Claas wrote: i have a question, typically how many extra poxwalkers should I have on hand if I want to build a poxwalker list with a cultist Fodder? An extra poxwalker for each cultist?
Just a few is enough. Unless you're going to min max on a list where your opponent has no other targets than poxwalkers or cultists, odds are good he'll just ignore the cultists altogether.
Cultists are not a threat. That means the stratagem is usually just ignored as your opponent kills your poxwalkers first or ignores the cultists altogether. The only way to get around that is by giving him no other targets really.
+ HEAVY SUPPORT +
Plagueburst Crawler [146]: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Plagueburst Crawler [146]: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
++ DEATH GUARD SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT ++
+ LORD OF WAR +
Mortarion [470]
This comes to 1791 so far. I am not sure what I should look at adding to the list to round it out to 2000; i'm not sure what I would be lacking that I could consider shoring up on. I don't actually own Mortarion yet (considering buying him soon).
Any suggestions/recommendations? The only thing I would absolutely refuse to add is Tzeentch stuff (e.g. brimstones) because of fluff reasons.
+ HEAVY SUPPORT +
Plagueburst Crawler [146]: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Plagueburst Crawler [146]: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
++ DEATH GUARD SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT ++
+ LORD OF WAR +
Mortarion [470]
This comes to 1791 so far. I am not sure what I should look at adding to the list to round it out to 2000; i'm not sure what I would be lacking that I could consider shoring up on. I don't actually own Mortarion yet (considering buying him soon).
Any suggestions/recommendations? The only thing I would absolutely refuse to add is Tzeentch stuff (e.g. brimstones) because of fluff reasons.
Needs Warptime, and I have (personally) been underwhelmed by the Blightbringer in my games... advancing 2d6 is nice to get the Walkers into position quicker, but my few games have seen the walkers getting charged early enough to make the BB not worth the 60 points. Guess if I faced more guard might see better use. Also, needs a Cultist screen to create more walkers, or at least give opponents something to shoot besides your walkers. T3 walkers will die pretty quickly compared to T4
Question: Why there are 19 Poxwalkers instead of 20?
I can find no plausible reason. First idea is that Joshua required 70pts to summon a unit of Plaguebearers or Pink Horrors and with total cost of perfect split for 30 pink horors at 480pts the only way to get 70pts was to drop one pox.
BUT perfect split is so unlikely and only 1 less brimstone split would give same result...
My head hurts...
I feel so stupid now hadn't asked before started to go crazy in my theories.
Thank you, Captyn_Bob.
Tournament rules affecting unit sizes haven't crossed my mind at all.
I soon will field simmiliar list at 2250pts tournament. Currently in the process of excessive testing between Aquila Strongpoint and Plasma Obliterator.
In my opinion Joshua's list lacks Tallyman and deep strikers, and Plasma Obliterator along with more points in general will allow to fill the gapes.
Hard to net-list his roster for my local meta, but I love the idea.
But in today's game Aquila managed to provide 4 consequtive turns of appreciable shooting, in one turn she yielded 9 mortal wounds.
First turn she wiped out 5-man GK strike squad, second turn 4 man from GK strike squad, third and forth turn obliterated squads holding key EW markers.
Along with "Gaze of Fate" it feel more reliable that it seems, even if your CP pool is under pressure from holding pink horrors together and poxwalkers unreachable.
I proxy my aquila with "missile silo" part of my Fortress of Redemption, does anyone have any picktures to compare them together?
I would not even consider that list "Death Guard". It's basically chaos soup. But I also would not consider that guy who brought 9 Plagueburst Crawlers to be playing "Death Guard" either. To me, unrelated to death guard, the best list I've seen from LVO was that pure Blood Angels list (with Primaris!) who was in the Top 8. No BS, no soup, no egregious min/maxing from various sources just because you can.
I soon will field simmiliar list at 2250pts tournament. Currently in the process of excessive testing between Aquila Strongpoint and Plasma Obliterator.
In my opinion Joshua's list lacks Tallyman and deep strikers, and Plasma Obliterator along with more points in general will allow to fill the gapes.
Hard to net-list his roster for my local meta, but I love the idea.
My biggest problem with Joshua's list was a reliance on starting the poxwalkers embarked AND using the Dead walk on it at the start of the turn (despite units being embarked being unable to be affected "in any way"). The TOs ruled that it was legal for the LVO, but I would not expect that ruling to apply for other tournies.
I soon will field simmiliar list at 2250pts tournament. Currently in the process of excessive testing between Aquila Strongpoint and Plasma Obliterator.
In my opinion Joshua's list lacks Tallyman and deep strikers, and Plasma Obliterator along with more points in general will allow to fill the gapes.
Hard to net-list his roster for my local meta, but I love the idea.
My biggest problem with Joshua's list was a reliance on starting the poxwalkers embarked AND using the Dead walk on it at the start of the turn (despite units being embarked being unable to be affected "in any way"). The TOs ruled that it was legal for the LVO, but I would not expect that ruling to apply for other tournies.
Yes, it was a very gamey ruling in my opinion.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wayniac wrote: I would not even consider that list "Death Guard". It's basically chaos soup. But I also would not consider that guy who brought 9 Plagueburst Crawlers to be playing "Death Guard" either. To me, unrelated to death guard, the best list I've seen from LVO was that pure Blood Angels list (with Primaris!) who was in the Top 8. No BS, no soup, no egregious min/maxing from various sources just because you can.
I agree!
I'm really sick of soup lists dominating, I want to see actual thought placed in lists instead of "spam X unit 1000000x!" I really believe there should be limits on how many of certain types of units can be fielded (for example, you can only take 2 PBC's per Battalion) or something like that... I'd like to see more variety in what people are fielding. Each army has more than 2-3 options, ya know? Bring back the old FOC!
Wayniac wrote: I would not even consider that list "Death Guard". It's basically chaos soup. But I also would not consider that guy who brought 9 Plagueburst Crawlers to be playing "Death Guard" either. To me, unrelated to death guard, the best list I've seen from LVO was that pure Blood Angels list (with Primaris!) who was in the Top 8. No BS, no soup, no egregious min/maxing from various sources just because you can.
I agree!
I'm really sick of soup lists dominating, I want to see actual thought placed in lists instead of "spam X unit 1000000x!" I really believe there should be limits on how many of certain types of units can be fielded (for example, you can only take 2 PBC's per Battalion) or something like that... I'd like to see more variety in what people are fielding. Each army has more than 2-3 options, ya know? Bring back the old FOC!
Me to but that won't happen. I'd like to see ITC put those restrictions in place, since GW will not. I hate feeling like I can't win because I want to run a pure Death Guard list, and not run the "Poxwalker Farm". Tournament or not, the hobby is still a thing that should be respected, and IMHO that includes the rich background (which to me is the only reason to play 40k; there are way better competitive games out there if you only care about a solid game, so I have to imagine that people choose to play 40k because of the background and models). This is part of why I think there needs to be comp/sportsmanship again; a warhammer tournament should be about more than who goes undefeated.
Did GW state somewhere forces would be rewarded for being pure or somesuch? I have a vague recollection of reading something to that effect? It seems DG is downright punished without warptime.
It is unfortunate how much warptime improves some units, eg Morty. The blight bombardment stratagem is potent but rather corner case without it.
I think the issue is more of the Adeptus Hereticus powers (warptime+precience+death hex) being too strong. I think GW is aware of this, considering that Belakor is missing the two most powerful powers from that list.
Ix_Tab wrote: Did GW state somewhere forces would be rewarded for being pure or somesuch? I have a vague recollection of reading something to that effect? It seems DG is downright punished without warptime.
It is unfortunate how much warptime improves some units, eg Morty. The blight bombardment stratagem is potent but rather corner case without it.
Yes they did. Originally GW stated that command points would be a reward for pure detachments/playing fluffy; it was one of many things they went back on as 8th edition came out, and probably erased all trace of them saying it like they've done before.
I think it's implied that the balancing factor for Morty is that Death Guard do NOT get native access to Warptime; Thousand Sons get access to it, but the fact we alone don't seem to indicate that's intentional as a weakness (Death Guard being slow), it's just because detachments and soup exist, we can completely ignore that built-in weakness, and as a result it becomes "mandatory" to find a way to get that thing which nullifies your weakness.
I don't want to derail this into a rant on why I feel detachments are bad, so I'll leave it at the fact that they let you completely ignore your weaknesses.
Jidmah wrote: I think the issue is more of the Adeptus Hereticus powers (warptime+precience+death hex) being too strong. I think GW is aware of this, considering that Belakor is missing the two most powerful powers from that list.
He's missing 3 powers because they were all written to affect Heretic Astartes only, which is useless to him. They apparently didn't want to re-write them to be able to affect Daemons, so they removed them. (he has Death Hex by the way, he doesn't get Warptime, Prescience, and Diabolic Strength)
Also, to be fair, Be'Lakor is absolute trash now, so not sure if this is to nerf him or because they were simply too lazy to determine whether making DH powers available to Daemons would create balance issues.
Looking at all 3 morty is dead competitively if he isnt way back or lucky 1st turn if you didnt start.
The 2 Greater daemon are able to deepstrike and though they arnt morty when it come to CC they have both got nice range weapons and both have excellent CC.
I think rotigus for 5 points more is a better choice for a 1st turn charge, 2 deny the witch with 2 casts 3 spells with a built in MW charge mechanic.
CC 5+d6 s7A -1 1D or 5 S8 -2 D3
vs GUOCC 5 S8 -3 D6
So is it peoples opinion that morty despite the fact hes awesome is now defunct in high tier play by these 2 GUO? Simpler to get into combat and almost as tough.
Much much cheaper!
Going to run 1 in a Nurgle chaos daemon detachment in place of Mortarion.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: You can deepstrike the GUO/Rotigus but then he still has to sit out there for a turn. All the best offensive spells/shooting etc are less than 9".
If you fail the charge and he will still be full health after 1st turn if they go 1st.
Dead walk again says “choose unit” not “choose unit on the battlefield. So it is pretty widely considered to affect embarked poxwalkers. At least it is so in my local meta, so I will give it a shot. It is more akin to stratagems used to units before battle or during deployment.
Also you guys forget that DG clearly has access to Warptime from Sorcerer on Palanquin of Nurgle from Index Chaos, albeit many tournaments nowadays prohibit indexes for Codexed factions (which I approve).
I am trying idea similiar to Joshua’s because my meta is toxically filled with reaper spam, shining spears, alpha strike marine soups and alpha strike csm. My other DG lists are being wiped in first 2-3 turns, while DeadWalkAgain&Split list will only blossom. I love the idea of becoming stronger with more I get hit. And this idea is very nurlesque to my liking.
Looking at all 3 morty is dead competitively if he isnt way back or lucky 1st turn if you didnt start.
The 2 Greater daemon are able to deepstrike and though they arnt morty when it come to CC they have both got nice range weapons and both have excellent CC.
I think rotigus for 5 points more is a better choice for a 1st turn charge, 2 deny the witch with 2 casts 3 spells with a built in MW charge mechanic.
CC 5+d6 s7A -1 1D or 5 S8 -2 D3
vs GUOCC 5 S8 -3 D6
So is it peoples opinion that morty despite the fact hes awesome is now defunct in high tier play by these 2 GUO? Simpler to get into combat and almost as tough.
Much much cheaper!
Going to run 1 in a Nurgle chaos daemon detachment in place of Mortarion.
yes but... Mortarion can be targeted by warptime and Guo not... so in competitive lists Mortarion will always have access to warptime and charge turn one, all depend who start 1st, ds is great but if you fail the charge Guo die like Mortarion only advantage is he is cheaper.
Ecdain wrote: Competitive is what wins, period. Not some bull about fluff or meta. Look at the facts, dude took pbc spam to one of the most well known tourney's around and went 5-1 for 13th place. That is 100% competetive, unless you beat him and not just some random guy at an flgs who doesn't know how to pilot it, noone can say otherwise.
Again that's... not really how this works. One or two anti meta builds generally get in because it's all down to who you fight early, as later on the dominant armies are generally easy to predict. Also, it's got four units in it, most people can pilot it. I'm sorry but let's not kid ourselves.
Yes we can take some knowledge from this, that PBCs are really underpriced for their durability and make for rather hilarious jack of all trades vehicles when taken in mass. But this list worked in a very specific closed environment, one where all the PBC's strengths happened to be leveraged.
so pretty much you are saying you, or for that matter of fact anyone, could have done well with that list right? good luck with that. The list is good, but is far from autoplay and many hard choices you will have to make vs certain armies.
No, that list is basically find something that works and take as many of it as you can, just like most of the other "competitive" trash lists you tend to see at a tournament. That's not thought or good play, it's playing the numbers.
kaintxu wrote: so pretty much you are saying you, or for that matter of fact anyone, could have done well with that list right? good luck with that. The list is good, but is far from autoplay and many hard choices you will have to make vs certain armies.
I'd say playing a few games with it should make it really apparent how you run it. It's not super hard to see what the parts are for as is. I'm also guessing it is a stall list that depends on durability and slow play, could be wrong on that.
Wayniac wrote: No, that list is basically find something that works and take as many of it as you can, just like most of the other "competitive" trash lists you tend to see at a tournament. That's not thought or good play, it's playing the numbers.
They are competitive, they are not trash lists. If you want to play beer and pretzels 40k, I really encourage you, but don't come to a 40k tactics forums to say a competitive list if trash because it is min maxing or spamming. It is perfectly thought and well played for the environment it was created, and I dare you to do well with such a list. I bet Don can probably go to your meta and spam you all with it.
SilverAlien wrote:I'd say playing a few games with it should make it really apparent how you run it. It's not super hard to see what the parts are for as is. I'm also guessing it is a stall list that depends on durability and slow play, could be wrong on that..
All lists are apparent after you play a few games if you are a good player, but then you have to make many decision based on who you are playing against, and that's were the player comes in. Why didn't you win LVO (maybe you didn't attend) and why are Nick and Alex always up there even if others are also taking their lists?
Every list is apparent after you see it in action by someone else.
I can't argue that PBC spam is pretty obvious list to come up with, but very hard to execute. Also characters supporting this list are clearly not obvious.
I would certainly prefer Arch-contaminator Daemon prince with wings to run along the tight phalanx of PBC - which is very far from how it's been actualy played out during LVO.
I wonder if I have enough blue horrors miniatures for poxwalker/horrors combo. I have 150 pox, 35 blue and 120 brim. As far as I know you first remove blue/brim before pinks, so it seems I don’t need to max my blue count up to 60 theoretical maximum.
While initially assembled 80 poxwalkers from four dark imperium sets very soon proved to be inadequate and I have to use 70 maradeurs of chaos as proxy for extra zombies.
So which is the better (more survivable) Warlord option for Daemon Prince:
Death Guard Prince with Revoltingly Resilient, Miasma power, Suppurating Plate Relic Armor
CD Daemon Prince with Plaguefly Hive, Fleshy Abundance power, Corruption Relic Sword (using the old GUO model)
I've been taking CD as Warlord and paying for the DG relic armor, but I might want to save a CP and stick with just 1 relic.
I like the idea of Plaguefly hive being a guaranteed always-on Miasma (albeit shorter ranged) with the ability to heal from both psychic power, and CD Strategems, But the DG prince is just as tanky, and more survivable against ap -1, ap-2 weapons.
The downside to the DG prince being the terrible Tactical Objectives DG get, and my group is exclusive to Maelstrom play.
most depend where you throw him, some units are a though nut to crack, some form of defense should be welcome, foe example a Ts Dp with weaver of fates+demonic strenght is a nice mix for me.
Did they FAQ Mortarion to not be able to take advantage of the Daemon deepstrike strat?
I'd be disappointed if they have, I had a list worked out around it :C
Tiberius501 wrote: Did they FAQ Mortarion to not be able to take advantage of the Daemon deepstrike strat?
I'd be disappointed if they have, I had a list worked out around it :C
Only faction daemon units can use the daemon strats post faq.
Tiberius501 wrote: Did they FAQ Mortarion to not be able to take advantage of the Daemon deepstrike strat?
I'd be disappointed if they have, I had a list worked out around it :C
Only faction daemon units can use the daemon strats post faq.
Tiberius501 wrote: Did they FAQ Mortarion to not be able to take advantage of the Daemon deepstrike strat?
I'd be disappointed if they have, I had a list worked out around it :C
Mortarion never had demon faction keyword so he cant use ds stratagem
Any value in running bloat drones with fleshmowers and stacking on some chaos soup for virulent blessing and blades of putrefication? There are some nice bonuses for +1 damage to nurgle deamons on wounds 6+ (nurgle locus), mortal wounds on 7+, and double damage on 7+.
This works out to 1 bonus damage on dice rolls of 4, and 4 bonus (1 MW, 2 from double damage, and 1 from nurgle locus) on wound rolls of 5 and 6. Plague weapon allows rerolls as well for all 1's - there is possible prescience / reroll of 1's.
Slightly different benefit on blightlords but with VOTLW and Blades with a plague flail the models perform reasonable clear. It is nice to think about actually having a use for diabolic strength by putting it on the model with flail (Extra -1 AP is nothing to sneeze at).
Now the goal is to have multiple ways of using this - so the entire list isn't built around 1 model - which if it dies blows up. The list is not fully optimized but I had been toying with something like:
Supreme Command - All nurgle:
Daemon Prince of Chaos - Wings - Malefic - Warlord (+1 to wound?)
- Virulent Blessing
Daemon Prince of Chaos - Malefic talons
- Nurgle's Rot
Rotigus
- Miasma of Pest
- Shrivelling Pox
Poxbring
- Fleshy Abundance
CSM - Alpha
Chaos Sorcerer with Jump
- Gift of Chaos
- Diabolic Str Chaos Sorcerer with Jump
- Prescience
- Warptime
3x10 cultists
DeathGuard
Typhus
- Curse of the Leper
- Blades of Putrefication
Chaos Lord with Jump
- Vanilla
Blightlord Terms
- All with bubotic Axe and combi except for 1 with flail
3x Foetid Bloat Drones with Mowers
So multiple targets for warptime (bloatdrones, blightlords, typhus, sorcerers, etc.)
Virulent landing on any CS Daemon Prince, or fleshmowers is nice. Inclusion of CSM detachment allows use of daemonforge for the Bloatdrones as well for 1CP I believe. Ability to split blades on foetid drones or on blightlords. Blightlords also benefit from an additional -1 AP. Also with plague weapons to minimize loss to rolls of 1 on wounds.
Typhus with standard mortal wound aura benefit to DG units.
Hidden under this is if Shrivelling Pox which helps with the gift of chaos and Curse of the Leper. Fall back is also to dish lots of smite. Also benefits the blightlord/sorcerer combibolters for rapid fire clear of chaffe.
Rotigus and Blightlords act as primary damage sink - with enough CP to -1Invul Rotigus after deepstrike and to get miasma on him.
Playstyle would likely be to DS in typhus, blightlords and rotigus and a sorcerer. Run bloatdrones up to screen for DP and jump pack sorcerer and ensure target priority , while deepstrikers soak fire. Cultists cap points.
Clocks in at exactly 2000 Points... it is a little low on shooty ranged but the mobility is high and makes good use of nurgle locus, strong psychic and smite as a fallback.
In an effort to keep an army pure DG with rumors that soup lists will be punished coming march, I need a way to keep Morty alive which basically leaves deathshroud. Yes they are mediocre, yes they should have three wounds but we get what we get.
As such I'm finding that three only absorbs a bit of damage so I'm curious if anyone has run 5-6 before and if you could let me know their success/failure in the larger unit? Thanks!
buddha wrote: In an effort to keep an army pure DG with rumors that soup lists will be punished coming march, I need a way to keep Morty alive which basically leaves deathshroud. Yes they are mediocre, yes they should have three wounds but we get what we get.
As such I'm finding that three only absorbs a bit of damage so I'm curious if anyone has run 5-6 before and if you could let me know their success/failure in the larger unit? Thanks!
buddha wrote: In an effort to keep an army pure DG with rumors that soup lists will be punished coming march, I need a way to keep Morty alive which basically leaves deathshroud. Yes they are mediocre, yes they should have three wounds but we get what we get.
As such I'm finding that three only absorbs a bit of damage so I'm curious if anyone has run 5-6 before and if you could let me know their success/failure in the larger unit? Thanks!
What is this rumor source?
Picked up from the rules guys who were present at LVO. Nothing concrete and could end up being nothing but seems logical. You can check the rumors and general discussion section for more. Wanted to start playing that way in case true as worst case nothing changes and I just ally in some warptime help.
I've tried using 5 Deathahroud and don't really know if they're overly worth it. They die really fast and I find Morty still dies in a couple of turns. But then I fight Ultras so I charge into their lines and then they move out and hurt him more and then charge him with Guilliman who seems to do more dmg than Morty.
I feel like he needs a base save of 2+ to soak up more small ams fire and Deathshroud need 3 wounds. I dunno, I find it to just be focus fired to death every match and Morty does little more than kill maybe a unit before he goes down and the Deathshroud just die before they make it into melee to use all those attacks that make them so expensive.
Really disappointing to be honest, but maybe I'm just using them wrong
I feel like Deathshroud used as a shield for Mortarion is too situational to be effective. The way I see it:
1) You deploy them on the board to protect Mortarion against an Alpha strike.
2) You deploy them after moving Mortarion up the field.
Option 1 essentially means the Deathshroud unit is useless, or at the very least their effectiveness is severely diminished, after that first turn as they cannot keep up with Mortarion unless you reduce his movement to stick with them. Now you have a 650+ point version of Mortarion that is more resilient but slower. While option 2, the better of the two options to me, leaves Mortarion vulnerable to the alpha strike if you don't get first turn. This would happen anyway without the Deathshroud as Mortarion is definitely the scariest thing to most other players.
I tend to just use my three man Deathshroud unit as deepstriking chargers who hopefully get into combat after they drop, or at the very least pose as distractions.
Honestly - tactical oversight is probably key and there may not be one best way (even within the same list) of using them -
Know that whoever deploys first has about a 63% chance of going first after all seize objective etc. (so either build your list with few units to hedge or calculate at the table)
- Maybe if you go first you will deepstrike them near opponent but if opponent goes first more likely to put near Morty, etc.
Determine how shooty / primary threats from opponent army - plan accordingly (i.e. are you against IG mortar spam? Tau fusion commander blaster spam? Or against a ton of nid genestealers? Did opponent bring deathhex?) The postioning for each of these scenarios will vary - as does the need to face rush mortarion forward (typical strat but not necessary if opponent is primarily melee etc.).
Ideally one would want to put a lascannon shot on the Deathshroud but probably not for example 5Str bolter spam (due to differences in toughness) etc.
- Put mortarion and termies on table late in deployment to judge what the threat radius of each of your opponents units are to do your best to ensure they are only shooting you with what you want and/or expect (you cannot deny fireprism or basilisk shots but at least you know up front what to expect and plan accordingly, for some units like hell blasters positioning in the beginning makes a huge difference due to different threat range - or even against heavy weapon teams that may have to move slightly to shoot you)
I agree one of the limitations of the Deathshroud is the lack of mobility - their melee as a standalone can be viscous however (11 attacks at 8str, -3 AP and D3 damage - with reolls to wounds of 1) - and small synergies like lord of contagion or rerolling 1's makes them standalone fairly well against medium to high cost units on the charge.
Not sure about Mortarion's actual size, but wouldn't a bastion to block LOS for some enemy shooting be better at hindering alpha strikes than Deathshrouds?
strangely it also seems very meta, in a sense that his main cloud flies terminator bomb runs with growth pox. so an untargettable main strike force and an undesirable target to shoot in pox.
Zid wrote: So I just came into a Demons codex and a starter Nurgle army (PB's, herald, some drones) for $45... all NOS. I'm stoked!
Anyone have any good things to say combining our nurgle demon friends with DG?
Read the blog i posted above!
