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Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/13 05:24:26


Post by: Nightlord1987


The biologus purifier is an Elite character model that buffs the blight grenades all plague Marines carry. He increases strength and damage of grenades, and any 6+ to wound causes a mortal wound, in addition to the normal damage. You then combine him a big unit of plague Marines, and the Blight Bombardment strategem that allows every plague marine in the unit to throw a grenade, rather than just one model. Add the VOTLW strategem to add +1 to wound, effectively getting mortal wounds on 5+ now. Arch contaminator is a warlord trait to reroll failed wounds with Plague weapons of which Blight Grenades are considered.

Normal Plague weapons allow rerolls of 1 to wound, so Arch isn't necessary, but the Grenade Guy and the Bombardment Strategems are.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/13 14:42:43


Post by: Wayniac


Razerous wrote:
How exactly does this Death Guard grenade spam work, the one that produces lots of mortal wounds?

Or has this found to be a false promise aha


It's basically a complete one-trick pony. But you take a big blob of dudes, add a Biologus Putrifier to get +1 S/+1 D on grenades, use Veterans of the Long War and the stratagem that lets every guy throw a grenade, and it's like d3 grenades per guy that do mortals on a 5+, re-rolling 1s normally or all failures if you have a Warlord with Arch-Contaminator nearby. It's one of those tricks that you really only pull off once and it's amazing, but it's not a mainstay strategy IMHO.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/13 17:35:08


Post by: XShadow


Razerous wrote:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Razerous wrote:
How exactly does this Death Guard grenade spam work, the one that produces lots of mortal wounds?

Or has this found to be a false promise aha


Big unit of plague Marines and the grenade guy. Then the Strategem, plus VOTLW. (I was gonna say add Blades of Putrefaction, but I think that's Fight Phase only) Added bonus for arch contaminator warlord nearby for some extra rerolls.
Good good, just trying to learn the intricacy's for a friend.

The grenade guy? I didn't realise Death Guard had VotLW. I thought they just had Death to the False Emperor doo-thingy. Annd finally what does Arch Contaminator do (please & thank you!)

For context I bought the codex for this friend but I only had the chance to skim quickly before the drive home.


The grenade guy is the Biologus Putrifier. He has an ability that charges up everyones Blight grenades withiin 3" with +1 strength and +1 damage (so S4 Damage 2). In addition any wound rolls of 6+ with blight grenades cause a mortal wound in addition to the damage. The foul blightspawn is an optional model that lets a DG character once per game roll 2d6 for the single greanade. Thw stratagem is blight bombardment. Also Arch Contaminator is the warlord trait that gives the warlord a 7" bubble of rerolling all failed wounds with plague weapons , which blight grenades are.

I have had the mpst success with this strat by sticking 9 melee PMs and the putrifier in a rhino.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/13 22:47:19


Post by: blackmage


better go with a full infantry mass or play Mortarion? still very undecided


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/13 23:41:35


Post by: Kzraahk


Mortarion is cool, but it gets tiring seeing him included in most DG armies


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/14 09:03:53


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 blackmage wrote:
better go with a full infantry mass or play Mortarion? still very undecided


Why not both?

I plan on making a large force of plague marines and pox walkers for my initial death guard force. I'll add Mortarion later.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/14 12:59:46


Post by: blackmage


470pts of Mortarion suck so much pts to go real "horde"


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/14 14:38:35


Post by: gwarsh41


Morty is really fun, I highly suggest deathshoud to help him survive turn 1. They will make him near impossible to kill. I loved bringing him, but it is nice to play the book without him, as the army plays completely differently.

With morty, its all morty all the time. He can kill anything and everything with ease, so you just need to make sure he lives. I would bring tons of terminators, Blightlords and deathshroud. BL to alpha strike and distract, DS to protect, and murder anything that gets close. Our book has so many other fun builds, and Morty armies are just one of them. The problem is if you run morty, you can't afford to run the other ones, like big blobs of 20 with characters, or rhino rush. Morty needs the support.


Both are very fun to play, but your opponents will get tired of mortarion. My opponents seem to feel like most did when facing knight titans when they came out. Sure they do it, but it's frustrating.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/14 20:46:20


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 blackmage wrote:
470pts of Mortarion suck so much pts to go real "horde"


Well I meant... have both so you can play both. haha


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/15 19:23:53


Post by: Yoda79


I started play death guard cause of Morty. I like the model how he played etc. But if you don't want him in your list don't take him. So what.

Play what you like paint as you like is priority for a hobby.
None told you what colors to put or what army to pick. Same goes for your list. And it has nothing to do with competitive. You can with and with out.

My issue atm is how to utilize chaos in my lists to benefit from some tools pure dethguard does not have


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/15 20:22:31


Post by: blackmage


 Yoda79 wrote:
I started play death guard cause of Morty. I like the model how he played etc. But if you don't want him in your list don't take him. So what.

Play what you like paint as you like is priority for a hobby.
None told you what colors to put or what army to pick. Same goes for your list. And it has nothing to do with competitive. You can with and with out.

My issue atm is how to utilize chaos in my lists to benefit from some tools pure dethguard does not have

use alpha legion for oblys and infiltrate cultists


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/16 11:22:50


Post by: mario88826


Am I ... blind or GW actually starts to make reasonable prices ?!!!!

I could always afford , but tbh it's not cheap hobby let's be honest but price for 2 new things for DG are really steal.

Hauler so damn cheap, 3 goregous termies and fantastic LOC makes me want to get new LOC haha. I never though I would say that .

On top of that easy to build. Can't ask for more.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/16 12:52:07


Post by: blackmage


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings
. Categories: HQ, Character, Daemon, Monster, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Nurgle, Chaos, Psyker, Fly

Typhus: Blades of Putrefaction, Putrescent Vitality
. Categories: HQ, Character, Infantry, Psyker, Terminator, Death Guard, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Chaos, Lord of Contagion

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
. Categories: Fast Attack, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Vehicle, Daemon Engine, Daemon, Fly, Chaos

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
. Categories: Fast Attack, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Vehicle, Daemon Engine, Daemon, Fly, Chaos

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
. Categories: Fast Attack, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Vehicle, Daemon Engine, Daemon, Fly, Chaos

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Categories: Troops, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Death Guard, Nurgle, Chaos
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Categories: Troops, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Death Guard, Nurgle, Chaos
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker
. Categories: Troops, Infantry, Nurgle, Death Guard, Chaos

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion
. Categories: No Force Org Slot

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator
. Categories: Heavy Support, Heretic Astartes, Daemon, Infantry, Chaos, <Legion>, <Mark of Chaos>, Cult of Destruction, Slaanesh

Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator
. Categories: Heavy Support, Heretic Astartes, Daemon, Infantry, Chaos, <Legion>, <Mark of Chaos>, Cult of Destruction, Slaanesh

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings: Malefic talon
. Categories: HQ, Chaos, Character, Daemon, Fly, Heretic Astartes, Monster, <Legion>
. Slaanesh: Delightful Agonies
. . Categories: Psyker, Slaanesh

Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Bolt pistol, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience, Warptime
. Categories: HQ, Chaos, Character, Fly, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Psyker, <Legion>, <Mark of Chaos>, Slaanesh

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 12x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Categories: Troops, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Chaos, Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Categories: Troops, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Chaos, Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Categories: Troops, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Chaos, Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
trying something without Mortarion this is a 1850pt lists, looks like next tournament will be at 1850 not a 2000.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/16 18:11:47


Post by: Nightlord1987


Similar to a list I run, just Iron Warriors instead of Alpha Legion. Looks pretty disgusting in the best way. What is your Warptime target, the Princes?

When I run the list the biggest issue is keeping by those pox walkers alive, but Infiltrating a distraction unit might work. I would maybe drop a drone to get more cultists (for either pox farm or an infiltration) and maybe add a Tallyman for Typhus and the horde.

In my own similar list, I'm definitely gonna add a flesh mower drone as my next purchase.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/16 19:30:09


Post by: blackmage


use cloud of flies and pox live enough to be a threath, usually i warptime the prince or if needed i warptime cultists over an obj, depend what i need more, i use alpha cause i can use infiltration on cultists to grab some obj.
That list is 1850 at 2000 i add 20 more poxes and some more cultists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 blackmage wrote:
use cloud of flies and pox live enough to be a threath, usually i warptime the prince or if needed i warptime cultists over an obj, depend what i need more, i use alpha cause i can use infiltration on cultists to grab some obj.
That list is 1850 at 2000 i add 20 more poxes and some more cultists.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Plague Wind
. Categories: Character, Death Guard, HQ, Infantry, Heretic Astartes, Nurgle, Psyker, Chaos

Typhus: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality
. Categories: HQ, Character, Infantry, Psyker, Terminator, Death Guard, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Chaos, Lord of Contagion

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators
. Categories: Chaos, Death Guard, Elites, Heretic Astartes, Nurgle
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma

Tallyman: Plasma pistol
. Categories: Chaos, Character, Death Guard, Elites, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Nurgle

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone: Plague probe 2xplague spitter
. Categories: Fast Attack, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Vehicle, Daemon Engine, Daemon, Fly, Chaos

Foetid Bloat-drone: Plague probe 2xplague spitter
. Categories: Fast Attack, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Vehicle, Daemon Engine, Daemon, Fly, Chaos

Foetid Bloat-drone: Plague probe 2xplague spitter
. Categories: Fast Attack, Nurgle, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Vehicle, Daemon Engine, Daemon, Fly, Chaos

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 12x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Categories: Troops, Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Death Guard, Nurgle, Chaos
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Poxwalkers: 18x Poxwalker
. Categories: Troops, Infantry, Nurgle, Death Guard, Chaos

Poxwalkers: 18x Poxwalker
. Categories: Troops, Infantry, Nurgle, Death Guard, Chaos

Poxwalkers: 20x Poxwalker
. Categories: Troops, Infantry, Nurgle, Death Guard, Chaos

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, Wings
. Categories: HQ, Character, Daemon, Monster, Heretic Astartes, Death Guard, Nurgle, Chaos, Psyker, Fly

Malignant Plaguecaster
. Categories: Character, Death Guard, HQ, Infantry, Heretic Astartes, Nurgle, Psyker, Chaos

+ Troops +

Nurglings: 3x Nurgling Swarms
. Categories: Troops, Daemon, Nurgle, Nurglings, Swarm, Chaos

Nurglings: 3x Nurgling Swarms
. Categories: Troops, Daemon, Nurgle, Nurglings, Swarm, Chaos

Nurglings: 3x Nurgling Swarms
. Categories: Troops, Daemon, Nurgle, Nurglings, Swarm, Chaos

this is another option whole Dg list, but i lost obly's firepower and chaos psy powers and stratagems, but i get lot of infantry and seems like this edition rewards lists with large amount of infantry.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 17:04:40


Post by: Razerous


Sorry for this possibly obvious question.

How does Codex Death Guard work with the other chaos units, like the Heretic Astartes, Chaos Daemons etc.

I keep hearing folk mention Warp time, as an example.. and I'm sure that isn't a death guard power? Also I couldn't see an option for wings for a Codex Death Guard Daemon prince (or did I miss it?)

For example. I know Blood Angels get to use a bunch of core Space Marine units which aren't listed in the main BA codex. Is the same true for Death Guard or are different detachments needed (so.. chaos soup?). Thanks!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 17:29:51


Post by: Xirax


Warp time comes from regular CSM detachment, not mono DG.. Wings were FAQ'd or so, typo etc.. Nurgle DP can have wings.. And BA don't have access to any other units than codex and index. BA codex added lot of stuff from the SM codex. Hope this helps.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 17:34:51


Post by: Vortenger


Xirax wrote:
Warp time comes from regular CSM detachment, not mono DG...


Unless you use a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin or Index Daemon Prince, in which case: yes you can!



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 17:37:49


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Razerous wrote:
Sorry for this possibly obvious question.

How does Codex Death Guard work with the other chaos units, like the Heretic Astartes, Chaos Daemons etc.

I keep hearing folk mention Warp time, as an example.. and I'm sure that isn't a death guard power? Also I couldn't see an option for wings for a Codex Death Guard Daemon prince (or did I miss it?)

For example. I know Blood Angels get to use a bunch of core Space Marine units which aren't listed in the main BA codex. Is the same true for Death Guard or are different detachments needed (so.. chaos soup?). Thanks!


You can either take CSM in a different detachment to make use of their stratagems and Legion tactics, or you mix them with DG, losing tactics and stratagems of both. The first choice is obviously the better one, especially since many stratagems of CSM are for "heretic astartes" so work on DG units as well.
The sorcerer on palanquin still has access to warptime and can be used with the Death Guard Legion trait, but as he's slow and can't deep strike it's usually better to run an allied sorcerer with jump pack or DP.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 17:43:36


Post by: Razerous


Cool - thanks folks for clearing things up.

Are the psychic powers specifically that good.. is warp time a speed buff? And can it effect normal CSM & DG units both?

Cheers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 18:10:52


Post by: Jidmah


Vortenger wrote:
Xirax wrote:
Warp time comes from regular CSM detachment, not mono DG...


Unless you use a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin or Index Daemon Prince, in which case: yes you can!



Index daemon prince has been replaced by the Codex:CSM daemon prince, and that one cannot chose his legion to be Deathguard.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 18:14:43


Post by: Aelyn


Vortenger wrote:
Xirax wrote:
Warp time comes from regular CSM detachment, not mono DG...


Unless you use a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin or Index Daemon Prince, in which case: yes you can!

You can't take the Index version of the Daemon Prince datasheet. The "Daemon Prince" datasheet was last printed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so that's the current version of the datasheet, and the [LEGION] keyword for CSM datasheets can't be replaced with DEATH GUARD.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 20:22:17


Post by: Atlatl Jones


With the Myphitic Blight Haulers finally on sale, what are everyone's thoughts on them? The models are surprisingly inexpensive - three of them cost only slightly more than one Plagueburst Crawler. I can't figure out what they'd be most useful for. They're loaded out to be tank-killers, but their optimum range is really short, and they can't withdraw and shoot like Bloat Drones can. They're tough, especially against fighting attacks, but their fighting offense is lousy.

It seems like they'd be useful in a supporting role to advancing infantry, giving bonuses to armor saves and moving relatively quickly to wherever their firepower is needed most. I'm not sure they're worth their points for that though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 21:12:26


Post by: Dew


I was all about them until the Crawlers points cost came down, not I'm not so sure. You really need 3 of them to gain their maximum benefits but that's 450+ points!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/17 22:57:11


Post by: darthryan


Just think how scarey 3 of them look to your opponent closing on thier lines and shooting lots of antitank fire. Plus making your own troops harder to kill they will come under a lot of fire and every shot at them is not a shot at something else


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 00:57:52


Post by: ballzonya


That was my question I just don't think they are worth it, I can't see what they do that crawlers cant


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 08:34:15


Post by: blackmage


ballzonya wrote:
That was my question I just don't think they are worth it, I can't see what they do that crawlers cant

450pts is a lot for just "decent" antitank, but Dg doesn't have so many options for heavy antitank fire so maybe they can be viables if you wanna play pure Dg without any ally


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 10:07:04


Post by: snottlebocket


darthryan wrote:
Just think how scarey 3 of them look to your opponent closing on thier lines and shooting lots of antitank fire. Plus making your own troops harder to kill they will come under a lot of fire and every shot at them is not a shot at something else


Lots of anti tank fire? For 450 points you get 6 shots. Half of which are mediocre missile launchers. Half of which require you to be within 12" of the target for full effect.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 11:17:24


Post by: blackmage


the only way to have antitank with Dg is allied... obliterators for example or play 2 full laser predator for 380pts


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 12:00:34


Post by: Sherrypie


 blackmage wrote:
the only way to have antitank with Dg is allied... obliterators for example or play 2 full laser predator for 380pts


Deep striking terminators with lots of combi-meltas is also a thing, especially with an accompanying termie lord for re-rolls. Slap VotLW on them and almost any tank goes boom, even without the benefit of short range for meltas. Expected damage from just five meltas in that setup is a smidge over 9 wounds to a Leman Russ hull or 11.3 to Toughness 7. Personally I have the lord with combi-melta too, so there goes the tank unless it has force fields. Under 2000 points has worked pretty well for me as an AT tool, while supported with other parts of the force (like a flanking Predator looking for good firing lanes).

One other toy I've been thinking about is a Hellforged Contemptor with double fists and Soulburners. Moves upfield to midrange, lets loose with 2d3 mortal wounds on 2+ and goes to smash face afterwards. Even better in heavy ruins or other cover-filled locations, where Demolishers and other battle tanks without artillery have to roll close anyway.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 12:52:37


Post by: blackmage


of course termies work but cost 310pts, for 80 more i can put down 6 oblys who can fire twice when needed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 14:04:21


Post by: gwarsh41


Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 14:25:44


Post by: Sherrypie


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


Played an interesting match yesterday, somewhere near 800 pts of Death Guard vs. a rag-tag Ad Mech. Open war cards in use, the mission was to find which of the six markers was the actual objective while flaming debris was falling from orbit. The list had 3x 10 Cultists, a termie Lord, Plaguecaster, Typhus and 2x Drones with fleshmowers. Ad Mech made the mistake of deploying the Kastellan killerbots on the flank, from where they had to leg it up the table when our spread out Cultists ran to take all the objectives and dug for the prize. Cultists found the objective and dug in to weather the storm while everything else maneuvered to take defensive positions to slow the enemy and prevent them from getting near the goal. Drones flew to tackle infiltrators and explode all around while the termie lords distracted the enemy's infantry long enough that they were unable to actually get anywhere important in time. Won by finally throwing all the bodies at the Kastellans and preventing them from shooting the Cultists holding the objective.

Boots on the ground are important in small games, as are the fast fliers that can answer all sorts of problems popping up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 14:26:10


Post by: Fueli


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 14:44:10


Post by: gwarsh41


 Fueli wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


I know, but for some reason others don't agree.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 14:57:32


Post by: Vortenger


@Jidmah and Aelyn: You seem to be mostly correct. The dataslate was updated in CSM but access to that dataslate was not revoked. The index p. 57 gives us access to Daemon Princes with the DG keyword. The flowchart GW helpfully provided us tells us to use the codex version instead. Cool. So we then get the updated CSM Daemon Prince in addition to the Prince of Nurgle. Is it intended? Who knows, but that seems the way it was written. There could be something in there I don't get, but it seems clear to me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 16:11:10


Post by: Jidmah


Vortenger wrote:
@Jidmah and Aelyn: You seem to be mostly correct. The dataslate was updated in CSM but access to that dataslate was not revoked. The index p. 57 gives us access to Daemon Princes with the DG keyword. The flowchart GW helpfully provided us tells us to use the codex version instead. Cool. So we then get the updated CSM Daemon Prince in addition to the Prince of Nurgle. Is it intended? Who knows, but that seems the way it was written. There could be something in there I don't get, but it seems clear to me.


Nope, sorry.

Let's have a look at the chart:


Your model is a daemon prince.
Does it have a datasheet in a codex?
=> Yes! In Codex:CSM
Are there wargear options for your model, that only appear in the index version of the datasheet?
=> Well, I guess you could use the warp-bolter to claim no.
=> Use the Codex version of your datasheet, but you can use the index version for its wargear options.

So, warpbolter or no, Daemon Princes cannot chose "Deathguard" as their Legion, since the codex containing the datasheet explicitly forbids that. Legions are not wargear, but keywords.
You can have a nurgle-aligned daemon prince casting prescience or warptime (and a warp bolter), but it can't be Deathguard.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 17:37:27


Post by: Vortenger


Correct, and the Daemon Prince is in turn given explicit permission to take the keyword in a previous publication. It is unique, as no other dataslate from the early Heretic Astartes line-up has such a precedent. Even with the DG notes on p. 116 of the CSM codex, I fail to see why the exception given in the index does not still apply. Order of operations would be to: use the index to select the Prince. Flowchart the dataslate to the CSM codex entry which would normally be disallowed per codex. Apply exception from index. Field unit with the DG legion keyword. Miss having DR while firing your pea shooter. This rules interaction between the two books would prevent such abuses as DG keyword Oblits or Heldrakes but allows for DG Daemon Princes. This interpretation still meets all criteria on that flowchart, does it not?

