxus wrote:
 Continuity wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
 Continuity wrote:
So I recently started DG and I've been brainstorming matchups, I know PBC is highly rated but it seems like its damage output will drop a lot when facing any armies with -1 to hit bonuses or fliers, and I have a hard time figuring out how DG can handle a fast eldar list with army-wide -1 to hit which can control the board in relative safety. Do we have any good strategy to dealing with these kind of opponents without fetching some CSM units?


Ive heard multiple blightspawn is a winner!

Park 1-2 in your back field with screeners like nurglings and let them flamer punch stuff in the face!! also limits charging units.


Blightspawn is one of those things that has ridiculous burst damage, but its range is seriously limiting (5' movement + d6 advance + 9' range) so anything that feels threatened by it will likely move out of the way, it needs to be paired with a blightbringer to enhance its movement.

Its ability to limit charging units is a missed potential, since it only forces chargers to fight normally instead of last, which means this ability is not going to save a unit getting charge by some CC monster because the opponent will just activate his unit first.

Definitely a character that requires finesse and very careful movement to make the most out of and I will try it out in my lists, but I wouldn't rely on it to shoot planes out of the skies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


How does PBC fair when shooting at things with a -1 to hit bonus? I expect its damage output to get hit very badly.


A PBC will still do more damage than a 4-las cannon Predator if they even both have -1 to hit.


From what I remember of the math done, the plague burst crawler only out damages the predator when backed up by a lord. In regards to the -1 to hit, the las predator will drop to a 50% chance to hit while the crawler will drop to a 33%. I don't know where you got the math on your statements, but a source might be good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/19 03:03:34


Post by: broxus


Nope the PBC always wins. http://www.mathhammer8thed.com Make sure you add up the damage of all four weapons.

Against a T7 vehicle with a 3+ save a PBC does 7.388 damage
Against a T7 vehicle with a 3+ save a Las predator does 5.185 damage
Against a T8 vehicle with a 3+ save a PBC does 5.625 damage
Against a T8 vehicle with a 3+ save a Las predator does 5.185 damage


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/19 13:03:16


Post by: Pandabeer


Sooo... played a small tournament yesterday and got crushed xD Grey Knights vs. Mortarion ain't a funny combination...

Anyway, some of my findings:

- PBCs were very hit or miss. Sometimes they did good damage, sometimes they completely missed their mark and I did 0 damage with all shots (curse you Stygies VIII Kastelans with your -1 to hit penalty and 5++ (or was it 4++?) against shooting) and sometimes they did quite well, but never earth-shattering. Thinking I'm using them wrong. Trying to create a parking lot with a chaos lord with them does not seem to be worth it. I only had 2 (my 3rd isn't finished yet) and even then I had a lot of trouble actually deploying them next to each other because they're rather broad and terrain got in the way. Let alone the trouble of having to deploy 3 or 4 within 6" of a Chaos Lord... furthermore, placing all your tanks close to each other makes it easier for your opponents to lock them all up in melee which happened in my GK game (Celestine with her move-twice trick to lock them both into CC turn 1...). I planned to use Poxies as meat shields but was forced to deploy them elsewhere most of the time to deter deepstrikers.

Also, the main thing they seemed to be awesome at was actually soaking damage instead of dishing it out. The things are dead 'ard. This leads me to believe it's better to spread them out over your deployment zone to harass your opponent with constant light damage that he'll have to dedicate a lot of resources to to take out or take serious damage over the course of a match. A Distraction Carnifex of sorts.

- Contrary to my former belief Blightlords without a Flail don't work. Too easy to tarpit them in CC. Happened in 2 out of 3 matches (although it was nice to see them holding out for 3 or 4 turns against a VenDread smashing them Too bad I couldn't do much back to it). Gonna need another squad of them to model 2 with flails (still got 1 left) and the rest with combi-melta's. In the end that means I'll have a squad with flail + 4 combi-plasma's and a squad with flail + 4 combi-melta's. I still think combi-plas is very nice and worth the risk but I think it'd also be nice to have a squad that doesn't depend on having a Lord nearby to operate at full effectiveness.

- I really need to learn to play Morty smarter if I don't want to get one-shot with GK Smite + Combi-Bolter spam... Why are those Deathshroud so damn slow

I also wonder if I should play DG focused on one thing or in a more varied style... the PBCs and Poxies were very tough but they also seemed to be a little disconnected from the rest of my army. I wonder if I should just get 3 squads of melee PMs and toss them all into Rhino's to accompany Mortarion while I make a separate list with my PBCs, ranged PMs and Poxwalkers that's more focused on mid-long range firepower and on attritional warfare rather than just rushing into assault or deepstriking close like Mortarion, my Demon Prince and Terminators like to do. Lots of things to think about.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 02:12:35


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I was wondering how effective a whole line of plague marines marching up the board firing their blight launchers would be. So with that in mind, I made a list with 6 squads of these, with plague burst crawlers in support.

The idea is that everything in the list is hard to kill. Plague marines, plague burst crawlers, and daemon princes all have DR. The list is a mid ranged one because of the plague marines, but its designed to take punishment and keep on firing (a very death guard trait). The daemon princes are just there to provide a possible counter charge in case some melee unit gets close and needs to be taken out. I would counter charge them with a plague marine squad backed by two DP which would be the ones doing the actual killing. I would take the helm artifact and arch contaminator to give a bigger bubble and rerolls to wound on all plague weapons within the bubble (good for the blight launchers and plague burst crawlers).

Here’s the rough list.

6 squads of 5 plague marines, 2 blight launchers and a buonic axe for each squad. 2 Daemon Princes, 5 plague crawlers, 1 chao lord.

So, I would deploy the 6 squads in one unbroken continuous line across the whole board. And the 5 Plague burst crawlers would be spread out at a distance behind them so that they fill up the space behind, so that deep strikers cannot get in. So, the idea is just to keep firing and pound the crap out of people and rely on the famed resilience of death guard to carry the day. I might not have the best in shooting, but I would expect my shooting to stay in the game and keep firing for a much longer time than the opponents.

The line of plague marines would march forward to just within range of 24 inches of a target and shoot. Ideally, they would stay at the 24 inch mark. But if something really comes close, I would rely on my two DP to take those out. I don’t have to worry about morale, because all the squads are just 5 man strong. I don’t know if this shooting is enough to overwhelm the opponent, but in theory, its 24 blight launcher shots, plus all the shooting from 5 plague crawlers, with rerolls to hit on 1s, and rerolls to wounds.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I run into a situation where melee wise, I am obviously stronger, because the opponent is a pure gunline. Then I would move advance my plague marines every turn along with the two DP, while still firing plague burst crawlers in support.

Hopefully, the plague marines's resilience would be able to weather enough shooting along with my own counter fire, which is undiminished despite advancing forward every turn. And when I get into range of charging, the entire line will charge, supported by the two DP.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 04:05:22


Post by: sennacherib


broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


Not entirely true. Predators do 5.08 wounds to tanks. Pbc do 3.82.
Pbc do in fact do about .38 wounds more to a tank than a defiler. Defiler however can re roll to hit and to wound for a whole phase for 1 cp bumping their damage output by a significant level. They are also punchier which makes them better in the back field to guard objectives, and their range is significantly longer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 12:36:33


Post by: Dew


Are three Blight Haulers effective enough anti-tank to be in this discussion with the Defiler vs PBC vs LasPredator?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 14:35:49


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Thoughts on Hellforged predators loaded up with flamers ?

Charge up the field autohitting and charging stuff.. Then exploding. Could be fun.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 15:49:01


Post by: stalkerzero


I'm really torn as to what to try next. I'm in a newer play group that's moving up from 1000 points to basically 1850.

I've been running two squads of 8 plague marines (with 3 plasma in each), Lord of Contagion, Typhus, a Foetid Bloat drone so far and been wrecking the Tau I play against most often.

But now that he'll be spamming Crisis Suits and drones I'm a tad afraid what to add to combat that.

I have ten terminators to add to the above army. Five are built pure melee and I'm thinking of building the other five for shooting.

I am leaning towards removing the bloat drone because it never does anything for me. I'd really love some more plague marines but I have a feeling I'm going to really want some Plagueburst Crawlers to try to hit the suits.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 16:03:02


Post by: blackmage


for me PBC could be played more agressive than you can ever think, lot of damage is dealt with plaguespitters, when you sit the PBC on objective your opponent should spend lot of efforts to disloge it, so you have time to develop the rest of ur army, at KP is a very hard nut to crack, maybe it's not the best damage output platform but sure it drag lot of efforts and if ur oppoent haven't a decent anti tank he will never remove them, more or less the same with foetid drones, play aggressively, and they work fine for their cost, if you expect to place them at bottom of your deply zone and shoot with mortars only... well.... good luck, play a single drone/pbc is a no sense.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 17:08:25


Post by: Atlatl Jones


Dew wrote:
Are three Blight Haulers effective enough anti-tank to be in this discussion with the Defiler vs PBC vs LasPredator?

That's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Blight Haulers' effective range is much shorter - 12" for maximum effectiveness - but they can move and fire without penalty, so they really are fast attack vehicles rather than heavy support. They can't park on high terrain and hit far-away tanks like the others can.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 17:59:07


Post by: Strat_N8


 Continuity wrote:
Its ability to limit charging units is a missed potential, since it only forces chargers to fight normally instead of last, which means this ability is not going to save a unit getting charge by some CC monster because the opponent will just activate his unit first.



It does mess up multi-assaults though, since only 1 unit will get to swing before whatever they charged.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 18:36:15


Post by: kilfrg7864


Can anyone help shed some light on how they effectively use Mortarion to get in range?

I used him for the first time yesterday... but he got blown up by the end of turn one.... I try to run up bloat drones and my daemon prince with him but he just gets focused fired so hard.

I was playing on hammer and anvil deployment and it would have taken me 2-3 turns to get in charge range, theres no way he would survive that long the way im playing at least....

So yea any input would be great


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 19:21:00


Post by: Dew


Atlatl Jones wrote:
Dew wrote:
Are three Blight Haulers effective enough anti-tank to be in this discussion with the Defiler vs PBC vs LasPredator?

That's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Blight Haulers' effective range is much shorter - 12" for maximum effectiveness - but they can move and fire without penalty, so they really are fast attack vehicles rather than heavy support. They can't park on high terrain and hit far-away tanks like the others can.


Yeah I suppose you are correct, that makes sense.
Their rule of 3 really seems to make them shine but that can get pricey.

I'm trying to fill out my heavy anti-tank slot in my army and I want to stick with Daemon engines. Really interested in the PBC vs Defiler chat to see which way to go.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 19:32:15


Post by: gwarsh41


kilfrg7864 wrote:
Can anyone help shed some light on how they effectively use Mortarion to get in range?

I used him for the first time yesterday... but he got blown up by the end of turn one.... I try to run up bloat drones and my daemon prince with him but he just gets focused fired so hard.

I was playing on hammer and anvil deployment and it would have taken me 2-3 turns to get in charge range, theres no way he would survive that long the way im playing at least....

So yea any input would be great


Deathshroud terminators and miasma of pestilence. Remember that they have to target morty, so miasma will always give them -1 to hit, then on a +2, it just hits a terminator. The terminators have the same invul and DG save, and most weapons will be wounding them on 3s, as they would be on mortarion as well. Against small arms fire, the DSTDA are tougher than morty, as they boast a +2 save. What is really important with this is that if an opponent somehow fires 30 lascannons shots at once, you can intercept all of them. Then if the first 3 kill your deathshroud, the remaining shots are gone and cannot hurt morty. However you do not get to choose what you roll on. It's all or nothing.

The downside of this is that DS are VERY EXPENSIVE, and if they are on the table turn 1, they will probably never hurt anything. However if they die protecting morty, then they have been worthwhile. Rumor has it they will get a points drop (please please please) Big ass LoS terrain is something I almost always push for, even if I dont have anything big. It creates a need for more tactical play than just sit back and shoot. I have had loads of fun playing ring around the building with an opponent's imperial knight chasing my units in circles (not DG units, those fatties are too slow lol) While mortarions size makes him super hard to hide, getting a +1 to your save is never a bad thing.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 19:42:57


Post by: blackmage


warptime+miasma on him...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 20:40:08


Post by: Kzraahk


Since our Princes can now take Warp Bolters... Are they worth it?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 22:03:05


Post by: kilfrg7864


 gwarsh41 wrote:
kilfrg7864 wrote:
Can anyone help shed some light on how they effectively use Mortarion to get in range?

I used him for the first time yesterday... but he got blown up by the end of turn one.... I try to run up bloat drones and my daemon prince with him but he just gets focused fired so hard.

I was playing on hammer and anvil deployment and it would have taken me 2-3 turns to get in charge range, theres no way he would survive that long the way im playing at least....

So yea any input would be great


Deathshroud terminators and miasma of pestilence. Remember that they have to target morty, so miasma will always give them -1 to hit, then on a +2, it just hits a terminator. The terminators have the same invul and DG save, and most weapons will be wounding them on 3s, as they would be on mortarion as well. Against small arms fire, the DSTDA are tougher than morty, as they boast a +2 save. What is really important with this is that if an opponent somehow fires 30 lascannons shots at once, you can intercept all of them. Then if the first 3 kill your deathshroud, the remaining shots are gone and cannot hurt morty. However you do not get to choose what you roll on. It's all or nothing.

The downside of this is that DS are VERY EXPENSIVE, and if they are on the table turn 1, they will probably never hurt anything. However if they die protecting morty, then they have been worthwhile. Rumor has it they will get a points drop (please please please) Big ass LoS terrain is something I almost always push for, even if I dont have anything big. It creates a need for more tactical play than just sit back and shoot. I have had loads of fun playing ring around the building with an opponent's imperial knight chasing my units in circles (not DG units, those fatties are too slow lol) While mortarions size makes him super hard to hide, getting a +1 to your save is never a bad thing.