The player did extra well because he did not read about the faq not allowing poxwalkers to spawn off new poxwalkers, allowing him to build huge conga lines all over the center of the board. This error was only discovered after the tournament, and which would have turned around or affected most of his games' results.
Zid wrote: So I just came into a Demons codex and a starter Nurgle army (PB's, herald, some drones) for $45... all NOS. I'm stoked!
Anyone have any good things to say combining our nurgle demon friends with DG?
Read the blog i posted above!
The player did extra well because he did not read about the faq not allowing poxwalkers to spawn off new poxwalkers, allowing him to build huge conga lines all over the center of the board. This error was only discovered after the tournament, and which would have turned around or affected most of his games' results.
Ah were you there? so how does the new pox faq work if you have 1 left do you get capped on dead walk again by how many models can surround him?
All models created during one phase need to be within 2" of that pox walkers. You can basically create two rings around the one pox walker, which is around 18 models. Cases where you cannot place a new pox walker should be rare.
strangely it also seems very meta, in a sense that his main cloud flies terminator bomb runs with growth pox. so an untargettable main strike force and an undesirable target to shoot in pox.
Yeah I read that with interest because I've been jamming around with Blightlords in combination with Nurglings and Cloud of Flies for the past 2 weeks, and it really does work well. I'm going to try it with the sorc, but part of the beauty of the module is you don't actually need a whole lot more than those 3 things, leaving plenty of room for other ways to go with the army.
Jidmah wrote: All models created during one phase need to be within 2" of that pox walkers. You can basically create two rings around the one pox walker, which is around 18 models. Cases where you cannot place a new pox walker should be rare.
ah cool thats fine im not bothered by the cant string rule, and the 1 model to 18 is fine by me as well.
so, I have to ask here. If I face an imperium with scout sentinels, and I have nurglings. What happens? Does his scoout sentinels make their scout move first or do my nurglings deploy first ? Both of these happen before the first turn starts.
Eldenfirefly wrote: so, I have to ask here. If I face an imperium with scout sentinels, and I have nurglings. What happens? Does his scoout sentinels make their scout move first or do my nurglings deploy first ? Both of these happen before the first turn starts.
You deploy your nurglings during deployment.
Scout sentinels move After deployment before the first turn.
Zid wrote: So I just came into a Demons codex and a starter Nurgle army (PB's, herald, some drones) for $45... all NOS. I'm stoked!
Anyone have any good things to say combining our nurgle demon friends with DG?
I've added DG to my daemons recently. 3 flesh mower drones and a DP is a nice speedy punch to bring some extra oomph to mono nurgle lists. Worked really well with epidemius.
Deep struck GUO are very nasty, I've found that in my nurgle lists, people just don't have the firepower to deal with Nurgle daemons that well. I also run 9 plague drones, and they do real serious work.
So I just got back from Wet Coast GT.. and I ran a list with 4 PBC. 3 Had flamers and 1 entropy. The entropy canons in all of my games just didn't feel worth it in comparison to the flamers. Only in one game did it make its points back by popping a transport and putting some wounds on a baneblade.. and most of the time it just sat there and died first turn which didn't soak up too much enemy shooting. Here are a few reasons not to take entropy cannons;
1. They hit on 4's. I prescience'd it every round with CSM allies to make it hit on 3's. Most stuff it had to shoot had toughness 8. So 2 shots hitting on three's then wounding on 4's to do D6 damage. This is assuming they have no negative hit modifiers too which most tournament players protect their big stuff with or just in general run a list favoring that you cant hit them as well.
2. When they move your shooting REALLY goes to crap unless you spend 1 cp. Found hitting on 4's hard? Try hitting on 5's. Most games I would deploy it at my last drop and even when staring down the barrel at its target they moved out of LOS and either I had to board position it again or shoot something less desirable.
3. They dont get re-rolls from your Warlord. A huge thing all tournament was moving the Spitters PBC near my warlord with arch contaminator and a Poxbringer. That made the flamers STR 8 2D6 autohits and re-roll ALL failed wounds. Never was aI ever scared to move a PBC up midfield and be charged. It melted most stuff that dared trying and that was only 1 of the 3 loaded out that way.
4. 36" range. YEAP. Seeing this range point out how much it doesn't compare to other shooty tanks was noted by this alone. They would simply just move outside the 36" range and make me move again suffering the hit modifier.
5. Spitters are versatile and if you plop your PBC ontop of an objective first turn, odds are your opponents will think twice about trying to get that objective unless they really have to. Several games opponents would all together try to avoid them and go elsewhere but with 3 midfield they couldnt hid much anywhere.
I understand 1 entropy cannon PBC might not have been enough but the facts above dont change anything. Even if I rolled 3 with entropy cannons they would still suffer similar penalties and be outranged most games. In the tournament scene it felt like Spitters were the way to go especially when you can buff them with a Poxbringer or Epidemius. All in all I went 4-1 and placed top 10 so I was happy, but next time I would just bring all 4 with spitters. My opponents were Tau (he came 2nd in the event), World eaters zerker spam in rhinos (actually killed a rhino), Spacewoves scouts predators (36" range woes) and wulfen bombs, Eldar Alataioc (this really sucked to play against -1 hit), and lastly another chaos soup featuring Alpha legion and Renegades Baneblade (-1 to hit against AL). My SoS score was ~15000 and definitely showed because it felt like everyone knew how to just make the Entropy canons PBC bust or be useless. I'd like to note only one game I couldn't fall back with 1 of my PBC flamers, but it didn't matter because he was on an objective and my blood letters came and bailed him out.
This screams at me a different Anti tank method. As much as blightlords may be hit or miss I 100% believe they would have done much better than the Entropy cannons PBC. Thats if you want to keep your army pure DG. Or just trying to tie up the enemy shooting in general would have been better. Which I had to do with my Daemons detachment bloodletters. You can check out the list on BCP app. First place went to Eldar/Ynnari btw (who would have guessed that right?? lol I jokes.)
To summarize, great fun in casual games.... but in competitive play I found it vastly countered by current meta and negative modifiers made it really struggle at what it does best. Hope this helps people a bit in their choices on Spitters over Entropy cannons in a list whether it be pure DG or chaos soup.
devk88 wrote: So I just got back from Wet Coast GT.. and I ran a list with 4 PBC. 3 Had flamers and 1 entropy. The entropy canons in all of my games just didn't feel worth it in comparison to the flamers. Only in one game did it make its points back by popping a transport and putting some wounds on a baneblade.. and most of the time it just sat there and died first turn which didn't soak up too much enemy shooting. Here are a few reasons not to take entropy cannons;
1. They hit on 4's. I prescience'd it every round with CSM allies to make it hit on 3's. Most stuff it had to shoot had toughness 8. So 2 shots hitting on three's then wounding on 4's to do D6 damage. This is assuming they have no negative hit modifiers too which most tournament players protect their big stuff with or just in general run a list favoring that you cant hit them as well.
2. When they move your shooting REALLY goes to crap unless you spend 1 cp. Found hitting on 4's hard? Try hitting on 5's. Most games I would deploy it at my last drop and even when staring down the barrel at its target they moved out of LOS and either I had to board position it again or shoot something less desirable.
3. They dont get re-rolls from your Warlord. A huge thing all tournament was moving the Spitters PBC near my warlord with arch contaminator and a Poxbringer. That made the flamers STR 8 2D6 autohits and re-roll ALL failed wounds. Never was aI ever scared to move a PBC up midfield and be charged. It melted most stuff that dared trying and that was only 1 of the 3 loaded out that way.
4. 36" range. YEAP. Seeing this range point out how much it doesn't compare to other shooty tanks was noted by this alone. They would simply just move outside the 36" range and make me move again suffering the hit modifier.
5. Spitters are versatile and if you plop your PBC ontop of an objective first turn, odds are your opponents will think twice about trying to get that objective unless they really have to. Several games opponents would all together try to avoid them and go elsewhere but with 3 midfield they couldnt hid much anywhere.
I understand 1 entropy cannon PBC might not have been enough but the facts above dont change anything. Even if I rolled 3 with entropy cannons they would still suffer similar penalties and be outranged most games. In the tournament scene it felt like Spitters were the way to go especially when you can buff them with a Poxbringer or Epidemius. All in all I went 4-1 and placed top 10 so I was happy, but next time I would just bring all 4 with spitters. My opponents were Tau (he came 2nd in the event), World eaters zerker spam in rhinos (actually killed a rhino), Spacewoves scouts predators (36" range woes) and wulfen bombs, Eldar Alataioc (this really sucked to play against -1 hit), and lastly another chaos soup featuring Alpha legion and Renegades Baneblade (-1 to hit against AL). My SoS score was ~15000 and definitely showed because it felt like everyone knew how to just make the Entropy canons PBC bust or be useless. I'd like to note only one game I couldn't fall back with 1 of my PBC flamers, but it didn't matter because he was on an objective and my blood letters came and bailed him out.
This screams at me a different Anti tank method. As much as blightlords may be hit or miss I 100% believe they would have done much better than the Entropy cannons PBC. Thats if you want to keep your army pure DG. Or just trying to tie up the enemy shooting in general would have been better. Which I had to do with my Daemons detachment bloodletters. You can check out the list on BCP app. First place went to Eldar/Ynnari btw (who would have guessed that right?? lol I jokes.)
To summarize, great fun in casual games.... but in competitive play I found it vastly countered by current meta and negative modifiers made it really struggle at what it does best. Hope this helps people a bit in their choices on Spitters over Entropy cannons in a list whether it be pure DG or chaos soup.
It would require soup but have you also thought about daemonforge for 1 cp? Rerolling 4's and then rerolling 4's again should bring you close to 75% per and also would affect the mortar. I am in a similar state where the flamers are amazing but feel some lack of dakka for ranged. Blightlords with plasma can be somewhat squishy for their price (imho) and require some babysitting with swarm of flies. I'd rather have my opponent shoot my PBC that is 8T 12W 5++ 5+++ for 140 points.
devk88 wrote: So I just got back from Wet Coast GT.. and I ran a list with 4 PBC. 3 Had flamers and 1 entropy. The entropy canons in all of my games just didn't feel worth it in comparison to the flamers. Only in one game did it make its points back by popping a transport and putting some wounds on a baneblade.. and most of the time it just sat there and died first turn which didn't soak up too much enemy shooting. Here are a few reasons not to take entropy cannons;
1. They hit on 4's. I prescience'd it every round with CSM allies to make it hit on 3's. Most stuff it had to shoot had toughness 8. So 2 shots hitting on three's then wounding on 4's to do D6 damage. This is assuming they have no negative hit modifiers too which most tournament players protect their big stuff with or just in general run a list favoring that you cant hit them as well.
2. When they move your shooting REALLY goes to crap unless you spend 1 cp. Found hitting on 4's hard? Try hitting on 5's. Most games I would deploy it at my last drop and even when staring down the barrel at its target they moved out of LOS and either I had to board position it again or shoot something less desirable.
3. They dont get re-rolls from your Warlord. A huge thing all tournament was moving the Spitters PBC near my warlord with arch contaminator and a Poxbringer. That made the flamers STR 8 2D6 autohits and re-roll ALL failed wounds. Never was aI ever scared to move a PBC up midfield and be charged. It melted most stuff that dared trying and that was only 1 of the 3 loaded out that way.
4. 36" range. YEAP. Seeing this range point out how much it doesn't compare to other shooty tanks was noted by this alone. They would simply just move outside the 36" range and make me move again suffering the hit modifier.
5. Spitters are versatile and if you plop your PBC ontop of an objective first turn, odds are your opponents will think twice about trying to get that objective unless they really have to. Several games opponents would all together try to avoid them and go elsewhere but with 3 midfield they couldnt hid much anywhere.
I understand 1 entropy cannon PBC might not have been enough but the facts above dont change anything. Even if I rolled 3 with entropy cannons they would still suffer similar penalties and be outranged most games. In the tournament scene it felt like Spitters were the way to go especially when you can buff them with a Poxbringer or Epidemius. All in all I went 4-1 and placed top 10 so I was happy, but next time I would just bring all 4 with spitters. My opponents were Tau (he came 2nd in the event), World eaters zerker spam in rhinos (actually killed a rhino), Spacewoves scouts predators (36" range woes) and wulfen bombs, Eldar Alataioc (this really sucked to play against -1 hit), and lastly another chaos soup featuring Alpha legion and Renegades Baneblade (-1 to hit against AL). My SoS score was ~15000 and definitely showed because it felt like everyone knew how to just make the Entropy canons PBC bust or be useless. I'd like to note only one game I couldn't fall back with 1 of my PBC flamers, but it didn't matter because he was on an objective and my blood letters came and bailed him out.
This screams at me a different Anti tank method. As much as blightlords may be hit or miss I 100% believe they would have done much better than the Entropy cannons PBC. Thats if you want to keep your army pure DG. Or just trying to tie up the enemy shooting in general would have been better. Which I had to do with my Daemons detachment bloodletters. You can check out the list on BCP app. First place went to Eldar/Ynnari btw (who would have guessed that right?? lol I jokes.)
To summarize, great fun in casual games.... but in competitive play I found it vastly countered by current meta and negative modifiers made it really struggle at what it does best. Hope this helps people a bit in their choices on Spitters over Entropy cannons in a list whether it be pure DG or chaos soup.
Tbh i m trying to get a list with 2 pbc and blightlords +flies combination in one list.
And my thoughs are yes pbc with flamers seems the right choise mobility is what we looking for and if you manage to stay still good for you. since you can chance your warlord dp around with flamers i see pcb for average 140 points better than drones better than max blightlords better than oblis etc.
yes obliterators could do a nice job a tiny bit less points 2x3 group but the whole point around this list building is cloud of flies making practically your blightlords immune to death.
rest of the army is extremely resilient with cultis bomb and reanimation. With poxwalkers behind for for ever screener makes this list a bad a@@. Still working the details but im close . I try to fit all goodness if anyone got suggestions go for it. the main theme
csm provide sorc for warptime precience or even Dxex.
Cultists inf and reanimation 40x
Typhus and poz screeners for ever zombies
blightlords combiplasma for damage and cloud to stay alive
Pcb for mobile damage los shooting and dp roaming.
now i v started using the trees seem perfect to me though i still use them in other lists but i can see 1 being summoned here.
hf
I still don't get the utility you apparently see with them. If you get within 9" of an enemy your PBC is useless for the majority of the remaining game, unless you totally clear the enemy infantry which frankly I feel most enemies should be able to avoid. The spam list I get, that's relying on durability for slow play and redundancy to mean some stay free regardless. But in normal play I don't see how that could ever be useful. I suppose provoking a misplay by making your enemy not want to tie down your big expensive tank with chaff, but that's only going to work until they realize one turn of overwatch really isn't a major threat, unless we are talking units of 10 cultists or grots.
It's easy to keep out of range of either the entropy cannons or flamers, but at least with one you actually have a meaningful bit of board control. And yes, multiple PBC with entropy cannons make it very hard to constantly outrange all of them, even keeping them in danger of the warlord trait I've never found it hard to cover most of the board, so that something will always be in range.
I can only see running the flamers if you legitimately don't need any more anti tank\big units and would rather focus on more anti infantry in case you run up on an enemy with few big units.
SilverAlien wrote: I still don't get the utility you apparently see with them. If you get within 9" of an enemy your PBC is useless for the majority of the remaining game, unless you totally clear the enemy infantry. The spam list I get, that's relying on durability for slow play and redundancy to mean some stay free regardless. But in normal play I don't see how that could ever be useful. I suppose provoking a misplay by making your enemy not want to tie down your big expensive tank with chaff, but that's only going to work until they realize one turn of overwatch really isn't a major threat, unless we are talking units of 10 cultists or similar.
It's easy to keep out of range of either the entropy cannons or flamers, but at least with one you actually have a meaningful bit of board control.
I can only see running the flamers if you legitimately don't need any more anti tank\big units and would rather focus on more anti infantry in case you run up on an enemy with few big units.
i was running the pbc with range weapons usually max range ones as artillery and you still can. Take them park them and use them.
what we talking now is aggressive play and board control. we got blightlords that will deep strike and try to execute you got slow v slow screeners but durable and you need some mobility. Instead of taking bloat drones i suggest or i us ein my list if you prefer and aggresive deployment of pbc with a Gnarlmaw .making them affectively movable durable threats that if you decide to hold them still los arty. and obviously can fall back and shoot with Tree. And if you believe you can charge my pcb every turn with 2d6 flamer minimum without buffs poxbringeers etc then come for it. we talking about an absolute board control with 40 cultist bomb. 2 pcb and dp for aggression blightlords for deepstrike power and elimination and poxwalkers for endless screener. What else can you ask? as i see it ofc. for me this list got all you will need to face any army. might not have the best anti tank or best anti infantry but you surelly got options.
prescience for blightlords and cloud of flies. or deth hex for bad enemies.
arty and mobility. Tree poxbringer dp for flavor and all needs.
You got a blop of 40 cultist i use them with 4x stubbers slansh double shooting reanimated if need.
Poxwlakers spread all around to grow as cultist dies.
2-3 nurglins. It can win most scenarios and you can wor around the ones you might now win. might struggle vs a heavy tank list but you will still have and able to have 9-10 blightlord plasma shooting 5-rounds more than many other pure gunlines can shoot undisturbed.
you can for a bit more casual play use rotigus or 1x3 obliterators. can fit same plan. and have fun.
SilverAlien wrote: I still don't get the utility you apparently see with them. If you get within 9" of an enemy your PBC is useless for the majority of the remaining game, unless you totally clear the enemy infantry. The spam list I get, that's relying on durability for slow play and redundancy to mean some stay free regardless. But in normal play I don't see how that could ever be useful. I suppose provoking a misplay by making your enemy not want to tie down your big expensive tank with chaff, but that's only going to work until they realize one turn of overwatch really isn't a major threat, unless we are talking units of 10 cultists or similar.
It's easy to keep out of range of either the entropy cannons or flamers, but at least with one you actually have a meaningful bit of board control.
I can only see running the flamers if you legitimately don't need any more anti tank\big units and would rather focus on more anti infantry in case you run up on an enemy with few big units.
Is this from experience? Theorycrafting aside - PBC placed strongly in LVO and I share the sentiments of others who have used flamers that they are hands down amazing (In about 10 tournament games PBC flamers were good everytime, IG, Nids, Chaos, Drukhari, Grey Knights, Imperium soups). Even if they are in melee it is only 140 point committment. Ok melee it for days, whatever. Furthermore if you have multiple and they engage one, if there is room to disengage you can flamer with the other two. Warptime opens possibilities.
Granted the decision between bloat drone and PBC is a tough one as the ability to fly wherever you want and flamer is good as hell. However the 1 less toughness makes a huge difference as well as fewer wounds. It is a compromise - mobility for less toughness.
Big picture - something in your army is going to get shot every turn. Why not have it be a PBC?
Also someone is going to have to explain the hype to me of gnarlmaw on PBC - as I see there being practically 0 benefit - yeah you get to retreat and shoot but you will probably be surrounded or be in a place where other units can shoot/engage.
Gnarl-maw and PCB flamer makes 140 average points drone and you can move as you need to continue have the ability. What we practically say is you can have 2-3 pcb even as artilery with less screener cause even if you get locked in combat you d be able to fall back and use them again.While range weapons got not so much affective use with this on bs 5+ you surelly gonna have options as agreesive flamer usage if you summon the tree where you need your tanks to provoke enemies. all the list to provide 9 blight lords shooting for all Game rounds. If the list was working fine with 9 blight lords so far why not get 2 pcb and a tree to work better. thats my thoughts and my list you dont have to take it.
From my own play, I've never found a situation where I was desperate for the spitters.
See, generally my PBC aren't exposed to the enemy melee/short ranged troops, due to alternatively poxwalkers or plaguebringers depending on the exact list I'm using. This is usually true till well into the game, by the time my screen has been knocked down the game is often decided. Thus I use cannons, which maximize early game damage.
I could use the PBC without any sort of screen or more aggressive infantry portion... but why? Generally speaking, poxwalkers are a mainstay of our lists for a reason and plaguebringers are wonderful for holding objectives, particularly post daemon codex. These are units I'd already be using, positioning them to also guard my tanks early on is rarely a major concession. A couple of barebones cultists units to help fill in the gaps to deny deepstriking is all I really need to keep them cacooned, and that's almost worth it for the CP alone.
When I have tried to use them more aggressively, I found they got in the way, and even when they did work I often found they were doing a subpar job of being a drone. With the main cannon reduced to a 5+/6+, slower move speed and lack of fly, I found they weren't offering me anything I couldn't have but better.
I just don't see the utility in it unless you are deliberately leaving your PBC exposed, which seems such a trivial saving in points when I often have more infantry than I need as is. Possibly due to focusing on CP to a large degree (I generally consider 9 cp the lowest I'll go), but again I've generally found that to be a successful strategy.
I've been much more positive towards mixed melee/ranged types, particularly in our army with the dreads and drones all of who combine firepower, mobility, and melee in a wonderful way, but I never get that. I feel like the PBC with spotters is constantly performing worse than a different vehicle would.
Even the gnarlmaw confuses me. It'd be cheaper and more CP efficient to simply screen the PBC than bother with the gnarlmaw.
I've accepted it's useful when taken as a full army as we saw at the tournament, in that situation you'd obviously go with spitters and it clearly works (though I've heard that army list depended heavily on slow play maximizing the importance of early game losses which... is a viable strategy but not one I personally want to emulate).
Jidmah wrote: All models created during one phase need to be within 2" of that pox walkers. You can basically create two rings around the one pox walker, which is around 18 models. Cases where you cannot place a new pox walker should be rare.
Actually 25mm base is less than 1", so you can fit 3 circles around a single poxwalker. There might be a problem fitting them base-to-base, but I managed to fit more than 18 models for sure, around 25 did fit, and if you use "narrow" models this number could get higher.
P.S. I think pink horrors in deepstrike with spare points for split are better screening unit for terminators than poxwalkers.
So has anyone done a plague drone spam? They are really durable, can put out some nice damage... and I own like 6 of them. I was thinking about running 2 outrider detachments of them with daemon princes, mostly for fun, but I wanted to see if anyone else had tried it in the past. I'll probably run 3 with fleshmowers and 3 with spitters.
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Slaanesh
Sorcerer: Bolt pistol, Delightful Agonies, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists: 29x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
Cultist Champion: Shotgun
Chaos Cultists: 6x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, 3x Chaos Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon, Mark of Slaanesh
Cultist Champion: Shotgun
Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon, Mark of Slaanesh
Cultist Champion: Shotgun
Cultist bomb and blood letters go in reserve, I setup nurglings to deny them both deepstrike spots and early zone control granting recon easy. If they are melee or have DS I setup cultist bomb near half way up board and utilize the space to deny deep strike area further. In all my games played in the tournament The closest someone deep striked was still halfway up the board because they infiltrated scouts on the otherside after I setup the first drop of nurglings on one side. Most of the time cultist bomb just meant to open up a small hole in meat shield for blood letters to just charge right on through. Add in the fact you can spend 3cp to fight again I essentially had the range of 3D6 +3inch first pile in, +3inch second pile in, and 3inch consolidation. Not to mention blood letters hit like a truck so yeah they did their job weakening and distracting/ touching tanks EASY. One point they rolled a 15" charge making them basically touch anything they wanted and tied it up in combat. My DG moved fast up the board advancing and rolling into position, once midfield most my games were to shutdown their board presence. Not a single game did I lose midfield or have units in my back lines.
The only issue I found with the list is nothing really hits super hard. Beside the Foul Blightspawn. He literally wrecked a unit of terminators that waited to deep strike in a pocket made by scouts deployment. But the biggest thing is with Spitters autohitting and on average either str 7 or 8 (thanks Poxbringer and epidemius) most infantry based lists just melted away. If it was a tank company... well lets just say they couldn't get out of combat with the blood letters. See paragraph above, the movement and janky tactics with bloodletters really shuts down tank companies if I just put enough wounds on meat shields to make any opening. Every opponent I played except zerker list had a meat shield and every single time the Bloodletters got through and touched a large part of their army to tie them up. Nurglings tied up stuff too pretty well. Lots of people tend to ignore the nurglings and then all of a sudden they charge a predator and that 54pts unit shutsdown a 190pts model haha.