Regardless of rules ambiguity, I think we can agree mono DG still can use palanquin sorcerers and therefore still has easy access to warptime and prescience. Adding an Alpha Legion detachment is likely a more competitive choice with wider unit and stratagem access, but the point remains we can still use Hereticus powers without allies. For now.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 19:13:48


Post by: Kzraahk


Hey guys, I have a 550pts tourney this weekend and I'm torn between three options:

All armies have to be a Patrol Dettachment

List 1:
Plaguecaster

5 PM w/2 Blight Launchers and Plasma on Champion

14 Poxwalkers

Foul Blightspawn

Drone w/ Plaguespitters


List 2:
Plaguecaster

20 Poxwalkers

2x Drone w/ Plaguespitters


List 3:
Plaguecaster

11 Poxwalkers
10 Poxwalkers

Plagueburst Crawler w/ Entropy Cannons
Drone w/ Plaguespitters

(I could switch some Poxwalkers for cultists, but I only have melee cultists which I don't really like)

Which one do you think could work best? I know there are gonna be at least 2 AM armies, 2 SW (one with a Stormwolf), 2 AdMech and 2 Orkz. Don't know about the rest


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 19:33:01


Post by: broxus


I like your first list best for the tournament.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 19:53:44


Post by: Claas


So I can still use my Death Guard Lord with Jump Pack? Nice. Is that rule clarification in the codices or from website in case I need it?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 20:30:42


Post by: Jidmah


Vortenger wrote:
Correct, and the Daemon Prince is in turn given explicit permission to take the keyword in a previous publication. It is unique, as no other dataslate from the early Heretic Astartes line-up has such a precedent. Even with the DG notes on p. 116 of the CSM codex, I fail to see why the exception given in the index does not still apply. Order of operations would be to: use the index to select the Prince. Flowchart the dataslate to the CSM codex entry which would normally be disallowed per codex. Apply exception from index. Field unit with the DG legion keyword. Miss having DR while firing your pea shooter. This rules interaction between the two books would prevent such abuses as DG keyword Oblits or Heldrakes but allows for DG Daemon Princes. This interpretation still meets all criteria on that flowchart, does it not?

It does not.

You have no permission to use index data sheet for any reason but additional wargear choices. A full list of wargear can be found on pages 122-125 of the index. "Deathguard" is not on the list for obvious reasons.
You are also explicitly forbidden from using any of the Deathguard army rules in the index, as the codex has superseded them

For all datasheets from the index that are in Codex: CSM and not in Codex: Deathguard this means that you cannot take them with the Deathguard keyword (these are surprisingly few).

The intention behind this is also clear: The flowchart guarantees that all models that you have built are still usable after the codex was released. Nothing prevents you from fielding your Daemon Prince, you just can't have both Hertic Astartes powers and the Deathguard keyword.

If you want further clarity on this, I suggest taking it to the YMDC forum.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/18 22:21:51


Post by: Zid


What Psychic abilities is everyone taking for their DG sorcerer's? I feel like we should take one offensive, and one defensive skill. I'll have my first game in the coming weeks, looking at 1500 pts, and I tend to have at least 2 sorcerers in every list

Edit: Couple followup questions; 1) Why does everyone suggest tons of blightcasters? What am I missing that makes them so good? 2) Why would you take an Arch Contaminator for Plagueburst Crawlers? Entropy cannons are not plague weapons, so the only weapon you get to reroll is the mortar... unless this was FAQ'd?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/19 01:32:24


Post by: Nightlord1987


I use powers to buff Pox Walkers, usually with Typhus. Vitality and Blades of Putrefaction on Typhus, and if I bring a Caster, gift and plague wind.

Miasma is a better power on the Daemon Prince that I usually run. I can get away with just Blades and Vitality with Typhus, so I haven't needed the Caster lately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the idea for Caster spam was smite plus the additional mortal wound from the fallout. The couple extra points for T5, fnp, and staff is worth it over a vanilla nurgle Sorcerer. He is pretty much the cheapest Out of the Box HQ choice for multiple battalions. Also deny the witch from multiple sources is helpful at times.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/19 01:44:33


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 gwarsh41 wrote:
 Fueli wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


I know, but for some reason others don't agree.


Well then show them the big rule book, where it specifically states the intention of the game size to be a 4x4 board when playing 100-1000 points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/19 07:43:12


Post by: snottlebocket


 gwarsh41 wrote:
 Fueli wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Has anyone had any success with Death Guard at low points levels? I feel like at 500pt, speed is the most important thing. Bloat Drones, Blight Haulers and Daemon princes are all decent fast options, and decently cheap for their durability.

I thought about a poxwalker horde, you can fit a good amount of pox walkers with Typhus and another character in 500pt. Would probably be really effective, a bunch of T5/S5 poxwalkers walking around, but then it's terribly slow. Which is awful, especially if playing on a full sized table.


You really shouldn't play low points games on full size table. 4x4 is good up to a 1000 points. That said, I feel you're on the right track about fast units.


I know, but for some reason others don't agree.


I'm sure some players/armies would prefer to fight you on a 8' by 8' table to given the chance. Doesn't mean you should let them make up the rules.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/19 14:20:01


Post by: gwarsh41


Little bit too much focus on the table size, I did say, "if". It will be a league, and like ITC, sometimes there are rules adjustments. It's not a big deal to me. Even on a 4x4, speed will be very important. One of the rules is that you cannot change your list until the point level increases. So whatever I run at 500, has to work against all armies. I have no idea what the objectives will be, but here is what I am planning on bringing.

Malefic Talons winged DP with miasma and Plate
10 autogun cultists
6 Plague Marines, 2 have Blight launchers
Bloat drone with spitters

500pt exactly.

Talons DP should be able to deal with anything from vehicles to hordes, especially if the bloat drone provides a screen for him. Those two will hopefully do enough heavy lifting, and be enough of a thread that the cultists can objective hunt, as well as act as a deep strike counter. Plague marines move up the field for objectives, while providing fire support where needed, blight launchers. I didn't realize until making this list that cultists should get inexorable advance, making them just a little bit more threatening.

My plans for the league are to run infantry heavy lists, but with extra points for how well your army is painted, I am starting off with a lower model count. I'll be attempting poxwalker and Plague marine hordes (I know plague marines are generally better MSU).




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/20 23:31:37


Post by: blackmage


lately im looking mixed demons and Dg lists having epidemius+pb and nurgle oblyts, is that really worth?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 10:04:28


Post by: Iago40k


so I am thinking about getting a box of blightlord terminators. I am fairly new to death guard myself but basically all my lists are targetting a competitive approach. I play a lot of tournaments (up until now with AdMech) and I try to place as well as possible but on the other hand I do my very best to stay mono faction. And now its DG/nurgle time. I heard a lot about those terminators and i love the models. still i am not quite sure about them. why should i field them? what are they doing better than lets say another DP or Bloat Drone? how should i field them (combi plas or special CC weapons all around or just plain and cheap)? I know this depends on the rest of the list but for me 5 dudes with bolters are not screaming "I am the I win button!". Input would be greatly appreciated.
Puls: are there any DG lists that have won tournaments so far? cause Id like to know


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 10:17:16


Post by: blackmage


i didn't see any pure Dg list win tournaments, most are mixed Dg+chaos or demons
About blightlords: i played them couple of times, they are durable and hard hitters main problem is without plasma if you dont have a sorcerer with warptime you risk to fail a charge then the opponent have all the time to deal with them, they best suits in aggressive lists with drones and Mortarion for example. Personally if you like to go mixed armies obliterators are far superior.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 10:31:48


Post by: Iago40k


 blackmage wrote:
i didn't see any pure Dg list win tournaments, most are mixed Dg+chaos or demons
About blightlords: i played them couple of times, they are durable and hard hitters main problem is without plasma if you dont have a sorcerer with warptime you risk to fail a charge then the opponent have all the time to deal with them, they best suits in aggressive lists with drones and Mortarion for example. Personally if you like to go mixed armies obliterators are far superior.

Well I like the aggressive approach. I usually play 2 Drones plus morty and a DP and either a couple of Plague Marine units or cultist/poxwalker shennanigans in the back. I tend to not play Plague Burst Crawlers.
Okay, lets stay with the agressive approach a little bit. so you say either take them plain and with a warptime sorcerer or take them with plasma? how are they doing in CC by the way? I mean for 225 pts base costs they dont look too heavy hitting on paper. but I have no experience, therefore the question.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 10:49:44


Post by: blackmage


well... in CaC with blade of putrefaction and if needed votlw stratagem they really hit hard, +2 to wound and each 5+ is a mortal wound with their plague weapons, if you have a viable way to send them in CaC the turn they drop you can keep them cheap (i just gave the champion a melta gun), if you have not i suggest use plasma at least if they cant charge something valuable they can keep shooting plasma.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 10:58:16


Post by: Iago40k


I remember a rather successful list at wsrzone atlanta with 10 combiplas termies and some alpha legion. But i feel that would be a one trick pony like the grenade blob.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 22:50:04


Post by: kilfrg7864


Question for all of you regarding the cloud of flies stratagem.

The stratagem reads that enemy models can only shoot this unit if it's the closest visible unit. Does this apply only to shooting phase or overwatch as well?

I know under the character rules it specifies that they can only be targeted if they are the closest unit in the shooting phase. But the stratagem doesn't specify a certain phase.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/21 23:25:15


Post by: Zid


What about Two terminator sorcerers (one CSM, one DG) buffing the Blightlords, then warp timing them putting you into easy charging range?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 09:22:34


Post by: blackmage


usually i have a csm sorcerer for warp time and Dp with blades for the blightlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what do you think about this list? worth taking epidemius?


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [34 PL, 584pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Nurgle

Epidemius [5 PL, 100pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind

++ Total: [111 PL, 1996pts] ++



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 13:23:28


Post by: mario88826


 blackmage wrote:
usually i have a csm sorcerer for warp time and Dp with blades for the blightlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what do you think about this list? worth taking epidemius?


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [34 PL, 584pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Nurgle

Epidemius [5 PL, 100pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind

++ Total: [111 PL, 1996pts] ++



Looks like very strong list to me. However it's hardly DG list, sure there is Morty and drones but for it's like Demon list. You gonna beat ton of people with it i assume , but it's not DG list for me - Nurgle Demons - yes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 15:26:37


Post by: Thantos Kalev


mario88826 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
usually i have a csm sorcerer for warp time and Dp with blades for the blightlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what do you think about this list? worth taking epidemius?
Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [34 PL, 584pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Nurgle

Epidemius [5 PL, 100pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 196pts]: 27x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 552pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Miasma of Pestilence, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 124pts]: Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind

++ Total: [111 PL, 1996pts] ++



Looks like very strong list to me. However it's hardly DG list, sure there is Morty and drones but for it's like Demon list. You gonna beat ton of people with it i assume , but it's not DG list for me - Nurgle Demons - yes.


It's definitely worth taking Epidemius, as he buffs literally everything in that army. I would prefer another unit of Oblits, but there is no way to squeeze it in the mix, IMO. If you can somehow boost the tally up to 2 before they drop in, those 1's won't be quite as painful.

The majority of your points is DG, so I would also consider it a DG army, FWIW.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 16:59:47


Post by: blackmage


im still not sure about Mortarion, against strong top lists he dies quickly usually doing almost nothing. Dont know what i can squeeze in, i f i take out him.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 17:17:27


Post by: Thantos Kalev


 blackmage wrote:
im still not sure about Mortarion, against strong top lists he dies quickly usually doing almost nothing. Dont know what i can squeeze in, i f i take out him.

Two more units of Oblits, and a Herald for back-end support and/or healing Epidemius.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 22:05:35


Post by: reenon


Has anyone had success with running without poxwalkers/ typhus? I'm trying to come up with a list that doesn't include either, but is still relatively competitive:

Battalion Detachment (1530 Pts)
HQ: 360pts
1. Daemon Prince of Nurgle w/ Wings & Supperating Plate
2. Daemon Prince of Nurgle w/Wings

Elites: 245pts
1. Deathshroud Terminators
2. Noxious Blightbringer w/Fugaris helm (-1 Command Point)

Fast Attack: 474 Pts
1. Foetid Bloat-drone w/2x Plaguespitters
2. Foetid Bloat-drone w/2x Plaguespitters
3. Foetid Bloat-drone w/2x Plaguespitters

Troops: 451 Pts
1. Plague Marines x5 (2x Plasma Gun)
2. Plague Marines x5 (2x Blight Launcher & 1x Flail of Corruption)
3. Plague Marines x5 (2x Blight Launcher & 1x Flail of Corruption)
4. Plague Marines x5 (2x Blight Launcher & 1x Bubotic Axe)

Super Heavy Aux. Detachment 470 Pts
Mortarion

General strategy is that the drones, 1xDP, and Morty can move up quickly as immediate threats, while the Plague Marines and 1x DP move up the board after with the help of the Noxious Blightbringer. Plasma guns are there for a little extra punch when needed. I like the deathshroud models, so that's more of a flavor pick, but they seem move worthwhile given the points decrease.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 22:37:01


Post by: blackmage


i played this


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [72 PL, 1219pts] ++

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic talon, Wings

Necrosius the Undying [7 PL, 120pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality warlord, archcontaminator

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier [4 PL, 74pts]: Plaguebringer

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plague Marines [13 PL, 184pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [13 PL, 183pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Bubotic Axe
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 654pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: Curse of the Leper, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

++ Total: [112 PL, 1993pts] ++



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 23:04:33


Post by: Masutaman


I think your list is very solid. Not sure if you need the plasma when you can add blight launchers near the arch contaminator boost.

One small change would be to drop one plague marine squad for two units of 15 cultist to get more board presence and to push back teleporting models.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 23:15:46


Post by: Dudeface


Not a battleforged death guard list due to nurglings though?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/22 23:39:38


Post by: Claas


Unfortunately nurglings and plague bearers do not have the death guard keyword. You either have to take them in a separate detachment or summon them in.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 00:14:50


Post by: blackmage


i can use i just dont have legion special rules in that detachment, army remain battle forged cause all units share same faction (chaos). In any case eventually the problem is easy to fix


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 02:05:07


Post by: Nightlord1987


I'd just take those Plague Marines in the Outrider detachment. They benefit from the move and shoot.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 04:37:13


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 blackmage wrote:
i can use i just dont have legion special rules in that detachment, army remain battle forged cause all units share same faction (chaos). In any case eventually the problem is easy to fix


The legion rules are really good on plague marines tho. Not something to give away lightly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'd just take those Plague Marines in the Outrider detachment. They benefit from the move and shoot.

yeah that works.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 08:23:24


Post by: Claas


Is it worth leaving the points free to summon in a Herald for healing? Or are the points better spent elsewhere? The list I am working on has 3 Foetid Bloat Drones and a Demon Prince. Also list which is 2 battlions and a outrider includes a malignant plague caster, Typhus, 20 poxwalkers, 2 squads of 7 Plague Marines and an alpha legion battalion with 2 sorceres and 3x 20 cultists.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 08:45:50


Post by: blackmage


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
i can use i just dont have legion special rules in that detachment, army remain battle forged cause all units share same faction (chaos). In any case eventually the problem is easy to fix


The legion rules are really good on plague marines tho. Not something to give away lightly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'd just take those Plague Marines in the Outrider detachment. They benefit from the move and shoot.

yeah that works.

i could move marines in outrider detachment, btw the bonus for plague is shoot rapid fire at 18" not move and shoot they dont have heavy weapons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 08:55:55


Post by: Captyn_Bob


And advance and shoot the blight launchers without penalty


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 14:53:33


Post by: blackmage


for what i saw in the actual meta hordes are rewarded, so play just 10 plague marines instead of 80 pox usually isn't worth, same for models like Mortarion, in a "friendly" enviroment he is a great piece, as soon as you meet some competititve lists you figure how fragile he is, some top lists can get rid of it in 1-2 turns.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 17:05:25


Post by: Danny slag


Claas wrote:
Unfortunately nurglings and plague bearers do not have the death guard keyword. You either have to take them in a separate detachment or summon them in.


That seems like a huge oversight by GW, that has to be a mistake that's getting FAQed right? "Here's nurgle deamonkin...but you can't take half the units in your codex."


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/23 17:35:50


Post by: blackmage


Danny slag wrote:
Claas wrote:
Unfortunately nurglings and plague bearers do not have the death guard keyword. You either have to take them in a separate detachment or summon them in.


That seems like a huge oversight by GW, that has to be a mistake that's getting FAQed right? "Here's nurgle deamonkin...but you can't take half the units in your codex."

you can take them, just you cant use Dg special rules in THAT detachment only, is not a bit problem at all.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/24 12:59:24


Post by: akwing00


Question for you guys, as I haven't been able to find a clear answer on this, but regarding Death Guard Sorcerers, I understand that via the index we can give them jump packs.

Does this mean that we would use the index profile for sorcerers? And if so, would that give them access to the Dark Hereticus discipline rather than the Contagion one from the Death Guard codex?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/24 17:20:29


Post by: blackmage


 akwing00 wrote:
Question for you guys, as I haven't been able to find a clear answer on this, but regarding Death Guard Sorcerers, I understand that via the index we can give them jump packs.

Does this mean that we would use the index profile for sorcerers? And if so, would that give them access to the Dark Hereticus discipline rather than the Contagion one from the Death Guard codex?

yes looks like that, that's a cheap way to have great powers like warptime or death hex.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/24 20:45:24


Post by: Captyn_Bob


No, you can take index wargear but still use the codex datasheet if there is one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Works with the palanquin sorceror tho)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 00:40:56


Post by: Dew


I see uses and advantages/disadvantages for the sprayers and the canons on the Plaugeburst Crawlers, but what is everyone using between the heavy stubber and the vollygun?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 03:20:04


Post by: Fenris-77


In a vacuum I'll mostly take the strength and AP over 12" of range there, but they're both fine IMO. Depends on what you'll be doing with the PCs - if you're going to hanging back and slamming out Entropy Cannon fire then the matching range on the Slugger might be the way to go.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 04:41:15


Post by: Nightlord1987


I kinda wish the Noxious Blightbringer had more to offer. Its a pretty great looking model. If only they could have combined the Blightbringer and Tallyman as one model together. Tallyman has the aura buff of a Chaplain, yet the blight Bringer is equipped like one... Also seems like Foul Blightspawn and Putrifier could have been combined as well.

I'm playing a small narrative game, so the Bell guy can work as a Beast master of sorts, pushing Spawn, drones, Pox walkers etc forward... But he is pretty expensive for basically a turn or two of running a few extra inches... I suppose 2 characters run the same price as one decent character, but still. While the Tallyman has been auto include for my poxwalker farm, the Blightbringer comes up short.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 16:27:24


Post by: Danny slag


 sennacherib wrote:
1. Predators with las cannons or allied obliterators for anti tank. Dakka dreads with las ml are ok but get killed quick.
2.swap out you PM and add the cultists with the pox walkers. Use the dead walk on the pox walkers and the cloud of flies. They kill cultists. You get pox walkers. Win win.
3. Not sure.
4. Give him miasma of pestilence and then use 1 cp to give him warp time saving you from allying in a sorcerer. Not sure though since I don’t use mortarion in my lists.


I know this is an old post but I can't seem to find anywhere that you can spend 1 cp to take non contagion psychic powers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 16:46:01


Post by: Captyn_Bob


Danny slag wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
1. Predators with las cannons or allied obliterators for anti tank. Dakka dreads with las ml are ok but get killed quick.
2.swap out you PM and add the cultists with the pox walkers. Use the dead walk on the pox walkers and the cloud of flies. They kill cultists. You get pox walkers. Win win.
3. Not sure.
4. Give him miasma of pestilence and then use 1 cp to give him warp time saving you from allying in a sorcerer. Not sure though since I don’t use mortarion in my lists.


I know this is an old post but I can't seem to find anywhere that you can spend 1 cp to take non contagion psychic powers?

Bit of a hack.
If you take chaos space marine detachment, you unlock the Spell Familiar stratagem. This stratagem can then be used on DG psykers to get csm powers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 19:04:25


Post by: Danny slag


Captyn_Bob wrote:
Danny slag wrote:
 sennacherib wrote:
1. Predators with las cannons or allied obliterators for anti tank. Dakka dreads with las ml are ok but get killed quick.
2.swap out you PM and add the cultists with the pox walkers. Use the dead walk on the pox walkers and the cloud of flies. They kill cultists. You get pox walkers. Win win.
3. Not sure.
4. Give him miasma of pestilence and then use 1 cp to give him warp time saving you from allying in a sorcerer. Not sure though since I don’t use mortarion in my lists.


I know this is an old post but I can't seem to find anywhere that you can spend 1 cp to take non contagion psychic powers?

Bit of a hack.
If you take chaos space marine detachment, you unlock the Spell Familiar stratagem. This stratagem can then be used on DG psykers to get csm powers


ah thank you. i would like a 2nd detachment just to be able to take nurglings without screwing up my primary DG rules, but all together that'd be almost 300 pts for sorcerer and 3 min units of nurglings, not really worth it i imagine.

i also saw some folks saying surgeon sucks, what am i missing there? Looking at it he should massively increase the survivability of my footslogging wall of plague marines with the bonus to disgustingly resilient.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 19:34:24


Post by: Rivener


The Plague Surgeon provides a 5% boost to survivability.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/25 20:00:14


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Problem with Plague surgeon is he is only good against Marine armies, and almost kinda needs the relic on top of that.

Outside of that he increases survivability from ~33->38%.

Now that's better than a lot of people give credit to, but still very hard to justify 65 points on when he doesn't get the +1/+1 to his melee. The +1/+1 is so good its a big shortchange not getting it.

I suppose if you were doing something like LoC/Blightlords/Tallyman/Surgeon in a Land Raider you could feel like there is some synergy there, but that's more quirky narrative play style over raw competitive.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/26 02:03:51


Post by: Danny slag


Rivener wrote:
The Plague Surgeon provides a 5% boost to survivability.


can you do the math for me on that?