Yea. That def is an option. Just really expensive. And I do like my blightlord models haha


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/20 23:42:58


Post by: lucas


Are we able to use the Chaos Familiar stratagem from Heretic Astartes to give our Malignant Plaguecasters, Typhus, etc. psyker powers like warptime, death hex, prescience?

It says it just needs to be used on a model with "Heretic Astartes Psyker"

This is assuming that I'm already take a CSM detachment to go along with my death guard. Just want to know if I can use the option if my warptime CSM sorceror ever dies early or something like that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 00:29:09


Post by: sennacherib


lucas wrote:
Are we able to use the Chaos Familiar stratagem from Heretic Astartes to give our Malignant Plaguecasters, Typhus, etc. psyker powers like warptime, death hex, prescience?

It says it just needs to be used on a model with "Heretic Astartes Psyker"

This is assuming that I'm already take a CSM detachment to go along with my death guard. Just want to know if I can use the option if my warptime CSM sorceror ever dies early or something like that.


I pretty much always ally a CSM sorcerer and heavy support CSM options like obliterators into my armies.
Death hex warp time and prescience rock. Your sorcerer has to be the one casting but these work on most/all death Guard due to them being Heratic astartes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote:
Atlatl Jones wrote:
Dew wrote:
Are three Blight Haulers effective enough anti-tank to be in this discussion with the Defiler vs PBC vs LasPredator?

That's almost like comparing apples and oranges. Blight Haulers' effective range is much shorter - 12" for maximum effectiveness - but they can move and fire without penalty, so they really are fast attack vehicles rather than heavy support. They can't park on high terrain and hit far-away tanks like the others can.


Yeah I suppose you are correct, that makes sense.
Their rule of 3 really seems to make them shine but that can get pricey.

I'm trying to fill out my heavy anti-tank slot in my army and I want to stick with Daemon engines. Really interested in the PBC vs Defiler chat to see which way to go.


I think it depends on what you want to use the slot for in game. If you are using them to hold the back field against any enemy, defilers are more versatile. I used one yesterday in two games. The strategem that let me reroll everything each turn meant he was dishing out the hurt. PBC from my perspective are not all that great. Pretty much the way I feel about defilers but a defiler is multi role. Dosnt need to be constantly babysat by your HQ to be really effective, and I like the model.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 05:34:20


Post by: devk88


lucas wrote:
Are we able to use the Chaos Familiar stratagem from Heretic Astartes to give our Malignant Plaguecasters, Typhus, etc. psyker powers like warptime, death hex, prescience?

It says it just needs to be used on a model with "Heretic Astartes Psyker"

This is assuming that I'm already take a CSM detachment to go along with my death guard. Just want to know if I can use the option if my warptime CSM sorceror ever dies early or something like that.


If you have a CSM detachment it enables you to use the stratagem Chaos Familiar, so yes you can use it on heretic astartes psykers. It can even be used with Mortarion to give himself warptime. Neat stuff.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 06:58:37


Post by: Deck1026


I am going to against a space wolf player this Friday (1000pts). Any strategy suggest? Don't want to lose this time:(.Thanks! Below is his list:

Spacewolf Patrol:
-----------------------HQ---------------------------------------------------
-Stormcaller with T armor
-Wolf guard battle leader on wolf
----------------------Troops------------------------------------------------
- Blood Claws with leader (9)
- Greyhunter with leader (9)+Wolf guard with storm bolter x 1
---------------------Elite----------------------------------------------------
-Lukas the trickster
-Wulfen with leader (5):
4x frost claws,1x storm shield with Thunder Hammer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A drop pod
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to use:
Death guard Outrider + Super heavy Aux:
Mortarion, 3 x FBD(2x Spitters,1x Fleshmower) and 1 lord.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 08:36:32


Post by: Jidmah


Kzraahk wrote:
Since our Princes can now take Warp Bolters... Are they worth it?


They cannot. See here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/744846.page


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 15:44:24


Post by: sennacherib


Interesting.
Just ran the math hammer on bloat mowers and daemon prince versus Vehicles.

By themselves a bloat mower isn’t all that good. However, when you pair them with a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator, things start to get good. They actually out perform a daemonprince with an ax when compared point to point Vs Vehicles, but only when paired with the prince.

I recently ran a arch contaminator prince and three bloat drones with plague spitters against a Guard army that was mostly vehicles. I nearly tabled him. If I added three more drones with mowers I can see it being a reL hassel to deal with.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 18:14:19


Post by: Continuity


Deck1026 wrote:
I am going to against a space wolf player this Friday (1000pts). Any strategy suggest? Don't want to lose this time:(.Thanks! Below is his list:

Spacewolf Patrol:
-----------------------HQ---------------------------------------------------
-Stormcaller with T armor
-Wolf guard battle leader on wolf
----------------------Troops------------------------------------------------
- Blood Claws with leader (9)
- Greyhunter with leader (9)+Wolf guard with storm bolter x 1
---------------------Elite----------------------------------------------------
-Lukas the trickster
-Wulfen with leader (5):
4x frost claws,1x storm shield with Thunder Hammer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A drop pod
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to use:
Death guard Outrider + Super heavy Aux:
Mortarion, 3 x FBD(2x Spitters,1x Fleshmower) and 1 lord.


You're taking mortarion against space wolves at just 1000 point? Come on man you're gonna faceroll him, give him a chance


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 18:40:57


Post by: Dew


 sennacherib wrote:
Interesting.
Just ran the math hammer on bloat mowers and daemon prince versus Vehicles.

By themselves a bloat mower isn’t all that good. However, when you pair them with a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator, things start to get good. They actually out perform a daemonprince with an ax when compared point to point Vs Vehicles, but only when paired with the prince.

I recently ran a arch contaminator prince and three bloat drones with plague spitters against a Guard army that was mostly vehicles. I nearly tabled him. If I added three more drones with mowers I can see it being a reL hassel to deal with.


Great to hear. I play a lot of Guard armies and I am planning to run a DP with 2 or 3 drone buddies to get in there and wreck face asap. I want several drones to be a buzzing pain in the ass


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 19:23:25


Post by: Rhyltran


 sennacherib wrote:
Interesting.
Just ran the math hammer on bloat mowers and daemon prince versus Vehicles.

By themselves a bloat mower isn’t all that good. However, when you pair them with a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator, things start to get good. They actually out perform a daemonprince with an ax when compared point to point Vs Vehicles, but only when paired with the prince.

I recently ran a arch contaminator prince and three bloat drones with plague spitters against a Guard army that was mostly vehicles. I nearly tabled him. If I added three more drones with mowers I can see it being a reL hassel to deal with.


Yeah, this is something that I pointed out earlieri n the thread but many just brushed it off. Daemon Prince with Arch-Contaminator + Fleshmower = Awesome force multiplier. No doubt the Plaguespitter bloat drones are probably our best setup but people shouldn't discount the flesh mower backed by a Daemon Prince.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/21 19:49:00


Post by: sennacherib


On average the bloat drone with death spitters only causes 1.92 hullpoints damage and maxes at at 2.1 damage if you roll 12 hits vrs a T7 3+ Vehicle with arch contaminator backing. It will only kill 3 marines on average.

By contrast a bloat mower with prince backup does 5.3 wounds to a Vehicle on average and kills 3.5 marines. They are significantly better against vehicles and slightly better against marines.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 17:27:59


Post by: pismakron


Plague marines are confirmed to get a price reduction.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 18:22:55


Post by: blackmage


yes 2 points less


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 19:13:47


Post by: Nightlord1987


Glad to see Plague Marines as cheap as they have ever been. Still.... Hard for me to fit them in most lists. Triple plasma is still the best way to run them?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 19:24:07


Post by: blackmage


also with a 2pts discount competitive lists wont play them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 20:14:47


Post by: Nightlord1987


[DOUBLE POST]


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 20:31:59


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Good days for my DG. I always run at least 2 squads of PM and they are getting cheaper and cheaper that edition They also got their ability back to give the champion Combi- or power weapons, with the FAQ. Seems like all the conversion work and magnetizing from last edition wasn't useless.
With only 17points I'm even tempted to try out a 20man squad supported by some of our Elite dudes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/22 22:28:09


Post by: Dr. Temujin


Didn't Blight Launchers go down in price, as well? If so, are they now something to consider in place of Plasma, especially in concert with the Arch-Contaminator WT?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 00:14:16


Post by: DarklyDreaming




Tha's amazing! I always played like the trait was not affected, but if you think about... all the information about a model should be in its datasheet, so the archcontaminator has 10' with the Helm, fantastic!
With the 2pts discount on PMs and 4pts discount on the blightlauncher (the rumors were right so far), the DG gunline supported by a Prince becomes almost mandatory.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 02:04:13


Post by: lucas


What are you guys finding as a good minimum for CSM battalions in your death guard lists? I'm mainly trying to get a sorceror and some anti-tank in my list, so what should I do?

Sorceror x2, cultists x3, and obliterators?

I've heard Alpha Legion to be good so the cultists can infiltrate, just unsure of what I should leave points for.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 03:12:14


Post by: Nightlord1987


lucas wrote:
What are you guys finding as a good minimum for CSM battalions in your death guard lists? I'm mainly trying to get a sorceror and some anti-tank in my list, so what should I do?

Sorceror x2, cultists x3, and obliterators?

I've heard Alpha Legion to be good so the cultists can infiltrate, just unsure of what I should leave points for.


I dont have much experience or tactical need for Sorcerers, but I've been bringing a cheap jump Lord for 100 points, and then oblits, Heldrakes, and a Slaanesh prince with the IW armor and Delightful agonies to double up on 2+ FNP princes.

One unit of Nurgle Oblits, one unit Slaanesh Oblits. The Lord can buff both Oblits in a double drop and the princes can buff their respective marks as need be.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 04:07:56


Post by: Tiberius501


So I have a couple more questions for you guys, as I'm not very good when it comes to rules:

1) What's a good dakka unit we have? I'm sort of struggling with damage output atm, my Plagueburst Crawlers are okay but they're pretty unreliable.
2) I know they're hardly strong but would swapping my 20 pox walkers out for cultists be a good idea, or are pox walkers worth it?
3) Are beasts of Nurgle good, and what role do they fill?
4) Mortarion always seems to only just make it into melee before he dies for me, killing only a couple of enemies. Apart from Warptime, is there some effective way of getting him into melee without getting wrecked? Currently he's a 500pt distraction in my army


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 04:23:05


Post by: sennacherib


1. Predators with las cannons or allied obliterators for anti tank. Dakka dreads with las ml are ok but get killed quick.
2.swap out you PM and add the cultists with the pox walkers. Use the dead walk on the pox walkers and the cloud of flies. They kill cultists. You get pox walkers. Win win.
3. Not sure.
4. Give him miasma of pestilence and then use 1 cp to give him warp time saving you from allying in a sorcerer. Not sure though since I don’t use mortarion in my lists.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 04:25:25


Post by: broxus


 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


Not entirely true. Predators do 5.08 wounds to tanks. Pbc do 3.82.
Pbc do in fact do about .38 wounds more to a tank than a defiler. Defiler however can re roll to hit and to wound for a whole phase for 1 cp bumping their damage output by a significant level. They are also punchier which makes them better in the back field to guard objectives, and their range is significantly longer.


Your math is wrong. Make sure you account for all three PBC weapons and account for the rerolling of ones for the mortar.

Against T7, 3+ save units a 4-las predator does 5.2 damage.
Against T7, 3+ save units a PBC does 4.5 damage.


http://www.mathhammer8thed.com




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 11:49:40


Post by: Tiberius501


 sennacherib wrote:
1. Predators with las cannons or allied obliterators for anti tank. Dakka dreads with las ml are ok but get killed quick.
2.swap out you PM and add the cultists with the pox walkers. Use the dead walk on the pox walkers and the cloud of flies. They kill cultists. You get pox walkers. Win win.
3. Not sure.
4. Give him miasma of pestilence and then use 1 cp to give him warp time saving you from allying in a sorcerer. Not sure though since I don’t use mortarion in my lists.


Thanks for the answers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 15:31:25


Post by: sennacherib


PBC
Morter (3.5 shots x .583 to hit)(.769 to wound with re roll)(.66 save) (2 damage)= 2.07 damage

Entropy cannon (2 cannons. X .583 to hit with rerollt)(.769 to wound with re roll)(3.5 damage) = 3.13 wounds.

Is there some mistake with my math. This was all vs a T7 3+ save vehicle.

I think you may have accounted for the number of hits the morter is getting wrong. I'm not sure though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


Not entirely true. Predators do 5.08 wounds to tanks. Pbc do 3.82.
Pbc do in fact do about .38 wounds more to a tank than a defiler. Defiler however can re roll to hit and to wound for a whole phase for 1 cp bumping their damage output by a significant level. They are also punchier which makes them better in the back field to guard objectives, and their range is significantly longer.


Your math is wrong. Make sure you account for all three PBC weapons and account for the rerolling of ones for the mortar.

Against T7, 3+ save units a 4-las predator does 5.185 damage.
Against T7, 3+ save units a PBC does 7.388 amage.

Against T8, 3+ save units a 4-las predator does 5.185 damage.
Against T8, 3+ save units a PBC does 5.625 damage.

http://www.mathhammer8thed.com




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 15:47:21


Post by: Rhyltran


 sennacherib wrote:
PBC
Morter (3.5 shots x .583 to hit)(.769 to wound with re roll)(.66 save) (2 damage)= 2.07 damage

Entropy cannon (2 cannons. X .583 to hit with rerollt)(.769 to wound with re roll)(3.5 damage) = 3.13 wounds.

Is there some mistake with my math. This was all vs a T7 3+ save vehicle.