The utility of entropy cannons suck. 36" range was the nail in the coffin most games. If you have to place your PBC near the brim of your deployment zone just to get that 36" to be in range it usually rang out bad news bears. It was easy for it to either be blown off the board, or touched by people doing bum rush using shining spears from eldar or and jetbikers/fly units. Holy cow shining spears hurt so much. Luckily easy to clean up with flamers. Spitters on every occasion outperformed the entropy cannons. Most of the time if they hit on 6's I just advanced into a board control position and surrounded it with cultists so they couldn't be charged (you have to fit your model within 1" to lock it in combat) and so it sat safely on an objective and murdered anything that got close.
Foetid Bloat drones worked great, but PBC with spitters always performed just as well or better due to T8 and 12 wounds. Nothing successfully wrapped the PBC due to its overwatch and even if it did they barely dented it and just fall back 2" still on an objective and melt the unit with stuff nearby. A guy using mostly FBD and blighthaulers found them underwhelming compared to PBC as well. T8 3+5++ Disgusting resilient saves are just too insane.
Side note: the tourney was WYSIWYG so had I had the models I would have used all autogun cultists
PBC with entropy cannons: easily blown off the board, had to deploy them so close to the frontline they can easily be focused fired and screening does nothing to protect from scary melee units.
PBC with spitters: insanely tough nothing could even scratch them, being at the front they were still untouchable and scary melee units never got in melee range thanks to constant screening.
I'm going to keep harping on this because that literally makes no sense. It sounds like your enemies prioritized that entropy cannon unit and ignored the others. Which is actually is justification for simply taking more entropy cannon PBCs, not for taking none.
I will say I'm starting to consider taking defliers based on this discussion, as they basically do the job described but slightly better and with less babysitting (unless facing massed str 7/8 weapons, which is kinda ironic given that's what they both use).
I've played around with a babysitter defiler for my DG and it does okay. At 167 points for a scourge and reaper autocannon, it is a big scary anchor threat. Ironically, I treat the battlecannon like the mortar on spitter PBCs as just a nice to have but never to be relied upon. Just move it up the field and dare an opponent to get within charge range.
Problem is you could just take another PBC or bloat drone for the cost which is always a tough choice.
How? Defiler has compareable durability to PBC, more firepower, and is scarier to get close to, for a slight upcharge. It does the PBC+spitter's job a lot better in general, with a lot less babysitting.
If this is a useful role (in itself something I question outside certain edge cases) what makes PBC so good at it over defiler? I mean, maybe meta (it does perform better vs reaper launchers and can ignore hit modifiers). Is that really it?
SilverAlien wrote: PBC with entropy cannons: easily blown off the board, had to deploy them so close to the frontline they can easily be focused fired and screening does nothing to protect from scary melee units.
PBC with spitters: insanely tough nothing could even scratch them, being at the front they were still untouchable and scary melee units never got in melee range thanks to constant screening.
I'm going to keep harping on this because that literally makes no sense. It sounds like your enemies prioritized that entropy cannon unit and ignored the others. Which is actually is justification for simply taking more entropy cannon PBCs, not for taking none.
I will say I'm starting to consider taking defliers based on this discussion, as they basically do the job described but slightly better and with less babysitting (unless facing massed str 7/8 weapons, which is kinda ironic given that's what they both use).
They both can be killed the same. Different units target a PBC with spitters most of the time. Since it is highly underrated most people try infantry or midfield units to kill one. Only a few games did a fireraptor or dark reaper squad try and unload into a PBC with spitters. Big guns still take it out but the amount of damage any of the PBC soak is huge. That aside it DOESNT change the fact the entropy cannons did nothing all tournament but kill a rhino. Most people had negative hit modifiers. Taking more would literally be a waste. All those wasted points barely yielding damage against any good opponent in a competitive scene.
Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 120pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Mark of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence, Prescience
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Nurgle
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
+ Heavy Support +
Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator
++ Total: [115 PL, 2000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Ate me some eldar. List performed much better than expected.
With my testing i found i was running too elite(coming from space wolves) adding the pox blob really increased my board control. It also added late game obj camping which i lacked with earlier lists.
I cloud of flies my terms the turn after they ds. Seems cloud is illegal on the turn they ds. From war40k email.
As always the foulblight is awesome. Plague spitter pbcs are super solid.
Terms and oblits solid as well.
This list was based of the Singaporean cloud of flies list, really enjoyed it and it all went to plan.
Though cloud of flies is supposedly illegal on a deepstrike unit from war40k email.
So i kept the unit smaller so it woudnt attract as much fire and clouded them the turn after they deepstriked.
Looks like a rounded list, do you play this in ITC format and if so how do you find it? Also with the lower CP amount do you find yourself CP starved at all?
Thats a great looking list.
I'm planning to take the same CM patrol detachment except I think I'm right in saying if you change the Obliterator's allegiance to Slaanesh you can get the strategem that allows you to shoot twice in the shooting phase for 2cp.
Might be worth checking out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also warptime on blightlords after they ds could be handy. Or if you took one with flail, diabolic strength on that model gives you a little more bite.
Hey DG fellows! Grey Knights player here, just wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me on how to deal with Foul Blightspawn? Just finished a game where a single Foul Blightspawn made back 6x his points (one shot 6 Paladins, and next round one shot a Doomglaive Dreadnought when he tried
charge) I couldn't shoot him because he was masked by loads of plague marines and plague bearers. Wasn't really sure how to deal with him and still unsure.
Goldenemperor wrote: Hey DG fellows! Grey Knights player here, just wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me on how to deal with Foul Blightspawn? Just finished a game where a single Foul Blightspawn made back 6x his points (one shot 6 Paladins, and next round one shot a Doomglaive Dreadnought when he tried
charge) I couldn't shoot him because he was masked by loads of plague marines and plague bearers. Wasn't really sure how to deal with him and still unsure.
Blightspawns are slow. If he's bringing that many points to protect it, you can either throw your cheapest units at them (Allied AM is awesome for this, but I'm guessing you play pure GK) so he has to chew through them instead of targeting more valuable characters, or just try to work around it and kill off the rest of his army. Plague Marines and Plaguebearers aren't much of a threat unless you buff them
Deadlypanda wrote: Thats a great looking list.
I'm planning to take the same CM patrol detachment except I think I'm right in saying if you change the Obliterator's allegiance to Slaanesh you can get the strategem that allows you to shoot twice in the shooting phase for 2cp.
Might be worth checking out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also warptime on blightlords after they ds could be handy. Or if you took one with flail, diabolic strength on that model gives you a little more bite.
yeh ill probably switch to slaanesh to get 2 firing turns.
Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 120pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Mark of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence, Prescience
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Nurgle
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
+ Heavy Support +
Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Nurgle, 3x Obliterator
++ Total: [115 PL, 2000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Ate me some eldar. List performed much better than expected.
With my testing i found i was running too elite(coming from space wolves) adding the pox blob really increased my board control. It also added late game obj camping which i lacked with earlier lists.
I cloud of flies my terms the turn after they ds. Seems cloud is illegal on the turn they ds. From war40k email.
As always the foulblight is awesome. Plague spitter pbcs are super solid.
Terms and oblits solid as well.
This list was based of the Singaporean cloud of flies list, really enjoyed it and it all went to plan.
Though cloud of flies is supposedly illegal on a deepstrike unit from war40k email.
!
So i kept the unit smaller so it woudnt attract as much fire and clouded them the turn after they deepstriked.
Close to my list some pointers ! As I see them in table.
3*crawlers tempting but you taking vital troop spot.
No nurglins will create great issues for you in heavy obj missions.
Oblish. Vs blightlords. Yes as you did first I made my list with 3obli and 5 blight. But the issue here and the true competitive aspect is cloud of flies on blightlords. that's where they shine they can survive till the end if you got enough troops.
So the 40 slanesh cultist bomb needs to be there. And the plagueburst after spitters I d take hard hitting guns. If you reduce the number of blight plasma use h slugger on plagueb you might start issues with heavy vehicle lists knights etc.
Winning more missions requires at least a culist bomb able to receive. Poxwalkers able to refill ranks and nurglins min 2* to protect your early lines etc etc. This combination need to exists to have a great competitive environment for the rest of the plan. My 50 cent
Goldenemperor wrote: Hey DG fellows! Grey Knights player here, just wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me on how to deal with Foul Blightspawn? Just finished a game where a single Foul Blightspawn made back 6x his points (one shot 6 Paladins, and next round one shot a Doomglaive Dreadnought when he tried
charge) I couldn't shoot him because he was masked by loads of plague marines and plague bearers. Wasn't really sure how to deal with him and still unsure.
Blightspawns are slow. If he's bringing that many points to protect it, you can either throw your cheapest units at them (Allied AM is awesome for this, but I'm guessing you play pure GK) so he has to chew through them instead of targeting more valuable characters, or just try to work around it and kill off the rest of his army. Plague Marines and Plaguebearers aren't much of a threat unless you buff them
If I deep strike won't my AM allies be farther back? And killing off a Nurgle/DG army is a tall order to get to a single unit and by that time the game would either be over or the Foul Blightspawn could have easily torched a higher end unit, the DG units tend to take a good beating before going down.
Maybe the better question is if you run Foul Blightspawn what don't you want to see across the board from you? Or see your opponent do?
I personally wouldn't want things that can shoot at me while staying out of my reach. Also I wouldn't want to be forced to go through lots of cheap infantry to get to the tank/character/whatever I am trying to take down. No matter how hard it hits, 1d6 hits can only do so much
Goldenemperor wrote: Maybe the better question is if you run Foul Blightspawn what don't you want to see across the board from you? Or see your opponent do?
Autarch with missile launcher and path finders.
They pretty much pick a DG character to die every turn.
buddha wrote: In an effort to keep an army pure DG with rumors that soup lists will be punished coming march, I need a way to keep Morty alive which basically leaves deathshroud. Yes they are mediocre, yes they should have three wounds but we get what we get.
As such I'm finding that three only absorbs a bit of damage so I'm curious if anyone has run 5-6 before and if you could let me know their success/failure in the larger unit? Thanks!
What is this rumor source?
Picked up from the rules guys who were present at LVO. Nothing concrete and could end up being nothing but seems logical. You can check the rumors and general discussion section for more. Wanted to start playing that way in case true as worst case nothing changes and I just ally in some warptime help.
Sorry to derail but Can you give an actual link? I Have searched for this but have not found any mention of rumored soup lists being punished.
Since 8th edition droped with the Dark Imperium boxe, I always though that the the Dual Plague spitter Foatid Bloat Drone was pretty Strong.
How viable would an army be if I spammed say, 8 to 9 of them ahahahah?
Here is a few things that came to mind:
- The Fly Keyword in general is just Really strong.
- Start them near a Feculant Gnarlmaw and a Noxious BlightBrigner. That way, they can move, Advance using 2D6 (pick the highest), Fire their nasty Plague Spitter and then Possibly charge Turn one for the Safety of Combat. The turn after that, they Retreat and Vomit on another Vulnerable target (Overwatch is as potent if they get charged, so).
- Your Fortification Detachment of Feculent Gnarlmaws is a Chaos Daemon Detachment. This gives you acces to some cool Stratagems. Daeminic Possession Helps you to capitalize on your opponants peril of the Warp. Denizens of the warp allows you to Deep Strike another Feculant Gnarlmaw near the ennemy frontline, allowing your Bloat Drones to Retreat, Shoot and then Charge Again.
- Babysit your Bloat Drone with a Jump Pack Character with the Arch-Contaminator Warlord trait. Your Bloat Drones within 7" will then be able to reroll all to wounds rolls.
- Fill your minimum troops with minimum squads of poxbringers. In later turns, you should be able to greatly bolster the numbers thanks to the Dead walks again Stratagem.
By targetting the oblivious Screen/Tarpits from your opponents's army with your plague spitters; You'll have a horde of Objective Scoring Poxwalkers in no Time!
- Epidemius would fit well in such a list.
- Bloat Drones explode more Easily for some "Easy" mortal wounds distribution.
- PoxBringer (Herald) can increase the STR of the Plague Spitters by one with its Locus of Nurgle.
Hey guys, looking for some input on a list I've been trying to work out. Thing is, I'm a fluff player, but that gets me wrecked. However, I'd like to keep as much fun narrative in a list as possible. Was wandering if this list would be competitive enough:
HQ - Lord of Contagion
- Plaguecaster
TROOP
- 7x Marines w/ 2x blight launchers, sergeant w/ plasma gun
- 7x Marines w/ 2x blight launchers, sergeant w/ plasma gun
- 20x pox walkers
ELITE
- Blightbringer
- Tallyman
- 5x Deathshroud
FAST ATTACK
- Bloat-drone w/ 2x spotters
HEAVY SUPPORT
- PBC w/ entropy cannons
- PBC w/ entropy cannons
LORD OF WAR - Mordeee (looks a little more like Pickle Rick though)
So basically I have 10 Command Points, just under 40 Poxwalkers with T4 (one with T5 if I use Putrescent Vitality) that can re-roll 1s on Disgustingly Resilient, and then I plan to use the Chaos Daemon stratagem to deep strike the Plaguebearers and the Scrivener at the least (not sure if I need to deepstrike the Poxbringer) either to form a large screen that has -1 to hit and Disgustingly Resilient, or to drop down onto an objective and require a large amount of effort to remove. The Poxbringer I'm thinking to give the spell that is -1 Toughness to an enemy unit, since that will buff the entire army, or maybe Virulent Blessing to make the plaguebearers better in combat, or Fleshy Abundance if I want to heal a crawler (they did not FAQ the spells to require NURGLE DAEMON faction keyword, just the stratagem right?), or if I want to be an ass the daemonic Miasma of Pestilence so I have -2 to hit Plaguebearers.
Necrosius I am not completely sold on, mainly because I don't have the model but he seems to be way better than a regular Malignant Plaguecaster for just 10 points more.
Also, does The Dead Walk work on poxwalkers themselves? So like if I had a unit of poxwalkers in front of another unit of poxwalkers, would the first unit feed into the second unit?
That's what I thought. Wondering if cultists would be better than the 2nd poxwalker squad then so I have something to feed them, so the opponent has the choice of shooting at plaguebearers with -2 to hit, cultists that will feed into potentially T5 poxwalkers, or plague marines I can beef up with Putrescent Vitality. may need to experiment
Fan67 wrote: In honor of the LVO List that could have made it.
Aquila Strongpoint:
Spoiler:
23-24 Feb is the tournament where I gonna test my version of the "zombie factory".
Proxied one in a 1500pt game against Genestealer Cult. He had a few venomthropes so I was hitting the valuable targets on 6s. I was unlucky since I didn't get a single 6 the whole game. Last turn it did 9 mortal wounds on his warlord though, which won me the game.
Will have to test it further, but I think armies with -1 to hit are a nightmare to it
Proxied one in a 1500pt game against Genestealer Cult. He had a few venomthropes so I was hitting the valuable targets on 6s. I was unlucky since I didn't get a single 6 the whole game. Last turn it did 9 mortal wounds on his warlord though, which won me the game.
Will have to test it further, but I think armies with -1 to hit are a nightmare to it
Yeah, hit modificators hit Aquila pretty hard. It could have been ultimate dark reapers counter if alaitoc couldn't make it 7+ to hit.
My tests are very positive vs alpha strike armies, but I have a guttural feeling that i rolled above statistics.
Have yet to face alaitoc with it.
Ate me some eldar. List performed much better than expected.
With my testing i found i was running too elite(coming from space wolves) adding the pox blob really increased my board control. It also added late game obj camping which i lacked with earlier lists.
I cloud of flies my terms the turn after they ds. Seems cloud is illegal on the turn they ds. From war40k email.
As always the foulblight is awesome. Plague spitter pbcs are super solid.
Terms and oblits solid as well.
This list was based of the Singaporean cloud of flies list, really enjoyed it and it all went to plan.
Though cloud of flies is supposedly illegal on a deepstrike unit from war40k email.
!
So i kept the unit smaller so it woudnt attract as much fire and clouded them the turn after they deepstriked.
Close to my list some pointers ! As I see them in table.
3*crawlers tempting but you taking vital troop spot.
No nurglins will create great issues for you in heavy obj missions.
Oblish. Vs blightlords. Yes as you did first I made my list with 3obli and 5 blight. But the issue here and the true competitive aspect is cloud of flies on blightlords. that's where they shine they can survive till the end if you got enough troops.
So the 40 slanesh cultist bomb needs to be there. And the plagueburst after spitters I d take hard hitting guns. If you reduce the number of blight plasma use h slugger on plagueb you might start issues with heavy vehicle lists knights etc.
Winning more missions requires at least a culist bomb able to receive. Poxwalkers able to refill ranks and nurglins min 2* to protect your early lines etc etc. This combination need to exists to have a great competitive environment for the rest of the plan. My 50 cent
Updated list. Dropped the terms for 2 pox bringers buffing the pbc to str8. And a teleporting plGuebringer unit as a distraction daemonofex.
Unsure wether go drop the drone for another blightspawn and a feculent to increase the versatility of tge pbcs.
This lists synergies are awesome, the double pox - double prince means my buffing range is huge and 6d6 str 8 -1 1d shots is amazing, i was rolling above avg hits 8+ per crawler and then avg 2 miss per 3 crawlers with arch contaminator, which was shredding units. My lone bloat drone did fine, but i keep wishing it was another pbc lmao.
So for a round of firing 3 crawlers i would hit 24x , wound 22x. The re roll ones came in very handy with cultists and the stubbers and mortar.
This list has all of what you talk about, it has area denial, ds denial, can camp objectives and is a proven performer so far in maelstrom. Im primarily testing with a friend that plays aldar and his list is tough. So im pretty happy with this list as close to its final form.
I may test a heldrake, because if i win 1st turn or seize im pretty sure it can ensure a win by limiting his dark reaper's shooting.
Alright guys I have an ITC I'm playing at tomorrow and this is going to be what I'm bringing. Any edits or thoughts on the list? The DP has a sword for WYSIWYG purposes . Also it was confirmed by GW that the Fugaris Helm does affect arch contaminator which is why that's the relic on the DP.
What's the best number of Chaos Spawn to take in a DG army and best use for them too? I have enough points for 4 of them and was thinking about chucking them in along side Morty and a drone for more distractions
You can add 33 cultists for that price. Spawns are only good at dying or filling out an Outrider dettachment if you don't have the points for a third drone
Well... Aquila list got me first place on local 14-man tournament. Review and photos pending due tomorrow.
Annihilated ultramarines, sob, daemons with 1ksons, eldars.
Kzraahk wrote: You can add 33 cultists for that price. Spawns are only good at dying or filling out an Outrider dettachment if you don't have the points for a third drone
Ah that's a shame :/ what could I use in their stead. Something similar but actually does their job well?
Fan67 wrote: Well... Aquila list got me first place on local 14-man tournament. Review and photos pending due tomorrow.
Annihilated ultramarines, sob, daemons with 1ksons, eldars.
Tiberius501 wrote: What's the best number of Chaos Spawn to take in a DG army and best use for them too? I have enough points for 4 of them and was thinking about chucking them in along side Morty and a drone for more distractions
Spawn are a solid choice. They just work very differently from 7th edition. In 7th. they were basically fast transports for some good HQ, but didn't kill anything themselves.
Now they aren't that fast or durable anymore, but can actually kill something. Usually there are a lot of things that are more scary than spawn so they can actually make it into combat.
Tiberius501 wrote: What's the best number of Chaos Spawn to take in a DG army and best use for them too? I have enough points for 4 of them and was thinking about chucking them in along side Morty and a drone for more distractions
Spawn are a solid choice. They just work very differently from 7th edition. In 7th. they were basically fast transports for some good HQ, but didn't kill anything themselves.
Now they aren't that fast or durable anymore, but can actually kill something. Usually there are a lot of things that are more scary than spawn so they can actually make it into combat.
Ah that’s interesting, good to know. How many would you say is a good number for a unit? If I have enough for 4 would it be better as 2 units of 2 or a unit of 4?
I won the ITC I played in yesterday with the list I posted above. The 6 PBCs with all plaguespitters were fantastic. The real MVP for the whole event was the gnarlmaw letting my PBCs shoot after falling back or running and shooting. Blightspawn put in work too. Beat nids, DAngels and IG, and BA. Yay death guard.
Tiberius501 wrote: What's the best number of Chaos Spawn to take in a DG army and best use for them too? I have enough points for 4 of them and was thinking about chucking them in along side Morty and a drone for more distractions
Spawn are a solid choice. They just work very differently from 7th edition. In 7th. they were basically fast transports for some good HQ, but didn't kill anything themselves.
Now they aren't that fast or durable anymore, but can actually kill something. Usually there are a lot of things that are more scary than spawn so they can actually make it into combat.
Ah that’s interesting, good to know. How many would you say is a good number for a unit? If I have enough for 4 would it be better as 2 units of 2 or a unit of 4?
Spawn are decent as a solo objective holder, or to keep up with an infantry unit. I also like to use them as Deepstrike blockers
If you go for multiples and actually try to kill things with them, 3 is an easy 99 pts. I try and fit that into most lists somehow.
Tiberius501 wrote: What's the best number of Chaos Spawn to take in a DG army and best use for them too? I have enough points for 4 of them and was thinking about chucking them in along side Morty and a drone for more distractions
Spawn are a solid choice. They just work very differently from 7th edition. In 7th. they were basically fast transports for some good HQ, but didn't kill anything themselves.
Now they aren't that fast or durable anymore, but can actually kill something. Usually there are a lot of things that are more scary than spawn so they can actually make it into combat.
Ah that’s interesting, good to know. How many would you say is a good number for a unit? If I have enough for 4 would it be better as 2 units of 2 or a unit of 4?
Spawn are decent as a solo objective holder, or to keep up with an infantry unit. I also like to use them as Deepstrike blockers
If you go for multiples and actually try to kill things with them, 3 is an easy 99 pts. I try and fit that into most lists somehow.
XShadow wrote: I won the ITC I played in yesterday with the list I posted above. The 6 PBCs with all plaguespitters were fantastic. The real MVP for the whole event was the gnarlmaw letting my PBCs shoot after falling back or running and shooting. Blightspawn put in work too. Beat nids, DAngels and IG, and BA. Yay death guard.
How do you work out where to put the Gnarlmaw? Do you deploy him in the center of the battlefield or in your deployment zone?
XShadow wrote: I won the ITC I played in yesterday with the list I posted above. The 6 PBCs with all plaguespitters were fantastic. The real MVP for the whole event was the gnarlmaw letting my PBCs shoot after falling back or running and shooting. Blightspawn put in work too. Beat nids, DAngels and IG, and BA. Yay death guard.
How do you work out where to put the Gnarlmaw? Do you deploy him in the center of the battlefield or in your deployment zone?
Placing them near objectives is always fun to do. Anyone trying to secure the objective will have to risk mortal wounds in return.
XShadow wrote: I won the ITC I played in yesterday with the list I posted above. The 6 PBCs with all plaguespitters were fantastic. The real MVP for the whole event was the gnarlmaw letting my PBCs shoot after falling back or running and shooting. Blightspawn put in work too. Beat nids, DAngels and IG, and BA. Yay death guard.
How do you work out where to put the Gnarlmaw? Do you deploy him in the center of the battlefield or in your deployment zone?
My first game vs Nids was in my deployment and the last 2 games was placed in the middle. My nurglings helped zone out scouts for the tree.
I'm angrily reporting that yes PBC spam works. Managed to win a local weekend tournament and resented my own army for doing so well. Which, now that I type it out, seems weirdly appropriate for DG.