I know this isn't proper stats, just quick and dirty, but i can't see how it's so small. normal DR fails on 4 out of 6 rolls. With the surgeon it fails outright on only 3 out of 6 rolls, then a reroll of 4 out of 6. 5% seems extremely small for a a 6 sided die roll. I mean if rerolling 1s was effectively nothing why would we be all about rerolling 1s to hit auras?

if you could show me the proper stats on that that would be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Problem with Plague surgeon is he is only good against Marine armies, and almost kinda needs the relic on top of that.

Outside of that he increases survivability from ~33->38%.

Now that's better than a lot of people give credit to, but still very hard to justify 65 points on when he doesn't get the +1/+1 to his melee. The +1/+1 is so good its a big shortchange not getting it.

I suppose if you were doing something like LoC/Blightlords/Tallyman/Surgeon in a Land Raider you could feel like there is some synergy there, but that's more quirky narrative play style over raw competitive.


let's be honest "competative" is an term for games that have a complete lack of competition and really is just 240 cultists + Morty + Typhus.

33 - 38% sounds a lot more realistic. I definitely wouldn't take him for the marine ability, that's more of a fluffy random, was thinking more for the aura. I haven't played him so i'm only going on a feeling but seems like having him at the center of a ball of plague marines and blight haulters would make for a frustratingly hard to destroy mass.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/26 03:25:29


Post by: emcnelly


Danny slag wrote:
Rivener wrote:
The Plague Surgeon provides a 5% boost to survivability.


can you do the math for me on that?

I know this isn't proper stats, just quick and dirty, but i can't see how it's so small. normal DR fails on 4 out of 6 rolls. With the surgeon it fails outright on only 3 out of 6 rolls, then a reroll of 4 out of 6. 5% seems extremely small for a a 6 sided die roll. I mean if rerolling 1s was effectively nothing why would we be all about rerolling 1s to hit auras?

if you could show me the proper stats on that that would be cool.


No problem.

Here is the probability of rolling a 1 then rolling a 5+
1/6 * 1/3 = 1/18 or roughly 5.56%

You then add that to the probability of rolling a 5+
1/3 + 1/18 = 7/18 or roughly 38.89%


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/26 03:37:26


Post by: Rivener


DR is a 33% chance to survive a wound. There is a 66% chance of failing DR, and only a 16% chance of failing it with a roll of 1. So 16% of the time we get a reroll.

Of those times, only 33% see a successful DR. So, 16% times 33%, which is about 5%, give or take.

The ability to reroll 1’s gets much better the better your “target number” is. For DR you need a 5+ on your reroll. For Guilliman many of the things he’s buffing need a 3+ on their reroll. If he’s hanging out with a Contemptor Dread he’s letting it reroll all it’s misses, not just a fraction of them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/26 18:14:53


Post by: Zid


Surgeons would be way better if they allowed a reroll on a failed DR roll of any model within a radius (say, 7") instead of the whole unit. He'd be a good elite babysitter, even use him to babysit tanks like PBC's. As he is, though, rerolling 1's is meh.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/26 19:02:09


Post by: Drewtavian


Hi sorry if it's a stupid question or not.
Just looked at the box set of termies - Lord felthius and his tainted cohort. One of the figures states it comes with a plague spitter. is this correct as the standard blightLord termies come with a plague spewer.

Points costs and stats are dif on the weapons so I can see a reason for this cheaper weapon option. so does any one else know what's different with the tainted cohort as a unit option over the standard blightLord termies? Can they be expanded etc

Sorry if it's been asked before.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/26 23:55:31


Post by: Kzraahk


Would Nurglings (say 3 units) and a Herald in a separate Patrol be a viable alternative to Cultists/Poxwalkers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 00:08:57


Post by: Fenris-77


Nurglings, a Herald and Epidemius in a Battalion would be even better.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 00:47:40


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Kzraahk wrote:
Would Nurglings (say 3 units) and a Herald in a separate Patrol be a viable alternative to Cultists/Poxwalkers?


Yes Nurglings are excellent. They're different to Cultists/Poxwalker screens in that they soak small arms firepower per point much better with their 5++/5+++. If the enemy shoots multi dmg weapons at them, then 1) they're falling on a 5++ wasting -AP, and 2) they aren't shooting those at your Plague Marines or Terminators, which is a win for the Deathguard force.

They're a great screener unit for making a more skew list where you're playing to the resiliency of the Deathguard to small arms rather than using Cultists/Poxwalkers as part of a recursion strategy. They're good at soaking mortals, they have good rules for getting out ahead of your force to where they need to be to function well as a screen compared to say Pox who are let down a lot by their lack of speed or Cultists who are cheap per point but very squishy when you factor in morale.

You don't have to take a Demon HQ either, any of the book HQ choices don't mind not having the Death Guard battleforged bonuses.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 01:05:36


Post by: Nightlord1987


They seem decent. I'm holding off on any Daemon units until the Codex. I wonder what direction they're going to take.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 01:24:51


Post by: Kzraahk


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Kzraahk wrote:
Would Nurglings (say 3 units) and a Herald in a separate Patrol be a viable alternative to Cultists/Poxwalkers?


Yes Nurglings are excellent. They're different to Cultists/Poxwalker screens in that they soak small arms firepower per point much better with their 5++/5+++. If the enemy shoots multi dmg weapons at them, then 1) they're falling on a 5++ wasting -AP, and 2) they aren't shooting those at your Plague Marines or Terminators, which is a win for the Deathguard force.

They're a great screener unit for making a more skew list where you're playing to the resiliency of the Deathguard to small arms rather than using Cultists/Poxwalkers as part of a recursion strategy. They're good at soaking mortals, they have good rules for getting out ahead of your force to where they need to be to function well as a screen compared to say Pox who are let down a lot by their lack of speed or Cultists who are cheap per point but very squishy when you factor in morale.

You don't have to take a Demon HQ either, any of the book HQ choices don't mind not having the Death Guard battleforged bonuses.


Guess I'll try them out. I'm already running a Prince, a Plaguecaster and 2 Blightspawns. I chose the Herald because it was the cheapest option and it lets me heal other Daemons


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 07:46:44


Post by: Jidmah


Drewtavian wrote:
Hi sorry if it's a stupid question or not.
Just looked at the box set of termies - Lord felthius and his tainted cohort. One of the figures states it comes with a plague spitter. is this correct as the standard blightLord termies come with a plague spewer.

Points costs and stats are dif on the weapons so I can see a reason for this cheaper weapon option. so does any one else know what's different with the tainted cohort as a unit option over the standard blightLord termies? Can they be expanded etc

Sorry if it's been asked before.


The biggest difference is probably that you can field them as a unit of 3, blightlords are 5-10.

I'm also fairly certain that the weapon is a plague spewer not a plague spitter.

Plague spitters can be seen on one of the easy to build marines:
Spoiler:


Plague spewers are what the starter set drones have, which is pretty much same as what the cohort member is carrying.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 10:03:00


Post by: Xirax


That's a blight launcher on the top left corner, then there's a regular boltgun on top right..



Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 10:37:22


Post by: Drewtavian


 Jidmah wrote:
Drewtavian wrote:
Hi sorry if it's a stupid question or not.
Just looked at the box set of termies - Lord felthius and his tainted cohort. One of the figures states it comes with a plague spitter. is this correct as the standard blightLord termies come with a plague spewer.

Points costs and stats are dif on the weapons so I can see a reason for this cheaper weapon option. so does any one else know what's different with the tainted cohort as a unit option over the standard blightLord termies? Can they be expanded etc

Sorry if it's been asked before.


The biggest difference is probably that you can field them as a unit of 3, blightlords are 5-10.

I'm also fairly certain that the weapon is a plague spewer not a plague spitter.

Plague spitters can be seen on one of the easy to build marines:
Spoiler:


Plague spewers are what the starter set drones have, which is pretty much same as what the cohort member is carrying.



This is taken from games work web shops website.

His accompanying Tainted Cohort are no less horrific – 3 Blightlord Terminators. These are armed with the following: 1 carries a combi-bolter and balesword, 1 carries a combi-bolter and bubotic axe, and 1 wields a plaguespitter which is a bit, well, dribbly. Each has the horrible, rusted marks of Nurgle you would expect, and the Blightlord Terminator with the balesword is literally bursting with bubo-covered tentacles – they’re sticking out of where his face should be…

It confused me as the only units that have plaguespiters are a couple vehicles. Which already confused me with termies having a stronger version then the vehicle mounted ones. The plague spewer

Thanks anyway guys for input. I may still buy them then in any case just to have some alt poses..


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 14:41:52


Post by: Nightlord1987


The Easy To Build Plague Marine has a Blight Launcher, not plague spitter/spewer.


And also as far as I know, there are no options to field just the 3 Blight Lord Terminators. When the FB team was asked, they kept saying only as an Understrength Unit auxiliary choice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/27 15:11:44


Post by: Jidmah


Drewtavian wrote:
It confused me as the only units that have plaguespiters are a couple vehicles. Which already confused me with termies having a stronger version then the vehicle mounted ones. The plague spewer

Ah, now I get it. Sorry

Terminators don't have an option for plague spitters, so I think it's safe bet to say the description is wrong and its just two different profiles for the same type of weapon.
Also, plague spewer are Strength: User, so they wouldn't be that great on S4 models anyways.

@Nightlord1987: Apparently, there is a dataslate for them in the box.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 04:48:15


Post by: akwing00


I haven't had much of a chance to play my death guard yet (still collecting and painting it all), but I was wondering how you guys were using Typhus?

I see the advantages of deep striking him with Blightlords. Also it's pretty obvious he goes well with poxwalkers. Regarding that, are you all just having him walk up the board and buffing them, casting as well?

I ask because I'm wondering if he's doing much else besides the buffing, seeing as how it is a generally slow moving tide of models.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 07:17:35


Post by: elk@work


 akwing00 wrote:
I haven't had much of a chance to play my death guard yet (still collecting and painting it all), but I was wondering how you guys were using Typhus?

I see the advantages of deep striking him with Blightlords. Also it's pretty obvious he goes well with poxwalkers. Regarding that, are you all just having him walk up the board and buffing them, casting as well?

I ask because I'm wondering if he's doing much else besides the buffing, seeing as how it is a generally slow moving tide of models.


Even with poxwalkers, not always optimal to walk Typhus all the way doing almost as good as nothing... I prefer deepstriking him forward with some blightlords and have poxwalkers catch up with him on turn 2 - 3...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 07:42:43


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Have a question. If I have a death guard detachment plus say a world eaters detachment. Then my deathguard still benefit from the deathguard legion rules, while my world eaters benefit from my world eater legion rules right?

Also, the force is considered battle forged because its all chaos right?

And I can use both deathguard strategems plus CSM strategems right?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 07:55:52


Post by: elk@work


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Have a question. If I have a death guard detachment plus say a world eaters detachment. Then my deathguard still benefit from the deathguard legion rules, while my world eaters benefit from my world eater legion rules right?

Also, the force is considered battle forged because its all chaos right?

And I can use both deathguard strategems plus CSM strategems right?

Right on all points (provided that no detachment is an Auxiliary Support detachment)... thanks to DG codex FAQ you can also use CSM stratagems on valid DG targets and vice versa


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 17:35:25


Post by: Jidmah


Fielding pure a detachment of Nurgle Daemon from the new codex gives all nurgle characters in that detachment the following rule:



Seems pretty awesome if you manage to buff PBC, Blight Drone or Bligh Haulers with this.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 17:54:47


Post by: Nightlord1987


Nice, Malefic Talons get a big buff now too!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 20:02:52


Post by: buddha


So much demon of nurgle in the DG stuff that benefits from a herald nearby. PBCs and Bloat drones are my immediate thoughts but possessed and demon princes could be fun too.

If that herald takes the virulence power that could turn a 1 damage attack into 4 with the loci 0.o


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/28 20:09:56


Post by: dan2026


Plague burst Crawlers with a cheap Herald and a Lord.
Give the Lord the Arch Contaminator warlord trait.

Rerolling 1s to hit and rerolling all wounds as well as doing +1 damage.
Can also hide at the back of the table indirect firing.

The Herald might also have some good psychic powers for further buffs.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/29 12:29:14


Post by: Wayniac


How have people been finding the Myphitic Blight-Hauler now that it's finally out? I bought 3 to use as anti-tank in my 2k list, but haven't had a chance to use them yet.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/29 15:36:14


Post by: Fenris-77


They could be OK. I think they're inefficient compared to the Crawler, points-wise, but they aren't bad for what they do. They have decent speed in an army that needs it and they can zip around at full speed and fire w/out penalty. If you have three they hit on threes which might convince the opponent to concentrate on them early, which would be an excellent result for you.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/29 16:29:08


Post by: Dew


Worth 426 point for 3 of them though? Almost a quarter of your army in those 3 models


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/29 16:48:06


Post by: Fenris-77


They;re T7 3+/5++ always in cover. That's at least in the vicinity of a Russ for the points (right? right?!). My main concern for the points is that they are under-gunned and the HtH doesn't make up for it. Fun, but not terribly efficient.

It's closer to 20% than 25% too. Not that changes the efficiency question. I'll mostly take a Crawler over a Hauler in a list that isn't casual. For casual play the Hauler is fine.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/29 16:52:45


Post by: snottlebocket


 Fenris-77 wrote:
They;re T7 3+/5++ always in cover. That's at least in the vicinity of a Russ for the points (right? right?!). My main concern for the points is that they are under-gunned and the HtH doesn't make up for it. Fun, but not terribly efficient.

It's closer to 20% than 25% too. Not that changes the efficiency question. I'll mostly take a Crawler over a Hauler in a list that isn't casual. For casual play the Hauler is fine.


They're not always in cover. Their aura only works on infantry.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/29 17:18:01


Post by: Fenris-77


Ahh. Well never mind then. Durp. You'd think the boldface keyword might have clued me in.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/30 05:05:54


Post by: Claas


I want to try a Foetid Bloat Drone with fleshmower or a dual malefic Demon Prince buffed with virulent blessing , blades of putrification, locus fo virulence. Thats a lot of damage on a 7+.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/30 06:48:58


Post by: SilverAlien


I feel the need to point out that it's highly likely that you will need an entire detachment with the daemon faction keyword for the special abilities to go into effect, which the various deathguard daemon engines lack. They have the daemon keyword but not the faction keyword.

It's just a guess, but it seems logical to assume.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/30 09:05:49


Post by: Claas


SilverAlien wrote:
I feel the need to point out that it's highly likely that you will need an entire detachment with the daemon faction keyword for the special abilities to go into effect, which the various deathguard daemon engines lack. They have the daemon keyword but not the faction keyword.

It's just a guess, but it seems logical to assume.


Yes most likely, luckily a patrol of a Herald and some nurglings is cheap.and the nurglings synergize well and can get focus on your attackers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/30 14:48:32


Post by: snottlebocket


I'd be surprised if nurglings stay troops. They're far too cheap and useful for that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/30 15:03:33


Post by: Fenris-77


snottlebocket wrote:
I'd be surprised if nurglings stay troops. They're far too cheap and useful for that.
They've always been troops. I don't see that changing just because they might be useful.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/30 23:16:31


Post by: Zid


 dan2026 wrote:
Plague burst Crawlers with a cheap Herald and a Lord.
Give the Lord the Arch Contaminator warlord trait.

Rerolling 1s to hit and rerolling all wounds as well as doing +1 damage.
Can also hide at the back of the table indirect firing.

The Herald might also have some good psychic powers for further buffs.


How do we get to reroll all wounds on entropy cannons, they're not plague weapons... I never got this lol

That said, the new Nurgle daemons are pretty exciting for Deathguard players!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 02:41:04


Post by: akwing00


Has anyone had a chance to try out any of the forgeworld units that are available to the DG?

Specifically looking at the decimator, levithan, deredeo, and Contemptors. Would love to know which models and weapon configurations have found success on the table top before making the plunge purchasing anything.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 18:29:00


Post by: orkswubwub


Its possible to take DG units not in the codex? For example, obliterators or mutilators? As long as they are "NURGLE" and "DEATHGUARD"?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 19:29:22


Post by: demontalons


You can take them but you lose deathguard relics and legion tactic as it becomes a nurgle list and not a death guard list


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 19:50:34


Post by: snottlebocket


demontalons wrote:
You can take them but you lose deathguard relics and legion tactic as it becomes a nurgle list and not a death guard list


Not quite. Legion tactics only require the army to be battle forged. Relics and strategems require you to have at least one deathguard detachment.

An army with 1 legal death guard detachment and 1 legal generic chaos detachment...

- is battleforged, because all your units are in proper detachments
- has access to deathguard relics and stratagems because you have a DG detachment (all units in this detachment have the DG keyword)
- has access to generic chaos relics and strategems because you have a generic chaos detachment
- can have either a chaos or deathguard warlord with the associated traits picks


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 20:47:37


Post by: orkswubwub


So unless I had a second DG detachment in the army, I would not get access to strats or relics if I ran lets say DG mutilators. But if I run DG mutilators in a separate detachment from a full DG detachment - I would be able to use the DG strats on the mutilators?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 20:56:17


Post by: BrianDavion


orkswubwub wrote:
So unless I had a second DG detachment in the army, I would not get access to strats or relics if I ran lets say DG mutilators. But if I run DG mutilators in a separate detachment from a full DG detachment - I would be able to use the DG strats on the mutilators?


yes.so long as the DG strat affected heretic astaretes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2017/12/31 21:18:13


Post by: orkswubwub


I don't want to derail the thread into a rules thread but to make it crystal clear:

Detachment A: Mortarion
Detachment B: DG with mutilators (all declared DG)

Can Mortarion use Miasma of Pest and other psyker spells on the mutilators?

Can I use Cloud of Flies on the Mutilators?

What if Detachment B was a mixed bag (TS / DG) but the mutilators were DG?

From my reading of the RAW it seems this set-up allows all of the above to be done on the Mutilators.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/01 01:28:08


Post by: Jidmah


You cannot declare any unit that is in Codex: CSM to be of the legion death guard unless it can also be found in Codex: Deathguard (CSM codex explicitly disallows this).

In addition, you can only declare units from Index: Chaos as Deathguard if they are both in the list for the Deathguard and also not in Codex: CSM (you are not allowed to take datasheets from the index if a newer one exists in a codex).

Therefore you cannot chose "Deathguard" to be your legion keyword for mutilators. The same is true for any unit that is not in the codex or on the list in the index.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/01 06:25:42


Post by: Nightlord1987


Legion tactics require the entire detachment to share the <Legion> keyword. Access to Stratagems requires a <Keyword>detachment of the faction. The relics are available to the detachment the Warlord belongs to, but can also be accessed through the appropriate Relics stratagem from the Faction.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/01 10:17:55


Post by: Jidmah


All Death Guard stratagems, psyker powers and aura buffs (except daemon prince) require the affected units to have the legion keyword <Death Guard> and relics can only be given to <Death Guard> characters.

So no matter what you do, you can never buff Mutilators with Cloud of Flies.

Just for completion, the only units that can replace the <Legion> keyword with <Death Guard> that are not in Codex: DG are Chaos Lord on Palanquin of Nurgle and Sorcerer on Palangquin of Nurgle.

The reason why you can use Codex: CSM stuff for Death Guard is because a lot of those rules refer to "Heretic Astartes". Those work on DG as well, but the other way around does not work.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/02 03:46:43


Post by: Tiberius501


Hey guys, if I were to run a half DG half Nurgle Daemons army, what sort of units compliment each other from each? What roles do they overlap in and what units can be taken to mitigate weaknesses in either?

I've been inspired by the coming of the new Great Unclean One and Horticulous coming to 40k, and want to add in a small branch of daemons. (Horticulous spawning some portal tree sounds somewhat awesome).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/02 06:54:16


Post by: Nightlord1987


Plague Bearers can camp well. Nurglings are a good speed-bump. Plague drones can escort a daemon prince. No experience with Beasts, but I use Spawn similarly to harass anything they can catch.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/02 08:08:20


Post by: Mothboi666


Has anyone tried or had success with plague bearers? Thinking 2 lord of contagions deel striking in summoing 2 big blobs 15+ models of plague bearers, having to wait one turn to summon from ds and forgoing movement could be a problem but i really want to make it work in a mono death guard list. Cheers


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/02 11:59:18


Post by: Tiberius501


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plague Bearers can camp well. Nurglings are a good speed-bump. Plague drones can escort a daemon prince. No experience with Beasts, but I use Spawn similarly to harass anything they can catch.