I think you may have accounted for the number of hits the morter is getting wrong. I'm not sure though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
broxus wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.


Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.


PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.



In shooting PBC do more damage than defilers regardless of heroes. It also does more damage than a predator with 4-las cannons


Not entirely true. Predators do 5.08 wounds to tanks. Pbc do 3.82.
Pbc do in fact do about .38 wounds more to a tank than a defiler. Defiler however can re roll to hit and to wound for a whole phase for 1 cp bumping their damage output by a significant level. They are also punchier which makes them better in the back field to guard objectives, and their range is significantly longer.


Your math is wrong. Make sure you account for all three PBC weapons and account for the rerolling of ones for the mortar.

Against T7, 3+ save units a 4-las predator does 5.185 damage.
Against T7, 3+ save units a PBC does 7.388 amage.

Against T8, 3+ save units a 4-las predator does 5.185 damage.
Against T8, 3+ save units a PBC does 5.625 damage.

http://www.mathhammer8thed.com




Did you account for the heavy slugger? I only see math for the mortar and entropy cannons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 17:04:41


Post by: blackmage


someone ever tried larg units (8-9 models) of blightlord termies full plasma? how did they perform? thx


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 18:03:51


Post by: DarklyDreaming


The bigger the unit the better it is, considering you re goin to cast miasma and blades on them, and for their resilience, 45 pts is fantastic, you just have to DS them in the middle of the field, to be sure the enemy wont run away.
IMHO plasma are too risky, better to keep them cheap with a bolter or give them Prescience with an allied sorcerer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 18:34:53


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Bloat drone + fleshmower + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = profit?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 18:58:22


Post by: broxus


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bloat drone + fleshmower + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = profit?


Blades only works on infantry


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 19:16:49


Post by: Captyn_Bob


broxus wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bloat drone + fleshmower + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = profit?


Blades only works on infantry

Drat. Well just virulent blessing is good (and if the herald can get close enough, +1 strength won't hurt)

Looking for synergies...

Best is Death Guard possessed.
Veterans of the Long War + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = +3 to wound.
now if only possessed were any good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 20:01:58


Post by: blackmage


 DarklyDreaming wrote:
The bigger the unit the better it is, considering you re goin to cast miasma and blades on them, and for their resilience, 45 pts is fantastic, you just have to DS them in the middle of the field, to be sure the enemy wont run away.
IMHO plasma are too risky, better to keep them cheap with a bolter or give them Prescience with an allied sorcerer.

yes that's the plan, an allied sorcerer with warp time and preiscence, cheap is fine but just with bolters they cant do a lot to heavy armors, 10 of them 40 shots also with stratagem VOTLW cant hurt a lot veichles or MC's.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 21:39:03


Post by: Pandabeer


broxus wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bloat drone + fleshmower + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = profit?


Blades only works on infantry


It works on every DG unit with a CC plague weapon, look up the description in the codex. I used it on Mortarion to thrash Girlyman twice with those sweet sweet mortal wounds. It's also nice on lawnmower drones yes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 22:49:23


Post by: Captyn_Bob


ahhh had me doubting myself!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/23 22:58:54


Post by: gwarsh41


Captyn_Bob wrote:
broxus wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bloat drone + fleshmower + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = profit?


Blades only works on infantry

Drat. Well just virulent blessing is good (and if the herald can get close enough, +1 strength won't hurt)

Looking for synergies...

Best is Death Guard possessed.
Veterans of the Long War + blades of Putrefaction + virulent blessing = +3 to wound.
now if only possessed were any good.


I few pages back someone mentioned giving a surgeon the relic plague sword, blades of putrification, and then popping vets of the long war on them. If it's against space marine infantry, he will have a +3 to wound I think, with +3 doing an additional mortal wound, and +4 doing 2 mortal wounds.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/24 03:06:54


Post by: sennacherib


@ Rhyltrann I don’t bother with mathhammer for the heavy slugger vrs vehicles. The chances are very slim of even 1 wound and most of the time you have a better target. Infantry.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 01:16:27


Post by: MrVulcanator


Lord of Contagion is 100 points without wargear now. He might be worth using now.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 03:55:40


Post by: sennacherib


What do you think of the blight hauler.

I ran the math on it. They are twice as durable as a HelBrute vrs las Cannon fire and they are cheaper and faster. You can take units of three. Which has some limited benefits. They buff infantry units within 7”. I think they are ok. Anyone else have thoughts on these.

I’ve been using a trio of drones and a pair of winged princes to charge the enemy lines. Seems like 3 if these would give the ability to pressure enemy armor. Crack transports so the drones can fry the contents.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 04:10:34


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Soulburner bombard doubling in points. Normal soulburner up to 30.. eesh the dreads are looking less tastey


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 05:09:01


Post by: COLD CASH


Yeh got burned hard as far as those go just bought 2 contemptors, guess ill go normal builds and run double kheres and double claw with ectoplasma.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 07:24:54


Post by: broxus


 sennacherib wrote:
@ Rhyltrann I don’t bother with mathhammer for the heavy slugger vrs vehicles. The chances are very slim of even 1 wound and most of the time you have a better target. Infantry.


You should it is extra damage that does make a difference and you always do have the option to shoot at something else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 sennacherib wrote:
What do you think of the blight hauler.

I ran the math on it. They are twice as durable as a HelBrute vrs las Cannon fire and they are cheaper and faster. You can take units of three. Which has some limited benefits. They buff infantry units within 7”. I think they are ok. Anyone else have thoughts on these.

I’ve been using a trio of drones and a pair of winged princes to charge the enemy lines. Seems like 3 if these would give the ability to pressure enemy armor. Crack transports so the drones can fry the contents.


Biggest problem with the MBH is the PBC points reduction. Now it doesn’t seem to make any sense to take anything but PBCs. They have more durability and more firepower for almost the exact same cost. The big problem is the haulers weapon’s cost the same as the BS3 versions meaning they are overcosted by a significant amount. The melta and missile launchers should be 12pts cheaper making the MBH 130pts. The PBC’s entropy cannons are priced as BS4.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 10:36:01


Post by: mario88826


Hahah i called it back then ).

Plague Marines now 17 points, blight launcher 10 points, bubotic axe 5 points.

ABOUT time - we got proper troops now - and for reasonable points.

Also Lord of Contagion at 100 points ... without gear but with scythe its just steal now.

And Burst crawler is 10 points less.

But most importantly is that finally Deathshroud are not vastyl overpriced. I still kinda don't like they are so slow , but now they are not 75 points each at least ... (edit : now fully geared 60 points instead of 75 - honestly it's still a lot and more than some elite characters - but hey ... )

Edit 2:

After some consideration I see that your typical 2 blight launcher + plasma champion + 2 bolter dudes setup went from 137 points to 119 . That is massive improvement - and can say that they are worth it now.

Lord of Contagion now sits at 117 points with scythe - He may be worth taking now - he is credible threat where he appears and is still hard to remove ! No longer in shadow of always better Typhus. Price difference now is substantial. Typhus still very good ... but we kinda got some choice now.

Defiler/PBC - they were already not that bad after all. Can't complain 10 points less.

Deathshroud - if my eyes don't deceive me - they are 3 points less base now than Blightlords lol ... But they are still limited with weapon choices - so they are always sitting at 60 points 2 wound models. But I will play them now, because now or never haha. IF they make to combat, IF - they are deadly for sure.

Tallyman/Noxious BB - 5 points less ... i will take that - they were not stellar in performance.

Overral I'm quiet pleased. Especially with Plague Marines/Deathshroud/Lord changes. They were all overpriced as hell.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 12:24:38


Post by: XShadow


As was stated before, with Deathshrouds dropping down to 180 pts for 3, do you guys think they are now worth taking? I want to say yes. Still a tad pricey but a 45pt reduction is nice. Gives me an excuse to buy some finally. I already play 3 PBCs so I'm a happy camper.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 13:45:50


Post by: COLD CASH


My 3 PBC 3 foulspawn should arrive monday, very very happy now marines with plas and blight launchers are in a nice sweet spot.

Those EZY build cohort look fantastic now, i held off buying terms/shroud and 2 boxes make every squad for me(i have a spare LOC to make 3 shroud).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 16:08:23


Post by: blackmage


a question if an enemy unit is within 7" of two units affected by nurgle's gift they can take potentially 2 mw on 4+ or still just 1? thanks


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 16:20:34


Post by: Jidmah


The rule triggers once for every unit within 1" of a unit affected by Nurgle's Gift, no matter how many Lords of Contagion are providing the aura.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 16:29:30


Post by: blackmage


 Jidmah wrote:
The rule triggers once for every unit within 1" of a unit affected by Nurgle's Gift, no matter how many Lords of Contagion are providing the aura.

ok thx for explanation


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/25 23:09:42


Post by: COLD CASH


Guys is this correct Hellforged contemptor is now 103 + 60 + 11 for 174 points with double butcher and havoc Launcher? that is huge savings. Down from 217 points.

Also Hellforged contemptor +double chain claw+soulburner=218??

If it is i retract my other post this is an awesome buff.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 03:02:28


Post by: Zid


So happy with the points changes... Now I can utilize my Plague Marines more often!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 03:59:14


Post by: MrVulcanator


It'll be cool to squeeze in a few more of the elites, like the Surgeon and Tallyman.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 04:08:54


Post by: Marshal Loss


Still a pity that the Surgeon sucks, but overall I'm very happy with the changes. Looking forward to getting more use out of my Deathshroud.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 04:30:00


Post by: COLD CASH


Contemptor and dreadclaw are buffed to all hell!! Can anyone confirm the dreadclaw weapons are free? because that thing become so OP its not funny its a better foetid bloat drone at that points!!

I would buy 3 and drop all my bloat drones, and load them with marines or contemptors and suddenly the army has a very good chance of winning 1st turn regularly. and becomes a rediculous wall of T7 and above. The marines or dreads would sit back and let the claws assault every turn it would be ridiculous! with that 15" move and their flamer weapon you could conceivably position so that 3 dreadclaws could hit 3+ units each then assault and then use the foetid strategy of disengaging and repeat.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 08:19:46


Post by: Yoda79


Hi I m thinking to start a death guard army. Can someone help out? What would be a user competitive list and how should I start ? I got Mortarion from a paint job and I love the model. I also have ad mech and guard.

Any information and help welcomed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 21:30:08


Post by: broxus


 Yoda79 wrote:
Hi I m thinking to start a death guard army. Can someone help out? What would be a user competitive list and how should I start ? I got Mortarion from a paint job and I love the model. I also have ad mech and guard.

Any information and help welcomed.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743245.page


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/26 22:59:50


Post by: Yoda79


Thanks. Deathsroud bodyg. Worth it?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/27 05:00:00


Post by: broxus


 Yoda79 wrote:
Thanks. Deathsroud bodyg. Worth it?

At 225pts they were terrible. With the recent points cut they may become viable.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/27 11:07:26


Post by: blackmage


there are other ways to "protect" Mortarion, like play an aggressive list with bloated drones, termies and 2-3 DP, that way you hit their lines turn 1-2, hard to be focused on Morty only.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yesterday i played a mixed DG and AL list i got 2nd 5 points short from 1st place

DG battalion
DP, wings talons suppurating plate, general
Thypus
20+20+10 pox
6 blightlord termies 5 combiplasma 1 flail

super heavy
Mortarion

AL battalion
DP slaanesh, talons, wings
termy sorcerer, force staff, nurgle
30 cultists MoS 1 flamer
10+10 cultists MoN

for next tourmanent i m thinking about this (i cant use two times same detachment

DG outriders
DP, wings talons, suppurating plate, general
3 foetid bloated drones with plaguespitter
7 blightlord termies 6 combiplasma 1 flail

super heavy
Mortarion

AL battlion
DP, MoS, talons wings
termy sorcerer force stave
22 cultists
10+10 cultists

or

DG supreme command
3x Nurgle DP, wings, talons
thypus

super heavy
Mortarion

DG battalion
Nurgle DP, wing talons suppurating plate
Nurgle Dp, wings talons
3x20 poxwalkers
tallyman
im 28 points short with this one, I might take out 20 poxes and tallyman for another DG Dp, and 10 cultists, i just wanted avery resilient list which dont give easily 1st blood and cultists wont fit well in it.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/27 15:37:20


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 Yoda79 wrote:
Thanks. Deathsroud bodyg. Worth it?


You have to build part of the strategy around them (when they are not part of the strategy around Morty, and many will disagree with me on this last thing, because of the Skornergy in the movement).

What do you people think about the new cost of the Dreadclaw?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/27 17:49:53


Post by: gwarsh41


The ability to pop a helbrute in it is pretty dang awesome. With the increase of price on soulburners, the decimator might just be pretty nice with dual melee weapons. Lasher/fist helbrute in it would be pretty nice too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/27 18:18:04


Post by: Kzraahk


I'd love to try a Dreadclaw with marines and a few Blightspawns inside


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/28 21:50:24


Post by: COLD CASH


 gwarsh41 wrote:
The ability to pop a helbrute in it is pretty dang awesome. With the increase of price on soulburners, the decimator might just be pretty nice with dual melee weapons. Lasher/fist helbrute in it would be pretty nice too.


The contemptor has an overall massive price drop 30+ points, so its probably still alot better than a deci, though as a fast cheap dakka dread the deci still looks great imo.

174 points: double butcher contemptor+havoc
218 points double chainfist+double burner

What are the current costs of the deci version of those builds???

I posted a chapter approved DG list with 3 dreadclaws and it looked really good, in the list forum!! page2.