The only real difference from my army and the builds everyone else is posting is the addition of a couple defilers to make up for the fact I only have three PBC. They were fine. Gave me a little more variety, not as tough but with nothing to target but multiwound models I found the regeneration actually helped more than normal. So that was nice. More PBCs might've been better, particularly against anything that stacked - to hit, but I wasn't upset by their performance.
I liked it better when I thought our best build was zombie hordes. Zombie hordes felt more DG than this.
so how do death gaurd and 1k sons synergize together? I've got some death guard and I've always wanted to try 1k sons. I'm thinking the armies not the primarchs mind you
Love the combo making my pbc able to flame after they fall back but.
1) Most important they take a detachment slot and it's really bad.
I can't seem to make a list valid either with Mortarion or Rotigus. Or even hordish or pbc spamm with 3 detachment using one for the fortification.
2) if you decide to build around the tree you need to play either more than 2-3 or use slimex or get the tree somehow deep striked or summoned if possible and I don't think you can?
And yes I play fun lists as well but I don't want to make a list with 4 detachments for no reason! None sane enough allow 4 detachments. So trees got the removed while I really like it.
(Maybe fort can be placed inside other detachments could be nice!)
Plaguebcrawlers with flamers are just superb. 2-6 are making good job vs anything while my arch contaminator demonp buffs them along side with a poxbringer.
The cultist slanesh bomb is extreme.remember to play safe and try to keep one cultist alive to reanimate them!
40* is a must sorc and chaos Lord also helps.
As for blight termies I believe 9 are the best list out there atm. Oblis Mortarion around same points but not as good! Morty needs bodyguards sorc bla bla he rocks and absorb tons of fire but....
Oblis really good but the fact you need to have 2*3 instead of one group gives versatile options but also prohibits good buffing.
Blight Lord's not only are infantry meaning able to get full buffed from every detachment but also their plasma shots overcharged precient 18" rapid and survive eventually pays off.
You will not have the Morty punch or the pbc mobility but you LL find your army extremely hard to loose the mid table. It's gets down to playstyle preff but personally I like the idea of an undead army . Seems more fluffy in my head!! Enjoy
Love the combo making my pbc able to flame after they fall back but.
1) Most important they take a detachment slot and it's really bad.
I can't seem to make a list valid either with Mortarion or Rotigus. Or even hordish or pbc spamm with 3 detachment using one for the fortification.
2) if you decide to build around the tree you need to play either more than 2-3 or use slimex or get the tree somehow deep striked or summoned if possible and I don't think you can?
And yes I play fun lists as well but I don't want to make a list with 4 detachments for no reason! None sane enough allow 4 detachments. So trees got the removed while I really like it.
(Maybe fort can be placed inside other detachments could be nice!)
Plaguebcrawlers with flamers are just superb. 2-6 are making good job vs anything while my arch contaminator demonp buffs them along side with a poxbringer.
The cultist slanesh bomb is extreme.remember to play safe and try to keep one cultist alive to reanimate them!
40* is a must sorc and chaos Lord also helps.
As for blight termies I believe 9 are the best list out there atm. Oblis Mortarion around same points but not as good! Morty needs bodyguards sorc bla bla he rocks and absorb tons of fire but....
Oblis really good but the fact you need to have 2*3 instead of one group gives versatile options but also prohibits good buffing.
Blight Lord's not only are infantry meaning able to get full buffed from every detachment but also their plasma shots overcharged precient 18" rapid and survive eventually pays off.
You will not have the Morty punch or the pbc mobility but you LL find your army extremely hard to loose the mid table. It's gets down to playstyle preff but personally I like the idea of an undead army . Seems more fluffy in my head!! Enjoy
What does your list look like running 9 blight lords PBCS AND mort??!
Since so many ask and I get also pm s. I d take the winning heat list with berserkers and Mortarion and obliterators and sub those oblis for termies it should be 195 +195 min points and you need 58/ termie so around 7! And you got a Morty termies lists!
Wow, Mortarion obliterates Imperium armies if I'm reading Death to The False Emperor right. It says you get an additional Attack each time you roll a 6+ to hit. Reaping Scythe says you make 3 hit rolls per Attack, so does that mean every roll of a 6+ gives him 3 additional hit rolls with the Reaping Scythe attack? If so, his average of 3 rolls of 6+ gives him 9 extra hit rolls!
I've been doing this wrong for ages if that's the case
Tiberius501 wrote: Wow, Mortarion obliterates Imperium armies if I'm reading Death to The False Emperor right. It says you get an additional Attack each time you roll a 6+ to hit. Reaping Scythe says you make 3 hit rolls per Attack, so does that mean every roll of a 6+ gives him 3 additional hit rolls with the Reaping Scythe attack? If so, his average of 3 rolls of 6+ gives him 9 extra hit rolls!
I've been doing this wrong for ages if that's the case
Tiberius501 wrote: Wow, Mortarion obliterates Imperium armies if I'm reading Death to The False Emperor right. It says you get an additional Attack each time you roll a 6+ to hit. Reaping Scythe says you make 3 hit rolls per Attack, so does that mean every roll of a 6+ gives him 3 additional hit rolls with the Reaping Scythe attack? If so, his average of 3 rolls of 6+ gives him 9 extra hit rolls!
I've been doing this wrong for ages if that's the case
What kind of Daemon detachments is everyone taking?
I'm working on a list that uses a PB bomb and a Poxbringer to trundle along behind my Demon Engines. I wanted to take Epidemus, but I feel 100 points for something that may have minimal impact on the battle isn't worth it... namely if you face elite lists that have very few units.
Zid wrote: What kind of Daemon detachments is everyone taking?
I'm working on a list that uses a PB bomb and a Poxbringer to trundle along behind my Demon Engines. I wanted to take Epidemus, but I feel 100 points for something that may have minimal impact on the battle isn't worth it... namely if you face elite lists that have very few units.
I'm interested in others experiences
I've been taking just a cheap battalion of a herald slaanesh on steed + The Changeling with either 10 brim x3. It's only 284 pts and allows me screen and hold objectives. The changeling keeps the brim a little more durable while the herald of slaanesh can either hold back objectives or play forward. Having a character that can move quick helps a ton, especially being able to cast the spell that puts -1 to hit on enemies. In ITC the crucible of champions mission is crucial so having a quick cheap hero helps a lot.
Daemonic Ritual Question: Am I misunderstanding this power? Could you sit back with 2 HQ and 3 Elite Characters and just pump out plaguebearers all game?
Has anyone tried this? Am I reading this ability correctly?
Jidmah wrote: If you paid the reinforcement points and you don't get shot of the board before you do, sure, you can do that.
pardon, but I am new to 8th. What does it mena to pay the reinforcement points?
To expand, if you wanted to summon 500 points of plaguebearers, you would only be able to field 1500 points worth of models at the start of the game. Then as you summon in models, the cost of models summoned in reduce your pool of extra points. Summoning is situational for matched play.
Zid wrote: What kind of Daemon detachments is everyone taking?
I'm working on a list that uses a PB bomb and a Poxbringer to trundle along behind my Demon Engines. I wanted to take Epidemus, but I feel 100 points for something that may have minimal impact on the battle isn't worth it... namely if you face elite lists that have very few units.
I'm interested in others experiences
Plan to try a Poxbringer, Scrivener, 30 Plaguebearers and 2x3 Nurglings. Haven't had a chance to test it yet.
Zid wrote: What kind of Daemon detachments is everyone taking?
I'm working on a list that uses a PB bomb and a Poxbringer to trundle along behind my Demon Engines. I wanted to take Epidemus, but I feel 100 points for something that may have minimal impact on the battle isn't worth it... namely if you face elite lists that have very few units.
I'm interested in others experiences
Plan to try a Poxbringer, Scrivener, 30 Plaguebearers and 2x3 Nurglings. Haven't had a chance to test it yet.
I've run that exact setup and I've had some mixed results. On paper the PBs work but I've found unless you're running at least two big blocks it is not worth it and even then you begin committing so many resources to the demon detachment that it limits your DG choices.
Indeed, in terms of supporting DG what are the plaguebearers bringing that something like poxwalkers can't provide? Good support choices I've found for my DG are the poxbringer, nurglings, and drones. An outrider with those 3 choices have been my got to when I want to add demons.
Zid wrote: What kind of Daemon detachments is everyone taking?
I'm working on a list that uses a PB bomb and a Poxbringer to trundle along behind my Demon Engines. I wanted to take Epidemus, but I feel 100 points for something that may have minimal impact on the battle isn't worth it... namely if you face elite lists that have very few units.
I'm interested in others experiences
The Daemons Strategems are too good to pass up.
I go with 3x3 Nurglings, a Herald, Flying Prince, and a unit or 2 of Plague drones to escort them up the field.
Then, those daemons can support my Oblits and other Daemon engines at the same time.
If you can hide Epidemius he's very strong. Since the Codex he's even good in melee.
He really shines when combined with Oblits or anything Nurgle Daemon that can shoot from turn 1 to bring up the tally fast. Once you reach +1 S or +1T it gets really sick .
Detachment-wize it's very easy to fill a batallion (or even a brigade) with Nurglings and cheap heralds so that's what I'll do.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: If you can hide Epidemius he's very strong. Since the Codex he's even good in melee.
He really shines when combined with Oblits or anything Nurgle Daemon that can shoot from turn 1 to bring up the tally fast. Once you reach +1 S or +1T it gets really sick .
Detachment-wize it's very easy to fill a batallion (or even a brigade) with Nurglings and cheap heralds so that's what I'll do.
This is great feedback, but to me, it seems if your going to detach to DG, then it should be Nurgle Demon army primarily with a detachment of DG/CSM when using Epidemus. His buffs are amazing, but it seems some game they are extremely situational. I could see a Nurgle Obliterator list with tons of trees, epidemus, and some PBC's being a force to reckon with
I love gnarlmaw trees and I have like 3-4 lists with epidemius and demons poxbringer etc. The real issue that made me think differently is detachments. Fortifications for 1-3 trees is bad. And since I have not seen any serious game without detachment rules usually max 3 I just don't take them. If you play pure demons maybe or if you design brigade but in a dg competitive lit beyond spearhead spamm for pcb I don't take them. Sad but true
I'm still thinking of running a GUO with the bell and using it to resurrect allied Nurgle Obliterators or even a Myphitic Blight-hauler (if I run them in 3's). That seems a little too good though, and will probably be nerfed. If it doesn't get nerfed, could combo nicely with the tree and oblits thing.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: If you can hide Epidemius he's very strong. Since the Codex he's even good in melee.
He really shines when combined with Oblits or anything Nurgle Daemon that can shoot from turn 1 to bring up the tally fast. Once you reach +1 S or +1T it gets really sick .
Detachment-wize it's very easy to fill a batallion (or even a brigade) with Nurglings and cheap heralds so that's what I'll do.
This is great feedback, but to me, it seems if your going to detach to DG, then it should be Nurgle Demon army primarily with a detachment of DG/CSM when using Epidemus. His buffs are amazing, but it seems some game they are extremely situational. I could see a Nurgle Obliterator list with tons of trees, epidemus, and some PBC's being a force to reckon with
Yeah. I think, I would only use Epidemius, when everything in my army is Nurgle Daemon. That leaves DG troop choices out. For HQ it also means either prince or palanquin lord/ sorcerer. That's if you want to do a pure DG detachment. Since the DG daemon engines don't use inexorable advance anyway you could also take a CHAOS detachment where you mix what you like (and could take CSM Nurgle daemons as well).
Btw. possessed are a very interesting unit in that setting, as they will be the only unit to profit from all auras, warlord traits and psychic powers, be they Daemon or DG or CSM.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: If you can hide Epidemius he's very strong. Since the Codex he's even good in melee.
He really shines when combined with Oblits or anything Nurgle Daemon that can shoot from turn 1 to bring up the tally fast. Once you reach +1 S or +1T it gets really sick .
Detachment-wize it's very easy to fill a batallion (or even a brigade) with Nurglings and cheap heralds so that's what I'll do.
This is great feedback, but to me, it seems if your going to detach to DG, then it should be Nurgle Demon army primarily with a detachment of DG/CSM when using Epidemus. His buffs are amazing, but it seems some game they are extremely situational. I could see a Nurgle Obliterator list with tons of trees, epidemus, and some PBC's being a force to reckon with
Yeah. I think, I would only use Epidemius, when everything in my army is Nurgle Daemon. That leaves DG troop choices out. For HQ it also means either prince or palanquin lord/ sorcerer. That's if you want to do a pure DG detachment. Since the DG daemon engines don't use inexorable advance anyway you could also take a CHAOS detachment where you mix what you like (and could take CSM Nurgle daemons as well).
Btw. possessed are a very interesting unit in that setting, as they will be the only unit to profit from all auras, warlord traits and psychic powers, be they Daemon or DG or CSM.
Very interesting... Can possessed take rhinos? My only issue with Possessed is its 110 points for 5 models. Yes, they have 2 wounds each, but they are only T4, don't have DR, and if they can't take a rhino, maybe the chaos FW drop pod? You'd need at least 10-15 to make it worthwhile and get them where they need to go. if they had T5 or DR I'd say they'd be a shoe in. A 3+/5++ isn't much toughness for a nurgle unit.
But yes, like others said, using a small Outrider or the heavy support detachment would be great; have a Nurgle Demon army with DG detachment using all demon engines and demon princes. I still, however, would use Typhus and Poxwalkers myself... I mean even without Epidemus' buffs, Typhus is a beast and Poxwalkers are one of the best troops in the game, especially facing horde armies.
So what I believe is the strongest atm. I have already tested various parts but never like this . Might need minor tweaks depending on tour participation but more or less that's it. Ofc phych decided /battle. Enjoy
You can remove the tree and get a death guard spearhead for +1 cp.
Or
You can remove 1plague burst crawler and max out cultists troops maybe a poxbringer more etc.
Or
You can even remove the demon prince and add more nurglins and the spearhead and the poxbringer bla bla for more hordish flavor maybe max out blightlord as well all depending where you plan to play this list!.
Or even sub blightlords with a Mortarion for more casual games. Same points need some tweaking. Remove the tree remvoe one pcb add deathsroud ND morty
Key features.
1) obj placement. Most vital to make a proper obj placement don't care where as long a you can take over it 3+ obj.
2) try to at least save one cultist from your cultist bomb using los or cp or whatever. Bringing 30+ cultist again in table ensures your enemy will waste two rounds or be drowned on dice. Don't forget stratagems for double shooting and +1 wound +1 all phych buffs.
3) demon prince tree and phc with flamers can move charge fall back etc and still flame anything easily. So in front please that's their job.
4) typhus and pox are your backup. Any cultist dead must provide numbers to poxwalkers try to have at least more than 40 to hold with extremely durable t5-6 fearless troops as a last effort.
5) you might not table enemies but you can never be tabled as well. Even with bad dice you just can't loose all of them. It's not possible. Even if you have to move your sorc with warptime around to survive. Alpha legion got -1 to get hit so all your cultist can escape. Use stratagem to get even a 10 man back to full str.
Pox wlkers are fearless you can even use the stratagem as typhus kill units to replenish troops. And blightlords not only they are immune to range attacks they can get buffed and kill almost anything in melee. They get all buffs from all casters.
Enjoy
Tip : the !ist needs extensive play to master it's perks and tricks. You need average 10 games to settle deeply properly infiltration properly and learn how to move abjust vs different enemies. Practice practice practice
Zid wrote: Very interesting... Can possessed take rhinos? My only issue with Possessed is its 110 points for 5 models. Yes, they have 2 wounds each, but they are only T4, don't have DR, and if they can't take a rhino, maybe the chaos FW drop pod? You'd need at least 10-15 to make it worthwhile and get them where they need to go. if they had T5 or DR I'd say they'd be a shoe in. A 3+/5++ isn't much toughness for a nurgle unit.
They can take both the DG rhino and the landraider. They are basic marines in all regards.
As for possible buffs, you can buff them with Putrescent Vitality to make them S6/T5 and add a pox bringer for S7 and locus of nurgle. If you buff them with Virulent Blessing and Blades of Putrefaction, you can have them deal 2 damage on a wound roll of 4+ and 3 on a roll of 5+, add VotLW if you want to flip a vehicle with them.
My biggest problem with them is that they have d3 attacks, rolled once for the unit. Even if you keep a CP ready to re-roll that dice, you might end up with one attack each, hitting on 3s. For the amount of points you are investing, one attack per model is definitely not good enough.
It's also important to note that a plague marine with bubotic axe and plague knife is the same points as a possessed, for the same strength, AP, guaranteed 2 attacks but plague weapons, T5 and DR instead of the additional wound and 2" more movement.
So instead of spending points on buffing posessed with tree and pox bringer (120 pts), you could just upgrade a unit of plague marines with special weapons and have them perform the grenade combo.
Zid wrote: Very interesting... Can possessed take rhinos? My only issue with Possessed is its 110 points for 5 models. Yes, they have 2 wounds each, but they are only T4, don't have DR, and if they can't take a rhino, maybe the chaos FW drop pod? You'd need at least 10-15 to make it worthwhile and get them where they need to go. if they had T5 or DR I'd say they'd be a shoe in. A 3+/5++ isn't much toughness for a nurgle unit.
They can take both the DG rhino and the landraider. They are basic marines in all regards.
As for possible buffs, you can buff them with Putrescent Vitality to make them S6/T5 and add a pox bringer for S7 and locus of nurgle. If you buff them with Virulent Blessing and Blades of Putrefaction, you can have them deal 2 damage on a wound roll of 4+ and 3 on a roll of 5+, add VotLW if you want to flip a vehicle with them.
My biggest problem with them is that they have d3 attacks, rolled once for the unit. Even if you keep a CP ready to re-roll that dice, you might end up with one attack each, hitting on 3s. For the amount of points you are investing, one attack per model is definitely not good enough.
It's also important to note that a plague marine with bubotic axe and plague knife is the same points as a possessed, for the same strength, AP, guaranteed 2 attacks but plague weapons, T5 and DR instead of the additional wound and 2" more movement.
So instead of spending points on buffing posessed with tree and pox bringer (120 pts), you could just upgrade a unit of plague marines with special weapons and have them perform the grenade combo.
I agree with everything you say, the D3 attacks hurt, but it's always nice to have options, right? And I think your post also shows that possessed are on par with the marines in a usual DG-list, depending on playstyle the 2" movement could even tip it in the favor of possessed. Also, I merely was suggesting to take a look at them if someone plays a list mixed with Daemons/ Epidemius anyway - and that's where they can start to outshine the marines imo.
Zid wrote: Very interesting... Can possessed take rhinos? My only issue with Possessed is its 110 points for 5 models. Yes, they have 2 wounds each, but they are only T4, don't have DR, and if they can't take a rhino, maybe the chaos FW drop pod? You'd need at least 10-15 to make it worthwhile and get them where they need to go. if they had T5 or DR I'd say they'd be a shoe in. A 3+/5++ isn't much toughness for a nurgle unit.
They can take both the DG rhino and the landraider. They are basic marines in all regards.
As for possible buffs, you can buff them with Putrescent Vitality to make them S6/T5 and add a pox bringer for S7 and locus of nurgle. If you buff them with Virulent Blessing and Blades of Putrefaction, you can have them deal 2 damage on a wound roll of 4+ and 3 on a roll of 5+, add VotLW if you want to flip a vehicle with them.
My biggest problem with them is that they have d3 attacks, rolled once for the unit. Even if you keep a CP ready to re-roll that dice, you might end up with one attack each, hitting on 3s. For the amount of points you are investing, one attack per model is definitely not good enough.
It's also important to note that a plague marine with bubotic axe and plague knife is the same points as a possessed, for the same strength, AP, guaranteed 2 attacks but plague weapons, T5 and DR instead of the additional wound and 2" more movement.
So instead of spending points on buffing posessed with tree and pox bringer (120 pts), you could just upgrade a unit of plague marines with special weapons and have them perform the grenade combo.
I agree with everything you say, the D3 attacks hurt, but it's always nice to have options, right? And I think your post also shows that possessed are on par with the marines in a usual DG-list, depending on playstyle the 2" movement could even tip it in the favor of possessed. Also, I merely was suggesting to take a look at them if someone plays a list mixed with Daemons/ Epidemius anyway - and that's where they can start to outshine the marines imo.
All very valid arguments for them... would say testing them would be best. I love Epidemus, really like how strong he is now compared to older iterations
Fragmentize wrote: Is the Death Guard half of the Dark Imperium box a good way to start the army? (or is it not recommended due to limits on weapon upgrades etc?)
Or are there better alternatives?
I recently purchased a box of Easy To Build Plague Marines and had a blast painting them and made me want to build an army.
Suggestions greatly appreciated!
It’s a great place to start. The characters are all useful, Plague Marines are good (serg can be easily converted to be armed with a plasma gun if you want it), pox walkers are always good, Drone with the plague spitters is a great choice. All good stuff
Fragmentize wrote: Is the Death Guard half of the Dark Imperium box a good way to start the army? (or is it not recommended due to limits on weapon upgrades etc?)
Or are there better alternatives?
I recently purchased a box of Easy To Build Plague Marines and had a blast painting them and made me want to build an army.
Suggestions greatly appreciated!
I like using it, got two... But you might want to do some converting 5man squads of plaguemarines with 2xblightlaunchers combined with a Chaos lord warlord with helmet and archcontanimator, can do some serious damage. And people never fire enough at them to take them out, always 2-3dudes left standing.
And the blightdrones are good, and cheap compared to how much they cost when bought alone.
Poxwalkers are not good. (Now don't get me wrong, poxwalkers are great! but you must build your army around them to make them work. And that requires a lot of poxwalkers, and cultists) I have cut of most of the mutations, horns etc. and added weapons to 20of them, and are using them as cultists. They will also get a more "healthy looking fleshtone" to stand out more. (But nothing is stopping you from adding them to a expanding poxwalker unit if you feel like it later on.
I have also converted one each of the malignant plaguecaster and Noxious blightbringer into Foul Blightspawns. And those boys can be properly efficient!
Also, get nurglings and a Poxbringer. Those guys help the deathguard army so much! I regret not getting them sooner.
If he has the ETB marines, he already has a plasma sergeant
I started the army with 2x Dark Imperium, except for the lord of contagion, all of the models are playable even after starting to grow your collection. Just have the LoC count as chaos lord in terminator armor and power axe, and you're set.
When you combine the ETB marines with the ones from dark imperium you get one unit with 3 special weapons (2x plasma 1x blight launcher), if you add the marines box later (or another DI and ETB set) you'll end up with two well equipped squads.
When buying a second set of Dark Imperium Death Guard keep in mind that you'll rarely need any of the characters twice. You might pay less if you only get the marine squad, the drone and the pox walkers.
Jidmah wrote: If he has the ETB marines, he already has a plasma sergeant
I started the army with 2x Dark Imperium, except for the lord of contagion, all of the models are playable even after starting to grow your collection. Just have the LoC count as chaos lord in terminator armor and power axe, and you're set.
When you combine the ETB marines with the ones from dark imperium you get one unit with 3 special weapons (2x plasma 1x blight launcher), if you add the marines box later (or another DI and ETB set) you'll end up with two well equipped squads.
When buying a second set of Dark Imperium Death Guard keep in mind that you'll rarely need any of the characters twice. You might pay less if you only get the marine squad, the drone and the pox walkers.
Lord of Contagions suffer from lack of a ranged weapon option. if they bhad a combi bolter or something they'd be pretty solid picks.
Jidmah wrote: If he has the ETB marines, he already has a plasma sergeant
I started the army with 2x Dark Imperium, except for the lord of contagion, all of the models are playable even after starting to grow your collection. Just have the LoC count as chaos lord in terminator armor and power axe, and you're set.