Awesome, good to know. Seems like practically the whole Nurgle Daemon range is worth using then


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/02 12:07:11


Post by: blackmage


Pb+herald+epidemius ( in a mono nurgle) works great.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/03 11:30:35


Post by: Typhusjnr


I have now played a few games with mortarion and have found him to be underwhelming at best . He has never made it past turn 2 and doesn’t even get close to getting his points back. I have been using belakor for warp time though all that tends to happen is that he will smash a screening unit and then get killed. Granted , it tends to take the whole army to take him down which provides cover for the rest but for the same points you can get 3 bloatdrone which have 30 wounds , can be hidden and put out good firepower. Anyone else struggling with morty?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/03 14:44:56


Post by: blackmage


Typhusjnr wrote:
I have now played a few games with mortarion and have found him to be underwhelming at best . He has never made it past turn 2 and doesn’t even get close to getting his points back. I have been using belakor for warp time though all that tends to happen is that he will smash a screening unit and then get killed. Granted , it tends to take the whole army to take him down which provides cover for the rest but for the same points you can get 3 bloatdrone which have 30 wounds , can be hidden and put out good firepower. Anyone else struggling with morty?

is what im saying since time, when you play in high competitive enviroment against skilled players, Mortarions is just a distraction, he will never pay back, then if you play casual games with average players he can become nearly unstoppable. I stopped play him cause i play in high competitive field and i prefer play 3-4 bloat drones.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/03 17:30:02


Post by: Fenris-77


 blackmage wrote:
Typhusjnr wrote:
I have now played a few games with mortarion and have found him to be underwhelming at best . He has never made it past turn 2 and doesn’t even get close to getting his points back. I have been using belakor for warp time though all that tends to happen is that he will smash a screening unit and then get killed. Granted , it tends to take the whole army to take him down which provides cover for the rest but for the same points you can get 3 bloatdrone which have 30 wounds , can be hidden and put out good firepower. Anyone else struggling with morty?

is what im saying since time, when you play in high competitive enviroment against skilled players, Mortarions is just a distraction, he will never pay back, then if you play casual games with average players he can become nearly unstoppable. I stopped play him cause i play in high competitive field and i prefer play 3-4 bloat drones.
Deepstriking him, which seems like it's going to be a thing, might improve this a little, but you're still going to run into the same sorts of problems in high-competitive environment.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/03 19:38:55


Post by: Elgrun


So to be clear, I lose the deathguards inexorable advance rule when including nurgle demons in a detachment, but I can still use warlords traits, stratagems and artefacts


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/03 20:55:59


Post by: blackmage


 Fenris-77 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
Typhusjnr wrote:
I have now played a few games with mortarion and have found him to be underwhelming at best . He has never made it past turn 2 and doesn’t even get close to getting his points back. I have been using belakor for warp time though all that tends to happen is that he will smash a screening unit and then get killed. Granted , it tends to take the whole army to take him down which provides cover for the rest but for the same points you can get 3 bloatdrone which have 30 wounds , can be hidden and put out good firepower. Anyone else struggling with morty?

is what im saying since time, when you play in high competitive enviroment against skilled players, Mortarions is just a distraction, he will never pay back, then if you play casual games with average players he can become nearly unstoppable. I stopped play him cause i play in high competitive field and i prefer play 3-4 bloat drones.
Deepstriking him, which seems like it's going to be a thing, might improve this a little, but you're still going to run into the same sorts of problems in high-competitive environment.

not really, if you keep Mortarion/magnus in deep strike they are untouchable 1st turn then they deep strike 9" and they could just warptime them closer, is not the same, then of course they are exposed but at least the can deal some damage b4 being wiped out.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/03 21:15:09


Post by: Nightlord1987


 Elgrun wrote:
So to be clear, I lose the deathguards inexorable advance rule when including nurgle demons in a detachment, but I can still use warlords traits, stratagems and artefacts


You need one pure DG detachment to get the Strategems. Warlord traits, and artifacts just require a Death Guard Character.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 01:17:30


Post by: Tiberius501


If the deepstrike strat works for Mortarion, that could potentially be nuts, couldn't it?

Even crazier would be deepstriking Mortarion along with a GUO


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 05:20:00


Post by: ZergSmasher


Typhusjnr wrote:
I have now played a few games with mortarion and have found him to be underwhelming at best . He has never made it past turn 2 and doesn’t even get close to getting his points back. I have been using belakor for warp time though all that tends to happen is that he will smash a screening unit and then get killed. Granted , it tends to take the whole army to take him down which provides cover for the rest but for the same points you can get 3 bloatdrone which have 30 wounds , can be hidden and put out good firepower. Anyone else struggling with morty?

I think Morty, as well as a lot of big scary centerpiece units, tends to be either a hero or a zero. I've only fielded him in one tournament and I'd have to agree that he's too unreliable to be worth spending 1/4 of your available points on. In that tournament, I had him absolutely wreck face in the first game, but then in the second he got blown away before he accomplished anything (didn't help that I got second turn against Tau commander spam). In the third game, he was somewhere in between, because while he did kill some stuff and his aura handed out plenty of mortal wounds, he just didn't really make his points back and I still lost the game. So I'd have to agree that he's not good for super-competitive play. He could be good for hustling small local tournaments though as against an unprepared opponent he'll wreck face.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 06:04:52


Post by: Jidmah


So, I've finally played my first few DG games, and have one big question:

How am I supposed to use a Lord of Contagion? Statwise, Lord of Contagion with a plague reaper is a warboss that's very hard to kill, but he simply doesn't get into combat.

If I deploy him behind my army, he will lag behind (even with Noxious Blightbringer providing him with re-rolls to advance) and he will do a lot of nothing, except provide the army with the Arch-Contaminator bubble.

If I try to deep strike, he will be outside of 9" of an enemy, so he will most likely fail the charge. Afterwards he goes back to be being really slow and not catching anything of worth.
Even if a bunch of units charge other than him, they tend to be outside of his nurgle's gift aura as most good combatants cannot conga-line because drones, terminators, haulers or princes are either single models or you want all of them in combat instead of that 4+ roll.

As he completely lacks shooting (not even grenades), his only role seems to be a counter-charge unit. I was facing eldar, imperal fists and dark angels in my games, none of them had any interest in engaging my army in combat, making him a waste of points.

The only thing that seems to work with well nurgle's gift is pox walkers and those benefit a lot more from Typhus. Why wouldn't I just always save my points and use them to upgrade a plague caster to Typhus instead und use the rest of the point to get a chaos lord?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 11:52:59


Post by: blackmage


well... Loc is a nice distraction , he cant be ignored long and pretty durable for his cost, drop it near a veichle or near a heavy weapon squad, then they must decide, stay still and shoot as best as they can but get caught in melee next turn or move and shoot worse, is quite annoying , sit his ass on a objective in cover and force enemy to shoot at him, wasting lot of firepower, for 117pts could be worth play it, of couse is not a 1st HQ choice but for me is solid.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 14:33:16


Post by: Jidmah


So basically deep strike him ASAP and just walk him into the middle of the enemy army?

The eldar would just have moved away, and marines can still move 6" and just keep blasting him till dead. It would have caused the DA hellblasters to lose their re-rolls though.

Well, I guess if I had blightlords he would be another thorn in their side. I'll give your advice a go next time.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 14:37:01


Post by: Captyn_Bob


So .. Nurgle faction focus.
That blight tree. Wow


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously looking at DG possessed, so help me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/04 17:05:35


Post by: blackmage


 Jidmah wrote:
So basically deep strike him ASAP and just walk him into the middle of the enemy army?

The eldar would just have moved away, and marines can still move 6" and just keep blasting him till dead. It would have caused the DA hellblasters to lose their re-rolls though.

Well, I guess if I had blightlords he would be another thorn in their side. I'll give your advice a go next time.

that's why you must choose where drop, marine can move ok... lets' move those razorbacks and make then hit at -1. U can have warptime available so you can charge the turn you deep strike. I really dont understand why so many issues with Loc... he has same problems any other deep striking units can have.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/06 17:15:28


Post by: Tiberius501


Is anyone else finding Death Guard hard to make good fun lists, or is it just me?

I've spent a lot of money on DG, and since its release I've been really trying to make an army I feel good about but I can never seem to make it work. It seem like you have to spam a unit and make your list about that unit, but that's not what I like doing. Factions like IG are so cheap you can chuck what you want in, and even space marines can fit a nice variety of units in, but I dunno, DG just never sits right for me.

But... I can't just leave them because of all that money I've spent...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/06 17:42:22


Post by: Nightlord1987


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Is anyone else finding Death Guard hard to make good fun lists, or is it just me?

I've spent a lot of money on DG, and since its release I've been really trying to make an army I feel good about but I can never seem to make it work. It seem like you have to spam a unit and make your list about that unit, but that's not what I like doing. Factions like IG are so cheap you can chuck what you want in, and even space marines can fit a nice variety of units in, but I dunno, DG just never sits right for me.

But... I can't just leave them because of all that money I've spent...


My only issue has been fitting all the fun stuff in with the competitive stuff. If I want a pox walker farm, I miss out on shooting. If I put in Shooty stuff, my CC is hit. I'm also trying to showcase my new models into lists and some of them are just points sinks. I'm going to play a list tomorrow with my Blight Lord Terminators, a Helbrute, and a Lord of Contagion and I just know it will be a bad list but it LOOKS so cool!

I have a good balance with mixed lists, adding in IW for oblits and a solid Daemon Prince or Sorcerer access, it's the pure DG lists I always lose something vital to add something in.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/06 17:52:30


Post by: Tiberius501


Yeah that’s exactly my issue. I can’t have a cool looking list but have it perform well. And I can’t fit everything I like into my lists. Most other armies I make I can chuck in everything and I’m happy. But I’ve been struggling, since they first came out, to put in all the stuff I like but also have it work well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/06 18:14:00


Post by: Nightlord1987


The only possible solution I've found is smaller sized games with different lists. My gaming group is stuck on 2000 pts being the norm. We also play Maelstrom missions so every list has to be adaptive to the Drunken Commander board jumping. And, w usually just do pick up games on our Gaming night so lists have to be TAC also. Even still, my CSM and Death Guard armies have never been in a better place. My other 2 armies, Orks and Biker Space Marines are Shelved indefinitely.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/06 19:30:40


Post by: blackmage


my tournament experiences with a pure Dg list are unfair, you need mix, Dg and alpha legion works great togheter,some hard hitters which can take lot of punishment and some infantry mass infiltrate and annoy opponent, giving screen for ds and unwilling charges and when needed some cheap cannon fodder.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/06 20:22:52


Post by: Fueli


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The only possible solution I've found is smaller sized games with different lists. My gaming group is stuck on 2000 pts being the norm. We also play Maelstrom missions so every list has to be adaptive to the Drunken Commander board jumping. And, w usually just do pick up games on our Gaming night so lists have to be TAC also. Even still, my CSM and Death Guard armies have never been in a better place. My other 2 armies, Orks and Biker Space Marines are Shelved indefinitely.


Want good missions?

Run one maelstrom and one eternal war together simultaneously. Nerf speedy armies by only allowing three maelstrom cards to be scored per turn and don't allow scoring duplicates in the same turn.

Works pretty well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 01:17:25


Post by: Danny76


Hey all, I have some questions about building a list for all of my pus ridden brethren.

I’m hoping to build a list with as much of the current bits I have. (Both the Dark Vengeance box set and Dark Imperium)
I had a few questions about some other models I had laying about that if possible I would like to include here.

I have 2 Rhino’s, that I could nurglify, but is it worth having them? (I’d have two units of 7 from the sets).
I have a Plagueburst Crawler also, and an additional 40 cultists (bringing it up to 60 from the set).

How much of this is realistically usable?
I’m thinking of 1000 (and 1500 points at the most) currently, but in time maybe 2k using Mortarion.
If you are unfamiliar with the contents of the starters, once I get home I will write all this up into a list.

Thanks in advance!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 02:01:28


Post by: blackmage


anything you listed is usable, 7+7 Pm's in rhino are common, cultists are a must pbc are good and durable but i prefer bloated drones honestly.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 02:10:46


Post by: Kzraahk


Bloat Drones are awesome, but PBCs fill a completely different role. Drones wreck infantry and light vehicles, but they won't really do much against T8 stuff by themselves. That's where Crawlers come in


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 02:21:09


Post by: Luciferian


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah that’s exactly my issue. I can’t have a cool looking list but have it perform well. And I can’t fit everything I like into my lists. Most other armies I make I can chuck in everything and I’m happy. But I’ve been struggling, since they first came out, to put in all the stuff I like but also have it work well.


Same here. Speaking of, now that we can apparently deep strike Morty, there's a Nurgle Daemons detachment for me to shove in as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 09:41:07


Post by: Tiberius501


 Luciferian wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah that’s exactly my issue. I can’t have a cool looking list but have it perform well. And I can’t fit everything I like into my lists. Most other armies I make I can chuck in everything and I’m happy. But I’ve been struggling, since they first came out, to put in all the stuff I like but also have it work well.


Same here. Speaking of, now that we can apparently deep strike Morty, there's a Nurgle Daemons detachment for me to shove in as well.


Yeah that’s what I’ve been trying to do myself haha. I think I’ll keep the daemon side fairly light, taking mostly plaguebearers and nurglings. Deepstriking mortarion is going to awesome though


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 10:20:19


Post by: blackmage


Kzraahk wrote:
Bloat Drones are awesome, but PBCs fill a completely different role. Drones wreck infantry and light vehicles, but they won't really do much against T8 stuff by themselves. That's where Crawlers come in

hoenstly pbc are too unreliable to wreack veichles they hit on 4+ and they cant move, or they suck points for stratagem, too much armies has a -1 to hit. When i played pbc i gave it plaguespitters as well. If you want deal with tanks you need to play terminators or Dp's or ally vanilla chaos for obly/havocs/predators, im playing Dg since the day codex came out and they will always lack ranged anti tank.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 10:41:01


Post by: snottlebocket


 blackmage wrote:
Kzraahk wrote:
Bloat Drones are awesome, but PBCs fill a completely different role. Drones wreck infantry and light vehicles, but they won't really do much against T8 stuff by themselves. That's where Crawlers come in

hoenstly pbc are too unreliable to wreack veichles they hit on 4+ and they cant move, or they suck points for stratagem, too much armies has a -1 to hit. When i played pbc i gave it plaguespitters as well. If you want deal with tanks you need to play terminators or Dp's or ally vanilla chaos for obly/havocs/predators, im playing Dg since the day codex came out and they will always lack ranged anti tank.


Mine have been wrecking tanks pretty reliably. I bring 3 with a lord for the rerolls. On average they delete a dreadnought or a tank per turn. Which is a fine pace considering they're very hard to remove and so is the rest of my army. I usually spend a command point to reroll the number of shots on an especially low roll. At that point they're rerolling 1's to hit. Rerolling failed wounds thanks to arch contaminator. And rerolling low numbers of shots.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 12:28:13


Post by: blackmage


start play with fast armies giving you -1/-2 to hit and lets see, that's what you find at major tournaments.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 15:30:36


Post by: Ecdain


 blackmage wrote:
start play with fast armies giving you -1/-2 to hit and lets see, that's what you find at major tournaments.


I play my dg v a LOT of -1 to hit (stygies admech, AL marines, De, etc.) And even hitting on 5s my 3 pbc have always been worth it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 15:56:36


Post by: buddha


I play tournaments and tournament level players as well and I still bring two PBCs. In fact, I find the best combo with 2 PBCs, 2-5 man plague marine squads with blight launchers, and a cheap chaos lord (archcontamintor warlord) to from my firebase. They are re-rolling ones and re-rolling almost all wounds.

Even against altioc eldar they still hit well enough and are super points efficient with entropy cannons at 146. PBCs always draw a lot of firepower which is that much less at my other units.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/07 18:17:36


Post by: Zid


 buddha wrote:
I play tournaments and tournament level players as well and I still bring two PBCs. In fact, I find the best combo with 2 PBCs, 2-5 man plague marine squads with blight launchers, and a cheap chaos lord (archcontamintor warlord) to from my firebase. They are re-rolling ones and re-rolling almost all wounds.

Even against altioc eldar they still hit well enough and are super points efficient with entropy cannons at 146. PBCs always draw a lot of firepower which is that much less at my other units.


Thats... a cool ass strategy. I think I need to get another 2 blight launcher PM's and try this!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 15:50:22


Post by: BrotherGecko


So are Blight Haulers actually any good? I can't decide if I want 3 of them or 2 more blight drones.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 17:16:46


Post by: Kaiyanwang


 BrotherGecko wrote:
So are Blight Haulers actually any good? I can't decide if I want 3 of them or 2 more blight drones.


Depends from the context.
How many, and which units of infantry do you have?
Which other, if any, anti-tank options do you have?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 17:24:26


Post by: Fenris-77


Stacked with a tree Infantry would be getting +3 cover. There has to be an efficient application for that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 17:48:05


Post by: Danny76


Ok, so the list as it stands is below:

Chaos Lord, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword -85
Lord of Contagion, Plaguereaper -130
Malignant Plaguecaster -110

20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Poxwalkers -120
7 Plague Marines, Plasma Gun -145
7 Plague Marines, ?? -119 (these are chosen from DVengeance, so unsure on setup yet.
Rhino -72
Rhino -72

Noxious Blithtbringer -65

Plagueburst Crawler, Heavy Slugger, 2 Plague Spitters ???? -140


How’s that for starters?
It comes to 1634 I think, so what would you take out to make both 1000 and 1500 points lists?
I’m guessing dropping characters for a start, and maybe drop one set of Marines and Rhino, and be rid of one set of Cultists.
That’d make about 1200ish I think.

Any thoughts and advice?
Cheers!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 17:52:45


Post by: blackmage


 Fenris-77 wrote:
Stacked with a tree Infantry would be getting +3 cover. There has to be an efficient application for that.

no only +1 they doesn't stack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Danny76 wrote:
Ok, so the list as it stands is below:

Chaos Lord, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword -85
Lord of Contagion, Plaguereaper -130
Malignant Plaguecaster -110

20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Cultists, Heavy stubber, flamer -93
20 Poxwalkers -120
7 Plague Marines, Plasma Gun -145
7 Plague Marines, ?? -119 (these are chosen from DVengeance, so unsure on setup yet.
Rhino -72
Rhino -72

Noxious Blithtbringer -65

Plagueburst Crawler, Heavy Slugger, 2 Plague Spitters ???? -140


How’s that for starters?
It comes to 1634 I think, so what would you take out to make both 1000 and 1500 points lists?
I’m guessing dropping characters for a start, and maybe drop one set of Marines and Rhino, and be rid of one set of Cultists.
That’d make about 1200ish I think.

Any thoughts and advice?
Cheers!

honestly i will go for Thypus and no lord of contagion, add 20 more poxes and you ok.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [84 PL, 1413pts] ++

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 72pts]: Combi-bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 93pts]: Combi-plasma, Plaguebringer, The Suppurating Plate arch contaminator, warlord

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Plague Wind

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

+ Elites +

Noxious Blightbringer [4 PL, 65pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 80pts]: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 80pts]: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 153pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [10 PL, 153pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

++ Total: [84 PL, 1439pts] ++

you still have about 60pts to spend, maybe if you like take out the malignant and some cultists for a Dp so you have some heavy CaC, or a bubotic axe+flail to each squad ofPlague marines.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 19:33:40


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Foul Blightspawn is so ridiculously effective in the pox list I can't see how you can leave home without minimum one,
And much more preferably two. Biologus Putrifier/Tallyman are also effective choices.

I think you run either vehicles or Plague Marines in 1500 with the pox element, but not both - you just can't fit it for points. The Chaos Lord is only needed with Plague Marines. Fugaris Helm + Arch Contaminator can be given to a Plaguecaster or Putrifier.

The Entropy Cannons on the crawler are awful, never a reason not to take Spitters as side sponsons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 21:52:50


Post by: blackmage


entropy cannons can take out those annoying heavy tanks, you dont need to move it and if you do you have the stratagem, i was trying to keep the list as much as similar than the topic author did, i dont play a list like that, i play Dg+alpha legion,always.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 22:14:56


Post by: Jidmah


 BrotherGecko wrote:
So are Blight Haulers actually any good? I can't decide if I want 3 of them or 2 more blight drones.


I have found mine (I have one so far) to be a great jack of all trades. The two anti-tank options are decent, but needed help from blight launchers and smite to actually kill something in one turn. Due to 10" move I never had the multi-melta out of range of my targets, and more often than not, it would find itself inside 12" of something to melt. If both weapons hit, they usually wound and do a lot of damage. A unit of 3 probably has no issues deleting whatever they feel like.

On top of that it is a good screen/counter-assault unit as it is hard to destroy in combat (-1 to hit on top of drone statline) and tends to bite the head off one or two enemies. I had it moving in front of my plague marines, so they would still be in the 7" aura and anything that wanted to assault them had to get around it, and it protected them from deep strikes from the front.

More anecdotal, it assassinated Cypher in one of my games by simply driving up to him around his screen, blasting him with multi-melta, missile launcher and bile spurt.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 23:02:34


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 blackmage wrote:
entropy cannons can take out those annoying heavy tanks, you dont need to move it and if you do you have the stratagem, i was trying to keep the list as much as similar than the topic author did, i dont play a list like that, i play Dg+alpha legion,always.