5man squad of marines with 2 blight 1 plasma, then allows any combination of 5 slots left for elites/lords/casters, then 1-2 pods for dreads. then suicide rush your dread claws forward to draw thier attn while whatever you dropped off sits back and unloads/positions etc.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/29 14:44:54


Post by: Wayniac


On another forum I wrote some brainstorming/musings on comparing Helbrutes, Myphitic Blight-Haulers and Plagueburst Crawlers. No math or anything, just basically random thoughts. I figured I'd repost it below just so others can see it. I might be completely off the mark, or maybe not, just my thoughts on it:
---
As of Chapter Approved, the Plagueburst Crawler is 146 points for the Plagueburst Mortar and 2x Entropy Cannons (I don't think the Rothail Volley Gun is worth taking; you want longer range so it doesn't have to move).

The Myphitic Blight-Hauler is 142 points for its locked configuration of Multi-melta and Missile Launcher (and Bile Spurt but that's largely irrelevant I think).

A Helbrute with Lascannon and Missile Launcher is 147 points for roughly the same statline as the Blight-Hauler (again, ignoring the Bile Spurt and its Gnashing Maw), minus the invulnerable and Disgustingly Resilient, but has 3+ BS and also ignores movement penalties (so is as reliable as 3 Blight-Haulers to get the 3+ BS). Also gets an additional strong anti-tank shot from the TL Lascannon, while the Blight-Hauler wants to be within 12" to get the bonus from its Multi-Melta. Howver, the Helbrute falls behind the Blight Hauler within 12" as the Blight Hauler has its extra attacks from the Bile Spurt, and is better in melee than an anti-tank Helbrute due to the Gnashing Maw.

A Helbrute equipped the same as the Blight-Hauler (again, minus the Bile Spurt and Gnashing Maw), so Multi-Melta and Missile Launcher, is only 124 points.

The Blight-Hauler also has the weird place of wanting to be up close (due to the Multi-melta and Bile Spurt), but is a fast moving vehicle in an otherwise slow army, that it also provides cover for if they are close to it.

So going off of this, what I think a good rule of thumb might be this:

* If you only want anti-tank, the Helbrute with TL Lascannon and Missile Launcher is better than the Blight Hauler; longer range and you don't need to take 3 to get the more reliable shots (although 2-3 would still be nasty)

* If you want a jack-of-all-trades unit that has versatility, then I think the Blight-Hauler starts to shine; it has anti-tank (slightly less than the Las/ML Helbrute), it's relatively tanky so will divert enemy fire and it has the cover bonus that is IMHO a cherry on top; you should not try to always have it, but if you can get it then it's nice. Unfortunately I think being a "jack of all trades" drops its usefulness when talking about "competitive" since you really want to specialize, and it does not, since the Crawler is tankier and the Las/ML Helbrute is more reliable at anti-tank. That's not to say it's bad, but it kind of sits in between as a mobile weapons platform that can also absorb shots. The 4+ BS really hurts it here, I think. If it was 3+ (i.e. you didn't need 3 of them) it might push ahead.

* If you want more resilience, then the Crawler shines. The thing with the Crawler is that it seems to be in a weird spot because it has mixed weapon types which is normally a no-no; the mortar doesn't require LOS so you want to park it behind a building or other terrain piece and bombard the enemy, but the rest of its weapons do and if you move out to take a shot, you're hitting on 5s. Using it as a main tank still lets you target things that you don't have LOS to, but it's not an artillery platform like, say, a Basilisk or Griffon is where you park it in some ruins and it never moves. You want it to have clear shots to targets, and use the LOS ignoring mortar to make it so enemies can't hide, rather than so you can hide.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/29 15:38:53


Post by: Bremon


I don’t think you ever want a crawler behind a building. The mortar isn’t so you can hide; it’s so the enemy can’t. Crawlers are stupidly durable. You want them tanking shots so weaker stuff doesn’t have to.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/29 17:13:53


Post by: Kaiyanwang


Bremon wrote:
I don’t think you ever want a crawler behind a building. The mortar isn’t so you can hide; it’s so the enemy can’t. Crawlers are stupidly durable. You want them tanking shots so weaker stuff doesn’t have to.


I agree with that. Is not a basilisk and one should put in the context of an army designed, at least theoretically, to slowly march toward the enemy and engage it at mid-close range.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/29 18:18:01


Post by: Dew


Don't forget DG have that stratagem that the Hellbrute can fire all weapons twice. Maybe that makes a difference in comparison? Also, how would a Defiler compare? Too expensive to compare to those others fairly?

I'm looking to fill anti armor slots in my army atm so I'm interested


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/29 20:30:46


Post by: Wayniac


Well with the points decrease, a defiler with just a Battle Cannon and Autocannon is 155 points. Compared to the Crawler it has 2 more wounds, 1 less toughness, 1 less movement, 1 more attack, no Disgustingly Resilient but heals 1 wound each turn. Still has the 5++ invulnerable.

I'm still not seeing it being worth it compared to the others. It's a cool model, but you're paying more for not much better IMHO. It's decent in combat with the scourge, but then it goes up to 167 points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 00:19:05


Post by: Kaiyanwang


Wayniac wrote:
Well with the points decrease, a defiler with just a Battle Cannon and Autocannon is 155 points. Compared to the Crawler it has 2 more wounds, 1 less toughness, 1 less movement, 1 more attack, no Disgustingly Resilient but heals 1 wound each turn. Still has the 5++ invulnerable.

I'm still not seeing it being worth it compared to the others. It's a cool model, but you're paying more for not much better IMHO. It's decent in combat with the scourge, but then it goes up to 167 points.


One would argue that the price paid with the scourge is a greater gain for the Defiler in the 155 --> 167 upgrade.
The thing is still victim of its schizophrenic design but there is not that much that can be done, one would argue that these are the best core rules for him since forever.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 01:07:28


Post by: Dr. Temujin


I'm also wondering about anti-armor in my list. In a mostly mono-DG list (with AL jump sorcerer and cultists) I made, I was able to fit in two Haulers and two Crawlers. It also has an Arch-Contaminator Termi-Lord with a combi-melta, but that's to ward off any Alpha-strikes. Between the two multi-melta platforms and the mortars, would this be sufficient to match vehicles (save for a tank list)?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 06:42:21


Post by: melbards


I'm starting a DG army and bought tons of dark imperium stuff off ebay. I feel like I have a good concept for a 1500 pt starter army.
Spoiler:

BATTALION DETACHMENT
-----------------------------------

CHAOS LORD
plasma pistol, powerfist

MALIGNANT PLAGUE CASTER

10 CULTISTS
auto guns

5 PLAGUE MARINES
3 plasma guns

5 PLAGUE MARINES
2 Blight launchers

5 BLIGHTLORD TERMINATORS
Flail, 4 Bubonic axes, 3 combi-bolters, 1 blight launcher

1 HELLBRUTE
Missile launcher, Twin Lascannon

OUTRIDER DETACHMENT
---------------------------------------

DAEMON PRINCE of NURGLE
wings, Hellforged sword, Arch contaminator, Suppurating plate

BLOAT DRONE
2 plaguespitters, probe

BLOAT DRONE
2 plaguespitters, probe

BLIGHT HAULER
Missile launcher, multi-melta, bile spurt, gnashing maw

7 CP total

Now the plan would be to use a "Hammer and anvil" style strategy with this force. The Hammer consists of the Daemon prince with wings who will follow the two Bloat drones on a flank using arch-contaminator to upgrade their lethality (2d6 auto-hits, re-roll wounds) meanwhile the two squads of plague marines and squad of cultists, Hellbrute, plague caster and Lord advance up the middle (slow but steady- the anvil) The Blight hauler will accompany them giving the plague marines added protection and provide some firepower. The Lord will mitigate the 3 plasma guns and his own plasma pistol and the plague caster will buff and add extra offensive power. The Blightlords will deep strike likely in the midfield to be able to stay in the battle and be a threat all game or even if the need arises used to deppstrike in the enemy backfield to take out any worthy threats.

At 2000 points I would likely trade the plague caster for Typhus and stick him with the blightlords. Also add a Rhino with another 5 Plague marines, a foul blightspawn and biologus putrifier for a mobile grenade nuking unit.

Any critiques or advice on this list? I have yet to play an 8th edition game yet so in theory and in practice I might be way off......






Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 12:25:46


Post by: Wayniac


More I think, more the hauler pulls ahead. The issue with the Helbrute is that it dies really easily, even if it's better at shooting. The Crawler is great, but can never really move or it can't hit worth crap, and combined with so many things having the -1 to hit > 12" rule, you're often hitting awful anyways. So there is, in fact, a good bit of overlap between the Hauler and the Crawler, both being tanky, resilient vehicles that pack relatively strong weaponry.

The Hauler has to close in quicker (but moves faster), ignores the to-hit penalty for moving and shooting, and has no degrading profile so its stats don't get worse, unlike the crawler. Points-wise you're looking at roughly the same; 146 for the Crawler with Entropy Cannons (post-Chapter Approved;Rothail Volleygun is still IMHO not worth taking) and 142 for the Hauler. The Crawler now has longer range and one extra power shot at range while the Hauler shines more at 12" because it gets the Bile Spurt and is way better in combat due to the Gnashing Maw. Also, your force is advancing up the field as it is, so there is a little bit more synergy with the Hauler since it A) wants to move forward to get in range for its multi-melta, and B) can freely move forward with the rest of the army, while the Crawler cannot.

One point though to add yet another decision to this is if one is playing the ITC Champions missions, the Recon secondary mission requires you to have a unit in each quarter of the table to score it. In this case, and only in this case, the Crawler can push ahead slightly because it will not need to move with the rest of the army while the Hauler will be pressing forward. However, Recon is also an optional secondary mission, so you do not have to select it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 13:42:38


Post by: sennacherib


I’ve done the math on the blight hauler. It’s has pretty low damage output and it takes significantly,less damage to kill one. The plague burst crawler really shines when you back it up with a warlord with arch contaminator.

I have been running lists that are designed to kill tanks as the local meta sometimes favored armor heavy meta. I’ve been allying in CSM so I can use obliterators. I’ve also been using the Daemonfordge strategem on the defiler. Those things are awesome. Also, they are tougher to kill than a land raider and can easily punch their way out of a melee. Statistically speaking though, the twin heavy bolster is a better anti tank weapon than the auto cannon.

I also usually run a twin las missile Launcher HelBrute. I lurk in the back field and occasionally get to use the twin shot strategem. When it works out it’s pretty awesome. I also have a twin hb fist with heavy flamer HelBrute for anti infantry work.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 14:19:35


Post by: gwarsh41


melbards wrote:
I'm starting a DG army and bought tons of dark imperium stuff off ebay. I feel like I have a good concept for a 1500 pt starter army.

snip


Swap the DP sword for malefic talons, the massive increase in attacks makes up for the loss of 1 dmg. Talons are better in just about every single situation. I generally don't bother with special weapons on the blightlords. The blight launcher is the same as the DG one, personally I think it should be stronger as it is on terminators. You don't have very much anti tank, if you can find room (maybe after chapter approved discounts) to give them all combi meltas and axes with 1 flail, it is a very reliable way to run them. Other people like plasma, for the 18" rapid fire as well. I would drop the blightlords with melta on an enemy flank as close as possible. In the middle of the field, they will be shot by almost everything, but on a flank, they have a good chance of being out of range, and LoS blocked by your opponents vehicles. Then you are in your opponents face and don't have to slug up the board with that sad 4" move. Their aura makes those axes very useful in CC, against most everything. Personally it is tough for me to bring a plague caster, I'm always drawn to a sorcerer with some way to deep strike, so I can buff the terminators (but I really really like terminators) giving them -1 to be hit, or +1S and T is pretty sweet.

All in all it is a good list, most important change for me is talons on the prince, it's just too good to pass up.

---

I've also put together a list to help me get my feet wet after a month break from gaming, and to help me prep for an Apoc game I am bringing 10k to. I wanted to try out some of the shenanigans I've seen around and see how well plague marines will hold up with the point cost reduction.

Spoiler:


HQ:
Chaos lord with jump pack: fist, combi plas
Daemon prince with talons, wings, plate
Typhus (Dude is so good, it's hard for me to leave home without him)

Troops:
12 cultists with autoguns
9 plague marines (sgt with fist/plasma, 2 blight launchers, flail)
9 plague marines (sgt with fist/plasma, 2 blight launchers, flail)

Elite:
Foul Blightspawn
Plague Surgeon with Plaguebringer (1CP spent)
Hellbrute with scourge/heavy bolter

Heavy:
2 Plagueburst crawlers with entropy cannons and sluggers

Transport
2 rhinos, havoc launcher, extra bolter

Flyer
Fire Raptor Gunship with heavy bolters and hellstrike missiles (60pt less is insane!)




I looove typhus, but I feel like he is out of place because he has nothing to drop in with. I could drop him for a bloat drone to run around with the DP. I wish I could squeeze in a plague hulk, they are awesome fire magnets, but no DG means it would be an aux detachment.
The surgeon is a little tailoring, I know my opponents and I know I'll be facing marines. Earlier in the thread I saw some shenanigans with him I have been wanting to try. You use vets of the long war and cast blades of putrefaction on him while he has the sword. Now you have +3 to wound astartes infantry, you do 1 mortal wound per +3, and 2 mortal wounds for each +4, he could put out 6 mortal wounds and 3 power sword wounds... though compared to a foul blightspawn, who can melt pretty much anything in the game... crap... plague surgeon stinks just a bit doesn't he?
Guess I could drop 2 cultists and just bring another blightspawn.
Blightspawns + plague marines in rhinos, chaos lord hangs out near PBC, jump pack is if I would rather have him with the plague marines. Fire raptor does what I fire raptor does, and shoots more bullets than it has business shooting.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/11/30 19:14:22


Post by: SilverAlien


Honestly, if you trim the plague marines down to a more basic loadout (2 5 man squads with the launchers and flails, no plasma fist in the sarges) you could fit in a unit of cheaper deathshroud, who are now actually worth using. They close to the right balance of cost, durability, and lethality to work as a distraction carnifex and supplement typhus nicely. Blightlord termis can also work, tougher but a little less scary, but a min unit actually costs a little more even without any upgrades. I'm personally looking forward to trying it myself.