When you combine the ETB marines with the ones from dark imperium you get one unit with 3 special weapons (2x plasma 1x blight launcher), if you add the marines box later (or another DI and ETB set) you'll end up with two well equipped squads.
When buying a second set of Dark Imperium Death Guard keep in mind that you'll rarely need any of the characters twice. You might pay less if you only get the marine squad, the drone and the pox walkers.
Lord of Contagions suffer from lack of a ranged weapon option. if they bhad a combi bolter or something they'd be pretty solid picks.
Lord of Contagions Nurgles gift is also really lackluster compared to Chaoslords reroll aura. I, to be honest don't even consider Lord of Contagion an option....
Jidmah wrote: If he has the ETB marines, he already has a plasma sergeant
I started the army with 2x Dark Imperium, except for the lord of contagion, all of the models are playable even after starting to grow your collection. Just have the LoC count as chaos lord in terminator armor and power axe, and you're set.
When you combine the ETB marines with the ones from dark imperium you get one unit with 3 special weapons (2x plasma 1x blight launcher), if you add the marines box later (or another DI and ETB set) you'll end up with two well equipped squads.
When buying a second set of Dark Imperium Death Guard keep in mind that you'll rarely need any of the characters twice. You might pay less if you only get the marine squad, the drone and the pox walkers.
Lord of Contagions suffer from lack of a ranged weapon option. if they bhad a combi bolter or something they'd be pretty solid picks.
Lord of Contagions Nurgles gift is also really lackluster compared to Chaoslords reroll aura. I, to be honest don't even consider Lord of Contagion an option....
Yeah the LOC's aura is definatly not as good. I can see some limited sues for it. eaither rushing it ahead with a melee strike force of termies, or back stopping a shooting line you don't want to be charged. could be a handy HQ to have if you're regularly fighting custodes.
So I have an army I'm really happy with (fluff, composition, all the models, etc), but I have a bit of an OCD issue haha. Everything has disgustingly resilient, except for my Spawn. They have so far been really good in the games I've used them in, but it's annoying me they don't have DR and I was wandering if anyone had any ideas on how to swap them to Plague Drones without changing the army. I can't seem to find a way to do it without taking out a few things to make room for more Daemons to fill a daemon detachment for the drones. Any suggestions?
This is my current army:
HQ - Daemon Prince w/ Wings
- Lord of Contagion
TROOP
- 7x Plague Marines w/ Blight Launchers
- 7x Plague Marines w/ Blight Launchers
- 16x Pox Walkers
ELITE
- 3x Deathshroud
FAST ATTACK
- Bloat-drone
- 3x Spawn
- 3x Spawn
HEAVY SUPPORT
- PBC - PBC LoW - Mortarion
You can summon the plague drones. Not the best tho as you have none of the characters that are ok with standing still.
Alternative is an auxiliary detachment for 1cp.
Captyn_Bob wrote: You can summon the plague drones. Not the best tho as you have none of the characters that are ok with standing still.
Alternative is an auxiliary detachment for 1cp.
Ah, that's actually a really good idea to put them in an Auxiliary Detachment, thanks for that. Not sure why I didn't consider it myself
BrianDavion wrote: Yeah the LOC's aura is definatly not as good. I can see some limited sues for it. eaither rushing it ahead with a melee strike force of termies, or back stopping a shooting line you don't want to be charged. could be a handy HQ to have if you're regularly fighting custodes.
The part about rushing him ahead is kind of difficult since he is really, really slow (4" and low advance rolls). The last time I played him, a wraithlord kept moving just outside of his charge range and blasted him with his guns for three (!) turns.
I really don't see myself ever using him again. A chaos lord can do everything he can do for less points and has a better aura and for a few more points than a LoC you could have a daemon prince or Typhus.
Quick question... Are Contemptors with dual chainclaws and soulburners any good in a DG army? I have about 440 points spare and I really need some anti armour in the list (only have the DP and Drones that can hurt T7+ really).
Has anyone used them? Am I better going with lascannon Helbrutes or Predators? I don't own any PBCs and don't play uber competitive, plus I'm not really fond of the models tbh so they're not really an option. I'm even tempted by a Battalion of Nurglings to get some Obliterators... Not sure what to do.
BrianDavion wrote: Yeah the LOC's aura is definatly not as good. I can see some limited sues for it. eaither rushing it ahead with a melee strike force of termies, or back stopping a shooting line you don't want to be charged. could be a handy HQ to have if you're regularly fighting custodes.
The part about rushing him ahead is kind of difficult since he is really, really slow (4" and low advance rolls). The last time I played him, a wraithlord kept moving just outside of his charge range and blasted him with his guns for three (!) turns.
I really don't see myself ever using him again. A chaos lord can do everything he can do for less points and has a better aura and for a few more points than a LoC you could have a daemon prince or Typhus.
ohh I agree definatly situational. I do think a back stop for a shooting line to dischourage a charge is proably the more useful trick with it. make charging your gun lines a little nastier, but even then, 1 mortal wound isn't that much to the kinda units you'd want to use that trick for, and you can't stack the Aura
BrianDavion wrote: Yeah the LOC's aura is definatly not as good. I can see some limited sues for it. eaither rushing it ahead with a melee strike force of termies, or back stopping a shooting line you don't want to be charged. could be a handy HQ to have if you're regularly fighting custodes.
The part about rushing him ahead is kind of difficult since he is really, really slow (4" and low advance rolls). The last time I played him, a wraithlord kept moving just outside of his charge range and blasted him with his guns for three (!) turns.
I really don't see myself ever using him again. A chaos lord can do everything he can do for less points and has a better aura and for a few more points than a LoC you could have a daemon prince or Typhus.
ohh I agree definatly situational. I do think a back stop for a shooting line to dischourage a charge is proably the more useful trick with it. make charging your gun lines a little nastier, but even then, 1 mortal wound isn't that much to the kinda units you'd want to use that trick for, and you can't stack the Aura
I've had a lot of luck with my LoC. I don't dispute that he's probably not the greatest option, but he's a pretty nice distraction unit, who's surprisingly tough and cheap enough that I don't feel like I'm wasting points. I tend to drop him on a flank, either the one Mortarion is rushing or the opposite. If he doesn't make it into combat, he herds the enemy away from him into more of my stuff, or the enemy waste bullets on him.
Btw, I've not seen the Plague Surgeon being used much and hear he's not worth his points, but has anyone found him useful at all? Maybe giving him the relic for +3" range on auras could also help. He's a sweet model also. If he's really not that great, perhaps this rumoured March rebalancing will change him a little
Tiberius501 wrote: Btw, I've not seen the Plague Surgeon being used much and hear he's not worth his points, but has anyone found him useful at all? Maybe giving him the relic for +3" range on auras could also help. He's a sweet model also. If he's really not that great, perhaps this rumoured March rebalancing will change him a little
Point for point hes not worth it. I think someone calculated it was like less than a 20% improvement on survival. 65 points can get you:
- Almost 1 Blightbringer (much more useful...)
- 10 more Poxwalkers
- Tallyman (much more useful for recouping CP, and his reroll ability is good too)
- 16 more cultists
Its just very hard to justify. He doesn't hit very hard, hes yet another Poxwalker support model, and using your Artefact for a 6" versus a 3" bubble isn't too great. If he was "Add 1 to all disgustingly resilient rolls for DG infantry" I'd almost say hes an auto include. But as is, I think hes too weak to justify him over other stuff
So I've decided to start Death Guard, right now I have the dark imperium box, and know no fear, as well as a quick build box of plague marines, giving me 2 Lord of Contagions,1 noxiss blightbringer 1 malignant plague caster, 2 squads of plague marines (aiming for 2 squads of 7 with the easy builds) 2 feotid bloat drones, and 30 plaguewalkers, in addition I have a squad of blightlord terminators. just wondering how I should expand this. I don't wanna run a particularly cultist heavy force. I like my heretic astartes to have heretic astartes in their ranks. proably start with a deamon prince or two should I invest in Rhinos for the Plague marines?
I started very similar to how you did. After the daemon prince, I have added the Tallyman for CP regeneration and the Foul Blightspawn for his flamer of doom to take down planes and tough models that want to get close. I also started using the LoC as Chaos Lord with Terminator armor and power axe to a great effect.
Plague marines don't need rhinos unless they are melee oriented. Just buff the unit with the plasma weapons with cloud of flies for the first few turns (try to get the CP back with Tallyman) and have the blight launcher unit in cover near an objective and cast Miasma of Pestilence on them if they are drawing too much attention. You also have at least four T5 3+/5+++ bolter marines they need to chew through before you actually lose something valuable.
What the starter set is lacking IMO is anti-tank. Therefore, instead of rhinos you should try to get PBC, helbrutes, a defiler or predators, with PBC being the most competitive option obviously. Or you buy Mortarion, he is anti-everything.
Jidmah wrote: I started very similar to how you did. After the daemon prince, I have added the Tallyman for CP regeneration and the Foul Blightspawn for his flamer of doom to take down planes and tough models that want to get close. I also started using the LoC as Chaos Lord with Terminator armor and power axe to a great effect.
Plague marines don't need rhinos unless they are melee oriented. Just buff the unit with the plasma weapons with cloud of flies for the first few turns (try to get the CP back with Tallyman) and have the blight launcher unit in cover near an objective and cast Miasma of Pestilence on them if they are drawing too much attention. You also have at least four T5 3+/5+++ bolter marines they need to chew through before you actually lose something valuable.
What the starter set is lacking IMO is anti-tank. Therefore, instead of rhinos you should try to get PBC, helbrutes, a defiler or predators, with PBC being the most competitive option obviously. Or you buy Mortarion, he is anti-everything.
yeah definatly leaning towards a PBC or two. and probly snag morty as a showpiece even if I never use him. he can hang out beside gulliman on my shelf
Tiberius501 wrote: So I have made the most satisfying army ever. 7 CP's, 14 units, 42 models, 7 Psychic Powers. All those 7's make me harder than a Slaanesh Daemon
I d use typhus you can cut some from marines
that way you could have poxwalkers and typhus building numbers at the back and become your super big obj last stand last effort solution.
I had my first DG game since the daemon book came out. Decided to drop my attachment to big scary models, and run what I originally thought would be a pretty cool list, of a bunch of plague marines.
I ran 4 units of 7 marines in a rhino. 2 blight launchers, 2 flails, and plasma on champ. Each rhino also had a foul blightspawn in it, and I had 2 malefic plagucasters as HQ. Heavy support was 3 PBC with flamers.
I faced eldar, and did pretty great. Using the PBC as an agressive blocker and harassment unit, instead of back field fire support was really awesome. They pulled tons of fire, and while are slower than a bloat drone, are much more resilient.
All of the PM did work, I really do love how good blight launchers are, and prefer them to plasma 100%. The real disgusting part of the list was having 4 foul blightspawn though. They were MVPs, I rolled exceptionally hot on turn 2, firing all 4 of them. 4-6 shots and S8 was the lowest I rolled. They tore things up.
The flails continued to be a hilariously fun CC weapon with wounds spilling over. Lots of hot dice with 2 flails and vilurent blessing had 7 banshees splattered all over the floor.
The game really made me respect the lowly rhino. I've been avoiding them since I ran rhino rush in 5th, the frustration of massed vehicle facing and arcs left such a bad taste in my mouth. I need to convert 4 more flails and 4 more blight launchers so I can stop proxying.
I'm considering swapping one of the casters for a chaos lord to get some re-rolls to hit, combined with arch contaminator he would be a decent little buff bank.
Quick question, can rhinos transport jump pack infantry units?
I don't see why they couldn't but I could be wrong.
gwarsh41 wrote: I had my first DG game since the daemon book came out. Decided to drop my attachment to big scary models, and run what I originally thought would be a pretty cool list, of a bunch of plague marines.
I ran 4 units of 7 marines in a rhino. 2 blight launchers, 2 flails, and plasma on champ. Each rhino also had a foul blightspawn in it, and I had 2 malefic plagucasters as HQ. Heavy support was 3 PBC with flamers.
I faced eldar, and did pretty great. Using the PBC as an agressive blocker and harassment unit, instead of back field fire support was really awesome. They pulled tons of fire, and while are slower than a bloat drone, are much more resilient.
All of the PM did work, I really do love how good blight launchers are, and prefer them to plasma 100%. The real disgusting part of the list was having 4 foul blightspawn though. They were MVPs, I rolled exceptionally hot on turn 2, firing all 4 of them. 4-6 shots and S8 was the lowest I rolled. They tore things up.
The flails continued to be a hilariously fun CC weapon with wounds spilling over. Lots of hot dice with 2 flails and vilurent blessing had 7 banshees splattered all over the floor.
The game really made me respect the lowly rhino. I've been avoiding them since I ran rhino rush in 5th, the frustration of massed vehicle facing and arcs left such a bad taste in my mouth. I need to convert 4 more flails and 4 more blight launchers so I can stop proxying.
I'm considering swapping one of the casters for a chaos lord to get some re-rolls to hit, combined with arch contaminator he would be a decent little buff bank.
Quick question, can rhinos transport jump pack infantry units?
I don't see why they couldn't but I could be wrong.
My DG Codex isn't handy, but I know in the Space Marines one Jump Pack units count as 2 instead of 1.
gwarsh41 wrote: I had my first DG game since the daemon book came out. Decided to drop my attachment to big scary models, and run what I originally thought would be a pretty cool list, of a bunch of plague marines.
I ran 4 units of 7 marines in a rhino. 2 blight launchers, 2 flails, and plasma on champ. Each rhino also had a foul blightspawn in it, and I had 2 malefic plagucasters as HQ. Heavy support was 3 PBC with flamers.
I faced eldar, and did pretty great. Using the PBC as an agressive blocker and harassment unit, instead of back field fire support was really awesome. They pulled tons of fire, and while are slower than a bloat drone, are much more resilient.
All of the PM did work, I really do love how good blight launchers are, and prefer them to plasma 100%. The real disgusting part of the list was having 4 foul blightspawn though. They were MVPs, I rolled exceptionally hot on turn 2, firing all 4 of them. 4-6 shots and S8 was the lowest I rolled. They tore things up.
The flails continued to be a hilariously fun CC weapon with wounds spilling over. Lots of hot dice with 2 flails and vilurent blessing had 7 banshees splattered all over the floor.
The game really made me respect the lowly rhino. I've been avoiding them since I ran rhino rush in 5th, the frustration of massed vehicle facing and arcs left such a bad taste in my mouth. I need to convert 4 more flails and 4 more blight launchers so I can stop proxying.
I'm considering swapping one of the casters for a chaos lord to get some re-rolls to hit, combined with arch contaminator he would be a decent little buff bank.
Quick question, can rhinos transport jump pack infantry units?
I don't see why they couldn't but I could be wrong.
My DG Codex isn't handy, but I know in the Space Marines one Jump Pack units count as 2 instead of 1.
DG don't have raptors so it's not listed, but per codex space marines and choas marines rhinos simply cannot transport jump pack troops
They can be a real issue when you rock them as you (and i do) about 4 with PM in.
I'm liking one of mine to be the blight-drive by that is 9 naked (eep!) plague marines with a Biologus Putrifier 12" +d6 if you need to then next turn jump out 8" and chuck 10d6 blight grenade s4 2dmg re-rollin 1's to wound mortal wound on a 6 death.
charge the rhinos into other stuff to mostly prevent them doing much back at you then do it all again now on foot.
Latro_ wrote: yea i'v (since 2005) run my DG army in rhinos.
They can be a real issue when you rock them as you (and i do) about 4 with PM in.
I'm liking one of mine to be the blight-drive by that is 9 naked (eep!) plague marines with a Biologus Putrifier 12" +d6 if you need to then next turn jump out 8" and chuck 10d6 blight grenade s4 2dmg re-rollin 1's to wound mortal wound on a 6 death.
charge the rhinos into other stuff to mostly prevent them doing much back at you then do it all again now on foot.
Get mortal wounds on 5's by using Blight Bombardment coupled with Veterans of the Long War. I'm actually wanting to give this idea a go and see what happens.
Oh yea i did that once against magnus (think i more or less killed him in one round of shooting!) but normally have to ration CPs and in general even without votlw you'll severely damage most units to effectivly make them not much of an issue.
Hey guys,
A couple of loadout questions if anyone can assist..
-Plagueburst Crawlers.
Both of mine have plague spitters on the sides, They are the only guns I can easily have. Are they a good option for it?
-Bloat drones, I have two.
Would one with plague spitters and one with a heavy blight launcher work.
Or should it be two with plague splitters?
(These are my only two options, as I have the DI drones.)
Danny76 wrote: Hey guys,
A couple of loadout questions if anyone can assist..
-Plagueburst Crawlers.
Both of mine have plague spitters on the sides, They are the only guns I can easily have. Are they a good option for it?
-Bloat drones, I have two.
Would one with plague spitters and one with a heavy blight launcher work.
Or should it be two with plague splitters?
(These are my only two options, as I have the DI drones.)
Thanks for any help you can give!
I think Bloat Drones are best with Plaguespitters. They're great at covering up DPs and killing infantry (Killed 8 Death Company in a lucky shot). I don't like the idea of having something very mobile standing still somewhere. Plus with Spitters you can advance and shoot, which gives you even more mobility
As for PBCs, both are great imo. Depends on what you're facing and how you like to play your army. I've had success both with Cannons and a Chaos Lord for re-rolls and with Spitter Crawlers moving up the board
Jidmah wrote: I started very similar to how you did. After the daemon prince, I have added the Tallyman for CP regeneration and the Foul Blightspawn for his flamer of doom to take down planes and tough models that want to get close. I also started using the LoC as Chaos Lord with Terminator armor and power axe to a great effect.
Plague marines don't need rhinos unless they are melee oriented. Just buff the unit with the plasma weapons with cloud of flies for the first few turns (try to get the CP back with Tallyman) and have the blight launcher unit in cover near an objective and cast Miasma of Pestilence on them if they are drawing too much attention. You also have at least four T5 3+/5+++ bolter marines they need to chew through before you actually lose something valuable.
What the starter set is lacking IMO is anti-tank. Therefore, instead of rhinos you should try to get PBC, helbrutes, a defiler or predators, with PBC being the most competitive option obviously. Or you buy Mortarion, he is anti-everything.
yeah definatly leaning towards a PBC or two. and probly snag morty as a showpiece even if I never use him. he can hang out beside gulliman on my shelf
To offer an alternative option, a helbrute with twin lascannon and missiles costs almost the same as a pbc, but instead of hitting on 5+, it always hits on 3+. Granted it's less survivable, it's way more reliable anti tank shooting.
Jidmah wrote: I started very similar to how you did. After the daemon prince, I have added the Tallyman for CP regeneration and the Foul Blightspawn for his flamer of doom to take down planes and tough models that want to get close. I also started using the LoC as Chaos Lord with Terminator armor and power axe to a great effect.
Plague marines don't need rhinos unless they are melee oriented. Just buff the unit with the plasma weapons with cloud of flies for the first few turns (try to get the CP back with Tallyman) and have the blight launcher unit in cover near an objective and cast Miasma of Pestilence on them if they are drawing too much attention. You also have at least four T5 3+/5+++ bolter marines they need to chew through before you actually lose something valuable.
What the starter set is lacking IMO is anti-tank. Therefore, instead of rhinos you should try to get PBC, helbrutes, a defiler or predators, with PBC being the most competitive option obviously. Or you buy Mortarion, he is anti-everything.
yeah definatly leaning towards a PBC or two. and probly snag morty as a showpiece even if I never use him. he can hang out beside gulliman on my shelf
To offer an alternative option, a helbrute with twin lascannon and missiles costs almost the same as a pbc, but instead of hitting on 5+, it always hits on 3+. Granted it's less survivable, it's way more reliable anti tank shooting.
I would always take a PBC over a Helbrute. The durability more than makes up for the decreased reliability of shooting. The Helbrute might get one round of shooting in (if the DG player goes first), but then it'll go down hard to return fire. The PBC can take hits and keep on going, and although it is very possible to kill one in a single turn, it will take an inordinate amount of fire to do so, which takes the heat off your other units. I do think it's still best to take 2-3 of them at least, though, for saturation and redundancy.
Now, Helbrutes can still be fun in less competitive games, but I personally think they are best with Alpha Legion for the -1 to be hit, as that keeps them around longer. DG ones can move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty though, so they aren't terrible, but there are better options for your points.
Jidmah wrote: I started very similar to how you did. After the daemon prince, I have added the Tallyman for CP regeneration and the Foul Blightspawn for his flamer of doom to take down planes and tough models that want to get close. I also started using the LoC as Chaos Lord with Terminator armor and power axe to a great effect.
Plague marines don't need rhinos unless they are melee oriented. Just buff the unit with the plasma weapons with cloud of flies for the first few turns (try to get the CP back with Tallyman) and have the blight launcher unit in cover near an objective and cast Miasma of Pestilence on them if they are drawing too much attention. You also have at least four T5 3+/5+++ bolter marines they need to chew through before you actually lose something valuable.
What the starter set is lacking IMO is anti-tank. Therefore, instead of rhinos you should try to get PBC, helbrutes, a defiler or predators, with PBC being the most competitive option obviously. Or you buy Mortarion, he is anti-everything.
yeah definatly leaning towards a PBC or two. and probly snag morty as a showpiece even if I never use him. he can hang out beside gulliman on my shelf
To offer an alternative option, a helbrute with twin lascannon and missiles costs almost the same as a pbc, but instead of hitting on 5+, it always hits on 3+. Granted it's less survivable, it's way more reliable anti tank shooting.
Thing is, being reliable doesn't matter if they only get to shoot once (or none at all)
I just played a casual 2000-point game today with my Death Guard, vs. my friend's Thousand Sons. The mission was The Scouring from the BRB. My list was the following:
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment:
HQ:
Typhus
Malignant Plaguecaster
Troops:
18 Poxwalkers
5 Plague Marines: 2x Blight Launcher
5 Plague Marines: 3x Plasmagun
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Heavy Support:
Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Vanguard Detachment:
HQ:
Daemon Prince: Wings, 2x Malefic Talon, The Suppurating Plate (Warlord Trait: Revoltingly Resilient)
Elites:
Foul Blightspawn
Noxious Blightbringer
5 Blightlord Terminators: 4x Combi-plasma, 4x Bubotic Axe, Flail of Corruption
Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment:
Lord of War:
Mortarion
Total 1998 points
My opponent's list was the following:
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment:
HQ:
Daemon Prince: Wings, Daemonic Axe, Helm of the Third Eye (Warlord Trait: High Magister)
Daemon Prince: Wings, Daemonic Axe
Troops:
3x 10 Rubric Marines: 1x Warpflamer, 1x Soulreaper Cannon, Warpflame Pistol in each squad
Fast Attack:
2x 3 Chaos Spawn
Dedicated Transport:
3 Chaos Rhino: 2x Combibolter on each
Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment:
Lord of War:
Magnus the Red
Total 1942 points (I think he added his points incorrectly as he was actually under points by quite a bit)
We wanted to put our two Daemon Primarchs against each other, and this was our chance. He went first and I failed to seize. He managed to wipe out my Blight Launcher PM squad in his first turn with psychic powers, as well as putting a few mortal wounds on several of my characters with Infernal Gateway. In my turn, I dropped in my Blightlords and killed one unit of Spawn as well as killing one Rhino, but that was about all I managed to do. On his second turn, his other Spawn charged and killed a bunch of my Poxwalkers. In addition during the turn, he managed to catch my Warlord Daemon Prince with Magnus and his warlord and kill him for an easy Slay the Warlord, but not before I interrupted combat and actually put a bunch of wounds on that warlord. He also killed my bloat drone with the shooting from one of his Rubric Marine units, causing the drone to explode and put a mortal wound on everyone nearby. On my turn, I had Typhus charge and kill the other spawn after softening them up with shooting from my other units. I also punked the other two Rhinos, one of which had his other Rubrics in it (they all made it out of the wreckage safely). My Blightlords killed a few Rubrics, but not many; ditto with the Crawler. My Blightspawn was one of the units that softened up the Rhinos, but he failed to kill it thanks to only managing a 4 on 2d6 for his weapon's strength (ugh). Not a lot else happened that turn. On my opponent's turn 3, he took out the Blightspawn with Magnus' powers, as well as killing more zombies and putting a couple of wounds on Typhus. Two of his Aspiring Sorcerers suffered Perils of the Warp and blew themselves up in this turn, killing a bunch of Rubrics. Even worse, when he charged the Crawler with his wounded non-warlord Prince, I got a lucky hit with one of the entropy cannons and he failed his save, taking 5 damage and killing that prince. The other prince got into combat with the crawler but only managed to do two wounds to it thanks to the invulnerable save and Disgustingly Resilient. Magnus helped finish off the zombies in combat. On my turn 3, I fell back with the crawler and charged Morty into Magnus. My other units shot up a bunch of the surviving Rubrics and I also put my Plaguecaster into combat with Magnus to hopefully be able to squish him this turn. That didn't happen as he made all but two of his saves against Morty and I only managed to roll a 1 and a 2 on the d6 damage for those. Yuck. At least Magnus had already taken a few wounds from other stuff, as this was enough to knock him down to his second tier. Magnus put a few wounds on Morty as well, knocking him down to his second tier as well. Turn 4 mostly involved the remaining Rubrics mostly failing to do much to my Plague Marines and his other Aspiring Sorcerer also managing to get Perils and blow himself to kingdom come. That was 3 out of 3 Aspiring Sorcerers lost to Perils of the Warp. My opponent was not happy. Magnus and Morty swung at each other again, taking a few wounds out of each other. In my turn, I cleaned up most of the rest of the Rubric Marines and Morty actually polished off Magnus, with only 3 wounds remaining himself. On turn 5, his Warlord charged into Morty to try to finish him, and when Morty made all his invulnerable saves (but somehow failed to kill that prince), we called the game, as my opponent had very few models left and I still had a full unit of Blightlords plus my Crawler and Blightbringer holding objectives, and Morty was most likely going to kill off his warlord in his next fight phase. The game was closer than it should have been considering my opponent was unknowingly short on points. My psykers struggled to get much done, actually having more success denying powers than actually casting them. I rolled pretty crappy for most of my tests, and many of the powers I did manage to cast ended up being denied by Magnus and his +2 psychic rolls.