Sure, but in the author's original list he had Plague Spitters on the Crawler which you changed to Entropy Cannons, which is quite the heavy downgrade for the poxwalker style of list with Arch Contaminator

If a long range anti-tank element is required in general, much better off going with a Predator over a Plagueburst Crawler entirely. Crawler's BS4, BS5 when damaged hurts too much for AT role when opponent starts bringing -1 to hit mods and you have to move. Wasting stratagem CP point for a BS increase in very limited CP list to hit on 5s is not good. Predator with Lord starting at BS3 rerolling 1's is better.

Crawler is good with spitters in this type of list, can advance quickly with Blightbringer support to flame infantry squads to make new poxwalkers, and is always a serious threat in the role regardless of damage taken. When advancing you can hide behind it with characters/clouded infantry squad. Spitters reroll all wounds with Arch Contaminator


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 23:19:35


Post by: Kzraahk


Difference is Preedators don't last a lot if they get focused. I've only had a PBC taken down once


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/08 23:38:43


Post by: buddha


While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 00:25:58


Post by: blackmage


 buddha wrote:
While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.

that's the point, if you want anti tank in a pure Dg you dont have many options, predator go down in 1 single turn, and yes spitters 100% better in bloated drones, i play always 3 of them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 00:47:18


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Kzraahk wrote:Difference is Preedators don't last a lot if they get focused. I've only had a PBC taken down once


Sure and for that reason why would you even focus a PBC with Entropy cannons, with your own long range anti tank. It's too weak of a threat. It takes punishment well but at the same time does very little back, with what it can even hit with 36" range.

A Predator can sit back and at least threaten Eldar/RavenGuard/Alpha Legion/Dark Angels/ anything that popped smoke, T8, etc etc. Personally in a pox list I don't even bother with the Predator over Foul Blight Spawns and mortal wound givers in the horde of infantry, but if I did for some reason want a sit back and plink firebase vehicle it wouldn't be a PBC.

buddha wrote:While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.


The PBC vs the FBD you pay less points for the privilege of more flexibility, that's a rarity. Yes the FBD has FLY keyword and +1M, but it clearly pays a heavy premium in points for that ability when you compare to the PBC cost, who has T8 to T7, +1S and +2W on a generous damage chart. 100% better FBD is beyond exaggeration, all it does is move +1" more, and FLY. It doesn't also have a no LOS mortar and Heavy Stubber (more like Heavy Bolter) it can opt to use.

PBC can chip away at range while retaining the threat of a fast advance up and using the powerful spitters. FBD has to go forward always or it does nothing.

People have tried to 'mathhammer' the Entropy Cannon PBC as being good (in comparison to range tank duels with a predator) while in the reality of a competitive 40k environment it is anything but. There is no value in a unit that is only 'good' for tank dueling without even factoring in hit modifiers and short range.
There is value in a no line of sight weapon in the PB mortar, on a tough chassis, that also has access to the really strong Dual Plague Spitter weapon.

I play both PBC and FBD in my list. They are not the same but they are both strong.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 01:13:54


Post by: buddha


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Kzraahk wrote:

buddha wrote:While the PBC is an all rounder with entropy cannons (and a cheap fire magnet at that) there is zero reason to take a PBC if you take spitters because the bloat drone performs that role 100% better. Hell, not being able to be locked in combat alone puts the drone above the PBC if you are wanting to be close.

I don't think it can be argued that the entropy cannons are the best anti-tank with its 4+ to hit base but with them the PBC far more survivable then the predator while maintaining a good ranged multi-damage threat.


The PBC vs the FBD you pay less points for the privilege of more flexibility, that's a rarity. Yes the FBD has FLY keyword and +1M, but it clearly pays a heavy premium in points for that ability when you compare to the PBC cost, who has T8 to T7, +1S and +2W on a generous damage chart. 100% better FBD is beyond exaggeration, all it does is move +1" more, and FLY. It doesn't also have a no LOS mortar and Heavy Stubber (more like Heavy Bolter) it can opt to use.

PBC can chip away at range while retaining the threat of a fast advance up and using the powerful spitters. FBD has to go forward always or it does nothing.

People have tried to 'mathhammer' the Entropy Cannon PBC as being good (in comparison to range tank duels with a predator) while in the reality of a competitive 40k environment it is anything but. There is no value in a unit that is only 'good' for tank dueling without even factoring in hit modifiers and short range.
There is value in a no line of sight weapon in the PB mortar, on a tough chassis, that also has access to the really strong Dual Plague Spitter weapon.

I play both PBC and FBD in my list. They are not the same but they are both strong.


With respect, you are ignoring both mathhammer (which cannot be argued with;statistics are facts) but also that trying to get close with a PBC to use plaugespitters will just lead it being locked in combat full stop. If you want plaugespitters, you take a bloat drone. If your arguments is that the PBC is bad I can understand that perspective, but if you take one you should be taking it with entropy cannons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 02:57:54


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


buddha wrote:

With respect, you are ignoring both mathhammer (which cannot be argued with;statistics are facts) but also that trying to get close with a PBC to use plaugespitters will just lead it being locked in combat full stop. If you want plaugespitters, you take a bloat drone. If your arguments is that the PBC is bad I can understand that perspective, but if you take one you should be taking it with entropy cannons.


I'm not 'ignoring mathhammer'. I understand fully the very limited mathematical scenarios some people use to make a poor case for why the Entropy Cannons are good - these people ignore too many other variables and the realities of competitive 40k/listbuilding.
The PBC on it's first damage profile can advance 9 + D6 (2 dice highest with NoxB", shoot 9" for a max 24" threat. It's not easy to prevent it firing it's Plague Spitters if it chooses to do so. Sure it *might* get locked in combat (after overwatching) the following turn, but that's the following turn: it's already done it's job for you.

I take both drone and PBC, all with spitters. Spitters are too good not to take in any scenario for current competitive meta, either underpriced relative to everything else or everything else is overpriced. Entropy Cannons cost needs to be cut in half to even meet consideration.

If you don't like the idea of your plague spitters maybe being locked in combat after firing, then take all FBDs You will pay more points to lose toughness, wounds, mortars + HBs. Paying more points to lose scenario flexibility, toughness and other firepower- not good in competitive list hlbuilding.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 06:35:18


Post by: Tiberius501


So I'm thinking something along these lines:

Lord of contagion, plaguecaster, Mortarion, 3 units of plague marines with blight launchers, some Deathshroud, a couple of PBC, and then use a patrol detachment with the new herald that helps plaguebearers and a blob of plaguebearers.

Use all my CP's to teleport the plaguebearers, herald and Morty alongside his Deathshroud while the marines cap objectives and the PBC shoot tanks and cover the melee assault


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 06:48:55


Post by: Jidmah


Please provide your own math on how predators are better than PBC.

Calling the argument bad does not disprove it. While I'm willing to believe you, you have provided no proof for your claims yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So I'm thinking something along these lines:

Lord of contagion, plaguecaster, Mortarion, 3 units of plague marines with blight launchers, some Deathshroud, a couple of PBC, and then use a patrol detachment with the new herald that helps plaguebearers and a blob of plaguebearers.

Use all my CP's to teleport the plaguebearers, herald and Morty alongside his Deathshroud while the marines cap objectives and the PBC shoot tanks and cover the melee assault


You could also add a second Codexaemon character to make his locus buff the PBC with +1 damage.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 07:06:25


Post by: ultrapogo


I'm participating in a friendly 1000 pt tournament with some friends. Most are new to the game including myself and I was having trouble deciding on a list to run. I'll be facing a variety of armies (Tau, Necron, Ork, Dark Angels, Thousand Sons, Admech, Eldar). List rules were relics, warlord traits and psychic powers can change between games and no LOW. Here are the 2 lists I'm considering on running. Any suggestions are welcome.

Spoiler:

+ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [65 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 48pts]: 11x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 44pts]: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 44pts]: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Elites +

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Total: [65 PL, 1000pts] ++


Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [62 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: 6. Arch-Contaminator, Chainsword, Combi-bolter, Warlord

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: The Pandemic Staff

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 44pts]: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 44pts]: 10x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines [7 PL, 118pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 146pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Total: [62 PL, 1000pts] ++



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 07:17:14


Post by: SilverAlien


The second list is significantly better imo. A good starting point for a DG list is cultists/poxwalkers for screening and anti infantry, bloat drones with plague spitters for better anti infantry and mobility, and PBCs with entropy for anti tank.

Personally, I'd consider whether you are better served with the plague caster or running a demon prince for casting and melee carnage. Running a third set of cultists over PM might free those points up. Depends how you want to use them, more about preference than sheer power but I felt I needed to offer at least some sort of constructive criticism lol.

This needs repeating but pbcs just do not do well with plaguespitters. Moving makes their main weapon all but useless, and they don't work as well as drones do at short range in any case. Specialization always beats generalization.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 07:26:17


Post by: ultrapogo


SilverAlien wrote:
The second list is significantly better imo. A good starting point for a DG list is cultists/poxwalkers for screening and anti infantry, bloat drones with plague spitters for better anti infantry and mobility, and PBCs with entropy for anti tank.

Personally, I'd consider whether you are better served with the plague caster or running a demon prince for casting and melee carnage. Running a third set of cultists over PM might free those points up. Depends how you want to use them, more about preference than sheer power but I felt I needed to offer at least some sort of constructive criticism lol.

This needs repeating but pbcs just do not do well with plaguespitters. Moving makes their main weapon all but useless, and they don't work as well as drones do at short range in any case. Specialization always beats generalization.


Thanks for the advice
I was thinking of the plague caster to have more flexibility with my psychic powers, although I would only be swapping in Plague Wind for 30 ork boyz blobs. The PMs with blight launchers was to make use of the Arch-Contaminator on the lord.
The DP and FBDs have definitely been MVPs in my earlier games.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 08:55:47


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 Jidmah wrote:
Please provide your own math on how predators are better than PBC.

Calling the argument bad does not disprove it. While I'm willing to believe you, you have provided no proof for your claims yet.


"How predators are better than PBC" Is a statement that completely misses the forest for the trees. Competitive 40k isn't about building lists around dueling ranged tanks.

Nevertheless, here is a sample of some relevant PBC damage spread comparisons that you can use to draw conclusions: https://imgur.com/a/KoIgU

Of particular note is the absolutely awful performance on the Entropy cannon -2 to hit charts.

This needs repeating but pbcs just do not do well with plaguespitters. Moving makes their main weapon all but useless, and they don't work as well as drones do at short range in any case. Specialization always beats generalization.


This needs repeating but pbcs just do not do well with Entropy cannons. You are better off spending the points on different units entirely because in competitive, PBC with Entropy cannons make your large model a nice looking paperweight that can often be ignored
The main weapon is a nice tool to have (no LOS artillery is clutch in competitive for threatening to deny the ability for otherwise minimal model units to sit on an objective marker behind a building), and if you want that tool, always take 2 plague spitters because they are ridiculously strong weapon profile, and the more you can fit in your army the better.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
ultrapogo wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
The second list is significantly better imo. A good starting point for a DG list is cultists/poxwalkers for screening and anti infantry, bloat drones with plague spitters for better anti infantry and mobility, and PBCs with entropy for anti tank.

Personally, I'd consider whether you are better served with the plague caster or running a demon prince for casting and melee carnage. Running a third set of cultists over PM might free those points up. Depends how you want to use them, more about preference than sheer power but I felt I needed to offer at least some sort of constructive criticism lol.

This needs repeating but pbcs just do not do well with plaguespitters. Moving makes their main weapon all but useless, and they don't work as well as drones do at short range in any case. Specialization always beats generalization.


Thanks for the advice
I was thinking of the plague caster to have more flexibility with my psychic powers, although I would only be swapping in Plague Wind for 30 ork boyz blobs. The PMs with blight launchers was to make use of the Arch-Contaminator on the lord.
The DP and FBDs have definitely been MVPs in my earlier games.


The first list, if you drop one PBC and take 20 Poxwalkers (and have the models to spawn new poxwalkers), it looks incredibly powerful, much too powerful for a 1000 point 'friendly' tournament.

The second list is a lot friendlier, it will give good games but a lot is riding on the Foetid Bloat Drones, an opponent who can put one or both down in the first turn will have a fairly easy ride against you. Easier said than done in 1k points 'friendly' tournament, but if many other players decide to go not-so-friendly with what they bring, you could struggle.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 09:57:31


Post by: blackmage


but why the hell you must take spitters on pbc when you can play foetid bloat drones+pbc...like in the list above.
PS: take down 2 foetid drones 1st turn in 1000pt game? nearly impossible, you cant usually at 2000pts games, you can imagine at 1000pt, i really dont know what kind of warhammer you play.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 12:00:28


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 blackmage wrote:
but why the hell you must take spitters on pbc when you can play foetid bloat drones+pbc...like in the list above.
PS: take down 2 foetid drones 1st turn in 1000pt game? nearly impossible, you cant usually at 2000pts games, you can imagine at 1000pt, i really dont know what kind of warhammer you play.


I play competitive, lol.

2 first turn in 1000 is admittedly a stretch, but in 2000 is doable.

I take all Spitters on FBD and PBC in the same list. Why would you ever not take Spitters, they are both cheaper and better on PBC than Entropy, especially when you have Arch Contaminator on W/L. Entropy are just that bad for the points on BS4 platform, they need to be 15-20pts for upgrade and then at least it's providing a decision when listbuilding.

Honestly if Spitters weren't an option all things considered as they are now you would be better to take 3 Blight Haulers over 3 PBC with Entropy, sure you lose the Mortar/stubber fire power and comparative toughness but at least 3 Blight Haulers can actually be more reliable in their damage dealing role with their effective +2BS over the PBC.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 13:01:04


Post by: SilverAlien


.... are you actually claiming blight haulers put out more damaged for their cost than PBCs? That's just... /sigh. Blight haulers are notoriously awful damage for cost as anti tank weapons.

I have no idea why you hate entropy cannons on PBCs, but tricked out for anti tank a PBC puts out the same rough damage for cost as a lascannon predator and far more than blight haulers will, unless said hauler manages to sit and fire at 12" multiple turns in a row. Possibly even then as well.

PBC with plaguespitters are either sitting still, meaning too far back to fire plague spitters when entropy cannons could be firing adding more damage, or advancing, which ruins the main weapon's accuracy and puts the PBC at close range where it'll get at most a turn or two of shooting before getting bogged down in melee, a situation where it'll never earn its points back.

I'll do another cost breakdown during lunch comparing them again, just so we can move on.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 15:02:43


Post by: Jidmah


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
"How predators are better than PBC" Is a statement that completely misses the forest for the trees. Competitive 40k isn't about building lists around dueling ranged tanks.

And yet you provide data for shooting at tanks...

Nevertheless, here is a sample of some relevant PBC damage spread comparisons that you can use to draw conclusions: https://imgur.com/a/KoIgU

Of particular note is the absolutely awful performance on the Entropy cannon -2 to hit charts.

Your numbers for predator:
No modifier: 5.17
-1 to hit: 3.89
-2 to hit: 2.59

Considering that a quad lascannon predator is 190 and a PBC with entropy cannons is 146, let's normalize those numbers (multiply by PBC cost, divide by predator cost:
No modifier: 3.97
-1 to hit: 2.99
-2 to hit: 1.99


PBC with entropy cannons and heavy stubber (added by me) vs T7:
No modifier: 1.81 + 2.33 + 0.33 = 4.47
-1 to hit: 1.20 + 1.55 + 0.22 = 2.97
-2 to hit: 0.61 + 0.79 + 0.11 = 1.51

PBC with entropy cannons and heavy stubber (mortar and stubber added by me) vs T8:
No modifier: 1.36 + 1.75 + 0.33 = 3.44
-1 to hit: 0.90 + 1.16+ 0.22 = 2.16
-2 to hit: 0.45 + 0.58 + 0.11 = 1.14

So the predator is better against T8 and -2 to hit, but as long as the target is at maximum -1 to hit the PBC will perform the same or better than the predator per point spent. Arch Contaminator works in favor of the PBC, but not massively so.
Standard deviation for PBC is lower, so it is more reliable, but less likely to over perform.
In general, I'd say the models are about even in efficiency unless you are sure to be facing multiple -2 to hit or T8 models that you need to take down.

This needs repeating but pbcs just do not do well with Entropy cannons. You are better off spending the points on different units entirely because in competitive, PBC with Entropy cannons make your large model a nice looking paperweight that can often be ignored
The main weapon is a nice tool to have (no LOS artillery is clutch in competitive for threatening to deny the ability for otherwise minimal model units to sit on an objective marker behind a building), and if you want that tool, always take 2 plague spitters because they are ridiculously strong weapon profile, and the more you can fit in your army the better.

Considering that plague spitters can't shoot on most of your turns, that moving makes both the mortar and the tertiary gun fire at -1 and that entropy cannons are a 6 point upgrade over the cheapest possible PBC, I'd argue that entropy cannons will most likely deal more damage over the course of a game than the two spitters. Even with Arch contaminator, they will outperform spitters if they get three rounds of shooting against a -2 to hit target.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 17:12:50


Post by: Fenris-77


This isn't even really a mathammer question for me, or at least not just a mathammer question (although knowing the numbers is obviously key at any level of competitiveness). The Entropy cannon provides reasonably efficient ranged Anti-tank in a list that has a significant overall lack of ranged anti-tank. The Spitters might be better, as a weapon, from an efficiency standpoint, but the argument here, IMO anyway, is about opportunity cost and efficiency, not just efficiency. Any DG list will have multiple redundancy for the kind of damage Spitters do, but tno so much for the cannon.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 18:58:47


Post by: blackmage


if you can put spitters in foetid drones and you play them, i think pbc should be used with entropy cannons, when you really need to hit/damage something you have ways to do that via stratagems.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/09 21:26:07


Post by: Yoda79


The game is not only mathhammer. And thats the deal with it.

and trying to make a point here i give 3 pointers.

1) Drones ability to fly = move out of cc and shoot again makes them not only fast but also the best spitters carrier ever we have seen.

2) if you invest a lord with wt reroll wounds 3 pbc + screener its only logical to make the plan for the points you invested making that fire base full of ranged weapons stationary for max output.

3) the only reason i would use spitters on pbc is when you just cant do nothing else. Example the list seen lately with 10 pburstcrawlers yes then id use spitters since you transforming the unit to an all around w/e.

the game is not only math hammer. but also we cant ignore math hammer. You need to adjust all information with a grain of salt heavily defendant on your play style and skill. That said if you makign the fire base then you cant have less than 3 tanks a lord with wtrait and enough screener.

tip: try to math out how many tanks will do the job and how many screeners will also be sufficient thats mroe important questios.Since when you start to invest in a plan you understand easily more will do the job but its hard to find a list balanced to actually perform it.So 3 tanks min if you making a fire base.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 00:48:48


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Jidmah wrote:
And yet you provide data for shooting at tanks...



Because that's the only thing the Entropy PBC is good for. I'm controlling giving it the best possible chance to 'succeed' in proving it's value. We already know Plague Spitters are an amazing weapon profile, more valuable against a much wider range of targets.




Considering that a quad lascannon predator is 190 and a PBC with entropy cannons is 146, let's normalize those numbers (multiply by PBC cost, divide by predator cost:
Predator
-1 to hit: 2.99
-2 to hit: 1.99


PBC vs T7
-2 to hit: 0.61 + 0.79 + 0.11 = 1.51

PBC vs T8:

-2 to hit: 0.45 + 0.58 + 0.11 = 1.14



Thanks for that. There you go. PBC, even normalized for points is comparatively poor in the role of being a tool for countering bigger models (and bear in mind there needs to be some consideration when normalising to the fact here that you can't 'buy' 1.3 Plague Crawlers instead of a LasPred). The Pred is over 30% better without factoring T8 in which makes PBC even worse.

I include in hightlighting here the -1 for the Predator as well to show an even bigger disparity. Entropy Cannons on the PBC have a horrifically short range for the job which translates into real on-the-table scenarios of having to move in order to bring about their firepower. Comparing both vs T73+ in a situation where the Predator can leverage it's 48" reach and the PBC has to move, the Predator is 100% better for the points.

The Predator on these numbers is clearly a better choice when factoring in the stratagem that removes the penalty for moving and firing, as again, you can't apply the stratagem to 1.3 PBCs.

The simple fact is DG don't make a good 'traditional gunline army' when it comes to heavy firepower against big models. You are far better off playing to the strengths of the codex over forcing square pegs into round holes with the PBC. Sure, its resilient to damage, but it hit's like a wet rag compared to what other books can achieve with similar role models.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 01:51:22


Post by: KiloFiX


Any thoughts on using Las/Missile Helbrute as an anti-armor alternative to Haulers, PBC or Predators?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 04:50:30


Post by: XShadow


I play a lot of ITCs and my PBCs all perform very well for me. I always take 3 in my lists with a lord to babysit them. I also take 3 bloat drones as well.

On another note I'm strongly considering adding a herald and Epi in a patrol for the loci and to buff up my daemon engines. Also to deepstrike Morty with the new stratagem.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 06:02:20


Post by: Dew


XShadow wrote:
I play a lot of ITCs and my PBCs all perform very well for me. I always take 3 in my lists with a lord to babysit them. I also take 3 bloat drones as well.