I'm looking forward to using more plague marines again myself. Particularly with the double blight launcher, 105 points isn't bad for tough troops with solid firepower. I at least feel like they have a role in my army again which is nice. Well, besides the grenade stratagem.

On a different note, as far is it goes crawlers seem to be the best choice by far for anti tank. They are so cheap for what they do, outperforming most of our other antitank options despite being cheaper and/or tougher. Dreadnoughts are also solid, but mainly the forgeworld ones, default helbrute is honestly not putting out much more damage for cost than the crawler but dies much much easier.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/02 16:07:11


Post by: Dew


I do like the idea of having 3 little Haulers buzzing around hunting tanks. Sprinkling cover saves around while they do so. Like Wayniac said, they feel a little more synergistic.
And when they've reached the end of their rope there is always the auto detonate stratagem to use as well for one final F you


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/04 18:07:12


Post by: gwarsh41


SilverAlien wrote:
Honestly, if you trim the plague marines down to a more basic loadout (2 5 man squads with the launchers and flails, no plasma fist in the sarges) you could fit in a unit of cheaper deathshroud, who are now actually worth using. They close to the right balance of cost, durability, and lethality to work as a distraction carnifex and supplement typhus nicely. Blightlord termis can also work, tougher but a little less scary, but a min unit actually costs a little more even without any upgrades. I'm personally looking forward to trying it myself.

I'm looking forward to using more plague marines again myself. Particularly with the double blight launcher, 105 points isn't bad for tough troops with solid firepower. I at least feel like they have a role in my army again which is nice. Well, besides the grenade stratagem.

On a different note, as far is it goes crawlers seem to be the best choice by far for anti tank. They are so cheap for what they do, outperforming most of our other antitank options despite being cheaper and/or tougher. Dreadnoughts are also solid, but mainly the forgeworld ones, default helbrute is honestly not putting out much more damage for cost than the crawler but dies much much easier.


Done and done! Thinking about it, I guess the 2 flails are plenty of CC oomph, and I have a load of good shooty from the fire raptor and tanks. Really looking forward to fielding this list now!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/05 02:04:22


Post by: Nightlord1987


Does anyone see a use for the Lord of Contagion now that he has a pts drop? The 4+ invul is handy. I usually use a DP as Warlord, but the LoC is cheaper and I always kinda like cheap throw away HQs as my Warlord to disrupt Enemy Target Priorities.

What Warlord trait would work best on the LoC?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/05 04:09:05


Post by: XShadow


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a use for the Lord of Contagion now that he has a pts drop? The 4+ invul is handy. I usually use a DP as Warlord, but the LoC is cheaper and I always kinda like cheap throw away HQs as my Warlord to disrupt Enemy Target Priorities.

What Warlord trait would work best on the LoC?


If you want him to be a force multiplier you can go for Arch contaminator. If you want him cheap and throw away revoltingly resilient would keep him alive longer. Or the one that reduces damage by 1. Even healing a wound a player turn wouldn't be that bad.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/05 06:34:55


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a use for the Lord of Contagion now that he has a pts drop? The 4+ invul is handy. I usually use a DP as Warlord, but the LoC is cheaper and I always kinda like cheap throw away HQs as my Warlord to disrupt Enemy Target Priorities.

What Warlord trait would work best on the LoC?


I really like the healing a wound per player turn. Those wounds are hard to get through. Sure if the enemy can one-round him it doesn't do anything, but more often than not they don't and the damage they did turns to waste as he heals it away, which is incredibly demoralising.

Also bear in mind that beyond the improved invulnerable, the LoC gets so much more from Stratagems.
He can roll on the boon table, while the DP can't. Some of those boons are very tasty. 7" move LoC, add one to all saving throws, (very lol with the Suppurating Plate).
You can give him VotLW. Wounding T5 on 2+ with a reroll of 1s...
He can also be healed with Grandfathers blessings. Opponent could take 5 wounds off him and when his turn rolls around again, he's back to full 6 wound complement, which is insane.

Depending on your meta reducing dmg (Rotten constitution) by 1 seems strong, but I find it kinda skornegy with Disgustingly resilient. Tainted Regeneration is like a free 2CP Grandfathers Blessings that stacks with the same.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/05 13:55:33


Post by: sennacherib


Revoltingly resilient is WAY better than healing 1 per turn.

Think about it this way. If you take enough wounds your dead anyways so future healing won’t matter. Revoltingly resilient works against all incoming damage including mortal wounds and works in both player turns etc.

I ran a prince with revoltingly resilient and supturating plate in several recent games. He has yet to die. In one game vrs tau he soaked up two turns of fire from the whole army and walked away with scratches.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/05 14:03:18


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 sennacherib wrote:
Revoltingly resilient is WAY better than healing 1 per turn.

Think about it this way. If you take enough wounds your dead anyways so future healing won’t matter. Revoltingly resilient works against all incoming damage including mortal wounds and works in both player turns etc.


Interested in this. Note Revoltingly Resilient Doesn't work against mortal wounds.
Others have said that the BRB trait Tenacious Survivor is better than RR but I'm not convinced.
Tainted Regeneration works in both turns which sounds good, but odds are you will take all your damage in one phase, so also not convinced. There are also others ways of regenerating.
I actually quite like Rotten Constitution, helps against those big Damage weapons.
Hulking Physique just seems like it's always going to be worse than the other options.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/05 20:04:08


Post by: sennacherib


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
Revoltingly resilient is WAY better than healing 1 per turn.

Think about it this way. If you take enough wounds your dead anyways so future healing won’t matter. Revoltingly resilient works against all incoming damage including mortal wounds and works in both player turns etc.


Interested in this. Note Revoltingly Resilient Doesn't work against mortal wounds.
Others have said that the BRB trait Tenacious Survivor is better than RR but I'm not convinced.
Tainted Regeneration works in both turns which sounds good, but odds are you will take all your damage in one phase, so also not convinced. There are also others ways of regenerating.
I actually quite like Rotten Constitution, helps against those big Damage weapons.
Hulking Physique just seems like it's always going to be worse than the other options.


Never noticed that Revolting resilience didn’t work on mortal wounds. Hmmm

Unless my math hammer is wrong...
Tenacious survivor only increases survivability by 10.95%
Revoltingly resilient increases survivability by 16.6% vs all but mortal wounds
Tainted regeneration works unless you’ve taken enough wounds to kill you, I would always rather not take damage than plan on trying to heal.
Rotten reduces damage from big hits like a las Cannon by about 28% on average. Depends on what wounds your warlord the most.
Hulking physique helps sometimes by giving you a 16% less chance of being wounded. Most of the time it won’t help though since your already T5. Unless you are being swarmed with Str 3 or Str 10 attacks, this trait seems pretty worthless.

So it looks like revolting>tenacious >hulking. Rotten constitution is very situational. Against small arms it does nothing. Against big stuff it works ok.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 06:15:41


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


The reason I don't like Rotten is that you get a DR save against that wound anyway. Revolting is preferable.

I don't find my Warlord gets 1 rounded that often, and in the case he does, often the preventative traits wouldn't have prevented enough anyway. The recursion benefit in the case where he isn't one rounded is so so strong I always consider Tainted. Sure you can use Grandfathers Blessings on a LOC, but likely you want to stack them anyway.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 17:23:47


Post by: buddha


As I'm thinking about comp DG lists what is everyone finding working? We have a fairly limited list but if you were to go pure DG for an event what would you include as a must have?

I'm thinking at least two bloat drones and poxwalkers to start with.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 19:25:43


Post by: blackmage


pox, thypus Dp with suppurating plate and 2-3 drones and or crawlers, tallyman is also fine if you going to play lot of poxwalkers.

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Malefic talon, Plague Wind, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster: Curse of the Leper, Putrescent Vitality

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Curse of the Leper

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Typhus: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 15x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Shotgun

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Tallyman: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
this is a list im going to test soon for a tournament. I might take out a malignant and get a 2nd Dg battalion instead of supreme command so i will have 9 cp's instead of 7 and or save some points and use crawlers instead of drones (but lost fly is a pain).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 19:48:59


Post by: SilverAlien


 buddha wrote:
As I'm thinking about comp DG lists what is everyone finding working? We have a fairly limited list but if you were to go pure DG for an event what would you include as a must have?

I'm thinking at least two bloat drones and poxwalkers to start with.


I recommend focusing on the poxwalkers myself, they have good synergy options and horde armies work well at the moment. I'd recommend supplementing the zombie horde with tallymen, who dramatically up their damage and therefor let them recover models faster, and the deredeo dreadnought with hellfire veil, which is what our blight haulers want to be. The 5++, 5+++, and rerolling their normal awful WS all make them a rather unpleasant threat. The tallyman can also help a bit with cp while the deredeo has the butcher cannon+twin heavy bolter combo, great given our army generally lacks any good long range anti infantry shooting.

You can also mix in chaos cultists, keep them near a unit of poxwalkers with the dead walk again stratagem going and their fragility ceases to be an issue. Can be helpful if you want another troop choice but don't want to shell out the 60-90 minimum points for a decent poxwalker squad.

Drones are only really worth using in melee configuration, and even that's mostly to use fly and their weapon to threaten tanks the enemy leaves even slightly open. They aren't bad, but I feel you can probably find better places to put your points after the first. They struggle to kill hordes efficiently and really only shine on elite infantry or as the aforementioned can opener on a tank your enemy left slightly exposed. Even then, there is no real reason to use a drone for this job as opposed to a demon prince, unless you find filling fast attack slots more important than HQ slots.

I'll again push plagueburst crawlers as our best anti tank and ridiculously tougher with it, just screen them properly and your opponent will be hard pressed to remove them. Chaos lord babysitter is also recommended but not required.

Typhus is good, deepstrike him and a terminator bodyguard (either works, still leaning towards blightlords myself) early for some nasty psychic and melee threat, and if your poxwalkers manage to get in range before the enemy kills them enjoy the nice buff as well.

You can also use the plague marine grenade combo, that's nasty enough to qualify for competitive and gives you another source of mortal wounds if you run up against an army like chaos brimstone horror spam that depends on invulnerable saves.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 20:47:13


Post by: blackmage


I'll again push plagueburst crawlers as our best anti tank and ridiculously tougher with it, just screen them properly and your opponent will be hard pressed to remove them. Chaos lord babysitter is also recommended but not required.

why pbc is our best anti tank?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 20:51:40


Post by: Yoda79


Fairly new but I'm trying to assemble as first list this!

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [87 PL, 1532pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines [7 PL, 105pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [7 PL, 105pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

+ Elites +

Deathshroud Terminators [11 PL, 180pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlets
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlets

Noxious Blightbringer [4 PL, 65pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Curse of the Leper, Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

++ Total: [111 PL, 2002pts] ++


Then eventually make. More agreesive one as i aquire the models for something close to this!!

Spoiler:

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [25 PL, 432pts] ++

+ HQ +

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]

+ Elites +

Deathshroud Terminators [11 PL, 180pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlets
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlets

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

Plague Surgeon [4 PL, 65pts]: Plaguebringer

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [60 PL, 1103pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Hellforged sword, Wings

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines [7 PL, 105pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

Plague Marines [7 PL, 105pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

+ Fast Attack +

Myphitic Blight-haulers [21 PL, 426pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, 2005pts] ++


Seems like a supreme command could also work in my second aggrsive list but I didn't manage to be happy with it.

Superatiing on DM. On first one us arch contam on chaos Lord for my pdc on second revolting for extra warlord pwn.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If someone could answer some questions.

For putrescent vitally says buff death guard infantry unit

And Myphitic blight-haulers again death guard infantry units for the cover bonus.

What exactly pass as the specific infantry units cause I v seen buffing Mortarion or DP so what units I LL be able to buff or give the extra cover?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 21:05:28


Post by: Luciferian


 Yoda79 wrote:

If someone could answer some questions.

For putrescent vitally says buff death guard infantry unit

And Myphitic blight-haulers again death guard infantry units for the cover bonus.

What exactly pass as the specific infantry units cause I v seen buffing Mortarion or DP so what units I LL be able to buff or give the extra cover?


Units you can buff with that ability must have both "Infantry" and "Death Guard" keywords. Mortarion is not "Infantry" so you wouldn't be able to buff him.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 21:08:14


Post by: Yoda79


well yes but you cant cast putrescent vitally on DP or Mortarion iv seen so many videos doing so no? Am i wrong?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 21:28:13


Post by: blackmage


SilverAlien wrote:
 buddha wrote:
As I'm thinking about comp DG lists what is everyone finding working? We have a fairly limited list but if you were to go pure DG for an event what would you include as a must have?

I'm thinking at least two bloat drones and poxwalkers to start with.


I recommend focusing on the poxwalkers myself, they have good synergy options and horde armies work well at the moment. I'd recommend supplementing the zombie horde with tallymen, who dramatically up their damage and therefor let them recover models faster, and the deredeo dreadnought with hellfire veil, which is what our blight haulers want to be. The 5++, 5+++, and rerolling their normal awful WS all make them a rather unpleasant threat. The tallyman can also help a bit with cp while the deredeo has the butcher cannon+twin heavy bolter combo, great given our army generally lacks any good long range anti infantry shooting.

You can also mix in chaos cultists, keep them near a unit of poxwalkers with the dead walk again stratagem going and their fragility ceases to be an issue. Can be helpful if you want another troop choice but don't want to shell out the 60-90 minimum points for a decent poxwalker squad.