My takeaways from the game:
Trying to beat Thousand Sons in the psychic phase is a no-go. Best to stay out of deny range if at all possible, because it's hard to cast powers if Magnus can deny them.
The Plagueburst Crawler was a bit hit-or-miss. It is extremely durable, but somewhat inaccurate, especially against -1 to hit targets (like Rhinos that pop smoke) or if it has to move at all. If I could have screened it and kept it out of combat, it would have done much better. I definitely think they would work better in multiples.
The Foul Blightspawn is good, but very swingy. Two of the times I fired his weapon, I rolled less than 5 for his weapon's strength, and the times I got good strength, I rolled low on number of hits. I don't think I would ever run more than one.
Plague Marines are underestimated I think. Their Toughness of 5 really hurts small arms (bolters need 5's to wound, for example), and their DR save can really frustrate opponents.
Poxwalkers really need to have a list built around them to work well. They really did not do anything in my game. I probably would have been better off with cultists or even more Plague Marines.
Rubric Marines are overcosted by a large margin. My opponent was trying too hard to make a bad unit work. Their weapons are nasty, but not worth the cost on a T4 3+ save body.
My friend does intend to try other Thousand Sons lists out, including one with a huge number of Tzaangors and another with a lot of Scarab Occult Terminators and Helbrutes.
What powers did you pick on your psykers?
The Malignant Plaguecaster is MVP in many of my games, but I can't see myself running him after I have Typhus.
Jidmah wrote: I started very similar to how you did. After the daemon prince, I have added the Tallyman for CP regeneration and the Foul Blightspawn for his flamer of doom to take down planes and tough models that want to get close. I also started using the LoC as Chaos Lord with Terminator armor and power axe to a great effect.
Plague marines don't need rhinos unless they are melee oriented. Just buff the unit with the plasma weapons with cloud of flies for the first few turns (try to get the CP back with Tallyman) and have the blight launcher unit in cover near an objective and cast Miasma of Pestilence on them if they are drawing too much attention. You also have at least four T5 3+/5+++ bolter marines they need to chew through before you actually lose something valuable.
What the starter set is lacking IMO is anti-tank. Therefore, instead of rhinos you should try to get PBC, helbrutes, a defiler or predators, with PBC being the most competitive option obviously. Or you buy Mortarion, he is anti-everything.
yeah definatly leaning towards a PBC or two. and probly snag morty as a showpiece even if I never use him. he can hang out beside gulliman on my shelf
To offer an alternative option, a helbrute with twin lascannon and missiles costs almost the same as a pbc, but instead of hitting on 5+, it always hits on 3+. Granted it's less survivable, it's way more reliable anti tank shooting.
Thing is, being reliable doesn't matter if they only get to shoot once (or none at all)
But if your anti tank guns miss every shot they're not doing you any more good either.
I do see your point though, and you're right, that 5+ to hit is just so frustrating and your opponent might ignore it banking on you missing. Another advantage of the helbrute is lascannon + lash means it can be used to counter charge if you're up against a melee army, or move forward and be a threat to put on pressure. A pbc can be negated by melee.
Lastly the pbc is basically done for at half wounds, or if the opponent has one of the many -1 to hit armies, it can be completely ignored because it's now hitting on 6+. While the helbrute doesn't have a wound track. So it's easy to get a pbc shooting at 6+, the worst a helbrute ever gets is 4+.
While you're completely correct that a pbc will soak all the damage, helbrutes are so versatile. I'm totally down for pbc with the flamers, but for anti tank it seems sketchy. I'd rather shoot once and hit than shoot twice and miss.
I usually field two PBCs with Entropy Cannons and a babysitter Lord. Re-rolling 1s helps a lot. Hitting Alaitoc/Alpha Legion/Raven Guard/Whatever on 5s is a huge pain in the ass, but I still have the rest of the army to help.
Also, if your opponent manages to cripple your Crawlers, means your Hellbrutes would have already died a while ago
What powers did you pick on your psykers?
The Malignant Plaguecaster is MVP in many of my games, but I can't see myself running him after I have Typhus.
Typhus had Putrescent Vitality and Blades of Putrefaction, intending to buff the Poxwalkers (never did get the powers off).
The Prince had Gift of Contagion, but again, he didn't end up getting it off and he died early.
The Malignant Plaguecaster had Plague Wind and Curse of the Leper. He mostly ended up using Smite instead, doing a couple of wounds to Magnus and almost dying to Perils (saved his last wound with DR, thank Nurgle!).
Morty had Miasma of Pestilence, Blades of Putrefaction and Curse of the Leper. Three out of four times trying to cast Miasma, he either failed to cast it or it got denied.
I decided to go heavy on psykers so I could try out a bunch of the DG powers, but my rolls were pretty much crap and a lot of what I did succeed with just got denied.
Latro_ wrote: yea i'v (since 2005) run my DG army in rhinos.
They can be a real issue when you rock them as you (and i do) about 4 with PM in.
I'm liking one of mine to be the blight-drive by that is 9 naked (eep!) plague marines with a Biologus Putrifier 12" +d6 if you need to then next turn jump out 8" and chuck 10d6 blight grenade s4 2dmg re-rollin 1's to wound mortal wound on a 6 death.
charge the rhinos into other stuff to mostly prevent them doing much back at you then do it all again now on foot.
Get mortal wounds on 5's by using Blight Bombardment coupled with Veterans of the Long War. I'm actually wanting to give this idea a go and see what happens.
I tried a very similar setup in my last game
9 Plague Marines and a Biologus Putrifier in a rhino, I made sure they were in range of my DP warlord (Arch-Contaminator).
10D6 shots, S4 D2, rerolling all wounds causing MW on a 5+ in addition to damage. They deleted a Land Raider in one volley (good rolling on my part admittedly) - It was glorious
Are blightlords with melee viable at all? I'm thoughtful to the idea that using skimpy blights with just combibolts, axes and the one off flail could be decnet - it clocks in under a bloodletter horde and takes a hella lot less CP. Damage for damage the letters are more explosive but the blights get to fire out with rapid fire combis before getting shoot at - and may be able to hit the initial charge(?) - also reasonably (?) resilient at 5T 4++ 2+ and a 5+++. Running them naked the losses aren't crushing when a model is lost.
I am keen on the idea of bringing a flail and trying to diabolic strength the model to get an extra d3 hit rolls along with potentially VOTLW to up the damage. I'm thinking of using htem as a front runner unit to draw fire and drop miasma on them to help with the small arm volume fire where they are quite suceptible. There are still a few units (psyckers/dark reaps) that will fry them - but using them as a damage sink and being able to threaten in close range seems tempting. Are they worth? Are they worth a damn in melee? I would probably run them with TSons warptime to help them close - I understand getting 2 psychic abilities off is lackluster and unlikely but putting them on ahriman with the increase TSons range makes it plausible.
I've played a few times with my DG in the past weeks and have to say man they are resilient. Arch-contaminator DP and PBC, bloat-drone wrecking ball is awesome.
Yesterday my friend fielded my 1k DG list against my BA list and my BA got beaten badly. I managed to charge my Slamguinius T1 at the DP, resulting in a single wound and took 2 mortal wounds from the suppurating plate. DP just murdered the captain Slam on returning blows. Next up my quickening and unleash rage powered Mephiston charged the DP, but didn't manage to kill it. DP put Mephy to 2 wounds and killed it on it's own turn. DP actually died eventually to predator tank fire, but until then it had denied Mephy's wings of sanguinius on T1, killed both my HQ's.
PM's and their T5 are amazing and hard to shift from an objective. Few games ago I shot with my stormraven 100 bolter/assault cannon/HB shots in two turns at a 7man squad killing roughly 2 plague marines from open ground.
We are changing our point limit from 2k games to 1500/1000 points to play faster and now I'm trying out some new builds.
List I created for my friend against me:
DP of Nurgle, wings, suppurating plate, talons, arch-contaminator
Malignant plaguecaster
poxwalkers got lifted from an objective by a DC squad, but other units were really solid. Poxes were there only for backfield objective holding and deny deepstrike, maybe cultists are better for this. shooty PM's in a rhino.. atleast they had protection if my friend hadn't seized the initiative from my BA.
Anyone use a forgeworld sicaran battle tank? I'm thinking of adding one to my DG army instead of a predator.
Secondly, I've not added any chaos demons, last I saw it was up in the air on if herald buffs apply to DG units, where did that settle and are people finding it effective?
Here's a fast tactical report from a last nights game. I played BA, but both are my armies. This has been shared on BA thread, but putting it here if someone's interested.
Mission: front-line warfare, dawn of war deployment, 1k lists
DG list
Nurgle DP with wings, suppurating plate, miasma of pestilence, malefic talons, arch-contaminator
Malignant plaguecaster, putrescent vitality, curse of leper
DC uses the forlon fury towards the bloat-drone. Both inferno pistols fail, 1 miss, 1 fail to wound, DC boltguns kill some poxwalkers.
Pic: DC aiming their inferno pistols..
twin AC kills plague marines, Devs do some damage on a bloat-drone dropping it to 5 wounds. Twin LC razor hurts the chaos rhino some.
DC charge the DP and the plague marines.. swords at DP sore 1 wound after DR, chainswords at plague marines. DP kills the DC in return.
Pic: End of BA T1.
DG turn
bloat-drone, PBC, DP move forward, DP on a building. DP smites 6 MW on scout squad killing it. Plaguespitters burn two more scouts from the 2nd squad in the building. Mortar and slugger kills two devs.
Pic: End of DG T1.
TURN 2
Mephy and tacticals disembark and close on bloat-drone, Capt slam drops 10" away from DP, Assback moves forward. DP denies the wings of sanguinius. Smite finishes off the plague marines next to DP.
Only 1 damage from LC at the bloat-drone and it's negated by DR. Tacticals manage to do total of 1 damage with melta shots, bloat-drone at 4 wounds. Scout boltguns do 1 damage to PBC.. whooo. Twin AC wants to kill the poxwalkers and drop them to 5 models..
Pic: End of BA movement T2.
Capt Slam DoA and Mephy charge the DP, Capt Slam kills the DP, but gets 2 MW from the suppurating plate.
Pic: End of BA T2.
In the death guard's turn; Malignant plaguecaster and plague marines disembark from the rhino and close on BAHQ's.
PBC finishes the devs with mortar and burn the scouts leaving only the sergeant alive. Bloat-drone burn the whole tactical squad in one volley.
Smite damaged the captain in the psychic phase and the disembarked plague marines finish the captain off with rapid firing plasma and blight launcher. Poxwalkers charge the assback losing 1 model from overwatch.
Pic: End of DG T2.
Situation after two turns:
BA force
Mephy
1 scout sergeant
2 razorbacks
DG has lost 1 PM squad and the DP
TURN 3
Plague marines DR'd all smite damage and Mephy fails quickening. Mephy multi-charged plague marines and the Malignant plaguecaster making just enough wounds to kill the DGHQ.
Twin LC razor misses both shots. Assback moves away from combat.
Plague marines disengage from combat into ruins and bloat-drone burns the last scout from the ruins, PBC moves and burns Mephys eyebrow and charges for two damage! Mephy at 1 wound. Mephy gets only a single wound through. My dice rolling is terrible, PBC needs 6's to hit, I need 2's to hit & wound, but still PBC outperforms Mephy in a duel!
TURN 4
Mephy moves and gets wings finally to jump behind assback who moved on the DG base objective.
DG turn bloat-drone moves within 9" of the assback and still holding the central objective. PBC and bloat-drone try to burn the assback and with the fire support from the plague marines assback drops down to 3 wounds. Last 4 poxwalkers try to deny assbacks firing onces more by charging.. but overwatch kills 3 and it's assback's time to show how fighting is done with vehicles and kills the last poxwalker in the fight phase.
TURN 5
Mephy decides it's his turn for heroism and targets the plague marine squad. Mephy fails quickening, but gets wings and lands infront of the plague marines.
Mephy eats two plasma and one blight launcher hits from overwatch, but his a man on a mission makes the saves. In the fight phase BA uses the last CP for red rampage and kills 4/5 of the plague marine squad.
Twin LC miss both shots again and twin AC manages to do a single damage to the bloat-drone, which is at 3 now.
Plague marine champion succesfully tests morale and flees from the combat behind the building. Bloat-drone burns the Mephy into pile of dust. PBC burns and shoots it's slugger at the assback dropping it to 3 wounds.
The score in the end of T5:
DG +1 first blood
+4 two central objectives
+1 slay the warlord
Total: 6 VP
BA +1 slay the warlord
+1 own deployment zone objective
+4 opponent deployment zone objective
+1 linebreaker
Total: 7 VP
T6
Assback doesn't wound the bloat-drone. Hitting lascannon shot stops into invulnerable save of the bloat-drone.
DG fire plaguespitters, super-charged rapid fire plasma and the slugger at the assback dropping it to 1 wound! Mortar bombs 1 wound from the twin LC razor.
The score is still 1 VP more for the BA!
T7
Assback fails to hit the bloat-drone with 12 BS 5+ shots.. Twin LC miss too with BS 4+..
DG: Bloat-drone fails to wound the assback, rhino fails to wound, plague marine champion with rapid firing super-charged plasma explodes and hits, but fails to wound on a roll of 2. Only the PBC left to shoot. plaguespitters fail to wound and the assback makes three 3+ saves thanks to cover. Slugger same thing.. Assback is safe! Mortar bombs 4 hits on the LC razor! Dropping it to 1 wound as well!
Phew!
End of the game.
BA: 7 DG: 6 - Whooo!
In the end I had only two razorbacks at 1 wound each alive.
DG had rhino at 5 wounds, bloat-drone at 3 wounds and the PBC at 9.
The first two turns were so brutal. DG vehicles are super durable, 3+ Sv, 5+ inv save, and disgustinly resilient rolls with T7 or T8, man...
Has anyone running poxwalker hordes tried including Fabius Bile in their lists? His buffs work on them too, and strength/toughness/attacks are all good.
Badablack wrote: Has anyone running poxwalker hordes tried including Fabius Bile in their lists? His buffs work on them too, and strength/toughness/attacks are all good.
Wow. That could be pretty nasty. He has no keyword (legion) so any detatchment you include him in will loose the ability to have a chapter trait. However, you could take him with Abaddon and three units of black legion cultists. Cultists would be immune to moral, you get 2 cp from abaddone and you get to reroll all of your hit rolls with your cultists. Meanwhile your pox walkers are all buffed by Fabius bile.
So if you buff a unit of pox walkers RAW new pox walkers would get the buff right?
Badablack wrote: Has anyone running poxwalker hordes tried including Fabius Bile in their lists? His buffs work on them too, and strength/toughness/attacks are all good.
Wow. That could be pretty nasty. He has no keyword (legion) so any detatchment you include him in will loose the ability to have a chapter trait. However, you could take him with Abaddon and three units of black legion cultists. Cultists would be immune to moral, you get 2 cp from abaddone and you get to reroll all of your hit rolls with your cultists. Meanwhile your pox walkers are all buffed by Fabius bile.
So if you buff a unit of pox walkers RAW new pox walkers would get the buff right?
Tomorrow I'm running a list with 80 pox, 40 cultists and 60 plaguebearers for a casual game. I can rearrange my list so I have a detachment with all my cultists and pop bile in there. I'll just surround bile, typhus and necrosius with poxwalkers lol.
EDIT: Thinking about it, I think I'll just run an Alpha legion patrol for the cultists, and bring Fabius as an Aux so I get the sexy -1 mod for stinky fly cultists.
Codex: CSM, page 157 wrote:The inclusion of Fabius Bile or FALLEN units in a Detachment does not prevent other units in that Detachment from gaining a Legion Trait. However, Fabius Bile and the FALLEN units can never themselves benefit from a Legion Trait.
No need to move the Mad Doc Fabius elsewhere.
RAW Inexorable Advance is not a Legion Trait though, but Alpha Legion definitely works.
Eh... I mean, it could be neat, but its a pretty hefty tax; Fabius himself is pretty underwhelming. Also I feel like I'd want the +1T most of the game for the poxes, and even then, they could just focus on other, non-buffed units. Would it be worth it?
Have to say - used foetid bloat drone with mower in a few games and blightlords - feeling quite underwhelmed. The fact that when rocking the spewers on the drone its possible to advance and still shoot (and fallback and shoot) takes the cake.
Was stoked to build some mowers but now more or less going to guzzle all my sprue foetid's into spewers.
Blightlords mobility is just so low that left me disappointed. I fielded one with the flail but honestly the flail felt surprisingly niche (need to get a unit into melee with multiple models etc.). Maybe it was because I was playing against tau / tau shield drones and/or dark reapers.
On the brightside, PBC continues to be a rockstar - lived 2 turns of fusion commander blasphemy and also ate somewhere in the range of 20 dark reaper shots (and chugged out at like 1 wound). Rock on PBC!
I think both mowers and spewers have their place. Mowers have been MVP for vehicle harassment/hunting, and spewers are insanely good at infantry killing. Both are great harassment units due to their durability. I would give mowers another shot or two, the WS4 means a DP or lord nearby is super useful.
Mower drone is basically a 44pt cheaper talons DP.
Drones have +1S over the DP, and +2 attacks with same ap and dmg. You just lose on WS and gain on toughness.
Personally I field Blightlords either with combi-bolters and one flail if they're going for general purpose whacking or combi-meltas if sent after tanks. The flail has put the fear in to my opponent's little IG heart and the terminators invariably draw all the fire he has into them, more often than not taking it in a stride (punisher, demolisher, lascannons, more Catachan flamers than you can count etc.). It's a good psychological tool and if it does hit face then it does bad things to everything lighter than a main battle tank (feels good to crush Kastellan bots, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their datasmiths). Especially when near a Lord or under psychic augmentations.
Haven't yet had too much trouble with their mobility, either. I prefer to either throw them at the important objectives which they'll proceed to take over a few turns, put them near something that doesn't want to move and force the opponent to commit there or risk losing it or thirdly just drop them dead center in front of them. They can take the punishment, let the enemy waste their shots on the toughest nut if they want.
Problem with BLT is that any effective Termy hunting multi Damage weapons, cut through them just as easy. Any BLTs that ive seen (or ive fielded myself) die the next turn theyve been dropped.
I love seeing Terminators in somebodies list. Theyre either slow with TH/SS, or just expensive suicide drops.
In the Adepticon team tournament my team's first game was against a Death Guard team. On my table, our opponents were rocking 3 squads of Blightlords. Let me tell you, the suckers just wouldn't die. We won the game, but I don't think we killed any whole units of those termies. I'm sold on them, especially with good combi-weapons (plasma is good thanks to the 18" rapid fire from Inexorable Advance).
I feel like blights are good for casual play but what do you do against dark reaps that literally one shot your terms? Even putting miasma on them doesn't mean squat. as reaps autohit on 3's always. And for managing target priority terms aren't exactly the cheapest option.... and they don't' see to have enough clear to get through the chaff armies... I love the models though so I'm gonna keep playing em for a bit and see if my luck changes.
This debate with terminators comes up from time to time, and while Blightlords are the best Terminators IMO, they are still just that; terminators. Here are some issues I've found with them:
1. They're expensive - you need to include the points for units that support the BLT's, such as a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (because DG ones can't have jump packs...) or Sorcerers.
2. WS/BS 3 hurts them remaining autonomous - Same with point 1, BS/WS3 on such expensive models really hurts them. So they need a Sorcerer w/ Prescience or a Lord to really negate this weakness.
3. THEY ARE SLOOOOWWWW - soooo slow. 4" move really sucks. A lot of things can play keep away with them.
4. Low number of attacks - 5 models gets a total of 11 attacks, which for a melee-centric unit is hot garbage. The flail is amazing, but when a unit of Assault Marines gets more attacks... this is where WS3 really hurts. I had one unit of BLT's tied up in combat with a SINGLE Carnifex for a whole game, and was left with the flail.
5. Their weapon selection leaves a lot to be desired - the flail is great, and plasma is great.... but even if you give them Axes and with Blades, they still wound most big stuff on a 4+ due to T7 being pretty prevalent on bigger stuff, like big tyranid bugs. I'd love to be able to at least give the Champ a power fist....
This debate with terminators comes up from time to time, and while Blightlords are the best Terminators IMO, they are still just that; terminators. Here are some issues I've found with them:
1. They're expensive - you need to include the points for units that support the BLT's, such as a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (because DG ones can't have jump packs...) or Sorcerers.
2. WS/BS 3 hurts them remaining autonomous - Same with point 1, BS/WS3 on such expensive models really hurts them. So they need a Sorcerer w/ Prescience or a Lord to really negate this weakness.
3. THEY ARE SLOOOOWWWW - soooo slow. 4" move really sucks. A lot of things can play keep away with them.
4. Low number of attacks - 5 models gets a total of 11 attacks, which for a melee-centric unit is hot garbage. The flail is amazing, but when a unit of Assault Marines gets more attacks... this is where WS3 really hurts. I had one unit of BLT's tied up in combat with a SINGLE Carnifex for a whole game, and was left with the flail.
5. Their weapon selection leaves a lot to be desired - the flail is great, and plasma is great.... but even if you give them Axes and with Blades, they still wound most big stuff on a 4+ due to T7 being pretty prevalent on bigger stuff, like big tyranid bugs. I'd love to be able to at least give the Champ a power fist....