On another note I'm strongly considering adding a herald and Epi in a patrol for the loci and to buff up my daemon engines. Also to deepstrike Morty with the new stratagem.


Yeah but what guns do you use? Spitters or canons?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 06:07:48


Post by: XShadow


Dew wrote:
XShadow wrote:
I play a lot of ITCs and my PBCs all perform very well for me. I always take 3 in my lists with a lord to babysit them. I also take 3 bloat drones as well.

On another note I'm strongly considering adding a herald and Epi in a patrol for the loci and to buff up my daemon engines. Also to deepstrike Morty with the new stratagem.


Yeah but what guns do you use? Spitters or canons?


All 3 of mine have entropy cannons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 08:17:09


Post by: SilverAlien


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
The simple fact is DG don't make a good 'traditional gunline army' when it comes to heavy firepower against big models. You are far better off playing to the strengths of the codex over forcing square pegs into round holes with the PBC. Sure, its resilient to damage, but it hit's like a wet rag compared to what other books can achieve with similar role models.


I'd argue focusing on units which can outlast the enemy is playing to our army's strength, and PBCs durability allows them to whether a lot more fire than equivalents in other armies. Now, as we see more and more armies get the -1 to ranged shots against them on their tanks (currently just admech and eldar) that may be less true, but currently our tanks are very hard to gun down.

Second, what exactly is our niche if not durability? We are merely okay in melee, and our anti infantry firepower is generally worse than our anti tank. Even drones are only good because of their durability, their firepower is laughable for cost.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 08:50:13


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


SilverAlien wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
The simple fact is DG don't make a good 'traditional gunline army' when it comes to heavy firepower against big models. You are far better off playing to the strengths of the codex over forcing square pegs into round holes with the PBC. Sure, its resilient to damage, but it hit's like a wet rag compared to what other books can achieve with similar role models.


I'd argue focusing on units which can outlast the enemy is playing to our army's strength, and PBCs durability allows them to whether a lot more fire than equivalents in other armies. Now, as we see more and more armies get the -1 to ranged shots against them on their tanks (currently just admech and eldar) that may be less true, but currently our tanks are very hard to gun down.

Second, what exactly is our niche if not durability? We are merely okay in melee, and our anti infantry firepower is generally worse than our anti tank. Even drones are only good because of their durability, their firepower is laughable for cost.


We're a durable mid range/brawler army.

I'm not saying don't take PBC. It's certainly a durable option and the no-LOS mortar is a useful tool. Just when you do, for sponson choice take the actually good assault high str reroll wound Heavy Flamers, and not the almost useless Entropy cannons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 17:34:59


Post by: SilverAlien


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
We're a durable mid range/brawler army.

I'm not saying don't take PBC. It's certainly a durable option and the no-LOS mortar is a useful tool. Just when you do, for sponson choice take the actually good assault high str reroll wound Heavy Flamers, and not the almost useless Entropy cannons.


This is so idiotic, you are arguing based on the weapon being better with no consideration for how it interacts with the unit or its other weapons. What exactly do you do with this configuration?

If you have it sitting behind a screen, the plague spitters will do literally nothing until late game and only then if your screen buckles.

Advance it up the field? Your main gun is hitting on a 5+ doing less than nothing. You can take a helbrute with mixed loadout (lascannon and scourge) instead, have a 3+ on the move, and be useful consistently at close range not just 1-2 turns. Even better are the FW variants.

If you just want plaguespitters and don't feel the need for the anti tank main gun, then why even use a PBC? Drones do this far better, and honestly a drone in melee with probe is probably on par with a PBC firing main gun alone on a 5+.

Maybe you want a unit with some anti tank that is still useful if the enemy lacks tanks or big things entirely? Demon princes or melee drones are more consistently useful in this role, as would the aforementioned dreadnoughts. In particular look at the butcher cannon or grab bombard options on the FW variants.

PBC with entropy cannons has a role: you sit it behind a screen like you would a predator, a bit further up the field than normal, and trust it's high durability will allow it to tank incoming fire better than a predator would. It trades some damage and range for durability in a long range firefight. May not be a tradeoff everyone wants, but it at least has a purpose.

PBC with plaguespitters lacks any decent role. It's bad for all the same reasons the defiler or soul grinder is bad. Also, if you start arguing those are useful I'm going to laugh in your face.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 17:54:22


Post by: Kaiyanwang


SilverAlien wrote:

PBC with plaguespitters lacks any decent role. It's bad for all the same reasons the defiler or soul grinder is bad. Also, if you start arguing those are useful I'm going to laugh in your face.


I'd would argue that the Defiler is in a better spot than before, but I agree on the distrust for schizophrenic builds in vehicles.
I will buy for my DG Leviathan, Deredeo, and Contemptors before touching a Defiler.

3 PBC + 3 drones (or 2 drones and one hauler, or something like that) is a 900pts circa core that allows you to build a lot of armies. After the point decrease, one can plan a brigade in 2000 pts that still packs a punch.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 18:18:25


Post by: usernamesareannoying


 KiloFiX wrote:
Any thoughts on using Las/Missile Helbrute as an anti-armor alternative to Haulers, PBC or Predators?

i was wondering the same thing.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 18:44:02


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


SilverAlien wrote:
Spoiler:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
We're a durable mid range/brawler army.

I'm not saying don't take PBC. It's certainly a durable option and the no-LOS mortar is a useful tool. Just when you do, for sponson choice take the actually good assault high str reroll wound Heavy Flamers, and not the almost useless Entropy cannons.


This is so idiotic, you are arguing based on the weapon being better with no consideration for how it interacts with the unit or its other weapons. What exactly do you do with this configuration?

If you have it sitting behind a screen, the plague spitters will do literally nothing until late game and only then if your screen buckles.

Advance it up the field? Your main gun is hitting on a 5+ doing less than nothing. You can take a helbrute with mixed loadout (lascannon and scourge) instead, have a 3+ on the move, and be useful consistently at close range not just 1-2 turns. Even better are the FW variants.

If you just want plaguespitters and don't feel the need for the anti tank main gun, then why even use a PBC? Drones do this far better, and honestly a drone in melee with probe is probably on par with a PBC firing main gun alone on a 5+.

Maybe you want a unit with some anti tank that is still useful if the enemy lacks tanks or big things entirely? Demon princes or melee drones are more consistently useful in this role, as would the aforementioned dreadnoughts. In particular look at the butcher cannon or grab bombard options on the FW variants.

PBC with entropy cannons has a role: you sit it behind a screen like you would a predator, a bit further up the field than normal, and trust it's high durability will allow it to tank incoming fire better than a predator would. It trades some damage and range for durability in a long range firefight. May not be a tradeoff everyone wants, but it at least has a purpose.

PBC with plaguespitters lacks any decent role. It's bad for all the same reasons the defiler or soul grinder is bad. Also, if you start arguing those are useful I'm going to laugh in your face.


Tone down the aggressive ignorance thanks.

On a PBC, the Plague Spitters are the 'main gun'. You can take only Drones if you want, never said not to. But if you don't think, for your plague spitter platform, that +1T, +2W, +1S, a bonus Heavy Mortar weapon and an extra 18 points up your sleeve vs +1M and FLY is a legitimate list building consideration for competitive then just stop replying to this topic and save yourself the blood pressure.

Your 'decent role/schizophrenic' argument is irrelevant rhetoric because we aren't discussing designed units with a pool of component with points values that are tabulated from the ground up. I can hypothesize a unit that has a 2 Lascannons and 10 strong melee attacks as base default. Oh no, it doesn't have a single role! But if the hypothetical unit cost 30 points each to put on the table, all of a sudden it doesn't matter does it?

You're saying that if you want strong guns, to take other things than the PBC with Entropy Cannons? Yes, that's what I've been saying. Is the PBC with Entropy Cannons a comparatively resilient platform for what it is? Of course it is. Do I think 3 or so PBC with Entropy Cannons sitting 'a bit up the field behind a screen' is a competitive tournament list? I don't.




Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/10 19:03:09


Post by: SilverAlien


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Tone down the aggressive ignorance thanks.

On a PBC, the Plague Spitters are the 'main gun'. You can take only Drones if you want, never said not to. But if you don't think, for your plague spitter platform, that +1T, +2W, +1S, a bonus Heavy Mortar weapon and an extra 18 points up your sleeve vs +1M and FLY is a legitimate list building consideration for competitive then just stop replying to this topic and save yourself the blood pressure.

Your 'decent role/schizophrenic' argument is irrelevant rhetoric because we aren't discussing designed units with a pool of component with points values that are tabulated from the ground up. I can hypothesize a unit that has a 2 Lascannons and 10 strong melee attacks as base default. Oh no, it doesn't have a single role! But if the hypothetical unit cost 30 points each to put on the table, all of a sudden it doesn't matter does it?


Except, we kinda are. We are discussing which base a weapon with fixed cost works well on.

See, this is what I find weird about you argument: you hate PBC with entropy cannons as it is too defensive and lacks range and power compared to other options that fill the same role. But... that's exactly what PBC with plaguespitters suffers from. It's easily tarpitted with no melee power and short range "main guns" if you use it as an assault platform, meaning it won't put out anywhere near the damage of a bloat drone.

Look, plaguespitters aren't amazing even if your enemy is running hordes. You'll get roughly 5-6 kills a turn from firing on guardsmen, which isn't that amazing for something in the 130-140 price range. What makes the bloat drone good is it can consistently do this turn after turn without much fear of being locked in place, with acceptable melee power as well. Because you really need to be getting 4 or 5 turns of shooting to make it a worthwhile investment. The only thing that makes the bloatdrone good is the ability to fly, the plaguespitters themselves aren't the main selling point.

PBC with plaguespitters being used primarily as an assault vehicle will be lucky to kill half its value in points before getting bogged down for the rest of the match. We are talking a price increase for less than half the actual real world firepower. It's a horrific idea, the platform is just all wrong for the weapon.

Want an example of actual good anti infantry firepower? Take cultists. Two units in RF range out perform a bloat drone or PBC with plaguespitters, and costs 80 points as opposed to the 130 range. But they struggle somewhat to stay around, meaning you likely only get 2-3 turns of shooting if that, while a bloat drone sticks around for most of the game. So a PBC that will likely get 2-3 turns of shooting before getting shutdown by being locked into combat lacks both actual impressive firepower for cost or staying power. It's durability is irrelevant when it can be trivialized so easily. Which is hilarious because apparently you think position so you stay in 36" of the enemy tanks is really unreasonable to do consistently, but locking a PBC in combat is apparently really hard?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/11 00:09:22


Post by: XShadow


PBC with entropy cannons are my main way of killing IG tanks. I run into IG and SM all the time, especially in tournaments, and the PBC do more work for me than my bloat drones. Even if I wanted to give them spitters, they still can't overwatch against deepstrikers due to the range. I screen them with cultists anyway to prevent them being charged. Against the -1 to hit armies I play against they still put in work. A lord with arch contaminator really helps punch through the damage. Even if 1 cannon hits thats still a S8 -4 shot, and they're only a few more points each than the stock spitters. I prefer them over preds or hellbrutes due to the durability. They soak up tons og shots before dying.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/13 18:50:12


Post by: Danny slag


 Fenris-77 wrote:
This isn't even really a mathammer question for me, or at least not just a mathammer question (although knowing the numbers is obviously key at any level of competitiveness). The Entropy cannon provides reasonably efficient ranged Anti-tank in a list that has a significant overall lack of ranged anti-tank. The Spitters might be better, as a weapon, from an efficiency standpoint, but the argument here, IMO anyway, is about opportunity cost and efficiency, not just efficiency. Any DG list will have multiple redundancy for the kind of damage Spitters do, but tno so much for the cannon.

This right here. The problem with mathhammer is it's in a vacuum which doesn't factor in tactics at all. And let's be real, if we're talking tournament then you shouldn't even be bothering list building, just do what every other tournament player does, take Mortarion, Magnus, and 200 poxwalkers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KiloFiX wrote:
Any thoughts on using Las/Missile Helbrute as an anti-armor alternative to Haulers, PBC or Predators?



And in my opinion the las/missile helbrute is the best anti tank we have.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 04:29:53


Post by: Ninzie


Danny slag wrote:
 Fenris-77 wrote:
This isn't even really a mathammer question for me, or at least not just a mathammer question (although knowing the numbers is obviously key at any level of competitiveness). The Entropy cannon provides reasonably efficient ranged Anti-tank in a list that has a significant overall lack of ranged anti-tank. The Spitters might be better, as a weapon, from an efficiency standpoint, but the argument here, IMO anyway, is about opportunity cost and efficiency, not just efficiency. Any DG list will have multiple redundancy for the kind of damage Spitters do, but tno so much for the cannon.

This right here. The problem with mathhammer is it's in a vacuum which doesn't factor in tactics at all. And let's be real, if we're talking tournament then you shouldn't even be bothering list building, just do what every other tournament player does, take Mortarion, Magnus, and 200 poxwalkers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KiloFiX wrote:
Any thoughts on using Las/Missile Helbrute as an anti-armor alternative to Haulers, PBC or Predators?



And in my opinion the las/missile helbrute is the best anti tank we have.


I have been running lots of different helbrutes lately (last game I had 4 with different builds) and I gotta say that the helbrutes need to be either 100% offensive or atleast have 1 fist. I recently assembled my leviathan dreadnought with two gravs and man wasn't that the MVP of the match I played it on. 2D3 shots, bs2+ (can move and fire heavies without penalty because of the helbrute-keyword and lord can give him reroll 1 aura), wounds most tanks on 3+ (S9) and with AP-5 no tank will receive cover. The best part? It deals 5 damage per wound vs monsters, vehicles and titanics. I took down a daemon prince with him quite easily. He also took down 2 squads of marines, 1 helbrute and destroyed one predator.

Sadly our version has 5+ invulnerable save vs shooting so it is rather easy to take down if you don't have more pressing threats.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 15:59:39


Post by: Jidmah


So any ideas for mixing DG with the new daemons yet? Assuming Reecious is right, we will not be able to deep strike Mortarion or any other daemons from the DG codex.
First of all, all Death Guard units which are nurgle daemons are daemon princes, Mortarion, HQs on palanquin of nurgle, PBC, blight haulers, drones, defilers and possessed. Any units besides those don't get any benefit from Codex: Chaos Daemons, except for not dying from nurgle's rot and similar effects.

I bought the codex and the three most interesting things I found was the already spoiled Locus of Virulence (+1 damage on to wound of 6+, daemons only), the nurgle tree and the two nurgle psychic powers Shriveling Pox (-1T for enemy withing 18") and Virulent Blessing (+1 to wound in fight phase, double damage on 7+, daemon target only).
There is also a power that heals daemons for d3, a 7" smite which automatically does d6 wounds to units with 10+ models, Nurgle's Rot(same as DG stratagem) and Miamasa of Pestilence, which is the same power as DG gets. So even if you have more that two psykers, the other powers aren't terrible.

The locus is pretty obvious to use, buy any character and sit him next to your PBC or blight haulers. Whenever one of the daemon engines rolls a 6+ to wound for its shooting attacks, it does one more damage. PBC have lots of shots, so there are lots of chances for extra damage.
You can also use a Daemon Prince of Chaos (that's the name of the codex:dameons data slate) to give this buff to your drones, but you'll lose the suppurating plate if you don't want to bring two daemon princes. Sadly, all nurgle relics are bad, and none of the warlord traits are outstandingly good.

Shriveling Pox is nice to support PBC as you can drop T8 vehicles down to T7, which makes them a lot better against them. Or you could debuff a T3/T4 unit to T2/T3 to wound them better with bolters or autoguns and/or poxwalker melee.
Virulent Blessing is nice since it stacks with Putrid Blades and Veterans of the Long war, allowing your a Daemon Prince of Nurgle buffed with all three to wound anything on a 2+, do 3 damage per hit on a 3+ (locus) and 5 damage to it on a 4+. Shredding a titanic model has never been this easy. One of the nurgle warlord traits is +1 to wound against non-vehicles so you could even go completely nuts if feel like crushing some wraith constructs or tyranid monsters.

Bad news is that the only nurgle psykers are Rotigus, GUO, poxbringer (formerly known as herald of nurgle) and daemon princes. At 70 points, poxbringers are cheap enough to field even without using +1S aura, but only get one psychic power.
So to get the maximum out of a daemons detachment, you would field a Daemon Prince of Chaos to accompany your blight drones (and maybe a second prince with plate) and cast Virulent Blessings, plus a poxbringer with Shriveling Pox to buff whatever daemon engines you are bringing and debuff their targets. To make a full detachment you could either add another herald or Epidemius(unchanged except for melee AP) to make it a supreme command detachment or add 3 units of nurglings for 54 each to get 3 CP.
Cheapest access to loci and powers would be 210 to field three heralds. Even with the limits hinted at by Reece, you could still use the stratagem to make double perils damage on an enemy psyker for -1CP.

So, the nurgle tree is a completely indestructible piece of terrain after being deployed for just 50 points and provides 4 buff auras.
1) Nurgle daemons that are neither vehicles nor monsters get +2 cover. Yay possessed? Otherwise provides nurgle dameons with 4+ armor.
2) Causes mortal wounds to non-nurgle units nearby. I guess it's cute to create a choke point with this against melee-oriented armies. Won't do anything against gunlines
3) Nurgle daemons can fall back without drawbacks near them. Plant one near your PBCs and they can still shoot after getting charges. You still have to move them though...
4) Reroll any of your summoning dice. Nobody cares.
For 150 points you can get 3 of them and wall off some part of the battlefield, for example an objective or a position in the middle of your battlefield. You can also go full troll and fit up to 9 in a single fortification network detachment and play tower defense with your tyranid, khorne or ork opponent. I think the main value for DG is getting some blocking terrain against assault armies, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 16:10:15


Post by: dan2026


How does deploying train pieces such as the Nurgle tree work in 8th? Can you put them where you want?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 17:13:49


Post by: Jidmah


They are deployed like regular units, so anywhere in your deployment zone. In addition, units of trees need to be within 6" of at least one other tree from that unit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 18:15:46


Post by: Zid


 dan2026 wrote:
How does deploying train pieces such as the Nurgle tree work in 8th? Can you put them where you want?


Seems like people are going to be using the DS strategem to place them where they want T1, of course, this won't work if you go second... and fast armies will really damper this tactic. But I love their rules, and cannot wait to get some myself


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 21:19:51


Post by: Ninzie


 Zid wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
How does deploying train pieces such as the Nurgle tree work in 8th? Can you put them where you want?


Seems like people are going to be using the DS strategem to place them where they want T1, of course, this won't work if you go second... and fast armies will really damper this tactic. But I love their rules, and cannot wait to get some myself


You can also deepstrike Slimux and place a forest with less restrictions during the same "at the end of the movement phase". Sure that costs 215 (with only 1 forest) and 2CP and you really must build your army around the DS stratagem to get good value out of this.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/14 21:28:30


Post by: blackmage


demon codex has lot more strong things than gnarlmaws galore. If i want spend cp's to ds something i will go for 30 letters+banner+herald+skarbrand for example, or 60 pink horrors+herald+9 flamers, that get you a nice alpha strike, than slimux and his trees.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 07:59:34


Post by: Ninzie


 blackmage wrote:
demon codex has lot more strong things than gnarlmaws galore. If i want spend cp's to ds something i will go for 30 letters+banner+herald+skarbrand for example, or 60 pink horrors+herald+9 flamers, that get you a nice alpha strike, than slimux and his trees.


True it has many stronger things, but the thing is that the slimux's tree might make nurgle DS armies way stronger. Getting tons of CP is easy as it takes around 600pts to get a chaos brigade, 700 if you want the brigade to deal some extra damage. Add one battalion and you are sitting at 15CP and you can deep strike as much as you want And depending on your list, you might want to replace a lot of those units with the ones you have in your smaller detachments.

The brigade uses cultists as troops, but you could replace few of those units by lesser daemons which will deep strike. The brigade part of the army can easily contest your half of the objectives as well as deny any deep strikes to your deployment zone. Swap some of the cultists with nurglings and the deep strike deny bubble is actually huge. One could argue if those things and 9 extra CP are worth it in 2000pts game but IMHO they really do fine.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 13:20:39


Post by: usernamesareannoying


sorry to ask guys but where is the DS stratagem?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 13:27:03


Post by: Fenris-77


 usernamesareannoying wrote:
sorry to ask guys but where is the DS stratagem?
In the brand new shiny Demon Codex.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 13:56:42


Post by: Zid


 blackmage wrote:
demon codex has lot more strong things than gnarlmaws galore. If i want spend cp's to ds something i will go for 30 letters+banner+herald+skarbrand for example, or 60 pink horrors+herald+9 flamers, that get you a nice alpha strike, than slimux and his trees.


I don't disagree, however, I play DG and gnarlmaws are fantastic for foot slogging DG armies (poxwalkers will love em, make them even harder to remove!)