Drones are only really worth using in melee configuration, and even that's mostly to use fly and their weapon to threaten tanks the enemy leaves even slightly open. They aren't bad, but I feel you can probably find better places to put your points after the first. They struggle to kill hordes efficiently and really only shine on elite infantry or as the aforementioned can opener on a tank your enemy left slightly exposed. Even then, there is no real reason to use a drone for this job as opposed to a demon prince, unless you find filling fast attack slots more important than HQ slots.

I'll again push plagueburst crawlers as our best anti tank and ridiculously tougher with it, just screen them properly and your opponent will be hard pressed to remove them. Chaos lord babysitter is also recommended but not required.

Typhus is good, deepstrike him and a terminator bodyguard (either works, still leaning towards blightlords myself) early for some nasty psychic and melee threat, and if your poxwalkers manage to get in range before the enemy kills them enjoy the nice buff as well.

You can also use the plague marine grenade combo, that's nasty enough to qualify for competitive and gives you another source of mortal wounds if you run up against an army like chaos brimstone horror spam that depends on invulnerable saves.


a thing like this

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Malefic talon, Plague Wind, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Curse of the Leper

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Typhus: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists: 15x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

vanguard +1cp

Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought
. Left Arm: Butcher cannon
. Right Arm: Butcher cannon

Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought
. Left Arm: Butcher cannon
. Right Arm: Butcher cannon

Tallyman: Plasma pistol

Malignant Plaguecaster: Curse of the Leper, Putrescent Vitality



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/06 21:47:36


Post by: Luciferian


 Yoda79 wrote:
well yes but you cant cast putrescent vitally on DP or Mortarion iv seen so many videos doing so no? Am i wrong?


Morty has the keyword "Monster" instead of "Infantry", so you're not supposed to be able to cast Putrescent Vitality on him. Maybe they were casting Blades of Putrefaction? Otherwise they made a mistake or cheated.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 08:40:58


Post by: Iago40k


instead of the malignant plaguecaster I would always always always take Necrosius.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 09:27:41


Post by: blackmage


Iago40k wrote:
instead of the malignant plaguecaster I would always always always take Necrosius.

right ,usually i wont use FW models, sometimes you cant use them in tournaments


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 15:08:32


Post by: sennacherib


If you want to go competitive it’s probably best to play soup.

Alpha legion Berzerkers infiltrate up front. Alpha legion oblits to kill enemy armor and troops while you DG advance. Alpha legion sorcerer supplies warp time and either prescience or death hex.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 15:27:44


Post by: Captain Garius


My best wins have had the same units in common. Poxwalkers with Typhus and a DP with bloat drone escort. I have had great success with a massive slow moving wall of Plague marines screened by Poxwalkers with DP and drones causing a distraction. I just picked up some more models though, so will be trying the PBC and Morty soon. I have a feeling that PBC, Bloat Drones, DP, Morty, and Poxwalkers will be the common additions for competetive armies.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 16:11:55


Post by: blackmage


 sennacherib wrote:
If you want to go competitive it’s probably best to play soup.

Alpha legion Berzerkers infiltrate up front. Alpha legion oblits to kill enemy armor and troops while you DG advance. Alpha legion sorcerer supplies warp time and either prescience or death hex.

i guess i prefer infiltrare noise marines, berzy are great but i see them a bit too much single shot.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 16:32:16


Post by: spoonlamp


I'm slowly going to be building a DG army from the Dark Imperium boxed set as a starting point. I've already been kindly donated a lot of the same DG again from a friend who bought the same box plus I have a couple of Helbrutes and I bought Typhus so I've got a good start. Would love some pointers from the experts though?

1) I'm not seeing much love for the Defiler and I'm thinking of adding one for long range anti armour while keeping the Helbrutes for attention grabbing melee charges. Why no love for the Defiler? Did it just get a points drop recently?

2) Meanwhile the Poxwalkers amble up the field with Typhus and the Plaguecaster behind them and the Drones from the boxed set acting as fast reserves to counter or harass as required.

3) I think next up I need to look at augmenting the HQ and getting a DP - how are guys modelling a Nurgle DP with wings??

and finally...

4) I get that the fluff says DG are tough infantry that walk into their enemies faces and melt it with plague, but am I better to play to that strength (Pox Walkers, Typhus, other synergy with supporting buff characters) OR should I be looking to plug the gaps and try to throw speed into it or tons of long range bombardment with a few of the "new massive mortar tank thingy"?

Sorry for wot, any advice gladly received.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 20:09:09


Post by: SilverAlien


@blackmage

Contemptor dreadnoughts are also good, but poxwalkers really like that hellfire girl considering they lack any normal armor/invulnerable save. But if you want more dedicated shooting that's a perfectly reasonable way to go, and I see you are avoiding plagueburst crawler so that may be warranted

I am curious about the number of psykers, do you really feel those are all warranted? I might take a barebones chaos lord in place of one or two just to cut down on price, have him baby sit the dreads to boost their accuracy in case the daemon princes get out of range.

Also, given you have an abundance of troops and HQ, why not go double battalion? Set the poxwalkers in 4 units of 15, add 5 cultists split them in two units of 10. Nets you an extra command point, and you can trim an HQ choice or two if you choose.

 blackmage wrote:
I'll again push plagueburst crawlers as our best anti tank and ridiculously tougher with it, just screen them properly and your opponent will be hard pressed to remove them. Chaos lord babysitter is also recommended but not required.

why pbc is our best anti tank?


The entropy cannon loadout was already getting roughly as many wounds per point compared to the predator (our second best) even before the point cut. After the point cut its probably better or the same against most targets. But mostly it's ungodly tough for how cheap it is. An invulnerable save, DR, a wound and toughness 8, all while being cheaper than a normal predator. It's simply heads and tails above the other options in toughness and generally matches or beats other options in firepower, at least in the codex. The FW stuff, particularly the dreadnoughts, can beat them in firepower but rarely match hem in durability point for point.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 20:20:41


Post by: blackmage


the few times i ve seen pbc played they used like ram , seldom they kept it fixed in place they sent around burning stuff with plaguesèpitter and grabbing obj.hit on 4+ is unreliable.
About double batt ur right, usually i play bloated drones not hellforged dreddies.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, Wings

Necrosius the undying

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Poxwalkers: 15x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 15x Poxwalker

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Typhus: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Poxwalkers: 15x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 15x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Tallyman: Plasma pistol

+ fast support +

Foetid bloat drones 2x plaguespitters

Foetid bloat drones 2x plaguespitters

Foetid bloat drones 2x plaguespitters
(or 3 plagueburst? or 3 contemptors with double butcher?)

what about this?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 21:40:11


Post by: gwarsh41


I've been running 2 or 3 PBC with a jump lord hanging out with them. At about 100pt with a special CC weapon, he can give that re-roll to the PBC, and if/when the enemy gets close, quickly move around to support the rest of your army. I generally have a plate DP with wings run off and do his own thing. Rarely does his buff reach other units aside from drones that buzz around with him to soak overwatch and harass vehicles.

I would never bring flamers on the PBC Bloat drones do it better.

I think with that many DPs in your list, Bloat drones are going to be more valuable than plagueburst or contemptors. They can keep up with the DP, shield them from shots, soak overwatch, and charge targets that would shoot at you on the next turn when your opponent falls back, or you kill whatever the DP charged. You would have 6 fast moving targets moving up the field, toss miasma on the lead drone. Remember that Blades will give you the +1 to wound, but not the mortal wounds for the DP, as DP can't bring plague weapons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/07 23:48:47


Post by: Nightlord1987


I've been running a mix of Typhus, Tallyman, a plague caster (who has been pretty useless) 1 unit of pox walkers, and 5-6 small units of Cultists. Drop the Dead Walk on the Poxes, and send Cultists forward and outward into shooting or combats. I had a unit of pox walkers survive some 50+ genestealer wounds, fell back to shoot the stealers, and regained my numbers. Easily gained triple my number. Started with 19. Ended with 45 after taking heavy casualties all game.

Granted, my group will eventually catch on to beating the list, But so far it's been a fun theme.

I also add a detachment of Iron Warriors for Oblits, and CSM Strategems (and their Tactical Objectives). I bring a cheap Jump Lord for 100 pts, and a second Prince with the IW relic armor, Delightful Agonies Slaanesh power, and the +1 wound, 6+fnp warlord trait. I really like DG warlord traits, but their Tactical Objective cards are terrible.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 00:01:20


Post by: SilverAlien


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I would never bring flamers on the PBC Bloat drones do it better..


I agree, the flamers are a bit of a waste on the pbc, drones do it better. With the pbc you just kinda accept the mediocre accuracy, but honestly it's tough enough it'll still end up being one ahead on the damage chart compared to a predator for a lot of the game. The number of lascannon shots on average needed to knock a pbc down to 5w (which is 10 assuming SM accuracy) will put a predator on its last wound also hitting on a 5+, about to die. Thus the accuracy isn't really that big a deal, so long as you aren't trying to beat the enemy at the alpha strike game. Which we will never win, so don't, our firepower and mobility are mediocre at best, this is an army that only works when your turtle up and invest in high durability to wear the enemy down.

 blackmage wrote:
Foetid bloat drones 2x plaguespitters

Foetid bloat drones 2x plaguespitters

Foetid bloat drones 2x plaguespitters
(or 3 plagueburst? or 3 contemptors with double butcher?)

what about this?


Well, with your army comp I'd lean towards either pbc with entropy cannons or contemptors, as you have plenty of anti infantry but the demon princes are you only real anti tank. Though you could go with fleshmower drones if you want to go all in on melee, or take more demon princes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 00:04:04


Post by: Luciferian


What with the CA points changes I shook up my list a bit. I know it's kind of one-dimensional but I went with what would be fun to convert and paint and I'm a huge part of the way through that so I'm kind of stuck with the general theme, at least. Although I still have lots and lots of poxwalkers, plague marines, bloat drones etc. to build if I need to. Would really appreciate any comments.

Super Heavy Auxiliary
Mortarion

Battalion
Daemon Prince
-Wings, Plate, Talons
Malignant Plague Caster

Chaos Cultists
-13x Auto Gun, 1x Flamer
Chaos Cultists
-13x Auto Gun, 1x Flamer
Plague Marines
-2x Blight Launcher, 2x Flail, 9x Bubotic Axe, 1x Plague Sword/Bolt Pistol

Foul Blightspawn
Foul Blightspawn
Biologus Putrifier
Noxious Blightbringer
Tallyman

3x Foetid Bloat Drone
-Plague Spitters

If I'm not mistaken that should be 1999 points.

Like I said, the plan is a bit one-dimensional. The Drones, DP and Morty all rush in and do as much damage as possible while the large unit of Plague Marines and all of the characters march slowly up the field, screened by the Cultists and the stratagem that makes them untargetable. I have a feeling they'll make it pretty far with all of the other stuff taking priority for the opponent. When they get in range use the grenade trick if possible, then the Plague Marines charge in and the characters spam grenades.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 00:10:59


Post by: SilverAlien


That's an interesting usage of that stratagem, let us know how it goes I'm curious if it's worth the investment. I'm a bit skeptical I don't think the PM will do enough damage to justify that many cp being used on them, but I've been wrong before.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 00:20:30


Post by: Luciferian


It will heavily rely on CP use for sure, but if all goes well I will have 2d3 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks and 18 S6 AP-2 attacks per fight phase with the Plague Marines, not to mention rerolling hits and wounds with +2 to wound and mortal wound generation. I can't imagine anyone even bothering with the Plague Marines at least until Morty is dead, and even then they'll have 28 ablative cultist wounds and anyone who charges them won't fight first as usual. Hopefully it can work.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 10:24:22


Post by: Jidmah


 spoonlamp wrote:
3) I think next up I need to look at augmenting the HQ and getting a DP - how are guys modelling a Nurgle DP with wings??


I'll just buy the regular daemon prince and paint is armor to match my DG's scheme.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 10:39:48


Post by: Ix_Tab


 Luciferian wrote:

Like I said, the plan is a bit one-dimensional. The Drones, DP and Morty all rush in and do as much damage as possible while the large unit of Plague Marines and all of the characters march slowly up the field, screened by the Cultists and the stratagem that makes them untargetable. I have a feeling they'll make it pretty far with all of the other stuff taking priority for the opponent. When they get in range use the grenade trick if possible, then the Plague Marines charge in and the characters spam grenades.


While the grenade stratagem seems to be one of the better stratagems in the book I don't see many circumstances when it will be usable in pure DG. The opponent has to leave a target within 11" of enough marines to make it worthwhile which doesn't seem very likely. It is a little disheartening that this is another case where access to warptime makes a big difference to DG potential.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 12:05:38


Post by: spoonlamp


 Jidmah wrote:
 spoonlamp wrote:
3) I think next up I need to look at augmenting the HQ and getting a DP - how are guys modelling a Nurgle DP with wings??


I'll just buy the regular daemon prince and paint is armor to match my DG's scheme.


Good enough for me!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 14:46:55


Post by: gwarsh41


I've got a mourngul from fantasy as one of my malefic talons DPs. Doesn't look like death guard, but it does look like a big scary ghost, and Nurgle digs fear.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 19:14:00


Post by: blackmage


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I've been running a mix of Typhus, Tallyman, a plague caster (who has been pretty useless) 1 unit of pox walkers, and 5-6 small units of Cultists. Drop the Dead Walk on the Poxes, and send Cultists forward and outward into shooting or combats. I had a unit of pox walkers survive some 50+ genestealer wounds, fell back to shoot the stealers, and regained my numbers. Easily gained triple my number. Started with 19. Ended with 45 after taking heavy casualties all game.

Granted, my group will eventually catch on to beating the list, But so far it's been a fun theme.