4 and 5 are my main problems with them, while I love the hell out of them and run them often, they do have weaknesses. I have fun dropping them in the backfield, but then opponents have just run away! With the damage, they are moderate. Amazing at killing marines, absolutely bonkers at it, but then they fall short. That is where Deathshroud come in, they have absolutely awesome damage. Basically power fists without -1 to hit and reroll wounds. Unfortunately they are also super slow. If Deathshroud could take scythes, or power fists, or anything with more oomph. The points drop on deathshroud is really nice, and only 20pt more than blightlords with the standard loadout. But at the end of the day, they are still SUPER SLOW, and don't have the footprint to force your enemy to deal with them, like a horde of plaguebearers do.
This debate with terminators comes up from time to time, and while Blightlords are the best Terminators IMO, they are still just that; terminators. Here are some issues I've found with them:
1. They're expensive - you need to include the points for units that support the BLT's, such as a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (because DG ones can't have jump packs...) or Sorcerers.
2. WS/BS 3 hurts them remaining autonomous - Same with point 1, BS/WS3 on such expensive models really hurts them. So they need a Sorcerer w/ Prescience or a Lord to really negate this weakness.
3. THEY ARE SLOOOOWWWW - soooo slow. 4" move really sucks. A lot of things can play keep away with them.
4. Low number of attacks - 5 models gets a total of 11 attacks, which for a melee-centric unit is hot garbage. The flail is amazing, but when a unit of Assault Marines gets more attacks... this is where WS3 really hurts. I had one unit of BLT's tied up in combat with a SINGLE Carnifex for a whole game, and was left with the flail.
5. Their weapon selection leaves a lot to be desired - the flail is great, and plasma is great.... but even if you give them Axes and with Blades, they still wound most big stuff on a 4+ due to T7 being pretty prevalent on bigger stuff, like big tyranid bugs. I'd love to be able to at least give the Champ a power fist....
4 and 5 are my main problems with them, while I love the hell out of them and run them often, they do have weaknesses. I have fun dropping them in the backfield, but then opponents have just run away! With the damage, they are moderate. Amazing at killing marines, absolutely bonkers at it, but then they fall short. That is where Deathshroud come in, they have absolutely awesome damage. Basically power fists without -1 to hit and reroll wounds. Unfortunately they are also super slow. If Deathshroud could take scythes, or power fists, or anything with more oomph. The points drop on deathshroud is really nice, and only 20pt more than blightlords with the standard loadout. But at the end of the day, they are still SUPER SLOW, and don't have the footprint to force your enemy to deal with them, like a horde of plaguebearers do.
Bingo. All games i have used them they kill smaller stuff, marines, hordes of boyz, just fine.
When you target them at bigger stuff youd expect terminators to go after.... they fall flat. I hit a tyrant with death hex, and vitalitied/bladed blight lords charged it. After getting into cc, i did a total of 5 wounds after saves (including mortal wounds), including mortal wounds. The tyrant then flew away to pewpew with his devourers; this was two sorcerers supporting them to even make that happen.
Outsider perspective but I hate facing Blightlords. They are survivable as hell, only really outshone by a PBC in that regard. They have an 18” threat radius with double tapping plasma. They disrupt my deployment plans merely by existing. When they finally drop they take the combined shooting and CC ability of the majority of my army to deal with if I want them gone, and I do want them gone because half the time they DS onto an objective. If you DS them near a flying DP then it’s even worse because they freely overcharge and protect the DP from being targeted. Last time I tried to get rid of them it took 2 devastators squads and then 3 rounds of CC with Sanguinary Guard. The game before that it required the same Dev squads and 3 CP on a thunder hammer captain.
Bremon wrote: Outsider perspective but I hate facing Blightlords. They are survivable as hell, only really outshone by a PBC in that regard. They have an 18” threat radius with double tapping plasma. They disrupt my deployment plans merely by existing. When they finally drop they take the combined shooting and CC ability of the majority of my army to deal with if I want them gone, and I do want them gone because half the time they DS onto an objective. If you DS them near a flying DP then it’s even worse because they freely overcharge and protect the DP from being targeted. Last time I tried to get rid of them it took 2 devastators squads and then 3 rounds of CC with Sanguinary Guard. The game before that it required the same Dev squads and 3 CP on a thunder hammer captain.
They can definitely distract, but their damage output is pretty subpar. I'd rather have a Demon Prince over them; hes cheaper, provides psychic powers and defense, has the same amount of wounds, higher str/toughness, and can fly. Blightlords doubletapping 10 plasma shots can be OK, but without assistance, it turns pretty meh. And they aren't as disposable as something like Scions.
I guess my point is, much like anything else in the game, when you compare what they do to other options, they just don't compare as strongly. If they had better CC options, BS/WS 2, or even 1 more attack or wound, they would be a lot stronger overall. I never lost a unit in any game I took them, but for how much of my list that was used to support them I greatly regretted them.
This is where I am coming from too, and honestly you can't run them in bulk with overcharge plasma - they will fry even with rerolls to 1's for a fairly expensive unit - 10 BL with overcharge plasma double tapping is going to be 20 rolls - 1/6 are 1's - lets say 3-4 and then you roll those - there is a fair shot you may get a few more 1's and it is an expensive unit to lose. I feel like you would have to use the standard plasma profile and not the OC (situational of course - if you the opportunity to down a primarch you will probably OC - but to make it very situational neuters also the damage out / threat range of this unit - are you going to OC to kill a PBC or something?
Horses for courses, and all that. I can much more easily dispatch of a Daemon Prince before he has an effect on the game than a tough nut that can deep strike. Obliterators are better, of course, but if you aren’t playing soup, Blightlords can have a fairly notable presence in, and effect on, a game.
Bremon wrote: Horses for courses, and all that. I can much more easily dispatch of a Daemon Prince before he has an effect on the game than a tough nut that can deep strike. Obliterators are better, of course, but if you aren’t playing soup, Blightlords can have a fairly notable presence in, and effect on, a game.
Just depends on what you run. Demon Prince is a force multiplier (reroll 1's, psychic power) on top of being strong himself. If your not able to take out 10 wounds of 2+/4++ T5 models with DR, but can take out a 10 wound 2+/5++ T6 model with DR.... not sure what to tell you; they more or less have the same toughness on paper. The only exception is that anything over 2 wounds can be wasted on the terminators. I will say I bought them and used them in 4 of my first 6 games, and as a new player, maybe I was misusing them; or maybe, like many have said, they are completely underwhelming. I will say I noticed a HUGE uptick in my armies power swapping them out for 2 demon princes and changing the sorcerer's out for more of other stuff.
Your point is well taken, but I play BA, so anything I want to touch them both with is wounding on 2+ in melee, and my heavy weapons are unlikely to be hitting the DP at all. The 4++ puts in work, and I’m far more likely to overkill individual Blightlords vs the DP where there will be no wasted damage.
The reroll aura and cast/deny abilities of the DP are a great strength though.
The tactical value of deep striking 18-20 plasma shots 18" does not compare. With sorc and precience it becomes overcharged with a chaos Lord or more likely a dp they reroll also 1s and dp around to protect them. They serve as enemy heavy pointer killer. And they can be immune to damage as death guard and good melee if need be + dp. Not to mention buffs from pshych and gems. I use 8-9 one group for tour list .
P.s Dp would need to fly over all enemy line to hit a camping arty. I prefer to use my do fly as buffer protector secondly as fly able killer and lastly as sacrificed cow! I play horde lists I got nough expendable bodies!
I w8 pbc to get a nerf before I spend money on a list not doing better than mine just because a tank needs point abjust. But it's easier for most to play 8 tanks 3 dp.
Yoda79 wrote: The tactical value of deep striking 18-20 plasma shots 18" does not compare. With sorc and precience it becomes overcharged with a chaos Lord or more likely a dp they reroll also 1s and dp around to protect them. They serve as enemy heavy pointer killer. And they can be immune to damage as death guard and good melee if need be + dp. Not to mention buffs from pshych and gems. I use 8-9 one group for tour list .
P.s Dp would need to fly over all enemy line to hit a camping arty. I prefer to use my do fly as buffer protector secondly as fly able killer and lastly as sacrificed cow! I play horde lists I got nough expendable bodies!
I w8 pbc to get a nerf before I spend money on a list not doing better than mine just because a tank needs point abjust. But it's easier for most to play 8 tanks 3 dp.
The tactical value isn't understated; Blightlords are good.
Its just... so much more is better. You can take a full 30 Plaguebearers with all the bells if you wanted, for the same cost, and they would be harder to kill, and probably do as much damage in certain scenarios (more if you give them buffs, Scrivener, and a poxbringer), they would deep strike in and annoy. Yes, plasmacide has its place, but why do that when you can take Obliterators who are cheaper and do more damage?
The issue is that what the Blightlords objectively are good at, many units do better, for less points. I don't spam PBC's, but even if they get boosted to even the cost of a Bloat Drone w/ spitters (158 pts) I would STILL take a few because they're amazing, and nothing else can quite do what they do in Death Guard/Nurgle/Chaos (I guess if you wanted to do renegades sure).
I'm not saying you can't take them and have fun. From a competitive standpoint, I'd rather take a lot of other stuff to fill their shoes. However, on occassion, I'll bust 'em out to have a great narrative or fluffy game with a bunch of Plague Marines for fun. Terminators in general are in a bad place, even though they are by far my favorite models to play with.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bremon wrote: Your point is well taken, but I play BA, so anything I want to touch them both with is wounding on 2+ in melee, and my heavy weapons are unlikely to be hitting the DP at all. The 4++ puts in work, and I’m far more likely to overkill individual Blightlords vs the DP where there will be no wasted damage.
The reroll aura and cast/deny abilities of the DP are a great strength though.
Right, so in your specific case its more annoying. But looking at a list building standpoint, I can't justify blightlords say... against Tyranids. They just don't cut it. So I look at options that can be viable no matter what I face; I get there will always be a "rock, paper, scissors" argument to be had, but you try and negate that as much as possible in list building. If Blightlords could operate by themselves with no support AND still be able to do a lot of work, you'd see them more often. I actually would rock some Deathshroud if they were more durable or slightly cheaper; their damage output is insane, while being as tough as blightlords for slightly more.
A) obliterators team up with deamons and competitive wise need to play them in a triple soup demons csm and death guard
B) can end up with one mediocre shooting and die.
C) can only take 3 in a unit so buffs tree / hq aura/ and most important stratagem ony in one unit
D) if I am to take a heavy deamon list with trees buffers etc my list goes for 6-8 pbc and do. Again no need obliterators.
E) in a heavy troop list competitive you LL need slanesh black legion troops. Obliterators need alhpa legion to survive
F) blight lord terminators are death guard and astartes taking up all buffs all stratagems making than death immune.
G) terminators will play cc equally while obliterators are done in cc.
So stating just the above and not to say more about playstyle and lists specifics co-op with cultists and poxalkers bla bla bla I definitely prefer blightlord terminators any day any game competitive wise and that's why they cost more. Especially as anti tank in my horde list are the best possible choise and have never failed me so far. Csm +deathguard list only.
If now I mix demons as well again the combination with demons etc works best with pbc not obliterators. Tree guy etc. Yes you might have a good chance with bell guo obliterators etc but it's scaling in extreme point invest. I play 3 strategies in my lists if not more and only with troops. I don't want to have to depend on guo with bell to revive I don't have to play plagueberers with 2+ hq strategies nor triple soup lists for one combo and subpar.
Your opinion respected but horde lists won last tours. Just a thought.
And to cut it short I LL not add lists with pbc when know it need nerfing. So far my cheap begginer troop lists wins everything it's fun its cheap to make but yes it's hard to play effectively . Sorry it's not moving 8 flamers around dbut when you master it so far seems unbetable with blightlord terminators yes!!
Completely different topic. I just got a Mastodon in, I'm trying to think of some fun things to throw in it. Obviously I wont be running this in tournaments, as objective grabbing when half your list is one model is very difficult.
I'm thinking a blob of 20 marines, 10 cultists (because it eats people) and some supporting characters will be the first run. Either MSU marines for flail/special weapon spam, or a block of 20 CCW marines for grenade/CC punchy fun.
Next is the current topic of terminators. Obviously they can deep strike, so it isn't really needed to get them in the mastodon, but this could get them in double tap melta range, deathshroud into flamer range, and just change up the style of play.
Lastly is 2 hellbrutes or decimators, to take up 20 slots, and then... I dunno, some chaffe for overwatch in cultists, and a few deathshroud.
I own 9 deathshroud and 15 blightlords, and while they are not the most competitive, they are fun. and fun is why I bought the mastodon.
I ran 20 marines, 2 flails, fist, and 14 axe/sword and a fistfull of characters. 2 psykers to give them all the buffs, 1 was warlord for re-roll plague weapons (wow, that trait is super awesome!) Tallyman for cc re-rolls, grenade dude, and foul blightspawn.
I was able to convince another player that it might be fun to fight a Mastodon. He played Custodes. Due to my poor positioning of the mastodon, and his army basically being half characters, I was only able to target 2 units with the grenade strat. so.. like 5 models. However I hurled 30 grenades at one unit, and 56 at the other. I think that is my new favorite thing in the game.
The real hilarity was the 20 plague marines re-rolling all hits and wounds, and mortal wounds on 5s. I think the initial charge CC threw out about 15 mortal wounds across all his units. Super awesome. I'm going to see about modifying my rhino rush list to have a unit of CC plagues in it.
With the new FAQ I think deathshroud are super useless now since you cannot deep strike on turn 1. If you deploy them behind mortarion you are severely gimping your movement with mortarion, and you want him locked in combat.
I guess a lot more people like to play with beta rules than I expected.
Daemon prince is a tough call for me. 2 extra attacks vs a heavy flamer... Heavy flamers are pretty awesome, give the DP some overwatch to help, and because it can fly it would help with positioning to fall back from say, a rhino, then move over near a character and light it up.
buuut 2 attacks with malefic talons is pretty swell too, plus like 9pt cheaper.
Poxwalkers are obliviated.
I don’t know where this came from, haven’t seen poxfarms at the summit of the major tournaments.
Now, apart from just painting dozens of spare poxwalkers, i need not only to spend 2CP per turn, but also pay 6pts for each, aside from cheap proc source (cultists, horrors, etc).
I prefer using pink horrors with split as a reliable buffer for both clod of flies shield and curse of walking pox source.
Not full 30-man horror squad recycled to poxwalkers upped from 690 Points (of which 480 are reinforcement) to 1590 (of which 1380 are reinforcement points).
I really loved my horde of zombies, but their utility severely dropped. And only 6 month ago they ruled out 180 degrees . Sad.
Fan67 wrote: Poxwalkers are obliviated.
I don’t know where this came from, haven’t seen poxfarms at the summit of the major tournaments.
Now, apart from just painting dozens of spare poxwalkers, i need not only to spend 2CP per turn, but also pay 6pts for each, aside from cheap proc source (cultists, horrors, etc).
I prefer using pink horrors with split as a reliable buffer for both clod of flies shield and curse of walking pox source.
Not full 30-man horror squad recycled to poxwalkers upped from 690 Points (of which 480 are reinforcement) to 1590 (of which 1380 are reinforcement points).
I really loved my horde of zombies, but their utility severely dropped. And only 6 month ago they ruled out 180 degrees . Sad.
Are pox walkers also hit by the new rule that you can only ignore a wound once? Or is the FnP buff a re-roll?
Fan67 wrote: Poxwalkers are obliviated.
I don’t know where this came from, haven’t seen poxfarms at the summit of the major tournaments.
Now, apart from just painting dozens of spare poxwalkers, i need not only to spend 2CP per turn, but also pay 6pts for each, aside from cheap proc source (cultists, horrors, etc).
I prefer using pink horrors with split as a reliable buffer for both clod of flies shield and curse of walking pox source.
Not full 30-man horror squad recycled to poxwalkers upped from 690 Points (of which 480 are reinforcement) to 1590 (of which 1380 are reinforcement points).
I really loved my horde of zombies, but their utility severely dropped. And only 6 month ago they ruled out 180 degrees . Sad.
Are pox walkers also hit by the new rule that you can only ignore a wound once? Or is the FnP buff a re-roll?
I don't see how poxes are affected by the FnP - you use DG on the poxes and are allowed to reroll a 1 if by a surgeon etc. You just can't stack multiple renditions of FnP which I am fairly certain poxes can't in anyway in the game right now...
Agree poxes are now obliterated. Although they were one of the ONLY units in the game (outside of chaos boon and some shenanigins) that allow you to reinforce for free. This allows parity, maybe there will be another use for the untargetable strat (such as blight-lord terms, etc.) where it can still be useful. The pox ability just went from a must/autoinclude to a "situational" use.
While I love me some DG and also enjoy poxing it up - you have to admit - playing against it is annoying / frustrating as hell and very one dimensional (kill poxes turn 1 before strat goes off or almost impossible to win). I think everyone can be as annoyed as they like and of course there is likely a better way to nerf them (as opposed to out of contention completely) but sometimes balance is a bitter pill (this is better than every chaos player from here to infinity using infinite pox blobs with 20 CP).
Alright so what are our best builds now? The three datasheets things puts our tank spam off the table and poxwalkers got hit hard. Our terminators also didn't come out looking great.
With the new Rule of 3, all the guys who went out and bought a bunch of Plagueburst Crawlers are going to be pretty salty! Maybe the secondary market will be flooded with them for cheap, though.
POxwalkers are still good; you can regenerate ones that already die, they are fearless, have a ton of attacks. Just bring units of 20 instead of 10. They're just not "auto include" anymore for many people.
Really, Death Guard remains pretty darn good. Blightlords are a lot worse after the FAQ though, they really needed that warptime to get close enough.
Jidmah wrote: It's a bit more difficult to get a warptime sorcerer into a DG army now, if you are willing to count "add two units of cultists" as hard.
Can't you just use Faction Nurgle instead of Chaos within the same detachment? Isn't it exactly the same as using Chaos except you must have the sorc align to nurgle?
3 PBCs is always a solid choice. People are forgetting how awesome Bloat Drones are. Yes, they're not top tier, but they're way more useful than a Hellbrute. Also Poxwalkers still remain a solid choice with Typhus, I'm actually glad they got rid of Poxwalker Farm. I had to face similar lists a few times. I won some and lost some, but it was really boring and stupidly hardcore when in hands of a skilled player
So with the FAQ changes, poxfarm is dead finally? And PBC spam is blocked. What seems to be the go to choices now? I hated both of those builds so I'm glad to see them go, and I hope there will be less mono-build stuff going on.
The deep strike rule doesn't really bother me, I very rarely did deep striking on the first turn. The soup "fix" I think didn't fix anything because it doesn't prevent taking multiple detachments with different factions and using Chaos/Imperium/etc. keywords to make the army Battleforged, but Chaos wouldn't be affected by an army-wide restriction since so many things have <Heretic Astartes> or just mono god.
Hopefully, this means some of our lesser used things will see more play, like Plague Marines themselves (tbh I hate seeing a "Death Guard" army with basically no plague marines), Blightlord Terminators, the Myphitic Blight-Haulers, etc.
Now, with Reinforcement Points being required, it's just another tool in the Toolbox. But at that point I'd just Summon in Plaguebearers instead anyway.
pox farm nerfed obvious change done.
Pbc (and gnerally spammy lists ) obviously fixed.
the issue that i did not see was the first round deep strike.
that ruined both blightlord termies and deathshroud termies.
there is no point having those units at all they loose all their usage. and let me explain. I totally agree giving armies a chance and not get first turn charged . Seems ok to me for some dakka armies and i endorse it but. Listen to this.
deathshroud was suppose to be guardians of Mortarion that is totally negated unless you are willing to hide 470 +180 points for 2 rounds most likely.
blightlords gg. totaly changed. Not only you wont be able to utilize the 18 range plasma no more at least not fast enough so there goes their mediocre punch but also wont be able to get the flies on round since you cant use cloud of flies the round they deeps strike. So all the good things about cloud of flies combo with deep strike etc is gone.
Yes death guard is still good but there are no more combinations to play lots of units.
termies again wasted points better of with obliterators etc that still got some synergy. why would you keep playing dg if poxw gotthe bat badly. when termies got the bat badly same for pbc.
sure viable but somewhat downgraded strategy wise.
sure 3 dp + 3 pbc + 3 drones remain a solid choise but... Demon army with obliteratora flamers etc more synergy. competitive wise .
I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.
This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :
technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?
Commissar_Rex wrote: I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.
This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :
technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?
I doubt it. Plus it just states above the starting model count... so why not just bring 20 and regenerate the ones that die off? Really they did need to patch it, getting 40 new poxwalkers for no reason was bogus.
I'm fine with the change. As it was I had to convince my opponents I didn't have to pay reinforcement points which they were always hesitant to believe. Saves me a discussion and an argument.
I've been using Pox Walkers as a bubble wrap and Deepstrike screen lately anyways, and I'm relieved I no longer have to carry around a whole box of those ugly Warhammer Fantasy Zombies for extra pox walkers.
So I was thinking of running blightlords fully decked out (again... damn i love these models). If we assume 99% of people are going to be trying to pull a brigade or at least 3x battalions (I exaggerate but the CP hype train has arrived full force) - bringing a huge unit reduces the drop count...
Then if we have battalions in a soup setup - say for example surrounded by 30x plaguebearers rocking miasma and with a bilepiper in tow... you could even add to the invul on the plaguebearers during your opponents first shooting to bring them to a whopping - -2 to hit, 4++ 5+++ 4T unit that bolsters on morale rolls of 1 where you can roll 2 dice and consider rerolling one of them...
Proceed to place untargetable strat on blightlords for 3-4 turns at the cost of 1CP and profit - advance and rapid fire plasma for days with a value chaos lord? Even shining spears, dark reapers, tau gunline will probably have a hard time chewing through... Obviously if you go second there is some risk but you will hedge that most of the time you will go first b/c you limited your drops by taking a 600 point blightlord unit - and even if they do the blightlords are reasonably tanky (2+ 4++ 5T with a 5+++) - with no fear of deepstrikers the spacing on the plaguebearers can deny a shining spear charge etc. - all unit that shoot at them will have to be circa 18+ inches away??
I realize this has been done before but I guess with more CP it appears more attractive and potentially more abusable as you don't have to sacrifice all the CP from your army to preserve the blightlords - and also with deepstriking somewhat nerfed it can allow the blightlords to start on the field where you can pop the strat...
Edit: Although in retrospect any army that relies on strats is now not feasible due to dark eldar which will also likely be abused... Will still try it out for fun on the side and see but likely not that good overall qq
dark eldar's stratagem cancel isn't a huge concern for things like that IMO. if they want to trade 3CP to cancel a 1CP sratagem they deserve to fire on your terminators one turn.
I think the increased use of stratagems will be fun, and death guard have some fun uses for them
This will give me two battalions, I just need to figure out how to break out the detachments to optimize the hellbrutes, and dreadnaught. Since there is only 1 chaos lord I need to make the bet of the reroll's to 1's.
Has anyone tried to take this many heavy hitters ?
Wayniac wrote: So with the FAQ changes, poxfarm is dead finally? And PBC spam is blocked. What seems to be the go to choices now? I hated both of those builds so I'm glad to see them go, and I hope there will be less mono-build stuff going on.
The deep strike rule doesn't really bother me, I very rarely did deep striking on the first turn. The soup "fix" I think didn't fix anything because it doesn't prevent taking multiple detachments with different factions and using Chaos/Imperium/etc. keywords to make the army Battleforged, but Chaos wouldn't be affected by an army-wide restriction since so many things have <Heretic Astartes> or just mono god.
Hopefully, this means some of our lesser used things will see more play, like Plague Marines themselves (tbh I hate seeing a "Death Guard" army with basically no plague marines), Blightlord Terminators, the Myphitic Blight-Haulers, etc.
I think Frankie from FLG still plays his 20man melee plague marine bomb, uses the everyone grenades+biologus synergy for infinite mortal wounds. I think he runs it behind morty and nurglings.
Commissar_Rex wrote: I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.
This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :
technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?
I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.
Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote: Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.
Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch
By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.
A bit off Topic, but I figured the DG players here would know:
Just picked up Mortarion, but havent glued his Wings or Scythe on yet. Will Mortarion fit inide a standard (Sabol sized) pluck Foam? Dry fitting, it seems to fit, but anyone have confirmation?
Commissar_Rex wrote: I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.
This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :
technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?
I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.
Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote: Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.
Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch
By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.
Yeah the wording on the spewer is confusing. I'm not sure if its additional, or what it replaces. If we can take a spewer on top of our normal weapons... I'm so gonna pick one for every prince!
Commissar_Rex wrote: I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.
This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :
technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?
I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.
Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote: Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.
Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch
By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.
Yeah the wording on the spewer is confusing. I'm not sure if its additional, or what it replaces. If we can take a spewer on top of our normal weapons... I'm so gonna pick one for every prince!
If you keep the Sword, you get the Spewer, if you want to take something else, you cannot have a Spewer. I see this as an answer to the Sword being the worst weapon when all of them cost the same. The Finecast Nurgle Demon Prince model actually has the weapon on his left arm currently. Look at the the bug's mouth.
Commissar_Rex wrote: I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.
This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :
technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?
I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.
Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dew wrote: Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.
Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch
By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.
Yeah the wording on the spewer is confusing. I'm not sure if its additional, or what it replaces. If we can take a spewer on top of our normal weapons... I'm so gonna pick one for every prince!
If you keep the Sword, you get the Spewer, if you want to take something else, you cannot have a Spewer. I see this as an answer to the Sword being the worst weapon when all of them cost the same. The Finecast Nurgle Demon Prince model actually has the weapon on his left arm currently. Look at the the bug's mouth.
Spoiler:
I mean, I wouldn't argue for it in a friendly game I was just kind of wondering (I swear! ). Technically the strat says it replaces CotWP (not the ability text, which would have meant cotwp remains the name of the new ability) with the following :"...". Of course they wouldn't make a 1CP stratagem capable of creating models that now cost points... Although "Daemonic Incursion" is close to as asinine- why do daemons have a hard counter to GKs? never made sense to me. anyway...
I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DGDP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons
I used the blightlord tact before faq extensively. 9-10 blightlords deep strike behind nurglins early games then behind alpha strike cultists then warped time black legion cultists. Now there is a big issue.
1)470 points for a maybe rapid fire plasma is not superb
2) second round drop again means you won't auto charge and start cc tigh units etc. It's still an 18 inc shooting.
3) the deal was to give cultists or poxwalkers lists a punch. If you start use them 2-3rd round the cost is prohibiting.
4) cloud of flies cannot be used on blightlord termies when they deep strike since you can read the faq saying. Stratagems valid during movement phase can't be done when a unit deep strike since they are dp at end of phase. Double checked!
So I won't invest 500+ points for a maybe 3-4 round form of immunity. You are better off with Marines blight launchers transports and more grenade fluff Marines.
We need a better plan!
Faq wise I see many armies playable faction wise. What would be the problem with an army full of p marines and transports + grenades. 3dp 3 pbc Morty. Atm seems valid and good to me. You can even go extreme with demons and summon. Worked for me.
Question can a tree be summoned from a dp? Can we even summon a tree to bypass the fort. Detachment?
This will give me two battalions, I just need to figure out how to break out the detachments to optimize the hellbrutes, and dreadnaught. Since there is only 1 chaos lord I need to make the bet of the reroll's to 1's.
Has anyone tried to take this many heavy hitters ?
Why not a Myphitic Blight-hauler trilobe instead of the helbrutes? Nice cover aura for your walking friends (poxwalkers will actually get an armor save!), and it'll cut down the # of HS drops too. Plus they're tough and fast
Yoda79 wrote:I used the blightlord tact before faq extensively. 9-10 blightlords deep strike behind nurglins early games then behind alpha strike cultists then warped time black legion cultists. Now there is a big issue.
1)470 points for a maybe rapid fire plasma is not superb
2) second round drop again means you won't auto charge and start cc tigh units etc. It's still an 18 inc shooting.
3) the deal was to give cultists or poxwalkers lists a punch. If you start use them 2-3rd round the cost is prohibiting.
4) cloud of flies cannot be used on blightlord termies when they deep strike since you can read the faq saying. Stratagems valid during movement phase can't be done when a unit deep strike since they are dp at end of phase. Double checked!
So I won't invest 500+ points for a maybe 3-4 round form of immunity. You are better off with Marines blight launchers transports and more grenade fluff Marines.
We need a better plan!
Faq wise I see many armies playable faction wise. What would be the problem with an army full of p marines and transports + grenades. 3dp 3 pbc Morty. Atm seems valid and good to me. You can even go extreme with demons and summon. Worked for me.
Question can a tree be summoned from a dp? Can we even summon a tree to bypass the fort. Detachment?
I think we'll see people shifting toward more survivable units, especially if you want to deepstrike something. I think the list you mentioned is good fun and strong enough. Probably won't win a big tournament, because Morty is the benchmark for damage output in a single turn, but you'll have no problem being competitive enough for your friends
no way to bypass the fortification detachment requirement. They don't have the "Daemonic Ritual" rule, and even horticulous slimux requires you to have a tree in your army before you can go planting them for reserve points.
I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DGDP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons
The prince comes equipped with a sword and claw as a default. You have two options:
a) take a plague spewer.
b) replace sword with second claw or axe.
It's crappy wording but kind of makes sense considering the current direction of reducing options from models. The official model has sword and some kind of flamer contraption, so he doesn't get any other options. The same deal with primaris marines or the new DG characters who come equipped with the stock gear and zero options.
The Forge world Daemon prince is Mammon transfigured and the model matches with the rules in Imperial armory.
no way to bypass the fortification detachment requirement. They don't have the "Daemonic Ritual" rule, and even horticulous slimux requires you to have a tree in your army before you can go planting them for reserve points.
...no he doesn't . Horticulous is the only way to get trees without a fortification detachment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you're reading it how I think your reading it, that's not it.
He makes adds a Feculant Gnarlmaw (the unit) to your army. This unit can only contain one Feculant Gnarlmaw (the model).
The unit can normally have up to 3.
I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DGDP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons
Spoiler:
Honestly, that FW model is kind of out in left field now. As there is no option to get a Talon and a ranged weapon (unless you take the warp bolter option from the index while it lasts). I'd say that the FW version is the better of the two Nurgle options to mod for the dual talons though. One could easily turn that gun into a second group of spikey claws.
Wayniac wrote: So with the FAQ changes, poxfarm is dead finally? And PBC spam is blocked. What seems to be the go to choices now? I hated both of those builds so I'm glad to see them go, and I hope there will be less mono-build stuff going on.
The deep strike rule doesn't really bother me, I very rarely did deep striking on the first turn. The soup "fix" I think didn't fix anything because it doesn't prevent taking multiple detachments with different factions and using Chaos/Imperium/etc. keywords to make the army Battleforged, but Chaos wouldn't be affected by an army-wide restriction since so many things have <Heretic Astartes> or just mono god.
Hopefully, this means some of our lesser used things will see more play, like Plague Marines themselves (tbh I hate seeing a "Death Guard" army with basically no plague marines), Blightlord Terminators, the Myphitic Blight-Haulers, etc.
As I primarily used my Blightlords as a first-turn distraction Carnifex for Mortarion (load up with plasma and deepstrike them, your opponent now has to deal with them or take a lot of damage each turn, shifting attention away from Morty) they're pretty much dead to me. Additional problem is that I really don't see any way to get Mortarion into CC in more or less one piece in a pure DG army when facing a gunline because as far as I know we literally have nothing that can both deal good damage and can get in the opponents' face turn 1 now that you can't deepstrike turn 1 anymore. Leaving Mortarion to face-tank everything your opponent can throw at him for at least 1 turn (2 if you get second turn, in which case you're pretty much guaranteed he won't do anything at all).
edit: Came up with something silly: deploy a Land Raider and 3 Deathshroud next to Morty, then when Mortarion gets to move load up your Deathshroud in the LR and race along with Mortarion so they can join him again when he reaches CC. At least that way they can eat most of the fire coming Mortarions' way if I get second turn and have a chance to be useful later in the game (LR will probably make it's delivery just fine because all incoming fire goes to Mortarion). Pity it costs about 1k points for the complete package but hey, gotta think of something right
I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DGDP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons
Spoiler:
Honestly, that FW model is kind of out in left field now. As there is no option to get a Talon and a ranged weapon (unless you take the warp bolter option from the index while it lasts). I'd say that the FW version is the better of the two Nurgle options to mod for the dual talons though. One could easily turn that gun into a second group of spikey claws.
So I may be a little thick but based upon the wording in the FAQ is it clear whether the spewer replaces the sword or the talons?
Page 70
– Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Wargear Options
Change the first bullet point to read:
‘• This model may either take a plague spewer, or it may
replace its hellforged sword with a daemonic axe or a
second set of malefic talons
And the spewer costs 19 points? So it would be coming at a 9 point premium over the other options?
It is clear - the model comes default with a sword and talon - it then may either TAKE a spewer or it may REPLACE. "Take" is ambiguous (regarding wether or not it means "in addition to" or "instead of"), until the word "replace" is used, which makes the meaning clear.
eohall wrote: It is clear - the model comes default with a sword and talon - it then may either TAKE a spewer or it may REPLACE. "Take" is ambiguous (regarding wether or not it means "in addition to" or "instead of"), until the word "replace" is used, which makes the meaning clear.
Ok so you are saying I can take a spewer, a sword and a talon? Or for example two talons and a spewer?
eohall wrote: It is clear - the model comes default with a sword and talon - it then may either TAKE a spewer or it may REPLACE. "Take" is ambiguous (regarding wether or not it means "in addition to" or "instead of"), until the word "replace" is used, which makes the meaning clear.
This is how it works.
Possible configurations are:
Talon, Sword (0,10) - Base
Talon, Sword, Plague Spewer (0, 10, 19) - take plague spewer
Talon, Axe (0, 10) - replace sword with axe
Talon, Talon (0, 10) - replace sword with second set of talons
Jidmah wrote: I'm wondering if 10x pox walkers is worth the trouble now. If they can't grow above 10, is there really a reason to use them over cultists?
I guess you'd pay the points for the lack of morale and the 5+ fnp.
Jidmah wrote: I'm wondering if 10x pox walkers is worth the trouble now. If they can't grow above 10, is there really a reason to use them over cultists?
I would say no, because they aren't much more survivable in a small group than Cultists, plus a 10 man squad won't hit very hard if they do get somewhere. If someone wants them dead, they will die.
I feel like 20 man squads will be standard now. It takes more focus to take them down, and if even a few survive to hit a chaff unit, or something squishy, they will quickly swell back up. I will be testing 3 squads in my new competitive lists; 2 15 man, and 1 20 man. One 15 man will get Cloud of Flies and act as the "bullet sponge" with Vitality and Typhus buffs, with a second wave being Miasma'd Plaguebearers. Poxwalkers I feel are still really strong, 120 points for 20 models that can come back from the dead is still really damn good. Especially because they are fearless, so even if they act to tie something up til your bigger stuff can get there, its worth it.
Cultists, on the other hand, are cheaper and get to pew-pew. But I don't see their use in DG for two reasons: 1) no way to give them fearless for big blobs, 2) need CSM anyway for Tide of Traitors, so why not just take CSM Slaneesh Cultists?, 3) min units are good to fill a battalion, but their tactical use is limited at best.
I can't help but feel with the recent change to the growing of poxwalkers, the typical 10 man walker unit with a 40 man cultist detachment for tide and dead walk again, made the poxwalkers a lot weaker. Working on a way to keep the army somewhat fluffy, and still not just get wiped from the table.
Currently thinking something like (points may be slightly off, but they are close enough to prove a concept):
For 1500 fun games
Prince with wings and tallons
Typhus
20,20,15 pox
csm with either dual plasma or dual launcher
foul spawn
blightbringer
detachment with a plague caster and 3 drones, possibly 1 with mower.
Then for 2k I could add Mort for more punch, and boost the 15man pox to 20
Issues I see here is that you won't get that large pox blob, so against gunlines, most of the walkers would be dead before they got to do anything, hence the one drone with mower together with the prince to create some space.
5man CSM moves up behind the pox using cloud, mainly to put some shots down range together with the foul spawn.
Strong emphasis on Mortal Wounds from psychic.
Not sure how else to build really. T5 W1 marines are not doing it. Had another idea of using terminators with a LOC to provide a very strong Turn 2 DS together with the prince.
I'd say no need to worry so much. Reading the faq you can understand clealry there are units better than others. That said. As you grow in competitions you should try and make your lists to include some of the army advantages.
1) 3*plague b crawlers. As arty or frontal offensive this tank rocks. Hard to die and good punch. Get 3 use them learn how to play them effectively.
2) 3 demon Prince. Obvious good can team them up can use all flamers and get them buffed with poxbringer etc. Can be warlord with nice options buffing pbc.
3) a big unit of 20 pox retain their potency. In some degree of backfiles last ditch and staying power unit.
4) transports got an upgrade usage after faq. Fluff wise and grenade wise one rhino with 7+++ and biologus bla bla bla is an option for mortals and a good one.
5) mhitic triplet plague marines with cheap advancing blight launchers are a v v good footsloging fluf image.
6) Dearhshroid and Morty are playable but becomes harder and harder as you grow in competitions
It seems like a fairly priced upgrade based off the math presented, so it's gonna be a matter of preference if you want to equip it. Might as well but you're at least not forced into it.
4) transports got an upgrade usage after faq. Fluff wise and grenade wise one rhino with 7+++ and biologus bla bla bla is an option for mortals and a good one.
What models are considered Nurgle Daemons (if any) in a Death Guard Army. Is it enough for a unit to have the Daemon keyword among its keyword or does it need to be in the faction keywords?
I am thinking of using Epidemius.
Kryddbov wrote: What models are considered Nurgle Daemons (if any) in a Death Guard Army. Is it enough for a unit to have the Daemon keyword among its keyword or does it need to be in the faction keywords?
I am thinking of using Epidemius.
I think its enough that the keywords Daemon and Nurgle are present. Does not matter where the keyword is for epidemius to work his magic on it.
The new faq does not affect this I think.
Kryddbov wrote: What models are considered Nurgle Daemons (if any) in a Death Guard Army. Is it enough for a unit to have the Daemon keyword among its keyword or does it need to be in the faction keywords?
I am thinking of using Epidemius.
I think its enough that the keywords Daemon and Nurgle are present. Does not matter where the keyword is for epidemius to work his magic on it.
The new faq does not affect this I think.
Thanks for your quick answer. So I guess this applies to the Feculent Gnarlmaw aswell?
So I could place Mortarion next to one and have him move, advance and charge in the same turn?
Can we now use the demons in the death guard codex as regular unites so that we are still battle forged . I ask this with the new battle brothers rule has been put into effect?
yes because they share the faction keyword 'Nurgle'
even if they didn't you could still include them as reserve points and summon them in (as most people do anyway) as they wont count as any belonging to any detachment. If you run them on foot in a normal detachment under a 'Nurgle' faction that wont be deathguard so you'd loose any DG benefits, but this has always been the case. But say you have a detachment that has DG units that don't get DG benefits then have at it e.g.
Spearhead <Nurgle>
Great unclean one
PB Crawler x3
Nurglings
Some points:
- always double up on bolters on the rhinos
- either have small 3 special weapon squads or go fullout 9-10
- biologus putrifier is a must with a squad of 9 naked (shudder) plague marines for drive by grenade spam
- army needs some chaffe these days (maybe not post faq)
Tactic i normally do is charge the rhinos up fast 12" + d6 and smoke so the enemy is -1 to hit them in their turn.
One massive problem with the style of army is that rhinos are easily popped so you need some threats like preds, defilers etc but even then its a struggle.
Another major issue is the wrap and burn tactic a clever opponent will employ. Basically they'll deep strike or use fast moving stuff to surround a rhino in assault and blow it up in such a way you cannot disembark and the entire unit is slain... you really really have to watch out for this.
What do you target with your PBC's stubbers? When mathhammered they always targets the same thing the mortar and the entropy cannons are shooting, but does that match what you are doing on the table top?
They seem to be much better at shooting infantry than at shooting tanks/monsters, so it feels wrong to waste those four shots on something they are most likely not going to harm.
Latro_ wrote: Thats basically how i have ran mine since 2007.
It works 'ok'
Some points:
- always double up on bolters on the rhinos
- either have small 3 special weapon squads or go fullout 9-10
- biologus putrifier is a must with a squad of 9 naked (shudder) plague marines for drive by grenade spam
- army needs some chaffe these days (maybe not post faq)
Tactic i normally do is charge the rhinos up fast 12" + d6 and smoke so the enemy is -1 to hit them in their turn.
One massive problem with the style of army is that rhinos are easily popped so you need some threats like preds, defilers etc but even then its a struggle.
Another major issue is the wrap and burn tactic a clever opponent will employ. Basically they'll deep strike or use fast moving stuff to surround a rhino in assault and blow it up in such a way you cannot disembark and the entire unit is slain... you really really have to watch out for this.
This is my list if ye interested
[spoiler]Battalion
Malignant Plaguecaster - Garax Blightcaller 110
Corrupted Staff, Bolt Pistol, Blight, Krak
Daemon Prince - Sinpox the Rotbringer 180
Wings, Malefic Claws, Daemonic Axe, WL: Revoltingly Resilent
Supprating Plate
Thank you! This is really helpful!
I don't own a predator or defiler, so I'll run 3 PBC. I don't own plaguebearers or mr.Spoilpox either, but i have a ton of cultists and poxwalkers.
This leaves me 280 points to play with, have you tried a big blob of footslogging PM's with bolters to benefit more from the grenade strat? potentially using the "only target this unit if its the closest unit" stratagem.
I also have 3 foatid bloat drones i can fit into the list.
My poxwalker farm list is nerfed into oblivion.
I am trying to conceive the new list based on the immortality the cloud of flies stratagem provides.
Due to the newly FAQed restriction we cannot use the cloud of flies on the squads same turn they arrive from reserves.
there are currently two candidates for immortality:
-Blightlord Terminators (plasma with Terminator Lord to support)
-Plague Marines (combo with biologus for massive short ranged MW spam)
The source (or the crust) of the immortality now must come in a form of Horrors squad with sufficient (up to 480) reinforcement points and a set of fortifications.
Strangely Blightlords don't occupy more space than an imperial guardsmen, so every fortification with 10 slots and upwards will suffice. Current short lists includes Aquila Strongpoint (which was the centerpiece of my poxwalker farm), Plasma Obliterator (which has adequade firepower to be useful beyond turn 1) and Chaos Bastion (which boasts best survivability for the points invested among fortifications).
The tactics are as follows:
Against shooty opponents you put your terminators in the fortification, then on turn 2 you disembark, advance, activate cloud of flies, surround them with horrors and proceed to move forwards, shooting at 18 inches and soaking damage in the horrors. Chaos Lord provides essential re-rolls of "1" and with Arch-Contaminator assists when terminators finally reach the melee range.
If the deployment has the spearhead you can drop horrors turn 1 and start movement earlier.
The problem is this lists severely suffers from certain long range deployments. And the whole combo costs around 1500 points, providing very humble damage for the investments.
Warptime from allies helps a little, but still this is very-very expensive. Plague marines are move swift, but rely on much more CP to yield damage.
So, any ideas how to implement the "immortal squad" in the new gunline metagame?
Supposedly it works well with the Putrifier, but.... I dunno. Its expensive, clunky, and costs a lot of $$$ if you wanna do all CCW's (or a lot of converting). I'd like to hear if it truly works on the table, but I'm sticking with Pox blobs for my cheap troops that may possibly resurrect themselves
Supposedly it works well with the Putrifier, but.... I dunno. Its expensive, clunky, and costs a lot of $$$ if you wanna do all CCW's (or a lot of converting). I'd like to hear if it truly works on the table, but I'm sticking with Pox blobs for my cheap troops that may possibly resurrect themselves
I guess I'll just have to try it. I think it has some potential with the buffs from arch contaminator, blades of purification, putrescent vitality and the putrifier(wtfGW, find a new word?).
What do you think of this list?
Spoiler:
Double batallion
+ HQ + Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 6. Arch-Contaminator, Daemonic axe, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings
Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts] Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]
Fan67 wrote: My poxwalker farm list is nerfed into oblivion.
I am trying to conceive the new list based on the immortality the cloud of flies stratagem provides.
Due to the newly FAQed restriction we cannot use the cloud of flies on the squads same turn they arrive from reserves.
there are currently two candidates for immortality:
-Blightlord Terminators (plasma with Terminator Lord to support)
-Plague Marines (combo with biologus for massive short ranged MW spam)
The source (or the crust) of the immortality now must come in a form of Horrors squad with sufficient (up to 480) reinforcement points and a set of fortifications.
Strangely Blightlords don't occupy more space than an imperial guardsmen, so every fortification with 10 slots and upwards will suffice. Current short lists includes Aquila Strongpoint (which was the centerpiece of my poxwalker farm), Plasma Obliterator (which has adequade firepower to be useful beyond turn 1) and Chaos Bastion (which boasts best survivability for the points invested among fortifications).
The tactics are as follows:
Against shooty opponents you put your terminators in the fortification, then on turn 2 you disembark, advance, activate cloud of flies, surround them with horrors and proceed to move forwards, shooting at 18 inches and soaking damage in the horrors. Chaos Lord provides essential re-rolls of "1" and with Arch-Contaminator assists when terminators finally reach the melee range.
If the deployment has the spearhead you can drop horrors turn 1 and start movement earlier.
The problem is this lists severely suffers from certain long range deployments. And the whole combo costs around 1500 points, providing very humble damage for the investments.
Warptime from allies helps a little, but still this is very-very expensive. Plague marines are move swift, but rely on much more CP to yield damage.
So, any ideas how to implement the "immortal squad" in the new gunline metagame?
Fairly certain RAW you cannot use cloud of flies on a unit that was embarked at the beginning of the turn - happy to be wrong though.
Fan67 wrote: My poxwalker farm list is nerfed into oblivion.
I am trying to conceive the new list based on the immortality the cloud of flies stratagem provides.
Due to the newly FAQed restriction we cannot use the cloud of flies on the squads same turn they arrive from reserves.
there are currently two candidates for immortality:
-Blightlord Terminators (plasma with Terminator Lord to support)
-Plague Marines (combo with biologus for massive short ranged MW spam)
The source (or the crust) of the immortality now must come in a form of Horrors squad with sufficient (up to 480) reinforcement points and a set of fortifications.
Strangely Blightlords don't occupy more space than an imperial guardsmen, so every fortification with 10 slots and upwards will suffice. Current short lists includes Aquila Strongpoint (which was the centerpiece of my poxwalker farm), Plasma Obliterator (which has adequade firepower to be useful beyond turn 1) and Chaos Bastion (which boasts best survivability for the points invested among fortifications).
The tactics are as follows:
Against shooty opponents you put your terminators in the fortification, then on turn 2 you disembark, advance, activate cloud of flies, surround them with horrors and proceed to move forwards, shooting at 18 inches and soaking damage in the horrors. Chaos Lord provides essential re-rolls of "1" and with Arch-Contaminator assists when terminators finally reach the melee range.
If the deployment has the spearhead you can drop horrors turn 1 and start movement earlier.
The problem is this lists severely suffers from certain long range deployments. And the whole combo costs around 1500 points, providing very humble damage for the investments.
Warptime from allies helps a little, but still this is very-very expensive. Plague marines are move swift, but rely on much more CP to yield damage.
So, any ideas how to implement the "immortal squad" in the new gunline metagame?
Fairly certain RAW you cannot use cloud of flies on a unit that was embarked at the beginning of the turn - happy to be wrong though.
I think you’re wrong. It says you can use it during the movement phase.
. Also it was confirmed by 
.