I love Tzeentch, Khorne, and Nurgles part of the Dex. Always hated Slaneesh so they can DIAF lol


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 18:30:28


Post by: Jidmah


Trees only grant cover to nurgle daemons that are neither vehicle nor monster. So it does nothing for pox walkers besides not killing them.
The only DG unit that fits that limitation are possessed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 19:00:23


Post by: Zid


 Jidmah wrote:
Trees only grant cover to nurgle daemons that are neither vehicle nor monster. So it does nothing for pox walkers besides not killing them.
The only DG unit that fits that limitation are possessed.


Didn't see the Daemon tag; lame! Definitely lessons what they can do then. I guess if you use a lot of Nurglings and Plaguebearers instead of Poxwalkers. Caveat, I don't have the dex, just a word doc of the rules... so some are a bit off


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 19:40:32


Post by: Jidmah


The word document was done by a dakka member that listened to another guy reviewing the codex. There are lots of errors in there.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 19:56:09


Post by: blackmage


yes i have the codex, only nurgle demons benefits from the happy tree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Zid wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Trees only grant cover to nurgle daemons that are neither vehicle nor monster. So it does nothing for pox walkers besides not killing them.
The only DG unit that fits that limitation are possessed.


Didn't see the Daemon tag; lame! Definitely lessons what they can do then. I guess if you use a lot of Nurglings and Plaguebearers instead of Poxwalkers. Caveat, I don't have the dex, just a word doc of the rules... so some are a bit off

if you wanna play lot of nurglings and pb, better use a whole demon detachment


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 20:11:17


Post by: Captyn_Bob


 blackmage wrote:
yes i have the codex, only nurgle demons benefits from the happy tree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Zid wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Trees only grant cover to nurgle daemons that are neither vehicle nor monster. So it does nothing for pox walkers besides not killing them.
The only DG unit that fits that limitation are possessed.


Didn't see the Daemon tag; lame! Definitely lessons what they can do then. I guess if you use a lot of Nurglings and Plaguebearers instead of Poxwalkers. Caveat, I don't have the dex, just a word doc of the rules... so some are a bit off

if you wanna play lot of nurglings and pb, better use a whole demon detachment


Still possibly worth it for the ability to fall back/advance and shoot with daemon engines, and advance and charge with Mortarion.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/15 22:01:47


Post by: Zid


Captyn_Bob wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
yes i have the codex, only nurgle demons benefits from the happy tree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Zid wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Trees only grant cover to nurgle daemons that are neither vehicle nor monster. So it does nothing for pox walkers besides not killing them.
The only DG unit that fits that limitation are possessed.


Didn't see the Daemon tag; lame! Definitely lessons what they can do then. I guess if you use a lot of Nurglings and Plaguebearers instead of Poxwalkers. Caveat, I don't have the dex, just a word doc of the rules... so some are a bit off

if you wanna play lot of nurglings and pb, better use a whole demon detachment


Still possibly worth it for the ability to fall back/advance and shoot with daemon engines, and advance and charge with Mortarion.


Didn't think of this! PBC's usually don't go down quickly, so giving them the ability to disengage and still blast is pretty awesome...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 00:30:05


Post by: NurglesR0T


Anyone else notice the subtle change in the Daemons codex to Nurglings? Their mischievous deployment rule has the addition ".. or enemy models" - I wonder if this will be up FAQ'ed into the DG codex as well?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 20:39:08


Post by: Bach


Quick question, did Mortarion get the ability to deep strike by way of Daemon strategems? ITC legal?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 21:46:08


Post by: killerpenguin


I'm sure it has been discussed, but how does the new daemon codex synergize with the nurgle daemons from the DG codex? For example PBC and plague drones?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 22:12:57


Post by: MilkmanAl


I'm not a Death Guard player, but I'm curious what you guys think of the PBC spam list that's circulating. In case you haven't seen it, it's essentially 10 pbcs, epidemius, 2 poxbringers, and 2 demon princes. Just glancing through the DG codex, PBCs stood out to me as rock-hard units to spam, but this seems a little crazy.

It is far from a perfect list, but I really can't think of anything balanced that counters it effectively. Even good counters like flyer spam really don't grind through the tanks very well. They're just way too tough, especially once they hit T9, and charging them is going to hurtunless you go from outside 8". Even then, your combat unit is going to eat a ton of s7+ flamers when the tank dies or falls back.

I expect this list to make a big splash at LVO and precipitate some significant points and rules changes. What do you guys think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 22:39:36


Post by: blackmage


 Bach wrote:
Quick question, did Mortarion get the ability to deep strike by way of Daemon strategems? ITC legal?

for how the rule is written you can and no one can say you can't, im sure soon we will have a FAQ about it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 22:48:19


Post by: Brian888


After watching that Custodes/Sons game today, it strikes me that the Death Guard are going to be an absolute nightmare for the Custodes to handle. The Guard's ability to barf out mortal wounds from a variety of sources, many of which aren't directly caused by psyker powers, will put a serious hurting on an army that looks like it will average about 20 models on the table. The one real long-range fire support tank the Custodes have, the venerable land raider, will be eaten alive by Mortarion.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/18 23:24:30


Post by: Dew


The custodians will still probably always be included in soup I imagine. Hardly ever a stand alone army


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 00:06:42


Post by: BrianDavion


Dew wrote:
The custodians will still probably always be included in soup I imagine. Hardly ever a stand alone army


Likely deployed along side guard.

deploy 1500 points of custodes, and 500 points of guard infantry to provide chaff.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 00:35:03


Post by: Brian888


Good thing the Death Guard specialize in melting chaff into puddles of toxic goo.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 00:59:27


Post by: BrianDavion


Brian888 wrote:
Good thing the Death Guard specialize in melting chaff into puddles of toxic goo.


maybe but guard doesn't need to survive, just needs to absorb that first blow so the custodes can swing the battle. you don't expect chaff to survive.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 02:18:37


Post by: orkswubwub


MilkmanAl wrote:
I'm not a Death Guard player, but I'm curious what you guys think of the PBC spam list that's circulating. In case you haven't seen it, it's essentially 10 pbcs, epidemius, 2 poxbringers, and 2 demon princes. Just glancing through the DG codex, PBCs stood out to me as rock-hard units to spam, but this seems a little crazy.

It is far from a perfect list, but I really can't think of anything balanced that counters it effectively. Even good counters like flyer spam really don't grind through the tanks very well. They're just way too tough, especially once they hit T9, and charging them is going to hurtunless you go from outside 8". Even then, your combat unit is going to eat a ton of s7+ flamers when the tank dies or falls back.

I expect this list to make a big splash at LVO and precipitate some significant points and rules changes. What do you guys think?


I love how most of the thread breezes over probably the most relevant question for DG currently (or at least for DG opponents) with LVO approaching. Looking at the lists so far i have seen this exact list. I think this list suffers most against flyers and -1 to hit. Commander spam with fusion blasters (high movement) and altaioc flyer spam (going to -3 to hit) will probably do well against this list. The alternative is go super hard melee and eat the spewers. As intimidating as they are by math hammer on average you are only hitting 7 times, wounding 5-6, and a 3 up save will save half the damage (bringing it to 2-3 damage total per crawler per turn). This will be padded by 1-2 damage due to the nurgle locus. Granted that number adds up and there are DP and smite to worry about PLUS the mortars etc, but that is also assuming your opponent stays in range of all spewers and doesn't have enough troops to surround your PBC.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 05:24:52


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


orkswubwub wrote:
MilkmanAl wrote:
I'm not a Death Guard player, but I'm curious what you guys think of the PBC spam list that's circulating. In case you haven't seen it, it's essentially 10 pbcs, epidemius, 2 poxbringers, and 2 demon princes. Just glancing through the DG codex, PBCs stood out to me as rock-hard units to spam, but this seems a little crazy.

It is far from a perfect list, but I really can't think of anything balanced that counters it effectively. Even good counters like flyer spam really don't grind through the tanks very well. They're just way too tough, especially once they hit T9, and charging them is going to hurtunless you go from outside 8". Even then, your combat unit is going to eat a ton of s7+ flamers when the tank dies or falls back.

I expect this list to make a big splash at LVO and precipitate some significant points and rules changes. What do you guys think?


I love how most of the thread breezes over probably the most relevant question for DG currently (or at least for DG opponents) with LVO approaching. Looking at the lists so far i have seen this exact list. I think this list suffers most against flyers and -1 to hit.


I tried to talk about this about a week ago, the groupthink in this thread is still "Why would you take spewers over awesome entropy cannonz!". I don't think you're going to find cutting edge top level competitive discussion here, this is more 'FLGS tactics'


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 09:42:47


Post by: Nightlord1987


I want to (finally) add a box of Beast men I've assembled into my Chaos army. If I paint them as Pestigors, what is the best unit to represent them, pox walkers, cultists or plague bearers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 11:18:11


Post by: blackmage


if you can ally an alpha legion detachment, better keep ur 6 blightlords or switch for 6 oblys?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 16:14:40


Post by: MilkmanAl


orkswubwub wrote:
MilkmanAl wrote:
I'm not a Death Guard player, but I'm curious what you guys think of the PBC spam list that's circulating. In case you haven't seen it, it's essentially 10 pbcs, epidemius, 2 poxbringers, and 2 demon princes. Just glancing through the DG codex, PBCs stood out to me as rock-hard units to spam, but this seems a little crazy.

It is far from a perfect list, but I really can't think of anything balanced that counters it effectively. Even good counters like flyer spam really don't grind through the tanks very well. They're just way too tough, especially once they hit T9, and charging them is going to hurtunless you go from outside 8". Even then, your combat unit is going to eat a ton of s7+ flamers when the tank dies or falls back.

I expect this list to make a big splash at LVO and precipitate some significant points and rules changes. What do you guys think?


I love how most of the thread breezes over probably the most relevant question for DG currently (or at least for DG opponents) with LVO approaching. Looking at the lists so far i have seen this exact list. I think this list suffers most against flyers and -1 to hit. Commander spam with fusion blasters (high movement) and altaioc flyer spam (going to -3 to hit) will probably do well against this list. The alternative is go super hard melee and eat the spewers. As intimidating as they are by math hammer on average you are only hitting 7 times, wounding 5-6, and a 3 up save will save half the damage (bringing it to 2-3 damage total per crawler per turn). This will be padded by 1-2 damage due to the nurgle locus. Granted that number adds up and there are DP and smite to worry about PLUS the mortars etc, but that is also assuming your opponent stays in range of all spewers and doesn't have enough troops to surround your PBC.
I partially agree. I'd forgotten about Commander spam, which is shameful considering my dedication to Tau, but that's actually a good counter to PBC spam. It takes roughly 16 fusion shots or 4 Commanders to down a PBC, so that should basically be 2 tanks down per turn plus some. Drones can reliably dakka down characters or maybe even plink a PBC, if no other targets are available. That seems like a favorable matchup.

Hit penalty spam won't be a big deal to PBCs due to all the flamers running around. Dark Reapers aren't really a good answer to PBCs. Fire Dragons are strong in this match, but that'd require more tailoring than most LVO compatitiors are likely to do. 10 PBCs exert enough board control that even super-fast bikes and flyers aren't going to be able to stay away from the flames particularly well.

Marine gunlines favoring lascannons or plasma might do okay. You only have a few turns before those flamers come and wreck you, though. Assuming Bobby G rerolls, you need about 12 lascannons to down each PBC. It may be a bit of a stretch to get the 24+ you'd need to reliably take out 2 of them plus some support characters per turn. This is a workable matchup for the marine player, I think, but it's one that favors DG.



Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

I tried to talk about this about a week ago, the groupthink in this thread is still "Why would you take spewers over awesome entropy cannonz!". I don't think you're going to find cutting edge top level competitive discussion here, this is more 'FLGS tactics'
I looked back, and that discussion is a little disappointing, to say the least. I guess I could see entropy cannons over plaguespitters if you're dead-set on just sitting your PBCs back and plinking things, but they're not really all that good in that capacity. Possibly that's the way to go if you're only running 1-2 of them? Whatever. In any event, if you've got Poxbringers and Epidemius in the mix with Arch-Contaminator, plaguespitters are pretty clearly the best option. Like I said, worst case scenario for you is falling back with your PBC in combat so the others can swarm. Hopefully the lurkers who have competition in mind pop out and contribute.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 17:02:38


Post by: MrFlutterPie


Have people thought about using the new Nurgle trees to fall back out of combat and still shoot with their PBC?

This is where plaguespitters might come into there own.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 23:25:39


Post by: orkswubwub


MilkmanAl wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
MilkmanAl wrote:
I'm not a Death Guard player, but I'm curious what you guys think of the PBC spam list that's circulating. In case you haven't seen it, it's essentially 10 pbcs, epidemius, 2 poxbringers, and 2 demon princes. Just glancing through the DG codex, PBCs stood out to me as rock-hard units to spam, but this seems a little crazy.

It is far from a perfect list, but I really can't think of anything balanced that counters it effectively. Even good counters like flyer spam really don't grind through the tanks very well. They're just way too tough, especially once they hit T9, and charging them is going to hurtunless you go from outside 8". Even then, your combat unit is going to eat a ton of s7+ flamers when the tank dies or falls back.

I expect this list to make a big splash at LVO and precipitate some significant points and rules changes. What do you guys think?


I love how most of the thread breezes over probably the most relevant question for DG currently (or at least for DG opponents) with LVO approaching. Looking at the lists so far i have seen this exact list. I think this list suffers most against flyers and -1 to hit. Commander spam with fusion blasters (high movement) and altaioc flyer spam (going to -3 to hit) will probably do well against this list. The alternative is go super hard melee and eat the spewers. As intimidating as they are by math hammer on average you are only hitting 7 times, wounding 5-6, and a 3 up save will save half the damage (bringing it to 2-3 damage total per crawler per turn). This will be padded by 1-2 damage due to the nurgle locus. Granted that number adds up and there are DP and smite to worry about PLUS the mortars etc, but that is also assuming your opponent stays in range of all spewers and doesn't have enough troops to surround your PBC.
I partially agree. I'd forgotten about Commander spam, which is shameful considering my dedication to Tau, but that's actually a good counter to PBC spam. It takes roughly 16 fusion shots or 4 Commanders to down a PBC, so that should basically be 2 tanks down per turn plus some. Drones can reliably dakka down characters or maybe even plink a PBC, if no other targets are available. That seems like a favorable matchup.

Hit penalty spam won't be a big deal to PBCs due to all the flamers running around. Dark Reapers aren't really a good answer to PBCs. Fire Dragons are strong in this match, but that'd require more tailoring than most LVO compatitiors are likely to do. 10 PBCs exert enough board control that even super-fast bikes and flyers aren't going to be able to stay away from the flames particularly well.

Marine gunlines favoring lascannons or plasma might do okay. You only have a few turns before those flamers come and wreck you, though. Assuming Bobby G rerolls, you need about 12 lascannons to down each PBC. It may be a bit of a stretch to get the 24+ you'd need to reliably take out 2 of them plus some support characters per turn. This is a workable matchup for the marine player, I think, but it's one that favors DG.



Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

I tried to talk about this about a week ago, the groupthink in this thread is still "Why would you take spewers over awesome entropy cannonz!". I don't think you're going to find cutting edge top level competitive discussion here, this is more 'FLGS tactics'
I looked back, and that discussion is a little disappointing, to say the least. I guess I could see entropy cannons over plaguespitters if you're dead-set on just sitting your PBCs back and plinking things, but they're not really all that good in that capacity. Possibly that's the way to go if you're only running 1-2 of them? Whatever. In any event, if you've got Poxbringers and Epidemius in the mix with Arch-Contaminator, plaguespitters are pretty clearly the best option. Like I said, worst case scenario for you is falling back with your PBC in combat so the others can swarm. Hopefully the lurkers who have competition in mind pop out and contribute.


But how are the plaguespitters hitting flyers that have a 30 inch move?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 23:37:30


Post by: MilkmanAl


Well, they move 9" and have a 8" range. Given how much of the board 10 of those monsters will take up, I'd say it'll be pretty hard to stay 17" away from all of them at all times. You only need to catch a typical flyer with 3-4 rounds of buffed pus flamery goodness to bring it down, and that's pretty likely to happen over the course of a couple turns. I doubt I'd go out of my way to chase a flyer down, but if one dropped into range, I'd spray all over it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/19 23:41:17


Post by: orkswubwub


I am not sure, I feel differently. If you are actively trying to stay out of range its very easy to just measure 18 inches from the closest PBC and attack over and over all game long. It would take you 3-4 turns to even come close to cornering the flyer who could then just fly over the PBC or ina different direction (assuming no PBC are dead 3-4 turns in...). I guess it depends on the player, but honestly it really isn't that hard - you have measuring tape


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 00:06:09


Post by: MilkmanAl


Eh, maybe so. Like I said earlier, I think flyers are a reasonable counter to the PBC list, but if you have enough of them to be a menace, they'll be jostling for position a fair bit. Count on a few of them getting danger close and paying the price. A couple isolated flyers in the unused segment of board probably isn't significant enough of a threat to warrant the DG player diverting his attention from wiping the rest of the opposition first, either.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 15:45:02


Post by: Danny slag


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
MilkmanAl wrote:
I'm not a Death Guard player, but I'm curious what you guys think of the PBC spam list that's circulating. In case you haven't seen it, it's essentially 10 pbcs, epidemius, 2 poxbringers, and 2 demon princes. Just glancing through the DG codex, PBCs stood out to me as rock-hard units to spam, but this seems a little crazy.

It is far from a perfect list, but I really can't think of anything balanced that counters it effectively. Even good counters like flyer spam really don't grind through the tanks very well. They're just way too tough, especially once they hit T9, and charging them is going to hurtunless you go from outside 8". Even then, your combat unit is going to eat a ton of s7+ flamers when the tank dies or falls back.

I expect this list to make a big splash at LVO and precipitate some significant points and rules changes. What do you guys think?


I love how most of the thread breezes over probably the most relevant question for DG currently (or at least for DG opponents) with LVO approaching. Looking at the lists so far i have seen this exact list. I think this list suffers most against flyers and -1 to hit.


I tried to talk about this about a week ago, the groupthink in this thread is still "Why would you take spewers over awesome entropy cannonz!". I don't think you're going to find cutting edge top level competitive discussion here, this is more 'FLGS tactics'


Possibly because having an army comprised of spamming 10 of one model isn't competitive, it's the opposite, it's a spammy boring list meant to require no competition. Usual tourney try-hard trash.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 16:11:28


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Danny slag wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:


I tried to talk about this about a week ago, the groupthink in this thread is still "Why would you take spewers over awesome entropy cannonz!". I don't think you're going to find cutting edge top level competitive discussion here, this is more 'FLGS tactics'


Possibly because having an army comprised of spamming 10 of one model isn't competitive, it's the opposite, it's a spammy boring list meant to require no competition. Usual tourney try-hard trash.


Indeed. Let's hope that list doesn't win or otherwize GW might hit the PBC with the nerfbat .


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 16:35:23


Post by: Ix_Tab


Whilst it may seem rather tragic to many of us that anyone would wish to buy 10 PBC merely to do well in 40k tornies it takes different strokes and all that.

The list looks ok though I feel it may be improved with a couple less PBC and some bubblewrap and or more melee clearing units.
The list will require careful positioning versus some army types to avoid charges from out of LoS and pile ins/ consolidations into other PBC. Also they are vulnerable to being locked in combat. The DP should go someway to mitigating this but it seems like a weakness versus fast melee armies, particularty flying melee troops.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 16:43:29


Post by: MilkmanAl


Well, like it or not, competitive play us a crucial part of the 40k landscape. In fact, these days, it's the driving force keeping the hobby afloat, in my opinion. That's an argument that has been rehashed a bajillion times and isn't for this thread, though.

In any event, dismissing the list as "tourney try-hard trash" doesn't get us anywhere. It's a list and one that is very difficult to deal with, at that. While it may be a boring army to you, those of us who enjoy competitive gaming need to figure out how to cope with it. Personally, I would/will have fun figuring out how to eke out a victory with my Tau or Dark Angels. Maybe you could contribute your thoughts on the list's function with a focus on PBCs and the interactions of daemons with chaos detachments instead of dropping in to dump on how people choose to play the game?

As I said in my first post here, I anticipate that this list will open some eyes and cause some rules and /or point cost changes. What changes do you see coming, if any? Are they warranted? If there's a more competitive tournament alternative, what is it?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 19:33:50


Post by: Claas


So a Great Unclean with a Doomsday Bell brings a model back for units of Nurgle Daemons within 7". Would not a Myphitc Blight-Hauler unit be eligible for this? Now that is pretty sick.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 21:33:54


Post by: blackmage


unless they FAQ any unit with DEMON and NURGLE faction keywords can benefit from things like doomsday bell.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/20 21:48:49


Post by: Jidmah


Danny slag wrote:
Possibly because having an army comprised of spamming 10 of one model isn't competitive, it's the opposite, it's a spammy boring list meant to require no competition. Usual tourney try-hard trash.