I also add a detachment of Iron Warriors for Oblits, and CSM Strategems (and their Tactical Objectives). I bring a cheap Jump Lord for 100 pts, and a second Prince with the IW relic armor, Delightful Agonies Slaanesh power, and the +1 wound, 6+fnp warlord trait. I really like DG warlord traits, but their Tactical Objective cards are terrible.

may i ask what armies you faced and with what results? was competitive armies or just casual ones? thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Captain Garius wrote:
My best wins have had the same units in common. Poxwalkers with Typhus and a DP with bloat drone escort. I have had great success with a massive slow moving wall of Plague marines screened by Poxwalkers with DP and drones causing a distraction. I just picked up some more models though, so will be trying the PBC and Morty soon. I have a feeling that PBC, Bloat Drones, DP, Morty, and Poxwalkers will be the common additions for competetive armies.

DG rely a lot on CaC or short range firepower, do you think this can be really successfull in a game which award who shoot a lot and longer?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/08 20:31:37


Post by: Luciferian


Ix_Tab wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:

Like I said, the plan is a bit one-dimensional. The Drones, DP and Morty all rush in and do as much damage as possible while the large unit of Plague Marines and all of the characters march slowly up the field, screened by the Cultists and the stratagem that makes them untargetable. I have a feeling they'll make it pretty far with all of the other stuff taking priority for the opponent. When they get in range use the grenade trick if possible, then the Plague Marines charge in and the characters spam grenades.


While the grenade stratagem seems to be one of the better stratagems in the book I don't see many circumstances when it will be usable in pure DG. The opponent has to leave a target within 11" of enough marines to make it worthwhile which doesn't seem very likely. It is a little disheartening that this is another case where access to warptime makes a big difference to DG potential.


True, but I am going to have to get them in charging distance anyway so if I have the chance I'll take it. Otherwise, like I said, the characters will just spam grenades individually. It is kind of hard not to find some way to take warptime - I could probably fit in a small Alpha Legion detachment somehow, but I want to try going pure DG first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 spoonlamp wrote:


3) I think next up I need to look at augmenting the HQ and getting a DP - how are guys modelling a Nurgle DP with wings??


I made mine out of a Plague Drone from the AoS starter, some tyranid legs and one of the DP arms:



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/09 20:16:50


Post by: blackmage


someone ever played a large blob or plague marines, with melee weapons and supported by stratagems and pisonic? i tried them today a 17 men unit with 9 bubotic axes 1 flail 1 plasma gun on champion and 2 blight launchers, supported by a Dp rerolling 1's and thypus with archcontaminator (plus cloud of flies and blades of putrefacion) they performed great, who else played them and have some feedbacks to share? thanks.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/09 20:25:02


Post by: Luciferian


If you look at my posts just above that's pretty much exactly what I plan to do. 14 PM with 9 Bubotic Axes, 2 Flails and 2 Blight Launchers, with a DP and Tallyman for hit and wound rerolls, Plaguecaster for Blades of Putrefaction and Putrescent Vitality, and stratagems like Veterans of the Long War. Good to hear that yours did well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/09 21:46:39


Post by: blackmage


 Luciferian wrote:
If you look at my posts just above that's pretty much exactly what I plan to do. 14 PM with 9 Bubotic Axes, 2 Flails and 2 Blight Launchers, with a DP and Tallyman for hit and wound rerolls, Plaguecaster for Blades of Putrefaction and Putrescent Vitality, and stratagems like Veterans of the Long War. Good to hear that yours did well.

i use thypus and a normal sorcerer for preiscence

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Typhus: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma gun
. 3x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers: 18x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers: 18x Poxwalker

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings: Malefic talon
. Tzeentch: Warptime

Sorcerer: Bolt pistol, Force stave, Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Tzeentch
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Tzeentch
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Tzeentch
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion: Blades of Putrefaction, Curse of the Leper, Miasma of Pestilence


that's what i played


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/09 23:43:29


Post by: Luciferian


Looks like a pretty solid list. Man does it suck that we don't get warptime or prescience. I don't want to give up my drones or characters!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/10 08:19:15


Post by: Baconjuice


Hi, a while ago I posted an army lista here and wrote a little about my thoughts on Dreadclaws and Poxwalkers. I got no replys there so I'm gonna copypaste it here since I'd like to hear some input from more experienced players.


What comes to Dreadclaws themselves, on paper they are bonkers. Deepstriking flying Rhino that shoots heavy flamers on steroids and ties pesky enemies in CC. Combine that with the fact that the rest of my army is flying 15" a turn, suddenly I can take my troops with me and hit the enemy with everything on turn 2.

I am still in the process of acquiring the models but on paper the idea of dropping the Poxwalkers feels like a no-brainer. Instead of using the gimmicky strat of undying horde of Cultists Walkers and Typhus footslogging through the battlefield for three turns, burning all your CP and costing more points and relying on you going first, I get to drop the right in front (or even better, behind) my enemies. Typhus gets to fight once in a while instead of going 5" a turn and being 175pt buff aura. And if your opponent commits on taking down all your Walkers before they get to CC good for you, that's a lot of fire power used on 120pts worth of chaff instead of going on Mortarion or Drones. And lastly in case your opponent either ignores them or fails to take them all down you can pop Dead Walk Again on turn 2, walk next to your opponents infantry line and let the rest of your army do the heavy lifting, suddenly your one lone Poxwalker turns into a horde surrounding all of his army.


What do you guys think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/10 10:21:43


Post by: blackmage


 Luciferian wrote:
Looks like a pretty solid list. Man does it suck that we don't get warptime or prescience. I don't want to give up my drones or characters!

i know that's why i use alpha legion detachment, without warp time mortarion become less dangerous.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/10 15:42:21


Post by: Wayniac


I hate doing the alpha legion "Nurgle Insurrection" list just to get warptime.

I found out yesterday Blightlords are amazing. I played 1500 points against the new Blood Angels. Opponent had a min/maxed army with lots of MSU, two battalions, and 15 death company with librarian, lemartes and priest. He wiped out a unit of 19 poxwalkers first turn. I teleported in Blightlords equipped cheaply with 1x flail, 1x blight launcher, 1x combi-plasma, 2x combi-bolter, 3x axe 1x sword. Gave them Blades of Putrefaction and Putrescent Vitality and used Veterans of the Long War. With mortals on 5+ and extra -1 AP on 4+, wiped out 14 of his death company in one round. That same unit later ate the priest, lemartes and a captain. They are going to be a mainstay in all my lists I think. My Deathshroud didn't perform quite as well, but I did teleport them into my opponent's deployment area (he had mostly a static gunline) so they wiped out a tactical squad, drew the rest of his army's firepower and were wiped out, but they served their purpose.

Moving forward I'm thinking of taking 3 drones: I've been using two with 2x Plaguespitters, I'm thinking I should add a third with Fleshmower to back them up. My 2k list still needs some work as I have about 250 points left to spend and I have no idea on what. The current list is (going off of using ITC rules so using less than 20 models to deny 2 points for the secondary objective that requires you to wipe out a unit of 10+ models):

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [95 PL, 1748pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [14 PL, 250pts]
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 108pts]: 18x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 108pts]: 18x Poxwalker


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/10 18:07:28


Post by: blackmage


blightlord must charge then not always they get it without warptime, and yes they are great and durable but if they cant get into melee well... equipped like that they wont worth they cost i played them in large units+lord for rr and they performed nice but i played 9 with 8 plasma 1 flail

what about this?

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion: Blades of Putrefaction, Curse of the Leper, Miasma of Pestilence

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence

Typhus: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 3x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord: Balesword, Bolt pistol

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier: Plague knife

Blightlord Terminators
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma

Tallyman: Plasma pistol
Morty and Dp aggressively move forward, termies supporting them wreaking havocs, the slower infantry bubble spread on the table grabbing obj and bringing plagues in charge range.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/10 21:31:16


Post by: Luciferian


That is also pretty similar to my list, but in my opinion poxwalkers are not worthwhile unless you go all out with Typhus or Necrosius, and I would rather have Blight Drones than Blightlords.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/10 22:19:33


Post by: blackmage


poxwalkers grows up when cultists die and protect plague marines,i think this list wont need more than 20,it is not based on them


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 14:31:16


Post by: Wayniac


I think that going all out in the Blightlords is potentially a trap. Going all combi-plasma is a ton of points in a unit. I prefer to go cheaply on them to keep the cost down. Use them to take out key infantry, either with shooting or with combat depending on what you are shooting. Take advantage of the 18" rapid fire range that Death Guard get to pump a ton of bolter shots into something, and then charge in and tear it apart if you buff them. You aren't putting a huge number of points into a unit that can still be reasonably killed, but they are providing enough of a threat to deal with what you want.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 15:57:53


Post by: Typhusjnr


Baconjuice wrote:
Hi, a while ago I posted an army lista here and wrote a little about my thoughts on Dreadclaws and Poxwalkers. I got no replys there so I'm gonna copypaste it here since I'd like to hear some input from more experienced players.


What comes to Dreadclaws themselves, on paper they are bonkers. Deepstriking flying Rhino that shoots heavy flamers on steroids and ties pesky enemies in CC. Combine that with the fact that the rest of my army is flying 15" a turn, suddenly I can take my troops with me and hit the enemy with everything on turn 2.

I am still in the process of acquiring the models but on paper the idea of dropping the Poxwalkers feels like a no-brainer. Instead of using the gimmicky strat of undying horde of Cultists Walkers and Typhus footslogging through the battlefield for three turns, burning all your CP and costing more points and relying on you going first, I get to drop the right in front (or even better, behind) my enemies. Typhus gets to fight once in a while instead of going 5" a turn and being 175pt buff aura. And if your opponent commits on taking down all your Walkers before they get to CC good for you, that's a lot of fire power used on 120pts worth of chaff instead of going on Mortarion or Drones. And lastly in case your opponent either ignores them or fails to take them all down you can pop Dead Walk Again on turn 2, walk next to your opponents infantry line and let the rest of your army do the heavy lifting, suddenly your one lone Poxwalker turns into a horde surrounding all of his army.




What do you guys think?


Unless I am mistaken can you only take 10 models in a dread claw? I am not sure 10 models is enough to justify the dreadclaw points cost.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 16:00:57


Post by: blackmage


the main problem is.... in current 40k many top armies runs veichles (at least in etc circuit) and with str 4 for combibolter you cant touch them, if you want take advantage of 18" with movement of 4" then dream on to charge something valuable...If i must then choose something else i play obliterators 3 of them cost 195 and do tons of damage more then 5-6 combi bolters blighlords (242 pts ), imho


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 16:02:27


Post by: Typhusjnr


I wanted to check how people placed models added to a poxwalkers squad via curse of the poxwalkers? I managed to kill 10 guard models and used the 10 poxwalkers to daisy chain halfway across the board by spacing them 2 inches a part .Seemed legit to me but wanted to check as was very powerful .


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 16:04:41


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Typhusjnr wrote:
Baconjuice wrote:
Hi, a while ago I posted an army lista here and wrote a little about my thoughts on Dreadclaws and Poxwalkers. I got no replys there so I'm gonna copypaste it here since I'd like to hear some input from more experienced players.


What comes to Dreadclaws themselves, on paper they are bonkers. Deepstriking flying Rhino that shoots heavy flamers on steroids and ties pesky enemies in CC. Combine that with the fact that the rest of my army is flying 15" a turn, suddenly I can take my troops with me and hit the enemy with everything on turn 2.

I am still in the process of acquiring the models but on paper the idea of dropping the Poxwalkers feels like a no-brainer. Instead of using the gimmicky strat of undying horde of Cultists Walkers and Typhus footslogging through the battlefield for three turns, burning all your CP and costing more points and relying on you going first, I get to drop the right in front (or even better, behind) my enemies. Typhus gets to fight once in a while instead of going 5" a turn and being 175pt buff aura. And if your opponent commits on taking down all your Walkers before they get to CC good for you, that's a lot of fire power used on 120pts worth of chaff instead of going on Mortarion or Drones. And lastly in case your opponent either ignores them or fails to take them all down you can pop Dead Walk Again on turn 2, walk next to your opponents infantry line and let the rest of your army do the heavy lifting, suddenly your one lone Poxwalker turns into a horde surrounding all of his army.



What do you guys think?


Unless I am mistaken can you only take 10 models in a dread claw? I am not sure 10 models is enough to justify the dreadclaw points cost.




My biggest problem with dreadclaws and poxwalkers is you can't put the 'start of movement phase' strategems you want on them until the turn after they have deployed.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Typhusjnr wrote:
I wanted to check how people placed models added to a poxwalkers squad via curse of the poxwalkers? I managed to kill 10 guard models and used the 10 poxwalkers to daisy chain halfway across the board by spacing them 2 inches a part .Seemed legit to me but wanted to check as was very powerful .


Its in one of the FAQs (Rulebook). new models added to a unit can be placed within coherency from another model which was in the unit at the start of the phase and not within 1" of an enemy model. No daisy chaining.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 16:08:23


Post by: spoonlamp


 blackmage wrote:
the main problem is.... in current 40k many top armies runs veichles (at least in etc circuit) and with str 4 for combibolter you cant touch them, if you want take advantage of 18" with movement of 4" then dream on to charge something valuable...If i must then choose something else i play obliterators 3 of them cost 195 and do tons of damage more then 5-6 combi bolters blighlords (242 pts ), imho


But Death Guard don't get obliterators you'd have to take them as a separate detachment. They wouldn't get the 18" advantage cos they're not DG - or am I missing something?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 16:15:45


Post by: blackmage


Wayniac wrote:
I think that going all out in the Blightlords is potentially a trap. Going all combi-plasma is a ton of points in a unit. I prefer to go cheaply on them to keep the cost down. Use them to take out key infantry, either with shooting or with combat depending on what you are shooting. Take advantage of the 18" rapid fire range that Death Guard get to pump a ton of bolter shots into something, and then charge in and tear it apart if you buff them. You aren't putting a huge number of points into a unit that can still be reasonably killed, but they are providing enough of a threat to deal with what you want.


the main problem is.... in current 40k many top armies runs veichles (at least in etc circuit) and with str 4 for combibolter you cant touch them, if you want take advantage of 18" with movement of 4" then dream on to charge something valuable...If i must then choose something else i play obliterators 3 of them cost 195 and do tons of damage more then 5-6 combi bolters blighlords (242 pts ), imho


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 spoonlamp wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
the main problem is.... in current 40k many top armies runs veichles (at least in etc circuit) and with str 4 for combibolter you cant touch them, if you want take advantage of 18" with movement of 4" then dream on to charge something valuable...If i must then choose something else i play obliterators 3 of them cost 195 and do tons of damage more then 5-6 combi bolters blighlords (242 pts ), imho


But Death Guard don't get obliterators you'd have to take them as a separate detachment. They wouldn't get the 18" advantage cos they're not DG - or am I missing something?

alpha legion oblys stay at 24" throw 12 hits str 7-9 ap -1-3 d 1-3 and get -1 to be hitand last but not least they can shoot twice if marked slaanesh so....