Actually, we dismissed his argument because he didn't lose a single word about spamming PBC (the discussion was about pox walker armies with one or two PBC), the daemon codex was not released yet (not even previewed) and he simply edited all the numbers not fitting his argument out of quotes and claimed that his point was proven.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/23 17:45:14


Post by: Bach


Looks like a new Faq came out for Daemons and Death Guard.

Looks like Daemon stratagems can only be used on Daemon faction units, so no deep striking Morty. Some Death Guard units had their Daemon keywords changed around presumably for this reason.

Death Guard's Inexorable Advance has 'Helbrute' in bold so it will now benefit things like Deredeo Dreadnoughts. Pretty cool.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/23 18:23:21


Post by: Emicrania


Don’t we loose our dg rules for the PD blight launcher if we have a battalion with daemons?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/23 18:47:57


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 Jidmah wrote:
Danny slag wrote:
Possibly because having an army comprised of spamming 10 of one model isn't competitive, it's the opposite, it's a spammy boring list meant to require no competition. Usual tourney try-hard trash.


Actually, we dismissed his argument because he didn't lose a single word about spamming PBC (the discussion was about pox walker armies with one or two PBC), the daemon codex was not released yet (not even previewed) and he simply edited all the numbers not fitting his argument out of quotes and claimed that his point was proven.


We?

Even without the Daemon codex and on a 1-1 basis the point was proven

You had no rebuttal. You demanded 'mathhammer,' then didn't like the mathhammer so decided mathhammer wasn't the be all and end all.

It's not like the conversation cam't be read over again as the fellow said.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/23 18:57:51


Post by: dan2026


What are people recommendations for Poxwalker unit sizes and general strategy.

I am planning on 2 x 20 models, supported by Typhus and maybe Necrosius too


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/23 19:19:40


Post by: WindstormSCR


 blackmage wrote:
unless they FAQ any unit with DEMON and NURGLE faction keywords can benefit from things like doomsday bell.


incorrect, the FAQ only covers stratagems, not unit abilities (Epidemius, herald auras, doomsday bell, etc)

so yes, if you had a unit of 3 haulers and one was destroyed, you could doomsday bell it back to life at no reinforcement point cost. Same trick could be pulled with CSM nurgle-marked obliterators.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/23 20:35:06


Post by: Nightlord1987


 dan2026 wrote:
What are people recommendations for Poxwalker unit sizes and general strategy.

I am planning on 2 x 20 models, supported by Typhus and maybe Necrosius too


One unit 20, then I start one unit 10 as a back up, and add to it with pts remaining.

This way I have one pox in the front, and a back up Pox unit behind it depending on turn 1. I also always add in some Cultists units in too to feed the farm. Usually more cultists than pox walkers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/24 14:46:42


Post by: Claas


 WindstormSCR wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
unless they FAQ any unit with DEMON and NURGLE faction keywords can benefit from things like doomsday bell.


incorrect, the FAQ only covers stratagems, not unit abilities (Epidemius, herald auras, doomsday bell, etc)

so yes, if you had a unit of 3 haulers and one was destroyed, you could doomsday bell it back to life at no reinforcement point cost. Same trick could be pulled with CSM nurgle-marked obliterators.


Then you stick those obilterators next to a Gnarlmaw. I really wish they were not finecast.

As for the Blight-Haulers, how much would this increase their value? I know they are pricey and do not have a good weapons load-outs, but Getting a 8w daemon engine back on a 4+ is nice, and their rules are decent. I been holding off on aquiring them but I do have a GUO so this might change my mind.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/24 19:53:55


Post by: Commissar_Rex


Claas wrote:

As for the Blight-Haulers, how much would this increase their value? I know they are pricey and do not have a good weapons load-outs, but Getting a 8w daemon engine back on a 4+ is nice, and their rules are decent. I been holding off on aquiring them but I do have a GUO so this might change my mind.


Yeah, the bell definitely makes for some interesting list ideas. Myphitic blight-haulers, plague drones, pox riders, and nurglings are all given a 50/50 shot at restoring a dead squadmember. For every turn a reduced unit starts a turn within 7" of GUO you essentially gain the following points for free. MBH- 71, PD- 17, Pox Riders- 31.5, Nurglings- 9

If you build around it, that sort of efficiency is brutal. For the MBH in particular: you're tough as nails to start with, you'll spend more time hitting on 3s, keep up more -1 to hit bubbles, and can really make your opponent feel foolish for targetting them at all. Pox riders are another great pick, staying at above 6 for the -1 to hit for even longer.

I've never even seen an MBH- anyone have good experiences?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/24 20:47:41


Post by: buddha


 Commissar_Rex wrote:
Claas wrote:

As for the Blight-Haulers, how much would this increase their value? I know they are pricey and do not have a good weapons load-outs, but Getting a 8w daemon engine back on a 4+ is nice, and their rules are decent. I been holding off on aquiring them but I do have a GUO so this might change my mind.


Yeah, the bell definitely makes for some interesting list ideas. Myphitic blight-haulers, plague drones, pox riders, and nurglings are all given a 50/50 shot at restoring a dead squadmember. For every turn a reduced unit starts a turn within 7" of GUO you essentially gain the following points for free. MBH- 71, PD- 17, Pox Riders- 31.5, Nurglings- 9

If you build around it, that sort of efficiency is brutal. For the MBH in particular: you're tough as nails to start with, you'll spend more time hitting on 3s, keep up more -1 to hit bubbles, and can really make your opponent feel foolish for targetting them at all. Pox riders are another great pick, staying at above 6 for the -1 to hit for even longer.

I've never even seen an MBH- anyone have good experiences?



I've used and seen them and they are ... not good. Low damage output, shoddy BS, and they can be tarpitted. However, like the PBC with spitters, it gets a new look with the evil nurgle tree since it can't be locked within it's aura which helps tremendously.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/24 21:18:46


Post by: Jidmah


Hauler basically plays the same as a faster and harder to kill hellbrute with MM/Missile launcher, with less BS and WS. In units of 3 they should be better than hellbrutes.

I'd like to point out that your opponent can simply kill the GUO instead of allowing you to revive half your army. 18 T7/5++ wounds should be doable for most armies with good anti-tank.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/25 09:54:56


Post by: COLD CASH


Just played a random doubles tourny with spitter PBC's, with only 3, flyers were a pain but with 10 i really dont see them as much of a problem. Even on hitting on 5's and 6's the mortars and stubbers put in real good work, if you can find the points for those gnarlmaws i think the list would be very strong.

Dark eldar melted etc, i didnt have the right support for them at 1000 points and only once got a synergistic partner.

Also choked lanes would be a night mare.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/25 12:31:54


Post by: Mandragola


A friend claims that his crawlers and haulers list with Epidemius works very well. I haven't seen it in action.

I'm not sure if it would be worth adding a GUO to that. The downside of the bell is that it nerfs his hitting power substantially. That said, it would leave your opponent with only very tough things to fire at.

Trees, on the other hand, seems to provide a huge benefit. Being able to fall back and shoot makes an enormous difference to both crawlers and haulers. +2 on their armour saves is no bad thing either. I can even see a case for bringing Horticulous along. I imagine that a decent battalion could be made of him, Epidemius and maybe a Spoilpox Scrivener, supported by a spearhead of crawlers (maybe with a DP as HQ) and some haulers.

It would probably cost a lot more points than I'm imagining though. Maybe instead of planting trees during the game it's good enough to just have a few in your deployment zone.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/25 14:33:27


Post by: Jidmah


Trees don't provide cover to monsters or vehicles, so no cover for haulers, GUO, DP or PBC.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/25 15:43:06


Post by: Mandragola


 Jidmah wrote:
Trees don't provide cover to monsters or vehicles, so no cover for haulers, GUO, DP or PBC.
Oh yeah. Keep forgetting that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/25 19:12:52


Post by: buddha


If you are already bringing Morty and Typhus do you think it's better to take a malignant plaguecaster or a LoC? I'm going to be using the archcontamintor WT either way.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/25 22:12:38


Post by: blackmage


really dont find a reason to play a lord of contagion


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/26 06:41:13


Post by: BrianDavion


 blackmage wrote:
really dont find a reason to play a lord of contagion


yah the Lord of Contagion is one of those baffling "what use is it" codex options that GW occasionally gives you. useally it's a teritary unit, but in this case it sucks as it's what is clearly intended to be the death guard "Captain"


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/26 10:27:16


Post by: Jidmah


I use mine as Terminator Chaos Lord with chain axe *shrugs*


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/26 12:39:38


Post by: Fan67


If only they gave him re-roll aura.
I use mine for ... Age of Sigmar Lord of Plagues.
Also converted one of the spare Blightbringers into the Lord of Blight. Ended up quite cool actually.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/26 16:47:21


Post by: Dew


Yeah if he had a lords reroll aura I would actually use him


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/26 18:15:30


Post by: Nightlord1987


You could do worse. There is no reason for me to field my Lightning Claw Terminator lord in a Death Guard list anymore when he gets zero Death Guard buffs and a balesword is cheaper.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 15:53:09


Post by: MilkmanAl


Just to revisit the PBC spam issue, the previous poster referring to it as "not competitive" may need to rethink things some. Looks like that list went 5-1 at LVO, losing in the first round to an eldar army. I'm surprised similar lists weren't more popular, and I'm also confused how the eldar player won, as his list doesn't seem very well suited to deal with the PBCs. I skimmed through the rest of the entries and didn't see more than that one PBC spam list, which is baffling to me. I did notice a bloat drone spam list that finished in the middle of the pack. Interesting stuff.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 17:14:08


Post by: Danny slag


MilkmanAl wrote:
Just to revisit the PBC spam issue, the previous poster referring to it as "not competitive" may need to rethink things some. Looks like that list went 5-1 at LVO, losing in the first round to an eldar army. I'm surprised similar lists weren't more popular, and I'm also confused how the eldar player won, as his list doesn't seem very well suited to deal with the PBCs. I skimmed through the rest of the entries and didn't see more than that one PBC spam list, which is baffling to me. I did notice a bloat drone spam list that finished in the middle of the pack. Interesting stuff.


Because I'm using the proper definition of the word competitive, as in competition and playing a game. Rather than the 40k try-hard definition where competitive means printing off a cheesy broken net list and then going into auto-pilot with no tactics or actual competition in the match needed. Might as well just compare lists, declare a victor and call it a day. I prefer to actually play a game.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 17:42:33


Post by: MilkmanAl


Hmmm...last I checked, competition involved doing your best to win/succeed. This guy was also the only one at a highly-competitive tournament running that list, so i'm not seeing how your argument about printing off some "netlist" holds. I'm sorry the fact that his army is dedicated to being rock-hard and bashing heads instead of fluffy and diverse bothers you, but that's what tournaments are about. No need to get upset about it. Just go play with friends or something.

If you're not trying to win, you don't really need a tactics thread, now do you? Maybe this isn't the right place for an anti-tournament crusade?

Anyone else have thoughts on the LVO outcomes?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 17:43:46


Post by: SilverAlien


I'd like a look at the list, can't for the life of me find it anywhere online.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 18:51:24


Post by: MilkmanAl


PBC spam https://imgur.com/gallery/JD6tK


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 20:23:11


Post by: Jidmah


According to this link, you can get it from an app:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/01/21/a-guide-to-media-coverage-of-the-2018-las-vegas-open/


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 00:19:31


Post by: buddha


If you were there make a DG list that focuses on mortal wound generation what would be your must haves?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 02:21:42


Post by: SilverAlien




He got 13th looks like, was an anti meta list I guess? Did good against dark reapers, then fell apart when it hit one of the imperial lists if I'm reading chain of events right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 buddha wrote:
If you were there make a DG list that focuses on mortal wound generation what would be your must haves?


The new sorcerer, anything that could cast smite, and I think we had a relic that did this. Plus the generic stratagem and maybe the one that turns daemon engines into suicide bombs?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 02:37:28


Post by: Ix_Tab


MilkmanAl wrote:
Hmmm...last I checked, competition involved doing your best to win/succeed. This guy was also the only one at a highly-competitive tournament running that list, so i'm not seeing how your argument about printing off some "netlist" holds. I'm sorry the fact that his army is dedicated to being rock-hard and bashing heads instead of fluffy and diverse bothers you, but that's what tournaments are about. No need to get upset about it. Just go play with friends or something.

If you're not trying to win, you don't really need a tactics thread, now do you? Maybe this isn't the right place for an anti-tournament crusade?

Anyone else have thoughts on the LVO outcomes?


I'm not convinced "that's what tournaments are about" my suspicion is only a relatively small % of the attendees of that tournament would consider running such a list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 02:49:27


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


This thread has a plain divide between 'FLGS competitive' and 'ITC top table competitive' it seems.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 02:58:32


Post by: SilverAlien


Well, that's because something like lvo has its own meta, whose discussion isn't really that useful or relevant for most players.

When you can reasonably expect the majority of other players to have variations on 1-2 lists, building counter lists is very viable. For example, this tournament appears to have been melee marines with guard buddies and ynarri+altioc reaper spam.

Plus, I highly doubt anyone at lvo comes here for advice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 03:03:19


Post by: Ecdain


Competitive is what wins, period. Not some bull about fluff or meta. Look at the facts, dude took pbc spam to one of the most well known tourney's around and went 5-1 for 13th place. That is 100% competetive, unless you beat him and not just some random guy at an flgs who doesn't know how to pilot it, noone can say otherwise.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 03:10:52


Post by: SilverAlien


Ecdain wrote:
Competitive is what wins, period. Not some bull about fluff or meta. Look at the facts, dude took pbc spam to one of the most well known tourney's around and went 5-1 for 13th place. That is 100% competetive, unless you beat him and not just some random guy at an flgs who doesn't know how to pilot it, noone can say otherwise.


Again that's... not really how this works. One or two anti meta builds generally get in because it's all down to who you fight early, as later on the dominant armies are generally easy to predict. Also, it's got four units in it, most people can pilot it. I'm sorry but let's not kid ourselves.

Yes we can take some knowledge from this, that PBCs are really underpriced for their durability and make for rather hilarious jack of all trades vehicles when taken in mass. But this list worked in a very specific closed environment, one where all the PBC's strengths happened to be leveraged.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 06:19:19


Post by: elk@work


 buddha wrote:
If you were there make a DG list that focuses on mortal wound generation what would be your must haves?

clearly smth with high yield and spammable... smite is the first thing to consider - I'd go for plaguecasters and maybe add a pure daemons detachment for cheaper herolds and alternative powers to get more outcoming casts... then, plague marines buffed by biologus - spammable, very hign mortal wounds output...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 19:45:38


Post by: Emicrania


If spamming to the infinity is a definition of competitivity, than we are playing different games.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/29 23:25:56


Post by: Ecdain


 Emicrania wrote:
If spamming to the infinity is a definition of competitivity, than we are playing different games.


Our definitions do not matter, what wins is all that defines competitiveness. If you FEEL that lists shouldn't be so spammy, that's a personal opinion and I respect that, but that does not change what people win competitions with.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/30 00:00:10


Post by: Jidmah


 Emicrania wrote:
If spamming to the infinity is a definition of competitivity, than we are playing different games.


Spam is usually a symptom of bad internal balance meeting competitive gaming.

It's pretty much the same in any strategy game that has ever tried to balance their game - competitive players will play whatever is the most powerful, unless mixing armies is the most powerful way to play, spam will continue to happen.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/30 02:19:47


Post by: orkswubwub


Ran a spearhead(?) detachment of PBC at LVO with spewers. Definitely my MVP of the entire tournament.

Just to highlight PBC list may lose for a variety of reasons in an ITC scoring setting even if it wasn't going to be "tabled." Almost all games ended after 3 and probably max of 4 turns.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/30 03:09:34


Post by: buddha


orkswubwub wrote:
Ran a spearhead(?) detachment of PBC at LVO with spewers. Definitely my MVP of the entire tournament.

Just to highlight PBC list may lose for a variety of reasons in an ITC scoring setting even if it wasn't going to be "tabled." Almost all games ended after 3 and probably max of 4 turns.


How did you avoid them getting tarpitted?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/30 08:04:17


Post by: orkswubwub


 buddha wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
Ran a spearhead(?) detachment of PBC at LVO with spewers. Definitely my MVP of the entire tournament.

Just to highlight PBC list may lose for a variety of reasons in an ITC scoring setting even if it wasn't going to be "tabled." Almost all games ended after 3 and probably max of 4 turns.


How did you avoid them getting tarpitted?


It isn't so hard if you know the movement and advance of enemy troop units. 3 PBC is only 140x3 of my force in points (circa - from memory atm) so even if they tarpit one crawler it really isn't a huge deal. I did get tarpitted really badly 1 game against crazy poxwalker list but otherwise a bloodletter bomb was enough to dissuade most people from trying to run in real quick. Deepstrikers are obvious so you know when and when "not" to put PBC in front (block with troops etc.). Playing against a recon oriented IG list for example went really well as the flamers just chewed up the units as he tried to advance to the different corners.

Another game - Played against IG player who went top 30 in the champs tourny in a causal 2v2 the next day and PBC was again MVP that game in zoning and ensuring Death by a thousand cuts. You just throw them up the board and dare them to shoot - any action against it is really rewarding as all the damage is just wasted. Even better if people think BGH will work.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/31 04:31:33


Post by: y0disisray


From what I understood the only real reason he lost game one was because he had super cold dice. I heard he couldn't roll over a two to save his life. He very well could have easily gone 6-0. At the end of the day, everyone's definition of what competitive is/should be is their own opinion. Unfortunately I do think that GW may look into nerfing the PBC one way or the other which sucks for most DG players who only run 1-3.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/31 14:30:53


Post by: Wayniac


People are crying about the PBC but really it's not good unless you're like that guy and take a ton of them, in which case I would argue the problem is being able to take a ton of them, not the unit itself. I find them pretty lackluster.

In fact, going off on that tangent, I find most of the DG anti-tank/armor options lackluster. I've tried 1 PBC and 3 Blight-Haulers, and it doesn't seem like enough. Seriously tempted to be "that guy" and get a Leviathan or two.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/31 16:59:37


Post by: Kzraahk


That's because Blight Haulers don't really have much damage output

I've been doing well with 2 cannon PBCs, 2 squads of marines with 3 weapons each and a Blightspawn.

The times they weren't enough were either due to me making mistakes or having a really bad rolls


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/31 19:15:45


Post by: Xirax


Maybe you guys could help,
I just bought some new DG/chaos models to alter my DG.
I got a PBC, MBH, 5x BL termies and a termie sorcerer.

I'm planning on making a patrol detachment (best?) to get warp time for my Nurgle DP or just boost my blightlord termies. Any suggestions for chapter? combi-melta, why not?

Termies I'm planning to not magnetize and I'll make one guy with the flail and three with axes and combi-bolters, but for the champion? combi-melta & axe? Would have some synergy with the sorcerer if it also takes the combi-melta.. Or better kit selection, only got one box of termies..

PBC seem that I can magnetize the spitter vs. entropy..

I'm not planning on getting any more DG models for a while so I want to do these right the first time, so if you guys could give pointers if I'm doing it all wrong.

Thanks. All these mini's will be facing the DA&BA list in the army list section in a test game before I face the RG list in a month. I'll probably throw another batrep for you with those.. Last game wasn't so good for the DG, unless you count the "sequel" part


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/31 22:40:32


Post by: Jidmah


Kzraahk wrote:
That's because Blight Haulers don't really have much damage output

I've been doing well with 2 cannon PBCs, 2 squads of marines with 3 weapons each and a Blightspawn.

The times they weren't enough were either due to me making mistakes or having a really bad rolls


Eh, when you think about it, the hauler has two anti-tank weapons that do d6 damage. That's basically two entropy cannons on a PBC, a twin lascannon on a hellbrute or a predator annihilator without sponsons. All those options are roughly as expensive as the hauler and have more to offer.

In my experience the hauler is a jack of all trades, it does some damage to vehicles, kills some elite infantry, is good at tying down combat units with -2 to hit, provides some minor buffs to infantry etc. You get a mixed bag of stuff that's pretty much worth the points, but it doesn't actually excel at anything it does - and you'll only get your points worth if you use as much of it as possible, which I have found to be difficult as many of its skills are exclusive to others. Can't move fast and buff infantry, can't shoot and tie down units in combat, can't screen units and get into melta range at the same time.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/31 23:15:26


Post by: Kzraahk


Yes, but you can get a PBC for roughly the same price. Different roles I know, but Crawlers can stand more than an enemy shooting phase


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/02/01 14:10:04


Post by: whirlwindstruggle


 Nightlord1987 wrote:
You could do worse. There is no reason for me to field my Lightning Claw Terminator lord in a Death Guard list anymore when he gets zero Death Guard buffs and a balesword is cheaper.


Yup, same situation, lovingly converted LC Terminator Lord now rides as a 'counts as' unit exclusively.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/02/02 21:15:35


Post by: Claas


i have a question, typically how many extra poxwalkers should I have on hand if I want to build a poxwalker list with a cultist Fodder? An extra poxwalker for each cultist?