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 16:25:33


Post by: Wayniac


I don't see the problem; Blightlords aren't meant to go after vehicles anyways, they go after infantry. If you want to wreck vehicles, take Deathshroud.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 19:40:14


Post by: Nightlord1987



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Typhusjnr wrote:
I wanted to check how people placed models added to a poxwalkers squad via curse of the poxwalkers? I managed to kill 10 guard models and used the 10 poxwalkers to daisy chain halfway across the board by spacing them 2 inches a part .Seemed legit to me but wanted to check as was very powerful .



Hmmm. I've had this question also. I haven't daisy chained... Seems like a cheeky thing to do, but was wondering the official ruling. I've been playing it as adding to the unit, but no further out than the farthest model. Kinda like how pivoting a vehicle isn't supposed to give you extra movement.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 21:20:09


Post by: buddha


Has anyone had any competitive success with blightlord terminators? I'm thinking a base unit with combi-bolters and axes could be a perfect unit to teleport next to a flying DP as a hammer unit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 21:22:40


Post by: Jidmah


Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the
battle (e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability).
Where are those models set up?

A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed
anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model
and still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit
that was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase
in which the new model was created. Note that if you
cannot set up a new model on the battlefield because
there is no room, it is simply not set up.

Source: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

So yes, you can get some "free movement" out of it, but no more than 2"+pox walker base per phase.
You cannot daisy-chain models created during the same phase, but when you use the "The Dead Walk again" stratagem you can add one "row" for each phase in which infantry is killed near them. Most likely you'll only add models during shooting, psychic phase, fight phase and moral phase though, as abilities that kill unit during movement and charge are rare.

Most of the time it's not any more powerful than using Grandfather's Blessings to "rebirth" a plague marine and increase their charge distance by 3".


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 21:30:40


Post by: Wayniac


 buddha wrote:
Has anyone had any competitive success with blightlord terminators? I'm thinking a base unit with combi-bolters and axes could be a perfect unit to teleport next to a flying DP as a hammer unit.


This is exactly my plan to use them with (my normal squad loadout is outlined previously). I Have yet to play them in a truly "competitive" environment yet as it's not really my interest.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 21:59:01


Post by: blackmage


Wayniac wrote:
 buddha wrote:
Has anyone had any competitive success with blightlord terminators? I'm thinking a base unit with combi-bolters and axes could be a perfect unit to teleport next to a flying DP as a hammer unit.


This is exactly my plan to use them with (my normal squad loadout is outlined previously). I Have yet to play them in a truly "competitive" environment yet as it's not really my interest.

as i said above in a truly competitive enviroment, in my experience blightlord with only bolters havent the punch needed for a elite unit like that, 40 hits at str 4 seems a lot but they are not. If you find a full mechanized eldar 3-4 waves, with a basic 5 men squad what you do with combolters, nothing, against marines in cover how many dead you think to get? more or less two? for 223 pts? for me isn't fair. if i want keep just pure death guard blightlords are fine, or obliterators wins, they are less durable but just 3 of them wreak havocs against anything and cost just 195. i played tournaments with both of them. Bligthlord have the superior melee power (with blades of putrefaction and VOTLW they can kill almost anything), but they must get into worthwile melees, not always so easy. then i love blightlord and how durable they are when i play Dg i like play them, but always tried plasma squad.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/11 22:57:40


Post by: Nightlord1987


 Jidmah wrote:
Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the
battle (e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability).
Where are those models set up?

A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed
anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model
and still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit
that was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase
in which the new model was created. Note that if you
cannot set up a new model on the battlefield because
there is no room, it is simply not set up.

Source: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

So yes, you can get some "free movement" out of it, but no more than 2"+pox walker base per phase.
You cannot daisy-chain models created during the same phase, but when you use the "The Dead Walk again" stratagem you can add one "row" for each phase in which infantry is killed near them. Most likely you'll only add models during shooting, psychic phase, fight phase and moral phase though, as abilities that kill unit during movement and charge are rare.

Most of the time it's not any more powerful than using Grandfather's Blessings to "rebirth" a plague marine and increase their charge distance by 3".



So 2 inches from TDW Pox unit in the phase for all of them, not individually. Makes sense. I was imagining some scenario where 5 guys gives a 10 inch conga line of movement. A 2 Inch bump isnt as bad,


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 09:17:26


Post by: spoonlamp


 blackmage wrote:

alpha legion oblys stay at 24" throw 12 hits str 7-9 ap -1-3 d 1-3 and get -1 to be hitand last but not least they can shoot twice if marked slaanesh so....


I need to read moar rules - that is some excellent dakka


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 09:24:57


Post by: Xirax


My DG army got some battle experience last sunday. They were disgustingly resilient against WE and BA. MvP was daemon prince of nurgle with wings, suppurating plate, 4+ DR WT. IT was sick how it denied a 16 damage from the DC dread's blood talons in the last turn and secured a tie for me.

Also worth mentioning that BA player's stormraven with twin assault cannon, twin heavy bolter and 2x hurricane bolters shot my 5man plague marines squad which was on the open trying to secure the comet from the open war mission. SR shoots 50 bullets/turn with those guns and it did it in two turns in a roll. So 100 shots from the SR inside the rapid fire range killed total of 2 plague marines

T5 is awesome!

In the melee BA had the advantage, because of the red thirst +1 to wound CT. then the plague marines were a lack luster and the buffed 7 attack, 4 dam s10 -4ap flying librarian dreadnought took foul blightspawn, biologus putrifier and couple melee PM's in a multi-charge. I killed ~7 DC on the charge I they got into DC blob, but when remaining DC started swinging PM got wiped, first the DC and then the multi-charging librarian dread.

Against WE we got a crazy open war, +1 attack to every model in the game and no no man's land between the deployment zones. 6 objectives and one might be the supply cache which is the only victory condition. After the above game setup that favored WE I was quite sure that it'll be a rough game. In the end I lost only 1 PM squad. Smite spam and above daemon prince of nurgle were beasts. Took out the heldrake. Smite dropped Kharn. 3 units of zerkers got tons of attacks and more attack from the double tap, then 1 attack from the mission and 1 attack from the butcher's nails. but still only 1 5 PM squad died to their attacks. rapid firing plasma from plasma squad's within chaos lord's buff were great as well. Had two 3x plasma squads moving with a lord with fugaris helm and plasma pistol & balesword.

My 7man melee PM squad threw the 7x blight grenades, but have to say S4 wasn't that great, so took like 2-3 zerkers with the whole strat and biologus putrifier combo. Foul blightspawns plague sprayer were a downer, because even with CP reroll best I got was S6 with maybe two times I managed to get in range with it.

Foetid bloat-drone was as resilient as always.

T4 supply cache was finally discovered, dunno what happens in that mission if you don't get the 6 roll before T5 ends,, Enemy had two helbrutes like 30"+ away and I was already sitting with my melee PM on it. WE had also maybe one wounded exalted champion on table, so he shook hands.

When counting power levels, I got fewer and I had a Ruse-card in hand, which would have let me bring from reserves any one died unit Oh, you killed my super resilient DP. guess what, it's coming back at full strength. Well, never needed it really.

Had
DP with wings, suppurating plate, 4+ DR
Malignant plaguecaster
Chaos lord, plasma pistol, balesword, fugaris helm

5man PM 3x plasma
5man PM 3x plasma
7man PM flail, mace & axe, axe & knife, PF & plaguesword, 3 dual knives

Biologus putrifier, plaguebringer
foul blightspawn
tallyman

chaos rhino

foetid bloat-drone, plaguespitters

In either games I didn't see a problem that my threat range was so short. Although I didn't play against gunlines and my enemy wanted to get close too.

Man, that 100 shots 2 dead PM will be remembered for long


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 09:36:57


Post by: blackmage


Xirax wrote:
My DG army got some battle experience last sunday. They were disgustingly resilient against WE and BA. MvP was daemon prince of nurgle with wings, suppurating plate, 4+ DR WT. IT was sick how it denied a 16 damage from the DC dread's blood talons in the last turn and secured a tie for me.

Also worth mentioning that BA player's stormraven with twin assault cannon, twin heavy bolter and 2x hurricane bolters shot my 5man plague marines squad which was on the open trying to secure the comet from the open war mission. SR shoots 50 bullets/turn with those guns and it did it in two turns in a roll. So 100 shots from the SR inside the rapid fire range killed total of 2 plague marines

T5 is awesome!

In the melee BA had the advantage, because of the red thirst +1 to wound CT. then the plague marines were a lack luster and the buffed 7 attack, 4 dam s10 -4ap flying librarian dreadnought took foul blightspawn, biologus putrifier and couple melee PM's in a multi-charge. I killed ~7 DC on the charge I they got into DC blob, but when remaining DC started swinging PM got wiped, first the DC and then the multi-charging librarian dread.

Against WE we got a crazy open war, +1 attack to every model in the game and no no man's land between the deployment zones. 6 objectives and one might be the supply cache which is the only victory condition. After the above game setup that favored WE I was quite sure that it'll be a rough game. In the end I lost only 1 PM squad. Smite spam and above daemon prince of nurgle were beasts. Took out the heldrake. Smite dropped Kharn. 3 units of zerkers got tons of attacks and more attack from the double tap, then 1 attack from the mission and 1 attack from the butcher's nails. but still only 1 5 PM squad died to their attacks. rapid firing plasma from plasma squad's within chaos lord's buff were great as well. Had two 3x plasma squads moving with a lord with fugaris helm and plasma pistol & balesword.

My 7man melee PM squad threw the 7x blight grenades, but have to say S4 wasn't that great, so took like 2-3 zerkers with the whole strat and biologus putrifier combo. Foul blightspawns plague sprayer were a downer, because even with CP reroll best I got was S6 with maybe two times I managed to get in range with it.

Foetid bloat-drone was as resilient as always.

T4 supply cache was finally discovered, dunno what happens in that mission if you don't get the 6 roll before T5 ends,, Enemy had two helbrutes like 30"+ away and I was already sitting with my melee PM on it. WE had also maybe one wounded exalted champion on table, so he shook hands.

When counting power levels, I got fewer and I had a Ruse-card in hand, which would have let me bring from reserves any one died unit Oh, you killed my super resilient DP. guess what, it's coming back at full strength. Well, never needed it really.

Had
DP with wings, suppurating plate, 4+ DR
Malignant plaguecaster
Chaos lord, plasma pistol, balesword, fugaris helm

5man PM 3x plasma
5man PM 3x plasma
7man PM flail, mace & axe, axe & knife, PF & plaguesword, 3 dual knives

Biologus putrifier, plaguebringer
foul blightspawn
tallyman

chaos rhino

foetid bloat-drone, plaguespitters

In either games I didn't see a problem that my threat range was so short. Although I didn't play against gunlines and my enemy wanted to get close too.

Man, that 100 shots 2 dead PM will be remembered for long

play some cultists and a big blob of Pm's with cloud of flies and you wont worry of what opponent has... he cant target them


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 16:47:29


Post by: gwarsh41


 spoonlamp wrote:
 blackmage wrote:

alpha legion oblys stay at 24" throw 12 hits str 7-9 ap -1-3 d 1-3 and get -1 to be hitand last but not least they can shoot twice if marked slaanesh so....


I need to read moar rules - that is some excellent dakka


Every single time I bring a CSM detachment, I forget to give them a legion... I need to get on my game.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 17:02:44


Post by: Razerous


How exactly does this Death Guard grenade spam work, the one that produces lots of mortal wounds?

Or has this found to be a false promise aha


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 19:33:58


Post by: Nightlord1987


Razerous wrote:
How exactly does this Death Guard grenade spam work, the one that produces lots of mortal wounds?

Or has this found to be a false promise aha


Big unit of plague Marines and the grenade guy. Then the Strategem, plus VOTLW. (I was gonna say add Blades of Putrefaction, but I think that's Fight Phase only) Added bonus for arch contaminator warlord nearby for some extra rerolls.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 19:43:08


Post by: Dew


Yeah blades is only fight phase.

Add Foul Blightspawn for extra boom too


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/12 23:10:26


Post by: Razerous


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Razerous wrote:
How exactly does this Death Guard grenade spam work, the one that produces lots of mortal wounds?

Or has this found to be a false promise aha


Big unit of plague Marines and the grenade guy. Then the Strategem, plus VOTLW. (I was gonna say add Blades of Putrefaction, but I think that's Fight Phase only) Added bonus for arch contaminator warlord nearby for some extra rerolls.
Good good, just trying to learn the intricacy's for a friend.

The grenade guy? I didn't realise Death Guard had VotLW. I thought they just had Death to the False Emperor doo-thingy. Annd finally what does Arch Contaminator do (please & thank you!)

For context I bought the codex for this friend but I only had the chance to skim quickly before the drive home.